The bumblebee flies anyway
August 4, 2021 3:40 PM Subscribe
Take a look at Opener's battery-powered VTOL BlackFly and its simulator.
If classified as an ultralight, no license would be required for operation in the United States.
If classified as an ultralight, no license would be required for operation in the United States.
Pepsi Flew
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:17 PM on August 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:17 PM on August 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
(not complaining about the post, I just couldn't resist the joke)
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:18 PM on August 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:18 PM on August 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
The sound effects are like that scene in a WWII movie when the ground troops can just begin to pick up the drone of the squadron of B-52s heading in their direction.
Not overwhelmingly bad, but it could take some getting used to by the neighbors. There was an actually quite pleasant moment when all the props seemed to hit the same note in the midst of discord, as well.
posted by jamjam at 4:40 PM on August 4, 2021
Not overwhelmingly bad, but it could take some getting used to by the neighbors. There was an actually quite pleasant moment when all the props seemed to hit the same note in the midst of discord, as well.
posted by jamjam at 4:40 PM on August 4, 2021
The geek in me thinks this is very cool. But the pilot in me is thinking about failure modes -- what happens with a loss of power? Both airplanes and helicopters can descend safely to earth if the engine fails; loss of power in this (or any other "powered lift" aircraft) is a bit more concerning.
(I don't mean failure of a motor -- electric motors are very reliable and basically don't fail, and there's enough redundancy with eight motors. I'm thinking of a battery failure.)
posted by phliar at 5:10 PM on August 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
(I don't mean failure of a motor -- electric motors are very reliable and basically don't fail, and there's enough redundancy with eight motors. I'm thinking of a battery failure.)
posted by phliar at 5:10 PM on August 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Ah, wikipedia says there are two batteries per motor, so looks like there's enough redundancy.
(But pilot me is still nervous!)
posted by phliar at 5:15 PM on August 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
(But pilot me is still nervous!)
posted by phliar at 5:15 PM on August 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
The website claims it's got a BRS chute as well. That's nice but it may not be so useful if you're zipping around over Napa County or wherever at a couple hundred feet.
I'd like to know more about rigging and de-rigging. The videos show it coming out of a trailer in maybe three pieces: two wings and the fuselage. It looks like you need two people, which means one person enjoys a nice flight while the other gets to stay on the ground and contemplate the trailer for a while (nb: this is not all that uncommon in recreational aviation, but even so). Anyway, what keeps the fuselage standing up when the wings aren't on yet? Do you need tools to affix the pieces together? How do you make certain that you've rigged correctly?
posted by tss at 5:31 PM on August 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'd like to know more about rigging and de-rigging. The videos show it coming out of a trailer in maybe three pieces: two wings and the fuselage. It looks like you need two people, which means one person enjoys a nice flight while the other gets to stay on the ground and contemplate the trailer for a while (nb: this is not all that uncommon in recreational aviation, but even so). Anyway, what keeps the fuselage standing up when the wings aren't on yet? Do you need tools to affix the pieces together? How do you make certain that you've rigged correctly?
posted by tss at 5:31 PM on August 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
@tss I don't know what you're referring to but this video looks like two people would definitely be needed to assemble/disassemble the plane from the trailer. I guess if you had it permanently at an airport you wouldn't need to do that. Their website touts the cart is able to move around with one person the aforementioned video makes it look like a bit of an unwieldy chore.
Like you said not that uncommon for recreational aviation and I really doubt too many people would truly fly this solo without being at a location with some sort of support staff. The fact that no pilot is needed (though I doubt anyone buying this in its first incarnation would not have a pilot's license), and that there's no complex engineering to require the motors to change position a la the Osprey gives this a huge legup. Everything else I know in the personal aircraft space are basically shrunken down versions of incredibly expensive designs, this is a completely new approach.
posted by geoff. at 5:52 PM on August 4, 2021
Like you said not that uncommon for recreational aviation and I really doubt too many people would truly fly this solo without being at a location with some sort of support staff. The fact that no pilot is needed (though I doubt anyone buying this in its first incarnation would not have a pilot's license), and that there's no complex engineering to require the motors to change position a la the Osprey gives this a huge legup. Everything else I know in the personal aircraft space are basically shrunken down versions of incredibly expensive designs, this is a completely new approach.
posted by geoff. at 5:52 PM on August 4, 2021
I (almost) want to rush out and buy one, however the 200 lb maximum payload is very limiting. Allowing for typical cold weather clothing and accessories, the pilot can't weigh much more than 180 lbs without exceeding the max payload.
No mention of a selling price either!
posted by monotreme at 8:45 PM on August 4, 2021
No mention of a selling price either!
posted by monotreme at 8:45 PM on August 4, 2021
I guess my 197 lb arse gets to fly naked, assuming I could ever come up with the (guessing) 50-100K this is going to cost. Looks like fun, though.
posted by maxwelton at 9:26 PM on August 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by maxwelton at 9:26 PM on August 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Everything else I know in the personal aircraft space are basically shrunken down versions of incredibly expensive designs, this is a completely new approach.
Indeed, it's cool to see incredibly cheap designs scaled up, instead. It looks like really a great answer to the question 'what if quad copter drone, but big enough to carry a person?'
(Along those lines, here's a thing I built in Kerbal Space Program, using a big solar powered quad copter as the first stage for launching a probe into orbit. Why burn all that rocket fuel fighting the lower atmosphere when you can just use the sun to float above the worst of it? It was very, very slow as launches go, but worked...)
posted by kaibutsu at 9:37 PM on August 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
Indeed, it's cool to see incredibly cheap designs scaled up, instead. It looks like really a great answer to the question 'what if quad copter drone, but big enough to carry a person?'
(Along those lines, here's a thing I built in Kerbal Space Program, using a big solar powered quad copter as the first stage for launching a probe into orbit. Why burn all that rocket fuel fighting the lower atmosphere when you can just use the sun to float above the worst of it? It was very, very slow as launches go, but worked...)
posted by kaibutsu at 9:37 PM on August 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
I guess my 197 lb arse gets to fly naked
Every Sunday the Bareback BlackFly Squadron alights in yet another unsullied alpine meadow for hours of unfettered frolicking and merriment.
posted by fairmettle at 4:07 AM on August 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
Every Sunday the Bareback BlackFly Squadron alights in yet another unsullied alpine meadow for hours of unfettered frolicking and merriment.
posted by fairmettle at 4:07 AM on August 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
From the video from the company owner: "VTOL take off and VTOL landing".
The Redundancy Department of Redundant Phrases Department would like to talk to you about the definition of VTOL.
posted by Brockles at 4:49 AM on August 5, 2021 [13 favorites]
The Redundancy Department of Redundant Phrases Department would like to talk to you about the definition of VTOL.
posted by Brockles at 4:49 AM on August 5, 2021 [13 favorites]
That is an interesting aircraft. Being unregulated makes me nervous. I'm imagining people flying low and crashing into telephone lines, houses, maybe decapitating someone on landing.
posted by starfishprime at 4:59 AM on August 5, 2021
posted by starfishprime at 4:59 AM on August 5, 2021
Personally I like the idea of strapping a bunch of lawnmowers to rich people and hurtling them up into the sky.
I am hoping for short battery life.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:15 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I am hoping for short battery life.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:15 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm imagining people flying low and crashing into telephone lines, houses, maybe decapitating someone on landing.
That already happens today with more traditional ultralights (maybe not the decapitations, but...). I almost had a mid-air with a powered parachute last summer because the guy was somewhere he really shouldn't have been, and since it was an ultralight he didn't have radios or a transponder on him.
The pitch angle required to take off and land is something that looks to me like a safety issue. You have no forward visibility in either maneuver - from the clips in the video of the sim they're showing off, you're basically looking straight up at the sky.
posted by backseatpilot at 5:22 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
That already happens today with more traditional ultralights (maybe not the decapitations, but...). I almost had a mid-air with a powered parachute last summer because the guy was somewhere he really shouldn't have been, and since it was an ultralight he didn't have radios or a transponder on him.
The pitch angle required to take off and land is something that looks to me like a safety issue. You have no forward visibility in either maneuver - from the clips in the video of the sim they're showing off, you're basically looking straight up at the sky.
posted by backseatpilot at 5:22 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I have flown some pretty dubious aircraft, and I would not fly this.
Yeah, it has redundancy to cope with any single lost prop, motor or battery - if all the rest of the electronics keep actively doing everything right. But any malfunction or compound failure is catastrophic. They claim it can glide down, but even that relies on computer control. The wing configuration isn't aerodynamically stable, so you can't fly it manually. Even a helicopter can be landed safely with total power failure.
I've spent most of my career designing and building electronics, including debugging all the weird failures that happen in the field. The number of things that can go wrong is insane.
And I did a couple of years messing with heavy-duty multicopters. They were fun to play with, and they're great for unmanned operations in certain scenarios.
But we crashed a shitload of them, despite just as much redundancy as this thing has.
I will never, ever get in one.
posted by automatronic at 6:54 AM on August 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
Yeah, it has redundancy to cope with any single lost prop, motor or battery - if all the rest of the electronics keep actively doing everything right. But any malfunction or compound failure is catastrophic. They claim it can glide down, but even that relies on computer control. The wing configuration isn't aerodynamically stable, so you can't fly it manually. Even a helicopter can be landed safely with total power failure.
I've spent most of my career designing and building electronics, including debugging all the weird failures that happen in the field. The number of things that can go wrong is insane.
And I did a couple of years messing with heavy-duty multicopters. They were fun to play with, and they're great for unmanned operations in certain scenarios.
But we crashed a shitload of them, despite just as much redundancy as this thing has.
I will never, ever get in one.
posted by automatronic at 6:54 AM on August 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
I'm imagining rich&foolish selfie-takers running out of juice at altitude, and dropping out of sky.
posted by Rash at 8:03 AM on August 5, 2021
posted by Rash at 8:03 AM on August 5, 2021
Having done drone work for the past few years, I wonder if , a strictly passenger drone might not be the best answer for use cases like this? IOW, the passenger directs flight, perhaps even with some real-time components, but piloting is done entirely by the craft itself, respecting exclusion zones, height ceilings, range limits and, of course safe flying character.
The Black Fly appears to be some sort of hybrid pilot/fly-by wire experience: "Flight stability is software-controlled, with modes for cruise-control, "return-home," auto-land and geo-fencing." You wouldn't want "modes" for geo-fencing for example. That would always be on to keep people out of airports or utility corridors (like pipelines and high voltage lines) or city cores.
A magic carpet experience that you point and say "let's go there!" and it does safely and respecting flight restrictions, rather than having semi-skilled novices manipulating the flight surfaces.
posted by bonehead at 8:16 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
The Black Fly appears to be some sort of hybrid pilot/fly-by wire experience: "Flight stability is software-controlled, with modes for cruise-control, "return-home," auto-land and geo-fencing." You wouldn't want "modes" for geo-fencing for example. That would always be on to keep people out of airports or utility corridors (like pipelines and high voltage lines) or city cores.
A magic carpet experience that you point and say "let's go there!" and it does safely and respecting flight restrictions, rather than having semi-skilled novices manipulating the flight surfaces.
posted by bonehead at 8:16 AM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Another pilot here, another big nope, for all the reasons posted above by other pilots - a low-altitude failure of almost any kind would be catastrophic. Plus there's no way I'd share airspace with someone flying one of these without a license.
posted by bassomatic at 9:28 AM on August 5, 2021
posted by bassomatic at 9:28 AM on August 5, 2021
The sound effects are like that scene in a WWII movie when the ground troops can just begin to pick up the drone of the squadron of B-52s heading in their direction.
I recall no B-52s in The Final Countdown.
posted by y2karl at 10:50 AM on August 5, 2021
I recall no B-52s in The Final Countdown.
posted by y2karl at 10:50 AM on August 5, 2021
The other thing that comes to mind when the topic of flying cars arises: household collision insurance. Who could afford that?
posted by y2karl at 10:56 AM on August 5, 2021
posted by y2karl at 10:56 AM on August 5, 2021
I looked at the web site at https://www.opener.aero/ and scrolled to the end, which is headed "A Complete Solution." I thought "solution to what?"
The thing has a range of 25 miles. After which it requires a 7.5 hour recharge, without access to a special power circuit. It is good for a joyride or two a day. Or one an hour, if you can dedicate 2x50A/240V circuits to recharging it.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 12:10 PM on August 5, 2021
The thing has a range of 25 miles. After which it requires a 7.5 hour recharge, without access to a special power circuit. It is good for a joyride or two a day. Or one an hour, if you can dedicate 2x50A/240V circuits to recharging it.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 12:10 PM on August 5, 2021
Also what all the pilots are saying. One big reason flying cars never "took off" is that a road car, if it breaks, pulls off the road and you're late for an appointment or something (probably). A flying car, on the other hand, falls out of the sky and kills you along with maybe some other people. The reliability of flight-rated vehicles is enormously higher than that of probably any consumer item. That comes with a cost, high enough to exclude mass casual private aviation.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 12:16 PM on August 5, 2021
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 12:16 PM on August 5, 2021
these will be the next disruptive transportation device to be strewn around our urban sidewalks
or
"move fast. crash into buildings."
posted by glonous keming at 12:16 PM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
or
"move fast. crash into buildings."
posted by glonous keming at 12:16 PM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
The pitch angle required to take off and land is something that looks to me like a safety issue. You have no forward visibility in either maneuver - from the clips in the video of the sim they're showing off, you're basically looking straight up at the sky.
Yeah, there have been a few worse designs in that regard, but it's a pretty short list.
posted by automatronic at 12:31 PM on August 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yeah, there have been a few worse designs in that regard, but it's a pretty short list.
posted by automatronic at 12:31 PM on August 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Whenever flying cars start to sound like a good idea, remember how bad humans are at safely piloting vehicles in two dimensions.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:53 PM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:53 PM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
The planes of Leng
posted by librosegretti at 1:16 PM on August 5, 2021
posted by librosegretti at 1:16 PM on August 5, 2021
I am guessing 100K just because that is the equivalent for the far side of the middle glass of my 20K. It is kind of neat and all but it pushes my irk buttons starting with the name "Opener" and "Black Fly." I have always noticed different enthusiasms resulting in aviation. For some it is just the magic of flying, if you cannot fly upside down what is the point? For some it is a kind of sky yacht invidious comparison device. Others the mastery of a technical and jargon laden activity. Still others seem fascinated by the automation and avionics. This little craft seems inherently unsafe but made safe by a skein of electronics and computation. I don't think I would want a ride in one of these as I am not convinced that that skein is thick enough and I don't want to die or be maimed because I didn't download the last update.
I wish we could ban flying taxi's and Amazon drones pre-emptively as by the time they get going I fear it will be too late despite the fact that it will then be obvious how dystopic having so many buzzing rotors overhead is going to be. Reminds me of the 20th century enthusiasm for roads, autos, and car based suburban sprawl.
posted by Pembquist at 1:27 PM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I wish we could ban flying taxi's and Amazon drones pre-emptively as by the time they get going I fear it will be too late despite the fact that it will then be obvious how dystopic having so many buzzing rotors overhead is going to be. Reminds me of the 20th century enthusiasm for roads, autos, and car based suburban sprawl.
posted by Pembquist at 1:27 PM on August 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I wish we could ban ... Amazon drones pre-emptively
I'm not condoning violence or destruction of property, but knowing (American, at least) human nature I'd be surprised if there isn't a lot of individual vigilante-type takedowns of unmanned (un-personned?) drones if they start showing up everywhere.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:51 PM on August 5, 2021
I'm not condoning violence or destruction of property, but knowing (American, at least) human nature I'd be surprised if there isn't a lot of individual vigilante-type takedowns of unmanned (un-personned?) drones if they start showing up everywhere.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:51 PM on August 5, 2021
. After which it requires a 7.5 hour recharge, without access to a special power circuit. It is good for a joyride or two a day. Or one an hour, if you can dedicate 2x50A/240V circuits to recharging it.
Can't imagine any who can afford one of these things balking at the installation of a couple 50a circuits. Lots of gridlocky commutes are less than 25 miles.
posted by Mitheral at 7:34 PM on August 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Can't imagine any who can afford one of these things balking at the installation of a couple 50a circuits. Lots of gridlocky commutes are less than 25 miles.
posted by Mitheral at 7:34 PM on August 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
I can see potential uses in farming and the like in big rural spaces but this is unlikely as autonomous cars in terms of revolutionising personal transport.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 4:04 AM on August 6, 2021
posted by GallonOfAlan at 4:04 AM on August 6, 2021
household collision insurance.
Aviation insurance is a weird world. This thing is likely uninsurable in today's market. At any rate, we as pilots and aircraft owners don't carry "collision insurance," instead there's usually a blanket liability policy that covers a combination of the aircraft and pilot.
I honestly would not worry about one of these things destroying homes anytime soon. It's a toy, albeit an expensive one. It's going to be flown out of ultralight parks, not normal airports, and out in rural locations. It's not going to be "used" for anything more than joyriding.
It's not uncommon for manufacturers like this to start in a smaller, less regulated space and slowly build the design and the business to get to a certified product. But this isn't in any way close to a thing that is going to touch down in front of your house and take you to dinner.
posted by backseatpilot at 7:01 AM on August 6, 2021
Aviation insurance is a weird world. This thing is likely uninsurable in today's market. At any rate, we as pilots and aircraft owners don't carry "collision insurance," instead there's usually a blanket liability policy that covers a combination of the aircraft and pilot.
I honestly would not worry about one of these things destroying homes anytime soon. It's a toy, albeit an expensive one. It's going to be flown out of ultralight parks, not normal airports, and out in rural locations. It's not going to be "used" for anything more than joyriding.
It's not uncommon for manufacturers like this to start in a smaller, less regulated space and slowly build the design and the business to get to a certified product. But this isn't in any way close to a thing that is going to touch down in front of your house and take you to dinner.
posted by backseatpilot at 7:01 AM on August 6, 2021
Even a helicopter can be landed safely with total power failure.
Isn't autorotation sort of a "works theoretically" kind of thing though?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:43 PM on August 6, 2021
Isn't autorotation sort of a "works theoretically" kind of thing though?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:43 PM on August 6, 2021
Isn't autorotation sort of a "works theoretically" kind of thing though?
No. It is a 'thing you do in an engine failure' as lots of youtube videos will show you.
posted by Brockles at 2:57 PM on August 6, 2021
No. It is a 'thing you do in an engine failure' as lots of youtube videos will show you.
posted by Brockles at 2:57 PM on August 6, 2021
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It also seems like ultralight has a significant loophole of assuming a gasoline powered engine, with restrictions to only 5 gallons. I'm guessing that'll be patched back up but I hope the FAA lets this flourish as a potential car replacement. Would be great if I could press an Uber-like button and have a personal helicopter plot down in front of my house. I see that definitely as a better alternative than owning one. I also love that it opens up the possibility that we don't have to live next to a highway if we can't afford or don't want to live in an urban area.
posted by geoff. at 4:02 PM on August 4, 2021 [2 favorites]