Meta couldn't save Face(book)
February 5, 2022 6:40 AM Subscribe
Facebook just had its worst day ever on Wall Street (NPR). Mark Zuckerberg lost $31 billion (CNN). The top-performing link posts by U.S. Facebook pages in the last 24 hours (Twitter).
Never get high on your own supply.
Especially when that supply is fake.
If large institutional investors were actually rational about this, Facebook would be losing large chunks of stock value daily after that level of empty-suit "direction" from Zuckerberg.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:51 AM on February 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
Especially when that supply is fake.
If large institutional investors were actually rational about this, Facebook would be losing large chunks of stock value daily after that level of empty-suit "direction" from Zuckerberg.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:51 AM on February 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
Sad to think this isn't investors disavowing Meta on ethical or moral grounds, but that they can no longer monetize an abusive echo chamber.
posted by nickggully at 6:53 AM on February 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by nickggully at 6:53 AM on February 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
I'm really surprised that Facebook has only lost users in the last quarter. The only reason I log in at all is that I admin a group for the local neighborhood and need to delete any spam every few days. When I bother to look around, the place seems like a ghost-town.
posted by octothorpe at 6:53 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 6:53 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
His red, teary eyes were the result of a scratched cornea, the Facebook founder said Thursdayi'm not crying, you're crying
posted by flabdablet at 6:56 AM on February 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
Who’s Afraid of the IRS? Not Facebook.
Like its Big Tech peers, Facebook wasn’t much afraid of the IRS. But, as it happened, the same year that Facebook started moving profits to Ireland, the IRS launched a team to crack down on deals like that. The effort started aggressively. As we recently reported, the IRS threw everything it had at Microsoft in the largest audit in the agency’s history.
But shortly after the IRS showed this new ambition, Republicans in Congress, after taking the House in 2010, began forcing cuts to the IRS’ budget. Over the years, as Facebook grew into one of the world’s largest companies, with 2 billion users, the IRS was shrinking. By the time the IRS finally took on Facebook over its Irish deal a few years later, the agency was in over its head.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:01 AM on February 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
Like its Big Tech peers, Facebook wasn’t much afraid of the IRS. But, as it happened, the same year that Facebook started moving profits to Ireland, the IRS launched a team to crack down on deals like that. The effort started aggressively. As we recently reported, the IRS threw everything it had at Microsoft in the largest audit in the agency’s history.
But shortly after the IRS showed this new ambition, Republicans in Congress, after taking the House in 2010, began forcing cuts to the IRS’ budget. Over the years, as Facebook grew into one of the world’s largest companies, with 2 billion users, the IRS was shrinking. By the time the IRS finally took on Facebook over its Irish deal a few years later, the agency was in over its head.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:01 AM on February 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
When I bother to look around, the place seems like a ghost-town.
Invite Ben Shapiro and Dan Bongino to your neighborhood town hall. Traffic will pick up.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:05 AM on February 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Invite Ben Shapiro and Dan Bongino to your neighborhood town hall. Traffic will pick up.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:05 AM on February 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Meta might recover or this might be a long slide
Remember Myspace?
posted by valkane at 7:10 AM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Remember Myspace?
posted by valkane at 7:10 AM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Apple recently changed its privacy settings on iPhones, making it harder for Meta to sell targeted ads. Meta said that could cost it $10 billion in lost sales this year.
Thank you, Apple?
posted by Monochrome at 7:24 AM on February 5, 2022 [23 favorites]
Thank you, Apple?
posted by Monochrome at 7:24 AM on February 5, 2022 [23 favorites]
Fleeting fleecing billious billion bullion.
posted by whatevernot at 7:42 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by whatevernot at 7:42 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm really surprised that Facebook has only lost users in the last quarter
Facebook has 3 billion users and there are only 5 billion internet users total. While it would seem there is room to grow there are places like China, with 1.1 billion WeChat users, that Facebook is having trouble penetrating.
The truth is that they’re running out of potential customers. In fact I interviewed there a few years ago for a project that was a straight telecom play for expanding the internet in the Third World. They were considering making a significant infrastructure investment just to create new customers for themselves.
It seems like the expansion party is coming to an end for Facebook. Their revenue growth can no longer be driven by new users and in fact since the only direction their user count can go is down they can only look to revenue shrinkage from that department.
That doesn’t mean the company is going out of business or won’t have considerable revenue for some time to come, but it does mean they will be replaced on the Wall Street darling list by a younger company with a lot more growth potential. What Wall Street giveth, Wall Street taketh away.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:49 AM on February 5, 2022 [27 favorites]
Facebook has 3 billion users and there are only 5 billion internet users total. While it would seem there is room to grow there are places like China, with 1.1 billion WeChat users, that Facebook is having trouble penetrating.
The truth is that they’re running out of potential customers. In fact I interviewed there a few years ago for a project that was a straight telecom play for expanding the internet in the Third World. They were considering making a significant infrastructure investment just to create new customers for themselves.
It seems like the expansion party is coming to an end for Facebook. Their revenue growth can no longer be driven by new users and in fact since the only direction their user count can go is down they can only look to revenue shrinkage from that department.
That doesn’t mean the company is going out of business or won’t have considerable revenue for some time to come, but it does mean they will be replaced on the Wall Street darling list by a younger company with a lot more growth potential. What Wall Street giveth, Wall Street taketh away.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:49 AM on February 5, 2022 [27 favorites]
I don’t think I’ve read a good article about the meta/FB user shrink yet; I’ve seen a lot of schadenfreude and some extremely funny tweets, but nothing that really contextualises it. FB seems so unloved that people are just happy to pass around the same collection of extremely thin stories that say very little more than “zuck lost money”.
posted by The River Ivel at 7:50 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 7:50 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I don’t think I’ve read a good article about the meta/FB user shrink yet
I’m sure that people have been quitting Facebook all along, but their numbers have been outweighed by new people coming in. With the number of new users dropping, the mask has come off and we can see the shrinkage part for the first time.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:58 AM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I’m sure that people have been quitting Facebook all along, but their numbers have been outweighed by new people coming in. With the number of new users dropping, the mask has come off and we can see the shrinkage part for the first time.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:58 AM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm really surprised that Facebook has only lost users in the last quarter.
I'm guessing you don't spend a lot of time in developing nations. Facebook has a stranglehold on most of those places with locals literally using the words internet and Facebook interchangeably. When I lived in Vanuatu for a few months pre-lockdown, it was nigh-impossible to communicate with anyone without using a Meta-owned service. Many people even use the words Text and Facebook interchangably. You'd tell them to text you and they'd say they can't find you on FB (because you don't use it). If you text them, they try to answer on FB or WA because there's no charge.
I used WhatsApp begrudgingly while there but refused to use FB proper. Now that I'm away and no longer have WhatsApp I've completely lost touch with those people. Before leaving WhatsApp I messaged everyone to tell them I was leaving and could be found on Signal or Telegram and as far as I can make out, not a single one of them has signed up for those services and it's now been two years. Sure... possible they all secretly hated me but I'm hoping that's not the case.
I experienced a similar thing while living in the Dominican Republic. Local TelCo companies charge high rates for texts so everyone just uses whatever is free and WhatsApp and Facebook were there first so everyone has them.
posted by dobbs at 8:11 AM on February 5, 2022 [36 favorites]
I'm guessing you don't spend a lot of time in developing nations. Facebook has a stranglehold on most of those places with locals literally using the words internet and Facebook interchangeably. When I lived in Vanuatu for a few months pre-lockdown, it was nigh-impossible to communicate with anyone without using a Meta-owned service. Many people even use the words Text and Facebook interchangably. You'd tell them to text you and they'd say they can't find you on FB (because you don't use it). If you text them, they try to answer on FB or WA because there's no charge.
I used WhatsApp begrudgingly while there but refused to use FB proper. Now that I'm away and no longer have WhatsApp I've completely lost touch with those people. Before leaving WhatsApp I messaged everyone to tell them I was leaving and could be found on Signal or Telegram and as far as I can make out, not a single one of them has signed up for those services and it's now been two years. Sure... possible they all secretly hated me but I'm hoping that's not the case.
I experienced a similar thing while living in the Dominican Republic. Local TelCo companies charge high rates for texts so everyone just uses whatever is free and WhatsApp and Facebook were there first so everyone has them.
posted by dobbs at 8:11 AM on February 5, 2022 [36 favorites]
It's such vast gobs of cash that I can't grasp it, but he's still a multi-billionaire of a company with no ethics. In the US, capitalism has to be extreme, massive profit. There's a big market share for a social media platform where end users could have some control, advertisers could be treated honestly, unethical ads refused, data kept at least somewhat private. I would not be sad to see him broke and the company in smoldering ruins. Not holding my breath. Ruthless pursuit of winning is an effective strategy.
posted by theora55 at 8:31 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 8:31 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just the other day the New York Times had a whole article baffled by why Americans (unlike other peoples) don't use WhatsApp for everything, because it supports bigger pictures than SMS does. Other alternatives like Signal do appear but get much less focus than WhatsApp.
posted by one for the books at 8:43 AM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by one for the books at 8:43 AM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Facebook has 3 billion users
There is a massive difference between 3 billion accounts and 3 billion users. Don't fall into the trap on conflating the two.
posted by Sphinx at 9:24 AM on February 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
There is a massive difference between 3 billion accounts and 3 billion users. Don't fall into the trap on conflating the two.
posted by Sphinx at 9:24 AM on February 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
Given FB’s inability to control what’s on their site, how soon will it just be companies paying for ads shown to just bots talking to each other? Accounts - Users not necessarily equal to people.
posted by njohnson23 at 9:28 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 9:28 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Remember Myspace?
Heck, remember Friendster? That was the first "social media" invitation* I ever received, from a friend in LA who wanted me to be on this cool thing all her friends were into, not long before it was devoured by the slightly-younger upstart MySpace (later, Myspace). And then, The Facebook devoured MySpace. Now, TikTok is chomping on Meta. So it goes.
* - I remember being baffled, just so confused: what is this? an address book? a big chat room? I don't understand. Why does it need to know all this stuff about me? Why do all these people want to know stuff about me? Why am I supposed to spend all this time and energy documenting and archiving my actual life for people I don't actually interact with? I DON'T UNDERSTAND and I don't trust this at all.... And then I started to get it, found the fun and utility of social media, rode the wave for a while.... And now, thankfully, back to where I was in 2003: what is this? why am I telling a corporation all this? why am I expected to create and maintain a curated, online self? Being an actual person is hard enough, damn.
posted by LooseFilter at 9:45 AM on February 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
Heck, remember Friendster? That was the first "social media" invitation* I ever received, from a friend in LA who wanted me to be on this cool thing all her friends were into, not long before it was devoured by the slightly-younger upstart MySpace (later, Myspace). And then, The Facebook devoured MySpace. Now, TikTok is chomping on Meta. So it goes.
* - I remember being baffled, just so confused: what is this? an address book? a big chat room? I don't understand. Why does it need to know all this stuff about me? Why do all these people want to know stuff about me? Why am I supposed to spend all this time and energy documenting and archiving my actual life for people I don't actually interact with? I DON'T UNDERSTAND and I don't trust this at all.... And then I started to get it, found the fun and utility of social media, rode the wave for a while.... And now, thankfully, back to where I was in 2003: what is this? why am I telling a corporation all this? why am I expected to create and maintain a curated, online self? Being an actual person is hard enough, damn.
posted by LooseFilter at 9:45 AM on February 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
I kinda assume FB has been losing more valuable developing country users for a while, and picking up developing world users has masked that. Looking at the impact of the iOS change, it implies that there is a lot of revenue to be lost from less efficient targeting of a wealthy slice of their users. I would imagine a billion or more of their users aren’t making them any money at all.
posted by snofoam at 10:00 AM on February 5, 2022
posted by snofoam at 10:00 AM on February 5, 2022
For a long time I thought that FB would remain invincible. The premise is that while there would be new social media, FB is one of a handful of companies that really knows how to effectively monetize the data / experience of social media. They are just phenomenally more successful at turning users into cash than anyone else. That means that they will always be able to pay more for new social media networks and make money than their competitors. New social media companies will struggle to reach profitability without the monetization expertise, and none will hold out in the face of a huge payout. For example, microsoft could have paid the same amount for Instagram, but they never would have been able to achieve return on investment. Google is the only one in even the same order of magnitude for the monetization infrastructure. Even Twitter is a factor of 20 lower in revenue.
The things that changed are (1) some, barely perceptible, willingness for regulators to not allow indefinite consolidation in this industry. I don't know that this will hold out if the alternative is TikTok. (2) TikTok. China is willing to protect the development of social media companies without foreign competition, allowing them to get into a position where they can actually compete. TikTok and youtube are the only serious competitors with FB for revenue. (3) Data privacy laws and customs may eventually reduce the value of tracking generally. This is more a problem for FB which relies (or maybe just historically relied) on the ability to track mobile and internet activity off-app.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 10:14 AM on February 5, 2022
The things that changed are (1) some, barely perceptible, willingness for regulators to not allow indefinite consolidation in this industry. I don't know that this will hold out if the alternative is TikTok. (2) TikTok. China is willing to protect the development of social media companies without foreign competition, allowing them to get into a position where they can actually compete. TikTok and youtube are the only serious competitors with FB for revenue. (3) Data privacy laws and customs may eventually reduce the value of tracking generally. This is more a problem for FB which relies (or maybe just historically relied) on the ability to track mobile and internet activity off-app.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 10:14 AM on February 5, 2022
> There is a massive difference between 3 billion accounts and 3 billion users.
Not just fake accounts, but semi-abandoned ones. I'd guess half my my FB friends list isn't really on there any more, or just pops their head in a few times a year.
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:24 AM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Not just fake accounts, but semi-abandoned ones. I'd guess half my my FB friends list isn't really on there any more, or just pops their head in a few times a year.
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:24 AM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
how soon will it just be companies paying for ads shown to just bots talking to each other?
I thought this was 2017
posted by eustatic at 10:46 AM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I thought this was 2017
posted by eustatic at 10:46 AM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah, check out Usenet sometime, which still exists.
posted by Melismata at 11:01 AM on February 5, 2022
posted by Melismata at 11:01 AM on February 5, 2022
I got the most sweaty, desperate email from someone recruiting software engineers at Facebook yesterday. I kept rereading it and just bursting out laughing. Usually those emails act like you should be flattered by their attention even if that's transparently not the case but this one didn't even try. Just a total "hey, long shot but is there a snowball's chance in hell you'd take my call right now?" email.
My husband was like "dude I hear they're offering mid six figure signing bonuses...maybe just jump over there for a couple months, take the cash and buy the dip on your equity grant, stay to hit your first vest date then bounce again?" I have to admit I thought about it! I could grit my teeth for just long enough to take a few hundred thousand bucks out their pockets and just leave it off my resume and not even tell anyone I was doing it?? I know someone working there in a capacity that actively costs them money, and I bet he'd hire me no questions asked if I reached out next week.
I'm probably too lazy and risk averse to execute this strategy but there are DEFINITELY software engineers with dollar signs in their eyes right now thinking there's never been a better time to join FB, get that money, and contribute nothing of value. And everyone there knows it.
HAHAHAHA I cannot stop laughing about it. I feel bad feeling so good about this but oh my GOD it could not have happened to a nicer company.
posted by potrzebie at 11:48 AM on February 5, 2022 [23 favorites]
My husband was like "dude I hear they're offering mid six figure signing bonuses...maybe just jump over there for a couple months, take the cash and buy the dip on your equity grant, stay to hit your first vest date then bounce again?" I have to admit I thought about it! I could grit my teeth for just long enough to take a few hundred thousand bucks out their pockets and just leave it off my resume and not even tell anyone I was doing it?? I know someone working there in a capacity that actively costs them money, and I bet he'd hire me no questions asked if I reached out next week.
I'm probably too lazy and risk averse to execute this strategy but there are DEFINITELY software engineers with dollar signs in their eyes right now thinking there's never been a better time to join FB, get that money, and contribute nothing of value. And everyone there knows it.
HAHAHAHA I cannot stop laughing about it. I feel bad feeling so good about this but oh my GOD it could not have happened to a nicer company.
posted by potrzebie at 11:48 AM on February 5, 2022 [23 favorites]
Potzrebie, there’s usually a string attached to the sign in bonus like staying x years. But if you go through the process and discover there none… come back and let us know !!
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:54 AM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:54 AM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think they can't possibly require people to stay over a year to keep the signing bonus. But yeah, could be a loooong fkn year.
As I said, I am probably not actually going to explore this option... But if I were 27, single, and still living with my parents and thinking maybe I could make a down payment on a house (or hell, an entire house for cash outside California) by putting in a terrible year or two at FB doing just barely enough not to get canned?? Mighty tempting.
posted by potrzebie at 12:03 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
As I said, I am probably not actually going to explore this option... But if I were 27, single, and still living with my parents and thinking maybe I could make a down payment on a house (or hell, an entire house for cash outside California) by putting in a terrible year or two at FB doing just barely enough not to get canned?? Mighty tempting.
posted by potrzebie at 12:03 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have a friend who works high up at a development company and Facebook is one of their clients and he tells me the vast majority of new interviewees specifically say in the interview that they refuse to work on FB projects and they want to make that clear before going forward. He says Gen Z absolutely hates FB as a company.
posted by dobbs at 12:07 PM on February 5, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by dobbs at 12:07 PM on February 5, 2022 [12 favorites]
the vast majority of new interviewees specifically say in the interview that they refuse to work on FB projects
There's certainly a social stigma attached to working at Facebook in the SF bay area. I mean you meet a lot of people who work in software here, but FB employees are the only ones who constantly demur about their jobs when you ask them what they do. "They're evil but I have student loans to pay." "I'm just doing it until I get recruited elsewhere" "I don't even use the product myself" etc etc.
I worked as a vendor on a non-tech gig that was for Facebook (around the time the whistleblower was in front of Congress), and all the FB employees on site for the job spent the entire time talking shit about Facebook and how terrible and toxic the company and it's product is.
I remember when I visited the FB offices for gigs a decade+ ago my colleagues would always joke that it was like a cult where everyone drank the koolaid. Not anymore.
posted by bradbane at 12:32 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
There's certainly a social stigma attached to working at Facebook in the SF bay area. I mean you meet a lot of people who work in software here, but FB employees are the only ones who constantly demur about their jobs when you ask them what they do. "They're evil but I have student loans to pay." "I'm just doing it until I get recruited elsewhere" "I don't even use the product myself" etc etc.
I worked as a vendor on a non-tech gig that was for Facebook (around the time the whistleblower was in front of Congress), and all the FB employees on site for the job spent the entire time talking shit about Facebook and how terrible and toxic the company and it's product is.
I remember when I visited the FB offices for gigs a decade+ ago my colleagues would always joke that it was like a cult where everyone drank the koolaid. Not anymore.
posted by bradbane at 12:32 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
There is a massive difference between 3 billion accounts and 3 billion users. Don't fall into the trap on conflating the two.
Okay, I confess. There are actually 3.5 billion monthly users, but only 2.9 billion regular active users.
I'm sure you can research the total number of accounts for yourself.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:33 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Okay, I confess. There are actually 3.5 billion monthly users, but only 2.9 billion regular active users.
I'm sure you can research the total number of accounts for yourself.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:33 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Market's "Meh" on Meta Makes Mark's Money Massively Melt
posted by dephlogisticated at 12:35 PM on February 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by dephlogisticated at 12:35 PM on February 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
I bet there is still something to be learned working at Facebook in network engineering or a similar role. They were doing some cool stuff a few years back, so seeing it from the inside could impart some useful knowledge. Probably not worth sticking around long no matter how mercenary you are, though, since they're not going to be doing anything new if they keep shrinking the userbase.
posted by wierdo at 12:37 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 12:37 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think they can't possibly require people to stay over a year to keep the signing bonus. But yeah, could be a loooong fkn year.
For what it's worth, my friends who work there say they work on great teams, with great people and strong internal values. And these are people I consider morally strong who I would hire in a second if I had the cash on hand and a team that I needed bodies for. I find it difficult to reconcile sometimes how it is they're working for Meta.
I was asked to interview for the virtual world team a while back. I know I have the skills they need. The money temptation is strong, but I've resisted thus far. I just don't think I could face myself in the morning, especially after half a year of processing the HCA subreddit. I've likened it to going vegan and working at Raytheon.
posted by offalark at 12:59 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
For what it's worth, my friends who work there say they work on great teams, with great people and strong internal values. And these are people I consider morally strong who I would hire in a second if I had the cash on hand and a team that I needed bodies for. I find it difficult to reconcile sometimes how it is they're working for Meta.
I was asked to interview for the virtual world team a while back. I know I have the skills they need. The money temptation is strong, but I've resisted thus far. I just don't think I could face myself in the morning, especially after half a year of processing the HCA subreddit. I've likened it to going vegan and working at Raytheon.
posted by offalark at 12:59 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
SF prompt: the corporation, as a profit-maximizing AI, pivots to making developing countries richer in order to make their users more profitable.
Lemma: this has already begun, and the first accessible step was to make the richest developed country poorer.
posted by clew at 1:00 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Lemma: this has already begun, and the first accessible step was to make the richest developed country poorer.
posted by clew at 1:00 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think they can't possibly require people to stay over a year to keep the signing bonus. But yeah, could be a loooong fkn year.
They can’t force you to stay but they can put in the contract you’ll pay it back prorated to time you stayed. Which… I don’t even want to know how that would work fiscally surely a mess.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:38 PM on February 5, 2022
They can’t force you to stay but they can put in the contract you’ll pay it back prorated to time you stayed. Which… I don’t even want to know how that would work fiscally surely a mess.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:38 PM on February 5, 2022
Ha ha!
Everybody said closing your fb account wouldn't do anything to hurt the company. But I deleted my account last week and look at 'em now!
posted by ryanrs at 2:13 PM on February 5, 2022 [41 favorites]
Everybody said closing your fb account wouldn't do anything to hurt the company. But I deleted my account last week and look at 'em now!
posted by ryanrs at 2:13 PM on February 5, 2022 [41 favorites]
But would it be prorated over a longer period than a year? Starts sounding like first a regular bonus and then a guaranteed pay cut rather than a signing bonus.
posted by Mitheral at 2:14 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 2:14 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I experienced a similar thing while living in the Dominican Republic. Local TelCo companies charge high rates for texts so everyone just uses whatever is free and WhatsApp and Facebook were there first so everyone has them.
In Manila I remember there being service-exclusive deals for some carriers. Deals like 1GB/month for regular data, but unlimited data for Facebook properties for P299 (~US$6), compared to P599 (~US$12) for the cheapest monthly plan without a promo. The Facebook plans were popular among the call center employees I met. Similar deals existed for Google/YouTube, Apple Music, Netflix, Microsoft, etc., but it was pretty much only big players.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 2:55 PM on February 5, 2022
In Manila I remember there being service-exclusive deals for some carriers. Deals like 1GB/month for regular data, but unlimited data for Facebook properties for P299 (~US$6), compared to P599 (~US$12) for the cheapest monthly plan without a promo. The Facebook plans were popular among the call center employees I met. Similar deals existed for Google/YouTube, Apple Music, Netflix, Microsoft, etc., but it was pretty much only big players.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 2:55 PM on February 5, 2022
But would it be prorated over a longer period than a year? Starts sounding like first a regular bonus and then a guaranteed pay cut rather than a signing bonus.
No idea about FB but I know of places who do prorate it over 2 years. The difference with a yearly/quarterly bonus is that you get it upfront and can spend/invest it at that moment.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 3:03 PM on February 5, 2022
No idea about FB but I know of places who do prorate it over 2 years. The difference with a yearly/quarterly bonus is that you get it upfront and can spend/invest it at that moment.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 3:03 PM on February 5, 2022
Tell the recruiter you need the signing bonus up front so you can buy shares at today's discount price.
posted by ryanrs at 3:16 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 3:16 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
This is a momentary downturn because the stock market’s kinda been in the crapper since omicron hit. As the weather gets warmer in NYC and omicron fades, it’ll recover its value just like everything else — at least until the fed raises interest rates or the next variant hits or Russia does something threatening or some other random news event happens, because our reality isn’t based on reality anymore and hasn’t been for a while, and our society has the approximate memory and attention span of a goldfish.
posted by panama joe at 4:06 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by panama joe at 4:06 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
I deleted my account a few years ago, and it was a favorite move. It really can injure happiness or sort-of rewire attention span.
While briefly traveling in Eastern Africa, small one-to-two bedroom homes on popular shorelines, had billboard sized Facebook advertisements on the walls facing the shore. In theory, homeowners were paid a 'generous' $50/monthly for these advertisements.
"Facebook has a stranglehold on most of those places with locals literally using the words internet and Facebook interchangeably. When I lived in Vanuatu for a few months pre-lockdown, it was nigh-impossible to communicate with anyone without using a Meta-owned service." I find this very accurate.
The only other home-advertisement had been Coca Cola (somehow more charming), but the way FB monopolized communication in a "developing" country had been truly bizarre.
posted by firstdaffodils at 5:10 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
While briefly traveling in Eastern Africa, small one-to-two bedroom homes on popular shorelines, had billboard sized Facebook advertisements on the walls facing the shore. In theory, homeowners were paid a 'generous' $50/monthly for these advertisements.
"Facebook has a stranglehold on most of those places with locals literally using the words internet and Facebook interchangeably. When I lived in Vanuatu for a few months pre-lockdown, it was nigh-impossible to communicate with anyone without using a Meta-owned service." I find this very accurate.
The only other home-advertisement had been Coca Cola (somehow more charming), but the way FB monopolized communication in a "developing" country had been truly bizarre.
posted by firstdaffodils at 5:10 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
since they're not going to be doing anything new if they keep shrinking the userbase.
For what it’s worth, their networking team had some very creative ideas for extending telecom coverage into the third world. I suspect a desperate need for new users will push Facebook towards making them a reality.
I suspect Facebook is actually going to be a really interesting place to work for the next few years. Chaotic, but with lots of creative teams breaking off into their own little spaces. Facebook does not appear to be organized enough for the whole place to freeze in panic.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:22 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
For what it’s worth, their networking team had some very creative ideas for extending telecom coverage into the third world. I suspect a desperate need for new users will push Facebook towards making them a reality.
I suspect Facebook is actually going to be a really interesting place to work for the next few years. Chaotic, but with lots of creative teams breaking off into their own little spaces. Facebook does not appear to be organized enough for the whole place to freeze in panic.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:22 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Even a decade ago there were two sets of data plans available in the Dominican Republic and much of Latin America. (Probably elsewhere, too, but I lack the personal experience to say) For the equivalent of a couple of bucks a month you could get the "social media" plan that gave you unlimited access to stuff like Facebook, Google, and some other shit that's probably mostly out of business by now.
For full on Internet access, it was around 10 times the price. SMS and phone calls weren't actually that expensive, as they were less relative to income than they were here in the US, but if you could use a social media data plan for everything as you could once WhatsApp became a thing, it still saved a lot of money at a time when everything else (including the phones you needed to use a data plan at all) was getting steadily more expensive as the value of the currencies of major exporters increased.
posted by wierdo at 6:31 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
For full on Internet access, it was around 10 times the price. SMS and phone calls weren't actually that expensive, as they were less relative to income than they were here in the US, but if you could use a social media data plan for everything as you could once WhatsApp became a thing, it still saved a lot of money at a time when everything else (including the phones you needed to use a data plan at all) was getting steadily more expensive as the value of the currencies of major exporters increased.
posted by wierdo at 6:31 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
> His red, teary eyes were the result of a scratched cornea, the Facebook founder said Thursday
Huh, that's weird. It must have been really bad to scratch his eye through his nictitating membrane and third eyelid. And it must be really bad if they're not letting him lick it to promote healing.
posted by loquacious at 7:52 PM on February 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
Huh, that's weird. It must have been really bad to scratch his eye through his nictitating membrane and third eyelid. And it must be really bad if they're not letting him lick it to promote healing.
posted by loquacious at 7:52 PM on February 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
I appreciate joking that he's not human, but the lizard people conspiracy theory has some really bad bed follows with antisemitism, I'm not sure they they're fellow travelers worth keeping just for the joke.
posted by Carillon at 9:08 PM on February 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Carillon at 9:08 PM on February 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
For what it's worth, my friends who work there say they work on great teams, with great people and strong internal values. And these are people I consider morally strong who I would hire in a second if I had the cash on hand and a team that I needed bodies for. I find it difficult to reconcile sometimes how it is they're working for Meta.
offalark, why do you consider these people to be morally strong? Typically this mismatch between what people say and what they actually do would indicate that their principles are for showing, not for blowing.
Have you asked them how their strong moral values align with working for Meta? How they personally view the impact that Facebook / Meta has had on the world, and their contributions to that impact?
If you haven't, why not? Perhaps the question might offend them or make them uncomfortable? Or perhaps you might not like to hear their response? Worse yet, might the answer force you to take a stand that would upset your friends and harm your own professional and social network?
Right now many of us are struggling with how to engage with colleagues whose strong progressive values and opposition to racism and sexism have turned out to be a thin veneer--that they are unwilling to undertake any conversations or actions that might inconvenience professionally or provoke a socially uncomfortable situation. Or--and this is truly painful--we think back to occasions when we betrayed our own principles to avoid upsetting a more powerful person in our workplace or to gain a small financial advantage.
[on re-reading the above, change the word 'we' to 'I' in the above paragraph--I shouldn't try to push my personal struggles onto an anonymous 'we']
posted by tumbling at 12:17 AM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
offalark, why do you consider these people to be morally strong? Typically this mismatch between what people say and what they actually do would indicate that their principles are for showing, not for blowing.
Have you asked them how their strong moral values align with working for Meta? How they personally view the impact that Facebook / Meta has had on the world, and their contributions to that impact?
If you haven't, why not? Perhaps the question might offend them or make them uncomfortable? Or perhaps you might not like to hear their response? Worse yet, might the answer force you to take a stand that would upset your friends and harm your own professional and social network?
Right now many of us are struggling with how to engage with colleagues whose strong progressive values and opposition to racism and sexism have turned out to be a thin veneer--that they are unwilling to undertake any conversations or actions that might inconvenience professionally or provoke a socially uncomfortable situation. Or--and this is truly painful--we think back to occasions when we betrayed our own principles to avoid upsetting a more powerful person in our workplace or to gain a small financial advantage.
[on re-reading the above, change the word 'we' to 'I' in the above paragraph--I shouldn't try to push my personal struggles onto an anonymous 'we']
posted by tumbling at 12:17 AM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
You're really asking them to grill their friends on their possible moral failings?
posted by octothorpe at 5:34 AM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 5:34 AM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
the lizard people conspiracy theory has some really bad bed follows with antisemitism
There is no lizard people conspiracy. There's only one actual lizard.
posted by flabdablet at 6:13 AM on February 6, 2022
There is no lizard people conspiracy. There's only one actual lizard.
posted by flabdablet at 6:13 AM on February 6, 2022
Facebook threatening europeans with a good time
posted by DreamerFi at 6:17 AM on February 6, 2022 [15 favorites]
Facebook parent company Meta Platforms is considering leaving Europe if the group is no longer allowed to exchange data from European users with the United States. This message – which you can consider a pure threat – was included in a document that it has filed with the US stock market regulator SEC.Do it zuck. Go for it.
posted by DreamerFi at 6:17 AM on February 6, 2022 [15 favorites]
You're really asking them to grill their friends on their possible moral failings?
Pointing out to friends the difference between their words and deeds can be a helpful thing. If you don’t do it, who will?
Not that you have to make a big intense deal out of it or harp on it incessantly, but sanity checks are one of the benefits of having really good friends.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:35 AM on February 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
Pointing out to friends the difference between their words and deeds can be a helpful thing. If you don’t do it, who will?
Not that you have to make a big intense deal out of it or harp on it incessantly, but sanity checks are one of the benefits of having really good friends.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:35 AM on February 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
Mark Zuckerberg lost $31 billion.
A reporter interviewed Sam Walton after a big stock market crash (1987?). The reporter asked Walton what it felt like to lose a billion [or some large number] dollars in one day. "What do you mean?", Walton replied. The reporter said, "You own X shares of WalMart stock, it went down by Y dollars, so you lost X*Y dollars." Walton replied "I didn't lose any money because I didn't sell any stock."
posted by neuron at 11:26 AM on February 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
A reporter interviewed Sam Walton after a big stock market crash (1987?). The reporter asked Walton what it felt like to lose a billion [or some large number] dollars in one day. "What do you mean?", Walton replied. The reporter said, "You own X shares of WalMart stock, it went down by Y dollars, so you lost X*Y dollars." Walton replied "I didn't lose any money because I didn't sell any stock."
posted by neuron at 11:26 AM on February 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
I appreciate joking that he's not human, but the lizard people conspiracy theory has some really bad bed follows with antisemitism, I'm not sure they they're fellow travelers worth keeping just for the joke.
*weary sigh* Ok, noted.
posted by loquacious at 11:37 AM on February 6, 2022
*weary sigh* Ok, noted.
posted by loquacious at 11:37 AM on February 6, 2022
Walton replied "I didn't lose any money because I didn't sell any stock."
Having been through one of these crashes the people I feel sorry for are the employees who exercised stock options last year but hung on to all of the stock so they could sell it later. They now owe taxes on the exercise and may not be able to afford to pay them even if they sold all the stock they received.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:32 PM on February 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Having been through one of these crashes the people I feel sorry for are the employees who exercised stock options last year but hung on to all of the stock so they could sell it later. They now owe taxes on the exercise and may not be able to afford to pay them even if they sold all the stock they received.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:32 PM on February 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Facebook appeal over Cambridge Analytica data rejected by Australian court as ‘divorced from reality’
Throughout the 2010s, consulting firm Cambridge Analytica harvested the personal data of millions of Facebook users without their consent using a personality test app called This is Your Digital Life. The information was then used predominantly for political advertising, including to assist the Brexit campaign and Donald Trump.posted by DreamerFi at 2:27 AM on February 7, 2022
...
Facebook Inc has since attempted to have the case against it effectively thrown out, arguing it does not carry out business or collect or hold personal information in Australia, so it cannot be sued under the country’s privacy laws.
The full bench of the federal court on Monday threw out the argument, describing parts of Facebook’s case as “divorced from reality”.
It found the social media giant’s installation of cookies on the physical devices of Australian users was enough to show it was carrying out business in Australia.
Facebook parent company Meta Platforms is considering leaving Europe if the group is no longer allowed to exchange data from European users with the United States.
I’m confused by this. Is it meant to be a message to the EU (“Hand over the data or I’m cutting off one my legs — don’t think I won’t do it!”) or to the US (“Give use a GDPR equivalent so we can tell the Europeans their data is safe with us and we can hold on to what we have.”).
Facebook may be aware of the fact that, as entrenched as they are in the social media landscape, most of their products are fairly easy to drop. Facebook/Instagram/Whatsapp don’t offer much of a monopoly moat protection like other tech firms have dug out in the last couple of decades. If FB leaves the EU, so what? There aren’t many EU businesses reliant on them as they are on Android/Google Docs/AWS/iOS/Office/etc. The average European will wander off to Signal/YouTube/TikTok/whatever and businesses will follow. At some point, it probably has dawned on the higher ups that the whole metacoins thing is a bust. Zuckerberg is likely realizing that his company is going all myspace at the moment.
Most of our politicians don’t care – it’s not like they’re gonna miss dealing with the incessant propaganda campaigns and death threats on their platforms. Seriously, is there a downside at all to Facebook closing down over here?
posted by UN at 8:48 AM on February 7, 2022
I’m confused by this. Is it meant to be a message to the EU (“Hand over the data or I’m cutting off one my legs — don’t think I won’t do it!”) or to the US (“Give use a GDPR equivalent so we can tell the Europeans their data is safe with us and we can hold on to what we have.”).
Facebook may be aware of the fact that, as entrenched as they are in the social media landscape, most of their products are fairly easy to drop. Facebook/Instagram/Whatsapp don’t offer much of a monopoly moat protection like other tech firms have dug out in the last couple of decades. If FB leaves the EU, so what? There aren’t many EU businesses reliant on them as they are on Android/Google Docs/AWS/iOS/Office/etc. The average European will wander off to Signal/YouTube/TikTok/whatever and businesses will follow. At some point, it probably has dawned on the higher ups that the whole metacoins thing is a bust. Zuckerberg is likely realizing that his company is going all myspace at the moment.
Most of our politicians don’t care – it’s not like they’re gonna miss dealing with the incessant propaganda campaigns and death threats on their platforms. Seriously, is there a downside at all to Facebook closing down over here?
posted by UN at 8:48 AM on February 7, 2022
a Meat Platform in a world going vegan
posted by flabdablet at 9:13 AM on February 7, 2022
posted by flabdablet at 9:13 AM on February 7, 2022
I’m confused by this. Is it meant to be a message to the EU (“Hand over the data or I’m cutting off one my legs — don’t think I won’t do it!”) or to the US (“Give use a GDPR equivalent so we can tell the Europeans their data is safe with us and we can hold on to what we have.”).
Hash-tag Inclusive Or?
Either would be fine by Zuck, I think. As long as somebody else bends the knee for him.
posted by DreamerFi at 1:45 PM on February 7, 2022
Hash-tag Inclusive Or?
Either would be fine by Zuck, I think. As long as somebody else bends the knee for him.
posted by DreamerFi at 1:45 PM on February 7, 2022
It's even better... they basically admit it's all BS. They won't leave the EU. And the EU is calling their bluff
marketwatch.com:
marketwatch.com:
“We have absolutely no desire and no plans to withdraw from Europe, but the simple reality is that Meta, and many other businesses, organizations and services, rely on data transfers between the EU and the U.S. in order to operate global services,” the spokesperson told MarketWatch in an email message. “Fundamentally, businesses need clear, global rules to protect trans-Atlantic data flows over the long term, and like more than 70 other companies across a wide range of industries, we are closely monitoring the potential impact on our European operations as these developments progress.”posted by DreamerFi at 1:50 PM on February 7, 2022
Critics of Facebook in Europe took the company to task, however, bring attention to the threat. European lawmaker Axel Voss, who has had a hand in writing EU data-protection legislation, fired back on Twitter. “Meta cannot just blackmail the EU into giving up its data protection standards, leaving the EU would be their loss.”
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FacebookMeta might recover or this might be a long slide into (near) worthlessness but it is interesting to contemplate that if Zuckerberg had sold out at anywhere near the peak (ignoring the effects such a sale would have on the value) he would have paid less in taxes than the haircut his stock in Meta just took.posted by Mitheral at 6:47 AM on February 5, 2022 [13 favorites]