The Wellness-To-White-Supremacy Pipeline Is Alive and Well
February 7, 2022 10:34 AM Subscribe
On Friday, Angela Liddon, a Canadian food personality whose brand, Oh She Glows, encompasses multiple popular social media profiles, a website and a slew of bestselling cookbooks, posted this ~wild~ Instagram Story that breathlessly proclaimed her support for the trucker convoy.
"Okay, at first glance, Liddon doesn’t seem like she’d be a supporter of far-right movements. She started Oh She Glows in 2008 as a hobby and a way to repair her relationship with food...which is lovely and admirable. But what Liddon was also doing—probably without understanding this at the time—was entering the wellness space, which would soon explode in popularity and become a breeding ground for misinformation, exploitation and white supremacy."
(Previous trucker convoy post, previous counter-protest post)
"Okay, at first glance, Liddon doesn’t seem like she’d be a supporter of far-right movements. She started Oh She Glows in 2008 as a hobby and a way to repair her relationship with food...which is lovely and admirable. But what Liddon was also doing—probably without understanding this at the time—was entering the wellness space, which would soon explode in popularity and become a breeding ground for misinformation, exploitation and white supremacy."
(Previous trucker convoy post, previous counter-protest post)
I didn't realize the spillover from the wellness to crowd to extremism was such a thing, though come to think of it, I've seen it several times. It's sort of the secular version of the right-thinking-white-people ethos, I guess.
There's actually a joke we tell about one person we know.
Flight attendant: This man is having a heart attack. Is anyone on this plane a medical professional?
Redacted, stepping forward, nodding solemnly: I am a fitness blogger.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:57 AM on February 7, 2022 [53 favorites]
There's actually a joke we tell about one person we know.
Flight attendant: This man is having a heart attack. Is anyone on this plane a medical professional?
Redacted, stepping forward, nodding solemnly: I am a fitness blogger.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:57 AM on February 7, 2022 [53 favorites]
I hate that they are stepping up all these protests NOW, agitation NOW, because the wave of omnicron has (in many but not all places) peaked, and is starting to fall.
Any evidence-based politics is going to start scaling back the restrictions, in repsonse to the changing conditions on the ground. These fuckers KNOW that, and they are scheduling their dark money protests NOW so that they can take credit for what, in many places, was going to happen anyway.
posted by subdee at 10:57 AM on February 7, 2022 [42 favorites]
Any evidence-based politics is going to start scaling back the restrictions, in repsonse to the changing conditions on the ground. These fuckers KNOW that, and they are scheduling their dark money protests NOW so that they can take credit for what, in many places, was going to happen anyway.
posted by subdee at 10:57 AM on February 7, 2022 [42 favorites]
For anybody reading on a smaller screen or with a zoomed in view to compensate for aging eyes - the popup does not size to screen. You need to zoom out to see the x to close the popup.
(Pop-ups that don't properly size are probably less of a dark pattern and more just shit web design but the effect is the same).
posted by srboisvert at 11:02 AM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
(Pop-ups that don't properly size are probably less of a dark pattern and more just shit web design but the effect is the same).
posted by srboisvert at 11:02 AM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
The article goes into wellness as it's rooted in cultural appropriation/rich white women/etcetcetc, but honestly, I think it's simpler than that.
Wellness prioritizes the individual. It suggests that what's wrong with the world is the sum of what's wrong with you. And if you, personally, both feel okay and look okay—because ultimately other people only matter inasmuch as they approve of you, which saves you from asking difficult questions about how much your "well-being" is defined by a gnawing inner need for ongoing external validation—then the world is fine.
COVID? Such an inconvenience. Learn some home cooking! Here's an at-home workout that can help you thrive!
COVID mandates? That's you forcing me to do things that I might not want to do. And that's a threat to my wellness, which means it's a threat to my freedom, which means it's a threat to the world.
Of course it winds up classist and racist. When haven't we defined beauty and goodness in terms of skin color, or privileged it according to people who have both the free time and the money to pamper themselves endlessly in pursuit of narcissism nirvana?
(I like a lot of wellness-adjacent things, am generally very vain, and am a total sucker for gentle peaceful wholeness cultures etc/also find that my religious and spiritual beliefs overlap somewhat with the stuff in there, albeit on hopefully far less superficial of a way. Some of my best friends are wellness people etc. But it's a culture that's less accidentally blind to the rest of the world than blind by design, and doesn't seem to think much of altruism past the point where it makes you, personally, feel better about your Did Good For The World credentials, which you ought to wear as publicly as you know how.)
posted by rorgy at 11:07 AM on February 7, 2022 [93 favorites]
Wellness prioritizes the individual. It suggests that what's wrong with the world is the sum of what's wrong with you. And if you, personally, both feel okay and look okay—because ultimately other people only matter inasmuch as they approve of you, which saves you from asking difficult questions about how much your "well-being" is defined by a gnawing inner need for ongoing external validation—then the world is fine.
COVID? Such an inconvenience. Learn some home cooking! Here's an at-home workout that can help you thrive!
COVID mandates? That's you forcing me to do things that I might not want to do. And that's a threat to my wellness, which means it's a threat to my freedom, which means it's a threat to the world.
Of course it winds up classist and racist. When haven't we defined beauty and goodness in terms of skin color, or privileged it according to people who have both the free time and the money to pamper themselves endlessly in pursuit of narcissism nirvana?
(I like a lot of wellness-adjacent things, am generally very vain, and am a total sucker for gentle peaceful wholeness cultures etc/also find that my religious and spiritual beliefs overlap somewhat with the stuff in there, albeit on hopefully far less superficial of a way. Some of my best friends are wellness people etc. But it's a culture that's less accidentally blind to the rest of the world than blind by design, and doesn't seem to think much of altruism past the point where it makes you, personally, feel better about your Did Good For The World credentials, which you ought to wear as publicly as you know how.)
posted by rorgy at 11:07 AM on February 7, 2022 [93 favorites]
Just saw a truck outside my doctor’s office in Ottawa, as the convoy starts arriving in town. It had two flags stuck into the back of its truck-bed. One was an upside down Canadian flag. The other, a Confederate flag.
If you wave a confederate flag in Canada, there are two possibilities:
☐ You think Canada should secede from the USA
☑ You are a white supremacist
It's about as clever as let's go brandon. We know what you fucking mean.
posted by adept256 at 11:12 AM on February 7, 2022 [78 favorites]
If you wave a confederate flag in Canada, there are two possibilities:
☐ You think Canada should secede from the USA
☑ You are a white supremacist
It's about as clever as let's go brandon. We know what you fucking mean.
posted by adept256 at 11:12 AM on February 7, 2022 [78 favorites]
plot twist: the confederate flag was also upside down!
posted by ryanrs at 11:20 AM on February 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 11:20 AM on February 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
Wellness has been weird for years, but yeah. I was very heartened to see how many people in my various feeds were tossing their vegan cookbooks *loudly* over this one.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:25 AM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by warriorqueen at 11:25 AM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wish I could remember where I read it, but one of the earlier things I saw about the massive white supremacy problem of the wellness industry said something that has stuck with me for years and really summed up a lot of my nebulous feelings. Essentially, and I’m paraphrasing: “Wellness as a concept relies on the inherent assumption that if we are including all these things under its umbrella then all other things are subsequently unwell.” And that quickly and easily leads to all sorts of exclusionary antidiversity.
posted by Mizu at 11:42 AM on February 7, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by Mizu at 11:42 AM on February 7, 2022 [25 favorites]
There are people who are vegan for reasons having nothing to do with bourgeois wellness fads, can we not lump these things together unless explicitly coming from that kind of perspective? Thanks.
posted by remembrancer at 11:49 AM on February 7, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by remembrancer at 11:49 AM on February 7, 2022 [19 favorites]
Well this explains a lot. I have some relatives that are totally into alternative medicine but are also conservative voters. It always seemed a bit off to me until the anti-vax movement and I saw how it came from both extremes. The deep distrust of US healthcare is not that far off from a distrust in any other institution, including the government. Many of them have not worked in private industry for decades, so they think privatizing everything is the answer.
posted by soelo at 11:52 AM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by soelo at 11:52 AM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
Anecdotally, this tracks with my experience of the anti-vaxxers I know (knew). I had a couple legacy friends who proved to be right wingers with an anti-vax bent, and their friendships were easy discards.
But more common than that were the women (white) who were deep into self-care and alternative wellness. Not terribly political as such, and living in a nice little bubble of privilege. I didn't share their alternative wellness beliefs, but it had nothing to do with me, so what should I care?
I was surprised when they turned out to be anti-vaxxers (or 'vax-free', as one put it, not being opposed to vaxxes for other people, but her not being sure if it was 'right for her'). I should not have been surprised, as if one is already deep into alternative news sources, they're already right there for rejecting the jab.
Thing is, they weren't anti-science, they just leaned on the wrong sources. They used science as justification for their beliefs, they were just wrong about it. (One didn't believe in the Moon landings, and based that in an incorrect reading of the science involved, and sure it was ridiculous, but she was my friend so let's just avoid this subject). Ultimately, these alternative beliefs became so intrinsic to their identity, that there was no bringing them out to proper sources. They just didn't want to hear it. They rejected my friendship (not that I was doing any hard corrective push, I was only a seed of doubt), and I don't know how things stand with them now.
I don't know about them taking a further step into white supremacy, but given how susceptible they've been so far to out-there messaging, and given their fearful need for self-protection, one that envelops a large part of their identity, I can totally see that happening.
It's all terribly sad. There's a grand self-sorting happening politically, most of it obvious and deliberate, but a good portion of it low-key and insidious and between friends.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:53 AM on February 7, 2022 [28 favorites]
But more common than that were the women (white) who were deep into self-care and alternative wellness. Not terribly political as such, and living in a nice little bubble of privilege. I didn't share their alternative wellness beliefs, but it had nothing to do with me, so what should I care?
I was surprised when they turned out to be anti-vaxxers (or 'vax-free', as one put it, not being opposed to vaxxes for other people, but her not being sure if it was 'right for her'). I should not have been surprised, as if one is already deep into alternative news sources, they're already right there for rejecting the jab.
Thing is, they weren't anti-science, they just leaned on the wrong sources. They used science as justification for their beliefs, they were just wrong about it. (One didn't believe in the Moon landings, and based that in an incorrect reading of the science involved, and sure it was ridiculous, but she was my friend so let's just avoid this subject). Ultimately, these alternative beliefs became so intrinsic to their identity, that there was no bringing them out to proper sources. They just didn't want to hear it. They rejected my friendship (not that I was doing any hard corrective push, I was only a seed of doubt), and I don't know how things stand with them now.
I don't know about them taking a further step into white supremacy, but given how susceptible they've been so far to out-there messaging, and given their fearful need for self-protection, one that envelops a large part of their identity, I can totally see that happening.
It's all terribly sad. There's a grand self-sorting happening politically, most of it obvious and deliberate, but a good portion of it low-key and insidious and between friends.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:53 AM on February 7, 2022 [28 favorites]
I support "living well", but I don't subscribe to the "wellness" movement. I find it has way too much mysticism mumbo-jumbo and distrust of medicine.
It's not surprising to me that a LOT of the so-called wellness coaches are sucked into the movement. I think it secretly appeals to their "primal beliefs" of racial purity and superiority or something like that. You pretty much need to have an ego to be an influencer, and antivax ultimately is about believing in oneself, albeit to an unhealthy extreme.
posted by kschang at 11:56 AM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's not surprising to me that a LOT of the so-called wellness coaches are sucked into the movement. I think it secretly appeals to their "primal beliefs" of racial purity and superiority or something like that. You pretty much need to have an ego to be an influencer, and antivax ultimately is about believing in oneself, albeit to an unhealthy extreme.
posted by kschang at 11:56 AM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
A lot of wellness is based on personal narratives about:
"they didn't believe me and they wound up {misdiagnosing my fibromyalgia, prescribing me a statin, telling me to eat plenty of heart-healthy whole grains} ...
... so I had to figure it out for myself and {research fibromyalgia, reverse my own heart disease with nutrition and supplements, heal my autoimmune conditions with a low-inflammation keto diet}."
In many cases, wellness people really have actually been misled or lied to by the mainstream - doctors, health professionals, conventional advice, etc.
In many cases, they have, by necessity, been forced to "figure it out" on their own.
Unfortunately, going through this process can lead to overconfidence and hubris - having going against the mainstream and been right one or more times, you may end up thinking you're right every time you go against the mainstream view. Or worse, you may end up thinking you're right because you are going against the mainstream view. Unchecked, this can lead into a lot of weird and conspiracist places.
posted by theorique at 12:06 PM on February 7, 2022 [66 favorites]
"they didn't believe me and they wound up {misdiagnosing my fibromyalgia, prescribing me a statin, telling me to eat plenty of heart-healthy whole grains} ...
... so I had to figure it out for myself and {research fibromyalgia, reverse my own heart disease with nutrition and supplements, heal my autoimmune conditions with a low-inflammation keto diet}."
In many cases, wellness people really have actually been misled or lied to by the mainstream - doctors, health professionals, conventional advice, etc.
In many cases, they have, by necessity, been forced to "figure it out" on their own.
Unfortunately, going through this process can lead to overconfidence and hubris - having going against the mainstream and been right one or more times, you may end up thinking you're right every time you go against the mainstream view. Or worse, you may end up thinking you're right because you are going against the mainstream view. Unchecked, this can lead into a lot of weird and conspiracist places.
posted by theorique at 12:06 PM on February 7, 2022 [66 favorites]
"Anyone else having trouble sleeping this week?"
Maybe she should ask this question in Ottawa.
posted by Joan Rivers of Babylon at 12:10 PM on February 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
Maybe she should ask this question in Ottawa.
posted by Joan Rivers of Babylon at 12:10 PM on February 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
Dr. Mercola and Sci Babe, a pair, are hugely responsible for antivaxx sentiment in the "health industry." One of my best and oldest friends fell under their spell, and is sure his health status will protect him, and his sorta isolation. Here is some coverage. As with every malfeasance, follow the money.
posted by Oyéah at 12:14 PM on February 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 12:14 PM on February 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
Speaking of the "Occupy Ottawa" scene... Police have rounded up all the fuel and propane canisters while announcing that any Ottawa citizens providing material support to the occupiers may be subject to arrest, which includes food and/or fuel. Entire trailers of fuel were removed by police and FD. // Following GoFundMe's cutoff Occupy Ottawa went to the Conservative version called GiveSendGo.
posted by kschang at 12:15 PM on February 7, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by kschang at 12:15 PM on February 7, 2022 [8 favorites]
But more common than that were the women (white) who were deep into self-care and alternative wellness. Not terribly political as such, and living in a nice little bubble of privilege. I didn't share their alternative wellness beliefs, but it had nothing to do with me, so what should I care?
Thing is, they weren't anti-science, they just leaned on the wrong sources.
Yep. As someone who just, like, by default has purged all of the overt conservatives from my life (they don't wanna hang out with me any more than I wanna hang out with them, it all works out nicely), every single unvaxxed adult I know falls into this category.
They aren't anti-science; they aren't even anti-medicine, but they firmly believe that "medicine" in the westernized, hospitalized sense, is a measure of last resort. Fr ex: they did chemo for their aggressive cancers, they went to a hospital when their home births went terrifyingly wrong. They don't take an aspirin; they don't get IUDs. To their way of thinking, they mask, they distance, they haven't been to a grocery store or a restaurant since this started. They don't have covid, because they Live Right.
It's like they think ideally, health is something you achieve for yourself. Getting the vax would be letting medicine do their wellness lifting for them, or something.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:22 PM on February 7, 2022 [27 favorites]
Thing is, they weren't anti-science, they just leaned on the wrong sources.
Yep. As someone who just, like, by default has purged all of the overt conservatives from my life (they don't wanna hang out with me any more than I wanna hang out with them, it all works out nicely), every single unvaxxed adult I know falls into this category.
They aren't anti-science; they aren't even anti-medicine, but they firmly believe that "medicine" in the westernized, hospitalized sense, is a measure of last resort. Fr ex: they did chemo for their aggressive cancers, they went to a hospital when their home births went terrifyingly wrong. They don't take an aspirin; they don't get IUDs. To their way of thinking, they mask, they distance, they haven't been to a grocery store or a restaurant since this started. They don't have covid, because they Live Right.
It's like they think ideally, health is something you achieve for yourself. Getting the vax would be letting medicine do their wellness lifting for them, or something.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:22 PM on February 7, 2022 [27 favorites]
The subjects of this story are wellness influencers, but I suspect that a similar story could be written about any group of people that have vague anti-establishment notions about them, and are mostly white. I'm thing I'm slowly realizing is that an aspect of white privilege is that people don't tend to question white people's political beliefs as strongly. As long as you share some vague idea, people will fill in the blanks in a way that assumes the best.
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 12:25 PM on February 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 12:25 PM on February 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
Proving once again that the best quality snake oil generally starts with first-order snakes.
posted by Mchelly at 12:31 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 12:31 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's Calvinism, of course; the just-world fallacy. If you've followed all the "rules" and you "win" then that's because you deserve to win. You don't see the systemic privilege that puts you one step shy of the finish line, ahead of everyone else who has 99 meters yet to run. "You didn't run fast enough!"
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:34 PM on February 7, 2022 [43 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:34 PM on February 7, 2022 [43 favorites]
Almost all the people I know who believe in freedom not preventative medicine tyranny are crunchy granola sorts, so I can’t say I’m too surprised. Of course, many of us substitute rationalization for reason, so most of the “we have no idea what’s in the vaccine” people I know are also heavy smokers.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:34 PM on February 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:34 PM on February 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
I didn't realize the spillover from the wellness to crowd to extremism was such a thing
This exact topic, the pipeline from wellness/new age/yoga/etc to the extreme right, is the focus of one of my favorite recent podcasts, Conspirituality. Matthew Remski, one of its hosts, is quoted in the OP (which uses the term "conspirituality", but oddly, doesn't link to the podcast). Anybody with even a passing interest in this should check it out; they have dozens of episodes on various figures within these movements and they do a really great job explaining them.
posted by demonic winged headgear at 12:35 PM on February 7, 2022 [17 favorites]
This exact topic, the pipeline from wellness/new age/yoga/etc to the extreme right, is the focus of one of my favorite recent podcasts, Conspirituality. Matthew Remski, one of its hosts, is quoted in the OP (which uses the term "conspirituality", but oddly, doesn't link to the podcast). Anybody with even a passing interest in this should check it out; they have dozens of episodes on various figures within these movements and they do a really great job explaining them.
posted by demonic winged headgear at 12:35 PM on February 7, 2022 [17 favorites]
Not every country has $1500/month insulin* and sell-the-farm hospital visits, and not every country struggles to reconcile with it's history of slavery. So I wonder how well this trend travels.
I think that if you tell people they don't need insulin and they can cure diabetes by putting a crystal up their bum, you should go to prison for attempted murder. If we can snare some nazis at the same time, cool. It's just a thought.
*They should take the insulin part out of build back better and call it the Fuck Diabetes bill. Make those craven assholes vote for diabetes, and never let anyone forget about it.
posted by adept256 at 12:50 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
I think that if you tell people they don't need insulin and they can cure diabetes by putting a crystal up their bum, you should go to prison for attempted murder. If we can snare some nazis at the same time, cool. It's just a thought.
*They should take the insulin part out of build back better and call it the Fuck Diabetes bill. Make those craven assholes vote for diabetes, and never let anyone forget about it.
posted by adept256 at 12:50 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
What is the overt statement of The Freedom Convey if not THE SECRET implemented as political movement wishing away the pandemic as hard as they can and blaming those who do not similarly publicly display their fealty to the wish for the pandemic's continuation. In this realm of magical thinking a mask or a jab is a mortal wound to health and dignity, both personally and to the wider public, and a deadly virus is just the flu and regardless it can be cured but only by unapproved thinkfluencer recommended off-purpose medicines and holistic woo but not by scientifically tested and government approved medicines.
A vaccine mandate and universal masking in public also takes away the specialness of the wellness influencers. If everyone is by default making healthy choices what possible influence could they have? What makes them special once everyone is doing the correct thing? They pretty much by definition have to reject an existing consensus because their whole schtick is to offer up a better one (via drop shipping and affiliate links - the most pure of all commercial methods). To accept medical consensus in the this domain is to cede their overall claim of wellness authority. If vaccines are safe then maybe those chemtrails are actually just condensation.
posted by srboisvert at 12:50 PM on February 7, 2022 [11 favorites]
A vaccine mandate and universal masking in public also takes away the specialness of the wellness influencers. If everyone is by default making healthy choices what possible influence could they have? What makes them special once everyone is doing the correct thing? They pretty much by definition have to reject an existing consensus because their whole schtick is to offer up a better one (via drop shipping and affiliate links - the most pure of all commercial methods). To accept medical consensus in the this domain is to cede their overall claim of wellness authority. If vaccines are safe then maybe those chemtrails are actually just condensation.
posted by srboisvert at 12:50 PM on February 7, 2022 [11 favorites]
Not every country has $1500/month insulin* and sell-the-farm hospital visits, and not every country struggles to reconcile with it's history of slavery. So I wonder how well this trend travels.
The post is about a Canadian wellness influencer aligning with a Canadian protest. It is not a post about the USA.
posted by srboisvert at 12:57 PM on February 7, 2022 [51 favorites]
The post is about a Canadian wellness influencer aligning with a Canadian protest. It is not a post about the USA.
posted by srboisvert at 12:57 PM on February 7, 2022 [51 favorites]
One of my cousin's coworkers is an anti-vaxxer. She actually left her very good job over a vaccine mandate. I asked what she was going to do for work now. Apparently, she's going to start doing reiki. I cannot stop giggling about this.
(I haven't asked if she supports the truckers, but I would assume yes)
posted by kitcat at 1:03 PM on February 7, 2022 [11 favorites]
(I haven't asked if she supports the truckers, but I would assume yes)
posted by kitcat at 1:03 PM on February 7, 2022 [11 favorites]
In many cases, wellness people really have actually been misled or lied to by the mainstream - doctors, health professionals, conventional advice, etc.
In many cases, they have, by necessity, been forced to "figure it out" on their own.
They address this several times in the article, for example:
"I remember having a conversation with another editor about how we should approach wellness, though I can't remember if we were calling it that in 2016. It was complicated because our readers were very interested in alternative viewpoints, and we understood how poorly the medical system was serving women. But at the same time, we were also being inundated with references to “fake news” and understood that misinformation was already pervasive; I felt really strongly that we couldn’t give a platform to ideas that weren’t borne out by science."
and
"Yoga was probably the first tentpole of Western wellness, and as soon as it took hold, its deep breathing and intentional movement was immediately decoupled from its cultural and spiritual context. Instead, it became a way for (mostly) white ladies to feel better, especially in the face of traditional medicine’s bias against women."
And yet...
"At the same time, racialized, Indigenous, queer, disabled and poor people rarely have access to wellness spaces as customers, much less the opportunity to become practitioners themselves, even though many wellness trends are derived from their traditional practices, then repackaged as "ancient secrets" or "mystical knowledge." It all creates the perfect opportunity for white supremacy to flourish—and for the wellness industry to do serious harm."
posted by chococat at 1:03 PM on February 7, 2022 [25 favorites]
In many cases, they have, by necessity, been forced to "figure it out" on their own.
They address this several times in the article, for example:
"I remember having a conversation with another editor about how we should approach wellness, though I can't remember if we were calling it that in 2016. It was complicated because our readers were very interested in alternative viewpoints, and we understood how poorly the medical system was serving women. But at the same time, we were also being inundated with references to “fake news” and understood that misinformation was already pervasive; I felt really strongly that we couldn’t give a platform to ideas that weren’t borne out by science."
and
"Yoga was probably the first tentpole of Western wellness, and as soon as it took hold, its deep breathing and intentional movement was immediately decoupled from its cultural and spiritual context. Instead, it became a way for (mostly) white ladies to feel better, especially in the face of traditional medicine’s bias against women."
And yet...
"At the same time, racialized, Indigenous, queer, disabled and poor people rarely have access to wellness spaces as customers, much less the opportunity to become practitioners themselves, even though many wellness trends are derived from their traditional practices, then repackaged as "ancient secrets" or "mystical knowledge." It all creates the perfect opportunity for white supremacy to flourish—and for the wellness industry to do serious harm."
posted by chococat at 1:03 PM on February 7, 2022 [25 favorites]
I've got a History of the SS here which traces the 'wellness movement' back to Nazis.
It is no accident that prominent members of the SS (Himmler, Darré, Hoess, et alia) were members of the Artamans in the period shortly after the First World War, that they saw the future in terms of an escape from the city with its perils to a more natural existence in the countryside.posted by Rash at 1:05 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Surprise! Money tends to create strange bedfellows!
Folks who take up common cause with extremists often discover that they end up on the outside looking in after a while.
posted by zerobyproxy at 1:08 PM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
Folks who take up common cause with extremists often discover that they end up on the outside looking in after a while.
posted by zerobyproxy at 1:08 PM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
My wife, who is both a vegan and a cannabis coach, has been distraught to see how many people she follows and admires for various things go down the anti-vax rabbit hole in the last few weeks; Liddon is just the latest.
My take largely mirrors rorgy's, but -- especially when you cross over into the wellness community that embraces cannabis -- there's an arguably justifiable inherent worldview that big business and the government are liars who don't know what's best for us. Certainly on the cannabis end there's a very compelling through line from "government and big business colluded to supress and criminalize something that is much less harmful than many legal substances" to "government and big business are colluding now."
Vegans, too: decades of wholly wrong "you won't get enough protein and die" advice from the "legitimate" medical community, and pushed by the government's four food groups / ubiquitous meat-and-dairy diagrams at school.
You can't really be in wellness at all without claiming some sort of special insight that the mainstream lacks. So when you're building from a worldview whose default stance is "I know better than the so-called experts," I think you're predisposed to be kind of soft-brained for antivaxx lunacy, and get sucked into the white supremacy like a gull into a Cessna engine.
These are people who have tied their entire identity to movements that are premised on the fact that the government and industry have been deeply mistaken, if not overtly malicious, actors when it comes to health. They're primed for emotionally manipulative stories about the government and industry being bad actors in this area again. It's sad, but it's not astounding.
posted by Shepherd at 1:28 PM on February 7, 2022 [82 favorites]
My take largely mirrors rorgy's, but -- especially when you cross over into the wellness community that embraces cannabis -- there's an arguably justifiable inherent worldview that big business and the government are liars who don't know what's best for us. Certainly on the cannabis end there's a very compelling through line from "government and big business colluded to supress and criminalize something that is much less harmful than many legal substances" to "government and big business are colluding now."
Vegans, too: decades of wholly wrong "you won't get enough protein and die" advice from the "legitimate" medical community, and pushed by the government's four food groups / ubiquitous meat-and-dairy diagrams at school.
You can't really be in wellness at all without claiming some sort of special insight that the mainstream lacks. So when you're building from a worldview whose default stance is "I know better than the so-called experts," I think you're predisposed to be kind of soft-brained for antivaxx lunacy, and get sucked into the white supremacy like a gull into a Cessna engine.
These are people who have tied their entire identity to movements that are premised on the fact that the government and industry have been deeply mistaken, if not overtly malicious, actors when it comes to health. They're primed for emotionally manipulative stories about the government and industry being bad actors in this area again. It's sad, but it's not astounding.
posted by Shepherd at 1:28 PM on February 7, 2022 [82 favorites]
You can't really be in wellness at all without claiming some sort of special insight that the mainstream lacks. So when you're building from a worldview whose default stance is "I know better than the so-called experts," I think you're predisposed to be kind of soft-brained for antivaxx lunacy, and get sucked into the white supremacy like a gull into a Cessna engine.
This is glorious. Thank you for articulating this better than I ever have.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:37 PM on February 7, 2022 [22 favorites]
This is glorious. Thank you for articulating this better than I ever have.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:37 PM on February 7, 2022 [22 favorites]
Ugly truths about trucker protest coming out, Toronto Sun, Liz Braun, Feb 06, 2022:
*Trump Media and Technology Group (WP).
**Although GiveSendGo's Canadian Freedom Convoy page is offline, there's also a Freedom Convoy to DC 2022 (Campaign Created by: Daniel Greig) fundraising page:
posted by cenoxo at 2:51 PM on February 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
Maybe the first big clue on Ottawa’s trucker occupation should have been the Confederate flags. Or maybe the tip-off was former U.S. president Donald Trump calling Prime Minister Justin Trudeau a, “far left lunatic … who has destroyed Canada with insane Covid mandates,” [PDF of Trump's Feb. 4, 2022 statement on TMTG*] — this from the guy whose administration oversaw the deaths of 412,000 Americans in the pandemic he once claimed, “Is going to disappear.”More details in the article.
Certainly, there were people claiming from the get-go that the trucker convoy had been hijacked by far right-wing U.S. factions. A week ago, police in Ottawa said they were working with the FBI and had voiced concerns that there was a hefty U.S.presence in the funding of the trucker protest ensconced in Ottawa.
The GoFundMe kitty had crossed $10 million when the platform was asked to take a closer look; GoFundMe did indeed shut down the “freedom convoy,” stating that evidence from law enforcement and “reports of violence and other unlawful activity” made it clear that the fundraiser for the truckers was in violation of their own terms of service.
The trucker convoy organizers then went to GiveSendGo [dead link, but note **], a platform that bills itself as the No. 1 free Christian fundraising site. The Guardian did an expose of GiveSendGo after a data breach last year revealed the platform’s alt-right associations with vigilantes and hate groups such as the Proud Boys — groups banned from other platforms for hate speech and violence...
*Trump Media and Technology Group (WP).
**Although GiveSendGo's Canadian Freedom Convoy page is offline, there's also a Freedom Convoy to DC 2022 (Campaign Created by: Daniel Greig) fundraising page:
Up in Canada we stood up to tyrants and came together at the Capitol. We want American truckers to be able to reach DC as well. They need fuel and food, just like the Canadian movement. We will be using the funds to help in whatever capacity we can. Help support so that the Truckers can get there and show the Government we are united. Mandates have been proven to only hurt people, destroy businesses and peoples lives. We need to stand together to make sure our freedoms are maintained.IMHO, these are coordinated campaigns with others to come, no doubt.
We are taking our peaceful movement to the doorsteps of the Federal Government and demanding that they cease all mandates against its people. It is imperative that this happens because if we don't, our country will no longer be the country we have come to love. We are doing this for our future Generations and to regain our lives back.
Please give what you can. Donations are greatly appreciated and will go a long way to ensure that the government sees and hears, that we won't be silent, we won't be controlled, we won't back down. Not everyone will be able to make the journey to DC, but if you can't please consider donating to those that do. Again, thank you.
Please share the fundraiser with everyone you know.
New social media platform similar to FB groups, but does not censor like FB its called MeWe
https://mewe.com/join/freedomconvoytodc2022
Also telegram has been setup
https://t.me/freedomconvoytoDC2022chat
posted by cenoxo at 2:51 PM on February 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
Apparently, she's going to start doing reiki.
Ah, reiki: the laying off of hands
posted by eviemath at 2:56 PM on February 7, 2022 [12 favorites]
Ah, reiki: the laying off of hands
posted by eviemath at 2:56 PM on February 7, 2022 [12 favorites]
Not trying a derail, but reading from the article and links shared, I can't help but draw parallels with some of the language of the cryptocurrency/NFT scene. My nephew evangelizes and so much of what he describes is couched in terms of privileged information.. how this is disrupting traditional financial systems.. I get a strong vibe of how this is the smart way to circumvent all the traps of the Old Ways, and this past Sunday he fell strangely silent when his uncle and aunt started ranting about the damn "Freedom Convoy" and I'm preparing for the worst. I think there are many paths to delusion and the wellness industry and the crypto train travel similar routes, from what I can tell.
posted by elkevelvet at 3:00 PM on February 7, 2022 [21 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 3:00 PM on February 7, 2022 [21 favorites]
There is most definitely a (supposedly “green”) cryptocurrency/NFT and wellness overlap among some folks (mostly young men) where I live.
posted by eviemath at 3:27 PM on February 7, 2022
posted by eviemath at 3:27 PM on February 7, 2022
The key distinction to be drawn is that 'wellness' and 'self-care' are good, actually; the ills are when those things cover for self-centredness based on aversion to sickness. It's normal to fear the pain that goes along with unwellness, it's very odd to be averse to unwellness itself, or aspire to a Gnostic perfection of wellness. The 'mainstream' knowledge that these people seem to be against are the basics facts of infection that every adult knows: we're all linked together in a society with the best and worst of us, we all share our good and poor health, and that anyway being sick is universal and an inevitable part of mortality, it will happen to you. They don't want an alternative to medicine, what they want is to escape the basic bonds of solidarity, good and bad, of being the kind of animal organism that hosts infections, and to cheat death. Never trust a hippy.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:41 PM on February 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:41 PM on February 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
I mean, there was a whole THING (in case that link doesn't work quite right it's the Google results for "wellness influencer Qanon") from like late 2020 through mid-2021 where a whole bunch of mainstream media - Harper's Bazaar, Rolling Stone, Cosmopolitan, The Atlantic, NBC News, etc etc etc - noticed that a whole bunch of wellness influencers were sliding subtle or not-so-subtle bits of Qanon ideas into their blogs and instagrams and social media. And they were just picking up on stuff that, like, Anne Helen Petersen and Vox and BuzzFeedNews and other less well-known writers and websites had already been covering.
It reached a point where the term "Pastel QAnon" was coined to describe the phenomenon and the term now has its own Wikipedia page.
So, yeah, I feel like a lot of the "where did it come from, how did it happen, what's the connection?" stuff has already been covered in various places? "Alive and well" is a good description of what's going on here; Liddon is kinda just the latest in a line of white women influencers who have slid from wellness to white supremacy over the last couple of years.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:41 PM on February 7, 2022 [14 favorites]
It reached a point where the term "Pastel QAnon" was coined to describe the phenomenon and the term now has its own Wikipedia page.
So, yeah, I feel like a lot of the "where did it come from, how did it happen, what's the connection?" stuff has already been covered in various places? "Alive and well" is a good description of what's going on here; Liddon is kinda just the latest in a line of white women influencers who have slid from wellness to white supremacy over the last couple of years.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:41 PM on February 7, 2022 [14 favorites]
the conservative/wellness fanatic combo has been around for a long time - remember that there's been quite a few multi-level marketing schemes aimed at this audience - and god, guns, and gold often make appearances ... it's part of this culture
posted by pyramid termite at 3:53 PM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 3:53 PM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
Totally traceable right back to the turn of the century in the US - Mary Baker Eddy and Christian Science (probably appropriated Hindu beliefs), and through faith healing as well as yoga. The line between Jesus-as-cure and yoga-as-cure is sometimes wafer thin.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:22 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 4:22 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
It's a good piece, but I'm not sure it's accurate to equate wellness in this sense with white supremacy. Wellness folks who are jumping on this bandwagon seem to be quite unconcerned with the troubling white supremacy on display and I'm sure some of them sympathize, but I don't think there's as much overlap there as is being portrayed.
Body horror is powerful and has been tied so tightly to vaccines over many decades, sometimes in pretty mainstream ways (like the whole Wakefield affair). It's not surprising that people are terrified. And things like leaded gasoline and asbestos in our houses have legitimately poisoned people, so it is, in a way, understandable that people are afraid of 5G or vaccination. And our medical system has absolutely failed far too many people, many of them women, with chronic illnesses.
There's definitely a lot of Orientalism and such in the wellness world, but I'm not convinced that wellness in the sense we're talking about here is tied to white supremacy in the way the author claims. Thinking about the wellness types here in BC, I'm certain that many of them would also be strong supporters of First Nation's rights to self-determination. These people would also probably now tell you that the leaders of the truckers are a Jewish man and a Metis woman — and I think a lot of them probably really believe that and genuinely see it as a big tent rather than a explicitly far-right event.
In other words, that fear of contamination, the elevation of the "divine" body definitely may spill over into white supremacy, but I don't think it has to. I think we go wrong in trying to understand why so many people won't take a vaccine that could save their lives by making these simplistic connections.
posted by ssg at 4:24 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Body horror is powerful and has been tied so tightly to vaccines over many decades, sometimes in pretty mainstream ways (like the whole Wakefield affair). It's not surprising that people are terrified. And things like leaded gasoline and asbestos in our houses have legitimately poisoned people, so it is, in a way, understandable that people are afraid of 5G or vaccination. And our medical system has absolutely failed far too many people, many of them women, with chronic illnesses.
There's definitely a lot of Orientalism and such in the wellness world, but I'm not convinced that wellness in the sense we're talking about here is tied to white supremacy in the way the author claims. Thinking about the wellness types here in BC, I'm certain that many of them would also be strong supporters of First Nation's rights to self-determination. These people would also probably now tell you that the leaders of the truckers are a Jewish man and a Metis woman — and I think a lot of them probably really believe that and genuinely see it as a big tent rather than a explicitly far-right event.
In other words, that fear of contamination, the elevation of the "divine" body definitely may spill over into white supremacy, but I don't think it has to. I think we go wrong in trying to understand why so many people won't take a vaccine that could save their lives by making these simplistic connections.
posted by ssg at 4:24 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Fundamentalist followers of Mormonism, are white supremacists, and they follow a more health oriented diet, mandated by the word of wisdom. For a long time, and probably still, naturopathic doctors and midwives, deliver their children, one reason being, they don't get questioned about 12-16 year olds having babies. Politically they are very far right and there is a militant militia movement building in the outlier communities. They do a lot of multi-level marketing of, among other things essential oils, herbs and storage food. A naturopath in Mona, Utah is the essential oil king. These puzzle pieces interlock with the Mahleur siege, three percenters, et al. There is strong antivaxx sentiment, and a discussion of finding unvaccinated girls and women for breeding purposes. The truck connection? Not sure, but this all might tie in to the port slow downs, as an attack on our nation's economy, orchestrated by, say de name! Boris and Natasha!
posted by Oyéah at 4:36 PM on February 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 4:36 PM on February 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
Oh no. Oh nooo...
I own two of her cookbooks. I shall continue following her smoothie recipes (they are delicious) but it seems I will not be buying a third.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:47 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
I own two of her cookbooks. I shall continue following her smoothie recipes (they are delicious) but it seems I will not be buying a third.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:47 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Some of this issue seems to come from knock on effects of the obsession with individualism and libertarianism. Personal responsibility for health, as if people exist outside of society and the environment. Commodification of practices that can be beneficial to health, such as mindfulness, can reverse their polarity and ironically result in egotistical behaviour, and/or are used as a tool to create more acquiescent workers.
I am looking for guided meditation that doesn't gravitate around promoting some kind of 21st C Protestant work ethic.
Listening to great podcasts that cover this subject can only go so far.
posted by asok at 5:03 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I am looking for guided meditation that doesn't gravitate around promoting some kind of 21st C Protestant work ethic.
Listening to great podcasts that cover this subject can only go so far.
posted by asok at 5:03 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
These people would also probably now tell you that the leaders of the truckers are a Jewish man and a Metis woman — and I think a lot of them probably really believe that and genuinely see it as a big tent rather than a explicitly far-right event.
Interestingly, she also worked in the wellness industry before becoming involved in far-right causes. I agree that the article doesn't distinguish very well between "far-right" and "white supremacist" though.
posted by RGD at 5:04 PM on February 7, 2022
Interestingly, she also worked in the wellness industry before becoming involved in far-right causes. I agree that the article doesn't distinguish very well between "far-right" and "white supremacist" though.
posted by RGD at 5:04 PM on February 7, 2022
Hard to distinguish between the two these days. I wouldn't want to make an argument for that, a la speech class.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:45 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:45 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
I don't even think it's reasonable to lump all these people in with the far right. I'm sure a lot of them wouldn't even say they are on the right at all. A third of Canadians think they have a lot in common with the protestors (though that was a week ago, it's probably less now). I don't think a third of Canadians are far-right (or else the term is kind of meaningless).
It's a lot more illuminating to think about how the far-right has used this issue to pull a lot of Canadians over to their side, at least temporarily, rather than just calling them all far-right or white supremacists.
posted by ssg at 5:56 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's a lot more illuminating to think about how the far-right has used this issue to pull a lot of Canadians over to their side, at least temporarily, rather than just calling them all far-right or white supremacists.
posted by ssg at 5:56 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think the link to Ur-Fascism (and given the paywall, I repost a copy here) is useful, because Eco spells out the connection in his first three points: the idea that the answers already exist and need only be interpreted (and that therefore nothing new need be discovered), the rejection of modernism and enlightenment, and distrust of scholarship as opposed to easily understood action. All three describe wellness as much as fascism.
The white supremacy is a little harder to spot, but a useful lens I was introduced to recently is the white-person chair, or as we'd commonly know it, "the chair". White, Western society is very used to the idea of centring their normal as default, and othering anything else - so it's "chai tea", at least until white society claims chai for itself - so the way the wellness industry strips cultural practices from the products it adopts from is a form of white supremacy. They don't centre the existing practitioners, because that would give outsiders more power. Instead, they strip-mine them for inspiration.
posted by Merus at 5:59 PM on February 7, 2022 [17 favorites]
The white supremacy is a little harder to spot, but a useful lens I was introduced to recently is the white-person chair, or as we'd commonly know it, "the chair". White, Western society is very used to the idea of centring their normal as default, and othering anything else - so it's "chai tea", at least until white society claims chai for itself - so the way the wellness industry strips cultural practices from the products it adopts from is a form of white supremacy. They don't centre the existing practitioners, because that would give outsiders more power. Instead, they strip-mine them for inspiration.
posted by Merus at 5:59 PM on February 7, 2022 [17 favorites]
We will be using the funds to help in whatever capacity we can.
Wait, I thought the far right were the ones accusing the left of having paid protesters and foreign interference. Surely that was not just projection? Oh my word!
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:47 PM on February 7, 2022 [11 favorites]
Wait, I thought the far right were the ones accusing the left of having paid protesters and foreign interference. Surely that was not just projection? Oh my word!
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:47 PM on February 7, 2022 [11 favorites]
Incidentally, I brought this story to the attention of Mrs Biscuit, who has for fifteen years worked in the retail side of selling vitamins and dietary supplements. I said I had been reading this piece about the poorly-concealed links between wellness and white supremacy; she didn't even look up but said the companies involved barely even trouble to conceal it.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:52 PM on February 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:52 PM on February 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
These are people who have tied their entire identity to movements that are premised on the fact that the government and industry have been deeply mistaken, if not overtly malicious, actors when it comes to health. They're primed for emotionally manipulative stories about the government and industry being bad actors in this area again. It's sad, but it's not astounding.
This. So much (not all, but so much) of "wellness" culture/industry is just conspiracy - you see the truth (of I dunno, paleo wheatgrass slammers) while everyone else follows the lies (of vaccinations and modern medicine) like sheep. You're special and super smart. Hey, you cool enough to get that they're lying to you about all this other shit too? Of course you are, you're smart!
It's amazing how, if you know any, once someone gets deep into a conspiracy theory, they often quickly end up believing every conspiracy theory, because they play to the same insecurities that clearly worked the first time, and the ideas create a worldview that, while not necessarily entirely cohesive, has a narrative that strengthens the appeal of conspiracy theories as a whole.
posted by Dysk at 10:56 PM on February 7, 2022 [12 favorites]
This. So much (not all, but so much) of "wellness" culture/industry is just conspiracy - you see the truth (of I dunno, paleo wheatgrass slammers) while everyone else follows the lies (of vaccinations and modern medicine) like sheep. You're special and super smart. Hey, you cool enough to get that they're lying to you about all this other shit too? Of course you are, you're smart!
It's amazing how, if you know any, once someone gets deep into a conspiracy theory, they often quickly end up believing every conspiracy theory, because they play to the same insecurities that clearly worked the first time, and the ideas create a worldview that, while not necessarily entirely cohesive, has a narrative that strengthens the appeal of conspiracy theories as a whole.
posted by Dysk at 10:56 PM on February 7, 2022 [12 favorites]
there's an arguably justifiable inherent worldview that big business and the government are liars who don't know what's best for us. Certainly on the cannabis end there's a very compelling through line from "government and big business colluded to supress and criminalize something that is much less harmful than many legal substances" to "government and big business are colluding now."
The American suspicion of centralized power that's reflected in the constitutional structure of the US government is completely well-founded. It's just a shame so few people seem to think the thing through.
Centralized power is inherently dangerous. It's also inevitable, which is exactly why a healthy society needs to maintain robust checks and balances that limit and mitigate abuses of power by those unfit to wield it.
But the way such checks and balances have been implemented in the US has left them largely unfit for purpose. Rather than being checks on abuses of power, most of the US's constitutional checks and balances act as checks on power itself - specifically, on the power of elected governments to achieve whatever it is they were elected to do.
What's truly best not trusted is the totalitarian impulse: the desire to centralize all power in completely unaccountable hands. The way the US is set up, most totalitarians are to be found not in governments but in boardrooms. And when the political structure of almost every workplace is internally totalitarian, objecting to totalitarianism in the workplace even inside your own head is a severely career-limiting move. It's just easier to deny or disregard or even embrace totalitarianism and misdirect all one's rage against the Nanny State instead.
So it's tragic, but should not be surprising, to see so many people so long and so thoroughly fucked over by the unscrupulous, unaccountable rich (among whom I definitely number the "I'm not conspiring, you're conspiring" Andrew Wakefield) aiming their fury at entirely the wrong targets.
posted by flabdablet at 11:11 PM on February 7, 2022 [16 favorites]
The American suspicion of centralized power that's reflected in the constitutional structure of the US government is completely well-founded. It's just a shame so few people seem to think the thing through.
Centralized power is inherently dangerous. It's also inevitable, which is exactly why a healthy society needs to maintain robust checks and balances that limit and mitigate abuses of power by those unfit to wield it.
But the way such checks and balances have been implemented in the US has left them largely unfit for purpose. Rather than being checks on abuses of power, most of the US's constitutional checks and balances act as checks on power itself - specifically, on the power of elected governments to achieve whatever it is they were elected to do.
What's truly best not trusted is the totalitarian impulse: the desire to centralize all power in completely unaccountable hands. The way the US is set up, most totalitarians are to be found not in governments but in boardrooms. And when the political structure of almost every workplace is internally totalitarian, objecting to totalitarianism in the workplace even inside your own head is a severely career-limiting move. It's just easier to deny or disregard or even embrace totalitarianism and misdirect all one's rage against the Nanny State instead.
So it's tragic, but should not be surprising, to see so many people so long and so thoroughly fucked over by the unscrupulous, unaccountable rich (among whom I definitely number the "I'm not conspiring, you're conspiring" Andrew Wakefield) aiming their fury at entirely the wrong targets.
posted by flabdablet at 11:11 PM on February 7, 2022 [16 favorites]
(With Alex Jones pushing his bullshit supplements so hard still, isn't there arguably a white supremacy to wellness pipeline as well, even if it's smaller bandwidth?)
posted by Dysk at 11:26 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 11:26 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
Two quick thoughts on places this conversation has gone:
It's a really important pattern right now, imo, and probably the most(/only) humanizing thing about the collective worst groups of people in the modern world. And my suspicion is that a lot about the crossroads we're at as a society will wound up being resolved by how quickly our various institutions (whether political, medical, financial, or ideological) will be able to regain trust, and by which alternatives will find a way to genuinely function as institutions rather than (as most of them will) draw suckers in and then immediately implode.posted by rorgy at 1:45 AM on February 8, 2022 [11 favorites]
- Being comfortable with white supremacists as your bedfellows, and being prepared to overlook it for your own convenience because it doesn't affect you to begin with, is itself a form of white supremacy. And that's not considering the highly effective convert-apathetic-people-to-right-wing-extremism pipeline.
- People talking about the "(1) grow dissatisfied with/be actively betrayed by mainstream authority (2) look for an alternative truth (3) buy hardcore into simple-but-easily-disproven lies" cycle, or noting that here's the place where wellness meets the alt-right meets NFTs, are onto something—and you could quickly throw libertarianism and incels and half a dozen other mainstream groups into the mix.
It's a really important pattern right now, imo, and probably the most(/only) humanizing thing about the collective worst groups of people in the modern world. And my suspicion is that a lot about the crossroads we're at as a society will wound up being resolved by how quickly our various institutions (whether political, medical, financial, or ideological) will be able to regain trust, and by which alternatives will find a way to genuinely function as institutions rather than (as most of them will) draw suckers in and then immediately implode.posted by rorgy at 1:45 AM on February 8, 2022 [11 favorites]
I agree with everything everybody's saying, but also... I think one bad thing about our species is we kinda hate doing things in moderation. (I know I do!) And relatedly, nuance seems to be pretty hard for a lot of us.
Too hard, boring: Institutions have done real actual harmful things AND also helpful things.
Fun: BURN IT ALL DOWN, do this extreme diet, crystals!
posted by pelvicsorcery at 4:16 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Too hard, boring: Institutions have done real actual harmful things AND also helpful things.
Fun: BURN IT ALL DOWN, do this extreme diet, crystals!
posted by pelvicsorcery at 4:16 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
This. Is. Not. A. Story. About. The. United. States.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:02 AM on February 8, 2022 [21 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:02 AM on February 8, 2022 [21 favorites]
The article is barely about the truckers at all.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:48 AM on February 8, 2022
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:48 AM on February 8, 2022
The organizers of the Ottawa convoy (who primarily aren’t truckers themselves) don’t live in the US, much as Canadians and US folks alike would prefer to think that fellow Canadians aren’t among the most active in online right-wing extremism.
The Oh She Glows person, who is the subject of the article, also does not live in the US.
posted by eviemath at 6:00 AM on February 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
The Oh She Glows person, who is the subject of the article, also does not live in the US.
posted by eviemath at 6:00 AM on February 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
This. So much (not all, but so much) of "wellness" culture/industry is just conspiracy - you see the truth (of I dunno, paleo wheatgrass slammers) while everyone else follows the lies (of vaccinations and modern medicine) like sheep. You're special and super smart. Hey, you cool enough to get that they're lying to you about all this other shit too? Of course you are, you're smart!
The damned thing about this pandemic is that I have acted throughout as if I were a conspiracy theorist. I stockpiled and locked down early because I have friends in asia who warned me. I've routinely ignored the government weakening of mandates and declarations that things are safe. I quickly started ignoring the early anti-masking social pressure. I gave people very wide berths when walking on the city sidewalks even walking on the road. I switched to 5am running to avoid crowds. I ignored the "You can't get it outside" consensus until I was vaxed. I didn't trust the US approvals until other countries had approved the vaccine and hundreds of thousands of doses were administered worldwide (It helped that I wasn't eligible and that even once I was eligible it wasn't available). I got the J&J (because it was all I could get at the time - I wanted the mRNA jabs because I think they are cool). Once it became clear that J&J's performance at preventing infection was sus I bandited a booster and once boosters were officially available I got one of those as well.
Almost every "official" announcement during this pandemic has been garbage. They were either too late or too early and they have not once followed the precautionary principle for anything but protecting the economy.
So I get how someone can become a "wellness" believer. I have pretty much exactly the same establishment distrust issues. The difference is that I leaned hard into the the science and data itself bypassing the official interpretations rather than rejecting both the science and official interpretations and it leads to wildly different conclusions.... and in my case a fair amount of despair but I am part french and now a Chicagoan so such is life...
posted by srboisvert at 6:49 AM on February 8, 2022 [15 favorites]
The damned thing about this pandemic is that I have acted throughout as if I were a conspiracy theorist. I stockpiled and locked down early because I have friends in asia who warned me. I've routinely ignored the government weakening of mandates and declarations that things are safe. I quickly started ignoring the early anti-masking social pressure. I gave people very wide berths when walking on the city sidewalks even walking on the road. I switched to 5am running to avoid crowds. I ignored the "You can't get it outside" consensus until I was vaxed. I didn't trust the US approvals until other countries had approved the vaccine and hundreds of thousands of doses were administered worldwide (It helped that I wasn't eligible and that even once I was eligible it wasn't available). I got the J&J (because it was all I could get at the time - I wanted the mRNA jabs because I think they are cool). Once it became clear that J&J's performance at preventing infection was sus I bandited a booster and once boosters were officially available I got one of those as well.
Almost every "official" announcement during this pandemic has been garbage. They were either too late or too early and they have not once followed the precautionary principle for anything but protecting the economy.
So I get how someone can become a "wellness" believer. I have pretty much exactly the same establishment distrust issues. The difference is that I leaned hard into the the science and data itself bypassing the official interpretations rather than rejecting both the science and official interpretations and it leads to wildly different conclusions.... and in my case a fair amount of despair but I am part french and now a Chicagoan so such is life...
posted by srboisvert at 6:49 AM on February 8, 2022 [15 favorites]
Mark Hoofnagle coined the term "crank magnetism"... basically cranks can hold multiple irrational, unsupported, or ludicrous beliefs. It seems to apply here.
Basically, if you have one or more unsupported belief(s), you can easily pick up more in different domains that seem to jive with your general mindset.
Generally there's no harm in that... UNTIL they start to conflict with public health policies.
THEN it somehow became a fight between "do what's good for society" vs "I care only for myself, me, and I"
posted by kschang at 8:12 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Basically, if you have one or more unsupported belief(s), you can easily pick up more in different domains that seem to jive with your general mindset.
Generally there's no harm in that... UNTIL they start to conflict with public health policies.
THEN it somehow became a fight between "do what's good for society" vs "I care only for myself, me, and I"
posted by kschang at 8:12 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Almost every "official" announcement during this pandemic has been garbage. They were either too late or too early and they have not once followed the precautionary principle for anything but protecting the economy.
So I get how someone can become a "wellness" believer. I have pretty much exactly the same establishment distrust issues.
Being in a US/Canada bubble, I haven't spend any time in this pandemic in a place where there is across-the-board high trust in the government and public health authorities and a belief that they are generally telling the truth. I'm not sure if there is such a place in the English-speaking world - maybe New Zealand?
In any event, since February 2020 I've had a strong feeling of "you're on your own - the government and public health won't tell you anything that you didn't learn from grassroots sources six months earlier." From the risks of comorbidities (obesity, inflammation, etc) and associated biomarkers to the potential benefits of supplements like vitamin D or zinc, I have learned plenty from wellness people (though not WS ones, thankfully). The corporate news media never seems to emphasize these subjects. (It's a constant complaint of wellness people, of course.)
Part of the problem is that anybody who is talking about this issue on CNN or MSNBC or Fox is only going to echo the narratives that you have already heard a million times before. To hear new ideas you need to go to more independent sources. More independent sources are less vetted and are often based on charismatic individual "influencer" personalities.
Another part of the problem is that the talking heads tend to move in lock-step with each other and with policy makers to manufacture a coherent narrative. When things change direction fast, it can be very jarring to watch everybody shift at once. One of the most recent twists I've seen is that Dr Leana Wen, whom we commonly see on CNN arguing for stricter pandemic rules, has recently pivoted 180 degrees on masking and mask mandates (apparently operating in alignment with with a small army of people in local, state, and federal government).
posted by theorique at 9:07 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
So I get how someone can become a "wellness" believer. I have pretty much exactly the same establishment distrust issues.
Being in a US/Canada bubble, I haven't spend any time in this pandemic in a place where there is across-the-board high trust in the government and public health authorities and a belief that they are generally telling the truth. I'm not sure if there is such a place in the English-speaking world - maybe New Zealand?
In any event, since February 2020 I've had a strong feeling of "you're on your own - the government and public health won't tell you anything that you didn't learn from grassroots sources six months earlier." From the risks of comorbidities (obesity, inflammation, etc) and associated biomarkers to the potential benefits of supplements like vitamin D or zinc, I have learned plenty from wellness people (though not WS ones, thankfully). The corporate news media never seems to emphasize these subjects. (It's a constant complaint of wellness people, of course.)
Part of the problem is that anybody who is talking about this issue on CNN or MSNBC or Fox is only going to echo the narratives that you have already heard a million times before. To hear new ideas you need to go to more independent sources. More independent sources are less vetted and are often based on charismatic individual "influencer" personalities.
Another part of the problem is that the talking heads tend to move in lock-step with each other and with policy makers to manufacture a coherent narrative. When things change direction fast, it can be very jarring to watch everybody shift at once. One of the most recent twists I've seen is that Dr Leana Wen, whom we commonly see on CNN arguing for stricter pandemic rules, has recently pivoted 180 degrees on masking and mask mandates (apparently operating in alignment with with a small army of people in local, state, and federal government).
posted by theorique at 9:07 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
LOL at the idea that 'mainstream' sources would ever miss the chance to to tell fat people that they're gonna die
posted by LindsayIrene at 9:19 AM on February 8, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by LindsayIrene at 9:19 AM on February 8, 2022 [10 favorites]
appreciating the discussion. Though I feel I should point out, in my personal network the two most obvious cases of Wellness-Gone-Wrong are not what I'd call white. What they both have in common is they come from cultures that have been brutalized historically by white colonialism, and their original cultures both have well developed medicinal traditions that don't necessarily adhere to westernized science.
So there's a lot of fuel there for distrust in Big Western Medicine ... even as this distrust is making for very strange bedfellows.
posted by philip-random at 9:29 AM on February 8, 2022
So there's a lot of fuel there for distrust in Big Western Medicine ... even as this distrust is making for very strange bedfellows.
posted by philip-random at 9:29 AM on February 8, 2022
Related to that point is this insightful short thread from religion professor Alan Levinovitz, author of Natural: How Faith in Nature’s Goodness Leads to Harmful Fads, Unjust Laws, and Flawed Science:
"The reason there's a market for misinformation is because people's needs aren't being met."posted by PhineasGage at 9:49 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm so disappointed. I have all her cookbooks and her app and make her recipes all the time. I'm not vegan but my parents are gluten-free and vegan and her recipes are my go to when they are visiting. I make her nacho dip all the time as it's most veggie-heavy dish my little kids will eat. I'm don't think I'm going to throw out her books but I will definitely stop recommending them all the time and won't buy any more.
posted by carolr at 9:53 AM on February 8, 2022
posted by carolr at 9:53 AM on February 8, 2022
Being in a US/Canada bubble, I haven't spend any time in this pandemic in a place where there is across-the-board high trust in the government and public health authorities and a belief that they are generally telling the truth. I'm not sure if there is such a place in the English-speaking world - maybe New Zealand?
3/4 of Atlantic Canada.
Also possibly Yukon, NWT, and Nunavut, though I don’t know if, beyond English being one of the official languages, all of those would best be described as English-speaking?
posted by eviemath at 9:56 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
3/4 of Atlantic Canada.
Also possibly Yukon, NWT, and Nunavut, though I don’t know if, beyond English being one of the official languages, all of those would best be described as English-speaking?
posted by eviemath at 9:56 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
This. Is. Not. A. Story. About. The. United. States.
This is a story about white supremacists who receive some material and ideological support from the US. Their actions skirt the line of domestic terrorism, which has now crossed the border into the US. Right-wing extremism in the United States is part of the ongoing story in Canada, whether we like it or not.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:01 AM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
This is a story about white supremacists who receive some material and ideological support from the US. Their actions skirt the line of domestic terrorism, which has now crossed the border into the US. Right-wing extremism in the United States is part of the ongoing story in Canada, whether we like it or not.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:01 AM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
The primary driver that I see for the wellness-to-white-supremacy pipeline is the centering of the "moral" value of Purity above all others.
Moral foundations theory (originating in 2004) identified five primary moral foundations: Care/Harm, Fairness/Cheating, Loyalty/Betrayal, Authority/Subversion, and Sanctity (or Purity)/Degradation (a sixth, Liberty/Oppression, was subsequently added). The idea is that the relative importance of these underlying moral foundations in each individual drives that individual's visceral moral reaction to particular situations.
The value of Purity seems to me to be the core value of "wellness" (in sharp distinction to the value that drives health care, which is mainly Care/Harm). This is the dominant message behind wellness promotions of "clean" eating and "natural" body-care, and the whole toxic spiritual-bypassing soup of suppressing "negative" thoughts because they're low-vibration. This constant emphasis leads to the development of a reflexive sense of revulsion toward anything identified as unpure. How easy then to recruit people steeped in the concept of Purity to the anti-vax bandwagon by triggering their sense of revulsion at the idea of putting an "unpure" substance into their body. The same underlying concept of Purity pushes wellness people to swallow the anti-fluoridation and anti-wifi conspiracies.
Purity is, I think, the primary "moral foundation" on which white nationalism is built (the next strongest contender being Loyalty). The slogan "Don't call me anti-vax, call me pure-blooded" was seen in Ottawa during the first weekend of the occupation; pure-blooded is a known white-supremacist euphemism which means racially pure. The ability to trigger visceral disgust using the hook of (im)Purity is what the Nazis used to implement the holocaust.
Oh and the crypto thing? Who do you think the neo-Nazis think run the world's banking system?
posted by heatherlogan at 10:06 AM on February 8, 2022 [25 favorites]
Moral foundations theory (originating in 2004) identified five primary moral foundations: Care/Harm, Fairness/Cheating, Loyalty/Betrayal, Authority/Subversion, and Sanctity (or Purity)/Degradation (a sixth, Liberty/Oppression, was subsequently added). The idea is that the relative importance of these underlying moral foundations in each individual drives that individual's visceral moral reaction to particular situations.
The value of Purity seems to me to be the core value of "wellness" (in sharp distinction to the value that drives health care, which is mainly Care/Harm). This is the dominant message behind wellness promotions of "clean" eating and "natural" body-care, and the whole toxic spiritual-bypassing soup of suppressing "negative" thoughts because they're low-vibration. This constant emphasis leads to the development of a reflexive sense of revulsion toward anything identified as unpure. How easy then to recruit people steeped in the concept of Purity to the anti-vax bandwagon by triggering their sense of revulsion at the idea of putting an "unpure" substance into their body. The same underlying concept of Purity pushes wellness people to swallow the anti-fluoridation and anti-wifi conspiracies.
Purity is, I think, the primary "moral foundation" on which white nationalism is built (the next strongest contender being Loyalty). The slogan "Don't call me anti-vax, call me pure-blooded" was seen in Ottawa during the first weekend of the occupation; pure-blooded is a known white-supremacist euphemism which means racially pure. The ability to trigger visceral disgust using the hook of (im)Purity is what the Nazis used to implement the holocaust.
Oh and the crypto thing? Who do you think the neo-Nazis think run the world's banking system?
posted by heatherlogan at 10:06 AM on February 8, 2022 [25 favorites]
Trust in government? Sure... Hawaii. They got COVID under control, with COVID death rate as low as 80 per 100K, 1/4 of the worst mainland states, with strict curfews, quarantines, with arrest and deportation if you try to break quarantine. They even broke up parties when they outlawed large indoor gatherings, at least HNL police did.
But we've wandered far from topic.
------
I wonder if there's a group of agitators and wannabes, professional riot crowd, if you will, who just travel from one region to another just to be sh- stirrers.
posted by kschang at 10:07 AM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
But we've wandered far from topic.
------
I wonder if there's a group of agitators and wannabes, professional riot crowd, if you will, who just travel from one region to another just to be sh- stirrers.
posted by kschang at 10:07 AM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
Wow, heatherlogan, that info on moral foundations and those dimensions seems really to explain a lot about a lot of things. I'm definitely going to go read more about the theory.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:34 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jacquilynne at 10:34 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
It would be nice if posters here wouldn't take a story that is only tangentially involves the U.S. and making the U.S. the sole focus of their comments. For crying out loud.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:46 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:46 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Right-wing extremism in the United States is part of the ongoing story in Canada, whether we like it or not
Agreed - we are fairly integrated (it is so very apparent since the rise of Trump and the number of "supporters" here in Canada) - the leader of the "Proud Boys" is/was Canadian. Most people do not know that Canada was ok with the KKK in the 1920's/30's... Saskatchewan at one point had more than 25,000 members.
posted by rozcakj at 11:03 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Agreed - we are fairly integrated (it is so very apparent since the rise of Trump and the number of "supporters" here in Canada) - the leader of the "Proud Boys" is/was Canadian. Most people do not know that Canada was ok with the KKK in the 1920's/30's... Saskatchewan at one point had more than 25,000 members.
posted by rozcakj at 11:03 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
New study: Anti-vaxxers have unusual moral foundations: low on authority, high on purity. Includes advice for vaccine messaging
posted by heatherlogan at 11:38 AM on February 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 11:38 AM on February 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
theorique: In many cases, wellness people really have actually been misled or lied to by the mainstream - doctors, health professionals, conventional advice, etc.
In many cases, they have, by necessity, been forced to "figure it out" on their own.
Unfortunately, going through this process can lead to overconfidence and hubris - having going against the mainstream and been right one or more times, you may end up thinking you're right every time you go against the mainstream view. Or worse, you may end up thinking you're right because you are going against the mainstream view.
Yup yup yup. And I've even seen the process work the other way--alternative stuff that's worth exploring being dismissed out of hand because it gets associated with woo, antivaxers, and ultimately these QAcks.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:40 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
In many cases, they have, by necessity, been forced to "figure it out" on their own.
Unfortunately, going through this process can lead to overconfidence and hubris - having going against the mainstream and been right one or more times, you may end up thinking you're right every time you go against the mainstream view. Or worse, you may end up thinking you're right because you are going against the mainstream view.
Yup yup yup. And I've even seen the process work the other way--alternative stuff that's worth exploring being dismissed out of hand because it gets associated with woo, antivaxers, and ultimately these QAcks.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:40 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's very disturbing to see the actual degree to which this movement is successfully obscuring it's real motivations and goals. If the wellness industry is really becoming blindly complicit with the Canadian far-right, this will bring a lot more women.
Liddon clearly thinks this whole thing is about Canada becoming the utopia of love and light that we all want it to be! Sigh.
posted by kitcat at 11:47 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Liddon clearly thinks this whole thing is about Canada becoming the utopia of love and light that we all want it to be! Sigh.
posted by kitcat at 11:47 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Includes advice for vaccine messaging
from the article:
So the most effective approach may be to emphasize why vaccines are so crucial, to your child and to society as a whole—while conceding that parents have the final choice.
so persuasion as opposed to imposition. Makes sense to me. And it sounds like what might expect from a so-called free society. It's also worth emphasizing that the messaging in question is to be aimed at the fence sitters, not so much the outright rejecters, whose minds are made up, it seems. They ain't gonna budge.
posted by philip-random at 5:24 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
from the article:
So the most effective approach may be to emphasize why vaccines are so crucial, to your child and to society as a whole—while conceding that parents have the final choice.
so persuasion as opposed to imposition. Makes sense to me. And it sounds like what might expect from a so-called free society. It's also worth emphasizing that the messaging in question is to be aimed at the fence sitters, not so much the outright rejecters, whose minds are made up, it seems. They ain't gonna budge.
posted by philip-random at 5:24 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
So the most effective approach may be to emphasize why vaccines are so crucial, to your child and society as a whole -- while conceding that parents have the final choice.
And it wasn't for a lack of information from health care providers. They were trying to reach parents. They answered patients' questions in person and set up FB and Instagram pages and held live radio call-in shows. But they were no match for FB groups and the well funded disinformation campaigns run by the likes of Andrew Wakefield, RFK Jr. and Christiane Northrup.
(Just before the March 2020 lockdown, voters supported a measure eliminating all but medical exemptions from childhood vaccinations. Because COVID, it didn't take effect until the start of this school year, so there are no stats yet on how many families have sought medical exemptions.)
On my phone, I wasn't able to read more than the abstract of the Australian study cited in the linked article, and the article didn't make clear to me how long you keep up the messaging campaign that " 'vaccination (is) an opportunity to keep their child's immune system fit and healthy, enabling it to live a life free and unrestricted by disease' " in order to give the fence sitters a chance to get on board.
posted by virago at 9:15 PM on February 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
So persuasion as opposed to imposition. Makes sense to me. And it sounds like what we might expect from a so-called free society.I live in a state in the US that took a similar approach for a number of years. In order to give "parents ... the final choice," parents were allowed to opt out of vaccinations for their children if they had religious or philosophical objections. And in pockets of the state, opt-out rates were up to 24% and schools were experiencing whooping cough outbreaks.
And it wasn't for a lack of information from health care providers. They were trying to reach parents. They answered patients' questions in person and set up FB and Instagram pages and held live radio call-in shows. But they were no match for FB groups and the well funded disinformation campaigns run by the likes of Andrew Wakefield, RFK Jr. and Christiane Northrup.
(Just before the March 2020 lockdown, voters supported a measure eliminating all but medical exemptions from childhood vaccinations. Because COVID, it didn't take effect until the start of this school year, so there are no stats yet on how many families have sought medical exemptions.)
On my phone, I wasn't able to read more than the abstract of the Australian study cited in the linked article, and the article didn't make clear to me how long you keep up the messaging campaign that " 'vaccination (is) an opportunity to keep their child's immune system fit and healthy, enabling it to live a life free and unrestricted by disease' " in order to give the fence sitters a chance to get on board.
posted by virago at 9:15 PM on February 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
I've had successes and failures in 'turning' people deep in the wellness community on to vaccines. My most persuasive comment so far I think is saying that I'd rather take a vaccine that teaches my natural immunities to fight disease over a broad spectrum antibiotic that kills everything including beneficial gut flora any day. And just leave it there.
If that sounds a bit gobbledygook ish, yeah sure, but I think after reading some of the excellent resources in this thread, it helps because it appeals to the purity argument.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:00 AM on February 9, 2022 [16 favorites]
If that sounds a bit gobbledygook ish, yeah sure, but I think after reading some of the excellent resources in this thread, it helps because it appeals to the purity argument.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:00 AM on February 9, 2022 [16 favorites]
Dr Leana Wen, whom we commonly see on CNN arguing for stricter pandemic rules, has recently pivoted 180 degrees on masking and mask mandates (apparently operating in alignment with with a small army of people in local, state, and federal government).
The scuttlebutt is a lot of public health people are angling for jobs in the Biden admin as others are stepping down. So suddenly a lot public health people have adopted the supposedly economy friendly "live with covid" line as a job audition. It's quite jarring.
posted by srboisvert at 2:46 PM on February 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
The scuttlebutt is a lot of public health people are angling for jobs in the Biden admin as others are stepping down. So suddenly a lot public health people have adopted the supposedly economy friendly "live with covid" line as a job audition. It's quite jarring.
posted by srboisvert at 2:46 PM on February 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
warriorqueen, it sounds like you're working with people where they are, which is a more realistic way to effect change than continuing to reiterate "It works because science (details added)" and being frustrated when someone else doesn't accept that. After all, I don't care whether people are taking the vaccine for the same reasons I am -- I just care that they are taking it.
posted by virago at 7:10 AM on February 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by virago at 7:10 AM on February 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
PS Not that your argument is not factually based, because it is. But it's not centered on the arguments that I am accustomed to hearing people use to defend vaccination.
posted by virago at 7:20 AM on February 10, 2022
posted by virago at 7:20 AM on February 10, 2022
My impression is that "wellness" has been part of anti-establishment movements on both the left and the right for over a century. Heck, much of Gandhi's autobiography was about what you might call wellness. (He said that plenty of other people had written about his campaigns against the British Empire, so he wanted to focus on the ways that vegetarianism strengthened your spiritual nature in its fight against your animal nature.)
To me it seems like the real story is whatever happened to the anti-establishment left over the past couple of decades. There seems to be little room remaining on the left for... anti-science? anti-medicine? ...so people with those leanings find themselves rejected on the left and welcomed on the right.
That's what it seems like, anyway. I'd love to learn more about what happened to the anti-establishment left.
posted by clawsoon at 11:34 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
To me it seems like the real story is whatever happened to the anti-establishment left over the past couple of decades. There seems to be little room remaining on the left for... anti-science? anti-medicine? ...so people with those leanings find themselves rejected on the left and welcomed on the right.
That's what it seems like, anyway. I'd love to learn more about what happened to the anti-establishment left.
posted by clawsoon at 11:34 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Anti-establishment =/= anti-science. That is, there is a difference between authority or power and expertise.
posted by eviemath at 3:29 PM on February 12, 2022
posted by eviemath at 3:29 PM on February 12, 2022
That's true, but it can be hard to figure out which is which if you're not close to being an expert yourself.
Lots of people believe in simplistic versions of evolutionary psychology, for example, because it came out of the scientific establishment; it takes someone with considerable expertise in a related field like sciatrix to really tear it apart. And even then, who should the average person trust: A Distinguished Professor of Something or Other, or an early-career postdoc?
I wonder if anti-establishment anti-science leftism was bigger back when scientists were more strongly identified - rightly or wrongly - with nukes, pesticides, and plastics.
posted by clawsoon at 3:53 PM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Lots of people believe in simplistic versions of evolutionary psychology, for example, because it came out of the scientific establishment; it takes someone with considerable expertise in a related field like sciatrix to really tear it apart. And even then, who should the average person trust: A Distinguished Professor of Something or Other, or an early-career postdoc?
I wonder if anti-establishment anti-science leftism was bigger back when scientists were more strongly identified - rightly or wrongly - with nukes, pesticides, and plastics.
posted by clawsoon at 3:53 PM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
I mean, functionally, I'm not perfect and I can be hideously wrong same as anyone else. I've got my blind spots and my biases, too. And I'm as prone to relying on reflexive shorthand in fields in which I have not read widely and developed informed opinions as anyone.
The problem is that fact-checking routinely enough to build a grasp of expertise sufficient to develop a 'smell test' for new ideas is too time consuming and expensive for anyone to do, so we tend to collectively rely on heuristics or our social networks (for "trustworthy person I know with some training in that") instead. And unfortunately we've been collectively defunding our fact-checking institutions and replacing them with profit-driven institutions, which makes it worse when the idea-generation institutions fuck up again. As they often do! The harder we work people and the more tired everyone is, the more likely we rely on shorthands and heuristics to identify which ideas to assess as accurate and which to consider more skeptically.
If I'm considering the difference between anti-establishment and anti-science.... the concept of being "anti-establishment" seems like one of those nasty slippery things where two people can be quite confident that each of them has the same thing in mind but are also visualizing very different kinds of people, ideas, and behaviors. So I'm a little confused about what you're articulating there?
posted by sciatrix at 4:16 PM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
The problem is that fact-checking routinely enough to build a grasp of expertise sufficient to develop a 'smell test' for new ideas is too time consuming and expensive for anyone to do, so we tend to collectively rely on heuristics or our social networks (for "trustworthy person I know with some training in that") instead. And unfortunately we've been collectively defunding our fact-checking institutions and replacing them with profit-driven institutions, which makes it worse when the idea-generation institutions fuck up again. As they often do! The harder we work people and the more tired everyone is, the more likely we rely on shorthands and heuristics to identify which ideas to assess as accurate and which to consider more skeptically.
If I'm considering the difference between anti-establishment and anti-science.... the concept of being "anti-establishment" seems like one of those nasty slippery things where two people can be quite confident that each of them has the same thing in mind but are also visualizing very different kinds of people, ideas, and behaviors. So I'm a little confused about what you're articulating there?
posted by sciatrix at 4:16 PM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
So I'm a little confused about what you're articulating there?
Me too. :-) I'm just kind of lazily exploring why people who have conspiracy theories about The Man, where the amorphously defined Man includes the medical establishment, used to have homes on both the left and the right, but seem to have lost their home on the left over the past couple of decades.
posted by clawsoon at 4:44 PM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Me too. :-) I'm just kind of lazily exploring why people who have conspiracy theories about The Man, where the amorphously defined Man includes the medical establishment, used to have homes on both the left and the right, but seem to have lost their home on the left over the past couple of decades.
posted by clawsoon at 4:44 PM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Some conspiracies are advocated by foreign actors, while yet others are pushed by Russian cyberops which has also poured fuel on bogus theories such as "5G caused COVID".
You can also thank Qanon fodders who kept going even after their star was forced to exit stage left.
Personally, it's social media that became the huge enabler for such conspiracists to find their own echo chambers and feed off one another, and for foreign parties to egg them on. There is belief that Qanon started as a joke and took on a life of its own.
posted by kschang at 5:58 PM on February 12, 2022
You can also thank Qanon fodders who kept going even after their star was forced to exit stage left.
Personally, it's social media that became the huge enabler for such conspiracists to find their own echo chambers and feed off one another, and for foreign parties to egg them on. There is belief that Qanon started as a joke and took on a life of its own.
posted by kschang at 5:58 PM on February 12, 2022
Seems like an entirely reasonable belief to me, given its well documented origin as a shitpost on 4chan, a forum devoted almost entirely to shitposting.
posted by flabdablet at 7:13 PM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 7:13 PM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
The crazy part is some mentally disturbed people take Qanon seriously and actually hurt people.
If they ever find the ones who egged these people on, can they be tried for manslaughter? Probably not. They'll say that they never meant for anything to be taken seriously, duh. And it's pretty obvious these agitators don't give a ****. To them it's all a joke. AND is what's really sick schedenfraude.
posted by kschang at 9:49 PM on February 12, 2022
Troy Burke, 45, admitted to shooting and killing his wife, Jessica Burke, 29, on January 27, 2021...And he's not the only one. One tried to kill his family ahead of inauguration day, and another blew up his RV killing himself.
Burke believed his wife was a transgender offspring of President Joe Biden and that she was a CIA-linked child sex trafficker. He also told authorities that a neuro-link had been inserted into his brain that allowed people to access his thoughts.
If they ever find the ones who egged these people on, can they be tried for manslaughter? Probably not. They'll say that they never meant for anything to be taken seriously, duh. And it's pretty obvious these agitators don't give a ****. To them it's all a joke. AND is what's really sick schedenfraude.
posted by kschang at 9:49 PM on February 12, 2022
Canadians are responsible for roughly half the money raised online for the trucker convoy, leaked data shows. (Most of the rest from the United States.)
Alberta police arrest 11 protesters and seize a cache of weapons near the border.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:05 PM on February 14, 2022
Alberta police arrest 11 protesters and seize a cache of weapons near the border.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:05 PM on February 14, 2022
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Not to take the discussion away from Canada, but there is enough overlap with this protest, extremist right-wing American politics, and Russian vaccine disinformation campaigns around the world, that south-of-the-border extremism might add some context to why some Canadians are now waving Nazi flags through Ottawa:
Trump and allies try to redefine racism by casting White men as victims.
This circles back to Umberto Eco's classic Ur-Fascism, particularly racism being at the core of the political movement:
5. Besides, disagreement is a sign of diversity. Ur-Fascism grows up and seeks for consensus by exploiting and exacerbating the natural fear of difference. The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:54 AM on February 7, 2022 [32 favorites]