Madeleine Albright, first female US Secretary of State, has died
March 23, 2022 1:05 PM Subscribe
(Reuters) Madeleine Albright, who fled the Nazis as a child in her native Czechoslovakia during World War Two then rose to become the first female U.S. secretary of state and, in her later years, a pop culture feminist icon, died on Wednesday at the age of 84.
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posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 1:15 PM on March 23, 2022
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 1:15 PM on March 23, 2022
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posted by Trent Crimm, The Independent at 1:20 PM on March 23, 2022
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posted by Spike Glee at 1:39 PM on March 23, 2022
posted by Spike Glee at 1:39 PM on March 23, 2022
She's the first Secretary Of State that left an impression on my during my growing up.
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posted by hippybear at 1:40 PM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
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posted by hippybear at 1:40 PM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
Madeleine K. Albright, who came to the United States as an 11-year-old political refugee from Czechoslovakia and decades later was an ardent and effective advocate against mass atrocities in Eastern Europe while serving as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and the first woman secretary of state, died March 23 in Washington [...] Several of Dr. Albright’s relatives, including three grandparents, died in the concentration camps of Terezinstadt and Auschwitz. After the war, Dr. Albright’s father, a Czech diplomat wary of communism, feared he would be arrested following a 1948 coup by hard-line Stalinists in Prague. The family escaped once more, this time to the United States.
“I had this feeling that there but for the grace of God, we might have been dead,” Dr. Albright said much later. She said that she was drawn to public service to “repay the fact that I was a free person.” [...]
Inside the State Department, Dr. Albright never fully trusted many of her male deputies, who had wanted the top job, and was convinced they were maligning her behind her back, [journalist, and Albright biographer, Ann] Blackman said in an interview. Privately, Dr. Albright called them, “The White Boys.” (Washington Post obit; Archived link]
More on Dr. Albright's statement jewelry in Madeleine Albright on Her Life in Pins (Smithsonian Magazine Q & A, June 2010), about her book, and the Read My Pins: The Madeleine Albright Collection exhibit (now in the permanent collection of The National Museum of American Diplomacy). [Example: A "silver brooch shows the head of Lady Liberty with two watch faces for eyes, one of which is upside down - allowing both her and her visitor to see when it is time for an appointment to end."]
Smithsonian's Megan Gambino: Did a pin ever land you in hot water?
Dr. Madeleine K. Albright: Definitely. When I went to Russia with President Bill Clinton for a summit, I wore a pin with the hear-no-evil, see-no-evil, speak-no evil monkeys, because the Russians never would talk about what was really going on during their conflict with Chechnya. President Vladimir Putin asked why I was wearing those monkeys. I said, because of your Chechnya policy. He was not amused. I probably went too far.
[Per the Post obit: When her twin daughters were born prematurely and placed in incubators, Dr. Albright passed time in the hospital by teaching herself Russian. Albright also spoke English, French, Czech, German, Polish, and Serbo-Croatian.]
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:41 PM on March 23, 2022 [39 favorites]
“I had this feeling that there but for the grace of God, we might have been dead,” Dr. Albright said much later. She said that she was drawn to public service to “repay the fact that I was a free person.” [...]
Inside the State Department, Dr. Albright never fully trusted many of her male deputies, who had wanted the top job, and was convinced they were maligning her behind her back, [journalist, and Albright biographer, Ann] Blackman said in an interview. Privately, Dr. Albright called them, “The White Boys.” (Washington Post obit; Archived link]
More on Dr. Albright's statement jewelry in Madeleine Albright on Her Life in Pins (Smithsonian Magazine Q & A, June 2010), about her book, and the Read My Pins: The Madeleine Albright Collection exhibit (now in the permanent collection of The National Museum of American Diplomacy). [Example: A "silver brooch shows the head of Lady Liberty with two watch faces for eyes, one of which is upside down - allowing both her and her visitor to see when it is time for an appointment to end."]
Smithsonian's Megan Gambino: Did a pin ever land you in hot water?
Dr. Madeleine K. Albright: Definitely. When I went to Russia with President Bill Clinton for a summit, I wore a pin with the hear-no-evil, see-no-evil, speak-no evil monkeys, because the Russians never would talk about what was really going on during their conflict with Chechnya. President Vladimir Putin asked why I was wearing those monkeys. I said, because of your Chechnya policy. He was not amused. I probably went too far.
[Per the Post obit: When her twin daughters were born prematurely and placed in incubators, Dr. Albright passed time in the hospital by teaching herself Russian. Albright also spoke English, French, Czech, German, Polish, and Serbo-Croatian.]
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:41 PM on March 23, 2022 [39 favorites]
She was such a fine person. I was sorry to hear about this on PBS during the lunch break for the Ketanji Brown Jackson hearings. Like there wasn't enough distressing news already today.
*upon review: right on Iris Gambol*
posted by y2karl at 1:44 PM on March 23, 2022
*upon review: right on Iris Gambol*
posted by y2karl at 1:44 PM on March 23, 2022
"We have heard that half a million children have died [due to 1990's sanctions against Iraq]. I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"
Albright: "I think that is a very hard choice, but the price, we think, the price is worth it."
She wasn't the last person at the levers of power to think that, that's for sure.
posted by CrystalDave at 1:45 PM on March 23, 2022 [28 favorites]
Albright: "I think that is a very hard choice, but the price, we think, the price is worth it."
She wasn't the last person at the levers of power to think that, that's for sure.
posted by CrystalDave at 1:45 PM on March 23, 2022 [28 favorites]
The figure of 500,000 child deaths was for a long period widely cited, but recent research has shown that that figure was the result of survey data manipulated by the Saddam Hussein regime...The three comprehensive surveys conducted since 2003 all found that the child mortality rate in the period 1995–2000 was approximately 40 per 1000, which means that there was no major rise in child mortality in Iraq after sanctions were implemented.
posted by The Tensor at 1:51 PM on March 23, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by The Tensor at 1:51 PM on March 23, 2022 [16 favorites]
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This is a tough one. She was both a kind of an aspirational figure for me when I was young and ( maybe because of the fact that) she reminded me a bit of my grandmother, who passed away not long ago.
posted by thivaia at 2:17 PM on March 23, 2022
This is a tough one. She was both a kind of an aspirational figure for me when I was young and ( maybe because of the fact that) she reminded me a bit of my grandmother, who passed away not long ago.
posted by thivaia at 2:17 PM on March 23, 2022
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posted by jim in austin at 2:29 PM on March 23, 2022
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I loved her guest appearance on the TV show Madam Secretary (along with Hillary Clinton and Colin Powell)...I was only half watching the episode when suddenly Secretary Albright came on and it was a little surreal. Tea Loni had a nice remembrance on Twitter to her today referring to her as the OG M-Sec
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:32 PM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
I loved her guest appearance on the TV show Madam Secretary (along with Hillary Clinton and Colin Powell)...I was only half watching the episode when suddenly Secretary Albright came on and it was a little surreal. Tea Loni had a nice remembrance on Twitter to her today referring to her as the OG M-Sec
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:32 PM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
The FTC’s complaint implies that the luminaries who have been trotted out by Herbalife to attest to its integrity should hang their heads in shame. Among them is former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, who seems to have sold her soul to lobby for Herbalife internationally.
“I wouldn’t be here if I weren’t proud to be associated with Herbalife,” Albright told a company gathering in Europe in 2013, “and Herbalife wouldn’t be operating in more than 80 countries if it weren’t satisfying customers wherever it goes.” Albright touted Herbalife as a paragon of “corporate responsibility and community service,” and as an “ethics-driven company.”
FTC moves against Herbalife, but leaves a question: Why is this company still allowed in business? (LA Times, July 18, 2016)
I always thought it so strange that someone with her towering career would go on to shill for such a grimy outfit. Makes you wonder.
Peace to those she leaves behind, and to those whose lives she helped destroy under the banner of Pax Americana.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 2:41 PM on March 23, 2022 [18 favorites]
“I wouldn’t be here if I weren’t proud to be associated with Herbalife,” Albright told a company gathering in Europe in 2013, “and Herbalife wouldn’t be operating in more than 80 countries if it weren’t satisfying customers wherever it goes.” Albright touted Herbalife as a paragon of “corporate responsibility and community service,” and as an “ethics-driven company.”
FTC moves against Herbalife, but leaves a question: Why is this company still allowed in business? (LA Times, July 18, 2016)
I always thought it so strange that someone with her towering career would go on to shill for such a grimy outfit. Makes you wonder.
Peace to those she leaves behind, and to those whose lives she helped destroy under the banner of Pax Americana.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 2:41 PM on March 23, 2022 [18 favorites]
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posted by Silvery Fish at 2:44 PM on March 23, 2022
posted by Silvery Fish at 2:44 PM on March 23, 2022
Albright was instrumental in making sure that the Rwanda genocide wasn't declared and responded to as such. It wasn't just her call - the shame is Bill Clinton's and the reasons diverse - but from that moment on this is something which I cannot excuse nor support.
posted by doctornemo at 2:44 PM on March 23, 2022 [24 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 2:44 PM on March 23, 2022 [24 favorites]
She was raised a Roman Catholic and became Episcopalian, but while serving as Secretary of State, she discovered she was actually born Jewish.
Truly a remarkable career.
posted by Mchelly at 3:14 PM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
Truly a remarkable career.
posted by Mchelly at 3:14 PM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
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posted by Samuel Farrow at 3:36 PM on March 23, 2022
posted by Samuel Farrow at 3:36 PM on March 23, 2022
(Albright shilled for an MLM? Wow. That's bad.
Reminds me a bit of how George Schulz (Sec State for Reagan) was an Elizabeth Holmes - Theranos - supporter.)
posted by doctornemo at 3:46 PM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
Reminds me a bit of how George Schulz (Sec State for Reagan) was an Elizabeth Holmes - Theranos - supporter.)
posted by doctornemo at 3:46 PM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
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posted by JoeXIII007 at 3:54 PM on March 23, 2022
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posted by interogative mood at 4:06 PM on March 23, 2022
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posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 4:12 PM on March 23, 2022
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 4:12 PM on March 23, 2022
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posted by Joey Michaels at 4:15 PM on March 23, 2022
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:15 PM on March 23, 2022
Her charming appearance on Gilmore Girls.
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posted by Bee'sWing at 4:25 PM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
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posted by Bee'sWing at 4:25 PM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
Whether or not the figure of 500,000 child deaths is true is irrelevant as she was working under the assumption that it was true when she said "We think the price is worth it". The point is not the number but the absolutely fucked up foreign policy of the US that is revealed in her statement.
To me she was just another bloodthirsty piece of shit, shilling for the military industrial complex.
Good riddance.
posted by torii hugger at 4:53 PM on March 23, 2022 [35 favorites]
To me she was just another bloodthirsty piece of shit, shilling for the military industrial complex.
Good riddance.
posted by torii hugger at 4:53 PM on March 23, 2022 [35 favorites]
I'm not religious. I'm not a fan of Clintonian third way politics. I realize Madeline Albright's legacy is complicated at best. But damn it, I wish more people could internalize this sentiment: “I had this feeling that there but for the grace of God, we might have been dead."
If everybody on this planet, particularly the most privileged among us, could internalize the idea that they are where they are mostly by luck or chance, and then acted accordingly, the world would be a better place.
posted by mollweide at 5:45 PM on March 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
If everybody on this planet, particularly the most privileged among us, could internalize the idea that they are where they are mostly by luck or chance, and then acted accordingly, the world would be a better place.
posted by mollweide at 5:45 PM on March 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
For a while I worked in a building that was owned by a big real estate company in Palo Alto. They officed in the front and our technology company parked in the back, also where we entered and exited our rental via the backstairs to the second floor. Nice persimmon tree. Good view of the dumpster.
One day I saw an IBM 5150, a monochrome monitor and a keyboard in that dumpster Someone must have just upgraded to an AT! The ST-251 survived the toss and the PC booted right up when I set it up at home. It had been used by a secretary until just a couple of months before, and I was able to see the cash-only payroll and some other things.
One of those other things was a mailing list, with addresses and phone numbers of the great and good. I could tell that's what it was because the very first name on it was Albright, Madeline.
posted by the Real Dan at 5:53 PM on March 23, 2022 [11 favorites]
One day I saw an IBM 5150, a monochrome monitor and a keyboard in that dumpster Someone must have just upgraded to an AT! The ST-251 survived the toss and the PC booted right up when I set it up at home. It had been used by a secretary until just a couple of months before, and I was able to see the cash-only payroll and some other things.
One of those other things was a mailing list, with addresses and phone numbers of the great and good. I could tell that's what it was because the very first name on it was Albright, Madeline.
posted by the Real Dan at 5:53 PM on March 23, 2022 [11 favorites]
Whether or not the figure of 500,000 child deaths is true is irrelevant as she was working under the assumption that it was true
It seemed ridiculously high to me, a layperson, at the time. It's a classic "gotcha" question with a false premise, and trying to make it into her legacy is ridiculous. Those 500,000 children didn't die.
posted by The Tensor at 11:09 PM on March 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
It seemed ridiculously high to me, a layperson, at the time. It's a classic "gotcha" question with a false premise, and trying to make it into her legacy is ridiculous. Those 500,000 children didn't die.
posted by The Tensor at 11:09 PM on March 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
Albright was a feminist icon for people who think just having a woman ordering the starvation of Iraqi children is good enough. If your ambitions reach beyond just swapping out the genders of the ghouls governing us, you don't mourn her death.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:56 PM on March 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by MartinWisse at 11:56 PM on March 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
In Eastern Europe she's primarily remembered as the head mover behind getting Poland and Hungary into NATO, but I remember her as an example of a woman in power as well, one who didn't try to change her face or accommodate to current styles. We were immensely lucky that the person responsible for US foreign policy at the time was someone who really understood the local situation and how much that protection mattered. I wish she could have seen the resolution of this latest attempt to bring back the old geopolitical situation.
The other signatory to Poland's NATO accession treaty was Bronisław Geremek, a Polish Jew raised Catholic by his stepfather after his father perished in Auschwitz.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:58 AM on March 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
The other signatory to Poland's NATO accession treaty was Bronisław Geremek, a Polish Jew raised Catholic by his stepfather after his father perished in Auschwitz.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:58 AM on March 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
I don't believe there has ever been a US Secretary of State who wasn't directly or indirectly associated with or responsible for some truly horrible decisions. But I'm deeply uncomfortable with calling a Jewish woman "bloodthirsty."
posted by Mchelly at 7:10 AM on March 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 7:10 AM on March 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Whether or not the figure of 500,000 child deaths is true is irrelevant as she was working under the assumption that it was true
This is the exact inverse of the Ender Wiggin scenario (previously 😉); she believed she was responsible for much more death than she actually was, but still endorsed the choice.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:38 AM on March 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is the exact inverse of the Ender Wiggin scenario (previously 😉); she believed she was responsible for much more death than she actually was, but still endorsed the choice.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:38 AM on March 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
But I'm deeply uncomfortable with calling a Jewish woman "bloodthirsty."
I'm uncomfortable with the idea she can't be criticized based on factors outside of her words and actions. Do bad things, get called bad things.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:00 AM on March 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
I'm uncomfortable with the idea she can't be criticized based on factors outside of her words and actions. Do bad things, get called bad things.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:00 AM on March 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
But I'm deeply uncomfortable with calling a Jewish woman "bloodthirsty."
What?
At any rate, being the first woman to do the same shitty things as her predecessors isn't exactly a feminist flag on the mountain's peak. I don't get the unadulterated adulation for her, and the scorn for, say, Phyllis Schlafly on her death.
Who moved the needle more in this country? Whose hands had more blood on them? Who was more successful, by whichever metric is relevant to their respective fields of endeavor? I despised Schlafly, but also can't stomach the idea of Albright as a "pop culture feminist icon."
From my perspective, Albright was a Beltway policy wonk and insider who was frequently on the wrong side of issues and who made impactful decisions without being unduly troubled by their moral implications.
posted by the sobsister at 9:25 AM on March 24, 2022 [14 favorites]
What?
At any rate, being the first woman to do the same shitty things as her predecessors isn't exactly a feminist flag on the mountain's peak. I don't get the unadulterated adulation for her, and the scorn for, say, Phyllis Schlafly on her death.
Who moved the needle more in this country? Whose hands had more blood on them? Who was more successful, by whichever metric is relevant to their respective fields of endeavor? I despised Schlafly, but also can't stomach the idea of Albright as a "pop culture feminist icon."
From my perspective, Albright was a Beltway policy wonk and insider who was frequently on the wrong side of issues and who made impactful decisions without being unduly troubled by their moral implications.
posted by the sobsister at 9:25 AM on March 24, 2022 [14 favorites]
I'm uncomfortable with the idea she can't be criticized based on factors outside of her words and actions. Do bad things, get called bad things.
I don't think that the problem with "bloodthirsty" is that it's a criticism of her actions. I think that for Jews it may be evocative of the blood libel. Mchelly can correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt she would have the same issue if Albright had been called "complicit in or satisfied with the deaths of thousands", which I'm guessing carries the originally intended meaning of "bloodthirsty" without the anti-Semitic implications.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:47 AM on March 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I don't think that the problem with "bloodthirsty" is that it's a criticism of her actions. I think that for Jews it may be evocative of the blood libel. Mchelly can correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt she would have the same issue if Albright had been called "complicit in or satisfied with the deaths of thousands", which I'm guessing carries the originally intended meaning of "bloodthirsty" without the anti-Semitic implications.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:47 AM on March 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
Thanks, yes Jpfed. Saying Jews have a desire to drink blood is a longstanding anti-semitic trope.
I didn't quibble with the substance of the criticism, or calling her a "piece of shit,", and I'd argue that's far more critical.
posted by Mchelly at 10:49 AM on March 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
I didn't quibble with the substance of the criticism, or calling her a "piece of shit,", and I'd argue that's far more critical.
posted by Mchelly at 10:49 AM on March 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Nobody at that level is free from blame and she had access to far more information. I will credit her with working hard to do some good in a really difficult world and for having humor. Like a lot of women, I have a fondness for her.
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posted by theora55 at 3:10 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by theora55 at 3:10 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
sanctions are a hard issue that involve weighing many factors. right now in fact, there is a very tough question about who suffers from russia sanctions.
but high and mighty declarations reducing her to being a bloodthirsty tool of the military industrial complex, which is the comment that (depressingly yet unsurprisingly) gets the most likes on here, is a freshman year dorm room level of naive idiocy. it's an "i just read howard zinn for the first time" level of stupidity. not the poster- the comment.
posted by wibari at 10:17 PM on March 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
but high and mighty declarations reducing her to being a bloodthirsty tool of the military industrial complex, which is the comment that (depressingly yet unsurprisingly) gets the most likes on here, is a freshman year dorm room level of naive idiocy. it's an "i just read howard zinn for the first time" level of stupidity. not the poster- the comment.
posted by wibari at 10:17 PM on March 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
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posted by Katjusa Roquette at 3:32 AM on March 25, 2022
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 3:32 AM on March 25, 2022
I guess the nuanced problem is Albright's response has two interpretations. The military industrial complex one is that to even conceive of the question as one of price and then having the arrogance to decide on the value of lives is symptomatic of a systemic failure in political thought. It reduces humans to money, metaphorically, and that's callous. But another interpretation is that regardless of how the military industrial complex created such a situation, anyone in her position was faced with a type of trolley problem and forced to choose between, and thus effectively calculate and weigh, two sets of lives. You see this dual meaning in different guises, the ethics of consequences appearing as cold calculation versus the more radical questioning of how the dilemma arose in the first place.
posted by polymodus at 9:26 AM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by polymodus at 9:26 AM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Albright didn’t invade Kuwait and she didn’t make the decision to expel Saddam Hussein and Iraq by force in 1991. The US invasion of Iraq came after she left office.
A cursory search of Google finds that she repeatedly apologized for her “we think the price is worth statement.” Keep in mind that she was defending a sanctions program that had a oil for food component and that the deaths of Iraqi children from malnutrition was the result of Saddam taking money from that program to rearm and kill the marsh Arabs, Kurds and Shi’ite groups that opposed him. What was the alternative? Invade Iraq like Bush did in 2003? Let Saddam free from the sanctions so he could murder more people?
When Madeline Albright was Secretary of State she helped secure the Dayton Peace Accords that ended the war in Yugoslavia. She oversaw a Middle East peace process between Ehud Barak and Arafat that came agonizingly close to a real peace agreement. She and her fellow Clinton national security team recognized the growing threat of Al Qaeda and had a focus on it. She helped broker a deal with North Korea that had significantly limited their nuclear programs and seemed to be heading the US towards an end to that conflict. She also pushed to improve our relations with Iran. We managed to normalize relations with Vietnam and put a final, honorable end to that decades old conflict. Under her tenure the negotiations were completed that allows China to enter the global trading system and millions were lifted out of poverty in the prosperity that followed. Her team negotiated the first climate deal — the Kyoto Agreement.
Sadly within months of Bush being elected so much of that work was abandoned and wrecked. The progress made Russia on democracy and freedom ended as Bush got enamored of Putin and let him consolidate power unchecked. We lost focus on Al Qaeda and has 9/11. We imposed new sanctions of North Korea and they walked away from the nuclear agreement. All progress with Iran stopped and we went backwards for a decade. We ignored Kyoto and lost our chance to do something about climate change.
posted by interogative mood at 10:18 AM on March 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
A cursory search of Google finds that she repeatedly apologized for her “we think the price is worth statement.” Keep in mind that she was defending a sanctions program that had a oil for food component and that the deaths of Iraqi children from malnutrition was the result of Saddam taking money from that program to rearm and kill the marsh Arabs, Kurds and Shi’ite groups that opposed him. What was the alternative? Invade Iraq like Bush did in 2003? Let Saddam free from the sanctions so he could murder more people?
When Madeline Albright was Secretary of State she helped secure the Dayton Peace Accords that ended the war in Yugoslavia. She oversaw a Middle East peace process between Ehud Barak and Arafat that came agonizingly close to a real peace agreement. She and her fellow Clinton national security team recognized the growing threat of Al Qaeda and had a focus on it. She helped broker a deal with North Korea that had significantly limited their nuclear programs and seemed to be heading the US towards an end to that conflict. She also pushed to improve our relations with Iran. We managed to normalize relations with Vietnam and put a final, honorable end to that decades old conflict. Under her tenure the negotiations were completed that allows China to enter the global trading system and millions were lifted out of poverty in the prosperity that followed. Her team negotiated the first climate deal — the Kyoto Agreement.
Sadly within months of Bush being elected so much of that work was abandoned and wrecked. The progress made Russia on democracy and freedom ended as Bush got enamored of Putin and let him consolidate power unchecked. We lost focus on Al Qaeda and has 9/11. We imposed new sanctions of North Korea and they walked away from the nuclear agreement. All progress with Iran stopped and we went backwards for a decade. We ignored Kyoto and lost our chance to do something about climate change.
posted by interogative mood at 10:18 AM on March 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've never really thought the criticism of the Iraq sanctions held up to scrutiny very well. It wasn't Albright, or anyone in the US, who starved Iraqi children—if indeed any actually did, which seems to probably have been unlikely in any case. But if any did, that's on Saddam. It was his regime that made the decision to impoverish its citizenry in order to pay for weapons. As others have noted, the US even went out of the way to try and avoid this with the oil-for-food program, but there's no foolproof way to ensure that a dictator won't sell the food that's supposed to feed their citizens and use it to pay for weapons, gold-plated palace toilets, or just stuff it in a Swiss bank account. (Unless you're willing to get rid of the dictator, anyway.) This is a problem with allowing ruthless dictators to run countries.
I think this bears repeating, because in the near future we are probably going to see Putin do the exact same thing in Russia. Starving your own population—effectively stealing food from children's mouths in order to buy guns—and then blaming the starvation on the sanctions rather than the choice to buy guns, is pretty much right out of the Standard Psychopathic Dictator Playbook. Got sanctions? Time to starve some children and put 'em on TV.
Iraq had more than enough foreign exchange and aid to feed its population. If its government chose not to do that, that's just one more of the many offenses against the Iraqi people that should be laid at the feet of Saddam and the rest of the Iraq Ba'athists.
I sometimes think that some people on the American left have gotten so wrapped up in "the 2003 Invasion was a bad idea", that they have forgotten, or glossed over, just how fucking heinous the Saddam regime really was. They were not good people, either to their own people or to their neighbors, and the sanctions seem pretty justified then and now. Yes, it turned out that the only thing that eventually got Saddam out of Kuwait was a war, and the only thing that ended his reign in the end was another war (however ill-advised it may have been, particularly in terms of our consistent national over-estimation of our ability to stand up foreign governments like they're McDonalds franchises). But the use of sanctions as an alternative to, or at least an attempt to avoid, military action was, and is, correct.
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:04 PM on March 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
I think this bears repeating, because in the near future we are probably going to see Putin do the exact same thing in Russia. Starving your own population—effectively stealing food from children's mouths in order to buy guns—and then blaming the starvation on the sanctions rather than the choice to buy guns, is pretty much right out of the Standard Psychopathic Dictator Playbook. Got sanctions? Time to starve some children and put 'em on TV.
Iraq had more than enough foreign exchange and aid to feed its population. If its government chose not to do that, that's just one more of the many offenses against the Iraqi people that should be laid at the feet of Saddam and the rest of the Iraq Ba'athists.
I sometimes think that some people on the American left have gotten so wrapped up in "the 2003 Invasion was a bad idea", that they have forgotten, or glossed over, just how fucking heinous the Saddam regime really was. They were not good people, either to their own people or to their neighbors, and the sanctions seem pretty justified then and now. Yes, it turned out that the only thing that eventually got Saddam out of Kuwait was a war, and the only thing that ended his reign in the end was another war (however ill-advised it may have been, particularly in terms of our consistent national over-estimation of our ability to stand up foreign governments like they're McDonalds franchises). But the use of sanctions as an alternative to, or at least an attempt to avoid, military action was, and is, correct.
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:04 PM on March 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Hillary Clinton eulogizes Albright with an emphasis on Russia.
posted by doctornemo at 2:26 PM on March 25, 2022
posted by doctornemo at 2:26 PM on March 25, 2022
bloodthirsty : "What's the point of having this superb military you're always talking about if we can't use it?"
piece of shit : "We think the price is worth it."
posted by torii hugger at 6:42 PM on March 26, 2022
piece of shit : "We think the price is worth it."
posted by torii hugger at 6:42 PM on March 26, 2022
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posted by supermedusa at 1:08 PM on March 23, 2022