Wasting away in Margaritaville
March 25, 2022 2:38 PM Subscribe
That's weird. I'm not signed in and don't even have an account at The New Yorker, and the article is loading fine for me. But thanks for adding the alternative link.
posted by COD at 2:55 PM on March 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by COD at 2:55 PM on March 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I like the sense of community. But it's like, how much more bourgeois Boomer could this be? And the answer is none. None more bourgeois Boomer.
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:04 PM on March 25, 2022 [33 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:04 PM on March 25, 2022 [33 favorites]
>Open the gates to Margaritaville
It could be slightly more bourgeois Boomer if you were to open the David Gates to Margaritaville.
posted by rhizome at 4:19 PM on March 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
It could be slightly more bourgeois Boomer if you were to open the David Gates to Margaritaville.
posted by rhizome at 4:19 PM on March 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that in like 15-20 years there'll be a Goth/Maker/Burner version of this and I don't know whether to be excited or depressed.
posted by rivenwanderer at 4:59 PM on March 25, 2022 [46 favorites]
posted by rivenwanderer at 4:59 PM on March 25, 2022 [46 favorites]
Wait, is this a mild We've built the Torment Nexus situation?
posted by BrashTech at 5:02 PM on March 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by BrashTech at 5:02 PM on March 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Great read, unexpectedly tender. And makes me wonder: how can we keep finding community and collective joy as we age? My ideal would look very different than theirs, but centering joy and community as we age gets a strong yes for me.
posted by wemayfreeze at 5:04 PM on March 25, 2022 [49 favorites]
posted by wemayfreeze at 5:04 PM on March 25, 2022 [49 favorites]
I'm sure I would find this tedious in short order...
posted by jim in austin at 5:23 PM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 5:23 PM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think the mutual tolerance because constantly tipsy homophilia safe because golf carts instead of cars is a template that can be reskinned often. Burners, Halloween year-round, the 1950s again, 24/7 bridge. if it supports a convention it can probably support a Burbclave.
posted by clew at 5:45 PM on March 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by clew at 5:45 PM on March 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
The problem with this, like every enclave, is that the original inhabitants will enjoy 20-30 years there in comradery in the purpose for which it was built, and then the resell purchasers will come in at five times the original price and start demanding that everything must be changed, because it's ridiculous, and bad for home values.
The second wave here will be terrifying.
posted by halfbuckaroo at 6:22 PM on March 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
The second wave here will be terrifying.
posted by halfbuckaroo at 6:22 PM on March 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
Do they take Medicare?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:44 PM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:44 PM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
I expect you could change the soundtrack and the kitsch-flavor without unusual expense. The puzzle is, how are they going to handle the demographic transition to the, mm, much less active old?
I went looking for articles on how the right wing Villages handle that and found instead a different "Village" national network of, hm, vetted neighborliness overlays, and they’re already having that demographic problem.
posted by clew at 7:12 PM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
I went looking for articles on how the right wing Villages handle that and found instead a different "Village" national network of, hm, vetted neighborliness overlays, and they’re already having that demographic problem.
posted by clew at 7:12 PM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Zod knows what horrors await children of the 90s. Smashmouth's Hey Now You're a Homeowner. Maynard's Arizona Bay Resort. Robert Pollard's Gloomtown. Pavement's Range Life Lifestyle. HOA by TLC.
posted by credulous at 7:45 PM on March 25, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by credulous at 7:45 PM on March 25, 2022 [20 favorites]
This tossed-off aside is striking:
"Seeing the penguin exhibit at SeaWorld persuaded McChesney that he wanted to be a marine biologist. At San Diego State, for his senior project, he tried to align biological and geological eras. “Turned out, that time line doesn’t work. They were, like, ‘Are you a creationist?’ ” he said. He became a teacher instead, and spent more than thirty years at a middle school in the San Bernardino inner city, then a few more as a school administrator."
posted by Earthtopus at 7:54 PM on March 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
"Seeing the penguin exhibit at SeaWorld persuaded McChesney that he wanted to be a marine biologist. At San Diego State, for his senior project, he tried to align biological and geological eras. “Turned out, that time line doesn’t work. They were, like, ‘Are you a creationist?’ ” he said. He became a teacher instead, and spent more than thirty years at a middle school in the San Bernardino inner city, then a few more as a school administrator."
posted by Earthtopus at 7:54 PM on March 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
"Jollymon Way."?! yikes
posted by Earthtopus at 7:55 PM on March 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Earthtopus at 7:55 PM on March 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
> HOA by TLC.
Don't go changing water features. Please stick to the duck pond and the pool as defined within your Membership Agreement.
We know that you're gonna have it your way or nothing at all, but pool and spa areas are for the use of homeowner(s) or resident(s). Guests must be accompanied by a resident.
posted by glonous keming at 7:57 PM on March 25, 2022 [70 favorites]
Don't go changing water features. Please stick to the duck pond and the pool as defined within your Membership Agreement.
We know that you're gonna have it your way or nothing at all, but pool and spa areas are for the use of homeowner(s) or resident(s). Guests must be accompanied by a resident.
posted by glonous keming at 7:57 PM on March 25, 2022 [70 favorites]
I don’t know what the soundtrack will be but the furry retirement community probably will be the happiest place
posted by clew at 7:58 PM on March 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by clew at 7:58 PM on March 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
Smashmouth's Hey Now You're a Homeowner. Maynard's Arizona Bay Resort. Robert Pollard's Gloomtown. Pavement's Range Life Lifestyle. HOA by TLC.
There's a place some of us choose to live
Gated community - cops can't come in
A neighborhood for punks over the hill
We'll spend our golden years in Mattersville
posted by zamboni at 8:00 PM on March 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
There's a place some of us choose to live
Gated community - cops can't come in
A neighborhood for punks over the hill
We'll spend our golden years in Mattersville
posted by zamboni at 8:00 PM on March 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
Yikes continue; I cannot tell if the author thinks these anecdotes are charming or not, but I am skeptical.
“The women love the social part,”
...
"A point that residents kept making to me was the diversity of people, of backgrounds and talents. Chuck Danner likened the place to his men’s-league hockey team back in Pennsylvania, for the mix of blue- and white-collar guys."
...
"He said he’d just shot a nine-point elk in New Mexico with a rifle, from three hundred and twenty-five yards. “It was bleeding out on the fourth shot,” he said. “The guides paid an Indian kid to haul the elk out.”"
posted by Earthtopus at 8:02 PM on March 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
“The women love the social part,”
...
"A point that residents kept making to me was the diversity of people, of backgrounds and talents. Chuck Danner likened the place to his men’s-league hockey team back in Pennsylvania, for the mix of blue- and white-collar guys."
...
"He said he’d just shot a nine-point elk in New Mexico with a rifle, from three hundred and twenty-five yards. “It was bleeding out on the fourth shot,” he said. “The guides paid an Indian kid to haul the elk out.”"
posted by Earthtopus at 8:02 PM on March 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
I keep telling myself I will stop commenting and quoting the article directly, but this is straight up an early Childrens Hospital like C plot, this article is crazy. Missed 9/11 because called in hung over?!!
"Pete, sixty-six, a cop with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, had gone to Yankee Stadium the night of September 10th for a game that never got started, owing to foul weather. He wound up getting drunk at a bar in Manhattan, then, to his wife’s dismay, driving home to Jersey City. He called in sick. More than half of the officers in his squad died that day. “You don’t get over that,” he said, with tears streaming from beneath his sunglasses."
posted by Earthtopus at 8:05 PM on March 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
"Pete, sixty-six, a cop with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, had gone to Yankee Stadium the night of September 10th for a game that never got started, owing to foul weather. He wound up getting drunk at a bar in Manhattan, then, to his wife’s dismay, driving home to Jersey City. He called in sick. More than half of the officers in his squad died that day. “You don’t get over that,” he said, with tears streaming from beneath his sunglasses."
posted by Earthtopus at 8:05 PM on March 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that in like 15-20 years there'll be a Goth/Maker/Burner version of this and I don't know whether to be excited or depressed.
I would be more than happy to move into the Belle and Sebastian version, Bowlie Weekender forever.
Like my actual retirement plan is "starve to death in an abandoned bus in the woods", but drinking Pimm's Cup with people who remember the bad poetry on Sinister would be nicer.
posted by betweenthebars at 8:06 PM on March 25, 2022 [41 favorites]
I would be more than happy to move into the Belle and Sebastian version, Bowlie Weekender forever.
Like my actual retirement plan is "starve to death in an abandoned bus in the woods", but drinking Pimm's Cup with people who remember the bad poetry on Sinister would be nicer.
posted by betweenthebars at 8:06 PM on March 25, 2022 [41 favorites]
By the stars, betweenthebars, you've finally described a retirement community I might actually be able to deal with. Maybe Stuart can drop by occasionally and we could meditate with him.
posted by mollweide at 8:27 PM on March 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 8:27 PM on March 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
Do they have one of these for Grateful Dead fans?
posted by paulcole at 8:45 PM on March 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by paulcole at 8:45 PM on March 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Do they have one of these for Grateful Dead fans?
Yeah, they've had it for decades. The trick is to never stop touring.
posted by loquacious at 9:11 PM on March 25, 2022 [19 favorites]
Yeah, they've had it for decades. The trick is to never stop touring.
posted by loquacious at 9:11 PM on March 25, 2022 [19 favorites]
HOA by TLC.
And don't you think you're moving too fast. 17 MPH is way too fast.
posted by credulous at 9:18 PM on March 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
And don't you think you're moving too fast. 17 MPH is way too fast.
posted by credulous at 9:18 PM on March 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
The puzzle is, how are they going to handle the demographic transition to the, mm, much less active old?
Florida's already done it a few times. Most recently now that the golfing retirement is out, the golf courses are getting ripped out and replaced with regular subdivisions, the age restrictions on the older homes are going away (and sometimes they are being demolished en masse and replaced), and they're building new retirement communities out in the sticks because apparently retirees like to be isolated in their own bubbles far away from anything except a strip mall with a gas station, a bank, and a Publix.
In the past decade five of the six golf communities near my SO's parents' condo have had this happen. The one that remains was always targeted at a somewhat younger demographic with much larger houses, not just a golf course surrounded by typical tract homes. The cities are, of course, perfectly happy with this since they can put off the financial Armageddon for a few more years thanks to new tax revenue being around to pay for replacing all the 1960s and 1970s infrastructure. The long term effect is slightly positive, at least financially, since there is slightly increased density, but it's making traffic even worse on roads that simply can't get any bigger and it's still not dense enough to pay for ongoing maintenance in the long run.
Of course, in the only slightly longer run it's all going to be underwater in a very literal sense, so I guess it makes a certain amount of twisted sense to just push out the day of reckoning until it no longer matters. The rest of the state, and indeed most of the country, doesn't really have that luxury, though.
posted by wierdo at 9:22 PM on March 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Florida's already done it a few times. Most recently now that the golfing retirement is out, the golf courses are getting ripped out and replaced with regular subdivisions, the age restrictions on the older homes are going away (and sometimes they are being demolished en masse and replaced), and they're building new retirement communities out in the sticks because apparently retirees like to be isolated in their own bubbles far away from anything except a strip mall with a gas station, a bank, and a Publix.
In the past decade five of the six golf communities near my SO's parents' condo have had this happen. The one that remains was always targeted at a somewhat younger demographic with much larger houses, not just a golf course surrounded by typical tract homes. The cities are, of course, perfectly happy with this since they can put off the financial Armageddon for a few more years thanks to new tax revenue being around to pay for replacing all the 1960s and 1970s infrastructure. The long term effect is slightly positive, at least financially, since there is slightly increased density, but it's making traffic even worse on roads that simply can't get any bigger and it's still not dense enough to pay for ongoing maintenance in the long run.
Of course, in the only slightly longer run it's all going to be underwater in a very literal sense, so I guess it makes a certain amount of twisted sense to just push out the day of reckoning until it no longer matters. The rest of the state, and indeed most of the country, doesn't really have that luxury, though.
posted by wierdo at 9:22 PM on March 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
This was interesting, happy to have read it. But it definitely is a bit confused, it felt to me like the author thought it was going to be more of a takedown, but ended up liking the people more then expected? So it's a bit of a mix between those different poles.
posted by Carillon at 9:47 PM on March 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Carillon at 9:47 PM on March 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
what am i going to do when i am old, i have no kids, i have no family to take care of me, all i have is my friends that are into punk still. if anyone is into starting "Punk Crest Hills" or something lemme know, i can help with....bass playing and databases
posted by capnsue at 10:52 PM on March 25, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by capnsue at 10:52 PM on March 25, 2022 [17 favorites]
I think any article about coastal real estate needs to address "How long until this area is underwater?" But that never seems to happen. It almost makes more sense with older retirees who might hope to be dead first, but 55 year olds? I wouldn't count on that.
But then if you're half-sloshed all the time it's easier to ignore things.
Interesting that there was no mention of pot, you know there has to be a fair amount of it circulating.
posted by emjaybee at 10:55 PM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
But then if you're half-sloshed all the time it's easier to ignore things.
Interesting that there was no mention of pot, you know there has to be a fair amount of it circulating.
posted by emjaybee at 10:55 PM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Do they have one of these for Grateful Dead fans?
Mill Valley?
The parking lot of every show (150+) I have been to.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:22 PM on March 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
Mill Valley?
The parking lot of every show (150+) I have been to.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:22 PM on March 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think it was the critic Walter Jackson Bate who used the term "satire manqué" to describe Samuel Johnson: you expect the writer to satirize the subject, but in the end the writer's sympathy wins out and the expected satire modulates into geniality or at least understanding. I would apply this to a certain kind of New Yorker piece that goes back to the days when Ross was editing Thurber's piece about radio soaps in the 1940s. The perspective of the writer (and the implied reader, and me, the actual eldermillenial reader who is very proud of knowing Bob Dylan's birth name but also knows the words to A Pirate Looks at Forty) is very carefully mixed. The salt and sour of moral superiority and cultural condescension mixed with the sugary sweetness of a shared pop music pleasure and the intoxication of entertaining prose. A frosted concoction that keeps me subscribing.
posted by sy at 12:02 AM on March 26, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by sy at 12:02 AM on March 26, 2022 [13 favorites]
"NOW That's What I Call RETIREMENT" could be the facility for those agnostic about musical subgenre.
Also: I looked at the houses, that in-wall pest treatment system is dope as hell.
posted by credulous at 2:19 AM on March 26, 2022 [14 favorites]
Also: I looked at the houses, that in-wall pest treatment system is dope as hell.
posted by credulous at 2:19 AM on March 26, 2022 [14 favorites]
Y'all, if you're not going to move into my Jock Jams retirement community, you'll be missing out.
"Let's get ready to RETIIIRRRE..." followed by heart thumping music every time someone buys a villa?
Sign. Me. Up.
posted by champers at 3:27 AM on March 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
"Let's get ready to RETIIIRRRE..." followed by heart thumping music every time someone buys a villa?
Sign. Me. Up.
posted by champers at 3:27 AM on March 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
I for one burst out laughing in the end. This article has a distinct "ah, those cheeky rascals" vibe.
I do really admire the point about how perfectly the song dovetails thematically with the lifestyle. It really does! No wonder Disney was interested: Disney actually tries and FAILS to achieve this, imo, because (again, imo) nothing in the Disney parks comes close to the level of cohesion achieved between the song Margaritaville and the retirement community Margaritaville. I'm in awe. Truly a miracle of capitalism, and I mean that sincerely, earnestly, and not a tad of snideness above the absolutely unavoidable.
posted by MiraK at 5:35 AM on March 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
I do really admire the point about how perfectly the song dovetails thematically with the lifestyle. It really does! No wonder Disney was interested: Disney actually tries and FAILS to achieve this, imo, because (again, imo) nothing in the Disney parks comes close to the level of cohesion achieved between the song Margaritaville and the retirement community Margaritaville. I'm in awe. Truly a miracle of capitalism, and I mean that sincerely, earnestly, and not a tad of snideness above the absolutely unavoidable.
posted by MiraK at 5:35 AM on March 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
This was interesting, happy to have read it. But it definitely is a bit confused, it felt to me like the author thought it was going to be more of a takedown, but ended up liking the people more then expected? So it's a bit of a mix between those different poles.
I don’t mind that - I’d rather have at least some pieces that waffle rather than have to conclusively approve/disapprove of whatever they are observing. I don’t mind the other kind either, but I am very appreciative of less polarizing reporting being out there.
I was glad for the inclusion of the “white, like hockey” reference. And I found the section on the “paid by tax dollars, fled taxes” an interesting observation as well.
I will say that I could write a companion piece about my parents who, thanks to Covid, got cut off from their snowbird paradise and have had difficulty living in the world with working shlubs, but…ehn.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:53 AM on March 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
I don’t mind that - I’d rather have at least some pieces that waffle rather than have to conclusively approve/disapprove of whatever they are observing. I don’t mind the other kind either, but I am very appreciative of less polarizing reporting being out there.
I was glad for the inclusion of the “white, like hockey” reference. And I found the section on the “paid by tax dollars, fled taxes” an interesting observation as well.
I will say that I could write a companion piece about my parents who, thanks to Covid, got cut off from their snowbird paradise and have had difficulty living in the world with working shlubs, but…ehn.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:53 AM on March 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
Yeah, sure, it's all cool jams and chilling out until the pterodactyls come for you and your margaritas.
posted by Katemonkey at 6:28 AM on March 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Katemonkey at 6:28 AM on March 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
"NOW That's What I Call RETIREMENT" could be the facility for those agnostic about musical subgenre.
Coming Spring 2045: new neighborhood in "NOW That's What I Call RETIREMENT," meant for retirees whose adult children still live with them. Send in your deposit today to have your pick of tracts in KIDZ 'BURB.
posted by Mayor West at 6:47 AM on March 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
Coming Spring 2045: new neighborhood in "NOW That's What I Call RETIREMENT," meant for retirees whose adult children still live with them. Send in your deposit today to have your pick of tracts in KIDZ 'BURB.
posted by Mayor West at 6:47 AM on March 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
Not Metafilter: We’re interested in meeting other people. We like to have fun. We don’t want to be overly political. We like the idea of being happy.
posted by clawsoon at 6:48 AM on March 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 6:48 AM on March 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
Latitude Margaritaville came off both as an escape from America and as the most quintessentially American setting of all.
White, privileged, wealthy, suburbia?
Sorry if that comes off as cynical. Living, as I do, in the northern suburban sprawl of Indianapolis, I am no stranger to Parrotheads. They’re everywhere. They drive the biggest pickups and SUVs. Have “thin blue line” flags on poles outside their front doors. The dudes are ripped fat men, riding shiny, stupid-expensive Harleys. And, after doing their two-day party every summer when Buffet comes to town, they put their MAGA hats back on and go back to being “entrepreneurial” pricks. I’ve been to get-togethers with too many of them to fall for the artifice. They’ll sit back, sucking-down a drink, smoking a fat cigar, and tell you all about how the country is going to shit and it’s all on Biden and Pelosi.
Sorry if my experience differs from reality, but it is what it is. You could never get me interested in such a place, because I know so many of those people, and staying drunk with them 24-7 just isn’t my idea of a life goal.
And I fucking hate flip-flops.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:51 AM on March 26, 2022 [18 favorites]
White, privileged, wealthy, suburbia?
Sorry if that comes off as cynical. Living, as I do, in the northern suburban sprawl of Indianapolis, I am no stranger to Parrotheads. They’re everywhere. They drive the biggest pickups and SUVs. Have “thin blue line” flags on poles outside their front doors. The dudes are ripped fat men, riding shiny, stupid-expensive Harleys. And, after doing their two-day party every summer when Buffet comes to town, they put their MAGA hats back on and go back to being “entrepreneurial” pricks. I’ve been to get-togethers with too many of them to fall for the artifice. They’ll sit back, sucking-down a drink, smoking a fat cigar, and tell you all about how the country is going to shit and it’s all on Biden and Pelosi.
Sorry if my experience differs from reality, but it is what it is. You could never get me interested in such a place, because I know so many of those people, and staying drunk with them 24-7 just isn’t my idea of a life goal.
And I fucking hate flip-flops.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:51 AM on March 26, 2022 [18 favorites]
This article definitely reads like the author meant for it to be a scathing takedown of the commercialization of everything, but had a change of heart when he saw that it's basically a bunch of septuagenarians living their best lives in an actual community. Complicating it is the fact that he talks about the $450K price tag of these houses, in a way that I think was meant to make your eyebrows go up skeptically, but in fact just made me think "holy shit, three bedrooms and a garage in a walkable community? That'd be $1.8 million here, and we have to deal with snow removal."
posted by Mayor West at 6:52 AM on March 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 6:52 AM on March 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
Sorry if that comes off as cynical. Living, as I do, in the northern suburban sprawl of Indianapolis, I am no stranger to Parrotheads. They’re everywhere. They drive the biggest pickups and SUVs. Have “thin blue line” flags on poles outside their front doors. The dudes are ripped fat men, riding shiny, stupid-expensive Harleys. And, after doing their two-day party every summer when Buffet comes to town, they put their MAGA hats back on and go back to being “entrepreneurial” pricks. I’ve been to get-togethers with too many of them to fall for the artifice. They’ll sit back, sucking-down a drink, smoking a fat cigar, and tell you all about how the country is going to shit and it’s all on Biden and Pelosi.
Yeah, that’s more Indianapolis than Buffett. For some reason there’s a higher than average asshole quotient there. This has been confirmed to me by a number of folks covering multiple cities in the Midwest. No clue why.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:59 AM on March 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
Yeah, that’s more Indianapolis than Buffett. For some reason there’s a higher than average asshole quotient there. This has been confirmed to me by a number of folks covering multiple cities in the Midwest. No clue why.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:59 AM on March 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
The fact that this is the second similar article I've seen in a few weeks (the other in the NYT) makes me think there's a market for articles painting boomers as decadent assholes who care only for their own pleasure. There were letters from the community depicted in the NYT article pointing out that the author ignored all of the charitable organizations that are also a part of that community - maybe not the kind of activism some MeFites would want, but it wasn't just the 24/7 party the article depicted. It does seem like this author had more of a change of heart after meeting the people, which is nice.
To be clear, I am 63, and I cannot imagine choosing to live in a place like this (aside from just not liking Jimmy Buffet's music). I'm looking at housing in my target area (SLC) now, and I don't even want to live in what's called an over-55 community. I think age segregation is pernicious, and my ideal neighborhood would include a mix of ages and be a place where I can be a neighborhood granny. Maybe I'll watch your kids and you'll shovel my walk. Maybe I'll bring you cookies or pay your teenager to weed my garden. Maybe you'll notice you haven't seen me lately and call to make sure I'm OK. (This probably sounds kind of idealized, but I think that's unfortunate too - that used to be what a neighborhood was.)
posted by FencingGal at 7:14 AM on March 26, 2022 [23 favorites]
To be clear, I am 63, and I cannot imagine choosing to live in a place like this (aside from just not liking Jimmy Buffet's music). I'm looking at housing in my target area (SLC) now, and I don't even want to live in what's called an over-55 community. I think age segregation is pernicious, and my ideal neighborhood would include a mix of ages and be a place where I can be a neighborhood granny. Maybe I'll watch your kids and you'll shovel my walk. Maybe I'll bring you cookies or pay your teenager to weed my garden. Maybe you'll notice you haven't seen me lately and call to make sure I'm OK. (This probably sounds kind of idealized, but I think that's unfortunate too - that used to be what a neighborhood was.)
posted by FencingGal at 7:14 AM on March 26, 2022 [23 favorites]
I want interviews with grocery store workers in Margaritaville vs. the Villages.
posted by clawsoon at 7:31 AM on March 26, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 7:31 AM on March 26, 2022 [23 favorites]
If you thought the Margaritaville article was interesting, you might enjoy this 2020 documentary about The Villages: Some Kind of Heaven. It follows four residents of the Villages and focuses on why they came and what they are looking for.
posted by BlueTongueLizard at 7:52 AM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by BlueTongueLizard at 7:52 AM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
This was interesting, happy to have read it. But it definitely is a bit confused, it felt to me like the author thought it was going to be more of a takedown, but ended up liking the people more then expected? So it's a bit of a mix between those different poles.
I'm trying to get better at writing essays - I hope for eventual publication - so I'm reading a lot about essays, and one idea I'm running into that really appeals to me is the essay as a place for exploration - that as the essay proceeds and the writer explores ideas, there may be a shift in understanding that is conveyed to the reader (I think I heard Philip Lopate talk about this in a podcast, but I'm not 100% sure it was him). I find this idea very appealing, and I think that's a bit of what happened here.
The NYT article I reference above was more of a "I went looking for decadent horrible boomers, and by gum, I found them" and I think it's not nearly as good as an essay, partly because of that.
(Yes, I'm probably conflating essay and article, but I had chemo yesterday, and I kind of feel like shit, so I'm not going to tease it out right now.)
posted by FencingGal at 8:05 AM on March 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'm trying to get better at writing essays - I hope for eventual publication - so I'm reading a lot about essays, and one idea I'm running into that really appeals to me is the essay as a place for exploration - that as the essay proceeds and the writer explores ideas, there may be a shift in understanding that is conveyed to the reader (I think I heard Philip Lopate talk about this in a podcast, but I'm not 100% sure it was him). I find this idea very appealing, and I think that's a bit of what happened here.
The NYT article I reference above was more of a "I went looking for decadent horrible boomers, and by gum, I found them" and I think it's not nearly as good as an essay, partly because of that.
(Yes, I'm probably conflating essay and article, but I had chemo yesterday, and I kind of feel like shit, so I'm not going to tease it out right now.)
posted by FencingGal at 8:05 AM on March 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
This post got me listening to some Jimmy Buffett songs, which got me wondering why he wouldn't want Anita Bryant to cover any of his songs, which got me wondering who Anita Bryant is.
posted by clawsoon at 8:07 AM on March 26, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 8:07 AM on March 26, 2022
In Robert Pollard's Gloomtown community, all of the homes look more or less the same but have elaborate fanciful names. Professor Radio's Acid Ranch. Goldheart Mountaintop Queen Rectory.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:14 AM on March 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:14 AM on March 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
If you thought the Margaritaville article was interesting, you might enjoy this 2020 documentary about The Villages: Some Kind of Heaven. It follows four residents of the Villages and focuses on why they came and what they are looking for.
This was really good. It doesn't engender the loathing that the recent NYT article does; the subjects are carefully humanized. Also, you see a guy on the margins, an old burnout who lives out of his van and weasels himself into the restaurants and amenities by fast-talking and getting girlfriends. It appears he's been doing this in one way or another since the '70s or '80s, and his age just changed the location. As much as you dislike him, it's important to see the side of Boomer aging that he represents.
I like the Margaritaville article better, but it fills me with sadness. We can joke about band names, but Gen X and Millennials, by and large, are not going to be living like this, at least not in a way that can be sold as a package of pure enjoyment. It's anyone's guess as to how we will be living, except that it won't be very nice for most of us at all.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:17 AM on March 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
This was really good. It doesn't engender the loathing that the recent NYT article does; the subjects are carefully humanized. Also, you see a guy on the margins, an old burnout who lives out of his van and weasels himself into the restaurants and amenities by fast-talking and getting girlfriends. It appears he's been doing this in one way or another since the '70s or '80s, and his age just changed the location. As much as you dislike him, it's important to see the side of Boomer aging that he represents.
I like the Margaritaville article better, but it fills me with sadness. We can joke about band names, but Gen X and Millennials, by and large, are not going to be living like this, at least not in a way that can be sold as a package of pure enjoyment. It's anyone's guess as to how we will be living, except that it won't be very nice for most of us at all.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:17 AM on March 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
It's actually immaterial what entertainment iconography Gens X, Y, and Z might want to name their planned retirement communities after, since our generations mostly won't get to retire and will work until we die.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:19 AM on March 26, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:19 AM on March 26, 2022 [15 favorites]
So glad this got posted to MeFi. I read the New Yorker on my bus commute and this took 2.5+ bus rides this past week for me to get through the whole thing, and I loved every minute of it.
I am an absolute fiend for journalism covering The Villages, and went into this expecting more of the same. It was not, and in fact it was quite earnest and sympathetic. I was fascinated by the discussion of how many former public sector workers from northern cities ended up there, and what this means for the tax base of the places they left behind. I'm from Cincinnati and the Parrothead thing is absolutely a thing here, and I feel like I wouldn't be surprised if one of my friends told me their parents just bought a place in one of these Margaritaville communities. At least it seems like a way more fun place to visit than the Villages.
As an elderly millennial who spends a lot of time stewing in quiet rage at the scale of the bullshit mess that white, financially-secure boomers have left for everyone else to clean up (climate change, income inequality, the long shadow of "greed is good" hollowing out of civic institutions), this article left me feeling less like "fuck these assholes" and more like "if you remove the crass commercialism and self-sorting homogeneity, we all deserve to live in communities in which we get to just enjoy being together every day."
posted by mostly vowels at 8:19 AM on March 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
I am an absolute fiend for journalism covering The Villages, and went into this expecting more of the same. It was not, and in fact it was quite earnest and sympathetic. I was fascinated by the discussion of how many former public sector workers from northern cities ended up there, and what this means for the tax base of the places they left behind. I'm from Cincinnati and the Parrothead thing is absolutely a thing here, and I feel like I wouldn't be surprised if one of my friends told me their parents just bought a place in one of these Margaritaville communities. At least it seems like a way more fun place to visit than the Villages.
As an elderly millennial who spends a lot of time stewing in quiet rage at the scale of the bullshit mess that white, financially-secure boomers have left for everyone else to clean up (climate change, income inequality, the long shadow of "greed is good" hollowing out of civic institutions), this article left me feeling less like "fuck these assholes" and more like "if you remove the crass commercialism and self-sorting homogeneity, we all deserve to live in communities in which we get to just enjoy being together every day."
posted by mostly vowels at 8:19 AM on March 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
Near the end of the article, the author mentions going to a Buffett concert where almost no one, including him, is wearing a mask, and then concludes with, "Five days later, I had COVID, and I couldn’t get the chorus of “Margaritaville” out of my head." It's sort of nice when the article tl;drs itself.
posted by xedrik at 8:23 AM on March 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by xedrik at 8:23 AM on March 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
I believe Nomadland is the version for the many Boomers who aren't affluent.
Also, if this discussion turns into "Boomers are terrible," I am going to have to nope out. I was afraid to even look at this thread, and up until now, it's been a pleasant surprise. I know that blatant ageism is acceptable on MetaFilter, so this is a losing battle in terms of the site (and the reason I frequently contemplate dropping out altogether), but no, I did not destroy the world for you, though I know the media gets a lot of clicks from younger people by saying that I did. The world was not perfect when we got it - in a lot of ways it was worse, especially in terms of racism and sexism - and I did not "vote as a bloc" as I'm frequently told I did, to make your life hard. Also, just for the record, I'll also be working until I die.
posted by FencingGal at 8:29 AM on March 26, 2022 [28 favorites]
Also, if this discussion turns into "Boomers are terrible," I am going to have to nope out. I was afraid to even look at this thread, and up until now, it's been a pleasant surprise. I know that blatant ageism is acceptable on MetaFilter, so this is a losing battle in terms of the site (and the reason I frequently contemplate dropping out altogether), but no, I did not destroy the world for you, though I know the media gets a lot of clicks from younger people by saying that I did. The world was not perfect when we got it - in a lot of ways it was worse, especially in terms of racism and sexism - and I did not "vote as a bloc" as I'm frequently told I did, to make your life hard. Also, just for the record, I'll also be working until I die.
posted by FencingGal at 8:29 AM on March 26, 2022 [28 favorites]
Having lived in Annapolis, I associate Parrotheads with the folks who would park their hundreds of thousands of dollars boat at the City Dock and then walk up the street to Oceans II Records and complain to my (now) spouse about the price of Jimmy Buffett cds. I was fascinated to see that these neighborhoods are not on the water or centered around #boatlife.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:39 AM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by hydropsyche at 8:39 AM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
e can joke about band names, but Gen X and Millennials, by and large, are not going to be living like this, at least not in a way that can be sold as a package of pure enjoyment. It's anyone's guess as to how we will be living, except that it won't be very nice for most of us at all.
it's funny...I had that curve of thinking too but then where I got to was...some Boomers, beset by marketing and their own self-blindness, think that you have to have this kind of Disneyfied, asceptic environment to experience community.
Like, I recognize the kind of pleasure they are taking in it, but for me the booze-soaked cruise-like atmosphere is a kind of hell. (I've done it with my Boomer parents on cruises and the divorce from culture/place/time/other people/strife makes my skin crawl after 4 days, never mind months.) But, being biased, it makes me think that the actual joy they have is rooted in a) financial security, b) leisure and pursuing the things they love - which include active, outdoor things that keep them healthy and c) community. The design of the community supports that. It's safe to walk and bike and golf cart around, for example.
That makes me kind of rededicated to trying to create that for, like, everyone, so that you don't have to run away to a Floridian, themed, lalaland to do it. Speaking for all Gen-X, meaning myself, I'm good to not do it in Margaritaville (edit for cat hitting delete:).
posted by warriorqueen at 8:39 AM on March 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
it's funny...I had that curve of thinking too but then where I got to was...some Boomers, beset by marketing and their own self-blindness, think that you have to have this kind of Disneyfied, asceptic environment to experience community.
Like, I recognize the kind of pleasure they are taking in it, but for me the booze-soaked cruise-like atmosphere is a kind of hell. (I've done it with my Boomer parents on cruises and the divorce from culture/place/time/other people/strife makes my skin crawl after 4 days, never mind months.) But, being biased, it makes me think that the actual joy they have is rooted in a) financial security, b) leisure and pursuing the things they love - which include active, outdoor things that keep them healthy and c) community. The design of the community supports that. It's safe to walk and bike and golf cart around, for example.
That makes me kind of rededicated to trying to create that for, like, everyone, so that you don't have to run away to a Floridian, themed, lalaland to do it. Speaking for all Gen-X, meaning myself, I'm good to not do it in Margaritaville (edit for cat hitting delete:).
posted by warriorqueen at 8:39 AM on March 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
In Robert Pollard's Gloomtown community, all of the homes look more or less the same but have elaborate fanciful names.
They're all called #2 In The Model Home Series
posted by credulous at 8:47 AM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
They're all called #2 In The Model Home Series
posted by credulous at 8:47 AM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Fencing Gal, I apologize. I should have been more specific.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:51 AM on March 26, 2022
posted by Countess Elena at 8:51 AM on March 26, 2022
I work with a Parrothead (he has an official tattoo!) and his vibe is definitely Aging Hippie. He isn't a MAGA type at all.
Land of contrasts, etc
posted by emjaybee at 8:59 AM on March 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
Land of contrasts, etc
posted by emjaybee at 8:59 AM on March 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
...since our generations mostly won't get to retire and will work until we die.
Trust me, there are plenty of boomers in the same boat as y’all. We just get ignored by the media (and employers) because we represent reality, and that doesn’t sell clicks/ads/beach homes nearly as well as the “retire early and buy a vineyard” fantasy that seems to be the common media image of boomers.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:03 AM on March 26, 2022 [14 favorites]
Trust me, there are plenty of boomers in the same boat as y’all. We just get ignored by the media (and employers) because we represent reality, and that doesn’t sell clicks/ads/beach homes nearly as well as the “retire early and buy a vineyard” fantasy that seems to be the common media image of boomers.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:03 AM on March 26, 2022 [14 favorites]
I liked this piece, but I didn't love it, and I think it was about 25% too long. It could have had some more aggressive editing to make the criticisms sharper while still maintaining the overall tone of "I hated these people a lot less than I expected." The part about earning retirement in one state and taking your wealth to a different one was clear, but I felt like the bits about the overall "no politics" vibe were meant as a criticism of intentional blithe ignorance, but then left too much for the reader to fill in.
On retirement communities in general, my in-laws bought a house in an "active retirement" community in Arizona. Before his health declined too much my father-in-law was active in his particular community's board, and he had lots of scoop on how the Phase 1 part of the development got itself into financial trouble. A sizable group of the original Phase 1 owners were active golfers and there was too much contention over tee times, so they exercised their rights to spin their Phase, along with its golf course and clubhouse, out into a separate legal entity that allowed them to manage their golf course in a way that prioritized their own access (the issues with access to pickleball courts in the Margaritaville article seem a sort of parallel here). As that original group died off the cost of golf course maintenance was spread over a smaller number of owners, and potential new owners (especially the ones who didn't golf) were scared off by the extra costs compared to the rest of the larger community. My mother-in-law doesn't pay as much attention to that part of the gossip, but it seems "no golf" is a pretty smart financial move all around.
posted by fedward at 9:12 AM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
On retirement communities in general, my in-laws bought a house in an "active retirement" community in Arizona. Before his health declined too much my father-in-law was active in his particular community's board, and he had lots of scoop on how the Phase 1 part of the development got itself into financial trouble. A sizable group of the original Phase 1 owners were active golfers and there was too much contention over tee times, so they exercised their rights to spin their Phase, along with its golf course and clubhouse, out into a separate legal entity that allowed them to manage their golf course in a way that prioritized their own access (the issues with access to pickleball courts in the Margaritaville article seem a sort of parallel here). As that original group died off the cost of golf course maintenance was spread over a smaller number of owners, and potential new owners (especially the ones who didn't golf) were scared off by the extra costs compared to the rest of the larger community. My mother-in-law doesn't pay as much attention to that part of the gossip, but it seems "no golf" is a pretty smart financial move all around.
posted by fedward at 9:12 AM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
there's a market for articles painting boomers as decadent assholes who care only for their own pleasure
There are sponsors for these articles: the financiers who know how profitable it was to privatize pensions and who want to do the same to Social Security. The people who will suffer from this are a lot younger than the Boomers.
posted by clew at 9:43 AM on March 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
There are sponsors for these articles: the financiers who know how profitable it was to privatize pensions and who want to do the same to Social Security. The people who will suffer from this are a lot younger than the Boomers.
posted by clew at 9:43 AM on March 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
I can't see the New Yorker investigating how regular people are going to retire- we're not going to end up in one geographical site for convenient summing up. A friend just decided to retire a year earlier than he had intended. The pandemic has been hard on him; his brother committed suicide; his father-in-law and mother died from COVID (which, as a Trump supporter, he had disregarded). He has lived with constant pain after a youthful motorcycle accident; his doctors prescribed opioids. After many years of addiction, he decided to go off them. He had bought a big farm so that when he retired, he could have a nursery, but now the physical costs of manual labor seem impossible to overcome. He's gotten into emotionally exhausting squabbles with relatives over the properties of the people who died, and while teleworking was hard on him, coming back to work seems like an endless vista of stress, and he decided he'd rather not face it. He deserves an article about how everything just drifted out of reach, but he's not going to get it.
posted by acrasis at 9:50 AM on March 26, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by acrasis at 9:50 AM on March 26, 2022 [10 favorites]
This is an older/mixed community option I'd like to consider
Maybe with optional fashion options!
posted by Mesaverdian at 10:00 AM on March 26, 2022
Maybe with optional fashion options!
posted by Mesaverdian at 10:00 AM on March 26, 2022
I think age segregation is pernicious, and my ideal neighborhood would include a mix of ages and be a place where I can be a neighborhood granny.
FencingGal, thanks for your reminder above for people to be careful about painting an entire generation with a broad brush, as well as this excellent comment of yours. This is a point I think about a lot too, living in a very multi-generational neighborhood. It's a point I've never really seen grappled with in coverage of these retirement communities.
What is it about these communities that the residents who live in them love (Margaritaville, the Villages) that makes the absence of anyone younger seem so alluring? Is it an extension of the bubble that also cuts across class and racial lines? Does the absence of other generations contribute to the utopian allure, because you'll never have to worry about being asked to babysit or sharing the pool with kids? For some of the residents who have been lifelong caregivers, is it a reprieve that they feel like they no longer have to do any caregiving?
Although the folks at the Villages and Margaritaville are still living independently, those who live long enough will get to a point where they can no longer live independently. Then where do they go? To me everything about this is a larger indictment of the state of caregiving in the US and the logical end state of hyper individualism. We either assume each family nuclear unit will figure it out on their own (usually with some unpaid caregiving labor), or if you have the money, you buy your way into a system. I am not a parent, but when I was faced with eldercare decisions for my 80+ father, I was struck by how many caregiving parallels I shared with friends who are parents of young children.
posted by mostly vowels at 10:34 AM on March 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
FencingGal, thanks for your reminder above for people to be careful about painting an entire generation with a broad brush, as well as this excellent comment of yours. This is a point I think about a lot too, living in a very multi-generational neighborhood. It's a point I've never really seen grappled with in coverage of these retirement communities.
What is it about these communities that the residents who live in them love (Margaritaville, the Villages) that makes the absence of anyone younger seem so alluring? Is it an extension of the bubble that also cuts across class and racial lines? Does the absence of other generations contribute to the utopian allure, because you'll never have to worry about being asked to babysit or sharing the pool with kids? For some of the residents who have been lifelong caregivers, is it a reprieve that they feel like they no longer have to do any caregiving?
Although the folks at the Villages and Margaritaville are still living independently, those who live long enough will get to a point where they can no longer live independently. Then where do they go? To me everything about this is a larger indictment of the state of caregiving in the US and the logical end state of hyper individualism. We either assume each family nuclear unit will figure it out on their own (usually with some unpaid caregiving labor), or if you have the money, you buy your way into a system. I am not a parent, but when I was faced with eldercare decisions for my 80+ father, I was struck by how many caregiving parallels I shared with friends who are parents of young children.
posted by mostly vowels at 10:34 AM on March 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
What is it about these communities that the residents who live in them love (Margaritaville, the Villages) that makes the absence of anyone younger seem so alluring? Is it an extension of the bubble that also cuts across class and racial lines? Does the absence of other generations contribute to the utopian allure...?
We live in a mixed-generation, mixed-culture suburban neighborhood. That dynamic was a real selling point for us. We’re easily one of the oldest couples here.
That said, it would be nice to see a few more faces like ours. It’s just a comfort to occasionally see someone you can directly relate to. You feel more a part of the community, rather than the elder everyone thought had already passed and are surprised to see out on a walk.
That, that said, I cannot imagine living in a community where the only people there are like me, especially if they’re living in a perpetual beachcomber cosplay, as in Margaritaville.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:53 AM on March 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
We live in a mixed-generation, mixed-culture suburban neighborhood. That dynamic was a real selling point for us. We’re easily one of the oldest couples here.
That said, it would be nice to see a few more faces like ours. It’s just a comfort to occasionally see someone you can directly relate to. You feel more a part of the community, rather than the elder everyone thought had already passed and are surprised to see out on a walk.
That, that said, I cannot imagine living in a community where the only people there are like me, especially if they’re living in a perpetual beachcomber cosplay, as in Margaritaville.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:53 AM on March 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
it would be nice to see a few more faces like ours. […]
That, that said, I cannot imagine living in a community where the only people there are like me
There was a post recently on how not-strong the "people like me" instinct has to be to lead to self segregated neighborhoods.
Age segregation to this degree has to be pretty novel, yes? Avoiding school taxes, but also we’ve gone really hard on the consumerist construction of identity and quick fashion cycles, which helps sort us into generations on its own.
posted by clew at 12:33 PM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
That, that said, I cannot imagine living in a community where the only people there are like me
There was a post recently on how not-strong the "people like me" instinct has to be to lead to self segregated neighborhoods.
Age segregation to this degree has to be pretty novel, yes? Avoiding school taxes, but also we’ve gone really hard on the consumerist construction of identity and quick fashion cycles, which helps sort us into generations on its own.
posted by clew at 12:33 PM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
If only Hunter Thompson could have held it together and realized the how to monetize the brand - a hundred thousand acres of the front range could be the anti-Margaritaville.
posted by thecincinnatikid at 12:48 PM on March 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by thecincinnatikid at 12:48 PM on March 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
I was fascinated by this article. I'm about 50% horrified by the thought of living there, and 50% envious. Living in a community where I can walk all over the place, easily meet up with friends, go to classes, get a charter bus to take me to events with said friends: yes please. But it seems like these people drink as much in a day as I do in a month, so I think I'd get bored pretty quickly. I would've liked a peek at that AA meeting, unless it was just a joke line.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:02 PM on March 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:02 PM on March 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
> Have “thin blue line” flags on poles outside their front doors..
The article touches on that: There was at least one golf cart flying the blue-line American flag, in support of the police. Some rolled their eyes when it passed; others waved.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:04 PM on March 26, 2022
The article touches on that: There was at least one golf cart flying the blue-line American flag, in support of the police. Some rolled their eyes when it passed; others waved.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:04 PM on March 26, 2022
A Millennial retirement village would be Harry Potter themed
posted by airmail at 1:06 PM on March 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by airmail at 1:06 PM on March 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
There was an interesting discussion in a recent Pivot episode about retirement communities. While these branded ones seem awful in some ways, there's a benefit: you know what you're getting. There aren't the well known national chains like there are of, say, hotels, so basically each person (or their adult children) has to do the research for themselves. At least with the Margaritaville associations, you know what to expect.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:13 PM on March 26, 2022
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:13 PM on March 26, 2022
I've been cogitating on your comment, weirdo, and I don't get where the new civic money is coming from. The new developments in the sticks? Does taking off the age restrictions on the oldest developments raise their prices again? Does the municipality have to put in schools, or do kids there get bussed a far way?
And where did the people who aged out of these houses but didn't die go? Especially if their houses are likely to get razed and they didn't get care-home money out of them?
posted by clew at 1:56 PM on March 26, 2022
And where did the people who aged out of these houses but didn't die go? Especially if their houses are likely to get razed and they didn't get care-home money out of them?
posted by clew at 1:56 PM on March 26, 2022
Anyone want to collaborate with me on a post about non-segregated alternatives? I found one, there must be others, and the allure of making neighborhood traffic less deadly is large. Maybe the Barcelona superblocks count.
posted by clew at 2:04 PM on March 26, 2022
posted by clew at 2:04 PM on March 26, 2022
I've been cogitating on your comment, weirdo, and I don't get where the new civic money is coming from.
Property tax on several hundred houses is a lot more than it is for a golf course. Plus the developers end up having to replace a lot of infrastructure either directly or through impact fees that the city would otherwise be on the hook for in the near future, allowing that new revenue to subsidize the neighborhoods where new development isn't happening.
It's still a net negative in the long run, but as we've been proving for 70 years now, nobody gives a shit about that. Plus we here in coastal south florida are a special case where there's a good chance the bill won't ever have to be paid because it'll all inevitably turn back into a swamp when sea level rises enough to make the drainage canals quit working, which will happen well before the actual ocean covers everything.
posted by wierdo at 2:32 PM on March 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
Property tax on several hundred houses is a lot more than it is for a golf course. Plus the developers end up having to replace a lot of infrastructure either directly or through impact fees that the city would otherwise be on the hook for in the near future, allowing that new revenue to subsidize the neighborhoods where new development isn't happening.
It's still a net negative in the long run, but as we've been proving for 70 years now, nobody gives a shit about that. Plus we here in coastal south florida are a special case where there's a good chance the bill won't ever have to be paid because it'll all inevitably turn back into a swamp when sea level rises enough to make the drainage canals quit working, which will happen well before the actual ocean covers everything.
posted by wierdo at 2:32 PM on March 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
It is impressive, in that American way, how Buffett steered from there to here—from struggling singer-songwriter whom no one ever called the next Bob Dylan to surefire arena act and hospitality conglomerateur. A poor man’s Gordon Lightfoot grows into a drinking man’s Martha Stewart, hardly having to change his tune.That’s some great writing.
posted by Mchelly at 5:56 PM on March 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
I don’t associate Gordon Lightfoot with the upper crust, though. Am I missing something?
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:39 PM on March 26, 2022
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:39 PM on March 26, 2022
This is about so much more: "...a kind of subliminal indoctrination into the blurred line between the wild and the tame, the pristine and the industrialized." I would add between the genuine and the kitsch, the hopeful and the crassly commercial; somewhere between I want and a shudder; America in a particular (coco)nutshell. Great writing, sensitive, subtle, best of the genre.
posted by blue shadows at 11:41 PM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by blue shadows at 11:41 PM on March 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don’t associate Gordon Lightfoot with the upper crust, though. Am I missing something?
It’s an idiom. Poor man’s x:
It’s an idiom. Poor man’s x:
—used to refer to someone (such as a performer) who is like another person in some ways but not as talented or successfulposted by zamboni at 7:03 AM on March 27, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm about 50% horrified by the thought of living there, and 50% envious. Living in a community where I can walk all over the place, easily meet up with friends, go to classes, get a charter bus to take me to events with said friends: yes please.
This is exactly my reaction whenever I read one of these articles about these kinds of boomer retirement places. Walkable (or golf cart-able) layout, and facilitating connections and sociality seems like such a delightful contrast with the standard housing situation in the US. But I would want it to come with diversity and inclusion -- not just of race/ethnicity/sexuality/etc, but I also want to be around young people as I get older. Right now I have friends my own age who have children, and I really treasure the time I get to spend with their kids. A community that specifically excludes not just younger adults, but also children, seems depressing to me.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:06 AM on March 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
This is exactly my reaction whenever I read one of these articles about these kinds of boomer retirement places. Walkable (or golf cart-able) layout, and facilitating connections and sociality seems like such a delightful contrast with the standard housing situation in the US. But I would want it to come with diversity and inclusion -- not just of race/ethnicity/sexuality/etc, but I also want to be around young people as I get older. Right now I have friends my own age who have children, and I really treasure the time I get to spend with their kids. A community that specifically excludes not just younger adults, but also children, seems depressing to me.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:06 AM on March 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
I think I would find a community like this entertaining for about a week, after that, the days would blend together too much.
I'd also be sad if the elders on my street packed up for a Margaritaville.
My town has the breadth of life.
There's often someone popping onto a porch to have a chat while we watch my daughter jump in puddles. If the college crowd only wanted to talk to college crowd, or the seniors to seniors, or the parents to parents, so much knowledge and fun would be lost.
posted by champers at 11:48 AM on March 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'd also be sad if the elders on my street packed up for a Margaritaville.
My town has the breadth of life.
There's often someone popping onto a porch to have a chat while we watch my daughter jump in puddles. If the college crowd only wanted to talk to college crowd, or the seniors to seniors, or the parents to parents, so much knowledge and fun would be lost.
posted by champers at 11:48 AM on March 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh, I know the idiom, but I felt the “drinking man’s Martha Stewart” meant it was to be taken more literally—they are drinking men, after all.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:53 PM on March 27, 2022
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:53 PM on March 27, 2022
I worked for a decade a couple of miles down the road from the one they built in "HIlton Head", only it's not in Hilton Head, it's in Hardeeville, in Jasper County, SC, one of the poorest counties in a state full of them. It's 20+ miles from Hilton Head. A few miles down the road closer to Hilton Head there's a huge Sun City retirement community, with a demographic more like that in The Villages. A few years ago Sun City residents had a really high rate of sexually transmitted diseases. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the Latitude communities have equal or higher rates.
posted by mareli at 6:14 PM on March 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mareli at 6:14 PM on March 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
I felt the “drinking man’s Martha Stewart” meant it was to be taken more literally
Then I suspect you didn’t miss anything other than a New Yorker writing flourish. There’s probably a fancy rhetorical term for this structure where the first usage is figurative, the second literal.
posted by zamboni at 6:28 PM on March 27, 2022
Then I suspect you didn’t miss anything other than a New Yorker writing flourish. There’s probably a fancy rhetorical term for this structure where the first usage is figurative, the second literal.
posted by zamboni at 6:28 PM on March 27, 2022
Re Sun City: maybe that’s why the writer presumed the man and two women making out at the show were from The Villages.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:12 PM on March 27, 2022
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:12 PM on March 27, 2022
It's still a net negative in the long run, but as we've been proving for 70 years now, nobody gives a shit about that
It's not that nobody cares, it's that nobody gets the voice and choice and that taxes at the municipal level are just not that clear cut such that density actually decreases taxes (or conversely lack of density increases taxes). If it did, it would probably be an easier sell.
And over 55/specialized HOA-governed communities are the only ones where golf courts and walking is actually tolerated. It's so rare that it has to be specially constructed. And as was mentioned up thread, is not particularly expensive.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:30 AM on March 28, 2022
It's not that nobody cares, it's that nobody gets the voice and choice and that taxes at the municipal level are just not that clear cut such that density actually decreases taxes (or conversely lack of density increases taxes). If it did, it would probably be an easier sell.
And over 55/specialized HOA-governed communities are the only ones where golf courts and walking is actually tolerated. It's so rare that it has to be specially constructed. And as was mentioned up thread, is not particularly expensive.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:30 AM on March 28, 2022
If you thought the Margaritaville article was interesting, you might enjoy this 2020 documentary about The Villages: Some Kind of Heaven.
It's a nice insight into the Village people.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:24 AM on March 28, 2022
It's a nice insight into the Village people.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:24 AM on March 28, 2022
Nibbling on taters
Flagging the haters
All of those new posts on which MeFites toiled
Clicking on new links
Hoping for high jinks
Watch out for tempers
Beginning to boil
Wasted away again in MetaFilterville
Scanning cats is considered assault
Some people claim that the cabal is to blame
But I know
It’s crouton petters’ fault
posted by carmicha at 12:22 PM on March 28, 2022 [13 favorites]
Flagging the haters
All of those new posts on which MeFites toiled
Clicking on new links
Hoping for high jinks
Watch out for tempers
Beginning to boil
Wasted away again in MetaFilterville
Scanning cats is considered assault
Some people claim that the cabal is to blame
But I know
It’s crouton petters’ fault
posted by carmicha at 12:22 PM on March 28, 2022 [13 favorites]
It’s crouton petters’ fault
I would also have accepted paphnuty.
posted by zamboni at 12:29 PM on March 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
I would also have accepted paphnuty.
posted by zamboni at 12:29 PM on March 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
over 55/specialized HOA-governed communities are the only ones where golf courts and walking is actually tolerated.
The article said the Margaritavilles are planning some where families were allowed (required?). Do you suppose those will also be golf-cart-and-walking safe? Not having to drive kids everywhere seems like a sales pitch to *me*.
posted by clew at 1:35 PM on March 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
The article said the Margaritavilles are planning some where families were allowed (required?). Do you suppose those will also be golf-cart-and-walking safe? Not having to drive kids everywhere seems like a sales pitch to *me*.
posted by clew at 1:35 PM on March 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that in like 15-20 years there'll be a Goth/Maker/Burner version of this and I don't know whether to be excited or depressed.
"This morning Bauhaus will be showing us how to build a catios on our verandas. In the lounge after lunch, part 3 of our ongoing Delta Green campaign, and Chittany, you need to bring back those dice that we all saw you put in your purse last week along with the silverware and those half-sucked mints you said you were saving 'for later'. Then we'll fortify ourselves with absinthe jello shots and go on down to the pond to feed frozen vegetables the geese, and probably fuck."
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:55 PM on March 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
"This morning Bauhaus will be showing us how to build a catios on our verandas. In the lounge after lunch, part 3 of our ongoing Delta Green campaign, and Chittany, you need to bring back those dice that we all saw you put in your purse last week along with the silverware and those half-sucked mints you said you were saving 'for later'. Then we'll fortify ourselves with absinthe jello shots and go on down to the pond to feed frozen vegetables the geese, and probably fuck."
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:55 PM on March 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
“And remember the monthly singles mixer, ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart,’ has been moved to the Phase 3 clubhouse to accommodate crowds. The dress code is, as always, black, like our hearts.”
posted by fedward at 5:03 PM on March 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by fedward at 5:03 PM on March 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
The goth place will not be constructed well:
All the taps drip drip drip drip drip under the strip lights.
But the neighborhood will have gutters so we can go right back where we came from.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:00 PM on March 29, 2022
All the taps drip drip drip drip drip under the strip lights.
But the neighborhood will have gutters so we can go right back where we came from.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:00 PM on March 29, 2022
I think any article about coastal real estate needs to address "How long until this area is underwater?"
I think any article about coastal real estate needs to address, "How many hurricanes do we get until this area is underwater?"
FTFY.
posted by halfbuckaroo at 7:01 AM on March 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think any article about coastal real estate needs to address, "How many hurricanes do we get until this area is underwater?"
FTFY.
posted by halfbuckaroo at 7:01 AM on March 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
tbf I thought all the Margaritavilles were pointedly several miles inland, to be cheap? One of the couples interviewed keeps making clear that they gave up oceanfront to move there.
... oh. the floods are going miles inland now? Yeesh.
posted by clew at 4:39 PM on March 31, 2022
... oh. the floods are going miles inland now? Yeesh.
posted by clew at 4:39 PM on March 31, 2022
The article's closing mention of Covid made me wonder how hard the pandemic's been hitting this place. An older population, who seem the types to be reluctant about masking up (and maybe about getting vaccinated too?), on the one hand versus a largely outdoor lifestyle on the other. Addressing that point would have been worth a few pars at least.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:20 AM on April 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Paul Slade at 11:20 AM on April 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
« Older Dismissal for any homosexual conduct was a "custom... | Some gotta win, some gotta lose Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by chavenet at 2:49 PM on March 25, 2022