A Bookstore Revival Channels Nostalgia for Big Box Chains
March 30, 2022 8:07 AM Subscribe
I am happy to discuss this kind of article - I have Very Strong But Largely Unmoralized Opinions.
So okay:
Why do we have nostalgia for these shops that were, by many rubrics, worse than the bookstores we have now? More generic, more plastic, less curated, less authentic.
Well actually, the Borders and Waterstones in my area in the nineties were miles better, simply streets ahead, of the bookstores we have today. And the reason was this: they had a large selection that was not carefully curated. Maybe you wanted one of Sarah Schulman's novels that came out five or six years ago - well, Borders had lots of shelf space and believed in filling it rather than elegantly displaying about a third of what the shelf would hold, so you would actually find four or five of her books instead of just the most recent one. Maybe you were interested in nature writing - instead of a handful of expensive contemporary books with exactly the au courant attitudes, guaranteed to sell and be replaced by the next big thing in a few months, there was a selection.
For instance, I remember the very day that I bought a slightly battered Book of the Month Club hardback of Radical Utopias, a 1990 reissue of Triton, The Female Man and Walk To The End of the World. I could not have bought it before 1992 and it was probably more like 1994. What was a BOMC hardback doing in Borders? Not the foggiest! But it was on a table, there were several copies and it had escaped pulping for years. And all three novels were published in the mid-seventies, so while all three were by famous writers, none were new.
That book was totally critical for me - I don't think I really read it until 1997, when I was a skilled enough reader for it, but it was foundational SF reading and really got me into both Delany and Russ. (All three novels are experimental and, in different ways, a bit difficult if you're used to standard SF narration.)
I live near not one but two fancy, hip, curated bookstores with science fiction sections. I doubt that I could find any novel by Russ, Delany or McKee Charnas - possibly Delany's latest. Of course, it's thirty years later so that's a bit unfair - we'd really be looking for big, important SF novels by marginalized SF writers from twenty years ago rather than work from the seventies. But you still couldn't find any! You find a small number of currently fashionable SF books, one per author unless the author is a bestseller with lots of recent books. And it's the same in literature and triple in non-fiction.
This is half the fault of rent but half the fault of ideology - you do have a lot of shelf space at the mall and you don't have a lot of shelf space in your average city storefront. But I've been to a lot of fashionable independent city bookstores since the nineties and they've all been like that - beautiful, open, lots of pale wood, very chichi coffee and pastries...and hardly any books.
I mean, it's not worth going there to browse - you can browse the whole place in fifteen minutes. At my old Borders and Waterstones, you really could spend time there, but that didn't make a lot of money any more than lingering over a cup of coffee does.
Anyway! Hopefully, the stupid, horrible swing toward intense privatization via the internet will unswing a bit if a critical mass of people start to remember that being out in public can be worldbeatingly annoying but not even having the option is a lot worse.
posted by Frowner at 8:30 AM on March 30, 2022 [57 favorites]
So okay:
Why do we have nostalgia for these shops that were, by many rubrics, worse than the bookstores we have now? More generic, more plastic, less curated, less authentic.
Well actually, the Borders and Waterstones in my area in the nineties were miles better, simply streets ahead, of the bookstores we have today. And the reason was this: they had a large selection that was not carefully curated. Maybe you wanted one of Sarah Schulman's novels that came out five or six years ago - well, Borders had lots of shelf space and believed in filling it rather than elegantly displaying about a third of what the shelf would hold, so you would actually find four or five of her books instead of just the most recent one. Maybe you were interested in nature writing - instead of a handful of expensive contemporary books with exactly the au courant attitudes, guaranteed to sell and be replaced by the next big thing in a few months, there was a selection.
For instance, I remember the very day that I bought a slightly battered Book of the Month Club hardback of Radical Utopias, a 1990 reissue of Triton, The Female Man and Walk To The End of the World. I could not have bought it before 1992 and it was probably more like 1994. What was a BOMC hardback doing in Borders? Not the foggiest! But it was on a table, there were several copies and it had escaped pulping for years. And all three novels were published in the mid-seventies, so while all three were by famous writers, none were new.
That book was totally critical for me - I don't think I really read it until 1997, when I was a skilled enough reader for it, but it was foundational SF reading and really got me into both Delany and Russ. (All three novels are experimental and, in different ways, a bit difficult if you're used to standard SF narration.)
I live near not one but two fancy, hip, curated bookstores with science fiction sections. I doubt that I could find any novel by Russ, Delany or McKee Charnas - possibly Delany's latest. Of course, it's thirty years later so that's a bit unfair - we'd really be looking for big, important SF novels by marginalized SF writers from twenty years ago rather than work from the seventies. But you still couldn't find any! You find a small number of currently fashionable SF books, one per author unless the author is a bestseller with lots of recent books. And it's the same in literature and triple in non-fiction.
This is half the fault of rent but half the fault of ideology - you do have a lot of shelf space at the mall and you don't have a lot of shelf space in your average city storefront. But I've been to a lot of fashionable independent city bookstores since the nineties and they've all been like that - beautiful, open, lots of pale wood, very chichi coffee and pastries...and hardly any books.
I mean, it's not worth going there to browse - you can browse the whole place in fifteen minutes. At my old Borders and Waterstones, you really could spend time there, but that didn't make a lot of money any more than lingering over a cup of coffee does.
Anyway! Hopefully, the stupid, horrible swing toward intense privatization via the internet will unswing a bit if a critical mass of people start to remember that being out in public can be worldbeatingly annoying but not even having the option is a lot worse.
posted by Frowner at 8:30 AM on March 30, 2022 [57 favorites]
This article feels weird to me. I’m the right age — I have tons of nostalgia for the 90s — but not this.
Mostly I think it’s that all these positive memories, third place hangouts people mention, I don’t associate with the mall or bookstore. For me, all of those feelings are for my public library. Maybe it’s that I grew up with zero spending money.
posted by Monochrome at 8:45 AM on March 30, 2022 [14 favorites]
Mostly I think it’s that all these positive memories, third place hangouts people mention, I don’t associate with the mall or bookstore. For me, all of those feelings are for my public library. Maybe it’s that I grew up with zero spending money.
posted by Monochrome at 8:45 AM on March 30, 2022 [14 favorites]
As to the non-book sales in these stores. I think we are dealing with the movie theater phenomenon. Someone here pointed out awhile back, that bookstores do not make much money from selling books. The margins for them are really low. So they sell all that other stuff to actually make some money. The mefite suggested that you also buy some non-book item while you are there to help support the store. Movie theater phenomenon? Theaters don’t make any money on the films they show. They only make it from the popcorn, etc. Hence cafes in bookstores. Coffee is a real high margin item.
posted by njohnson23 at 8:49 AM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 8:49 AM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
third place hangouts people mention, I don’t associate with the mall or bookstore. For me, all of those feelings are for my public library.
Yeah, this seems wrong. Mall bookstores didn't have seating, so I don't think people would call them 'third-spaces'. Reading a snippet involved sitting on the floor which wasn't generally condoned, but certainly wasn't encouraged, like Barnes N Noble did with chairs and wider aisles.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:51 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yeah, this seems wrong. Mall bookstores didn't have seating, so I don't think people would call them 'third-spaces'. Reading a snippet involved sitting on the floor which wasn't generally condoned, but certainly wasn't encouraged, like Barnes N Noble did with chairs and wider aisles.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:51 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
When I was growing up (70s, 80s), every mall had a bookstore. Now they were small, with only a couple of sections of SF, but they were there. They were pretty much killed off by B&N and Borders, but I didn't care, because they were huge, and you could just graze. Borders was great, because they had Planet Music, which was awesome. I'd spend $100 a pop there on CDs by groups that looked interesting.
Now, Borders is gone, and B&N is a shadow of its old glory, and Half Price has closed something like half their stores around here. Books a Million's still doing OK, and there are a couple of local stores doing all right, but most malls don't have any stores. Is it better than the 80s? Probably. Worse than the 90s. Definately.
At least when I've gone to Barnes & Noble, the staff have been really helpful.
posted by Spike Glee at 8:56 AM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
Now, Borders is gone, and B&N is a shadow of its old glory, and Half Price has closed something like half their stores around here. Books a Million's still doing OK, and there are a couple of local stores doing all right, but most malls don't have any stores. Is it better than the 80s? Probably. Worse than the 90s. Definately.
At least when I've gone to Barnes & Noble, the staff have been really helpful.
posted by Spike Glee at 8:56 AM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
Having worked at a Barnes and noble I wish them nothing but the worst. Easily the most demeaning and demoralizing job I've had and I've done sewage cleanup.
"Maybe we shouldn't keep taking returns from the woman who is clearly masturbating to these romance novels, getting fluids on the book and is getting off from making employees handle them."
"No you have to keep taking them, we want to provide good customer experience"
At least small bookstores have less corporate bullshit that prevents you from keeping out the creeps and boy howdy do creeps love bookstores.
posted by Ferreous at 9:10 AM on March 30, 2022 [14 favorites]
"Maybe we shouldn't keep taking returns from the woman who is clearly masturbating to these romance novels, getting fluids on the book and is getting off from making employees handle them."
"No you have to keep taking them, we want to provide good customer experience"
At least small bookstores have less corporate bullshit that prevents you from keeping out the creeps and boy howdy do creeps love bookstores.
posted by Ferreous at 9:10 AM on March 30, 2022 [14 favorites]
Surprised and pleased to see my local independent mentioned. I'm very grateful that Schuler Books survived the big-box bookstore boom (when we also had a local B&N that had a great children's section just when I had some great children), the bookstore bust, and the pandemic. It's a solid bookstore with a good cafe.
posted by Well I never at 9:12 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Well I never at 9:12 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
And the relentless fucking push to sell memberships, God those fucking things made no sense for 99% of customers and people hated the hard sell but I think most of what managers did and was harass employees for not spending 5 minutes trying to goad customers into buying a fucking membership.
posted by Ferreous at 9:14 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 9:14 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
I mean, Borders wasn't a chain to start with. When I was growing up, it was the independent bookstore of all Michigan, and employed many of the semi-unemployable nerds of Ann Arbor.
posted by praemunire at 9:22 AM on March 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 9:22 AM on March 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
Other highlights:
Management refusing to ban the guy who kept smearing shit around the bathroom and writing hate speech all over the bathroom walls, instead preferring to make employees clean up the mess.
Being told to not do real tech support for older e-readers and to try and sell a new one.
The classic wage theft of being told you can't leave after you clock out at closing till everything in the store is done, but you absolutely have to clock out at closing time for the public.
And generally being told to lie to customers about what and when we could get things for them to make sales and then getting thrown under the bus when those things didn't happen.
posted by Ferreous at 9:23 AM on March 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
Management refusing to ban the guy who kept smearing shit around the bathroom and writing hate speech all over the bathroom walls, instead preferring to make employees clean up the mess.
Being told to not do real tech support for older e-readers and to try and sell a new one.
The classic wage theft of being told you can't leave after you clock out at closing till everything in the store is done, but you absolutely have to clock out at closing time for the public.
And generally being told to lie to customers about what and when we could get things for them to make sales and then getting thrown under the bus when those things didn't happen.
posted by Ferreous at 9:23 AM on March 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
"Maybe we shouldn't keep taking returns from the woman who is clearly masturbating to these romance novels, getting fluids on the book and is getting off from making employees handle them."
This is a genderswap from the usual but I suppose it shouldn't surprise me.
I'm old enough to remember when chain bookstores were the end of the world for independent bookstores and thus for independent thought. This did not end up happening in either case, but it was expected any day by the chattering classes. I'm particularly thinking about Alison Bechdel's DTWOF, a strip about a lesbian bookstore, in which it was a running concern.
Anyway, I don't mean to be nostalgic for these places; it's just that Frowner has a point. To readers in the South and other places they offered something valuable with their expanded selection. Independent bookstores have to reflect the local community standards to a certain extent, and where those are dull or oppressive, you get issues. Of course they can special-order you something, but that requires that you know it exists -- harder before the internet. I got all kinds of strange new ideas from the shelves of a Borders or B. Dalton or Waldenbooks, some of which changed my life for good.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:25 AM on March 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
This is a genderswap from the usual but I suppose it shouldn't surprise me.
I'm old enough to remember when chain bookstores were the end of the world for independent bookstores and thus for independent thought. This did not end up happening in either case, but it was expected any day by the chattering classes. I'm particularly thinking about Alison Bechdel's DTWOF, a strip about a lesbian bookstore, in which it was a running concern.
Anyway, I don't mean to be nostalgic for these places; it's just that Frowner has a point. To readers in the South and other places they offered something valuable with their expanded selection. Independent bookstores have to reflect the local community standards to a certain extent, and where those are dull or oppressive, you get issues. Of course they can special-order you something, but that requires that you know it exists -- harder before the internet. I got all kinds of strange new ideas from the shelves of a Borders or B. Dalton or Waldenbooks, some of which changed my life for good.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:25 AM on March 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
This is a genderswap from the usual but I suppose it shouldn't surprise me.
I think it was mostly because they weren't accepting returns for the skin mags they sold there. The funniest thing tbh was that porno magazines were referred to as a category as "sophisticates" which is honestly so absurd as to be comical.
posted by Ferreous at 9:29 AM on March 30, 2022 [8 favorites]
I think it was mostly because they weren't accepting returns for the skin mags they sold there. The funniest thing tbh was that porno magazines were referred to as a category as "sophisticates" which is honestly so absurd as to be comical.
posted by Ferreous at 9:29 AM on March 30, 2022 [8 favorites]
My brother took my son to Schulers and the kid was entranced in this age of Amazonning the paperback or letting him go hog wild on the Kindle.
posted by BlunderingArtist at 9:32 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by BlunderingArtist at 9:32 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think I was both lucky enough to work for a different chain than Ferreous, and also in a slightly different era than the article focuses on. My last job as a high school student/first job as a university student was at a Coopersmith's, itself an outright oddity. Known nationwide as Brentanno's, due to local trademark issues, the upscale-ish side of Waldenbooks had to go by a different name in the Chicago area. It was, from, say, fall of 1994 to sometime in 1996, the best job I've ever had, and the job I feel the most heartfelt warmth towards.
I mean, yeah, it was a terrible mall job. Yeah, the manager that hired me quit two weeks after I started (the question, "how are you at dealing with change in the workplace?" aimed at an 18 year old, should have been a sign). Yeah, the sort of kind of replacement manager who would stop by every week or so to sort the books, while managing their own Waldenbooks store in a different mall ended up in prison on grand theft larceny charges over the Waldenbook's reader cards (he and his wife were evidently going back in and retroactively signing up customers who'd qualified for the card, but declined to sign up, and collecting and cashing out the cashback rewards coupons, to the tune of several thousand dollars). But damn, it was a great job, with a fantastic discount.
The best, and by best, I mean, oh, dear god, why hast thou forsaken me part was getting an incredibly thick envelope at work one day, and being told to take it home and read over it.
Being the oh-my-god-how-stupid-was-I teenager that I was, I promptly forgot it. When I was off at college, my aunt came across it, and opened it up. The next weekend I came home, she pulled it out, and said that, in cases like this, it would have been a good idea to mention things like the envelope to the rest of the family. What I had completely ignored were the employee stock option plans for the Borders group ahead of their (incredibly successful, for a while, at least) IPO.
Yes, had I been less dumb, had I opened said envelope and brought it to my aunt and uncle, there's every chance the no one in my family would ever have had to work again.
Oops. Still, great job.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:41 AM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
I mean, yeah, it was a terrible mall job. Yeah, the manager that hired me quit two weeks after I started (the question, "how are you at dealing with change in the workplace?" aimed at an 18 year old, should have been a sign). Yeah, the sort of kind of replacement manager who would stop by every week or so to sort the books, while managing their own Waldenbooks store in a different mall ended up in prison on grand theft larceny charges over the Waldenbook's reader cards (he and his wife were evidently going back in and retroactively signing up customers who'd qualified for the card, but declined to sign up, and collecting and cashing out the cashback rewards coupons, to the tune of several thousand dollars). But damn, it was a great job, with a fantastic discount.
The best, and by best, I mean, oh, dear god, why hast thou forsaken me part was getting an incredibly thick envelope at work one day, and being told to take it home and read over it.
Being the oh-my-god-how-stupid-was-I teenager that I was, I promptly forgot it. When I was off at college, my aunt came across it, and opened it up. The next weekend I came home, she pulled it out, and said that, in cases like this, it would have been a good idea to mention things like the envelope to the rest of the family. What I had completely ignored were the employee stock option plans for the Borders group ahead of their (incredibly successful, for a while, at least) IPO.
Yes, had I been less dumb, had I opened said envelope and brought it to my aunt and uncle, there's every chance the no one in my family would ever have had to work again.
Oops. Still, great job.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:41 AM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
So - in my experience, growing-up - mall bookstores were tiny here in Canada.
This was my experience here in the US as well. The Waldenbooks at the local mall was claustrophobic with tall shelves and tightly packed aisles that were sometimes obstructed by random stacks of "For Dummies..." books left out in the open because there wasn't anywhere to shelve them. When Barnes and Noble came to town with a standalone location, it was bigger and had a cafe, but it would still feel cramped compared to the Borders. Borders came several years after B&N and they had an extra-wide store full of low shelves you could see over and lots of chairs and spaces to just chill. It felt more modern and third-spacey, and it wasn't a surprise that shortly after Borders arrived, Barnes and Noble did what they could within their existing footprint to emulate Borders.
It really surprised me how much Amazon's physical bookstore reminded me of Waldenbooks and not Borders. Tall shelves packed tightly together with very little space to break up the stacks and only the most basic of cafes with no seating. Everything was just so uncomfortable, and it just seemed weird that Amazon would completely overlook the past 20 years of chain development and open a bland, claustrophobic mall book store. But maybe that oversight is what contributed to their recent closure?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:47 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
This was my experience here in the US as well. The Waldenbooks at the local mall was claustrophobic with tall shelves and tightly packed aisles that were sometimes obstructed by random stacks of "For Dummies..." books left out in the open because there wasn't anywhere to shelve them. When Barnes and Noble came to town with a standalone location, it was bigger and had a cafe, but it would still feel cramped compared to the Borders. Borders came several years after B&N and they had an extra-wide store full of low shelves you could see over and lots of chairs and spaces to just chill. It felt more modern and third-spacey, and it wasn't a surprise that shortly after Borders arrived, Barnes and Noble did what they could within their existing footprint to emulate Borders.
It really surprised me how much Amazon's physical bookstore reminded me of Waldenbooks and not Borders. Tall shelves packed tightly together with very little space to break up the stacks and only the most basic of cafes with no seating. Everything was just so uncomfortable, and it just seemed weird that Amazon would completely overlook the past 20 years of chain development and open a bland, claustrophobic mall book store. But maybe that oversight is what contributed to their recent closure?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:47 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Yeah, probably even b&n would have been better in that era. I was there in the early 2010s and they were failing to deal with Amazon in any meaningful way and seemed to be putting all their effort into terrible schemes to basically try and be like Amazon except they cost more, and you had have an employee order for you and then go to the store and wait in line to pick things up and the ordering system was often completely wrong wrt availability.
posted by Ferreous at 9:50 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Ferreous at 9:50 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also a massive fucking "world" music section that was continuously getting larger and new releases yet never moved stock. That one was confounding. Who the fuck is like "shit yeah, we're going to sell so much Celtic thunder, Gregorian chants, and Peruvian pan flute music on cd in 201X"
posted by Ferreous at 9:55 AM on March 30, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 9:55 AM on March 30, 2022 [8 favorites]
Reiterating what Frowner said, I love my local bookstore, I go to author readings and buy the hardcovers, I kill trees to buy from them rather than consuming much more practical ebooks, but I had to ask them to order the N. K. Jemisin Broken Earth series, while Ready Player One and Ready Player Two are on the shelf.
Nowadays my discovery is done on the Internet. No more wandering through the stacks of vaguely related topics going "oooh, that looks cool", now it's puzzling through Amazon reviews and trying to figure out what of those are gamed, before calling up Copperfield's.
Sure, there are staff recommendations, but, let's face it, I live in a town in a county and I love the staff, but they haven't had a lot of life experience outside of this culture.
posted by straw at 9:56 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Nowadays my discovery is done on the Internet. No more wandering through the stacks of vaguely related topics going "oooh, that looks cool", now it's puzzling through Amazon reviews and trying to figure out what of those are gamed, before calling up Copperfield's.
Sure, there are staff recommendations, but, let's face it, I live in a town in a county and I love the staff, but they haven't had a lot of life experience outside of this culture.
posted by straw at 9:56 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
5 yrs at a 90s indy shop. I'll never have anything good to say about amazon or big book.
posted by j_curiouser at 10:13 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 10:13 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
My experience of the big box chain bookstore, Chapters, was coloured by the fact that there wasn't one in my hometown. There wasn't any bookstore, actually, we had to go the next town over for the small-town main street bookstore with an incredibly limited selection.
Going to Chapters was an event, we drove ~3hrs into the city specifically to go there. It had more books than the local(ish) independent bookstore and the local library combined, easily, like not even close. It was also the only time we ever went to Starbucks.
I now live in that city and whenever I'm on the west end, where that specific Chapters is (still), I get a little nostalgic for book shopping in the 90s and our massive hauls of books -- basically everything we were going to read as a family for the next 6 months in one trip
posted by selenized at 10:15 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Going to Chapters was an event, we drove ~3hrs into the city specifically to go there. It had more books than the local(ish) independent bookstore and the local library combined, easily, like not even close. It was also the only time we ever went to Starbucks.
I now live in that city and whenever I'm on the west end, where that specific Chapters is (still), I get a little nostalgic for book shopping in the 90s and our massive hauls of books -- basically everything we were going to read as a family for the next 6 months in one trip
posted by selenized at 10:15 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
MetaFilter: employed many of the semi-unemployable nerds of Ann Arbor.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:24 AM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:24 AM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
I'd like to see a piece done in this style just about the "For Dummies" books.
It's like all of a sudden the world has a lot fewer dummies, or the ones it does have have just stopped reading books.
posted by 7segment at 10:40 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's like all of a sudden the world has a lot fewer dummies, or the ones it does have have just stopped reading books.
posted by 7segment at 10:40 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was lucky enough to spend my childhood in a place with pretty excellent local bookshops (and for a few critical junior high/high school years when my parents first divorced, I lived across the street from my favorite on the weekends), which meant I pretty much only went to the Waldenbooks in the mall during middle school to shoplift bodice rippers and whatever other books I was embarrassed to be seen buying (sorry, Waldenbooks, sorry, Historical Romance Authors).
But when I ended up in a new south sprawl for college and the only decent indie closed shortly thereafter? Borders was a lifesaver. Borders carried all the Kathy Acker. They carried weird poetry and books in translation from small presses. Borders had zines. They had a Literary/Critical Theory section. Even my b-grade state university didn't have one of those in its on campus bookstore.
I didn't cry a million tears when Borders went under because we're back to decent indie bookshops in my neck of the world, but I do still sometimes miss just wandering in the eclectic, mostly uncurated vastness of it all.
posted by thivaia at 10:53 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
But when I ended up in a new south sprawl for college and the only decent indie closed shortly thereafter? Borders was a lifesaver. Borders carried all the Kathy Acker. They carried weird poetry and books in translation from small presses. Borders had zines. They had a Literary/Critical Theory section. Even my b-grade state university didn't have one of those in its on campus bookstore.
I didn't cry a million tears when Borders went under because we're back to decent indie bookshops in my neck of the world, but I do still sometimes miss just wandering in the eclectic, mostly uncurated vastness of it all.
posted by thivaia at 10:53 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
employed many of the semi-unemployable nerds of Ann Arbor.
(raises hand)
I remember setting foot in that first Border's around 1984-5. It was *vast*, an incredible, Borgesian fantasy. I wandered and gathered an armload of books.
A few years later I worked in a used bookshop just down the street. From there I checked Border's frequently, partly to get new stuff I couldn't find, partly to see what was happening in the book world.
Twice, during fights at the used book shop, I stomped to Border's to apply for a job. Both times the staff sighed. They'd seen it before.
posted by doctornemo at 11:08 AM on March 30, 2022 [11 favorites]
(raises hand)
I remember setting foot in that first Border's around 1984-5. It was *vast*, an incredible, Borgesian fantasy. I wandered and gathered an armload of books.
A few years later I worked in a used bookshop just down the street. From there I checked Border's frequently, partly to get new stuff I couldn't find, partly to see what was happening in the book world.
Twice, during fights at the used book shop, I stomped to Border's to apply for a job. Both times the staff sighed. They'd seen it before.
posted by doctornemo at 11:08 AM on March 30, 2022 [11 favorites]
For me, Barnes and Noble came later, when I was older and raising two kids with my wife (1995-2015). B+N was a fine place for us. So much for the kids to explore.
Earlier, in the 1970s and 80s B. Dalton was the best bookstore I could find in most places. No chairs, of course. Narrow aisles. Not very helpful staff. Not a big selection, but it was a selection, and you could learn a lot.
posted by doctornemo at 11:12 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Earlier, in the 1970s and 80s B. Dalton was the best bookstore I could find in most places. No chairs, of course. Narrow aisles. Not very helpful staff. Not a big selection, but it was a selection, and you could learn a lot.
posted by doctornemo at 11:12 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
The new hotness around here is Kinokuniya. (It's mostly manga and Japanese imports.) Every time I've been in there, the place has been packed, and there's always a line to check out. My few interactions with the staff have involved enthusiastic nerditry.
Meanwhile, the local regular/used bookstore downsized from a stand alone building to a strip mall. They do staff recommendations for SF, so I try to get stuff there, when I can.
posted by Spike Glee at 11:29 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, the local regular/used bookstore downsized from a stand alone building to a strip mall. They do staff recommendations for SF, so I try to get stuff there, when I can.
posted by Spike Glee at 11:29 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Borders had zines
Borders in the UK wasn't very good, certainly compared to Waterstones in the 90s where the stock really was in large part locally sourced, but Borders' (maga)zine section was exceptional.
I met their national buyer once: he told me that the head office kept wanting to shrink it down, as it was understandably a pain to restock so many titles and to deal with all their inserts and odd sizes.. but that wall of possible worlds reminded me intensely of the first time I visited a comic shop, and was about the only reason I'd ever go to Borders up until all UK stores abruptly closed just before Christmas.. you know, the time when they could pull in the most money all year if they can just stay open for a month longer? They were clearly beyond fucked.
posted by GeorgeBickham at 11:48 AM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
Borders in the UK wasn't very good, certainly compared to Waterstones in the 90s where the stock really was in large part locally sourced, but Borders' (maga)zine section was exceptional.
I met their national buyer once: he told me that the head office kept wanting to shrink it down, as it was understandably a pain to restock so many titles and to deal with all their inserts and odd sizes.. but that wall of possible worlds reminded me intensely of the first time I visited a comic shop, and was about the only reason I'd ever go to Borders up until all UK stores abruptly closed just before Christmas.. you know, the time when they could pull in the most money all year if they can just stay open for a month longer? They were clearly beyond fucked.
posted by GeorgeBickham at 11:48 AM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
borders in ann arbor was a huge store (although john k king in downtown detroit has a worse selection of many more used books)
i think the article's not fully knowledgeable about schuler's - they've been struggling a little - they used to have 5 locations - the other ones that are still open are on 28th st in grand rapids and downtown gr - they used to have a store on alpine st in gr and one in a large mega strip mall off of lake lansing road north of lansing
used bookstores seem to be closing a lot - we only have about half of what we used to have in the greater michiana and sw michigan area
posted by pyramid termite at 11:49 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
i think the article's not fully knowledgeable about schuler's - they've been struggling a little - they used to have 5 locations - the other ones that are still open are on 28th st in grand rapids and downtown gr - they used to have a store on alpine st in gr and one in a large mega strip mall off of lake lansing road north of lansing
used bookstores seem to be closing a lot - we only have about half of what we used to have in the greater michiana and sw michigan area
posted by pyramid termite at 11:49 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
I grew up with a couple of small mall bookstores, but they were full of books. I could usually find something new in sections I was interested in, though not necessarily specific books.
Books-A-Million showed up in town and they had more books, more space, but somehow not really better books as far as I was concerned -- piles of discount stuff. Still, fun to browse!
Then I moved to St. Louis. There were multiple bigger B&N/Borders type stores around, some small independent bookstores, used bookstores etc. but online shopping was getting to be a thing. If I wanted a specific book, I bought it online -- but if I wanted to browse, bookstores were awesome.
Malls around here mostly dried up and blew away, well before the pandemic. Borders are all gone too. At least before the pandemic, there were still a couple of B&Ns around, which included a coffee shop, 3D printer, board games, video games, puzzles, toys, tote bags, magazines, and... I think I'm forgetting a category here. Oh, books! They had almost as many books as Funko Pops.
We do have a few Half-Price Books, which are mostly more than half price even for the used ones. I used to browse, buy a couple of things but mostly take notes about what to look for from the library or online. It's been a while since I did that though. Mostly now I read ebooks -- from the library if I can get them, unless I specifically want to support the author more.
posted by Foosnark at 12:02 PM on March 30, 2022
Books-A-Million showed up in town and they had more books, more space, but somehow not really better books as far as I was concerned -- piles of discount stuff. Still, fun to browse!
Then I moved to St. Louis. There were multiple bigger B&N/Borders type stores around, some small independent bookstores, used bookstores etc. but online shopping was getting to be a thing. If I wanted a specific book, I bought it online -- but if I wanted to browse, bookstores were awesome.
Malls around here mostly dried up and blew away, well before the pandemic. Borders are all gone too. At least before the pandemic, there were still a couple of B&Ns around, which included a coffee shop, 3D printer, board games, video games, puzzles, toys, tote bags, magazines, and... I think I'm forgetting a category here. Oh, books! They had almost as many books as Funko Pops.
We do have a few Half-Price Books, which are mostly more than half price even for the used ones. I used to browse, buy a couple of things but mostly take notes about what to look for from the library or online. It's been a while since I did that though. Mostly now I read ebooks -- from the library if I can get them, unless I specifically want to support the author more.
posted by Foosnark at 12:02 PM on March 30, 2022
Twice, during fights at the used book shop,
Drama at the Dawn Treader!!!
posted by praemunire at 12:24 PM on March 30, 2022 [12 favorites]
Drama at the Dawn Treader!!!
posted by praemunire at 12:24 PM on March 30, 2022 [12 favorites]
It's getting REAL in the bookstore parking lot?
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:38 PM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:38 PM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
Drama at the Dawn Treader!!!
I worked at Dawn Treader for about a year. Can confirm that the drama criticism section was about 50% unmovable Oxfordian conspiracy nonsense. I tried to hide all that on an upper distant shelf, but it got shuffled back eventually.
Wait, is that not the sort of drama we're talking about?
posted by HeroZero at 12:47 PM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
I worked at Dawn Treader for about a year. Can confirm that the drama criticism section was about 50% unmovable Oxfordian conspiracy nonsense. I tried to hide all that on an upper distant shelf, but it got shuffled back eventually.
Wait, is that not the sort of drama we're talking about?
posted by HeroZero at 12:47 PM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
Just commenting to say hello to all that have set foot in Ann Arbor and the Borders it had. We miss it so.
Also: it's either...
Also: it's either...
- Drama at the Dawn Treader
- Drama in the West Side
- Drama in the Literati
Drama at the Dawn Treader!!!
Every. Damned. Day.
posted by doctornemo at 1:01 PM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
Every. Damned. Day.
posted by doctornemo at 1:01 PM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
When Books-A-Million took over the Bangor and Portland Borders locations, they kept all the exteriors, shelving, fixtures, store layout, and color scheme. Both stores are like zombie Borders and there are times when if it wasn't for the suspiciously large Christian sections, I could almost imagine that they were still Borders.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:43 PM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:43 PM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
About a decade ago, The World’s Biggest Bookstore closed: this was a sizeable (duh) bookstore in Downtown Toronto which hadn’t technically been the biggest in a while, but the name endured from its opening in 1980.
My wife and I visited on the final weekend when we were in town for a conference. I think the discounts on stock had started at maybe 20% and increased incrementally every few days as they tried to shift more and more of the remaining stock. That weekend, perhaps three days before it closed forever, everything was reduced by 90%.
You might wonder what would still be on the shelves at that stage. I took a bunch of photos of entirely empty fiction shelves, barren magazine racks, and bookless general interest nonfiction. The Christian section was still three-quarters full. And, like a garage that had miraculously landed intact miles away after a tornado, there were still literally hundreds of Duck Dynasty tie-in books.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:21 PM on March 30, 2022 [10 favorites]
My wife and I visited on the final weekend when we were in town for a conference. I think the discounts on stock had started at maybe 20% and increased incrementally every few days as they tried to shift more and more of the remaining stock. That weekend, perhaps three days before it closed forever, everything was reduced by 90%.
You might wonder what would still be on the shelves at that stage. I took a bunch of photos of entirely empty fiction shelves, barren magazine racks, and bookless general interest nonfiction. The Christian section was still three-quarters full. And, like a garage that had miraculously landed intact miles away after a tornado, there were still literally hundreds of Duck Dynasty tie-in books.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:21 PM on March 30, 2022 [10 favorites]
Hee. Hello, other former Ann Arborites. The Dawn Treader was pretty somnolent in my era. The action was at Moe's Bookstore with that giant gray cat.
posted by acrasis at 3:13 PM on March 30, 2022
posted by acrasis at 3:13 PM on March 30, 2022
I used to go into David's books, back when it was upstairs and signed by the literary mural, and host to several cats. I have some stuff still from them.
I worked at the Dawn Treader 1986-1993 or so.
posted by doctornemo at 3:27 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I worked at the Dawn Treader 1986-1993 or so.
posted by doctornemo at 3:27 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've banged on about it before, but it remains true: Borders was an absolute revelation when it came to Australia. The first one I walked into around 20 years ago, which I guess was in Melbourne either at the Jam Factory or in the city, was probably the most incredible place I'd ever encountered.
We had "big" bookstores, sure, but this was a BIG bookstore, across three floors. And while it had all the same stuff you'd find at QBD or Dymocks or Bookworld (I don't know if there was actually a place called Bookworld, I might have made it up in my head just now), it also had stuff that was actually interesting. I was into graphic novels at the time, and they had multiple shelves of the damn things. And not just DC/Marvel collected trades, but stuff like Jimmy Corrigan and Johnny the Homicidal Maniac and Strangers in Paradise and and and.
I basically spent entire pay "cheques" at Borders and Readings (the Melbourne-grown equivalent, at the time, opposite the Bourke Street Mall), because I was able to discover so much stuff, and it was all arranged so beautifully and thematically, and the stock was constantly rotating, and it seemed they always had the book you wanted rather than "well, we can order it in". I mean, I can order it in. The Subway sandwich shop across the street can probably "order it in". Anybody could order anything, even in 2001.
Everyone who loves books knows book smells, and how you can determine a book's provenance from the smell alone. Secondhand books all smell the same, but new books, you can tell from the paper, the give, and the smell, where they were printed. Lots of US imports, stuff I'd never seen. E.M. Cioran? Who the fuck is that? I don't know, but he hates things the same way I do, by god.
(I read all the Ciorans in Borders itself, as they were way too expensive for me. One slim Cioran or two chunky something-elses? Always the something-elses. But the fact that I could read a Cioran from cover to cover over a few lunch breaks, or a single Saturday or Sunday? Amazing. Probably one of the reasons they went broke, they were giving away too much free reading.)
I don't think I ever bought CDs or DVDs there - maybe once or twice - because they were overpriced compared to JB Hi Fi (which was another revelation in and of itself - you never saw so much music and movies in your life!), but I appreciated that the sections existed. Lots of magazines too, though even that long ago, magazines were pretty dead.
Maybe Amazon and Kindle killed Borders, or maybe it killed itself by clearing out too many bookshelves and replacing the square footage with "Gifts", or maybe we killed it via gradual cultural stupification. And bookstores continue to close - Brisbane lost Folio, the last good independent bookstore in the Brisbane CBD, about a year ago. I spent my fair share of money there too, so there wasn't anything else I could do to help. But I hope this resurgence reaches our shores. I would love something Bordersesque to return.
My "fun thing" that I'd do at Borders/Readings was to buy a three pack of pocket-sized Moleskine cahiers (because I was a young writer, of course), and at the front would be my mentalist scribblings, which might as well have been written with an index finger dipped in my own excrement, but at the back? At the back I'd peel off the price stickers for all the books I bought and stick them in, because they had the title, the author, the price, and I'd scribble the date I bought it, then the date I read it, then the date I finished it, and a couple of thoughts about it. So those cahiers filled fast.
In a recent purge I binned all of my oughties Moleskines, but it was fun going back through the stickers. I even jotted down a few titles that I want to rebuy, and on balance, they aren't the ones that I enjoyed back then.
From TFA:
"Those bookstores were never just about books — they were about access, and freedom."
Damn oath.
Books!
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:50 PM on March 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
We had "big" bookstores, sure, but this was a BIG bookstore, across three floors. And while it had all the same stuff you'd find at QBD or Dymocks or Bookworld (I don't know if there was actually a place called Bookworld, I might have made it up in my head just now), it also had stuff that was actually interesting. I was into graphic novels at the time, and they had multiple shelves of the damn things. And not just DC/Marvel collected trades, but stuff like Jimmy Corrigan and Johnny the Homicidal Maniac and Strangers in Paradise and and and.
I basically spent entire pay "cheques" at Borders and Readings (the Melbourne-grown equivalent, at the time, opposite the Bourke Street Mall), because I was able to discover so much stuff, and it was all arranged so beautifully and thematically, and the stock was constantly rotating, and it seemed they always had the book you wanted rather than "well, we can order it in". I mean, I can order it in. The Subway sandwich shop across the street can probably "order it in". Anybody could order anything, even in 2001.
Everyone who loves books knows book smells, and how you can determine a book's provenance from the smell alone. Secondhand books all smell the same, but new books, you can tell from the paper, the give, and the smell, where they were printed. Lots of US imports, stuff I'd never seen. E.M. Cioran? Who the fuck is that? I don't know, but he hates things the same way I do, by god.
(I read all the Ciorans in Borders itself, as they were way too expensive for me. One slim Cioran or two chunky something-elses? Always the something-elses. But the fact that I could read a Cioran from cover to cover over a few lunch breaks, or a single Saturday or Sunday? Amazing. Probably one of the reasons they went broke, they were giving away too much free reading.)
I don't think I ever bought CDs or DVDs there - maybe once or twice - because they were overpriced compared to JB Hi Fi (which was another revelation in and of itself - you never saw so much music and movies in your life!), but I appreciated that the sections existed. Lots of magazines too, though even that long ago, magazines were pretty dead.
Maybe Amazon and Kindle killed Borders, or maybe it killed itself by clearing out too many bookshelves and replacing the square footage with "Gifts", or maybe we killed it via gradual cultural stupification. And bookstores continue to close - Brisbane lost Folio, the last good independent bookstore in the Brisbane CBD, about a year ago. I spent my fair share of money there too, so there wasn't anything else I could do to help. But I hope this resurgence reaches our shores. I would love something Bordersesque to return.
My "fun thing" that I'd do at Borders/Readings was to buy a three pack of pocket-sized Moleskine cahiers (because I was a young writer, of course), and at the front would be my mentalist scribblings, which might as well have been written with an index finger dipped in my own excrement, but at the back? At the back I'd peel off the price stickers for all the books I bought and stick them in, because they had the title, the author, the price, and I'd scribble the date I bought it, then the date I read it, then the date I finished it, and a couple of thoughts about it. So those cahiers filled fast.
In a recent purge I binned all of my oughties Moleskines, but it was fun going back through the stickers. I even jotted down a few titles that I want to rebuy, and on balance, they aren't the ones that I enjoyed back then.
From TFA:
"Those bookstores were never just about books — they were about access, and freedom."
Damn oath.
Books!
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:50 PM on March 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
It makes sense for Ann Arbor people to be nostalgic about bookstores; we had the original Borders, which carried lot of really good bargain books; we had the University bookstore, we had hard-to-describe experiences like The Dawn Treader, where you could learn a lot from the semi-employable book clerks (Hi doctornemo- bet I've run into you, and you're right- the Giant Cat was at David's) We also had Waldenbooks and B. Dalton at Briarwood Mall, but my nostalgia for those is from being a pre-teen, when indeed, your mother dropped you off and you had a tiny whiff of freedom wandering down aisles she would frown at.
These days when I go to an independent bookstore I feel I have to buy a worthy, expensive book and keep the place in business; the place where I wander and browse and take a chance on high-risk books is my county's free digital library. That's my Waldenbooks now.
posted by acrasis at 3:51 PM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
These days when I go to an independent bookstore I feel I have to buy a worthy, expensive book and keep the place in business; the place where I wander and browse and take a chance on high-risk books is my county's free digital library. That's my Waldenbooks now.
posted by acrasis at 3:51 PM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well actually, the Borders and Waterstones in my area in the nineties were miles better, simply streets ahead, of the bookstores we have today.
Frowner, I 100% agree. As noted or implied above, I do try to support the locals, but if you don't have it I'm not going to wait three weeks for it when World of Books and BookDepository exist. But more often than not, Borders simply had it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:59 PM on March 30, 2022
Frowner, I 100% agree. As noted or implied above, I do try to support the locals, but if you don't have it I'm not going to wait three weeks for it when World of Books and BookDepository exist. But more often than not, Borders simply had it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:59 PM on March 30, 2022
An enormous bookstore with a cafe inside where you could sit and read the books you were about to buy, and then on the way to pay for them you could browse a magazine section the size of a small country? And it was open late?
Cathedrals. I yearn for them.
posted by DangerIsMyMiddleName at 6:29 PM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
Cathedrals. I yearn for them.
posted by DangerIsMyMiddleName at 6:29 PM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
I miss the Encore Books chain, which dealt in books that hadn't sold but weren't remaindered yet. Most of my kid's picture books came from there, and there were some strange ones.
Said kid worked in a B&N as an adult and it was a toss-up which was worse for said kid, that job or the Rite Aid. The niche video store was a great job, though.
posted by Peach at 7:24 PM on March 30, 2022
Said kid worked in a B&N as an adult and it was a toss-up which was worse for said kid, that job or the Rite Aid. The niche video store was a great job, though.
posted by Peach at 7:24 PM on March 30, 2022
I still miss Media Play - where they had music, books, movies and software. I don't recall any kind of coffee shop inside at all, though.
posted by soelo at 8:58 PM on March 30, 2022
posted by soelo at 8:58 PM on March 30, 2022
Around the summer of 1987 at some mall or shopping center in Orange County California, most likely Costa Mesa, but not South Coast Plaza, my girlfriend and I went to see a movie. We were new lovers, the kind who couldn't keep our hands off each other. We bought tickets for a movie (no idea what it was) but had some time to kill so we walked through the mall, stopping at a bookstore to browse. I think it was a B. Dalton. We both gravitated to the fiction section. At some point, she pulled out a book to recommend to me.
She always spent the night at my place and had seen my small collection of horror novels. King. Barker. Saul. Straub. I don't recall what book she pulled off the shelf to show me. We broke up a few months later. I returned to that bookstore after we broke up to try to find the book she recommended. I knew the approximate location and a sense of the cover art.
I pulled many books off that shelf but couldn't remember which one was the one. I ended up purchasing Voltaire's Candide (the Bantam Classic edition). It became one of my favorite books.
Fast forward a few years to college in a small town in southern Illinois. My interest in reading led me to pursue an English degree. The chain bookstore at the local mall was always quiet. One day I went to buy a book and was waiting at the counter for someone to ring me up. I stood there for at least 5 minutes. No employee in sight, so I walked out with my book.
I told my roommate about it and he went to the bookstore and walked out with a book without paying. He did it several times. One time he told me as he walked in the store, he heard an employee say, "Watch this guy. He'll take a book and not pay for it." But they never did anything to stop him. (He was a large guy.)
Fast forward a few more years and I'm working at Borders in Oak Brook, Illinois. I love it. I love the books. I love my co-workers. I really love the remainders. On days when we got a shipment, those of us opening the boxes would be looking for the best remainders.
At some point, Borders decided to cut back on the number of titles they were selling. We got a big list of books we were to pull from the shelves and send back. I had already worked a full day but volunteered to work after hours to help pull books. It was a long night. We had stacks and stacks of books on the floor that we pulled. In the early morning, I went home to shower and rest briefly before coming back before opening to help tidy up.
We still had stacks of books on the floor when we opened our doors. It was a sad day for most of the employees. All those interesting books were going away, probably to come back as remainders.
posted by perhapses at 9:17 PM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
She always spent the night at my place and had seen my small collection of horror novels. King. Barker. Saul. Straub. I don't recall what book she pulled off the shelf to show me. We broke up a few months later. I returned to that bookstore after we broke up to try to find the book she recommended. I knew the approximate location and a sense of the cover art.
I pulled many books off that shelf but couldn't remember which one was the one. I ended up purchasing Voltaire's Candide (the Bantam Classic edition). It became one of my favorite books.
Fast forward a few years to college in a small town in southern Illinois. My interest in reading led me to pursue an English degree. The chain bookstore at the local mall was always quiet. One day I went to buy a book and was waiting at the counter for someone to ring me up. I stood there for at least 5 minutes. No employee in sight, so I walked out with my book.
I told my roommate about it and he went to the bookstore and walked out with a book without paying. He did it several times. One time he told me as he walked in the store, he heard an employee say, "Watch this guy. He'll take a book and not pay for it." But they never did anything to stop him. (He was a large guy.)
Fast forward a few more years and I'm working at Borders in Oak Brook, Illinois. I love it. I love the books. I love my co-workers. I really love the remainders. On days when we got a shipment, those of us opening the boxes would be looking for the best remainders.
At some point, Borders decided to cut back on the number of titles they were selling. We got a big list of books we were to pull from the shelves and send back. I had already worked a full day but volunteered to work after hours to help pull books. It was a long night. We had stacks and stacks of books on the floor that we pulled. In the early morning, I went home to shower and rest briefly before coming back before opening to help tidy up.
We still had stacks of books on the floor when we opened our doors. It was a sad day for most of the employees. All those interesting books were going away, probably to come back as remainders.
posted by perhapses at 9:17 PM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
I worked at Schuler Books in Grand Rapids, Michigan for most of the 1990s. It was a great place to work at the beginning, then progressively less so as Barnes & Noble moved into town with their predatory pricing practices, then Amazon began to eat everyone's lunch a couple of years later.
Back when it was a place people loved to work, SB had an amazing selection of, well, everything. Poetry, art, literary fiction, genre fiction, history...I could go on. It was wonderful.
As the realities of the New World set in, the quality of the collection went into decline and the store started carrying more and more sidelines, music, used books, etc. At the same time, the expectations from the employees began to quickly outpace the raises in hourly wages and salaries. We were expected (by the owners who owned a big house in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the city) to do the extra work because we loved books and bookstores.
Working on a project directly with the owners, during the last six months of my tenure at the bookstore, was one of the worst work experiences of my life (I say that as a person who worked for a dot-com startup in 1999 and as a Flash developer in the early 2000s). They may have had decent instincts at the time for running a bookstore, but when it came to interpersonal communication and people management, and generally looking after their employees, IMO they were the very worst.
Fortunately, Grand Rapids has a new indie bookstore, Books & Mortar, which is doing fantastic business even during the pandemic, and the owner is involved with, and supportive of, the community in a way that the Schuler Books folks haven't been in decades. I shop exclusively with them (and local legend Argos Bookstore for used books), and anything they don't have in stock, they are happy to order.
I almost never go to SB any more, other than the first week of January, when the wall calendars at 50% off.
posted by JohnFromGR at 3:00 AM on March 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
Back when it was a place people loved to work, SB had an amazing selection of, well, everything. Poetry, art, literary fiction, genre fiction, history...I could go on. It was wonderful.
As the realities of the New World set in, the quality of the collection went into decline and the store started carrying more and more sidelines, music, used books, etc. At the same time, the expectations from the employees began to quickly outpace the raises in hourly wages and salaries. We were expected (by the owners who owned a big house in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the city) to do the extra work because we loved books and bookstores.
Working on a project directly with the owners, during the last six months of my tenure at the bookstore, was one of the worst work experiences of my life (I say that as a person who worked for a dot-com startup in 1999 and as a Flash developer in the early 2000s). They may have had decent instincts at the time for running a bookstore, but when it came to interpersonal communication and people management, and generally looking after their employees, IMO they were the very worst.
Fortunately, Grand Rapids has a new indie bookstore, Books & Mortar, which is doing fantastic business even during the pandemic, and the owner is involved with, and supportive of, the community in a way that the Schuler Books folks haven't been in decades. I shop exclusively with them (and local legend Argos Bookstore for used books), and anything they don't have in stock, they are happy to order.
I almost never go to SB any more, other than the first week of January, when the wall calendars at 50% off.
posted by JohnFromGR at 3:00 AM on March 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
If I'm traveling Amtrak through Boston, I always lay over for an hour or two and check out the book store island in the Boston Amtrak station. It's well-curated and the employees are very knowledgeable. It's a nice historical station, with a view of the tracks, and there are coffee tables right there.
posted by StickyCarpet at 3:45 AM on March 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by StickyCarpet at 3:45 AM on March 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
I still have a vivid memory of going into my first Borders. This would’ve been in 2002. I had been to several Barnes & Nobles, so I thought I knew the score. But I was absolutely floored by the selection, which had all kinds of books I had heard of but never come across, from obscure science fiction books to translated novels published by university presses.
I later moved to a city with a Borders, Providence, and it became a second home, and I would spend enormous amounts of time in the cafe, reading books I wanted to purchase, but also just books I wanted to read.
They also had an amazing loyalty program, where you would get a certain amount of money back at the beginning of December. It would usually be enough for me to purchase all my holiday presents with that cashback.
But mostly it was the selection which astounded me. I would browse and stumble on books I hadn’t heard of, or heard of but never thought about reading. I’d take them to the café and often end up buying those books.
Once, I remember taking both Underworld by Don Delillo and Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace to the café and deciding to buy the latter because I knew more about tennis than I knew about baseball. In retrospect, that was the wrong choice.
posted by Kattullus at 3:47 AM on March 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
I later moved to a city with a Borders, Providence, and it became a second home, and I would spend enormous amounts of time in the cafe, reading books I wanted to purchase, but also just books I wanted to read.
They also had an amazing loyalty program, where you would get a certain amount of money back at the beginning of December. It would usually be enough for me to purchase all my holiday presents with that cashback.
But mostly it was the selection which astounded me. I would browse and stumble on books I hadn’t heard of, or heard of but never thought about reading. I’d take them to the café and often end up buying those books.
Once, I remember taking both Underworld by Don Delillo and Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace to the café and deciding to buy the latter because I knew more about tennis than I knew about baseball. In retrospect, that was the wrong choice.
posted by Kattullus at 3:47 AM on March 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
I know these chains killed lots of indie stores and that's bad, and I'd love to have more indie bookshops (especially LGBTQ bookstores; do those still exist?) but I do miss them and am glad for the article, since I have been mystified that my local mall can support two chain bookstores (?!) and am grateful for the explanation.
And I do have a lot of Borders nostalgia. It's where I bought issues of Bitch Magazine and read a lot of graphic novels.
posted by pelvicsorcery at 4:57 AM on March 31, 2022 [4 favorites]
And I do have a lot of Borders nostalgia. It's where I bought issues of Bitch Magazine and read a lot of graphic novels.
posted by pelvicsorcery at 4:57 AM on March 31, 2022 [4 favorites]
We have quite a few newish Indie bookstores in my city that seem to be doing quite well. I doubt that I've been in a mall bookstore in at least a decade or more at this point; I guess I knew that B&N still had stores but they closed all of their stores in the city here and I'm not about to go out to the suburbs and find them.
I still do most of my reading on paper books but I get them from the local library branch because I don't want to clutter up the house with them after I'm done. It's basically as easy as ordering from Amazon; I just go on their site and order the book to be delivered to my neighborhood branch and I walk over and pick it up when it arrives.
posted by octothorpe at 7:54 AM on March 31, 2022
I still do most of my reading on paper books but I get them from the local library branch because I don't want to clutter up the house with them after I'm done. It's basically as easy as ordering from Amazon; I just go on their site and order the book to be delivered to my neighborhood branch and I walk over and pick it up when it arrives.
posted by octothorpe at 7:54 AM on March 31, 2022
Ctrl-F "Tower"
Ctrl-F "Virgin"
Okay, well, in addition to Borders, which flipped me out the first time I went in (I think it was in northern Virginia), a shout-out to Tower Records, which often had a weird, funky collection of books for sale (and zines, if their buyer was into it--hello, Rockville Pike Tower!), and to Virgin Megastores, which, similarly, could have really cool book/graphic novel choices alongside their massive CD and video offerings.
And nthing the value of uncurated, massive collections of books. Borders was like that, as was the occasional B&N. I found a complete works of Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz, published in Mexico, just sitting by itself in the poetry section of a Borders that had no other poetry books in Spanish.
posted by the sobsister at 8:18 AM on March 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ctrl-F "Virgin"
Okay, well, in addition to Borders, which flipped me out the first time I went in (I think it was in northern Virginia), a shout-out to Tower Records, which often had a weird, funky collection of books for sale (and zines, if their buyer was into it--hello, Rockville Pike Tower!), and to Virgin Megastores, which, similarly, could have really cool book/graphic novel choices alongside their massive CD and video offerings.
And nthing the value of uncurated, massive collections of books. Borders was like that, as was the occasional B&N. I found a complete works of Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz, published in Mexico, just sitting by itself in the poetry section of a Borders that had no other poetry books in Spanish.
posted by the sobsister at 8:18 AM on March 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
Went to my Independent bookshop last week and by chance saw a book by an anthropologist I had met a couple of times. (Yes I bought it)
An experience of serendipity you wouldn't get at Amazon online.
posted by Narrative_Historian at 12:51 AM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
An experience of serendipity you wouldn't get at Amazon online.
posted by Narrative_Historian at 12:51 AM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ctrl-F "Tower"
Ctrl-F "Virgin"
Those were my two go-tos in NYC in the late 90s, early 00s. What I really miss from those two places are listening stations. I discovered so much good music just by going to station to station and listening to whatever they had put out. It's a different experience from whatever the streaming services select for you.
The article struck me as odd, like a number of people in this thread. While I spent lots of time in big chain bookstores as a young adult (B&N and Borders, and in Maryland we had a local chain called Bibelot), I've also always loved independent bookstores, and haven't generally found the experiences described in the article and thread (largely empty shelves, only new books, etc.). I guess it depends on where you are and how good your independent bookstores, but I can think of plenty that have excellent and diverse sci-fi offerings, obscure titles, lots of good used books, etc. And a big indie like Browseabout Books in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware has a huge selection that spans decades (the staff picks alone take up 6-8 full shelving units).
So I guess I don't have the same type of nostalgia because I'm still finding plenty of good options for my book-buying habit.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:35 AM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ctrl-F "Virgin"
Those were my two go-tos in NYC in the late 90s, early 00s. What I really miss from those two places are listening stations. I discovered so much good music just by going to station to station and listening to whatever they had put out. It's a different experience from whatever the streaming services select for you.
The article struck me as odd, like a number of people in this thread. While I spent lots of time in big chain bookstores as a young adult (B&N and Borders, and in Maryland we had a local chain called Bibelot), I've also always loved independent bookstores, and haven't generally found the experiences described in the article and thread (largely empty shelves, only new books, etc.). I guess it depends on where you are and how good your independent bookstores, but I can think of plenty that have excellent and diverse sci-fi offerings, obscure titles, lots of good used books, etc. And a big indie like Browseabout Books in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware has a huge selection that spans decades (the staff picks alone take up 6-8 full shelving units).
So I guess I don't have the same type of nostalgia because I'm still finding plenty of good options for my book-buying habit.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:35 AM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
Another shout-out to Tower's magazine section.
at a Coopersmith's, itself an outright oddity. Known nationwide as Brentanno's, due to local trademark issues, the upscale-ish side of Waldenbooks had to go by a different name in the Chicago area.
Expected a mall-bookstore thread to be all about B.Dalton and Waldenbooks. But Brentano's -- now that was something. Probably the first new bookstore I knew, in the late 60s. The branch in our local mall had two entrances, one inside the mall (which wouldn't get roofed over until ten years later) and one outside, to the parking lot. Between these entrances were the bookshelves, of course; but in the middle was an amazing, indirectly lit area of bookshelf games and international arts & crafts: the most sophisticated place I knew of, at the time.
No bookstore in that mall now, for decades.
posted by Rash at 1:11 PM on April 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
at a Coopersmith's, itself an outright oddity. Known nationwide as Brentanno's, due to local trademark issues, the upscale-ish side of Waldenbooks had to go by a different name in the Chicago area.
Expected a mall-bookstore thread to be all about B.Dalton and Waldenbooks. But Brentano's -- now that was something. Probably the first new bookstore I knew, in the late 60s. The branch in our local mall had two entrances, one inside the mall (which wouldn't get roofed over until ten years later) and one outside, to the parking lot. Between these entrances were the bookshelves, of course; but in the middle was an amazing, indirectly lit area of bookshelf games and international arts & crafts: the most sophisticated place I knew of, at the time.
No bookstore in that mall now, for decades.
posted by Rash at 1:11 PM on April 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
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(Unless you were lucky enough to live in a place with good independents/specialist bookstores).
But - something has been lost. Chapters/Indigo didn't renew their co-location deal with Starbucks sometime over the last 2-years (most likely lake of foot-traffic due to Covid) and now - at least here - no longer has any form of embedded coffee-shop.
Over the last 15-years, they have slowly been morphing into a "lifestyle" store, with candles, throw-blankets, knick-knacks, etc. I was there last weekend to pickup some birthday gifts, and at least 30-40% of the store was... "not books"... Apparently they sell baby strollers now. But - eReaders? No longer on display, decorative items are apparently the way to go... Weird and sad.
posted by rozcakj at 8:28 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]