“Reports are sketchy at this point”
March 30, 2022 5:22 AM Subscribe
“The plan was to simulate a nuclear terrorist incident and explore how every agency would react and whether they would cooperate. To enhance the verisimilitude of the war games, the U.S. government went so far as to record a fake news broadcast about a nuclear bomb exploding in Indianapolis.“
You stay classy, Indianapolis!
posted by TedW at 6:14 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by TedW at 6:14 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
As a kid, I remember watching "Special Bulletin," a TV movie about terrorists who take a TV reporter hostage in Charleston and threaten to detonate an atomic bomb. It turns out they are themselves nuclear scientists and their demands are that the government disable all of the nuclear weapons in the local military facilities. In the end, an attempt to capture the terrorists backfires and the atomic bomb goes off.
The whole thing is filmed as if on a live TV broadcast, from the point of view of the reporter and his cameraman. Despite disclaimers broadcast at every commercial break, people thought it was real and freaked out. Even though it wasn't real, it was pretty damned terrifying.
People talk a lot about Boomer kids in the 1960s having to go under their desks for air raid drills, but not as many people talk about how us Gen X kids grew up in the 1980s with the belief that nuclear holocaust would happen any day. Between stuff like "Special Bulletin" and "The Day After", we really thought we could die at any moment. I used to listen to Sting's "Russians" with a sort of morbid curiosity.
I think my kids believe that the 80s were all brightly colored clothes and synth-pop songs, but there was a real dark undercurrent. It was a weird time.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 6:17 AM on March 30, 2022 [39 favorites]
The whole thing is filmed as if on a live TV broadcast, from the point of view of the reporter and his cameraman. Despite disclaimers broadcast at every commercial break, people thought it was real and freaked out. Even though it wasn't real, it was pretty damned terrifying.
People talk a lot about Boomer kids in the 1960s having to go under their desks for air raid drills, but not as many people talk about how us Gen X kids grew up in the 1980s with the belief that nuclear holocaust would happen any day. Between stuff like "Special Bulletin" and "The Day After", we really thought we could die at any moment. I used to listen to Sting's "Russians" with a sort of morbid curiosity.
I think my kids believe that the 80s were all brightly colored clothes and synth-pop songs, but there was a real dark undercurrent. It was a weird time.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 6:17 AM on March 30, 2022 [39 favorites]
They really picked the most white noise city possible didn't they?
posted by Ferreous at 6:21 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 6:21 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
During the Obama administration, a family member was part of the U.S. government's nuclear emergency/attack response planning team. He participated in simulations like this one, and he had several fascinating stories about how different government agencies and representatives reacted to specific situations.
In particular, I remember the discussions about deciding how victims of an attack would be cared for medically, and there was significant debate about the ethics of triage, or whether triage could even be applied in a situation like this when you have a tiny number of burn beds and an overwhelming number of burn victims.
There was one exchange that stood out to me at the time. An administrator made the assumption that the armed forces would simply leave behind those who were clearly not going to survive, 'as in war time.' He was interrupted by a general who vociferously explained that on a battlefield soliders do their utmost to not leave anyone behind, regardless of the severity of their injury, and that each victim would receive a similar level of care in an emergency situation like this, one regardless of their prognosis. This expanded into the argument that first in / first treated was the only ethical way to manage a medical response to a disaster on this scale. It got quite heated.
posted by jordantwodelta at 6:43 AM on March 30, 2022 [13 favorites]
In particular, I remember the discussions about deciding how victims of an attack would be cared for medically, and there was significant debate about the ethics of triage, or whether triage could even be applied in a situation like this when you have a tiny number of burn beds and an overwhelming number of burn victims.
There was one exchange that stood out to me at the time. An administrator made the assumption that the armed forces would simply leave behind those who were clearly not going to survive, 'as in war time.' He was interrupted by a general who vociferously explained that on a battlefield soliders do their utmost to not leave anyone behind, regardless of the severity of their injury, and that each victim would receive a similar level of care in an emergency situation like this, one regardless of their prognosis. This expanded into the argument that first in / first treated was the only ethical way to manage a medical response to a disaster on this scale. It got quite heated.
posted by jordantwodelta at 6:43 AM on March 30, 2022 [13 favorites]
This is what an element of a "live play" exercise can look like. It's a bit over the top, but not terribly so. I've been part of airplanes crashing into major airports, dirty bombs going off near major cities, chemical warfare attempts on political leaders, and too many oil spills to count.
One of the big elements of any simulation exercise are "Injects", messages the people running the simulation/referees "inject" into the exercise to change the situation and see how everyone responds to the changing "situation". This looks to me like a classic Inject, something dramatic that changes what the participants thought they were doing. Exciting!
We do about 2-3 exercises every year, some small and virtual (table tops), some that look like LARP events (live plays).
Everyone is has big live plays planned this summer, after two years of tabletops.
posted by bonehead at 7:05 AM on March 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
One of the big elements of any simulation exercise are "Injects", messages the people running the simulation/referees "inject" into the exercise to change the situation and see how everyone responds to the changing "situation". This looks to me like a classic Inject, something dramatic that changes what the participants thought they were doing. Exciting!
We do about 2-3 exercises every year, some small and virtual (table tops), some that look like LARP events (live plays).
Everyone is has big live plays planned this summer, after two years of tabletops.
posted by bonehead at 7:05 AM on March 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
Gen x kid here. I used to put on Prince's 'Venus De Milo" and stare at the horizon 5 miles away where the national capital is, in my town adjacent to the nominal national Army headquarters, 2 miles away from where the nation refits/retires its nuclear submarines and frigates and think to myself "Well, at least it'll be quick."
posted by aesop at 7:05 AM on March 30, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by aesop at 7:05 AM on March 30, 2022 [10 favorites]
People talk a lot about Boomer kids in the 1960s having to go under their desks for air raid drills, but not as many people talk about how us Gen X kids grew up in the 1980s with the belief that nuclear holocaust would happen any day.
As a 60s kid, a regular topic of discussion was how many nukes the Russians had pointed at our particular city. It was actually done as an exercise in morbid civic pride, as in "We're so important that the Russians have 100 missiles aimed at us!" That would be followed by a listing of the big corporations/factories and/or military facilities located in our city that we knew the Russians wanted to wipe-out.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:14 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
As a 60s kid, a regular topic of discussion was how many nukes the Russians had pointed at our particular city. It was actually done as an exercise in morbid civic pride, as in "We're so important that the Russians have 100 missiles aimed at us!" That would be followed by a listing of the big corporations/factories and/or military facilities located in our city that we knew the Russians wanted to wipe-out.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:14 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
aesop, I was about 50 miles north of you, sandwiched between Fort Meade and Camp David, and idly wondered how wide a blast radius is, and how far we might expect related fallout to extend. I'm still not entirely sure what "nuclear winter" is, but remembering talking about it a lot in middle school.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:17 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:17 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
In my 50s here... grew up in Las Cruces, NM which is not far from White Sands Missile Range, which contains Trinity Site (where they tested the first atomic bomb). It was well known when I was growing up that my city was a first strike target. Did some duck and cover drills in elementary school. Wheeeee.
I remember watching Special Report, which was VERY VERY CAREFUL to try to keep saying it was fiction because of the whole mess Orson Welles got in with his War Of The Worlds radio broadcast. I was following the whole thing at the time because I was a weird kid who actually owned WOTW on vinyl and was fascinated by the reported hysteria at the time. The fact that people, despite repeated statements of "this is not true", still got all freaked out about Special Report was... confusing to me.
posted by hippybear at 7:28 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
I remember watching Special Report, which was VERY VERY CAREFUL to try to keep saying it was fiction because of the whole mess Orson Welles got in with his War Of The Worlds radio broadcast. I was following the whole thing at the time because I was a weird kid who actually owned WOTW on vinyl and was fascinated by the reported hysteria at the time. The fact that people, despite repeated statements of "this is not true", still got all freaked out about Special Report was... confusing to me.
posted by hippybear at 7:28 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
Nuclear winter is the phenomenon when enough atomic weapons go off to stir up dust, debris, smoke and chemicals from everything getting blown up, to cover the skies and linger in the atmosphere for a significant period of time. Think about all the unhealthy to breathe substances after the world trade center collapsed, times multiple cities on multiple continents.
Now realize that it's going to likely drop temperatures below freezing, and last weeks, months, or years. So surviving the initial exchange could very well mean the remnants are in very, very bad shape.
posted by Jacen at 7:31 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
Now realize that it's going to likely drop temperatures below freezing, and last weeks, months, or years. So surviving the initial exchange could very well mean the remnants are in very, very bad shape.
posted by Jacen at 7:31 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
It was well known when I was growing up that my city was a first strike target.
Did anyone live in a town where this wasn't the claim? This was what every single Gen-Xer thought. In my town it was because we had a big Army R&D facility. "We're #5 on Russia's target list!" because, you know, when there's a war the first thing you take out are the people designing uniforms and tents.
Granted, I'm sure this was absolutely true for some towns, especially those of you living near missile silos, but I don't think I've ever met a Gen-Xer who doesn't have some story about The Prime Target in their town.
I mean, we had to have SOMETHING to brag about back then, it might as well be that.
As a kid, I remember watching "Special Bulletin," a TV movie about terrorists who take a TV reporter hostage in Charleston
This may have been the best of the genre. I remember freaking out when the bomb squad started to run away and then the screen went to static. I just rewatched that scene, just now, and it's a little cheesier than I remember but it still gave me chills.
posted by bondcliff at 7:46 AM on March 30, 2022 [10 favorites]
Did anyone live in a town where this wasn't the claim? This was what every single Gen-Xer thought. In my town it was because we had a big Army R&D facility. "We're #5 on Russia's target list!" because, you know, when there's a war the first thing you take out are the people designing uniforms and tents.
Granted, I'm sure this was absolutely true for some towns, especially those of you living near missile silos, but I don't think I've ever met a Gen-Xer who doesn't have some story about The Prime Target in their town.
I mean, we had to have SOMETHING to brag about back then, it might as well be that.
As a kid, I remember watching "Special Bulletin," a TV movie about terrorists who take a TV reporter hostage in Charleston
This may have been the best of the genre. I remember freaking out when the bomb squad started to run away and then the screen went to static. I just rewatched that scene, just now, and it's a little cheesier than I remember but it still gave me chills.
posted by bondcliff at 7:46 AM on March 30, 2022 [10 favorites]
People talk a lot about Boomer kids in the 1960s having to go under their desks for air raid drills, but not as many people talk about how us Gen X kids grew up in the 1980s with the belief that nuclear holocaust would happen any day. Between stuff like "Special Bulletin" and "The Day After", we really thought we could die at any moment. I used to listen to Sting's "Russians" with a sort of morbid curiosity.
The Day After was filmed in my hometown when I was 10. When I watched it on TV it scared the hell out of me. We had already started talking a lot in our current affairs class back then about nuclear war. After that I started having regular nightmares about it. Thankfully the Cold War ended and we no longer have anything like that to worry about anymore. /sarcasm
posted by drstrangelove at 7:55 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
The Day After was filmed in my hometown when I was 10. When I watched it on TV it scared the hell out of me. We had already started talking a lot in our current affairs class back then about nuclear war. After that I started having regular nightmares about it. Thankfully the Cold War ended and we no longer have anything like that to worry about anymore. /sarcasm
posted by drstrangelove at 7:55 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Did anyone live in a town where this wasn't the claim? This was what every single Gen-Xer thought.
Pretty much every Gen-X kid I knew believed their city to be either Seventh or Twenty-First on the Soviet's target list, based on the size of their city or what it was near. I guess people figured they could pick out what the top six-or-twenty were (if not rank order), and could build a case. Basically a sort of urban legend among nervous school kids.
I grew up in Lake Charles, Louisiana, a 21st city. We had a large amount of petrochemical processing plants and a major port on the Gulf of Mexico. We spent time in high school debating where best to watch-the-fireworks-then-get-vaporized.
posted by MrGuilt at 8:08 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
Pretty much every Gen-X kid I knew believed their city to be either Seventh or Twenty-First on the Soviet's target list, based on the size of their city or what it was near. I guess people figured they could pick out what the top six-or-twenty were (if not rank order), and could build a case. Basically a sort of urban legend among nervous school kids.
I grew up in Lake Charles, Louisiana, a 21st city. We had a large amount of petrochemical processing plants and a major port on the Gulf of Mexico. We spent time in high school debating where best to watch-the-fireworks-then-get-vaporized.
posted by MrGuilt at 8:08 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
I remember watching "Special Report" and thinking how completely unconvicing the "news" reports were and how you'd have to be pretty stupid to think they were real....but, we're talking about the American public here, so....
posted by briank at 8:09 AM on March 30, 2022
posted by briank at 8:09 AM on March 30, 2022
Ben Trismegistus I was in Scotland at the time, mais plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
posted by aesop at 8:09 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by aesop at 8:09 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
>Shouldn't the "terrirists" tag be "terrorists"?
T E R R O R ist.
posted by Catblack at 8:24 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
T E R R O R ist.
posted by Catblack at 8:24 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm still not entirely sure what "nuclear winter" is
The thinking is that in a full-tilt global thermonuclear war, there would be so much ash and debris lingering in the atmosphere afterward for months (or years, by some estimates), that it would blot the sun out, leading to a drop in global temperature and severely impacting the growth of food crops.
....My father worked for Electric Boat in Groton on a military contract in the late 60s; he wasn't in the military himself, but because he was working on a military contract he was told some stuff that he's said he's technically not supposed to talk about even still. He probably also told my Mom anyway (because seriously, how can you not), and the two of them have always been way less hawkish and more liberal than the rest of my aunts and uncles and I can only assume that it's because whatever Dad saw scared him shitless to the point of "however I can vote to make sure this doesn't go down, I'm gonna do it".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:25 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
The thinking is that in a full-tilt global thermonuclear war, there would be so much ash and debris lingering in the atmosphere afterward for months (or years, by some estimates), that it would blot the sun out, leading to a drop in global temperature and severely impacting the growth of food crops.
....My father worked for Electric Boat in Groton on a military contract in the late 60s; he wasn't in the military himself, but because he was working on a military contract he was told some stuff that he's said he's technically not supposed to talk about even still. He probably also told my Mom anyway (because seriously, how can you not), and the two of them have always been way less hawkish and more liberal than the rest of my aunts and uncles and I can only assume that it's because whatever Dad saw scared him shitless to the point of "however I can vote to make sure this doesn't go down, I'm gonna do it".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:25 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think my kids believe that the 80s were all brightly colored clothes and synth-pop songs, but there was a real dark undercurrent. It was a weird time.
e.g.: Terminator, Robocop, everything linked hitherto.
posted by mikelieman at 8:28 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
e.g.: Terminator, Robocop, everything linked hitherto.
posted by mikelieman at 8:28 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
I was about 50 miles north of you, sandwiched between Fort Meade and Camp David, and idly wondered how wide a blast radius is, and how far we might expect related fallout to extend.
I figured that when I went from the NYC suburbs to Albany, NY in 1985 that with the Watervliet Arsenal, Knolls Atomic Power Lab, GE, and the capital of NY all targets that meant my chances of survival decreased dramatically.
Yes, that was the way we used to think about this shit.
posted by mikelieman at 8:40 AM on March 30, 2022
I figured that when I went from the NYC suburbs to Albany, NY in 1985 that with the Watervliet Arsenal, Knolls Atomic Power Lab, GE, and the capital of NY all targets that meant my chances of survival decreased dramatically.
Yes, that was the way we used to think about this shit.
posted by mikelieman at 8:40 AM on March 30, 2022
Having worked at a federal agency during the early 2000's, we participated in a national level exercise of this type. My job for the exercise was to provide GIS maps of the event to the staff PTB for discussion and decisions. Being at the bottom of the food chain didn't let me hear the convo's but it was fascinating to see how the scenario was played out.
As for the comment, "This expanded into the argument that first in / first treated was the only ethical way to manage a medical response to a disaster on this scale."
the thinking on this has come a long ways. Training for I got for my local CERT and for national Emergency Preparedness documents a tiered system. Everyone coming into a medical area gets triaged. You get a tag designating your treatment status. Those who are in critical condition and will recover/survive with immediate and minimal treatment are given priority. Those deemed urgent but can wait for a bit are next. The walking wounded are last. Those deemed likely to die with or without treatment or the treatment is beyond the capability of the staff and resources are blue tagged and made as comfortable as possible. You don't want to get your black tag, because that means your corpse is getting parked in the area with the other ones.
posted by Oh_Bobloblaw at 8:44 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
As for the comment, "This expanded into the argument that first in / first treated was the only ethical way to manage a medical response to a disaster on this scale."
the thinking on this has come a long ways. Training for I got for my local CERT and for national Emergency Preparedness documents a tiered system. Everyone coming into a medical area gets triaged. You get a tag designating your treatment status. Those who are in critical condition and will recover/survive with immediate and minimal treatment are given priority. Those deemed urgent but can wait for a bit are next. The walking wounded are last. Those deemed likely to die with or without treatment or the treatment is beyond the capability of the staff and resources are blue tagged and made as comfortable as possible. You don't want to get your black tag, because that means your corpse is getting parked in the area with the other ones.
posted by Oh_Bobloblaw at 8:44 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
People talk a lot about Boomer kids in the 1960s having to go under their desks for air raid drills, but not as many people talk about how us Gen X kids grew up in the 1980s with the belief that nuclear holocaust would happen any day.
I'm in my 50s and without seeing the link I was thinking about this again while making coffee this morning. The song that came to mind was from The Fixx, and not "Red Skies" but the sobering first verse of "Stand or Fall". (Not linking due to depressing nostalgia.) I do recall playground discussions back in 82, 83, about what we'd do with an hour's warning before the missiles fell. I grew up in Phoenix where there were no basements, but so much construction all around us there was afterschool playing in the skeletons of houses being built. I knew where the construction workers stashed the keys to the bulldozers, that was always my childish plan. Steal one, drive it to the supermarket, smash through a wall, get food, survive. But of course "there'll be nothing to do to... well be dead with you."
posted by Catblack at 8:44 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm in my 50s and without seeing the link I was thinking about this again while making coffee this morning. The song that came to mind was from The Fixx, and not "Red Skies" but the sobering first verse of "Stand or Fall". (Not linking due to depressing nostalgia.) I do recall playground discussions back in 82, 83, about what we'd do with an hour's warning before the missiles fell. I grew up in Phoenix where there were no basements, but so much construction all around us there was afterschool playing in the skeletons of houses being built. I knew where the construction workers stashed the keys to the bulldozers, that was always my childish plan. Steal one, drive it to the supermarket, smash through a wall, get food, survive. But of course "there'll be nothing to do to... well be dead with you."
posted by Catblack at 8:44 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
The side conversation here is that Gen X kids clearly had no supervision over our TV watching. We probably shouldn't have been watching shows about nuclear holocaust at age 10.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:44 AM on March 30, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:44 AM on March 30, 2022 [11 favorites]
aesop, how very very American of me to assume the wrong national capital. :)
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:46 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:46 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
Did anyone live in a town where this wasn't the claim? This was what every single Gen-Xer thought. In my town it was because we had a big Army R&D facility. "We're #5 on Russia's target list!" because, you know, when there's a war the first thing you take out are the people designing uniforms and tents.
For us it was the Hamilton Watch Company (timers for missiles) and Armstrong Flooring (something something important for missiles).
Looking back, yeah, that was pretty stupid, but we 100% believed it. And the worst thing is, it was comforting because after watching The Day After, the only thing you could walk away with is wiped out instantly > surviving and dying slowly.
posted by Mchelly at 8:52 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
For us it was the Hamilton Watch Company (timers for missiles) and Armstrong Flooring (something something important for missiles).
Looking back, yeah, that was pretty stupid, but we 100% believed it. And the worst thing is, it was comforting because after watching The Day After, the only thing you could walk away with is wiped out instantly > surviving and dying slowly.
posted by Mchelly at 8:52 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Re: targeting. When I was in the Canadian army in the late 80s, early 90s, I was told our expectation was that every population centre over 50,000 was a primary target, along with every military, gov't and communications site, in part because they just had so many missiles to spare.
posted by fatbird at 8:57 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by fatbird at 8:57 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
I grew up right outside a state capital, Trenton, in between NYC and Philadelphia, 12 miles from an US Air Force base that had nuclear weapons. We knew we were toast.
On preview, fatbird beat me to the idea, but I was going to say the USSR had so many warheads we were all probably right.
posted by mollweide at 9:01 AM on March 30, 2022
On preview, fatbird beat me to the idea, but I was going to say the USSR had so many warheads we were all probably right.
posted by mollweide at 9:01 AM on March 30, 2022
I grew up in Montreal. Our first early tentative they-wouldn't drop-them-here-would-they? understanding was quickly modified to the belief that since the nukes would all be headed toward the US over Canada, or headed towards the Soviet Union from the US through Canadian airspace, and since both sides would be shooting them down, they would mainly all just land on us. We figured both sides would rather Canada catch it, to prevent the bombs landing on their own people.
But then we learned about Tsar Bomba, and the consensus that if they drop six more the same size as the first test one in Novaya Zemlya, it was game over for everybody due to the radioactive dust, and a best case scenario involved a few rats surviving - mammals might survive if we were very lucky. So we soon came to the conclusion it was all moot. When the shooting starts we were all gunna die no matter where we were. Getting a direct hit would only make things faster.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:02 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
But then we learned about Tsar Bomba, and the consensus that if they drop six more the same size as the first test one in Novaya Zemlya, it was game over for everybody due to the radioactive dust, and a best case scenario involved a few rats surviving - mammals might survive if we were very lucky. So we soon came to the conclusion it was all moot. When the shooting starts we were all gunna die no matter where we were. Getting a direct hit would only make things faster.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:02 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
The side conversation here is that Gen X kids clearly had no supervision over our TV watching. We probably shouldn't have been watching shows about nuclear holocaust at age 10.
I dunno, I had a mild obsession with nuclear holocaust from about the age of 5, and an obscure fatalism that floated nearby throughout my entire life that there was another shoe about to drop any time hasn't plagued me ever since then. No sir, not at all.
posted by tclark at 9:13 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
I dunno, I had a mild obsession with nuclear holocaust from about the age of 5, and an obscure fatalism that floated nearby throughout my entire life that there was another shoe about to drop any time hasn't plagued me ever since then. No sir, not at all.
posted by tclark at 9:13 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
I’d never heard it as “we’re the #4 target for the Soviets” but rather that we were going to be hit in the first 15 minutes. Here, yeah, we were going to be a primary target. We have an Air Force base, which in the 80s had a GLCM squadron (ground launched cruise missiles, which were nuclear tipped and able to be quickly deployed to Europe.) The base still has A-10s, and the boneyard is part of the base as well, so that’s a key supply of parts. There’s also a power plant right outside the base. A few miles from the base, there’s an Air National Guard base with F-16s. Just south of that is a huge Raytheon plant, which has been making missiles for decades - the Iraq wars were very very good for them because they make Tomahawks, among several others. Also up until 1987 the city had 18 Titan II missile silos in a ring around the area, and these carried very high yield warheads. So yeah, we were under no illusions that the Soviets were going to decide not to waste some missiles on us. In the 500 warhead scenario map I’ve seen, there’s still two triangles over the city. We’re within a couple of miles of both of those points, so if the missiles fly, we’re gonna fry. (If you live near a major power plant, you’re probably a target.)
posted by azpenguin at 9:20 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 9:20 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
Relevant AskMeFi: Americans: Was your town a [rumored] Cold War missile target?
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:45 AM on March 30, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:45 AM on March 30, 2022 [12 favorites]
Didn't we have a thread once about the whole "we've be the first to go because the factory down the road makes the detonators for missiles / ball bearings for tanks / lunch snack boxes for the army" statements that people make - like someone had collected them all and it was a darkly hilarious list that pretty much had almost every city of any size in the US on it. Maybe misremembering.
Also I linked to an article yesterday about the nuclear sponge states (the parts of Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska, South Dakota, and Colorado with ICBM silos - which have been hardened in a way that a nuclear strike would need to send the majority of warheads there - several needed per silo - to avoid a counter strike). While reading about that I found *so many* prepper sites with maps of the best places to survive etc. But who really wants to survive a 2000 missile strike on the US?
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:47 AM on March 30, 2022
Also I linked to an article yesterday about the nuclear sponge states (the parts of Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska, South Dakota, and Colorado with ICBM silos - which have been hardened in a way that a nuclear strike would need to send the majority of warheads there - several needed per silo - to avoid a counter strike). While reading about that I found *so many* prepper sites with maps of the best places to survive etc. But who really wants to survive a 2000 missile strike on the US?
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:47 AM on March 30, 2022
After hitting post, it must have been that AskMe thread AzraelBrown just linked to. Thanks!
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:49 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:49 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Late gen x kid here who watched all the traumatizing movies and has never much believed in the future as a result. Except I somehow missed Special Bulletin - an oversight remedied just this morning after an early wakeup due to a nightmare (surprisingly the volcano one, not the flash one!) Thanks Metafilter!
My husband and I celebrated our 19th wedding anniversary by seeing Modern English play our favorite club Sunday night. I Melt with You has long been our song - it combines our joint and separate special interests so perfectly. Nuclear war, 4AD Records, Valley Girl. We Played it at our wedding. We always have the song available on our phones in case the bombs start. I knew my other favorite songs by them (16 Days, Gathering Dust) were about nuclear war but listening to them play the entire After the Snow album as well as some older stuff, it really felt like almost all of it could be interpreted that way.
Though that could just be where our thoughts are right now because of, well, everything? The band certainly leaned into the vibe with atomic tinged visuals and audio samples.
When we were driving home my husband started talking (in that weirdly proud way) about how far we live from the obvious targets…
posted by Lapin at 9:56 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
My husband and I celebrated our 19th wedding anniversary by seeing Modern English play our favorite club Sunday night. I Melt with You has long been our song - it combines our joint and separate special interests so perfectly. Nuclear war, 4AD Records, Valley Girl. We Played it at our wedding. We always have the song available on our phones in case the bombs start. I knew my other favorite songs by them (16 Days, Gathering Dust) were about nuclear war but listening to them play the entire After the Snow album as well as some older stuff, it really felt like almost all of it could be interpreted that way.
Though that could just be where our thoughts are right now because of, well, everything? The band certainly leaned into the vibe with atomic tinged visuals and audio samples.
When we were driving home my husband started talking (in that weirdly proud way) about how far we live from the obvious targets…
posted by Lapin at 9:56 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
Jane the Brown: I grew up in Montreal. Our first early tentative they-wouldn't drop-them-here-would-they? understanding was quickly modified to the belief that since the nukes would all be headed toward the US over Canada
Undoubtedly heading for Plattsburgh AFB, the northern-most SAC base that would be the last fueling/arming stop before attacking Russia over the North Pole. Definitely lost its cachet when the base was decommissioned in the late 90s, unless Champlain Center suddenly took on strategic importance.
posted by dr_dank at 10:15 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
Undoubtedly heading for Plattsburgh AFB, the northern-most SAC base that would be the last fueling/arming stop before attacking Russia over the North Pole. Definitely lost its cachet when the base was decommissioned in the late 90s, unless Champlain Center suddenly took on strategic importance.
posted by dr_dank at 10:15 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
Conversely, I grew up pretty far from anything anyone would bomb on purpose and was very aware of that. I was big on dytopian scifi where the mutated remnants of humanity raided irradiated cities for leftovers of the previous civilization.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:38 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 10:38 AM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
In retrospect, a surprising number of the pop hits of our childhoods were about nuclear annihilation. Nena's "99 Luftballons" and Genesis's "Land of Confusion" spring to mind as well.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:45 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:45 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
From Wikipedia - a list of Songs About Nuclear War.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:57 AM on March 30, 2022
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:57 AM on March 30, 2022
Another GenX here. I remember learning how Boomers were raised with bomb shelters and duck and cover, and being astonished that they actually thought they could survive. By the time I hit junior high (1980) schools and civil society just assumed we'd all die.
Props to Special Bulletin, which tried very hard to do two things at the same time: a realistic-looking newscast and a narrative running athwart it. I remember watching it and the horrible jolt when the bomb goes off.
posted by doctornemo at 11:30 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Props to Special Bulletin, which tried very hard to do two things at the same time: a realistic-looking newscast and a narrative running athwart it. I remember watching it and the horrible jolt when the bomb goes off.
posted by doctornemo at 11:30 AM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Indianapolis story:
Around 2010 a friend and I planned on going to a big national conference there. My pal lucked out and scored a chain hotel room a block away from the conference center.
But the day before the event the hotel told us they'd screwed up the reservation and didn't have a room there. So they offered us one in another property to the east of downtown, along with free shuttle and food. We didn't have much of a choice and took it.
The place was pretty shabby and the food vile. Late one night, after a full day's conference goings on, I stayed up late and checked local news online. There was a shooting in a nearby mall, and the shooter was still on the loose. Check Google Maps - the mall was 5 minutes away.
The next morning we groggily boarded the shuttle. No news on shooter. I asked the shuttle driver if these things happened a lot in this area.
She thought about it. "Did you say [name of mall]? Weird. Active shooters are usually at [name of other mall, 10 minutes away]."
posted by doctornemo at 11:38 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
Around 2010 a friend and I planned on going to a big national conference there. My pal lucked out and scored a chain hotel room a block away from the conference center.
But the day before the event the hotel told us they'd screwed up the reservation and didn't have a room there. So they offered us one in another property to the east of downtown, along with free shuttle and food. We didn't have much of a choice and took it.
The place was pretty shabby and the food vile. Late one night, after a full day's conference goings on, I stayed up late and checked local news online. There was a shooting in a nearby mall, and the shooter was still on the loose. Check Google Maps - the mall was 5 minutes away.
The next morning we groggily boarded the shuttle. No news on shooter. I asked the shuttle driver if these things happened a lot in this area.
She thought about it. "Did you say [name of mall]? Weird. Active shooters are usually at [name of other mall, 10 minutes away]."
posted by doctornemo at 11:38 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
Well, I just made a total double post, so let me share two pieces of reporting from when the Mighty Derringer documents were declassified in 2012: NBC and Unredacted.
posted by box at 11:38 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 11:38 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Back to TFA - that's a nice clip for the time.
I could nitpick, as the "anchor" mumbled a bit and the helicopter sequence was too loud to understand. But I felt that old terror when the fireball went up. It would have worked well for the exercise.
posted by doctornemo at 11:39 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I could nitpick, as the "anchor" mumbled a bit and the helicopter sequence was too loud to understand. But I felt that old terror when the fireball went up. It would have worked well for the exercise.
posted by doctornemo at 11:39 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Hahaha, my hometown is known for it's work on nukes and my mom's boyfriend is a retired nuclear physicist. My mom told me they didn't bother with bomb shelters here because we'd definitely be the first town to go.
(added here because I can't update in 2009!)
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:33 PM on March 30, 2022
(added here because I can't update in 2009!)
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:33 PM on March 30, 2022
Soviet warhead count peaked at 40,000. Direct half at america ( and half at the rest of nato) and because of inaccuracy and failure rates, target each location with 20 warheads, so 1000 targets.
55 states/territories. ~20 cities per state. Look at a list of cities by population, go ahead and choose texas or california or a really big/populated state. Have you even heard of the 20th place on the list? its targeted with 20 warheads. Can you even name 5 cities in some of the other states?
we have 5x fewer warheads now, but much better gps and targeting systems so instead of 20 warheads per target make it 4. Same situation. To this day, every siginificant location in the world is nukable. More countries have the capability too.
The nuclear genie never went away, our attention did. Its why we build sprawl instead of cities, networks instead of hubs, flimsy stick housing instead of enduring brick. Why invest more than necessary in such a nukeable target
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 12:43 PM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
55 states/territories. ~20 cities per state. Look at a list of cities by population, go ahead and choose texas or california or a really big/populated state. Have you even heard of the 20th place on the list? its targeted with 20 warheads. Can you even name 5 cities in some of the other states?
we have 5x fewer warheads now, but much better gps and targeting systems so instead of 20 warheads per target make it 4. Same situation. To this day, every siginificant location in the world is nukable. More countries have the capability too.
The nuclear genie never went away, our attention did. Its why we build sprawl instead of cities, networks instead of hubs, flimsy stick housing instead of enduring brick. Why invest more than necessary in such a nukeable target
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 12:43 PM on March 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's impressive how much the cultural understanding of the concept of "nuclear war" in the West has been shaped by a relatively small number of media artifacts.
For modern audiences, it's Terminator 2. Or Grave Of The Fireflies. Maybe Dr. Strangelove. For a slightly-older generation it was Threads (which doesn't get shown too much anymore). Before that, The Day After. Fail-Safe. On the Beach.
What they have in common is not that they are nuclear war stories as much as they are nuclear holocaust stories—a specific modern, secular eschatology.
There's little agreement on what happens in the post-apocalypse (fun version: Thunderdome! not-fun version: tortured endlessly! mixed-bag version: radical feminist neobarbarians!), but there seems to be a cultural consensus in the west, since at least the late 1960s, that a nuclear war was definitionally unwinnable, and thus became a sort of shorthand for the End of Everything.
I think the media narrative is worth understanding (and there's good writing about it), but I admit to not really understanding the competing Soviet-era or immediate postsoviet narrative, which could potentially be... quite different.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:20 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
For modern audiences, it's Terminator 2. Or Grave Of The Fireflies. Maybe Dr. Strangelove. For a slightly-older generation it was Threads (which doesn't get shown too much anymore). Before that, The Day After. Fail-Safe. On the Beach.
What they have in common is not that they are nuclear war stories as much as they are nuclear holocaust stories—a specific modern, secular eschatology.
There's little agreement on what happens in the post-apocalypse (fun version: Thunderdome! not-fun version: tortured endlessly! mixed-bag version: radical feminist neobarbarians!), but there seems to be a cultural consensus in the west, since at least the late 1960s, that a nuclear war was definitionally unwinnable, and thus became a sort of shorthand for the End of Everything.
I think the media narrative is worth understanding (and there's good writing about it), but I admit to not really understanding the competing Soviet-era or immediate postsoviet narrative, which could potentially be... quite different.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:20 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
All I can do is quote from the last song Bowie performed on stage, "Fantastic Voyage":
We're learning to live with somebody's depression
And I don't want to live with somebody's depression
We'll get by, I suppose...
...But that's no reason
To shoot some of those missiles
Think of us as fatherless scum
It won't be forgotten
'Cause we'll never say anything nice again
Will we?
posted by credulous at 1:25 PM on March 30, 2022
We're learning to live with somebody's depression
And I don't want to live with somebody's depression
We'll get by, I suppose...
...But that's no reason
To shoot some of those missiles
Think of us as fatherless scum
It won't be forgotten
'Cause we'll never say anything nice again
Will we?
posted by credulous at 1:25 PM on March 30, 2022
I really should point out that this is a nuclear terrorist thread, based on the content of the actual post, and the nuclear war post is over here.
posted by hippybear at 1:29 PM on March 30, 2022
posted by hippybear at 1:29 PM on March 30, 2022
Meanwhile, the Three Mile Island post is here.
(And, while it's not a new post, here' is a deep dive (sorry) into nuclear submarines.)
posted by box at 1:41 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
(And, while it's not a new post, here' is a deep dive (sorry) into nuclear submarines.)
posted by box at 1:41 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
So much nuclear dread on The Blue at once! I feel so seen!
posted by hippybear at 1:44 PM on March 30, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 1:44 PM on March 30, 2022 [10 favorites]
[T]here seems to be a cultural consensus in the west, since at least the late 1960s, that a nuclear war was definitionally unwinnable, and thus became a sort of shorthand for the End of Everything.
"The only winning move is not to play."
(And that was a PG movie about teenagers.)
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 2:45 PM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
"The only winning move is not to play."
(And that was a PG movie about teenagers.)
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 2:45 PM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
1976 'Air Force Now
U.S Air Force Nuclear Attack Preparedness Procedures
Self- Preservation in a Atomic Bomb Attack.
The Day called X- Nuclear Attack on Portland Oregon.
What would it look like if Hiroshima bomb hit Detroit?
posted by clavdivs at 2:55 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
U.S Air Force Nuclear Attack Preparedness Procedures
Self- Preservation in a Atomic Bomb Attack.
The Day called X- Nuclear Attack on Portland Oregon.
What would it look like if Hiroshima bomb hit Detroit?
posted by clavdivs at 2:55 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
For all the Gen Xers, but particularly aesop and any other Scots, how about the song Cassiopeia by Karine Polwart about this very thing. (Although a petrochemical facility rather than an army HQ).
posted by lewiseason at 3:52 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by lewiseason at 3:52 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
but there seems to be a cultural consensus in the west, since at least the late 1960s, that a nuclear war was definitionally unwinnable, and thus became a sort of shorthand for the End of EverythingWhile I agree that this is true, Fail-Safe presented a scenario which was explicitly Not This. In that narrative, New York and Moscow had been destroyed by thermonuclear bombs but the rest of the world was intact.
posted by Juffo-Wup at 3:59 PM on March 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
wow fake stories no way.
posted by firstdaffodils at 5:05 PM on March 30, 2022
posted by firstdaffodils at 5:05 PM on March 30, 2022
"At least we got Terre Haute...India...na"
posted by kirkaracha at 5:08 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:08 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom."
posted by kirkaracha at 5:10 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:10 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't think Fail-Safe ever resolved what happened to the world after NYC got the bomb. I imagine a sequel would involve either global elimination of all nuclear weapons, or the failure to do so. I can't imagine either scenario would be easy or bloodless.
posted by credulous at 5:43 PM on March 30, 2022
posted by credulous at 5:43 PM on March 30, 2022
Wow, I thought that AskMe thread was much more recent than 2009.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 6:01 PM on March 30, 2022
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 6:01 PM on March 30, 2022
With respect to
As an example, have a look at the NukeMap. Put the marker on a city you’re familiar with and pick the precomputed explosion that’s currently in Russia’s arsenal (“Topol”). How many people do you know who have a daily commute that’s larger than the damage radius? I live in a bedroom community near a state capitol; if the capitol were targeted, I’d lose a lot of friends but it looks like my house would stay up.
I was talking about this recently and was told (but haven’t verified) that the Soviet attack strategy became known after the USSR collapsed in the nineties. The plan was not indiscriminate destruction, but targeting of power generation, logistical centers for agricultural products, and destruction or contamination of reservoirs. The goal wasn’t instant annihilation, but to arrange so that the survivors couldn’t get food or water.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 6:42 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
The nuclear genie never went away, our attention did. Its why we build sprawl instead of cities, networks instead of hubs, flimsy stick housing instead of enduring brick.followed by
What they have in common is not that they are nuclear war stories as much as they are nuclear holocaust stories—a specific modern, secular eschatology.My fear is that, if there is ever another hostile nuclear explosion, it will not be a holocaust. Many of the people who spent the twentieth century rightly concerned about mutually-assured destruction will feel cheated or lied to, like my former friend who told me that COVID wasn’t a pandemic because a real pandemic, like plague or ebola, has a 10% or higher fatality rate. Some people will survive a nuclear attack, and that’ll convince black-and-white thinkers that a nuclear attack is survivable.
As an example, have a look at the NukeMap. Put the marker on a city you’re familiar with and pick the precomputed explosion that’s currently in Russia’s arsenal (“Topol”). How many people do you know who have a daily commute that’s larger than the damage radius? I live in a bedroom community near a state capitol; if the capitol were targeted, I’d lose a lot of friends but it looks like my house would stay up.
I was talking about this recently and was told (but haven’t verified) that the Soviet attack strategy became known after the USSR collapsed in the nineties. The plan was not indiscriminate destruction, but targeting of power generation, logistical centers for agricultural products, and destruction or contamination of reservoirs. The goal wasn’t instant annihilation, but to arrange so that the survivors couldn’t get food or water.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 6:42 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've heard competing theories about what the Soviet attack strategy was in an all-out war against the US. It is possible that they had multiple targeting options, to allow for both "counterforce" (targeting US ICBM bases and command-and-control centers almost exclusively, with large numbers of warheads per target to get through potential ABM defenses) and "countervalue" (targeting civilian/national infrastructure like cities, power generation, industrial facilities, harbors, etc.) options. We know the US went back and forth between the two extremes several times during the Cold War. My guess is that the Soviets covered both bases by having some weapons selected for counterforce, with a strategic reserve of high-yield revenge weapons targeted for countervalue. (That's basically what NATO has, when taken as a whole.)
This just furthers the general point, which is that nobody knows how a nuclear war would actually go. It's entirely possible that you could have a tit-for-tat counterforce nuclear war with tactical or theater weapons that wouldn't escalate into strategic counter-value strikes, because nobody really wants to invite that sort of retaliation on their own civilian population.
The Hollywood obsession with nuclear-war-as-holocaust eschatological navelgazing, entertaining as it is, leaves out a lot of other possibilities of how wars might happen.
If Putin decides to nuke some forestland in rural Ukraine, just to remind everyone that he still has a big nuclear dick to wave around, is NATO likely to respond with an all-out, strategic countervalue strike on Russia, and thus bring about the end times? Probably not. (Heck, I've always questioned whether the US would launch a strategic countervalue attack on Russia if they annihilated all of Western Europe with SS-20s some morning. A life without BMWs and Gewürztraminer is a sad one, but once it's gone, what's to be gained by getting North America glassed? This is presumably why the British and the French have always insisted on their own independent nuclear forces; I would too, if I were them.)
Anyway, all this is coming around to my more general point: we have to be careful not to look at nuclear war solely through the lens of popular culture, because it excludes some scenarios that the creators of popular media in the West really don't like to admit exist, e.g. the possibility of a "winnable" regional nuclear war.
There are parallels in the scientific community: the entire concept of "nuclear winter" has always had its skeptics and detractors, but at times it's been considered pretty déclassé to question it, particularly with people as charming as Carl Sagan involved. (Who wants to argue with Carl Fucking Sagan? It'd be like kicking a puppy in a turtleneck.) But as it turns out, much of Sagan's original nuclear winter work was later reassessed. Nuclear war, as it turns out, probably wouldn't bring on the Fimbulvinter. The actual effects are, unsurprisingly, pretty complicated.
Personally, if I were a betting man (and I do enjoy a flutter on the ponies now and then), I'd put the odds of a nuclear weapon being detonated in anger in my remaining lifetime at something like 50%. I think that as the world becomes more multipolar, people are going to realize that the apocalyptic NATO/WP scenarios don't encompass every possibility, and as those other possibilities are explored, eventually someone will decide the game is worth the candle.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:55 PM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
This just furthers the general point, which is that nobody knows how a nuclear war would actually go. It's entirely possible that you could have a tit-for-tat counterforce nuclear war with tactical or theater weapons that wouldn't escalate into strategic counter-value strikes, because nobody really wants to invite that sort of retaliation on their own civilian population.
The Hollywood obsession with nuclear-war-as-holocaust eschatological navelgazing, entertaining as it is, leaves out a lot of other possibilities of how wars might happen.
If Putin decides to nuke some forestland in rural Ukraine, just to remind everyone that he still has a big nuclear dick to wave around, is NATO likely to respond with an all-out, strategic countervalue strike on Russia, and thus bring about the end times? Probably not. (Heck, I've always questioned whether the US would launch a strategic countervalue attack on Russia if they annihilated all of Western Europe with SS-20s some morning. A life without BMWs and Gewürztraminer is a sad one, but once it's gone, what's to be gained by getting North America glassed? This is presumably why the British and the French have always insisted on their own independent nuclear forces; I would too, if I were them.)
Anyway, all this is coming around to my more general point: we have to be careful not to look at nuclear war solely through the lens of popular culture, because it excludes some scenarios that the creators of popular media in the West really don't like to admit exist, e.g. the possibility of a "winnable" regional nuclear war.
There are parallels in the scientific community: the entire concept of "nuclear winter" has always had its skeptics and detractors, but at times it's been considered pretty déclassé to question it, particularly with people as charming as Carl Sagan involved. (Who wants to argue with Carl Fucking Sagan? It'd be like kicking a puppy in a turtleneck.) But as it turns out, much of Sagan's original nuclear winter work was later reassessed. Nuclear war, as it turns out, probably wouldn't bring on the Fimbulvinter. The actual effects are, unsurprisingly, pretty complicated.
Personally, if I were a betting man (and I do enjoy a flutter on the ponies now and then), I'd put the odds of a nuclear weapon being detonated in anger in my remaining lifetime at something like 50%. I think that as the world becomes more multipolar, people are going to realize that the apocalyptic NATO/WP scenarios don't encompass every possibility, and as those other possibilities are explored, eventually someone will decide the game is worth the candle.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:55 PM on March 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
From Wikipedia - a list of Songs About Nuclear War.
I already posted this elsewhere, but they blanked on Mother's Talk.
Also, it seems like many a hardcore band (esp. the UKHC bands) had at least one song about nuclear war in their repertoire (Chaos UK's "Four Minute Warning", Vice Squad's "Last Rockers", Abrasive Wheels' "Attack", etc.)
posted by gtrwolf at 8:22 PM on March 31, 2022
I already posted this elsewhere, but they blanked on Mother's Talk.
Also, it seems like many a hardcore band (esp. the UKHC bands) had at least one song about nuclear war in their repertoire (Chaos UK's "Four Minute Warning", Vice Squad's "Last Rockers", Abrasive Wheels' "Attack", etc.)
posted by gtrwolf at 8:22 PM on March 31, 2022
Also, I'd be surprised if there hasn't been at least one band that's sampled the "We'll be spared the horror of survival" line from War Games (speaking of 80's nuclear-dread nostalgia)
The only winning move....
posted by gtrwolf at 8:26 PM on March 31, 2022
The only winning move....
posted by gtrwolf at 8:26 PM on March 31, 2022
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The video was interesting. At least they actually showed downtown Indy, instead of some stock footage of “american city.” The reporter’s reference of “the speedway” is Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:03 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]