How the Sausage McMuffin Gets Made
April 24, 2022 5:33 AM Subscribe
The Utah Democratic Party votes to endorse independent candidate Evan McMullin over their own candidate, Kael Weston (statement), in his race against Senator Mike Lee.
If McMullin pledges to caucus with Republicans and reiterates his former unambiguously pro-life stance, he won't get any big Democratic Party money. The money and other support he gets from the anti-MAGA GOP in exile in that case will be an interesting test of how serious it is ... or frankly whether or not it exists beyond DC cocktail party chatter. Not sure McMullin even wants Romney's endorsement, but that would also be telling. If the support comes in, he could very well win.
If McMullin pledges to caucus with Democrats or refuses to say what he'll do, and goes the full Cuomo on abortion ("personally opposed" etc.), he'll raise $50 million in Democratic Party money, and still lose, if maybe by something less than top-of-the-ticket Democrats usually do.
posted by MattD at 7:09 AM on April 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
If McMullin pledges to caucus with Democrats or refuses to say what he'll do, and goes the full Cuomo on abortion ("personally opposed" etc.), he'll raise $50 million in Democratic Party money, and still lose, if maybe by something less than top-of-the-ticket Democrats usually do.
posted by MattD at 7:09 AM on April 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm not from Utah and not a Democrat, but wish I was at that convention. Sounds like it was hoot.
posted by riruro at 8:43 AM on April 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by riruro at 8:43 AM on April 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't know how this election will go but I wanted to appreciate your very well-done post title.
posted by corb at 8:44 AM on April 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:44 AM on April 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
There will never be viable Democratic Party candidates in Utah as long as the Democratic Party keeps abandoning them for any Republican that doesn't have a nazi memorabilia room in their house.
posted by srboisvert at 8:47 AM on April 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 8:47 AM on April 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
Is this a pattern, srboisvert?
posted by Selena777 at 9:00 AM on April 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 9:00 AM on April 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
If I were a Utah voter, I’d love the chance to have any viable candidate to vote for against Mike Lee. This is Mike “fuck legitimate election results I don’t like” Lee, I don’t know what kind of policy compromises I wouldn’t be willing to make to vote for a candidate with a chance in hell of winning (i.e., not a democrat). McMilllan wouldn’t even be a hard choice for me, I don’t have to like a guy’s policies to vote for them, I just have to think they’re the best choice among realistic possibilities.
posted by skewed at 10:39 AM on April 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by skewed at 10:39 AM on April 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
Louisiana Democratic party did this, endorsed a centrist Republican for Governor.
They were running against Vitter, who had a lot of Russian cash, and is now a Russian lobbyist.
And they lost to the Democratic candidate. Lol! Like a double democrat negative!
.
posted by eustatic at 10:55 AM on April 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
They were running against Vitter, who had a lot of Russian cash, and is now a Russian lobbyist.
And they lost to the Democratic candidate. Lol! Like a double democrat negative!
.
posted by eustatic at 10:55 AM on April 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
I lived in Utah from 1998-2006. I saw the Democratic party go from minority to unable to stop a Republican supermajority due to gerrymandering. And it’s only gotten worse since I left. Has any Democratic candidate running for statewide office polled over 40% in the last 15 years?
Putting up a Democratic candidate to beat Mike Lee is a fool’s errand. Supporting a candidate who at least stands for democratic principles might not be.
It is dark days in the republic, friends. First, you have to put out the fire before you can talk about rebuilding.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 11:57 AM on April 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
Putting up a Democratic candidate to beat Mike Lee is a fool’s errand. Supporting a candidate who at least stands for democratic principles might not be.
It is dark days in the republic, friends. First, you have to put out the fire before you can talk about rebuilding.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 11:57 AM on April 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
Utah is one of the states where I feel this particular type of thing is the least bad option by a long shot. An R+13 state will under no circumstances send someone friendly to a progressive agenda to congress, but a choice between a seditionist adversary who worked to cripple democracy in this republic and an adversary who loudly opposes that sedition.... give me McMullin every day of the week. All arguments against McMullin boil down to one form or another of accelerationism, a bankrupt yet not uncommon political philosophy of the US left.
posted by tclark at 5:06 PM on April 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by tclark at 5:06 PM on April 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
I live in Utah. This is the least bad option. Don’t like it, but until the demographics change (and they are starting to) anyone but Mike Insurrection Lee.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:37 PM on April 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:37 PM on April 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
tclark, accelerationism is far from unique to the left
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism seems to suggest that "left-wing accelerationism" is a thing in itself, while "accelerationism" is attributed in its "basic ideas and concepts" to Nick Land, whom I consider a right-wing authoritarian.
Left-wing accelerationism seems fairly theoretical, right-wing accelerationism has a body count and a bill for damages, with actual people in prison right now for doing those things with that stated motivation. The only examples of possible left-wing accelerationist terrorism I can think of (none are listed in the link above) is the acts of the Symbionese Liberation Army, and the Tate-LaBianca murders (I don't know the politics of those perpetrators, but they did live in a "commune".)
It's a lot easier to do the terrorisms when the cops ignore you or take your side. The history of left-wing movements in the US is mostly one of violent suppression by law-enforcement for things like riding buses, crossing bridges, sleeping outside, eating food, or speaking. The history of right-wing movements is quite different.
What is it that made you think it was a 'left wing' phenomenon, I wonder?
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 7:35 PM on April 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism seems to suggest that "left-wing accelerationism" is a thing in itself, while "accelerationism" is attributed in its "basic ideas and concepts" to Nick Land, whom I consider a right-wing authoritarian.
Left-wing accelerationism seems fairly theoretical, right-wing accelerationism has a body count and a bill for damages, with actual people in prison right now for doing those things with that stated motivation. The only examples of possible left-wing accelerationist terrorism I can think of (none are listed in the link above) is the acts of the Symbionese Liberation Army, and the Tate-LaBianca murders (I don't know the politics of those perpetrators, but they did live in a "commune".)
It's a lot easier to do the terrorisms when the cops ignore you or take your side. The history of left-wing movements in the US is mostly one of violent suppression by law-enforcement for things like riding buses, crossing bridges, sleeping outside, eating food, or speaking. The history of right-wing movements is quite different.
What is it that made you think it was a 'left wing' phenomenon, I wonder?
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 7:35 PM on April 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
What is it that made you think it was a 'left wing' phenomenon, I wonder?
I said it was a not-uncommon philosophy on the left, not that it either originated or is predominantly found on the left.
I don't know about you, and this is hardly the thread to relitigate 2016, but the stay-at-home crowd, when pressed on why they were planning to sit out the election said that things would get bad enough after Trump that America would wake up, or that there was no real difference between Trump and Clinton.
Anyone saying there's no real difference between Lee and McMullin is making the same error, and if there's any daylight between obstinately sticking with a Democrat with a virtually-guaranteed insurmountable campaign against a real, live, in the flesh insurrectionist and actual support of the insurrectionist himself, I don't see it. It's an accelerationist mindset.
posted by tclark at 8:04 PM on April 24, 2022
I said it was a not-uncommon philosophy on the left, not that it either originated or is predominantly found on the left.
I don't know about you, and this is hardly the thread to relitigate 2016, but the stay-at-home crowd, when pressed on why they were planning to sit out the election said that things would get bad enough after Trump that America would wake up, or that there was no real difference between Trump and Clinton.
Anyone saying there's no real difference between Lee and McMullin is making the same error, and if there's any daylight between obstinately sticking with a Democrat with a virtually-guaranteed insurmountable campaign against a real, live, in the flesh insurrectionist and actual support of the insurrectionist himself, I don't see it. It's an accelerationist mindset.
posted by tclark at 8:04 PM on April 24, 2022
I personally am way more sympathetic to the argument that there's no real difference between Trump and Biden than I was before the election, so I'm open to being persuaded about people further down the ticket.
Admittedly "willing to commit treason to stay in power" is a big difference, but the major difference while in power was that Trump kept threatening to do awful things while bad things kept happening, while Biden keeps saying the good things are unrealistic while bad things keep happening.
posted by Merus at 8:15 PM on April 24, 2022
Admittedly "willing to commit treason to stay in power" is a big difference, but the major difference while in power was that Trump kept threatening to do awful things while bad things kept happening, while Biden keeps saying the good things are unrealistic while bad things keep happening.
posted by Merus at 8:15 PM on April 24, 2022
Admittedly "willing to commit treason to stay in power" is a big difference, but
If you don't realize that's one of the very, very few differences that literally matters as to whether the US continues in its shaky, deeply problematic democracy or falling to actual no-shit fascist authoritarianism.... well, I guess this is what I was talking about when I said it was an example of the accelerationist mindset. The difference is, as much as you are disappointed with Biden, there will be more elections to battle.
Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett thank you for your disappointment.
posted by tclark at 8:24 PM on April 24, 2022 [11 favorites]
If you don't realize that's one of the very, very few differences that literally matters as to whether the US continues in its shaky, deeply problematic democracy or falling to actual no-shit fascist authoritarianism.... well, I guess this is what I was talking about when I said it was an example of the accelerationist mindset. The difference is, as much as you are disappointed with Biden, there will be more elections to battle.
Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett thank you for your disappointment.
posted by tclark at 8:24 PM on April 24, 2022 [11 favorites]
He is stridently anti-abortionist anti-choice. As far as I know that hasn't changed, so I'm really still kind of surprised at the social media lovefest for this guy, even here. Is there really no one in Utah who is a better human being and who doesn't value cruelty to women?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:36 AM on April 25, 2022
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:36 AM on April 25, 2022
Is there really no one in Utah who is a better human being and who doesn't value cruelty to women?
Sure. Lots of them. And none is electable in a state that's run by a misogynistreal-estate concern church whose leadership has gone all-in for the GOP.
posted by Etrigan at 8:54 AM on April 25, 2022
Sure. Lots of them. And none is electable in a state that's run by a misogynist
posted by Etrigan at 8:54 AM on April 25, 2022
Perhaps something has changed in the last few weeks, but at least based on a quick scan of late March 2022 polling, it doesn't look like this particular individual is electable. But, mainly, I remain puzzled by the love for this person, especially when the main difference between him and an insurrectionist like Lee is that he would work within the system to take away civil rights, as opposed to without. Fascism through a legal process is still Fascism.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:02 AM on April 25, 2022
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:02 AM on April 25, 2022
the main difference between him and an insurrectionist like Lee is that he would work within the system to take away civil rights, as opposed to without
No, the main difference is that with Lee, the system would be disposed of. Yes, give me an adversary who respects electoral defeat over an adversary with identical policies who will do away with electoral accountability altogether every day of the week.
Perhaps I'm too idealistic, but hell -- give me an adversary whose every policy is disgusting to me that will respect elections over an ally who will do away with elections and whose every policy is sunshine and roses.
MAGA world in a nutshell is "I'm OK with dismantling democracy and elections because Trump (says he) wants my sunshine and roses (read: humiliation and graves for degenerates)."
Real, valid, respected elections are the only hope for any future of a democracy. Above all else, above all policies, above literally everything, the respect for electoral victory or defeat and the peaceful transfer of power is the only hope for a better future. Even 6 years into the Trump era, you seem to fail to understand that democracy itself is still at risk.
posted by tclark at 9:20 AM on April 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
No, the main difference is that with Lee, the system would be disposed of. Yes, give me an adversary who respects electoral defeat over an adversary with identical policies who will do away with electoral accountability altogether every day of the week.
Perhaps I'm too idealistic, but hell -- give me an adversary whose every policy is disgusting to me that will respect elections over an ally who will do away with elections and whose every policy is sunshine and roses.
MAGA world in a nutshell is "I'm OK with dismantling democracy and elections because Trump (says he) wants my sunshine and roses (read: humiliation and graves for degenerates)."
Real, valid, respected elections are the only hope for any future of a democracy. Above all else, above all policies, above literally everything, the respect for electoral victory or defeat and the peaceful transfer of power is the only hope for a better future. Even 6 years into the Trump era, you seem to fail to understand that democracy itself is still at risk.
posted by tclark at 9:20 AM on April 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Yeah if a Democrat doesn't stand a chance in Utah that's *partly* culture war brainworms, but it's still a failure of the local and national Democratic parties.
Conversely if your takeaway from the last 5 years is "Trump Biden samesame" I can only assume you're either arguing in bad faith, or insulated from and/or ignorant of the very real consequences of the previous administration's actual policies, appointments, legislative actions, and diplomatic efforts.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:44 AM on April 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Conversely if your takeaway from the last 5 years is "Trump Biden samesame" I can only assume you're either arguing in bad faith, or insulated from and/or ignorant of the very real consequences of the previous administration's actual policies, appointments, legislative actions, and diplomatic efforts.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:44 AM on April 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Isn't the person endorsed by the democratic party the democratic candidate kind of by definition? I'm so confused by the US system, and most especially by what I'm told that a party cannot just kick someone out of the party. If they don't like their own candidate, why can't they kick him out so he's not a democrat anymore?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:03 AM on April 26, 2022
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:03 AM on April 26, 2022
There will never be viable Democratic Party candidates in Utah as long as the Democratic Party keeps abandoning them for any Republican that doesn't have a nazi memorabilia room in their house.
posted by srboisvert at 10:47 AM on April 24 [9 favorites +] [!]
Is this a pattern, srboisvert?
posted by Selena777 at 11:00 AM on April 24 [2 favorites +] [!]
Only for every single election of my politically aware life. There are always arguments for why exactly the Democratic Party should abandon the ostensible principles of the party in favor of some compromise because the current election is the one that will determine the fate of America and the compromise will attract the swing voters and persuade moderate Republicans.
posted by srboisvert at 4:32 PM on April 27, 2022
posted by srboisvert at 10:47 AM on April 24 [9 favorites +] [!]
Is this a pattern, srboisvert?
posted by Selena777 at 11:00 AM on April 24 [2 favorites +] [!]
Only for every single election of my politically aware life. There are always arguments for why exactly the Democratic Party should abandon the ostensible principles of the party in favor of some compromise because the current election is the one that will determine the fate of America and the compromise will attract the swing voters and persuade moderate Republicans.
posted by srboisvert at 4:32 PM on April 27, 2022
If you’re a Democrat living in Utah, chances are you live in Salt Lake County. Guess how many of Utah’s four congressional districts represent at least part of it?
All fucking four.
The state legislature did that after the 2000 census, when the Republicans secured control of both legislative bodies and the governor’s mansion after divided government through the 80s and early 90s. They cracked Democratic-leaning districts and transformed their simple majority to an unstoppable supermajority. Currently, the Utah senate is 23 R to 6 D. The house is 58 R to 17 D. Utah Democrats don’t pass laws. They can’t even slow down bad laws. They are reduced to giving impassioned speeches while the R majority does whatever the frick (Mormons don’t cuss) it wants.
Utah last had a Democratic US Senator in 1977. The last Democratic governor was in 1985. Whatever strategic errors the Democratic Party made were a generation ago. Go blame the people who were in charge then, if you must.
Right now, things are bad. The Utah Democratic Party can’t mount a viable candidate against anyone at the statewide level. The reason you’ve been getting the message about how every election is the most important ever is because that’s fucking true. As soon as you figure out the correct strategy against white Christian identity fascism, please let the rest of us know.
Because as bad as it is in Utah right now, I guarantee it is going to get worse.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 6:29 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
All fucking four.
The state legislature did that after the 2000 census, when the Republicans secured control of both legislative bodies and the governor’s mansion after divided government through the 80s and early 90s. They cracked Democratic-leaning districts and transformed their simple majority to an unstoppable supermajority. Currently, the Utah senate is 23 R to 6 D. The house is 58 R to 17 D. Utah Democrats don’t pass laws. They can’t even slow down bad laws. They are reduced to giving impassioned speeches while the R majority does whatever the frick (Mormons don’t cuss) it wants.
Utah last had a Democratic US Senator in 1977. The last Democratic governor was in 1985. Whatever strategic errors the Democratic Party made were a generation ago. Go blame the people who were in charge then, if you must.
Right now, things are bad. The Utah Democratic Party can’t mount a viable candidate against anyone at the statewide level. The reason you’ve been getting the message about how every election is the most important ever is because that’s fucking true. As soon as you figure out the correct strategy against white Christian identity fascism, please let the rest of us know.
Because as bad as it is in Utah right now, I guarantee it is going to get worse.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 6:29 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
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