The Trauma Of Homelessness Doesn’t End Under A Roof
August 29, 2022 7:45 PM Subscribe
Lori Teresa Yearwood interviews Salvador Chacon:
I asked Chacon if he is ever tempted to go back to the streets.
“All the time,” he said. “It was a lot easier for me on the streets—I knew how to cope better. Now I got this apartment and I’m stuck in my own mind.”
As each month passes, that fear gradually lessens. But other memories continue to stalk Chacon, even at the seemingly simplest of times. For example, when he stands in front of his kitchen sink, paralyzed by the childhood memories of his foster parents beating him and his older brother, then ages five and six, because the children failed to clean to the adults’ standards.
“I want to live in a clean place,” Chacon sobbed into the phone, “but I freeze and I don’t know what to do. It’s hard for me to function inside the house. It’s like there is something missing but I don’t know what it is.”
As each month passes, that fear gradually lessens. But other memories continue to stalk Chacon, even at the seemingly simplest of times. For example, when he stands in front of his kitchen sink, paralyzed by the childhood memories of his foster parents beating him and his older brother, then ages five and six, because the children failed to clean to the adults’ standards.
“I want to live in a clean place,” Chacon sobbed into the phone, “but I freeze and I don’t know what to do. It’s hard for me to function inside the house. It’s like there is something missing but I don’t know what it is.”
Not only are the issues resource based, but also emotionally charged, and it's too easy to forget about that
plus the extreme chronic sleep deprivation chewing your brain to bits
posted by Jacqueline at 8:15 PM on August 29, 2022 [20 favorites]
plus the extreme chronic sleep deprivation chewing your brain to bits
posted by Jacqueline at 8:15 PM on August 29, 2022 [20 favorites]
A fair number of people who enter supportive housing will sleep on the floor for days or weeks or even months because they still don’t feel safe enough to sleep on the bed,
That was hard to read.
posted by mhoye at 8:35 PM on August 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
That was hard to read.
posted by mhoye at 8:35 PM on August 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
The comments in article also brought back an enraging memory of a twitter thing from a few days ago where people would talk about how $20 was all they would need to get out of homelessness, that was so stunningly clueless and privileged.
Having in the past month thrown almost a thousand dollars into trying to keep some friends from becoming homeless and they’re still likely to become so in the next two weeks, this makes me want to scream.
posted by brook horse at 8:45 PM on August 29, 2022 [28 favorites]
Having in the past month thrown almost a thousand dollars into trying to keep some friends from becoming homeless and they’re still likely to become so in the next two weeks, this makes me want to scream.
posted by brook horse at 8:45 PM on August 29, 2022 [28 favorites]
these stories show why Housing First politically doesn't work, at least not where land costs as much as it does in LA.
with land costs and licensing and regulations in california, you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per person per supportive housing unit, and even if a few units somehow get built within budget without alienating the voters or locals (a long shot), the projects face protests from activists if they try to force people to live in them when they're not willing or emotionally prepared to do so--which alienates locals even more. and of the few who do agree to live there and get a chance to do so, a good portion fail to maintain because of drug problems, emotional problems, and bad people from their past who show up and fuck up their situation, leading to eviction.
in a place where land and building costs are cheap, Housing First maybe makes sense. but it's a limited solution. what this story shows is that people need a community. a few supportive folks go further than a billion dollars.
posted by wibari at 9:17 PM on August 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
with land costs and licensing and regulations in california, you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per person per supportive housing unit, and even if a few units somehow get built within budget without alienating the voters or locals (a long shot), the projects face protests from activists if they try to force people to live in them when they're not willing or emotionally prepared to do so--which alienates locals even more. and of the few who do agree to live there and get a chance to do so, a good portion fail to maintain because of drug problems, emotional problems, and bad people from their past who show up and fuck up their situation, leading to eviction.
in a place where land and building costs are cheap, Housing First maybe makes sense. but it's a limited solution. what this story shows is that people need a community. a few supportive folks go further than a billion dollars.
posted by wibari at 9:17 PM on August 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
a few supportive folks go further than a billion dollars.
Incorrect.
posted by praemunire at 9:47 PM on August 29, 2022 [13 favorites]
Incorrect.
posted by praemunire at 9:47 PM on August 29, 2022 [13 favorites]
A billion dollars can be used to pay for many supportive people.
posted by Braeburn at 10:01 PM on August 29, 2022 [36 favorites]
posted by Braeburn at 10:01 PM on August 29, 2022 [36 favorites]
...and roofs to put over heads.
posted by praemunire at 10:04 PM on August 29, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 10:04 PM on August 29, 2022 [15 favorites]
Thank you so much for posting this article.
Something that has continually baffled me is how a single bed in a shelter costs about as much as my rather nice apartment in a very expensive city, and 2-3 times as much as the studios available through something like aPodment. Following this line of (naive!) logic, dividing budget by unhoused people, would imply that the current homeless budget in my city is approximately enough to house everybody.
However, I hadn't really understood before how much additional help is required for some people to be even capable of living in an apartment. The bed detail is what got me the most -- I went through a period where I could sleep anywhere but the bed (for different reasons), even knowing that this behavior was totally irrational AND knowing where it came from. So, that clicked as a way of seeing "OH. What I think of as 'just living' can be a minefield of emotional triggers where something totally everyday and normal can be impossible."
posted by Metasyntactic at 10:43 PM on August 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Something that has continually baffled me is how a single bed in a shelter costs about as much as my rather nice apartment in a very expensive city, and 2-3 times as much as the studios available through something like aPodment. Following this line of (naive!) logic, dividing budget by unhoused people, would imply that the current homeless budget in my city is approximately enough to house everybody.
However, I hadn't really understood before how much additional help is required for some people to be even capable of living in an apartment. The bed detail is what got me the most -- I went through a period where I could sleep anywhere but the bed (for different reasons), even knowing that this behavior was totally irrational AND knowing where it came from. So, that clicked as a way of seeing "OH. What I think of as 'just living' can be a minefield of emotional triggers where something totally everyday and normal can be impossible."
posted by Metasyntactic at 10:43 PM on August 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Housing First works if it's not just Housing Only. The issue that is that most jurisdictions do Housing Only and then claim that Housing First doesn't work. The whole point of Housing First is that it's not just only housing.
posted by lapis at 11:00 PM on August 29, 2022 [35 favorites]
posted by lapis at 11:00 PM on August 29, 2022 [35 favorites]
The podcast 99% Invisible did a great series on this last year, According To Need. The final chapter covers a woman who gets the unicorn miracle of qualifying for housing in Berkeley, and a big chunk of the episode is around her (and a hero caseworker) overcoming her internal resistance to actually moving into it. One key factor was her social network in the encampment she lived in; it took listening to the episode to help clue me in to the fact that someone who has all of their belongings thrown into dump trucks on an unpredictable basis by government workers is going to have a much different view on the importance of retaining those social ties than I might.
posted by Superilla at 11:33 PM on August 29, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by Superilla at 11:33 PM on August 29, 2022 [22 favorites]
Some of these observations point to a different approach: rather than trying to re-home one individual at a time, why not approach the situation as “families” of unhoused people, and work to house small 5-10 houseless communities at the same time into the same same location?
And while in no way discounting that houselessness is frequently tied to people who have experienced trauma, I can tell you that going from living outdoors to a place with walls and right angles is…. weird. I spent one year camping across the US, and when that year was over, it took me a long time to acclimate to living indoors. Even after securing an apartment, I moved myself in, and immediately booked a campsite nearby for the first week. It took me months to feel comfortable sleeping indoors - it felt so unnatural. So, why not also make sure that these tiny homes have a small fenced in patio or garden area where a new resident can pitch their tent if they need to be outside for a while? For some people - and even tho I have not been houseless, I put myself in this category - sleeping outdoors IS security and comfort, and even in my small apartment, my main room is very sparsely furnished so that, when the need hits, I can set up my sleeping pad on the floor and sleep there. It’s… naïve? arrogant? to default to the idea that everyone should want four walls with right angles and to sleep in a bed all the time, and again, acknowledging lived trauma, I’d caution against pathologizing not wanting to sleep in a bed.
posted by Silvery Fish at 3:38 AM on August 30, 2022 [23 favorites]
And while in no way discounting that houselessness is frequently tied to people who have experienced trauma, I can tell you that going from living outdoors to a place with walls and right angles is…. weird. I spent one year camping across the US, and when that year was over, it took me a long time to acclimate to living indoors. Even after securing an apartment, I moved myself in, and immediately booked a campsite nearby for the first week. It took me months to feel comfortable sleeping indoors - it felt so unnatural. So, why not also make sure that these tiny homes have a small fenced in patio or garden area where a new resident can pitch their tent if they need to be outside for a while? For some people - and even tho I have not been houseless, I put myself in this category - sleeping outdoors IS security and comfort, and even in my small apartment, my main room is very sparsely furnished so that, when the need hits, I can set up my sleeping pad on the floor and sleep there. It’s… naïve? arrogant? to default to the idea that everyone should want four walls with right angles and to sleep in a bed all the time, and again, acknowledging lived trauma, I’d caution against pathologizing not wanting to sleep in a bed.
posted by Silvery Fish at 3:38 AM on August 30, 2022 [23 favorites]
with land costs and licensing and regulations in california, you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per person per supportive housing unit, and even if a few units somehow get built within budget without alienating the voters or locals (a long shot),
Sounds like California should make it easier to build housing and give "locals" (are unhoused people not also locals?) fewer veto points during the process.
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 4:47 AM on August 30, 2022 [11 favorites]
Sounds like California should make it easier to build housing and give "locals" (are unhoused people not also locals?) fewer veto points during the process.
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 4:47 AM on August 30, 2022 [11 favorites]
I'm still hoping we could dispose of the notion that fixing homelessness is easy, as well meaning people seem to insist in every thread about homelessness. Even by people who claim to work with homeless populations. What at first seems to be a complicated problem becomes unbearably complex the more you think about it. The worst part is you can devote huge amounts of resources to fixing the problem and still face a notable portion of the homeless population that has significant motivation to not take advantage of any of those resources.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:09 AM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by 2N2222 at 5:09 AM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Sounds like California should make it easier to build housing and give "locals" (are unhoused people not also locals?) fewer veto points during the process.
Other states have quite literally been dumping their homeless in California for decades. You're not wrong, but specifically in California the situation has been exacerbated by non-Californian decisions.
posted by mhoye at 5:54 AM on August 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
Other states have quite literally been dumping their homeless in California for decades. You're not wrong, but specifically in California the situation has been exacerbated by non-Californian decisions.
posted by mhoye at 5:54 AM on August 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
A gentle reminder that there are currently and formerly unhoused mefites. Please be mindful of not making this thread hostile for us to participate in.
posted by Bottlecap at 6:19 AM on August 30, 2022 [42 favorites]
posted by Bottlecap at 6:19 AM on August 30, 2022 [42 favorites]
I know this guy, he did seven years for armed robbery, then he was homeless for twenty years, now he's been in a house for five years.
When he was homeless he'd come around to my place with a heap of pot. This was his way of paying rent. We'd smoke all the pot, play games, watch movies and eat food. Then he would go outside to the patio to sleep on the floor. He didn't want to sleep inside.
This guy doesn't explain himself much, and that's ok. Though he did say 'I got locked up once' when I asked him about it.
He fucking loves instant coffee. No time for spoons, he'd tap out a couple shakes directly from the jar. 'Keeps you awake'.
He's housed now which is great. He's into qanon, which isn't. We don't talk about it. He's still good company.
posted by adept256 at 6:19 AM on August 30, 2022 [15 favorites]
When he was homeless he'd come around to my place with a heap of pot. This was his way of paying rent. We'd smoke all the pot, play games, watch movies and eat food. Then he would go outside to the patio to sleep on the floor. He didn't want to sleep inside.
This guy doesn't explain himself much, and that's ok. Though he did say 'I got locked up once' when I asked him about it.
He fucking loves instant coffee. No time for spoons, he'd tap out a couple shakes directly from the jar. 'Keeps you awake'.
He's housed now which is great. He's into qanon, which isn't. We don't talk about it. He's still good company.
posted by adept256 at 6:19 AM on August 30, 2022 [15 favorites]
I think that a lot of homelessness problems could be approached by talking to unhoused people and taking the lead from what they say they need. Some of what people want may not be possible, but I imagine that most of it is. The one thing that seems pretty clear is that different people are going to have different needs and therefore different kinds of support are needed.
This always reminds me that actually fixing social problems requires breaking the system because we don't live in a system that is designed to ask people what they need and then provide it; we live in a system which is designed to allot people something and then make as much money as possible from giving it out in a heavily policed manner.
I feel like society encourages me to think "but if we ask people what they want they will all want crystal unicorn palaces in the sky we can't do that" but in general I think most people have a fairly modest and realistic sense of their own needs, especially when they are in community with others. I know that I am encouraged to believe that the most important people in allocating resources are professionals, not people who need the resources - and that the most important professionals are the highest-paid ones who are the most removed from the community.
posted by Frowner at 6:36 AM on August 30, 2022 [29 favorites]
This always reminds me that actually fixing social problems requires breaking the system because we don't live in a system that is designed to ask people what they need and then provide it; we live in a system which is designed to allot people something and then make as much money as possible from giving it out in a heavily policed manner.
I feel like society encourages me to think "but if we ask people what they want they will all want crystal unicorn palaces in the sky we can't do that" but in general I think most people have a fairly modest and realistic sense of their own needs, especially when they are in community with others. I know that I am encouraged to believe that the most important people in allocating resources are professionals, not people who need the resources - and that the most important professionals are the highest-paid ones who are the most removed from the community.
posted by Frowner at 6:36 AM on August 30, 2022 [29 favorites]
That was a heartbreaking read. It's so easy to think that there must be simple answers -- more money, more houses -- but how do you solve a problem like homelessness when so little of it has to do with homes.
Also: $250 a month for disability? Is that a typical disability cheque? That seems insane.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:40 AM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also: $250 a month for disability? Is that a typical disability cheque? That seems insane.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:40 AM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also: $250 a month for disability? Is that a typical disability cheque? That seems insane.
Sounds about right from the multiple friends I have living off disability. The financial forced poverty of disability payments is its own deeply horrifying and soul-crushing kettle of fish.
posted by sciatrix at 6:46 AM on August 30, 2022 [15 favorites]
Sounds about right from the multiple friends I have living off disability. The financial forced poverty of disability payments is its own deeply horrifying and soul-crushing kettle of fish.
posted by sciatrix at 6:46 AM on August 30, 2022 [15 favorites]
Other states have quite literally been dumping their homeless in California for decades.
This article from the NY Times refutes that - it says 18% moved from somewhere else, and 60+% in LA and SF had lived in LA or SF specifically respectively for more than 10 years.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:05 AM on August 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
This article from the NY Times refutes that - it says 18% moved from somewhere else, and 60+% in LA and SF had lived in LA or SF specifically respectively for more than 10 years.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:05 AM on August 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
$250 a month for disability? Is that a typical disability cheque? That seems insane.
Disability payments in the U.S. are quite low. This number does seem odd, however. He presumably never worked enough to qualify for SSDI, which is the program you pay into if you are working (above the table). The absolute bottom of the safety net, SSI, for people who are disabled without an adequate work history, pays about $800 a month right now, and usually there's a small state supplement. So...something else is going on here. Yet it sounds like he's gotten a fair amount of assistance, so if it were a "mere" error, it would at least have been identified by now, and so mentioned in the article. Private persons can't garnish SSI, but the feds can and will, so I wonder if he is still paying restitution or has a tax lien or something.
Housing First is not a magic wand, but it could help stabilize a big chunk of the population. (Homelessness rates track housing costs rather than mental illness or substance abuse diagnoses.) That in itself would represent a massive improvement on the current situation. And every problem that makes people unwilling to accept the options offered by the system is exacerbated by being unhoused. Not everyone can be helped even with proper supportive services, but very few people can recover unhoused, and many people will get worse.
posted by praemunire at 8:11 AM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
Disability payments in the U.S. are quite low. This number does seem odd, however. He presumably never worked enough to qualify for SSDI, which is the program you pay into if you are working (above the table). The absolute bottom of the safety net, SSI, for people who are disabled without an adequate work history, pays about $800 a month right now, and usually there's a small state supplement. So...something else is going on here. Yet it sounds like he's gotten a fair amount of assistance, so if it were a "mere" error, it would at least have been identified by now, and so mentioned in the article. Private persons can't garnish SSI, but the feds can and will, so I wonder if he is still paying restitution or has a tax lien or something.
Housing First is not a magic wand, but it could help stabilize a big chunk of the population. (Homelessness rates track housing costs rather than mental illness or substance abuse diagnoses.) That in itself would represent a massive improvement on the current situation. And every problem that makes people unwilling to accept the options offered by the system is exacerbated by being unhoused. Not everyone can be helped even with proper supportive services, but very few people can recover unhoused, and many people will get worse.
posted by praemunire at 8:11 AM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
naive question: can the total current population of homeless be reasonably divided into two broad groups - those who are without housing for mainly economic reasons (and who would be able to get "back on their feet" with the provision of basic housing and economic support), and those whose mental health problems require more intervention and treatment, and when necessary, institutionalisation?
Regarding homelessness as just one big issue seems hopeless.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:52 AM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Regarding homelessness as just one big issue seems hopeless.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:52 AM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm still hoping we could dispose of the notion that fixing homelessness is easy, as well meaning people seem to insist in every thread about homelessness.
Nobody is doing that here.
posted by klanawa at 9:05 AM on August 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Nobody is doing that here.
posted by klanawa at 9:05 AM on August 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Regarding homelessness as just one big issue seems hopeless.
Your comment kind of reminded me in a very oblique way of no perfect tomato sauce and sensory choice clustering.
When homelessness is presented to lay people, there seem to be two opposite approaches -- either presenting individual stories and emphasizing that all the factors are different between individuals or presenting homelessness as a single issue that just needs more houses/money. The first seems hopeless, because how can you build a national or state or even municipal strategy around solving everyone individual's personal demons? But just presenting it as a single problem with a single solution is lacking in nuance and isn't going to result in good outcomes for a lot of individuals.
I imagine/hope that this is mostly a failure in journalism, and that people who actually work directly on services to or advocacy for the homeless actually do know what the clusters of causes are and are working from playbooks that are broader than one person at a time and narrower than 'this one weird trick will solve homelessness for everyone'.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:51 AM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
Your comment kind of reminded me in a very oblique way of no perfect tomato sauce and sensory choice clustering.
When homelessness is presented to lay people, there seem to be two opposite approaches -- either presenting individual stories and emphasizing that all the factors are different between individuals or presenting homelessness as a single issue that just needs more houses/money. The first seems hopeless, because how can you build a national or state or even municipal strategy around solving everyone individual's personal demons? But just presenting it as a single problem with a single solution is lacking in nuance and isn't going to result in good outcomes for a lot of individuals.
I imagine/hope that this is mostly a failure in journalism, and that people who actually work directly on services to or advocacy for the homeless actually do know what the clusters of causes are and are working from playbooks that are broader than one person at a time and narrower than 'this one weird trick will solve homelessness for everyone'.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:51 AM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
In the end, though, there is not a solution that does not require housing the person, in a sustainable (thus safe, hygienic, and healthy) long-term arrangement. You can run all the other programs you like; if there is not decent housing available, you are only applying band-aids.
posted by praemunire at 10:54 AM on August 30, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 10:54 AM on August 30, 2022 [8 favorites]
naive question: can the total current population of homeless be reasonably divided into two broad groups - those who are without housing for mainly economic reasons (and who would be able to get "back on their feet" with the provision of basic housing and economic support), and those whose mental health problems require more intervention and treatment, and when necessary, institutionalisation?
Not really; there's much too much overlap. Studies have shown that not sleeping can cause hallucinations and delusions, for example, so the correlation between symptoms of mental illness and lack of housing aren't always causal in only one direction. Same with drug use; I've talked to folks who started using substances when they lost their housing, because, for example, meth is useful in keeping you awake and alert enough not to be attacked or stolen from.
There's also a long history of deciding that "institutionalization" is a solution when really it's just sticking the problem where the general public can't see it at the expense of people's humanity or instead of actually fixing broken systems, so there's that.
posted by lapis at 11:40 AM on August 30, 2022 [11 favorites]
Not really; there's much too much overlap. Studies have shown that not sleeping can cause hallucinations and delusions, for example, so the correlation between symptoms of mental illness and lack of housing aren't always causal in only one direction. Same with drug use; I've talked to folks who started using substances when they lost their housing, because, for example, meth is useful in keeping you awake and alert enough not to be attacked or stolen from.
There's also a long history of deciding that "institutionalization" is a solution when really it's just sticking the problem where the general public can't see it at the expense of people's humanity or instead of actually fixing broken systems, so there's that.
posted by lapis at 11:40 AM on August 30, 2022 [11 favorites]
Hmmm. So it's hopeless. :(
posted by Artful Codger at 12:09 PM on August 30, 2022
posted by Artful Codger at 12:09 PM on August 30, 2022
It's not hopeless. There is an abundance of hope. What it will take is a generational change in how our society functions, and the forces pushing back are just as powerful as the forces pushing back against meaningful responses to climate change. Where I am, in Seattle and Portland, mainstream society cannot even accept shanty towns or encampments, the only thing that will make our local news station happy is complete invisibility.
posted by kittensofthenight at 12:30 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by kittensofthenight at 12:30 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yeah, not hopeless. It's just that the solutions need to not divide people into the deserving poor and the undeserving poor, basically, but realize it's a systemic issue that needs systemic solutions.
And I didn't mean to imply that there aren't differences in how much support/resources different people need. It's just that it's not two discrete levels of care. Individualized solutions are important.
posted by lapis at 12:41 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
And I didn't mean to imply that there aren't differences in how much support/resources different people need. It's just that it's not two discrete levels of care. Individualized solutions are important.
posted by lapis at 12:41 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
Where I am, in Seattle and Portland, mainstream society cannot even accept shanty towns or encampments, the only thing that will make our local news station happy is complete invisibility.
Yeah, this is what really gets me about the problem. I'm in LA, and when I've talked to people about the "homelessness crisis" and expressed my support for policies that prioritize Housing First, and my frustration at the rampant NIMBYism that prevents any meaningful push towards more affordable housing, I'm met with responses like "but would you want those people in your neighborhood?" And like, yes! Yes, I do want those people housed, in my neighborhood, because they are currently living in tents and makeshift shanties a few blocks away in my neighborhood. Actual housing is a step up. I don't want these people disappeared, for fuck's sake, I want them to receive the housing and support they need, and it's fine if that's in my neighborhood. Depressingly, a lot of people do seem to want the unhoused just plain disappeared.
It's a complex, systemic problem for sure, but society's impulse towards wanting to make the problem invisible rather than doing anything to solve it is a real big hurdle to clear.
posted by yasaman at 1:01 PM on August 30, 2022 [23 favorites]
Yeah, this is what really gets me about the problem. I'm in LA, and when I've talked to people about the "homelessness crisis" and expressed my support for policies that prioritize Housing First, and my frustration at the rampant NIMBYism that prevents any meaningful push towards more affordable housing, I'm met with responses like "but would you want those people in your neighborhood?" And like, yes! Yes, I do want those people housed, in my neighborhood, because they are currently living in tents and makeshift shanties a few blocks away in my neighborhood. Actual housing is a step up. I don't want these people disappeared, for fuck's sake, I want them to receive the housing and support they need, and it's fine if that's in my neighborhood. Depressingly, a lot of people do seem to want the unhoused just plain disappeared.
It's a complex, systemic problem for sure, but society's impulse towards wanting to make the problem invisible rather than doing anything to solve it is a real big hurdle to clear.
posted by yasaman at 1:01 PM on August 30, 2022 [23 favorites]
There are two meanings for the word 'institutionalized'.
The first is getting put, often against one's will, into a full time care institution. The old 'men in white coats with a butterfly net are here to take you away to a nice padded room, where a nurse will give you pills'.
The other is usually used for ex-cons, released prisoners, who have been in a full time care institution for so long that they have a great deal of difficulty functioning on their own - either just initially or permanently. It's been so long since they've made their own decisions about what to do and when...
I'm reminded of that movie scene where a 1983 Soviet citizen defects to the USA, then is sent to the supermarket with a list. "No, where is line to buy coffee?" 'Aisle 2. But there's no line.'
A lot of the ex-homeless are going to have similar, even when opposite, problems. Reverse-institutionaliation.
Nighttime's not for resting; nighttime's a state of hyper-vigiliance. In broad daylight on a public sidewalk is the only place you feel safe enough to get a good four hour's sleep. Do that for a couple years and you're going to have some trouble getting back into the world.
posted by bartleby at 2:04 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
The first is getting put, often against one's will, into a full time care institution. The old 'men in white coats with a butterfly net are here to take you away to a nice padded room, where a nurse will give you pills'.
The other is usually used for ex-cons, released prisoners, who have been in a full time care institution for so long that they have a great deal of difficulty functioning on their own - either just initially or permanently. It's been so long since they've made their own decisions about what to do and when...
I'm reminded of that movie scene where a 1983 Soviet citizen defects to the USA, then is sent to the supermarket with a list. "No, where is line to buy coffee?" 'Aisle 2. But there's no line.'
A lot of the ex-homeless are going to have similar, even when opposite, problems. Reverse-institutionaliation.
Nighttime's not for resting; nighttime's a state of hyper-vigiliance. In broad daylight on a public sidewalk is the only place you feel safe enough to get a good four hour's sleep. Do that for a couple years and you're going to have some trouble getting back into the world.
posted by bartleby at 2:04 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
This article from the NY Times refutes that - it says 18% moved from somewhere else, and 60+% in LA and SF had lived in LA or SF specifically respectively for more than 10 years.
It doesn't refute it though, not to mention it's years old, from pre-Covid, so it wouldn't be relevant anymore regardless.
Definitely not trying to be fighty but wanted to push back against anything that suggested this is a specifically California issue, as well as that money wouldn't solve the situation. Money *just* for houses would be an abject failure, but money also pays for mental health and medical workers.
Source: Me, working in public health serving unhoused patients in California.
posted by Jarcat at 8:10 PM on August 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
It doesn't refute it though, not to mention it's years old, from pre-Covid, so it wouldn't be relevant anymore regardless.
Definitely not trying to be fighty but wanted to push back against anything that suggested this is a specifically California issue, as well as that money wouldn't solve the situation. Money *just* for houses would be an abject failure, but money also pays for mental health and medical workers.
Source: Me, working in public health serving unhoused patients in California.
posted by Jarcat at 8:10 PM on August 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
Sounds like California should make it easier to build housing and give "locals" (are unhoused people not also locals?) fewer veto points during the process.
There have been efforts at the state level to more or less do this by reducing local governments' authority over zoning decisions and shifting some of that responsibility to the state (to predictable outcry). Unfortunately, even where locals don't strictly speaking have a 'veto point' in the sense of having the right to vote on a development, NIMBYs will often attempt to pressure elected officials who represent areas in which homeless housing projects have been proposed. Those efforts are successful less often than you might think or fear but more often than probably anybody here would like them to be.
posted by CactusJack at 8:10 PM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
There have been efforts at the state level to more or less do this by reducing local governments' authority over zoning decisions and shifting some of that responsibility to the state (to predictable outcry). Unfortunately, even where locals don't strictly speaking have a 'veto point' in the sense of having the right to vote on a development, NIMBYs will often attempt to pressure elected officials who represent areas in which homeless housing projects have been proposed. Those efforts are successful less often than you might think or fear but more often than probably anybody here would like them to be.
posted by CactusJack at 8:10 PM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also, insecure housing is literally a medical diagnosis, it has a huge impact on health when you aren't sure when/if you can sleep.
posted by Jarcat at 8:13 PM on August 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Jarcat at 8:13 PM on August 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Sounds like California should make it easier to build housing and give "locals" (are unhoused people not also locals?) fewer veto points during the process.
A billion dollars can be used to pay for many supportive people.
yes, zoning laws and land use laws should be changed. but california, and LA county specifically, have been throwing billions and billions of dollars at this problem for many years. and i can hardly imagine a more politically safe place to do it. and yet.
sure, if we combined housing first with top notch free healthcare, mental health, addiction, jobs, and social and family services for our 50,000 or so homeless population, that would probably solve it. it would also be more than we provide for the rest of the population of millions who are in need put together. it would also cost hundreds of billions of dollars.
so the conversation ends now where it always does. someone on here, who probably has never even seen an encampment, says "everyone deserves everything! so what if it costs a trillion dollars? society needs to change entirely!"
and then i go back to dtla.
posted by wibari at 8:50 PM on August 30, 2022
A billion dollars can be used to pay for many supportive people.
yes, zoning laws and land use laws should be changed. but california, and LA county specifically, have been throwing billions and billions of dollars at this problem for many years. and i can hardly imagine a more politically safe place to do it. and yet.
sure, if we combined housing first with top notch free healthcare, mental health, addiction, jobs, and social and family services for our 50,000 or so homeless population, that would probably solve it. it would also be more than we provide for the rest of the population of millions who are in need put together. it would also cost hundreds of billions of dollars.
so the conversation ends now where it always does. someone on here, who probably has never even seen an encampment, says "everyone deserves everything! so what if it costs a trillion dollars? society needs to change entirely!"
and then i go back to dtla.
posted by wibari at 8:50 PM on August 30, 2022
california, and LA county specifically, have been throwing billions and billions of dollars at this problem for many years.
LA County has been spending billions and billions of dollars on supportive housing for many years? This is news to me.
so the conversation ends now where it always does. someone on here, who probably has never even seen an encampment, says "everyone deserves everything! so what if it costs a trillion dollars? society needs to change entirely!" and then i go back to dtla.
I don't have to go visit anywhere to see encampments.
In the end I'm not sure what your point is here. Fuck 'em all? Have "a few supportive people" hold hands and sing kumbaya, as definitely preferable to paying for roofs over people's heads?
posted by praemunire at 10:03 PM on August 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
LA County has been spending billions and billions of dollars on supportive housing for many years? This is news to me.
so the conversation ends now where it always does. someone on here, who probably has never even seen an encampment, says "everyone deserves everything! so what if it costs a trillion dollars? society needs to change entirely!" and then i go back to dtla.
I don't have to go visit anywhere to see encampments.
In the end I'm not sure what your point is here. Fuck 'em all? Have "a few supportive people" hold hands and sing kumbaya, as definitely preferable to paying for roofs over people's heads?
posted by praemunire at 10:03 PM on August 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
So, about 350 million a year for ten years? I wouldn’t naturally describe that as billions and billions.
posted by LizardBreath at 5:25 AM on August 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by LizardBreath at 5:25 AM on August 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
It is also perhaps a bit presumptuous to declare a 10-year program that is only halfway through, with at least half of that time having been during the pandemic, as already necessarily a failure.
(The success criterion of solving all homelessness once and for all is also … a strong choice.)
posted by eviemath at 5:40 AM on August 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
(The success criterion of solving all homelessness once and for all is also … a strong choice.)
posted by eviemath at 5:40 AM on August 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
I also wouldn't describe any five years as "many years".
But on the broader issue, although some cities are harder hit, this is a national problem, and it deserves national attention and solutions.
posted by NotLost at 6:32 AM on August 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
But on the broader issue, although some cities are harder hit, this is a national problem, and it deserves national attention and solutions.
posted by NotLost at 6:32 AM on August 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
In the end I'm not sure what your point is here. Fuck 'em all? Have "a few supportive people" hold hands and sing kumbaya, as definitely preferable to paying for roofs over people's heads?
I think the person you’re replying to must consider metafilter their back yard, and they don’t even want a discussion about unhoused people occuring there.
posted by Jarcat at 7:44 AM on August 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think the person you’re replying to must consider metafilter their back yard, and they don’t even want a discussion about unhoused people occuring there.
posted by Jarcat at 7:44 AM on August 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
so the conversation ends now where it always does. someone on here, who probably has never even seen an encampment, says "everyone deserves everything! so what if it costs a trillion dollars? society needs to change entirely!"
I've worked on housing and homelessness policy in one of the largest cities in California and I've seen more encampments, heard more heartbreaking stories directly from the people living in them, than I would like.
Nobody is arguing that we should just blindly throw money at the problem (or 'entirely change society'). I don't know why you're acting like that's the case. This is obviously going to take more than money. It's going to take a spectrum of policy solutions addressing every segment of homelessness-- policies to produce more affordable housing, to preserve existing affordable housing, to protect tenants from displacement, to provide rapid rehousing for folks who are evicted with nowhere to go, to create shelters and interim housing, to create a pipeline from those temporary accommodations to more permanent housing. It's also going to take local governments that are more willing to engage with the state rather than approaching the relationship with an adversarial mindset. But yeah, fundamentally, it's going to take a lot of money.
And frankly, that's fine. The thing people who balk at the potential financial cost of creating lasting solutions to homelessness seem to assume is that we're starting at zero cost and every solution put forward is adding dollars to the cost. Homelessness is already costing us-- local governments, states, and residents alike-- massive amounts of money. Clearing out an encampment-- which in many local jurisdictions is simply the default response-- is extremely expensive. So if we're already spending a ton of money on the problem, why not spend it on sustainable solutions that have a track record of actually helping homeless people get back on their feet, or preventing people from becoming homeless in the first place-- and which will, if you're that concerned about money, actually end up saving money in the long-term?
posted by CactusJack at 8:15 AM on August 31, 2022 [13 favorites]
I've worked on housing and homelessness policy in one of the largest cities in California and I've seen more encampments, heard more heartbreaking stories directly from the people living in them, than I would like.
Nobody is arguing that we should just blindly throw money at the problem (or 'entirely change society'). I don't know why you're acting like that's the case. This is obviously going to take more than money. It's going to take a spectrum of policy solutions addressing every segment of homelessness-- policies to produce more affordable housing, to preserve existing affordable housing, to protect tenants from displacement, to provide rapid rehousing for folks who are evicted with nowhere to go, to create shelters and interim housing, to create a pipeline from those temporary accommodations to more permanent housing. It's also going to take local governments that are more willing to engage with the state rather than approaching the relationship with an adversarial mindset. But yeah, fundamentally, it's going to take a lot of money.
And frankly, that's fine. The thing people who balk at the potential financial cost of creating lasting solutions to homelessness seem to assume is that we're starting at zero cost and every solution put forward is adding dollars to the cost. Homelessness is already costing us-- local governments, states, and residents alike-- massive amounts of money. Clearing out an encampment-- which in many local jurisdictions is simply the default response-- is extremely expensive. So if we're already spending a ton of money on the problem, why not spend it on sustainable solutions that have a track record of actually helping homeless people get back on their feet, or preventing people from becoming homeless in the first place-- and which will, if you're that concerned about money, actually end up saving money in the long-term?
posted by CactusJack at 8:15 AM on August 31, 2022 [13 favorites]
Nobody is arguing that we should just blindly throw money at the problem
no, but plenty of people will argue that we should just throw money at the people (directly, not filtered through a professional class of intermediaries who will give them a fraction of it and tell them how they are permitted to spend it, after taking their own salary-sized cut.) and they are correct to argue that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:14 AM on September 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
no, but plenty of people will argue that we should just throw money at the people (directly, not filtered through a professional class of intermediaries who will give them a fraction of it and tell them how they are permitted to spend it, after taking their own salary-sized cut.) and they are correct to argue that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:14 AM on September 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted. Please try to say what you'd like to say without insulting other members. (Guidelines; FAQ)
posted by taz (staff) at 11:14 PM on September 9, 2022
posted by taz (staff) at 11:14 PM on September 9, 2022
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