"I don’t have $1 billion in the bank. I don’t drive Lexuses.”
September 14, 2022 1:47 PM Subscribe
Billionaire No More: Patagonia Founder Gives Away the Company The founder of Patagonia, Inc., has given every share of the company to a trust & non-profit, which will use the clothing company's profits to protect the Earth.
FTFA:
FTFA:
A half century after founding the outdoor apparel maker Patagonia, Yvon Chouinard, the eccentric rock climber who became a reluctant billionaire with his unconventional spin on capitalism, has given the company away.
Rather than selling the company or taking it public, Mr. Chouinard, his wife and two adult children have transferred their ownership of Patagonia, valued at about $3 billion, to a specially designed set of trusts and nonprofit organizations. They were created to preserve the company’s independence and ensure that all of its profits — some $100 million a year — are used to combat climate change and protect undeveloped land around the globe.
The unusual move comes at a moment of growing scrutiny for billionaires and corporations, whose rhetoric about making the world a better place is often overshadowed by their contributions to the very problems they claim to want to solve.
At the same time, Mr. Chouinard’s relinquishment of the family fortune is in keeping with his longstanding disregard for business norms, and his lifelong love for the environment.
Wow. I always remark when Billionaires come up about how easy it would be to stop being one at any time if you decided to be good instead. Happy to see someone do it and in a way to hopefully ensure the money gets used for beneficial causes.
posted by GoblinHoney at 1:54 PM on September 14, 2022 [38 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 1:54 PM on September 14, 2022 [38 favorites]
I posted something similar on Twitter just now but... this guy has always been a mensch. He helped invent big wall climbing in Yosemite. When he didn't have the right gear for climbing he bought some second hand blacksmith equipment and began selling steel pitons to fellow climbers. Then, when he found out these pitons were causing damage to the rock, he stopped selling them (which was his main source of income at the time) and invented aluminum wedges and other gear for "clean climbing." Modern ice climbing probably wouldn't exist (or wouldn't have existed as soon as it did) were it not for advances he made in crampons and ice axes.
Climbing has evolved a lot since then, but I've always admired his vision of pure, clean climbing.
Go watch Valley Uprising on Amazon if you're into that sort of thing.
He's just always seemed like a good dude. This further confirms it.
posted by bondcliff at 1:55 PM on September 14, 2022 [55 favorites]
Climbing has evolved a lot since then, but I've always admired his vision of pure, clean climbing.
Go watch Valley Uprising on Amazon if you're into that sort of thing.
He's just always seemed like a good dude. This further confirms it.
posted by bondcliff at 1:55 PM on September 14, 2022 [55 favorites]
“I don’t respect the stock market at all,” he said. “Once you’re public, you’ve lost control over the company, and you have to maximize profits for the shareholder, and then you become one of these irresponsible companies.”Good on the kids there, as well. I'm glad that notion's building traction in a place that it matters.
They also considered simply leaving the company to Fletcher and Claire. But even that option didn’t work, because the children didn’t want the company.
“It was important to them that they were not seen as the financial beneficiaries,” Mr. Gellert said. “They felt very strongly about it. I know it can sound flippant, but they really embody this notion that every billionaire is a policy failure.”
posted by CrystalDave at 1:56 PM on September 14, 2022 [74 favorites]
The internet has made me cynical enough that I came in looking for the catch to this seeming good news, and was very much relieved to see all the positive comments in this thread!
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:15 PM on September 14, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:15 PM on September 14, 2022 [16 favorites]
I have some Chouinard carabiners in the garage somewhere. I've always admired this dude. I've also mailed back a bunch of Patagonia and Black Diamond (the climbing company that developed out of Chouinard) gear and it's been repaired and returned. Legend.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 2:24 PM on September 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 2:24 PM on September 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Very refreshing and makes me feel better about my Patagonia purchases. Don't forget their extremely robust in-house used selection! I love this thing.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 2:25 PM on September 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 2:25 PM on September 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
I hear ya, definitely on edge waiting for another shoe to drop, but seems like a genuinely good move. I’ve never actually bought any Patagonia, but I should take a closer look (for when I actually NEED some new clothing, which is not now).
posted by obfuscation at 2:27 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by obfuscation at 2:27 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Patagonia makes a good product, but I've rarely felt comfortable buying it unless it was out-of-season or remaindered. But I have a bunch of 20 year old things from them that I will be wearing this winter.
Can you get to $3 billion without comprise? There is more to this story, surly.
posted by Bee'sWing at 2:36 PM on September 14, 2022
Can you get to $3 billion without comprise? There is more to this story, surly.
posted by Bee'sWing at 2:36 PM on September 14, 2022
Can you get to $3 billion without compromise?
Mmm, maybe--Yvon Chouinard is probably as close to doing it as anyone I can think of.
They did sell a jacket to Ted Cruz, though.
posted by box at 2:39 PM on September 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
Mmm, maybe--Yvon Chouinard is probably as close to doing it as anyone I can think of.
They did sell a jacket to Ted Cruz, though.
posted by box at 2:39 PM on September 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
They also considered simply leaving the company to Fletcher and Claire. But even that option didn’t work, because the children didn’t want the company.
Wild. The fact that a billionaire raised children who actively rejected his wealth is pretty good evidence that Chouinard is the real deal.
posted by ZaphodB at 2:46 PM on September 14, 2022 [47 favorites]
Wild. The fact that a billionaire raised children who actively rejected his wealth is pretty good evidence that Chouinard is the real deal.
posted by ZaphodB at 2:46 PM on September 14, 2022 [47 favorites]
They did sell a jacket to Ted Cruz, though.
Well, he bought it. Hard to stop that from happening.
posted by chavenet at 2:49 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Well, he bought it. Hard to stop that from happening.
posted by chavenet at 2:49 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Can you get to $3 billion without comprise?
I think you definitely can in the outdoor space as long as you don't become too focused on "growth". It isn't that your core customers aren't price sensitive but enough of them will continue to buy your goods in the face of cheaper competition as long as the quality is there, and in fact they're probably just as likely to move to more expensive, higher quality producers, as they are to compromise on quality in order to save money. Of course once a business goes public then growth becomes a requirement in order to maximize shareholder value.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:54 PM on September 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think you definitely can in the outdoor space as long as you don't become too focused on "growth". It isn't that your core customers aren't price sensitive but enough of them will continue to buy your goods in the face of cheaper competition as long as the quality is there, and in fact they're probably just as likely to move to more expensive, higher quality producers, as they are to compromise on quality in order to save money. Of course once a business goes public then growth becomes a requirement in order to maximize shareholder value.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:54 PM on September 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
every billionaire is a policy failure
This is a pretty brilliant slogan. Where did it come from? Ahh. Makes sense.
posted by gwint at 2:55 PM on September 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is a pretty brilliant slogan. Where did it come from? Ahh. Makes sense.
posted by gwint at 2:55 PM on September 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
I didn't know that Black Diamond was the same source. TIL -- and I will shop accordingly!
posted by wenestvedt at 3:09 PM on September 14, 2022
posted by wenestvedt at 3:09 PM on September 14, 2022
Black Diamond has its origins in the bankruptcy of Chouinard Equipment, but it's now a completely separate company, owned by someone else. Not saying there's anything particularly wrong with Black Diamond, though its owners are not great, but it definitely doesn't have the same environmental or social commitments that Patagonia does.
posted by ssg at 3:18 PM on September 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by ssg at 3:18 PM on September 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
This is awesome, and I'm not even gonna be mad if everyone in the family cashed out $100m before doing it for rest of their life expenses, because it's still a huge net good.
Not that I can afford much Patagucci, but still!
posted by jellywerker at 3:36 PM on September 14, 2022
Not that I can afford much Patagucci, but still!
posted by jellywerker at 3:36 PM on September 14, 2022
There's an interesting choice they made
posted by Nelson at 4:03 PM on September 14, 2022 [49 favorites]
As a 501(c)(4) not-for-profit organization, the Collective can advocate for causes and political candidates in addition to making grants and investments in our planet.Unlike a 501c3, a 501c4 doesn't give donors a tax deduction. So Chouinard traded off a giant tax break in exchange for the ability of his new organization to do explicitly political work.
posted by Nelson at 4:03 PM on September 14, 2022 [49 favorites]
What's with this guy? Is he too afraid to build a rocket and fly into space like a regular billionaire?
posted by chrchr at 4:06 PM on September 14, 2022 [41 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 4:06 PM on September 14, 2022 [41 favorites]
Is he too afraid to build a rocket and fly into space like a regular billionaire?
He just chose the "possibly on the top of a very tall mountain" option.
posted by pwnguin at 4:11 PM on September 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
He just chose the "possibly on the top of a very tall mountain" option.
posted by pwnguin at 4:11 PM on September 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
> They did sell a jacket to Ted Cruz, though.
Well, he bought it. Hard to stop that from happening.
Is it too much to ask for Cruz control?
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:24 PM on September 14, 2022 [17 favorites]
Well, he bought it. Hard to stop that from happening.
Is it too much to ask for Cruz control?
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:24 PM on September 14, 2022 [17 favorites]
TMI...
...but I have Patagonia underwear that I bought literally 20 years ago in preparation for an eleven month expedition, and which I still use daily (bought fourteen identical pairs at the time). I have not purchased underwear in twenty years, because these are in almost perfect condition. No holes. No thinning. Each pair worn once in a two-week cycle for twenty years. It's mind-bending.
The elastic is starting to blow out, but that'll be an easy repair since the elastic strip is entirely separate from the main fabric and is just sewed on so I can remove and replace it. Granted, they cost $36/pair, but for $504 I set myself up for the rest of my life. I genuinely cannot believe how well-made these dang things are.
posted by aramaic at 5:34 PM on September 14, 2022 [25 favorites]
...but I have Patagonia underwear that I bought literally 20 years ago in preparation for an eleven month expedition, and which I still use daily (bought fourteen identical pairs at the time). I have not purchased underwear in twenty years, because these are in almost perfect condition. No holes. No thinning. Each pair worn once in a two-week cycle for twenty years. It's mind-bending.
The elastic is starting to blow out, but that'll be an easy repair since the elastic strip is entirely separate from the main fabric and is just sewed on so I can remove and replace it. Granted, they cost $36/pair, but for $504 I set myself up for the rest of my life. I genuinely cannot believe how well-made these dang things are.
posted by aramaic at 5:34 PM on September 14, 2022 [25 favorites]
I also have ancient Patagonia unmentionables, although not as old as yours. I no longer want to wear that cut but they just won't die. I'm going to end up joy sparking them.
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:39 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:39 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I can’t even remember exactly when I bought my set of Patagonia long underwear, but it was 25–30 years ago and I still use them when visiting cold climates in winter. (The waistband elastic is shot, though.)
posted by mubba at 5:48 PM on September 14, 2022
posted by mubba at 5:48 PM on September 14, 2022
My main experience with Patagonia gear has been all second hand but very good.
And, well, one experience in particular that was maybe a little scammy and scummy on my part that I am not proud of at all and hesitant to admit here because "We Have Cameras" to reference an old MeFi event - but in my defense I was very poor and I really needed a new pair of shoes because the one pair of shoes I had were so worn out they soaked up water through the soles.
So, I had found a pair of Patagonia trail shoes left out on a curb that were rather worn out and had some uncomfortable defects in the heel cup, but they were my size. I wore them for a while but the heel cup issue with bits of plastic sticking out was hurting my feet, and whomever previously owned them had some kind of gait or walking issue that caused the soles and foam mid-soles to be worn down at an awkward camber or angle that was messing me up.
So, like a total broke-ass dirtbag I took them to the store.
And I have to say that to the credit of the store and staff they didn't even blink and treated me very well like any given customer even though they absolutely, positively must have known what was going on because they probably saw this kind of recycling scam all the time and I obviously didn't have any money and I was practically homeless and flat broke. They even let me bring my dripping wet bike inside out of the rain.
Turns out the shoes were so old they didn't even exist in their ten year old stock of catalogs they keep on hand for lifetime warranty references just for this sort of thing, but they found something similar, assigned a value to it and gave me store credit for them, which was, to me at that point in time, an eye-watering windfall of something like 220 dollars.
I ended up with a brand new pair of shoes that lasted me several years of hard wear in Seattle's rough, wet and dirty streets.
I will never, ever forget how well the staff treated me during that exchange and how firmly their company culture stood behind their "Lifetime repair or replacement warranty, no questions asked" policy of the time. (I think they've changed this policy a lot since then for obvious reasons, much as REI has had to change their policies.)
That is some serious and rare commitment to a culture of sustainability and trust, and having known a lot of dirtbag climbers and mountaineers it's amazing to me that that commitment to doing things right and being kind and frugal for the sake of adventures and living life translated all the way from the top to the bottom as an indelible ethos.
I would very much like to meet Yvon Chouinard and confess my dirtbag sins - which I gather he would be amused and charmed by it, rather than annoyed by it because that's how dirtbag climbers just tend to be - but I would also like to express my deep appreciation for this company culture and how my random curb-side trash find translated into a direly needed new pair of shoes that could stand up to the hardships of my life.
The moral to this story is that I walked into that store with non-figurative trash and they treated me like a human being. Instead of judging me and kicking my broke ass out of the store, they treated me like any other customer and somehow recognized I could probably really use a new pair of shoes and they resolutely stood behind their lifetime unlimited warranty in a way that was so rock solid and so non-judgemental that it's profoundly poetic and absolutely rare in this fucked up world where it relates to commerce.
In the slim chance he reads this? Yvon Chouinard? You're a total mensch. You've done real good.
posted by loquacious at 6:11 PM on September 14, 2022 [108 favorites]
And, well, one experience in particular that was maybe a little scammy and scummy on my part that I am not proud of at all and hesitant to admit here because "We Have Cameras" to reference an old MeFi event - but in my defense I was very poor and I really needed a new pair of shoes because the one pair of shoes I had were so worn out they soaked up water through the soles.
So, I had found a pair of Patagonia trail shoes left out on a curb that were rather worn out and had some uncomfortable defects in the heel cup, but they were my size. I wore them for a while but the heel cup issue with bits of plastic sticking out was hurting my feet, and whomever previously owned them had some kind of gait or walking issue that caused the soles and foam mid-soles to be worn down at an awkward camber or angle that was messing me up.
So, like a total broke-ass dirtbag I took them to the store.
And I have to say that to the credit of the store and staff they didn't even blink and treated me very well like any given customer even though they absolutely, positively must have known what was going on because they probably saw this kind of recycling scam all the time and I obviously didn't have any money and I was practically homeless and flat broke. They even let me bring my dripping wet bike inside out of the rain.
Turns out the shoes were so old they didn't even exist in their ten year old stock of catalogs they keep on hand for lifetime warranty references just for this sort of thing, but they found something similar, assigned a value to it and gave me store credit for them, which was, to me at that point in time, an eye-watering windfall of something like 220 dollars.
I ended up with a brand new pair of shoes that lasted me several years of hard wear in Seattle's rough, wet and dirty streets.
I will never, ever forget how well the staff treated me during that exchange and how firmly their company culture stood behind their "Lifetime repair or replacement warranty, no questions asked" policy of the time. (I think they've changed this policy a lot since then for obvious reasons, much as REI has had to change their policies.)
That is some serious and rare commitment to a culture of sustainability and trust, and having known a lot of dirtbag climbers and mountaineers it's amazing to me that that commitment to doing things right and being kind and frugal for the sake of adventures and living life translated all the way from the top to the bottom as an indelible ethos.
I would very much like to meet Yvon Chouinard and confess my dirtbag sins - which I gather he would be amused and charmed by it, rather than annoyed by it because that's how dirtbag climbers just tend to be - but I would also like to express my deep appreciation for this company culture and how my random curb-side trash find translated into a direly needed new pair of shoes that could stand up to the hardships of my life.
The moral to this story is that I walked into that store with non-figurative trash and they treated me like a human being. Instead of judging me and kicking my broke ass out of the store, they treated me like any other customer and somehow recognized I could probably really use a new pair of shoes and they resolutely stood behind their lifetime unlimited warranty in a way that was so rock solid and so non-judgemental that it's profoundly poetic and absolutely rare in this fucked up world where it relates to commerce.
In the slim chance he reads this? Yvon Chouinard? You're a total mensch. You've done real good.
posted by loquacious at 6:11 PM on September 14, 2022 [108 favorites]
Patagonia underwear that I bought literally 20 years ago
I also still have a pair or two of these kicking around!
posted by pullayup at 6:23 PM on September 14, 2022
I also still have a pair or two of these kicking around!
posted by pullayup at 6:23 PM on September 14, 2022
I'm reminded of the French aristocrats who joined the revolution.
posted by doctornemo at 6:28 PM on September 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 6:28 PM on September 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
More of this!
posted by aint broke at 6:33 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by aint broke at 6:33 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
So do his car doors now go like this, not like this?
posted by clawsoon at 6:46 PM on September 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 6:46 PM on September 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
I also have some 20 year old Patagonia thermals And this certainly make me more likely to buy more pieces especially since I am finally in a place in life where I can justify spending more for quality and environmental impact.
I also have a Patagonia vest with the logo of a non-profit campaign I worked on. I know they made the principled stance to no long sell to logowear vendors based on the vest being more likely to
I would also note that Doug Thompson( founder of north face) and second with Kris Tompkins (former Patagonia CEO) have donated a big chunk of their fortune to conservation in Patagonia( Chile/Argentina)
posted by CostcoCultist at 7:18 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I also have a Patagonia vest with the logo of a non-profit campaign I worked on. I know they made the principled stance to no long sell to logowear vendors based on the vest being more likely to
I would also note that Doug Thompson( founder of north face) and second with Kris Tompkins (former Patagonia CEO) have donated a big chunk of their fortune to conservation in Patagonia( Chile/Argentina)
posted by CostcoCultist at 7:18 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I’m reminded even more strongly of people like Andrew Carnegie who did this with their fortunes.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 7:40 PM on September 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 7:40 PM on September 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Fine, but taxing his class out of existence remains a better strategy.
I’m reminded even more strongly of people like Andrew Carnegie who did this with their fortunes.
Those fortunes were built on the backs of working people.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:49 PM on September 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
I’m reminded even more strongly of people like Andrew Carnegie who did this with their fortunes.
Those fortunes were built on the backs of working people.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:49 PM on September 14, 2022 [13 favorites]
Lexii?
posted by Dynex at 8:19 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Dynex at 8:19 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Tim Boyle, CEO of Columbia, should take some fucking notes.
posted by bendy at 8:55 PM on September 14, 2022
posted by bendy at 8:55 PM on September 14, 2022
the money of all billionaires are, by definition, wealth exploited from the labor of those employed by them. skim a large percentage of the revenue for shareholders and execs, pay the employees a minute percentage of the profit they produced, rinse and repeat
examples like this billionaire doing one good thing with that exploited money are so rare and hearken back to the philosophy that enables exploitation - noblesse oblige - the idea that singular individuals who end up at the head of a systemically exploitative system deserve to be there, are smarter, better working, clearer sighted than the narrow minded, mundane worker, and thus are given the mandate to direct society at large according to their will
that money, those billions, that's power - and its power in the hands of a small number of individuals, all obtained by exploitation
the celebration of a singularly good outcome of this horrible shit system is just sad - we deserve so much fucking better than just a few good apples
posted by paimapi at 12:02 AM on September 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
examples like this billionaire doing one good thing with that exploited money are so rare and hearken back to the philosophy that enables exploitation - noblesse oblige - the idea that singular individuals who end up at the head of a systemically exploitative system deserve to be there, are smarter, better working, clearer sighted than the narrow minded, mundane worker, and thus are given the mandate to direct society at large according to their will
that money, those billions, that's power - and its power in the hands of a small number of individuals, all obtained by exploitation
the celebration of a singularly good outcome of this horrible shit system is just sad - we deserve so much fucking better than just a few good apples
posted by paimapi at 12:02 AM on September 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
But as the saying goes, a be few good apples will, uh... goodify? the entire bunch?
posted by Dysk at 12:30 AM on September 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 12:30 AM on September 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Feh. If he was truly good, he would have put the billions to use establishing revolutionary cells to guillotine the other billionaires and bringing about Full Communism in our time.
Or was that building a godlike AI that will eternally torture simulations of everyone who didn't devote all their resources to building it? I can never remember...
posted by acb at 2:13 AM on September 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
Or was that building a godlike AI that will eternally torture simulations of everyone who didn't devote all their resources to building it? I can never remember...
posted by acb at 2:13 AM on September 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
Can you get to $3 billion without comprise?
What would it mean not to compromise here? I mean, there are companies making inroads with recycling and clean precursors, but at the end of the day nylon and friends are petro-derived where they aren't PFAs. However, as far as I can tell, most/many of the other compromises are avoidable for the average purchaser.
posted by rhizome at 2:29 AM on September 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
What would it mean not to compromise here? I mean, there are companies making inroads with recycling and clean precursors, but at the end of the day nylon and friends are petro-derived where they aren't PFAs. However, as far as I can tell, most/many of the other compromises are avoidable for the average purchaser.
posted by rhizome at 2:29 AM on September 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wish they would've gone into more details about why he rejected the option of a worker cooperative. As great as this is, there's still that whiff of "billionaire continues to control what gets done with their power by setting up a charitable trust."
posted by clawsoon at 5:32 AM on September 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:32 AM on September 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
My spouse has a Patagonia winter jacket that she bought when she was in middle school, and she still wears regularly. The jacket is 32 years old.
I bought my first Patagonia product this year. A pair of hemp work trousers. I love them.
posted by terrapin at 5:37 AM on September 15, 2022
I bought my first Patagonia product this year. A pair of hemp work trousers. I love them.
posted by terrapin at 5:37 AM on September 15, 2022
I've never bought anything from Patagonia, because their prices seem a bit out of my normal range. But I'm intrigued by the comments above from people who have bought items which are still holding up after 20 years. (I'm reminded of the Sam Vimes "Boots" theory of economic injustice.)
Do their shirts and jeans generally have that level of durability? It might be worth paying twice what I normally would for an item of clothing which lasts five times longer. Especially if it supports a company which is doing good work in the world.
posted by tdismukes at 5:40 AM on September 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Do their shirts and jeans generally have that level of durability? It might be worth paying twice what I normally would for an item of clothing which lasts five times longer. Especially if it supports a company which is doing good work in the world.
posted by tdismukes at 5:40 AM on September 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Can't speak to Patagonia specifically, but I'm wearing a pair of work trousers right now that I have regularly worn for the last twelve plus years. Just yesterday I snagged a belt loop on the tab of a door bolt receiver, and bent the metal plate quite badly. My belt loops are still fine.
I get so annoyed at other clothes just falling apart after a couple of years. Wish I could get similarity hard wearing clothes that aren't as covered in tool loops, kneepad pockets, etc. Is Patagonia an answer here?
posted by Dysk at 5:50 AM on September 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I get so annoyed at other clothes just falling apart after a couple of years. Wish I could get similarity hard wearing clothes that aren't as covered in tool loops, kneepad pockets, etc. Is Patagonia an answer here?
posted by Dysk at 5:50 AM on September 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
> Is Patagonia an answer here?
If you wear standard sizes, sure. Last time I looked they didn't have any Tall sizes for women. I don't wear Petite or Plus, so I don't know how they tend to do for those people, but if they're like every other outdoorsy company they're probably not great.
This isn't relevant to him giving the company away, which I think is dandy. And also a sign of failure, and why should private organizations be able to set policy, and now I'm thinking about Barre Seid, and argh. But still! It's good! I hope more bazillionaires do the same. But why do we have bazillionaires sjgdak;adsjlf
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:44 AM on September 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
If you wear standard sizes, sure. Last time I looked they didn't have any Tall sizes for women. I don't wear Petite or Plus, so I don't know how they tend to do for those people, but if they're like every other outdoorsy company they're probably not great.
This isn't relevant to him giving the company away, which I think is dandy. And also a sign of failure, and why should private organizations be able to set policy, and now I'm thinking about Barre Seid, and argh. But still! It's good! I hope more bazillionaires do the same. But why do we have bazillionaires sjgdak;adsjlf
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:44 AM on September 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
There's an interesting choice they made
As a 501(c)(4) not-for-profit organization, the Collective can advocate for causes and political candidates in addition to making grants and investments in our planet.
Unlike a 501c3, a 501c4 doesn't give donors a tax deduction. So Chouinard traded off a giant tax break in exchange for the ability of his new organization to do explicitly political work.
Yes, but there appears to be still a big tax advantage. Although they can't deduct their donation to reduce the other taxes they owe, they will not pay capital gains on the growth in the value of their company. Granted, they wouldn't have paid any capital gains if they never sold the company either.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:00 AM on September 15, 2022
As a 501(c)(4) not-for-profit organization, the Collective can advocate for causes and political candidates in addition to making grants and investments in our planet.
Unlike a 501c3, a 501c4 doesn't give donors a tax deduction. So Chouinard traded off a giant tax break in exchange for the ability of his new organization to do explicitly political work.
Yes, but there appears to be still a big tax advantage. Although they can't deduct their donation to reduce the other taxes they owe, they will not pay capital gains on the growth in the value of their company. Granted, they wouldn't have paid any capital gains if they never sold the company either.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:00 AM on September 15, 2022
Dysk, Patagonia sells a few styles of hemp work pants that do not have a ton of loops, and some styles don’t have double fronted knees; this might work for you? I’m able to get away with these at an office job.
I’m a huge convert to their workwear line. They're the only jeans or canvas pants I’ll buy at this point. They’re phenomenally durable, especially compared to other modern work pants that contain lycra (I’m looking at you Carhartt…). They also have superb work pants for wider hip shaped bodies under their women's line that are no less durable.
I picked up a pair upon the advice over on askme; they’re just super well made. Daily wear here.
posted by furnace.heart at 8:29 AM on September 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
I’m a huge convert to their workwear line. They're the only jeans or canvas pants I’ll buy at this point. They’re phenomenally durable, especially compared to other modern work pants that contain lycra (I’m looking at you Carhartt…). They also have superb work pants for wider hip shaped bodies under their women's line that are no less durable.
I picked up a pair upon the advice over on askme; they’re just super well made. Daily wear here.
posted by furnace.heart at 8:29 AM on September 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
They’re phenomenally durable, especially compared to other modern work pants that contain lycra (I’m looking at you Carhartt…)
This is why I switched to Patagonia. Every pair of Carhartt's I have owned wear out in a year or two.
posted by terrapin at 8:42 AM on September 15, 2022
This is why I switched to Patagonia. Every pair of Carhartt's I have owned wear out in a year or two.
posted by terrapin at 8:42 AM on September 15, 2022
Plastic clothes last a long time, but they're plastic. A lot of Patagonia's clothes have a significant synthetic component.
Shirts don't get a lot of wear in the first place. I've had cotton shirts from H&M, the very definition of fast cheap fashion, last over a decade. Mostly clothing gets tossed because of weight changes, or from fashion trends.
If you live in moderate climates, winter jackets probably last longer than you're willing to wear them. They're both thick and rarely worn. Maybe even less now due to climate change.
posted by meowzilla at 8:49 AM on September 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Shirts don't get a lot of wear in the first place. I've had cotton shirts from H&M, the very definition of fast cheap fashion, last over a decade. Mostly clothing gets tossed because of weight changes, or from fashion trends.
If you live in moderate climates, winter jackets probably last longer than you're willing to wear them. They're both thick and rarely worn. Maybe even less now due to climate change.
posted by meowzilla at 8:49 AM on September 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have always loved this brand, and now I love this ex-owner. Earth stewards are the best!
posted by Oyéah at 2:37 PM on September 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 2:37 PM on September 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
If you want a cloud for the silver lining, Patagonia Billionaire Who Gave Up Company Skirts $700 Million Tax Hit. The $700M is the avoidance of capital gains that Mr.Know-it-some mentions above. It could have been more though, the article reiterates what I said above, that by not using a 501c3 Chouinard gave up a potentially much larger tax deduction or charitable donation.
What's new here is the 501c4 structure lets Chouinard transfer control of the company to his family without going through probate, sales, or any other transfers that could trigger extra tax and legal complications. Basically his family gets to take over Patagonia without a formal transfer, any any future major transactions Patagonia itself makes will be tax free. However now the company is restricted to 501c4 activities. And this same gimmick can be used for any political purpose.
What's new here is the 501c4 structure lets Chouinard transfer control of the company to his family without going through probate, sales, or any other transfers that could trigger extra tax and legal complications. Basically his family gets to take over Patagonia without a formal transfer, any any future major transactions Patagonia itself makes will be tax free. However now the company is restricted to 501c4 activities. And this same gimmick can be used for any political purpose.
Electronics manufacturing mogul Barre Seid donated his company Tripp Lite to a 501(c)(4), Marble Freedom Trust, which then sold the business for $1.65 billion, sparing Seid from paying capital gains taxes on the transaction. The organization is led by a conservative activist whose activities helped cement the conservative dominance of the US Supreme Court and counter abortion rights, voting rules and climate policy. ...posted by Nelson at 3:51 PM on September 15, 2022 [9 favorites]
With a historically polarized government leading to repeated stalemates on legislation, it’s likely that more billionaires will see 501(c)(4)s as the most expedient way to ensure their policy aims and charitable intentions outlive them.
All that power is now going to tell you what to do and what your values should be... to save your soul... or the planet, I mean. NGOs are the new religion complete with life everlasting, expect an inquisition sooner or later.
posted by 517 at 8:11 PM on September 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by 517 at 8:11 PM on September 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
His book "Let My People Go Surfing" taught me and many others that you can be in business without being a dipshit. I'm glad he's still proving the point in a forceful and innovative way.
posted by alper at 10:35 AM on September 16, 2022
posted by alper at 10:35 AM on September 16, 2022
If you want a cloud for the silver lining, Patagonia Billionaire Who Gave Up Company Skirts $700 Million Tax Hit.
Quoting @DanRiffle on this issue:
posted by gwint at 1:21 PM on September 16, 2022 [7 favorites]
Quoting @DanRiffle on this issue:
Lol. He "avoided" the tax bill by giving away, rather than selling, a $3B company. As a result, he and his kids will not get $100M in profits every year. This is like saying someone dodged vehicle registration fees by giving away their car.I still agree with the "every billionaire is a policy failure" sentiment, but if they already have the billions, I'm happy with them giving it away to help save the planet.
posted by gwint at 1:21 PM on September 16, 2022 [7 favorites]
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posted by wenestvedt at 1:49 PM on September 14, 2022 [1 favorite]