California Poised to Overtake Germany as World’s No. 4 Economy
October 25, 2022 9:30 PM Subscribe
“the California dream is still alive and well,” the state’s 40th governor said in a Zoom interview a month before his probable reelection. The truth is that California outperforms the US and the rest of world across many industries. That’s especially relevant with renewable energy, the fastest-growing business in California and Germany. The market capitalization of California companies in this business increased 731% the past three years, or 1.74 times more than their German counterparts, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
Newsom did call California a nation state during the pandemic. Unleash the suede denim secret police!
posted by eagles123 at 9:53 PM on October 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by eagles123 at 9:53 PM on October 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
Regarding CPUC, have you tried to contact anyone at SJCE? Their NEM program is better than PG&E net metering (for me, anyway, it’s a lot better), so they might have opinions on the matter and thus relevant sources of info.
posted by aramaic at 10:06 PM on October 25, 2022
posted by aramaic at 10:06 PM on October 25, 2022
BLUE FUNDS RED
posted by adept256 at 11:04 PM on October 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 11:04 PM on October 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
The article notes very quickly and quietly that the German economy has been adversely affected by Russia's war on Ukraine, but I seemed to miss to what extent or how.
Then there is a Bloomberg infographic elsewhere that shows Germany trending nicely above California, both comfortably along the same general regression, until the recent time point that aligns with Russia initiating its war of aggression.
This would seem to undermine the point of this article a little, to me. Kind of like "winning" by a temporal technicality, as opposed to demonstrating evidence of some kind of a real global repositioning.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:27 PM on October 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
Then there is a Bloomberg infographic elsewhere that shows Germany trending nicely above California, both comfortably along the same general regression, until the recent time point that aligns with Russia initiating its war of aggression.
This would seem to undermine the point of this article a little, to me. Kind of like "winning" by a temporal technicality, as opposed to demonstrating evidence of some kind of a real global repositioning.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:27 PM on October 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
Then there is a Bloomberg infographic elsewhere that shows Germany trending nicely above California, both comfortably along the same general regression, until the recent time point that aligns with Russia initiating its war of aggression.
This would seem to undermine the point of this article a little, to me. Kind of like "winning" by a temporal technicality, as opposed to demonstrating evidence of some kind of a real global repositioning.
The balance will probably be redressed in a few years when President DeathSanta declares war on California.
posted by jamjam at 11:39 PM on October 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
This would seem to undermine the point of this article a little, to me. Kind of like "winning" by a temporal technicality, as opposed to demonstrating evidence of some kind of a real global repositioning.
The balance will probably be redressed in a few years when President DeathSanta declares war on California.
posted by jamjam at 11:39 PM on October 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
"New people could be seen, by people like my grandfather, as indifferent to everything that had made California work, but the ambiguity was this: new people were also who were making California rich."
-Joan Didion,
posted by clavdivs at 12:17 AM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
-Joan Didion,
posted by clavdivs at 12:17 AM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
California is the largest dairy producer in the US.
Is the largest agricultural producer in the US.
So, it isn't just techie stuff and media.
posted by pthomas745 at 4:16 AM on October 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
Is the largest agricultural producer in the US.
So, it isn't just techie stuff and media.
posted by pthomas745 at 4:16 AM on October 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
California, lol.... Los Angeles County, California, Population vs. State Populations.
Los Angeles County would rank eleventh in population among the 50 U.S. states, following only the states of California, Texas, Florida, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Georgia, North Carolina, and Michigan. Geographically, it is larger (land area: 4,058 square miles) than the states of Rhode Island (land area: 1,212 square miles; pop: 1.1 million) and Delaware (2,489 square miles; pop: 1 million). Economically, Los Angeles County has a larger economic Gross Domestic Product (GDP) than all but five U.S. states (California, Texas, New York, Florida, and Illinois).posted by zengargoyle at 5:18 AM on October 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
get that lithium and keep those aquifiers running guys!
posted by AlbertCalavicci at 5:33 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by AlbertCalavicci at 5:33 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
This would seem to undermine the point of this article a little, to me. Kind of like "winning" by a temporal technicality, as opposed to demonstrating evidence of some kind of a real global repositioning.
I do see the point, but it was this kind of advantage that the US had after two world wars in Europe that catapulted the US to the top as well.
posted by LizBoBiz at 5:49 AM on October 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
I do see the point, but it was this kind of advantage that the US had after two world wars in Europe that catapulted the US to the top as well.
posted by LizBoBiz at 5:49 AM on October 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
BLUE FUNDS RED
It's always entertaining when the right talks about the red states seceding. In fact if I didn't know that virtually every state is actually purple I would be 100% behind unloading them.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:22 AM on October 26, 2022 [10 favorites]
It's always entertaining when the right talks about the red states seceding. In fact if I didn't know that virtually every state is actually purple I would be 100% behind unloading them.
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posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:22 AM on October 26, 2022 [10 favorites]
LA county is big, yes. And..so is Orange County, which is just next door.
"As of the 2020 census, the population was 3,186,989,[4] making it the third-most populous county in California, the sixth most populous in the U.S., and more populous than 27 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.[6]
A hundred billion dollar GDP here, a few more there, and pretty soon it adds up.
https://www.ocregister.com/2021/12/28/california-has-11-economies-bigger-than-new-hampshire-luxembourg-or-pepsico/
posted by pthomas745 at 8:13 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
"As of the 2020 census, the population was 3,186,989,[4] making it the third-most populous county in California, the sixth most populous in the U.S., and more populous than 27 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.[6]
A hundred billion dollar GDP here, a few more there, and pretty soon it adds up.
https://www.ocregister.com/2021/12/28/california-has-11-economies-bigger-than-new-hampshire-luxembourg-or-pepsico/
posted by pthomas745 at 8:13 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
As a Californian and left-leaning American, I've got complicated feelings about this. I love the state and we've done many things right--like very good per capita energy usage numbers even as our economy booms. Domestically I love that we, as a high tax state, dwarf stupid strutting Texas and other red states that claim to "growth friendly."
But damn if we aren't tainted by exploitive and disruptive (in a bad way) tech companies driving a lot of this. I know agriculture is big too, as was mentioned, but that's not driving our economic growth.
Then there is a Bloomberg infographic elsewhere that shows Germany trending nicely above California, both comfortably along the same general regression, until the recent time point that aligns with Russia initiating its war of aggression.
That's not really the trend. The graphic shows Germany had almost 2x the GDP of California in 2008, and most of the gap was closed over the decade plus after that because Germany had a rather anemic growth rate of ~1% from 2008 to 2021. It's true that the projected dip is the reason California will pass Germany now, as opposed in a few years, but the trend was towards it passing it soon-ish. (Would the trend have continued? Of course I don't know.)
I do see the point, but it was this kind of advantage that the US had after two world wars in Europe that catapulted the US to the top as well.
The US reached the top in 1890, twenty years before the first world war. WWI vastly increased the US lead as European reconstruction lagged. But European and Japanese recovery after WWII was amazing--in fact, Japan closed the gap as it rebuilt, despite the rapid US growth.
posted by mark k at 8:16 AM on October 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
But damn if we aren't tainted by exploitive and disruptive (in a bad way) tech companies driving a lot of this. I know agriculture is big too, as was mentioned, but that's not driving our economic growth.
Then there is a Bloomberg infographic elsewhere that shows Germany trending nicely above California, both comfortably along the same general regression, until the recent time point that aligns with Russia initiating its war of aggression.
That's not really the trend. The graphic shows Germany had almost 2x the GDP of California in 2008, and most of the gap was closed over the decade plus after that because Germany had a rather anemic growth rate of ~1% from 2008 to 2021. It's true that the projected dip is the reason California will pass Germany now, as opposed in a few years, but the trend was towards it passing it soon-ish. (Would the trend have continued? Of course I don't know.)
I do see the point, but it was this kind of advantage that the US had after two world wars in Europe that catapulted the US to the top as well.
The US reached the top in 1890, twenty years before the first world war. WWI vastly increased the US lead as European reconstruction lagged. But European and Japanese recovery after WWII was amazing--in fact, Japan closed the gap as it rebuilt, despite the rapid US growth.
posted by mark k at 8:16 AM on October 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
Kalifornia über alles?
posted by njohnson23 at 8:53 AM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 8:53 AM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've said this before, but I think it's worth repeating. When Ive been to national policy/governance meetings, federal government to federal government between Canada and the US, California almost always has a team there, and it's almost always as influential as the rest of the US delegation. It's very much the sense from the outside of a nation existing within a nation.
Sometimes Quebec does this with Canada, but that's more of a political autonomy thing. Quebec insists on their own representation for identity and sovereignty issues. With California it seems much more like a practical, economic thing. They're present because they have so much economic or in my case scientific activity, they come just to make sure that their large basket of interests get the attention they need.
As a Canadian, it makes a lot of sense to me. California is bigger both economically and numerically than Canada, and even within the US have a unique legal/governance environment. Why shouldn't they be there?
posted by bonehead at 9:33 AM on October 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
Sometimes Quebec does this with Canada, but that's more of a political autonomy thing. Quebec insists on their own representation for identity and sovereignty issues. With California it seems much more like a practical, economic thing. They're present because they have so much economic or in my case scientific activity, they come just to make sure that their large basket of interests get the attention they need.
As a Canadian, it makes a lot of sense to me. California is bigger both economically and numerically than Canada, and even within the US have a unique legal/governance environment. Why shouldn't they be there?
posted by bonehead at 9:33 AM on October 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
Pretty much the only state I feel is safe to live in in this entire country. Please keep going California.
posted by bleep at 9:40 AM on October 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by bleep at 9:40 AM on October 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
Wyoming has 1/3 the population of the California county I live in (and it's not even one of the big ones). But they make up for it with 2 senators!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:53 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:53 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Given that California tech companies are in decline (after a heady 2020); a seemingly unfixable housing problem; and continued, severe drought is going to put a damper in California's famed agriculture, I have my doubts.
posted by meowzilla at 11:05 AM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by meowzilla at 11:05 AM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's always entertaining when the right talks about the red states seceding.
My favorite part is that Texas Republicans often posture about seceding, and unilateral secession is unconstitutional per Texas v. White (1869).
posted by kirkaracha at 2:18 PM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
My favorite part is that Texas Republicans often posture about seceding, and unilateral secession is unconstitutional per Texas v. White (1869).
posted by kirkaracha at 2:18 PM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
There are times I regret not moving to California back in the late 90s. So fucking expensive, but my demographic has done exceptionally well since then. California definitely has challenges, but there is will in many quarters do actually do something about it, unlike in my corner of the country where the only animating principles of the state government seem to be cultural grievance and giving corporations the largest tax breaks possible.
Most of California's problems can be solved because they have a vast hoard of wealth and aren't actually taxing people more than most other states already, so if they need more money for crash programs to help with climate change, they can get it.
posted by wierdo at 2:42 PM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Most of California's problems can be solved because they have a vast hoard of wealth and aren't actually taxing people more than most other states already, so if they need more money for crash programs to help with climate change, they can get it.
posted by wierdo at 2:42 PM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
My favorite part is that Texas Republicans often posture about seceding, and unilateral secession is unconstitutional per Texas v. White (1869).
I'm also a big fan of the Six Flags Over Texas slogan, a celebration of the number of times that Texas has been conquered. You guys sure you want to go it alone again?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:02 PM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm also a big fan of the Six Flags Over Texas slogan, a celebration of the number of times that Texas has been conquered. You guys sure you want to go it alone again?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:02 PM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
There are times I regret not moving to California back in the late 90s
I spent a big-ass chunk of my life dreading the day I *had* to move to California (well, actually, *gasp* the Bay Area!). Despite not being in tech, it was generally bandied about that at some point I'd have to move to California to progress in my career. Spent years avoiding it. In part because I liked Chicago, and I had a Problem with suburbia (esp. Chicago-area suburbs)
...turns out every single one of those years was a giant fucking waste of time and money. Every moment I spent trying not to move to California was utterly, utterly wasted. I'm in a great situation, but if I'd moved earlier I'd have been in a much, much, much better situation. Serves me right for having a servile brain I guess, but jesus christ I wish I'd done the right thing a few years earlier.
Plus I drive even less than I did in Chicago, so I dunno wtf I was so pissed about.
I have my doubts
First of all, you absolutely should retain your doubts, I'm not saying you're wrong.
...I am, however, saying that if one of the top five economies on planet earth cannot mitigate their problems, then literally none of the rest of you can, so maybe think about buying a burial plot 'cause we're all fucked (Narrator: they were in fact all fucked).
As I was saying to a friend of mine (SEast) recently, "California's budget surplus is 50% larger than your entire state budget and you think you have a chance of fixing anything? Anything at all? We spend more on traffic lights than your entire healthcare system, and you're falling all over yourselves trying desperately to tax/spend less, while every tax plan that's come to ballot in my area has been approved because we all want to be taxed more, so that the state can pay for stuff."
posted by aramaic at 6:32 PM on October 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
I spent a big-ass chunk of my life dreading the day I *had* to move to California (well, actually, *gasp* the Bay Area!). Despite not being in tech, it was generally bandied about that at some point I'd have to move to California to progress in my career. Spent years avoiding it. In part because I liked Chicago, and I had a Problem with suburbia (esp. Chicago-area suburbs)
...turns out every single one of those years was a giant fucking waste of time and money. Every moment I spent trying not to move to California was utterly, utterly wasted. I'm in a great situation, but if I'd moved earlier I'd have been in a much, much, much better situation. Serves me right for having a servile brain I guess, but jesus christ I wish I'd done the right thing a few years earlier.
Plus I drive even less than I did in Chicago, so I dunno wtf I was so pissed about.
I have my doubts
First of all, you absolutely should retain your doubts, I'm not saying you're wrong.
...I am, however, saying that if one of the top five economies on planet earth cannot mitigate their problems, then literally none of the rest of you can, so maybe think about buying a burial plot 'cause we're all fucked (Narrator: they were in fact all fucked).
As I was saying to a friend of mine (SEast) recently, "California's budget surplus is 50% larger than your entire state budget and you think you have a chance of fixing anything? Anything at all? We spend more on traffic lights than your entire healthcare system, and you're falling all over yourselves trying desperately to tax/spend less, while every tax plan that's come to ballot in my area has been approved because we all want to be taxed more, so that the state can pay for stuff."
posted by aramaic at 6:32 PM on October 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
I was born in CA and live in CO now. I'm quite happy here, but I'm happy to see my scrappy lil' home state make good.
posted by East14thTaco at 1:05 PM on October 27, 2022
posted by East14thTaco at 1:05 PM on October 27, 2022
I'm also a big fan of the Six Flags Over Texas slogan, a celebration of the number of times that Texas has been conquered.
Six Flags also commemorates the two wars that Texas fought in defense of slavery.
I have to say, I love to mess with Texas.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:22 PM on October 27, 2022
Six Flags also commemorates the two wars that Texas fought in defense of slavery.
I have to say, I love to mess with Texas.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:22 PM on October 27, 2022
As a longtime Germanophile and American liberal I found the Bloomberg California-vs-Germany framing to be annoying. Porque no die zwei?
Baden-Württemberg is for my money the California of Germany. Perhaps some Californians here can inform me: what is the Germany of California?
posted by sy at 6:45 PM on October 28, 2022
Baden-Württemberg is for my money the California of Germany. Perhaps some Californians here can inform me: what is the Germany of California?
posted by sy at 6:45 PM on October 28, 2022
what is the Germany of California?
Oh, that's easy: Solvang.
posted by aramaic at 6:49 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh, that's easy: Solvang.
posted by aramaic at 6:49 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
(Yes, yes, Danish. Still, close enough for geopolitical amusement.)
posted by aramaic at 6:51 PM on October 28, 2022
posted by aramaic at 6:51 PM on October 28, 2022
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Also, currently, the CPUC only allows feed-in tariffs for generators between 1.5 and 3 MW. So it excludes homeowners and large solar plants- only mid-size facilities can benefit from the program.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 9:42 PM on October 25, 2022 [2 favorites]