'I'm the problem, it's me:' Ticketmaster's Taylor Swift meltdown
November 18, 2022 7:35 AM Subscribe
Whether you’re a Swiftie superfan, NFL diehard or just enjoy the occasional Broadway musical, virtually everyone agrees that our ticket-buying experience is beyond broken. Trying to see your favorite artist often requires participating in a process that begins with hitting the refresh button hundreds of times over the course of a few minutes and hoping to hit the equivalent of a lottery until finally allowed into a transaction. The lucky ones earn the privilege of being held over a barrel by companies that can charge them whatever and however it would like. The vast majority aren’t so lucky, and must take their efforts to the secondary resale market, where they can expect considerable if not exponential markups on the face value of a ticket.
James Skoufis is a Democratic New York state senator representing the Hudson Valley. In 2021, he undertook a legislative investigation into predatory ticketing practices and has championed wholesale reforms to the industry.
James Skoufis is a Democratic New York state senator representing the Hudson Valley. In 2021, he undertook a legislative investigation into predatory ticketing practices and has championed wholesale reforms to the industry.
Gotta admit, that's a very clever opening to the story. Well done, senator.
posted by martin q blank at 7:47 AM on November 18, 2022
posted by martin q blank at 7:47 AM on November 18, 2022
Yeah, it's wild that Pearl Jam's fully-formed arguments about what is wrong with TicketMaster are old enough to run for Congress and we not only didn't do anything in the decades since to fix the situation, we let TM merge with LiveNation and become even worse.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:54 AM on November 18, 2022 [24 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:54 AM on November 18, 2022 [24 favorites]
I once learned that as a fancy credit card holder, I could get first crack at Billy Joel tickets in Boston. I went to the link, and entered the password they gave me. It said "invalid password." I did a bit of googling, which said "yeah, that's the wrong password, try this one we used for the venue in Buffalo." That password worked. But all the tickets available were extremely mediocre. Whether this was because 5 minutes had elapsed after the sale start time as I googled, or because they only had mediocre tickets to begin with, I have no idea.
Ticketmaster, Twitter, FIFA, the NRA, the Olympics ... don't you get the feeling that the whole world is about to explode?
posted by Melismata at 8:10 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
Ticketmaster, Twitter, FIFA, the NRA, the Olympics ... don't you get the feeling that the whole world is about to explode?
posted by Melismata at 8:10 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
Ticketmaster owns the company that owns the largest, newest venue in my town.
We're starting to see cross-sector gouging supported by a lack of consumer protection laws. We're finding the cracker crumbs in bed. I hope over the next 5-10 years, we see a big shift in support for antitrust and consumer protection.
posted by rebent at 8:12 AM on November 18, 2022 [12 favorites]
We're starting to see cross-sector gouging supported by a lack of consumer protection laws. We're finding the cracker crumbs in bed. I hope over the next 5-10 years, we see a big shift in support for antitrust and consumer protection.
posted by rebent at 8:12 AM on November 18, 2022 [12 favorites]
Top THINK stories related to Taylor Swift
most tempting clickbait of the day
posted by chavenet at 8:17 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
most tempting clickbait of the day
posted by chavenet at 8:17 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ticketmaster, Twitter, FIFA, the NRA, the Olympics ... don't you get the feeling that the whole world is about to explode?
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning, since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No, we didn't light it, but we tried to fight it
posted by Jacen at 8:30 AM on November 18, 2022 [6 favorites]
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning, since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No, we didn't light it, but we tried to fight it
posted by Jacen at 8:30 AM on November 18, 2022 [6 favorites]
I could say I'm nostalgic for the days when you had to camp out early in the morning before Sears opened to get in line at their TicketTron machine, and you actually had a fighting chance to get a ticket because there were only so many terminals and things went slow. But that kind of sucked, too.
The next era where you all tried to call Ticketmaster at 10:00am during a work day was another joy. But that sucked as well. I don't envy what fans have to do now. I went through this earlier this year when the youngin' wanted to see Harry Styles. It all sucks.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:35 AM on November 18, 2022 [8 favorites]
The next era where you all tried to call Ticketmaster at 10:00am during a work day was another joy. But that sucked as well. I don't envy what fans have to do now. I went through this earlier this year when the youngin' wanted to see Harry Styles. It all sucks.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:35 AM on November 18, 2022 [8 favorites]
Widespread legalized scalping hasn't helped. Call it what it is. Scalping. And the scalpers are happy to let tickets go unsold if their overall arbitrage strategy makes them profits.
posted by 1adam12 at 8:40 AM on November 18, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by 1adam12 at 8:40 AM on November 18, 2022 [14 favorites]
This is why I only like things that are unpopular.
posted by box at 8:41 AM on November 18, 2022 [68 favorites]
posted by box at 8:41 AM on November 18, 2022 [68 favorites]
Yeah, the only ticketmaster show I've been able to attend recently was a venue where I knew the owners and folks working the door. I didn't get tickets, but walked by about a half hour into the show and stopped to chat up the door guy (I'd worked with him several years previously) and he said, "You want to go in?"
posted by schyler523 at 8:45 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by schyler523 at 8:45 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is why I only like things that are unpopular.
Dammit. Now that you're into it I can't listen to it anymore.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 8:47 AM on November 18, 2022 [31 favorites]
Dammit. Now that you're into it I can't listen to it anymore.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 8:47 AM on November 18, 2022 [31 favorites]
Just make tickets non-transferable and require some % to be sold directly at the venue’s physical ticket office. Problem solved. Now and then I get sick and can’t go and eat the cost, oh well.
posted by caviar2d2 at 8:47 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by caviar2d2 at 8:47 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
I hope the Swifties kill Ticketmaster.
posted by schyler523 at 8:47 AM on November 18, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by schyler523 at 8:47 AM on November 18, 2022 [22 favorites]
The best compromise I thought of was the system that was used back at my university.
When a big name act came to the campus area there was a lottery. You had a week to put your name in, then they drew numbers to choose your place in line for the day of sale. Tickets were sold physically back then so it was easy to queue in your order and buy what you wanted.
TM's dynamic pricing bullshit wouldn't mesh with this, but it seems like a really easy way to give a few million Swifties an equal chance if TM and the artist were really interested in equity.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:54 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
When a big name act came to the campus area there was a lottery. You had a week to put your name in, then they drew numbers to choose your place in line for the day of sale. Tickets were sold physically back then so it was easy to queue in your order and buy what you wanted.
TM's dynamic pricing bullshit wouldn't mesh with this, but it seems like a really easy way to give a few million Swifties an equal chance if TM and the artist were really interested in equity.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:54 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yeah, seeing them go out of business would be delightful and long-overdue. I've been reading reports of ticket prices going into the thousands... or TENS of thousands? Do I have that right? I don't understand who does this, haven't we established that the vast majority of Americans would be financially ruined by an unexpected $500 medical expense? I don't personally believe the difference between hearing somebody live and hearing them on youtube can possibly be worth more than like 30 bucks--in fact the youtube experience saves you the trouble of breathing somebody's cigarette smoke, getting rained on, etc., etc. But I digress.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:55 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:55 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
“Dingus of the Week: Ticketmaster,” lyz, Men Yell at Me, 18 November 2022
P.S. Liberty Media delenda est.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:55 AM on November 18, 2022
P.S. Liberty Media delenda est.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:55 AM on November 18, 2022
"This is why I only like things that are unpopular."
Weirdly enough this works for me really well. I love small venues, even house concerts, with seats where I can see and hear the artist. People who shut up and listen. I'm so over giant shows.
I've recently managed to see and enjoy, with no ticket shenanigans, The Mavricks ,Chris Issac, Lyle Lovett, Lucy Kaplansky, and slightly less recently, Asleep at the Wheel, the Subdudes, DakhaBrakha and Del McCoury.
These may not be the artists that you love, but every show was reasonably priced, in non-huge venues with great sound, and more about the music than the scene, and no ticket weirdness.
posted by cccorlew at 8:59 AM on November 18, 2022 [12 favorites]
Weirdly enough this works for me really well. I love small venues, even house concerts, with seats where I can see and hear the artist. People who shut up and listen. I'm so over giant shows.
I've recently managed to see and enjoy, with no ticket shenanigans, The Mavricks ,Chris Issac, Lyle Lovett, Lucy Kaplansky, and slightly less recently, Asleep at the Wheel, the Subdudes, DakhaBrakha and Del McCoury.
These may not be the artists that you love, but every show was reasonably priced, in non-huge venues with great sound, and more about the music than the scene, and no ticket weirdness.
posted by cccorlew at 8:59 AM on November 18, 2022 [12 favorites]
.
This is why I only like things that are unpopular.
the turning point for me was catching U2's Joshua Tree tour in 1987 -- a stadium show, fifty or sixty thousand people. It was a rainy, misty night. I recall being herded through various checkpoints, having a wristband applied, lots of of security types in reflective gear waving flashlights around, cutting ominous angles through the mist.
Long story short. I was stoned enough to wonder if this was maybe not a concert at all -- that we were in fact being herded into a massive gas chamber, marked for annihilation. But, of course, it wasn't - it was just market economics in action, a hugely popular product maximizing its profits.
Fuck this shit, I decided, afterwords. The show was good but not great, certainly not near as good as the previous two times I'd seen U2 in significantly smaller venues. And more to the point, not nearly good enough to justify the depersonalizing bullshit.
I don't think I've been to a venue bigger than three thousand capacity since (excepting a few outdoor festival type situations), and I honestly don't think I've missed that much in the intervening three plus decades. Take it from the Situationists, the Spectacle is a monster that wants to eat us all. Just Say No.
posted by philip-random at 8:59 AM on November 18, 2022 [15 favorites]
This is why I only like things that are unpopular.
the turning point for me was catching U2's Joshua Tree tour in 1987 -- a stadium show, fifty or sixty thousand people. It was a rainy, misty night. I recall being herded through various checkpoints, having a wristband applied, lots of of security types in reflective gear waving flashlights around, cutting ominous angles through the mist.
Long story short. I was stoned enough to wonder if this was maybe not a concert at all -- that we were in fact being herded into a massive gas chamber, marked for annihilation. But, of course, it wasn't - it was just market economics in action, a hugely popular product maximizing its profits.
Fuck this shit, I decided, afterwords. The show was good but not great, certainly not near as good as the previous two times I'd seen U2 in significantly smaller venues. And more to the point, not nearly good enough to justify the depersonalizing bullshit.
I don't think I've been to a venue bigger than three thousand capacity since (excepting a few outdoor festival type situations), and I honestly don't think I've missed that much in the intervening three plus decades. Take it from the Situationists, the Spectacle is a monster that wants to eat us all. Just Say No.
posted by philip-random at 8:59 AM on November 18, 2022 [15 favorites]
I've been reading reports of ticket prices going into the thousands... or TENS of thousands? Do I have that right?
Those are prices that are showing up on the resellers like StubHub or VividSeats. Are they actual owners of the tickets, or rechanneled Ticketmaster inventory? Nobody knows. That's part of the awfulness of the situation - TM is scalping their own tickets now.
I just pulled up StubHub for Taylor's Chicago dates and upfront floor seats are listing for around $4,000/seat. So you didn't read that wrong. But whoever is listing at this price is looking for a sucker...and may actually get it. My prediction is that they'll still sell for four figures. Her fans are that dedicated.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:10 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
Those are prices that are showing up on the resellers like StubHub or VividSeats. Are they actual owners of the tickets, or rechanneled Ticketmaster inventory? Nobody knows. That's part of the awfulness of the situation - TM is scalping their own tickets now.
I just pulled up StubHub for Taylor's Chicago dates and upfront floor seats are listing for around $4,000/seat. So you didn't read that wrong. But whoever is listing at this price is looking for a sucker...and may actually get it. My prediction is that they'll still sell for four figures. Her fans are that dedicated.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:10 AM on November 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
The lottery doesn’t help against scalper bots, JoeZydeco. A university has a fairly trustworthy list of members; a fandom doesn’t.
posted by clew at 9:11 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by clew at 9:11 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
Maybe apply the Metafilter technique? Put down a $5 credit card deposit to get a place in the lottery, one reservation per card.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:13 AM on November 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:13 AM on November 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
What NIN and Pearl Jam and U2 do is have fan clubs you pay annual fees to be a member of, and that gets you into presales that are usually pretty reliable for getting a ticket.
What NIN and Pearl Jam and U2 also do these days is they have only virtual tickets, no paper printouts, you have to use the TM app to display the ticket.
NIN for a while was only doing mailed-out physical tickets that had the purchaser's name printed on them and that person had to be with the entire group with those tickets and show ID that matched the name on the tickets.
Pearl Jam has gone through some pretty intense stuff to get away from the scalping, too. I think they ONLY allow resale through their own reselling website and only for face value.
posted by hippybear at 9:17 AM on November 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
What NIN and Pearl Jam and U2 also do these days is they have only virtual tickets, no paper printouts, you have to use the TM app to display the ticket.
NIN for a while was only doing mailed-out physical tickets that had the purchaser's name printed on them and that person had to be with the entire group with those tickets and show ID that matched the name on the tickets.
Pearl Jam has gone through some pretty intense stuff to get away from the scalping, too. I think they ONLY allow resale through their own reselling website and only for face value.
posted by hippybear at 9:17 AM on November 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
I want to push back on the idea that live performance isn’t worth much more than YouTube videos. Sure, some concerts suck, and others are just fine. But when things go well, it’s truly a magical, transcendent experience. I still haven’t forgotten how it felt when Natalie Merchant made eye contact with me thirty years ago, or the bananas stage presence of Sufjan Stevens’ outfit somewhat more recently. Or the way Lauryn Hill made us wait for it and then made it all worthwhile by reinterpreting her hits from the ground up. Live performance is a chance to touch the divine. The fact that it can be priceless is what drives the abusive practices. If it were really only $30 more valuable than staying home and watching clips, there would be no market for it.
posted by rikschell at 9:39 AM on November 18, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 9:39 AM on November 18, 2022 [23 favorites]
box, I was going to make the same joke. The benefit of listening to underground death metal bands with only 10s of album sales is I usually don't have to fight anyone to go see a show.
I think the only time I recall having to use Ticketmaster was the recent NIN tour, and it turns out I had a presale code because of signing up for the email list in a drunken haze at some point in the past. It wasn't a painless experience using the TM interface, but I also didn't have to pay more than $40 per ticket, if memory serves.
Still, that system sucks, and we need better antitrust laws in the US.
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 9:41 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think the only time I recall having to use Ticketmaster was the recent NIN tour, and it turns out I had a presale code because of signing up for the email list in a drunken haze at some point in the past. It wasn't a painless experience using the TM interface, but I also didn't have to pay more than $40 per ticket, if memory serves.
Still, that system sucks, and we need better antitrust laws in the US.
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 9:41 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
The last time I bought tickets for a show had to be through Ticketmaster. No actual tickets, of course. All electronic. I had to put the Ticketmaster app on my phone because the tickets were some kind of dynamic barcode that had to be scanned at the door. As soon as the show was over, I deleted the TM app.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:41 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 9:41 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
The ticket buying process drives my Wife Categorically Nuts... Ticketmaster can't go away faster
posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:49 AM on November 18, 2022
posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:49 AM on November 18, 2022
Maybe Elon will buy Tickmaster next.
posted by briank at 9:53 AM on November 18, 2022 [39 favorites]
posted by briank at 9:53 AM on November 18, 2022 [39 favorites]
we let TM merge with LiveNation and become even worse
Just a reminder that Rahm Emanuel who was Obama's Chief of Staff and then Mayor of Chicago is the brother of Ari Emanuel who is on the board of Live Nation.
That "we" you mention probably doesn't include you and me because we can't afford to buy plates at the fundraisers where the "letting" is determined. That "we" however definitely can be found in the campaign finance records for the Democratic Party. TicketMaster/LiveNation also knows who to comp tickets too so they remain largely unaware of the pain inflicted on the general public.
Regulatory capture, revolving door public service and campaign finance are the reason behind almost all of tolerated ongoing corporate infliction of pain on the public.
posted by srboisvert at 9:56 AM on November 18, 2022 [12 favorites]
Just a reminder that Rahm Emanuel who was Obama's Chief of Staff and then Mayor of Chicago is the brother of Ari Emanuel who is on the board of Live Nation.
That "we" you mention probably doesn't include you and me because we can't afford to buy plates at the fundraisers where the "letting" is determined. That "we" however definitely can be found in the campaign finance records for the Democratic Party. TicketMaster/LiveNation also knows who to comp tickets too so they remain largely unaware of the pain inflicted on the general public.
Regulatory capture, revolving door public service and campaign finance are the reason behind almost all of tolerated ongoing corporate infliction of pain on the public.
posted by srboisvert at 9:56 AM on November 18, 2022 [12 favorites]
Has there ever been a company more deserving of #nukeitfromorbit?
posted by El Curioso at 9:58 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by El Curioso at 9:58 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
I don't understand who does this, haven't we established that the vast majority of Americans would be financially ruined by an unexpected $500 medical expense?
Not that a $500 medical expense wouldn't suck, or that there are plenty who would be, but the vast majority of Americans can afford a $500 unexpected expense. The data on that is simply incorrect. Something like 10% of American households would be unable to afford a $1000 expense without a payday lender or something equally nefarious.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:00 AM on November 18, 2022
Not that a $500 medical expense wouldn't suck, or that there are plenty who would be, but the vast majority of Americans can afford a $500 unexpected expense. The data on that is simply incorrect. Something like 10% of American households would be unable to afford a $1000 expense without a payday lender or something equally nefarious.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:00 AM on November 18, 2022
My absolute favorite observation about this issue comes from a vice article I read recently:
Country superstar Garth Brooks [...] has more or less solved the problem for his fans with one simple trick: He adds shows until they no longer sell out. In recent years, on single tours, Brooks has done the following: He played nine concerts in a row in Edmonton, Canada. He played a dozen shows in Chicago. He played six in Kansas, nine in Tulsa, and eight in Denver.
There's really no other great solution to a lot of people wanting a rare luxury good. Ticketmaster isn't helping but they didn't create the problem.
posted by Wood at 10:00 AM on November 18, 2022 [30 favorites]
Country superstar Garth Brooks [...] has more or less solved the problem for his fans with one simple trick: He adds shows until they no longer sell out. In recent years, on single tours, Brooks has done the following: He played nine concerts in a row in Edmonton, Canada. He played a dozen shows in Chicago. He played six in Kansas, nine in Tulsa, and eight in Denver.
There's really no other great solution to a lot of people wanting a rare luxury good. Ticketmaster isn't helping but they didn't create the problem.
posted by Wood at 10:00 AM on November 18, 2022 [30 favorites]
I just took my daughter to see Lizzo and the Bullshit FeesTM were 35% as much as the tickets themselves. Lucky it was such an amazing show.
How many hours did we spend waiting for the Taylor Swift Capitol One presale gauntlet to start on Wednesday? Then watching the prices soar with every click, even though "someone else" got the tickets first every time anyway? Don't ask. Burn it down and salt the earth.
posted by El Curioso at 10:07 AM on November 18, 2022 [8 favorites]
How many hours did we spend waiting for the Taylor Swift Capitol One presale gauntlet to start on Wednesday? Then watching the prices soar with every click, even though "someone else" got the tickets first every time anyway? Don't ask. Burn it down and salt the earth.
posted by El Curioso at 10:07 AM on November 18, 2022 [8 favorites]
I grew up on heavy metal.
I've stood in line for hours to get tickets (paper ones. Still have all the stubs).
I've dialed the phone for hours with my parent's credit card trying to get past a busy signal to get through to Teletron for tickets.
In each of those situations, if you put forth the effort, getting the ticket was a definite. You might be in the nosebleeds, but you'll get to see your band.
There is no artist or band good enough to inspire the kind of loyalty that gets me to try for hours to get through on the hope that maybe I could pay $800 a pop for shitty, obstructed view seats, only to be told that the StubHubs of the world bought all the tickets.
Screw.
That.
I'll go see Anthrax and Black Label Society for $49 a pop at a club, and happily buy their merch.
posted by prepmonkey at 10:18 AM on November 18, 2022 [8 favorites]
I've stood in line for hours to get tickets (paper ones. Still have all the stubs).
I've dialed the phone for hours with my parent's credit card trying to get past a busy signal to get through to Teletron for tickets.
In each of those situations, if you put forth the effort, getting the ticket was a definite. You might be in the nosebleeds, but you'll get to see your band.
There is no artist or band good enough to inspire the kind of loyalty that gets me to try for hours to get through on the hope that maybe I could pay $800 a pop for shitty, obstructed view seats, only to be told that the StubHubs of the world bought all the tickets.
Screw.
That.
I'll go see Anthrax and Black Label Society for $49 a pop at a club, and happily buy their merch.
posted by prepmonkey at 10:18 AM on November 18, 2022 [8 favorites]
I love those small shows but I can't stand that long any more and my experience with asking for disability accommodation (a chair) is poor. I solve this problem by going to local chamber music shows.
I love big shows. They're like church but for people who don't believe (me). But getting in the door is a huge and overly expensive pain in the ass. And that's not even getting into the COVID risks. (Thank science for N95s!) The smaller shows (especially chamber concerts) don't have that vibe but at least I can get in.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 10:32 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
I love big shows. They're like church but for people who don't believe (me). But getting in the door is a huge and overly expensive pain in the ass. And that's not even getting into the COVID risks. (Thank science for N95s!) The smaller shows (especially chamber concerts) don't have that vibe but at least I can get in.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 10:32 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
(Ok, so imagine the TM lottery, except instead of a web site, it’s a phone number you have to call that doesn’t t have a queuing system so you have to hang up and call back repeatedly until your call is randomly the one that actually gets through. And imagine that instead of concert tickets, it’s a spot in the day’s non-emergency clinic for folks who don’t have primary care physicians; and you can’t book a spot for a later day, you have to call in the morning to get a spot in the clinic evening hours. And that’s the only non-emergency room health care option available if you need an actual in-person appointment…)
posted by eviemath at 10:33 AM on November 18, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 10:33 AM on November 18, 2022 [9 favorites]
T.Swift Statement:
“Well. It goes without saying that I’m extremely protective of my fans. We’ve been doing this for decades together and over the years, I’ve brought so many elements of my career in house. I’ve done this SPECIFICALLY to improve the quality of my fans’ experience by doing it myself with my team who care as much about my fans as I do. It’s really difficult for me to trust an outside entity with these relationships and loyalties, and excruciating for me to just watch mistakes happen with no recourse.
“There are a multitude of reasons why people had such a hard time trying to get tickets and I’m trying to figure out how this situation can be improved moving forward. I’m not going to make excuses for anyone because we asked them, multiple times, if they could handle this kind of demand and we were assured they could. It’s truly amazing that 2.4 million people got tickets, but it really pisses me off that a lot of them feel like they went through several bear attacks to get them.”
“ And to those who didn’t get tickets, all I can say is that my hope is to provide more opportunities for us to all get together and sing these songs. Thank you for wanting to be there. You have no idea how much that means.”
posted by leotrotsky at 11:07 AM on November 18, 2022 [6 favorites]
“Well. It goes without saying that I’m extremely protective of my fans. We’ve been doing this for decades together and over the years, I’ve brought so many elements of my career in house. I’ve done this SPECIFICALLY to improve the quality of my fans’ experience by doing it myself with my team who care as much about my fans as I do. It’s really difficult for me to trust an outside entity with these relationships and loyalties, and excruciating for me to just watch mistakes happen with no recourse.
“There are a multitude of reasons why people had such a hard time trying to get tickets and I’m trying to figure out how this situation can be improved moving forward. I’m not going to make excuses for anyone because we asked them, multiple times, if they could handle this kind of demand and we were assured they could. It’s truly amazing that 2.4 million people got tickets, but it really pisses me off that a lot of them feel like they went through several bear attacks to get them.”
“ And to those who didn’t get tickets, all I can say is that my hope is to provide more opportunities for us to all get together and sing these songs. Thank you for wanting to be there. You have no idea how much that means.”
posted by leotrotsky at 11:07 AM on November 18, 2022 [6 favorites]
I've been to a couple of concerts recently that were at smaller venues and there was no drama with getting tickets because the acts weren't that popular. I was annoyed that I had to go through Ticketmaster with all of their associated fees though. It used to be that the venues would either have tickets for sale at the door or would distribute them to music stores and you could buy tickets there. I guess nowadays they don't want to print out tickets and there aren't many music stores left so we're all stuck paying an extra $10-15 on a $40 ticket.
I wanted to buy tickets for the Muse concert and I am on their mailing list so I got a pre-sale link but when I checked the tickets were more than I was willing to pay, around $100 for pretty bad seats and some packages went up to $1000 or so. Muse is worth paying money to see because they put on a great show but I wanted to take my kids to it as well and there are better things I could spend $400+ on. It used to be that acts would put out tickets at more appropriate prices and if you were lucky you could snag one and if not you would have to pay a whole lot more to a scalper. I assume the bands were aware of the scalper situation but still wanted the tickets to be at a decent price point for the fans that were able to buy the tickets directly even though it meant they were charging less than they could have. Maybe bots changed the situation too much so no one was able to get tickets directly at which point why not have the bands charge more so that they aren't leaving money on the table like they were before.
I also think that Covid related effects are in place because a couple of acts have put out statements saying that they wouldn't be touring because the numbers weren't working. These weren't stadium filling acts but the kind that would probably be able to sell out 5,000-10,000 seat venues. I'm hoping that we're just at a confluence of a bunch of factors right now and that things will get back to how they were before but also something probably does need to be done about Ticketmaster.
And seeing an act live has always been so much better to listening to their album at home for me. The two concerts I went to recently, Idles and Kevin Morby, were really just performers on a stage, there weren't any screens, fancy props, or costume changes like you'd get at a big concert, but they were both extremely enjoyable because of the quality of the performances as well as the energy of the crowd (it got pretty energetic at the Idles concert). No matter how tired I may be the next day, I never regret going to a concert.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:07 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wanted to buy tickets for the Muse concert and I am on their mailing list so I got a pre-sale link but when I checked the tickets were more than I was willing to pay, around $100 for pretty bad seats and some packages went up to $1000 or so. Muse is worth paying money to see because they put on a great show but I wanted to take my kids to it as well and there are better things I could spend $400+ on. It used to be that acts would put out tickets at more appropriate prices and if you were lucky you could snag one and if not you would have to pay a whole lot more to a scalper. I assume the bands were aware of the scalper situation but still wanted the tickets to be at a decent price point for the fans that were able to buy the tickets directly even though it meant they were charging less than they could have. Maybe bots changed the situation too much so no one was able to get tickets directly at which point why not have the bands charge more so that they aren't leaving money on the table like they were before.
I also think that Covid related effects are in place because a couple of acts have put out statements saying that they wouldn't be touring because the numbers weren't working. These weren't stadium filling acts but the kind that would probably be able to sell out 5,000-10,000 seat venues. I'm hoping that we're just at a confluence of a bunch of factors right now and that things will get back to how they were before but also something probably does need to be done about Ticketmaster.
And seeing an act live has always been so much better to listening to their album at home for me. The two concerts I went to recently, Idles and Kevin Morby, were really just performers on a stage, there weren't any screens, fancy props, or costume changes like you'd get at a big concert, but they were both extremely enjoyable because of the quality of the performances as well as the energy of the crowd (it got pretty energetic at the Idles concert). No matter how tired I may be the next day, I never regret going to a concert.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:07 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
"The next era where you all tried to call Ticketmaster at 10:00am during a work day was another joy."
On a rotary phone. I sliced my fingers open with repeated dialing to get Leonard Cohen tickets in '93.
NO RAGRETS
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:33 AM on November 18, 2022 [14 favorites]
On a rotary phone. I sliced my fingers open with repeated dialing to get Leonard Cohen tickets in '93.
NO RAGRETS
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:33 AM on November 18, 2022 [14 favorites]
I still haven’t forgotten how it felt when Natalie Merchant made eye contact with me thirty years ago
Haha, me too!
posted by inexorably_forward at 11:52 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
Haha, me too!
posted by inexorably_forward at 11:52 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
Taylor Swift Says She's "Pissed Off" Her Fans Feel "Like They Went Through Several Bear Attacks" To Get Tickets To Her Tour
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:03 PM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:03 PM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
I ran across a generic article about mobile games a while ago, and how they're now made for the whales, those who spend the most. Everyone else is just tolerated, or there to make the whales feel important.
I see the same pattern with a lot of things these days, tickets among them. Given the shift in who has the money in the world, it's probably inevitable that systems become about the wealthy.
posted by SunSnork at 12:35 PM on November 18, 2022 [12 favorites]
I see the same pattern with a lot of things these days, tickets among them. Given the shift in who has the money in the world, it's probably inevitable that systems become about the wealthy.
posted by SunSnork at 12:35 PM on November 18, 2022 [12 favorites]
Fans Feel "Like They Went Through Several Bear Attacks" To Get Tickets
gay swifties ain't playin'
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:51 PM on November 18, 2022 [10 favorites]
gay swifties ain't playin'
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:51 PM on November 18, 2022 [10 favorites]
> I've dialed the phone for hours with my parent's credit card trying to get past a busy signal to get through to Teletron for tickets.
I haven't memorized my kids' phone numbers, but I still know my mom's (now defunct) calling card number from dialing it over and over to get through to Ticketron for Aerosmith tickets.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:34 PM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
I haven't memorized my kids' phone numbers, but I still know my mom's (now defunct) calling card number from dialing it over and over to get through to Ticketron for Aerosmith tickets.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:34 PM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've stood in line for hours to get tickets (paper ones. Still have all the stubs).
I've dialed the phone for hours with my parent's credit card trying to get past a busy signal to get through to Teletron for tickets.
I miss Grateful Dead Ticket Sales. Going to the post office with my 3x5 card for a postal money order...
The real killer move when Teletron went on sale was to stop by the office and use the PBX and trunk lines to dial out on 5 or 10 lines at once.
posted by mikelieman at 2:25 PM on November 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
I've dialed the phone for hours with my parent's credit card trying to get past a busy signal to get through to Teletron for tickets.
I miss Grateful Dead Ticket Sales. Going to the post office with my 3x5 card for a postal money order...
The real killer move when Teletron went on sale was to stop by the office and use the PBX and trunk lines to dial out on 5 or 10 lines at once.
posted by mikelieman at 2:25 PM on November 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
I had a business partner for a few years in the 1980s whose previous line of work had been scalping tickets, and he'd maintained his connections. For a few years, all I had to do was ask and I had an excellent seat or two for either free or at cost. Prince's Lovesexy tour was a highlight, five or ten rows up, perfect sound and sight lines ...
But then we had a falling out (the guy was a crook -- imagine that) and the gravy train ceased. Fun while it lasted.
posted by philip-random at 3:05 PM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
But then we had a falling out (the guy was a crook -- imagine that) and the gravy train ceased. Fun while it lasted.
posted by philip-random at 3:05 PM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
To get tickets to New Order in Toronto in the eighties I had to drive a random strip mall and buy them with cash from a guy working at jewelry shop. No gps, my mom's car, directions written on a napkin. Next I'll explain how I bought my imported ultraslim AIWA portable cassette player with auto-reverse that fit into my jean jacket breast pocket. On the life was easy side the tickets were just $20 each (~$60 in today's money).
posted by srboisvert at 4:19 PM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 4:19 PM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
Don't believe a word of what T-swift has to say regarding the experience of her fans. She's a Live Nation touring artist, playing Live Nation Venues, with tickets sold on Live Nation's ticketing platform: Ticketmaster. She and her team had to OK all the pricing and ticketing plans. She gets the bulk of the ticket price with various rebates and bonuses to increase her percentage in certain circumstances. Ticketmaster makes available tools for bulk purchasers (you and I call those people scalpers) and puts in a lot of work to have those same bulk purchasers re-sell those tickets on their "fan to fan" re-sale network. Ticketmaster and your girl T-Swift get a piece of those sales as well. Given how inflated the resale prices often are, the chunk they get from those fan to fan sales has the ability to increase their take for a single show by 20 or 30%. If you're an artist making 7 or 8 digits per show, that's not an insignificant amount of money.
There are very few currently active artists with more power and pull in the industry than her. If she had any desire to implement any of the many available strategies to mitigate bulk purchasers or to limit pricing on the fan to fan sales portals, she would have. She wrung out her fans' wallets and then had the unmitigated audacity to act surprised when they got pissed off about it. She is not surprised by what happened, she is surprised she got caught.
Live Nation is the biggest promoter in the world and now they own the venues, the touring companies, and the ticketing system. You're going to pay as much as they want you to pay. Your alternative isn't too great either. AEG is the 2nd largest promoter in the world. They own their own touring companies, venues (a shitload of venues), sports teams, and of course their own ticketing platform (AXS tickets) along with its fan to fan resale portal.
While those arrangements are awful for someone trying to see a show, they are financially amazing for the promoter and the artists who are a part of their touring companies. A lot of the bands I've worked for in a touring capacity have been Live Nation touring bands and they often paid me well above market rates. They can do that because they start off with all the money in the world and, since they own everything involved with each part of the process, they get all the money along the way. They often overpay bands just to price out local and regional promoters. Every medium sized town has several local and regional promoters and venues who have been bringing you the best acts they can afford for many years. Each of those promoters and venues is chilled to the bone whenever there is talk of LN or AEG opening up shop in their town. They know they're gonna get priced out or put into a position where they have no other option than to sell to LN or AEG (LN bought out OCESA and basically took over Mexico, AEG bought Goldenvoice and Concerts West to take over LA, Denver is almost entirely AEG. They've got the larger markets sewn up, now they want the Clevelands of the world).
When the two big players come to town and start outbidding the regional promoters for shows, ticket prices stop being based on what a band typically earns in a similar market with similar conditions. They start being based on how much financial burden a band's fans can bear before a significant number of them balk at the ticket price. The newer dynamic ticket pricing structures used by both are built to do this very thing ruthlessly.
So yeah, What happened in this situation is what was supposed to happen. The only thing that didn't go according to plan was people getting pissed off enough about it to get the DOJ involved.
posted by Siempre La Luna at 6:48 PM on November 18, 2022 [42 favorites]
There are very few currently active artists with more power and pull in the industry than her. If she had any desire to implement any of the many available strategies to mitigate bulk purchasers or to limit pricing on the fan to fan sales portals, she would have. She wrung out her fans' wallets and then had the unmitigated audacity to act surprised when they got pissed off about it. She is not surprised by what happened, she is surprised she got caught.
Live Nation is the biggest promoter in the world and now they own the venues, the touring companies, and the ticketing system. You're going to pay as much as they want you to pay. Your alternative isn't too great either. AEG is the 2nd largest promoter in the world. They own their own touring companies, venues (a shitload of venues), sports teams, and of course their own ticketing platform (AXS tickets) along with its fan to fan resale portal.
While those arrangements are awful for someone trying to see a show, they are financially amazing for the promoter and the artists who are a part of their touring companies. A lot of the bands I've worked for in a touring capacity have been Live Nation touring bands and they often paid me well above market rates. They can do that because they start off with all the money in the world and, since they own everything involved with each part of the process, they get all the money along the way. They often overpay bands just to price out local and regional promoters. Every medium sized town has several local and regional promoters and venues who have been bringing you the best acts they can afford for many years. Each of those promoters and venues is chilled to the bone whenever there is talk of LN or AEG opening up shop in their town. They know they're gonna get priced out or put into a position where they have no other option than to sell to LN or AEG (LN bought out OCESA and basically took over Mexico, AEG bought Goldenvoice and Concerts West to take over LA, Denver is almost entirely AEG. They've got the larger markets sewn up, now they want the Clevelands of the world).
When the two big players come to town and start outbidding the regional promoters for shows, ticket prices stop being based on what a band typically earns in a similar market with similar conditions. They start being based on how much financial burden a band's fans can bear before a significant number of them balk at the ticket price. The newer dynamic ticket pricing structures used by both are built to do this very thing ruthlessly.
So yeah, What happened in this situation is what was supposed to happen. The only thing that didn't go according to plan was people getting pissed off enough about it to get the DOJ involved.
posted by Siempre La Luna at 6:48 PM on November 18, 2022 [42 favorites]
Fuck stadium gigs - smaller gigs by smaller bands are a lot more fun. Past a certain level of fame, the motivation to see someone live has more to do with celebrity culture than love of their music anyway.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:57 AM on November 19, 2022
posted by Paul Slade at 12:57 AM on November 19, 2022
Don't believe a word of what T-swift has to say regarding the experience of her fans. She's a Live Nation touring artist, playing Live Nation Venues, with tickets sold on Live Nation's ticketing platform: Ticketmaster. She and her team had to OK all the pricing and ticketing plans. She gets the bulk of the ticket price with various rebates and bonuses to increase her percentage in certain circumstances. Ticketmaster makes available tools for bulk purchasers (you and I call those people scalpers) and puts in a lot of work to have those same bulk purchasers re-sell those tickets on their "fan to fan" re-sale network. Ticketmaster and your girl T-Swift get a piece of those sales as well. Given how inflated the resale prices often are, the chunk they get from those fan to fan sales has the ability to increase their take for a single show by 20 or 30%. If you're an artist making 7 or 8 digits per show, that's not an insignificant amount of money.
Bruce Springsteen pretty much says "Fuck'em I'm old and cashing out" in his rollingstone interview:
posted by srboisvert at 5:42 AM on November 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Bruce Springsteen pretty much says "Fuck'em I'm old and cashing out" in his rollingstone interview:
What I do is a very simple thing. I tell my guys, “Go out and see what everybody else is doing. Let’s charge a little less.” That’s generally the directions. They go out and set it up. For the past 49 years or however long we’ve been playing, we’ve pretty much been out there under market value. I’ve enjoyed that. It’s been great for the fans.It seems that eventually everyone, including supposed working-class heroes, is corrupted.
This time I told them, “Hey, we’re 73 years old. The guys are there. I want to do what everybody else is doing, my peers.” So that’s what happened. That’s what they did [laughs].
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/bruce-springsteen-covers-lp-fan-outrage-ticket-prices-1234632658/
posted by srboisvert at 5:42 AM on November 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I just took my daughter to see Lizzo and the Bullshit Fees
Odd name to choose for your band...
posted by Paul Slade at 12:12 AM on November 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
Odd name to choose for your band...
posted by Paul Slade at 12:12 AM on November 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
So, there are exclusive venue contracts that Ticketmaster has so nobody else can sell tickets for those places. Yes, that's been true forever. Pearl Jam famously tried to put together a tour without Ticketmaster and wound up playing a lot of weird places like hockey arenas and masonic halls and stuff. Even 25-30 years ago, it was nearly impossible.
But now you also have LiveNation involved, and they sign deals with artists and bands to manage their entire tour, from venues to roadies to merchandising... I think Madonna and U2 both signed 10 year contracts with LN a while back, I'm sure they aren't the only ones.
So you have this end to end monopoly which extends from the touring acts beginning to plan their tour and steps in and becomes literally every step in the chain down to the consumer buying tickets, merch, and concessions. What the kickbacks are to each level of this stack and chain, I have no idea. But that's the situation we're living with right now, and have been for 10-15 years.
posted by hippybear at 6:47 PM on November 21, 2022
But now you also have LiveNation involved, and they sign deals with artists and bands to manage their entire tour, from venues to roadies to merchandising... I think Madonna and U2 both signed 10 year contracts with LN a while back, I'm sure they aren't the only ones.
So you have this end to end monopoly which extends from the touring acts beginning to plan their tour and steps in and becomes literally every step in the chain down to the consumer buying tickets, merch, and concessions. What the kickbacks are to each level of this stack and chain, I have no idea. But that's the situation we're living with right now, and have been for 10-15 years.
posted by hippybear at 6:47 PM on November 21, 2022
Mod note: One deleted. Promoting violence / felonies not okay.
posted by taz (staff) at 10:55 PM on November 21, 2022
posted by taz (staff) at 10:55 PM on November 21, 2022
love those small shows but I can't stand that long any more and my experience with asking for disability accommodation (a chair) is poor.
Yes, most venues suck for this. I recently had tickets to see the Mountain Goats at a venue that I initially told me their “no outside chairs” rule extended to my wheelchair. (!)
The trick, generally, is to bring your own in the form of a mobility aid. My rollator is better than a folding chair to sit on for hours, and the visual cue it gives to other attendees brings out their “let’s get you where you can see” impulse.
Caveat: I hardly go to any concerts ever. But if there’s someone you really want to see in a standing room only venue, consider picking up a used rollator (a walker with brakes and a seat) and taking it in with you.
posted by Well I never at 8:22 AM on November 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yes, most venues suck for this. I recently had tickets to see the Mountain Goats at a venue that I initially told me their “no outside chairs” rule extended to my wheelchair. (!)
The trick, generally, is to bring your own in the form of a mobility aid. My rollator is better than a folding chair to sit on for hours, and the visual cue it gives to other attendees brings out their “let’s get you where you can see” impulse.
Caveat: I hardly go to any concerts ever. But if there’s someone you really want to see in a standing room only venue, consider picking up a used rollator (a walker with brakes and a seat) and taking it in with you.
posted by Well I never at 8:22 AM on November 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
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posted by hippybear at 7:42 AM on November 18, 2022 [102 favorites]