Could you live without a cellphone?
February 11, 2023 9:05 AM Subscribe
Meet the last man without a cellphone Beyond breaking down on the freeway, the 3% of people without cellphones are finding society is blocking them out more than ever. Yet they can memorize directions, read a ton, and are possibly the most chill dudes on the planet.
Wow! Visited the linked site to read about not having a cell phone (and I got that), but also that page has the most interesting article about NYC subway toilet paper dispensers that I’ve ever read.
posted by verytepid at 9:59 AM on February 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by verytepid at 9:59 AM on February 11, 2023 [14 favorites]
I could until this year, but I can't anymore.... My work email REQUIRES two factor identification. The only two options? Receive a call or receive a text. I get prompted to supply the code several times a day.
posted by subdee at 10:00 AM on February 11, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by subdee at 10:00 AM on February 11, 2023 [18 favorites]
I held out for a relatively long while, but eventually not having one made my life more difficult than it would be with one. Now my life is easier in some ways but much worse in others. Such are the paradoxes of the information age.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:06 AM on February 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:06 AM on February 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
I work with the public in service/retail. A good chunk of the customers who walk through the door have cellphones but are completely lost in using them. They’re usually of a certain age where computers were used by scientists and researchers and the future they were expecting was The Jetsons push-button simplicity. Instead, they got touchscreens and nested menus with confusing dark patterns and they are just LOST. They’ll pay cash and write checks whenever they can, they’ll pay extra to have someone else do the task for them but you can see the fear and anxiety in their eyes when they’re called in to interface with the little black box in their pocket. Modern life will just freeze you out if you don’t play by these rules.
posted by Eikonaut at 10:10 AM on February 11, 2023 [38 favorites]
posted by Eikonaut at 10:10 AM on February 11, 2023 [38 favorites]
I was a relatively late adopter. Then someone started stalking me. The downside of not having one became really obvious at that point.
posted by kyrademon at 10:27 AM on February 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 10:27 AM on February 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
I felt like I had a lot in common with the two people interviewed, and I thought I held out for a long time (I was one of the last of my peer group to get one, but that was still only until 2007). I'm a massive introvert, I hardly ever call anyone on the phone and certainly don't feel a need to call people just to chat, have no interest in social media stuff, etc. But, around the time I finally got one, I could see where me not having one was placing a burden on people around me or putting myself in silly situations that could easily be resolved with a cell phone. The first instance of that was when I met up with friends in Vegas for a friend's birthday - we were all staying in different hotels and I had no way of being able to get in touch with anybody to find out where they were to be able to meet up once I left my room. Asking someone else to stick around in one spot while you try to find them is kind of a silly ask when ... I could just have a cell phone like everybody else. Second was when I was taking plans to a building department that was a couple hour drive from my office. About halfway through the drive I started worrying about whether I'd forgotten a form or some other piece of information, and how would I resolve that once I got the where I was going - ask the government official to use their phone so I can make a long-distance phone call? It felt like I'd end up having a bunch of similar situations in the future and I decided that it was actually kinder and more considerate of other's time for me to own one. My use of my phone is still fairly limited compared to a lot of people - for me it's limited to communication device, map, reference guide, and camera.
posted by LionIndex at 10:32 AM on February 11, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by LionIndex at 10:32 AM on February 11, 2023 [20 favorites]
Don't see the issue here of just getting a flip phone instead of a full blown Cell Phone. That'll probably be my next phone if I understand what they have. Cell phone for calling (I call out, I don't answer unless I recognize the number and forget about the voicemail), being able to get texts, a browser for the Internet for the rare times it's useful and the camera. Being able to switch to wifi is useful as well. If I understand them right the flip phones have all of that.
posted by aleph at 10:42 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by aleph at 10:42 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've always hated and had a big ol' resent on for crappy ass, easily broken, shitty flip phones. Those people can't text very easily, can't do much, and the few friends who insist on having them are always like "my flip phone is out of charge again."
Life is designed to have a min-computer on you at all times these days and I shudder to think of certain situations I've been in if I didn't have one on me, especially if you get in trouble on the road. I don't want to use TFA on my phone for work (I got a token because at the time this was instituted, I needed to get my USB port repaired, and also I just try to not do work on my phone), and then they changed the Slack settings so you have to authenticate on your email AND on the phone--you do not get any choice about that latter one. Grrrr. The few people you come across at work that won't use technology--I shudder to think what they did during pandemic when they had no option to just walk on in.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:57 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Life is designed to have a min-computer on you at all times these days and I shudder to think of certain situations I've been in if I didn't have one on me, especially if you get in trouble on the road. I don't want to use TFA on my phone for work (I got a token because at the time this was instituted, I needed to get my USB port repaired, and also I just try to not do work on my phone), and then they changed the Slack settings so you have to authenticate on your email AND on the phone--you do not get any choice about that latter one. Grrrr. The few people you come across at work that won't use technology--I shudder to think what they did during pandemic when they had no option to just walk on in.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:57 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
a browser for the Internet for the rare times it's useful
Literally just not having a web browser would address 98 percent of the negative impacts of my phone ownership, but I’m not sure whether it’s possible to build one that hits the right balance of “technically possible to use when you need to look up something important but only just.”
(I didn’t have a Smart Phone until… 2015? and it affected me pretty much exactly how I predicted it would but I’m in the category of people who pretty much have to have one for work at this point.)
posted by atoxyl at 10:59 AM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Literally just not having a web browser would address 98 percent of the negative impacts of my phone ownership, but I’m not sure whether it’s possible to build one that hits the right balance of “technically possible to use when you need to look up something important but only just.”
(I didn’t have a Smart Phone until… 2015? and it affected me pretty much exactly how I predicted it would but I’m in the category of people who pretty much have to have one for work at this point.)
posted by atoxyl at 10:59 AM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Life is designed to have a min-computer on you at all times these days
I expect you are right but it still makes me very sad.
posted by JanetLand at 11:02 AM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I expect you are right but it still makes me very sad.
posted by JanetLand at 11:02 AM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
i waited and waited to get a cell. later, in 2014, i did a seven week retreat without a phone. i could go without, but fucking phone 2fa can't. gotta login everywhere. ugh.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:07 AM on February 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 11:07 AM on February 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
the most interesting article about NYC subway toilet paper dispensers that I’ve ever read.
what's most interesting to me is that there's more than one article about NYC subway toilet dispensers.
posted by philip-random at 11:11 AM on February 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
what's most interesting to me is that there's more than one article about NYC subway toilet dispensers.
posted by philip-random at 11:11 AM on February 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
Grrrr. The few people you come across at work that won't use technology--I shudder to think what they did during pandemic when they had no option to just walk on in.
UGH. UGH UGH UGH. I have one coworker who refuses to use a cell phone and THIS.
She has a flip phone, only for 2FA purposes for work, which she keeps in her desk drawer in the office. (The flip phone SMS was a special concession just for her in the first place, we're supposed to use an authenticator app not SMS.) We get a mobile device allowance so she doesn't even have to pay for it. She was one of less than 10 people in the whole company who wanted to work out of the office, so we reopened an office just for them as a "pilot" in mid 2020 just to accommodate them.
ANYWAY I digress, one of these refuse to work from home dinguses brought covid into the office, so we did an emergency shut down for cleaning. Easy enough to send an email/text blast to everyone saying don't come in for 48 hours, also you may have been exposed please isolate and get tested. EXCEPT FOR NO CELL PHONE LADY. My on-site office employee was the sole caretaker to her disabled mom, so couldn't spend time dealing with this after hours NOT THAT SHE SHOULD HAVE TO, so I had to stop my evening to go look up no cell phone lady's home phone number, talk to her husband, then call back 10 minutes later because his sexist incompetent ass refused to relay a message and his wife was running an errand, THEN call back 10 minutes after that because "she was late coming home" and all that just to say hey don't come into work tomorrow your ass gon get covid. AND THEN I got to repeat this every time we had a covid scare in that office for the next YEAR.
When your priggish luddite holier than thou is this something I'd have to own a TV to understand bullshit attitude impacts the other people around you, it doesn't make you a brave opponent of the establishment. It makes you an ass.
Don't like the "always on" expectation that comes with mobile phones? Cool, me neither. I guarantee I'm a bigger introvert than you. That's why I turn my notifications off and only check on things when I want to see them.
UGH.
posted by phunniemee at 11:18 AM on February 11, 2023 [65 favorites]
UGH. UGH UGH UGH. I have one coworker who refuses to use a cell phone and THIS.
She has a flip phone, only for 2FA purposes for work, which she keeps in her desk drawer in the office. (The flip phone SMS was a special concession just for her in the first place, we're supposed to use an authenticator app not SMS.) We get a mobile device allowance so she doesn't even have to pay for it. She was one of less than 10 people in the whole company who wanted to work out of the office, so we reopened an office just for them as a "pilot" in mid 2020 just to accommodate them.
ANYWAY I digress, one of these refuse to work from home dinguses brought covid into the office, so we did an emergency shut down for cleaning. Easy enough to send an email/text blast to everyone saying don't come in for 48 hours, also you may have been exposed please isolate and get tested. EXCEPT FOR NO CELL PHONE LADY. My on-site office employee was the sole caretaker to her disabled mom, so couldn't spend time dealing with this after hours NOT THAT SHE SHOULD HAVE TO, so I had to stop my evening to go look up no cell phone lady's home phone number, talk to her husband, then call back 10 minutes later because his sexist incompetent ass refused to relay a message and his wife was running an errand, THEN call back 10 minutes after that because "she was late coming home" and all that just to say hey don't come into work tomorrow your ass gon get covid. AND THEN I got to repeat this every time we had a covid scare in that office for the next YEAR.
When your priggish luddite holier than thou is this something I'd have to own a TV to understand bullshit attitude impacts the other people around you, it doesn't make you a brave opponent of the establishment. It makes you an ass.
Don't like the "always on" expectation that comes with mobile phones? Cool, me neither. I guarantee I'm a bigger introvert than you. That's why I turn my notifications off and only check on things when I want to see them.
UGH.
posted by phunniemee at 11:18 AM on February 11, 2023 [65 favorites]
Cellphones are often a problem for elderly people. My late dad (who would be mid-80s if still alive now) could just manage a candy-bar dumbphone, but it was confusing and annoying to him, and simply did not get touch screen devices... and his broad dry fingers always went on the wrong place. I looked for ways to help him learn and couldn't find any. In the early days of computers that adopted the mouse and windows interface, they had tutorials and simple games to help you learn how, but such things don't exist for touchscreens. Every tutorial I found for phones and tablets assumed you already knew the fundamentals. Of course for our least well off old folk, cost is a problem.
Which is the other group of people who don't have phones. Not relaxed dudes who don't care for them, but people who cannot afford one. They exist.
Case in point for the issues here is the serious flooding and storm we experienced in Auckland last week (and if unlucky will have again today and tomorrow). So much of the advice assumes you have a cellphone! Check this web site. Txt this number. Call this number (even though you're unable to stay in your house and there are no payphones any more). In-person services from government and city councils is shrinking and disappearing. The digital divide is real.
These dudes are interesting and I think what they say is valuable, but let's distinguish people who voluntarily do not own a cellphone (or smartphone), from people who for one reason or another would use one but can't -- a substantial chunk of that 3 percent, I suspect.
(I personally often go out without my phone. I enjoy not having the temptation to fiddle with it and I don't want random contact sometimes.)
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:29 AM on February 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
Which is the other group of people who don't have phones. Not relaxed dudes who don't care for them, but people who cannot afford one. They exist.
Case in point for the issues here is the serious flooding and storm we experienced in Auckland last week (and if unlucky will have again today and tomorrow). So much of the advice assumes you have a cellphone! Check this web site. Txt this number. Call this number (even though you're unable to stay in your house and there are no payphones any more). In-person services from government and city councils is shrinking and disappearing. The digital divide is real.
These dudes are interesting and I think what they say is valuable, but let's distinguish people who voluntarily do not own a cellphone (or smartphone), from people who for one reason or another would use one but can't -- a substantial chunk of that 3 percent, I suspect.
(I personally often go out without my phone. I enjoy not having the temptation to fiddle with it and I don't want random contact sometimes.)
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:29 AM on February 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
Nope. Don't care about your expectation of being reached 24 hrs. Put a sign on the door "No entry for 24 hours for emergency cleaning, call for details". And since I didn't have the 24 hr phone => my problem when I show up and get the door closed.
posted by aleph at 11:31 AM on February 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by aleph at 11:31 AM on February 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
Nope. Don't care about your expectation of being reached 24 hrs. Put a sign on the door "No entry for 24 hours for emergency cleaning, call for details". And since I didn't have the 24 hr phone => my problem when I show up and get the door closed.
I mean, I've got to assume the person telling the story has a greater insight into the temperament and expectations of the people involved and the company policies at play than the person who just read it. Just guessing that there are reasons why that wouldn't be a good option. Even if it would be for you, in a completely different situation.
posted by Gygesringtone at 11:36 AM on February 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
I mean, I've got to assume the person telling the story has a greater insight into the temperament and expectations of the people involved and the company policies at play than the person who just read it. Just guessing that there are reasons why that wouldn't be a good option. Even if it would be for you, in a completely different situation.
posted by Gygesringtone at 11:36 AM on February 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
RE using cellphones for 2FA, my college uses DUO 2FA for employees, and District decided to institute it for students as well, starting this Fall. We all expect it to be a major IT support cluster**** to get all of our students to be able to manage this, especially when many of them don’t have cell phones. We recently found out that DUO lets you authenticate from another device, such as a laptop, but this probably will not solve the bulk of the issues that arise.
posted by darkstar at 11:36 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by darkstar at 11:36 AM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I had to stop my evening to go look up no cell phone lady's home phone number, talk to her husband
I'm sorry you were inconvenienced but I feel like this is also the fault of HR or somebody else at your company for not having their employees' contact information on file. I can't help but think should be a process for this type of situation. If there wasn't the first time, there sure should have been for the second time. Apart from her unwillingness to use technology, a lot of people can and do just turn their work phone off at the end of their day, and that should be okay.
(And in my mind when you called and left a message with her husband, in my mind your responsibility is over. Even if you couldn't tell her husband, I don't think this is a call every ten minutes thing. It's a "Please tell her to call me when she gets in" situation, or a "I'll call back in an hour when she's home" thing. And get someone to leave a note on the door, as aleph said.)
posted by synecdoche at 11:38 AM on February 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
I'm sorry you were inconvenienced but I feel like this is also the fault of HR or somebody else at your company for not having their employees' contact information on file. I can't help but think should be a process for this type of situation. If there wasn't the first time, there sure should have been for the second time. Apart from her unwillingness to use technology, a lot of people can and do just turn their work phone off at the end of their day, and that should be okay.
(And in my mind when you called and left a message with her husband, in my mind your responsibility is over. Even if you couldn't tell her husband, I don't think this is a call every ten minutes thing. It's a "Please tell her to call me when she gets in" situation, or a "I'll call back in an hour when she's home" thing. And get someone to leave a note on the door, as aleph said.)
posted by synecdoche at 11:38 AM on February 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
Nope. Don't care about your expectation of being reached 24 hrs. Put a sign on the door "No entry for 24 hours for emergency cleaning, call for details". And since I didn't have the 24 hr phone => my problem when I show up and get the door closed.
Who's putting up the sign?
Not me, I live 1000 miles away from that office.
The office employee taking care of her disabled mom?
You've been exposed to covid. So it's cool for you to walk your covid exposed mouth breathing face through the building, into the elevator, past all the other building's tenants, to read a sign? That someone else has had to put there? For you? Just for you?
Your problem when you show up multiplies into many other people's problems.
Also, not that you give a shit but no cell phone lady has a physical disability so it is a personal human kindness to reduce the amount of time she has to spend walking, and because I know her, no matter how annoyed I may personally be by her, I know that she would need to enter the office to take a seat and rest for several minutes before she'd be able to take the journey back down to her car to go home.
Things are ALWAYS more complicated than you think, which is why when technology gives us a small edge up on making things easier, safer, and better...
posted by phunniemee at 11:39 AM on February 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
Who's putting up the sign?
Not me, I live 1000 miles away from that office.
The office employee taking care of her disabled mom?
You've been exposed to covid. So it's cool for you to walk your covid exposed mouth breathing face through the building, into the elevator, past all the other building's tenants, to read a sign? That someone else has had to put there? For you? Just for you?
Your problem when you show up multiplies into many other people's problems.
Also, not that you give a shit but no cell phone lady has a physical disability so it is a personal human kindness to reduce the amount of time she has to spend walking, and because I know her, no matter how annoyed I may personally be by her, I know that she would need to enter the office to take a seat and rest for several minutes before she'd be able to take the journey back down to her car to go home.
Things are ALWAYS more complicated than you think, which is why when technology gives us a small edge up on making things easier, safer, and better...
posted by phunniemee at 11:39 AM on February 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
I'm sorry you were inconvenienced but I feel like this is also the fault of HR or somebody else at your company for not having their employees' contact information on file. I can't help but think should be a process for this type of situation.
is me. i am hr. i am the process. the process was me. you are seeing the process live in action. her home phone was on file, with me, where i got it and called it.
ACTUALLY, the process was to use two established modes of communication to provide this emergency notification, with further documentation to follow during business hours the following day. But by not participating in either form of being able to receive that emergency notification, I had to create a different process.
nb. I work at a tech company.
posted by phunniemee at 11:43 AM on February 11, 2023 [38 favorites]
I know a ton of people around here without cell phones, in the way this guy doesn't have one (i.e. he HAS one he doesn't USE it)
My experience has always been that men without cell phones usually have a spouse, usually a female spouse, who does have a cell phone. I feel like with other things that people can't/won't do, like non-drivers, there's at least an awareness that it's a thing that is normative in society. It's okay not to drive, it's okay to not be able to drive, those are all okay things, but there's often a cost associated with things like non-driving (living near public transpo, getting rides from friends, any number of workarounds) and those are visible and obvious. The no-cell-phone thing can be a little more opaque in terms of what it means for the people around you. And yes, cell phones are normative. Doesn't mean you have to like it, but does mean it's okay that people presume you have one
And this is very RTMI because I was invited to a dinner party last night (I'm not a great dinner party person but I figured I'd try) and when I sat down to dinner, placing my iphone face down on the table--because it literally won't fit in my stupid ladypants with their dumb pockets when I sit down--I was told "No phones at the table." like I was a fucking child. And, like, I get it you feel like smart phones are ruining the world with their electronic tether and blablabla. But, like so many other technology things, the fact that people use a thing badly doesn't inherently mean that the thing is bad, but it does mean, as this guy says, it's often better if people can be more intentional about how they use it. But it's easier to say that the problem is the device and not larger societal issues that are harder to manage.
posted by jessamyn at 11:57 AM on February 11, 2023 [33 favorites]
My experience has always been that men without cell phones usually have a spouse, usually a female spouse, who does have a cell phone. I feel like with other things that people can't/won't do, like non-drivers, there's at least an awareness that it's a thing that is normative in society. It's okay not to drive, it's okay to not be able to drive, those are all okay things, but there's often a cost associated with things like non-driving (living near public transpo, getting rides from friends, any number of workarounds) and those are visible and obvious. The no-cell-phone thing can be a little more opaque in terms of what it means for the people around you. And yes, cell phones are normative. Doesn't mean you have to like it, but does mean it's okay that people presume you have one
And this is very RTMI because I was invited to a dinner party last night (I'm not a great dinner party person but I figured I'd try) and when I sat down to dinner, placing my iphone face down on the table--because it literally won't fit in my stupid ladypants with their dumb pockets when I sit down--I was told "No phones at the table." like I was a fucking child. And, like, I get it you feel like smart phones are ruining the world with their electronic tether and blablabla. But, like so many other technology things, the fact that people use a thing badly doesn't inherently mean that the thing is bad, but it does mean, as this guy says, it's often better if people can be more intentional about how they use it. But it's easier to say that the problem is the device and not larger societal issues that are harder to manage.
posted by jessamyn at 11:57 AM on February 11, 2023 [33 favorites]
As a pinephone user compared to Android or iOS its like not having a cell phone.
posted by rough ashlar at 11:58 AM on February 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by rough ashlar at 11:58 AM on February 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Never heard of a pinephone, but I looked it up and it looks intriguing. I am addicted to my phone and I don't want to be. I've deleted the apps which took most of my time (Chess, WordsWithFriends, Twitter) but I still find myself on it more than I want to be. I do need texting, calls, and a browser.
posted by chaz at 12:05 PM on February 11, 2023
posted by chaz at 12:05 PM on February 11, 2023
While I know that misery loves company, I don’t think our collective choice to live in Hell (having an anxiety machine on our persons at all times) should obligate others to torture themselves because it is inconvenient for us that they not be tortured.
posted by cupcakeninja at 12:14 PM on February 11, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 12:14 PM on February 11, 2023 [15 favorites]
placing my iphone face down on the table
In our house that's a signal for "the phone is here and not in my hand so I'm not using it" because of pocket situations. I started that at restaurants pre-COVID as a way of signaling we should talk during the meal instead of getting distracted by pretty things on the internet.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:15 PM on February 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
In our house that's a signal for "the phone is here and not in my hand so I'm not using it" because of pocket situations. I started that at restaurants pre-COVID as a way of signaling we should talk during the meal instead of getting distracted by pretty things on the internet.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:15 PM on February 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
Chaz - Its 4G. When AT&T moved to shut off 3G they went to a WHITELIST and the phone wasn't on the whitelist. So a phone that worked on their network last week would not work going forward. Verizon - does not claim they will support. It may or may not work. You are left with T-mobile. It will do what you are looking for but doesn't support wi-fi calls/SMS like an Android would.
You can de-google a phone to limit tracking. iOS - no real way to turn off what Apple obtains. If advertising tracking matters its one of the few phones that will accept calls/make calls and you are rather sure advertising tracking isn't happening.
If getting replacement parts is a thing you want it will scratch that itch. But not any kind of water resistance rating.
You do get to tell the 'download the app' people they are the source of failure as they have not made the app for that phone. And if they try to shame you for not having an iPhone or Android you can mock them right back.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:17 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
You can de-google a phone to limit tracking. iOS - no real way to turn off what Apple obtains. If advertising tracking matters its one of the few phones that will accept calls/make calls and you are rather sure advertising tracking isn't happening.
If getting replacement parts is a thing you want it will scratch that itch. But not any kind of water resistance rating.
You do get to tell the 'download the app' people they are the source of failure as they have not made the app for that phone. And if they try to shame you for not having an iPhone or Android you can mock them right back.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:17 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have one and quite like it. However, I make a point of boycotting businesses that require one in order to be their customer.
Takeout restaurant that only lets me order through Instagram? Go fuck yourself. I'll starve.
No phone at your shop — "Send us a Facebook Message!" — no thanks, I'll shop at your competitor.
"Use Whatsapp to get support for the item you just bought!" Nope, I'll be sending it back for a refund instead.
Etc.
I have two friends without cellphones. One I'm very happy about; the other annoys me to no end.
posted by dobbs at 12:31 PM on February 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
Takeout restaurant that only lets me order through Instagram? Go fuck yourself. I'll starve.
No phone at your shop — "Send us a Facebook Message!" — no thanks, I'll shop at your competitor.
"Use Whatsapp to get support for the item you just bought!" Nope, I'll be sending it back for a refund instead.
Etc.
I have two friends without cellphones. One I'm very happy about; the other annoys me to no end.
posted by dobbs at 12:31 PM on February 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
What is this about flipphones not holding charge? My little candybar fake blackberry darling 3G phone would hold a charge forever. Forever. Like two weeks of heavy use. I texted on it like a mad thing because it had the keyboard and I learned to doublethumb mostly without looking at it. It was AwEsOmE.
OTOH I don't at all understand refusing to get a phone to enable work to text and call constantly but also wanting to physically be at work. I want a whole lot LESS work, and working from home has been a blissful part of that.
Work doesn't get my cell number because the second I give it to them, work will text and call me on it constantfuckingly for the updates I currently receive only in work e-mail about violent crime and disaster doings on and near campus. It's like being on The Circle. ALERT! There's a strange smell! There's a bomb threat! Somebody got mugged on the way back to their dorm! There's a noose/swastika/scarily mutilated babydoll in campus building A, now campus building B, now campus building C. A tree fell, there's yet another rapist, now there's a rabid dog shambling around the science library! Somewhere proximate to campus there was a convenience store break-in! Somebody's breaking into cars at parking lot X, now parking lot Y, now parking lot Z! Just a constant stream of mayhem blah blah blah forever world without end, and they send them one after another back to back and they don't care if it's three in the morning--people have told me they get awoken by the blingblings. No the hell thank you.
posted by Don Pepino at 12:35 PM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
OTOH I don't at all understand refusing to get a phone to enable work to text and call constantly but also wanting to physically be at work. I want a whole lot LESS work, and working from home has been a blissful part of that.
Work doesn't get my cell number because the second I give it to them, work will text and call me on it constantfuckingly for the updates I currently receive only in work e-mail about violent crime and disaster doings on and near campus. It's like being on The Circle. ALERT! There's a strange smell! There's a bomb threat! Somebody got mugged on the way back to their dorm! There's a noose/swastika/scarily mutilated babydoll in campus building A, now campus building B, now campus building C. A tree fell, there's yet another rapist, now there's a rabid dog shambling around the science library! Somewhere proximate to campus there was a convenience store break-in! Somebody's breaking into cars at parking lot X, now parking lot Y, now parking lot Z! Just a constant stream of mayhem blah blah blah forever world without end, and they send them one after another back to back and they don't care if it's three in the morning--people have told me they get awoken by the blingblings. No the hell thank you.
posted by Don Pepino at 12:35 PM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
cost is a problem
Some states have special programs to address this; if you know anyone who might benefit it would probably be a courtesy to see if your area has something. Even in less civilized states there are occasionally local/charitable programs in their more humane areas.
posted by aramaic at 12:37 PM on February 11, 2023
Some states have special programs to address this; if you know anyone who might benefit it would probably be a courtesy to see if your area has something. Even in less civilized states there are occasionally local/charitable programs in their more humane areas.
posted by aramaic at 12:37 PM on February 11, 2023
I make a point of boycotting businesses that require one in order to be their customer
Quite a lot of restaurants / bars around where I live now want you to order from the table using some QR code business. I have learned that telling the staff that you don't have a smartphone gets you an eyeroll and irritation, but the magic phrase "my phone is flat" gets you sympathy, empathy, and uncomplaining access to the old fashioned process.
posted by Luddite at 12:48 PM on February 11, 2023 [24 favorites]
Quite a lot of restaurants / bars around where I live now want you to order from the table using some QR code business. I have learned that telling the staff that you don't have a smartphone gets you an eyeroll and irritation, but the magic phrase "my phone is flat" gets you sympathy, empathy, and uncomplaining access to the old fashioned process.
posted by Luddite at 12:48 PM on February 11, 2023 [24 favorites]
Am I the only one who thinks they are just too small to be an effective communication channel? And "typing" too slow and awkward? (Don't even get me started on the s l o w n e s s [and lack of privacy] of speech interfaces). This is a terrible way to communicate -- just when we need to be most clear and most warm in our interactions with everyone else.
posted by amtho at 12:51 PM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by amtho at 12:51 PM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Not sure where this fits in with the discussion, other than as a wish that a failed product had gone another way, but does anyone remember Windows Phone 8 and/or 10?
The interface was very good in terms of 'large bright colored clearly labeled buttons for children and old people'. And while it was a very good phone for basic functions - calls, text, mail, camera - it totally failed to compete with iPhone and Android because of the 'App Gap'; very few of the popular smartphone apps had a Windows Phone version.
I think that rather than a fail, this could have been a bonus, in either of two alternate universes:
1 - Corporate 'Work Phone' for Microsoft-centric entities. A phone & text device that was also a pocket client for Outlook, Skype, and Teams, but very little else, could have been a thing. Something simple for IT to do Mobile Device Management and Security with, is much better that whatever jailbroken malware-ridden Android slab that you hand to your toddler when they get bored.
The fact that it wouldn't have social media or entertainment apps would have been a selling point! And made things much easier as a 'this one is my personal phone with all my goodies but no proprietary work stuff; and this is my second phone, that only does work stuff and serves as a two-factor token. I turn it off on the weekends.'
2 - Consumer 'Simplified Smartphone'.
Big buttons, makes calls and texts, a calendar to remind you to take the yellow pill at 3pm, tells you the weather. No twitter, grindr, or Facebook app, sure.
If you want to send baby pictures to grandma you simply email or text them to her.
Anyway, that's just wishful thinking, for an alternate universe where a viable product had been made out of
"It's not a complicated scary smartphone: it's simply Microsoft Communicator. It communicates. That's all."
posted by bartleby at 12:52 PM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
The interface was very good in terms of 'large bright colored clearly labeled buttons for children and old people'. And while it was a very good phone for basic functions - calls, text, mail, camera - it totally failed to compete with iPhone and Android because of the 'App Gap'; very few of the popular smartphone apps had a Windows Phone version.
I think that rather than a fail, this could have been a bonus, in either of two alternate universes:
1 - Corporate 'Work Phone' for Microsoft-centric entities. A phone & text device that was also a pocket client for Outlook, Skype, and Teams, but very little else, could have been a thing. Something simple for IT to do Mobile Device Management and Security with, is much better that whatever jailbroken malware-ridden Android slab that you hand to your toddler when they get bored.
The fact that it wouldn't have social media or entertainment apps would have been a selling point! And made things much easier as a 'this one is my personal phone with all my goodies but no proprietary work stuff; and this is my second phone, that only does work stuff and serves as a two-factor token. I turn it off on the weekends.'
2 - Consumer 'Simplified Smartphone'.
Big buttons, makes calls and texts, a calendar to remind you to take the yellow pill at 3pm, tells you the weather. No twitter, grindr, or Facebook app, sure.
If you want to send baby pictures to grandma you simply email or text them to her.
Anyway, that's just wishful thinking, for an alternate universe where a viable product had been made out of
"It's not a complicated scary smartphone: it's simply Microsoft Communicator. It communicates. That's all."
posted by bartleby at 12:52 PM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
"Some states have special programs to address this"
Like most people, I don't live in the US.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:54 PM on February 11, 2023 [15 favorites]
Like most people, I don't live in the US.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:54 PM on February 11, 2023 [15 favorites]
I live in Japan and of course cell phones are as ubiquitous here as anywhere. I do use mine to listen to music and podcasts, but when I ride the train or have some time to kill, I pull out my Kindle. Because there are so many books to read! I see other people with Kindles on rare occasions (or even--gasp!--paper books), but yeah when on the train, just look around and it's pretty common for every single person I can see on the train to be glued to their phone.
No way I'd give up my phone--it's too convenient. But I avoid looking like those zombies on the train, mindlessly popping bubbles or whatever. Well, mostly avoid.
posted by zardoz at 1:13 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
No way I'd give up my phone--it's too convenient. But I avoid looking like those zombies on the train, mindlessly popping bubbles or whatever. Well, mostly avoid.
posted by zardoz at 1:13 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I could until this year, but I can't anymore.... My work email REQUIRES two factor identification. The only two options? Receive a call or receive a text. I get prompted to supply the code several times a day.
Two factor authentication that uses text or call can at least be done with a flip phone (or even a landline). But starting in the last year, I now have a couple of work 2-FAs that require you to have an app on a smartphone as part of the authentication process. For one of them there might be a work around, but the other straight up requires the app authentication, with not alternate. It's ok personally, in that I earn a salary that can accommodate a modern smart phone with a data plan, but more generally effectively requiring that everyone have this is unfair.
posted by Dip Flash at 1:21 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Two factor authentication that uses text or call can at least be done with a flip phone (or even a landline). But starting in the last year, I now have a couple of work 2-FAs that require you to have an app on a smartphone as part of the authentication process. For one of them there might be a work around, but the other straight up requires the app authentication, with not alternate. It's ok personally, in that I earn a salary that can accommodate a modern smart phone with a data plan, but more generally effectively requiring that everyone have this is unfair.
posted by Dip Flash at 1:21 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Literally just not having a web browser would address 98 percent of the negative impacts of my phone ownership, but I’m not sure whether it’s possible to build one that hits the right balance of “technically possible to use when you need to look up something important but only just.”
I can confirm that it is possible! The browser on the Flip Go phone is like this. It's not so much the browser, though, but the small screen size that makes it so. So perhaps what you'd need on a smart phone is a browser that can only use a quarter of the screen.
posted by aws17576 at 1:39 PM on February 11, 2023
I can confirm that it is possible! The browser on the Flip Go phone is like this. It's not so much the browser, though, but the small screen size that makes it so. So perhaps what you'd need on a smart phone is a browser that can only use a quarter of the screen.
posted by aws17576 at 1:39 PM on February 11, 2023
I’m surprised that this discussion hasn’t gotten more into the attention/personal data economy. I.e., it’s certainly true that smartphones aren’t bad in and of themselves, as a technology; it’s just that they’re the conduit through which companies that profit from our attention or data (in exchange for content/entertainment) do business. And because we participants in that exchange often aren’t even conscious of what’s being extracted from us as we’re being entertained, we give more of it than we mean to — time, focus, awareness of the moment we’re in.
I think a lot about how poorly I prepared my daughter for all this. She’s 21 and happy and I don’t have any reason to believe that her phone ruined anything for her — maybe I’m just another crotchety middle-aged technophobe. But when we finally got here a phone in here early teens, I never found a way to articulate to her that “you are the product!” in a way that broke through (I think), and I would’ve felt better if I were confident she understood that every time she picked the thing up.
posted by The Baffled King at 1:49 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think a lot about how poorly I prepared my daughter for all this. She’s 21 and happy and I don’t have any reason to believe that her phone ruined anything for her — maybe I’m just another crotchety middle-aged technophobe. But when we finally got here a phone in here early teens, I never found a way to articulate to her that “you are the product!” in a way that broke through (I think), and I would’ve felt better if I were confident she understood that every time she picked the thing up.
posted by The Baffled King at 1:49 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own A Television Cellphone
I like how the first guy they interviewed does, in fact, own a cellphone.
posted by automatronic at 1:57 PM on February 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
I like how the first guy they interviewed does, in fact, own a cellphone.
posted by automatronic at 1:57 PM on February 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
I like how the first guy they interviewed does, in fact, own a cellphone.
The dickish part was where he never takes it anywhere, but fully assumes that he'll be able to use someone else's phone if he actually needs to use one, and it read to me like that situation has happened before.
posted by LionIndex at 2:09 PM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
The dickish part was where he never takes it anywhere, but fully assumes that he'll be able to use someone else's phone if he actually needs to use one, and it read to me like that situation has happened before.
posted by LionIndex at 2:09 PM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
I have complete sympathy for anyone over 70 trying to navigate how "online" everything is for them these days. My in-laws--especially my mother-in-law--is frustrated by how much of her everyday life now requires access to a smartphone. I'd hazard that my husband's phone calls with them have become at least 50% tech support. They didn't want a smartphone but so much around them has changed, they had no choice.
Edited to add: I am so grateful that my in-laws and my mom want nothing to do with social media so Facebook or anything like that is of no interest. Whew!
posted by Kitteh at 2:09 PM on February 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
Edited to add: I am so grateful that my in-laws and my mom want nothing to do with social media so Facebook or anything like that is of no interest. Whew!
posted by Kitteh at 2:09 PM on February 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
I'm almost 70, my friends are all of a certain age, and yes, we can all navigate our computers, smart phones, turntables, Netflix, etc...just fine, thank you. So, enough with the "old people can't use (fill in technology here)" tropes. ( I know there are some, of course.)
I admit I absolutely hate using my phone for day to day internet tasks like browsing or shopping, etc. Just a painful, ad stuffed, slow, and useless for me. I'll use it on the road on vacation, but it is still awful. But, all the other basics of interaction with other people and phones work just fine for me.
What I truly love, though, are visiting friends who use their phone apps to navigate Southern California traffic. Yes, the "shortest" route that saves you 5 minutes certainly looks enticing...but Google doesn't live here, and it is leading you astray!
posted by pthomas745 at 2:16 PM on February 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
I admit I absolutely hate using my phone for day to day internet tasks like browsing or shopping, etc. Just a painful, ad stuffed, slow, and useless for me. I'll use it on the road on vacation, but it is still awful. But, all the other basics of interaction with other people and phones work just fine for me.
What I truly love, though, are visiting friends who use their phone apps to navigate Southern California traffic. Yes, the "shortest" route that saves you 5 minutes certainly looks enticing...but Google doesn't live here, and it is leading you astray!
posted by pthomas745 at 2:16 PM on February 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
I was probably not an early adopter to cell phones, and for the longest time I didn't use it to literally do anything but make calls periodically.
Then in 2007 I got a blackberry ebook reader that also takes calls. Now I basically have an apple branded ebook reader and video player that also takes calls.
posted by tclark at 2:21 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Then in 2007 I got a blackberry ebook reader that also takes calls. Now I basically have an apple branded ebook reader and video player that also takes calls.
posted by tclark at 2:21 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Asking someone else to stick around in one spot while you try to find them is kind of a silly ask when ... I could just have a cell phone like everybody else.
I honestly don't remember how I even did things with friends in the 90s without cellphones because I was definitely going out to warehouse raves and clubs and all kinds of social stuff where we were meeting up (or getting lost at) events and parties where there was either enough people there or enough remoteness or both that in hindsight it seems like a miracle we even were able to find each other.
I do remember I had a basic numeric pager really early on, and payphones were still all over the place, but it's not like payphones were exactly common out in the deep desert or even in run down warehouse districts. But I do remember playing a lot of voicemail tag and using numeric codes for things like ETAs or meeting locations.
I do know a close friend of mine did get incredibly lost at one party that got busted and dispersed or something because he took a cab to the location or otherwise dropped off, and he ended up having to walk from South East LA's warehouse district to Hollywood wearing flannel PJs and bunny slippers because by the time he got there everyone was gone and there weren't really any payphones, and I don't think he had a pager or anything. And this might have been before I or others had a pager.
And if I'm recalling this story he basically had to stay up all night wandering around in PJs and slippers until the morning when it was late/early enough to call his mom collect for a pickup.
I know one of the ways we stayed in touch back then was via BBSes and dialup, but for most people this meant going to someone's house that had a desktop and everyone would take turns logging into their BBS account looking for offline messages to figure out where the party was at and what people were doing.
I personally had a portable computer like one of those old school Radio Shack TRS-80 model 202s with a built in modem that was basically useless except as a portable text/dialup terminal., but I was like the only person in my friend group that had anything like it and I didn't carry it around all the time because it was the size of a large phone book, and while I would take it to school or general hanging out with friends I definitely wasn't carrying it to raves or parties.
Anyway I think back to these very early days and I'm absolutely baffled about how we managed to stay in touch and meet up while out and about. I know we often had to wait around for people and we'd just pick some likely Denny's or coffee house or something and wait for people to show up. I also think we were generally more punctual and reliable about meeting at points in time and space because we had no way to just call or text and communicate where we were.
Tangentially in the 80s I remember going out for all day unsupervised bike rides equipped with little more than a single dime to be able to call home, and if I didn't use it I'd have to return it. It was just enough to make a single phone call and not quite enough to buy any candy worth getting into trouble over. And if I used that dime there better be blood or injuries involved and not something silly like a flat tire or being too tired to ride home.
posted by loquacious at 2:22 PM on February 11, 2023 [13 favorites]
I honestly don't remember how I even did things with friends in the 90s without cellphones because I was definitely going out to warehouse raves and clubs and all kinds of social stuff where we were meeting up (or getting lost at) events and parties where there was either enough people there or enough remoteness or both that in hindsight it seems like a miracle we even were able to find each other.
I do remember I had a basic numeric pager really early on, and payphones were still all over the place, but it's not like payphones were exactly common out in the deep desert or even in run down warehouse districts. But I do remember playing a lot of voicemail tag and using numeric codes for things like ETAs or meeting locations.
I do know a close friend of mine did get incredibly lost at one party that got busted and dispersed or something because he took a cab to the location or otherwise dropped off, and he ended up having to walk from South East LA's warehouse district to Hollywood wearing flannel PJs and bunny slippers because by the time he got there everyone was gone and there weren't really any payphones, and I don't think he had a pager or anything. And this might have been before I or others had a pager.
And if I'm recalling this story he basically had to stay up all night wandering around in PJs and slippers until the morning when it was late/early enough to call his mom collect for a pickup.
I know one of the ways we stayed in touch back then was via BBSes and dialup, but for most people this meant going to someone's house that had a desktop and everyone would take turns logging into their BBS account looking for offline messages to figure out where the party was at and what people were doing.
I personally had a portable computer like one of those old school Radio Shack TRS-80 model 202s with a built in modem that was basically useless except as a portable text/dialup terminal., but I was like the only person in my friend group that had anything like it and I didn't carry it around all the time because it was the size of a large phone book, and while I would take it to school or general hanging out with friends I definitely wasn't carrying it to raves or parties.
Anyway I think back to these very early days and I'm absolutely baffled about how we managed to stay in touch and meet up while out and about. I know we often had to wait around for people and we'd just pick some likely Denny's or coffee house or something and wait for people to show up. I also think we were generally more punctual and reliable about meeting at points in time and space because we had no way to just call or text and communicate where we were.
Tangentially in the 80s I remember going out for all day unsupervised bike rides equipped with little more than a single dime to be able to call home, and if I didn't use it I'd have to return it. It was just enough to make a single phone call and not quite enough to buy any candy worth getting into trouble over. And if I used that dime there better be blood or injuries involved and not something silly like a flat tire or being too tired to ride home.
posted by loquacious at 2:22 PM on February 11, 2023 [13 favorites]
Where I work, we did some testing and found that using QR codes for interacting with the public worked.....about 75% of the time for our target users. That remaining 25% of people includes a lot of people with modern phones who theoretically had the tech to scan the code, but in real life the process wasn't working for them.
My own phone won't scan a QR code unless you have it in the regular "photo" mode. If the camera got set to something else like "portrait" or "food" and is remembering that setting, no QR for you. I know about this annoyance and can swipe around it, but I can see where other people would miss it.
Anyway, restaurants with QR codes aren't embracing the future, they're just too cheap to print a menu.
posted by gimonca at 2:23 PM on February 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
My own phone won't scan a QR code unless you have it in the regular "photo" mode. If the camera got set to something else like "portrait" or "food" and is remembering that setting, no QR for you. I know about this annoyance and can swipe around it, but I can see where other people would miss it.
Anyway, restaurants with QR codes aren't embracing the future, they're just too cheap to print a menu.
posted by gimonca at 2:23 PM on February 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
I’m surprised that this discussion hasn’t gotten more into the attention/personal data economy.
I am constantly looking at my phone, and I recently learned about widgets (which might just be an iphone thing) which means I have duolingo and kindle apps as these big honkin icons and everything else that's fun buried in a folder. So I pretty much use my phone now for reading books, learning french, texting, and taking pictures (occasionally I also use it as a phone and to play one stupid match-3 game I like).
About a year ago, maybe, I removed all my social media apps and that had a similar salutary effect, but over time somehow my attention got degraded and I was using the phone mostly for games.
I have to do something like this to change my phone/browser ecosystem perioidcally to force myself to be more mindful of where my attention is going. I understand, like, capitalism, I'm not new, but it still irritates me.
posted by joannemerriam at 2:23 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am constantly looking at my phone, and I recently learned about widgets (which might just be an iphone thing) which means I have duolingo and kindle apps as these big honkin icons and everything else that's fun buried in a folder. So I pretty much use my phone now for reading books, learning french, texting, and taking pictures (occasionally I also use it as a phone and to play one stupid match-3 game I like).
About a year ago, maybe, I removed all my social media apps and that had a similar salutary effect, but over time somehow my attention got degraded and I was using the phone mostly for games.
I have to do something like this to change my phone/browser ecosystem perioidcally to force myself to be more mindful of where my attention is going. I understand, like, capitalism, I'm not new, but it still irritates me.
posted by joannemerriam at 2:23 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Also, if anyone wants less advertising on their phone:
You can get uBlock Origins for Firefox Mobile now, and has been that way for some time. And, obviously, don't install a bunch of random apps without thoroughly vetting them first. Most of the games and random apps are total garbage these days and just trojan horses for adware.
It's lame but you can do almost everything you need to do besides 2FA security apps in Firefox Mobile and force sites to use desktop mode if you prefer desktop pages instead of limited mobile web versions.
posted by loquacious at 2:28 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
You can get uBlock Origins for Firefox Mobile now, and has been that way for some time. And, obviously, don't install a bunch of random apps without thoroughly vetting them first. Most of the games and random apps are total garbage these days and just trojan horses for adware.
It's lame but you can do almost everything you need to do besides 2FA security apps in Firefox Mobile and force sites to use desktop mode if you prefer desktop pages instead of limited mobile web versions.
posted by loquacious at 2:28 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I went to Australia last year; I was struck by the ETA process for getting a short-term entry visa and how cellphone-dependent it is. There may be alternatives, but it really looks like there's a two-tier system where non-cellphone-users may face a lot of extra hurdles.
The process was really slick, it worked for me like a charm, but it might be a case of "it's great when it works". I worry about people who might have trouble with it. The tech dependency seems brittle.
posted by gimonca at 2:31 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
The process was really slick, it worked for me like a charm, but it might be a case of "it's great when it works". I worry about people who might have trouble with it. The tech dependency seems brittle.
posted by gimonca at 2:31 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
What I truly love, though, are visiting friends who use their phone apps to navigate Southern California traffic. Yes, the "shortest" route that saves you 5 minutes certainly looks enticing...but Google doesn't live here, and it is leading you astray!
did my mother-in-law enter the chat
posted by Kitteh at 2:45 PM on February 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
did my mother-in-law enter the chat
posted by Kitteh at 2:45 PM on February 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
Google doesn't live here, and it is leading you astray!
Go ahead and take Baxter. It'll be ok! Trust us.
posted by tclark at 2:56 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Go ahead and take Baxter. It'll be ok! Trust us.
posted by tclark at 2:56 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I could probably write a book on this particular topic. Because though I have owned a cellphone for getting on two decades now, I do sorta kinda resemble "the last man without a cellphone". That is, I carry mine with me as little as possible and when at home, often as not, I turn it off. And no, I don't live with someone who I rely on for such stuff.
I could offer a lot of "why" in this regard, but for the moment, would prefer a more macro observation. Simply put, I'm coming to think that the ubiquity of the so-called smart phone is proof positive that human progress has got very little to do with intelligence. Given all the possible ways in which we (as a culture, a species, whatever) could have evolved toward integrating communication devices into the heart of our day-to-day activities, we opted for the fucking smart phone which, to operate properly*, requires both our eyes and both our hands.
We are a foolish primate. One can only hope that there's a benevolent god (or whatever) watching out for us, making sure we don't step in front of a bus whilst crossing the street while focused on making sure nobody has tried to contact us in the last twenty-five seconds.
* certainly for all activities outside of actual talking; ie: texting, all interwebs suff.
posted by philip-random at 3:12 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I could offer a lot of "why" in this regard, but for the moment, would prefer a more macro observation. Simply put, I'm coming to think that the ubiquity of the so-called smart phone is proof positive that human progress has got very little to do with intelligence. Given all the possible ways in which we (as a culture, a species, whatever) could have evolved toward integrating communication devices into the heart of our day-to-day activities, we opted for the fucking smart phone which, to operate properly*, requires both our eyes and both our hands.
We are a foolish primate. One can only hope that there's a benevolent god (or whatever) watching out for us, making sure we don't step in front of a bus whilst crossing the street while focused on making sure nobody has tried to contact us in the last twenty-five seconds.
* certainly for all activities outside of actual talking; ie: texting, all interwebs suff.
posted by philip-random at 3:12 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Anyway, restaurants with QR codes aren't embracing the future, they're just too cheap to print a menu.
Strong disagree with this. I was working in a restaurant during the pandemic and we were wasting tons of money and time printing menus, especially since supply chains were so disrupted that our menus had to change so often.
We were also wasting tons of paper handing out one-time use laser copy prints, and either we'd order too few menus to last until the next menu change or print way too many and they'd end up becoming trash.
And laminated sheets or books were even more expensive and wasteful even though you could sanitize them and reuse them because menu items or entire menus were changing so often.
Sometimes we'd print them in house instead of the local copy/print center but inkjets take way too long, cost way too much per page and then they bleed everywhere if you get a drop of water on them and the whole thing was a huge hassle.
Sure, it would have been nice if we had our own laser printer but restaurant profit margins suck and it's hard to compete with the local print shop on total per-page costs when they have bulk toner and high speed digital printers. Like for the price of a decent laser printer I can basically print excess menus every week for several years and still not come anywhere near the TCO of a laser printer.
And some of the best restaurants I know in the area mostly do QR code and web/online menus because you can change things so much easier. I personally enjoy being able to browse the menu long before arriving at the restaurant or even days before the night out so I can have an idea of what I want long before I'm seated.
Japan has been doing QR codes or tablets for years before the pandemic. Even at some nicer places you don't even have a dedicated waiter, you go buy a ticket from a vending machine to order entrees and pre-pay or you're presented with a ticket with a QR code or bar code on it and scan that to pay for your total tab at a kiosk.
I'm all for QR codes or online menus. It doesn't even have to be a QR code link and URL, just have a proper basic website via Square or Qix or Duda or some other SaaS web host that makes it easy for staff to make changes and keep it updated. Then people can browse it before they're even seated.
As both a patron and someone who has worked in the industry having that kind of tech become more ubiquitous has been really good and a lot less stress and dealing with having to tell everyone what we don't have today or what's changed.
Keep in mind that at most indie restaurants even in the best of times it's all hands on deck. I took on the techy side of things because it's easy for me and I'm good at it, but I'm also in the kitchen doing prep, cooking and firing on the line or in the dish pit washing dirty dishes. I had about 15 free seconds to update a menu.
Like there was a lot of times I was making these menu edits live from inside the kitchen as my lead or teammate is identifying what we have to 86 from the menu because the stuff we needed for those items didn't come in on the truck that morning and I'm flipping my lid back and forth between doing prep work or poking at my computer or phone while walking.
I definitely don't have time to just sit there and tweak my vector print menu layouts and move text around for 15-60 minutes so it prints right and doesn't look like ass when I can just edit the online menu and let the SaaS CMS web system handle the "publishing" and text layout flow for me so it automatically plays nice on everyone's browser.
Yeah, some people might not like this lack of personal attention but the whole restaurant industry lost a ton of staff to people actually dying during the pandemic or getting too sick to work or just finding other work in general - and having to run around and just deal with all of the extra work sanitizing things, enforcing mask policies with badly behaved customers and other pandemic era stresses during all of that suuuuuucked so much that having QR code menus definitely isn't "too cheap to print a menu" but more like "Hello this boat called the Titanic is fucking sinking right now as we speak may I take your order or would you like to move your deck chairs around a little more, first?"
Anyway, yeah, no, it's not about being too cheap. There's a lot more than that going on.
It's more about the endless extra effort involved, especially if you're doing a local/fresh menu during a pandemic and you're short on labor. It's way faster if I just update the menu online, and since the URL and QR codes stay the same I don't have to run to the print shop or babysit a balky, expensive inkjet printer.
posted by loquacious at 3:22 PM on February 11, 2023 [28 favorites]
Strong disagree with this. I was working in a restaurant during the pandemic and we were wasting tons of money and time printing menus, especially since supply chains were so disrupted that our menus had to change so often.
We were also wasting tons of paper handing out one-time use laser copy prints, and either we'd order too few menus to last until the next menu change or print way too many and they'd end up becoming trash.
And laminated sheets or books were even more expensive and wasteful even though you could sanitize them and reuse them because menu items or entire menus were changing so often.
Sometimes we'd print them in house instead of the local copy/print center but inkjets take way too long, cost way too much per page and then they bleed everywhere if you get a drop of water on them and the whole thing was a huge hassle.
Sure, it would have been nice if we had our own laser printer but restaurant profit margins suck and it's hard to compete with the local print shop on total per-page costs when they have bulk toner and high speed digital printers. Like for the price of a decent laser printer I can basically print excess menus every week for several years and still not come anywhere near the TCO of a laser printer.
And some of the best restaurants I know in the area mostly do QR code and web/online menus because you can change things so much easier. I personally enjoy being able to browse the menu long before arriving at the restaurant or even days before the night out so I can have an idea of what I want long before I'm seated.
Japan has been doing QR codes or tablets for years before the pandemic. Even at some nicer places you don't even have a dedicated waiter, you go buy a ticket from a vending machine to order entrees and pre-pay or you're presented with a ticket with a QR code or bar code on it and scan that to pay for your total tab at a kiosk.
I'm all for QR codes or online menus. It doesn't even have to be a QR code link and URL, just have a proper basic website via Square or Qix or Duda or some other SaaS web host that makes it easy for staff to make changes and keep it updated. Then people can browse it before they're even seated.
As both a patron and someone who has worked in the industry having that kind of tech become more ubiquitous has been really good and a lot less stress and dealing with having to tell everyone what we don't have today or what's changed.
Keep in mind that at most indie restaurants even in the best of times it's all hands on deck. I took on the techy side of things because it's easy for me and I'm good at it, but I'm also in the kitchen doing prep, cooking and firing on the line or in the dish pit washing dirty dishes. I had about 15 free seconds to update a menu.
Like there was a lot of times I was making these menu edits live from inside the kitchen as my lead or teammate is identifying what we have to 86 from the menu because the stuff we needed for those items didn't come in on the truck that morning and I'm flipping my lid back and forth between doing prep work or poking at my computer or phone while walking.
I definitely don't have time to just sit there and tweak my vector print menu layouts and move text around for 15-60 minutes so it prints right and doesn't look like ass when I can just edit the online menu and let the SaaS CMS web system handle the "publishing" and text layout flow for me so it automatically plays nice on everyone's browser.
Yeah, some people might not like this lack of personal attention but the whole restaurant industry lost a ton of staff to people actually dying during the pandemic or getting too sick to work or just finding other work in general - and having to run around and just deal with all of the extra work sanitizing things, enforcing mask policies with badly behaved customers and other pandemic era stresses during all of that suuuuuucked so much that having QR code menus definitely isn't "too cheap to print a menu" but more like "Hello this boat called the Titanic is fucking sinking right now as we speak may I take your order or would you like to move your deck chairs around a little more, first?"
Anyway, yeah, no, it's not about being too cheap. There's a lot more than that going on.
It's more about the endless extra effort involved, especially if you're doing a local/fresh menu during a pandemic and you're short on labor. It's way faster if I just update the menu online, and since the URL and QR codes stay the same I don't have to run to the print shop or babysit a balky, expensive inkjet printer.
posted by loquacious at 3:22 PM on February 11, 2023 [28 favorites]
I only had an ancient Nokia bar phone that I rarely bothered to turn on, and often didn’t carry until last December. Calls and texts only. It finally got annoying enough to be without a smartphone that I broke down and bought an iPhone. Little things, like not being able to park because the only available parking lots required payment by app, 2-factor authentication, electronic ticketing, restaurants and bars with no %$#@&*%@ menu - just a code to scan, etc., finally wore me down.
Ah well, it was a good run while it lasted.
posted by fimbulvetr at 3:26 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ah well, it was a good run while it lasted.
posted by fimbulvetr at 3:26 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Has anyone tried the Light Phone?
It has the shape of a smart phone and the texting keyboard of a smartphone but limited features (no web browser and no social media apps.)
posted by CMcG at 3:32 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
It has the shape of a smart phone and the texting keyboard of a smartphone but limited features (no web browser and no social media apps.)
posted by CMcG at 3:32 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Imagine being all “I don’t need electricity” at the turn of last century, or “I don’t need tv” in the middle of last century. Sure, you can live without those things, but you’re not living well by the standards of the time. The smartphone is a tool for living life - ask an immigrant about their use of a smartphone - and if you only see the downside of having one, maybe that’s a you problem.
posted by The River Ivel at 3:44 PM on February 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 3:44 PM on February 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
And just to add, I was an early adopter for cellphones, having had a Motorola MicroTAC as my first phone. So I’ve had a cellphone for over 30 years now. But I never saw the point of bothering with a smartphone until there really was no choice without punishing myself by making everything more difficult and annoying.
And you know, it ends up I really like the iPhone I got.
posted by fimbulvetr at 3:47 PM on February 11, 2023
And you know, it ends up I really like the iPhone I got.
posted by fimbulvetr at 3:47 PM on February 11, 2023
Why would smart phones, smart assistants, butler drones, neurolink be optional for the "user"?
Its like asking prisoners if they want a cell with locked doors or slaves if they want chains.
now shut up and get back to work on the "turn earth into death and money" machine.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 3:57 PM on February 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
Its like asking prisoners if they want a cell with locked doors or slaves if they want chains.
now shut up and get back to work on the "turn earth into death and money" machine.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 3:57 PM on February 11, 2023 [9 favorites]
Regarding the 2FA question, we implemented it as mandatory for staff a few years ago, thanks to GDPR. We made sure there were options other than using a personal phone, because not all staff had them or were willing to use them, and they are common industry standards for business-grade 2FA.
The simplest and least secure is SMS or voice call; you can always set these to go to a landline - many will turn an SMS into a voice code automatically. e.g. you could use your office phone if you'll never need to access your work account away from your desk, or at home if you're a remote worker. (obviously no use if you need to access from both) They are vulnerable to interception and phishing though, so don't use for high security setups (Reddit got hacked a few years ago because they used SMS auth)
Another option is usually a USB FIDO u2f key, often called a 'security key' (example brands include thetis and yuibkey). These are a dirt cheap physical device that plugs into PC or laptop, and when prompted you press the button (or fingerprint) - this hardware token is signicantly more secure than SMS or one-time-password app as it can't be phished, and is basically the gold standard. If work won't buy a U2F key, you can buy one yourself cheaply enough. The downside is it's harder to make work with a smartphone, but in this case, that's not a drawback! If you do need to also authenticate stuff without a usb port, you can get a more costly one that can do it over NFC such as a yubikey.
Lastly, it's a bit more complicated, but you can use a 2FA one-time-password app that also works on a PC/laptop, such as Authy. This works exactly like OTP apps like microsoft/google authenticator, but can run on multiple platforms, and syncronise between them and also be backed up. This functionality is also starting to be included in password manager software. This isn't super super secure, because malware can directly intercept your login and the 2FA from the same device, but it's substantially lower risk than password alone, and no worse than SMS auth.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 4:01 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
The simplest and least secure is SMS or voice call; you can always set these to go to a landline - many will turn an SMS into a voice code automatically. e.g. you could use your office phone if you'll never need to access your work account away from your desk, or at home if you're a remote worker. (obviously no use if you need to access from both) They are vulnerable to interception and phishing though, so don't use for high security setups (Reddit got hacked a few years ago because they used SMS auth)
Another option is usually a USB FIDO u2f key, often called a 'security key' (example brands include thetis and yuibkey). These are a dirt cheap physical device that plugs into PC or laptop, and when prompted you press the button (or fingerprint) - this hardware token is signicantly more secure than SMS or one-time-password app as it can't be phished, and is basically the gold standard. If work won't buy a U2F key, you can buy one yourself cheaply enough. The downside is it's harder to make work with a smartphone, but in this case, that's not a drawback! If you do need to also authenticate stuff without a usb port, you can get a more costly one that can do it over NFC such as a yubikey.
Lastly, it's a bit more complicated, but you can use a 2FA one-time-password app that also works on a PC/laptop, such as Authy. This works exactly like OTP apps like microsoft/google authenticator, but can run on multiple platforms, and syncronise between them and also be backed up. This functionality is also starting to be included in password manager software. This isn't super super secure, because malware can directly intercept your login and the 2FA from the same device, but it's substantially lower risk than password alone, and no worse than SMS auth.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 4:01 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Sometimes I long to go back to a dumbphone. Access to lyft/uber is the killer thing for me though, so I'm stuck with a smartphone until I don't need that anymore. If I ever get a car, catch me going around with one of these maybe.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 4:03 PM on February 11, 2023
posted by vibratory manner of working at 4:03 PM on February 11, 2023
This bit from TFA caught my eye:
I don’t get lost. People are losing the capacity to navigate. I see people using their GPS phones to walk around the city. The streets are numbered!
Except... a few times lately, when navigating to someone's house, I've noticed that visible house numbers either aren't there or are very tiny and hard to see, especially if it's at night and there aren't nearby streetlights. Same for businesses.
As for my own cellphone/smartphone habit, I first got one when I was going through a divorce and didn't want to come home to my small studio apartment and not see a message light blinking on the answering machine, so I got a StarTAC instead. It was a fun little gadget to distract me from my problems. Then I got some candybar phone that I didn't like, then a Palm Treo that was fun for a while but one day simply stopped syncing (this was around the time that Palm really started slipping gears, I think), and I finally gave up and got an iPhone. I actually did get a cheap, burner-type flip phone after that--I did a month of work release after my second DUI and wanted a basically disposable phone to take to the pokey with me; this was when Breaking Bad was still on and a burner seemed appropriate--and I still have it and have occasionally thought of using it as a back-up, but never really had to, and I'm not sure that I can still buy minutes for it.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:21 PM on February 11, 2023
I don’t get lost. People are losing the capacity to navigate. I see people using their GPS phones to walk around the city. The streets are numbered!
Except... a few times lately, when navigating to someone's house, I've noticed that visible house numbers either aren't there or are very tiny and hard to see, especially if it's at night and there aren't nearby streetlights. Same for businesses.
As for my own cellphone/smartphone habit, I first got one when I was going through a divorce and didn't want to come home to my small studio apartment and not see a message light blinking on the answering machine, so I got a StarTAC instead. It was a fun little gadget to distract me from my problems. Then I got some candybar phone that I didn't like, then a Palm Treo that was fun for a while but one day simply stopped syncing (this was around the time that Palm really started slipping gears, I think), and I finally gave up and got an iPhone. I actually did get a cheap, burner-type flip phone after that--I did a month of work release after my second DUI and wanted a basically disposable phone to take to the pokey with me; this was when Breaking Bad was still on and a burner seemed appropriate--and I still have it and have occasionally thought of using it as a back-up, but never really had to, and I'm not sure that I can still buy minutes for it.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:21 PM on February 11, 2023
Oh, forgot something about security keys. There are 2 main standards; U2F allows a hardware token to e.g. replace an OTP app as the 2nd factor. There's a newer standard too, FIDO2 that allows you to e.g. use a key for windows login itself, as a 'windows hello' option. (This requires azure or hybrid for business domain PCs, so will not work for all setups)
The purpose of FIDO2 is going completely passwordless, and websites and browsers are starting to support FIDO2 throughout, so you can literally plug in a key (or use a browser encrypted store) and it provides authentication without needing to remember a bunch of passwords - it's the big push for greater security and in theory will replace 2FA, but it's early days yet! So you may need to pick a key that does U2F or FIDO2, depending upon your use case, but you can also get keys that support both; the yubikey 5 series also does.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 4:29 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
The purpose of FIDO2 is going completely passwordless, and websites and browsers are starting to support FIDO2 throughout, so you can literally plug in a key (or use a browser encrypted store) and it provides authentication without needing to remember a bunch of passwords - it's the big push for greater security and in theory will replace 2FA, but it's early days yet! So you may need to pick a key that does U2F or FIDO2, depending upon your use case, but you can also get keys that support both; the yubikey 5 series also does.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 4:29 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Personally, I was super happy to get a cell phone back in 1998. I was also super happy for smartphones since it meant I could stop carrying a PDA and a mess of cables to hook it up to my phone just in case I needed to fix something at work when I was traveling. The PDA I carried because it replaced my entire laptop bag with a device I could easily fit in my pants pocket, even with the serial(!) card and the cable for my phone.
I don't really mind having a pocket computer for myself, I don't really spend any more time on the Internet than I did when I was using a desktop or laptop, it's just more easily portable. I do occasionally get waylaid by the attention sucking, but it's pretty rare. However, I see other people in my life who can't seem to put the damn thing and be present and I just feel sad for them.
posted by wierdo at 4:45 PM on February 11, 2023
I don't really mind having a pocket computer for myself, I don't really spend any more time on the Internet than I did when I was using a desktop or laptop, it's just more easily portable. I do occasionally get waylaid by the attention sucking, but it's pretty rare. However, I see other people in my life who can't seem to put the damn thing and be present and I just feel sad for them.
posted by wierdo at 4:45 PM on February 11, 2023
Also, T9 was way better. It was perfectly possible to be practiced enough to send text messages without even looking at the phone. Hardware keyboards were OK, but not as good for that particular purpose. On screen keyboards, even with swipe and decent contextual recognition require much more attention to make sure you're getting the words you want out of it.
Composing a message with T9 took less attention than adjusting the radio in a car. The determinism made it super easy to develop muscle memory for banging out short messages. As good as voice recognition has gotten of late, it's still requires double checking the message. I still think we reached peak smartphone with Nokia's S60v3 once they added in the Webkit-based browser. Make one with modern hardware and I'd buy it over this Android/iOS shit any day.
posted by wierdo at 4:58 PM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Composing a message with T9 took less attention than adjusting the radio in a car. The determinism made it super easy to develop muscle memory for banging out short messages. As good as voice recognition has gotten of late, it's still requires double checking the message. I still think we reached peak smartphone with Nokia's S60v3 once they added in the Webkit-based browser. Make one with modern hardware and I'd buy it over this Android/iOS shit any day.
posted by wierdo at 4:58 PM on February 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Imagine being all “I don’t need electricity” at the turn of last century, or “I don’t need tv” in the middle of last century. Sure, you can live without those things, but you’re not living well by the standards of the time.
I really don’t think electricity and television are the same at all. If you were like 20 in 1955 and never bought a TV, what were you really missing out on? Whereas no electricity means a myriad of things, most of them annoying and/or bad.
posted by rhymedirective at 5:10 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I really don’t think electricity and television are the same at all. If you were like 20 in 1955 and never bought a TV, what were you really missing out on? Whereas no electricity means a myriad of things, most of them annoying and/or bad.
posted by rhymedirective at 5:10 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Look, I get it, you're on the run from the FBI, and a cell phone would track you, burner phone makes sense. All your buddies down at Proud Boy HQ make fun of you when you pull out your Samsung Galaxy, totally dude, stick with that trac phone. Sure it sucks that the kidySex dating app won't work on your trac phone but that's why you got Matty G on speed dial. Own the libs my brother!
Me, I like my iphone, it syncs with my computer and my watch, and yes I am that guy on the bus staring at my phone. It's got the libby library app and I like to read. Sure, I know I look like a dweeb, and should be reading paper or an ebook reader , I mean I work in a library for gods sake! Still, I got the Iphone 13 mini so It's smaller than my last 2 iphones (6s & 8), which makes it smaller than most smart phones out there. The only phones I like more are that new foldy Samsung one that folds top to bottom, or the Motorola Razr, which also folds. I want a phone that fits in my pocket, because I'm fucking OLD, and I don't want to carry around the latest giant screen monster that I need to put in a bag or something. If I want a bigger screen I've got a tablet or my computer.
posted by evilDoug at 5:11 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Me, I like my iphone, it syncs with my computer and my watch, and yes I am that guy on the bus staring at my phone. It's got the libby library app and I like to read. Sure, I know I look like a dweeb, and should be reading paper or an ebook reader , I mean I work in a library for gods sake! Still, I got the Iphone 13 mini so It's smaller than my last 2 iphones (6s & 8), which makes it smaller than most smart phones out there. The only phones I like more are that new foldy Samsung one that folds top to bottom, or the Motorola Razr, which also folds. I want a phone that fits in my pocket, because I'm fucking OLD, and I don't want to carry around the latest giant screen monster that I need to put in a bag or something. If I want a bigger screen I've got a tablet or my computer.
posted by evilDoug at 5:11 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I find people, mostly over about 25, are often really weird about cell phones. Just read the posts in this thread. I like having a smart phone. They're remarkable pieces of technology that add lots of pleasure and convenience to my life. But I guess I'm a bit weird in that I've never had any problem of phone/app addiction. I don't really do social media other than metafilter and a few topical forums. If shit gets stupid, I have no problem quitting/blocking communities. Doom scrolling is something I learned about fairly recently, and utterly baffles me. I just can't fathom why someone would torture themselves that way.
To me, this little communicator in my pocket is still largely a novelty, even after having a cell phone of one type or another for over 20 years now. When I was a kid, the idea that virtually everyone would be carrying a small wireless phone (let alone fully networked computer) in their pockets just about all the time was pure Jetsons stuff. If I went back in time and told everyone, they wouldn't believe it. Even less when I told them we'd be using phones to communicate not so much with calls, but by sending little notes, like a bunch of 7th graders circa 1975.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:36 PM on February 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
To me, this little communicator in my pocket is still largely a novelty, even after having a cell phone of one type or another for over 20 years now. When I was a kid, the idea that virtually everyone would be carrying a small wireless phone (let alone fully networked computer) in their pockets just about all the time was pure Jetsons stuff. If I went back in time and told everyone, they wouldn't believe it. Even less when I told them we'd be using phones to communicate not so much with calls, but by sending little notes, like a bunch of 7th graders circa 1975.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:36 PM on February 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
"I like my iPhone, but whatever, I mean you do you, but if you're not like me you're either a criminal, a Nazi or a pedo"
posted by tigrrrlily at 5:47 PM on February 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by tigrrrlily at 5:47 PM on February 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
I'm a geezer, dropped the landline for mobiles almost 20 years ago. I don't use tiktok, seldom watch videos on my phone. I don't love texting. I love GPS because I go to lots of different places. I love having a bunch of books and daily papers on a device in my pocket. A few years ago, I had a nasty fall, didn't have my phone in my pocket. Got the wind knocked out of me, probably broke my tailbone, which really hurts. Now I carry my phone as much as possible because I know so many people who have broken a hip in some minor fall or fractured an arm when they slipped on the ice. Knowing I can holler at Siri to get help means I feel more confident hiking with the dog, taking road trips, etc.
And the camera. I take pictures of plants and can ID them, take pictures of equipment so I can get the right part at the store, take a picture of where I parked.
I hate that messaging is fragmented. Some people use Facebook to message me. I won't install it on my phone because it too invasive, so that's a pain. Some people text, some email. Too many places to check all the time. If I have to install an app to shop, Nope. Or if I do install some app because I want to do a task, I delete it as soon as possible.
I hate that employers and friends and family think that because they can text me, I have an obligation to respond to non-urgent contact immediately. It's okay for life to happen not so fast. Most stuff isn't urgent though when there's an emergency, mobile phones are lifesavers.
No phones at the table? I have to use an app to adjust my hearing aids so the phone is staying.
If you don't want to carry a mobile phone, that's none of my business. But it's not a form of virtue, it's just a personal choice.
posted by theora55 at 5:55 PM on February 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
And the camera. I take pictures of plants and can ID them, take pictures of equipment so I can get the right part at the store, take a picture of where I parked.
I hate that messaging is fragmented. Some people use Facebook to message me. I won't install it on my phone because it too invasive, so that's a pain. Some people text, some email. Too many places to check all the time. If I have to install an app to shop, Nope. Or if I do install some app because I want to do a task, I delete it as soon as possible.
I hate that employers and friends and family think that because they can text me, I have an obligation to respond to non-urgent contact immediately. It's okay for life to happen not so fast. Most stuff isn't urgent though when there's an emergency, mobile phones are lifesavers.
No phones at the table? I have to use an app to adjust my hearing aids so the phone is staying.
If you don't want to carry a mobile phone, that's none of my business. But it's not a form of virtue, it's just a personal choice.
posted by theora55 at 5:55 PM on February 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
employers and friends and family think that because they can text me, I have an obligation to respond to non-urgent contact immediately
This is false. There is no obligation. ASK ME HOW I KNOW.
Just because you believe something is real doesn't mean it is. Your anxiety is not a cell phone feature.
Set boundaries, turn off your notifications, and live your life.
(this comment is directed broadly at everyone who feels like this, theora just made an easy snippet)
posted by phunniemee at 6:09 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is false. There is no obligation. ASK ME HOW I KNOW.
Just because you believe something is real doesn't mean it is. Your anxiety is not a cell phone feature.
Set boundaries, turn off your notifications, and live your life.
(this comment is directed broadly at everyone who feels like this, theora just made an easy snippet)
posted by phunniemee at 6:09 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Cell phones are very cool. It's a little computer you can carry in your pocket, a camera, and a videophone. It's half the background technology we were shown in sixties SF, all in one package.
I don't have one.
I'm not a luddite - I program computers for a living, and I love technology.
But cell phones are a step I don't want to take. They're a big rock thrown into a pond, a thing we didn't anticipate or have time to adapt laws and manners and customs to. I've seen friendships fall apart because one person didn't have a phone. I know people who got them to avoid this. I do not think this is good.
A day doesn't go by at my house without someone losing their headphones, cable, charger, or phone.
No social event is unmarred by people pretending to listen while they're on their phone. No drive is safe because people text and steer. Discourse is in many forums reduced to drivel by the need to condense every thought into 256 characters and type with your thumbs. Creative work which can be done on paper or on a computer is abandoned for endless texting. You can be tracked anywhere, and you are. People are coming to believe that privacy is unimportant compared to the need to seek fulfillment in endless volleys of texts.
Maybe I'm wrong and it's all worth it.
Maybe I'm the control group in a world-spanning social experiment there's no backing away from.
I don't care. I love the internet and the various communication systems, but I think they edge us toward a certain uniformity of thought and opinion. I can escape from that, briefly.
People on here have said that people rely on spouses to do the things you can't do without a cell. I don't know what they are. My wife texts people in Costco to find out what aisle they're in. I can walk around. I don't drop and break a phone, fight with my provider, or pay a monthly bill. I don't agonize about battery time or how old my operating system is. I don't discuss Apple's walled garden or which messaging service isn't enlightened enough.
I don't have to admit that I'm carrying an artifact made in a dictatorship with slave labor.
I'm not trying to be difficult or to signal virtue. I don't see any need for what is basically a convenience, and on with an inescapable downside. I lived before they were available, and they haven't made life staggeringly better. As far as I can see they've made people twitchy and neurotic.
Someone here equates not having one with wanting to spread diseases in an office. I have no idea what they could possibly be talking about, but it seems as though it was important enough to make a number of people very angry. I'm sorry if the refusal of a few people to carry a specific electronic device is that upsetting. I think that, like other social media, cell phones insulate people from their instinctive reluctance to be aggressive and rude. That's something else I don't like. Any technology which makes people hate those not exactly like them seems bad to me. If the difference is as small as not carrying a phone, I'm pretty sure I'm justified in that opinion.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 6:14 PM on February 11, 2023 [18 favorites]
I don't have one.
I'm not a luddite - I program computers for a living, and I love technology.
But cell phones are a step I don't want to take. They're a big rock thrown into a pond, a thing we didn't anticipate or have time to adapt laws and manners and customs to. I've seen friendships fall apart because one person didn't have a phone. I know people who got them to avoid this. I do not think this is good.
A day doesn't go by at my house without someone losing their headphones, cable, charger, or phone.
No social event is unmarred by people pretending to listen while they're on their phone. No drive is safe because people text and steer. Discourse is in many forums reduced to drivel by the need to condense every thought into 256 characters and type with your thumbs. Creative work which can be done on paper or on a computer is abandoned for endless texting. You can be tracked anywhere, and you are. People are coming to believe that privacy is unimportant compared to the need to seek fulfillment in endless volleys of texts.
Maybe I'm wrong and it's all worth it.
Maybe I'm the control group in a world-spanning social experiment there's no backing away from.
I don't care. I love the internet and the various communication systems, but I think they edge us toward a certain uniformity of thought and opinion. I can escape from that, briefly.
People on here have said that people rely on spouses to do the things you can't do without a cell. I don't know what they are. My wife texts people in Costco to find out what aisle they're in. I can walk around. I don't drop and break a phone, fight with my provider, or pay a monthly bill. I don't agonize about battery time or how old my operating system is. I don't discuss Apple's walled garden or which messaging service isn't enlightened enough.
I don't have to admit that I'm carrying an artifact made in a dictatorship with slave labor.
I'm not trying to be difficult or to signal virtue. I don't see any need for what is basically a convenience, and on with an inescapable downside. I lived before they were available, and they haven't made life staggeringly better. As far as I can see they've made people twitchy and neurotic.
Someone here equates not having one with wanting to spread diseases in an office. I have no idea what they could possibly be talking about, but it seems as though it was important enough to make a number of people very angry. I'm sorry if the refusal of a few people to carry a specific electronic device is that upsetting. I think that, like other social media, cell phones insulate people from their instinctive reluctance to be aggressive and rude. That's something else I don't like. Any technology which makes people hate those not exactly like them seems bad to me. If the difference is as small as not carrying a phone, I'm pretty sure I'm justified in that opinion.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 6:14 PM on February 11, 2023 [18 favorites]
I don't have a cell phone. I'm on my desktop computer a lot. I game, I look up information. I have long text conversations with people. I might use a language app, or use a drawing program, or read web comics. I use a TV for a monitor, because that makes it easy to see, and I type a LOT of text - as anyone who has ever read any of my replies to posts here will know - so I like to use a full sized keyboard. But I could use a cell phone if I had one. It's not that I can't see small stuff, it's just that I prefer to look at big stuff.
But I need a cell phone because of 2fa. That's the only reason I need one. I could also use one about once a week when I am out there somewhere and want to take a cab home, and need to call one somehow. But right now it's easy enough to work around not having a cell phone, because either there is a taxi stand, or I can ask the service desk at the store, where I just bought too much to carry home, to call one for me. Of course it would be politer to just call from a cell phone and not bother them at the service desk.
But other than that.... I can't think of anything I would use one for. I certainly wouldn't call or text anyone with it, nor expect to get any in-coming calls. I've never had the urge to look something up while I was out doing errands or walking, except for stuff I can't find on the internet, such as which Georgette Heyer novels I am still trying to add to my collection. I carry a notebook for stuff like that. If I want to look stuff up, I stay home.
Now a couple of the restaurants I stop at do want you to pre-order if you are doing take out, but probably less than a quarter of their other customers are doing that. I have a camera. I prefer not to read on the bus. I pay my bills on line and do some banking, but I certainly wouldn't do that while I was out and about. I do sometimes write in a notebook while I am on the roads - but I am pretty sure the notebook and pen are a better choice for writing out my French verb conjugations while I am out an about, then trying to type them out on a cell phone.
So my question is what on earth would I use it for? I'm genuinely baffled. I'm going to get one- resentfully - just in order to deal with 2fa. Is there anything else it would be useful for? I'd really like to figure something out, because it seems rather a waste of money to get one just to make four phone calls a month, and one or two 2fa's. If the thing costs me $30 per month that's going to add up to $5 per phone call.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:16 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
But I need a cell phone because of 2fa. That's the only reason I need one. I could also use one about once a week when I am out there somewhere and want to take a cab home, and need to call one somehow. But right now it's easy enough to work around not having a cell phone, because either there is a taxi stand, or I can ask the service desk at the store, where I just bought too much to carry home, to call one for me. Of course it would be politer to just call from a cell phone and not bother them at the service desk.
But other than that.... I can't think of anything I would use one for. I certainly wouldn't call or text anyone with it, nor expect to get any in-coming calls. I've never had the urge to look something up while I was out doing errands or walking, except for stuff I can't find on the internet, such as which Georgette Heyer novels I am still trying to add to my collection. I carry a notebook for stuff like that. If I want to look stuff up, I stay home.
Now a couple of the restaurants I stop at do want you to pre-order if you are doing take out, but probably less than a quarter of their other customers are doing that. I have a camera. I prefer not to read on the bus. I pay my bills on line and do some banking, but I certainly wouldn't do that while I was out and about. I do sometimes write in a notebook while I am on the roads - but I am pretty sure the notebook and pen are a better choice for writing out my French verb conjugations while I am out an about, then trying to type them out on a cell phone.
So my question is what on earth would I use it for? I'm genuinely baffled. I'm going to get one- resentfully - just in order to deal with 2fa. Is there anything else it would be useful for? I'd really like to figure something out, because it seems rather a waste of money to get one just to make four phone calls a month, and one or two 2fa's. If the thing costs me $30 per month that's going to add up to $5 per phone call.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:16 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I love this hand-sized magic that reads stories to me when I wake at 3am, takes photos of fine print so I can read packaging in the supermarket, directs me while driving without ever raising its voice, helps me support anxious students with a quick 'good luck' before exams, gives me internet on the go for emergency shopping, and let's me talk to my distant friends while sitting on the loo riding my bicycle.
I have all notifications switched off, a generous silent time switched on, and one rarely used social media messaging app that I keep for two friends who have internet and voip landlines but no mobile coverage.
I am psychologically attached to it. I can feel it missing if I leave home or work without it.
It is not in the top three things I would grab in a fire.
posted by Thella at 7:43 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have all notifications switched off, a generous silent time switched on, and one rarely used social media messaging app that I keep for two friends who have internet and voip landlines but no mobile coverage.
I am psychologically attached to it. I can feel it missing if I leave home or work without it.
It is not in the top three things I would grab in a fire.
posted by Thella at 7:43 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
One more thing about the "anxiety box"-- I'm old enough to remember what it was like to not be carrying something fragile and expensive, and I still like leaving my cell phone home, even though it's useful. It's a distraction just to make sure I don't lose it.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 8:06 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 8:06 PM on February 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’m really sad that Apple neglected and then discontinued the iPod Touch. It scratched a lot of the cellphone itch.
I guess my phone is genuinely useful a few times a month (less during the pandemic), and I guess I could rip the SIM card out of my phone, but… [shrug] maps, I guess? No, I could download maps and the GPS would still work. But identifying plants—oh wait no I could just take a photo and do that at home. I do like being able to message my fambly and friends.
posted by TangoCharlie at 8:30 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I guess my phone is genuinely useful a few times a month (less during the pandemic), and I guess I could rip the SIM card out of my phone, but… [shrug] maps, I guess? No, I could download maps and the GPS would still work. But identifying plants—oh wait no I could just take a photo and do that at home. I do like being able to message my fambly and friends.
posted by TangoCharlie at 8:30 PM on February 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
No cell phone. I have always had a phone phobia. I do have a landline but I never answer it unless my sister, friends, or pharmacy call me. I do have a problem with 2FA, but I email any entity that demands it and make it their problem to accommodate me.
It would be a nightmare to carry the dreaded cell phone everywhere with me. I'm an introvert so I don't much want or need all that much communication. I'm usually at the computer about 10-12 hours a day so I have easy enough contact through email. If I go to an unknown destination I look at a map online before I leave and am not afraid of a few wrong turns. Despite noy using a cellphone, I am a functional and friendly person.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 12:05 AM on February 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
It would be a nightmare to carry the dreaded cell phone everywhere with me. I'm an introvert so I don't much want or need all that much communication. I'm usually at the computer about 10-12 hours a day so I have easy enough contact through email. If I go to an unknown destination I look at a map online before I leave and am not afraid of a few wrong turns. Despite noy using a cellphone, I am a functional and friendly person.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 12:05 AM on February 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
I hate that messaging is fragmented. Some people use Facebook to message me. I won't install it on my phone because it too invasive, so that's a pain.
I have never yet used the Facebook app (and indeed, have less and less use for Facebook all the time), but I do have friends who use it as a communications channel. You can have the Messenger app without Facebook on your phone.
I have a kind of strained relationship with my phone. I recognize that it is handy for locating people in crowds and the like, but at the same time I am not crazy at the way an elderly/disabled/heavily pregnant passenger on a bus or subway will have to stand because everyone seated is utterly engrossed in Candy Crush.
I mentioned on the blue back in the dawn times of 2008 how I observed that little else had fallen in status as quickly as cell phones — maybe a decade went past from it being an affectation to carry one to it being an affectation not to have one.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:54 AM on February 12, 2023
I have never yet used the Facebook app (and indeed, have less and less use for Facebook all the time), but I do have friends who use it as a communications channel. You can have the Messenger app without Facebook on your phone.
I have a kind of strained relationship with my phone. I recognize that it is handy for locating people in crowds and the like, but at the same time I am not crazy at the way an elderly/disabled/heavily pregnant passenger on a bus or subway will have to stand because everyone seated is utterly engrossed in Candy Crush.
I mentioned on the blue back in the dawn times of 2008 how I observed that little else had fallen in status as quickly as cell phones — maybe a decade went past from it being an affectation to carry one to it being an affectation not to have one.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:54 AM on February 12, 2023
I had a cellphone, but not a smartphone, until about a year ago when T-Mobile dropped 3G. I never felt the need because I'm on a desktop all day anyway. Got an iPhone from my daughter, and I still haven't mastered it. I put off web browsing because the setup seems a hassle when I have my much easier-to-read desktop. But I LOVE being able to take pictures anytime and send them to someone, and the ability to navigate in an unfamiliar city without studying maps ahead of time is a game-changer for me. I still don't know how to scan a QR code, but haven't needed to yet.
posted by Miss Cellania at 5:59 AM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Miss Cellania at 5:59 AM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I would like QR codes better if they worked better when scanning, except half the time they somehow don't. For something so 'simple and easy," why isn't it?
Re: the flip phone charging: this is what I hear from the friends with the flip phone. I presume theirs are so old they don't charge any more.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:59 AM on February 12, 2023
Re: the flip phone charging: this is what I hear from the friends with the flip phone. I presume theirs are so old they don't charge any more.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:59 AM on February 12, 2023
I would like QR codes better if they worked better when scanning, except half the time they somehow don't. For something so 'simple and easy," why isn't it?
In that light, QR codes are a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. URL shorteners would do just as well. (They would actually work better for me, but that's a different story.)
I am trying to think of an accessibility issue where QR codes make more sense. But, if jenfullmoon is right and they don't scan often anyway... wouldn't typing out a couple of letters make more sense?
To the article: the phone is the part of the smartphone I use the least. And as others have already mentioned, it's easy to bag on people being "zombies" always looking at their phones. Do they have the same feeling when people read books? Listen to music? Look at family photos? Because that's what I use my phone for. It's all just in one convenient package. It's just a lot easier to dismiss since it is all in one black bock where the packaging doesn't show what you are actually doing.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
In that light, QR codes are a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. URL shorteners would do just as well. (They would actually work better for me, but that's a different story.)
I am trying to think of an accessibility issue where QR codes make more sense. But, if jenfullmoon is right and they don't scan often anyway... wouldn't typing out a couple of letters make more sense?
To the article: the phone is the part of the smartphone I use the least. And as others have already mentioned, it's easy to bag on people being "zombies" always looking at their phones. Do they have the same feeling when people read books? Listen to music? Look at family photos? Because that's what I use my phone for. It's all just in one convenient package. It's just a lot easier to dismiss since it is all in one black bock where the packaging doesn't show what you are actually doing.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
I would like QR codes better if they worked better when scanning, except half the time they somehow don't. For something so 'simple and easy," why isn't it?
The last time we went to a brewery that had a QR-only menu, the QR code worked on my spouse's phone but not mine, even though both phones are similarly new iphones. So it was fine, we had one working menu and could share, but there's just too many failure points (from someone not having a smart phone to someone not knowing how to access a QR code to, like on my phone, it just not working for whatever reason) for this to be a solid solution.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:14 AM on February 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
The last time we went to a brewery that had a QR-only menu, the QR code worked on my spouse's phone but not mine, even though both phones are similarly new iphones. So it was fine, we had one working menu and could share, but there's just too many failure points (from someone not having a smart phone to someone not knowing how to access a QR code to, like on my phone, it just not working for whatever reason) for this to be a solid solution.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:14 AM on February 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
The streets are numbered!
Count me entirely unsurprised to find this person has lived his entire life in Long Island & Manhattan.
I mean, no disrespect to the NYC contingent, but a ton of the rest of the cities in the US have wound up with all sorts of interesting things like they simply have no "East 2nd Street", or have renamed it "Bob Jones Avenue", or it exists, technically, in what would be in between 1st and 3rd, only it's a little short alley 2 blocks north of where the current 1st and 3rd are, or even better, it continues on for miles doing this same thing, apparently dead ending at a major cross street but in reality continuing on 2 blocks west until it hits the next major cross street, when it jogs 3 blocks east.
"Comprehensible grid of numbered streets" is more a sort of vague intention in a lot of the rest of America, is what I'm sayin'.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:20 AM on February 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
Count me entirely unsurprised to find this person has lived his entire life in Long Island & Manhattan.
I mean, no disrespect to the NYC contingent, but a ton of the rest of the cities in the US have wound up with all sorts of interesting things like they simply have no "East 2nd Street", or have renamed it "Bob Jones Avenue", or it exists, technically, in what would be in between 1st and 3rd, only it's a little short alley 2 blocks north of where the current 1st and 3rd are, or even better, it continues on for miles doing this same thing, apparently dead ending at a major cross street but in reality continuing on 2 blocks west until it hits the next major cross street, when it jogs 3 blocks east.
"Comprehensible grid of numbered streets" is more a sort of vague intention in a lot of the rest of America, is what I'm sayin'.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:20 AM on February 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
The streets are numbered!
Except where they are not…Europe for example
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:04 AM on February 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
Except where they are not…Europe for example
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:04 AM on February 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
Set boundaries, turn off your notifications, and live your life.
Yes, exactly. Let's say inconvenient nophone lady with the desire to use work to get away from her sexist tool husband buckled to work pressure and got her a smart phone.
She would, just as you suggest, set a bunch of boundaries, turn off her notifications, turn off her phone, put it in a drawer, and proceed to lead her offline life as usual.
And you'd send the notification from a thousand miles away that the office was closed for "covid cleaning;" she'd miss the notification because she has notifications turned off; she'd drive to the office and not be able to get in. If and only if she for some un-work-related reason like that she likes to eat lunch at someplace with QR code menus she decided to bring the phone with her (why else would she--it's expensive and she could lose it and she doesn't need it at work anyway because she uses her desk phone for two factor), she might remember that maybe there could be a notification about this and drag the phone out from its special zippered and foil-lined pouch of safety.
She'd find out then and only then why the door was locked.
Chances are excellent that this lady getting a smartphone would help her at work not one iota. But it helps work plenty. In this situation, you'd have done your due diligence because you'd've followed work CYA protocol by 1. closing the office for covid cleaning; and 2. sending her the notification.
Set boundaries, turn off your notifications, and live your life.
Yeah, except no. If you want the benefits of the phone, you have to throw the doors open and let the blingblings eat your brain.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:05 AM on February 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yes, exactly. Let's say inconvenient nophone lady with the desire to use work to get away from her sexist tool husband buckled to work pressure and got her a smart phone.
She would, just as you suggest, set a bunch of boundaries, turn off her notifications, turn off her phone, put it in a drawer, and proceed to lead her offline life as usual.
And you'd send the notification from a thousand miles away that the office was closed for "covid cleaning;" she'd miss the notification because she has notifications turned off; she'd drive to the office and not be able to get in. If and only if she for some un-work-related reason like that she likes to eat lunch at someplace with QR code menus she decided to bring the phone with her (why else would she--it's expensive and she could lose it and she doesn't need it at work anyway because she uses her desk phone for two factor), she might remember that maybe there could be a notification about this and drag the phone out from its special zippered and foil-lined pouch of safety.
She'd find out then and only then why the door was locked.
Chances are excellent that this lady getting a smartphone would help her at work not one iota. But it helps work plenty. In this situation, you'd have done your due diligence because you'd've followed work CYA protocol by 1. closing the office for covid cleaning; and 2. sending her the notification.
Set boundaries, turn off your notifications, and live your life.
Yeah, except no. If you want the benefits of the phone, you have to throw the doors open and let the blingblings eat your brain.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:05 AM on February 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
This is a fascinating discussion, not least because of the idea that “not having a cell phone” is basically hors de combat at this point. It’s been referenced above, but there’s damning and extensive research literature showing correlations between cell phone use and a ton of things MetaFilter claims broadly to dislike. I don’t know if there will be “regular smartphone use is as dangerous as smoking” campaigns in our lifetimes, but could the piles of noted negative effects in aggregate amount to some sort of “smartphone syndrome” thing decades down the road? Of course.
Also weird is the unspoken assumption here that people can just… employ willpower to Smartphone Better. The parallels to historical (and sometimes still believed) claims that addictions are just… things you can will your way out of? Uh.
(Note: I am not a “no cell phone guy,” but I can see the appeal.)
posted by cupcakeninja at 9:28 AM on February 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
Also weird is the unspoken assumption here that people can just… employ willpower to Smartphone Better. The parallels to historical (and sometimes still believed) claims that addictions are just… things you can will your way out of? Uh.
(Note: I am not a “no cell phone guy,” but I can see the appeal.)
posted by cupcakeninja at 9:28 AM on February 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
Re desk phones - I have not had a phone on my desk for years, even pre pandemic. Work gives us mobile phones and a laptop with Teams. Most of the clients I work with have been moving away from desk phones as well. I understand we still have a switchboard that gets answered and even a fax number. I vaguely recall getting an email with a faxed document once. But nobody calls me on a phone. They send Teams or Zoom invitations. In an emergency, real or perceived, I get a text message. I may choose to call somebody on their mobile in that case because there is a chance I am not by my laptop. But that only ever happens when I travel and I get paid, among other things, not to ignore messages.
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:31 AM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:31 AM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have not had a phone on my desk for years, even pre pandemic.
Yep, things seem to be trending that way. Work just last week sent out a survey to see if we're using our deskphones or mostly forwarding them to personal phones/using personal phones entirely. It was evenly split when I sent in my response.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:35 AM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yep, things seem to be trending that way. Work just last week sent out a survey to see if we're using our deskphones or mostly forwarding them to personal phones/using personal phones entirely. It was evenly split when I sent in my response.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:35 AM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I held out until 2018. I like to mention I've been working with VR for longer than I've had a cell phone.
I did have a book of phone numbers. The VR company I worked at had no land-line so I would call people using the phone from another company that shared our co-working space.
The major friction for me was meeting up with people. A lot of people seemed resistant to deciding in advance precisely when and where we meet. Now we send a series of updates that get more and more precise the closer we get to actually meeting.
posted by RobotHero at 9:56 AM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I did have a book of phone numbers. The VR company I worked at had no land-line so I would call people using the phone from another company that shared our co-working space.
The major friction for me was meeting up with people. A lot of people seemed resistant to deciding in advance precisely when and where we meet. Now we send a series of updates that get more and more precise the closer we get to actually meeting.
posted by RobotHero at 9:56 AM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have never owned or used a smartphone. Still using the basic Nokia candybar (tho' made by HMD and not as good OS as the originals). I can see myself being shut out of things but I will continue with the inconvenience.
posted by infini at 10:42 AM on February 12, 2023
posted by infini at 10:42 AM on February 12, 2023
phunniemee, I turn off notifications, except for things I want, like weather and space events, and I do not get any sound or vibration alerts, except actual emergencies, like crazy weather*. People in my life give me a lot of crap for not reading and responding to texts promptly. It's quite typical for the person who proposed and is planning an event to send information by phone message, text, fb, even though, when I asked, I'll say email works best. It makes it ridiculously difficult to follow, so I'll round up the info and reply in email. I find texting encourages a lot of on the fly communication that isn't well organized or effective. It's fantastic for I just got out of that thing early, so I'm going to the bookstore cafe; join me? and I'm 10 minutes away, see you shortly. Most people think their preferred form of communication is best and find it difficult to accommodate the needs of others; that's how people are. Am I complaining that some people don't respect my boundaries? Yes, I am.
Technology is changing faster than social norms can keep up with.
*I was in a call center, where personal mobile phones are required to be silenced, when an emergency weather alert was broadcast. Really interesting to hear 75+ phones go off over about a minute, not perfectly synchronized. In 20 years of using mobile phones, I think I've had 2 emergency alerts, both weather. Coastal Maine can be exciting.
posted by theora55 at 11:13 AM on February 12, 2023
Technology is changing faster than social norms can keep up with.
*I was in a call center, where personal mobile phones are required to be silenced, when an emergency weather alert was broadcast. Really interesting to hear 75+ phones go off over about a minute, not perfectly synchronized. In 20 years of using mobile phones, I think I've had 2 emergency alerts, both weather. Coastal Maine can be exciting.
posted by theora55 at 11:13 AM on February 12, 2023
an emergency weather alert was broadcast. Really interesting to hear 75+ phones go off over about a minute, not perfectly synchronized. In 20 years of using mobile phones, I think I've had 2 emergency alerts, both weather. Coastal Maine can be exciting.
That can be really annoying depending on geography. It seems to have gotten better, but it at least used to happen by county, and some counties in the western US are really big, so a weather alert happening in the county you live in doesn't necessarily mean there's actually any danger. So, I'd be at work 3 blocks from the Pacific ocean and we'd all get *FLASH FLOOD WARNING* notifications because it was the summer and the monsoon weather pattern was developing over the desert like it does almost every day in July and August. The desert 60 miles and a 6000' tall mountain range away, but still in the same county.
posted by LionIndex at 11:25 AM on February 12, 2023
That can be really annoying depending on geography. It seems to have gotten better, but it at least used to happen by county, and some counties in the western US are really big, so a weather alert happening in the county you live in doesn't necessarily mean there's actually any danger. So, I'd be at work 3 blocks from the Pacific ocean and we'd all get *FLASH FLOOD WARNING* notifications because it was the summer and the monsoon weather pattern was developing over the desert like it does almost every day in July and August. The desert 60 miles and a 6000' tall mountain range away, but still in the same county.
posted by LionIndex at 11:25 AM on February 12, 2023
That can be really annoying depending on geography. It seems to have gotten better, but it at least used to happen by county, and some counties in the western US are really big, so a weather alert happening in the county you live in doesn't necessarily mean there's actually any danger.
I turned mine off last year after I was woken up in the middle of the night by a weather warning about fog.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:16 PM on February 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
I turned mine off last year after I was woken up in the middle of the night by a weather warning about fog.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:16 PM on February 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
Spending time letting your mind wander has some benefits, according to the researchers. It can help people solve problems, enhance their creativity and even help them find meaning in life.
I had a silly argument with someone a decade ago about smartphones, when they were a little more novel. They didn't see the point of buying an expensive device and then pay an additional monthly fee. After a lot of meandering discussion, eventually they succinctly described that their entire life consisted of three situations:
1- At work, in front of a computer
2 - At home, in front of a computer
3 - With family (and they said the only people contacting them would be family)
And I would agree completely that there was no reason for them to have a smartphone. But I just felt kind of sorry for them at the end.
posted by meowzilla at 12:45 PM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I had a silly argument with someone a decade ago about smartphones, when they were a little more novel. They didn't see the point of buying an expensive device and then pay an additional monthly fee. After a lot of meandering discussion, eventually they succinctly described that their entire life consisted of three situations:
1- At work, in front of a computer
2 - At home, in front of a computer
3 - With family (and they said the only people contacting them would be family)
And I would agree completely that there was no reason for them to have a smartphone. But I just felt kind of sorry for them at the end.
posted by meowzilla at 12:45 PM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Mr RedEmma does not have a cell phone. I have had one since 2000 and needed one for work. My 85 yo father has had one since they were those bag phones you plugged into your car, and does just fine with his smartphone. He's always amazed at what he can do with it. (He recently traveled to Europe alone and it was his main lifeline.)
It's true that my spouse does depend on me having one on occasion. I do a lot of the grocery shopping. It would be great if we had a better way to communicate, but he is generally near the landline and answers it. Also, he can text back from his laptop, and does so. And he works from home. 2FA does mean I have to text him the code when he needs it. I don't like that he's incommunicado when on runs in the woods with the dog, but the one time it was necessary, he could flag someone down with a phone.
I don't mind that he doesn't have a phone, really. It's just his choice, innit? When we get distracted by our phones, he calls us Phonies. Which isn't wrong.
posted by RedEmma at 1:28 PM on February 12, 2023
It's true that my spouse does depend on me having one on occasion. I do a lot of the grocery shopping. It would be great if we had a better way to communicate, but he is generally near the landline and answers it. Also, he can text back from his laptop, and does so. And he works from home. 2FA does mean I have to text him the code when he needs it. I don't like that he's incommunicado when on runs in the woods with the dog, but the one time it was necessary, he could flag someone down with a phone.
I don't mind that he doesn't have a phone, really. It's just his choice, innit? When we get distracted by our phones, he calls us Phonies. Which isn't wrong.
posted by RedEmma at 1:28 PM on February 12, 2023
I don't talk on the phone a lot, but when I do, I'm glad to have a cell phone that I can use headphones with. Due to some joint issues, actually holding a phone up to my ear for extended times is physically painful and challenging, and speakerphone rarely works well for me, both b/c I find the audio quality challenging to process, and also, living in a small apartment and maybe I don't want my neighbors to hear both sides of the conversation I'm in.
Also, T9 was way better.
Okay, I do really miss the days of T9. I kept thinking eventually I would adapt enough, things would get better, but I rarely make use of the iphone predictions b/c it's just not a smooth process. T9 was so fast and effortless and didn't require staring at the keyboard the whole time. I do miss it.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:51 PM on February 12, 2023
Also, T9 was way better.
Okay, I do really miss the days of T9. I kept thinking eventually I would adapt enough, things would get better, but I rarely make use of the iphone predictions b/c it's just not a smooth process. T9 was so fast and effortless and didn't require staring at the keyboard the whole time. I do miss it.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:51 PM on February 12, 2023
The streets are numbered!
Except where they are not…Europe for example
Along with almost every place in the world. I mean, sure, if you know the streets in Brisbane's CBD running roughly east/west are queens and north/south are kings, both in order of reign, you might have hope as long as you can remember what order they reigned in. For everywhere else, as a person that has spent many years traveling to and from cities in various countries, navigation by phone has been an absolute blessing.
There sure are days when I wish I didn't have a mobile phone, but that's on me for being obsessive bout having it close and turned on. There's nothing stopping me from turning it off whenever I feel like it.
One thing that I will say for the biggest Telco here in Australia is that, since almost nobody uses public phones any more, those that remain are now free for any call within Australia or to a mobile in Australia. They trumpet it as a public service, but really it's just that they're required by law to maintain a working public phone network and it's cheaper to make them free than pay people to go around emptying the money out.
posted by dg at 5:16 PM on February 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
Except where they are not…Europe for example
Along with almost every place in the world. I mean, sure, if you know the streets in Brisbane's CBD running roughly east/west are queens and north/south are kings, both in order of reign, you might have hope as long as you can remember what order they reigned in. For everywhere else, as a person that has spent many years traveling to and from cities in various countries, navigation by phone has been an absolute blessing.
There sure are days when I wish I didn't have a mobile phone, but that's on me for being obsessive bout having it close and turned on. There's nothing stopping me from turning it off whenever I feel like it.
One thing that I will say for the biggest Telco here in Australia is that, since almost nobody uses public phones any more, those that remain are now free for any call within Australia or to a mobile in Australia. They trumpet it as a public service, but really it's just that they're required by law to maintain a working public phone network and it's cheaper to make them free than pay people to go around emptying the money out.
posted by dg at 5:16 PM on February 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
URL shorteners would do just as well.
As someone who works with a lot of digitally divided folks and has been working on an article about this exact thing this week: you'd be surprised at how many people, even smart phone owners, don't necessarily know what a URL is. So having them open a specific web address is actually a slightly more complex task than pointing their camera at a QR code. This doesn't speak to the fact that QR codes sometimes don't work and the other issues, just that entering a web address, especially for someone with mobility or cognition issues, into a smartphone is a non-trivial task. I've read this thread with interest especially to see which aspects of cell phone (smart phone or feature phone) ownership people find optional or non-optional.
posted by jessamyn at 8:23 PM on February 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
As someone who works with a lot of digitally divided folks and has been working on an article about this exact thing this week: you'd be surprised at how many people, even smart phone owners, don't necessarily know what a URL is. So having them open a specific web address is actually a slightly more complex task than pointing their camera at a QR code. This doesn't speak to the fact that QR codes sometimes don't work and the other issues, just that entering a web address, especially for someone with mobility or cognition issues, into a smartphone is a non-trivial task. I've read this thread with interest especially to see which aspects of cell phone (smart phone or feature phone) ownership people find optional or non-optional.
posted by jessamyn at 8:23 PM on February 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
Deeply conflicted today. Because if you have a phone and sacrifice your peace of mind to the blings, this kind of thing can happen!
(WaPo link to a story about a lost dog who rang the Ring doorbell at the animal shelter at 1:15 AM and woke up a staff person, who recognized the dog, raced to the shelter, let the dog in and fed and watered her, and the next day they re-united her with her owner.)
(Always get the dog's name. Bailey.)
posted by Don Pepino at 7:31 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
(WaPo link to a story about a lost dog who rang the Ring doorbell at the animal shelter at 1:15 AM and woke up a staff person, who recognized the dog, raced to the shelter, let the dog in and fed and watered her, and the next day they re-united her with her owner.)
(Always get the dog's name. Bailey.)
posted by Don Pepino at 7:31 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
and the next day they re-united her with her owner
Much to said dog's chagrin, it sounds like.
posted by tigrrrlily at 8:52 AM on February 13, 2023
Much to said dog's chagrin, it sounds like.
posted by tigrrrlily at 8:52 AM on February 13, 2023
Pursuant to the discussion above, I just got an email from Alaska Airlines that basically says "we're redoing our check-in process and now you'll need to have a cellphone and our app in order to get on the plane".
...I mean, they probably have some sort of print-at-home option (if you still have a printer) but they're apparently ripping out the boarding pass printing kiosks. WTF.
So, uh, take care and plan ahead before you go to the airport I guess?
posted by aramaic at 11:12 AM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
...I mean, they probably have some sort of print-at-home option (if you still have a printer) but they're apparently ripping out the boarding pass printing kiosks. WTF.
So, uh, take care and plan ahead before you go to the airport I guess?
posted by aramaic at 11:12 AM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
...I mean, they probably have some sort of print-at-home option
They likely will still have them at the airport too, they will levy a surcharge for you to talk to a person to get it printed.
posted by mmascolino at 12:17 PM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
They likely will still have them at the airport too, they will levy a surcharge for you to talk to a person to get it printed.
posted by mmascolino at 12:17 PM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Our garage door opener just had to be replaced. It was 13 years old, predating our move into this house by some years, so it's not unexpected. The old one had physical remotes. The new one does, too, but there is also An App For That because it's 2023.
I was actually worried that we'd be dependent on the App For That but we're not that far gone yet.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 3:34 PM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was actually worried that we'd be dependent on the App For That but we're not that far gone yet.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 3:34 PM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Like most people, I don't live in the US.
…so? You may be surprised to learn that provinces exist. So do regions, departments, even … gasp! Cantons!
My goodness, an entire world of interesting sub-national political groupings! Wow! In fact, some of them are duplicates in name — for example, India has states too! And some of them also have cellphone access programs! Heavens, such variety! I’m just so pleased I could start you down this path of discovery.
posted by aramaic at 5:19 PM on February 13, 2023
…so? You may be surprised to learn that provinces exist. So do regions, departments, even … gasp! Cantons!
My goodness, an entire world of interesting sub-national political groupings! Wow! In fact, some of them are duplicates in name — for example, India has states too! And some of them also have cellphone access programs! Heavens, such variety! I’m just so pleased I could start you down this path of discovery.
posted by aramaic at 5:19 PM on February 13, 2023
Are they building new apartments without buzzers yet? I figured that would be one sign the world has equated cell phone with full citizenship.
posted by RobotHero at 8:13 AM on February 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotHero at 8:13 AM on February 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
I would prefer not to have a smartphone because they are too useful. But they aren't making usable second-hand feature phones that meet my basic criteria.
So I have a locked-down smartphone that can only be used to do a handful of basic things:
- phone
- text
- receive photo texts and group texts without breaking
- navigate by maps
- The "Buy Nothing" app, which is still pretty useless because nobody's there, but I'm not on Facebook and they don't have a web-based equivalent yet
- calculate arithmetic
- set alarms
- take photos
- send photos
- I think it probably has hotspot, flashlight, and calendar features as well, but I haven't used them yet
- My partner used it to scan the QR code on a cat that followed us (really just the canine home once. The QR code took us to a webpage that explained in great detail that this cat follows everyone home and if he is outside his range could you please call and his human will be by in-between gig economy gigs, thank you very much for your help.
and that's pretty much it. I share it with my partner, because every time we consider getting a second phone, it just doesn't make sense. We hardly use the phone enough for one person. When we go somewhere, it doesn't follow us.
posted by aniola at 8:30 AM on February 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
So I have a locked-down smartphone that can only be used to do a handful of basic things:
- phone
- text
- receive photo texts and group texts without breaking
- navigate by maps
- The "Buy Nothing" app, which is still pretty useless because nobody's there, but I'm not on Facebook and they don't have a web-based equivalent yet
- calculate arithmetic
- set alarms
- take photos
- send photos
- I think it probably has hotspot, flashlight, and calendar features as well, but I haven't used them yet
- My partner used it to scan the QR code on a cat that followed us (really just the canine home once. The QR code took us to a webpage that explained in great detail that this cat follows everyone home and if he is outside his range could you please call and his human will be by in-between gig economy gigs, thank you very much for your help.
and that's pretty much it. I share it with my partner, because every time we consider getting a second phone, it just doesn't make sense. We hardly use the phone enough for one person. When we go somewhere, it doesn't follow us.
posted by aniola at 8:30 AM on February 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
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