A Yale Professor Suggested Mass Suicide for Old People in Japan.
February 14, 2023 12:35 PM Subscribe
What Did He Mean? Yusuke Narita says he is mainly addressing a growing effort to revamp Japan’s age-based hierarchies. Still, he has pushed the country’s hottest button.
[As I read the article, it was impossible not to remember Soylent Green, launched exactly 50 years ago.]
I don't think he was misunderstood at all, but at the same time, his statements strike a "language of the unheard" chord, as Japanese cultural deference to older individuals has been a problem for the country.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:00 PM on February 14, 2023
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:00 PM on February 14, 2023
“I feel like the only solution is pretty clear,” he said during one online news program in late 2021. “In the end, isn’t it mass suicide and mass ‘seppuku’ of the elderly?”
He said his comments about mass suicide and the elderly had been “taken out of context.”
I had a modest proposal joke about what should be done to people who use the "taken out of context" excuse, but this story is too depressing.
posted by AlSweigart at 1:02 PM on February 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
He said his comments about mass suicide and the elderly had been “taken out of context.”
I had a modest proposal joke about what should be done to people who use the "taken out of context" excuse, but this story is too depressing.
posted by AlSweigart at 1:02 PM on February 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
Trolling the boomers is a popular pastime these days, but this is truly vile.
posted by aeshnid at 1:07 PM on February 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by aeshnid at 1:07 PM on February 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Christopher Buckley's 2007 solution for the US version of this "challenge". Since our deference to Olds -- myself included -- is slightly different from Japan's, would the acceptance of this not-so-modest proposal be more likely?
posted by Citizen Cane Juice at 1:08 PM on February 14, 2023
posted by Citizen Cane Juice at 1:08 PM on February 14, 2023
The article doesn't have enough of Narita's own words to determine if he's making serious, though horrifying, suggestions (like Logan's Run) or if he's using some kind of large-scale deadpan satire (like Swift) to force conversation on an important and increasingly urgent set of problems. Either way, his aim seems sincere and serious, to catalyze discussion and eventually specific action on this large, intractable problem. (And if he's literally serious, then ugh, that's some bleak shit.)
posted by LooseFilter at 1:15 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by LooseFilter at 1:15 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Paraphrasing because I can't find the tweet, but from an economist: "No, despite what you heard, that stereotype of economists is wrong. We're really normal, reasonable, compassionate ... oh, damn."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:17 PM on February 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:17 PM on February 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'm a little surprised that the lesson of The Ballad of Narayama (1958) by Keisuke Kinoshita needs to be relearned in Japan. But only a little, seeing as how it hasn't even been 8 years since the last time I expressed a similar sentiment.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:25 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 1:25 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Certainly satire; the post wasn't tagged with twelve omaha solemn certainty.
posted by neuracnu at 1:25 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by neuracnu at 1:25 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Mr.Know-it-some : as an economist, that was my reaction also!
posted by dismas at 1:25 PM on February 14, 2023
posted by dismas at 1:25 PM on February 14, 2023
I'm a little surprised that the lesson of The Ballad of Narayama (1958) by Keisuke Kinoshita needs to be relearned in Japan.
ob1quixote, I was literally typing up a comment, thought better of it and deleted and refreshed the page, because I just knew someone was going to beat me to it ;)
I saw the film over 20 years ago, the IMDb trailer is not quite the movie I remember though.. was the thematic score really that overwrought?
posted by elkevelvet at 1:32 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
ob1quixote, I was literally typing up a comment, thought better of it and deleted and refreshed the page, because I just knew someone was going to beat me to it ;)
I saw the film over 20 years ago, the IMDb trailer is not quite the movie I remember though.. was the thematic score really that overwrought?
posted by elkevelvet at 1:32 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
His Twitter bio: “The things you’re told you’re not allowed to say are usually true.”
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:45 PM on February 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:45 PM on February 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
you're not supposed to say he's an asshole!
posted by elkevelvet at 1:56 PM on February 14, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 1:56 PM on February 14, 2023 [12 favorites]
What the fuck is going on with that guy's glasses?
posted by thatwhichfalls at 2:13 PM on February 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 2:13 PM on February 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
I for one am shocked to discover that an economist is a psychopath.
posted by interogative mood at 2:18 PM on February 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 2:18 PM on February 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
This reminds me of the idea that it's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism; I guess it's easier to propose, jokingly or otherwise, a world in which the elderly commit suicide en masse than to propose that we structure the world in such a way that we care for people who need it.
posted by an octopus IRL at 2:21 PM on February 14, 2023 [24 favorites]
posted by an octopus IRL at 2:21 PM on February 14, 2023 [24 favorites]
It's grim reading but at the same time what else do Japanese people think is going to happen? The population is declining and greying and this is acutely seen in rural areas, there's been no economic growth for a generation and the debt, both public and private, has kept on increasing.
Wages have been stagnant for most people's working lives and it is not enough to raise a family on. Yes the government will give incentives for having kids but it doesn't extend to the after school tutoring needed to do well on entrance exams for the good schools which are the one recognized ticket to more than a marginal existence. It seems like every second ad is for a loan company of some kind. When I lived there 20 years ago most purchases were made in cash, when I last visited in the summer it seemed like most people used credit cards instead. I'm hoping they're paying that balance off each month but somehow I don't think so.
The economy is hampered because women are discriminated at in the job market because the expectation is that they will quit once they have a baby anyways so why bother hiring them in the first place, or if they are hired it'll be in a lower responsibility track so that they are easier to replace. When they try to re-enter the workforce there aren't any concessions made for their missed time so they lose out against male workers that have been there the whole time.
Immigration is next to non-existent and immigrants face discrimination from all corners. Maybe if you're from a developed country and work in finance or tech and live in Tokyo your salary and other privileges will make up for this but it is always there.
Say you can "fix" these societal issues so women are better integrated in the work force, immigration helps with the age mix of the population, there are more good jobs available and people have more kids as a result. It still isn't going to stop the fact that people are living longer and longer lives and the costs for taking care of them will use up increasingly large amounts of national budgets.
Everything that is happening in Japan now is a vision of what might happen in other countries in a few years. In Canada we have legal medical assistance in dying (MAID) and a big concern is how poverty and economic concerns play into people's decision to make use of MAID. Right now it's limited to people with terminal illnesses, and there are stories of people seeking MAID because they're sick, but not sick enough to be in a hospital yet, and can't afford any place to live. It will soon be opened up to those with mental illness and it is a concern that you're going to see people whose economic situation has contributed to their mental illness or ability to cope with it are going to seek out MAID because they don't feel like they have other options. What will the situation be like in 20 years with more seniors living in sub-standard care homes?
My wife's maternal grandparents both have dementia and are in a care facility in rural Japan. They haven't been able to have in-person visitors for something like 2+ years now, just video calls on an ipad, which can't be good for their condition and makes it hard to see what the quality of care they're getting is as well. What happens to their care as the economy gets worse and budgets shrink? I would expect there are guidelines in place for what medical interventions are appropriate given a person's health. Instead of mass suicide at 75 might it be that certain interventions that would be given now would be withheld for the elderly instead? In essence they can live as long as it isn't too expensive for them to do so.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:23 PM on February 14, 2023 [25 favorites]
Wages have been stagnant for most people's working lives and it is not enough to raise a family on. Yes the government will give incentives for having kids but it doesn't extend to the after school tutoring needed to do well on entrance exams for the good schools which are the one recognized ticket to more than a marginal existence. It seems like every second ad is for a loan company of some kind. When I lived there 20 years ago most purchases were made in cash, when I last visited in the summer it seemed like most people used credit cards instead. I'm hoping they're paying that balance off each month but somehow I don't think so.
The economy is hampered because women are discriminated at in the job market because the expectation is that they will quit once they have a baby anyways so why bother hiring them in the first place, or if they are hired it'll be in a lower responsibility track so that they are easier to replace. When they try to re-enter the workforce there aren't any concessions made for their missed time so they lose out against male workers that have been there the whole time.
Immigration is next to non-existent and immigrants face discrimination from all corners. Maybe if you're from a developed country and work in finance or tech and live in Tokyo your salary and other privileges will make up for this but it is always there.
Say you can "fix" these societal issues so women are better integrated in the work force, immigration helps with the age mix of the population, there are more good jobs available and people have more kids as a result. It still isn't going to stop the fact that people are living longer and longer lives and the costs for taking care of them will use up increasingly large amounts of national budgets.
Everything that is happening in Japan now is a vision of what might happen in other countries in a few years. In Canada we have legal medical assistance in dying (MAID) and a big concern is how poverty and economic concerns play into people's decision to make use of MAID. Right now it's limited to people with terminal illnesses, and there are stories of people seeking MAID because they're sick, but not sick enough to be in a hospital yet, and can't afford any place to live. It will soon be opened up to those with mental illness and it is a concern that you're going to see people whose economic situation has contributed to their mental illness or ability to cope with it are going to seek out MAID because they don't feel like they have other options. What will the situation be like in 20 years with more seniors living in sub-standard care homes?
My wife's maternal grandparents both have dementia and are in a care facility in rural Japan. They haven't been able to have in-person visitors for something like 2+ years now, just video calls on an ipad, which can't be good for their condition and makes it hard to see what the quality of care they're getting is as well. What happens to their care as the economy gets worse and budgets shrink? I would expect there are guidelines in place for what medical interventions are appropriate given a person's health. Instead of mass suicide at 75 might it be that certain interventions that would be given now would be withheld for the elderly instead? In essence they can live as long as it isn't too expensive for them to do so.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:23 PM on February 14, 2023 [25 favorites]
Boomers in the US are not exactly committing seppuku but they are working as demographic group in a bipartisan fashion to shorten their own lives which is kind of fascinating in a horrific way.
posted by srboisvert at 2:33 PM on February 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 2:33 PM on February 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was going to say, this story is coming out in the context of MAID and a LOT of fear about the value of life from pretty much every corner. If the government is encouraging people to commit suicide--a huge taboo in the West, even among people without any sort of religion--what exactly is going on here?
Combine that with the immortality rhetoric you are getting out of certain billionaires and I'm not surprised that there's so much talk about Satan, demons, and so on. It really is a lot to take in.
posted by kingdead at 2:36 PM on February 14, 2023
Combine that with the immortality rhetoric you are getting out of certain billionaires and I'm not surprised that there's so much talk about Satan, demons, and so on. It really is a lot to take in.
posted by kingdead at 2:36 PM on February 14, 2023
Boomers in the US are not exactly committing seppuku but they are working as demographic group in a bipartisan fashion to shorten their own lives which is kind of fascinating in a horrific way.
Boomers as a working demographic group are hitting their peak retirement phase right now and will be exiting the workplace en masse for the next decade. GenX's time is now because suddenly all those senior positions will open up. It won't last for long, but it comes at the right time, barring another recession/depression.
The demography of the entire world is going to change drastically over the next 20 years, and just simply the numbers game is going to reshape much of the world's economy. No wonder the Republicans are hungry for child labor laws to be rescinded.
posted by hippybear at 2:45 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Boomers as a working demographic group are hitting their peak retirement phase right now and will be exiting the workplace en masse for the next decade. GenX's time is now because suddenly all those senior positions will open up. It won't last for long, but it comes at the right time, barring another recession/depression.
The demography of the entire world is going to change drastically over the next 20 years, and just simply the numbers game is going to reshape much of the world's economy. No wonder the Republicans are hungry for child labor laws to be rescinded.
posted by hippybear at 2:45 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's not just Yale economists. Zeke Emanuel, who was on Biden's Covid-19 advisory team, is constantly doing PR to push his 'personal belief', that he can't seem to stop telling newspapers about, that life after 75 is worth fighting for. He's a Harvard guy so it is not Yalies being the crazies and he's also from probably the most powerful triumvirate of brothers currently in US politics (his brothers are Ari Emanuel - super agent and Live Nation guy, Rahm Emanuel - former chief of staff to Obama and former mayor of Chicago).
There is a pretty noticeable rise in eldercidal PR and more general devaluation of non-perfect life everywhere lately. It's not a great trend.
posted by srboisvert at 2:51 PM on February 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
There is a pretty noticeable rise in eldercidal PR and more general devaluation of non-perfect life everywhere lately. It's not a great trend.
posted by srboisvert at 2:51 PM on February 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
I for one am shocked to discover that an economist is a psychopath.
I know, right? Economists are, generally speaking, more sociopaths.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:55 PM on February 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
I know, right? Economists are, generally speaking, more sociopaths.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:55 PM on February 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'm a little surprised that the lesson of The Ballad of Narayama (1958) by Keisuke Kinoshita needs to be relearned in Japan.
I saw the film over 20 years ago, the IMDb trailer is not quite the movie I remember though.. was the thematic score really that overwrought?
You might be more familiar with the 1983 version, directed by Shohei Imamura.
posted by Awkward Philip at 3:12 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I saw the film over 20 years ago, the IMDb trailer is not quite the movie I remember though.. was the thematic score really that overwrought?
You might be more familiar with the 1983 version, directed by Shohei Imamura.
posted by Awkward Philip at 3:12 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
elkevelvet: “I saw the film over 20 years ago, the IMDb trailer is not quite the movie I remember though.. was the thematic score really that overwrought?”It's been a minute since I've seen it as well, but my recollection is that it looked and sounded more like a stage play filmed for the screen than anything that trailer looked like.
posted by ob1quixote at 3:17 PM on February 14, 2023
Instead of mass suicide at 75 might it be that certain interventions that would be given now would be withheld for the elderly instead? In essence they can live as long as it isn't too expensive for them to do so.
So, mass murder instead of mass suicide? The ageing population around the world is a massive problem that gets trotted out every now and again, but nobody really seems to care enough to seriously discuss actual solutions. It's going to come to us no matter what we do, so we should really be talking about it seriously because it's a big enough problem that hastily cobbled-together solutions are going to be far from ideal. Assessing quality of life in some way and making decisions about care levels on that basis may well be where we land, just barely short of actively disposing of the inconvenience.
posted by dg at 3:18 PM on February 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
So, mass murder instead of mass suicide? The ageing population around the world is a massive problem that gets trotted out every now and again, but nobody really seems to care enough to seriously discuss actual solutions. It's going to come to us no matter what we do, so we should really be talking about it seriously because it's a big enough problem that hastily cobbled-together solutions are going to be far from ideal. Assessing quality of life in some way and making decisions about care levels on that basis may well be where we land, just barely short of actively disposing of the inconvenience.
posted by dg at 3:18 PM on February 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Zeke Emanuel, who was on Biden's Covid-19 advisory team, is constantly doing PR to push his 'personal belief', that he can't seem to stop telling newspapers about, that life after 75 is worth fighting for.
I wonder how much that belief correlates to age. Mr. Emanuel is 65.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:23 PM on February 14, 2023
I wonder how much that belief correlates to age. Mr. Emanuel is 65.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:23 PM on February 14, 2023
that life after 75 is worth fighting for
is NOT. Arrrrgh. Worst possible typo.
posted by srboisvert at 3:24 PM on February 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
is NOT. Arrrrgh. Worst possible typo.
posted by srboisvert at 3:24 PM on February 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hate Crime. Crime Against Humanity. If it were an ethnic group, it would be promoting ethnic cleansing. Senior citizens are a marginalized group, aren't they? But even if they weren't offically considered as such, ...He should be charged with inciting violence. What if someone, after reading that, goes into a place filled with seniors and ...I don't even want to finish the sentence!! Does he not have anyone in his circle that he likes loves who happens to be a senior citizen???
posted by amfgf at 3:27 PM on February 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by amfgf at 3:27 PM on February 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
Dr. Narita described how even with insurance and government financing, his mother’s care cost him 100,000 yen — or about $760 — a month.
This petty fucker.
posted by kittensofthenight at 3:32 PM on February 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
This petty fucker.
posted by kittensofthenight at 3:32 PM on February 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
it was impossible not to remember Soylent Green
For me as well.
But not for my students in their 20s and 30s. Most hadn't heard the phrase before, except for the tech-centric ones who knew the drink-thing. And they didn't know the film's conceit.
posted by doctornemo at 3:33 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
For me as well.
But not for my students in their 20s and 30s. Most hadn't heard the phrase before, except for the tech-centric ones who knew the drink-thing. And they didn't know the film's conceit.
posted by doctornemo at 3:33 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
> life after 75 is not worth fighting for
I'll just say, having known a bunch of 75-85+ year old people rather closely for the past decade or so, that life after 75 is DEFINITELY worth fighting for. And life after 85, too for that matter.
Hell, my mother-in-law is round about 93, can't really walk and can barely use her arms, and is still enjoying the hell out of life, believe it or not. But for people who have maintained basic mobility at all, life after 75 and 85 is actually probably a lot better than life in some of the other decades of life.
Yeah, "life after 75 is not worth fighting for" sounds like something a 25 year old asshole would say, and might maintain until they are 45 or 55 or maybe (depending on exact ratio of assholery) even 65.
posted by flug at 4:05 PM on February 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'll just say, having known a bunch of 75-85+ year old people rather closely for the past decade or so, that life after 75 is DEFINITELY worth fighting for. And life after 85, too for that matter.
Hell, my mother-in-law is round about 93, can't really walk and can barely use her arms, and is still enjoying the hell out of life, believe it or not. But for people who have maintained basic mobility at all, life after 75 and 85 is actually probably a lot better than life in some of the other decades of life.
Yeah, "life after 75 is not worth fighting for" sounds like something a 25 year old asshole would say, and might maintain until they are 45 or 55 or maybe (depending on exact ratio of assholery) even 65.
posted by flug at 4:05 PM on February 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
CTRL+F "Dan Patrick" comes up empty but let me remind you that Texas Lite Guv suggested old people should be willing to die for the economy during the early weeks of the pandemic.
So this kind of sentiment is not entirely unknown in the US. Patrick is just saying the quiet part out loud, as he often does because he can not only get away with it, a large number of his constituents, aka folks whose votes are not suppressed, like it.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 4:15 PM on February 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
So this kind of sentiment is not entirely unknown in the US. Patrick is just saying the quiet part out loud, as he often does because he can not only get away with it, a large number of his constituents, aka folks whose votes are not suppressed, like it.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 4:15 PM on February 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
it was impossible not to remember Soylent Green
Having read the article, I was honestly reminded of Aktion T-4 and Lebensunwertes Leben ("life unworthy of life"). Not to mention the Sagamihara stabbings, which the article references. The words and ideas that Satoshi Uematsu was acting on are largely indistinguishable from those being promulgated by Narita.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:12 PM on February 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Having read the article, I was honestly reminded of Aktion T-4 and Lebensunwertes Leben ("life unworthy of life"). Not to mention the Sagamihara stabbings, which the article references. The words and ideas that Satoshi Uematsu was acting on are largely indistinguishable from those being promulgated by Narita.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:12 PM on February 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm still very concerned about those glasses. "Economist who wears whimsical spectacles and calls for ritual suicide of the elderly" has a real 21st century super villain feel.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:14 PM on February 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:14 PM on February 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I've always found Soylent Green a lot more comforting than I'm supposed to. If I could expect a death as peaceful and beautiful as Edward G. Robinson's, knowing that it would be of direct help in sustaining those left behind, it would make dystopia a lot easier to finish out my life in.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:51 PM on February 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:51 PM on February 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
David Attenborough is doing great stuff in his 90s! We can’t just have a cutoff. We need a panel to decide.
posted by snofoam at 6:15 PM on February 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 6:15 PM on February 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
This stuff terrifies me. I'm 71, productive, healthy, and an essential part of my family. I won a world championships in my age group this past year and beat a 47-year-old in my last tournament. I'm working on the current book and have three more in the pipeline (well, five, but two of them won't work). People seem to love to talk about the "problem of the elderly" as if it wasn't themselves they're talking about. Or they talk about "boomers" when they mean their problematic uncle or other people whose incompetence is not a factor of their age. This kind of ageism is absolutely the acceptable prejudice of otherwise enlightened folks, who think nothing of saying we should all be shoved into the Villages or their equivalent, and suggesting mass suicide or genocide ends up being said lightly. Sure, many older people lose competence and need support, but then so do people with long COVID, or people who have had strokes, or premature babies.
And the folklore about that generation being the one who had it good keeps getting promulgated as if the problems with the economy are their fault, rather than the fault of rampant soulless capitalists regardless of age.
posted by Peach at 6:19 PM on February 14, 2023 [13 favorites]
And the folklore about that generation being the one who had it good keeps getting promulgated as if the problems with the economy are their fault, rather than the fault of rampant soulless capitalists regardless of age.
posted by Peach at 6:19 PM on February 14, 2023 [13 favorites]
What the fuck is going on with that guy's glasses?
Remember Shingy? He was "AOL's Digital Prophet" about a decade ago? It's like Shingy's big spiky hair: the weird glasses are a quirky substitute for insights or a personality.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:19 PM on February 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Remember Shingy? He was "AOL's Digital Prophet" about a decade ago? It's like Shingy's big spiky hair: the weird glasses are a quirky substitute for insights or a personality.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:19 PM on February 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
This guy is literally a character from Haruki Murakami's 2010 novel The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle:
About two years after I married Kumiko, Noboru Wataya published a big, thick book. It was an economics study full of technical jargon, and I couldn’t understand a thing he was trying to say in it. Not one page made sense to me. I tried, but I couldn’t make any headway because I found the writing indecipherable. I couldn’t even tell whether this was because the contents were so difficult or the writing itself was bad. People in the field thought it was great, though. One reviewer declared that it was “an entirely new kind of economics written from an entirely new perspective,” but that was as much as I could understand of the review itself. Soon the mass media began to introduce him as a “hero for a new age.” Whole books appeared, interpreting his book. Two expressions he had coined, “sexual economics” and “excretory economics,” became the year’s buzzwords. Newspapers and magazines carried feature sections on him as one of the intellectuals of the new age. I couldn’t believe that anyone who wrote these articles understood what Noboru Wataya was saying in his book. I had my doubts they had even opened it. But such things were of no concern to them. Noboru Wataya was young and single and smart enough to write a book that nobody could understand.
It made him famous. The magazines all came to him for critical pieces. He appeared on television to comment on political and economic questions. Soon he was a regular panel member on one of the political debate shows. Those who knew Noboru Wataya (including Kumiko and me) had never imagined him to be suited to such glamorous work. Everyone thought of him as the high-strung academic type interested in nothing but his field of specialization. Once he got a taste of the world of mass media, though, you could almost see him licking his chops. He was good. He didn’t mind having a camera pointed at him. If anything, he even seemed more relaxed in front of the cameras than in the real world. We watched his sudden transformation in amazement. The Noboru Wataya we saw on television Wore expensive suits with perfectly matching ties, and eyeglass frames of fine tortoiseshell. His hair had been done in the latest style. He had obviously been worked on by a professional. I had never seen him exuding such luxury before. And even if he had been outfitted by the network, he wore the style with perfect ease, as if he had dressed that way all his life. Who was this man? I wondered, when I first saw him. Where was the real Noboru Wataya?
Emphasis mine.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:22 PM on February 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
About two years after I married Kumiko, Noboru Wataya published a big, thick book. It was an economics study full of technical jargon, and I couldn’t understand a thing he was trying to say in it. Not one page made sense to me. I tried, but I couldn’t make any headway because I found the writing indecipherable. I couldn’t even tell whether this was because the contents were so difficult or the writing itself was bad. People in the field thought it was great, though. One reviewer declared that it was “an entirely new kind of economics written from an entirely new perspective,” but that was as much as I could understand of the review itself. Soon the mass media began to introduce him as a “hero for a new age.” Whole books appeared, interpreting his book. Two expressions he had coined, “sexual economics” and “excretory economics,” became the year’s buzzwords. Newspapers and magazines carried feature sections on him as one of the intellectuals of the new age. I couldn’t believe that anyone who wrote these articles understood what Noboru Wataya was saying in his book. I had my doubts they had even opened it. But such things were of no concern to them. Noboru Wataya was young and single and smart enough to write a book that nobody could understand.
It made him famous. The magazines all came to him for critical pieces. He appeared on television to comment on political and economic questions. Soon he was a regular panel member on one of the political debate shows. Those who knew Noboru Wataya (including Kumiko and me) had never imagined him to be suited to such glamorous work. Everyone thought of him as the high-strung academic type interested in nothing but his field of specialization. Once he got a taste of the world of mass media, though, you could almost see him licking his chops. He was good. He didn’t mind having a camera pointed at him. If anything, he even seemed more relaxed in front of the cameras than in the real world. We watched his sudden transformation in amazement. The Noboru Wataya we saw on television Wore expensive suits with perfectly matching ties, and eyeglass frames of fine tortoiseshell. His hair had been done in the latest style. He had obviously been worked on by a professional. I had never seen him exuding such luxury before. And even if he had been outfitted by the network, he wore the style with perfect ease, as if he had dressed that way all his life. Who was this man? I wondered, when I first saw him. Where was the real Noboru Wataya?
Emphasis mine.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:22 PM on February 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
The thing that's affected me the most, I think, of the last three years of Covid, has been the sudden and stunning degree to which lives seemed to stop mattering. People I work with, people I know in daily life, let alone government officials, talking about how it's okay that people were dying, since (according to news at the time) they were already old or sick. It became totally acceptable to say that it was okay for someone to die because they were old. People felt comfortable saying it was fine if someone died because they had some illness. Life stopped mattering to enough people that it's become normal enough that people can say these things without shame, without being hounded from their positions of power (if they had them) or "polite society" (where obviously these people think those things, but aren't bold enough to actually say them).
And where has it gotten us? Now it's totally fine to be blase about any Covid death as long as people are allowed to live their lives as if there weren't a pandemic. Lawmakers are wearing fucking assault rifle pins while school shootings are happening because a couple dozen deaths here or there are fine as long as people can have their guns. The loss of value of life has been staggering to me, and I feel like I'm going crazy because I'm sure I remember a society that at least paid lip service to the idea that it was right and good to make sure that life was preserved wherever possible. Now, it feels like it's okay if grandma dies, as long as they don't close my local bar again.
And, shit, as far as Japan, the fun news I saw the other day was a proposal to increase taxes on retirement benefits as a way to keep people from retiring. France has had protestors being beaten for demonstrating against raising the retirement age, yet in Japan, I've seen almost nothing else about this, no pushback. It's just work until you die, and like it.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:22 PM on February 14, 2023 [24 favorites]
And where has it gotten us? Now it's totally fine to be blase about any Covid death as long as people are allowed to live their lives as if there weren't a pandemic. Lawmakers are wearing fucking assault rifle pins while school shootings are happening because a couple dozen deaths here or there are fine as long as people can have their guns. The loss of value of life has been staggering to me, and I feel like I'm going crazy because I'm sure I remember a society that at least paid lip service to the idea that it was right and good to make sure that life was preserved wherever possible. Now, it feels like it's okay if grandma dies, as long as they don't close my local bar again.
And, shit, as far as Japan, the fun news I saw the other day was a proposal to increase taxes on retirement benefits as a way to keep people from retiring. France has had protestors being beaten for demonstrating against raising the retirement age, yet in Japan, I've seen almost nothing else about this, no pushback. It's just work until you die, and like it.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:22 PM on February 14, 2023 [24 favorites]
I mean, I try not to blame everything on Republicans, but at a certain point the rhetoric does mean that they will sacrifice everything for The Cause, right? When culture war slips into war slides into Holy War. And after all, it's not like they are really Our Kind of People, are they? Look what They made us do!
posted by Jacen at 6:48 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacen at 6:48 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
France has had protestors being beaten for demonstrating against raising the retirement age, yet in Japan, I've seen almost nothing else about this, no pushback. It's just work until you die, and like it.
We're talking about a culture that has a word - karoshi - for the idea.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:00 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
We're talking about a culture that has a word - karoshi - for the idea.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:00 PM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
If it were an ethnic group, it would be promoting ethnic cleansing.
It absolutely struck me as advocating genocide.
And I don't understand how killing off old people will solve Japan's problems of sexism and xenophobia.
An aging population is a really complicated problem, I get it, but surely we can come up with a better way to fix things than this dumb idea.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:16 PM on February 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
It absolutely struck me as advocating genocide.
And I don't understand how killing off old people will solve Japan's problems of sexism and xenophobia.
An aging population is a really complicated problem, I get it, but surely we can come up with a better way to fix things than this dumb idea.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:16 PM on February 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
People seem to love to talk about the "problem of the elderly" as if it wasn't themselves they're talking about. Or they talk about "boomers" when they mean their problematic uncle or other people whose incompetence is not a factor of their age. This kind of ageism is absolutely the acceptable prejudice of otherwise enlightened folks, who think nothing of saying we should all be shoved into the Villages or their equivalent, and suggesting mass suicide or genocide ends up being said lightly. Sure, many older people lose competence and need support, but then so do people with long COVID, or people who have had strokes, or premature babies.
The crazy making part is that it is mostly old people themselves doing this! American leadership is quite old. Almost all the decision makers are on the exponential increased risk part of the curve. It isn't the under forties pushing for eldercide. It's some of the elders themselves who are in kind supported by the elders who vote for them. Zeke Emanuel is only 10 years out from the age where he is going to abandon trying to live longer (he says but if he were science driven he would know the evidence points overwhelmingly to him changing his mind when the time comes). Part of me thinks that there is a large group of oldsters who just think they are not old and it is other people are old.
I do believe there is a point to be made about the pointless extension of clearly terminal decline and as POA for care for my for my father who is fully senile and now immobile because of advanced Parkinson's it is a choice I uncomfortably have to make for him. Up until just this month it was pretty easy because he was still reasonably physically capable and otherwise healthy and maybe even happier than he has ever been despite or perhaps due to being completely cognitively impaired but that's changed now and the glide path decline is now more of a stall and plunge and the care home called last week asking about religious affiliations so they can get last rites sorted if need be.
My mother made her own choice last year in the end stages of terminal breast cancer thanks to Canada's MAID laws.
These are not great situations but they're still a thousand times better than letting someone who makes trolley dilemmas and thinks in philosophical abstractions decide them or worse yet someone on Joe Biden's pandemic advisory team. My parents were happily retired and doing well on their own right up until around summer 2020. Almost a decade after Zeke would have them give up they were living the retirement THEY FUCKING EARNED. They got to see a granddaughter start university in their city.
(So debate aside get your situation sorted with directives, wills and estate documents and definately get your parent's situations sorted because they WILL fall in your lap before you are ready because nobody is ever really ready).
posted by srboisvert at 7:18 PM on February 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
The crazy making part is that it is mostly old people themselves doing this! American leadership is quite old. Almost all the decision makers are on the exponential increased risk part of the curve. It isn't the under forties pushing for eldercide. It's some of the elders themselves who are in kind supported by the elders who vote for them. Zeke Emanuel is only 10 years out from the age where he is going to abandon trying to live longer (he says but if he were science driven he would know the evidence points overwhelmingly to him changing his mind when the time comes). Part of me thinks that there is a large group of oldsters who just think they are not old and it is other people are old.
I do believe there is a point to be made about the pointless extension of clearly terminal decline and as POA for care for my for my father who is fully senile and now immobile because of advanced Parkinson's it is a choice I uncomfortably have to make for him. Up until just this month it was pretty easy because he was still reasonably physically capable and otherwise healthy and maybe even happier than he has ever been despite or perhaps due to being completely cognitively impaired but that's changed now and the glide path decline is now more of a stall and plunge and the care home called last week asking about religious affiliations so they can get last rites sorted if need be.
My mother made her own choice last year in the end stages of terminal breast cancer thanks to Canada's MAID laws.
These are not great situations but they're still a thousand times better than letting someone who makes trolley dilemmas and thinks in philosophical abstractions decide them or worse yet someone on Joe Biden's pandemic advisory team. My parents were happily retired and doing well on their own right up until around summer 2020. Almost a decade after Zeke would have them give up they were living the retirement THEY FUCKING EARNED. They got to see a granddaughter start university in their city.
(So debate aside get your situation sorted with directives, wills and estate documents and definately get your parent's situations sorted because they WILL fall in your lap before you are ready because nobody is ever really ready).
posted by srboisvert at 7:18 PM on February 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
This person is a troll. This is the sophomore philosophy major asshole who thinks that dabbling in thought experiments about moral taboos is proof of their intellectual superiority. This person was the target market for Hufu when I was an undergrad. What a shameful waste of human potential.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 8:03 PM on February 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 8:03 PM on February 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
I remember watching a documentary on this migratory animal herding family group. Once when they got to a big final river, granny didn't cross with them, she stayed behind. It was normal, the family would cross back over the river next year on their annual migration not expecting to find granny there anymore. People can think differently about punching out early.
posted by zengargoyle at 8:25 PM on February 14, 2023
posted by zengargoyle at 8:25 PM on February 14, 2023
Brings to mind Gov. Lamm of Colorado, he of the Duty to Die comment. The sparks and the fur flew back then, I tell you what. Probably prompted this 2000 book.
posted by BWA at 8:30 PM on February 14, 2023
posted by BWA at 8:30 PM on February 14, 2023
Why not regulate and train volunteers to assist at nursing homes, group homes, hospitals and hospices with some sort of credit type reward system where your donated labor gives you a discount on your own care when you eventually need it? Think of it as frequent flier miles for elderly care.
posted by Beholder at 8:37 PM on February 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Beholder at 8:37 PM on February 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm a Boomer. Women didn't used to be in the workforce - women working outside the home massively expanded the labor pool. Capitalism loves that boost in productivity, but the economy can survive with fewer workers, at least in the US. It is not essential that profits be massive.
If you'd like Boomers to work longer, make decent jobs available. Smart, experienced workers might work part-time, or ask for other flexibility; this does not exist in jobs I'd be willing and competent to do. Nobody wants to work? Nobody wants to be flexible in hiring, pay decently, and see elders as real people with something to offer.
Responsibility to die. Yeah, because in the New Feudalism, your benefit to the economy is all that matters. Mind you, we could divert a fraction of the military budget to taking care of people. Profit would still be made, just in a different sector of the economy, one that doesn't have the slickest lobbyists. Yeah, that's not gonna happen.
posted by theora55 at 9:35 PM on February 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
If you'd like Boomers to work longer, make decent jobs available. Smart, experienced workers might work part-time, or ask for other flexibility; this does not exist in jobs I'd be willing and competent to do. Nobody wants to work? Nobody wants to be flexible in hiring, pay decently, and see elders as real people with something to offer.
Responsibility to die. Yeah, because in the New Feudalism, your benefit to the economy is all that matters. Mind you, we could divert a fraction of the military budget to taking care of people. Profit would still be made, just in a different sector of the economy, one that doesn't have the slickest lobbyists. Yeah, that's not gonna happen.
posted by theora55 at 9:35 PM on February 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
"This stuff terrifies me. I'm 71, productive, healthy, and an essential part of my family. I won a world championships in my age group this past year and beat a 47-year-old in my last tournament."
My parents are 73 and my dad STILL won't retire, he just really loves his job. And he has huge plans for retirement! He wants to go live in France for 6-12 months and speak Duolingo French at long-suffering French people, because he loves France. (My mom is not so into this plan.) The French people he inflicts his terrible French on will all LOVE IT, because literally everyone loves my dad. He still competes in triathlons (wish I had inherited those fitness genes) and jogs every single day, as he has done since he was 14. We honestly don't know what will happen when he retires, we assume he'll probably take up full-time volunteer work to avoid being bored.
My mom retired from teaching at 62, and in the decade since has written and published four novels (cozy mysteries), the last of which came out last week (and I don't know Who Done It yet, I haven't gotten that far!). She also swoops in by airplane to save all of her children from the first few weeks of Having a Newborn, because newborns are exhausting and a non-stop crisis who require an experienced helmsman, especially at first.
I feel like most Americans I know in my age group are suffering from a Lack of Grandparents rather than Too Many Grandparents. And FOR SURE it's exhausting and hard when you have a parent who needs assistance and care. But there are so many current parents who totally need an involved grandparent to low-key watch the kids sometimes and provide perspective and advice and baking skills, and there are grandparent-age people without any nearby family who love kids, and I really wish there was a better connection between the two groups. There are a lot of immigrants in my community who have no grandparents in the country, who would adore to be connected to an older person who maybe didn't have kids, or whose kids live far away, and create a makeshift family that way.
My husband's mother is pretty frail (she's quite a bit older than my parents), and lives far away, although we are trying to move her much closer. My sister-in-law's parents live within five miles of me, though, and they have become our backup local grandparent-type people, because it's just good to have more people in your village. My SIL is Cuban and her mother was born in Cuba, so her grandkids call her Abuela, but they mispronounced it when they were little and turned 'Buela into "Bella," and now all her grandkids and MY kids call her Bella, and she encourages this because she 100% loves it when the small children are like, "Beautiful, Beautiful, look at my drawing!" So my kids have a Grandma, a Gram, and a Bella, and I think they are very lucky!
They also know that aunts are people who are their actual aunts, by blood or marriage, and tías are the people they're not actually related to but it's way too tedious to explain the ins and outs of how big Catholic families are all up in each others' lives. So you have aunts and uncles and cousins; tías and tíos (and Bellas!), who are not your actual aunts and uncles but are important adults; and "relatives," which are all the people who are too hard to explain, like, "my uncle's wife's mother's BFF who's a nun and has been part of our family for 50 years, they went to jail together!" (My uncle's wife's mother's BFF who's a nun left me stuff in her will b/c we knew each other for 40 years and we were tight! They sit in a place of honor in my cabinet of tchotchkes!)
I do feel like basically 98% of these problems could be solved by taxing the rich, though, so we should probably do that.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:55 PM on February 14, 2023 [12 favorites]
My parents are 73 and my dad STILL won't retire, he just really loves his job. And he has huge plans for retirement! He wants to go live in France for 6-12 months and speak Duolingo French at long-suffering French people, because he loves France. (My mom is not so into this plan.) The French people he inflicts his terrible French on will all LOVE IT, because literally everyone loves my dad. He still competes in triathlons (wish I had inherited those fitness genes) and jogs every single day, as he has done since he was 14. We honestly don't know what will happen when he retires, we assume he'll probably take up full-time volunteer work to avoid being bored.
My mom retired from teaching at 62, and in the decade since has written and published four novels (cozy mysteries), the last of which came out last week (and I don't know Who Done It yet, I haven't gotten that far!). She also swoops in by airplane to save all of her children from the first few weeks of Having a Newborn, because newborns are exhausting and a non-stop crisis who require an experienced helmsman, especially at first.
I feel like most Americans I know in my age group are suffering from a Lack of Grandparents rather than Too Many Grandparents. And FOR SURE it's exhausting and hard when you have a parent who needs assistance and care. But there are so many current parents who totally need an involved grandparent to low-key watch the kids sometimes and provide perspective and advice and baking skills, and there are grandparent-age people without any nearby family who love kids, and I really wish there was a better connection between the two groups. There are a lot of immigrants in my community who have no grandparents in the country, who would adore to be connected to an older person who maybe didn't have kids, or whose kids live far away, and create a makeshift family that way.
My husband's mother is pretty frail (she's quite a bit older than my parents), and lives far away, although we are trying to move her much closer. My sister-in-law's parents live within five miles of me, though, and they have become our backup local grandparent-type people, because it's just good to have more people in your village. My SIL is Cuban and her mother was born in Cuba, so her grandkids call her Abuela, but they mispronounced it when they were little and turned 'Buela into "Bella," and now all her grandkids and MY kids call her Bella, and she encourages this because she 100% loves it when the small children are like, "Beautiful, Beautiful, look at my drawing!" So my kids have a Grandma, a Gram, and a Bella, and I think they are very lucky!
They also know that aunts are people who are their actual aunts, by blood or marriage, and tías are the people they're not actually related to but it's way too tedious to explain the ins and outs of how big Catholic families are all up in each others' lives. So you have aunts and uncles and cousins; tías and tíos (and Bellas!), who are not your actual aunts and uncles but are important adults; and "relatives," which are all the people who are too hard to explain, like, "my uncle's wife's mother's BFF who's a nun and has been part of our family for 50 years, they went to jail together!" (My uncle's wife's mother's BFF who's a nun left me stuff in her will b/c we knew each other for 40 years and we were tight! They sit in a place of honor in my cabinet of tchotchkes!)
I do feel like basically 98% of these problems could be solved by taxing the rich, though, so we should probably do that.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:55 PM on February 14, 2023 [12 favorites]
Eyebrows, I love your mom and dad! I am planning to inflict my terrible Duolingo French on the inhabitants of Provence when I visit my brother this summer.
But I've also been thinking that it doesn't matter that much whether, at this age, we're productive and engaged or not. The discourse around "unproductive" members of society regards people as primarily producers of value, when the fact is, due to technological innovation, we are so many of us not actually producers but consumers. The idea of disposing of people in one way or another because they're no longer capable of earning money is based on an unexamined assumption. After all, the ideal market for what the world is selling is so often teenagers, who in most societies exist only to consume. Why not market to the expensive elderly in the same way? What is it about old people that makes us so easy to discard? Don't answer that, I already know.
posted by Peach at 4:59 AM on February 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
But I've also been thinking that it doesn't matter that much whether, at this age, we're productive and engaged or not. The discourse around "unproductive" members of society regards people as primarily producers of value, when the fact is, due to technological innovation, we are so many of us not actually producers but consumers. The idea of disposing of people in one way or another because they're no longer capable of earning money is based on an unexamined assumption. After all, the ideal market for what the world is selling is so often teenagers, who in most societies exist only to consume. Why not market to the expensive elderly in the same way? What is it about old people that makes us so easy to discard? Don't answer that, I already know.
posted by Peach at 4:59 AM on February 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
Mind you, we could divert a fraction of the military budget to taking care of people.
US military budget is about 800 billion. CBO projections for major (excluding lots of miscellaneous programs) US govt spending on healthcare 2022, about 1.46 trillion.* (That's without private spending, for which add a few more trillion.)
Not that I disagree with cutting back on the military, far from it, but it's not as if healthcare is starving for money, not in the US at last. Hell, the CBO also projects that near future spending will exceed that 800 bill in another five years.
That's a whole lot of vested interests. I have no answers. Well, not any nice answers.
*2019, i.e. pre-Covid, it was 1.2 trillion
posted by BWA at 5:05 AM on February 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
US military budget is about 800 billion. CBO projections for major (excluding lots of miscellaneous programs) US govt spending on healthcare 2022, about 1.46 trillion.* (That's without private spending, for which add a few more trillion.)
Not that I disagree with cutting back on the military, far from it, but it's not as if healthcare is starving for money, not in the US at last. Hell, the CBO also projects that near future spending will exceed that 800 bill in another five years.
That's a whole lot of vested interests. I have no answers. Well, not any nice answers.
*2019, i.e. pre-Covid, it was 1.2 trillion
posted by BWA at 5:05 AM on February 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
This reminds me of the idea that it's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism
I think the discussion around cost/benefit for medical interventions for seniors is at some point bound to end up at denial of care because as things stand their care is an expense that is only going to increase with the number of seniors still being alive. But if Facebook and Google can be trillion dollar companies based on collecting people's personal information then there is some re-imagining of value that can transform medical care from an expense generator to a wealth one that is not simply hospitals and care homes extracting everything they can from their patients before letting them die. Dude is an economics professor at Yale, maybe he should get on that instead.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:08 PM on February 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think the discussion around cost/benefit for medical interventions for seniors is at some point bound to end up at denial of care because as things stand their care is an expense that is only going to increase with the number of seniors still being alive. But if Facebook and Google can be trillion dollar companies based on collecting people's personal information then there is some re-imagining of value that can transform medical care from an expense generator to a wealth one that is not simply hospitals and care homes extracting everything they can from their patients before letting them die. Dude is an economics professor at Yale, maybe he should get on that instead.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:08 PM on February 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
transform medical care from an expense generator to a wealth one
From the distant, (psychopathic?) economics of a society with limits on resources view, that's already kinda been solved for.
But you won't hear a lot of discussion about "we should take some/much/all of the resources dedicated to people over 80, and redirect them to people under 8".
That changes things from an expense preserving the present, to an investment in a healthier more prosperous future population. But geriatric care gets money that pediatrics doesn't, because old people have money and votes, while malnourished toddlers have neither.
Also because people will put you in the 'people don't die like they used to' crowd. The ones who explain modern problems with primitivism. Societal issue X arises when you don't kill off 30% of the population with agricultural accidents and/or swords anymore; Nature used to maintain a balance but now there's too much clean drinking water and not enough tigers; etc. etc.
You can't go around telling people that for ten thousand years, when people got too old to eat, they used to just die.
That's unacceptable.
posted by bartleby at 1:53 PM on February 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
From the distant, (psychopathic?) economics of a society with limits on resources view, that's already kinda been solved for.
But you won't hear a lot of discussion about "we should take some/much/all of the resources dedicated to people over 80, and redirect them to people under 8".
That changes things from an expense preserving the present, to an investment in a healthier more prosperous future population. But geriatric care gets money that pediatrics doesn't, because old people have money and votes, while malnourished toddlers have neither.
Also because people will put you in the 'people don't die like they used to' crowd. The ones who explain modern problems with primitivism. Societal issue X arises when you don't kill off 30% of the population with agricultural accidents and/or swords anymore; Nature used to maintain a balance but now there's too much clean drinking water and not enough tigers; etc. etc.
You can't go around telling people that for ten thousand years, when people got too old to eat, they used to just die.
That's unacceptable.
posted by bartleby at 1:53 PM on February 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
Given how this recent thread went, making suicide available seems a lot more humane than a lot of the current options:
dying at home is often unattainable
posted by MrVisible at 6:31 PM on February 15, 2023
dying at home is often unattainable
posted by MrVisible at 6:31 PM on February 15, 2023
If you're political economy is bound by "immigration is bad" and "decreasing population is bad" and "a stable or shrinking economy is bad" and "rediatribution of wealth is bad"
Instead of : "habitat loss is bad", " poverty is bad" "inequality is bad" being coerced by the state or society to give birth is bad" " making young nuclear families shoulder the burdens of parenthood alone is bad" "making young parents work outside the home is bad" etc...etc.
Well, Growth at all costs is suicide. It destroys people and our lifesupport system.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 9:03 AM on February 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Instead of : "habitat loss is bad", " poverty is bad" "inequality is bad" being coerced by the state or society to give birth is bad" " making young nuclear families shoulder the burdens of parenthood alone is bad" "making young parents work outside the home is bad" etc...etc.
Well, Growth at all costs is suicide. It destroys people and our lifesupport system.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 9:03 AM on February 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Alternative headline
Yale economist proposes that Japan treat its elderly like America treats -children, homeless people, ethnic minorities, the disabled, those without healthcare, the immunocompromised, anyone who wants to protect themselves from covid, the mentally ill, those in the throws of addiction, undocumented workers, the poor and yes, the elderly.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 9:04 AM on February 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yale economist proposes that Japan treat its elderly like America treats -children, homeless people, ethnic minorities, the disabled, those without healthcare, the immunocompromised, anyone who wants to protect themselves from covid, the mentally ill, those in the throws of addiction, undocumented workers, the poor and yes, the elderly.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 9:04 AM on February 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Let me be more explicit. Japan and other boxes on the map with decreasing population are worried about demographics because the ratio of workers to total pop is changing. Either the workers must be taxed more (and thus live on less) or the non-workers must live on less, or the number of workers increases, the number of non-workera decreased, or the productivity/efficiency of the work being done increased.
What this economist has said in essense is that technology won't make a big enough difference, that killing old people is better than raising taxes. That killing old people is better than bringing in immigrants, that killing old people is better than redistributing wealth to keep the minimum standard of care high.
So, he's a republican
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 9:10 AM on February 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
What this economist has said in essense is that technology won't make a big enough difference, that killing old people is better than raising taxes. That killing old people is better than bringing in immigrants, that killing old people is better than redistributing wealth to keep the minimum standard of care high.
So, he's a republican
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 9:10 AM on February 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
What the fuck is going on with that guy's glasses?
Remember Shingy? He was "AOL's Digital Prophet" about a decade ago?
No actually you have to go back two decades, to that Transmetropolitan comic book that was so popular. The glasses are from Spider although this Dr.Narita isn't cool enough to wear the 3D version.
posted by Rash at 2:09 PM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Remember Shingy? He was "AOL's Digital Prophet" about a decade ago?
No actually you have to go back two decades, to that Transmetropolitan comic book that was so popular. The glasses are from Spider although this Dr.Narita isn't cool enough to wear the 3D version.
posted by Rash at 2:09 PM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
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