A DNA test revealed the CEO is my half brother …
March 3, 2023 10:34 PM Subscribe
Ask a Manager has a live one: My dad gave the whole family DNA ancestry kits for the holidays, and it turns out the CEO of the company I work for is my half-brother....About a week after I got my results, an email went out from the head of HR stating that all staff had to take a refresher training on nepotism. The training also included a new clause that said something like “staff are not entitled to privileges personal or professional if familial relation by genes or marriage to executive or management staff is known or unknown or discovered during employment.”
And an update:
Things were quiet for a week until a major project I was working on was deleted from the company drive....After a mid-month project meeting where I showed up with all my work on a USB drive HR pulled me in because “an anonymous concern” was raised about me “hiding” my work from my colleagues and tried to write me up.....I was walking through the lobby when HR literally ambushed me and loudly fired me in front of a client and like twenty of my colleagues. Security escorted me out in front of my friends and colleagues who had no idea what was happening so that was pretty dark and humiliating...read the full piece for the happy? ending.
And an update:
Things were quiet for a week until a major project I was working on was deleted from the company drive....After a mid-month project meeting where I showed up with all my work on a USB drive HR pulled me in because “an anonymous concern” was raised about me “hiding” my work from my colleagues and tried to write me up.....I was walking through the lobby when HR literally ambushed me and loudly fired me in front of a client and like twenty of my colleagues. Security escorted me out in front of my friends and colleagues who had no idea what was happening so that was pretty dark and humiliating...read the full piece for the happy? ending.
I often read the extreme Ask a Manager entries and wonder how much of them is fiction, but this is the first time I've thought it was way too weird to be fiction...
posted by mmoncur at 11:31 PM on March 3, 2023 [27 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 11:31 PM on March 3, 2023 [27 favorites]
It's easy to focus on the bad actors in situations like these. Usually, the only reason we hear about them is because of the people fighting the good fight on the other end: the employee here, who didn't give up easily, wrote to AMA in the first place, and cleverly started saving their work separately to avoid just having things disappear - that's awesome. Their family, who didn't freak out. The anti-genetic-discrimination law, which doubtless many people worked very hard to pass (even if that law wasn't directly relevant, it helped set a tone of 'no you can't just do that to people' which makes a huge difference).
But here's a great quote from the comments:
"I actually really needed to hear about Katie [the asker's direct manager] today because I’m fighting my senior management over a policy that I feel is unintentionally punishing my direct report for a life circumstance she can’t do anything about. If she can do this much for OP, taking a meeting with my CEO to explain my concerns about a policy that wasn’t intended to drive my report out but might end up having that effect is small potatoes."
This highlight's Katie's role, and also lets us know that the commenter is fighting hard, too, to keep things good, and to protect another employee.
Yay people.
posted by amtho at 11:33 PM on March 3, 2023 [58 favorites]
But here's a great quote from the comments:
"I actually really needed to hear about Katie [the asker's direct manager] today because I’m fighting my senior management over a policy that I feel is unintentionally punishing my direct report for a life circumstance she can’t do anything about. If she can do this much for OP, taking a meeting with my CEO to explain my concerns about a policy that wasn’t intended to drive my report out but might end up having that effect is small potatoes."
This highlight's Katie's role, and also lets us know that the commenter is fighting hard, too, to keep things good, and to protect another employee.
Yay people.
posted by amtho at 11:33 PM on March 3, 2023 [58 favorites]
I enjoyed when they started using "CEBro." Even if they only meant as in "my brother the CEO" everything that happened screams like a "bro" move.
posted by LostInUbe at 11:44 PM on March 3, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by LostInUbe at 11:44 PM on March 3, 2023 [20 favorites]
Note to self: Do not buy ancestry kits for the family for the holidays.
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 11:56 PM on March 3, 2023 [57 favorites]
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 11:56 PM on March 3, 2023 [57 favorites]
Why would anyone give their children ancestry kits? Like having wasted your money is the absolute best possible outcome there
posted by doiheartwentyone at 12:56 AM on March 4, 2023 [58 favorites]
posted by doiheartwentyone at 12:56 AM on March 4, 2023 [58 favorites]
Note to self: Do not buy ancestry kits for the family for the holidays.
Sis did a DNA test, which turned up nothing remarkable aside from letting us know that we were a hell of a lot whiter than we thought. One thing that was warned about a couple of times when getting the report was that you may not like what you find, or you may find things you aren’t emotionally prepared to learn. I see *zero* upside to these test kits, and the potential downside is deep.
posted by azpenguin at 3:22 AM on March 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Sis did a DNA test, which turned up nothing remarkable aside from letting us know that we were a hell of a lot whiter than we thought. One thing that was warned about a couple of times when getting the report was that you may not like what you find, or you may find things you aren’t emotionally prepared to learn. I see *zero* upside to these test kits, and the potential downside is deep.
posted by azpenguin at 3:22 AM on March 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Punishments are not always met to the guilty.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:31 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:31 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
I see *zero* upside to these test kits, and the potential downside is deep.
Likewise. Once I get more than three or four generations back, I’m a little hazy about some branches of the family. Gratifying my curiosity would be fine, but I also can readily envision a decade from now some insurance company sending my premiums into the stratosphere because I have a genetic predisposition for some condition or other that will never surface, but it could.
That aside, though — about five years ago, I was inviting some friends along for a board game afternoon. My longtime friend John asked, “Do you mind if I bring my brother along?”
I’ve known John since primary school in the seventies, and he is an only child. After a half-second pause, I said, “Please do.”
An ancestry kit had revealed a few months earlier that he had an older half-brother. John broke the news to his — well, their — dad; the old man initially scoffed: “It’s just a scam. The guy is looking to get money out of you!”
“No, dad, this is straight-up science, and verified. There is upwards of 99.98% chance he and I are half-siblings.”
His father still refused to believe this. “Who does this guy say his mother is?” John supplied the name. His father started to remonstrate further but got no further than opening his mouth. “Ah... oh. Hrm.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:20 AM on March 4, 2023 [82 favorites]
Likewise. Once I get more than three or four generations back, I’m a little hazy about some branches of the family. Gratifying my curiosity would be fine, but I also can readily envision a decade from now some insurance company sending my premiums into the stratosphere because I have a genetic predisposition for some condition or other that will never surface, but it could.
That aside, though — about five years ago, I was inviting some friends along for a board game afternoon. My longtime friend John asked, “Do you mind if I bring my brother along?”
I’ve known John since primary school in the seventies, and he is an only child. After a half-second pause, I said, “Please do.”
An ancestry kit had revealed a few months earlier that he had an older half-brother. John broke the news to his — well, their — dad; the old man initially scoffed: “It’s just a scam. The guy is looking to get money out of you!”
“No, dad, this is straight-up science, and verified. There is upwards of 99.98% chance he and I are half-siblings.”
His father still refused to believe this. “Who does this guy say his mother is?” John supplied the name. His father started to remonstrate further but got no further than opening his mouth. “Ah... oh. Hrm.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:20 AM on March 4, 2023 [82 favorites]
I love Ask a Manager so much, for the reasons amtho mentions - there are lessons and level headed thinking (even if it’s only in Alison’s response) in every crazy situation. It has really pulled me through a hellish year at work where I took a promotion that maybe I wasn’t emotionally ready for.
As an aside about DNA tests, while I’ve always been concerned about privacy, both my parents have done one and been very pleased. Dad loves to noodle around with history, so he has a lot of fun with the built in tools and updates. And Mom? Well, she was orphaned at the age of 11. She had an older half brother from whom she was estranged for about 15 years, and when they reconciled they promised to always stay close and really followed through. But she’s always had such a strong longing for family. Doing her DNA test helped her find and connect with distant cousins, and she took an inspired trip to her father’s home island to do more research and meet some of them. It has been an important experience for her.
posted by Isingthebodyelectric at 5:50 AM on March 4, 2023 [26 favorites]
As an aside about DNA tests, while I’ve always been concerned about privacy, both my parents have done one and been very pleased. Dad loves to noodle around with history, so he has a lot of fun with the built in tools and updates. And Mom? Well, she was orphaned at the age of 11. She had an older half brother from whom she was estranged for about 15 years, and when they reconciled they promised to always stay close and really followed through. But she’s always had such a strong longing for family. Doing her DNA test helped her find and connect with distant cousins, and she took an inspired trip to her father’s home island to do more research and meet some of them. It has been an important experience for her.
posted by Isingthebodyelectric at 5:50 AM on March 4, 2023 [26 favorites]
I see *zero* upside to these test kits, and the potential downside is deep.
Your DNA test could send a relative to jail. These DNA kits - and the absolutely massive DNA and ancestral databases they go into - freak me out - not in a “got something to hide?” way - but just we have absolutely no way to know how DNA will be used in the future and it will be near impossible now to put that data back in the bottle.
I have never taken one. But know it only takes another family member to take one to effectively be in there depending on how close a relation to you they are
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:12 AM on March 4, 2023 [19 favorites]
Your DNA test could send a relative to jail. These DNA kits - and the absolutely massive DNA and ancestral databases they go into - freak me out - not in a “got something to hide?” way - but just we have absolutely no way to know how DNA will be used in the future and it will be near impossible now to put that data back in the bottle.
I have never taken one. But know it only takes another family member to take one to effectively be in there depending on how close a relation to you they are
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:12 AM on March 4, 2023 [19 favorites]
The r/genealogy subreddit calls these NPEs -- novel paternity events -- and they occur more than weekly.
I must confess that they are businesslike (and not leering) about it...but, after this long, maybe not as gentle as I think they could be.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:13 AM on March 4, 2023
I must confess that they are businesslike (and not leering) about it...but, after this long, maybe not as gentle as I think they could be.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:13 AM on March 4, 2023
But for families with little or no history, it must be reeeeeeeally tempting to want connections to other people and back through the past.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:14 AM on March 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 6:14 AM on March 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
There definitely is an upside to some of these genetic testing kits. My 23 and me results led to diagnosis of and effective treatment for a debilitating illness that doctors had dismissed as “anxious lady problems/hypochondria” for more than a decade.
But the abuse and privacy concerns are real- I deleted my data from 23andMe and really really really hope they actually deleted it.
posted by congen at 6:25 AM on March 4, 2023 [19 favorites]
But the abuse and privacy concerns are real- I deleted my data from 23andMe and really really really hope they actually deleted it.
posted by congen at 6:25 AM on March 4, 2023 [19 favorites]
This was a big popcorn hit in my groupchat with friends who are also AAM readers.
After a lot of years of wondering about a question of genetic identity, and a fair amount of anxiety about putting my DNA in a database, I finally took the plunge before Christmas to try to solve the mystery of who my biological paternal grandfather was, out of two potential candidates. It turned out to be the second candidate (not the guy who raised my dad, but the person whose name was on my dad's baptismal certificate), which I found out via a DNA match consistent with a half-aunt relationship with a woman I'd never heard of before, whose father was my bio grandfather.
I've had some contact with her husband, who's a genealogy nerd and manages her profile, but understandably it's a much bigger surprise for them (who had no idea my dad ever existed, and now get to find out the three full siblings on that side had a half brother who's already dead) than it is for me, as I've known the guy I knew as my grandad probably wasn't my bio grandad since 2015 or so, when we were cleaning out my grandma's house after she died and found the papers in the attic stating he'd adopted my dad after marrying my grandma when my dad was four years old.
Mine is a comparatively simple example of uncovering information that was previously just a family rumour via DNA testing. I know someone who never gelled with his family, found out in his late 20s that he was donor conceived, and now has a network of around 30 half siblings all of whom have a ton of stuff in common, down to a similar cognitive style (most of them are engineers, the one of them I know is a musician but on the mathsy end of music) and no longer has much contact with the family who raised him. I had no idea how unregulated the donor conception industry is until I started following the work of Laura High, a comedian and advocate for more regulation in the reproductive industry (seriously, the sheer amount of doctors who sub in their own genetic material in place of the donor material the recipients chose is both huge and disgusting).
I still feel kind of weird on some level about pursuing testing to satisfy my own curiosity, although I don't have any regrets about doing it because it gave me the answer to a question I wouldn't have been able to figure out any other way for the low price of £70 and a vial of my own saliva. I was concerned about setting off a bomb in someone else's family tree - though friends managed to convince me that the people who planted the bomb were my grandma and bio grandfather when they chose to have sex in 1957. But neither of them had any idea that consumer DNA testing would become available within two generations, mere years after the end of their lives.
Still, I'm super glad the only real consequence of doing this for me was finding out that I have a bunch of half cousins in Scotland who may or may not ever want to meet me (I'm leaving that ball entirely in their court), and that there was no risk of me getting fired over spitting in a tube.
posted by terretu at 6:29 AM on March 4, 2023 [11 favorites]
After a lot of years of wondering about a question of genetic identity, and a fair amount of anxiety about putting my DNA in a database, I finally took the plunge before Christmas to try to solve the mystery of who my biological paternal grandfather was, out of two potential candidates. It turned out to be the second candidate (not the guy who raised my dad, but the person whose name was on my dad's baptismal certificate), which I found out via a DNA match consistent with a half-aunt relationship with a woman I'd never heard of before, whose father was my bio grandfather.
I've had some contact with her husband, who's a genealogy nerd and manages her profile, but understandably it's a much bigger surprise for them (who had no idea my dad ever existed, and now get to find out the three full siblings on that side had a half brother who's already dead) than it is for me, as I've known the guy I knew as my grandad probably wasn't my bio grandad since 2015 or so, when we were cleaning out my grandma's house after she died and found the papers in the attic stating he'd adopted my dad after marrying my grandma when my dad was four years old.
Mine is a comparatively simple example of uncovering information that was previously just a family rumour via DNA testing. I know someone who never gelled with his family, found out in his late 20s that he was donor conceived, and now has a network of around 30 half siblings all of whom have a ton of stuff in common, down to a similar cognitive style (most of them are engineers, the one of them I know is a musician but on the mathsy end of music) and no longer has much contact with the family who raised him. I had no idea how unregulated the donor conception industry is until I started following the work of Laura High, a comedian and advocate for more regulation in the reproductive industry (seriously, the sheer amount of doctors who sub in their own genetic material in place of the donor material the recipients chose is both huge and disgusting).
I still feel kind of weird on some level about pursuing testing to satisfy my own curiosity, although I don't have any regrets about doing it because it gave me the answer to a question I wouldn't have been able to figure out any other way for the low price of £70 and a vial of my own saliva. I was concerned about setting off a bomb in someone else's family tree - though friends managed to convince me that the people who planted the bomb were my grandma and bio grandfather when they chose to have sex in 1957. But neither of them had any idea that consumer DNA testing would become available within two generations, mere years after the end of their lives.
Still, I'm super glad the only real consequence of doing this for me was finding out that I have a bunch of half cousins in Scotland who may or may not ever want to meet me (I'm leaving that ball entirely in their court), and that there was no risk of me getting fired over spitting in a tube.
posted by terretu at 6:29 AM on March 4, 2023 [11 favorites]
"As a family we decided to support Dad and just drop it because we didn’t ask for the complete Jerry Springer package, we just wanted to know what part of Ireland Grandma was from."
LOL... I feel this...I've done DNA testing to try to find out more about my grandfather, who appears to have fallen from the sky the day he married my grandmother, but it's virtually certain that at some point this will result in a surprise for someone. My plan is to ignore it...let's hope they're not my boss.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:40 AM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
LOL... I feel this...I've done DNA testing to try to find out more about my grandfather, who appears to have fallen from the sky the day he married my grandmother, but it's virtually certain that at some point this will result in a surprise for someone. My plan is to ignore it...let's hope they're not my boss.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:40 AM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
My dad wanted to get my brother and I test kits for Christmas one year after he had done one. My brother accepted. I didn't. I figured since my brother did it whatever information they gave him would be mostly the same as me. And the info he got pretty much matched up with what we thought so it's not like anything new was discovered. I'm still not going to do it though.
posted by downtohisturtles at 6:42 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by downtohisturtles at 6:42 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry but this is the fakest fake post that ever faked.
posted by Stoof at 6:57 AM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Stoof at 6:57 AM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
The company and CEO are easily identifiable from the details provided, so if it’s a lie than it is a rather libelous one.
posted by mbrubeck at 7:03 AM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 7:03 AM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
I share some skepticism about the whole story. The big picture of finding out you are related to the CEO, sure, despite being vanishingly rare it must happen sometimes, but all of the weirdness with HR and computer systems seems less convincing and I'm not really buying the full story as presented.
I've avoided doing one of these tests. I'm not really sure why not, but something about it doesn't quite sit right with me. I guess I just don't really want to know what surprises would be in there. I have mixed feelings about how the databases have been used to catch a few murderers. On the one hand, it's great that this was able to bring closure to some families who have wondered who was the killer for decades. On the other hand, people didn't submit their DNA anticipating that it would be used in that way, and it feels like a major slippery slope subject where sure, since catching a murderer is always a good thing, the door is then open to using the databases to track down other sorts of people, too.
My spouse did one, and very unsurprisingly there were several new half-uncles and -aunts who turned up. The patriarch of that generation was a player and some of the scattered half-siblings were already known, but it turns out there were even more out there. At this level of remove it is just a funny story about a long-dead philandering dude, but we have been careful to not mention it to anyone of that generation since there are a lot of raw feelings about that guy and his actions even now, many decades later. If anyone of that generation wants to know, they can get a test themselves.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:05 AM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've avoided doing one of these tests. I'm not really sure why not, but something about it doesn't quite sit right with me. I guess I just don't really want to know what surprises would be in there. I have mixed feelings about how the databases have been used to catch a few murderers. On the one hand, it's great that this was able to bring closure to some families who have wondered who was the killer for decades. On the other hand, people didn't submit their DNA anticipating that it would be used in that way, and it feels like a major slippery slope subject where sure, since catching a murderer is always a good thing, the door is then open to using the databases to track down other sorts of people, too.
My spouse did one, and very unsurprisingly there were several new half-uncles and -aunts who turned up. The patriarch of that generation was a player and some of the scattered half-siblings were already known, but it turns out there were even more out there. At this level of remove it is just a funny story about a long-dead philandering dude, but we have been careful to not mention it to anyone of that generation since there are a lot of raw feelings about that guy and his actions even now, many decades later. If anyone of that generation wants to know, they can get a test themselves.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:05 AM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
The company and CEO are easily identifiable
I would have no clue how to identify it.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:18 AM on March 4, 2023 [15 favorites]
I would have no clue how to identify it.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:18 AM on March 4, 2023 [15 favorites]
AAM and other agony-aunt type sites (including the advice subreddits) are inundated with fake, outlandish posts that drive engagement and push culture wars bs. "Mean, irrational HR" is a typical trope. These stories feed the hundreds of podcasts and youtube channels who cover them as if they're real. (They will LOVE "CEBro.") You can spot the fakes by the outlandish coincidences and behaviour of the characters involved, all crafted to make you feel outraged. The OP is usually passive and bemused, unless they're playing the villain.
"I found out my CEO is my half-brother! That's kinda weird!" is not nearly as exciting as "I found out my CEO is my half-brother! And then he told everyone in leadership, including my boss, that we were secret siblings, and enacted a policy to have me fired! And then the crazy HR goblins screamed at me and tried to sabotage my work remotely for weeks! But then after months of valiantly and silently enduring this injustice I decided to communicate, just the one time, which led to me passively winning! Wild!"
posted by Stoof at 7:21 AM on March 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
"I found out my CEO is my half-brother! That's kinda weird!" is not nearly as exciting as "I found out my CEO is my half-brother! And then he told everyone in leadership, including my boss, that we were secret siblings, and enacted a policy to have me fired! And then the crazy HR goblins screamed at me and tried to sabotage my work remotely for weeks! But then after months of valiantly and silently enduring this injustice I decided to communicate, just the one time, which led to me passively winning! Wild!"
posted by Stoof at 7:21 AM on March 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
My understanding of AAM is that Greene does generally do some corroboration on the back end before publishing, especially the more outlandish stories. She doesn't just take everything at face value.
And that said, the question posed by the Letter Writer was a worthy one, given the discussion upthread. This shit is real, it matters, and it might matter in the work context, even if not in as dramatic a way as in the AAM post.
posted by suelac at 7:47 AM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
And that said, the question posed by the Letter Writer was a worthy one, given the discussion upthread. This shit is real, it matters, and it might matter in the work context, even if not in as dramatic a way as in the AAM post.
posted by suelac at 7:47 AM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
Stoof, that's why I don't understand why they're often reprinted in other media without any investigation or caveats. Also am I the only one that found it bizarre that the letter writer felt no need to ask further questions of his father that may explain why CEBro is so upset?
posted by Selena777 at 7:48 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Selena777 at 7:48 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
For those interested in the outcome, but not interested enough to read the article, OP and CEBro were both put on suspension (OP was paid) while the owners & their lawyers did some investigating. After that, OP was unfired, but they chose to take a generous severance package instead. CEBro did not return after the suspension. OP learned that CEBro was long-time acquaintances with the HR folks and this may have been led to some collusion to get OP fired when the familial relationship was initially revealed.
posted by darkstar at 8:13 AM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 8:13 AM on March 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
My take on AAM is that it doesn’t really matter if the stories are real or not- they’re effectively modern morality plays. (Alison is Equity. Capitalism is the Devil.) In this (possibly hypothetical) workplace situation, how should you act? What should we judge as right and wrong?
posted by zamboni at 8:19 AM on March 4, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 8:19 AM on March 4, 2023 [15 favorites]
The company and CEO are easily identifiable from the details provided, so if it’s a lie than it is a rather libelous one.Actually, I retract this. On second thought, the one company I found that matches the details could be just a coincidence, especially if the actual offenders (assuming they exist) have already hidden or modified their web site / social media.
posted by mbrubeck at 8:20 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
But for families with little or no history, it must be reeeeeeeally tempting to want connections to other people and back through the past.
That's a really good point. Because of the unsettling overtones of my data being owned by a corporation–with unknown, possibly creepy implications for the future–I've never felt nearly enough interest chancing that to get tested. The only thing DNA testing could bring me at this point–beyond the chance for family drama if something unexpected were revealed within the past generation or so–would be a shrug and "Huh. Neat."
BUT! My own family's history was charted out decades ago by interested members, and we've had the extraordinary good luck of being able to run it back well into the 17th century when we arrived in the Americas, and a bit further. And both my parent's surnames are incredibly site-specific, down to me knowing just which tiny villages in Northumbria and outside Glasgow they started in.
It doesn't have any impact on my day-to-day life, but man does knowledge like that give you a sense of your family over time. For anyone with the least interest in modern history it's a really nice thing to be able to know where your ancestors more or less were during events, and wonder how they saw the ones in which they themselves were swept up. Sure the trail gets fuzzy after the 1680s or so, but at that remove, so what? Do I really need to track back to the 12th century when my surname is first recorded? I feel I can be fairly certain that the five hundred years between the late 1100's and the late 1600s where our genealogy picks up the trail they were most likely chilling in a few square miles of countryside. Hell, if they weren't hanging out around there I wouldn't even have these names in my genealogy.
I can only imagine how tempting it would be for someone lacking that background knowledge. It's been there most my life and I've always been able to take it for granted. Not everyone has that privilege and I can fully understand the yearning to feel that connection to your family and its history.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:26 AM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
That's a really good point. Because of the unsettling overtones of my data being owned by a corporation–with unknown, possibly creepy implications for the future–I've never felt nearly enough interest chancing that to get tested. The only thing DNA testing could bring me at this point–beyond the chance for family drama if something unexpected were revealed within the past generation or so–would be a shrug and "Huh. Neat."
BUT! My own family's history was charted out decades ago by interested members, and we've had the extraordinary good luck of being able to run it back well into the 17th century when we arrived in the Americas, and a bit further. And both my parent's surnames are incredibly site-specific, down to me knowing just which tiny villages in Northumbria and outside Glasgow they started in.
It doesn't have any impact on my day-to-day life, but man does knowledge like that give you a sense of your family over time. For anyone with the least interest in modern history it's a really nice thing to be able to know where your ancestors more or less were during events, and wonder how they saw the ones in which they themselves were swept up. Sure the trail gets fuzzy after the 1680s or so, but at that remove, so what? Do I really need to track back to the 12th century when my surname is first recorded? I feel I can be fairly certain that the five hundred years between the late 1100's and the late 1600s where our genealogy picks up the trail they were most likely chilling in a few square miles of countryside. Hell, if they weren't hanging out around there I wouldn't even have these names in my genealogy.
I can only imagine how tempting it would be for someone lacking that background knowledge. It's been there most my life and I've always been able to take it for granted. Not everyone has that privilege and I can fully understand the yearning to feel that connection to your family and its history.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:26 AM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
I see *zero* upside to these test kits, and the potential downside is deep.
I mean I’m just gonna wait til a cousin gets convicted of a felony and get it done for free.
posted by Hypatia at 9:06 AM on March 4, 2023 [15 favorites]
I mean I’m just gonna wait til a cousin gets convicted of a felony and get it done for free.
posted by Hypatia at 9:06 AM on March 4, 2023 [15 favorites]
Stoof, that's why I don't understand why they're often reprinted in other media without any investigation or caveats.
They're free content that drive engagement and/or increase profits. Like, how many of us clicked over to AAM because we wanted to read the tale of evil CEBro? Just a quick Google search brought up tons of media outlets running stories like, "‘Call Me Grandma In Bed’: The Most Outrageous Stories On Reddit’s Am I The Asshole?" and "The Best 'Am I the a--Hole' Posts That Made Us All Feel Better" and "23 Workplace Horror Stories That'll Make You Say, 'WTAF'"
posted by Stoof at 9:13 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
They're free content that drive engagement and/or increase profits. Like, how many of us clicked over to AAM because we wanted to read the tale of evil CEBro? Just a quick Google search brought up tons of media outlets running stories like, "‘Call Me Grandma In Bed’: The Most Outrageous Stories On Reddit’s Am I The Asshole?" and "The Best 'Am I the a--Hole' Posts That Made Us All Feel Better" and "23 Workplace Horror Stories That'll Make You Say, 'WTAF'"
posted by Stoof at 9:13 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
It’s been remarked, but genealogy is often far too close to eugenics for my comfort.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:26 AM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 9:26 AM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
This story was so juicy I blabbed it last night to people who don't read AAM.
My aunt handed out DNA tests one Christmas season. I did it because I was curious to see if I did have any secret siblings or any interesting drama coming up (not that my dad was the type), I could use some replacement relations since most of my dad's side of the family never liked me, and once my aunt and cousins did it, my genetic privacy was already gone and too late now.
It so far has been very anti-climatic. I have something like 600 fourth cousins, no secret sibling. I note that one relative was named "Joshua Jackson" (probably not the actor) and another was named the same thing as my mom's boyfriend, who presumably has not done AncestryDNA and said it wasn't him. Literally only ONE person has cropped up with my last name out of 600+ fourth cousins, which probably proves that the male side of Dad's gene pool crapped out early (my dad dying at 60 was the most long-lived we ever heard of).
However, at Thanksgiving my cousin did tell me she got contacted by some rando who might be a secret sibling....except the cousin he was possibly descended from is like the least likely person to sperminate out of wedlock ever. Never did hear anything more about this one, darn it, which makes me think it probably came to naught.
Anyway, back to the story, it's flabbergasting how CEBro just LOST HIS SHIT about the whole thing. Literally if he'd just let it go and not said anything, OP would have also not said a damn thing! Instead CEBro literally framed them to fire them and had them fired in the worst way possible. That's fucking MALICE. If CEBro is so mad, go to your mother about it, not someone you met like ONCE. Daaaaaaaaaaaaamn.
I think CEBro may win for worst boss this year, unless someone writes to AAM about Elon again.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:31 AM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
My aunt handed out DNA tests one Christmas season. I did it because I was curious to see if I did have any secret siblings or any interesting drama coming up (not that my dad was the type), I could use some replacement relations since most of my dad's side of the family never liked me, and once my aunt and cousins did it, my genetic privacy was already gone and too late now.
It so far has been very anti-climatic. I have something like 600 fourth cousins, no secret sibling. I note that one relative was named "Joshua Jackson" (probably not the actor) and another was named the same thing as my mom's boyfriend, who presumably has not done AncestryDNA and said it wasn't him. Literally only ONE person has cropped up with my last name out of 600+ fourth cousins, which probably proves that the male side of Dad's gene pool crapped out early (my dad dying at 60 was the most long-lived we ever heard of).
However, at Thanksgiving my cousin did tell me she got contacted by some rando who might be a secret sibling....except the cousin he was possibly descended from is like the least likely person to sperminate out of wedlock ever. Never did hear anything more about this one, darn it, which makes me think it probably came to naught.
Anyway, back to the story, it's flabbergasting how CEBro just LOST HIS SHIT about the whole thing. Literally if he'd just let it go and not said anything, OP would have also not said a damn thing! Instead CEBro literally framed them to fire them and had them fired in the worst way possible. That's fucking MALICE. If CEBro is so mad, go to your mother about it, not someone you met like ONCE. Daaaaaaaaaaaaamn.
I think CEBro may win for worst boss this year, unless someone writes to AAM about Elon again.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:31 AM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I may be a bit dense, but how would the CEO get the results of the DNA test ?
posted by Pendragon at 9:38 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Pendragon at 9:38 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
OP learned that CEBro was long-time acquaintances with the HR folks and this may have been led to some collusion to get OP fired when the familial relationship was initially revealed.
I really kind of wish the person hadn't taken the severance and went into a GINA-type lawsuit against the company, just to smoke out the rest of the people that pulled this crap. But maybe in the end it's better to take the cash and walk away...AND no pesky settlement NDA to block you from telling the story.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:38 AM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
I really kind of wish the person hadn't taken the severance and went into a GINA-type lawsuit against the company, just to smoke out the rest of the people that pulled this crap. But maybe in the end it's better to take the cash and walk away...AND no pesky settlement NDA to block you from telling the story.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:38 AM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
I may be a bit dense, but how would the CEO get the results of the DNA test?
I assume the same way the poster supposedly did (being shown this connection by the ancestry site)?
I don’t know exactly how this works from any personal experience, though - I’m actually pretty interested but I also just don’t want the data out there.
posted by atoxyl at 9:53 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
I assume the same way the poster supposedly did (being shown this connection by the ancestry site)?
I don’t know exactly how this works from any personal experience, though - I’m actually pretty interested but I also just don’t want the data out there.
posted by atoxyl at 9:53 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
The company and CEO are easily identifiable from the details provided, so if it’s a lie than it is a rather libelous one.
I would have no clue how to identify it.
The first clue that occurred to me to follow to try to identify it, Google is already autocompleting with “[phrase] ceo” (which also leads back to the AAM post). But it’s only really identifying if you assume nobody did any obfuscation around a not-uncommon statement.
posted by atoxyl at 10:04 AM on March 4, 2023
I would have no clue how to identify it.
The first clue that occurred to me to follow to try to identify it, Google is already autocompleting with “[phrase] ceo” (which also leads back to the AAM post). But it’s only really identifying if you assume nobody did any obfuscation around a not-uncommon statement.
posted by atoxyl at 10:04 AM on March 4, 2023
I've always been skeptical of these tests too, but my sister had to take some for some medical diagnosis thing which confirmed suspensions we had. And now we know that my female relatives need to be aware of Ashkenazi-associated cancer genes.
On a perhaps more interesting note an aunt who's into the whole genealogy thing solved a family mystery about my great-great grandfather who was an early homesteader out west where I grew up. We knew he took his name from a tombstone and told variations on an origin story that never matched up. Turns out he was born a slave, the oldest child of his creole slave mother and presumably a white father, and went out west where he "passed". So now my aunt has contact with the descendents of his younger siblings throughout the south, which is interesting.
posted by St. Oops at 10:12 AM on March 4, 2023 [23 favorites]
On a perhaps more interesting note an aunt who's into the whole genealogy thing solved a family mystery about my great-great grandfather who was an early homesteader out west where I grew up. We knew he took his name from a tombstone and told variations on an origin story that never matched up. Turns out he was born a slave, the oldest child of his creole slave mother and presumably a white father, and went out west where he "passed". So now my aunt has contact with the descendents of his younger siblings throughout the south, which is interesting.
posted by St. Oops at 10:12 AM on March 4, 2023 [23 favorites]
I may be a bit dense, but how would the CEO get the results of the DNA test ?
Alison wrote back to ask for clarification of a few details in the first linked article, and the letter writer said,
"The DNA test has an app, and you get notifications regularly via email and I think push notifications on your phone if you opt-in. I have no way of knowing what he opted into, so I assumed he didn’t know until the weird training."
posted by creepygirl at 10:30 AM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Alison wrote back to ask for clarification of a few details in the first linked article, and the letter writer said,
"The DNA test has an app, and you get notifications regularly via email and I think push notifications on your phone if you opt-in. I have no way of knowing what he opted into, so I assumed he didn’t know until the weird training."
posted by creepygirl at 10:30 AM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
My family did DNA tests (via Ancestry) and found out that the story my dad had sort of heard and repeated to us that his father who raised him wasn't his father ended up being the truth: the same family kept showing up in the DNA results and using Ancestry's research tools I was able to determine not only who the guy was, but also that he was my dad's parents' neighbour, of all people. Shortly after my father was conceived, the family moved a ways away from there, which I now wonder if this was the reason for.
It gets somewhat weirder, too: my dad had three siblings and we know for certain that one of these two is the child of the guy who raised my dad, but from my first cousin once removed's results, it seems like my dad's brother, who was born three years before my dad, might also be the same guy's kid. My uncle is still alive and doesn't want to know, but he agreed to a DNA test that I will manage and we won't tell him the results. I'm looking forward to finding out.
Otherwise, my family thinks it's kind of funny; to us, the guy who raised my dad, whether or not he was his biological father, was his dad, full stop. However, I do feel bad for the family who discovered that they had a half uncle they didn't know about (and maybe two!). My bio on Ancestry reads "Taking up the mantle of my genealogy-obsessed father, who is still alive but living with early-onset frontal-lobe dementia and, thanks to the magic of DNA tests, finding out all sorts of well-kept and not-so-well-kept family secrets about my father's parentage and his mother's parentage in the process. I'm sorry if you have found out this way that I'm part of your family! I'm surprised too."
My dad's mother was also an illegitimate child and was adopted, so Ancestry tests are helping me piece that together too. I don't have a conclusive family tree, but I at least know what family she was connected to on her father's side, though her mother's side seems to have produced a dead end. Maybe I'll find out more one day. As my Ancestry profile mentions, my dad has early-onset frontal-lobe dementia, which his sister had too (she was 10 years older and died this past June after living in a care home for 10 years; my dad has been in a home since June 2020), as well as his mother. It would be interesting to see if I can figure out where that comes from, since it seems pretty conclusively hereditary.
posted by urbanlenny at 10:34 AM on March 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
It gets somewhat weirder, too: my dad had three siblings and we know for certain that one of these two is the child of the guy who raised my dad, but from my first cousin once removed's results, it seems like my dad's brother, who was born three years before my dad, might also be the same guy's kid. My uncle is still alive and doesn't want to know, but he agreed to a DNA test that I will manage and we won't tell him the results. I'm looking forward to finding out.
Otherwise, my family thinks it's kind of funny; to us, the guy who raised my dad, whether or not he was his biological father, was his dad, full stop. However, I do feel bad for the family who discovered that they had a half uncle they didn't know about (and maybe two!). My bio on Ancestry reads "Taking up the mantle of my genealogy-obsessed father, who is still alive but living with early-onset frontal-lobe dementia and, thanks to the magic of DNA tests, finding out all sorts of well-kept and not-so-well-kept family secrets about my father's parentage and his mother's parentage in the process. I'm sorry if you have found out this way that I'm part of your family! I'm surprised too."
My dad's mother was also an illegitimate child and was adopted, so Ancestry tests are helping me piece that together too. I don't have a conclusive family tree, but I at least know what family she was connected to on her father's side, though her mother's side seems to have produced a dead end. Maybe I'll find out more one day. As my Ancestry profile mentions, my dad has early-onset frontal-lobe dementia, which his sister had too (she was 10 years older and died this past June after living in a care home for 10 years; my dad has been in a home since June 2020), as well as his mother. It would be interesting to see if I can figure out where that comes from, since it seems pretty conclusively hereditary.
posted by urbanlenny at 10:34 AM on March 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
Apparently 23andMe has a version that's disease-marker only, no ancestry or trait data. I found this by combing the FSA Store looking for things to buy with my unused end-of-year funds.
I suppose this version was made just to qualify as a "medical expense" in the eyes of the IRS. If you read the comments most of the buyers weren't aware of this nuance. But I'd be curious to know if it gets into the same databases that got other people in trouble.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:48 AM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
I suppose this version was made just to qualify as a "medical expense" in the eyes of the IRS. If you read the comments most of the buyers weren't aware of this nuance. But I'd be curious to know if it gets into the same databases that got other people in trouble.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:48 AM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
hey they gotta share their late capitalist office water cooler fanfic somewhere
posted by Gymnopedist at 10:56 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Gymnopedist at 10:56 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Your DNA test could send a relative to jail.
I made my mom promise not to get one because of this kind of concern, but then she turned around and did it anyway (real mature, mom!).
What leaps out to me about this story is that the DNA testing company immediately blew up this guy's life by telling the CEO he had a half-brother working for him. It's by design and I'm sure you agree to it when you sign up for the service. Getting connected to unknown relatives is part of the reason people sign up in the first place, and the network of other people's DNA is a big part of the value in these firms. Still, I think this story shows that the whole idea is kind of creepy and dangerous.
posted by grobstein at 11:16 AM on March 4, 2023
I made my mom promise not to get one because of this kind of concern, but then she turned around and did it anyway (real mature, mom!).
What leaps out to me about this story is that the DNA testing company immediately blew up this guy's life by telling the CEO he had a half-brother working for him. It's by design and I'm sure you agree to it when you sign up for the service. Getting connected to unknown relatives is part of the reason people sign up in the first place, and the network of other people's DNA is a big part of the value in these firms. Still, I think this story shows that the whole idea is kind of creepy and dangerous.
posted by grobstein at 11:16 AM on March 4, 2023
Our story may be unusual, but good things really can come of these DNA tests. My dad was adopted in the 50's as an infant and grew up as an only child. He took an Ancestry test a few years ago hoping to determine his ethnic background, turns out he is 100% Irish. Also turns out he is the oldest of a total of 10 half siblings! He has since connected with those on his maternal side and they have become quite close. We found out they had searched for him years ago after learning about his existence from an aunt after their mother's passing. They had even hired a private detective at the time but had no luck due to the closed adoption records. Until these tests came along there really was no possibility that they would have discovered each other.
He has also connected with some half-siblings on his paternal side, though that is understandably a bit stickier as their mother is still living and unaware of his existence. After the initial shock of discovery, everyone has been very welcoming and it's been a joy to see him gain such an extensive family as his adoptive parents both passed very young so he really didn't have any remaining family for most of my lifetime. I know these stories of unexpected family don't always have a happy ending, but I'm glad that ours did.
posted by platinum at 11:18 AM on March 4, 2023 [38 favorites]
He has also connected with some half-siblings on his paternal side, though that is understandably a bit stickier as their mother is still living and unaware of his existence. After the initial shock of discovery, everyone has been very welcoming and it's been a joy to see him gain such an extensive family as his adoptive parents both passed very young so he really didn't have any remaining family for most of my lifetime. I know these stories of unexpected family don't always have a happy ending, but I'm glad that ours did.
posted by platinum at 11:18 AM on March 4, 2023 [38 favorites]
Yeah my mom's father was adopted and I'm sure she was hoping to learn more about that side of her family background, which otherwise just cuts off there. But so far no big news. (He was born in like 1920, so his bio-parents are almost surely dead, and any siblings etc. are probably not so hot themselves.)
posted by grobstein at 11:51 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by grobstein at 11:51 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Put me in the "don't want to know" column too -- I don't think anything good can come from knowing that my siblings or grandfather or great-grandmother slept around.
See, if let's say someone finds out they're a half uncle or part-sibling or unknown cousin and want to connect, they're expecting emotional labor from me that I'm not prepared to give.
It may not be a scam to get money or anything, but it is an unwanted expectation of me to behave a certain way, and they're going to be disappointed by my disinterest and possible antagonism towards wanting to be included in my family. It may make me sound like I'm an un-fun grump but finding surprise relatives isn't high on my list of things to do.
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:03 PM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
See, if let's say someone finds out they're a half uncle or part-sibling or unknown cousin and want to connect, they're expecting emotional labor from me that I'm not prepared to give.
It may not be a scam to get money or anything, but it is an unwanted expectation of me to behave a certain way, and they're going to be disappointed by my disinterest and possible antagonism towards wanting to be included in my family. It may make me sound like I'm an un-fun grump but finding surprise relatives isn't high on my list of things to do.
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:03 PM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
When my sister got cancer, they did a DNA test, and it turned out that we have a huge risk of cancer. It also turned out that we have a whole family we didn't know about. Well, actually, I had heard about them, but forgot. To be honest, I don't care a bit. We talked about it and realized that it might have been interesting if anyone alive remembered what had happened back when my great granddad had an affair, but now it wasn't relevant.
I have a 23andme thing that I have not sent back, I don't know why. I bought it because my dad was into genealogy and claimed that I was more Jewish than I thought I was, and I wanted to test it. (My mum is adopted into a Jewish family).
posted by mumimor at 12:13 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have a 23andme thing that I have not sent back, I don't know why. I bought it because my dad was into genealogy and claimed that I was more Jewish than I thought I was, and I wanted to test it. (My mum is adopted into a Jewish family).
posted by mumimor at 12:13 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
It should also be said that sometimes this kind of thing doesn't even need a DNA test to come out: I once discovered my friend had a half-uncle that no one in the family knew about, using only publicly-available birth databases and then confirmed it with what I had access to through the Ancestry databases with a basic membership. It took me about five minutes to do this.
Luckily she also has a good sense of humour about it/doesn't care, but she will never tell her mother who WILL definitely care and also discourage her from ever doing a DNA test like this.
posted by urbanlenny at 12:47 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Luckily she also has a good sense of humour about it/doesn't care, but she will never tell her mother who WILL definitely care and also discourage her from ever doing a DNA test like this.
posted by urbanlenny at 12:47 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
A friend found out she was donor conceived from one of these tests.
I haven't taken one but my parents and sister have so I figure it doesn't make a huge difference to my own genetic privacy whether I take one or not. My dad's family had long suspected that their mom was descended from Ashkenazi Jews and their family had hidden it when they came to the US. There's no evidence of that in our genes, though, so a cherished family belief was laid to rest. Ah well. The big upshot for us was "good luck avoiding dementia!" which, uh, sucks to know, frankly.
posted by potrzebie at 1:06 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I haven't taken one but my parents and sister have so I figure it doesn't make a huge difference to my own genetic privacy whether I take one or not. My dad's family had long suspected that their mom was descended from Ashkenazi Jews and their family had hidden it when they came to the US. There's no evidence of that in our genes, though, so a cherished family belief was laid to rest. Ah well. The big upshot for us was "good luck avoiding dementia!" which, uh, sucks to know, frankly.
posted by potrzebie at 1:06 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
My cousin has done these and discovered she had several half-siblings via her dad, an unexpected player. More surprising is that my mother's siblings were all actually half-siblings...my mom was the only child of the man married to her mother. Her younger sister and older brother each have different fathers. The presumption is that her father never knew, but obviously none of us was inside their relationship.
I've never done a test, not being all that curious about my ancestry (I've always been vaguely uncomfortable around folks who, for example, claim they're "Swedish" or whatever despite their family having been in the states since the 1800s) and I know I'm not going to discover I'm the secret heir to a vast fortune or other good news, but more likely somehow party to a debt incurred during the 1300s, or related to a republican or something equally hideous.
posted by maxwelton at 1:09 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've never done a test, not being all that curious about my ancestry (I've always been vaguely uncomfortable around folks who, for example, claim they're "Swedish" or whatever despite their family having been in the states since the 1800s) and I know I'm not going to discover I'm the secret heir to a vast fortune or other good news, but more likely somehow party to a debt incurred during the 1300s, or related to a republican or something equally hideous.
posted by maxwelton at 1:09 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Note to self: Do not buy ancestry kits for the family for the holidays.
A few years ago that's exactly what I did. I was thinking of a DNA test for myself, but Christmas was coming up and I thought why don't I get one for each of my parents? That's actually better than getting one for myself.
So I got them the kits. They are curious and sent in their spit and wait. Six weeks go by, I haven't heard from them. Then a few months. Then even more. But when I asked about the results they were pretty vague. By summer I went home and could see the results myself. Dad kind of hand-waved and said "Oh, they're in a drawer somewhere," and I had to dig through some paperwork to find the documents. My parents were being very strange and dismissive about the whole thing.
So I look at the results. It's a bit complicated (and boring), but the short version is that both of my parents, as it turns out, have a majority of their ancestry from, basically, Britain. Mom's was something like 85%. But this goes against their respective family histories passed down over the generations, which claims French and German and Russian ancestry (obviously a little different for each of them, but again I'm trying not to bore with those details). So they were pretty disappointed, I think, that the truth of DNA didn't match up with the narrative of their ancestry they'd heard their whole lives.
posted by zardoz at 1:15 PM on March 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
A few years ago that's exactly what I did. I was thinking of a DNA test for myself, but Christmas was coming up and I thought why don't I get one for each of my parents? That's actually better than getting one for myself.
So I got them the kits. They are curious and sent in their spit and wait. Six weeks go by, I haven't heard from them. Then a few months. Then even more. But when I asked about the results they were pretty vague. By summer I went home and could see the results myself. Dad kind of hand-waved and said "Oh, they're in a drawer somewhere," and I had to dig through some paperwork to find the documents. My parents were being very strange and dismissive about the whole thing.
So I look at the results. It's a bit complicated (and boring), but the short version is that both of my parents, as it turns out, have a majority of their ancestry from, basically, Britain. Mom's was something like 85%. But this goes against their respective family histories passed down over the generations, which claims French and German and Russian ancestry (obviously a little different for each of them, but again I'm trying not to bore with those details). So they were pretty disappointed, I think, that the truth of DNA didn't match up with the narrative of their ancestry they'd heard their whole lives.
posted by zardoz at 1:15 PM on March 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
My Dad was a known player and that is exactly why I do not want to do this, and I don't think any of my (full) siblings want to know either.
posted by maggiemaggie at 3:14 PM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by maggiemaggie at 3:14 PM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
A friend found out she was donor conceived from one of these tests.
Likewise, with the amusing (to me) detail that the kit was a Christmas gift from his parents. Or, you know, who he thought were his parents, at least. They neglected to mention that minor detail during the gift exchange.
posted by kevinbelt at 3:59 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Likewise, with the amusing (to me) detail that the kit was a Christmas gift from his parents. Or, you know, who he thought were his parents, at least. They neglected to mention that minor detail during the gift exchange.
posted by kevinbelt at 3:59 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Were they trying to tell him or had they kind of forgotten?
posted by clew at 4:08 PM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by clew at 4:08 PM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
I don't actually care whether this story is true or made up but it strikes me as extremely implausible that the CEO told the Asker's boss about the DNA test results. Everything else about this story is well written and weird enough that I thought it must be true! But this bit keeps niggling at me. I can't make it make sense. Why would CEO tell *anyone*? Maybe I'm naive but CEOs can just send decrees from on high ordering a department or team or person to take nepotism training right? No explanation needed? Gah.
Not that it matters, really. These stories are modern day Aesop's fables or.. dang idk what this genre is called, where a dilemma or puzzle is placed before a wise person who provides a surprising or insightful answer? In western canon I guess there's the story of Solomon deciding who gets the baby, but in Indian storytelling traditions there's Akbar-Birbal stories where these nominally real historical figures play Watson and Sherlock almost, or Wooster and Jeeves perhaps. Birbal the smart and canny minister, Akbar the king who relies on Birbal to solve his courtly problems.
posted by MiraK at 4:15 PM on March 4, 2023
Not that it matters, really. These stories are modern day Aesop's fables or.. dang idk what this genre is called, where a dilemma or puzzle is placed before a wise person who provides a surprising or insightful answer? In western canon I guess there's the story of Solomon deciding who gets the baby, but in Indian storytelling traditions there's Akbar-Birbal stories where these nominally real historical figures play Watson and Sherlock almost, or Wooster and Jeeves perhaps. Birbal the smart and canny minister, Akbar the king who relies on Birbal to solve his courtly problems.
posted by MiraK at 4:15 PM on March 4, 2023
The prevailing theory is that they were very subtly trying to show solidarity with his sister, who herself had just used a donor to conceive. But I can also see how they could look at everyone validating the sister’s choice and think that a time when the whole family was vocally pro-donor was maybe the best time to let it out indirectly.
posted by kevinbelt at 4:31 PM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kevinbelt at 4:31 PM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Were they trying to tell him or had they kind of forgotten?
It’s also possible that the dad’s semen was mixed with known “good” semen (possibly without his knowledge, even). This used to be fairly common — it was seen as a way to maintain deniability for infertile men.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 5:21 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
It’s also possible that the dad’s semen was mixed with known “good” semen (possibly without his knowledge, even). This used to be fairly common — it was seen as a way to maintain deniability for infertile men.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 5:21 PM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Someone close to me who is adopted literally connected with a half sister yesterday via DNA matching. She took it well, though she had not known about him (though it turns out her father, now deceased, had dropped a very oblique hint about sometimes discovering things via DNA.) Among other things, he now has some very important health info., including that biodad had colon cancer. He now has less blanks to leave on those forms the doctor always has you fill out. So, I get why some people aren't interested, or worry about the uses DNA testing is put to, but I feel it has a place.
I've done it too, for genealogy reasons, and found out some interesting things, including that I have way more Spanish ancestry than I realized, and that though my father's surname is English and we know the family emigrated from England around 1800, a male ancestor way way back was not English, because Dad's Y DNA tracks to the Middle East. (Also, personally, if one of my relatives did commit some horrible crime, I'm happy to contribute to that person being caught.)
posted by gudrun at 9:06 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've done it too, for genealogy reasons, and found out some interesting things, including that I have way more Spanish ancestry than I realized, and that though my father's surname is English and we know the family emigrated from England around 1800, a male ancestor way way back was not English, because Dad's Y DNA tracks to the Middle East. (Also, personally, if one of my relatives did commit some horrible crime, I'm happy to contribute to that person being caught.)
posted by gudrun at 9:06 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Shades of the rivalry between subreddits r/ThatHappened and r/NothingEverHappens.
posted by Harald74 at 12:38 AM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Harald74 at 12:38 AM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
My Dad was a known player and that is exactly why I do not want to do this, and I don't think any of my (full) siblings want to know either.
I'm not certain whether it's an advantage or a disadvantage, but having been adopted I can say for certain that taking a DNA test will not reveal anything about the sexual habits of the people that raised me.
Given the laws of the state I was born in allow for me to get the records if I so desire, there's not much a DNA could do for me, so I've never bothered. I'm just not that curious and I'm definitely not interested in opening the potential can of worms that is other people's expectations which will certainly go unfulfilled were they to come into existence.
Now, if my sister were to take a test that could lead to much amusement given Dad's well deserved reputation. The bomb-throwing troll of a teen I used to be would absolutely love to stir up some shit and witness the fallout. Drama among people who take themselves way too seriously and should just get the fuck over it because it's not their circus is like catnip to that guy. I don't think sis would be as amused as I would be, though. Thus, I won't be suggesting she get a 23andme kit any time soon.
I guess it would be hilarious if we ended up being biological half-siblings as someone who I can't remember once suggested wouldn't surprise them, but the chance of that is pretty small given where I was born and that Dad spent all his life within a few hundred miles of his own birthplace except for that one vacation when I was 6 or 7.
posted by wierdo at 2:39 AM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm not certain whether it's an advantage or a disadvantage, but having been adopted I can say for certain that taking a DNA test will not reveal anything about the sexual habits of the people that raised me.
Given the laws of the state I was born in allow for me to get the records if I so desire, there's not much a DNA could do for me, so I've never bothered. I'm just not that curious and I'm definitely not interested in opening the potential can of worms that is other people's expectations which will certainly go unfulfilled were they to come into existence.
Now, if my sister were to take a test that could lead to much amusement given Dad's well deserved reputation. The bomb-throwing troll of a teen I used to be would absolutely love to stir up some shit and witness the fallout. Drama among people who take themselves way too seriously and should just get the fuck over it because it's not their circus is like catnip to that guy. I don't think sis would be as amused as I would be, though. Thus, I won't be suggesting she get a 23andme kit any time soon.
I guess it would be hilarious if we ended up being biological half-siblings as someone who I can't remember once suggested wouldn't surprise them, but the chance of that is pretty small given where I was born and that Dad spent all his life within a few hundred miles of his own birthplace except for that one vacation when I was 6 or 7.
posted by wierdo at 2:39 AM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
I had no idea how unregulated the donor conception industry is until I started following the work of Laura High, a comedian and advocate for more regulation in the reproductive industry (seriously, the sheer amount of doctors who sub in their own genetic material in place of the donor material the recipients chose is both huge and disgusting).
This phenomenon even inspired a 1992 Saturday Night Live sketch. It was inspired by the case of a real life fertility doctor who did this named Cecil Jacobson. The sketch is called "My 75 Kids," and Jacobson is played by John Goodman. Dr. Jacobson's "punishment" in the sketch was to be in a sitcom spoof of "My Three Sons" where he had to raise all 75 of his kids. The sketch even comes with a theme song: "He's a sperm doctor, a doctor of sperm."
You definitely can't find clips of this on YouTube, but archive.org has the entire SNL episode that contains the sketch (just skip to about 14:30 into the episode if you really want to see it). This doesn't necessarily come up in the "cancel culture" debate, but I think an under-discussed form of quasi-censorship is how huge IP-owning corporations will just try to cringey content that doesn't date well under the rug, even though cringey-ness is exactly why it's amazing as all-but-forgotten social history. Now if only I could find that SNL sketch with "Peter Sarsgaard brand SARS guards" that is now totally relevant again in the age of COVID masks...
posted by jonp72 at 9:38 AM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
This phenomenon even inspired a 1992 Saturday Night Live sketch. It was inspired by the case of a real life fertility doctor who did this named Cecil Jacobson. The sketch is called "My 75 Kids," and Jacobson is played by John Goodman. Dr. Jacobson's "punishment" in the sketch was to be in a sitcom spoof of "My Three Sons" where he had to raise all 75 of his kids. The sketch even comes with a theme song: "He's a sperm doctor, a doctor of sperm."
You definitely can't find clips of this on YouTube, but archive.org has the entire SNL episode that contains the sketch (just skip to about 14:30 into the episode if you really want to see it). This doesn't necessarily come up in the "cancel culture" debate, but I think an under-discussed form of quasi-censorship is how huge IP-owning corporations will just try to cringey content that doesn't date well under the rug, even though cringey-ness is exactly why it's amazing as all-but-forgotten social history. Now if only I could find that SNL sketch with "Peter Sarsgaard brand SARS guards" that is now totally relevant again in the age of COVID masks...
posted by jonp72 at 9:38 AM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don't actually care whether this story is true or made up but it strikes me as extremely implausible that the CEO told the Asker's boss about the DNA test results. Everything else about this story is well written and weird enough that I thought it must be true! But this bit keeps niggling at me. I can't make it make sense. Why would CEO tell *anyone*? Maybe I'm naive but CEOs can just send decrees from on high ordering a department or team or person to take nepotism training right? No explanation needed? Gah.
The article said there were two close friends of the CEO working in HR. The CEO may have mentioned it to one of his friends (or his friend found out independently), and it is the HR-CEO friend who is overreacting. That strikes me as plausible.
posted by jonp72 at 9:42 AM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
The article said there were two close friends of the CEO working in HR. The CEO may have mentioned it to one of his friends (or his friend found out independently), and it is the HR-CEO friend who is overreacting. That strikes me as plausible.
posted by jonp72 at 9:42 AM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
I certainly know a number of senior people whose preferred management modality is a state of artificially induced panic. It's not helpful, but they must earn at least three times what I do, so they're officially right.
posted by Grangousier at 12:33 PM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 12:33 PM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
When my mother started doing genealogy, I asked with some trepidation if we were related--at least, very distantly--to a [now-deceased, very right-wing, thought Oswald Mosley was good for the Jews] Jewish politician from England. My paternal grandmother's family shares a last name with him, and as far as we have been able to trace, every person with some variant of that name traces to one (huge) family in one village from Russia. Moreover, our known English cousins are from the same family. However, I was promptly informed that my cousins had actually written to ask him, he had said no, and the professional genealogist in that family was quite firm that "we are not related to THAT MAN." Anyway, said genealogist took a DNA test and promptly had a "damn it!" moment. Because, alas, yes we are. Still, he is very distant...
posted by thomas j wise at 12:44 PM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by thomas j wise at 12:44 PM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
I guess one thing these DNA tests does is confirm absolutely that at least some of your relatives are arseholes. Sucks when one of them turns out to be your boss, but it could have been worse I guess.
I am going to do one sooner rather than later. I've taken over my mother's genealogy work and I think the DNA test would be an asset in helping me avoid accepting possible connections as fact based on too little information.
posted by dg at 4:14 PM on March 5, 2023
I am going to do one sooner rather than later. I've taken over my mother's genealogy work and I think the DNA test would be an asset in helping me avoid accepting possible connections as fact based on too little information.
posted by dg at 4:14 PM on March 5, 2023
Also am I the only one that found it bizarre that the letter writer felt no need to ask further questions of his father that may explain why CEBro is so upset?
In one of the articles the letter writer said that they did talk to his dad about it, the LW didn't share too many details but long story short Dad was being set up as an unwitting donor for a childless couple.
I've done a few of those DNA tests largely because I've had a long-standing belief from childhood that I was supposed to be a twin but have absolutely no evidence (asides from randomly befriending people that turn out to be twins, or the one case where my bestie told me he was supposed to be a twin and then - without knowing ANYTHING about my twin complex at the time - said "oh yeah, you were supposed to be a twin too right?" HOW DO THEY KNOWWWW). Alas I have not found any secret siblings, just a pile of potential distant cousins and the occasional cousin/niece/nephew that I know about. I was also curious about whether I had exotic ancestry, and at first it was like 5% Siberian 10% Chinese etc etc whatever but as more and more data has been uploaded, I am now just 100% Bangladeshi which feels a bit like a buzzkill lol
posted by creatrixtiara at 8:31 PM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
In one of the articles the letter writer said that they did talk to his dad about it, the LW didn't share too many details but long story short Dad was being set up as an unwitting donor for a childless couple.
I've done a few of those DNA tests largely because I've had a long-standing belief from childhood that I was supposed to be a twin but have absolutely no evidence (asides from randomly befriending people that turn out to be twins, or the one case where my bestie told me he was supposed to be a twin and then - without knowing ANYTHING about my twin complex at the time - said "oh yeah, you were supposed to be a twin too right?" HOW DO THEY KNOWWWW). Alas I have not found any secret siblings, just a pile of potential distant cousins and the occasional cousin/niece/nephew that I know about. I was also curious about whether I had exotic ancestry, and at first it was like 5% Siberian 10% Chinese etc etc whatever but as more and more data has been uploaded, I am now just 100% Bangladeshi which feels a bit like a buzzkill lol
posted by creatrixtiara at 8:31 PM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
My sister had a test done, and we discovered 4 siblings, my father was a scumbag (not news to us). It's nice having new siblings though we're from a large and fairly close step family. she managed to talk me into having it done as well. We haven't discovered anymore siblings, but did discover some interesting historical information. I enjoyed it for that. I stand by my assertion (despite my sisters claims of family nobility) that we come from a long line of ass stabbers and sheep thieves.
Also who would have thought the CEO of a corporation could be a slimy fuck?! I mean, Elon, Jeff, and friends, all seems so upstanding.
posted by evilDoug at 9:18 PM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
Also who would have thought the CEO of a corporation could be a slimy fuck?! I mean, Elon, Jeff, and friends, all seems so upstanding.
posted by evilDoug at 9:18 PM on March 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
the main thing that makes me skeptical of this story is mentioning the HR Nepotism Training module took a full day, as I can't imagine coming up with that many hours of material on that one topic.
and that there was no mention of involving IT/cybersecurity when things started disappearing off the team drive and an employee suspected their computer was being remotely accessed.
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:18 AM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
and that there was no mention of involving IT/cybersecurity when things started disappearing off the team drive and an employee suspected their computer was being remotely accessed.
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:18 AM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
the main thing that makes me skeptical of this story is mentioning the HR Nepotism Training module took a full day, as I can't imagine coming up with that many hours of material on that one topic.
Where I work, nepotism is folded into an overall ethics training, along with things like bribery. Even if it was made into its own training, it would be the same length as the regular ethics training, about an hour or so.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:11 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Where I work, nepotism is folded into an overall ethics training, along with things like bribery. Even if it was made into its own training, it would be the same length as the regular ethics training, about an hour or so.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:11 AM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
So, uhh, yeah I totally get the sentiment. And I don't really think I'd like to have been given such a gift either. You know what though? I really would have liked to have had parents who'd have considered it though.
Why would anyone give their children ancestry kits? Like having wasted your money is the absolute best possible outcome there
posted by doiheartwentyone at 12:56 AM on March 4
I'm not just adopted but adopted in a very special fuck-you-and-your-spawn-we're-hanging-on-to-a-genocide-no-matter-what-the-law-says kind of way. In a "let's make it illegal to search for, or have disclosed to you, a family history" kind of way. A "hahaha! they made us open up records but it turns out most of the are lost! Or destroyed! Or just plain fabricated!
So maybe figuring out that I didn't just look different than they did (or the brothers that came shortly thereafter) but was also lactose intolerant (yup! It's a real thing mom!), has a weird seizure disorder (yup, tends to be hard to diagnosis and can run in families), and a bunch of other things that might be worth having a little attention paid to.
The epilepsy alone (oh and abdominal migraines that couldn't possibly exist and I should just buck up) has had a huge impact on my life. And I've probably always had it. And I didn't get diagnosed until my mid twenties when, in retrospect, it explains so many things from my childhood that no one ever gave enough of a damn to wonder if they were related. Or, y'know, important.
I get it - parenting is hard. And they aren't unkind... just not particularly adventurous thinkers. But those things have had a profound effect on me and if any of this was possible/available 40 years ago it's possible that early intervention and treatment might made very very differences for me.
So yes, I do get the sentiment, but no everyone has the luxury of knowing who their genetic contributors are/were. What they brought to the table. Sometimes these are good things to know - over and above the issues of racism, human rights, and concerted extermination efforts.
It might be nice to have a family tree with a few leaves on it - rather than the rough sketch of some branchings worked out by archeologists instead of genealogists.
posted by mce at 2:46 PM on March 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
the main thing that makes me skeptical of this story is mentioning the HR Nepotism Training module took a full day, as I can't imagine coming up with that many hours of material on that one topic.
If the nepotism training was written by the CEBro's HR bros on the fly, then I could definitely see the training being poorly written & capable of wasting a day of people's time.
posted by jonp72 at 7:45 PM on March 7, 2023
If the nepotism training was written by the CEBro's HR bros on the fly, then I could definitely see the training being poorly written & capable of wasting a day of people's time.
posted by jonp72 at 7:45 PM on March 7, 2023
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