Both kinds of music
March 11, 2023 3:21 AM Subscribe
Soccer loving, Hardcore listening, Dutch actual socialist politician Peter Kwint thinks he knows his way around the most American of music genres. Here are his 500 best songs from a Century of Country and Western for y'all to (dis)agree with.
Same - that’s not a browser thing, it’s a Spotify thing, though. Having a spotify account is required, and there don’t seem to be any work-around, to my knowledge. Is there just a list of the songs anywhere? A post that only links to a membership-only resource is maybe not the best for an fpp.
posted by eviemath at 4:43 AM on March 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 4:43 AM on March 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
What a fun project! Of course a list like this can never be definitive but this is certainly a respectable pass. Seems to veer between ”hits” and “influencers”. The “influencers” side needs more Gram Parsons IMO, and how about a Blaze Foley song, maybe “Clay Pigeons”?
The bluegrass branch seems to stick to the basics, which is fine, but no Del McCoury? No Tony Rice? Doc Watson? Norman Blake?
There are so many micro-narratives within here. I love the multiple versions of “Blue Moon of Kentucky” (Bill Monroe, Patsy Cline, Elvis) but including Gillian Welch’s “Elvis Presley Blues” as a topper would have been :chef-kiss:
posted by bgribble at 4:56 AM on March 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
The bluegrass branch seems to stick to the basics, which is fine, but no Del McCoury? No Tony Rice? Doc Watson? Norman Blake?
There are so many micro-narratives within here. I love the multiple versions of “Blue Moon of Kentucky” (Bill Monroe, Patsy Cline, Elvis) but including Gillian Welch’s “Elvis Presley Blues” as a topper would have been :chef-kiss:
posted by bgribble at 4:56 AM on March 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I appreciate the list, it's a good list, and obviously a lot of thought went into it, but a couple things stood out to me:
John Lee Hooker and Sister Rosetta Thorpe are on that list, which I don't know, that's a questionable choice. And like, I'm the last person to downplay black musicians contributions country music (or really to any American art form). In fact I think there's a good argument to be made that Country music has helped serve to disguise black artists' influence so white audiences can enjoy the fruits without having to think about who planted the tree. It's just I don't think either of them would consider themselves country or western and including them on the list seems kind of more in line with that laundering of influence than not. Especially when there are current amazing black country artists like the Carolina Chocolate Drops stuff that I didn't see on that list. Or hell, just put Lead Belly's version of Skip to My Lou on there.
Also, dude loves his "Oh Brother Where Out Thou?" soundtrack (which to be fair, EVERYBODY should love that album).
posted by Gygesringtone at 6:28 AM on March 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
John Lee Hooker and Sister Rosetta Thorpe are on that list, which I don't know, that's a questionable choice. And like, I'm the last person to downplay black musicians contributions country music (or really to any American art form). In fact I think there's a good argument to be made that Country music has helped serve to disguise black artists' influence so white audiences can enjoy the fruits without having to think about who planted the tree. It's just I don't think either of them would consider themselves country or western and including them on the list seems kind of more in line with that laundering of influence than not. Especially when there are current amazing black country artists like the Carolina Chocolate Drops stuff that I didn't see on that list. Or hell, just put Lead Belly's version of Skip to My Lou on there.
Also, dude loves his "Oh Brother Where Out Thou?" soundtrack (which to be fair, EVERYBODY should love that album).
posted by Gygesringtone at 6:28 AM on March 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Really happy to dig through this list, but wish there was more context around the person who picked it, their methodology, etc.
posted by jordantwodelta at 7:51 AM on March 11, 2023
posted by jordantwodelta at 7:51 AM on March 11, 2023
I made a (very basic) textdoc version for y'all non-Spotify people.
posted by mykescipark at 7:57 AM on March 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by mykescipark at 7:57 AM on March 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ok, so he’s got a variety of different types of country on there, a teensy bit of western, and a little bit of bluegrass. I award some points for range; some deductions for not knowing his musical genres.
Gygesringtone, not so much country per se, but there are important historical Black bluegrass musicians who contributed to the development of that genre (as you probably already know since you’re citing Carolina Chocolate Drops, and they’ve been active in helping to recover that history!), and Western of course is cross-populated from some Latino musical genres (and probably also included Black musicians in its development, but of course the history of Black and Latino cowboys has been somewhat erased, which likely has had some impact on what we know or think we know about the development of early Western music) and also influences from Hawai’ian indigenous music. I think it’s just that the list is slightly mislabelled.
posted by eviemath at 8:28 AM on March 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Gygesringtone, not so much country per se, but there are important historical Black bluegrass musicians who contributed to the development of that genre (as you probably already know since you’re citing Carolina Chocolate Drops, and they’ve been active in helping to recover that history!), and Western of course is cross-populated from some Latino musical genres (and probably also included Black musicians in its development, but of course the history of Black and Latino cowboys has been somewhat erased, which likely has had some impact on what we know or think we know about the development of early Western music) and also influences from Hawai’ian indigenous music. I think it’s just that the list is slightly mislabelled.
posted by eviemath at 8:28 AM on March 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Gary Stewart - She's Actin' Single (I'm Drinkin' Doubles)
Really, for a Country song, it's hard to beat that title.
posted by Beholder at 8:40 AM on March 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Really, for a Country song, it's hard to beat that title.
posted by Beholder at 8:40 AM on March 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Beholder, that's not even in the top 10 best titles of country songs.
I like Glen Sutton's "What's Made Milwaukee Famous (Has Made a Loser Out of Me)"
other choices
"Flushed from the Bathroom of Your Heart"
"Drop Kick Me Jesus (Through the Goalposts of Life)"
"You Can't Roller Skate In A Buffalo Herd"
"It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels"
"My Head Hurts, My Feet Stink, And I Don't Love Jesus"
and a long list of others. See this list for more examples
posted by blob at 9:13 AM on March 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I like Glen Sutton's "What's Made Milwaukee Famous (Has Made a Loser Out of Me)"
other choices
"Flushed from the Bathroom of Your Heart"
"Drop Kick Me Jesus (Through the Goalposts of Life)"
"You Can't Roller Skate In A Buffalo Herd"
"It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels"
"My Head Hurts, My Feet Stink, And I Don't Love Jesus"
and a long list of others. See this list for more examples
posted by blob at 9:13 AM on March 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yeah, that's exactly my point. There's TONS of non-white folks who actually belong on that list, some of them are even on there, I just noticed there's a Blind Willie Johnson song, a handful from Charley Pride and even Ray Charles (although not the one you'd think). Maybe a couple of others I missed as well.
Which is why it's so weird to include the two others I pointed out. "One Bourbon, One Scotch, and One Beer" was recording 1966, the influence the blues had on country was well established at that point, and I don't know of any impact that one song had on the Country and Western. Even if it did I think for a genre to claim an artist the influence needs to be a two way street. Western swing owes a lot to Dixieland, but I hope we'd both agree that putting a Louis Armstrong Hot Five track on that list would be very very wrong. I had missed that one of the tracks from Sister Rossetta Tharpe was with Red Foley, so I don't see a problem with it being included, but the other is a straight up gospel number and I don't know of any reason to consider it as anything but that.
Like I said, overall I think a lot of thought went into this list, and in general I think it's a good over-view of genre. It's just given how culture in America works, I'm very suspect of anything that's generally read as white laying claim to something black artists did for largely black audiences as their own, and so those two tracks particularly stuck out to me.
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:02 AM on March 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Which is why it's so weird to include the two others I pointed out. "One Bourbon, One Scotch, and One Beer" was recording 1966, the influence the blues had on country was well established at that point, and I don't know of any impact that one song had on the Country and Western. Even if it did I think for a genre to claim an artist the influence needs to be a two way street. Western swing owes a lot to Dixieland, but I hope we'd both agree that putting a Louis Armstrong Hot Five track on that list would be very very wrong. I had missed that one of the tracks from Sister Rossetta Tharpe was with Red Foley, so I don't see a problem with it being included, but the other is a straight up gospel number and I don't know of any reason to consider it as anything but that.
Like I said, overall I think a lot of thought went into this list, and in general I think it's a good over-view of genre. It's just given how culture in America works, I'm very suspect of anything that's generally read as white laying claim to something black artists did for largely black audiences as their own, and so those two tracks particularly stuck out to me.
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:02 AM on March 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
It really happens, people do die of broken hearts. I damn near did; I damn sure wanted to.
So I get it, George Jones singing on "He Stopped Loving Her Today." Probably the song does deserve to be in this list. At least Jones wrote the song... Um, well, no, he didn't actually write it. Anyways, god be thanked that Billy Sherill didn't shit all over the song with disgusting Nash Vegas strings when he produced it ... Well, umm...
If you want to hear how it's done, it's on the first record of the man who wrote it, played guitar on it, and sang it, Guy Clark -- Let Him Roll
posted by dancestoblue at 10:43 PM on March 11, 2023
So I get it, George Jones singing on "He Stopped Loving Her Today." Probably the song does deserve to be in this list. At least Jones wrote the song... Um, well, no, he didn't actually write it. Anyways, god be thanked that Billy Sherill didn't shit all over the song with disgusting Nash Vegas strings when he produced it ... Well, umm...
If you want to hear how it's done, it's on the first record of the man who wrote it, played guitar on it, and sang it, Guy Clark -- Let Him Roll
posted by dancestoblue at 10:43 PM on March 11, 2023
That's deeply strange list in some ways. If you're going to include Jason Isbell & The 400 Unit and Drive-By Truckers - neither of which describe themselves as country artists - how can you not include any James McMurtry (listen to his cover of Guy Clark's "Cold Dog Soup")? No Robert Earl Keen? One Lyle Lovett song that's good, but not his best? One Steve Earle song. No Levon Helm, whose post-The Band work included very clear country influences? Weird song choices for both Lucinda Williams (nothing off "Happy Woman Blues" or her self-titled album, which were much more clearly country than "Car Wheels on a Gravel Road"?) and Emmylou Harris (nothing off "Quarter Moon in a Ten Cent Town"?). I would have picked a different Hank III song, maybe "Thunderstorms and Neon Signs". I'm not a huge fan, but did I miss David Allen Coe? Really, the whole Austin scene got short-shrift.
Also, I get that he likes Willie Nelson, but it embarrasses us all that he included that Toby Keith duet, right? An inexplicably terrible song recorded with a terrible person. Maybe he still owed the IRS money, I don't know, sad.
posted by wintermind at 8:37 AM on March 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, I get that he likes Willie Nelson, but it embarrasses us all that he included that Toby Keith duet, right? An inexplicably terrible song recorded with a terrible person. Maybe he still owed the IRS money, I don't know, sad.
posted by wintermind at 8:37 AM on March 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I think his early period-country knowledge is pretty strong, even though lots of those aren't my favorite songs, but he really is way more interested in pop country than me.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on March 13, 2023
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on March 13, 2023
« Older Are You Checking Me Out or Are You Just a Racist? | Maybe money does buy happiness after all Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Thorzdad at 4:34 AM on March 11, 2023