Drill Baby, Drill!
March 14, 2023 7:59 AM Subscribe
Biden Administration Approves Huge Alaska Oil Project Despite pledging no more drilling on federal land, the US president approved ConocoPhillips’ Willow project in Alaska.
Boooo.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:26 AM on March 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:26 AM on March 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
Hooray!
posted by davidmsc at 8:32 AM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by davidmsc at 8:32 AM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Of course every bit matters, but total global carbon emissions are about 37 billion metric tons, and according to the article, this will increase emissions by 9.2 million metric tons, so that's a 0.02 percent increase, even assuming no offsetting reduction in other production.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:39 AM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:39 AM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
It’s only a tiny smidge of climate genocide.
posted by Artw at 8:41 AM on March 14, 2023 [45 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:41 AM on March 14, 2023 [45 favorites]
Hooray!
posted by davidmsc at 8:32 AM on March 14 [+] [!]
In a nutshell - how are we supposed to understand the Climate crisis. Is it all bullshit? Is it partially bullshit?
What's the ratio of BS to not BS, and is the not BS part large enough that we need to do something about Climate change, preferably thirty years ago. Because if that's the case, then this kind of exploration/drilling and etc is suicide. At least for our kids and grandkids.
And I can't really wrap my brains around that. Do these oil execs not have kids?
posted by From Bklyn at 8:42 AM on March 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by davidmsc at 8:32 AM on March 14 [+] [!]
In a nutshell - how are we supposed to understand the Climate crisis. Is it all bullshit? Is it partially bullshit?
What's the ratio of BS to not BS, and is the not BS part large enough that we need to do something about Climate change, preferably thirty years ago. Because if that's the case, then this kind of exploration/drilling and etc is suicide. At least for our kids and grandkids.
And I can't really wrap my brains around that. Do these oil execs not have kids?
posted by From Bklyn at 8:42 AM on March 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
Do these oil execs not have kids?
Denial is a hell of a drug.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:44 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Denial is a hell of a drug.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:44 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
mnope nope nope it's not that they don't know, it's that they don't care. Oil execs and the people they fund always believe they'll have enough money to ride out any climate catastrophe. Extrapolating for the people in the back: capitalists always believe they'll have enough money to ride out any externalities their businesses create.
Our job is to make them incorrect about this.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:49 AM on March 14, 2023 [47 favorites]
Our job is to make them incorrect about this.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:49 AM on March 14, 2023 [47 favorites]
Combine this with going back to draconian migrant detention and Biden seems determined to make sure everyone disillusioned with politics can find new reasons to argue themselves into a "who cares, they're all the same" apathy
Stay winning old man! C'mon jack.
posted by dis_integration at 8:49 AM on March 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
Stay winning old man! C'mon jack.
posted by dis_integration at 8:49 AM on March 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
And I can't really wrap my brains around that. Do these oil execs not have kids?
You may have noticed billionaire oligarchs talk about “Mars” and how they’re going to colonize it a lot, mostly in ways that are impossible nonsense when it comes to the actual Mars. My current working theory is they just mean the uninhabitable remnants of future earth once all the pesky people and democracies have been swept away.
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on March 14, 2023 [12 favorites]
You may have noticed billionaire oligarchs talk about “Mars” and how they’re going to colonize it a lot, mostly in ways that are impossible nonsense when it comes to the actual Mars. My current working theory is they just mean the uninhabitable remnants of future earth once all the pesky people and democracies have been swept away.
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on March 14, 2023 [12 favorites]
According to the two people familiar with the deliberations, the administration concluded that it doesn’t have the legal authority to deny permits to ConocoPhillips, which has long held leases on the land in the petroleum reserve.At the risk of beating a dead horse, as long as the Trump administration continues to get a free pass on the whole insurrection thing (not to mention everything else they did despite not having the "authority" to do) this kind of argument will always sting.
Prove me wrong DOJ!
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:52 AM on March 14, 2023 [14 favorites]
this kind of argument will always sting.
Exactly. At least make the oil companies take you to court - put up a fight and make a show of giving a shit. They don't even pretend. An argument of "we're just following orders" from the guy at the top is a pretty incredible level of avoiding accountability.
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:57 AM on March 14, 2023 [11 favorites]
Exactly. At least make the oil companies take you to court - put up a fight and make a show of giving a shit. They don't even pretend. An argument of "we're just following orders" from the guy at the top is a pretty incredible level of avoiding accountability.
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:57 AM on March 14, 2023 [11 favorites]
By happy coincidence, Democratic administrations will always find that there are procedural and legal reasons that we have to detain migrants, drill in Alaska, let the GOP crash the global economy, allow trans children to be forcibly detransitioned, etc.
This isn't because they support these terrible things - heavens no! - it's just because their respect for the law is so strong that the law must be allowed to torture and murder citizens rather than be impeded in its magnificent course.
(Spoiler - they do support these things but require an excuse to take back to the base.)
posted by Frowner at 9:00 AM on March 14, 2023 [47 favorites]
This isn't because they support these terrible things - heavens no! - it's just because their respect for the law is so strong that the law must be allowed to torture and murder citizens rather than be impeded in its magnificent course.
(Spoiler - they do support these things but require an excuse to take back to the base.)
posted by Frowner at 9:00 AM on March 14, 2023 [47 favorites]
Energy Department Announces Funds for Nuclear Power Plants
posted by clavdivs at 9:07 AM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 9:07 AM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
You may have noticed billionaire oligarchs talk about “Mars” and how they’re going to colonize it a lot, mostly in ways that are impossible nonsense when it comes to the actual Mars.
That sounds like a lot of work for oligarchs. I suspect that actual plan is to either kill or enslave the rest of us. Shit like this from Biden certainly makes that seem more plausible.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:07 AM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
That sounds like a lot of work for oligarchs. I suspect that actual plan is to either kill or enslave the rest of us. Shit like this from Biden certainly makes that seem more plausible.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:07 AM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yes, that is my conclusion too.
posted by Artw at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
How Biden Got From ‘No More Drilling’ to Backing a Huge Project in Alaska (NYT gift link)
posted by box at 9:14 AM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 9:14 AM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is my surprised face. I am so surprised.
posted by slogger at 9:19 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by slogger at 9:19 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Write your congresspeople.
posted by biogeo at 9:22 AM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 9:22 AM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you didn't make it to the end of the article, and felt like the hit of nausea wasn't quite strong enough, be sure to scroll to the bottom where the last word is given to the "senior vice president of policy at the American Petroleum Institute, a trade organization."
posted by mittens at 9:25 AM on March 14, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by mittens at 9:25 AM on March 14, 2023 [14 favorites]
Energy Department Announces Funds for Nuclear Power Plants
That website. I had no idea it was a thing.
posted by aenea at 9:29 AM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Biden’s approval of Willow project shows inconsistency of US’s first ‘climate president’ [Guardian]
Biden’s approval of this is “a colossal and reprehensible stain on his environmental legacy”, according to Raena Garcia, fossil fuels campaigner at Friends of the Earth. Even a group of Biden’s Democratic allies, including Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, attacked the decision as ignoring “the voices of the people of Nuiqsut, our frontline communities, and the irrefutable science that says we must stop building projects like this to slow the ever more devastating impacts of climate change”.posted by Ahmad Khani at 9:47 AM on March 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
But the approval of the project is consistent with an administration that has approved nearly 100 more oil and gas drilling leases than Donald Trump had at the same point in his presidency, federal data shows. Biden may have promised “no more drilling on federal lands, period” during his presidential campaign, but the reality has been very different – not only have the hydrocarbons continued to flow, they are in a sort of boom, with both oil and gas production forecast to hit record levels year.
(Spoiler - they do support these things but require an excuse to take back to the base.)
Ardent Progressives are in no way the "base" of the Democratic Party.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 9:57 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ardent Progressives are in no way the "base" of the Democratic Party.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 9:57 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
[Biden] has approved nearly 100 more oil and gas drilling leases than Donald Trump had at the same point in his presidency,
I wonder if this is mainly true because Trump was practically absent for his entire presidency. Two more weeks!
posted by meowzilla at 10:14 AM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I wonder if this is mainly true because Trump was practically absent for his entire presidency. Two more weeks!
posted by meowzilla at 10:14 AM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ardent Progressives are in no way the "base" of the Democratic Party.
I mean, if you exclude "detaining migrants, drilling in Alaska, letting the GOP crash the global economy, allowing trans children to be forcibly detransitioned" [ing] from the list of policy distinctions...
what's left of 'being a Democrat'? It's not abortion, it's too big of a tent to take a stance there. It's not any sort of moral stance. It's not immigration policy, or ecological policy, or human rights. So what is it?
This isn't even getting to 'ardent progressivedom' planks here. What is the base of the Democratic party if it's none of that?
posted by CrystalDave at 10:16 AM on March 14, 2023 [12 favorites]
I mean, if you exclude "detaining migrants, drilling in Alaska, letting the GOP crash the global economy, allowing trans children to be forcibly detransitioned" [ing] from the list of policy distinctions...
what's left of 'being a Democrat'? It's not abortion, it's too big of a tent to take a stance there. It's not any sort of moral stance. It's not immigration policy, or ecological policy, or human rights. So what is it?
This isn't even getting to 'ardent progressivedom' planks here. What is the base of the Democratic party if it's none of that?
posted by CrystalDave at 10:16 AM on March 14, 2023 [12 favorites]
If the purpose of a system is what it does, then the purpose of the Democrats is to be the party that absorbs the votes of all the people who find Republicans repugnant so that no truly progressive candidates can be elected, without enacting any policies that actually endanger capitalism's death-grip.
Since Reagan's "trickle down" signalled the final spasming collapse of whatever remained of the New Deal, the country has followed a strict policy of income stratification with very little interruption.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:47 AM on March 14, 2023 [16 favorites]
Since Reagan's "trickle down" signalled the final spasming collapse of whatever remained of the New Deal, the country has followed a strict policy of income stratification with very little interruption.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:47 AM on March 14, 2023 [16 favorites]
what's left of 'being a Democrat'? It's not abortion, it's too big of a tent to take a stance there. It's not any sort of moral stance.
The states controlled by Dems are passing all kinds of abortion protections. Nothing was ever going to make it through the federal Congress even before the R's took over the House.
The Democratic Party is a huge, rickety, extremely diverse, very loose coalition of people who are opposed to Christofascism. It goes all the way from traditional conservatives, through socially-conservative black and Hispanic folks, through traditional liberals who are above all pragmatic, through progressives who actually understand they're part of a coalition, all the way to Ardent Progressives and even a few left-leaning anarchists who understand that the two major parties are not alike. Biden is, though you might not like to hear it, squarely in the middle of this coalition. The Democratic party doesn't have "a" base; it has many factions, who agree on little other than keeping the Republicans out of power. Go too far toward any one faction, you risk alienating many of the others.
Most Democrats, even progressive ones, recognize this, but there's the Nader voters, the Saint Bernie dead-enders and the Jill Stein voters (WTF?) who seem to think that the party should above all represent them, and are somehow still unable to see the forest for the trees. Ardent Progressives fucked up the 2000 and 2016 elections, but gods forbid they would ever acknowledge this. The Democratic Party doesn't cater to them because a) they're well to one side of the bell curve of the coalition, and b) even if they were catered to, they'd whine endlessly about the perfect being the enemy of the good. No "truly progressive candidate" outside of a hothouse environment will be elected, period: you're just not that popular.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 10:52 AM on March 14, 2023 [17 favorites]
The states controlled by Dems are passing all kinds of abortion protections. Nothing was ever going to make it through the federal Congress even before the R's took over the House.
The Democratic Party is a huge, rickety, extremely diverse, very loose coalition of people who are opposed to Christofascism. It goes all the way from traditional conservatives, through socially-conservative black and Hispanic folks, through traditional liberals who are above all pragmatic, through progressives who actually understand they're part of a coalition, all the way to Ardent Progressives and even a few left-leaning anarchists who understand that the two major parties are not alike. Biden is, though you might not like to hear it, squarely in the middle of this coalition. The Democratic party doesn't have "a" base; it has many factions, who agree on little other than keeping the Republicans out of power. Go too far toward any one faction, you risk alienating many of the others.
Most Democrats, even progressive ones, recognize this, but there's the Nader voters, the Saint Bernie dead-enders and the Jill Stein voters (WTF?) who seem to think that the party should above all represent them, and are somehow still unable to see the forest for the trees. Ardent Progressives fucked up the 2000 and 2016 elections, but gods forbid they would ever acknowledge this. The Democratic Party doesn't cater to them because a) they're well to one side of the bell curve of the coalition, and b) even if they were catered to, they'd whine endlessly about the perfect being the enemy of the good. No "truly progressive candidate" outside of a hothouse environment will be elected, period: you're just not that popular.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 10:52 AM on March 14, 2023 [17 favorites]
Sometimes I think about getting involved with the Democratic party and then something like this happens I lose all motivation. I know that more progressives need to be involved but it seems so hopeless sometimes.
posted by Justin Case at 10:53 AM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Justin Case at 10:53 AM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
CrystalDave, I would say it’s support for the administrative state, social security checks arriving on time, infrastructure being at least minimally maintained, school lunches… “normalcy,” in other words. It’s been said that the only thing people hate more than the status quo is change of any kind. When push comes to shove, people will choose continuity. This is the challenge progressives will have to deal with, always and forever. I’ve spent a lot of time feeling depressed about it, but that doesn’t help. I have to live as happily as possible in a world where this is true.
posted by ducky l'orange at 10:55 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by ducky l'orange at 10:55 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
→
It may not be the best policy to be running nuclear power plants on prayer.
posted by scruss at 11:00 AM on March 14, 2023
That website. I had no idea it was a thing
It may not be the best policy to be running nuclear power plants on prayer.
posted by scruss at 11:00 AM on March 14, 2023
Above, I said “change of any kind.” That’s not true. The only think people hate more than the status quo is change they can’t predict or fear they can’t adapt to.
posted by ducky l'orange at 11:01 AM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ducky l'orange at 11:01 AM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
And, as ever, if you somehow object to the way that the Democrats are literally continuing many of Trump's policies, then you are not only a hazy-brain idealist but the very reason that the Democrats lean to the right. If you don't expect anything left-leaning and just vote vote vote for every oil well and suicided trans child, then reform will follow as night the day, but if you point out any patterns you are the very one drilling the well, stop hitting yourself St. Bernie, etc.
But there's nothing to do about it; no one comfortably off except the hazy-brain idealists will ever take any meaningful steps to change anything and they'll just be derided as crazy and then crushed by the police.
And I am on record as truly believing that Biden wouldn't go along with Trump's immigration policy. I believed that most people genuinely found it repugnant, despite the people to my left who said that, just as with Bush/Clinton, they only found the policies repugnant because the GOP was running them. And maybe people do find it repugnant, but certainly not repugnant enough to act.
Which is why nothing will change, ever, except for the inevitable right-wing ratchet. As they march me off to whatever camp they're going to put the trans people in, someone somewhere will remind me that if I complain about my lot, the Democrats might fail to make reforms.
posted by Frowner at 11:04 AM on March 14, 2023 [28 favorites]
But there's nothing to do about it; no one comfortably off except the hazy-brain idealists will ever take any meaningful steps to change anything and they'll just be derided as crazy and then crushed by the police.
And I am on record as truly believing that Biden wouldn't go along with Trump's immigration policy. I believed that most people genuinely found it repugnant, despite the people to my left who said that, just as with Bush/Clinton, they only found the policies repugnant because the GOP was running them. And maybe people do find it repugnant, but certainly not repugnant enough to act.
Which is why nothing will change, ever, except for the inevitable right-wing ratchet. As they march me off to whatever camp they're going to put the trans people in, someone somewhere will remind me that if I complain about my lot, the Democrats might fail to make reforms.
posted by Frowner at 11:04 AM on March 14, 2023 [28 favorites]
Which is why nothing will change, ever, except for the inevitable right-wing ratchet.
Or you could, you know, actually try to convince people that your ideas are the right ones instead of just doing the classic Ardent Progressive move of "anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid and/or evil". Huge majorities of Americans *do not want* large waves of low-skill migrants allowed into the country, and yes, some of this is just store brand racism, but much of it is based on a sober assessment of the consequences.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 11:11 AM on March 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
Or you could, you know, actually try to convince people that your ideas are the right ones instead of just doing the classic Ardent Progressive move of "anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid and/or evil". Huge majorities of Americans *do not want* large waves of low-skill migrants allowed into the country, and yes, some of this is just store brand racism, but much of it is based on a sober assessment of the consequences.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 11:11 AM on March 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
The centrist pragmatist routine is especially tired bullshit today.
posted by Artw at 11:16 AM on March 14, 2023 [27 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:16 AM on March 14, 2023 [27 favorites]
wow, stocks on almost every oil co. up. But
Equinor ASA is down. 10 hours ago
'Equinor makes Norway oil and gas discovery'
please gentlefolk, no fighting in the oil thread.
posted by clavdivs at 11:19 AM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Equinor ASA is down. 10 hours ago
'Equinor makes Norway oil and gas discovery'
please gentlefolk, no fighting in the oil thread.
posted by clavdivs at 11:19 AM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
but much of it is based on a sober assessment of the consequences.
No it's not. It's propaganda marketed as a sober assessment of the consequences.
Jose is way a less a threat to my job working next to me on the assembly line for $16/hour than he is working in Mexico city for $2/hour. Why do you think all these rich people spend so much money supporting free trade and not freedom of movement? It's because they've done a sober assessment of the situation, and they know that letting workers move around to get a good deal is better for labor.
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:21 AM on March 14, 2023 [16 favorites]
No it's not. It's propaganda marketed as a sober assessment of the consequences.
Jose is way a less a threat to my job working next to me on the assembly line for $16/hour than he is working in Mexico city for $2/hour. Why do you think all these rich people spend so much money supporting free trade and not freedom of movement? It's because they've done a sober assessment of the situation, and they know that letting workers move around to get a good deal is better for labor.
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:21 AM on March 14, 2023 [16 favorites]
Low-skilled migrants are coming anyway. You can have them illegally with all the bad outcomes that come from that or you can have them legally. There's no third option: people will not just stop trying to have a better life. It's rather like abortion, people will get abortions whether they are legal or not, the question is do you want them to be safe.
Anyway about drilling. I am feeling discouraged and because I live in Tennessee, I can't even call anybody to complain. (I mean I can, but they will not care and it won't do anything.) I wish I could convince Republicans to own the libs by blocking oil and gas development.
posted by joannemerriam at 11:30 AM on March 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Anyway about drilling. I am feeling discouraged and because I live in Tennessee, I can't even call anybody to complain. (I mean I can, but they will not care and it won't do anything.) I wish I could convince Republicans to own the libs by blocking oil and gas development.
posted by joannemerriam at 11:30 AM on March 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Mod note: Comment removed. Please stay focused on the linked article and subject, not your fellow members, thanks!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 11:33 AM on March 14, 2023
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 11:33 AM on March 14, 2023
To get back to the topic of the OP, there was support for the Willow Project from the Alaska Federation of Natives as well as the AFL-CIO, among other major blocs in Alaska. That doesn't mean I agree with them or with the decision to proceed, but it does mean it isn't just petrochemical barons who boosted this project.
posted by twsf at 11:35 AM on March 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by twsf at 11:35 AM on March 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
And I am on record as truly believing that Biden wouldn't go along with Trump's immigration policy. I
Huge majorities of Americans *do not want* large waves of low-skill migrants allowed into the country, .
In this thread and in other threads, you keep on conflating not acquiescing to cruel xenophobic immigration policies such as jailing children, and denying asylum seekers a hearing with "Open borders", "large waves of low skill migrants". By doing so you buy into the framing of the right, and furthermore validate it to a liberal audience by your disingenuous analysis and tone.
Your statements are loathesome and - asterisked or not, said in the mildest of gentle tone or not, - functionally support racism.
posted by lalochezia at 11:35 AM on March 14, 2023 [24 favorites]
I wish I could convince Republicans to own the libs by blocking oil and gas development.
I know this is gallows humor, but if progressives were better at working out ways to split right-wing coalitions, we might be able to get more points on the board.
posted by ducky l'orange at 11:37 AM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
I know this is gallows humor, but if progressives were better at working out ways to split right-wing coalitions, we might be able to get more points on the board.
posted by ducky l'orange at 11:37 AM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Eco-fascism: What It Is, Why It’s Wrong, and How to Fight It
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Or maybe liberals and moderates could just not fall for right-wing moral panics.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Authoritarian Centrism is a real thing but it often tries to disguise itself as "pragmatism."
posted by thatwhichfalls at 11:46 AM on March 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 11:46 AM on March 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
That is certainly true, but it doesn’t mean all pragmatism is false, or even “centerist.” How do we tell the difference?
posted by ducky l'orange at 12:08 PM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by ducky l'orange at 12:08 PM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Combine this with going back to draconian migrant detention and Biden seems determined to make sure everyone disillusioned with politics can find new reasons to argue themselves into a "who cares, they're all the same" apathy
I'm not happy about this Alaska move, but it doesn't change the fact that he's still done vastly more than all previous presidents combined to support renewable energy and fight climate change.
I'm pretty sure this move is about Biden positioning himself as a bit more moderate going into 2024. Also, as was pointed out above, it's about him listening to certain Democratic constituencies that aren't necessarily in lockstep with college-educated progressives on all issues (e.g., Alaska natives and union workers).
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm not happy about this Alaska move, but it doesn't change the fact that he's still done vastly more than all previous presidents combined to support renewable energy and fight climate change.
I'm pretty sure this move is about Biden positioning himself as a bit more moderate going into 2024. Also, as was pointed out above, it's about him listening to certain Democratic constituencies that aren't necessarily in lockstep with college-educated progressives on all issues (e.g., Alaska natives and union workers).
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:12 PM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
it's about him listening to certain Democratic constituencies that aren't necessarily in lockstep with college-educated progressives on all issues
This is the same excuse they used for not making abortion an issue, to the point that Biden was apparently set to nominate an extremely anti-choice judge to a lifetime appointment the same day Roe was struck down. As it turns out, they were they wildly incorrect, but of course by then it was too late.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:23 PM on March 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
This is the same excuse they used for not making abortion an issue, to the point that Biden was apparently set to nominate an extremely anti-choice judge to a lifetime appointment the same day Roe was struck down. As it turns out, they were they wildly incorrect, but of course by then it was too late.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:23 PM on March 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
And we're seeing it now with the "thoughts and prayers" approach of many national and state-level Dem leaders to trans people being legislated out of existence, due in no small part to a large chunk of the liberal and centrist commentariat acquiring the same brain worms that took over the UK.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:27 PM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:27 PM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
"Biden committed to reducing American greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050, and part of that plan is a massive expansion of federal land leases for renewable energy projects. That is indeed happening, but [...] this one single project more than offsets all the climate benefits from those renewable leases, by a lot."
https://heatmap.news/politics/biden-s-climate-betrayal
posted by msbutah at 12:33 PM on March 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
https://heatmap.news/politics/biden-s-climate-betrayal
posted by msbutah at 12:33 PM on March 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
“I am not a member of any organized political party — I am a Democrat. ”
― Will Rogers
posted by kirkaracha at 12:43 PM on March 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
― Will Rogers
posted by kirkaracha at 12:43 PM on March 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
If you benefit economically from oil drilling I would count you as an oil baron, even if you are the largest statewide organization of Natives in Alaska.
posted by Nec_variat_lux_fracta_colorem at 12:55 PM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Nec_variat_lux_fracta_colorem at 12:55 PM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Biden was apparently set to nominate an extremely anti-choice judge to a lifetime appointment the same day Roe was struck down. As it turns out, they were they wildly incorrect, but of course by then it was too late.
"By then it was too late" kind of makes it sound like Biden actually nominated the judge. But as it happened he didn't. So if this is supposed to be evidence for Biden not listening to various constituencies within the party, it doesn't seem to support that conclusion.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:06 PM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
"By then it was too late" kind of makes it sound like Biden actually nominated the judge. But as it happened he didn't. So if this is supposed to be evidence for Biden not listening to various constituencies within the party, it doesn't seem to support that conclusion.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:06 PM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Notably when the party went “oh shit, we’d just as soon not get wiped out in the 2022 elections” they tacked HARD in the other direction. Going conservative is their off year shit for donors.
posted by Artw at 1:08 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:08 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
"Biden committed to reducing American greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050, and part of that plan is a massive expansion of federal land leases for renewable energy projects. That is indeed happening, but [...] this one single project more than offsets all the climate benefits from those renewable leases, by a lot."
There appear to be some games being played here with numbers. Quoting what comes next in that article:
If operated for 30 years as planned, burning the 600 million barrels of oil Willow is estimated to contain will create more than 260 million metric tons of carbon dioxide, or roughly what Spain produces in a year. As she writes, “allowing the Willow project to proceed would result in double the carbon pollution that all renewable progress on public lands and waters would save by 2030.”
So they're comparing 30 years of emissions from the Willow project with the emissions reductions from renewable projects on federal land and water during the next 7 years? That seems a bit disingenuous.
Biden has opened up vast tracts of the outer continental shelf for offshore wind. In the coming years, we'll have giant wind farms off the Atlantic and Pacific coasts, and in the Gulf of Mexico. The long-term climate impact of all that capacity is immense. So while this article seems to be trying to make readers think that the Willow project will offset all the administration's efforts on renewables, I don't think that's the case.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:14 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
There appear to be some games being played here with numbers. Quoting what comes next in that article:
If operated for 30 years as planned, burning the 600 million barrels of oil Willow is estimated to contain will create more than 260 million metric tons of carbon dioxide, or roughly what Spain produces in a year. As she writes, “allowing the Willow project to proceed would result in double the carbon pollution that all renewable progress on public lands and waters would save by 2030.”
So they're comparing 30 years of emissions from the Willow project with the emissions reductions from renewable projects on federal land and water during the next 7 years? That seems a bit disingenuous.
Biden has opened up vast tracts of the outer continental shelf for offshore wind. In the coming years, we'll have giant wind farms off the Atlantic and Pacific coasts, and in the Gulf of Mexico. The long-term climate impact of all that capacity is immense. So while this article seems to be trying to make readers think that the Willow project will offset all the administration's efforts on renewables, I don't think that's the case.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:14 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Both parties are never, ever the same. Democrats are disappointing frequently and don't always succeed in fixing everything Republican scum breaks. But that never changes the fact that Republicans are actively shotgunning any and every form of government and civil living they can, every time they can.
posted by Jacen at 1:16 PM on March 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 1:16 PM on March 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
"By then it was too late" kind of makes it sound like Biden actually nominated the judge. But as it happened he didn't.
Well, no, the reason it was originally blocked was because Rand Paul denied him the "blue slip"--another tactic the GOP eliminates when they're in control that the Dem chumps keep on resurrecting--and it just so happened that the decision to strike down Roe came that day.
So if this is supposed to be evidence for Biden not listening to various constituencies within the party, it doesn't seem to support that conclusion.
You're right, maybe that wasn't enough evidence, let me go to the videotape:
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 1:22 PM on March 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
Well, no, the reason it was originally blocked was because Rand Paul denied him the "blue slip"--another tactic the GOP eliminates when they're in control that the Dem chumps keep on resurrecting--and it just so happened that the decision to strike down Roe came that day.
So if this is supposed to be evidence for Biden not listening to various constituencies within the party, it doesn't seem to support that conclusion.
You're right, maybe that wasn't enough evidence, let me go to the videotape:
“Joe Biden’s goal in responding to Dobbs is not to satisfy some activists who have been consistently out of step with the mainstream of the Democratic Party. It’s to deliver help to women who are in danger and assemble a broad-based coalition to defend a woman’s right to choose now, just as he assembled such a coalition to win during the 2020 campaign,” [White House communications director Kate Bedingfield] said.That's the same excuse being used right here in this thread, but sure, y'all go off about how every policy and electoral failure is the fault of the SJW left scaring the normies.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 1:22 PM on March 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
Yes. The parties are not the same.
One is the Bad Cop.
The other is the Good Cop.
Either of them is fine with shooting you.
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 1:24 PM on March 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
One is the Bad Cop.
The other is the Good Cop.
Either of them is fine with shooting you.
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 1:24 PM on March 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
My 16 year old usually does not follow politics outside of issues concerning trans rights, and he pretty much never broaches topics of any sort at the dinner table -- it takes some effort to get him to say anything at all to us during dinner (the apple didn't fall too far from the tree there...).
Yesterday, one of the first things he said when he sat down was "Can you BELIEVE Biden approved that drilling? I'm so angry at him. I'm not voting for Democrats when I can vote."
I found myself sounding like an NPR host as I tried to respond to him, "Yes, well, uh...it's sub-optimal, for sure. But it's probably a necessary step in shoring up bi-partisan support from Mitch McConnell in order to achieve some Democratic objective further down the line, so it'll probably be okay."
As I was speaking, one part of my brain was like, "Why stop there, Wolf? What else and who else should the Dems throw under the bus in the hopes of some theorized future Republican cooperation? Didn't you used to take the same position as your son whenever the Dems pulled bullshit moves like this? For example, any time they were ignoring or actively hurting the poor, women, and minorities in order to appeal to Mr and Mrs John Q America in the Heartland?"
Long story short, as I grow older, it's looking more and more like I'm part of the problem rather than the solution. And if the Dems are alienating young soon-to-be voters...well, shit.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:42 PM on March 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
Yesterday, one of the first things he said when he sat down was "Can you BELIEVE Biden approved that drilling? I'm so angry at him. I'm not voting for Democrats when I can vote."
I found myself sounding like an NPR host as I tried to respond to him, "Yes, well, uh...it's sub-optimal, for sure. But it's probably a necessary step in shoring up bi-partisan support from Mitch McConnell in order to achieve some Democratic objective further down the line, so it'll probably be okay."
As I was speaking, one part of my brain was like, "Why stop there, Wolf? What else and who else should the Dems throw under the bus in the hopes of some theorized future Republican cooperation? Didn't you used to take the same position as your son whenever the Dems pulled bullshit moves like this? For example, any time they were ignoring or actively hurting the poor, women, and minorities in order to appeal to Mr and Mrs John Q America in the Heartland?"
Long story short, as I grow older, it's looking more and more like I'm part of the problem rather than the solution. And if the Dems are alienating young soon-to-be voters...well, shit.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:42 PM on March 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
The eulogies for Mitch McConnells history of bipartisan support will be long and fulsome.
posted by Artw at 1:47 PM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:47 PM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ugh.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 2:06 PM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 2:06 PM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
You're right, maybe that wasn't enough evidence, let me go to the videotape:
“Joe Biden’s goal in responding to Dobbs is not to satisfy some activists who have been consistently out of step with the mainstream of the Democratic Party. It’s to deliver help to women who are in danger and assemble a broad-based coalition to defend a woman’s right to choose now, just as he assembled such a coalition to win during the 2020 campaign,” [White House communications director Kate Bedingfield] said
I'm not clear on exactly what dastardliness you think this quote is evidence of. It states clearly that Biden is pro-choice.
Also, what does this have to do with an oil project in Alaska?
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 2:08 PM on March 14, 2023
“Joe Biden’s goal in responding to Dobbs is not to satisfy some activists who have been consistently out of step with the mainstream of the Democratic Party. It’s to deliver help to women who are in danger and assemble a broad-based coalition to defend a woman’s right to choose now, just as he assembled such a coalition to win during the 2020 campaign,” [White House communications director Kate Bedingfield] said
I'm not clear on exactly what dastardliness you think this quote is evidence of. It states clearly that Biden is pro-choice.
Also, what does this have to do with an oil project in Alaska?
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 2:08 PM on March 14, 2023
On a meta level:
It's clear that those MeFites who fervently believe in a grand unified conspiracy theory that holds that the Dems are just players in a phony good cop/bad cop puppet show are not going to convince those of us who think otherwise. And we are not going to convince them.
So perhaps it would be best not to spend hours on such unprovable arguments, especially if they range far afield from the actual subject of the post.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 2:12 PM on March 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's clear that those MeFites who fervently believe in a grand unified conspiracy theory that holds that the Dems are just players in a phony good cop/bad cop puppet show are not going to convince those of us who think otherwise. And we are not going to convince them.
So perhaps it would be best not to spend hours on such unprovable arguments, especially if they range far afield from the actual subject of the post.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 2:12 PM on March 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
The eulogies for Mitch McConnells
Please don't tease me I read this too fast
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:15 PM on March 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
Please don't tease me I read this too fast
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:15 PM on March 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
Apologies to the original poster, but there was no point in having this post. Everything that's been commented here is so predictable I would have sworn someone fed previous MeFi posts on "those wacky Dems and their centrist antics" as input to one of those AI chatbots and set it loose.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 2:16 PM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 2:16 PM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Speaking to the details of the administration's current action, this (paywalled) Law360 article provides some additional nuance:
President Joe Biden on Monday closed off U.S. portions of the Arctic Ocean to future oil and gas drilling, but his administration also greenlighted a controversial ConocoPhillips oil production complex in the Alaskan Arctic.
Biden used his presidential authority under the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act to withdraw areas of the Arctic from future oil and gas leasing that haven't been previously withdrawn. ...
The record of decision cuts ConocoPhillips' proposal from five drill sites to three initial sites. The Bureau of Land Management's preferred alternative for development in the petroleum reserve, outlined in a recently finalized environmental impact statement, called for three drilling sites and a fourth that could receive approval later.
The DOI said it will also propose additional protections for designated areas within the Alaska National Petroleum Reserve that would limit future drilling and other industrial activities. ...
The BLM last year rolled back a Trump administration plan to open up 82% of the Alaska National Petroleum Reserve to protect the public health and environment.
A revised environmental impact statement was ordered after a federal judge sided with environmental groups' challenge to the project and tossed the Trump administration's approval for the drilling endeavor. According to that ruling, the BLM's previous environmental review didn't fully account for its greenhouse gas emissions, and a report about its effect on endangered polar bears was flawed.
"Willow has passed every level of environmental analysis, proving its viability as a responsible resource development project in this ongoing era of energy transition," the Iñupiat Community of the Arctic Slope, the North Slope Borough, and Arctic Slope Regional Corp. said in a joint statement Monday. "As the [record of decision] recognizes, for the North Slope, the Willow Project represents a new opportunity to ensure our indigenous, Alaska Native communities' ten thousand years of history has a viable future."
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 2:32 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
President Joe Biden on Monday closed off U.S. portions of the Arctic Ocean to future oil and gas drilling, but his administration also greenlighted a controversial ConocoPhillips oil production complex in the Alaskan Arctic.
Biden used his presidential authority under the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act to withdraw areas of the Arctic from future oil and gas leasing that haven't been previously withdrawn. ...
The record of decision cuts ConocoPhillips' proposal from five drill sites to three initial sites. The Bureau of Land Management's preferred alternative for development in the petroleum reserve, outlined in a recently finalized environmental impact statement, called for three drilling sites and a fourth that could receive approval later.
The DOI said it will also propose additional protections for designated areas within the Alaska National Petroleum Reserve that would limit future drilling and other industrial activities. ...
The BLM last year rolled back a Trump administration plan to open up 82% of the Alaska National Petroleum Reserve to protect the public health and environment.
A revised environmental impact statement was ordered after a federal judge sided with environmental groups' challenge to the project and tossed the Trump administration's approval for the drilling endeavor. According to that ruling, the BLM's previous environmental review didn't fully account for its greenhouse gas emissions, and a report about its effect on endangered polar bears was flawed.
"Willow has passed every level of environmental analysis, proving its viability as a responsible resource development project in this ongoing era of energy transition," the Iñupiat Community of the Arctic Slope, the North Slope Borough, and Arctic Slope Regional Corp. said in a joint statement Monday. "As the [record of decision] recognizes, for the North Slope, the Willow Project represents a new opportunity to ensure our indigenous, Alaska Native communities' ten thousand years of history has a viable future."
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 2:32 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
As I was speaking, one part of my brain was like, "Why stop there, Wolf? What else and who else should the Dems throw under the bus in the hopes of some theorized future Republican cooperation?
Well, they also threw highway equity under the bus with that useless pile Merrick Garland yet again failing to find any fault. Man I'm glad the Republicans blocked that spineless loser from the Supreme Court and getting more and more pissed at Obama and Biden giving him cushy jobs.
If this administration has done more for the climate than any other, that's an extremely low bar.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:17 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Well, they also threw highway equity under the bus with that useless pile Merrick Garland yet again failing to find any fault. Man I'm glad the Republicans blocked that spineless loser from the Supreme Court and getting more and more pissed at Obama and Biden giving him cushy jobs.
If this administration has done more for the climate than any other, that's an extremely low bar.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:17 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Everything that's been commented here is so predictable I would have sworn someone fed
Interest point as this is just an update from February.
posted by clavdivs at 3:32 PM on March 14, 2023
Interest point as this is just an update from February.
posted by clavdivs at 3:32 PM on March 14, 2023
Finally gets the offshore wind leases done after over a decade of fierce opposition from both oil companies and NIMBYs, withdraws a huge swath of public land from oil development, but gives one widely supported project a green light and suddenly none of the rest matters. Funny how that works.
posted by wierdo at 3:37 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 3:37 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Didn't Biden's "climate deal" with Joe Manchin already pledge that every single drilling application and application to lease federal land for drilling would be rubber stamped? How was there ever even a question about this one?
I try not to be excessively cynical, but I keep wondering if I'm being pragmatic or being a sucker when I don't just automatically assume the worst possible outcome of anything the Democrats claim to be doing.
Mr.Know-it-some While yes, in the grand scheme of things this isn't huge, it's demoralizing and symbolically it's awful. It adds weight to the people advocating apathy.
There should be a policy of no new drilling. Anywhere. Not one more oil well. If we can't take that basic first step, not even reducing our use of oil but at least not EXPANDING our use of oil, then how do we ever expect to see oil use decline?
posted by sotonohito at 4:22 PM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I try not to be excessively cynical, but I keep wondering if I'm being pragmatic or being a sucker when I don't just automatically assume the worst possible outcome of anything the Democrats claim to be doing.
Mr.Know-it-some While yes, in the grand scheme of things this isn't huge, it's demoralizing and symbolically it's awful. It adds weight to the people advocating apathy.
There should be a policy of no new drilling. Anywhere. Not one more oil well. If we can't take that basic first step, not even reducing our use of oil but at least not EXPANDING our use of oil, then how do we ever expect to see oil use decline?
posted by sotonohito at 4:22 PM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
New drilling doesn't necessarily increase the overall supply of oil. Wells decline in output over time, so new ones have to be drilled to maintain a given level of production. That's not to say that the current level of production isn't way too much, just that more drilling doesn't necessarily equate to an increase in yearly numbers.
Also, there's a strategic argument to be made about not pinching off supply before the alternatives we are building apace and the investments made actually bear fruit. I'm not certain I agree with it, but it's not implausible on its face that driving up energy costs even further will lead to backlash that makes it harder to make the progress we so desperately need.
posted by wierdo at 4:46 PM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also, there's a strategic argument to be made about not pinching off supply before the alternatives we are building apace and the investments made actually bear fruit. I'm not certain I agree with it, but it's not implausible on its face that driving up energy costs even further will lead to backlash that makes it harder to make the progress we so desperately need.
posted by wierdo at 4:46 PM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
There are other resources that will become expensive as oil extraction is ramped down - Sulfur shortage: a potential resource crisis looming as the world decarbonises
tldr: 80% of sulphur (necessary for sulphuric acid used for fertilizer manufacture among many other things) is a waste product from oil refining.
Not a reason to delay reducing oil production, but a sign that there will be costs associated that may take people by surprise.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:34 PM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
tldr: 80% of sulphur (necessary for sulphuric acid used for fertilizer manufacture among many other things) is a waste product from oil refining.
Not a reason to delay reducing oil production, but a sign that there will be costs associated that may take people by surprise.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:34 PM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
It doesn't seem like the Biden Administration really had much leverage, and I don't really see the benefit in expending a lot of political capital fighting against a project that apparently was extremely likely to go forward anyway.
The benefit of fighting some sort of doomed procedural defense seems… really questionable. Shit like that isn't free; it very likely would have cost some of the actual wins that the Administration managed to get (the offshore wind leases are huge, and required running roughshod over a whole bunch of deep-pocketed fuckwads from blue states in addition to the usual Axis of Corporate Evil suspects), and it would have made for pretty rough going when gas prices pop this summer—as they are almost certain to do—and Ma and Pa Kettle start losing their shit over how they're going to afford to fill up the F-350 (to say nothing about the jet skis).
And if you don't think the Republicans are going to try their hardest to make Biden absolutely and personally own inflation, whether it's milk, eggs, gasoline, or rub-n-tugs at the truck stop, you are not going to like the next election cycle at all. (And to head off a low-effort response: yes, the Republicans will freely lie; yes, they lie about everything; but not everyone is stupid enough to believe them all the time. Much rests on the plausibility of the lies, and there's no need to tee them up and hand them the right club to use. Publicly curtailing domestic petroleum production in the midst of painfully high inflation, when the country as a whole is still ravenously addicted to gas, seems like one of the few things that would give DeSantis a bigger boner than drafting a fresh torture-justification memo or drowning a puppy.)
Lest we forget: the alternative on the table to Biden wasn't AOC, it was Trump. The idea that there was some sort of viable path to the left of Biden is madness. It doesn't exist, and likely won't exist given how national elections work in the US. Your choices were, are, and will likely continue to be: milquetoast big-L Liberalism, or increasingly gloves-off Christian nationalist neo-fascism. ConocoPhillips gets its drilling permits either way, but the latter option also comes with a substantially higher chance of death camps.
If a handful of fait accompli oil wells is enough to make someone give up on voting next time around, I'd argue they're part of the problem, and here's hoping they live in a hard-blue state where their vote (or lack thereof) for President doesn't really matter anyway. They're still shit if they don't vote in local elections though.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:32 PM on March 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
The benefit of fighting some sort of doomed procedural defense seems… really questionable. Shit like that isn't free; it very likely would have cost some of the actual wins that the Administration managed to get (the offshore wind leases are huge, and required running roughshod over a whole bunch of deep-pocketed fuckwads from blue states in addition to the usual Axis of Corporate Evil suspects), and it would have made for pretty rough going when gas prices pop this summer—as they are almost certain to do—and Ma and Pa Kettle start losing their shit over how they're going to afford to fill up the F-350 (to say nothing about the jet skis).
And if you don't think the Republicans are going to try their hardest to make Biden absolutely and personally own inflation, whether it's milk, eggs, gasoline, or rub-n-tugs at the truck stop, you are not going to like the next election cycle at all. (And to head off a low-effort response: yes, the Republicans will freely lie; yes, they lie about everything; but not everyone is stupid enough to believe them all the time. Much rests on the plausibility of the lies, and there's no need to tee them up and hand them the right club to use. Publicly curtailing domestic petroleum production in the midst of painfully high inflation, when the country as a whole is still ravenously addicted to gas, seems like one of the few things that would give DeSantis a bigger boner than drafting a fresh torture-justification memo or drowning a puppy.)
Lest we forget: the alternative on the table to Biden wasn't AOC, it was Trump. The idea that there was some sort of viable path to the left of Biden is madness. It doesn't exist, and likely won't exist given how national elections work in the US. Your choices were, are, and will likely continue to be: milquetoast big-L Liberalism, or increasingly gloves-off Christian nationalist neo-fascism. ConocoPhillips gets its drilling permits either way, but the latter option also comes with a substantially higher chance of death camps.
If a handful of fait accompli oil wells is enough to make someone give up on voting next time around, I'd argue they're part of the problem, and here's hoping they live in a hard-blue state where their vote (or lack thereof) for President doesn't really matter anyway. They're still shit if they don't vote in local elections though.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:32 PM on March 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
Multiple true things:
1. This was disappointing
2. Biden has done good stuff on climate as well
3. Tonight I phonebanked with HRC* to push back on anti-trans bills in Tennessee and it really helped those feelings of doom. Not completely, but it felt better than doing nothing. Not climate related, but it's a cause I care about. https://mobilize.us/hrc/ has more opportunities if MeFites wanna join me.
*one big criticism of them in the past was that they didn't work on trans rights; they are now definitely and clearly working on trans rights
posted by pelvicsorcery at 11:05 PM on March 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
1. This was disappointing
2. Biden has done good stuff on climate as well
3. Tonight I phonebanked with HRC* to push back on anti-trans bills in Tennessee and it really helped those feelings of doom. Not completely, but it felt better than doing nothing. Not climate related, but it's a cause I care about. https://mobilize.us/hrc/ has more opportunities if MeFites wanna join me.
*one big criticism of them in the past was that they didn't work on trans rights; they are now definitely and clearly working on trans rights
posted by pelvicsorcery at 11:05 PM on March 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
Your choices were, are, and will likely continue to be: milquetoast big-L Liberalism, or increasingly gloves-off Christian nationalist neo-fascism. ConocoPhillips gets its drilling permits either way, but the latter option also comes with a substantially higher chance of death camps.
What's milquetoast big-L Liberalism doing to prevent the rise of fascism? Honestly, I'm kind of scared how casually institutions are just leaving things up to the voters to decide. I know "institutions won't save us" is a common refrain here on the blue, but I'd like to believe that the fate of our nation isn't dependent on some idealistic twentysomething not staying home next election because Biden approved more oil wells, just as I'd like to believe that it's against the law to support an armed insurrection and an organized storming of the Capitol.
I get that these kinds of decisions are borne out of realpolitik and compromises. Biden's an institutionist, and I think that's absolutely necessary for the continued function of our government. But it would way easier to not be disappointed by these necessary concessions to institutions if those institutions would bother protecting themselves from the Christo-fascist hordes that are at the gate.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:51 AM on March 15, 2023 [6 favorites]
What's milquetoast big-L Liberalism doing to prevent the rise of fascism? Honestly, I'm kind of scared how casually institutions are just leaving things up to the voters to decide. I know "institutions won't save us" is a common refrain here on the blue, but I'd like to believe that the fate of our nation isn't dependent on some idealistic twentysomething not staying home next election because Biden approved more oil wells, just as I'd like to believe that it's against the law to support an armed insurrection and an organized storming of the Capitol.
I get that these kinds of decisions are borne out of realpolitik and compromises. Biden's an institutionist, and I think that's absolutely necessary for the continued function of our government. But it would way easier to not be disappointed by these necessary concessions to institutions if those institutions would bother protecting themselves from the Christo-fascist hordes that are at the gate.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:51 AM on March 15, 2023 [6 favorites]
What's milquetoast big-L Liberalism doing to prevent the rise of fascism?
Basically just actively not doing fascism. Doing something to push it back is pie in the sky radicalism don'tchaknow.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:07 AM on March 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
Basically just actively not doing fascism. Doing something to push it back is pie in the sky radicalism don'tchaknow.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:07 AM on March 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
That and prosecuting many of the rioters, creating a public record through the efforts of the January 6th committee, etc.
posted by wierdo at 8:51 AM on March 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 8:51 AM on March 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
Didn't Biden's "climate deal" with Joe Manchin already pledge that every single drilling application and application to lease federal land for drilling would be rubber stamped?
Huh? No.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:34 AM on March 15, 2023
Huh? No.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:34 AM on March 15, 2023
@ArtW: The article attempts dismiss that population growth can be a mechanism for pollution. There could be a right wing framing that blames immigrants for all perceived problems, but it's absurd to just handwave away the issue of population growth as a factor that causes pollution. The Vice article you linked to also infers that North American population growth can be a problem because the trade by taking an immigrant from a poorer country (with energy efficient cities) to a rich country (that tends to be energy consumptive, especially because most rich countries have winters that require much more heating energy). How many ecofascists are blaming immigrants versus wanting a change in federal policy? If the federal governments don't have open borders and they do control the immigration intake, then why shouldn't that number be adjustable?
posted by DetriusXii at 9:42 AM on March 15, 2023
posted by DetriusXii at 9:42 AM on March 15, 2023
Unclear to me here if you think an excessive focus on population numbers and immigration isn’t an ecofascist concern or if you think they might have a point, tbh.
posted by Artw at 10:11 AM on March 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:11 AM on March 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
Should population numbers be looked at as a source of pollution or not? You used the adjective "excessive", but excessive is defined from a neoliberal framing. Should a non-excessive focus on population numbers and immigration be applied when addressing environmental concerns? If an excessive focus on population and immigration leads to ecofascism, then a non-excessive focus on population and immigration shouldn't lead to ecofascism. Would that be correct?
The article also implies that ecofascism involves mass murder: " eco-fascism as an ideology “which blames the demise of the environment on overpopulation, immigration, and over-industrialization, problems that followers think could be partly remedied through the mass murder of refugees in Western countries.” But it's not necessary to bring population down through mass murder, because the first world nations have domestic birth rates below replacement and human cloning is banned in society. If immigration is reduced, the population can age and then slowly shrink naturally. Would you agree or disagree with that?
posted by DetriusXii at 12:32 PM on March 15, 2023
The article also implies that ecofascism involves mass murder: " eco-fascism as an ideology “which blames the demise of the environment on overpopulation, immigration, and over-industrialization, problems that followers think could be partly remedied through the mass murder of refugees in Western countries.” But it's not necessary to bring population down through mass murder, because the first world nations have domestic birth rates below replacement and human cloning is banned in society. If immigration is reduced, the population can age and then slowly shrink naturally. Would you agree or disagree with that?
posted by DetriusXii at 12:32 PM on March 15, 2023
Mod note: One comment deleted, several more flagged but left for context. Lets avoid turning a post about an oil drilling deal become a back-and-forth about the ethics of immigration policy.
posted by loup (staff) at 1:11 PM on March 15, 2023
posted by loup (staff) at 1:11 PM on March 15, 2023
What's milquetoast big-L Liberalism doing to prevent the rise of fascism?
I think that's looking at it backwards. A lot of people are doing all they can, or all they feel like they can under current conditions, to prevent the rise of fascism. Milquetoast big-L Liberalism is the result, not the other way around.
You may not be satisfied with the result, but the lack of results is not necessarily indicative of a lack of effort. That result may just be all that is achievable, because the problem is just really hard.
There's a sizable contingent of Americans—in some places almost certainly the majority—who are entirely willing to give Actual Fascism a whirl. In addition, our political system is built, carefully and intentionally, to disproportionately empower rural populations over urban areas. Combine those two features and you have the political environment in which everything else takes place.
Absent a collective decision within the US left to reconsider its commitment to unilateral pacifism, "milquetoast Liberalism" probably is about as far as national politics will stretch.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:37 PM on March 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think that's looking at it backwards. A lot of people are doing all they can, or all they feel like they can under current conditions, to prevent the rise of fascism. Milquetoast big-L Liberalism is the result, not the other way around.
You may not be satisfied with the result, but the lack of results is not necessarily indicative of a lack of effort. That result may just be all that is achievable, because the problem is just really hard.
There's a sizable contingent of Americans—in some places almost certainly the majority—who are entirely willing to give Actual Fascism a whirl. In addition, our political system is built, carefully and intentionally, to disproportionately empower rural populations over urban areas. Combine those two features and you have the political environment in which everything else takes place.
Absent a collective decision within the US left to reconsider its commitment to unilateral pacifism, "milquetoast Liberalism" probably is about as far as national politics will stretch.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:37 PM on March 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
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posted by aleph at 8:25 AM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]