a lynch mob assembled to not lynch me but our democratic process
April 6, 2023 1:56 PM Subscribe
Reps. Gloria Johnson (D-Knoxville), Justin Jones (D-Nashville), and Justin Pearson (D-Memphis), now being called "The Tennessee Three," have faced expulsion from the TN General Assembly since Monday, for breaking decorum rules to join gun violence protestors (gift link) after they were not permitted to speak in the Chamber, on March 30, in the wake of the Covenant School shooting in Nashville on March 27.
Republicans voted to expel Rep. Justin Jones in a 72-25 vote. Votes expelling the other two lawmakers are expected to follow.
They used a bullhorn and spoke without being recognized, in violation of House chamber rules. Jones and Johnson were stripped of their committee assignments earlier this week (Pearson didn't have any). In addition to their seats, they will lose their health benefits.
Killed in the school shooting were students Evelyn Dieckhaus, William Kinney, and Hallie Scruggs, staff members Mike Hill, Katherine Koonce, and Cynthia Peak, and shooter (and former student) Audrey Elizabeth Hale, who police say was transgender (gift link), which Republicans have seized on to push even more anti-trans hysteria and hate. A planned march for LGBTQ+ rights in Nashville in response to the recently passed anti-trans and anti-drag bills was canceled, with organizers citing safety concerns.
The Republican response to the shooting is to arm teachers. Protestors (shown here using the Predators' goalie chant) continue to push legislators to enact gun safety legislation. The House Speaker called the protests "an insurrection."
Tennessee allows both concealed and unconcealed permitless carry of handguns with no required background checks or trainings. Barrett Firearms is headquartered in Murfreesboro, TN and Smith & Wesson is moving their headquarters to the state in late 2023.
County commissions in their districts would pick replacements to serve until special elections in several months. Johnson, Jones, and Pearson remain eligible to run again. (Unclear if the county commissions could choose to pick them as their own replacements.)
In the history of the state, only three previous expulsions have occurred, in 1866 ("for the contempt of the authority of this House"), 1980 (for accepting a bribe), and 2016 (for sexual misconduct). Previous votes for expulsion have all been bipartisan. The TN House of Representatives, at the time of the vote, comprised 75 Republicans and 23 Democrats (and a vacancy).
The title of this post is a quote from Justin Jones.
Republicans voted to expel Rep. Justin Jones in a 72-25 vote. Votes expelling the other two lawmakers are expected to follow.
They used a bullhorn and spoke without being recognized, in violation of House chamber rules. Jones and Johnson were stripped of their committee assignments earlier this week (Pearson didn't have any). In addition to their seats, they will lose their health benefits.
Killed in the school shooting were students Evelyn Dieckhaus, William Kinney, and Hallie Scruggs, staff members Mike Hill, Katherine Koonce, and Cynthia Peak, and shooter (and former student) Audrey Elizabeth Hale, who police say was transgender (gift link), which Republicans have seized on to push even more anti-trans hysteria and hate. A planned march for LGBTQ+ rights in Nashville in response to the recently passed anti-trans and anti-drag bills was canceled, with organizers citing safety concerns.
The Republican response to the shooting is to arm teachers. Protestors (shown here using the Predators' goalie chant) continue to push legislators to enact gun safety legislation. The House Speaker called the protests "an insurrection."
Tennessee allows both concealed and unconcealed permitless carry of handguns with no required background checks or trainings. Barrett Firearms is headquartered in Murfreesboro, TN and Smith & Wesson is moving their headquarters to the state in late 2023.
County commissions in their districts would pick replacements to serve until special elections in several months. Johnson, Jones, and Pearson remain eligible to run again. (Unclear if the county commissions could choose to pick them as their own replacements.)
In the history of the state, only three previous expulsions have occurred, in 1866 ("for the contempt of the authority of this House"), 1980 (for accepting a bribe), and 2016 (for sexual misconduct). Previous votes for expulsion have all been bipartisan. The TN House of Representatives, at the time of the vote, comprised 75 Republicans and 23 Democrats (and a vacancy).
The title of this post is a quote from Justin Jones.
Telling that GOP reps are comparing this to January 6th. Yeah, this was just like that.
posted by misterpatrick at 2:07 PM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by misterpatrick at 2:07 PM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
So in response to bullhorns, the republicans are going to arm more people because bullhorns are dangerous then double down with the hate agenda.
wow.
posted by clavdivs at 2:10 PM on April 6, 2023 [30 favorites]
wow.
posted by clavdivs at 2:10 PM on April 6, 2023 [30 favorites]
I’ve been following this story. Thanks for the background and details, I’ve been wondering about their replacements.
posted by bunderful at 2:13 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by bunderful at 2:13 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
It really seems like fascism is advancing quickly now.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:14 PM on April 6, 2023 [42 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 2:14 PM on April 6, 2023 [42 favorites]
From the US News link:
posted by box at 2:14 PM on April 6, 2023 [30 favorites]
County commissions in their districts get to pick replacements to serve until a special election can be scheduled.Shelby County (Memphis) and Davidson County (Nashville) are both pretty solidly blue (Knox County not so much). I don't know Justin Pearson, but I hope the Shelby County Commission promptly reappoints him.
Any expelled lawmakers would be eligible for appointment back to their seats. They would also be eligible to run in the special election. And under the Tennessee Constitution, lawmakers cannot be expelled for the same offense twice.
posted by box at 2:14 PM on April 6, 2023 [30 favorites]
I'm guessing that even in this bastion of freedom one is not allowed to bring a gun into the Tennessee General Assembly?
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:21 PM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:21 PM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
Always easy to make someone else's plans for them, but I'd like to see all of them use the attention to talk about gun control rather than the incident and expulsion. The latter I see as Rs being Rs, but the former is the real issue at hand. They can just answer the question they wish they were asked, as they say.
posted by rhizome at 2:22 PM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 2:22 PM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's just like R's to latch onto the word insurrection, properly applied to the J-6th mob, and reframe it to be used anytime dems now do something in protest. both to give their base a sense of retributive ire (See! both sides have insurrectionists!) and to dilute the meaning for when the rest of us are forced to use it the next time these fascists try to overthrow legitimate seats of power.
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:56 PM on April 6, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:56 PM on April 6, 2023 [22 favorites]
Gun ownership is a cancer on peaceful, democratic society. The display in Tennessee is just a symptom of the fascist society that gun owners want, if it will protect their toys.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:04 PM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:04 PM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
The GOP--officially against 1st amendment rights, but in favor of child molestation, domestic violence, and public urination.
posted by stevis23 at 3:05 PM on April 6, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by stevis23 at 3:05 PM on April 6, 2023 [19 favorites]
The motion to expel Gloria Johnson fails by one vote. I'm very happy... but oh, the racism.
posted by kimdog at 3:24 PM on April 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by kimdog at 3:24 PM on April 6, 2023 [14 favorites]
Yeah, none of them should have been expelled, but the middle aged white lady surviving on the argument that she did not actually shout is some darkly hilarious shit.
posted by the primroses were over at 3:37 PM on April 6, 2023 [28 favorites]
posted by the primroses were over at 3:37 PM on April 6, 2023 [28 favorites]
"Gov. Bill Lee signs controversial bill increasing punishment for protest-related offenses into law. (2020)
posted by clavdivs at 3:49 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
"State Senator Raumesh Akbari is concerned about the far reaching affects of the law that also includes a mandatory 45-day sentence for aggravated rioting and boosts the fine for blocking highway access to emergency vehicles, which happened in Memphis on I-55 during Black Lives Matter protests in May.We’re not talking about folks who are committing violent acts or that are breaking the law,” Akbari said. “There is information in that legislation that will make it a crime to disrupt a meeting. Disrupting a meeting could be chanting out of a meeting.”
posted by clavdivs at 3:49 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I heard Justin Jones speak at the Nashville City Hall vigil last week, and he is the real deal. Charisma is a rare thing, but when you see it, you know it instantly. He has it.
The only good thing about his expulsion is that it will catapult him to national attention even sooner than would otherwise have been the case.
posted by verstegan at 4:15 PM on April 6, 2023 [31 favorites]
The only good thing about his expulsion is that it will catapult him to national attention even sooner than would otherwise have been the case.
posted by verstegan at 4:15 PM on April 6, 2023 [31 favorites]
Jones is my rep.
I first encountered him six years ago today, when I found out that Rev. Dr. William Barber was speaking locally. I thought it was “just” going to be a speech, but it turned out to be moral action training, which started from the place that everyone in the room was prepared to be arrested for a cause. It was a lot!
Ever since then I have been wrestling with what it means to put your body on the line for justice. But the other takeaway from that day was recognizing that Jones, also in attendance that day as a divinity student, was the real deal. He has been on my radar ever since then, as an activist who has been at the forefront for several protests and a constant gadfly at the Capitol. I actually didn’t vote for him in his primary because I thought he would be more effective as an activist, but I was thrilled when he won, and as his constituent, I am in full support of his actions. I’ve already requested my council member reappoint him, and I’ll happily support him in the special election should he choose to run again.
If there is a silver lining in any of this, it’s the national attention on the Tennessee Three. I expect great things from Jones and Pearson in the future, and Johnson in whatever time she still serves.
It has also been heartening to see so many Tennesseans showing up at the capitol. When people say “Throw the whole state away,” remember that there are people here fighting the good fight.
posted by timestep at 4:31 PM on April 6, 2023 [75 favorites]
I first encountered him six years ago today, when I found out that Rev. Dr. William Barber was speaking locally. I thought it was “just” going to be a speech, but it turned out to be moral action training, which started from the place that everyone in the room was prepared to be arrested for a cause. It was a lot!
Ever since then I have been wrestling with what it means to put your body on the line for justice. But the other takeaway from that day was recognizing that Jones, also in attendance that day as a divinity student, was the real deal. He has been on my radar ever since then, as an activist who has been at the forefront for several protests and a constant gadfly at the Capitol. I actually didn’t vote for him in his primary because I thought he would be more effective as an activist, but I was thrilled when he won, and as his constituent, I am in full support of his actions. I’ve already requested my council member reappoint him, and I’ll happily support him in the special election should he choose to run again.
If there is a silver lining in any of this, it’s the national attention on the Tennessee Three. I expect great things from Jones and Pearson in the future, and Johnson in whatever time she still serves.
It has also been heartening to see so many Tennesseans showing up at the capitol. When people say “Throw the whole state away,” remember that there are people here fighting the good fight.
posted by timestep at 4:31 PM on April 6, 2023 [75 favorites]
So when is Biden sending in the National Guard
posted by nushustu at 5:20 PM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by nushustu at 5:20 PM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
Why must this all be so difficult? How can they not see their own hypocrisy and hatred?
I hate that we've come to this point. They silence and oust those who disagree with them. Do the democrats now stoop to that level? Can we ever get back to civility?
I am so sad to see this turn of events where people still think the U.S. is 'the greatest country in the world,' when the truth is so far from that.
posted by hydra77 at 5:27 PM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
I hate that we've come to this point. They silence and oust those who disagree with them. Do the democrats now stoop to that level? Can we ever get back to civility?
I am so sad to see this turn of events where people still think the U.S. is 'the greatest country in the world,' when the truth is so far from that.
posted by hydra77 at 5:27 PM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
I was just thinking, per Article IV Section IV of the Constitution, every state in the Union is to be a Republican form of government.
Now that Tennessee has dispensed with proper representation, they cease to be a state; are instead to be a territory, under federal administration, until such time as they can be reconsidered for admission as a state.
On a slightly related note, while generally Democrats are too craven to do this, what goes around eventually comes around. Maybe we can expel all the GOP from the legislatures of Oregon and California.... after all, why not?
posted by LeRoienJaune at 5:42 PM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Now that Tennessee has dispensed with proper representation, they cease to be a state; are instead to be a territory, under federal administration, until such time as they can be reconsidered for admission as a state.
On a slightly related note, while generally Democrats are too craven to do this, what goes around eventually comes around. Maybe we can expel all the GOP from the legislatures of Oregon and California.... after all, why not?
posted by LeRoienJaune at 5:42 PM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I don't want to go all conspiracy theory, but could it be that some genius invented a stupidity ray and installed them in red state Republican cloakrooms around the country?
Abortion bans where 70% of the voters are against them? Unlicensed and unchecked weapon sales, as well as no license needed carry laws, with loony shooters rampant? Throw out duly elected representatives for using a bullhorn? Impeach a newly elected state supreme court judge for literally no reason?
Do they really think voters won't notice?
posted by Marky at 5:56 PM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Abortion bans where 70% of the voters are against them? Unlicensed and unchecked weapon sales, as well as no license needed carry laws, with loony shooters rampant? Throw out duly elected representatives for using a bullhorn? Impeach a newly elected state supreme court judge for literally no reason?
Do they really think voters won't notice?
posted by Marky at 5:56 PM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Do they really think voters won't notice?
They're confident what the voters want won't ultimately matter. Make of that what you will.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:30 PM on April 6, 2023 [41 favorites]
They're confident what the voters want won't ultimately matter. Make of that what you will.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:30 PM on April 6, 2023 [41 favorites]
The footage of kids chanting "you ban books, you ban drag, kids are still in body bags" is amazing and inspiring and chilling all at once.
posted by gingerbeer at 6:45 PM on April 6, 2023 [62 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 6:45 PM on April 6, 2023 [62 favorites]
Tennessee’s Republican-led House expels 2 Democratic lawmakers over gun reform protest, fails in bid to oust a third:
The vote over rules violations for Jones split along party lines 72-25, while the vote in Pearson’s case was 69-26. Johnson’s vote was 65-30. Expulsion from the House requires a two-thirds majority of the total membership.posted by joannemerriam at 6:50 PM on April 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
...After surviving her vote, Johnson, who is White, was asked why there was a difference in the outcome for her and Jones, who is Black-Filipino.”It might have to do with the color of our skin,” she said.
Those speeches by the Tennessee Three and others are powerful! Hopefully that they will ignite help ignite fury and remembrance.Wonder how long until there will be any corporate mouth noises, and just maybe, action. I have to say MSNBC is going all out on coverage of this.
posted by blue shadows at 7:43 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by blue shadows at 7:43 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Why must this all be so difficult? How can they not see their own hypocrisy and hatred?
To them, it's not hypocrisy. They genuinely believe that anyone who is not white, able-bodied, and male is less than human.
Viewed through that distorted lens, all ideas fundamentally change their meaning.
When they say the words love, freedom, honesty, integrity, justice, purity, child, woman, man, in fact, when they say any word, it means something fundamentally different from when you say those words.
That's one of the reasons why arguing with such a person and pointing out flaws in their logic or contradictions in their value system will never work.
They will react like I do, if someone tried to convince me (even in the most rational and science based way) that anyone who is not white, able-bodied, and male is less than human.
I'm not arguing "both sides" here, in case it sounds like that! Not at all.
(apologies for the derail)
posted by Zumbador at 9:31 PM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
To them, it's not hypocrisy. They genuinely believe that anyone who is not white, able-bodied, and male is less than human.
Viewed through that distorted lens, all ideas fundamentally change their meaning.
When they say the words love, freedom, honesty, integrity, justice, purity, child, woman, man, in fact, when they say any word, it means something fundamentally different from when you say those words.
That's one of the reasons why arguing with such a person and pointing out flaws in their logic or contradictions in their value system will never work.
They will react like I do, if someone tried to convince me (even in the most rational and science based way) that anyone who is not white, able-bodied, and male is less than human.
I'm not arguing "both sides" here, in case it sounds like that! Not at all.
(apologies for the derail)
posted by Zumbador at 9:31 PM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
reCaptcha
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Check the boxes that look like those expelled from the TN General Assembly
posted by adept256 at 9:41 PM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
⬜⬜⬜⬜
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Check the boxes that look like those expelled from the TN General Assembly
posted by adept256 at 9:41 PM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
It doesn't matter that people* die, the real evil is the protests that point out somebody really should have the human decency to do something about it! Instead of doubling down, wearing gun pins and passing horrible laws of course.
(*Women, minorities, children, especially the 'scarier' minorities)
And the stupidity ray is Fox news and conservative radio and the rhetoric of, well, white power
posted by Jacen at 10:00 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
(*Women, minorities, children, especially the 'scarier' minorities)
And the stupidity ray is Fox news and conservative radio and the rhetoric of, well, white power
posted by Jacen at 10:00 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
How can they not see their own hypocrisy and hatred?
As ever, the hypocrisy is the point. Rules for thee but not for me. Exerting cruel power over the powerless is what their base eats up at this point. Your complaint that they're not playing fair is just music to their ears.
posted by Candleman at 11:16 PM on April 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
As ever, the hypocrisy is the point. Rules for thee but not for me. Exerting cruel power over the powerless is what their base eats up at this point. Your complaint that they're not playing fair is just music to their ears.
posted by Candleman at 11:16 PM on April 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
I wonder what players on the Grizzlies, Titans, and 'Vols' will have to say about this.
As I understand it, there are still open transfer portal dates ahead for college football and basketball players.
posted by jamjam at 11:27 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
As I understand it, there are still open transfer portal dates ahead for college football and basketball players.
posted by jamjam at 11:27 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
And all of the protest from the Tennessee left is met with 'your boos mean nothing to us, we've seen what you cheer for.' Redstate.com headline: "Republicans Grow a Backbone,Officially Expel Tennessee Democrat Who Led Insurrection". Yeah, they went there.
Tonight we moved 1 minute forward on the 'civil war' doomsday clock, where midnight is when the left will face a stark choice between survival and staying true to its values. Let us hope and pray it never comes to that.
posted by zaixfeep at 11:32 PM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Tonight we moved 1 minute forward on the 'civil war' doomsday clock, where midnight is when the left will face a stark choice between survival and staying true to its values. Let us hope and pray it never comes to that.
posted by zaixfeep at 11:32 PM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Tonight we moved 1 minute forward on the 'civil war' doomsday clock, where midnight is when the left will face a stark choice between survival and staying true to its values.
Oh come on. Didn't someone already say in this thread that a) there's going to be a special election to replace Jones and Johnston, and b) there's nothing to prevent them from running again at that election or in future, and c) they come from blue districts, and d) they can't be expelled twice for the same offense, and e) there was a huge youth turnout protesting this action today?
Even if we did move 1 minute forward to Civil War today, the special election will move it back, and then the next general election will move it further back when a bunch of pissed-off kids vote a couple of the conservative fuckers out.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:51 PM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Oh come on. Didn't someone already say in this thread that a) there's going to be a special election to replace Jones and Johnston, and b) there's nothing to prevent them from running again at that election or in future, and c) they come from blue districts, and d) they can't be expelled twice for the same offense, and e) there was a huge youth turnout protesting this action today?
Even if we did move 1 minute forward to Civil War today, the special election will move it back, and then the next general election will move it further back when a bunch of pissed-off kids vote a couple of the conservative fuckers out.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:51 PM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Even if we did move 1 minute forward to Civil War today, the special election will move it back
It is very naive to think that a special election will fix breaking the seal of flagrantly disenfranchising voters by expelling politicians for joining a protest. This will not be the last time that Republicans do this.
posted by Candleman at 12:41 AM on April 7, 2023 [18 favorites]
It is very naive to think that a special election will fix breaking the seal of flagrantly disenfranchising voters by expelling politicians for joining a protest. This will not be the last time that Republicans do this.
posted by Candleman at 12:41 AM on April 7, 2023 [18 favorites]
Empress, when your expectation comes to pass, I will take your 'you told me so' in joyous humility and move the minute hand back, say, 30 seconds. Because I also agree with Candleman that this foul, diseased and corrupt precedent being set in the face of what should have been insurmountable principled opposition on the grounds of due process is the essence of the damage done today and that bell cannot be un-rung.
posted by zaixfeep at 1:04 AM on April 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 1:04 AM on April 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
and then the next general election will move it further back
Hey TN Mefites, do you trust the TN legislators ansd election officials to permit that to happen after today? I'd love to hear some reassuring news.
posted by zaixfeep at 1:07 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Hey TN Mefites, do you trust the TN legislators ansd election officials to permit that to happen after today? I'd love to hear some reassuring news.
posted by zaixfeep at 1:07 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
It is very naive to think that a special election will fix breaking the seal of flagrantly disenfranchising voters by expelling politicians for joining a protest.
And it is equally as nihilistic to think that doomsaying like this is what's going to encourage people to take action to stop this.
You do want people to stop this, right? You do want someone to stop this from happening, right? Because sitting there like Bill Paxton in Aliens all "That's it! Game over, man!" will actually discourage the very vocal and very angry new voters who've just seen this happen and are pissed the fuck off.
I don't know about you, but I want to channel those kids' rage into action - "so, they have to have an election to replace them. So get out the vote, tell your friends, bother your parents, go take this back. And then during the next general election, do it again."
As evil as these fuckers are, they ARE still shackled by the fact that a special election has to happen to replace them, and a general election regularly has to happen after that, and any one of the assholes who did this can be voted out in any general election. And while it seems to be YOUR expectation that the governor of Tennessee has already declared martial law and cancelled the democratic process, I have to say that I"m not seeing any reports that that's happened.
They're weasley fuckers, but they're weaselly fuckers who can be taken down with a process that is open to every citizen, provided those citizens are motivated to act. Bewailing that we are "one minute closer to Civil War Doomsday" is not a motivational statement.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:20 AM on April 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
And it is equally as nihilistic to think that doomsaying like this is what's going to encourage people to take action to stop this.
You do want people to stop this, right? You do want someone to stop this from happening, right? Because sitting there like Bill Paxton in Aliens all "That's it! Game over, man!" will actually discourage the very vocal and very angry new voters who've just seen this happen and are pissed the fuck off.
I don't know about you, but I want to channel those kids' rage into action - "so, they have to have an election to replace them. So get out the vote, tell your friends, bother your parents, go take this back. And then during the next general election, do it again."
As evil as these fuckers are, they ARE still shackled by the fact that a special election has to happen to replace them, and a general election regularly has to happen after that, and any one of the assholes who did this can be voted out in any general election. And while it seems to be YOUR expectation that the governor of Tennessee has already declared martial law and cancelled the democratic process, I have to say that I"m not seeing any reports that that's happened.
They're weasley fuckers, but they're weaselly fuckers who can be taken down with a process that is open to every citizen, provided those citizens are motivated to act. Bewailing that we are "one minute closer to Civil War Doomsday" is not a motivational statement.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:20 AM on April 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
They're weasley fuckers,
posted by EmpressCallipygos
They're a lot worse than that.
provided those citizens are motivated to act.
How much more motivation do they need?
posted by Pouteria at 2:36 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos
They're a lot worse than that.
provided those citizens are motivated to act.
How much more motivation do they need?
posted by Pouteria at 2:36 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
And it is equally as nihilistic to think that doomsaying like this is what's going to encourage people to take action to stop this.
Point well made, EC. Yep, I do sound like I'm doomsaying. I am convinced and I deeply dread that the adversary will not stop for anything less than massive physical obstruction, confrontation or even force.
So, here now a correctiive disclaimer: To all -- Please don't ever take what I've written as reason to give up. Rather, take it as my earnest plea to think harder, find ways to fight back more creatively and effectively. Look at how the other side fights and succeeds, and adapt it so it fits your values and ethics. In fact, I myself have several ideas, but as another poster said elsewhere on MeFi a while back, I know exactly where I'm posting. In any event, "Good luck, we're all counting on you" :-) ...
posted by zaixfeep at 3:47 AM on April 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
Point well made, EC. Yep, I do sound like I'm doomsaying. I am convinced and I deeply dread that the adversary will not stop for anything less than massive physical obstruction, confrontation or even force.
So, here now a correctiive disclaimer: To all -- Please don't ever take what I've written as reason to give up. Rather, take it as my earnest plea to think harder, find ways to fight back more creatively and effectively. Look at how the other side fights and succeeds, and adapt it so it fits your values and ethics. In fact, I myself have several ideas, but as another poster said elsewhere on MeFi a while back, I know exactly where I'm posting. In any event, "Good luck, we're all counting on you" :-) ...
posted by zaixfeep at 3:47 AM on April 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
How much more motivation do they need?
Why say anything that would make them hesitate?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:57 AM on April 7, 2023
Why say anything that would make them hesitate?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:57 AM on April 7, 2023
And:
I am convinced and I deeply dread that the adversary will not stop for anything less than massive physical obstruction, confrontation or even force.
And since this is on a state level, please remember that there is a FEDERAL government that can step in and stop this physical obstruction in the still very highly unlikely occasion this comes to pass.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:59 AM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I am convinced and I deeply dread that the adversary will not stop for anything less than massive physical obstruction, confrontation or even force.
And since this is on a state level, please remember that there is a FEDERAL government that can step in and stop this physical obstruction in the still very highly unlikely occasion this comes to pass.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:59 AM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Fair enough, EC. You have the last word and I'm dropping out of this discussion. Cheers!
posted by zaixfeep at 4:41 AM on April 7, 2023
posted by zaixfeep at 4:41 AM on April 7, 2023
d) they can't be expelled twice for the same offense,
This isn't a meaningful restriction because having no shame and being hypocrites they can always find a different reason to expel them again. Whether it is ridiculous like the wrong crease in their pants or nebulous like taking the wrong tone during a debate. And the Republican voters will brush it off the ridiculousness with "They were expelled already, they shouldn't have come back".
And having a representative revolve in and out is a net win for them. It takes a few hours of their time to expel someone and it takes weeks or months to campaign the special election consuming not only money but also volunteer hours and voter enthusiasm. And the expelled members lack access to their official office which degrades the effectiveness of their opposition. Sure everyone is all fired up this time but each cycle will lower the outrage until the only headline is "TN expels yet another member" on the internet equivalent of page B14.
Also the language is being corrupted so that when some violent group actually tries mounting an insurrection they will be able to say "it's nothing the Democrats didn't try" and when a member and participant is expelled the GOP can just appoint and elect them back in neutering essentially the only political defense available to thwart bad actors.
Anyways this isn't the final nail in the coffin of representative democracy in TN or the USA but it sure is a nail. It'll be interesting to see if any of the people who voted for this fail re-election.
posted by Mitheral at 4:59 AM on April 7, 2023 [14 favorites]
This isn't a meaningful restriction because having no shame and being hypocrites they can always find a different reason to expel them again. Whether it is ridiculous like the wrong crease in their pants or nebulous like taking the wrong tone during a debate. And the Republican voters will brush it off the ridiculousness with "They were expelled already, they shouldn't have come back".
And having a representative revolve in and out is a net win for them. It takes a few hours of their time to expel someone and it takes weeks or months to campaign the special election consuming not only money but also volunteer hours and voter enthusiasm. And the expelled members lack access to their official office which degrades the effectiveness of their opposition. Sure everyone is all fired up this time but each cycle will lower the outrage until the only headline is "TN expels yet another member" on the internet equivalent of page B14.
Also the language is being corrupted so that when some violent group actually tries mounting an insurrection they will be able to say "it's nothing the Democrats didn't try" and when a member and participant is expelled the GOP can just appoint and elect them back in neutering essentially the only political defense available to thwart bad actors.
Anyways this isn't the final nail in the coffin of representative democracy in TN or the USA but it sure is a nail. It'll be interesting to see if any of the people who voted for this fail re-election.
posted by Mitheral at 4:59 AM on April 7, 2023 [14 favorites]
Some cheering news this morning:
Because the 2024 general election is more than 12 months away, Pearson and Jones' districts will hold special elections to fill the seats. Their respective county commissions can also choose to appoint an interim lawmaker, who would serve until a special election is held. Jones' district has already said that it plans to appoint Jones himself as the "interim" lawmaker, and there are signs that Pearson's district plans the same. It is very likely both men will return to the Tennessee legislature by the end of the month; and both men are free to run in the special elections as well.
And for the record: I'd heard that this might be the plan yesterday, and this was what fueled my earlier comments, as opposed to a desire to "have the last word".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:18 AM on April 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
Because the 2024 general election is more than 12 months away, Pearson and Jones' districts will hold special elections to fill the seats. Their respective county commissions can also choose to appoint an interim lawmaker, who would serve until a special election is held. Jones' district has already said that it plans to appoint Jones himself as the "interim" lawmaker, and there are signs that Pearson's district plans the same. It is very likely both men will return to the Tennessee legislature by the end of the month; and both men are free to run in the special elections as well.
And for the record: I'd heard that this might be the plan yesterday, and this was what fueled my earlier comments, as opposed to a desire to "have the last word".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:18 AM on April 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
And since this is on a state level, please remember that there is a FEDERAL government that can step in and stop this physical obstruction in the still very highly unlikely occasion this comes to pass
Not with Merrick Garland as AG.
posted by Gadarene at 6:58 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Not with Merrick Garland as AG.
posted by Gadarene at 6:58 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
As I was grabbing info for a comment in the Clarence Thomas thread, I spotted something derail-ish for that one but appropriate for here:
Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), who has represented Newtown and Sandy Hook and fought for laws to reduce gun violence, set up an ActBlue link to support Tenn. legislators Justin Jones and Justin Turner, ousted for supporting the gun violence protesters.
In just one night they've raised $252,000 to support them in the special election and re-take their seats. If you'd care to donate, here's a direct link. Contributions will be split evenly between the two.
posted by martin q blank at 7:00 AM on April 7, 2023 [9 favorites]
Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), who has represented Newtown and Sandy Hook and fought for laws to reduce gun violence, set up an ActBlue link to support Tenn. legislators Justin Jones and Justin Turner, ousted for supporting the gun violence protesters.
In just one night they've raised $252,000 to support them in the special election and re-take their seats. If you'd care to donate, here's a direct link. Contributions will be split evenly between the two.
posted by martin q blank at 7:00 AM on April 7, 2023 [9 favorites]
Is the Democratic Party suing them? This is so vile, partisan and violates their freedom to speak out.
posted by theora55 at 7:30 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 7:30 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Hey TN Mefites, do you trust the TN legislators ansd election officials to permit that to happen after today? I'd love to hear some reassuring news.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:07 AM on April 7
I'm in Nashville, and I expect the Republican supermajority to be craven and terrible, but I do still trust the non-partisan civil servants to do their jobs, for the most part. It wouldn't shock me if it came down to one civil servant and they used their power to unfairly keep Republicans in power. But I would still be surprised if there was any kind of civil servant/election official collusion to do so.
Like for instance, the Republican supermajority in the state leg decided quite recently to cut Nashville's city council in half. The law supposedly applies to the whole state, but only affects Nashville. It's obviously retaliation for us refusing to allow the 2024 Republican National Convention to come here. Nashvillains who pay any attention to local politics are pretty salty about it. Plus, of course, it's a big expense and source of confusion right before our August 3, 2023 Metropolitan General Election - the qualifying deadline for candidates is May 18 and we'll have the new districts finalized by this Monday, so potential candidates have like five weeks to prep and get signatures and whathaveyou (at-large candidates are already campaigning but the only stuff I've seen from district candidates has been from incumbents, and they are pissed). It's thrown everything into confusion.
But I trust the city planners to draw the redistricting lines relatively fairly. (Not, like, 100% trust, I did look at the maps, and there were some choices I would have made differently but nothing that looked malicious or weird.) We'll see if I'm right about this after the election, I suppose.
posted by joannemerriam at 8:04 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 3:07 AM on April 7
I'm in Nashville, and I expect the Republican supermajority to be craven and terrible, but I do still trust the non-partisan civil servants to do their jobs, for the most part. It wouldn't shock me if it came down to one civil servant and they used their power to unfairly keep Republicans in power. But I would still be surprised if there was any kind of civil servant/election official collusion to do so.
Like for instance, the Republican supermajority in the state leg decided quite recently to cut Nashville's city council in half. The law supposedly applies to the whole state, but only affects Nashville. It's obviously retaliation for us refusing to allow the 2024 Republican National Convention to come here. Nashvillains who pay any attention to local politics are pretty salty about it. Plus, of course, it's a big expense and source of confusion right before our August 3, 2023 Metropolitan General Election - the qualifying deadline for candidates is May 18 and we'll have the new districts finalized by this Monday, so potential candidates have like five weeks to prep and get signatures and whathaveyou (at-large candidates are already campaigning but the only stuff I've seen from district candidates has been from incumbents, and they are pissed). It's thrown everything into confusion.
But I trust the city planners to draw the redistricting lines relatively fairly. (Not, like, 100% trust, I did look at the maps, and there were some choices I would have made differently but nothing that looked malicious or weird.) We'll see if I'm right about this after the election, I suppose.
posted by joannemerriam at 8:04 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
A bill that would allow county clerks and officiants to refuse solemnizing marriages based on personal belief passed the Tennessee House of Representatives on Monday.
posted by achrise at 8:57 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by achrise at 8:57 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Thanks for pulling this together. The videos I've seen of the Tennessee three, and the young people chanting at the statehouse have given me hope, understanding full well the pessimism expressed in this thread. It's taken us forty years to get to this point, and it's going to take time to get out of this hellhole of GOP dominance in a lot of state legislatures.
But as AOC wrote this morning, Gen-Z is coming and they don't play.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:01 AM on April 7, 2023 [8 favorites]
But as AOC wrote this morning, Gen-Z is coming and they don't play.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:01 AM on April 7, 2023 [8 favorites]
She's right. In the late 60s, racist white southern men had a particular way of dealing with black men like Jones and Pearson and I had a lot of fear for them last night. But the racists counted on a much larger base of support back then. I hope and believe that's not there anymore, and that the kids are on the right path and are not going to let it be that way this time. Omnipresent cameras and the Internet are going to keep letting the world see what these guys are trying to do, and I don't think the world will let them get away with it anymore.
posted by bink at 11:31 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by bink at 11:31 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
There's one ongoing narrative of American politics that goes: "So what if American voters are finally trending more to the left? Anti-democratic measures are kicking in far more quickly than the voters are trending. America is over!"
And there's another narrative, entirely inverse to that narrative, that goes: "The anti-democratic measures in question are partly why America is being driven aggressively to the left. The voters see this shit, and they don't like it."
Republicans haven't had to resort to measures this extreme until recently because they haven't had to. Yes, it's alarming and disgusting that they're going there now, but it's also a sign of serious desperation. And they're getting increasingly desperate, because they're losing worse and worse and worse.
Tennessee, for instance, is one of the reddest states in America. Yet Pearson and Jones got voted in nonetheless, and—three months into their political careers—they suddenly have a national platform. Students are out protesting in their name. People who've never been political before are organizing, forming connections, making plans, because the Republicans couldn't help but act so petty and so spiteful that they pissed off a set of voters that infamously doesn't usually vote.
Was Tennessee in danger of passing gun control laws? Fucking Tennessee? Of course it wasn't. And a saner Republican party would have let the Democrats do their protest, called them "obnoxious and unserious," and let demotivation and despair set in. But no: they had to go to absolutely puerile lengths to try and "teach a lesson," and now the entire nation knows two of the Tennessee Dems' youngest and most charismatic politicians' names.
Will Tennessee go blue in 2024? Not likely. But if anything is going to plant the seeds that let Democrats make meaningful progress in a state like that, it's outrages like this one.
The Republican party does shit like this because they're weak, scared, and stupid. And things like this will only make them weaker, dumber, and more desperate. They'll take worse measures than this one, almost certainly, but the story isn't just that fascism's on the rise or what-have-you. That's one possible narrative. The concurrent one is that this is a political party in its death throes, resorting to more and more panicked measures in its hopes to regain a control over the nation that it will never have again. And it's things like this that will seal their fate.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 11:44 AM on April 7, 2023 [36 favorites]
And there's another narrative, entirely inverse to that narrative, that goes: "The anti-democratic measures in question are partly why America is being driven aggressively to the left. The voters see this shit, and they don't like it."
Republicans haven't had to resort to measures this extreme until recently because they haven't had to. Yes, it's alarming and disgusting that they're going there now, but it's also a sign of serious desperation. And they're getting increasingly desperate, because they're losing worse and worse and worse.
Tennessee, for instance, is one of the reddest states in America. Yet Pearson and Jones got voted in nonetheless, and—three months into their political careers—they suddenly have a national platform. Students are out protesting in their name. People who've never been political before are organizing, forming connections, making plans, because the Republicans couldn't help but act so petty and so spiteful that they pissed off a set of voters that infamously doesn't usually vote.
Was Tennessee in danger of passing gun control laws? Fucking Tennessee? Of course it wasn't. And a saner Republican party would have let the Democrats do their protest, called them "obnoxious and unserious," and let demotivation and despair set in. But no: they had to go to absolutely puerile lengths to try and "teach a lesson," and now the entire nation knows two of the Tennessee Dems' youngest and most charismatic politicians' names.
Will Tennessee go blue in 2024? Not likely. But if anything is going to plant the seeds that let Democrats make meaningful progress in a state like that, it's outrages like this one.
The Republican party does shit like this because they're weak, scared, and stupid. And things like this will only make them weaker, dumber, and more desperate. They'll take worse measures than this one, almost certainly, but the story isn't just that fascism's on the rise or what-have-you. That's one possible narrative. The concurrent one is that this is a political party in its death throes, resorting to more and more panicked measures in its hopes to regain a control over the nation that it will never have again. And it's things like this that will seal their fate.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 11:44 AM on April 7, 2023 [36 favorites]
The concurrent one is that this is a political party in its death throes, resorting to more and more panicked measures in its hopes to regain a control over the nation that it will never have again. And it's things like this that will seal their fate.
That is certainly what I am hoping for. But it is also true that when a political entity has (or thinks it has) nothing left to lose is when it is at its most dangerous, and when it can do the most damage, even if it ultimately loses.
Maybe the greatest strength of the USA is its ability to renew and reinvent itself from time to time, to rise above the confines of history, to break with precedent and tradition. But that is also not guaranteed and it is being tested real freaking hard this time around.
posted by Pouteria at 2:53 PM on April 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
That is certainly what I am hoping for. But it is also true that when a political entity has (or thinks it has) nothing left to lose is when it is at its most dangerous, and when it can do the most damage, even if it ultimately loses.
Maybe the greatest strength of the USA is its ability to renew and reinvent itself from time to time, to rise above the confines of history, to break with precedent and tradition. But that is also not guaranteed and it is being tested real freaking hard this time around.
posted by Pouteria at 2:53 PM on April 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
Pouteria: absolutely. This is a terrifying time to live through. So it's not that I blithely assume we'll all be okay (which would be counterproductive)—it's that I try and remember that better outcomes are possible, since it (a) makes fighting for them worth it and (b) keeps me succumbing to paralyzing anxiety and despair.
(Leaving me with regular old day-to-day anxiety and despair. You know, the healthy kind.)
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 3:49 PM on April 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
(Leaving me with regular old day-to-day anxiety and despair. You know, the healthy kind.)
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 3:49 PM on April 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
A Shelby County commissioner told FOX13 on Friday that Nashville leaders are threatening to take away funding from Memphis and other Shelby County projects if the county commission decides to reinstate expelled state Rep. Justin J. Pearson.
posted by Etrigan at 4:50 PM on April 7, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 4:50 PM on April 7, 2023 [9 favorites]
(Leaving me with regular old day-to-day anxiety and despair. You know, the healthy kind.)
Ah, the good ol' days. :-)
posted by Pouteria at 4:50 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ah, the good ol' days. :-)
posted by Pouteria at 4:50 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Some Backstory on the Tennessee House Confrontation (Talking Points Memo)
But the whole saga that unfolded in recent days is much richer and more wide-ranging when you know some of backstory from the last half dozen years. Both men, but especially Jones, have been jousting with these grandees of the state capitol from outside its doors for years.posted by kingless at 8:55 AM on April 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
The Nashville Metro Council voted to reinstate Justin Jones today, and the Shelby County Commission (13 members, 4 Republicans) is expected to do the same for Justin Pearson.
The article notes that Jones was reinstated before the state legislature had time to remove his name from his office door.
posted by box at 2:51 PM on April 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
The article notes that Jones was reinstated before the state legislature had time to remove his name from his office door.
posted by box at 2:51 PM on April 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
The article notes that Jones was reinstated before the state legislature had time to remove his name from his office door.
Well, that's just good fiscal sense is what that is.
posted by Etrigan at 2:53 PM on April 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
Well, that's just good fiscal sense is what that is.
posted by Etrigan at 2:53 PM on April 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
Justin Pearson is reappointed, in a unanimous vote of seven Democrats, which is enough for a quorum on the 13-seat Shelby County Commission.
(Which I could cynically say is how the sausage gets made but I will instead say is a statement at a time that we need one.)
posted by box at 5:43 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
(Which I could cynically say is how the sausage gets made but I will instead say is a statement at a time that we need one.)
posted by box at 5:43 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
I love the sign that says, Ban Guns Not Justins.[Guardian link]
posted by Glinn at 7:48 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 7:48 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
It appears Sexton does not live in the district he represents.
posted by joannemerriam at 5:02 AM on April 13, 2023
posted by joannemerriam at 5:02 AM on April 13, 2023
It appears Sexton does not live in the district he represents.
I'm 95% certain that Sexton won't suffer any sanction for this, but at least he's being annoyed by it, and sometimes that's as good as you can get in the immediate present.
posted by Etrigan at 6:16 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm 95% certain that Sexton won't suffer any sanction for this, but at least he's being annoyed by it, and sometimes that's as good as you can get in the immediate present.
posted by Etrigan at 6:16 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I love the sign that says, Ban Guns Not Justins.
My favorite was NO JUSTINS, NO PEACE. If I lived there I'd buy that on a T-shirt.
posted by bink at 10:32 AM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
My favorite was NO JUSTINS, NO PEACE. If I lived there I'd buy that on a T-shirt.
posted by bink at 10:32 AM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Mod note: One comment deleted. Let's avoid calling people "toxic substances" as this goes against our Content Policy.
posted by loup (staff) at 9:56 AM on April 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by loup (staff) at 9:56 AM on April 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:02 PM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]