A "final" Beatles record is coming later this year, thanks to AI
June 13, 2023 10:26 AM Subscribe
From Ars Technica via the BBC, a new Beatles record will be released later this year—widely speculated to be the John Lennon-penned song "Now and Then".
"Now and Then" was recorded as a demo by Lennon on a cassette tape labeled "For Paul", which Yoko Ono gave to Paul McCartney back in 1995.
During the surviving Beatles' reunion in 1995 for the Anthology sessions, they attempted to record a version of "Now and Then", but the sound quality of the vocals on the tape wasn't good enough, and the effort was scrapped.
Fast-forward 18 years, and enter AI: for Peter Jackson's "Get Back" documentary, AI was used to separate vocal and instrument parts into separate tracks.
Jackson used the same technique to allow Sir Paul to virtually duet with John Lennon during his 2022 tour.
Now, AI is being used to extract and clean up the quality of Lennon's vocals on "Now and Then", which Paul and Ringo presumably finished and will release later this year.
So many questions remain unanswered:
Full interview with Paul
"Now and Then" was recorded as a demo by Lennon on a cassette tape labeled "For Paul", which Yoko Ono gave to Paul McCartney back in 1995.
During the surviving Beatles' reunion in 1995 for the Anthology sessions, they attempted to record a version of "Now and Then", but the sound quality of the vocals on the tape wasn't good enough, and the effort was scrapped.
Fast-forward 18 years, and enter AI: for Peter Jackson's "Get Back" documentary, AI was used to separate vocal and instrument parts into separate tracks.
Jackson used the same technique to allow Sir Paul to virtually duet with John Lennon during his 2022 tour.
Now, AI is being used to extract and clean up the quality of Lennon's vocals on "Now and Then", which Paul and Ringo presumably finished and will release later this year.
So many questions remain unanswered:
- Is it, in fact, "Now and Then"?
- Paul said "record"—does that mean there will be a B-side?
- What would George think, as he reportedly nixed "Now and Then" during the Anthology sessions?
- Does this really count as a Beatles record?
Full interview with Paul
“AI” feels like a deliberate play for clicks, given the current panic about LLMs et al. and their being used to make synthetic reproductions of singers parrot lyrics generated by random pattern matching.
“Machine Learning used to extract old vocals” has waaaay less ick but also less connection to the current bubble.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:42 AM on June 13, 2023 [43 favorites]
“Machine Learning used to extract old vocals” has waaaay less ick but also less connection to the current bubble.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:42 AM on June 13, 2023 [43 favorites]
Of course it is not a Beatles record, at best it will be a collage of performances by four group members, two of whom are no longer able to pass judgement on the end result.
posted by epo at 10:47 AM on June 13, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by epo at 10:47 AM on June 13, 2023 [12 favorites]
Meh, 'machine learning' as a class of tools easily falls under the umbrella of what professional researchers consider AI, since the coining of the term in 1959. Wikipedia puts it thus: "As a scientific endeavor, machine learning grew out of the quest for artificial intelligence (AI). In the early days of AI as an academic discipline, some researchers were interested in having machines learn from data. "
Also: this kind of machine learning applied to noisy, gap-filled audio and deployable by audio engineers is indeed fairly new, although not quite as recent as the ongoing LLM debacle.
TLDR: it is fair and not at all a clickbait stretch to say this was produced in part by AI.
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:53 AM on June 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
Also: this kind of machine learning applied to noisy, gap-filled audio and deployable by audio engineers is indeed fairly new, although not quite as recent as the ongoing LLM debacle.
TLDR: it is fair and not at all a clickbait stretch to say this was produced in part by AI.
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:53 AM on June 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
[please don't let Jeff Lynne be involved… please don't let Jeff Lynne be involved… please don't let Jeff Lynne be involved…]
posted by brachiopod at 10:55 AM on June 13, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by brachiopod at 10:55 AM on June 13, 2023 [20 favorites]
I'm more in agreement with Going to Maine - when I saw the headline (at the Guardian), I thought they meant generative "AI", which is what many of us think of these days when we hear "AI." Using advanced tools to extract audio does indeed feel very different to me than feeding a bunch of John Lennon into a learning system and having it generate something different.
As a mild Beatles fan who enjoyed Get Back, I'm always happy for things to be dug out and shared, and I'm mildly glad this will be happening. I'm also generally in favor of people who used to be part of a thing continuing to create around that part of their lives, so I'm mildly glad Paul is still doing stuff, Beatles-related and otherwise.
Thanks for posting this, vitout!
posted by kristi at 10:57 AM on June 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
As a mild Beatles fan who enjoyed Get Back, I'm always happy for things to be dug out and shared, and I'm mildly glad this will be happening. I'm also generally in favor of people who used to be part of a thing continuing to create around that part of their lives, so I'm mildly glad Paul is still doing stuff, Beatles-related and otherwise.
Thanks for posting this, vitout!
posted by kristi at 10:57 AM on June 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
All my life I've never been able to decide for good whether Paul is the best Beatle or the worst Beatle but then he goes and pulls some shit like this.
posted by kensington314 at 10:58 AM on June 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 10:58 AM on June 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Jeff Lynne is heavily involved.
posted by hippybear at 11:04 AM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 11:04 AM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Jeff Lynne is heavily involved.
Seriously? Gah!
I mean...There’s this kid named Giles Martin who I hear has a pretty good ear for music production.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:07 AM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Seriously? Gah!
I mean...There’s this kid named Giles Martin who I hear has a pretty good ear for music production.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:07 AM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
maybe the could release it under like "The Shitty Beatles" or something
posted by lefty lucky cat at 11:08 AM on June 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by lefty lucky cat at 11:08 AM on June 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
Dear Sir Paul, would you please stop messing around and kindly release Carnival of Light, like you said you were gonna do almost 20 years ago? That's the lost track I really wanna hear.
posted by /\/\/\/ at 11:09 AM on June 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by /\/\/\/ at 11:09 AM on June 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
No.
posted by Faintdreams at 11:14 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Faintdreams at 11:14 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is Paul out of money? And if so, how is Paul out of money?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:18 AM on June 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:18 AM on June 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
Thanks to some recent comments, I spent some time in the old “Paul is Dead” rabbit hole last week.
Paul isn’t dead.
A-and this will only be worth it if it includes some “death clues” and backward masking.
posted by chavenet at 11:34 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Paul isn’t dead.
A-and this will only be worth it if it includes some “death clues” and backward masking.
posted by chavenet at 11:34 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
(Does The Bitles make sense ?)
posted by nicolin at 11:36 AM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by nicolin at 11:36 AM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Didn't Now and Then come out ten years ago? I mean, that is the official Beatles youtube channel...?
I hope this is all new stuff on Paul's cassette. Til then, I guess I'll stick with the Albums That Never Were.
posted by Catblack at 11:37 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I hope this is all new stuff on Paul's cassette. Til then, I guess I'll stick with the Albums That Never Were.
posted by Catblack at 11:37 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
The BAItles, surely.
posted by outfielder at 11:38 AM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by outfielder at 11:38 AM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Not only that, I hear Atari/Apple Corps are releasing a new Beatles Temporary Secretary game!
posted by credulous at 11:41 AM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by credulous at 11:41 AM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Not the last one. We can get an endless supply of them now. I'm looking forward to Beethoven's 11th.
posted by night_train at 11:46 AM on June 13, 2023
posted by night_train at 11:46 AM on June 13, 2023
We can get an endless supply of them now.
We don't have an endless supply of song demos recorded with sub-standard results that can later be cleaned up with clever machine learning tools to isolate John Lennon's vocal and then use it for a modern remake.
Unless you know something the rest of us don't know.
posted by hippybear at 11:51 AM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
We don't have an endless supply of song demos recorded with sub-standard results that can later be cleaned up with clever machine learning tools to isolate John Lennon's vocal and then use it for a modern remake.
Unless you know something the rest of us don't know.
posted by hippybear at 11:51 AM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
"Does this really count as a Beatles record?"
Great new questions in the ontology of art. And they said I'd never use my Masters in Philosophy!
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:53 AM on June 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
Great new questions in the ontology of art. And they said I'd never use my Masters in Philosophy!
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:53 AM on June 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
I'm not finding a whole lot about who actually played on this, but apparently [Beatles Bible] the instrumental tracks were recorded by the three surviving Beatles back in 1995, but George didn't like the song and John's vocals were shit. So I guess maybe Paul and Jeff Lynne went back in with the new cleaned up vocals and finished the song. With George being dead, he couldn't vote on the song now. There is no note on what Ringo thinks about this so far.
posted by hippybear at 11:59 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 11:59 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
So, is generative AI going to produce a guitar solo from George? Because if we're going to Frankenstein this thing, let's do it up right!
posted by the sobsister at 11:59 AM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by the sobsister at 11:59 AM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also, I guess if you're enough of a Beatles/Lennon obscurest, this song was bootlegged with the title I Don't Want To Lose You.
posted by hippybear at 12:00 PM on June 13, 2023
posted by hippybear at 12:00 PM on June 13, 2023
Also, it's kind of telling that the song is basically Paul singing with John only taking the bridge. So maybe that was the only good part of the vocal even after it was cleaned up. Or maybe the rest of the song was mumble/filler lyrics so Paul had to write the verses. I haven't heard the original bootleg so I don't know what was actually there.
I find this project and all of its implications kind of fascinating.
posted by hippybear at 12:02 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I find this project and all of its implications kind of fascinating.
posted by hippybear at 12:02 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, this is insane. I listened to this song a couple of days ago posted from the McCartney official account. I cannot find any trace of that now.
I hate living in digital times when things just GO AWAY.
posted by hippybear at 12:08 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I hate living in digital times when things just GO AWAY.
posted by hippybear at 12:08 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Jeff Lynne is heavily involved.
…so in fact, a new ELO song.
posted by brachiopod at 12:27 PM on June 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
…so in fact, a new ELO song.
posted by brachiopod at 12:27 PM on June 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
From the headline I initially thought he was going to give his blessing to de-aging their vocals, like this one from a few months ago. Anyway, I'm ok with whatever. I mean, either it's good, in which case I'll be happy to have another Beatlesque song out there. Or it's bad, in which case I'll just ignore it like I do with "Real Love" (the mythical non-Mary J. Blige version.) Nothing remains sacrosanct forever.
posted by xigxag at 12:27 PM on June 13, 2023
posted by xigxag at 12:27 PM on June 13, 2023
Nothing remains sacrosanct forever.
It's just shameful what they're doing with Well-Tempered Klavier these days.
posted by hippybear at 12:29 PM on June 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's just shameful what they're doing with Well-Tempered Klavier these days.
posted by hippybear at 12:29 PM on June 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
hippybear: There is no note on what Ringo thinks about this so far.
"Peace and Love," suggests ChatGPT.
posted by k3ninho at 12:30 PM on June 13, 2023 [14 favorites]
"Peace and Love," suggests ChatGPT.
posted by k3ninho at 12:30 PM on June 13, 2023 [14 favorites]
-- Jeff Lynne is heavily involved.
-- Seriously? Gah!
I can give Otis Wilbury a pass.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:30 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
-- Seriously? Gah!
I can give Otis Wilbury a pass.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:30 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'll tell you what Ringo's thinking, and that's whatever Barbara Bach wants him to think. And he should be damn happy with that.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:47 PM on June 13, 2023
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:47 PM on June 13, 2023
>I'll tell you what Ringo's thinking, and that's whatever Barbara Bach wants him to think. And he should be damn happy with that.
Atouk alunda Lana!
posted by Catblack at 12:51 PM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Atouk alunda Lana!
posted by Catblack at 12:51 PM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
So, how do I block all AI tagged threads, like politics threads? Sometimes I do want a good laugh, but most of the time I like my attention on more human topics. Like, uh, politics....
posted by flamewise at 1:02 PM on June 13, 2023
posted by flamewise at 1:02 PM on June 13, 2023
This thread isn't really about AI. It's about a musician issuing a song under the name of his generations-long-defunct band. It's a very human topic, and the AI usage, and AI in general, isn't being debated in this discussion thread.
posted by hippybear at 1:04 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 1:04 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Don't you know it's gonna be
(all right)
posted by clavdivs at 1:18 PM on June 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
(all right)
posted by clavdivs at 1:18 PM on June 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
the scary thing is though this isn't a new AI/Beatles song after all--the next one WILL BE.
posted by graywyvern at 1:30 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by graywyvern at 1:30 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Great new questions in the ontology of art.
This is straight up Walter Benjamin's alley. What I'm seeing is an argument about authenticity, a delineation which especially in this age of ML/AI gets blurred pretty much to oblivion. The pat conclusion is I suppose whether it's simply a good song, and then a good song well produced, but The Beatles ceased to do anything in 1970, so none of this is The Beatles (of course). I'm not trying to scold or anything, because to change the discussion in this way is like exercising a neglected muscle. It just feels like there's nothing there!
posted by rhizome at 1:35 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is straight up Walter Benjamin's alley. What I'm seeing is an argument about authenticity, a delineation which especially in this age of ML/AI gets blurred pretty much to oblivion. The pat conclusion is I suppose whether it's simply a good song, and then a good song well produced, but The Beatles ceased to do anything in 1970, so none of this is The Beatles (of course). I'm not trying to scold or anything, because to change the discussion in this way is like exercising a neglected muscle. It just feels like there's nothing there!
posted by rhizome at 1:35 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
"This thread isn't really about AI. It's about a musician issuing a song under the name of his generations-long-defunct band."
I think it can be both, perhaps? This question is going to come up a lot in the future because of AI/ML tools, and this is just one of the first and highest profile instances.
When Paul, George, Ringo, and John's estate decided to release two songs as "The Beatles" using more modern techniques in the 90s, I was eager to hear them and enjoyed them. Are they actually "Beatles" songs, though?
Listening to "Real Love" right now. I enjoy the song quite a lot. I'm glad we have it. It does not feel like a cohesive Beatles song, though. It feels more like a solo Lennon track with some frills added by Jeff Lynne and George Harrison via the Cloud Nine sessions.
It's one of those Ship of Theseus questions, isn't it? When does a band stop being a band after so many original members have left or died?
There's so so so many things that have been released posthumously from various artists that were in varying states of completion before they died and then cleaned up by new technology. There's been little argument that it is still that band/artist.
posted by jzb at 1:50 PM on June 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
I think it can be both, perhaps? This question is going to come up a lot in the future because of AI/ML tools, and this is just one of the first and highest profile instances.
When Paul, George, Ringo, and John's estate decided to release two songs as "The Beatles" using more modern techniques in the 90s, I was eager to hear them and enjoyed them. Are they actually "Beatles" songs, though?
Listening to "Real Love" right now. I enjoy the song quite a lot. I'm glad we have it. It does not feel like a cohesive Beatles song, though. It feels more like a solo Lennon track with some frills added by Jeff Lynne and George Harrison via the Cloud Nine sessions.
It's one of those Ship of Theseus questions, isn't it? When does a band stop being a band after so many original members have left or died?
There's so so so many things that have been released posthumously from various artists that were in varying states of completion before they died and then cleaned up by new technology. There's been little argument that it is still that band/artist.
posted by jzb at 1:50 PM on June 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
When does a band stop being a band after so many original members have left or died?
Yes comes immediately to mind. As well as a lot of really legacy acts like The Four Tops.
We've seen bands continuing long beyond their "official existence", being the original members, for a long while now.
It's an interesting thing, isn't it? I'm not talking The Beatles here, but instead these other acts. Should they be allowed to retain their original names? Is The Berlin Philharmonic no longer the same "band" at this point because they have no more original members? Is it a case where it's because the original creators of the music aren't doing it anymore and so symphonies are exempt because their pieces weren't created by members of the group?
What do we do with Philip Glass or Steve Reich, where the composers were intimately involved with the original recordings and even with the groups that were created around them for doing original recordings, but then the composer is gone?
I think there's really a whole lot of things going on with the analysis of this new Beatles song, and I'm sort of rolling around in a ball pit of thoughts and don't know if anyone else is there with me.
posted by hippybear at 1:57 PM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yes comes immediately to mind. As well as a lot of really legacy acts like The Four Tops.
We've seen bands continuing long beyond their "official existence", being the original members, for a long while now.
It's an interesting thing, isn't it? I'm not talking The Beatles here, but instead these other acts. Should they be allowed to retain their original names? Is The Berlin Philharmonic no longer the same "band" at this point because they have no more original members? Is it a case where it's because the original creators of the music aren't doing it anymore and so symphonies are exempt because their pieces weren't created by members of the group?
What do we do with Philip Glass or Steve Reich, where the composers were intimately involved with the original recordings and even with the groups that were created around them for doing original recordings, but then the composer is gone?
I think there's really a whole lot of things going on with the analysis of this new Beatles song, and I'm sort of rolling around in a ball pit of thoughts and don't know if anyone else is there with me.
posted by hippybear at 1:57 PM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Ironically the Beatles (well, maybe mostly John) thought they were at their most authentic when they were playing those Liverpool and Hamburg clubs, if I remember the Get Back documentary. The question for time travelers seeking authenticity might be, see them on or off phenmetrazine? And I mean, for both you and/or the band...
I can enjoy these forensic reconstructions for what they are. Even the White Album was a bit of a sham, engineered to make you think the band is playing together and marketed to make you think they loved every track. But hey, it's fun looking through that glass onion.
posted by credulous at 2:09 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I can enjoy these forensic reconstructions for what they are. Even the White Album was a bit of a sham, engineered to make you think the band is playing together and marketed to make you think they loved every track. But hey, it's fun looking through that glass onion.
posted by credulous at 2:09 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Even the White Album was a bit of a sham, engineered to make you think the band is playing together
Wait until you hear about how most music is recorded across the past 50+ years.
posted by hippybear at 2:12 PM on June 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
Wait until you hear about how most music is recorded across the past 50+ years.
posted by hippybear at 2:12 PM on June 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
This is ghoulish and gross. I thought the same thing about "Free as a Bird" and "Real Love." Jesus, the article even says, "the three living Beatles considered including the song in their Anthology series...but abandoned it due to quality issues and George Harrison's refusal to work on it." They're all John Lennon's songs from the 1970s, and there's no way to know if he would've wanted this.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:16 PM on June 13, 2023
posted by kirkaracha at 2:16 PM on June 13, 2023
I had my tongue embedded a bit in my cheek there :)
Hard to see in text communication.
posted by hippybear at 2:19 PM on June 13, 2023
Hard to see in text communication.
posted by hippybear at 2:19 PM on June 13, 2023
Thanks to some recent comments, I spent some time in the old “Paul is Dead” rabbit hole last week.
You can use the same methodology to show that Ringo was murdered and replaced by his Aunt Jessie. It's all there in the Magical Mystery Tour booklet.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:19 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
You can use the same methodology to show that Ringo was murdered and replaced by his Aunt Jessie. It's all there in the Magical Mystery Tour booklet.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:19 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Aunt Jessie was left no other instructions from Ringo other than "Peace And Love", so that's what this New Ringo just says all the time.
Peace and love. Peace and love.
Practicing for July 7.
posted by hippybear at 2:21 PM on June 13, 2023
Peace and love. Peace and love.
Practicing for July 7.
posted by hippybear at 2:21 PM on June 13, 2023
There is no note on what Ringo thinks about this so far.
Ringo tends to stay silent about most of the post-Beatles Beatles nonsense. He’s turned out to be the Sensible Beatle.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:21 PM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Ringo tends to stay silent about most of the post-Beatles Beatles nonsense. He’s turned out to be the Sensible Beatle.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:21 PM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
He has an All-Starr band on tour this summer, so he has no worries.
posted by hippybear at 2:22 PM on June 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 2:22 PM on June 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Nothing created after 1994 actually exists.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:29 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:29 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's one of those Ship of Theseus questions, isn't it? When does a band stop being a band after so many original members have left or died?
"This is a very old axe, used to belong to George Washington. I had to replace the handle. And the head."
posted by kirkaracha at 2:30 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
"This is a very old axe, used to belong to George Washington. I had to replace the handle. And the head."
posted by kirkaracha at 2:30 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Nothing created after 1994 actually exists.
Oh thank god. No more MCU.
posted by hippybear at 2:30 PM on June 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Oh thank god. No more MCU.
posted by hippybear at 2:30 PM on June 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Jeff Lynne is heavily involved.
…so in fact, a new ELO song.
Obligatory When the Beatles Hit America lyrics:
And finally the record hits the shelvesposted by eckeric at 2:31 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
And it's called "The Beatle—From Ourselves"
And for anyone who didn't realize or know
It sounded a lot like ELO
Or ELP, or FYC, or XTC, or REM, or BTO, or PIL, or YMO
But it didn't sound much like PSI
Didn't sound much like "P. S. I Love You"
When does a band stop being a band after so many original members have left or died?
In practice, we're talking about brand names rather than bands here. Whoever legally owns the brand gets to release their products under that name. When that brand gets degraded by the declining quality of its output - releasing shitty records, say- potential buyers can see it no longer has any value and should sensibly refuse to buy its products.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:38 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
In practice, we're talking about brand names rather than bands here. Whoever legally owns the brand gets to release their products under that name. When that brand gets degraded by the declining quality of its output - releasing shitty records, say- potential buyers can see it no longer has any value and should sensibly refuse to buy its products.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:38 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Didn't sound much like "P. S. I Love You"
Neither did anything they, the actual band, recorded post Revolver.
posted by hippybear at 2:39 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Neither did anything they, the actual band, recorded post Revolver.
posted by hippybear at 2:39 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
He has an All-Starr band on tour this summer, so he has no worries.
This tour's round of All-Starrs includes such legends as the guitarist from the Average White Band, the singer from Men at Work, and not one but two former members of Toto.
Ringo's definition of 'all-star' is more inclusive than Smash Mouth's.
posted by box at 2:41 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
This tour's round of All-Starrs includes such legends as the guitarist from the Average White Band, the singer from Men at Work, and not one but two former members of Toto.
Ringo's definition of 'all-star' is more inclusive than Smash Mouth's.
posted by box at 2:41 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Every member of Toto was a giant in the industry as a part of session bands before they decided to put a name on their music and create it for themselves instead of a different artist.
posted by hippybear at 2:43 PM on June 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 2:43 PM on June 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
Also, "the singer from Men At Work"... Colin James Hay is a giant in music. He has a name.
posted by hippybear at 2:44 PM on June 13, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 2:44 PM on June 13, 2023 [12 favorites]
Ringo was born in 1940, and Paul in 1942, so I am kinda glad that they are able to keep in motion/stay sharp. I think my folks would enjoy seeing Ringo if it wasn't for covid, etc.
posted by eckeric at 2:52 PM on June 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by eckeric at 2:52 PM on June 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Colin James Hay -- Hold Me
A song I've held in my heart and soul for decades.
posted by hippybear at 2:56 PM on June 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
A song I've held in my heart and soul for decades.
posted by hippybear at 2:56 PM on June 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Real Love is not, in my opinion, a lesser Beatles song.
Plenty of the stuff they did was done with only some members writing, or with only some members playing and singing, or with only some members in the same room at the same time.
An amazing thing about the Beatles: they aren't overrated. They were giants, and they're upstream of a lot of what's been good to listen to since then. If we're gonna get another song from them, with whatever caveats, I'll take it.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:58 PM on June 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Plenty of the stuff they did was done with only some members writing, or with only some members playing and singing, or with only some members in the same room at the same time.
An amazing thing about the Beatles: they aren't overrated. They were giants, and they're upstream of a lot of what's been good to listen to since then. If we're gonna get another song from them, with whatever caveats, I'll take it.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:58 PM on June 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Whose cornflakes did Jeff Lynne shit in? ELO was fucking amazing.
posted by phooky at 3:20 PM on June 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by phooky at 3:20 PM on June 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
I have no idea about the Jeff Lynne hate in this thread. Maybe others have more information.
posted by hippybear at 3:26 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 3:26 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sure Jeff Lynne is a great artist in his own right but he's like coffee. Everything with coffee in it becomes coffee flavored. I like coffee but I don't like my fruit salad coffee flavored.
posted by xigxag at 3:35 PM on June 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by xigxag at 3:35 PM on June 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
If they want to call it a Beatles song, that’s up to them, I guess. Since they broke up and never got back together and all of the parts were recorded after they broke up, it is hard to see it as an actual Beatles song like the ones they made when they were a band.
posted by snofoam at 3:44 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by snofoam at 3:44 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Posthumous Releases, Forever
posted by allium cepa at 3:57 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by allium cepa at 3:57 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oh, I like ELO a lot. I think the point that the John Wesley Harding song was making was that if the Beatles kept making songs into the 80s, they wouldn't sound like they were frozen in time, they would sound like the other groups that were making music in those years. I just think that it is funny that the song I first heard in 1990 name checks Jeff Lynne and ELO and here we are in 2023.
posted by eckeric at 3:59 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by eckeric at 3:59 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
"I think my folks would enjoy seeing Ringo if it wasn't for covid, etc."
Ringo gives a great show. He wasn't *as* into it post-Covid, I don't think (understandably), but he's out there because he wants to be. And sure, the All-Starrs may not be as big names as they were before (people keep dying, after all), but those guys all have hits and they all get their turn in the spotlight and it's all great fun.
I defy anyone to find more fun in this life than in singing "Yellow Submarine" along with Ringo. Pure joy.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:01 PM on June 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
Ringo gives a great show. He wasn't *as* into it post-Covid, I don't think (understandably), but he's out there because he wants to be. And sure, the All-Starrs may not be as big names as they were before (people keep dying, after all), but those guys all have hits and they all get their turn in the spotlight and it's all great fun.
I defy anyone to find more fun in this life than in singing "Yellow Submarine" along with Ringo. Pure joy.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:01 PM on June 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
We need a John Lennon analog of this, so some AI that writes song and sings should be trained on John Lennon.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:08 PM on June 13, 2023
posted by jeffburdges at 4:08 PM on June 13, 2023
Oh are we talking ship of Theseus bands ?
because if so I just want to say: Sugababes.
If ya know, ya know - and if ya don't then the Wikipedia page lays it alllll out.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:32 PM on June 13, 2023
because if so I just want to say: Sugababes.
If ya know, ya know - and if ya don't then the Wikipedia page lays it alllll out.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:32 PM on June 13, 2023
Bands with the most past members. Coming soon: bands with the most zombies (and/or Zombies).
posted by swift at 5:20 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by swift at 5:20 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Amazing list, but I think at least some of those bands aren't true ship-of-Theseus bands, in that there's often a founding member who lingers on and retains ownership of the name. For a true rotating lineup, consider the 1980's Puerto-Rican ur-boy-band Menudo, whose name and image was owned by their producers and the boys themselves were considered completely fungible. More recently in Japan there's a whole industry of evergreen "idol" groups where the members expect to graduate after a few years often with hopes of launching a solo career as a singer, model, actor, or "talent," and are replaced by younger trainees.
posted by xigxag at 5:38 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by xigxag at 5:38 PM on June 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Colin James Hay is a giant in music. He has a name
Does he carry it with him like his daddy did?
Is he livin’ the dream that he kept hid?
posted by Naberius at 5:54 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Does he carry it with him like his daddy did?
Is he livin’ the dream that he kept hid?
posted by Naberius at 5:54 PM on June 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've seen ads in the photography space for various Lightroom add-ons that use AI to improve photos by doing things like reducing noise fairly automatically. This process seems analogous to that: it isolates and cleans up the source information that you know is there but is too difficult to do with conventional tools.
I'm sure talented producers could do the same thing with the source track and there would be the same question of how much of the resulting recording is the original and stuff added/massaged. The involvement of AI just means it isn't a person doing that part of the work, although I'm sure many humans were involved with evaluating and tweaking the output.
It isn't as headline grabbing a use of AI as asking an AI to make a Blue Jays promo video or write college essays but is pretty big because it can save certain people like photographers or producers a lot of time, but for bigger projects probably means that someone's job has just been automated.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:57 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm sure talented producers could do the same thing with the source track and there would be the same question of how much of the resulting recording is the original and stuff added/massaged. The involvement of AI just means it isn't a person doing that part of the work, although I'm sure many humans were involved with evaluating and tweaking the output.
It isn't as headline grabbing a use of AI as asking an AI to make a Blue Jays promo video or write college essays but is pretty big because it can save certain people like photographers or producers a lot of time, but for bigger projects probably means that someone's job has just been automated.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:57 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Jeff Lynne production sounds like Jeff Lynne. You either like it or you don't I guess. I love it, but I am an ELO fanboy. The first record I bought with my allowance money was Discovery in 1979. I still have it, still love it.
I think these "new" Beatles tracks are great. The Beatles might be my favorite band of all time. Anything new, even if a bit kludgy, is great to me. I don't care if it's "authentic". It's creative and interesting. Think of it like sampling - it's not just for hip hop.
posted by Billy Rubin at 7:26 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think these "new" Beatles tracks are great. The Beatles might be my favorite band of all time. Anything new, even if a bit kludgy, is great to me. I don't care if it's "authentic". It's creative and interesting. Think of it like sampling - it's not just for hip hop.
posted by Billy Rubin at 7:26 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Colin James Hay is a giant in music. He has a name.
"Beautiful World" is one of my all-time favorite songs.
"Overkill" with Choir! Choir! Choir! (and on Scrubs)
And, keeping it antipodean, "Not The Girl You Think You Are" by Crowded House is a better Beatles song than the zombie crap. It could be on the White Album.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:40 PM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
"Beautiful World" is one of my all-time favorite songs.
"Overkill" with Choir! Choir! Choir! (and on Scrubs)
And, keeping it antipodean, "Not The Girl You Think You Are" by Crowded House is a better Beatles song than the zombie crap. It could be on the White Album.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:40 PM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
I love ELO, mostly because I love late-period Beatles and it's fun to guess which specific Beatles songs inspired which parts of the awesome "Mr. Blue Sky."
If you like ELO, you might like LEO (deets).
posted by kirkaracha at 7:44 PM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
If you like ELO, you might like LEO (deets).
posted by kirkaracha at 7:44 PM on June 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Full Moon Fever is a great album thanks in part to Jeff.
posted by credulous at 8:19 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by credulous at 8:19 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
My first thought on seeing this was 'no way, no how, that is NOT a Beatles song, can't be and never will'. But reading the comments here, particularly about the history of so many bands where many of the songs we know and love were not created by the individuals we know and love to see/hear performing them, because they were members of the band only before or after we fell in love with those songs. Not to mention so many albums that were made at times when an entire band was not speaking and were only ever in the studio one at a time because it was the only way they could stand to record the album without killing someone.
So I guess I'm firmly in the camp of 'maybe, I don't really know'.
posted by dg at 11:09 PM on June 13, 2023
So I guess I'm firmly in the camp of 'maybe, I don't really know'.
posted by dg at 11:09 PM on June 13, 2023
"It's an interesting thing, isn't it? I'm not talking The Beatles here, but instead these other acts. Should they be allowed to retain their original names? Is The Berlin Philharmonic no longer the same "band" at this point because they have no more original members? Is it a case where it's because the original creators of the music aren't doing it anymore and so symphonies are exempt because their pieces weren't created by members of the group?"
It is! I spend more time than is normal thinking about this.
Consider Pink Floyd. First bandleader has mental health issues and leaves / is deposed, but they keep the name and change up their style over time. Then they have a string of really great, really popular albums. Another member leaves, they keep the name (after some legal squabbles...) and release some more albums and keep touring. All under the same name.
And because they tour so infrequently several groups become well-known in their own rights filling the gap playing Pink Floyd songs live.
As an aside I've wondered if/when we'll see the symphony model pick up for pop/rock music. I know there are cover bands, but I mean a really well-regarded group that tours and curates setlists by a bunch of bands. Then again, maybe that's what Ringo's All-Starr band is. (Had the privilege to see them in the 90s. So glad I did that.)
Genesis and Fleetwood Mac also come to mind. Genesis changed dramatically when Peter Gabriel left, and they had their greatest commercial success then. I was pretty young when Genesis came out and I started engaging with them. I remember finally going backwards in their catalog to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway and having a hard time feeling it was the same band.
I kind of feel like any Fleetwood Mac album before (and after) Nicks/Buckingham were part of the band should come with a disclaimer / warning label. Whether you like Peter Green Fleetwood Mac or Bob Welch Fleetwood Mac, that is not the same beast.
A more recent example might be Barenaked Ladies. They are great live, but albums since Steven Page left seem to be missing something IMO. Sometimes just one person leaving (or added) changes the chemistry entirely. Maybe Fleetwood Mac should've had to add disclaimers when Buckingham/Nicks joined for folks who knew the band before that.
In the Berlin Philharmonic example... I'm not that knowledgeable about classical. I think it's accepted/understood that orchestras are literally institutions, like theater companies or schools. Not sure if a band can make that transition.
Anyway, yeah. I'm in this ball pit quite a lot. This is the kind of thing I wish people talked about at parties...
posted by jzb at 3:04 AM on June 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
It is! I spend more time than is normal thinking about this.
Consider Pink Floyd. First bandleader has mental health issues and leaves / is deposed, but they keep the name and change up their style over time. Then they have a string of really great, really popular albums. Another member leaves, they keep the name (after some legal squabbles...) and release some more albums and keep touring. All under the same name.
And because they tour so infrequently several groups become well-known in their own rights filling the gap playing Pink Floyd songs live.
As an aside I've wondered if/when we'll see the symphony model pick up for pop/rock music. I know there are cover bands, but I mean a really well-regarded group that tours and curates setlists by a bunch of bands. Then again, maybe that's what Ringo's All-Starr band is. (Had the privilege to see them in the 90s. So glad I did that.)
Genesis and Fleetwood Mac also come to mind. Genesis changed dramatically when Peter Gabriel left, and they had their greatest commercial success then. I was pretty young when Genesis came out and I started engaging with them. I remember finally going backwards in their catalog to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway and having a hard time feeling it was the same band.
I kind of feel like any Fleetwood Mac album before (and after) Nicks/Buckingham were part of the band should come with a disclaimer / warning label. Whether you like Peter Green Fleetwood Mac or Bob Welch Fleetwood Mac, that is not the same beast.
A more recent example might be Barenaked Ladies. They are great live, but albums since Steven Page left seem to be missing something IMO. Sometimes just one person leaving (or added) changes the chemistry entirely. Maybe Fleetwood Mac should've had to add disclaimers when Buckingham/Nicks joined for folks who knew the band before that.
In the Berlin Philharmonic example... I'm not that knowledgeable about classical. I think it's accepted/understood that orchestras are literally institutions, like theater companies or schools. Not sure if a band can make that transition.
Anyway, yeah. I'm in this ball pit quite a lot. This is the kind of thing I wish people talked about at parties...
posted by jzb at 3:04 AM on June 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
"Colin James Hay is a giant in music. He has a name."
Oh, Hells yes. Colin Hay is so much more than the lead singer from Men at Work. (Also their chief songwriter, for one thing. If you heard a song on the radio / MTV by Men at Work, it was written by Hay or co-written by him.)
In addition to being an extremely gifted songwriter and performer, he's hilarious. If you have the chance to see him do a solo acoustic set, go. He's great with his band, but for solo sets he tells a lot of stories between songs and they're worth the price of admission on their own.
When I saw him about 10-12 years ago on a solo tour in St. Louis he was brilliant, and had a story about Paul McCartney coming to dinner that was perfect.
posted by jzb at 3:17 AM on June 14, 2023
Oh, Hells yes. Colin Hay is so much more than the lead singer from Men at Work. (Also their chief songwriter, for one thing. If you heard a song on the radio / MTV by Men at Work, it was written by Hay or co-written by him.)
In addition to being an extremely gifted songwriter and performer, he's hilarious. If you have the chance to see him do a solo acoustic set, go. He's great with his band, but for solo sets he tells a lot of stories between songs and they're worth the price of admission on their own.
When I saw him about 10-12 years ago on a solo tour in St. Louis he was brilliant, and had a story about Paul McCartney coming to dinner that was perfect.
posted by jzb at 3:17 AM on June 14, 2023
In the Berlin Philharmonic example... I'm not that knowledgeable about classical. I think it's accepted/understood that orchestras are literally institutions, like theater companies or schools. Not sure if a band can make that transition.
Orchestras do get associated with particular conductors but those change periodically. Some orchestras are known for having distinctive sounds/styles which are independent of their conductor and concert hall. The most obvious example would be the Wiener Philharmoniker. But yes, I think it's reasonable to describe them as institutions in a way that bands aren't. More similar to a band is a string quartet, some of which have a life beyond their original members and some of which don't.
posted by plonkee at 5:38 AM on June 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Orchestras do get associated with particular conductors but those change periodically. Some orchestras are known for having distinctive sounds/styles which are independent of their conductor and concert hall. The most obvious example would be the Wiener Philharmoniker. But yes, I think it's reasonable to describe them as institutions in a way that bands aren't. More similar to a band is a string quartet, some of which have a life beyond their original members and some of which don't.
posted by plonkee at 5:38 AM on June 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
When three Beatles are still around to decide, okay, I guess that's fine. But two of them are gone and one was opposed to the song to begin with. And really, Ringo isn't the impetus behind this. He's happily touring the world spreading peace and love with his enormous band and living with his gorgeous wife. It's all Paul, with Yoko agreeing, I guess. I don't like it. The man has been dead for four decades. Let's not manipulate his voice so he can perform for us like a ghoulish trained seal.
posted by ceejaytee at 7:59 AM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ceejaytee at 7:59 AM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
The guy was a singer - he recorded this song, just in a crappy format. If using technology to release all the songs the guy put out, just like multiple other artists have done in the past, I'm cool with it. People like the music he sang and it's a way to keep him alive and fresh in memory. But then again I purchased Sentridoh records at full price, which are Lou Barlow's way of releasing literally every half-made song he ever created, so maybe I'm the wrong person to judge.
It's an interesting thing, isn't it? I'm not talking The Beatles here, but instead these other acts.
Judging by the number of '60s bands that are still playing at casinos or whatever based on road signs I see, I think several bands have already transitioned into this phase of 'institution'. Or maybe they are sort of like vampires where playing concerts keep them alive.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:16 AM on June 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's an interesting thing, isn't it? I'm not talking The Beatles here, but instead these other acts.
Judging by the number of '60s bands that are still playing at casinos or whatever based on road signs I see, I think several bands have already transitioned into this phase of 'institution'. Or maybe they are sort of like vampires where playing concerts keep them alive.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:16 AM on June 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don't have a strong opinion on the song, but I'm staking my flag firmly in the camp of not thinking Lennon or Harrison's potential objections not mattering at all. They're dead. They are no longer capable of caring, or suffering any harm.
posted by Dysk at 8:56 AM on June 14, 2023
posted by Dysk at 8:56 AM on June 14, 2023
It's all Paul, with Yoko agreeing, I guess. I don't like it. The man has been dead for four decades. Let's not manipulate his voice so he can perform for us like a ghoulish trained seal.
Counterpoint: John recorded the song and gave it to Paul and had he lived would have probably continued to make music, which (with what I know about John) would have included revisiting songs he wrote years or decades before and fixing them up for release.
Also, cleaning up the background noise and maybe regulating the time a little is not "manipulating his voice" -- actually its the exact opposite: its manipulating the recording so his voice -- his authentic voice -- can be heard.
Ultimately, if they're going to release it as "The Beatles" all four men/estates have to sign off. Paul can't just unilaterally say "this is a Beatles track" -- Olivia and Yoko and Ringo all have to agree. And, I have to assume, that Yoko knows better than anyone alive "what John would have wanted".
Let his music continue to be enjoyed by people. Let the vault tracks out and polish them as much as possible so they become what he heard in his mind and not what can be heard on a rapidly-dissolving cassette.
These things don't belong to us. They belong to The Beatles. Let them do as they wish.
posted by anastasiav at 8:57 AM on June 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Counterpoint: John recorded the song and gave it to Paul and had he lived would have probably continued to make music, which (with what I know about John) would have included revisiting songs he wrote years or decades before and fixing them up for release.
Also, cleaning up the background noise and maybe regulating the time a little is not "manipulating his voice" -- actually its the exact opposite: its manipulating the recording so his voice -- his authentic voice -- can be heard.
Ultimately, if they're going to release it as "The Beatles" all four men/estates have to sign off. Paul can't just unilaterally say "this is a Beatles track" -- Olivia and Yoko and Ringo all have to agree. And, I have to assume, that Yoko knows better than anyone alive "what John would have wanted".
Let his music continue to be enjoyed by people. Let the vault tracks out and polish them as much as possible so they become what he heard in his mind and not what can be heard on a rapidly-dissolving cassette.
These things don't belong to us. They belong to The Beatles. Let them do as they wish.
posted by anastasiav at 8:57 AM on June 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I kind of feel like any Fleetwood Mac album before (and after) Nicks/Buckingham were part of the band should come with a disclaimer / warning label. Whether you like Peter Green Fleetwood Mac or Bob Welch Fleetwood Mac, that is not the same beast.
I have been taken to task on the blue in the past for suggesting that Fleetwood Mac had more commercial success after Buckingham and Nicks joined than before.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:11 AM on June 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have been taken to task on the blue in the past for suggesting that Fleetwood Mac had more commercial success after Buckingham and Nicks joined than before.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:11 AM on June 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I love George. And he wielded a quietly powerful influence that doesn't always get credit.
But steamrolling George is also a very John/Paul thing -- maybe especially Paul. So that part actually feels very classic Beatles.
posted by Text TK at 9:17 AM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
But steamrolling George is also a very John/Paul thing -- maybe especially Paul. So that part actually feels very classic Beatles.
posted by Text TK at 9:17 AM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have been taken to task on the blue in the past for suggesting that Fleetwood Mac had more commercial success after Buckingham and Nicks joined than before.
Commercial success? That seems inarguable and demonstrably true.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:00 AM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Commercial success? That seems inarguable and demonstrably true.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:00 AM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
German electronic band Tangerine Dream are still going despite no original band members being left - their last album, Raum, is actually the best Tangerine Dream album in a long time.
I'm not actually sure what to make of that to be honest.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 11:02 AM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm not actually sure what to make of that to be honest.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 11:02 AM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
also in the 21c: somebody finished "kubla khan" for him.
posted by graywyvern at 2:50 PM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by graywyvern at 2:50 PM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Commercial success? That seems inarguable and demonstrably true.
One would think.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:53 PM on June 14, 2023
One would think.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:53 PM on June 14, 2023
I think this is great, and I look forward to hearing the new song. If it's as good as Real Love and Free as a Bird, I will be very happy. I don't understand any objections in this case. This is a good use of AI, and as others have said, aside from that particular technology the process is the same as has been used for decades. Hypothetical objections from deceased band members also don't make much sense to me. Bring on the material from the vault!
posted by blue shadows at 11:11 PM on June 14, 2023
posted by blue shadows at 11:11 PM on June 14, 2023
I don't understand any objections in this case.
for what it's worth, you may have no objections but surely you can understand why others may have objections?
in isolation this is, I don't know, good news for people who hunger to hear new Beatles content. I'm in the camp of people who don't mind a Beatles tune but overwhelmingly cannot stand an industry and society that leverages so much energy and attention to fixate on personalities and a period of entertainment that has passed. it really feels like we worship ghosts, some days. and scratch the ghost layer and it's money.
posted by elkevelvet at 7:09 AM on June 15, 2023
for what it's worth, you may have no objections but surely you can understand why others may have objections?
in isolation this is, I don't know, good news for people who hunger to hear new Beatles content. I'm in the camp of people who don't mind a Beatles tune but overwhelmingly cannot stand an industry and society that leverages so much energy and attention to fixate on personalities and a period of entertainment that has passed. it really feels like we worship ghosts, some days. and scratch the ghost layer and it's money.
posted by elkevelvet at 7:09 AM on June 15, 2023
Commercial success? That seems inarguable and demonstrably true.
As someone who has heard some Peter Green Fleetwood Mac, I don't get why anyone would argue artistic accomplishment either. With Peter Green, Fleetwood Mac was a workingman's boogie blues rock band along side the Outlaws, ZZ Top's '70s material, Allman Brothers, etc. Sure they had some fine songs, but the audience for that is pretty limited.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:49 AM on June 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
As someone who has heard some Peter Green Fleetwood Mac, I don't get why anyone would argue artistic accomplishment either. With Peter Green, Fleetwood Mac was a workingman's boogie blues rock band along side the Outlaws, ZZ Top's '70s material, Allman Brothers, etc. Sure they had some fine songs, but the audience for that is pretty limited.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:49 AM on June 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
With Peter Green, Fleetwood Mac was a workingman's boogie blues rock band.
You sure about that, champ?
Albatross
Man of the World
I Would Rather Go Blind
posted by Paul Slade at 7:45 AM on June 17, 2023
You sure about that, champ?
Albatross
Man of the World
I Would Rather Go Blind
posted by Paul Slade at 7:45 AM on June 17, 2023
Rock'n'roll's been going downhill ever since Buddy Holly died.
... and his label took his old demos and overdubbed backing tracks on them and kept releasing "new" Buddy Holly records until 1969.
... after which The Beatles broke up. Coincidence? You be the judge!
posted by Devoidoid at 9:05 AM on June 19, 2023
... and his label took his old demos and overdubbed backing tracks on them and kept releasing "new" Buddy Holly records until 1969.
... after which The Beatles broke up. Coincidence? You be the judge!
posted by Devoidoid at 9:05 AM on June 19, 2023
If you don't like this record being released as The Beatles, I know where you can get a copy of Squeeze by The Velvet Underground to listen to instead.
posted by Devoidoid at 9:08 AM on June 19, 2023
posted by Devoidoid at 9:08 AM on June 19, 2023
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