A Shrine To Inflexibility
June 18, 2023 9:56 AM Subscribe
Twitter is being evicted from its Boulder, Colorado office due to lack of rent payments over the past 12 months. This isn't a surprise, as we have seen Musk decline to pay for rent in San Francisco or even for Google Cloud services. But what is not mentioned is that this eviction is over a completely new and unused Boulder Colorado office. This is a comedy of errors - an office space that was planned before the pandemic and then, somehow, built anyway while everyone was working from home. Rod Hilton provides the background, with pictures, in a Mastodon thread.
Man, I could have a lot of fun for a year if I didn't have to pay rent and not get evicted.
posted by East14thTaco at 10:06 AM on June 18, 2023 [28 favorites]
posted by East14thTaco at 10:06 AM on June 18, 2023 [28 favorites]
Like royalty, commissioning chateaus or palaces and getting bored with them halfway through
posted by Countess Elena at 10:07 AM on June 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 10:07 AM on June 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
See, if you're rich enough, you can't be a deadbeat. This is why PPP loan forgiveness is OK but student loan forgiveness isn't.
posted by tclark at 10:22 AM on June 18, 2023 [48 favorites]
posted by tclark at 10:22 AM on June 18, 2023 [48 favorites]
This leads to the question if utilities were paid. You can accumulate quite a bit of damage with no water or heat in a Colorado winter if you don’t prepare for it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:24 AM on June 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:24 AM on June 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
What a succinct and thorough indictment of the failures of modern capitalism and corporatism. What a tragedy that its lessons are unlikely to be heeded or even noted.
posted by jzb at 10:26 AM on June 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by jzb at 10:26 AM on June 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
I was confused for 10 seconds by the typo in the first sentence ; I thought twitter was being e-vited to a birthday party in Colorado.
posted by WedgedPiano at 10:36 AM on June 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by WedgedPiano at 10:36 AM on June 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
This is the first reverse-Potemkin office building I've ever seen. The façade is coming from inside the building!
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:40 AM on June 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:40 AM on June 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
(emailed the mods, thank you WedgedPiano!)
This thread was really interesting to me because I anticipate heavier arguments about WFH/RTO over the upcoming months and years. What's caught in the middle are these massive monuments of corporate pride. Everyone is stuck holding the bag in some capacity.
I work in a similar office in a hybrid fashion and it's a ghost town when I'm there. They're trying all kinds of stuff to get people back in but nothing works. IMO, it was freaking Google that accelerated this idea that silly happy open spaces are what makes money but we've all since learned that it's really only advertising streams that make the money. However, it's too late. Everyone has built bean bag conference rooms and whimsical kitchens and acres of open hotdesks with string lamps and taco trucks in the middle of the room and all we really wanted was a quiet space with a closable door to get our work done. And WFH made us realize that our homes can work just fine like that kthx.
And how do you even repurpose these types of spaces? It's insane.
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:10 AM on June 18, 2023 [28 favorites]
This thread was really interesting to me because I anticipate heavier arguments about WFH/RTO over the upcoming months and years. What's caught in the middle are these massive monuments of corporate pride. Everyone is stuck holding the bag in some capacity.
I work in a similar office in a hybrid fashion and it's a ghost town when I'm there. They're trying all kinds of stuff to get people back in but nothing works. IMO, it was freaking Google that accelerated this idea that silly happy open spaces are what makes money but we've all since learned that it's really only advertising streams that make the money. However, it's too late. Everyone has built bean bag conference rooms and whimsical kitchens and acres of open hotdesks with string lamps and taco trucks in the middle of the room and all we really wanted was a quiet space with a closable door to get our work done. And WFH made us realize that our homes can work just fine like that kthx.
And how do you even repurpose these types of spaces? It's insane.
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:10 AM on June 18, 2023 [28 favorites]
Well, we could solve the homelessness problem pretty quickly
posted by Jacen at 11:14 AM on June 18, 2023 [29 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 11:14 AM on June 18, 2023 [29 favorites]
My company has ordered everyone into the office 1 day a week. Just before COVID hit, they opened a new training center in Philadelphia. That office is really convenient for me to travel to by train so that's where I go.
It's a huge space that could easily accommodate hundreds of employees and, every week, it's just me sitting at a random desk alone. Sometimes I work in a conference room, sometimes I grab one of the offices, sometimes I just set up on the ping pong table and use the giant tv as my monitor. It's all a shocking waste of money.
posted by Eddie Mars at 11:27 AM on June 18, 2023 [59 favorites]
It's a huge space that could easily accommodate hundreds of employees and, every week, it's just me sitting at a random desk alone. Sometimes I work in a conference room, sometimes I grab one of the offices, sometimes I just set up on the ping pong table and use the giant tv as my monitor. It's all a shocking waste of money.
posted by Eddie Mars at 11:27 AM on June 18, 2023 [59 favorites]
honestly, what a shit show. How did Jack Dorsey ever make any money doing anything?
posted by bluesky43 at 11:38 AM on June 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 11:38 AM on June 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
Anyone know where in Boulder this was?
posted by Clustercuss at 11:51 AM on June 18, 2023
posted by Clustercuss at 11:51 AM on June 18, 2023
"the government is inefficient and should be more like Business."
posted by entropone at 12:01 PM on June 18, 2023 [79 favorites]
posted by entropone at 12:01 PM on June 18, 2023 [79 favorites]
@clustercuss - Google Maps seems to think 3401 Bluff Street.
posted by jferg at 12:02 PM on June 18, 2023
posted by jferg at 12:02 PM on June 18, 2023
This thread was really interesting to me because I anticipate heavier arguments about WFH/RTO over the upcoming months and years.
I got laid off a month ago. Even though the tech labor market is currently tight, I only apply to companies in other states because a) they pay better b) Indiana has shitty labor laws, and c) I don't want to have to quit my job when management says, "going forward, everyone will be in the office three (or five!) days a week."
posted by double block and bleed at 12:05 PM on June 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
I got laid off a month ago. Even though the tech labor market is currently tight, I only apply to companies in other states because a) they pay better b) Indiana has shitty labor laws, and c) I don't want to have to quit my job when management says, "going forward, everyone will be in the office three (or five!) days a week."
posted by double block and bleed at 12:05 PM on June 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
yup, definitely 3401 Bluff St, via the thread: Boulder landlord succeeds in evicting Twitter over past due rent
posted by scruss at 12:06 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by scruss at 12:06 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Lol Bluff Street.
posted by biogeo at 12:09 PM on June 18, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 12:09 PM on June 18, 2023 [14 favorites]
What a succinct and thorough indictment of the failures of modern capitalism and corporatism. What a tragedy that its lessons are unlikely to be heeded or even noted.
I mean, it's certainly an indictment of organizational dysfunction and arrogant, shortsighted leadership. Those phenomena are not specific to capitalism.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:11 PM on June 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
I mean, it's certainly an indictment of organizational dysfunction and arrogant, shortsighted leadership. Those phenomena are not specific to capitalism.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:11 PM on June 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
shorter headline: Musk Bluffs Bluff St Gets Rebuffed
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:18 PM on June 18, 2023 [25 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:18 PM on June 18, 2023 [25 favorites]
No, but what does characterize capitalism is a lack of any self-correcting mechanism aside from business failure, the costs of which are generally borne not by those responsible for the organizational dysfunction and arrogant, short-sighted leadership, but by lower-level employees, customers, and, for sufficiently powerful corporations, the general public via the financial markets. Many of these people can see, and will happily talk about, the coming failures, but capitalism gives their expertise no voice. Democracy has its own failures, but when it's not too poisoned by the influence of capital, at least those impacted by decisions and those with knowledge have some form of voice.
posted by biogeo at 12:19 PM on June 18, 2023 [25 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 12:19 PM on June 18, 2023 [25 favorites]
My company has ordered everyone into the office 1 day a week. ... every week, it's just me sitting at a random desk alone.
Yeah, but how about that vital company culture, eh?
/s
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:47 PM on June 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
Yeah, but how about that vital company culture, eh?
/s
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:47 PM on June 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
My dean announced at an all-hands Zoom meeting about a month ago that "the end result will be the same: we will return to the office." They're trying to tell tenured faculty like me that we have to sit in our offices three days a week, even though I literally haven't been in my office except twice a week to water my plants since March 2020. There's no carrot, here; the stick is that faculty not present in the office when the dean's minions go looking a couple times a week will be ineligible for administrative positions. I'm like you have no idea how much I'm looking forward to being ineligible for administrative positions.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 1:10 PM on June 18, 2023 [84 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 1:10 PM on June 18, 2023 [84 favorites]
My company has basically seemed to have given up on getting people back into the office. It's more if you want to work there you can. And it's a nice new office (much nicer than the old one) that for some unknown reason they decided to lease during the height of the pandemic. They really expected everything to return to the old days but now after three years of working from home it'll take a lot to get people to come back. And the things they've tried have been absurd. Free donuts on Fridays! A $20 GrubHub voucher on Wednesdays (which with the price of delivery now that wouldn't be enough to cover it). It's just not gonna happen.
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:24 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:24 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
“IMO, it was freaking Google that accelerated this idea that silly happy open spaces are what makes money but we've all since learned that it's really only advertising streams that make the money. However, it's too late. Everyone has built bean bag conference rooms and whimsical kitchens and acres of open hotdesks with string lamps and taco trucks in the middle of the room and all we really wanted was a quiet space with a closable door to get our work done.”
With regard to the big shared spaces (not the acres of open hotdesks) it wasn't Google. More likely it was Yahoo and other big SV dotcoms in the 90s.
The main offices of the dotcom I worked at in Austin at the end of the 90s had all of those accoutrements and more. I mean, in the first year I worked there the value of my stock options increased to 45x their value of when I got them at hire, most of that only in the ten months since the IPO. Within another six months the stock doubled again, making it 90x what it was when I started 18 months earlier. We had masseuses and concierge service, highly designed "cool" architecture and spaces, free beer on Friday afternoons, kitchens and free food, an expansive arcade games room, and the like. The dotcom era pioneered this kind of extravagance.
Of course, for us (but not past 2001) we — everyone, not just the higher-paid positions — went from these luxurious open spaces back to our nice two-person shared offices with names on plaques beside their doors and not the hideous openspace hotdesking that tech workers endure now. I got out just in time. I would absolutely hate working in today's offices. Hate. With a passion. Real workplaces† have offices.
Why would people who've become accustomed to WFH willingly go back to today's dystopian workplaces?
I loved these two bits from the thread:
† White-collar / professional workplaces, that is.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:50 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
With regard to the big shared spaces (not the acres of open hotdesks) it wasn't Google. More likely it was Yahoo and other big SV dotcoms in the 90s.
The main offices of the dotcom I worked at in Austin at the end of the 90s had all of those accoutrements and more. I mean, in the first year I worked there the value of my stock options increased to 45x their value of when I got them at hire, most of that only in the ten months since the IPO. Within another six months the stock doubled again, making it 90x what it was when I started 18 months earlier. We had masseuses and concierge service, highly designed "cool" architecture and spaces, free beer on Friday afternoons, kitchens and free food, an expansive arcade games room, and the like. The dotcom era pioneered this kind of extravagance.
Of course, for us (but not past 2001) we — everyone, not just the higher-paid positions — went from these luxurious open spaces back to our nice two-person shared offices with names on plaques beside their doors and not the hideous openspace hotdesking that tech workers endure now. I got out just in time. I would absolutely hate working in today's offices. Hate. With a passion. Real workplaces† have offices.
Why would people who've become accustomed to WFH willingly go back to today's dystopian workplaces?
I loved these two bits from the thread:
Everyone hated this office too, and the people who were assigned to it started asking if they could move back to the Twitter Dungeon because it wasn't looking so bad anymore.and
Twitter Boulder had segmented into 3 classes. The upper class on floors 3 and 4 in the actual office (where all the execs, sales, and some engineers were located). The middle class in the dungeon. The lower class dumped into the unloved fake office where your company badge didn't even work - you had to carry a second one.
People were asked to come into the [brand-new] office, largely so photos could be taken without it looking abandoned. It didn't work, even the grand opening of the space only brought about 15 people in, 2 of whom were required to be there to staff the front desk.I should admit that I'm fond of basements, so I might have been okay with that part. But I'm some kind of weird morlock, maybe.
3 days later, Elon Musk was invited to a company-wide all-hands AMA where he was repeatedly asked about remote work and layoffs, to which he was noncommittal about his plans, though he did talk a bit about alien civilizations.
† White-collar / professional workplaces, that is.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:50 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
We were sent home for Covid in 2020. Last summer, as part of a move to a different building, we evacuated our old offices. The move still(!) isn't done, so we don't have any offices to go back to. (One of my coworkers had to go in for something, so he worked on what will be our new floor. He said that it was very peaceful.)
We're definitely getting mixed signals. On the one hand, we had to take a survey recently to justify working from home, even though that's really the only option. OTOH, at the last get together, we were told that a plan's in the works to let us work from any of the 50 states. So, who knows what'll happen.
posted by Spike Glee at 2:26 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
We're definitely getting mixed signals. On the one hand, we had to take a survey recently to justify working from home, even though that's really the only option. OTOH, at the last get together, we were told that a plan's in the works to let us work from any of the 50 states. So, who knows what'll happen.
posted by Spike Glee at 2:26 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
It'd be hilarious if Twitter folds during an election year. lol
Ain't likely though..
I'd predict that Musk's Saudi backers buy him out, so then Saudis control Twitter, which helps them elect oil men, or at least oil friendlies like Biden.
Almost like Russia's silly little targets ad buys against Hillary Clinton, except thousands of times more effective. I'd bet they'd love races like say Marjorie Taylor Greene & Jeb Bush vs Joe Manchin & Jim Costa in 2028.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:31 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ain't likely though..
I'd predict that Musk's Saudi backers buy him out, so then Saudis control Twitter, which helps them elect oil men, or at least oil friendlies like Biden.
Almost like Russia's silly little targets ad buys against Hillary Clinton, except thousands of times more effective. I'd bet they'd love races like say Marjorie Taylor Greene & Jeb Bush vs Joe Manchin & Jim Costa in 2028.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:31 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
“I'd predict that Musk's Saudi backers buy him out, so then Saudis control Twitter, which helps them elect oil men, or at least oil friendlies like Biden.”
US regulators wouldn't ever let that happen, not to mention many other powerful interests. (Okay, not never — on its current trajectory, there's a point where no one will care.)
The Saudis have already decided that they can't rely on the US, and that's becoming sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy as the US has always found the relationship a bit problematic, certainly more so in the last few years, and as the Saudis forge new and renewed relationships to compensate (in numerous cases with parties the US is not friendly to), the US is finding the rationale for the strategic relationship less and less compelling. I really think the Saudis are driving this more than the US is, although of course the US becoming a net oil exporter is very important and arguably the only thing that's really changed.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:45 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
US regulators wouldn't ever let that happen, not to mention many other powerful interests. (Okay, not never — on its current trajectory, there's a point where no one will care.)
The Saudis have already decided that they can't rely on the US, and that's becoming sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy as the US has always found the relationship a bit problematic, certainly more so in the last few years, and as the Saudis forge new and renewed relationships to compensate (in numerous cases with parties the US is not friendly to), the US is finding the rationale for the strategic relationship less and less compelling. I really think the Saudis are driving this more than the US is, although of course the US becoming a net oil exporter is very important and arguably the only thing that's really changed.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:45 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Well, we could solve the homelessness problem pretty quickly
One of the big catches with this kind of transformation is the plumbing situation.
An office building typically has a few bathrooms in central locations. But every apartment unit needs its own bathroom.
posted by cheshyre at 2:57 PM on June 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
One of the big catches with this kind of transformation is the plumbing situation.
An office building typically has a few bathrooms in central locations. But every apartment unit needs its own bathroom.
posted by cheshyre at 2:57 PM on June 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
>>IMO, it was freaking Google that accelerated this idea that silly happy open spaces are what makes money...
>With regard to the big shared spaces (not the acres of open hotdesks) it wasn't Google. More likely it was Yahoo and other big SV dotcoms in the 90s.
They did say accelerated, and I agree. I was in the dot com boom also, and yes, that generation introduced office amenities, but in my experience, it was Google who poured the kerosene onto that small "open office" fire. I worked in their NYC office as a contractor for a few months in 2010, and it was very different than the first wave of offices I saw in the late 90s.
The company I work for can be found on this portfolio of offices designed in the 2010s and upward, if you browse through a few of these examples you'll see that similar pattern emerge: a high end fancy cookie cutter template of open offices, with a quirky highlight or two to express some individuality.
Our company took open office to the extreme, in a 30,000 square foot space there were *no* private offices for anyone, not even the CEO. Each day was a hard "reset", no personal items allowed on any desk overnight, put your stuff in lockers and bring them out each day if you want. The folks who still worked with paper and files had these rolling file cabinets that they would have to bring next to their workspace and then dock and lock them at night in a central location.
In 2015, the updated digs were seen as a way to bring in younger workers who expected the "traditional" tech trappings (cafe, snacks, etc.) And yes, finding privacy or a meeting room on the fly was a hassle and it was common to see people wandering around on their cell phones in the building stairwells or lobby.
Then we went 100% remote in the middle of the first pandemic wave, found some tech company to take on the lease, and a WFH company to this day. Personally, I'm down with it, but I'm middle-aged and enjoy my home routine. If I were in my 20s/30s and had a small or shared apartment, I would probably be chomping at the bit to get out of my house, not to mention socialize. It doesn't surprise me that there's a WFH "backlash", although I suspect the reasons are complex and not easily generalized.
posted by jeremias at 3:08 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
>With regard to the big shared spaces (not the acres of open hotdesks) it wasn't Google. More likely it was Yahoo and other big SV dotcoms in the 90s.
They did say accelerated, and I agree. I was in the dot com boom also, and yes, that generation introduced office amenities, but in my experience, it was Google who poured the kerosene onto that small "open office" fire. I worked in their NYC office as a contractor for a few months in 2010, and it was very different than the first wave of offices I saw in the late 90s.
The company I work for can be found on this portfolio of offices designed in the 2010s and upward, if you browse through a few of these examples you'll see that similar pattern emerge: a high end fancy cookie cutter template of open offices, with a quirky highlight or two to express some individuality.
Our company took open office to the extreme, in a 30,000 square foot space there were *no* private offices for anyone, not even the CEO. Each day was a hard "reset", no personal items allowed on any desk overnight, put your stuff in lockers and bring them out each day if you want. The folks who still worked with paper and files had these rolling file cabinets that they would have to bring next to their workspace and then dock and lock them at night in a central location.
In 2015, the updated digs were seen as a way to bring in younger workers who expected the "traditional" tech trappings (cafe, snacks, etc.) And yes, finding privacy or a meeting room on the fly was a hassle and it was common to see people wandering around on their cell phones in the building stairwells or lobby.
Then we went 100% remote in the middle of the first pandemic wave, found some tech company to take on the lease, and a WFH company to this day. Personally, I'm down with it, but I'm middle-aged and enjoy my home routine. If I were in my 20s/30s and had a small or shared apartment, I would probably be chomping at the bit to get out of my house, not to mention socialize. It doesn't surprise me that there's a WFH "backlash", although I suspect the reasons are complex and not easily generalized.
posted by jeremias at 3:08 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
We should be talking about how not paying rent is a way to get out of a contract you don't want to be in. This is a particularly likely candidate for that because it's never been used, but Twitter is still on the hook for it. Getting evicted is probably the goal.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 3:08 PM on June 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 3:08 PM on June 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
>> Well, we could solve the homelessness problem pretty quickly
> One of the big catches with this kind of transformation is the plumbing situation.
An office building typically has a few bathrooms in central locations. But every apartment unit needs its own bathroom.
Timely, from San Francisco: Downtown Rescue Plan Calls for Office-to-Housing Conversions
> One of the big catches with this kind of transformation is the plumbing situation.
An office building typically has a few bathrooms in central locations. But every apartment unit needs its own bathroom.
Timely, from San Francisco: Downtown Rescue Plan Calls for Office-to-Housing Conversions
The road map to rescue San Francisco’s Downtown is beginning to take shape with new legislation meant to streamline the process of turning underused office buildings to housing and address the growing number of commercial vacancies in the city’s central business district.posted by clawsoon at 4:26 PM on June 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
Planning officials have said that, unlike other parts of the city, housing conversions are allowed Downtown under current zoning. The problem often lies in the details, such as building standards for entrances, exits and open spaces, which can be difficult to achieve in older Downtown buildings.
The legislation, from Mayor London Breed and Supervisor Aaron Peskin, would change the city's planning codes to relax rules for conversion projects like rear yard, exposure and parking requirements.
When I graduated in 1998, I got a job and was given a private window office on the 19th floor of a 1930s art-deco skyscraper. The door locked and everything. I had no idea that would be the peak of my office arrangements and that I'd have to spend the bulk of the rest of my career desperately trying to concentrate at my desk in a sea of desks in a fucking dystopian open plan nightmare.
Now I'm happy to work from home in my quiet window office on the second floor of my townhouse. No one bothers me and I get so much more work done.
posted by octothorpe at 4:51 PM on June 18, 2023 [27 favorites]
Now I'm happy to work from home in my quiet window office on the second floor of my townhouse. No one bothers me and I get so much more work done.
posted by octothorpe at 4:51 PM on June 18, 2023 [27 favorites]
I honestly thought not paying rent was a new innovation in corporate culture. I can picture the meeting...
We stiffed the workers, we don't pay tax, we don't follow regulations... have we tried not paying the rent?
Elon tents his fingers.
posted by adept256 at 5:25 PM on June 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
We stiffed the workers, we don't pay tax, we don't follow regulations... have we tried not paying the rent?
Elon tents his fingers.
posted by adept256 at 5:25 PM on June 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
The Denver Post story linked upthread was an interesting read. It appears that the landlord had no expectation that Twitter was going to pay and moved quickly to eviction once a letter of credit was exhausted; a few snips from the article:
The landlord issued a default notice to Twitter, which went ignored. Through the end of March, Lot 2 SBO instead used a letter of credit deposited by Twitter for $968,000 to pay the rent, “which serves as security for Tenant’s performance under the Lease.”
The landlord sought not only possession of the building, but also the past-due rent, attorneys’ fees and costs, and both pre-judgment and post-judgment interest.
A representative for Twitter didn’t appear or send an answer by the return date of the summons, according to the court document
A judge for Boulder County’s district court permitted law enforcement to evict the tenant on May 31...
And I think you can't write a story about Twitter without the obligatory:
Twitter’s press email auto-replied to a request for comment with a poop emoji.
posted by BlueTongueLizard at 5:56 PM on June 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
The landlord issued a default notice to Twitter, which went ignored. Through the end of March, Lot 2 SBO instead used a letter of credit deposited by Twitter for $968,000 to pay the rent, “which serves as security for Tenant’s performance under the Lease.”
The landlord sought not only possession of the building, but also the past-due rent, attorneys’ fees and costs, and both pre-judgment and post-judgment interest.
A representative for Twitter didn’t appear or send an answer by the return date of the summons, according to the court document
A judge for Boulder County’s district court permitted law enforcement to evict the tenant on May 31...
And I think you can't write a story about Twitter without the obligatory:
Twitter’s press email auto-replied to a request for comment with a poop emoji.
posted by BlueTongueLizard at 5:56 PM on June 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
Well, we could solve the homelessness problem pretty quickly
Boulder is a city that considers 3 or more unrelated people living in one home a criminal act.
Not that the residents would ever go for it anyway, but it would be against the law to use this for building to house the homeless.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 6:19 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Boulder is a city that considers 3 or more unrelated people living in one home a criminal act.
Not that the residents would ever go for it anyway, but it would be against the law to use this for building to house the homeless.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 6:19 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Twitter’s press email auto-replied to a request for comment with a poop emoji.
TBH I wish the press wouldn't give Musk's juvenile joking -- heh heh heh poop emoji heh heh heh -- any more attention; I'm pretty sure he gets off on it every time it's mentioned.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 6:34 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
TBH I wish the press wouldn't give Musk's juvenile joking -- heh heh heh poop emoji heh heh heh -- any more attention; I'm pretty sure he gets off on it every time it's mentioned.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 6:34 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
have we tried not paying the rent?
good campaign slogan if Elon ever runs for public office in any shape or form
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:36 PM on June 18, 2023
good campaign slogan if Elon ever runs for public office in any shape or form
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:36 PM on June 18, 2023
What happened to the not-paying-rent on Twitter SF HQ thing? There were a bunch of stories about it in January but nothing since.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 6:37 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 6:37 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm always surprised by the disdain for office working here. For various reasons the most sensible work arrangement for me at the moment is to freelance and work at home but if I could at all make it work to have a normal job around other people I would be ridiculously all over it. People to talk to! A place without the distractions of home! A place to call work that isn't my loungeroom! I honestly dream of such things. Getting to go there every work day would make it even better.
posted by deadwax at 6:38 PM on June 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by deadwax at 6:38 PM on June 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
They sucked his brains out!: I'd suggest: "Musk's Bluff Street Bluff Rebuffed" as even more succinct.
posted by jferg at 6:59 PM on June 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by jferg at 6:59 PM on June 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
Getting to go there every work day would make it even better.
Specifically for Boulder, houses average around $1M. Which means most of us would get to join the other 20k to 60k daily commuters into and out of Boulder. Having spent one and a half hours of my life doing that every day, 6 days a week, for 12 years, I'll take working from my living room.
posted by SunSnork at 7:03 PM on June 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
Specifically for Boulder, houses average around $1M. Which means most of us would get to join the other 20k to 60k daily commuters into and out of Boulder. Having spent one and a half hours of my life doing that every day, 6 days a week, for 12 years, I'll take working from my living room.
posted by SunSnork at 7:03 PM on June 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
I really like going into the office, but not every day. I really like working from home, but not all the time. I love a hybrid schedule and am fortunate to have one (I go in on the days my boss-doctor is in the office, and I WFH on the days he's in the OR or out of the office).
posted by joannemerriam at 7:12 PM on June 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by joannemerriam at 7:12 PM on June 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
if I could at all make it work to have a normal job around other people I would be ridiculously all over it. ... Getting to go there every work day would make it even better.
All I can say is, you do you but that's not a universal constant.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:24 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
All I can say is, you do you but that's not a universal constant.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:24 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Oh well if this is going to be the office complaint thread...
I didn't know I would hate undivided desks as much as I do. I don't mine it not being "mine" whatever, but having another person feet away breathing and talking in full eyesight turns out to be unbearably distracting. I get very little done and take frequent bathroom breaks because at least there's a door.
I've done cubes for years, I can adapt, but apparently open plan fills me with a distracting mix of anxiety and resentment that really impacts my productivity.
I'm supposed to be in three days a week but they don't enforce it yet, so I go in once a week or skip altogether.
Just let me work at home, man. I'm so much better there.
posted by emjaybee at 7:29 PM on June 18, 2023 [14 favorites]
I didn't know I would hate undivided desks as much as I do. I don't mine it not being "mine" whatever, but having another person feet away breathing and talking in full eyesight turns out to be unbearably distracting. I get very little done and take frequent bathroom breaks because at least there's a door.
I've done cubes for years, I can adapt, but apparently open plan fills me with a distracting mix of anxiety and resentment that really impacts my productivity.
I'm supposed to be in three days a week but they don't enforce it yet, so I go in once a week or skip altogether.
Just let me work at home, man. I'm so much better there.
posted by emjaybee at 7:29 PM on June 18, 2023 [14 favorites]
Well, we could solve the homelessness problem pretty quickly
One of the big catches with this kind of transformation is the plumbing situation.
As well, the building code mandates windows for residential spaces and the classic office space floor plan is a big square with windows on the edges; slicing it into apartments means people would live in a flat shaped like a bowling alley.
A recent study in Toronto found that something like 31% of the office space is potentially usable as residential space. That’s a lot of space that no one knows what to do with.
I am often in the PATH beneath downtown Toronto. I’ve been thinking for a couple of years now that the collapse of commercial real estate coupled with the number of condo buildings going up in the core is going to shift the focus of the PATH away from being a sprawling disorderly mall into maybe something a bit different. Last week I saw something unthinkable five years ago; beneath Commerce Court, a small storefront that was a Flight Centre in the before times is now stocked with a few tables and chairs, two bookshelves mostly full of potboilers, a shelf of board games and a foosball table. There is wi-fi and charging points. It’s... unusual.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:46 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
One of the big catches with this kind of transformation is the plumbing situation.
As well, the building code mandates windows for residential spaces and the classic office space floor plan is a big square with windows on the edges; slicing it into apartments means people would live in a flat shaped like a bowling alley.
A recent study in Toronto found that something like 31% of the office space is potentially usable as residential space. That’s a lot of space that no one knows what to do with.
I am often in the PATH beneath downtown Toronto. I’ve been thinking for a couple of years now that the collapse of commercial real estate coupled with the number of condo buildings going up in the core is going to shift the focus of the PATH away from being a sprawling disorderly mall into maybe something a bit different. Last week I saw something unthinkable five years ago; beneath Commerce Court, a small storefront that was a Flight Centre in the before times is now stocked with a few tables and chairs, two bookshelves mostly full of potboilers, a shelf of board games and a foosball table. There is wi-fi and charging points. It’s... unusual.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:46 PM on June 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
That would be a great band name, “The Shrine of Inflexibility”…
posted by beckybakeroo at 8:30 PM on June 18, 2023
posted by beckybakeroo at 8:30 PM on June 18, 2023
My company has big fancy offices that were planned pre-pandemic and they’re really trying to get us (well, people based out of the office; I went remote when I saw the writing on the wall) to go back. After a year, they closed half of the office space because there just weren’t enough people. Even now, the desk areas feel empty and all the conference rooms are booked solid because drumroll everybody’s remote.
It’s kinda funny because I actually really like working in the office! I just deeply hate commuting and how much time it takes. We also have the “no personal effects overnight” thing and it makes me even less likely to show up. A small lockable cubby would be really nice but I don’t think that kind of partial-occupancy enabling amenity would be something the company would do.
posted by Brassica oleracea at 8:51 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
It’s kinda funny because I actually really like working in the office! I just deeply hate commuting and how much time it takes. We also have the “no personal effects overnight” thing and it makes me even less likely to show up. A small lockable cubby would be really nice but I don’t think that kind of partial-occupancy enabling amenity would be something the company would do.
posted by Brassica oleracea at 8:51 PM on June 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Stuff like this makes me so glad that my every-few-days “office” is “what coffee shop do I feel like today?”
posted by gottabefunky at 8:59 PM on June 18, 2023
posted by gottabefunky at 8:59 PM on June 18, 2023
Unfortunately, I don't think that large open plan office spaces are going to instantly solve homelessness.
Most people here are saying they don't even want to work in them, because of the lack of personal space and privacy issues. Can you imagine trying to sleep in them? With a handful of toilets and a couple kitchenettes for a whole floor? They'd need to be gutted and completely renovated to be suitable for anything other than the most temporary of emergency housing.
posted by other barry at 9:01 PM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Most people here are saying they don't even want to work in them, because of the lack of personal space and privacy issues. Can you imagine trying to sleep in them? With a handful of toilets and a couple kitchenettes for a whole floor? They'd need to be gutted and completely renovated to be suitable for anything other than the most temporary of emergency housing.
posted by other barry at 9:01 PM on June 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Going back to the office, it seems to me, depends on making the commute not suck. And that's something that is mostly out of the control of the corporate overlords.
I dislike going into the office mostly because I have to get up earlier than I would on WFH days, and I can't sneak a mid-morning run with the dog. The commute itself is a hassle, even though it's not that hard for me.
But employees will not be willing to come back to the office full-time until it's easier to get to the office.
posted by suelac at 9:34 PM on June 18, 2023
I dislike going into the office mostly because I have to get up earlier than I would on WFH days, and I can't sneak a mid-morning run with the dog. The commute itself is a hassle, even though it's not that hard for me.
But employees will not be willing to come back to the office full-time until it's easier to get to the office.
posted by suelac at 9:34 PM on June 18, 2023
> Twitter’s press email auto-replied to a request for comment with a poop emoji.
I hope they try this with the judge.
posted by nickzoic at 9:45 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I hope they try this with the judge.
posted by nickzoic at 9:45 PM on June 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
A small lockable cubby would be really nice but I don’t think that kind of partial-occupancy enabling amenity would be something the company would do.
I wonder how many offices nowadays even could easily install a locker system.
posted by smelendez at 9:49 PM on June 18, 2023
I wonder how many offices nowadays even could easily install a locker system.
posted by smelendez at 9:49 PM on June 18, 2023
It's funny to me how much media there was that depicted cubicles as like, the worst expression of a dreary office. Then we got the open office... I would have loved a cubicle when I was still working from the office.
There's a lot of potential positives about being in a shared work environment that isn't my home, but the downsides of how they're actually designed and operated are massive.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:14 AM on June 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
There's a lot of potential positives about being in a shared work environment that isn't my home, but the downsides of how they're actually designed and operated are massive.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:14 AM on June 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
I mostly love working in the office, but a good chunk of that is because it’s 5 minutes walk from my apartment. I didn’t mind WFH particularly, but I do need some separation from work/home otherwise I’ll end up futzing around with something until the small hours. Something has to give, though, working in the giant, mostly empty office is just uncomfortably reminiscent of Severance, and I am more than occasionally haunted by visions of a future mass layoff where I recall bouncing around millions of dollars worth of underutilized corporate real estate and think oh yes of course that was unsustainable .
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:15 AM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:15 AM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
On the conversion-to-housing front:
Lots of housing becomes possible, even cheap, if laws and norms change a bit. It's not like shared bathrooms and kitchens are unheard of.
posted by daveliepmann at 12:37 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
An office building typically has a few bathrooms in central locations. But every apartment unit needs its own bathroom.SROs ("which allow a resident to lease a private bedroom with a shared bathroom and kitchen"; see link below) and other downmarket arrangements can solve this problem neatly, if folks are willing to soften their view of what housing must be.
the United States has...waged a multi-faceted war against the legality of small dwellings, with boarding houses and single-room occupancy (SRO) hotels driven out by zoning codes. But rather than improve life for those who would have previously lived in these accommodations, the move has largely shifted people into homeless shelters or sleeping on the street.–Legalize housing, not tent encampments [Slow Boring]
Lots of housing becomes possible, even cheap, if laws and norms change a bit. It's not like shared bathrooms and kitchens are unheard of.
posted by daveliepmann at 12:37 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
c) I don't want to have to quit my job when management says, "going forward, everyone will be in the office three (or five!) days a week."
Just as an aside, being an out-of-state employee doesn't keep this from happening. I have a relative who took a fairly high-level out-of-state job specifically so she could work remote. Two years later, it was "everyone in the office at least 3 days/week" for no apparent reason, with almost no warning. They are now preparing to move because they don't have a good alternative.
I work a crap government job with no option for remote work, so I don't really know what I'm missing I guess. Only silver lining is I have a short commute - I don't mind being in an office but I cannot stand commuting.
posted by photo guy at 1:17 AM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Just as an aside, being an out-of-state employee doesn't keep this from happening. I have a relative who took a fairly high-level out-of-state job specifically so she could work remote. Two years later, it was "everyone in the office at least 3 days/week" for no apparent reason, with almost no warning. They are now preparing to move because they don't have a good alternative.
I work a crap government job with no option for remote work, so I don't really know what I'm missing I guess. Only silver lining is I have a short commute - I don't mind being in an office but I cannot stand commuting.
posted by photo guy at 1:17 AM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's hilarious (??) how plush and luxurious the Office Space cubicles look today.
such physical walls
so sound barrier
posted by away for regrooving at 1:25 AM on June 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
such physical walls
so sound barrier
posted by away for regrooving at 1:25 AM on June 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
honestly, what a shit show. How did Jack Dorsey ever make any money doing anything?
Gradually, then suddenly—he found a greater fool.
posted by The Tensor at 1:28 AM on June 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Gradually, then suddenly—he found a greater fool.
posted by The Tensor at 1:28 AM on June 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
If I have to go into the office, then I like the open plan. The main benefit of being there is chatting to other people that I wouldn't otherwise see. It is less than helpful if I then spend all day video conferencing. At the moment, I only really go in if I have an errand to run or I'm meeting someone for coffee or drinks.
My organisation took on shiny new office space in two locations coincidentally in 2020. I'm not sure what we're going to do long term, as they're all woefully underused because we recruit anyone to any office regardless of where the rest of their team is located. Which just means that there's little to no advantage to go into your home office. Unless it's the one where all the senior management are located.
posted by plonkee at 1:35 AM on June 19, 2023
My organisation took on shiny new office space in two locations coincidentally in 2020. I'm not sure what we're going to do long term, as they're all woefully underused because we recruit anyone to any office regardless of where the rest of their team is located. Which just means that there's little to no advantage to go into your home office. Unless it's the one where all the senior management are located.
posted by plonkee at 1:35 AM on June 19, 2023
I hope they try this with the judge.
It sounds like they basically did, by virtue of just not showing up for any of the hearings. And lo and behold, they got a fast-track eviction and probably some sort of default judgment for back rent that they'll have to try and slither out of.
Honestly the whole Musk-Twitter thing is just fascinating to me in a can't-stop-watching-the-train-wreck sort of way. It's not perhaps the company I'd most liked to see a toddler-minded billionaire just nosedive directly into the terrain, but… maybe we needed an example of how even a large-ish company is not bigger than the legal system?
At least based on my limited experience, I cannot think of a group of people more likely to be unimpressed with Elon's antics than trial court judges.
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:38 AM on June 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
It sounds like they basically did, by virtue of just not showing up for any of the hearings. And lo and behold, they got a fast-track eviction and probably some sort of default judgment for back rent that they'll have to try and slither out of.
Honestly the whole Musk-Twitter thing is just fascinating to me in a can't-stop-watching-the-train-wreck sort of way. It's not perhaps the company I'd most liked to see a toddler-minded billionaire just nosedive directly into the terrain, but… maybe we needed an example of how even a large-ish company is not bigger than the legal system?
At least based on my limited experience, I cannot think of a group of people more likely to be unimpressed with Elon's antics than trial court judges.
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:38 AM on June 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
acres of open hotdesks
A while back when my job hired more people than they actually had room to put in the building, they started talking about moving us to more of an open-plan sort of deal.
A direct quote from my boss: "We can't work in an open-plan office. [Mr. Bad Example] would kill someone."
It's nice to work for someone who really gets you, you know?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 3:19 AM on June 19, 2023 [25 favorites]
A while back when my job hired more people than they actually had room to put in the building, they started talking about moving us to more of an open-plan sort of deal.
A direct quote from my boss: "We can't work in an open-plan office. [Mr. Bad Example] would kill someone."
It's nice to work for someone who really gets you, you know?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 3:19 AM on June 19, 2023 [25 favorites]
It's nice to work for someone who really gets you, you know?
Some places actually ARE a 'work family'.
posted by rough ashlar at 4:19 AM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Some places actually ARE a 'work family'.
posted by rough ashlar at 4:19 AM on June 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Going back to the office, it seems to me, depends on making the commute not suck. This is the big one that I think is ignored by a lot of execs making these decisions. Probably because execs can afford downtown garage parking or maybe even get a parking space as part of their elevated position. Or, they work in the suburbs near enough a commuter rail station that their commute is shorter time-wise than a (likely) younger person who lives in the city but takes city transit.
Before COVID, it was pretty much expected that you would take transit to an office in downtown Chicago, NY, Boston, SF, etc. Then the pandemic hit and roads emptied, and the folks who were going in to an office started driving because why not? Meanwhile, public transit service levels cratered; between revenue shortfalls and staffing challenges because bus/train drivers quit (or died from COVID!) buses and trains started operating with much longer headways. And downtown parking rates dropped due to the decline in demand. Suddenly, it was affordable and "made more sense" for a lot more people to start driving to work.
As more people started returning to the office though, traffic slowly got worse than it ever was before the pandemic (even though so many folks are still working from home at least some of the time). But because driving is addictive and it was a sort of frog in boiling water situation, lots of folks are still driving; they're complaining about the terrible traffic and how long it's taking to drive to work but not switching back to transit. And who can blame them, when transit service levels are still terrible, only now the buses are stuck in all the car traffic and trains are packed full because they aren't running enough of them?
I wouldn't want to go into the office 5 days a week, but after an adjustment period I started appreciating our 2x/week schedule at my org. My org asks everyone to come in the same two days a week so it's not empty when we're there. I've realized it's not good for me to spend hours stewing in resentment and frustrations with colleagues on a screen, if running into them near the coffee maker can re-humanize them for me and help me get over it. It's good to be reminded that they are people, too, which is much harder when my only interaction is on a screen. And I like to interact with someone in person who isn't my partner throughout the week.
But I am only able to manage and even appreciate going in twice a week because I can bike to work, which literally cuts my transit commute time (at current service levels) in half. 45 minutes instead of an hour and a half, plus biking is exercise and fresh air and fun, when I'm not almost getting killed by inattentive or aggressive drivers. I would be a lot more miserable about forced hybrid if I was looking at 3 hours of round-trip commute every time I went in.
My company's lease is up in two years and the execs are starting the process now to figure out what is next for us. Although I think there are benefits to the way we are doing hybrid (everyone comes in on the same days) it does make it hard for them to reduce space needs. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out - do they change our hybrid model to save money on real estate? Do they start forcing us in all 5 days to justify the cost? I just hope wherever we end up has the same amenities as our current building (great location, secure bike storage room, fitness center on site, outdoor plazas and spaces for tenants to use, etc.)
posted by misskaz at 5:04 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
Before COVID, it was pretty much expected that you would take transit to an office in downtown Chicago, NY, Boston, SF, etc. Then the pandemic hit and roads emptied, and the folks who were going in to an office started driving because why not? Meanwhile, public transit service levels cratered; between revenue shortfalls and staffing challenges because bus/train drivers quit (or died from COVID!) buses and trains started operating with much longer headways. And downtown parking rates dropped due to the decline in demand. Suddenly, it was affordable and "made more sense" for a lot more people to start driving to work.
As more people started returning to the office though, traffic slowly got worse than it ever was before the pandemic (even though so many folks are still working from home at least some of the time). But because driving is addictive and it was a sort of frog in boiling water situation, lots of folks are still driving; they're complaining about the terrible traffic and how long it's taking to drive to work but not switching back to transit. And who can blame them, when transit service levels are still terrible, only now the buses are stuck in all the car traffic and trains are packed full because they aren't running enough of them?
I wouldn't want to go into the office 5 days a week, but after an adjustment period I started appreciating our 2x/week schedule at my org. My org asks everyone to come in the same two days a week so it's not empty when we're there. I've realized it's not good for me to spend hours stewing in resentment and frustrations with colleagues on a screen, if running into them near the coffee maker can re-humanize them for me and help me get over it. It's good to be reminded that they are people, too, which is much harder when my only interaction is on a screen. And I like to interact with someone in person who isn't my partner throughout the week.
But I am only able to manage and even appreciate going in twice a week because I can bike to work, which literally cuts my transit commute time (at current service levels) in half. 45 minutes instead of an hour and a half, plus biking is exercise and fresh air and fun, when I'm not almost getting killed by inattentive or aggressive drivers. I would be a lot more miserable about forced hybrid if I was looking at 3 hours of round-trip commute every time I went in.
My company's lease is up in two years and the execs are starting the process now to figure out what is next for us. Although I think there are benefits to the way we are doing hybrid (everyone comes in on the same days) it does make it hard for them to reduce space needs. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out - do they change our hybrid model to save money on real estate? Do they start forcing us in all 5 days to justify the cost? I just hope wherever we end up has the same amenities as our current building (great location, secure bike storage room, fitness center on site, outdoor plazas and spaces for tenants to use, etc.)
posted by misskaz at 5:04 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
I actually live more or less "downtown", not quite in the CBD but it's a 20 minute walk away, but my office is way out in the suburbs with no bus routes going there so it would be a half hour drive out there. We're in manufacturing so there's a certain number of people who are always there but there's zero benefit for me to be there other than to eat the free lunch on Wednesdays.
posted by octothorpe at 6:43 AM on June 19, 2023
posted by octothorpe at 6:43 AM on June 19, 2023
They'd need to be gutted and completely renovated to be suitable for anything other than the most temporary of emergency housing.
People keep suggesting this without ever fixing their mouths to say "Yes, I would like to live like this with complete strangers," probably because of a instinctual understanding about the bathroom/dining situation even though they don't know how exactly much fixing it would cost.
I have way more hope for the newly vacated hotels in SF than a space wholly unintended for residency.
posted by Selena777 at 6:46 AM on June 19, 2023
People keep suggesting this without ever fixing their mouths to say "Yes, I would like to live like this with complete strangers," probably because of a instinctual understanding about the bathroom/dining situation even though they don't know how exactly much fixing it would cost.
I have way more hope for the newly vacated hotels in SF than a space wholly unintended for residency.
posted by Selena777 at 6:46 AM on June 19, 2023
The smaller footprint pre-1950s office buildings work pretty well for apartment conversions but the big block-sized plate buildings from after then are really only useful for offices and storage.
posted by octothorpe at 6:56 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 6:56 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
The smaller footprint pre-1950s office buildings work pretty well for apartment conversions but the big block-sized plate buildings from after then are really only useful for offices and storage.
The NYTimes did an interesting article with interactive diagrams (free gift link) that shows the challenges visually about how the shape and size of the building impacts the conversion to housing. There was a pretty interesting use case of taking out a chunk of the middle of the building to add in more interior windows and then adding the removed volume on top of the building.
posted by mmascolino at 7:11 AM on June 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
The NYTimes did an interesting article with interactive diagrams (free gift link) that shows the challenges visually about how the shape and size of the building impacts the conversion to housing. There was a pretty interesting use case of taking out a chunk of the middle of the building to add in more interior windows and then adding the removed volume on top of the building.
posted by mmascolino at 7:11 AM on June 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
At least based on my limited experience, I cannot think of a group of people more likely to be unimpressed with Elon's antics than trial court judges.
Here's some more fun: Twitter’s Lawyers Admit They’re Overwhelmed As Nearly 2000 Laid Off Employees File Arbitration Claims
Here's some more fun: Twitter’s Lawyers Admit They’re Overwhelmed As Nearly 2000 Laid Off Employees File Arbitration Claims
...Twitter’s lawyers at the big law firm of Morgan Lewis are flipping out about it. They’re asking the arbitrators if they can combine the discovery process so they don’t have to go through 1,986 separate discovery efforts.posted by JoeZydeco at 7:32 AM on June 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
Hope the judge denies that. Make them pay for precipitating 1986 separate cases. That's how the system is supposed to discourage such behavior.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:55 AM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:55 AM on June 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
Nota bene: When folks suggest converting unused office space to housing, a la similar mall or office space conversions that have happened in the past, they are proposing something that involves renovating and subdividing the space into private units, not having giant dormitories.
posted by eviemath at 8:29 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 8:29 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
Portland OR kept its SROs into the oughts? Teens? Now? So anyway I had friends who lived in them and they were VERY CLEAR that a w.c. and sink in each room were a safety requirement. Too easy for harassers to hang out at a shared bathroom waiting for someone sleepy or sick or drunk and alone.
And once you have plumbing a hot plate and dorm fridge save you a lot on food.
posted by clew at 10:04 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
And once you have plumbing a hot plate and dorm fridge save you a lot on food.
posted by clew at 10:04 AM on June 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
My company has become so "remote/hybrid" that we've shed 3 of our 5 central complex buildings. Can't imagine the commercial real estate holders are loving it.
Thinking about SROs and affordable housing - it really wasn't all that long ago that there were still a bunch of SROs and boarding houses and the like to serve someone's basic needs. Did that all get killed by the post WWII "American Dream" boom?
There's a part of me that wouldn't mind going back to the office, periodically, but my round trip commute is 3 hours. Great for audiobooks, bad for sanity.
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:29 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Thinking about SROs and affordable housing - it really wasn't all that long ago that there were still a bunch of SROs and boarding houses and the like to serve someone's basic needs. Did that all get killed by the post WWII "American Dream" boom?
There's a part of me that wouldn't mind going back to the office, periodically, but my round trip commute is 3 hours. Great for audiobooks, bad for sanity.
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:29 AM on June 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
drew, the link I shared above contends that SROs etc. were killed by a combination of growth and NIMBYism:
...in addition to reducing housing crowding through economic growth, the United States has also waged a multi-faceted war against the legality of small dwellings, with boarding houses and single-room occupancy (SRO) hotels driven out by zoning codes. But rather than improve life for those who would have previously lived in these accommodations, the move has largely shifted people into homeless shelters or sleeping on the street. As long as the unhoused are in shelters, they are largely out of sight out of mind as far as the electorate is concerned. But a mix of objective scarcity of shelter space and rising drug addiction has helped increase the number of visibly homeless people sleeping rough in American urban centers.posted by daveliepmann at 10:56 AM on June 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
...
It’s worth underscoring that the problem here is fundamentally deliberate. If you read the American Planning Association’s 1957 report on rooming houses, they are quite clear that the minimum quality standards are largely pretextual, writing that “besides protecting the roomers, enforcement of these codes can do a great deal to assure that rooming houses do not harm districts in which they are properly located.”
drew, the link I shared above contends that SROs etc. were killed by a combination of growth and NIMBYism:
The other problem is cities zone a huge amount of land for office space and nobody in the city really cares that much if it remains empty. Contrast that to apartments where there are consulting firms whose sole purpose is to analyze if cities (commissioned by city) have the appropriate number of apartments to maximize rents. The level of homelessness in the US is a policy choice. The price of houses is a policy choice that cities are actively making.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:14 AM on June 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
The other problem is cities zone a huge amount of land for office space and nobody in the city really cares that much if it remains empty. Contrast that to apartments where there are consulting firms whose sole purpose is to analyze if cities (commissioned by city) have the appropriate number of apartments to maximize rents. The level of homelessness in the US is a policy choice. The price of houses is a policy choice that cities are actively making.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:14 AM on June 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Never underestimate the power of NIMBYism (and attendant biases/fears of "the urban poor")!
Just the other day the city announced a new "below market" rate apartment building that will be built along the freeway, next to a subway station, on a currently empty parking lot. The amount of howling about the increased traffic, or why are there only 9 parking spots required or my favorite "they're destroying the character of the city!" - all while also complaining how expensive the city is.
Again, this is a building being built on an unused, empty lot next to a subway station and the freeway in a decidedly non-residential neighborhood. People would rather have weeds growing than something possibly useful.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:22 AM on June 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
Just the other day the city announced a new "below market" rate apartment building that will be built along the freeway, next to a subway station, on a currently empty parking lot. The amount of howling about the increased traffic, or why are there only 9 parking spots required or my favorite "they're destroying the character of the city!" - all while also complaining how expensive the city is.
Again, this is a building being built on an unused, empty lot next to a subway station and the freeway in a decidedly non-residential neighborhood. People would rather have weeds growing than something possibly useful.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:22 AM on June 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
Nobody really cares about the vacancy rates of commercial property, because very few voters have much exposure to the commercial real estate market such that it's going to personally affect them if vacancy rates go up by a few percent.
On the other hand, there are many voters who are very, very exposed—as in, there's a massive chunk of their lifetime's income, potentially their entire retirement nest egg—in residential real estate. Those people are obviously not going to support anything that diminishes the value of that investment.
And there's not really any way that you can build your way out of a housing shortage without diminishing the value of existing housing stock. I mean, that's basically the whole point. You build more housing, thus increasing supply against (what is hoped is a largely constant) demand, prices go down, housing is more affordable.
The reason we see so much weird thrashing about by municipalities, and lots of weird tinkering-around-the-edges but not really doing a lot of mass building or rezoning, is that they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want "affordability", but also to keep housing values high. This is difficult, to put it lightly.
What seems to be happening in my area is that there's essentially a two-tiered system being created. There's "affordable" housing being built, but it's all high-density apartments. This is supposed to eventually drive down the price of 1 and 2 bedroom flats (sold as condos), and more importantly rents at the entry level of the housing market. Simultaneously, there has been no movement in rezoning single-family house neighborhoods, and I doubt there will be: the people in those neighborhoods vote reliably, and they do not want SFH to MFH conversions ("rooming houses") for a variety of reasons, some of them more legitimate than others. (The proliferation of vehicles and lack of parking in areas which aren't served by public transit is not imaginary, IMO, and vehicles parked on lawns or lawns getting paved over as parking is a dead giveaway of houses being used as multifamily dwellings under the current rules.) But the net result is going to be a huge gap between flats in apartment-style buildings, and single family homes, with the latter remaining essentially supply-controlled in order to ensure the values don't drop at least as long as the current crop of owners is alive.
Unfortunately, anyone who paid market rates in the last few years for a small 1- or 2-bedroom condo in a larger building is going to get kinda screwed by this plan, but I guess there aren't enough of them to make up a voting bloc, so they're the ones whose ox gets gored.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:21 AM on June 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, there are many voters who are very, very exposed—as in, there's a massive chunk of their lifetime's income, potentially their entire retirement nest egg—in residential real estate. Those people are obviously not going to support anything that diminishes the value of that investment.
And there's not really any way that you can build your way out of a housing shortage without diminishing the value of existing housing stock. I mean, that's basically the whole point. You build more housing, thus increasing supply against (what is hoped is a largely constant) demand, prices go down, housing is more affordable.
The reason we see so much weird thrashing about by municipalities, and lots of weird tinkering-around-the-edges but not really doing a lot of mass building or rezoning, is that they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want "affordability", but also to keep housing values high. This is difficult, to put it lightly.
What seems to be happening in my area is that there's essentially a two-tiered system being created. There's "affordable" housing being built, but it's all high-density apartments. This is supposed to eventually drive down the price of 1 and 2 bedroom flats (sold as condos), and more importantly rents at the entry level of the housing market. Simultaneously, there has been no movement in rezoning single-family house neighborhoods, and I doubt there will be: the people in those neighborhoods vote reliably, and they do not want SFH to MFH conversions ("rooming houses") for a variety of reasons, some of them more legitimate than others. (The proliferation of vehicles and lack of parking in areas which aren't served by public transit is not imaginary, IMO, and vehicles parked on lawns or lawns getting paved over as parking is a dead giveaway of houses being used as multifamily dwellings under the current rules.) But the net result is going to be a huge gap between flats in apartment-style buildings, and single family homes, with the latter remaining essentially supply-controlled in order to ensure the values don't drop at least as long as the current crop of owners is alive.
Unfortunately, anyone who paid market rates in the last few years for a small 1- or 2-bedroom condo in a larger building is going to get kinda screwed by this plan, but I guess there aren't enough of them to make up a voting bloc, so they're the ones whose ox gets gored.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:21 AM on June 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by emjaybee at 10:06 AM on June 18, 2023 [17 favorites]