The Most Hated Man in Hollywood
July 10, 2023 8:34 PM Subscribe
The reviews are in on you sir, and they are not good. On Monday, GQ published a story from freelance film critic Jason Bailey summarizing Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav's rapid and shameful ascent from anonymous executive to widely loathed cultural villain. Bailey's key observation is that Zaslav seems neither to care about nor especially like movies, which makes his leadership of such a powerful company a tragic outcome for everyone who does.
Within hours of the article's publication, readers observed that the piece had been heavily edited and its sharpness sanded down. Shortly after the edited version of Bailey's story went live, GQ deleted the entire blog from its website.
People have opinions on what happened, and opinions on how it happened, and opinions on why it happened and from earlier... opinions on why it's a problem.
People have opinions on what happened, and opinions on how it happened, and opinions on why it happened and from earlier... opinions on why it's a problem.
The king and the shirt is the dude is a philistine, a penny pincher and a cultural vandal and pretty much a sentient MAGA hat, but will blow money on his own dumb projects he has enough egotistical aspirations to being a mogul that he can be bullied by Steven Spielberg, Martin Scorsese, and Paul Thomas Anderson into not completely destroying TCM, at least for now.
posted by Artw at 8:53 PM on July 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:53 PM on July 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
I read the LA Times coverage, there Hollywood stuff being pretty solid. What I got from that--and I'm eager to be corrected if there's a lot more, is:
1) Zaslav is a crappy CEO coming in for a lot of criticism.
2) Bailey wrote a critical piece but did not ask the Warners' or Zaslav for a response.
3) Warners/Zaslav used (2) to complain extra hard about the piece, and GQ caved by softening it
4) Bailey asked for his byline to be removed, at which point GQ killed the whole thing (officially since it doesn't publish w/out bylines)
I view this more as a GQ scandal than a Zaslav scandal. Executives have every right to complain about stuff, it's the magazines that need to stand by their writers. Bailey should have reached out for a pro-forma "declined to comment" statement but that's a courtesy, not a rule: GQ could have asked for that ahead of publication if they wanted it.
posted by mark k at 8:58 PM on July 10, 2023 [26 favorites]
1) Zaslav is a crappy CEO coming in for a lot of criticism.
2) Bailey wrote a critical piece but did not ask the Warners' or Zaslav for a response.
3) Warners/Zaslav used (2) to complain extra hard about the piece, and GQ caved by softening it
4) Bailey asked for his byline to be removed, at which point GQ killed the whole thing (officially since it doesn't publish w/out bylines)
I view this more as a GQ scandal than a Zaslav scandal. Executives have every right to complain about stuff, it's the magazines that need to stand by their writers. Bailey should have reached out for a pro-forma "declined to comment" statement but that's a courtesy, not a rule: GQ could have asked for that ahead of publication if they wanted it.
posted by mark k at 8:58 PM on July 10, 2023 [26 favorites]
Dang! I had heard about the kerfuffle, and now I’ve finally read the original piece and… that’s it? The article says a few mean things but it’s hardly some sort of exposé; it’s some catty opinions and re-reportage, hardly a knife through the heart. If it hadn’t been altered and then spiked, everyone would have forgotten it by now. Real Streisand effect stuff.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:33 PM on July 10, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:33 PM on July 10, 2023 [10 favorites]
So he’s the Bobby Kotick of Film? Or is that position already filled?
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:44 PM on July 10, 2023
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:44 PM on July 10, 2023
Bailey's key observation is that Zaslav seems neither to care about nor especially like movies,
Good job he's the CEO and not like a producer of director, then. His job is to care about business, he isn't making films.
The piece on question reads like an enthusiast wringing their hands that the current executive team aren't (paying lip service to being) focused on the hardcore enthusiast over everyone and everything else.
posted by Dysk at 10:04 PM on July 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Good job he's the CEO and not like a producer of director, then. His job is to care about business, he isn't making films.
The piece on question reads like an enthusiast wringing their hands that the current executive team aren't (paying lip service to being) focused on the hardcore enthusiast over everyone and everything else.
posted by Dysk at 10:04 PM on July 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
>Good job he's the CEO and not like a producer of director, then. His job is to care about business, he isn't making films.
What a horrible myopic view that leads to exactly the kind of crap we get right now where companies refuse to release things they have made, in order to avoid paying those involved, as well as steal money from taxpayers to make their books look a little nicer for the next quarter. A CEO isn't obligated to sociopathically pursue profit at expense of all else, a company doesn't need to ruthlessly seek black through any trick they can imagine.
A CEO should care about what their company does and makes or provides (and if it doesn't, you have to wonder what they're leeching from, how, why, and more importantly how to stop it).
Not to mention, he isn't doing very well at caring about the business, and the business itself is literally really gnarly books-balancing scheme by another company's shitty business decision-making and garbage CEOs. It's a company founded on debt other companies didn't want to pay for.
posted by GoblinHoney at 10:13 PM on July 10, 2023 [74 favorites]
What a horrible myopic view that leads to exactly the kind of crap we get right now where companies refuse to release things they have made, in order to avoid paying those involved, as well as steal money from taxpayers to make their books look a little nicer for the next quarter. A CEO isn't obligated to sociopathically pursue profit at expense of all else, a company doesn't need to ruthlessly seek black through any trick they can imagine.
A CEO should care about what their company does and makes or provides (and if it doesn't, you have to wonder what they're leeching from, how, why, and more importantly how to stop it).
Not to mention, he isn't doing very well at caring about the business, and the business itself is literally really gnarly books-balancing scheme by another company's shitty business decision-making and garbage CEOs. It's a company founded on debt other companies didn't want to pay for.
posted by GoblinHoney at 10:13 PM on July 10, 2023 [74 favorites]
A CEO should care about what their company does and makes or provides
Most of the complaints read to me like the issue is that he doesn't care above the WB section of the company above the Discovery half. Like the issue is his opinion of film as if that was the only meaningful thing the company does. If he was a film buff but sneeringly didn't give a crap about reality TV, we wouldn't see remotely these same articles. It's the rockism of moving picture media.
Not to mention, he isn't doing very well at caring about the business
Which would be a much more sensible and valid criticism, to my ears. But that's not what the GQ article in question spends its time on.
posted by Dysk at 10:26 PM on July 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Most of the complaints read to me like the issue is that he doesn't care above the WB section of the company above the Discovery half. Like the issue is his opinion of film as if that was the only meaningful thing the company does. If he was a film buff but sneeringly didn't give a crap about reality TV, we wouldn't see remotely these same articles. It's the rockism of moving picture media.
Not to mention, he isn't doing very well at caring about the business
Which would be a much more sensible and valid criticism, to my ears. But that's not what the GQ article in question spends its time on.
posted by Dysk at 10:26 PM on July 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
to each their pablum.
posted by ducky l'orange at 10:30 PM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ducky l'orange at 10:30 PM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Donald Trump and Elon Musk should have taught us not to assume that because someone is an asshole they are smart and good at business, but apparently not.
posted by Artw at 10:35 PM on July 10, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:35 PM on July 10, 2023 [21 favorites]
Most of the complaints read to me like the issue is that he doesn't care above the WB section of the company above the Discovery half. Like the issue is his opinion of film as if that was the only meaningful thing the company does. If he was a film buff but sneeringly didn't give a crap about reality TV, we wouldn't see remotely these same articles. It's the rockism of moving picture media.
Sure, so make the case that Zaslav is a great steward of reality TV. He's helmed multiple reality-only TV networks for almost two decades; in that time only one show made by his networks has won an Emmy in any of the three reality/documentary categories -- Deadliest Catch, which was already there when he joined the network. Even nominations; mostly for pre-Zaslav shows like Mythbusters and Dirty Jobs. In recent years, once Discover took over enough companies to have 19 (!) different reality TV networks, they finally got nominations for spinoffs of existing pre-Zaslav home reno shows and a cooking show with Amy Schumer.
It's a track record entirely consistent with his public statements that he wasn't running a "cable (television) company, but a content company" with the goal of making "lean back, comfort viewing", and entirely consistent with the goal of producing the cheapest shit possible to provide a the minimum acceptable separation between ads for fabric softener and snack foods for people to have on while they fold the laundry.
posted by Superilla at 11:20 PM on July 10, 2023 [35 favorites]
Sure, so make the case that Zaslav is a great steward of reality TV. He's helmed multiple reality-only TV networks for almost two decades; in that time only one show made by his networks has won an Emmy in any of the three reality/documentary categories -- Deadliest Catch, which was already there when he joined the network. Even nominations; mostly for pre-Zaslav shows like Mythbusters and Dirty Jobs. In recent years, once Discover took over enough companies to have 19 (!) different reality TV networks, they finally got nominations for spinoffs of existing pre-Zaslav home reno shows and a cooking show with Amy Schumer.
It's a track record entirely consistent with his public statements that he wasn't running a "cable (television) company, but a content company" with the goal of making "lean back, comfort viewing", and entirely consistent with the goal of producing the cheapest shit possible to provide a the minimum acceptable separation between ads for fabric softener and snack foods for people to have on while they fold the laundry.
posted by Superilla at 11:20 PM on July 10, 2023 [35 favorites]
Sure, so make the case that Zaslav is a great steward of reality TV.
I'm not saying he is, though? I'm saying the logic of the argument in the article is bad. I'm not commenting on whether their conclusions happen to be correct anyway.
posted by Dysk at 11:35 PM on July 10, 2023
I'm not saying he is, though? I'm saying the logic of the argument in the article is bad. I'm not commenting on whether their conclusions happen to be correct anyway.
posted by Dysk at 11:35 PM on July 10, 2023
I'm saying the logic of the argument in the article is bad.
And what people are pointing out is that you're missing the point of the article, which is that he's applying the abusive culture of reality TV production to other media branches, and demonstrating that he's a piss poor steward of the company he helms.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:43 AM on July 11, 2023 [29 favorites]
And what people are pointing out is that you're missing the point of the article, which is that he's applying the abusive culture of reality TV production to other media branches, and demonstrating that he's a piss poor steward of the company he helms.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:43 AM on July 11, 2023 [29 favorites]
It's the rockism of moving picture media.
Reality TV has been around for a long while now, and my impression remains that it’s still kind of considered tawdry trash - popular trash, but generally bad. There’s no equivalent of Serial, even as documentaries are an obviously established and beloved film genre, and even as the writers guild tries to fold in reality TV writers as well. (I thought that was also an issue during the last writers’ strike?) it definitely seems like there’s some sort of rockiest, pro-Reality TV revision due at some point -though you are gonna have to count me out when it comes- but it definitely feels like this merger has been greeted by the loudest howls from HBO fans. Discovery fans don’t seem to have beef.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:52 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Reality TV has been around for a long while now, and my impression remains that it’s still kind of considered tawdry trash - popular trash, but generally bad. There’s no equivalent of Serial, even as documentaries are an obviously established and beloved film genre, and even as the writers guild tries to fold in reality TV writers as well. (I thought that was also an issue during the last writers’ strike?) it definitely seems like there’s some sort of rockiest, pro-Reality TV revision due at some point -though you are gonna have to count me out when it comes- but it definitely feels like this merger has been greeted by the loudest howls from HBO fans. Discovery fans don’t seem to have beef.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:52 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
The piece on question reads like an enthusiast wringing their hands that the current executive team aren't (paying lip service to being) focused on the hardcore enthusiast over everyone and everything else.
That would be true if the kinds of shows he promoted and liked were earning great ratings, but they perform terribly. Discovery now averages under a million people nightly. In contrast, The Last of Us averaged 32 million viewers.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:27 AM on July 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
That would be true if the kinds of shows he promoted and liked were earning great ratings, but they perform terribly. Discovery now averages under a million people nightly. In contrast, The Last of Us averaged 32 million viewers.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:27 AM on July 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
From a comment that I made last year: Warner Bros. Discovery Lost $20 Billion in Market Cap Trying to Cut $3 Billion in Costs
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:40 AM on July 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:40 AM on July 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
"You never know what you're in for when you get a brand new boss. ... So I thought I would drop by the General Electric Building in midtown Manhattan and kind of, you know, get things off on the right foot."
posted by Dean358 at 6:39 AM on July 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Dean358 at 6:39 AM on July 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
Good job he's the CEO and not like a producer of director, then. His job is to care about business, he isn't making films.
Aside from what GoblinHoney said, this is a shockingly ahistorical view of the American film industry, which was started and run by people that fucking loved movies. In fact, studios being run by hedge fund numbercrunchers instead of film lovers is one of the big reasons why Hollywood is a shell of its former self, running on the fumes of past glories while greenlighting Superhero Movie 1643 because it is projected to have a profit margin of 27%.
posted by rhymedirective at 7:02 AM on July 11, 2023 [22 favorites]
Aside from what GoblinHoney said, this is a shockingly ahistorical view of the American film industry, which was started and run by people that fucking loved movies. In fact, studios being run by hedge fund numbercrunchers instead of film lovers is one of the big reasons why Hollywood is a shell of its former self, running on the fumes of past glories while greenlighting Superhero Movie 1643 because it is projected to have a profit margin of 27%.
posted by rhymedirective at 7:02 AM on July 11, 2023 [22 favorites]
The LATimes coverage of the film industry hasn’t been good for years. Valdez isn’t taken seriously by anyone in the business.
The American film industry was started by people who wanted to make money— love of cinema was in 2nd place.
Bailey’s piece was more like an opinion/blog post than reporting— GQ knew that he wasn’t going to be doing any fact checking.
posted by Ideefixe at 7:27 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
The American film industry was started by people who wanted to make money— love of cinema was in 2nd place.
Bailey’s piece was more like an opinion/blog post than reporting— GQ knew that he wasn’t going to be doing any fact checking.
posted by Ideefixe at 7:27 AM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
In contrast, The Last of Us averaged 32 million viewers.
No, not even close. The NFL is the most popular show broadcast regularly by far, and gets 18million viewers. Streaming numbers are notoriously unreliable, but the best guess is that the Last of US averaged about 1.5 to 2 million viewers. Broadcast networks (CBS, NBC) etc still dominate viewership vs streamers. Supposedly Yellowstone is the most popular streaming show and got about 2.7 million viewers per episode, but Paramount+ doesn't even rate a separate category on the streaming chart (they are grouped into 'other'). Netflix is by far the most popular streamer, but its viewing numbers for any individual show don't compare to any network show.
HBO hasn't had an actual popular show probably since Game of Thrones. That's part of their problem - they are making a lot of shows that no-one actually watches.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:56 AM on July 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
No, not even close. The NFL is the most popular show broadcast regularly by far, and gets 18million viewers. Streaming numbers are notoriously unreliable, but the best guess is that the Last of US averaged about 1.5 to 2 million viewers. Broadcast networks (CBS, NBC) etc still dominate viewership vs streamers. Supposedly Yellowstone is the most popular streaming show and got about 2.7 million viewers per episode, but Paramount+ doesn't even rate a separate category on the streaming chart (they are grouped into 'other'). Netflix is by far the most popular streamer, but its viewing numbers for any individual show don't compare to any network show.
HBO hasn't had an actual popular show probably since Game of Thrones. That's part of their problem - they are making a lot of shows that no-one actually watches.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:56 AM on July 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Also, the president of BU abusing free speech arguments to attack the students who booed Zaslav at commencement was revolting. No, Zaslav was not "silenced" (and given he helms a major media corporation, I don't think that he can be meaningfully silenced), and the real reason the president is so upset is because the students were pointing out how he was selling the school's reputation to Zaslav so he could whitewash his own.
Nobody is owed a soapbox, and if you lend someone yours, you are making a statement.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:02 AM on July 11, 2023 [13 favorites]
Nobody is owed a soapbox, and if you lend someone yours, you are making a statement.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:02 AM on July 11, 2023 [13 favorites]
>> Good job he's the CEO and not like a producer of director, then. His job is to care about business, he isn't making films.
> Aside from what GoblinHoney said, this is a shockingly ahistorical view of the American film industry, which was started and run by people that fucking loved movies.
the first people in a given market sector tend, all else being equal, to be enthusiasts. this effect fades as the processes of production get more efficient and as the market sector becomes large.
that said, i'd like to take a "stop, you're both right!" position. on the one hand, it is not necessary for people running a business to know all that much about the line of work itself, except insofar as that knowledge contributes to the exchange value of the product, i.e. the amount of currency you can get through selling it. most of the time when enthusiasts think about movies, they're thinking about the use value, which is the less-quantifiable benefits of actually using the product — in this case, the pleasure or knowledge one gets from watching a movie. the people managing the process of production need to know a little bit about the use value of their product, since although the exchange value rather than the use value is the thing that the executive optimizes for the exchange value itself is underpinned by the use value, since if no one can use it it's not going to have any exchange value, not even the value that comes from people speculating on it.
this ceo, though, seems to be something that can never be fully accounted for by high-level political-economic analysis though: he is such a fuckup that he doesn't understand either use value or exchange value, and keeps making choices that undermine both.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:20 AM on July 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
> Aside from what GoblinHoney said, this is a shockingly ahistorical view of the American film industry, which was started and run by people that fucking loved movies.
the first people in a given market sector tend, all else being equal, to be enthusiasts. this effect fades as the processes of production get more efficient and as the market sector becomes large.
that said, i'd like to take a "stop, you're both right!" position. on the one hand, it is not necessary for people running a business to know all that much about the line of work itself, except insofar as that knowledge contributes to the exchange value of the product, i.e. the amount of currency you can get through selling it. most of the time when enthusiasts think about movies, they're thinking about the use value, which is the less-quantifiable benefits of actually using the product — in this case, the pleasure or knowledge one gets from watching a movie. the people managing the process of production need to know a little bit about the use value of their product, since although the exchange value rather than the use value is the thing that the executive optimizes for the exchange value itself is underpinned by the use value, since if no one can use it it's not going to have any exchange value, not even the value that comes from people speculating on it.
this ceo, though, seems to be something that can never be fully accounted for by high-level political-economic analysis though: he is such a fuckup that he doesn't understand either use value or exchange value, and keeps making choices that undermine both.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:20 AM on July 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
The piece on question reads like an enthusiast wringing their hands that the current executive team aren't (paying lip service to being) focused on the hardcore enthusiast over everyone and everything else.
Now you've basically experienced 100% of the "Zaslav is bad" discourse.
Most of the complaints read to me like the issue is that he doesn't care above the WB section of the company above the Discovery half.
Yup. There is a reason the Discovery swallowed the WB portion of the company, and not the other way around. When you look at the links people post here and other places that mention how terrible things are over there recently, keep in mind that Warner Brothers was doing poorly before the merger, and would be doing even worse now.
but the best guess is that the Last of US averaged about 1.5 to 2 million viewers
Which it put it at 92nd at in viewers for the 2022-2003, or 96 at worst according to our friends at Nielsen.
Highest (and only) show in the top 100 for HBO during that season? House of the Dragon at a whopping 81st place.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 8:56 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Now you've basically experienced 100% of the "Zaslav is bad" discourse.
Most of the complaints read to me like the issue is that he doesn't care above the WB section of the company above the Discovery half.
Yup. There is a reason the Discovery swallowed the WB portion of the company, and not the other way around. When you look at the links people post here and other places that mention how terrible things are over there recently, keep in mind that Warner Brothers was doing poorly before the merger, and would be doing even worse now.
but the best guess is that the Last of US averaged about 1.5 to 2 million viewers
Which it put it at 92nd at in viewers for the 2022-2003, or 96 at worst according to our friends at Nielsen.
Highest (and only) show in the top 100 for HBO during that season? House of the Dragon at a whopping 81st place.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 8:56 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Drew Margaret at SFGate covers the post removal: “David Zaslav kills everything he touches, including GQ”
posted by Going To Maine at 9:45 AM on July 11, 2023
posted by Going To Maine at 9:45 AM on July 11, 2023
On the other hand, it's easy to see that the giant in the watching video space is Youtube now. Mr. Beast gets 100 to 200 Million views per video, often within 24 hours, for a 20 minute video. And then there's Critical Role that get 2-3 Million viewers for more content than a Superbowl (4-5 hours) almost every week. Both of these are just examples---there are many more to choose from.
The most popular Youtubers are killing any streaming or broadcast numbers and many have reliably-high view numbers. I know that not exactly the same as TV viewers, but streaming kind of blurs those lines now anyway.
Anyway, no one I know under 18 watches TV much, but they all watch Youtube or sometimes Twitch or something else for hours every day.
posted by bonehead at 10:01 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
The most popular Youtubers are killing any streaming or broadcast numbers and many have reliably-high view numbers. I know that not exactly the same as TV viewers, but streaming kind of blurs those lines now anyway.
Anyway, no one I know under 18 watches TV much, but they all watch Youtube or sometimes Twitch or something else for hours every day.
posted by bonehead at 10:01 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
David J. Roth (Defector): They Don’t Want Us And We Don’t Need Them
posted by chimpsonfilm at 10:17 AM on July 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by chimpsonfilm at 10:17 AM on July 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
I enjoy streaming things on YouTube, but in some ways it feels like the apotheosis of zazlov/discovery blandification. You like consuming a thing? Have it endlessly, and in endless variation made by a million different “creatives” desperate to be seen. A million monkeys with camcorders, eventually recreating a fractal that’s as good as one. Scorsese movie but spread over more than a lifetime of bland content that you’ll be content to soak up on the way there. Whatever type of content you find comforting, have enough of it to make you vomit and have the flavor become meaningless.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:58 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 11:58 AM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
HBO hasn't had an actual popular show probably since Game of Thrones.
Er, Succession?
posted by oneirodynia at 1:07 PM on July 11, 2023
Er, Succession?
posted by oneirodynia at 1:07 PM on July 11, 2023
Now you've basically experienced 100% of the "Zaslav is bad" discourse.
I would suggest “no you haven’t” and further suggest reading the Defector and Hollywood Reporter links.
Some of you are being a little weird.
posted by Artw at 1:43 PM on July 11, 2023
I would suggest “no you haven’t” and further suggest reading the Defector and Hollywood Reporter links.
Some of you are being a little weird.
posted by Artw at 1:43 PM on July 11, 2023
HBO hasn't had an actual popular show probably since Game of Thrones.
Er, Succession?
Succession premiered 5 years ago and is now off the air.
posted by mmascolino at 1:52 PM on July 11, 2023
Er, Succession?
Succession premiered 5 years ago and is now off the air.
posted by mmascolino at 1:52 PM on July 11, 2023
GoT 2011-2019, Succession 2018-2023. I think this is a bit of a silly nit to pick.
posted by axiom at 1:57 PM on July 11, 2023
posted by axiom at 1:57 PM on July 11, 2023
Anyway, no one I know under 18 watches TV much, but they all watch Youtube or sometimes Twitch or something else for hours every day.
It's not just the kids(TM) either. A friend's octogenarian parents, who have both Netflix and Prime video in addition to a TV package, still spend more time watching "shows" on YouTube than anywhere else, by a wide margin.
posted by some loser at 2:59 PM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's not just the kids(TM) either. A friend's octogenarian parents, who have both Netflix and Prime video in addition to a TV package, still spend more time watching "shows" on YouTube than anywhere else, by a wide margin.
posted by some loser at 2:59 PM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Of course, the metric of success for an HBO or streamed show isn’t viewership, like it is for ad-supported media, but how much it attracts and retains subscribers, so comparisons across those types of networks aren’t particularly useful.
posted by jimw at 8:30 PM on July 11, 2023
posted by jimw at 8:30 PM on July 11, 2023
Of course, the metric of success for an HBO or streamed show isn’t viewership, like it is for ad-supported media, but how much it attracts and retains subscribers, so comparisons across those types of networks aren’t particularly useful.
I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Netflix for example didn't care about accounts 10 years ago when account sharing became a popularized thing, they care about it now that their subscriber addition has hit a wall. Most of the streaming services are pretty weak compared to Netflix (hence all the billions lost and the consolidation) so they are not really comparable. Nor are subscriber numbers particularly valuable, since so many are bundled with things like cell phone plans, and huge numbers of people bundled literally never even login to them.
Viewers may be slightly abstracted in that case, but it still really matters, and is the only thing that matters.
posted by The_Vegetables at 5:15 AM on July 12, 2023
I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Netflix for example didn't care about accounts 10 years ago when account sharing became a popularized thing, they care about it now that their subscriber addition has hit a wall. Most of the streaming services are pretty weak compared to Netflix (hence all the billions lost and the consolidation) so they are not really comparable. Nor are subscriber numbers particularly valuable, since so many are bundled with things like cell phone plans, and huge numbers of people bundled literally never even login to them.
Viewers may be slightly abstracted in that case, but it still really matters, and is the only thing that matters.
posted by The_Vegetables at 5:15 AM on July 12, 2023
How Many More David Zaslav Fumbles Can Warner Bros. Discovery Survive?
posted by Artw at 8:51 PM on July 12, 2023
posted by Artw at 8:51 PM on July 12, 2023
At this point, I don't think there's another medium doing everything but plotted fictional shows better than Youtube. Or better put,. the people who use Youtube to distribute their productions are better than anything the commercial (or non-profit) broadcasters have ever been able to put together.
I'd go so far as to claim that most of the best non-fiction shows in the world are on Youtube right now. This isn't to say Youtube doesn't have severe problems as a model. The necessity of Patreon and murch stores are evidence that Google is free riding on their creative communities. But right now, and for the last decade or so, the best non-dramatic "TV" isn't being done by commercial broadcasters. If Mythbusters were created today, it would be on Youtube where the creators could have free reign. Netflix tried to produce a follow-on and it was dreadful, over-produced and full of invented "storylines" that just killed it.
posted by bonehead at 6:28 AM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'd go so far as to claim that most of the best non-fiction shows in the world are on Youtube right now. This isn't to say Youtube doesn't have severe problems as a model. The necessity of Patreon and murch stores are evidence that Google is free riding on their creative communities. But right now, and for the last decade or so, the best non-dramatic "TV" isn't being done by commercial broadcasters. If Mythbusters were created today, it would be on Youtube where the creators could have free reign. Netflix tried to produce a follow-on and it was dreadful, over-produced and full of invented "storylines" that just killed it.
posted by bonehead at 6:28 AM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Well, there’s Tested, so I guess you could argue Mythbusters essentially IS on YouTube
posted by Artw at 6:41 AM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:41 AM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
IDK if Netflix ever released viewership numbers for White Rabbit, but I wouldn't be surprised if Tested---which is more podcast and vlogging than Mythbusters---gets more views.
posted by bonehead at 8:41 AM on July 13, 2023
posted by bonehead at 8:41 AM on July 13, 2023
Which Media Execs Want to Prevent a Strike?
A group of senior media executives held a conference call on July 10 about bringing in a federal mediator to help the parties reach a deal, according to Variety. The executives on the call reportedly include Warner Bros. Discovery (WB)’s David Zaslav, Netflix (NFLX)’s Ted Sarandos and the Walt Disney (DIS) Company’s Dana Walden and Alan Bergman. In the background of the negotiations, many of the involved individuals, including Zaslav, Walden and Disney’s Bob Iger, are in Sun Valley, Idaho attending the Allen & Company conference, the so-called billionaire summer camp.
Guess that worked out well. Enjoy billionaire summer camp!
posted by Artw at 2:24 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
A group of senior media executives held a conference call on July 10 about bringing in a federal mediator to help the parties reach a deal, according to Variety. The executives on the call reportedly include Warner Bros. Discovery (WB)’s David Zaslav, Netflix (NFLX)’s Ted Sarandos and the Walt Disney (DIS) Company’s Dana Walden and Alan Bergman. In the background of the negotiations, many of the involved individuals, including Zaslav, Walden and Disney’s Bob Iger, are in Sun Valley, Idaho attending the Allen & Company conference, the so-called billionaire summer camp.
Guess that worked out well. Enjoy billionaire summer camp!
posted by Artw at 2:24 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
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With CNN head Chris Licht ousted, other WBD executives turn their attention to his very hands-on overlord, with one source wondering: "Who wants to have to manage him?"
posted by Artw at 8:48 PM on July 10, 2023 [1 favorite]