Welcome to the B16 TEN
August 4, 2023 12:34 PM Subscribe
The Big Ten Conference started as a Midwestern group of colleges. It grew beyond its original number in the 1990s by adding Penn State, then in the 2010s by poaching Nebraska from the Big 12, then Maryland from the ACC and Rutgers from the Big East, then USC and UCLA from the Pac-12. And now it's made its biggest expansion yet in both rainfall and geography, stretching the B1G footprint all the way to the Pacific Northwest with the addition of Oregon and Washington.
As noted a year ago, the move (like most such moves in college athletics) is primarily about money -- the B1G makes $1B per year from football, compared to the Pac-12's disastrous media rights negotiation that may be scuppered as the conference gets picked apart. The move will likely lead to major changes across all of college athletics, and an acceleration toward climate armagedden.
As noted a year ago, the move (like most such moves in college athletics) is primarily about money -- the B1G makes $1B per year from football, compared to the Pac-12's disastrous media rights negotiation that may be scuppered as the conference gets picked apart. The move will likely lead to major changes across all of college athletics, and an acceleration toward climate armagedden.
Excellent post btw.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:48 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:48 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Cal and Stanford possibly joining the Ivy League is the nuttiest angle on this. Cal would, ironically, end up with rich-kid teams because it doesn't have the depth of need-based funding to substitute for athletic scholarships the way the recruiters for the (current) Ivy League teams do and Stanford could.
posted by MattD at 12:50 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by MattD at 12:50 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
As an alum of an original Big 10 school, this just irks me. I know that things will always change, but why are we even keeping conferences at this point? (yes, I know the answer is always "money".) They were supposed to be regional affiliations. Can we just scrap them all and let each division play as they want? Do conferences serve a purpose? Are they needed to create schedules?
It's one thing for football teams, which have unlimited funding, to travel across the country. But what about the wrestling team or the gymnastics? Why are we making it harder for them to play within their conference? Not even taking into account needing to travel across three time zones!
posted by hydra77 at 12:57 PM on August 4, 2023 [17 favorites]
It's one thing for football teams, which have unlimited funding, to travel across the country. But what about the wrestling team or the gymnastics? Why are we making it harder for them to play within their conference? Not even taking into account needing to travel across three time zones!
posted by hydra77 at 12:57 PM on August 4, 2023 [17 favorites]
Yeah, the PAC-12 is toast — burnt toast that no one is going to be willing to spread the jam of a sweet media deal over.
Washington's and Oregon's only short term national prominence hope is to jack up NIL payments enough to attract elite athletes and look for status similar to Notre Dame's as a worthy non-conference opponent while they shop around for a better conference.
posted by jamjam at 1:00 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Washington's and Oregon's only short term national prominence hope is to jack up NIL payments enough to attract elite athletes and look for status similar to Notre Dame's as a worthy non-conference opponent while they shop around for a better conference.
posted by jamjam at 1:00 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Washington's and Oregon's only short term national prominence hope is to jack up NIL payments enough to attract elite athletes and look for status similar to Norte Dame's as a worthy non-conference opponent while they shop around for a better conference.
Well, no, they're in the B1G now and getting stacks of cash for media fees. What other conference would they possibly join?
It's one thing for football teams, which have unlimited funding, to travel across the country. But what about the wrestling team or the gymnastics? Why are we making it harder for them to play within their conference?
That and Pac-12 teams torch just about everybody in non-profit sports. We'll see where Stanford ends up, but they win the Capitol One Cup for women's sports more often than not.
posted by LionIndex at 1:08 PM on August 4, 2023
Well, no, they're in the B1G now and getting stacks of cash for media fees. What other conference would they possibly join?
It's one thing for football teams, which have unlimited funding, to travel across the country. But what about the wrestling team or the gymnastics? Why are we making it harder for them to play within their conference?
That and Pac-12 teams torch just about everybody in non-profit sports. We'll see where Stanford ends up, but they win the Capitol One Cup for women's sports more often than not.
posted by LionIndex at 1:08 PM on August 4, 2023
The ACC (my conference) is primarily a basketball conference with the exception of FSU, Clemson and to some extent VPI.
Sadly, FSU leaving kills my dream ACC which is every team that joined after FSU gone, the basketball tournament in Greensboro every year, and football as an after thought.
Yes this is the ACC as it existed when I was ten, but that's probably a coincidence.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:19 PM on August 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
Sadly, FSU leaving kills my dream ACC which is every team that joined after FSU gone, the basketball tournament in Greensboro every year, and football as an after thought.
Yes this is the ACC as it existed when I was ten, but that's probably a coincidence.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:19 PM on August 4, 2023 [10 favorites]
I'm a SEC alum, and a Midwesterner with vested Big10 feelings, and I do not like it. We'd finally, at last, finally given smaller football schools a chance at a Championship through automatic expanded tourney bids. I have no idea how that is going to work with even more schools squeezed into fewer conferences?
This is all driven by football (read as TV Money), but how does this affect less funded sports like women's track and field? Not well, I'm sure.
I'm hoping for a Pac-12 (8?, 10?) and ACC merger to start the Atlantic-Pacific-Sea-to-Shining-Sea Conference.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:19 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is all driven by football (read as TV Money), but how does this affect less funded sports like women's track and field? Not well, I'm sure.
I'm hoping for a Pac-12 (8?, 10?) and ACC merger to start the Atlantic-Pacific-Sea-to-Shining-Sea Conference.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:19 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Thank you, Etrigan, for including the climate aspect.
posted by doctornemo at 1:21 PM on August 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 1:21 PM on August 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
As an alum of an original Big 10 school, this just irks me.
Hi, me too! We can be friends unless you went to Michigan State or Ohio State.
I'm kidding. Sports rivalries mean nothing to me.
It was so weird to me when Rutgers joined the Big 10, as I had gone there for an MA right after I graduated from Michigan. Later, I did two years of graduate work at Michigan State, which means I've been to three Big 10 schools, not nearly as impressive a percentage as it would have been a few decades ago.
I only learned that Nebraska was part of the Big 10 (or whatever it's called) when a friend suggested I look into a graduate program there.
It's so strange to think of college football conferences spanning the country.
I have many feelings and thoughts about college football, few of them good, but this weird endless expansion of this conference doesn't seem poised to make things better.
posted by Well I never at 1:22 PM on August 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
Hi, me too! We can be friends unless you went to Michigan State or Ohio State.
I'm kidding. Sports rivalries mean nothing to me.
It was so weird to me when Rutgers joined the Big 10, as I had gone there for an MA right after I graduated from Michigan. Later, I did two years of graduate work at Michigan State, which means I've been to three Big 10 schools, not nearly as impressive a percentage as it would have been a few decades ago.
I only learned that Nebraska was part of the Big 10 (or whatever it's called) when a friend suggested I look into a graduate program there.
It's so strange to think of college football conferences spanning the country.
I have many feelings and thoughts about college football, few of them good, but this weird endless expansion of this conference doesn't seem poised to make things better.
posted by Well I never at 1:22 PM on August 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
There's a lot to be said for D3 athletics. (For the non-USAians, almost every US college and university operates under the NCAA. Most big schools that you've heard of are Division I, which means they can award lots of full athletic scholarships. The Division II schools offer mostly partial scholarships, and the Division III schools, mostly small liberal-arts or religious colleges, offer no athletics scholarships at all.)
Unlike at the big schools, the D3 athletes don't live in special dorms, don't eat in special dining halls, and don't have their own majors or team tutors or team airplanes. They're mostly kids who were athletes in high school and want to keep playing, but don't want to dedicate their lives to their sport. If you have a D3 school near you (and they're quite prevalent in the mid-Atlantic and northeast), it's fun to follow the teams. All the leagues are hyper-local and almost always in-state so even the "away" games are an easy drive.
Don't get me wrong, I love watching big-time college athletics, but it's been drowning in money and corruption for decades. In contrast, there's something refreshing about watching the local D3 college kids play soccer on a sunny afternoon against one of their favorite local rivals. You can follow a good player for all four years. That's really the way that spoets should be, I think.
posted by fuzzy.little.sock at 1:24 PM on August 4, 2023 [22 favorites]
Unlike at the big schools, the D3 athletes don't live in special dorms, don't eat in special dining halls, and don't have their own majors or team tutors or team airplanes. They're mostly kids who were athletes in high school and want to keep playing, but don't want to dedicate their lives to their sport. If you have a D3 school near you (and they're quite prevalent in the mid-Atlantic and northeast), it's fun to follow the teams. All the leagues are hyper-local and almost always in-state so even the "away" games are an easy drive.
Don't get me wrong, I love watching big-time college athletics, but it's been drowning in money and corruption for decades. In contrast, there's something refreshing about watching the local D3 college kids play soccer on a sunny afternoon against one of their favorite local rivals. You can follow a good player for all four years. That's really the way that spoets should be, I think.
posted by fuzzy.little.sock at 1:24 PM on August 4, 2023 [22 favorites]
I agree with everyone about the smaller, less-funded sports as well. This has to be driven by football and basketball money, but what about all those sports that don't make money, that aren't possibly stepping stones to a pro career? If colleges are going to have sports, those athletes deserve a fair shake.
posted by Well I never at 1:25 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Well I never at 1:25 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
This has to be driven by football and basketball money
Primarily football, I think. I don't think that west coast basketball teams are too excited about heading to the Midwest for 7 to 10 road games in January or February.
posted by LionIndex at 1:44 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Primarily football, I think. I don't think that west coast basketball teams are too excited about heading to the Midwest for 7 to 10 road games in January or February.
posted by LionIndex at 1:44 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Good opinion piece in the Athletic about the hypocrisy of conference rapid realignment for cash while lobbying for limits to payer play.
Sorry it is paywalled, but here's the thesis statement:
Let’s not hear any more about limits to NIL rights. Let’s not hear more about guardrails or regulations. Not when college presidents are unencumbered by any regulations when it comes to chasing dollars. Not when we have the threat of a breakup of a the Pac-12 because of money. Not when we have trustees and the president of Florida State saber-rattling about leaving their conference because they don’t make enough money.
Let’s not hear any more about college athletes, young enough to go to war for their country, not being old enough to participate in a free and open market. The same free market concept that college presidents and commissioners are using to chase more dollars.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:56 PM on August 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
Sorry it is paywalled, but here's the thesis statement:
Let’s not hear any more about limits to NIL rights. Let’s not hear more about guardrails or regulations. Not when college presidents are unencumbered by any regulations when it comes to chasing dollars. Not when we have the threat of a breakup of a the Pac-12 because of money. Not when we have trustees and the president of Florida State saber-rattling about leaving their conference because they don’t make enough money.
Let’s not hear any more about college athletes, young enough to go to war for their country, not being old enough to participate in a free and open market. The same free market concept that college presidents and commissioners are using to chase more dollars.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:56 PM on August 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
archive.today link of The Athletic story.
posted by Etrigan at 2:02 PM on August 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 2:02 PM on August 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
From that linked post about the climate change angle:
What all this illustrates is that powerful institutions in American life are not even pretending to make even the most minimal changes that are demanded by any serious response to the climate crisis. Indeed, they are doing quite the opposite: the presidents and governing boards of these universities are voting to create collegiate sports alignments that will require hundreds of teams from dozens of sports — not just football — to collectively fly from one end of the country to the other hundreds if not thousands of times per year to compete against each other.
This is simply insane from a climate change amelioration standpoint, but this illustrates how a bunch of institutions that love to talk a big game about how they’re responding to the climate crisis are in fact completely uninterested in any kind of defensible response, if such a response is going to interfere in any way with revenue maximization in even the very short term.
posted by doctornemo at 2:04 PM on August 4, 2023 [15 favorites]
What all this illustrates is that powerful institutions in American life are not even pretending to make even the most minimal changes that are demanded by any serious response to the climate crisis. Indeed, they are doing quite the opposite: the presidents and governing boards of these universities are voting to create collegiate sports alignments that will require hundreds of teams from dozens of sports — not just football — to collectively fly from one end of the country to the other hundreds if not thousands of times per year to compete against each other.
This is simply insane from a climate change amelioration standpoint, but this illustrates how a bunch of institutions that love to talk a big game about how they’re responding to the climate crisis are in fact completely uninterested in any kind of defensible response, if such a response is going to interfere in any way with revenue maximization in even the very short term.
posted by doctornemo at 2:04 PM on August 4, 2023 [15 favorites]
Washington's and Oregon's only short term national prominence hope is to jack up NIL payments enough to attract elite athletes and look for status similar to Norte Dame's as a worthy non-conference opponent while they shop around for a better conference.
Well, no, they're in the B1G now and getting stacks of cash for media fees. What other conference would they possibly join?
Yeah?
Oregon, Washington on verge of joining Big Ten.
posted by jamjam at 2:11 PM on August 4, 2023
Well, no, they're in the B1G now and getting stacks of cash for media fees. What other conference would they possibly join?
Yeah?
Oregon, Washington on verge of joining Big Ten.
posted by jamjam at 2:11 PM on August 4, 2023
Yeah?
Yeah. That's what the post is about. B1G is another way of writing Big Ten (looks better with the official graphics).
posted by LionIndex at 2:18 PM on August 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yeah. That's what the post is about. B1G is another way of writing Big Ten (looks better with the official graphics).
posted by LionIndex at 2:18 PM on August 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yes, minor sports players are screwed, but they are money losers.
It is a shame for the remaining Pac-12 schools that they are now stuck. Terrible leadership from Larry Scott doomed the Pac-12. And the regional nature of college football is now burnt toast.
Grew up in Kansas City, so was never a big football fan, as the Jayhawks were always pretty terrible, but Basketball was definitely a thing for me. Now it is just a bunch of NIL fueled minor leagues.
As a parent who's youngest child is heading off to college in three days to play a minor sport, I'm glad he didn't get recruited by USC or UCLA. No way am I heading to Ohio to watch him play.
posted by Windopaene at 2:27 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
It is a shame for the remaining Pac-12 schools that they are now stuck. Terrible leadership from Larry Scott doomed the Pac-12. And the regional nature of college football is now burnt toast.
Grew up in Kansas City, so was never a big football fan, as the Jayhawks were always pretty terrible, but Basketball was definitely a thing for me. Now it is just a bunch of NIL fueled minor leagues.
As a parent who's youngest child is heading off to college in three days to play a minor sport, I'm glad he didn't get recruited by USC or UCLA. No way am I heading to Ohio to watch him play.
posted by Windopaene at 2:27 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's about to be the Pac-7.
Spartans v. Trojans should make for lots of Homeric groaners.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:05 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Spartans v. Trojans should make for lots of Homeric groaners.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:05 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Pac-4. Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah have all applied to the Big XII for membership. All that's left is Cal, Stanford, Oregon State and Washington State.
posted by LionIndex at 5:07 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by LionIndex at 5:07 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
YIKES
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:07 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:07 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
In February 1951, George L. Cross, president of the University of Oklahoma, went before a state appropriations committee. After being questioned why the Unversity needed so much money for education, Cross quipped:
“We’re working to develop a university the football team can be proud of.”
Cross didn’t get the money he had asked for, but his joke became famous.
........same as it ever was
posted by lalochezia at 6:29 PM on August 4, 2023 [15 favorites]
Pac-4. Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah have all applied to the Big XII for membership. All that's left is Cal, Stanford, Oregon State and Washington State
I’m on one hand I feel sad about OSU being left in the lurch. On the other hand they also resold the parking space on campus I had already paid for on game days, back when I worked there.
Plus as a Kansas State Alum it feels even worse watching the Big 12 crumble over broadcast rights money.
posted by pwnguin at 7:12 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’m on one hand I feel sad about OSU being left in the lurch. On the other hand they also resold the parking space on campus I had already paid for on game days, back when I worked there.
Plus as a Kansas State Alum it feels even worse watching the Big 12 crumble over broadcast rights money.
posted by pwnguin at 7:12 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm not that much into college sports, but I'm a proud WSU graduate and wonder where my Cougs will end up.
And the climate aspect is horrifying.
posted by lhauser at 7:28 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
And the climate aspect is horrifying.
posted by lhauser at 7:28 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I’m on one hand I feel sad about OSU being left in the lurch.
Beavers are about to dam up what's left of the conference, for as long as it lasts.
I don't see how the Pac-X* recovers from this, without promotion of lower Div teams. (Let's go, Lions.)
*royalties accepted via me-mail
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:36 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Beavers are about to dam up what's left of the conference, for as long as it lasts.
I don't see how the Pac-X* recovers from this, without promotion of lower Div teams. (Let's go, Lions.)
*royalties accepted via me-mail
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:36 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Didn't the Big 12 just poach Colorado, Utah, Arizona and Arizona State from the Pac-4, and get a 2.3 Bn deal from Fox and ESPN? Doesn't feel like that is "crumbling".
My HS girlfriend went to Kansas State, and the Flint Hills are awesome. Manhattan is kind of boring, but...
posted by Windopaene at 8:44 PM on August 4, 2023
My HS girlfriend went to Kansas State, and the Flint Hills are awesome. Manhattan is kind of boring, but...
posted by Windopaene at 8:44 PM on August 4, 2023
Editorial Calling for Congress to step in and stop the madness.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:37 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:37 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
funny how the latter 20th Century I grew up in is steadily mutating away.
Guess we'll always have Microsoft & Apple tho
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:06 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Guess we'll always have Microsoft & Apple tho
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:06 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's an awkward situation that a professional sports league has been married to public institutes of higher education. But as long as that's the case, participation in that sports league should serve more goals than just profit motive: this should not be the business of a state-run university.
Honestly given what we now know about the impact on the players, public institutions should get out of the football business ASAP anyway, which seems like it might solve some of these problems.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 11:18 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Honestly given what we now know about the impact on the players, public institutions should get out of the football business ASAP anyway, which seems like it might solve some of these problems.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 11:18 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
A modest proposal:
Spin off the basketball and football programs from the colleges. Give them the TV rights and revenue. The new entities can continue to use the names and logos in exchange for a licensing fee to the university that is enough to fund the non-revenue sports that remain under school authority . None of the athletes for the divested sports have to take a single class but get a salary, health insurance and workers comp instead. The vast majority of fans won’t notice the difference or even care if they did.
If this were to actually happen, I guarantee every one of the new organizations would be gobbled up by billionaires for their personal vanity projects within a decade.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 11:21 PM on August 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
Spin off the basketball and football programs from the colleges. Give them the TV rights and revenue. The new entities can continue to use the names and logos in exchange for a licensing fee to the university that is enough to fund the non-revenue sports that remain under school authority . None of the athletes for the divested sports have to take a single class but get a salary, health insurance and workers comp instead. The vast majority of fans won’t notice the difference or even care if they did.
If this were to actually happen, I guarantee every one of the new organizations would be gobbled up by billionaires for their personal vanity projects within a decade.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 11:21 PM on August 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
I didn't think that the PAC would die first. They really shoulda merged with the Big 12. Congrats to the Big Ten for actually killing a conference. They really made everything worse for everyone good job.
The real winner of conference alignment has to be Nebraska, who coasted into the Big Ten, promply lost their AAU status and continued to suck at sports, yet now they're raking it in, simply because their football games generate high TV ratings for some damn fool reason that will probably be correlated to boomer life spans.
Plus as a Kansas State Alum it feels even worse watching the Big 12 crumble over broadcast rights money.
Wazzu and Oregon St.'s plight is real "there but for the grace of God" material for every school left in the Big 12.
posted by fleacircus at 5:44 AM on August 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
The real winner of conference alignment has to be Nebraska, who coasted into the Big Ten, promply lost their AAU status and continued to suck at sports, yet now they're raking it in, simply because their football games generate high TV ratings for some damn fool reason that will probably be correlated to boomer life spans.
Plus as a Kansas State Alum it feels even worse watching the Big 12 crumble over broadcast rights money.
Wazzu and Oregon St.'s plight is real "there but for the grace of God" material for every school left in the Big 12.
posted by fleacircus at 5:44 AM on August 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
...to some extent VPI
Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hy!
Techs, Techs, V.P.I!
Sola-Rex, Sola-Rah!
Polytechs - Vir-gin-ia!
posted by snwod at 6:06 AM on August 5, 2023
Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hy!
Techs, Techs, V.P.I!
Sola-Rex, Sola-Rah!
Polytechs - Vir-gin-ia!
posted by snwod at 6:06 AM on August 5, 2023
That PAC-12 tv deal was awful; it paid poorly (it seems) and you never knew where to watch any games.
Congrats to the Big Ten for actually killing a conference. They really made everything worse for everyone good job.
They’ve finally won the Rose Bowl.
posted by notyou at 6:34 AM on August 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
Congrats to the Big Ten for actually killing a conference. They really made everything worse for everyone good job.
They’ve finally won the Rose Bowl.
posted by notyou at 6:34 AM on August 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
Speaking of the Rose Bowl...I wonder what happens to it? I'm an alumnus of an OG Big Ten school and my interest in college sports has faded dramatically over the last few years. I didn't even get the B1G network last basketball season, a first for me.
Also, agree with the statements above about Div III sports. My son went to a Div III school. We went to quite a few basketball games, they were like $5 and one year they made it to the Elite 8 of the Div III basketball tourney. The games were a lot of fun, even if most high schools in Indiana have bigger basketball arenas.
posted by COD at 11:50 AM on August 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, agree with the statements above about Div III sports. My son went to a Div III school. We went to quite a few basketball games, they were like $5 and one year they made it to the Elite 8 of the Div III basketball tourney. The games were a lot of fun, even if most high schools in Indiana have bigger basketball arenas.
posted by COD at 11:50 AM on August 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Write-up at ESPN on possible fallout from the last couple days - mostly prognostication and whether you think anyone at ESPN actually has any idea what's going to happen is a valid concern, but there is some knowledge about what contracts are currently in place that may keep schools in their current conferences unless they win a court fight.
So:
- Notre Dame is the big domino out there still that the Big Ten would very much like to have, but they have a contract with the ACC that if they stop being independent, they'll join the ACC. Apparently there is no reason for them to stop being independent at the moment since they still have their own TV contract.
- Apparently this was the last year that the Rose Bowl had any contractual obligation with the Pac-# or Big Ten, so it was going to be completely beholden to the college playoff system from here on out anyway.
- Remaining Pac-# schools might have to suck up some pride and sacrifice some revenue and merge with the Mountain West somehow. The 4 remaining schools don't have enough leverage to raid the MWC to replenish their lineup, as SDSU just demonstrated.
posted by LionIndex at 12:10 PM on August 5, 2023
So:
- Notre Dame is the big domino out there still that the Big Ten would very much like to have, but they have a contract with the ACC that if they stop being independent, they'll join the ACC. Apparently there is no reason for them to stop being independent at the moment since they still have their own TV contract.
- Apparently this was the last year that the Rose Bowl had any contractual obligation with the Pac-# or Big Ten, so it was going to be completely beholden to the college playoff system from here on out anyway.
- Remaining Pac-# schools might have to suck up some pride and sacrifice some revenue and merge with the Mountain West somehow. The 4 remaining schools don't have enough leverage to raid the MWC to replenish their lineup, as SDSU just demonstrated.
posted by LionIndex at 12:10 PM on August 5, 2023
Speaking of the Rose Bowl...I wonder what happens to it?
The CFP goes to four quarterfinal and two semifinal games as of the 2024-25 season, including the Rose Bowl as a rotating member. The Pac-[X]-vs-Big Ten matchup was gone even if the Pac had survived.
posted by Etrigan at 1:35 PM on August 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
The CFP goes to four quarterfinal and two semifinal games as of the 2024-25 season, including the Rose Bowl as a rotating member. The Pac-[X]-vs-Big Ten matchup was gone even if the Pac had survived.
posted by Etrigan at 1:35 PM on August 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
My parents used to watch Cal football when it was shown on the regular/cable networks. However, they stopped when Pac-12 moved to its own pay-channel because they didn't want to shell out yet more $, and it doesn't sound like they're the only ones.
Looking back, the mindset that the Pac-12 had enough clout for people to pay extra for the privilege of watching their games was probably the beginning of the end.
posted by gtrwolf at 1:43 PM on August 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
Looking back, the mindset that the Pac-12 had enough clout for people to pay extra for the privilege of watching their games was probably the beginning of the end.
posted by gtrwolf at 1:43 PM on August 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
I guarantee every one of the new organizations would be gobbled up by billionaires for their personal vanity projects within a decade.
Or literally on your proposal’s first day. Who else can afford something like USC’s football team?
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 6:01 PM on August 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Or literally on your proposal’s first day. Who else can afford something like USC’s football team?
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 6:01 PM on August 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Anyone else watch Ted Lasso? I feel like the speech that Rebecca gives at the Akufo League meeting should be played at the start of the next meeting for every college conference.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 9:17 PM on August 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 9:17 PM on August 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
And now it's made its biggest expansion yet in both rainfall and geography
Uh huh. Yeah.
Annual inches of rainfall per Big 10 city, according to worldclimate.com (excluding Evanston and University Park, which worldclimate.com doesn't acknowledge as cities):
Lincoln, NE: 28.94
Minneapolis, MN: 30.4
East Lansing, MI: 30.92
Madison, WI: 34.44
Seattle: 37.13
Iowa City, IA: 37.64
West Lafayette, IN: 38.17
Champaign: 39.68
College Park, MD: 44.26
Bloomington, IL: 47.32
New Brunswick, NJ: 48.89
Columbus, OH: 56.11
Oh, wait! Wait, sorry, I meant it rains all the time here, you'd hate it, no need to move here and exacerbate our housing crisis!
posted by gurple at 10:43 PM on August 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
Uh huh. Yeah.
Annual inches of rainfall per Big 10 city, according to worldclimate.com (excluding Evanston and University Park, which worldclimate.com doesn't acknowledge as cities):
Lincoln, NE: 28.94
Minneapolis, MN: 30.4
East Lansing, MI: 30.92
Madison, WI: 34.44
Seattle: 37.13
Iowa City, IA: 37.64
West Lafayette, IN: 38.17
Champaign: 39.68
College Park, MD: 44.26
Bloomington, IL: 47.32
New Brunswick, NJ: 48.89
Columbus, OH: 56.11
Oh, wait! Wait, sorry, I meant it rains all the time here, you'd hate it, no need to move here and exacerbate our housing crisis!
posted by gurple at 10:43 PM on August 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
For those that don’t have Apple TV+, here’s a YT link to the speech I mentioned above.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 5:52 AM on August 6, 2023
posted by Big Al 8000 at 5:52 AM on August 6, 2023
Also a graduate and a legacy of an OG BigTen school, currently living in the south amidst three dozen hyper local rivalries. This sucks.
I'm not even mad that it's all about money. I'm on record wishing there was more money on CFB (to pay players and keep gameday ticket prices reasonable).
I'm mad that the CFB is gravitating to an NFL style league where there's about as much difference between the B1G and the SEC as there is between the AFC and the NFC... and its moving there completely by the inertia of poor leadership and absent vision. And it's such an obvious bad outcome because the CFB is never in a million years be better at being the NFL than the National Football League is.
I have about a dozen ideas of how you could improve revenue and fan engagement and all it requires is 150 programs working together and negotiating together, as opposed to about a dozen competing short sighted accidents of history that are university Athletic Conferences cutting off each others legs. All the leadership the NCAA provides is simply being the reactionary expression of inertia bound presidents and board of regents. For everything else, just do what ESPN will give you 50 bucks for.
posted by midmarch snowman at 11:13 AM on August 6, 2023
I'm not even mad that it's all about money. I'm on record wishing there was more money on CFB (to pay players and keep gameday ticket prices reasonable).
I'm mad that the CFB is gravitating to an NFL style league where there's about as much difference between the B1G and the SEC as there is between the AFC and the NFC... and its moving there completely by the inertia of poor leadership and absent vision. And it's such an obvious bad outcome because the CFB is never in a million years be better at being the NFL than the National Football League is.
I have about a dozen ideas of how you could improve revenue and fan engagement and all it requires is 150 programs working together and negotiating together, as opposed to about a dozen competing short sighted accidents of history that are university Athletic Conferences cutting off each others legs. All the leadership the NCAA provides is simply being the reactionary expression of inertia bound presidents and board of regents. For everything else, just do what ESPN will give you 50 bucks for.
posted by midmarch snowman at 11:13 AM on August 6, 2023
And it's such an obvious bad outcome because the CFB is never in a million years be better at being the NFL than the National Football League is.
The larger number of teams [most of which are not located in NE declining cities], and the stronger rivalries, the larger and generally more 'urban' stadium locations are all ways that college football is better than the NFL.
I think there are more than enough differences between the SEC and B1G for them to be similar but competing leagues. The weather for one thing, the earlier start times, the lack of parity...I could probably keep going.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:53 AM on August 7, 2023
The larger number of teams [most of which are not located in NE declining cities], and the stronger rivalries, the larger and generally more 'urban' stadium locations are all ways that college football is better than the NFL.
I think there are more than enough differences between the SEC and B1G for them to be similar but competing leagues. The weather for one thing, the earlier start times, the lack of parity...I could probably keep going.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:53 AM on August 7, 2023
NFL is like watching robots fight. Part of the fun of college ball is that not everyone is incredibly good, so wild shit happens.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:01 AM on August 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:01 AM on August 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
NFL is like watching robots fight. Part of the fun of college ball is that not everyone is incredibly good, so wild shit happens.
I'd say the problem is the NFL coaching is incredibly conservative rather than the talent at skill parity, but either way I completely agree.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:11 AM on August 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'd say the problem is the NFL coaching is incredibly conservative rather than the talent at skill parity, but either way I completely agree.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:11 AM on August 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh, wait! Wait, sorry, I meant it rains all the time here, you'd hate it, no need to move here and exacerbate our housing crisis!
Meanwhile, Seattle remains a strong contender for least sunshine hours per year. It might not rain all that much in Seattle but its constantly threatening to.
posted by pwnguin at 1:09 PM on August 7, 2023
Meanwhile, Seattle remains a strong contender for least sunshine hours per year. It might not rain all that much in Seattle but its constantly threatening to.
posted by pwnguin at 1:09 PM on August 7, 2023
NFL is like watching robots fight. Part of the fun of college ball is that not everyone is incredibly good, so wild shit happens.
A couple of Pat Mahomes' college games are the most exciting football I’ve ever watched.
posted by jamjam at 1:25 PM on August 7, 2023
A couple of Pat Mahomes' college games are the most exciting football I’ve ever watched.
posted by jamjam at 1:25 PM on August 7, 2023
Meanwhile, Seattle remains a strong contender for least sunshine hours per year. It might not rain all that much in Seattle but its constantly threatening to.
Check Pittsburgh/Columbus/Cleveland in that list - blows right past Seattle by over 100 hours each as the surprise continental US winner for least sunlight. Seattle winter is cloudy but its summer dominates the upper midwest.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:32 PM on August 7, 2023
Check Pittsburgh/Columbus/Cleveland in that list - blows right past Seattle by over 100 hours each as the surprise continental US winner for least sunlight. Seattle winter is cloudy but its summer dominates the upper midwest.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:32 PM on August 7, 2023
The ACC athletic directors and presidents are meeting today and tomorrow, possibly to discuss taking Stanford and Cal. (archive.today link)
posted by Etrigan at 1:55 PM on August 7, 2023
posted by Etrigan at 1:55 PM on August 7, 2023
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With the NIL and the transfer portal, these teams are now essentially professionals. I am not saying that is good or bad, but I do think it needs to be recognized and transparent. There are some college basketball players who have opted to stay in college because they can make more from NIL money than they would either in the NBA as a rookie or overseas. Good on them! What are we left with? I think the same problem before it was legalized. Big donor alumni buying their college sports teams likely at the expense of the non revenue sports which are mostly female teams. Rather than the money go to the athletic department directly, now it is going to the (previously exploited) student athletes.
Not sure what the answer is, but it is going to be hella interesting to watch how it all falls out.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:48 PM on August 4, 2023