The 50 Worst Decisions in TV History
August 18, 2023 6:25 AM Subscribe
The history of television is a vast wasteland of terrible decisions. For every groundbreaking show like Breaking Bad, Star Trek, and All in the Family that got on the air, there are 50 duds like Capitol Critters, Homeboys in Outer Space, and Joanie Loves Chachi. For every brilliant network idea, like NBC allowing Jerry Seinfeld to make a “show about nothing,” there are 100 insane ones, like ABC allowing Jim Belushi to create 182 episodes of According to Jim across eight seasons. (archive,today link)
The top 5:
5: Roseanne Torches Career With Racist Tweet
4: Norm MacDonald is Fired From ‘SNL’ Over (Hilarious) OJ Simpson Jokes
3: Fox Passes on the ‘Sopranos’
2: NBC Turns Donald Trump Into a Television Titan
1: NBC cancels ‘Freaks and Geeks’
The top 5:
5: Roseanne Torches Career With Racist Tweet
4: Norm MacDonald is Fired From ‘SNL’ Over (Hilarious) OJ Simpson Jokes
3: Fox Passes on the ‘Sopranos’
2: NBC Turns Donald Trump Into a Television Titan
1: NBC cancels ‘Freaks and Geeks’
This reminds me that I have been meaning to have an evening of binging The Brady Bunch Hour. Complete with alcohol and snacks of course because how would you get through it otherwise.
posted by JanetLand at 6:47 AM on August 18, 2023
posted by JanetLand at 6:47 AM on August 18, 2023
I thought one of the most interesting blurbs in here was about Breaking Bad, particularly the bit from the exec who passed on it at Fox, not because he didn't think it was good, but because it didn't fit what they needed in their existing line-up:
FX actually did agree to buy it. The deal didn’t last long since it felt it had too many other dark shows about antiheroes. “Look, it was a wonderful script,” FX President John Landgraf said several years later. “If I had known Vince Gilligan was going to be one of the best showrunners in television, and Breaking Bad was going to be literally one of the very best shows in television, I would have picked it up despite the concept. But the truth of the matter is, anybody who does what I do for a living, who’s honest, will tell you that you’re making decisions based on too-little information all the time, and you make good ones and you make bad ones.”
posted by jacquilynne at 6:58 AM on August 18, 2023 [23 favorites]
FX actually did agree to buy it. The deal didn’t last long since it felt it had too many other dark shows about antiheroes. “Look, it was a wonderful script,” FX President John Landgraf said several years later. “If I had known Vince Gilligan was going to be one of the best showrunners in television, and Breaking Bad was going to be literally one of the very best shows in television, I would have picked it up despite the concept. But the truth of the matter is, anybody who does what I do for a living, who’s honest, will tell you that you’re making decisions based on too-little information all the time, and you make good ones and you make bad ones.”
posted by jacquilynne at 6:58 AM on August 18, 2023 [23 favorites]
Firefly isn't even on the list?
posted by mhoye at 7:00 AM on August 18, 2023 [30 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 7:00 AM on August 18, 2023 [30 favorites]
50. ‘Jeopardy’ Allows Mike Richards to Anoint Himself Host
49. ‘America’s Next Top Model’ Asks Contestants to Swap Ethnicities
48. The Geico Cavemen Get Their Own Sitcom
47. Disney Plus Refuses to Let Lizzie McGuire Grow Up
46. ‘Saturday Night Live’ Fires Adam Sandler and Chris Farley
45. HBO Tries to Make a ‘Sex and the City’ For Men
44. Two Words: ‘Cop Rock’
43. The Ungodly Horror That is ‘The Swan’ Makes Women Hate Themselves
42. Fox News Tries to Make Their Own Daily Show
41. Geraldo Takes Viewers Inside Al Capone’s Vault
40. Ren and Stimpy’s Adult Party Cartoon is Allowed to Happen
39. MTV Gives Up and Becomes The ‘Ridiculousness’ Channel
38. ‘Family Matters’ Disappears Judy Winslow
37. ‘Star Trek’ and ‘Gilligan’s Island’ Both Canceled After Just Three Seasons
36. ABC Gives Us Way Too Much ‘Who Wants To Be a Millionaire’
35. ‘Mad About You’ Reboots on Spectrum
34. HBO Max Dumps The ‘HBO’
33. Fox News and CNN Create Streaming Platforms
32. Dan Rather Fails to Vet Supposed George W. Bush Documents
31. ‘Quantum Leap’ Reboots Without Scott Bakula
30. The Academy Awards Asks James Franco to Co-Host
29. ‘Laverne and Shirley’ Dumps Shirley
28. ‘The Simpsons’ Reveals Principal Skinner is an Imposter
27. Joey Tribbiani Gets His Own Show
26. NBC Poaches Megyn Kelly From Fox
25. ‘Glee’ Brings in a New Glee Class
24. ESPN Decides that Rush Limbaugh Would Make a Good Football Commentator
23. CNN Moves Don Lemon to Mornings
22. ‘Arrested Development’ Breaks The Format With Convoluted Netflix Season
21. ‘The State’ Leaves MTV For CBS
20. UPN Greenlights ‘The Secret Diary of Desmond Pfeiffer’
19. ‘Seinfeld’ Kills off Susan in Heartless Fashion
18. ‘Lost’ Blows The Ending
17. ‘The Brady Bunch Variety Hour’ Becomes a Thing
16. The Ropers Quit ‘Three’s Company’ For Ill-Fated Spinoff
15. ‘Star Trek: TNG’ Fires Gates McFadden Before Season Two
14. ‘Westworld’ Confuses The Shit Out of Everyone
13. ‘The Office’ Keeps Going Without Steve Carrell
12. NBC Cancels ‘Baywatch’ After One Season
11. Quibi Burns $1.75 Billion In Eight Months
10. David Caruso Leaves ‘NYPD Blue’ After One Season
9. The Networks Call Florida For George W. Bush in 2000
8. HBO, TNT, Showtime, FX Turn Down ‘Breaking Bad’
7. Fox Gives Chevy Chase a Talk Show
6. NBC Royally Fucks Up The Leno/Conan Situation
5. Roseanne Torches Career With Racist Tweet
4. Norm MacDonald is Fired From ‘SNL’ Over (Hilarious) OJ Simpson Jokes
3. Fox Passes on the ‘Sopranos’
2. NBC Turns Donald Trump Into a Television Titan
1. NBC cancels ‘Freaks and Geeks’
posted by 1970s Antihero at 7:00 AM on August 18, 2023 [27 favorites]
49. ‘America’s Next Top Model’ Asks Contestants to Swap Ethnicities
48. The Geico Cavemen Get Their Own Sitcom
47. Disney Plus Refuses to Let Lizzie McGuire Grow Up
46. ‘Saturday Night Live’ Fires Adam Sandler and Chris Farley
45. HBO Tries to Make a ‘Sex and the City’ For Men
44. Two Words: ‘Cop Rock’
43. The Ungodly Horror That is ‘The Swan’ Makes Women Hate Themselves
42. Fox News Tries to Make Their Own Daily Show
41. Geraldo Takes Viewers Inside Al Capone’s Vault
40. Ren and Stimpy’s Adult Party Cartoon is Allowed to Happen
39. MTV Gives Up and Becomes The ‘Ridiculousness’ Channel
38. ‘Family Matters’ Disappears Judy Winslow
37. ‘Star Trek’ and ‘Gilligan’s Island’ Both Canceled After Just Three Seasons
36. ABC Gives Us Way Too Much ‘Who Wants To Be a Millionaire’
35. ‘Mad About You’ Reboots on Spectrum
34. HBO Max Dumps The ‘HBO’
33. Fox News and CNN Create Streaming Platforms
32. Dan Rather Fails to Vet Supposed George W. Bush Documents
31. ‘Quantum Leap’ Reboots Without Scott Bakula
30. The Academy Awards Asks James Franco to Co-Host
29. ‘Laverne and Shirley’ Dumps Shirley
28. ‘The Simpsons’ Reveals Principal Skinner is an Imposter
27. Joey Tribbiani Gets His Own Show
26. NBC Poaches Megyn Kelly From Fox
25. ‘Glee’ Brings in a New Glee Class
24. ESPN Decides that Rush Limbaugh Would Make a Good Football Commentator
23. CNN Moves Don Lemon to Mornings
22. ‘Arrested Development’ Breaks The Format With Convoluted Netflix Season
21. ‘The State’ Leaves MTV For CBS
20. UPN Greenlights ‘The Secret Diary of Desmond Pfeiffer’
19. ‘Seinfeld’ Kills off Susan in Heartless Fashion
18. ‘Lost’ Blows The Ending
17. ‘The Brady Bunch Variety Hour’ Becomes a Thing
16. The Ropers Quit ‘Three’s Company’ For Ill-Fated Spinoff
15. ‘Star Trek: TNG’ Fires Gates McFadden Before Season Two
14. ‘Westworld’ Confuses The Shit Out of Everyone
13. ‘The Office’ Keeps Going Without Steve Carrell
12. NBC Cancels ‘Baywatch’ After One Season
11. Quibi Burns $1.75 Billion In Eight Months
10. David Caruso Leaves ‘NYPD Blue’ After One Season
9. The Networks Call Florida For George W. Bush in 2000
8. HBO, TNT, Showtime, FX Turn Down ‘Breaking Bad’
7. Fox Gives Chevy Chase a Talk Show
6. NBC Royally Fucks Up The Leno/Conan Situation
5. Roseanne Torches Career With Racist Tweet
4. Norm MacDonald is Fired From ‘SNL’ Over (Hilarious) OJ Simpson Jokes
3. Fox Passes on the ‘Sopranos’
2. NBC Turns Donald Trump Into a Television Titan
1. NBC cancels ‘Freaks and Geeks’
posted by 1970s Antihero at 7:00 AM on August 18, 2023 [27 favorites]
I feel like there's a whole string of shows canceled by Fox that belongs on this list. Firefly, Greg the Bunny, Futurama... (Yes, I know it's come back a few times since).
Some of these were defensible at the time and only look bad in retrospect. I probably would've fired Sandler and Farley too. A Daily Show for Fox makes sense if you're in that bubble and huffing the fumes of the echo chamber.
In an alternate timeline where Star Trek wasn't canceled after three seasons, i wonder if it'd still be a thing. If it had a run like Mannix (1967-1975), The Carol Burnett Show (1967-1978), or Ironside (1967-1975), would we have all the Trek that came after?
posted by jzb at 7:01 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Some of these were defensible at the time and only look bad in retrospect. I probably would've fired Sandler and Farley too. A Daily Show for Fox makes sense if you're in that bubble and huffing the fumes of the echo chamber.
In an alternate timeline where Star Trek wasn't canceled after three seasons, i wonder if it'd still be a thing. If it had a run like Mannix (1967-1975), The Carol Burnett Show (1967-1978), or Ironside (1967-1975), would we have all the Trek that came after?
posted by jzb at 7:01 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Firefly isn't even on the list?
Serenity barely made back its budget (which means it lost money, counting marketing etc.), and no one particularly wants to be in the Joss Whedon business anymore, so all in all, the decision to cancel the 98th most popular show on television seems to have borne out pretty well.
posted by Etrigan at 7:08 AM on August 18, 2023 [47 favorites]
Serenity barely made back its budget (which means it lost money, counting marketing etc.), and no one particularly wants to be in the Joss Whedon business anymore, so all in all, the decision to cancel the 98th most popular show on television seems to have borne out pretty well.
posted by Etrigan at 7:08 AM on August 18, 2023 [47 favorites]
Oh, I'll throw one in: Fish (1977-1978) – deciding to do a Barney Miller spin-off focused on Detective Fish of all characters... No disrespect to Abe Vigoda, but that one is a head-scratcher for me. (A spinoff where Ron Glass / Det. Harris becomes a famous author would've been my choice...)
posted by jzb at 7:09 AM on August 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by jzb at 7:09 AM on August 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
No "Pink Lady and Jeff"? This list is a fail.
posted by briank at 7:12 AM on August 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by briank at 7:12 AM on August 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
Ctrl-F "Game of Thrones"
0 results
Hmmmm...
posted by Alison at 7:13 AM on August 18, 2023 [34 favorites]
0 results
Hmmmm...
posted by Alison at 7:13 AM on August 18, 2023 [34 favorites]
My (not-so-)hot take: Jerry Seinfeld should have remained a little-known, late night, comedy club act, and then we wouldn't have things like Michael Richards getting more screen time, or the Seinfeld show at all.
(There are two shows above all I don't understand the popularity of: Seinfeld and Everybody Loves Raymond. I loathe them even more than I loathe The Big Bang Theory. BBT I have watched some episodes. The other two? I'm gone during the credits.)
posted by mephron at 7:18 AM on August 18, 2023 [22 favorites]
(There are two shows above all I don't understand the popularity of: Seinfeld and Everybody Loves Raymond. I loathe them even more than I loathe The Big Bang Theory. BBT I have watched some episodes. The other two? I'm gone during the credits.)
posted by mephron at 7:18 AM on August 18, 2023 [22 favorites]
> Firefly
Nobody is lying awake at night ruing the day they decided to cancel Firefly - it was a very expensive show to produce and never got anywhere like the ratings to justify the cost. From Fox's point of view the real mistake was greenlighting it in the first place.
Back to the list, some of these are perfectly reasonable choices that didn't work out in hindsight. And some of these "worst decisions" actually did no harm at all. Replacing the doctor on The Next Generation was a poor choice but it did shake up the show and ultimately did no harm. Killing off Susan in Seinfeld like that rubbed some people the wrong way but didn't hurt the ratings.
posted by AndrewStephens at 7:22 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Nobody is lying awake at night ruing the day they decided to cancel Firefly - it was a very expensive show to produce and never got anywhere like the ratings to justify the cost. From Fox's point of view the real mistake was greenlighting it in the first place.
Back to the list, some of these are perfectly reasonable choices that didn't work out in hindsight. And some of these "worst decisions" actually did no harm at all. Replacing the doctor on The Next Generation was a poor choice but it did shake up the show and ultimately did no harm. Killing off Susan in Seinfeld like that rubbed some people the wrong way but didn't hurt the ratings.
posted by AndrewStephens at 7:22 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Before Netflix's raison d'etre became cancelling promising shows after one season, cancelling "Profit", "Terriers" and "Eerie, Indiana" were my go-to "I will die mad about this".
posted by slimepuppy at 7:22 AM on August 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by slimepuppy at 7:22 AM on August 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
I always wondered what 30 Rock would have been like if Rachel Dratch had been one of the leads, as originally planned. A totally different show, I'd imagine, but she is brilliantly funny. I'm glad they found a way to use her to some degree.
17. ‘The Brady Bunch Variety Hour’ Becomes a Thing
I remember watching this as a kid and I attempted to re-visit it on YouTube but it is a "Star Wars Holiday Special" level of bad that can only be explained by all the cocaine consumed in the 1970s.
posted by bondcliff at 7:24 AM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
17. ‘The Brady Bunch Variety Hour’ Becomes a Thing
I remember watching this as a kid and I attempted to re-visit it on YouTube but it is a "Star Wars Holiday Special" level of bad that can only be explained by all the cocaine consumed in the 1970s.
posted by bondcliff at 7:24 AM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
To be fair to Firefly, part of the ratings problem was network sabotage. There was one episode that only aired once, unannounced, at 2am.
posted by Karmakaze at 7:28 AM on August 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by Karmakaze at 7:28 AM on August 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
Mark Burnett INNOCENT--ok, he's not, but it's not his fault the political class of the United States of America was so tapped out that Donald Trump was the best option for however many millions of people.
posted by kingdead at 7:30 AM on August 18, 2023
posted by kingdead at 7:30 AM on August 18, 2023
Profit - now that's a show I was mad they canceled. Is it true that the reason was advertisers at the time weren't ok being associated with a show where the main character was a sociopath?
posted by Easy problem of consciousness at 7:42 AM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Easy problem of consciousness at 7:42 AM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Is it true that the reason was advertisers at the time weren't ok being associated with a show where the main character was a sociopath?
Also, the ratings were low (it was 139 out of 160 in its slot most of the time), the Bible Belt hated it, and advertisers were mad itaccurately showed them as sociopaths.
posted by mephron at 7:54 AM on August 18, 2023
Also, the ratings were low (it was 139 out of 160 in its slot most of the time), the Bible Belt hated it, and advertisers were mad it
posted by mephron at 7:54 AM on August 18, 2023
Profit - now that's a show I was mad they canceled. Is it true that the reason was advertisers at the time weren't ok being associated with a show where the main character was a sociopath?
There's a bunch of speculation on the wikipedia page but none of it sounds super legitimate to me, beyond just that the show didn't find an audience. 1996 was probably just too early for "American Psycho the TV Show".
posted by slimepuppy at 7:56 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
There's a bunch of speculation on the wikipedia page but none of it sounds super legitimate to me, beyond just that the show didn't find an audience. 1996 was probably just too early for "American Psycho the TV Show".
posted by slimepuppy at 7:56 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
To be fair to Firefly, part of the ratings problem was network sabotage. There was one episode that only aired once, unannounced, at 2am.
if I recall they also aired the episodes out of order, too. The network didn't really give it a fair shot.
But the cancelling I really hate was Pushing Up Daisies and Wonderfalls. I don't know if those were smart business decisions but I'm so annoyed that Wonderfalls was one weird season and I'll never know more.
posted by wellifyouinsist at 7:59 AM on August 18, 2023 [31 favorites]
if I recall they also aired the episodes out of order, too. The network didn't really give it a fair shot.
But the cancelling I really hate was Pushing Up Daisies and Wonderfalls. I don't know if those were smart business decisions but I'm so annoyed that Wonderfalls was one weird season and I'll never know more.
posted by wellifyouinsist at 7:59 AM on August 18, 2023 [31 favorites]
Where's "Mockingbird Lane never makes it past the pilot"?
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:10 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:10 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I would add the failure to give NewsRadio a consistent time slot.
posted by conifer at 8:11 AM on August 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by conifer at 8:11 AM on August 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
From the entry on James Franco & Anne Hathaway hosting the Oscars:
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:11 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
“It was like the world’s most uncomfortable blind date,” Oscars writer David Wild told The Ringer, “between the cool rocker-stoner kid and the adorable theater-camp cheerleader.”I mean, to be fair, that's the kind of energy Freaks & Geeks used to make great television. Maybe they should have embraced it swapped Hathaway for Linda Cardellini?
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:11 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
No Sarah Connor Chronicles? The single (2!) best seasons of television ever? Pshaw.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:13 AM on August 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:13 AM on August 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
if I recall they also aired the episodes out of order, too.
They aired the train robbery episode first, because it had action and they wanted to attract viewers, but unfortunately missed a lot of the character establishment and backstory that the pilot had. According to this list, they aired most of the season, then the finale, THEN the pilot, then burned off the three remaining episodes during the following summer.
I don't think that could have happened without intentional sabotage.
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:13 AM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
They aired the train robbery episode first, because it had action and they wanted to attract viewers, but unfortunately missed a lot of the character establishment and backstory that the pilot had. According to this list, they aired most of the season, then the finale, THEN the pilot, then burned off the three remaining episodes during the following summer.
I don't think that could have happened without intentional sabotage.
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:13 AM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
Carnivale should have had 6 seasons. I will die on this dust hill.
posted by mattgriffin at 8:24 AM on August 18, 2023 [27 favorites]
posted by mattgriffin at 8:24 AM on August 18, 2023 [27 favorites]
> 16. The Ropers Quit ‘Three’s Company’ For Ill-Fated Spinoff
Hey, the UK equivalent George and Mildred ran for five season from 1976–1979, and would have continued had Yootha Joyce not passed away.
Will always be mad about Eerie, Indiana, too. Dweebs (1995), though: the very definition of "tested badly".
posted by scruss at 8:26 AM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hey, the UK equivalent George and Mildred ran for five season from 1976–1979, and would have continued had Yootha Joyce not passed away.
Will always be mad about Eerie, Indiana, too. Dweebs (1995), though: the very definition of "tested badly".
posted by scruss at 8:26 AM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Seinfeld killing off Susan was funny and led to some of the best George dilemmas, strongly disagree.
( the secret to Seinfeld is thinking "what if I was a shallow petty person and also constantly shot myself in the foot by following my worst instincts") and that's basically everyone but especially George.
posted by emjaybee at 8:28 AM on August 18, 2023 [27 favorites]
( the secret to Seinfeld is thinking "what if I was a shallow petty person and also constantly shot myself in the foot by following my worst instincts") and that's basically everyone but especially George.
posted by emjaybee at 8:28 AM on August 18, 2023 [27 favorites]
Joey was fine! Even good in places. I watch a lot of sitcoms, so I might be weird. I like a good, broad, sitcom. But come on - Andrea Anders and Jennifer Coolidge are treasures. It wasn't an amazing show, but it was at or even slightly above replacement value. (Sorry, I just feel like it gets more hate than it deserves)
posted by Garm at 8:28 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Garm at 8:28 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
> ‘The Simpsons’ Reveals Principal Skinner is an Imposter
> ‘Seinfeld’ Kills off Susan in Heartless Fashion
Were these bad in the long run? The Simpsons had run its course as an innovative sitcom but has stayed on air for another quarter century and made God knows how much money.
And I’ve always heard the killing off Susan admired as an example of Seinfeld’s absurdist dark humor. If anything, I think it was good for the show and solidified its reputation. Again, the show stayed on for years and thrives in syndication, to the point that it’s been continuously advertised on the sides of city buses since the Clinton administration.
posted by smelendez at 8:33 AM on August 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
> ‘Seinfeld’ Kills off Susan in Heartless Fashion
Were these bad in the long run? The Simpsons had run its course as an innovative sitcom but has stayed on air for another quarter century and made God knows how much money.
And I’ve always heard the killing off Susan admired as an example of Seinfeld’s absurdist dark humor. If anything, I think it was good for the show and solidified its reputation. Again, the show stayed on for years and thrives in syndication, to the point that it’s been continuously advertised on the sides of city buses since the Clinton administration.
posted by smelendez at 8:33 AM on August 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
Seinfeld killing off Susan was funny and led to some of the best George dilemmas, strongly disagree.
Couldn't agree more. Killing off Susan was a shard of black comic genius -- one of the high water marks of the show, or American TV comedy in general. Of course, it was heartless. Seinfeld (the show) had no heart. Or as the article itself puts it:
As Larry David has said many times over the years, the unofficial mantra in the Seinfeld writers room was “no hugging, no learning.” In other words, there was nothing sentimental about the show. The characters never showed any genuine affection toward one another, and they never learned a damn thing. As the series finale argued, they were actually four complete sociopaths who belonged in prison. But this took this a little too far
No, it did not go too far. In fact, it pulled off a trick that many a long running comedy has failed to do. Which is save itself from from losing the edge (the tone) that hooked us in the first place. Comedy is all about surprise. The death of Susan, a good, comparatively decent person who was obviously WAY TOO GOOD for George, or the show for that matter, shouldn't even have been a surprise. But we (the audience) are suckers for sentiment, so we were buying in ... and we got slapped for it.
posted by philip-random at 8:35 AM on August 18, 2023 [24 favorites]
Couldn't agree more. Killing off Susan was a shard of black comic genius -- one of the high water marks of the show, or American TV comedy in general. Of course, it was heartless. Seinfeld (the show) had no heart. Or as the article itself puts it:
As Larry David has said many times over the years, the unofficial mantra in the Seinfeld writers room was “no hugging, no learning.” In other words, there was nothing sentimental about the show. The characters never showed any genuine affection toward one another, and they never learned a damn thing. As the series finale argued, they were actually four complete sociopaths who belonged in prison. But this took this a little too far
No, it did not go too far. In fact, it pulled off a trick that many a long running comedy has failed to do. Which is save itself from from losing the edge (the tone) that hooked us in the first place. Comedy is all about surprise. The death of Susan, a good, comparatively decent person who was obviously WAY TOO GOOD for George, or the show for that matter, shouldn't even have been a surprise. But we (the audience) are suckers for sentiment, so we were buying in ... and we got slapped for it.
posted by philip-random at 8:35 AM on August 18, 2023 [24 favorites]
The Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers thinking that the WGA and SAG-AFTRA would buckle may yet make that list....we'll see how it plays out
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:42 AM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:42 AM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
In an alternate timeline where Star Trek wasn't canceled after three seasons, i wonder if it'd still be a thing. If it had a run like Mannix (1967-1975), The Carol Burnett Show (1967-1978), or Ironside (1967-1975), would we have all the Trek that came after?
Good question, and I think that it hinges on a couple of questions: a) would Trek have continued to have come up with good episodes, especially as print and movie SF of the seventies started looking more at near-future dystopias and less at space opera, and b) would the existence of Trek past a few seasons have been due to a radically different management regime at Paramount, which in our timeline took a full decade to bring back Trek (not counting the animated series)?
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:43 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Good question, and I think that it hinges on a couple of questions: a) would Trek have continued to have come up with good episodes, especially as print and movie SF of the seventies started looking more at near-future dystopias and less at space opera, and b) would the existence of Trek past a few seasons have been due to a radically different management regime at Paramount, which in our timeline took a full decade to bring back Trek (not counting the animated series)?
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:43 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I will not accept this Cop Rock slander.
No, just kidding. I absolutely loved the show when I was 15, but I accept that it was not good and not likely to appeal to anyone but me, the 15-year-old who loved both musical theater and L.A. Law.
In an alternate timeline where Star Trek wasn't canceled after three seasons, i wonder if it'd still be a thing.
It's a good question. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that. You could say the same about Firefly - would it be as much of a cult obsession if it lasted for five (increasingly meh) seasons?
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:50 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
No, just kidding. I absolutely loved the show when I was 15, but I accept that it was not good and not likely to appeal to anyone but me, the 15-year-old who loved both musical theater and L.A. Law.
In an alternate timeline where Star Trek wasn't canceled after three seasons, i wonder if it'd still be a thing.
It's a good question. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that. You could say the same about Firefly - would it be as much of a cult obsession if it lasted for five (increasingly meh) seasons?
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:50 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Unpopular opinion: the Beverly Crusher character is just bad and it was good when she was gone.
posted by cooker girl at 8:52 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 8:52 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
I thought one of the most interesting blurbs in here was about Breaking Bad, particularly the bit from the exec who passed on it at Fox, not because he didn't think it was good, but because it didn't fit what they needed in their existing line-up:
It's funny because Breaking Bad is such an FX-type show that I read your excerpt (before reading the article) and my brain kept insisting "Breaking Bad was an FX show, Breaking Bad was an FX show," until I finally remembered it was on AMC. (Also -- Breaking Bad was only a hit because of Netflix! Give those network exec freaks a break! Brings me no pleasure to report this, etc.)
I am surprised Gilligan's Island was canceled after three seasons. I guess I watched it a lot on Nick at Nite, and most of those shows were smash hits. (On the other hand -- a Google search tells me that those were 30+ episode seasons, for 98 episodes in all, which uh is a lot of TV by today's standards.)
It's a weird list, since it's full of things that worked out pretty well for everyone (big hit shows getting passed on until they found a home, cancellations that led to stars or IP finding much greater success in new projects) or at least make sense: HBO trying to make a "straight guy" version of Sex & the City (arguably succeeding with Entourage), the wildly successful Office continuing to mint money after Carell's departure, or Glee trying to foist a new cast on the audience (given that it's set in a high school glee club and there's a limit to how long one can plausibly take the same twentysomethings high school students).
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:54 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's funny because Breaking Bad is such an FX-type show that I read your excerpt (before reading the article) and my brain kept insisting "Breaking Bad was an FX show, Breaking Bad was an FX show," until I finally remembered it was on AMC. (Also -- Breaking Bad was only a hit because of Netflix! Give those network exec freaks a break! Brings me no pleasure to report this, etc.)
I am surprised Gilligan's Island was canceled after three seasons. I guess I watched it a lot on Nick at Nite, and most of those shows were smash hits. (On the other hand -- a Google search tells me that those were 30+ episode seasons, for 98 episodes in all, which uh is a lot of TV by today's standards.)
It's a weird list, since it's full of things that worked out pretty well for everyone (big hit shows getting passed on until they found a home, cancellations that led to stars or IP finding much greater success in new projects) or at least make sense: HBO trying to make a "straight guy" version of Sex & the City (arguably succeeding with Entourage), the wildly successful Office continuing to mint money after Carell's departure, or Glee trying to foist a new cast on the audience (given that it's set in a high school glee club and there's a limit to how long one can plausibly take the same twentysomethings high school students).
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:54 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
and the more I look at this list, the worse it gets. Two for instances from the top five:
3: Fox Passes on the ‘Sopranos’
I'm having a hard time imagining a reality where Fox taking on Sopranos and jamming it full of commercials, mucking around with focus groups, otherwise messing with it wouldn't have ruined it. That show had to land at a place like HBO that, at the time anyway, valued a singular creative vision, gave it room to breathe and thrive. You might say that Fox passing on Sopranos was one of the best decisions ever made. It paved the way for the so-called Golden Age of Television.
1: NBC cancels ‘Freaks and Geeks’
Sorry, but no, not number one. Not even close. Top thirty maybe. I saw the entirety of Freaks and Geeks and liked it quite a lot and was sorry to see it go. But ... worst thing ever!?!?!
And where's Amanda's By The Sea which wasn't even the only attempt to Americanize Fawlty Towers?
posted by philip-random at 8:55 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
3: Fox Passes on the ‘Sopranos’
I'm having a hard time imagining a reality where Fox taking on Sopranos and jamming it full of commercials, mucking around with focus groups, otherwise messing with it wouldn't have ruined it. That show had to land at a place like HBO that, at the time anyway, valued a singular creative vision, gave it room to breathe and thrive. You might say that Fox passing on Sopranos was one of the best decisions ever made. It paved the way for the so-called Golden Age of Television.
1: NBC cancels ‘Freaks and Geeks’
Sorry, but no, not number one. Not even close. Top thirty maybe. I saw the entirety of Freaks and Geeks and liked it quite a lot and was sorry to see it go. But ... worst thing ever!?!?!
And where's Amanda's By The Sea which wasn't even the only attempt to Americanize Fawlty Towers?
posted by philip-random at 8:55 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
No mention of Manimal? For shame, Rolling Stone.
posted by jquinby at 8:57 AM on August 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by jquinby at 8:57 AM on August 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
Now & Again, probably my favorite network TV series ever, was canceled by CBS's Leslie Moonves not because of ratings or reviews, but as collateral damage in a pissing contest with outside producers.
The show, which was fantastic, is about a character played by John Goodman who is struck by a train, only to have his brain salvaged by a US government program and placed into a genetically engineered, lab-created super-body (the character is played from that point by Eric Close). The rub is: they picked the wrong guy. Because this particular really loves his wife and kid and would do anything to see them again. It ends up being a sci-fi superhero spy conspiracy romcom and I am still mad, decades later, that it ended on a cliffhanger.
That's my personal number one. Forever.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:08 AM on August 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
The show, which was fantastic, is about a character played by John Goodman who is struck by a train, only to have his brain salvaged by a US government program and placed into a genetically engineered, lab-created super-body (the character is played from that point by Eric Close). The rub is: they picked the wrong guy. Because this particular really loves his wife and kid and would do anything to see them again. It ends up being a sci-fi superhero spy conspiracy romcom and I am still mad, decades later, that it ended on a cliffhanger.
That's my personal number one. Forever.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:08 AM on August 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
> philip-random: "But ... worst thing ever!?!?!"
I think this list isn't supposed to be the 50 worst things to have happened to TV shows but rather 50 worst TV network executive decisions. In the case of Freaks and Geeks, I think the idea is that NBC had an absolutely solid show that got only so-so ratings in its first season but would likely have grown a lot in its subsequent seasons. I feel like if Brandon Tartikoff (the guy who kept Cheers and Seinfeld on the air despite initial poor ratings) were in charge at that time, he probably would have renewed them.
posted by mhum at 9:09 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
I think this list isn't supposed to be the 50 worst things to have happened to TV shows but rather 50 worst TV network executive decisions. In the case of Freaks and Geeks, I think the idea is that NBC had an absolutely solid show that got only so-so ratings in its first season but would likely have grown a lot in its subsequent seasons. I feel like if Brandon Tartikoff (the guy who kept Cheers and Seinfeld on the air despite initial poor ratings) were in charge at that time, he probably would have renewed them.
posted by mhum at 9:09 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
i hold that there's about three or four different decisions related to the repeated cancellations and uncancellations of community which could/should be on this list.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:11 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:11 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
And where's Amanda's By The Sea which wasn't even the only attempt to Americanize Fawlty Towers?
One of three*, as I understand it.
*To date.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:11 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
One of three*, as I understand it.
*To date.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:11 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, Game of Thrones should have been on there, but the "bad decision" was "HBO failed to fire the showrunners and hold the stars ruthlessly to the letter of their contracts when they got bored" which is a bit Republican for the Rolling Stone.
The "cancelation" bad decisions are all a bit unfair. Low-rated shows had to be canceled and didn't matter why they were low rated, because the odds that shows would increase in the ratings were extremely low. The broadcast networks had 5-10 hours per week each for dramas and sitcoms, and that's it. The mandate that your 10 pm drama (9 pm for Fox) be strong lead-in to local news was SACRED, the mandate that your sitcoms build audience for your pre-news drama was almost slightly less so. Your entire profit margin was ad sales on Thursdays.
Fox did the right thing to pass on The Sopranos. Their math would have required casting Tony with someone better known and skinnier than Gandolfini.
posted by MattD at 9:12 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
The "cancelation" bad decisions are all a bit unfair. Low-rated shows had to be canceled and didn't matter why they were low rated, because the odds that shows would increase in the ratings were extremely low. The broadcast networks had 5-10 hours per week each for dramas and sitcoms, and that's it. The mandate that your 10 pm drama (9 pm for Fox) be strong lead-in to local news was SACRED, the mandate that your sitcoms build audience for your pre-news drama was almost slightly less so. Your entire profit margin was ad sales on Thursdays.
Fox did the right thing to pass on The Sopranos. Their math would have required casting Tony with someone better known and skinnier than Gandolfini.
posted by MattD at 9:12 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
When the Fairness Doctrine was vetoed by longtime Hollywood/TV star.
posted by MonsieurPEB at 9:15 AM on August 18, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by MonsieurPEB at 9:15 AM on August 18, 2023 [21 favorites]
I thought 'According to Jim' went that long because someone (else) watched it enough. This is a misconception on my part?
posted by Selena777 at 9:17 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 9:17 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Having recently watched the first 5 seasons of ST:TNG, I’m a little surprised it successfully relaunched the franchise. The actors are all between good to great in their roles, but it’s seems pretty clear the writers had no idea what they were doing (I gather Dorn’s notes for Worf were basically “he’s a Klingon. Do… Klingon stuff”). It takes until season 3 before the scripts get reliably non-bad. I guess the fan hunger was just too strong.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:20 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:20 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'll never get over when they cancelled Lottery! That show had at least 7 seasons in it.
posted by rocketman at 9:28 AM on August 18, 2023
posted by rocketman at 9:28 AM on August 18, 2023
> The "cancelation" bad decisions are all a bit unfair. Low-rated shows had to be canceled and didn't matter why they were low rated, because the odds that shows would increase in the ratings were extremely low.
but! there was a pretty gap between when:
fortunately i think we're mostly past the era of that particular style of terrible decisionmaking. like, i recall feeling deep relief when the folks from the cw doubled down on crazy ex-girlfriend despite it being iirc literally the lowest rated show on television in terms of the old ratings system, because (among other things) they realized that just because it got low ratings didn't mean that people weren't watching it.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:28 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
but! there was a pretty gap between when:
- people stopped watching tv on tv quite so much, and
- the folks making the decisions realized that people don't watch tv on tv quite so much these days, and that therefore the connection between nielsen ratings and actual viewership, tenuous as it may have been originally, was now entirely severed.
fortunately i think we're mostly past the era of that particular style of terrible decisionmaking. like, i recall feeling deep relief when the folks from the cw doubled down on crazy ex-girlfriend despite it being iirc literally the lowest rated show on television in terms of the old ratings system, because (among other things) they realized that just because it got low ratings didn't mean that people weren't watching it.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:28 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
I liked FIREFLY as much as anyone, but it's cancelation spared us of the episode mentioned here. Content warning: rape.
posted by brundlefly at 9:32 AM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 9:32 AM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
Just a nitpick, but Caruso leaving NYPD Blue was a decision made by the actor, not the network, right? "Bad decisions made by actors on account of greed/ego" would be an entirely different and interesting list.
posted by Kat Allison at 9:36 AM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Kat Allison at 9:36 AM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Having recently watched the first 5 seasons of ST:TNG, I’m a little surprised it successfully relaunched the franchise.
I don't know how old you are, but I can't express how different (and in many cases, dire) most TV was in the days before "prestige television." If a third of the episodes in a given season were pretty good, that was high quality television.
Also, there was basically no good sci-fi on TV in 1987 (much as I enjoyed Automan.) So TNG was a huge deal at the time.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:39 AM on August 18, 2023 [24 favorites]
I don't know how old you are, but I can't express how different (and in many cases, dire) most TV was in the days before "prestige television." If a third of the episodes in a given season were pretty good, that was high quality television.
Also, there was basically no good sci-fi on TV in 1987 (much as I enjoyed Automan.) So TNG was a huge deal at the time.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:39 AM on August 18, 2023 [24 favorites]
yeah tng's level of quality/non-quality relative to modern television makes sense if you remember that it's a cold war-era show.
an extra advantage of thinking/talking about tng as something made during the cold war is that you get to watch old people make those funny "you have just reminded me of how old and therefore close to death i am" faces.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:42 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
an extra advantage of thinking/talking about tng as something made during the cold war is that you get to watch old people make those funny "you have just reminded me of how old and therefore close to death i am" faces.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:42 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
I don't think that could have happened without intentional sabotage.
Oh man, I have a whole conspiracy theory on Firefly and it goes like this:
When Buffy ended, it was known that Joss Whedon was in talks with the BBC to produce a series focused on Anthony Head's character returning to England and becoming a sort of John-Constantine-esque investigator. It had a working title of "Ripper" and Anthony Head was enthused about it because it would allow him to keep working but remain close to his wife and kids in the UK.
But Rupert Murdoch fiercely hates the BBC, and suddenly Fox greenlit Firefly instead, and so the project came to nothing. And that answers all the questions about why Fox treated Firefly like garbage -- they never intended for it to go anywhere. It was a project purely to waste Whedon's time and energy. All the mis-aired episodes, poor promotion and unceremonious dumping makes sense when you allow for the possibility that it was done out of malice, instead of sufficiently advanced stupidity.
There is a silver lining, though. When the BBC got cheated out of "Ripper" they still wanted a genre show, so they approached their own wunderkind producer Russell T. Davies, who told them the only genre show he would be interested in would be a reboot of Doctor Who. And now you know... the rest of the story.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 9:44 AM on August 18, 2023 [60 favorites]
Oh man, I have a whole conspiracy theory on Firefly and it goes like this:
When Buffy ended, it was known that Joss Whedon was in talks with the BBC to produce a series focused on Anthony Head's character returning to England and becoming a sort of John-Constantine-esque investigator. It had a working title of "Ripper" and Anthony Head was enthused about it because it would allow him to keep working but remain close to his wife and kids in the UK.
But Rupert Murdoch fiercely hates the BBC, and suddenly Fox greenlit Firefly instead, and so the project came to nothing. And that answers all the questions about why Fox treated Firefly like garbage -- they never intended for it to go anywhere. It was a project purely to waste Whedon's time and energy. All the mis-aired episodes, poor promotion and unceremonious dumping makes sense when you allow for the possibility that it was done out of malice, instead of sufficiently advanced stupidity.
There is a silver lining, though. When the BBC got cheated out of "Ripper" they still wanted a genre show, so they approached their own wunderkind producer Russell T. Davies, who told them the only genre show he would be interested in would be a reboot of Doctor Who. And now you know... the rest of the story.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 9:44 AM on August 18, 2023 [60 favorites]
Also, there was basically no good sci-fi on TV in 1987 (much as I enjoyed Automan.) So TNG was a huge deal at the time.
Aye.
There was a brief moment in the mid-80s - about the time Amazing Stories and the Twilight Zone reboot happened, which included odd stuff like Otherworld, Whiz Kids, and Beauty and the Beast. This was probably about the time a lot of my cohort was discovering Dr. Who, The Prisoner and Tripods on late-night PBS, too.
posted by jquinby at 9:45 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
Aye.
There was a brief moment in the mid-80s - about the time Amazing Stories and the Twilight Zone reboot happened, which included odd stuff like Otherworld, Whiz Kids, and Beauty and the Beast. This was probably about the time a lot of my cohort was discovering Dr. Who, The Prisoner and Tripods on late-night PBS, too.
posted by jquinby at 9:45 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
The mistake was greenlighting Firefly to begin with.
Seinfeld killing off Susan was funny and led to some of the best George dilemmas, strongly disagree.
I can understand some audience discomfort, but whoo boy that loooooong drive out to the nonexistent summer place with Susan's parents was one of the great moments of TV of the whole decade.
posted by praemunire at 9:50 AM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
Seinfeld killing off Susan was funny and led to some of the best George dilemmas, strongly disagree.
I can understand some audience discomfort, but whoo boy that loooooong drive out to the nonexistent summer place with Susan's parents was one of the great moments of TV of the whole decade.
posted by praemunire at 9:50 AM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
The Andy Griffith Show losing Don Knotts. Still makes me weepy.
I liked Seinfeld quite a bit when it originally aired. I got kind of tired of it by the end, but they ended it without dragging it to toooo long. For some reason, I cannot stand the show anymore. I've tried watching reruns and I just hate it now. Nails on chalkboard. No particular reason. It's just weird because I used to really enjoy watching it when it was new.
posted by SoberHighland at 9:51 AM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I liked Seinfeld quite a bit when it originally aired. I got kind of tired of it by the end, but they ended it without dragging it to toooo long. For some reason, I cannot stand the show anymore. I've tried watching reruns and I just hate it now. Nails on chalkboard. No particular reason. It's just weird because I used to really enjoy watching it when it was new.
posted by SoberHighland at 9:51 AM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Kids todayTM just can't understand what a wasteland TV used to be and how low the bar was. And us olders have to be careful with our nostalgia because almost all of what we watched growing up was dreck. Or a good idea with significant chunks of embedded dreck.
posted by emjaybee at 9:57 AM on August 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 9:57 AM on August 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
I feel like this list is incomplete without Turn-On or Armed & Famous.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 9:58 AM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Mister Fabulous at 9:58 AM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I always wondered what 30 Rock would have been like if Rachel Dratch had been one of the leads, as originally planned. A totally different show, I'd imagine, but she is brilliantly funny. I'm glad they found a way to use her to some degree.
I am also a fan of Rachel Dratch but I look at this from the perspective of her being replaced by Jane Krakowski, who I think is legitimately a contender for the title of funniest woman on television today, and I can't at all fault the choice.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:01 AM on August 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
I am also a fan of Rachel Dratch but I look at this from the perspective of her being replaced by Jane Krakowski, who I think is legitimately a contender for the title of funniest woman on television today, and I can't at all fault the choice.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:01 AM on August 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
literally the lowest rated show on television in terms of the old ratings system, because (among other things) they realized that just because it got low ratings didn't mean that people weren't watching it.
I'm not sure that's what happened. The CW was later sold as a worthless, distressed asset, which was basically used a dumping ground for CW & WB shows, it recently made it's first profit ever. I think a better example would be Fox & "Welcome to Flatch" which had terrible ratings from the get-go but has nothing that is guaranteed to beat it, so it's got 2 seasons and a potential 3rd.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:02 AM on August 18, 2023
I'm not sure that's what happened. The CW was later sold as a worthless, distressed asset, which was basically used a dumping ground for CW & WB shows, it recently made it's first profit ever. I think a better example would be Fox & "Welcome to Flatch" which had terrible ratings from the get-go but has nothing that is guaranteed to beat it, so it's got 2 seasons and a potential 3rd.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:02 AM on August 18, 2023
Funny, Turn-On just came up on my fedifeed. What a wacky time.
I'm still miffed that the networks caved to pressure from the moral majority and cancelled Soap leaving several unresolved cliffhangers.
posted by credulous at 10:08 AM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm still miffed that the networks caved to pressure from the moral majority and cancelled Soap leaving several unresolved cliffhangers.
posted by credulous at 10:08 AM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
There was a Mad About You reboot? I want to see it! Can I see it? I thought they were on the verge of breaking up at the end of the series. Am I remembering wrong?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:09 AM on August 18, 2023
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:09 AM on August 18, 2023
'Gilligan's Island' 50th Anniversary: How Much Did The Cast Make? Sitcom Actors Missed The Boat On Syndication Royalties
"Our producer [Sherwood Schwartz] made $90 million on the re-runs of 'Gilligan's Island' alone, but we didn't get any of it,” Dawn Wells, who played Mary Ann Summers, told a New York morning show in 2012
...
the “Gilligan’s Island” crew made virtually “nothing,” or the equivalent of $5,000 a week in today’s dollars, Wells told the Vancouver Sun in January. “I think we got paid … maybe we made $50,000 [per season], I don’t know,” she said.
The re-runs went for decades and decades. The cast only got a flat-rate for the labor. This was probably standard at the time, but damn if that isn't so unfair I almost feel guilty for watching it.
Support the actor's and writer's unions!
posted by adept256 at 10:10 AM on August 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
"Our producer [Sherwood Schwartz] made $90 million on the re-runs of 'Gilligan's Island' alone, but we didn't get any of it,” Dawn Wells, who played Mary Ann Summers, told a New York morning show in 2012
...
the “Gilligan’s Island” crew made virtually “nothing,” or the equivalent of $5,000 a week in today’s dollars, Wells told the Vancouver Sun in January. “I think we got paid … maybe we made $50,000 [per season], I don’t know,” she said.
The re-runs went for decades and decades. The cast only got a flat-rate for the labor. This was probably standard at the time, but damn if that isn't so unfair I almost feel guilty for watching it.
Support the actor's and writer's unions!
posted by adept256 at 10:10 AM on August 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
Yesterday, I was trying to explain the original "Fantasy Island" show to some 20-something co-workers. They just didn't get it. TV was so different then.
(I was not trying to convince them that it was a great TV show, as it was not a great TV show. But the choices were so limited then, and schlock just isn't the same anymore! As a kid watching that, we had about 6 channels we could watch. No cable TV in Chicago until the late '80s. No VCR. It's hard to describe versus what it's like today.)
posted by SoberHighland at 10:14 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
(I was not trying to convince them that it was a great TV show, as it was not a great TV show. But the choices were so limited then, and schlock just isn't the same anymore! As a kid watching that, we had about 6 channels we could watch. No cable TV in Chicago until the late '80s. No VCR. It's hard to describe versus what it's like today.)
posted by SoberHighland at 10:14 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think cop rock is just a "Bad TV" meme at this point. Every few years, a list like this will come out and will prompt me to watch an episode. I always forget that it's not great, but it's not that bad. People love hating on musicals.
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds recently had a tremendous musical episode, and of course, that comes with the chorus (heh) of people who aren't into musicals complaining.
posted by betaray at 10:16 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds recently had a tremendous musical episode, and of course, that comes with the chorus (heh) of people who aren't into musicals complaining.
posted by betaray at 10:16 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
The butchering of Sleepy Hollow will always be the #1 worst decision to me.
posted by kimberussell at 10:26 AM on August 18, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by kimberussell at 10:26 AM on August 18, 2023 [14 favorites]
much as I enjoyed Automan
"on a scale of one to ten, I'm an eleven."
posted by nushustu at 10:28 AM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
"on a scale of one to ten, I'm an eleven."
posted by nushustu at 10:28 AM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't know how old you are, but I can't express how different (and in many cases, dire) most TV was in the days before "prestige television." If a third of the episodes in a given season were pretty good, that was high quality television.
Watched the first season when it was broadcast, then ended up in a near-decade of no TV for various reasons. Which I didn’t miss, because TV was *dire*.
I was struck repeatedly during those 5 seasons how differently the stories would have played in a modern context, where episodes are not intended to be self contained. There’s a whole lot of “Oh no! Geordi’s going crazy” kind of episodes that would feel less out of left field if they’d had a few episodes to build up to it and a few to look at consequences. And some of the dumber B-plots could have been lost out an airlock.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:31 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Watched the first season when it was broadcast, then ended up in a near-decade of no TV for various reasons. Which I didn’t miss, because TV was *dire*.
I was struck repeatedly during those 5 seasons how differently the stories would have played in a modern context, where episodes are not intended to be self contained. There’s a whole lot of “Oh no! Geordi’s going crazy” kind of episodes that would feel less out of left field if they’d had a few episodes to build up to it and a few to look at consequences. And some of the dumber B-plots could have been lost out an airlock.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:31 AM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
I haven't seen Joey, but he was hilarious in Episodes. He doesn't need any friends to make it his day, week, month, or even his year.
posted by credulous at 10:32 AM on August 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by credulous at 10:32 AM on August 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
4: Norm MacDonald is Fired From ‘SNL’ Over (Hilarious) OJ Simpson Jokes
Indeed a bad decision, Norm should have been fired for the Brandon Teena joke instead.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:35 AM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
Indeed a bad decision, Norm should have been fired for the Brandon Teena joke instead.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:35 AM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
I saw a rerun of seinfeld recently. George screwed up by promising everyone that comes to Yankee stadium a fitted baseball cap. To get out of this he has Jerry call in a bomb threat to the stadium from his landline phone.
There were no consequences for this, just the laugh track, roll credits and bass guitar.
9/11 really fucked with our heads.
posted by adept256 at 10:37 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
There were no consequences for this, just the laugh track, roll credits and bass guitar.
9/11 really fucked with our heads.
posted by adept256 at 10:37 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
I was struck repeatedly during those 5 seasons how differently the stories would have played in a modern context, where episodes are not intended to be self contained. There’s a whole lot of “Oh no! Geordi’s going crazy” kind of episodes that would feel less out of left field if they’d had a few episodes to build up to it and a few to look at consequences
Contrariwise, I'm really enjoying Strange New Worlds's largely-episodic nature. It's honestly refreshing to get all the necessary context from the "previously on..." and just dive into the monster of the week. Like, sure, remind me that M'Benga is a war hero(/criminal?) with PTSD so that part of the episode hits appropriately, but make the script also work without the backstory.
posted by uncleozzy at 10:40 AM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Contrariwise, I'm really enjoying Strange New Worlds's largely-episodic nature. It's honestly refreshing to get all the necessary context from the "previously on..." and just dive into the monster of the week. Like, sure, remind me that M'Benga is a war hero(/criminal?) with PTSD so that part of the episode hits appropriately, but make the script also work without the backstory.
posted by uncleozzy at 10:40 AM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Speaking of Andrea Anders, no mention of Better Off Ted on this list, huh?
posted by Riki tiki at 10:42 AM on August 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by Riki tiki at 10:42 AM on August 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
"31. ‘Quantum Leap’ Reboots Without Scott Bakula"
Pistols at dawn, sir.
posted by Mogur at 10:42 AM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Pistols at dawn, sir.
posted by Mogur at 10:42 AM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Contrariwise, I'm really enjoying Strange New Worlds's largely-episodic nature. It's honestly refreshing to get all the necessary context from the "previously on..." and just dive into the monster of the week. Like, sure, remind me that M'Benga is a war hero(/criminal?) with PTSD so that part of the episode hits appropriately, but make the script also work without the backstory.
Agreed, but only because SNW does episodic television in the best possible way. It's essentially monster-of-the-week, but the emotional resonance of past experience builds throughout the season, rather than there being a sort of reset button at the beginning of every episode.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:46 AM on August 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
Agreed, but only because SNW does episodic television in the best possible way. It's essentially monster-of-the-week, but the emotional resonance of past experience builds throughout the season, rather than there being a sort of reset button at the beginning of every episode.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:46 AM on August 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
It's a good question. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that. You could say the same about Firefly - would it be as much of a cult obsession if it lasted for five (increasingly meh) seasons?
We kinda got that: it was called Battlestar Galactica, and it's not terribly fondly remembered despite its strong start.
posted by General Malaise at 10:46 AM on August 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
We kinda got that: it was called Battlestar Galactica, and it's not terribly fondly remembered despite its strong start.
posted by General Malaise at 10:46 AM on August 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
Oh lord, how do people hate that Armin Tanzarian episode so much? I was incredibly harsh on "The Simpsons" during its seasons 9-12 decline (as would be expected from a cynical teenage superfan who was let down by the show) but picking out that episode in particular has never made sense to me. One of the 50 worst decisions in TV history? I doubt it's one of the 50 worst decisions in "Simpsons" history.
posted by mellow seas at 10:47 AM on August 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by mellow seas at 10:47 AM on August 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
There were no consequences for this
The Seinfeld characters were constantly hoisting themselves on their own petards, which I think distinguishes the show from blithe-asshole successors. As a result of the fake bomb threat, George loses his delightful nap nook!
posted by praemunire at 10:47 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
The Seinfeld characters were constantly hoisting themselves on their own petards, which I think distinguishes the show from blithe-asshole successors. As a result of the fake bomb threat, George loses his delightful nap nook!
posted by praemunire at 10:47 AM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
There was a brief moment in the mid-80s - about the time Amazing Stories and the Twilight Zone reboot happened,
I don't recall much of Amazing Stories, but I will take any opportunity to defend the mid-80s Twilight Zone for one fantastic decision: somewhere someone realized that having an anthology show with one to three separate stories in an hour opened up a daring possibility. The vast majority of American television is built around the story fitting into thirty or sixty minutes. This is a bit more relaxed now with a continual narrative where plots can be put aside unresolved -- cliffhanger optional -- to be picked up next week. In the eighties, you absolutely resolved, except for the occasional two-part episode.
The Twilight Zone people realized that there was no need to do this, and as long as the total run time of the component episodes fit into that hour, it was fine. This they could be fairly daring with their storytelling, because the story you're watching might be on pace to wrap up in ten or fifteen minutes in any other show but here it could swerve and crash through the guardrail into the gulch, leaving the characters with a totally unexpected and ironic fate, as befitted the stories they were telling,
A lot of televised narratives from decades ago might seem glacial to a modern audience because of the Procrustes' bed that was network time slots. Now you watch a streaming show and this episode might be 38 minutes while last week's was 44 and next week's might be an hour and five.
Of course, in the second season, they went back to straight thirty-minute stories. Boo.
I don't know how well it has held up, but I have the still shinkwrapped first season somewhere around here I may rewatch it.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:05 AM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
I don't recall much of Amazing Stories, but I will take any opportunity to defend the mid-80s Twilight Zone for one fantastic decision: somewhere someone realized that having an anthology show with one to three separate stories in an hour opened up a daring possibility. The vast majority of American television is built around the story fitting into thirty or sixty minutes. This is a bit more relaxed now with a continual narrative where plots can be put aside unresolved -- cliffhanger optional -- to be picked up next week. In the eighties, you absolutely resolved, except for the occasional two-part episode.
The Twilight Zone people realized that there was no need to do this, and as long as the total run time of the component episodes fit into that hour, it was fine. This they could be fairly daring with their storytelling, because the story you're watching might be on pace to wrap up in ten or fifteen minutes in any other show but here it could swerve and crash through the guardrail into the gulch, leaving the characters with a totally unexpected and ironic fate, as befitted the stories they were telling,
A lot of televised narratives from decades ago might seem glacial to a modern audience because of the Procrustes' bed that was network time slots. Now you watch a streaming show and this episode might be 38 minutes while last week's was 44 and next week's might be an hour and five.
Of course, in the second season, they went back to straight thirty-minute stories. Boo.
I don't know how well it has held up, but I have the still shinkwrapped first season somewhere around here I may rewatch it.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:05 AM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
I think Breaking Bad is highly overrated. Like.... I can do dark television and I don't have to like the protagonists but I genuinely didn't care about most of those people or their largely self inflicted problems. Of course it led to Better Call Saul so all is forgiven.
posted by Jacen at 11:06 AM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 11:06 AM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
4. Norm MacDonald is Fired From ‘SNL’ Over (Hilarious) OJ Simpson Jokes
It's odd he was fired because MacDonald was sexist and bigoted, and he defended people in show business who were of a similar mindset, and we also have another thread currently running about Lorne Michaels, which goes into some detail about how SNL has basically been built around a lot of sexism and bigotry.
So probably not a terrible firing, in hindsight, because these things are usually just the tip of the iceberg on a lot of shitty behavior. No need to put "hilarious" in parentheses to try to prop it up as anything other than what it was.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:08 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's odd he was fired because MacDonald was sexist and bigoted, and he defended people in show business who were of a similar mindset, and we also have another thread currently running about Lorne Michaels, which goes into some detail about how SNL has basically been built around a lot of sexism and bigotry.
So probably not a terrible firing, in hindsight, because these things are usually just the tip of the iceberg on a lot of shitty behavior. No need to put "hilarious" in parentheses to try to prop it up as anything other than what it was.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:08 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
18. ‘Lost’ Blows The Ending
Oh come on; Lost is always such a punching-bag in these lists but in "failed to stick the landing" stakes it's way eclipsed now by Game of Thrones spectacularly falling apart in its last season.
It's striking how hard and how fast Game of Thrones disappeared from cultural currency; like, it was everywhere in conversation and then pretty much overnight it wasn't. It also pretty much disappeared Benioff and Weiss for a while -- remember they were going to do Confederate, and then they weren't; they were going to do Star Wars, and then they weren't.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:13 AM on August 18, 2023 [25 favorites]
Oh come on; Lost is always such a punching-bag in these lists but in "failed to stick the landing" stakes it's way eclipsed now by Game of Thrones spectacularly falling apart in its last season.
It's striking how hard and how fast Game of Thrones disappeared from cultural currency; like, it was everywhere in conversation and then pretty much overnight it wasn't. It also pretty much disappeared Benioff and Weiss for a while -- remember they were going to do Confederate, and then they weren't; they were going to do Star Wars, and then they weren't.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:13 AM on August 18, 2023 [25 favorites]
Speaking of Andrea Anders, no mention of Better Off Ted on this list, huh?
Oooh, good call. That one was criminal.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:35 AM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
Oooh, good call. That one was criminal.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:35 AM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
I know it's not at the level as one of the worst TV decisions of all time, but the reasoning behind cancelling Y: The Last Man just really irritates me anytime I think of it. I really liked that show but it wasn't around long enough to know how good or bad it would eventually be.
posted by Quonab at 11:43 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Quonab at 11:43 AM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was pretty convinced Y: The Last Man was already a far cry from the quality level of the comic and I didn't mind it going under. I didn't hate it, but I was underwhelmed and I'd rather start the memory holing so a better swing can be taken again sooner than later.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:45 AM on August 18, 2023
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:45 AM on August 18, 2023
> "I don't know how old you are, but I can't express how different (and in many cases, dire) most TV was in the days before 'prestige television.'"
I am old enough that I watched Star Trek: The Next Generation as it came out, and found the first season so dire that I stopped watching after five episodes. I was, incidentally, a huge fan of the original series, which I watched in syndication during my childhood, and was very excited about this new series.
A few years later, I was lured back into watching semi-regularly after having been told that the series improved immensely after season two, which it definitely had.
posted by kyrademon at 11:51 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
I am old enough that I watched Star Trek: The Next Generation as it came out, and found the first season so dire that I stopped watching after five episodes. I was, incidentally, a huge fan of the original series, which I watched in syndication during my childhood, and was very excited about this new series.
A few years later, I was lured back into watching semi-regularly after having been told that the series improved immensely after season two, which it definitely had.
posted by kyrademon at 11:51 AM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
I won't defend the first season of ST:TNG. I was 12 and one of the target audiences (having attended Star Trek cons with my folks since I was an infant). I was sustained through that season because I absolutely loved Q (still do), and because there was at least one good episode every six or so (Where No One Has Gone Before, The Big Goodbye, Datalore, etc.). But even at the time I recognized that the filler in between was pretty lousy.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:02 PM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:02 PM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
We all pretended that ST:TNG was acceptable watching because there literally wasn't anything like it. Science fiction shows set in the far future with space ships and alien planets just didn't exist in the 80s despite the continuing impact of the original series in re-runs.
posted by AndrewStephens at 12:09 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by AndrewStephens at 12:09 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
A lot of the "decisions" on this list do not strike me as things that somebody actually decided but just things that happened accidentally as a result of people in TV business just fumbling their way through life just like all the rest of us do.
Westworld, for instance. It's not like the writer's room sat down and decided, hey, we should get so caught up in being weird and hard-to-parse with multiple timelines and unreliable viewpoints that we lose a big chunk of our viewers. I think what happened to Westworld is basically the same thing that happened to Sleepy Hollow - a group of writers, producers, actors and crew with a decent core concept happened to stumble into one of those magical moments where all the pieces just came together perfectly, and made for a huge hit. And then they got a Season 2 order and had to try to figure out why the first season was a huge hit, when truth be told, they don't really know. So they latch on to the most obvious, "unusual" distinguishing features of the show and assume those are what made it work and double down on those. Every decent cook knows that "X makes this recipe good, so twice as much X will make the recipe twice as good!" is absolutely terrible logic and a recipe for disaster, but that is a lesson that a large percentage of show-business execs, producers, and writers seem not to have ever learned.
I am surprised and a bit baffled to see people genuinely debating whether Firefly should've been green-lit, but nary a mention of Dollhouse anywhere on this list, given that Dollhouse represents a whole collection of poor decisions. And speaking of showrunners who were allowed to keep working long enough to tarnish their own legacy, the disastrous X-Files season 11 was a decision somebody made (and probably not even the only X-Files-related decision that could make this list, though certainly the highest-ranking).
However - even allowing for my recency bias - I have to think the absolute worst television decision I've ever even heard of is Paramount deciding that even though they have already made a second season of Emmy-Award-nominated Star Trek: Prodigy, they're just....not going to release it. And also delete Season 1 from their streaming service - several days early. My mind just boggles.
posted by mstokes650 at 12:10 PM on August 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
Westworld, for instance. It's not like the writer's room sat down and decided, hey, we should get so caught up in being weird and hard-to-parse with multiple timelines and unreliable viewpoints that we lose a big chunk of our viewers. I think what happened to Westworld is basically the same thing that happened to Sleepy Hollow - a group of writers, producers, actors and crew with a decent core concept happened to stumble into one of those magical moments where all the pieces just came together perfectly, and made for a huge hit. And then they got a Season 2 order and had to try to figure out why the first season was a huge hit, when truth be told, they don't really know. So they latch on to the most obvious, "unusual" distinguishing features of the show and assume those are what made it work and double down on those. Every decent cook knows that "X makes this recipe good, so twice as much X will make the recipe twice as good!" is absolutely terrible logic and a recipe for disaster, but that is a lesson that a large percentage of show-business execs, producers, and writers seem not to have ever learned.
I am surprised and a bit baffled to see people genuinely debating whether Firefly should've been green-lit, but nary a mention of Dollhouse anywhere on this list, given that Dollhouse represents a whole collection of poor decisions. And speaking of showrunners who were allowed to keep working long enough to tarnish their own legacy, the disastrous X-Files season 11 was a decision somebody made (and probably not even the only X-Files-related decision that could make this list, though certainly the highest-ranking).
However - even allowing for my recency bias - I have to think the absolute worst television decision I've ever even heard of is Paramount deciding that even though they have already made a second season of Emmy-Award-nominated Star Trek: Prodigy, they're just....not going to release it. And also delete Season 1 from their streaming service - several days early. My mind just boggles.
posted by mstokes650 at 12:10 PM on August 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
Nobody has anything to say yet about
7. Fox Gives Chevy Chase a Talk Show
If you dare, try to make it through all four minutes of this hideously embarrassing segment with Goldie Hawn, culminating in Chevy bringing out a birthday cake for her son in the audience and dropping it, then engaging in brutally awful dancing on the stage. He's so visibly nervous and awkward it's hard to watch.
I'd never seen footage of the show and yes, the critics are right. I'm only surprised it lasted as long as it did; I would have canned it after the first night.
posted by fortitude25 at 12:17 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
7. Fox Gives Chevy Chase a Talk Show
If you dare, try to make it through all four minutes of this hideously embarrassing segment with Goldie Hawn, culminating in Chevy bringing out a birthday cake for her son in the audience and dropping it, then engaging in brutally awful dancing on the stage. He's so visibly nervous and awkward it's hard to watch.
I'd never seen footage of the show and yes, the critics are right. I'm only surprised it lasted as long as it did; I would have canned it after the first night.
posted by fortitude25 at 12:17 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
disastrous X-Files season 11 was a decision somebody made
X-Files season 11 was disastrous? I really liked the blobfish episode, which was nearly silent for like 15 minutes but really clever, and I recall another episode that was really good that was apparently called "The Lost Art of Forehead Sweat". So they were making both innovative and compelling shows, and had fun titles. Not bad for an hour of my time.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:18 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
X-Files season 11 was disastrous? I really liked the blobfish episode, which was nearly silent for like 15 minutes but really clever, and I recall another episode that was really good that was apparently called "The Lost Art of Forehead Sweat". So they were making both innovative and compelling shows, and had fun titles. Not bad for an hour of my time.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:18 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
"Profit - now that's a show I was mad they canceled."
Oh, for reals. I loved that show and then it just went *poof* off the air. I bought the DVD set when it came out - didn't quite hold up the same way, but the premise was great. And I thought Adrian Pasdar was great.
Re: all the comments on Firefly. First about the plots Whedon wanted to do... JFC. Yes, I'm glad that never got made. I still wish we'd gotten more of the series, because the cast and characters were great.
posted by jzb at 12:24 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh, for reals. I loved that show and then it just went *poof* off the air. I bought the DVD set when it came out - didn't quite hold up the same way, but the premise was great. And I thought Adrian Pasdar was great.
Re: all the comments on Firefly. First about the plots Whedon wanted to do... JFC. Yes, I'm glad that never got made. I still wish we'd gotten more of the series, because the cast and characters were great.
posted by jzb at 12:24 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
With the shows that are being un-released from streaming and projects shelved for tax reasons... is there a chance they will make it to DVD / Blu-Ray or do they just go into the memory hole forever? Like, in 5 years or whatever can they release them without a tax penalty for superfans or what?
(Kind of like Profit which eventually found its way to DVD with the unaired episodes.)
posted by jzb at 12:26 PM on August 18, 2023
(Kind of like Profit which eventually found its way to DVD with the unaired episodes.)
posted by jzb at 12:26 PM on August 18, 2023
Still miss Firefly (there were always going to be questionable choices, but I loved the basics of that world). Was mad that Wonderfalls got cancelled. That Dead Like Me fizzled and they never released any follow up movie (shhh) Mad that Pushing Daisies, Better Off Ted and Heroes all missed their potential due to the last writers strike (pay your writers)
And yes, I swear that Dollhouse had to be because there was something going on between Whedon and Dushku. The whole idea was sticky icky.
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:38 PM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
And yes, I swear that Dollhouse had to be because there was something going on between Whedon and Dushku. The whole idea was sticky icky.
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:38 PM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Wow, I feel like there's been a 180º MetaTurn on Firefly. I feel like I wouldn't have to go that far back in the archives to find Browncoats here stanning the show.
Whedon is, of course, problematic. But there was a lot of very interesting world-building going on, and I really liked the cast. I assume RS is skirting the Whedon problem by not noting it, but for a long time, it was the Internet paradigm for Stupid Suits Strangling Beloved Show in Crib.
Thanks to The Pluto Gangsta for the backstory.
nthing Wonderfalls.
posted by the sobsister at 12:39 PM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Whedon is, of course, problematic. But there was a lot of very interesting world-building going on, and I really liked the cast. I assume RS is skirting the Whedon problem by not noting it, but for a long time, it was the Internet paradigm for Stupid Suits Strangling Beloved Show in Crib.
Thanks to The Pluto Gangsta for the backstory.
nthing Wonderfalls.
posted by the sobsister at 12:39 PM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
No "Pink Lady and Jeff"? This list is a fail.
The Brady Bunch Variety Hour may be the worst variety show of all time, but Pink Lady and Jeff was so bad it literally killed off the variety show genre, period. I wrote an answer on Quora that included a chart with the number of new variety shows introduced on major or syndicated TV networks for each year between 1948 and 2000. In 1980, when Pink Lady and Jeff went on the air, it was one of 4 new variety shows introduced that year. In 1981, the year after Pink Lady and Jeff went off the air, there were zero new variety shows introduced. Pink Lady and Jeff face-planted so hard that the production of new variety shows has never gone back to pre-1980 levels.
posted by jonp72 at 12:46 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
The Brady Bunch Variety Hour may be the worst variety show of all time, but Pink Lady and Jeff was so bad it literally killed off the variety show genre, period. I wrote an answer on Quora that included a chart with the number of new variety shows introduced on major or syndicated TV networks for each year between 1948 and 2000. In 1980, when Pink Lady and Jeff went on the air, it was one of 4 new variety shows introduced that year. In 1981, the year after Pink Lady and Jeff went off the air, there were zero new variety shows introduced. Pink Lady and Jeff face-planted so hard that the production of new variety shows has never gone back to pre-1980 levels.
posted by jonp72 at 12:46 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
The entries on this list that are politics-adjacent don't quite fit the theme.
It's a liberal conspiracy theory that the Bush campaign intentionally leaked fake documents saying Bush went AWOL from the National Guard, because people don't usually play four-dimensional chess in real life.
Also, TV networks calling Florida for Bush is one of the ten worst decisions tv networks ever made, because it created the false impression that Bush won Florida.
Putting the wrong guy in the White House seems like a pretty big deal, but apparently not as big a deal as Montreal Screwjobbing Conan O'Brien.
Oh, and, one more thing, TV networks are also responsible for Trump winning the presidency.
Which is, in turn, not as big of a deal as not getting a second season of Freaks and Geeks.
posted by box at 12:54 PM on August 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
It's a liberal conspiracy theory that the Bush campaign intentionally leaked fake documents saying Bush went AWOL from the National Guard, because people don't usually play four-dimensional chess in real life.
Also, TV networks calling Florida for Bush is one of the ten worst decisions tv networks ever made, because it created the false impression that Bush won Florida.
Putting the wrong guy in the White House seems like a pretty big deal, but apparently not as big a deal as Montreal Screwjobbing Conan O'Brien.
Oh, and, one more thing, TV networks are also responsible for Trump winning the presidency.
Which is, in turn, not as big of a deal as not getting a second season of Freaks and Geeks.
posted by box at 12:54 PM on August 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
Every now and again I watch the Brady Disco Medley just to make sure I'm still in the worst (best?) timeline. Look out for Fake Jan.
posted by credulous at 12:55 PM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by credulous at 12:55 PM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I can see how Quibi belongs on this list, but that debacle did bring about the sublime Mapleworth Murders with Paula Pell and, wow, everyone (Tina Fey, J. B. Smoove, Chris Parnell, Patton Oswalt, Maya Rudolph, Wanda Sykes . . .). Maybe not worth $1.75 billion, but definitely worth searching out on the Roku Channel or wherever it ends up to next.
posted by helpthebear at 12:59 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by helpthebear at 12:59 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
And yes, I swear that Dollhouse had to be because there was something going on between Whedon and Dushku.
Can we not?
posted by praemunire at 1:00 PM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
Can we not?
posted by praemunire at 1:00 PM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
Annnd...speaking of the wonderful worldbuilding of Firefly...
posted by praemunire at 1:02 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 1:02 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure how the Roseanne incident (#5) fits on this list. That was a case of karma biting her ass for being racist. Nothing to do with the network except that they actually did the right thing and fired her.
posted by hydra77 at 1:12 PM on August 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by hydra77 at 1:12 PM on August 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
I mean, "linking rando's video on YT" isn't exactly a rebuttal to the notion that there was very interesting world-building on Firefly.
So, you owe me 02:55 of my life back for that...amateurish montage of the show's Asian-related imagery with the Amazing Kicker that, despite said Asian-oriented culture of the show's world, Asian actors weren't cast in a show made 20-plus years ago?
posted by the sobsister at 1:13 PM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
So, you owe me 02:55 of my life back for that...amateurish montage of the show's Asian-related imagery with the Amazing Kicker that, despite said Asian-oriented culture of the show's world, Asian actors weren't cast in a show made 20-plus years ago?
posted by the sobsister at 1:13 PM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
I still like Firefly, and what could have been. The comics are all pretty solid quality and largely worth reading
posted by Jacen at 1:34 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 1:34 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds recently had a tremendous musical episode, and of course, that comes with the chorus (heh) of people who aren't into musicals complaining.
I might have complained less if there had actually been enough of that stuff writers do...create a plot...to make it into a real story instead of thinly padded set of character vignettes.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 1:35 PM on August 18, 2023
I might have complained less if there had actually been enough of that stuff writers do...create a plot...to make it into a real story instead of thinly padded set of character vignettes.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 1:35 PM on August 18, 2023
We all pretended that ST:TNG was acceptable watching because there literally wasn't anything like it. Science fiction shows set in the far future with space ships and alien planets just didn't exist in the 80s despite the continuing impact of the original series in re-runs.
Do you know what show I watched before ST:TNG every week on Sunday evening when it first came out? Captain Power. A show designed to get you to buy toys that would shoot at the TV screen and be shot by it. I never bought the toys but still watched the show because it was the best thing on TV at that time. The TV landscape was absolutely dire back then so viewers would be willing to forgive a lot.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:08 PM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
Do you know what show I watched before ST:TNG every week on Sunday evening when it first came out? Captain Power. A show designed to get you to buy toys that would shoot at the TV screen and be shot by it. I never bought the toys but still watched the show because it was the best thing on TV at that time. The TV landscape was absolutely dire back then so viewers would be willing to forgive a lot.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:08 PM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
A lot of the "decisions" on this list do not strike me as things that somebody actually decided but just things that happened accidentally as a result of people in TV business just fumbling their way through life just like all the rest of us do.
That's interesting because FTWTLJLATROUD* is basically what the Jason Bateman character in Arrested Development is all about. (Or maybe the entire family?) Those Netflix seasons though...so disappointing, so heartbreakingly horrible.
*fumbling their way through life just like all the rest of us do
posted by scratch at 3:21 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
That's interesting because FTWTLJLATROUD* is basically what the Jason Bateman character in Arrested Development is all about. (Or maybe the entire family?) Those Netflix seasons though...so disappointing, so heartbreakingly horrible.
*fumbling their way through life just like all the rest of us do
posted by scratch at 3:21 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
What about Maclean Stevenson leaving MASH? Even killed off his character, Col Blake, in a plane crash when he left. From his Wiki page:
"Stevenson's career decline resulted in his becoming a target for industry jokes. Steve Daley wrote in 1985 that he had "worn out his television welcome", while David Bianculli drafted "The Annual McLean Stevenson Memorial 'I'm Gonna Quit This Show and Become a Big Star' Award" early in his career as a critic. Stevenson commented in 1990 that some of the criticism was justified, conceding that leaving M*A*S*H was the biggest mistake of his career. "I made the mistake of believing that people were enamored of McLean Stevenson when the person they were enamored of was Henry Blake", said Stevenson. "So if you go and do The McLean Stevenson Show, nobody cares about McLean Stevenson." Stevenson admitted that his problem was finding something of the caliber of M*A*S*H, saying "I've never been able to work with a group that's as talented or scripts that are as good. I did some terrible shows. But nobody made me do it. I did everything by choice."
posted by pthomas745 at 3:45 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
"Stevenson's career decline resulted in his becoming a target for industry jokes. Steve Daley wrote in 1985 that he had "worn out his television welcome", while David Bianculli drafted "The Annual McLean Stevenson Memorial 'I'm Gonna Quit This Show and Become a Big Star' Award" early in his career as a critic. Stevenson commented in 1990 that some of the criticism was justified, conceding that leaving M*A*S*H was the biggest mistake of his career. "I made the mistake of believing that people were enamored of McLean Stevenson when the person they were enamored of was Henry Blake", said Stevenson. "So if you go and do The McLean Stevenson Show, nobody cares about McLean Stevenson." Stevenson admitted that his problem was finding something of the caliber of M*A*S*H, saying "I've never been able to work with a group that's as talented or scripts that are as good. I did some terrible shows. But nobody made me do it. I did everything by choice."
posted by pthomas745 at 3:45 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
Better Off Ted was a gem.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:05 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Faintdreams at 4:05 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Searched the page for "Pantheon" but, suprisingly, didn't find it mentioned. Season 2 of this wonderful series was ordered and completed but it will most likely never see the light of day.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 4:05 PM on August 18, 2023
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 4:05 PM on August 18, 2023
I seem to recall that there was a whole series of...series that made it pretty clear that the Fox development team (or whoever was green-lighting shows) and the scheduling/programming team (who put them on the air) were...not on the same page in the early 2000s. Like, these really cool shows would get on the air, but you quickly had the sense that the ad/scheduling/etc people were looking at them like "the fuck is this?" Which led to them getting buried on Friday nights, or poorly promoted, or aired out of order, etc, etc, etc
posted by DebetEsse at 4:08 PM on August 18, 2023
posted by DebetEsse at 4:08 PM on August 18, 2023
Those Netflix seasons though...so disappointing, so heartbreakingly horrible.
I don't ever recall thinking, this show is horrible. I just got tired of these fucking people and their unrelenting moral-ethical-functional incompetence ... and stopped watching episodes before the end.
But now that you mention it -- yeah, Arrested Development did kinda suck once it got to Netflix.
posted by philip-random at 4:09 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't ever recall thinking, this show is horrible. I just got tired of these fucking people and their unrelenting moral-ethical-functional incompetence ... and stopped watching episodes before the end.
But now that you mention it -- yeah, Arrested Development did kinda suck once it got to Netflix.
posted by philip-random at 4:09 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Has anyone ever done a list of just Netflix shows that were cancelled too early? I feel like there are a lot of those ?
The 2017 reboot of one Day At A Time springs to mind..
posted by Faintdreams at 4:09 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
The 2017 reboot of one Day At A Time springs to mind..
posted by Faintdreams at 4:09 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Unpopular opinion: the Beverly Crusher character is just bad and it was good when she was gone.
While I can't quite say I agree with this, I will admit to being on Team Katherine Pulaski and will die on the "she didn't deserve the backlash her character received" hill.
Yeah, the 80's and 90's were seemingly filled with short-lived talk shows from (and guest hosted by) various (semi-)celebs, so it's probably not a surprise that Chevy Chase took a shot at it. (A surreal and pretty painful moment is when Suzanne Summers tried to interview Wire after they performed "Drill" on the Joan Rivers show. The look on Graham Lewis's face at 5:22 says it all).
And four words: Heil Honey, I'm Home.
posted by gtrwolf at 4:31 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
While I can't quite say I agree with this, I will admit to being on Team Katherine Pulaski and will die on the "she didn't deserve the backlash her character received" hill.
Yeah, the 80's and 90's were seemingly filled with short-lived talk shows from (and guest hosted by) various (semi-)celebs, so it's probably not a surprise that Chevy Chase took a shot at it. (A surreal and pretty painful moment is when Suzanne Summers tried to interview Wire after they performed "Drill" on the Joan Rivers show. The look on Graham Lewis's face at 5:22 says it all).
And four words: Heil Honey, I'm Home.
posted by gtrwolf at 4:31 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
No mention of the ABC execs who pressured David Lynch to solve Laura Palmer's murder midway through season two of Twin Peaks? That'd be pretty high on my list.
posted by flod at 4:40 PM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by flod at 4:40 PM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
Someone on Twitter pointed out how this is basically the last 30 years of TV, aimed at people who dont remember or care what happened farther back.
Anyway, as for horrible TV showrunner decisions, 80s category, I nominate "Moonlighting," an episode devoted to Maddie's fetus, played by Bruce Willis, in which the pregnancy ends in miscarriage. Eww emoji.
I think Breaking Bad is highly overrated. Like.... I can do dark television and I don't have to like the protagonists but I genuinely didn't care about most of those people or their largely self inflicted problems.
Yes, and see also "Succession" for me.
how different (and in many cases, dire) most TV was in the days before "prestige television." If a third of the episodes in a given season were pretty good, that was high quality television.
But in ye olden daye, I didnt binge nine episodes and then have to wait two years for another nine. 22 eps, Sept -May, reruns in summer, new season in mid Sept., right after back-to-school. Ahh.
posted by NorthernLite at 4:56 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Anyway, as for horrible TV showrunner decisions, 80s category, I nominate "Moonlighting," an episode devoted to Maddie's fetus, played by Bruce Willis, in which the pregnancy ends in miscarriage. Eww emoji.
I think Breaking Bad is highly overrated. Like.... I can do dark television and I don't have to like the protagonists but I genuinely didn't care about most of those people or their largely self inflicted problems.
Yes, and see also "Succession" for me.
how different (and in many cases, dire) most TV was in the days before "prestige television." If a third of the episodes in a given season were pretty good, that was high quality television.
But in ye olden daye, I didnt binge nine episodes and then have to wait two years for another nine. 22 eps, Sept -May, reruns in summer, new season in mid Sept., right after back-to-school. Ahh.
posted by NorthernLite at 4:56 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I can see how Quibi belongs on this list, but that debacle did bring about the sublime Mapleworth Murders with Paula Pell and, wow, everyone (Tina Fey, J. B. Smoove, Chris Parnell, Patton Oswalt, Maya Rudolph, Wanda Sykes . . .). Maybe not worth $1.75 billion, but definitely worth searching out on the Roku Channel or wherever it ends up to next.
Thank you! I was mentally composing my “I never saw Quibi when it was a thing but it gave us Paula Pell’s Mapleworth Murders” comment, but yours is better. It’s an incredibly raunchy Murder She Wrote and Paula Pell is also ridiculous in Girls5Eva and A.P. Bio.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 5:01 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Thank you! I was mentally composing my “I never saw Quibi when it was a thing but it gave us Paula Pell’s Mapleworth Murders” comment, but yours is better. It’s an incredibly raunchy Murder She Wrote and Paula Pell is also ridiculous in Girls5Eva and A.P. Bio.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 5:01 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
duds like... Joanie Loves Chachi
reboot: new cast, & the bandanna leg tourniquet is the lead
"Andy Richter Controls the Universe" wasn't 30 years ago, but "What’s Alan Watching?" & "Parker Lewis Can't Lose" -- alas, poor Corin Nemec2 -- were.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:06 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
reboot: new cast, & the bandanna leg tourniquet is the lead
"Andy Richter Controls the Universe" wasn't 30 years ago, but "What’s Alan Watching?" & "Parker Lewis Can't Lose" -- alas, poor Corin Nemec2 -- were.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:06 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
No one else probably remembers this show but the short lived (cancelled early by Fox) 2008 show New Amsterdam (not the 2018 medical drama) would have been a great 13-24 episode streaming show. Would make my top ten of missteps.
If anyone else wants to be disappointed at a mid season cancelation the whole run is on archive.org.
posted by Mitheral at 5:36 PM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
If anyone else wants to be disappointed at a mid season cancelation the whole run is on archive.org.
posted by Mitheral at 5:36 PM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
I see all your laments over brilliant shows unfairly cancelled after only one season.*
And I raise Heroes and Sleepy Hollow, whose second seasons were so bad, we wish they hadn't been renewed in the first place.
Speaking of renewal decisions, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Babylon 5's off-again on-again fifth season.
Once the PTB told JMS that Season 4 would be its last, he rushed along the story to tie up the loose ends and reach his planned conclusion. Had it ended there, dayenu. But the last-minute renewal meant having to renegotiate everyone's contracts (costing the show Claudia Christian) and coming up with new storylines after they already wrapped up the major plotlines.
posted by cheshyre at 5:44 PM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
And I raise Heroes and Sleepy Hollow, whose second seasons were so bad, we wish they hadn't been renewed in the first place.
Speaking of renewal decisions, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Babylon 5's off-again on-again fifth season.
Once the PTB told JMS that Season 4 would be its last, he rushed along the story to tie up the loose ends and reach his planned conclusion. Had it ended there, dayenu. But the last-minute renewal meant having to renegotiate everyone's contracts (costing the show Claudia Christian) and coming up with new storylines after they already wrapped up the major plotlines.
posted by cheshyre at 5:44 PM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
scruss: "Will always be mad about Eerie, Indiana, too."
Eerie Indiana was amazing,
posted by signal at 6:30 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Eerie Indiana was amazing,
posted by signal at 6:30 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm still mad about Joan of Arcadia. And Wonderfalls. And Pushing Daisies.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:05 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:05 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Funny, Turn-On just came up on my fedifeed. What a wacky time.
I was saving this for a FPP but it's probably more relevant here. The two completed episodes of Turn-On, thought to be destroyed by ABC and lost forever, surfaced about a month ago. A few blogs covered the news but I think Cabel Sasser covered it the best here.
This is also an important artifact if you're into early computer graphics and/or the Scanimate and ANIMAC systems.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:48 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was saving this for a FPP but it's probably more relevant here. The two completed episodes of Turn-On, thought to be destroyed by ABC and lost forever, surfaced about a month ago. A few blogs covered the news but I think Cabel Sasser covered it the best here.
This is also an important artifact if you're into early computer graphics and/or the Scanimate and ANIMAC systems.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:48 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was annoyed by the cancellation of both Push, Nevada and Traveler, because they both were unusual TV for their time. Both of them involved mysteries that were supposed to unfold over an entire season, but Traveler was cancelled after episode 4 (a total of 8 eventually aired), and Push was cancelled before it was halfway through its run, and before enough clues were revealed for someone to win the offline puzzle.
Neither cancellation was a bad choice, to be honest, as the audience wasn't really ready for this sort of long-form episodic content (Twin Peaks being a big exception here). Individual episodes didn't really stand alone, and without the ability to binge-watch, it was hard to keep an audience with you for a whole season.
posted by toxic at 7:52 PM on August 18, 2023
Neither cancellation was a bad choice, to be honest, as the audience wasn't really ready for this sort of long-form episodic content (Twin Peaks being a big exception here). Individual episodes didn't really stand alone, and without the ability to binge-watch, it was hard to keep an audience with you for a whole season.
posted by toxic at 7:52 PM on August 18, 2023
MattD: it is my understanding that the Game of Thrones showrunners legally could not be fired because of the way their deal was structured. HBO was the funding but didn't actually own the rights, etc. (Forgive the lack of detail, but it's been a few years since I last read the exact info, and I don't have a link I can give you; I just know that "HBO should have fired them" is one of the common takes and it is kind of in reverse of how the deal actually worked.)
I am pretty sure the actors were typically contracted by the year, although they might have been locked in for the last couple of years in a single contract; the showrunners had said 73 episodes total in terms of story breakdown for several years before the show ended. So it's true that the leads were stressed out and bored and wanted to move on, but I don't think they were in any kind of contract violation. I do think if the show had stretched to 13 seasons, Kit Harington would have probably bailed by refusing to sign for more seasons after s8, so you're not wrong in that sense. (Harington was very unwell, although the pressure of bringing the show to a close was part of what was wrong with him; the inability to handle his level of fame in his 20s was the rest of it.)
That said, at one point, Benioff and Weiss owned the rights to all Westeros-related stuff for TV -- any adaptations of other material would have to go through them in one way or another -- and it's very clear since the advent of House of the Dragon that they have been bought out, perhaps willingly. Production is no longer done through their company Big Head, Little Head, but through a new GRRM-related company.
Anyway, I am regrettably a GoT superfan, and I have to say at this point: I'm glad we had the show, but I think the true bad executive decision might have been greenlighting it before the source material was completed.
posted by verbminx at 11:36 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
I am pretty sure the actors were typically contracted by the year, although they might have been locked in for the last couple of years in a single contract; the showrunners had said 73 episodes total in terms of story breakdown for several years before the show ended. So it's true that the leads were stressed out and bored and wanted to move on, but I don't think they were in any kind of contract violation. I do think if the show had stretched to 13 seasons, Kit Harington would have probably bailed by refusing to sign for more seasons after s8, so you're not wrong in that sense. (Harington was very unwell, although the pressure of bringing the show to a close was part of what was wrong with him; the inability to handle his level of fame in his 20s was the rest of it.)
That said, at one point, Benioff and Weiss owned the rights to all Westeros-related stuff for TV -- any adaptations of other material would have to go through them in one way or another -- and it's very clear since the advent of House of the Dragon that they have been bought out, perhaps willingly. Production is no longer done through their company Big Head, Little Head, but through a new GRRM-related company.
Anyway, I am regrettably a GoT superfan, and I have to say at this point: I'm glad we had the show, but I think the true bad executive decision might have been greenlighting it before the source material was completed.
posted by verbminx at 11:36 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
Given how many people it takes to make a TV show, how expensive they are to make and how many opportunities there are for bad decisions before the process is complete, the miracle is that even one good episode of one show ever gets made, ever. Same goes for movies.
Also, killing Susan was one of Seinfeld's masterstrokes. In US sitcoms' ocean of saccharin sentimentality, it was Seinfeld's dark heart that made it so special.
posted by Paul Slade at 4:38 AM on August 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
Also, killing Susan was one of Seinfeld's masterstrokes. In US sitcoms' ocean of saccharin sentimentality, it was Seinfeld's dark heart that made it so special.
posted by Paul Slade at 4:38 AM on August 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
I was interested to see how many of these involved rebooting or recycling previously successful material. My favorite is the Golden Girls writers, Barry Fanaro and Mort Nathan, who took their Mr. P-feiffer joke, which was delightful in its original context episode of "It's a Miserable Life," and then reworked it into whatever The Secret Diary of Desmond Pfeiffer was supposed to be, after which neither appears to have worked as a producer again.
posted by audi alteram partem at 5:53 AM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by audi alteram partem at 5:53 AM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
NEWTHINK ALERT: JOSS WHEDON IS ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE. ALL THINGS JOSS WHEDON ARE NOW OLDTHINK. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU. RESET.
posted by zengargoyle at 5:58 AM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by zengargoyle at 5:58 AM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I miss Northern Exposure. I had a standing weekly date with this hippy chick to smoke a bowl and watch Northern exposure even though she was housemates with a problematic ex-girlfriend of mine. Every fucking week I'd still come over and we would get stoned and watch Northern Exposure.
posted by zengargoyle at 6:03 AM on August 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by zengargoyle at 6:03 AM on August 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
Really unfortunate this isn't legally streaming anywhere.
posted by Mitheral at 6:32 AM on August 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 6:32 AM on August 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
NEWTHINK ALERT: JOSS WHEDON IS ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE. ALL THINGS JOSS WHEDON ARE NOW OLDTHINK. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU. RESET.
Why yes, people tend to re-evaluate media made by abusers when their history of abuse comes out. What confuses me is, after everything that has come out about his abusiveness, why you would defend him.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:42 AM on August 19, 2023 [20 favorites]
Why yes, people tend to re-evaluate media made by abusers when their history of abuse comes out. What confuses me is, after everything that has come out about his abusiveness, why you would defend him.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:42 AM on August 19, 2023 [20 favorites]
Obviously, this is just bad U.S. network decisions, which is fair enough for a U.S. magazine.
If we had to offer some for the UK, I'd start with (not ranked):
1) Putting and keeping the Black and White Minstrel show on air
2) Love Thy Neighbour, Curry and Chips and to save time several other racist comedies in the 60s/70s. Man, did UK ever love blackface until it really, really had no support left
3) Deciding to save money by wiping old video recordings, thus destroying the only copies of a whole range of TV content. Incredibly, this was still happening in the early 1990s, long after the VHS boom had shown there was value in old shows.
4) Almost anything to do with Jimmy Savile, but especially the decision to celebrate his life and career after he died, and to scrap a Newsnight item exposing his record of abuse.
5) Mini Pops
And a bonus: Churchill's People. A series of 26 dramas that was expected to be a high profile prestige hit but flopped badly due to low budgets, poor production decisions and a deeply outdated view of history.
I'm leaving out all of the poor editorial decisions made by BBC News over the years, or we'll be here all day.
posted by YoungStencil at 6:53 AM on August 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
If we had to offer some for the UK, I'd start with (not ranked):
1) Putting and keeping the Black and White Minstrel show on air
2) Love Thy Neighbour, Curry and Chips and to save time several other racist comedies in the 60s/70s. Man, did UK ever love blackface until it really, really had no support left
3) Deciding to save money by wiping old video recordings, thus destroying the only copies of a whole range of TV content. Incredibly, this was still happening in the early 1990s, long after the VHS boom had shown there was value in old shows.
4) Almost anything to do with Jimmy Savile, but especially the decision to celebrate his life and career after he died, and to scrap a Newsnight item exposing his record of abuse.
5) Mini Pops
And a bonus: Churchill's People. A series of 26 dramas that was expected to be a high profile prestige hit but flopped badly due to low budgets, poor production decisions and a deeply outdated view of history.
I'm leaving out all of the poor editorial decisions made by BBC News over the years, or we'll be here all day.
posted by YoungStencil at 6:53 AM on August 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
5) Mini Pops
Mini Pops was British?!? Is there anything awful your stupid empire isn't responsible for?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:20 AM on August 19, 2023
Mini Pops was British?!? Is there anything awful your stupid empire isn't responsible for?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:20 AM on August 19, 2023
bombastic lowercase pronouncements: “but! there was a pretty gap between when:Olbermann recently re-told a story about Joel Hyatt at Current TV bragging that he had saved $2,000 by not falling for the Neilson company's obvious scam of having a ratings package called, "Live + Divver. What the hell is divver?! You only use the live ratings in television. Everybody knows that!"
- people stopped watching tv on tv quite so much, and
- the folks making the decisions realized that people don't watch tv on tv quite so much these days, and that therefore the connection between nielsen ratings and actual viewership, tenuous as it may have been originally, was now entirely severed.”
"You mean, 'Live + DVR?'"
Anyway, point being, it would be super great if we could get these dinosaurs who stopped taking new information on board in the 20th century to stop running everything as if the conditions of the 20th century will be true in the future.
Solidarity with striking workers.
posted by ob1quixote at 7:28 AM on August 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
What confuses me is, after everything that has come out about his abusiveness, why you would defend him.
there's a difference between defending an individual who has done bad things and not choosing to outright dismiss their work. Or as Norm MacDonald said of Bill Cosby, "I would if I I could, but I can't take back the laughter."
posted by philip-random at 8:20 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
there's a difference between defending an individual who has done bad things and not choosing to outright dismiss their work. Or as Norm MacDonald said of Bill Cosby, "I would if I I could, but I can't take back the laughter."
posted by philip-random at 8:20 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
No mention of the Wilton North Report?
posted by Ideefixe at 8:33 AM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 8:33 AM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
there's a difference between defending an individual who has done bad things and not choosing to outright dismiss their work.
There's also a difference between outright dismissing someone's work and pointing out that one piece of their work was a commercial failure in multiple media so that's why you can't call not throwing more money at it a mistake.
posted by Etrigan at 8:51 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
There's also a difference between outright dismissing someone's work and pointing out that one piece of their work was a commercial failure in multiple media so that's why you can't call not throwing more money at it a mistake.
posted by Etrigan at 8:51 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
No "Pink Lady and Jeff"? This list is a fail.
As a Gen X-er, I can say that I enjoyed Pink Lady and Jeff* almost as much I enjoy Mark Evanier's stories about working on the show. The best being "My Larry Hagman Story".
*BTW, according to Evanier and others, the show was actually called "Pink Lady".
posted by Ranucci at 9:15 AM on August 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
As a Gen X-er, I can say that I enjoyed Pink Lady and Jeff* almost as much I enjoy Mark Evanier's stories about working on the show. The best being "My Larry Hagman Story".
*BTW, according to Evanier and others, the show was actually called "Pink Lady".
posted by Ranucci at 9:15 AM on August 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
Pantheon having a second season produced that will probably never see the light of day is the one I'm currently bitterest about. I'm also still not over Dead Like Me's disaster of a movie.
posted by signsofrain at 9:32 AM on August 19, 2023
posted by signsofrain at 9:32 AM on August 19, 2023
I always wondered what 30 Rock would have been like if Rachel Dratch had been one of the leads, as originally planned.
It was bad enough that Dratch was pushed aside at the last minute (though I generally like Jane Krakowski, not her doing). But using her as a bunch of weird-ass one-off side characters was such a reminder of how many bad cringe ideas would come out of SNL along with the few threads of gold. My solution: Dratch as the main or only woman working in the boyzone writers' room (leave Liz Lemon to do all sorts of other Lemony things, not like she was doing any actual writing anyway). Why the Scott Adsit (Pete) and Judah Friedlander (Frank) characters were given seven seasons of regular billing for delivering maybe three lines of dialogue every second show is beyond me. And about the only recurring woman writer with any lines was the French-Dutch one who half the time seemed to end up with her shirt off for some reason (great job on that one Tina). So nuke those three 'characters' and since they already had a bunch of snickering smug sexist privileged Ivy-League-grad men on staff, plenty of room to drop in Dratch as the voice calling out the abuse that she, Fey and many other women in comedy would have endured. And there should have been enough material about producing a struggling live-to-air comedy show, for christ's sake throttle back on all the extracurricular WaCkY! HiJiNkS!! especially all the Alec Baldwin shit, the hell was that all about
I am old enough that I watched Star Trek: The Next Generation as it came out, and found the first season so dire that I stopped watching after five episodes.
I think the worst aspect of early TNG was that after the success of the Star Trek movies plus the popularity of the original series in syndication and continued fan demand for a TV revival, Roddenberry tried to restart as if it were Season 4 of old Trek, seemingly ignoring what made the better movies (The Wrath of Khan, The Voyage Home) and the best episodes of seasons 1 and 2 so successful, and just not understanding why season 3 was so wretched. But as a number of people have pointed out above, the pressures of putting together a season of 20+ episodes on a tighter budget vs. today's more lavishly-funded Prestige-TV era series of 8 or 10 episodes a year would certainly lead to problems with quality and consistency; imagine if original Trek could have spread the 55 episodes of its first two seasons over 5 years ("its five-year mission..."!).
posted by hangashore at 9:52 AM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
It was bad enough that Dratch was pushed aside at the last minute (though I generally like Jane Krakowski, not her doing). But using her as a bunch of weird-ass one-off side characters was such a reminder of how many bad cringe ideas would come out of SNL along with the few threads of gold. My solution: Dratch as the main or only woman working in the boyzone writers' room (leave Liz Lemon to do all sorts of other Lemony things, not like she was doing any actual writing anyway). Why the Scott Adsit (Pete) and Judah Friedlander (Frank) characters were given seven seasons of regular billing for delivering maybe three lines of dialogue every second show is beyond me. And about the only recurring woman writer with any lines was the French-Dutch one who half the time seemed to end up with her shirt off for some reason (great job on that one Tina). So nuke those three 'characters' and since they already had a bunch of snickering smug sexist privileged Ivy-League-grad men on staff, plenty of room to drop in Dratch as the voice calling out the abuse that she, Fey and many other women in comedy would have endured. And there should have been enough material about producing a struggling live-to-air comedy show, for christ's sake throttle back on all the extracurricular WaCkY! HiJiNkS!! especially all the Alec Baldwin shit, the hell was that all about
I am old enough that I watched Star Trek: The Next Generation as it came out, and found the first season so dire that I stopped watching after five episodes.
I think the worst aspect of early TNG was that after the success of the Star Trek movies plus the popularity of the original series in syndication and continued fan demand for a TV revival, Roddenberry tried to restart as if it were Season 4 of old Trek, seemingly ignoring what made the better movies (The Wrath of Khan, The Voyage Home) and the best episodes of seasons 1 and 2 so successful, and just not understanding why season 3 was so wretched. But as a number of people have pointed out above, the pressures of putting together a season of 20+ episodes on a tighter budget vs. today's more lavishly-funded Prestige-TV era series of 8 or 10 episodes a year would certainly lead to problems with quality and consistency; imagine if original Trek could have spread the 55 episodes of its first two seasons over 5 years ("its five-year mission..."!).
posted by hangashore at 9:52 AM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
In other TV news: J. Fred Muggs is still alive.
posted by brachiopod at 10:03 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by brachiopod at 10:03 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds recently had a tremendous musical episode, and of course, that comes with the chorus (heh) of people who aren't into musicals complaining.
Well I for one love both musicals and SNW and I hated that episode, but I recognize I'm in the vanishingly small minority there and am glad other people enjoyed it, at least.
A lot of thoughts from this article and this thread, though:
1. I think we're indeed lucky that Star Trek only made it three seasons. I think it's becoming clearer and clearer in retrospect that Gene Roddenberry's vision for the franchise was both a blessing and a curse, something which the very best Trek has pushed against while still having to remain true to to some degree (See DS9, SNW, and Lower Decks, all of which do things that Roddenberry wouldn't have approved of but which maintain a spirit of idealism and cooperation that still makes room for, for instance, internal conflict. Letting TOS run to seven or eight seasons would have likely shown the limits of what the show could do under Roddenberry's greater degree of creative control, leaving it half-remembered as a campy relic rather than something that demanded continuation with showrunners with better story-sense at the helm.
2. Susan's death was a brilliant move for Seinfeld (though I'm also in the camp of not really finding it watchable these days. Hell, Newsradio is tough to watch these days and that was Seinfeld's secretly better little brother. But Newsradio trades the troubling presence of Michael Richards for Joe Rogan and Andy Dick, so...) Anyway, Susan's death, played purely for comedy, was shocking in its time, but that was the point. The show was at a crossroads, there was no way it was going to be able to move forward with a George & Susan Wedding Episode and beyond and still be what it was trying to be, so instead it pushed in the other direction, announcing just how cynical it was willing to go. That allowed the remaining seasons the freedom to go further in developing the sitcom form and interlocking A, B, & C stories and other experimental ideas. I'm sure it alienated some people, but the alternative was probably slow death and loss of integrity for the series, so I think that was the smart decision.
3. I love Freaks & Geeks. I'm glad Allison Jones gets a shout-out in the article because I did an FPP about her back in the day, such is her impressive resume once you know to look for her name. But the show was a tough sell, came out at a weird time for network marketing (it was, essentially, prestige TV on broadcast television, without the subversive hooks and antiheroes that helped shows like The Sopranos et al into water-cooler shows), it was difficult and more expensive to produce that you might expect (the period setting and large cast, etc.) and none of those actors were stars yet. That they would virtually all go on to some later degree of greater fame afterwards is a testament to Jones' eye for talent, but it did fuck-all for marketing the thing I'm sure. As I recall, it didn't really become a known cause célèbre until after the DVDs came out (which took a while because you really needed a company like Shout! Factory to be able to handle the massive amounts of music licensing involved) and so this is a huge case of 20/20 hindsight. I'm not even sure that the show could have found an audience if it had been given another season, because 2000 was simply a different time than 2005 or so (when the DVDs made their way around and people really learned what they had been missing.)
3. 30 Rock wouldn't have worked without Jane Krakowski as Jenna. Rachel Dratch is a very funny comedian, but the energy she brings to things just wouldn't have created nearly the same dynamic. It sucks that she got fucked out of what must seem like her "breakout" role (and I'm glad Fey still gave her the revolving door of bit characters to play throughout the first season) but honestly, without Krakowski I don't think 30 Rock would have become what it did at all.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:36 AM on August 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
Well I for one love both musicals and SNW and I hated that episode, but I recognize I'm in the vanishingly small minority there and am glad other people enjoyed it, at least.
A lot of thoughts from this article and this thread, though:
1. I think we're indeed lucky that Star Trek only made it three seasons. I think it's becoming clearer and clearer in retrospect that Gene Roddenberry's vision for the franchise was both a blessing and a curse, something which the very best Trek has pushed against while still having to remain true to to some degree (See DS9, SNW, and Lower Decks, all of which do things that Roddenberry wouldn't have approved of but which maintain a spirit of idealism and cooperation that still makes room for, for instance, internal conflict. Letting TOS run to seven or eight seasons would have likely shown the limits of what the show could do under Roddenberry's greater degree of creative control, leaving it half-remembered as a campy relic rather than something that demanded continuation with showrunners with better story-sense at the helm.
2. Susan's death was a brilliant move for Seinfeld (though I'm also in the camp of not really finding it watchable these days. Hell, Newsradio is tough to watch these days and that was Seinfeld's secretly better little brother. But Newsradio trades the troubling presence of Michael Richards for Joe Rogan and Andy Dick, so...) Anyway, Susan's death, played purely for comedy, was shocking in its time, but that was the point. The show was at a crossroads, there was no way it was going to be able to move forward with a George & Susan Wedding Episode and beyond and still be what it was trying to be, so instead it pushed in the other direction, announcing just how cynical it was willing to go. That allowed the remaining seasons the freedom to go further in developing the sitcom form and interlocking A, B, & C stories and other experimental ideas. I'm sure it alienated some people, but the alternative was probably slow death and loss of integrity for the series, so I think that was the smart decision.
3. I love Freaks & Geeks. I'm glad Allison Jones gets a shout-out in the article because I did an FPP about her back in the day, such is her impressive resume once you know to look for her name. But the show was a tough sell, came out at a weird time for network marketing (it was, essentially, prestige TV on broadcast television, without the subversive hooks and antiheroes that helped shows like The Sopranos et al into water-cooler shows), it was difficult and more expensive to produce that you might expect (the period setting and large cast, etc.) and none of those actors were stars yet. That they would virtually all go on to some later degree of greater fame afterwards is a testament to Jones' eye for talent, but it did fuck-all for marketing the thing I'm sure. As I recall, it didn't really become a known cause célèbre until after the DVDs came out (which took a while because you really needed a company like Shout! Factory to be able to handle the massive amounts of music licensing involved) and so this is a huge case of 20/20 hindsight. I'm not even sure that the show could have found an audience if it had been given another season, because 2000 was simply a different time than 2005 or so (when the DVDs made their way around and people really learned what they had been missing.)
3. 30 Rock wouldn't have worked without Jane Krakowski as Jenna. Rachel Dratch is a very funny comedian, but the energy she brings to things just wouldn't have created nearly the same dynamic. It sucks that she got fucked out of what must seem like her "breakout" role (and I'm glad Fey still gave her the revolving door of bit characters to play throughout the first season) but honestly, without Krakowski I don't think 30 Rock would have become what it did at all.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:36 AM on August 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
I recall another episode that was really good that was apparently called "The Lost Art of Forehead Sweat"
This has become my favorite episode of the X-Files. Reggie Murgatroyd was played masterfully by Brian Huskey. The episode is a pop culture extravaganza that explored the Mandela effect as well as inserting Reggie into previous episodes, following Reggie's work history including working for the post office and waterboarding (all taking place in the same generic federal office building) and an appearance by a Trump like alien. This scene ends with Mulder exclaiming "We're not alone in the universe... but nobody likes us?"
The acapella version of the theme song done by The Warp Zone is just gilding this particular pop culture lily.
posted by ensign_ricky at 10:54 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
This has become my favorite episode of the X-Files. Reggie Murgatroyd was played masterfully by Brian Huskey. The episode is a pop culture extravaganza that explored the Mandela effect as well as inserting Reggie into previous episodes, following Reggie's work history including working for the post office and waterboarding (all taking place in the same generic federal office building) and an appearance by a Trump like alien. This scene ends with Mulder exclaiming "We're not alone in the universe... but nobody likes us?"
The acapella version of the theme song done by The Warp Zone is just gilding this particular pop culture lily.
posted by ensign_ricky at 10:54 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
NEWTHINK ALERT: JOSS WHEDON IS ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE.
Hey now, I've been hating on Joss Whedon since Buffy the Vampire days. I mean Buffy was cool and all as a general thing but oh man Whedon soap opera spaghetti-code style script writing is just terrible and he triggered my creep radar even back then.
Ok, which one of you comedians just started playing L'Internationale?
posted by loquacious at 10:54 AM on August 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Hey now, I've been hating on Joss Whedon since Buffy the Vampire days. I mean Buffy was cool and all as a general thing but oh man Whedon soap opera spaghetti-code style script writing is just terrible and he triggered my creep radar even back then.
Ok, which one of you comedians just started playing L'Internationale?
posted by loquacious at 10:54 AM on August 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
(A surreal and pretty painful moment is when Suzanne Summers tried to interview Wire after they performed "Drill" on the Joan Rivers show. The look on Graham Lewis's face at 5:22 says it all).
Hey I still remember watching that moment back in 1987! Wire on TV? I thought it was pretty funny. Somewhat mismatched, but it didn't look like they were having a terrible time.
(I actually saw them live on that tour. Mostly recall that they had a total power blow-out during their big finale. And also that they hired a teenage Wire cover band to play their early material that they didn't perform anymore.)
posted by ovvl at 11:22 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Hey I still remember watching that moment back in 1987! Wire on TV? I thought it was pretty funny. Somewhat mismatched, but it didn't look like they were having a terrible time.
(I actually saw them live on that tour. Mostly recall that they had a total power blow-out during their big finale. And also that they hired a teenage Wire cover band to play their early material that they didn't perform anymore.)
posted by ovvl at 11:22 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ovvl: yeah, by that point they were probably used to...less-than-clued-in interviewers. Bummed that I never got to see the original four-piece live (heard about the cover band at the time. (Ex-Lion Tamers, right?). Seems like a Wire-ish thing to do).
And as much as 80's TV was a wasteland, it also gave us moments like the above, as well as Night Flight, Snub TV, Night Music, etc. (Not to mention carryovers like horror movies on Saturday nights and Summer Movie Marathons on non-affiliated stations).
posted by gtrwolf at 12:58 PM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
And as much as 80's TV was a wasteland, it also gave us moments like the above, as well as Night Flight, Snub TV, Night Music, etc. (Not to mention carryovers like horror movies on Saturday nights and Summer Movie Marathons on non-affiliated stations).
posted by gtrwolf at 12:58 PM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Was this writer trolling by lumping Star Trek and Gilligan's Island together? Gilligan's Island was one of those 1960's era shows like The Flying Nun and Mr. Ed where the gimmick was the entire show, and every episode was essentially interchangeable. There was no growth, no change. Forget three seasons, just watch three *episodes* and you'll have more than your fill of everything the show has to offer. Which, even nostalgically speaking, is depressingly meager. To the extent that there's anything that passes for humor, it largely falls under the "problematic in 2023" variety.
posted by xigxag at 1:05 PM on August 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by xigxag at 1:05 PM on August 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Gilligan's Island was one of those 1960's era shows like The Flying Nun and Mr. Ed where the gimmick was the entire show, and every episode was essentially interchangeable.
And yet it has made gajillions of dollars in syndication and merchandising over the next six decades, indicating that making more of those essentially interchangeable episodes might have been a good idea.
posted by Etrigan at 1:17 PM on August 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
And yet it has made gajillions of dollars in syndication and merchandising over the next six decades, indicating that making more of those essentially interchangeable episodes might have been a good idea.
posted by Etrigan at 1:17 PM on August 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Re: Arrested Development: I just got tired of these fucking people and their unrelenting moral-ethical-functional incompetence
It helps if you like dislikable characters (see also: Seinfeld, Succession).
posted by scratch at 3:40 PM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
It helps if you like dislikable characters (see also: Seinfeld, Succession).
posted by scratch at 3:40 PM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
eta:
Metafilter: I just got tired of these fucking people and their unrelenting moral-ethical-functional incompetence
posted by scratch at 3:44 PM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: I just got tired of these fucking people and their unrelenting moral-ethical-functional incompetence
posted by scratch at 3:44 PM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Gilligan's Island ... no growth, no change.
Well, the Professor was pretty busy inventing things (instead of fixing the boat)
posted by achrise at 4:21 PM on August 19, 2023
Well, the Professor was pretty busy inventing things (instead of fixing the boat)
posted by achrise at 4:21 PM on August 19, 2023
Netflix is known for killing LGBTQ+ content while spending millions to platform people like Transphobic Chappelle. A sampling of interesting shows that Netflix strangled, with notation when I'm aware the show has queer content:
The Get Down
Sense8 (Queer)
Disjointed
Everything Sucks! (Queer)
Seven Seconds
Tuca & Bertie
Daybreak (Queer)
Spinning Out (Queer)
AJ and the Queen (Super Queer)
Astronomy Club: The Sketch Show
I Am Not Okay with This (Queer)
GLOW (Just a crime against good television)
Grand Army (Queer)
Teenage Bounty Hunters (Queer)
Q-Force (Queer)
First Kill (Queer)
Warrior Nun (Queer)
Uncoupled (Queer)
Lockwood & Co (Yep, Queer.)
I'm not saying that all these shows are necessarily good or shouldn't have been cancelled. Covid also had a huge role in some of these decisions. But I've watched most of the list here, and wanted second seasons of most. There's literally about a hundred other shows Netflix axed, though many were obviously bad or had a multiple season run.
posted by Jacen at 5:02 PM on August 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
The Get Down
Sense8 (Queer)
Disjointed
Everything Sucks! (Queer)
Seven Seconds
Tuca & Bertie
Daybreak (Queer)
Spinning Out (Queer)
AJ and the Queen (Super Queer)
Astronomy Club: The Sketch Show
I Am Not Okay with This (Queer)
GLOW (Just a crime against good television)
Grand Army (Queer)
Teenage Bounty Hunters (Queer)
Q-Force (Queer)
First Kill (Queer)
Warrior Nun (Queer)
Uncoupled (Queer)
Lockwood & Co (Yep, Queer.)
I'm not saying that all these shows are necessarily good or shouldn't have been cancelled. Covid also had a huge role in some of these decisions. But I've watched most of the list here, and wanted second seasons of most. There's literally about a hundred other shows Netflix axed, though many were obviously bad or had a multiple season run.
posted by Jacen at 5:02 PM on August 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
NoxAeternum, you tend to miss the point of my comments like *WHOOSH* totally goes right by you. after everything that has come out about his abusiveness, why you would defend him... where did you even get the idea that I'm defending him? I don't even know what he's accused of (and don't really care). The whole point of my comment was seeing 'Firefly' and knowing that Metafilter now hates Joss Whedon and therefore everything he has ever done and predicting the next few pages of comments. My comment was about Metafilter and had nothing actually to do about Joss Whedon or 'Firefly'. You missed the entire point of the comment, maybe you should just ignore me from now on because it's not the first time you've just totally missed the point of my comment and read something into it that was never there in the first place.
posted by zengargoyle at 5:47 AM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by zengargoyle at 5:47 AM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
I certainly read that comment the same way - if you attack people for no longer liking someone who was found to be abusive, it ends up being pretty indistinguishable from defending the abuser.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:33 AM on August 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 6:33 AM on August 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
You assume I have detailed knowledge of the details, I don't. Your assumptions that I know every thing you know or accept as true has colored your judgement. One should not hoist their knowledge of whatever sort upon others and judge them. I can not really do anything about your misunderstanding of my comment. Fact of life, there will always be people who don't understand what you are saying. And those who can't even understand after explanation.
posted by zengargoyle at 7:10 AM on August 20, 2023
posted by zengargoyle at 7:10 AM on August 20, 2023
where did you even get the idea that I'm defending him?
Because you're using the same sort of language his defenders use. Which is why your "I don't know or care what he did" argument isn't the defense you think it is, because if you had taken the time to actually read up on his behavior of abuse and how the usual suspects protect him, you would have realized your trite Newspeak comment was going to land very differently than you had planned. Also, trying to snark about how Whedon is persona non grata here without understanding why was never going to be a good look for you, because all it does is make you look unaware.
So no, your point, much as it was, didn't go over my head, as I got what you were trying to say with it. My point is that because you didn't understand what you were commenting on, what actually happened was you put your ass out for all and sundry to witness with a display that was indistinguishable from people who are actively defending his abuse. In the future, you should read up on what happened if you don't want your ignorance to get called out.
You assume I have detailed knowledge of the details, I don't.
Ignorance is not a defense. If people think you're defending an abuser because you're using the language their defenders are using - that's on your head, not ours.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:17 AM on August 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
Because you're using the same sort of language his defenders use. Which is why your "I don't know or care what he did" argument isn't the defense you think it is, because if you had taken the time to actually read up on his behavior of abuse and how the usual suspects protect him, you would have realized your trite Newspeak comment was going to land very differently than you had planned. Also, trying to snark about how Whedon is persona non grata here without understanding why was never going to be a good look for you, because all it does is make you look unaware.
So no, your point, much as it was, didn't go over my head, as I got what you were trying to say with it. My point is that because you didn't understand what you were commenting on, what actually happened was you put your ass out for all and sundry to witness with a display that was indistinguishable from people who are actively defending his abuse. In the future, you should read up on what happened if you don't want your ignorance to get called out.
You assume I have detailed knowledge of the details, I don't.
Ignorance is not a defense. If people think you're defending an abuser because you're using the language their defenders are using - that's on your head, not ours.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:17 AM on August 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
If you want to play God (or whatever all knowing Deity) and keep tabs on every person on this planet so you can feel self righteous in your judgement and casting stones... that's on you and you are welcome to it. I learned long ago to not have some internal shit list and concern myself with god damn fucking random TV personalities of all things. If you want to have the big 'ole list of persona non gratis that and a detailed history of why you hate them and why everyone else in the world should also know and should follow your lead.... Feel free to go ahead and do that. I don't want that for myself, I don't want to sit in judgement of others. You can have it, it's all yours, hate all you want for whatever reason you want. I refuse to participate in that behavior. I am not special or worthy or in any place to sit in judgement. It's all yours and you're welcome to it.
posted by zengargoyle at 7:40 AM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by zengargoyle at 7:40 AM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Don't you hate it when you comment on something and people assume you actually know the first thing about whatever you commented on?
posted by signal at 7:43 AM on August 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by signal at 7:43 AM on August 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
Nah, I know the first thing... Metafilter hates Joss Whedon. The rest follows naturally because it's the same old everybody has skeletons in the closet if you dig deep enough and does that negate their creative output that may or may not be that bad. It's a totally predictable Metafilter argument from the first mention of 'Firefly'. I'm sure that everybody that I enjoyed something here of there from has some flaw. It's call being human and hate is not the answer. So no, I don't get all mad and hateful when a comment is misunderstood. I practice not harboring hate. I'm not perfect, but it's the practice of not falling into judgement of others that is key. I have no desire to know seedy details about everybody in the whole world or to pick which ones I should know seedy details about. Not my job, I have plenty of other things to fill my mind with. If anything I find the whole thing amusing about how some people are actually so invested in their hate lists an how much life they spend on the maintenance of such. I mostly don't have the time for that sort of self inflicted mental torture.
posted by zengargoyle at 8:08 AM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by zengargoyle at 8:08 AM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
So, just to be clear, hating on the people here, who you are regularly in conversation with: totally fine. Hating on rich Hollywood white dude with history of abusive behaviour: not acceptable.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:13 AM on August 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 8:13 AM on August 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
Again, why do you think I hate on anyone here when I have professed that I do my best to not hate on anyone anywhere. Some people will not get my comment, some might not even get my responses, and here you are with accusing me of "hating on the people here, who you are regularly in conversation with: totally fine". I don't know what part you are missing. You are now accusing me of hating people that I have even less reason to hate than rich and famous or people that I actually know. That's some sort of projection. I mostly hate this one guy I knew once who had '666' tattooed on his forehead that I believe was involved in a couple of heroin overdose deaths and I know had one girl strung out handcuffed out on the balcony.... Nobody here on Metafilter even comes close to my skeleton in the closet very short list of hated people.
I don't hate anybody on Metafilter, I just think you still miss or over interpret an observation that as soon as 'Firefly' was mentioned the future was predictable. And that's *all* I ever meant. Everything else is just "sorry, you didn't get the gist of my comment and came up with something else" wrong. Par for the course, c'est la vie. If you don't understand by now, I give up.
posted by zengargoyle at 8:37 AM on August 20, 2023
I don't hate anybody on Metafilter, I just think you still miss or over interpret an observation that as soon as 'Firefly' was mentioned the future was predictable. And that's *all* I ever meant. Everything else is just "sorry, you didn't get the gist of my comment and came up with something else" wrong. Par for the course, c'est la vie. If you don't understand by now, I give up.
posted by zengargoyle at 8:37 AM on August 20, 2023
Teenaged Bounty Hunters definitely deserved another season.
There's an endless parade of bad Today show personnel decisions, but letting Tamron Hall go in favor of Megyn Kelly will always piss me off.
Pitch deserved another season; seems like the already truncated second season of A League of Their Own is getting lost to the strike (which I wholeheartedly support, don't get me wrong); someone make me a long running women's baseball series. I would also accept a NWSL or WNBA based workplace comedy or dramedy.
posted by the primroses were over at 8:50 AM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
There's an endless parade of bad Today show personnel decisions, but letting Tamron Hall go in favor of Megyn Kelly will always piss me off.
Pitch deserved another season; seems like the already truncated second season of A League of Their Own is getting lost to the strike (which I wholeheartedly support, don't get me wrong); someone make me a long running women's baseball series. I would also accept a NWSL or WNBA based workplace comedy or dramedy.
posted by the primroses were over at 8:50 AM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Let me just say this about "Firefly".
"River the Reaver Slayer" was a good enough idea, and if he could have held off the reveal that it's all just "Buffy -- IN SPACE!" for a few seasons, that would have been cool, but really, the film covered every idea that theme could carry, we have closure, and there's no real reason to ever revisit it again.
posted by mikelieman at 8:57 AM on August 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
"River the Reaver Slayer" was a good enough idea, and if he could have held off the reveal that it's all just "Buffy -- IN SPACE!" for a few seasons, that would have been cool, but really, the film covered every idea that theme could carry, we have closure, and there's no real reason to ever revisit it again.
posted by mikelieman at 8:57 AM on August 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Agreed. Mostly watching 'Firefly' on DVD in order and then 'Serenity' is a pretty decent romp of a bit of space cowboy and core system high tech and dark looming secret tied up in a nice bundle. Back when I watched a bunch of anime, that was a bit of a favorite was a 12 episode something that actually had beginning, middle, end, and *didn't* go on forever as long as it was still profit and then ended badly. A short done story was the best.
To hearken back to way earlier, some don't know the 70's and early 80' (and even earlier for the really olds of Metafilter) when TV was pre-even-cable and there was only the three major channels (CBS, NBC, ABC) and probably a PBS and if you were lucky one or two local UHF townies being stupid on TV channels to choose from. Channel surfing was limited to maybe 4 or 5 at most unless you were in a big urban city and you might have had to fool around with the antennae on your TV or rooftop to even get those. It was paltry pickings. Everybody watched the same damn things because that' s all that there was. Then we got cable and 50 channels of the same old shit most likely depending on which channels your local cable company carried and how much they charged for them and even the HBO/Cinemax/Showtime premium movie channels and such and MTV actually played music videos (oh my!). Those were the days.
I was privileged enough that my (divorced family) father had been a radio engineer for the US Air Force and then the QA engineer/numbers/calculators/computers guy for a steel fabrication plant. He was in to shortwave radio and things like that and decided to install a satellite dish instead of cable. Big like 10' across thing. It was the sweet spot in satellite TV before the powers that be started encrypting everything. So the satellite TV guide was this monthly giant 8-1/2x11x2" listing of everything that you could find up in the sky. Back then, TV satellites were basically terribly dumb devices, they just had an antenna that received signals and then they just shifted those frequencies and used another antenna to blast them back to earth. This lead to the famous 'take over a channel for a weird message' sort of hack because all you needed was a big and powerful enough antenna to point in the right direction and drown out the intended signal and the satellite would just blindly re-transmit it to the visible world.
But you had maybe a dozen or so satellites that you could point the dish to from your location, and each had about 20 or 30 channels. Some were live feeds from various places, but some were bulk feeds. Those were the best. One afternoon and you get the whole months worth of your favorite program without commercials (just some beeps where they would go) and you already know what's going to be on over the air local TV for the next month (spoilers!). Cheating at Jeapordy because you've already seen it.... :P Watching four hours of Star Trek reruns at once...
Where was I... Oh yeah, people who grew up with cable or streaming have no concept of the back when *everybody* watched the same things because that was all that there was. They get to pick and choose in a way that we couldn't.
endless parade of bad Today show personnel
All I can say was that in the early-ish 90's when ABC started "World News Now" at like 2 or 3 A.M. after channels had gone to sign off and test patterns and before the 5 a.m. early news.... Those people in the way wee hours of the morning were psycho crazy and goofy as fuck and didn't give a damn because the execs weren't awake yet and the audience was fucking late shift workers who were up at 2 a.m. They did shit that would never get a pass on even a dead of morning news show nowadays. That's another sort of TV nostalgia that I miss today, nowadays utterly pales even at 2 a.m. to what they got away with in the early 90's because "who's watching anyways".
Sigh, there was a time when you could turn a few knobs and get hundreds of channels for free from about halfway around the world. *Early* a.m. news used to be hilariously goofy, the best TV shows are mostly planned one or two season complete stories (dragging things out with no end in sight until the money runs out makes for crappy TV) mostly even Stargate and Farscape sorta went a bit too long even if still mostly enjoyable.
posted by zengargoyle at 10:06 AM on August 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
To hearken back to way earlier, some don't know the 70's and early 80' (and even earlier for the really olds of Metafilter) when TV was pre-even-cable and there was only the three major channels (CBS, NBC, ABC) and probably a PBS and if you were lucky one or two local UHF townies being stupid on TV channels to choose from. Channel surfing was limited to maybe 4 or 5 at most unless you were in a big urban city and you might have had to fool around with the antennae on your TV or rooftop to even get those. It was paltry pickings. Everybody watched the same damn things because that' s all that there was. Then we got cable and 50 channels of the same old shit most likely depending on which channels your local cable company carried and how much they charged for them and even the HBO/Cinemax/Showtime premium movie channels and such and MTV actually played music videos (oh my!). Those were the days.
I was privileged enough that my (divorced family) father had been a radio engineer for the US Air Force and then the QA engineer/numbers/calculators/computers guy for a steel fabrication plant. He was in to shortwave radio and things like that and decided to install a satellite dish instead of cable. Big like 10' across thing. It was the sweet spot in satellite TV before the powers that be started encrypting everything. So the satellite TV guide was this monthly giant 8-1/2x11x2" listing of everything that you could find up in the sky. Back then, TV satellites were basically terribly dumb devices, they just had an antenna that received signals and then they just shifted those frequencies and used another antenna to blast them back to earth. This lead to the famous 'take over a channel for a weird message' sort of hack because all you needed was a big and powerful enough antenna to point in the right direction and drown out the intended signal and the satellite would just blindly re-transmit it to the visible world.
But you had maybe a dozen or so satellites that you could point the dish to from your location, and each had about 20 or 30 channels. Some were live feeds from various places, but some were bulk feeds. Those were the best. One afternoon and you get the whole months worth of your favorite program without commercials (just some beeps where they would go) and you already know what's going to be on over the air local TV for the next month (spoilers!). Cheating at Jeapordy because you've already seen it.... :P Watching four hours of Star Trek reruns at once...
Where was I... Oh yeah, people who grew up with cable or streaming have no concept of the back when *everybody* watched the same things because that was all that there was. They get to pick and choose in a way that we couldn't.
endless parade of bad Today show personnel
All I can say was that in the early-ish 90's when ABC started "World News Now" at like 2 or 3 A.M. after channels had gone to sign off and test patterns and before the 5 a.m. early news.... Those people in the way wee hours of the morning were psycho crazy and goofy as fuck and didn't give a damn because the execs weren't awake yet and the audience was fucking late shift workers who were up at 2 a.m. They did shit that would never get a pass on even a dead of morning news show nowadays. That's another sort of TV nostalgia that I miss today, nowadays utterly pales even at 2 a.m. to what they got away with in the early 90's because "who's watching anyways".
Sigh, there was a time when you could turn a few knobs and get hundreds of channels for free from about halfway around the world. *Early* a.m. news used to be hilariously goofy, the best TV shows are mostly planned one or two season complete stories (dragging things out with no end in sight until the money runs out makes for crappy TV) mostly even Stargate and Farscape sorta went a bit too long even if still mostly enjoyable.
posted by zengargoyle at 10:06 AM on August 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Just going to pop in to say, let’s stop arguing with each other and derailing this thread. Moving forward, it would be good to consider what your comment is actually contributing to the intended discussion. Thanks.
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 11:07 AM on August 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 11:07 AM on August 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
There seems to be enough content here to justify another thread to allow everybody a chance to lament/recommend their favorite shows that were cancelled too early.
I'll plug Middleman. Though I'm struggling to come up with a concise description, it feels like it's right up the average MeFite's wheelhouse. Smart, funny, and brimming with comic & SFF references. I don't know why the ABC Family channel picked it up, but it never really found its audience and they dropped it after 12 episodes.
Take 3 minutes to watch the opening scene of the first episode.
posted by cheshyre at 4:20 PM on August 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'll plug Middleman. Though I'm struggling to come up with a concise description, it feels like it's right up the average MeFite's wheelhouse. Smart, funny, and brimming with comic & SFF references. I don't know why the ABC Family channel picked it up, but it never really found its audience and they dropped it after 12 episodes.
Take 3 minutes to watch the opening scene of the first episode.
posted by cheshyre at 4:20 PM on August 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
Art Crawl!
posted by tavella at 10:07 AM on August 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by tavella at 10:07 AM on August 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oh lord, how do people hate that Armin Tanzarian episode so much?
I also feel the same way about the (first) Frank Grimes episode. I guess folks don't like episodes of The Simpsons that show the people of Springfield as really shitty, not just cartoonishly shitty?
(Like I personally hate the sentimentality at the end of the Jebidiah Springfield episode, though the mayor's sniper taking a shot at Lisa even after she backs down is a good little comment on it. But I think other fans actually dig it?)
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:30 AM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I also feel the same way about the (first) Frank Grimes episode. I guess folks don't like episodes of The Simpsons that show the people of Springfield as really shitty, not just cartoonishly shitty?
(Like I personally hate the sentimentality at the end of the Jebidiah Springfield episode, though the mayor's sniper taking a shot at Lisa even after she backs down is a good little comment on it. But I think other fans actually dig it?)
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:30 AM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Armin Tamzarian episode is weird as hell, but the Simpsons episode that rankles me is "That 90s Show." In that one, Homer, whom we watched for many years be confused and irritated by alternative rock ,is retconned into a grunge rocker.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:30 PM on August 21, 2023
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:30 PM on August 21, 2023
oh, my turn! I was VISCERALLY upset when they canceled Colony, though out of all the shows they canceled that should have stayed on air, they possibly pulled out the very best "okay we have 3 episodes left to wrap this up, let's actually TRY to wrap it up without boning the ending" conclusion I've ever seen.
You can still stream all 3 seasons with ads if you like, though Netflix pulled the series last year.
I swear to god, I feel like I'm the only person that watched that show. It was sooo timely, with its portrayal of Los Angelenos grappling with a sudden and very unwanted authoritarian regime in the aftermath of an alien invasion. Maybe a little TOO timely for some viewers, actually...
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:43 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
You can still stream all 3 seasons with ads if you like, though Netflix pulled the series last year.
I swear to god, I feel like I'm the only person that watched that show. It was sooo timely, with its portrayal of Los Angelenos grappling with a sudden and very unwanted authoritarian regime in the aftermath of an alien invasion. Maybe a little TOO timely for some viewers, actually...
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:43 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
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Bad for Fox I guess, but excellent decision for humanity - no way that show would have been as good as it was at a different network. Especially in the years it aired (1999-2007), HBO was fairly unique in terms of giving shows substantial budgets and creative freedom.
posted by coffeecat at 6:34 AM on August 18, 2023 [26 favorites]