What Happens to All the Stuff We Return?

August 20, 2023 9:42 AM

Online merchants changed the way we shop—and made “reverse logistics” into a booming new industry. (archive.today link)
posted by Etrigan (32 comments total)

This is fascinating! There is a submarket for everything:

"One of the most popular presenters at R.L.A. was Spencer Kieboom, a former major-league baseball player, whose company, Pollen Returns, uses underemployed rideshare and delivery drivers to pick up unwanted items, for free, at buyers’ homes, thereby sparing them the nuisance of schlepping things to UPS on their own."
posted by johnxlibris at 10:10 AM on August 20, 2023 [5 favorites]

That archive.ph link drops me into an unending loop of “I am not a robot” followed by “select all the busses” followed by “I am not a robot” followed by “select the traffic signals” followed by “I am not a robot” etc. etc. etc. Yeesh!
posted by Thorzdad at 10:11 AM on August 20, 2023 [17 favorites]

Anywho...One of the greatest developments in returns has been being able to return Amazon purchases at your local Kohls.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:14 AM on August 20, 2023 [3 favorites]

“Home Depot and Lowe’s let you return dead plants, for a year. You just have to be shameless enough to stand in line with the thing you killed.”

Alternately, the plant's already dead, and you just didn't know it at the time. It turns out that they're not always taking the best care of those plants at the big box stores, what a surprise.
posted by explosion at 10:16 AM on August 20, 2023 [14 favorites]

(Here's Spencer Kieboom's major-league baseball record, in case you were wondering like I was. He played much more recently than I would have figured from the article!)
posted by Ampersand692 at 10:23 AM on August 20, 2023

The Christmas Tree Shops have gone out of business but this weird store that sells returned products just moved into the same plaza. I went in on $2 day and it was like the worst, picked over thrift shop or garage sale, but in a plaza. The returns left were weird dresses and parts of electronics, largely, although the chaos sorting means I can't really recall many of the items. It was so, so depressing.
posted by cobaltnine at 10:24 AM on August 20, 2023 [13 favorites]

The plant isn't already dead, it's probably pining for the fjords.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:26 AM on August 20, 2023 [24 favorites]

The article starts with a lot of stuff I mostly knew, but the second half gets more interesting; read on, because he's found some interesting people/companies with specific niches in the post-returns industry.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:39 AM on August 20, 2023 [7 favorites]

That archive.ph link drops me into an unending loop of “I am not a robot” followed by “select all the busses” followed by “I am not a robot” followed by “select the traffic signals” followed by “I am not a robot” etc. etc. etc. Yeesh!

I've been having the same problem with archive.ph lately!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:47 AM on August 20, 2023 [5 favorites]

That archive.ph link drops me into an unending loop of “I am not a robot”
This happened to me on Firefox, but Chrome worked correctly
posted by hexatron at 11:12 AM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

The article starts with a lot of stuff I mostly knew, but the second half gets more interesting; read on, because he's found some interesting people/companies with specific niches in the post-returns industry.

I was interested in the person who buys returned air conditioners by the truckload, fixes them up and sells them locally. I've bought two mobility scooters--one for me, one for one of my adult children--from a local person who buys used ones, makes sure everything works, installs new batteries, cleans them up nice, and then sells them for about half what they cost new. It's a great deal because even when insurance will cover a mobility scooter, they cover certain models that aren't necessarily what you need.

My current scooter is a portable that takes apart into four pieces (a Pride Go-Go Elite, for those keeping score). I now commute using my scooter and the local busses, and I will need a more durable, heavier scooter with lights, four wheels, bigger wheels, for when winter comes and I will be scooting at times when the sun isn't out, and will also have to deal with slush in intersections and badly-plowed sidewalks. My insurance will not buy me the kind of scooter I need, which costs anywhere from $3000 and up, so I'm saving for a refurb from my local reseller.

I felt like my scooter person and the a/c person are in something like the same business, making things useful again, finding them homes, and helping people with limited resources get the things that make their lives easier.
posted by Well I never at 11:44 AM on August 20, 2023 [26 favorites]

[i too have problems with captcha loops making archive.ph inaccessible in FireFox]
posted by glonous keming at 11:52 AM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

Also having the archive issue.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:04 PM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

back in the day, Sears outlet was the bomb.
posted by clavdivs at 12:53 PM on August 20, 2023 [3 favorites]

[An appliance repairman] also told us that the deadliest enemy of electronic components is heat, and that, as a consequence, we should never self-clean an oven, never install two ovens side by side, and definitely never simultaneously self-clean two ovens that had been installed side by side—three valuable lessons that we learned the hard way.

*snerk*

I've worked for two different companies mentioned in the article, in two different capacities (frontline consumer returns and reverse logistics), and I've repaired my own appliances multiple times. Our LG washer/dryer (a single unit with a single drum and a condensing drying cycle) has an Achilles heel of a drain pump, and I've replaced it so many times I can now do the repair without consulting a guide. I also replaced the circulation pump in our Bosch dishwasher, which had an integrated heating unit that failed. That was an entertaining repair because I couldn't find a repair manual or video guide, so I just had to find my way to the part in such a way I'd still be able to reassemble the dishwasher afterward. The trick was that there's an assembly in one corner with a bunch of different wiring harnesses clipped into it, and you can literally unclip the assembly itself (in one piece) in order to move it out of the way with the wires still connected, at which point you can reach the part you need to replace.

At retail we got a lot of stuff returned to us that just wasn't broken. When I had the time, and when the customer actually seemed like they'd prefer to be able to use the thing they'd bought in the first place rather than starting over, I'd try to get them to the point they could just take it back home. But the company's priority was not on that kind of interaction and it could be really draining if the reason somebody couldn't get a thing to work wasn't that it was broken, but really was just too complicated for them. A lot of stuff just got fed into palletized lots that probably resold for cents on the dollar if they didn't end up in a landfill somewhere. But then I'd go home and see all the #DefectiveByDesign stuff that showed up on Twitter, and I'd have a hard time with the idea you can even try to interrupt the cycle. So much crap just isn't made in a way it can be repaired, and in a business where you want to be able to move onto the next customer as quickly as possible, you just toss stuff in the bin even if it's not actually broken. It's insane.

So what I'm saying is that my favorite person in the article was this guy:

“There’s a guy in a small town in Alabama who buys trailer loads of returned air-conditioners from us,” he said. “When I Googled his property address, I saw that it’s a double-wide on four acres. He buys A.C.s that we can’t refurbish economically, then tinkers with them and sells them locally. It’s stuff I’m never going to touch, but he makes a living at it.”

That guy's a hero both for saving stuff from the landfill and for providing it to people who otherwise couldn't afford an air conditioner, which is a necessity in a place like Alabama.
posted by fedward at 1:39 PM on August 20, 2023 [37 favorites]

This article is three years old now, but I felt sure this report and others confirmed that most Amazon returns end up as landfill regardless of the state of the item. ?
posted by Faintdreams at 2:05 PM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

The AC repair guy is a hero, we ended up tossing all the AC units that came with the house because they had so much mold in them... The new ones we bought you can't even get into the fins to clean without taking the whole thing apart and I imagine a lot of AC units get tossed for similar reasons.
posted by subdee at 2:11 PM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

Once, he got our dishwasher working again by taking apart the grinder and removing what he guessed were broken pieces of ceramic. (They were actually coyote teeth. Long story.)

Uhhhhh...
posted by BrashTech at 2:18 PM on August 20, 2023 [14 favorites]

first, be Wile E from the very beginning...
posted by glonous keming at 2:26 PM on August 20, 2023 [19 favorites]

Such an excellent article. Thanks so much for posting, Etrigan. I probably would not have run across this if you hadn’t posted it here.
posted by hilaryjade at 2:36 PM on August 20, 2023

“A really good partner of ours does over fifty per cent of all the refurbishing of HP consumer printers in the U.S.,” Adamson said. “On all the newer printers, the only connection option is Wi-Fi, so when they refurb them they include a printer cable. Problem solved.”

This is especially funny given this post that's been going around my feeds, displaying a cheap HP printer that's trying to force you to only connect via Wi-Fi.... without having bothered to remove the USB port. So the company just slapped a sticker with a symbol for Wi-Fi and a symbol for USB over which they've superimposed a NO symbol over the USB port. There's a perfectly good port back there, but they (probably correctly) assume that the sticker will scare folks into not using it, especially if they don't include a cable.
posted by sciatrix at 2:38 PM on August 20, 2023 [4 favorites]

Had a friend who was a liquidator.
Interesting job. Lot of stuff here rings true.
Definitly pennies on the dollar.

He would buy a truckload of whatever somewhere in the US Have it start on the journey to Canada. Most of the time he would have it sold before it reached the border. Just have the truck turn around and drive to a new destination.
I remember when he had tens and tens of thousands of lipsticks .
Sold that before it reached his warehouse.
All that sunscreen that we don't use in Canada because winter. He would buy it and sell to a US buyer.

He would buy anything as long as it was cheap.
He was starting to get involved with some large retailers but there were always conditions.
Sometimes too onerous. Like items must be repackaged, labels removed etc. etc.
This was a retailers house brand.
I remember him experimenting with a lot of goods. Seeing how long it would take, how much it would cost
There could other geographical restrictions as well.

He saw a ton of very expensive sunglasses get crushed. They didn't want them sold at a discount. Might cheapen the brand.
posted by yyz at 2:40 PM on August 20, 2023 [6 favorites]

Mostly related, I buy a lot of kids stuff from kohl's online (get a kohl's card!), bc crazy sales/clearance and cute stuff, but can't remember if I've ever shopped in store. And now I know why. There's one very close to my home, randomly.
Today, I returned (in person) a pair of too small toddler shoes that I bought online. Easy peasy, everyone was delightful. And wanted to spend some expiring "kohl's cash". THERE'S NOTHING IN THE FUCKING STORE.
posted by atomicstone at 3:44 PM on August 20, 2023 [4 favorites]

It’s awkward being a small retailer and managing the expectations around return policies and shipping. And in Los Angeles, we have to be wary of the bottom-tier productions that see a flexible return policy as a generous rental program. Hard to celebrate a sale that made your day when you just know it’s going to come back after the weekend and tank a different day.
posted by jimw at 4:01 PM on August 20, 2023 [7 favorites]

I feel sorry for the poor schmuck who is going to end up with the counterfeit Sony MDR-7506 headphones that I'm sending right back to Amazon/Woot. It took a total of ten seconds to realize that they weren't authentic. They didn't even bother getting the "Professional" stickers on the sides lined up properly. This is apparently a thing these days.
posted by mikelieman at 5:27 AM on August 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

"Returns Auctions"

So - myself, I have only discovered these over the last 2-years. My first 3d-printer... $45, sure it needed some tuning (and had some scratches), it was a return. (My 2nd as well, $150 for what is normally a $900 printer... in perfect condition, unopened box).

My key success factors - which are probably the same as any other auction include;
- Place items in your "watch list".
- Research the items, and make a note of their retail price.
- Review all photos of the item (I recently got burned by only looking at the first photo)
- Set a maximum, wait until 10m before bidding - and do not get carried-away with the "heat of the moment".
- Recently, the local site I use raised their minimum returnable amount to $20 - so, if it is electronics, then I won't bid under $20.
- OTOH, look for "final sale" items... I got a desk with missing parts for $2 - I knew that, and then re-used the parts for other projects...
- Patience - there will always be another in the future, if bidding goes high this auction...
posted by rozcakj at 6:08 AM on August 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

I used to buy a lot of open-box items from Amazon, but the quality of their inspections has become horrible in the last year. Just broken things. Electronics that don't power on. They just don't care anymore.
posted by mattgriffin at 6:11 AM on August 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

I mean if you worked for amamazon would you give a shit?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:15 AM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

I feel sorry for the poor schmuck who is going to end up with the counterfeit Sony MDR-7506 headphones that I'm sending right back to Amazon/Woot [...] This is apparently a thing these days.

Yeah, I assume basically all pro/prosumer audio gear on Amazon is counterfeit these days, based on reports like these.

I did buy a used Sennheiser shotgun mic off of Reverb recently, but it was a model that wouldn't be worth counterfeiting (uses T-power instead of 48v phantom power), so I was sure it was real. But I wouldn't buy the in-production model of that mic, or any other commonly-counterfeited item, from anywhere but a real music retailer.

“energy recovery,” a euphemism for burning in a furnace.

I gotta figure out how to start using this in conversation.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:59 AM on August 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

Just in general the emphasis on repairability at the end is massively important. It's so frustrating as a consumer because especially with tech but just in general, products aren't sold with the idea that you might want to take them apart, clean them, and re-assemble them very often. I've really appreciated those that are and try to seek out the manufacturers again. (In particular, I've been watching EU-made cell phones with replaceable batteries with quite a bit of envy for some years now.) You'd think the 'buy it for life' movement would make this easier to find, but I mostly see items tagged with that which are little trinkety things you really don't need.

I also wish it was just easier to find refurbished and repaired items. Like mattgriffin, I don't buy anything box-opened on amazon these days, but I'd love to find a reputable refurbisher or repair-person to buy things from. We do a lot of haunting the buy-nothing, but--you know, the repair labor isn't always so easy to find.
posted by sciatrix at 10:45 AM on August 21, 2023

One of my improv teammates works for an Amazon sub-contractor that handles their returns. She tends to be on one type thing for awhile (watches, game consoles, etc.). She has horror stories of the terrible nature of things people trying to return or people returning scams. She will also compliment people on their choice of electronics ("Those must be great, I never have people attempting to return them").
posted by mmascolino at 11:49 AM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

I bought a returned rototiller from amazon warehouse. It arrived absolutely caked in thick mud and the cable had been cut right through and duct taped back together. It was sold as "like new". That was the last time I bought from amazon warehouse.
posted by hazyjane at 12:21 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]