Kansas man upset he can’t buy mini Toyotas ‘like the Taliban and ISIS.’
September 16, 2023 9:30 PM Subscribe
The Taliban has fresher trucks than us. The Honda Fit is dead. U can’t find a sauced-out 2-door to save your life. How did we get here??
What happened to reasonably sized pickup trucks in the USA? A valid question from Dion Lefler in the Wichita Eagle.
As it turns out, President LBJ introduced the so-called Chicken Tax in 1964 (previously) in response to European tariffs on American chicken, starting a 25% tariff on light trucks that persists to this day. Car companies circumvent the Chicken Tax in the USA in all sorts of wacky, wasteful ways, such as Ford shipping "passenger vehicles" to the US, then removing, shredding, and recycling the rear windows, seats, and seatbelts to turn the vehicle back into a truck.
But would repealing a 1964 tariff really reverse modern American tastes for massive F150s and SUVs? Blackbird Spyplane, a meme-laden fashion/culture blog, investigate further, asserting that the market is systematically eradicating not just small pickups but ALL swagged-out small vehicles, citing American pathologies of needing bigger vehicles for social status.
The beautiful & blessed Honda Fit is dead in America. Discontinued as of the 2022 model. R.I.P.
Aside: why is there some stereotypical blond california surfer dude in that picture of ~2003 Yemen wartime Toyota trucks? Continuing western trends of fetishizing wartime aesthetics, Chas Smith (is that his real name?) bizarrely documents his surf adventure through Yemen at the beginning of the War on Terror.
What happened to reasonably sized pickup trucks in the USA? A valid question from Dion Lefler in the Wichita Eagle.
As it turns out, President LBJ introduced the so-called Chicken Tax in 1964 (previously) in response to European tariffs on American chicken, starting a 25% tariff on light trucks that persists to this day. Car companies circumvent the Chicken Tax in the USA in all sorts of wacky, wasteful ways, such as Ford shipping "passenger vehicles" to the US, then removing, shredding, and recycling the rear windows, seats, and seatbelts to turn the vehicle back into a truck.
But would repealing a 1964 tariff really reverse modern American tastes for massive F150s and SUVs? Blackbird Spyplane, a meme-laden fashion/culture blog, investigate further, asserting that the market is systematically eradicating not just small pickups but ALL swagged-out small vehicles, citing American pathologies of needing bigger vehicles for social status.
The beautiful & blessed Honda Fit is dead in America. Discontinued as of the 2022 model. R.I.P.
Aside: why is there some stereotypical blond california surfer dude in that picture of ~2003 Yemen wartime Toyota trucks? Continuing western trends of fetishizing wartime aesthetics, Chas Smith (is that his real name?) bizarrely documents his surf adventure through Yemen at the beginning of the War on Terror.
LOL I'd never heard of this site before (apparently tho it's A Thing™), but it reads like if Herbert Kornfeld had a much chiller cousin writing about popular culture, which I appreciate greatly.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 10:17 PM on September 16, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 10:17 PM on September 16, 2023 [11 favorites]
I loved my Fit sooooo much. She was taken away before her time.
R.I.P. Suzy, Papa will always love you.
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:44 PM on September 16, 2023 [12 favorites]
R.I.P. Suzy, Papa will always love you.
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:44 PM on September 16, 2023 [12 favorites]
President LBJ introduced the so-called Chicken Tax in 1964 ... starting a 25% tariff on light trucks
And I must note the specific import being targeted then was the Volkswagen Type 2 Single Cab (although the link details a '61) which is why that model of the VW 'microbus' is so rare in the US.
posted by Rash at 11:06 PM on September 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
And I must note the specific import being targeted then was the Volkswagen Type 2 Single Cab (although the link details a '61) which is why that model of the VW 'microbus' is so rare in the US.
posted by Rash at 11:06 PM on September 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Every time I visit the states I'm astonished at the absurdity of the car market there, and have conversations with friends and family who pine for the pickups of my youth that allowed you to load the bed without lifting over your nipples. Modern American trucks are grotesque. The small Ford hybrid unibody model sounds like a great option but I saw hardly any on the road back in June.
The ISIS Toyota the Kansas guy wants is a Landcruiser 79. They make them still in Portugal but no longer for the European market. Some arms dealer a few years ago was buying them and replacing the body with something armored, and I remember reading about a guy in Colorado getting those bodies and putting them on the chassis of 25 year old Landcruiser troop carriers brought into the states legally, but my Google-Foo is not finding a link.
The other thing that drives me crazy about trucks today is that nobody makes a simple extended cab without seats. Used to be you could stash tools and ropes and gloves and crap back there where they were out of the weather and wouldn't get stolen. Now what, you're supposed to put all that shit on the back seat? Oh right, the bed is so short now that you can't do any real work with the truck anyway.
posted by St. Oops at 11:07 PM on September 16, 2023 [17 favorites]
The ISIS Toyota the Kansas guy wants is a Landcruiser 79. They make them still in Portugal but no longer for the European market. Some arms dealer a few years ago was buying them and replacing the body with something armored, and I remember reading about a guy in Colorado getting those bodies and putting them on the chassis of 25 year old Landcruiser troop carriers brought into the states legally, but my Google-Foo is not finding a link.
The other thing that drives me crazy about trucks today is that nobody makes a simple extended cab without seats. Used to be you could stash tools and ropes and gloves and crap back there where they were out of the weather and wouldn't get stolen. Now what, you're supposed to put all that shit on the back seat? Oh right, the bed is so short now that you can't do any real work with the truck anyway.
posted by St. Oops at 11:07 PM on September 16, 2023 [17 favorites]
In good news for small truck lovers Toyota has hinted a putting out a truck version of the Corolla Cross to compete with other current-smallest pickup the Ford Maverick. Good luck finding one of those under msrp.
I'm still holding out for someone to make a US ute again.
posted by JauntyFedora at 11:11 PM on September 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm still holding out for someone to make a US ute again.
posted by JauntyFedora at 11:11 PM on September 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Heh:
Let’s close things out with the (flawed but fun & squarely in our wheelhouse) “cars as clothes” metaphor. Pushing a car ~5x bigger than you need is not like wearing a swaggily roomy suit of the kind we f**k with heavy here at BBSP. O no! It’s like a child playing dress-up in a XXXL trench coat, sleeves dragging on the floor, while wearing clown shoes. It makes you look small and bozo-like as you take up too much space in a world that you navigate with zero grace.posted by migurski at 11:26 PM on September 16, 2023 [44 favorites]
Okay, I myself am an old at this point so what do I know, but in that first article... "mad" "props" "dope" "swag" "wack" "superior whip game"
A lot of that seems very "how do you do fellow kids" to me. Is all of that still current slang? It's a very interesting piece, but that stuff feels like it's been frozen in a block of ice for a bit.
posted by brundlefly at 12:07 AM on September 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
A lot of that seems very "how do you do fellow kids" to me. Is all of that still current slang? It's a very interesting piece, but that stuff feels like it's been frozen in a block of ice for a bit.
posted by brundlefly at 12:07 AM on September 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
I saw a smaller electric on a Chinese site, $5k. Handy looking, of course would cost $20k to ‘bring up’ to USA street legal.
posted by sammyo at 12:33 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by sammyo at 12:33 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Honda Fit, in NZ sold as City from 1982, was an amazing car, I've owned two (from 2ndHand) and driven both over 200,000km, very simple, efficient, very reliable - camshaft would fail around 150,000km, and if used coastal subframe would eventially rust irreparably.
Good on really terrible roads (like the tens of thousands of ks of metal and near-mud tracks we have in much of rural NZ) as they had approx. 3 inches more ground clearance than anything else.
For utes I simply don't know why Americans need anything bigger than a Ford Ranger [link to my imgur]. These Ford150's etc that people are importing here are usually a flag to avoid the owner like the plague as they're invariably as problematic as their vehicle.
posted by unearthed at 12:44 AM on September 17, 2023 [17 favorites]
Good on really terrible roads (like the tens of thousands of ks of metal and near-mud tracks we have in much of rural NZ) as they had approx. 3 inches more ground clearance than anything else.
For utes I simply don't know why Americans need anything bigger than a Ford Ranger [link to my imgur]. These Ford150's etc that people are importing here are usually a flag to avoid the owner like the plague as they're invariably as problematic as their vehicle.
posted by unearthed at 12:44 AM on September 17, 2023 [17 favorites]
For utes I simply don't know why Americans need anything bigger than a Ford Ranger
My former neighborhood in the US (DC/NoVA suburbs) was positively flooded with F150s and I can guarantee that 90+% of them have never once had a single item placed in their bed. No coincidence the area is also flooded with military and defense contractor types.
I've seen a surprising number of people importing F150s here to Sweden, between import costs, small parking spots and nearly $8/gal petrol it's kind of insane. Not to mention all the winter weather - a giant pick-up with an empty bed seems like about the worst possible option for slick roads.
posted by photo guy at 1:30 AM on September 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
My former neighborhood in the US (DC/NoVA suburbs) was positively flooded with F150s and I can guarantee that 90+% of them have never once had a single item placed in their bed. No coincidence the area is also flooded with military and defense contractor types.
I've seen a surprising number of people importing F150s here to Sweden, between import costs, small parking spots and nearly $8/gal petrol it's kind of insane. Not to mention all the winter weather - a giant pick-up with an empty bed seems like about the worst possible option for slick roads.
posted by photo guy at 1:30 AM on September 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
What's the US situation with regards to compact vans? Over here, trucks are not common at all. People who want to have the option to haul stuff (or large dogs) around will generally get a van of some kind. Something like a Renault Kangoo is very very common and popular, as a commercial vehicle but also with families.
Some can be used with or without the rear seats, which makes them quite versatile. I'm under the impression that you can't get such cars easily in the US. Is that correct?
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:09 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Some can be used with or without the rear seats, which makes them quite versatile. I'm under the impression that you can't get such cars easily in the US. Is that correct?
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:09 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Our 2010 Fit is still humming along, at over 200k on the odometer. The interior has become a bit rough with use, but the car still drives wonderfully. It’s just the base model, but I am always surprised/impressed at the snappy, tight handling of the car.
I do wish the steering column was adjustable (the wheel sits a wee bit too high for me) but that’s a small quibble. It’s worth spending what it takes to keep the car running, just to keep that TARDIS-like ability to swallow cargo in the family.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:22 AM on September 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
I do wish the steering column was adjustable (the wheel sits a wee bit too high for me) but that’s a small quibble. It’s worth spending what it takes to keep the car running, just to keep that TARDIS-like ability to swallow cargo in the family.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:22 AM on September 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
Too-Ticky - Ford, Nissan, and Mercedes (at least) WERE selling smaller “city van” vehicles in the US (Ford Transit Connect was the one I owned and saw the most of). They were mostly going to tradespeople, and delivery businesses (lots of flower shops and caterers). Not sure how popular outside east coast cities but my Maine and New Hampshire relatives kept making fun of mine for being weird and small. I got rid of my Transit Connect for an eTransit (more space to haul dogs and electric) but I beat the hell out of my TC (including a partial roll over) and it would just not quit. With snow tires on in the winter, I would drive it up into the White Mountains at night in winter, sleep in the back and do sun rise hikes in the morning. Sold it for almost as much as I paid for it even after said roll over and putting 60k miles on it. I heard Ford is going to stop selling them in the US unfortunately. I think they’re undergoing a Kei truck style 2nd life for use as smaller adventure / Van Life Lite vehicles.
posted by youthenrage at 3:31 AM on September 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by youthenrage at 3:31 AM on September 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
I have an Elantra GT (that's a four door hatch), with all sorts of swagged features like leather seats and a sporty engine.
The last time I took it in for servicing, the mechanic gleefully pulled me aside to show me a feature he'd never seen before in any vehicle, at any level of luxury - an air conditioner vent in the glove compartment.
My little commuter pootler has a snack cooler.
So I hope to keep my car alive as long as possible, because I know the next one will be a behemoth without a snack cooler.
The US car market is just grim.
posted by champers at 3:42 AM on September 17, 2023 [12 favorites]
The last time I took it in for servicing, the mechanic gleefully pulled me aside to show me a feature he'd never seen before in any vehicle, at any level of luxury - an air conditioner vent in the glove compartment.
My little commuter pootler has a snack cooler.
So I hope to keep my car alive as long as possible, because I know the next one will be a behemoth without a snack cooler.
The US car market is just grim.
posted by champers at 3:42 AM on September 17, 2023 [12 favorites]
[the ghost of the Suzuki Brumby appears, about to give you some harsh lessons of utes past, utes present, and utes future]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:49 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:49 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm shopping around for a new old pick-up, and I've decided that any of the models made after 1995 or so are actually just urban assault vehicles disguised as pick-ups.
Seriously. It's revolting. I want a truck that looks like a truck, not a midlife crisis.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 4:08 AM on September 17, 2023 [37 favorites]
Seriously. It's revolting. I want a truck that looks like a truck, not a midlife crisis.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 4:08 AM on September 17, 2023 [37 favorites]
My 2010 Honda Insight (which is just a hybrid Fit with some silly body changes) is well past 200k and still has required hardly anything beyond routine maintenance. I honestly don't know what will replace it when it dies presumably at some point in the next few years. Leaning towards a Bolt, if they manage to keep them in production because people actually want them, regardless of what the marketing depts tell us we should want. The Honda e is adorable, so of course it will never be sold here.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:38 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 4:38 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
The last time I took it in for servicing, the mechanic gleefully pulled me aside to show me a feature he'd never seen before in any vehicle, at any level of luxury - an air conditioner vent in the glove compartment.
My 1999 Passat Wagon had one of those. I had that car for 17 years. I'm never going to top that, but the used 08 Outback I got to replace it is inching up on 200k. And after that experience with the loaner* from the dealer, I'm going to keep this one as long as I can.
* I totally appreciate the loaner car while they figured out (what turned out to be 1/2 of ) the Check Engine Light Issue, but the cognitive load of these full-screen touchscreens is just too much of a new trick for this old-dog to enjoy rolling around with. I like KNOBS as a UI. And *dim/blank the TV* isn't somthing that's do-able without navigating some more freaking touchscreen menus.**
** Thank you for listening
posted by mikelieman at 4:43 AM on September 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
My 1999 Passat Wagon had one of those. I had that car for 17 years. I'm never going to top that, but the used 08 Outback I got to replace it is inching up on 200k. And after that experience with the loaner* from the dealer, I'm going to keep this one as long as I can.
* I totally appreciate the loaner car while they figured out (what turned out to be 1/2 of ) the Check Engine Light Issue, but the cognitive load of these full-screen touchscreens is just too much of a new trick for this old-dog to enjoy rolling around with. I like KNOBS as a UI. And *dim/blank the TV* isn't somthing that's do-able without navigating some more freaking touchscreen menus.**
** Thank you for listening
posted by mikelieman at 4:43 AM on September 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
Our Kangoo is awesome, and I seriously don't understand how anyone could choose anything else for basic family transport. Carries 5 adults plus plenty of luggage, you can fold down the seats and turn it into a little utility vehicle, and it gets 40 mpg.
posted by St. Oops at 4:44 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Oops at 4:44 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I mean, I traded in my old 06 Taco for a 20 Tundra during Covid, spent two years driving it and realized it was Too Much, and sold it back to Toyota for $10k more than I got it for and had a little 2.7L 22 Taco made. It’s an SR5 extended cab 6’ bed. The rear has fold down “seats”, but it is really just a great place to set groceries and luggage. My original Taco was a standard cab, which translates to “put items in commercial trash bags and ratchet them into the bed.” It gets great gas mileage for a truck, has a functional bed, and is fairly normal sized. I couldn’t afford to go to the trim level where I could retain my beloved straight drive though, so I still attempt to press my left foot through the floorboard at times. And it is aesthetically pleasing. It’s a happy little truck.
I’d take on a second mortgage for a diesel Hilux though. Never gonna happen in the US :’(
IIRC, there was an episode of Top Gear where they put a Hilux through hell, like driving the thing into the ocean amongst other activities and it just…kept on going.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 6:03 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’d take on a second mortgage for a diesel Hilux though. Never gonna happen in the US :’(
IIRC, there was an episode of Top Gear where they put a Hilux through hell, like driving the thing into the ocean amongst other activities and it just…kept on going.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 6:03 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
That article made me feel Old in that I couldn't parse the slang, but otherwise I can't agree with him more.
It's also true that because small is so strongly coded as "struggling", the higher-end market is missing any small but nice cars. You can get a loud, rough "sports car" ride, but not a quiet, luxe-comfortable but still small car.
posted by Dashy at 6:06 AM on September 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's also true that because small is so strongly coded as "struggling", the higher-end market is missing any small but nice cars. You can get a loud, rough "sports car" ride, but not a quiet, luxe-comfortable but still small car.
posted by Dashy at 6:06 AM on September 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
The last time I took it in for servicing, the mechanic gleefully pulled me aside to show me a feature he'd never seen before in any vehicle, at any level of luxury - an air conditioner vent in the glove compartment.
That’s usually to simplify conversion between left and right handed drive models by making parts that can work for both.
posted by jmauro at 6:31 AM on September 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
That’s usually to simplify conversion between left and right handed drive models by making parts that can work for both.
posted by jmauro at 6:31 AM on September 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
I'm 6'5" which makes car purchasing fairly easy. None of those trucks will properly fit me anyway as they're designed for people between like 5'0" and 6'2" and the leased Prius Prime lifetime average MPG is now up to 91.5 MPG.
I do wish that there was a two door plug in hybrid though. Teeny tiny engine, 50 mile battery range, hatchback. But no, we all have to put up with hundreds of clown shoe cars.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:47 AM on September 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
I do wish that there was a two door plug in hybrid though. Teeny tiny engine, 50 mile battery range, hatchback. But no, we all have to put up with hundreds of clown shoe cars.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:47 AM on September 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
People always say "Oh the market wants big cars" but I call bullshit. Good marketing can sell anything. Small cars would sell in the U.S. if the U.S. car industry wanted to sell them. I think about the Renault Cleo ads from the 1990s. Iconic!
(What's is the French for Va Va Voom?)
Enormous SUVs are dangerous and impractical, especially in cities where they are getting to the point that they don't fit in even U.S. streets. Omg morning drop off outside our kids school where no one can parallel park because their cars are too big and the street doesn't fit too cars going both directions plus a line of parked cars any more.... GAH! CHAOS!! I swear it comes close to fist fights most mornings.
posted by EllaEm at 7:03 AM on September 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
(What's is the French for Va Va Voom?)
Enormous SUVs are dangerous and impractical, especially in cities where they are getting to the point that they don't fit in even U.S. streets. Omg morning drop off outside our kids school where no one can parallel park because their cars are too big and the street doesn't fit too cars going both directions plus a line of parked cars any more.... GAH! CHAOS!! I swear it comes close to fist fights most mornings.
posted by EllaEm at 7:03 AM on September 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
I've been slowly downsizing with each new vehicle. When my Subaru Forester reaches its practical end of life I expect to buy an Outback, assuming it hasn't grown to Forester size by then.
posted by tommasz at 7:15 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 7:15 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I sold my last (old) pickup a while back and am grimly assessing my options. The closest to what I want that is actually sold here is the Tacoma with a manual transmission, but a) it's larger than necessary and b) a double-cab model, which isn't what I really want. Ford and Nissan have no more manual transmission options, and are basically the same size as the Tacoma. So essentially, I can't have what I want, so it's going to just be a choice between tradeoffs and I am kind of grumpy about that. I actually put in an order for a new Tacoma at the local dealer earlier this year but then backed out, I just couldn't see spending that kind of money for something that was a tradeoff.
Or, I may give up on that entirely and go in a different direction, like a buying a more serious offroad vehicle (New Bronco, Jeep Wrangler) and also a very small utility trailer for when I need to haul stuff to the dump.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:17 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Or, I may give up on that entirely and go in a different direction, like a buying a more serious offroad vehicle (New Bronco, Jeep Wrangler) and also a very small utility trailer for when I need to haul stuff to the dump.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:17 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've been slowly downsizing with each new vehicle. When my Subaru Forester reaches its practical end of life I expect to buy an Outback, assuming it hasn't grown to Forester size by then.
Do you mean the Crosstrek? That is the one that is smaller than the Forester. The Outback is longer than the Forester, though the Forester is a bit taller.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:18 AM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Do you mean the Crosstrek? That is the one that is smaller than the Forester. The Outback is longer than the Forester, though the Forester is a bit taller.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:18 AM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Oh, this drives me CRAZY. My wife and I share a '09 Honda Fit, which is a fantastic car: stick-shift, fits everywhere, you can get tons of cargo in it, super reliable. Only 150k miles because we live in the downtown of a major city and can easily walk to the supermarket. But it's starting to show its age, so last year we went looking, and JFC you can't get a small car anymore for love or money. We want an all-electric one because we're enviro-weenies, but nope, all the electric ones you can actually buy are huge. We *like* having a small car, but nope, our capitalist overlords have decided to deny us that choice. Grr.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:19 AM on September 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:19 AM on September 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
That Kangoo looks like a minivan, which is certainly a category of vehicle available in the US market?
posted by eviemath at 7:25 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 7:25 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Kangoo is not a minivan, it's a smaller class of van. US minivans are mostly SUV size or larger, just with different styling and interior space. As noted above, with the exit of the Ford Transit Connect from the market as of 2023, nothing in that class is sold any longer in the US.
All I really have to add is that yes I'm on board with all of you. Really peeves me when someone says vote with your dollar but there's nothing I actually want to buy. Which means my dollars will end up going towards some sort of compromise and the people slicing the data will interpret that as support for that option, when it isn't.
At least the framing is fresh and might start some conversations. Why exactly can the Taliban (and the rest of the world) have pickups we aren't allowed to have?
posted by jellywerker at 7:32 AM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
All I really have to add is that yes I'm on board with all of you. Really peeves me when someone says vote with your dollar but there's nothing I actually want to buy. Which means my dollars will end up going towards some sort of compromise and the people slicing the data will interpret that as support for that option, when it isn't.
At least the framing is fresh and might start some conversations. Why exactly can the Taliban (and the rest of the world) have pickups we aren't allowed to have?
posted by jellywerker at 7:32 AM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
This issue is driving us crazy. My wife and I have no kids. I'm 52, she's a little older. I'm 6' tall, she's on the shorter side. We currently share one sedan from 2013 and it's running fine. But it's a 4-door, and I can count on one and a half hands the number of times per year someone sits in the back seats. And we sometimes need to move larger things around... nothing huge, but bigger than what fits in a 4-door sedan.
Seems like our only (future) option is to get an SUV, a "smaller" SUV like a Subaru Crosstrek or something. My brother has one, it's great, but it still feels like driving a tank. We live in a dense city, and we just don't need a big-ass vehicle. But at the same time, we don't need all 4 doors and a near useless back seat area! Where did all the cool hatchbacks go? Station wagons?
Hopefully it'll be another 5 years before we get a new car, and we hope to go electric. But this guy's article makes some good points.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:34 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Seems like our only (future) option is to get an SUV, a "smaller" SUV like a Subaru Crosstrek or something. My brother has one, it's great, but it still feels like driving a tank. We live in a dense city, and we just don't need a big-ass vehicle. But at the same time, we don't need all 4 doors and a near useless back seat area! Where did all the cool hatchbacks go? Station wagons?
Hopefully it'll be another 5 years before we get a new car, and we hope to go electric. But this guy's article makes some good points.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:34 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm confused by this because our family sizes are getting smaller. I wish there were a consumer interview with other childless millennial types about "why do you feel you require a truck or SUV as your daily driver?"
posted by Selena777 at 7:39 AM on September 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 7:39 AM on September 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
Seems like the ideal car or truck is a bare platform with cabin options to fasten atop, a two part investment, whether it be a convertible, camper, minivan, pickup or flatbed. Computer controls could allow the driver's position be in the rear if one wants to use a screen to steer. (Prediction: gas engines will become very small and charge less batteries, which allows very fast freeway speeds that can cross country).
posted by Brian B. at 7:46 AM on September 17, 2023
posted by Brian B. at 7:46 AM on September 17, 2023
The Outback is longer than the Forester, though the Forester is a bit taller.The current Outback is also wider and heavier than the Forester, and has a larger interior volume.
posted by mbrubeck at 7:50 AM on September 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
I just want a small car that is relatively zippy and fuel efficient in general, but can also tow a small (under 2000lb) trailer if need be for the small number of occasions when I have extra cargo (or to pull a teardrop trailer). My near-perfect Scion tC (basically a 2-door, hatchback Corolla with a slightly larger/sportier engine) has the engine capacity, but isn’t tow rated (at least in North America) - which might have something to do with the frame construction? But yeah, small car + trailer for the few times per year you need it would really make the most sense for most people’s actual driving needs.
posted by eviemath at 7:54 AM on September 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 7:54 AM on September 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Seems like our only (future) option is to get an SUV, a "smaller" SUV like a Subaru Crosstrek or something.Have you considered a hatchback? The Subaru Crosstrek is literally just a Subaru Impreza hatchback body sitting on larger wheels and a higher suspension. Despite some minor bodywork differences, the interior and cargo capacity are the same. And though it has a smaller engine, the Impreza drives better thanks to being lower to the ground and slightly lighter.
posted by mbrubeck at 7:56 AM on September 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
If my Honda Fit dies before I can afford something newer and electric, there's a real good chance I'm just getting another used Honda Fit. As much as the insane highway noise and weak AC of my '10 bother me, and the fact that I've never hit the kind of gas mileage with it that others seem to, I love everything else about it.
If it could carry a full sheet of plywood it would be the perfect vehicle.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:03 AM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
If it could carry a full sheet of plywood it would be the perfect vehicle.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:03 AM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hubby and I tend to drive our vehicles forever. Current stable is my 2010 Kia Sportage, his 2004 Mazda 3, and my 1994 Ram 1500 for chores. Even that pickup seems huge to me, and it's not nearly as tall as today's offerings. We only buy used, and we're hoping that by the time we need to replace one of our current vehicles, there will be enough affordable pure EVs to choose from.
For several years, I drove a '75 Ford Courier. It was underpowered, but it did everything I needed it to do, and went everywhere I needed to go. The bed was nice and low; it was made for getting work done without breaking your back. It was a complete piece of shit, but I miss that little truck.
posted by xedrik at 8:12 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
For several years, I drove a '75 Ford Courier. It was underpowered, but it did everything I needed it to do, and went everywhere I needed to go. The bed was nice and low; it was made for getting work done without breaking your back. It was a complete piece of shit, but I miss that little truck.
posted by xedrik at 8:12 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Another Fit Fanatic here. I got one in 2017, and hardly drive it as I'm primarily a bike commuter. It just hit 10k miles the other month, when I did a road trip to Kansas City. It was literally the first time I'd used the cruise control! Which, by the way, for those like me that just haven't been paying attention, modern cruise control is awesome. Automatically slows to match speed and reasonable following distance from the vehicle in front of you, it really is like living in the future. You still have to pay attention but it's vastly less cognitive stress.
I hope to be past driving age when it gives out on me. Like everyone else, I have no idea what I would try to replace it with.
posted by notoriety public at 8:22 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I hope to be past driving age when it gives out on me. Like everyone else, I have no idea what I would try to replace it with.
posted by notoriety public at 8:22 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
mbrubeck: Thanks for the tip. We haven't done any serious shopping research yet, but I will certainly consider the Impreza. We have a used (it was about 2 years old when we bought it) 2013 BMW 320i (entry-level BMW, basic model) and it just hit 100,000. Aside from some onboard electronic/computer related annoyances (in 2013, vehicles were just not great at integrating phones, some of the sensors are off, the navigation display and app/service is useless, the UI on the entire electronics system is crap, etc) it still runs like a champ.
posted by SoberHighland at 8:24 AM on September 17, 2023
posted by SoberHighland at 8:24 AM on September 17, 2023
So sad about the Fit. Our built in Japan 07 only has 85k miles so we hope to get a lot more life out of it.
posted by supermedusa at 8:48 AM on September 17, 2023
posted by supermedusa at 8:48 AM on September 17, 2023
Bring back the El Camino!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:05 AM on September 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:05 AM on September 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
Let not forget the effect of a generalized insecurity among a non-significant portion of American males on the truck market.
posted by gottabefunky at 9:14 AM on September 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 9:14 AM on September 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
Also don't underestimate the visceral demands of a parent who is worried about their children dying in a collision with a vehicle larger than the one they're in. Nevermind that someone else's kids may die instead. I was married to this 25 years ago. It was almost impossible to deflect even then.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:02 AM on September 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:02 AM on September 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
insecurity among a non-significant portion of American males in the truck market
Absolutely. But, Honda Ridgelines were very poor sellers used when they first came out. "Not a Real Truck!", among other predictably offensive labels. However, once mechanics realized they can easily reach 300,000 miles with minimal service, they command premium prices used, and people rave about their NARTs. For some portion of that market, all it took was time.
posted by CynicalKnight at 10:14 AM on September 17, 2023
Absolutely. But, Honda Ridgelines were very poor sellers used when they first came out. "Not a Real Truck!", among other predictably offensive labels. However, once mechanics realized they can easily reach 300,000 miles with minimal service, they command premium prices used, and people rave about their NARTs. For some portion of that market, all it took was time.
posted by CynicalKnight at 10:14 AM on September 17, 2023
I deeply love the absurd over-the-top slang-slathered writing style of this Blackbird Spyplane (BBSP) newsletter. Thank you bongerino for sharing the very correct (and uncontroversial unlike some of their other decrees) post about small cars. (Also Honda Fit represent! It is perhaps the only car make and model owned by friends who live/used to live in San Francisco).
I just spent at least two hours reading (yay weekend?) through their archives (outfits based on the cuff stack, the negative effects of fashion site Ssense, fashion fun by fat men), and came upon this 3rd anniversary post that both explains a little bit about BBSP and included this hilarity:
I just spent at least two hours reading (yay weekend?) through their archives (outfits based on the cuff stack, the negative effects of fashion site Ssense, fashion fun by fat men), and came upon this 3rd anniversary post that both explains a little bit about BBSP and included this hilarity:
Our cultural criticism soon became staple conversation fodder for the American Breakfast Nook, to the degree that even a guy as cursed & unswaggy as Pete B*ttigieg tweeted about not understanding one of our essays when he should have been regulating the railroads…posted by spamandkimchi at 10:14 AM on September 17, 2023 [3 favorites]staff member trying to explain about "un-grammable hang zones" to me and I've never felt so old (Nov 18 2022)
Who knew the Fit was such a popular car on MetaFilter? I also love my Fit (Fiona) dearly, it is a 2015 and has required no maintenance other than regular oil changes and such. I am already upset that, whenever it is that I will need a new car, that car companies are trying to force me into an SUV that I do not want (I mean, ideally, my next car will be no car at all, but that is a dream...)
I think Canadians have been thoroughly indoctrinated into believing that living here requires a truck or SUV, to the point that people are routinely amazed that I take my Fit camping, like somehow she wouldn't be able to navigate a dirt road, or that I take her down rural roads in the winter time (she is fantastic in the snow with proper winter tires). She always starts in the winter, and she lives outside where it does get to -40C sometimes, and that is not true of some major brands that have leaned into petro-masculinity. I could go on and on, but she is the perfect "going out of the city" car.
posted by selenized at 10:20 AM on September 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
I think Canadians have been thoroughly indoctrinated into believing that living here requires a truck or SUV, to the point that people are routinely amazed that I take my Fit camping, like somehow she wouldn't be able to navigate a dirt road, or that I take her down rural roads in the winter time (she is fantastic in the snow with proper winter tires). She always starts in the winter, and she lives outside where it does get to -40C sometimes, and that is not true of some major brands that have leaned into petro-masculinity. I could go on and on, but she is the perfect "going out of the city" car.
posted by selenized at 10:20 AM on September 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
Mr. McGuire: I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening?
Benjamin: Yes, I am.
Mr. McGuire: Datsun.
posted by credulous at 10:33 AM on September 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
Benjamin: Yes, I am.
Mr. McGuire: Datsun.
posted by credulous at 10:33 AM on September 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
Whenever I see cars today, I think of David Byrne wearing his oversized suit in Stop Making Sense:
We have great big bodies
We got great big heads
Run-a-run-a-run it all together
Check it out - still don't make no sense
Makin' flippy floppy
Tryin to do my best
Lock the door
We kill the beast
Kill it!
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:35 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
We have great big bodies
We got great big heads
Run-a-run-a-run it all together
Check it out - still don't make no sense
Makin' flippy floppy
Tryin to do my best
Lock the door
We kill the beast
Kill it!
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:35 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’m very frustrated by a relative of this problem, namely getting a minivan that isn’t the size of an actual tank in Canada, which despite me needing something as small and parkable as possible, since I live in an overstuffed city, not suburbs with vast swaths of parking space, just gets US market cars. Europe has a bunch of vehicles that can easily fit 3 kids and their gear, that are relatively small and manoeuvrable, with decent mpg, and we just have giant boats, which while probably very comfy for long road trips, are way oversized for day to day use. Closest thing I can find is the Outback, which is long, but at least capacious enough to wedge all the kids in, but not quite the mid-size MPV like a VW Sharan or Ford S-Max. That car category just doesn’t exist here, except for maybe the discontinued Mazda 5, which we looked at but is just a touch too small.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 10:43 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Jon Mitchell at 10:43 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, we are another family hoping against hope that our honda fit lives another few years. I suspect most of us on this thread used to be honda civics drivers. In years passed I could never find where I parked my car because half the street was black honda civics. Now it's red honda fits as far as the eye can see.
It's because its the only small reliable car you can buy in the US! This is why I refuse to believe the "oh there's no market for it" bs. If there is no market for small cars in America, why can I see literally three honda fits outside my American window right now? A car that is discontinued because apparently no one likes it.
Yet another example of capitalism actually being about ideology, not about making money. Comparison point: FIFA refusing to make billions of dollars off women's football.
posted by EllaEm at 10:47 AM on September 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
It's because its the only small reliable car you can buy in the US! This is why I refuse to believe the "oh there's no market for it" bs. If there is no market for small cars in America, why can I see literally three honda fits outside my American window right now? A car that is discontinued because apparently no one likes it.
Yet another example of capitalism actually being about ideology, not about making money. Comparison point: FIFA refusing to make billions of dollars off women's football.
posted by EllaEm at 10:47 AM on September 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
the visceral demands of a parent who is worried about their children dying in a collision with a vehicle larger than the one they're in
Friends of mine had this panic, looked at crash records, bought a straight up minivan with considerable alas-uncool feelings…. got T-boned by a bigger SUV, everyone was fine, will probably drive minivans forever.
If minivans are still sold in the US, I guess.
posted by clew at 11:13 AM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Friends of mine had this panic, looked at crash records, bought a straight up minivan with considerable alas-uncool feelings…. got T-boned by a bigger SUV, everyone was fine, will probably drive minivans forever.
If minivans are still sold in the US, I guess.
posted by clew at 11:13 AM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
I drive a 2011 Outback and I am proud to be keeping a little station wagon on the road.
Only noisy assholes, farmers, and contractors want these giant trucks -- and the latter two categories can actually justify it. Why do the noisy assholes ruin it for the rest of us?
posted by wenestvedt at 11:39 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Only noisy assholes, farmers, and contractors want these giant trucks -- and the latter two categories can actually justify it. Why do the noisy assholes ruin it for the rest of us?
posted by wenestvedt at 11:39 AM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
The writing style in the substack is definitely intentionally over-the-top, and layered with irony. Strangely, it reads as very familiar and hilarious to my younger millennial sensibilities, although I did have to read a few pieces from them first to get a feel for their in-jokes and internal slang. (I could've sworn I heard about them on the blue here from that B*ttigieg tweet shared last year, but couldn't find a link).
My non-huge car story is that I recently moved to the east coast away from a small car city, and have been shocked how large the cars are here. We've been buying some used furniture from people (read: coppin sick vintage home-jawnz), even driving into rural-seeming tr*mp-flags-everywhere territory to pick up some pieces. The sellers have all been friendly, but every single time we show up in our 4door hatchback, they go into this spiel of (1) expressing extreme doubt the dresser/coffee table/chairs/etc can fit into our car, then (2) excitedly being surprised when they realize our car has more cargo space than their massive trucks. Plus, you don't have to lift it so high to load it into the car!
My possibly controversial take is that I've always seen the Honda Fit as aesthetically devoid of swag, although I definitely respect the ethos of small cars, and deeply yearn for high-end two-door hatchbacks + kei trucks.
posted by bongerino at 12:24 PM on September 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
My non-huge car story is that I recently moved to the east coast away from a small car city, and have been shocked how large the cars are here. We've been buying some used furniture from people (read: coppin sick vintage home-jawnz), even driving into rural-seeming tr*mp-flags-everywhere territory to pick up some pieces. The sellers have all been friendly, but every single time we show up in our 4door hatchback, they go into this spiel of (1) expressing extreme doubt the dresser/coffee table/chairs/etc can fit into our car, then (2) excitedly being surprised when they realize our car has more cargo space than their massive trucks. Plus, you don't have to lift it so high to load it into the car!
My possibly controversial take is that I've always seen the Honda Fit as aesthetically devoid of swag, although I definitely respect the ethos of small cars, and deeply yearn for high-end two-door hatchbacks + kei trucks.
posted by bongerino at 12:24 PM on September 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
I mean, big trucks are obviously popular in the US, but at least in Kansas there has been a rural love affair with kei-trucks for longer than a decade. Every farmer worth their salt has one to tool around in and abuse. Not street legal, but those rules are more flexible when you’re deep off the highway.
I think if you had sensible small trucks (Ford Maverick, anyone?) available more freely, you’d see them on a lot of country roads. Small trucks are fun, practical, and cheap.
posted by q*ben at 12:50 PM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think if you had sensible small trucks (Ford Maverick, anyone?) available more freely, you’d see them on a lot of country roads. Small trucks are fun, practical, and cheap.
posted by q*ben at 12:50 PM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Only noisy assholes, farmers, and contractors want these giant trucks -- and the latter two categories can actually justify it.
Gotta disagree on that last category. Speaking from personal experience, a cargo van like a Ford Transit or Mercedes Sprinter is far more practical for contracting work. There's more usable hauling space and the cargo area is protected from the elements, much more sensible than a truck. There's a reason vans are the default option for contractors outside the US.
And I'd argue you don't even need that much space for some jobs. I renovated my basement a few years ago and hauled everything (including a dozen cases of LVP flooring planks) in my little Mazda3 hatchback.
posted by photo guy at 1:27 PM on September 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
Gotta disagree on that last category. Speaking from personal experience, a cargo van like a Ford Transit or Mercedes Sprinter is far more practical for contracting work. There's more usable hauling space and the cargo area is protected from the elements, much more sensible than a truck. There's a reason vans are the default option for contractors outside the US.
And I'd argue you don't even need that much space for some jobs. I renovated my basement a few years ago and hauled everything (including a dozen cases of LVP flooring planks) in my little Mazda3 hatchback.
posted by photo guy at 1:27 PM on September 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
cynicalknight: Honda Ridgelines were very poor sellers used when they first came out. "Not a Real Truck!", among other predictably offensive labels. However, once mechanics realized they can easily reach 300,000 miles with minimal service, they command premium prices used, and people rave about their NARTs. For some portion of that market, all it took was time.
In searching for a 6-cylinder boat-hauler, I looked at a lot of vehicles, but ended up overpaying for a low-mileage, rust-free Kentucky-assembled 2011 Ridgeline. In two years of ownership (and probably less than 3000 km/yr) , it's been a good vehicle, and hauls the boat well. Lots of clever engineering. The rear seats fold up, leaving a lot of useable space behind the front row. And there's a "trunk" under the bed. But the paint is also a problem (why Honda why?). A friend put nearly 400k km on his 2007 Ridgeline and then replaced the engine when it went. So yeah, reliable. And despite the funny looks, a real truck, if you actually have stuff to carry/haul.
But to the subject of the OP - yes, there are a ton of efficient, utilitarian, durable small haulers available globally EXCEPT for N America. The HiLuxes in particular.
posted by Artful Codger at 2:04 PM on September 17, 2023
In searching for a 6-cylinder boat-hauler, I looked at a lot of vehicles, but ended up overpaying for a low-mileage, rust-free Kentucky-assembled 2011 Ridgeline. In two years of ownership (and probably less than 3000 km/yr) , it's been a good vehicle, and hauls the boat well. Lots of clever engineering. The rear seats fold up, leaving a lot of useable space behind the front row. And there's a "trunk" under the bed. But the paint is also a problem (why Honda why?). A friend put nearly 400k km on his 2007 Ridgeline and then replaced the engine when it went. So yeah, reliable. And despite the funny looks, a real truck, if you actually have stuff to carry/haul.
But to the subject of the OP - yes, there are a ton of efficient, utilitarian, durable small haulers available globally EXCEPT for N America. The HiLuxes in particular.
posted by Artful Codger at 2:04 PM on September 17, 2023
Yeah around here there are quite a few people who can justify needing a truck, mostly small hobby-farm related reasons. Towing horse trailers, that kind of thing. But if it were me, I'd have a truck AND ALSO a small car to use as a daily driver, not be trying to find parking for that beast. (And also not making the parking lot impassable for everyone else).
I bought the most boring mid-size sedan I could in '20, because I DON'T want a "sporty" ride. I don't find driving fun, and don't want it to be fun. I want to be reasonably comfortable while I'm in it, stay between the white lines, and have it be as little hassle as possible. When I'm traveling for work (which is fairly often), I try to get a Spark, because you can park that thing anywhere.
posted by ctmf at 3:11 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I bought the most boring mid-size sedan I could in '20, because I DON'T want a "sporty" ride. I don't find driving fun, and don't want it to be fun. I want to be reasonably comfortable while I'm in it, stay between the white lines, and have it be as little hassle as possible. When I'm traveling for work (which is fairly often), I try to get a Spark, because you can park that thing anywhere.
posted by ctmf at 3:11 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'd have a truck AND ALSO a small car
We do just that (Mazda 3, stick - 4 years, and before that a Honda Civic for 18 yrs), I just didn't want to supersize my comment. The car gets used the most, ~8k km/year, now that we're retired.
posted by Artful Codger at 3:41 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
We do just that (Mazda 3, stick - 4 years, and before that a Honda Civic for 18 yrs), I just didn't want to supersize my comment. The car gets used the most, ~8k km/year, now that we're retired.
posted by Artful Codger at 3:41 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’m surprised CAFE doesn’t get a mention as a factor.
This is the catch-22 of a world where, on one hand, we want to limit emissions—but on the other, still recognize that some people truly do need larger vehicles and pickups. It's a bit of a chicken and egg question: Are so many people wanting and buying bigger cars that automakers can only supply the demand? Or have automakers purposefully pinched off our selection of small cars so we have no choice but to buy big cars?posted by zamboni at 3:59 PM on September 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
Back when I commuted for work, I picked up a 2014 Chevy Volt. Love that car and can fit a ton in it, but we're also working on our house and my spouse loves buying vintage furniture and getting things for her classroom as well.
So, I'm currently in the market for a used pickup truck and flat out got told that trying to find a "small/medium 2.5 door pickup" was like looking for a unicorn.
I don't want a beast. I just want something I can stick a vintage armoire in the back of and buy mulch/firewood and maybe tow a light camper in if I can convince the wife that bigfoot won't attack us for camping in the woods.
posted by drewbage1847 at 4:04 PM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
So, I'm currently in the market for a used pickup truck and flat out got told that trying to find a "small/medium 2.5 door pickup" was like looking for a unicorn.
I don't want a beast. I just want something I can stick a vintage armoire in the back of and buy mulch/firewood and maybe tow a light camper in if I can convince the wife that bigfoot won't attack us for camping in the woods.
posted by drewbage1847 at 4:04 PM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
But if it were me, I'd have a truck AND ALSO a small car to use as a daily driver, not be trying to find parking for that beast.
We moved locally last year in metro Buffalo, and were mostly looking at places edging out into the boonies. One place was on 15 acres and it was on a creek and it had fields and a smallish riding arena to use for dog sports! But the house was one of those old houses that had been added onto in ways that meant there were stairs ev-uh-ree where and this was asposed to be our house well into being rickety so no. We ended up in a ranch house in Clarence Center* that is beautiful and grand in its own ways.
ANYWAY! he says putting the onion on his belt, the point being that we were looking at places where we'd be in serious danger of needing something for occasional farmish work or plowing a long driveway.
DOUBLE ANYWAY! I decided the *right* thing to do in this circumstance would be to get a military surplus piece of shit or an old unimog or import an even older hilux (or just buy one in Canada, drive it across, and never bother registering it). Something that mostly just never breaks and when it does it's specifically designed for 18 year old dumbasses to be able to fix in the pouring rain while being shot at (I wouldn't expect to be routinely shot at but am an evendumberass so these cancel each other out SCIENCE). And then be resigned to actually just owning a series of beat-to-shit old tractors.
TRIPLE ANYWAY people who bought ooh almost a whole acre of land and think they need an F250 to deal with that are not nearly weird enough. There is a box people and it's there for you to think outside of! Your hobby farm veeeehickle does not even need to be road legal!
Now I'm worried I made regular sweet tea instead of decaf
*the kid from Sixth Sense saying "I see white people!"
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:21 PM on September 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
We moved locally last year in metro Buffalo, and were mostly looking at places edging out into the boonies. One place was on 15 acres and it was on a creek and it had fields and a smallish riding arena to use for dog sports! But the house was one of those old houses that had been added onto in ways that meant there were stairs ev-uh-ree where and this was asposed to be our house well into being rickety so no. We ended up in a ranch house in Clarence Center* that is beautiful and grand in its own ways.
ANYWAY! he says putting the onion on his belt, the point being that we were looking at places where we'd be in serious danger of needing something for occasional farmish work or plowing a long driveway.
DOUBLE ANYWAY! I decided the *right* thing to do in this circumstance would be to get a military surplus piece of shit or an old unimog or import an even older hilux (or just buy one in Canada, drive it across, and never bother registering it). Something that mostly just never breaks and when it does it's specifically designed for 18 year old dumbasses to be able to fix in the pouring rain while being shot at (I wouldn't expect to be routinely shot at but am an evendumberass so these cancel each other out SCIENCE). And then be resigned to actually just owning a series of beat-to-shit old tractors.
TRIPLE ANYWAY people who bought ooh almost a whole acre of land and think they need an F250 to deal with that are not nearly weird enough. There is a box people and it's there for you to think outside of! Your hobby farm veeeehickle does not even need to be road legal!
Now I'm worried I made regular sweet tea instead of decaf
*the kid from Sixth Sense saying "I see white people!"
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:21 PM on September 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
"cars are prison cells masquerading as tickets to freedom" perfectly captures my own personal experience with car ownership, thank you BBSP for that particular formulation
posted by Gerald Bostock at 4:29 PM on September 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Gerald Bostock at 4:29 PM on September 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
On this rural island, both elderly small trucks and ginormous luxury new trucks are very popular. The small ones tend to be driven by the farmers and longtime residents, especially on the hippy-ish south end, and the giant ones by more MAGA and military guys on the Naval base north end.
We had a 1992 Toyota pickup that we loved, with 200k+ miles on it, but last year the clutch burned out and no one would work on it for us. This past weekend we bought a 2008 Ranger, hoping that’s new enough to get it serviced for another 100k miles. Fingers crossed.
posted by skookumsaurus rex at 4:39 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
We had a 1992 Toyota pickup that we loved, with 200k+ miles on it, but last year the clutch burned out and no one would work on it for us. This past weekend we bought a 2008 Ranger, hoping that’s new enough to get it serviced for another 100k miles. Fingers crossed.
posted by skookumsaurus rex at 4:39 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's not just that bigger cars are being sold more, but all cars are getting bigger and bigger:
- 1960s Toyota Corolla - 720 kg (1,587 lb), now grown 47% to 1,364 kg (3,009 lb)
- 1960s Ford F0100 - 1,419 kg (3,129 lb), now grown 32% to 2,114 kg (4,661 lbs).
There are plenty of what used to be small-ish utes (trucks to you) available everywhere - Toyota Hilux, Nissan Navara/Frontier, Ford Ranger, VW Amarok, Mitsubishi Triton etc. If these are no longer available in the US, that's a shame for you because they fit nicely as big enough for anything a reasonable human could need or want but still fit into regular car parks and garages. They've also got bigger over the years, of course and don't seem to be available in two-wheel-drive any more, plus single/extra cab models are rare. But, with an efficient diesel engine, they are not even close to the monsters that seem to be ubiquitous in the US and that we really only see in movies (although the guy down the road has one and I try to feel sorry for him every time he drives past, but usually just laugh at him). A twin-cab ute really is the best of most worlds, which is why they're the biggest-selling vehicles here in Australia by a long shot.
posted by dg at 5:01 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
- 1960s Toyota Corolla - 720 kg (1,587 lb), now grown 47% to 1,364 kg (3,009 lb)
- 1960s Ford F0100 - 1,419 kg (3,129 lb), now grown 32% to 2,114 kg (4,661 lbs).
There are plenty of what used to be small-ish utes (trucks to you) available everywhere - Toyota Hilux, Nissan Navara/Frontier, Ford Ranger, VW Amarok, Mitsubishi Triton etc. If these are no longer available in the US, that's a shame for you because they fit nicely as big enough for anything a reasonable human could need or want but still fit into regular car parks and garages. They've also got bigger over the years, of course and don't seem to be available in two-wheel-drive any more, plus single/extra cab models are rare. But, with an efficient diesel engine, they are not even close to the monsters that seem to be ubiquitous in the US and that we really only see in movies (although the guy down the road has one and I try to feel sorry for him every time he drives past, but usually just laugh at him). A twin-cab ute really is the best of most worlds, which is why they're the biggest-selling vehicles here in Australia by a long shot.
posted by dg at 5:01 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
GCU Sweet and Full of Grace, the Canadian market is essentially the same as the US market (plus daytime running lights, minus some selection and availability). Hiluxes are also not sold in Canada.
posted by eviemath at 5:09 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 5:09 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
"why do you feel you require a truck or SUV as your daily driver?"
Sigh... we know why, have for a long time now. These owner/operators have big vehicles because they feel safer in them (and are just oblivious, or don't give a shit about the greater damage they cause, in collisions).
posted by Rash at 5:27 PM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Sigh... we know why, have for a long time now. These owner/operators have big vehicles because they feel safer in them (and are just oblivious, or don't give a shit about the greater damage they cause, in collisions).
posted by Rash at 5:27 PM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
These owner/operators have big vehicles because they feel safer in them (and are just oblivious, or don't give a shit about the greater damage they cause, in collisions).Or enjoy intimidating other people. I’m periodically reminded of a woman I saw earlier this summer very carefully looking two pedestrians in the eye and making it clear that she’d drive through them if they persisted in walking in the crosswalk just because they had the signal – both because I bet she doesn’t have many other areas in life to make power plays and because she has so much company.
posted by adamsc at 5:39 PM on September 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
GCU Sweet and Full of Grace, the Canadian market is essentially the same as the US market (plus daytime running lights, minus some selection and availability). Hiluxes are also not sold in Canada.
The main difference is that in Canada grey-market imports can be done earlier, while in the US you have to wait until a vehicle is 25 years old. So there are a lot of newer Hiluxes, Landcruisers, etc. that have been brought into Canada that you won't see here for another decade at least. So in theory you could buy a more recent grey-market import in Canada, then illegally bring it into the US, but there are all kinds of practical barriers to that.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:01 PM on September 17, 2023
The main difference is that in Canada grey-market imports can be done earlier, while in the US you have to wait until a vehicle is 25 years old. So there are a lot of newer Hiluxes, Landcruisers, etc. that have been brought into Canada that you won't see here for another decade at least. So in theory you could buy a more recent grey-market import in Canada, then illegally bring it into the US, but there are all kinds of practical barriers to that.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:01 PM on September 17, 2023
I feel very seen by this article. Daily driver for work: 2006 Ford Ranger (I move fridges, stoves, plywood, drywall, and 2x4's at work and literally need a pickup truck but NOT an assault-vehicle pickup truck. The lower bed height of the old-style Ranger means I can load a fridge by myself as a 53 yr old woman. Very useful, plus I love the 4x4 in winter.) Daily driver for non-work: 2007 Honda Fit. It's a great little car, gets fantastic mileage.
Both of my vehicles are over 200K on the odometer, but... man, they ain't selling what I wanna buy so... (the "newer" Ford Ranger is a tricked-out piece of crap, no thanks)
I also have a 2002 7.3L diesel (160K on the odometer) for pulling my 3 horse slant gooseneck which logs fewer than 2000 miles per year. Generally it doesn't leave the property unless I'm hauling ponies somewhere. I do not enjoy driving it unless I'm hauling ponies but dang, for hauling ponies it's da bomb.
posted by which_chick at 6:27 PM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Both of my vehicles are over 200K on the odometer, but... man, they ain't selling what I wanna buy so... (the "newer" Ford Ranger is a tricked-out piece of crap, no thanks)
I also have a 2002 7.3L diesel (160K on the odometer) for pulling my 3 horse slant gooseneck which logs fewer than 2000 miles per year. Generally it doesn't leave the property unless I'm hauling ponies somewhere. I do not enjoy driving it unless I'm hauling ponies but dang, for hauling ponies it's da bomb.
posted by which_chick at 6:27 PM on September 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
IIRC, there was an episode of Top Gear where they put a Hilux through hell, like driving the thing into the ocean amongst other activities and it just…kept on going.
You do recall correctly. They hit it with a wrecking ball, put it in the ocean when the tide came up in a place where that covered it up, then it got dragged away and they found it and hauled it out, set it on fire… then put it on top of a building about to be demolished by implosion… and it kept going when the mechanic was allowed a set of hand wrenches and some oil. They put it on a plinth as they decided it was unstoppable.
My parents both drove Jeep Grand Cherokees for a while. My other (who since had a hip replacement) liked it because she didn’t need to bend her hip to go down and get in, but I never understood what they saw in the things.
For myself, a walked and bus rider, I nearly got pasted by an SUV by the Metrotech subway station when it blew through a red light, made a left and barely missed me, and then screeched to a halt to let someone out… with their “Clergy” marked plate. (God was with them in that they didn’t kill me, I guess). I’ve had other near-encounters with SUVs and pickups and they always seem so angry that pedestrians exist.
posted by mephron at 6:59 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
You do recall correctly. They hit it with a wrecking ball, put it in the ocean when the tide came up in a place where that covered it up, then it got dragged away and they found it and hauled it out, set it on fire… then put it on top of a building about to be demolished by implosion… and it kept going when the mechanic was allowed a set of hand wrenches and some oil. They put it on a plinth as they decided it was unstoppable.
My parents both drove Jeep Grand Cherokees for a while. My other (who since had a hip replacement) liked it because she didn’t need to bend her hip to go down and get in, but I never understood what they saw in the things.
For myself, a walked and bus rider, I nearly got pasted by an SUV by the Metrotech subway station when it blew through a red light, made a left and barely missed me, and then screeched to a halt to let someone out… with their “Clergy” marked plate. (God was with them in that they didn’t kill me, I guess). I’ve had other near-encounters with SUVs and pickups and they always seem so angry that pedestrians exist.
posted by mephron at 6:59 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
US tax policy favors the purchase of larger trucks by businesses. Some who would otherwise purchase a smaller truck or van purchase a large truck because of the tax breaks.
posted by AJScease at 7:06 PM on September 17, 2023
posted by AJScease at 7:06 PM on September 17, 2023
My HR-V is built on the Fit platform, and despite being an SUV with ample cargo space is basically the same length as the 4-door Golf I park next to.
posted by thecjm at 8:29 AM on September 18, 2023
posted by thecjm at 8:29 AM on September 18, 2023
The big trucks are because every football game shows commercials lauding "real working Americans" and the giant trucks they need to do "the thing." My whole family were iron workers, pipe fitters, labor union guys back in the 70s. Nobody had anything bigger than a Ford LTD. Somehow their tools and equipment got to work. Weird.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:22 AM on September 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:22 AM on September 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
I just bought a low-milage (93K) 2011 Fit Sport from my friend who just bought a new Subaru. We paid cash with the money we had been saving up for a down payment on a new car. So now we have both dependable transportation and no car note! (Seriously, car payments these days are ruinous.)
posted by vibrotronica at 10:02 AM on September 18, 2023
posted by vibrotronica at 10:02 AM on September 18, 2023
The big trucks are because every football game shows commercials lauding "real working Americans" and the giant trucks they need to do "the thing."
It's a regulatory failure as much as anything, but the reality is that there just isn't much savings in terms of purchase or operating cost for a midsize vs fullsize pickup. Like, a Tacoma and a F150 with the ecoboost engine have about the same MPG rating, but the Ford can carry and tow way more, and is more spacious inside. Unless you specifically need the smaller truck, there are a lot of factors that can tip people towards the larger trucks.
(There are both purchase and operating savings by buying the only smaller pickup currently sold, the Ford Maverick, especially in hybrid form, but there's also a long waiting list to get one, unless you want to pay well over MSRP for one of the few that is available on the spot.)
posted by Dip Flash at 10:07 AM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's a regulatory failure as much as anything, but the reality is that there just isn't much savings in terms of purchase or operating cost for a midsize vs fullsize pickup. Like, a Tacoma and a F150 with the ecoboost engine have about the same MPG rating, but the Ford can carry and tow way more, and is more spacious inside. Unless you specifically need the smaller truck, there are a lot of factors that can tip people towards the larger trucks.
(There are both purchase and operating savings by buying the only smaller pickup currently sold, the Ford Maverick, especially in hybrid form, but there's also a long waiting list to get one, unless you want to pay well over MSRP for one of the few that is available on the spot.)
posted by Dip Flash at 10:07 AM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've seen a surprising number of people importing F150s here to Sweden
It really drove home just how huge N. American trucks have become when I saw an imported F-150 driving around a residential area of Germany (in Trier, I think). It was just hilariously huge and out of place on the narrow streets.
posted by asnider at 10:30 AM on September 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
It really drove home just how huge N. American trucks have become when I saw an imported F-150 driving around a residential area of Germany (in Trier, I think). It was just hilariously huge and out of place on the narrow streets.
posted by asnider at 10:30 AM on September 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
asnider: It really drove home just how huge N. American trucks have become
Twenty years ago already. Someone on the street I lived on, a not particularly narrow street in an average Dutch city, had an F150. It stood out in a really oversized, obese way, even next to a Volvo and a Mercedes.
The really bizarre bit was the rear differential that had just 15cm, half a foot, of ground clearance.
posted by Stoneshop at 12:16 PM on September 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Twenty years ago already. Someone on the street I lived on, a not particularly narrow street in an average Dutch city, had an F150. It stood out in a really oversized, obese way, even next to a Volvo and a Mercedes.
The really bizarre bit was the rear differential that had just 15cm, half a foot, of ground clearance.
posted by Stoneshop at 12:16 PM on September 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Speaking of Hiluxes, I drove next to one on the freeway earlier this year (driven by some special forces-looking guys adjacent to a large west coast military base) and visually, it was virtually the same size as the current Tacoma. The current Ford Ranger is based on their global platform and I believe is the same size in the US and elsewhere, just with different engines and transmissions. The difference is that in the US those are considered small, and everywhere else they are normal to large.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:50 PM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Dip Flash at 4:50 PM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Toyota Hilux, Ford Ranger and all the other similar trucks are about the same size, albeit bigger than the same models were a decade ago. The Tacoma sits in between these and the F-150 etc, but closer in size to a Hilux or Ranger than an F-150. A Hilux or Ranger et al is considered a big car here in Australia, but these are the largest selling vehicles overall and have been for many years. Most of these have an SUV variant available here with the same trim/engine etc offerings (Hilux = Fortuna, Ranger = Everest etc), but these don't sell very well, with the Isuzu MU-X doing best at #18 on the sales charts.
As I mentioned earlier, pretty much all vehicles get bigger over time, but I feel like the F-150 etc have grown from being 'larger than average' vehicles to being monsters that have no place on suburban or urban roads.
posted by dg at 8:03 PM on September 18, 2023
As I mentioned earlier, pretty much all vehicles get bigger over time, but I feel like the F-150 etc have grown from being 'larger than average' vehicles to being monsters that have no place on suburban or urban roads.
posted by dg at 8:03 PM on September 18, 2023
Not looking forward to giant electric pickups with their 5000 lb batteries at head level.
posted by Ansible at 7:50 AM on September 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Ansible at 7:50 AM on September 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
I desperately wanted a Fit back in 2009 when we finally ditched my 20 year old Acura but we decided to go with the Camry Hybrid. It's still going strong, but it is a sad looking lump compared to the Fit.
My husband and I want to upgrade to EV for the next car, to join our long range CRV, but we have been lamenting how all of the EVs are getting huge. It looks like it's going to be the Chevy Bolt EV for us. We may have to buy a 2023 though. First Chevy claimed they were killing it for 2024, but now it claims they're redesigning it, but who knows?
posted by ceejaytee at 8:25 AM on September 19, 2023
My husband and I want to upgrade to EV for the next car, to join our long range CRV, but we have been lamenting how all of the EVs are getting huge. It looks like it's going to be the Chevy Bolt EV for us. We may have to buy a 2023 though. First Chevy claimed they were killing it for 2024, but now it claims they're redesigning it, but who knows?
posted by ceejaytee at 8:25 AM on September 19, 2023
I've always had a fondness for Japanese minitrucks. They seem like they could be ideal for a second or hobby vehicle, for putting around a small town, for, say, someone who's recently retired and considers themselves "handy" (ahem). The right-hand drive is of course a drawback.
Compared to N American pickups, they look like toys - part of the appeal I confess - but I'll bet that, not counting towing, they could do 80+% of the trips and hauls that the big pickups are currently used for.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:49 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Compared to N American pickups, they look like toys - part of the appeal I confess - but I'll bet that, not counting towing, they could do 80+% of the trips and hauls that the big pickups are currently used for.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:49 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've always had a fondness for Japanese minitrucks. They seem like they could be ideal for a second or hobby vehicle, for putting around a small town, for, say, someone who's recently retired and considers themselves "handy" (ahem). The right-hand drive is of course a drawback.
Long ago I had a 4wd van version of one of those as a work vehicle for about six months. It basically had a lawnmower engine, so you had to accept that you weren't getting anywhere fast, and it had all the crash protection of a beer can. But, it drove about the same empty and fully loaded, and had a capable 4wd drivetrain that was only limited by ground clearance. I wouldn't want to drive one again in heavy/fast traffic, but as a farm vehicle or for strictly slow around-town use, they seem just about perfect.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:30 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Long ago I had a 4wd van version of one of those as a work vehicle for about six months. It basically had a lawnmower engine, so you had to accept that you weren't getting anywhere fast, and it had all the crash protection of a beer can. But, it drove about the same empty and fully loaded, and had a capable 4wd drivetrain that was only limited by ground clearance. I wouldn't want to drive one again in heavy/fast traffic, but as a farm vehicle or for strictly slow around-town use, they seem just about perfect.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:30 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I also wouldn’t want to take one on a highway, but those kei trucks are at least fast enough that I almost got in an accident with one once when it zipped around a corner.
posted by eviemath at 11:02 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 11:02 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Wouldn't a side-by-side basically fulfill the same criteria/use-case as a kei truck, except for the cuteness bit? (The design cues of those things seem to Pit Viper sunglasses and RV paint schemes.)
posted by St. Oops at 11:41 AM on September 21, 2023
posted by St. Oops at 11:41 AM on September 21, 2023
I don't think that side by sides are street-legal. Very few have winter-capable all-weather enclosures. And most don't have the same amount of cargo space.
posted by Artful Codger at 2:50 PM on September 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Artful Codger at 2:50 PM on September 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
They're also annoyingly loud to drive
posted by jason_steakums at 4:08 PM on September 21, 2023
posted by jason_steakums at 4:08 PM on September 21, 2023
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