Dianne Feinstein (1933-2023)
September 29, 2023 6:25 AM Subscribe

“We went from two women senators when I ran for office in 1992 to 24 today – and I know that number will keep climbing.” Dianne Feinstein, whose three decades in the Senate made her the longest-serving female US senator in history, has died. [CNN]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta (199 comments total) 13 users marked this as a favorite

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Well I guess the "when will she retire?" speculation can end.
posted by pulposus at 6:27 AM on September 29, 2023 [52 favorites]

(Going to need people to be nice to each other in this thread!)

On the TODAY Show on NBNC this morning, they ran a segment on Jimmy Carter's 99th birthday right before they broke this news. These are two very long lives dedicated to public service.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:28 AM on September 29, 2023 [29 favorites]

Hoping for a quick smooth replacement with as little Republican fuckery as possible. What opportunities does her absense give them?
posted by Artw at 6:31 AM on September 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

Feinstein was my idea of a good Republican; in a sane, sustainable world her politics would have defined the conservative side of the policy sphere.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 6:32 AM on September 29, 2023 [89 favorites]

I think the current pattern of these people staying in office long past their prime is toxic and harmful. (If nothing else, it blocks anyone new from rising up.) I don't know if there needs to be a mandatory retirement age, but at least they could develop an institutional norm that encourages those retirements.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:32 AM on September 29, 2023 [47 favorites]

Institutional norms don't work. People with good intentions abide by them, people with bad intentions ignore them.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:37 AM on September 29, 2023 [117 favorites]

Echoing what others have said, I’m not happy but California deserves someone capable. If she’d retired a couple decades ago I’d have a more positive memory of her career because it wouldn’t be dragged down by the inaction and knowledge that someone younger wasn’t being stymied waiting for a retirement which never happened. Not as bad as RBG, but still a sad end.
posted by adamsc at 6:38 AM on September 29, 2023 [43 favorites]

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Oh geez what a cluster we’re in for.
posted by notyou at 6:39 AM on September 29, 2023 [4 favorites]

For her family and friends:

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For California, and more generally the future of the Democratic Party: finally.
posted by tzikeh at 6:40 AM on September 29, 2023 [26 favorites]

RIP to someone who did indeed do a certain amount of trailblazing but also did some very shitty stuff including to the queer community and tarnished the legacy she had by refusing to retire until she literally died.

(To be clear, that "RIP" is genuine, not sarcastic, but she's been a very public figure for a very long time and I think it's reasonable to point out that not everything she did was good.)
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:40 AM on September 29, 2023 [26 favorites]

Institutional norms don't work. People with good intentions abide by them, people with bad intentions ignore them.

LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

also, .
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:42 AM on September 29, 2023 [15 favorites]

If there’s a mandatory age for qualification at one end, there can be a mandatory age for disqualification on the other.

30 and 70 sound about right.
posted by notyou at 6:42 AM on September 29, 2023 [17 favorites]

Newsrom, previously: California Gov. Gavin Newsom would make an 'interim' choice if Dianne Feinstein vacates her Senate seat
posted by Artw at 6:43 AM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

Comment removed. Criticism of Feinstein is fine, hateful and insensitive comments are not, per the Content Policy.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:45 AM on September 29, 2023 [12 favorites]

Also booooooo hisssssss to all the people, including staffers and other Democrats, who propped up an increasingly non-competent, literally dying woman, they are ghouls and I hope they do some very serious soul searching.
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:46 AM on September 29, 2023 [83 favorites]

wenestvedt said “nice to each other”. We can do that while being critical of Feinstein.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:50 AM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

Now she's with her buddy Dan White again.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 6:50 AM on September 29, 2023 [12 favorites]

. for her and her family

🖕 to the rules and norms that enabled the poisoning of her legacy and the damage caused by the last few yrs.
posted by lalochezia at 6:51 AM on September 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

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posted by humbug at 6:51 AM on September 29, 2023

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posted by johnxlibris at 6:52 AM on September 29, 2023

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posted by hydropsyche at 6:52 AM on September 29, 2023

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posted by jim in austin at 6:52 AM on September 29, 2023

Another comment removed. No one said we have to nice about Feinstein's legacy. Instead request was made that community members be nice to each other, so let's do that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:54 AM on September 29, 2023 [13 favorites]

I appreciate she did what she did and it wasn't always easy.

(Or good.)

Now we get to look forward with total dread to whatever chucklefuck Gov Haircut appoints. Dude's had his worst Rolodex open lately.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:55 AM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

Feinstein got where she did by ignoring a bunch of people who told her she couldn't and shouldn't, so it's not too surprising she ignored those voices at the end of her life. It doesn't mean I'm happy about it, but I get it.

As George III said, what comes next?
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 6:57 AM on September 29, 2023 [24 favorites]

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posted by robotmachine at 6:58 AM on September 29, 2023

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I read that Gov Newsom said that he intended to appoint a Black woman, if she retired. Presumably he has someone specific in mind.
posted by Spike Glee at 6:59 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

Appoints?! What the fuck? DiFi was elected to one of the most important seats in the country, and someone can just walk on in her shoes based on a phone call? That's not democracy.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:00 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'd like to see a system in which someone like Feinstein (who was great in her prime) would have spent the last 20 years or so in a sort of elevated advisory position in some sort of upper chamber whose members don't vote on the floor but also aren't subjected to the misery and compromise of running for election anymore. Keep her on the payroll, let her enjoy perks and privileges, let her be as honest as only a politician who never has to campaign again can be, take advantage of her experience and connections, but only let younger senators vote. Not banished, but honored (and booted upstairs).
posted by pracowity at 7:02 AM on September 29, 2023 [20 favorites]

Um, yeah, that's pretty standard for senate vacancies: governor appoints an interim senator until a special election can be held for the successive senator. What did you have in mind?
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:02 AM on September 29, 2023 [82 favorites]

Presumably there will be a special election next year and the appointment is only until then.
posted by cmfletcher at 7:03 AM on September 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

Ok, an interim until there's a special election, that's not totally horrible then. Especially in the senate where an empty seat can make a hell of a difference.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:03 AM on September 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

I long ago accepted that everytime I heard her name she'd be doing something evil, like attacks on encryption, war mongering, etc.
posted by jeffburdges at 7:04 AM on September 29, 2023 [12 favorites]

RIP, she kept going forever but back in the day it was difficult to do what she did.

I read that Gov Newsom said that he intended to appoint a Black woman, if she retired. Presumably he has someone specific in mind.

Congratulations Kamala!
posted by kingdead at 7:04 AM on September 29, 2023 [10 favorites]

I believe he appoints a replacement in the short term and then there is a special election.

Here in Michigan we have a law that elected judges cannot run for a term in which they will turn 70. I think that would be desirable nationally - Feinstein was one of the first women to serve in the Senate but she clearly overstayed her competence which didn't serve her constituents or the rest of the country for that matter. Condolences to those who loved her but it was long past time for her to be out of office. I appreciate my senator Debbie Stabenow for choosing to retire when it is time.
posted by leslies at 7:04 AM on September 29, 2023 [10 favorites]

Dead Kennedys Intro is all I have to say. And like RBG - selfishly holding on til death and putting us in (theoretical) danger in these precarious times is a really shit thing to do. We need actively anti-corporate/pro-climate-change-policy who sees the horizon of the future and says Enough. Not like DiFi who tells children her on the way out knew better than those who would inherit (and those who are much much older who see it, too but her politicataracts blinded her (oh sorry "money").

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jy04ACD030
posted by symbioid at 7:04 AM on September 29, 2023 [20 favorites]

Appoints?!

What's the surprise? Isn't an appointment from the (elected) governor the way Senators are typically replaced until a special election can be held? There are a few exceptions, see this Pew webpage.
posted by aught at 7:05 AM on September 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

Hoping for a quick smooth replacement with as little Republican fuckery as possible. What opportunities does her absense give them?

It definitely gives Menendez some breathing room if there was any chance Senate Dems would make a stronger move than calling for him to resign.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:06 AM on September 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

There doesn't even need to be a special election. Her term was up in 2024. A governor appointing an interim is SOP. The Dems in California are already running - Schiff, Porter, etc.

It's generally assumed that a governor will appoint someone from the same party, but here in MA there is actually a law that says the governor has to appoint someone from the same party as the departed senator, because it was feared a Republican governor would replace Ted Kennedy with a Republican.
posted by briank at 7:11 AM on September 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

RIP, she kept going forever but back in the day it was difficult to do what she did.

Ah, yes, Feinstein back in the day: It’s true: As San Francisco mayor, Dianne Feinstein did repeatedly fly a Confederate flag in front of City Hall

Also:

Reminder that Dianne Feinstein, as mayor of San Francisco, was criticized by the city's LGBTQ population right after the murder of Harvey Milk for being a homophobic, anti-sex worker, pro-cop, opportunist politician. At the time right after Harvey Milk's murder, there was a lot of open homophobia in the streets of San Francisco. Much of this homophobic violence came from the cops. The cops felt further enabled by Feinstein's homophobic criticism of the LGBTQ community's "moral standards." Dianne Feinstein gave an infamously homophobic interview to Ladies Home Journal in 1979. She later apologized for it when she was running for election as mayor of San Francisco & realized that she had to get the LGBTQ community's votes.

posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:11 AM on September 29, 2023 [62 favorites]

> I read that Gov Newsom said that he intended to appoint a Black woman, if she retired. Presumably he has someone specific in mind.

Pressure is on Newsom to act fast to appoint Feinstein's temporary replacement - "Newsom had committed at one point to appointing a Black woman if he got a second Senate appointment, but he recently said that if Feinstein did not complete her term he would select a caretaker rather than Rep. Barbara Lee, the only Black woman who is running for Feinstein's seat. Lee excoriated Newsom over those comments. This will put Newsom in the remarkable position of selecting both of his state's senators. He elevated Sen. Alex Padilla in 2021 after Kamala Harris left the Senate to assume the vice presidency. Newsom made that selection roughly five weeks after the presidential election."
posted by kliuless at 7:11 AM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

Ok, an interim until there's a special election, that's not totally horrible then. Especially in the senate where an empty seat can make a hell of a difference.

Not even a special election. The regular election to fill Feinstein's seat takes place next November. She had already said she would not run again. Adam Schiff, Katie Porter, and Barbara Lee are already in the primary to win the nomination. So this would just be an interim position through December 2024.

If you read the article Artw posted above, Newsom said a couple weeks ago that, if given the opportunity, he would not appoint any of the Democrats currently running for the seat, because he wants to stay out of the primary. Given that he previously promised to appoint a black woman (after appointing a Latino man to replace Kamala Harris), I think he'll be criticized no matter who he picks.

As for Feinstein, anyone who served in the public eye for that long is bound to have a complicated legacy. For now, RIP.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:15 AM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

About fucking time.

Also, can we maybe press some elder abusse charges against the people who were basically Weekend at Bernies-ing her for the past many years? Because WTF?

I'm hopeful Newstrom had someone already picked and will anounce the replacement in the next day or two. No need to give the R's any more than they already have.

I can't even say she lived long enough to become the villain, because she was never a hero.

She aggressively prosecuted doctors who violated California's anti-abortion laws, and decades later seemed genuinely baffled when people suggested that back then she should have had different priorities. She said that the doctors were "committing abortion on women" so of course she spent her prosecutorial time going after them.

And she worked to keep the Confederate flag flying above San Fransisco city hall.

She stands with Strom Thrumand as a Platonic example of why we need mandatory retirement at 65 for all government positions.

I also hope she doesn't give that scumbag Menendez any breathing room at all. Both states have Democratic governors they should be able to replace both of them in a day.
posted by sotonohito at 7:16 AM on September 29, 2023 [38 favorites]

Whoever gets appointed for the interim gets a huge leg up at election time and Newsom the little weasel has signaled he wants to pick someone to the right of (and to the white of?) Barbara Lee who is our beloved long- time Bay Area assemblyperson who is running.

What gives you that impression? I think it's reasonable for Newsom to appoint a caretaker rather than put a thumb on the scale for any particular candidate at this stage of the race. Lee is great but she's polling third. Appointing her would give her a huge incumbency boost, which would be unfair to supporters of Schiff and Porter.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:19 AM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

All respect to Rep Lee, but she's 77.

We need to stop putting retirees into government.
posted by sotonohito at 7:22 AM on September 29, 2023 [64 favorites]

Well I guess the "when will she retire?" speculation can end.

My own prediction on that front was that it was going to get to the point where Dianne Feinstein's staff, which was clearly far too invested in propping her up, was going to keep the news of even her death under wraps and have her stuffed and animatronized and operate her by remote control rather than resign her seat.
posted by orange swan at 7:23 AM on September 29, 2023 [12 favorites]

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posted by oozy rat in a sanitary zoo at 7:24 AM on September 29, 2023

Unfortunately this gives the Republicans another bargaining chip during the shutdown, as they have threatened to prevent seating a Democratic replacement to Feinstein's seat on the Judiciary Committee (and indeed they already prevented seating a temporary replacement back in April). There's not a lot that Senate Democrats can do about that because the Senate rules are so terrible, and if the 10 Republican members of the Judiciary Committee work in lockstep, then they can block all judicial appointments.
posted by jedicus at 7:25 AM on September 29, 2023 [12 favorites]

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posted by mumimor at 7:28 AM on September 29, 2023

I'm glad DF's refusal to retire won't have as much of a deleterious impact as RBG's. But it was still very, very bad.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:33 AM on September 29, 2023 [7 favorites]

I'd like to see a system in which someone like Feinstein would have spent the last 20 years or so in a sort of elevated advisory position in some sort of upper chamber whose members don't vote on the floor Keep her on the payroll, let her enjoy perks and privileges
pracowity

You've just described the Canadian Senate
posted by yyz at 7:34 AM on September 29, 2023 [10 favorites]

if feinstein had been interested in legacy these debates about whom should be appointed to fill her seat would be moot. she could have chosen to mentor someone to eventually assume her seat and worked whatever levers she had at her disposal to promote that person within the state. harry reid, e.g., selected cortez masto to take over his nevada machine, and handed off control well before he was incapable of doing the job. pelosi, for another, promoted jeffries to succeed her and stepped aside rather than be pushed out.

whatever legacy feinstein may have had is in shambles because she wasn't interested in preserving it, only in retaining her own status. clinging to her position long beyond her ability to meet its responsibilities made her a pathetic figure in the end, and recasts her historic achievements as being all about her own personal path to power
posted by logicpunk at 7:36 AM on September 29, 2023 [45 favorites]

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posted by potrzebie at 7:36 AM on September 29, 2023

The problem is that Republicans will filibuster any appointments to the Judiciary committee to effectively block any further judicial appointments by Biden.
posted by interogative mood at 7:38 AM on September 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

Can Biden bypass that if the government is in shutdown?
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:42 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

Critiquing Feinstein's career is not hard, because her career was almost entirely public and as a result her track record is well known, and her track record is at best mediocre and probably much worse than that.

She was wealthy and small-c-conservative and she almost always governed and legislated for the benefit of her wealthy, small-c-conservative friends and community, whether she was Mayor of San Francisco (where she was consistently taking measures against the gay and black communities and where she was instrumental into making San Francisco the unsustainable richie-rich city it is today), or as a senator, where she was mostly the sort of person who governed for rich people doing rich things, because she (and her billionaire husband) were rich people doing rich things.

She of course had her moments of decency: the assault weapons ban in 1994, for example, was a rare example of her working hard to get a good law passed. She was generally okay on foreign policy and was one of the louder voices pushing for the Iran deal, and her work on the investigatory committee into CIA torture during the Iraq War was genuinely laudable (albeit coming after a career's worth of enabling the CIA to be awful).

But, generally, she spent her career defending the powerful from the powerless and demanding (and getting) plaudits for being not entirely terrible and occasionally willing to vote for better legislation other people worked hard to advance. On balance, she was a net negative to society, so we should be thankful she is finally gone as a political force.
posted by mightygodking at 7:43 AM on September 29, 2023 [46 favorites]

Lee is 77 and sassed King of San Francisco Newsom, if you're a black woman on this thread get in touch with Gavin because you have more of a chance than she does. Still think he'll have Kamala back though--that or she'll have to face being dropped from the ticket in 2024. Democrats hate that woman!
posted by kingdead at 7:43 AM on September 29, 2023

Maybe McConnell's own rapid decline will prevent him from effectively organizing Republican opposition to Feinstein's replacement.
posted by star gentle uterus at 7:46 AM on September 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

Anyone can overstay their welcome. Recognizing that you've done so is the key.
posted by tommasz at 7:47 AM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

It's insane that we don't have age limits for both Presidents and Congress. I have yet to hear a good argument for allowing someone to serve into their 80s.
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:55 AM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

Critiquing Feinstein's career is not hard, because her career was almost entirely public and as a result her track record is well known, and her track record is at best mediocre and probably much worse than that.

Labor historian Erik Loomis does a pretty good recounting in his obituary. He ultimately calls her the senator with the lowest wins above replacement value.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:59 AM on September 29, 2023 [21 favorites]

Odd morning. I remember voting against her in the last primary -- yes I know now, he sucks -- knowing very little about de Leon except that he was a LA politician who (at the time) did not have any very public detractors and was not eleventy-billion years old. I gave people half a dozen reasons why Feinstein wouldn't have my vote last time around (the age thing wasn't a top reason; the dementia whispers didn't start until after her most recent re-election), but I think the main one was constituent services. I wrote an email about an issue that concerned me to my two CA senators. The Kamala Harris office responded in a reasonable period of time with a thoughtful if somewhat useless response (yay Democrats!), even though she was a first-term senator who was gearing up for a run at the presidency and had a lot on her plate. The Dianne Feinstein office replied more than six months after Kamala Harris with a "fuck off this won't affect you anyway" letter (boo, Democrats). I remember being really annoyed at the time, and that sense only increased after the third big news piece about how Dianne Feinstein's staff was running the show. Democrats have an idolatry problem, where we start with "this marginalized person became the first of their kind to achieve this powerful position. Their path was a lot harder than it should have been, and they deserve respect." That's fine! But at some point it gets weaponized into living sainthood, and suddenly the saint is not honored to serve, we are supposed to be honored to have the saint in a position of power. It's frustrating, and it backfires on Dems a lot, which I think is why the response to Feinstein's troubles has become so rude in the last few years.

Anyway, there's little justice in politics, but my biggest spite-hope is that all the folks who propped her up for the last term find their experience is a black mark on their record. (Frankly, if I were a politician, the last thing I would do is want to put one of those ghouls on my staff.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:03 AM on September 29, 2023 [23 favorites]

I'll remember her for the Mojave Preserve, and the South Bay Salt Pond Restoration Project, two important and durable conservation achievements.
posted by the Real Dan at 8:06 AM on September 29, 2023 [14 favorites]

I was under the impression that most of the political tea-leaf readers are saying the interim replacement is most likely to be Maxine Waters, unless she doesn't want it for whatever reason.
posted by kyrademon at 8:11 AM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

This sizes it up pretty well: obit from LGM.

Glad to see her gone—she was a lackluster senator overall.
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 8:13 AM on September 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

You've just described the Canadian Senate

On sober second thought, I suppose so.
posted by pracowity at 8:30 AM on September 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

I'm a Californian in my 50s. I have a relative, one generation older, who hated the late life criticism of Feinstein. She saw Feinstein as the sort of person who was opening doors, running for office and stepping up to public leadership when women (including my relative) were facing such obvious decision on even the simplest of life choices. Also of note: A key part of her first race Feinstein also made her entry into politics in 1969 SF by working with the homosexual community. Feinstein is (was) really a personal inspiration of her.

This has led to some curt words between us, because not only do I think Feinstein should have resigned, not only do I think she should not have run in 2018, I think she's been a very replaceable senator pretty much since she arrived. She was on the "moderate" side of the California Democratic party, and even in 1992 when she was first elected, Barbara Boxer was running at the same time and proving you didn't need to be that centrist to win statewide as a woman.

Can Biden bypass that if the government is in shutdown?

No.

There are Senate rules that allow the Senate to bypass the judiciary committee and go straight to a floor vote if necessary. Whether they will be used or Sinemanchin will mutter about "bipartisanship" to stop that alternative is anyone's guess.
posted by mark k at 8:32 AM on September 29, 2023 [7 favorites]

It's amazing (to me) that we kept electing her. She was still ridiculously popular. The California Democratic Party endorsed her opponent in the general (who was also a Democrat. That's what you get with a jungle primary. Shit's weird) and she won by an 8 point margin.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 8:32 AM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

Two bits of perspective, from someone who once worked in a Congressional office and who is now dealing with a person sliding into dementia.

One, yes, sure, a politician's staff will include some people who are rank opportunists and will latch onto and prop up a powerful person as long as possible. But most -- even the opportunists -- respect, genuinely like and even love the elected official they work for. (Politicians are good at inspiring admiration and love; it's how they get there.) I can see where it would be exceedingly hard to tell them it's time to hang it up. Even if that's the loving thing to do.

Two, for those of us who haven't watched it unfold -- dementia can be sudden. I've watched my loved one go from sharp as a tack, competent if a bit forgetful, at age 89, to barely functional at 90. I haven't watched Feinstein carefully but it's possible that when she last ran for office five years ago, she came across to her staff and her supporters as capable, if not quite what she once was.

None of this is to say she was a useful public servant these last few years, or that California and the country wouldn't have been better served by someone else. Just saying it's hard, with someone you're close to.
posted by martin q blank at 8:34 AM on September 29, 2023 [32 favorites]

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posted by eirias at 8:38 AM on September 29, 2023

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Live your life so that when you die no one thinks it was about time and then has to hold their tongue.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:39 AM on September 29, 2023 [23 favorites]

(I liked Feinstein!)
posted by Going To Maine at 8:41 AM on September 29, 2023

she did it her way?
posted by kliuless at 8:44 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

In all seriousness: RIP, but "You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the Name of God, go!".

My over under as somebody with marginal knowledge of the CDP: State Controller Malia Cohen. She's young (45), Black woman, a Newsom person (first job was as Newsom's field organizer, then his secretary), and a part of the Nob Hill clique. London Breed is less likely; Barbara Lee is even less likely.

My father floated the idea that Gavin Newsom is going to broker a deal with Biden to appoint Kamala Harris to the Senate seat in exchange for Gavin becoming Vice President, at which point Biden will be retired clearing the way for Newsom to run in 2024. We call it the "California Cuckoo-ka-choo Coup" (TM, in the rare timeline where this actually happens).
posted by LeRoienJaune at 8:58 AM on September 29, 2023 [23 favorites]

I will politely leave it at a . and say she was a mixed bag.

I'm not sure what the heck kind of mess is going to happen now, though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:00 AM on September 29, 2023

Picking someone who's already running for the Senate seat (Porter, Schiff, or Lee), would be an extremely divisive move and not help Newsom. It might not even help the person who was appointed, depending on the level of backlash.

Lee would have been an excellent interim pick if she weren't already running.
posted by mark k at 9:06 AM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

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I guess she won the cover of The New Yorker, in the end.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:09 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

Kamala Harris polls at about 80% approval among Democrats. Democrats don’t hate her. She isn’t going back to the Senate. That would create a vacancy in the VP office and then the Speaker of the House would be President if something happened to Biden.
posted by interogative mood at 9:15 AM on September 29, 2023 [26 favorites]

it was a mistake in the first place to make someone from california vp and it would be a colossal mistake to do it again but also the world is a place that does not work in a way i understand.

i don't think it is slash was a mistake for "appoint someone from a swing state!" reasons, as based on no evidence i think the "home field advantage for vp" thing is overblown. instead i think it is slash was a mistake because california is a machine politics state and the politicians in said machine are not great.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:17 AM on September 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

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posted by MonsieurPEB at 9:17 AM on September 29, 2023

She was an inspiration to many who will also be working until they die ❤️
posted by Philipschall at 9:19 AM on September 29, 2023 [33 favorites]

i thought the proper response to feinstein's passing was to say "ah, well" in a semi-thoughtful way and then change the topic, but then i saw philipschall's comment above
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:21 AM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

Hoping for a quick smooth replacement with as little Republican fuckery as possible. What opportunities does her absence give them?

My sense is that Senator Dianne Feinstein's refusal to step down before death had more to do with Democratic fuckery within the state party in California than anything the Republicans were doing. There was a faction in the state party that wanted Dianne Feinstein to remain in the Senate seat so that the seat could be kept warm for Adam Schiff. Governor Gavin Newsom was not part of that faction and will presumably appoint somebody who is not Adam Schiff to the seat (possibly an interim "caretaker" who has no desire to have the Senate seat permanently). With Feinstein's passing, I think this throws a major monkey wrench in the plans of a faction within the California Democratic Party that was dead set on getting Adam Schiff in the seat, come hell or high water. Because we all know, if you do something "come hell or high water" these days, hell and high water is what you're gonna get.

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posted by jonp72 at 9:22 AM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

Here in Michigan we have a law that elected judges cannot run for a term in which they will turn 70. I think that would be desirable nationally

The median age of the Senate is 65. I doubt they will voluntarily vote to limit themselves to just 5 more years.
posted by srboisvert at 9:22 AM on September 29, 2023 [8 favorites]

Lee would have been an excellent interim pick if she weren't already running.

Lee would indeed have been a great interim pick. She could serve for a year or so. I don't want to elect another senator who won't complete her first term before turning 80 however.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:23 AM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

In 1978, Feinstein was elected president of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors. This placed her first in line if something happened to the mayor. Later that year, Dan White...Dianne Feinstein was now mayor of San Francisco. In fact, it was Feinstein who found the bodies...Feinstein was never a liberal. She was closer to Dan White than Harvey Milk or George Moscone. In fact, she had mentored White.

Is LG&M doing what I think he's doing? Is there any previous journalism on that idea?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 9:30 AM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

Now she's with her buddy Dan White again.

WOW. There's not being nice about a legacy and then there's this grade-A conspiracy shit. Woof.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:33 AM on September 29, 2023 [16 favorites]

Theoretically term limits would achieve the same thing without putting an upper cap on when you start? If being old was seen as a restriction to running it might even lessen that as there’s no incentive to pick someone who can dig in for a multi decade run.
posted by Artw at 9:33 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

Whoever gets appointed for the interim gets a huge leg up at election time and Newsom the little weasel has signaled he wants to pick someone to the right of (and to the white of?) Barbara Lee who is our beloved long- time Bay Area assemblyperson who is running.

I lived in Berkeley for years & was a long-time Barbara Lee voter, but if she gets Dianne Feinstein's Senate seat and completes a full term, she will be serving until January 3, 2031, at which point she'll be 84 years old. In addition, I think there's a possibility that if Barbara Lee vacates her Berkeley seat, you will actually get somebody less progressive to succeed her, whereas I think almost any of the three major candidates right now would be more progressive than Feinstein. (And I say this even though I blame Schiff as a major reason for why Dianne Feinstein wouldn't step down.)
posted by jonp72 at 9:36 AM on September 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

Interesting that one of the Related Posts links at the bottom here is Has Rep. Barbara Lee just destroyed her political career?, and it's dated September 15, 2001. She was the 1 NO in a 422-1 vote authorizing use of force in Afghanistan.

I do think putting a 77-year-old in as an interim, when so much harm was done by Feinstein in her declining years (her behavior in SCOTUS hearings was utterly abominable), is the wrong move, but damn that Lee vote aged a bit differently than people thought it would.
posted by mcstayinskool at 9:36 AM on September 29, 2023 [26 favorites]

The assault rifle ban, the Respect for Marriage Act (lead sponsor), and some of her work for the environment were probably her key legislative achievements. And for younger folks I think it might be difficult to realize how difficult and important it was for a woman to achieve elected office in her early days.

.
posted by gwint at 9:39 AM on September 29, 2023 [8 favorites]

Air traffic controllers are forced to retire at 56 (by federal mandate no less); arguably, the job of coordinating a country as a whole has the potential to be more dangerous that coordinating air traffic. 56 is my personal preference for an age limit.
posted by furnace.heart at 9:39 AM on September 29, 2023 [8 favorites]

Interesting that one of the Related Posts links at the bottom here is Has Rep. Barbara Lee just destroyed her political career?, and it's dated September 15, 2001. She was the 1 NO in a 422-1 vote authorizing use of force in Afghanistan.

I do think putting a 77-year-old in as an interim, when so much harm was done by Feinstein in her declining years (her behavior in SCOTUS hearings was utterly abominable), is the wrong move, but damn that Lee vote aged a bit differently than people thought it would.

I can't find an image of it on the Web right now, but The Boondocks comic strip got it right at the time by praising Lee as a lone voice of reason against warmongers rushing to judgment.
posted by jonp72 at 9:39 AM on September 29, 2023 [7 favorites]

She was a public servant to the end. My opinion about her not retiring sooner aside, her career was phenomenal and undeniably important...locally, nationally and internationally. She was a controversial figure in the LGBTQ movement, but nobody can take away her decades of influence and importance to the world. Her work on the Senate Select Committee on intelligence (PDF) regarding the CIA's torture regime being one of those things that legacies are made of. The appointment of Brett Kavanaugh, one of the counterpoints to the many good things she's done.

I have always respected her. Despite voting for someone else in the last 3 primaries, she earned the respect (and, also, the criticism) that she got.

I see some questions about what happens next, and if you're not familiar with US or California politics, I can provide a brief summary:

The most immediate impact of her passing is that her seat on the Senate Judiciary Committee is now vacant, which, because of the often absurd Senate rules, means that Biden's judicial appointments will be once again frozen. The Judiciary Committee has a Democratic Party majority of 11-10, now 10-10, with Republican members obstinately refusing to appoint judges, as they are wont to do. She already missed close to 60 votes, due to her shingles illness and subsequent complications, so this will be an opportunity for the Republicans to again deny Biden his judges.

As for her successor...in the US, when a Senator resigns, dies or otherwise is unable to complete their term, the Governor of the State that Senator represents appoints an interim Senator. California's current Governor is Gavin Newsom, who shares Feinstein's pedigree as a former mayor of the city of San Francisco. Feinstein's term expires in 2025, so whomever Governor Newsom appoints will hold the job until the primaries and election of that year. She had already announced she would not be running for re-election, and 3 Democratic House Representatives: Katie Porter, Adam Schiff and Barbara Lee, are already campaigning for the role. Newsom has mentioned that he intends to appoint a black woman to the Senate in the event of Senator Feinstein's inability to carry out her term, so we'll see what happens. Regardless of who he appoints, the decision is going to be a propaganda feast for the talking heads - raw meat for everyone from fascists to Progressives to chime in, which is both par for the course, but also regrettable because Newsom will almost certainly appoint a highly-qualified and capable replacement. If he selects one of the current candidates for the role, he's tipping the scales outright for the 2025 election.

Her decision to remain in Congress, instead of retiring, will definitely have ramifications. Fortunately, California Democrats are well-organized and politically savvy, so any kind of circus surrounding the process will certainly (and typically) be ginned up by Republicans and the media who always frame things from the Republican perspective.

Thank you for your service, Senator Feinstein. My condolences to your family as they celebrate your life.
posted by Chuffy at 9:42 AM on September 29, 2023 [10 favorites]

Lee would have been an excellent interim pick if she weren't already running.

Maxine Waters could retire a Senator in 2025 and I wouldn't mind that at all.
posted by Chuffy at 9:48 AM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

WOW. There's not being nice about a legacy and then there's this grade-A conspiracy shit. Woof.

Not really. She was Dan White's BFF on the board.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 9:51 AM on September 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

I know this is going to sound wild but hang with me: Feinstein actually was not a clairvoyant who could see the future.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:53 AM on September 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

That would create a vacancy in the VP office and then the Speaker of the House would be President if something happened to Biden.

Of course Biden would quickly propose a successor to Harris under the terms of the 25th Amendment, in the same way that Ford (1973) and Rockefeller (1974) became VP. Both were confirmed by healthy margins despite Democratic majorities in both houses, but I agree with your implication that there's pretty much zero chance of the Republican-controlled House of Representatives approving any nominee he puts forward. Not only for designating one of their own as the next in line for the presidency, but also taking away the presently crucial role of the VP in casting tie-breaking votes in the Senate. The fun would then be in who exactly would get to serve as Speaker, since the Freedom Caucus types would love to oust McCarthy, and the overall GOP caucus is filled with any number of self-serving opportunists who would want to jockey for the position of Shadow President, potentially making the Year of the Five Emperors look like a time of placid decorum in comparison.
posted by hangashore at 9:59 AM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

She was a public servant to the end? She was physically and mentally unable to effectively represent tens of millions of constituents for years and would not step aside to allow them representation. Remember when Feinstein acted confused and hugged Lindsey Graham after he led confirmation hearings to ram yet another hard right justice onto SCOTUS? That was 3 years ago.
posted by airing nerdy laundry at 9:59 AM on September 29, 2023 [21 favorites]

> She was a controversial figure in the LGBTQ movement,

hey. hey. that word controversial is doing a lot of work in that statement, a whole lot of work, it is a load-bearing word and the load it is bearing is not great. pretty bad load.

saying "controversial" here is picking a side and are you certain you want to pick that side. like sure find a way to talk about feinstein here on the occasion of her passing in some positive ways that's totally fine but absolutely do not minimize the suffering of people she harmed. that is bad. bad thing. don't do it.

this has been your bombastic lowercase pronouncement for the day.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 10:00 AM on September 29, 2023 [31 favorites]

Newsom has mentioned that he intends to appoint a black woman to the Senate in the event of Senator Feinstein's inability to carry out her term, so we'll see what happens. Regardless of who he appoints, the decision is going to be a propaganda feast for the talking heads - raw meat for everyone from fascists to Progressives to chime in, which is both par for the course, but also regrettable because Newsom will almost certainly appoint a highly-qualified and capable replacement. If he selects one of the current candidates for the role, he's tipping the scales outright for the 2025 election.

I don't necessarily think Newsom is tipping the scales outright, so much as favoring Katie Porter as the candidate he dislikes the least. By saying that he will appoint a "black woman" to the seat without any further specifics, he removes himself from any specific obligation to appoint Rep. Lee. I don't know whether he opposes appointing Rep. Lee more because he thinks she's too old or too progressive, but it's probably a case of "Why not both?" In addition, by appointing a black woman who is not Rep. Lee who will just be a "caretaker" for the seat, he is also basically saying "fuck you!" to all the people who propped up Feinstein Weekend-at-Bernies-style to keep the seat warm for Adam Schiff.

It's become less common in recent years, but I still believe that the majority of interim appointments for Senate seats are still filled by "caretakers" who don't run for the open Senate seat. And that's probably what Newsom will do, as some of the insider articles posted in this thread have already indicated. In fact, agreeing to serve in the "caretaker" role might be the precondition for getting the Senate appointment for the first place. It's definitely the politically wise thing for Newsom to do as de facto head of his state party, if he wants to prevent factional fights in the party from getting worse.
posted by jonp72 at 10:01 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

Separate from my feelings regarding Sen. Feinstein's career, Ramsey Hunt syndrome is a bastard and I'm glad she's no longer in pain.
.

If Newsom wanted to appoint a Black woman as an interim caretaker, maybe (retired California Superior Court Judge) LaDoris Hazzard Cordell (73, liberal Democrat , author, lesbian) would take the gig.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:02 AM on September 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

I met Feinstein very briefly during her failed 1990 bid for California Governer at some kind of Rock the Vote event that my friends and I had ditched high school to attend on a local college campus, and it was an eye-opening and formative and educational experience about how so many career politicians often aren't really normal human beings.

As in she was there trying to court younger left-leaning voters and was divisive and diffident during stand up meet and greets and Q/A and at some point she basically got booed off of the music/concert stage. I remember watching progressive people get into it with her about abortion and LGBTQ issues even back then and it always left a sour note in my memory about the whole experience and politicians in general.

It was blatantly obvious to me she didn't want to be there at all pandering to Gen X hoi polloi youth like me and my peers and the whole event did not go over well at all.

I've always wondered if any other campaign stops and events were like this, and how much of this had anything to do with the failed 1990 campaign.

Anyway, RIP. And good luck to the rest of us in this horrible timeline, because, oof, we're going to need it.
posted by loquacious at 10:08 AM on September 29, 2023 [19 favorites]

NYT on Newsom's promise to appoint a Black woman

It also puts new pressure on Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will chose someone to fill her seat. Mr. Newsom, whose profile has risen in national Democratic politics in recent weeks as he has traveled the country on behalf of President Biden’s re-election campaign, had come under fire for announcing he would not pick any of the declared candidates in filling any vacancy, so as not to elevate them and give them an advantage.

Mr. Newsom had originally promised to pick a Black woman to fill the position if it opened up, and many Democrats thought he would turn to Representative Barbara Lee, a progressive. But Mr. Newsom said he would pick a caretaker senator instead. “I don’t want to get involved in the primary,” he said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”

My non-expert observation is that Schiff has the inside track on the seat.

On the other thread, if you're going to promulgate some conspiracy theory of Feinstein and Dan White please post some backing material or references. Dan White's murder of Milk and Moscone had huge political implications for both City Hall and the LGBT community. It is grotesquely irresponsible to suggest that Feinstein had something to do with it without credible evidence. Here, I'll go first

"I remember it, actually, as if it was yesterday. And it was one of the hardest moments, if not the hardest moment, of my life," Feinstein said Tuesday. "It was a devastating moment. For San Francisco, it was a day of infamy." ,,, "Look," she said, "I couldn't sit in George Moscone's chair for seven years, and some of it, I think, is that I became mayor as a product of assassination. I had run, and I had not won, and that was a very difficult thing for me to reconcile in my own mind."

There's a lot more, it's a 2008 article worth reading.
posted by Nelson at 10:09 AM on September 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

She was physically and mentally unable to effectively represent tens of millions of constituents for years and would not step aside to allow them representation.

I agree with you, and I still said it. The end, for her, was later than the end to you and me. She died during her term in the Senate. Like RBG, and dozens of others in government who should just retire the millionaires they became, I don't know why she didn't step down long ago, but she didn't. Nothing you or I says about that will take that away.

I voted against her 3 times...didn't like her politics. Respect is not the same as admiration. I can argue that Tom Brady is trash, but can't deny he was a great quarterback...
posted by Chuffy at 10:11 AM on September 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

Senate could have a Carousel ceremony for the 70yos, yes
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:14 AM on September 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

Wait, so all this time that people were yelling for Feinstein to retire, she knew that if she did, the Republicans wouldn't seat a D on the Judiciary committee, thus ending all chances of Biden appointing additional judges? Am I missing something?

The point a lot folks are making is she could have retired during Obama's administration and enjoyed her final years. Instead of this walking dead ending.

I agree with the calls for a age limit. I think it should be 75, given current medical care.
posted by KaizenSoze at 10:25 AM on September 29, 2023 [11 favorites]

Newsom should appoint himself and then he can run for President as he clearly is already.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:29 AM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

She died during her term in the Senate Yep, she died in office, that's the appropriate description not "she remained a public servant to the end".

Regarding your deep respect, that's your choice. She was a disgustingly corrupt lawmaker, especially when awarding defense contracts that benefitted her and her husband. She angrily and condescendingly berated young climate activists. im not stupider then dogshit.
posted by airing nerdy laundry at 10:29 AM on September 29, 2023 [11 favorites]

saying "controversial" here is picking a side and are you certain you want to pick that side.

Is there another word that you would propose?

controversial
kŏn″trə-vûr′shəl, -sē-əl
adjective
Of, producing, or marked by controversy.
Fond of controversy; disputatious.
Relating to, or consisting of, controversy; disputatious; polemical.

controversy
kŏn′trə-vûr″sē
noun
A dispute, especially a public one, between sides holding opposing views.
The act or practice of engaging in such disputes.
Disputation; debate; agitation of contrary opinions; a formal or prolonged debate; dispute.
posted by Chuffy at 10:33 AM on September 29, 2023

Regarding your deep respect, that's your choice

I guess "respect" is the wrong word. I am using it incorrectly. I don't know another word for it. I'm not dancing on her grave, but I'm also not crying over her clearing the way for someone better. She was a pioneer, and she did some things that paved the way for people. I didn't like her, but I also just wanted to convey that she opened doors.
posted by Chuffy at 10:38 AM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

Is there another word that you would propose?

The point is that using "controversial" in the context of her position on LGBTQ issues serves to hide that the actual historic record is pretty clear - she was genuinely awful on them, in ways she didn't need to be. As per Loomis:

Feinstein was never a liberal. She was closer to Dan White than Harvey Milk or George Moscone. In fact, she had mentored White. For Feinstein, the counterculture was the problem. Just a few days before White murdered Milk and Moscone, Jim Jones and his followers had committed mass suicide in Guyana, but that was a San Francisco-based cult. Feinstein took a lesson out of all of this—the counterculture caused problems and so did leftists. She believed that tough rule from the center—whatever the center meant at a given time—was the way to promote order. What this meant in the context of San Francisco is that she oversaw a crackdown on gay rights, partially closing the door that Milk and Moscone opened. In an interview with Ladies Home Journal, she said “It’s fine for us to live here respecting each other’s lifestyles, but it doesn’t mean imposing them on others,” language that would become classic in the anti-gay movement, when “imposing them on others” meant “being a person in public.”

Feinstein proceeded to fire the police chief who had been an ally of Milk and Moscone and replace him with an old-line Irish Catholic who declared open cop season on the gays, including wearing t-shirts that read “Free Dan White” that were visible under their uniforms. After White was convicted only of manslaughter, lesbian activists led a march through downtown that turned violent. Feinstein publicly blamed “outside agitators.”[1] When Cruising was released in 1980, which is a terrible film, Feinstein had its showing moved outside a gay neighborhood so that they wouldn’t “riot.” When her Task Force on Equal Benefits recommended that city benefits be given to the partners of gay workers, Feinstein simply ignored them and refused to do it. I mean, she was really awful on gay rights as mayor, in a way that was not politically necessary in San Francisco. Political commenters at the time, such as a 1983 discussion of her first term by Ron Nowicki in The North American Review tended to apologize for her relations with the gay community and we should take all of this in context of the incredible homophobia of America in the 1980s. But still, in the specific context of San Francisco, Feinstein made all sorts of unforced errors on gay rights.

posted by NoxAeternum at 10:44 AM on September 29, 2023 [24 favorites]

“RIP Dianne Feinstein,” Doktor Zoom, The Wonkette, 29 September 2023

P.S. Despite the masthead, this is a straight-ahead obituary which made me change my mind about being angry with Feinstein.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:50 AM on September 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

*
posted by aspo at 10:50 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

If Republicans block a replacement of Dianne Feinstein on the Senate Judiciary Committee, it doesn't actually matter.

Democrats can move to discharge judicial nominations from committee with a majority vote of 50 Senators + VP once the vacancy is filled, sending them straight to a floor vote where they can't be filibustered. Kentanji Brown Jackson was appointed to the Supreme Court with a discharge vote.
posted by Hollywood Upstairs Medical College at 10:54 AM on September 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

Senate could have a Carousel ceremony for the 70yos, yes

This is the CSPAN I would watch.
posted by mazola at 10:58 AM on September 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

As a friend posted: I am sad that I’m not sad she is gone. I wish she had ended her official role much much sooner.

Still, I admire much of what she represented.

.
posted by samthemander at 10:59 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

As someone who lived in CA during a chunk of her term, . but also, if this is what it took to get her to leave her seat, fine. Interested to see who Newsom appoints in the interim, and hope that we'll see Senator Porter a few years from now *knocks on wood*
posted by May Kasahara at 11:00 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

The way that LGM obit kicks off with a big chunk on how Jewish, so very Jewish, don't be fooled by the Catholic schools on her resume, she is JEWISH...and then goes on to not very obliquely imply that she benefited from people attempting to bomb her house, and then either had Dan White assassinate Moscone and Milk or just knew about it and did nothing so she could be mayor...boy howdy what in the Alex Jones is going on over there?

Dianne Feinstein's Jewishness is only mentioned in the 2nd paragraph in a brief summary of her family background, then never mentioned again in the rest of the obituary. As for the bombing attempt, Dianne Feinstein was the target of a bomb sent by the extreme leftist New World Liberation Front, which had been doing several terrorist bombings per year in the western United States between 1974 and 1978. The bombing attempt is relevant, because it can explain why Feinstein would be very anti-leftist and hostile to the progressive faction in her party, as late as the year 2023, even though left-wing bombings are pretty much a non-factor compared to how common they were in the 1970s.

As for Dan White, where in the ever living cinnamon toast fuck does it say that Feinstein directed Dan White to assassinate George Moscone and Harvey Milk? Feinstein may have metaphorically and opportunistically stepped over the bodies of Moscone and Milk to become mayor, but there's no indication in the LGM obituary that she had anything to do with the actual assassination.

One important factor that the LGM obituary unfortunately does omit is that Feinstein probably lost the 1975 Democratic primary for mayor of San Francisco because of electoral fraud in support of George Moscone by the People's Temple and its leader Reverend Jim Jones (who called himself an "apostolic socialist" at the time).

If you look at the New World Liberation bombing and the People's Temple's fraud against Dianne Feinstein together, you can definitely see why Dianne Feinstein ended up politically where she did. Maybe she didn't have literal PTSD, but the 1970s certainly gave her political PTSD. So when she gets yelled at by a 16-year-old climate change protester, she can't shrug it off, because she doesn't see an over-exuberant teenage kid. She sees ultra-leftist bombers and kill-crazy socialist cultists.

That's why Dianne Feinstein was the worst "wins above replacement" Democratic Senator in the U.S. Senate. The median voter in California is left-leaning enough that replacing her with a completely average normie Democrat rando would have been an improvement.
posted by jonp72 at 11:00 AM on September 29, 2023 [15 favorites]

Reminder that Dianne Feinstein, as mayor of San Francisco, was criticized by the city's LGBTQ population right after the murder of Harvey Milk for being a homophobic, anti-sex worker, pro-cop, opportunist politician. At the time right after Harvey Milk's murder, there was a lot of open homophobia in the streets of San Francisco. Much of this homophobic violence came from the cops. The cops felt further enabled by Feinstein's homophobic criticism of the LGBTQ community's "moral standards." Dianne Feinstein gave an infamously homophobic interview to Ladies Home Journal in 1979. She later apologized for it when she was running for election as mayor of San Francisco & realized that she had to get the LGBTQ community's votes.

I don't think this issue is nearly as black-and-white as this twitter thread tries to make out. I'm not even a Feinstein fan, but I've lived in the Bay Area all my life and there were numerous material things Feinstein did in support of LGBTQ+ people. Paul Lorch* was the editor of the San Francisco Standard, and when Feinstein crushed a recall election vote that paper interviews her aide Peter Nardoza (who was gay) pointing out that she had support from the Toklas Club but not the (Harvey) Milk Club. She wrote an ordinance legalizing all private sex acts in California as a San Francisco supervisor. Harvey Milk did not like her-for good reason- but she supported his landmark gay rights bill, casting the deciding vote. And under her leadership, San Francisco put together a huge public-private effort to fight AIDs- even as she pissed off a lot of people by closing the bathhouses.

She was one of 14 senators who voted against the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996. She opposed "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". She was a co-sponsor of the Equality Act.

She was in no way my ideal politician, but a twitter thread pulling from only two publications doesn't pain a full picture on the things she did and did not do as a politician. I'm frustrated to be in the position of somewhat defending her, because she was not my ideal, at all. But California politics, and especially Bay Area politics, is way more complicated than people outside understand. It seems any sort of nuance or deep thinking is quickly disappearing from public discourse, including on Metafilter, and that is not a good thing.

*thread quotes his views from a WAPO article.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:06 AM on September 29, 2023 [24 favorites]

Does it have to be someone over 70 even if it's just a caretaker appointment? I'm sensitive to the fact that we're walking a tightrope between ageism and legit concerns about capacity, but for people between the ages of 70 and 75, there's statistically a 2-4% chance of dying each year. That's kinda low, but high enough that we might plausibly go through this shit all over again before the 2024 election. God help us if it's immediately before the election.

Can we pick somebody young, healthy, reasonable, and willing to get some early-career name recognition without expecting to keep the seat?
posted by Riki tiki at 11:08 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

.
posted by adekllny at 11:26 AM on September 29, 2023

I know this is going to sound wild but hang with me: Feinstein actually was not a clairvoyant who could see the future.

I don't think anyone can, of course, but if you want to talk about the future, then as one of a very very very small handful of Americans who are given reins to direct how things are run, she and her political colleagues directed what future possibilities are for millions of people.

Particularly she has helped shape what will be possible for young people growing up in a world endangered by extreme weather, and even more especially she has helped decide the future of millions of young women, by her support for extremist right-wing judicial appointments who have already acted to take away their healthcare rights. These seem like no small matters.

As much as some want to note correctly that she opened doors — perhaps more for herself and friends made along the way, debatably — one might also ask how many doors she shut closed for millions of people who will live with the consequences of decisions made during her tenure?

So when she gets yelled at by a 16-year-old climate change protester, she can't shrug it off, because she doesn't see an over-exuberant teenage kid. She sees ultra-leftist bombers and kill-crazy socialist cultists.

The footage I saw was of a few middle-schoolers asking her pretty politely to act to preserve their future possibilities. They were then spoken down to like they were stupid and worthless, because they weren't of voting age. If she really saw kill-crazy bombers in that room, perhaps she should have retired then and there.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:27 AM on September 29, 2023 [22 favorites]

I'm getting the 2015/2016 purity vibes here again...

Bowing out before I am told that I'm a MAGA Republican who hates bunnies, and how could I possibly say anything positive about the late Senator's legacy of eeeeeevil!!?!!!

The last time I engaged in these types of comments, we wound up with 3 Supreme Court justices appointed by an orange felon...
posted by Chuffy at 11:41 AM on September 29, 2023 [11 favorites]

I can't find an image of it on the Web right now, but The Boondocks comic strip got it right at the time by praising Lee as a lone voice of reason against warmongers rushing to judgment.

Nobody does it like Barbara Lee
posted by Lexica at 11:50 AM on September 29, 2023 [13 favorites]

The last time I engaged in these types of comments, we wound up with 3 Supreme Court justices appointed by an orange felon...

Dianne Feinstein hugging Lindsay Graham during the Amy Coney Barrett hearings probably had the effect of making Barrett seem more moderate than she really was. I can't necessarily prove a causal connection, but in the latest poll before Feinstein hugged Graham, 15% of Democratic voters favored confirming Amy Coney Barrett to SCOTUS at the time (Gallup poll cite). In the earliest poll after Feinstein hugged Graham, 32% of Democratic voters favored confirming Amy Coney Barrett to Scotus (Politico/Morning Consult poll cite). Similarly, the percentage of Dem voters who answered "Don't Know/No opinion" about Amy Coney Barrett's nomination actually increased from 3% in the pre-hug Gallup poll to 20% in the post-hug Politico/Morning Consult poll.

Democratic Senators and rank-and-file Democratic simply lost the will to fight against Amy Coney Barrett, and I view Feinstein as a major part of that. When you're a minority party in a last-ditch effort to block a right-wing extremist Supreme Court nominee, you need a wartime consigliere. You're not going to get that from a U.S. Senator who's pushing 90 years of age, regardless of whether that Senator's politics is closer to Dianne Feinstein or Bernie Sanders.
posted by jonp72 at 12:01 PM on September 29, 2023 [24 favorites]

The last time I engaged in these types of comments, we wound up with 3 Supreme Court justices appointed by an orange felon...

Bravo on the elaborate trolling there, and if it’s not trolling boy have you got some follow up reading to do on Feinsteins activities in the judiciary committee.
posted by Artw at 12:03 PM on September 29, 2023 [11 favorites]

Heywood Mogroot III : Senate could have a Carousel ceremony for the 70yos, yes

You can’t have it in the senate chamber, Peter Ustinov has his cats in there.
posted by dr_dank at 12:05 PM on September 29, 2023 [13 favorites]

Diane Feinstein was a part of the transformation that shifted Democrats into a position of dominance in California politics. The reason that Californians can now contemplate someone more progressive in the Senate is a direct result of her hard work in the Senate and in building the California Democratic party. I understand the frustrations with her on a number of issues, but when I look at the balance of her career I see someone who helped advance the goals of the party in many more ways than she hindered it.
posted by interogative mood at 12:11 PM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

"imposing them on others” meant “being a person in public.”

Wow. It's true that the 'phobes just recycle the same crap. Gays in the 70s, trans people now. I wonder what her feelings about trans people were.

I've never lived in California, but from what I've seen on TV she reminded me of my grandmother... who died in a home, dementia having destroyed her brain so completely she couldn't even speak anymore, or recognize me. No one deserves that sort of cruelty at the end of their life.
posted by mephron at 12:11 PM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

I wonder what her feelings about trans people were.

I'm sure there are people who have much deeper knowledge than I do, but she did send this letter to the director of the Federal Bureau of Prisons in 2021:

Dear Director Carvajal:

We write to urge you to reverse the Federal Bureau of Prisons’ (BOP) harmful policy toward transgender people made by the previous administration. In 2018, BOP made substantive revisions to the Transgender Offender Manual (the Manual) that placed incarcerated transgender people at serious risk of sexual victimization by making it more difficult, if not impossible, to house incarcerated transgender people in facilities in accordance with their gender identity.

The most egregious change made to the revision was to import the novel and undefined term “biological sex” into the policy as the initial consideration when making housing and programming assignments. But the term “biological sex” is an imprecise term that is often used to redefine “sex” to exclude transgender people from legal protections and considerations. The term is not defined in the Manual or defined or supported by federal law. In fact, the modifier “biological” is inconsistent with existing federal law. For example, the standards established under the Prison Rape Elimination Act requires prison officials to make a genuine, individual, case-by-case assessment of whether a transgender person is most safely and appropriately housed with members of their own, self-identified gender. The law also forbids the dangerous practice of automatically segregating transgender people. Yet the revisions to the Manual made designating individuals to a facility based on their gender identity “appropriate only in rare cases.”

In response to the revisions, a group of senators wrote to the BOP in 2018 to express concerns in light of the alarming rates of sexual victimization incarcerated transgender people experience. According to data collected by the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ), a staggering 40% of incarcerated transgender people experience sexual abuse each year. The letter requested evidence demonstrating the justification for the changes, clarification regarding why these changes do not undermine the BOP’s goal of ending sexual victimization, and an explanation of why the changes do not conflict with the BOP’s obligations under federal law and the U.S. Constitution.

The BOP responded by dismissively asserting—despite the DOJ data—that they have no statistical data regarding the risk of harm to incarcerated transgender people. The BOP then speculated that housing transgender people with non-transgender people could “disrupt the orderly operation of the facility” and that housing transgender prisoners in accordance with their gender identity could “create a risk of harm” when non-transgender prisoners oppose their placement. The BOP’s disregard for the serious risks of sexual victimization incarcerated transgender people experience and BOP’s prioritization of the discomfort of non-transgender people are revealing and disquieting.

Unfortunately, the 2018 changes to the Manual remain in place. Therefore, we strongly urge the BOP to reverse the previous administration’s policy and to consult with incarcerated transgender people and the legal, policy, and advocacy organizations who represent their interests before issuing a final revision of the Manual, to develop a policy that is consistent with existing law and responsive to the needs of incarcerated transgender people. Such consultation will prove helpful in reducing the rate of sexual victimization in federal prisons and will help ensure that transgender people are housed appropriately and based on their individual needs.

We applaud the Biden Administration’s commitment to ensuring that LGBTQ people experience equal treatment under the law, and we thank you for your prompt attention to this important matter. We look forward to your written response.

Sincerely,
Source: Senator Dianne Feinstein
posted by oneirodynia at 12:22 PM on September 29, 2023 [13 favorites]

Bravo on the elaborate trolling there, and if it’s not trolling boy have you got some follow up reading to do on Feinsteins activities in the judiciary committee.

I specifically mentioned Kavanaugh in my comment about Feinstein as the counterpoint to her work re: the CIA and torture. But feel free to explain to me again how HRC's Supreme Court nominations would've been much worse, I love having this conversation indefinitely.
posted by Chuffy at 12:26 PM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

I don't think anyone can, of course, but if you want to talk about the future, then as one of a very very very small handful of Americans who are given reins to direct how things are run, she and her political colleagues directed what future possibilities are for millions of people

I was very specifically talking about the sneers that she was friends with Dan White in the time before he murdered her colleagues, as if somehow that means anything whatsoever about her, or she somehow should magically have known he was going to do that and excluded him from the start. I have virtually nothing good to say about Feinstein, but let's be real "now she can be with her buddy Dan White" is not something someone brings up as a neutral fact descriptor.

As for Dan White, where in the ever living cinnamon toast fuck does it say that Feinstein directed Dan White to assassinate George Moscone and Harvey Milk? Feinstein may have metaphorically and opportunistically stepped over the bodies of Moscone and Milk to become mayor,

She "opportunistically stepped over their bodies"? It's how the line of succession works! What was she supposed to do, resign? That would just mean someone else "stepped over the bodies". This is where it starts to sound like LGM is hinting at something. It's like saying Lyndon Johnson stepped over Kennedy's dead body to become president. I mean, people say it, and when they do they're implying a conspiracy theory.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:30 PM on September 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

When you're a minority party in a last-ditch effort to block a right-wing extremist Supreme Court nominee, you need a wartime consigliere.

Yup, imagine not being in the minority party in the first place. We couldn't have that. I voted against Feinstein 3 times in the primary, for the record, not that it matters.
posted by Chuffy at 12:31 PM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

Can we pick somebody young, healthy, reasonable, and willing to get some early-career name recognition without expecting to keep the seat?

I would not trust anyone young and healthy with a new appointment to not change their mind. Caretaker appointments don't go to ambitious people for a reason.
posted by Hollywood Upstairs Medical College at 12:40 PM on September 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

Having fun seeing what is a derail and/or contrary to the spirit of the thread and what is just peachy and left to stand , and I *would* potentially be a bit annoyed… but really, a canned left baiting Hillary-could-have-won rant seems like as fitting a tribute to Feinsteins legacy as she could get.
posted by Artw at 12:49 PM on September 29, 2023 [12 favorites]

I'm getting the 2015/2016 purity vibes here again...

I can understand where you're coming from, but I don't think you have to be a leftist purity pony to understand that, in the waning years of her last Senate term, Dianne Feinstein left the Democratic Party worse off. The blog Lawyers, Guns, & Money used baseball statistics to refer to Dianne Feinstein as the U.S. Democratic Senator with the lowest Wins Above Replacement in the Senate. Wins Above Replacement is a quantitative measurement of the contribution you make to "your team" (in Feinstein's case, the Democrats) versus a random person replacing you. If a Wins Above Replacement statistic existed for Democratic Senators, Dianne Feinstein's value, at least in her post-dementia years, would be very low. (The sole recent exception I might make is her fight against CIA torture policy as a leader on the Senate Intelligence Committee, but that was back when Obama was still president.)

In simple pragmatic "moneyball" terms, the California Democratic Party and the U.S. Democratic Party as a whole would have been better off if Dianne Feinstein had been replaced by Random Generic California Democrat. I sincerely believe that, for her last Senate term, you could have replaced Dianne Feinstein with a robot that voted the median Democratic position on every issue & the country would have been better off. At least a generic Democrat robot wouldn't have demoralized the Democratic resistance to Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett as much as Dianne Feinstein would have. And a robot wouldn't have gushed about Senator Susan Collins (R-ME) when control of the Senate was on the line during a presidential election year.

Just compare Dianne Feinstein to Senator Jon Tester of Montana. I am easily to the left of Jon Tester politically, but I stan Jon Tester, because even though he doesn't check off all my boxes, I know that he's likely the most liberal Senator that the red state of Montana is going to get. (Trust me on this one. My wife has family in Montana, including a late uncle who was occasionally urged to run by the state Democratic Party.) Tester could have been the 2nd coming of Joe Manchin, but instead, he's a solid team player for the Democrats. I've even shook his hand, and he's kind of like Walter Sobchak, if Walter Sobchak was a chill, normie Democratic Senator with some fingers missing.

Dianne Feinstein, on the other hand, was a Senator in one of the most economically and socially liberal states in the U.S. Once upon a time, she may have been in the center of the California electorate, but in the year of our Lord 2023, she was definitely to the right of the median California voter, not just the median California Democrat. If you're going by the standard of who's a Democratic "team player" and who is not, a relatively moderate/conservative Democrat like Jon Tester gets super-high marks, while Feinstein most certainly does not, even if in terms of lifetime voting record she's probably to the left of Tester.
posted by jonp72 at 1:21 PM on September 29, 2023 [23 favorites]

One comment deleted. Please refrain from making light jokes in a serious discussion, moreover when it comes to someone's death.
posted by loup (staff) at 1:27 PM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

My condolences to that poor amendment.
posted by East14thTaco at 1:40 PM on September 29, 2023

The idea that somehow a senator from one of the most liberal states in the nation being criticized for being well to the right of most of her party and staying on well past her prime is purity politics is fucking hilarious.

Having lived in California most of my life, about a fifth of it in San Francisco, I think a lot of people overestimate how liberal the city actually is. People seem to think that, because there were hippies in the Haight in 1967, that San Francisco is a bastion of leftists...and subsequently because of The Castro in the late 70's and onward, that it's also the center of the gay universe. Sure, we're liberal out here in California, but not everywhere. The Bay Area is full of tech-bros and old money...plenty of Libertarians and center-right folks to go around (and some of them are gay! gasp!). There's a strong history of descendants of Chinese heritage, Filipino heritage, Russian, Central Americans, and there's also a fuckton of white privilege. Just don't mention that to someone who considers themselves to be right all the time, they'll accuse you of picking sides against the one true way.

Go to the beach in Orange County, and you're just as likely to meet a T***p supporter as you are in Oklahoma. Drive up i5 in the Central Valley and see how much they loved Diane Feinstein on the misspelled signs about water conservation.

I have this context whenever I discuss politics. It gets me in trouble with the have-to-be-proved-fucking-right-and-nobody-who-even-mentions-someone-I-don't-like-in-a-positive-light-can-evade-my-righteous-takedown crowd.

And before my brief, some of them kind, words about Feinstein generate more anger, I have referred to her as DINO Feinstein for 20+ years, and have voted against her for the majority of her career. She just died. Be kind.
posted by Chuffy at 1:57 PM on September 29, 2023 [4 favorites]

Well it's convenient she represented the whole of California, not just SF.
posted by Ferreous at 2:02 PM on September 29, 2023

And in response to the bit you edited in: I don't follow the logic of "they just died be kind" a public figures death is a time to reflect on their life. I'm not going to gloss over the many many many ways she hurt this country.
posted by Ferreous at 2:10 PM on September 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

I ran out of time on the edit, and didn't have time to delete it. I wanted to convey some sense of "don't speak ill of the dead" and blew it. Hit publish instead of cancel.
posted by Chuffy at 2:15 PM on September 29, 2023

I will freely admit, and don't think there is anything wrong in, holding a "but what have you done for me lately" viewpoint on all politicians.

I don't care so much what Fienstein did 20 years ago. Or 40 years ago.

I DO care a lot about the way she endorsed, encouraged, and empowered the Republicans while they were stealing Supreme Court seats and filling Supreme Court seats with alcoholic rapists and foaming at the mouth Catholic fanatics.

To me hugging Lindsay Graham and telling him how wonderful his management of Amy fucking Barrett's appointment wipes out any goodwill she may have ever earned before.

And let's not lie about her vile, ego fueled, attack on children who dared to be criticial of her decision to vote to let them die so oil companies can make bigger profits. She was snippy, cruel, egomaniacal, and callously dismissive towards the legitimate and entirely correct concerns of a group of children. It was shocking and wrong, and trying to spin it otherwise is neither moral nor factually correct.
posted by sotonohito at 2:25 PM on September 29, 2023 [29 favorites]

> Is there another word that you would propose?

swap “controversial among the lgbqt community” to “harmful to queer people” and we’re good.

controversy. controversy. like the problem was she inspired dispute. come on. she was worse than her time and place by a long way. smearing vaseline over the lens in an attempt to honor her memory is itself an act of disrespect. if you want to write a encomium to feinstein feel free, but don’t write an encomium to a person you would have preferred her to be and then pretend that that’s who she was. that’s not an encomium. hell, it’s not even hagiography.

like, sheesh.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 3:02 PM on September 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

and like come on. there is one small but particularly important reason that a politician from san francisco in the 1980s had a deep moral obligation to support gay people. it’s a very small reason. small enough to slip into a t cell. other politicians got it right. she got it wrong.

eulogize all you like. but write an honest eulogy. and give that word “controversy” a rest.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 3:07 PM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

I have yet to hear a good argument for allowing someone to serve into their 80s.

My argument is that we have a little ceremony every 2/4/6 years, and during that ceremony the people (let’s call them constituents) who might have an opinion either way on this issue can elect (zing) to make that opinion known.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 3:19 PM on September 29, 2023 [4 favorites]

Except the party throwing all is weight behind incumbents makes it surprisingly hard to unseat safe seats
posted by Ferreous at 3:21 PM on September 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

non-California Democrat here. I love Porter and she'd be my pick, but thought Schiff was pretty strong running the impeachment case against Trump. Is there a reason he'd be a bad choice for senator, aside from being yet another Rich White Guy in the Senate?
posted by martin q blank at 3:30 PM on September 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

I mean isn’t that enough at this point?
posted by corb at 3:30 PM on September 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

sure. just wondered if there was some corruption, harassment, puppy-kicking, etc that wasn't widely known outside California circles.
posted by martin q blank at 3:36 PM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

Also, comments on the post just reenforce how disconnected from the real world this website is. Everyone here is going to be real shocked when Schiff just moonwalks his way into being our next Senator.

According to this polling aggregation website, Katie Porter has a slight edge over Schiff, but it's still probably within the margin of error. Even if Schiff wins, I think it's more like to be neck-and-neck than a moonwalk.

Anybody know the name recognition of Porter vs. Schiff vs. Lee? I certainly think Porter could benefit from the "Oh, she's the whiteboard lady?" factor.
posted by jonp72 at 3:38 PM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

Is there a reason he'd be a bad choice for senator, aside from being yet another Rich White Guy in the Senate?

I've been impressed with both Schiff and Porter. If the choice were Lee or a Republican, I'd vote for Lee, but unless the alternative is utterly unpalatable (i.e. Republican or of similar persuasion as in CA there are plenty of crypto-Republicans running around), I don't intend to vote for anyone over 70 for any election in the foreseeable future.
posted by tclark at 3:40 PM on September 29, 2023 [4 favorites]

I think I almost gave her Covid earlier this year. We were on the same flight, I was returning from GDC, and would test positive a couple of days later. I only noticed her because her entourage introduced her to the whole cabin crew on landing (stopping the rest of us from disembarking), before hustling her out the emergency exit off the ramp down to the runway and a waiting car. Fortunately I was masked the whole time, although at one point I was singing Queen songs through it.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 3:43 PM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

Diane Feinstein did a lot for HIV research and to help victims of AIDS during her time as mayor of San Franscisco in the 1980s. The city had a larger budget for HIV programs than the entire Us Government was spending at the time. This claim that she wasn’t a strong advocate for LGBT+ issues is nonsense. She made a mistake early in her career in vetoing domestic partner legislation but came around quickly. In the Senate she voted against the Defense of Marriage bill in the early 1990s.
posted by interogative mood at 3:53 PM on September 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

One of the things about blazing a trail when you're young is that you sometimes end up getting left behind when you're old.

"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones."

. for the good that she did. May the caretaker senator do well for California and the country and the next elected Senator do better. (And man, as I watch Ken Paxton float a primary challenge to John Cornyn, does this Texan envy y'all your choices in your upcoming primary.)
posted by gentlyepigrams at 3:55 PM on September 29, 2023 [4 favorites]

No jokes? Let me know if this will be the rule when former Pres.T***p dies.
posted by Ideefixe at 4:24 PM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 4:39 PM on September 29, 2023

Just to cross the streams with the ageism thread a little further: I was reading something about who would replace Feinstein as a caretaker and the writer suggested Jerry Brown, who is currently 85 (and noticeably not a Black woman, either). It's not my state and I have liked some of the things Brown has done, but my gut response was OMG please no.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 4:59 PM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

No jokes? Let me know if this will be the rule when former Pres.T***p dies.

loup said “In a serious discussion.” When Trump/Cheney/Kissinger/Kid Rock go it’s going to be Mardi Gras around these parts.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 5:05 PM on September 29, 2023 [11 favorites]

as it fucking should be with that lot — i don't even care if they are death hoaxes, bring outchyer dead
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:11 PM on September 29, 2023 [6 favorites]

.
posted by riverlife at 10:19 PM on September 29, 2023

I can't find an image of it on the Web right now, but The Boondocks comic strip got it right at the time by praising Lee as a lone voice of reason against warmongers rushing to judgment.
posted by cgc373 at 1:00 AM on September 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

One deleted; attacking other members.
posted by taz (staff) at 2:31 AM on September 30, 2023

On whether Feinstein’s centrism was appropriate for her state’s politics - California’s 2020 presidential vote was 63-34, the 5th most pro-Biden state by vote share, comparable to MA (#2, 66-32), MD (#3, 65-32), NY (#6, 61-38), or CT (#8, 59-39), to take similar ranked not-small states. These aren’t uniformly liberal places, but my impression is she may have been the most conservative of all their senators.
posted by brendano at 2:53 AM on September 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

I should say, historically I’m sure this looks different. 10-15 years ago Joe Lieberman was in the Senate from CT, MA elected a Republican for a few years, etc.
posted by brendano at 3:05 AM on September 30, 2023

Someone explain to me how she accumulated $200 million plus in wealth without being totally corrupt?

(said while looking directly at Pelosi too)
posted by nofundy at 4:55 AM on September 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

Ok. You marry a successful neurosurgeon who dies of cancer in 1978 leaving you a few million from life insurance and his investments. Then you re-marry to an already rich investment banker based in Silicon Valley in 1980. Your combined wealth soars to a few billion based on stocks and investments all before you ever get to the Senate. Then he dies and most of the money goes to various charities, leaving you only $200 million for your remaining years on this earth and as an inheritance for your children and grandchildren. That’s how you die with $200 million without having to take bribes or be particularly corrupt. Pelosi also married a wealthy investor.
posted by interogative mood at 8:07 AM on September 30, 2023 [19 favorites]

I don't think this has been posted here, but sorry if it has been: Once common, Senate deaths in office are now rare (WaPo).
posted by gentlyepigrams at 8:31 AM on September 30, 2023

I can't find an image of it on the Web right now, but The Boondocks comic strip got it right at the time by praising Lee as a lone voice of reason against warmongers rushing to judgment.

I am proud that Barbara Lee has been my rep here in Oakland since 1998.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:15 AM on September 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Can Newsome appoint Kevin McCarthy?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 9:55 PM on September 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

Have to say the dude is on a streak of doing a bunch of performative awful shit so I wouldn’t consider him entirely trustworthy these days.
posted by Artw at 10:02 PM on September 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

Ok. You marry a successful neurosurgeon who dies of cancer in 1978 leaving you a few million from life insurance and his investments. Then you re-marry to an already rich investment banker based in Silicon Valley in 1980. Your combined wealth soars to a few billion based on stocks and investments all before you ever get to the Senate. Then he dies and most of the money goes to various charities, leaving you only $200 million for your remaining years on this earth and as an inheritance for your children and grandchildren. That’s how you die with $200 million without having to take bribes or be particularly corrupt. Pelosi also married a wealthy investor.

This is also how you also preside in the Senate over an era of unprecedented growth for existing wealth while simultaneously allowing wages to stagnate and decline. Who needs bribes when you have the pure self-interest of piles of your own money?
posted by srboisvert at 5:24 AM on October 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

From zero women to 24 in 31 years? It's better than staying at zero but it's also pretty telling about the state of gender inequities in politics.

Also, politics = grift.
posted by bluesky43 at 9:22 AM on October 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

Also, politics = grift.

Most people working in elected office at the level of Senator are True Believers, who entered politics to effect change. There are certainly some authentically corrupt politicians, like Bob Menendez, but they're rare at the level of US national politics. Senators tend to be rich for a bunch of reasons, but it's not usually straightforward grift.
posted by mr_roboto at 5:36 PM on October 1, 2023 [2 favorites]

Senators tend to be rich for a bunch of reasons, but it's not usually straightforward grift.

Why grift when you can legally insider trade?!
posted by srboisvert at 6:28 PM on October 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

Gavin appointed Laphonza Butler, former SEIU long term care workers union prez, eventual Kamala strategist and airbnb shill, and current Emily's List president.
posted by kensington314 at 8:32 PM on October 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

A HBCU graduate with a sterling resume working for democratic issues like unions, abortion rights and the minimum wage. Of course we must immediately tear her down because she spent a few months after the 2020 election working for AirBNB while looking for a better job (Director of Emily’s list). Are you going to blame someone, with a child for taking a job when you know our social safety net is so badly broken and especially punitive to unemployed black women? Is that where we are now. Is she forever “unclean” for daring to take a PR/lobbying job for a few months; or does she just have to camp in the red tent until the allotted time passes.
posted by interogative mood at 9:14 PM on October 1, 2023 [7 favorites]

For me it has zero to do with purity and everything to do with the person's actual political priorities.

It's not enough to have been an SEIU officer in the past and although representation does matter, it's also not sufficient to ensure the person votes in a way most beneficial to those who share an identity with them.

AirBnB deliberately hires folks with the trappings of progressivism to provide an appearance of progress while in reality trashing the economy (reducing union jobs in the hotel industry, likely local increasing rent costs, etc. )
posted by latkes at 9:19 PM on October 1, 2023 [5 favorites]

Sorry, I regret that I typed that in my phone and not a laptop, because I definitely used a shortened form of writing which does sound curt and maybe a little withering.

I don't actually have strong negative feelings toward her; I think on balance anyone would have to say she's done good things more than bad things. I was just trying to objectively summarize her career briefly, which I think I did do, but again in a tone that I understand is ripe for miscommunication.

I worked in organized labor for some years and it's true that a lot of us felt confused about the airbnb move, and that it felt cynical. That company's intentions are all bad, and are specifically about eroding the power of organized labor, among other things.

But as you point out, interogative mood, it's a footnote in a longer career. She's not a person who shares my exact politics (she worked for Kamala, who is not my favorite Democrat, for example), but she doesn't have to (no one has to) and she's a massive improvement over Dianne Feinstein. As a Californian, I'm hopeful that she'll do good things in the seat for as long as she is in it.

(Also being that she formerly headed up SEIU United Long Term Health Care Workers, I'm holding out some hope that she can move forward some positive policy around in-home health care. God knows we need it, and that a lot of these goals stalled out way back in the Jerry Brown Mark II days.)
posted by kensington314 at 9:51 PM on October 1, 2023 [2 favorites]

I guess Maxine Waters didn't want the job after all.

Which honestly makes sense.
posted by kyrademon at 5:11 AM on October 2, 2023

As far as I can see from Twitter, both the Fox News right and the pro-Lee left have pounced on various sites listing Senator-designate Butler's current state of residence as Maryland to yell that she's somehow not a "real" Californian.

Which is... kind of bullshit, right? Barbara Lee is also a Californian living in DC for work. As far as I can see, Butler moved to Silver Spring when she took the job at Emily's List in 2021. I suppose she could have remained a resident of CA on paper, but I'm guessing she calculated that her vote would be more useful in still-a-bit-swingy MD than solid-blue CA.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:36 AM on October 2, 2023

I do not like to see that a former union organizer and then SEIU president was hired by Uber to advise it on its union busting efforts in California. But she's not exceptional among powerful democrats I guess.
posted by dis_integration at 6:41 AM on October 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

I suppose she could have remained a resident of CA on paper

I...don't think she could have? She didn't live in California and didn't fall under an exception like serving in office or the military. It would have been fraudulent for her to maintain CA residency. That said, it's patently ridiculous for people to act like she's not adequately connected to California - clearly her history and loyalties lie there, especially if she still owns a California home.
posted by mosst at 8:57 AM on October 2, 2023

> "still-a-bit-swingy MD"

MD is not swingy.
posted by kyrademon at 9:42 AM on October 2, 2023

(For example, in 2020, Biden ended up with a 32% lead in MD, compared to a 30% lead in CA.)
posted by kyrademon at 9:47 AM on October 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

> "still-a-bit-swingy MD"

MD is not swingy.

Givernor Hogan was a good reminder of the difference between “leaning” and “sure thing” – he only left due to term-limits and anyone who cares about equity, police lawlessness, or the environment might have felt that their vote for governor was important for avoiding another Republican.
posted by adamsc at 10:20 AM on October 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

California had a Republican governor not all that long ago, too. Same with Massachusetts. The governor of Vermont is currently a Republican. If that's all it takes to make a state "swingy" then Hawaii is probably the only left-leaning state that *isn't* "swingy".
posted by kyrademon at 11:51 AM on October 2, 2023

I suspect she won't run for election and will act as a caretaker. There are three Democratic superstars in the race already Porter, Lee, and Schiff it is really hard for an untested, relative unknown who hasn't been living in California recently to win in those circumstances. If she ran and lost, then she's going to be seen as a spoiler by the 2/3 of the people running who don't win the seat. If she doesn't run then they'll all be happy to talk about what a great job she did when she runs for another office, seeks an appointment with the Governor or President Biden in his second term, or she gets a pundit gig on TV.
posted by interogative mood at 11:52 AM on October 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

I suspect she won't run for election and will act as a caretaker.

Her elder care background should come in handy in this capacity in the Senate.
posted by pwnguin at 3:26 PM on October 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

I think she looks like a good interim pick in terms of resume. Pretty institutional (Fed Reserve experience, consulting, strategist for a centrist Democrat, etc.) but the point of a caretaker sort of precludes a bomb thrower. They are basically supposed to caucus with the party and vote the party line; it's tough enough getting anything done in the Senate ever, impossible if your term is sunsetting in a year and the Democrats don't even have a majority. All that said union experience is a plus.

This assumes she will not run. Newsom certainly picked someone who seems like they'd have trouble running on paper--zero name recognition, no direct electoral experience, and the other candidates with a six month head start.

If she parlays this into a future in electoral politics in some future race, good for her. She's only 44.
posted by mark k at 7:25 PM on October 2, 2023

She has until December 4th to figure out if she could run. She probably won’t but could potentially pull a campaign together with the wealthier Emily’s List donors, her SIEU/minimum wage activist, the HBCU connections. That’s 3 really important sources of energy for Democratic political campaigns.
posted by interogative mood at 8:11 PM on October 2, 2023

Feinstein taught my mother horseback riding at a camp for girls near Lake Tahoe. My mother, who grew up in San Francisco society, was always proud of that.
posted by carmicha at 9:40 PM on October 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'm just happy Senator Butler has been sworn in already. I was dreading having an empty seat for weeks or months.

Also, Vice-President Harris swore her in. That's very moving.
posted by kristi at 2:35 PM on October 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

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