A Little Moxie For Halloween

October 30, 2023 1:11 AM

Penn Jillette's kid Moxie did some magic and tried to fool their dad on "Penn & Teller:Fool Us" (SLYT)

Spoiler (also avoid looking at the video title on YouTube):

THEY FOOLED THEM!

posted by zaixfeep (47 comments total)

Every time I see Teller, I cannot not see this guy.
posted by zaixfeep at 1:21 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Penn lost 100 pounds eating just potatoes. I read his book about it. He’s very smart, obviously, and seems like a decent guy. I’m not into magic but did enjoy this. I wish my dad were like him.
posted by waving at 1:45 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Note: Moxie Crimefighter Jillette, while billed as Penn's daughter on their last appearance on Fooled Us, is introduced as 'Penn's own' on this one, and this P&T interview before Moxie's Edinburgh Fringe festival act uses they/them to refer to them, and avoids the use of 'daughter' entirely.
posted by persona at 2:25 AM on October 30, 2023 [36 favorites]

That is beautiful.
posted by chavenet at 2:46 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

Penn & Teller lead Las Vegas Strip vaccination event (birdshit)

He's not antivax anymore.
posted by adept256 at 4:51 AM on October 30, 2023 [12 favorites]

Penn fell down the smug libertarian rabbit hole for a few decades, but to his credit, when his kid came out as non-binary, he got woke really quickly about gender and a few other things. I respect that.

(Also, his kid's full legal name, which he gave them at birth, is Moxie CrimeFighter Jillette, and that's amazing.)
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:32 AM on October 30, 2023 [30 favorites]

I was not aware that P&T were ever anti-vax. Here's Exhibit 1 from their SHO debunker series, season 8 in 2010. Penn always described himself as an open-minded skeptic and a 'little-l' libertarian, as in "let's not run to the government first to solve a problem." I cannot imagine he was ever a Thiel-ite, but I could be wrong.
posted by zaixfeep at 6:35 AM on October 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

Yeah, Faint, as in 'CrimeFighter is my middle name'. Pretty dangerous, I think you'll agree*.
_{* - from The Dangerous Brothers}
posted by zaixfeep at 6:42 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Penn always described himself as an open-minded skeptic and a 'little-l' libertarian

I do understand the confusion, though, given this is exactly how, say, Joe Rogan would describe himself.
posted by gelfin at 7:19 AM on October 30, 2023 [10 favorites]

"But Daaaad! I don't *wanna* use my powers for good!"
posted by whuppy at 7:38 AM on October 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

I was kinda hoping Moxie was like, 5 years old...but this is still very charming and yeah, that's a heckin cool name.
posted by supermedusa at 7:54 AM on October 30, 2023

Unless the Wikipedia entry about him is incorrect, he has heavily identified himself multiple times as libertarian in the past, including being part of Ron Paul's Young Americans for Liberty. Since 2020 he has publicly cooled to libertarianism.
posted by jcworth at 8:01 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

So how did y'all like the card trick?
posted by Nelson at 8:07 AM on October 30, 2023 [26 favorites]

Bummed that I missed Moxie's Edinburgh show!
posted by kyrademon at 8:09 AM on October 30, 2023

That was a really good trick! [SPOILER ALERT!] I'm intrigued by the fact that Penn & Teller could figure out the first variation but were fooled by the last one. It seems like it should be the same method, whatever it is.
posted by yankeefog at 8:13 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Every time I see Teller, I cannot not see this guy.

Weirdly, I just noticed today the resemblance between Teller and Canadian conservative pundit Rex Murphy. Of course, there is one notable aspect of Teller’s persona that I dearly wish Murphy would emulate.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:16 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Note: Moxie Crimefighter Jillette, while billed as Penn's daughter on their last appearance on Fooled Us yt , is introduced as 'Penn's own' on this one, and this P&T interview before Moxie's Edinburgh Fringe festival act uses they/them to refer to them, and avoids the use of 'daughter' entirely.

That said, we seem to have a dubious pronoun in the FPP. Should that not be adjusted to “their?”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:20 AM on October 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

I did like the trick. this youtube video, despite the annoying format, does explain how the trick may have been done.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 8:24 AM on October 30, 2023

Yeah, I'm kinda surprised P&T said that they were fooled, given that I've seen a very similar finale in an earlier Fool Us from a few years ago. So that would mean P&T got fooled by a trick and then didn't go on to figure out how it was done? Perhaps the proud papa and godpapa were feeling generous.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:33 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

_{There was a time pre-Web/pre-Wikipedia that folks like Ron Paul could superficially sell their philosophy on credulous provincial derps (like me in the 80's, hoo-boy). But what cured me of that nuttery by the end of the 80's was the, ahem, 'moral flexibility' of many libertarians I encountered (hence their desire for 'liberty' aka non-accountability), and ultimately the preposterous Paul position that individual states could adopt an official religion, it was just the Feds that couldn't. Yeah, that stuff was buried deep in small print in his literatureend derail}
posted by zaixfeep at 8:34 AM on October 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

That said, we seem to have a dubious pronoun in the FPP. Should that not be adjusted to “their?”
_{posted by ricochet biscuit}
Mods, you have my (in no way royal) assent to do so if you feel you need it ;-)
posted by zaixfeep at 8:42 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

Such a fun watch, thank you for sharing it!

I really enjoyed watching Penn age 5 years in 2 minutes when he realized Moxie pulled off their ruse of being in Edinburgh.

I've been a casual fan of Penn & Teller since they performed at my college in the early 90s. Like many celebrities I've admired for years, they're aging (Teller is 75!) and it's nice to know that the family business might be carried on by Moxie.
posted by kimberussell at 8:48 AM on October 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

That was adorable.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:49 AM on October 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

I'm intrigued by the fact that Penn & Teller could figure out the first variation but were fooled by the last one. It seems like it should be the same method, whatever it is.

Yeah, it definitely seemed that way to me, and the goobers on the FoolUs subreddit seem to mostly agree, so far. One of them even suggests it's basically an off-the-shelf trick. If they genuinely couldn't figure it out -- and they're not just working us -- it'd be pretty surprising.

In any case I still liked this! Moxie's nerves seemed genuine, the performance wasn't polished, and it was a really sweet scene!
posted by uncleozzy at 9:05 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

If they genuinely couldn't figure it out -- and they're not just working us -- it'd be pretty surprising.

I think Penn was too flummoxed and Teller knew but kept quiet.
posted by kimberussell at 9:12 AM on October 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

There's also the possiblity that Moxie managed to do an old trick with a new method, which has happened on the show a few times before.
posted by foxtongue at 9:27 AM on October 30, 2023 [14 favorites]

That was delightful
posted by Faintdreams at 9:50 AM on October 30, 2023

That was fun, good for Moxie. But where did Alyson Hannigan go? It was startling to see someone else hosting. Apparently she left the show “abruptly”… really hoping the circumstances of that are good for her.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:16 AM on October 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

Its a good trick but y'know Penn has a reputation... to be fair I hadn't known he had changed as I essentially wrote him off years ago. I'll have to reacquaint myself with his recent work.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:37 AM on October 30, 2023

The trick was great, I have no idea how it could be done, but I was kinda confused at why Moxie wore a shirt that said 37 when they said at the beginning "Don't choose 37"
posted by weewooweewoo at 11:16 AM on October 30, 2023

One bit of show that I enjoyed was how Moxie opens their coat like the '37' t-shirt is itself the reveal of magic trick. But Moxie named that number at the beginning, so there's no actual trick there, but some nice misdirection to make your mind look in the wrong place for what's going on.
posted by straight at 11:20 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

On lack-of-preview, yeah, weewooweewoo, I think that confusion is intentional. You're busy noticing that that's not even a trick, which doesn't help you see the actual trick.
posted by straight at 11:21 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

Like Fox said, I think there's a genre of magicians doing tricks specifically for magicians. It sort of becomes a you know that I know you know that I know that you know this, and it's pretty obvious. So I'm going to do something that looks like the usual, but no, you're looking out for that so I worked out a way to trick your magicians expectations. Did that happen? Probably! Did it also seem like they might have been grading a little bit on a curve especially since Moxie pulled off the out of country deception? Yes. But I don't know enough about the trick to fully judge.
posted by Jacen at 1:19 PM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

I was kinda confused at why Moxie wore a shirt that said 37 when they said at the beginning "Don't choose 37"

She explains mid-trick that 37 is "her" number.

There's two tricks here. The first is a basic match-your-chosen-card trick and there's a bunch of ways to do it; Moxie writing the numbers on the back of the card ups the difficulty level beyond basic street magic, but to make it onto FOOLED US you need more than basic street magic anyway, and Penn and Teller know the particular advanced trick she's using to do it. The second is also a basic match-your-chosen-card trick with the advanced writing difficulty, except that Moxie doesn't do it in the way Penn and Teller would expect her to do it (IE, not the same way as the first trick, which they caught immediately).

I agree with the consensus that Penn was fooled primarily because he was so overjoyed that his kid had done this that he wasn't as on the ball as he normally is, and Teller (the better magician of the two) wasn't fooled but he's basically Moxie's uncle and wants them to succeed, and Teller can get away with faking a fool much more easily than Penn can.
posted by mightygodking at 1:38 PM on October 30, 2023 [15 favorites]

My understanding/estimation (from a deep dive into youtube comments) is that they were genuinely fooled, within the rules of the game, due to the obvious method of the first trick being a misdirection from a non-standard method for the second trick, as well as both tricks having been somehow combined so that they could be performed with the same deck, which is non-trivial.

Apparently, the bit that always gets edited out of the television version of the show, is that Penn asks the producers (who know how the trick works) if it was done with Method X, and they get a response "yes" or "nope". They don't get a follow-up "well in that case it must have been Method Y" -- if their first guess is wrong, they were fooled. It seems like that's what happened here.
posted by rifflesby at 8:07 PM on October 30, 2023 [15 favorites]

That was delightful!
posted by SLC Mom at 9:45 PM on October 30, 2023

I was kinda hoping Moxie was like, 5 years old...

As someone who was listening to Penn’s podcast around the time Moxie was born, me too, friend. Me too.
posted by gelfin at 3:21 AM on October 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

Well that was sweet. The setup of Moxie surprising dad seemed genuine and meaningful. A proper tearjerker, in a good way. Moxie's performance seemed a little thin to me compared to a typical Fool Us act, usually there's more story and slick patter and some smaller tricks thrown in. They just did the basic 3 card trick. But then there was the unique thing of Penn being their dad. And the tricks themselves were well executed and surprising. Moxie must have practiced months to do that so well.

I think Reddit is the best place to read after a Fool Us episode for speculation on how the trick was done. Here's the discussion thread for this episode. (Usual Reddit warning, some folks are jerks but nothing too awful.) No clear answer there, everyone's guessing, but it's interesting to read the various kinds of prop cards that can be used to help do tricks like this.

I love Fool Us. The setup is a game show / variety act. But what it really is is Penn & Teller seeding the next generation of magicians. Their team carefully chooses and promotes 4 up-and-coming performers every episode, from all over the world, and does their best to make them look good for their 8 minutes of TV. The actual "did they fool P&T" part is the least interesting thing, although I do appreciate how Penn bends over backwards to say complimentary things even for tricks that are the most obvious mechanically.
posted by Nelson at 6:53 AM on October 31, 2023 [8 favorites]

Teller is 75!

Whaaaaaaaat?? TIL that Teller’s greatest magic trick has been looking like he’s early middle-aged for the past 40 years.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:52 AM on October 31, 2023 [13 favorites]

That was a great video, thanks for linking it.

I was also a bit surprised that Penn and Teller could figure out the first trick but not the second one, since it seemed to me that they're the same trick. After thinking on it I realized that probably the "standard" way of doing the first trick lets the magician match a card back of the audience's choosing to a card face of the magician's choosing, but not the other way around. So there had to be something new that let Moxie do the trick "backwards" with the same deck, and that's what they couldn't figure out.

Like Fox said, I think there's a genre of magicians doing tricks specifically for magicians. It sort of becomes a you know that I know you know that I know that you know this, and it's pretty obvious. So I'm going to do something that looks like the usual, but no, you're looking out for that so I worked out a way to trick your magicians expectations.

A fun example of this genre is Mathieu Bich's appearance on Fool Us.
posted by Tau Wedel at 8:54 AM on October 31, 2023 [6 favorites]

Whaaaaaaaat?? TIL that Teller’s greatest magic trick has been looking like he’s early middle-aged for the past 40 years.

I just learned today that Teller is the older of the two. When they first met, Penn was a high school student and Teller, at a different school, was a high school teacher. (Source, straight from Teller's mouth)
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:32 PM on October 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

this youtube video, despite the annoying format, does explain how the trick may have been done

Interesting theory, but the actual answer:

Magic.
posted by Flunkie at 5:48 PM on October 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

OMG I LIKE MOXIE SOOOOO MUCH. What a charmer. Goofy nerd charm for the win. I wonder if the gray streak is natural or no?

One could also argue that the "fooling" also involves not being in Edinburgh.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:13 PM on October 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

> "So there had to be something new that let Moxie do the trick 'backwards' with the same deck, and that's what they couldn't figure out."

Probably almost the opposite, as some others here have already indicated.

Doing it "backwards" using the standard method is a well-known trick... which means that the most likely explanation is that Moxie didn't use the standard method.

Basically, if this scenario is correct, and it seems probable to me that it is, then the entire first part of the trick was misdirection -- aimed not at the audience, but *solely* at Penn and Teller. Moxie did the first half of the trick using the well-established, ordinary method. An off-the-shelf method; at least one other magician who appeared on the show a few years ago used the same deck of cards, complete with identical "drawn on" numbers on the back, to perform a somewhat similar trick, and Penn and Teller twigged what he was doing immediately.

Then Moxie did the second, expected half of the off-the-shelf trick... using a completely different method. Moxie reverse-engineered the trick to come up with a different way to do it. So when Penn and Teller consulted with the expert who knew the details (a part of the show you don't see), they guessed the whole thing had used the standard method, and they were wrong.

And as has been pointed out, the rules say they don't get a second guess. I've seen a magician win because they thought he was holding something in his mouth when he actually palmed it. If it wasn't in his mouth, then palming it was the only other alternative -- it's quite clear when he does it once you know it wasn't in his mouth -- but they guessed wrong the first time, so that magician won.

Basically, if those of us who think this is the case are correct, Moxie was running two tricks at once -- one designed to fool an audience, and one designed exclusively to fool expert magicians, like their father, who thought they already knew how this trick works. It looks the same as the regular trick, but it isn't. Moxie gamed the game.

Now that's magic.
posted by kyrademon at 5:15 PM on November 1, 2023 [9 favorites]

Yes. Also, the thing that shows Moxie's skill as a magician is not, "Can I bring a trick my dad has never heard of before?" but "Can I perform a trick skillfully enough that my dad won't see how I did it?"

Although I shouldn't sell them short. Moxie might have also invented a new way to do this trick, which would also be quite impressive.
posted by straight at 12:16 PM on November 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

Moxie's on Reddit.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:56 PM on November 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

Looks like the video is private now.
posted by msbrauer at 9:44 AM on November 14, 2023