Late Wednesday Night Inspirational Speech Post
November 15, 2023 7:59 PM Subscribe
"no matter how hard you try to implement these discriminatory policies in the right way, you are never going to find a right way to do the wrong thing" Man gives truly inspiring speech at Virginia Beach school board meeting [DailyKos, includes transcript] "And Gov. Youngkin’s policies are wrong.
One of the ways you could tell is because you have speakers from groups like Moms for Liberty here to support them. And I'll be real simple in case you aren’t paying attention—they're not the good guys. How can you tell? I can help. The good guys don't get declared extremist groups by human rights organizations." Direct Link To Video Of Speech [2m10s]
wow, that's a beautifully written and powerful speech!
posted by DrumsIntheDeep at 8:11 PM on November 15, 2023
posted by DrumsIntheDeep at 8:11 PM on November 15, 2023
[This post via tonight's episode of Gay USA [1h], a weekly show I've been watching for decades.]
posted by hippybear at 8:13 PM on November 15, 2023
posted by hippybear at 8:13 PM on November 15, 2023
Still wasn't enough.
posted by tigrrrlily at 8:24 PM on November 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by tigrrrlily at 8:24 PM on November 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
He should be hired as a White House speechwriter.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:34 PM on November 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:34 PM on November 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
"Never in history have the good guys been the ones trying to ban books."
posted by Paul Slade at 11:22 PM on November 15, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 11:22 PM on November 15, 2023 [22 favorites]
I'm struck by the fact that he was allowed to speak with none of the usual barracking or hostile interruptions from the book burners. Was this due to a sparse turnout at the meeting or just effective chairmanship?
posted by Paul Slade at 12:04 AM on November 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 12:04 AM on November 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'm struck by the fact that he was allowed to speak with none of the usual barracking or hostile interruptions from the book burners.
That's likely because this looks like a public school-board meeting, at which anyone can get up and give a two-minute address. I guarantee that there were about 30 people who got up and spoke before this guy, and another 30 people at least who got up and spoke after. It's likely that the book burners weren't interrupting was because the knew they had several more slots coming up after this guy.
This likely wasn't the slam-dunk we'd like it to be. It was inspiring and well-spoken, yes, but I'm not as optimistic that the school board was steamrolled by the guy's logic as we would hope - it's more likely that half the people in the audience weren't listening because they were rehearsing their own remarks, or they had checked out when they saw the rainbow flag on his t-shirt.
And I'm saying this as someone who actually DID speak at a school board meeting in her hometown once. I would be very surprised if I changed the minds of anyone in the audience - although, I'm pretty sure I got the attention of the school board itself, and that MIGHT have helped. I notice this video doesn't capture the reactions of the school board to his words, and that's really what would be the best way to gauge the impact.
Again - I'm not saying his speech wasn't inspiring. But I've been frustrated by how much ink and airtime we give to a person's single speech or a person's single tweet being held up as "destroying their opponent's argument" without giving any evidence that their opponent WAS destroyed. They said something great and had a great comeback, but that's it. Let's not call it a victory until we actually HAVE seen the win, maybe.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:24 AM on November 16, 2023 [22 favorites]
That's likely because this looks like a public school-board meeting, at which anyone can get up and give a two-minute address. I guarantee that there were about 30 people who got up and spoke before this guy, and another 30 people at least who got up and spoke after. It's likely that the book burners weren't interrupting was because the knew they had several more slots coming up after this guy.
This likely wasn't the slam-dunk we'd like it to be. It was inspiring and well-spoken, yes, but I'm not as optimistic that the school board was steamrolled by the guy's logic as we would hope - it's more likely that half the people in the audience weren't listening because they were rehearsing their own remarks, or they had checked out when they saw the rainbow flag on his t-shirt.
And I'm saying this as someone who actually DID speak at a school board meeting in her hometown once. I would be very surprised if I changed the minds of anyone in the audience - although, I'm pretty sure I got the attention of the school board itself, and that MIGHT have helped. I notice this video doesn't capture the reactions of the school board to his words, and that's really what would be the best way to gauge the impact.
Again - I'm not saying his speech wasn't inspiring. But I've been frustrated by how much ink and airtime we give to a person's single speech or a person's single tweet being held up as "destroying their opponent's argument" without giving any evidence that their opponent WAS destroyed. They said something great and had a great comeback, but that's it. Let's not call it a victory until we actually HAVE seen the win, maybe.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:24 AM on November 16, 2023 [22 favorites]
I understand your frustration about how things can be framed sometimes, but I'm not sure any of what you're expressing frustration about happened with the framing of this particular speech, either in this post or the linked article.
posted by hippybear at 5:34 AM on November 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 5:34 AM on November 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
I've gotten up at a school board meeting before to speak during the two-minute Public Comment period. It's intimidating! And this guy was cool and eloquent and passionate. Very inspiring!
When a long line of parents, kids, teachers, and citizens all speak on one side of an issue, it can change the board's minds. We have gotten things changed in our town schools in the past by showing up for meetings, doing our homework, building relationships, and making convincing arguments. *shrug* Not always, but we have had wins.
Mind you, it's called "Public Comment" on the agenda and not, as was pointed out to an angry citizen one night when I was present, "public answers" because the school board doesn't have to respond no matter how loud the speakers yells. This was technically correct, but I still kind of wanted to smack the guy for being so dismissive.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:16 AM on November 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
When a long line of parents, kids, teachers, and citizens all speak on one side of an issue, it can change the board's minds. We have gotten things changed in our town schools in the past by showing up for meetings, doing our homework, building relationships, and making convincing arguments. *shrug* Not always, but we have had wins.
Mind you, it's called "Public Comment" on the agenda and not, as was pointed out to an angry citizen one night when I was present, "public answers" because the school board doesn't have to respond no matter how loud the speakers yells. This was technically correct, but I still kind of wanted to smack the guy for being so dismissive.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:16 AM on November 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
FWIW, I've spoken to school boards and city councils on several occasions, and it has helped to actively change minds (and thus votes)--for instance, we have a lovely and active community arts center in my town instead of a third sports park because of this, it took persuading a single city council member (during public comment) to change their vote to get that project approved. A short, persuasive comment given to the right elected officials when they are actually listening can be effective, especially when it's a line of folks saying the same things. (Which our nascent fascists like Moms for Liberty definitely understand.)
posted by LooseFilter at 6:22 AM on November 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by LooseFilter at 6:22 AM on November 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
Just watched the video again, so effectively said: "There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
QFT
posted by LooseFilter at 6:27 AM on November 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
QFT
posted by LooseFilter at 6:27 AM on November 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
LooseFilter: ...a line of folks saying the same things. (Which our nascent fascists like Moms for Liberty definitely understand.)
Yep, they "flood the zone" with bile, and often politicians will cave to the mob. Reasonable people have to stand up and speak.
There's a very familiar painting called "Freedom of Speech," in which a man stands and speaks in a crowded hall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Speech_%28painting%29 Wikipedia quotes Bruce Heydt as explaining, "Freedom of Speech depicts a scene of a local town meeting in which Jim Edgerton, the lone dissenter to the town selectmen's announced plans to build a new school, as the old one had burned down, was accorded the floor as a matter of protocol."
It's still vital to listen to people who have reasonable disagreements....but not Nazis or haters. They suck.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:31 AM on November 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yep, they "flood the zone" with bile, and often politicians will cave to the mob. Reasonable people have to stand up and speak.
There's a very familiar painting called "Freedom of Speech," in which a man stands and speaks in a crowded hall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Speech_%28painting%29 Wikipedia quotes Bruce Heydt as explaining, "Freedom of Speech depicts a scene of a local town meeting in which Jim Edgerton, the lone dissenter to the town selectmen's announced plans to build a new school, as the old one had burned down, was accorded the floor as a matter of protocol."
It's still vital to listen to people who have reasonable disagreements....but not Nazis or haters. They suck.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:31 AM on November 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Liberal ideas often get criticized for not being simple enough to summarize on a bumper sticker. "There's no right way to do the wrong thing" comes pretty close though. Almost as tight as "You can't murder your way to goodness."
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 6:48 AM on November 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 6:48 AM on November 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
Reasonable people have to stand up and speak.
YES
Reasonable people have to stand up and speak.
(just wanted to emphasize that)
Watching Trump's effect on the US is obviously extremely vexing, but it also presents a horrific learning opportunity that has helped me to understand some important stuff: that dictators and despots and fascists of various kinds are not especially charismatic or smart or persuasive or possessed by some kind of do-what-they-want superpower, they're just brazen and cruelly narcissistic, which makes them more committed to their own goals and more dedicated to hurting others than most people have the energy or stamina to resist; and also, that in a society, most of the population is not especially thoughtful (regardless of whether smart or dumb or anywhere in-between) and is thus fairly easily persuadable, so those doing persistent work to persuade will have some degree of success no matter what; and also it's been made plain to me that the easiest persuasion is the ugliest, inciting people's fears and resentments and stoking their anger.
So those who want a critical mass of people in our society to make better, more compassionate choices need to stand up and start speaking more loudly, and keep speaking, and flood the zone with better persuasion, especially because patience and compassion and tolerance are a harder sell than shallow self-interest, venality and anger. Which is a challenging ask, I realize, because reasonable people with thoughtful things to say typically find the shouty wrestling match of public, civic engagement distasteful (at least, I do), and it's scary and intimidating to stand up and speak, and puts you directly in front of the vitriol and anger being hurled about, but if reasonable people don't stand up and speak then the only ones standing up to speak are the unreasonable ones, and they will be persuasive despite the awfulness of their ideas because they're the only ones offering anything for the rest of us to consider.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:01 AM on November 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
YES
Reasonable people have to stand up and speak.
(just wanted to emphasize that)
Watching Trump's effect on the US is obviously extremely vexing, but it also presents a horrific learning opportunity that has helped me to understand some important stuff: that dictators and despots and fascists of various kinds are not especially charismatic or smart or persuasive or possessed by some kind of do-what-they-want superpower, they're just brazen and cruelly narcissistic, which makes them more committed to their own goals and more dedicated to hurting others than most people have the energy or stamina to resist; and also, that in a society, most of the population is not especially thoughtful (regardless of whether smart or dumb or anywhere in-between) and is thus fairly easily persuadable, so those doing persistent work to persuade will have some degree of success no matter what; and also it's been made plain to me that the easiest persuasion is the ugliest, inciting people's fears and resentments and stoking their anger.
So those who want a critical mass of people in our society to make better, more compassionate choices need to stand up and start speaking more loudly, and keep speaking, and flood the zone with better persuasion, especially because patience and compassion and tolerance are a harder sell than shallow self-interest, venality and anger. Which is a challenging ask, I realize, because reasonable people with thoughtful things to say typically find the shouty wrestling match of public, civic engagement distasteful (at least, I do), and it's scary and intimidating to stand up and speak, and puts you directly in front of the vitriol and anger being hurled about, but if reasonable people don't stand up and speak then the only ones standing up to speak are the unreasonable ones, and they will be persuasive despite the awfulness of their ideas because they're the only ones offering anything for the rest of us to consider.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:01 AM on November 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
dictators and despots and fascists of various kinds are not especially charismatic or smart or persuasive or possessed by some kind of do-what-they-want superpower, they're just brazen and cruelly narcissistic, which makes them more committed to their own goals and more dedicated to hurting others than most people have the energy or stamina to resist
WB Yeats said it best in his 1919 poem The Second Coming: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."
posted by Paul Slade at 8:22 AM on November 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
WB Yeats said it best in his 1919 poem The Second Coming: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."
posted by Paul Slade at 8:22 AM on November 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
(damn poets and their pithiness, showing the rest of us all our unnecessary words...)
posted by LooseFilter at 8:50 AM on November 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by LooseFilter at 8:50 AM on November 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
He clearly memorized and practiced that. Rock on.
posted by gottabefunky at 9:39 AM on November 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 9:39 AM on November 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments about an invalid link deleted.
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 3:22 PM on November 16, 2023
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 3:22 PM on November 16, 2023
Wow, great speech and timed to the second!
Sometimes, all it takes is one voice to make people think. A chorus of voices would be better, but one is a start.
posted by dg at 8:32 PM on November 16, 2023
Sometimes, all it takes is one voice to make people think. A chorus of voices would be better, but one is a start.
posted by dg at 8:32 PM on November 16, 2023
I've been feeling a little guilty about my grumpypants comment, so just wanted to clarify...
Sometimes, all it takes is one voice to make people think. A chorus of voices would be better, but one is a start.
I 100% agree. I think I have just been burned by some clickbaity articles that seem to frame this one voice speaking up not as a start, but as a finishing move. The way these clickbaity articles frame things would lead you to believe that after this guy spoke, the Moms for Liberty were all run out of town on a rail and the school board was turned into a liberal utopia and everything was all okay again, based solely on the power of this one two-minute speech.
That was more what I meant - that this guy's one speech is just a start. It's a very good and well-spoken start, but it is indeed just a start, and it likely did get some people thinking and hopefully they will also get up and speak as well. Because agreed, that is what we need.
I think I'm just afraid those clickbaity articles frame things in such a way that the casual reader will think "yeah, way to show 'em, guy! Now the battle's over and I don't need to do anything, awesome!" instead of "Yeah, way to show 'em, guy! That's awesome, I'm going to go do the same at my OWN school board meeting!"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:17 AM on November 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Sometimes, all it takes is one voice to make people think. A chorus of voices would be better, but one is a start.
I 100% agree. I think I have just been burned by some clickbaity articles that seem to frame this one voice speaking up not as a start, but as a finishing move. The way these clickbaity articles frame things would lead you to believe that after this guy spoke, the Moms for Liberty were all run out of town on a rail and the school board was turned into a liberal utopia and everything was all okay again, based solely on the power of this one two-minute speech.
That was more what I meant - that this guy's one speech is just a start. It's a very good and well-spoken start, but it is indeed just a start, and it likely did get some people thinking and hopefully they will also get up and speak as well. Because agreed, that is what we need.
I think I'm just afraid those clickbaity articles frame things in such a way that the casual reader will think "yeah, way to show 'em, guy! Now the battle's over and I don't need to do anything, awesome!" instead of "Yeah, way to show 'em, guy! That's awesome, I'm going to go do the same at my OWN school board meeting!"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:17 AM on November 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
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Thanks for sharing this.
posted by olykate at 8:06 PM on November 15, 2023 [3 favorites]