The Hole

December 14, 2023 1:00 AM

“Is this the land that time forgot?” Lopez gets animated as he recounts the time, money and energy he’s sunk into his home and the neighborhood. His wife wants to move. Then, he softens as he explains why he stays. “I stay here because it’s quiet. It’s peaceful,” Lopez says. “This place, it’s idyllic.” from The Tiny NYC Community Forgotten for Decades [Bloomberg; ungated]
posted by chavenet (17 comments total)

Thanks for posting, this is fascinating.
posted by mumimor at 3:43 AM on December 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

(previously)

Instead of engineering away the floods, the money would be better spent relocating the residents (if willing) and then managing the land as it returns to a wetland. Or they could fill in the hole and tie into the existing infrastructure more easily. If it stays a hole, it will be a constant battle to keep it dry.
posted by cardboard at 4:41 AM on December 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

Reminds me of a section of Howard Beach/Hamilton Beach that is just on the other side of Cross Bay Blvd. Something like 20 years ago or more, a friend led a meandering bike ride thru Queens, and even as someone who has done a lot of bike rides in that boro, that patchwork of dirt roads and canals and dead end streets was a surprise.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:55 AM on December 14, 2023 [4 favorites]

Nice article. I read about this little neighborhood (or others in NYC with the same issue?) in The Water Will Come, and I appreciate the profiles and photos in this story. (I thought the book was good, but more focused on systemic problems.)
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:05 AM on December 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

For those who like maps (I know I do), here you go. Plus Nathan Kensinger has done a bunch of photographs, as have others.
posted by BWA at 5:31 AM on December 14, 2023 [7 favorites]

Cardboard, I can’t imagine you could create a wetland out of runoff in the middle of an NYC industrial zone without concentrating toxins of various types. So much of the city is built on fill from other projects, maybe they could use the rock and dirt from the second avenue subway to fill in the Hole.
posted by rikschell at 7:12 AM on December 14, 2023 [4 favorites]

It's sensationalized for YT, but here's An Insider Tour of NYC’s Most Horrible Slum - The Hole
and NYC's Sketchiest Neighborhood? : Walking in The Hole
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:15 AM on December 14, 2023 [4 favorites]

a meandering bike ride thru Queens

Willets Point — "Iron Triangle" (the Valley of Ashes in The Great Gatsby).

Redevelopment has caused tensions.

Where is New York?* Apparitions at Willets Point, Queens
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:30 AM on December 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

great photography in that essay
posted by MonsieurPEB at 9:46 AM on December 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

I've always wanted to explore it!
posted by AJaffe at 9:59 AM on December 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

BWA, this map shows the borders of the Hole – Pitkin Yard is well outside it.
posted by nicwolff at 10:38 AM on December 14, 2023 [4 favorites]

Thanks so much for posting this, chavenet!
posted by Bella Donna at 1:04 PM on December 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

Forgot to say thanks for the ungated link, much appreciated.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:05 PM on December 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

BWA, this map shows the borders of the Hole – Pitkin Yard is well outside it.

There's a Chuck E Cheese in there, not sure there's much anyone can do at this point.
posted by maxwelton at 2:04 PM on December 14, 2023 [3 favorites]

Instead of engineering away the floods, the money would be better spent relocating the residents (if willing) and then managing the land as it returns to a wetland. Or they could fill in the hole and tie into the existing infrastructure more easily. If it stays a hole, it will be a constant battle to keep it dry.

I believe "The Hole" is the northernmost end of what used to be the Spring Creek Basin, where the marshes would give way to dry land. That's why there are platted streets and pre-war buildings in the area -- this used to be the high ground, draining into Spring Creek.

In the 1960s and 1970s, they filled in the basin / marshes south of Linden Blvd, leaving "The Hole" as the remaining, unfilled portion trapped between Linden Blvd and Conduit Ave. I imagine the reason they left "The Hole" behind is no one wanted to disturb those important road corridors.

Now it is 2023, and they are still planning every possible band-aid to drain The Hole without taking the drastic measure of closing two major roads and buying out all the property owners in order to fill the damn thing.

(This is my potted history of The Hole. I am not a subject matter expert and I don't have any good sources to link for you. It is as much rumor as fact. What little I know comes from an obsession with local politics, not hydrology.)
posted by your postings may, in fact, be signed at 9:59 AM on December 15, 2023 [3 favorites]

Cardboard, I can’t imagine you could create a wetland out of runoff in the middle of an NYC industrial zone without concentrating toxins of various types. So much of the city is built on fill from other projects, maybe they could use the rock and dirt from the second avenue subway to fill in the Hole.
posted by rikschell

Most wetland environments world-wide are basically just a collection of niche filter feeders - plant, animal, and other. Mangroves can leech heavy metals out of contaminated water, for example. (...and the climate in NYC will soon be tropical)

As long as the inflow/outflow rate is steady and controllable* you could definitely create a healthy wetland there.

*Especially including control options for severe weather.
posted by Anoplura at 7:43 PM on December 15, 2023 [4 favorites]

Snakes, Spores and Sewage: Life in the Neighborhood Called ‘the Hole’ [New York Times; ungated]
posted by chavenet at 2:17 PM on December 17, 2023 [2 favorites]