A Christmas Pardon From Dank Brandon
December 22, 2023 8:42 AM Subscribe
Following up on his previous shift in federal marijuana policy, President Biden has issued a blanket pardon for all people convicted of simple use and possession under federal law. (SLWhite House)
While this will have limited reach as the vast majority of such convictions are at the state level, this will provide relief to residents of Washington, D.C. as well as others on federal lands. Furthermore, this represents a continuing shift on marijuana policy in the US.
While this will have limited reach as the vast majority of such convictions are at the state level, this will provide relief to residents of Washington, D.C. as well as others on federal lands. Furthermore, this represents a continuing shift on marijuana policy in the US.
Green is a holiday color.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:55 AM on December 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:55 AM on December 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
Have any of the states that have legalized done something similar? Maybe it's a good time.
posted by box at 8:56 AM on December 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by box at 8:56 AM on December 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I'm hoping this encourages state governors to take similar measures. Wouldn't it be wonderful if this started a snowball effect among state governors?
posted by xedrik at 8:59 AM on December 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by xedrik at 8:59 AM on December 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
In other non-violent drug offense news, Biden has also commuted the sentences of 11 non-violent offenders who were sentenced to decades in prison.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:00 AM on December 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:00 AM on December 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
When Illinois legalized recreational use, they were the first state to do so by legislative act (as opposed to ballot initiative). Part of that was that around 47k people had arrest records expunged, in the first round and around 11k got pardoned.*
*nb this is just links from a cursory googling, look closer if you want good current numbers for IL. But the point is, yes, IL is/was doing this.
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:09 AM on December 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
*nb this is just links from a cursory googling, look closer if you want good current numbers for IL. But the point is, yes, IL is/was doing this.
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:09 AM on December 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
Have any of the states that have legalized done something similar?It’s not a blanket pardon and not quite as generous, but Washington state governor Jay Inslee will pardon anyone whose criminal record consists only of misdemeanor marijuana possession, and a 2019 law also allows courts to vacate conviction records for all misdemeanor marijuana possession offenses.
posted by mbrubeck at 9:12 AM on December 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
This is great but the question I have is: if someone with a cannabis charge on their record, does this expungement immediately register if their records were pulled, or is this "I have decreed that your charge is pardoned but it's up to you, the individual, to take the actual steps to confirm this for employment, and it isn't free."
I say this because cannabis amnesty is one of the areas I work in and a lot of times there is a charge to get your records cleared. It is one of the reasons that so many expungement programs have low outcomes. When the onus is on the individual, and likely the individual is low-income, the cost is prohibitive. An excellent resource regarding this is Waiting to Inhale by Akwasi Owusu-Bempah and Tahira Rehmatullah.
posted by Kitteh at 9:22 AM on December 22, 2023 [24 favorites]
I say this because cannabis amnesty is one of the areas I work in and a lot of times there is a charge to get your records cleared. It is one of the reasons that so many expungement programs have low outcomes. When the onus is on the individual, and likely the individual is low-income, the cost is prohibitive. An excellent resource regarding this is Waiting to Inhale by Akwasi Owusu-Bempah and Tahira Rehmatullah.
posted by Kitteh at 9:22 AM on December 22, 2023 [24 favorites]
A cursory search into Washington state expungement indicates that is free but the individual has to go to the court where the charge was laid to request expungement. Again, better, but if you are a Black person or another minority, your distrust of the police and/or trauma related to the charge and how it affected your life very much influences whether or not you go through the act of expungement. Remember: Black people are arrested and charged at higher rates for cannabis possession than the white community even now. The rise of legalization in certain US states has done nothing to level the playing field for minorities.
posted by Kitteh at 9:33 AM on December 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:33 AM on December 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
This is great news! Thanks, Biden!
posted by cupcakeninja at 9:38 AM on December 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 9:38 AM on December 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I maintain it would be wise to federally close the "use weed/sell weed to buy weed/get arrested selling weed/can't get job to pay court stuff/sell weed to pay court stuff/get arrested 2nd time/then 3rd time and hit with law based on children's game rules/lose access to society/give up on goodness sake" pipeline because i don't know if anyone noticed but it is hella clogged and not very useful.
and that is just the weed clog.
so every step especially during the holidays is lovely. Thank you, POTUSBidenator.
posted by MonsieurPEB at 9:46 AM on December 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
and that is just the weed clog.
so every step especially during the holidays is lovely. Thank you, POTUSBidenator.
posted by MonsieurPEB at 9:46 AM on December 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
Good. Now take it off the Schedule I roster.
posted by the sobsister at 10:05 AM on December 22, 2023 [41 favorites]
posted by the sobsister at 10:05 AM on December 22, 2023 [41 favorites]
Kinda reminds me of the Pope allowing Priests to bless same sex couples--it's a gesture in the right direction, but not quite enough to call it an actual step in the right direction.
posted by luckynerd at 10:19 AM on December 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by luckynerd at 10:19 AM on December 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
started a snowball effect among state governors?
I knew weed is a gateway drug!
posted by chavenet at 10:30 AM on December 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
I knew weed is a gateway drug!
posted by chavenet at 10:30 AM on December 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
On the federal side, many of the pardons will go to drug dealers, since it's common to permit small-time first-time offenders to plea to possession.
posted by MattD at 10:44 AM on December 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by MattD at 10:44 AM on December 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Having So Much Weed That You Were Surely Going To Sell It
That's a gray area though - I've known guys who sometimes had that much weed and had no intent to sell any of it.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:48 AM on December 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
That's a gray area though - I've known guys who sometimes had that much weed and had no intent to sell any of it.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:48 AM on December 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Good. Now take it off the Schedule I roster.
Already in process. IIRC already through FDA and passed to DEA.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 11:22 AM on December 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
Already in process. IIRC already through FDA and passed to DEA.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 11:22 AM on December 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
On the federal side, many of the pardons will go to drug dealers, since it's common to permit small-time first-time offenders to plea to possession.
Cite that this will result in many dealers being pardoned?
posted by Gadarene at 11:23 AM on December 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Cite that this will result in many dealers being pardoned?
posted by Gadarene at 11:23 AM on December 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
At what point do we end the legal gray area and just legalize? It's flippin' weird to be living in a state where every beer store sells THC-laden drinks, legally, but not Federally legally, but no one is enforcing it, but as a Federal employee I can still lose my job if I drink a (nearly) totally (but not Federally) legal beverage that I can buy at my neighborhood store... but it's cool if my wife has some because she's a state employee?
Just make it legal and regulate it like booze and start capturing the tax dollars already.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:26 AM on December 22, 2023 [21 favorites]
Just make it legal and regulate it like booze and start capturing the tax dollars already.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:26 AM on December 22, 2023 [21 favorites]
Have any of the states that have legalized done something similar? Maybe it's a good time.
Colorado, of course! Which works out to about 4,000 pardons between 2020 and 2021.
posted by mochapickle at 11:28 AM on December 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Colorado, of course! Which works out to about 4,000 pardons between 2020 and 2021.
posted by mochapickle at 11:28 AM on December 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
On the federal side, many of the pardons will go to drug dealers, since it's common to permit small-time first-time offenders to plea to possession.
I'm ok with this. If they stopped, it clears their record. If they didn't, it doesn't.
posted by donpardo at 11:47 AM on December 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm ok with this. If they stopped, it clears their record. If they didn't, it doesn't.
posted by donpardo at 11:47 AM on December 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
At what point do we end the legal gray area and just legalize? It's flippin' weird to be living in a state where every beer store sells THC-laden drinks, legally, but not Federally legally, but no one is enforcing it, but as a Federal employee I can still lose my job if I drink a (nearly) totally (but not Federally) legal beverage that I can buy at my neighborhood store... but it's cool if my wife has some because she's a state employee?
You think that's weird try being an immigrant! I have the risk of deportation hanging over my head if I ever test positive for marijuana use but I ride the L in Chicago and just today on both my outbound and inbound train rides I was sitting within 8 feet of someone openly smoking up.
Not only that but I had to declare I was not a nazi or communist party member in my immigration paperwork multiple times (and I'm not) yet there are open American nazis stickering up my neighborhood and some are also dining with previous President and members of congress.
Federal law is wickedly outdated because Democrats never have enough power in the senate to undo the cold-war era bullshit. Mostly because there are always some atavistic DINOs who undermine any progressive policy by siding with Republicans and Republicans support outdated policies because they hurt people and that gives them and their followers wood.
posted by srboisvert at 12:12 PM on December 22, 2023 [39 favorites]
You think that's weird try being an immigrant! I have the risk of deportation hanging over my head if I ever test positive for marijuana use but I ride the L in Chicago and just today on both my outbound and inbound train rides I was sitting within 8 feet of someone openly smoking up.
Not only that but I had to declare I was not a nazi or communist party member in my immigration paperwork multiple times (and I'm not) yet there are open American nazis stickering up my neighborhood and some are also dining with previous President and members of congress.
Federal law is wickedly outdated because Democrats never have enough power in the senate to undo the cold-war era bullshit. Mostly because there are always some atavistic DINOs who undermine any progressive policy by siding with Republicans and Republicans support outdated policies because they hurt people and that gives them and their followers wood.
posted by srboisvert at 12:12 PM on December 22, 2023 [39 favorites]
>On the federal side, many of the pardons will go to drug dealers, since it's common to permit small-time first-time offenders to plea to possession.
I am all for that. No one should be in an American prison. Certainly not for selling something people want.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 12:25 PM on December 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
I set out to find out how many souls this affects. According to the Guardian this does not free anyone in federal prison, but will help erase the stigma of past convictions (a huge obstacle for employment and housing) for “thousands”.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:39 PM on December 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:39 PM on December 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
there are people literally in this thread talking like they think weed dealers deserve criminal records.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:05 PM on December 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:05 PM on December 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
You're right; they're retailers. It's straight to the guillotine.
posted by mittens at 2:27 PM on December 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by mittens at 2:27 PM on December 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Has fuckhead also delivered a personal apology to the staffers he had fired for being honest about doing weed?
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 2:34 PM on December 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 2:34 PM on December 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
> not a nazi
US immigration asks if you where not a nazi between 1933 and 1945 specifically.
Communist party member is evergreen.
posted by NotAYakk at 2:34 PM on December 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
US immigration asks if you where not a nazi between 1933 and 1945 specifically.
Communist party member is evergreen.
posted by NotAYakk at 2:34 PM on December 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
You can’t have a federal security clearance if you do drugs and you can’t hold some jobs at the White House if you need a security clearance. Suggesting Biden had them fired is misleading propaganda. He wasn’t involved in the decision at all. The White House operated like a big company. Just like the CEO doesn’t hire or fire most employees — most White House staff are not hired or fired by Joe Biden. Hiring and firing is up to managers and ultimately the Chief of Staff. For senior positions Biden might want a change or direction or a particular person in the role; but for most jobs that need his input the Chief of Staff gets a list of candidates and presents Biden with the top options vetted by a team.
Also IMO anyone who wants a job at the White House should be smart and cunning enough to fill out their security clearance correctly. This seems like the kind of question that did its job in filtering out idiots.
posted by interogative mood at 2:49 PM on December 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Also IMO anyone who wants a job at the White House should be smart and cunning enough to fill out their security clearance correctly. This seems like the kind of question that did its job in filtering out idiots.
posted by interogative mood at 2:49 PM on December 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
So we’ve got two “the buck stops nowhere” presidents in a row, got it.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 3:09 PM on December 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 3:09 PM on December 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
Jesus man, they're moving the descheduling through the system and now Biden has taken unilateral action to help people convicted of nonviolent offences. Take the win when you get it. Sometimes good things can happen.
posted by Justinian at 4:00 PM on December 22, 2023 [53 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:00 PM on December 22, 2023 [53 favorites]
In North Carolina, possession of less than a half ounce of marijuana is a class 3 misdemeanor.
Or, as one of our judges used to say, “Son, how do you plead to almost running out of marijuana?”
posted by flarbuse at 4:43 PM on December 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
Or, as one of our judges used to say, “Son, how do you plead to almost running out of marijuana?”
posted by flarbuse at 4:43 PM on December 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
"not quite enough to call it an actual step in the right direction"
"Has fuckhead also delivered a personal apology..."
I really can't understand why the Dems don't adopt more leftist policies. We make it so attractive!
posted by agentofselection at 5:07 PM on December 22, 2023 [23 favorites]
"Has fuckhead also delivered a personal apology..."
I really can't understand why the Dems don't adopt more leftist policies. We make it so attractive!
posted by agentofselection at 5:07 PM on December 22, 2023 [23 favorites]
I don't understand why Biden hasn't just declared weed federally legal, even if it were immediately blocked by the courts he would get points for trying. Instead he's slow walking the process the same way his DOJ has slow walked the prosecution of Trump. The only thing he actually tried to push through quickly was student debt relief.
posted by zymil at 5:08 PM on December 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by zymil at 5:08 PM on December 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
The only thing he actually tried to push through quickly was student debt relief.
And that was immediately shot down...until he began to slow-walk the process, which has resulted in thousands of people having their loans forgiven. (But that may have been your point, sorry if I missed the irony!)
posted by mittens at 5:17 PM on December 22, 2023 [17 favorites]
And that was immediately shot down...until he began to slow-walk the process, which has resulted in thousands of people having their loans forgiven. (But that may have been your point, sorry if I missed the irony!)
posted by mittens at 5:17 PM on December 22, 2023 [17 favorites]
not quite enough to call it an actual step in the right direction.
Pretty sure the folks who’ll get out of jail and/or have their records cleared would disagree.
posted by dorothy hawk at 6:16 PM on December 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Pretty sure the folks who’ll get out of jail and/or have their records cleared would disagree.
posted by dorothy hawk at 6:16 PM on December 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
I don't understand why Biden hasn't just declared weed federally legal
Because he's not a dictator? And most of us don't want him to be?
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 6:56 PM on December 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
Because he's not a dictator? And most of us don't want him to be?
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 6:56 PM on December 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
Previously: Who could actually make weed legal in the US? Is that something Obama could do?
posted by Rash at 7:10 PM on December 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Rash at 7:10 PM on December 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't understand why Biden hasn't just declared weed federally legal
He doesn't have the authority. The scheduling of substances has been delegated by Congress to HHS and the DEA. Biden has directed the relevant agencies to consider it, but they are actually supposed to be exercising their expertise in studying the facts and the process takes some time.
There's so much to be angry about in our system, but I wish people would make an effort to make sure they understand what's going on before they get angry.
DC is a poor and majority nonwhite city and pardons for simple possession convictions in that jurisdiction will help a significant number of people. People will no longer find themselves blocked from renting apartments or holding jobs because they caught with a few joints once. The casual dismissal of that is distasteful.
posted by praemunire at 7:33 PM on December 22, 2023 [28 favorites]
He doesn't have the authority. The scheduling of substances has been delegated by Congress to HHS and the DEA. Biden has directed the relevant agencies to consider it, but they are actually supposed to be exercising their expertise in studying the facts and the process takes some time.
There's so much to be angry about in our system, but I wish people would make an effort to make sure they understand what's going on before they get angry.
DC is a poor and majority nonwhite city and pardons for simple possession convictions in that jurisdiction will help a significant number of people. People will no longer find themselves blocked from renting apartments or holding jobs because they caught with a few joints once. The casual dismissal of that is distasteful.
posted by praemunire at 7:33 PM on December 22, 2023 [28 favorites]
No one should be in an American prison. Certainly not for selling something people want.
I disagree.
TFG has spent his entire life selling a dream that a lot of people want for themselves, which is that in America you can become rich enough that the law becomes at most an inconvenience, and he should absolutely be in an American prison.
posted by flabdablet at 7:42 PM on December 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
I disagree.
TFG has spent his entire life selling a dream that a lot of people want for themselves, which is that in America you can become rich enough that the law becomes at most an inconvenience, and he should absolutely be in an American prison.
posted by flabdablet at 7:42 PM on December 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Jesus man, they're moving the descheduling through the system and now Biden has taken unilateral action to help people convicted of nonviolent offences. Take the win when you get it. Sometimes good things can happen.
"Forget it, Jake... it's Metafilter."
posted by jason_steakums at 9:23 PM on December 22, 2023 [20 favorites]
"Forget it, Jake... it's Metafilter."
posted by jason_steakums at 9:23 PM on December 22, 2023 [20 favorites]
Ah but does this mean "I smell weed" will no longer be the magic words to toss your car fishing for other stuff? (obvious answer is no since that would be state, but the point is weed possession is an excuse for a lot of things cops do to justify harassing people, charges and conviction just a bonus)
posted by ctmf at 9:25 PM on December 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 9:25 PM on December 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
No, it doesn't mean anything that it can't possibly mean and that Biden has no authority over and that you explicitly point out that it can't possibly mean.
I don't really mean to single you out; there's a lot of big "But Biden didn't cure my nana's arthritis" energy going on in this thread.
posted by Flunkie at 9:43 PM on December 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don't really mean to single you out; there's a lot of big "But Biden didn't cure my nana's arthritis" energy going on in this thread.
posted by Flunkie at 9:43 PM on December 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
On the federal side, many of the pardons will go to drug dealers, since it's common to permit small-time first-time offenders to plea to possession.
Good? It's a waste of time and money ruining people's lives over having sold a small amount of a substance that's on its way to being legalized everywhere. I'm not sure what your point is here.
IMO anyone who wants a job at the White House should be smart and cunning enough to fill out their security clearance correctly.
You're suggesting that the test for whether people should have access to sensitive information is whether they're smart and cunning enough to lie well? I'm unclearable at this point due to (among other things) drug use and have significant skills that DHS/CISA/etc. are desperate for. My smarts and cunning say I can make 2-3x as much working in private industry so I have no interest in trying to lie without getting caught on a security clearance interview. Really, reducing the effort required to get cleared would increase the quality of employees.
As an aside, I've pondered the weirdness of our legal relationship with drugs. Admitting to having used medical marijuana is enough to get you charged if you buy a gun, but there's plenty of federal jobs where as long as you admit to having used marijuana in the past, you can still get the clearance and job. And some of those jobs include getting issued .. guns.
posted by Candleman at 9:54 PM on December 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Good? It's a waste of time and money ruining people's lives over having sold a small amount of a substance that's on its way to being legalized everywhere. I'm not sure what your point is here.
IMO anyone who wants a job at the White House should be smart and cunning enough to fill out their security clearance correctly.
You're suggesting that the test for whether people should have access to sensitive information is whether they're smart and cunning enough to lie well? I'm unclearable at this point due to (among other things) drug use and have significant skills that DHS/CISA/etc. are desperate for. My smarts and cunning say I can make 2-3x as much working in private industry so I have no interest in trying to lie without getting caught on a security clearance interview. Really, reducing the effort required to get cleared would increase the quality of employees.
As an aside, I've pondered the weirdness of our legal relationship with drugs. Admitting to having used medical marijuana is enough to get you charged if you buy a gun, but there's plenty of federal jobs where as long as you admit to having used marijuana in the past, you can still get the clearance and job. And some of those jobs include getting issued .. guns.
posted by Candleman at 9:54 PM on December 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
So we’ve got two “the buck stops nowhere” presidents in a row, got it.
The buck stops with Joe Biden, but not the fractions of a cent. There are 1800 employees in the Executive Office of the President. The President doesn’t have time to focus on trivial HR matters involving a handful of junior staffers who couldn’t get a security clearance. Instead of focusing on such minutiae Biden focus his efforts on things like infrastructure bill, the economy, the pandemic, appointing judges, climate change, gun control legislation, etc.
posted by interogative mood at 10:07 PM on December 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
The buck stops with Joe Biden, but not the fractions of a cent. There are 1800 employees in the Executive Office of the President. The President doesn’t have time to focus on trivial HR matters involving a handful of junior staffers who couldn’t get a security clearance. Instead of focusing on such minutiae Biden focus his efforts on things like infrastructure bill, the economy, the pandemic, appointing judges, climate change, gun control legislation, etc.
posted by interogative mood at 10:07 PM on December 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One removed as a derail; there are other threads to talk about Israel/Palestine.
posted by taz (staff) at 10:52 PM on December 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 10:52 PM on December 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't really mean to single you out
And I don't feel singled out, I get what you're saying 100%. I think you might be a bit over-sensitive to people pointing out this isn't the world's greatest thing that's immediately going to solve all the world's drug enforcement problems (which in turn, nobody is suggesting, it's straw men all the way down).
People gonna yeah-but. It's what they do. I don't think anyone is saying Biden shouldn't have bothered since it's not perfect. (or maybe I missed it)
posted by ctmf at 2:03 AM on December 23, 2023
And I don't feel singled out, I get what you're saying 100%. I think you might be a bit over-sensitive to people pointing out this isn't the world's greatest thing that's immediately going to solve all the world's drug enforcement problems (which in turn, nobody is suggesting, it's straw men all the way down).
People gonna yeah-but. It's what they do. I don't think anyone is saying Biden shouldn't have bothered since it's not perfect. (or maybe I missed it)
posted by ctmf at 2:03 AM on December 23, 2023
even if it were immediately blocked by the courts he would get points for trying.
IANAL but I'm pretty sure that if it goes through the whole bureaucratic process it sticks, so it's an actual win and not just points for trying. If he tries to just declare it legal and it goes to court (which it will) then weed stays illegal while the whole lawsuit & appeals process works, which takes who knows how long. If it goes through the bureaucracy and goes to court (which it will) then it stays legal while the court system goes back and forth on it. Also any future theoretical Republican/anti-drug administration will have to go through the whole process backwards or get a whole new law passed if they want to make it illegal again, which will itself take a while if it happens at all. Also also once it's legal at the Federal level I bet there's a big state-level push to legalize/decriminalize in those states where it hasn't already happened.
Also also also, just to be somewhat cynical about it, as others have said the Feds are already partway through the process, and what if weed gets rescheduled, oh, y'know, July, August, September 2024? Heading into the election able to go, "Hey I just killed the stupidest element of the War on Drugs" is worth a lot more than points for trying.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:33 AM on December 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
IANAL but I'm pretty sure that if it goes through the whole bureaucratic process it sticks, so it's an actual win and not just points for trying. If he tries to just declare it legal and it goes to court (which it will) then weed stays illegal while the whole lawsuit & appeals process works, which takes who knows how long. If it goes through the bureaucracy and goes to court (which it will) then it stays legal while the court system goes back and forth on it. Also any future theoretical Republican/anti-drug administration will have to go through the whole process backwards or get a whole new law passed if they want to make it illegal again, which will itself take a while if it happens at all. Also also once it's legal at the Federal level I bet there's a big state-level push to legalize/decriminalize in those states where it hasn't already happened.
Also also also, just to be somewhat cynical about it, as others have said the Feds are already partway through the process, and what if weed gets rescheduled, oh, y'know, July, August, September 2024? Heading into the election able to go, "Hey I just killed the stupidest element of the War on Drugs" is worth a lot more than points for trying.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:33 AM on December 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't think anyone is saying Biden shouldn't have bothered since it's not perfect.
There is, though, this tone (which seems to inhabit most threads about Biden) that infers that the writer feels all Biden needs to do is perform a Thanos-like finger-snap and make everything the perfect world the writer dreams of, and Biden is shirking his duty by not using his superpower.
It’s frustrating as hell to see this expressed over and over in threads about something good Biden (and Obama before him) has done, and often makes me wonder if the writers have any clue about how government works, or even cares to know. And, given the disposition toward Biden many here often express, this often hits me as someone building their internal list of excuses for not voting for the guy next year, which is scary.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:49 AM on December 23, 2023 [27 favorites]
There is, though, this tone (which seems to inhabit most threads about Biden) that infers that the writer feels all Biden needs to do is perform a Thanos-like finger-snap and make everything the perfect world the writer dreams of, and Biden is shirking his duty by not using his superpower.
It’s frustrating as hell to see this expressed over and over in threads about something good Biden (and Obama before him) has done, and often makes me wonder if the writers have any clue about how government works, or even cares to know. And, given the disposition toward Biden many here often express, this often hits me as someone building their internal list of excuses for not voting for the guy next year, which is scary.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:49 AM on December 23, 2023 [27 favorites]
often makes me wonder if the writers have any clue about how government works, or even cares to know.
100%. Government at scale moves slowly, involves compromise with people you don't like or agree with, and nothing is fixed perfectly. There are alternatives that allow for unilateral responses, but generally MeFites claim not to like the idea of autocracy, so...
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:13 AM on December 23, 2023 [9 favorites]
100%. Government at scale moves slowly, involves compromise with people you don't like or agree with, and nothing is fixed perfectly. There are alternatives that allow for unilateral responses, but generally MeFites claim not to like the idea of autocracy, so...
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:13 AM on December 23, 2023 [9 favorites]
At a party, Sam takes out a joint, takes a puff and passes it onto Joe. LEO witnesses it, and arrests them both. Both go to prison. Under this pardon, only Joe goes free, since Sam in a legal sense sold the joint to Joe.
This is based on instructions I was given when on a grand jury.
posted by Sophont at 12:10 PM on December 23, 2023
This is based on instructions I was given when on a grand jury.
posted by Sophont at 12:10 PM on December 23, 2023
That is apparently true in some US jurisdictions but not others. Under Federal law it is not.
posted by mbrubeck at 2:14 PM on December 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mbrubeck at 2:14 PM on December 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Does this one actually affect anyone imprisoned at the moment or is it like the last time Biden did this?
posted by Random_Tangent at 3:19 PM on December 23, 2023
posted by Random_Tangent at 3:19 PM on December 23, 2023
Um yes, it affects thousands of people. As already stated. Did you mean release? It does not mean that, but I guarantee you that every conviction tossed for someone in prison definitely matters.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:25 PM on December 23, 2023
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:25 PM on December 23, 2023
Haven't read the whole comments here, but this may be something Biden started in 2022. NORML has the details along with the state level pardons.
https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/marijuana-pardons-and-expungements-by-the-numbers/
Virginia was pretty progressive on this when Northam was in office. Most of the 757 stopped prosecuting possession around 2019, and in fact Portsmouth's state senator Louise Lucas is actually the owner of the Cannabis Depot, which has OTC sales. Open air bazzars got some pushback, but we've got several 'paper' dispensaries on both sides of the water.
Mad props to Senator Adam Ebbin from NOVA who'd been pushing hard on decrim for several years prior to all this.
posted by daHIFI at 4:32 PM on December 23, 2023
https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/marijuana-pardons-and-expungements-by-the-numbers/
Virginia was pretty progressive on this when Northam was in office. Most of the 757 stopped prosecuting possession around 2019, and in fact Portsmouth's state senator Louise Lucas is actually the owner of the Cannabis Depot, which has OTC sales. Open air bazzars got some pushback, but we've got several 'paper' dispensaries on both sides of the water.
Mad props to Senator Adam Ebbin from NOVA who'd been pushing hard on decrim for several years prior to all this.
posted by daHIFI at 4:32 PM on December 23, 2023
In order to Have Some Weed, there has to be someone who is Selling Some Weed.
posted by manageyourexpectations at 5:36 AM on December 24, 2023
posted by manageyourexpectations at 5:36 AM on December 24, 2023
You can grow your own.
posted by soelo at 6:31 AM on December 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by soelo at 6:31 AM on December 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
In order to Have Some Weed, there has to be someone who is Selling Some Weed.
Not if you can Find Some Seed.
posted by flabdablet at 6:32 AM on December 24, 2023
Not if you can Find Some Seed.
posted by flabdablet at 6:32 AM on December 24, 2023
It's not perfect but it's good news and I'll take what I can get. Thanks Brandon!
Also, is there any actual, practical, real, enforceable limit to the Presidential pardon beyond the iffy zone of a President being unable to pardon themselves?
Like, for example, if Donald Trump had decided to spite everyone could he have issued a blanket pardon to every single person convicted of any Federal crime up to and including murder? Would that seriously would require the Federal penitentiaries to empty?
I realize I'm looking at an extreme case here, but seriously, what would stop a President from doing that?
posted by sotonohito at 12:54 PM on December 24, 2023
Also, is there any actual, practical, real, enforceable limit to the Presidential pardon beyond the iffy zone of a President being unable to pardon themselves?
Like, for example, if Donald Trump had decided to spite everyone could he have issued a blanket pardon to every single person convicted of any Federal crime up to and including murder? Would that seriously would require the Federal penitentiaries to empty?
I realize I'm looking at an extreme case here, but seriously, what would stop a President from doing that?
posted by sotonohito at 12:54 PM on December 24, 2023
As far as I am aware, nothing except political blowback.
For instance I assume there's a good chance Trump would pardon everyone convicted on federal charges with respect to Jan 6th if he wins next year.
posted by Justinian at 12:59 PM on December 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
For instance I assume there's a good chance Trump would pardon everyone convicted on federal charges with respect to Jan 6th if he wins next year.
posted by Justinian at 12:59 PM on December 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
That would require him to display something resembling loyalty to an underling, which would be playing against type.
posted by flabdablet at 6:28 PM on December 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 6:28 PM on December 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by egypturnash at 8:49 AM on December 22, 2023 [30 favorites]