They don't make them like they used to
March 14, 2024 8:15 PM Subscribe
I was on the phone, asking for a theoretical quote to reupholster a five-year-old or so midrange sofa, which cost more than $1,000 when new. That task, the upholsterer told me, would run me several times more than the couch was originally worth, and, owing to its construction, it was now worth nowhere near its sale price. The upholsterer proceeded to lecture me, in a helpful, passionate, and sometimes kindly manner, about how sofas made in the past 15 years or so are absolute garbage, constructed of sawdust compressed and bonded with cheap glue, simple brackets in place of proper joinery, substandard spring design, flimsy foam, and a lot of staples. Until recently, people had no reason to suspect that a $1,200 sofa would be anything less than high quality; the vast majority of the stuff in stores was fairly well made, and you could sit on it to test it. Today, not so much. [...] A combination of factors, including world-altering shifts in labor, manufacturing, transportation logistics, and middle-class American aesthetics, has created a grim scene: a two-year-old, $1,200 Instagram sofa—busted, on the curb, waiting for the large-item trash pickup or an enterprising scavenger who doesn’t realize just how shitty this thing is.Dwell.com asks: Why Are (Most) Sofas So Bad?
Yep. We bought a new sofa about ten years ago. It was nice and comfy. For a couple of years. Now it’s...okay? It’s still a nice place to sleep on. Sit and watch tv, not so much.
See also: That $1,800 refrigerator you just bought? Engineered to a seven year lifetime.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:39 PM on March 14 [9 favorites]
See also: That $1,800 refrigerator you just bought? Engineered to a seven year lifetime.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:39 PM on March 14 [9 favorites]
Our Room & Board sectional was pricey, but seven years later it’s in incredible shape, and when the fabric started pilling slightly (after seven years!) they gave us a $500 refund on the $4k original price. Strong recommend on that brand, though someone else will have to confirm if it’s still good quality.
A little tip: actually vacuuming, rotating, and fluffing your sofa’s cushions on a regular basis makes a big difference in its overall lifespan.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:43 PM on March 14 [15 favorites]
A little tip: actually vacuuming, rotating, and fluffing your sofa’s cushions on a regular basis makes a big difference in its overall lifespan.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:43 PM on March 14 [15 favorites]
Everything sucks now. The fridge in our apartment only does two things - keep things cold or freeze them. It looked super old when we moved into the place in 2001, but it is still keeping things cold and frozen.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:48 PM on March 14 [10 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:48 PM on March 14 [10 favorites]
Seconding Room & Board. Pieces like their Metro series are made in North Carolina by fifth generation family firms. We have been thoroughly impressed by their service — we bought a swivel chair and after a couple months decided we’d bought the wrong size. They sent out a truck to collect it and swap for the right (larger) size in fabric matching our sofa. The only cost was for the difference in price. Same family furniture maker.
I’ve been to High Point before. It’s overwhelming. In the end my take was, furniture will only be as good as the people making it. If they care about what they’re doing it can last centuries. I’d really rather not throw away something as big as a couch.
posted by apathy at 8:54 PM on March 14 [11 favorites]
I’ve been to High Point before. It’s overwhelming. In the end my take was, furniture will only be as good as the people making it. If they care about what they’re doing it can last centuries. I’d really rather not throw away something as big as a couch.
posted by apathy at 8:54 PM on March 14 [11 favorites]
That $1,800 refrigerator you just bought? Engineered to a seven year lifetime.
Yep. We replaced a refrigerator (our second in this house) this spring and a stove (third in this house) a year ago. I'm thrilled to be adding to our state's landfill crisis.
The planned obsolescence infuriates me. It's costly, goes against the idea of quality products, and is a disaster, environmentally speaking.
And don't get me started on computers. My 3-year-old Dell laptop is gasping out its last breaths.
posted by Arctan at 9:06 PM on March 14 [15 favorites]
Yep. We replaced a refrigerator (our second in this house) this spring and a stove (third in this house) a year ago. I'm thrilled to be adding to our state's landfill crisis.
The planned obsolescence infuriates me. It's costly, goes against the idea of quality products, and is a disaster, environmentally speaking.
And don't get me started on computers. My 3-year-old Dell laptop is gasping out its last breaths.
posted by Arctan at 9:06 PM on March 14 [15 favorites]
I feel lucky that our couch (bought in 2016 from a local furniture store on sale for $400) has held up pretty well with a $40 whack of memory foam under the cushions and a $20 bit of spare plywood under that; it's hard to feel that four to five figures as some sort of minimum for serviceable furniture is at all reasonable, though of course everyone's minima and budget will vary.
posted by Earthtopus at 9:06 PM on March 14 [3 favorites]
posted by Earthtopus at 9:06 PM on March 14 [3 favorites]
Buy your furniture from corporate providers; my sofa is built to accept a couple hundred people per day and as a consequence after five years it’s basically brand new. Built out of steel and high density foam with slipcovers that can be removed and laundered.
Modern American royalty are corporations, so buy from their suppliers. Anything aimed at human beings who will use the products themselves will inevitably suck.
posted by aramaic at 9:12 PM on March 14 [70 favorites]
Modern American royalty are corporations, so buy from their suppliers. Anything aimed at human beings who will use the products themselves will inevitably suck.
posted by aramaic at 9:12 PM on March 14 [70 favorites]
I bought an IKEA sofa and recliner (both Ektorp, I think?) for about $600-800 total around 12 years ago. Both are still fine - and so are all the other IKEA pieces I bought around the same time. As well, one of my midrange laptops is still going strong after 12 years (though it won't run Windows 11 so I'll probably switch it to Linux once Windows 10 updates end) and the other lasted 10 years before giving up the ghost. My car is 16 years old and continues to run great, though to be fair it's still only at 90k miles.
I honestly don't know whether I'm lucky, or unusually easy-going on stuff, or I somehow managed to avoid the crap brands that wear out fast...?
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:17 PM on March 14 [4 favorites]
I honestly don't know whether I'm lucky, or unusually easy-going on stuff, or I somehow managed to avoid the crap brands that wear out fast...?
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:17 PM on March 14 [4 favorites]
In 1985 or so, we bought a vintage couch and chair from a yard sale. Wool-backed velvet, probably made in the 40s to look mildly Art Deco. Sturdy. Came with wool moths, but that got resolved. Had them reupholstered @ 20 years ago. Still using them quite happily, though they need to be reupholstered again.
Goods are made to be sold, not really to be used. I'd bet marketing was as much of the cost of that sofa as manufacturing.
posted by theora55 at 9:29 PM on March 14 [5 favorites]
Goods are made to be sold, not really to be used. I'd bet marketing was as much of the cost of that sofa as manufacturing.
posted by theora55 at 9:29 PM on March 14 [5 favorites]
It's definitely another aspect of enshitification, but this one more of the nickel Coke variety and consumer demand against corporate profits model. People have gotten used to cheap new stuff. Companies will keep cutting corners to make their stuff cheaper for them while holding the price "relatively" low.
That tank of a fridge we had when I was a kid in the 80's - you know the mustard Kenmore - was ~$500 new back then - so about $1,900 today. Same size, same feature set Kenmore top freezer fridge costs $974 on Amazon. That extra $900 difference has to come from somewhere!
Just about 5 years back my wife and I bought a new kitchen seat - stove, micro, dishwasher, fridge. Brand name, slick looking, low feature set. They're all broken now in various ways. Plastic parts broken off, etc. It's absolutely maddening.
It's also why we generally only buy vintage furniture. (Sitting near my 1960's MCM vintage "Drew" bedroom furniture, looking at my books in an even more antique Globe-Wernicke bookcase , rocking in my really vintage rocking chair that I inherited from my granddad.)
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:40 PM on March 14 [7 favorites]
That tank of a fridge we had when I was a kid in the 80's - you know the mustard Kenmore - was ~$500 new back then - so about $1,900 today. Same size, same feature set Kenmore top freezer fridge costs $974 on Amazon. That extra $900 difference has to come from somewhere!
Just about 5 years back my wife and I bought a new kitchen seat - stove, micro, dishwasher, fridge. Brand name, slick looking, low feature set. They're all broken now in various ways. Plastic parts broken off, etc. It's absolutely maddening.
It's also why we generally only buy vintage furniture. (Sitting near my 1960's MCM vintage "Drew" bedroom furniture, looking at my books in an even more antique Globe-Wernicke bookcase , rocking in my really vintage rocking chair that I inherited from my granddad.)
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:40 PM on March 14 [7 favorites]
Kiln dried hardwood, hand-tied springs, made in North Carolina. I’ve had my grandmother’s sofa moved at least 5 times, recovered 4 times, reupholstered once and at least 15 slipcovers made. Comfy, classic and the benefits have greatly outweighed the cost.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:47 PM on March 14 [9 favorites]
posted by Ideefixe at 9:47 PM on March 14 [9 favorites]
Also here to pitch the cult of Room & Board. We've had our sofa for a decade and despite the kids jumping on it for at least fifteen minutes a day, every day, for the past five years, it's still as comfy as when it was new. I just sanded down and refinished the table we got there a few months ago and it looks amazing. They sell solid stuff.
(The other thing I like about Room & Board is that, at least where we are, the sales staff doesn't work on commission, so you can actually wander around and try things and have conversations about the furniture without anyone trying to pressure you into making a purchase.)
posted by phooky at 9:50 PM on March 14 [9 favorites]
(The other thing I like about Room & Board is that, at least where we are, the sales staff doesn't work on commission, so you can actually wander around and try things and have conversations about the furniture without anyone trying to pressure you into making a purchase.)
posted by phooky at 9:50 PM on March 14 [9 favorites]
The markup on furniture is insane. That $1200 sofa probably cost the retailer $300-$400. At that rate you’re not going to get the higher quality stuff. It’s sad, because it is possible to get high-quality, long-lasting furniture, but it’s too expensive for a lot of people.
On a side note… I scored a cheap bolt of outdoor fabric a while back and decided to take a shot at making an awning for our trailer. It came out great, thanks to the YT videos from Sailrite. And now their videos have me wanting to start learning upholstery. Someone stop me from myself.
posted by azpenguin at 9:54 PM on March 14 [6 favorites]
On a side note… I scored a cheap bolt of outdoor fabric a while back and decided to take a shot at making an awning for our trailer. It came out great, thanks to the YT videos from Sailrite. And now their videos have me wanting to start learning upholstery. Someone stop me from myself.
posted by azpenguin at 9:54 PM on March 14 [6 favorites]
This makes me feel good about learning how to fix leather upholstery seams for my 15 year old couch. (It was hard but doable and there are YouTube videos).
posted by bq at 10:10 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 10:10 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]
In these godless times, I build my own furniture. Ymmv.
posted by cosmologinaut at 10:15 PM on March 14 [9 favorites]
posted by cosmologinaut at 10:15 PM on March 14 [9 favorites]
I found Grand Rapids furniture to be quite sound.
posted by clavdivs at 10:23 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 10:23 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]
Won't help for furniture, but for the "something just snapped off" problem that happens with appliances so often nowadays, get yourself some Sugru. It comes in small packets which when opened, give you ample time to mold it to whatever you need. It is odorless and cures to a hard rubbery texture. Comes in multiple colors. The aesthetics of it aren't fantastic, but it gave my household a third option between "don't use the deli drawer because it's broken and there's no replacement." and "buy an entirely new refrigerator."
posted by microscone at 10:26 PM on March 14 [24 favorites]
posted by microscone at 10:26 PM on March 14 [24 favorites]
Until recently, people had no reason to suspect that a $1,200 sofa would be anything less than high quality;
Well, people who had no idea how much high quality furniture actually costs, perhaps.
10 years ago, my wife used to run a West Elm up in Palo Alto, and the worst, worst, worst customers were those who thought spending ~$2.5k on a couch made them big spenders as far as furniture goes. It certainly did not. West Elm's stuff might not come flat packed so you had to build it at home, but it's still positioned way down near at bottom of the market. It's literally the poorer, younger, but hipper little sister of the William-Sonoma family.
She'd have customers buying their Dekalb sectionals and whatever and they'd think they were at a Hemés showroom choosing their Birkin bag. They'd throw a fit when they found out that not only did they have to pay to get it shipped (assuming they didn't want to pick it up from the store themselves), but the delivery people weren't going to re-arrange their existing furniture and take way whatever didn't fit. I can only imagine that if they went to an actual expensive future store, like Design With Reach, they would stroke out and die once they took a look at their first price tag.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 11:08 PM on March 14 [10 favorites]
Well, people who had no idea how much high quality furniture actually costs, perhaps.
10 years ago, my wife used to run a West Elm up in Palo Alto, and the worst, worst, worst customers were those who thought spending ~$2.5k on a couch made them big spenders as far as furniture goes. It certainly did not. West Elm's stuff might not come flat packed so you had to build it at home, but it's still positioned way down near at bottom of the market. It's literally the poorer, younger, but hipper little sister of the William-Sonoma family.
She'd have customers buying their Dekalb sectionals and whatever and they'd think they were at a Hemés showroom choosing their Birkin bag. They'd throw a fit when they found out that not only did they have to pay to get it shipped (assuming they didn't want to pick it up from the store themselves), but the delivery people weren't going to re-arrange their existing furniture and take way whatever didn't fit. I can only imagine that if they went to an actual expensive future store, like Design With Reach, they would stroke out and die once they took a look at their first price tag.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 11:08 PM on March 14 [10 favorites]
I bought a comfy plush couch and armchair at a random Fred Meyers in Oregon in 2008 for maybe $600 max and they're still extremely comfortable and going strong, knock on wood.
Going to have to furnish a couple of additional rooms in the next few months and not looking forward to the apparently precipitous decline in quality nowadays.
posted by Gadarene at 11:24 PM on March 14
Going to have to furnish a couple of additional rooms in the next few months and not looking forward to the apparently precipitous decline in quality nowadays.
posted by Gadarene at 11:24 PM on March 14
the "something just snapped off" problem that happens with appliances so often nowadays
That's what those of us with 3D printers live for.
posted by MrVisible at 11:26 PM on March 14 [12 favorites]
That's what those of us with 3D printers live for.
posted by MrVisible at 11:26 PM on March 14 [12 favorites]
I've had my sofa and matching chair-and-a-half for...er...30 years now (jeebus) and they now look every year of it, especially with the arrival of mr dog a few years ago. The structure is fine but the fabric is splitting everywhere. They came from a local highish-end furniture store called Kasala (good stuff, at least back then, maybe still?) and I bought them slightly used via work's classifieds. I think I paid 2K used and originally they were 5 or 6.
I keep threatening to get an "industrial" (heavy-duty walking-foot) sewing machine so I can learn to do my own leather interiors on car restorations, and if I do...who am I kidding? The sofa's design is such that it is all precise seams and large expanses of fabric over broad curves, anything even a smidge out of place or not arrow-straight and it will look worse than just getting another cheap sofa.
posted by maxwelton at 11:34 PM on March 14 [2 favorites]
I keep threatening to get an "industrial" (heavy-duty walking-foot) sewing machine so I can learn to do my own leather interiors on car restorations, and if I do...who am I kidding? The sofa's design is such that it is all precise seams and large expanses of fabric over broad curves, anything even a smidge out of place or not arrow-straight and it will look worse than just getting another cheap sofa.
posted by maxwelton at 11:34 PM on March 14 [2 favorites]
10 years ago, my wife used to run a West Elm up in Palo Alto, and the worst, worst, worst customers were those who thought spending ~$2.5k on a couch made them big spenders as far as furniture goes.
$2.5k on a couch ten years ago, though--that's massive for many/most middle-class families. Why wouldn't they expect a decent of service at that price point? I'm confused about what your gripe is with this comment. Making fun of poor plebes, out of their depth at West Elm??
posted by knotty knots at 11:34 PM on March 14 [71 favorites]
$2.5k on a couch ten years ago, though--that's massive for many/most middle-class families. Why wouldn't they expect a decent of service at that price point? I'm confused about what your gripe is with this comment. Making fun of poor plebes, out of their depth at West Elm??
posted by knotty knots at 11:34 PM on March 14 [71 favorites]
I got a Joybird Hughes sofa 3 years ago, and it still looks and feels new. For whatever reason, Joybird has a ton of terrible reviews on Reddit, so maybe I got lucky? But it sees daily use, and it's solid, comfy, and I've had zero problems with it.
posted by fnerg at 11:38 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]
posted by fnerg at 11:38 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]
I like how he raises the question of where the $1K goes since the sofa is made of sawdust and foam…and never answers it. I'm guessing there's just a few people at the top of the furniture-industrial complex who live in huge houses with horse stables and vast wine cellars and who donate to republican candidates. Same old story.
posted by jabah at 11:49 PM on March 14 [14 favorites]
posted by jabah at 11:49 PM on March 14 [14 favorites]
We bought our couch and ottoman 12ish years ago from Macy's and it was one of the best purchases I've made. It was expensive, at least for me, certainly I was younger and foolish and it was likely more than I should have spent. But man, it has served us well, it's leather and still going strong. A few places are showing some wear, but most of the couch looks great. I hope it is possible to repair a cushion here or there if it ever really does get scratched, but I don't know enough about the upholstery of leather to know for sure.
posted by Carillon at 12:40 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
posted by Carillon at 12:40 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
This is nothing surprising, given it describes the way everything is going. We really have ourselves to blame (obviously, not everyone, as this thred shows), because we sought cheaper and cheaper furniture without thinking or caring how long it would last or if it could actually stand up to normal household wear.
As with everything else these days, it seems, people are not prepared to invest in quality furniture that's going to last them half a lifetime - they'd rather buy something cheap and shitty, then sell it and get a shiny new one when it inevitably falls apart. Similarly, nobody seems to want second-hand furniture at any price and it seems they'd rather rack up credit card debt just to get something new. When my (now) wife and I set up home together, we had a LOT of excess furniture and we ended up binning a lot of it, because we couldn't give it away, never mind sell it. Even with the offer of delivery, nobody wanted our good quality furniture because it wasn't new.
You actually can, in my experience, still buy reasonable furniture at reasonable prices, but you have to really look for it, because almost everything is crap. It's not just cheap furniture that's crap either, because lots of 'high end' furniture is made of the same shitty materials in the same sweat shops as the bargain-basement stuff. Sometimes decent furniture comes in surprising places - I bought our couch from Ikea (as well as the four-seater shown, we got a corner unit and three-seater that make up a massive piece of furniture) about seven years ago and, while most of their furniture of pretty flimsy, this thing is rock solid. Yes, it came in 13 boxes and I had to assemble it myself, but that meant I could dissasemble it when we moved and put it back together differently to fit into a very different room. All the covers zip off and are machine-washable. After maybe 8-10 washes they still look pretty good and the cushions or the frame haven't collapsed the way other couches I've had did. It cost me about $1,400 at the time and they're still available, albeit for quite a bit more than that today.
posted by dg at 1:08 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
As with everything else these days, it seems, people are not prepared to invest in quality furniture that's going to last them half a lifetime - they'd rather buy something cheap and shitty, then sell it and get a shiny new one when it inevitably falls apart. Similarly, nobody seems to want second-hand furniture at any price and it seems they'd rather rack up credit card debt just to get something new. When my (now) wife and I set up home together, we had a LOT of excess furniture and we ended up binning a lot of it, because we couldn't give it away, never mind sell it. Even with the offer of delivery, nobody wanted our good quality furniture because it wasn't new.
You actually can, in my experience, still buy reasonable furniture at reasonable prices, but you have to really look for it, because almost everything is crap. It's not just cheap furniture that's crap either, because lots of 'high end' furniture is made of the same shitty materials in the same sweat shops as the bargain-basement stuff. Sometimes decent furniture comes in surprising places - I bought our couch from Ikea (as well as the four-seater shown, we got a corner unit and three-seater that make up a massive piece of furniture) about seven years ago and, while most of their furniture of pretty flimsy, this thing is rock solid. Yes, it came in 13 boxes and I had to assemble it myself, but that meant I could dissasemble it when we moved and put it back together differently to fit into a very different room. All the covers zip off and are machine-washable. After maybe 8-10 washes they still look pretty good and the cushions or the frame haven't collapsed the way other couches I've had did. It cost me about $1,400 at the time and they're still available, albeit for quite a bit more than that today.
posted by dg at 1:08 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
As for recaning, I was quoted €80 to recane an armchair. Haven't done it yet but am not going to haggle with that.
posted by chavenet at 1:56 AM on March 15
posted by chavenet at 1:56 AM on March 15
On a side note… I scored a cheap bolt of outdoor fabric a while back and decided to take a shot at making an awning for our trailer. It came out great, thanks to the YT videos from Sailrite. And now their videos have me wanting to start learning upholstery. Someone stop me from myself
I WILL NOT STOP YOU. Learning how to reupholster or make your own furniture is the best! Before the onslsught of Youtube videos, I spent some time in Minneapolis learning how to do it the right way, because I was self taught and winging it. Turns out it's mostly common sense and I was doing it the right way for the most part anyway, but I probably had some help from my years at FIT for clothing design, many of the same principles but for covering differently shaped items.
This makes me feel good about learning how to fix leather upholstery seams for my 15 year old couch. (It was hard but doable and there are YouTube videos).
I keep threatening to get an "industrial" (heavy-duty walking-foot) sewing machine so I can learn to do my own leather interiors on car restorations, and if I do...who am I kidding?
Do it! There are enough youtube videos showing all aspects and it's not that hard, it can be time consuming but if you treat it as a new hobby your learning and take your time, over the course of several months you can rebuild or build a new sofa. Or in a week or two if you just wanna get it done.
I highly recommend the Cechaflo videos for working with upholstery leather. He mainly does car interior work, but the same concepts apply to furniture.
And for a heavy duty sewing machine that can handle the heavy stiff leathers, I recommend the SailRite brand. They are basic no frills but get the job done.
There are also a ton of restoration instructionals for restoring old leather. It's pretty easy and doesn't take a huge amount of time.
I've made my own sofas for many years now, mainly because after I splurged on my first "expensive" sofa (about 3k more than 20 years ago), I saw that the arms and back were mainly lightweight plywood boxes with layers of foam then muslin then finally the upholstery fabric around them. I like clean straight lines, somewhat modern looking stuff so that makes it easier, but my most recent build is a sofa that lines the wall of my den and curves around a bump out and into the living room so that was a bit more challenging.
The first iterations were kinda rough, but over the years my skills have got more refined, and this last time I graduated to webbing and springs and more proper techniques. Upholstery fabric can be found relatively inexpensively online for great quality stuff, and I get to make exactly what I like (deep seats, blocky arms that I can rest a laptop or plate on, exact measurements to fit my space, weird color upholstery that I'm into at the moment.).
I had to take apart my last sofa to get rid of what I didn't want, but because I'd screwed and bolted instead of glued the framing materials together (glued would have been better for longevity, but I also know myself and knew that 5 years would be the max lifespan before I grew tired of it) I reused I'd say about 80-85% of the materials in that sofa. I even repurposed some of the old upholstery into a massive dog bed for my pooch.
10 years ago, my wife used to run a West Elm up in Palo Alto,.... It's literally the poorer, younger, but hipper little sister of the William-Sonoma family
West Elm infuriates me no end....it is literally garbage marketed as pinnacle of design or something. It's literally designed to be bad. I can't even talk about how bad it is because I get so upset that people fall for it.
posted by newpotato at 2:43 AM on March 15 [22 favorites]
I WILL NOT STOP YOU. Learning how to reupholster or make your own furniture is the best! Before the onslsught of Youtube videos, I spent some time in Minneapolis learning how to do it the right way, because I was self taught and winging it. Turns out it's mostly common sense and I was doing it the right way for the most part anyway, but I probably had some help from my years at FIT for clothing design, many of the same principles but for covering differently shaped items.
This makes me feel good about learning how to fix leather upholstery seams for my 15 year old couch. (It was hard but doable and there are YouTube videos).
I keep threatening to get an "industrial" (heavy-duty walking-foot) sewing machine so I can learn to do my own leather interiors on car restorations, and if I do...who am I kidding?
Do it! There are enough youtube videos showing all aspects and it's not that hard, it can be time consuming but if you treat it as a new hobby your learning and take your time, over the course of several months you can rebuild or build a new sofa. Or in a week or two if you just wanna get it done.
I highly recommend the Cechaflo videos for working with upholstery leather. He mainly does car interior work, but the same concepts apply to furniture.
And for a heavy duty sewing machine that can handle the heavy stiff leathers, I recommend the SailRite brand. They are basic no frills but get the job done.
There are also a ton of restoration instructionals for restoring old leather. It's pretty easy and doesn't take a huge amount of time.
I've made my own sofas for many years now, mainly because after I splurged on my first "expensive" sofa (about 3k more than 20 years ago), I saw that the arms and back were mainly lightweight plywood boxes with layers of foam then muslin then finally the upholstery fabric around them. I like clean straight lines, somewhat modern looking stuff so that makes it easier, but my most recent build is a sofa that lines the wall of my den and curves around a bump out and into the living room so that was a bit more challenging.
The first iterations were kinda rough, but over the years my skills have got more refined, and this last time I graduated to webbing and springs and more proper techniques. Upholstery fabric can be found relatively inexpensively online for great quality stuff, and I get to make exactly what I like (deep seats, blocky arms that I can rest a laptop or plate on, exact measurements to fit my space, weird color upholstery that I'm into at the moment.).
I had to take apart my last sofa to get rid of what I didn't want, but because I'd screwed and bolted instead of glued the framing materials together (glued would have been better for longevity, but I also know myself and knew that 5 years would be the max lifespan before I grew tired of it) I reused I'd say about 80-85% of the materials in that sofa. I even repurposed some of the old upholstery into a massive dog bed for my pooch.
10 years ago, my wife used to run a West Elm up in Palo Alto,.... It's literally the poorer, younger, but hipper little sister of the William-Sonoma family
West Elm infuriates me no end....it is literally garbage marketed as pinnacle of design or something. It's literally designed to be bad. I can't even talk about how bad it is because I get so upset that people fall for it.
posted by newpotato at 2:43 AM on March 15 [22 favorites]
Furniture anyone can fix: inside the new ‘right to repair’ movement that’s taking its cues from tech
Little of the furniture produced for the high street today will survive 10 years, nevermind 50 –.
“It’s just not good enough quality. The furniture design industry has gone the way of the fashion industry,” says circular design specialist Katie Treggiden, whose new book Broken: Mending and Repair in a Throwaway World posits the act of repair as a powerful tool in the battle against ditch-it culture. In as little as a generation, she says, we have lost both the ability and appetite to fix.
posted by infini at 2:50 AM on March 15 [7 favorites]
Little of the furniture produced for the high street today will survive 10 years, nevermind 50 –.
“It’s just not good enough quality. The furniture design industry has gone the way of the fashion industry,” says circular design specialist Katie Treggiden, whose new book Broken: Mending and Repair in a Throwaway World posits the act of repair as a powerful tool in the battle against ditch-it culture. In as little as a generation, she says, we have lost both the ability and appetite to fix.
posted by infini at 2:50 AM on March 15 [7 favorites]
I knew about the poor quality of most couches when it came time to buy new. I knew that four digit couch from West Elm or Wayfair or Ikea wouldn't last us so I decided that we would scour our area for something sturdily built. We discovered in our city a furniture store that specialized in Ontario furniture makers and after a few hours of sitting on couches of all kinds, we found an excellent couch that will last. We even bought some beautiful bar chairs from a Mennonite maker.
posted by Kitteh at 3:52 AM on March 15 [7 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 3:52 AM on March 15 [7 favorites]
I'm from NC and have multiple cousins on both sides of the family who work in the furniture industry in High Point, but I admit I never seriously considered trying to buy furniture from there because I assumed it was unobtainably expensive for the middle class. We have lots of lovely stuff passed down through the family, but I thought for new it was probably just Ikea for folks like me. Thanks for the link to Room & Board!
posted by hydropsyche at 4:00 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 4:00 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
Our family knows only too well that sofas don’t last, generally after replacing about 5 in a row (a few lightly used). At the heart of it is we have a Very Heavy person in the household, but still! Ultimately we went with This End Up/Cargo style sofa with custom fabric pads AND a designated recliner for Very Large people use…and the recliner has had at least one interim patch after a year. It’s been expensive and disheartening on the sofa experience.
posted by childofTethys at 4:29 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
posted by childofTethys at 4:29 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
The furniture factory Artistic Upholstery in Nottingham UK still construct Sofas built to last with sustainable hardwoods.
posted by Lanark at 4:51 AM on March 15 [2 favorites]
posted by Lanark at 4:51 AM on March 15 [2 favorites]
We bought all our Craftsman-style bedroom furniture from Stickley. It was staggeringly expensive and probably not doable except that they had great no-interest financing. It is U.S. made and very beautifully and solidly constructed.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:52 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:52 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
I guess I'm not surprised that a post about the quality of sofas declining is full of responses about how I, a smart person, bought a sofa from the correct high-end retailer or hand crafted my own or scoured secondhand shops or knew the intricacies of how sofas are made and therefore that $2500 could not possibly be enough to spend for a quality sofa.
I will agree with the posts that the better IKEA sectionals are the way to go if you don't have $4k+ (!!!) to spend on a couch. I had one for years, and the best part was when I was able to buy new slipcovers in a different color, which gave it an entirely new life and bought us a few more years.
But I don't think it's unreasonable for people, including myself, to have believed that spending twice as much as we did on an IKEA couch would get us a better one. We went with Joybird and it's fine but not great - my partner is heavy and spends a lot of time on the couch and I feel there are sunken areas just 4 years in. It didn't help that he sustained a major injury that had him sleeping on the couch for a couple months because he couldn't get up the stairs. But it's pretty and the fabric is very pet friendly/cat-proof which I appreciate. My biggest regret actually is choosing tufted bottom cushions, because it means I can't remove the covers for cleaning or to add more foam.
Meanwhile I'm desperately in the market for a new dining set but continue to sit on ugly chairs that are falling apart and a table with a completely marred surface because I know that my knowledge about quality furniture is limited, and everything is SO EXPENSIVE. So I'm struck with decision fatigue precisely because I know I'm gonna have to spend a minimum of $5k to get a set that's, like, made of real wood and won't get immediately ruined by the realities of daily life. (Yet this falling-apart set was from World Market and very affordable and is approaching 20 years old, so has more than lived up to expectations!)
We're seeing the same thing in clothing, where in my opinion retailers are taking advantage of a combination of inflation and this no-longer-accurate perception that if you spend more money you'll get commensurate better quality. It's like people are finally agreeing that they need to invest in quality pieces, but then even brands known to be "good" are skimping but keeping the investment-level price points. I've seen plenty of videos from experts in fashion and garment construction critiquing the quality of $500-and-up pieces of clothing. Literally comparing them to Target-level quality and in some cases the Target dupe winning.
It's all bananas and while yes, it would be nice if we could all learn what goes into a quality couch and be able to make purchases accordingly, it sucks that we have to and that doing so apparently would take nearly an entire month of my take-home pay.
posted by misskaz at 5:37 AM on March 15 [46 favorites]
I will agree with the posts that the better IKEA sectionals are the way to go if you don't have $4k+ (!!!) to spend on a couch. I had one for years, and the best part was when I was able to buy new slipcovers in a different color, which gave it an entirely new life and bought us a few more years.
But I don't think it's unreasonable for people, including myself, to have believed that spending twice as much as we did on an IKEA couch would get us a better one. We went with Joybird and it's fine but not great - my partner is heavy and spends a lot of time on the couch and I feel there are sunken areas just 4 years in. It didn't help that he sustained a major injury that had him sleeping on the couch for a couple months because he couldn't get up the stairs. But it's pretty and the fabric is very pet friendly/cat-proof which I appreciate. My biggest regret actually is choosing tufted bottom cushions, because it means I can't remove the covers for cleaning or to add more foam.
Meanwhile I'm desperately in the market for a new dining set but continue to sit on ugly chairs that are falling apart and a table with a completely marred surface because I know that my knowledge about quality furniture is limited, and everything is SO EXPENSIVE. So I'm struck with decision fatigue precisely because I know I'm gonna have to spend a minimum of $5k to get a set that's, like, made of real wood and won't get immediately ruined by the realities of daily life. (Yet this falling-apart set was from World Market and very affordable and is approaching 20 years old, so has more than lived up to expectations!)
We're seeing the same thing in clothing, where in my opinion retailers are taking advantage of a combination of inflation and this no-longer-accurate perception that if you spend more money you'll get commensurate better quality. It's like people are finally agreeing that they need to invest in quality pieces, but then even brands known to be "good" are skimping but keeping the investment-level price points. I've seen plenty of videos from experts in fashion and garment construction critiquing the quality of $500-and-up pieces of clothing. Literally comparing them to Target-level quality and in some cases the Target dupe winning.
It's all bananas and while yes, it would be nice if we could all learn what goes into a quality couch and be able to make purchases accordingly, it sucks that we have to and that doing so apparently would take nearly an entire month of my take-home pay.
posted by misskaz at 5:37 AM on March 15 [46 favorites]
I was in the dentist this morning. She apologetically outlined how much each step of the current process - the endodontist - the 3D X-ray - the root-canal - the crown - was likely to cost. I brushed and flossed it all aside with " these all sound super-reasonable; we're in the market for a . . . New Sofa"
posted by BobTheScientist at 5:48 AM on March 15 [8 favorites]
posted by BobTheScientist at 5:48 AM on March 15 [8 favorites]
Since we were married we have gone through four couches, two tables, one full bedroom set and numerous appliances. After the last couch collapsed when spouse tossed kiddo onto it while wrestling, we broke down and now both our living room and family room are furnished with LoveSac sectionals, aka "LEGO furniture". Expensive, but 1/2 the set is over 12 years old and still like new and they offer free financing. eBay does a decent business in second-hand covers so it looks a bit eclectic as we had to replace some of the covers due to cat damage. It has held up to fort building, kid and husband jumping and kitty shenanigans, family gatherings.
The rest of the house is either antiques we were gifted/picked up in the past 2 decades when we had the money or pieces commissioned from Ohio Amish country that we were able to finance and pay upon delivery. The shocker was our dining room table, which was 1/3 the price and 100x the quality in comparison to similar tables from the furniture stores in our area. Spouse actually asked if they were making any money on the sale. We sourced the chairs from outlet sales, so nothing matches and it looks amazing. Once we broke out of the thought that everything had to coordinate, it got easier.
But I still cringe thinking about how much money we have wasted on bad furniture over the years.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 6:03 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
The rest of the house is either antiques we were gifted/picked up in the past 2 decades when we had the money or pieces commissioned from Ohio Amish country that we were able to finance and pay upon delivery. The shocker was our dining room table, which was 1/3 the price and 100x the quality in comparison to similar tables from the furniture stores in our area. Spouse actually asked if they were making any money on the sale. We sourced the chairs from outlet sales, so nothing matches and it looks amazing. Once we broke out of the thought that everything had to coordinate, it got easier.
But I still cringe thinking about how much money we have wasted on bad furniture over the years.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 6:03 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
My wife and I have picked up some fantastic vintage furniture for next to nothing at Habitat For Humanity over the years. Every time I go into the store in my hometown I’m shocked by how much good stuff there is for sale.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:08 AM on March 15 [8 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:08 AM on March 15 [8 favorites]
maxwelton, if you've had the stuff 30 years and the structure is fine, the only problem is the upholstery is wrecked, for God's sake hang on to it and just get it reupholstered. I did this for my grandmother's 60?- 70?-year-old sofa because the cat destroyed the upholstery. To be fair to the cat, she was assisted by a pair of woodpeckers high on fermented mulberries who flew down the chimney one day while we were at work, couldn't figure out how to get out again, and spent an unknown period of time dive-bombing everything in the living room with indelible purple mulberry scat. Reupholstering costs the same eye-watering amount as a new, crappy sofa that will fall apart, and the upholsterer will pick your destroyed sofa up from your house and redeliver it when it's finished looking fantastic. So the hassle-factor is lower because you get a basically brand new sofa and you don't have to deal with landfilling the old sofa.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:11 AM on March 15 [24 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 6:11 AM on March 15 [24 favorites]
Our 20+ yo Ektorp is still ok-ish. I have replaced the slipcovers 3 times - this last one via Bemz - a company that specializes in affordable slopcovers for IKEA furniture. But I can feel that the couch is coming to the end of the line and I know how much it will cost to replace it with something decent. My son has my parents' 70+ yo sofa and he will have it reupholstered. They definitely don't make them like that any more - I'll eventually get the old armchairs from my folks' household re-upholstered for just that reason.
posted by leslies at 6:26 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
posted by leslies at 6:26 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
I guess I'm not surprised that a post about the quality of sofas declining is full of responses about how I, a smart person, bought a sofa from the correct high-end retailer or hand crafted my own or scoured secondhand shops or knew the intricacies of how sofas are made and therefore that $2500 could not possibly be enough to spend for a quality sofa.
Here's one for ya!
I, a dumdum, was all set to go shopping for an actually nice sofa or sectional. Then I had a real "Oh, right, the murders" moment and remembered that puppies were going to eat whatever we got anyway, so cheerfully cheap it was.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:43 AM on March 15 [4 favorites]
Here's one for ya!
I, a dumdum, was all set to go shopping for an actually nice sofa or sectional. Then I had a real "Oh, right, the murders" moment and remembered that puppies were going to eat whatever we got anyway, so cheerfully cheap it was.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:43 AM on March 15 [4 favorites]
i'm sure there's a larger metaphor in there somewhere, if you dig under the cushions.
posted by graywyvern at 6:47 AM on March 15
posted by graywyvern at 6:47 AM on March 15
I got a Joybird Hughes sofa 3 years ago, and it still looks and feels new.
We got a pair of Joybird couches during the pandemic and I hate them. Big regrets. Very uncomfortable. Cushions felt really hard and then proceeded to compress and mishape very quickly. The fabric is very weak and there are spots where it has pilled badly. Our cat threw up on one and it simply could not be cleaned.
Also design wise you can only flip the cushions lengthwise but not widthwise because of a weird back cushion corner design.
You can order new cushions but only if you still have your original invoice otherwise they refuse to sell to you which is deeply weird.
posted by srboisvert at 7:03 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
We got a pair of Joybird couches during the pandemic and I hate them. Big regrets. Very uncomfortable. Cushions felt really hard and then proceeded to compress and mishape very quickly. The fabric is very weak and there are spots where it has pilled badly. Our cat threw up on one and it simply could not be cleaned.
Also design wise you can only flip the cushions lengthwise but not widthwise because of a weird back cushion corner design.
You can order new cushions but only if you still have your original invoice otherwise they refuse to sell to you which is deeply weird.
posted by srboisvert at 7:03 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
The decline in furniture quality really hit around 2011. Which would be the tail end of the GFC. This is also the point where the quality of many other good started sliding. Companies such as Pottery Barn and West Elm and, yes, Design Within Reach are all cutting corners to make production even cheaper.
We got a three-year-old DWR dining room set off Buy Nothing. I was shocked that it was being given away...until we saw it. The top is made of MDF with veneer, not solid wood - and the veneer wasn't even good veneer, it was crappy veneer. It is a $4000 table and it's made of MDF. I went on the DWR site and the reviews were SCATHING. Reviewer after reviewer complained that the tabletop got deep gouges with minimal, normal use, which based on what we saw seems accurate. (The funny thing is, now when I go to the DWR site, all of the sub-4 star reviews have been deleted. It used to have over 50 reviews, now it has just 10.) My partner uses it as a work table in his wood shop because it's sturdy but the top is thrashed and irreparable. Most of the bent-wood chairs were in similar condition.
The funniest part of it all, though, was that there were two Eames repro plastic armchairs in the mix, which the gifter semi-apologized for, saying that the legs were broken and she didn't think they could be fixed. The legs were fine; they were just missing some screws that held them to the bucket chairs. Two screws and some cleaner to wipe the grubby fingerprints off, and now we have some great chairs in mint condition.
We now have a cherrywood dining room table that I got in a downsizing sale. I paid $18. It's made by a company out of Ontario. New, it cost half of what the Design Within Reach table does, and it's something like ten times the quality. The design isn't even that different. And it's still being sold. So high quality furniture is out there, but maybe not from a megacorp.
posted by rednikki at 7:06 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
We got a three-year-old DWR dining room set off Buy Nothing. I was shocked that it was being given away...until we saw it. The top is made of MDF with veneer, not solid wood - and the veneer wasn't even good veneer, it was crappy veneer. It is a $4000 table and it's made of MDF. I went on the DWR site and the reviews were SCATHING. Reviewer after reviewer complained that the tabletop got deep gouges with minimal, normal use, which based on what we saw seems accurate. (The funny thing is, now when I go to the DWR site, all of the sub-4 star reviews have been deleted. It used to have over 50 reviews, now it has just 10.) My partner uses it as a work table in his wood shop because it's sturdy but the top is thrashed and irreparable. Most of the bent-wood chairs were in similar condition.
The funniest part of it all, though, was that there were two Eames repro plastic armchairs in the mix, which the gifter semi-apologized for, saying that the legs were broken and she didn't think they could be fixed. The legs were fine; they were just missing some screws that held them to the bucket chairs. Two screws and some cleaner to wipe the grubby fingerprints off, and now we have some great chairs in mint condition.
We now have a cherrywood dining room table that I got in a downsizing sale. I paid $18. It's made by a company out of Ontario. New, it cost half of what the Design Within Reach table does, and it's something like ten times the quality. The design isn't even that different. And it's still being sold. So high quality furniture is out there, but maybe not from a megacorp.
posted by rednikki at 7:06 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
Previously on Metafilter: Why does this one couch from West Elm suck so much?.
posted by adamrice at 7:07 AM on March 15 [2 favorites]
posted by adamrice at 7:07 AM on March 15 [2 favorites]
I have a 12 year old Rowe sectional, bought moderately expensively (about $2500 during a 50% off sale) and shipped from North Carolina for a very large shipping charge and it is and always has been a total piece of crap.
Now maybe I chose the upholstery badly, but then shouldn't I have been warned that the upholstery was a bad choice? Should they have even offered such a bad upholstery fabric?
And while I may have chosen the upholstery badly, I did not choose to have them install a sectional joining bracket that does not and never has actually worked.
I thought I was doing the grown-up thing when I bought this sofa instead of an $800 special from the big box furniture store and still got hosed. I'd like to replace it, but with what?
posted by jacquilynne at 7:07 AM on March 15 [5 favorites]
Now maybe I chose the upholstery badly, but then shouldn't I have been warned that the upholstery was a bad choice? Should they have even offered such a bad upholstery fabric?
And while I may have chosen the upholstery badly, I did not choose to have them install a sectional joining bracket that does not and never has actually worked.
I thought I was doing the grown-up thing when I bought this sofa instead of an $800 special from the big box furniture store and still got hosed. I'd like to replace it, but with what?
posted by jacquilynne at 7:07 AM on March 15 [5 favorites]
As with everything else these days, it seems, people are not prepared to invest in quality furniture that's going to last them half a lifetime - they'd rather buy something cheap and shitty, then sell it and get a shiny new one when it inevitably falls apart.
I need to buy a new sofa soon, and it isn't like Company A is honest that their sofas are made out of sawdust while Company B offers a 30 year guarantee. They all use similar photos and descriptions, with a few hints here and there like "hardwood frame" or whatever. The market is opaque, just like for buying mattresses, and there isn't a direct link between price and quality. The really good stuff is expensive, sure, but so is a lot of cruddy stuff (like in the anecdote about the DWR table just above).
posted by Dip Flash at 7:12 AM on March 15 [18 favorites]
I need to buy a new sofa soon, and it isn't like Company A is honest that their sofas are made out of sawdust while Company B offers a 30 year guarantee. They all use similar photos and descriptions, with a few hints here and there like "hardwood frame" or whatever. The market is opaque, just like for buying mattresses, and there isn't a direct link between price and quality. The really good stuff is expensive, sure, but so is a lot of cruddy stuff (like in the anecdote about the DWR table just above).
posted by Dip Flash at 7:12 AM on March 15 [18 favorites]
Reviewer after reviewer complained that the tabletop got deep gouges with minimal, normal use, which based on what we saw seems accurate. (The funny thing is, now when I go to the DWR site, all of the sub-4 star reviews have been deleted. It used to have over 50 reviews, now it has just 10.)
I know every company does this now, and it’s a big part of this problem. If you can’t actually trust reviews of a product, how do you tell something is a quality product, sight unseen? What I want to know is, doesn’t deleting negative reviews constitute false advertising? It seems like there could be an opportunity for a class action or something. This is probably just wishful thinking on my part, desperately hoping for something to counteract the enshittification death spiral affecting seemingly everything these days.
posted by bluloo at 7:41 AM on March 15 [9 favorites]
I know every company does this now, and it’s a big part of this problem. If you can’t actually trust reviews of a product, how do you tell something is a quality product, sight unseen? What I want to know is, doesn’t deleting negative reviews constitute false advertising? It seems like there could be an opportunity for a class action or something. This is probably just wishful thinking on my part, desperately hoping for something to counteract the enshittification death spiral affecting seemingly everything these days.
posted by bluloo at 7:41 AM on March 15 [9 favorites]
Somewhat bizarre thread, but as others have commented I guess expected. West Elm imo has some great stuff, I have two that are some of the best / most solid pieces of furniture I own. Though I don't think their strength is really upholstery. But, I have one upholstered chair from them, and while it's not as comfortable as I wanted, construction is solid and of high quality wood that is going to last for a very long time. The disdain here certainly doesn't match up with my actual experience. (Basically ime the best west elm furniture is very comparable to the best Room & Board stuff, but where the two companies have different strengths; in addition west elm can be *great* for certain kinds of mid-range non-furniture items.)
One thing I have wondered about this sort of discourse, is whether a big part of the problem is that these days so many people buy furniture without physically experiencing it. I actually did buy a (Room & Board) couch sight unseen during the pandemic, but at that point I had directly encountered and rejected a bunch of comparably priced stuff, which I might not have just looking at it online
If any company mentioned in this thread deserves some serious disdain, it's design with reach.
posted by advil at 7:44 AM on March 15
One thing I have wondered about this sort of discourse, is whether a big part of the problem is that these days so many people buy furniture without physically experiencing it. I actually did buy a (Room & Board) couch sight unseen during the pandemic, but at that point I had directly encountered and rejected a bunch of comparably priced stuff, which I might not have just looking at it online
If any company mentioned in this thread deserves some serious disdain, it's design with reach.
posted by advil at 7:44 AM on March 15
Furniture costs almost as much to move as it does to buy, and there's not much of a market for used upholstered stuff. So disposable is almost the plan, if you move a lot.
We bought a piece at a time as good things came up on sale, and most have been pretty durable. We need a new two-seater couch and we are dreading the shopping experience. Gotta be catproof. Thanks everyone for suggestions.
Don't get me started on appliances. We bought 5 new major appliances (mid-priced models of good brands) about 14 years ago. Every one had some silly cost-cutting measure that caused early failures (eg substandard connectors, yellowing/cracking plastic, one case of insane electronic design choices). The washer died (error codes, uneconomic to replace two $300 circuit boards) and has been replaced; the others I've repaired myself or we live with the flaws - eg the dryer is no longer automatic, we can only set heat and timer. A toaster-oven just died because of insufficiently heavy pc board traces and connectors, burning up the board in spots. Really dumb stuff, when you can find 50+ yr old toasters in yard sales that are still working.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:50 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
We bought a piece at a time as good things came up on sale, and most have been pretty durable. We need a new two-seater couch and we are dreading the shopping experience. Gotta be catproof. Thanks everyone for suggestions.
Don't get me started on appliances. We bought 5 new major appliances (mid-priced models of good brands) about 14 years ago. Every one had some silly cost-cutting measure that caused early failures (eg substandard connectors, yellowing/cracking plastic, one case of insane electronic design choices). The washer died (error codes, uneconomic to replace two $300 circuit boards) and has been replaced; the others I've repaired myself or we live with the flaws - eg the dryer is no longer automatic, we can only set heat and timer. A toaster-oven just died because of insufficiently heavy pc board traces and connectors, burning up the board in spots. Really dumb stuff, when you can find 50+ yr old toasters in yard sales that are still working.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:50 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
they'd rather buy something cheap and shitty,
Nah this is a Vimes Boots problem.
posted by bq at 7:55 AM on March 15 [16 favorites]
Nah this is a Vimes Boots problem.
posted by bq at 7:55 AM on March 15 [16 favorites]
This is why I go with the cheap $500 Wayfair sofa. Because I know that even though it's worse quality than the $1200 sofa from a better brand, it's not even that much worse relative to the difference in cost.
But also, there are weird, unfortunate ways that the shoddy construction of furniture today is advantageous. Most people rent apartments and move around a lot these days. Older, quality furniture tends to be very heavy and non-modular, while cheap furniture is both light and can often be disassembled.
My parents had this beautiful, sturdy sofa from the 90s that they offered to give me but I ended up not taking it from them because I live in a third-floor apartment with a tiny narrow stairwell. The logistics of getting this massive heavy thing it into my apartment (and likely getting it down again a year later when my landlord raises rent and I have to move again) didn't seem worth it. So I ended up with the $500 Wayfair sofa that weighs like cotton candy and comes apart into six pieces that can easily be hauled up the narrow stairwell.
posted by adso at 7:55 AM on March 15 [7 favorites]
But also, there are weird, unfortunate ways that the shoddy construction of furniture today is advantageous. Most people rent apartments and move around a lot these days. Older, quality furniture tends to be very heavy and non-modular, while cheap furniture is both light and can often be disassembled.
My parents had this beautiful, sturdy sofa from the 90s that they offered to give me but I ended up not taking it from them because I live in a third-floor apartment with a tiny narrow stairwell. The logistics of getting this massive heavy thing it into my apartment (and likely getting it down again a year later when my landlord raises rent and I have to move again) didn't seem worth it. So I ended up with the $500 Wayfair sofa that weighs like cotton candy and comes apart into six pieces that can easily be hauled up the narrow stairwell.
posted by adso at 7:55 AM on March 15 [7 favorites]
YT videos from Sailrite
Hey I think those are the videos that showed me how to mend a leather seam!
posted by bq at 7:57 AM on March 15 [2 favorites]
Hey I think those are the videos that showed me how to mend a leather seam!
posted by bq at 7:57 AM on March 15 [2 favorites]
So 30 years ago we got talked into buying furniture from a very high-end place called Roche Bubois as part of a home reno and restyle. It was probably a bad financial decision at the time but you know what? 30 years later it is still here and it actually looks pretty good. The leather was beautiful until my daughter's kitten got its claws in it. But the breakdown of the pillows has long stayed just at that perfect stage for taking a long afternoon nap or settling in for a long read. However, the cushions are somewhat oddly shaped and heavier friends are starting to have issues getting rising out so I think I'm going to make it a goal over the next few months to find some place local that can refurb the leather and make new cushions and then I'll settle in for another long 25-year nap. But it sounds like I'll need to budget another five figures for this.
posted by beaning at 8:08 AM on March 15 [4 favorites]
posted by beaning at 8:08 AM on March 15 [4 favorites]
My grandmother’s horsehair furniture has gone to 2 of her children and been reupholstered twice. There are only 5 grandkids and 3 with large enough housing so I’ve got a pretty good chance.
I’m ‘lucky’ I guess - 20 years ago we bought a bed online that (literally) collapsed the first night we slept on it. Since then I’ve refused to buy any furniture without seeing it in person.
On the other hand I’ve been perfectly happy with a lot of my ikea stuff which is by and large bulletproof.
posted by bq at 8:09 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
I’m ‘lucky’ I guess - 20 years ago we bought a bed online that (literally) collapsed the first night we slept on it. Since then I’ve refused to buy any furniture without seeing it in person.
On the other hand I’ve been perfectly happy with a lot of my ikea stuff which is by and large bulletproof.
posted by bq at 8:09 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
When people report that their cheap furniture has lasted beautifully for them, I assume that they are small and light.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:12 AM on March 15 [7 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:12 AM on March 15 [7 favorites]
Nah this is a Vimes Boots problem.
Except it feels like that theory doesn't hold up anymore. Like, that's the whole point of at least this thread if not exactly the original article - people are paying what they think is a lot of money for a couch, often from a previously or purportedly reputable brand, and are not getting the quality and life expectancy that justifies the additional expense.
posted by misskaz at 8:13 AM on March 15 [21 favorites]
Except it feels like that theory doesn't hold up anymore. Like, that's the whole point of at least this thread if not exactly the original article - people are paying what they think is a lot of money for a couch, often from a previously or purportedly reputable brand, and are not getting the quality and life expectancy that justifies the additional expense.
posted by misskaz at 8:13 AM on March 15 [21 favorites]
Methinks it's the definition of "a lot of money" that is incongruent with current wages & inflation in the USA.
posted by djseafood at 8:17 AM on March 15 [7 favorites]
posted by djseafood at 8:17 AM on March 15 [7 favorites]
checking Le Inflation Calendar - $2000 in 1985 is $5768 today.
Both sound like a significant amount of money and more than I've ever spent on a single piece of furniture.
posted by djseafood at 8:21 AM on March 15 [6 favorites]
Both sound like a significant amount of money and more than I've ever spent on a single piece of furniture.
posted by djseafood at 8:21 AM on March 15 [6 favorites]
I just had a memory pop up...my wife and I were in a furniture store in the mid-80s and saw an absolutely amazing couch. It was huge, had big poofy cushions, wide comfortable arms, built-in recliner feature at either end, just made for lounging; and best of all, it was covered it bright turquoise leather! Sitting in it was like relaxing in butter. It was almost $5000 at the time which was way out of our budget, and probably wouldn't have even fit into our small living room, but boy it was a hell of a thing. No idea how well-built it was though.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:32 AM on March 15
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:32 AM on March 15
I think this article makes way too many generalities, as someone actually alive back then and vaguely (I was a kid) remembers the furniture buying process.
Of course this is anecdotal, and my family was rural and not of the Dwell buying set, but people I knew put plywood under their cushions to protect from busted bases, they moved couches from the 'no kids/no pets' room to the living room to the basement, or onto the covered porch if they didn't have a basement, so they generally kept them for a long time as they filtered down.
Plenty of people kept their couches in the plastic bags they shipped in so they wouldn't be damaged. Do people even still do that?
Sitcoms also regularly featured comical situations of people addressing the quality of furnishings; off the top of my head it was discussed on The Simpsons, Seinfeld (Elaine injured her back on a lousy sleeper sofa), and Friends.
Also, you can buy older sofas at places like Habitat for Humanity, but the patterns are horrifically dated and the quality of the sitting surfaces degraded, and that's stuff they found worthy of the shop floor. Yikes!
Also, the assumption here is regular use is causing degradation, but pet accidents (and people) use of the couch as trampoline and fort by children and other activities have beaten up and shortened the life of sofas for a really long time. It goes back to the idea that there were sofas kids and pets couldn't even get near, and that's the stuff that's still around today.
Also the anecdote about the re-upholsterer at the beginning goes unanswered - no discussion of materials costs per yard or anything. A quick looks at Williams Sanoma (certainly not the cheapest) says a middle cost for couch fabric is $50 a yard and requires around 20 yards. $1000 for the fabric. The foam stuff is less expensive. So it's mostly the labor rates for a custom upholstery job if it is truly 3X+ the cost of a $1000 couch. So maybe having so many different manufacturers and a big lack of standardization is another thing that led to the demise of the repair of couches.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:32 AM on March 15 [4 favorites]
Of course this is anecdotal, and my family was rural and not of the Dwell buying set, but people I knew put plywood under their cushions to protect from busted bases, they moved couches from the 'no kids/no pets' room to the living room to the basement, or onto the covered porch if they didn't have a basement, so they generally kept them for a long time as they filtered down.
Plenty of people kept their couches in the plastic bags they shipped in so they wouldn't be damaged. Do people even still do that?
Sitcoms also regularly featured comical situations of people addressing the quality of furnishings; off the top of my head it was discussed on The Simpsons, Seinfeld (Elaine injured her back on a lousy sleeper sofa), and Friends.
Also, you can buy older sofas at places like Habitat for Humanity, but the patterns are horrifically dated and the quality of the sitting surfaces degraded, and that's stuff they found worthy of the shop floor. Yikes!
Also, the assumption here is regular use is causing degradation, but pet accidents (and people) use of the couch as trampoline and fort by children and other activities have beaten up and shortened the life of sofas for a really long time. It goes back to the idea that there were sofas kids and pets couldn't even get near, and that's the stuff that's still around today.
Also the anecdote about the re-upholsterer at the beginning goes unanswered - no discussion of materials costs per yard or anything. A quick looks at Williams Sanoma (certainly not the cheapest) says a middle cost for couch fabric is $50 a yard and requires around 20 yards. $1000 for the fabric. The foam stuff is less expensive. So it's mostly the labor rates for a custom upholstery job if it is truly 3X+ the cost of a $1000 couch. So maybe having so many different manufacturers and a big lack of standardization is another thing that led to the demise of the repair of couches.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:32 AM on March 15 [4 favorites]
MetaFilter: a pair of woodpeckers high on fermented mulberries… dive-bombing everything in the living room with indelible purple mulberry scat.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:37 AM on March 15 [8 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:37 AM on March 15 [8 favorites]
Welp, this has convinced me I somehow lucked into buying a good couch for $600, 18 years ago. A few hours from High Point NC probably helped. The only thing wrong with it that a slipover cover didn't fix, is the recliner footrest on one side has lost most of the padding. I guess I'll end up trying to fix it myself.
posted by joeyh at 8:51 AM on March 15
posted by joeyh at 8:51 AM on March 15
1200 sofa is crap because you have to spend 10x to have those features.
I bought a MTO suit from an online (and now brick and mortar) MTO menswear manufacturer. The way it works, you get measured and they build the suit and then you get a round go of free alterations to make up for variations of your body type and the suit’s cut.
Next suit you buy, no measurements. They work off of the last alterations. Well, on the third suit the powers had changed the conversation model. The vest (3-piece, of course) was way off.
I took it to my tailor, and they altered it. And in the most polite way imaginable, they explained that while the fabric quality was excellent, the hem was crap—there was very little extra fabric.
Same issue. They want you to just buy a new suit, rather than continue to alter the original.
posted by xtian at 8:54 AM on March 15
I bought a MTO suit from an online (and now brick and mortar) MTO menswear manufacturer. The way it works, you get measured and they build the suit and then you get a round go of free alterations to make up for variations of your body type and the suit’s cut.
Next suit you buy, no measurements. They work off of the last alterations. Well, on the third suit the powers had changed the conversation model. The vest (3-piece, of course) was way off.
I took it to my tailor, and they altered it. And in the most polite way imaginable, they explained that while the fabric quality was excellent, the hem was crap—there was very little extra fabric.
Same issue. They want you to just buy a new suit, rather than continue to alter the original.
posted by xtian at 8:54 AM on March 15
it isn't like Company A is honest that their sofas are made out of sawdust while Company B offers a 30 year guarantee. They all use similar photos and descriptions, with a few hints here and there like "hardwood frame" or whatever.
This. I’ve actually been musing an Ask on this for a while: I’m willing to spend money on an expensive couch that will last 30 years, but how can I tell which is that one when couches that will fail in 5 years are also being sold at those price points?
posted by corb at 9:02 AM on March 15 [6 favorites]
This. I’ve actually been musing an Ask on this for a while: I’m willing to spend money on an expensive couch that will last 30 years, but how can I tell which is that one when couches that will fail in 5 years are also being sold at those price points?
posted by corb at 9:02 AM on March 15 [6 favorites]
Except it feels like that theory doesn't hold up anymore. Like, that's the whole point of at least this thread if not exactly the original article - people are paying what they think is a lot of money for a couch, often from a previously or purportedly reputable brand, and are not getting the quality and life expectancy that justifies the additional expense.
I have seen this take on the Vimes Boots Theory; it has stopped really applying to high end goods. The name of the game is conspicuous consumption. If you pay 4 digits for a couch, you should be getting a high quality couch that you might be able to pass on as a family heirloom if you are inclined. It should be well-made, take on the wear and tear of living.
I can think of a few brands that have relied on being extremely durable no longer being so. When I went shopping to get a brand new pair of Doc Martens a couple of years ago, I came across so many reviews of how the boots just aren't made as well as they were. (F'rex, people comparing Docs they bought and still have in the 80s as compared to ones bought in '10s.) I still ended up buying a pair anyway and will do my best to keep them long-lived, but I am not surprised that high prices no longer mean good quality.
Capitalism needs us to keep buying stuff to replace stuff we shouldn't have to replace. A poster said somewhere above that it used to be you could have washer and dryers that would survive so much use. Not anymore! If something breaks, you are encouraged to buy something new instead of repairing. It's infuriating.
posted by Kitteh at 9:13 AM on March 15 [5 favorites]
I have seen this take on the Vimes Boots Theory; it has stopped really applying to high end goods. The name of the game is conspicuous consumption. If you pay 4 digits for a couch, you should be getting a high quality couch that you might be able to pass on as a family heirloom if you are inclined. It should be well-made, take on the wear and tear of living.
I can think of a few brands that have relied on being extremely durable no longer being so. When I went shopping to get a brand new pair of Doc Martens a couple of years ago, I came across so many reviews of how the boots just aren't made as well as they were. (F'rex, people comparing Docs they bought and still have in the 80s as compared to ones bought in '10s.) I still ended up buying a pair anyway and will do my best to keep them long-lived, but I am not surprised that high prices no longer mean good quality.
Capitalism needs us to keep buying stuff to replace stuff we shouldn't have to replace. A poster said somewhere above that it used to be you could have washer and dryers that would survive so much use. Not anymore! If something breaks, you are encouraged to buy something new instead of repairing. It's infuriating.
posted by Kitteh at 9:13 AM on March 15 [5 favorites]
Here's a podcast (with transcript) about the diminishing state of new D2C furniture:
what manufacturers came up with in, really in like the early 90s, is this bonded leather, which is like little pieces of leather.posted by spamandkimchi at 9:31 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
that's made in giant sheets I mean they literally like squirt it out it's like this adhesive in leather and they like squirt it out in these giant sheets and then you can cut whatever shapes you want doesn't matter it's not as good quality as the kind of genuine leather is it just that it you know cracks after a year or two of wear is it what's up it off gasses. It's super flammable, it cracks, it peels.
Higher quality bonded leather can like maybe feel a little bit more luxurious, but for the most part it feels kind of like exactly what it is, which is like leather mixed with adhesive bondings, you know.
And I think in furniture development and in bonded leather development, there's always like... They're always striving to get something that feels more natural, that feels more, you know, grainy, the way leather would.
But it's basically just a giant plastic sheet that's embossed with like a cow type of print to look like leather.
We are big fans of Cisco sofas. They are expensive but they have held up to a ton of wear and I like the quality of their cushions (wool and latex with jute webbing). However, it took us close to a year to get our sofa after we ordered it.
Keep in mind that you have to pay for the labor and materials - you don't get something for nothing. With inflation, it is steadily pushing the prices of durable goods up. I am loathe to upgrade my appliances because I have noticed the construction is becoming more and more substandard even for luxury lines.
posted by ichimunki at 9:35 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
Keep in mind that you have to pay for the labor and materials - you don't get something for nothing. With inflation, it is steadily pushing the prices of durable goods up. I am loathe to upgrade my appliances because I have noticed the construction is becoming more and more substandard even for luxury lines.
posted by ichimunki at 9:35 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the Revised Vimes Boots Theory is killing me (also see: whatever has replaced "If you're not paying for the product, you are the product" - might have been true 25 years ago, but now you're the product no matter how much you pay). We've saved up to buy a four-figure couch! I'm happy to dig through dozens of websites and a hundred reviews! I'll spend my weekends traveling to every neigboring county to check out floor models! But none if it matters because there's no way to tell what's trash (almost everything) and what will last (almost nothing).
I use to be a big thrifter, and I see a lot of folks here talking about the great deal they found 10-15+ years ago. And it's true, you could find all kinds of great stuff for cheap, but the game has changed.
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 9:37 AM on March 15 [9 favorites]
I use to be a big thrifter, and I see a lot of folks here talking about the great deal they found 10-15+ years ago. And it's true, you could find all kinds of great stuff for cheap, but the game has changed.
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 9:37 AM on March 15 [9 favorites]
The IKEA FREIHTEN used to be excellent, then it went to shit for the same price, now it’s suddenly 20% more expensive and I wonder if the quality came back.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:51 AM on March 15
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:51 AM on March 15
I have two couches that have been named by friends as the "Beetlejuice Couches" given the dark green, lime green vertical striping. These are at least 37 years old now and came over from Birmingham in the UK. I really need to stuff the pillows again, the memory foam suggestion up top sounds like just the thing.
Was initially going to replace them but ran into the all of the above issues and the "Perpetually Going Out Of Business/Same storefront new furniture store name" companies in the DC area that give off really, really bad vibes all around in addition to the furniture just being very cheap?
Now I do want to find a good arm chair and I feel like that's going to be a long, long time in the finding.
Also, does anyone knows where to find armchairs/dining room chairs that are like, 2-3 inches taller than normal?
posted by Slackermagee at 9:53 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
Was initially going to replace them but ran into the all of the above issues and the "Perpetually Going Out Of Business/Same storefront new furniture store name" companies in the DC area that give off really, really bad vibes all around in addition to the furniture just being very cheap?
Now I do want to find a good arm chair and I feel like that's going to be a long, long time in the finding.
Also, does anyone knows where to find armchairs/dining room chairs that are like, 2-3 inches taller than normal?
posted by Slackermagee at 9:53 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
70 comments and i'm surprised noone mentions bugs - i would love to trust secondhand furniture from the street or habitat but i can't get over my fear of introducing some unknown critter that will come with it
posted by msiebler at 9:55 AM on March 15 [16 favorites]
posted by msiebler at 9:55 AM on March 15 [16 favorites]
I will say that our new-ish (2021 purchase) couch from Article is still kicking as a v.good buy. Large comfy and light enough to move if need be and hefty enough not to move when you sit down briskly.
we go fabric over leather with no regrets. Also no cats, kids, smoking, adult owned...ect.
posted by djseafood at 10:23 AM on March 15
we go fabric over leather with no regrets. Also no cats, kids, smoking, adult owned...ect.
posted by djseafood at 10:23 AM on March 15
msiebler, stripping furniture down to the frame and turpentining it all over is the pre-WWII solution to that. There's a Holmes story in which all the clues left by someone are lost because the tweeny is doing that to all the furniture in the boardinghouse room, as is then normal between tenants.
The Before Times when there was sturdy furniture also had so much extra work and care to keep it, because it was expensive to them, as The_Vegetables points out. Letting the kids and dogs jump on the upholstered furniture was an enormous postwar extravagance, as horrifying as rolling coal for people who didn't think of furniture as cheap.
One of the ways you knew your furniture and appliances were good is that you went to a local-ish store that lost valuable reputation if they sold you a lemon. *They* had experts who went to the showrooms and were picky about construction details and kept the manufacturers in line. But it's cheaper not to have those middlemen, so now we don't. (If there's a still a store near you like this... I have found it worthwhile to put up with limited selection, ours has never sold us a lemon.)
I'm trying to figure out what the "real, appropriate" price of a good sofa should be. High enough that we keep them long enough that the tight-grain hardwood in them can regrow, at minimum. Therefore, fifty expected years use of the frame, at least? Maybe eighty years. That is not a cheap sofa, but anything less is just stripmining forests.
posted by clew at 10:24 AM on March 15 [13 favorites]
The Before Times when there was sturdy furniture also had so much extra work and care to keep it, because it was expensive to them, as The_Vegetables points out. Letting the kids and dogs jump on the upholstered furniture was an enormous postwar extravagance, as horrifying as rolling coal for people who didn't think of furniture as cheap.
One of the ways you knew your furniture and appliances were good is that you went to a local-ish store that lost valuable reputation if they sold you a lemon. *They* had experts who went to the showrooms and were picky about construction details and kept the manufacturers in line. But it's cheaper not to have those middlemen, so now we don't. (If there's a still a store near you like this... I have found it worthwhile to put up with limited selection, ours has never sold us a lemon.)
I'm trying to figure out what the "real, appropriate" price of a good sofa should be. High enough that we keep them long enough that the tight-grain hardwood in them can regrow, at minimum. Therefore, fifty expected years use of the frame, at least? Maybe eighty years. That is not a cheap sofa, but anything less is just stripmining forests.
posted by clew at 10:24 AM on March 15 [13 favorites]
We spent ~$5000 on our Mitchell Gold sofa about 20 years ago. And that was with my wife's trade discount! It is still in near-perfect condition. None of the suspension has given out, even the cushions are still firm and have retained their shape. Part of the high cost was good quality wool upholstery. High quality upholstery material means a lot. We usually keep a cotton bedspread on it to reduce wear and tear and sweatiness in the summer which I think has helped a lot. We had 13 years of cats with the thing (cats are gone, RIP) but no kids... which also helps a great deal. But with furniture: you get what you pay for.
I'm fortunate that we could afford such an item. But investing up front does mostly work out when it comes to furniture. I imagine we will get at least another 20+ years out of the thing, assuming no tragic accidents. So $5000 one time in... a lot... of years worked out well. I'm 53 and there's a good chance that I never see that sofa replaced in my lifetime.
Unfortunately Mitchell Gold very recently went out of business... they made extremely good stuff. My wife is a professional interior designer for hotels, restaurants, etc and she knows her stuff, so that was a huge factor too.
posted by SoberHighland at 10:24 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
I'm fortunate that we could afford such an item. But investing up front does mostly work out when it comes to furniture. I imagine we will get at least another 20+ years out of the thing, assuming no tragic accidents. So $5000 one time in... a lot... of years worked out well. I'm 53 and there's a good chance that I never see that sofa replaced in my lifetime.
Unfortunately Mitchell Gold very recently went out of business... they made extremely good stuff. My wife is a professional interior designer for hotels, restaurants, etc and she knows her stuff, so that was a huge factor too.
posted by SoberHighland at 10:24 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
I've needed a new couch for a while, and a few months ago I finally decided to buy one. I tried looking at new, but gave up quickly after realizing how much it would cost and what a dice roll it was going to be.
In what turned out to be a remarkable stroke of luck I found a used couch on Craigslist for a few hundred bucks, right in my neighborhood. I checked it out and it was sturdy and cozy, so I bought it. And the owner was nice enough to bring it back to my place in his truck.
I knew I was risking bedbugs, and I have a horror of them after watching friends go through hell with the critters a few years back, so I asked the owner about whether he'd ever had a problem with them. And his answer reassured me completely.
"No," he said, "I've never had bedbugs. And even if I had, the covers come right off the cushions, you can wash them, it'd be no problem."
He said this with the innocent, almost insouciant air of someone who never had to deal with bedbugs once in his life. Not a flash of horror in his eyes. I brought the couch inside without a second thought, and have enjoyed lounging on it ever since.
posted by MrVisible at 10:27 AM on March 15 [13 favorites]
In what turned out to be a remarkable stroke of luck I found a used couch on Craigslist for a few hundred bucks, right in my neighborhood. I checked it out and it was sturdy and cozy, so I bought it. And the owner was nice enough to bring it back to my place in his truck.
I knew I was risking bedbugs, and I have a horror of them after watching friends go through hell with the critters a few years back, so I asked the owner about whether he'd ever had a problem with them. And his answer reassured me completely.
"No," he said, "I've never had bedbugs. And even if I had, the covers come right off the cushions, you can wash them, it'd be no problem."
He said this with the innocent, almost insouciant air of someone who never had to deal with bedbugs once in his life. Not a flash of horror in his eyes. I brought the couch inside without a second thought, and have enjoyed lounging on it ever since.
posted by MrVisible at 10:27 AM on March 15 [13 favorites]
I too have a decent couch that I bought 19 years ago, at the Sears outlet store for $750 bucks for actual leather, and the article kind of points that out - if you bought 20 years ago, you can't really say "paying more means great quality" because you were buying at a completely different time. I mean, I didn't pay a whole lot for mine but it's lasted really well.
It is now getting wrecked, but that is due to our pets.
Mitchell Gold very recently went out of business.
Exactly.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:45 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
It is now getting wrecked, but that is due to our pets.
Mitchell Gold very recently went out of business.
Exactly.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:45 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
Is this the part where we brag about our vintage furniture scores? A relatively MCM house recently hit the market in my town, and the furniture all looked amazing. I asked the realtor if the furniture was going with the house, and if not, if the seller would be interested in selling some of it. Ends up the seller was a friend of the deceased owner, and wanted it all gone at a very reasonable price. Maybe 5 of the sofas people talk about in this thread.
We just liked how it looked, and agreed without really digging into the stuff. Ends up the original owner more or less took the 1958 Sophisticate by Tomlinson catalog to the furniture dealer and said “yes, please”.
From that collection we got:
- 2 sofas, one with a very elegant 150 deg. angle in the cushion
- 2 club chairs and 2 swivel end chairs
- 3 full size chests of bedroom drawers and a buffet
- a “surfboard” parquet coffee table
- 2 living room side tables and 2 bedroom side tables
- expandable dining table with 4 chairs
In addition to the Tomlinson stuff, there was a rattan Heywood Wakefield sofa and armchair, a designer wrought iron stand-up bar with matching stools, and an entire truckload of ottomans and lamps. and a 1950-something Pillsbury contest prize globe and stand still in its box.
The HW rattan pieces alone are probably worth half of what we paid for the lot.
A lot of the upholstery does need redone, but those bones should be strong enough to take it.
posted by Huggiesbear at 11:39 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
We just liked how it looked, and agreed without really digging into the stuff. Ends up the original owner more or less took the 1958 Sophisticate by Tomlinson catalog to the furniture dealer and said “yes, please”.
From that collection we got:
- 2 sofas, one with a very elegant 150 deg. angle in the cushion
- 2 club chairs and 2 swivel end chairs
- 3 full size chests of bedroom drawers and a buffet
- a “surfboard” parquet coffee table
- 2 living room side tables and 2 bedroom side tables
- expandable dining table with 4 chairs
In addition to the Tomlinson stuff, there was a rattan Heywood Wakefield sofa and armchair, a designer wrought iron stand-up bar with matching stools, and an entire truckload of ottomans and lamps. and a 1950-something Pillsbury contest prize globe and stand still in its box.
The HW rattan pieces alone are probably worth half of what we paid for the lot.
A lot of the upholstery does need redone, but those bones should be strong enough to take it.
posted by Huggiesbear at 11:39 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
now both our living room and family room are furnished with LoveSac sectionals, aka "LEGO furniture". Expensive, but 1/2 the set is over 12 years old and still like new and they offer free financing.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 8:03 AM on March 15
My husband and I got a LoveSac sectional in 2013 or so and it's holding up very well, with the original covers (notably, we have neither pets nor children). I'd recommend them to anybody who finds them comfortable. I'm moving home to Nova Scotia, leaving both the furniture and the husband in the States, and I won't be getting LoveSac again because to me they are too roomy/expansive. I'm 5'2" and they are very much built more for my 6'3" husband's size than mine. I anticipate doing a bunch of thrifting to get replacement furniture, but will be rereading this thread for ideas when the time comes. I suspect there's probably a local company run by a small family in like Pictou or Church Point or something so I'll ask around.
posted by joannemerriam at 11:40 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 8:03 AM on March 15
My husband and I got a LoveSac sectional in 2013 or so and it's holding up very well, with the original covers (notably, we have neither pets nor children). I'd recommend them to anybody who finds them comfortable. I'm moving home to Nova Scotia, leaving both the furniture and the husband in the States, and I won't be getting LoveSac again because to me they are too roomy/expansive. I'm 5'2" and they are very much built more for my 6'3" husband's size than mine. I anticipate doing a bunch of thrifting to get replacement furniture, but will be rereading this thread for ideas when the time comes. I suspect there's probably a local company run by a small family in like Pictou or Church Point or something so I'll ask around.
posted by joannemerriam at 11:40 AM on March 15 [1 favorite]
We're in the middle of emptying my father-in-law's house of 30 years. Big house. Mother in-law passed away 3 years ago, and FiL is finally moving out and selling. It's a big-ass house, he's 86 and cannot be living alone anymore.
Anyway: big family. Some family members are taking some items and small keepsakes. But the sad truth is: charity places will not even accept most furniture. I'm talking about nice, but basic, stuff in clean, excellent condition. No one wants it. We were only able to donate a couple chairs and a small nightstand. These charity places—even places that straight-up GIVE furniture to furnish entire apartments for migrants, needy people and people who were incarcerated—cannot handle any more furniture. They have too much. And this is in suburban Chicago with many options... we called several places.
Our late-capitalism world means almost everything is junk. We will have to play for a hauler to remove some of this stuff and throw it in a dump somewhere. It's insane, but it's how we live.
posted by SoberHighland at 12:33 PM on March 15 [5 favorites]
Anyway: big family. Some family members are taking some items and small keepsakes. But the sad truth is: charity places will not even accept most furniture. I'm talking about nice, but basic, stuff in clean, excellent condition. No one wants it. We were only able to donate a couple chairs and a small nightstand. These charity places—even places that straight-up GIVE furniture to furnish entire apartments for migrants, needy people and people who were incarcerated—cannot handle any more furniture. They have too much. And this is in suburban Chicago with many options... we called several places.
Our late-capitalism world means almost everything is junk. We will have to play for a hauler to remove some of this stuff and throw it in a dump somewhere. It's insane, but it's how we live.
posted by SoberHighland at 12:33 PM on March 15 [5 favorites]
This Wayfair couch is garbage, and the somewhat matching armchair is also garbage, but I'm not terribly surprised at less than $400 for the both of them (a combo of sales, returns, etc.)
I'm not sure what the average age range of commenters in this thread is, but I've certainly felt like I've grown up in an era wherein everything has felt disposable, including big ticket items like furniture and cars. What I'm finding surprising isn't how shitty everything is, but that anybody ever expects otherwise.
Growing up, I would hear Reduce-Reuse-Recycle, but the only one really put into practice is recycle. How do we reduce and reuse when nothing is built for that?
posted by Pitachu at 12:39 PM on March 15 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure what the average age range of commenters in this thread is, but I've certainly felt like I've grown up in an era wherein everything has felt disposable, including big ticket items like furniture and cars. What I'm finding surprising isn't how shitty everything is, but that anybody ever expects otherwise.
Growing up, I would hear Reduce-Reuse-Recycle, but the only one really put into practice is recycle. How do we reduce and reuse when nothing is built for that?
posted by Pitachu at 12:39 PM on March 15 [5 favorites]
It’s true, it’s hard to get rid of stuff. I had to pay ten bucks to get rid of a working oven last month. It was old enough that Habitat for Humanity wouldn’t take it. It would have cost $25 to take it to the dump - and it would have killed me to put a working appliance in a landfill. Now it’s with a guy who will probably refurbish it and resell it to someone else looking for an oven to fit that specific weird narrow wall space.
posted by bq at 12:41 PM on March 15 [3 favorites]
posted by bq at 12:41 PM on March 15 [3 favorites]
I'm talking about nice, but basic, stuff in clean, excellent condition. No one wants it.
I suspect it’s more that they can’t afford to store it. There are lots of people that want used furniture, but nowhere can afford to store the furniture so people can come try it, or dispose of the furniture in the off chance it’s bad.
posted by corb at 1:04 PM on March 15 [3 favorites]
I suspect it’s more that they can’t afford to store it. There are lots of people that want used furniture, but nowhere can afford to store the furniture so people can come try it, or dispose of the furniture in the off chance it’s bad.
posted by corb at 1:04 PM on March 15 [3 favorites]
djseafood, I got that Article sofa in leather 5 years ago and it's held up well enough with kids and pets (although I've been terrible at actually taking care of the leather) but I am noticing now some play in the frame itself so will have to see how I can go about tightening things. I'm a bit worried that when I go take a closer look at it I'll see that it's just sawdust and glue as well.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:05 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:05 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
Dwell spent decades jollying this system along, right? Extremely specific style that hardly ever included hand me down furniture; national magazine, so ads from D2C chains were easier than ads from Your City Furniture Shop; “get the look for cheap” features?
posted by clew at 1:31 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
posted by clew at 1:31 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
This is why local Buy Nothing groups are so useful. Here in NYC, there are very busy Stooping pages on IG, where people post all manner of stuff left on the curb. Some really incredibly nice pieces!
But yes, to the broader point, cheap furniture is shite, and should be nuked from orbit.
On a personal note: When I move out of my apartment, it's going to be a PITArse to get rid of a very large set of barrister bookcases that were here when I bought the place. They are large and bolted together and when it's time, I will just want somebody to take them off my hands. Are they nice? Were they expensive? Yes and yes. But I'm not taking them to wherever I go next.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 1:35 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
But yes, to the broader point, cheap furniture is shite, and should be nuked from orbit.
On a personal note: When I move out of my apartment, it's going to be a PITArse to get rid of a very large set of barrister bookcases that were here when I bought the place. They are large and bolted together and when it's time, I will just want somebody to take them off my hands. Are they nice? Were they expensive? Yes and yes. But I'm not taking them to wherever I go next.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 1:35 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
Personally, I just use whatever shit somebody else in the building throws out. I kinda regret not grabbing the end tables that were next to the dumpster the other day, but too late now.
Seriously, I sit on a leather loveseat someone tossed because it was starting to get beat up. Three years later and the leather finally did split. Oh well, it still holds my ass off the ground, so it'll do fine until somebody else decides to discard perfectly usable furniture. I'd say that it was well worth the price of nearly getting a hernia dragging the heavy-ass thing across the parking lot.
There was a time when I could afford to buy decent enough furniture and had some old stuff that I inherited from my parents, but life happened and it all got left behind. Thanks to the rent having gone up by half in the past 3 years, I have little hope of buying furniture again until I can get the fuck out of Florida, and if that changes it's still only going to be cheap flat pack shit. Which, incidentally, is not terribly troubling to me. Sometimes you don't need an heirloom, you just need something to put the goddamned mail on.
posted by wierdo at 2:22 PM on March 15 [4 favorites]
Seriously, I sit on a leather loveseat someone tossed because it was starting to get beat up. Three years later and the leather finally did split. Oh well, it still holds my ass off the ground, so it'll do fine until somebody else decides to discard perfectly usable furniture. I'd say that it was well worth the price of nearly getting a hernia dragging the heavy-ass thing across the parking lot.
There was a time when I could afford to buy decent enough furniture and had some old stuff that I inherited from my parents, but life happened and it all got left behind. Thanks to the rent having gone up by half in the past 3 years, I have little hope of buying furniture again until I can get the fuck out of Florida, and if that changes it's still only going to be cheap flat pack shit. Which, incidentally, is not terribly troubling to me. Sometimes you don't need an heirloom, you just need something to put the goddamned mail on.
posted by wierdo at 2:22 PM on March 15 [4 favorites]
I got a Joybird Hughes sofa in 2017. The cushion foam had compressed by 2019. The seams on both cusions split by 2021—in different locations. This is all via regular use in a two person household. Joybird's warranty doesn't cover the cushions. Replacement cushions go for $200/each, and they're not availble consistently. Repair estimates from local upholsterers and suchlike are as high, if not higher, than the replacement cost. I bought the sofa based on a friend's recommendation, after saving up a not-insignificant chunk of change, because I wanted something that would "last longer than IKEA". I'm so annoyed, I left a negative reivew on Joybird's site 7 years after purchase - this is not a place of honor.
posted by joseph_elmhurst at 2:23 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
posted by joseph_elmhurst at 2:23 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
i would love to trust secondhand furniture from the street or habitat but i can't get over my fear of introducing some unknown critter that will come with it
Since 1980s prices were mentioned, that was also the golden age of free sometimes great furniture picked up off the street around garbage day. And some pretty cheapo deals at Goodwill/Salvation.
posted by ovvl at 2:28 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
Since 1980s prices were mentioned, that was also the golden age of free sometimes great furniture picked up off the street around garbage day. And some pretty cheapo deals at Goodwill/Salvation.
posted by ovvl at 2:28 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
I bought a sofa online in 2020 because, like an idiot, I blew up my life three days before a global pandemic and needed to replace basically 90% of all my household goods. It was from Burrow, and more than I'd spent before in pure dollars but probably not way out of proportion with what I'd spent at IKEA 12 years before, on a loveseat and an armchair. I think it probably ran me $1000, plus shipping.
It's fine? Like, it's had 4 years of pretty constant use (I work from home) and dog and boyfriend (who is VERY hard on couches, I cannot understand how it happens. He's not very large!) And it's basically good; the cushions look fine except for my boyfriend's favorite which is smushed. The upholstery de-furrs easily and the cushions still feel comfy. I have moved it and added sections to it, and the most I've had to do is retighten a screw here and there.
Will it hold up for 30 years? Lord knows. Probably not. But then again neither will I, and the odds that I will undergo some kind of drastic "uh oh we're poor again, time to smush all of us into a studio" move and have to, for the fourth time in my life, replace all my worldly goods from the ground up, are basically 100%.
The furniture may be disposable trash but I am pretty sure that as far as "the world in 2024" is concerned, so am I.
That IKEA armchair though, that shit is solid AF. Love that Karlstad.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:33 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
It's fine? Like, it's had 4 years of pretty constant use (I work from home) and dog and boyfriend (who is VERY hard on couches, I cannot understand how it happens. He's not very large!) And it's basically good; the cushions look fine except for my boyfriend's favorite which is smushed. The upholstery de-furrs easily and the cushions still feel comfy. I have moved it and added sections to it, and the most I've had to do is retighten a screw here and there.
Will it hold up for 30 years? Lord knows. Probably not. But then again neither will I, and the odds that I will undergo some kind of drastic "uh oh we're poor again, time to smush all of us into a studio" move and have to, for the fourth time in my life, replace all my worldly goods from the ground up, are basically 100%.
The furniture may be disposable trash but I am pretty sure that as far as "the world in 2024" is concerned, so am I.
That IKEA armchair though, that shit is solid AF. Love that Karlstad.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:33 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
I found a Mersman 4670 end table for $2.
and someone painted it pink.
posted by clavdivs at 3:02 PM on March 15
and someone painted it pink.
posted by clavdivs at 3:02 PM on March 15
i would love to trust secondhand furniture from the street or habitat but i can't get over my fear of introducing some unknown critter that will come with it
Since 1980s prices were mentioned, that was also the golden age of free sometimes great furniture picked up off the street around garbage day. And some pretty cheapo deals at Goodwill/Salvation.
In the early 1990s some housemates and I dragged home a solid couch in good condition that we found on the curb.
It had rats.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:35 PM on March 15 [7 favorites]
Since 1980s prices were mentioned, that was also the golden age of free sometimes great furniture picked up off the street around garbage day. And some pretty cheapo deals at Goodwill/Salvation.
In the early 1990s some housemates and I dragged home a solid couch in good condition that we found on the curb.
It had rats.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:35 PM on March 15 [7 favorites]
I think this kind of article is bullshit. The real story is that it costs several thousand to simply to reupholster a sofa, not the sofa's worth.
Buy a $5000 sofa, and you get the privilege of having it reupholstered it for another $5000 without a lecture.
Does it really matter if your sofa is no longer worth it's sale price? Who the fuck would spend several thousand bucks to get a sofa reupholstered because they want to maximize its resale value?
Buy what you can afford. Buy what you like. Don't buy thinking it's some kind of investment.
posted by 2N2222 at 7:30 PM on March 15 [3 favorites]
Buy a $5000 sofa, and you get the privilege of having it reupholstered it for another $5000 without a lecture.
Does it really matter if your sofa is no longer worth it's sale price? Who the fuck would spend several thousand bucks to get a sofa reupholstered because they want to maximize its resale value?
Buy what you can afford. Buy what you like. Don't buy thinking it's some kind of investment.
posted by 2N2222 at 7:30 PM on March 15 [3 favorites]
I recently went down the rabbit hole on couches. Yes, there is a lot of shit out there, especially in the DTC sector, but if you learn the terminology for the various options, you can know what to look for.
frame materials:
- Kiln-dried hardwood
- Laminated wood (5-ply, 7-ply, etc)
- MDF and other terrible conglomerates
- flexsteel and other unique setups
frame construction:
- corner blocked
- glued 'n' screwed
- joinery
- stapled, bracketed cheap stuff
The suspension:
- 8-way hand tied
- drop-in coil system
- sinuous springs
- Pirelli rubber band things (I forget what they're called exactly)
- Off brand shitty rubber band things
The seat cushions:
- pure foam (of various densities, higher is always better) available in your preferred firmness
- foam, with or without down, wrapped around spring coils (known as "spring down", sometimes even though the down isn't always there)
- foam core wrapped in down or synth down
Once you understand these, you can start to see the various tradeoffs each manufacturer makes at each price point. One will talk about its kiln dried hardwood frames all day, but make you dig to find out it's using sinuous springs. Others do 8-way hand-tied springs, because some customers know about them, but only offer low-density foam cushions wrapped in down.
IME it's only worth going to a furniture store after you have a decent sense of the above specs. When I bought mine, I went to 3 different stores and encountered a range of expertise, but they *do* have access to the manufacturer's literature, which should be able to tell you at least all the information the manufacturer releases. This guide was a very helpful resource to understanding what each manufacturer offers and which manufacturers to stay away from.
I got the name Smith Brothers from that site, then found this lovely page, which tells me not only that SB are making an effort in terms of materials and construction, but that they are marketing the sofa on the merits of its construction, rather than just vibes or decor trends. Note they do not have super-trendy MCM designs available. I made the decision to purchase after going to test one in a local furniture store, where it turned out that they actually had a Smith Brothers model torn down to show every detail of its construction.
For reference, a Smith Brothers fabric-upholstered L-shape sectional seating 3-4 people cost me roughly $5,000. I checked a few other manufacturers, but none at this level of construction and foam quality were cheaper. I've had it for several months and my partner and I are very happy, as is our dog. I guess the real test will come years from now to see how it has held up.
Also: measure the smallest door the sofa/sectional pieces will have to fit through!
posted by Grimp0teuthis at 7:59 PM on March 15 [39 favorites]
frame materials:
- Kiln-dried hardwood
- Laminated wood (5-ply, 7-ply, etc)
- MDF and other terrible conglomerates
- flexsteel and other unique setups
frame construction:
- corner blocked
- glued 'n' screwed
- joinery
- stapled, bracketed cheap stuff
The suspension:
- 8-way hand tied
- drop-in coil system
- sinuous springs
- Pirelli rubber band things (I forget what they're called exactly)
- Off brand shitty rubber band things
The seat cushions:
- pure foam (of various densities, higher is always better) available in your preferred firmness
- foam, with or without down, wrapped around spring coils (known as "spring down", sometimes even though the down isn't always there)
- foam core wrapped in down or synth down
Once you understand these, you can start to see the various tradeoffs each manufacturer makes at each price point. One will talk about its kiln dried hardwood frames all day, but make you dig to find out it's using sinuous springs. Others do 8-way hand-tied springs, because some customers know about them, but only offer low-density foam cushions wrapped in down.
IME it's only worth going to a furniture store after you have a decent sense of the above specs. When I bought mine, I went to 3 different stores and encountered a range of expertise, but they *do* have access to the manufacturer's literature, which should be able to tell you at least all the information the manufacturer releases. This guide was a very helpful resource to understanding what each manufacturer offers and which manufacturers to stay away from.
I got the name Smith Brothers from that site, then found this lovely page, which tells me not only that SB are making an effort in terms of materials and construction, but that they are marketing the sofa on the merits of its construction, rather than just vibes or decor trends. Note they do not have super-trendy MCM designs available. I made the decision to purchase after going to test one in a local furniture store, where it turned out that they actually had a Smith Brothers model torn down to show every detail of its construction.
For reference, a Smith Brothers fabric-upholstered L-shape sectional seating 3-4 people cost me roughly $5,000. I checked a few other manufacturers, but none at this level of construction and foam quality were cheaper. I've had it for several months and my partner and I are very happy, as is our dog. I guess the real test will come years from now to see how it has held up.
Also: measure the smallest door the sofa/sectional pieces will have to fit through!
posted by Grimp0teuthis at 7:59 PM on March 15 [39 favorites]
Jesus. I mean, I appreciate the rundown and as a persnickety nerd myself, I could totally see myself going down the same rabbit hole, but I just feel like the average consumer shouldn't have to get a PhD in Furniture Construction in order to buy a decent couch, y'know?
posted by btfreek at 8:23 PM on March 15 [19 favorites]
posted by btfreek at 8:23 PM on March 15 [19 favorites]
No one has to, but if if you don’t you get whatever the current system defaults to.
posted by clew at 9:04 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
posted by clew at 9:04 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]
As with everything else these days, it seems, people are not prepared to invest in quality furniture that's going to last them half a lifetime - they'd rather buy something cheap and shitty, then sell it and get a shiny new one when it inevitably falls apart. Similarly, nobody seems to want second-hand furniture at any price and it seems they'd rather rack up credit card debt just to get something new.
I can't afford either quality furniture new or used or the cheap stuff new. Hope my $1,000 couch lasts a few more years (bought a few years ago). I am aware it is cheap. Didn't feel cheap to purchase!
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:43 AM on March 16 [7 favorites]
I can't afford either quality furniture new or used or the cheap stuff new. Hope my $1,000 couch lasts a few more years (bought a few years ago). I am aware it is cheap. Didn't feel cheap to purchase!
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:43 AM on March 16 [7 favorites]
Buy what you can afford. Buy what you like. Don't buy thinking it's some kind of investment.
A couch costs as much as a (shitty) used car. It’s a purchase worth taking thought on.
posted by bq at 7:47 AM on March 16 [3 favorites]
A couch costs as much as a (shitty) used car. It’s a purchase worth taking thought on.
posted by bq at 7:47 AM on March 16 [3 favorites]
Grimp0teuthis, the guide you linked to is amazing. I really wish I'd had that last year when I made my major purchase of a Pottery Barn sleeper sofa. It will have to last me the rest of my life, and it's doing fine (it's for the occasional guest, no one has used the bed yet), but for anyone considering buying a new sofa I highly recommend checking out that guide (which I'm linking again, it was so good)!
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:09 AM on March 16 [8 favorites]
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:09 AM on March 16 [8 favorites]
I bought an Article sofa mainly on the basis of a Wirecutter recommendation. It's fine, but as Grimp0teuthis' guide says, they're deceptively marketed, e.g., "kiln-dried wood" instead of "kiln-dried hardwood." Given that it hardly ever gets sat on, it may last many years to come, but I now kind of wish I had spent twice the money on a Smith Brothers sofa that is visually identical.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:50 AM on March 16 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 8:50 AM on March 16 [2 favorites]
Of course there are times when quality furniture is definitely not worth the cost, like when destructive young children and pets are involved. When I was a kid, my toddler brother emptied an entire bottle of maple syrup onto our velour couch, just for fun, and not being able to afford a replacement right away, we had to live with that thing covered in towels for months as it slowly dried into a sticky, matted patchwork. In this case, I totally understand my mother’s decision to replace it from one of those predatory rent-to-own places as soon as she could.
posted by mubba at 4:59 PM on March 16 [2 favorites]
posted by mubba at 4:59 PM on March 16 [2 favorites]
Buy what you can afford. Buy what you like. Don't buy thinking it's some kind of investment.
A couch costs as much as a (shitty) used car. It’s a purchase worth taking thought on.
Why on earth would you think buying what you can afford, and like, would be thoughtless?
posted by 2N2222 at 5:05 PM on March 16
A couch costs as much as a (shitty) used car. It’s a purchase worth taking thought on.
Why on earth would you think buying what you can afford, and like, would be thoughtless?
posted by 2N2222 at 5:05 PM on March 16
If you didn’t mean to discourage people from looking into the quality of the couch they are buying, then you weren’t clear.
posted by bq at 5:31 PM on March 16 [2 favorites]
posted by bq at 5:31 PM on March 16 [2 favorites]
Yeah the thing is, buying what you afford and you like, you can get more of what you like, for the price you can afford, if you look into how long couches will last.
So if you have, say, 300$ a year that can be saved for a replacement couch, then a 1500$ couch needs to last 5 years, or you're hosed and have to get a shittier version you like less. If that same couch lasts 10 years, you can buy a 3000$ couch which might be nicer. It's not about investment, it's about lengthening the time before you have to shell out for a new one.
posted by corb at 5:51 PM on March 16 [4 favorites]
So if you have, say, 300$ a year that can be saved for a replacement couch, then a 1500$ couch needs to last 5 years, or you're hosed and have to get a shittier version you like less. If that same couch lasts 10 years, you can buy a 3000$ couch which might be nicer. It's not about investment, it's about lengthening the time before you have to shell out for a new one.
posted by corb at 5:51 PM on March 16 [4 favorites]
My couch has lasted about 17 years so far but it's definitely been time to replace it for 2-3 years. The thing that gave out was the support underneath where I sit 90% of the time when I'm on the couch (and since I live alone, that means probably 90% of the total wear and tear).
Which bit are the important magic words if I'm looking specifically for what prevents that from happening? I assume its the "suspension"? Which are the magic words for the good suspensions? I gather "sinuous springs" are Bad. 8-way hand tied are good?
posted by Justinian at 12:22 PM on March 17 [1 favorite]
Which bit are the important magic words if I'm looking specifically for what prevents that from happening? I assume its the "suspension"? Which are the magic words for the good suspensions? I gather "sinuous springs" are Bad. 8-way hand tied are good?
posted by Justinian at 12:22 PM on March 17 [1 favorite]
TBH the magic words are probably 'consumer reports magazine'
posted by bq at 8:04 PM on March 17 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 8:04 PM on March 17 [1 favorite]
@Justinian:
Probably two things have occurred: (1) the suspension - if you have S-shaped wire springs going horizontally across the area under the cushion, those are sinuous springs and yes they tend to sag. Theoretically, you might get a reupholsterer to put on new springs, but I have no idea how much that costs.
8-way hand tied spring suspensions are supposed to last essentially forever, except that the guide says you have to get them retied every 20ish years or so. The drop-in spring unit (what I went with) is supposedly about as good, cheaper, and doesn't require re-tying.
(2) The cushions tend to flatten out over time. Smith Brothers says their quaalux 2.5 density foam is "the best in the business" and that guide I linked to agrees, and even that is only rated for about 15 years for people under 250 lbs, so less dense foam will not last as long. "Spring down" (springs inside the cushion, wrapped in foam) might go a little longer... or maybe the springs will poke through?
posted by Grimp0teuthis at 1:49 PM on March 18
Probably two things have occurred: (1) the suspension - if you have S-shaped wire springs going horizontally across the area under the cushion, those are sinuous springs and yes they tend to sag. Theoretically, you might get a reupholsterer to put on new springs, but I have no idea how much that costs.
8-way hand tied spring suspensions are supposed to last essentially forever, except that the guide says you have to get them retied every 20ish years or so. The drop-in spring unit (what I went with) is supposedly about as good, cheaper, and doesn't require re-tying.
(2) The cushions tend to flatten out over time. Smith Brothers says their quaalux 2.5 density foam is "the best in the business" and that guide I linked to agrees, and even that is only rated for about 15 years for people under 250 lbs, so less dense foam will not last as long. "Spring down" (springs inside the cushion, wrapped in foam) might go a little longer... or maybe the springs will poke through?
posted by Grimp0teuthis at 1:49 PM on March 18
Mod note: [btw, this post and Grimp0teuthis's comment have been added to the sidebar and Best Of blog!]
posted by taz (staff) at 4:06 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 4:06 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
Except it feels like that theory doesn't hold up anymore. Like, that's the whole point of at least this thread if not exactly the original article - people are paying what they think is a lot of money for a couch, often from a previously or purportedly reputable brand, and are not getting the quality and life expectancy that justifies the additional expense.
This has nothing to do with the Vimes boots theory, though, which concerns itself with inequality and how it’s expensive to be poor. This is a situation where people are making assumptions about what they think “expensive” should mean, and basing their expectations on those assumptions.
Just because $10 boots need to be replaced every year doesn’t mean $20 boots only need to be replaced every two years, even if $20 boots seem very expensive to you.
posted by Molten Berle at 1:12 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]
This has nothing to do with the Vimes boots theory, though, which concerns itself with inequality and how it’s expensive to be poor. This is a situation where people are making assumptions about what they think “expensive” should mean, and basing their expectations on those assumptions.
Just because $10 boots need to be replaced every year doesn’t mean $20 boots only need to be replaced every two years, even if $20 boots seem very expensive to you.
posted by Molten Berle at 1:12 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]
misskaz: I'm desperately in the market for a new dining set but...I know I'm gonna have to spend a minimum of $5k
And yet older, solidly-made furniture goes begging on Facebook Marketplace and ends up on the curb because none of us like the style.
And correctly so, I might add: some of this stuff is hideous! But it's solid maple, well-assembled, with hardware that isn't pot metal, too. The problem is that it's shaped like a junkie's nightmare, all odd curves and unappealing bulbous bits, or oddball rattan panels, or whatever.
Three of my neighbors are having their kitchens redone, and the first set of dining room furniture has already migrated to the curb next to their dumpster. I know the others will follow, because everyone will end up with an open floorpan that includes a new table & chairs.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:30 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]
And yet older, solidly-made furniture goes begging on Facebook Marketplace and ends up on the curb because none of us like the style.
And correctly so, I might add: some of this stuff is hideous! But it's solid maple, well-assembled, with hardware that isn't pot metal, too. The problem is that it's shaped like a junkie's nightmare, all odd curves and unappealing bulbous bits, or oddball rattan panels, or whatever.
Three of my neighbors are having their kitchens redone, and the first set of dining room furniture has already migrated to the curb next to their dumpster. I know the others will follow, because everyone will end up with an open floorpan that includes a new table & chairs.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:30 PM on March 19 [3 favorites]
because everyone will end up with an open floorpan
Can somebody post a thread so I can express my bafflement at everybody’s newfound hatred of walls?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:28 AM on March 20 [6 favorites]
Can somebody post a thread so I can express my bafflement at everybody’s newfound hatred of walls?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:28 AM on March 20 [6 favorites]
The reason for wanting an open floor plan is not that complicated! I live in a condo and if the living room, kitchen, and dining room were three separate rooms I would not be able to have more than four people over and hanging out in the same room at one time. Separating these rooms with a hallway wouldn't even be possible in my floor plan, but just as an estimate would probably eat up 100 square feet of livable space just to satisfy some wall fetish. No thank you!
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 10:53 AM on March 21 [4 favorites]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 10:53 AM on March 21 [4 favorites]
Hard walls are awkward in small spaces like condos. "Soft" walls in an open plan design, like shelving, room dividers, and curtains, are wonderful and can create comfortable nooks, visual interest, and extra storage opportunities. That said, too many "great rooms" I've seen are vast wastelands of carpeting. Christopher Alexander talked a lot about useful/wasteful subdivision of living spaces in his book.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:16 AM on March 21 [2 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:16 AM on March 21 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I think it depends on the house size, but people mistake the plans as house-neutral when they aren’t. When people have one room that’s 50 feet long, that’s kind of insane.
posted by corb at 6:37 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 6:37 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]
So if you have, say, 300$ a year that can be saved for a replacement couch, then a 1500$ couch needs to last 5 years, or you're hosed and have to get a shittier version you like less. If that same couch lasts 10 years, you can buy a 3000$ couch which might be nicer. It's not about investment, it's about lengthening the time before you have to shell out for a new one.
What do you do during the intervening years until you've saved up enough? Go without?
That's part of the calculation. Whether you've saved or not, you're still buying what you could afford and what you like. Not to mention that price may not be the indicator of longevity you might hope it is. It's not a given that your expensive sofa will be worth reupholstering. Nor is it a given that you won't simply be sick of looking at it after 10 years. A $3000 sofa may in fact be the wiser choice in some way. But not if you only have $400 to spend.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:16 AM on March 23 [1 favorite]
What do you do during the intervening years until you've saved up enough? Go without?
That's part of the calculation. Whether you've saved or not, you're still buying what you could afford and what you like. Not to mention that price may not be the indicator of longevity you might hope it is. It's not a given that your expensive sofa will be worth reupholstering. Nor is it a given that you won't simply be sick of looking at it after 10 years. A $3000 sofa may in fact be the wiser choice in some way. But not if you only have $400 to spend.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:16 AM on March 23 [1 favorite]
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How much to Cane a chair?
posted by clavdivs at 8:35 PM on March 14 [5 favorites]