OJ Simpson dead at 76
April 11, 2024 7:44 AM Subscribe
OJ Simpson dead at 76 Remember the slow white suv LA chase?
I totally forgot he existed except for the brief moments he really thought he could pull a comeback. I will not give him a dot, but I will give one for Nicole and Ron.
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posted by Kitteh at 7:46 AM on April 11 [27 favorites]
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posted by Kitteh at 7:46 AM on April 11 [27 favorites]
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posted by waving at 7:50 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
posted by waving at 7:50 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
đ
posted by May Kasahara at 7:51 AM on April 11
posted by May Kasahara at 7:51 AM on April 11
Domestic abuser and murderer, wholly unrepentant, no dot from me.
posted by praemunire at 7:51 AM on April 11 [62 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 7:51 AM on April 11 [62 favorites]
Relevant social media thread about OJ and racism, from Mekka Okereke:
"It's still not about OJ. Please don't try to say anything about OJ today if you don't know everything in this thread. Not a word.
Because what you say will almost certainly be wrong."
posted by cyrusdogstar at 7:52 AM on April 11 [97 favorites]
"It's still not about OJ. Please don't try to say anything about OJ today if you don't know everything in this thread. Not a word.
Because what you say will almost certainly be wrong."
posted by cyrusdogstar at 7:52 AM on April 11 [97 favorites]
Yeah read that thread above first.
posted by whuppy at 7:55 AM on April 11 [5 favorites]
posted by whuppy at 7:55 AM on April 11 [5 favorites]
I still haven't re-watched any of the Naked Gun movies. I don't think I'm missing much because they're pretty terrible and cringy and always have been. (Police Squad on the other hand....)
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:56 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:56 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
murderer
posted by whatevernot at 7:56 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 7:56 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
Bye.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:57 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:57 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
I'm brewing me another coffee.
posted by ocschwar at 7:58 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
posted by ocschwar at 7:58 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
Cancer does what the legal system could not.
posted by tommasz at 7:58 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 7:58 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
. . for his murder victims, not for him.
posted by Gelatin at 7:59 AM on April 11 [5 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 7:59 AM on April 11 [5 favorites]
Remember the slow white suv LA chase?
Everybody was talking about it the next day, but I was watching something else, and nobody called to tell me to switch channels.
posted by Rash at 8:00 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
Everybody was talking about it the next day, but I was watching something else, and nobody called to tell me to switch channels.
posted by Rash at 8:00 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
Domestic abuser and murderer, wholly unrepentant, no dot from me either.
If you want to learn more about this, the You're Wrong About podcast has a multi-part series on OJ Simpson.
TL;DR: It's a bog standard story of an abusive husband who gives all the warning signs that everyone ignores and then he murders his wife, and the police and media completely screw up the investigation and story because they either don't care or only care about the spectacle.
posted by AlSweigart at 8:02 AM on April 11 [23 favorites]
If you want to learn more about this, the You're Wrong About podcast has a multi-part series on OJ Simpson.
TL;DR: It's a bog standard story of an abusive husband who gives all the warning signs that everyone ignores and then he murders his wife, and the police and media completely screw up the investigation and story because they either don't care or only care about the spectacle.
posted by AlSweigart at 8:02 AM on April 11 [23 favorites]
I overheard my Work Buddies talking about this a moment ago and joined them. One was checking the news on her phone and got a text from a friend commenting on things: "Maybe Nicole came for him."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:02 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:02 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
He was getting too close to the real killer.
posted by whuppy at 8:04 AM on April 11 [21 favorites]
posted by whuppy at 8:04 AM on April 11 [21 favorites]
I feel like the only justice would have been jailing OJ and the LAPD.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:05 AM on April 11 [8 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:05 AM on April 11 [8 favorites]
No really, Mekka's thread is worth reading. First post in it (it's from Feb 2023):
There's a surface story here about a guy who killed his wife and got away with it in court. That story sucks and maybe comes to one conclusion now that OJ's dead. But there's a deeper cultural story here that is what we're all thinking about. About celebrity and the legal system and racial politics. That story is ongoing and complex and Mekka gives a view into a big piece of it.
posted by Nelson at 8:07 AM on April 11 [35 favorites]
Happy #BlackHistoryMonth !The rest of the thread has a lot of detail it was helpful for me to understand. Layers upon layers of injustice.
I'm still not onto Black history. I'm still on white US history.
Q: Why were Black folk so happy when OJ was acquitted? To be honest, it feels disgusting. Why does it seem like you're happy he got away with murder?
A: Racism. Black folk did not like OJ that much. In fact, many Black people think he did it. Black folk didn't "celebrate OJ." Black folk celebrated the hope that a brutally unjust, evil, and racist system, could be defeated at all.
There's a surface story here about a guy who killed his wife and got away with it in court. That story sucks and maybe comes to one conclusion now that OJ's dead. But there's a deeper cultural story here that is what we're all thinking about. About celebrity and the legal system and racial politics. That story is ongoing and complex and Mekka gives a view into a big piece of it.
posted by Nelson at 8:07 AM on April 11 [35 favorites]
O.J.: Made in America is absolutely fantastic and really probes those deeper cultural stories. Absolutely worth the time investment.
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for his victims, only.
posted by HumanComplex at 8:17 AM on April 11 [10 favorites]
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for his victims, only.
posted by HumanComplex at 8:17 AM on April 11 [10 favorites]
The LAPD tried to frame a guilty man.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:17 AM on April 11 [76 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:17 AM on April 11 [76 favorites]
Remember the slow white suv LA chase?
I was working at a summer theater, during dress rehearsals for The Pirates of Penzance, so we had a rotating group of castmembers in the greenroom, most of them dressed in 19th century sailors outfits, watching the chase on the huge 1970s woodgrained-cabinet TV.
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:18 AM on April 11 [7 favorites]
I was working at a summer theater, during dress rehearsals for The Pirates of Penzance, so we had a rotating group of castmembers in the greenroom, most of them dressed in 19th century sailors outfits, watching the chase on the huge 1970s woodgrained-cabinet TV.
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:18 AM on April 11 [7 favorites]
I won't be posting any .s for Mark Fuhrman, either, believe me. A man whose career as a police officer shouldn't have lasted more than about five minutes.
posted by praemunire at 8:19 AM on April 11 [9 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 8:19 AM on April 11 [9 favorites]
The LAPD tried to frame a guilty man.
And failed! Which is some truly S-Tier cop shit.
posted by The Bellman at 8:20 AM on April 11 [45 favorites]
And failed! Which is some truly S-Tier cop shit.
posted by The Bellman at 8:20 AM on April 11 [45 favorites]
Another recommendation to read mekka's thread. My favorite line so far:
"Always seemed to me that OJ Simpson was framed for a crime he did commit."
posted by fuzzy.little.sock at 8:20 AM on April 11 [18 favorites]
"Always seemed to me that OJ Simpson was framed for a crime he did commit."
posted by fuzzy.little.sock at 8:20 AM on April 11 [18 favorites]
A perfect storm of race, class, gender, law enforcement, and justice system issues, which have only gotten more prevalent in the decades since, because America refuses to deal with them in any meaningful way.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:20 AM on April 11 [10 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:20 AM on April 11 [10 favorites]
Eagerly awaiting the release of "If I Were Dead."
posted by uncleozzy at 8:23 AM on April 11 [15 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 8:23 AM on April 11 [15 favorites]
Drudge Report headline at the moment: CANCER MURDERS OJ.
posted by emelenjr at 8:23 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
posted by emelenjr at 8:23 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
There's a surface story here about a guy who killed his wife and got away with it in court. That story sucks and maybe comes to one conclusion now that OJ's dead. But there's a deeper cultural story here that is what we're all thinking about. About celebrity and the legal system and racial politics.
Chris Rock did a great bit about it back in 1996:
Chris Rock did a great bit about it back in 1996:
âThat was all about race.â That shit wasnât about race. That shit was about fame. If O.J. wasnât famous, heâd be in jail right now. If O.J. drove a bus... If O.J. drove a bus, he wouldnât even be O.J. Heâd be Orenthal the Bus Driving Murderer.posted by May Kasahara at 8:27 AM on April 11 [18 favorites]
Black folk celebrated the hope that a brutally unjust, evil, and racist system, could be defeated at all.
I find this analysis incomplete. Some of them (like some white people) were celebrity/success-worshippers. And some of them (like many white people) were misogynists who didn't take domestic violence seriously at all. The latter group are still turning out every time a black male celebrity is accused of domestic violence--why does Chris Brown still have a career? Why do so many people still support Jonathan Majors? Neither of these nasty impulses are unique to black people, or to OJ supporters, but they are both widespread enough, then and now, that I don't like an analysis that downplays them in favor of a "Johnny Cochran stuck it to the man!" folk triumph.
posted by praemunire at 8:27 AM on April 11 [18 favorites]
I find this analysis incomplete. Some of them (like some white people) were celebrity/success-worshippers. And some of them (like many white people) were misogynists who didn't take domestic violence seriously at all. The latter group are still turning out every time a black male celebrity is accused of domestic violence--why does Chris Brown still have a career? Why do so many people still support Jonathan Majors? Neither of these nasty impulses are unique to black people, or to OJ supporters, but they are both widespread enough, then and now, that I don't like an analysis that downplays them in favor of a "Johnny Cochran stuck it to the man!" folk triumph.
posted by praemunire at 8:27 AM on April 11 [18 favorites]
I remember the Dancing Itos on TV and my dad saying flatly, âtwo people were murdered.â
posted by girlmightlive at 8:34 AM on April 11 [26 favorites]
posted by girlmightlive at 8:34 AM on April 11 [26 favorites]
Another vote for the documentary OJ: Made in America
It's about so much more than OJ.
posted by WithWildAbandon at 8:35 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
It's about so much more than OJ.
posted by WithWildAbandon at 8:35 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
To this day I wonder whether it is possible that Mark Fuhrman killed Nicole and Ron. His motive: as he said early on, LAPD had driven him to be racist.
He happened to be a senior cop working the late shift on a Sunday who had previous experience dealing with OJ as an abuser and who happened to be in the center of much of the key evidence.
Do I really believe he did it? Nah. Too much else about OJ: the Bruno Magli shoes, the timeline that fit his complicity.
Still, if I were on the jury and heard Fuhrman tell the whopper about how he saw a drop of blood on OJs car and worried about him bleeding to death and that's why he jumped over the wall to the spot where he found the second glove: I would have voted OJ innocent.
I also wonder about Fuhrman and how he happened to find the evidence in the Michael Skakel/Martha Moxley case.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:37 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
He happened to be a senior cop working the late shift on a Sunday who had previous experience dealing with OJ as an abuser and who happened to be in the center of much of the key evidence.
Do I really believe he did it? Nah. Too much else about OJ: the Bruno Magli shoes, the timeline that fit his complicity.
Still, if I were on the jury and heard Fuhrman tell the whopper about how he saw a drop of blood on OJs car and worried about him bleeding to death and that's why he jumped over the wall to the spot where he found the second glove: I would have voted OJ innocent.
I also wonder about Fuhrman and how he happened to find the evidence in the Michael Skakel/Martha Moxley case.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:37 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
The weirdest bit of ephemera around OJ to me is his (2006) short-lived prank show "Juiced" which is as bizarre, uncomfortable, and offensive as it sounds. (Vogue article)
The show's concept and its very existence is too dense in symbolism to unpack.
posted by slimepuppy at 8:40 AM on April 11 [5 favorites]
The show's concept and its very existence is too dense in symbolism to unpack.
posted by slimepuppy at 8:40 AM on April 11 [5 favorites]
My school used to host a drama festival each year for our school and other surrounding private/small schools. One school decided to perform "The Trial of the Century". There was breakdancing. Yes it was weird.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:41 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:41 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
Regrettably, his personality disorder was rarely exposed as the dangerous narcissist who avoided tackles as an art form.
posted by Brian B. at 8:41 AM on April 11
posted by Brian B. at 8:41 AM on April 11
During the murder and trial I was in my âI donât have a TV, check me out â phase but I saw some of the chase in a store or restaurant. I proceeded to totally ignore the whole saga and not watch or read about the trial. I sort of feel like that set me on a good path to not hover over Johnny Depp, JK Rowling, Alec Baldwin, etc. and all their various dramas. Not that itâs not interesting - it just bothers me because crimes and errors by normal people just get handled and we move on. Iâm kind of offended on behalf of everyone else that OJ or Trump get these expensive lawyers and infinite time and effort to dispose of their cases.
posted by caviar2d2 at 8:43 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
posted by caviar2d2 at 8:43 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
I think that weirdly the trials worked as they should have. I think he did it. I think that given the evidence it was impossible to find him guilty without ignoring the clear signs that he was framed. The civil trial found him liable for the wrongful deaths of two people, which I think he was. Not a satisfying outcome, but the correct one under the circumstances.
If nothing else, I can tell my inner child that OJ will never preempt Gargoyles again and call it a day.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:44 AM on April 11 [17 favorites]
If nothing else, I can tell my inner child that OJ will never preempt Gargoyles again and call it a day.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:44 AM on April 11 [17 favorites]
11+ minutes of Norm MacDonald dunking on OJ
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:47 AM on April 11 [13 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:47 AM on April 11 [13 favorites]
Remember the slow white suv LA chase?
Another vote for the documentary OJ: Made in America
Shout out also to the documentary entitled simply June 17th, 1994, that was part of the first batch of ESPN's 30 For 30 documentary series, capturing the mounting weirdness of the day as that car chase slowly overrode every other story on TV.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:52 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
Another vote for the documentary OJ: Made in America
Shout out also to the documentary entitled simply June 17th, 1994, that was part of the first batch of ESPN's 30 For 30 documentary series, capturing the mounting weirdness of the day as that car chase slowly overrode every other story on TV.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:52 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
One thing I wish his family does is donate his brain to research - I wouldn't be surprised if they found significant signs of CTE.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:05 AM on April 11 [24 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:05 AM on April 11 [24 favorites]
I'm glad that Fred Goldman outlived him.
posted by ZaphodB at 9:05 AM on April 11 [20 favorites]
posted by ZaphodB at 9:05 AM on April 11 [20 favorites]
Without in any way denying Simpson's culpability for his abuse and his murders, I think these murders may well not have happened without the years of brain injury sustained by Simpson during his years playing football. CTE didn't make him cruel or self centered, but it likely led to poor impulse control and episodes of explosive rage.
He got years more life and freedom than his victims did. I don't feel any pity for him, dying of natural causes.
God have mercy on his soul, and grant peace to the families of his victims, including his children.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 9:12 AM on April 11 [19 favorites]
He got years more life and freedom than his victims did. I don't feel any pity for him, dying of natural causes.
God have mercy on his soul, and grant peace to the families of his victims, including his children.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 9:12 AM on April 11 [19 favorites]
The advent of smartphones and body worn police cameras has changed white folks' perception of how often the police lie, brutalize Black people, and plant evidence.
I got this far into the first link and then had to quit. I have nothing to say about OJ's guilt or death, but this statement makes me viscerally ill. How and why can some white people deny this is happening? How/why can they look at these videos and not want to change things? We allow this. I am white, and I am ashamed. There was no justice involved anywhere in this case.
posted by BlueHorse at 9:20 AM on April 11 [4 favorites]
I got this far into the first link and then had to quit. I have nothing to say about OJ's guilt or death, but this statement makes me viscerally ill. How and why can some white people deny this is happening? How/why can they look at these videos and not want to change things? We allow this. I am white, and I am ashamed. There was no justice involved anywhere in this case.
posted by BlueHorse at 9:20 AM on April 11 [4 favorites]
I don't have have any real time memories of the chase though a friend had a white bronco and that was an infuriating time to be driving a white bronco.
I do remember the day the verdict came down and how, if my office was any indication, the provincial government ground to a halt for hours.
Some estimates put the productivity loss cost to the American economy at $480 Billion. "Trading volume dropped 41% on the NYSE and phone calls dropped 58%". It's been speculated that the half hour after the verdict was one of the least productive time periods in American history.
posted by Mitheral at 9:23 AM on April 11 [4 favorites]
I do remember the day the verdict came down and how, if my office was any indication, the provincial government ground to a halt for hours.
Some estimates put the productivity loss cost to the American economy at $480 Billion. "Trading volume dropped 41% on the NYSE and phone calls dropped 58%". It's been speculated that the half hour after the verdict was one of the least productive time periods in American history.
posted by Mitheral at 9:23 AM on April 11 [4 favorites]
I worked in a place that had a tv on all day, so I watched the entire trial. I felt that it was highly likely that he was guilty, but also that his acquittal was appropriate, all things given.
that said, the linked thread up stream was a great read and I'm glad to have that additional perspective on it.
no dots for him.
I always felt so bad for those children. what a terrible legacy to have to come to terms with.
posted by supermedusa at 9:23 AM on April 11 [7 favorites]
that said, the linked thread up stream was a great read and I'm glad to have that additional perspective on it.
no dots for him.
I always felt so bad for those children. what a terrible legacy to have to come to terms with.
posted by supermedusa at 9:23 AM on April 11 [7 favorites]
it's pretty bonkers how the whole country was basically mesmerized by the trial. My teacher wheeled out a television for us to watch the verdict! In the 6th grade! I think she just didn't want to miss it. the whole thing was confusing, because while he was obviously guilty, i was already on my anti-cop bullshit by then and knew, just knew, that mark furhman was a dirty cop and a racist.
Anyway, I hope the Kardashians pay homage to the man who made them famous.
posted by dis_integration at 9:25 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
Anyway, I hope the Kardashians pay homage to the man who made them famous.
posted by dis_integration at 9:25 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
To this day I wonder whether it is possible that Mark Fuhrman killed Nicole and Ron.
It's not! OJ left a trail of blood at the scene, in his car, and from his car into his house.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:34 AM on April 11 [8 favorites]
It's not! OJ left a trail of blood at the scene, in his car, and from his car into his house.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:34 AM on April 11 [8 favorites]
"I have never killed any one, but I have read some obituary notices with great satisfaction." -- Clarence Darrow
posted by kirkaracha at 9:37 AM on April 11 [13 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:37 AM on April 11 [13 favorites]
I appreciated the link to the February 2023 thread by Mekka Okereke. Through it I found a link to "excerpts from the tapes and transcripts delivered to the Court by Laura Hart McKinny" with quotes by Fuhrman spanning 1985-1994 which I had not previously read. (Okereke says, "Please don't try to talk to any Black people, (especially me!), about the OJ trial, if you have not read this transcript in its entirety.") Repulsive stuff. Content note for lots of uses of the n-word; that's why I'm linking not to the actual document but instead to Okereke's post, which points to the document. (More on the Fuhrman tapes, especially on the subsequent LAPD response.)
posted by brainwane at 9:38 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
posted by brainwane at 9:38 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
Fuck OJ
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:38 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:38 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
It's incredibly hard to know whether O.J. left a trail of blood, or the cops did.
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:38 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:38 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
Fuck OJ yes, for sure. but seriously fuck Mark Fuhrmann and the LAPD forever too.
posted by supermedusa at 9:42 AM on April 11 [18 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 9:42 AM on April 11 [18 favorites]
I remember watching the car chase on the TV at the bar in Duke Nukem 3D
posted by credulous at 9:43 AM on April 11 [11 favorites]
posted by credulous at 9:43 AM on April 11 [11 favorites]
Finally, some good news
posted by june_dodecahedron at 9:49 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
posted by june_dodecahedron at 9:49 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
Only commenting on the ripples in society. At the time the verdict came down I was a high school student taking a mediocre class on "ecology" at the local private college. (Can't believe I spent US$3K in 1997 dollars to grow a seed in a paper cup for extra credit. Actually, I gave my plant to someone else because I was going to get an 'A' anyway. But I digress.) I had brought what was then known as a "transistor" radio with a mono earpiece to hear the verdict. When people noticed that I was listening to it, class came to a stop and, teacher included, everyone demanded to hear. But this radio didn't have a speaker (god, I wish people had to carry boom boxes around if they wanted to irritate those around them). So I became the human megaphone, listening in my ear and repeating what was being said out loud. It's surprisingly difficult to do, when the speaker is going at a normal clip. I remember saying, "We the people in the above entitled action find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty." (That's not what was said, FYI, but it's what I recall.) The surprise was palpable.
posted by wnissen at 9:54 AM on April 11 [5 favorites]
posted by wnissen at 9:54 AM on April 11 [5 favorites]
Now that he's in heaven, hopefully he can find the real killers.
posted by atrazine at 10:00 AM on April 11
posted by atrazine at 10:00 AM on April 11
The OJ trial definitely was a thing - my whole grad research lab came to a dead stop to watch the verdict. After reading the thread above and others comments, there's a few things I can't help but believe.
- OJ was guilty. This was a classic domestic abuse homicide and you don't need CTE for that.
- The LAPD couldn't stop being a deeply racist organization long enough to generate a clean rock solid case
- The Rodney King trial from a few years prior primed a jury to understand how badly behaved the LAPD was(/is)
- OJ had enough fame and money to employ a savvy legal team that could take advantage of that foundation of clay and bullshit
- Chris Rock is absolutely right about OJ the Football/Movie Star vs. OJ the Bus Driver
There's a certain class of white person who glories in a guilty person of color. Your Chris Browns, Michael Vicks, OJ Simpsons. They'd never make a racist joke, oh no. But they will gladly use a Black person's name as a punchline when a dozen examples of white folks guilty of the same crime exist. How often do you hear Chris Brown's name used when it's not making some kind of 'joke' about domestic abuse? And yet how rarely do names like John Lennon, Bill Murray, Sean Connery, Jack Nicholson, âŚcome up in similar conversations? Even when not making light of the subject, they will rush to use a Black example of a crime when making a point, despite countless examples of other races. Folks had a field day when they found out Bill Cosby was doing the same shit white men do so regularly that it became a common premise for Revenge of the Nerds-style 'boner comedies.'
Quoth Mos Def/Yasiin Bey:
(And I'm saying all of this as yet-another-brother who didn't fuck wit O.J.'s Republican ass in the slightest. But when a brother finally whitewashes himself enough to get a taste of the celebrity justice usually reserved for white folks? Other white folks seem to have a loooooong memory for that sort of thing.)
posted by Eideteker at 10:17 AM on April 11 [29 favorites]
Quoth Mos Def/Yasiin Bey:
You can laugh and criticize Michael Jackson if you wannaLike with many deaths, this is an opportunity to reflect on ourselves and our own behaviors, and those of us around us, etc. Will those whose crimes were greater or equal be remembered the same?
Woody Allen molested and married his step-daughter
Same press kicking dirt on Michael's name
Show Woody and Soon-Yi at the playoff game holding hands
Sit back and just think about that
Would he get that type of dap if his name was Woody Black?
O.J. found innocent by a jury of his peers
And they been fucking with that n***a for last five years
Is it fair? Is it equal? Is it just? Is it right?
Do you do the same shit when the defendant face is white?
(And I'm saying all of this as yet-another-brother who didn't fuck wit O.J.'s Republican ass in the slightest. But when a brother finally whitewashes himself enough to get a taste of the celebrity justice usually reserved for white folks? Other white folks seem to have a loooooong memory for that sort of thing.)
posted by Eideteker at 10:17 AM on April 11 [29 favorites]
Mods need to delete those dots up there.
No mourning murderers.
posted by chronkite at 10:17 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
No mourning murderers.
posted by chronkite at 10:17 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
0. White Ford Bronco
1. "If I did it"
2. Dat memorabilia theft. (not sure which order 1 and 2 are in).
3. Norm MacDonald's ghost is having a good time in hell laughing at OJ now...
posted by symbioid at 10:26 AM on April 11
1. "If I did it"
2. Dat memorabilia theft. (not sure which order 1 and 2 are in).
3. Norm MacDonald's ghost is having a good time in hell laughing at OJ now...
posted by symbioid at 10:26 AM on April 11
From the @mekkaokereke thread above:
* It's often the husband
Honestly, that's the main reason I suspected him. Men get murdered for all kinds of reasons, but women are mostly murdered by the men the love(d).
posted by klanawa at 10:42 AM on April 11 [8 favorites]
* It's often the husband
Honestly, that's the main reason I suspected him. Men get murdered for all kinds of reasons, but women are mostly murdered by the men the love(d).
posted by klanawa at 10:42 AM on April 11 [8 favorites]
Ah, just a tiny bit less evil in the world.
I was in college, and my dance class got delayed because everyone in the Performing Arts building was glued to one TV put in the hallway. I was annoyed because I wanted to dance more than I wanted to hear the verdict.
I hope the adult kids can find some peace once their Dad's out of the news cycle.
posted by luckynerd at 10:49 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
I was in college, and my dance class got delayed because everyone in the Performing Arts building was glued to one TV put in the hallway. I was annoyed because I wanted to dance more than I wanted to hear the verdict.
I hope the adult kids can find some peace once their Dad's out of the news cycle.
posted by luckynerd at 10:49 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
it's pretty bonkers how the whole country was basically mesmerized by the trial. My teacher wheeled out a television for us to watch the verdict! In the 6th grade! I think she just didn't want to miss it.
so I'm guilty of cheering when I heard he was "innocent"*. Not because I particularly cared way up here in Canada ... beyond not wanting to see a bunch of riots (which was a prevalent concern at the time), and yes, wanting to see certain people get pissed off, who I thought of as friends, but they'd gotten so wholly wrapped up in it all I'd come to loathe their boring presence. I recall one party in particular finally cutting loose, "If you had even the tiniest notion of how LITTLE I FUCKING CARE ABOUT ANY OF THIS SHIT, you'd start apologizing to me now and you wouldn't stop for at least three weeks. GET A LIFE!!!"
* I did do everything I could to pay no attention to it all, which meant that I didn't have a remotely informed notion as to whether the man was or wasn't guilty, so in retrospect I guess I'm sorry for that cheer. But not really. Because it wasn't a guy getting away with two murders I was cheering, it was The Spectacle going somewhat rogue and slapping a bunch of people in the face who should've known better. Or something like that.
The following dot is for all the wasted life that trial was responsible for.
.
posted by philip-random at 10:57 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
so I'm guilty of cheering when I heard he was "innocent"*. Not because I particularly cared way up here in Canada ... beyond not wanting to see a bunch of riots (which was a prevalent concern at the time), and yes, wanting to see certain people get pissed off, who I thought of as friends, but they'd gotten so wholly wrapped up in it all I'd come to loathe their boring presence. I recall one party in particular finally cutting loose, "If you had even the tiniest notion of how LITTLE I FUCKING CARE ABOUT ANY OF THIS SHIT, you'd start apologizing to me now and you wouldn't stop for at least three weeks. GET A LIFE!!!"
* I did do everything I could to pay no attention to it all, which meant that I didn't have a remotely informed notion as to whether the man was or wasn't guilty, so in retrospect I guess I'm sorry for that cheer. But not really. Because it wasn't a guy getting away with two murders I was cheering, it was The Spectacle going somewhat rogue and slapping a bunch of people in the face who should've known better. Or something like that.
The following dot is for all the wasted life that trial was responsible for.
.
posted by philip-random at 10:57 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
luckynerd: I was also late to class in high school because of the verdict. My Latin teacher, a man I generally wanted to impress, looked down his nose in a way I haven't quite forgotten as I took my seat. I knew he knew why.
They framed a guilty man and by doing so fucked it all up so thoroughly that what was left was a war of two narratives. The disposability of Nicole Goldman, the type of blonde who exists, in Hollywood, to be desired and to be murdered ... versus hundreds of years of false testimony and lynchings and racist law enforcement ... To do justice to one is to deny it to the other. Who could have won?
posted by Countess Elena at 10:59 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
They framed a guilty man and by doing so fucked it all up so thoroughly that what was left was a war of two narratives. The disposability of Nicole Goldman, the type of blonde who exists, in Hollywood, to be desired and to be murdered ... versus hundreds of years of false testimony and lynchings and racist law enforcement ... To do justice to one is to deny it to the other. Who could have won?
posted by Countess Elena at 10:59 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
I second the wonderful June 17th, 1994 documentary. So many momentous sports related things happened on that day. I was just starting a week long, extended family reunion and I have vivid memories of so many cousins and aunts and uncles huddled around the tv to watch the car chase.
As for the trial, it was during my freshmen and sophomore years of college. It was on all the communal TVs so it was like I had lunch throughout the whole trial.
posted by mmascolino at 11:13 AM on April 11
As for the trial, it was during my freshmen and sophomore years of college. It was on all the communal TVs so it was like I had lunch throughout the whole trial.
posted by mmascolino at 11:13 AM on April 11
Will they get a white bronco for his funeral procession?
posted by greatalleycat at 11:19 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
posted by greatalleycat at 11:19 AM on April 11 [6 favorites]
I remain firmly of the opinion that the LAPD framed the wrong guy. I also suspect that like a lot of football players who have been involved in violent crime, CTE was likely a factor.
But mostly it proves how racism undermines justice. OJ Simpson murdered two people but thanks to a relentlessly racist and corrupt police system the case was tainted and he walked.
You'd think the moral of the story is don't let racist police frame even guilty people, but I'm pretty sure the moral most police took was "be better at framing people".
posted by sotonohito at 11:22 AM on April 11 [5 favorites]
But mostly it proves how racism undermines justice. OJ Simpson murdered two people but thanks to a relentlessly racist and corrupt police system the case was tainted and he walked.
You'd think the moral of the story is don't let racist police frame even guilty people, but I'm pretty sure the moral most police took was "be better at framing people".
posted by sotonohito at 11:22 AM on April 11 [5 favorites]
I remain firmly of the opinion that the LAPD framed the wrong guy.
I'm genuinely curious---for those that say OJ didn't do it, who do they think did? Is there a consensus from the 'he didn't do it' crowd?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:29 AM on April 11
To this day I wonder whether it is possible that Mark Fuhrman killed Nicole and Ron.
It's not! OJ left a trail of blood at the scene, in his car, and from his car into his house.
From the Mekka Okereke thread linked by cyrusdogstar:
It's not! OJ left a trail of blood at the scene, in his car, and from his car into his house.
From the Mekka Okereke thread linked by cyrusdogstar:
When OJ was arrested, a sample of blood was drawn from him, to compare DNA against crime scene samples. Let's say they withdrew X units of blood. Makes sense.posted by solotoro at 11:38 AM on April 11 [21 favorites]
But instead of that blood being taken from where it was drawn from OJ, directly to the lab, that blood was taken *to the crime scene* by the same racist officer that has admitted to planting evidence in the past. đ¤Śđżââď¸
When the blood eventually did show up at the lab, some of it was "missing." Only Y units showed up at the lab. Y < X.đ¤Śđżââď¸
After the blood took this little detour, a bunch of OJ's blood was found at the scene.đ¤
But the LAPD's own blood splatter expert testified that this blood was placed there *after the crime*, and was almost certainly blood *from a medical collection tube*.
Because it did not spatter like real normal blood would have, it didn't separate, and because the blood contained the chemical anti-coagulant found at the bottom of blood sample tubes.đ¤Ą
When that star witness police officer was asked point blank if he had planted the evidence, he invoked the 5th amendment.
For folks outside the US: The 5th amendment is invoked when a person feels that saying anything further could incriminate themselves.
Instead of saying, "No, I did not plant evidence at the OJ Simpson crime scene," he said, "I'm not answering any more questions, because I might incriminate myself."
That star witness was also caught lying under oath during the OJ trial, committing perjury. Specifically, he lied about his racism.
Most people that are convinced that OJ did it, believe that based on evidence found by this one police officer. It really comes down to if you believe that a cop that has admitted to planting evidence in the past, is caught lying under oath during this trial, and pleads the 5th rather than saying "I did not plant evidence here again," could have planted evidence.
Most people that are convinced that OJ did it, believe that based on evidence found by this one police officer.
Is this really true? Was it once true but not true anymore? History of domestic violence against Nicole, her constant fear for her life and her specific fears about OJ killing her, and his behavior after the fact are pretty conclusive. Not in a legal sense of course.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:42 AM on April 11 [7 favorites]
Is this really true? Was it once true but not true anymore? History of domestic violence against Nicole, her constant fear for her life and her specific fears about OJ killing her, and his behavior after the fact are pretty conclusive. Not in a legal sense of course.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:42 AM on April 11 [7 favorites]
It really comes down to if you believe that a cop that has admitted to planting evidence in the past, is caught lying under oath during this trial, and pleads the 5th rather than saying "I did not plant evidence here again," could have planted evidence.
I think that depends on whether you think "it" is "under these circumstances, could a jury have reasonably acquitted under the very high standard for criminal liability" or "did he actually do it."
posted by praemunire at 11:43 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
I think that depends on whether you think "it" is "under these circumstances, could a jury have reasonably acquitted under the very high standard for criminal liability" or "did he actually do it."
posted by praemunire at 11:43 AM on April 11 [2 favorites]
I saw the SUV chase on TV as it happened, and then discovered for the first time -- as the media focused on him incessantly for the next year and a half -- that it was possible for me to become sick of hearing about someone and yearning for him to just go away.
It was, unfortunately, not the last time.
posted by Quindar Beep at 11:51 AM on April 11 [8 favorites]
It was, unfortunately, not the last time.
posted by Quindar Beep at 11:51 AM on April 11 [8 favorites]
His name remains on the Buffalo Bills Wall of Fame. I haven't heard anything about the plans for the WoF in the new stadium but I would not be surprised if they quietly made some changes. You still see the occasional Simpson jersey at a game, typically on some guy who looks too young to remember the trial, and framed sometimes on the walls of tourist-y bars. Such an embarassment.
I grew up on the same block as the stadium where he played; my elementary school is the one that lets kids out early when there's a Monday night game because of the traffic. It was lunchtime when the verdict was read, someone smuggled in a radio and shouted "not guilty!" before a teacher took away the walkman. There was some cheering, some booing, but mostly confusion because what do a bunch of kids know? Anyway I saw the radio smuggler a few months ago taking his elementary school kids to a Bills game. I wonder if he pointed out the Wall of Fame to them?
posted by everybody had matching towels at 12:23 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
I grew up on the same block as the stadium where he played; my elementary school is the one that lets kids out early when there's a Monday night game because of the traffic. It was lunchtime when the verdict was read, someone smuggled in a radio and shouted "not guilty!" before a teacher took away the walkman. There was some cheering, some booing, but mostly confusion because what do a bunch of kids know? Anyway I saw the radio smuggler a few months ago taking his elementary school kids to a Bills game. I wonder if he pointed out the Wall of Fame to them?
posted by everybody had matching towels at 12:23 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I am mainly trying to come to terms with the fact that the OJ Trial was 30 years ago.
posted by briank at 12:28 PM on April 11 [29 favorites]
posted by briank at 12:28 PM on April 11 [29 favorites]
As a white person, the entire thing taught me something about how a lot of the Black community feels - angry, frustrated, unheard. I'm still listening, because it's a lesson that American whites really have trouble with.
posted by theora55 at 12:29 PM on April 11 [18 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 12:29 PM on April 11 [18 favorites]
Will they get a white bronco for his funeral procession?
Here's hoping it's white Broncos all the way down, as they say.
posted by Rash at 12:53 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
Here's hoping it's white Broncos all the way down, as they say.
posted by Rash at 12:53 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
Remember the slow white suv LA chase?
I was at a math camp when it happened and we all found out about it when we got the newspaper the next day. We didn't realize how big of a deal it was until we got back home and all the adults were talking about it. On the one hand I feel like I missed a big cultural touchstone but on the other it's all just media sensationalism. There were probably more newsworthy things happening at that time but we all got the white Bronco instead.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:09 PM on April 11
I was at a math camp when it happened and we all found out about it when we got the newspaper the next day. We didn't realize how big of a deal it was until we got back home and all the adults were talking about it. On the one hand I feel like I missed a big cultural touchstone but on the other it's all just media sensationalism. There were probably more newsworthy things happening at that time but we all got the white Bronco instead.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:09 PM on April 11
He can rest in peace knowing that his wife's murderer is dead.
posted by schyler523 at 1:12 PM on April 11 [16 favorites]
posted by schyler523 at 1:12 PM on April 11 [16 favorites]
the onion does what the onion does
posted by i used to be someone else at 1:21 PM on April 11 [14 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else at 1:21 PM on April 11 [14 favorites]
Just a thought today for his four surviving children, particularly his two children with Nicole. I hope they are able to find peace.
posted by anastasiav at 1:39 PM on April 11 [11 favorites]
posted by anastasiav at 1:39 PM on April 11 [11 favorites]
It's amazing we're beanplating the OJ simpson trial after all these years. It's true that one of the detectives (insanely!) took the blood to the scene. Whether or not they planted that evidence in the home, *Ron Goldman's blood was in Simpson's Bronco*, and as far as I know there is no basis to argue that the police planted or had a chance to plant evidence in the car.
posted by dis_integration at 2:22 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 2:22 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
But mostly it proves how racism undermines justice.
The End.
this should be on the man's gravestone, this is the only lesson to take from the murders. If you are looking for more than that, ask yourself why
posted by elkevelvet at 2:23 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
The End.
this should be on the man's gravestone, this is the only lesson to take from the murders. If you are looking for more than that, ask yourself why
posted by elkevelvet at 2:23 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
MisantropicPainforest no that's a REALLY unfortunate typo. I meant to write that the LAPD framed the right guy and didn't even notice I'd messed up so badly.
I think OJ did it and I think the LAPD screwed up a fairly easy prosecution by falsifying evidence, tampering with the crime scene and basically framing the guilty person. So it was right and proper for him to be acquitted, you don't let cops frame someone even if you think they're guilty.
posted by sotonohito at 2:26 PM on April 11 [11 favorites]
I think OJ did it and I think the LAPD screwed up a fairly easy prosecution by falsifying evidence, tampering with the crime scene and basically framing the guilty person. So it was right and proper for him to be acquitted, you don't let cops frame someone even if you think they're guilty.
posted by sotonohito at 2:26 PM on April 11 [11 favorites]
Jalopnik had a great lede - Ford Bronco Sport, OJ Simpson Recalled On Same Day.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:43 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:43 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
The prosecution fucked up the criminal trial and the defense raised plenty of reasonable doubt, but the evidence in both the criminal and civil trial, plus things that weren't in the trial show he did it.
Simpson had cuts on his left hand the day of the murders. In an interview with LAPD detectives Philip Vannatter and Thomas Lange on June 13, 1994, Simpson said his hand was cut and dripping blood before the murders. "I recall bleeding at my house and then I went to the Bronco...I know, I'm the number one target, and now you tell me I've got blood all over the place...it's what I dripped running around trying to leave."
A pathologist testified that the wounds were fingernail gouges and were not caused by glass or a knife. Simpson's account of the injury changed several times:
Nine blood stains were collected from the Bundy crime scene. Simpson's blood matched blood at the scene with 1-in-9.7 billion probability. Eleven DNA samples were collected from the Bronco; they matched the blood of Nicole Brown, Ron Goldman, and O.J. Simpson. Six DNA samples were collected from socks found in Simpson's bedroom, with matches to Simpson and Brown found.
The defense claimed that EDTA in some of Simpson's blood evidence could have come from a vial, and was planted. The prosecution debunked this claim several times in the criminal trial. FBI Special Agent Roger Martz (who was a defense witness) "stated EDTA is also used in food and detergents and not just blood test tubes. Martz demonstrated this by testing some of Nicole Brown's clothing that did not have blood on it and found EDTA was present. Martz then tested his own unpreserved blood and found EDTA was present there as well. Martz then compared EDTA levels in his own unpreserved blood to the evidence samples and showed they were similar."
Bloody footprints made by size-12 Bruno Magli shoes were found by the bodies of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman. Simpson claimed he "would have never worn those ugly-ass shoes" but during the civil trial over 30 photographs of Simpson wearing the shoes were entered into evidence. He wore size 12. Blood drops were found on the left side of the footprints leaving the area; Simpson had a cut on his left hand.
During the famous Bronco chase, Simpson had a fake mustache and goatee, his passport, and a gun. His friend Al Cowlings, who was driving the car, said that Simpson pointed the gun at his own head. This suggests intent to flee and suicidal ideation.
On June 17, Simpson's attorney Robert Kardashian read a statement by Simpson that sounded like a suicide note.
...instead of that blood being taken from where it was drawn from OJ, directly to the lab, that blood was taken *to the crime scene* by the same racist officer that has admitted to planting evidence in the past.
Incorrect. Per Wikipedia, prison nurse Thano Peratis "drew an undocumented amount from Simpson on June 13 at approximately 3:30 pm, sealing it in an envelope, and gave it to [LAPD Detective Philip] Vannatter," who "hand-delivered the sample to criminalist Dennis Fung...Fung's written notes confirm that Vannatter transferred custody of Simpson's blood at 5:30 pm and the envelope was still sealed The blood of both Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown, taken at autopsy by Deputy Medical Examiner Irwin Golden, was booked immediately into evidence by Detective Vannatter. Detective Mark Fuhrman never had custody of any of the reference blood." The Bronco was impounded before Vannatter's arrival at Simpson's house and wasn't even there.
Most people that are convinced that OJ did it, believe that based on evidence found by this one police officer.
Also incorrect. Evidence was collected by several different people. I do think Fuhrman may have planted the glove at Simpson's house.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:40 PM on April 11 [24 favorites]
Simpson had cuts on his left hand the day of the murders. In an interview with LAPD detectives Philip Vannatter and Thomas Lange on June 13, 1994, Simpson said his hand was cut and dripping blood before the murders. "I recall bleeding at my house and then I went to the Bronco...I know, I'm the number one target, and now you tell me I've got blood all over the place...it's what I dripped running around trying to leave."
A pathologist testified that the wounds were fingernail gouges and were not caused by glass or a knife. Simpson's account of the injury changed several times:
He told the police that he could not remember how he injured it, that he had perhaps done so in his rush to get out of his house and catch his flight to Chicago on the night of the murders. Then he said that after being informed of Nicole Brown Simpson's death while in his hotel in Chicago [where he flew after the murders], he threw a glass and that injured his hand â or re-injured it, as the defense would later say.In the criminal trial the defense claimed that 30 drops, or 1.5 milliliters, were missing from a vial of Simpson's blood. Wikipedia has a detailed, well-sourced article on DNA evidence in the O. J. Simpson murder case (summarized below). 61 drops of blood were presented at trial.
Nine blood stains were collected from the Bundy crime scene. Simpson's blood matched blood at the scene with 1-in-9.7 billion probability. Eleven DNA samples were collected from the Bronco; they matched the blood of Nicole Brown, Ron Goldman, and O.J. Simpson. Six DNA samples were collected from socks found in Simpson's bedroom, with matches to Simpson and Brown found.
The defense claimed that EDTA in some of Simpson's blood evidence could have come from a vial, and was planted. The prosecution debunked this claim several times in the criminal trial. FBI Special Agent Roger Martz (who was a defense witness) "stated EDTA is also used in food and detergents and not just blood test tubes. Martz demonstrated this by testing some of Nicole Brown's clothing that did not have blood on it and found EDTA was present. Martz then tested his own unpreserved blood and found EDTA was present there as well. Martz then compared EDTA levels in his own unpreserved blood to the evidence samples and showed they were similar."
Bloody footprints made by size-12 Bruno Magli shoes were found by the bodies of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman. Simpson claimed he "would have never worn those ugly-ass shoes" but during the civil trial over 30 photographs of Simpson wearing the shoes were entered into evidence. He wore size 12. Blood drops were found on the left side of the footprints leaving the area; Simpson had a cut on his left hand.
During the famous Bronco chase, Simpson had a fake mustache and goatee, his passport, and a gun. His friend Al Cowlings, who was driving the car, said that Simpson pointed the gun at his own head. This suggests intent to flee and suicidal ideation.
On June 17, Simpson's attorney Robert Kardashian read a statement by Simpson that sounded like a suicide note.
Don't feel sorry for me. I've had a great life, great friends. Please think of the real O.J. and not this lost person.The prosecution didn't use his June 14 statement to police, the Bronco chase, or his "suicide note" during the trial. They fucked up, but he did it.
Thanks for making my life special. I hope I helped yours.
Peace and love, O.J.
...instead of that blood being taken from where it was drawn from OJ, directly to the lab, that blood was taken *to the crime scene* by the same racist officer that has admitted to planting evidence in the past.
Incorrect. Per Wikipedia, prison nurse Thano Peratis "drew an undocumented amount from Simpson on June 13 at approximately 3:30 pm, sealing it in an envelope, and gave it to [LAPD Detective Philip] Vannatter," who "hand-delivered the sample to criminalist Dennis Fung...Fung's written notes confirm that Vannatter transferred custody of Simpson's blood at 5:30 pm and the envelope was still sealed The blood of both Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown, taken at autopsy by Deputy Medical Examiner Irwin Golden, was booked immediately into evidence by Detective Vannatter. Detective Mark Fuhrman never had custody of any of the reference blood." The Bronco was impounded before Vannatter's arrival at Simpson's house and wasn't even there.
Most people that are convinced that OJ did it, believe that based on evidence found by this one police officer.
Also incorrect. Evidence was collected by several different people. I do think Fuhrman may have planted the glove at Simpson's house.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:40 PM on April 11 [24 favorites]
On a Friday in 94 I travelled out of town to hang with my brother in the suburbs and party (get drunk, he doesn't get high). We watched TNG (2/26 Jem'Hadar, quite interesting) & X-Files (I think it was 1/23 but the time doesn't quite match?). Then we just played music on the stereo and flipped channels (with the sound off) to find a movie to watch, and wondered why they all just showed a white truck driving around? We felt that television as we knew it was dumb, and we just played more music, drank, and crashed.
posted by ovvl at 6:02 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
posted by ovvl at 6:02 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
AC(AOJ)AB.
posted by lock robster at 6:19 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
posted by lock robster at 6:19 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
As a mental exercise, and without suggesting there is any single "correct" way of contextualising complicated high-profile cases, try viewing the OJ verdict and aftermath within the continuity of famous men being acquitted (or never even charged) for the abuse and/or murder of their wives and girlfriends, and of the diehard defenders of these men remaining outraged on their behalf and disparaging their victims for years afterward.
There was never any legitimate reason for anyone of any background to celebrate his acquittal, and any suggestion to the contrary should be viewed with suspicion.
But, like others, I will leave dots for Brown and Goldman, fittingly like pebbles on a grave signalling that they are remembered.
. .
posted by seraphine at 6:19 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
There was never any legitimate reason for anyone of any background to celebrate his acquittal, and any suggestion to the contrary should be viewed with suspicion.
But, like others, I will leave dots for Brown and Goldman, fittingly like pebbles on a grave signalling that they are remembered.
. .
posted by seraphine at 6:19 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
I typically refrain from commenting on the trial outcome. My understanding has always been that, for many, Blackstone's ratio shrinks to less than 1 whenever the defendant has dark skin. And I want no part of that ickiness. Mark Furhman was such a transparently dirty cop, I can't fault anybody for finding reasonable doubt in any case he touched, and evidently it only took a few hours for the jurors in the case to do so.
That said, I did read this quote in the NY Times obituary and spit my coffee out:
"He did not pretend to be a serious actor. 'Iâm a realist,' he said. 'No matter how many acting lessons I took, the public just wouldnât buy me as Othello.'â
The quote is from the 70s, apparently, and the reason for referencing Othello is obviously because of skin tone. But oh man... of all the characters in Shakespeare's plays, he picked the one who murdered his wife!
posted by dsword at 7:00 PM on April 11 [9 favorites]
That said, I did read this quote in the NY Times obituary and spit my coffee out:
"He did not pretend to be a serious actor. 'Iâm a realist,' he said. 'No matter how many acting lessons I took, the public just wouldnât buy me as Othello.'â
The quote is from the 70s, apparently, and the reason for referencing Othello is obviously because of skin tone. But oh man... of all the characters in Shakespeare's plays, he picked the one who murdered his wife!
posted by dsword at 7:00 PM on April 11 [9 favorites]
As a mental exercise, and without suggesting there is any single "correct" way of contextualising complicated high-profile cases, try viewing the OJ verdict and aftermath within the continuity of famous men being acquitted (or never even charged) for the abuse and/or murder of their wives and girlfriends, and of the diehard defenders of these men remaining outraged on their behalf and disparaging their victims for years afterward.
There was never any legitimate reason for anyone of any background to celebrate his acquittal, and any suggestion to the contrary should be viewed with suspicion.
I'm sorry, but "don't treat this as X" almost always is a giveaway that you are about to do X, and this is no exception - you're saying that you're not suggesting that there is any one "correct" way to read this case, before outright stating that there is. I recommend you read the thread linked in this post, as it does an excellent job explaining why the Black community was right in celebrating the acquittal - because it showed that our justice system was not completely corrupted by bigotry, and that (even if it might take the benefits of wealth in our society) it is possible for a Black man to hold the bigotry within the legal system to account - and that does, in fact have value and is worth cheering for.
It also points out that doing so does not mean that the people are in turn arguing that OJ was in fact innocent, and that it is possible to believe - as many people have stated - that the LAPD "framed a guilty man", and as such are the ones to hold accountable for the failure of justice to be served.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:24 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
There was never any legitimate reason for anyone of any background to celebrate his acquittal, and any suggestion to the contrary should be viewed with suspicion.
I'm sorry, but "don't treat this as X" almost always is a giveaway that you are about to do X, and this is no exception - you're saying that you're not suggesting that there is any one "correct" way to read this case, before outright stating that there is. I recommend you read the thread linked in this post, as it does an excellent job explaining why the Black community was right in celebrating the acquittal - because it showed that our justice system was not completely corrupted by bigotry, and that (even if it might take the benefits of wealth in our society) it is possible for a Black man to hold the bigotry within the legal system to account - and that does, in fact have value and is worth cheering for.
It also points out that doing so does not mean that the people are in turn arguing that OJ was in fact innocent, and that it is possible to believe - as many people have stated - that the LAPD "framed a guilty man", and as such are the ones to hold accountable for the failure of justice to be served.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:24 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
why the Black community was right in celebrating the acquittal
I just can't agree with this, even stipulating that there was one "Black community" reaction to the acquittal, which from my observations there was not. Someone who plainly had committed murder went free. That is not something to celebrate, even if it was a defensible verdict in light of the egregious police misconduct. OJ's acquittal didn't get the cops or prosecutors involved in trouble (OK, Fuhrman got less than three years' probation for perjury). It didn't change laws or attitudes one whit to improve the lot of defendants generally or Black defendants in particular. It just got a murderer off, and if you value the symbolism of "if you're rich enough, even a Black man can kill with impunity!" over the innocent dead and their loved ones, your priorities are messed up. I get having some mixed feelings. I get making the observation. As a lawyer, I may not quite admire Cochran, but I respect the work he did in creating reasonable doubt for his client--it's what he was supposed to do. But celebrating? No. There are verdicts that are necessary but don't actually advance the cause of justice.
posted by praemunire at 9:59 PM on April 11 [13 favorites]
I just can't agree with this, even stipulating that there was one "Black community" reaction to the acquittal, which from my observations there was not. Someone who plainly had committed murder went free. That is not something to celebrate, even if it was a defensible verdict in light of the egregious police misconduct. OJ's acquittal didn't get the cops or prosecutors involved in trouble (OK, Fuhrman got less than three years' probation for perjury). It didn't change laws or attitudes one whit to improve the lot of defendants generally or Black defendants in particular. It just got a murderer off, and if you value the symbolism of "if you're rich enough, even a Black man can kill with impunity!" over the innocent dead and their loved ones, your priorities are messed up. I get having some mixed feelings. I get making the observation. As a lawyer, I may not quite admire Cochran, but I respect the work he did in creating reasonable doubt for his client--it's what he was supposed to do. But celebrating? No. There are verdicts that are necessary but don't actually advance the cause of justice.
posted by praemunire at 9:59 PM on April 11 [13 favorites]
In fact, I said what I meant. Though in my attempt to be brief in hopes of avoiding the appearance of inappropriately dwelling on any one aspect I omitted what was clearly important context.
My previous message was written as direct response to that thread being linked to and commented on multiple times here, having read and fully understood it, and having endured a lifetime of hearing countless versions of the same narrative regarding various subjects, including the men of my own violently oppressed ethnic minority.
Speaking only for myself: I am wholly unwilling to view a rich and/or wealthy person who happens to share a similar background to me escaping justice by virtue of their wealth and/or fame as any manner of collective victory for my people/community.
I will end this awkwardly because I don't know what else I can say without it seeming like I intend to instigate or prolong any manner of argument or derail here.
posted by seraphine at 10:11 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
My previous message was written as direct response to that thread being linked to and commented on multiple times here, having read and fully understood it, and having endured a lifetime of hearing countless versions of the same narrative regarding various subjects, including the men of my own violently oppressed ethnic minority.
Speaking only for myself: I am wholly unwilling to view a rich and/or wealthy person who happens to share a similar background to me escaping justice by virtue of their wealth and/or fame as any manner of collective victory for my people/community.
I will end this awkwardly because I don't know what else I can say without it seeming like I intend to instigate or prolong any manner of argument or derail here.
posted by seraphine at 10:11 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
'No matter how many acting lessons I took, the public just wouldnât buy me as Othello.'â
I guess one jury didn't buy him as Othello, either.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:12 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
I guess one jury didn't buy him as Othello, either.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:12 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
It just got a murderer off, and if you value the symbolism of "if you're rich enough, even a Black man can kill with impunity!" over the innocent dead and their loved ones, your priorities are messed up.
Nobody's making that claim, so you can put the strawman down, thanks. Yes, it fucking sucks that a man who clearly did kill his wife and her new partner wound up being acquitted for the crime - but it would have been even worse had he been convicted after he had been so blatantly framed for a crime he did commit, because it would have meant, as Okereke points out, that "it would show that justice just does not apply for Black folk." And it is that point - that the legal system is not so corrupted that it will completely turn a blind eye to blatant injustice and racism - that is worth noting.
In fact, I'd argue that all those things that you lament never happened - holding the legal system accountable, changing attitudes and pushing to fix laws with regards to defendants - didn't happen because the takeaway - especially among white people - was exactly what you said: "a murderer got off" instead of "what should have been a strong case was fatally corrupted by systemic racism." It's also worth noting that what many people claim is a bedrock principle of justice - "better a hundred guilty individuals go free than one innocent be punished" - is what the Simpson acquittal put to the test, and the response to it showed how little people actually believe in that principle when push comes to shove.
If we want to advance justice, one thing we need to do is to drive a stake through the foul heart of the statement "they got off on a technicality." Because those "technicalities" exist for a reason, and actually acknowledging why that is - and holding the system accountable against its own rules and principles - does advance the cause of justice, at least in my view.
Speaking only for myself: I am wholly unwilling to view a rich and/or wealthy person who happens to share a similar background to me escaping justice by virtue of their wealth and/or fame as any manner of collective victory for my people/community.
To which I will point out that a) given the details of the case - and in particular how the racism within the LAPD allowed the case to be fatally tainted - convicting Simpson would not have been just either; and b) as stated above, the framing of people holding the system accountable to its rules and principles as "escaping justice" is - at least to me - corrosive to the actual pursuit of justice.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:58 PM on April 11 [12 favorites]
Nobody's making that claim, so you can put the strawman down, thanks. Yes, it fucking sucks that a man who clearly did kill his wife and her new partner wound up being acquitted for the crime - but it would have been even worse had he been convicted after he had been so blatantly framed for a crime he did commit, because it would have meant, as Okereke points out, that "it would show that justice just does not apply for Black folk." And it is that point - that the legal system is not so corrupted that it will completely turn a blind eye to blatant injustice and racism - that is worth noting.
In fact, I'd argue that all those things that you lament never happened - holding the legal system accountable, changing attitudes and pushing to fix laws with regards to defendants - didn't happen because the takeaway - especially among white people - was exactly what you said: "a murderer got off" instead of "what should have been a strong case was fatally corrupted by systemic racism." It's also worth noting that what many people claim is a bedrock principle of justice - "better a hundred guilty individuals go free than one innocent be punished" - is what the Simpson acquittal put to the test, and the response to it showed how little people actually believe in that principle when push comes to shove.
If we want to advance justice, one thing we need to do is to drive a stake through the foul heart of the statement "they got off on a technicality." Because those "technicalities" exist for a reason, and actually acknowledging why that is - and holding the system accountable against its own rules and principles - does advance the cause of justice, at least in my view.
Speaking only for myself: I am wholly unwilling to view a rich and/or wealthy person who happens to share a similar background to me escaping justice by virtue of their wealth and/or fame as any manner of collective victory for my people/community.
To which I will point out that a) given the details of the case - and in particular how the racism within the LAPD allowed the case to be fatally tainted - convicting Simpson would not have been just either; and b) as stated above, the framing of people holding the system accountable to its rules and principles as "escaping justice" is - at least to me - corrosive to the actual pursuit of justice.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:58 PM on April 11 [12 favorites]
And it is that point - that the legal system is not so corrupted that it will completely turn a blind eye to blatant injustice and racism - that is worth noting.
It's not a win, or even really new, if the correct outcome is reached through money and celebrity and the atmosphere of spectacle. That's just another form of perversion of justice. The exact same situation, with a poor, obscure black man, he goes to jail. I understand that there's a certain satisfaction in the idea that someone in your marginalized group achieved that much power, but in the end there's nothing to be happy about here, especially since in the end your marginalized group will remain disproportionately excluded from that power. That's not a straw man even if you don't care for how directly I phrased it.
one thing we need to do is to drive a stake through the foul heart of the statement "they got off on a technicality."
A statement that I nowhere made, and that I don't think anyone has made here, because it's not even what is usually meant by that statement (e.g., key evidence being excluded because it was obtained through an illegal search). This guy got off because he got the benefit of the doubt for being rich and famous and his expensive lawyer simultaneously did a good job of eliciting some damaging evidence and turned the trial into a spectacle. His acquittal was a defensible verdict based on what the jury heard, but it represented a tragic malfunction of the system overall.
It's also worth noting that what many people claim is a bedrock principle of justice - "better a hundred guilty individuals go free than one innocent be punished" - is what the Simpson acquittal put to the test, and the response to it showed how little people actually believe in that principle when push comes to shove.
This is just silly. When lawyers (again, like me) say that, they mean generally that the burden of proof should be appropriately high and the testing of the evidence be sufficiently rigorous to make sure it is actually met. The goal is not actually to generate hundreds of guilty people who go free. It's not a victory for this principle if, say, guilty people bribe a judge to get off. Or if rich celebrities get off because people worship them. Or if the whole thing is such a circus that the jury doesn't handle their responsibilities properly because it all seems like a game or a dream to them. Or if the cops handle things so incompetently and/or corruptly that the truth seems unreachable to the jury. But--even if you want to call it a victory, you don't celebrate the idea of guilty people going free. You accept it as a grim necessity to protect the liberty of the innocent.
I mean, this wasn't a victimless crime. Nicole Brown's kids with OJ are black. Would you like to tell them that they should celebrate their mom's murderer going free as a victory "for the Black community?"
posted by praemunire at 9:16 AM on April 12 [8 favorites]
It's not a win, or even really new, if the correct outcome is reached through money and celebrity and the atmosphere of spectacle. That's just another form of perversion of justice. The exact same situation, with a poor, obscure black man, he goes to jail. I understand that there's a certain satisfaction in the idea that someone in your marginalized group achieved that much power, but in the end there's nothing to be happy about here, especially since in the end your marginalized group will remain disproportionately excluded from that power. That's not a straw man even if you don't care for how directly I phrased it.
one thing we need to do is to drive a stake through the foul heart of the statement "they got off on a technicality."
A statement that I nowhere made, and that I don't think anyone has made here, because it's not even what is usually meant by that statement (e.g., key evidence being excluded because it was obtained through an illegal search). This guy got off because he got the benefit of the doubt for being rich and famous and his expensive lawyer simultaneously did a good job of eliciting some damaging evidence and turned the trial into a spectacle. His acquittal was a defensible verdict based on what the jury heard, but it represented a tragic malfunction of the system overall.
It's also worth noting that what many people claim is a bedrock principle of justice - "better a hundred guilty individuals go free than one innocent be punished" - is what the Simpson acquittal put to the test, and the response to it showed how little people actually believe in that principle when push comes to shove.
This is just silly. When lawyers (again, like me) say that, they mean generally that the burden of proof should be appropriately high and the testing of the evidence be sufficiently rigorous to make sure it is actually met. The goal is not actually to generate hundreds of guilty people who go free. It's not a victory for this principle if, say, guilty people bribe a judge to get off. Or if rich celebrities get off because people worship them. Or if the whole thing is such a circus that the jury doesn't handle their responsibilities properly because it all seems like a game or a dream to them. Or if the cops handle things so incompetently and/or corruptly that the truth seems unreachable to the jury. But--even if you want to call it a victory, you don't celebrate the idea of guilty people going free. You accept it as a grim necessity to protect the liberty of the innocent.
I mean, this wasn't a victimless crime. Nicole Brown's kids with OJ are black. Would you like to tell them that they should celebrate their mom's murderer going free as a victory "for the Black community?"
posted by praemunire at 9:16 AM on April 12 [8 favorites]
I listened to the slow chase while driving from Fresno, California, to Oregon. I watched the aftermath from a motel room in North Bend and much of the trial from my home in Miramonte, California. Simpson was one of the clown acts in the Great American Circus,
I'm not particularly glad to know that he died. I probably would have voted to convict him of the murders had I been on the Jury. Cochran, the head clown on the Dream Team, seemed to me to be a showboating asshole. In later years, O.J. seemed to have turned into a thug. At least he served time for that. He died of cancer in hospice care, surrounded by his children and grandchildren. Fuck cancer and all the bags of poison a cancer patient gets pumped into their body before they finally get too weak to struggle.
The article mentions that the Goldmans are "pouncing on" the remains of Simpson's estate. Simpson's estate had nothing to do with his crimes, and neither did his children or grandchildren. The Goldmans could amass some serious karma by backing off and leaving them in peace.
The Great American Circus is still in full swing.
posted by mule98J at 10:04 AM on April 12 [2 favorites]
I'm not particularly glad to know that he died. I probably would have voted to convict him of the murders had I been on the Jury. Cochran, the head clown on the Dream Team, seemed to me to be a showboating asshole. In later years, O.J. seemed to have turned into a thug. At least he served time for that. He died of cancer in hospice care, surrounded by his children and grandchildren. Fuck cancer and all the bags of poison a cancer patient gets pumped into their body before they finally get too weak to struggle.
The article mentions that the Goldmans are "pouncing on" the remains of Simpson's estate. Simpson's estate had nothing to do with his crimes, and neither did his children or grandchildren. The Goldmans could amass some serious karma by backing off and leaving them in peace.
The Great American Circus is still in full swing.
posted by mule98J at 10:04 AM on April 12 [2 favorites]
"I've been waiting 29 years to tell this story", says Nicole Minet.
"Now that he's dead (may he burn in hell) I have a story that I signed an NDA for that is no longer valid. I was a junior at USC working in Topping Student Center on campus in 1995. I was an administrative assistant to the President of Student Affairs that semester in the work/study program.
In early 1995, Robert Shapiro and Robert Kardashian (USC Alumni) walked up to my desk and said they had an appt with my boss. I was studying to be a criminal defense lawyer with a dual major in PoliSci and International Relations so I knew who they were. The meeting lasted about 30 mins.
After they left I looked at my boss like wtf was that all about!? He walked me outside and we sat by the old sprawling big tree outside Topping and my boss lit a cigarette for the first time in years and told me I had to sign an NDA because I could confirm OJ's lawyers were there for a meeting. Then he told me what the meeting was about.
Before OJ could graduate from USC, the university paid off two families of two blonde white girls that he had dated and battered. They had both gone to the LAPD to report it. One claimed he also sexually assaulted her in their relationship. The school had a vested interest in OJ going far in football and protected him at all costs. OJ had been in custody for 6 months and lawyers were in the discovery process for the trial and OJ's friend Robert Kardashian, who knew OJ from also being a student at USC, thought it would be best if those stories never saw the light of day. So a large check was written, given to my boss, and they left. I'll never forget holding that check.
Now, did you hear about this before now? Nope. That's how much power money enables."
posted by seraphine at 3:32 PM on April 12 [18 favorites]
"Now that he's dead (may he burn in hell) I have a story that I signed an NDA for that is no longer valid. I was a junior at USC working in Topping Student Center on campus in 1995. I was an administrative assistant to the President of Student Affairs that semester in the work/study program.
In early 1995, Robert Shapiro and Robert Kardashian (USC Alumni) walked up to my desk and said they had an appt with my boss. I was studying to be a criminal defense lawyer with a dual major in PoliSci and International Relations so I knew who they were. The meeting lasted about 30 mins.
After they left I looked at my boss like wtf was that all about!? He walked me outside and we sat by the old sprawling big tree outside Topping and my boss lit a cigarette for the first time in years and told me I had to sign an NDA because I could confirm OJ's lawyers were there for a meeting. Then he told me what the meeting was about.
Before OJ could graduate from USC, the university paid off two families of two blonde white girls that he had dated and battered. They had both gone to the LAPD to report it. One claimed he also sexually assaulted her in their relationship. The school had a vested interest in OJ going far in football and protected him at all costs. OJ had been in custody for 6 months and lawyers were in the discovery process for the trial and OJ's friend Robert Kardashian, who knew OJ from also being a student at USC, thought it would be best if those stories never saw the light of day. So a large check was written, given to my boss, and they left. I'll never forget holding that check.
Now, did you hear about this before now? Nope. That's how much power money enables."
posted by seraphine at 3:32 PM on April 12 [18 favorites]
Back during the OJ trial I was part of a comedy group. We had a musical number regarding OJ. I played a psychiatrist for the defense team. My part went:
My name is Shrink Rap and my couch is a trip.
I wear a fuzzy beard and a Freudian slip.
OJ's not guilty, I'm here to declare
That guilt's passĂŠ, the blues take you nowhere.
He's Oedipally challenged and believe me, sucker,
That Oedipus dude was one mother fucker.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:41 AM on April 13 [1 favorite]
My name is Shrink Rap and my couch is a trip.
I wear a fuzzy beard and a Freudian slip.
OJ's not guilty, I'm here to declare
That guilt's passĂŠ, the blues take you nowhere.
He's Oedipally challenged and believe me, sucker,
That Oedipus dude was one mother fucker.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:41 AM on April 13 [1 favorite]
OJ did it.
This was obvious even at the time to people in his and Nicole's inner circle (her sisters, for example), the prosecutor's office (maybe a little too obvious), and the kinds of people that attend the same dinner parties as Dominic Dunne. Some of the people close to OJ, with a greater (Al Cowlings) or lesser (Bob Kardashian) degree of knowledge, helped him after the fact.
Mark Fuhrman is a racist cop from a racist department, and plenty of people in the LAPD did the kinds of things he's accused of doing. Lange and Vannatter were incompetent starfuckers, because if there's one thing the LAPD likes almost as much as racism, it's giving a soft touch to people with any proximity to money, fame, or power.
The prosecution, by which I mostly mean Marcia Clark, was overconfident at best. I don't know how anyone who was even remotely paying attention didn't realize very quickly what kind of case this was going to be, including and especially Chris Darden. The defense, by which I mostly mean Johnnie Cochran (as people like Carl Douglas point out, Shapiro was a fixer--and I don't think Douglas said it, but Bailey was a washed-up drunk. Dershowitz is Dershowitz, even way back then), was as cynical as it was brilliant.
The media coverage at the time, in hindsight, was pretty terrible. There are a bunch of bad books, most written by someone with an axe to grind. Jeff Toobin's 'The Run of His Life' is probably the best of the lot. Lawrence Schiller and Vince Bugliosi's books aren't terrible--most of the others are. The anthology 'Birth of a Nation'hood' is very good, and didn't get as much attention as it deserved.
'OJ: Made in America' is one of the best documentaries of the last decade or so, and 'June 17, 1994' is a fascinating piece of filmmaking that transcends its '30 for 30' origins. 'American Crime Story' has its flaws, but it tries to tell the stories of nearly everyone involved in a way that's still rare.
As a... let's say person with a longtime interest, the 'You're Wrong About' podcasts about the OJ trial are delicious but also kind of frustrating. The deep dives can be fascinating, but, taken as a whole, I wanted more of an overarching narrative. And an ending.
posted by box at 11:42 AM on April 13 [4 favorites]
This was obvious even at the time to people in his and Nicole's inner circle (her sisters, for example), the prosecutor's office (maybe a little too obvious), and the kinds of people that attend the same dinner parties as Dominic Dunne. Some of the people close to OJ, with a greater (Al Cowlings) or lesser (Bob Kardashian) degree of knowledge, helped him after the fact.
Mark Fuhrman is a racist cop from a racist department, and plenty of people in the LAPD did the kinds of things he's accused of doing. Lange and Vannatter were incompetent starfuckers, because if there's one thing the LAPD likes almost as much as racism, it's giving a soft touch to people with any proximity to money, fame, or power.
The prosecution, by which I mostly mean Marcia Clark, was overconfident at best. I don't know how anyone who was even remotely paying attention didn't realize very quickly what kind of case this was going to be, including and especially Chris Darden. The defense, by which I mostly mean Johnnie Cochran (as people like Carl Douglas point out, Shapiro was a fixer--and I don't think Douglas said it, but Bailey was a washed-up drunk. Dershowitz is Dershowitz, even way back then), was as cynical as it was brilliant.
The media coverage at the time, in hindsight, was pretty terrible. There are a bunch of bad books, most written by someone with an axe to grind. Jeff Toobin's 'The Run of His Life' is probably the best of the lot. Lawrence Schiller and Vince Bugliosi's books aren't terrible--most of the others are. The anthology 'Birth of a Nation'hood' is very good, and didn't get as much attention as it deserved.
'OJ: Made in America' is one of the best documentaries of the last decade or so, and 'June 17, 1994' is a fascinating piece of filmmaking that transcends its '30 for 30' origins. 'American Crime Story' has its flaws, but it tries to tell the stories of nearly everyone involved in a way that's still rare.
As a... let's say person with a longtime interest, the 'You're Wrong About' podcasts about the OJ trial are delicious but also kind of frustrating. The deep dives can be fascinating, but, taken as a whole, I wanted more of an overarching narrative. And an ending.
posted by box at 11:42 AM on April 13 [4 favorites]
When O.J. Simpson âConfessedâ to Murder. About the grotesque book OJ Simpson wrote talking about how he "hypothetically" murdered Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman. Also his 5 hour TV interview about the murders.
Yet, Mr. Simpson spoke during the interview with Ms. Regan as if the murders could have been prevented, had Ms. Brown Simpson only been a more stable person, a better spouse, a more responsible mother.posted by Nelson at 1:51 PM on April 13 [5 favorites]
âHe had zero remorse,â Ms. Regan said. âThe only remorse he had was that she had ruined his life. Because he had to kill her.â ...
âLike it or not, this was his confession,â she said. âIt is a portrait of a sociopath."
I saw a link that the Goldmans got next to nothing out of OJ moneywise like they were ,"supposed" to and with interest the missing amount is up to $114 million or so. Sounds like the main money they did get was the "If I Did It" book.
(Good luck, E.Jean and anyone trying to get that Alex Jones money.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:24 AM on April 14
(Good luck, E.Jean and anyone trying to get that Alex Jones money.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:24 AM on April 14
What Happened to Damages That O.J. Simpson Owed to the Victimsâ Families?
the current amount owed now stands at $114 million...posted by Nelson at 6:29 AM on April 14 [2 favorites]
Mr. Simpson paid so little, he added, âbecause he denied having any sources of income or property from which the judgment could be collected.â
In 2000, Mr. Simpson moved to Florida, where under state law his home could not be seized by creditors, and he continued to receive pensions from the N.F.L., the Screen Actors Guild and other sources, about $400,000 a year, which were also protected from seizure. ...
... [Simpson's estate lawyer] said he would pay amounts to the Goldman family and others if the advisers concluded that they were required. But he added that if there was a way to deal legally with the estate with the Goldmans getting nothing, that âwill be the optionâ he chooses.
âThat one time in 1994 when white folks had a point...â [13:12]âF. D. Signifier, Signified B Sides, 13 April 2024
âThe whitewashing of O.J. Simpson,â Michael Harriot, The Grio, 12 April 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 9:34 AM on April 15
âThe whitewashing of O.J. Simpson,â Michael Harriot, The Grio, 12 April 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 9:34 AM on April 15
OJ Simpson The Lost Confession? Simpson delivers a âhypotheticalâ story based on his book If I Did It about how he and âCharlieâ got into an argument with Nicole Brown, who somehow hurt herself and Simpson can't remember anything after Nicole âsomehow hurt herselfâ and he took the knife from âCharlie.â
In 1996 Simpson did a video tour of his house to explain his innocence. It's less exonerating than he seems to think.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:18 PM on April 15
In 1996 Simpson did a video tour of his house to explain his innocence. It's less exonerating than he seems to think.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:18 PM on April 15
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posted by riruro at 7:45 AM on April 11