No Tech for Apartheid organizers fired
April 19, 2024 4:13 AM Subscribe
In an internal memo Wednesday, Google announced the firing of 28 employees in connection to a protest of Project Nimbus. The previous day inside Google offices in New York and California, a couple dozen employees staged a sit-in to bring awareness to the $1.2 billion Israeli government contract. It began in 2021 and provides cloud computing services to Israel—specifically, we’ve recently learned, to the Israeli Ministry of Defense—and though it has faced internal criticism since its inception, efforts against it have naturally intensified since October 7th.
The memo from Google’s global head of security Chris Rackow was ominous. “If you’re one of the few who are tempted to think we’re going to overlook conduct that violates our policies,” he wrote to the company’s thousands of employees, “think again.” From Marisa Kabas of The Handbasket.
I was fortunate to speak with Hasan Ibraheem, one of the employees fired as part of the protest and an organizer with No Tech For Apartheid, Thursday afternoon by phone. It was shortly after news broke that more than 100 Columbia students had been arrested by police in riot gear for a pro-Palestine protest. Ibraheem is a Syria-born, West Virginia-raised 23-year-old who worked at Google for one year and eight months. It was his very first job out of college. I asked him about getting arrested, how he found out he got fired, and his personal connection to this cause.
(Ibraheem):...This campaign has been going on for about three years now, ever since Project Nimbus was created. And throughout those three years, we had tried basically every avenue possible to try and get the executives to talk to us, at least have some sort of conversation with us, sent petitions. We've exhausted every avenue that we could think of possible. And during that time, we've been building up our supporters in Google—everyone who's become part of No Tech For Apartheid. And then we wanted to do the strongest action we could possibly do because we have been ignored for three years. They wouldn't even give a statement or a conversation with us. So we wanted to make it impossible for them to ignore us.
Relatedly, last week Billy Perrigo of Time reported thusly: Google provides cloud computing services to the Israeli Ministry of Defense, and the tech giant has negotiated deepening its partnership during Israel’s war in Gaza, a company document viewed by TIME shows.
The Israeli Ministry of Defense, according to the document, has its own “landing zone” into Google Cloud—a secure entry point to Google-provided computing infrastructure, which would allow the ministry to store and process data, and access AI services.
More coverage from The Register, The Verge, and Democracy Now.
Previously in MetaFilter:
Comment 1 and comment 2, both from cendawanita in ‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza, a recent post from brundlefly.
I was fortunate to speak with Hasan Ibraheem, one of the employees fired as part of the protest and an organizer with No Tech For Apartheid, Thursday afternoon by phone. It was shortly after news broke that more than 100 Columbia students had been arrested by police in riot gear for a pro-Palestine protest. Ibraheem is a Syria-born, West Virginia-raised 23-year-old who worked at Google for one year and eight months. It was his very first job out of college. I asked him about getting arrested, how he found out he got fired, and his personal connection to this cause.
(Ibraheem):...This campaign has been going on for about three years now, ever since Project Nimbus was created. And throughout those three years, we had tried basically every avenue possible to try and get the executives to talk to us, at least have some sort of conversation with us, sent petitions. We've exhausted every avenue that we could think of possible. And during that time, we've been building up our supporters in Google—everyone who's become part of No Tech For Apartheid. And then we wanted to do the strongest action we could possibly do because we have been ignored for three years. They wouldn't even give a statement or a conversation with us. So we wanted to make it impossible for them to ignore us.
Relatedly, last week Billy Perrigo of Time reported thusly: Google provides cloud computing services to the Israeli Ministry of Defense, and the tech giant has negotiated deepening its partnership during Israel’s war in Gaza, a company document viewed by TIME shows.
The Israeli Ministry of Defense, according to the document, has its own “landing zone” into Google Cloud—a secure entry point to Google-provided computing infrastructure, which would allow the ministry to store and process data, and access AI services.
More coverage from The Register, The Verge, and Democracy Now.
Previously in MetaFilter:
Comment 1 and comment 2, both from cendawanita in ‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza, a recent post from brundlefly.
One of my students emailed me this news yesterday, because we've been talking about tech labor and tech ethics in class.
It's good they're seeing the connections.
posted by humbug at 5:10 AM on April 19 [23 favorites]
It's good they're seeing the connections.
posted by humbug at 5:10 AM on April 19 [23 favorites]
Have they formally given up the whole "don't be evil" thing?
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:20 AM on April 19 [11 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:20 AM on April 19 [11 favorites]
Six years ago.
posted by Mitheral at 5:30 AM on April 19 [22 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 5:30 AM on April 19 [22 favorites]
Big tech working hand in hand with fascists to facilitate genocide has been the case as long as either has existed.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 5:38 AM on April 19 [23 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 5:38 AM on April 19 [23 favorites]
Google dropped their "Don't Be Evil" motto, but now they've adopted "IBM Did Nothing Wrong"
posted by AlSweigart at 6:03 AM on April 19 [42 favorites]
posted by AlSweigart at 6:03 AM on April 19 [42 favorites]
Google dropped their "Don't Be Evil" motto
That motto never made it out of beta.
posted by flabdablet at 6:35 AM on April 19 [6 favorites]
That motto never made it out of beta.
posted by flabdablet at 6:35 AM on April 19 [6 favorites]
I loved the PR from Google, basically say it was outside forces that were causing issues. So....uh how did they fire people who don't work for them?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:17 AM on April 19 [13 favorites]
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:17 AM on April 19 [13 favorites]
You really, really have to admire people who are willing to put their livelihood on the line in this way, especially when tech hiring seems to be in a bad place.
There are a lot of connections between the George Floyd uprisings and the present situation, but one of them is that lots of people are mobilizing purely because they hate injustice. That doesn't make their actions better and more moral than someone who is mobilizing because it's their community that's being crushed. It's just interesting - people who are personally unaffected by them see police killings and the atrocities in Gaza in real time on social media and they hate it and they're moved to act, and moved to act sustainedly. I haven't seen anything like this, where there's ongoing dispersed large actions around the US, before recent social media developments - not even the anti-globalization movement was like this.
Two things strike me - first, the typical US media move is failing. It's usually a combination of "YOU don't have standing because YOU aren't directly affected, so shut up" plus "YOU don't have standing because you're selfishly speaking up for yourself instead of being cool-headed and disinterested so YOU ALSO shut up". But right now, everybody has standing.
Second, this is obviously happening because people are able to access information on social media. Watch out for the crack-down, that's what this means. If people are mobilized because they see injustice and they hate it, watch out for the state to shut down their vision.
posted by Frowner at 7:53 AM on April 19 [59 favorites]
There are a lot of connections between the George Floyd uprisings and the present situation, but one of them is that lots of people are mobilizing purely because they hate injustice. That doesn't make their actions better and more moral than someone who is mobilizing because it's their community that's being crushed. It's just interesting - people who are personally unaffected by them see police killings and the atrocities in Gaza in real time on social media and they hate it and they're moved to act, and moved to act sustainedly. I haven't seen anything like this, where there's ongoing dispersed large actions around the US, before recent social media developments - not even the anti-globalization movement was like this.
Two things strike me - first, the typical US media move is failing. It's usually a combination of "YOU don't have standing because YOU aren't directly affected, so shut up" plus "YOU don't have standing because you're selfishly speaking up for yourself instead of being cool-headed and disinterested so YOU ALSO shut up". But right now, everybody has standing.
Second, this is obviously happening because people are able to access information on social media. Watch out for the crack-down, that's what this means. If people are mobilized because they see injustice and they hate it, watch out for the state to shut down their vision.
posted by Frowner at 7:53 AM on April 19 [59 favorites]
I see it more as a Lionel Hutz punctuation addition
"Don't! Be Evil."
posted by Philipschall at 8:02 AM on April 19 [19 favorites]
"Don't! Be Evil."
posted by Philipschall at 8:02 AM on April 19 [19 favorites]
"Working for the Clampdown"
posted by Windopaene at 8:12 AM on April 19 [9 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 8:12 AM on April 19 [9 favorites]
folks who work for google who aren't trying their damnedest to get themselves fired in this way need to think very hard about trying to get themselves fired in this way. history will not look kindly upon google nor those who don't try to get fired.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:38 AM on April 19 [6 favorites]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:38 AM on April 19 [6 favorites]
Another reminder that the only thing a company can give you is money. Whatever you've been told about shared values, mission statements, how we're one big family, etc is a lie. You must be prepared to walk away, sometimes loudly when the company refuses to listen to your ethical concerns. Unfortunately matters of personal finances, health insurance and other obligations can make that incredibly hard. I applaud the courage of these folks to stand up for what they believe in.
posted by interogative mood at 8:43 AM on April 19 [34 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 8:43 AM on April 19 [34 favorites]
hey here's praxis for software developers and other similar members of the aristocracy-of-labor tier: live as cheaply as possible, like seriously cheaply, like, live a lumpenprole life, and put all of the money you get for telling computers what to do in a bank account or somewhere similarly immediately accessible.
if you spend money on stuff you get stuff, but if you stack all your dollars in the bank you get freedom of action.
also don't have kids, don't do it, just say no to kids
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:48 AM on April 19 [19 favorites]
if you spend money on stuff you get stuff, but if you stack all your dollars in the bank you get freedom of action.
also don't have kids, don't do it, just say no to kids
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:48 AM on April 19 [19 favorites]
I'm glad they stood up and got fired, and respect them for this. But I'm not terribly worried about their future job prospects. It's a big black eye for google but if you don't already think they are the baddies, I'm not sure if this is really going to change many minds? Maybe.
Unfortunately google is considered to pay very well, right? And that's exactly how you get employees to not care about working for evil. I don't quite understand how having lots of money makes it easier to not see the blood on your hands, but objectively it seems to work very well. See also the tech bros who aren't getting fired from Amazon.
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:54 AM on April 19 [5 favorites]
Unfortunately google is considered to pay very well, right? And that's exactly how you get employees to not care about working for evil. I don't quite understand how having lots of money makes it easier to not see the blood on your hands, but objectively it seems to work very well. See also the tech bros who aren't getting fired from Amazon.
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:54 AM on April 19 [5 favorites]
"Don't be evil" is constantly misreported as referring to the behavior of the company itself - it was not. It's original context was regarding employee behavior within the company - as in "don't be evil to your colleagues". The reason I'm pedantic about that is that it's also a stupid and revealing motto in that context.
posted by tuffet at 9:15 AM on April 19 [11 favorites]
posted by tuffet at 9:15 AM on April 19 [11 favorites]
It's original context was regarding employee behavior within the company - as in "don't be evil to your colleagues".
I would love to know where you heard this - multiple books I've read on Google and the Search industry cite it as an external facing moral framing - here's a quote from the Wikipedia article on the slogan:
While the official corporate philosophy of Google[10] does not contain the words "Don't be evil", they were included in the prospectus (on Form S-1) of Google's 2004 IPO (a letter from Google's founders, later called the "'Don't Be Evil' manifesto"): "Don't be evil. We believe strongly that in the long term, we will be better served—as shareholders and in all other ways—by a company that does good things for the world even if we forgo some short term gains."[11] The motto is sometimes incorrectly stated as Do no evil.[8][12]
posted by SoundInhabitant at 10:17 AM on April 19 [16 favorites]
I would love to know where you heard this - multiple books I've read on Google and the Search industry cite it as an external facing moral framing - here's a quote from the Wikipedia article on the slogan:
While the official corporate philosophy of Google[10] does not contain the words "Don't be evil", they were included in the prospectus (on Form S-1) of Google's 2004 IPO (a letter from Google's founders, later called the "'Don't Be Evil' manifesto"): "Don't be evil. We believe strongly that in the long term, we will be better served—as shareholders and in all other ways—by a company that does good things for the world even if we forgo some short term gains."[11] The motto is sometimes incorrectly stated as Do no evil.[8][12]
posted by SoundInhabitant at 10:17 AM on April 19 [16 favorites]
The reason I'm pedantic about that is that it's also a stupid and revealing motto in that context.
Socially, I'm three degrees away from Paul Buchheit, who originated the phrase. I'd be very surprised if Paul meant it strictly in the limited (and uncharitable) manner you describe.
posted by AlSweigart at 11:21 AM on April 19 [7 favorites]
Socially, I'm three degrees away from Paul Buchheit, who originated the phrase. I'd be very surprised if Paul meant it strictly in the limited (and uncharitable) manner you describe.
posted by AlSweigart at 11:21 AM on April 19 [7 favorites]
Second, this is obviously happening because people are able to access information on social media. Watch out for the crack-down, that's what this means. If people are mobilized because they see injustice and they hate it, watch out for the state to shut down their vision.
Yeah and this is fully what the attempted TikTok ban is about.
Also wanted to add that while social media is a huge part of why this current moment is possible, another part is decades of leftist anti-Zionist organizing by groups like Jewish Voice for Peace, which really took off in the early 2000s. They were smeared, harassed, abused and in some cases (like Rachel Corrie), murdered but they kept going despite incredibly powerful forces being marshaled against them. There already existed an infrastructure for anti-Zionist organizing because of them and the many, many new folks who have been building knowledge and tactics around this cause over the last six months were able to build on that.
As someone who's been doing Palestinian liberation organizing for a few years and have learned so much from local JVP organizers, it's absolutely astonishing to see this moment happen. The scale has increased but this kind of dehumanization and murder and displacement of Palestinians by Israel has been happening for such a long time. I just assumed people knew and didn't care. But it seems like that's not the case and despite the terrible human cost, it actually makes me feel a lot better about humanity!
posted by lizard2590 at 11:34 AM on April 19 [19 favorites]
Yeah and this is fully what the attempted TikTok ban is about.
Also wanted to add that while social media is a huge part of why this current moment is possible, another part is decades of leftist anti-Zionist organizing by groups like Jewish Voice for Peace, which really took off in the early 2000s. They were smeared, harassed, abused and in some cases (like Rachel Corrie), murdered but they kept going despite incredibly powerful forces being marshaled against them. There already existed an infrastructure for anti-Zionist organizing because of them and the many, many new folks who have been building knowledge and tactics around this cause over the last six months were able to build on that.
As someone who's been doing Palestinian liberation organizing for a few years and have learned so much from local JVP organizers, it's absolutely astonishing to see this moment happen. The scale has increased but this kind of dehumanization and murder and displacement of Palestinians by Israel has been happening for such a long time. I just assumed people knew and didn't care. But it seems like that's not the case and despite the terrible human cost, it actually makes me feel a lot better about humanity!
posted by lizard2590 at 11:34 AM on April 19 [19 favorites]
I find it interesting that 100% of the personnel in the photo are masked. I mean it says something, right? No one is universally masked anymore, so having the whole group all be masked in the photo from Thursday is informative about the group. It reads to me as indicating both a strong sense of community and social responsibility (protecting others/standing together) which really tracks with the reason behind their protest.
I look forward to the inevitable wrongful termination lawsuit.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:45 AM on April 19 [14 favorites]
I look forward to the inevitable wrongful termination lawsuit.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:45 AM on April 19 [14 favorites]
Another reminder that the only thing a company can give you is money
It’s a damn shame if all companies you’ve ever worked for are like this. I hope to retire from where I work now at 43. I don’t look forward to losing that community of great people, but I hope to at least stay in touch with the board game club.
posted by jklaiho at 12:09 PM on April 19
It’s a damn shame if all companies you’ve ever worked for are like this. I hope to retire from where I work now at 43. I don’t look forward to losing that community of great people, but I hope to at least stay in touch with the board game club.
posted by jklaiho at 12:09 PM on April 19
I am curious form the employment lawyers here about
any kind of wrongful termination claim here. I’m skeptical that Google’s lawyers and HR department acted without pretty high confidence that they would prevail against any such claim.
posted by interogative mood at 12:09 PM on April 19 [3 favorites]
any kind of wrongful termination claim here. I’m skeptical that Google’s lawyers and HR department acted without pretty high confidence that they would prevail against any such claim.
posted by interogative mood at 12:09 PM on April 19 [3 favorites]
> I’m skeptical that Google’s lawyers and HR department acted without pretty high confidence that they would prevail against any such claim.
Google can afford to make them wait a long time for a settlement or judgement for the benefit of cowing the rest of the workforce.
As part of the professional–managerial class at a different tech megacorp, I'm trying trying to follow b.l.p.'s advice.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 12:39 PM on April 19 [2 favorites]
Google can afford to make them wait a long time for a settlement or judgement for the benefit of cowing the rest of the workforce.
As part of the professional–managerial class at a different tech megacorp, I'm trying trying to follow b.l.p.'s advice.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 12:39 PM on April 19 [2 favorites]
I don’t look forward to losing that community of great people
The corporation didn't give you the community, it was just the occasion for you to meet those people.
posted by praemunire at 1:42 PM on April 19 [8 favorites]
The corporation didn't give you the community, it was just the occasion for you to meet those people.
posted by praemunire at 1:42 PM on April 19 [8 favorites]
it was just the occasion
I'm more involved with my union and labour organizing than 95% of the people I know or work with, and I can say that the word 'just' in your sentence is doing a lot of work
the reality of our lifetime, and the lifetimes of multiple generations before us, is that most of us need a job to pay bills and some organization is providing that job and hopefully your work also involves a community of sorts and I don't get the semantic play here. Under what other circumstances are we building community? I'm thinking of how most of us live, and forgive me if I'm making too broad of an assumption and most other MeFites are homesteaders who answer to no-one
posted by elkevelvet at 1:48 PM on April 19 [11 favorites]
I'm more involved with my union and labour organizing than 95% of the people I know or work with, and I can say that the word 'just' in your sentence is doing a lot of work
the reality of our lifetime, and the lifetimes of multiple generations before us, is that most of us need a job to pay bills and some organization is providing that job and hopefully your work also involves a community of sorts and I don't get the semantic play here. Under what other circumstances are we building community? I'm thinking of how most of us live, and forgive me if I'm making too broad of an assumption and most other MeFites are homesteaders who answer to no-one
posted by elkevelvet at 1:48 PM on April 19 [11 favorites]
The corporation does not give a shit whether you make a single friend or form any other interpersonal bond. That is not its goal, and if your doing so interferes with profitability, it will gleefully smash up those relationships.
Further, even if its intentions were more benign, the corporation can't "give" you any meaningful relationships. You can direct-deposit dollars; no one can make relationships for you.
posted by praemunire at 2:00 PM on April 19 [11 favorites]
Further, even if its intentions were more benign, the corporation can't "give" you any meaningful relationships. You can direct-deposit dollars; no one can make relationships for you.
posted by praemunire at 2:00 PM on April 19 [11 favorites]
>>The reason I'm pedantic about that is that it's also a stupid and revealing motto in that
>>context.
>Socially, I'm three degrees away from Paul Buchheit, who originated the phrase. I'd be very
>surprised if Paul meant it strictly in the limited (and uncharitable) manner you describe.
I knew Paul Buchheit at that time, as well as many of the other people who were there for it. AlSweigart is correct. It was meant, and widely understood to be meant, to be about product design, not about treatment of co-workers.
posted by Rhedyn at 3:02 PM on April 19 [7 favorites]
>>context.
>Socially, I'm three degrees away from Paul Buchheit, who originated the phrase. I'd be very
>surprised if Paul meant it strictly in the limited (and uncharitable) manner you describe.
I knew Paul Buchheit at that time, as well as many of the other people who were there for it. AlSweigart is correct. It was meant, and widely understood to be meant, to be about product design, not about treatment of co-workers.
posted by Rhedyn at 3:02 PM on April 19 [7 favorites]
1. I reside in a zone of ignorance about such things that may be one or two levels of my cat's awareness. Anyhow, it seems to me that a "wrongful termination" lawsuit should be buried in the body of this post. These employees didn't work anywhere near the echelons that made the deal with Israel. They're getting fired for exposing the use of this program. They are turning to the public because the Google executives didn't think granting them time for a discussion was necessary. Now Google slaps them down as if they were pesky mosquitos.
2. I have read articles about how law enforcement departments use facial recognition to catch bad guys. England and China come to mind, not to mention various places in the good old U.S.A.
3. I'm confident that no way will ever exist to put this particular genie back in the bottle.
4. FIRST DO NO EVIL. Yeah. No. I'm not going there. I'm going to a cold bottle of my favorite porter out to the rocking chair on my front porch and yell at kids who get on my lawn.
posted by mule98J at 3:55 PM on April 19
2. I have read articles about how law enforcement departments use facial recognition to catch bad guys. England and China come to mind, not to mention various places in the good old U.S.A.
3. I'm confident that no way will ever exist to put this particular genie back in the bottle.
4. FIRST DO NO EVIL. Yeah. No. I'm not going there. I'm going to a cold bottle of my favorite porter out to the rocking chair on my front porch and yell at kids who get on my lawn.
posted by mule98J at 3:55 PM on April 19
I’m always entertained by the IM GOING TO PROTEST THE MAN WHO IS AN EVIL OPPRESSOR, followed by the inevitable WAIT THEY OPPRESSED ME? WHAT? I MEAN IM PROTESTING THIS 'ORRIBLE 'ORIBBLE* COMPANY BUT I DONT WANT TO STOP WORKING THERE. (The bennies are great)
*sorry, just felt like a lapse into bad cockney was appropriate.
posted by Galvanic at 4:15 PM on April 19 [2 favorites]
*sorry, just felt like a lapse into bad cockney was appropriate.
posted by Galvanic at 4:15 PM on April 19 [2 favorites]
Further, even if its intentions were more benign, the corporation can't "give" you any meaningful relationships. You can direct-deposit dollars; no one can make relationships for you.
it feels like we are talking past one another. someone observed that they will miss the community they enjoyed when they leave work and you're emphasizing that "the corporation" doesn't give anyone community, I don't think anyone is saying that in the first place.
to reiterate: many of us here are wage slaves. we can't help but create community in the workplace, many of us. it just happens, it's not about the corporation giving or taking anything. I know I will miss aspects of the community I've helped create in my current workplace, when it's my turn to go. I don't see how this needs a corrective response
posted by elkevelvet at 4:16 PM on April 19 [15 favorites]
it feels like we are talking past one another. someone observed that they will miss the community they enjoyed when they leave work and you're emphasizing that "the corporation" doesn't give anyone community, I don't think anyone is saying that in the first place.
to reiterate: many of us here are wage slaves. we can't help but create community in the workplace, many of us. it just happens, it's not about the corporation giving or taking anything. I know I will miss aspects of the community I've helped create in my current workplace, when it's my turn to go. I don't see how this needs a corrective response
posted by elkevelvet at 4:16 PM on April 19 [15 favorites]
*sorry, just felt like a lapse into bad cockney was appropriate.
It wasn't.
Anyway, of course they knew there would be consequences. Pointing out the response by management is part of how the protest works. The rest of us should make a point to see that Google pays for that, in whatever ways we can.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 5:17 PM on April 19 [14 favorites]
It wasn't.
Anyway, of course they knew there would be consequences. Pointing out the response by management is part of how the protest works. The rest of us should make a point to see that Google pays for that, in whatever ways we can.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 5:17 PM on April 19 [14 favorites]
*sorry, just felt like a lapse into bad cockney was appropriate.appropriate or cockney
It wasn't.
posted by fullerine at 5:59 PM on April 19 [6 favorites]
Yeah, how dare employees refuse to be complicit in genocide when the shareholders have a chance to make money?
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:17 PM on April 19 [4 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:17 PM on April 19 [4 favorites]
always ready with the Clash shoutout, @windowpaene. know your rights.
posted by j_curiouser at 6:42 PM on April 19 [2 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 6:42 PM on April 19 [2 favorites]
employees refuse to be complicit in genocide.
I’m sure the genocide victims in Congo, Sudan, Ethiopia, India, Afghanistan, etc will be pleased to know that the Google employees stood up for them.
Oh, wait, they didn’t actually for any of those? Got it. I’ll stay with my 'orrible Dick van Dyke interpretation.
posted by Galvanic at 7:10 PM on April 19 [4 favorites]
I’m sure the genocide victims in Congo, Sudan, Ethiopia, India, Afghanistan, etc will be pleased to know that the Google employees stood up for them.
Oh, wait, they didn’t actually for any of those? Got it. I’ll stay with my 'orrible Dick van Dyke interpretation.
posted by Galvanic at 7:10 PM on April 19 [4 favorites]
Why would google employees need to stand up for them? The perpetrators of those genocides weren't using Google's technologies to perpetrate them. Sometimes it is okay not to be contrarian. Especially when you don't know what you are talking about.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 7:28 PM on April 19 [19 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 7:28 PM on April 19 [19 favorites]
I'm personal friends with a tech worker who similarly got fired for protesting injustice at work, on a different occasion.
It is true that some white collar tech workers make enough money that getting fired does not immediately lead to eviction or hunger. But I can assure you that it's not fun and games either. It takes a lot of courage and personal fortitude to walk the walk.
Can we not have a little respect for people that are willing to put in this courage and do this work?
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:34 PM on April 19 [26 favorites]
It is true that some white collar tech workers make enough money that getting fired does not immediately lead to eviction or hunger. But I can assure you that it's not fun and games either. It takes a lot of courage and personal fortitude to walk the walk.
Can we not have a little respect for people that are willing to put in this courage and do this work?
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:34 PM on April 19 [26 favorites]
Additionally, one of the founders of the #NoTechForApartheid movement is Eritrean, and both she and the institute she founded have been extremely vocal about the genocides in Ethiopia and Sudan, among others. This is trivially findable information!
(Ethiopia and Sudan are also not examples of Apartheid states, so i'm not sure why anyone would think they'd be in the remit of #NoTechForApartheid specifically.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:42 PM on April 19 [27 favorites]
(Ethiopia and Sudan are also not examples of Apartheid states, so i'm not sure why anyone would think they'd be in the remit of #NoTechForApartheid specifically.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:42 PM on April 19 [27 favorites]
I work in tech, and high minded zealots like the above have been pandered to for too long. I'm glad they got fired for their completely unprofessional stunt. We shouldn't let workplaces be politicized.
Obviously there are a lot of moral complexities to the Israeli actions. But the Israeli system is nothing like South African apartheid. There are no separate Palestinian and Jewish entrances. Palestinians sit on the Supreme Court and are part of the ruling government.
Leave foreign policy to the adults.
posted by earlsofsandwich at 5:52 PM on April 20 [2 favorites]
Obviously there are a lot of moral complexities to the Israeli actions. But the Israeli system is nothing like South African apartheid. There are no separate Palestinian and Jewish entrances. Palestinians sit on the Supreme Court and are part of the ruling government.
Leave foreign policy to the adults.
posted by earlsofsandwich at 5:52 PM on April 20 [2 favorites]
There are no separate Palestinian and Jewish entrances. Palestinians sit on the Supreme Court and are part of the ruling government.
Six months in, and still there's comfort in making such a claim in the first half, and eliding Israeli citizens (who still face second class treatment) and residents of occupied territories in the second half. I think I'll have another round of the bad cockney.
posted by cendawanita at 6:01 PM on April 20 [8 favorites]
Six months in, and still there's comfort in making such a claim in the first half, and eliding Israeli citizens (who still face second class treatment) and residents of occupied territories in the second half. I think I'll have another round of the bad cockney.
posted by cendawanita at 6:01 PM on April 20 [8 favorites]
> Six months in, and still there's comfort in making such a claim in the first half, and eliding Israeli citizens (who still face second class treatment) and residents of occupied territories in the second half. I think I'll have another round of the bad cockney.
They called it "No Tech for Aparthaid" not "No Tech for Occupation." Most people associate apartheid with a racial classification system. You're just playing a lawyers game.
And of course are eliding over the October 7th attack and Iran's attack on Saturday. Which is fine, because we're not here to relitigate the entire conflict
posted by earlsofsandwich at 6:30 PM on April 20 [1 favorite]
They called it "No Tech for Aparthaid" not "No Tech for Occupation." Most people associate apartheid with a racial classification system. You're just playing a lawyers game.
And of course are eliding over the October 7th attack and Iran's attack on Saturday. Which is fine, because we're not here to relitigate the entire conflict
posted by earlsofsandwich at 6:30 PM on April 20 [1 favorite]
of course are eliding over the October 7th attack and Iran's attack on Saturday. Which is fine, because we're not here to relitigate the entire conflict
Is Google doing business with Hamas or Iran? The DOJ would be interested to learn, I'm sure.
Otherwise, it's just sad to see people so thoroughly identifying with capitalism as to be happy to watch others get slapped down for their principled objections to what they regard, with good reason, as a cruel and unjust system. The billionaires aren't going to take you to Mars with them.
posted by praemunire at 6:41 PM on April 20 [13 favorites]
Is Google doing business with Hamas or Iran? The DOJ would be interested to learn, I'm sure.
Otherwise, it's just sad to see people so thoroughly identifying with capitalism as to be happy to watch others get slapped down for their principled objections to what they regard, with good reason, as a cruel and unjust system. The billionaires aren't going to take you to Mars with them.
posted by praemunire at 6:41 PM on April 20 [13 favorites]
Leave foreign policy to the adults.
One of the things I've learned about human beings is that we suck at taking advice. We suck double at taking good advice. But the advice we suck the worst at taking, hands down, is the good advice we offer unsolicited to other people.
posted by flabdablet at 7:07 PM on April 20 [6 favorites]
One of the things I've learned about human beings is that we suck at taking advice. We suck double at taking good advice. But the advice we suck the worst at taking, hands down, is the good advice we offer unsolicited to other people.
posted by flabdablet at 7:07 PM on April 20 [6 favorites]
A lawyer's game? Amnesty International isn't an organisation of lawyers: this is a 2022 report looking into decades not years of Israel's state treatment of Palestinians . This includes within Israel. Earlier in 2021 by HRW: A Threshold Crossed -
Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution
These reports aren't emotive appeals, they do begin by providing the definition of the system that is at least agreed to be a sort of racial classification.
posted by cendawanita at 7:09 PM on April 20 [9 favorites]
Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution
These reports aren't emotive appeals, they do begin by providing the definition of the system that is at least agreed to be a sort of racial classification.
posted by cendawanita at 7:09 PM on April 20 [9 favorites]
I would suggest that committing genocide is perhaps the least adult option, and suggest that earlsofsandwich consider whether they're really, really willing to commit to, basically, letting any company abet crimes against humanity without protest in the name of some nebulous maturity.
posted by sagc at 7:10 PM on April 20 [4 favorites]
posted by sagc at 7:10 PM on April 20 [4 favorites]
Hasn't hit 40 yet. Give the kid a break.
posted by flabdablet at 7:12 PM on April 20 [2 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 7:12 PM on April 20 [2 favorites]
Why would google employees need to stand up for them? The perpetrators of those genocides weren't using Google's technologies to perpetrate them. Sometimes it is okay not to be contrarian. Especially when you don't know what you are talking about.
They’re not? I guarantee you dollars to doughnuts that the Google employees (and you) didn’t check on those genocides for Google involvement when they started happening. Sometimes it’s okay not to be entirely predictable. Especially when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
posted by Galvanic at 8:11 PM on April 20
They’re not? I guarantee you dollars to doughnuts that the Google employees (and you) didn’t check on those genocides for Google involvement when they started happening. Sometimes it’s okay not to be entirely predictable. Especially when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
posted by Galvanic at 8:11 PM on April 20
I guarantee you dollars to doughnuts that the Google employees (and you) didn’t check on those genocides for Google involvement when they started happening.
(Ibraheem):...This campaign has been going on for about three years now, ever since Project Nimbus was created.
posted by flabdablet at 8:38 PM on April 20 [4 favorites]
(Ibraheem):...This campaign has been going on for about three years now, ever since Project Nimbus was created.
posted by flabdablet at 8:38 PM on April 20 [4 favorites]
Google doesn’t do business with Iran or Hamas because they are not legally allowed to do business with them. I’m sure if you start looking at the organizations and governments Google does business with you will find a number of particularly terrible entities.
posted by interogative mood at 9:35 PM on April 20
posted by interogative mood at 9:35 PM on April 20
We shouldn't let workplaces be politicized.
did you go to school? have you read a book?
posted by busted_crayons at 2:59 AM on April 21 [7 favorites]
did you go to school? have you read a book?
posted by busted_crayons at 2:59 AM on April 21 [7 favorites]
Sometimes it’s okay not to be entirely predictable. Especially when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Couldn't agree more.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 3:36 AM on April 21 [2 favorites]
Couldn't agree more.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 3:36 AM on April 21 [2 favorites]
Oof, not apartheid? Just off the top of my head - a complex series of identity layers and documents for Palestinians, which mean, among other things, that marrying a person with different identity documents means you can lose your right to live in the place you were born and grew up in; streets in their own cities that Palestinians are unable to walk down (ever been to Hebron?); separate license plates for Palestinians; streets and highways where Palestinians are not allowed to drive; confiscation of land because you are Palestinian; restriction of access to land because you are Palestinian; indefinite detention because you are Palestinian; denial of the right to return to your home country because you are Palestinian; checkpoints, checkpoints fucking everywhere; and being subject to continual harassment and collective punishment at the whim of the military apparatus and militant civilian population with no recourse to justice because you are Palestinian. But sure, "no separate entrances to public buildings" means it's not apartheid. Tell me - this doesn't have to be a rhetorical question, I'd welcome your answer, identity document by checkpoint by identity document - how Gazans or West Bankers or Palestinian refugees in Sabra get to the public buildings in Israel where they're welcome to enter through the same door as anybody else
posted by happyfrog at 3:38 AM on April 21 [14 favorites]
posted by happyfrog at 3:38 AM on April 21 [14 favorites]
It’s apartheid, say Israeli ambassadors to South Africa
During our careers in the foreign service, we both served as Israel’s ambassador to South Africa. In this position, we learned firsthand about the reality of apartheid and the horrors it inflicted. But more than that – the experience and understanding we gained in South Africa helped us to understand the reality at home.posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:05 AM on April 21 [15 favorites]
For over half a century, Israel has ruled over the occupied Palestinian territories with a two-tiered legal system, in which, within the same tract of land in the West Bank, Israeli settlers live under Israeli civil law while Palestinians live under military law. The system is one of inherent inequality. In this context, Israel has worked to change both the geography and the demography of the West Bank through the construction of settlements, which are illegal under international law. Israel has advanced projects to connect these settlements to Israel proper through intensive investment in infrastructure development, and a vast network of highways and water and electricity infrastructure have turned the settlement enterprise into a comfortable version of suburbia. This has happened alongside the expropriation and takeover of massive amounts of Palestinian land, including Palestinian home evictions and demolitions. That is, settlements are built and expanded at the expense of Palestinian communities, which are forced onto smaller and smaller tracts of land.
This reality reminds us of a story that former Ambassador Avi Primor described in his autobiography about a trip that he took with then-Minister of Defense Ariel Sharon to South Africa in the early 1980s. During the visit, Sharon expressed great interest in South Africa’s bantustan project. Even a cursory look at the map of the West Bank leaves little doubt regarding where Sharon received his inspiration. The West Bank today consists of 165 “enclaves” – that is, Palestinian communities encircled by territory taken over by the settlement enterprise. In 2005, with the removal of settlements from Gaza and the beginning of the siege, Gaza became simply another enclave – a bloc of territory without autonomy, surrounded largely by Israel and thus effectively controlled by Israel as well.
The bantustans of South Africa under the apartheid regime and the map of the occupied Palestinian territories today are predicated on the same idea of concentrating the “undesirable” population in as small an area as possible, in a series of non-contiguous enclaves. By gradually driving these populations from their land and concentrating them into dense and fractured pockets, both South Africa then and Israel today worked to thwart political autonomy and true democracy.
earlsofsandwich I assume that in your universe "the grownups" are all 100% united in support of Israel's conquest, occupation, and genocide of the indigenous Palestinian population?
I loved the PR from Google, basically say it was outside forces that were causing issues.
I note that through all history it has ALWAYS been outside agitators that are stirring up dissent among the goodly folks of X who are naturally all 100% united behind the evils being done in/by X.
One of the major beliefs of any organization seems to be that no one in the organization is capable of independently realizing that the organization is doing bad things and trying to stop it.
posted by sotonohito at 9:25 AM on April 21 [6 favorites]
I loved the PR from Google, basically say it was outside forces that were causing issues.
I note that through all history it has ALWAYS been outside agitators that are stirring up dissent among the goodly folks of X who are naturally all 100% united behind the evils being done in/by X.
One of the major beliefs of any organization seems to be that no one in the organization is capable of independently realizing that the organization is doing bad things and trying to stop it.
posted by sotonohito at 9:25 AM on April 21 [6 favorites]
Kids overcorrect as they try to become adults. Nobody hates "kid stuff" more than somebody who thinks they are perceived as a kid.
Children are emotional and disruptive, so sometimes apathy and compliance are mistaken for adulthood. You see it a lot in your wear-a-tie-to-school young Republican types, but it isn't exclusive to them by any stretch.
The kneejerk "protestors are spoiled kids" reaction is often completely detached from any actual opinion about what is being protested.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 9:38 AM on April 21 [9 favorites]
Children are emotional and disruptive, so sometimes apathy and compliance are mistaken for adulthood. You see it a lot in your wear-a-tie-to-school young Republican types, but it isn't exclusive to them by any stretch.
The kneejerk "protestors are spoiled kids" reaction is often completely detached from any actual opinion about what is being protested.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 9:38 AM on April 21 [9 favorites]
Unlike post-Apartheid South Africa there appears to be very little desire on the part of the parties for a multi-ethnic single state solution. There are significant parallels and differences between apartheid and Israel and its relationship to Palestinians in Gaza and The West Bank. There are parallels though and it can be useful to talk about those; but I encourage folks to understand that there are real differences and a rest solution to the problem isn’t going to be the same. Of course one can imagine some future multi-ethnic Israel with the Palestinian population of the West Bank and Gaza having film suffrage and equality. That vision might even be the one most appealing your values and ideals. However imposing that solution is difficult and impossible absent a change in the viewpoints of most Israelis and Palestinians. People who want that kind of future tend to leave the region for places like the USA and Canada.
The UN has long recognized the right of self determination along ethnic and geographic lines. I think that the basis for peace must be in the form of a negotiated two state solution.
posted by interogative mood at 11:38 AM on April 21 [1 favorite]
The UN has long recognized the right of self determination along ethnic and geographic lines. I think that the basis for peace must be in the form of a negotiated two state solution.
posted by interogative mood at 11:38 AM on April 21 [1 favorite]
Unlike post-Apartheid South Africa there appears to be very little desire on the part of the parties for a multi-ethnic single state solution.
I think there's tremendous appetite for that on the part of Palestinians! I don't think the lack of a desire for an equitable, fair, multiracial one-state solution on the part of Palestinians is what's holding that process up.
I think most Palestinians in the occupied territories want to travel freely to the places their ancestors lived and absent that, I don't think the vast majority of Palestinians will ever be satisfied with any proposed "two-state solution."
Also, based on opinion polls, there seems to be "little desire" on the part of all involved, Israelis most of all, for a two-state solution. So perhaps that is not the best basis for deciding what is the greatest way forward for the region.
posted by lizard2590 at 2:13 PM on April 21 [3 favorites]
I think there's tremendous appetite for that on the part of Palestinians! I don't think the lack of a desire for an equitable, fair, multiracial one-state solution on the part of Palestinians is what's holding that process up.
I think most Palestinians in the occupied territories want to travel freely to the places their ancestors lived and absent that, I don't think the vast majority of Palestinians will ever be satisfied with any proposed "two-state solution."
Also, based on opinion polls, there seems to be "little desire" on the part of all involved, Israelis most of all, for a two-state solution. So perhaps that is not the best basis for deciding what is the greatest way forward for the region.
posted by lizard2590 at 2:13 PM on April 21 [3 favorites]
The polling data I’ve seen has indicated that is that support for a multi-ethnic one state solution peaked a couple of years ago among Palestinians at about 33%. Currently Hamas remains popular with 70% or more of Palestinians supporting the organization and the attacks on October 7th. Support for a two state solution has risen and fallen among polls of Israelis and Palestinians based on their views of the possibility of a peace agreement. When the public is optimistic that there can be a peace agreement then support for the idea becomes the majority viewpoint. This holds for both sides of the conflict.
I think the barriers to a single state solution are insurmountable. Getting the parties to sit down and negotiate on the basis of reaching a two state solution is extremely difficult; but seems within the realm of possibility — we’ve managed to get negotiations going in the past on that basis.
At the moment neither Netenyahu nor Hamas are even close to that kind of negotiarion. At best we’re hoping for some kind of long term ceasefire. After that the goal is to figure out how to stop another round from starting again in a year or two.
posted by interogative mood at 2:56 PM on April 21 [2 favorites]
I think the barriers to a single state solution are insurmountable. Getting the parties to sit down and negotiate on the basis of reaching a two state solution is extremely difficult; but seems within the realm of possibility — we’ve managed to get negotiations going in the past on that basis.
At the moment neither Netenyahu nor Hamas are even close to that kind of negotiarion. At best we’re hoping for some kind of long term ceasefire. After that the goal is to figure out how to stop another round from starting again in a year or two.
posted by interogative mood at 2:56 PM on April 21 [2 favorites]
"Only 35% of Israelis think “a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully,” according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April, prior to the latest violence in the West Bank. That represents a decline of 9 percentage points since 2017 and 15 points since 2013." Source
This was before 10/7. I suspect it'll be far lower now.
I think the barriers to a single state solution are insurmountable. Getting the parties to sit down and negotiate on the basis of reaching a two state solution is extremely difficult; but seems within the realm of possibility — we’ve managed to get negotiations going in the past on that basis.
When, after the genocide, do you think that Palestinians will agree to sit down and talk about a two-state solution with the people that perpetrated the genocide against their families?
After that the goal is to figure out how to stop another round from starting again in a year or two.
Another round of genocide? Like another round of what?
posted by lizard2590 at 3:48 PM on April 21 [3 favorites]
This was before 10/7. I suspect it'll be far lower now.
I think the barriers to a single state solution are insurmountable. Getting the parties to sit down and negotiate on the basis of reaching a two state solution is extremely difficult; but seems within the realm of possibility — we’ve managed to get negotiations going in the past on that basis.
When, after the genocide, do you think that Palestinians will agree to sit down and talk about a two-state solution with the people that perpetrated the genocide against their families?
After that the goal is to figure out how to stop another round from starting again in a year or two.
Another round of genocide? Like another round of what?
posted by lizard2590 at 3:48 PM on April 21 [3 favorites]
Lizard2560 as I said support for a two state solution has risen and fallen with the status of peace talks and people’s optimism about a negotiated end. In 2002 the two state situation had the support of about 72% of Israelis and Palestinians. The peace talks have gone no where since then and support has declined steadily.
posted by interogative mood at 9:41 PM on April 21 [1 favorite]
posted by interogative mood at 9:41 PM on April 21 [1 favorite]
Unlike post-Apartheid South Africa there appears to be very little desire on the part of the parties for a multi-ethnic single state solution.
There was fuck-all support amongst the ruling classes for dismantling apartheid in SA as well. Which also didn't change until the disproportionate brutality of the apartheid regime's habitual responses to all forms of resistance had become undeniable enough to turn SA into a pariah State.
posted by flabdablet at 10:36 PM on April 21 [9 favorites]
There was fuck-all support amongst the ruling classes for dismantling apartheid in SA as well. Which also didn't change until the disproportionate brutality of the apartheid regime's habitual responses to all forms of resistance had become undeniable enough to turn SA into a pariah State.
posted by flabdablet at 10:36 PM on April 21 [9 favorites]
Seriously, the only reason Israel isn't already a pariah State at this point is the influence of its Great and Powerful Friend. And there are limits to what even the US can pretend not to see.
posted by flabdablet at 10:49 PM on April 21 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 10:49 PM on April 21 [4 favorites]
Unlike post-Apartheid
Sorry, are you trying to argue against Israeli treatment of Palestinians being an apartheid regime because it doesn’t look like a post-apartheid system? Because goals that emerge from a well-resourced Truth and Reconciliation process with broad international support, following the ruling group losing international support and recognition, are not the same as goals parties may have in the moment while a conflict and an apartheid system are ongoing?
posted by eviemath at 4:43 AM on April 22 [10 favorites]
Sorry, are you trying to argue against Israeli treatment of Palestinians being an apartheid regime because it doesn’t look like a post-apartheid system? Because goals that emerge from a well-resourced Truth and Reconciliation process with broad international support, following the ruling group losing international support and recognition, are not the same as goals parties may have in the moment while a conflict and an apartheid system are ongoing?
posted by eviemath at 4:43 AM on April 22 [10 favorites]
I said there are parallels and differences. I said it is useful to talk about those similarities but it is also important to think about the differences. Then I highlighted one of those differences. Also the South African Truth and Reconciliation process started in 1996 long after De Klerk and Mandela negotiated the end of apartheid. It was not something that the international community imposed on South Africa as a starting point -- it was created by South Africans and run by South Africans. Your comment is an example of the kind of thinking that seems to arise when people think this is just Apartheid without considering that there are also differences. Yeah in theory a truth and reconciliation commission would be helpful, except for the small problem of actually finding commissioners who would have the political and moral standing to be able to deliver a meaningful Truth and Reconciliation process.
posted by interogative mood at 12:24 PM on April 22
posted by interogative mood at 12:24 PM on April 22
So this thread is supposed to be about #NoTechForApartheid and the anti-genocide protests at Google; there is an open Gaza thread in which things like the so-called "two-state solution" are much more on topic. In an attempt to rerail this one, i would like to suggest that discussion of whether, for instance, a bantustan is a state (it's not) should go over there—i've left a comment you're all welcome to react to!
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:12 PM on April 22 [5 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:12 PM on April 22 [5 favorites]
Google workers speak out, via a live press conference hosted by Haymarket Books.
According to the fired workers, current Google employees have doxxed them and publicized their photos on social media. More Google employees were fired, some of whom had nothing to do with the activism of these employees, and had only stopped to speak with them, or to find out more information.
posted by toastyk at 6:26 PM on April 22 [9 favorites]
According to the fired workers, current Google employees have doxxed them and publicized their photos on social media. More Google employees were fired, some of whom had nothing to do with the activism of these employees, and had only stopped to speak with them, or to find out more information.
posted by toastyk at 6:26 PM on April 22 [9 favorites]
Every corporation that isn't worker-owned is, politically speaking, a mini-dictatorship and the larger the corporation, the less mini the dictatorship.
I have not been surprised at all by the behaviour of Google management in this case. Pichai can only be expected to be more comfortable dealing with Netanyahu than with his own peons. It's a birds of a feather thing.
posted by flabdablet at 6:49 PM on April 22 [4 favorites]
I have not been surprised at all by the behaviour of Google management in this case. Pichai can only be expected to be more comfortable dealing with Netanyahu than with his own peons. It's a birds of a feather thing.
posted by flabdablet at 6:49 PM on April 22 [4 favorites]
Also note, that the current head of cloud computing at google is Thomas Kurian who came from Oracle. Expect the lawnmower.
posted by kmt at 5:05 AM on April 23 [1 favorite]
posted by kmt at 5:05 AM on April 23 [1 favorite]
There are no separate Palestinian and Jewish entrances. Palestinians sit on the Supreme Court and are part of the ruling government.
I am no expert on Israel, but some months ago there was a long article about an incident on a school bus, I can't remember whether it was an accident or an attack, and how difficult it was to get help for the children because Palestinians inside Israel literally have roads they are and are not allowed to drive on. Unfortunately, I can't find the article right now, and I'd appreciate it if someone who also knows it will post a link. This was the thing that really opened my eyes to apartheid in Israel.
posted by Well I never at 4:05 PM on April 23 [2 favorites]
I am no expert on Israel, but some months ago there was a long article about an incident on a school bus, I can't remember whether it was an accident or an attack, and how difficult it was to get help for the children because Palestinians inside Israel literally have roads they are and are not allowed to drive on. Unfortunately, I can't find the article right now, and I'd appreciate it if someone who also knows it will post a link. This was the thing that really opened my eyes to apartheid in Israel.
posted by Well I never at 4:05 PM on April 23 [2 favorites]
The most obvious is that Israel, even before the latest ramping up of genocide, prevented Palestinians from leaving Gaza without a hard to get permit even just to transit to the west bank. Here's a article detailing some of the travel restrictions and internal checkpoints that apply only to Palestinians in Israel from 2017.
posted by Mitheral at 5:30 PM on April 23 [6 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 5:30 PM on April 23 [6 favorites]
Still awaiting people who leverage whataboutism to realize all it's doing is telling on themselves. (But thanks for bumping this thread back to the top)
posted by CPAnarchist at 4:15 PM on April 24 [3 favorites]
posted by CPAnarchist at 4:15 PM on April 24 [3 favorites]
If nothing else, it reveals a wild ignorance that extends to not even bothering to read the thread.
posted by sagc at 4:18 PM on April 24 [3 favorites]
posted by sagc at 4:18 PM on April 24 [3 favorites]
Did a comment get silently deleted? The last two i can see seem to be responding to something missing.
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:44 PM on April 24 [1 favorite]
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:44 PM on April 24 [1 favorite]
Looks like. The comment I was responding to is gone.
posted by CPAnarchist at 5:23 PM on April 24 [2 favorites]
posted by CPAnarchist at 5:23 PM on April 24 [2 favorites]
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How, specifically, are Google and Google's employees complicit in an ongoing genocide?
"Not that information and also you're fired."
Like Facebook, at some point you have to assume that the people who still work there are fine with it.
posted by mhoye at 4:41 AM on April 19 [19 favorites]