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August 11, 2004 12:25 PM Subscribe
That book is inappropriate We don't cotton to that kinda thing on my ferry son.
I find that quite amazing. I think it's fortunate that they happened to attempt it on someone with the confidence to speak up. My suggestion for next time, if he's looking for a fight, would be to fill his bag totally with porn.
posted by o2b at 12:35 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by o2b at 12:35 PM on August 11, 2004
I have a distinct desire to troll the entry, but will not.
Still, funny.
posted by kavasa at 12:39 PM on August 11, 2004
Still, funny.
posted by kavasa at 12:39 PM on August 11, 2004
I suspect this kind of thing will be increasing in the days leading up to the RNC. The big question is how do we re-assert some the rights which still remain without being taken away for questioning.
(oh, and slightly off-topic but could someone please tell me whose decision it was to have the convention at the difficult to isolate, central hub for trains and subways station that is Penn / MSG instead of the many times easier to secure and not right in the center of everyone's rush hour Javits convention center. You would think these guys were idiots or something. While looking, I just found the RNC-notwelcome site, cool.)
posted by milovoo at 12:42 PM on August 11, 2004
(oh, and slightly off-topic but could someone please tell me whose decision it was to have the convention at the difficult to isolate, central hub for trains and subways station that is Penn / MSG instead of the many times easier to secure and not right in the center of everyone's rush hour Javits convention center. You would think these guys were idiots or something. While looking, I just found the RNC-notwelcome site, cool.)
posted by milovoo at 12:42 PM on August 11, 2004
It was me, milovoo--Javits is closer to my house, and now i'm outside the "show id everytime you leave the house" zone. ; >
good for this guy--i wonder what else they're "confiscating" ?
posted by amberglow at 12:45 PM on August 11, 2004
good for this guy--i wonder what else they're "confiscating" ?
posted by amberglow at 12:45 PM on August 11, 2004
Its plausible, kinda, but that doesn't make it anything more than some dude on livejournal making stuff up. I think the parameters of what guards can search and confiscate is clear enough to prevent the theft of some kid's comic book. He should complain to whatever agency the guard works for, inquire about their policy on confiscating comic books and other entertainment materials. The guard, if this did happen, was clearly acting beyond his mandate.
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:46 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:46 PM on August 11, 2004
I suspect that this was just one guard being an idiot. Security types don't tend to be the most highly evolved.
posted by orange swan at 12:51 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by orange swan at 12:51 PM on August 11, 2004
milovoo are you serious.
Look, go protest about the ferry man trying to take away your comic book but thank god for your cell phone with the aclu listing and let me know when the men in black come to take you away.
Hint: they don't care.
This is more akin to the lady at the DMV being a dick because she can than to any sort of mefite's wet dream about getting oppressed by the man, man.
posted by kavasa at 12:52 PM on August 11, 2004
Look, go protest about the ferry man trying to take away your comic book but thank god for your cell phone with the aclu listing and let me know when the men in black come to take you away.
Hint: they don't care.
This is more akin to the lady at the DMV being a dick because she can than to any sort of mefite's wet dream about getting oppressed by the man, man.
posted by kavasa at 12:52 PM on August 11, 2004
I think "have you lost your grip completely, chuckles?", the author's first (and unspoken) response, was closer to what I would have said. Probably a lot cleaner, but definitely closer.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:55 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:55 PM on August 11, 2004
You just never know when someone will try to hijack the ferry using a picture of a rather impressive sword as a weapon.
posted by caddis at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by caddis at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2004
If this is true, it makes me miss the US a little bit less.
posted by signal at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by signal at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2004
If they'd done a body search, they would have discovered that this guy had a penis in his pants, and absolutely nothing to prevent him from taking it out and menacing other passengers with it in a TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE way. How dare he try to bring such a thing on board.
posted by George_Spiggott at 1:02 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by George_Spiggott at 1:02 PM on August 11, 2004
milovoo are you serious.
Look, go protest about the ferry man trying to take away your comic book but thank god for your cell phone with the aclu listing and let me know when the men in black come to take you away.
Huh? I got lost in your sarcasm there somewhere. I've experienced minor versions of this kind of thing plenty of times in post 9/11 NYC and it's getting worse, not better. Are you suggesting that we simply roll over and accept it?
posted by milovoo at 1:04 PM on August 11, 2004
Look, go protest about the ferry man trying to take away your comic book but thank god for your cell phone with the aclu listing and let me know when the men in black come to take you away.
Huh? I got lost in your sarcasm there somewhere. I've experienced minor versions of this kind of thing plenty of times in post 9/11 NYC and it's getting worse, not better. Are you suggesting that we simply roll over and accept it?
posted by milovoo at 1:04 PM on August 11, 2004
You would think these guys were idiots or something.
Off topic, but...they're not idiots at all. They're counting on the protestors/rioters making them look good by comparison (in the eyes of the television audience). Just like 1968...all of the chaos will just play right into the hands of the Republicans.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2004
Off topic, but...they're not idiots at all. They're counting on the protestors/rioters making them look good by comparison (in the eyes of the television audience). Just like 1968...all of the chaos will just play right into the hands of the Republicans.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2004
When I saw the link to the picture a racist alarm went off in my head... then I realized it wasn't what I thought it was.
posted by Keyser Soze at 1:06 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by Keyser Soze at 1:06 PM on August 11, 2004
What The Card Cheat said--it's exactly what they want:to make them look presentable and normal as opposed to the rabid protestor/anarchist/hippies/whatever...It's a damn good thing there'll be tons of union people and cops and firemen out protesting too.
posted by amberglow at 1:13 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by amberglow at 1:13 PM on August 11, 2004
It's a roleplaying game book, not a comic or racist tract of some sort. Owning a copy of it myself, I suppose it's thick enough to hit someone over the head and do them a fair bit of damage with, but that'd be silly, as it'd probably ruin the book.
The story does reek a bit, but some chap's been posting over on rpg.net claiming to know the guy personally, for whatever that's worth.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 1:13 PM on August 11, 2004
The story does reek a bit, but some chap's been posting over on rpg.net claiming to know the guy personally, for whatever that's worth.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 1:13 PM on August 11, 2004
I think the guard was trying to do the guy a favor. Kinda like, "Hey, your tie is crooked," only instead, he was like, "Hey, you're never gonna get laid carrying that crap around. Grow the fuck up."
posted by keswick at 1:17 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by keswick at 1:17 PM on August 11, 2004
"Are you suggesting that we simply roll over and accept it?"
.......
Ok that is a little bit too much of a limp noodle there, I prefer my laughable rhetorical devices a little more al dente. Please try harder.
Seriously it is not that hard to interpret my response, especially with the clarifying second paragraph. Let me lay it out in special extra-explicit, special ed terms for you though:
The ferry guy, if he existed, was just a dick. He was not a government agent trying to take away your comic books, he's just another one of those people that like to fuck with people.
Extra special pro-tip for after you graduate from high-school: people in soviet russia were shot for saying nasty things about uncle Joe, so when you go HOLY SHIT THEY'RE WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF RIGHTS when some childish bully tries and fails to make a nerd give up his comic book, we aren't laughing with you. We are laughing at you.
In conclusion, no, I'm not suggesting you roll over and accept it. I am suggesting that if there is an "it" to accept or reject, this is in no way an indication of its existence. Further, I'm suggesting you are a clown of the highest order.
ALL THAT SAID: petty bullies are essentially the worst sort of human. They've got that little tiny smidgen of power over you, and they'll do everything they can with it, just because they can. They all deserve a thorough caning.
Thorough.
posted by kavasa at 1:20 PM on August 11, 2004
.......
Ok that is a little bit too much of a limp noodle there, I prefer my laughable rhetorical devices a little more al dente. Please try harder.
Seriously it is not that hard to interpret my response, especially with the clarifying second paragraph. Let me lay it out in special extra-explicit, special ed terms for you though:
The ferry guy, if he existed, was just a dick. He was not a government agent trying to take away your comic books, he's just another one of those people that like to fuck with people.
Extra special pro-tip for after you graduate from high-school: people in soviet russia were shot for saying nasty things about uncle Joe, so when you go HOLY SHIT THEY'RE WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF RIGHTS when some childish bully tries and fails to make a nerd give up his comic book, we aren't laughing with you. We are laughing at you.
In conclusion, no, I'm not suggesting you roll over and accept it. I am suggesting that if there is an "it" to accept or reject, this is in no way an indication of its existence. Further, I'm suggesting you are a clown of the highest order.
ALL THAT SAID: petty bullies are essentially the worst sort of human. They've got that little tiny smidgen of power over you, and they'll do everything they can with it, just because they can. They all deserve a thorough caning.
Thorough.
posted by kavasa at 1:20 PM on August 11, 2004
I have a hard time believing this. Who conveniently thinks of loading ACLU numbers in a cell phone (not just one but 2) right before experiencing completely irrational comic book harrassment. I think this is martyrdom fantasy.
My question is, do wild fictional tales as I believe this to be actually hurt the cause when real injustices occur? I think it could.
posted by dness2 at 1:25 PM on August 11, 2004
My question is, do wild fictional tales as I believe this to be actually hurt the cause when real injustices occur? I think it could.
posted by dness2 at 1:25 PM on August 11, 2004
dness2, if you look back, he was complaining about the bag searches the day before.
kavasa, so it's the abu gharib defense? It's not bad because other people are worse? We shouldn't be upset that rent-a-cops acting for government are deeming books inappropriate, because people in Soviet Russia were shot?
Or is it ok because it was a nerd book? Neeeeeeeerd!!!
posted by Capn at 1:30 PM on August 11, 2004
kavasa, so it's the abu gharib defense? It's not bad because other people are worse? We shouldn't be upset that rent-a-cops acting for government are deeming books inappropriate, because people in Soviet Russia were shot?
Or is it ok because it was a nerd book? Neeeeeeeerd!!!
posted by Capn at 1:30 PM on August 11, 2004
kavasa, you may have some sort of point and if you were normal it would be worth discussing,
but to be honest, you seem like too much of a jerk to bother with.
I have a distinct desire to troll the entry, but will not.
Your first comment in the thread now makes more sense.
posted by milovoo at 1:30 PM on August 11, 2004
but to be honest, you seem like too much of a jerk to bother with.
I have a distinct desire to troll the entry, but will not.
Your first comment in the thread now makes more sense.
posted by milovoo at 1:30 PM on August 11, 2004
I have a hard time believing this. Who conveniently thinks of loading ACLU numbers in a cell phone (not just one but 2) right before experiencing completely irrational comic book harrassment. I think this is martyrdom fantasy.
Yeah, I think the yarn is a way to encourage others to load the ACLU numbers in their cell phones. Well meaning, but totally intellectually dishonest.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 1:31 PM on August 11, 2004
Yeah, I think the yarn is a way to encourage others to load the ACLU numbers in their cell phones. Well meaning, but totally intellectually dishonest.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 1:31 PM on August 11, 2004
that cover is definitely more tacky than inappropriate.
posted by amberglow at 1:33 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by amberglow at 1:33 PM on August 11, 2004
Indeed. It's a shame, because it's a pretty neat book if you're into the game itself.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 1:38 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 1:38 PM on August 11, 2004
PinkstainlessTail: You mean you don't have your local ACLU number in your cell?
posted by bshort at 1:53 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by bshort at 1:53 PM on August 11, 2004
They're not acting for the government you... you... argfdhsfd. Words fail me. Ok, first:
"Or is it ok because it was a nerd book? Neeeeeeeerd!!!"
I am the biggest nerd in the world, so me making that argument would be a little weak. The fact is it was just some guy, and if he's pulling this shit now, he was pulling it 5 years ago, and his kind have been pulling it since time immemorial. If you wanna get all freaked out about The Man, shit, go for it. But do it about something that actually matters, like search and seizure without a warrant ("I smelled dope on him"), about arrest and detainment for greater than 24 hours without pressing chargest (patriot act), or any of a number of legitimate beefs. Not about someone threatening to CALL THE ACLU because some highschool dropout either thought the book was inappropriate or wanted to steal it. This is especially the case because dness is almost certainly right, this is probably a martyr fantasy.
"you seem like too much of a jerk to bother with."
First sensible thing you've said in this thread.
"that cover is definitely more tacky than inappropriate."
Roleplaying games have never been known for their understated elegance.
posted by kavasa at 1:56 PM on August 11, 2004
"Or is it ok because it was a nerd book? Neeeeeeeerd!!!"
I am the biggest nerd in the world, so me making that argument would be a little weak. The fact is it was just some guy, and if he's pulling this shit now, he was pulling it 5 years ago, and his kind have been pulling it since time immemorial. If you wanna get all freaked out about The Man, shit, go for it. But do it about something that actually matters, like search and seizure without a warrant ("I smelled dope on him"), about arrest and detainment for greater than 24 hours without pressing chargest (patriot act), or any of a number of legitimate beefs. Not about someone threatening to CALL THE ACLU because some highschool dropout either thought the book was inappropriate or wanted to steal it. This is especially the case because dness is almost certainly right, this is probably a martyr fantasy.
"you seem like too much of a jerk to bother with."
First sensible thing you've said in this thread.
"that cover is definitely more tacky than inappropriate."
Roleplaying games have never been known for their understated elegance.
posted by kavasa at 1:56 PM on August 11, 2004
Well, it is an anime-style game...
posted by solistrato at 1:59 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by solistrato at 1:59 PM on August 11, 2004
Capn, millions of people go through bag searches without loading ACLU numbers on speed dial. Yet, the one person that did gets hassled over a mildly risque book? I find this improbable unless the guy was spoiling for a fight and is leaving something out or got into a fight the day before over a pocket knife (or something) and the guards don't like him much. Or he's making this up.
I don't find his story compelling or funny in light of the real insults to civil liberties that happen, and will surely happen at the end of this month in NYC. It's crying wolf, and it's childish and not helpful.
posted by dness2 at 2:00 PM on August 11, 2004
I don't find his story compelling or funny in light of the real insults to civil liberties that happen, and will surely happen at the end of this month in NYC. It's crying wolf, and it's childish and not helpful.
posted by dness2 at 2:00 PM on August 11, 2004
Oh man awesome. dness can we work out some kind of good cop/bad cop thing, only it'll be reasonable person/irritating twentysomething? And then right as people are going YOU'RE MEAN SHUTS UP :( to me you can step in and go "what my irritating twentysomething colleague over there is trying to say is blah blah blah" and I'll wander off bored and get a mocha while the rest of you sing kumbayah (lyrics chosen by consensus). And then I'll come back and light a clove and declare you all pedestrian. It'll be great.
posted by kavasa at 2:05 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by kavasa at 2:05 PM on August 11, 2004
If the guy was making the story up he would have picked a cooler book. So I believe him.
posted by Space Coyote at 2:08 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by Space Coyote at 2:08 PM on August 11, 2004
I find it unlikely that some guard would be worrying about comic books when there are perfectly good Syrian musicians to harass.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:08 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:08 PM on August 11, 2004
I assume the guard just wanted to read the book himself.
posted by dobbs at 2:10 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by dobbs at 2:10 PM on August 11, 2004
Gee, kavasa, you've just made the entire East-Coast liberal establishment writhe in shame. Wow. Thanks to your searing insight, I'm going right out to buy me an AK-47 and a lifetime subscription to The American Spectator.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:10 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:10 PM on August 11, 2004
he's just another one of those people that like to fuck with people.
The problem is not that these people exist, but that we're giving more of them more opportunities to do said fucking. That's what you have to try to understand about the constitution and your civil liberties-- the system that makes it too easy for people to fuck with people is a bad system.
posted by cell divide at 2:18 PM on August 11, 2004
The problem is not that these people exist, but that we're giving more of them more opportunities to do said fucking. That's what you have to try to understand about the constitution and your civil liberties-- the system that makes it too easy for people to fuck with people is a bad system.
posted by cell divide at 2:18 PM on August 11, 2004
dness2, Guy gets riled by random book searches, guy puts ACLU phone numbers in his cellphone, goes looking for trouble, finds it. I do not find this an unbelievable story.
Check my first post in this thread, my worry is that it is now believiable that government functionaries think they have the right to confiscate books they don't like. If we're arguing over if this happened or not then my point's made, we all think it could happen.
kavasa, I label you an ass.
posted by Capn at 2:26 PM on August 11, 2004
Check my first post in this thread, my worry is that it is now believiable that government functionaries think they have the right to confiscate books they don't like. If we're arguing over if this happened or not then my point's made, we all think it could happen.
kavasa, I label you an ass.
posted by Capn at 2:26 PM on August 11, 2004
...oh god.
She-devil (he knows!), I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not. Seriously, I drink alot of mochas and have been known to smoke a djarum black just to be smoking a black cigarette (even though I don't actually smoke). Also, I'm currently living in cosmopolitan Wisconsin, so if anyone on the left coast is writhing, it's probably epilepsy.
So.
cell - constitution has never been an issue with these people. You just don't take shit from them (aclu on speed dial not required).
capn - yay. You're still a tool. :)
posted by kavasa at 2:29 PM on August 11, 2004
She-devil (he knows!), I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not. Seriously, I drink alot of mochas and have been known to smoke a djarum black just to be smoking a black cigarette (even though I don't actually smoke). Also, I'm currently living in cosmopolitan Wisconsin, so if anyone on the left coast is writhing, it's probably epilepsy.
So.
cell - constitution has never been an issue with these people. You just don't take shit from them (aclu on speed dial not required).
capn - yay. You're still a tool. :)
posted by kavasa at 2:29 PM on August 11, 2004
So, no one has any details on this? Who did this guard work for? TSA? Any federal agencies? The city or port authority? The outrage needs to be tempered with a sense of reality. This isn't Ashcroft ordering the detainment of people who play D&D, this is some idiot guard acting beyond his authority. Geez. Get. A. Grip.
Besides, what do you think the ACLU is going to do? Like they have some red-phone hotline and a free speech strike force ready to parachute down from their sub-orbital space platform to defend the first and fourth amendment rights of nerds?
posted by elwoodwiles at 2:40 PM on August 11, 2004
Besides, what do you think the ACLU is going to do? Like they have some red-phone hotline and a free speech strike force ready to parachute down from their sub-orbital space platform to defend the first and fourth amendment rights of nerds?
posted by elwoodwiles at 2:40 PM on August 11, 2004
Yes, cell divide, that is it exactly. Checks on the government's power are not just because Government Is Evil, but that there are too many people who will abuse whatever power you give them.
This guard may have been a jerk 7 years ago, but 7 years ago he didn't have an excuse to root around in my backpack.
posted by straight at 2:45 PM on August 11, 2004
This guard may have been a jerk 7 years ago, but 7 years ago he didn't have an excuse to root around in my backpack.
posted by straight at 2:45 PM on August 11, 2004
Port Authority, and something to remember is that these are uniformed port authority police officers,
not generic security employees, unless things have changed since I was last there
(which is possible, since it was quite a while ago).
posted by milovoo at 3:02 PM on August 11, 2004
not generic security employees, unless things have changed since I was last there
(which is possible, since it was quite a while ago).
posted by milovoo at 3:02 PM on August 11, 2004
milovoo, okay, so the idiot guard in question works for the port authority. Perhaps, it is the port authority that should be called and questioned on the matter of search and confiscation policies. If this had happened to me, I would have called the port authority with this guard's name or badge number and complain.
posted by elwoodwiles at 3:09 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by elwoodwiles at 3:09 PM on August 11, 2004
That one doesn't immediately think "no, there is no way a government official conducted a random search and seizure in a public place, and tried to confiscate a book for being inapproriate"
The hell are you talking about, something like that would strike me as absolutely ridiculous. Well, unless the book was titled: "How I Plan to Hijack This Ferry, Killing Millions. Yes, THIS FERRY! THE ONE I'M ABOUT TO BOARD RIGHT NOW!"
Oh, and, I don't buy it either. At best a wild exxagerration of a hassling incident, at worst a complete fabrication.
posted by Krrrlson at 3:11 PM on August 11, 2004
The hell are you talking about, something like that would strike me as absolutely ridiculous. Well, unless the book was titled: "How I Plan to Hijack This Ferry, Killing Millions. Yes, THIS FERRY! THE ONE I'M ABOUT TO BOARD RIGHT NOW!"
Oh, and, I don't buy it either. At best a wild exxagerration of a hassling incident, at worst a complete fabrication.
posted by Krrrlson at 3:11 PM on August 11, 2004
I don't necessarily recommend the direct line to the ACLU angle on this, and it's not even like the guy really called them, he just mentioned it to the guard. If you read the original posted article it seems completely plausible, and, like I said before, this kind of stuff happens, with minor variations, pretty frequently, and it's getting worse. There are a lot of new NYC cops with very little experience and overworked schedules who are in no questions, no answers, no exceptions mode, even with innocent bystanders, and a lot of them probably haven't had the advanced classes on civil rights yet. It's a weird situation, maybe it's easier to disregard it from a college town in the midwest, but it's pretty strange firsthand.
posted by milovoo at 3:32 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by milovoo at 3:32 PM on August 11, 2004
My suggestion for next time, if he's looking for a fight, would be to fill his bag totally with porn.
ala Chasing Amy? I'd love to see the expression on a bag checker's face when he openned that bag.
I wonder if that may not be a viable method of smuggling stuff past transportation security checks. Tape your plastic box cutter to the pages of "Juggs" or "Co-ED DPs" and then try to get searched by the most uptight looking guard. Hide bulkier items inside sex toys.
posted by Mitheral at 3:32 PM on August 11, 2004
ala Chasing Amy? I'd love to see the expression on a bag checker's face when he openned that bag.
I wonder if that may not be a viable method of smuggling stuff past transportation security checks. Tape your plastic box cutter to the pages of "Juggs" or "Co-ED DPs" and then try to get searched by the most uptight looking guard. Hide bulkier items inside sex toys.
posted by Mitheral at 3:32 PM on August 11, 2004
BoingBoing has an update on this now:
If the story is true, it is not only a violation of company policy, but also of martime regulations, and if it is true, they [the New York Waterway] wish to correct the situation as quickly as possible.
Which is good.
posted by ook at 3:46 PM on August 11, 2004
If the story is true, it is not only a violation of company policy, but also of martime regulations, and if it is true, they [the New York Waterway] wish to correct the situation as quickly as possible.
Which is good.
posted by ook at 3:46 PM on August 11, 2004
So, this may or may not have happened. As none of the people reading this were present, and no witnesses have come forward, I'd like to make this suggestion:
When this [minor?] - or worse - breach of civil liberties occurs in future, make like Marvin and beg: 'Can I get a witness?'
Take names, numbers and addresses - 'cos otherwise, no-one willl believe that pettifogging jobsworths still get jobs on the ferries, covetting your comix and porn, and feeding your blog with material. Take a snap with your phonecam just to be sure, too.
This guy didn't do any of that? The hell you say!
posted by dash_slot- at 4:14 PM on August 11, 2004
When this [minor?] - or worse - breach of civil liberties occurs in future, make like Marvin and beg: 'Can I get a witness?'
Take names, numbers and addresses - 'cos otherwise, no-one willl believe that pettifogging jobsworths still get jobs on the ferries, covetting your comix and porn, and feeding your blog with material. Take a snap with your phonecam just to be sure, too.
This guy didn't do any of that? The hell you say!
posted by dash_slot- at 4:14 PM on August 11, 2004
I'm sure the guy isn't planning on pressing legal action because of this one incident, he just wrote about what happened to him that day in his journal, he needs a fucking affidavit now?
On another note, krrlson misused the 'at best.. at worst' construct. "at best" means you are giving your opponent the benefit of all possible doubt, which means "at best, he's telling the truth" not "at best, i don't believe him, because .. well, just because." It always bugs me when people misuse that particular bit of English.
posted by Space Coyote at 4:21 PM on August 11, 2004
On another note, krrlson misused the 'at best.. at worst' construct. "at best" means you are giving your opponent the benefit of all possible doubt, which means "at best, he's telling the truth" not "at best, i don't believe him, because .. well, just because." It always bugs me when people misuse that particular bit of English.
posted by Space Coyote at 4:21 PM on August 11, 2004
A local man was kept off a recent flight because of a book he was carrying. October 18–25, 2001
At least the comic book guy didn't get refused passage. Twice. Over a book.
"This time, they took my Harry Potter book and about four people studied it for 20 minutes,"
This ferry comic book story is definitely implausible, and stretches the limits of credulity.
posted by jester69 at 4:57 PM on August 11, 2004
At least the comic book guy didn't get refused passage. Twice. Over a book.
"This time, they took my Harry Potter book and about four people studied it for 20 minutes,"
This ferry comic book story is definitely implausible, and stretches the limits of credulity.
posted by jester69 at 4:57 PM on August 11, 2004
Coyote : I don't see how he misused the "at best / at worst" pattern at all.
Your claim "'at best' means you are giving your opponent the benefit of all possible doubt" doesn't really conicide at all with how the term is used, as far as I can tell. Your definition sounds a bit like the Principle of Charity (1, 2), but seems a far too narrow definition of "at best."
I've always interpreted it to mean "the best plausible interpretation of the facts given is x, wherease the worst interpretation is y." It doesn't mean you have to lose your grip on reality, and if krrlson finds the guy's story to be utterly impossible, his "best" scenario is in fact applying the most charitable interpretation he finds possible.
Besides, the phrase doesn't even necessarily involve debate at all, so I don't understand why you would define it in terms of an "opponent." However, if you know of some documentation suggesting yours is the one true meaning of the term, I would be interested in reading it.
posted by mragreeable at 4:59 PM on August 11, 2004
Your claim "'at best' means you are giving your opponent the benefit of all possible doubt" doesn't really conicide at all with how the term is used, as far as I can tell. Your definition sounds a bit like the Principle of Charity (1, 2), but seems a far too narrow definition of "at best."
I've always interpreted it to mean "the best plausible interpretation of the facts given is x, wherease the worst interpretation is y." It doesn't mean you have to lose your grip on reality, and if krrlson finds the guy's story to be utterly impossible, his "best" scenario is in fact applying the most charitable interpretation he finds possible.
Besides, the phrase doesn't even necessarily involve debate at all, so I don't understand why you would define it in terms of an "opponent." However, if you know of some documentation suggesting yours is the one true meaning of the term, I would be interested in reading it.
posted by mragreeable at 4:59 PM on August 11, 2004
This guard may have been a jerk 7 years ago, but 7 years ago he didn't have an excuse to root around in my backpack.
And seven years ago, many more people would have had the confidence to tell him to fuck off, instead of meekly handing over their book/nailfile/whatever and taking their lumps like good, patriotic, and above-all obedient little American citizens.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:56 PM on August 11, 2004
And seven years ago, many more people would have had the confidence to tell him to fuck off, instead of meekly handing over their book/nailfile/whatever and taking their lumps like good, patriotic, and above-all obedient little American citizens.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:56 PM on August 11, 2004
I *think* this is the cover of the book he was talking about, or at least the character the book was about, the Maiden of the Mirthless Smile:
http://www.faerye.net/img/articles/abyssals.jpg
posted by kablam at 6:02 PM on August 11, 2004
http://www.faerye.net/img/articles/abyssals.jpg
posted by kablam at 6:02 PM on August 11, 2004
mragreeable, it's true, the principle of charity did come into my head as I was finishing my last post, and I do think the expression 'at best', or 'the best thing I can say about this' does imply that you are being generous in your judgment, and then 'at worst' says you're being less generous. So to set the upper bound of possibility to be "he's making it up" would require a fair amount of good reason, which isn't there. If words don't mean anything then they're just extra typing, and I think if more people (including myself) used the principle of charity on here we'd have better discussions, now taht you bring that up :)
posted by Space Coyote at 7:13 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by Space Coyote at 7:13 PM on August 11, 2004
For what it's worth, I've been in occasional email contact with this gentleman for several months now, and I've found him to be honest and sensible.
posted by jkilg at 9:46 PM on August 11, 2004
posted by jkilg at 9:46 PM on August 11, 2004
Jester69 said:
"This ferry comic book story is definitely implausible, and stretches the limits of credulity."
Ok, first of all, get your facts straight. It wasn't a comic book. It was a sourcebook for a roleplaying game. Horse of an entirely different color.
Second, what makes this 'definitely implausible'? In what way? Other than you stating it as an 'obvious' fact. Because from where I'm sitting in Ashcroft's Amerikkka this is not implausible at all.
Thousands of petty tyrants always use times like this to assert their dominance over the unwashed masses. It's typical primate behavior, just monkeys throwing monkeyshit on other monkeys because they think they can.
posted by geekhorde at 11:13 PM on August 11, 2004
"This ferry comic book story is definitely implausible, and stretches the limits of credulity."
Ok, first of all, get your facts straight. It wasn't a comic book. It was a sourcebook for a roleplaying game. Horse of an entirely different color.
Second, what makes this 'definitely implausible'? In what way? Other than you stating it as an 'obvious' fact. Because from where I'm sitting in Ashcroft's Amerikkka this is not implausible at all.
Thousands of petty tyrants always use times like this to assert their dominance over the unwashed masses. It's typical primate behavior, just monkeys throwing monkeyshit on other monkeys because they think they can.
posted by geekhorde at 11:13 PM on August 11, 2004
The RPG book thing makes it a bit more plausible in my eyes than if it was a comic book, I have to admit. For a lot of people, there's still the RPG = weirdo connection, even if they don't honestly believe that D&D makes you worship Satan or something. I can easily see the guard's mental processes going "Great, I've got some fucking weirdo trying to get onto the ferry. Hope he doesn't cause any shit. Better make sure, though," and going downhill from there.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 12:02 AM on August 12, 2004
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 12:02 AM on August 12, 2004
I will be curious if any of the comments in this thread make it to publication in a newspaper from a reporter doing "research' for a story.
Keep an eye out for something that looks familiar....
posted by fluffycreature at 5:01 AM on August 12, 2004
Keep an eye out for something that looks familiar....
posted by fluffycreature at 5:01 AM on August 12, 2004
Geekhorde: not being into RPG's the cover illustration looked comic-book like to me. That I do not know the difference could be a mark of pride or shame, depending on how you look at it.
As to my comments about veracity, read the link I pasted, reread my comment, then perhaps read this entry in the dictionary. Contemplate these three items together and see if you can correlate the disconnects.
posted by jester69 at 7:53 AM on August 16, 2004
As to my comments about veracity, read the link I pasted, reread my comment, then perhaps read this entry in the dictionary. Contemplate these three items together and see if you can correlate the disconnects.
posted by jester69 at 7:53 AM on August 16, 2004
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
See, now to my mind, the details of this don't matter, it doesn't even matter if this is just some dude on livejournal making stuff up.
What matters is that this is plausible. That one doesn't immediately think "no, there is no way a government official conducted a random search and seizure in a public place, and tried to confiscate a book for being inapproriate"
posted by Capn at 12:28 PM on August 11, 2004