interesting first hand accounts
April 16, 2001 10:44 AM Subscribe
interesting first hand accounts, as to what happend' to the American crew of 24 on Hainan island. And from what i gather, it didnt seem too bad. The media and 'analysts' made things out to be much worse i think.
I fail to see how these crewmen are heroes. Good soldiers, yes, heroes? No.
Our American habit of wussing out whenever American soldiers are behind enemy lines is gonna bite us in the ass one of these days.
posted by owillis at 10:56 AM on April 16, 2001
Our American habit of wussing out whenever American soldiers are behind enemy lines is gonna bite us in the ass one of these days.
posted by owillis at 10:56 AM on April 16, 2001
The made-for-tv-movie version of this almost writes itself, don't you think? Maybe George Clooney can beef up a little bit and play the pilot. Calista Flockhart as that teeny little navigator woman. The cast of "Felicity" or "Dawson's Creek" to play the rest of the crew.
"24 Americans trapped behind enemy lines...the nation trembles as super-powers collide and the world teeters on the brink of nuclear war...and the love between a man and a woman....."
posted by briank at 11:00 AM on April 16, 2001
"24 Americans trapped behind enemy lines...the nation trembles as super-powers collide and the world teeters on the brink of nuclear war...and the love between a man and a woman....."
posted by briank at 11:00 AM on April 16, 2001
Wussing out? What course of action would you have recommended, owillis? A full-scale invasion of China? Or maybe we should have nuked Bejing.
You understand, of course, that unlike Iraq, or Kosovo, or any of the other impoverished fiefdom's that the U.S. has made a habit of leveling under questionable circumstances in the past few years, China is a big freakin' country. Big military. Big nuclear weapons. Well worthy of the extra diplomatic attention that the U.S. affords it.
Besides, I'm not entirely sure that the U.S. was in the right on this one, despite the media's feverish attempts to spin these folks into "heroes".
posted by Optamystic at 11:09 AM on April 16, 2001
You understand, of course, that unlike Iraq, or Kosovo, or any of the other impoverished fiefdom's that the U.S. has made a habit of leveling under questionable circumstances in the past few years, China is a big freakin' country. Big military. Big nuclear weapons. Well worthy of the extra diplomatic attention that the U.S. affords it.
Besides, I'm not entirely sure that the U.S. was in the right on this one, despite the media's feverish attempts to spin these folks into "heroes".
posted by Optamystic at 11:09 AM on April 16, 2001
A more appropriate song to teach them?
posted by ParisParamus at 11:15 AM on April 16, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 11:15 AM on April 16, 2001
A more appropriate song to teach them?
The National Anthem!
/warHawk
posted by Mick at 11:16 AM on April 16, 2001
The National Anthem!
/warHawk
posted by Mick at 11:16 AM on April 16, 2001
Optamystic...i think--correct me if i'm wrong here--that owillis probably meant that we over-reacted to a situation that wasn't a big deal, making people doing their jobs into heros, i don't think he was calling for an invasion or anything...that ain't his style.
briank, you have an agent? when can you have the screenplay ready?
posted by th3ph17 at 11:24 AM on April 16, 2001
briank, you have an agent? when can you have the screenplay ready?
posted by th3ph17 at 11:24 AM on April 16, 2001
A more appropriate song to teach them?
I'd like to hear some Sino-American 'Donkey Butt.'
posted by Hankins at 11:26 AM on April 16, 2001
I'd like to hear some Sino-American 'Donkey Butt.'
posted by Hankins at 11:26 AM on April 16, 2001
Anything, anything, as long as it isn't that damn "Voices That Care." Aiiiiieeeeee!
posted by lia at 11:32 AM on April 16, 2001
posted by lia at 11:32 AM on April 16, 2001
I think the media went way over the top on this one, though I don't want to undercut the heroism of the pilot. There's little question, from an aviation standpoint, that he saved 24 lives.
Nor do I want to minimize what they went through. They were not being tortured, there was no show trial, there was no threat of execution. (Keeping in mind that there are as many as 150 deaths among similar missions, including U2 overflights, when we were surveilling the Soviet Union -- deaths we never publicly acknowledged for security reasons.) At the same time, the crew was being held against their will, which is wrong no matter what spin you put on it, such as this "Stockholm syndrome" story in the British press.
It could have been a lot worse, but it should have never happened, and it should not have happened this way.
posted by dhartung at 11:34 AM on April 16, 2001
Nor do I want to minimize what they went through. They were not being tortured, there was no show trial, there was no threat of execution. (Keeping in mind that there are as many as 150 deaths among similar missions, including U2 overflights, when we were surveilling the Soviet Union -- deaths we never publicly acknowledged for security reasons.) At the same time, the crew was being held against their will, which is wrong no matter what spin you put on it, such as this "Stockholm syndrome" story in the British press.
It could have been a lot worse, but it should have never happened, and it should not have happened this way.
posted by dhartung at 11:34 AM on April 16, 2001
i think that we did over-react to the situation, i think it was on ABC's morning show or something that had one guy note that these close calls are frequent and that China would have searched the plane and detained the crew for no longer than 48 hours, but with the actions of our commander in chief calling in a stern voice for the release of the crewman China had a predicament on its hands.
1) let them go, and appear weak to the world
2) detain them
posted by a11an at 11:36 AM on April 16, 2001
1) let them go, and appear weak to the world
2) detain them
posted by a11an at 11:36 AM on April 16, 2001
A more appropriate song to teach them?
How about Fish Heads?
posted by shinybeast at 12:05 PM on April 16, 2001
How about Fish Heads?
posted by shinybeast at 12:05 PM on April 16, 2001
a11an:
You know that little saying 'hind-sight is always 20/20'. Well, I think that's applying to your way of thinking. It always "doesn't seem that bad" to us sitting here behind our desks typing this stuff up. I think if you were in their situation, I can almost guarantee you that you would have been thinking a little differently.
Remember, a person holding you against your will when you did nothing wrong is always the enemy and you can never under-estimate them no matter how "good" things seem.
...and when can you remember the media ever blowing things out-of-proportion???
Thanks for the post though, it was interesting.
posted by the_0ne at 2:22 PM on April 16, 2001
You know that little saying 'hind-sight is always 20/20'. Well, I think that's applying to your way of thinking. It always "doesn't seem that bad" to us sitting here behind our desks typing this stuff up. I think if you were in their situation, I can almost guarantee you that you would have been thinking a little differently.
Remember, a person holding you against your will when you did nothing wrong is always the enemy and you can never under-estimate them no matter how "good" things seem.
...and when can you remember the media ever blowing things out-of-proportion???
Thanks for the post though, it was interesting.
posted by the_0ne at 2:22 PM on April 16, 2001
Optamystic...i think--correct me if i'm wrong here--that owillis probably meant that we over-reacted to a situation that wasn't a big deal, making people doing their jobs into heros, i don't think he was calling for an invasion or anything...that ain't his style.
i agree on the heroes part, but how is saying we "wussed out" not calling for some sort of harsher action?
posted by pikachulolita at 2:31 PM on April 16, 2001
i agree on the heroes part, but how is saying we "wussed out" not calling for some sort of harsher action?
posted by pikachulolita at 2:31 PM on April 16, 2001
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave
posted by aaron at 2:47 PM on April 16, 2001
But you can never leave
posted by aaron at 2:47 PM on April 16, 2001
one-
...and when can you remember the media ever blowing things out-of-proportion???
i hope that was sarcasm.
... off hand i can think of the Clinton incident ... true it was wrong, but was it really worth 24 hour coverage for nearly a year? ...
posted by a11an at 3:38 PM on April 16, 2001
...and when can you remember the media ever blowing things out-of-proportion???
i hope that was sarcasm.
... off hand i can think of the Clinton incident ... true it was wrong, but was it really worth 24 hour coverage for nearly a year? ...
posted by a11an at 3:38 PM on April 16, 2001
Song? A tossup for me between This Land Is Your Land, This land is my land or We Are the World, holding hands with captors each holding a coke and waving to friends and possible foes.
posted by Postroad at 3:39 PM on April 16, 2001
posted by Postroad at 3:39 PM on April 16, 2001
A more appropriate song to teach them?
"Who Let the Dogs Out" Yeeeaaaaaah!!
I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry.
posted by dfowler at 3:44 PM on April 16, 2001
"Who Let the Dogs Out" Yeeeaaaaaah!!
I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry.
posted by dfowler at 3:44 PM on April 16, 2001
When I say "wussed out" I meant our letter saying we were "very sorry". What we should of done is say "fine, keep the soldiers in their little hotel. we'll wait. we weren't doing anything special right now anyways." Instead Bush caved in to public pressure much like BillC has in the past. That's wussin' out.
(thanks to th3ph17 for noting that I have a "style"..)
posted by owillis at 4:05 PM on April 16, 2001
(thanks to th3ph17 for noting that I have a "style"..)
posted by owillis at 4:05 PM on April 16, 2001
i think--correct me if i'm wrong here--that owillis probably meant that we over-reacted to a situation that wasn't a big deal, making people doing their jobs into heros, i don't think he was calling for an invasion or anything...that ain't his style.
I agree. It reminds of when that pilot was shot down over Yugoslavia (Scott O'Grady?). Hundreds of pilots flew missions there and the only one shot down becomes a hero.
posted by obfusciatrist at 4:23 PM on April 16, 2001
I agree. It reminds of when that pilot was shot down over Yugoslavia (Scott O'Grady?). Hundreds of pilots flew missions there and the only one shot down becomes a hero.
posted by obfusciatrist at 4:23 PM on April 16, 2001
...and when can you remember the media ever blowing things out-of-proportion???
a11an:
Yes, that was pure sarcasm. :)
posted by the_0ne at 7:16 PM on April 16, 2001
a11an:
Yes, that was pure sarcasm. :)
posted by the_0ne at 7:16 PM on April 16, 2001
Well, O'Grady did manage to avoid getting captured for six days. That was pretty damned slick, if you ask me.
posted by dhartung at 1:25 AM on April 17, 2001
posted by dhartung at 1:25 AM on April 17, 2001
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posted by Outlawyr at 10:52 AM on April 16, 2001