Ladyless porn for Ladies
February 3, 2009 2:01 PM Subscribe
Some gals like gay (male) porn [mildly NSFW]. But there's not much agreement on how or why.
When film scholar Linda Williams published a 10th-anniversary edition of her book, Hard Core: Power, Pleasure and the "Frenzy of the Visible,", she regretted not daring to include porn stills, refusing to write about gay porn because she was straight, and not talking about her own bodily reactions to a genre of film that is so dedicated to quickening the body. She made good in the epilogue that was added to this 2nd edition, including images, discussion of a wide array of queer porn, and a surprising admission: the films that "moved" her the most were the gay porn flicks.
Since then, the internet has informed women like Williams that they're not alone. The phenomenon of women—lesbian, bi, straight and queer—watching gay male porn has been the subject of advice columns, dense psychoanalytic film theory, and freewheeling dialogues on neo-hedonist mythology as it pertains to gay buttseks and the ladeez [VERY NSFW].
Whatever theoretical explanation you have for it, HotMoviesForHer.com [Pretty NSFW-ish] is there to meet all your gay-porn-for-women needs, including a dedicated gay porn review column [NSFW, fer sure], whose (female) contributors evince a frank pleasure in gay skin flicks of all sorts.
When film scholar Linda Williams published a 10th-anniversary edition of her book, Hard Core: Power, Pleasure and the "Frenzy of the Visible,", she regretted not daring to include porn stills, refusing to write about gay porn because she was straight, and not talking about her own bodily reactions to a genre of film that is so dedicated to quickening the body. She made good in the epilogue that was added to this 2nd edition, including images, discussion of a wide array of queer porn, and a surprising admission: the films that "moved" her the most were the gay porn flicks.
Since then, the internet has informed women like Williams that they're not alone. The phenomenon of women—lesbian, bi, straight and queer—watching gay male porn has been the subject of advice columns, dense psychoanalytic film theory, and freewheeling dialogues on neo-hedonist mythology as it pertains to gay buttseks and the ladeez [VERY NSFW].
Whatever theoretical explanation you have for it, HotMoviesForHer.com [Pretty NSFW-ish] is there to meet all your gay-porn-for-women needs, including a dedicated gay porn review column [NSFW, fer sure], whose (female) contributors evince a frank pleasure in gay skin flicks of all sorts.
Once upon a time Metafilter was gay web designers. Nowadays, it's just gay.
posted by Hovercraft Eel at 2:08 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by Hovercraft Eel at 2:08 PM on February 3, 2009
Thank you. That is all.
posted by desjardins at 2:09 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by desjardins at 2:09 PM on February 3, 2009
Why WOULDN'T straight women like gay male porn? Is this something that has to be theorised about? This should be as ridiculous a question as asking why straight men like watching gay sex- as in woman-woman gay sex. I mean, straight women like watching gorgeous naked men getting it on? This is a topic for an academic treatise?
Another thing that I saw in an interview with a straight female gay-male-porn aficionado: A great thing about gay male porn is how much of it is devoted to scenes of men pleasuring themselves, something you will never see in straight porn.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 2:12 PM on February 3, 2009 [8 favorites]
Another thing that I saw in an interview with a straight female gay-male-porn aficionado: A great thing about gay male porn is how much of it is devoted to scenes of men pleasuring themselves, something you will never see in straight porn.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 2:12 PM on February 3, 2009 [8 favorites]
One of the sub-strains of Japanese manga and anime is known as yaoi and it refers to porn about gay men, usually bishounen (androgynous pretty boys). The audience for it is nearly exclusively women, often middle aged.
posted by Class Goat at 2:12 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by Class Goat at 2:12 PM on February 3, 2009
yeah, it seems to me pretty obvious: straight women like hot men. gay porn has lots of them. perhaps even better for some, there are no other women with whom you can negatively compare yourself. what's not to like?
posted by Maias at 2:16 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Maias at 2:16 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
There's also a good article in last week's New York Times Magazine titled:
What Do Women Want
posted by Rashomon at 2:18 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
What Do Women Want
posted by Rashomon at 2:18 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
ethnomethodologist, did you read the first article? They're talking about queer ladies. So, you're bitching is a little less justified.
Still, I mostly feel this is a matter of sexual fantasies not always matching with sexual preferences.
posted by piratebowling at 2:21 PM on February 3, 2009
Still, I mostly feel this is a matter of sexual fantasies not always matching with sexual preferences.
posted by piratebowling at 2:21 PM on February 3, 2009
Because it erases the female body from sex. Which is either liberatory, or distressing, depending on your point of view.
posted by jokeefe at 2:21 PM on February 3, 2009 [7 favorites]
posted by jokeefe at 2:21 PM on February 3, 2009 [7 favorites]
Uh, I know a lot of guys who will only watch lesbian porn. Methinks they are scared of teh gay, but who knows. There's also the two girls on screen thing. I suspect it is the same thing with women.
I really don't see what the purpose of this post is, other than titillation. Which is OK.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:21 PM on February 3, 2009
I really don't see what the purpose of this post is, other than titillation. Which is OK.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:21 PM on February 3, 2009
A great thing about gay male porn is how much of it is devoted to scenes of men pleasuring themselves, something you will never see in straight porn.
I'm certain that I've seen straight porn comprised of girls pleasuring themselves. I feel as if that woman was talking out of her ass, at least on that fact.
posted by Lemurrhea at 2:22 PM on February 3, 2009
I'm certain that I've seen straight porn comprised of girls pleasuring themselves. I feel as if that woman was talking out of her ass, at least on that fact.
posted by Lemurrhea at 2:22 PM on February 3, 2009
There's also a good article in last week's New York Times Magazine titled:
No, no, that's not a good article. It's a cringe-making article, really. See the discussion which took place here.
posted by jokeefe at 2:22 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
No, no, that's not a good article. It's a cringe-making article, really. See the discussion which took place here.
posted by jokeefe at 2:22 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
> yeah, it seems to me pretty obvious: straight women like hot men. gay porn has lots of them. perhaps even better for some, there are no other women with whom you can negatively compare yourself. what's not to like?
Not only does gay porn have hot men, hetro porn tends to have ugly men. If you like hot men and have the choice of ugly guy + some girl, or two hot guys, it's an easy choice, no?
posted by bjrn at 2:23 PM on February 3, 2009 [9 favorites]
Not only does gay porn have hot men, hetro porn tends to have ugly men. If you like hot men and have the choice of ugly guy + some girl, or two hot guys, it's an easy choice, no?
posted by bjrn at 2:23 PM on February 3, 2009 [9 favorites]
Ironmouth, I once knew a person who would only view lesbian porn because, as he put it, "I don't like dicks."
posted by wierdo at 2:24 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by wierdo at 2:24 PM on February 3, 2009
I always figured it was a direct reaction to men liking lesbian porn. Tit-for-tat, you might say.
posted by SirOmega at 2:25 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by SirOmega at 2:25 PM on February 3, 2009
Lemurrhea, your point confuses me. The author says you rarely see men pleasuring themselves in straight porn and you counter with, "I've seen plenty of straight porn with girls masturbating! Obviously that author is wrong!"
what?
posted by piratebowling at 2:25 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
what?
posted by piratebowling at 2:25 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
I know a bonafied lesbian who swears that gay male porn is the only porn that works for her.
posted by applemeat at 2:26 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by applemeat at 2:26 PM on February 3, 2009
My wife likes to tell the story of how she never understood why men like seeing two women together, until she went to a Morrissey show and saw two hot shirtless guys making out. It was a revelation.
posted by Stylus Happenstance at 2:26 PM on February 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Stylus Happenstance at 2:26 PM on February 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
sexual fantasies not always matching with sexual preferences.
Exactly. This is still news, and pretty interesting, considering how few women I've personally known who admit to liking or watching pron and those that do would admit only to liking lesbian pron. I really have no idea what if anything to make of that. But I'm going to slowly back out this thread now before I say anything else goodbye...
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:27 PM on February 3, 2009
Exactly. This is still news, and pretty interesting, considering how few women I've personally known who admit to liking or watching pron and those that do would admit only to liking lesbian pron. I really have no idea what if anything to make of that. But I'm going to slowly back out this thread now before I say anything else goodbye...
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:27 PM on February 3, 2009
A commenter's response to NSFW analysis:
Fun stuff - the mix of freudianism and balls and ass made me horny.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:28 PM on February 3, 2009
Fun stuff - the mix of freudianism and balls and ass made me horny.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:28 PM on February 3, 2009
Ironmouth, I once knew a person who would only view lesbian porn because, as he put it, "I don't like dicks."
Sounds like a total closet case.
posted by hermitosis at 2:29 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sounds like a total closet case.
posted by hermitosis at 2:29 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
piratebowling- no, not gonna click on a NSFW link here in my office, but if it's about lesbians liking gay porn maybe the link could indicate as much.
I have a dyke friend who likes gay male porn but have never asked her why she likes it. Anyway, for straight women the idea that this would even be a matter for inquiry says more about homophobia than it does about porn: We all know that a straight woman are supposed to \be horny for her man and also to mess around with other women for his amusement. People who are perplexed by how in the heck straight women could POSSIBLY like woman-less porn might inquire about their own homophobia.
Seriously. If straight men can't get off on it, it's verboten.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 2:29 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
I have a dyke friend who likes gay male porn but have never asked her why she likes it. Anyway, for straight women the idea that this would even be a matter for inquiry says more about homophobia than it does about porn: We all know that a straight woman are supposed to \be horny for her man and also to mess around with other women for his amusement. People who are perplexed by how in the heck straight women could POSSIBLY like woman-less porn might inquire about their own homophobia.
Seriously. If straight men can't get off on it, it's verboten.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 2:29 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
I hear you, ethnomethodologist, about the apparent obviousness of female gay-porn watching...BUT, there are also lesbian women who enjoy gay male porn, including the two main contributors to the HotFilmsForHer gay porn review column. ThePornLibrarian, at least, often refers to herself as a lesbian that loves her gay porn hairy, sleazy and aggressive.
Also, I noticed a link in the Nightcharm interview to a partner website called LuridDigs.com [NSFW for more than one reason], which focuses on the horrible interiors of amateur porn. It will make your eyes bleed.
posted by LMGM at 2:30 PM on February 3, 2009
Also, I noticed a link in the Nightcharm interview to a partner website called LuridDigs.com [NSFW for more than one reason], which focuses on the horrible interiors of amateur porn. It will make your eyes bleed.
posted by LMGM at 2:30 PM on February 3, 2009
I figure straight women like gay male porn for the same reason I like lesbian porn, which I like for the same reason I like double cheeseburgers: if one of something is good, two is even better.
posted by jonmc at 2:38 PM on February 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 2:38 PM on February 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
I've seen straight porn comprised of girls pleasuring themselves. I feel as if that woman was talking out of her ass.
That second one sounds pretty weird.
posted by rokusan at 2:38 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
That second one sounds pretty weird.
posted by rokusan at 2:38 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
My theory: If you remove homophobia and repression, you may just find that horny people get off on watching other people get off.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:39 PM on February 3, 2009 [18 favorites]
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:39 PM on February 3, 2009 [18 favorites]
Especially other horny people.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:39 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:39 PM on February 3, 2009
What's the issue here? I was totally flattered when a girl told me she slashed me with other dudes when she masturbated. I'm straight but having sex with men in someone else's fantasy is just awesome. Probably the best sex I've ever had.
posted by uandt at 2:40 PM on February 3, 2009 [18 favorites]
posted by uandt at 2:40 PM on February 3, 2009 [18 favorites]
I was totally flattered when a girl told me she slashed me with other dudes when she masturbated.
Were you dating this girl? If not, it might've been worth asking.
posted by jonmc at 2:42 PM on February 3, 2009
Were you dating this girl? If not, it might've been worth asking.
posted by jonmc at 2:42 PM on February 3, 2009
My theory: If you remove homophobia and repression, you may just find that horny people get off on watching other people get off.
Sexual preference is not about homophobia and repression.
Look, you can't have your cake and eat it too, kids: either everyone has a right to their own desire, or they don't. You can't say that gays can love only their own sex, but you straights, you have to admit that when you see another guy's dick, don't you get a little horny? This is not how it works.
posted by TypographicalError at 2:45 PM on February 3, 2009
Sexual preference is not about homophobia and repression.
Look, you can't have your cake and eat it too, kids: either everyone has a right to their own desire, or they don't. You can't say that gays can love only their own sex, but you straights, you have to admit that when you see another guy's dick, don't you get a little horny? This is not how it works.
posted by TypographicalError at 2:45 PM on February 3, 2009
Class Goat: Ohh, hot topic there. The relationship between yaoi characters and gay men is a matter of much debate, with a lot of guys really put off by the mandatory power relationships involved.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 2:52 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by KirkJobSluder at 2:52 PM on February 3, 2009
MetaFilter: freewheeling dialogues on neo-hedonist mythology as it pertains to gay buttseks and the ladeez
posted by jason's_planet at 2:58 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by jason's_planet at 2:58 PM on February 3, 2009
This is news?
Oh, wait, I guess it is to many straight men.
posted by threeturtles at 2:59 PM on February 3, 2009
Oh, wait, I guess it is to many straight men.
posted by threeturtles at 2:59 PM on February 3, 2009
jonmc: I'm 90% sure I quoted it in my post, but I'll go back and check again.
I don't know, whole thread gives me the impression that gay people are awesome and heteros aren't entitled to an opinion, but maybe I've got my outrage meter up to 11 again.
posted by TypographicalError at 3:00 PM on February 3, 2009
I don't know, whole thread gives me the impression that gay people are awesome and heteros aren't entitled to an opinion, but maybe I've got my outrage meter up to 11 again.
posted by TypographicalError at 3:00 PM on February 3, 2009
I am as as straight as a very butch arrow and am by all accounts (from straight F and gay M friends) a dismal judge of male beauty, but even so it seems to me that the performers in M/M porn are a helluva lot better looking than in the M/F stuff. Any genre in which Ron Jeremy can rise to prominence does not high standards on being good-looking.
So ultimately it is the same stuff that leads so many guys to enjoy watching two girls making out: it's naked, it's fun, and they are both right.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:02 PM on February 3, 2009
So ultimately it is the same stuff that leads so many guys to enjoy watching two girls making out: it's naked, it's fun, and they are both right.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:02 PM on February 3, 2009
I don't know, whole thread gives me the impression that gay people are awesome and heteros aren't entitled to an opinion,
You're being too sensitive. I am straight and I certainly don't feel alienated or excluded. I feel entitled to my own opinion.
Which I will get around to forming, just as soon as I read the actual links.
posted by jason's_planet at 3:03 PM on February 3, 2009
You're being too sensitive. I am straight and I certainly don't feel alienated or excluded. I feel entitled to my own opinion.
Which I will get around to forming, just as soon as I read the actual links.
posted by jason's_planet at 3:03 PM on February 3, 2009
I've actually run into many (straight) women who profess a disgust for gay male porn, especially anal sex. I wonder if they are lying.
I like it better than straight porn because I (think) I can always tell when the woman isn't enjoying herself and is faking it, and that totally kills my enjoyment. Yeah, some gay male porn is totally overacted and stilted, but in general there seems to be more chemistry or at least less reticience/superficiality.
posted by desjardins at 3:11 PM on February 3, 2009
I like it better than straight porn because I (think) I can always tell when the woman isn't enjoying herself and is faking it, and that totally kills my enjoyment. Yeah, some gay male porn is totally overacted and stilted, but in general there seems to be more chemistry or at least less reticience/superficiality.
posted by desjardins at 3:11 PM on February 3, 2009
Along the same lines, though I am bisexual, I totally dislike mainstream lesbian porn because of the fake aspect. Gay-for-pay is hot. Lesbian-for-pay is not. YMMV.
posted by desjardins at 3:12 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by desjardins at 3:12 PM on February 3, 2009
You know what some women also like? Being called gals. The terms broads, dames, dolls, sugarlips, sweetlegs or skirts are equally appropriate.
And let's remember that porn is not the same as sex. In spite of the overlap there is a huge gap between porn and real life. Physical, intellectual and emotional. Different strokes for different folks.
posted by slimepuppy at 3:14 PM on February 3, 2009
And let's remember that porn is not the same as sex. In spite of the overlap there is a huge gap between porn and real life. Physical, intellectual and emotional. Different strokes for different folks.
posted by slimepuppy at 3:14 PM on February 3, 2009
My theory is that men like "lesbian" porn because it has no guys in it, and therefore they don't have to feel gay by looking at penises- it's all fantasy.
I would say the same thing is going on here, but apparently lesbians like it too.
posted by dunkadunc at 3:17 PM on February 3, 2009
I would say the same thing is going on here, but apparently lesbians like it too.
posted by dunkadunc at 3:17 PM on February 3, 2009
I don't know, whole thread gives me the impression that gay people are awesome and heteros aren't entitled to an opinion, but maybe I've got my outrage meter up to 11 again.
Or maybe you're actually living in a dystopian parallel universe that is exactly the opposite of how the real world usually works.
posted by hermitosis at 3:18 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
Or maybe you're actually living in a dystopian parallel universe that is exactly the opposite of how the real world usually works.
posted by hermitosis at 3:18 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
You can't say that gays can love only their own sex, but you straights, you have to admit that when you see another guy's dick, don't you get a little horny?
The reason jonmc asked who you were arguing with is simple: no-one suggested that gays only get off on depictions of gay sex. No-one has raised a double-standard here. People have been suggesting quite the opposite. The comment you quoted was: "If you remove homophobia and repression, you may just find that horny people get off on watching other people get off." This is not a double-standard; it obviously includes gay men as well. The fact that you immediately take a defensive attitude is quite interesting.
posted by creasy boy at 3:19 PM on February 3, 2009
The reason jonmc asked who you were arguing with is simple: no-one suggested that gays only get off on depictions of gay sex. No-one has raised a double-standard here. People have been suggesting quite the opposite. The comment you quoted was: "If you remove homophobia and repression, you may just find that horny people get off on watching other people get off." This is not a double-standard; it obviously includes gay men as well. The fact that you immediately take a defensive attitude is quite interesting.
posted by creasy boy at 3:19 PM on February 3, 2009
OK, before I head to bed and let this continue to spiral, here's why I think this is more than just "water is wet" obviousness:
- generally speaking, I'm seeing in this thread a desire (or assumption) that pornographic pleasures between the sexes be mirror images, or maybe even indistinguishable from one another. I think a lot of the discourse about it, though, attests to it being more complicated than that. Inhibitions about examining and divulging one's own sexual pleasure certainly intereferes with this, but I think it's more than homophobia + repression = gendered difference in porno watching
- historically, there has been a tendency to generalize about sexual desire between genders, claiming that men are more "visual" in their titillation, while women are more "verbal/relational." This is why romance novels are considered the domain of female readership and porno mags are considered the domain of male viewership. So part of what's interesting is that the stuff in this post complicates that assumption: these are women of various orientations expressing great pleasure in consuming visual erotica.
- it's also interesting that some women who claim to not be attracted to men are finding pleasure in male-male sex. I don't see the inverse of this much among gay men (i.e., gay guys who get off on lesbian porn).
- that dense psychoanalytic article is so dense because Laura U. Marks is working from (and against) some important feminist film criticism from the 70s, which argued that the film camera's perspective is first and foremost a masculine perspective, producing voyeuristic pleasure for male spectators. There was a lot of theory that tried to work out whether there was room for female pleasure in this system, and how it would work (c.f., Laura Mulvey and "female masquerade"). So why Marks is spending so much time on women watching gay porn is because she thinks this is an example that undoes this assumption about gender and spectatorship by providing a possible counter-example.
- also, as lesbian-for-straight-male-viewers scenes became prominent, some lesbian women were inspired to create their own sub-genre of lesbian-for-lesbians porn. Will gay male porn react in the same way? Probably not, I think. So it's interesting to think of why female spectatorship of gay male porn isn't likely to be viewed as an "invasion" of gay men's sexual space. (yaoi debates, on the other hand, has much more in common with lesbian complaints about representation in straight pornos).
- most interesting, I think, is that earlier (feminist) explanations of str8 male interest in lesbian porn have attributed it to gender inequality / patriarchy / phallocentrism; in other words, it had something to do with imbalances of power between men and women. The emergence of an audience of women watching gay male porn is that this explanation doesn't work any more, and so we're left to invent new explanations for it.
posted by LMGM at 3:29 PM on February 3, 2009 [8 favorites]
- generally speaking, I'm seeing in this thread a desire (or assumption) that pornographic pleasures between the sexes be mirror images, or maybe even indistinguishable from one another. I think a lot of the discourse about it, though, attests to it being more complicated than that. Inhibitions about examining and divulging one's own sexual pleasure certainly intereferes with this, but I think it's more than homophobia + repression = gendered difference in porno watching
- historically, there has been a tendency to generalize about sexual desire between genders, claiming that men are more "visual" in their titillation, while women are more "verbal/relational." This is why romance novels are considered the domain of female readership and porno mags are considered the domain of male viewership. So part of what's interesting is that the stuff in this post complicates that assumption: these are women of various orientations expressing great pleasure in consuming visual erotica.
- it's also interesting that some women who claim to not be attracted to men are finding pleasure in male-male sex. I don't see the inverse of this much among gay men (i.e., gay guys who get off on lesbian porn).
- that dense psychoanalytic article is so dense because Laura U. Marks is working from (and against) some important feminist film criticism from the 70s, which argued that the film camera's perspective is first and foremost a masculine perspective, producing voyeuristic pleasure for male spectators. There was a lot of theory that tried to work out whether there was room for female pleasure in this system, and how it would work (c.f., Laura Mulvey and "female masquerade"). So why Marks is spending so much time on women watching gay porn is because she thinks this is an example that undoes this assumption about gender and spectatorship by providing a possible counter-example.
- also, as lesbian-for-straight-male-viewers scenes became prominent, some lesbian women were inspired to create their own sub-genre of lesbian-for-lesbians porn. Will gay male porn react in the same way? Probably not, I think. So it's interesting to think of why female spectatorship of gay male porn isn't likely to be viewed as an "invasion" of gay men's sexual space. (yaoi debates, on the other hand, has much more in common with lesbian complaints about representation in straight pornos).
- most interesting, I think, is that earlier (feminist) explanations of str8 male interest in lesbian porn have attributed it to gender inequality / patriarchy / phallocentrism; in other words, it had something to do with imbalances of power between men and women. The emergence of an audience of women watching gay male porn is that this explanation doesn't work any more, and so we're left to invent new explanations for it.
posted by LMGM at 3:29 PM on February 3, 2009 [8 favorites]
I'm not buying this. I've tried the whole pleasuring myself thing, as well as blowing dudes, but instead of getting ladies' phone numbers I just get escorted out of the bar.
posted by orme at 3:32 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by orme at 3:32 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
Well, i'm glad that some women enjoy it, because I as a gay man often can't see the appeal. Those over-masculine hunks in 99% of gay porn I saw are imho just off-putting.
posted by kolophon at 3:38 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by kolophon at 3:38 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
> bonafied
Yes, all this analysis is certainly giving me a boner field day.
posted by shadytrees at 3:41 PM on February 3, 2009
Yes, all this analysis is certainly giving me a boner field day.
posted by shadytrees at 3:41 PM on February 3, 2009
I know a bonafied lesbian who swears that gay male porn is the only porn that works for her.
I'm confused. I thought lesbians didn't want to be bonafied.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 3:43 PM on February 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
I'm confused. I thought lesbians didn't want to be bonafied.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 3:43 PM on February 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
Damn, you shadytrees. And I typed this ten different ways before I posted.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 3:44 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 3:44 PM on February 3, 2009
Those over-masculine hunks in 99% of gay porn I saw are imho just off-putting.
Sweet more for me!
but seriously you feel the same way I feel about "lesbian porn" I use quotes because it's a joke. Glossy 6 foot blonds all having a dildo slumber party, not even remotely attractive and just silly.
posted by SheMulp AKA Plus 1 at 3:47 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sweet more for me!
but seriously you feel the same way I feel about "lesbian porn" I use quotes because it's a joke. Glossy 6 foot blonds all having a dildo slumber party, not even remotely attractive and just silly.
posted by SheMulp AKA Plus 1 at 3:47 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Why women like gay porn:
Have you seen Ron Jeremy?!
posted by Space Kitty at 3:52 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
Have you seen Ron Jeremy?!
posted by Space Kitty at 3:52 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
horny people get off on watching other people get off.
End of story.
posted by Danf at 3:57 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
End of story.
posted by Danf at 3:57 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
"So it's interesting to think of why female spectatorship of gay male porn isn't likely to be viewed as an "invasion" of gay men's sexual space. (yaoi debates, on the other hand, has much more in common with lesbian complaints about representation in straight pornos).
Where could I find such debates? I always saw the yaoi-genre as a curiosity, (found it silly most of the time) but never thought the characters therein should represent a gay reality. Just straight men who are inflamed with insatiable desire for a submissive androgynous youth, who will struggle at first, but eventually dwindles in front of the seme's fervent will some sapful sex-scenes later...
posted by kolophon at 4:00 PM on February 3, 2009
Where could I find such debates? I always saw the yaoi-genre as a curiosity, (found it silly most of the time) but never thought the characters therein should represent a gay reality. Just straight men who are inflamed with insatiable desire for a submissive androgynous youth, who will struggle at first, but eventually dwindles in front of the seme's fervent will some sapful sex-scenes later...
posted by kolophon at 4:00 PM on February 3, 2009
LMGM: also, as lesbian-for-straight-male-viewers scenes became prominent, some lesbian women were inspired to create their own sub-genre of lesbian-for-lesbians porn. Will gay male porn react in the same way? Probably not, I think. So it's interesting to think of why female spectatorship of gay male porn isn't likely to be viewed as an "invasion" of gay men's sexual space. (yaoi debates, on the other hand, has much more in common with lesbian complaints about representation in straight pornos).
Well, I don't think that gay male pornographers will react the same way because they were already there, and have been since the Victorians invented photographic porn. Likewise, women-on-women porn has an equally long history. On Our Backs, the lesbian-on-lesbian magazine that thumbed its nose at anti-porn feminism, started publication in 1984, the same year Cyndi Lauper had a hit singing about jilling off to Blue Boy.
most interesting, I think, is that earlier (feminist) explanations of str8 male interest in lesbian porn have attributed it to gender inequality / patriarchy / phallocentrism; in other words, it had something to do with imbalances of power between men and women. The emergence of an audience of women watching gay male porn is that this explanation doesn't work any more, and so we're left to invent new explanations for it.
Well, I'd argue that it doesn't change much. Even the "sex-positive" feminists who started their own pornographic production companies considered the way in which woman-on-woman scenes were filmed in straight porn to be shaped by gender inequality and phallocentrism. And personally, I think they were right.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 4:00 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, I don't think that gay male pornographers will react the same way because they were already there, and have been since the Victorians invented photographic porn. Likewise, women-on-women porn has an equally long history. On Our Backs, the lesbian-on-lesbian magazine that thumbed its nose at anti-porn feminism, started publication in 1984, the same year Cyndi Lauper had a hit singing about jilling off to Blue Boy.
most interesting, I think, is that earlier (feminist) explanations of str8 male interest in lesbian porn have attributed it to gender inequality / patriarchy / phallocentrism; in other words, it had something to do with imbalances of power between men and women. The emergence of an audience of women watching gay male porn is that this explanation doesn't work any more, and so we're left to invent new explanations for it.
Well, I'd argue that it doesn't change much. Even the "sex-positive" feminists who started their own pornographic production companies considered the way in which woman-on-woman scenes were filmed in straight porn to be shaped by gender inequality and phallocentrism. And personally, I think they were right.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 4:00 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Those over-masculine hunks in 99% of gay porn I saw are imho just off-putting.
Hello? Bel Ami?
posted by me & my monkey at 4:03 PM on February 3, 2009
Hello? Bel Ami?
posted by me & my monkey at 4:03 PM on February 3, 2009
Or maybe you're actually living in a dystopian parallel universe that is exactly the opposite of how the real world usually works.
I think you are misrepresenting the average opinion of a Mefite.
The reason jonmc asked who you were arguing with is simple: no-one suggested that gays only get off on depictions of gay sex. No-one has raised a double-standard here. People have been suggesting quite the opposite. The comment you quoted was: "If you remove homophobia and repression, you may just find that horny people get off on watching other people get off." This is not a double-standard; it obviously includes gay men as well. The fact that you immediately take a defensive attitude is quite interesting.
This is clearly a double standard. I'm not sure what you're talking about. The original comment presupposes that the reason that I, a straight male, don't enjoy watching gay male porn is because of "homophobia and repression". He doesn't label gay men who don't watch girl/girl porn as "heterophobic" or whatever you'd call that.
There are a lot of people in these comments who are just supposing that guys who don't like dicks = gay. This is mainly what I find annoying.
posted by TypographicalError at 4:04 PM on February 3, 2009
I think you are misrepresenting the average opinion of a Mefite.
The reason jonmc asked who you were arguing with is simple: no-one suggested that gays only get off on depictions of gay sex. No-one has raised a double-standard here. People have been suggesting quite the opposite. The comment you quoted was: "If you remove homophobia and repression, you may just find that horny people get off on watching other people get off." This is not a double-standard; it obviously includes gay men as well. The fact that you immediately take a defensive attitude is quite interesting.
This is clearly a double standard. I'm not sure what you're talking about. The original comment presupposes that the reason that I, a straight male, don't enjoy watching gay male porn is because of "homophobia and repression". He doesn't label gay men who don't watch girl/girl porn as "heterophobic" or whatever you'd call that.
There are a lot of people in these comments who are just supposing that guys who don't like dicks = gay. This is mainly what I find annoying.
posted by TypographicalError at 4:04 PM on February 3, 2009
It should be noted that there is perhaps a distinction to be made between woman-on-woman porn and lesbian porn. The former usually just shuffles the same stars from m/f scenes to f/f scenes. The lesbian porn that came out of the 80s made a point of advertising its emphasis on real women and real orgasms.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 4:10 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by KirkJobSluder at 4:10 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
What seems the weirdest in looking at the gay porn we put out is how much of it is just straight up racist. Noting that there's a fair amount of crazy racist straight porn, I wonder what the ratio is…
posted by klangklangston at 4:14 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by klangklangston at 4:14 PM on February 3, 2009
I think you are misrepresenting the average opinion of a Mefite.
I think everyone should avoid trying to represent the average opinion of any group, and move on.
But hey, I know men who hate looking at man-crotch and women who hate looking at woman-crotch. And the reverse. To each their own.
posted by davejay at 4:40 PM on February 3, 2009
I think everyone should avoid trying to represent the average opinion of any group, and move on.
But hey, I know men who hate looking at man-crotch and women who hate looking at woman-crotch. And the reverse. To each their own.
posted by davejay at 4:40 PM on February 3, 2009
TypographicalError:sounds more to me* like the author of the comment ("If you remove homophobia and repression, you may just find that horny people get off on watching other people get off." ) was making a generalization meant to communicate 'people get horny based on whatever, and once we remove our hangups, it's no big deal" not 'all straight dudes secretly love cock!" I'm not sure where you got that idea, maybe from some fringe writer of some overly snarky jerk, but don't let that poison you against listening to normal people.
*Of course, I've been enjoying Frankie Yankovic (among others) on the Kate Smith Show in my other window, so I may have a tin ear. Carry On.
posted by jonmc at 4:48 PM on February 3, 2009
*Of course, I've been enjoying Frankie Yankovic (among others) on the Kate Smith Show in my other window, so I may have a tin ear. Carry On.
posted by jonmc at 4:48 PM on February 3, 2009
Yes.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 5:07 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 5:07 PM on February 3, 2009
The original comment presupposes that the reason that I, a straight male, don't enjoy watching gay male porn is because of "homophobia and repression". He doesn't label gay men who don't watch girl/girl porn as "heterophobic" or whatever you'd call that.
It's way more complicated than that. And way more simple, too, in a way.
We keep seeing these studies that indicate that men, gay or straight, have fairly simple biological responses to things like porn or pheromones or what have you. Gay men respond to men and not women, and straight men respond to women and not men. Their results correspond to their sexual orientation. And then you get to the women, and their results are complicated or non-conclusive. Some might think that points to some fundamental biological difference between men and women, but there's no way that's the whole story. For all of history we've been entrenched in these gender roles, and there's all this homophobia and misogyny and sexual repression and violence in the world, and always has been, that it must have an effect in how we all see each other sexually. Even people who are not homophobic, misogynist, or repressed cannot fully escape the effects of the existence of those things in the world. So, you're not homophobic for not being aroused by gay porn. But if there were no such thing as homophobia (ever), maybe a lot more straight men would be aroused by gay porn. Not all, maybe, but more. There's a huge difference.
And then, for women who are aroused by a wide variety of porn, this is where the simplicity lies: hot people getting it on--what's not to like? And why shouldn't that be the default position? Why should we be asking why women of all sexualities enjoy gay male porn, rather than asking why straight men don't? The answer may seem obvious to you--but understand that the answer to the opposite question is just as obvious to women who do like it. Porn is not the same as actual sexual experience or desire. There's no reason why someone wouldn't be aroused by a portrayal of an act they wouldn't or couldn't do in real life. I'm afraid the real answer to why we ask why the women do that rather than why the men don't is because we still live in a world where the male point-of-view is the default. Never more so than when we're talking about sex and porn.
Apologies for any generalizations, but they're part and parcel to the original topic.
posted by lampoil at 5:46 PM on February 3, 2009 [7 favorites]
It's way more complicated than that. And way more simple, too, in a way.
We keep seeing these studies that indicate that men, gay or straight, have fairly simple biological responses to things like porn or pheromones or what have you. Gay men respond to men and not women, and straight men respond to women and not men. Their results correspond to their sexual orientation. And then you get to the women, and their results are complicated or non-conclusive. Some might think that points to some fundamental biological difference between men and women, but there's no way that's the whole story. For all of history we've been entrenched in these gender roles, and there's all this homophobia and misogyny and sexual repression and violence in the world, and always has been, that it must have an effect in how we all see each other sexually. Even people who are not homophobic, misogynist, or repressed cannot fully escape the effects of the existence of those things in the world. So, you're not homophobic for not being aroused by gay porn. But if there were no such thing as homophobia (ever), maybe a lot more straight men would be aroused by gay porn. Not all, maybe, but more. There's a huge difference.
And then, for women who are aroused by a wide variety of porn, this is where the simplicity lies: hot people getting it on--what's not to like? And why shouldn't that be the default position? Why should we be asking why women of all sexualities enjoy gay male porn, rather than asking why straight men don't? The answer may seem obvious to you--but understand that the answer to the opposite question is just as obvious to women who do like it. Porn is not the same as actual sexual experience or desire. There's no reason why someone wouldn't be aroused by a portrayal of an act they wouldn't or couldn't do in real life. I'm afraid the real answer to why we ask why the women do that rather than why the men don't is because we still live in a world where the male point-of-view is the default. Never more so than when we're talking about sex and porn.
Apologies for any generalizations, but they're part and parcel to the original topic.
posted by lampoil at 5:46 PM on February 3, 2009 [7 favorites]
I don't mind lesbian porn but generally I don't like watching it because for me it's like listening to a language that I don't speak and cannot recognize any part of. Just does not compute. I don't mind gay male porn because usually the guys have good bodies and are good looking. I can't say I "like" it but it intrigues me, sort of like this. I guess it's more of an intellectual curiosity kind of thing.
posted by fuse theorem at 6:43 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by fuse theorem at 6:43 PM on February 3, 2009
I think, as a women, it has everything to do with feeling (and hot guys), because regular porn usually has girls faking it and when you get two guys together its OBVIOUS that they're turned on and having a good time.
posted by Unred at 7:42 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by Unred at 7:42 PM on February 3, 2009
There's some gay stuff and straight stuff, and some fake and real stuff and some stuff with good-looking people and some other stuff without. Some of that stuff turns some people on. Other people don't like some of that stuff.
Do we even need to add "Film at eleven" here?
posted by tzikeh at 8:13 PM on February 3, 2009
Do we even need to add "Film at eleven" here?
posted by tzikeh at 8:13 PM on February 3, 2009
Unred: I think, as a women, it has everything to do with feeling (and hot guys), because regular porn usually has girls faking it and when you get two guys together its OBVIOUS that they're turned on and having a good time.
I don't know. The ability to have and maintain an erection, or even ejaculate (usually by one's own hand) seems like a pretty low bar to set on "enjoyment."
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:15 PM on February 3, 2009
I don't know. The ability to have and maintain an erection, or even ejaculate (usually by one's own hand) seems like a pretty low bar to set on "enjoyment."
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:15 PM on February 3, 2009
Well, i'm glad that some women enjoy it, because I as a gay man often can't see the appeal. Those over-masculine hunks in 99% of gay porn I saw are imho just off-putting.
Yep. And especially in the more 'macho' end of the spectrum, the sex seems to be all about hate. Now don't get me wrong--I like a good hate-fuck as much as the next fag. But there's just this sort of... derision, almost, this degradation that has nothing to do with play-acting 'Suck my dick, faggot' dom/sub stuff, and seems to be this actual hatred for whoever's getting fucked. I mean.. when I watch porn, what I want to see is a couple of hot guys going "hey wow, you're hot, let's have some hot sexy sex." Fuck the stories, fuck the acting, just have some hot sex--and you can pretty much always tell when there's a genuine attraction.
I may be overthinking thisbucket of cocks plate of beans.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:13 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yep. And especially in the more 'macho' end of the spectrum, the sex seems to be all about hate. Now don't get me wrong--I like a good hate-fuck as much as the next fag. But there's just this sort of... derision, almost, this degradation that has nothing to do with play-acting 'Suck my dick, faggot' dom/sub stuff, and seems to be this actual hatred for whoever's getting fucked. I mean.. when I watch porn, what I want to see is a couple of hot guys going "hey wow, you're hot, let's have some hot sexy sex." Fuck the stories, fuck the acting, just have some hot sex--and you can pretty much always tell when there's a genuine attraction.
I may be overthinking this
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:13 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
TypographicalError: when hellbound said "If you remove homophobia and repression, you may just find that horny people get off on watching other people get off" he wasn't accusing you personally of homophobia. Why do you assume homophobia only impacts straight people's libido? Might it not also affect gay people's libido? I've heard some gay men talking about how disgusting they find women -- couldn't this be exaggerated reaction against homophobia? And what he said is that if you remove the distorting effects of homophobia and repression, you might find that people get off on people getting off.
I think it might be a bit more complicated than that, but "people get off on people getting off" is at least as good of a baseline expectation as "people get off on the other gender".
posted by creasy boy at 1:14 AM on February 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think it might be a bit more complicated than that, but "people get off on people getting off" is at least as good of a baseline expectation as "people get off on the other gender".
posted by creasy boy at 1:14 AM on February 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
There's no reason why someone wouldn't be aroused by a portrayal of an act they wouldn't or couldn't do in real life.
Uh, 'cause they don't like it?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:47 AM on February 4, 2009
Uh, 'cause they don't like it?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:47 AM on February 4, 2009
I think that part of the reason I like gay male porn is that it doesn't involve women. Therefore, there is no chance that I'd be there, or have to live up to the bizarre expectations of porn. So, the very improbability of ever being in a situation like that makes it purely enjoyable fantasy.
Lesbian here, if that isn't obvious.
posted by QIbHom at 6:54 AM on February 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
Lesbian here, if that isn't obvious.
posted by QIbHom at 6:54 AM on February 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
Uh, 'cause they don't like it?
Well, yeah, but what I mean is that there's a difference between not liking to do something and not liking to watch something. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to watch something you also wouldn't like to do or couldn't do, but that doesn't mean we should assume that it's always going to be the case. Especially when, obviously, a lot of people feel differently for reasons that seem just as obvious and natural. Know what I mean?
posted by lampoil at 7:32 AM on February 4, 2009
Well, yeah, but what I mean is that there's a difference between not liking to do something and not liking to watch something. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to watch something you also wouldn't like to do or couldn't do, but that doesn't mean we should assume that it's always going to be the case. Especially when, obviously, a lot of people feel differently for reasons that seem just as obvious and natural. Know what I mean?
posted by lampoil at 7:32 AM on February 4, 2009
Female friend of mine says she likes gay porn cause the guys are actually hot, unlike straight porn, and you can actually see them. No disembodied cocks from just off camera.
posted by The Whelk at 8:02 AM on February 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 8:02 AM on February 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm confused by the use of the term "genderqueer dyke", and for once wikipedia ain't helping.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:42 PM on February 4, 2009
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:42 PM on February 4, 2009
Hm. I can't stand men in my porn. Nor can I stand it when the ladies have fake nails. Definitely, I prefer woman-on-woman in a manner that was made for women (or dudes who like 'em au naturale).
posted by sadiehawkinstein at 3:59 PM on February 4, 2009
posted by sadiehawkinstein at 3:59 PM on February 4, 2009
I'll chime in as a bi male who can't stand straight porn. At the risk of conveying just a bit too much knowledge on the subject, I'll go on.
The men, yes, fugly. But the real problem is the women. I like women just fine, but, like, jeez. Women in porn are practically cyborgs from outer space. The spherical breasts, the orange tan, the long fingernails (How is that hot? HOW???), the bleach-blonde extensions, and dear god, the makeup. Most of all though, the most artificial part of all: The enthusiasm.
I think one thing women might appreciate in gay porn, the thing that might even come as something of a revelation, is that gay porn is not big on vocalization. There's not a lot of that bullshit "OH YEAH!" and "FUCK ME HARDER!" and "OH! OH! OH!" that is straight porn's stock and trade. It's there only occasionally, and in those instances, dialed down significantly. Gay porn generally just depicts two people fucking, with occasional utterances: Whispers, heavy breathing, maybe a muttered word, at most a moan. The performers don't belt out their lines to the back row like their high-heeled counterparts tend to.
But of course, there's a reason for that: The degree of a male recipient's enjoyment is made apparent rather more directly.
One thing about that particular moment in gay porn that I would like to highlight for any straight folks still cheating themselves and their partners with the unfortunate notion that it's entirely His job to make Her, ahem, appreciative: See what that bottom is doing there? Maintaining his own, uh, interest? Try doing that.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:30 PM on February 4, 2009 [5 favorites]
The men, yes, fugly. But the real problem is the women. I like women just fine, but, like, jeez. Women in porn are practically cyborgs from outer space. The spherical breasts, the orange tan, the long fingernails (How is that hot? HOW???), the bleach-blonde extensions, and dear god, the makeup. Most of all though, the most artificial part of all: The enthusiasm.
I think one thing women might appreciate in gay porn, the thing that might even come as something of a revelation, is that gay porn is not big on vocalization. There's not a lot of that bullshit "OH YEAH!" and "FUCK ME HARDER!" and "OH! OH! OH!" that is straight porn's stock and trade. It's there only occasionally, and in those instances, dialed down significantly. Gay porn generally just depicts two people fucking, with occasional utterances: Whispers, heavy breathing, maybe a muttered word, at most a moan. The performers don't belt out their lines to the back row like their high-heeled counterparts tend to.
But of course, there's a reason for that: The degree of a male recipient's enjoyment is made apparent rather more directly.
One thing about that particular moment in gay porn that I would like to highlight for any straight folks still cheating themselves and their partners with the unfortunate notion that it's entirely His job to make Her, ahem, appreciative: See what that bottom is doing there? Maintaining his own, uh, interest? Try doing that.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:30 PM on February 4, 2009 [5 favorites]
I like women just fine, but, like, jeez. Women in porn are practically cyborgs from outer space.
Another poll of female friends, gay straight and bi, says the same thing: Women in porn are weird looking and you end up with lots of "Ew why do they look like that?"/"Do guys want me to look like that?" mental worry that tends to off cut enjoyment.
The degree of a male recipient's enjoyment is made apparent rather more directly
One gal, a lesbian with male encounters in her past, said that, at least in the gay porn she likes, there is very little degradation. No "you're a stupid fucking slut fuck hole!" or whatever. It's silent or it's mutual, and everyone is clearly getting off and having a time without needing to turn the person into a slut, a whore, or something beneath them.
I know that's not true of some harder gay porn, or even some common FLAVORS of it, but the verbal insults seems a lot less common. I am shocked when I see het porn, just how much time is spent making the girls feel like low class slutbuckets. They have to be turned into an object before they can be enjoyed. It was very ...weird.
(again, this is a huge generalization, there are many studios and models trying really hard to counteract this stuff, but I'm referring to what I see as the mainstream or what I've seen a lot of.)
posted by The Whelk at 6:56 PM on February 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
Another poll of female friends, gay straight and bi, says the same thing: Women in porn are weird looking and you end up with lots of "Ew why do they look like that?"/"Do guys want me to look like that?" mental worry that tends to off cut enjoyment.
The degree of a male recipient's enjoyment is made apparent rather more directly
One gal, a lesbian with male encounters in her past, said that, at least in the gay porn she likes, there is very little degradation. No "you're a stupid fucking slut fuck hole!" or whatever. It's silent or it's mutual, and everyone is clearly getting off and having a time without needing to turn the person into a slut, a whore, or something beneath them.
I know that's not true of some harder gay porn, or even some common FLAVORS of it, but the verbal insults seems a lot less common. I am shocked when I see het porn, just how much time is spent making the girls feel like low class slutbuckets. They have to be turned into an object before they can be enjoyed. It was very ...weird.
(again, this is a huge generalization, there are many studios and models trying really hard to counteract this stuff, but I'm referring to what I see as the mainstream or what I've seen a lot of.)
posted by The Whelk at 6:56 PM on February 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
"Methinks they are scared of teh gay, but who knows."
Well if you are a male who enjoys looking at a man with an erect penis that is pretty fucking gay, isn't it?
posted by carfilhiot at 12:01 AM on February 5, 2009
Gay man here. Once upon a time, in my far-off youth, I viewed a straight porn film in one of those booths in a book store. I viewed it again. And again. It was one of the hottest things I'd ever seen.
Why on earth? Lots of reasons. I was HORNY, like most youths, and like most youths of the time (all times?) I wasn't getting enough of what I wanted. As a youth, I was about 95% bottom. So here I was watching a porn movie of a chunky woman being raped by a few men. Oh, yes, the men weren't hot. No, but they did look more like the reality in which I lived. And they had huge, beautiful, aggressive cocks, that would not take 'no' as an answer.
Part of this is rather simple: as a relatively rare out gay teenager, I was pursued by men who wanted my cock. It's not like I was a pretty boy, I wasn't (not ugly, but until maturity reached my face, I was about as plain as could be.). I was tall and broad, and looked like I should play football. Even the men who's desires more complimented my own were far too polite to be aggressive enough, most of the time (and of course, if they weren't, I didn't stick around. Ugly and polite wins over handsome and rude, in my book!).
So this particular film just offered a safe visual of fantasies that were unobtainable. The fact the victim was female was entirely irrelevant (I'd seen stills of similar gay action, and enjoyed it hugely).
posted by Goofyy at 1:43 AM on February 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Why on earth? Lots of reasons. I was HORNY, like most youths, and like most youths of the time (all times?) I wasn't getting enough of what I wanted. As a youth, I was about 95% bottom. So here I was watching a porn movie of a chunky woman being raped by a few men. Oh, yes, the men weren't hot. No, but they did look more like the reality in which I lived. And they had huge, beautiful, aggressive cocks, that would not take 'no' as an answer.
Part of this is rather simple: as a relatively rare out gay teenager, I was pursued by men who wanted my cock. It's not like I was a pretty boy, I wasn't (not ugly, but until maturity reached my face, I was about as plain as could be.). I was tall and broad, and looked like I should play football. Even the men who's desires more complimented my own were far too polite to be aggressive enough, most of the time (and of course, if they weren't, I didn't stick around. Ugly and polite wins over handsome and rude, in my book!).
So this particular film just offered a safe visual of fantasies that were unobtainable. The fact the victim was female was entirely irrelevant (I'd seen stills of similar gay action, and enjoyed it hugely).
posted by Goofyy at 1:43 AM on February 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Oh, I'll add the caveat that I seem to be relatively rare in that I vastly prefer still photos to film for porn. Still photos never say the wrong thing, never do the opposite of what I wish. I am often puzzled by the popularity of video. But then, my own fantasies are tailored to what I like.
posted by Goofyy at 1:47 AM on February 5, 2009
posted by Goofyy at 1:47 AM on February 5, 2009
One gal, a lesbian with male encounters in her past, said that, at least in the gay porn she likes, there is very little degradation.
A good point. I have long assumed my minimal interest in porn as an adult was because I had long ago discovered flesh-and-blood women were a lot more engaging than the paper or videotape ones. However, I have also noticed that every time I have seen a skin flick in the last ten years, I have been turned off by all the, well, spitting.
In a word, anerotic. In less than a word, ew.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:27 AM on February 5, 2009
A good point. I have long assumed my minimal interest in porn as an adult was because I had long ago discovered flesh-and-blood women were a lot more engaging than the paper or videotape ones. However, I have also noticed that every time I have seen a skin flick in the last ten years, I have been turned off by all the, well, spitting.
In a word, anerotic. In less than a word, ew.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:27 AM on February 5, 2009
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
David K.: But what about in gay porn, where there’s a group of men cumming on another male actor?
Virginia Peters: Oh, that's just football.
Not particularly enlightening, but amusing.
posted by LMGM at 2:03 PM on February 3, 2009 [2 favorites]