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August 13, 2011 4:43 PM   Subscribe

Rep. Michelle Bachmann has won the Ames Straw Poll. Rep. Ron Paul came in a close second. This poll, though undemocratic, has a fairly good predictive track record. Since 1979, the winner or runner up has gone on to win the Iowa caucuses each time.

Gov. Tim Pawlenty failed to take one of the top spots despite making a significant effort and attempting to challenge Bachmann's leadership skills in a recent debate. Gov. Rick Perry (Parry?) who officially announced his candidacy today earned 718 write in votes. The frontrunner for the Republican nomination, Gov. Mitt Romney, received 567 votes. The Iowa caucuses are set to take place on February 6, 2012.
posted by furiousxgeorge (457 comments total) 18 users marked this as a favorite

 
It's making me nervous
posted by kuatto at 4:43 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


I think, with those results, we know all we need to know about the straw poll.......
posted by y6y6y6 at 4:45 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Bachmann is more frightening as a candidate than even Sarah Palin. The recent New Yorker article on her philosophical and intellectual influences (accompanied by an excellent Fresh Air interview with the author of the piece) gave me the willies.
posted by hippybear at 4:46 PM on August 13, 2011 [35 favorites]


I'm gonna sing the Doom Song now: doom-doomdoom-doom-doomdoom...

[6 MONTHS LATER]
Breaking: Michele Bachmann wins Iowa caucuses!
...doom-doom-doom-doomdoom-doom...
posted by Rhaomi at 4:47 PM on August 13, 2011 [28 favorites]


I don't see how Bachmann can afford to let Perry siphon off even a small amount of her Tea support. She's going to have to attack him directly. He's bound to reply in kind. He may not be overscrupulous about bringing her gender into it.

This should be fun to watch.
posted by Trurl at 4:48 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


One of my favorite lines from the Economist liveblog of the recent debates: "I have never been as sure of anything as Michele Bachmann is of everything."
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:49 PM on August 13, 2011 [122 favorites]


In 78 and 79, I would have bet my house (if I owned one then) that there was no way the United States of America would ever elect Ronald Reagan for president.

So my sense of tranquility about this, and the election, is worth about a bucket of cold corndogs.
posted by Danf at 4:50 PM on August 13, 2011 [22 favorites]


Meh, I don't care what Matt Taibi says Bachmann could never attract enough sane people to win the election, so she was a big hope for me. She'd do a lot to discredit the Republicans in the eyes of many if she won the nomination.

Perry fucking terrifies me though. I think he'll win the nomination easily and then, who knows.

Imagine a smarter more mean-spirited GWB.
posted by tempythethird at 4:51 PM on August 13, 2011 [20 favorites]


Are corndogs from Iowa or something?
posted by Beardman at 4:51 PM on August 13, 2011


Doom?

What?

This is GREAT NEWS.

Michele Bachmann is genuinely stupid and delusional. Perry and Romney are the dangerous ones. They're smart enough to dissemble smoothly and seem reasonable. Bachmann's a crackpot from the get-go. She's TOAST in a general election.

Go, Michele, go.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 4:52 PM on August 13, 2011 [62 favorites]


This is why I sincerely do not understand why some folks claim it is a red herring to point out how scary the opposition is when discussing Presidential politics. I have been told countless time here at MeFi that I am appealing to fear when I suggest a vote for Obama, despite how he may have personally disappointed you in the first 3 years of his term, is certainly better than the alternative (or sitting out, which is much the same thing).

This is the alternative.

This is fucking scary.
posted by joe lisboa at 4:54 PM on August 13, 2011 [45 favorites]


Bachmann is more frightening as a candidate than even Sarah Palin.

She's in town.

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin visited the Iowa State Fair as speculation about a possible presidential bid is mounting. The 2008 GOP vice presidential nominee has said she'll decide by the end of summer whether to get into the crowded race.

Trying to sustain the pretense after that wouldn't fool even a Palin supporter.
posted by Trurl at 4:54 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


Are corndogs from Iowa or something?

Corn is a very popular product in the state of Iowa, yes. A lot of last minute campaigning was done at the Iowa State Fair, where corn dogs are a popular foodstuff. There is absolutely no other reason I would mention corn dogs and Michelle Bachmann, I promise you.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 4:55 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


“I find it interesting that it was back in the nineteen-seventies that the swine flu broke out then under another Democrat President, Jimmy Carter. And I’m not blaming this on President Obama—I just think it’s an interesting coincidence.”

I was drinking when I read this, and now there's an uncomfortable amount of limeade lodged in my sinuses.

hippybear, thank you so much for that link!
posted by phunniemee at 4:55 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


She's TOAST in a general election.
Given the current economy, if the Republicans nominated Grumpy Smurf, I would think there was a good chance we were going to end up with President Grumpy. I think we have to assume that any Republican nominee could get elected. I agree that Perry (especially) and Romney seem more viable, but the idea of Bachmann getting the nomination is flat-out terrifying.

I don't think it'll happen, though. She's been getting awfully gentle coverage in Iowa, and I suspect at some point the media will start honing in on what a wack-job she is.
posted by craichead at 4:55 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Bachmann's a crackpot from the get-go. She's TOAST in a general election.

80% of me agrees with you, the rest is scared shitless.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:56 PM on August 13, 2011 [72 favorites]


I just read that New Yorker profile this afternoon (it's actually LOL funny how brazen her distortions have been) and it left me feeling quite relieved: that there's just no way a majority of Americans would vote for this person. But then I remember the summer of 2000, and my feeling just as reassured by their profile of Gore, that there was no way he could lose the election against the buffoon Bush. Who knows!
posted by Flashman at 4:56 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


Trying to sustain the pretense after that wouldn't fool even a Palin supporter.

Well put, Trurl. Well put. No way Palin declares. Simply no way. She is a grifter through and through.
posted by joe lisboa at 4:56 PM on August 13, 2011


Bachmann is more frightening as a candidate than even Sarah Palin.

Seriously. Sarah Palin as a candidate is good for endless lulz, because there is little evidence that she is anything but a failure and a cretin. Bachmann terrifies me because she's actually got a brain, even if it's full of epic fucking crazy.

On preview: oh god, Perry. I can't even. How can a man who threatened to secede his state actually run for president of the rest of the states he spat on? DOES NO ONE ELSE SEE THE IRONY.


brb huddling under blankie watching kittens ride roombas
posted by elizardbits at 4:56 PM on August 13, 2011 [64 favorites]


This is why I sincerely do not understand why some folks claim it is a red herring to point out how scary the opposition is when discussing Presidential politics.

Because as long as you can fillibuster in the Senate the president is very weak, they don't get to be dictators who make whatever laws they want, they have to find the votes.

Bachmann would not be able to pass her crazy just like Obama can't pass the good stuff. Supreme Court positions are the major issue you need to decide to sacrifice if you want to go third party or whatever. That matters to some people more than to others.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 4:57 PM on August 13, 2011


Ummm, as a Minnesotan (fortunately not in Bachmann's district), I've thought for years that she was too much of a crackpot to: A) be re-elected to the MN Senate (redistricted seat); B) be elected to the US House; C) be re-elected twice; and D) be taken seriously as a Presidential candidate.

I'm terrified.
posted by Ickster at 4:57 PM on August 13, 2011 [16 favorites]


A lot of last minute campaigning was done at the Iowa State Fair, where corn dogs are a popular foodstuff.

Not only corndogs, but all manner of "food on a stick" deep fried products.
posted by hippybear at 4:57 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


At this point, I plan on voting for Bachmann all the way. Perhaps if things get bad enough fast enough, there will still be something left for when sanity returns and we start the reconstruction. And if there isn't... well Europe in general has a negative population growth rate, or it will soon. I think that I would like it better there.

Seriously, the climate in this county right now is one where the little guy is going to get screwed, the truth teller is going to get sued, and whether or not you can get any justice is dependent upon your social class and bank account. It can go on this way for a long time, but unless something shocking happens, it won't change. I think Bachmann can deliver that shock and she's the woman for the job.
posted by 517 at 4:58 PM on August 13, 2011 [12 favorites]


because she's actually got a brain

compared to Palin, I mean. not compared to actual humans.
posted by elizardbits at 4:58 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


Are corndogs from Iowa or something?

Corn is a very popular product in the state of Iowa, yes.


Oh yeah! I actually forgot there was corn in those things.
posted by Beardman at 4:58 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


Everyone, please please vote for Obama. I know he kicked your dog, I know so much promise went unfulfilled but really, I am asking you, for my sake, I am not even going to try to use logic or reason, just vote for him.
posted by Ad hominem at 4:59 PM on August 13, 2011 [20 favorites]


*gasp* Somebody who was born in Iowa won an Iowa poll? I'm surprised people are taking this seriously.
posted by IAmDrWorm at 4:59 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Oops. I meant to link directly to the "food on a stick" page.
posted by hippybear at 4:59 PM on August 13, 2011


If it came down to Obama vs Bachmann and there was 100% fully verified and incontrovertible evidence that Obama drank kitten blood and planned to enslave all the white people he would still get my vote.
posted by elizardbits at 5:01 PM on August 13, 2011 [86 favorites]


Supreme Court positions are the major issue you need to decide to sacrifice if you want to go third party or whatever. That matters to some people more than to others.

It should matter to us all. Lifetime appointments for those who decide the supreme law of the land is no fucking joke.
posted by joe lisboa at 5:02 PM on August 13, 2011 [6 favorites]


brb huddling under blankie watching kittens ride roombas

do you have room under there for me and my box of cheez-its?

posted by palomar at 5:02 PM on August 13, 2011 [8 favorites]


You know, I already regret bringing up 2012 on the Dem side. I squandered a perfectly good opportunity for lefties and liberals and centrists alike to point at the GOP field and say: You have GOT to be fucking kidding me.
posted by joe lisboa at 5:04 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


It should matter to us all. Lifetime appointments for those who decide the supreme law of the land is no fucking joke.

Sure, the reason I don't care is that I agree with the conservative justices on some issues, so I care that they are competent but I don't particularly care who is nominating them.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 5:04 PM on August 13, 2011


[insert SERENA JOY '12 joke here]
posted by pxe2000 at 5:05 PM on August 13, 2011 [7 favorites]


villanelles at dawn: thanks for the link to the Economist liveblog. Some excellent zingers in there.
posted by adamrice at 5:06 PM on August 13, 2011


brb huddling under blankie watching kittens ride roombas

do you have room under there for me and my box of cheez-its?


I brought an extra blanket, and some pie - is there room for me, too?

posted by rtha at 5:07 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


I live in Berlin and my two German roommates consume a strange amount of domestic US news, which I think they do for "you can't make this shit up" lulz. Do Americans realize that we're so bizarre and entertaining that foreigners actually end up knowing what the fuck a straw poll is?
posted by tempythethird at 5:07 PM on August 13, 2011 [28 favorites]


"At this point, I plan on voting for Bachmann all the way. Perhaps if things get bad enough fast enough, there will still be something left for when sanity returns and we start the reconstruction. And if there isn't... well Europe in general has a negative population growth rate, or it will soon. I think that I would like it better there. "

If you're gonna go for an insane nihilist program, can you at least stay home? I remember so many folks giving the "It'll get worse, then they'll love us liberals!" bullshit before 2000 and 2004, but it didn't fucking work. It's like conservatives saying that cutting taxes at the top leads to better tax returns for the country — it's perverse on its face and foolish in practice.
posted by klangklangston at 5:11 PM on August 13, 2011 [27 favorites]


"At this point, I plan on voting for Bachmann all the way."

My IRC channel has a classic quote about this:

<mike> i'm gonna start voting republican
<C_V> no you're not
<mike> because if i can't fix things i'm sure as hell gonna accelerate the decline
<C_V> it's one of those things like "I'm just gonna catch my own jizz in my mouth" and then you stop at the last second because you realize that's not a good idea
posted by shii at 5:12 PM on August 13, 2011 [39 favorites]


it is a big blankie no worries.
posted by elizardbits at 5:12 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


From the Talking Points Memo live feed on Ames:
Ames: The End Of Palin?

Well, today may not have quite been Doomsday for Pawlenty, but it may well have been for Sarah Palin. First, Perry gets in and sucks up a lot of her oxygen. He's a red-meat hurlin' Republican who - unlike her - ain't no quitter.

Then, of course, there's Bachmann's emergence as the new glamorous, crazy-eyed know-nothing of the right.

And, tellingly, Dave Wiegel of Slate tweets this:

Fewer than 1% non-Perry write-in votes, which means fewer than 1% for Palin.

Ouch.
posted by joe lisboa at 5:13 PM on August 13, 2011


Rep. Michelle Bachmann has won the Ames Straw Poll.

That's one small step for theocracy...
posted by Thorzdad at 5:13 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


furiousxgeorge: " Because as long as you can fillibuster in the Senate the president is very weak, they don't get to be dictators who make whatever laws they want, they have to find the votes."

The playing field in Washington isn't level, and never has been. You have to cajole and weedle and play ugly procedural games even with large majorities to corral all the various special interests and pocketed politicians into supporting halfway-decent policy. But rounding up the votes to do utterly atrocious stuff is easy as long as it will bring in the campaign dollars.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:13 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


In other words: Good government is hard to create, and oh so easy to destroy.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:14 PM on August 13, 2011 [6 favorites]


This poll, though undemocratic, has a fairly good predictive track record.

President Huckabee disagrees, I'm sure.

As for the Perry candidacy, James Carville said last month: "I think he should run. Anyone who has advocated secession should run for the Presidency of the United States. Besides, he's not too bright, and he loves to talk. That's a combination I like in Republicans."
posted by Benny Andajetz at 5:15 PM on August 13, 2011 [19 favorites]


Why Is Rick Perry the Poster Boy for Limited Government?
posted by homunculus at 5:16 PM on August 13, 2011


President Huckabee disagrees, I'm sure.

Predictive track record with respect to the Iowa caucus, not the nomination per se.
posted by joe lisboa at 5:16 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


Do Americans realize that we're so bizarre and entertaining that foreigners actually end up knowing what the fuck a straw poll is?

It's a hell of a lot more fun than Canadian politics.
Pass das Popcorn!
posted by Flashman at 5:17 PM on August 13, 2011


That's one small step for theocracy...

Crusaders with nukes. That will end well.
posted by rodgerd at 5:17 PM on August 13, 2011


In other words: Good government is hard to create, and oh so easy to destroy.

Sure, if the other party lets you do it, but I don't see why a party like the Democrats who are so much better than the Republicans would let that happen.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 5:18 PM on August 13, 2011


This poll, though undemocratic, has a fairly good predictive track record.

THE importance of the Iowa straw poll is open to question. Since 1980 there have been five such contests. On three occasions, the person who won the straw poll went on to win the state's caucus (Bush Sr, Dole, Bush Jr). On two occasions, the person who won the straw poll went on to win the Republican nomination (Dole, Bush Jr). And on only one occasion has the person who won the straw poll gone on to win the presidency (Bush Jr).

- The Economist

posted by triggerfinger at 5:19 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


I really am starting to wonder how I'm going to hold onto my sanity through this next election cycle. I may end up totally losing it. Please allow me to apologize in advance for ending up on the evening news, running around in a field gibbering and wailing with my pants around my ankles.

Shit, maybe I should run for President.
posted by palomar at 5:20 PM on August 13, 2011 [10 favorites]


One of the things that studying North Korea has done for me is force me to realize that the human capacity for enduring suffering is, essentially, infinite. During the mid-90's famine, people would literally bury their emaciated children, show up for work (you couldn't take days off work for famine deaths. Because there were no famine deaths. Because, officially, there was no famine.) and praise the Dear Leader for making North Korea the best country on Earth.

I think it's ultimately foolish to hope that "things get so bad that people will be forced to open their eyes" or whatever. It's possible that things could never get that bad. It is perfectly, reasonably possible that America could keep sliding to the right indefinitely, and with each passing year we could find some new minority group or enemy nation to blame our ever growing list of problems on.

Bachmann and her ilk need to be defeated on the merits of their beliefs. The world needs to see that we (who are opposed to her) have a coherent, rational alternative to the anarcho-corporatist-theocracy that the GOP (and more than a few dems) are currently foisting upon us.

I would say that coherent, rational alternative is Democratic Socialism, but that puts me pretty far out there, even for Metafilter.

So, any takers?
posted by Avenger at 5:21 PM on August 13, 2011 [174 favorites]


"If you're gonna go for an insane nihilist program, can you at least stay home? I remember so many folks giving the "It'll get worse, then they'll love us liberals!" bullshit before 2000 and 2004, but it didn't fucking work. It's like conservatives saying that cutting taxes at the top leads to better tax returns for the country — it's perverse on its face and foolish in practice."

You're still thinking in terms of liberal and conservative. I'm thinking in terms of criminals sucking the wealth of this country out as fast as they can, and the people trying to make a life and build infrastructure here. I don't care if the reconstruction is done by liberals or conservatives, as long as it is done by honest people who follow the law and act in their best approximation of the common good. We don't have anyone like that in Washington right now, or at least anyone who can act like it, partially because their is an inconsistency in the media voices of the nation.

The voices of the national media are all pro-business, pro- financial quarter, and they have to be because the only functional model of a media network right now is one based on the quasi-capitalist system. The result is that the people have no voice with which they can address themselves and their interests, so we are only seeing the interests of business being addressed in the national media.

I think that it has to get so bad in this country that people start considering communism, or some modern equvalent again in order to restore balance to the system and allow for the creation of some sort of network that would allow the people to address themselves and their needs.

If anyone can make things bad enough for people to start considering something like this, it is Bachmann.
posted by 517 at 5:21 PM on August 13, 2011 [8 favorites]


You want to something scary? Watch Rachel Maddow's piece on Rick Perry's ties with Christian Dominionists. (disclaimer: I stole the President Huckabee quip from this clip.)
posted by Benny Andajetz at 5:21 PM on August 13, 2011 [11 favorites]


MAD PREACHER WOMAN, QUICK!
posted by clavdivs at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2011


O.O
posted by The Whelk at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2011 [39 favorites]


The best GOP candidate in the filed got the fewest votes "the Butter Cow got three votes".
Butter Cow/Corn Dog 2012
posted by edgeways at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2011 [13 favorites]


I don't care what Matt Taibi says Bachmann could never attract enough sane people to win the election

I'm starting to doubt that we actually have a plurality* of sane people in this country.

*at this point I am very sure we don't have a majority of sane people.
posted by winna at 5:23 PM on August 13, 2011 [8 favorites]


I remember some interview Minnesota Public Radio did with Michelle Bachmann where they asked her about some blatantly false things she had said. She just ignored the question and barrelled on to some quasi-related talking point. That was when I officially started being scared of her.
posted by hoyland at 5:25 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


WARNING!!! Thar be monsters in The Whelk's link!
posted by palomar at 5:26 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


I don't care what Matt Taibi says Bachmann could never attract enough sane people to win the election

It's almost funny how you think that the sane people outnumber the fucking maniacs in this country, dude.


and by funny i mean oh god make it stop
posted by elizardbits at 5:26 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


She's TOAST in a general election.

Yes she would be, in a general election. In actual fact, she'll be running against Democrats. You know them. That's the party whose motto is "to defeat your enemy, become them". If Bachmann is worse than Palin, then Palin must be a "lesser evil". So Obama becomes Palin. He may win, but we'll all lose.
posted by DU at 5:28 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


ALL PLAY AND NO JESUS MAKES BACH A DULL GIRL

and then she's all stab stab stab and then we run screaming through the snowy maze
posted by elizardbits at 5:28 PM on August 13, 2011 [16 favorites]


If Bachmann is worse than Palin, then Palin must be a "lesser evil". So Obama becomes Palin. He may win, but we'll all lose.

This is totally divorced from anything remotely approaching reality.
posted by joe lisboa at 5:28 PM on August 13, 2011 [8 favorites]


winna: " I'm starting to doubt that we actually have a plurality* of sane people in this country.

*at this point I am very sure we don't have a majority of sane people.
"

I'm pretty sure we do, but a painfully large percentage of them don't friggin' vote. The turnout rate of eligible voters in the historic, bitterly fought 2008 election was in the low 60s... and that was the highest it had been in forty years. There's a reason polls of all Americans look so much more reasonable than polls of registered voters, let alone likely voters.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:30 PM on August 13, 2011 [5 favorites]


Do Americans realize that we're so bizarre and entertaining that foreigners actually end up knowing what the fuck a straw poll is?

I know, why we are acquised of it's export is simply baffling.
posted by clavdivs at 5:31 PM on August 13, 2011


The absolutely crazy right is around 25-30% of the population at least. This number represents the people who approved of Bush at the end of his term and liked Palin after she lost and resigned. I don't think you can get quite up to a majority when you add in the crazy lefties and crazy moderates, but it's close.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 5:31 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


The Whelk I'm sitting here fussing with illustrator listening to dreamy surfy music then I click that link oh god i was going to go to bed now I can't go to bed why did you do that scared.
posted by tempythethird at 5:34 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


One person who might oppose Perry: Karl Rove.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 5:34 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty sure we do, but a painfully large percentage of them don't friggin' vote.

I know a surprisingly large number of people who don't vote. Some of them seem just thoroughly disinterested in news or current events in general so it's not really surprising that they take no interest in politics or exercising their right to vote, but the ones that really surprise me are the ones who really really want things to change. Like my friend Steve, who is gay, descended from illegal immigrants, and a medicinal marijuana user. He really really really wants to get married someday, he thinks immigration laws need to change and prison reform also needs to happen in a very drastic way, and of course he's pro-legalization of all kinds of things... but if you ask him who he voted for in the last presidential election, he'll tell you that all politicians tell the same lies and live in the pockets of the same corrupt businessmen and nothing the common man does is going to help. Sometimes I want very much to hit Steve upside the head with a rolled-up newspaper for being so damned stupid.
posted by palomar at 5:37 PM on August 13, 2011 [13 favorites]


She creeps people out, not good. The pubber with the anti war gig will steal the steam and re-direct the "discourse", expect it.

they are strumming
they are region-like
they always forget

posted by clavdivs at 5:37 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


To people hoping one of the two major parties in the U.S. keeps nominating crazies for public office, because "they have no chance in the general:"

You know what? One of these years the impossible is going to happen and the totally unelectable candidate is going to win the general and it's not going to be so funny then. Bachmann might sink the GOP's chances in 2012, Palin might have sunk them in 2008, but on a long enough timeline it's a virtual guarantee that we'll elect a president that believes that they are accountable to no one but their god. We are much too close to that for comfort.
posted by 2bucksplus at 5:42 PM on August 13, 2011 [14 favorites]


Yeah, remember when minority opposition forced GWB to back down from starting two wars and passing a trillion dollar tax cut for the rich?

Well no, I remember a minority that supported those wars. I remember a minority that prevented those tax cuts from expiring. Minority power is potent if you use it.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 5:42 PM on August 13, 2011 [6 favorites]



Bachmann would not be able to pass her crazy just like Obama can't pass the good stuff.

Yeah, remember when minority opposition forced GWB to back down from starting two wars and passing a trillion dollar tax cut for the rich?

The playing field in Washington isn't level, and never has been. You have to cajole and weedle and play ugly procedural games even with large majorities to corral all the various special interests and pocketed politicians into supporting halfway-decent policy. But rounding up the votes to do utterly atrocious stuff is easy as long as it will bring in the campaign dollars.


Washington is wired for Republican control. Even fucking crazy ass Bachmann or Perry would walk into a near supermajority in the Senate at least. 40-50 Teabaggers + 20 or so Blue Dogs and easily cowed weaklings who will fall all over themselves to appease the new GOP Daddy in the White House gives the Baggers one house of congress. Senate Dems especially can't be trusted to stand up for anything, they've either idiotically or knowingly bought into 90% of the Tea Party framing on economic issues already. At a minimum it'd be tax cuts and spending cuts for as far as the eye can see, and invading either Yemen or Syria would probably be a given, if not Iran.

There could be a slight possibility of a Democratic House even if the Confederate Party ousts Obama, in that case Pelosi and the progressive caucus would be cast in the position of the teabaggers right now, as the Party of No. Imagine how that'll play on FAUX News and in Rushistan.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:45 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


Texas Governor Rick Perry easily won Saturday's presidential straw poll at the Alabama Republican Party State Executive Committee's summer meeting.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 5:48 PM on August 13, 2011


You know what? One of these years the impossible is going to happen and the totally unelectable candidate is going to win the general and it's not going to be so funny then. Bachmann might sink the GOP's chances in 2012, Palin might have sunk them in 2008, but on a long enough timeline it's a virtual guarantee that we'll elect a president that believes that they are accountable to no one but their god. We are much too close to that for comfort.

I agree. This drives me crazy. It's like everyone already forgot 2001-2009!
posted by milarepa at 5:50 PM on August 13, 2011 [15 favorites]


Is this really going to be our next president?
posted by Renoroc at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Is this really going to be our next president?

She's got that guy's vote.
posted by 2bucksplus at 5:54 PM on August 13, 2011 [6 favorites]


I want to know the numbers on "Parry with an A." I am not a fan of Colbert, but his "hardcore cornography" hit home here in Iowa.
posted by charlie don't surf at 5:56 PM on August 13, 2011 [6 favorites]


Minority power is potent if you use it.

From your keyboard to the Democrats' ears... in my lifetime, I have not ever seen them make a serious effort to use it. Which is the point I was (badly) attempting to make.
posted by bashos_frog at 5:56 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm with tempy.

Rick Perry will be your most effective bogeyperson.
posted by Trurl at 5:56 PM on August 13, 2011


Markos called it.

Of course, it's fashionable for Dems to shit on him to maintain their "serious" credentials (LOL Michael Moore really is fat), but the dude is right more often than he's wrong.

Bachmann may be the only thing that keeps Obama from going down as a middling president, as opposed to a spineless and mediocre one.

Also, she puts the House back in play for Dems.
posted by bardic at 5:59 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yesterday on Morning Joe, Joe Scarborough went off on Michelle Bachmann, calling her, literally, a joke:

" Michele Bachmann's first answer, Mark Halperin, was "I wish the federal government had defaulted." Had defaulted, a week after Americans had lost--some of them perhaps lost half of their pensions. Lost half of their 401(k)s, when trillions of dollars went down the drain [pounds the table] with Americans suffering, she said that and got applause, and if anybody thinks that guys like my dad are going to be voting that way when this rolls out of Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina, in the early stages, and really gets going, they are out of their mind and they are too stupid not only to prognosticate, they are too stupid to run Slurpee machines in Des Moines. I'll let you go now. I got it off my chest.

Michele Bachmann is a joke. She is a joke. And now I will pass it on to you. Her answer is a joke, her candidacy is a joke, and anybody that sits here and says she has any chance of winning anything is out of their mind. Take your straw poll, take your caucus, but Iowa, if you let her win, you prove your irrelevance once again."

posted by Benny Andajetz at 5:59 PM on August 13, 2011 [13 favorites]


That's one small step for theocracy...

Crusaders with nukes. That will end well.


The missiles are flying. Hallelujah. Hallelujah.
posted by jokeefe at 5:59 PM on August 13, 2011


Would we be having this anxiety if Obama had been a better president?

Republicans blamed him for the economy even before his inauguration, but past a certain point in the timeline it stopped being totally wrong. He's been giving conservatives something to rally against (the economy, and his ethnicity among the crypto-racist scat-brains) while driving Dems and liberals further into chaos.

Whatever galvanizing properties candidate Obama had, he's more than fucked it up as president.

Had we been coming from the Bush era and dealing simply with the next blithering, mind-bending imbecile like Bachmann then, this conversation would be light-hearted slapstick. The left really needs a better candidate than the incumbent because their confidence has been betrayed, big time. A Democratic punching bag like Obama, who's only furthered the Bush era with a better vocabulary, is almost worse than a McCain-Palin victory, which would have at least pinned the blame on the party most responsible for, and representative of, the crap that got us here.

With his policies being so far right (seriously, I can't believe he even dignified the debt ceiling hype), unless a really strident and smart liberal candidate comes along that can get people beyond their mistrust for fancy speeches, I think the uphill battle against Bachmann, et al, will be getting people to vote at all.
posted by evil holiday magic at 6:03 PM on August 13, 2011 [21 favorites]


Well there you go - Obama wins a second term.
posted by Old'n'Busted at 6:04 PM on August 13, 2011


The mainstreaming of Rushdonney's dominonist policies, is interesting to me, because this nostalgia for a perfect america and a perfect christianity has been an american game since the beginning. I kept trying to trace it back, and i mean--it's Falwell/Roberts rship with Reagon, it's the after effects of the 70s, it's the cold war paranoia, it's the know nothing party, and pushing futher and further back, it's the Christian discourse around Lee, etc all the way back to Winthrop.

But it's also recursive as hell, almost nostalgic in it's constructions. So, Bachman and Beck both reading Hayek, as a mystic text, though no one has read Hayek seriously for years. Or Reagan purposely misquoting Winthrop. Or the position of slavery around the time as the civil war politicised, historicised, and sold back to home schooling classrooms.

It's not dog whistling--it's an entire culture of political upheavel, that is founded on a counter factual understanding of the American compact (In the puritan sense)

I don't know what to do about it...Ron Suskind's book about Paul O'Neil in the Bush White House is interesting, because it keeps documenting how Bush has a set of official discourses and agendas, and how nothing can deviate from those discourses. Bachman and Bush's shared faith have a lot of that in common.
posted by PinkMoose at 6:05 PM on August 13, 2011 [5 favorites]


Markos called it.

I will literally eat my hat if she gets the GOP nomination. I wish she would, in a certain sense, but there is no possible way the big money wing of the party lets an actual true believer jump through the fold. Perry (assuming he does not fold under the pressure of actual national press scrutiny) versus Romney seems to be the narrative here.

Then again, I could well be wrong. Nobody ever preserved their sanity overestimating the sanity of their fellow Americans.

Or misoverestimating, for that matter.
posted by joe lisboa at 6:06 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


I also think the clear and explicit discourses that follow Bachman, and the economic panic, will sink Obama's ambiguity.
posted by PinkMoose at 6:06 PM on August 13, 2011


With his policies being so far right (seriously, I can't believe he even dignified the debt ceiling hype)

Dude is not a dictator, as furiousxgeorge has aptly noted upthread. You can make bully-pulpit armchair quarterback comments if you like, but there is a political reality on the ground that is seriously fucked up, and largely due to an obstructionist and ignorant GOP-controlled House.

Separation of powers, and all that.
posted by joe lisboa at 6:08 PM on August 13, 2011 [10 favorites]


100% fully verified and incontrovertible evidence that Obama drank kitten blood and planned to enslave all the white people he would still get my vote.

You're wrong, it's rabbit blood.

He's been giving conservatives something to rally against (the economy, and his ethnicity among the crypto-racist scat-brains) while driving Dems and liberals further into chaos.

If rallying against the Republicans of 2010 and 2012 is such an effort, then I don't know what to say to ya'll.

My gut tells me it's Perry or Romney for the nomination, but Bachman won't give up easily.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:09 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


If Bachmann has a real chance, why is Intrade still so convinced that so convinced that can't win the primary? Unless something's going weird with the site, anyone who's sure she's going to win can buy some shares and make an easy 1600% return.
posted by abcde at 6:10 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


there is no possible way the big money wing of the party lets an actual true believer jump through the fold

Exhibit A
posted by Trurl at 6:10 PM on August 13, 2011


So: 1) the Presidency is a weak, impotent office before almighty Congress; 2) the urgency of re-electing Obama to that office outweighs all!
posted by gerryblog at 6:11 PM on August 13, 2011 [7 favorites]


Exhibit A

Exactly.
posted by joe lisboa at 6:11 PM on August 13, 2011


My gut tells me it's Perry or Romney for the nomination, but Bachman won't give up easily.

See, I don't find that close to comforting. Bachmann is crazy, but Perry is fucking dangerous. I can't believe that I'm saying that Romney is the "reasonable" one of the bunch.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:12 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


but Perry is fucking dangerous

That's ok in a guy at this point. He'll say manly things and promise to save us all for the awful sickness that is killing our country. A large mass of people will gladly be willing to sacrifice their children to him. Why, I bet he mends fences, on the ranch. You can never go wrong with that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:18 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Because as long as you can fillibuster in the Senate the president is very weak, they don't get to be dictators who make whatever laws they want, they have to find the votes.

How'd that work last time?
posted by Ironmouth at 6:18 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


I'd remain a bit wary of Bachmann even though I agree I'd eat my hat if she pulls it off. A year ago I doubt anyone suspected she was going to win Ames and torpedo Pawlenty's campaign in the process. She is a good campaigner and she will probably win Iowa. It will take a brilliant campaign manager to find a plausible path to the nomination after Iowa though.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:18 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


lol, memail me if you want to go over it again IM.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:20 PM on August 13, 2011


torpedo Pawlenty's campaign in the process

Pawlenty was never in this. Boy has no gravitas, he's just something for Bachmann and Perry to snack on.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:20 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


seriously if you two go at it again like wet chickens i will send mercenaries to both your houses dressed as Dick Cheney and Karl Rove and they will badtouch your pets.
posted by elizardbits at 6:21 PM on August 13, 2011 [27 favorites]


Rick Perry isn't good for Texas and he won't be good for the US if he gets to the White House.
posted by arcticseal at 6:22 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Bachman has a lot of money, a big organization and isn't afraid to say what she thinks, which happens to be what most of the Republican primary voters believe. She isn't Pat Buchannan and her base is broader than Ron Paul. Joe Scarborough may not like her, but his Republican party doesn't exist anymore. He should just declare his independence or become a Democrat already. He's like Charlie Crist.
posted by humanfont at 6:25 PM on August 13, 2011


I'm hearing all kinds of reports of Parry voters, some even voted twice, will be interesting to see if Colbert can get them to release the numbers or reveal if they counted Parry for Perry.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:27 PM on August 13, 2011


So Obama becomes Palin. He may win, but we'll all lose.

This is totally divorced from anything remotely approaching reality.


Whoops, sorry, I forgot all about my public option health care and all those stopped wars and ending torture + bringing the war criminals to justice not to mention the resumption of the 4th Amendment!
posted by DU at 6:28 PM on August 13, 2011 [10 favorites]


He's been giving conservatives something to rally against (the economy, and his ethnicity among the crypto-racist scat-brains) while driving Dems and liberals further into chaos.

Newsflash: the GOP is sucking in the polls. 33% approval as a party lowest for any party ever, now trailing in the Congressional generic by 7, tea party 25% approval. And these idiots have to continue with the stupid until May 2012 when some one wraps this up. They are driving independents off with pitchforks and torches.

So I'm refusing to buy into the ever-popular "we're doomed" refrain. Has that won us a damned thing, ever?
posted by Ironmouth at 6:31 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


I can't believe that I'm saying that Romney is the "reasonable" one of the bunch.

Mitt Romney is the reasonable one of the bunch. He's just not a politician.
posted by jsavimbi at 6:31 PM on August 13, 2011


So Obama becomes Palin. He may win, but we'll all lose.

I don't get why people thought Aliens vs Predator sucked, it was lot of fun.

So I'm refusing to buy into the ever-popular "we're doomed" refrain. Has that won us a damned thing, ever?

It's like one side is C3PO, the other is R2.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:33 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


"Joe Scarborough may not like her, but his Republican party doesn't exist anymore."

Bingo.

The Teabaggers are threatening to kamikaze/primary anyone who doesn't toe the party line on taxes and bigotry immigration, and it's working. Lest we forget, the GOP might actually have a majority in the Senate right now if it wasn't for batshit insane uprisings in Delaware and Arizona that cost them sure-things.

Scarborough can "heh, indeed" all he wants, but Pandora's Box has opened, and inside was not the eventual "serious" candidate the establishment GOP longs for, but rather a fuckload of wing-nut crazy.

And Obama should thank his lucky stars that the GOP has become more interested in appeasing aging white people on Social Security and Medicare who "want the government out of medicine and retirement" than it has on governing the country, let alone actually winning elections.

These people will not quietly pinch their noses and vote for an establishment figure like Romney. Hell, they hated McCain and they'll hate Mittens even more.

Bachmann is going to get the nod and America lasts an extra decade or so before China buys us.
posted by bardic at 6:34 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


It's going to be PerryPalin. And that is going to be a problem.

And someone will be eating a palin-coated hat. Man, joe, you're just determined to eat a hat, aren't you? I'm starting to think you just covet the rough, chewy taste of an old hat.

P E R R Y
P A L I N

God, this next year and a half is going to suck.
posted by cashman at 6:35 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm having a hard time imagining Perry, Palin or MBach winning New York and California. This is just when the crazy people come out and act crazy. They make the real candidate, who is also crazy but does have any rabies dribble on his shirt or baby blood on his chin, look normal.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:39 PM on August 13, 2011


That should be does not, of course (or DOES he).
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:40 PM on August 13, 2011


Man, joe, you're just determined to eat a hat, aren't you?

Well, I stand by my claims. There is no possible way Palin gets the nomination, and there is little to no doubt Bachmann gets the nod either. Those were my only hat-eating wagers.
posted by joe lisboa at 6:42 PM on August 13, 2011


Boy has no gravitas, he's just something for Bachmann and Perry to snack on.

I heard this in the voice of Foghorn Leghorn and really enjoyed it.
posted by Trurl at 6:42 PM on August 13, 2011 [20 favorites]


* Bachmann does NOT get the nod, that is.
posted by joe lisboa at 6:43 PM on August 13, 2011


I heard this in the voice of Foghorn Leghorn and really enjoyed it.

Me, too. :)


so it's not just the drugs ....
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:44 PM on August 13, 2011


Lets make it a dozen corn dogs (in one sitting) instead of a hat. (posted on youtube of course)
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 6:46 PM on August 13, 2011


It's going to be PerryPalin.

I'm not buying that, but damn if the idea doesn't scare the crap out of me. That combo could work and not in a good way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:46 PM on August 13, 2011


I can't believe that I'm saying that Romney is the "reasonable" one of the bunch.

i'm betting bachmann's real role is to get more people to think this.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 6:48 PM on August 13, 2011 [5 favorites]


Perry is going to win the nomination, and probably the presidency unless Obama starts taking unemployment as serious as a heart attack. If it doesn't drop like a rock on the next year I doubt I'll even be bothered to vote for him. He should be beating on the unemployment drum every single day as loud as he can. During the debt ceiling debacle, he should've been on television every day asking the republicans, "How many jobs is this drama queen situation creating? How many?!"
posted by mullingitover at 6:48 PM on August 13, 2011 [9 favorites]


I doubt I'll even be bothered to vote for him

oh yes, that'll show him. let the fucking psychos win. well done indeed.
posted by elizardbits at 6:49 PM on August 13, 2011 [13 favorites]


Obama pushed through transformative legislation on Healthcare, Financial Services, Energy and Transportation. These things are just beginning to phase in. We ar running out of runway, but it isn't over yet.
posted by humanfont at 6:50 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


Perry is going to win the nomination, and probably the presidency unless Obama starts taking unemployment as serious as a heart attack.

It's Romney. I'm telling you. The left is gonna build these ridiculous fuckers up to Freddy Krueger starring in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre proportions and then Romney is gonna seem not so bad in comparison. And then he'll get the nomination. And then we'll be fucked.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:50 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


Well, now, a Perry/Bachman win might be better than a zombie apocalypse.
posted by angrycat at 6:51 PM on August 13, 2011


It's Romney. I'm telling you.

In normal times, I would bet on Romney's financial and psychological advantages to prevail over Perry.

These are not normal times.
posted by Trurl at 6:52 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Well, now, a Perry/Bachman win might be better than a zombie apocalypse.

Throw Palin in as Secretary of State and I think Roger Corman would make that into one hell of a zombie movie.
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 6:53 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Well, now, a Perry/Bachman win might be better than a zombie apocalypse.

no it demonstrably would not. it is totally okay to run through the streets with a machete hacking at random during the zombie apocalypse. it is practically REQUIRED.
posted by elizardbits at 6:54 PM on August 13, 2011 [5 favorites]


Well, now, a Perry/Bachman win might be better than a zombie apocalypse.

What kind of zombies are we talking about here? Like the classic slow, relentless ones, or those new infected and quick kind? You know what, whatever--I'll take my chances with the fucking zombies.
posted by milarepa at 6:54 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


You fools are all overlooking the "X Factor" that is going to change everything.
posted by Trurl at 6:58 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


Perry has been doing a good job of moving (even farther) right this last year or so, I think he can win the GOP nomination. But Perry can't make a credible move towards the center that he needs to do to win a general election.
posted by nightwood at 7:00 PM on August 13, 2011


Forget Palin. She is probably calling around tonight seeing who can offer her the most TV time for her sincere and prolonged endorsement.
posted by mattbucher at 7:03 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


OK, I'm going to make a crazy prediction here, reflecting my understanding of how the GOP seems to operate.

It's Mitt Romney's turn.

In the modern conservative era, each successive GOP nominee has had their name up for serious consideration for the ticket at least once before. (note that the name "George Bush" appears multiple times as both Sr and Jr.)

1968 Nixon gets second crack at nomination, after serving as VP under Eisenhower and narrowly losing to JFK.
1976 Reagan loses to Ford. Ford names Bob Dole as VP candidate.
1980 Reagan wins nomination. Bush Sr. loses to Reagan, but named VP.
1988 Bush Sr wins nomination, election.
1996 Bob Dole nominated. (What's the alternative? Quayle? Not a chance.) Loses.
2000 Bush Jr. nominated. John McCain loses to Bush.
2008 McCain wins nomination, beating Romney.

Nixon. Reagan. Bush. Dole. Bush. McCain...

Romney.

Don't worry, the GOP apparatus won't let Bachmann win the nomination. I'm predicting it comes down to Romney and Rick Perry, with Romney taking the nod. If she scares you (and she is scary), your big concern is not that she'll get the Presidential nomination. Your concern is that she'll get a spot in line like the past six GOP nominees by being a natural choice for the VP nod, especially if she develops a strong national base throughout the primaries. She excites the Tea Partiers, throws red meat to the crazy base, raises money, and diversifies the ticket by being a "she."

I'm more than half convinced that the GOP nomination process is more predictive of who's going to their on-deck circle, than who they're sending to bat now.
posted by edverb at 7:05 PM on August 13, 2011 [20 favorites]


In normal times, I would bet on Romney's financial and psychological advantages to prevail over Perry.

Normal times haven't prevailed since...when? Did they end with Clinton, a dark horse candidate his own party didn't want? Did they end with Bush, an aggro simpleton with a famous name who became president under circumstances so shady that it still blows people's minds? Did they end with Obama, a man...hell, where to even start? We haven't had normal in a long time, if ever. I still say Romney gets the nomination. Perry could get a VP spot. That's something to really be afraid of, because then you have the photogenic moderate matched up with the NASCAR bait, although that didn't pan out so good last time.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:05 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


The latest incarnation of Moloch seems to win the Iowa straw poll every year. I'll wait for the official nomination before I renew my passport early.

My pick is still Romney/Bachmann, and I still think they will lose for the same reason Palin lost the 2008 election. When it comes down to it, moderates cannot envision someone like Bachmann having their finger on the big red button, and there aren't enough staunch Tea Party voters to move past the moderates.
posted by notion at 7:05 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


*every election.
posted by notion at 7:07 PM on August 13, 2011


In life, we have to work with probabilities. The overwhelming probability is that the American people are not going to elect a visibly insane person to be our first female president. If Bachmann wins the nomination it will be a great thing for Obama, America and mankind at large. Perry and Romney are both scarily electable.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:09 PM on August 13, 2011


Ahahaha I've been waiting for reality to fold in on itself like this...
posted by LordSludge at 7:10 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


She's been getting awfully gentle coverage in Iowa, and I suspect at some point the media will start honing in on what a wack-job she is.

I said this to myself about Bush for two solid years leading up to the 2000 election. I wouldn't count on it at all.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:12 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


"Don't worry, the GOP apparatus won't let Bachmann win the nomination."

Um, a Bachmann nod might be the only thing that can save Obama. Hence libruls like me hoping like hell it actually happens.
posted by bardic at 7:13 PM on August 13, 2011


There is no possible way Palin gets the nomination, and there is little to no doubt Bachmann gets the nod either. Those were my only hat-eating wagers.

Nuh uh, joe. You said if Palin was on the ticket, and you were responding to my comment 8 comments above yours where I said "Palin will be on somebody's ticket. And I think the nominee is someone as yet unknown."

And I think that unknown nominee is looking like Rick Perry.

Prepare to eat your hat. To be fair, just bake a cake in the shape of a ball cap with the words "Perry/Palin" on it, and take a bite of it.

You could still end up being right, also.
posted by cashman at 7:14 PM on August 13, 2011


I'm expecting Perry to win the nomination. Bachmann will be the spoiler, and her supporters will strongly prefer Perry to Romney. I'm also expecting next summer to send democrats into existential despair as the economy tanks, Obama centers his campaign around deficit reduction via entitlement cuts, and the Supreme Court guts the ACA.
posted by gsteff at 7:21 PM on August 13, 2011


I think that it has to get so bad in this country that people start considering communism, or some modern equvalent again in order to restore balance to the system and allow for the creation of some sort of network that would allow the people to address themselves and their needs.

The Industrial Workers of The World celebrated their 100th anniversary a few years ago, and are due for a comeback.
posted by elektrotechnicus at 7:21 PM on August 13, 2011 [5 favorites]


Hysterical Michele Bachmann flees teenage gay activist

i can't even
posted by elizardbits at 7:29 PM on August 13, 2011 [6 favorites]


I said this to myself about Bush for two solid years leading up to the 2000 election. I wouldn't count on it at all.

The thing is, W really didn't have a strong wack-job vibe before his administration. He was a Republican governor in a very red state, and still generally found ways to work with (or at least not totally alienate) the Democrats in Austin. He was never known to be bright (everyone knew him for an intellectual lightweight), and by all indications, people could see he was a dry drunk, but wack-job... not so much.

What happened to Bush was, basically, Dick Cheney and his "New American Century" pseudo-intellectuals swept in and through various processes of (likely) toadying and bullying, got W to do what they wanted (and almost certainly convinced him that he wanted those things as well) -- get us into Iraq, and turn every issue into a litmus test where insufficent loyalty to the party was punished, even for ostensibly non-political positions. No, oddly enough, as much of an incompetent President I feel he turned out to be, W wasn't so much a wack-job as a guy who could be pushed around (if the manipulation were sufficiently subtle).
posted by chimaera at 7:31 PM on August 13, 2011 [12 favorites]


The absolutely crazy right is around 25-30% of the population at least. This number represents the people who approved of Bush at the end of his term and liked Palin after she lost and resigned.

That's also about the percentage of people that voted for Alan Keyes over Obama in the Illinois senate race -- see the crazification factor.
posted by empath at 7:36 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


First of all, Bachmann will not win either the primary or the general. Second of all, like Palin, if the Powers that Be™ think that having Bachmann as the VP pick is in any way strategically viable, they are stoopid with a capital OO, and maybe an extra O. The GOP's only chance is with Romney and they know it. Rick Perry? Who? Isn't gonna happen. Romney is not the ideal GOP candidate but neither was McCain.

I'm gonna hold off on the GOP VP pick, but I can say for certain: the GOP PtB™ have learned their lesson from the Palin pick. It will not happen again.
posted by effwerd at 7:37 PM on August 13, 2011


MetaFilter: Go at it again like wet chickens. Badtouch your pets.
posted by loquacious at 7:38 PM on August 13, 2011 [5 favorites]


Thanks empath, that was what I was thinking of but I couldn't find the terms to google for, forgot the Keyes connection.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:39 PM on August 13, 2011


i actually agree with Markos btw. I don't see how anybody but Bachman wins.

Either way the GOP primary season is going to be a clusterfuck of epic proportions and I can't wait until the knives come out. Obama is going to end up winning every state except for the confederacy.
posted by empath at 7:40 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


I just wanted to say that I finally feel like the Democrats are doing something right.

Not with the debt-ceiling vote. That was complete capitulation. And not with the super-congress nominations. Tepid at best.

I'm talking about the labeling and publishing of the Bachman is crazy meme. Everyone is totally on message here. Brings a tear to my eye it does.

I know what you're saying. But formless, she IS crazy, look at those eyes!

To that I say, "Exactly! Good work! Keep that up!" Because it's true, she is fucking crazy, but when has the truth ever stopped the Democrats from screwing it up?

So, keep photoshopping those memes. More crazy eyes!
posted by formless at 7:41 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


The GOP's only chance is with Romney and they know it.

Do you genuinely think that GOP primary voters think that? If they think it, they aren't telling pollsters that.
posted by empath at 7:41 PM on August 13, 2011


The GOP's only chance is with Romney and they know it.

Do you genuinely think that GOP primary voters think that? If they think it, they aren't telling pollsters that.


I don't know what they think of the chances to win and Romney obviously isn't the only choice, but as of Aug 5-7 Romney, Perry, Giuliani, Palin, and Paul are all polling ahead of Bachmann nationally. I can't predict what the momentum from Ames will do but even among the Republicans it doesn't look like Tea Party bona fides are the deciding factor here.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:49 PM on August 13, 2011


(link)
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:49 PM on August 13, 2011


That's a weird field for the poll. When people are choosing from actual declared candidates, the polling is a lot different -- you can basically add 90% of Palin's total to Bachmann's, for example.
posted by empath at 7:51 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


I cannot even begin to examine the horrors that my life has become when I look at that list and think "huh, Guiliani. seems reasonable."

1995 me is going to time travel to punch me in the face any minute now.
posted by elizardbits at 7:52 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


So: 1) the Presidency is a weak, impotent office before almighty Congress; 2) the urgency of re-electing Obama to that office outweighs all!

Greenwald just lost a lot of respect from me with this. It's actually easy to see how both statements are true and yet not at odds if you actually engage your brain and understand the political process. The President is not able to accomplish any agenda which requires legislation without Congress. But the reverse is pretty much true as well -- it's very difficult for Congress to accomplish legislative agendas without the cooperation of the President. If nothing else, you want the Presidency to get in the way of agendas which are completely counter to your own. But there are indeed well-known something elses: appointments to a number of federal offices including the Supreme Court and the general direction of the executive.

I know Greenwald knows this. The only plausible explanations is that he's gotten in the habit of firing off without actually thinking things through, or that he doesn't care that what he said is false as long as he gets to manipulate an audience that won't think things through.

In any case, the statement reflects extremely poorly on him, and I've seen enough like it from him over the years that while I'm willing to use what he has to say for limited informational purposes, I'm pretty much certain at this point that he is in no way shape or form a trusthworthy political voice.
posted by weston at 7:54 PM on August 13, 2011 [6 favorites]


Do you genuinely think that GOP primary voters think that? If they think it, they aren't telling pollsters that.

If 2008 was a galvanizing moment for Dems, 2012 will be the same for Repubs. Bachmann supporters are not the majority in the primary in this scenario. Independents will come out in force and give the nod to Mitt. To put it in gross terms: Romney has brand recognition, is not perceived to be crazy, and will likely be more centrist in implementation.
posted by effwerd at 7:54 PM on August 13, 2011


That's a weird field for the poll. When people are choosing from actual declared candidates, the polling is a lot different -- you can basically add 90% of Palin's total to Bachmann's, for example.

You know, you very well may be right on that, but Palin may be crazy enough to be running or the Tea Party voters may end up having a boner for Perry.

As for Perry, no one should think of him as inevitable either. He was Lt. Governor for Bush and took over when Bush moved on, he was elected several times as in incumbent Republican in Texas. Not that hard. He hasn't been battle tested in a real, tough campaign.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:55 PM on August 13, 2011


I've been putting a bit of thought into this, and I think the most likely outcome is Rick Perry -- unless he does something to sabotage his (relatively tenuous) edge for the nomination:

Bachmann -- Red meat for the red meat crowd and Tea Partiers, and also in with the Evangelicals (there is not as much overlap as one would expect between Tea Partiers and Evangelicals, to wit: Teabaggers are much more likely to be Ayn Rand fetishists like Jared Loughner). She's got a good chance for the nomination but her rhetoric appeals to too-narrow a portion of the party and the bigwigs will do what they can to avoid a Bachmann nomination, and the corporatist wing of the party didn't like her rhetoric supporting a default on the debt.

Romney -- He has a good chance at the nomination simply because he has the "finance/big money" wing of the party in his pocket. They love the guy. Coming from Bain and having been a governor in a (relatively) blue NE state: they love him. But he has 2 big strikes against him:

1. The Teabaggers really did want the big banks to go under. They didn't want bailouts OR stimulus. The ideologues of the Tea Party (not the financial benefactors a la Koch brothers, but the rank and file know-nothing puritans) hate Wall Street as much as they hate the Federal government. Romney being from the corporatist wing will work against him with the flyover-state Tea Partiers.

2. He's a mormon. Plenty of Evangelicals will hold their nose and vote for him anyway, but they won't be enthusiastic, just as they weren't enthusiastic about McCain. He's going to enjoy tepid support from the Evangelical wing of the party.

Perry -- he's got the anti-Federal-Government credentials simply for broaching the subject of secession for Texas. This will score him the Tea Partiers. He's also (pardon my french, there really isn't a better phrase IMO) been sucking Evangelical dick so hard for the last couple months that he's really making big strides in the religious wing of the party. Whether the corporatist wing of the party is likely to warm up to him remains to be seen, but he's much more palatable to the corporatist wing simply because he didn't take as harsh an angle on the debt crisis as Bachmann. He was dead-set against tax hikes (what Republican wasn't?), but to my knowledge (happy to retract this if someone can give me evidence otherwise) he didn't talk up a default the way Bachmann did.

The 3 main factions of the Republican party (the Evangelicals, the Tea Partiers, and the Corporatists) aren't in any one person's pocket -- mainly because these three factions share surprisingly little common ground aside from the Norquist "shrink the federal government until it can be drowned in a bathtub" goal.
posted by chimaera at 7:55 PM on August 13, 2011 [5 favorites]


You can roll up all the Perry, Bachmann and Palin votes together, btw. One of them is going to be the anti-Romney candidate, and none of those votes are available for Romney or Guiliani.
posted by empath at 7:55 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Yeah, what I want is a faction of the democratic party that is just as crazy as the tea party, but left. Not communist or socialist, but something like the Chai Party or the Woodstock Party.

They'll advocate for things like free healthcare, stripping corporations of personhood, raising taxes, student loan forgiveness, debt amnesty for developing countries, $5 taxes on gas, etc., basically, just every "crazy-ass" thing they can get in there.

It's that whole Overton Window thing. The Republicans need to be reminded that there is a whole contingent of crazy fucking democrats too and our shit sounds a whole hell of a lot better to the, so far, apathetic masses. The Democrats need such a reminder too, especially Obama.
posted by BeReasonable at 7:58 PM on August 13, 2011 [48 favorites]


They'll advocate for things like free healthcare, stripping corporations of personhood, raising taxes, student loan forgiveness, debt amnesty for developing countries, $5 taxes on gas, etc., basically, just every "crazy-ass" thing they can get in there.

They exist, they just left the party and decided to vote for Nader twice.
posted by empath at 7:58 PM on August 13, 2011 [5 favorites]


This quote is why Romey is dead in the primary. He's too much in the pocket of corporations even for republicans.
posted by mullingitover at 8:00 PM on August 13, 2011


The cornographic photograph that may scuttle the Bachmann campaign: http://bit.ly/nw1Jlh
posted by wensink at 8:00 PM on August 13, 2011


He was never known to be bright (everyone knew him for an intellectual lightweight), and by all indications, people could see he was a dry drunk, but wack-job... not so much.

You're right -- Bush wasn't the wack-job that Bachmann is, but my point was if we wait for a "Dean Scream" moment, or some similar such media takedown of Bachmann, it's going to be a long, cold, sad wait. Remember wondering when, then if, someone at a major media outlet was ever going to run with the story of Bush basically being AWOL from the Natl. Guard for almost 2 years? I thought "surely this..." because there it was, and it just got shelved for reasons still not understood by me. I'm just saying don't count on anyone at the NY or LA Times of the Washington Post, or ABC or CBS News to dig too deep into Bachmann's crazy -- it's not too likely to happen.

Democrats have got to count on something else to take her out of the running, besides responsible mass-market journalism.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:02 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


Yeah, what I want is a faction of the democratic party that is just as crazy as the tea party, but left.

Bill Maher said it best.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:04 PM on August 13, 2011 [12 favorites]


He hasn't been battle tested in a real, tough campaign.

But what would happen that would stop voters from voting for him? If it were based on sense, he wouldn't have a shot in the first place. I don't think 2012 is going to be about sense, reason or presenting ones self as competent. Your neighbors want to destroy the government because all the undesirables are getting benefits. They aren't thinking straight.
posted by cashman at 8:05 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


my point was if we wait for a "Dean Scream" moment, or some similar such media takedown of Bachmann, it's going to be a long, cold, sad wait.

Oh, I disagree. She is the Old Faithful of saying crazy stuff too crazy to ignore. Her time will come.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:05 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


furiousxgeorge, I do hope I'm wrong -- but we've been down that road before. I guess if someone decides it'll sell newspapers, or eyeballs to advertisers, then great. But sitting back and thinking "oh, surely she'll get destroyed in the media" is not an acceptable strategy, here. Let's bookmark this conversation, and celebrate in six months or so when she rips a kitten's head off on Sixty Minutes.

your noble sacrifice will not be forgotten, unknown kitten
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:14 PM on August 13, 2011 [9 favorites]


It occurs to me that there is likely a right-leaning version of metafilter somewhere and right now someone is saying, "We HAVE to vote for Bachmann. I know she's crazy but look at the alternative! Do you really want four more years of Obama!"

This "vote against the other guy" stuff is really getting on my nerves. I'll keep voting democrat for the major offices for now but I'll really like to try and make some alternative to the winner take all system happen at the lower levels of government and hope it moves up.
posted by VTX at 8:17 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


furiousxgeorge: " As for Perry, no one should think of him as inevitable either. He was Lt. Governor for Bush and took over when Bush moved on, he was elected several times as in incumbent Republican in Texas. Not that hard. He hasn't been battle tested in a real, tough campaign."

That's what I was wondering. How is he in a debate? Can he think on his feet against an intelligent opponent, or at least sling enough shit and red meat/word salad to obscure the issues?



Also, as a thin ray of cheer, here's an example of the silver-lining humor this passel of morons will certainly provide everyone going forward:
A poet once said: life can be a challenge, life can seem impossible, but it's never easy when there's so much on the line. We have a lot on the line. Send Washington a message, and send a business problem-solver to Washington, D.C.
--Herman Cain's closing statement from last night's debate

Life can be a challenge
Life can seem impossible
It's never easy...
When so much...
Is on... the line...
--"The Power of One," ending theme song for Pokemon: The Movie 2000
posted by Rhaomi at 8:17 PM on August 13, 2011 [71 favorites]


Rhaomi: "How is he in a debate? Can he think on his feet against an intelligent opponent, or at least sling enough shit and red meat/word salad to obscure the issues?"

You're asking the wrong questions. These questions assume an intelligent voting population that votes with their brains. The right questions are: How handsome is he? How much does he love Jesus? Will he promise to ban abortion? How much does he hate Obama?
posted by mullingitover at 8:21 PM on August 13, 2011 [13 favorites]


furiousxgeorge, I do hope I'm wrong -- but we've been down that road before.

The thing is, Bush isn't the best comparison. He was much more mainstream in his beliefs. His gaffes were folksy and funny. If you ginned them up you could try and make a Dean scream and it might stick, but you would have to stretch like they did with Dean. Bachmann will straight up say crazy ass shit. She is a great campaigner for the most part, but eventually she will do a way too high profile Swine Flu conspiracy or....

"Take this into consideration. If we look at American history, between 1942 and 1947, the data that was collected by the Census Bureau was handed over to the FBI and other organizations at the request of President Roosevelt, and that's how the Japanese were rounded up and put into the internment camps. I'm not saying that that's what the Administration is planning to do, but I am saying that private personal information that was given to the Census Bureau in the 1940s was used against Americans to round them up, in a violation of their constitutional rights, and put the Japanese in internment camps."

... type quote and she won't be able to shake it.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:21 PM on August 13, 2011 [4 favorites]


I don't see Bachmann as a big contender for president, especially when the potential First Husband is her husband Marcus. Oooooh, just wait until the press starts doing profiles on that guy. With every story about Marcus, Michelle will just deflate slowly like a balloon. Even right-wing conservatives have perfectly functioning gaydar.
posted by zardoz at 8:21 PM on August 13, 2011


It's that whole Overton Window thing

Maybe it's that whole Laffer Curve thing?
Or maybe it's {insert legitimate sounding buzzword du jour here} thing?
posted by Poet_Lariat at 8:24 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


VTX: "It occurs to me that there is likely a right-leaning version of metafilter somewhere and right now someone is saying, "We HAVE to vote for Bachmann. I know she's crazy but look at the alternative! Do you really want four more years of Obama!""

I'd think the more logical parallel would be something like:

"I admit, Romney was for healthcare initially and his religious chops aren't as strong as we'd all like, but he's the only candidate that can credibly beat Obama! Sure, it would feel great to vote for a true believer like Bachmann, but she'd never win a general election, and then we'd have to suffer through four more years of a Democratic president!"

...and they'd be right. Heck, that's the argument I'd be making if I wanted to achieve Republican policy goals. The more radical their candidate is, the more likely they are to lose, and therefore not be able to get what they want (deeper tax cuts, a generational conservative lock on the Supreme Court, dismantling federal government, repealing healthcare reform and burying the issue for another decade or two, etc.).
posted by Rhaomi at 8:28 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


All of this was foretold in the Book of Revelations. Perry is the Antichrist and Bachmann is the Whore of Babylon. They will make a great team.

Read your Bible, people. It tells you what's going on in modern politics.
posted by twoleftfeet at 8:31 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


At this point I'm betting on either a Romney/Bachmann ticket or Perry/Romney. I don't think the southern religious right can hold their noses long enough to vote for a Mormon to lead their ticket but having Bachmann up there for VP might make it a little easier for them. Perry can pull the fundie wingnuts on his own and doesn't need Bachmann. Having him at the top might satisfy the teapartiers and Romney on the ticket might pull in the rest of Republicans who aren't basically insane. However, I keep reading things here and there on the interwebs about this huge John Edwards-level skeleton Perry has in his closet. If the story ever fully comes out (probably courtesy of the Romney supporters) Perry is burnt Texas toast.

In spite of how well Hillary did in the '08 campaign (largely with Bill's influence) I don't think the country is yet ready to nominate a woman of either party for president. At best, Bachmann is running for a seat at the grownups' table and possibly the VP slot. Palin's a joke that in the retelling just keeps getting less and less funny and neither Perry nor Romney need whatever pull she thinks she still has with the teapartiers.

I'm also expecting next summer to send democrats into existential despair as the economy tanks, Obama centers his campaign around deficit reduction via entitlement cuts, and the Supreme Court guts the ACA.

Yeah, it's pretty much guaranteed that the SC is going to time its decision for maximum damage to Obama's campaign. Elections have consequences, indeed.

And oh just wait until Kristin Wiig on SNL takes on Bachmann the same way Tina Fey took on Palin. The skits are already writing themselves.

--Herman Cain's closing statement from last night's debate

Bless his heart.

The cornographic photograph that may scuttle the Bachmann campaign

Well, actually, it might encourage more men to vote for her, including some Dems and independents.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:34 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


Stop Tea Punching, Rhaomi.

It's going to be a hard sell for Romney to convince the tea party folks to give up the hard right plan that worked so well in 2010. I assume it will be the focus of his campaign, even if he can't say it that bluntly. If you take a realist look at it, they aren't beating Obama with Romney even if he is the most electable, unless some sort of scandal breaks out for No Drama Obama. They might as well stick with their ideals.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:36 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


(Or, of course, if the economic rage keeps building...it's anyone's game)
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:38 PM on August 13, 2011


Greenwald just lost a lot of respect from me with this. It's actually easy to see how both statements are true and yet not at odds if you actually engage your brain and understand the political process.

Considering Greenwald's writing about Obama and the Democratic Party, I imagine he is being critical of Obama apologists who say he is incapable of anything but compromise (read, capitulation) with the GOP because of the power dynamics in the legislature. He would prefer, I imagine from his other writings, that Obama show an ounce of leadership.
posted by munchingzombie at 8:38 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


fuse theorem: "Yeah, it's pretty much guaranteed that the SC is going to time its decision for maximum damage to Obama's campaign. Elections have consequences, indeed."

Is Kennedy considered to be that much in the pocket of Republicans on this? Not only him, but I've read analysis from several sources suggesting even Roberts might be a gettable vote based on his past decisions on Commerce Clause matters (though I doubt he'd stray from the party line on an issue this pivotal).
posted by Rhaomi at 8:39 PM on August 13, 2011


I still think that the nomination will go to Romney just because of the "next white guy" pattern. Republicans love to flirt with alternative candidates but they always end up nominating the next guy in line. Don't forget, four years ago McCain looked like a loser and the nomination was up for grabs. Giuliani or Fred Thompson or Huckabee would surely win over the sad boring old-school McCain who was out of money with his campaign in tatters.

But somehow when it actually came to voting, Republicans fell in line and voted for McCain. I really think that this is going to play out the same way next year with Romney who will end up winning the nomination pretty easily.
posted by octothorpe at 8:40 PM on August 13, 2011


You're asking the wrong questions. These questions assume an intelligent voting population that votes with their brains. The right questions are: How handsome is he? How much does he love Jesus? Will he promise to ban abortion? How much does he hate Obama?

Here it is. We got a pretty good glimpse of the crazy toward the end of the 2008 election. I thought after Obama's election these people would give up the ghost, but no. There are going to be confrontations. If we're doing it right the notable ones won't be national, between candidates. It will be between you and your neighbors. Make a personal note of the people who would see you and your family suffer. Call them on what they are dancing around, and make them admit it, and then have to defend it. It seems it is not an election to them, it's a war. If you do not want to battle your neighbors with actual weapons, force them to reveal their ideas, and battle those.
posted by cashman at 8:40 PM on August 13, 2011 [6 favorites]


At this point we just have to hope the american people don't elect Pamela Voorhees to the highest office in the land.
posted by The Whelk at 8:48 PM on August 13, 2011 [5 favorites]


Pamela Swynford De Beaufort, however, would be ideal.
posted by elizardbits at 8:53 PM on August 13, 2011


Mitt Romney is the reasonable one of the bunch. He's just not a politician.

No, he's a successful example of the inverse Turing test: can a human being convincingly mimic an artificial intelligence.

An Obama v. Romney election would be about seeing which candidate the voters like the least worst. And then that person get's to be president of a country that's had 9+% unemployment for 4 years. ++ungood.

Perry looks like the devil to me but then Obama's "pivot" to "jobs" seems to be fast-tracking a bunch of "free trade" deals.

I just need to get a "Fuck Me" T-shirt and wear it to my own special protest.
posted by ennui.bz at 8:55 PM on August 13, 2011


The Telegraph is running that photo, wensink.
posted by Flashman at 8:59 PM on August 13, 2011


The sad, horrible depressing thing is that I wish we had an awesome, down-to-earth republican party. I'm sick of Washington's anemic vs. insane dynamic. I want smart republicans and smart democrats and I want to see them fight in the pit, like they did in the sixties.
posted by Tennyson D'San at 9:02 PM on August 13, 2011 [20 favorites]


Pamela Swynford De Beaufort, however, would be ideal.

I think the rumors on TMZ of her having become a zombie might derail her campaign.
posted by homunculus at 9:05 PM on August 13, 2011


The Telegraph started it, and it really was kind of a messed up thing to do.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:05 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Even right-wing conservatives have perfectly functioning gaydar.
I think that's very, very debatable.
She is a great campaigner for the most part, but eventually she will do a way too high profile Swine Flu conspiracy or....

"Take this into consideration. If we look at American history, between 1942 and 1947, the data that was collected by the Census Bureau was handed over to the FBI and other organizations at the request of President Roosevelt, and that's how the Japanese were rounded up and put into the internment camps. I'm not saying that that's what the Administration is planning to do, but I am saying that private personal information that was given to the Census Bureau in the 1940s was used against Americans to round them up, in a violation of their constitutional rights, and put the Japanese in internment camps."

... type quote and she won't be able to shake it.
You know, I heard a whole ton of census-related dingbattery from people who I didn't consider extremists. I had a whole weird discussion with someone at my knitting group who assured me that the census was unconstitutional. When I said that the census was mandated by the constitution, she told me that they weren't talking about the kind of census we have now, which records things like race. When I said that the 1790 census recorded people's race, she told me I was wrong, which I'm not. I'm not sure that being paranoid about the census would seem so out there to most Americans.
posted by craichead at 9:05 PM on August 13, 2011 [8 favorites]


The glee with which online progressives transform into exactly the thing they claim to hate -- tittering over that hot dog photo, or calling Marcus Bachmann gay -- is the most depressing thing about the Bachmann campaign.

Well, second most.
posted by gerryblog at 9:06 PM on August 13, 2011 [16 favorites]


Part of the reason we don't, Tennyson D'San, (at least imo) is that the GOP is so insistent on party line control nowadays. It use to (and should) be that both parties encompassed a wide middle ground. And every important vote would see people from both sides of the aisle crossing as their individual minds where made up. The Whips had their job cut out for them getting people to toe the line, and where not always successful. The Democrats are still playing by these rules because their tent is so big, the Republicans have great internal control, which many Democrats envy, but it is really a sickness, and their monomaniacalness, fueled by our current media aggressiveness, is a poison that is hard to control. It will eventually claim a sacrifice. Some high level Democrat will be killed.. literally... We have seen similar things in the past, there where newspapers (under Hearse) that quite literally called for the assassination of McKinley months prior to Leon Czolgosz doing the deed.
posted by edgeways at 9:13 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]



The glee with which online progressives transform into exactly the thing they claim to hate -- tittering over that hot dog photo, or calling Marcus Bachmann gay -- is the most depressing thing about the Bachmann campaign.

I'm personally pretty depressed that people continue to use "crazy" to mean "someone I disagree with vehemently".
posted by edgeways at 9:14 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Sarah Palin's voice affects me like chalk on a blackboard.
posted by mike3k at 9:14 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


I think that Bachman's paranoia and her monomania might be clinical, depending on how you read the dsm
posted by PinkMoose at 9:15 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


I'm personally pretty depressed that people continue to use "crazy" to mean "someone I disagree with vehemently".

Eh, I think they use it with Bachmann in reference to weird conspiracy theories she holds, bizarre behavior, and slightly disturbing eyes.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:15 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


Not to mention...

Bachmann Says Unexplained Blackouts From Which She Wakes Up Covered In Blood Won't Affect Ability To Lead
WOODBURY, MN—Republican presidential hopeful Michele Bachmann fired back Wednesday at critics who have said the Minnesota congresswoman's ability to lead the nation would be greatly hindered by her frequent, hours-long blackouts from which she invariably awakens covered in blood. "This is a complete nonissue—who among us hasn't gotten the occasional blinding headache only to wake up totally nude two days later in an abandoned church, covered from head to toe in someone else's blood and with absolutely no recollection of what happened in the intervening time?" said Bachmann, later adding that she is otherwise healthy and, in fact, is fairly certain she gets a significant amount of aerobic exercise during her prolonged fugue states. "I think I can handle the job of running the country just fine even if now and again I have one of my little spells where I come to in the middle of the South Carolina woods tightly gripping a bloody lead pipe in one hand and a ragged piece of what I think was a scalp in the other."
posted by Rhaomi at 9:22 PM on August 13, 2011 [7 favorites]


I think they use it to refer to the fact that she is scary, a fundamentalist and espouses dangerous ideas. That does not make her crazy, that makes her despicable.

Crazy is a pejorative word used used by people on all sides of the "political debate" to dismiss and belittle. It is lazy. It is the word used to also attack people you are uncomfortable with. And we can justify it all we want but it is also a word used by a whole hell of a lot of people to describe folks with mental illnesses. Hate to break it to y'all, but barring some revelation MB is actual sane. You know... just like you and I.


I think that Bachman's paranoia and her monomania might be clinical, depending on how you read the dsm

Depending on how you read the DSM we are all crazy. And unless you are MB's doctor we should perhaps leave the diagnosis aside.
posted by edgeways at 9:27 PM on August 13, 2011 [5 favorites]


I dunn, there are political disagreements about god or taxes and there are "Obama might be using the census to set up concentration camps..." disagreements. It may not be mental illness but it's certainly on a different plane.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:30 PM on August 13, 2011 [3 favorites]


*dunno, the lizard census people stole my o.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:30 PM on August 13, 2011


Depending on how you read the DSM we are all crazy. And unless you are MB's doctor we should perhaps leave the diagnosis aside.

Well, MB has diagnosed me and everyone like me as being in "personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement". I have no problem diagnosing her as crazy.
posted by hippybear at 9:31 PM on August 13, 2011 [18 favorites]


Depending on how you read the DSM we are all crazy.

Wait, what? No.
posted by cashman at 9:35 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


"Crazy" is not being used to mean "I vehemently disagree with her". She believes crazy things.
posted by Flunkie at 9:37 PM on August 13, 2011 [8 favorites]


Michele Bachmann's Auschwitz Warning: In 2002, the tea party leader and GOP presidential candidate filmed a movie that warned Minnesota’s educational standards could lead to a second Holocaust.
posted by homunculus at 9:53 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


"If it came down to Obama vs Bachmann and there was 100% fully verified and incontrovertible evidence that Obama drank kitten blood and planned to enslave all the white people he would still get my vote."

Mine, too. Sorry, white people.

Not that sorry.
posted by Eideteker at 9:57 PM on August 13, 2011 [12 favorites]


The Telegraph is running that photo, wensink.

Cheeky! Feel a wee bit cheated that the Telegraph editors didn't provide a similarly cheeky headline to boot. "Bachmann Smokes Poll in Iowa" would've worked nicely.
posted by wensink at 10:00 PM on August 13, 2011 [11 favorites]


Driving away on a golf cart with her husband Marcus beside her, Mrs Bachmann stopped to buy a foot-long corn dog – a chicken and beef sausage in deep-fried batter. After applying mustard and allowing Mr Bachmann to take the first bite, she chomped into it with gusto.

Um... No comment.
posted by hippybear at 10:04 PM on August 13, 2011 [12 favorites]


Perry is going to win the nomination, and probably the presidency unless Obama starts taking unemployment as serious as a heart attack. If it doesn't drop like a rock on the next year I doubt I'll even be bothered to vote for him. He should be beating on the unemployment drum every single day as loud as he can. During the debt ceiling debacle, he should've been on television every day asking the republicans, "How many jobs is this drama queen situation creating? How many?!"

Krugman: This is what happens when influential people exploit a crisis instead of doing something about solving it.
posted by homunculus at 10:09 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


Corndogs always make me think of the "ask the vet" column many years back that asked, "Why does my dog eat kitty poop?"

And the vet answered: "For the same reason people eat corndogs."

So I always think of that and smile when I have a corn dog.

Here we go folks, Bachmann will destroy the Republican Party just in time for Obama to surrender to it.

I really have to give up politics for alcoholism. Another round, please.
posted by warbaby at 10:12 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


I really have to give up politics for alcoholism. Another round, please.

...but they work so well together...
posted by furiousxgeorge at 10:20 PM on August 13, 2011


We're so fucking fucked.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:25 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


I hate that stupid photo. Stewart called this after the Newsweek mini-debacle - just focus on her actual crazy. That's a shitty photo, and kind of a cheap shot. Focus on her actual crazy.
posted by cashman at 10:37 PM on August 13, 2011 [12 favorites]


What dirigibleman said. Sheesh.

The more I look at the candidates on the right, the more I think "I know this is what my neighbors want in a candidate."

My neighbors want something that is, on the face of it, going to make every problem they feel is wrong with America right now, worse. They'll vote for that with gusto and enthusiasm.
posted by Archelaus at 10:48 PM on August 13, 2011 [2 favorites]


>It's Romney. I'm telling you... Romney is gonna seem not so bad in comparison.,

For the last three months, I've been fairly sure it's going to be Perry.

Romney's position is in some ways analogous to Hillary's in 2008; he's got chits and IOUs and cash, but the activists don't love him. (Although now that I think about it, Perry's position seems like more Edwards' than Obama's.)

There have been hints that there's a great deal of dirt to dig up on Perry, but unless he flames out spectacularly, he'll probably take the nomination. And Bachmann will probably get a lot closer than some might suspect-- rather than playing strategically and picking Romney, the activists are sufficiently fired up that that they'll go for someone truly Anointed of God. (Also, I suspect Queen Crazy's vulnerability in the primaries won't be her own nuttiness, but the peculiarities swirling around her husband.)

The only chance Romney has is that Perry and Bachmann (and even Palin) might keep dividing the hard-right votes all the way down the line.
posted by darth_tedious at 10:52 PM on August 13, 2011


I'm guessing Perry gets the nomination, but Bachman could give him a run for his money. And either will defeat President Milquetoast.
posted by mrhappy at 10:58 PM on August 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


>just focus on her actual crazy. That's a shitty photo, and kind of a cheap shot. Focus on her actual crazy.

Did you see the outtakes Newsweek published? Bachmann looks crazy with statistically improbable regularity.

Also, "focusing on her actual crazy" rather than cheap shot photos is a bad idea.

Why?

Voting is really, really not a rational process.

Focusing on substance is a great strategy for writing a term paper, and being congratulated by one's professor; it's a painfully inappropriate strategy for winning elections.

More briefly:

Al Gore vs. George W. Bush, 2000.

George W. Bush vs. John Kerry, 2004.

The GOP runs on nothing but cheap shots, and usually wins.
posted by darth_tedious at 11:05 PM on August 13, 2011 [9 favorites]


You know, I usually handicap pretty well in these things.

No idea who is gonna win.

I do know that Bachman winning hurts Perry. He's competing with her in the way Tpaw is Romney's rival for the "non-lobotimized" wing of the party. Perry has to suck up all of her oxygen. If he becomes just another face in that crowd he'll be in trouble fast.

The issue is the general. Someone I know in this game says that this election is going to be the first one in our lifetime where there will be a stark difference between the candidates. There will be very little running to the middle for the GOP. How can they?

It appears from the polling that independents, who will decide this election, are moving towards the Dems. Wall Street and Main Street all favor the balanced approach of taxes and cuts. 65% favored the President's position in this battle. And its set up again for the GOP to act like idiots in 3 months on the back end. (Suspect they'll punt)

You'll see a lot of people going for the dems in this election if these trends continue.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:05 PM on August 13, 2011


The GOP runs on nothing but cheap shots, and usually wins.

You're absolutely right. I hate to say it, but you're right. And as has been demonstrated time and time again in recent years, it's not like these people want a fair fight, or are doing things with rationality, debate and discussion in mind. Run that photo everywhere. Normal rules do not apply with this opponent. The gloves are off. Punch 'em in the dick.
posted by cashman at 11:18 PM on August 13, 2011 [6 favorites]


Well, MB has diagnosed me and everyone like me as being in "personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement". I have no problem diagnosing her as crazy.

Sooo, you are ok using her tactics? Just fine with lumping her in with that weird kid from school no one wanted to hang out with?

Here is the simple breakdown of why I am uncomfortable with calling her crazy. There are a lot of people who are on the receiving end of this term, many of whom I actually know, who are a lot kinder then MB, a lot more timid then MB a lot more fearful that that word will be used to describe them in some mindless push to disenfranchise and punish them. "Those crazies don't need help. Those nutjobs should be locked up. I don't want to see those fucking insane people walking the street." And MB is NOTHING LIKE THEM.

If you are uncomfortable using the term retarded, why are you not uncomfortable about using the term crazy? Hey perhaps MB is retarded? Maybe that is why she says such outlandish things hey?

But, you know.. this is a loosing argument. People don't give a shit about this. MB is frightening and deplorable and does things we can't fathom so she must be crazy. That is how we deal with it.

I tell you what though. I know people who are crazy who would run this fucking country a whole hell of a lot better then the last 30 years of sane presidents.


Depending on how you read the DSM we are all crazy.

Wait, what? No.


Well, people who are gay where DSM "insane" at one point. Hell the DSM comes under regular criticism for the validity and reliability of its diagnoses. Give me an average person and 50 psychiatrists and I near guarantee you at least one of them will give that person a DSM based diagnosis. count on it.
posted by edgeways at 11:45 PM on August 13, 2011 [7 favorites]


65% favored the President's position in this battle.

Which poll are you looking at there?
posted by furiousxgeorge at 11:46 PM on August 13, 2011


I just learned that Colbert's PAC ran ads urging the write-in nomination of "Rick PARRY".

Fucking idiotic.

Yeah, their shows are funny, but Colbert and Stewart's outside-the-studio performance art crap will absorb money and time from the naifs who think that laughing at the GOP will slow it down, drive up the Ha-Ha the Republicans are Dumb and Tacky So Of Course They'll Lose Smug Apathy level, and ultimately prove a useful lever for further deregulation of campaign finance.
posted by darth_tedious at 12:00 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


It appears from the polling that independents, who will decide this election

Psst. You sure about who is going to decide the election?

If you are uncomfortable using the term retarded, why are you not uncomfortable about using the term crazy?

I think maybe we're operating from a different connotation of crazy. Crazy is a pretty general term. For me, Outlandish would fit just as nicely. Her ideas are crazy. Her ideas are outlandish. She spouts them often enough, and in such a way that it leads me to believe she herself is outlandish, or that she herself is crazy.

To me it doesn't mean she has some categorizable deficiency that impairs her daily functioning and that could be assessed using some DSM criteria. To me that means she has chosen to believe a bunch of nonsense and she has chosen to believe it stridently and at all costs, with little care given to logic and reason and debate.

Did we eliminate crazy from the dictionary?

Okay, horrible example, but really, she has just lost her self in some alternate reality fantasyland, not unlike the idea that Republicans have subscribed to for some time now - that you can just make up reality as you go along - and she is in there eating corn dogs and looking off to the side and making the crazy eyes. And sending gay kids to re-education camps. And just making crazy ass statements.

Rock goes on to make a joke about someone asking a poorly raised child what 2x2 is, and the answer given is "Jello". When she isn't dodging the questions, Bachman is pretty close to, giving Jello answers, edgeways.
posted by cashman at 12:03 AM on August 14, 2011


Fucking idiotic.

Yeah, their shows are funny, but Colbert and Stewart's outside-the-studio performance art crap will absorb money and time from the naifs who think that laughing at the GOP will slow it down, drive up the Ha-Ha the Republicans are Dumb and Tacky So Of Course They'll Lose Smug Apathy level, and ultimately prove a useful lever for further deregulation of campaign finance.


I think you kind of missed the point there, it's not trying to make fun of dumb Republicans, it's an attempt to highlight the multiple issues in our current interpretation of campaign finance law. Do not be surprised when he is running ads focused on Obama instead of a Republican.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:05 AM on August 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


Yeah, their shows are funny, but Colbert and Stewart's outside-the-studio performance art crap will absorb money and time from the naifs who think that laughing at the GOP will

I used to think Jon Stewart was on the side of Democrats, and that he was routinely hurting the cause because like you say, continually laughing at this stuff stifles your outrage and desire to actually get up and do something against the republicans. But I don't think he has his eyes on hurting the republicans and helping the democrats. I think he is looking past both of those parties, eyeing something larger. I guess he's ultimately going to stage a more obvious attack on the whole system, or at least the two main parties.
posted by cashman at 12:07 AM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


But Darth, if you need some mischief to rage on, in real actual elections instead of unofficial straw polls that are literally about vote buying:


The waters have been further muddled by efforts made by Miller supporters in other forums to encourage misspellings of the Murkowski name.

Write-in ballots will be sorted into five categories Wednesday, according to the Division of Elections. Murkowski ballots will go in one pile. Ballots that have a variation or misspelling of Murkowski will be separated into one of four subcategories based on challenges from Miller and Murkowski observers who will be sitting at the tables with election workers.

-
Americans for Prosperity is sending absentee ballots to Democrats in at least two Wisconsin state Senate recall districts with instructions to return the paperwork after the election date.

The fliers, obtained by POLITICO, ask solidly Democratic voters to return ballots for the Aug. 9 election to the city clerk "before Aug. 11."


Colbert is not making a joke here, it's straight up satire.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:13 AM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


>>The fliers, obtained by POLITICO, ask solidly Democratic voters to return ballots for the Aug. 9 election to the city clerk "before Aug. 11."

>Colbert is not making a joke here, it's straight up satire.


That's true. I just think it's counter-productive; rather than correcting this practice, I suspect Colbert's hijinx will be used to legitimate and justify it. (Why, hardcore Democrat activists like Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart have ALREADY done this! It's time God-fearing Americans actually stood up for themselves and started doing this in every race we can find the money to do this in!)

>I think he is looking past both of those parties, eyeing something larger. I guess he's ultimately going to stage a more obvious attack on the whole system, or at least the two main parties.

I agree that Jon Stewart is looking past both these parties. I'm pretty sure the Something Larger is the same thing he wound up with in his rally: Sucky politics really suck. Don't look at me for an answer-- I'm just a comedian! Be nice! Be nicer! Love me-- no one is humbler than I am!
posted by darth_tedious at 12:34 AM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


That's true. I just think it's counter-productive; rather than correcting this practice, I suspect Colbert's hijinx will be used to legitimate and justify it. (Why, hardcore Democrat activists like Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart have ALREADY done this! It's time God-fearing Americans actually stood up for themselves and started doing this in every race we can find the money to do this in!)

Even Fox News is self aware enough to know Colbert/Stewart are satirists even if they do accuse them of liberal bias. Drawing attention to these kinds of shenanigans is the goal, and it is harmless to do so with a straw poll. It will get more attention to the issue than any super serious Maddow/Olbermann rant.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:38 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


I just wanted to be the first person to publicly note that Rick Perry looks just like Tom Zarek. Let the meme commence.
posted by bunnytricks at 12:42 AM on August 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


>Even Fox News is self aware enough

Yes, Fox News is certainly self-aware; it is, by definition, because it's a messaging operation. Obviously, everyone at Fox knows that the Comedy Central people are satirists. As a messaging operation, the Fox raison d'etre is to spin any and every input in a way that reinforces the message. And this is a supremely easy thing to spin for the Fox News audience: See, the Left is doing this too!

"But in reality, Jon and Stephen aren't the Left! They're crime-fighting hipster-duo comics!"

Reality is not the right frame of reference, when you're going up against a propaganda machine.

"But people outside the Fox News reality tunnel-- they know the truth!"


In elections, truth is not the point.

>Drawing attention
>get more attention


Surely this..!
posted by darth_tedious at 1:33 AM on August 14, 2011


Sorry if this was discussed earlier: what is the point, for people who despise the idea of a central government, to get elected as a central government? Aren't the people who support them now going to despise them when they get there?

I honestly fail to see the logic.
posted by knz at 3:02 AM on August 14, 2011


After all this, I have only one question: what the fuck is a corn dog?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:22 AM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


...I don't see why a party like the Democrats who are so much better than the Republicans would let that happen.

George, I see you're still operating under the proposition that the Democrats are "so much better than the Republicans." The Democrats make more liberal noises that the Republicans. The Democrats have fewer openly corporate-owned elected officials, and fewer openly insane ones. As a group, though, the Democrats are not much better than the Republicans, because enough of them vote like Republicans, and enough (most) of them are so spineless when they have a chance to defend the supposed Democratic values. The net effect is that corporate America gets what it wants. So long as an effective majority of Congress belongs to Big Business, it's silly to think that the cosmetic differences between the two parties make any real difference.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:10 AM on August 14, 2011 [5 favorites]


what the fuck is a corn dog?

your not cleared for that level.
please stick yo bubblegum and minecraft
posted by clavdivs at 5:19 AM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


romney 52%
obama 48%
posted by clavdivs at 5:24 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Sorry if this was discussed earlier: what is the point, for people who despise the idea of a central government, to get elected as a central government?
To reduce or hopefully destroy its ability to function. Is this really not clear? It has essentially been the Republican Party's main strategy for a long time now.
posted by Flunkie at 5:57 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


And just like that...Pawlenty's out.
posted by edverb at 6:03 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Roll the highlight film.

File footage not found
posted by Room 641-A at 6:06 AM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


Don't discount the fact that conservatives in Iowa are not too bright, and they're all supporting Bachmann just because she's a native Iowan. If there's one thing we generally are proud of here, it's being from Iowa. And corn.

I also know many democratic friends here who registered Republican just so they could go to the straw poll in support of her. About half a dozen personal friends, and I was told that there was a substantial number of people I don't know following suit. I'm not sure how valid their claims are, but I use them to make myself feel better.
posted by erstwhile at 6:11 AM on August 14, 2011


It's an indication of how screwed up our presidential-election process is, that places like Iowa and New Hampshire -places where the vast majority of Americans don't want to live - get to choose which candidates are on the ballots the rest of us see.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:16 AM on August 14, 2011


I just learned that Colbert's PAC ran ads urging the write-in nomination of "Rick PARRY".

Fucking idiotic.


I really think the main point of the ad is subtle and being missed by people. It's not about Rick Perry at all, it's about highlighting the other PACs that are spending money to get you to vote Rick Perry, note how their names are prominently highlighted and tarred with traditionally anti-American imagery.

When Colbert started pushing the SuperPAC idea, his "lawyer" was a former FEC guy, and someone who had worked for McCain. McCain was behind McCain-Feingold, the law overturned by Citizen's United that prevented things like SuperPACs. All of this makes me think that the underlying goal of the SuperPAC is to show how fucked up SuperPACs are.
posted by drezdn at 6:22 AM on August 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


IIRC, history is against Bachmann winning the presidency. When's the last time a president was elected directly out of the House of Representatives?
posted by drezdn at 6:25 AM on August 14, 2011


If Palin is, according to Stephen King, Greg Stillson in a skirt, what does that make Bachmann? She strikes me more as Annie Wilkes than Jack Torrance.

It's important to remember that only about a fifth of the population vote in Republican primaries. Within that self-selected subset, the Tea Party is a powerful and enthusiastic force. The money wing of the party and the Scarboroughs and the McCains and Boehnors are shitting their pants right now because they have lost control; the Tea Party has become powerful enough to drive the Republican narrative even when the direction they are driving it is suicidal.

Even if Romney or Perry manages to get the nomination it's very likely that they will pick someone like Bachmann as VP to try to get these people on board. And whatever their private beliefs they will have to spray some spittle and bark at the moon too in order to get that nomination and keep that wing of their base voting.

But in the general election, those ideas are much less popular, and if there is much publicity at all about goings-on in the primary whoever manages to climb to the top of that pile of bodies will be at a major disadvantage against Obama.
posted by localroger at 6:26 AM on August 14, 2011


Furiousxgeorge's post and comments excepted, there's hardly a mention of Ron Paul in this thread. This is not good. Rant: ENGAGE.

If the story is about the predictive strength of the straw poll, then why the disproportionate hand-wringing in here about Bachmann's "win"? Bachmann beat Paul by less than one percentage point in a contest held in Bachmann's home state. No worries though, because when it comes to understanding statistical significance and parsing the numbers, Mefites are no worse than the press. Here's a (darkly) humorous example from Politico.

So I decide to do my own straw poll to see whether the results on Metafilter and Politico are representative of a broader trend, and this is what I see.
posted by L'oeuvre Child at 6:27 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


ron paul's following is very internet centered, bachmann's is not - i don't think you can be sure that numbers from the internet are going to reflect the population at large
posted by pyramid termite at 6:30 AM on August 14, 2011


I wonder if Pawlenty dropped out because the traditional wing of the Republican party took him aside and said "You're siphoning votes from Romney, and if you keep this up the more extreme elements of the party will win the nomination. Drop out, and if we win, we'll give you a cushy appointment, maybe even Vice President."
posted by drezdn at 6:39 AM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


I just learned that Colbert's PAC ran ads urging the write-in nomination of "Rick PARRY".
Like, the producer of Nilsson Schmilsson? Anyone who can deal with Harry Nilsson after a raft of Brandy Alexanders may have the patience and the diplomacy required to work with some of the outlandish folks in our current government.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:44 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Good point termite. But the straw poll isn't internet centered, and just look at the outcome. The question is whether the straw poll numbers reflect the population at large.
posted by L'oeuvre Child at 6:44 AM on August 14, 2011


Drezdn, Pawlenty dropped because he's out of money and he can't jumpstart fundraising if he can't win or place in Iowa. Plus, what you said.
posted by edverb at 6:51 AM on August 14, 2011


Bachmann's rule: No vote, no Randy Travis
posted by futz at 6:56 AM on August 14, 2011


There have been hints that there's a great deal of dirt to dig up on Perry, but unless he flames out spectacularly, he'll probably take the nomination

Not before he has his own "Reverend Wright moment". Apparently Perry is closely aligned with the leaders of something called the American Family Association, an organization which has some clearly extreme viewpoints:

From the Texas Tribune-–

”Sparking the controversy are the group’s views on Christianity, its staunchly anti-gay platform and the inflammatory statements of one its executives, Bryan Fischer. In an interview with The Texas Tribune on Tuesday, AFA president Tim Wildmon said Jews, Muslims, atheists or any other non-Christian would “go to hell” unless they accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. Wildmon’s father, Don, who famously took on iconic television programs like Three’s Company for promoting what he saw as an immoral lifestyle, is listed as one of the event’s chief organizers….. Over the years, Fischer has blamed gays for the Holocaust and has called on Muslims to convert to Christianity or face the wrath of U.S. military power. He also once blogged that social welfare programs made black women want to “rut like rabbits.”….”


Ricky's gonna have some 'splainin' to do.
posted by fuse theorem at 6:58 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


In a GOP primary, that'll just get him more votes.
I think the biggest obstacle for him now is his newness to the freak show. He may pull a George Allen. Otherwise, I think he wins.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:08 AM on August 14, 2011


In an interview with The Texas Tribune on Tuesday, AFA president Tim Wildmon said Jews, Muslims, atheists or any other non-Christian would “go to hell” unless they accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.

To be fair, this isn't exactly a radical thought among Christians. It's sort of a basic tenet of the faith. Most might not use the harsh "go to hell" language, but the end-result would be the same if pressed on the subject.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:14 AM on August 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


In an interview with The Texas Tribune on Tuesday, AFA president Tim Wildmon said Jews, Muslims, atheists or any other non-Christian would “go to hell” unless they accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.

Isn't that the position of pretty much all Evangelical Protestants? They tend to be nice about it, but we're all going to Hell unless we accept Jesus. As a Jew, I find it pretty mind-boggling that people choose to believe something so utterly hateful, but I have to accept that a significant portion of believing Christians do think that. To me, the question is not whether they think I'm going to hell, but whether that belief affects their policies.

Michelle Bachmann until recently attended a church that had the official doctrine that the Pope is the Antichrist. I have no idea whether Catholics care about that, but I'm going to guess not.
posted by craichead at 7:16 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


He may pull a George Allen.

select, right-click, google, wiki...

Allen now serves on the Reagan Ranch Board of Governors of Young America's Foundation where he is a Reagan Ranch Presidential Scholar.

Reagan... Ranch... Presidential Scholar... Reagan Ranch... Presidential Scholar... Reagan Ranch Presidential Scholar...
posted by Rat Spatula at 7:20 AM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


Rick Perry kicked off his campaign run with a Christians only prayer meeting/festival/stadium extravaganza. That should be giant red flag to anyone who's watching. Worse than that, if you research the people who were involved with the event, you'll see they are the craziest-of- the-crazy-end-of-the-world-liberals-are-infidels-Obama-is-the-antichrist droolers and mouth breathers.

The big question is does Rick Perry really believe this stuff.( I think he does.) One thing's for sure, it was a clear dog-whistle to the right that he's a "christian" but, more importantly, he's not a Mormon.

He's come out swinging, and it's only going to step up the party infighting. Hopefully whoever ends up with the nomination is going to be too bruised and bloodied to win the Presidency.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:41 AM on August 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


In an interview with The Texas Tribune on Tuesday, AFA president Tim Wildmon said Jews, Muslims, atheists or any other non-Christian would “go to hell” unless they accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.

To be fair, this isn't exactly a radical thought among Christians. It's sort of a basic tenet of the faith. Most might not use the harsh "go to hell" language, but the end-result would be the same if pressed on the subject.


As a teenager growing up in a "Church of Christ," one of the last events I attended was standing outside a local grocery store talking to people. I don't remember what the stated goal was (could have been just inviting people to our church or something), but I pretty much said the above to someone who ignored me as they walked out of the store. It was a joke on my part, but I got called aside by an elder and was told I was being inappropriate. I countered with "well is this or is this not what we are supposed to believe?" He replied "Well yes but we can't say it like that."

That was right about the last time I ever set foot in a church.
posted by Big_B at 7:42 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile Sarah Palin continued her tour as a non-candidate-private-citizen (in a giant flag bedecked bus) with a stop at Ronald Reagan's boyhood home, joining in the Reagan centenary celebration.
posted by readery at 7:54 AM on August 14, 2011


Yes, Fox News is certainly self-aware; it is, by definition, because it's a messaging operation. Obviously, everyone at Fox knows that the Comedy Central people are satirists. As a messaging operation, the Fox raison d'etre is to spin any and every input in a way that reinforces the message. And this is a supremely easy thing to spin for the Fox News audience: See, the Left is doing this too!

There are a million other things they could point to on the left that would be better examples of voting shenanigans. You are reaching, let it go.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:11 AM on August 14, 2011


Metafilter: huddling under blankie watching kittens ride roombas

pretty much how I feel about the coming election.
posted by theora55 at 8:45 AM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


If this was funnier, corndog would be verbified into corndogging. It might take some of the pressure off of Santorum.

Too late! Urban Dictionary is already there!!!!
posted by warbaby at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2011


At the California State Fair, the Republican Party of Sacramento had a booth in the vendor section. They had a giant life-sized cut out of Sarah Palin, arms crossed, grinning. I was afraid to touch it.
posted by jabberjaw at 8:51 AM on August 14, 2011


It seems that for so many events like the Presidential race or the Oscars, the actual "race" itself keeps starting earlier and earlier. All these early actions and polls popping up become incredibly decisive, and encourages more snap decisions that have months to harden and crystallize until voting day. I miss late surprises. After a while there there seems to be no point in waiting - the poll becomes the actual vote.
posted by facehugger at 8:52 AM on August 14, 2011


At a local Target, the store manager had a life-sized cutout of Rachael Ray, holding hard anodized cookware, grinning. I was afraid to touch it.
posted by Trurl at 9:08 AM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


And just like that...Pawlenty's out.

---
By comparison, the juggernaut presidential campaigns of Joe Biden, Bill Richardson, Dennis Kucinich and Chris Dodd made it to Iowa last cycle, and beyond. None of these Democratic campaigns were ever treated by the press as anything other than also-rans.

The national press gave Tim Pawlenty their stamp of approval as a serious, viable candidate. But the national press corps is not picking the GOP nominee. It's more and more clear that it's going to be the Tea Party who picks the Republican nominee and Tea Party Republicans were just not buying Tim Pawlenty - a fairly moderate governor of a fairly liberal state - as one of them. This is the modern Republican Party and it's dramatically different from the Republican Party of 2000 or even 2008. It's changed and with it have their candidates for President. The press needs to accept this and start aligning their coverage in a way that tells the story of what is actually happening in this race and not what they'd like to have happen in this race.
posted by Trurl at 9:25 AM on August 14, 2011


Sorry if this was discussed earlier: what is the point, for people who despise the idea of a central government, to get elected as a central government? Aren't the people who support them now going to despise them when they get there?

I honestly fail to see the logic.


Knz, I said the same thing yesterday after watching Rick Perry's speech. If someone could explain to me, I'd be happy! Or something.
posted by Hop123 at 9:26 AM on August 14, 2011


You're making the mistake of assuming there's a coherent ideology behind it all. Notice how the same people ranting about the size and power of government now were a-ok with it just a few years back when we invaded two nations without provocation, began torturing people, started warrantless wiretapping, etc. You'll do better if you think of it as a team sport where the players change but the fans root for the colors.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:41 AM on August 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


We get charter-school types running in local school board elections all the time - same thing. No better way to drown the baby than to take charge of the backbrush, hair conditioner and foot pumice... or something. Blah blah blah, best way to rob a bank...
posted by Rat Spatula at 9:51 AM on August 14, 2011


I find it interesting that it was back in the nineteen-seventies that the swine flu broke out then under another Democrat [sic] President, Jimmy Carter.

The 1976 swine flu outbreak happened under Republican President, Gerard Ford.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:52 AM on August 14, 2011


"I admit, Romney was for healthcare initially and his religious chops aren't as strong as we'd all like, but he's the only candidate that can credibly beat Obama! Sure, it would feel great to vote for a true believer like Bachmann, but she'd never win a general election, and then we'd have to suffer through four more years of a Democratic president!"

...and they'd be right. Heck, that's the argument I'd be making if I wanted to achieve Republican policy goals. The more radical their candidate is, the more likely they are to lose, and therefore not be able to get what they want (deeper tax cuts, a generational conservative lock on the Supreme Court, dismantling federal government, repealing healthcare reform and burying the issue for another decade or two, etc.).
Well, I think it's pretty obvious that Romney, or even Huntsman would be the most likely to win the general election against Obama. Romney isn't as worrysome, he seems like someone who would be willing to cooperate with the democrats, the same way Obama tries to compromize with the republicans. In fact I would be we'd have more liberal policy with Romney and a dem congress then Obama and republican one.

But the reason I want them to vote for Romney is because I'm a liberal. If I were a hard-core pro-lifer I'd be much more interested in voting for someone like Perry. He seems like someone who could win the presidency pretty easily, other then the fact that he had the same as George W Bush before he was president. That might be too negative of a reminder for a lot of people.
Not before he has his own "Reverend Wright moment". Apparently Perry is closely aligned with the leaders of something called the American Family Association, an organization which has some clearly extreme viewpoints:
Saying "something called the American Family Association" is like saying "Something called Moveon.org" or "a site called DailyKos". AFA is a major player in republican politics, and I'm sure every candidate has some 'ties' to them.
posted by delmoi at 9:53 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


>All of this makes me think that the underlying goal of the SuperPAC is to show how fucked up SuperPACs are.

Actually, that's the clear, visible goal.

My point is that the goal itself is problematic, because I suspect pretty much everyone, of every political stripe, already believes that SuperPACs are fucked up; it's just that for some, they are fucked up but extremely useful.
posted by darth_tedious at 10:06 AM on August 14, 2011


Bachman was on Meet The Press today attempting to walk back her crazy and sound more like a moderate. I think her performance was pretty terrible.
posted by humanfont at 10:12 AM on August 14, 2011


Portrait of the Fascist as a Young Man
posted by homunculus at 10:14 AM on August 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


Man, he just needs the mustache, doesn't he?
posted by empath at 10:20 AM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


Bachman was on Meet The Press today attempting to walk back her crazy

Oh I want to see video of that.
posted by cashman at 10:21 AM on August 14, 2011


Oh I want to see video of that.

Ask, and ye shall receive.
posted by hippybear at 10:25 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm only saying this because I'm smug and want to be on record, but I think Herman Cain will be the VP nominee for the Republicans. If Romney is the presidential nominee, they'll want a Protestant; if Bachmann is the nominee, they'll want a man; and if Pawlenty or Perry (or any of these other poor fools) is the nominee, if the Republicans have a single ounce of brains, they need someone who isn't white. Cain has little memorable about himself but next to this crop is able to appear reasonably stable and intelligent (Islamophobia doesn't lose you a single point in any mainstream US political arena), boringly affable, and demographically perfect.
posted by threeants at 10:28 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'll take that bet.
posted by CunningLinguist at 10:33 AM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


what is the point, for people who despise the idea of a central government, to get elected as a central government?
Seriously?
How better to kill something, than to gut it from the inside. Just ask cancer.
And, hey, why not get paid really well while you're doing it? Win-win!
posted by Thorzdad at 10:42 AM on August 14, 2011


" The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"

Yeats, "The Second Coming"
posted by angrycat at 10:49 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Potential 2012 presidential candidate Herman Cain said the media is afraid "a real black man might run against Barack Obama."

The Republicans love a good race baitin', but that might be a bit too far for them to pick him for VP.
posted by stavrogin at 10:51 AM on August 14, 2011


Hysterical Michele Bachmann flees teenage gay activist

elizardbits: i can't even

I sense a pattern that can be easily exploited. Bachmann really (REALLY) fears confrontation from gay people. Remember when
she was worried about being abducted by lesbian former nuns who cornered her in a bathroom? That's a reliable sort of instability. Ask her enough questions about gay rights and she gets nervous. Tell her you're a gay person who wants equal rights, and she freaks out and runs away, claiming she's in danger.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:52 AM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


Potential 2012 presidential candidate Herman Cain said the media is afraid "a real black man might run against Barack Obama."

The Republicans love a good race baitin', but that might be a bit too far for them to pick him for VP.


For real? That's like pillow-talk-level race-baiting, for Republicans.
posted by threeants at 10:55 AM on August 14, 2011


Saying "something called the American Family Association" is like saying "Something called Moveon.org" or "a site called DailyKos". AFA is a major player in republican politics, and I'm sure every candidate has some 'ties' to them.

Well consider me properly chastened. Unfortunately, I don't keep up with right wing borderline hate groups. However, Perry's relationship with them has gone beyond what should simply be described as having "ties". From the article I linked to:

"It is not uncommon for conservative politicians — from Michele Bachmann to Newt Gingrich — to make appearances on Fischer's radio show and fill the stage at AFA events. But Perry may be the first elected official to organize an event in conjunction with the group..."


He's not just making an appearance at their parties. Looks like Perry's climbed right into bed with them (perhaps hoping for cover).

I think Herman Cain will be the VP nominee for the Republicans

Mmmm, the "we've got a Black guy too!" trick didn't work when they picked Michael Steele to head the RNC. I don't think they will want to risk having another Black man that close to the presidency. If something were to happen to Romney and VP Cain moved up to the big chair, the right wingers' heads would collectively explode. They'd be responsible for putting the second Black man in the White House. Nah, not gonna happen unless the GOP intends to write of this election the same way they did the last one (and everybody knows that's definitely not the case).
posted by fuse theorem at 10:56 AM on August 14, 2011


> Perry is going to win the nomination, and probably the presidency unless Obama starts
> taking unemployment as serious as a heart attack. If it doesn't drop like a rock on
> the next year I doubt I'll even be bothered to vote for him. He should be beating on
> the unemployment drum every single day as loud as he can.

In spite of being one of the more conservative folk on mefi I will be voting for the O guy (again.) But he's between a rock and a hard place hammering on jobs jobs jobs if he's facing Perry because, per the Fed of Dallas, 37% of all net new American jobs since the "recovery" began were created in Texas. (Using straight nonfarm payroll employment, 45%.)

There are a number of "yeah, but" points about this (Texas oil jobs are up because oil is up, Texas military jobs are up because war is up, lots of the other new jobs are low-wage, etc.) but you don't want to be going "yeah, but" because that means you're already back on your heels defending, while the other guy is saying "Texas a low-tax state, a low-regulation state, a right-to-work state, we already did tort reform, and we're creating more new jobs that anybody else by a large margin. You want to talk jobs? Go for it."

P.S. 285 comments so far and I have to drag this point in, because all the progressives are busy fapping over Michelle Bachman? Enjoy your fun now, guys, and rotsa ruck in the general.
posted by jfuller at 11:00 AM on August 14, 2011 [11 favorites]


285 comments so far and I have to drag this point in, because all the progressives are busy fapping over Michelle Bachman?

Well, maybe that's because this FPP is about Bachmann winning the Iowa Straw Poll.

If you really feel that strongly about needing to inform people about Perry and the challenge he will present to Obama in the 2012 elections, why don't you compose a separate FPP with quality links about what has been going on with him and in TX under his governorship, and not drop vaguely insulting slams at the conversation nearly 300 comments into a thread which is tangentially related to your concerns?
posted by hippybear at 11:08 AM on August 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


Cain is a joke.

Ask, and ye shall receive.

Here she goes with talking about the tax rate being 34% for corporations, when everything I've seen suggests corporations pay little to no taxes effectively.

I do think she would look more normal to people who don't know about her crazy on other issues. She's a "good" politician in that she just says all kinds of reckless shit and never actually engages and answers a question. She's just spouting. Her whole demeanor and speaking was just to try to demonize everyone but her.
posted by cashman at 11:08 AM on August 14, 2011


Rick Perry kicked off his campaign run with a Christians only prayer meeting/festival/stadium extravaganza. That should be giant red flag to anyone who's watching. Worse than that, if you research the people who were involved with the event, you'll see they are the craziest-of- the-crazy-end-of-the-world-liberals-are-infidels-Obama-is-the-antichrist droolers and mouth breathers.

Yeah, the American Family Association is not just the craziest of the crazy, they're on the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of active hate groups. The Wildmons (current head Tim, founder papa Don) are twisted beyond belief. My English credit for my senior year of high school was based on writing a very extensive paper on a topic of my choice (a requirement of all seniors at my school) -- I chose censorship, and most of my research ended up being on the AFA and Donald Wildmon. I made the horrible, horrible mistake of sending away for some of their pamphlets and ended up on their mailing list for a few years. This was in 1995/96. I kind of wish I'd kept some of it but it was all so fucking hateful and full of bald-faced lies that I kind of thought, in my naive little teenage liberal head, that real people couldn't possibly believe the bullshit in there. I was like, "Um, so they claim that Mighty Mouse cartoons are pro-drug propaganda because sometimes Mighty sniffs flowers before he flies off, AND they make nutty claims about gay people... I can't believe anyone would buy into this, it's so crazy!" I kind of thought they would just fade into obscurity and just... go away. What a dumb child I was.

This paper is a really, really fascinating look at Donald Wildmon's censorship activities, and the earliest days of/precursors to the American Family Association.

These people are truly, truly evil. Rick Perry is scum for being involved with them. Complete, total scum.
posted by palomar at 11:12 AM on August 14, 2011 [5 favorites]


I do think she would look more normal to people who don't know about her crazy on other issues.

I take that back. She looked awful. She dodged question after question in the final minutes of the interview. She did do a terrible job.

Rick Perry it is, for now.
posted by cashman at 11:18 AM on August 14, 2011


> Well, maybe that's because this FPP is about Bachmann winning the Iowa Straw Poll.

Hippybear, the headline of the LA Times article that is the first fpp link is "Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll as Perry looms." Perry was mentioned 83 times in this thread before I did, without any of those mentions including a whiff of a reference to his biggest selling point--especially over Obama. Nope, none of you ultra-aware, reality-based progs mentioned it because none of you knew. Repeat, good luck in the general.
posted by jfuller at 11:22 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Actually they're all scum. Every last candidate with even tangential involvement with the AFA is fucking scum. How many of them have appeared on Bryan Fischer's radio show? If you cheerfully spend time on a radio show like this, you are very clearly out of your ever-loving mind and are not fit to run a Weinerschnitzel in Toluca Lake, let alone an entire country. Also you are fucking dangerous and mean and evil and I fucking hate you.

Sorry, the AFA is one of my hot-button issues. If you're not familiar with them, you really, really need to be. Now.
posted by palomar at 11:23 AM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


She did do a terrible job.

For her intended audience, I think not. Bachmann thinks that 50% of the people voting in the primaries will vote for her brand of crazy and I see no reason to doubt that.
posted by empath at 11:26 AM on August 14, 2011


Has any reporter asked her about the bathroom lesbians incident?
posted by stavrogin at 11:33 AM on August 14, 2011


After all this, I have only one question: what the fuck is a corn dog?

You're obviously not American.
posted by Liquidwolf at 11:37 AM on August 14, 2011


My new salsa band, Bathroom Lesbians, is looking for a rhythm sousaphone player.
posted by Rat Spatula at 11:40 AM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Calling her crazy makes you easily dismissed. She's an extremist, and she's not stupid. I couldn't believe Dubya Bush could win, and while he arguably didn't, he caused 8 years of serious damage. Bachman and Perry are dangerous.
posted by theora55 at 11:58 AM on August 14, 2011


Remember when she was worried about being abducted by lesbian former nuns who cornered her in a bathroom? That's a reliable sort of instability. Ask her enough questions about gay rights and she gets nervous. Tell her you're a gay person who wants equal rights, and she freaks out and runs away, claiming she's in danger.

Ooh, ooh, I do! I agree with your wider point, too--her hatred of gay people is something she really has to be called on, especially when her behavior in any situation even remotely connected to gay rights is very, very bizarre.

Also your links are broken and it would be super awesome if they weren't.

As far as the "crazy" tangent goes... I agree that calling someone "crazy" is dismissive and usually an attempt to Other them and silence them, but Michele Bachmann strikes me as actually mentally ill. Her outlook is toxic, paranoid and out of sync with reality. I think most people calling her "crazy" are using the word in this sense. I feel embarrassed and pitying about a lot of the weirder things she's said and done, but also angry that openly hateful attitudes are still somehow okay in mainstream US politics. The degree to which hate and paranoia have come back out into the open frightens me; I think of Bachmann, Perry, et al as "aspiring fascists," a sentiment that seems to mean less the more it's accepted.
posted by byanyothername at 12:22 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


I had to stop watching that interview once she started talking about repealing Dodd-Frank. And Gingrich went further the other day (no doubt Bachmann feels the same about regulation, but it makes my blood boil too much to hear it said)saying the economic growth was being hindered by Sarbanes Oxley. I'm a CPA, have been one for years, and I have gotten to the point of avoiding doing taxes for any amount of money. People cheat. Taxpayers with regular W2 income do not by and large, but business owners do. I can't remember the last time I dealt with a business owner that did not cheat in some way; expensing vehicles not really used for the business, all relatives cell phones being paid by the business, etc. Some are blatant and extensive and during the Bush years the IRS became very lax. My brother is a tax accoutant and HE hadn't heard of many audits when I asked him last.

But each of these business owners will rail about being taxed out of business. It is what people do. It is the script that never fails. But in reality they are paying tax on 50% to 70% of their income.
grar.

But Bachmann wants to repeal anything that smacks of regulation and I think she counts on the fact that discussion of minutae of financial regualtion makes for bad television, so she is safe to throw that out there without being called on it. That is the lowest form of bullshit and I hate the fact that it has made me as angry as it has, but I am afraid people buy it. I may have to join others under that blanket until after the election. Which pisses me off even more because I am a pretty patriotic lefty who is a political nerd from way back. Damn them.

Cheat sheet re: Dodd-Frank. There is nothing there that would keep a small business owner from suceeding.

posted by readery at 12:22 PM on August 14, 2011 [8 favorites]


The Real Tragedy of Tim Pawlenty
posted by homunculus at 12:28 PM on August 14, 2011


>All of this makes me think that the underlying goal of the SuperPAC is to show how fucked up SuperPACs are.

Actually, that's the clear, visible goal.

My point is that the goal itself is problematic, because I suspect pretty much everyone, of every political stripe, already believes that SuperPACs are fucked up; it's just that for some, they are fucked up but extremely useful.


I guarantee you most people have no idea what a SuperPAC is.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:31 PM on August 14, 2011


I agree that calling someone "crazy" is dismissive and usually an attempt to Other them and silence them, but Michele Bachmann strikes me as actually mentally ill.

Comorbidity of Migraine and Psychiatric Disorders Common

Migraine and Psychiatric Comorbidities

Michelle Bachmann's migraines
posted by charlie don't surf at 12:33 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Regarding the whole "crazy" thing... I try not to use that word pejoratively, but I really don't have a problem with people calling Michele Bachmann crazy because it's pretty clear to me that she is not well. Something is very seriously wrong with her.
posted by palomar at 12:36 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Hippybear, the headline of the LA Times article that is the first fpp link is "Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll as Perry looms." Perry was mentioned 83 times in this thread before I did, without any of those mentions including a whiff of a reference to his biggest selling point--especially over Obama. Nope, none of you ultra-aware, reality-based progs mentioned it because none of you knew. Repeat, good luck in the general.

Some of us knew but didn't feel it was necessary to mention it. You are correct it is a good point and a big part of this discussion though.

Even without Perry, Obama will not run heavily on jobs. Unemployment will be too high for him to be taken seriously, the talking points about how many jobs the stimulus saved won't really sink in when unemployment remains that high.

He would need to do more to run on jobs and well, nothing can pass so:

Kos: There’s a rather surreal lead in Sunday’s NY Times by Binyamin Appelbaum and Helene Cooper, entitled: “White House Debates Fight on Economy.” What makes it quite incredible, IMHO, is the fact that, not too far into the piece, we learn: “Dan Pfeiffer, the White House director of communications, said that there was no internal debate.”

Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Plouffe, and his chief of staff, William M. Daley, want him to maintain a pragmatic strategy of appealing to independent voters by advocating ideas that can pass Congress, even if they may not have much economic impact. These include free trade agreements and improved patent protections for inventors.

posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:38 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Plouffe, and his chief of staff, William M. Daley, want him to maintain a pragmatic strategy of appealing to independent voters by advocating ideas that can pass Congress, even if they may not have much economic impact.

This is an interesting new definition of "pragmatism".
posted by Trurl at 12:48 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Comorbidity of Migraine and Psychiatric Disorders Common

This is not a winning election tactic.
posted by empath at 12:52 PM on August 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


What I chiefly know about Rick Perry is the recent soundbite in which he blamed Obama for causing the credit downgrade because he wanted to raise the debt ceiling. And I thought, Are people insane enough to believe this? It's exactly backwards! And then I realized that yes, people will believe it. Bizarro world, once again.
posted by jokeefe at 12:54 PM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


You know, my migraines were bad enough, before knowing that Bachman has them. It's like, what if Hitler had migraines. You might feel all sorry for him and shit. Also, I guess that I may be crazy. That's good too.
posted by angrycat at 1:17 PM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


Once Perry leaves the cozy confines of Texas his skeletons are going to start spilling, perhaps dancing, out of the closet. Supposedly you can see Narnia it is so deep.
Will be curious to watch.
Granted, if he gets the Fox/Murdoch tap that may be silenced, but pretty sure Romney has that sewed up tight.
My $ is on a Romney/Bachman ticket.
posted by T10B at 1:20 PM on August 14, 2011


I want journalists to keep confronting Bachmann with her stance on gay rights. Bring it up in every single interview and don't let her get away with not answering.

But can we also do the same thing to Rick Perry on the Cameron Todd Willingham case?

Rick Perry, in his authority as Governor of Texas, murdered an innocent man. That needs to be brought up frequently and loudly.
posted by palomar at 1:25 PM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


She did do a terrible job.

For her intended audience, I think not.

I see what you're getting at and agree, but I also think she didn't do a good job of trying to stonewall and redirect the questions toward the end. She just kept trying to repeat the same points when asked if she would allow an openly gay member on the staff. It made it obvious that she would not. In my view it was an obvious enough non-answer that glbtq communities can effectively rally against her full force, for her interview this morning.

>Rick Perry, in his authority as Governor of Texas, murdered an innocent man. That needs to be brought up frequently and loudly.

I think when it becomes clearer who is the frontrunner, there will be a more pointed focus. That's why, I think, anybody with a decent shot is hanging around, to provide cover for the others. My money is on Perry & Palin coming out as the choices.
posted by cashman at 1:30 PM on August 14, 2011


But he's between a rock and a hard place hammering on jobs jobs jobs if he's facing Perry because, per the Fed of Dallas, 37% of all net new American jobs since the "recovery" began were created in Texas.

I guess it could be emphasized that if Perry got his way all the time not of those would have been new American jobs because Texas would have formed its own country.

Late to this conversation, but basically one of the arguments here now is that the guy who proposed seceding from the United States of America is the "less crazy one." That... that says a lot.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 1:32 PM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


Holy crap, I feel nostalgia for McCain. Never thought I'd be looking upon him a little fondly.
posted by angrycat at 1:36 PM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


Right there with you, angrycat.
posted by palomar at 1:40 PM on August 14, 2011


Pawlenty drops out because he has 2,293, which is 2,530 less than Bachmann's 4,823.

So a swing of maybe a thousand voters could have changed his prospects.

Not that I have any book for Pawlenty, but that, as they say, is whack. Too much power in too few hands. We need to change the system.
posted by IndigoJones at 1:43 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


While Pushing Corporate Tax Cuts, Bachmann Rejects Extending Jobless Benefits: ‘We Don’t Have The Money’
posted by homunculus at 1:43 PM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


Former Sen. Phil ‘Mental Recession’ Gramm Endorses His ‘Protege’ Rick Perry
posted by homunculus at 1:45 PM on August 14, 2011


Rick Perry, in his authority as Governor of Texas, murdered an innocent man. That needs to be brought up frequently and loudly.

"It takes balls to execute an innocent man"
posted by homunculus at 1:46 PM on August 14, 2011


Any one know which one of these losers makes Bill Clinton afraid? 'Cause he scented out W. when most of us on the left were calling him a nutty joke.
posted by angrycat at 1:50 PM on August 14, 2011


Shouldn't the response question every time someone says that tax cuts will stimulate job growth be "where is the evidence for that belief"?

Because last I checked, there was no actual support for that myth contained in any data set that I've encountered, and it's being repeated all the time like it's the Apostles Creed or something. And I'd like my economic policy choices made by my leaders made on more firm footing than the Apostles Creed.
posted by hippybear at 1:56 PM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


(wow, I totally read that as Apollo Creed. Time to de-internet for a bit.)
posted by palomar at 1:59 PM on August 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


Pawlenty drops out because he has 2,293, which is 2,530 less than Bachmann's 4,823.

So a swing of maybe a thousand voters could have changed his prospects.

Not that I have any book for Pawlenty, but that, as they say, is whack. Too much power in too few hands. We need to change the system.


It's not as simple as that, Romney got 567 but is still a frontrunner because he isn't depending on Iowa as a part of his path to the nomination.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 2:00 PM on August 14, 2011


Rick Perry: Why don't you just let us get on down the road?
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:00 PM on August 14, 2011


"It takes balls to execute an innocent man"

"Multiple former Hutchison advisers recalled asking a focus group about the charge that Perry may have presided over the execution of an innocent man – Cameron Todd Willingham – and got this response from a primary voter: "It takes balls to execute an innocent man."

"In response, Perry's campaign was hardly apologetic. His spokesman emailed a reporter that, if Perry’s rivals "oppose the death penalty for someone who murdered his three children, beat his wife while she was pregnant with twins in an effort to force an abortion, repeatedly changed his story, who confessed and whose last words were an obscenity laced tirade aimed at his ex wife, and whose conviction was upheld numerous times over the course of more than a decade, including nine times by federal courts then they should just say so."
posted by cashman at 2:12 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Holy crap, I feel nostalgia for McCain. Never thought I'd be looking upon him a little fondly.

Puhleeeze! That old fart contributed so much to this current clusterfuck by making Queen Wakadoodle a nationally known figure.
posted by milarepa at 2:17 PM on August 14, 2011 [9 favorites]


Perry & Palin

No, she already torpedoed a candidate, and she's an attention whore...Perry won't stand for it. We were talking about this over breakfast, and my husband suggested a ticket that scares the bejeebuz outta me: Perry and Ron Paul. That's a ticket that could win.

Perry has a chance. I know y'all think that the country isn't stupid enough to elect another idiot from Texas; but they are. They really are. Perry is charismatic, he's good looking (by political standards), he's a smooth talker with no close affinity for reality, he's heavily supported by the Christian Right, and the Really Spooky Christian Right "Prophets". He's surrounded by True BelieversTM, the Teahadists love him, and he's Teflon like Reagan. Of all the folks the Dems have to worry about; Perry is the big dog in this fight now.

The only thing that can defeat Perry is the truth about how his "reign" over Texas has actually worked out for the folks that live here, as opposed to the folks who make money here. Truth is our best weapon...hell, it may be our only weapon.

A friend of a friend is creating a site about how Perry has been bad for Texas, where data points, articles, statistics, and other goodies will be showcased. It's not ready to roll, she just got the domain this weekend; but if any of y'all would like to help gather data, or otherwise volunteer, please memail me, and I'll pass along your contact data.
posted by dejah420 at 2:23 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Paul makes no sense as a VP for Perry. He will have the tea party votes already at that point.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 2:28 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


a ticket that scares the bejeebuz outta me: Perry and Ron Paul. That's a ticket that could win.
One of them would have to move, or else Texas cannot vote for both of them (by the Twelfth Amendment).

I think that conservatives would have an extremely difficult time winning the electoral vote without Texas, so (presuming neither moves) this would pretty much guarantee Vice President Biden's second term.
posted by Flunkie at 2:28 PM on August 14, 2011


who confessed and whose last words were an obscenity laced tirade aimed at his ex wife

Holy shit cashman. The New Yorker article from 2009 contradicts this. This is an outright lie, right? Also he never confessed, right? Fuck them. Fuckers all.
posted by futz at 2:30 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Paul makes no sense as a VP for Perry. He will have the tea party votes already at that point.

Also it'd be more difficult to get around the constitutional requirement that they come from different states than it was for Bush and Vader.
posted by waitingtoderail at 2:30 PM on August 14, 2011


And I guess the one that moves would have to resign his current position? I don't know this to be true, I'm just guessing.
posted by Flunkie at 2:30 PM on August 14, 2011


No, I'd forgotten the different states rule. Well then, I dunno who he'd ask to the big dance.
posted by dejah420 at 2:31 PM on August 14, 2011


No, she already torpedoed a candidate, and she's an attention whore...Perry won't stand for it.

I don't know Perry very well, but I think Palin drawing attention to the campaign is something that would be viewed as a strength. She's a dolt, but I've seen some of the crazy that surrounds her. Plus it would fit right into that attitude that women should submit to the man in a christian household, that many subscribe to. Unless he has explicitly ruled it out, I won't.

Perry has a chance. I know y'all think that the country isn't stupid enough to elect another idiot from Texas; but they are. They really are.


I certainly know that indeed it could happen. Obama didn't even trounce McCain/Palin. Perry/Palin would be a problem.

but if any of y'all would like to help gather data

Aye.

Well then, I dunno who he'd ask to the big dance.

Palin.
posted by cashman at 2:33 PM on August 14, 2011


cashman, there is no chance Palin will be the Veep nom. None. The Tea Party may drive the nomination process but the people who fund things have the ear of the actual nominee, and after the way she handled her veep-nom-dom last time around there is zero chance they will give her another shot. It doesn't matter how much sense it might make electorally. The people who think they should by heritage own the Republican Party will never, ever willingly give her a platform like that again.
posted by localroger at 2:47 PM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


And I guess the one that moves would have to resign his current position? I don't know this to be true, I'm just guessing.

Paul has already announced he is not going to run for Congress again. The state thing they could probably dance around but look:

1. Paul brings nothing to the ticket.
2. Perry would not want someone like Paul, who will always vote on his ideals (which are not in line with how Perry would govern), as his tie-breaking vote in the Senate.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 2:49 PM on August 14, 2011


Nationally Bachmann is too far out and Romney is too Mormon and Massachusettsy, but Perry is, if you don't look very closely (and looking closelyt is really not the strong suit of the Republican voting populace), great. Plain but well spoken, true believer, thumps his bible and his gun in equal measures, has some (arguable) bona fides in terms of economic success, crime, and speaking truth to power. That guy gives me the damn willies.

I sent some dough to the Texas Democratic party the same day that our fair governor announced. I'm a Texas Democrat and will pay as much as I can afford anyway, but it seemed like a good day for it.

Meet Rick Perry is something the TDP has been working on. I hope someone somewhere has some dirt on him, other than his abhorrent record, that is, because otherwise I think he is extremely electable.
posted by dirtdirt at 2:50 PM on August 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


there is no chance Palin will be the Veep nom

I wonder who then. Maybe some business person they'll also brand "job creator".
posted by cashman at 2:54 PM on August 14, 2011


The whole Cameron Todd Willingham story is one of blatant ass-covering by Perry and his cronies. After a Forensic Science Commission was established to look into cases exactly like Willingham's, Perry gutted the commission right before they took up Willingham's case. More recently, Texas' Attorney General ruled that the FSC does not have standing to investigate Willingham's case because it happened before the FSC was established—never mind that it was established in response to the Willingham case.

I'm just scratching the surface, really. More here.
posted by adamrice at 3:00 PM on August 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


~there is no chance Palin will be the Veep nom

~I wonder who then.


Well, Mitch Daniels was seriously discussed as a possible Presidential candidate, before he decided not to run. I could see him being drafted as a veep. Two governors on the ticket?

I agree Palin would not be a veep. I think her sights are set a lot higher than that, now. I wonder, though, if she isn't looking to be some sort of shadow-president? The Tea-Party figurehead whispering orders to the President? At least in her fantasies.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:00 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


I wonder, though, if she isn't looking to be some sort of shadow-president? The Tea-Party figurehead whispering orders to the President?

At least that way she'd have no formal term to serve out so she could quit anytime she wanted saw a more lucrative opportunity without raising any eyebrows for doing so.
posted by hippybear at 3:05 PM on August 14, 2011


Extra "no" with a side of special sauce for Mitch Daniels as well. This whole republican scenario in any other time would be high comedy. Now it is a scarily farcical potential reality.
posted by futz at 3:06 PM on August 14, 2011


Perry/Palin would be a problem.

Maybe Perry offers Bachmann the VP slot in exchange for an early withdrawal from the primaries.

Palin is a non-issue. She'll endorse Perry in exchange for a prominent speaking slot at the GOP Convention that will help keep her appearance fees up. It will improve Perry's numbers a few points. But the election will still be decided on the economy.
posted by Trurl at 3:25 PM on August 14, 2011


empath: This is not a winning election tactic.

Obviously you do not remember Thomas Eagleton.
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:44 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Ron Paul is a very unlikely VP pick. People see him as a niche product with a low ceiling. Very few pundits are even taking his showing in the straw poll seriously, even though he came in second.
posted by humanfont at 4:35 PM on August 14, 2011


jfuller wrote: There are a number of "yeah, but" points about this (Texas oil jobs are up because oil is up, Texas military jobs are up because war is up, lots of the other new jobs are low-wage, etc.) but you don't want to be going "yeah, but" because that means you're already back on your heels defending, while the other guy is saying "Texas a low-tax state, a low-regulation state, a right-to-work state, we already did tort reform, and we're creating more new jobs that anybody else by a large margin. You want to talk jobs? Go for it.

Too bad for them, California has been adding jobs at a faster pace than Texas for the past year. Texas bottomed out in December 2009, and has added 379,600 jobs over the 19 months since. That's a little under 20,000 jobs a month. California, on the other hand, didn't bottom until 9 months later in September 2010. Over the 10 months since, that's a little over 20,000 jobs a month.

So I wouldn't say "yeah, but." I'd just say "California has added jobs at a faster rate than Texas since the unemployment trough."

* I'm using July as the current month, since that's the latest month for which employment data is presently available.
posted by wierdo at 5:21 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Ok, here's another idea for VP that particularly chills me: Not Ron Paul, but Rand Paul. Just like old Pops, except every refreshingly lucid yet loopy bone in Ron's body is replaced with a party-line-toeing, Wall Street-kowtowing one in the son. He has the tea party bonafides, the Paul name, and none of the pesky candor.
posted by threeants at 5:58 PM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


14 Reasons Why Rick Perry Would Be A Really, Really Bad President

Hint: While Governor he doubled the total state budget AND doubled the total state debt while raising taxes. Anyone told the Tea Party members?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:08 PM on August 14, 2011


villanelles at dawn: One of my favorite lines from the Economist liveblog of the recent debates: "I have never been as sure of anything as Michele Bachmann is of everything."

...full of passionate intensity.
posted by Skygazer at 6:26 PM on August 14, 2011


Waitwaitwait... Shouldn't Rick Perry be running for President of the Republic of Texas?
posted by 4ster at 6:41 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


But then I remember the summer of 2000, and my feeling just as reassured by their profile of Gore, that there was no way he could lose the election against the buffoon Bush. Who knows!

Technically, Gore did win. But why let voters and electoral colleges get in the way of patriotic Americans being granted dictatorial powers?

So how good will the Democrats be at keeping the GOP from stealing the election again?
posted by Celsius1414 at 6:44 PM on August 14, 2011


Just like old Pops, except every refreshingly lucid yet loopy bone in Ron's body is replaced with a party-line-toeing, Wall Street-kowtowing one in the son.

Wall Street wants nothing to do with the Tea Party line. Hence the "Tea Party Downgrade." They don't want the Balanced Budget Amendment either. All of that is economic suicide.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:02 PM on August 14, 2011



14 Reasons Why Rick Perry Would Be A Really, Really Bad President

Hint: While Governor he doubled the total state budget AND doubled the total state debt while raising taxes. Anyone told the Tea Party members?


I guess not, because that's pretty damning against Rick Perry. And the author hates Obama. It's going to take a seriously calculated balance of timing and ads to push the Republicans into office, if it is going to happen. Some really weird things are going to have to happen. You know they don't want to debate. What would they stand to gain by a debate? Nothing, really. I'm trying to think of what excuse they will make up to not have to debate.
posted by cashman at 7:28 PM on August 14, 2011


cashman: "I'm trying to think of what excuse they will make up to not have to debate."

Perry refused to debate Houston mayor Bill White in the 2010 gubernatorial race until he released his tax returns. When White only released returns for his six years as mayor, Perry issued a press release blaming White for ducking the debate! And called him a "liberal trial lawyer" to boot. Dude's a scumbag.
posted by Rhaomi at 8:18 PM on August 14, 2011


Damn, that's nuts.



see, I didn't say 'crazy'.
posted by cashman at 8:26 PM on August 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm trying to think of what excuse they will make up to not have to debate.

They'll just claim it's Obama's business-as-usual, bipartisan, Stalinistic grandstanding.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:01 PM on August 14, 2011


Good color in this story comparing Perry and Bachmann's very different gladhanding styles tonight at the same Iowa event.
posted by CunningLinguist at 9:19 PM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


Michele Bachmann Versus Michelangelo
posted by homunculus at 9:21 PM on August 14, 2011


http://bachmanneyezed.tumblr.com/
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:45 PM on August 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


I got wild, staring eyes...

Millions of people living as foes

Come on you raver you seer of visions
posted by Meatbomb at 11:18 PM on August 14, 2011


Krugman: Rick Perry will likely campaign on claims of an economic miracle in Texas, but the miracle is a myth.
posted by homunculus at 12:19 AM on August 15, 2011


Thank you Benny Andajetz; Rachel Maddow really shines the light on the complete batshit insane lunacy that is out there trying to run your country. Scary. It seems that you all might soon be living the Handmaids Tale. More on the New Apostolic Reformation; oh ... and Texas LOL.
posted by adamvasco at 12:45 AM on August 15, 2011


Romney/Bachmann = McCain/Palin version 2.0

Also, now I really want a corn dog. I don't think I've even seen on in Britain since I moved here 5 years ago.
posted by like_neon at 2:12 AM on August 15, 2011


Wouldn't Bachman as VP be likely to stray off the reservation, in terms of Romney's policies? Do we have historical examples of VPs who are to extreme right or left with a more moderate president?

There's Dick Cheny, but he's more like a dark force possessing a monkeyhead of a president.
posted by angrycat at 5:15 AM on August 15, 2011


Metafilter: huddling under blankie watching kittens ride roombas

pretty much how I feel about the coming election.


Kitten / Roomba 2012
posted by mikepop at 7:52 AM on August 15, 2011


Kitten / Roomba 2012

Sure, President Kitten thinks he's running the show, but everybody knows Vice President Roomba is really calling all the shots. Also, do not go hunting with that vacuum cleaner.
posted by localroger at 8:46 AM on August 15, 2011 [1 favorite]


Too bad for them, California has been adding jobs at a faster pace than Texas for the past year. Texas bottomed out in December 2009, and has added 379,600 jobs over the 19 months since. That's a little under 20,000 jobs a month. California, on the other hand, didn't bottom until 9 months later in September 2010. Over the 10 months since, that's a little over 20,000 jobs a month.

Right, so... Perry/Issa 2012 then?
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:06 AM on August 15, 2011


Wouldn't Bachman as VP be likely to stray off the reservation, in terms of Romney's policies? Do we have historical examples of VPs who are to extreme right or left with a more moderate president?

Watching from the sidelines, I got the impression McCain was originally a strong contender as a "moderate" but the addition of Palin made him slide into The Crazy. I don't know, maybe he was always extreme right and Palin suited him, but that's what it looked like to me.

Thus I could see it happening the same way with a Romney/Bachmann pairing. Never say never and I'm not fond of eating hats.
posted by like_neon at 10:50 AM on August 15, 2011


What Michele Bachmann's submission theology really means
posted by homunculus at 10:58 AM on August 15, 2011 [1 favorite]


Ezra Klein's blog is mostly focused on Rick Perry today.
posted by homunculus at 10:58 AM on August 15, 2011


Rick Perry is a dumbass chucklehead born-again punk. Problem is, he's got the TExas billionaires club in his corner, and that includes the Swift-boater doosh-bags and that means, if he gets the nomination. The election is going to reach depths of shit and slimey, sleazy scariness, that I don't even want to think about.

I never thought I'd be rooting for Romney, if only because he's more or less of a non-psycho flippity floppity temperate doosh who's so awkward, but also, he's never sat well with the Jebus crowd cos he's a Mormon, and so he's literally going to be discriminated against. Go figure.

So, I say if Perry is in: Calling allcaring individuals who DON'T want to listen to an asshole with a billion dollar megaphone destroying every last good thing about the nation Swift-boat style, he needs to be called out and literally shown for SATAN himself, NOW and not when he secures the nomination.


Which is why, I'd like to announce that I was once at a Satanic black Mass and I saw Rick Perry sacrifice a baby child with a dagger forged in hell, just after he defiled it with his Satanic penis.

It's true and I have proof.
posted by Skygazer at 11:52 AM on August 15, 2011 [2 favorites]


A Christian Plot for Domination? Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry aren't just devout—both have deep ties to a fringe fundamentalist movement known as Dominionism, which says Christians should rule the world.
posted by homunculus at 1:01 PM on August 15, 2011


See, Yeats was spot-on, perhaps a hundred years early. I am starting to realize that Perry and Bachman are going to be something darker than the laugh-gaffe fest that was Palin.
posted by angrycat at 1:05 PM on August 15, 2011 [1 favorite]


I am starting to realize that Perry and Bachman are going to be something darker than the laugh-gaffe fest that was Palin.

I feel like I bring this up all the time, but the NIN ARG Year Zero seems to have been more prescient than I realized at the time.

Another Version Of The Truth!

13102951040 phone message

Wiki examinations of both of these elements of the ARG.

Of course, these events take place in 2022, not 2012... but what's one wrong digit when it comes to prognosticators? Nostradamus talked about Hister, right?

If there's going to be a Year Zero, Perry and/or Bachmann would be ideal for bringing it about.
posted by hippybear at 5:15 PM on August 15, 2011 [1 favorite]


The Wall Street Journal has a very interesting editorial essentially trashing Bachmann, Romney and also Perry and near-begging some white knight to show up.
"...perhaps someone still off the field will step in and run. Now would be the time."

I guess I expected less establishment pushback to Perry.
posted by CunningLinguist at 5:23 PM on August 15, 2011


I guess I expected less establishment pushback to Perry.

Reread that article - it isn't really critical of perry at all. His downside is "muscular religiosity" and "lone star swagger" according to the WSJ, which they speculate may not play well in Ohio and the midwest.

Really? Uh, I don't think that will be a problem. They also repeat the "texas has low taxes/Perry doesn't raise taxes" lie.
posted by cashman at 6:10 PM on August 15, 2011


homunculus, that link is disconcerting to say the least.
posted by arcticseal at 6:12 PM on August 15, 2011


Watching from the sidelines, I got the impression McCain was originally a strong contender as a "moderate" but the addition of Palin made him slide into The Crazy. I don't know, maybe he was always extreme right and Palin suited him, but that's what it looked like to me.

Well, she definitely pulled the whole campaign a bit to the right. Getting some of that far right cred was part of why he choose her, I guess.

Here's the fatal flaw though: Palin was way more interesting, dynamic, and charismatic than he was. Let that be a lesson to anyone running for president, you are running in the biggest and most expensive popularity contest of all time...DON'T LOSE IT TO YOUR OWN TEAMMATE.

Pick a goofball like Biden or a happy-in-the-shadows guy like Cheney, if you are depending on your VP to win the campaign for you...you are probably losing.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:19 PM on August 15, 2011


Speaking of expensive popularity contests...
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:02 PM on August 15, 2011


Speaking of expensive popularity contests...

*heh* As Stephen Colbert pointed out tonight on his show... she got nearly 80% of the votes that she paid for.
posted by hippybear at 9:12 PM on August 15, 2011


The Paulites are notorious for letting the other candidates buy their tickets, and last time around a lot of them came from out of state. They were checking ID this time.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:25 PM on August 15, 2011


Jon Stewart pointing out the obvious.
posted by mullingitover at 12:00 PM on August 16, 2011 [1 favorite]


The media isn't going to take Ron Paul seriously until he breaks out in the poll ahead of other candidates or wins a real primary. So far his wins at straw polls haven't translated into big numbers in the ballot box. It is a self fulfilling narrative and Jon Stewart is right to call out the bs going on here. From my perspective Bachman and Paul are both dangerous lunatics.
posted by humanfont at 12:15 PM on August 16, 2011


Perry Reveals Plan For Total U.S. Anarchy: ‘Put A Moratorium On All Regulations’
posted by homunculus at 12:32 PM on August 16, 2011


Perry: We'd Lynch Ben Bernanke In Texas
posted by homunculus at 1:13 PM on August 16, 2011


Treasurer to Colbert's PAC Quits, Becomes Rick Perry's Campaign Treasurer

Not a joke.
posted by darth_tedious at 3:46 PM on August 16, 2011


Perry Reveals Plan For Total U.S. Anarchy: ‘Put A Moratorium On All Regulations’

Holy crap dude. What the hell. Thanks homunculus.
posted by cashman at 4:48 PM on August 16, 2011


Remember there is no difference between Perry and Obama, or Bachmann and Obama. Glenn Greenwald and Ralph Nader tolde so. It's true. Pay nO attention to minor policy differences like if the government should issue regulations, ever.
posted by humanfont at 5:44 PM on August 16, 2011 [1 favorite]


I watch pundits talk about the Republican Presidential Candidates as if they are standing on the edge of an Olympic swimming pool. The man says "Ready, Set,..." and fires his gun. Some of the candidates jump in when the gun fires, while others were on the phone, had their back turned, or was out of the room. And the announcer calls out...
"In lane 1, Mitt Romney is doing a beautiful backstroke-in place "Great Form!"."
"In lane 2, Michele Bachmann is dressed in a stunning black one piece, but she's swimming in circles, using only her right arm and right leg, leaving people to wonder...Is she having a stroke?"
"In lane 3 & 4 are Tim Pawlenty and Rick Santorum, both are the only two in a Speedo, and this is their first time in a Speedo. They wanted to make sure they looked like professional swimmers, however, Pawlenty merely dog-paddles until he sinks, while Santorum is just swimming badly."
"Climbing the high dive is Sarah Palin, done up like Mrs. America in a swimsuit competition, complete with sash and heels."
"In lane 5, Newt Gingrich slips, falls, breaks a hip, then falls into the water, only to scream for help."
"In lane 6, should be Rick Perry. However he isn't present when the Gun fires. He walks into the room, sees that the race already started, thinks "Oh-Shit!", proceeds to run down the side of the pool, while stripping, and jumps in half way, wearing only his gun."
"Lane 7, is empty. We are sad to learn that Jon Huntsman died in a fatal car wreck on his way to the pool."
Lane 8, Ron Paul, dressed in a 1919 full-piece garb, swims up and down his lane, multiple times, but is dismissed as "Doesn't Count!" due to he's crazy.
And along side the outer edge of the pool is Herman Cain. Because there wasn't enough lanes, he is swimming along side the pool, on his stomach, on the concrete, having been quoted as "OH I'M DOING THIS!"
posted by QueerAngel28 at 5:57 PM on August 16, 2011 [8 favorites]


Oh for chrissakes:
Fox News reporting both Paul Ryan and Chris Christie are considering jumping in and may announce within the next 24 hours!!!
posted by Rhaomi at 6:03 PM on August 16, 2011


And along side the outer edge of the pool is Herman Cain. Because there wasn't enough lanes, he is swimming along side the pool, on his stomach, on the concrete, having been quoted as "OH I'M DOING THIS!"

Ha!!
posted by cashman at 6:28 PM on August 16, 2011


Kevin Drum on the "Ron Paul is being ignored" meme. The crux of it:
I'm really tired of nonsense like this. Ron Paul isn't getting any attention because he doesn't deserve any attention, and Simon knows it. Paul has a small but fervent fan base that hasn't grown noticeably since he ran and flamed out in 2008, and he has a well-known (but meaningless) ability to fire up this little fan base for assorted minor events like this. That's his organizational ability and everyone is keenly aware of it. At the presidential level, he deserves about as much respect as Harold Stassen.
posted by Flunkie at 8:31 PM on August 16, 2011


The sucky thing is, a lot of this craziness on the part of Bachmann and Perry is going to eventually get drowned out when the really outlandish attack ads start. Laws have changed now, right? Aren't there new rules that have kind of opened the floodgates on who can run political ads?
posted by cashman at 9:16 PM on August 16, 2011 [1 favorite]


Treasurer to Colbert's PAC Quits, Becomes Rick Perry's Campaign Treasurer

Not a joke.Treasurer to Colbert's PAC Quits, Becomes Rick Perry's Campaign Treasurer

Not a joke.


No. Nope. No. I don't care who reports this. I just refuse to believe it.
posted by rdr at 9:48 PM on August 16, 2011


Perry Reveals Plan For Total U.S. Anarchy: ‘Put A Moratorium On All Regulations’

This is like unprecedented fuckwittery. Even Sarah Palin must be standing in awe.
posted by elizardbits at 6:07 AM on August 17, 2011


Kevin Drum's invective is somewhat ironic because it redoubles the media coverage of the "'Ron Paul is being ignored by the media' meme." Also, Drum's article is a response to Roger Simon's more sensitive article, which uses irony to its argumentative advantage. The crux of Simon's article:

"And no, media attention is not based solely on polls. The most recent polls, taken before Ames, showed Bachmann with 10.2 percent of the vote and Paul with 9.0 percent. That’s not a huge difference. Though those polls will no doubt change with all the publicity Bachmann is now getting because of her “stunning” victory at Ames.”
posted by L'oeuvre Child at 6:19 AM on August 17, 2011


Perry Reveals Plan For Total U.S. Anarchy: ‘Put A Moratorium On All Regulations’

I was thinking about this last night. I guess the voodoo "Lower Taxes to Create Jobs" chant is starting to show its holes like a worn out rag. So I guess the new drum beat is going to be "Loosen Regulations To Create Jobs." I hope everyone has a handy Food Lab in their kitchen to test their groceries. And I wouldn't recommend buying a new home.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:31 AM on August 17, 2011 [2 favorites]


And the who would have guessed that news reference volume is predictive of search volume? Graphical evidence showing media coverage affecting an internet-based political campaign.
posted by L'oeuvre Child at 6:37 AM on August 17, 2011


Whenever I see Chris Christie's face I think of Jabba the Hutt. I am not sure if this is:

a) Wrong, plain wrong
b) Wrong, but I am to be excused because he's evil
c) CORRECT!
posted by angrycat at 6:39 AM on August 17, 2011


This is like unprecedented fuckwittery. Even Sarah Palin must be standing in awe.

There's this guy I am friends with on Facebook. Lived up the street from me when I was a kid and we were sort of friends I guess - rode the same school bus, played neighborhood swamp hockey together and eventually skipped school and drank beer at the same time a few times. But we were never particularly close. He was always kind of a dumbass and kind of mean. But I use this guy and his Facebook posts as my Tea Party thermometer (I quoted him here). He freaking LOVES fuckwittery, and Perry, and thinks a moratorium on government regulation is exactly what this country needs. He also thinks that what's really going to fix the country is if we lower the wages of the president and raise the wages of warfighters.

For that matter, judging by another recent FB post he thinks that his mom is going to be in his anti-zombie patrol, but I can't fault him for that.
posted by dirtdirt at 9:50 AM on August 17, 2011


Good to see the Obama campaign is starting to take on their political opponents instead of just always compromising and trying to be reasonable with the crazies.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:29 PM on August 17, 2011


Okay, maybe I was wrong on Palin. I looked back through her excoriation from years prior, and thinking about how her movie has done absolutely nothing for her, and though the media loves to mention her, she's still limited by her own incompetence, she's probably not going to go anywhere. I won't mention her again. You all saying that she's going nowhere are right - she's just too easy to rightfully attack based on her actions and statements. No way she has the ability to last through a full campaign.

Also, Rick Perry's lone star swagger indeed seems to be hurting him already. I suspect in the end it'll be big money interests versus the internet (us), but for now, I don't see anybody with the composure and smarts enough to be dangerous. Of course if there were such a person, maybe they'd be an actual candidate and not a freaky tea party wacko. I think their only chance is to continue to kind of hide in the comfort of one another for an unprecedented amount of time. For now Bachmann and Perry are a little troubling, but after watching Obama's interview with CNN yesterday, he's still got it, and the last thing they want to do is get anywhere near a debate, formal or otherwise, with him.
posted by cashman at 12:44 PM on August 17, 2011


I liked Jon Stewart last night advising Perry to dial the swagger down a notch or two from 'Yosemite Sam.'
posted by Flashman at 2:27 PM on August 17, 2011


Rick Perry: Climate Change Is A Hoax Drummed Up By Scientists Looking To Make Money
posted by homunculus at 8:42 PM on August 17, 2011


"Rick Perry is a candidate for Republicans who thought G.W. Bush was too cerebral." - Paul Begala

Another quote from Begala -
I first met Rick Perry in 1985. He was a Democratic freshman state rep, straight off the ranch in Haskell, Texas. He wore his jeans so tight, and, umm, adjusted himself so often that my fellow young legislative aides and I used to call him Crotch. Even among state representatives, even among Texas Aggies (graduates of this cute remedial school we have in Texas), Perry stood out for his modest intellectual gifts. Hell, he got a C in animal breeding. I have goats who got an A in that subject. But lack of brains has never been a hindrance in politics.
posted by readery at 8:42 PM on August 17, 2011 [5 favorites]


"Rick Perry threw his hair in the ring on Saturday."

That's GOLD, Jerry!
posted by dirtdirt at 6:28 AM on August 18, 2011


Rick Perry’s made-up ‘facts’ about climate change
posted by homunculus at 1:30 PM on August 18, 2011


Michele Bachmann's bouncers: Unnecessary roughness
posted by gamera at 1:31 PM on August 18, 2011


Rick Perry to child on creationism vs. evolution: 'You're smart enough to figure out which is right'

That child is terrified. Why is what appears to be linebacker sized Perry all in that kid's face? Again, I will admit that I was wrong, and that Perry's "lone star swagger" is indeed going to hurt him and scare people. Back the hell up man.
posted by cashman at 2:10 PM on August 18, 2011


Greenwald: now we are bombarded with identical forms of shallow, speculative chatter from self-proclaimed experts who know nothing and babble about the most ultimately irrelevant matters (as but one illustrative example, see this bit of prescient brilliance from Jonathan Bernstein in The Washington Post a mere three weeks ago, mocking as "silly" the notion that the Pawlenty campaign was in trouble ("It's time to buy Tim Pawlenty stock. . . . He remains a very viable candidate in a field without many of them"); then once Pawlenty dropped out a mere 22 days later, Bernstein went to his blog to proclaim it "no great surprise"). That's the cheap, easy, empty, accountability-free, trivial punditry nonsense -- called "coverage of the presidential campaign" -- that swamps political discourse for a full year-and-a-half.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 3:38 PM on August 18, 2011 [1 favorite]


Rick Perry to child on creationism vs. evolution: 'You're smart enough to figure out which is right'
It's possible that the child is smart enough to figure that out. But is Rick Perry?
posted by Flunkie at 4:00 PM on August 18, 2011 [2 favorites]


Rick Perry's Texas A&M transcript:
History of the U.S.: C
Organic Chemistry I: D
Organic Chemistry II: F
Principles of Economics: D

GPA: 2.2
posted by Rhaomi at 10:35 PM on August 18, 2011 [1 favorite]


He got a D in Principles of Economics and thinks he can lead the US out the recession? The stupid, it burns.

Also a C in US History means a good chance that he repeats the errors of the past.
posted by arcticseal at 1:03 AM on August 19, 2011


at's the cheap, easy, empty, accountability-free, trivial punditry nonsense -- called "coverage of the presidential campaign" -- that swamps political discourse for a full year-and-a-half.

I really wish someone would create a pundit tracker. Every claim by a talking head would be entered and when it's proven true or false, it would be noted for the record. Pundits could be ranked on their tendency to make accurate predictions.
posted by drezdn at 5:46 AM on August 19, 2011


Rick Perry’s made-up ‘facts’ about climate change

"I think we’re seeing it almost weekly or even daily, scientists who are coming forward and questioning the original idea that man-made global warming is what is causing the climate to change. Yes, our climates change. They’ve been changing ever since the earth was formed."

This is what bugs me about the climate change debate. It seems that even climate change deniers are starting to admit that the planet is indeed getting warmer. It seems like there is a lot of focus whether or not humans are to blame for the shift. This line of reasoning makes no sense to me. It puts too much focus on blame. The thinking seems to be that if human's aren't to blame for climate change then humans can't affect it. Here are the only relevant questions.

1. Is the planet getting warmer in a way that will harm humanity?
2. Will reducing green-house gas emissions decrease/reverse this trend?

If the answers to both questions are "yes", then what we need to do seems pretty obvious.
posted by VTX at 5:52 AM on August 19, 2011


Caught on tape: Bank of America executive tells Rick Perry he did a great job, "we'll help you out"
posted by Rhaomi at 3:06 PM on August 19, 2011


Bloomberg: The Obama administration has found a banker it can do business with: Bank of America Corp.’s Brian Moynihan.

While many U.S. banks’ chief executive officers publicly oppose at least some elements of President Barack Obama’s plan for financial regulation, Moynihan, 50, is winning White House praise for his stance.

posted by furiousxgeorge at 4:07 PM on August 19, 2011


Huntsman's Great Opportunity
posted by homunculus at 7:03 PM on August 19, 2011


Holy hell, Margaret Wente in the Globe and Mail barely stops short of actually endorsing Perry. I'm a bit at a loss for words. She's always been a jerk, but I didn't think she was stupid.
posted by jokeefe at 2:15 PM on August 20, 2011


Karl Rove Created Rick Perry -- Now Can He Stop Him?
posted by homunculus at 5:24 PM on August 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


Sarah Palin's Husband Admits on Video That His Wife Quit Being Governor So She Could Make More Money
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:27 AM on August 21, 2011


Seems more and more like the Republicans plan is to just string things out with as many people as possible, for as long as possible. Maybe it's just the result of a weak field. It does seem to me like an adaptive strategy against the media and internet that will wreck a candidate once the spotlight fully turns toward them. But again, maybe they just don't have anybody. A week later, Bachmann is old news.
posted by cashman at 7:53 AM on August 21, 2011


Rick Perry on Abstinence.

This guy really is like George Bush on steroids.
posted by cashman at 1:17 PM on August 22, 2011


I wonder if right now the key question is whether GOP primary voters will want a Mormon president. Because I'd imagine Romney has enough money to hire writers who will create a personality for him.
posted by angrycat at 1:41 PM on August 22, 2011


Doctors question wisdom, safety of experimental stem cell treatment Perry had for a bad back
posted by homunculus at 3:00 PM on August 22, 2011


He must have heard about the Democrats' previous stem-cell research.
posted by homunculus at 3:06 PM on August 22, 2011


White-Hot GOP Race Down To Two Mentally Ill People, Person Who Lost Nomination Last Time
posted by Rhaomi at 8:30 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Attention Governor Perry: Evolution is a fact (Richard Dawkins in the Washington Post)
posted by cashman at 8:37 PM on August 23, 2011


Perry Surges in Polls, Testing Romney’s Strategy
Primary polls can be erratic, so the rule is not to get too worked up about any one set of numbers. But now there have been five surveys conducted since Rick Perry announced his presidential campaign — one each from Gallup, Rasmussen Reports and Public Policy Polling, and two from YouGov. Each shows Mr. Perry having vaulted into a lead over Mitt Romney.

On average, Mr. Perry gets 26 percent of the vote in the new surveys, as compared to 16 percent for Mr. Romney. By comparison, in polls conducted in the month prior to Mr. Perry’s announcement, he averaged 14 percent to Mr. Romney’s 21 percent.
posted by cashman at 8:55 AM on August 25, 2011


http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110827/ap_on_el_pr/us_bachmann2012
"Bachmann says she'd consider minimum wage changes"

"JACKSONVILLE BEACH, Fla. – Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann said Friday she wouldn't rule out changes to the federal minimum wage as a way to lower the cost of doing business and lure corporations back to the United States.

The Minnesota congresswoman told supporters at a packed sandwich shop that the corporate income tax needs to be reduced because companies are moving to other countries to save money. She was later asked by a reporter whether changes to the minimum wage should also be considered to balance the cost of labor here and overseas.

"I'm not married to anything. I'm not saying that's where I'm going to go," she said.

She did say she wants to look at all aspects of doing business, from regulations to tax codes, and will consider anything that will help create jobs. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour."
Aside from her forgetting where she was at, and saying "Subway" instead of Angie's subs, the URL is the funniest thing about this. She seems like she's toast now.
posted by cashman at 8:45 AM on August 27, 2011


Wow, that's just stupid. Is she going to advocate for Congress to drop the minimum wage to 8 cents an hour so we become more competitive in manufacturing?
posted by wierdo at 9:14 AM on August 27, 2011


I bet if you asked any of the Republican candidates if they favored lowering the Minimum Wage, they would ALL be in favor. I bet that 70% of Republican senators and congressmen would be, too. After all, none of them are personally acquainted with anyone being paid that little, and ever since Reagan, that's what it takes for one of them to give a shit whether you live or die.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:30 AM on August 27, 2011


I wonder if there is any connection between the "half of people don't pay income tax" thing and the "we should pay people less" thing.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:39 AM on August 27, 2011


Rick Perry Sought State Profits From Teacher Life Insurance Scheme
posted by homunculus at 4:57 PM on August 27, 2011


Bachmann says she'd consider Everglades drilling
posted by cashman at 7:39 AM on August 29, 2011


Perry’s Anti-Abortion Law Takes Effect This Week, Requiring Women To Get A Sonogram 24 Hours Before An Abortion
posted by homunculus at 3:51 PM on August 29, 2011


Perry's opened up a sizable lead. I don't see him fading away like Bachmann in the coming weeks and months.
posted by cashman at 5:04 PM on August 29, 2011


I could easily see Perry getting the nomination, but the media really doesn't like easy runs so I wouldn't be surprised to see alot of dirt (and it shouldn't be that hard to find) on Perry to show up.
posted by drezdn at 8:58 PM on August 29, 2011


Just seeing the return of Phil Gramm to the news cycle gives me pause. Gramm is the poster boy for skeevy connected politicians. His wife, Wendy skated away from being on the board of Enron, specifically tasked with audit oversight. Both Gramms have made careers of feeding at the big corporate trough while one of them holds some kind of public office.

With a mentor like Gramm, Perry has got to have all kinds of skeevy connections and benfactors.
posted by readery at 7:35 AM on August 30, 2011 [1 favorite]


Abortion Ruling Won’t Stop Perry: A Texas judge just blocked an onerous abortion law championed by Gov. Rick Perry—but that won’t keep him from pushing to reverse the 'tragedy' of 'Roe v. Wade' if he reaches the White House.
posted by homunculus at 5:34 PM on September 1, 2011


Interesting updates from Public Policy Polling:
Rick Perry verging on a 30 point lead in our first night of NC primary polling. It was tied 4 weeks ago.

Very random fact: there are more black South Carolinians with a positive opinion of Strom Thurmond than white ones who like Barack Obama

More evidence the Tea Party was so 2010. In South Carolina 41% of voters view it favorably, 42% unfavorably.

Obama trails Romney, Perry, Bachmann, leads Gingrich, Palin by single digits in KY

Perry does 1 pt worse than Romney vs Obama in KY, 2 in OH, 3 in IA, 5 in VA/NC/WI, 6 in CO, 7 in SC, 8 in NV, 10 in MI http://t.co/KyrIz1Q
posted by Rhaomi at 2:41 PM on September 2, 2011


Rick Perry Has 235 Executions Under His Belt. Will He Make It 236?
posted by homunculus at 6:05 PM on September 2, 2011


What is Palin up to? I'm starting to think I got lucky with my statement in January: "I'm wondering if they're going to have all the crazies rally around her, and if she doesn't run for office herself (pres/vice pres), she will continue to rally the crazies off to the side during the 2012 election, whip them into a fury shortly before election day, and then make all manner of "the world is going to end hint hint nudge nudge unless you kill the other side or vote for THIS person - now!!!"

Cause it seems like that may be where she's headed. I'm not even going to say what else I'm thinking. I have no desire to give them any ideas they haven't thought of.
posted by cashman at 6:01 PM on September 3, 2011


Last night, the Dead Milkmen started Bitchin' Camero with Rodney thanking Marcus Bachmann for praying away his shortness. "He told me that you're not born short, it's a lifestyle choice!"
posted by klangklangston at 11:13 AM on September 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult
posted by homunculus at 11:22 AM on September 4, 2011 [3 favorites]


Bachmann's top two aides step aside
posted by cashman at 8:57 PM on September 5, 2011


Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult

That was excellent -- thank you.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:05 AM on September 6, 2011


Rick Perry & Superman. Jay Smooth.
posted by cashman at 11:35 AM on September 6, 2011


Bachmann's steep path to the nomination.
posted by cashman at 8:20 AM on September 7, 2011


Rick Perry's Texas cuts firefighting budget. But don't worry, they'll demand federal money to make up the difference
posted by homunculus at 1:34 PM on September 7, 2011


I'm so mad at these sons of bitches right now that I could fucking scream. We're in the middle of a fucking historic drought. We've just had the hottest motherfucking summer on record (1929 doesn't count -- the numbers are probably spurious) and no appreciable rain in a motherfucking year. and they do THIS? Bastrop state park had 12 - TWELVE - firefighters protecting the entire goddam park, and now it's mutherfucking burnt to a crisp. One of my kid's teachers lost her home, and several friends in the caving community have lost theirs. This is an unmitigated disaster, and that son of a bitch Perry is going to tell us to motherfucking pray. I invite that shit-stupid asshole to pray in one hand, and shit in the other, and tell me which one fills up first.
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:19 PM on September 7, 2011 [6 favorites]


I hear your rage, DR. In 2005 it was just us NOLA'ns. Today it's the whole country. We tried to tell you it wasn't about Lootie and our stupidity for living here.
posted by localroger at 6:02 PM on September 7, 2011


Reagan Library Crowd Goes Wild For Perry’s 234 Executions
posted by homunculus at 12:36 PM on September 8, 2011


The cheers at the Reagan library for executions have been haunting me. I heard about it and then watched the video. Absolutely chilling.

The Willingham case has been widely reported, no? How about executing the mentally ill and those that committed crimes as juveniles.

This makes me so physically sick to watch, I'd gladly have it streaming from everywhere on the internet and lead every media report if people could see just what this crowd is all about. Why didn't Mr Catholic, Rick Santorum chime in as the death penalty conflicts with the teachings of the church just as much as abortion does?

?!
posted by readery at 5:06 AM on September 9, 2011


Tea Party Crowd Cheers For Charging Ben Bernanke With Treason

Tea Party Debate Audience Cheers Idea Of Letting Sick Man Without Insurance Die
posted by homunculus at 12:45 AM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


The CNN Tea Party Debate In 75 Seconds
posted by homunculus at 9:44 AM on September 13, 2011


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