Ken: Yeats believed that the fairies, the elves, the Sidhe, the Tuatha Dé Danann, however you want to put them, were the embodiments of this Irish mythical perfect golden age past, and if they are real, they absolutely should be communed with by all true sons of Eire, and even if they are imaginary, which I suppose he went through in his varying swings of faith and doubt, that they serve a fundamental purpose in knitting together an Irish national mythology which is different and better than all other peoples' national mythologies.posted by zamboni at 6:47 AM on October 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Robin: Does this connection between the construction of the national myth and occultism explain why we now have a Greek fascist party called the Golden Dawn?
Ken: Well, the trouble with the Greek... well, the trouble with them beside that they're Fascists...
Robin: That's issue number one.
Ken: ...I don't speak Greek, I don't read Greek, and I have not read any of their source material. Also, because reading Fascism is not something that I do for fun at this advanced stage of my life. So, I've looked at the covers of the Golden Dawn magazine that they published back in the early 80s, or the late 70s, when he got out of prison, which is always a good sign. You know, you get out of prison, you start publishing occult magazines - that never goes wrong. But the covers very much have Golden Dawn iconography on them - more in common I think with the German version of this "national folk spirit", than specifically English ones...
Robin: If you're going for Fascism, there's a wellspring there.
Ken: You do want the pure... no pun intended... stuff. But the Golden Dawn is so influential, that's why when you're looking for something that is sending those signals of national renewal, you pick Golden Dawn, even though obviously there was no specific connection between MacGregor Mathers, or even Aleister Crowley, and Greek national thought. I think Greece and England have shared a sort of national poetic myth, at least back to Byron, and probably back to the British deciding that they were the last sons of Troy. So there's a very strong connection between the Greek pseudo-intelligentsia and the English pseudo-intelligentsia as well. But I don't know specifically that this thug in charge of the Greek Golden Dawn is an occultist, or even that he believes in any of this stuff, but he certainly knows a good logo when he sees one.
Faceless governments imposing painful crisis measures from behind a wall of riot police? Not the future Europe wanted for itself.Indeed.
emjaybee:It's probably because the best alternative for their own well being is to leave the Euro. But if they do that it means that the EU experiment has failed, or at least is fundamentally flawed, so there is a LOT of pressure from the EU to stay in. And the only reason to stay in is to get help and to get help you do what they say.
"It astonishes me already that the governments of Greece and Spain are holding out on austerity in the face of so much opposition"
It's probably because the best alternative for their own well being is to leave the Euro. But if they do that it means that the EU experiment has failed, or at least is fundamentally flawed, so there is a LOT of pressure from the EU to stay in. And the only reason to stay in is to get help and to get help you do what they say.I think it's also a version of the nineteenth-century's Hapsburg/Saxe-Coburg-Gotha problem. The elites across Europe have much more in common among themselves than with the polities they supposedly represent. They have rarely worked outside family firms or their own political parties. At best, it seems like their only experience beyond the bubble of political privilege might be, like Ed Milliband's, a bit of TA-ing while studying Politics at Large Ivy-League University Where All the Other Technocrats Went.
Here's the thing: We solve this financial crisis, and this ugly tendency for fascism to rise amongst us, OR, we're going to have another big war.yeah. who cares, but I keep seeing this ugly note creeping into peoples' voices, and it's not just on the right. it's like everything is kind of trending in that direction.
The re-organisation of society in Ellinikon includes the introduction of food and health provision outside of state lines. Over one hundred doctors have been organised into a volunteer force that treats people free of charge. Most of the people who have found themselves without healthcare over the last few years are the elderly and families with young children. This is sorely needed, as austerity is not a policy. It is social and economic sabotage and has devasted the country causing a humanitarian crisis that is deepening...The same is true all over Greece. The thing is that these networks do not advertise themselves through publicity stunts. An activist from the working class suburb of Vyronas describes (warning: poor Google translation) the tremendous work and the number of people involved in their actions (as well as the immense scale of the problem), but notes that they don't film their actions. They respect the people that they are giving aid to, they do not publicize their names, they are mobilizing families and neighbours, but they don't film it. The left is funding, supporting and working with municipalities and these groups, but does not and cannot use them as political ads...
Unofficial food markets have also been set up to allow farmers and growers to sell their produce direct to customers. The Mayor’s office negotiates prices on behalf of those in need, allowing both customer and farmer to survive.
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posted by xingcat at 6:15 AM on October 2, 2012 [21 favorites]