Obama and Romney battle it out, rap style
October 22, 2012 2:56 PM   Subscribe

President Barack Obama and Governor Mitt Romney will have the final debate of the US Presidential race tonight. Yawning at the thought of a formulaic back and forth, while secretly hoping for a rap battle? Then look beneath the fold for examples of explicit lyrical parodies.

MC Bama may have 99 problems but Mitt ain’t one. Did I say Mitt? My bad, I meant RMoney. Not that Barack Flacka Flames cares, as he mixes it up hard core gangsta style with Head of State while Romney shakes it like a Etch-A-Sketch.

What's that, you want rap battles?
Alright then, watch Epic Rap Battles of History get crazy with it in the studio, as does Funny or Die. Those too polished for ya? Then take it to the streets!

Finally, Juice Rap News takes a more nuanced and serious look at the issues. Stick around for the last minute, so you don't get too depressed.

The debate, focused on foreign policy, starts at 9pm EST.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (4409 comments total) 50 users marked this as a favorite
 
I will again do my best to stay awake to see this epic battle.

(2 out of 3 so far!)
posted by iamkimiam at 3:01 PM on October 22, 2012


I was kinda hoping there'd be no new debate thread and last week's debate thread would have a shot at beating the recently set longest thread record.
posted by Kattullus at 3:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Final Debate Could Prove Pivotal -- "With 15 days left in a deadlocked presidential contest, candidates get their final chance to show a side-by-side comparison to millions of Americans."
posted by ericb at 3:02 PM on October 22, 2012


Also noteworthy, Key & Peele: Obama Raps
posted by maryr at 3:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


This one's on foreign policy. Everyone look for Bin Ladin's head on a stick around the half-hour mark.
posted by shakespeherian at 3:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Mr Romney, what do you propose to do in order to bring about a resolution in Syria?"

"Well, my staff has shown me binders full of bombs we can use"

also, drink whenever Romney says "I know what it takes!"
posted by ninjew at 3:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


A friend of mind asked me this and I couldn't answer: what's the over/under on Romney blaming something on birds?
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]




Romney's foreign policy cred: He sat at a desk near the Olympics once.
posted by shakespeherian at 3:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Now I am sad that I have no Rap Snacks on hand.
posted by elizardbits at 3:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Look below ye and weep young thread...
posted by Jaybo at 3:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]






Be back later, hopefully.
posted by obscurator at 3:07 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm going to make this one, sensible and intelligent post, then I'm going to make dinner, open the bottle(s) of wine and watch the debate... All bets are off at that point.... (and, in the spirit of this clever debate kick off) "Yo"
posted by HuronBob at 3:08 PM on October 22, 2012


That OctoberSurprise thing is about to happen.

So we're not going to Black Angus?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


I posted these Esquire links in the old thread, but they belong more here:

Charles P. Pierce: War Is Not the Answer, So War Becomes the Answer: Your Final Unaccountable-Executive-Branch Debate

Tom Junod: The Lethal Debate: Questions About Killing
posted by homunculus at 3:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The foundation for a sound foreign policy is when a man and a woman get married before they start having babies.
posted by perhapses at 3:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [23 favorites]


I have a hearing tomorrow that I should be prepping for. But I'm going to lose anyways, it's really stressing me out and I just won't be able to be productive until late tonight / early tomorrow morning (my typical reaction to stress. Need to fix it.)

So let's watch the debate!
posted by Lemurrhea at 3:10 PM on October 22, 2012


hey guys I heard there was a baseball game tonight?
posted by 2bucksplus at 3:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


So we're not going to Black Angus?

I am incredibly shamed that I know that quote and its context.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I confidently (and with dismay) expect variations on the theme "No Daylight Between Us and Israel." Mitt will be singing this number long and loud.
posted by GrammarMoses at 3:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Mr Romney, what do you propose to do in order to bring about a resolution in Syria?"

"That's something that I will disclose once I'm elected president."
posted by indubitable at 3:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Any ideas where a non-cable having American in Quebec can watch this final debate?
posted by Kitteh at 3:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Great post, B.
posted by box at 3:12 PM on October 22, 2012


War Is Not the Answer, So War Becomes the Answer: Your Final Unaccountable-Executive-Branch Debate

Actually, I believe Romney's answer to any war related question will be along the lines of "war would not happen if there were fewer single mothers."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Kitteh: CNN.com?
posted by carsonb at 3:13 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh fuck, and with that I'm following this thread.
posted by carsonb at 3:14 PM on October 22, 2012


Whooooooop, here I am.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 3:14 PM on October 22, 2012


As long as CNN.com allows Canadian IP addys, then that should be good!
posted by Kitteh at 3:14 PM on October 22, 2012




Kitteh, I've been watching on CSPAN's website from Ontario, it's been pretty good. Not as much stupid commentary as CNN.
posted by Lemurrhea at 3:15 PM on October 22, 2012


14 minutes until the big "October Surprise"
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 3:16 PM on October 22, 2012


I hope it's somehow related to Homestuck.
posted by The Whelk at 3:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


The latest Gallup numbers are killing me. 56/49. Ermagahd.
posted by pxe2000 at 3:17 PM on October 22, 2012


That October Surprise website is just a rickroll, btw.
posted by 2bucksplus at 3:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm relaxing in my binder, waiting.
posted by SillyShepherd at 3:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


SweetTeaAndABiscuit: “14 minutes until the big ‘October Surprise’”

Don't get too excited.
posted by koeselitz at 3:18 PM on October 22, 2012


I've been wanting to say this for a while but I just haven't been able to bring myself to compile quotes and cites so I'm just going to say it: Darrell Issa is a dick.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


I'll be watching baseball first and catching up on the debate (and thread) on recorded playback!
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:18 PM on October 22, 2012


*kicks rock with shoe* it's never aliens for real.
posted by The Whelk at 3:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I just voted! An incredibly old dude handed me a CONSERVATIVE VOTER GUIDE right outside the no more signs zone and I helpfully used it to make sure that my pre-researched choices weren't approved by the guide. Thanks, republican women's club of central nc!

I am clinging to the hope that the polls look so bad because everyone who has already voted has stopped answering their phones.
posted by winna at 3:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Yeah, his dickishness has long since surpassed the kudos he earned for fighting SOPA.
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:19 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm watching to keep track of how many ways Obama calls bullshit on Romney without actually using the word "lie."
posted by ambrosia at 3:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


You say you're still undecided
Like a 'tard on the telly
Always stuck behind fools
just like you at the deli
posted by Blue Meanie at 3:20 PM on October 22, 2012


Don't miss that Epic Rap Battle of History below the fold, it's amazing. EAGLE.

pxe2000, Nate Silver argues Gallup's track record is not that great when their numbers significantly diverge from the consensus (as they are now).
posted by Rhaomi at 3:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Rude Pundit: What Obama Should Say, Part 3.
posted by notsnot at 3:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I know the "October Surprise" is supposed to be a rickroll but I'm crossing my fingers for a true surprise.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 3:23 PM on October 22, 2012


(Warning: Rude)
posted by notsnot at 3:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Like goatse?
posted by maryr at 3:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I am flabbergasted at how close this thing is, and have my fingers crossed that Five Thirty Eight's electoral college forecast is the one that is on the money.
posted by never used baby shoes at 3:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


THE SURPRISE IS A PONY YOU GET A PONY AND YOU GET A PONY EVERYBODY GETS A PONY
posted by The Whelk at 3:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [15 favorites]


...that was meant as a reply for crushing SweetTea's hopes and dreams, but yes, it is rude.
posted by maryr at 3:26 PM on October 22, 2012


Also I belive the GOP knocked Reddit's servers down in order to prevent the spread of hilarious debate memes.
posted by The Whelk at 3:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


And oh god that poor pony.
posted by maryr at 3:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


There's a Very Important baseball game on when the debate is happening, so once again, I rely on you all to keep me snickering and up to date on what they say. Many thanks.
posted by rtha at 3:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


How is this race even close? Wait, maybe my question contains a keyword.
posted by maxwelton at 3:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [29 favorites]


A dancing horse pony?
posted by Gary at 3:27 PM on October 22, 2012


If the October surprise people had any sense of Internet history it would be a spiderman made you gay gif. Old school pre YouTube hijinkery.
posted by The Whelk at 3:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


In a way "Never Gonna Give You Up" is a pro-Obama 2012 message.
posted by 2bucksplus at 3:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


Directory Listing Denied

Damn You October!!!! *shakes fist impotently*
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:30 PM on October 22, 2012


That October Surprise site is down now.
posted by 3200 at 3:30 PM on October 22, 2012


timer stopped and site goes poof? Well that was anticlimactic.
posted by Big_B at 3:31 PM on October 22, 2012


October Surprise:

Directory Listing Denied
This Virtual Directory does not allow contents to be listed.


Maybe they stored it on Amazon's servers...
posted by FJT at 3:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


SURPRISE!
posted by maryr at 3:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The surprise is in our hearts, right?
posted by FJT at 3:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Surprise!
posted by trunk muffins at 3:31 PM on October 22, 2012


So the Octsurprise countdown finished and nothing seemed to happen. I tried to reload the page and it seems to have failed.

OMG OBAMA SHUT DOWN THE INTERNET!
posted by Lemurrhea at 3:31 PM on October 22, 2012


Ah. It's back up now with some sort of link to documents. I'm not clicking it. Please tell me what I've missed.
posted by 3200 at 3:32 PM on October 22, 2012


still loading. might be goatse or seizure robots or rgb.

sigh
posted by raihan_ at 3:32 PM on October 22, 2012


Omg I need to punch someone in the nuts RIGHT NOW.
posted by Big_B at 3:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


SURPRISE
posted by The Whelk at 3:33 PM on October 22, 2012


SHOCKING!!
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 3:33 PM on October 22, 2012


The documents are a frank assessment of American foreign policy in terms of giving up, letting down, running around, &c. taped in secret during a meeting with Rear Admiral R. Astley.
posted by cortex at 3:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [21 favorites]


It's...a rickroll.
posted by ymgve at 3:33 PM on October 22, 2012


For me it links to a blank white page; an unmistakable Romney endorsement.
posted by 2bucksplus at 3:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Omg I need to punch someone in the nuts RIGHT NOW.

Surely there is a single word in German that means this.
posted by poe at 3:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [23 favorites]


Please tell me what I've missed.

Well let's just say that it's never going to give you up.
posted by Big_B at 3:34 PM on October 22, 2012


It's Rick Astley.
posted by Gary at 3:34 PM on October 22, 2012


Well. That was terribly funny.
posted by 3200 at 3:34 PM on October 22, 2012


Nüssenschmerzsofort
posted by perhapses at 3:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


It's drone music! Nooooo!!!!!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


THE SURPRISE IS A PONY YOU GET A PONY AND YOU GET A PONY EVERYBODY GETS A PONY

no because it's enough work to mind the, uh, leavings of my small dog. so no, I'm going to consider a pony to be a punishment and would react accordingly
posted by ninjew at 3:37 PM on October 22, 2012


That pickle is kinda scary.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 3:37 PM on October 22, 2012


Final Debate Could Prove Pivotal -- "With 15 days left in a deadlocked presidential contest, candidates get their final chance to show a side-by-side comparison to millions of Americans."

Translation: You should watch the debates on television so we can sell lots and lots of advertising.
posted by NedKoppel at 3:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


In all the reliable polls, Mitt's numbers moving up, and in keh Ohio, he is closing gap with 5 point difference now
posted by Postroad at 3:39 PM on October 22, 2012


The surprise is that it's actually a pretty aesthetically radical dubstep remix of Never Gonna Give You Up, but we're all so dead inside that we can't even tell anymore.
posted by cortex at 3:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


I don't know if I can handle the next two weeks. I'm wearing out the CTRL and R keys on my laptop reloading 538.com every five minutes.
posted by octothorpe at 3:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Move on to F5.
posted by maryr at 3:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]




Would that be the F5-point plan?
posted by trunk muffins at 3:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


oh man, it's kinda tempting to stay up to watch the debate, but I've gotta teach tomorrow and stuff, and the internet at home is slow and kinda expensive in this part of Africa......... I'm relying on you all to carry forward the spirit of YAD KCOL SPAC into this debate.
posted by kaibutsu at 3:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Would that be the F5-point plan?

I know what it takes.
posted by never used baby shoes at 3:49 PM on October 22, 2012


At least that would be functional.
posted by maryr at 3:51 PM on October 22, 2012


Metafilter: That pickle is kinda scary.

(hi guys i'm on nyquil real bad k)
posted by palomar at 3:52 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Would that be the F5-point plan?

It's actually an F1-point plan: refresh the tax cuts. Umm.
posted by ersatz at 3:53 PM on October 22, 2012


No Daylight Between Us and Israel

Leave some room for the holy ghost, there, young man!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


Help?
posted by rabbitrabbit at 3:54 PM on October 22, 2012


picked a terrible day to take a break from drinking...
posted by SomaSoda at 3:55 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


What I would like to see is a mash-up of the debate as an epic rap battle combined with a Gangam Style parody using elements of "Somebody That I Used To Know" moderated by Jenna Marbles.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:56 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


I was just thinking maybe I'll try the drinking game approach tonight.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 3:56 PM on October 22, 2012


It's actually an F1-point plan: refresh the tax cuts. Umm.

Nonsense, it wouldn't help at all.
posted by howfar at 3:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I will just follow along on facebook. I have an eclectic friends list so I should be fine.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:59 PM on October 22, 2012


Wait, it starts at 9 and not 8? BUT I ALREADY STARTED DRINKING WTF.

i mean it's just decaf green tea but still

i will have to pee soon
posted by elizardbits at 4:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]




I was just thinking maybe I'll try the drinking game approach tonight.

I keep wondering how people can play drinking games with the debates without dying of alcohol poisoning.
posted by audi alteram partem at 4:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's actually an F1-point plan

As exciting as the new COTA track is, I don't think it will make a noticeable impact on the economy.
posted by ceribus peribus at 4:02 PM on October 22, 2012


72 year old Freedom Rider John Lewis kicks it up Gangnam style to get out the vote in Atlanta - you are my hero, sir.
posted by madamjujujive at 4:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


I know the "October Surprise" is supposed to be a rickroll but I'm crossing my fingers for a true surprise.

Don't give up hope yet: Donald Trump, Gloria Allred Rumored To Have “October Surprises” for Campaigns
posted by homunculus at 4:07 PM on October 22, 2012


C-SPAN is doing their pregame show.
posted by shakespeherian at 4:07 PM on October 22, 2012




OK NOW CAN I HAVE A BINGO CARD PLEASE
posted by bq at 4:14 PM on October 22, 2012


I just voted! An incredibly old dude handed me a CONSERVATIVE VOTER GUIDE right outside the no more signs zone and I helpfully used it to make sure that my pre-researched choices weren't approved by the guide. Thanks, republican women's club of central nc!

I am clinging to the hope that the polls look so bad because everyone who has already voted has stopped answering their phones.


Heh, Winna, great minds think alike. I saved my Republican guide that came in the mail so I could take it in with me to see who not to vote for. Our local early voting station here in Garner NC doesn't open until Wednesday, however, so I have to wait.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:14 PM on October 22, 2012


Hey guys please keep politics out of this thread - this is a rap music thread.
posted by Mister_A at 4:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


New Revelation At '47%' Dinner - Romney Was Hoping For Something Like Iran Hostage Crisis (VIDEO)

I don't think any commentary I can give to this wandering drunken horsefly of a response from Mitt could do it justice, but basically, someone asks Mitt the completely bizarre question of how he could go about "duplicating" the Iran Hostage Crisis to his favor. The one where eight US servicemen died, that is. Instead of responding like any decent human being to such a suggestion, Mitt says the following:
I appreciate the idea. I can't—one of the other things that's frustrating to me is that at a typical day like this, when I do three or four events like this, the number of foreign policy questions that I get are between zero and one. And the American people are not concentrated at all on China, on Russia, Iran, Iraq. This president's failure to put in place a status forces agreement allowing 10-20,000 troops to stay in Iraq? Unthinkable! And yet, in that election, in the Jimmy Carter election, the fact that we have hostages in Iran, I mean, that was all we talked about. And we had the two helicopters crash in the desert, I mean that's—that was—that was the focus, and so him solving that made all the difference in the world. I'm afraid today if you said, "We got Iran to agree to stand down a nuclear weapon," they'd go hold on. It's really a, but…by the way, if something of that nature presents itself, I will work to find a way to take advantage of the opportunity.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I just want everybody to know in advance I'm busting a huge fever right now, loaded with all sorts of meds, and I WILL GO FERAL IF CASPER GETS UP IN ANYONE'S FACE.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 4:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


CRAZY PEOPLE CALL C-SPAN
posted by shakespeherian at 4:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


That Rmoney sketch is going to give me nightmares. Something about the giant plastic bobblehead Romney is even scarier than the regular one.
posted by winna at 4:20 PM on October 22, 2012


CAN THEY DEBATE IN ALL CAPS?
posted by localhuman at 4:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


In all the reliable polls, Mitt's numbers moving up, and in keh Ohio, he is closing gap with 5 point difference now

"keh" is a combination of "key" and "eh"
posted by telstar at 4:25 PM on October 22, 2012


Something about the giant plastic bobblehead Romney is even scarier than the regular one.

how do you tell the difference?
posted by HuronBob at 4:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


IF ROMNEY WINS, I'M MOVING. I'VE GOT MY EYE ON A SWEET LITTLE BUNGALOW TWO STREETS OVER.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


If Romney wins we are all moving... to China
posted by edgeways at 4:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


how do you tell the difference?

Giant plastic bobblehead Romney is less likely to start a war with Iran.
posted by localroger at 4:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]



Giant plastic bobblehead Romney: is consistent on his positions
posted by edgeways at 4:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


New Revelation At '47%' Dinner - Romney Was Hoping For Something Like Iran Hostage Crisis (VIDEO)
"I appreciate the idea. I can't—one of the other things that's frustrating to me is that at a typical day like this, when I do three or four events like this, the number of foreign policy questions that I get are between zero and one".
And by 'foreign policy' I mean 'treason'.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Giant plastic bobblehead Romney prolly has more respect for women as actual human beings and not just mindless baby machines.
posted by elizardbits at 4:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Giant plastic bobblehead Romney is less likely to start a war with Iran.

I wonder how Giant plastic bobblehead Romney would do this? Send itself as a gag gift that turns out to be so not funny to the recipient in Iran that they retaliate?
posted by Hicksu at 4:33 PM on October 22, 2012


I keep wondering how people can play drinking games with the debates without dying of alcohol poisoning.

Well I'm Scots-Irish soooooo
posted by The Whelk at 4:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Send itself as a gag gift that turns out to be so not funny to the recipient in Iran that they retaliate?

If you were an ayatollah and you received a Giant Plastic Bobblehead Romney in the mail, would you not want to reply with nukes?
posted by localroger at 4:35 PM on October 22, 2012


WWGPBhRD?
posted by shakespeherian at 4:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


If Romney wins....that could be it for the Post Office. On a personal level this is really scary, serious stuff because that's where our family income and medical insurance comes from.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Well I'm Scots-Irish soooooo

...when you see a haggis you don't know whether to eat it, or shove it up your ass!
posted by howfar at 4:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Giant plastic bobblehead Romney is less scary than the real thing. Plus, full of candY. Maybe.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:39 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm sure the hostage Romney clip will get removed from context, but in terms of the whole question his response doesn't seem that bad. He's saying that IF he had the opportunity to negotiate some major foriegn policy thing (freeing hostages,) he'd take advantage of the opportunity. If anything, it's just irritating business speak. That said, it does sound pretty bad out of context - wonder if we'll hear about it tonight.
posted by Wulfhere at 4:40 PM on October 22, 2012


New Revelation At '47%' Dinner

I have clearly been a little too deep in the weeds on this stuff the last few weeks, because my first thought was "wait, there's more footage now?" and my second thought was "oh, no, that person posting on dailykos just hasn't been paying any fucking attention to the footage scene" and then my third thought was "I sound like I'm writing Pattern Recognition fanfic now".
posted by cortex at 4:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [17 favorites]




Real life is basically William Gibson fanfic at this point.
posted by The Whelk at 4:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [22 favorites]


The DailyKos person would have known if they were paying attention to the 47% motherthread.
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Are we really going to have two debate threads?
posted by futz at 4:47 PM on October 22, 2012


Uh, that new revelation was in the original video.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Curious to see if either of them will attempt to shift things to domestic or other issues.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:48 PM on October 22, 2012




That said, it does sound pretty bad out of context...

I THOUGHT IT SOUNDED PRETTY BAD IN CONTEXT. HOPING FOR BAD THINGS: "Romney: Ohhhh. [A few chuckles in audience.] I'm gonna ask you, how do I duplicate that scenario."
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Giant plastic bobblehead Romney is less scary than the real thing. Plus, full of candY. Maybe.

Well it's definitely full of something, but I don't think that's candy.
posted by localroger at 4:49 PM on October 22, 2012



picked a terrible day to take a break from drinking... sniffing glue.
posted by Danf at 4:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Oh Brandon, I think that's a given. I anticipate every foreign policy question getting a basic answer and then a pivot to "and that's why a strong economy is imperative."
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 4:51 PM on October 22, 2012


I think Obama has a distinct advantage in the foreign policy area, and I hope he presses it by tying Romney to the Republican's dismal performance during the Bush administration.
posted by vibrotronica at 4:52 PM on October 22, 2012


Dang, I forgot and favorited a few items early today.

Gonna run out early. Thas OK, keep on with the wise comments, cogent analyses, and plentiful snarks.
posted by BlueHorse at 4:53 PM on October 22, 2012


Well the exporting jobs overseas is a given, it is both domestic and Foreign Policy
posted by edgeways at 4:54 PM on October 22, 2012




"How can he be tough on China" was one of Obama's best zingers from debate #2.
posted by localroger at 4:55 PM on October 22, 2012


The Etch-a-Sketch one sounds like JJ Fad doing topical political rap THIS IS A GOOD THING

The rap battle with the eagle? Romney's rhymes were sicker, sorry. The actor realized that he'd be better off not tied to Romney's actual mannerisms; that sunk rappin' Obama.

But the 99 problems was surprisingly solid.
posted by klangklangston at 4:58 PM on October 22, 2012


A Comprehensive Timeline Of Mitt Romney’s Foreign Policy Positions

Oh good lord this is the scariest thing I think I've ever seen.
posted by ndfine at 5:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


""How can he be tough on China" was one of Obama's best zingers from debate #2."

Yeah, it was. Too bad conservatives went galloping off with a load of bullshit about how because the fixed legislative pension Obama gets has investments abroad that means they're totally equal. Which is bullshit, but like most things in this election, voters bright enough to catch it already know who they're voting for.

I've said it before — we always get the hippies, they always get the assholes, it's just a question of how the moron vote breaks.
posted by klangklangston at 5:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


October Surprise: Romney declares war on the United Kingdom.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I want this debate to lead to the headline: "The Gif that cost Romney the election."
posted by drezdn at 5:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


I don't care what anyone thinks anymore. I love that damn song.
posted by Roger Dodger at 5:04 PM on October 22, 2012


Who ges the Hippie assholes?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Is it that the Democrats say less meme-able things, or that the internet is left-leaning too far to exploit that to the fullest? Or some sort of weird bias on my part? Just, between Big Bird, Binders full or women, invisible Obama...
posted by Andrhia at 5:04 PM on October 22, 2012


Giant plastic bobblehead Romney doesn't hate the entirety of birdkind.
posted by winna at 5:06 PM on October 22, 2012


Who ges the Hippie assholes?

I think that would be Dennis Hopper.
posted by localroger at 5:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Who ges the Hippie assholes?

Libertarians, anarchists, and conspiracy groups.
posted by The Whelk at 5:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Any ideas where a non-cable having American in Quebec can watch this final debate?

It's on CBC Newsworld (English station). Try one of the big hotel bars, like the Chateau Frontenac, and ask the bartender to switch stations if it's not on.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 5:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


So Romeny hates birds.

Someone should check to make sure he's not chewing nitrogen gum at all times.
posted by The Whelk at 5:07 PM on October 22, 2012


OK NOW CAN I HAVE A BINGO CARD PLEASE

@acarvin

For tonight's bingo card: Benghazi, currency manipulator, 20% enrichment, no daylight, draw-down, arm the opposition, Bin Laden, Islamist.
posted by SomaSoda at 5:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


If Mitt says "Bob" more than three times in a row, drink the whole glass. You're done.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think Bibi, Romney's old friend, needs to be on the bingo card.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:10 PM on October 22, 2012


add - apology tour, no fixed date, our fine men and women in uniform, Arab Spring, Muslim Brotherhood
posted by edgeways at 5:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


it's just a question of how the moron vote breaks.

Yeah, *sigh* but if we're going by the "which one would you like to have a beer with" standard that worked so well for GWB, that doesn't work out so well for Romney, even when you factor in all the naked racists.
posted by localroger at 5:12 PM on October 22, 2012


If I knew for sure that Obama would mention the numerous gaffes from Romney's recent totally unnecessary and self-injurious international gaffe-based tour, I would totally watch this thing.
posted by theredpen at 5:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Take a drink every time Romney proclaims his superior Leadership without saying what he'd do differently, what different policies he would advance, or what exactly Obama did to not have Leadership.

Actually, don't, you'll die.
posted by 0xFCAF at 5:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


A Comprehensive Timeline Of Mitt Romney’s Foreign Policy Positions

Oh good lord this is the scariest thing I think I've ever seen.


If you think that's scary, Romney has Cofer Black as a foreign policy adviser. This is the same guy who was part of the Bush/CIA team that allowed 9/11 to happen and then went on to help run Blackwater/Xe/Academi or whatever they are calling themselves now.

We saw what happened with Cheney during the Bush years, when voters let the fox in the henhouse. If you want your military replaced with corrupt, incompetent and unaccountable mercenaries — if you want your tax dollars going to pay for the military to be taken apart and outsourced like another Bain Capital property — Romney's your man.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


I have the feeling we will not be seeing the narcoleptic Obama from debate #1 tonight. I just hope we also don't see the narcoleptic moderator.
posted by localroger at 5:14 PM on October 22, 2012


I am on a tight schedule here, people. Get the stew simmmering, start the rice, move the car, and open another beer. Can I make it? The BF is just realizing that this means no Boardwalk Empire tonight.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:16 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm baking a potato among other things
posted by The Whelk at 5:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


If you think that's scary, Romney has Cofer Black as a foreign policy adviser. This is the same guy who was part of the Bush/CIA team that allowed 9/11 to happen and then went on to help run Blackwater/Xe/Academi or whatever they are calling themselves now.

Yeah. This is definitely one of those cases where if there has to be a slate of war hungry oligarchs controlling our foreign policy, I at least hope it's the war criminals in the Obama administration and not the almost-definitely-worse potential war criminals in a Romney administration. I then just have a sad.
posted by ndfine at 5:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


The talking heads are predicting tonight's debate won't be as contentious as last week's, especially on Romney's part, as he needs to come across calm and sober and presidential.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:19 PM on October 22, 2012


Is there anyone in particular that I should be following on twitter during the debate (not that you guys aren't good enough for me, but I thought I would approach this sort of like Mitt's polygamist heritage would advocate).
posted by HuronBob at 5:20 PM on October 22, 2012


BBC is running a report where John McCain is quoted as saying "It was Osama Bin Laden who said there is a strong horse and a weak horse and clearly we're the weak horse"

OTHER THAN THE WHOLE KILLING HIM THING YEAH?
posted by fullerine at 5:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


The BF is just realizing that this means no Boardwalk Empire tonight.

Doesn't Boardwalk Empire air Sunday nights?
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 5:21 PM on October 22, 2012


Doesn't Boardwalk Empire air Sunday nights?

yes but time lords
posted by elizardbits at 5:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


The talking heads are predicting tonight's debate won't be as contentious as last week's

Expect those heads to say the same thing immediately after the debate is finished. Commentary that comes out minutes after an event was written before the event took place.
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Here's the good bingo card:

http://www.backupbrain.com/debate-bingo/
posted by bq at 5:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Commentary that comes out minutes after an event was written before the event took place.

I hereby retract every statement I've made immediately after having sex.
posted by HuronBob at 5:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm sure the hostage Romney clip will get removed from context, but in terms of the whole question his response doesn't seem that bad.

The 47% video came out on Sept. 17. On Sept. 13, after the Libya and Egypt attacks, a Romney advisor, probably Lanhee Chen, said this:
“We’ve had this consistent critique and narrative on Obama’s foreign policy, and we felt this was a situation that met our critique, that Obama really has been pretty weak in a number of ways on foreign policy, especially if you look at his dealings with the Arab Spring and its aftermath,” one of Mr. Romney’s senior advisers said on Wednesday.
The original source of the quote is the NYT, but see this post from TPM.

Based on their actual actions, it seems clear that "opportunity" meant political opportunity. If anything, the video explains what Romney was trying to accomplish with his fake dudgeon after Benghazi.
posted by Bokmakierie at 5:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


yes but time lords

The doctor needs to pop in and smack Nucky, then leave.
posted by The Whelk at 5:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Debate #1 suggests that the format favors Romney, but Romney is very, very weak on foreign policy in general, almost Palin weak. I think a lot is going to depend on whether Schieffer follows Lehrer's lead on not enforcing the rules. Obama can't come on too aggressively because Uppity Black Dude, but he underplayed that hand in #1 and got it about right in #2. Romney doesn't have a lot of other cards to play, and Obama clearly rattled him in #2. #2 format favored Obama more, but the topic favors Obama here. Hey, I think the popcorn is about ready.
posted by localroger at 5:26 PM on October 22, 2012


Hippie Assholes is my new band name.
posted by telstar at 5:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Public Favors Less U.S. Involvement in The Middle East (Pew Research)

A national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, conducted Oct. 4-7, 2012 among 1,511 adults, including 1,201 registered voters.
posted by cashman at 5:27 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm going to score the entire debate with 60s girl group songs
posted by The Whelk at 5:28 PM on October 22, 2012


Is there anyone in particular that I should be following on twitter during the debate¿

There's an open AskMe on the funny accounts for debate watching goodness.
posted by limeonaire at 5:29 PM on October 22, 2012


i think maybe you need to draw Debate Critic Snake
posted by elizardbits at 5:29 PM on October 22, 2012


There's too many tabs open, what thread am I in?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Will this debate reveal the location of the supposedly great American Peephole?
posted by srboisvert at 5:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


i think maybe you need to draw Debate Critic Snake

We both know the debate critic is an adorable fox.
posted by The Whelk at 5:31 PM on October 22, 2012


Try doing that and watching a ballgame.
posted by limeonaire at 5:32 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm going to score the entire debate with 60s girl group songs

That is obvious. I mean the last one was the Motown Hall debate, no?
posted by ersatz at 5:32 PM on October 22, 2012


Sir, I demand to know where do you stand on the Middle Earth Peace Process!?
posted by infinite intimation at 5:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


There's too many tabs open, what thread am I in?!

Thread is here, Mr. Burton. The Republicans, the Democrats... they've been fighting for centuries.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 5:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


OTHER THAN THE WHOLE KILLING HIM THING YEAH?

Beating a dead horse, eh?
posted by Challahtronix at 5:33 PM on October 22, 2012


HE INTERRUPTED ME, AND IT FELT LIKE A KISS
posted by The Whelk at 5:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


where do you stand on the Middle Earth Peace Process!?

THERE ARE TOO GODDAMN MANY TROLLS.
posted by localroger at 5:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


I have the baseball game on the TeeVee and will have the debate on my Apple laptop device. All I can say is, as much stupid shit as we're bound to hear during the debate, at least Joe Buck isn't involved in any way.
posted by mudpuppie at 5:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


Hippie Assholes is my new band name.
For the love of God! No scratch 'n sniff merchandise.
I hate the smell of patchouli
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:35 PM on October 22, 2012


"Romney has said, Anybody could have decided to finish bin Laden. Even [Jimmy] Carter. This again was a mistaken concept. President Obama didn’t just decide [one day to kill bin Laden]. The operation to end the life of bin Laden necessitated multiple points of decision by him. I know from operations I have been involved with on a smaller scale.

They are very intricate. You don’t just give the order and wait in your office for commanders to come three months later and say it’s done. No. This kind of operation, which is accident prone, hands on operation, one has to make one decision after the other […] It took courage and cool headedness and leadership. Anyone who says it was an easy thing to decide, doesn’t understand what he’s talking about. [Such comments] show a total lack of understanding of what this kind of operation means."

— Efraim Halevy, former chief of Mossad, Israeli’s intelligence service. [via]
posted by cashman at 5:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [15 favorites]


Has it started? This is so much better.
posted by sammyo at 5:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The talking heads are predicting tonight's debate won't be as contentious as last week's, especially on Romney's part, as he needs to come across calm and sober and presidential.

Except if he goes that route, isn't Romney stuck saying "Me too, me too!" or "I have a cunning new foreign policy plan that I will announce after I am president."?

The Right Wingers on my facebook feed are all over 27 flavors of loudly armchair generalling the Libya affair, planning the invasion of Iraq and humping Israels leg like an overly friendly dog. If Romney is calm and sober during this debate, it's going to be like thelling them there's not Santa Claus.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:36 PM on October 22, 2012


How will the candidates handle the potentially dangerous civil war among our friends and trading partners in Skyrim?
posted by The Whelk at 5:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


I WIL BE SAD TMRW BECUZ NO MORE DBATE POST

(it's still CAPSLOXK day)
posted by ninjew at 5:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'll be watching the debate while keeping one eye on live blogging from Andrew Sullivan and The Economist. Well, and here, of course.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 5:38 PM on October 22, 2012


Sir, I demand to know where do you stand on the Middle Earth Peace Process!?

Romney would be complaining about highwaymen in the aftermath of the War of the Ring.
posted by ersatz at 5:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm sure the hostage Romney clip will get removed from context, but in terms of the whole question his response doesn't seem that bad.

I think it sounds pretty bad in context. If a Democratic candidate was caught saying that, the Republicans would crucify them. It's actually kind of odd how little attention that comment received compared to the rest of the video, or compared to Obama's "you didn't build that" comment which really was taken out of context.
posted by homunculus at 5:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I would like to see Romney get heated and his voice get really high and squeaky and his eyes all beady with that fake-ass smile.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh? And when did you stop outsourcing your pillaging to the Trolls of Eastwick??

You'ld be th' last one to deal with the crisis of rampant Troald Dahls!!
posted by infinite intimation at 5:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I would like to see Romney get heated and his voice get really high and squeaky and his eyes all beady with that fake-ass smile.


WHEN I TALKED!

JUST!

LIKE!

THIIIIIIIIIS!
posted by The Whelk at 5:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [21 favorites]


and his voice get really high and squeaky and his eyes all beady with that fake-ass smile.

That's right before the face pops off and you see the circuitry like in Westworld ... oh crap, was that this thread or the other one?
posted by localroger at 5:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I had to hide a dear friend on Facebook on the weekend. She posted a photo of the assembling crowd waiting to hear Ann "Cruella DeVil" Romney speak in Boca Raton, saying what a great first lady she'd make. I'm not unsympathetic. I, too, once had to eat my caviar off the ironing board in between mansion moves.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 5:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


The Right Wingers on my facebook feed are all over 27 flavors of loudly armchair generalling the Libya affair, planning the invasion of Iraq and humping Israels leg like an overly friendly dog. If Romney is calm and sober during this debate, it's going to be like thelling them there's not Santa Claus.

If Mitt doesn't say "strength" 10 times tonight, I'll be shocked. That's his shitty little mantra, that he's going to treat foreign policy in such a way that America is showing its strength, operating in strength, bathing in strength and eating spaghetti with strength sauce with a little parmestrength cheese heaped on top.
posted by cashman at 5:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


I would like to see Romney get heated and his voice get really high and squeaky and his eyes all beady with that fake-ass smile.

"When I outsourced your jobs, I talked JUST! LIKE! THIIIIS!"
posted by jason_steakums at 5:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


I am hoping that mitt's anger comes shining through with a desperate intensity tonight
posted by angrycat at 5:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh dangit too late :)
posted by jason_steakums at 5:42 PM on October 22, 2012


I kinda wish we could have this thread keep going and no one actually turns on the debate.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 5:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


We could just talk about fan fiction or something.
posted by The Whelk at 5:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Things I'm waiting for:
The election to be over and the usual embargoed in depth story of how the campaigns were run to be revealed.

Also, more analysis to see if that first debate really Romney a huge rise or he already trending upwards. And of course, what the Presidential meeting that occurred after that first debate.

I still calling the election for Obama, to be decided by 11pm EST on Election Night.

I am hoping that mitt's anger comes shining through with a desperate intensity tonight

I doubt that'll happen, unless Obama really prods him, which I dearly hope happens.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:44 PM on October 22, 2012


We'll make up our own debate, with blackjack and hookers!
posted by jason_steakums at 5:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Ann is wearing a deep green dress, Michelle has on a lovely gray dress with a black lace overlay.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:45 PM on October 22, 2012


Fuck! BLOOD! KILL!! KILL!! DEATH! DEATH!! BLACK METAL!! GRRRRRGRGRGRGRGRG!!!!!!



I need to channel this blood thirst to Obama. Please stand by.
posted by Skygazer at 5:45 PM on October 22, 2012


I am hoping that mitt's anger comes shining through with a desperate intensity tonight

I saw this documentary movie called 2012 about something like that.
posted by localroger at 5:45 PM on October 22, 2012


Brandon, every time you post that prediction, I breathe a little easier (for an hour or two anyway).
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:45 PM on October 22, 2012


If Romney wins we'll have to suffer through a president shoving the faces of world leaders into plates of butter...... ''hey hey Putin, smell this, does it smell bad to you?''
posted by edgeways at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


We could just talk about fan fiction or something.

I already floated Clinton=Kirk and Obama=Spock but to no avail.
posted by fleacircus at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


When people in the other thread were talking about the debate thread possibly being some other thread, did they mean this thread? Not this thread?
posted by Anything at 5:47 PM on October 22, 2012


Which makes Romney the crystalline entity?

Maybe a Horta.
posted by The Whelk at 5:47 PM on October 22, 2012


Ann and Michelle both look nervier than I've seen either of them before. Michelle is having a better hair day though.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:47 PM on October 22, 2012


We could just talk about fan fiction or something

Tonight's B-meme: Big Busty Broads from Baghdad.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on October 22, 2012


I already floated Clinton=Kirk and Obama=Spock but to no avail.

Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor not a moderator.
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


I am hoping that mitt's anger comes shining through with a desperate intensity tonight

I doubt that'll happen, unless Obama really prods him, which I dearly hope happens.


I disagree! I think it is very, very hard for Romney to keep his cool. He desperately wants to tell you exactly what he thinks. He's the fucking Nathan Jessup of politics.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:48 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney would be a maitre 'd president. "A table overlooking our bombing of Iran, Mr. Adelson? Certainly. Give me just a moment."
posted by Short Attention Sp at 5:48 PM on October 22, 2012


Michelle is having a better hair day though.

Which reminds me that there are still some hair-switch permutations yet to be witnessed..
posted by Anything at 5:49 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney in his Big Bird of Prey.
posted by fleacircus at 5:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Brandon, every time you post that prediction, I breathe a little easier (for an hour or two anyway).

Every time I feel a little scared, I just remind myself of Brandon's prediction and tell myself there is nothing to be scared of if Brandon isn't scared.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:49 PM on October 22, 2012


Guys did you know you can get wine in boxes and just like stick a straw in there
posted by The Whelk at 5:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [17 favorites]


I'm just gonna throw this out there: George W = Harcourt Fenton Mudd
posted by jason_steakums at 5:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I have no alcohol. How much yogurt needs one drink to get a buzz?
posted by Anything at 5:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Well soon I will fall off the thread as I actually watch the debate -- the TV is not in the same room as the computer, for good reasons. See y'all in an hour and a half.

On review: Big Bird of Prey FTW.
posted by localroger at 5:52 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Depends on how old it is, Anything.
posted by curious nu at 5:52 PM on October 22, 2012


Ann Romney is one scary lady.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 5:52 PM on October 22, 2012


That's one ugly necklace.
posted by HuronBob at 5:52 PM on October 22, 2012


No! Not another beady-eyed little gnome white guy moderator! We're DOOMED!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 5:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


If Romney wins we'll have to suffer through a president shoving the faces of world leaders into plates of butter...... ''hey hey Putin, smell this, does it smell bad to you?''

Make that: Big Busty Broads from Baghdad with Buttery Breath
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:53 PM on October 22, 2012


Bob Scheiffer has a purple binder (full of women?)
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:53 PM on October 22, 2012


the TV is not in the same room as the computer

I solve this problem by having more than one computer and VNC.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 5:53 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh man I need to remember to eat things before debates.
posted by The Whelk at 5:53 PM on October 22, 2012


Quiet as mice? You look LIKE STUART LITTLE IN A SUIT, PAL!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 5:54 PM on October 22, 2012


I didn't expect the first "America #1!!" to come from the moderator.
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:54 PM on October 22, 2012


Keep me informed metafilter. Have fun!
posted by knapah at 5:54 PM on October 22, 2012


Damn Antiques Road Show is over, must be time to throw down.
posted by edgeways at 5:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I've got CBS on so all I see is Kat Dennings so all is right with the world.
posted by The Whelk at 5:54 PM on October 22, 2012


Wow, Bob Schieffer and Al Neuharth look a lot alike these days.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:55 PM on October 22, 2012


Ann Romney looks like a Tina Fey/Amy Poehler mashup.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 5:56 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I notice that it is a desk again so we can't be having with handkerchiefs.

We will never see podiums in debates again.
posted by winna at 5:56 PM on October 22, 2012


Hugh Jackman as Wolverine is rated#2 on the TV Guide channel's "Sexy Beasts" countdown.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:56 PM on October 22, 2012


localroger: "Well soon I will fall off the thread as I actually watch the debate -- the TV is not in the same room as the computer, for good reasons."

Say hello to my little HDHomerun. ;)
posted by wierdo at 5:56 PM on October 22, 2012


Gotta love that crest. An eagle treading on the shield-flag of the US. Why not?
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:56 PM on October 22, 2012


Which makes Romney the crystalline entity?

Maybe a Horta.


Romney's one of those haughty commodores who always think they know better than Kirk and end bringing the Enterprise to the brink of destruction.
posted by audi alteram partem at 5:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Bob doesn't give a rat's ass. I don't know, I just get that feeling.
posted by cashman at 5:57 PM on October 22, 2012


So Bob spends the entire time with his back to the audience? Was it like that in the first debate? Man, his hair person really had to make an effort.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:57 PM on October 22, 2012


Eagles in this past decade have gotten more bellicose.
posted by lineofsight at 5:57 PM on October 22, 2012


Eric Northam from True Blood is number #1, in case you were wondering.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:58 PM on October 22, 2012


Hello. I've got butterflies in my stomach.

Fremdshamen is that cool German word for when Romney goes into a David Brentian moment and your jaw hits the floor...

I'm also trying to get the hashtag #RomneyFatigue going on the Twitter. Also the hashtag #RomneyhasCoffeePoopbreath.

K, let's RUMBLE BITCHES!!
posted by Skygazer at 5:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm honestly wondering if I can stand an hour and a half of looking at and listening to Romney...
posted by HuronBob at 5:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Romney has already shown he can reverse campaign positions for the night of the debate and then backpedal for his base the following day; I'm hoping he calls out Obama on drone strikes tonight.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 5:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mit Romney? NEIN! OHNE Romney!!!
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [17 favorites]


Please don't do the song-and-pony dance of "The audience has agreed to remain quiet....exxxxcept for right now! When we welcome the President and Romney!" I wish Bob would just open the debate like "Alright, everybody get the fuck up!"
posted by cashman at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's bugging me that I'll be reminded of Cat-Bounce.com through this whole thing...
posted by wallabear at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm envisioning Peter Skarsgard - Hugh Jackman slash being written already Brandon.
posted by vuron at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney is Cyrano Jones; amoralistic capitalist who doesn't care what he leaves in his wake.
posted by Flunkie at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2012


Rom-nay so to say.
posted by ersatz at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2012


HERE WE GO!!

*rubs hands together*
posted by triggerfinger at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2012


CBS's opening reel makes it look like a star studded extravaganza is starting
posted by The Whelk at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Heh, watching CSPAN which is sitting in silence panned out; can hear all of the broadcasters making their "welcome viewers" at once. Awesome.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh man, they just showed clips from the Romnesia video on Al Jazeera.
posted by Kattullus at 6:00 PM on October 22, 2012


Time to get my sketchbook and beer which cost more than my meal tonight
posted by hellojed at 6:01 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama should just have the SEAL team strike force that got Bin Laden stand behind him for the entire debate. In Hawaiian shirts.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Go go go!
posted by ersatz at 6:01 PM on October 22, 2012


I just can't get over the sight of the giant blue and red set with Bob's little white head floating above it all.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:01 PM on October 22, 2012


Fuckin' Bob Scheiffer better not pull a Jim Lehrer Old-man routine tonight. I want him to get up and deck Romney if ROmney doesn't shut his pie hole...
posted by Skygazer at 6:01 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh this guy I like this guy.
posted by bq at 6:01 PM on October 22, 2012


I refuse to belive a place is called Boca Raton.
posted by The Whelk at 6:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wouldn't Wolverine been Eric's ideal mate, as the former can regenerate blood? It would be like a fresh candy, EVERYDAY.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The audience has also taken a vow of chasity and poverty,
posted by The Whelk at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Boca Ratohhhhhn, sez the Bob.

Never in my life have I heard it said like that.
posted by winna at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012


Damnit.
posted by cashman at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


OK, rye whiskey ready, let's do this thang
posted by King Bee at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I need to learn to lip read.
posted by bq at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012


They're definitely within choking distance of each other.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012


Really Mitt and Obama should be debating slash fic.
posted by The Whelk at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012


VOW OF SILENCE
posted by ninjew at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012


Don't fail me now, body-language experts!
posted by Room 641-A at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012


Bob, don't pull a Lehrer.
posted by zardoz at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012


No hanky from the cow. Or is it premature to call him cow tonight?
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:02 PM on October 22, 2012


Wait, why are they in the ancient homeland of the east coast jews.
posted by elizardbits at 6:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Oh God, Bob has a denture whistle.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


#bainport
posted by cashman at 6:03 PM on October 22, 2012


Clapping clapping...

Sitting tonight!! Good, Romney's shit will be that much more intrusive and stupid.
posted by Skygazer at 6:03 PM on October 22, 2012


God he could fit something big and witty und those eyes.
posted by bq at 6:03 PM on October 22, 2012


Or is it premature to call him cow tonight?

Betcha 10 grand it's appropriate.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obama's ON. You can see it on his face.
posted by gentian at 6:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


yes show 'em all how "nuclear" is pronounced
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:03 PM on October 22, 2012


Broad question on what happened in Libya...
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2012


Good, let's get Libya out of the way.
posted by zardoz at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2012


I keep getting distracted by Bob's giant gold watch...
posted by Diagonalize at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh Libya is like a free square
posted by bq at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


THAT'S NOT A JOKE MITT
posted by The Whelk at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh puke...on ROmney.
posted by Skygazer at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2012


Don't try to joke, Mitt. Please.
posted by cashman at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


METAFILTER: IT'S NICE TO BE FUNNY NOT ON PURPOSE THIS TIME.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


There's a modesty panel to stop the candidates from kicking each other under the table.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


All mr. niceguy.... not buying it.
posted by HuronBob at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Good that Romney goes first on this question because he'll have to lay out his theory and then Obama can refute it.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:04 PM on October 22, 2012


Sounds like an essay so far.
posted by ersatz at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama looks ready to pounce. It's like how my cat looks when she sees a particular smarmy and conservative moth.
posted by barnacles at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [30 favorites]


"hope that there would be a change"

you did that on purpose
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Be funny not on purpose? WTF is he talking about?
posted by waitingtoderail at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, god. "Be funny, not on purpose"?? He's started already...
posted by blurker at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney's trying to seem human with that opener
posted by gaspode at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney's blinking quite more than his usual.
posted by lineofsight at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Fellas, enough of the thank yous. Answer the damn questions.
posted by zardoz at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Terrorists....of some kind
posted by The Whelk at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney enumerates things that have been happening and then says they aren't.
posted by wierdo at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


i don't really want to watch this though

i wanna look at butts on tumblr

democracy is hard
posted by elizardbits at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [20 favorites]


Terrorists of some kind.
posted by obscurator at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


OH WE'RE LAUGHING AT YOU, NOT WITH YOU PAL
posted by ninjew at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh god I've already got bingo, I'm not going to make it.
posted by The Whelk at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


"our hearts and minds go to them" uhhh, mixed metaphors there
posted by hellojed at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh those darned Al-Qaeda-type Individuals
posted by jason_steakums at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Hey Romney - no mention of Tunisia, which is doing reasonably well?
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Shh..Romney rambling...rambling...err....zzzzz....
posted by Skygazer at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


oh for heaven's sake, yes, the people who killed the four Americans in Benghazi were terrorists, no one is questioning this, ever
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama has that intense labrador-retriever-waiting-for-the-stick-to-be-thrown look.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


And apparently dictators are better than freely elected leaders.
posted by wierdo at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Why do the Republicans hate democracy in the Middle East?
posted by sfts2 at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt: LET ME LIST ALL THE THINGS I KNOW ABOUT OTHER COUNTRIES
posted by triggerfinger at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


Obama stare
posted by hal9k at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The nice kind, probably.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:05 PM on October 22, 2012


we can't kill our way out of this mess

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED
posted by elizardbits at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [21 favorites]


I think this is literally the first time ever that a person in the GOP refuted violence as the solution to a problem.
posted by barnacles at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


Can't kill our way out? Really? HIPPIE@!
posted by Mister_A at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2012


Republican says: We can't kill our way out of this mess. NEVER FORGET
posted by ersatz at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney trying to get "yes he killed Bin Laden" out of the way.
posted by shortfuse at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2012


It's finally hit me--Mitt Romney looks like Matthew Fox's older brother: Mitt Fox.
posted by zardoz at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


WHAT IS THIS PLACE MOLLY AND ITS AL QAEDA TYPE INDIVIDUALS.
posted by winna at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The World of Islam.
posted by ericb at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'M THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF BIIIIIIIOTCH
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


EW I JUST HEARD ROMNEY'S TOUNGE
posted by The Whelk at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2012


i wanna look at butts on tumblr

democracy is hard


Can't talk, debaitin'
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


We can't kill our way out, because Romney can't kill his way out of a wet paper bag.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Obama started off not really answering the question, but now he's starting to hit it.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:07 PM on October 22, 2012


WHAT IS THIS PLACE MOLLY AND ITS AL QAEDA TYPE INDIVIDUALS.

I actually heard this as Molly, as in the American Girl Doll, and I thought, wow, that's really a new battleground for terrorism, it's true
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


highly relevant
posted by elizardbits at 6:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Why hello there clear, fact-supported, specific example Obama speech.
posted by The Whelk at 6:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


.... unless they're finally living up to all that "pro-life" bullshit they usually spout?!

OH SHIT IT MUST BE THE END TIMES
posted by barnacles at 6:08 PM on October 22, 2012


Thank you for bringing up the counter-protests in Libya, Obama! Actual substance!
posted by wierdo at 6:08 PM on October 22, 2012


First question is Libya and Romney just shit the bed. Obama looks stunned Mitt borked it so much.
posted by fullerine at 6:08 PM on October 22, 2012


OH, go after the BAD guys.
posted by maryr at 6:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


TO INTERRUPT THEM

YES YOU KNOW YOUR SKILLS WELL
posted by elizardbits at 6:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Bad guys are bad.
posted by homunculus at 6:08 PM on October 22, 2012


KILL THE BAD GUYS!!!
posted by Diagonalize at 6:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"go after the bad guys"..

allright then...

sheesh...
posted by HuronBob at 6:08 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama's on the attack, surprise surprise!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:08 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh no he said it
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:08 PM on October 22, 2012


We can't just kill peopl HEY LET'S JUST GO KILL THEM
posted by mudpuppie at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


STRAIGHTFOWARD

GO AFTER BAD GUYS
posted by The Whelk at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


ALL OVER THE MAP. Flip-flopper, asshole!
posted by ericb at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt will interrupt the enemies on the land, he will interrupt them on the sea. He will interrupt them in the fields and in the vales. He will interrupt them in the air and in space.
posted by barnacles at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [20 favorites]


Is this where I make my Chamillionaire joke? DAMN.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney says his strategy is to do what the administration is already doing.
posted by wierdo at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


WAIT

We can't kill our way out of things BUT we need to go after the bad guys? Are we hitting them with silly string? Are we sozzling them with limpid rhetoric? Bad metaphors?!
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


My policy is to go after the bad guys. (All righty then)
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt: "Go after the bad guys"

Irrefutable.
posted by goHermGO at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


He wants to interrupt the bad guys? Well, if there ever was someone who was overly qualified to do that...
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


By which I mean "the Muslim world," sorry.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


I deeply loathe the phrase 'bad guys'.
posted by winna at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


This is going to be a very rough, long night for Mitt. He isn't making any kind of sense in these answers.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt: my strategy is to interrupt bad guys. Yeah Mitt, you're pretty good at interrupting
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


I've read better speeches in comic books Mitt.
posted by The Whelk at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt has a binder full of arab scholars.
posted by shortfuse at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


"key our foreign aid"? I thought Romney was going to zero out foreign aid.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney: "Kill the Bastards"
posted by Rhaomi at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


Binders for EVERY Arab country!
posted by mudpuppie at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney is talking about nation-building and islamic scholars/the UN. My head is exploding.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


Terrorists just need economic development y'all. And more Chamillionaire.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, please. Before Obama got Bin Laden, Romney was saying it wasn't worth it to try.
posted by Flunkie at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012


How about some damn gender equality at home, Mitt?
posted by goHermGO at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


"Gender equality." - Mitt Romney.

My ironymeter just broke.
posted by Kattullus at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [15 favorites]


Mitt Romney proclaims the need for gender equality....in other countries.
posted by obscurator at 6:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


"Gender equality"? Really I don't see you as a beacon for that one.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama is fucking this up. Romney is looking legitimate. He should be discrediting his character better.
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Huh get them to reject extremism on their own! But also kill and interrupt them! MAybe banishment too! Mormonic power go!
posted by Mister_A at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Help the MUSLIM WORLD! WTF Romney?
posted by ericb at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


oh this whole "how we can help the world" schtick is so tiresome and presumptuous. As if every country wants us to tell the how to live.
posted by lampshade at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


I see that Romney wants to promote economic development in the Middle East. How about in America?
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Whoa Moderate Mitt comes out with a vengeance for gender equality in the Middle East. Of course, we can't have gender equality here, that's just silly.
posted by winna at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama suppressing a huge smile right here as Mitt babbles.
posted by The Whelk at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


I've read better speeches in comic books Mitt.

oh god now he is starting to remind me of namor
posted by elizardbits at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


I'm not opposed to the idea, but it is downright weird to see a Republican promote giving foreign aid to Islamic countries.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


"Another Iraq. Another Afghanistan"

Mitt talks like these are things, not places with people living in them.
posted by carsonb at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


"To kill them" - why does it have to be about killing? Couldn't a goal be less killing?
posted by limeonaire at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


His strategy is straightforward. Kill the bad guys. But not kill our way out of this. Got it.
posted by iamkimiam at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oooh population statistics! Very Presidential, Casper.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


DAMN YOU ELIZARDBITS
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


If Mitt keeps adopting new positions like this there will be no more orphans in a month or so.
posted by ersatz at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


Romney likes to number things alot. "Number One..., Number Two...". Anyone else notice that? Maybe I'm just picking up on it more often but I swear I noticed it in the last debate(s) as well.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


They're both pretty low-key. This is a good format.
posted by zardoz at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Something about the smarm in political speech is too hard to take so I've got you guys and the TV on closed caption. And beer. Obama has a hell of a death stare.
posted by emjaybee at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Oooooo Mitt has memorized population numbers!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


All over the map, sir.
posted by blurker at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


BOOM RUSSIA BOOM
posted by The Whelk at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


OH SNAP HE BROUGHT UP RUSSIA.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


SNAP
posted by zennie at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


THE 1980s CALLED
posted by jason_steakums at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


Why am I even watching. Not like Romney is going to convince me. If Obama cooked and ate a kitten I would vote for Jill Stein.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Jingoism FTW!
posted by headnsouth at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh snap
posted by bq at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Russia-slam!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Real question: Isn't northern Mali pretty much desert?
posted by maryr at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


IRAN IN THE FACE!!!

IN THE FACE!!!
posted by Aizkolari at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Good interruption by Schieffer!
And then Obama hits him on RUSSIA!
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


The 90s are calling to ask for their foreign policy back buuurn
posted by ersatz at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney: We don't want another Iraq. We don't another Afghanistan.

Which is why I'm more for the guy who's ending those wars, and not the guy rattling his saber at Iran.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


please please call them "The Arabs" again thx
posted by ninjew at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


1980s are calling and asking for their foreign policy back

SNAP
posted by King Bee at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Cold war is over! Nixon dead!
posted by Mister_A at 6:10 PM on October 22, 2012


I see the corners of Obama's mouth turning up every time Mitt quotes wikipedia.
posted by droomoord at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]


Mali?
posted by zardoz at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


1. Get rid of the bad guys
2. interrupt them
3. Make Muslims "Just say No" to terrorism

Simple!
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


RUSSIA MOTHERFUCKER,
.
posted by emjaybee at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


oooopsss there is that sick romney smile
posted by lampshade at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


The 1980's called, they want their foreign policy back. OHH!
posted by cashman at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


1980 - 30 = 1950 - 30 = 1920

I APPROVE OF THIS SORT OF PARALLELISM, OBAMA

*rhetoric + math = luv*
posted by barnacles at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


"The 1980s have called, they want their foreign policy back!"

Ms.Eld "OH SNAP!!!! AHHAHAHA."
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Aww, Obama made a foreign policy funny


(my boyfriend is looking at me and just kind of shaking his head sadly, whispering something about "you can't take the DC out of the girl..."
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The 1980's called; they said they want their foreign policy back.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


FUCKING SMIRKOFF
posted by Mister_A at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


zing!
posted by zardoz at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


Guys is it wrong to like your president so much?
posted by The Whelk at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


YES! "the 80's called!" joke. Ooh, with another slam about "not being in the position to actually form foreign policy."
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


Wow, Obama is going all out.
posted by ersatz at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obama might as well just start throwing flip flops into his face... oh, wait, he is...
posted by HuronBob at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


BAM! Tell it, my prez!!
posted by blurker at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Oh, sorry, you don't actually have any real power, do you?"
posted by Diagonalize at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Obama is schooling him now.
posted by Rumple at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


"You said 'Russia'"

BOO-YA!
posted by Room 641-A at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


"Every time you've offered an opinion, you've been wrong."
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


Stuck in class again for a debate... and this time, honestly, I'm just watching you guys instead.
posted by gracedissolved at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


this time mitt is looking down
posted by lampshade at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


Yes - he brought back the "You Were Wrong!" that he used against McCain.
posted by cashman at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


Also I got "Mali" in our debate drinking game; am drunk.
posted by Mister_A at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


"I know you haven't been in a position to execute foreign policy." DOUBLE OHSNAP.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


REMINDER FROM THE OTHER THREAD: IT IS STILL INTERNATIONAL CAPSLOCK DAY.
posted by Aizkolari at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Metafilter: your opinions are wrong.
posted by insectosaurus at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama on the defense coming on hard tonight.
posted by windbox at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt looks like someone just told him he has cancer of the puppy.
posted by The Whelk at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [15 favorites]


Romney likes to number things alot. "Number One..., Number Two...". Anyone else notice that? Maybe I'm just picking up on it more often but I swear I noticed it in the last debate(s) as well.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:10 PM on October 22 [+] [!]

Oh he would be using power point if they let him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Holy damn, Mr. President, that was awesome.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Wow Obama is on the ATTACK!
posted by Dr. Send at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


lampshade: "oooopsss there is that sick romney smile"

God that's annoying.
posted by octothorpe at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


damn you guys this thread is faster than a drunk cheerleader OF ANY GENDER at homecoming
posted by elizardbits at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Obama is rippin'
posted by lampshade at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


"Every time you've offered an opinion, you've been wrong," is a good line.
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney is so inept Obama attacking him makes it look like he's kicking a puppy.
posted by fullerine at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney is now smirking like Joe Biden.
posted by wierdo at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Calling him wrong, confused and being all "let me tell you how it's done" while calling him out on etch a sketch
posted by ersatz at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Oooooo Mitt has memorized population numbers!

He'll only impress me if he knows their Per Capita and how much Mining they produce.
posted by zennie at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Wow, Mitt's smirking is going to get him into trouble here.
posted by blurker at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Stuck in class again for a debate...

That's okay, Mitt is too.
posted by cashman at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


I thought that was a kind of ham-handed way to bring up the Russia thing. Apparently I'm the only one.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Admittedly, Obama sounds a little rehearsed on this, but I'll be impressed if anyone, including Mitt Romney, can actually remember his own record.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


And Romney lies about the things he's said in the past.
posted by wierdo at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Why is Bob bending the rules to let Mitt babble.
posted by winna at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


IGNORE EVERYTHING THE MAN SAID STAY ON TALKING POINTS MITT
posted by The Whelk at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt got his feelings hurt. :(
posted by mudpuppie at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


But I can say this: We are talking about the Middle East. Good you're with us, Nitwittens.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"I don't agree with what the president said about my record, it's not accurate."

I can't believe this motherfucker can get away with straight-up lying. Where's Candy Crowley when you need her?
posted by barnacles at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Moderator: I'm going to give you a few minutes to pick yourself up off the floor.
posted by ish__ at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"GOD, STOP PICKING ON ME ALREADY!"
posted by Diagonalize at 6:12 PM on October 22, 2012


"They don't happen to be accurate," but Romney wouldn't explain why or how Obama's wrong.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


oh here comes the boo-hoo poor me mitt talk.
posted by lampshade at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012


To sea, maties! It's the rising tide of tumult and confusion!
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012


What the F is a "geopolitical foe" exactly?
posted by King Bee at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Of course I don't concur...what what
posted by zardoz at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012


Doubling down on Russia? That's bold.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012


This is more debate #1 Obama :-(
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012


Russia is ...

I didn't read that, just citing on the fly.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


That's not true.
posted by The Whelk at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012


ohmygod answer an actual question
posted by ninjew at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


stop co-opting Friday Night Lights
posted by likeatoaster at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Obama is rippin

Too much arugula.

posted by emjaybee at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney is getting argumentative.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012


Not that I should need to defend myself in a debate, but here's my defense Mr. President sir. Look how calm I am! I am the calmingest calmer who ever calmed!
posted by zennie at 6:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


There is no such thing as too much arugula.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012


mittens is threatened by putin's sassiness
posted by elizardbits at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012


Has Bob slipped into a nap.
posted by winna at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]




The first playground debate.
posted by ersatz at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012


Damn, he's a rude fucker...
posted by HuronBob at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh no...he will no shut up..
posted by Skygazer at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012


The look on Obama's face "Jesus, man, I can't believe you want to lie to me like that. Assssssssssssshoooooooooooooole."
posted by barnacles at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


smirky smirk
posted by bq at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012


They're both looking to their left, who are they looking at
posted by jinjo at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012


YOU MUST BE CLEAR ON WHAT YOU STAND AND WHAT YOU MEAN

Preach it, Obama.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Tumult! Romney learned the word TUMULT for the debate.
posted by quietalittlewild at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


Moderator, we need a fact check here!
posted by triggerfinger at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012


uh oh.....we are getting into nanner nanner land. c'mon boys....get back on track.
posted by lampshade at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012


> They're both looking to their left, who are they looking at

Youuuuu
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


*throws bucket of water over candidates*
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012


Mittens, do you want some milk chocolate or a blanket or something?
posted by The Whelk at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012


I think Putin would kill and eat Romney given the chance.
posted by Mister_A at 6:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [17 favorites]


winna: Why is Bob bending the rules to let Mitt babble.

Old white guys got a club and when you're in the club you gotta follow the rule, which is if you're an old white guy you get to break all the rules everyone else has to follow.
posted by Kattullus at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


You have to be clear and know what you've said to whom, or the house of cards comes tumbling down.
posted by blurker at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney has the "you prick" smile-and-squint!
posted by not_on_display at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2012


Governor, here's what I've learned since being Commander-in-Chief: You Have To Be Clear.

FUCK YEAH MR. PRESIDENT! That's it - I'm having the first man-baby. Man-baby Obama II.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


I'm only hanging in until they both answer the cilantro question, then I'm going to bed.
posted by HuronBob at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2012


Burn. Talking down to Mitt like he's a five year old...nice.
posted by zardoz at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2012


My debate drinking game involves sitting in a bar with no tvs and watching y'all react to the debates. And drinking. I am clearly winning.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


JIM LEHRER II: BOB
posted by ninjew at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Someone mentioned this upthread, but by Golob that tongue noise is disgusting.
posted by obscurator at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


tumult more like tUmUt amirite
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:15 PM on October 22, 2012


I guess Obama is just going to needle him until he starts sputtering like last time?
posted by Ad hominem at 6:16 PM on October 22, 2012


Katullus, that's literally the reasoning I came up with for explaining why the women moderators have been so much better this year. They know that the old media types and the old boys politicians' club won't let them in, really, so they're all "Fuck it; let's moderate."
posted by barnacles at 6:16 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


I would be comparing Romney's foreign policy to Bush every sentence. He NEVER mentions Bush, if the Democrats had a president like Bush the Republicans would be comparing the candidate to him every minute of every day.
posted by any major dude at 6:16 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Darn banner ad, can't see how many fingers Obama is holding up while numbering his points.
posted by jermspeaks at 6:16 PM on October 22, 2012


I think Putin would kill and eat Romney given the chance.

..while riding a unicorn shirtless eating a bacon sandwich.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:16 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I like Obama's non stripped tie.
posted by The Whelk at 6:16 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Kattullus: Old white guys got a club and when you're in the club you gotta follow the rule, which is if you're an old white guy you get to break all the rules everyone else has to follow.

Not fair. He stopped Romney so Obama could speak, he stopped Obama so Romney could speak.
posted by maryr at 6:16 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Two-mutt
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Glad someone at that table finally pointed out Syria isn't just a pawn for the US and the defense budget.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:17 PM on October 22, 2012


Me, I prefer my ties to be strippers.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:17 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm hearing a lot of boilerplate. Bob is gonna just sit back and let them talk. Hopefully they'll ignore Bob and talk to each other.
posted by zardoz at 6:17 PM on October 22, 2012


5-0, Giants, btw.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


I am hungry.
posted by bq at 6:17 PM on October 22, 2012


Even Romney is looking kind of impressed at Obama's talk right here
posted by triggerfinger at 6:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's cool that Obama is making points, but Romney looks legitimate. So long as he looks legitimate on the middle east, he wins.
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Speaking of Putin, I think the Pussy Riot girls started their prison terms today. Fucker.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Syria is Iran's route to the sea? I thought Iran had sea ports. ?:(
posted by barnacles at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Fuck no, what is happening in Syria right now should not be referred to as "an advantage" for us. Civilians are dying.
posted by maryr at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Our ally, Isruhl.
posted by Dr. Send at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012


'..while riding a unicorn shirtless eating a bacon sandwich.'

This is my family crest.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Mitt's pin is all big and pointy. It's distracting.
posted by The Whelk at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012


If by vertical you mean horizontal
posted by bq at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012


here comes the bomb the middle east blather. time to send everyone's kid's to die other than yourr eh mitt?
posted by lampshade at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Did Romney say that Syria is Iran's route to the sea?
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Micro-striped
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012


Did Romney just say Syria was Iran's "route to the sea?"

And thanks Obama for mentioning that we can't have a repeat of 1980s Afghanistan (indirectly).
posted by wierdo at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obama still needs to speak more like a true believer and less like my dad trying to teach me a lesson about the way life works.
posted by Mittenz at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Syria is Iran's route to the sea?
posted by Flashman at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012


Yeah, Mitt, the whole humanitarian aspect kind of fails to launch when you spend thirty seconds on that aspect and a whole minute on how to take advantage of the opportunity to reshape the region to our liking.
posted by winna at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012


Syria is Iran's route to the sea? I thought Iran had sea ports. ?:(

Eponysterical.
posted by Aizkolari at 6:18 PM on October 22, 2012


No. Syria isn't an opportunity for us. Those people dying aren't somehow our trump card to Iran.

...wait how are we doing this without military involvement? The hell? This isn't D&D, you can't just roll for extra arms that magically only work with Special USA-Approved Allies.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


> Mitt's pin is all big and pointy. It's distracting.

Why do you hate America?
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The White Council, sponsored by Mitt Romney.
posted by ersatz at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, come on.
posted by barnacles at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney is just rotely repeating the neocon hard line on Syria. He doesn't have a clue.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012


It's weird to agree with what Romney is saying.
posted by zardoz at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012


MITT - IT'S NOT AN ANSWER IF YOU SAY THE SAME THING OBAMA JUST DID.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Whomever has "Israel" in the drinking game better have a potty close by.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


We don't want arms in the wrong hands.
posted by migurski at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Is Romney repeating exactly what Obama just said?
posted by blurker at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


So what I'm hearing from Romney on Syria is just repetition of what Obama said.
posted by wierdo at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012


Is Romney suggesting we assemble a Justice League in Syria or something? He's kind of rambling.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney totally crammed for this oral exam, and is making sure to point out Facts He Knows About Syria: Iran's only ally, route to the sea, etc.
posted by Superplin at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Yes, let's prop up a government of our choice, and arm them, making sure the bad guys over there don't get the arms. That's worked out so well in the past.
posted by headnsouth at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Foreign policy debate categories from Schieffer:
* America’s role in the world
* Our longest war – Afghanistan and Pakistan
* Red Lines – Israel and Iran
* The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism – I
* The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism – II
* The Rise of China and Tomorrow’s World


It's like most of the world doesn't even exist (what about the Americas? Africa? South Asia? Oceania?).
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


His tie has stripes. They're vertical, but there's stripes there

I just see dark dots. But it's not some huge banded Jos. a Bank thing.
posted by The Whelk at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney just repeated Obama's line. HE'S COPYING!
posted by zardoz at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2012


Oops. Sorry, LT. How ironic! ;)
posted by blurker at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The RomneyBot has adapted since the last debate. He's maintaining his composure and hoping to make Obama appear combative in comparison.
posted by homunculus at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


how did he just confuse assad with kofi annan.
posted by elizardbits at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Am I the only one who thinks Romney sounds like a high-school essay?
posted by ersatz at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Flashman: "Syria is Iran's route to the sea?"

yeah i had to look that up on google maps.

still doesn't make any sense.
posted by rebent at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney is kind of less-coherently repeating what Obama says. I actually think that will help him, as long as he looks and sounds good doing it, which to about half of the electorate, I'm sure he does.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


How do you call the bloodshed in Syria a human disaster and then call Syria an "opportunity for America" in the next sentence?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I know the point of a debate is to debate each other, but going on the attack early made Obama look weak. The nerves are telling a bit; he's talking at rather than talking to. His pitch and pace are both a notch too high.

Deep breath, Mr President, and lay it out for us, not for him. We're all counting on you.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney just repeated Obama's line. HE'S COPYING!

Its a tried and true tactic sadly with Mitt
posted by lampshade at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


SAY NATO SAY IT
posted by bq at 6:21 PM on October 22, 2012


Romn-E is in copy/write mode right now.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


The exports of Libya are numerous in amount. One thing they export is corn, or as the Indians call it, "maize". Another famous Indian was "Crazy Horse". In conclusion, Libya is a land of contrast. Thank you.
posted by ninjew at 6:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [52 favorites]


The RomneyBot has adapted since the last debate. He's maintaining his composure and hoping to make Obama appear combative in comparison.

Yes, but can he last the whole 90 minutes?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:21 PM on October 22, 2012


This is going to be a weird debate because, as the Syria and Libya responses illustrate, there really isn't anything Romney would do that's all that different from what Obama did do.
posted by Flashman at 6:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


WAIT THAT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE IF WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
posted by The Whelk at 6:21 PM on October 22, 2012


Woo! Banana republic in Syria!
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012


I see horizontal tiny stripes with tiny stars.
posted by bq at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney's Stare = HE HATES OBAMA !!!
posted by ericb at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012


Is Romney repeating exactly what Obama just said?

Yes. This is why Romney's going to be considered the "victor" in this debate. All he really has to do is agree more-or-less with Obama and he looks "Presidential" and Obama looks "aggressive" when he attacks Romney.
posted by dirigibleman at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Shorter Romney: I have no idea what I would do differently than Obama in Syria.
posted by humanfont at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012


6-0 Giants
posted by mudpuppie at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Isn't this getting into ...classified territory?
posted by obscurator at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012


Man, if I lived in the Middle East this debate would be freaking me the fuck out.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [16 favorites]


Not using American military involvement

So....by MAGIC.
posted by maryr at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


And oh, man the baseball game's on the verge of a bloodbath.
posted by dirigibleman at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012


"Governor, it sounds like you're just parroting what the President said. Can you say something original instead?"
posted by Diagonalize at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


We're gonna arm some people? What could possibly go wrong?
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012


Wait so if the military aren't involved in Syria at all, but Assad is going bye bye, are you just....dropping in weapons? From...not planes? Dirigibles maybe? Is he just suggesting assassination? Do we have Secret Definitely Not SEAL Ninjas?
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


So Romaney doesn't want to do any government action, he just wants to sell them things.

Mitt Romney is Obedahia Shane!
posted by The Whelk at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


surpassing the fact that Mitt's penis is hanging out of his fly.


And that he walked out on stage with toilet paper dragging from his shoe....that was weird
posted by lampshade at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012


Yes, but if they both agree, Romney wins because he looks presidential, that's not a good thing.
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wow the Giants are killing it.
posted by Dr. Send at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2012


elizardbits: "how did he just confuse assad with kofi annan"

They both have moustaches.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


OBAMA BUILT THIS FOREIGN POLICY IN A CAVE

WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS
posted by elizardbits at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


Romney has dry mouth?
posted by bq at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney is kinda dumb and is totally parroting Obama.
posted by snsranch at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Uh yeah Mitt we're kind of already doing that."
posted by jason_steakums at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wow, Obama called him on the repeat loop.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2012


Yes, but who will stop the bloodletting on the part of the Cardinals?!
posted by limeonaire at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Obama just called Romney out on his lack of differentiation with the administration's existing policy in the middle east.
posted by wierdo at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2012


Arm the Syrians. Check. That go-to plan has always worked so well. Especially after he JUST FUCKING SAID that Syria is Iran's biggest ally.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2012


Oooh nice rhetorical improv there
posted by The Whelk at 6:23 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt's smirk makes me want to kick him in the teeth.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 6:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney bot is.... sad?
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:24 PM on October 22, 2012


America Stands For Democracy!
posted by ericb at 6:24 PM on October 22, 2012


In what alternate universe does Romney look presidential? He looks like a televangelist to me.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [23 favorites]


Mitt's totally gonna ralph.
posted by obscurator at 6:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The Cardinals of St. Louis are JUST ANOTHER PUBLICLY-FINANCED BIRD ROMNEY WOULD DISPENSE WITH! VOTE NOVEMBER 6TH!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


ok can someone pause it for a sec i have to pee
posted by elizardbits at 6:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Uh, Obama, I'm not sure jobs is where you want to go here...
posted by maryr at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012


America sometimes sits for Democracy, too, but that's okay. America is over 200 years old.
posted by barnacles at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


In what alternate universe does Romney look presidential? He looks like a televangelist to me.

He's white.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


6-0 Giants

10-0 Bears
posted by cashman at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Whenever Romney is talking, Obama looks like he is listening intently and eager to engage. When the President is talking, Romney looks like he is smelling farts.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


It's got to be so weird to be in a country that other countries talk about like this.

US privilege check.
posted by The Whelk at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Televangelists have more gravitas.
posted by winna at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yes, but who will stop the bloodletting on the part of the Cardinals?!

Isn't this pretty much where Washington had them?
posted by never used baby shoes at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


elizardbits I got some bad news for you
posted by barnacles at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012


He looks like a televangelist to me.

QFT
posted by wabbittwax at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


NBC cut off Romney's side of the screen for a moment there...
posted by JoeXIII007 at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012


In what alternate universe does Romney look presidential? He looks like a televangelist to me.,

Well he's white, for one. That's totally worth bonus points, unfortunately.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012


ok can someone pause it for a sec i have to pee

you forgot your debate bucket?
posted by ninjew at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


They're dots.
posted by jontyjago at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2012


"I'll be quick." Ha!
posted by Bokmakierie at 6:26 PM on October 22, 2012


PANIC MITT MODE PANIC EYES DARTING AND TWITCHING
posted by The Whelk at 6:26 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt Romney: "Man, wouldn't it be great if we could predict the future?"
posted by jason_steakums at 6:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


You keep using the word "friend," Governor. I do not think that word means what you think it means.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Freedomvoices! That's actually a neat compound noun. Imma roll that one into conversation today.
posted by barnacles at 6:26 PM on October 22, 2012


The Cardinals of St. Louis are JUST ANOTHER PUBLICLY-FINANCED BIRD ROMNEY WOULD DISPENSE WITH! VOTE NOVEMBER 6TH!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:24 PM on October 22 [+] [!]

ROMNEY YOU LEAVE FREDBIRD ALONE!
posted by gc at 6:26 PM on October 22, 2012


Hey man, is that Freedom Voices? Turn it up!
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


"I like how we handled Egypt, I just wish the POTUS were a wizard who could stare into the future and plan accordingly."
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Shit, shit, shit, peace, peace is safe to talk about right? People like peace!
posted by Diagonalize at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012


oh my god i can just bring my ipad into the bathroom with me
posted by elizardbits at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [15 favorites]


Mitt talks in a lot of 20/20 hindsight. But I guess that comes with the territory when the debate is about what happened when one was not even the candidate yet.

Still weird.
posted by lampshade at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012


These freedom voices, these binder women, these American states under Romn-E.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012


A lot of agreement going on so far. This debate should've been half foreign policy and MORE DOMESTIC POLICY. It's badly needed.
posted by zardoz at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012


Peaceful Planet. Brought to you by Haliburton.
posted by Dr. Send at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


OH OH, ECONOMY and STRONG, drink twice!
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012


THERE'S THE ECONOMY SEGUE!!
posted by triggerfinger at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


He looks like a televangelist to me.

Used car salesman. Or, worse, a manager of used car salesmen.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Here comes Mitt's strength thing.
posted by cashman at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012


He wishes that we had a better vision OF the future?! I think we all wish that, Romney. It would give me great peace of mind to know the outcome of this election already.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obama should point out "You're afraid of what Ahmadinejad says? Weener."
posted by barnacles at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


HEY EVERYONE WE'RE ALL GOING TO THE BATHROOM WITH ELIZARDBITS NOW
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [14 favorites]


Mitt, when you're backstepping into Domestic Economy in a Foreign Policy debate we can all smell the desperation.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh, terrific soldiers.
posted by maryr at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012


ok....here comes the stump speech stuff....mitt is floundering
posted by lampshade at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012


Mubarak "crushed" people. *holds fingers up to eye... "I'm crushing your head! I crush your head!"
posted by mudpuppie at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


The PRESIDENT is PRESIDENTIAL tonight (as always).

Fuck you, opportunist, hollow, flip -flopper Mitt Romney. Blah, blah, blah.
posted by ericb at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2012


But that means I have to remove my catheter ..... :(
posted by barnacles at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012


Peace != moar killing, Romneybot.
posted by limeonaire at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012


Is Romney's face bright red on every channel or just MSNBC?
posted by octothorpe at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Is he free associating?
posted by bq at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt does a huge right turn into the economy. I've done this in exams before - it does not go well, even as a joke.
posted by winna at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


FORTY-TWO ALLIES!
posted by maryr at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


dude mantles of peace are so 1945

also, are you seriously taking Ahmadinejad at his taunts? because he really just wants your lunch plutonium
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt Word Salad Romney
posted by The Whelk at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney quotes Ahmadinejad to claim the debt is some sort of national security issue.
posted by wierdo at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


42 ALLIES
posted by Flashman at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012


GUYS, WE HAVE 42 FRIENDS!
posted by Diagonalize at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney, if you're going to listen to Ahmadinejad on what makes America great, I don't know what to tell you.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Word salad for America!
posted by aspo at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012


OK, Romney said "42" first....does he, WIN?!?!
posted by obscurator at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012


The Schieff's not doing so bad here.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012


All that technology and intelligence got us bogged down in two land wars in the Middle East. Time to reevaluate, Romney.
posted by lineofsight at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012


Forty-two allies! That's the entire Risk board.
posted by oulipian at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


*peeks in elizardbits medicine cabinet*
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


The rest of the answer to the ultimate question "allies". "42 allies". And bonus: they are around the world.
posted by meinvt at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012


We have to stand by our principles. What are our principles? check back with me next week.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012


You already have the strongest military Mitt, stronger than all the rest combined. And America's influence got done by a certain man called W.
posted by ersatz at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Out military's second to none in the world." Our military is second to -13 in the world.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


HAY GUYS IM PEEIN
posted by elizardbits at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [16 favorites]


Did he really just say he wish we recognized there was a growing energy and passion for freedom in that part of the world. Are there parts of the world where people DON'T yearn for freedom? As far as I can tell only Republicans yearn for slavery.
posted by any major dude at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Let's play "What's our Role."
I think we should be pirates.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]




Damn you whelk
posted by aspo at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012


America has more Facebook Friends than any other country on this earth.
posted by maryr at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Shit. Not this running out the clock again and endless bs from Romney.
posted by Skygazer at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012


This isn't a goddamned debate, it's Dueling-Banjos speechifying.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Y need to clean your bathroom elizardbits
posted by The Whelk at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012


maryr: "Oh, terrific soldiers."

for our economy strongest in the world sequestration great soldiers don't deserve budget cuts.
posted by boo_radley at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


OH OH, ECONOMY and STRONG, drink twice!

If you're drinking on those, I hope you have "9-1-" already dialed and some nice person to push that last "1" for you.
posted by gladly at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Millions of eyes rolling
posted by Flashman at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012


Is Romney's face bright red on every channel or just MSNBC?

CSPAN too.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012


Ugh paternalistic leading the world shit yeah this has always worked out well.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012


GUYS, WE HAVE 42 FRIENDS!

YOU FORGOT POLAND
posted by mudpuppie at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Way to steer your argument into a tree Mitt
posted by The Whelk at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


'Bama has to hit him back on the economy.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012


We want things to be GOOD
posted by jinjo at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney- promoting peace throughout the world by "arming people".
posted by PorcineWithMe at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Romney keeps "pivoting" this back to domestic issues. Dude no.
posted by hellojed at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012


The Whelk: PANIC MITT MODE PANIC EYES DARTING AND TWITCHING

That was Mitt activating economy.exe.

See what I did there?
DOS is a 1980s operating system.
Okay, that was a bit of a reach.

posted by Kattullus at 6:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Are we just sedating the world with Peace Doritos or something? I don't get how we're supposed to spread peace around or why anyone would welcome it, frankly.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012


SHUT UP SHUT UP
posted by bq at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012


My conservative buddies are declaring on Facebook that they are going to bed.
posted by humanfont at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Talking about the economy seems to be the last refuge of this scoundrel.
posted by Danf at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012


PHEW

He didn't forget about Poland.
posted by barnacles at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney is visibly sweating. As a somewhat sweat-more-than-average person, I want to feel bad for him. But I really don't at all. Melt Mittens, melt.
posted by raztaj at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


BOILERPLATE
posted by zardoz at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012


I think in the last 5 minutes he's said scrunf 15 or 20 times.
posted by cashman at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


GUYS, THE MILLITARY BUDGET, WILL NOT CUT IT, AT ANY MOMENT THE IMPERAL JAPANESE NAVY MIGHT APPEAR TO SURROUND US ON ALL SIDES
posted by The Whelk at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


uh oh he's stuck on the economy subroutine, reboot him while Obama is talking
posted by ninjew at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney: Ditto, but in a patronizing, disagreeable way.
posted by shakespeherian at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


He remembered Poland.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012


America's role in the world is the Ninja from the ICP Live Tour.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012


KEEP YOUR BLOODY MISSILES FROM EUROPE, MITT
posted by ersatz at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012


is this the Charlie Brown teacher segment?
posted by lampshade at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012


HAY GUYS IM PEEIN

Looks like elizardbits is playing the drinking game by my rules, godspeed you!
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Finally, someone coached Obama on how to act when Mitt speaks. He's watching calmly. No emotion. Just watching.
posted by zarq at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Strengthen our military? Yeah, they're so hurting for money.
posted by zardoz at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama just looked at Bob like "did you hear what this mf just said?"
posted by cashman at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012


"We don't know what the world is going to throw at us." We can take a good guess: climate change, massive unrest of the impoverished, the twilight of American empire.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


My conservative buddies are declaring on Facebook that they are going to bed.

They're confident going to bed, or bored going to bed?
posted by winna at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012


What Bob's thinking
posted by hellojed at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


NEVAR FORGET POLAND!

Seriously, I can't. It's my name and everything.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012


9/11!!

*DRINK*
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I got forty-two allies but a Mitt ain't one.
posted by Flunkie at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


And come to speak of it, America is not one indispensable nation, Obama.
posted by ersatz at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Next question: what is the meaning of life?
Also, do you guys like America?

Can these questions be any more vague? Might as well just give each of them 30 min to speak thir platforms
posted by rmless at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012


"One nation, indispensible..."
posted by asperity at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012


DAMMIT, APPARENTLY WE HAVE TO STAND UP FOR A LONG FUCKING TIME. :(
posted by mudpuppie at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012


As an American, and an American living abroad, I wouldn't mind if America wasn't the "one indispensable nation." Maybe it's time for the US to chill out, take a vacation, maybe manage its garden and paint the walls, 'cos the place is starting to look a little run-down.
posted by barnacles at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


OH SO SOUTH AMERICA IS JUST LEFT OUT THERE FINE WELL TAKE OUR LIME DRINKS AND GUINEA PIGS ELSEWARE
posted by The Whelk at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Fuck it, let's just make this a domestic debate.
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


also did Romney call out lower birth rates as some sort of world catastrophe?
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:32 PM on October 22, 2012


I feel Obama's eyes are looking past Romney during those long, calm pauses.
posted by jermspeaks at 6:32 PM on October 22, 2012


But I don't want a job commensurate with my college degree!

/philosophy major
posted by scatter gather at 6:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


" fine, you want to steamroll this into a domestic debate! Fine, there's all the things I burned you with before, you're welcome"
posted by The Whelk at 6:32 PM on October 22, 2012


COME ON THEY HAVE LIQUID CHEESE DISPENSERS IN AMERICA MAN
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:32 PM on October 22, 2012


The President finally sounds Presidential.
posted by zarq at 6:32 PM on October 22, 2012


I am pretty sure I heard Obama snickering.
posted by elizardbits at 6:32 PM on October 22, 2012


lookit dat adams apple, wow.
posted by boo_radley at 6:32 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney went from Poland to Iran faster than Carmen Sandiego.
posted by maryr at 6:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [23 favorites]


Bush Cheney Zing
posted by Rumple at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I am just saying, "education for ladies" and "gender equality" tend to go with "fewer kids" so maybe re-think your talking points.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I thought Obama just said "Asking the lumpiest to pay a little bit more" and I'm not even drinkin.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


I love how Obama has adopted the motto of Tesco for his tax plan. Every little (bit) helps.
posted by ersatz at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


THEN WHY DON'T YU TELL US WHAT THAT IS?!
posted by The Whelk at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I know what it takes, guys. I know.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney's laugh when saying "agenda of the future" is terrifying.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Come on Obama hit him on his 12 million job bull shit.
posted by humanfont at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney will get America working again? I could have SWORN he said in the last debate that Government doesn't create jobs. Curious.
posted by barnacles at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Sweet, 5-step plan!
posted by King Bee at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


C'mon c'mon c'mon call him on the 12 million jobs FINALLY. Now's the time!
posted by jason_steakums at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Five steps! Drink!
posted by benito.strauss at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


Ooh, 'Romney laughed robotically'.
posted by bq at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


INTERRUPT HIM OBAMA!! INTERRUPT HIM!! TELL HIM HE IS A LYING PIECE OF DUNG!!
posted by Skygazer at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


I know what it takesssssss
posted by rmless at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


Ooooh, Dick Cheney reference. Better not say his name twice more.
posted by Flunkie at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


FIVE SIMPLE STEPS DOWN THE BOTTLE
posted by The Whelk at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I guess they got bored with foreign policy and decided to just go full-bore talking points.
posted by winna at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


Five simple steps! Everyone chug!!
posted by Dr. Send at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I've got a policy for the future. I'll give you the details ... in the future.
posted by headnsouth at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


NO NOT THE FIVE SIMPLE STEPS - THE ONES SO SIMPLE THEY HAVE NO FACTS IN THEM! AAAAAAAAAAAAIEEEEEEEEEEE!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


HE KNOWS WHAT IT TAKES
posted by mudpuppie at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


FIVE SIMPLE STEPS!
posted by octothorpe at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


I KNOW WHAT IT TAKES

lol forever
posted by ninjew at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I know how to create 12 million new jobs, but you don't because I'm not telling you nyah nyah!
posted by ersatz at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


STOP WITH THE FIVE STEPS SHIT, EVERYONE KNOWS IT'S A CROCK
posted by triggerfinger at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


AND THE FINAL STEP IN MY PLAN IS "PROFIT"
posted by elizardbits at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


oh...here it is..the 5 step myth. Can't wait for this rebuttal.
posted by lampshade at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


So much for the foreign policy debate.
posted by dirigibleman at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012


I didn't realize tonight's episode was a repeat. Feh.
posted by Superplin at 6:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Just for you Mitens, I'll just leave this here:

First come smiles, then comes lies. Last is gunfire.
-- Roland Deschain
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


"Heh, heh, heh, I have a policy for the future."
posted by nobody at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


Man, remember the Monroe Doctrine? Wasn't that great?
posted by maryr at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Latin America, y'all!
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


Latin....America.
posted by obscurator at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


Guys I'm already out of Chimay
posted by shakespeherian at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Shit, there's the China reference. I only have two beers to drink tonight, people!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


This morphed so slowly into a domestic debate I didn't even notice it.

This moderator is fucking terrible.
posted by barnacles at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Hey let's just increase our trade. . .it's THAT simple!
posted by Danf at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney's laugh when saying "agenda of the future" is terrifying.

It's the little, pinched laugh of a little-minded man with a pinched heart.
posted by mynameisluka at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


put the teachers first by getting rid of the teachers union?
posted by rebent at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


Fuck the teachers.... yep....
posted by HuronBob at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


STUPID TEACHERS UNIONS!
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


STOP REPEATING THE FUCKING FIVE STEP PLAN

JETLAGADDICT SMASH YOUR TALKING POINTS

SO BORING THIS IS SO BORING

wait when did we get to Latin America? Latin America is....is not a country? It is not a discrete entity wait why are we on unions?

Mittlash. I think I have Mittlash.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


oh god the steps, always with the steps
posted by scatter gather at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


"Teacher's union has got to go" uh no
posted by hellojed at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


OH SO SOUTH AMERICA IS JUST LEFT OUT THERE FINE WELL TAKE OUR LIME DRINKS AND GUINEA PIGS ELSEWARE

You'll be glad to know that Mitt is eager to embrace the varied languages and time zones of our southern neighbors.
posted by winna at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


What a load of lies.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney keeps repeating the same debunked statements. It's obnoxious. And how can anyone who knows the first thing of his history can buy into the idea that he knows how to create jobs?
posted by JHarris at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


Is this the "GRAB BAG SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT" question? I feel like I'm watching the last two debates on fast forward.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Also apparently Romney doesn't know that South America is huge and has a ton of left-wing governments.
posted by ersatz at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


They speak LATIN in Latin America. Am I right?
posted by ericb at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


It's almost a given that jobs will be created and wages will rise, no matter what. Romney is a confidence man.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


YOU WOULDN'T KNOW A SMALL BUSINESS IF IT BIT YOU ON THE ASS MITTENS
posted by elizardbits at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Trade doubles every five or so years...And this is sustainable how?
posted by limeonaire at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Okay , as long as we're back on domestic policy, how about we address LGBT rights?
posted by triggerfinger at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


STOP SHITTING ON GREECE
posted by shakespeherian at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


What the fuck do you know about small business, Mitt?
posted by maryr at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


Is wondering if it's just me, or if nobody else understands what the hell Romney is talking about, either.
posted by wintermind at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


If trade grows by 12% a year, how can it double every five years? I'm bad at math, but I think I'm better than Romney?
posted by mudpuppie at 6:34 PM on October 22, 2012


The road to Grease could be a tumult
posted by quietalittlewild at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Dat steps
posted by jinjo at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012


Gimmee some of them TIME ZONE OPPORTUNITIES.
posted by Kinbote at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I know what we need. I DO, I DO, I SWEAR.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012


Did we get number five twice?
posted by blurker at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012


Guys, do you think mitt likes small business? I can't tell
posted by rmless at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012


And number 6 we all need to believe and tinker bell will come back to life
posted by aspo at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Really, investors think we're on the road to Greece, Romney? Short term real treasury rates are still negative.
posted by wierdo at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012


The moderator should ask why America is third in the world in liking America. We lag behind Japan in liking America, are we just going to let Japan like us more than we do? What will they do about the liking America gap.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


5 Points - drink

But WTF happened to Foreign Policy?
posted by Rumple at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012


OH BACK TO SMALL BUSINESSES.

HEY ROMNEY IF I INCORPORATE MY BUTT WILL YOU CALL ME A JOB CREATOR WHENEVER I TAKE A SHIT
posted by hellojed at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


9 million jobs? Fun with numbers.
posted by zardoz at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama finally called Mitt out on his 'small business' promotions. *swoon*
posted by carsonb at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012


Time zone, language opportunities....Hooo boy! Did anyone have time zones on their bingo card? I want to hear more about these time zone opportunities. Could they help out a lady trying to pee during a debate?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012


Time for this debate's joke from my FB friend :

"For my conservative friends who tell me that Mitt Romney is a master debater, I ask you this - is that even allowed in the Mormon Church?"
posted by HopperFan at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney is worried about declining white birth rates for obvious GOP reasons. They need to make more angry old white dudes stat.
posted by emjaybee at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also, what are "language opportunities"?
posted by limeonaire at 6:35 PM on October 22, 2012


"Latin America's economy"? I'm surprised he's saying China and not just EMEA.
posted by boo_radley at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012


If nothing else alka seltzer profits are going to soar tomorrow
posted by The Whelk at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012


They speak LATIN in Latin America. Am I right?

A GOOD moderator would be all, 'Time out. Name four languages spoken in Latin America... Go!'
posted by winna at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Education, yay!
posted by zardoz at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012


Talk about math teachers! That's me!!!!!
posted by King Bee at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Five Simple Steps", the heatseeking new single from Mitt Romney and the Bain Capitals.....
posted by theartandsound at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Strengthen our military? Yeah, they're so hurting for money.

Well, yes. But I suspect that's not where Mitt would put the money.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"if you talk to teachers"...

My math teacher wife is approving of, guess who.....
posted by HuronBob at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


okay I mean I <3 teachers but I must have missed the part where the teacher's unions joined the UN and became the recognized foreign policy issue that homework really is
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"The Road to Greece" is a little known Crosby/Hope film from 1942 in which the two heroes have a zany, madcap adventure on their way to souvlaki and doom.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]


Is there some sort of mic problem that whenever Obama says the letter S, he sounds like the groundhog from Whinnie The Pooh? "Small Businesses" sounds like "tweet tweetnetweettweet"
posted by not_on_display at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012


Fuck Romney if he wants the final word each time...
posted by Skygazer at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Talk to teachers. As if Romney would be caught dead talking to a teacher, they are the rabble.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt is going to go right for his "class sizes" talk, where he talks about kids in Mass. Yall ready?
posted by cashman at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney just had a good point, about how the U.S. should focus on trade with Latin America, because a lot of Americans speak Spanish, and a lot of Latin America speaks Spanish, and there's a time zone overlap, so their business day overlaps with ours, and he blew it by trying to cram it into five words.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


> Guys I'm already out of Chimay.

Finally, an international crisis we can all agree on a solution to.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Mitt is proud of US!
posted by maryr at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012


BOB SUCKS.
posted by cashman at 6:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


NO SHUT UP AND GET BACK TO FOREIGN POLICY

MODERATOR YOU ARE THE WORST
posted by elizardbits at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]


OH POINT TO THE MODERATOR

oh no wait Romney's talking again about Romney and the state that's disowned him

no points for you
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


After TWENTY MINUTES Bob wakes up and remembers that this is a foreign policy debate.
posted by winna at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


LET ME TALK I NEED THIS I HAVE A THING TO TALK ABOUT EDUCATIOON TALKING REMEMBERING WHAT'S THE QUESTION
posted by The Whelk at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


That's what spilled water does to a circuit board.
posted by obscurator at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


WHERE'S MY COMPETENT WOMAN MODERATOR!!!!!
posted by benito.strauss at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [19 favorites]


"I make 4th Graders NUMBER ONE."
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


But WTF happened to Foreign Policy?

Everything must be seen through the lens of America.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


Mod is bad.
posted by shortfuse at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


What is WITH Romney's bedroom-eyes while Obama is talking?
posted by Theta States at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Moderator: "CAN I BRING THIS DEBATE BACK ON TOPIC THIS IS STUPID"
Romney: "No, I want to talk about domestic policy."
Moderator: "oh okay that's fine i'll just go under the table now if that's okay"

Me: "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"
posted by barnacles at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


And now... back to foreign policy... not.
posted by jermspeaks at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Bob might as well just roll over and die for all he is moderating
posted by rmless at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


For shame, Bob. I am so sick of the laying down and letting Romney steamroll each and every "conversation."
posted by mynameisluka at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


MITTERUPTION TIME
posted by boo_radley at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Bob Shieffer just sounded like he was SNARLING on that "Can I just get back to foreign policy here?....."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


"I'm so proud of the state that I was governor of" Unfortunately they are not so proud of you.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


> After TWENTY MINUTES Bob wakes up and remembers that this is a foreign policy debate.

Then promptly goes back to sleep.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


Yay! Obama's schooling the governor on education policy! Boo! This is the foreign policy debate!

Yay! Mittens is talking about fourth-graders! Boo! They're ahead of him in school!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


Can he not pronounce Massachusetts maybe?
posted by Flashman at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Dammit guys, I think YouTube is lagging behind the live feed, so I feel like I'm reading this thread so fast I'm reading ahead into spoilers for something that's happening currently... but if I switch to the TV I am all alone!

GUYS
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Watching the CNN squiggle-line, men disapprove of strong statements from Obama, but women like them....
posted by Theta States at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


Class sizes make a difference in terms of carbon dioxide-induced oxygen deficits, yes; anyone else see that link?
posted by limeonaire at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


Please someone fire Mitt's advisors for NOT FUCKING TELLING HIM THAT NO ONE LIKES AN INTERRUPTER
posted by triggerfinger at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"But that was ten years before you took office and then you cut the budget".
posted by ersatz at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


"The state that I had the chance to be governor of" because I moved there so I could be governor.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


I'm going to be sick.
posted by Skygazer at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


After TWENTY MINUTES Bob wakes up and remembers that this is a foreign policy debate.

Schieffer really is kinda blowing it. sad
posted by lampshade at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


Also, what are "language opportunities"?

More people in the US speak Spanish than Chinese and its easier to learn.
posted by Jahaza at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012


Bob stop, he's babbling off topic, bob what are you doing stahp
posted by The Whelk at 6:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


ahahaha, go Bob..."we have heard this in other debates"
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012


Too bad Romney didn't take those awesome math classes.
posted by classa at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012


look at Obama he's totally making the "who is this clown even" face
posted by ninjew at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


COME ON OUR WEBSITE
posted by The Whelk at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012


"Republicans and Democrats came together"

George W. Bush said he was going to be uniter, not a divider. I can't imagine Romney would be any better than the horribly divisive Bush presidency was.
posted by jiawen at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012


More numbers from Romney. By which I mean lists - not facts.
posted by maryr at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012


Mod: How will you pay for it

Mitt: Let me talk instead about the military
posted by triggerfinger at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Does Romney get to speak 3 times in a row?
posted by aspo at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012


Shieffer: OK, we've heard this all before.
posted by octothorpe at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012


You can balance a budget by reducing spending? YOU DON'T SAY.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012


Seriously, how many times can he bring up the Massachusetts schools #1 thing? Even if it were relevant to anything, it's Massachusetts! If someone managed to do that with, say, Mississippi, I'd vote for him if he were Satan himself.
posted by asperity at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Oh the facts are hiding on the website!

DON'T WORRY OBAMACARE IS DONE GUYS

HAVE FUN DYING
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Ah yes, Bob. Visit my website, you'll learn just what I'm talking about!
posted by mynameisluka at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think Obama isn't so much trying to interrupt or bust him on facts but instead to hit Romney with stuff to shake him up.

I think it's working.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt is sweating.
posted by The Whelk at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012


"Come on over to my website."
posted by obscurator at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012


BOB

BOB

BOB

ROMNEY IS TALKING ABOUT BULLSHIT BOB

STOP HIM NOW
posted by King Bee at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [22 favorites]


Romney really hates THE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.A.
posted by ericb at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012


He'll balance the budget within 8-10 years?
posted by ceribus peribus at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012


Someone's blink sequence needs debugging.
posted by theredpen at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


How could I vote for someone to be President if that person doesn't respect the President... ?
posted by HuronBob at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012


FINALLY, he reveals a platform. He will cut 5% of the discretionary budget.
posted by Flashman at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012


"the POOR" I mean SO NEEDY, the POOR, they probably never even went to a state college in Massachusetts
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


He's so proud of his record in Massachusetts that he's not bothering to campaign there now because he knows there's no point.
posted by homunculus at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I love Obama's smile. It's so much more charming than the face Mitt makes when he hears something he doesn't like.
posted by blurker at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


SHUT UP MITTENS
posted by elizardbits at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012


WHAT DID HE JUST SAY TURN OVER MEDICAID TO THE STATES????????? OH MY GOD. SATAN SATAN SATAN SATAN SATAN...
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012


I don't want to hear anymore about how Romney looks Presidential. No way that kind of interrupting and talking over people doesn't cause an international incident.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


THE POOR!
posted by octothorpe at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitts eyes seem to be watering up....or is that just my tv?
posted by lampshade at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012


Bob?

BOB!
posted by The Whelk at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh, Romney, Rhode Island got more money with their wacko waiver, not less.
posted by wierdo at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


'States run these programs (Medicaid) more efficiently.'

With fat subsidies from the federal government.
posted by winna at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Romney is trying to sell that used car again.
posted by ersatz at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Bob

Bob

Bob

Bob
posted by shakespeherian at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


yes lets cut things because the economy isn't strong so lets not help it
posted by ninjew at 6:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romn-E firmware upgrade 8 apparently included a new "Yay Medicare" feature.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Factoid:

Mitt Romney's net worth (250 million) is slightly more than Jamie Oliver's (235 million).

Surprised?
posted by cacofonie at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Block grant for Medicaid. Jesus Christ.
posted by Talez at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012


Damn it -- and now we're back to the first two debates...
posted by blurker at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012


ALSO

MOTION TO ENABLE THE IMAGE TAG FOR ELECTION DAY
posted by elizardbits at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


"Come on to our website"
"Oh. Ok."
posted by iamkimiam at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


caps lock isn't how Bob feels inside
posted by ninjew at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


"he should've answered the first question"

The audience had a quickening.
posted by The Whelk at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt Romney is sooooo stoned right now.
posted by not_on_display at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012


No, Obama don't go into boring math now :( Keep with the rhetorical flourish math, please!

No not trillio...zzzzzzZZZZzzZZzzz
posted by barnacles at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The puuoor. WE ARE ALL PUUOOR COMPARED TO THIS GUY!
posted by theredpen at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


The expression on Mitt's face is the one I wear when my cat farts.
posted by droomoord at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


"We spend more than the next 10 countries combined" Thank you.
posted by cashman at 6:40 PM on October 22, 2012


MOTION TO ENABLE THE IMAGE TAG FOR ELECTION DAY

help i can only favorite this once why
posted by ninjew at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Mitt seems to be getting a little steamed.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012


SPACE
posted by ersatz at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I successfully came onto their website.

Now I'll just brb gotta get something to clean my screen
posted by barnacles at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


HEY BOB COME ON MY WEBSITE AND MAYBE I'LL TELL YOU HOW MY TAX PLAN WORKS
IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE HAVING A FUCKING PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE RIGHT NOW
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


SPACE!
posted by giraffe at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012


WE ALL NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT SPACE
posted by The Whelk at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Bob

Bob

Bob

Bob


CAPS LOCK IS HOW I FEEL INSIDE.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


MOTION TO ENABLE THE IMAGE TAG FOR ELECTION DAY

Denied. Carry on.
posted by jessamyn at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [39 favorites]


Do you think mitt's lips are allergic to debates? They always seem to go away when they start
posted by rmless at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012


Every time I look at the knobby dial-y thing on CNN, it's good for Obama and not so good for Romney.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


According to the CNN feed, undecided women heart Barack Basicmathematicsama.
posted by mynameisluka at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I've been so busy working I haven't had a chance to start drinking or follow the debates.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012


We need to be thinking about space, and expelling people like Romney into it.
posted by obscurator at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt has a "I don't know what the hell this guy is talking about" look.
posted by HuronBob at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012


jessamyn!! FINALLY A STRONG MODERATOR
posted by barnacles at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [56 favorites]


SHUT UP ABOUT THE OLYMPICS YOU DICKWAFFLE
posted by elizardbits at 6:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


MOTION TO ENABLE THE IMAGE TAG FOR ELECTION DAY


That is such a wonderful, terrible idea. It's terrific.
posted by maryr at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


EXACTLY! More money is not the answer -- spending on the right things is the right answer!
posted by blurker at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


yep and then Bain sold them to China, so I guess that's going to be rough on Mississippi
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012


oh no not the olympics...
posted by dhruva at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012


Cyberspace! Space space! yes I'm mocking Obama. He's dreamy and all, but.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


The words "balance the budget" have lost all meaning.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012


Next up: Mitt balances the universe on the head of a pin.
posted by Dr. Send at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


"I had a chance to be governor of state..." Maybe that read as "I had a chance to be governor of [STATE]" on his script?
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney, you balanced budgets at Bain by taking government subsidies. You balanced the Olympics budget by taking government subsidies.
posted by wierdo at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy wrote upthread
Obama has that intense labrador-retriever-waiting-for-the-stick-to-be-thrown look.
So true
posted by dougzilla at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012


In the world of business, you don't balance your budget, you go out of business. And then Bain Capital buys it and profits.

No wonder he thinks he can do this.
posted by maryr at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


sheesh.....mitt is just harping on the military angle....he just can't get off that point.
posted by lampshade at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012


The guy whose job it was to get debt to struggling companies is talking about how businesses need to have balanced budgets at all times?
posted by Ndwright at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Who sank Mitt's battleship?
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012


I thought this was a furrin policy debate.
posted by SillyShepherd at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt looks like he's about to cry.

Just keep saying balance, over and over.

WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE NAVY I WAS NOT AWARE OF THE GREAT ATLANTEIAN THREAT
posted by The Whelk at 6:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


How about fighting in no conflicts? Can we do that, please?
posted by giraffe at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

can someone please tattoo the GDP equation on these people who claim that they'll cut government.
posted by winna at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


I can't get the Youtube stream to catch up, every time I refresh it just gets a few more seconds behind.
posted by jinjo at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012


If only our ships and planes had improved technologically since 1917.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Our Navy today now has a BAJILLION TIMES MORE NUCLEAR ENGINES than 1916.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012


MITT THIS ISN'T JEOPARDY YOU DON'T CHOOSE TOPICS
posted by ninjew at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Wait. Wait. Did Romney just suggest two conflicts was a sign we were doing better?
posted by maryr at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Sequestration? Sea Quest Ration? Seacrest Ray Gun?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


The low 200s OH NOES
posted by zardoz at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt keeps reminding me of that scene from Office Space: "I'M A PEOPLE PERSON! I'M GOOD WITH PEOPLE!"
posted by Diagonalize at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


ALL GOVERNMENT SPENDING IS WRONG, EXCEPT MILITARY CAUSE OTHERWISE PEOPLE WILL STEAL OUR STUFF
posted by The Whelk at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


HORSES.
posted by giraffe at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


HAHAHAHAHAH!!!
posted by cashman at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012


PLANES LAND ON THEM
posted by jason_steakums at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


Hah! Bayonets! I'M BACK ON TEAM BARRY!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


FUCK EVERYBODY WE'RE DOING 5 CONFLICTS
posted by contraption at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Fewer horses, hee hee her
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012


HORSES AND BAYONETS!
posted by oulipian at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


"Well governor we have also fewer horses and bayonets."
posted by ersatz at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [17 favorites]


Obama, no you didn't!
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh SNAP
posted by bq at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012


Fewer horses and bayonets...lol
posted by sfts2 at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


HA! Horses and bayonets!!!
posted by lampshade at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012


Fewer horses and bayonets FTW!!!
posted by Superplin at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012


Ha bayonets! Slam!
posted by rmless at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012


HORSES AND BAYONETS
posted by mynameisluka at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012


UNMENTIONED: ROMNEY'S WEBSITE IS LEMONPARTY.ORG
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


MOAR BAYONETS!!!!
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


SHIPS THAT GO UNDERWATER
posted by jontyjago at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


horses and bayonets.
posted by exlotuseater at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


LOL Battleship.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


PLANES LAND ON THEM <3 <3 <3
posted by Kattullus at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


We also have fewer horses and bayonets BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Why do we need a military that's as strong as in 1917 or 1918 or whatever?
posted by limeonaire at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


ROMNEY: MORE HIRSES AND BAYONETTES AND FINE SUITS OF THE FINEST ARMOUR
posted by The Whelk at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh he is making Mitt look dumb.
posted by cashman at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Haha! We live in the future now, stupidpants. Do you want us to have lots of schooners and dreadnoughts, too?
posted by barnacles at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


Hey, Obama just used an Al Franken joke! Horses and bayonets, baby!
posted by blurker at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


OMG. " We have ships that go underwater. "

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Mitt is going to explode.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


"We have these things called aircraft carriers."
posted by Room 641-A at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


You sank Mitt's battleship!
posted by Flashman at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


What about the horses and bayonets?
posted by Aizkolari at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


OH SNAP OBAMA!
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


"We have these things called aircraft carriers, where planes land on them."
posted by reductiondesign at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


In the Navy, yes, you can sail the seven seas
In the Navy, yes, you can put your mind at ease
In the Navy, come on now people, make a stand
In the Navy, can't you see we need a hand
In the Navy, come on, protect the motherland
In the Navy, come on and join your fellow, man
In the Navy, come on, people, and make a stand
In the Navy, in the Navy
posted by mudpuppie at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I also went to the 2002 Olympics! Yay, that means I can balance the budget too!
posted by iamkimiam at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


VOTE REPUBLICAN

MORE BAYONETS
posted by Flunkie at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


oh god I wish this had props

though, sir, if you think you are winning the lady vote on this "no horses" plan, you, sir, are mistaken #teampony
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Fewer horses and bayonets! BURN.
posted by insectosaurus at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


BATTLESHIP
posted by headnsouth at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


SHIPS THAT GO UNDERWATER
posted by jinjo at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Lolololol- bayonets and horses
posted by askmehow at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


FEWER HORSES AND BAYONETS!
posted by ericb at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


OH SHIT HOLY SNAP WE DON'T HAVE CAVALRY!

I SWEAR HE STOLE THAT FROM MEFI!
posted by Theta States at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


"Horses and bayonets."
I'm sure the "Explain it to me like I'm a five year old" subreddit is fucking blazing right now.
posted by obscurator at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Is Obama watching a clock and then interrupting at precisely the two-minute mark to cut down Romney overrruns? I think that's clever. I can support tactical interruption.
posted by gladly at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


lol horses and bayonets SNAP 3: FOREVER
posted by ninjew at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


Smallest navy still?
posted by Garm at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


OHH SHIIIIT AHAHAHAHAHAHA
posted by Evernix at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Ha ha, he made it sound like Mitt thinks we still have bayonets. BAYONETS, MOTHERFUCKER!
posted by theredpen at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney / Aubrey 2012
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


MOTION TO ENABLE THE IMAGE TAG FOR ELECTION DAY

Denied. Carry on.


Wow. The bias
posted by triggerfinger at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Some play five-dimensional chess. Romney plays five-dimensional war.
posted by mynameisluka at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


Ooo, I think Obama just lost the Navy vote there.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


"We have these things called aircraft carriers, and planes land on them."
posted by Danf at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


SINKING HIS BATTLESHIP
posted by SomaSoda at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


OH GOD NOT ISRAEL

brb heroin times
posted by elizardbits at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Great last word for Obama there.
posted by Aizkolari at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


Fewer horses and bayonets!
posted by Otherwise at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney you just got laughed at son!
posted by cashman at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


I love, love, love that Obama defined submarine.
posted by asperity at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Obama gets points for referencing the hit feature film Battleship.
posted by shakespeherian at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Oh my fucking god. I am speechless at what Obama just did on the Navy.
posted by wierdo at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


We visited the website and it still doesn't work. (audience chuckles)
posted by Pudhoho at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


OH YEAH OH YEAH OH YEAH no more bayonets and horsies! GO OBAMA STICK 'EM. LOVED THAT.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Whoa the audience just broke their vow of silence!
posted by Dr. Send at 6:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


He just sunk Romney's battleship.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:45 PM on October 22, 2012


we visited the website hahahahha
posted by fungible at 6:45 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


BAMMMMMM!
posted by Senor Cardgage at 6:45 PM on October 22, 2012


Seriously who the fuck is that old fart with white hair?
posted by jontyjago at 6:45 PM on October 22, 2012


And now for the Israel couples skate.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:45 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]


FIX BAYONETS BEFORE THEY FIX YOU
posted by The White Hat at 6:45 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The disciplined audience is nevertheless unable to suppress its mirthful tittering.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:45 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


VOTE REPUBLICAN

WE WANT MORE OF THOSE FANCY SHIPS THAT TRAVEL UNDERWATER AND UM...UM...HORSES..THAT'S RIGHT HORSES!!


HA!
posted by Skygazer at 6:45 PM on October 22, 2012


We cannot afford a bayonet gap.
posted by 3200 at 6:45 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


USA + ISRAEL = BFFs 4 LYFE
posted by Diagonalize at 6:45 PM on October 22, 2012


Oo it's time for "who loves Israel?"
I hope they both try to pronounce things in hebrew
posted by rmless at 6:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


best way to watch debate
posted by elizardbits at 6:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [32 favorites]


This week? What a coincidence!
posted by homunculus at 6:46 PM on October 22, 2012


so I'm the only one who thought that was a touch condescending then? ok cool just checking
posted by likeatoaster at 6:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


We cannot afford a bayonet gap.

Or a horse gap....think of the dressagers!
posted by lampshade at 6:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


ROMNEY'S PLAN IS JUST A VEILED ATTEMPT TO HAVE MORE DANCING HORSES.
posted by The Whelk at 6:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


Oh please god someone tell me they have the full bayonettes quote.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 6:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I hate this "who has the biggest boner for Israel" contest.
posted by Aizkolari at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Romney is a premature actionator.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012


There's another 45 minutes of this.. I think I'm going to need a beer.
posted by goHermGO at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012


I am appalled at our minuscule buggy whip and musket budget. Lowest in American history.
posted by Superplin at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


And, a United States President...ME..

I see what you did there, sir.
posted by cashman at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm sure Rafalca would look quite fetching with his own bayonet.
posted by argonauta at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitts having a hard time smiling now. It looks uncomfortable.
posted by Liquidwolf at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


crying laughing sry
posted by ninjew at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


can someone please photoshop Romney as Napoleon on Fat Pony, leading dressage ponies to battle?

pretty please? I have so few pony requests but my god make it so
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]


Also Mitt's "When I'm president" is sad.
posted by goHermGO at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Romney is clearly shaken now.
posted by wierdo at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012


Harry Potter and the Threat of Iran
posted by giraffe at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Last resort. Not the first resort."

That's the phrase that won the presidency.
posted by deanklear at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


so I'm the only one who thought that was a touch condescending then?

Yeah, but sometimes it may be deserved
posted by edgeways at 6:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


WINE TIME.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


GOD NUMBER ONE NUMBER TWO BULLET POINTS WORK FOR POWERPOINT NOT IN DEBATES
posted by The Whelk at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


We have their back. Romney - gangsta 4 life.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Extra value is what you get, when you buy bayonets ♫
posted by theredpen at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"...they will have to face a united world, AND a United states president (me), who..."
posted by jinjo at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


I don't think these slams are gonna win over undecideds... When Biden explained the smaller military budget it sounded like he was an expert. Obama's sounding a bit cavalier...
posted by mdn at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


ROMNEY: B-7?

OBAMA: ALL UR BATTLESHIPS BELONG TO US.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]




PSA - just broke 1,100 comments for this thread
posted by lampshade at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


"our mission in Iran". Again, what weird phrasing.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


Correcting "if I'm President of the United States" to "when I'm President of the United States"? That's backwards, Mitt.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


He sure loves his numbered steps.
posted by aspo at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney: "If I am... When I am president of the United States..."

*SPOILER ALERT*
posted by Theta States at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Not just sanctions, mind. CRIPPLING SANCTIONS.
posted by jontyjago at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


But who will stand with Antarctica?
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


Wait ... now the GOP is keen on sanctions and doesn't want to just "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bom Iran"?? I can't keep up with their switcheroos.
posted by barnacles at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


WHEN I AM PRESIDENT
WHEN I AM PRESIDENT
WHEN I AM PRESIDENT

Maybe if he says it three times it will come to pass?
posted by mynameisluka at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


Everytime I see elizardbits name I think "EEEEE! Lizard Bits!"
posted by mysticreferee at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


Hang on, awhile ago, Mitt was mad 'cause we didn't do enough during the Green Revolution, now we need to tackle Iran with peace and diplomacy? I haz a confuse.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


If elected, I will copy whatever Obama says. But bettter!
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


If you elect me I will keep doing what he's doing.
posted by headnsouth at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


"If I'm president... When I'm president..."

Little presumptuous there, Mittens.
posted by Talez at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


Bah I can't stand listening to rehash politico yammer, just tell me who's winning.
posted by sammyo at 6:48 PM on October 22, 2012


Oil is fungible. Stopping it from entering your ports would matter not one whit.

Also: WHO is he inditing for genocide?
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm pretty sure "ships carrying Iranian oil" is like, the definition of "sanctions"

but then again a hour ago you didn't know Iran had "ports" soooo
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


"We need to handle this diplomatically, by treating their diplomats like shit."
posted by jason_steakums at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney basically said no more Chinese or South Korean imports, which is what would be required under his "tightened" sanctions on Iran.
posted by wierdo at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"I would do exactly what this failed president over here has done, except way more!"
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


The Genocide convention? Not very well attended this year. Surveys returned asked for better buffet.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


He hopes to shame Iran out of a nuclear weapon?
posted by ersatz at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012


Harry Potter and the Threat of Iran

YOU'RE A PANICKY ROBOT,ROMNEY
posted by The Whelk at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


What's the 'genocide convention'?
posted by Flashman at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Tact, motherfucker. Tact is necessary. Barking at other countries doesn't work.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012


Genocide convention?
posted by Talez at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


YOU LITERALLY CANNOT FIND IRAN ON A MAP MITTENS

OH MY GOD

SHUT UP I HATE YOU OH MY GOD

DEREK HALE TAKE ME AWAY
posted by elizardbits at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Does he not know the meaning of the word indite?
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012


Treating diplomats as pariahs is a great way to reach agreements.
posted by winna at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Nuclear folly?
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012


genocide incitation? Well so much for those backroom talks that were not happening that the NYT reported and then did not report
posted by lampshade at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012


weird, Romney strategy seems to be just repeat whatever Obama says...
posted by dhruva at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012


crippling sanctions

Ableist motherfucker.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 6:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


OMG, one of my TeaPublican relatives just said on FB "Did our president just compare our Navy to a game of battleships and our armament to bayonnets?"

Definitely time for wine.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 6:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, hand gestures. Oh, oh, Bob, no.
posted by maryr at 6:50 PM on October 22, 2012


When I'm President, there will be more bayonets. And, horses. And those underwater boats of which you speak.
posted by Otherwise at 6:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


gencon
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Our only mission in Iran is making sure they don't develop nuclear weapons? How about less jingoistic talk about Iran?
posted by limeonaire at 6:50 PM on October 22, 2012


Someone told me that in marketing you always need an odd number of bullet points. I've noticed that Romney always has an odd number of plan points.
posted by aspo at 6:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Let's not mock the Genocide Convention, everyone.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


so I'm the only one who thought that was a touch condescending then?

It was very condescending, but it was worth making. The Navy of 2012 would uttered destroy the Navy of 1916, so of course we don't need as many ships.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


Iran can enter the League of Nations. Yep.
posted by snsranch at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama has kept his best burn material for the last debate.
posted by ersatz at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


oooo..."say them louder would make a difference"

heh heh
posted by lampshade at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


UNDERLYING MESSAGE: I actually know how government works you fucking toddler.
posted by The Whelk at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [17 favorites]


Romney's foreign policy is clearly just a stimulus for the dressage horses of war, who dare not sip the oil of Iranian hatred
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I love it -- Obama just reminded the world that foreign policy is hard, and takes lots of work. Smooth.
posted by wintermind at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


"Someone told me that in marketing you always need an odd number of bullet points. I've noticed that Romney always has an odd number of plan points."

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


ROMNEY JUST ASKED FOR AHMADINEJAD TO BE TRIED UNDER THE "GENOCIDE CONVENTIONS" BECAUSE HIS WORDS ENCOURAGE GENOCIDE

HIS WORDS

GENOCIDE

GUYS
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Ah, good job Obama talking about Iranians like humans.
posted by limeonaire at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012


I'D DO WHAT YOU DO ONLY LOUDER.
posted by Otherwise at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


OK kids, that's it!

Bib Bird -- Binders of women --Bayonets.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


I'm imagining Mitt's bayonet military like a new Decemberists song.
posted by iamkimiam at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


Navy 2012/Navy 1916 will surely be the next Reddit alt-history megathread.
posted by barnacles at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Just say it louder! That's how you get furriners to understand English, anyway.
posted by Superplin at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012


Yeah, Mitt doesn't get that US-only sanctions are pretty useless. Or he doesn't care, so long as he can look tuff.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt the hell what's with the coquettish blinks and nods what the hell man are you crashing
posted by The Whelk at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Horses & Bayonets", "Genocide Convention"

This debate is ripe with so many shirt ideas (that everyone else is going to beat me to making and I probably won't anyway)
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:51 PM on October 22, 2012


The Great Big Mulp: Nuclear folly?

Encyclopædia Britannica: "folly, (from French folie, “foolishness”), also called Eyecatcher, in architecture, a costly, generally nonfunctional building that was erected to enhance a natural landscape."
posted by Kattullus at 6:52 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
See what you did there.
posted by O Blitiri at 6:52 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama could Mitt in the bean bags and CNN will probably still call it a draw.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:52 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


iamkimiam: "I'm imagining Mitt's bayonet military like a new Decemberists song."

16 binders full of military wives?
posted by stet at 6:52 PM on October 22, 2012 [15 favorites]


scrunf scrunf scrunf
posted by cashman at 6:52 PM on October 22, 2012


So what happens when the clock stops, Obama? Same question, Romney.
posted by chrominance at 6:52 PM on October 22, 2012


Navy 2012/Navy 1916 will surely be the next Reddit alt-history megathread

No matter who wins, we get rum.

STRENGTH. DOWN YOUR DRINK.
posted by The Whelk at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


That's it. I'm voting for the smart guy.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Obama Weak. Me Strong.
posted by octothorpe at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012


"Apology tour"? BINGO!
posted by wintermind at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney conveniently forgets that Iran has been enriching uranium since before Obama took office. And forgets about Stuxnet.
posted by wierdo at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


> so I'm the only one who thought that was a touch condescending then?

No, it was condescending. But it's a ridiculous argument, one Romney's been making for a while and should have stopped by now. If he's going to be that amateurish he deserves a bit of teasing.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


STRENGTH: the opposite of WEAKNESS
posted by jinjo at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt the hell what's with the coquettish blinks and nods what the hell man are you crashing

Mitt Romney Looking Longingly At People
posted by saturday_morning at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


There's the daylight, that took much longer than I expected.
posted by maryr at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012


Remember the most important thing is to appear strong, not actually be strong, sell the sizzle, not the steak

DAYLIGHT, MULLAHS OH GOD I HAVE TO WORK TOMORROW STOP
posted by The Whelk at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012


Strength, strength, strength. Ignorance, ignorance, ignorance.
posted by ersatz at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012


STRENGTH STRENGTH STRENGTH

CENTRIFUGES
posted by shakespeherian at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012


SPINNING URANIUM
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012


Apology Tour? Fuck you Flip Romney.
posted by ericb at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012


"he'd meet with all the world's worst actors in his first year"

Did I miss the meeting with Schwarzenegger?
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


STOP CALLING IT AN APOLOGY TOUR

LITERALLY NO APOLOGIES WERE GIVEN
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Romney knows that Iran is laughing at us you guys. They said we had small wee wees.
posted by emjaybee at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012


Oooh what was that look during "centrifuges" Obama, are you gonna claim stuxnet?
posted by jason_steakums at 6:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Could the US Navy of 1916 conquer Rome?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Binders of centrifuges! 10,000 centrifuges!
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012


But are they spinning faster Mitt? That's the scary part right?
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


10,000 centrifuges!
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt's entire debate strategy: What he just said, but from a white guy
@billmaher
posted by edgeways at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [18 favorites]


10,000 centerfuges? Go on, Barry, take credit for Stuxnet. You know you want to.
posted by stet at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Gods, my mother would NOT get off the phone...whadImiss?
posted by dejah420 at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt they're the representatives of sovereign nations not puppies that keep peeing in the house
posted by The Whelk at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


So Romney wants to attack Iran? Obama needs to just ask him straight out....
posted by Skygazer at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012


Tighter! I said TIGHTER!
posted by headnsouth at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


So it looks like Obama is going to go with the "check it out I know stuff" strategy and Romney is going for more of a "I am telling you that I know stuff but I am not going to actually say any of it" thing
posted by rmless at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Spinning uranium? With a magical spinning wheel? Irans' army is going to have nuclear uniforms if we don't stop them.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Nothing Governor Romney just said is true"
posted by ersatz at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


"Nothing Governor Romney just said is true."

That's what we wanted to hear! SAY IT
posted by barnacles at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Nothing Governor Romney has said is true! YAY!
posted by jontyjago at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


ON SNAP

"NOTHING GOVERNOR ROMNEY JUST SAID IS TRUE"
posted by elizardbits at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


10,000 centrifuges!!!!! Not one centrifuge left behind!!!!
posted by theartandsound at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012


I would totally buy tickets to the Apology Tour because that shit is long overdue.

Would totally buy that ticket before the one for 10,000 Centrifuges.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Has anyone else ever taken a bucket of uranium and spun it around? You gotta keep spinnin' that uranium, otherwies it flies out and irradiates the shit out of you.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Whopper! Damn.
posted by janell at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"nothing Governor Romney just said is true"

"biggest whopper"

PLEASE HAVE A VICTORY PARADE WITH PONIES, SIR, LET THERE BE INAUGURATION PONIES
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


Weakness! Just like Jimmy Carter!
posted by homunculus at 6:54 PM on October 22, 2012


NOTHING YOU HAVE SAID IS TRUE
posted by The Whelk at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Tightest sanctions possible! We need to tighten them!!!

Has he been reading 50 Shades of Gray?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


"NOTHING GOVERNOR ROMNEY SAID IS TRUE."

BOO-YA!
posted by Room 641-A at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


OH SHIT. Mitt invested in Iran!
posted by jason_steakums at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


How many of them came from Bain?
posted by edgeways at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012


Mmmmm....Whoppers (TM).
posted by blurker at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012


WHOPPER HAHAHA
posted by triggerfinger at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012


You go, Obama. Fact checkers say you are a LIAR!
posted by ericb at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012


WHOPPER. Closest Obama will come to saying "you lie!"
posted by zardoz at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012


we should say 'differently abling' sanctions.
posted by Mister_A at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


WHOPPER

oh yeah
posted by quietalittlewild at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Spinning uranium. Quick, somebody make an animated gif!
posted by SillyShepherd at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012


I THOUGHT THE MILITARY HAD SWARMS OF MILLIONS OF NANOBOATS
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012


We should put centrifuges on our aircraft carriers.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012


"Nothing Governor Romney just said is true"

Since, like, April 2010.
posted by gladly at 6:55 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Obama: You were still invested in a Chinese oil company working in Iran. Whooff!
posted by Skygazer at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]






10,000 Centrifuges is way better in the book than the movie. I thought it lost the plot and just kind of went in circles, personally.
posted by feloniousmonk at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I kind of prefer the 'uhs' to the gathering pauses where you can see the President fighting not to go 'uh'.
posted by winna at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012


Quote from my facebook feed: "Now I why the man in the White House wants to prevent the military from voting." What right-wing meme is this?
posted by waitingtoderail at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh god, he even repeated it as he repeated it.
posted by maryr at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012


If I say it twice, it must be true.
posted by blurker at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012


Has he been reading 50 Shades of Gray?

Behave or Mittens will read 50 Shades of Gray to you as bedtime story.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012


ISRAEL GOT DISSED!
posted by giraffe at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012


Just once, just one time, I want Obama to look at Romney and say "You fucking idiot.....", just one time.
posted by HuronBob at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


That's it. I'm voting for the smart guy.

Mitt's not stupid, he's just venal, powerhungry, arrogant, a little ignorant, and utterly willing to assume any position that will get him higher up the ladder (presumably as long as it doesn't conflict with a loose interpretation of his religion). He's dangerous because he is smart but his intelligence is utterly focussed on his own personal success.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012 [16 favorites]


"We're four years closer to nuclear Iran" Wait, doesn't that mean they haven't progressed at all? It's been four years.
posted by fungible at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


We could just leave the "Iran problem" to Iran's biggest enemy - Saddam Hussein. Oh, wait ...
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012


HAHA OH MY GOD

LOOKIT MITT PRETENDING HE CARES ABOUT THE JEWS
posted by elizardbits at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Nuclear Iran? Fuck you Mitt, you piece of shit scaremonger.
posted by zardoz at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012


Uhh Mitt? Are you defending the Iraq war?
posted by jason_steakums at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2012


Every four years, we'll ALWAYS be closer to a nuclear Iran, you dumbshit.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


APOLOGY TOUR? FUCK YOU, FLIP!
posted by ericb at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012


"You skipped Isreal," with a very soulful look.
posted by Danf at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012


"First trip I took was to visit our troops"

OH SNAP MUTHAFUCKA!!!!!!!
posted by barnacles at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


NUMBER TWO, REPEATING, GID I HOPE SOMEONE FIRES THE PROGRAMMER WHO DID THIS TS IS REDUNDANT.

I LOVE ISREAL MORE! ME!
posted by The Whelk at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012


We should put centrifuges on our aircraft carriers.
What are these aircraft carriers you speak of? We should have centrifuges mounted on horseback.
posted by Flunkie at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012


Lol America has not dictated other nations. *Cough*
posted by ersatz at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


'oh by the way?' That's the PRESIDENT, you sniveling prig.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012


"If we're going to talk about trips that we've taken..." sick burn.
posted by sallybrown at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Ugh, stop saying "A nuclear Iran"
posted by limeonaire at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012


I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY, SO I'M GOING TO WHIP OUT A TRIVIAL SEMANTIC ARGUMENT!
posted by Diagonalize at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Spinning centrifuges" is beginning to sound like some sort of dance move for robots

oh wait he's explaining the "apology tour" which apparently included "dictating to other nations" only, somehow, that's bad, instead of the mysterious FORCES OF FREEDOM that will help free Syria, magically, the way we want it to?
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012


GODWINNED THE DEBATE OMG
posted by elizardbits at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


No pictures yet here. But it exists!
posted by insectosaurus at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"We are 4 years closer to nuclear Iraq."

If Romney had been president, he would have stopped time and those 4 years would never have passed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


AMERICA HAS NOT DICTATED

ONLY BEEN VERY, VERY STRONG
posted by jinjo at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Did Mitt just forget to explain Obama's Chinese company doing business with Iran hit?
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt -you whining, wheedling, Little Brother Who Can't Play Ball With the Big Guys wet-behind-the-ears-from-hair-dye-huffing motherfucker.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


I don't know why they're even bothering to pretend to ask Bob- he's completely out of the frame.
posted by winna at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"America has not dictated to other nations. It has liberated other nations from dictators." As well as installed a few of our own.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


YOU HEAR THAT? WHOPPER, YEAH, AS IN: BARRY JUST PULLED BURNERS MADE THE MOTHERFUCKIN BEEF COOK AND SERVED YOU, NYUCKA!

DAMN

damn.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012


You tell him Bama!!!

I like it when Obama lectures him
posted by triggerfinger at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I LOVE ISREAL MORE

I CAN ACTUALLY PRONOUCE HEBREW WORDS.
posted by The Whelk at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


OMG the one-upsmanship is really annoying on both sides.

I visited Israel!
Oh yeah? Well I visited the troops!
posted by headnsouth at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


You know that sound in Baldur's Gate when you trigger a trap and fireballs start shooting at you?
posted by penduluum at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Obama is now nailing it. Get out of the hyperbolic and tell the personal story. Yes.
posted by meinvt at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Holy shit.
posted by mynameisluka at 6:57 PM on October 22, 2012


someone, get mitt a handi-wipe for his butt
posted by lampshade at 6:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Dammit my son took out the garbage and did his homework and cleaned the bathroom and I've run out of chores so he really does get to use the computer for Minecraft now.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


Romney ... Tight faced smirk, blink, blink, blink ...
posted by ericb at 6:58 PM on October 22, 2012


My favourite 10,000 centrifuges songs is Peace Aircraft Carrier
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Does Mitt Romney know I have a centrifuge at work?
posted by maryr at 6:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Wow. I kind of forgot that there was a moderator.
posted by giraffe at 6:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


LOOKIT MITT PRETENDING HE CARES ABOUT THE JEWS

Or, as he calls them, Gentiles.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Nice job, nailing Mitt for just using Israel as a fundraiser.
posted by Theta States at 6:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


WHAT IFFFFFFF
posted by en forme de poire at 6:58 PM on October 22, 2012


Did Romney just refuse to answer the moderator's question? Can you do that??
posted by barnacles at 6:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Hypotheticals hurt Mitt's head.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yad Vashem and S'derot. Thanks how you do it.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


You are the king of hypotheticals mitt you only deal in abstract vagueness
posted by The Whelk at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


that's a bad hypo
WAIT DON'T ASK HIM NEVERMIND
scary things!
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


ANOTHER MODERATOR SCALP!
posted by ersatz at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Bob, i'd like to not answer the question if that's alright.
posted by shakespeherian at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Someone keeps kicking the camera tripod aimed at Mitt, no?
posted by obscurator at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012


Wow, Mitt actually had a good answer there.
posted by zardoz at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012


So, Mr. Big Balls Republican doesn't have any idea of how he'd respond when that phonecall comes in the middle of the night? Typical chickenhawk.
posted by wintermind at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Please tell me "four years closer" was in the drinking game.
posted by maryr at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012


uh this debate is ABOUT hypotheticals, jerk

specifically you being the president
posted by ninjew at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Why did I pick "tumult" as my drinking word?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


He just fired Bob!
posted by O Blitiri at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Eventually all 10,000 centrifuges will spin in sync with each other. I saw it in a thread here the other day.
posted by ceribus peribus at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"I would answer your question but I'd rather tell you what I see in my crystal ball."


Oh Mitt....
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012


When you are losing a debate, just convince everyone they are about to be nuclear bombed
posted by rmless at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh god, there is now going to be a metric buttload of Netanyahu/Romney slash.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


It was a stupid question. Point to Romney on that.
posted by Thistledown at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The lines on CNN can even detect Mitt's lying-ness.
posted by lineofsight at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2012


ROMNEY BOT ERROR ERROR ERROR #######2476547 ERROR ERROR ERROR


FAIL
posted by snsranch at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


tumult everywhere
posted by SomaSoda at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2012


I see skies of death.
Bloody roses too.
I see destruction...for me and you.
And I think to myself
What a Romnerful world.
posted by cashman at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


this is just gibberish, right? I have literally no idea what this whole paragraph has been about
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2012


When Mitt looks around the world, is he spinning a globe?
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Quick, someone put Lehrer's hair on Schieffer's head!
posted by wierdo at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"I see..."

♪♪ Doctor my eyes... ♪♪
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2012


One Ticonderoga class Cruiser and a freighter full of reloads The Navy of 2012 would uttered destroy the Navy of 1916, so of course we don't need as many ships.

FTFY
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


On the other hand, that one sentence was the only thing he's said I agree with. Let's not play pretend games with what would be an unimaginably horrible possibility on national television.
posted by winna at 7:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Ronny Romney really is not making any sense
posted by jontyjago at 7:01 PM on October 22, 2012


I never in my life thought there'd be a Republican candidate for President that would make George W. Bush look smart by comparison. Seriously. This is unbelievable.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


That's Democratic, shithead.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


I believe it's pronounced Nuke-ya-ler
posted by Mister_A at 7:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


OULIPO ROMNEY STYLE
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


"Govern, the problem is ... you've been all over the map. I'm pleased you're endorsing OUR policies, ... but just a few years ago you said that's something you'd never do."

SAY "FLIP FLOP" the GOP hates that

SAY IT SAY IT SAY IT
posted by barnacles at 7:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Mitt is full of facts but can't really put them together to draw a sensible conclusion. You would almost think he had memorized a bunch of talking points. JUST LIKE ANOTHER PERSON I KNOW.
posted by triggerfinger at 7:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney's grasping like a drowning man now after not wanting to answer that "hypothetical."
posted by Skygazer at 7:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Welp. I've run out of the overly expensive special almond toffee I was using in place of alcohol.

Now what :(
posted by jinjo at 7:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


ICE BUUUUUUURN
posted by The Whelk at 7:01 PM on October 22, 2012


LOOKIT MITT PRETENDING HE CARES ABOUT THE JEWS

They are actually all secretly Mormons, they were all baptized in absentia deep in an underground bunker below the mother church in Salt Lake.
posted by sammyo at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Here, Mitt, meet my new friends FLIP and FLOP."
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012


You know, I really wish someone would start talking about Soft Power and what we can do to increase the USA's Soft Power.

I find it insanely sad that all these debates over foreign policy degenerate to discussions about military power.

Here's a hint to all you politicos. The best way to win a conflict is to make the other side not even want to fight you.
posted by bswinburn at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


in the same way.......[insert stupid mitt promise here]
in the same way.......[insert stupid mitt promise here]
in the same way.......[insert stupid mitt promise here]
in the same way.......[insert stupid mitt promise here]

good one mr pres
posted by lampshade at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'd like to see the president finally roll his eyes and say, "For crying out loud, I missed the Bears game for this clown?"
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Welp. I've run out of the overly expensive special almond toffee I was using in place of alcohol.

Now what :(

Alcohol.
posted by ersatz at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


‎"But I think Gov. Romney maybe hasn't spent enough time looking at how our military works," said Obama. "You mention the Navy, and how we have fewer ships than 1916. We also have fewer horses and bayonets, because the nature of our military has changed. We have aircraft carriers; we have ships that go underwater; nuclear submarines."

"And so the question is not a game of 'Battleship' where we're counting ships."
posted by Senor Cardgage at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Schieffer is such an amateur, even Romney saw that "gotcha" question coming from a mile away
posted by any major dude at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012


He remembered the name of the 4-year-old. Damn.
posted by mdonley at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012


Please no 911 stuff. Argh
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012


PINK BRACELET OH HEY
posted by sallybrown at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012


I didn't want to spend too much time on it, but a quick perusal of Wikipedia indicates that a lot of the capital ships in the 1917 fleet (maybe the majority of it? who knows what is specifically being referenced) were participants in the Great White Fleet's circumnavigation in 1907. Oh, Mitt, you miss when the Navy was the Great White Fleet?
posted by feloniousmonk at 7:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]




Mitt looks queasey and green.
posted by The Whelk at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Now what :(

We comfort you.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Did Mr. Romney just learn the word "tumult" (4 times already)?
posted by infinite intimation at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012


As romney watches Obama as he speaks, I can see him thinking... "don't let them see it in my eyes, please, don't let them see it...."
posted by HuronBob at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


blah blah 9/11 we will nevar forget zzzzzz
posted by zardoz at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012


Somehow I think this is where Obama wins
posted by hellojed at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


HAHA SHUT UP MITTENS
posted by elizardbits at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Give Mitt a chance.
posted by ersatz at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012


9/11!!

*Drink!*
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Good for you, Bob!
posted by HuronBob at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh shit, OBAMA'S ON FIRE!
Who'd have thought he'd rock it on 9/11?
posted by Theta States at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Keep interrupting Mitt! KEEP IT UP
posted by triggerfinger at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012


THANK YOU BOB SHUT HIM DOWN
posted by twist my arm at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Was that ... wait a minute. Was that moderation? Fascinating!
posted by barnacles at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Romney, please don't laugh ever again.

heh heh heh heh heh heh heh...
posted by giraffe at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


SHOT DOOOOOWN IN A BLAZE OF BORING
posted by elizardbits at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]


Moderator smackdown!
posted by dirigibleman at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012


OH MY GOD HE'S THE MODERATOR HE CAN DO WHAT HE WANTS, YOU MEWLING GIT.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


"Yeah, you did it first pal."
posted by The Hamms Bear at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012


With respect sir, you had laid out quite a, uh, program there...
posted by Pudhoho at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Schieffer finally laying down the law.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, Bob actually did some moderating?
posted by Panjandrum at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh God, tears to eyes at that story.
posted by limeonaire at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012


Ha Mitt is whining to the ref. The only guy who did that when he was winning was McEnroe, and you're no McEnroe, Mitt!
posted by Mister_A at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney just ASKED the moderator for something and he didn't get it. He's seriously, seriously losing his steam. Deflation is imminent.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Mitt is so chastened now he's actually listening to the moderator.
posted by wierdo at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Alright Bob, shut him down nicely.
posted by zardoz at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012


WHAT ABOUT THE FUCKING DRONES AND KILL LISTS BOB YOU FUCKING TOOL
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 7:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


I know I refused to answer the question earlier but that's not fair
posted by shakespeherian at 7:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Bob did a pretty good job of shutting Mittens down there when he started the whole "But Whaaaa I wanna disagree with the black man!"
posted by dejah420 at 7:05 PM on October 22, 2012


2014? I thought withdrawal deadlines were bad?
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Obama needs to ask Romney just a one word question.

"How?"
posted by fullerine at 7:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Hold on, did he adopt Obama's timetable? That first debate wasn't that long ago, Mitt. A few people might have seen both of them.
posted by ersatz at 7:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


WTF when he's president we'll be out by 2014? Just the last debate he was saying we shouldn't give a timeline! What a big mistake it is to give a timeline!

Jesus Christ they say this about every politician, but this guy really is a flip-flopper.
posted by Flunkie at 7:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


a can someone just page me when Romney says something insane that results in a meme this wine box is nearly gone
posted by The Whelk at 7:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Clearly Pakistan has better centrifuges.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


oh I see, Pakistan is important because they have warheads

subtle, so very subtle
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2012


"All over the map" is also where Romney's money is.
(stolen from @juliasegal)
posted by Flashman at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Man Mitt is all about being helpful and convincing people without sticking guns in their faces!
posted by Mister_A at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2012




Mitt is pulling out the flame topics all over.


If he was making a FPP, it would be deleted for sure.
posted by lampshade at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


The CNN running tally of how undecided men and woman are trending seems to be pretty luke-warm on Romney's comments -- especially the women.
posted by blurker at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2012


Wai that wasn't even an answer it was just words
posted by The Whelk at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


Pakistan is a nuclear power, numbnuts.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2012


a can someone just page me when Romney says something insane that results in a meme this wine box is nearly gone

BOXES FULL OF WINE
posted by mudpuppie at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


I think Mitt forgot about another certain large, nuclear power threatened by a destabilized Pakistan.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I bet Ann wishes she could barf in her purse.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Romney is blurting out facts he has memorized but clearly does not understand and cannot contextualize
posted by Senor Cardgage at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


WHAT ABOUT THE FUCKING DRONES AND KILL LISTS BOB YOU FUCKING TOOL

Sir, we're going to ask you wait outside in the alley with Ms. Stein.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]


I withdraw my previous criticism of Bob Schieffer, someone just got slapped at the Country Club dinner.

Mitt. Mitt got slapped. Ooooh that felt good to watch.
posted by Kattullus at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Heh, "pulling out responsibly".
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


STOP LOORKING DIRECTLY AT THE CAMERA MITT YOU CREEP ME OUT
posted by The Whelk at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I can't stand listening to Romney. He's like a precocious child earnestly trying to teach something to you, completely oblivious to a) his own ignorance and b) the fact that you already know the subject matter much, much better than him.
posted by zardoz at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [16 favorites]


I think Mitt forgot about another certain large, nuclear power threatened by a destabilized Pakistan.

France?
posted by maryr at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


also, didn't Ryan totally slam the local Afghani security forces during the VP debate? did I imagine that Biden-smackdown in the general Glory of Biden chuckles?
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I kind of want to see some punches thrown. Does that make me a bad person?
posted by giraffe at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012


Binder women! To the freedom voices! The boxes of wine! The centrifugii!!!!!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


This debate would have been more informative if Albert Brooks' character from Broadcast News was the moderator.
posted by any major dude at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm trying to play along like it's Jeopardy, but it's not working. Hmmmm.
posted by iamkimiam at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012


"... time to do some nation-building here at home."

Yes!!! Do!
posted by barnacles at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Infrastructure, YES!
posted by headnsouth at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


*Devastated

"Decimated," Mr. President, means you only killed 10% of them.

/language&historynerd
posted by Panjandrum at 7:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Whoa, Romney almost threw up
posted by goHermGO at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


RUSSIA HAS NUCULAR BOMBS!
posted by Mister_A at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012


Dear God?!! We gave you guys in the western colonies the permission to rule yourselves for a while, like, 236 years ago now (which in terms of our history isn't very long), and this is the best you can do? What is coming out of the mouth of Herman Munster's slightly prettier brother?

You guys are welcome back to the mother country at any time but, please, for the love of Cthulhu, try and find a better class of political opponent. Seriously. Rick Perry was somehow worse than this?!
posted by Wordshore at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


I keep wanting to tell Mitt to stay down so the brutal pummeling will stop. Stay down, Mitt! Stay down!
posted by Justinian at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh hey, name check PTSD by name, good for the veteran vote

Oh crap wow we have another box oh no
posted by The Whelk at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Definitely some intratracheal vomiting happening on the left side of my screen.
posted by obscurator at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


romney literally looks like he's about to shit his pants
posted by JimBennett at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012


if you wait to pull out you have to stick around to take care of whiny things
posted by ninjew at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012


Good mention of veteran care.
posted by zardoz at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012


I hate the fact that I'm watching this and hearing Romney sound like a total fool but afterward, the networks will still call it a draw.
posted by octothorpe at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [23 favorites]


I was waiting for an answer from Romney on what he would do if Afghanistan was not strong enough to withdraw troops. I figured this would be a tough question for him because he had to go first and could not parrot the Prez. I was right. It was hard. Gobbledy-gook blah blah blah Pakistan! blah blah blah.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt just rolled his eyes when Obama mentioned the First Lady. How rude!
posted by dejah420 at 7:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


oh god he said obama bin laden
posted by elizardbits at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


"Obama's Bin Laden"?
posted by jason_steakums at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Oh bob.
posted by cashman at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


he just said "obama bin laden"
posted by koeselitz at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012


Good lord, did he just say Obama Bin Laden?! I wasn't paying attention.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012


"Obama bin Laden"! Quite a slip of the tongue there Mr. Schieffer.
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney is winning. He's not winning to a liberal ear because the guy is a fucking idiot but he's winning. Dog whistle scaremongering with the whole "four years closer to a nuclear Iran".

yeah....he is holding enough to keep his supporters inside the bubble.
posted by lampshade at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Obama's bin Laden."
Oops.
posted by obscurator at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I know you're feeling sick Romney lying that much makes me feel ill too
posted by The Whelk at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012


People on the news were saying that this debate would be right in Obama's wheelhouse. I guess they were right!
posted by blurker at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Binder women! To the freedom voices! The boxes of wine! The centrifugii!!!!!

The 100 nuclear weapons! Connie Network! Molly of the Bayonets!
posted by Mister_A at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Shorter Romney: Obama is rocking it in Afghanistan.
posted by humanfont at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012


Pretty sure it was "Obama's bin Laden", which was. . .weird.
posted by Ndwright at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012


You guys are welcome back to the mother country at any time

You all don't want me - I have run the points program like forty times and no matter what I don't have enough to move.
posted by winna at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I kind of want to see some punches thrown. Does that make me a bad person?
posted by giraffe at 7:07 PM on October 22 [+] [!]



No but it might make you Tagg Romney
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


No we shouldn't divorce Pakistan, because then we'd have to give them half of our military.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


Romney is winning. He's not winning to a liberal ear because the guy is a fucking idiot but he's winning. Dog whistle scaremongering with the whole "four years closer to a nuclear Iran". Being confident about winning the election. Making Obama chase his tail a lot of the time. He's an idiot but he's projecting better.

FWIW, CNN's undecided Florida voter trendlines are loving just about everything Obama says while lukewarm-to-negative on Romney's answers.
posted by Rhaomi at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Why is N. Dakota the only state voting for foreign policy topic: the war in Afghanistan?
posted by Surfurrus at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012


So if a nationa has lots of nuclear weapons, you don't divorce them.

So maybe Iran is trying to build nukes just because it wants a relationship! That's sweet!
posted by barnacles at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Women of CNN Fl. seem to be strongly favourable to President Obama (I seriously hope everyone at CNN et al. who use language that sounds like "courting language", "turned on/off" is just never given a serious microphone again).

(President Obama compared Mr. Romney to Mr. Biden on their "positions" regarding what should have been done to get Osama Bin Laden [clever framing])
posted by infinite intimation at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Grab your hands!
posted by aspo at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012


So ten minutes ago he says that we don't want Pakistan to become a failed state, and then says that the civilian government there doesn't actually...work?
posted by mdonley at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012


In four years Pakistan will have four more years of nuclear capability under its belt.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Did I mention nuclear terrorist weapon hand??? DID I????
posted by Mister_A at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012


What is this scifi shit Romney is writing about Pakistan?
posted by shakespeherian at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


This debate would have been more informative if Albert Brooks' character from Broadcast News was the moderator.

Along with the sweating and the defective set!
posted by Pudhoho at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Wait why are we talking about Pakistan as a future failed state? That's...that's kind of unseemly, really.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]




"Pakistan is on it's way to doubling its number of nuclear weapons someday."

Pretty true for every country, no?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney sounds like he's reading a children's encyclopedia on Pakistan.
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


12 Days of Christmas, 2012 Election edition: 10,000 centrifuges, 100 nuclear weapons, 5 simple steps, and a horse holding a bayonet...
posted by theartandsound at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


"No, we want to stay friends with them, even though I'm clearly terrified either way" -How Romney sounded just now
posted by limeonaire at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama gave a death stare when Romney said he doesn't blame the administration for the strained relations with Pakistan.
posted by ersatz at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012


DRONES!
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Trial separation with Pakistan.
posted by ceribus peribus at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm going to lie down and bench pres this box of wine while slowly emptying it via straw
posted by The Whelk at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


Is it bad that I'm feeling sorry for Romney right now? Dude does not look well.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


DRONES
posted by rebent at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012


Mother Jones: Romney invested his personal money—nearly $77,000—in a Chinese oil company that was doing business with Iran http://is.gd/mH5TwJ #debates
posted by changeling at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


DRONES
posted by triggerfinger at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012


My one conservative Facebook commentator has been very excited by Mitt's performance. We really do live in different worlds.
posted by meinvt at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I keep waiting for Mitt to realize he's failing his Voight-Kampff test and jump the desk.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


EVERYBODY LIKES DRONES

HUGE MASS OF BEES FOR PRESIDENT.
posted by The Whelk at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


I am so tired of Romney deciding who is civil and who is not. Who is moral and who is not.

Who died and appointed him god? What arrogance.
posted by lampshade at 7:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"killing bad guys"... is that the second time? WTF!
posted by HuronBob at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Drones are being used in drone strikes." No, really?
posted by octothorpe at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012


I love drones and I love droning on and on and on
posted by rmless at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Any and all means necessary to take out people who pose a threat to us
posted by jinjo at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Seriously, we were not talking about Iran.
posted by maryr at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Is Iran closer to Obam? Yes.
posted by Dr. Send at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Ah, yes. Islamic extremism.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012


TUMOOLTIPASS
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [16 favorites]


What does that answer have to do with drones? Drones was the question.
posted by dejah420 at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012


I think someone told Mitt that "tumult" is part of the drinking game.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Damn I love a good tumult!
posted by quietalittlewild at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney is winning.

Pasted from The National Review's The Corner:
JonahNRO Why won't Obama correct Schieffer's pronunciation? "Bob, it's pronounced POCK-ee-STahn.
12 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

jimgeraghty Is it time for us to divorce Pakistan? I dunno, some Pakistanis have some pretty extreme views on marital laws.
25 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Mario_A_Loyola Obama's failure has been to manage crises piecemeal, without strategy.The way to defeat his argument is NOT piecemeal, but with strategy.
about 1 minute ago · reply · retweet · favorite

jimgeraghty Obama just wanted to end the war in Afghanistan so that veterans could get jobs at home in our thriving American economy.
about 1 minute ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Mario_A_Loyola There he goes again: Obama using "we" when he means "the Bush administration."
2 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

RichLowry so did romney just endorse taking all u.s. troops out of afghanistan after 2014?
3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

JonahNRO I hope the Obama bus has all-wheel drive to climb over all the bodies he's thrown under it.
3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

JonahNRO The way Obama stares at Romney, it's like he's thinking: "Why won't Romney burst into flames? Why!?"
4 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

JonahNRO Shorter Obama: My first presidential decision was to pick a veep as wrong as Mitt Romney.
5 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

robertcostaNRO That was Schieffer as TV veteran right there: No, sir, the clock is running and we must move to C Block
5 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

kathrynlopez joe biden=mitt romney?
6 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
It reads more like each side is praising their chosen horse, which is no surprise.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


> "Decimated," Mr. President, means you only killed 10% of them.

>> It really doesn't, and hasn't for a long time.

Meet my legion at the playground after school. We'll settle this.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


I do love the word "tumult".
posted by Theta States at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Robot Romney supports drones...surprise.
posted by limeonaire at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty sure Romney's Word of the Day calendar landed on "tumult" today.
posted by bondcliff at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


ROMNEY ENDORSES OBAMA!
posted by hydrophonic at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


"It's not a tumult." FFS.
posted by obscurator at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Tumult again. Drink!!!
posted by dry white toast at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Tumult x 4!
posted by Mapes at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012


So maybe Iran is trying to build nukes just because it wants a relationship! That's sweet!

I know this is a joke, but once you have nukes you're like the Ohio of the world.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


does he just see this as a movie with HORSES AND BAYONETS vs. SPINNING CENTRIFUGES, set in some sort of benighted land with Roadrunner ACME BOMBS strewn about?
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012


no drones :(
posted by rebent at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Lincecum's warming up! Giants 7-0.
posted by mudpuppie at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Romney says "Terror" like Bush II did: "Terr".
posted by vibrotronica at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB IRAN
posted by ninjew at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2012


Tumult!
posted by Wordwoman at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama, Romney. Please. Oh, please. There are only minutes left. Do not mention 'Honey Boo-boo.' Otherwise, I will be required to take shots of rye, vodka and Jägermeister.
posted by ericb at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Tunisia!
posted by maryr at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2012


I wonder how bad it makes him, and his harder core supporters, feel when Mitt says, straight out, that "The President was right to do that."

I wonder if he loses some small, small, small, microscopic portion of his voter base each time that happens
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2012


meinvt, only one conservative on your fb feed? Lucky.
posted by headnsouth at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt: "Some of my best friends are drones."
posted by goHermGO at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I suspect that "killing bad guys" is actually romney's anti-bullying program in our schools....
posted by HuronBob at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2012


Me!
posted by homunculus at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Man, look at my president observing that Romney dipshit with his steely eyes, like a hawk waiting for the moment when he swoops in, snaps Romney's spine and gobbles him up like a little weasel....
posted by Skygazer at 7:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Definitely a Rorschach debate. No real zingers, no real callouts. Or have I missed them????
posted by zardoz at 7:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, as per usual, you need to be able to make your comments without the ironic racism/sexism/hurfdurf stuff. Thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm glad Obama is talking about soft power.
posted by ersatz at 7:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Everytime Obama hears a lie, he gives Shieffer a knowing look.
posted by Bokmakierie at 7:14 PM on October 22, 2012


Ugh, can we stop calling in the homeland?
posted by maryr at 7:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Romney said The President was right. The demos should run that as an ad over and over again.
posted by humanfont at 7:14 PM on October 22, 2012


China! C'mon, Obama, go for the jugular. CHOMP
posted by barnacles at 7:14 PM on October 22, 2012


TALK TALK TALK TALK AROUND THE POINT
posted by The Whelk at 7:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Come on Sensata!
posted by cashman at 7:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Tuning out the tumult in Tunisia together!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:14 PM on October 22, 2012


Very telling when Mitt gets a "YES PLEASE BOB!" smile when Bob says "Let's go to the next issue.", instead of arguing for more time to talk.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


@VanityFair
Romney: Israel NOTICED that you didn't visit this year, Barack. Israel will not be sending you $36 for Chanukah.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


Who's hurfdurfing? C'mon, people, quit with the hurfdurfing!
posted by blurker at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney has never said the words women, respect, and dignity in the same sentence.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2012


Definitely a Rorschach debate.

Obama dropped Mitt down a rhetorical elevator shaft?
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


I like a good brouhaha myself.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


mudpuppie: "Lincecum's warming up! Giants 7-0."

Flagged as booooo. Go Tigers!

posted by fireoyster at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Why does China have to play by the same rules as everyone else? I mean, it's not like the US plays by the same rules as everyone else.
posted by barnacles at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Ugh, can we stop calling in the homeland?

Okay, "Fatherland" it is.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


How many times has Romney said he agreed with and/or supported one of Obama's policies or proposals?
posted by Room 641-A at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2012


TALK TALK TALK TALK AROUND THE POINT

I see what song you're doing there.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:16 PM on October 22, 2012


@JohnKerry: Mitt apparently had no binders on foreign policy
posted by changeling at 7:16 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The greatest future threat to the national security of this country is HURFDURFING.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:16 PM on October 22, 2012


TALK TALK TALK TALK AROUND THE POINT

+2 bardic song bonus.
posted by ersatz at 7:16 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


My one conservative Facebook commentator has been very excited by Mitt's performance. We really do live in different worlds.

Of course. Mitt's a salesman. He's not flip-flopping, he's resetting the merchandise. These people are excited by sizzle, not substance. And certainly not by facts.
posted by Pudhoho at 7:16 PM on October 22, 2012


MITT LOOKING PRETTY MADE UP TONIGHT

IT'S NO TELEMUNDO THOUGH
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:16 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


The 9/11 4-year old story was better than the tire one, Mr. President.
posted by Diagonalize at 7:16 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]




Why does the US have to be the best at everything? I'm semi-serious here.
posted by giraffe at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


More from the The Corner:
jimgeraghty Wish these guys had just played Risk, although Obama would complain about all the bayonets and horses.
3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

RichLowry how many times has romney said the president is right tonight? i thought he shld try to be a little above the fray, but this is a bit much
3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

JonahNRO Not a great Romney answer on drones. Even from hawkish perspective, there's a downside politically and also they hamper intel gathering.
3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

charlescwcooke Again, when Obama really doesn't like what Romney's saying, he looks at the moderator. It's so odd.
3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
Mitt isn't making many friends.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney just said that government doesn't make businesses successful and make them hire people?

What has his entire platform he's been running on based on then?
posted by hippybear at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Government doesn't create jobs! I will create 12 million jobs!
posted by droomoord at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


China is just like us guys!
posted by Room 641-A at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


wait China wants peace and hates protectionism? this is breaking news!
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Government investments caused the company I worked for to grow. #truestory
posted by maryr at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


BUSINESSESS OCCUR IN NATURE NATURALLY LIKE FUNGUS SPORES GOVERMENTS ARE EVIL MAKE ME THE HEAD OF GOVERMENT CAUSE I DON'T LIKE IT.
posted by The Whelk at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


A nuclear Iran? Greatest threat? Wrong again.
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012


What do you perceive to be the greatest future threat to national security of this country?

Obviously the reformation of the Spanish Armada - Mitt Romney
posted by any major dude at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


What - no DONNYBROOK, DUST-UP, FRACAS, or A BRIEF SCUFFLE ENSUED supporters here? For shame, you rounders!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


ROMNEY IS GOING INTO MADLIB MODE

"UH, BUSINESSES ARE NOT GROWN BY GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE OF THE THREAT OF A NUCLEAR IRAN"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


LET'S TALK ABOUT CHINA
posted by shakespeherian at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012


He's jumping in to answer the question. Now he's talking about China. Now China's jobs... OH FUCK !! ECONOMY. NOT. STRONG.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012


"We can be a partner with China." Give them our jobs and such.
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama: "we have to ensure that we're Takin' Care of Business here at home".

Obama is a secret Canadian.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:18 PM on October 22, 2012


So now China is our partner and we're not going to label them currency manipulators?

Does he realize that some of us watched the other debate?
posted by winna at 7:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


Metafilter: various forms of chaos.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


That's a weird change on China.
posted by Quonab at 7:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


China is human-farming.
posted by mudpuppie at 7:18 PM on October 22, 2012


Gee, China holds a sixteenth of our debt. That's a mighty large portion, Mitt.
posted by wierdo at 7:18 PM on October 22, 2012


After this debate, the Gallup poll will be like 92 to 7 in favor of Romney, but only because they oversample from Romney's NUCLEAR family
posted by King Bee at 7:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


78 minutes so far, and astonishingly neither of them have stopped for a nice cup of tea yet. No wonder everyone looks jaded.
posted by Wordshore at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm bored I need a seriously set the desk on fire moment or I'm just going to comb my new blonde hair.

AAAAHAHAH devalued currency I'm so sorry liver currency manipulator oh god no I will die stop
posted by The Whelk at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012


stavrosthewonderchicken: "I like a good brouhaha myself."

As do I, but all Mittens is giving us is falderal. I feel hornswoggled.
posted by dejah420 at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Currency manipulation! Drink.
posted by mdonley at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012


China is free and open!

But we lose jobs!

Tariffs!

Currency manipulator!

guys no one tell Bain about this, okay, I'll make it up to them
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012


ACTUAL ROMNEY QUOTE: "I'VE WATCHED YEAR-IN AND YEAR-OUT AS COMPANIES HAVE SHUT DOWN AND PEOPLE HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS"

YES YOU HAVE MITT
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [38 favorites]


wait but last time you said you'd crack down on China so was that your answer or what
posted by ninjew at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney talking about america losing jobs because China is just so wtf I don't even
posted by triggerfinger at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Romney will have a full day 1 if he's elected Godpleaseno
posted by ersatz at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oooh, the labeling! How, um...useless!
posted by blurker at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh I spoke too soon - they ARE still currency manipulators.

But somehow we're going to be partners with them? And now Bob points this out. Thanks for waking up for a minute, chief!
posted by winna at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012


Well it's no broadswords in a pit
posted by edgeways at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012


I will label them a currency manipulator. Then I will insist that they have to pay workers less or I won't send them any more stuff to make.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012


So essentially the Chinese are like modern-day Gremlins? *head explodes*
posted by mynameisluka at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"THEY" "THEY" "THEY"
posted by lineofsight at 7:19 PM on October 22, 2012


Mitt stop I have to work tomorrow noooooooo
posted by The Whelk at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012


THERE IS A CYLON TRADE WAR
posted by oulipian at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012


WE CAN'T SEE YOUR HANDS!
posted by Theta States at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012


Bob has just skipped Obama and started debating Mitt himself.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


YES CALL HIM OUT, BOB
posted by ninjew at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012


East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: "ACTUAL ROMNEY QUOTE: "I'VE WATCHED YEAR-IN AND YEAR-OUT AS COMPANIES HAVE SHUT DOWN AND PEOPLE HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS"


s/watched/supervised/g
posted by mullingitover at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Repeat yourself! Repeat repeat!
posted by aspo at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012


THIS is the Sensata moment.
posted by obscurator at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012


YES YOU HAVE MITT

It's the final debate, I hope Obama calls him on this.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama's look when Romney's speaking is priceless.
posted by ersatz at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


oh no our projector went out at "they sell us this much every year" etc. were there hand motions? or...?
posted by changeling at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012


This much? This much?
posted by zardoz at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh, THIS much versus THIS much, now I see, Mitt!
posted by sallybrown at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012


I AM SO HAPPY THE DEBATE HAPPENS ON CAPSLOCK DAY!!!
posted by Theta States at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


As do I, but all Mittens is giving us is falderal. I feel hornswoggled.

It's a fine kerfuffle, but I was hoping for more of a dustup.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


oh Romney, valve-interest stories are not the same as human-interest stories

I'm sorry but robots aren't human
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


OH SNAP!!!
posted by barnacles at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012


Pick a stance on China and stick with it, dude. They watch these debates, too.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Is it me or did Romney just get really emotional when he said: "They're stealing our intellectual property." I've been joking for years that Mitt's a robot, but that made me actually think for a second that he's actually a computer. Who breaks up when he thinks about lost intellectual property?
posted by Kattullus at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Bob Schieffer keeps letting Mitt double dip by asking him follow ups to his two minute statements.
posted by yoink at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


He just called him out on Bain!
posted by ersatz at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"...we have to say to our thieving, lying, manipulating friends in China..."
posted by iamkimiam at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh, I give up.
posted by blurker at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


There it is, he called him. I hoped he was holding this hole card.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012


WELCOME TO SNAPSVILLE, POPULATION: SOETORO
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012


"Trade War"?

Oh god The Phantom Menace was bad the first time guys

GUYS
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


VALVES. Drink!
posted by zardoz at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


YOU SHIPPED JOBS OVERSEAS FUCK YEAH OBAMA
posted by triggerfinger at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"You should know!"

BOO-YA!
posted by Room 641-A at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012


oh no our projector went out at "they sell us this much every year" etc. were there hand motions? or...?

yup, looked like he was bout to tally his bananas.

DAYLIGHT COME AND WE WANNA GO HOME
posted by winna at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Bob has just skipped Obama and started debating Mitt himself.

Wounded wildebeest and all that.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:23 PM on October 22, 2012


SEN

SA


TA



SEN-SA-TA!!


#BAINPORT NOW!!
posted by Skygazer at 7:23 PM on October 22, 2012


You're attacking me! Stop attacking me!
posted by obvious at 7:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Son of Detroit. Detroit Mitt City woo!
posted by ersatz at 7:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"My dad was head of a car company." Way to bond with the common Rust Belt voter there, Mitt.
posted by maryr at 7:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [16 favorites]


I hope Chris Matthews has an EMT close by.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


DETROIT!
posted by HuronBob at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012


you actually wanted the auto industry to go bankrupt

that's what you did

they went through a managed bankruptcy

that's what they did

how are your pants not on fire?
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney: Bama's bein mean to me waaaaahhhhh
posted by triggerfinger at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012


THIS. CAN'T. GO ON he said, with passion in his voice, for the first time, about counterfeit faucets or something
posted by jinjo at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


THEY ARE UNDER OUR BEDS

THEY ARE GLOWERING AT OUR DAUGHTERS

CHINA
posted by en forme de poire at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


not attacking you, attacking your policies Mitty. No ad-hom here.
posted by exlotuseater at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


oh my god watching him get caught in lie after lie after lie

immense boner
posted by elizardbits at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


My dad was head of a car company ~~~~~side smirk~~~~ooo you said car and I am the son of a car.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Sarah Silverman ‏@SarahKSilverman
It looks like @mittromney's whole head is made out of pussy skin #compliment
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Check the record!
posted by rmless at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012


LIEBOT ENGAGE!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012


Wordshore: 78 minutes so far, and astonishingly neither of them have stopped for a nice cup of tea yet. No wonder everyone looks jaded.

One of the nice things about watching the debate on Al Jazeera is that you get updates on cricket scores scrolling by on that distracting little bar all news channels must have these days.
posted by Kattullus at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


How can you provide a guarantee while you take a company through bankruptcy? Wouldn't that guarantee be an asset?
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama took the shot when he saw Romney open up the "exporting jobs to China" avenue.
posted by vibrotronica at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


(Matt, how's the server holding up here?....)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Let's check the record. People in Detroit don't forget."

That's fucking right!
posted by HuronBob at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


Y'all broke my internet.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:24 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney sweating. "I would never do anything to hurt Detroit."

Obama: Let's check the record.
posted by Skygazer at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


So Romney thinks the private sector should have gotten a no-lose deal to finance the GM bankruptcy, rather than the public who actually put up the money seeing the profit?
posted by wierdo at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"The people of Detroit don't forget!"

nice.
posted by Theta States at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012




Where's Candy Crowley when you need her?
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"I'm still speaking." That's how we know you're lying.
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


"I'm still speaking!"

Oh, you dick.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


DETROIT DONT FORGET!
posted by zardoz at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012


Research is great? #PhatGrants4Life
posted by wintermind at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm booting up the Springsteen, right now...
posted by HuronBob at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Investing in companies?! But.. aren't companies people? I am so confused.
posted by giraffe at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012


Finally we agree! RESEARCH IS GREAT! I'M STILL SPEAKING!
posted by mynameisluka at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


haha it's probably news to every R&D department that they don't do research! only academics do research! only government money is research!
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Solyndra!
posted by octothorpe at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012


ROM-BOT IS OUT OF CONTROL BZZZ>..BZZZTT...CRACKLE>>>>ZAP...PING!!
posted by Skygazer at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012


He would have made them go through bankruptcy so that they'd lower their costs, but then says he won't export jobs. Where the hell does he think the lower costs are going to come from if not from mass layoffs?
posted by smirkette at 7:25 PM on October 22, 2012


Stop getting slightly interesting in yur final moments debates I wanna go back to being too drunk for a Monday and reading fan fiction.

HIW DIES IT MAKE IT LESS LIKELY NOTHING CAN YOU SUPPORT A SINGLE ASSERTION WITH AN ACTUAL FACT OR NUMBER
posted by The Whelk at 7:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


RESEARCH IS GREAT
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I love how Romney is all for investing in basic research i.e. the costly bit, but wants private companies to take advantage of it afterwards.
posted by ersatz at 7:26 PM on October 22, 2012


"I'm still speaking."

Second term, Day 1: Drone strike on Mitt.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 7:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Anyone know what the Romneys drive?
posted by Thistledown at 7:26 PM on October 22, 2012


Now Obama needs to say NOW I'M TALKING
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


so wait i thought the government didn't create jobs

LAUGH IN HIS FACE
posted by ninjew at 7:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The Interrupting Cow has arrived.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Anyone know what the Romneys drive?

Drive? What are they, farmers?
posted by jason_steakums at 7:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [19 favorites]


"Let's check that."

Candy? Where are you and your real-time fact-checking mojo?
posted by Superplin at 7:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


He would have made them go through bankruptcy so that they'd lower their costs, but then says he won't export jobs. Where the hell does he think the lower costs are going to come from if not from mass layoffs?

That and breaking the pension promises given to the generations of employees who worked at those companies and depend on those pensions.
posted by winna at 7:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


government money is makin' it rain for research
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"airbrush history" = "lie like a rug"
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 7:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


5 minutes left.......

well this event was pretty stupid. romney is at a his flail threshold, but its pretty much too late. Unless Obama gets a major zinger in there its just going to be a draw weighted toward Obama.
posted by lampshade at 7:27 PM on October 22, 2012


Ok let's end this. Isn't it time for closing now?
posted by rmless at 7:27 PM on October 22, 2012


Bury me on a pyre of spent wine boxes tell them I was a good man
posted by The Whelk at 7:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [21 favorites]


And Romney has rebooted.
posted by fzx101 at 7:27 PM on October 22, 2012


YES MITTENS

PEOPLE WHO YOU FIRED ARE STILL LOOKING FOR JOBS

GTFO
posted by elizardbits at 7:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Bob: "Actually Governor Romney you did say 'Let Detroit Go Bankrupt."
posted by Flashman at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012


"The policies of the last four years..." were responsible for saving us from the Great Recession, not tanking the world economy like the policies of the Republican plutocrats.
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


YOU MET THEM WHEN YOU FIRED THEM DICKBAG
posted by elizardbits at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Anyone know what the Romneys drive?
posted by Thistledown at 10:26 PM on October 22 [+] [!]


Ann drives a couple of Cadillacs!
posted by giraffe at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012


More people on food stamps because WE DON'T SUPPORT STARVING THE POOR....
SAY IT
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Ooh time for fake people stories!
posted by rmless at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I want to smack that faux-concern off Mitt's face.
posted by Theta States at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012


Damnit 4 years from now we better freaking have realtime fact checking. The moderator better google whatever is under debate, or admin assistants better google it, and within 3 minutes, like an instant replay review, we'd better have who is right and who is wrong. Come on, we live in the 21st century.
posted by cashman at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [25 favorites]


NO NOT THIS AGAIN I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE TIME TO BE FREE OF THIS ANECDOTE ABOUT THIS MYSTERIOUS LADY IN PHILLY MAKE IT STOP RESEARCH NEW FAKE PEOPLE
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012


The Whelk: "Bury me on a pyre of spent wine boxes tell them I was a good man"

HE WAS AN AWFUL MAN WHO DRANK SCOPE MOUTHWASH BY THE GALLON.
posted by boo_radley at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


Romneybot: When failing.....must.....remember....talk.....about......jobs
posted by triggerfinger at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012


"I love teachers." Well, Mitt, I can say with some surety that most teachers do not love you.
posted by smirkette at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I saw someone sad once! My wife saw someone weeping!
posted by mynameisluka at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


and he's crashing again. uh ah jobs! four years closer to nuclear bomb. jobs teachers federal...loving teachers.
posted by fzx101 at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012


Mostly worthless moderator.
posted by Pudhoho at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romeny is making some vocal points here at the end. Some were decent retorts (soundbite-wise anyway). I wish this would have ended about 10 minutes ago.

Obama: Use your lifeline, mention companies by name.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm Hot for Teacher!
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:28 PM on October 22, 2012


WE ALL LOVE TEACHERS
posted by The Whelk at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Hey, jetlagaddict, as a government scientist lemme tell ya...it's more like a trickle in this club than a tropical storm.
posted by wintermind at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Make America attractive, put some lipstick on Alabama, iron Oregon's suit.
posted by cashman at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Fuck you Schieffer.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I LOVE TEACHERS
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012


I LOVE TEACHERS BA-ABUP-BLUP PRIVATE SECTOR.
posted by boo_radley at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


NYT: Let Detroit Go Bankrupt
Editorial by Mitt Romney, Published: November 18, 2008
posted by zarq at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [18 favorites]


Here Mitt is again with this "I met a young woman" and "Ann met someone" bullshit, WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? They sound made up.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Tonight: "I've met unemployed people."
Last debate: "I've sat across the table from unemployed people."

"I think we all love teachers!"

BOO-YA!
posted by Room 641-A at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm hoping 4 years from now it's just a straight-up Jeopardy game.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


I hate that friggin' laugh...
posted by HuronBob at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Is the coughing level really ramping up out in the audience, or is that just me?
posted by jinjo at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012


SHOVEL HOT TAR DOWN MY LYING GULLET BLUH BLUP HUH HUH HHHUHH
posted by boo_radley at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012


hisssssssss
posted by elizardbits at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012


Other than the Olympics, these debates are the stupidest things to happen every four years. Why do I do this to myself each time?!
posted by barnacles at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


My loathing for Mitt Romney approaches in intensity my loathing for George W Bush, even if for mostly different reasons.

I literally cannot believe half of America thinks this guy is worthy to be their president. It boggles my mind. How is that even possible?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [42 favorites]


Did he just laugh in the face of Obama while he was saying his final word?

If so, "ASSHOLE".
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012


oh I don't like that Romney gets the last word
posted by triggerfinger at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012


STOP SAYING YOU LOVE TEACHERS, YOU LOVE GREECE, YOU LOVE MILITARY PEOPLE, godDAMN what an absolute EMPTY SUIT.

I swear the Republicans are hell-bent on making the office of the President look like ANYONE CAN GET THERE.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Is Obama echoing or have I had too much beer?
posted by Dr. Send at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2012


I think we all love to SHUT THE HELL UP
posted by trunk muffins at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2012


Prepare to hear more about Iran
posted by Pyry at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2012


"I think we all love teachers."

I withdraw all my snarky thoughts, Mr. Schieffer, you're alright by me.
posted by Kattullus at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Good framing by Obama on his final statement. Highlighting that the whole mess was started by past policies and saying what he wants to do.
posted by ersatz at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


If y'all had had my 10th grade gym teacher, you wouldn't say you love all teachers.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Last word AGAIN?!
posted by O Blitiri at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama is ACTUAL hissing
posted by ninjew at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2012


I hate it when Romney gives me a look like he is telling me something I don't know, but it is something really dumb like when he keeps saying "currency manipulation" really slow.
posted by Ad hominem at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2012


We all love teachers! On this, we can agree.

Well, as long as they're not lazy, crappy, underperforming losers who strike because they hate America. Not those teachers.
posted by Superplin at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Mitt Romney loves teachers, but earlier tonight he was attacking them. He also won't help states hire more.
posted by humanfont at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2012


More from The Corner:
jimgeraghty Romney's laugh about "too many TV commercials" made me laugh out loud.
18 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

charlescwcooke Good that Romney gets to sum up the three debates.
26 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

kathrynlopez was really hoping for an international religious freedom round tonight.
42 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

DanFosterNRO BINDERS
45 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

DanFosterNRO ROMNEY HAS BINDERS FULL OF TEACHERS
47 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

DanFosterNRO <>
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012


Did Obama lose every coin toss of the debates? He never went first or closed last did he?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Did he just laugh in the face of Obama while he was saying his final word?

He laughed at the "way too many TV commercials" line.
posted by King Bee at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012


Artistic representation of tonight's debate (drawn by me, with assistance by Yeti Imperial stout)
posted by hellojed at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


That mysterious young woman in Philadelphia also whipped a battery at Mitt's head, but he never shares that part of the story.
posted by gladly at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


"I was...Anne was with a woman who was weeping because she lost her job."

Oh man. A name? A job? Any details to convince me this really happened and it wasn't just Ann firing the maid? Go back to telling valve stories, Mitt, you are better at anecdotes that don't involve humans.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


Good response to Obama on the undecided voter knobby thing.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney closing statement: I'm a motherfucker.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012


there is actually peace in this country, that's a nice thing we do have
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012


From Romney's NYT "bankrupt" op-ed: Bankruptcy "would permit the companies to shed excess labor."
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Listening to Romney speak is even more painful tonight. He's so breathless and anxious, it's like I vicariously don't get a chance to breathe when he's speaking.
posted by meese at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"good to be with you"? Is he giving an introduction again?
posted by boo_radley at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Final statements. I'm preparing to hate David Brooks yet again.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I swear the Republicans are hell-bent on making the office of the President look like ANYONE CAN GET THERE.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 19:29 on October 22 [+] [!]
I don't want to be rude, but I think that point was proved in 2000.
posted by wintermind at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Obama nailed his closing statement. Absolutely nailed it.
posted by vibrotronica at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Obama closed last in the second debate.
posted by Andrhia at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012


The carpet is the best place to lie down with your wine box yes this plan is the best plan yes
posted by The Whelk at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]


Romney flat lined on the undecided voter knobby thing.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012


I wanna hear more about those valves!
posted by Dr. Send at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


I just muted Romney, damn that felt good.
posted by HuronBob at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney better not ever go to Greece without an army...

He's going to get his ass so kicked.
posted by Skygazer at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Guys I love teachers so much that I want to break up their union so that they can love me as much as I love them economy five points I know what it takes
posted by rmless at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Mitt learned how to get along with the Democrats of Massachusetts.

Mostly by leaving.
posted by maryr at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


hellojed, I'm very interested in the kawaii cabinet of which you draw.
posted by barnacles at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Those trendlines are really tanking. Could Obama retake Florida??
posted by blurker at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I KNOW WHAT IT TAKES HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU PEONS
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Food Stamp rations are people!
posted by Room 641-A at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2012


That mysterious young woman in Philadelphia also whipped a battery at Mitt's head, but he never shares that part of the story.

robots need batteries tho
posted by ninjew at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


If our nation is the hope of the earth, wow, the planet is FUCKED.
posted by smirkette at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Tooooooooorch
posted by The Whelk at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


jetlagaddict: we have constant, low-level warfare all over the country, and a truly ridiculous number of people in prison. This is not a peaceful country.
posted by Malor at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh man, the CNN opinion meter flatlined for Romney's closing remarks, but loved Obama's.
posted by Theta States at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt once again lies about his bipartisan record in Massachusetts.
posted by wierdo at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]




I want to see The Whelk do a slow waltz in a ratty bathrobe with his wine box. I'll pay good money for this.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


"This nation is the hope of this earth"

what the hell? the hope of universal access to doritos, maybe
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


FoxNews headline in about 5 minutes: President wasn't calm, attacked too much
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney is totally flubbing it.
posted by deanklear at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney's won more tosses overall.

he is the best tosser
posted by elizardbits at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [30 favorites]


Mitt: "This nation is the hope of the earth.........."

Thanks Mitt....all I can say is....."Sham-Wow'
posted by lampshade at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney got NO love from the undecided voters.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Make me the President, pleaaaaaase!
posted by ersatz at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012


'I'll lead you in an open and honest way.'

Oh I have to giggle hollowly with a great bitterness.
posted by winna at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The carpet is the best place to lie down with your wine box yes this plan is the best plan yes

"Oh thank you toilet bowl for being so cool on the side..."
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Glad to see him acknowledging that he's not part of the greatest anything.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012


The...the hope of the Earth?
posted by wintermind at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


wait someone said doritos
posted by elizardbits at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romeny closing: I want to be your president.

Won't happen jackass, go fuck a Hedge Fund, you robotic tool.
posted by Skygazer at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


I really thought he was going to pull that "When I'm president" line again in his closing.
posted by ceribus peribus at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


So Romney ended up copying David Cameron's "I met a X once" election debate tactics.
posted by Wordshore at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012


Bob, you sucked.
posted by barnacles at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


hope of the earth? that's embarrassing.
posted by mudpuppie at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012


The hope of the Earth? The Earth was hoping you guys would talk about climate change.
posted by homunculus at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [23 favorites]


"We'll work with good Democrats, and good Republicans"

=

'Anyone who doesn't work with us is a bad person'
posted by jiawen at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


"Good job, Bob."
posted by Room 641-A at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012


NYT: Let Detroit Go Bankrupt
Editorial by Mitt Romney, Published: November 18, 2008


"The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk."

Not sure that's exactly what he said but wtf do I know?
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012



Obama closed the second Presidential debate, but yes: Romney's won more tosses overall.


Well he would know all about being a tosser.
posted by Freon at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I LOVE WATCHING THEM FAKE SMILE AT ONE ANOTHER
posted by elizardbits at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


GOOD JOB OBAMA!! clapclapclap
posted by triggerfinger at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012


jetlagaddict: we have constant, low-level warfare all over the country, and a truly ridiculous number of people in prison. This is not a peaceful country.

Somehow, I feel like Romney isn't the guy to fix the drug war and broken private prison systems, no.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


What's this "hope of the earth" stuff? Is this some kind of dominionist dogwhistle?
posted by asperity at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


I worked out what it is when Romney's tone pushes the "sounding presidential" button in my brain.

It's because his voice sounds a bit like Martin Sheen's.

Goddamn TV-rotted brain.
posted by Pallas Athena at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"The greatest generation" – the last generation to bravely stand up and fight against hippies, the civil rights movement, and children in Viet Nam.
posted by koeselitz at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


what is up with all these wives and familys?
posted by rebent at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012


Agh awkward patting
posted by mynameisluka at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012


Hey, big phony chummy smiles.
posted by figurant at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2012


there are TOO MANY ROMNEYS!
posted by rebent at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


What the heck? Are those all his children?
posted by Flashman at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2012


HAHAH It is wonderful to grasp your hand and laugh at your platitudes HA HA HA
posted by boo_radley at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Thanks again MetaFilter.
posted by Sailormom at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney wins because more family on stage.

Tag wins because he goes for suckerpunch TKO on Obama.

We lose because the country has come to this sort of thing being the best we can expect.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's so cute when Obama leans down to talk to kids!
posted by cashman at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Mitt got kinda video dating service at the end there.

I'm going to go read stories about Clint and Couldon being boyfriends.
posted by The Whelk at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Is the guy who said he'd like to punch Obama up on stage with him now?
posted by Flunkie at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


OH NO TAGG DONT PUNCH HIM
posted by ninjew at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


I love how Romney is surrounded by adults and Obama is talking to kids after the debate.

There's something to be gained from those images.
posted by hippybear at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


Obama to Tag "So you're the shitass that wanted to punch me?"
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


I just realized that the Romneys have their young kids/grandkids onstage, but Sasha and Malia haven't attended any debate.
posted by girlmightlive at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012


CBS says Romney moderated his rhetoric, did not go for jugular.
posted by maryr at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012


I would totally wear the dress the First Lady is wearing. I wouldn't look nearly as good in it though...
posted by dejah420 at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney is as red as a fire truck during the awkward after talk.
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Blonde kiddo Romney is the best Romney.
posted by ersatz at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


It is so foolish of me to watch the debate on CNN. Somehow I forget how annoying it is to hear Wolf Blitzer's mealy-mouthed summation at the end. What a hack.
posted by wabbittwax at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


I'm watching cspan and they have the phone numbers up:

202-555-0001 Obama Supporters
202-555-0002 Romney Supporters
202-628-0205 CRAZY PEOPLE
posted by cashman at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


My wife sez:

Bob: Final words, Governor Romney?
Governor Romney: FEED ME A STRAY CAT.
posted by boo_radley at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [39 favorites]


Romney presented well in his closing, but overall he was weak in this debate, while having a few shining moments.

Obama was tough, forceful and direct, a little too much at times, but it was what was needed from his side and he accomplished that very well.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


hellojed, I'm very interested in the kawaii cabinet of which you draw.

Suddenly, I am too.
posted by hellojed at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


CBS just said Obama won.
posted by zarq at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh my god, what on earth is Candy Crowley talking about. Mitt Romney's surgical precision?
posted by mynameisluka at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012


Wow everyone looks so HAPPY.
posted by zardoz at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012


At least we made it without having to hear "children of the same God" yet again.
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


AMERICA IS THE HOPE OF THE EARTH

OCTOBER SURPRISE: THERE IS A METEOR HEADED FOR EARTH, ONLY AMERICAN HERO BRUCE WILLIS CAN STOP IT
posted by shakespeherian at 7:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Lol Chris Matthews - "Any jackass can talk about bombing Iran...."
posted by triggerfinger at 7:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


CBS says Romney moderated his rhetoric, did not go for jugular.

Just his own wrists, then?
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:37 PM on October 22, 2012


C-SPAN Romney supporter caller complains about the moderator.
posted by wierdo at 7:37 PM on October 22, 2012


Vote on Cnn.com poll at bottom of page, search for "quick vote".
posted by Theta States at 7:37 PM on October 22, 2012


What the heck? Are those all his children?

If each generation of Romneys mutiplies exponentially, they should be able to run a candidate who can win a majority just from voting family members eventually.
posted by figurant at 7:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


It looked like that small boy wanted to be held by Obama, but someone snatched him away!
posted by Malice at 7:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Oh my god, what on earth is Candy Crowley talking about. Mitt Romney's surgical precision?

Candy Crowley or Monica Crowley? I can see that from the latter, but it's just weird from the former.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:37 PM on October 22, 2012


Flunkie: "Is the guy who said he'd like to punch Obama up on stage with him now?"

"Hey Tag, I hear you got beef with me. Well, I hope you packed a lunch."
posted by boo_radley at 7:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


I'll say one thing for the Romneys, they're all attractive people
posted by ninjew at 7:37 PM on October 22, 2012


I wonder if all the talking heads will call this one a near draw?
posted by 3200 at 7:38 PM on October 22, 2012


CBS suggests that Romney did not press on Libya attacks because of his misfire in 2nd debate.
posted by maryr at 7:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


My wife sez: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[School has been rough on her recently so I'm stuck being the pillow that can't move until she startles herself awake]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


It takes balls to go right into the middle of the Romney clan and smile and meet them and be THE PRESIDENT.
posted by Skygazer at 7:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


If each generation of Romneys mutiplies exponentially...

I think Iain Banks calls these "Aggressive Hegemonizing Swarms."
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [16 favorites]


Huh? America is the hope of the Earth? Thought America was the hope of Kolob? Or Kolob was the hope of America? Or the Earth? Or something. Confused.
posted by Wordshore at 7:39 PM on October 22, 2012


Candy Crowley or Monica Crowley? I can see that from the latter, but it's just weird from the former.

Candy. She talked about how Mitt read as a surgeon/doctor whose first directive was "do no harm."
posted by mynameisluka at 7:39 PM on October 22, 2012


until she startles herself awake

yell PRESIDENT ROMNEY in her ear
posted by twist my arm at 7:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [14 favorites]


I'll say one thing for the Romneys, they're all attractive people

In that creepy Mormon clone kind of way, yes.

c.f. The Osmonds
posted by hippybear at 7:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Can we just do away with closing statements entirely next time? I really don't like how the last candidate can just say whatever the fuck without a rebuttal, and how both candidates can just go into stump speech mode. Doesn't matter if it's "my team" or not that gets the last word, I don't like it either way.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Okay, now the Giants just need to wrap it up and I can stop vicariously wearing myself out.
posted by smirkette at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


ninjew: "I'll say one thing for the Romneys, they're all attractive people especially that little boy wtf"

They're made to wear molds during their formative years, much like Buddha Pears, but for jawlines and cleft chins.
posted by boo_radley at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


RESULTS OF CNN'S QUICK VOTE:
Obama 0% 0
Romney 0% 0
Total votes: 0
This is not a scientific poll
posted by shakespeherian at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [21 favorites]


Apparently it's a phrase from a speech of Abraham Lincoln's?

Fellow-citizens, we cannot escape history. We of this Congress and this administration, will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance, or insignificance, can spare one or another of us. The fiery trial through which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the latest generation. We say we are for the Union. The world will not forget that we say this. We know how to save the Union. The world knows we do know how to save it. We -- even we here -- hold the power, and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free -- honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth. Other means may succeed; this could not fail. The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just -- a way which, if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless.
posted by winna at 7:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


CSPAN is still a magnet for a...certain kind of caller.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


David Brooks complaining about Obama being too "mean". Shut up, Brooks.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


David Brooks on PBS: I thought the Horses and Bayonets comment was condescending.
posted by Skygazer at 7:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Poll: Alright folks - one of our last polls. Who won?
Romney by a lot (18%)
Obama by a lot (54%)
Romney by a little (15%)
Obama by a little (14%)
by Steve Krakauer, CNN 10:29 AM

posted by Defying Gravity at 7:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


I could watch replays of the "horses and bayonets" line all night.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


it's a phrase from a speech of Abraham Lincoln's
Good lord, is Romney no Abraham Lincoln. Stealing from the best, though, I guess.
posted by smirkette at 7:42 PM on October 22, 2012


Yay! I got polled!
posted by gladly at 7:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Kiron Skinner was on AlJazeera English actually choking on spin. So now they have Tom Ridge.
posted by classa at 7:42 PM on October 22, 2012


Slight movement in the main Obama vs Romney spread betting market, but not much.
posted by Wordshore at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


it's a phrase from a speech of Abraham Lincoln's

Governor, Abraham Lincoln was a friend of mine and you're no Jack Kennedy!
posted by mazola at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


So Romney basically said "I'd do what Obama is doing, but the last 4 years have been a disaster".

Scary thing is, I think it might work.
posted by fullerine at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


well, time to turn off the pundits again for a the next couple of weeks.

Now, time to get back to some serious politics............Yosemite Sam - "Wild and Woolly Hare"
posted by lampshade at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Candy Crowley is under attack from the right for her "partisan" fact-checking last debate; she's covering her bases by being courteous to Romney, I guess?
posted by Pallas Athena at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


some of my best friends are teachers!
posted by suedehead at 7:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wow, even the Republicans on CNN concede Obama won and are only going so far as to spin it as "he didn't melt down."
posted by wierdo at 7:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Huh? America is the hope of the Earth? Thought America was the hope of Kolob? Or Kolob was the hope of America? Or the Earth? Or something. Confused.

The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace. A self-contained world five miles long, located in neutral territory. A place of commerce and diplomacy for a quarter of a million humans and aliens. A shining beacon in space . . . all alone in the night.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]


I just realized that the Romneys have their young kids/grandkids onstage, but Sasha and Malia haven't attended any debate.

I imagine they're in school, as they should be.
posted by padraigin at 7:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


David Brooks on PBS: I thought the Horses and Bayonets comment was condescending.

I thought that was OK, but the "we have ships you land planes on: aircraft carriers" came off a little smarmy to me, but as Obama was sitting next to the emperor of smarm, I don't think it'll matter much in the final analysis.
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Somehow the CNN spin seems to be that Romney is the peace candidate who represents hope and change? Holy shit. It's not every day you see the cotton candy being spun in the moment.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:45 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Oh why do I subject myself to the C-span phone loons?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:45 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I imagine they're in school, as they should be.

Republicans don't hold with that book learnin
posted by elizardbits at 7:45 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Some kindly soul made a gif of the tally me bananas gesture!
posted by winna at 7:45 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Go vote. It makes you feel big and strong.
posted by triggerfinger at 7:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


@BrentBozell: Something is wrong with Romney tonight. He's refusing to challenge Obama's failed policies. He's sounding LIKE Obama. This is terrible.

Most recent tweet: Bad news for Romney: Poor performance, and lack of vision. Good news for Romney: No one knows; America had been put to sleep.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:46 PM on October 22, 2012


Goodnight, MeFi. Remember that we need a a strong election thread and if you elect me, I will provide this thread. I know how to do it.
posted by ersatz at 7:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Power move: Obama gives Tag a hug.
posted by humanfont at 7:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I imagine they're in school, as they should be.

They send kids to school at night in D.C.?
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:46 PM on October 22, 2012




Ari Fleischer on CNN (Republican talking head) said it was pretty much a draw, but Obama did pretty good, but it doesn't really matter because it was about foreign policy and the only thing Americans care about is the economy now.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2012


he looks shook, s0n.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Obama giving Tag Romney a hug is a nice gesture on the president's part.
posted by maryr at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


They send kids to school at night in D.C.?

They don't send their kids down to Florida on a school night. I wouldn't. Not with Grandma on deck.
posted by padraigin at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


David Brooks on PBS: I thought the Horses and Bayonets comment was condescending.
Yes, condescending. As if Mitt Romney didn't know that his "Navy smaller than 1916" line that he's been trumpeting nonstop is completely idiotic. Of course Mitt Romney knows that his "Navy smaller than 1916" line that he's been trumpeting nonstop is completely idiotic. Calling him out on it? For shame, Mr. President.
posted by Flunkie at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


One of my aphorisms is never take any commentator on military affairs or foreign policy seriously unless they've read Thucydides. Only one of the men on stage tonight gave any indication being even passingly familiar with The Peloponnesian War. That is the man I will vote for.
posted by ob1quixote at 7:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


The first Republican talking point is that Obama got spanked on the Apology Tour thing. Karl Rove tweeted it and others seem to be repeating it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:48 PM on October 22, 2012


Goodnight, MeFi. Remember that we need a a strong election thread and if you elect me, I will provide this thread. I know how to do it.

I'll buy you 12 million George Michaels.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


So where can I go online to vote and say Obama won??
posted by soundproof at 7:48 PM on October 22, 2012


I think that the Obamas simply don't exploit their girls for politics. Children don't need to be on that stage.
posted by Surfurrus at 7:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [16 favorites]


They send kids to school at night in D.C.?

No, but they had school today, presumably with homework, and they have school tomorrow.
posted by cooker girl at 7:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


They send kids to school at night in D.C.?

Small people should be in bed before this time of night.

In fact, I think technically my bedtime is still 8:30 pm, because my parents are strict.
posted by winna at 7:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


ooh attack the block is on

l8rs bruvs
posted by elizardbits at 7:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


To follow up on EMRJKC's point - even if they mean the Mediterranean, Iraq probably has some thoughts on Syria being Iran's route to the sea.
posted by maryr at 7:49 PM on October 22, 2012


padraigin: "I just realized that the Romneys have their young kids/grandkids onstage, but Sasha and Malia haven't attended any debate.

I imagine they're in school, as they should be.
"

I think they were at the first debate?

My daughter just asked where they were, too. I pointed out that they have school in the morning, as does she, so GET YOUR BEHIND UPSTAIRS, you've learned enough new curses from me tonight.

( I will admit that watching her dance around singing "Mitt Romney is a doucheface, Mitt Romney is a doucheface" was kind of funny and we struggled to keep straight faces.)
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [20 favorites]


Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a muppet.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 7:50 PM on October 22, 2012


You gotta wonder about a right-wing warmonger who avoided Vietnam by trying to convince the French to stop drinking wine, and who has five grown sons, of whom not a one has ever served in any branch of the military. I'm a diehard bleeding heart pacifist lefty with three sons, and one of mine served in the US army. Which one of us is the real murrican?
posted by mareli at 7:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [14 favorites]


Karl Rove tweeted it and others seem to be repeating it.

Just like they've done with every other thing he's put forward for the past 12 years.

He probably has Frank Luntz sitting next to him helping him compose his tweets at this very moment.
posted by hippybear at 7:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I think that the Obamas simply don't exploit their girls for politics.

Oh, I think there is a little of that, but it's not terribly egregious
posted by edgeways at 7:50 PM on October 22, 2012


Thanks, all.... Your company reassures me......
posted by HuronBob at 7:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


53-23-24, Obama-Romney-Tie in the CBS snap poll. Obama's trust on foreign policy and terrorism up dramatically from before the debate. Split on china.
posted by wierdo at 7:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I get it.
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:51 PM on October 22, 2012


To follow up on EMRJKC's point - even if they mean the Mediterranean, Iraq probably has some thoughts on Syria being Iran's route to the sea.

Syria is the least useful place on the map.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:52 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


I think they were at the first debate?

It's possible that they were on a fall break, and equally possible that the Romney kids are now. My kids had a five-day weekend last week for conferences.
posted by padraigin at 7:52 PM on October 22, 2012


Oh this gif is both horrifying and hypnotic. You will hate me if you click it.

BE WARNED
posted by winna at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [19 favorites]


Just like they've done with every other thing he's put forward for the past 12 years.

He probably has Frank Luntz sitting next to him helping him compose his tweets at this very moment.


Like a neocon version of Simon & Garfunkel.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


After all that, all the debates from the GOP candidate battles, through Perry and Santorum and Bachmann and Pawlenty and Cain, through these three debates, from Obama's snooze in Denver to tonite's aircraft carriers and horses and bayonets, my final summarising thought, hope, expectation even, is:

Mathowie/Jessamyn 2016

Goodnight, America. Sleep well.
posted by Wordshore at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Ugh, God, Ann has seen that look, can you imagine
posted by Countess Elena at 7:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


I literally have no idea what Romney would do on any issue as president, and I'm not just saying that as a partisan.
posted by empath at 7:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


Yeah, it just reminded me how small the Obama family is compared to the Romneys.
posted by girlmightlive at 7:54 PM on October 22, 2012


Well most Republican talking heads are claiming a draw which bodes well for Obama. I don't think it was a massive win for Obama because Romney just tried to play defense for 90 minutes but it's probably a weak win for Obama.

Kinda strange given that Obama clearly has the advantage in the EC moving forward but Romney seems committed to the base election strategy.
posted by vuron at 7:54 PM on October 22, 2012



Ugh, God, Ann has seen that look, can you imagine

And our good Countess has just upped the horrifying factor by about eighty. I just thought it made it clear he was a lizard people.
posted by winna at 7:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


There is a tiny, tiny part of me , the part that clicks on links labeled NSFL, that is curious to see what a Romney presidency would look like. How horrible would it be and would any of his Republican voters notice if he completely screwed things up. I'm hearing all these phone-ins say "We can't afford 4 more years of Obama" and I just want to scream at them, "Jesus Christ! You think the past 4 years are bad? 4 years of Romney would destroy us!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:55 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


I literally have no idea what Romney would do on any issue as president

fuck it up unimaginably, i expect
posted by elizardbits at 7:55 PM on October 22, 2012 [18 favorites]


I literally have no idea what Romney would do on any issue as president

Hold the pen; sign what Grover Norquist asks him to.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:56 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]


The America hope of the earth thing is an LDS thing
posted by atomicstone at 7:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


As usual, CNN's interaction with the "undecided voters" is giving me hives. CLICK. I shall rely on all of you to tell me what the polls say.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:57 PM on October 22, 2012


The supreme court is the reason why I'm terrified of an Romney win, chances are good that whoever wins this election will be able to pick 2 Supreme Court justices which could basically doom forward momentum on a whole host of issues.
posted by vuron at 7:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [15 favorites]


I'm not normally this kind of a girl, but I feel like I need to be honest with all of you tonight.

I kind of love Chris Matthews.

Is that wrong?

posted by triggerfinger at 7:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


8-0 bottom 7th
posted by asockpuppet at 7:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


winna, this one's better. :)
posted by zarq at 7:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy, please do not troll the election. Or, if you do, at least do it properly and vote for Ron Paul or Herman Cain.
posted by maryr at 7:58 PM on October 22, 2012


Yay, Romney voters on Facebook are complaining about the moderator, that means their guy lost.
posted by marxchivist at 7:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


George Pataki: "I never thought I'd quote the New York Times."

But then they said something I liked.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:59 PM on October 22, 2012


humanfont: "Power move: Obama gives Tag a hug."

Wouldn't you love to know what they whispered in each other's ear? As Obama drew Tag in, felt that sharp intake of breath... That moment of uncertainty on Tag's part; a clenching, rushing instinct, right on the verge of fight-or-flight as he extends his arms... And then the back slap, the smile, cheek-to-cheek and almost but not quite touching as Obama's eyes narrow and lock on to Tag's eyes... What did they say?
posted by boo_radley at 7:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]


As usual, CNN's interaction with the "undecided voters" is giving me hives.

Awesome for once! Unemployed guy who decided he'll stick with the President, woman who admitted rolling her eyes at Romney's pandering to teachers.
posted by sallybrown at 7:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


8-0 bottom 7th

13-0 3rd quarter.
posted by cashman at 7:59 PM on October 22, 2012


Nice apparently Obama crushed Romney in the CBS snappoll.
posted by vuron at 8:00 PM on October 22, 2012


empath: I literally have no idea what Romney would do on any issue as president, and I'm not just saying that as a partisan.

If I have taken one thing away from the ten long years I've been watching him politick, it's that I'm pretty sure that he'll wake up everyday with only one thing on his mind: "My hair should look great today."
posted by Kattullus at 8:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


That moment of uncertainty on Tag's part; a clenching, rushing instinct, right on the verge of fight-or-flight as he extends his arms...

oh god is it hot in here
posted by shakespeherian at 8:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]


Headline: Obama Takes Out Romney with Mid-Debate Drone Attack.
posted by ceribus peribus at 8:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


The America hope of the earth thing is an LDS thing

Well, no. It's way older than LDS. It started with John Winthrop and his "shining city on a hill" sermon at the founding of the Massachusettes Bay colonies. It's been echoed a lot across the years, including by Kennedy and Reagan.
posted by hippybear at 8:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Awesome for once! Unemployed guy who decided he'll stick with the President, woman who admitted rolling her eyes at Romney's pandering to teachers.

Shit, figures I'd tune out the minute it got good!
posted by mynameisluka at 8:01 PM on October 22, 2012


53-23-24, Obama-Romney-Tie in the CBS snap poll.

And the snap poll was apparently all (nominally) undecided voters, so that's extra good.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think what we learned tonight is that Obama is so damn good he convinced Romney.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [28 favorites]


I remember reading somewhere that, as collective organizations go, people in the State Department have contributed one of the highest amounts to the Obama campaign, next to Microsoft and UCal system or something.

That tells me more about where US should be going, foreign policy wise, than another bout of American Gladiators In Chief- The World Edition
posted by the cydonian at 8:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


CNN's poll showed up for a bit there and was showing 70%+ Obama, but now it's back to all zeroes.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:02 PM on October 22, 2012


Obama's really helped with his incumbency in this debate, I think. All I can think is, "well, he's actually done this."
posted by girlmightlive at 8:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Obama punches Romney....
posted by HuronBob at 8:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Obama is so damn good he convinced Romeny.

that should go in the stump speech
posted by twist my arm at 8:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


I kind of love Chris Matthews.

Is that wrong?


Absolutely not.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:03 PM on October 22, 2012


I just want to say, for note, that bayonets are very much still issued to modern soldiers.
One of my aphorisms is never take any commentator on military affairs or foreign policy seriously unless they've read Thucydides. Only one of the men on stage tonight gave any indication being even passingly familiar with The Peloponnesian War. That is the man I will vote for.
Obama knows to never get surrounded on Sphacteria.
posted by Jehan at 8:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


CNN is replaying Obama's smackdown of Romney's "You didn't visit Israel" attack. Even more awkward for Mitt the second time around.

Blitzer, of course, says "Both candidates showing their glowing support for Isreal."

You have missed the point, Wolf.
posted by Panjandrum at 8:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


shakespeherian: "oh god is it hot in here"

oh no i think its just mitt
posted by boo_radley at 8:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Over on Fox, Shep was recounting a tweet by a Marine stating that the Marines still use bayonets and said Obama was being untruthful when he said "we have fewer horses and bayonets". How unsurprising. If you can't come up with an actual fact check, just make shit up. It's a wonder they manage to survive up there on bullshit mountain.
posted by wierdo at 8:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I missed most of this debate. How did Obama refer to Thucydides?
posted by koeselitz at 8:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The point is that everyone thinks Israel is totally dreamy and they both write 'Barack Israel' and 'Mitt Israel' respectively in loopy cursive on their trapper keepers
posted by shakespeherian at 8:05 PM on October 22, 2012 [13 favorites]


haha holy shit prosceco is a serious stealth drunk. It's like Visual Champagne Plus Plus.
posted by boo_radley at 8:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


Lawrence O'Donnell: "You played Mitt Romney in the debate--"
John Kerry: The exorcism is next week.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [12 favorites]


What up, Leffe Brun in the house!!!! YAY DEBATE THREADS, YOU HATES MY LIVER!
posted by Theta States at 8:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


on their trapper keepers

on their david ben gurion trapper keepers
posted by elizardbits at 8:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


How unsurprising. If you can't come up with an actual fact check, just make shit up.

The height of 2012 Republican word play was taking "You didn't build that" out of context. It shouldn't surprise anyone that they don't understand metaphors.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The point is that everyone thinks Israel is totally dreamy and they both write 'Barack Israel' and 'Mitt Israel' respectively in loopy cursive on their trapper keepers binders full of women
posted by mynameisluka at 8:07 PM on October 22, 2012


How did Obama refer to Thucydides?

"Governor, I knew Thucydides. Thucydides was a friend of mine. You are no Thucydides."
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Just in case CNN's poll goes down again...

75% Obama/25% Romney
posted by jason_steakums at 8:08 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


BIG BIRD

BINDERS

BAYONETS

ROMNEY 2012
posted by The Whelk at 8:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [20 favorites]


Fuck, he could win on that slogan.
posted by mazola at 8:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Re the visit to Israel, I was surprised that Obama never got back to the point I thought he was going to make, that he seemed to be teeing up, which was that when Romney went to Israel it was with a plane full of lobbyists, and was dedicated to fund-raising dinners and glad-handling.
posted by Flashman at 8:10 PM on October 22, 2012




haha holy shit prosceco is a serious stealth drunk. It's like Visual Champagne Plus Plus.

"I don't touch champagne. That stuff is HANGOVER FUEL."

-My Mom.
posted by The Whelk at 8:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


So, Kudlow (with Fox?) said Romney was on Valium?
posted by terrierhead at 8:11 PM on October 22, 2012


At least it's not tequila, which gets you drunk like you took money from it.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:11 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


John Kerry: That was young Egyptians with their tweets, and their ability to Google.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:12 PM on October 22, 2012




plz don't say the T word
posted by elizardbits at 8:12 PM on October 22, 2012


plz don't say the T word

Thucydides?
posted by homunculus at 8:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Hannity just called the president "petulant and childish". And their Florida focus group admits that Obama did well on foreign policy, but the election was about economics.
posted by FJT at 8:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


HA HA

BREAK DANCE
posted by shakespeherian at 8:12 PM on October 22, 2012


Secret Life of Gravy, please do not troll the election

Not for all the bayonets in China.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


shakespeherian, I'm not sure if you're talking about prosecco, champagne or valium but I endorse the sentiment either way.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:12 PM on October 22, 2012


TONIGHT WE WITNESSED AN ELEPHANT ATTEMPTING TO MATE WITH A DONKEY

NOW THE THRILLING CONCLUSION

GIRAFFE BIRTH LIVE 2012
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Dammit, you guys. Stop being witty and interesting and stuff. I need to go to bed.
posted by cooker girl at 8:12 PM on October 22, 2012


T...equila shots?
posted by twist my arm at 8:13 PM on October 22, 2012


Yeah we still have bayonets but let's be honest if you ever get in a situation where you have to fix bayonets for a charge or you are defending yourself with a melee weapon, shit has gone serious south.

The idea that we need to substantially increase the size of our navy is pretty ludicrous. We already have a large number of carrier battlegroups and a ridiculous number of fast attack and boomer subs. I mean if we actually need a navy for a conflict with China in the South China sea, we pretty much are completely screwed regardless.
posted by vuron at 8:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Joey Michaels: " It shouldn't surprise anyone that they don't understand metaphors."

That's the thing, it's even worse. Obama simply did not say that we had no horses or bayonets in our military, he said that we have fewer than we once did. At least in the "you didn't build that" case there was arguably ambiguous grammar. In this case, there was no ambiguity.
posted by wierdo at 8:14 PM on October 22, 2012



plz don't say the T word

the last time I used the T word I was strapped to a rolling office chair with duct tape and sent down a hill at 3AM in Poughkipsbee, NY
posted by The Whelk at 8:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I say we let him go
posted by shakespeherian at 8:14 PM on October 22, 2012


RE: Bayonets

Google search for "last major bayonet charge" turns up this guy, who lead the charge in the Korean War. He also apparently enlisted in the US Army in 1940, then deserted in 1941 to the Canadian Army, because the US was too slow getting involved in WWII.
posted by Panjandrum at 8:15 PM on October 22, 2012


BAYONETS ARE EFFECTIVE AGAINST ZOMBIES WHAT DOES MITT KNOW?
posted by The Whelk at 8:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The CNN snap poll is 48O - 40R.
posted by Justinian at 8:15 PM on October 22, 2012


CNN's snap poll saying 48% Obama 40% Romney.
posted by SomaSoda at 8:15 PM on October 22, 2012


Dammit, you guys. Stop being witty and interesting and stuff. I need to go to bed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:15 PM on October 22, 2012


The idea that we need to substantially increase the size of our navy is pretty ludicrous. We already have a large number of carrier battlegroups and a ridiculous number of fast attack and boomer subs. I mean if we actually need a navy for a conflict with China in the South China sea, we pretty much are completely screwed regardless.

The USA has more aircraft carriers than the rest of the developed world combined.

The question I, as a foreigner, ask myself is "Who the fuck do you people intend to start a war against?"
posted by Talez at 8:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


CNN poll of registered voters across the spectrum:
Obama won: 48%
Romney won: 40%

Wolf gives caveat that more Republicans watch the debates than Democrats (really?)
posted by sallybrown at 8:16 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


For the Michigan/Detroit crew... I present Springsteen..
posted by HuronBob at 8:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Who the fuck do you people intend to start a war against?"

ANYONE WHO DOESN'T THINK WE'RE LIKE TOTALLY STRONG AND BUFF


RIIIIIIPED SICK MAN USA USA USA
posted by The Whelk at 8:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


And then the back slap, the smile, cheek-to-cheek and almost but not quite touching as Obama's eyes narrow and lock on to Tag's eyes... What did they say?

"OHH... YOU TOUCH MY TRA-LA-LA"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Who the fuck do you people intend to start a war against?"

why, u got some oil bro
posted by twist my arm at 8:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [22 favorites]


The question I, as a foreigner, ask myself is "Who the fuck do you people intend to start a war against?"

Loki.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


My daughter just asked what she would have to do to run for president. What say you, MetaFilter?
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 8:17 PM on October 22, 2012


East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: ""OHH... YOU TOUCH MY TRA-LA-LA""

Fun Boo radley fact: I have this CD. Bought it when it first came out. Came with a condom.
posted by boo_radley at 8:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Take Two:
Dammit, you guys. Stop being witty and interesting and stuff. I need to go to bed.

Ha ha! I'm already in bed! which is a good thing because I appear to be a bit tiddly.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


1. be a gazillionaire
posted by twist my arm at 8:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Someone tweeted: In '04 Bush lost all three debates; this race is just about as close as that one.

It would be tragic if any Obama supporters decided he won tonight and so doesn't need people to get out and vote.
posted by Surfurrus at 8:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I just want to say, for note, that bayonets are very much still issued to modern soldiers.

The US army has not issued bayonets to soldiers in Afghanistan, nor did it in Iraq. The US military's last bayonet charge was in 1951, in Korea.
posted by humanfont at 8:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


My daughter just asked what she would have to do to run for president. What say you, MetaFilter?

Well, I'll canvass.
posted by mrgoat at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2012


"My daughter just asked what she would have to do to run for president."

Post this in AskMe..... really, it would be a great thread, but the question will get lost here....
posted by HuronBob at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Look, here's Romney's plan:

1. Cut everyone's taxes by 20%
2. Up the defense budget by 2 trillion
3. It won't cost the government a dime!
4. We'll figure it out after the election

So all Obama has to say is, fuck it, let's make it 100%, up the defense budget by 2 quadrillion, and while we're at it, everyone gets ATVs and blowjobs. Check and mate.
posted by fungible at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


BAYONETS.

BINDERS.

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA.

ROMNEY 2012
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2012 [14 favorites]


Talez, I think the general argument is that the carrier groups need to be able to provide a platform for providing air superiority in two theatres at the same time. I guess the assumption that in some conflicts the ability of the Air Force to successfully stage air superiority assets from ground bases is in some doubt.

I think the reliance on carrier groups is kinda outdated in the modern area of asymmetrical warfare but you aren't going to see a major abandonment of that bit of military strategy anytime soon.
posted by vuron at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2012


humanfont: "The US military's last bayonet charge was in 1951, in Korea."

Heard a TH on NPR saying the same about amphibious vehicles, which Mitt wants to buy a few dozen of.
posted by boo_radley at 8:21 PM on October 22, 2012


VOTE OR I WILL STAND OUTSIDE YOUR WINDOW STARING AT YOU JUST OUTSIDE THE CORNER OF YOUR EYE AND WHEN YOU TURN TO LOOK I'LL VANISH BEHIND A TREE.

I MEAN I WAS GOING TO DO THAT ANYWAY BUT IF YOU DON'T VOTE I'LL BE MAKING SUCH A JUDGMENTAL FACE.
posted by The Whelk at 8:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [22 favorites]


It would be tragic if any Obama supporters decided he won tonight and so doesn't need people to get out and vote.

I just signed up to help locally (making donations was too easy)... I suggest that everyone consider doing that....
posted by HuronBob at 8:21 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


The Whelk: "I MEAN I WAS GOING TO DO THAT ANYWAY BUT IF YOU DON'T VOTE I'LL BE MAKING SUCH A JUDGMENTAL FACE."

YOUR PRESIDENT OR YOUR HOA CHAIR, YOUR CHOICE!
posted by boo_radley at 8:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


SLENDERMAN/CANDLEJACK 2016
posted by elizardbits at 8:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


HuronBob: ""My daughter just asked what she would have to do to run for president."

Post this in AskMe..... really, it would be a great thread, but the question will get lost here....
"

Too tipsy right now ... someone MeMail me and I'll do it in the morning. With enough detail to make it not chatfilter!
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 8:22 PM on October 22, 2012


My daughter just asked what she would have to do to run for president. What say you, MetaFilter?

Start now.

Keep her record impeccable with nothing anyone can ever dig up about her and use against her 30 years from now.

Begin with school government and debate team.

Keep her grades up and get into an ivy league school.

Study law.

Do a lot of volunteerism in areas which give her a broad exposure of humanity, but never anything which might be controversial later. (Soup kitchens are okay, betterment of life issues for prostitutes, not so much.)

Learn to network with people who have Real Money.

Don't be afraid to let people know her goal and to take advice from people more powerful than her about how to get further along her path.

Mostly, be ambitious from this point forward and keep her eye on the prize.
posted by hippybear at 8:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [16 favorites]


I just signed up to help locally (making donations was too easy)... I suggest that everyone consider doing that....

I am going into the campaign office tomorrow! I think a lot of us did things in 2008 and have only donated this cycle. Well folks, its time we get off our butts and make this happen.
posted by cashman at 8:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Does anything other than Ohio matter for the next two weeks?
posted by chrismc at 8:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Hippybear, stop being all sensible and shit. You're making the rest of us look silly.
posted by Panjandrum at 8:24 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


O Canada!

Tweet by @1_Non_Blonde:
for a country that wants to lay pipes all over our land; strange no mention of #Canada or #cdnpoli in #debate2012
posted by Surfurrus at 8:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


(Soup kitchens are okay, betterment of life issues for prostitutes, not so much.)

Not a lot of optimism for our culture maturing in 30 years, eh?

Yeah, me neither.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


It would be tragic if any Obama supporters decided he won tonight and so doesn't need people to get out and vote.

Just to be clear, I'm voting. Though I think it's important to add that it was tragic that Obama completely phoned in the first debate and allowed Romney to generate the momentum that has made this such a close race.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


if you ever get in a situation where you have to fix bayonets for a charge or you are defending yourself with a melee weapon, shit has gone serious south.

Totally more moral and modern just to bomb people from drones, I know.
posted by Jimbob at 8:25 PM on October 22, 2012


Chrismc, basically the center of the battle is Ohio, there are paths to 270 that don't involve Ohio but they are pretty sketchy for both candidates. There is still a couple of non Ohio paths plus the dreaded 269-269 split but I think it's quite possible that Romney will win the popular vote and Obama will win the electoral vote.
posted by vuron at 8:26 PM on October 22, 2012


The consensus on Charlie Rose is that Romney didn't do as well as Obama, but the strategy seemed to be as coming off more easy going and in control so as to appeal to women more.

I'd extrapolate from that, that the Romney camp inner polls show they've hit a ceiling unless they can whittle down Obama's lead with women, also perhaps it was an effort to try and undo some of the "binders full of women" talk from the last debate.

Lot's of people (Tina Brown, Gwen Ifill, John Heileman) are making the observation of how many times ROmney used the word "Tumult" as people have here. Strangely I think I so sick of Romney I just half hear him at this point and don't remember him using that word at all.

All in all, I think this puts Obama in a decent place with tons of ammo to use against Romney on Detroit, on China, even on his poor understanding of the middle east and how bellicose he sounds in terms of Iran.

I'd feel more comfortable if and when the Gallup Poll begins to come back in line with the others and stops giving Romney this ridiculous 6 point lead.

Something seems really off there. (I hope.)
posted by Skygazer at 8:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


" someone MeMail me and I'll do it in the morning."

done..
posted by HuronBob at 8:27 PM on October 22, 2012


I think it's quite possible that Romney will win the popular vote and Obama will win the electoral vote.

Which, as many have said, would be a wonderful opportunity for a consensus to get rid of the Electoral College.
posted by Danf at 8:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, and Martha Radditz is on Charlie Rose if anyone is a big fan.
posted by Skygazer at 8:28 PM on October 22, 2012


And then the back slap, the smile, cheek-to-cheek and almost but not quite touching as Obama's eyes narrow and lock on to Tag's eyes... What did they say?
Who's your Daddy?
posted by islander at 8:29 PM on October 22, 2012


The last known bayonet assault might have been Basra, 2004:
A group of 20 British soldiers near Basra fought off an ambush by over 100 Mahdi fighters in Iraq, but eventually ran low on ammo. They then resorted to a fierce bayonet charge that killed 20 militiamen and compelled the rest to flee or surrender, with only three British soldiers injured.
posted by jjwiseman at 8:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Kawaii Cabinet
posted by hellojed at 8:31 PM on October 22, 2012


Talez, I think the general argument is that the carrier groups need to be able to provide a platform for providing air superiority in two theatres at the same time.

I'm pretty sure they reached that threshold four Nimitz class carriers and a USS Enterprise ago. The current US Navy could take on the G8 combined and win.
posted by Talez at 8:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]




"OHH... YOU TOUCH MY TRA-LA-LA"

Holy shit. I just last week put a Günther song on a mix CD for a friend (yes, that still happens) and I'll bet this is the first time he's ever been referenced w/r/t a U.S. presidential debate.

Brazil, however...
posted by psoas at 8:31 PM on October 22, 2012


Skygazer: "The consensus on Charlie Rose is that Romney didn't do as well as Obama, but the strategy seemed to be as coming off more easy going and in control so as to appeal to women more."

If that was his strategy, he failed. The PPP swing state snap poll shows Obama winning among women by 18 points, and men by 2.
posted by wierdo at 8:31 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm not a big fan of the Electoral College even if it's liable to save Obama's ass this year but I can't imagine it going away anytime soon. There are simply too many states with a clear incentive to retain the system for it to ever get past the requisite number of states even if it could get through Congress.
posted by vuron at 8:32 PM on October 22, 2012


MY FAVORITE PART OF THE DEBATE WAS MITT'S CLOSING STATEMENT

"LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY FELLOW AMERICANS... TODAY, AS IF DRAWN BY A MYSTERIOUS FORCE, I FOUND A SMALL PATCH OF EARTH, AND DUG A HOLE. THEREIN I FOUND THESE FIVE GOLDEN PLATES."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:32 PM on October 22, 2012 [10 favorites]


There are simply too many states with a clear incentive to retain the system for it to ever get past the requisite number of states even if it could get through Congress.

It doesn't need to get through Congress. The NPVIC kicks in as soon as 270 EVs sign up.
posted by Talez at 8:33 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


VOTE OR I WILL STAND OUTSIDE YOUR WINDOW STARING AT YOU JUST OUTSIDE THE CORNER OF YOUR EYE AND WHEN YOU TURN TO LOOK I'LL VANISH BEHIND A TREE.


THE BLAIR WHELK PROJECT


That's actually really scary...

I'm not getting any sleep anytime soon.

posted by Skygazer at 8:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


vuron, the cool thing is that you don't need a constitutional amendment to get rid of the EC.

Most of the states in the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact so far are the bluest of the blue, but if Obama wins this election while losing the popular vote, I bet you'll start to see some Southern and Western states popping up on that map.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]




Though I think it's important to add that it was tragic that Obama completely phoned in the first debate ...

I don't. I think Obama supporters needed a reality check. Having a candidate with a clear, factual, informed, intelligent and broad vision for peace and economic recovery is not enough. He can't do it alone.

How many times have we seen substance lose to style in America? The forces opposing progressive politics are organized, committed and monied. They know how to fight and they will fight viciously no matter how much they are shown to have muddled and dangerous ideas.
posted by Surfurrus at 8:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Lulu's Pink Converse: “My daughter just asked what she would have to do to run for president. What say you, MetaFilter?”

the most important thing for her to do right now is make sure she's born in the United States
posted by koeselitz at 8:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Don't knock the amphibious vehicles. Those Duck Boats are great for tourism.
posted by maryr at 8:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


The National Popular Vote thing is a trainwreck waiting to happen -- as far as I can tell, there's nothing to stop states from pulling out after the fact if they decide they prefer the results the other way...
posted by gerryblog at 8:35 PM on October 22, 2012


I'd also focus efforts on Virginia (very winnable!) and Florida (still within grasp, but uphill climb).
posted by Theta States at 8:35 PM on October 22, 2012


The US army has not issued bayonets to soldiers in Afghanistan, nor did it in Iraq. The US military's last bayonet charge was in 1951, in Korea.
Well by that measurement nuclear weapons are more obsolete than bayonets. That might actually be true, but the point still stands. Modern militaries still have bayonets, still train with them, and can still issue them. The bayonet is not obsolete in the way that the horse is. The US military will enact another bayonet charge long before another cavalry charge. Anyway, this is a silly argument.
"Governor, I knew Thucydides. Thucydides was a friend of mine. You are no Thucydides."
Obama is Pericles, Romney is Cleon. Sure, Pericles is a great statesman, but Cleon may surprise you, much to your dismay.
posted by Jehan at 8:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Power move: Obama gives Tag a hug.

Forget Tagg, has anyone seen Josh?
posted by homunculus at 8:36 PM on October 22, 2012


I don't know about that, maryr.
posted by wintermind at 8:37 PM on October 22, 2012


HuronBob: "I just signed up to help locally (making donations was too easy)... I suggest that everyone consider doing that...."


I would love to live in a country where I could do that, and not have it create fallout for my elementary aged kid. But I don't. I live in Texas.
posted by dejah420 at 8:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


Fewer. The phrase was fewer bayonets.
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 8:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


My daughter just asked what she would have to do to run for president. What say you, MetaFilter?

First, be smart from the very beginning.
posted by maryr at 8:39 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


but Cleon may surprise you, much to your dismay


TEAM ANTIGONE AND HER RIGHTEOUS RAGE
posted by The Whelk at 8:40 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


The bayonet is not obsolete in the way that the horse is.

Horses are used by the U.S. regularly in Afghanistan...
posted by one_bean at 8:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


MY ENEMY IS MY ENEMY, EVEN IN DEATH.

Yeah, I was Cleon in a play once. I didn't really know the context. I figured he was just, y'know, a Klingon.
posted by maryr at 8:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


THE BLAIR WHELK PROJECT

just hovering over you while you sleep.

"heeeeeeeey"

"go away"

"we should do shoooooooots"

"no"

"and talk about teeeeeen wolf"

*whimper*
posted by The Whelk at 8:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [20 favorites]


More from Charlie Rose:

John Heileman: The Romney camp probably think's it can keep making more improvements in the battleground states.

Mark Helprin: But Obama has a good floor (?) in the battleground states and and he's not hemorrhaging support at all (Hieleman nods vigorously at this), and Obama has the absolute stronger, state of the art, (light-years advanced from even their 2008 GOTV ground game) ground game in Ohio and the other battleground states.

Helprin also pointed out how early voting is going to be a huge advantage for Obama.


Everyone (Al Hunt, John Dickerson, Gwen Ifill etc...) is talking Obama's superior ground game now...
posted by Skygazer at 8:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I figured he was just, y'know, a Klingon.

I have a bold new idea for how to stage a greek drama festival.
posted by The Whelk at 8:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]




horsesandbayonets.tumblr.com is king of the internet for a day.
posted by Turkey Glue at 8:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


It started with John Winthrop and his "shining city on a hill" sermon at the founding of the Massachusettes Bay colonies. It's been echoed a lot across the years, including by Kennedy and Reagan.

Reagan's use of "city on a hill" had almost nothing to with Winthrop's meaning. Check out Sarah Vowell's The Wordy Shipmates for a great explanation.
posted by benito.strauss at 8:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Geek drama festival!
posted by saturday_morning at 8:44 PM on October 22, 2012


I have a bold new idea for how to stage a greek drama festival.

Oh hi you must be new to the internet.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:44 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


koeselitz: "Lulu's Pink Converse: “My daughter just asked what she would have to do to run for president. What say you, MetaFilter?”

the most important thing for her to do right now is make sure she's born in the United States
"

She was. But we have also established her Canadian citizenship (my husband was born in Canada of American citizens, and holds dual citizenship). We made sure to do that when she was born, as GWB was President, and we wanted to keep all options open for her. Would that be a problem?
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 8:45 PM on October 22, 2012


it's not the internet if you do it at Lincoln center
posted by The Whelk at 8:45 PM on October 22, 2012


You can tell Obama did well because the right wing media is not even trying to spin this as a Romney win:
Drudge: "Grand Finale" with photo of Obama looking tired, + new random scandals
National Review: 8 mini-headlines, most positive are "Focus-grouped Romney edges disainful Obama" and "Romney Should Be Pleased"
Fox:"Romney Pitches Foreign Policy Shift, As Obama Defends Record Abroad"
posted by msalt at 8:46 PM on October 22, 2012


(quickly rewrites Lysistrata to be about reactor cores)
posted by The Whelk at 8:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


UHURA IN AULIS
posted by The Whelk at 8:46 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I presume POTUS got in close to Tagg and said:

Now watch this drive, motherfucker.
posted by spitbull at 8:47 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


guys let's all talk about greek tragedy
posted by shakespeherian at 8:48 PM on October 22, 2012




Nuclear weapons are also useless. We should get rid of them.
posted by humanfont at 8:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


horsesandbayonets.tumblr.com


Holy crap, the internet is so mean.

But so so funny...



Houston, we have achieved meme velocity.

posted by Skygazer at 8:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


The point wasn't that there are NO bayonets or horses - we still use both - but that we need far fewer, because we have another century of war technology added to it.
posted by Miko at 8:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]


Right-wingers are saying this debate didn't matter, because Romney won the first one...?
posted by Theta States at 8:50 PM on October 22, 2012


Around the world perceptions of Obama-Romney contest
Much of the Chinese coverage of the presidential campaign has focused less on who might win than on China-bashing rhetoric from the candidates.

Obama and Romney have had heated exchanges about China’s alleged currency manipulation, unfair trade practices and the loss of American jobs, each accusing the other of being soft on the issues. The fear in China is that the victor will find it hard to dial back the tone after the election.

The Foreign Ministry and the official Xinhua News Agency last week took the unusual step of commenting on the U.S. election and urging both candidates to cool it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


guys let's all talk about greek tragedy

the concept of hubris/humility
posted by The Whelk at 8:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


> Right-wingers are saying this debate didn't matter, because Romney won the first one...?

Well, then this election shouldn't matter, because Obama won the first one.
posted by mrzarquon at 8:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [28 favorites]


Romney: "I agree with Obama! But with more anger! And words!"
posted by msalt at 8:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


.... we have another century of war technology ...

says everything about American foreign policy
posted by Surfurrus at 8:51 PM on October 22, 2012


If you're voting Romney at this point you are a failed human being and you hate America.

Simple as that.
posted by bardic at 8:51 PM on October 22, 2012 [11 favorites]


I'm surprised the Republicans haven't realised that they have 79 electoral votes sitting in their back pocket for Romney right now.

I wonder if they'll use them because they probably won't get the chance to pull off a stunt like it ever again.
posted by Talez at 8:52 PM on October 22, 2012


I UNDERSTAND THAT MOST OF THE HORSES AND BAYONETS ARE NOW REMOTE DRONE HORSES AND BAYONETS, CODENAME MK-RAFALCA
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:52 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


I might just be shallow enough to be cheering that Chicago beat Detroit just now on Monday Night Football.
posted by cashman at 8:53 PM on October 22, 2012


Register To Vote
posted by bardic at 8:53 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]


we have also established her Canadian citizenship

Your daughter would probably have to renounce that citizenship for a Presidential race, unless the country changes radically in the next 40 years. Teabaggers of the Future would make a lot of noise about how "this commie's gonna steal all our maple syrup and give it to the canucks!"

I also wonder, on a serious note, if there couldn't be a reasonable challenge brought on the 'natural-born' thing. Seems like dual-citizenship would go against the intent of that constitutional rule.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:54 PM on October 22, 2012


I really hope that tomorrow morning, Romney supporters and spinners will be arguing in support of horses and bayonets in modern warfare. Think about that for a few seconds. It makes this election zoooom past 2008 in the absurdity stakes.
posted by gofargogo at 8:55 PM on October 22, 2012


One of my aphorisms is never take any commentator on military affairs or foreign policy seriously unless they've read Thucydides. Only one of the men on stage tonight gave any indication being even passingly familiar with The Peloponnesian War. That is the man I will vote for.

We know how The Peloponnesian Wars went. Ill-informed citizens voting of their own free will in imperfect democratic systems, mostly in favour of a series of ongoing complicated military entanglements, which eventually ended in disaster for everyone involved, including the winners (mostly over-simplified, except for the disaster part).
posted by ovvl at 8:56 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


WE HAVE A BAYONET GAP WITH RUSSIA! IRAN IS BUILDING A GIANT BAYONET AS WE SPEAK!
posted by honestcoyote at 8:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


The better to kill all the bad guys with.
posted by ceribus peribus at 8:57 PM on October 22, 2012


My daughter just asked what she would have to do to run for president. What say you, MetaFilter?

Stay in school, become awesome, and talk down to the people who hate themselves, because they love that, and it helps everybody get on the same page. Oh yeah, run as a woman.
posted by Brian B. at 8:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Is there a bayonets in spinning centrifuges tumblr yet?
posted by shakespeherian at 8:59 PM on October 22, 2012


I'm surprised the Republicans haven't realised that they have 79 electoral votes sitting in their back pocket for Romney right now.

I wonder if they'll use them because they probably won't get the chance to pull off a stunt like it ever again.


Wait what now?
posted by jason_steakums at 8:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


What Happens After You Label a Country a Currency Manipulator?
Contrary to Romney’s suggestion, the law doesn’t actually give the president authority to immediately impose punitive tariffs on manipulators, and the Economic Policy Institute has suggested that such a move would violate U.S. commitments under the World Trade Organization, which require that trade spates be worked out through the organization’s the dispute settlement mechanism — potentially a years-long process.

Romney’s move might carry more firepower if Congress were to pass the Currency Exchange Rate Oversight Reform Act of 2011, a bill that would deem currency manipulation a form of subsidy and require the Commerce Department to consider what tariffs could be issued in the response. Perhaps ironically for Romney, the bill, which has already passed overwhelmingly in the Senate, was sponsored by Ohio Democrat Sherrod Brown — one of the Senate’s most liberal members — but faces opposition in the House from Republican leaders John Boehner and Eric Cantor.

Of course, just because the legal ramifications of the manipulator label are unclear doesn’t mean the political consequences wouldn’t be major. Romney’s comments last night were enough to prompt threats of a currency war in China’s state media. Such a move on “day one” of the Romney administration would certainly send a message — but more of a symbolic than a legal one.
posted by cashman at 8:59 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


CENTRIFUGES FULL OF BAYONETS
posted by elizardbits at 9:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


goddammit shakes
posted by elizardbits at 9:00 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Is there a bayonets in spinning centrifuges tumblr yet?

Not yet.
posted by Talez at 9:02 PM on October 22, 2012


It will be interesting to see if there is any substantial movement in the polls out of this debate. If things stay completely level then Obama will probably get somewhere around 290 electoral votes. If Obama moves it 2% then he'll get a 332 or so landslide and if Romney moves it 2% then it will be a narrow Romney win. Short of some really awful or really awesome BLS number or something like an Israel attack on Iran (unlikely) I just don't think Romney has been able to do enough damage to Obama to seal the deal.

Now maybe Gallup is closer to accurate but they are such an extreme outlier anymore I don't think they can be considered to be remotely accurate even though they are generating a massive amount of noise. If there is a substantial correction in Gallup polling then this election will almost certainly slip away from Romney.
posted by vuron at 9:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obama should send Romney the The Final Countdown movie, or the 1632 book series. And Kerry calling Romney the Wikipedia candidate was funny, and true as hell. To think Romney could ever be President, in this day and age, should be totally laughable to 47 percent...oh wait!
posted by Flex1970 at 9:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


So upon reflection, all I really got from this debate was the sense Romney is literally trying to lead from behind.
posted by wierdo at 9:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


From behind a horse.
posted by Skygazer at 9:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


A horse with an affixed bayonet.
posted by hippybear at 9:12 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney is literally trying to lead from behind.

bossy bottoms man....
posted by The Whelk at 9:13 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney, horses, and submarines. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Here's a cold war warning about our Amphibious Cavalry Gap with the USSR:
Intelligence reports coming out of Soviet Central Asia and Siberia indicate that the Soviets have undertaken an extensive horse-breeding program. The number of horses in the USSR increased fifteen percent (or forty-two percent [reports vary]) in the period 1968 - 1971. These figures indicate that the Soviet planners have assigned horse-breeding a high priority.

The question now arises: What place does this crash program occupy in Soviet strategic thinking? Here we can only speculate; but in the light of the Soviet Union's known expansionist aims, it behooves us to consider the possibility that they intend to use those horses against us. . . .

[Due to the accident of geography, our cities ] are at least four times as vulnerable to amphibious attack as the USSR. When one considers that they also have more horses than we do, the seriousness of the amphibious cavalry gap becomes apparent.

So if the Soviets are planning a sneak amphibious cavalry attack on the US, they will almost certainly use submarines, and will be building a larger submarine fleet. This, we find, is precisely what they are doing. The Soviet Union now has 401 submarines to only 152 for the United States.

Is there any hope of overcoming the disparity between our military capacity and that of the Soviets caused by our greater vulnerability?

[ . . .]

-- "The Amphibious Cavalry Gap" by J. J. Trembly (as told to James E. Thompson); Analog, Feb 1974.
posted by Herodios at 9:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]


I'm surprised the Republicans haven't realised that they have 79 electoral votes sitting in their back pocket for Romney right now.

I wonder if they'll use them because they probably won't get the chance to pull off a stunt like it ever again.
What are you referring to?
posted by Flunkie at 9:18 PM on October 22, 2012


koeselitz: I missed most of this debate. How did Obama refer to Thucydides?
He didn't. It was a comment I made to my friend while watching the debate because I thought that Romney's apparent ignorance of history disqualified him as a serious candidate for President. Then you laughed and the kids laughed and the dog laughed and I died a little inside. Naturally, I'll be including a link to The Peloponnesian War in my profile now.

In all seriousness though, I wish more politicians would read Thucydides.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:18 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney will create 12 million jobs under his plan. Moody's predicts f we stay the course we will have 12.3 million new jobs in the next four years. So he is really proposing to eliminate 300,000 jobs.
posted by humanfont at 9:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [17 favorites]


So if the Soviets are planning a sneak amphibious cavalry attack on the US, they will almost certainly use submarines

Wut? I mean...wut? Horses on...submarines? I guess the air force would get unicorns in this scenario?
posted by never used baby shoes at 9:24 PM on October 22, 2012


pegasi
posted by twist my arm at 9:27 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


Horses on...submarines?

The family-friendly comedy really writes itself, here.
posted by meese at 9:28 PM on October 22, 2012


Romney's Detroit op-ed's going to continue to kill him in Ohio, and Obama really really stuck it to him on that one tonight. Romney was so nervous defending that. He just looked sweaty and uncomfortable. I'm thinking that, right there, was this election, period.

From what I've learned, the car industry is strong in Ohio, and it's the reason Obama's established a good firewall in that area against this late stage encroachment from the antediluvian W. Romton Abbey.

I think, aforementioned encroachment is going to bleed off for Romney. But Gallup needs to figure out what the frickin' hell is going on with it's whacked LV poll.
posted by Skygazer at 9:28 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I thought it was cute when Obama shook hands with one of Romney's grandchildren at the end of the debate.

(CNN) Debate viewers split 48% for Obama and 40% for Romney in the poll, a margin within the sampling error of plus or minus 4.5%
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:30 PM on October 22, 2012


It's a shame the USSR weren't able to splice gills onto the horses. Using submarines to deliver regular horses would be a blood bath as the submarines would need to surface but aquatic horses would maintain a stealthy approach until they could charge the beaches.

It's pretty clear that in order to keep our military supremacy vs the unwashed hordes we need a crash program to develop geneseed for Space Marine legions.
posted by vuron at 9:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Horse-torpedoes might work.
posted by Skygazer at 9:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Adam Gopnik from the New Yorker:
We still make primitive narratives of nemesis—we are making them today, and shall make more and more—out of what are, at heart, contingencies of accident and economic cycles.

If Romney should win, we will be told that Obama’s Presidency was doomed by fatal flaws evident to all from the beginning, and all that he has done will be tainted. His isolation, his inability to reach out to his partners, his creation of hopes which could never be fulfilled, his failure to coax and wheedle and court the Congresses as Lincoln and Johnson are now imagined to have done—the result in Ohio was predestined.

If, on the other hand, say, minorities in Cleveland should turn out in big numbers, and Obama wins by a narrow margin… why, then Obama will be like Lincoln, a battler who pulled it out, kept his cool, saw it through, and remade his country in his own image. What happens in the next three weeks will not just shape what happens next—it will dictate all that is said about all that had happened before (para spacing mine)
Shorter Herzberg on today's debate:

Mitt Romney essentially supports Barack Obama’s foreign policy in almost every particular. The question is: Whom do you trust more to carry out Barack Obama’s foreign policy, Mitt Romney or Barack Obama?
posted by the cydonian at 9:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [27 favorites]


The first debate was 1960 (with some irregular predecessors) I hope they don't continue like this for another 50 years. The live audience turns it into a sporting spectacle. Maybe we need something like private chats ala Charlie Rose style where more intelligence can be had. There are so many genres it could be done.
posted by stbalbach at 9:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


"2073 new comments, show"

Sweet jeebus.
posted by cmyk at 9:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


I'd like to see presidential debates in the horror genre with lots of gore.
posted by Skygazer at 9:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm looking forward to the time when the Presidential debates are settled mano-a-mano like Kirk and Spock fighting using those Vulcan weapons.

Why watch verbal sparring when you can watch a real fight to death.

Obama would totally destroy Romney in this sort of fight.
posted by vuron at 9:40 PM on October 22, 2012


I'd like to see presidential debates in the horror genre with lots of gore.

Not to beat around the bush, but didn't they have that for the 2000 season?
posted by the cydonian at 9:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [15 favorites]


Keep in mind that 2000+ comments on a night when there is a game 7 in the NLCS and Monday Night football. Obama vs Romney is the new national pasttime.
posted by vuron at 9:42 PM on October 22, 2012


There are so many genres it could be done.

From Wikipedia:
The series of seven debates in 1858 between Abraham Lincoln and Senator Stephen A. Douglas for U.S. Senate were true, face-to-face debates, with no moderator; the candidates took it in turns to open each debate with a one-hour speech, then the other candidate had an hour and a half to rebut, and finally the first candidate closed the debate with a half-hour response.
The Lincoln/Douglas Debates (SCTV).
posted by mazola at 9:42 PM on October 22, 2012


Once again, I voice my support for a pinball showdown.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]


Obama would totally destroy Romney in this sort of fight.

When Bush beat Richards in the gubernatorial race in Texas, my 15-year-old brother called me at college to say "They shoulda done that as a trial by combat. That way Richards would have been guaranteed to have won."
posted by KathrynT at 9:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


There is some sort of perfect mega storm maybe headed for the Mid-Atlantic and New England. Eight days before the election.
posted by stbalbach at 9:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm looking forward to the time when the Presidential debates are settled mano-a-mano like Kirk and Spock fighting using those Vulcan weapons.

Why watch verbal sparring when you can watch a real fight to death.

Obama would totally destroy Romney in this sort of fight.
Well of course Obama would win with Vulcan weapons.
posted by Flunkie at 9:49 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney seems suprised to learn about submarines and aircraft carriers
posted by humanfont at 9:51 PM on October 22, 2012


just chiming in to say that Obama's response on Israel was nothing short of masterful - fucking Clintonesque. And clearly not rehearsed. Not sure if Florida is still in play, but that definitely turned some heads.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 10:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [5 favorites]


perfect mega storm maybe headed for the Mid-Atlantic and New England

Quick, someone get Clooney to West coast!
posted by Slackermagee at 10:10 PM on October 22, 2012




gerryblog: The National Popular Vote thing is a trainwreck waiting to happen -- as far as I can tell, there's nothing to stop states from pulling out after the fact if they decide they prefer the results the other way...

Actually, the law stipulates that the compact only takes effect once it achieves a majority of electoral votes before July 20th of a presidential election year, and at that point, states that wish to join or withdraw from the national popular vote compact would not be able to do so until January 20th of the following year.
posted by malapropist at 11:06 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]






Rove, to Mittens, afterwards:

WHERE DID YOU LEARN YOUR TRADE

WHOEVER TOLD YOU THAT YOU COULD WORK WITH MEN
posted by sixswitch at 11:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]


homunculus Esquire link:

My god, Romney actually said that America doesn't install dictators, ignoring the fact that we've had these problems with Iran for 60 years precisely because we overthrew an elected president and installed a friendly dictator whose rule was so bloodthirsty that religious fanatics ran him out, imprisoned our embassy officials, and gave Ben Affleck a chance 30 years later to direct a cool movie. Do we honestly have to count them all off? Somoza? Rios Montt? Pinochet? And, yes, Saddam Hussein. Romney sounded like he was taking history at one of those Jesus-on-a-dinosaur middle schools that "Bobby" Jindal has opened in Louisiana.

my monitor is all sizzling and shit

it's like.. I get why a neocon candidate could be a viable option right now. like how being ruled by a right-wing hard-ass could benefit this country in some ways. and even though the factors involved, in our heavily globalized society, are far outside the control of any one head of state and the country he presides over, there's been a whole lot of fucking real pain in the last 5 years and it's not hard to desire a real drastic change to make the pain stop. it won't, of course. but that guy has to have real charisma, that 'something' that Romney just doesn't seem to have. I LOVE Obama as our president. I love what it says about our country that he made his way into that office. but I also don't necessarily have an issue with a Republican president. but even the Republicans don't like Romney. and after 4 years where they made it exceedingly difficult for our current president to do get a lot done, why is it in anyone's interest to elect another guy they don't like? Romney is the "anything but Obama" candidate; the same ridiculous game the GOP has been playing since he took office. I'd LOVE to see a real, viable, smart right wing candidate in a few years. but the way that party acts now, I just don't know that they can actually make that happen.
posted by ninjew at 11:43 PM on October 22, 2012


YOU WOULDN'T KNOW A SMALL BUSINESS IF IT BIT YOU ON THE ASS MITTENS

Oh, that reminds me, winter's around the corner and need to get some new ass mittens.
posted by krinklyfig at 12:23 AM on October 23, 2012 [9 favorites]


Naturally, I'll be including a link to The Peloponnesian War in my profile now.

I've had a quote from it in my profile for years that I think plays well in any American foreign policy debate.
For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretences- either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Mede, or are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us- and make a long speech which would not be believed; and in return we hope that you, instead of thinking to influence us by saying that you did not join the Lacedaemonians, although their colonists, or that you have done us no wrong, will aim at what is feasible, holding in view the real sentiments of us both; since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 12:46 AM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


I'm looking forward to 2016 presidential debates on MetaFilter, with jessamyn and cortex as moderators.
posted by mbrubeck at 12:48 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Slightly off-topic but did we get anymore on the October surprises promised by Trump or Gloria Allred?
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 12:51 AM on October 23, 2012


I get why a neocon candidate could be a viable option right now. like how being ruled by a right-wing hard-ass could benefit this country in some ways.

I'm curious what you imagine a "right wing hardass" is anymore. Iraq and the Bush years revealed the true face of the GOP: a power-crazed loyalty cult. That's all they were all along. When Colin Powell held up that vial of bullshit, he killed the myth of the good conservative.

So.. who is this neocon right wing hardass, and how would his or her presidency benefit the US? I can't even imagine it, but then I am a shrill partisan moonbat liberal.
posted by fleacircus at 12:53 AM on October 23, 2012 [8 favorites]


Re: October Surprises.

A plague on anyone who holds on to a genuinely damning piece of information about a political candidate until right before an election. My gravest curse on anyone who, for their own ego's satisfaction, attempts to falsely sway the electorate with bullshit. May they die covered in painful, festering boils. May their line be barren and swiftly extinct. May those who support and enable them bring pain and sorrow down upon their families for a thousand years. May those who are swayed to change their votes by such gross tactics never know another true night's rest or feel peace in their soul until the end of their days.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:02 AM on October 23, 2012 [8 favorites]


I'd LOVE to see a real, viable, smart right wing candidate in a few years. but the way that party acts now, I just don't know that they can actually make that happen.

You pretty much have one already. In fact, he's already president.
posted by wobh at 1:40 AM on October 23, 2012 [40 favorites]


For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretences- either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Mede, or are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us- and make a long speech which would not be believed; and in return we hope that you, instead of thinking to influence us by saying that you did not join the Lacedaemonians, although their colonists, or that you have done us no wrong, will aim at what is feasible, holding in view the real sentiments of us both; since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

For those who haven't read it before, this is the Melian Dialogue.


Oh, that reminds me, winter's around the corner and need to get some new ass mittens.

For election season is long and full of terrors.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:20 AM on October 23, 2012 [8 favorites]


Shocking and embarrassing, folks - at no time in our country's great history has our military had fewer cestrosphendones, falxes, triremes, trebuchets, onagers or rhomphaias.

TRUE FACT!
posted by syzygy at 3:01 AM on October 23, 2012 [8 favorites]


Don't forget that the US has less halberds and men trained in their use than the Vatican. Absurd how weak on defense this President has been. He's practically begging for the Burgundians to invade.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 3:20 AM on October 23, 2012 [11 favorites]


trebuchets

more's the pity
posted by twist my arm at 4:12 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]




Right-wingers are saying this debate didn't matter, because Romney won the first one...?

People with perspective (me!) are saying this debate won't matter much, because there were a thousand distractions, from the NLCS Playoffs (Go Giants!) to two big Midwestern teams in Monday Night Football (Go...Bears?) to RuPaul's motherfucking Drag Race All Stars (Go Pandora!) and this very sedate face-off (seated! literal talking heads!) was not exactly engaging television for most of us.
posted by psoas at 4:19 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]




Just remember that if halberds are outlawed, only criminals will have halberds.


Halberds.
posted by spitbull at 4:22 AM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


On preview:
Is there some reason that the facts around the New England Compounding Company scandal aren't being used to attack Mitt Romney? At least part of the regulatory failure occurred during Mitt Romney's term.

I was just writing the same thing. Maybe people feel too removed it from it in the way that once you realize the lettuce recall isn't near you you stop paying attention. It's not as if either candidate is saying anything revelatory about the economy but it makes people feel like they're talking about them.

trebuchets

more's the pity


At least it's not Comic Sans.



posted by Room 641-A at 4:35 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


We have to consider that if halberds are outlawed, then bandits will simply resort to using other forms of polearm. And given our new emphasis on calvary, I think the last thing we want to see is a proliferation of guisarmes.

jesus, why do i know this stuff? I blame you, Gygax. I blame you.
posted by kaibutsu at 4:53 AM on October 23, 2012 [19 favorites]



There is some sort of perfect mega storm maybe headed for the Mid-Atlantic and New England. Eight days before the election.


Climate change is a hoax, my friend.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:53 AM on October 23, 2012


I always thought Garamond sounded like a weapon name.

Or a global parking company.
posted by spitbull at 5:06 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]




For President Obama, A Complex Calculus Of Race And Politics
But his seeming ease belies the anxiety and emotion that advisers say he brings to his historic position: pride in what he has accomplished, determination to acquit himself well and intense frustration. Mr. Obama is balancing two deeply held impulses: a belief in universal politics not based on race and an embrace of black life and its challenges.

Vigilant about not creating racial flash points, the president is private and wary on the subject, and his aides carefully orchestrate White House appearances by black luminaries and displays of black culture. Those close to Mr. Obama say he grows irritated at being misunderstood — not just by opponents who insinuate that he caters to African-Americans, but also by black lawmakers and intellectuals who fault him for not making his presidency an all-out assault on racial disparity.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:22 AM on October 23, 2012


This is my first year in DC. I'm told the inauguration in 2008 was a wild, heady time and people loved it, despite freezing to death in the January cold.

I suspect that if Romney wins it will not be nearly as fun.

Of course, all the locals are also saying that we're in for Snowmageddon II: Electric Boogaloo since this past winter was so mild...but...
posted by Thistledown at 5:23 AM on October 23, 2012


Am I right in thinking Romney completely avoided being critical of Benghazi?
posted by edgeways at 5:23 AM on October 23, 2012


They both seemed to be pretty much on the same page as far as the assassination by drones and kill lists are concerned. Depressing, but unfortunately expected.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 5:49 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


She was. But we have also established her Canadian citizenship (my husband was born in Canada of American citizens, and holds dual citizenship). We made sure to do that when she was born, as GWB was President, and we wanted to keep all options open for her. Would that be a problem?

She's sunk. Maybe there's wiggle room if you never renew her Canadian passport or never get her one. But even then, she's the child of traitors who dared to register their kid with the Canadian authorities. So would say Michele Bachmann, who had Swiss citizenship (obtained as an adult while in office!) which she then renounced after the rank hypocrisy was noticed.

I'm mildly curious whether the President is allowed to be a dual citizen. The NSA wouldn't hire me and I'm unelectable, but am I actually barred on paper?
posted by hoyland at 5:51 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


I was at the 2009 inauguration (shortly after ringing the new year at Times Square; 2009 was my year of freezing in large crowds), Thistledown, and there really was a good vibe throughout the city. Everyone was super friendly and there was just a really calm and, yes, hopeful, feeling throughout the city. Even got a few random high fives and fistbumps for wearing my "HOPE" shirt (gave a few as well). Doubt it'll be such a momentous event this time around, but DC is about as friendly Obama territory as exists, so a win will bring much rejoicing regardless.
posted by Panjandrum at 5:58 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


She was. But we have also established her Canadian citizenship (my husband was born in Canada of American citizens, and holds dual citizenship). We made sure to do that when she was born, as GWB was President, and we wanted to keep all options open for her. Would that be a problem?

It might be an image problem and she may have to renounce her Canadian citizenship, but (and IANAIL so take with a grain of salt) I suspect being born in America to an American parent (say... like Obama was for instance) should be sufficient.
posted by edgeways at 6:05 AM on October 23, 2012




Am I right in thinking Romney completely avoided being critical of Benghazi?


Mother Jones
Republicans are spinning hard to make this sound like an Obama debacle, but if you read between the lines, conservative reaction to the debate hasn't been very positive. Romney decided — probably with good reason — that he needed to be extremely restrained tonight, and this meant that he barely mentioned any of the Republican pet rocks that keep the base so riled up. No Churchill bust. No failure to meet with Netanyahu. No attacks over Benghazi. Only a bare mention of the Muslim Brotherhood taking power in Egypt. This has left conservatives mostly mooning about what Romney should have said and relitigating Benghazi all over again. They think Obama has proven himself the weakest world leader since Neville Chamberlain, and they just don't understand why Romney didn't mop up the floor with him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:16 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]




the most important thing for her to do right now is make sure she's born in the United States

She doesn't have to be born in the United States to be a natural-born citizen. She just has to be a U.S. citizen at birth.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:19 AM on October 23, 2012


Ann Coulter trolled in her post debate tweet by calling Obama, "the retard."
posted by humanfont at 6:25 AM on October 23, 2012


She was. But we have also established her Canadian citizenship (my husband was born in Canada of American citizens, and holds dual citizenship). We made sure to do that when she was born, as GWB was President, and we wanted to keep all options open for her. Would that be a problem?

It might be an image problem and she may have to renounce her Canadian citizenship, but (and IANAIL so take with a grain of salt) I suspect being born in America to an American parent (say... like Obama was for instance) should be sufficient.


This suggests that dual citizenship does not create a legal barrier to holding the office of President of the United States. I agree with the commenters who suggest that it would create an image problem. If her desire to be President grows from curiosity to serious planning, I would think that she would renounce her Canadian citizenship at the time of attaining the age of majority. I'm not sure, in this case, whether that would be 16, 18, or 21.

Pakistan is actually in the middle of quite an intense debate over whether members of parliament and ministers could legally hold dual citizenship. It's been pretty amusing to see the number of cabinet members who have had to confess to maintaining UK/US/Canadian citizenship along with that of Pakistan.
posted by bardophile at 6:26 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Actually, the law stipulates that the compact only takes effect once it achieves a majority of electoral votes before July 20th of a presidential election year, and at that point, states that wish to join or withdraw from the national popular vote compact would not be able to do so until January 20th of the following year.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a shitshow. But the Constitution gives states pretty absolute authority in how to slate their electors; there's no actual requirement that elections be held at all, and you'll recall that in 2000 one of the options the Florida State Legislature was considering was just assigning the electors to Bush regardless of the actual results.

I'm sure it would then go to the courts, but my god, the courts.
posted by gerryblog at 6:43 AM on October 23, 2012


Rick Santorum: Here lies [your name]. He/she was happy’? Count me out! Isn’t life supposed to be more significant than that? Let’s face it—many of life’s pleasures are not even good for us, as my waistline constantly reminds me.”

You know what's good for you? Fucking. A good vigorous fuck will put the roses back in your cheek-- and I promise it won't add an ounce to your waistline. Here are some other pleasures that won't add to your waistline:

Getting high (provided you don't eat )
Vigorous exercise like biking or gentle exercise like yoga
Traveling to new places
Watching nature
Watching your children and/or your pets
Learning new crafts
Volunteering
Reading a good book/watching an absorbing movie
Gardening
Sitting on the porch with someone you love and admire and discussing the day's events

In short, pretty much my whole life. I have no problem with my entire life being summed up with: She was happy. Very happy And enjoyed the fuck out of her life.

But maybe since the Tea Party has proved itself an absolute failure (gee who could have predicted that supporting dumbasses who don't know anything about politics would be a losing proposition) maybe we will see the rise of a new Republican group, The Puritans. I can only imagine the candidates they would field.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:43 AM on October 23, 2012 [24 favorites]


On FB, MPR asked (as they are wont to do, more oftentimes silly than not) What the Debate should have focused on, one particular cognizant reply (which I wish I had written, but had not):

Global warming, poverty (US and global), the global economy and the need to respond to restructuring through technology advances, the EU and it's importance (and the failure of austerity there), defense budget cuts needed, Mexico, Brazil's growth and importance, and acknowledgment of America's not being the ruler of the world.
posted by edgeways at 6:45 AM on October 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


Stay classy, Ann Coulter. Geezus.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:46 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Ryan's failure to grasp the idea of modern weaponry is showing up quite a bit: Raw Story
Appearing on CBS the next morning, Ryan told host Norah O’Donnell that he couldn’t make sense out of the “horses and bayonets” line.

“To compare modern American battleships with bayonets, I just don’t understand that comparison,” the Wisconsin Republican said. “Look, we have to have a strong Navy to keep peace and prosperity.”

“If all these defense cuts go through, our Navy will be small than it was before World War I,” Ryan continued. “That’s not acceptable. And, yes, the ocean hasn’t shrunk.”
See also: CBS News
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:48 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney looks like he's saying "Your Welcome" to everything and everyone.
posted by xjudson at 6:49 AM on October 23, 2012


On Facebook, my right-wing Friends™ have been transitioning from "we do so use bayonets!" to "80% of modern trade is done by sea so we need navies for blockades." I guess it was a busy night for the interns at RNC HQ.

The last US naval blockade was, what, 1962? I guess we could blockade Syria to prevent Iran's dirty evil oil from escaping quarantine...
posted by gerryblog at 6:50 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Rick Santorum: Here lies [your name]. He/she was happy’? Count me out! Isn’t life supposed to be more significant than that? Let’s face it—many of life’s pleasures are not even good for us, as my waistline constantly reminds me.”

My husband has promised that he will follow my wishes and put, "She laughed a lot" on my tombstone, so I think Rick and I are not on the same philosophical page.
posted by thebrokedown at 6:50 AM on October 23, 2012 [14 favorites]


Halberds and trebuchets; this is why I like metafilter.

I fell asleep sometime after the 1st 30 minutes, but was happy to hear Obama's comments about The 1980s calling and "Dude, you're wrong. again, and again. In fact, Mittens, my lad, you're a tall, loathsome pile of lying wrongness."

I wish Obama was better at getting out the message about his record of solid accomplishment.

I wish there was a way to have a thoughtful dialogue on issues.

We'll see those about the time we get back our img tag.

on preview, the ocean has shrunk, if you count the fact that ships go faster and weapons go further.

And when Mitt talks about the economy, how the hell does anybody get their head around the phenomenal cost of a bigger Navy, more troops, more weapons, more military-industrial profits? The largest contributor to the deficit is the 2 wars. Even soldiers will tell you some of the expenses are kind of crazy.
posted by theora55 at 6:52 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Mitt Romney, Strong on Spanking
over the last few weeks, as he's tried to move to the center and reneged on many of his most contentious past promises, there is one pledge he hasn't backed away from. It involves spanking.

In July, the GOP presidential nominee wrote a letter to Virginia conservative activist Michael Farris, an Evangelical power broker in the critical swing state, outlining his opposition to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, which commits ratifying nations to protect children from discrimination. "My position on that convention is unequivocal: I would oppose Senate approval of the convention, and would not sign the convention for final ratification," Romney wrote. "I believe that the best safeguard for the well-being and protection of children is the family, and that the primary safeguards for the legal rights of children in America is the U.S. Constitution and the laws of the states."
Oh you know he spanked the bejeezus out of those boys.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:54 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


My husband has promised that he will follow my wishes and put, "She laughed a lot" on my tombstone, so I think Rick and I are not on the same philosophical page.

Ahhhh forgot to put laughing on my list of pleasures. How could I forget laughing?! It is one of my favorite activities.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:56 AM on October 23, 2012


Blockades? Current term is : maintaining or denying SLOC.

Navies are also used for (to include but not limited to): sealift, power projection, and nuclear deterrence. All of which WWI-vintage navies were terrible at.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:00 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Trump said his October surprise will be announced on twitter “sometime probably Wednesday,” suggested it could “possibly” impact the election.

Well I guess I won't hold my breath.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:01 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


The October Surprise is that Paul Ryan is on season XI of Celebrity Apprentice !
posted by Mister_A at 7:02 AM on October 23, 2012 [13 favorites]


"80% of modern trade is done by sea so we need navies for blockades."

I don't want my tax dollars used to create a navy whose mission is to protect the walmart shipping lanes.
posted by headnsouth at 7:02 AM on October 23, 2012 [13 favorites]


Here lies [your name]. He/she was happy’? Count me out! Isn’t life supposed to be more significant than that? Let’s face it—many of life’s pleasures are not even good for us, as my waistline constantly reminds me.”

Two thoughts. One, if this is the most odious thing Rick Santorum said, it would make ME happy. Two, is Rick Santorum trying to say he supports school nutrition programs?
posted by FJT at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2012


“That’s not acceptable. And, yes, the ocean hasn’t shrunk.”

So Ryan is acknowledging global warming?
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:06 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


The Navy’s focus is [unclear]. Its [280] combat ships — a number that House Armed Services Committee Chairman Ike Skelton called “shocking” — comprise a force that is less than half the size achieved during the Reagan years . . . The last time the US possessed so small a fleet was sometime between December 1916 and April 1917, on the eve of the nation’s entry into World War I.

Seth Cropsey, Deputy Undersecretary of the Navy for Reagan and George HW Bush (“Peril at Sea,” Armed Forces Journal, August 2007, p. 32.)

Here's the thing, though. There are only twenty navies in the world that operate fleets with aggregate displacements of 50,000 tons or more (in order):

Russia, the PRC, Japan, the UK, France, India, Taiwan, Italy, Indonesia, Spain, South Korea, Brazil, Turkey, Australia, Greece, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, Peru, and Singapore.

By number of ships, the United States Navy has almost as many ships as the next two largest navies (PRC, Russia) combined. The United States Navy has more combat tonnage than the next largest thirteen navies combined.

Of these countries, Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Japan,
the Netherlands, South Korea, Spain, Turkey, and the United Kingdom are formal US allies. Still more are friendly to the United States. The only possibly unfriendly navies that the US will have to face are possibly Russia and the PRC's, and then the US enjoys a 2.63 to 1 tonnage advantage over BOTH THOSE FLEETS COMBINED.
posted by Comrade_robot at 7:17 AM on October 23, 2012 [19 favorites]


Appearing on CBS the next morning, Ryan told host Norah O’Donnell that he couldn’t make sense out of the “horses and bayonets” line.

And here we were thinking that Obama was being all condescending, explaining it like you would to a four year old. He was using his hands to show how the airplanes landed on the aircraft carrier, how the submarine goes underwater, and everything. Just like you would to a rather slow pre-schooler.

And now we find out the actual problem--Obama didn't dumb it down enough.

Next time, Mr. President, aim for the two year old level.
posted by flug at 7:22 AM on October 23, 2012 [19 favorites]


Our navy will be smaller than it was before World War I. . . . the ocean hasn’t shrunk.

Our navy is bigger than the next ten navies combined. . . .

We have these things called aircraft carriers, where planes land on them. . . ships that go underwater. . .

He sunk my battleship. . . .




Folks when the candidates talk about the size and deployment of our blue-water navy,
don't take what they say littorally.

 
posted by Herodios at 7:24 AM on October 23, 2012 [22 favorites]


OH GOD, HELP ME I AM DYING. My Republican officemate didn't watch the debate but has a million opinions about how condescending Obama was and how Romney is a centrist peacemaker. This is in New York City, so I can't imagine what it's like in the rest of the country.
posted by pineappleheart at 7:25 AM on October 23, 2012 [7 favorites]


Let’s put it this way: How would you like your tombstone to read, ‘Here lies [your name]. He/she was happy’? Count me out! Isn’t life supposed to be more significant than that?” - Rick Santorum

Much of my early life was rich in suffering, to the point that my sole remaing life objective is to avoid pain. So if I die and they can put 'winna was happy' on my tombstone I will consider that a major ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED.

So much of the republican platform is apparently based on having a willful, steadfast ignorance of the depth of sorrow and misery in the world.
posted by winna at 7:25 AM on October 23, 2012 [23 favorites]


I don't want my tax dollars used to create a navy whose mission is to protect the walmart shipping lanes.

I don't think it's a bad thing if tax dollars are used to protect shipping lanes. The same ones that are used by Walmart are the same ones that carry petroleum, natural gas, cars, etc. In addition, it's probably the same ones the US uses to export goods TO China too.

The whole exchange last night was about if the navy is big enough to do it's job. I'm going with President Obama's and the JCOS judgement on this. If they both say the navy's big enough, then it's big enough.
posted by FJT at 7:26 AM on October 23, 2012


My Republican officemate didn't watch the debate but has a million opinions about how condescending Obama was and how Romney is a centrist peacemaker. This is in New York City, so I can't imagine what it's like in the rest of the country.

I work in FINANCE in New York City. I am ignoring nearly EVERYTHING everyone says in my presence today out of self-defense.

Although I am going to tempt fate on Election Day and wear my old "Yes We Can" campaign button from 2008.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:28 AM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


RICK

RICK

RICK

I REFUTE YOUR ARGUMENT
posted by The Whelk at 7:29 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Yes, Obama won the debate. But man, foreign policy discussions only remind me really starkly that I should just focus on domestic agendas in deciding where my vote should go. Because if I look at the foreign policy agenda too closely, I might feel the need to go jump off a bridge.
posted by bardophile at 7:33 AM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Wait, this navy thing is just a distraction, Obama mentioned SPACE in the question about national security yesterday!

We need to be thinking about cyber security. We need to be talking about space. That's exactly what our budget does, but it's driven by strategy.

Who needs a navy, when we're gonna be Red Bull dropping a platoon of marines anywhere in the world within 30 minutes?

I work in FINANCE in New York City.

Live and work in Orange County. Don't see as many Romney stickers. Still, avoid politics like the plague.
posted by FJT at 7:35 AM on October 23, 2012


Getting coffee in my little corner of the Commonwealth this morning, overheard "Seriously, 1916!" and smiled.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:39 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


gerryblog -- here's an elaborate discussion of why you don't need to worry about a state withdrawing from the NPV compact after the election. The short version is:
  • it would violate federal law;
  • it would violate an enforceable interstate compact;
  • states have frequently had incentives to pull that kind of trick in the past, and have never decided it was politically acceptable to do so;
  • there would only be a handful of states in any given election with the means and incentive to even consider it;
  • the popular vote winner will be receiving roughly 3/4 of the electoral votes, so most defections won't shift the outcome anyway;
  • after a few elections, the popular vote will be the new normal and defection will become unthinkable; and
  • it's pretty unlikely that one of the first few elections will have a popular/electoral mismatch in the first place.
So in theory, there's a remote possibility that we'd have a misfire in the first few elections, the few states capable of defecting would actually decide to do so, they'd have enough electoral votes to shift the outcome, and courts would reject the laws that prevent it. In that scenario, the upshot would be that court action would take away an election from the popular vote winner and give it to the electoral vote winner on a legal technicality, leaving a bunch of people to think the results were illegitimate. That happened in 2000, and it wasn't fun, but it was hardly a threat to the republic.

In the meantime, the ongoing harm from the electoral college is palpable and real. Weighed against that, I just don't think the theoretical risk of defection from the NPV compact is worth worrying about.

(Fair disclosure -- there are certainly election lawyers who disagree with some of the legal analysis in that link. I don't know enough to say who's right on those points.)
posted by jhc at 7:44 AM on October 23, 2012


To compare modern American battleships with bayonets, I just don’t understand that comparison,” the Wisconsin Republican said. “Look, we have to have a strong Navy to keep peace and prosperity.”

We don't have battleships any more, either.
posted by vibrotronica at 7:48 AM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Thanks for the link jhc, I appreciate it. I'm still unconvinced however in the sense that I don't think trusting to norms can work; the Electoral College was over 200 years old in 2000, for instance, when all norms around the system completely broke down.

And given modern campaign science we may still be looking at relatively close elections for another decade or more; we could have another PV/EV mismatch this year, and 2004 was close as well.

I want a new Constitution, not a clever hack. It's the only thing I think would reliably work.
posted by gerryblog at 7:50 AM on October 23, 2012


Let’s put it this way: How would you like your tombstone to read, ‘Here lies [your name]. He/she was happy’? Count me out!

"Here likes Rick Santorum. He was a miserable man."

Happy now Rick?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:57 AM on October 23, 2012 [5 favorites]



The whole "we don't have enough ships" is puzzling to me. Is there some mission that the Navy is failing at that would succeed if only we had more ships in the water ?

Is there some pressing threat that the Navy is unprepared to address in it's current state ?

Because it seems odd to me to cry about government spending and then simultaneously complain that the government is not spending enough.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:59 AM on October 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


Woah, Romney spikes to 44% on Intrade...
posted by Theta States at 7:59 AM on October 23, 2012


Is there some mission that the Navy is failing at that would succeed if only we had more ships in the water ?

Virginia is a swing state, they have a lot of shipyards.
posted by The Whelk at 8:02 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


I work in FINANCE in New York City. I am ignoring nearly EVERYTHING everyone says in my presence today out of self-defense.

Live and work in Orange County.

I work in defense contracting in Texas. I think I win :)

(It hasn't been too bad so far because most of my coworkers are semi-rational conservatives who realize that Republicans are very complicit in the looming defense spending cuts. I love pointing out that our company's worst years were during Bush, thanks to the surge and the economic downturn. They are basically just sort of disgusted with the whole thing. But they do complain about Libya a lot, like we can just step in and fix the whole thing the way we've done so successfully in all those other Middle Eastern and South/Central American countries.)
posted by muddgirl at 8:06 AM on October 23, 2012


Whenever China is brought up in these debates I imagine China sitting in the audience and shouting, "I'm right here! I can hear what you're saying about me!"

Diplomacy: don't let them see the long knives.
Dumbasses.
posted by charred husk at 8:08 AM on October 23, 2012 [7 favorites]


Whenever China is brought up in these debates I imagine China sitting in the audience and shouting, "I'm right here! I can hear what you're saying about me!"


Well, yeah. China and just about all the other countries that they mention. Plus the ones that are conspicuous by their absence.
posted by bardophile at 8:10 AM on October 23, 2012


"I'm right here! I can hear what you're saying about me!"

Obligatory Simpson's Reference
posted by FJT at 8:13 AM on October 23, 2012


bardophile:
"Well, yeah. China and just about all the other countries that they mention. Plus the ones that are conspicuous by their absence."
I'm now envisioning other countries watching awkwardly as the candidates take turns making out with Israel on the stage.
posted by charred husk at 8:16 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


President Josh Romney hefts the bottle of sparkling grape juice in his hand, giving the assembled throngs of media and military brass his warmest intense, deadpan stare. "This day has been long in coming," the President says, "Finally, the promise my father made before me all those years ago has been kept." He gestures at the gleaming steel shape that looms behind him, reflections from the waves sending light ripples over the stage. "100 feet of steel hand forged in the fires of Toledo, Ohio! Cannons able to rain death upon our enemies using the latest in smokeless powder! I give you the USS Mitt, the first in a long line of Churge-class battleships that will make our country safe again!"

He brings the bottle down on the massive bayonet, smashing it. The crowd gasps as it looks as if the President of the United States just chopped his own hand off on the giant blade. But it is just red juice, red red juice that dribbles down the steel as the battleship surges forward. The crowd applauds as its mighty water wheels tear at the water like a stalking predator that has just sighted its prey.

"U - S - A! U - S - A! U - S - A!" starts Vice-President Ivonka Trump III from her geneforged chair. She bring the microphone closer to her withered lips, knowing that her current body's time is almost done, forcing every last bit of life from it before her consciousness must be reinserted into the next host body that already sleeps dreamless beneath the Naval Observatory. The crowd picks up her chant and rises to its feet as one.

President Romney ignores them all, his gaze focused like the eagle made from lasers that became the new national animal three years before. He seeks approval from only one man, that cold and distant force that made him who he is today. Through the noise and the tumult of confetti, he has no reading his father's blinking red light: ".. / .-.. --- ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ... --- -. .-.-.-"

"I love you too, Dad," he whispers. "I love you too."
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:19 AM on October 23, 2012 [39 favorites]


If you knew nothing about foreign policy, like, shit, most Americans and, obviously, Mitt Romney, you'd think that that Israel's security is the only thing preventing the United States from sinking into the ocean. For the U.S., you know what's more important than Israel? India. You know what didn't get mentioned last night? India. You know what's more important than Israel? Global climate change. You know what didn't get mentioned last night? Global climate change. You know what's more important than Israel? The Mexican drug war. You know what didn't get mentioned last night? Mexico. You know what's more important than Israel? The shit that's been going on in the Eurozone. You know what didn't get mentioned last night? The Eurozone. In fact, the word "Europe" was said just once, in a list of alliances the President asserted are stronger. For the kids, "Europe" is a continent that doesn't contain Israel, but does contain almost all of our strongest allies in the world and probably deserved a shout-out.
posted by gaspode at 8:26 AM on October 23, 2012 [32 favorites]


Virginia is a swing state, they have a lot of shipyards.

As a resident of Hampton Roads, home of the largest (mostly Navy) military installation in the world and location of several military shipbuilders, I got the distinct impression that Romney going off on that tangent was a sop to the Virginia vote.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:37 AM on October 23, 2012


The Debate's Great Failure
In the end, what was striking was that neither candidate wanted to get into a discussion of the changed world we find ourselves in at the dawn of the twenty-first century, where the focus is no longer on deterrence—making it costly for another country to actively injure the interests or security of the United States—but on compellence—getting other countries to actively help the United States to do something. It is much easier for countries to say no to Washington, doing nothing to hinder us but not actively assisting either. Instead, a whole host of issues briefly mentioned by the candidates (when they chose to talk about foreign policy) were questions of compellence—continued Egyptian cooperation in antiterrorism programs, Iran abandoning a nuclear-enrichment program, having other countries be willing to further tighten sanctions on Iran and turn the Islamic Republic into an international pariah, getting Pakistan to be more constructive on Afghanistan. Cajoling and threatening will not produce the desired results.
Foreign Policy

Where were Europe, Canada, and Mexico in last night's presidential debate?

Obama Did OK
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:37 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


figuarant: If each generation of Romneys mutiplies exponentially, they should be able to run a candidate who can win a majority just from voting family members eventually.

That's the long, long game, I suppose, but all kidding aside, I wonder if there might be something to that idea.

It might sound cynical, but I wonder if the idea behind the polygamist aspect of Mormonism was conceived of by Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, as a way to quickly populate the United States with Mormons. A politically and culturally significant, and eventually dominant, amount of Mormons.

Such a mysterious religion, I must say I am deeply confused, flummoxed and slightly suspicious of it, frankly...especially if Romney is going to be the national face of it. Although knowing generally decent dudes like Harry Reid, make me feel less wary of it.
posted by Skygazer at 8:40 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, that reminds me, winter's around the corner and need to get some new ass mittens.

PANTS. We call them pants here.
posted by msalt at 8:49 AM on October 23, 2012 [27 favorites]


Thinking about the debate some more, I think Romney did enough to satisfy his base and the Republicans. But it wasn't enough to tip Ohio to his column nor definitively switch Virginia, North Carolina or Florida. The election is still Obama's to lose and I don't see that happening.

That said I would love for the talking heads to discuss Romeny's "Syria is Iran's path to the sea" comment. That's astonishingly ignorant remark for a potential president, but most Americans didn't notice and less cared.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:51 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


but most Americans didn't notice and less cared.

George W. Bush was barely coherent, and he was POTUS for 8 years.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:54 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


North Carolina

Too busy to link right now, but the word is Romney has it sown up and both candidates are pulling out.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:59 AM on October 23, 2012


I don't think Mormonism is so confusing when it's contextualized as part of the greater religious revival occuring at the time of its foundation. I guess the question of why it has been so successful is confusing, but I feel the same way about Christianity - why THAT messiah cult over any other Jewish messiah cult? Or any other monotheistic religion for that matter? (These are hypothetical questions by the way - I'm sure I could look it up.)

Also, most Christian-based religions (have some subset that tries to) evangelize and have lots of kids. It's kind of a mission statement.
posted by muddgirl at 9:00 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Brandon Blatcher: That said I would love for the talking heads to discuss Romeny's "Syria is Iran's path to the sea" comment.
The Facebook Water-Carrying Crew are now saying he meant Iran somehow joining up to the Kirkuk–Baniyas pipeline and therefore avoiding the Suez canal or having to sail around Africa to ship their oil. It's a bit of a stretch.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:02 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


I don't think it's a bad thing if tax dollars are used to protect shipping lanes. The same ones that are used by Walmart are the same ones that carry petroleum, natural gas, cars, etc. In addition, it's probably the same ones the US uses to export goods TO China too.

I don't care whether it's walmart, petroleum, cars, or anything else. Inflating the public budget to create a publicly-owned security force to transport consumer goods obfuscates the true cost of those goods. At what point will we drop the pretense that gas actually *only* costs $3-$4/gallon and toasters *only* cost $10? What is the *true* cost of shipping jobs overseas, then paying to safely ship/transport/store the goods they make back here?
posted by headnsouth at 9:05 AM on October 23, 2012 [9 favorites]


The whole "we don't have enough ships" is puzzling to me. Is there some mission that the Navy is failing at that would succeed if only we had more ships in the water ?

My naval historian/analyst SO was saying this morning that the US could probably make better use of a larger number of smaller ships, rather than continuing on the path of fewer, bigger ships that they have been for some time. They would be better placed to deploy quickly. But smaller ships aren't sexy, and don't have as much room for extremely large and expensive and impressive weapons.

apparently bayonets are still part of army gear (I did not know that). But the USA probably has fewer of them, given that the army is smaller than in 1917 (at least, smaller than the US army after they joined WWI).
posted by jb at 9:13 AM on October 23, 2012


That said I would love for the talking heads to discuss Romeny's "Syria is Iran's path to the sea" comment.

Extraordinarily generous interpretation (ignoring that Iran and Syria don't even share a direct land border anywhere): Syria offers a path to the geopolitically-outsize Mediterranean Sea. (As far as actual seacoast: Iran is right on the Indian Ocean [Arabian Sea, whatever].)
posted by psoas at 9:15 AM on October 23, 2012


Inflating the public budget to create a publicly-owned security force to transport consumer goods obfuscates the true cost of those goods.

This argument can be made about any government service. Presumably companies are paying taxes to the government, and passing these taxes on to the consumer, so we would be paying the true cost of protecting shipping lanes. But our corporate-friendly tax policies might have mucked that up.
posted by muddgirl at 9:17 AM on October 23, 2012




(As far as actual seacoast: Iran is right on the Indian Ocean [Arabian Sea, whatever].)

Yeah, the "Gulf" in "Gulf war" refers to the Persian Gulf...
posted by bardophile at 9:18 AM on October 23, 2012


PANTS. We call them pants here.

Buddy of mine was watching a US football game with the audio in Spanish and noticed that they translated the yellow penalty flag into "handkerchief of punishment".

posted by RolandOfEld at 9:22 AM on October 23, 2012 [30 favorites]


I think North Carolina is safely Romney at this point or if it isn't that means Obama is going to get a 332+ EC vote count. I won't say that it's completely impossible if the Obama camp generates a massive GOTV effort in NC but other than forcing Mitt to play a little defense I don't see it worth a ton of Obama resources. Florida likely seems beyond Obama's reach at this point but it's an absolute must win for Romney so I figure Obama will continue to make a limited amount of effort in the closing days but might use proxies like Biden more than personal campaigning.

I think Wisconsin is effectively Obama territory now and Nevada seems pretty close to safe. Ohio is still the cornerstone of Obama's 270 strategy and I don't see Romney being able to close the gap but maybe something can buy him 2% points or so.

Virginia, Colorado, and New Hampshire are really the toss-ups currently. Hopefully they swing Obama's way but as long as he keeps what he currently has he can still generate a 277 EV total without them. If he loses Ohio he can still get to 270 if he wins Virginia or Colorado and NH.

The gameboard is tighter than I'd like but there are still more paths to the win open to Obama than Romney and I think it's likely that we'll get at least a .5% swing towards Obama out of this debate.
posted by vuron at 9:23 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


Holy shit. Ryan: “To compare modern American battleships with bayonets, I just don’t understand that comparison,”

DUDE. The last battleship was decommissioned 20 years ago. Ironically, it was the Wisconsin. Even beyond your measured, concern-troll "I don't understand", you, sir, are a gigantic dumbass.
posted by notsnot at 9:26 AM on October 23, 2012 [27 favorites]


I'm now envisioning other countries watching awkwardly as the candidates take turns making out with Israel on the stage.

Mitt dissed poor Greece in public. She's now waiting for her girlfriends to cheer her up and go for drinks.
posted by ersatz at 9:28 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


the likelihood of a republican-sponsored october surprise terrifies me. i hope obama, plouffe, axelrod, et al. are prepared.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 9:30 AM on October 23, 2012


Holy shit. Ryan: “To compare modern American battleships with bayonets, I just don’t understand that comparison,”

DUDE. The last battleship was decommissioned 20 years ago. Ironically, it was the Wisconsin. Even beyond your measured, concern-troll "I don't understand", you, sir, are a gigantic dumbass.


He probably saw the movie this summer and got confused. I bet he thinks the modern American battleship fires peg-shaped shells.
posted by COBRA! at 9:31 AM on October 23, 2012


Virginia is currently a tossup. If Obama can win it, as well as hold WI, NH and NV, that is 270 votes right there.
And that means he loses OH, IA, and FL.

So I consider VA to be a huge strategic win. Like OH, without it Romney has extremely few paths to 270.
posted by Theta States at 9:31 AM on October 23, 2012


RE: Polls and routes to 270

At the risk of repetition, allow me to endorse electoral-vote.com.
 
posted by Herodios at 9:39 AM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Other than the possible use a battleship as a platform for naval bombardment of an enemy using the big guns (presumably with rocket assisted shells) what would be the modern usage of a battleship anymore? Their effective attack range is dwarfed by a whole host of air-to-ship and ship-to-ship missiles.

Of course we should probably keep one or two in mothballs in case the Gamilons bombard us with planet bombs and we should probably keep funding research for the wave motion gun but honestly Battleships are just toys anymore. Cool toys but toys nonetheless.
posted by vuron at 9:44 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]




all the world's aircraft carriers

changeling, Wikipedia does not agree with that infographic at all.
posted by straight at 9:47 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Hey, a Rasmussen-free electorial map! W00t!

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2012/Pres/Maps/Oct23-noras.html
posted by Skygazer at 9:50 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


what would be the modern usage of a battleship anymore

I enjoyed them in this setting when I was younger. It's probably as appropriate now as it was then. Back up off my battleship!
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:50 AM on October 23, 2012


Hey, a Rasmussen-free electorial map! W00t!

I'll take my motivating cynicism over blue-glowing confirmation bias, thanks!
posted by Theta States at 9:53 AM on October 23, 2012


Other than the possible use a battleship as a platform for naval bombardment of an enemy using the big guns (presumably with rocket assisted shells) what would be the modern usage of a battleship anymore?

To be just a little bit fair to Ryan, he is probably conflating battleships (formerly line-of-battle ships) with warships.

Probably most of his audience does too.
posted by Herodios at 9:54 AM on October 23, 2012


Glenn Beck: "I am glad to know that mitt agrees with Obama so much. No, really. why vote?"
posted by specialk420 at 9:57 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


straight: the wiki articles on supercarrier and amphibious assault ship may help in addressing the difference in numbers.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:57 AM on October 23, 2012


Holy shit. Ryan: “To compare modern American battleships with bayonets, I just don’t understand that comparison,”

DUDE. The last battleship was decommissioned 20 years ago. Ironically, it was the Wisconsin. Even beyond your measured, concern-troll "I don't understand", you, sir, are a gigantic dumbass.
posted by notsnot


Not only that, but it was the site of his introduction as Romney's running mate.
posted by Aizkolari at 9:58 AM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


straight: changeling, Wikipedia does not agree with that infographic at all.
The infographic includes Assault Carriers. Which is fair in the sense that helicopters are aircraft too, but unfair in the sense that that's probably not what most people think of when they think aircraft carrier.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:58 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Creepy Josh Romney Returns (I'm actually starting to love creepy Josh Romney. Just so long as his family reunions don't take place at the White House.)
posted by sallybrown at 9:59 AM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


changeling, Wikipedia does not agree with that infographic at all.

The infographic is counting all ships that carry fixed-wing combat aircraft, which includes some amphibious assault ships.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:00 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Hey, a Rasmussen-free electorial map! W00t!

Yeah, I was going to mention that electoral-vote.com offers two versions of their election maps, one set including Rasmussen and one set without. He also explains why.

One of the best FAQs around, too, explaining methods, qualifications, etc.

I also like this pairing of Q&A:

Q: I love this site. Can I donate money to help out?
A: Yes. See the donations page.

Q: I hate this site. Is there one run by a Republican?
A: Yes. Take a look at electionprojection.com. It is run by someone who has devoted his life to Jesus and is strongly biased in favor of Republicans in his commentary (but his numbers seem to be OK).
 
posted by Herodios at 10:00 AM on October 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


Theta States: I'll take my motivating cynicism over blue-glowing confirmation bias, thanks!

Whatever floats your battleship, bebe ~!
posted by Skygazer at 10:01 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Creepy Josh Romney Returns

Dude's got a stare like Sam the Eagle.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:02 AM on October 23, 2012 [7 favorites]


Glenn Beck: "I am glad to know that mitt agrees with Obama so much. No, really. why vote?"

...huh. Glenn Beck sowing seeds of unenthusiasm to vote Republican among his listeners. I never thought I'd see something like that. Did Mitt do something to snub him and hurt his precious ego?
posted by jason_steakums at 10:03 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


The infographic includes Assault Carriers. Which is fair in the sense that helicopters are aircraft too, but unfair in the sense that that's probably not what most people think of when they think aircraft carrier.

Pretty sure all the ones they're showing carry jets.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:04 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Amphibious Assault Ships can also carry V/STOL aircraft like the F-35B, the Osprey and the Harriers. I don't think I'd want to land a F-35B on one but in they are designed for it.

At a certain point in time I think we have to begin to question why it's necessary for the Marines to duplicate the functions of the Navy and the Air Force but that's why we have ridiculous defense spending.
posted by vuron at 10:04 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Did Mitt do something to snub him and hurt his precious ego?

He agreed with Obama on a few things. Pearls were, are, and will be reached for forever and forever more, amen.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:07 AM on October 23, 2012


I think we have to begin to question why it's necessary for the Marines to duplicate the functions of the Navy and the Air Force

To defeat their enemies: the US Navy and Air Force.
 
posted by Herodios at 10:07 AM on October 23, 2012 [11 favorites]


Herodios: Yeah, I was going to mention that electoral-vote.com offers two versions of their election maps, one set including Rasmussen and one set without. He also explains why.

Yes, I should've linked to that as well. Excluding Rasmussen isn't simply an act of empty partisanship, it's based on a very real, observable, documented proof of seriously biased polling by Rasmussen who is the de facto Fox "House Pollling organization."

And since I'm on the subject, I suspect as Gallup gets it's shit together and comes back inline from it's weird outlier numbers, I think Rasmussen is going to push it's numbers towards Romney as much as they can, until of course, it simply will begin to be too late in the game to not appear obvious, as outlined by that piece on Rasmussen's clear GOP-bias in Electorial-vote.com.
posted by Skygazer at 10:08 AM on October 23, 2012


"Romney’s Big Navy Guru Made Millions From Building Ships", David Axe, Wired Danger Room, 23 October, 2012
posted by ob1quixote at 10:10 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


He agreed with Obama on a few things. Pearls were, are, and will be reached for forever and forever more, amen.

Yeah, but I'd expect Glenn Beck to spin that into a positive just like his old colleagues at Fox and move on. I realize it's just a single tweet, but if he repeats that sentiment on his radio show it could actually have an effect among portions of the base. My money's on him not hammering on it, but still.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:12 AM on October 23, 2012


Do you reckon Romney is such a big Battleship fan because it's a game the fellas can enjoy while the gals are cleaning up in the kitchen?
posted by Timmoy Daen at 10:13 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


To defeat their enemies: the US Navy and Air Force.

I love how, by excluding them from your list, you've basically told the Army and Coast guard to "Go along and play. Aren't they cute? Poor little tykes." Made me chuckle a bit.

At a certain point in time I think we have to begin to question why it's necessary for the Marines to duplicate the functions of the Navy and the Air Force but that's why we have ridiculous defense spending.

As anti-mega military [budget] as many people here seem to be, I'd think they'd view of something like the USMC, which has a historical reputation for doing more with less and taking the hand-me-downs of the other armed forces and making shit happen*, that is also suited to multiple mission models In the air, on land, and sea, would be viewed as better than the power/money hungry layout we're currently operating under.

Yes, I'm idealizing and assuming that it wouldn't swell to a monstrous blob if the other branches were made to disappear with the flick of a magic wand, I realize that is probably unrealistic.

*No I don't have a citation for this but I'm pretty sure I saw numbers for it in the past that were supportive of this claim, so *shrug*.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:20 AM on October 23, 2012


Creepy Josh Romney Returns

SOON! SOON THE TERRIBLE BEAUTY OF MY PLAN WILL COME TO BLOOM AND MY FATHER WILL BE DESTROYED BY HIS OWN HAND, HIS GREED AND HUBRIS TURNED UPON HIM AND THEN THE EMPIRE SHALL BE MINE HE WILL HAVE LOST AND NEVER KNOW WHERE THE KILLING BLOW CAME FROM, THAT THE POISON SPARK THAT FLAMED HIS LUST WAS FROM HIS OWN FLESH AND BLOOD.
posted by The Whelk at 10:22 AM on October 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


"Romney’s Big Navy Guru Made Millions From Building Ships"

is there nothing in this election that can't be explained by either money or stupidity (and frequently both)?
posted by twist my arm at 10:22 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


Romney could have handily won this if he'd just proposed we create The Centurions right out of the gate and answered every question after that with "MAN AND MACHINE, POWER XTREME!"
posted by jason_steakums at 10:26 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


Virginia is a swing state and is where most Navy ships are built. Depending on what "pivot to Asia" actually means, I'm sure it could be argued that to project more power in Asia would require more ships. However, comparing the size of our Navy now to its size in 1916 is just idiocy, IMO.
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:26 AM on October 23, 2012


RapBattle RomneyObama

and
the town hall debates SONGIFIED!!!

it's like an elevator speech version of the debates for people like....well..... like...... MITT!
posted by Wilder at 10:26 AM on October 23, 2012


SOON! SOON THE TERRIBLE BEAUTY OF MY PLAN WILL COME TO BLOOM AND MY FATHER WILL BE DESTROYED BY HIS OWN HAND, etc...

Still working over that box of wine are we?
posted by Pudhoho at 10:27 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


A plague on anyone who holds on to a genuinely damning piece of information about a political candidate until right before an election.

And more so until right after it.
posted by Gelatin at 10:27 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Gallup is late today. It usually comes banging in at 1 PM.

Any intel on that, Mefites?
posted by Skygazer at 10:29 AM on October 23, 2012


Intrade's a bit weird. Solid Obama debate, but he's down some, Mitt's up some. Some Intraders getting nervous that Obama didn't magically make it a sure thing with that debate?
posted by jason_steakums at 10:32 AM on October 23, 2012



Are going to use more battleships to force China to keep lending us money?
posted by specialk420 at 10:32 AM on October 23, 2012


25 Things Romney Supporters Like About Obama; 25 Things Obama Supporters Like About Romney.

That is amazing.

Romney supporters on Obama:
"He's really good at selling his ideas."
"It's great that he lets kids stay on their parent's insurance until they are 26."
"He's good with the middle class and poor people."

Obama supporters on Romney:
"Romney's a good businessman. He would definitely help our economy."
"He seems like he knows what he's talking about."
"Romney's not saying bad things about the Cayman Islands. I'm from there, and I saw a commercial Obama had criticizing Romney's accounts in the Caymans."
"Romney's against abortion. I like that."

How exactly do they pick who they support?
My favourite was the Obama supporter on Romney who said this though - "He knows his office supplies."
posted by knapah at 10:35 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]




25 Things That Actual Voters Said That Make You Despair For Democracy And Secretly Hope For A Benevolent Dictator who Doesn't Have To Pander To Morons.
posted by klangklangston at 10:53 AM on October 23, 2012 [13 favorites]


There is nothing that drives me nuts than people saying something like "Romney was a business man, he'll be good for the economy". Did you not see exactly what sort of businessman he was and do you not get that government is not a business?

Jesus, people!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:57 AM on October 23, 2012 [18 favorites]


We need to be thinking about cyber security. We need to be talking about space. That's exactly what our budget does, but it's driven by strategy.

How Fear of Cyber Attack Could Take Down Your Liberties and the Constitution: Obama officials are sounding the alarm on cyber warfare—what does this mean for your civil liberties?
posted by homunculus at 10:59 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Error-Filled Instructions Are Sent to Ohio Voters.

I have to say, that as disconcerting as all these stories are that suggest voting day will be utter freaking chaos, that even though it surely will be in many places, it will go smoothly overall in most spots. That's thanks to pollworkers and people having some respect for the voting process. It has amazed me since I was 16, doing polling as part of a social studies assignment for school.

I should probably go ahead and take off election day. I can't imagine sitting inside and just seething at all the stories I'm going to hear.
posted by cashman at 11:01 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's gotten to the point where I see a picture, and I start thinking of tumblrs to come up with.
posted by cashman at 11:05 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Hey, did it ever come to light what that "October Surprise" site was that Fark thought was a Rickroll? Was it?

(Warning - I do link to the site in question above, and have been trying to load it here at work out of curiosity's sake and been unsucessful. I assume no risk in case it actually is a Rickroll.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:08 AM on October 23, 2012


After watching the debate last night, I had a similar thought to the one that Charlie Pierce articulates in this piece -- that it must be nuts to be John Kerry right now, watching a former Massachusetts governor turn flip-flopping into an asset instead of a liability. I recognize that Kerry wouldn't have been able to pull off these kind of flip-flop master strokes the way Romney has, but it does make you wonder if slightly more craven pandering instead of playing defense against flip-flop accusations would have given Kerry enough votes to swing Ohio his way. Romney's ability to avoid being dragged down by his complete lack of actual positions must be really hard for Senator Kerry to watch right now.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:09 AM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Don't know about Romney, but Obama is not pulling out of NC
posted by edgeways at 11:14 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


I recognize that Kerry wouldn't have been able to pull off these kind of flip-flop master strokes the way Romney has, but it does make you wonder if slightly more craven pandering instead of playing defense against flip-flop accusations would have given Kerry enough votes to swing Ohio his way.

I don't wonder at all. Kerry was being weak on that issue and everyone could tell and no one liked it. Had he stepped up and not backed down, the election would have gone differently.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:15 AM on October 23, 2012


Hey, did it ever come to light what that "October Surprise" site was that Fark thought was a Rickroll? Was it?

Yes it was. When I looked at it yesterday evening there was some poorly done mural with politician's heads pasted over people in some water scene. It wasn't even worth a look.
posted by cashman at 11:15 AM on October 23, 2012


all these stories are that suggest voting day will be utter freaking chaos,

If you can early vote, do it! Fewer lines and then if you want to volunteer yourself on voting day, you can!
posted by emjaybee at 11:16 AM on October 23, 2012


ah - please disregard my question, it was indeed a Rickroll.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:16 AM on October 23, 2012


tonycpsu: "After watching the debate last night, I had a similar thought to the one that Charlie Pierce articulates in this piece -- that it must be nuts to be John Kerry right now, watching a former Massachusetts governor turn flip-flopping into an asset instead of a liability. I recognize that Kerry wouldn't have been able to pull off these kind of flip-flop master strokes the way Romney has, but it does make you wonder if slightly more craven pandering instead of playing defense against flip-flop accusations would have given Kerry enough votes to swing Ohio his way. Romney's ability to avoid being dragged down by his complete lack of actual positions must be really hard for Senator Kerry to watch right now."

I actually wonder if the GOP really wants Romney to win. It seems like when a party is picking a candidate to run against and incumbent president, they never bring their best, because they want to keep their powder dry for a time when they're not running against a candidate with the advantages of incumbency. So I've always looked at Romney as being the GOP's John Kerry.
posted by mullingitover at 11:18 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


I can think of nice things to say about Romney. For example, I think he has good leadership abilities. He does have more business experience than Obama. He loves his family. That doesn't mean I'm going to vote for him and that doesn't mean Obama doesn't have good leadership qualities or love his family. I have much stronger positive feelings about Obama's positions on say, foreign policy and reproductive rights. But it's not as if Romney is evil incarnate.
posted by maryr at 11:19 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


You know who I haven't heard from this election season? Steinski!
posted by box at 11:21 AM on October 23, 2012


jason_steakums: "Intrade's a bit weird. Solid Obama debate, but he's down some, Mitt's up some. Some Intraders getting nervous that Obama didn't magically make it a sure thing with that debate?"

How to swing the prediction markets and boost Mitt Romney’s fortunes
Here’s the backstory: On Monday night, after the debate, Barack Obama was leading Romney on Intrade by around 60 percent to 40 percent. But at around 10:00 a.m. on Tuesday morning, Romney had surged to 48 percent. Was this evidence that the conventional wisdom was wrong? Had Romney actually won the debate handily? Or, perhaps, was the nosedive in the stock markets putting a dent in Obama’s re-election chances?

Neither. As economist Justin Wolfers pointed out on Twitter, the huge swing toward Romney appears to have been driven by a single trader who spent about $17,800 pushing Romney’s chances on Intrade up to 48 percent. But the surge only lasted about six minutes before other traders whittled the price back down to what they saw as a more accurate valuation. Romney’s odds of winning are now back at around 41 percent.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:27 AM on October 23, 2012 [19 favorites]


"He's really good at selling his ideas."

The way my Obama-hating aunt puts it is, "that smooth-talking asshole."
posted by dirigibleman at 11:28 AM on October 23, 2012


I actually wonder if the GOP really wants Romney to win. It seems like when a party is picking a candidate to run against and incumbent president, they never bring their best, because they want to keep their powder dry for a time when they're not running against a candidate with the advantages of incumbency.

*nods*

So I've always looked at Romney as being the GOP's John Kerry.

Say what? Is that the narrative, now? The Dems didn't expect to win (against GW of all people) and so trotted out a losing candidate?
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:30 AM on October 23, 2012


swing toward Romney appears to have been driven by a single trader who spent about $17,800 pushing Romney’s chances on Intrade up to 48 percent.

I have no words.
posted by cashman at 11:31 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's gotten to the point where I see a picture, and I start thinking of tumblrs to come up with.

Surely, that could fit nicely into 'Paula Deen Riding Things'.
posted by frimble at 11:32 AM on October 23, 2012


> "I always thought Garamond sounded like a weapon name."

In the fourth year of the reign of Emperor Trajan, my legions were attacked by the Calibri in the hills of Helvetica. The canny tribesmen made their assault before we could reach and lay siege to the city of Gentium, thereby rendering useless our trebuchets and high towers.

My couriers soon reported that the Calibri, as was their normal habit, had assembled a force of light cavalry, clad in copperplate gothic and armed with arials, while also bearing short onyx used for close-in fighting. They relied on speed and maneuverability in the rough terrain, using their arials to fire flaming caslons into our midst and then retreating.

A generation ago, this tactic would have wrought grievous damage. But by the grace of the gods, this was a more modern era, and I was able to deploy a force of heavy infantry, armored in stout verdana and armed with the new garamonds. No cavalry, however fleet, can stand long against a trained force armed with garamonds.

So this I say to the fools who have said that our armies have fewer meliors and sylfaens than they have at any time since the war with the Lucida Sans. We have no need of such toys now. Those are the weapons of the old Rome – a century old style.

And these are the Times New Roman.
posted by kyrademon at 11:33 AM on October 23, 2012 [797 favorites]


the huge swing toward Romney appears to have been driven by a single trader who spent about $17,800 pushing Romney’s chances on Intrade up to 48 percent.

It just infuriates me that people have so much money that they can throw around a lot of people's full-year's salary on a whim ... and they use it to skew elections in their favor. I don't get it.

It's not just that $17,800 could do so much good in a million other ways. It's that if a huge (to me) amount like $17,800 is that easily disposable, then clearly the financial stakes are so ridiculously high that I can't even grok them. I mean, how many millions of millions of piles upon piles of money must be at stake for someone to be willing to throw $17,800 into the wind like that!
posted by headnsouth at 11:35 AM on October 23, 2012 [8 favorites]


It just infuriates me that people have so much money that they can throw around a lot of people's full-year's salary on a whim ... and they use it to skew elections in their favor. I don't get it.

It's not just that $17,800 could do so much good in a million other ways. It's that if a huge (to me) amount like $17,800 is that easily disposable, then clearly the financial stakes are so ridiculously high that I can't even grok them. I mean, how many millions of millions of piles upon piles of money must be at stake for someone to be willing to throw $17,800 into the wind like that!


But that's much cheaper than say a TV ad. And people across the spectrum mention intrade in article, Nate Silver does it all the time. If this buyer had been a bit more covert, and no one would've noticed we would've all freaked a small bit. Definitely worth $17,000 in the scheme of a presidential election.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:37 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


Is there any indication that the single trader was boosting the number in order to short the position later when it inevitable returned to parity?
posted by vuron at 11:38 AM on October 23, 2012


Apparently I'm still fuzzy on how InTrade works. The Washington Post article says that the lone trader overpayed by about $1250. Is that because he didn't drop the $17k in one single trade and therefore had to make multiple trades as the price was rising? Is it possible to drive up the price for Romney (thereby lowering Obama's) and buy more Obama stock at the lower price to come out net positive?
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:39 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Durn Bronzefist: "Say what? Is that the narrative, now? The Dems didn't expect to win (against GW of all people) and so trotted out a losing candidate?"

Not a losing candidate. One they could live with if he were elected, and they could also live with him losing and never being a contender again.
posted by mullingitover at 11:39 AM on October 23, 2012


In the fourth year of the reign of Emperor Trajan...

Often heard, never before experienced, wishing I could favourite something more than once.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:40 AM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


Ah, that makes sense, mullingitover. Thanks.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:41 AM on October 23, 2012


And these are the Times New Roman.

I remember reading about that in the New Century Schoolbook.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:41 AM on October 23, 2012 [20 favorites]


He does have more business experience than Obama.

What does that even mean? What applicable skills will Romney's business experience bring to the job of being President?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:44 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Goddamn, inTrade, I gotta use a wire transfer to send you money?

Still, Obama's a decent bet.
posted by klangklangston at 11:46 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Where Obama And Romney Are Advertising On Primetime Television
a survey of network television shows that breaks down which presidential campaigns, party committees, and affiliated groups are advertising are advertising on which programs.(sic)

It was copied straight out of the New Century Schoolbook.

That has no impact.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:57 AM on October 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


But that's much cheaper than say a TV ad. And people across the spectrum mention intrade in article, Nate Silver does it all the time. If this buyer had been a bit more covert, and no one would've noticed we would've all freaked a small bit.

Oh my husband most definitely noticed this morning. And he did freak out in a small way, he even had me sweating a bit thinking something had happened that we had not heard about yet. Glad to hear it was just monkey shenanigans with money.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:59 AM on October 23, 2012


I tell you I really can't take Intrade too seriously. It just seems too prone for manipulations, is over-reliant on emotional responses, and I have serious reservations about regular markets let alone these gambling-in-thin-disguise outfits.
posted by edgeways at 12:03 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


The infographic includes Assault Carriers.

The infographic is counting all ships that carry fixed-wing combat aircraft, which includes some amphibious assault ships.


I was also referring to how the infographic lists zero carriers for China, but the wikipedia article says they have one. Looking closer, I guess China has an old Soviet one they bought (through a 3rd party) and refurbished, which is performing maneuvers but not yet in active service.

Counting warboats is trickier than I realized. The infographics point about the extravagant superiority of the US military is true, but I guess there's a lot of nitpicking one could do to derail it. (Not accusing you folks of doing that, just thinking about how useful it is to make a point or not.)
posted by straight at 12:04 PM on October 23, 2012


I don't know. Battleships; Syria as "Iran's path to the sea". I think it's good. Romney could be America's "low information President".

Government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the Earth*

provided that climate change and a host of other problems take care of themselves
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 12:08 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


kyrademon, you failed to mention that a full generation after the conquest of Lucida, Corsiva's monotypes were repelled only when the Lucidan Consul lead a sylfaen charge, having exhausted his stores of caslon.

Also, learned students history can't forget that were it not for the meliors, Constantia could never have defeated Fraktur and Bauhaus, leaving nothing to stop the Copperplate Gothics from sacking Rome.

It's right there in the papyrus, if you care to read it.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 12:12 PM on October 23, 2012 [8 favorites]


The font of history is deep. (Something's deep, anyway.)
posted by Benny Andajetz at 12:14 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


The history-ignorance in this thread is comic, sans the gravity of the implications.
posted by COBRA! at 12:15 PM on October 23, 2012 [6 favorites]


The history-ignorance in this thread is comic, sans the gravity of the implications.

Well that's arial narrow way to look at it.
posted by sallybrown at 12:17 PM on October 23, 2012 [16 favorites]


So, my question for Mystery Intrade Big Spender, if you're going to spend over $17k to swing Romney from 40% to 48%, why not spend a few thousand more to push him up over 50%? What does a short window of 48% give you?
posted by jason_steakums at 12:22 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Maybe it was the dude's life savings.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:24 PM on October 23, 2012


jason_steakums, I don't know that it was necessary intentional. Among Fox News watchers Romney's inevitable victory is an article of faith and has been for months. He may have thought he was going to make some easy money.
posted by gerryblog at 12:25 PM on October 23, 2012


roomthreeseventeen: "Maybe it was the dude's life savings."

Or maybe it was just a dry run with spare change they found in the cushions of a couch on Shelly Adelson's yacht.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:26 PM on October 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


What does a short window of 48% give you?

A short window of opportunity to sell and take a 20% profit on anything you bought when it was trading at .40. The folks behind Zerohedge have been talking about some very HFT-like patterns happening over at intrade. This is likely one of those.
posted by toxic at 12:30 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


I tell you I really can't take Intrade too seriously. It just seems too prone for manipulations, is over-reliant on emotional responses, and I have serious reservations about regular markets let alone these gambling-in-thin-disguise outfits.

Wasn't Intrade "wisdom of the crowds" very strongly predicting that the Supreme Court would overturn the ACA (ie, the crowds were wrong)? Or am I misremembering?
posted by muddgirl at 12:31 PM on October 23, 2012


Drones: What Wasn't Asked at the Debate

Here's two:

"Why is it acceptable to kill large numbers of non-American civilians in order to protect Americans civilians from terrorism?"

"Would countries like Germany or France accept drone attacks by the US?"
posted by mrgrimm at 12:33 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Dutch war memorial inscribed in comic sans.

I dunno, just had to link that somewhere.
posted by Rumple at 12:34 PM on October 23, 2012 [6 favorites]


"Why is it acceptable to kill large numbers of non-American civilians in order to protect Americans civilians from terrorism?"

I think for a majority of the population it would be acceptable to kill large number of non-American civilians in order to protect Americans from having to buy a new pair of socks.
posted by gerryblog at 12:36 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


charlescwcooke Again, when Obama really doesn't like what Romney's saying, he looks at the moderator. It's so odd.
3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite


I know I am way late to this party but this seemed to me like he was looking for opportunities to interrupt the idiocy, to be ready to jump in fast if Sheiffer even begins to make a noise like Romney has gone on too long.
posted by aught at 12:36 PM on October 23, 2012


"Why is it acceptable to kill large numbers of non-American civilians in order to protect Americans civilians from terrorism?"

Because American lives are supposed to be valued more. And following from that, American health, lifespan, economic wellbeing, and jobs are worth more than those overseas. I mean, it's President of the US, not President of the World, right?
posted by FJT at 12:38 PM on October 23, 2012


The front page of Drudge and FoxNews have same photo of Obama holding a baby and looking up to the sky. Both have headlines that give the impression that Obama needs a miracle to win.

Then they both(Drudge, Fox) link to stories that say the race is neck and neck. Yet Romney doesn't need a miracle, just the President. Damn that liberal media.

Because American lives are supposed to be valued more.
Of course they do, to Americans. Everyone values members of their own "tribe" over those who exist out of the group.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:41 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wasn't Intrade "wisdom of the crowds" very strongly predicting that the Supreme Court would overturn the ACA (ie, the crowds were wrong)?

Not sure whether that is true or not, but I would never trust Intrade to predict a court decision--it's a popular vote of non-experts trying to predict what a tiny handful of legal experts are going to do. It would be like asking the nation to vote on whether a medical patient would or would not survive. Whereas a presidential election is determined by a popular vote (in the sense that the electoral vote is determined by a series of popular votes within each state), so it's a more comparable measure.
posted by sallybrown at 12:44 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Interesting article (via TPM) about the Romney campaign acting like things are going well in order to fool the press into thinking they are. Plus, there's a really funny/cruel picture of Romney at the top.
posted by benito.strauss at 12:44 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Talez: I'm surprised the Republicans haven't realised that they have 79 electoral votes sitting in their back pocket for Romney right now.

I wonder if they'll use them because they probably won't get the chance to pull off a stunt like it ever again.


Still really super curious about this. Where are these 79 EVs from?
posted by jason_steakums at 12:46 PM on October 23, 2012


It's gotta some kind of voter fraud conspiracy theory. Maybe electronic voting?
posted by Justinian at 12:48 PM on October 23, 2012


Everyone values members of their own "tribe" over those who exist out of the group.

I guess I'm doing it wrong.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 12:53 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Those would be the 79 electoral votes that will come from states where Hart InterCivic non-auditable electronic voting machines are used, No?

That would be the same Hart InterCivic that is now effectively owned and controlled by Solamere/H.I.G. Capital (a.k.a. the Romney family).

Yeah, those 79 electoral votes.
posted by toxic at 12:57 PM on October 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


"Why is it acceptable to kill large numbers of non-American civilians in order to protect Americans civilians from terrorism?"

I think for a majority of the population it would be acceptable to kill large number of non-American civilians in order to protect Americans from having to buy a new pair of socks.


Fundamentally this is not really an American thing, but a current-model power thing. If Brazil was able to project itself as militarily as the United States I suspect they would be saying the same thing... or Cuba or Romania or... The reason America does this is exactly because no one is really able to stop them, militarily or diplomatically, and that is at least in part because we exist in a global scale where it is acceptable. Notice how similar Obama and Romney where on several issues last night? yeah, that isn't too far off what most world leaders would be, either now, or given the opportunity.
Don't get me wrong there are differences, but they have more to do on how to project that power in specific instances rather than should we project that power.
And this is at least partially because to be on the world stage requires a certain amount of similarity for the majority of actors. France is never going to elect a total pacifist isolationist, nor Russia, Australia, Canada, China, nor any country that actually has influence over things. In some fashions Obama and Hu Jintao are more similar than say Obama and, myself.
So fundamentally the question should not be "Why is it acceptable to kill large numbers of non-American civilians" but "Why is it acceptable to kill large numbers of people". And really? As counterintuitive as it is the actual rate of death-by-war is decreasing, and believe it or not we are becoming a less violent species. We are, unintentionally by social practice, playing a direct role in our evolution. Want to know how long it takes to breed (evolve) a wild fox population from the wild to one that adores humans and is domesticated? 10 years. And that is what we are doing to humans as well, only it is less directed and so takes longer.
posted by edgeways at 12:57 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


It's gotta some kind of voter fraud conspiracy theory. Maybe electronic voting?

I didn't check, but I assumed it was states that were predicted to go for Obama but that -- thanks, 2010! -- had unified Republican governments. In theory they could just assign their electors directly and ignore the election results.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:58 PM on October 23, 2012




ROU_Xenophobe: "In theory they could just assign their electors directly and ignore the election results."

I think even many Republicans would be outraged at that many states disregarding election results unless they were all within 0.5% or so in the popular vote. That might give the Republicans enough cover for "recounts" that just sadly couldn't be finished on time.
posted by wierdo at 1:01 PM on October 23, 2012






I figured it was the Hart Intercivic voting conspiracy too, but unless I used 270towin wrong I only got to 76 (OH, TX, CO, OK, HI). Your link omits HI and adds WA, which doesn't add up to 79 either.
posted by gerryblog at 1:04 PM on October 23, 2012


Let's not mock the Genocide Convention, everyone.

While the Genocide Convention is indeed a real and un-hilarious thing, Mitt's bringing it up was seriously bizarre. I think it's one of the weirdest things he said last night, and I'm surprised it's not getting more attention. WaPo does have a brief thing on it: Romney Embraces World Court.
posted by naoko at 1:04 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Of course they do, to Americans. Everyone values members of their own "tribe" over those who exist out of the group.

Everyone is supposed to, but there's a lot of different "tribes" people belong to. For example, even if a CEO was born in the US, he may feel his own "tribe" are fellow international business people, and be okay with moving jobs overseas. Or, someone may feel more comfortable with other Christians, other gays, or other mefites.

I guess my hope is a president that is aware of these tribes and their conflicting interests and tries to work with them to the common benefit. But, if it comes down to the mat, he (or she) serves the American people, full stop.

And, I guess the president is more my "tribe" if it comes down to it, which is part of the reason why I trust him more.
posted by FJT at 1:06 PM on October 23, 2012




Wait, are those photoshops or what?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:11 PM on October 23, 2012


Wait, are those photoshops or what?

Well, they just got a kid that looks like Mitt to do those things. Not photoshop, but fake.
posted by FJT at 1:14 PM on October 23, 2012




Re: Drones. I've been looking for a long time for statistics on civilian deaths caused by US military action, but divided between unmanned drones vs. manned incursions, and it's been tricky to find. Either one is reprehensible, but it seems strange to me that Obama is unfavorably compared to Bush on this matter. But maybe we have actually been killing more civilians with drones than with manned attack vectors?
posted by muddgirl at 1:20 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]






Either one is reprehensible, but it seems strange to me that Obama is unfavorably compared to Bush on this matter. But maybe we have actually been killing more civilians with drones than with manned attack vectors?

I wonder if drones aren't seen as "unsporting," in that they allow us to perpetrate violence without putting ourselves in harm's way. But then again, by one interpretation violent conflict hasn't been sporting since leaders discovered they could use soldiers as proxies in combat.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:27 PM on October 23, 2012


Salon.com: The Man Without a Soul.
posted by Skygazer at 1:27 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


I wonder if drones aren't seen as "unsporting," in that they allow us to perpetrate violence without putting ourselves in harm's way.

Yeah I put that in and then deleted it (because I don't know either way), but certainly attacking 'terrorists' (who could be civilians) with F-22s or ground troops in body armor is pretty unsporting, too.
posted by muddgirl at 1:29 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


(And I feel like I should note that I... strenuously disagree with killing civilians, or any administration which knowingly kills civilians and tries to demure about it the way the Obama administration has. I am just confused as to why drones get all the focus when we're talking about miltiary action.)
posted by muddgirl at 1:32 PM on October 23, 2012


EV predictors

538: O 291 - R 247
Politico: O 281 - R 257
ElectoralVote O 281 - R 244 (13 tossup)
Huffington O 303 - R 235
Reuters O 332 - R 206

composite margin
O 298 R 237
posted by edgeways at 1:32 PM on October 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


I know this is implied by giving it a link, but when Michelle Malkin calls you stupid and shallow... just fuck, that's harsh. Like if it was almost anyone else in the universe, I would feel bad for Anne Coulter.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:34 PM on October 23, 2012 [6 favorites]


I really did not think I could dislike that lady (AC) more, but she proved me wrong. Most times when people use that term I just kinda feel sorry for them, but when you use it to intentionally provoke you might as well start flinging the N word as well.
posted by edgeways at 1:39 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


As counterintuitive as it is the actual rate of death-by-war is decreasing, and believe it or not we are becoming a less violent species. We are, unintentionally by social practice, playing a direct role in our evolution. Want to know how long it takes to breed (evolve) a wild fox population from the wild to one that adores humans and is domesticated? 10 years. And that is what we are doing to humans as well, only it is less directed and so takes longer.

You got any cites for that or are you just pulling shit out your ass? for the less violent bit mean.

Social Darwinism ftw amirite?
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 1:41 PM on October 23, 2012


EV predictors

538: O 291 - R 247
Politico: O 281 - R 257
ElectoralVote O 281 - R 244 (13 tossup)
Huffington O 303 - R 235
Reuters O 332 - R 206

composite margin
O 298 R 237
posted by edgeways at 3:32 PM on October 23 [+] [!]


And for laughs:

Unskewed Polls - R 342 - O 196

Of course, they also say that Rasmussen leans 3 points Dem, those crazy kids...
posted by WinnipegDragon at 1:41 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


I wonder if there's the possibility that Mitt's vertigo-inducing (nausea inducing as well), shameless, move to the center might not turn-off the extreme right to simply not vote for him, but swing the undecideds and independent's back toward Obama...

Romney basically bought in wholesale more or less, an tried to appropriate Obama's foreign policy experience and successes by saying quite a few times he completely agreed with Obama.

The Obama camp needs to run those statements coming out of Romney's mouth in a big big way. The rabid right doesn't want Romney to do anything but kick the ever-living heck out of Obama in every way, not agree with him on anything, like ever...

That's going to be my new argument with Wingers. I'm just going to tell them "Look, Romney pretty much will agree with Obama on anything, if it suits him! Is that the guy you want to be president?? Hasn't the Right gotten itself in trouble before by NOT voting in people who were conservative enough instead of...RINO'S?"

Nothing the wingers, hate more than a RINO who will work with "that Kenyan socialist."


Ouch. Romney is a Rino. Ha ha ha...
posted by Skygazer at 1:42 PM on October 23, 2012


Regarding "unsporting" killing methods: the Hutu militia in Rwanda killed an estimated 800,000 Tutsis by hand using machetes. The world didn't end up admiring them for the methods they used to commit genocide.
posted by ceribus peribus at 1:46 PM on October 23, 2012 [7 favorites]


Social Darwinism ftw amirite?

No, Social Darwinism is, by and large, trends to be the idea that we consciously try and direct our evolution, usually to weed out social undesirables.



Yeah.. give me a few moments irt the less violent bit, it doesn't come from my ass or any other part of my neither regions.
posted by edgeways at 1:47 PM on October 23, 2012


I am just confused as to why drones get all the focus when we're talking about military action.

Drones get a lot of focus today because our defense posturing is based on the behavior patterns established during the cold war. In the cold war you had to keep building big scary monsters and then showing them to the other side saying, "Look at our big scary monster. Aren't you afraid? Perhaps you'd like to negotiate with us instead of having us make more big scary monsters."

This was a factor in many tactical and almost all strategic weapons systems, the ultimate example being the B-70 Valkyrie, which was so scary the Soviets designed the MiG 25 to counter it. Then we shelved the B-70 as being not worth the trouble. Surprise!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 1:48 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Skygazer, it's hard to run negative ads saying "the other guy agrees with me -- what a maroon!" I'm sure they could make it work with the exact right messaging, pointing out that Romney is probably a wildcard instead of someone who would agree with Obama's foreign policy as much as he did in the debate, but in 30-second ads, there's not much room for nuance.

You're also implying that Romney's far-right voters will stay home, enabling Obama himself to win, rather than Romney (theoretically) executing Obama's foreign policy. I think that underestimates how much they hate Obama personally, and how much they disagree with him on economic and social issues (not that Mitt has any far-right credibility on those, either, but he's certainly trying to sell it that way.)

I think the best strategy right now is to point out how dreadful Mitt would be on economic issues, hit him hard on his lack of foreign policy experience rather than his foreign policy positions. No one can quite pin down what his positions are, but we all know he has no experience. (Pointing out that his experienced staffers are all old GWB hands couldn't hurt, either.)
posted by tonycpsu at 1:53 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wall Street Journal: A Perfectly Plausible President

That's the saddest, most feeble endorsement of a candidate that I can remember reading.
posted by octothorpe at 1:55 PM on October 23, 2012 [6 favorites]


Not using edit to add:

So the thing about drones is that we're still using the Cold War mentality and techniques: showing them off at airshows, publishing scary statistics and parameters, etc. but that is hardly going to work in the age of asymmetrical warfare. Unfortunately, the people are convinced that they need a big scary monster to keep them safe from the forces of darkness and if we have to spend however much you pay in taxes times 0.22 to keep it fed, then that's a bargain.

If you want something to really worry about, given how commonplace cheap civilian reconnaissance drones will seem in a few years (whether they can heft a hellfire missile or not), ask yourself what shiny new thing we're going to need to have in the 2020's to make people feel safe?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 1:57 PM on October 23, 2012


Shorter WSJ:

Romney -- Why the Hell Not?
posted by tonycpsu at 1:58 PM on October 23, 2012


here
and
here
and
here
and
everything here is worth listening to
and
here

there is a lot of dense non web stuff as well. Iraqi and Afghanistan are certainly horrible wars, but proportionately they can't hold a patch on what has gone on before. The Soviet Afghan war? At the high end 2 million people. The high end of the Iraq war is one million and much much lower for Afghanistan, somewhere under 20,000. but honestly case by case is not the answer, but global and systemic (sort of like climate change, we are always going to have brutal cold winters here and there despite the warming of the earth).

TL;DR Yeah, there actually is a fair bit of evidence we are becoming less violent.
posted by edgeways at 2:00 PM on October 23, 2012


I wonder if there's the possibility that Mitt's vertigo-inducing (nausea inducing as well), shameless, move to the center might not turn-off the extreme right to simply not vote for him, but swing the undecideds and independent's back toward Obama...

Nope. They may not like Romney, but they have a seething hatred of Obama and will happily take Romney over him.

No worries though. Obama will win.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:00 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


In other debate news: Larry King hosts third-party faceoff
posted by homunculus at 2:02 PM on October 23, 2012


In other debate news: Larry King hosts third-party faceoff

WHERE'S VERMIN SUPREME?
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:04 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


That baboon story was mindblowing. I heard it the other day and am still chewing on it.
posted by Miko at 2:04 PM on October 23, 2012


edgeways:

Hate to be pedantic, but social darwinism is the idea that some cultures (or races) are simply *superior* to others. How can you tell the superior culture? It's the one shoving a gun in your face, because "survival of the fittest, motherfucker!"

What you are describing is eugenics. Which is certainly informed by Social Darwinism, but not at all the same thing.
posted by absalom at 2:06 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


"You Don't Own Me" PSA
posted by homunculus at 2:09 PM on October 23, 2012 [12 favorites]


Yeah sorry, I should have been more specific. Do you have any cites from any peer reviewed journals. I believe this has already been discussed here before. So try again. Remember peer reviewed journal articles preferably from demographers or at least statisticians.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 2:09 PM on October 23, 2012


TL;DR Yeah, there actually is a fair bit of evidence we are becoming less violent.

We are, unintentionally by social practice, playing a direct role in our evolution. Want to know how long it takes to breed (evolve) a wild fox population from the wild to one that adores humans and is domesticated? 10 years.

Is this suggesting that we are less violent now for genetic reasons? Like human DNA has changed since Vietnam? It clearly seems to me that a reduction in global conflict, if true, is due to a changing political and economic global landscape. Its not inconceivable that we could descend into a major global conflict again at any time.
posted by Golden Eternity at 2:14 PM on October 23, 2012




Obama is back down to 57% on Intrade…
posted by Elementary Penguin at 2:19 PM on October 23, 2012


Yeah, you know what? Screw intrade and it's phony baloney nonsense.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:22 PM on October 23, 2012 [9 favorites]


This intrade thing is like fantasy sports with real money, right?

... rich people have some weird-ass hobbies.
posted by cmyk at 2:25 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]




Yeah, you know what? Screw intrade and it's phony baloney nonsense.

Every time I see people talking about intrade I just think what a wonderful demonstration it is of the centrality of market based thinking in the US. Ideology in practice.
posted by knapah at 2:26 PM on October 23, 2012 [6 favorites]


Want to know how long it takes to breed (evolve) a wild fox population from the wild to one that adores humans and is domesticated? 10 years.

Everybody loves a pedant, so I would like to point out this is selection - which is only part of evolution: not much new genetic information has been introduced in the fox population in only 10 years, you are just selecting for and amplifying preexisting cutenes and adorability genes.
posted by Dr Dracator at 2:26 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


From June, The Root of Mitt Romney's Comfort With Lying

From April, Bashir: Book of Mormon promises ‘eternal damnation’ for Romney’s lies:
According to Section 63, in verse 17, of The Doctrine and Covenants of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, “[T]he fearful, and the unbelieving, and all liars, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie, and the whoremonger, and the sorcerer, shall have their part in that lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

And the Book of Mormon’s 2 Nephi 9:34 says, “Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell.”

Bashir concluded: “Given what the Book of Mormon is clearly saying, Mr. Romney has but two choices. He can’t either keep lying and potentially win the White House, but bring eternal damnation upon himself or he can start telling the truth. The question for him, I guess, is which is more important?”
What Do Mormons Say About Lying?
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:28 PM on October 23, 2012


It's just odd, because Intrade has pretty closely followed the poll data since before the debates started, and now it's taken a crazy dive. I just wonder what's motivating people to sell.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 2:28 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Elementary Penguin: Check here for inTrade fixing details.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:41 PM on October 23, 2012


Washington Post takes a stab at explaining the Intrade swing here.

seems a similar thing happened in 2008. Some lone investor (Trump? idk sounds like something batshitinsane he'd do) appears to have been trying to influence the market.

The Atlantic also ran a story earlier today something along the lines of "The GOP is trying to game / con the system by shouting so loudly about Romney's "momentum" that it gets widely reported in the media as truth, and shame on the media for being so easily led down the garden path, etc..." - so apparently enough hacks have picked up on this idea and are rolling with it as "newsworthy" because true fact: tight presidential races sell waaayyyy more eyeballs than Myth RobMe being beaten like the lying sack of souless shit that he is.

tl;dr: QUIT YOUR HANDWRINGING, QUIT OVERTHINKING THE POLLS AND GO FUCKING VOTE! ALL OF YOU! (well, USians, I mean... the rest of you I hope this has been entertaining).
posted by lonefrontranger at 2:47 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


homunculus, I would expend my day's worth of favorites on your link to the Leslie Gore PSA if I could. I am going to send that to every woman I know. Good for her.
posted by madamjujujive at 2:49 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Right, that was this morning, but it's still been decreasing since yesterday, even excluding that spike. Besides which, the first comment on this Atlantic article is by someone from Intrade, who says the sales are not coming from one person.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 2:49 PM on October 23, 2012


Re Intrade:

The thing is that at this point Romney absolutely needs some kind of positive news to get the needle moving in his direction. Obama is very clearly in the lead, although his lead is indeed narrow. Every day that goes by without good news for Romney on some front is that much less of a chance to win both because he has less time to change opinion and because every day that goes by is a day Obama banks more votes. Every day that goes by without good news for Romney is another day the President makes a slight gain in the swing states.

They desperately need the news media to report on something that will help Romney, and intrade is one of the easiest ways to make that happen. If they manage to flip it, it will get reported. With the race this close, that could be enough to change perceptions just a little bit and give the Romney camp a bit of breathing room.
posted by wierdo at 2:51 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


homunculus, I would expend my day's worth of favorites on your link to the Leslie Gore PSA if I could. I am going to send that to every woman I know. Good for her.

Love the video. I see Tracee Ellis Ross. Sia Furler's in there. Maybe Natalie Dee. Who else?
posted by cashman at 3:07 PM on October 23, 2012




What Do Mormons Say About Lying?

Tithe harder?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:15 PM on October 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


Found this article about the Lesley Gore PSA that lists of bunch of contributors. (Personally spotted Tavi.) So moved and impressed by this.
posted by not.so.hip at 3:16 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


FPP if you're interested.
posted by cashman at 3:28 PM on October 23, 2012


Wall Street Journal: A Perfectly Plausible President
Would Mr. Romney say something so obviously misinformed, so manifestly silly, so revealingly ignorant as to disqualify him from serious consideration as a prospective commander-in-chief? He said nothing of the sort.
"Syria is Iran's only ally in the Arab world. It's their route to the sea."
posted by kirkaracha at 3:32 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Here's a TPM article about Ohio and how each candidate's decision, Obama agreeing to it and Romney saying no, could swing Ohio for Obama.

What's interesting to me is that Romney's decision to argue against the bailout was was said to be a political one, implying that Obama's was not. To me, Obama's decision was hugely motivated by politics, though it's unknown whether it was his sole reason. I'd like to think it wasn't, but it's hard to argue that politics didn't factor in at all. Not doing the bailout would anger a lot of voters and it's the sort of act they'd remember and more importantly, never forgive.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:35 PM on October 23, 2012


swing toward Romney appears to have been driven by a single trader who spent about $17,800 pushing Romney’s chances on Intrade up to 48 percent.

I understand that this is 1.78 times a standard bet in some circles. You betcha!
posted by ersatz at 3:45 PM on October 23, 2012


I have to say, the post-debate swaps have been awesome.
posted by cashman at 3:47 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Hey, it's Dennis Miller and Jay Leno.
posted by benito.strauss at 4:05 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Taking bets on The Donald's big reveal
An Irish company that bills itself as “Europe’s largest betting company” said it would start taking wagers on the nature of the revelation.

The best odds from Paddy Power, 2 to 5, went to an old Trump favorite: “Obama is not an American.”

Those looking for a long shot could go with “Obama wears a wig” at 500 to 1. Other betting options included: “Trump to endorse Obama” at 8 to 1, “Obama to guest on Trump’s reality show ‘Celebrity Apprentice’ ” at 50 to 1, “Obama knows the moon landing was staged” at 250 to 1 and “Obama is an alien” (whether extraterrestrial was not specified), also at 250 to 1.
Hmmm wonder what the odds are for "Obama uses fake tan"?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:06 PM on October 23, 2012


Glen Beck on why "Mitt did not punch back last night"
“I strongly believe that Mitt Romney is probably one of the most prayed for men on the planet right now. I believe Mr. Romney prays on his knees every day. I know he prays before the debates. I don’t know if it was the right thing, but I believe he is being guided and I believe he believes it’s important to be less contentious. It may be he’s doing what the Lord wants him to do right now. A lot of people that are conservatives and who have been walking down this road for a long time, we wanted him to eviscerate the President last night – metaphorically speaking. But our ways aren’t necessarily His ways. And I hope and pray and believe that Mitt Romney is trying to seek out His way,” Glenn said.

“We are now 14 days away. In two weeks’ time America goes to vote for the next President of the United States. In two weeks’ time we go to a polling booth. We close the curtain (along with the dead people that voted in the other booth), and we choose and the path couldn’t be clearer. It just couldn’t be clearer.”
And what the heck does that mean, "We close the curtain (along with the dead people that voted in the other booth)"? What dead people? What other booth? Is this a Mormon thing?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:16 PM on October 23, 2012


And what the heck does that mean, "We close the curtain (along with the dead people that voted in the other booth)"? What dead people? What other booth? Is this a Mormon thing?

I think it might be a crude way of implying that everyone making the "wrong choice" is only voting because they stole a dead person's identity anyway. Alternatively, Beck believes in zombie enfranchisement.
posted by jetlagaddict at 4:18 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


He is saying that the democrats are going to cheat and have dead people vote. Because of JFK.
posted by aspo at 4:18 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Maybe that "dead people" business is a Chicago politics jab? You know, a "Democrats are fixing the election" dog whistle?
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:19 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think we're all winners right now.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:19 PM on October 23, 2012


The guess I'm seeing (RE: Trump) is that Michelle once considered divorcing him. Whatever it is, my guess is it's about as exciting as Trump's surprise at the RNC.
posted by drezdn at 4:20 PM on October 23, 2012


Don't forget that the US has less halberds and men trained in their use than the Vatican. Absurd how weak on defense this President has been. He's practically begging for the Burgundians to invade.
I imagine we probably do have less than the Vatican, who have about 100, but we apparently do actually have at least one halberdier! I learned this, coincidentally, during Obama's inauguration. At some point - I believe before he started the walk down Pennsylvania Avenue - he was reviewing troops who were marching in front of him. Some were dressed as if in times long gone, and in the Revolutionary War portion, there was at least one halberdier. Here's a MeFi comment on it.
Ann Coulter trolled in her post debate tweet by calling Obama, "the retard."
Has Sarah Palin called her out for it yet?
posted by Flunkie at 4:22 PM on October 23, 2012 [7 favorites]




The guess I'm seeing (RE: Trump) is that Michelle once considered divorcing him.

I believe it (at least based on their marriage as presented in Jodi Kantor's book) but I think if anything it will help Obama: people will feel (1) this is their private business that shouldn't be exposed this way; (2) kudos to them to work through that hard time and rebuild their marriage to where it is right now; and (3) of all people to make this public, DONALD TRUMP is going to do it? Clown, please!

Now if Barack had considered divorcing Michelle, that's a different story.
posted by sallybrown at 4:26 PM on October 23, 2012


wierdo: "The thing is that at this point Romney absolutely needs some kind of positive news to get the needle moving in his direction. "

Sure, but "positive news" can be created out of thin air. Kevin Drum's hack gap has clearly been on display since the the beginning of debate season. This is how a debate that a vast majority of Americans believe Obama won suddenly becomes unimportant because this "isn't going to be a foreign policy election". This, along with the absurd idea that debates should be graded on a curve of "expectations" (set by the media themselves, natch) in turn allows members of the mainstream press to claim with a straight face that the two candidates have played to a draw in the 3-game series (with the blue team winning the single-game pee-wee game during intermission, I suppose.)

So it's actually worse than "fake it until you make it." Mitt barely even has to fake it at this point, with the press primed for a horse race. They'll highlight any hint of a positive blip for Romney so that the horse race can continue, facts (and Intrade) be damned.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:27 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


Plausible summary of plausible Mitt Romney's debate performances: "I'm just like the other guy, but white." His handlers decided he needed to lock up the undecided racist demographic.
posted by wierdo at 4:30 PM on October 23, 2012


So did anybody else get an ad for Romney's official website overlaid on the "You Don't Own Me" PSA? Way to go YouTube.
posted by localroger at 4:30 PM on October 23, 2012


Whatever happened to the income/wealth inequality problem in this country everyone was talking about a year ago? Why isn't that a major issue in this election?
posted by Golden Eternity at 4:31 PM on October 23, 2012


Trump pulls a Joaquin Phoenix/Stephen Colbert: He reveals that for the last 4 years he's been posing as an American Tea Party blowhard in order to infiltrate the organization and bring it down from within. Through his website, he releases hundreds of hours of secret tapes and conversations he's had with Tea Party leaders proving their cynicism, fakery, racism, and corruption.
posted by FJT at 4:34 PM on October 23, 2012 [10 favorites]


That's what the 47% thing was about.
posted by empath at 4:34 PM on October 23, 2012


Must read: How Romney made millions on the Detroit bail out and then shipped all the jobs to China.
The Nation discovered that, in the two weeks immediately following the announcement of the Delphi jobs-saving plan, Paul Singer, Romney's partner, secretly bought up over a billion dollars of old Delphi bonds for pennies on the dollar.

Singer and partners now controlled the company - and killed the return of Delphi to GM.
[snip]
Sheehan said, under oath, that these speculators threatened to withhold key parts (steering columns), from GM. This would have brought the auto maker to its knees, immediately forcing GM's permanent closure.

The extortion worked. The government money that was supposed to go to save jobs went to Singer's hedge fund, Elliott Management Corporation and its partners, including the Romneys.

Once Singer's crew took control of Delphi, they rapidly completed the move to China, sticking the US taxpayers with the bill for the pensions of the Delphi workers cut loose.
I thought I could not hate Romney more...I was mistaken. How this is legal, I don't even know. It is despicable behavior and the man who wants to be the President was right in the middle of it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:36 PM on October 23, 2012 [32 favorites]


So Trump reveals that HE'S the secret waiter at the Romney fundraiser!
posted by FJT at 4:37 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


localroger: "So did anybody else get an ad for Romney's official website overlaid on the "You Don't Own Me" PSA? Way to go YouTube."

He's been all over Youtube. I don't see YT ads on my computer, but I do on my tablet. Damn near everything I've watched has had a Romney or guy talking about eevil socialism preroll for the past week.
posted by wierdo at 4:40 PM on October 23, 2012


Josh Romney is the Slenderman of this campaign.
posted by angrycat at 4:43 PM on October 23, 2012 [7 favorites]


if romney looked presidential last night it was as president of a nation of bullying pasty-mouthed lizard people who always might be pooping. - tweet today by Zachary Quinto
posted by argonauta at 4:44 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Malkin Slams Coulter For Calling Obama 'Retard': 'What A Stupid, Shallow Thing To Say'.

I suspect she's going for Roddy Piper's old job in the remake of They Live that Universal has been making noises about.

I kid, but you have to admit, FOX News makes a lot more sense through the lense of the Professional Wrestling.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 4:48 PM on October 23, 2012


The guess I'm seeing (RE: Trump) is that Michelle once considered divorcing him.

Yeah, stay classy Trump. Assuming this is true and assuming that is what Trump wants to share, what a shitty thing to do.

"Hey, here's some shitty personal stuff I found that is going to make Obama's kids feel bad. Romney 2012 and watch the next season of The Apprentice."

Trump deserves to have all of his nose hair simultaneously yanked out.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:51 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


Maybe Trump's gonna Rickroll us.
posted by Flunkie at 4:54 PM on October 23, 2012


Now if Barack had considered divorcing Michelle, that's a different story.

He's a Kenyan Muslim Communist Manchurian candidate, not an idiot.
posted by howfar at 4:55 PM on October 23, 2012 [15 favorites]


Naturally, I'll be including a link to The Peloponnesian War in my profile now.

Someone should do a new post about The Peloponnesian War here:

Random ironic smartass: Let's get Nicias to lead the Sicilian Expedition!
Nicias: No, really, no I'm not into leading this, and I think it's a bad idea because...
The Rabble: Yeah! Yeah! Nicias! Nicias! NI-CI-AS! NI-CI-AS! (etc)...
posted by ovvl at 4:59 PM on October 23, 2012


Forget 538 and all those other guys, the Halloween Mask index has Obama winning in a landslide!
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:59 PM on October 23, 2012


Did Palin retweet the Coulter "retard" tweet?
posted by drezdn at 5:02 PM on October 23, 2012


The real October surprise: "You're hired."
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:10 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]






Here is the divorce story.
posted by empath at 5:12 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, hell, Mittens would privately promise to trill his tongue over each LCR's frenulum if he thought it would net him a single vote — but there's no way that he'd actually follow through.
posted by klangklangston at 5:14 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Re: Drones. I've been looking for a long time for statistics on civilian deaths caused by US military action, but divided between unmanned drones vs. manned incursions, and it's been tricky to find. Either one is reprehensible, but it seems strange to me that Obama is unfavorably compared to Bush on this matter. But maybe we have actually been killing more civilians with drones than with manned attack vectors?

Yeah, this has been bugging me as well. If you take the position that some sort of strike is necessary, The drone program seems like a much more acceptable alternative to the previous administration's "shock and awe" doctrine. There were estimated to be approx. 6,000 civilian casualties in the invasion phase of the Iraq war. It also seems preferable to a situation like what happened in Somalia. Even going back, I remember when Reagan bombed Libya. That mission used 18 bombers to drop 60 tons of munitions, in what seemed to be a "lets just hope we hit something useful" strategy.

I'm not in favor of dropping bombs on anyone, but I sometimes get riled up at people assigning evil motives to Obama's strategies as commander in chief. We are a country at war. People seem to forget that. It sucks, but we hired him to do that job.
posted by billyfleetwood at 5:14 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Oh Trump, you vapid little shit. If the First Lady considered divorce in the past and he's banking on that nasty invasion of privacy to score points, I hope he enjoys the experience of Michelle Obama smoothly devastating him in a response, if he's even deemed worthy of one. Did he forget her DNC speech? She's dynamite in front of a camera, if he attacks her she'll shame his smarmy orange ass and come out looking like a champ, probably giving her husband's campaign a few more points among women voters in the process.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:16 PM on October 23, 2012 [11 favorites]


Also, if Trump plays that card it would invite a response along the lines of "All marriages go through tough times, but divorcing my husband would have been the biggest regret of my life and I'm thankful every day that I didn't do it", which is a really nice parallel to the "We know it's been a tough 4 years, but change takes time, and if you stick with me I know how to get us out of this and into better days" narrative that the Obama campaign has. It would be stupid to come out with something that not only doesn't stumble the campaign, but actually resonates with their narrative.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:24 PM on October 23, 2012 [9 favorites]


Re: Drones

This has been argued to death on the blue, and I don't want to rehash, but I think this is a fair summary: Those defending (or less opposed) to drones agree with what billyfleetwood just said -- if you assume some kind of war is necessary, drones cause fewer civilian casualties. Those who disagree say that civilian casualties are underestimated, and point to the Obama administration's shameful decision to count any male over 16 killed by a drone strike as an enemy until proven otherwise. They further characterize drone strikes as extrajudicial executions rather than acts of war, and argue that the fact that attackers face no direct risk makes attacks more likely.

The most objective source on drone strikes is a British NGO called the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. They generally are opposed to drones and charge abuses like attacking funerals and first responders in follow-up attacks. At the same time, they document civilian casualties much lower than more traditional forms of attack (invasion, bombing, artillery) and say that casualties among women and children have dropped dramatically since 2010 when the Obama administration made a concerted effort to minimize civilian deaths and injuries.
posted by msalt at 5:25 PM on October 23, 2012 [7 favorites]


Yeah, I really think evidence of garden-variety marital problems could create a landslide of support for the President by reminding voters that the first family is a regular couple that goes through regular shit the way we all do. Donald Trump is not a well-liked figure in America, and his schtick consisists of firing people on television. An attack like this from a guy like him timed to throw the election to Romney seems likely to create a backlash. Obviously there are wild cards (if there are allegations of infidelity in the papers, etc.) but if it's just "they went through a rocky patch a long time ago" I think it helps the President at a time when he really needs to increase his margin past the dirty tricks threshold.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:26 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's also pretty rich coming from a guy with two divorces under his belt.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:32 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'd be truly shocked at the depth of stupidity if the divorce papers are indeed Trump's bombshell. The backlash would be enormous, even if they were current or since 2008.

But from 12 years ago? That's just laughable. For now, I'm going to think that that'd be too good to be true. Your serve, Donald.
posted by ipe at 5:35 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt may have promised the Log Cabin Republicans to pass the Employment Non-Discrimination Act in return for their endorsement

I somehow doubt his faith will allow him to do any such thing. But, conversely, I wouldn't be surprised if the LCR buys such a promise. Still, he must be in dire straits if he's making deals with gays for votes.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:38 PM on October 23, 2012


This comment from The New York Mag article that empath linked had me in stitches.

Teewrecks:
If I'm this mad at Captain Combover in advance of whatever fart symphony he has planned for us tomorrow, that's not a good sign. For him, I mean.

I'm white, straight, female, middle class, and in my 40s. I have no personal reason to identify with our President. But I do feel deep affection for him and his family, and I am so freaking tired of the abuse they have taken from carnival sideshows like this guy. It upsets me: as a married woman, as a person who cares about other people, as an American. I would very much like to see The Orange Peril eat s**t and die.

Doesn't matter what he has to say tomorrow. I'm serving up blowback, and I know I won't be the only one. It's gonna hit Trump, his party, his candidate, and every wingnut birther in these fifty states.

Bring it, you freaking swollen Oompa-Loompa. But be ready to reap what you sow.
From fart symphony to swollen Oompa-Loompa, lady, I take my hat off to you.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:45 PM on October 23, 2012 [45 favorites]


The fake "divorce papers" are just an attempt to stir up rumors about Obama's sexuality. It is the old political hack's trick of forcing your opponent to deny it.
posted by humanfont at 5:46 PM on October 23, 2012


So anyone want to guess what Gloria Allred's October Surprise! is?
an emergency hearing in an attempt to obtain a court order to unseal the sworn testimony given by Mitt Romney in a prior court case and to lift a gag order so that the parties can speak about Romney. Gloria Allred will be in court representing one of the parties in the case," a source close to the situation tells RadarOnline.com.

The emergency hearing will take place at the Norfolk Probate & Family Court in Canton, Massachusetts, and Justice Jennifer Ulwick will oversee the proceedings which will begin at 9 a.m. EST.
Probate & Family Court?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:53 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


I saw a facebook comment the other day that seriously said Obama is gay. I know that dumb rumor is going around but I never in a million years would have ever thought that people actually believed it.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:53 PM on October 23, 2012


"We're not going to be able to solve our problems if we get distracted by sideshows and carnival barkers."
posted by cashman at 5:57 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Oh god there's a whole book out on it. I linked it before but I can't remember what the title is. The long and short of it is one man asserts that Obama had an affair with a guy at Jeremiah Wright's church and then killed 3 members of the church so his secret would be safe.

OK Here it is although I feel kind of scummy googling it: Cocaine, Sex, Lies & Murder by Barak Obama and Larry Sinclair. Note the Publisher: Sinclair Publishing, Inc. (June 15, 2009)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:02 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


I saw a facebook comment the other day that seriously said Obama is gay.

This Changes Everything
posted by homunculus at 6:06 PM on October 23, 2012


OK Here it is although I feel kind of scummy googling it: Cocaine, Sex, Lies & Murder by Barak Obama and Larry Sinclair. Note the Publisher: Sinclair Publishing, Inc. (June 15, 2009)

With foreword by Jeff Rense, so you know it's of primo conspiracy vintage. It's been ages since I checked out Rense's site (maybe circa 9/11). I'm glad to see he's still emulating the mimeographed handbill aesthetic.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:11 PM on October 23, 2012


So, is anyone watching the third party debates on Cspan right now?
posted by triggerfinger at 6:12 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]




twist my arm: "Romney’s Big Navy Guru Made Millions From Building Ships"

is there nothing in this election that can't be explained by either money or stupidity (and frequently both)?
War is a racket. It always has been.—Major General Smedley D. Butler, USMC, Ret.
posted by ob1quixote at 6:13 PM on October 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


Holy crap, Rachel Maddow just exploded over the Iran map thing and Mitt's lack of interest in foreign affairs.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:13 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


From fart symphony to swollen Oompa-Loompa, lady, I take my hat off to you.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy


I too paused and savored that Teewrecks comment, hats off to ya for calling attention to it. Fine writing. Come to think of it, President Obama could use someone who does High Dudgeon that well on his staff. It would come in handy in the shitstorm of the next 2 weeks.
posted by spitbull at 6:17 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Btw, it's Jill Stein, Rocky Anderson, Gary Johnson and Virgil Goode. Moderated by Larry King.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:18 PM on October 23, 2012


Romney Says He’s Winning — It’s a Bluff

This is a bluff. Romney is carefully attempting to project an atmosphere of momentum, in the hopes of winning positive media coverage and, thus, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Why does it seem like the media is echoing Romney's framing of the election for the last few weeks. After the debate PBS in particular, and other networks, were saying all Romney needed was to look presidential in the third debate because he had all the momentum, even though Obama won the second debate and was recovering in the poles, according to 538. I expect this from the WSJ, but PBS? Mark Shields was so disappointing in the post-debate discussion, and Brooks had Romney as the winner. WTF?
posted by Golden Eternity at 6:18 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]




Ratings.
posted by empath at 6:22 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]




Actor Jason Alexander (George on Seinfeld) wrote an excellent essay about why he's voting for Obama.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:32 PM on October 23, 2012 [6 favorites]




Boy, this God guy sounds like a real jerk.
posted by Flunkie at 6:37 PM on October 23, 2012 [17 favorites]


Trump's big bombshell is that the Obamas were able to work their marriage troubles out.

Well alright then. This just may cost him the election.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 6:44 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Trump's thought process: "When people found out about my marriage difficulties, they all thought I was an asshole. Surely they'll think Obama is an asshole when they find out about his.

Shorter Trump thought process: "Ulululululululu."
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:47 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


“I’ve struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God,” Mourdock said. “And even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”

And then... as if on cue.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 6:53 PM on October 23, 2012 [6 favorites]


Trump is such a loathsome sack of puke.

My theory is that if this was anything truly significant, it wouldn't be coming from Trump, it would be coming from some Right-wing news mouthpiece, Fox/Drudge whatever and furthermore, the news wouldn't be played up for maximum publicity and suspense. That sort of a move is pure sideshow/carny suckerbait.
posted by Skygazer at 6:55 PM on October 23, 2012


Donald is at this moment filming Celebrity Apprentice, and probably would like some publicity.

I expect tomorrow to be underwhelming.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:58 PM on October 23, 2012


I wonder, though... the Romney camp must have gotten in touch with Trump, if only to ask what the "surprise" is.

And you'd have to think Trump wouldn't hide it from the campaign if he actually thinks it would help them -- that'd be really weird, wouldn't it?

And if it was something crappy, or something that could backfire on Romney (like this divorce papers story), the Romney folks would have told Trump to back off, right?

And conversely, if it were actually something significant, wouldn't the Romney people be happier for an outside party (even if it was someone like Trump) to break the story?

ugh I hate myself for taking this seriously ugh ugh I need a shower and one of those scrubby things
posted by saturday_morning at 7:16 PM on October 23, 2012


Watching the alternative debate. Biggest impression? Virgil Goode is one straight-shootin' motherfucker. I disagree with just about everything out of his mouth, but his forthrightness is refreshing. (As a Virginian, I hope he gets a lot of Romney's votes.)
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:19 PM on October 23, 2012


Trump is crazy, and I wouldn't put it past him to decide he knew better than Romney's handlers.

He's a birther. He hasn't an ounce of sense.
posted by rifflesby at 7:20 PM on October 23, 2012


And if it was something crappy, or something that could backfire on Romney (like this divorce papers story), the Romney folks would have told Trump to back off, right?

I would expect that conversation to go like this:

Mitt Romney: "Donald, I am personally calling you to ask you please not to do this."
Donald Trump: "No offense Mitt, but you're talking to someone really knowledgeable here. I really know better in this situation. Fuck off."

The only thing The Donald has been good for in his whole entitled, phony life is orchestrating the absolutely epic, absurd, will-live-in-infamy Celebrity Apprentice 4--especially Gary Busey and Meatloaf's fight over craft supplies.
posted by sallybrown at 7:25 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]




The Undisclosed Mitt Romney

"A Romney victory will make it possible for future candidates to take the same path of secretiveness. Non-disclosure could become the norm.

Perhaps just as interesting, Romney has demonstrated that the press is relatively toothless — that a candidate who is willing to take the heat for a while can outlast the media. During the Republican convention in Tampa, Neil Newhouse, a Romney pollster, famously said, “We’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers.” In private, some of Newhouse’s Republican colleagues said that they thought he was making a mistake by throwing down the gauntlet to a group of reporters like that. In practice, his challenge was never taken up.

No matter what happens on Nov. 6, this position of massive resistance is likely to become integral to campaign strategy in the future. There is an ongoing debate over the effectiveness of fact-checking by newspapers and independent organizations. But looked at from a strategic point of view, Newhouse’s position appears to have worked.

With the candidates running neck-and-neck 2 weeks before Election Day, Romney has no choice but to walk a tightrope on either side of which lie his irreconcilable claims. His own party has moved so far to the right that the path to the nomination forces Republican candidates to adopt positions that cannot be sold in the general election. To accommodate both the conservative wing of his party and the demands of mainstream voters has required Romney to dodge tough questions. In many ways he has gotten away with it.

The truth is that a candidate who campaigns on the promise that he will turn the economy around cannot be forthright. America is approaching the so-called fiscal cliff. In January, the terms of the Budget Control Act of 2011 are scheduled to go into effect — the end of both the Bush tax cuts and payroll tax cuts and the slashing of $100 billion in defense and domestic spending known as sequestration. Whoever wins the election will jettison his campaign promises. Political cynicism will almost certainly deepen.

But even judged by the standards of past dichotomies between election pledges and the realities of governing, Romney has placed himself in an exceptionally untenable position. This season’s rhetoric has exposed the spuriousness of the inflated promises of the Republican nominee. The approaching emergency is real. Those who hope for Romney’s victory should pay attention to what he hasn’t said as much as to what he has."
posted by cashman at 7:38 PM on October 23, 2012 [7 favorites]


"OK Here it is although I feel kind of scummy googling it: Cocaine, Sex, Lies & Murder by Barak Obama and Larry Sinclair. Note the Publisher: Sinclair Publishing, Inc. (June 15, 2009)"

Man, I gotta get me a pen name and start writing some of this conservative horseshit. There's gotta be money in charging these yobbos $12.95 for an ebook that tells 'em that the president is a secret gay or that he's half horse (Centaur In Chief) or some shit.
posted by klangklangston at 7:43 PM on October 23, 2012 [6 favorites]


I am soothing my nerves by imagining that R-Money is, somehow, channeling Ralph Wiggum when it comes to expressing his thoughts.

"Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong-Un were in the closet and they were making babies and one of the babies tried to nuke me."
posted by cmyk at 7:47 PM on October 23, 2012 [8 favorites]


Nate Silver ‏@fivethirtyeight
Guess I'll have to do the whole thought dump on Intrade for tomorrow's column.


Intrade was down to 54% a minute ago.
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:51 PM on October 23, 2012


“I’ve struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God,” Mourdock said. “And even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”

Sadly, putting all your faith in God's Grand Designs is not unique to men. An older white lady, when asked about the Colorado movie theater shootings back in July, said something along the lines of "it's all part of God's plan" or "it was God's will." Sure, she wasn't an elected official, but this was directly after 70 people had been shot, a number of them already dead at the scene. The ability to shrug it off and say "this somehow fits into Gods plan" is so distant from what I thought of mass shootings and women getting impregnated from rape. I mean, it's nice to be able to say "there was a reason for this, even if I don't understand it," but it's glossing over the larger, uglier issues behind the tragedies.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:54 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


I think it's best to ignore Intrade as a polling reference. After all, stocks rise and fall on whims and mere utterances. Also, such trading is done in the self-interest of the trader, looking to score on the successes and failures of companies, economies, and communities.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:56 PM on October 23, 2012


"Wait, so if I punched you in the face, it'd be God's plan and you'd be cool with it?"
posted by klangklangston at 7:57 PM on October 23, 2012 [11 favorites]


said something along the lines of "it's all part of God's plan" or "it was God's will."

The traditional formulation is "Deus Vult", meaning "God wills it." Used for all your slaughtering of innocents needs.
posted by Justinian at 8:05 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]




Harry Reid On Mitt Romney's Taxes:

{{{ I'm His 'One-Man Wrecking Crew' }}}


Holy crap, does Harry Reid want to kick the ever living stuffing out of Mitts Romney, it's so awesome.


Hooray for Harry !
posted by Skygazer at 8:41 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


It would be pretty easy to move the Intrade market. It's very small, and the money behind Romney could easily move it a long way.

If the market participants don't actually care about profit, they can probably make that number come out any way they want, at least until other big-money players get wind of the easy pickings.
posted by Malor at 8:41 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


"I need a shower and one of those scrubby things."

Just don't borrow Bill OReilly's.

Guys, so bummed reading about Trump's supposed allegations.

After doing a bit of volunteer phone work early last summer I'd been hit again recently with some requests to help GOTV. But suddenly I'm just burned out in general on politics.

I'm a baby boomer, so I've seen a lot of crap politics. But I think the past dozen years of heightened exposure thanks to the Net exacerbates the burnout.

And then I had to spend a fair amount of time this weekend just trying to figure out my local representation.(I just moved.) I think the mostly Republican township government couldn't keep up with all the gerrymamdering the mostly Republican state legislature has done. So the twp. sent me the wrong info on what districts I'm in!
posted by NorthernLite at 8:43 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Wait, so if I punched you in the face, it'd be God's plan and you'd be cool with it?"

No, he'd still want you in jail. But, obviously, he shouldn't seek treatment for the injury.
posted by Malor at 8:43 PM on October 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


#RAPEpublican
posted by liza at 8:48 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


It would be pretty easy to move the Intrade market. It's very small, and the money behind Romney could easily move it a long way.

As Nate Silver points out, Intrade is an outlier compared to other betting sites. If the difference is large enough, I don't see why people aren't making easy money taking both sides of the bet.

Ohio is at 50% on Intrade now!
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:53 PM on October 23, 2012


After doing a bit of volunteer phone work early last summer I'd been hit again recently with some requests to help GOTV. But suddenly I'm just burned out in general on politics.

I think I speak for most people here when I say, please, please help out with GOTV if you can muster the energy. This election is going to hinge on turnout -- you can be worth a lot more than your one vote.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:53 PM on October 23, 2012 [6 favorites]


Because American lives are supposed to be valued more.
Of course they do, to Americans. Everyone values members of their own "tribe" over those who exist out of the group.


I think you might be surprised at how much stronger this sentiment is amongst Americans. In the sense that, in my experience, only American rhetoric is able to completely discount the value of non-American lives. Granted, it's possible that people hear it louder than it's said, simply because of the disproportionate power that the US wields in the world today. I would argue that this disproportionate power, and the fact that US leaders routinely call themselves the leaders of the free world, give US leaders a greater responsibility to place an equal value on all human lives, rather than only thinking about lives in other countries when they can be counted in thousands or more.
posted by bardophile at 8:59 PM on October 23, 2012 [9 favorites]


^ Haven't watched the third and final debate yet, so shouldn't be scanning this thread, but some things just jump out:
"In the end, what was striking was that neither candidate wanted to get into a discussion of the changed world we find ourselves in at the dawn of the twenty-first century, [...] It is much easier for countries to say no to Washington, doing nothing to hinder us but not actively assisting either."

The World doesn't want a Romney hegemony. If you don't believe that you've not been listening. (May I say: nothing unusual there.) However, Romney will be so much easier to defy, believe it or not.

If you take the long view, four years of Romney may just kick over any remaining hope of another American Century. The World is over complying with Washington Warmongers; Europe is bankrupt; apparently the US isn't bankrupt *and a raised eyebrow to that*; and the rest of us are interested in continuing along the Path to Prosperity that demonstrably goes via lucrative peaceful trade relations with the Asia-Pacific group of growing nations, (of which Obama's hegemony is now, still unconvincingly, said to be a member).

Decent foreign policy has never been America's strong card. (How's the home front's nuclear disarmament moving along? ... want help with that?)

It's surprising Obama didn't speak to the glaringly obvious sun-up of the new century and its impact on foreign policy. Maybe America's not ready to hear it, and Romney represents its last ditched attempt. It seems obvious (to me) that a Romney led Washington, along a Ryan Path to Prosperity goes up a dead-end street.

Obama's all too aware (I think).
Reform is mighty slow for the mighty.
posted by de at 9:05 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


I like this comment in the homunculus article (which wasn't very enlightening to me):

When it comes to Syria, like CHINATOWN, maybe we're all like Jake: we may think we know what's going on, but we don't.

Syria? Libya? Pakistan? "Forget it, Jake, it's Chinatown!"
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:06 PM on October 23, 2012


I am just confused as to why drones get all the focus when we're talking about miltiary action.

In no particular order:
1) Because it's a newer form of military action. It gets attention in the way chemical weapons got attention and biological weapons got attention.
2) The "eye in the sky" freaks everyone out.
3) The overtones of "you have been judged, sentence has been passed, your presence at the trial was deemed unnecessary."
4) The much touted supposed precision (can you tell I'm skeptical?) makes this very different from "sending in the troops." Supposedly, some particular person has been singled out. There's a sense that if you have been targeted, they will figure out a way to find you. I suspect this feeling is much stronger for people who don't actually live lives that will get them targeted, but that's just speculation on my part.

So basically, I think the psychological impact of drone warfare is much different than that of bombers.
posted by bardophile at 9:10 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


The overtones of "you have been judged, sentence has been passed, your presence at the trial was deemed unnecessary."

Overtones? Overtones?
posted by Malor at 9:23 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


TMZ has info on the potential Gloria Allred October surprise; apparently she represents the ex-wife of Staples co-founder Tom Stemberg:
Mitt Romney was heavily involved in the extremely messy divorce of one of his key supporters and the Boston Globe is going to court first thing Wednesday morning in an attempt to unseal the court file as well as lift a gag order, TMZ has learned. The divorce was between Staples co-founder Tom Stemberg and his first wife Maureen. We're told the divorce battle lasted for years and was extremely ugly. Sources tell us Romney gave both a deposition in the divorce and testified in the trial. According to our sources, the Boston Globe got a tip that there was "juicy information about Romney" in the sealed documents. Romney, Stemberg and Maureen were all served papers by the Globe notifying them that the paper was trying to unseal the case and lift the gag order enforced on all parties. According to an article in the Boston Globe in 2005, Maureen received nearly 500,000 shares of Staples stock in the divorce but sold half her shares before the company went public. Our sources say Tom has filed papers opposing the Globe's motion. Romney's lawyers have not responded.
posted by sallybrown at 9:29 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Mitt Romney had an affair with Tom Stemberg? Nooo!
Where's my Twitter account? BRB
posted by de at 9:36 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


de: "How's the home front's nuclear disarmament moving along?"

Better than it has gone in many years, thanks to New START. We'll still be able to annihilate every populated place in Russia, but getting down to 800 launchers with no more than 1,550 deployed warheads on each side is still a remarkable achievement.

There's lots more to do, but the process continues despite your cynicism.
posted by wierdo at 9:40 PM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Malor: mea culpa
posted by bardophile at 9:40 PM on October 23, 2012


Granted, it's possible that people hear it louder than it's said, simply because of the disproportionate power that the US wields in the world today.

I remember reading an article on Tintin a while ago. They were talking about the difference in mentality of people from larger countries as opposed to smaller countries. Since Tintin's creator, Herge, was from Belgium, Tintin's adventures really did not feature him overthrowing other governments or affecting change in another country.

As a counterpoint, US fictional heroes, whether Master Chief in Halo or Batman, seem to become leaders and affect great change on entire cities or even planets.

To bring it back to the topic being discussed, I think the disproportionate power wielded by the US can affect great change, but it also creates a situation where we have in our possession a large hammer, and thus all problems begin to look like nails. The potential pitfall I see in weighing American lives equally to foreign lives comes when "the right to protect" is involved. If US leaders weighed foreign lives and US lives equally, then if foreign lives are being killed in another country (whether in civil war or genocide), then the US may intervene.

There's also the potential for abuse of intervention. I recall that during the buildup to the Iraqi invasion, there was also a case built up that Saddam slaughtered and gassed the Kurds, and how the US must put a stop to it.

I do agree that a US president should value human life in general, though I'm not sure if it should be equal to that of US life. The only reason I say this is because by placing more value on a US life, the hope is there is more thoughtful deliberation when deciding whether or not to intervene.
posted by FJT at 10:26 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


> I do agree that a US president should value human life in general, though I'm not sure if it should be equal to that of US life. The only reason I say so is because by placing more value on a US life, the hope is there is more thoughtful deliberation when deciding whether or not to intervene.

How so? What deliberation went into lifting Robert Bales to safety after the Kandahar massacre. That was pure Washington reflex.
posted by de at 10:37 PM on October 23, 2012


Wikipedia Comparison of Presidential Candidates

This wikipedia article is coming up in the first google news election item and seems to me to be biased in favor of Romney. The deficit section doesn't mention the increases to defense spending.... There is no section on medicare.... I'm sure there is more.
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:43 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Still really super curious about this. Where are these 79 EVs from?

States that lean Obama but have Republican controlled legislatures and governors. Off the top of my head:

Florida
Maine
Michigan
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Virginia

Call a special session in each state the shortly before the election, ram through legislation pledging the states electors to Romney and have the governor sign it.

What are the red states going to do? Not vote for a conservative just because their guy stole the election? It's not like they're going to see 21 completely Republican controlled state governments again to pull off a stunt like this.
posted by Talez at 10:44 PM on October 23, 2012


The divorce thing is probably nothing, though the globes involvement gives me pause.
posted by empath at 10:49 PM on October 23, 2012


How so? What deliberation went into lifting Robert Bales to safety after the Kandahar massacre.

My previous thoughts were mainly for deciding when to intervene. Though I will say that valuing a US life is not at odds with enforcing law and order.

Also with Robert Bales, I would say this is what happens when you try to turn hammers into plowshares.
posted by FJT at 10:54 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Thanks for responding, Talez! I'd been wondering since I first saw your comment. Definitely a scary thing to think about, but one would hope most of those legislators and governors would fear that they're flushing their career futures down the toilets. And maybe it would offend their senses of decency, but I'm betting more on self interest.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:57 PM on October 23, 2012


Yeah, that would pretty much be a decision to burn down the entire country. Given the tremendous fear U.S. elites have of strikes and riots, much less revolution, I don't see it happening.
posted by gerryblog at 11:19 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Well Mourdock (R running for Senate from IN) might just have pulled a minor Akin:
"Life is that gift from God. I think that even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something God intended to happen."
Supposedly was a close election, this may tip it so late in the game.
posted by edgeways at 11:38 PM on October 23, 2012


Trump and Allred both are subject to my curse. Their motives are questionable, their humanity suspect.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:47 PM on October 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


Yeah, if that's indeed what Allred's hyping up it's pretty distasteful and idiotic. "I've got a great idea to help Obama, I'll lower the national discourse even further!"
posted by jason_steakums at 12:03 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


GOP Senate candidate Tom Smith: My daughter's out-of-wedlock pregnancy is just like rape! In fairness, he did point out that he doesn't condone rape.
posted by dirigibleman at 12:14 AM on October 24, 2012


Someone with a stronger stomach than I should go through and put together a clip vid of all the god damn rape comments by GOPers this cycle, and whenever someone says "What war on women?" they should be strapped to a chair and made to watch it Clockwork Orange style for a few days.
Fucking hell
posted by edgeways at 12:28 AM on October 24, 2012 [10 favorites]


The much touted supposed precision (can you tell I'm skeptical?) makes this very different from "sending in the troops." Supposedly, some particular person has been singled out. There's a sense that if you have been targeted, they will figure out a way to find you.

If you rephrase this more neutrally, I think you can say that drones mark the culmination of a long shift from fighting for control of land, to attacking individual people. (The shift began with rifles and other weapons at a distance; artillery, bombers. But those remained indiscriminate, except for snipers, and so at least notionally remained about territory.)

The real game changer with drones is not the remote attack; those other weapons offer it too, as do missiles, landmines and IEDs. In fact, heat seeking missiles, which have been around for years, are the real killer robots that people complain about while drones are not, since a human guides them.

No, the real game changer with drones is the camera in it, and the ability to surveil your target for days or weeks before striking. This is what makes it personal. This is why Obama is personally reviewing a target list, with names and faces. Critics paint that as creepy; I think he is owning his attacks in a way no leader has done since kings lead their troops into battle. Pointing and saying "Him. I take responsibility for the death of that man. If anyone else dies, we have failed."
posted by msalt at 12:46 AM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


Pointing and saying "Him. I take responsibility for the death of that man. If anyone else dies, we have failed."

Except, of course, that it's "Him. And the people who are around him right now. And if any of them are male and over 16, they are automatically combatants, and therefore, legitimate targets, too, even though I haven't specifically pointed them out. And if we fail, even under this definition of fail, we will not answer to anyone about that failure."

I'm not sure I see that as an improvement.
posted by bardophile at 12:58 AM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


I think msalt is essentially correct, but would add that drones are nearly the natural extension of war-making. The primary problem most of the population has is not that we are AT WAR, but that OUR BRAVE TROOPS are in harms way and get killed. Drones allow for war, with no troops placed at harm... IN ADDITION to the possibility that it allows for war-making with fewer overall casualties (on both sides). As many innocents that get cause in a drone strike, there would be exponentially more caught in mortar shelling, or bombing run by planes.

Which highlights the seductiveness of why leaders may fall in love with drones. I hate them, but I totally see why they get used.
posted by edgeways at 1:06 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


bardophile: "Except, of course, that it's "Him. And the people who are around him right now."

It would be only mildly less disturbing if we had a death ray that killed the target with zero collateral damage. Better for people surrounding the targets of our ire, though.
posted by wierdo at 1:20 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


It would be only mildly less disturbing if we had a death ray that killed the target with zero collateral damage.

Oh, I agree. That wouldn't do anything to reduce the creepiness of drones.
posted by bardophile at 1:27 AM on October 24, 2012


It seems obvious (to me) that a Romney led Washington, along a Ryan Path to Prosperity goes up a dead-end street.

America would survive it. I think you could travel in time to any point in America's history, take a long drink of her political and social realities, and conclude, "Oh man no, these fucking morons cannot last. Whatever big decision they are about to make next is probably it for them."

the rest of us are interested in continuing along the Path to Prosperity that demonstrably goes via lucrative peaceful trade relations with the Asia-Pacific group of growing nations

You sell the devil you know a bit cheap.
posted by fleacircus at 1:49 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Pointing and saying "Him. I take responsibility for the death of that man. If anyone else dies, we have failed."

But how meaningful is that attitude it in a broader sense? If it's the wrong person or bystanders get killed in the process, other than on a peronal level that failure weighing on his conscience (and probably very heavily), there are no actual consequences for the president, right?
posted by moody cow at 1:54 AM on October 24, 2012


A president being a power unto himself goes against everything this country was founded on and that's exactly what the drone program represents. There are no trials or even the pretense of transparency. This way is madness. Obama is an evil man and anyone who votes for him is complicit. Period. Same goes for Romney. Vote Jill Stein. A vote for the republicans or democrats is a vote for the expansion and continuation of our current system of government which is a kind of "inverted totalitarianism."


Over the past two years, as I have moved to break the betrayal of my own silences and to speak from the burnings of my own heart, as I have called for radical departures from the destruction of Vietnam, many persons have questioned me about the wisdom of my path. At the heart of their concerns this query has often loomed large and loud: Why are you speaking about war, Dr. King? Why are you joining the voices of dissent? Peace and civil rights don't mix, they say. Aren't you hurting the cause of your people, they ask? And when I hear them, though I often understand the source of their concern, I am nevertheless greatly saddened, for such questions mean that the inquirers have not really known me, my commitment or my calling. Indeed, their questions suggest that they do not know the world in which they live...This I believe to be the privilege and the burden of all of us who deem ourselves bound by allegiances and loyalties which are broader and deeper than nationalism and which go beyond our nation's self-defined goals and positions. We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy, for no document from human hands can make these humans any less our brothers...Surely we must understand their feelings even if we do not condone their actions. Surely we must see that the men we supported pressed them to their violence. Surely we must see that our own computerized plans of destruction simply dwarf their greatest acts...When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered... in the final analysis our loyalties must become ecumenical rather than sectional. Every nation must now develop an overriding loyalty to mankind as a whole in order to preserve the best in their individual societies...This call for a world-wide fellowship that lifts neighborly concern beyond one's tribe, race, class and nation is in reality a call for an all-embracing and unconditional love for all men.

-Martin Luther King, Jr.

The same is true today. Every selfish vote for Obama by homosexuals or women is a slap in the face to all those oppressed the world over, and in the end those that vote for a Republican or Democrat deserve neither rights nor liberty as they have become willing tools of oppression damned by their own blindness and self interest.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 3:03 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Someone who doesn't acknowledge the reality of the lesser of evils in politics is someone privileged enough to be blind to anything other than their own purity. I learned at a young age that, when voting, preferable is infinitely more likely than perfect, and that no-one cares about the votes not cast.
posted by gadge emeritus at 3:18 AM on October 24, 2012 [38 favorites]


Vote Jill Stein. This isn't about purity it's about rejecting the fallacy that we have no other choice but to chose evil. Also who is Obama less evil for? Surely not for the poor communities he's terrorizing in the Horn of Africa and Southwest/Central Asia? I refuse to vote for a murderer.

Plan for hunting terrorists signals U.S. intends to keep adding names to kill lists

US Troops Killed Four Afghan Children Who Were Tending Livestock

Obama and Romney: War Is Peace
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 3:25 AM on October 24, 2012


Vote Jill Stein if you really want to send a warm, sloppy fuck-you to poor women who don't have the luxury of having access to quality health-care in America.

As pointed out, only a genuinely privileged person could think they're changing the world by throwing away their vote and helping out Romney.

Sorry, but adults realize they don't get everything they want in a candidate. Hell, they might get very little of what they want. But the two-party system is here to stay and if Romney wins in two weeks I'll will happily tell Jill Stein supporters to go jump off a cliff.

Vote for the Libertarian guy all you want because you're already a Republican but just ashamed to admit it.
posted by bardic at 3:38 AM on October 24, 2012 [48 favorites]


Do adults know what murder is? Or is that too childish for your tastes? Rule of Law? No? Still too childish? I'll happily tell anyone voting for a republican or democrat to go jump off a cliff right now. Maybe then Stein would have a chance if there weren't so many "adults" around. Libertarian? You don't even know who Jill Stein is do you?
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 3:45 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


> You sell the devil you know a bit cheap.

fleacircus, I don't think so. Australia has long thought out and popular policies (on the political left) about its place in the world that do not hinge on dominating, or being dominated, and those policies are maturing at their most rapid, right now - 2012.

We've been heading here since PM Whitlam (1972).

Unlike AElfwine Evenstar, I don't believe the US can turn on a dime and go all peaceful Green -- the US is nowhere near prepared for that monumental change. The US is too scared to "put the gun down". Every little thing can be interpreted as some sort of constitutional rights abuse, or weakness. Another term with Obama would be four more years in the right direction.

Australia is more ready to go it alone, (we don't share your constitutional rights) and deals are being struck with our East Asian and Pacific neighbours, and I'm not alone in finding that refreshing and exciting. We're not there yet, either. The complication we have, that you don't have, is dependence on America for security. What security?

We need to close down that era.
It's not you, it's us. We're not happy.

PS: We're courting Latin America, too.
Sorry about that!
posted by de at 3:50 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Jill Stein is the Green Party candidate who has delusions of grandeur and thrives off of the false revolutionary zeal of so-called liberals who have convinced themselves that if Romney repeals Obamacare, 30 million real, living people won't lose their health-care. And somehow this leads to the glorious third-party revolution that in fact makes life incredibly shitty for millions of real, living people who are predominantly female and poor and non-white.

The Libertarian guy's name escapes me right now but I'm glad he's running because four times out of five he's going to soak up votes that would otherwise go Romney (like I said, former Republicans who are and should be ashamed of themselves).

But please, continue to try and convince yourself that a Romney win would be better than an Obama win. I suggest you begin by asking a young woman who has been impregnated through rape what she thinks of a glorious, thirteen-dimensional chess victory that puts Romney and Paul fucking Ryan into office.
posted by bardic at 3:51 AM on October 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


Vote Jill Stein if you really want to send a warm, sloppy fuck-you to poor women who don't have the luxury of having access to quality health-care in America.

Since Jill Stein is not going to win and no one is going to care, you can actually save lives by voting for the candidate that will not take away Planned Parenthood and effective low-income health insurance! Think of the cancer that will be treated early, the people who won't end up in the ER because a tooth infection reached their heart. Some of us will not die, it'll be great. Just vote Obama.
posted by stoneandstar at 3:52 AM on October 24, 2012 [17 favorites]


*30 million real, living people *won't* lost health-care*, excuse me
posted by bardic at 3:53 AM on October 24, 2012


(Quoted for agreement, bardic.)
posted by stoneandstar at 3:53 AM on October 24, 2012


The reality of the US is that either the Democrat or the Republican candidate will win the presidency. The work to either get a more leftist Democratic candidate, OR to fundamentally change the nature of the American electoral process can't be done in the course of an election campaign. Certainly not in the last three weeks before the election.

The drone program is unconscionable. But news flash: American presidents have been ordering unconscionable actions since the country was founded. People of conscience work to change THAT. You work on demanding accountability in process. You work on developing the systems that work better than what currently exists. But at the same time, you do what you can to keep things from getting worse.

To my mind, one of the electable candidates in this election is clearly going to make things much worse than the other electable candidate. Ignoring that, and opting out of the election, or casting a vote for a manifestly unelectable candidate, means that you have it on your conscience when things get significantly worse. You don't get to say "Don't blame it on me, I voted for Stein," because you are not naive enough to think that Stein will become President, and voting for her HAS an impact on the election result. So there is no clean conscience in democracy. Don't fool yourself that there is. There is only the best of the available choices. So you can vote for Johnson, Obama, Romney, or Stein (in alphabetical order). But work out what the practical consequences of each of those votes is, and the moral weight of those consequences, before you make your final decision. And please do other posters the courtesy of assuming that they will do the same.
posted by bardophile at 4:00 AM on October 24, 2012 [15 favorites]


You're presenting a false dichotomy. It's not clear that Romney will have the votes needed to repeal the healthcare bill.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 4:03 AM on October 24, 2012


Unless of course you are assuming that the Democrats would just roll over and not attempt a filibuster.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 4:05 AM on October 24, 2012


I'd rather have Obamacare preserved by a veto than by a filibuster. The former is a lot safer.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 4:07 AM on October 24, 2012 [10 favorites]


It looks like Romney had a reason for not bringing up Benghazi during the last debate--Someone must have given him a heads up.

Emails detail unfolding Benghazi attack on Sept. 11
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 4:14 AM on October 24, 2012


AElfwine Evenstar: "You're presenting a false dichotomy. It's not clear that Romney will have the votes needed to repeal the healthcare bill."

That's your plan? Vote for Stein and then hope that Romney can't get any bills through the senate? Brilliant.
posted by octothorpe at 4:44 AM on October 24, 2012 [23 favorites]


If there was some partial defection to Jill Stein by the left, it would not be large enough to win her the White House, and would merely contribute to a Romney victory.

Currently, the Supreme Court consists of four liberal justices, four conservatives, and an unreliable tiebreaker vote. It is extremely likely that at least one of the liberal justices (who happens to be a feminist hero) will have to resign within the next President's term. The Court has been holding on to Roe v. Wade by one liberal vote for the last decade. Women's rights and women's bodies may not be a concern for you, but as a woman, there is no fucking way I am putting Romney in a position to nominate a justice who will overturn Roe v. Wade. It is absolute madness to suggest that I am complicit in murder for wanting to preserve my right to control my own body and my own medical choices.

(This does not even include the defunding of Planned Parenthood and shut down of Obamacare, which would leave millions of women without access to lifesaving medical screening and treatment.)
posted by sallybrown at 4:49 AM on October 24, 2012 [23 favorites]


After weighing the moral calculus, I've come to the conclusion--and while others may disagree, we are all entitled to our opinions--that the damage that would be done to America and her citizens by a Romney/Ryan administration is worse than murder. There, I said it. Protection of equal rights for millions is worth a few thousand lives, and yes, I would lay down my own life and those of my loved ones if it came to that. That's how much I love this country: I would vote for Ed Gein if his domestic platform were as good as Obama's.
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:56 AM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


Jill Stein might as well be on Karl Rove's payroll.
posted by spitbull at 5:02 AM on October 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Re the trump thing, any couple that's been together for decades and has never questioned whether to stay together is going to be the exception.
posted by emjaybee at 5:09 AM on October 24, 2012


The only thing that interests me about the Allred thing is the gag order. I don't think that's normal in divorce proceedings, is it?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:14 AM on October 24, 2012


Obama is an evil man and anyone who votes for him is complicit. Period.

That doesn't even begin to account for the various ways I'm complicit in all sorts of nastiness by virtue of existing in social structures that are systemically unjust. Forget voting for a moment. I eat and clothe myself with the exploited labor of my fellow human beings. I'm not content with that situation, but I can only do so much to resist and change the situation as an individual.

Every nation must now develop an overriding loyalty to mankind as a whole in order to preserve the best in their individual societies...This call for a world-wide fellowship that lifts neighborly concern beyond one's tribe, race, class and nation is in reality a call for an all-embracing and unconditional love for all men.

-Martin Luther King, Jr.

The same is true today.


King says "develop an overriding loyalty." He speaks of a process, and he knew the hard, painstakingly slow work of justice. Because we cannot enact justice everywhere does not invalidate various local efforts to work for justice, to do the work of reform. And that reform is impelled by the much-needed voices of those who do remind us of how terrible our situation is and how much better it could be.

Every selfish vote for Obama by homosexuals or women is a slap in the face to all those oppressed the world over.

Working to redress the rights violations that most immediately affect you and yours is not selfishness. The powerful have done their best to shatter solidarity wherever they find it, breaking it like skulls smashed with truncheons. Pitting different groups against each other as they all bear up under the awful burden of injustice helps no one.
posted by audi alteram partem at 5:21 AM on October 24, 2012 [29 favorites]


I don't believe Romney is anywhere as near as radical as people here are painting him. He's a centrist, always has been. Just because people believe all the crazy shit he is saying to get elected speaks more gullibility than any reality; imagined or otherwise. Just because he had to swing right to get the nomination doesn't mean he won't swing just as far back to the center once he is in the White House. It's interesting that the most impassioned arguments for voting for Obama re based on fear. I suggest self evaluation and mediation before you pull the lever for a man who has killed minors.

I suggest reading this paper which expresses similar sentiments to Wolin's that I linked to above. It's very relevant to our current situation. Since I doubt most will actually read it here's a free preview:

In the absence of a substantive left vision, an absence that inevitably breeds a politics of reaction, the neoconservative moral agenda and contempt for civil rights would seem to push many liberals and leftists either into a competing moralism or into repulsing all moral claims in the public and the social with civil libertarianism and a hollow secularism. Similarly, the neoliberal dismantling of public provisions and services often pushes liberals and leftists into an anachronistic welfare statism. However understandable, these responses take inadequate measure of contemporary configurations of power and sidestep what may be the most critical question for radical democrats and social egalitarians today, which is not the question of how best to defend civil liberties, secularism, or welfare statism, but whether the democratic dream—the rule of the demos for the demos—is finished. How might the extraordinary powers that construct and organize collective life today be democratized? Are we really democrats—do we believe in or want popular power anymore? Do we believe the demos can or should govern itself, sharing, as much as possible, the various (political, social, and economic) powers that currently govern it? If not, what is the significance of this faltering belief for a left project? And, if we do still believe, how would renewed efforts to democratize power contest the forces and rival the lures of contemporary anti-democracy?

on preview: the suggestion that I am capable of "pitting" anyone against anyone else is laughable. You have demonstrated your lack of intellectual rigor so you'll have to excuse me for not taking your seriously. It is specicially the two party system that "pits" people against each other. It makes externalizing the "nastiness" you referenced a lot easier as we have witnessed over the last 12 years.

Just to be clear I am just as on the hook as anyone else for the atrocities being committed. Unlike most here, though, I have decided that I can't be part of the problem anymore. If anyone thinks Obama, signer of the NDAA and executioner with out trial or due process, is a solution to any problem than you are an enemy of democracy...insofar as our democracy still exists. Democracy and absolute power are not compatible and at this point in our nations history the executive branch is now a power unto itself with little to no checks or balances when it comes to matters of war and due process.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 5:37 AM on October 24, 2012


He speaks of a process

I would assume the process Dr. King would have imagined would have more to do with peaceful civil disobedience than voting for a know war criminal. If you were even remotely acquainted with his philosophy you would know that.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 5:41 AM on October 24, 2012


Mod note: AElfwine Evenstar, this thread is not your personal soapbox; you need to back off trying to dominate the conversation.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:45 AM on October 24, 2012 [8 favorites]


Unlike most here, though, I have decided that I can't be part of the problem anymore.

I guess I'm just not clear on how voting for someone other than one of the two candidates who are going to win makes anyone 'not part of the problem.' I understand the disillusionment with the system, and I understand that the two parties feed off of each other. My question is, how does opting out of the electoral system do anything to fix that problem?
posted by bardophile at 5:46 AM on October 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


The Towering Legacy Of George W. Bush
Four years out of office, W. still can’t get anyone to notice. Electing Barack Obama was supposed to be a repudiation of his predecessor’s policies, and in many ways I wish it had been, but the truth is that it’s been nothing of the sort. W’s policy innovations have been so popular among the governing class that there have been few serious challenges to them from any corner at all. When these policies, all of them less than twelve years old, are challenged,the challenger is typically presumed to be a crank.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:55 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Sorry taz I'll answer bardophile's question and then I'll bow out for a while.

It's more than disillusionment. We are at the point where our democracy exists in form only. There is no actual democracy taking place. Read Wolin, read the paper I linked by Brown. It's not like these are new ideas either, folks have been warning us about this since at least the late seventies. What do we do? Take a page from the civil rights movement and Dr. King, i.e. shut this mother fucking country down until the ruling class either give us a new New Deal or their heads on pikes. A creeping authoritarianism is the other option.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 5:59 AM on October 24, 2012


of course the heads on pikes part wouldn't be very MLK now would it. Regardless of my temper peaceful non violence is the only way forward that I can see...voting for democrats or republicans not so much.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 6:06 AM on October 24, 2012


Unlike most here, though, I have decided that I can't be part of the problem anymore.

You're not deciding to be part of any solution, so the distinction is minimal.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:07 AM on October 24, 2012 [23 favorites]


Ruth Bader Ginsburg will almost certainly retire during the next presidential term regardless of who wins. Breyer isn't completely out of the question. Furthermore I think Kennedy and Scalia might choose to leave if Romney is elected.

If Romney gets to replace Ginsburg and Breyer with Scalia clones I think we are effectively screwed in the Supreme Court for the next 20 years. Hell even replacing Kennedy with a more reliable conservative vote could cause some significant damage in a huge number of areas.

Make no mistake, the conservatives on the court aren't above involving themselves in a whole host of issues. Roe V Wade is certainly in question, Obamacare would almost certainly be revisited. Hell if conservatives have 7 justices a whole host of issues that were previously considered decided might come up again.

This is simply not acceptable to me. Furthermore the idea that by losing the general election Democrats are going to suddenly swerve to the left ignores basically the last 40+ years of political history in this country.

You want change in the Democratic party? Do it in the primaries and at the local level where you can shape future leaders. At the general election in a first past the post system? It's completely pointless and frequently counterproductive.
posted by vuron at 6:07 AM on October 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


I read that Mourdock thing right before I went to bed and I was trying to parse it out before falling asleep.
“Are you trying to suggest that somehow I think God ordained or pre-ordained rape? No, I don’t think that anyone could suggest that. That’s a sick, twisted - no, that’s not even close to what I said,” he told reporters, according to the Evansville Courier & Press.

But he reaffirmed his view that conception is determined by a higher power.

“It is a fundamental part of my faith that God gives us life. God determines when life begins,” Mourdock said. “I believe in an almighty God who makes those calls. … There are some things in life that are above my pay grade.”
God determines when life begins. Which means that sometimes after two married people, fervently hoping for a baby, make love, God says, "Nope. No baby for you." Then he sees a 15 year old who has been raped and God says, "You. You are going to have a baby," even though the baby will be a constant reminder of her rape, even though her family might be ashamed and she might have to be killed for carrying an out-of-wedlock child.

It's always interesting to me to read about how individuals delineate the responsibilities and character traits of their god. Since firsthand knowledge about god (or gods) is impossible, one must rely on others-- either written or oral testimonies-- to help shape one's personal god and then one is left to fill in the blanks. The popular version of the Christian God that is currently undergoing a revival among American fundamentalists is such a misanthrope that it speaks volumes about the state of mind of a certain segment of Americans.

I know this is a derail but I have not spent enough time studying World Religions so I have to ask, what does it mean when the popular vision of a nation's god morphs into a demon?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:22 AM on October 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


I don't believe Romney is anywhere as near as radical as people here are painting him. He's a centrist, always has been.

I don't believe he believes in anything, and if he wins I don't believe he has the backbone to stand up to the radicals. He couldn't even stand up to the "sharp-tongued ladies" on The View.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:24 AM on October 24, 2012 [17 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy, I think that particular flavor of deity is predicated on the refusal to believe that truly awful things ever actually happen. Nothing to see here, move along, etc., etc.
posted by Andrhia at 6:26 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


People like Mourdock are just confirming that the war on science has extended into the higher echelons of the Republican party. It's no longer about ruthless businesscentric plutocrats harnessing the power of the Conservative Christian vote to achieve electoral success but then ignoring that portion of the party because their wants and desires are not practical. There is a new breed of Republican legislator that used to generally be limited to state legislative bodies that is now making it in to the House and even the Senate that deeply believes some of the anti-science, anti-democratic rhetoric used by the party elites to rile up the base.
posted by vuron at 6:28 AM on October 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Take a page from the civil rights movement and Dr. King, i.e. shut this mother fucking country down until the ruling class either give us a new New Deal or their heads on pikes. A creeping authoritarianism is the other option.

I'm sympathetic to the argument that mass nonviolent action is the answer to solving systemic problems, but I don't entirely agree. I'm more on the side of pragmatic, incremental reform (which, as I said above, requires, among other things, active radical voices to keep it from creeping into authoritarianism). We disagree because we differ on some fundamental assumptions, and I hear that you think that makes me more guilty than those who choose not to vote for the US President. But I'm going to side with working to elect a president who will appoint Supreme Court justices that will more likely protect the (diminished and diminishing) rights of women, GLBT Americans and others.

I would assume the process Dr. King would have imagined would have more to do with peaceful civil disobedience than voting for a know war criminal. If you were even remotely acquainted with his philosophy you would know that.

Nonviolent action can occur at the same time as voting to lessen the harms wrought by the executive office. I'm not only acquainted with the writings and actions of MLK, I'm also versed in other work demonstrating the power of nonviolent direct action, which is widely unknown or misrepresented in US political discourse. For example, anyone discussing foreign policy should be able to argue why the nonviolent direct action advocated by Gene Sharp isn't pursued in our policies.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:32 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Every selfish vote for Obama by homosexuals or women is a slap in the face to all those oppressed the world over, and in the end those that vote for a Republican or Democrat deserve neither rights nor liberty as they have become willing tools of oppression damned by their own blindness and self interest.

By that logic I could just as easily say that every selfish vote for Jill Stein by lofty ideologues is a slap in the face to homosexuals, women and poor people throughout the U.S., and in the end those that vote for Jill Stein or other third party candidates deserve neither rights or liberty as they have become willing tools of oppression damned by their own blind commitment to intellectual purity. Everyone should vote their conscience, but don't pretend that every choice you make isn't a slap in the face to somebody.
posted by Go Banana at 6:33 AM on October 24, 2012 [31 favorites]


The same is true today. Every selfish vote for Obama by homosexuals or women is a slap in the face to all those oppressed the world over, and in the end those that vote for a Republican or Democrat deserve neither rights nor liberty as they have become willing tools of oppression damned by their own blindness and self interest.

I'm not sure how alienating over half the population will earn the support of people for your position. Asking other people to make sacrifices is easy. If you think that people don't deserve human rights according to their voting preferences, I don't know what to say.
posted by ersatz at 6:40 AM on October 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


This way is madness. Obama is an evil man and anyone who votes for him is complicit. Period. Same goes for Romney. Vote Jill Stein.

Hi there. It would be great if you could knock off the black and white morality, name calling and insentience that you alone have the correct answer.

The word evil is particularly loaded and comes with a lot of connotations. Serial murderers are called evil. Dictators who order mass killings are called evil. People commit child abuse are called evil. For you to label the Obama, Romney and anyone who votes for them in the same class as the above smacks of narrow minded zealotry and degrades the discussion to simplistic levels of rhetoric.

Please be more thoughtful in your criticisms of the President and voters.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:44 AM on October 24, 2012 [35 favorites]


I think I am going to need a peer reviewed cite actually saying Obama is evil with statistics and such like.
posted by edgeways at 6:51 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


And Mefites.
posted by msalt at 6:52 AM on October 24, 2012


edgeways:
I'm sure we could find some peers to review that article, but I don't know that I would trust their opinions.
posted by kaibutsu at 6:57 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm fairly certain that mlk did endorse Johnson, who is responsible for many times more deaths than Obama.
posted by empath at 7:02 AM on October 24, 2012 [7 favorites]


What do we do? Take a page from the civil rights movement and Dr. King,

And register people to vote? Organize rides to the polls? Sue county registrars when they're blatantly refusing to allow eligible voters to vote? Work in your local town/county to encourage people to run for office?
posted by rtha at 7:04 AM on October 24, 2012 [20 favorites]


(not asking Aelfwine Evenstar any further questions since they have bowed out of the thread)
posted by bardophile at 7:07 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


This way is madness. Obama is an evil man and anyone who votes for him is complicit. Period. Same goes for Romney. Vote Jill Stein.

Which is a protest vote that helps Romney in the clutch, therefore your advice fails in practice, and is virtually the same as choosing Romney because Stein votes only count as sentimental ones. Furthermore, Sunday School terminology doesn't help people deal with reality very well.
posted by Brian B. at 7:09 AM on October 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Every person I personally know who is voting third party or not voting at all is an employed white man with a comfortable life and nothing to lose.

I completely understand the disillusionment with our system but no one has explained to me how opting out of the system entirely helps us. It helps the person feel morally superior.
posted by girlmightlive at 7:13 AM on October 24, 2012 [13 favorites]


Looks like the Romney attorney has "no position" on unsealing the Staples documents.

Also, Donald Trump is claiming his release at noon is not about the Obamas' marriage.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:15 AM on October 24, 2012


Just to be clear I am just as on the hook as anyone else for the atrocities being committed.

I think that asserting your individual vote is a moral act conducted in a social vacuum (when voting is a moral act more in its *collective* exercise) is a wee bit "evil" too (how do you like that word back atcha? Because you just called Obama voters "evil," right?) especially when conjoined to the black and white claim that you alone know the truly moral perspective on this election, speak for all of us who also vote our consciences, and can assert with a straight face that we're being disingenous for having a different view of effective moral agency (mine involving not commiting political suicide in the name of abstract principle before the fight can even be engaged) than you. Bombastic bullshit, man. Even if Jill Stein were elected in a landslide of liberal progressive turnout, how likely do you think that is to end the militarized foreign policy of the United States of Capitalism?

And she only appeals in the abstract, for lack of detailed consideration of her limitations. As she is a human being and a politican, I'm going to guess a harder look would reveal she's not perfect, either.
posted by spitbull at 7:18 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Also, Donald Trump is claiming his release at noon is not about the Obamas' marriage.

The other guess I heard was that Obama supposedly sold cocaine during college.
posted by drezdn at 7:20 AM on October 24, 2012


The other guess I heard was that Obama supposedly sold cocaine during college.

Trump denied that yesterday.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:22 AM on October 24, 2012




Also, Donald Trump is claiming his release at noon is not about the Obamas' marriage.

Oooo it feels like Christmas! How exciting.
posted by Theta States at 7:31 AM on October 24, 2012


It would be pretty easy to move the Intrade market.

Absolutely. Outside the national presidential market, many of the smaller markets (like state-by-state electoral vote, or Senate races) have a daily volume of a couple of hundred dollars. Even non-rich people could cause huge fluctuations in those markets.
posted by miyabo at 7:50 AM on October 24, 2012


Obama vs. Romney III: “I got nuthin’,” but there’s a reason for that
Foreign policy was the subject of the third and final round of debates between the legacy party duopoly candidates, and if I’m asked to review a repeat performance with different players in 2016, I’ll go do something more easy and fun, like having my wisdom teeth removed.

To begin with, I find the foreign policy positions taken by the emergent parties far more congenial than of the legacy parties as expressed in this “debate.”
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:53 AM on October 24, 2012


Every person I personally know who is voting third party or not voting at all is an employed white man with a comfortable life and nothing to lose.

I know of at least once instance where this isn't the case - a friend who's voting for Jill Stein who's only sporadically employed (such is the nature of a creative field) and isn't all that comfortable. (Although, he is a white man.)

We've pretty much learned that it's best for our friendship that we not get into political discussions all too much, as he is definitely much more passionate about progressive politics than I; I respect that he is at least directiong his passion somewhere and not just sitting back like so many others do, and he appreciates that I don't fall back into the "oh all third-party candidates and voters spoil it for the real guys in the close elections" trap, and we leave it there.

But yeah, some people are voting for Jill Stein because they sincerely are supporters and are voting their conscience, and even in a close race I can't find fault with that, because the impact is not quite as close as you'd think, I've found.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:59 AM on October 24, 2012


This idea that both candidates are the same is an illusion created by the candidates themselves -- no more and no less.

This exchange from the last debate is a perfect example:
Obama: "It's time someone had the courage to stand up and say: I'm against those things that everybody hates."
Romney: "Now, I respect my opponent. I think he's a good man. But quite frankly, I agree with everything he just said."
Obama: "I say your three cent titanium tax goes too far."
Romney: "And I say your three cent titanium tax doesn't go too far enough."
Oops, that was Futurama. Close enough. The thing is, people watch this stuff and they believe it -- they believe that the candidates are two stuffed shirts who will do precisely the same things in office. They won't. Each of them is offering protective camouflage to avoid negative comparisons. If Obama has a plan for education, Romney loves education. If Romney will protect military bases, Obama will protect military bases. If Obama's going to protect seniors' healthcare, Romney's going to protect seniors' healthcare.

By dealing in generalities they can keep the race near 50%. It doesn't matter if, when you dig down to the specifics, one candidate's position is more attractive to voters, because few voters will ever dig down to the specifics. In the end, though, when you look back at history -- at foreign wars, at civil rights, at poverty rates, at deficits -- it becomes clear that the difference is life and death.

There are, of course, lots of issues where the candidates truly support the same thing and I wish a third voice was being heard. But the differences are as real as the similarities.
posted by jhc at 8:12 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


My brother just g-chatted me (sorry, I don't have a link yet) that the Allred thing is that Mitt testified under oath that Staples was worth "nothing" and the man's wife got a bad settlement. Weeks later they cashed out for big big money
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


roomthreeseventeen: "Also, Donald Trump is claiming his release at noon is not about the Obamas' marriage."

What's the over/under on this being an idiotic continuation of birther crackpottery? Is there an intrade for this?
posted by boo_radley at 8:24 AM on October 24, 2012




Really, perjury goes nowhere?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:27 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


I may have missed it in this long thread, but I searched and did not find it. The Obama campaign has just released the transcript of a pretty long and candid interview with the Des Moines Register that was originally supposed to be off the record.

The campaign decided to release the interview after the Des Moines Register printed an editorial 'complaining' about the interview being off the record.

Excellent stuff, I think. You should definitely read it, if you haven't already. This is the man I want to have as my president for the next 4 years. No doubt about it.
posted by syzygy at 8:28 AM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Really, perjury goes nowhere?

"Robert Jones, an attorney at the Boston law firm of Ropes & Gray, who is representing Romney in this matter told TIME in a statement, “This is a decades-old divorce case in which Mitt Romney provided testimony as to the value of a company. He has no objection to letting the public see that testimony.”"
posted by cashman at 8:29 AM on October 24, 2012


I don't think the perjury claims have a significant likelihood of impacting the race at this point same with whatever birther claim Trump will try to sell as he struggles to retain some sort of relevancy.
posted by vuron at 8:30 AM on October 24, 2012


Here's the thing: we liberals love to believe otherwise, but I personally have very little doubt that Romney is generally a stand-up guy in his personal life. His lapses are not lapses of personal judgment. He wouldn't lie under oath to help a friend; not only is there far too much at risk, but he's too principled to do something like that. And frankly I really doubt he'd perjure himself. That's just what type of man Romney is.

His lapses are lapses of knowledge, blind spots where he has no understanding, and a willingness to trust people (mostly his advisers at this point) too far. And also he generally isn't a very good manager of people.

And, again, I sincerely doubt that he perjured himself.
posted by koeselitz at 8:31 AM on October 24, 2012


A tangent I found somewhat amusing - a pet store in my neighborhood is selling dog poop bags decorated with your choice of either Obama or Romney portraits. They are tracking which one sells more and calling the resulting data-collection "a smear campaign." So far (as of October 16, anyway) they have been selling far more Romney poop bags than Obama ones.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:38 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


I don't believe Romney is anywhere as near as radical as people here are painting him. He's a centrist, always has been.

Romney has never been a centrist. His "support" for gay marriage in Massachusetts? Protested loudly every step of the way, pressured judges to overturn the law, and then tried to block it using Jim Crow-era miscegenation laws. And on abortion, he never really did anything to encourage legal use, has said several times he regrets prior decisions, and has hired one of the most anti-choice legislators in the US to be his running mate. Romneycare got his support because he knew that being seen as an ally of Teddy would burnish his bipartisan credentials.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:39 AM on October 24, 2012 [13 favorites]


He wouldn't lie under oath to help a friend; not only is there far too much at risk, but he's too principled to do something like that.

I don't think this Allred thing has legs, but this is a man who will lie and lie blatantly in front of an entire nation, so it's fair to doubt his principles when it comes to lying.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:42 AM on October 24, 2012 [10 favorites]


The Obama campaign has just released the transcript of a pretty long and candid interview with the Des Moines Register that was originally supposed to be off the record.

This is a pretty darn strong closing statement. I don't understand why he would have made it off the record in the first place.
Q: [...] Why should the Des Moines Register offer its endorsement to you, sir?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, you guys have seen me up close. I wouldn’t be on the national stage had it not been for the people of Iowa. And if you look at what I said to you this time four years ago, and the commitments I’ve made, I have kept and met those commitments, or I have worked really hard to keep them and meet them.

I said that I’d cut taxes for middle-class families -- I did. I said that we would make sure to make college more affordable -- we have. I said I would clean up the financial system and pass the toughest Wall Street reforms since the 1930s, and we have. I said that I would make sure that people don’t go broke in this country because they get sick -- we did that. I said I’d end the war in Iraq -- I have. I said we’d got after al Qaeda and bin Laden -- we have. I said we’d begin a process where we could initially blunt the momentum of the Taliban and then a process in which we’d begin transitioning out -- we’re in the process of doing that. [...]

So across the board, I’ve done what I said. And this is in the midst of I think what everybody would agree were some pretty historic circumstances. And the criteria by which I’ve made these decisions has always been what’s good for America’s families, how do we build our middle class, how do we grow the economy in a way that broad-based and sustainable.

I got to tell you, I feel very strongly that I have a record that justifies a second term. But I guess, more importantly, what you also know is that I’m somebody who keeps my word, that I don’t read the polls, that I do what I think is right for the American people, even when it is profoundly unpopular politically. And I think that’s worth something. I think that’s the kind of leadership the people of Iowa want.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:43 AM on October 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


Every person I personally know who is voting third party or not voting at all is an employed white man with a comfortable life and nothing to lose.

US non-voters have essentially the same female/male distribution as voters. They are significantly less white than voters (55% vs 77%). They are significantly more likely to have been unemployed in the last year (51% vs 36%). They are generally poorer (43% of non-voters have family incomes under $30K vs 19% of voters; only 13% have family incomes over $75K vs 32% of voters). Cite. Your personal impressions are not representative of anything other than your own social circles.
posted by enn at 8:43 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


More on why Romney's "centrist" past is one of his bigger and apparently successful lies:

Remembering Romney's 'relative disinterest in bipartisan collaboration'
posted by zombieflanders at 8:46 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Non-voters aren't going to be representative of people not voting by choice, though, which is I think who the 'mostly employed white men' non-voters were meant to be.
posted by hoyland at 8:47 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I used to think Romney was a centrist, but he's surrounded his campaign with the usual suspects from the Bush administration.

Do you really think he would veto more right wing laws proposed by the house? Or appoint centrist Supreme Court justices?
posted by drezdn at 8:49 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Hoyland, are you talking about voter suppression? The data in question come from a pool of likely non-voters selected based on "several variables including self-reported frequency of past voting, likelihood of voting in the coming election, whether voted in previous presidential election, amount of thought given to the election and attention to election news and politics in general." I think most people who will try to vote and be turned down because of voter suppression are going to be considered likely voters, not non-voters, by this methodology.

If you're not talking about voter suppression, I'm confused.
posted by enn at 8:50 AM on October 24, 2012


The only positive thing about the TMZ allegations is that there are at least some "news" consumers that are much more likely to see and read these sort of allegations from a source like TMZ than might be reading the regular news sites.

So from a low-information voter perspective implying that Romney lied under oath can be bad even if it's unlikely to be strictly true from a perjury perspective.

Romney and surrogates have floated all sorts of spurious allegations over the last 4 years maybe it's apropos for Romney to be on the receiving end.
posted by vuron at 8:51 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I don't understand why he would have made it off the record in the first place.

Fox's takeaway: "STOP THE PRESSES: Obama 'On the Record' After insisting that call to Des Moines Register seeking endorsement stay off the record, White House reverses"

OOOH A FLIP-FLOP!
posted by Theta States at 8:52 AM on October 24, 2012


Silly rabbit, perjury only counts when it's about BJs, not when it's about business!
posted by emjaybee at 8:55 AM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


And frankly I really doubt he'd perjure himself. That's just what type of man Romney is.

I laughed.

He has overtly lied, at least once under oath (representing himself as a Mass resident so he could run for governor when he was not) and possibly twice (on federal financial disclosure forms where he represented his relationship to Bain after "retiring") that we know of, who lies on the stump and in debates on a regular and provable basis, and whose entire candidacy is built on a Big Lie that Obama is to blame for the recession caused by Bush's policies.

That's the kind of man he is. A liar.
posted by spitbull at 8:56 AM on October 24, 2012 [28 favorites]


enn -- I think in context "[people who are] voting third party or not voting at all" refers to people who actively follow national politics and view not voting at all as the best ethical choice among the available options.
posted by jhc at 8:58 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Someone pointed out when the 47% video broke that the most devastating "gaffes" are those that confirm already-held negative perceptions about the candidate...the perjury thing may not be a blockbuster, but it reinforces the message that Romney frequently and easily lies.
posted by sallybrown at 8:58 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Fox's takeaway: "STOP THE PRESSES: Obama 'On the Record' After insisting that call to Des Moines Register seeking endorsement stay off the record, White House reverses"

Well, I'm all for Fox covering the story. If their readers want to see what's so seekrit and scandalous about the interview, maybe they'll actually read it.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:59 AM on October 24, 2012




Wouldn't a past chance of divorce humanize Obama further? To low-information voters, especially.
Many people have had marital problems, and if they patched it up, then eventually got to the White House, that's pretty compelling.
I'm sure though the drudgers will focus on some minutae details, as divorce is often messy, but hopefully the broader picture will be the overall focus.
posted by Theta States at 9:02 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I thought that Fox takeaway thing was a joke. No, that's the actual headline. I just looked at my screen deadpan like "I don't know what I expected".
posted by cashman at 9:02 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Here is the Trump announcement.

Trump wants his college records and passport application released in exchange for a $5m donation to Obama's charity of choice.

How ridiculous.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 9:03 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Birther and College-Truther nonsense. If Obama releases his passport applications and college application/records then Trump will donate $5 million to a charity of Obama's choice.
posted by knapah at 9:04 AM on October 24, 2012


Shoot, I have no speakers to watch that YT.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:04 AM on October 24, 2012


Trump's thing is a rickroll basically. Trump has nothing.
posted by cashman at 9:04 AM on October 24, 2012


So Trump has nothing other than posturing.

Rock on with the Birther nonsense.
posted by vuron at 9:05 AM on October 24, 2012


From the Desk of Donald Trump: Major Announcement

As predicted, a total non-event. Just Donald attention-whoring yet again.
posted by Defying Gravity at 9:05 AM on October 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Wait do birthers think Obama didn't go to college now? Or will his applications contain some proof he's not really a citizen? I can't keep up with their crazy...
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:05 AM on October 24, 2012


Trump - "when he does that to my satisfaction...."

Bitch please.
posted by cashman at 9:05 AM on October 24, 2012 [7 favorites]


The thing I take away from this: Trump has $5m he is prepared to give to charity but only if it serves his purpose.

Trump is the King High Lord of all Douchebaggia.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 9:06 AM on October 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


I guess Trump can say if he's not afraid of anything why doesn't he just claim the 5 million dollars?

I wonder if someone will do the same for Romney's tax records?
posted by vuron at 9:06 AM on October 24, 2012


TRUMP NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP,
TRUMP NEVER GONNA LET YOU DOWN
TRUMP NEVER GONNA RUN AROUND AND DESERT YOU
TRUMP NEVER GONNA MAKE YOU CRY,
TRUMP NEVER GONNA SAY GOODBYE
TRUMP NEVER GONNA TELL A LIE AND HURT YOU

WHAT WHAT
posted by Theta States at 9:06 AM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


It turns out Obama designed whatever it is that's covering Trump's bald spot.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:06 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obligatory Onion. Man I like how speedy they are with this stuff.
posted by jessamyn at 9:07 AM on October 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


Your personal impressions are not representative of anything other than your own social circles.

That's why I specifically said "people I personally know," obviously.
posted by girlmightlive at 9:07 AM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Wait do birthers think Obama didn't go to college now? Or will his applications contain some proof he's not really a citizen? I can't keep up with their crazy...

They believe that Obama applied to college as an Indonesian citizen or a foreign student, possibly to maximize his financial aid grants.
posted by KathrynT at 9:08 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


enn -- I think in context "[people who are] voting third party or not voting at all" refers to people who actively follow national politics and view not voting at all as the best ethical choice among the available options.

I understand the implication, I just disagree with it. I think it's extraordinarily condescending to imagine that the poorer, less-educated, more-unemployed non-voters are somehow not making that choice not to vote (it just happens to them, like an act of god?), or don't vote by default rather than because they view it as the "best ethical choice among the available options," and that they are in this way unlike more-educated, wealther, whiter non-voters. Especially in the absence of any data whatsoever to support this view.

It's no-true-Scotsman nonsense—the claim is that anyone who doesn't vote is probably white, male, and privileged, and if they're not, their non-voting somehow doesn't count, or is not a considered act. Come on.
posted by enn at 9:08 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


jessamyn: "Obligatory Onion. Man I like how speedy they are with this stuff."

Jeez, those are some grim chuckles.
posted by boo_radley at 9:09 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


If Obama releases his passport applications and college application/records


Does anyone actually keep records of their applications, seriously?

What a jerk move. "I am swimming in this pool of gold, but only if your leader dances for me will I help salve the suffering of the nation! Clearly he is lying if he doesn't accede to my irrelevant and demeaning demands!"
posted by jetlagaddict at 9:10 AM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]




Donald Trump Stares Forlornly At Tiny, Aged Penis In Mirror

For a second there, I was worried that first photo would extend past the waist.
posted by Defying Gravity at 9:13 AM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


So I was thinking about making a post about Intrade itself, and this odd buying up of Romney stock that doesn't match the other betting markets. Discovered this previously happened last election.
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:18 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Big reveal Mitt Romney uses spray tan in a can
posted by humanfont at 9:19 AM on October 24, 2012


Obligatory Onion. Man I like how speedy they are with this stuff.

They probably wrote it months ago and had it on file for situations like this.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:20 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Trump has $5m he is prepared to give to charity but only if it serves his purpose.

RELEASE THE GIFT CERTIFICATE
posted by saturday_morning at 9:24 AM on October 24, 2012 [17 favorites]


humanfont: "Big reveal Mitt Romney uses spray tan in a can"

An amusing gawker comment: "If Mitt Romney releases a tissue sample of his skin, it will appease many Americans who have questions, serious questions. If Mitt Romney does this, I will donate $5 million dollars to the cosmetics company or hedge fund of his choice."
posted by boo_radley at 9:24 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wait do birthers think Obama didn't go to college now? Or will his applications contain some proof he's not really a citizen? I can't keep up with their crazy...

Transcripterism(?) is both an extension of birtherism as well as an excuse for people who are too cowardly to admit they're full-on racist to embrace birtherism but believe that OBAMA DID THE WHITE HOUSE BECAUSE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION THAT'S WHY is perfectly acceptable, seeing as how white men are the least privileged and most prejudiced-against members of American society.

And, yes, potential MR or AA complainers, it's racist when you call for records for a black guy and yet refuse to do it for his white competitors (one of whom even attended the same school) in either 2008 or this year.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:26 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Obama should offer a matching donation to a charity of Donald's choice if Mitt releases his taxes.
posted by spitbull at 9:28 AM on October 24, 2012 [10 favorites]


It should be noted that for most past presidents the transcripts were leaked by third parties. The fact that that hasn't happened with Obama tells me that he really did get good grades.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:29 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


What a gift that keeps giving that Donald Trump is. Thanks Donald!
posted by spitbull at 9:33 AM on October 24, 2012


Noam Chomsky on How Progressives Should Approach Election 2012
Chomsky stated “I think they should spend five or ten minutes on it. Seeing if there’s a point in taking part in the carefully orchestrated electoral extravaganza. And my own judgment, for what it’s worth, is, yes, there’s a point to taking a part.”

Professor Chomsky said he will probably vote for Jill Stein for president in effort to push a genuine electoral alternative, but that if he lived in a swing state he would vote “against Romney-Ryan, which means voting for Obama.”
posted by homunculus at 9:33 AM on October 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


lying about Staples

The other thing is, Staples is the ONLY example Romney has actually offered of his work at Bain helping anyone other than himself. It's his answer to charges of predatory financing. So Romney testifying under oath that the result was "worthless" is awkward at best.
posted by msalt at 9:38 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


"transparent like other presidents"

But not like other presidential candidates.
posted by howfar at 9:41 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Scandal at Staples: "Minutes into the meeting, the board was asked to leave by a confused store manager."

WTF Staples?
posted by homunculus at 9:46 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]




White House told of militant claim two hours after Libya attack: emails

There was a shitload of confusing news coming out, and at the time, the CIA reports certainly seemed to have more solid data than somebody a second-hand claim apparently based mostly on people reading Facebook and Twitter accounts of self-aggrandizing terrorist groups. FWIW, Susan Rice did mention that there were conflicting reports and there's a decent amount of evidence that the film was partly responsible, despite claims to the contrary.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:00 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Brandon Blatcher: "White House told of militant claim two hours after Libya attack: emails"

Man, you can bet there's going to be radio silence on Republicans clamoring for prosecutions over leaked intel.
posted by boo_radley at 10:02 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Terrorist groups who take credit for things absolutely do not represent a credible report that it was a militant action. I'm pretty sure there were terrorist groups taking credit five minutes after Trump's announcement that he wanted to see a picture of Barack Obama's high school letter jacket.
posted by koeselitz at 10:05 AM on October 24, 2012 [10 favorites]






The Trouble with Richard Mourdock Is Not His Alone

"Tell me again that I don't have to worry about Romney's having two or three Supreme Court appointments to make, or about a Senate full of Richard Mourdocks passing judgment on them."
posted by homunculus at 10:17 AM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Also, another reminder of why I love Joe and Dr Jill:
@markknoller: Latest "don't tell my wife." At country diner in Ohio, VP Biden had bacon and eggs. "Don't tell my wife I had the bacon," Biden said.

But when another woman at the diner told Biden he was "so slim," he asked her to "write a note to my wife and let her know."
posted by zombieflanders at 10:18 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


I've seen the 3rd debate now and Obama lost me at "America remains the one indispensable nation". Offensive. Enough said.
posted by de at 10:23 AM on October 24, 2012


Romney disagrees with Mourdock, but still supports him

I honestly don't know if I can stand 2 more weeks of this, let alone 4 years.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:23 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


And I grinned when Romney argued Latin America is as economically healthy as China.
posted by de at 10:27 AM on October 24, 2012


The Fox headline graphic has been devolving in to Drudge standards by the day.
CLINTON ON LIBYA EMAILS: SOCIAL MEDIA 'NOT EVIDENCE'
(but the State Dept. emails show YOU KNEW, right?)


So it's not even a QUESTION MARK? headline, it's a snarky ignorant question inserted via parentheses.
From a major mainstream news organization.
WHAT.

Someone grab a screen cap of that shit. Does anyone archive these headlines, say, automatically on an hourly basis?
What a flood of batshit panic. Is their news editor plucked ripe from a high school monthly newspaper?
posted by Theta States at 10:31 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


I've seen the 3rd debate now and Obama lost me at "America remains the one indispensable nation". Offensive. Enough said.

America is indispensable for me. It's where I keep all my stuff.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:41 AM on October 24, 2012 [18 favorites]


> America remains THE ONE indispensable nation

Many of us keep our stuff elsewhere. You a libertarian?
posted by de at 10:44 AM on October 24, 2012




I was being jocular, de. America is as important to me as my house is: not irreplaceable, but still bloody important because I live there.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:46 AM on October 24, 2012




So am I, Faint, being jocular. I know you're no libertarian. I really was mortified when I heard the words come from Obama's mouth. My heart sank.

He either believes that or is pandering, but he said it so naturally I believe the former.
posted by de at 10:50 AM on October 24, 2012


Regarding houses...
New-Home Sales Rising to Two-Year High Spur U.S. Growth: Economy.
posted by ericb at 10:51 AM on October 24, 2012


So am I, Faint. I know you're no libertarian.

Fair enough. Pax.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:52 AM on October 24, 2012


Theta States: What a flood of batshit panic. Is their news editor plucked ripe from a high school monthly newspaper?
No, they're just serving their customers what they pay for, i.e. the eyeballs of the kind of people who write with absolutely no trace of irony, Obama is a liar and an idiot who, as someone not born in this country, is not even eligible to be president. And if you look closely, he has a hidden pro Muslim, Marxist agenda that is destoying[sic] this country. (Actual quote from an actual person on Facebook.)

God Bless America.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:54 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Plan for hunting terrorists signals U.S. intends to keep adding names to kill lists

President Romney Can Thank Obama for His Permanent Robotic Death List
posted by homunculus at 10:56 AM on October 24, 2012


> America remains THE ONE indispensable nation

Oh, I thought he meant that the USA was like a bag of fritos, stuck forever turning on the end of one of those metal coils in a vending machine.
posted by goHermGO at 10:56 AM on October 24, 2012 [13 favorites]


Obama panders like crazy.
posted by empath at 10:58 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


RCP: Gallup 10/17 - 10/23 2700 LV 2.0 50 47 Romney +3

And there we go...Gallup is finally coming down in the LV lead for Romney and coming back to be closer in line with the other polls. I hope it keeps coming down.

I have this memory sense from 2008, that after the election it was actually the Gallup RV numbers that were more accurate. As to what is happening this time around is anyone's guess, so here's my take on it:

It's widely accepted that Rasmussen's "House Effect" as it's called, is slanted towards the GOP by anywhere from 3.8% +, per Nate Silver? My theory, this year though is that Gallup is trying to match their numbers a bit closer to Rasmussen to keep Rasmussen more in line and make them pay a price for their bias.

As Gallup comes down this week and I expect it's LV numbers are going to go back to being in Obama's favor by a couple of percentage points, Rasmussen is going to try and staunch that bleed off for Romney and for it's masters at Fox, but it'll be in a quandary if it stays too far out their as an outlier and doesn't reflect the election results somewhat realistically.

Four years ago, Rasmussen had to bleed off that approx. 4% points it always gives the GOP, in the final two weeks leading up to the election and by election day of the day before they finally got their numbers straight and in line with Gallup and with the actual results. This time around, they're not going to have it so easy.

Now, that sounds a bit nutty, I realize, but it's a bit of a thought experiment, and I welcome any one's opinion on if I may be overthinking this...
posted by Skygazer at 10:58 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


New-Home Sales Rising to Two-Year High Spur U.S. Growth: Economy.

That's just the markets pre-empting a glorious Romney presidency!
posted by Theta States at 10:58 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


That's how I'll think of it. It helps.
posted by de at 10:59 AM on October 24, 2012


So am I, Faint, being jocular. I know you're no libertarian. I really was mortified when I heard the words come from Obama's mouth. My heart sank.

He either believes that or is pandering, but he said it so naturally I believe the former.


Well, he's a politician, so it could go either way. And let's not forget that he's (half) black, with an African name and an upbringing that included Islamic teachings and and an agnostic parent. He kind of has to say it every chance he gets, because otherwise low-information voters start actually believing the crazies who say that he's a sekrit commie Mooslem Black Panther that hates God and wants to kill Whitey (see also: 2010 elections).

In other words, in all likelihood it's pandering, and it's something he has to do because of Stupid People.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2012 [11 favorites]


OK. Obama was pandering. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
posted by de at 11:04 AM on October 24, 2012


Donald Trump Mocked On Twitter.
posted by ericb at 11:07 AM on October 24, 2012


Does God Want You to Be Raped?
As Irin Carmon writes over at Salon today, “Dear everyone asking what it is about Republican candidates and their clumsy talk about rape: This is a feature, not a bug.” Really. Mourdock, Akin, Walsh, Angle—all of them are simply saying straightforwardly what they and many other people around them believe. They're articulating the conventional wisdom in their echo chambers, without softening it down. It only sounds shocking to us left-of-center types because we're protected in our own echo chambers. They believe that if women are going to spread their legs, they deserve to get pregnant. They believe that most of what you and I would call rape today is just some slut who got angry because the dude didn’t take her out to breakfast the next morning.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:12 AM on October 24, 2012 [10 favorites]




Reactions to Donald Trumps big announcement:
"Our expectations about @realDonaldTrump's Obama announcement were clearly not low enough," New York magazine said on its Twitter feed.

"BREAKING: Donald Trump demands to know what medical school Dr. Dre went to," @BScalabrine24 wrote on Twitter.

"Trump will give $5 million if Obama releases his college records," Twitter user @WatchJ tweeted. "I'll give a crackhead $3 if Trump releases that squirrel sittin' on his head."

"BREAKING: Donald Trump replaces bed bugs as Americas #1 Pest," Lizz Winstead tweeted.

"We're going to make a very important cat announcement shortly that will change the Internet," Buzzfeed declared.

"Sorry Trump, but in the same way the U.S. doesn't negotiate with terrorists, presidents shouldn't negotiate with idiots," @the_moonface wrote.

"This Donald Trump character is Andy Kaufman's greatest bit ever," Aaron Blitzstein tweeted.

"Donald Trump is the Honey Boo Boo of rich people," the fake Morgan Freeman said.

"Trump, would you be a dear and offer 5 million dollars if Romney will reveal ANY PART of his economic plan?" Alex Baze wrote on Twitter.

The Onion tweeted: "'I'm a sad, pathetic human being and a complete waste of life.' — Donald Trump."

posted by Skygazer at 11:15 AM on October 24, 2012 [12 favorites]


I'll personally give Trump $50 if he releases a picture of what his hair looks coming out of a swimming pool without a swim cap. What are you hiding, Mr. Trump?
posted by benito.strauss at 11:20 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Does God Want You to Be Raped?

According to Murdock, the rape isn't part of God's plan. Just the pregnancy.

So, apparently, you have to be raped because God can't just get you pregnant.

God sounds kind of like a dick, man.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:23 AM on October 24, 2012 [6 favorites]


Seriously, I think Obama should respond.

The Donald: Five million dollars to a good cause is a worthwhile offer. First, put your offer in writing. Second, put the money in an escrow account, distribution to be enacted by a non-partial judge. Third, it is inappropriate for you to be the judge of what is provided is to your satisfaction. An impartial respected judge can do that.

Five million dollars is more than a fair amount for really boring stuff.

Looking forward to your money, The Barack.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:28 AM on October 24, 2012 [8 favorites]


Well you know the whole cuckold-ing Joesph story.
posted by edgeways at 11:28 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


The Supersizing of American Politics
It’s as if no one can stop talking about what might otherwise be one of the least energizing elections in recent history: the most vulnerable president in memory versus a candidate who somehow threatens not to beat him, two men about as inspired as a couple of old beanbag chairs. And yet the words about the thrill of it all just keep on pouring out. They stagger (or perhaps stun) the imagination. They are almost all horse race- and performance-oriented. Who is ahead and why? Who is preparing for what and how? Who has the most momentary of advantages and why? Who looked better, talked tougher, or out-maneuvered whom?

It never seems to end, and why should it? After all, it’s the profit-center of the ages, pure money on a stick. And there’s just so much to say about what is surely an event for the record books. The only question (and it’s not one to be taken lightly) is: What is it?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:30 AM on October 24, 2012


First, put your offer in writing. Second,...

This sounds great and all, but the office of the president has already been drug through the mud a bit with the whole news-cycle/debate/bullshit mountain stuff already.

Ignoring the fact that the writing for this offer would be so convoluted as to be indecipherable, the escrow would be held indefinetly, and lawyers would make more than $5 million before Trump hands a dime over to Obama when he discovers he got a C in "American History Early 1800's to 1940, The Dilemma", I just don't see this as being worth Obama's breath.

Haters gonna hate.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:33 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]




So, apparently, you have to be raped because God can't just get you pregnant.

God sounds kind of like a dick, man.


Just incompetent. I mean, Zeus managed to get mortal women pregnant without outsourcing the rape to someone else. What kind of god just hires stuff out?
posted by rtha at 11:40 AM on October 24, 2012 [16 favorites]


While I agree may be that bringing this up at all could be counterproductive to Obama (it's non-presidential to pay attention to that idiot), it may be turning a spotlight on this idiocy gins up the idiocy for a few news cycles which allows everyone to see how stupid these attacks are.
Besides, Trump is bluster. He will say it is beneath him to put it in writing or that his word on whether what he receives is good enough. In the case of the birth certificate - not real enough.
Regardless, Trump will panic when the practicality of all of this would push it past the election date.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:41 AM on October 24, 2012


"America is stuck in a ditch. My administration and the American people have been working hard to pull us out of it. If Mr. Trump wants to get out of the car and help push by donating that $5 million to charity, we'd welcome that action.

Otherwise, we're busy fighting to get us back on the road and don't have time for games."
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:47 AM on October 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


I just don't see this as being worth Obama's breath.

It's not, but if it were me I would be pretty tempted to go for it and then insist that the money be donated to, like, Planned Parenthood, or some organization for gay teens, or something.

I will never be president.
posted by naoko at 11:48 AM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


I really hope someone in the press points out that Trump just attempted to blackmail/bribe/extort the sitting president of the United States. I'm not holding my breath or anything. It's just another example of the complete hypocrisy of the idea that no matter what you think of the person, you should respect the office. It's a testament to the even-keeled nature of Obama that I admire.

No matter how evil people try to claim he is, the fact that he hasn't drawn up an enemies list and used the full power and influence of his office to utterly destroy these clowns is a marvel of self-restraint. And if you think that sounds far-fetched, the Bush/Cheney administration totally went after their critics in this way.
posted by billyfleetwood at 11:49 AM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


I was hoping for something hilarious from Trump, but this is just sad.
posted by Arbac at 12:04 PM on October 24, 2012


The 47% just keeps on forty seven percentin'. Jay Smooth's video for Actually...
posted by cashman at 12:07 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Okay - who remembers that old Letterman bit "Trump or Monkey"? Where they show a corner of a photo and the audience has to guess whether it's a photo of Trump's toupee or a monkey?

Paul Shaffer and the band would always introduce it with a jingle adapted from Mickey's Monkey by the Miracles, and since Trump's announcement I've got a filk of that stuck in my head -

"Trump, Obama, la-la,
Trump, Obama, la-la....."

help me.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:11 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


I can't stand Sarah Silverman but this (from the Actually... videos) was actually funny and they showed a Mitt Romney clip I'd never seen before.
posted by cashman at 12:14 PM on October 24, 2012


Charles Pierce: Down the Rabbit Hole with Sarah Palin & Megyn Kelly

The Southern Strategy is alive and well.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:22 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wow, I just listened to the Trump video. I encourage all of you to avoid it. To facilitate this I'll do my part. It's so full of irony and lies in the 2:45 seconds that I can't even begin to state them all here.

Highlights:

"President Obama is the least transparent president in the history of this country. There's never been anything like it."

I'll avoid saying something about how a president's transparency level seems to be inversely proportional to their skin pigment color and just say this, tax records.

"I am very honored to have gotten him to release his long form birth certificate... Or whatever it may be!"

So, speaking oddities aside, right? He's basically saying 'I'm proud to have gotten this thing out of him, that I'm still not satisfied with by the way. Look on me in awe.'

"I have a deal he can't refuse, and I hope he doesn't."

Was this a play on words or does he really think he's the Godfather?

"The check will be given one hour after he releases all of the records, so stated."

I claim you are a dick, so stated.

"Their President will become transparent, like other Presidents!"

First he was the Godfather, now he's David Copperfield!

"When he does that to my satisfaction, if it's complete.... this check is delivered immediately."

Like how you were satisfied with the long form birth certificate? C'mon now Trumpy? Who you trying to fool here?

"Frankly it's a check that I very much want to write, I absolutely would be the most happy of all, if I did in fact make the contribution through the President through the President."

Yea, so just cut the check? You'll be mostly happy, if not completely happy that way...

"One caveat! The records must be given by..."

Tacking this onto the other caveats that basically add up to 'I'll give you the money if I damn well please if you dance for me the way I like my people to dance'.

"Mr. President, not only will I be totally happy, and completely satisfied...."


Please someone on the internet make a mashup video of Obama making Trump 'completely satisfied'. This is a thing you must do for me.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:23 PM on October 24, 2012 [6 favorites]


Thanks, RolandOfEld. Your sacrifice is duly noted.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 12:26 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Please someone on the internet make a mashup video of Obama making Trump 'completely satisfied'.

Ew.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:28 PM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


I will give $5 million dollars to the first person who scans in their college admission application from at least 30 years ago. You have two minutes.

Don't you want my $5 million dollars??? Where is the transparency???
posted by muddgirl at 12:30 PM on October 24, 2012 [7 favorites]


Please someone on the internet make a mashup video of Obama making Trump 'completely satisfied'. This is a thing you must do for me.

There ain't enough brain bleach in the world....
posted by zarq at 12:31 PM on October 24, 2012


Donald is at this moment filming Celebrity Apprentice, and probably would like some publicity.

I expect tomorrow to be underwhelming.


Haha, I knew I'd be right, but this is hysterical. dang.

(Do I get a cookie? )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:33 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


(Do I get a cookie? )

Sure!

Trump Cookies are gonna be the biggest, the best and the most delicious cookies you've ever had. Game changers, every single one. Every detail on these babies has been crafted with love by top experts in the field of cookie making. I defy you to eat just one.
posted by zarq at 12:38 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


I think it's extraordinarily condescending to imagine that the poorer, less-educated, more-unemployed non-voters are somehow not making that choice not to vote (it just happens to them, like an act of god?)

I'm not trying to argue for the "only white, male, employed people refuse to vote on principle" idea, but there are lots of reasons people don't vote. Check out this study of why voting rates were declining in Canada, which breaks out 16 different reasons not to vote. Basically non-voters split roughly by thirds between lack of interest (e.g. "who cares about politics?", "I don't live in a swing state anyway"), negativity (e.g. "all the candidates are bad", "no one does what they say they'll do anyway"), and logistics (e.g. "I was too busy", "I couldn't figure out how to register").

The group we're talking about here is non-voters who fall purely into the "negativity" camp -- they follow politics, they know there's a contested election, they have the time and ability to vote, but they still choose not to vote as a rejection of the candidates or the system. The study suggests that's likely to be a third of non-voters or less, which sounds about right to me.

Specifically as to that third, it's fair to ask whether they're acting from privilege -- whether they can afford to stand on principle because they personally will be just as well off and won't have their rights particularly infringed by either viable candidate.
posted by jhc at 12:52 PM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


...Obama lost me at "America remains the one indispensable nation". Offensive. Enough said.

If you want to understand the psychology of the American electorate you have to remember one thing. They are absolutely convinced that the US is the country that beat Hitler. There's a kernel of truth to this - the Allies were much better off in that they had a huge industrial base safely out of harms way - but you can pretty much bet that the US electorate is thinking of John Wayne in The Longest Day when they think this. They probably have never heard of the Battles of Stalingrad, Tobruk or El Alamein and would be stunned to learn that the US wasn't involved in any of them, but there you go. So, by virtue of having the bomb and not getting the living shit blown out of it by the Luftwafe, the US emerged from WWII as a superpower against which Stalin was more than willing to play the heavy. (The Soviets had their own issues post WWII, see the Battle of Stalingrad, but that's another story.)

So of course we're indispensable. We've got to keep a lonely vigil watching out for the Fourth Reich to jump, fully formed, out of a closet somewhere! Nobody else is doing it. And we keep seeing Fourth Reichs too - just look at the far right wing guy I know who I'm busily ignoring on Facebook. The US is staring down at least eight or nine Fourth Reichs as we speak! (Of course, the bar for nascent Fourth Reich has gotten so low that it's now a tripping hazard.)

It's kind of sad in an "I could have been a contender" / borderline psychotic / "I take my zombie survival plan VERY SERIOUSLY" sort of way, but it is what it is, and as long as the US has two nickels to rub together nobody is going to get elected President here if they don't stand up and salute this myth.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 1:16 PM on October 24, 2012 [11 favorites]


So what I'm taking away from today is that Donald Trump is bargain bin Lex Luthor with a little Nerf version of a supervillain extortion video.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:21 PM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


I will give $5 million dollars to the first person who scans in their college admission application from at least 30 years ago. You have two minutes.

Man, I wish you'd made this offer sometime last year, when I was rooting around in the boxes in the attic, looking for...something, and found a box of my mom's stuff that yes, had copies of all my college applications! Although, come to think of it, they're from slightly less than 30 years ago, dammit!
posted by rtha at 1:26 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


This is just marlarky talking but I think the flirtation with Romney is wearing off. The aggregate polls seem to be swinging back towards Obama, even Gallup seems to be recovering it's balance at least somewhat.. I doubt if we'd get back into the stratosphere from early in the month, but I wouldn't be shocked if this time next week Obama is back around mid 70's at 538.

In OH Obama is crushing early votes 60:30
posted by edgeways at 1:35 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Trump Cookies are gonna be the biggest, the best and the most delicious cookies you've ever had.

FOX News: Ivanka Trump's Chocolate Chip Cookies.
posted by ericb at 1:39 PM on October 24, 2012


I believe that inside us all capers a little Donald Trump, making faces and otherwise protesting the limits of mortality.
posted by angrycat at 1:41 PM on October 24, 2012


Tagg Romney does not have a controlling interest in Ohio voting machines: Snopes link.
posted by Andrhia at 1:43 PM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


From the past hour: COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A federal judge has granted a request by a group of voter advocates to expand the conditions under which provisional ballots are counted in Ohio.

U.S. District Judge Algenon Marbley ruled Wednesday that provisional ballots cast not just in the wrong precinct but in the wrong polling location altogether must still be counted.
posted by cashman at 1:44 PM on October 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Kid Charlemagne nails it on the American self image. It's getting a little bit better, but many people really believe that we are sort of a helpful Christian Boy Scout helping the little old ladies of the world across the street. The fact that we are an 800 pound adolescent gorilla with too many sparkling weapons to play with, who gets really violent when denied his bananas oil, is somehow missed.

In fairness to Obama, there are several ways in which the U.S. is in fact indispensable to our current world system, such as it is, from the strength of our economy and the stability of our currency to our support for the United Nations and massive investment in research and education. I'm not saying we have an excellent world order, but if the U.S. collapsed tomorrow, a lot of the world's population would suffer as a result.
posted by msalt at 1:45 PM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


The fact that we spend way too much on our military also means a bunch of other countries don't have to spend very much at all since they know we'd kick the crap out of anybody who got overly ambitious.
posted by Justinian at 1:49 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I believe that inside us all capers a little Donald Trump

Little Donald Trump capers look exactly like rabbit droppings. I am just saying.
posted by headnsouth at 1:52 PM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


edgeways: "In OH Obama is crushing early votes 60:30"

Why is this metric even available at this point in time?
posted by boo_radley at 1:54 PM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Tagg Romney does not have a controlling interest in Ohio voting machines: Snopes link.

Relevant quote:
"It is true that H.I.G. Capital's co-founder, Anthony Tamer, and several of H.I.G.'s managing directors once worked at Bain & Company (whose CEO was Mitt Romney); that Anthony Tamer and his wife are donors to the Romney campaign; and that H.I.G. Capital is the sixth-largest financial contributor to Romney fundraising committees; and it is true that Tagg Romney's firm, Solamere, has investments in other H.I.G. funds that are run by partners who are former Romney colleagues and current Romney fundraisers, and those partners also manage the fund invested in Hart Intercivic. That close a connection between the Romney family, Romney campaign contributors, and a provider of voting systems may raise some eyebrows, but it doesn't establish any direct ownership link between Tagg Romney and a provider of voting systems."
Yup. My eyebrows are raised, as they were ever since...
"[Electronic Voting Machine company] Diebold’s founder, Walden O’Dell, had vowed to deliver Ohio’s electoral votes—and thus the presidency—to his friend George W. Bush. That it was done in part on electronic voting machines and software O’Dell happened to own (Diebold has since changed hands twice) remains a cautionary red flag for those who believe merely winning the popular vote will give Barack Obama a second term.

... US courts have consistently ruled that the software in electronic voting machines is proprietary to the manufacturer, even though individual election boards may own the actual machines. Thus there will be no vote count transparency on election night in Ohio. The tally will be conducted by Hart Intercivic and controlled by Husted and Kasich, with no public recourse or accountability. As federal testimony from the deceased Michael Connell made clear in 2008, electronically flipping an election is relatively cheap and easy to do, especially if you or your compatriots programmed the machines.

So as the corporate media swarm through Ohio, reporting breathlessly from 'ground zero' in Cincinnati, don’t hold your own breath waiting for them to also clarify that the voting machines in what may once again be America’s decisive swing state are owned, programmed and tabulated by some of the Romney campaign’s closest associates."
posted by ericb at 1:58 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


"In OH Obama is crushing early votes 60:30"

Why is this metric even available at this point in time?


Here: TIME poll info. Among the poll respondents who already voted, Obama has a huge lead.
posted by saturday_morning at 1:59 PM on October 24, 2012




The fact that we spend way too much on our military also means a bunch of other countries don't have to spend very much at all since they know we'd kick the crap out of anybody who got overly ambitious.

Counterpoint: North Korea

It's widely accepted that Rasmussen's "House Effect" as it's called, is slanted towards the GOP by anywhere from 3.8% +, per Nate Silver?

I'm always amazed that people who aren't professionally in politics follow polls. Why on Earth? Are you that concerned that you're voting for the winning side? I guess so ...

"Republicans Desperate to Spin Romney as the Front-Runner Are Becoming 'Nate Silver Truthers'"
posted by mrgrimm at 2:08 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]






I'm always amazed that people who aren't professionally in politics follow polls. Why on Earth? Are you that concerned that you're voting for the winning side?

I follow them because I want to make sure my side is going to win. They directly affect how frequently and how much I donate to Obama as well as how much of my weekends / evenings I devote to volunteering. If Obama was trouncing Romney in the polls for instance then I wouldn't bother with either.
posted by NailsTheCat at 2:23 PM on October 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Charming: Palin accuses President of 'shuck and jive' on Libya

What a picture of Palin. Always with that smug-ass smirk. What is it with the right and the fucking smirking? I guess it just helps make them look as stupid as they sound.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 2:52 PM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


I can see her smirk from my backyard.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:53 PM on October 24, 2012 [8 favorites]


I think the Smirky Right is a response to the Educated Left -- like, okay, you may have facts but NYAH WE DON'T CARE.

Which is, yes, a very gradeschool way of handling these things.
posted by cmyk at 2:55 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


everybody smirks.it's just easier to see across the fence.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:01 PM on October 24, 2012 [5 favorites]




Sorry, I got links crossed. Smirking pic is from from tonycpsu's link.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 3:10 PM on October 24, 2012


Jimmy Kimmel Live: Obama and Romney as Talking Twin Babies.
posted by ericb at 3:14 PM on October 24, 2012


Two interesting articles that bode well for Obama.

Mark Halperin: The Latest View from One Prudential Plaza: Why the Obama Campaign Is (Still) So Confident About Beating Romney
MARK HALPERIN: So, again, you’re very careful and meticulous and lucky to have a lot of experience but if you woke up and lost because you had modeled what the electorate would look like wrong, would that stun you?

SENIOR OBAMA CAMPAIGN OFFICIAL: We have confidence in our modeling. I mean, the honest answer is yes, it would stun me. It would stun me. Because we’ve been very assiduous about this. Put a lot of resources into it. I think that the early returns in terms of early voting, registration have been reflective of the work and, I think, are, you know, are supportive of the analysis. So, yes. I would be stunned if we lost this race because we modeled it wrong.
Molly Ball: Obama's Edge: The Ground Game That Could Put Him Over the Top

The Molly Ball article is particularly good. A must-read for the junkies.
posted by Bokmakierie at 3:53 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Paul Ryan: No, I Want to Help the Poor! Really!
Mostly, he talks about welfare reform. There is a consensus that welfare as we knew it did create serious cultural pathologies. Ryan cites the case of welfare reform frequently. To him, it proves that large cuts to programs that help poor people of any kind at all are not only harmless but will help the poor. “The welfare-reform mindset hasn’t been applied with equal vigor across the spectrum of anti-poverty programs,” he says. Thus he proposes enormous cuts — to children’s health-insurance grants, Head Start, food stamps, and, especially, Medicaid, which would have to throw about half its current beneficiaries off their coverage under his proposal.

Ryan paints a picture in which we face an impending debt crisis but also have the good fortune of spending cast sums on poor people in a way that harms them, allowing us to reap large budgetary savings while giving the poor a helping hand. What an incredible stroke of good fortune!
I've always felt that a good kick in the ass to the legless vet begging for handouts is the best way to get him out of the wheelchair and into a job. As for orphans, don't make me laugh! I hear selling chiclets on the street and scavenging garbage dumps can make your fortune.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:17 PM on October 24, 2012 [13 favorites]


Charming: Palin accuses President of 'shuck and jive' on Libya

She's like a piece of gum that got stuck on the media's shoe and they can't seem to get her off. Damn you, McCain! (and all your camp followers like Bill Kristol)
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:21 PM on October 24, 2012


Voting dirty tricks begin
The Election Protection hotline has received reports of voters in Florida and Virginia receiving calls telling them that a new law has passed that allow voters to vote by phone with just a name and address. The caller knows the voter’s name, address and party affiliation.
The article goes on to state that there have always been "dirty tricks" at the polling booth but this year it has started earlier. And speaking of dirty tricks...

Texas Official Threatens Election Observers With Arrest And Prosecution
More right-wing politicians are warning incoming international observers not to interfere in the U.S. elections, or else. Among them is Texas Attorney General Greg Abbot, who sent the head of an Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) observers team a terse letter informing them that any attempt to meddle in voting will result in arrest and prosecution.
It's one thing for Americans to go to other countries and observe their elections but we will not stand for anyone treating us like a third world country! Even if we act like one.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:28 PM on October 24, 2012 [6 favorites]


There is a consensus that welfare as we knew it did create serious cultural pathologies.

By far the biggest cultural pathology was requiring that a single woman with children could not have an unemployed husband in the house (the so-called "man in the house" rule). Thus, a couple with no job was required to live apart if they wanted the government to provide funds and food for their children. Once the single-mom paradigm was established, fundamental changes in the culture of the poor had come about.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:39 PM on October 24, 2012 [6 favorites]


Oh Joe! In Ohio, Biden says he is in Iowa.

I would hate the campaign trail myself; it must be exhausting. And the guy is what? 69?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:42 PM on October 24, 2012


I can't help but imagine Biden on the road as a foul-mouthed version of Paul's grandfather from 'A Hard Day's Night.'

Look, I thought I was supposed to be getting a change of scenery. But so far, I've been in a train and a room, and a car and a room, and a room and a room. Well, maybe that's all right for a bunch of powdered gee-gahs like yourselves, but I'm feeling decidedly strait-jacketed.

And then he asks for the motherfucking bacon.
posted by cmyk at 5:03 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


The Virtues and Vices of Election Prediction Markets (Nate Silver)

Ohio went down to 50-50 on Intrade last night and is now back to 60-40! Obama was down to 55-45 and is back to 60-40. Bizarre.

The general question of whether FiveThirtyEight ought to be better than prediction and betting markets is an interesting one. I am far from an efficient-market hypothesis purist, but markets are tough to beat in most circumstances. Furthermore, the FiveThirtyEight forecasts are public information, and bettors can use our forecasts along with those of our competitors to calibrate their estimates of the outcomes.

According to Brandon Adams, a professional poker player and a teaching fellow at Harvard, Intrade’s prices are not necessarily considered more reliable by professional gamblers. Mr. Adams says that Betfair and the sports book Pinnacle, both of which put Mr. Obama’s odds at about 63 percent as of early Wednesday morning, feature more sophisticated market participants.
posted by Golden Eternity at 5:10 PM on October 24, 2012


"man in the house" rule...Once the single-mom paradigm was established, fundamental changes in the culture of the poor had come about.

Is there evidence that the rule is connected to the growth of single parenthood? Rates are pretty much the same in the US and the UK (~25% of children), and there is no historical equivalent of the man in the house rule here.
posted by howfar at 5:10 PM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


On the CNN ''health'' page they had up an article today asking if 'hormones where responsible for how women vote'. Just went there to grab the URL to link and it looks like they caught so much backlash about it they actually recended the article.
posted by edgeways at 5:23 PM on October 24, 2012


Guys I've lost track of the point of the Libya story that the GOP is pushing. The gist is that Obama lied, sure, but they're only saying he lied in the response to the attack, right? I don't get why they're so focused on that. Is it supposed to prove he's soft on terror, he could have prevented the attack, Romney won a debate point...? Please explain.
posted by shakespeherian at 5:49 PM on October 24, 2012


My take on it, shakespeherian, is that they think the administration is hiding stuff about the attack because a terrorist attack that killed the ambassador would be "bad politics" right before the election.
posted by cooker girl at 5:51 PM on October 24, 2012


Jezebel has the PMS-made-me-vote-Romney projectile text

/angrycat does her interpretive FUCK YOU dance
posted by angrycat at 5:55 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


So it's unrelated to the 'apologizing for America' thing?
posted by shakespeherian at 5:58 PM on October 24, 2012


So it's unrelated to the 'apologizing for America' thing?

I believe so. Then again, they change their minds so damned often, who can really tell? The narrative may change tomorrow. And then the next day.
posted by cooker girl at 6:00 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh crimmeny! Is it just me or has there been a recent surge in women bashing? I just don't remember all this talk about hormones and rape and birth control, etc. 10 years ago. It is almost as if a certain group of men woke up from their slumber and said, "Wait a minute! The women are getting uppity, time to regain some control."

TP had interviewed Murdock months ago (before his "rape babies are a gift from god" spiel) and he had a few things to say about birth control. ThinkProgress spoke with him at the 2012 Conservative Political Action Conference about Rick Santorum’s belief that insurance plans shouldn’t cover birth control at all. When asked whether he agreed with Santorum on the matter, Mourdock replied: “I do, I do.”
Santorum reasoned, insurance companies shouldn’t cover birth control at all, regardless of co-pay, because as he said, contraception is a “relatively small expenditure” that women shouldn’t “need insurance for.” In fact, women spend about 68 percent more than men do on their out-of-pocket health care expenses, partly because of the high cost of contraceptive services, and one in three women has reported struggling to afford birth control at some point in their lives.

Earlier this week, Mitt Romney starred in an ad for Mourdock, asking voters to “join me in supporting Richard Mourdock for U.S. Senate.” Romney has not cut an ad for any other Senate candidates in the general election.
Interesting that Mourdock was the only Senate candidate that Romney made a campaign ad for.

Also, don't you just love how these two men are deciding what they think your insurance should cover? They are not insurance execs or employers, just fucking representatives...who are supposed to be goddamn representing their constituents! Including women!


As a nice little service to those of you trying to keep track, TP has done a quick round-up of the other Republicans pushing to block abortions for rape victims.
STATE REP. JIM BUCHY (R-OH): admitted that never thought about why a woman would want an abortion. After an Al Jazeera reporter asked Buchy why he thinks some women may want to have an abortion, he fumbled for an appropriate response before admitting he had never thought about that question before.
Great, just great. I'm so glad that Buchy is giving his opinion on a very serious topic that affects real women with enormous consequences without Buchy actually thinking first. That's just terrific.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:03 PM on October 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


The researchers found that during the fertile time of the month, when levels of the hormone estrogen are high, single women appeared more likely to vote for Obama and committed women appeared more likely to vote for Romney, by a margin of at least 20%, Durante said. This seems to be the driver behind the researchers' overall observation that single women were inclined toward Obama and committed women leaned toward Romney.

Here's how Durante explains this: When women are ovulating, they "feel sexier," and therefore lean more toward liberal attitudes on abortion and marriage equality. Married women have the same hormones firing, but tend to take the opposite viewpoint on these issues, she says.
So where is the study that shows how men who just got laid vote versus the men who haven't been laid recently? Eh? Or how about the men who are deliberately celibate vs. the men who beat off? Where is that study?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:10 PM on October 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


Here is Rep. Gwen Moore, D-Wisc. discussing Mourdock and GOP abortion politics on Hardball. She's exceedingly eloquent and compelling.
posted by Bokmakierie at 6:17 PM on October 24, 2012


When women are ovulating, they "feel sexier," and therefore lean more toward liberal attitudes on abortion and marriage equality.

"mmm..I feel so sexy, I want someone to D&C the fuck outta my uterus..."
posted by howfar at 6:17 PM on October 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Just went there to grab the URL to link and it looks like they caught so much backlash about it they actually recended the article.

CNN did remove it.

Full text here.

While it lasts anyway.
Please continue reading with caution. Although the study will be published in the peer-reviewed journal Psychological Science, several political scientists who read the study have expressed skepticism about its conclusions.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:19 PM on October 24, 2012


These are the kinds of moments when I realize that no, I'm not crazy to continue taking the need for feminism seriously, and no, I'm not crazy to object to casual sexism. Because it so quickly becomes institutional, and becomes SO institutional that it can be posted on CNN and make it through some set of editorial hoops and envisioned as a perfectly viable and reasonable fair discussion of politics and gender.

It's so not over. The work, it's so not done. Sorry we keep having to deal with it, but as long as this shit happens....on major mainstream news sites....we do.
posted by Miko at 6:31 PM on October 24, 2012 [24 favorites]


While (at least) one author cited in the CNN study does have a Ph.D. in social psychology, a blogger points out that all three authors work in marketing programs. I'd be interested to see what sort of disciplinary biases are at play in their research (not, you know, interested enough to read the paper, but I'd like to hear more about those who expressed scepticism).
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:33 PM on October 24, 2012


It doesn't really matter what their training is, what their work is. An editorial decision was made to publish this with a particular spin, not to seek a similar story about men, if there is even research on hormones, men, and voting, and it is incredibly insulting and irresponsible all around. The worst of the worst of "science" "reporting."
posted by Miko at 6:36 PM on October 24, 2012 [11 favorites]


And look at how much attention it got -- from their view it's a tremendous success.
posted by ceribus peribus at 6:51 PM on October 24, 2012


There is a man running for office in my district named Larry Fenton.

I sent his campaign an email proposing they make their campaign slogan "FENTON! FENTON! JESUS CHRIST FENTON!" but I never heard back from them.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:57 PM on October 24, 2012 [12 favorites]


Not if they're good analysts. Someone who comes to your site only to complain once about something they learned about on a third party outlet and never returns is not the ideal user profile.
posted by Miko at 6:58 PM on October 24, 2012


Miko, I don't disagree at all regarding the news. I was interested in the scholarly angle because it caught my attention as an academic. Working in higher education, I encounter plenty of sobering moments that, as you say, remind me to continually take the need for feminism seriously and to object to casual sexism. These moments occur even in fields that have welcomed feminist scholarship, so I can only imagine what goes on in fields where methodologies are less open to feminist perspectives.
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:05 PM on October 24, 2012


Oh, I don't disagree with you on that at all. Sorry to misunderstand your post. There are certainly plenty of people in the academy who advance their portfolios by participating in sensationalistic efforts like those that went into framing these questions, crafting this study, and concocting this news story. You're right, that's interesting to look at too. I have a bit of a journalism obsession and was focusing on the decision to publish the study even with that massive disclaimer about "skepticism" in it. Very, very poor decision. That sidetracked me.
posted by Miko at 7:23 PM on October 24, 2012


GOP Rape Advisory
posted by Miko at 7:25 PM on October 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


Key and Peele Obama and Luther skit was definitely on point tonight. I'm loving their season corresponding to the end of the presidential race. Helps reduce some of the tension.
posted by vuron at 7:34 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Key and Peele Obama and Luther skit was definitely on point tonight.

I was just about to put that right here, so here you go.

(Apologies if content is not available in some countries.)
posted by hippybear at 7:53 PM on October 24, 2012 [6 favorites]



Key and Peele Obama and Luther skit was definitely on point tonight.


"Syria is two goddamned countries that way!"

R.O.F.L.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:21 PM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Mr. Grimm: I'm always amazed that people who aren't professionally in politics follow polls. Why on Earth? Are you that concerned that you're voting for the winning side? I guess so ...


Well...I wasn't sure how to take that question, or if it's even serious, but I guess for me, ultimately, I'm fascinated by this amazing abstract thing called America, and the way it thinks, and what moves it and what doesn't. It's values, it's thoughts and concerns, it's weaknesses and strengths, and the way it sees itself in the world, and where I might fit into any of it, and if I even want to fit into it...

Plus, Obama is the first president in my lifetime, I really and truly identify with, and I think he's a person to emulate in ways, and I think this country is going through unbelievable societal and cultural shifts on every front and I'm deeply concerned that a person as limited in imagination and compassion and adaptability as a Romney would be a disaster. I think the country has almost fallen into fabulous good luck with a president Obama, and I think he needs to lead the nation and he needs to be the one at the forefront of many questions dealing with the future of this country because he's the way forward for this country.

Romney is stagnation, decadence, nostalgia. Not to mention a complete liar. This country can't give in to that bullshit egregious fantasy nostalgia shit, that right there would be a travesty.

That being said there are serious things that Obama needs to be held to in his second term. A very careful and meticulious accounting needs to take place on how and when drones are used. This idea of a "kill list" needs to be made a thing of the past...the banks and Wall Street need to be put back under a new Glass-Stegall act..on and on it goes...

Obama, cannot be playing mister reach across the aisle in his second term. He needs to crush GOtP-er heads in the Congress and get this shit done, and I think he will.

So yeah, polls are interesting....
posted by Skygazer at 8:25 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Stephen Colbert has just 1-upped Donald Trump. Colbert will donate 1 million dollars from the Colbert SuperPAC if he lets Colbert dip his balls in Trumps mouth. His balls must be in Trump's mouth by 5pm, October 31st. And his balls, and him will be satisfied, he says.

Because something going in Trump's mouth is better than anything coming out of it.
posted by cashman at 8:38 PM on October 24, 2012 [20 favorites]


Colbert will donate 1 million dollars from the Colbert SuperPAC if he lets Colbert dip his balls in Trumps mouth.

I'm torn between "please let this happen" and revulsion that any part of Stephen may be contaminated by contact with Trump.
posted by sallybrown at 8:52 PM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Mr. Colbert,

Today I heard you on NPR and you sounded really cool. Thanks for confirming it to be true.

Sincerely,
A Fan
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:54 PM on October 24, 2012


The Fox headline graphic has been devolving in to Drudge standards by the day.
CLINTON ON LIBYA EMAILS: SOCIAL MEDIA 'NOT EVIDENCE'
(but the State Dept. emails show YOU KNEW, right?)

So it's not even a QUESTION MARK? headline, it's a snarky ignorant question inserted via parentheses.
From a major mainstream news organization.
WHAT.

Someone grab a screen cap of that shit. Does anyone archive these headlines, say, automatically on an hourly basis?
What a flood of batshit panic. Is their news editor plucked ripe from a high school monthly newspaper?


I didn't see any headlines like that on Fox News, and the closest I found was Clinton downplays emails implicating militant group within hours of Libya strike, but Fox News Insider has an article with the headline Clinton Dismisses Social Media As ‘Not Evidence’ in Libya Attack, So Why Was YouTube Video Touted as Evidence?. Apparently, FNI is "The Official Live Blog of Fox News Channel," and because it's a "live blog," journalistic standards can get tossed out. It's a blog, go crazy!
posted by filthy light thief at 8:57 PM on October 24, 2012


Metafilter: It's a blog, go crazy!
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:58 PM on October 24, 2012 [6 favorites]


ericb: Exclusive: Obama, 'The things I say, I mean'.
“You guys have some short memories. Folks in your business were writing me off a year ago, saying there's no way I would win,” President Obama said. “These things go in ebbs and flows and, you know, the one thing I've tried to always be is just steady in terms of what I believe in, who I'm fighting for, and, you know, I think that one of the qualities I bring to bear in this campaign is, people see, what did I say I was going to do in 2008? And what have I delivered? And they can have some confidence that the things I say, I mean.”
I love that Obama called Brian Williams on the stupid short-term memory of most current news programs. Again, The Daily Show and their database and archive of political news is ahead of "real" news programs, but I guess it's easier to have interns or staff or whoever comb through material when you have a mere half hour of programming per day, vs hours and hours on other channels.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:15 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Colbert was really on fire tonight. His bit about "reporters" making statements in the form of questions was exactly on the mark and really well done.

Stewart said he had footage of Trump making his announcement, and then showed footage of a gorilla eating its own feces. He also said he had footage of Palin's "shuck and jive" comment and showed footage of a rhino flicking its plentiful shit around with it's own tail as it was being excreted.

(Stewart also spent a huge portion of his show talking about employment difficulties faced by returning veterans. Sounds like he's found another cause to take up alongside his 9/11 first responders thing.)
posted by hippybear at 9:17 PM on October 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


(What I'm trying to say is, I think Stewart and Colbert are as sick of election coverage as I am, and it has them feeling like making very pointy pointed points.)
posted by hippybear at 9:21 PM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


YouTube link to the Key and Peele Sketch uploads by the Comedy Central official account.
posted by humanfont at 9:27 PM on October 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


I never fail to smile broadly and feel warmth when Colbert winds up an interview. He thanks his guest, the guest beams back at him -- the pleasure on their face so apparent. And when the camera pulls out you see them lean over and thank one another again. It just looks so sincere and genuine and... and... well it's just a nice break from the duplicity that's plastered everywhere else.
posted by NailsTheCat at 9:33 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]




Oh, and here's more on the story:
Donna Harris was appointed to her position by her husband, Keith Harris, acting as chair of the LP County GOP chair.

Keith Harris is the GOP candidate for Clerk of the Circuit Court—and if elected, would replace Lynn Spevak on our Election Board.

posted by dirigibleman at 9:40 PM on October 24, 2012


Yeah, both Stewart and Colbert were good tonight.

I have a dear relative, a veteran, who has not been able to find decent work. It was great that Stewart talked about this issue.

And I loved Colbert too. My jaw hit the floor when i heard him make that offer to squirrel-head. He didn't make much effort to cover his contempt or stick to character for any of the segments.
posted by annsunny at 9:41 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


You know, I really like Key and Peele. The full context of Pogo_Fuzzybutt's quote above for those who don't want to bother watching, GOLD:
Obama: I asked you about your stance on Syria, which you called "Iran's route to the sea."

Obama's Anger Translator, Luther: Hey, dummy, look: *pulls down map* Iran is ON the sea. Syria's two goddamn countries this way. Bam! *points* which is a city in Iran.
posted by maryr at 9:47 PM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


Doubts surface over e-mail on claim of responsibility for Benghazi attack

However, an examination of the known Facebook and Twitter accounts of Ansar al-Sharia in Benghazi reveals no such claim of responsibility..... The posting continues: "Ansar al-Sharia brigade did not officially participate as a military body, nor received any orders directed from the brigade."

Fox News is gonna have to try harder. Time is running out.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:52 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


filthy light thief: "Sadly, putting all your faith in God's Grand Designs is not unique to men. An older white lady, when asked about the Colorado movie theater shootings back in July, said something along the lines of 'it's all part of God's plan' or 'it was God's will.'"

Pogo_Fuzzybutt: "According to Murdock, the rape isn't part of God's plan. Just the pregnancy. "

If you think a problem is "part of God's plan", consider that God's hoping you'll help out somehow.
posted by Riki tiki at 10:21 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


on an unrelated note, speaking as someone who loves words, twitter's influence on our national discourse is an extremely frustrating phenome
posted by Riki tiki at 10:21 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


whereas most speakers find d͡ɮ an extremely frustrating phoneme
posted by cortex at 10:32 PM on October 24, 2012 [12 favorites]


...but one which appears with surprising frequency in the writings of lady chickens (also known as the hen poem)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:37 PM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


The War We Aren't Debating - One guess, no prizes.

With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn’t rate in presidential debate
posted by homunculus at 11:56 PM on October 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


O'Keeffe's at it again.

He's got the son/campaign manager (who has already resigned) of a Dem congressman talking to his 'reporter' about committing voter fraud.
posted by TwoWordReview at 12:01 AM on October 25, 2012


If you're in Democrat mode, your idea of getting out in front of a bogus scandal is to fall on your sword ASAP.
posted by fleacircus at 12:43 AM on October 25, 2012


The Guardian's New York office asks for Trump's passport details and college records. Hilarity ensues.
posted by the cydonian at 12:46 AM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


From homunculus' link:Romney said: "America has not dictated to other nations. We have freed other nations from dictators."

This is an ahistorical absurdity.... It is so far beyond the historical facts as to be a disqualifying moment for any American political candidate. If you don't believe me, I'm sure we can find enough elderly Guatemalans, Chileans, Nicaraguans, Filipinos, Iraqis, and, yes, Iranians to establish a quorum and vote on the proposition. The problem, of course, is that no American president, and certainly not this one, can make the obvious counter-argument — that America, for a multitude of reasons, has dictated to countries, enabled its client tyrants to do so, and facilitated the overthrow of other tyrants, most of whom were people with whom we had not done business.
(emphasis mine) ...The reason no president can do so is the creed of American Exceptionalism, which requires every president to pay homage to the unalloyed good that America has done in the world since its god-kissed founding. Therefore, we keep making the same mistakes, over and over again. How do you suppose the average Uzbek feels about us coddling Islam Karimov, who's been known to toss his political opponents into a pot and boil them, because we need his airports and air space? But realpolitik is tangible and quantfiable. Exceptionalism is a belief, immune to facts. It has been argued that Exceptionalism is aspirational, that it is an ideal that we struggle toward, but that is not the way it is sold to us in our politics. In our politics Exceptionalism is complete. It is total. It is one, holy, catholic, and, occasionally, apostolic. Right now, Islam Karimov is one of its apostles in west Asia.
posted by bardophile at 12:55 AM on October 25, 2012 [8 favorites]


I think the Guardian missed the opportunity to ask the right question.

"If Mr. Trump is so concerned about transparency from our presidential candidates, why hasn't he also offered a bounty on Mitt Romney's tax returns?"
posted by billyfleetwood at 2:07 AM on October 25, 2012 [9 favorites]


Talking about transparency, I think Mr Trump's nose is out of joint because he conspicuously doesn't have the hair for the top job. There's not been a bald president since Eisenhower.
posted by de at 2:15 AM on October 25, 2012


Key and Peele just did an AMA on reddit.
posted by futz at 2:31 AM on October 25, 2012


McCain's withdrawn his endorsement of Mourdock.
So Romney gets another bad day out of this, at a point when he really doesn't have a lot of days left to fool around with - because one Republican can't keep his mouth shut and another one can't help but grab the attention. Where is their message discipline?

More to the point, notice any Democrats doing dumb stuff like this at the moment? Nope. It's like this upside-down world where the Dems are united and the Republicans are flailing.
posted by Ripper Minnieton at 2:32 AM on October 25, 2012


Having now seen Trump's attempt at an October surprise, I take back the curse I laid on him earlier. I can think of no greater punishment for him than just having to live life as Donald Trump.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:39 AM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


The Obama offices were devoted almost entirely to the president's reelection; the Republican offices were devoted almost entirely to local candidates, with little presence for Romney.

Still reading this article about Obama's ground game. This line really grabbed my attention. What does this mean for Democratic candidates in down-ticket races?
posted by bardophile at 2:49 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]




Take your mind off your election:
Australia hostage to the politics of the US in the Asian Century
posted by de at 3:55 AM on October 25, 2012


The 2012 Republican Ticket Is The Perfect Distillation Of This Sociopathic Phenomenon
In this column, I draw the unavoidable—and quite depressing—conclusion that the emergence of sociopathic attitudes is no longer confined to the lunatic fringe. While most Americans—Republicans, Democrats, and independents—remain healthy, well-socialized human beings, a group of people whom—we must now admit—can accurately be described as sociopaths has taken over the modern Republican Party, enforcing a new orthodoxy that is just as cold-blooded as what we saw in the responses the Times received to the story of Kristof’s now-deceased friend.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:02 AM on October 25, 2012 [21 favorites]


Wow, that is a terrific read, the man of twists and turns, and I am bookmarking it to send it to some of my relatives. It distills a lot of what I have been thinking about lately-- that the blatant lying and the casual misogyny and the disregard of the poor have become core tenets of the Republican Party. It is ridiculous for anyone to continue to claim that the Dems and the Repubs are essentially the same.
One of the top Republicans in Congress considers it an absolute priority to reduce funding for nutrition programs for children. That is simply shocking, but, sadly, it is no longer surprising.

This lack of conscience—so aptly captured in my Verdict co-columnist John Dean’s book Conservatives Without Conscience—extends to Republican leaders’ desire to eliminate or radically reduce anti-poverty programs (demonizing food stamps, for example, with racially-coded language), and even to their refusal to understand that the middle-class support program known as unemployment insurance is necessary during extended economic downturns.

The rationalizations the Republicans offer have become ever more extreme, of course, as the degree of anti-social behavior has become ever more difficult to justify. The bottom line, however, is that we now find ourselves in a situation where one of our two major parties openly advances policies that are designed to make life more difficult for those people who are not currently well off.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:23 AM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]


> "The bottom line, however, is that we now find ourselves in a situation where one of our two major parties openly advances policies that are designed to make life more difficult for those people who are not currently well off."

I'd add: rather than co-operatively negotiate interdependencies with independent states to meet everyone's needs.

Am I the only one who sees a fine line between United States of Capitalism and a People's Republic? What's it come down to? An election processes?

Perilous extremes, as bad as one another.
posted by de at 5:43 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Perilous extremes, as bad as one another.

This is exactly the point I've been trying to get across to my more moderate Republican friends. Objectivism, for instance, seems to me to be an extremist utopian version of capitalism. I've been pushing the point that all extremist utopian philosophies are dangerous, no matter what the foundation. I hope I'm getting through to some.
posted by syzygy at 5:49 AM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


There is a tiny slice of me that hopes Obama wins this, but wins it without Ohio or FL. There is a perfectly viable path for that to happen too. Winning VA (and he is up between 2 and 5 in VA) would make a Romney win very very difficult even IF R won both OH and FL.

Been hearing about the O ground game in IA and I gotta think there is no way R is winning IA this cycle. The IA Democrats are hitting it all cylinders to get the vote out. Not only is their early voting, but there is such a thing as mobile voting, which is too fucking cool, whereby you can petition to have a temporary mobile voting station set up in particular location, so as to reach segments of the population that have a harder time getting to the polls. For instance, the Dems are targeting Latino heavy districts (Latinos make up about 5% of IA's population) for mobile voting.

I hadn't heard of mobile voting before, but I really like the idea and wish it was wider adopted. That should totally be the counter to voter ID.
posted by edgeways at 6:01 AM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]


Still reading this article about Obama's ground game. This line really grabbed my attention. What does this mean for Democratic candidates in down-ticket races?

Probably not a whole lot on either side. Lots of people who turn up to vote for Obama will still vote for Democratic candidates lower down, especially in states that give a direct straight-ticket option.

And, on the other side, Republicans who show up because of a mobilization drive for the House or whatever are probably going to vote for President too -- but that mobilization effort is probably substantially harder than convincing people to vote in the presidential race.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:06 AM on October 25, 2012


Trump's offer to Obama meant to cover up for the fact that he was fired as management of Trump Place? Oh, schadenfreude.
posted by Andrhia at 6:20 AM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]


The Guardian's New York office asks for Trump's passport details and college records.

Hilarity ensues.


Would that be the unlikely love-child of Hillary Clinton and Sean Hannity?
 
posted by Herodios at 6:26 AM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]


Looking at GOP blogs and news sites, there is now a deliberate and accelerating strategy to paint Obama as "already lost", and a Romney victory inevitable, in a push to demoralize Democratic voters and suppress their turnout.
This, of course, despite all evidence to the contrary. Still, a good strategy, those buggers.
posted by Theta States at 6:31 AM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


It distills a lot of what I have been thinking about lately-- that the blatant lying and the casual misogyny and the disregard of the poor have become core tenets of the Republican Party. It is ridiculous for anyone to continue to claim that the Dems and the Repubs are essentially the same.

I think there's another aspect you in the US might not be immediately appreciate. Been trying to make this point one way or the other for a few months, but the manner in which the Repubs seem to be operating with zero consequences is _extremely_ reminiscent of how single-party democracies and cults work. The Communists in West Bengal in India, low-level PAP folk in Singapore, small time United Russia satraps in Russia, Sathya Sai leaders in the Sai Baba cult.... they all have this massive *machine* to help them refine and "correct" their message if they make a misstatement, while the opposition gets screwed over and over when they make one political mistake. The relative gains from debate #1 and #2 for Romney and Obama respectively seem to buttress this hypothesis.

Hilarity ensues.

Would that be the unlikely love-child of Hilary Clinton and Sean Hannity?


:)
posted by the cydonian at 6:33 AM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


I think the Smirky Right is a response to the Educated Left

It started with the catchphrase "how's that hopey-changey stuff working for ya?"
posted by Theta States at 6:58 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Theta States: "Looking at GOP blogs and news sites, there is now a deliberate and accelerating strategy to paint Obama as "already lost", and a Romney victory inevitable, in a push to demoralize Democratic voters and suppress their turnout."

Romney's Electoral Strategy Is His Economic Strategy: Clap Louder!
This idea that confidence equals winning! ... what does it remind me of? Oh, yes: Romney's notion of how his election would affect the economy, as he described it in the hidden-camera Boca Raton video:
If it looks like I’m going to win, the markets will be happy. If it looks like the president's going to win, the markets should not be terribly happy. It depends of course which markets you're talking about, which types of commodities and so forth, but my own view is that if we win on November 6th, there will be a great deal of optimism about the future of this country. We'll see capital come back and we'll see -- without actually doing anything -- we'll actually get a boost in the economy.
The confidence fairy will save the election for Romney! And then the confidence fairy will magically revive the economy!

And then what? The confidence fairy will dismantle Al Qaeda and destroy Iran's nuclear program and magically make the debt go away? Without Romney actually doing anything?
posted by tonycpsu at 7:00 AM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]


Colin Powell endorses Barack Obama for president
Former Secretary of State Colin Powell broke with the Republican party during the 2008 election, to endorse then-candidate Barack Obama for president, calling Obama a "transformational figure."

With 12 days to go before the presidential election, Powell publicly endorsed President Obama for re-election on "CBS This Morning" Thursday.

"I voted for him in 2008 and I plan to stick with him in 2012 and I'll be voting for he and for Vice President Joe Biden next month."

Powell explained his choice to Charlie Rose and Norah O'Donnell:
When he took over, the country was in very very difficult straits. We were in the one of the worst recessions we had seen in recent times, close to a depression. The fiscal system was collapsing. Wall Street was in chaos, we had 800,000 jobs lost in that first month of the Obama administration and unemployment peaked a few months later at 10 percent. So we were in real trouble. The auto industry was collapsing, the housing was start[ing] to collapse and we were in very difficult straits. And I saw over the next several years, stabilization come back in the financial community, housing is now starting to pick up after four years, it's starting to pick up. Consumer confidence is rising."
And, despite his endorsement of a Democratic candidate in two presidential elections, Powell says he remains a Republican. "I think I'm a Republican of a more moderate mold," he said before adding, "That's something of a dying breed I'm sorry to say."
posted by cashman at 7:00 AM on October 25, 2012 [13 favorites]




Looking at GOP blogs and news sites, there is now a deliberate and accelerating strategy to paint Obama as "already lost", and a Romney victory inevitable, in a push to demoralize Democratic voters and suppress their turnout.
This, of course, despite all evidence to the contrary. Still, a good strategy, those buggers.


Maybe. I think it's quite a risky strategy, actually. If reality suggests a reasonable Obama advantage and right-wing propaganda a whitewash by Romney I think there's a real possibility of the mainstream media choosing its favoured fiction, the notion that the truth lies between any two opposed positions. The idea of a fiercely close election seems to be the mainstream narrative right now, and I tend to think right wing insistence on victory is likely to encourage it to persist. The notion of a close election seems likely to favour the better organised Obama campaign.
posted by howfar at 7:19 AM on October 25, 2012


PPP has O up 5 and over 50 in Virginia, post-debate. Booyah.
posted by spitbull at 7:20 AM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]


If the GOP is assuring everybody that Romney is winning, I would not want to be in a Red State the day after the election. Accusations that Obama stole the election would be the least of it. Also, I'd totally be taunting the sad Romney supporters because I can be a Giant Asshole.
posted by angrycat at 7:43 AM on October 25, 2012 [11 favorites]


The "Romney is Winning" narrative is a preparation for the post-election "The election was stolen by the Chicago thugs/Black Panthers/Ghost of Acorn/etc" narrative. Because obviously if Romney was winning but Obama ends up with more votes than the election must have been stolen and thus Obama is illegitimate and has no mandate.
posted by octothorpe at 7:46 AM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


tempting though it may be to entertain such notions, angrycat, please please PLEASE do so only after you have a) voted and b) phone-banked/canvassed/gotv'd/volunteered. Take NOTHING for granted.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 7:48 AM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


I would not want to be in a Red State the day after the election. Accusations that Obama stole the election would be the least of it.

I was going to respond but octothorpe beat me to it.

So, instead, here's how to make a great vodka martini! I tried it last night and it was pretty spiffy.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:59 AM on October 25, 2012


I've come to the conclusion that the theme to this election should have been "Under Pressure".
posted by Talez at 8:04 AM on October 25, 2012


I'm kind of expecting the least civil and gracious concession speech ever from Mitt Romney.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:08 AM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]


If the election continues on it's current trajectory then I think Obama will probably get 290-300 in terms of the EV and be safely re-elected. The polling seems to be shifting back away from Romney although not by a significant margin in the National tracking polls and the bulwark in places like Ohio seems to be pretty solid with Obama holding commanding leads in terms of early voting.

The OFA GOTV machine is ridiculously powerful and seems to be largely ignored in the current narratives about disillusioned Obama supporters. Basically if Obama can generate anywhere close to the turnout that he did in 2008 there really is no hope for Romney on November 6th.

Looking back over the last year and it seems like Romney continually stumbled in regards to running his campaign. He's been slow in going to a OFA GOTV strategy and even his media strategy seems really focused on a limited number of players that almost seem focused more on spending ridiculous sums of money rather than focusing the message on specific media consumers.
posted by vuron at 8:11 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


here's how to make a great vodka martini!

That's a recipe for a vodka cocktail of some sort, I will agree. But a martini is always made with gin and vermouth.
posted by hippybear at 8:12 AM on October 25, 2012 [10 favorites]


The Romney is winning/ Obama stole the election is totally groundwork for the Republican party continuing on their obstructionist strategy the next 4 years. I expect major hostage taking from McConnell and Boehner over sequestration even though I think their positions in the House and Senate won't be as rosy as they would like.
posted by vuron at 8:14 AM on October 25, 2012


I'm kind of expecting the least civil and gracious concession speech ever from Mitt Romney.

I guess odinsdream has a point, but beyond that sort of morbid fascination... who cares? It's not as if Mitt retained even a modicum of respect during the debates. He let his freak flag fly in his own little prep school way. That cat is out of the bag. I'm sure he'll have a concession speech and I'm sure 95% of it'll be nothing that out of the ordinary and the other 5% will be pandery to his constituents. Perhaps it will be the least gracious ever but I honestly think it won't be much below the bar of what we're accustomed to.

That's a recipe for a vodka cocktail of some sort

See if I ever help you people out again...

posted by RolandOfEld at 8:15 AM on October 25, 2012


I'm glad to see Obama giving Trump the response he deserves on Leno. (at about 1:14)
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:16 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


The Romney is winning/ Obama stole the election is totally groundwork for the Republican party continuing on their obstructionist strategy the next 4 years.

It'll be interesting if we end up with an electoral/popular split. On the plus side, ammunition for the NPVIC... on the minus side, an excuse for more scorched-earth obstructionism in Congress.

Don't know which side to root for, frankly, given that they'll find other excuses to be obstructionist if not that particular one.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:18 AM on October 25, 2012


Another video of the Trump response on Leno (second video) in case hulu link is not working for some.
posted by mikepop at 8:19 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


So, instead, here's how to make a great vodka martini!

I'm not a big fan of fussy cocktail recipes, but I find it sort of ironic that this one is headed with this bit of doesn't-understand-classical-music:
"Oh, I love Bach's Fourth Brandenburg Concerto, but perhaps it should be just a touch slower."
Yes, that is an option that a conductor has. To play with the tempo of a piece.
posted by muddgirl at 8:20 AM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


For those of us without video access, can you transcribe the Leno bit please?
posted by Theta States at 8:21 AM on October 25, 2012


Wow, Obama nails it with self depreciating zinger.

Leno: "What's this thing with Trump and you? It's like me and Letterman..."

Obama: "This all dates to when we were growing up together in Kenya..."

*ba dum ching* (literally, from the band)

Obama: "We had constant run ins on the soccer field and he resented it..."

Applause.

Obama: "When we finally moved to America I thought it'd be over."
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:23 AM on October 25, 2012 [15 favorites]


I don't care what Romney says in his concession speech, just so long as he has to give one.
posted by drezdn at 8:23 AM on October 25, 2012 [22 favorites]


Robert Reich: Mitt Romney's Question-Mark Economy
As we close in on Election Day, the questions about what Mitt Romney would do if elected grow even larger. Rarely before in American history has a candidate for president campaigned on such a blank slate.

Yet, paradoxically, not a day goes by that we don't hear Romney, or some other exponent of the GOP, claim that businesses aren't creating more jobs because they're uncertain about the future. And the source of that uncertainty, they say, is President Obama -- especially his Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) and the Dodd-Frank Act, and uncertainties surrounding Obama's plan to raise taxes on the wealthy.

In fact, Romney has created far more uncertainty. He offers a virtual question mark of an economy.

For example, Romney says if elected he'll repeal Obamacare and replace it with something else. He promises he'll provide health coverage to people with preexisting medical problems but he doesn't give a hint how he'd manage it.

Insurance companies won't pay the higher costs of insuring these people unless they have extra funds -- which is why Obamacare requires that everyone, including healthy young people, buy insurance. Yet Romney doesn't say where the extra money to fund insurers would come from. From taxpayers? Businesses?

Talk about uncertainty.
posted by Rhaomi at 8:26 AM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]




The Votemaster (Andrew S. Tanenbaum) explains the beef with Rasmussen polling numbers: Rasmussen Has a Two-Point Republican Bias Compared to Other Pollsters
Enough presidential polling data is now available to analyze Rasmussen's data. . . . The database contains 119 Rasmussen state polls from Jan. 1, 2012 until yesterday. . . .

For each poll, the Obama - Romney score was computed. The arithmetic mean of the other polls' scores was then subtracted from the Rasmussen Obama - Romney value. Ideally, the result should be zero, but statistically that is very unlikely. A positive result means Rasmussen is overestimating Obama's standing and a negative one means he is underestimating it. . . .

Averaging all 82 polls, Rasmussen's mean bias is -1.91 points, that is, Rasmussen appears to be making Obama look almost 2 points worse than the other pollsters.

Here are the results in .csv file.
posted by Herodios at 8:29 AM on October 25, 2012


Accurate
posted by The Whelk at 8:29 AM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]




Obama's response to the voter ID question from Leno was pitch perfect, don't focus on any given Voter ID law but stress the essential fairness and strength of expanding voter enfranchisement and really really stress the advantages of early voting so that you can vote on your convenience instead of during work hours on a Tuesday.

Yeah by sheer coincidence it's probably going to help Obama with core constituents in battleground states but it's also fundamentally a good thing.

Of course it doesn't hurt that Leno throws even softer pitches than Larry King in terms of interview questions so Obama can seem really really calm and relaxed as well as Presidential. Getting the big laugh line about Trump was just bonus.
posted by vuron at 8:32 AM on October 25, 2012




Sorry, omitted this line explaining the disparity between 119 data points and 82 data points:
For 82 polls, comparison polls within a week were found. For the other 37 Rasmussen polls, no other nonpartisan pollster surveyed the state within a week of Rasmussen's poll, so those polls were not used in this analysis.
posted by Herodios at 8:33 AM on October 25, 2012


Romney rejected new birth certificates for gay parents -- "As governor, he ordered review for each child."
posted by ericb at 8:36 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


“Some gays are actually having children born to them,’’ he declared. “It’s not right on paper. It’s not right in fact. Every child has a right to a mother and father.’’

.............
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:38 AM on October 25, 2012




Mitt inability to quickly come to a campaign policy position (even if it's the wrong one) is a real sign of weakness for that campaign. You can practically see the strategists pulling the strings on Romney "If I denounce Mourdock I risk angering the base and reducing GOTV, not to mention we might lose a Senate seat" vs "If I fail to denounce Mourdock then my recent gains among women are going to go down the tubes".

So he's stuck in this weird calculation where he's trying to distance without denouncing hoping that the news cycle will quickly pass. He's done this several times in the campaign and rather than looking decisive or even deliberative, he just looks hopelessly wishy-washy like he doesn't ever truly believe anything he's saying it's just a database of preprogrammed focus group tested campaign lines.
posted by vuron at 8:39 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt Romney's Question-Mark Economy

Needs illustration of Romney as The Riddler
posted by mikepop at 8:45 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obama says kids know Romney is dishonest
"We arrived at the Oval Office for our 45-minute interview … on the morning of October 11th. … As we left the Oval Office, executive editor Eric Bates told Obama that he had asked his six-year-old if there was anything she wanted him to say to the president. … [S]he said, ‘Tell him: You can do it.’ Obama grinned. … ‘You know, kids have good instincts,’ Obama offered. ‘They look at the other guy and say, “Well, that’s a bullsh---er, I can tell.”’”
posted by ericb at 8:50 AM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]


Former N.J. Governor Chistine Todd Whitman
Mourdock's comments damage all Republicans and especially Romney as the fight for the woman's vote intensifies. This could be a defining moment for Romney and he should immediately denounce both Mourdock and the comment.
posted by ericb at 8:53 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


> Yet Romney doesn't say where the extra money to fund insurers would come from. From taxpayers? Businesses?

Talk about uncertainty.



Try foreign investment. The United States of Vulture Capitalism.
(The eagle may have to go.)

I was listening to Romney complaining about some Chinese company exporting certain goods into America under the pretence they were American made. Romney's going to tighten up on China's market deceptions day one.

Arnotts Biscuits was an iconic family owned Australian company until the late 90s when it was purchased outright by Campbells (USA). Australians got all up in arms, and stopped buying Arnotts, vowing and declaring to never buy Arnotts again. (Boy, were we angry.)

Anyway, memories are short, people need to work, but if you look at the Arnotts website today you'll be hard pressed to find any indication of the American ownership, unless you happen to know Campbells is US.

Australians are educated to buy local products (where possible), it's good for the economy; but it's almost impossible to know what Made in Australia means these days. "Profits don't remain in Australia" would be more accurate branding. Australia needs to get more stern on deceptive free-market promotional cheating, too. Day one, Romney.

IIRC Australia has already specifically regulated against American ownership of Australian residential aged care facilities. (There must have been some approach.) I should check that regulation as fact before making mention, but these facilities are funded by government contributions (per person), plus holding access to seniors' nest eggs for investment purposes for the duration of their residential care. Very lucrative. (There's a government guarantee on seniors' dollars, but a reluctance to risk their savings overseas, perhaps.)

Yet on the other hand, China and Australia are dealing closely in accommodating the future growth of the respective aged care industries. China and Australia do a lot of information sharing, and maybe that's the difference. (The US tends to slap a patent on the morning's first thought, then demands secrecy or royalties.)

Sure hope Romney doesn't win. Just the thought of protesting his every harvesting overture Australia's way exhausts me. "No! Go 'way! And here ... take your naval vessel with you."

Obama's your best bet for recovery.
(For instance: only 9% of Australians approve of Romney.)
posted by de at 9:07 AM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Reading some of the linked articles -- at Politico and Justia -- what's immediately striking is that none of the right-wing commentators (and there are many!) offer any sort of defense of Romney or Ryan. Ever.

All that they do (these engines of the economy, who are somehow contributing to society by spending their workdays posting angry comments to Facebook) is hate Obama.

Even the most inarticulate Obama supporter can generally churn out an accomplishment or two -- steered the country through a terrible recession, marginally improved healthcare, got us out of Iraq -- or speak to a policy or plan they support. Failing that, even, there are ideologies that Romney is advancing that they can specifically cite as reasons to vote the other way.

From the right wing? There's no argument for Romney. There's no concrete reasons to vote for him. There aren't even specific reasons to vote against Obama, except for a vague notion that "Obamacare is bad!" and the word "socialist" being used by people who have apparently lost the pages between "snow" and "speakerphone" in their dictionary.

There's just a hollow screaming void filled with inarticulate rage at the current President, because he is bad and their guy is good.

It's -- fuck it, it's scary. Nobody has a good reason to support Romney. They've just been told to hate Obama and they hate him so much that they'd vote for a half-eaten jar of peanut butter if you put a red lid on it. It's mental, and it gets more mental every goddamn day.
posted by Shepherd at 9:09 AM on October 25, 2012 [23 favorites]


As a life long Chicagoan, I am personally disgusted by Romney/Ryan's use of the term "Chicago-style politics". Yes, we joke about voting early and often, but it's like a family thing. It's OK when people in a family disparage something within a family, but woe if an outsider crosses that line.

And I also don't believe it's true. Yes Cook County has its nuances, but how is the Chicago Machine controlling voting machines in Ohio? It's sloppy thinking besides being insulting.
posted by readery at 9:21 AM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]




Ohio's Nightmare Scenario
Under Secretary of State Jon Husted’s initiative to send absentee ballot applications to nearly 7 million registered voters across Ohio, more than 800,000 people so far have asked for but not yet completed an absentee ballot for the Nov. 6 election.

Anyone who does not return an absentee ballot, deciding instead to vote at the polls, will be required to cast a provisional ballot.

That’s so officials may verify that they did not vote absentee and also show up at the polls.

By state law, provisional ballots may not be counted until at least Nov. 17.

That means if Ohio’s electoral votes would be decisive in the race between President Barack Obama and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, the state could keep the nation in suspense for several weeks after the election.

“That would be called my nightmare scenario,” said Amy Searcy, director of the Hamilton County Board of Elections.
Husted is the same guy who was trying to cancel early voting for just democratic counties, then tried to cancel early voting days in Ohio altogether, stop provisional ballots from counting, and who has restricted the methods with which voters can be contacted when their absentee ballots have problems.
posted by cashman at 9:54 AM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]


"man in the house" rule...Once the single-mom paradigm was established, fundamental changes in the culture of the poor had come about.

Is there evidence that the rule is connected to the growth of single parenthood? Rates are pretty much the same in the US and the UK (~25% of children), and there is no historical equivalent of the man in the house rule here.
posted by howfar at 5:10 PM on October 24 [3 favorites +] [!]


You're right, this is often pointed to as contradicting evidence. There are alternative explanations for the UK figures, including a lagging in the rates and the phenomenon of cultural spread between the two countries.

I couldn't find any rigorous research done on this topic in a quick online search. I would be interested in reading more if anyone knows of such research.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:56 AM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Anyone who does not return an absentee ballot, deciding instead to vote at the polls, will be required to cast a provisional ballot.

That’s so officials may verify that they did not vote absentee and also show up at the polls.

By state law, provisional ballots may not be counted until at least Nov. 17.


I tried to emphasize the ineffectiveness of provisional ballots earlier, but crickets...

In Virginia (and, presumably elsewhere), if the voter brings their unvoted absentee ballot to the poll, the pollworkers can physically cancel the absentee ballot and allow the person to vote regularly. Otherwise, provisional vote.

If you are in this situation, take your absentee ballot with you to the polls.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 10:04 AM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


I really hope that part of Obama's GOTV efforts in Ohio is a public awareness campaign on that uncast absentee ballot thing, that really needs to be widely known.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:07 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]




Damn, I really like Jon Huntsman, and I am as liberal as they come.

As Rachel Maddow pointed out last night, the real danger in keeping those ads on television is that Indiana has early voting. Between the hours of 8am and 7pm, you can see Romney endorsing Mourdock on your TV and then go vote. 7 days a week.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:15 AM on October 25, 2012






Hahaha Palin trying to be relevant.

What's funny is that if she'd spent the last 4 years actually improving her credentials instead of being a mouthpiece she'd maybe be a serious contender in 2016 because the 2016 crop still looks decidedly meh for Republicans.

As it is she's completely cashing in on her limited celebrity rather than using it to springboard her up the ladder.
posted by vuron at 10:34 AM on October 25, 2012


President Obama enjoys fairly broad support among Alaska Natives. Even though many disagree on some social issues, identification with his minority status and success overrides that. Guarantee it. I talk politics with Eskimos all the time.

Little known fact: it was the Alaska Native vote that put Lisa Murkowski (as a write in!) over the top in her senate election against creepy Tea-fascist Joe Miller in 2010, in a concerted effort that delivered her 10K or so vote margin, the first such win by a write-in over a major party candidate for senate in the modern era. By the time election day rolled around every voting age Native person I know had practiced spelling "Murkowski" dozens of time to make sure they had it right.

This year, good Native American turnout can win us the senate in North Dakota. And may help Obama carry Colorado. And guess which campaign has made a serious multi-year effort to organize in Native America and delivered policy victory after policy victory for Native communities facing issues that had been stalled for years?

Hey ya.
posted by spitbull at 10:39 AM on October 25, 2012 [20 favorites]


Looking at GOP blogs and news sites, there is now a deliberate and accelerating strategy to paint Obama as "already lost", and a Romney victory inevitable, in a push to demoralize Democratic voters and suppress their turnout.

The only problem with this strategy is that GOP blogs and news sites have a nearly-exclusively conservative readership. So they're unlikely to demoralize any Democrats.

With luck, though, they might make conservatives overconfident and reduce their turnout. Once again, the echo chamber has a hidden cost.
posted by msalt at 10:41 AM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


If Republicans really believed their work ethic philosophy, every time Palin showed her face they would sneer and point and chant "Quitter, quitter, quitter!"
posted by Benny Andajetz at 10:42 AM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


"Suck and jive" is not even remotely racist because Piper Palin is part Eskimo.


Didn't we just have a MetaTalk thread requesting that we clearly mark satirical headlines?

Wait...really?
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:46 AM on October 25, 2012




roomthreeseventeen, the picture in that article is exactly what I expected to see when I read the headline.
posted by dfan at 10:53 AM on October 25, 2012


He kinda looks like Pete Campbell.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:57 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's a good thing the GOP decided to destroy Colin Powell's career rather than run him for President. He would have been hard to beat.
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:58 AM on October 25, 2012 [13 favorites]


msalt: " The only problem with this strategy is that GOP blogs and news sites have a nearly-exclusively conservative readership. So they're unlikely to demoralize any Democrats."

I disagree. Of course the wingnutosphere itself is by definition only going to reach wingnuts, but Drudge headlines get picked up by Politico, Politico headlines get picked up by WaPo, ABC, etc., and then suddenly the lie is the truth. The most prominent pushback against this "Romney is winning" meme has come from... Jonathan Chait at The New Republic, maybe? Nate Silver's done some number-crunching takedowns of the meme, but most people aren't reading 538 the way we are.

I'm not saying that "Matt Drudge rules their world" the way he used to, but the general pattern of whatever GOP daddies say becoming the conventional wisdom is alive and well.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:58 AM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


He kinda looks like Pete Campbell.

And if you read that statement in Campbell's voice, it totally works. Ha.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 11:04 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]




Hahaha Palin trying to be relevant.

What's funny is that if she'd spent the last 4 years actually improving her credentials instead of being a mouthpiece she'd maybe be a serious contender in 2016 because the 2016 crop still looks decidedly meh for Republicans.


And there was the fact that Palin quit, er resigned, from her elected position as Governor of Alaska in 2009, vaguely citing probes and family needs. Those reasons were so vague that Time Magazine put together the top 5 real reasons she quit, and even the symathetic Wall Street Journal was confused at her resignation, putting together their own list of ideas.

And in searching for "palin quit," I found that she also quit her 2011 bus tour:
Sarah Palin quit her cross-country bus tour (or PAC-funded family vacation) about one region into the country. Everyone is so used to her quitting things that no one really noticed.
...
Just give it another month, and she’ll come up with some other scheme to briefly convince everyone that she’s running for president again. She feeds on the attention! (And the PAC donations.)
I don't think "shuck and jive" are terms used by native Alaskan people.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:26 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]




most people aren't reading 538 the way we are.

To the contrary, I've seen a lot of mainstream news outlets linking to and using Nate Silver's analysis. It is used on Sunday morning political talk shows, and it is even used almost in a default way (as in they aren't presenting where it's from and then the analysis, they present the analysis as if it is valid, and then source it as an afterthought).
posted by cashman at 11:37 AM on October 25, 2012




One thing I find fascinating about the elections is that while some states embrace a forward-thinking practice like mobile voting (polls), the election day is not a holiday. I always forget that people have to take time off their work to vote, as it seems so bizarre.
posted by ersatz at 11:41 AM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


(The Onion) I Mean, If I Lose To Mitt Romney, I'll Probably Kill Myself.
posted by gaspode at 1:27 PM on October 25 [1 favorite +] [!]


Ouch.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 11:45 AM on October 25, 2012


I'm confident enough to pull out the Chivas Regal 18 so I can longingly look at it until election night.
posted by The Whelk at 11:48 AM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


How Each Presidential Candidate Can Win, by Republican polling firm Public Opinion Strategies.

According to this Romney has to run the table in the swing states. He has to win Indiana, Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio, and Florida, plus one of a bunch of "wild-card" states (many of which Obama has solid leads).

Obama has four routes to win, building on a base of the states Kerry won in 2004:

1) Western Route: Wins Iowa, New Mexico, Nevada, and Colorado
2) Florida Route: Wins Florida
3) Southern Route: Wins North Carolina and Virginia
4) Midwest Route: Wins Ohio and Iowa

According to electoral-vote.com Obama has leads in all of the states for the Western and Midwest routes and Romney has leads in Florida and North Carolina, so the Florida and Southern routes are less likely.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:49 AM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]


I really liked the scenario Ms. Maddow pointed out last night where Mitt Romney becomes president and Joe Biden becomes his vice president. What a disaster our election process is.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:51 AM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


That onion link does provide a ridiculously succinct summary:
I mean, wouldn’t you kill yourself if the U.S. population felt that Mitt Romney—a man who basically wrote off half the American population as entitled victims incapable of taking care of themselves—was a more viable leader than you? Wouldn’t you take your own life if a massive segment of the citizenry basically said, “You know what, you ended the war in Iraq, you passed health care reform, you saved the auto industry, you repealed Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, you had 32 straight months of job creation, and you killed Osama bin Laden, but sorry, I’m going with Romney”?
posted by gaspode at 11:52 AM on October 25, 2012 [8 favorites]


kirkaracha, he has a lot more than four (VA+IA+NM, for instance). The point is, Romney has to compete and win basically everywhere to take it. That's going to be very hard especially with Obama on a current upswing.
posted by gerryblog at 11:56 AM on October 25, 2012


In Virginia (and, presumably elsewhere), if the voter brings their unvoted absentee ballot to the poll, the pollworkers can physically cancel the absentee ballot and allow the person to vote regularly. Otherwise, provisional vote.

If you are in this situation, take your absentee ballot with you to the polls.


...and be prepared for confusion. I live in one of the bluest cities in one of the bluest counties in one of the bluest states and every election it takes a conference of two or three poll workers to figure out that I get a regular old ballot in exchange for the absentee version. Hopefully anyone here that encounters the same problem can chalk it up to poll worker ignorance and not malfeasance.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:01 PM on October 25, 2012


Satire notwithstanding, I don't think the President would need to punish himself for the inability of the American electorate to be interested enough in policy to understand even its most basic implications. it's our failing if the vote doesn't leave Romney's candidacy in the dust, not his.
posted by Miko at 12:10 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]




I find the variant stats at TPM to be SO CURIOUS.
Of the TOSSUPS, the only they currently have leaning Romeny are New Hampshire, NC and AZ. What an odd coalition to see together.
posted by Theta States at 12:12 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


...and be prepared for confusion. I live in one of the bluest cities in one of the bluest counties in one of the bluest states and every election it takes a conference of two or three poll workers to figure out that I get a regular old ballot in exchange for the absentee version. Hopefully anyone here that encounters the same problem can chalk it up to poll worker ignorance and not malfeasance.

Yes. Be patient. The problem is basically procedural; the rollbook already shows that you received a ballot. So that means the worker has to essentially undo that and make you eligible again. Most pollworkers are volunteers, and this situation doesn't happen all that often.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 12:26 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt still has not released his tax returns like other presidential candidates do. Now he's cutting off interviews.
posted by cashman at 12:30 PM on October 25, 2012


Was not expecting this: the somewhat conservative RCP has moved North Carolina in to the tossup column.
posted by Theta States at 12:32 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt still has not released his tax returns like other presidential candidates do. Now he's cutting off interviews.

I think what’s interesting about this is while it certainly mitigates the damage of what Romney can say that might be offensive, it gives President Obama twelve days to do as many interviews as he wants with no response.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:33 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


I hope Obama does at least an interview a day from here on out!
(and offers $5 million to charity for the release of Mitt's tax returns...)
posted by Theta States at 12:35 PM on October 25, 2012


"GOP Rape Advisory Chart to help sort out all of the confusion about the wide variety of rape 'flavors' that today's Republican Party seems so hell-bent on bringing to light."
posted by ericb at 12:36 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]




Mitt still has not released his tax returns like other presidential candidates do.

I absolutely do not understand how republicans can call for any additional release of information from Obama in lieu of this fact. Mind boggles.
posted by inigo2 at 12:49 PM on October 25, 2012


I hope more people do this sort of thing - helping people get to the polls, and vote.
posted by cashman at 12:56 PM on October 25, 2012


I absolutely do not understand how republicans can call for any additional release of information from Obama in lieu of this fact.

Too many people fall into this trap of expecting logic and reason from people to whom these things are utterly alien and unnecessary for their way of thinking.
posted by elizardbits at 12:59 PM on October 25, 2012 [9 favorites]


see also: simple human decency
posted by elizardbits at 1:00 PM on October 25, 2012 [7 favorites]


Talk about more uncertainty:
Mitt Romney has declared North American energy independence by 2020 (effective 23/08/2012). Lots more drilling of oil and gas on federal turf, alongside offshore plays is the general gist – and especially in Alaska – all with a view to stimulating the U.S. economy.
This won't be any boom in the economy if it's going cheaply to the 47%.
May as well leave the earth intact and water uncompromised.
In the long run water's not going to be cheap.

Not to worry:
Why China Will Stop U.S. Energy Independence
posted by de at 1:08 PM on October 25, 2012


What? It's perfectly logical. They aren't supporters of the Republican party, they're members, in the same way that football fan is part of their own team, regardless of where they live or where the players are from.

The loudest Republicans are those most invested in party. When they shout for a birth certificate/transcript/etc. it's a political play, an attempt to bolster their side at the expense of the other. Acknowledging that Romney is hiding his financials would weaken their own side, and traitorous (or viewed as such by fellow partisans).
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 1:14 PM on October 25, 2012


Obama's Blunder Was In Ceding The Political Center To Romney

Obama As Commander-In-Chief, Romney As Banal Bully

President Romney Can Thank Obama for His Permanent Robotic Death List

The Problem With The New American Expectionalism
Which brings us to the two moments in question. The first came in the debate on Monday night, and it came when Willard Romney was floundering around trying to justify his long-expressed untruth that the president engaged in an "apology tour" upon first taking office in 2009. Romney said: "America has not dictated to other nations. We have freed other nations from dictators."
This is an ahistorical absurdity to rival what Gerald Ford once said about the nations of the Soviet bloc, let alone anything Dan Quayle or Sarah Palin ever has said. It is so far beyond the historical facts as to be a disqualifying moment for any American political candidate. If you don't believe me, I'm sure we can find enough elderly Guatemalans, Chileans, Nicaraguans, Filipinos, Iraqis, and, yes, Iranians to establish a quorum and vote on the proposition.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:28 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


Regarding oil production, this just out two days ago ...

U.S. could surpass Saudi oil output by 2020
U.S. oil output is surging so fast that the United States could soon overtake Saudi Arabia as the world's biggest producer.

Driven by high prices and new drilling methods, U.S. production of crude and other liquid hydrocarbons is on track to rise 7% this year to an average of 10.9 million barrels per day. This will be the fourth straight year of crude increases and the biggest single-year gain since 1951.

The boom has surprised even the experts.

"Five years ago, if I or anyone had predicted today's production growth, people would have thought we were crazy," says Jim Burkhard, head of oil markets research at IHS CERA, an energy consulting firm.

The Energy Department forecasts that U.S. production of crude and other liquid hydrocarbons, which includes biofuels, will average 11.4 million barrels per day next year. That would be a record for the U.S. and just below Saudi Arabia's output of 11.6 million barrels. Citibank forecasts U.S. production could reach 13 million to 15 million barrels per day by 2020, helping to make North America "the new Middle East."
posted by ericb at 1:37 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


... helping to make North America "the new Middle East."

Repeated for truth.
posted by de at 1:43 PM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]


Mitt Romney has declared North American energy independence by 2020

Why is it "North American energy independence" and not "American energy independence"? Does he realize he wouldn't be president of Canada and Mexico, or does he plan to invade them? How can he proclaim American exceptionalism and plan on being dependent on our neighbors?
posted by kirkaracha at 1:43 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


After the "iran's path to the sea" debacle, I must also wonder if he realizes that Canada and Mexico are part of North America.
posted by elizardbits at 1:46 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


The false equivalence on display here is astounding. This is what I meant upthread when I said the mainstream press has internalized the right wing propaganda.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:46 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Richard Mourdock Backed By GOP Leaders Mitch McConnell, John McCain After Rape Remarks [UPDATE].

So, McCain has rescinded his position to condemn Mourdock and McConnell has cancelled his original position seeking to be an arm's length away from the despicable comments.

Flip--floppers.
posted by ericb at 1:48 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Why is it "North American energy independence" and not "American energy independence"? Does he realize he wouldn't be president of Canada and Mexico

Canada and Mexico are sitting on a lot of 'our' oil.
 
posted by Herodios at 1:49 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]



The Romney campaign has quietly decided Mitt will no do no more interviews before election day.

That just does not make political sense unless they are terribly insecure of Romney's ability to not screw up big time. Cripes Obama was on, Letterman, Leno, the Daily Show within, what the last week? And Romney's response is to go to media blackout? I think we are seeing a return to September level "competency" from the Romney camp. It's that slow learning curve again, it took Romney 6 weeks (post convention, plus however long you could reasonably say the pre-convention was really a non primary battle) to learn how to campaign in a General Election as opposed to a primary, and he had some significant gains when he at least was able to fake it... Now we are in the closing campaign and that is a different game and they respond by... "No more interviews!". Fucking amateur hour.

I mean it bodes well for "our" side, but on the other hand you really have to wonder at the campaign intelligence he has surrounded himself with.
That being said, an Obama win in this economy is going to be a (another) feather in Axelrod's cap. the man will never have to look for work again.
posted by edgeways at 1:50 PM on October 25, 2012


"If I have to listen to one more grey-faced man with a $2 haircut explain to me what rape is, I’m going to lose my mind.” — Tina Fey speaking yesterday at the Center for Reproductive Rights Inaugural Gala.
posted by cashman at 1:50 PM on October 25, 2012 [17 favorites]


Man, I totally stood up for John McCain this morning on Facebook. MAN.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:52 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, and three is a lot I like about TPM, but I've been pretty dissatisfied with their Map feature. It still counts TN as "leans" Romney, and had PA as "tossup" for quite awhile until today.
posted by edgeways at 1:52 PM on October 25, 2012


useful gif
posted by elizardbits at 1:53 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


I mean it bodes well for "our" side

I am not so sure. If we have journalists who would hound a would-be president (in less than 2 weeks!) for comment on the issues of the day and run stories highlighting how cowardly Mitt's move is, and detailing how weak this is, then we'd have something. As it is, The right will criticize the president, and republicans will comment on the issues of the day without any responsibility for their comments because 'they aren't the candidate'. Man I hope I'm wrong.
posted by cashman at 1:55 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Cripes Obama was on, Letterman, Leno, the Daily Show within, what the last week?

And, Obama is interviewed by Brian Williams on 'Rock Center' tonight (10:00 p.m. Eastern).
posted by ericb at 1:55 PM on October 25, 2012


Oh John:
“General Powell, you disappoint us and you have harmed your legacy even further by defending what is clearly the most feckless foreign policy in my lifetime,
-John McCain
Has the Alzheimer really set in? 4 Years is not that long ago.
posted by edgeways at 2:00 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's Halloween time, so here's some scariness: Imagining Mitt Romney dealing with the fiscal cliff and Syria.

Mitt Romney spent the past year blaming me for setting a withdrawal date for our troops to leave Afghanistan, but then in our last debate he not only set a withdrawal date himself, but picked one that was identical to mine—2014. Nobody seems to give a fuck about that. And that must mean nobody really gives a fuck about me. It’s like I’m living in the goddamn Twilight Zone and nothing I’ve done matters at all. Look, a world in which people believe Mitt Romney is a better communicator than me is a world I don’t want to live in. So that’s why I’ll either hang myself in the Lincoln Bedroom or slit my wrists right there in the middle of the Oval Office. I haven’t decided which yet.

Oh Onion writers, I salute you.
posted by angrycat at 2:04 PM on October 25, 2012


Obama used the word "bullshitter" to describe Mitt Romney in a forthcoming Rolling Stone piece. Of course Obama's people are backing away from the naughty word, but at least he expressed the sentiment so many of us have been feeling.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:05 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


I don't quite understand McCain being such a water carrier for the Romney camp. He's not up for re-election until 2016 and it seems like he's probably going to retire at some point so the concern of being primaried from the Right seems pretty low. He's completely nonviable as a national candidate so unless he wants to be Secretary of Defense or something there really isn't much for him to gain either.

He likes to sabre rattle against Iran but let's be honest even Romney would have a hard time selling an attack on Iran to congress at this point.

He's never been as much of a maverick as he pretended to be but he also hasn't been this tone deaf in the past either.

Needless to say I'm looking forward to Latinos voting in greater numbers and finally shifting Arizona away from the ultra-conservative policies favored by elderly white voters in Phoenix-Scottsdale.
posted by vuron at 2:09 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


When I saw the "shuck and jive" comment I thought, "oh hell no!"

From Wikipedia:

The origins of the phrase may be traced to when "black slaves sang and shouted gleefully during corn-shucking season, and this behavior, along with lying and teasing, became a part of the protective and evasive behavior normally adopted toward white people". [4]

The use of the phrase in modern American politics has generated controversy at times. In 2008, then New York attorney general Andrew Cuomo said of then-Presidential candidate Barack Obama (who was running against the candidate Cuomo supported): "You can't shuck and jive at a press conference." Cuomo received criticism for his use of the phrase, with Roland Martin of CNN stating that "“Shucking and jiving” have long been words used as a negative assessment of African Americans, along the lines of a “foot shufflin’ Negro.”" [5] In 2012, former Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin also generated controversy when she stated "President Obama's shuck and jive shtick with these Benghazi lies must end". [6]

posted by futz at 2:12 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


I don't quite understand McCain being such a water carrier for the Romney camp.

He holds a grudge, especially against a young black guy who ruined the coronation he'd been aiming for forever and finally had in his grasp.
posted by sallybrown at 2:13 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


I confess that I have, in the past, confused the phrase "shuck and jive" with the boxing terminology "stick and move," to considerable humiliation.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:14 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


I 100%, completely do not get the defense that is being put up by the people who are standing with Mourdock...

"He's obviously trying to clarify it as best as he can. ... It was pretty clumsy stuff.

Sir, 'clumsy stuff' does not begin to describe what your pal over there said. The absolutely, most generous, kindest reading I can see of his comments here,

"I came to realize life is that gift from God. I think that even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."

is that an unwanted pregnancy, born from a forceful act of intercourse that the woman should be held in no way responsible for, should be preserved and considered "a gift from God" or "God's intent". Taking that as it seems, it hearkens back to what you would tell a child, or perhaps yourself, when someone dies abruptly. That is to say that it is "God's Will". Or when someone you love gets cancer or some other terrible disease and is fighting for their lives: God's Will.

I can, to a certain point, see some merit in giving said speech to a child, it's a tough situation to be sure. It might help them cope with a world full of uncertainties when times are tough. However, what I don't see happening is people who are diagnosed with cancer, or even a common sinus infection, eschewing treatment because "God's Will" is acting upon their lives. Would you condemn someone for doing such a thing because it would be flying in the face of the will of the Almighty?

However, you are basically saying that we should do just that with regards to a rape that leads to a pregnancy because... you guessed it! God's Will.

I used to have faith in a sort of benevolent being(s) a level or two above and beyond ourselves. If indeed that being exists, and its will does include said acts like rape and kids born without legs and dogs being mistreated by their owners and on and on and on, then all I can say is I hope you have fun with him in Heaven because I think he sounds like the kind of guy who would feed fishhooks covered in ground beef to a starving dog. Fuck him, and I'm sad for you for whatever made you think that he/she/it would wish such things upon his/her/its creations and for the lack of opportunity and sympathy that made you into such a hypocritical person, even if you don't realize it.

Yes, I'm in a bad mood in general. No, I don't want a hug.
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:16 PM on October 25, 2012 [15 favorites]


Mod note: AElfwine Evenstar please do not make every thread about Obama into a recitation of the horrors you think he is committing. It's derailing and inappropriate. Join the conversation in progress or make your own post, thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:17 PM on October 25, 2012 [6 favorites]


"In a letter dated Tuesday to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott threatened to prosecute any of its monitors who step within 100 feet of a Texas polling place on Election Day. The threat came even though U.S. State Department officials earlier this year had invited the monitors to observe the election."
posted by cashman at 2:17 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Obama used the word "bullshitter" to describe Mitt Romney in a forthcoming Rolling Stone piece.

The interview is up on their website:

Obama and the Road Ahead: The Rolling Stone Interview.
posted by homunculus at 2:36 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


ROMNEY: "President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and heal the planet."
ROMNEY: "MY promise...is to help you and your family." [... get rich quick. Frack the planet.]

Obama doesn't want the focus on Romney fossils. What Obama articulates poorly is the need to compete in a post-fossil-fuel world.

[Updated] Will a Greening China Leave America in the Dust?
Now They Have   ©2010 <-- 2 years ago


IMO Obama's a little scared of losing the election if he reveals his full plans too explicitly.
You guys don't want to get-rich-quick, do you?
posted by de at 2:38 PM on October 25, 2012


IMO Obama's a little scared of losing the election if he reveals his full plans too explicitly.

In a country where a sizable portion of the population still isn't convinced that he was ever eligible to be president in the first place, this is not terribly surprising.
posted by bardophile at 3:04 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


spitbull: "delivered policy victory after policy victory for Native communities facing issues that had been stalled for years? "

I would like more information about this. Seriously. Any links?
posted by wierdo at 3:17 PM on October 25, 2012


From Obama's already linked Rolling Stone interview:

Have you ever read Ayn Rand?
Sure.

What do you think Paul Ryan's obsession with her work would mean if he were vice president?
Well, you'd have to ask Paul Ryan what that means to him. Ayn Rand is one of those things that a lot of us, when we were 17 or 18 and feeling misunderstood, we'd pick up. Then, as we get older, we realize that a world in which we're only thinking about ourselves and not thinking about anybody else, in which we're considering the entire project of developing ourselves as more important than our relationships to other people and making sure that everybody else has opportunity – that that's a pretty narrow vision. It's not one that, I think, describes what's best in America. Unfortunately, it does seem as if sometimes that vision of a "you're on your own" society has consumed a big chunk of the Republican Party.


aka the "fuck you Paul Ryan" moment...

aka my "I didn't think Obama could still make me swoon like that" moment
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:25 PM on October 25, 2012 [42 favorites]


I guess what I'm saying is that if Obama could make even just 10% of the people who have Ayn Rand moments as teenagers grow out of it faster, then that might be the greatest lasting impact of his presidency.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:26 PM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]


> where a sizable portion of the population still isn't convinced

That's really beyond my understanding (much like tea party ratbaggery); they don't know what they have. Obama's a reformer.

I remember Kennedy being elected. It was so exciting I don't even recall Eisenhower; it was a long wait until Clinton, and now Obama ... the stand-outs are few and far between.

This election (I think) is the single most important election ever. Hopefully that sizeable portion isn't large enough to blow it for the world, because American leadership has a long reach.

I'm scared stiff.
posted by de at 3:28 PM on October 25, 2012


To the contrary, I've seen a lot of mainstream news outlets linking to and using Nate Silver's analysis.

Apparently it's important/relevant enough that "Silver is now becoming a target of the Right".
posted by inigo2 at 3:30 PM on October 25, 2012


Underlying the Republican rape comments and actual Republican political goals are a few fundamental convictions: first, women are vessels for childbearing and care-taking; second, women cannot be trusted; and third, women are the property of men.
women are both fundamentally unintelligent and dishonest. Akin's "legitimate rape" comment and Rivard's contention that "some girls rape easy" rely on the idea that women routinely lie about rape and shouldn't be believed; blocking VAWA relied partly on similar logic put forward by men's rights activists, that women lie about being abused in order to secure citizenship and other benefits. Hostility to abortion rights similarly positions rightwing lawmakers as the best people to determine whether or not any particular woman should be legally compelled to carry a pregnancy to term.

Women, they seem to think, don't know their own bodies or their own lives, and cannot be trusted to determine for themselves whether continuing a pregnancy is a good idea.
One of the many, many new strictures that Republican have placed on women seeking an abortion is the 24 hour waiting period. It is infuriating. If a woman comes to decision to have an abortion, she doesn't need time to think about it-- she has already had plenty of time to think. Further proof that Republican legislators think women are child-like and incapable of making the right decision for themselves.

So who called the McCain back peddle? Spineless git.

But, yeah, I'm with Tina Fey on this one. I am so creeped out by all this parsing and discussion of rape. It is amazing that so many men have felt the need to share their ideas about what rape is and what happens and how to define it. Disgusting.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:33 PM on October 25, 2012 [15 favorites]


spitbull: "delivered policy victory after policy victory for Native communities facing issues that had been stalled for years? "

wierdo: I would like more information about this. Seriously. Any links?
President Obama Answers Questions From Indian Country Today Media Network in Unprecedented Exchange, Rob Capriccioso, Indian Country Today, 4 October, 2012
Not only is this the first time President Obama has done a Q&A with the American Indian press, it is believed to be the first time a sitting president of the United States has conducted such an interview with Native media. It’s a first that aligns with the image Obama has worked hard to cultivate in Indian country. Adopted as “One Who Helps People Throughout the Land” when he was campaigning for president on the Crow Nation reservation in May 2008, he has since hired several Native American staffers, held three annual tribal summits and taken administrative action on multiple long-standing trust and water settlements. He has also supported and signed pro-tribal legislation, including the Indian Health Care Improvement Act, the Tribal Law and Order Act and the Helping Expedite and Advance Responsible Tribal Homeownership [HEARTH] Act. His record has pleased many tribal leaders; some hail him as one of the best presidents for Indian country in recent history.
posted by ob1quixote at 3:34 PM on October 25, 2012 [12 favorites]


Mother Jones has some nice charts on Women's votes, both now and in the past. For example, in 1972 60% of women were voting Republican and 40 % Democrat. Now that has almost reversed itself. So Republicans, now is a really good time to tell us all some more about Rape and God and birth control and how we are too dumb to make our own choices. Because that is really working well for you!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:39 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


Why Mourdock 'rape' comment was Romney's chance to show leadership

Joy Reid and Christine Todd Whitman make a good point that this shows the failure of Mitt to show leadership and stand up to the crazies in his own party. The primaries are over; what's stopping him from showing his true feelings on this stuff? What's going to happen when it comes to selecting Supreme Court Justices, cutting medicare, bombing Iran? Where's the leadership?
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:52 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


New wrinkle in election campaigning: Koch Brothers are offering high school students $10.00/hour to "educate Americans on President Obama's failing economic agenda!" The participating students from "the winning school" get $30.00 bonus. I'm not sure how the schools compete, however, so I don't know how one school "wins." Most hours put in? Most number of calls made? Most converts?

Poster with details.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:55 PM on October 25, 2012


That's fucking hilarious, Secret Life of Gravy. As if being badgered over the phone by a disinterested teenager is going to make anyone think kindly of Mitt Romney.
posted by howfar at 4:11 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


I suppose I mean disinterested and uninterested. It's not just the likely lack of any real political beliefs, but also the likely total boredom, that makes this a stupid idea.
posted by howfar at 4:13 PM on October 25, 2012


roomthreeseventeen: The Romney campaign has quietly decided Mitt will no do no more interviews before election day.
So now, with less than two weeks before the election, they have quietly announced that they are treating Mitt the way the McCain campaign dealt with Palin — other than reading speeches off teleprompters at campaign rallies, Romney is going dark … until after he’s elected?
I'll repeat that: Mitt is being treated like Sarah Palin, not like John McCain. The GOP presidential hopeful is the wildcard. Paul Ryan? Meh, he stormed into an apolitical soup kitchen run by a faith-based organization and washed some dirty dishes for a photo op, and it backfired terribly, with donors no longer funding the kitchen, and angry Republicans harassing the kitchen for not playing along with the staged performance, but at least he hasn't tried to redesign the globe to put Syria between Iran and the ocean.
posted by filthy light thief at 4:13 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


I don't quite understand McCain being such a water carrier for the Romney camp.

Party loyalty above all.

He likes to sabre rattle against Iran but let's be honest even Romney would have a hard time selling an attack on Iran to congress at this point.

He'd be selling it after a big terror attack, or during an Israel/Iran war, I presume. It would be a barftastic display of rhetoric and lies, but I fear they could probably sell it, especially considering how the US is right now going around killing at will in the region anyway so how much approval does he really need? Has your belief in the responsibility of the media, the oppositional strength of the Democrats, or the power of immense public protests made any progress since 2003? (My hope would be on the protestors.)
posted by fleacircus at 4:22 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


I suppose I mean disinterested and uninterested. It's not just the likely lack of any real political beliefs, but also the likely total boredom, that makes this a stupid idea.

Yes. I think that $10.00 an hour will be tempting to high schoolers, especially because of the flexible hours, but it will be a dull job and I imagine few will stick with it. Plus, lots of kids that age will not diss Obama. So I don't know how that is going to work out for them.

Romney's 9 Point Plan to Annihilate Unions
7. Ban teachers unions outright from donating to political campaigns. (He's fine with corporations donating as much as they’d like, however.)

8. Pass a national “right-to-work” law, which would allow all workers benefiting from union agreements and services to avoid paying dues. Romney was opposed to this in 2008, but now supports such a law, in line with the new GOP platform.

9. Strip nearly all bargaining rights from public workers, a la the measures signed by governors John Kasich and Scott Walker (and subsequently repealed by Ohio voters and partly rejected by Wisconsin judges, respectively). Both laws also banned automatic dues deductions and made union certification more difficult.
Not something he talks much about.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:23 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Paul Ryan? Meh, he stormed into an apolitical soup kitchen run by a faith-based organization and washed some dirty dishes for a photo op

Actually, the dishes weren't even dirty, someone else had already cleaned them.
posted by homunculus at 4:32 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Meh, he stormed into an apolitical soup kitchen run by a faith-based organization and washed some dirty dishes for a photo op...

No, he washed CLEAN dishes for a photo op. Yes, those dishes were already clean when he strapped on his apron and washed them.
posted by NoMich at 4:33 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


Here is the deal on that unsealed court testimony: Mitt Romney vouched for low price on Staples stock that traded 10 times higher a year later
But on April 28, 1989, barely a year after Sullivan Stemberg sold more than half of her shares on the premise that they were worth less than $2.50 apiece, the company made its initial public offering at $19 per share and ended its first day at $22.50.

The closing price made Staples, which operated 23 stores at the time, worth more than $200 million. Stemberg, holding 567,000 shares, claimed $12.8 million in company stock.

Sullivan Stemberg’s 245,000 remaining shares were worth $5.5 million, but she had lost out on millions more by accepting low sale prices in 1988.

“If she had just hung on to [her] stock she would be one of the wealthiest women in Boston today,” Stemberg told the Wall Street Journal in 1997.
Basically Romney screwed the ex-wife over in order to help out a buddy. It isn't going to matter a whit to most people and in fact it may be seen as a positive thing to some men.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Just as there is no soul so clean that God can't find some grime to remove, so too is there no dish so clean that Ryan can't make it even cleaner.

For example, now that they've lost funding, the odds are good the dish will never have food on it again, thus making it clean for all time.

Ryan says "you're welcome."
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:42 PM on October 25, 2012 [9 favorites]


Here is the deal on that unsealed court testimony

Not much to it, unless somebody can prove that he knew the stock was worth more, which I doubt is possible.
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:56 PM on October 25, 2012


Yeah, that's pretty weaksauce. Absent some proof of something really bad on Romney's unreleased tax returns, I don't think there will be any kind of October Surprise for either candidate.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:02 PM on October 25, 2012


President Obama Answers Questions From Indian Country Today Media Network in Unprecedented Exchange, Rob Capriccioso, Indian Country Today, 4 October, 2012
What does tribal sovereignty mean to you? What is the best way to resolve conflicts between tribal nations and the federal and state governments?

I believe that treaty commitments are paramount law, and I will strive to fulfill these commitments as president. This means providing quality, affordable health care and improving education quality on reservations across America.
George W. Bush:
Tribal sovereignty means just that; it's sovereign. You're a -- you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:14 PM on October 25, 2012 [10 favorites]


The only thing I've heard as a negative about Obama's relationship with Native American tribes is that Native-owned companies that did mail-order cigarettes were forced out of business when the law preventing cigarette shipments by mail passed. I worked for a Native-owned company that had some subsidiaries go under because of that (though that business was PEANUTS compared to the government contracting stuff they got advantages on for being HUBZone certified).
posted by jason_steakums at 5:48 PM on October 25, 2012


The Romney campaign has quietly decided Mitt will no do no more interviews before election day.

Kind of like movies that refuse to give press screenings before opening night.
posted by the_artificer at 5:52 PM on October 25, 2012 [15 favorites]


Those are always block-busters, no?
posted by wenestvedt at 5:55 PM on October 25, 2012


Or Mr. Big Shot Businessman "I know what it takes" can't even accurately predict a rising stock price for a single company, let alone fix an entire economy?
posted by Salamandrous at 5:58 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


He is the hollow man,
He is the stuffed shirt
Leaning over
Hairdo gelled and strong. Alas!
posted by GrammarMoses at 6:00 PM on October 25, 2012


E-voting puts vote accuracy at risk in four key states -- "In four battleground states, glitches in electronic-voting machines could produce erroneous tallies that would be difficult to detect and potentially impossible to correct, a Monitor analysis finds."
posted by ericb at 6:02 PM on October 25, 2012


That Bush tribal sovereignty thing is so priceless. Coincidentally I just played it for a bunch of students (many Native themselves) who were like 8 when Bush was elected. If we still had answering machines with clever messages I'd use that for mine.

It reveals his essential dumbassness better than almost anything he ever said, and that is some rarefied company.
posted by spitbull at 6:04 PM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]


The sheer lack of empathy in all these comments by Republican officials on rape (1 2) is astonishing. Aren't these people ashamed to appear in public? Do they consider their seat worth it if it's achieved by subjugating half the population they are meant to serve? Don't they have any real relationship with a woman ---be it a mother, sister, wife or friend? Is it some kind of moral blinkers where they think the women they know will never be in that position because they aren't 'asking for it' or do they cynically know that they'd have the means to get plan B or an abortion if someone they cared about needed it? What has gone wrong so that a lawmaker, a woman, thinks that an 11-year-old kid was responsible for getting raped? How can someone want to lead 300 million people and not come down like a ton of hammers on his would-be senator's comments?

Let's hope these sentiments get first the electoral and then the societal comeuppance they deserve.
posted by ersatz at 6:32 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


I think it's more intellectually honest that the bullshit rape, incest, or life of the mother formulation that republicans cling to. Pro-choice people really need to drive a wedge here. I think this and contraception are the real fracture points in the anti-choice coalition.
posted by empath at 6:40 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


Well, I've always despised the inconsistency of people who are rigidly pro-life except in cases of rape. It just doesn't make sense, and it has seemed weaselly to me from day one. If you believe every single fertilized cell-clump deserves to make it to the finish line because it's sacred, I see absolutely no reason why the way that clump got fertilized matters. So as much of an asshole as that Republican dude is, he's a consistent asshole. I agree with empath that this is where the wedge is. If there's something about the requirement to carry a pregnancy to term that you think could maybe be re-evaluated based only the conditions under which it began, you're on the road to pro-choice already. If you don't think any form of trauma in and around conception and pregnancy should ever excuse a person from carrying a pregnancy to term, you're a true pro-lifer, but you're also kind of a monster. There is a real line that should be explicitly drawn betweeen these two positions.
posted by Miko at 6:46 PM on October 25, 2012 [30 favorites]


That's something I've liked about the Tea Party movement; it's empowered the social conservatives to speak their minds and be judged on their words, rather than hiding behind the skirts of the GOP strategists. I hope they keep standing up for their beliefs.
posted by fleacircus at 7:28 PM on October 25, 2012 [13 favorites]


ersatz: Is it some kind of moral blinkers where they think the women they know will never be in that position because they aren't 'asking for it' or do they cynically know that they'd have the means to get plan B or an abortion if someone they cared about needed it?

Both. They genuinely view rape as an avoidable consequence. It's always the woman's fault - even down to the eleven year old girl you mention. It is always the rape victim's fault. She always did something wrong. They can't wrap their heads around "don't rape" instead of "don't get raped," because rape is a thing that women cause to happen. Always. They will find a way to blame the victim, even if she is a child.

Of course they have backup contraceptive options - Plan B or an abortion - if they need it. For them, it's justified. They believe that they have extenuating circumstances and deserve it, while most others do not. It's bad, except in their individual case. It's bad, but [garble], so it's allowed. Do as we say, not as we do.
posted by cmyk at 7:59 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Don't forget that 11 year old was poor and brown as well as female. Therefore she must have been at fault just like Trayvon Martin.
posted by emjaybee at 8:08 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


Paul Ryan? Meh, he stormed into an apolitical soup kitchen run by a faith-based organization and washed some dirty dishes for a photo op

Actually, the dishes weren't even dirty, someone else had already cleaned them.


The head of the soup kitchen, Brian Antal, later clarified that Ryan did wash a few dirty dishes, but that's not the point. The issue was that 1) he didn't get permission from the people who actually ran the kitchen, and 2) the non-profit is (was?) apolitical because they run on donations, and Antal "is concerned that being connected to the campaign could negatively impact their support." They both lost funding, and got harassed by anonymous people on the phone and on Facebook.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:47 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


It's ugly and cold comfort, but one small flicker of eh good news is that the rapey comments took two Senate races the Democrats where likely to lose and turned them into races they are likely to win. (IN Senate chances)

Perhaps, just perhaps it will serve as a lesson
(ha.. right)
posted by edgeways at 9:03 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Charles P. Pierce: Elizabeth Warren: The Politics Blog Interview
posted by homunculus at 9:55 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]




You know what's funny? If Obama was white he'd be winning 73-27 and we'd be in for the the first complete electoral college sweep ever.
posted by bardic at 1:00 AM on October 26, 2012 [12 favorites]


Charles P. Pierce: Things in Politico That Make Me Want to Guzzle Antifreeze, DOOMSDAY Edition
Let me see if I have this parsed correctly. Conservatives have committed themselves to raging paranoia about things the president has no intention of doing in his second term. Meanwhile, liberals have committed themselves to raging paranoia about things the Republicans already have said (on reproductive freedom) and things that Republicans already have done (on voter-suppression laws.) Eric Holder's calling the new voter-ID laws a "poll tax" is exactly the same as Wayne LaPierre's saying that the president and his UN allies are going to take away all our guns. So Both Sides Do It, and aren't those crazee bloggerz funny? Ho, ho. ho.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:12 AM on October 26, 2012 [10 favorites]


I'm so glad Charles P. Pierce keeps calling out these "savvy" journalists and their idiot meta-politics for what they are, which is back-patting, revenue-generating swill. God, fuck those people and their excuse for a job.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:18 AM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


The Only Chart That Matters: "Nearly everything you need to know about the candidates in this election is contained in this table of their top donors*, compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics. Although he’s long since dropped out of the race, I include Ron Paul for purposes of comparison"
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:57 AM on October 26, 2012 [5 favorites]


ersatz you raise an interesting point: in my limited experience some woman actively collude in hiding issues like this from their husbands/families/social set.

I have two points of reference. My grandmother was a local healer and corpsewasher in a small Irish community 40s-70's, and in my first year of Au Pair in Spain 1980 I moved in quite rarified circles (the company I worked for provided the Irish Catholic Au Pairs for high ranking Spanish families, e.g. the king of Spain's sister).

In Ireland I observed a local politician's wife and a local bank manager's wife demand "something" to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy. My grandmother could not comply as she had previously been invesitgated for practicing medicine without a licence for advocating yoghurt for vaginal thrush. She apparently cut into the private practice income of the local Mr Goldfinger as we called him. Anyhow, one woman went off for a "shopping trip" to England while the the bank manager's wife who was further along gave birth. It was unfortunate at that time tghat the only non-white person (African American) in the community was an imported Basketball player when the Irish Basketball association tried to raise the standards (successfully) of the game. The only one plus the new baby of course.

In the wealthier echelons in Spain I saw and overheard quite a few situations where unwanted pregnancies, (in one case the result of a drunken rape by the Brother -in law of a high court judge) was covered up by the woman to "spare her husband the humiliation". 5 days after her trip to London she insisted I use my only day off to march against abortion on the streets of Madrid.
With no apparent irony she called the socilaist politician who promoted the decriminalisation of abortion a cerdo (pig) and made her 6 kids draw a big poster of this.

In reality I believe there was also a strong element of survival and of maintaining social position and income here as there is no question we were deep in victim blaming territory. Wealthy highly educated women were no exceptions to that particularly pernicious mind-set. Also it is (was?) easier and safer not to speak out.

just speaking statistically quite a few of those men speaking about abortion and rape will have some female member of their family who was able by dint of economic resources to "take a holiday with the girls" or an "extended shopping trip to NYC" or whatever the excuse that works.

With limited economic resources the problems can't be hidden as well and some men and women have had to face extraordinarily painful choices and situations and decide what is right for them.

Wealth is an insulating factor for other men & women and the problems can be hidden more effectively.

benighted souls.
posted by Wilder at 4:03 AM on October 26, 2012 [22 favorites]


sincere apologies if you feel that was a de-rail, I do feel that the "out-of-touchness" of some of your politicians is surprising to outsiders watching this who live in communities where extreme wealth is not an issue.
It took 20+ years in Ireland when our PM who was on a salary of about £35,000 managed to acquire a beautiful estate called Abbeville, from what he claimed was "wise investment". Certain enterprising young journos just would not take this on face value and pursued the situation untilt he truth came out.
posted by Wilder at 4:11 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Regarding rape exceptions -- I don't think they're completely inconsistent with an "embryos and fetuses are people" point of view. Pro-choice people often make the analogy that forcing someone to continue a pregnancy is like forcing someone to donate bone marrow or a kidney. We shouldn't compel that kind of sacrifice, even if another person's life does depend on it. The pro-life answer to this is usually that the woman is responsible for that life, in that she made a decision which she knew could lead to its creation ("She already made a choice.") So it's fair to compel her to support it.

But even sincerely pro-life people may agree with the pro-choice person that when the woman did not make such a choice, then she has no obligation to the child she is carrying, any more than any of us has an obligation to donate our spare kidneys to any of the strangers who are even now on waiting lists and will die without them. Those strangers are still people, however, and in the pro-life, pro-rape-exception view, so are the embryos and fetuses of rape victims.

Not that most of the male politicians who take this "with a few exceptions" position seem to have thought it out this clearly. But I think there are quite a few women out there who sincerely think this way (especially women who are mothers.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:38 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Brad DeLong: 'What are the odds that the David Brooks column on November 7 will read: "In January 2001 America made the mistake of installing the popular-vote loser George W. Bush as president. We must not repeat this mistake by installing popular-vote loser Barack Obama"? '

Right on cue, marketers tap into the Election 2012 horse race to try to boost sales of everything from Halloween masks to coffee. They also sometimes tap into voters' preferences with bizarre accuracy.

CEO of International Corporation Sends Romney Fundraising Pitch to His Employees
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:50 AM on October 26, 2012




Thanks for the story, Wilder. I take it the politician was Felipe González.
posted by ersatz at 5:05 AM on October 26, 2012


Man of Twists and Turns, your link about the marketers goes to this thread.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:32 AM on October 26, 2012


CSMonitor: For Election 2012 prognosis, look to ... Halloween masks?
Yep, every four years marketers have an irresistible chance to tap into the horse race and bring in the bucks. But it seems they also sometimes tap into voters’ preferences with bizarre accuracy.

Halloween is approaching, so let’s start with masks.

According to sales by two big retailers of Halloween costumes, Mr. Obama is on track to win this year, though the race is still tight in a few states.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:36 AM on October 26, 2012


NRO: The President’s Ridiculous Pamphlet
Barack Obama has released a ridiculous little 20-page pamphlet — 20 pages with lots of pictures — detailing his agenda for a second term. He calls it the “New Economic Patriotism,” and if that name seems to you redolent of early-20th-century totalitarians, that may be because it is not the first N.E.P.: Lenin’s was the Novaya Ekonomicheskaya Politika. Mitt Romney published an economic-policy book, too. No pictures.
The Economist: A little history lesson
NATIONAL REVIEW denounces the economic agenda booklet the Obama administration released yesterday. ... Interesting reference! The Novaya Ekonomicheskaya Politika was a free-market economic reform package introduced by the Soviet government in 1921. It entailed a retreat from an all-state economic model in favour of institutionalised recognition of a legitimate private sector in industry and agriculture, as well as a dramatic tax cut.
Mother Jones: Know Your Communist History
I'll grant you that an association with Lenin does no politician any good, regardless of which particular policy we're talking about. Still, if you're going to be childish enough to object to something because of its initials, you probably ought to at least know what you're talking about first.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:42 AM on October 26, 2012 [10 favorites]


The Only Chart That Matters: "Nearly everything you need to know about the candidates in this election is contained in this table of their top donors*, compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics. Although he’s long since dropped out of the race, I include Ron Paul for purposes of comparison"

GOOGLE (gives money to) RON PAUL (but more to Obama).
posted by zombieflanders at 5:42 AM on October 26, 2012


BTW, the 3rd quarter GDP numbers are out, and they're better than expected (and I can't wait for the "GDP truthers"):
Real gross domestic product -- the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States -- increased at an annual rate of 2.0 percent in the third quarter of 2012 (that is, from the second quarter to the third quarter), according to the "advance" estimate released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the second quarter, real GDP increased 1.3 percent.

The Bureau emphasized that the third-quarter advance estimate released today is based on source data that are incomplete or subject to further revision by the source agency (see box below). The "second" estimate for the third quarter, based on more complete data, will be released on November 29, 2012.

The increase in real GDP in the third quarter primarily reflected positive contributions from personal consumption expenditures (PCE), federal government spending, and residential fixed investment that were partly offset by negative contributions from exports, nonresidential fixed investment, and private inventory investment. Imports, which are a subtraction in the calculation of GDP, decreased.

The acceleration in real GDP in the third quarter primarily reflected an upturn in federal government spending, a downturn in imports, an acceleration in PCE, a smaller decrease in private inventory investment, an acceleration in residential fixed investment, and a smaller decrease in state and local government spending that were partly offset by downturns in exports and in nonresidential fixed investment.
For comparison's sake, the same numbers for Q2 and Q3 2008 were decreases of 5% and 8%. Of course, a 2% increase isn't great, but they do reflect a recovery. Now, the average voter probably isn't paying attention to this, but it's not bad news for either the economy or the President. One more big piece of economic news left (the unemployment report next week) before the election.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:47 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


ersatz, it was his Minister for Justice Francisco Fernanadez Ordonez, I'm trying to remember what the chant was, it was deeply uncomfortable.
posted by Wilder at 5:48 AM on October 26, 2012


Romney campaign chair: Powell motivated by race
John Sununu told CNN last night, "When you take a look at Colin Powell, you have to wonder whether that's an endorsement based on issues or whether he's got a slightly different reason for preferring President Obama?"

Asked what that other reason might be, the Republican added, "Well, I think when you have somebody of your own race that you are proud of being president of the United States, I applaud Colin for standing with him."

First, I rather doubt Mitt Romney's campaign chairman "applauds" the fact that a respected national figure endorsed President Obama on national television.

But putting that aside, Sununu's comments help capture a narrow, ignorant worldview. From the Romney aide's perspective, if an accomplished American with a celebrated record of public service endorses a successful president, the logical explanation is to assume it's motivated by race. For Sununu, the tired "blacks stick together" caricature is easier than thinking.

This from the same Republican who believes Obama is "lazy" and who pushed the odious and racially charged welfare lie.

A few hours after his CNN interview, Sununu -- or more likely, someone writing a press release for Sununu -- said in a statement he has "no doubt" that Powell's support for the president is based solely on "his support of the president's policies."

This is extremely hard to believe because, well, Sununu had just said the exact opposite.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:50 AM on October 26, 2012 [9 favorites]


apologies, Ordonez was a member of UCD at the time not socialist party PSOE
posted by Wilder at 5:54 AM on October 26, 2012


zombieflanders: "This is extremely hard to believe because, well, Sununu had just said the exact opposite. "

I read this somewhere else: Will Rogers never met John Sununu.
posted by notsnot at 6:03 AM on October 26, 2012 [5 favorites]


I haven't seen Triumph the Insult Comic Dog's appearance in the press pool posted here yet. Sorry if I missed it above; I'm just watching it now and I'm dying.

John Sununu has no time to spare for Triumph and the look on his face is priceless.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:31 AM on October 26, 2012 [4 favorites]




The Worst Candidate of 2012 is a by turns comic and tragic look at Tennessee's Democratic Candidate for the US Senate. Mark Clayton was discussed previously on the blue this summer.
WHITES CREEK, Tenn. — The Democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate in Tennessee has no campaign headquarters, a fundraising drive stuck at $278 and one yard sign. Not one type of yard sign. One sign.

And with the election just days away, he has not actually put that sign in a yard. Instead, it resides inside candidate Mark Clayton’s pickup. “VOTE FOR,” the sign says. The rest is hidden by the seats.


“Jesus did not have a campaign staff. And he had the most successful campaign in human history,” Clayton said recently, when asked if all this adds up to a winning run against incumbent Sen. Bob Corker (R). Jesus “didn’t even have pictures or a Web site.”
Clayton is an anti-abortion homophobe who raised no money for his campaign and when reporters went to the address listed on his campaign application, it turned out to be Clayton's home. “I don’t know why you’re here,” he said, “I don’t come to your house.”

He beat out 2 other people in the primaries both of whom spent around $100 and he probably won the primary by virtue of being first on the ballot. The Democratic Party in Tennessee is telling voters to just write a name on the ballot but have not offered a choice so word is a lot of voters are writing in "Big Bird."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:15 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


If Obama does indeed pull this off, I would pay good money to see Triumph the next day in Kentucky mocking people from a shark cage.
posted by angrycat at 7:19 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]




John Sununu is really an awful human being. That is all.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 7:23 AM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


I started watching part of that Rock Center interview and got distracted by the song that starts around 3:00 or so. I know it as the beat from Anneurysm (Murs & Slug). What's it from?

Also, Google has a Realtime election coverage automatic update firehose. Gah. I really need to read less and canvas more.
posted by cashman at 7:31 AM on October 26, 2012


“Jesus did not have a campaign staff. And he had the most successful campaign in human history,” Clayton said recently, when asked if all this adds up to a winning run against incumbent Sen. Bob Corker (R).

Of course Jesus not only had a staff of 12 disciples and misc. supporters, but he also lost the election against Barabbas.
posted by ersatz at 7:42 AM on October 26, 2012 [14 favorites]


I'm Barabbas and so's my wife!
posted by edgeways at 7:49 AM on October 26, 2012


Romney adviser argues that the income inequality gap isn't real because people have microwaves and cell phones.

Didn't this get tried before? Didn't Jon Stewart mock it, talking about refrigerators?
posted by cashman at 8:07 AM on October 26, 2012


Jesus did not have a campaign staff. And he had the most successful campaign in human history

So the measure of success he's aiming for is being nailed to a cross? I see.
posted by elizardbits at 8:12 AM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


Yeah, the "if they're so poor, where'd they get that microwave?" thing has definitely been, uh, rewarmed. It's an easy, snappy line to trot out, regardless how stupid it is on consideration and how badly it contradicts the GOP's own current narrative about the terrible Democratic economy destroying struggling families yadda yadda yadda.
posted by cortex at 8:13 AM on October 26, 2012




Romney adviser argues that the income inequality gap isn't real because people have microwaves and cell phones.

My family was kind of poor when I was in Jr. High, and yet we had a microwave. However, the reason that we had a mcrowave is because our local supermarket was having a free drawing for stuff one month when I was 13 and I didn't feel like tagging along at Mom's heels when she was doing her grocery shopping, so I sat at the front of the store filling out entry slip after entry slip until she was done. It strikes me that basing an economic picture of a given family's financial health based on the lucky streaks of a teenage girl is flawed.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:18 AM on October 26, 2012 [8 favorites]


EmpressCallipygos, I live in a rent-controlled apartment in Manhattan. Our microwave comes with our apartment. It was free. We are in the position where we would be able to afford one, but I know lots of people aren’t, and are lucky that the microwave comes with their housing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


I've been pushing the point that all extremist utopian philosophies are dangerous, no matter what the foundation.

Extreme pacificism combined with extreme transparency (e.g. a skynet-style panopticon) and an extreme totalitarian police state. What could go wrong?

The Romney is winning/ Obama stole the election is totally groundwork for the Republican party continuing on their obstructionist strategy the next 4 years.

That is (or more properly, what I believe to be) the inherent problem with our political system. 95% of the efforts of our politicians, hell, maybe 98-99%, go towards electoral politics, i.e. getting elected or getting re-elected. Being a good campaigner (Clinton, Bush II, Obama) is FAR more important than having good policies or good governance.

And it works.

If the election continues on it's current trajectory then I think Obama will probably get 290-300 in terms of the EV and be safely re-elected.

I'll give you under 302 for Obama at even odds (that would be OH, VA, and PA for Obama; CO, NC, and FL for Romney). Exactly 302 (just CO) and we split. Anything over I win. If we're playing Price is Right, my own pick is 329 (CO, NC, and FL all for Obama).

People will call it a MANDATE.
posted by mrgrimm at 8:22 AM on October 26, 2012


A paper suggesting there was election fraud on behalf of Romney during the Republican primaries. Hummmmm.
posted by Andrhia at 8:23 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yeah, the "if they're so poor, where'd they get that microwave?" thing has definitely been, uh, rewarmed.

Yeah, those damn kids. They're all blowing their money on Nikes and still on welfare. Probably. That's the problem.

Anyone will say anything to get votes.
posted by mrgrimm at 8:23 AM on October 26, 2012


If we're playing Price is Right, my own pick is 329 (CO, NC, and FL all for Obama).

I think you might be confused about TPIR rules. If Obama gets 328, and you have 329, you lose.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:23 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


EmpressCallipygos, I live in a rent-controlled apartment in Manhattan. Our microwave comes with our apartment. It was free. We are in the position where we would be able to afford one, but I know lots of people aren’t, and are lucky that the microwave comes with their housing.

Even more evidence that "ownership of microwave =/= availability of liquid assets and purchasing power".

(That was one good microwave, though. It is still working nearly 30 years later; my parents are remodeling their kitchen right now and jokingly offered it to me as it was technically "mine". I declined. ....Although that's a good point - the family hung onto the aging 1980's microwave out of a lack of funds to purchase a new one up until just now.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:30 AM on October 26, 2012


Why is Paul Ryan in states that don’t matter? - because 2016.

Colin Powell Endorses President Obama:
But I recognize that mileage varies on him, and that the fact that he endorsed the president for re-election today not only carries some weight in certain influential circles, but also that it rather blows one of the tires out from under the Willard Is Cruising bandwagon that so many folks seemed to be signing themselves aboard. Also, too, and this should not be underestimated in its entertainment value, what Powell did today is making all the right heads detonate in all the right places. The general theme? What do you expect? Those people always stick together.
Young, drifting but back: The president’s star has faded, but young voters are still likely to back him

White working-class voters - Fed up with everyone

Coal or cars?: 'Will Barack Obama’s rescue of the car industry or his “war on coal” count for more in America’s most reliable bellwether?'
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:32 AM on October 26, 2012


Personally I'm hoping for a 332 result (CO, NV, IA, WI, OH, NH, VA, FL) but I'm certainly not expecting it and it would be a crushing defeat given the structural issues Obama was facing (Poor Economy, highly polarized electorate). If by some miracle he gets NC then I definitely think the Republicans need to go back to the drawing board for 2016.

Realistically I'm kinda expecting for Romney to get FL and VA but that's actually looking better and better for Obama all the time. Having your brand linked to Mourdock isn't helping you out Romney and your proxies like Sununu are coming off like asshats.
posted by vuron at 8:35 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Interestingly enough, Nate Silver has Virginia an eggshell shade of blue today.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:37 AM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]




Open letter from a Rapist (warning: possible Trigger) AKA Fan letter to certain conservative politicians.


I'm sad something like this needs to be written. But it really is that simple.
posted by Wilder at 8:39 AM on October 26, 2012 [14 favorites]


Yeah, the "if they're so poor, where'd they get that microwave?" thing has definitely been, uh, rewarmed.

[eyeroll] Just sounds like the latest iteration of the "I saw a black man driving a nice car once, so why do we have social programs?" idiocy from back in the day (which for me means 1970s). Sometimes the same observation pivoted to the claim there's no more racism in the US. You know, also because Bill Cosby had a hit sitcom and stuff (one of the 80s iterations of the meme).
posted by aught at 8:41 AM on October 26, 2012




I think VA is actually more likely an Obama win than FL, and FL is not impossible, just trended away, and could trend back. Any of OH, VA, NC or FL either seals the race or makes it neigh impossible for R. If NH votes O, then you add CO to the above list as well.

A week and a half out: I predict 303:235
posted by edgeways at 8:48 AM on October 26, 2012


Open letter from a Rapist (warning: possible Trigger) AKA Fan letter to certain conservative politicians.


I'm sad something like this needs to be written. But it really is that simple.
posted by Wilder at 10:39 AM on October 26 [+] [!]


Holy shit that is just a devastating piece.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 8:51 AM on October 26, 2012


Anti-Obama billboard greets Georgia 400 motorists

Under Attack By Commie-Nazis!
posted by the painkiller at 8:56 AM on October 26, 2012


In case you're wondering what the big story on the Right is:
FOXNEWS EXCLUSIVE: CIA operators were denied request for help during Benghazi attack, sources say.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:04 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


when the woman did not make such a choice, then she has no obligation to the child she is carrying, any more than any of us has an obligation to donate our spare kidneys to any of the strangers who are even now on waiting lists and will die without them.

This is still inconsistent for those who argue that a fetus is a human life and should be protected. It doesn't get a single person around that stipulation and can't be reconciled with it, because how the child got there must necessarily be irrelevant in such a life-and-death issue. Why should some lives deserve protection and some not, based only on the conditions of their conception? Why would somebody's "choice" matter in that? Or somebody's rape? If it's a sacred life that must be protected, there is no way you can point to anything done or not done by the mother that would impact its sacredness. The "choice" thing is a red herring that allows people to place blame on women who get pregnant for acting badly, but it remains inconsistent with the fundamental idea that a fertizilied zygote is a human being requiring state protection.
posted by Miko at 9:04 AM on October 26, 2012 [4 favorites]


the man of twists and turns: Charles P. Pierce: Things in Politico That Make Me Want to Guzzle Antifreeze, DOOMSDAY Edition
goHermGO
: Anti-Obama billboard greets Georgia 400 motorists
An inside source told me he guaranteed that within a week of election day all the banks will be closed, government offices will be shut down, and soldiers will be marching in the streets!

</hamburger>
posted by ob1quixote at 9:04 AM on October 26, 2012




What state is Romney using as residency? MA?
posted by edgeways at 9:09 AM on October 26, 2012


Denial.
posted by The Whelk at 9:17 AM on October 26, 2012 [21 favorites]


FPP on the abortion/rape stuff

Now deleted. Easy for me to wish it would have stayed because I don't have to be the one to moderate, delete comments and help guide the thread. I think it was an important and timely thread, and even had the "mefi's own" angle on top of it. The comments have almost all been from the past few weeks, some events from just this past Monday-Wednesday. The advisory charts were in there, a great juxtaposition with the terrorist advisory charts, contrasting what many consider the fake fear inducing against things that are actually terrifying, being said by elected officials. Just yesterday I think, some of them decided to reverse course and start supporting the rape comments. It's a big development, and women's rights and lives in America are drastically affected, and I just thought it had snowballed into an appropriate post.

But like I say, I'm not the one that has to spend my weekend reading, digesting, deciding and trying to maintain order. Maybe we need subject-related mods. People who are well educated on a topic who are called into action when these threads appear. Anyway, I do lament that the thread has now been deleted. Seems like an important, relevant topic, and the post was already filled with notable links.
posted by cashman at 9:21 AM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


Maybe we need subject-related mods. People who are well educated on a topic who are called into action when these threads appear.

Obviously a conversation for Metatalk if it needs to be a conversation, but my very short reaction is that if we ever seriously talk about hiring/appointing a moderator specifically to accommodate more discussion about rape on Metafilter, something has gone seriously, seriously wrong with Metafilter.

I know the topic is important, but Because It's Important is not and never has been part of the spirit of the posting guidelines; and as appalling as it is, the existence of shitty, regressive, apologetic right-wing rationales for why rape is not a big issue and abortion is not permissible is not remotely new or surprising however much the recent cluster of idiocy may be eyebrow-raising in its own right.
posted by cortex at 9:27 AM on October 26, 2012 [5 favorites]


I'm not sure that's a fair assessment, cortex. There were a *lot* of links in that post that were just good and interesting reads on their own merits.

Which *is* supposed to be the point of FPPs. Disappoint.
posted by absalom at 9:31 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Well, again, if we absolutely have to do this, Metatalk is the place for it.
posted by cortex at 9:35 AM on October 26, 2012


edgeways: "What state is Romney using as residency? MA?"

Yes.

There was an uproar about his 2000 and 2001 tax returns when he ran for governor of Massachusetts. To be eligible to run, a person must have been a resident of MA for 7 years. But on those tax returns, he put Utah as his primary residence. He then tried to amend them secretly when he was running for governor. He has homes in both states.

It all blew over, and he blamed the mistake as a clerical error. One that netted him a $4000 tax break in Utah.
posted by zarq at 9:35 AM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


Maybe we need subject-related mods. People who are well educated on a topic who are called into action when these threads appear.

Most of us on the mod team are actually fairly well educated on both politics and rape. The fact that this has become a big GRAR topic in the last few weeks of the US election does not mean that having several threads per day talking about rape and what some backwards assholes said about it is sensible. Part of rape culture, to me, is people's obsession with endlessly talking about it (often people not directly affected by it). I sometimes jokingly tell people that my job on MetaFilter is facilitating young men's discussions about rape and sexual harassment. If people need to talk this over more in MetaTalk, that's fine, but we all felt that having a "Look at these assholes talking about rape" is not that different from a "Look at these assholes!" post which tend to be ungreat for MeFi generally, regardless of how important the subject matter is.
posted by jessamyn at 9:37 AM on October 26, 2012 [26 favorites]


The links are still there and I think that the issue is interesting and raising its head in American politics and everything, but I also don't feel a compelling reason to discuss it on MeFi. Anyone can discuss it out in public on those sites where it dwells already and that would probably help the issue more.
posted by Miko at 9:45 AM on October 26, 2012


Maybe we need subject-related mods.

I call digs on moon landings and poetry about Farscape!

With another year of study and distance to heal the qounds, I can qualify for Battlestar Galatica.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:53 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Meta
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:54 AM on October 26, 2012


Qounds are like daggits, right?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:57 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


He has homes in both states.

And California FYI.

posted by crabintheocean at 10:01 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


He has homes in both states.

He's got a home in La Jolla too, where he apparently scolds his neighbors and calls the police over drinking and smoking pot on the beach. I really hope he's not angling for some future California governorship as his backup plan.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:04 AM on October 26, 2012


"Nearly four in 10 voters, 37 percent, in the eight swing states — Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Virginia and Wisconsin — say they have personally been asked for their support by a representative of the Obama campaign, either by phone, in-person or online in the past month. About as many, 35 percent, say they have heard from Romney’s side. Two weeks ago, more voters in this collection of states said they had recently heard from Obama than Romney."
posted by cashman at 10:08 AM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


cashman, that's very interesting, especially because it seems the more Romney has gotten "out there", the worse his poll numbers are this week.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:10 AM on October 26, 2012


He's got a home in La Jolla too

Meet Richard Hayes, he picks up Mitt Romney's Trash in La Jolla.

posted by cashman at 10:14 AM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


Maybe we need subject-related mods.

I call dibs on The History of Punk, and football (soccer). Not terribly contentious areas, I'll admit, but its a start.
posted by marienbad at 10:15 AM on October 26, 2012


oneirodynia: "He's got a home in La Jolla too, where he apparently scolds his neighbors and calls the police over drinking and smoking pot on the beach."

"Mr. Romney, have you ever smoked marijuana?"
"No, but I sure inhale some primo shit secondhand every other weekend in La Jolla."
posted by zarq at 10:17 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


I started watching part of that Rock Center interview

I watched that interview, and I was surprised by how little substance was really there. It was interesting in terms of the logistics of an enormous campaign, and the final minutes of the interview, where the President asks Williams to stay a little longer was fantastic, as was seeing the Women's Health stuffed into the pocket next to Obama's seat on Air Force 1. I'm just surprised that the Romney campaign is so paranoid or that they have so little faith in their candidate seeming genuine that they declined the offer.
posted by gladly at 10:24 AM on October 26, 2012


I'm just surprised that the Romney campaign is so paranoid or that they have so little faith in their candidate seeming genuine that they declined the offer.

They still don't have an economic plan with numbers. Mitt never released his years of tax returns. Do you feel like you know much about Paul Ryan? Or even Mitt? They've stuck to the strategy of trying to run as generic republicans. So at this point it seems like they want to be as "blank republican" as possible in the final days because they don't think it will hurt them.

On another note, after all I've seen from Romney & company during this campaign, I now have little doubt that this conversation (link to motherthread) a teacher says she had with him, actually happened.
posted by cashman at 10:32 AM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


"No, but I sure inhale some primo shit secondhand every other weekend in La Jolla."

Mittsy needs a little primo shit added to his non 7-11, cookies.
posted by Skygazer at 10:35 AM on October 26, 2012




I now have little doubt that this conversation (link to motherthread) a teacher says she had with him, actually happened.

Oh yeah, if he can snap back at the President with "That wasn't a question" during the debates, I have no doubt that he would say the same thing to a 'lowly' schoolteacher.
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:46 AM on October 26, 2012


FYI, that SLC Trib link is from a week or so ago.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:47 AM on October 26, 2012


Part of rape culture, to me, is people's obsession with endlessly talking about it (often people not directly affected by it).

Thank you. That bugs me so much.
posted by heyho at 10:49 AM on October 26, 2012


Part of rape culture, to me, is people's obsession with endlessly talking about it (often people not directly affected by it).

This is a really, really offensive comment to make. Just sayin.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:50 AM on October 26, 2012


She meant it's only offensive when young men want to talk about it. Which is also pretty damn offensive.
posted by Big_B at 11:00 AM on October 26, 2012


Cashman: On another note, after all I've seen from Romney & company during this campaign, I now have little doubt that this conversation (link to motherthread) a teacher says she had with him, actually happened

I have no doubt either. That sounds entirely in keeping with the way he acted during the debates.

The idea of having such a bully of a vainglorious bastard incapable of magnanimity or humility as president for four years is unsettling.

Romney's the kind of douche who'd hastily issue an order in an emergency, and many many people would die, simply because is incapable of communicating with an expert.

What is the hell is the point of being such a total dick to a well-meaning small town teacher who's genuine concern seems to be the well being of her students / children.
posted by Skygazer at 11:01 AM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


It can be considered offensive to put words in other people's mouths, too. Miko didn't say "Part of rape culture, to me, is young men wanting to talk about it."
posted by muddgirl at 11:02 AM on October 26, 2012


Sorry, jessamyn.
posted by muddgirl at 11:05 AM on October 26, 2012


Romney has $45 million edge for homestretch. There are lots of good nuggets worth reading in there too.
posted by cashman at 11:05 AM on October 26, 2012


The idea that there is anything called rape "culture" is disgusting and untrue.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:06 AM on October 26, 2012


The idea that there is anything called rape "culture" is disgusting and untrue.
Rape culture is a concept used to describe a culture in which rape and sexual violence are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media normalize, excuse, tolerate, or even condone sexual violence.
Rape and sexual violence are common in the USA, and prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone sexual violence.
posted by muddgirl at 11:08 AM on October 26, 2012 [5 favorites]


you're right, it's is not a culture, it's a toxic constricting goldfish bowl of rape water
posted by Wilder at 11:08 AM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Certainly disgusting, as to untrue that is something that could be vigorously debated, but 1 I don't feel qualified to take it on and 2 it is probably not a great topic for internet debate
posted by edgeways at 11:09 AM on October 26, 2012


Oh dear. I see we're really going in a fabulous direction now. How about we talk about Romney some more?
posted by Miko at 11:10 AM on October 26, 2012 [6 favorites]


why? we are talking about Romney and those he endorses.

several prominent people going for election (this is a political election thread) are on the record saying things that contribute to "legitimate" rape survivors like me feeling terrified, and I don't even live in the USA. But I've seen you export other violent government approved things like rendition and water-boarding and I worry.
posted by Wilder at 11:13 AM on October 26, 2012


I heard on NPR today that Texas Attorney General Greg Abbot is on Romney's short list to be head of the EPA (yes, this Greg Abbott). It's becoming harder and harder for me to defend Texas when our elected governor is spouting off UN-world-domination nonsense.
posted by muddgirl at 11:14 AM on October 26, 2012


I really hope he's not angling for some future California governorship as his backup plan.

If he comes within a thousand miles of the California political system I will be right there to ride that fucker out of the state on a rail. Thankfully by November 2014 I will have my citizenship to do just that.
posted by Talez at 11:17 AM on October 26, 2012 [6 favorites]


I really hope he's not angling for some future California governorship as his backup plan.

I admit that I would find a bit of amusement in his inevitable swing back to social liberal. "I've had ANOTHER change of heart after meeting a lovely lesbian couple with two children who can't afford a third! Of COURSE I support gay marriage and oppose abortion restrictions!"
posted by muddgirl at 11:27 AM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


Remember about a year and a half ago when people were convinced Rick Perry was gonna be the GOP golden child in 2012 and give Obama a serious fight?

Haha, good times.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:34 AM on October 26, 2012 [5 favorites]


why? we are talking about Romney and those he endorses.

I'm totally down with that. I was trying to recommend continuing to talk about that instead of wandering off into 'is rape culture a real thing.'
posted by Miko at 11:37 AM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


I now have little doubt that this conversation (link to motherthread) a teacher says she had with him, actually happened.

"I didn't ask you a question."

Mittens is a classic Bloomfield Hills douchebag.

And I speak as someone with experience being around Bloomfield Hills douchebags.

This week I entered a contest to spend election night in Chicago and meet the President.

But part of me would like to be wherever Mittens is that night, singing with a large group of people, "Nah nah nah NAH, nah nah nah NAH ... GOOD-BYE." [I hope ...]
posted by NorthernLite at 11:49 AM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


NorthernLite: This week I entered a contest to spend election night in Chicago and meet the President.

I entered that contest twice, yesterday (by donating to the Obama campaign). I got something of an unexpected windfall today, and plan on entering the contest at least once more before the day is done.
posted by syzygy at 11:53 AM on October 26, 2012


I really hope he's not angling for some future California governorship as his backup plan.

I have the same feeling about him that I had about Palin-- the VP/Presidency is only a power trip, the ultimate beauty pageant or popularity contest. If they can't have that, then anything less is meh. I believed Ann Romney's statement when she said that if Romney loses he will be finished with politics. And I can totally understand that, especially from her point of view. No more criticism. No more guarding of the tongue. No more endless fund raising with crappy food and worse conversation. No more stress over numbers. No more living of one's life under a microscope. Instead days and days of vacation with nothing to do except seek out pleasure. Romney is 65. Time to retire and enjoy the grandkids.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:10 PM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


The Break-Up, John Warner, The Morning News, 26 October, 2012 [via]
Elections once conferred a larger knowledge that made us feel more connected to what’s important. But this cycle’s meaningless content overload has delivered little more a desire to unplug.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:27 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


An independent "first-time" video for Obama. GROSS.
posted by headnsouth at 12:34 PM on October 26, 2012


SLOG, what you say makes perfect sense -- if a candidate has no ambitions to actually lead the country, but is just playing competitive "big boys with big toys" games. I honestly think the reason Romney is not detailing a plan for the country is that he has none.

He just has a love of winning, and a vague sense of the superiority of his own generic leadership -- a sense that might be rooted in a bizarre, semi-secret Mormon end-times vision called "The White Horse prophecy".
posted by msalt at 12:37 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney attempts to scare voters in Ohio with rumor that Jeep is sending jobs to China
Romney told Ohioans that a major manufacturer is on the verge of moving all its jobs to China — but it isn’t true. Chrysler is looking to build Jeeps in China for the Chinese market, not to move American jobs there. In fairness to Romney, the news story that gave rise to this tale seems to have been sloppily written. But all the relevant facts were in the original article. And in any case, there are no indications the Romney campaign bothered to check out its preferred story before working it into his stump speech.

In political terms, this goes directly to the heart of the argument Obama has been making about Romney to Ohioans about trust: That Romney can’t be trusted in a very fundamental way to level with them or genuinely look out for their interests, that he’ll tell them anything to win the election
In addition to California and Massachusetts, Mitt's home states, he is also losing in his birth state, Michigan.
the Romney campaign doesn’t seem to be seriously contesting Michigan. In the last 30 days, Ann Romney and Representative Paul D. Ryan have each visited the state once, but neither Mr. Romney nor Mr. Obama has campaigned there.

In a campaign with a native son on the ballot, “Michigan has lost its battleground status,” Mr. Ballenger said.

Can Mr. Obama thank the auto rescue for keeping Michigan out of play? Partly, but Mr. Romney is also unlikely to get a big home-state bonus, local analysts said.
An in-depth look at Michigan via 538
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:38 PM on October 26, 2012


Romney rejected new birth certificates for gay parents
As governor, he ordered review for each child


“Some gays are actually having children born to them,’’ he declared. “It’s not right on paper. It’s not right in fact."
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:39 PM on October 26, 2012


Blazecock, I read that last night and I thought I had posted a comment about it but apparently I only posted it in my mind. The thing that makes his actions particularly horrible is that he is punishing children for being born to the "wrong" parents. They will ever after have strange birth certificates that will look as though they have been tampered with and so whenever they have to produce their certificate it will look forged.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:47 PM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]




I just voted, but since Washington is vote-by-mail I don't get a little sticker. I'm settling for posting here instead. Not only that, but I voted for a republican for the second* time in my life. Note the NARAL endorsement.

*First time was for the same guy.
posted by stet at 12:52 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney Campaign Exaggerates Size Of Nevada Event With Altered Image

That's some serious stupid right there.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:56 PM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


"The White Horse prophecy"

I've known since the 80's that if you want to ride, don't ride the white horse.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:56 PM on October 26, 2012 [6 favorites]


It smacks of desperation to me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:57 PM on October 26, 2012


Romney Campaign Exaggerates Size Of Nevada Event With Altered Image

That is a terrible, terrible photoshop - I can tell by the pixels!
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:04 PM on October 26, 2012


It looks like a badly-stitched automatic panorama to me. If it were deliberately manipulated, wouldn't they have taken care to at least make the roof structure connect up?

(But either way: it's not a true representation.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:10 PM on October 26, 2012


People have already kind of got to why I asked what state Romney was claiming residency in. Considering he could claim some sort of 'residency' in 3 -4 states and in most of those states he will actually lose the vote... and that Paul is from a state they will also likely lose, my knock on question is, has there been a winning ticket where both the Prez an VP candidate have lost their home state?
posted by edgeways at 1:14 PM on October 26, 2012


An independent "first-time" video for Obama. GROSS.

We live in a world full of sexual references, and we use them to sell beer, cars, razors, and lots of other things. But use it to encourage young women to vote? Compare voting to sex? Heaven forfend. Such a thing would be beyond the pale.

Oops.

On Thursday night, at a working class bar in Bayonne, N.J., Reagan said, “I know what it’s like to pull the Republican lever for the first time, because I used to be a Democrat myself, and I can tell you it only hurts for a minute and then it feels just great.”
posted by ambrosia at 1:15 PM on October 26, 2012 [4 favorites]


It doesn't quite seem like a bad panorama to me, just because the stitched sections are tall, very narrow, and angled.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:16 PM on October 26, 2012




So funny, I made a graphic, and paid five bucks to post it here.

The Typeface Wars
posted by crywalt at 1:17 PM on October 26, 2012 [8 favorites]


edgeways, my brother the font of all presidential knowledge says Woodrow Wilson & Thomas Marshall won in 1916 despite losing New Jersey and Indiana
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:18 PM on October 26, 2012




Sign duplicates letters left to right, so it reads "ROMNENEY"

Someone is really bad at making panonoraramamas.
posted by oulipian at 1:20 PM on October 26, 2012 [9 favorites]


Romney rejected new birth certificates for gay parents

Romney’s Insensitivity To LGBT People: ‘I Didn’t Know You Had Families’
posted by homunculus at 1:25 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Thanks room
posted by edgeways at 1:26 PM on October 26, 2012


Almost 1.4 Million Pledge For Jesus as Write-In Candidate in 2012, as Disgruntled Evangelicals Vent Their Anti-Mormon, Anti-Obama Ire
I'm not saying Jesus was born outside of the United States. All I'm saying is that some people have raised legitimate questions about whether Jesus was born in the United States or not. So I'm afraid that I'm going to have to see his birth certificate. Long form.
posted by Flunkie at 1:29 PM on October 26, 2012 [14 favorites]


There's a wikipedia page on Presidents losing their home states. The only person to win the Presidency despite losing both the state of their birth and the state of residence is James Polk in 1844.
posted by ambrosia at 1:31 PM on October 26, 2012


And if They Might Be Giants have talk me anything, he was Napoleon of the Stump.
posted by maryr at 1:34 PM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


Write in Jesus! I think this is something that should be propagated in every conservative social media outlet possible.
posted by msalt at 1:37 PM on October 26, 2012 [9 favorites]




It would be awesome if a bunch of people wrote in Jesus and this guy became our president.
posted by desjardins at 1:46 PM on October 26, 2012 [10 favorites]


Maybe we need subject-related mods.

I call digs on moon landings and poetry about Farscape!


This is why I put my five narrow little interests dream Jeopardy categories in my profile.

I should probably replace one of them with "Disillusion" to be honest.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 1:53 PM on October 26, 2012


I will freely admit I was not a fan of H Clinton during the 2008 campaign, would have voted for her with no huge reservation had she won... but still it was too much Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton for me. If she felt strong enough I think I'd support her primary run in '16, and I'd love for Castro to be her running mate to get national experience for his own run down the road... but I could also easily see her not wanting to run again
posted by edgeways at 1:57 PM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


Romney’s Insensitivity To LGBT People: ‘I Didn’t Know You Had Families’

Wow:

GOODRIDGE: Governor Romney, tell me — what would you suggest I say to my 8 year-old daughter about why her mommy and her ma can’t get married because you, the governor of her state, are going to block our marriage?

ROMNEY: I don’t really care what you tell your adopted daughter. Why don’t you just tell her the same thing you’ve been telling her the last eight years.


Is this how Mitt Romney's faith instructs him to behave with gays and lesbians?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:09 PM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


I watched 'Boogie Man - The Lee Atwater Story' last night. Amazing precursor to this election.

The glorification of the gleeful spreading of lies as if it's a boyish prank, at least according to the Republican powers that be.
posted by readery at 2:10 PM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


Re: writing in Jesus

You can actually put Santa Claus on your ballot in a number of states. There's a guy who has legally changed his name to Santa Claus and is running in ... something like 15 or 18 states.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:14 PM on October 26, 2012




FTA:

Waas reveals how, after gays and lesbians in Massachusetts won the right to marry in 2003, Governor Romney wouldn't allow the Registry of Vital Records and Statistics to revise birth certificate forms for babies born to same-sex couples. The plan was to have the box for "father," for example, relabeled "father or second parent." But according to documents obtained by Waas, Romney rejected the plan, demanding the agency continue using old forms. Romney then demanded hospitals get permission from his office each time a child was born to a same sex-couple in order to cross out, with a pen, the label "father" or "mother," and write-in, with a pen, "second parent." (Romney also required gay male parents to get a court order before any birth certificate was issued.)

posted by futz at 2:34 PM on October 26, 2012


cashman: "Nearly four in 10 voters, 37 percent, in the eight swing states — Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Virginia and Wisconsin — say they have personally been asked for their support by a representative of the Obama campaign, either by phone, in-person or online in the past month. About as many, 35 percent, say they have heard from Romney’s side. Two weeks ago, more voters in this collection of states said they had recently heard from Obama than Romney."

Yeah, me and Obama are tight. He and Michelle email all the time, I get calls on my phone. it's getting a little embarrassing, to tell the truth. I mean, it's kinda like he's stalking me.

I know, I know!

Mefites are all, like, "DTMFA!" and "Cut off all contact!"

But I just can't quit the man.

Although my enthusiasm about volunteering for Obama's campaign waived after we waited in line to see him when he visited Florida Tech. We were behind somewhere between 900-1000 people for 4 hours, outside, in ninety-something degree weather, only to be told the cutoff point had been reached about 10 people in front of us and we weren't getting tickets. What, you couldn't have told me you were short 3 hours ago?! The really egregious part is that we stayed for a while longer to see if maybe they had miscounted, and it turned out they had, but they'd underestimated, and about 40 people they had told were getting tickets didn't end up getting any, either.
posted by misha at 2:36 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


I demand to see Jesus' birth certificate. (I'm thinking he wasn't born here.)
posted by Benny Andajetz at 3:17 PM on October 26, 2012


Romney Campaign Exaggerates Size Of Nevada Event With Altered Image


You can wreck the Constitution, Mitt, but keep your hands off my Altered Images.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:19 PM on October 26, 2012 [4 favorites]


Almost 1.4 Million Pledge For Jesus as Write-In Candidate in 2012, as Disgruntled Evangelicals Vent Their Anti-Mormon, Anti-Obama Ire

I'm honestly more surprised that they're voting for the brown guy who doesn't speak English.
posted by Talez at 3:28 PM on October 26, 2012 [5 favorites]


I'm honestly more surprised that they're voting for the brown guy who doesn't speak English.

Also wasn't there this whole thing about how his apostles expected to be all overthrowin' the oppressive Roman government, and Jesus was all, "Nah, that's not the kind of peace and freedom I'm talking about"?

But I guess this sort of subtlety is lost in the mania to prove that YOU have the most Jesus in YOUR life. He's your copilot! No, he's in your driver's seat! He's your boyfriend/bridegroom! No, he's your PRESIDENT!
posted by muddgirl at 3:34 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Scary read: How the Rich Are Turning State and Local Races Into Their Own Personal Political Playgrounds
[Rex] Sinquefield appears to be a mild-mannered libertarian activist in online video interviews, but his political money trail reveals an obstinate if not ruthless operator. Any economist will tell you that replacing income taxes with sales taxes most heavily impacts the poor while leaving the wealthy with more cash.

To Sinquefield, the political gets personal. This year, he tried to place a referendum on the November ballot to repeal Missouri’s income tax. His lawyers filed 22 proposals to replace income taxes with sales taxes. That crusade—amounting to one-sixth of all ballot items filed in Missouri this year—became stalled in a dispute over ballot wording by the outgoing Democratic Secretary of State, Robin Carnahan. Sinquefield responded by sending $400,000 to a GOP candidate seeking to succeed her before Labor Day. The state is one of four with no candidate contribution limits. (In other states with donation limits, those kinds of sums have gone into ‘independent’ committees, such as the ‘Now Or Never PAC’ attacking Duckworth in Illinois.)

When one wealthy man can come close to upending a state’s tax structure—and make it more punitive on multitudes while privately standing to profit—it more than suggests that the democratic process is unraveling.
The Citizens United ruling is turning America into a Plutocracy. We need to get some legislation on that before it is too late.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:35 PM on October 26, 2012 [6 favorites]


(Umm, that's the general, hypothetical "you")
posted by muddgirl at 3:35 PM on October 26, 2012


Harry Reid in a car crash in Vegas. Hospitalized but in good condition.
A spokeswoman for the University Medical Center in Las Vegas, Karen Gordon, said Reid was in good condition after the accident, which occurred as his caravan of four vehicles was traveling northbound on Interstate 15. She said he would remain in the hospital for further evaluations this afternoon.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:56 PM on October 26, 2012


Yeah, me and Obama are tight. He and Michelle email all the time, I get calls on my phone. it's getting a little embarrassing, to tell the truth. I mean, it's kinda like he's stalking me.

I know the feeling. Part of it is the subject lines of the emails - they are a little...intimate. Like emails from a needy, skittery suitor. "Hey." "I Need Your Help." "Miko, Do Me a Favor." "Miko, Are You With Me?" "Before I Go Onstage..." "I Just Got Offstage..." ..."Have Dinner With Me!"... "I Want to See You in Manchester"..."Wasn't That Amazing?"..."It's Making Them Nervous."

I don't mind. Whatever it takes.
posted by Miko at 4:01 PM on October 26, 2012 [6 favorites]


For anyone wanting a laugh: Meat Loaf Endorses Mitt Romney, Sings "America The Beautiful"
posted by smithsmith at 4:09 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Why Obama Will Win
The Republican spin was that it didn’t matter—that because their candidate had already reset the race, we were in the midst of a Romney “surge” and he was on the road to victory. This argument became the new heart of Mitt’s moderate makeover. He can’t afford to emphasize his policies; he avoids details and specifics because they would doom him almost across the board—from taxes to Medicare to education cuts. Instead he updated his message of the campaign as referendum: if you’re dissatisfied with the economy, give me a try; after all, I’m acceptable now.

The “surge” story largely if briefly captivated a press corps craving a close race and intrigued by a potential upset, Romney and his advisers had added an after-burner to their narrative, claiming victory before counting of the votes in the apparent belief that the spin will birth the result. Romney strategist Stuart Stevens even spoke of the campaign in the past tense: “Obama … might have had a shot.” The bloviating John Sununu, the former New Hampshire governor who was tossed out as chief of staff in the first Bush White House, foretold “close to 300” electoral votes for Romney.
Basically an extremely rich white guy trying to run as both a moderate and an extremist, without charisma and without a game plan to match the President's never really had a chance.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:17 PM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


There's a wikipedia page on Presidents losing their home states. The only person to win the Presidency despite losing both the state of their birth and the state of residence is James Polk in 1844.
Romney as Polk.
posted by GrammarMoses at 4:20 PM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


An independent "first-time" video for Obama. GROSS.

Gross, but not quite as gross as Republicans crying crocodile tears about it. Any journalist that doesn't follow-up their condemnations with the question "Oh, and what do you think about mainstream Republican policy of forcing women to carry their rapist's baby to term?" is a hack.
posted by smithsmith at 5:53 PM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]




Joey Michaels, surely you meant to refer to this?
posted by jokeefe at 6:00 PM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm always shocked/appalled by the aggregation on Real Clear Politics. 50% of their posts link to drudge-worthy rightwing partisan BLOGs, not actual news sites.
At the very least it makes it easy to see the cocky delusion of a sure-fire win for Romney and inevitable Obama implosion. You can already hear them popping the bubbly.
posted by Theta States at 6:03 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Could someone smarter than me tell me why this guy's argument doesn't hold water?

Why I Think Obama Is Toast

Saw this on a baseball writer's Twitter, who made the point this guy might be angling to be a rightwing Nate Silver (the author of this piece has a baseball background, like Silver.)

Of course, that doesn't make sense to me, because I don't see Silver as being partisan. Republicans never seem to realize that he nailed 2010 just as much as he did 2008.

I need to step away from election coverage, because everything seems to point to Obama winning and I still can't help feeling terrified when I read something like the above.
posted by imabanana at 6:03 PM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


Could someone smarter than me tell me why this guy's argument doesn't hold water?

He says it himself:

Needless to say, if the Rasmussen and Gallup surveys accurately depict the electorate

Short answer: They don't.

Depending on how much credence you give the "Nate Silver Truthers" you need to look at polls as an unwieldy multi-headed beast that needs to be tamed. Taking one head and saying "I've chopped this one off!" doesn't exactly work.
posted by Talez at 6:09 PM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


Needless to say, if the Rasmussen and Gallup surveys accurately depict the electorate

I'd focus on this sentence right here. Rasmussen has a well known 'house effect' of up to 3 points towards Rs, and Gallup has had some pretty wacky outlier polls recently from what I understand from reading 538s articles.
posted by TwoWordReview at 6:14 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Shoulda previewed I guess!
posted by TwoWordReview at 6:18 PM on October 26, 2012


Yeah. Picking two polls that have recently shown demonstrable GOP bias and saying that everything else has to be interpreted in light of their assumptions is a pretty weak argument.
posted by howfar at 6:18 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


GrammarMoses: Romney as Polk.”

That article is the biggest pile of ahistorical nonsense I've ever read. Polk's expansionism led to the Civil War? Seriously? Somebody probably should have told Mr Balkin he was reading the history book upside down.
posted by koeselitz at 6:21 PM on October 26, 2012


Sure. Are you kidding? The land acquired from the Mexican-American war exploded the Missouri Compromise and rekindled the slavery controversy the MC had pretty successfully forestalled for over 20 years. There is a pretty damn direct causal chain between the Mexican American War, bloody Kansas, and Fort Sumter. It's damn near American History Survey 101 stuff.
posted by absalom at 6:29 PM on October 26, 2012


Could someone smarter than me tell me why this guy's argument doesn't hold water?
He will lose the national popular vote, and the fact that he has remained competitive to the end in the two key swing states he needs to win (Ohio and Wisconsin) will not save him.
First, Obama has not "remained competitive" --- he is projected to win WI and OH (and NV) according to most polls and, yeah, this will save him because whoever gets the electoral vote, not the popular vote, wins. Ask Al Gore. Focusing on the breakdown of independents in polls while not bothering with the overall result that shows Obama is questionable.

Second, his wall of text might deserve some fact checking. For instance, he says that,
A look at the black and Hispanic components of the electorates in the six most hotly-contested swing states suggests that the narrative of a sudden shift to a less-white, more-Obama-friendly electorate is really only an accurate description of one of the six (Nevada); even Colorado saw fewer Hispanic voters in 2008 and 2010 than in 2000 and 2004
though NALEO predicts a 15% increase of Latino voters in CO and the exit polls in 2008 showed a 44% increase in Latino voters overall.

Third, Obama has been receiving a bump ever since the second debate and even if that guy dissects two of the most pro-GOP pollsters, hips don't lie*.

*pandering to the Shakira vote.
posted by ersatz at 6:38 PM on October 26, 2012 [4 favorites]


Could someone smarter than me tell me why this guy's argument doesn't hold water?

He's a columnist on Red State. You're welcome.
posted by smithsmith at 6:39 PM on October 26, 2012 [16 favorites]


imabanana: "Could someone smarter than me tell me why this guy's argument doesn't hold water?"

I'm probably not smarter than you, but his delusional first paragraph makes it clear why his analysis is completely wrong. He's simply incorrect about independents breaking toward Romney in the important swing states and he's simply incorrect about Romney having a lead in said important swing states. At worst it's tied, but I think that understates Obama's chances. The national polls are irrelevant since we don't elect presidents based on a popular vote. What matters is the EC, and Obama has the EC right now.

It seems highly unlikely to me that Romney will win Ohio given that he has never consistently led Ohio for even one week's time. The best he's done in Ohio is to pull out a +1 on the worst polling days Obama has had this entire election cycle. That's his high water mark. If there were still a raft of undecideds, or if every poll of already-voteds didn't show Obama up significantly, I might be less confident about the outcome.
posted by wierdo at 6:45 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


To repond to imabanana, I've read the beginning of that article, but my eyes glazed over once he started posting those ridiculous charts. But from what I was able to stay away through:

"Two, to overcome losing independents by more than a few points, Obama needs to have a decisive advantage in Democratic turnout, roughly on the order of – or in some places exceeding – the advantage he enjoyed in 2008, when Democrats nationally had a 7-point advantage (39-32)." -- He assumes everyone who voted for McCain last time will vote for Romney this time. Romney is a Mormon, his past history was moderate (remember "Obamacare" HOW I LOATHE THAT TERM was based on Romney's plan), and he has an aspect of a robot about him, those things are going to drive some folks away.

"Three types of people vote: Republicans, Democrats, and Independents." He's basically applying labels to voters, trying to guess the size of each category, then multiplying that size by who they'll vote for, and by turnout. Silver is applying more straightforward math directly to poll results. Both are to some degree guessing, but Silver makes fewer guesses.

"Absent an unusually large number of party crossovers, then, there are two paths to winning an election: win the remaining, Independent voters; or turn out more of your own." That's planning strategy based on a narrative. All narratives carry with them unspoken biases; here, there is the problem that people don't label so easily, and that "Republicans" and "Democrats" are roughly equal in number. Nate Silver's numbers are valuable because they avoid narrative; he's engaging in purer math.

McLaughlin also relies a lot on Rasmussen polls, which Nate Silver himself has noted lean Republican.

"Right-wing Nate Silver" presupposes that Nate Silver is a left-wing Nate Silver, when he's been very even-handed with his reports. That the Obama campaign turned to him for poll data interpretation is a sign of neutrality, not of bias -- no campaign needs people to tell them what they want to hear.

But we should still worry even if Silver is completely right. For although he now posts nearly a 75% chance of winning for Obama, that's still a 25% chance of a Romney win. On a D20 that would be 1-5. For every three universes in which Obama wins there's one in which Romney does, and we don't get to pick which is ours.
posted by JHarris at 6:47 PM on October 26, 2012 [7 favorites]


But we should still worry even if Silver is completely right. For although he now posts nearly a 75% chance of winning for Obama, that's still a 25% chance of a Romney win. On a D20 that would be 1-5. For every three universes in which Obama wins there's one in which Romney does, and we don't get to pick which is ours.

I always think this is a misleading metaphor for the uncertainty involved in predictions based on incomplete data. The 1 in 4 chance for Romney represents what we don't know about how people will vote, not indeterminacy about how they will vote. Our universe looks much more like a mechanistic construct than that, despite its underlying uncertainty. If you could accurately simulate this piece of history over and over again, whatever is going to happen will happen close to 100% of the time. At this point in time, either Romney or Obama is actually pretty much certain to win, but we don't have enough data to tell which beyond a reasonable, but not overwhelming, expectation that it is Obama.
posted by howfar at 6:53 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Prediction: The New York Times will hire a "right-wing Nate Silver" before 2014.
posted by gerryblog at 6:58 PM on October 26, 2012


But we should still worry even if Silver is completely right. For although he now posts nearly a 75% chance of winning for Obama, that's still a 25% chance of a Romney win. On a D20 that would be 1-5. For every three universes in which Obama wins there's one in which Romney does, and we don't get to pick which is ours.

Building off what howfar said, this is indeed a bit alarmist. As I understand Nate's method: we know certain factors will impact the election, but we don't know how important each one will be. So he runs thousands of simulations giving each of these factors a different possible weight and posts the result. Obama wins 75% of these simulations at this time.

But that's not some sort of actual, empirical claim about the multiverse; it's a claim about the model. So what the 75% indicates is that the fundamentals of the race strongly favor Obama; it's not literally a claim that Mitt wins one out of four times.
posted by gerryblog at 7:06 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]




To underscore the Ohio problem for Romney, the best poll numbers he's had in the past two weeks were from Rasmussen and Gravis Marketing, the first of which has leaned R all cycle by a point or two and the second of which has leaned R all cycle by 4 to 5 points. Wisconsin, which is often brought up by right-wingers trying to justify why they think Romney has a chance, is also a long shot for Romney. Even during the Obama campaign's doldrums after the first debate Obama had a small, but clear, lead. The worst number he's gotten since August was a Rasmussen tie that came out today, which is at odds with other recent (state level) polling showing Obama having opened up a lead by a point or two since the bad old days of early October.

Also, you might note that there's been a rather large difference between polls that use live interviewers and thus can call cell phones and robopolls that are legally forbidden from doing so.

Do I think Romney simply can't win? Absolutely not, but I think that he's either going to take it in an enormous wave, which seems rather unlikely given what we know about the state of the race, or he's going to lose. I don't see a way that he pulls out a close win in the EC. Either the polls read the race wrong and Romney wins Ohio, Virginia, Colorado, Iowa, New Hampshire, and Wisconsin and he wins with 295 or the polls are correct and Obama wins with around 290.

I have to say, though, the crosstabs on the Florida polling of late are weird enough that I'm not completely writing it off yet.

As far as Gallup goes, its LV screen is far too strict. It will throw out a lot of Obama voters. I suspect that's why Gallup suddenly started trending slowly back towards Obama when early voting began. People who claim to have already voted obviously clear the likely voter screen.
posted by wierdo at 7:08 PM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


I always think this is a misleading metaphor for the uncertainty involved in predictions based on incomplete data. The 1 in 4 chance for Romney represents what we don't know about how people will vote, not indeterminacy about how they will vote.

I actually know this. A more accurate depiction of the situation than how I described it before would be: there is a reality that we won't know until election day, but the polls' measurements of it are such that it appears that Obama is 74% likely to be voted President based on the imperfect data available to us. But there is still a 26% chance that the imperfections in the data are significant and Romney will win, and that is worth concern. (I described it in those terms to make it easier to explain; I already derail my own comments quite easily, I didn't see what my point had to gain by going into the nature of polling.)
posted by JHarris at 7:11 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh I knew you knew it, it was the expression rather than your understanding I wasn't sure about. The other thing is that, as Nate Silver says himself, we don't have that much data on how good his model is at indicating its own uncertainty. We have reason to think Silver's model is good, but how good we don't know. Which adds more fear to the situation.
posted by howfar at 7:40 PM on October 26, 2012


I love you, jokeefe.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:48 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Okay, is it just me or is Romney going a lot heavier on the Grecian Formula lately?
posted by ob1quixote at 8:14 PM on October 26, 2012


It's not just you. I understand why he avoids the skunk look, though.
posted by de at 8:16 PM on October 26, 2012


What you have to understand about Nate Silver:

His model was originally developed to arbitrage sports bets. He used it to make money by beating punters at the sports books in Las Vegas. It was a novel computer-based system that used statistical information to simulate thousands of games in order to estimate the true odds, as opposed to the book odds. If you know that difference you can make money.

He realized before the 2008 election that his model could be adapted to arbitrage elections too. He is as political as the guy who lives in New Orleans, wears a Who Dat shirt every day, and bets against the Saints because the model says to.

I ran with people like him for eight years or so and paid my house off in the process.

You can lose even longshot bets, but the smart money does not bet agianst Nate Silver.
posted by localroger at 8:30 PM on October 26, 2012 [11 favorites]


Even the Intrade EV markets currently have Obama up by 281 to 257, so I really don't know if shouting about GAllup polls only until their face turns blue (red?) makes a lot of sense.
posted by Theta States at 8:35 PM on October 26, 2012


me: “Polk's expansionism led to the Civil War? Seriously?”

absalom: “Sure. Are you kidding? The land acquired from the Mexican-American war exploded the Missouri Compromise and rekindled the slavery controversy the MC had pretty successfully forestalled for over 20 years. There is a pretty damn direct causal chain between the Mexican American War, bloody Kansas, and Fort Sumter. It's damn near American History Survey 101 stuff.”

The Missouri Compromise came after the Mexican-American war, but it wasn't exploded by expansionism – it was animated by expansionism. The hope of expansionism was built into it. That hope was the only reason anybody agreed to it in the first place, right? A line drawn across the continent, two separate lands to fill in, one for the North and one for the South. If the Louisiana Purchase had never been made, if the United States had retained its 1800 borders, then the Civil War would have come before 1840 and maybe before 1820, because slavery was already even then an essential conflict – and the South would have won it.

In fact, expansionism continuously and steadily acted as a forestallment and a postponement of conflict. It was the basis of every compromise; both the Missouri Compromise and the Compromise of 1850 were based on the hope (on both sides) that expansion would either turn the country away from conflict or (it was increasingly hoped) give the right side the edge needed to win the inevitable conflict.

It was ugly and bloody, but Manifest Destiny, the conquering of the West, was a national hysteria and passion that distracted the country for a decade and a half from the disaster that was imminent. That decade and a half was decisive. If the Civil War had been fought in 1845 – and it could have been, there was enough blood lust and conflict in the air already – then the South, which though in economic decline still held its place as the wealthiest and most powerful region in the United States, would almost certainly have won. During those fifteen years, however, Northern industry was born, and the decline of the South took a turn such that the playing field was close enough to level by the time Fort Sumter was fired upon that the conflict was not a foregone conclusion.

That's how it seems to me, anyway. Without expansionism, the war would have come much sooner. Expansionism was an excuse for politicians to compromise, and more importantly a fervor that gripped society enough to pull the population away from North/South conflict. Ironic, I know – that bloody expansion postponed the Civil War and ultimately gave the North the edge it needed to win – but nonetheless true.
posted by koeselitz at 9:35 PM on October 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


Since we're talking about Manifest Destiny I'd like to remind everyone that the founding fathers really thought that Cuba should be part of the United States because we were worried that if England conquered it from Spain we'd be surrounded by Canada to the north and Cuba to the south.

This led to us getting aiding in the "liberation" of Cuba from the Spain just to hang out there for decades and decades.

Not quite on topic, but it's worth while to remember since Cuba's opening up and our politics with them are likely change radically either under Obama or the next president. Like Iran, who's internal politics we've made a mess with Kermit Roosevelt, Cuba has historical reason to be really wary of us from way back.
posted by bswinburn at 9:57 PM on October 26, 2012


The Missouri Compromise came after the Mexican-American war

Nope.
posted by DaDaDaDave at 10:08 PM on October 26, 2012


me: “The Missouri Compromise came after the Mexican-American war”

DaDaDaDave: “Nope.”

Sorry, that's a typo. That should read: "The end of the Missouri Compromise came after the Mexican-American war." absalom argued that the Mexican-American war caused the end of the Missouri Compromise; I argued that the relationship was merely chronological, not causal. Hence, in the next clause of that sentence I talked about the "explosion" of the Missouri Compromise – that was the intended subject.
posted by koeselitz at 10:37 PM on October 26, 2012


we'd be surrounded by Canada to the north and Cuba to the south.

Just like in that documentary "Red Dawn," where -- if memory serves -- the combined forces of Nicaragua and Cuba invade via Canada!
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:49 PM on October 26, 2012


we'd be surrounded by Canada to the north and Cuba to the south.

Those little overachievers! The main island is what 700 miles long, and off to the side? They must be playing zone.
posted by msalt at 10:58 PM on October 26, 2012



Those little overachievers! The main island is what 700 miles long, and off to the side? They must be playing zone.


Sure, in relationship to the modern United States, it seem ridiculous. But in regards to the thirteen colonies an island so nearby that could be the base of a permanent naval force was no joke. England, had it actually conquered/controlled Cuba, would have been in a much stronger position to set up permanent and consistent patrols to block the shipping lanes of the early USA.

Canada would have been able to set up patrols to rove from the north. Cuba from the south. I can totally understand the worry.
posted by bswinburn at 11:08 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


In all seriousness though, I wish more politicians would read Thucydides.

Monumental folly: We take Pericles’ funeral oration out of context at our peril. For a true picture of war, read Thucydides to the end
posted by homunculus at 11:13 PM on October 26, 2012 [7 favorites]


>> but the smart money does not bet agianst Nate Silver.
>   Even the Intrade EV markets currently have Obama up by 281 to 257

All very promising, then.
But how will a second Obama term break the boycott-filibustering that has dogged his first term?

Will Obama have the numbers?

If you look through (2008 - 2012) senate clotures there you'll find Obama's 21st Century (economic) reforms - FAILED, and reform policies he's campaigning on today - FAILED. Looks like Obama gets a mandate to further reform ...

... but Republicans will still play "over our dead bodies". Must it come to that?

I'm getting a broader understanding of why America is falling behind in the New World Order: too many rich American white guys, overly concerned about birth and birth certificates, wanting to preserve established supremacy where there was no basis, only the need for perpetual wars: race, gender, class, culture, creed ... other nations.

Maybe America does need another civil war.
Will it be televised this time?
posted by de at 11:52 PM on October 26, 2012


de: Will Obama have the numbers?

First, he has the fiscal cliff. You could think of it as a gun held to the Republicans' heads. He plans to use this leverage to force through a good deal of the financial reforms he's trying to get.

The post-fiscal-cliff-narrative he's pushing now is that the Republicans, after having failed to make him a one-term president, will come to their senses, and realize that they can't be obstructionist for 8 years in a row without paying a heavy political price for it. President Obama is referring to this as 'breaking the fever.'

There's some skepticism as to whether this 'breaking the fever' narrative is realistic or not. There seems to be less skepticism about whether the fiscal cliff is the kind of weapon that can be used to make the Republicans compromise, at least at the beginning of President Obama's second term.
posted by syzygy at 12:48 AM on October 27, 2012 [2 favorites]




Shopping the Constitution Around the Corner
We haven't stopped by the intersection of Insufferable Street and Otherwise Unemployable Boulevard for a while, so let's see what the gang on K-Lo's front stoop are gassing about these days.
Oh, look, it's the British kid. What's he on about then?
...
But I do agree with Little Lord Punchyface on one thing: The Constitution should not be changed on an "idle whim."
Our Mr. Brooks Dreams of Moderation
It was a quiet afternoon in the Young Fogies Club, and that suited Moral Hazard just fine. The Irish setter owned for photo-op purposes by New York Times columnist David Brooks, Moral Hazard needed a break. He'd spent an entire week trying to avoid all the celebrating occasioned by the apparent rise from the dead of a certain Willard Romney, a great favorite at the Young Fogies Club because he seemed to embody everything that the members of the Young Fogies Club believed themselves to be.
Clowns to the Left of Me, Jokers to the Right, or, Where’s a Feminist to Go?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:29 AM on October 27, 2012


Maybe America does need another civil war.
Will it be televised this time?


I know it's fun to jam on that kewl post-American vibe, but it gets old.
posted by fleacircus at 4:25 AM on October 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


Clowns to the Left of Me, Jokers to the Right, or, Where’s a Feminist to Go?

Third-to-last sentence: "I know. There’s a huge difference in degree, and in kind, here."

That's some good ol' centrist journalism, there.
posted by fleacircus at 4:35 AM on October 27, 2012 [4 favorites]


The Democrats have promised filibuster reform next time they're in charge of both houses. But it looks like the Democrats will probably come up short in the House unless there polls are undercounting votes in the other direction.
posted by gerryblog at 5:34 AM on October 27, 2012


NSA analyst proves GOP is stealing elections.

Please say it ain't so.
posted by headnsouth at 5:35 AM on October 27, 2012


NSA analyst proves GOP is stealing elections.

Please say it ain't so.


I'm not nearly math-geek enough to understand exactly what this is saying, although I think it's saying something important.

Anyone out there care to interpret this into more basic english for the liberal arts types?
posted by hippybear at 6:26 AM on October 27, 2012


Wonkette on AP poll that has Romney ahead

Worth it for the gif of the terrified adorable child clutching his chest and then weeping in terror.
posted by angrycat at 6:45 AM on October 27, 2012


I recall seeing this stuff debunked during the Republican primary. This is the same conspiracy theory, right?
posted by gerryblog at 6:50 AM on October 27, 2012


With regard to after the election & Obama's agenda, assuming he wins, I don't have any links handy, but I've heard noises that Harry Reid's ending the filibuster if Obama wins. Also, the Democrats have a small chance to win back the House, and even if they don't, (assuming Obama wins) the GOP will have a more slender majority. So there's hope.
posted by JKevinKing at 6:52 AM on October 27, 2012


This is the same conspiracy theory, right?

Which? The "conspiracy theory" that electronic voting machines may not be performing neutral counting of elections? There are doubts about this, and evidence thereof, coming from several quarters. Previously.
posted by hippybear at 6:53 AM on October 27, 2012


Ryan released a bunch of FOIA requested emails yesterday, among them a letter to Scott Walker telling him not to mention projects funded via the stimulus program.
posted by drezdn at 6:55 AM on October 27, 2012 [6 favorites]


Will the Internet Prediction Machine Change Politics?
Sometimes, poll results are so blatantly contradictory (zigzagging in the course of a single day) that even veteran political pollsters throw their hands up in despair. So is there any way that some of the most exciting advances made possible by the Internet - everything from Big Data analysis to social networking analysis - can ever create an Internet Prediction Machine capable of forecasting political results?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:10 AM on October 27, 2012


The "conspiracy theory" that electronic voting machines may not be performing neutral counting of elections? There are doubts about this, and evidence thereof, coming from several quarters.

This specific claim that this analysis of voting totals proves that votes are being flipped. This (or something very much like this) was going around during the primary and was debunked then. Here's the Randi forums debunking it now.
posted by gerryblog at 7:10 AM on October 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


NSA analyst proves GOP is stealing elections.

Choquette even saw in Maricopa County, which is Phoenix and its suburbs, that in 2008 Romney used this technique against John McCain. But McCain beat him by too much for a 10% fraud gain to matter. McCain tried to do the same thing in the general election to President Obama but 9 million votes nationally were too many to make up. (emphasis mine)
I don't understand this; it sounds like the argument people make for for a pro-sports doping tier/league, like Romney is the Lance Armstrong of politics and McCain just isn't as sophisticated a cheater. McCain would know what Romney did, but couldn't/wouldn't call him out because he was cheating, too?
Maybe someone needs to commission the Anonymous hacker group to re-level the playing field because the courts are not going to do it.
I was actually shocked at first that the author would even suggest this; now I'm thinking if there was a way to just knock out the machines -- not touching the votes or software at all -- and have states with e-voting revert to paper ballots, well, I could live with that.


The article's author posted this in the comments:
Denis G Campbell
October 26, 2012 at 11:50 am

Apologies, we have been under a DDOS attack for 13 hours now. We’re slowly coming back. Please let the world know about this attempted election theft. Thank you.
On preview:

Ryan released a bunch of FOIA requested emails yesterday, among them a letter to Scott Walker telling him not to mention projects funded via the stimulus program.

If the media did their job even a quarter of the time these fuckers would be lucky to be president of their HOA.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:16 AM on October 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


I was actually shocked at first that the author would even suggest this; now I'm thinking if there was a way to just knock out the machines -- not touching the votes or software at all -- and have states with e-voting revert to paper ballots, well, I could live with that.

Pick a smaller surefire election, say a state Senate race in county that had leaned Republican for 30 years and just blatantly flip it.

Then release the details of how it was flipped.

It make take several occurrences of doing this for change to really happen.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:35 AM on October 27, 2012


drezdn: Ryan released a bunch of FOIA requested emails yesterday, among them a letter to Scott Walker telling him not to mention projects funded via the stimulus program.
BTW, the AP received over 1,000 pages of emails between the two offices late today - which is known as a Friday news dump. Give the kids a few days to comb through all of them - we bet there might be even more gold.
Wait wait wait, the AP actually used FOIA to dig up proper news? And got a bunch of real information this past Friday? Fantastic! And Friday news dumps only work if they're convenient soundbites, because if you have to dig through material to find the newsworthy bits, the news reports are delayed. Say, until Monday morning. Hopefully. Maybe.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:36 AM on October 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


Pick a smaller surefire election, say a state Senate race in county that had leaned Republican for 30 years and just blatantly flip it.

Then release the details of how it was flipped.

It make take several occurrences of doing this for change to really happen.


Good thing actual, real voter fraud results in a "slap on the wrist" and not real jail time, otherwise there might be a dis-incentive for those wily hackers to show how fragile and stupid black box voting machines are. Australians got it (mostly) right in 2003, though their 2004 update went from open source to "controlled open source," as truly open source 1) gives away the company secrets, and 2) not all bug hunters are good guys. Still, I'm hopeful for proper implementation of eVoting machines in the vague, hand-wavy future.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:46 AM on October 27, 2012


homunculus: In all seriousness though, I wish more politicians would read Thucydides.

Monumental folly: We take Pericles’ funeral oration out of context at our peril. For a true picture of war, read Thucydides to the end
Precisely. I guess I should have said, I wish more politicians understood Thucydidies.


Re electronic voting machines

Regardless of whether or not surreptitious manipulation of votes in direct recording electronic machines is actually occurring, I am an advocate of publicly observed hand-counted paper ballots. Knowing the result before bedtime on election night is not as important as the result reflecting the actual will of the people.

v.q. How to Rig an Election [Subscription Only. Sorry.], Victoria Collier, Harper's Magazine, November, 2012
posted by ob1quixote at 8:16 AM on October 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


gerrysblog, good find on that debunking. +1
posted by JHarris at 8:17 AM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


Republican National Lawyers Association has a nice round-up of actual cases of voter fraud, with fraud from identified Republicans, Democrats, and individuals without specific party affiliation, and a wide range of sentences and penalties for individuals.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:25 AM on October 27, 2012


Princeton Election Consortium gives Obama a 97% chane of winning as of this morning.
posted by futz at 8:36 AM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


While I've no way of commenting on the numbers there, I think that the underlying assumption (that opinion will tend to drift toward its historical average) is a fairly sound one. It's no reason to relax, of course, there are a number of potential oddities about this election (as about any election) that could render the model inaccurate.

What I think we can say, at this point, is that if participation and the electoral process itself are fairly typical of other presidential elections, Obama has a significant advantage. The problem is, of course, that we don't really know how big that "if" is.
posted by howfar at 8:46 AM on October 27, 2012


Just a couple of in-between updates on numbers in various places.

The Rand American Life Panel hit an all-time high of 50.56% reporting that they will vote for Obama, yesterday. It climbed again today to a new high of 50.93%. The 'intention to vote' measure for Obama voters has also reached its highest point for this election period.

Intrade, meanwhile, has Obama's chances of winning back up to the 63-64% range, after a few days of weird and wild swings that saw his numbers dip as low as the mid 50s.

And, on a personal note, I just entered the contest to enjoy election night in Chicago with the president again, by sending in another contribution today. It's quick and painless at contribute.barackobama.com .
posted by syzygy at 8:54 AM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


If this Frankenstorm hits like it's currently projected to, there are going to be a LOT of people still without power on Election Day. Ugh.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:02 AM on October 27, 2012




Sandy is going to be the October surprise.

Not having power on Election Day is going to throw everything into a snafu, there's no projection or poll for that. People could be pissed off that their county isn't getting help to restore power for their homes, let alone voting and that could flip their national vote.

This could get scary interesting.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:13 AM on October 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


I actually hope this is not a joke and that this is how desperate "people" are getting

From the Vice interview with the source: "And who knows where America starts and ends. Like if Obama was born in a NASA space shuttle… would that mean he wasn’t really American?"

And then there's the video.

I presume you're joking though. But....it's been a long election.
posted by howfar at 9:20 AM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


People could be pissed off that their county isn't getting help to restore power for their homes, let alone voting and that could flip their national vote.

I would hope at that point that "smaller government...how does that idea sound right about now?" runs through their head, since Mitt and his buddies are so damned eager to cut government services down to bare bones, "a friend's uncle and a truck will be by in a few weeks, wait in line, sorry" levels. And they realize they need to vote Obama/Biden.
posted by cashman at 9:28 AM on October 27, 2012 [5 favorites]


People could be pissed off that their county isn't getting help to restore power for their homes, let alone voting and that could flip their national vote.

I would hope at that point that "smaller government...how does that idea sound right about now?" runs through their head, since Mitt and his buddies are so damned eager to cut government services down to bare bones, "a friend's uncle and a truck will be by in a few weeks, wait in line, sorry" levels. And they realize they need to vote Obama/Biden.
I'm afraid that the reaction is more likely to be "If the current big government is so great, how come it took a week to get my power back? It's way too inefficient, we should just gut it."
posted by dfan at 9:34 AM on October 27, 2012


Homunculus: GOP Accuses Obama of Ties to Satan Over Lena Dunham Campaign Ad.

Holy crap. One smart, irrevernt young woman with a sense of humor, and the whole of the GOtP is ready to go to blazes and Rapture itself with Armageddon and devil-sightings, and the propagation of Satan-worship happening right here and right now and run for your lives Jeebus-luvers of the one and only true way...RUN FOR YOUR BLEEDIN' LIVES!!!

It's equal parts bullshit and manipulation of manipulable boy-men in their senior years, who still live in the 50s.
posted by Skygazer at 9:36 AM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


I don't think that there is any predictable hurricane effect. It depends on specific damage, individual experience, community response, perception of government response, effectiveness of that response, media narrative, access to voting facilities and a host of other known unknowns, in addition to the unknown ones. There's just no point in speculating about how it might affect the election.

The only thing to do is just hope that everyone can stay safe and disregard it as an electoral concern.
posted by howfar at 9:38 AM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


From the Vice interview with the source: "And who knows where America starts and ends. Like if Obama was born in a NASA space shuttle… would that mean he wasn’t really American?"

Oh jeez, I lost track and forgot I wasn't even on the Vice site; I didn't even see their interview! Long election season, indeed.

Here, have some preschoolers fighting over Romney and Obama. (Includes what may be the best YT comment ever: Is the girl with the chair Clint Eastwood?)
posted by Room 641-A at 9:41 AM on October 27, 2012 [4 favorites]


Maybe the hurricane could help the dems, if people remember a previous big hurricane disaster?
posted by inigo2 at 9:42 AM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


Here, have some preschoolers fighting over Romney and Obama

That's awful and hilarious.

"Mitt Romney win!" (throws brick at head)

That kid has pretty much got young Willard summed up.
posted by howfar at 9:47 AM on October 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


I finally watched the Lena Dunham ad this morning and have to say - That's it? That's what folks are upset about?

If you're gonna get offended then Reagan's version of the same joke is far worse. She goes for the 'it should be special' angle but Reagan's phrasing focused on the physical. But still, really?
posted by TwoWordReview at 9:58 AM on October 27, 2012


Here, have some preschoolers fighting over Romney and Obama

Another gem: "This is exactly what my facebook feed sounds like in my head."
posted by dirigibleman at 10:07 AM on October 27, 2012 [7 favorites]


Have their been postings of religious prophecies in regards to hurricane Sandy, and the potential re-election of the great Barack Satan Obama?
posted by Theta States at 10:24 AM on October 27, 2012


Barack Satan Obama

We usually simplify that to the Irish "Barack O'Satan."
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:30 AM on October 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


I think a good collective blargahfuck like Sandy will be good for the nation's soul and therefore maybe hinder some of our baser instincts that make us vote against our interests.
posted by angrycat at 10:50 AM on October 27, 2012


Republican National Lawyers Association has a nice round-up of actual cases of voter fraud, with fraud from identified Republicans, Democrats, and individuals without specific party affiliation, and a wide range of sentences and penalties for individuals.

Of course they do.

But then, voter fraud isn't exactly the same as election manipulation at the level of the vote-counting machines, is it?

I'll accept that the NSA analyst thing may be wrong -- I'm not mathematically sophisticated enough to really understand either the assertion or the debunking.

That doesn't mean I trust black box election machines, either. Neither the touchscreen nor the ballot scanning machines have a clear enough honest track record (and in some cases have actual negative evidence against them) for me to feel comfortable.
posted by hippybear at 11:41 AM on October 27, 2012


post-election strategy

1) Balls to the wall on the fiscal cliff. If played right, Obama can expose Republican mule-headedness, advocate for the middle class, and at worst he ends up with repeal of Bush tax cuts and big defense cutbacks.

2) Then immediately have the Senate pass a middle-class tax cut restoring the worst of the defense cuts, take it or leave it.

3) Harry Reid reforms the filibuster. Dems fill up the judiciary and other appointments.

4) Dems go on offense to divide and conquer --a consititutional amendment that corporations are not people and money is not speech, global warming, legalize gay marriage, legalize pot, . My favorite idea: reintroduce the Equal Rights Amendment (for women, you young 'uns).

5) Obamacare is entrenched, use inevitable problems to pivot to single-payer health care.

6) execute withdrawal from Afghanistan and general troop cutbacks.

7) solve global warming, reform grazing rights, electoral college reform, campaign finance reform (now legal again after constitutional amendment passes), protect voting rights.

8) Prosecute BUsh administration officials for war crimes. Government arts subsidies for palindromists and comedians.

OK, #8 might be a tad optimistic.
posted by msalt at 11:42 AM on October 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


The Forward Song
posted by madamjujujive at 11:53 AM on October 27, 2012


WASHINGTON (AP) — Racial attitudes have not improved in the four years since the United States elected its first black president, an Associated Press poll finds, as a slight majority of Americans now express prejudice toward blacks whether they recognize those feelings or not.

No way! I'm shocked, I tell you.
posted by rtha at 11:55 AM on October 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


Not as shocked as Camille Paglia, who is apparently stunned and disappointed that Obama isn't a wizard.
posted by howfar at 11:58 AM on October 27, 2012


The Forward Song yt

TAKE THE 'R' TRAIN
posted by homunculus at 12:08 PM on October 27, 2012 [5 favorites]


That's fucking insane homunculus.
posted by howfar at 12:13 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


Most of what thirdeaglebooks creates is fucking insane. I wish he'd get some meds.
posted by hippybear at 12:15 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yeah. It does make me a little sad, thinking about it. While I'm all for accepting and celebrating diversity, clicking through a few of those videos it seems like it must be a lonely furrow he's ploughing.
posted by howfar at 12:21 PM on October 27, 2012




headnsouth: "
It just infuriates me that people have so much money that they can throw around a lot of people's full-year's salary on a whim ... and they use it to skew elections in their favor. I don't get it.
"

Fortunately, elections aren't decided by InTrade...
posted by pwnguin at 12:27 PM on October 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


So.... the scuttlebutt seems to be Romney campaign is going to shift focus to WI away from OH in this last week. I was wondering what that ad buy in MN earlier this week was about, sounds like it's to bleed over into Western WI
posted by edgeways at 12:40 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


IA, MN, WI seems like a big ask if he's conceding OH. It gets him there, but it's a huge hill to run up.
posted by howfar at 12:52 PM on October 27, 2012


1) Balls to the wall on the fiscal cliff. If played right, Obama can expose Republican mule-headedness, advocate for the middle class, and at worst he ends up with repeal of Bush tax cuts and big defense cutbacks.

Yup, the worst case here (assuming Obama gets a second term of course) may be bad politics but still good for the country/deficit. Also since the bush tax cuts and the defense cuts kick in on the 1st Jan , they have a whole year to tweak the tax code to avoid hitting the poorest folks with the tax increase (though sooner would be better so that monthly or weekly wages don't see too much of a drop)
posted by TwoWordReview at 12:53 PM on October 27, 2012


I had a rather disturbing conversation over breakfast with someone who is intimately familiar with the national polling environment (an expert who, for example, had to explain a few things to Nate Silver when he first switched from baseball to politics, like the peculiar status of Alaska and Hawaii in national polls). This person gave a really detailed explanation of some of the causes of the variability in polling results that we've seen. I mean I knew there were differences based on whether the pollster used cell phones or land lines, and whether they had bilingual polling, but I didn't realize the extent of pure guesswork that goes into creating the various models. Basically, since all legitimate polling operations understand that their samples don't (can't) accurately represent the population, they have to correct for perceived systematic bias. But they don't know exactly how much, for instance, the samples underrepresent voters in various categories, so they have to guesstimate the coefficients they use (read: they basically pull them out of their ass).

As I said, this person is intimately and actively involved with the world of polling and political communication. As someone deeply invested in rigorous research and analysis, s/he* is concerned. S/he is even more concerned as an Obama supporter, because the corrective factors are mostly weighted in favor of populations believed to lean Democratic (blacks, Latinos, young people, etc.). I was living abroad and not following U.S. politics that closely, but apparently the polls were way off in 1996, and the fear is that, this time around, that kind of point discrepancy could easily mean the difference between a Romney or Obama victory.

Add in the hurricane factor and the questions about voter suppression and potential fraud, and this expert isn't sleeping too well these days. And after our conversation, I'm not, either.

*I hate to be so cagey, but my pseudonymity is shaky at best, and since this was a private conversation I don't want to publicly out my source. If you can't live without knowing, MeMail me.
posted by Superplin at 1:07 PM on October 27, 2012 [8 favorites]


Edgeways: So.... the scuttlebutt seems to be Romney campaign is going to shift focus to WI away from OH in this last week. I was wondering what that ad buy in MN earlier this week was about, sounds like it's to bleed over into Western WI

Yeah, saw that as well, and it makes me wonder if this was the Romney longterm plan all along, or plan B or C being enacted here. More scuttlebutt's saying the Romney camp is playing coy about this move, because last thing they want is for the idea that they're conceding Ohio and leaving it to get out there. I remember four years ago how damning it became as McCain began to give up on certain states and try on focus on more winnable combinations. It really looks bad. And they didn't play it as close to the vest as these guys are, but going for a Wisconsin strategy and the Obama camp hitting on that will hurt Romster pretty bad in the public eye. Ohioian's will bleed away from Romney flipping him the bird all the way, especially because it's so easy to imagine ROmney saying to his people:

"I can't worry about Ohio. It's going to OBAMA. Those Ohioans will never care for, or take responsibility for their lives...."

[How deadly would that be...hehehehe...]

Other thing is, what's Harry going to be up to in the next week or so? Is Reid gonna deliver the goods on Romney's damning tax returns pre-2010, or was he full of hot air? I'd like to believe Harry's not bluffing and that Harry's packin' a serious hand and is just waiting for the right timing. But one does wonder here.

I guess it Harry made it more apparent it wouldn't have the necessary effect, right?

Another thing is that footage of that small town teacher saying, Romney scolded her with "I wasn't asking you a question..." as well as Romney being a total dick during the debates, there's the one that made the audience gasp when he told the POTUS he'd "get his chance.." but there was also an especially vicious and officious and nasty, nasty "Excuse me!" during the third debate, when he was lying about something and Obama tried to get a word in edgewise, that sent a chill up my spine with how viscious and cold, and horrible it was in it's sense of power and entitlement. Simply looping it and presenting that horrid cruelty in his voice it as an ad could devastate Mr. Doosh-Meister of the Universe...


One last thing, and that is, Wisconsin is a scary fucking state, after electing Walker, and re-electing him, I honestly don't understand why a state that would give such a second win to that utter KOCH_peon asshole, will vote for Obama...

I mean, who the fuck would vote for Walker and then turn around and vote for Obama??
posted by Skygazer at 1:19 PM on October 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


Superplin while what you're saying is totally scary, it's not actually anything we didn't know. One reason that Gallup is scewing so hard Romney since it moved to likely voter is that its assumptions about ethnicity of turnout are closer to the ones worrying you and your friend. Like I say, very scary, but already factored into my fears, at least.
posted by howfar at 1:29 PM on October 27, 2012


Thing is, if people on Metafilter are hearing scuttlebutt about Romney shifting to a Wisconsin strategy you can bet the Obama camp heard it weeks ago. They aren't infallible, obviously, but they are very very good at that sort of micro campaigning. So we can be pretty sure they're ready for such an eventuality.
posted by Justinian at 1:30 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


I do know that the Twin Cities, with a lot of TV overlap into western Wisconsin, have abruptly started getting carpet-bombed with Romney ads. It's considerably less than pleasant.

(although the ads for the house races in MN-6 and MN-8 are a couple of orders of magnitude worse)
posted by COBRA! at 1:34 PM on October 27, 2012


.....as well as the hateful and disgusting Vote Yes ads.

TAKE THE 'R' TRAIN

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK
posted by triggerfinger at 1:47 PM on October 27, 2012


I mean, who the fuck would vote for Walker and then turn around and vote for Obama

Well... it was an off year election, a lot of shit happened that year, not confined to WI. Hell the longest serving Congressman(Oberstar) was defeated by someone who had no experience whatsoever. and then in the WI recall election there where a lot of folks who disliked the process.

Mitts got a big hill to climb if he wants to win WI and needs other hard wins as well... and yeah I'm sure team Obama is aware of it.
posted by edgeways at 1:53 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm so glad we don't have to face significant tv advertising for politicians here in the UK. I think I would crack up.
posted by knapah at 1:57 PM on October 27, 2012


homunculus: TAKE THE 'R' TRAIN

howfar: That's fucking insane homunculus.

Context: That's William Tapley, host of Revelation Unraveled, aka Third Eagle of the Apocalypse, and Co Prophet of the End Times, who also sang another (two!) songs for Mitt, and was featured in Mysteries of the Ancient Unknown - 2012 End of Times on the Colbert Report, specifically for his Denver Airport conspiracy theories.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:05 PM on October 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


Howfar, I realize it's nothing new. But before, I could tell myself I was just being paranoid, and allow myself to be soothed by the illusion of rationality and the cool confidence Nate Silver and Sam Wang clearly place in their aggregators. But to hear someone so intimately involved with the whole polling enterprise and with such expertise on their methodologies basically say that polling data are useless as predictors (they may be accurate, but if they are, it'll be largely by dumb luck) shattered my fragile optimistic worldview.

So of course I immediately needed to share it with everyone on this thread. You're welcome.

(I have to give a talk first thing on the morning of the 7th, which is probably for the best, because otherwise I'd probably be heavily self-medicating on election night.)
posted by Superplin at 2:05 PM on October 27, 2012


syzygy: "There seems to be less skepticism about whether the fiscal cliff is the kind of weapon that can be used to make the Republicans compromise, at least at the beginning of President Obama's second term."

If he can't get what he wants, he mostly gets what he wants by default. That's the (possibly unintentional) genius.

gerryblog: "This specific claim that this analysis of voting totals proves that votes are being flipped. This (or something very much like this) was going around during the primary and was debunked then. Here's the Randi forums debunking it now."

Eh, there are two reasons I don't fully buy the debunking. First, according to the papers (I'm in the process of verifying this), most elections do not show the same trend. Secondly, there's clearly a positive slope to the Romney data in his scatter plot. Basically, I don't believe the claim yet because I haven't verified it myself and I also don't believe the debunking. Once I get the effing plotting library I'm trying to use working, I'll be able to generate a crap ton of these graphs in any way you like. ;)
posted by wierdo at 2:09 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


So.... the scuttlebutt seems to be Romney campaign is going to shift focus to WI away from OH in this last week

Is there a source for this?
posted by Theta States at 2:14 PM on October 27, 2012




superplin: I was living abroad and not following U.S. politics that closely, but apparently the polls were way off in 1996, and the fear is that, this time around, that kind of point discrepancy could easily mean the difference between a Romney or Obama victory.

Yeah, if I want to hear a vehement argument between my poll geek friends, I bring up 1996. My understanding is that 1996 had volatility factors (notably Perot) that are absent this time around. From what I gather, only one polling operation was outlandishly wrong, but most other polls were reasonably close. However, a lot of polling experts were shook that a respected pollster, in this case Quinnipac University Polling Institute, could be that wrong. My impression is that the magnitude of the wrongness has been somewhat overemphasized since. They were wrong, but they weren't crazy wrong. This time around, there's no reason to think the electorate will be quite as volatile. That said, I'm no expert, and whole academic professions sometimes get their object of study completely wrong (*cough cough cough* economists *cough*).
posted by Kattullus at 2:20 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


I can't see why they would be trying to leave OH and focus on Wisconsin. Even Rasmussen has a tie there, and Nate Silver thinks their polls are off quite a bit. And there's virtually no path to a win without Ohio.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:20 PM on October 27, 2012


This time around, there's no reason to think the electorate will be quite as volatile.

I have no desire to be the thread's Cassandra (not least for my own sanity), but I just wanted to point out that the aforementioned expert noted that the cell phone factor alone introduces a high degree of potential sampling error that didn't really come into play in '96, along with other aspects of today's communication environment and political climate that influence how likely people are to a) be included in a sample, and b) respond to a poll.

That said, I now plan to forget all about this morning's conversation and lull myself back into my previous state of only-slightly-uneasy complacency.
posted by Superplin at 2:45 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


I have no idea, but maybe the internal Romney polls are awful, so they're going for Wisconsin to provide some cover for Ryan. If he can keep his house seat and/or the ticket wins WI, Ryan will be in a better place for 2016 than he would be as a two-time loser.

Of course, given Romney's monstrous ego, this is really a hell of a lot of speculation on my part that he would give up OH for Ryan's sake. The state would have to be plunging through the floor for him to even consider that, and I don't think there really is that huge a gap.
posted by maudlin at 2:48 PM on October 27, 2012


Re: Scuttlebutt on Romney camp switching focus to WI.

Is there a source for this?
posted by Theta States at 5:14 PM


Via HuffPo: Wisconsin Becomes the New Ohio


{}

posted by Skygazer at 2:55 PM on October 27, 2012


TAKE THE 'R' TRAIN

Seems Blue train was too hard to be spoofed.
posted by ersatz at 2:57 PM on October 27, 2012


The idea is that if Rom can get Wisconsin, Virginia, North Carolina, Colorado, and New Hampshire he'd have 271 EV's.
posted by Skygazer at 2:59 PM on October 27, 2012


IA+WI plus some combination of VA, FL, CO, MN, NH is just straight up conceding.

Eh, there are two reasons I don't fully buy the debunking. First, according to the papers (I'm in the process of verifying this), most elections do not show the same trend. Secondly, there's clearly a positive slope to the Romney data in his scatter plot. Basically, I don't believe the claim yet because I haven't verified it myself and I also don't believe the debunking. Once I get the effing plotting library I'm trying to use working, I'll be able to generate a crap ton of these graphs in any way you like. ;)

I don't think you need to waste your time trying to manipulate numbers in random ways to confirm that Romney tried to cheat against McCain in McCain's home state during the 2008 Republican primary, only to then give the same technique to McCain to use against Obama in the general. No one interested in stealing elections would bother to use it in the Republican primary in Arizona in 2008.

That the math is nonsense is a bonus. You can't determine anything from the order in which you count votes.
posted by gerryblog at 3:00 PM on October 27, 2012


The idea is that if Rom can get Wisconsin, Virginia, North Carolina, Colorado, and New Hampshire he'd have 271 EV's.

Ah, I see that one now. That's still basically conceding. He can't fight everywhere simultaneously, when Obama only has to win one of them. It might happen, but it's a huge upward cllmb.
posted by gerryblog at 3:03 PM on October 27, 2012


TAKE THE 'R' TRAIN

That guy is clearly on the 'B' train to BONKERSVILLE.
posted by Skygazer at 3:04 PM on October 27, 2012


gerryblog: "That the math is nonsense is a bonus. You can't determine anything from the order in which you count votes."

True, but that's just the most straightforward way to look for unusual correlations between precinct size and vote share. The scatter plot posted on the thread you linked also appeared (visually) to show a correlation as well. And why the heck wouldn't you test run your vote flipping virus or whatever in an election where the winner is preordained? Nobody will look very closely.
posted by wierdo at 3:07 PM on October 27, 2012


Just to speculate out of my ass, if they are moving to shore up WI as a win for Ryan's sake, thus crowning him as the 2016 Golden Boy, maybe that is tied into the fact that Romney's no longer available for interviews.
posted by angrycat at 3:08 PM on October 27, 2012


Just to speculate out of my ass, if they are moving to shore up WI as a win for Ryan's sake, thus crowning him as the 2016 Golden Boy, maybe that is tied into the fact that Romney's no longer available for interviews.

I had assumed it was simply because Romney speaking off the cuff is horribly risky and they are trying to avoid any more $10K bets or rape comments this close to the election.
posted by hippybear at 3:12 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


True, but that's just the most straightforward way to look for unusual correlations between precinct size and vote share.

But you don't need to resort to conspiracy to explain why larger precinct size might be correlated with Romney voters in the 2012 Republican primary. There's a thousand reasons that might be the case. Neither voters nor precincts are distributed randomly across the state; they're chunked. To find "unusual" correlations you'd have to do meta-analysis of districts across the country and/or across election years; you can't figure out anything meaningful here.

It's pseudo-statistics calculated to mislead.

And why the heck wouldn't you test run your vote flipping virus or whatever in an election where the winner is preordained? Nobody will look very closely.

We've been hearing these breathless assertions that Republicans have been using vote-swapping methods for 12 years now. But now this was the test run?
posted by gerryblog at 3:14 PM on October 27, 2012


Data Points: Mobile Election Can your phone predict your vote?, Lucia Moses, Ad Week, 17 October, 2012
posted by ob1quixote at 3:39 PM on October 27, 2012


New Hampshire? Really? I figured NH to be pretty blue. I can see trying to get NC and Virginia but New Hampshire?

At any rate, early voting has already started in WI so they have left it a little late.

Romney has canceled his Virginia rallies because of Sandy and will go to Ohio instead.

Meanwhile Obama was in New Hampshire today.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:44 PM on October 27, 2012


As I said, I remain unconvinced, but I don't think it's outlandish. Anyway, I finally got the damn thing working well enough to spit out some graphs for this year's Republican primary in Oklahoma.

I ran one set the way the people claiming fraud would like, while the other graphs the candidate's vote share per precinct. Obviously the latter has a lot more noise in it, but in certain counties there's still an apparent anomaly.
posted by wierdo at 3:46 PM on October 27, 2012




At any rate, early voting has already started in WI so they have left it a little late.

I keep seeing this sentiment expressed and I don't really understand it. Are there really significant numbers of people who are decided enough for one candidate to early-vote, but who hear some bit of campaigning and are like, "Damn! I should have voted for the other guy!" Or am I misunderstanding something?

My impression is that winning presidential elections is not a process that involves convincing Republicans to vote for the Democratic candidate, or vice versa. "Undecided voters" are largely not deciding between the candidates - they're usually just unplugged from the process entirely. So the trick is to wake up undecided voters that will vote for you if they think about it.
posted by muddgirl at 4:19 PM on October 27, 2012


(Oh and of course also to convince your base that it's worth it to get off their butts and vote/volunteer)
posted by muddgirl at 4:20 PM on October 27, 2012


Oh brother. As if talking about rape is not backwards enough now we have a Republican congressman sniping at working moms.
This isn’t the politically correct thing to say, but when we drove the mother out of the home into the workplace and replaced her with the television set, that was not a good thing.
So working moms have abandoned their children to TVs? That makes no sense to anyone who has actually been a mom or a working mom. If you decide (or are economically forced) to work outside the home you don't abandon your child to the TV for god's sake. Chances are you have put your child into day care where they have all sorts of educational and enrichment opportunities, or you have left your children with your mother and/or their father. Has there been any study showing that children with working moms watch more TV than children with stay at home moms?

Of course there is the whole question of welfare moms. The Republican party wants them out working, so I am curious as to why middle class mom working = bad/ lower class mom working = good?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:24 PM on October 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


Ah, I see that one now. That's still basically conceding. He can't fight everywhere simultaneously, when Obama only has to win one of them. It might happen, but it's a huge upward cllmb.

I'm skeptical about the OH news, but if it's true, that's actually reason for real concern, because that means Romney's internal polling (which tends to be much better than public polling) is saying he has very good numbers in other states that equal 270+. In the end, though, I doubt they're going to give up OH because it's such a linchpin for GOP presidential candidates that the appearance of conceding could depress turnout in other close states, much like it did for McCain in 2008.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:26 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


zombieflanders: I'm skeptical about the OH news, but if it's true, that's actually reason for real concern

Not sure I buy it. They've been fighting over Ohio for months, and the numbers aren't moving. Do you spend your last 10 days trying to figure out how to get those numbers to move if you haven't been successful, so far, or do you go for a bold plan B and hope it works better than your plan A, which obviously doesn't seem to be doing the trick?

Gotta say, you're the first person I've seen who's put that sort of spin on the OH/WI news.
posted by syzygy at 4:29 PM on October 27, 2012


that means Romney's internal polling (which tends to be much better than public polling) is saying he has very good numbers in other states that equal 270+

Or it means Ohio's a lost cause and they're trying for a big score anywhere else. Earlier last week a few pundits were advising him to put everything in Pennsylvania on the grounds that a longshot like flipping there was his only chance.
posted by gerryblog at 4:31 PM on October 27, 2012


I actually take this "that doesn't make sense" talk as a good sign. I remember in past months there was news like this that seemed like it was a sign of giving up on Romney's part, and it was good news. And in 2008, I remember the same thing happening with McCain. Guess we'll see what actually happens.
posted by cashman at 4:41 PM on October 27, 2012


Via HuffPo: Wisconsin Becomes the New Ohio

Any sources on Romney abandoning Ohio that aren't Huffington? ;)
posted by Theta States at 4:41 PM on October 27, 2012


Any sources on Romney abandoning Ohio that aren't Huffington? ;)

I don't know how true the Romney-switches-from-Ohio to Wisconsin as the state-to-flip is, but when the recent Fox News headline is all "Romney doesn't necessarily need Ohio to win election", that starts to tell you something.
posted by cashman at 4:46 PM on October 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


Theta States: I've seen some chatter in 538's twitter feed mentioning it. Romney has bought ad time in Minneapolis, with the explanation that it's actually targeted at Wisconsin, next door. And there's Romney's new ExpandTheMap.com site (don't want to link to it).
posted by syzygy at 4:46 PM on October 27, 2012


Ah yes, and I saw a headline that had Rove claiming "there are 11 ways for Romney to win without Ohio."

When the Romney campaign announced ExpandTheMap.com in the past couple of days, the tweet responses were along the lines of 'ExpandTheMap.com aka WeLostOhio.com'.

So, not solid, and what I've read states that the Romney campaign would not want to admit to abandoning Ohio, officially, but there are certainly some interesting signs that suggest something's afoot.
posted by syzygy at 4:49 PM on October 27, 2012


Ohio has (by my count) at least twice the number of electoral votes as Wisconsin. Then again, trying to hit Wisconsin (and Iowa) with ads in Minnesota might make sense.
posted by drezdn at 4:58 PM on October 27, 2012


By your count? I'm not sure I understand? Ohio has 18. Wisconsin has 10.
posted by Justinian at 5:00 PM on October 27, 2012


I miscounted.
posted by drezdn at 5:06 PM on October 27, 2012 [6 favorites]


One last thing, and that is, Wisconsin is a scary fucking state, after electing Walker, and re-electing him, I honestly don't understand why a state that would give such a second win to that utter KOCH_peon asshole, will vote for Obama...

IIRC, exit polls showed a majority of the recall electorate favoring Obama even as they re-elected Walker, so there's at least some crossover vote there. I think a lot of people were just sick of all the recalls and/or unwilling to take the drastic step of removing Walker, even if they disagreed with him.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:42 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


Des Moines Register endorses Romney, the first Republican to get their endorsement since Nixon in '72.

This after the off-the-record, on-the-record interview discussed upthread.

But they also endorsed Kerry in '04, and we all know how that turned out.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:08 PM on October 27, 2012


From the Des Moines Register's endorsement of Romney:
Which candidate could forge the compromises in Congress to achieve these goals? When the question is framed in those terms, Mitt Romney emerges the stronger candidate.
Highly debateable. I don't see Harry Reid and Mitt Romney getting along at all, but even more importantly, it would seem the Register has chosen to completely turn a blind eye to record-setting unabashed obstructionism by the GOP, turn a blind eye to the GOP putting power ahead of the good of the country. Turn a blind eye to the real benefits from the ACA, turn a blind eye to a president who'd overload the Supreme Court with more Federalist activist textualist judges who'll put political leanings ahead of the real needs of the country. Turn a blind eye to the GOP's unseemly inability to treat women as equals...and where is the proof that Romney can create meaningful jobs with as they write "a future"?

Nowhere is where. Romney won't go into the details of any of his plans and is at the end of the day beholden, not to the middle class but the billionaires who're putting millions into his campaign.

The Des Moines Register really really dropped the ball here, and I cannot help thinking they're hoping to get a good chunk of that Koch and Adelson money just waiting to begin an onslaught of ad-buying, if it hasn't already, that is.

So this just stinks to high heaven, especially because, wow, their last endorsement of a Republican was Richard Nixon.

And that certainly turned out pretty swell, eh? (lolz..)

GMAFB with this nonsense.
posted by Skygazer at 6:27 PM on October 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


If I was a candidate, I'd rather be 2-3 points ahead in states that give me 290-300 EV than have the endorsement of the DMR with less than 10 days to go.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:35 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


Or as someone put it on Twitter: "Winning the DMR endorsement was crucial for 2008's Iowa caucus winner, President Hillary Clinton."
posted by zombieflanders at 6:36 PM on October 27, 2012 [6 favorites]


Newspaper endorsements are of enormous importance. To newspapers. It's so cute they think they still matter.
posted by Justinian at 6:46 PM on October 27, 2012 [4 favorites]


current endorsement standings:
Obama with 23, 6.98 million circulation
Romney with 18, 3.68 million circulation.
posted by Theta States at 6:48 PM on October 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


Newspaper endorsements are of enormous importance. To newspapers. It's so cute they think they still matter.

Mind you, they haven't quite been replaced by blog endorsements yet...
posted by Theta States at 6:49 PM on October 27, 2012


How is the MeFi-endorsed candidate picked?
posted by ersatz at 6:52 PM on October 27, 2012



Mind you, they haven't quite been replaced by blog endorsements yet...


They've been replaced by your friend's endorsements on Facebook.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:10 PM on October 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


Obama on Facebook:
31,493,507 likes · 2,923,249 talking about this

Romney on Facebook:
11,130,700 likes · 3,321,073 talking about this

I guess that decides it.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:27 PM on October 27, 2012


Mind you, they haven't quite been replaced by blog endorsements yet...

They've been replaced by your friend's endorsements on Facebook.


Or the pseudo-endorsements due to unintentionally liking a Romney-related app/page/whatnot. I've seen two people who "like" Obama on Facebook, including one guy involved with on-the-ground work for the Obama campaign, who Facebook say "like" Romney.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:31 PM on October 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


How is the MeFi-endorsed candidate picked?

Like this comment to endorse Obama. Flag this comment to endorse Romney.
posted by drezdn at 7:31 PM on October 27, 2012 [5 favorites]


Two points regarding social media: Obama has been POTUS for four years, and was campaigning before that. Romney is an up-and-comer, by comparison. And the number of people on Facebook and Twitter discussing the candidates don't distinguish between anger/ disdain/ mockery and general support, which cuts both ways.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:33 PM on October 27, 2012


Romney is an up-and-comer, by comparison.

This does him a disservice, he's been campaigning since 2003.
posted by howfar at 7:39 PM on October 27, 2012 [10 favorites]


I don't want to be petulant, but the reasons behind that Des Moines Register endorsement are just nonsense. After saying that Obama did the right thing by pushing the stimulus, they throw him under the bus with absolutely idiotic and incoherent blather such as the following.

On consumer confidence and increased production and hiring:
That should come with Mitt Romney in the White House.
On job growth under a Romney administration:
That formula, coupled with his business acumen, should unlock this nation’s economic potential.
My favorite though was this part, on Romney's moderation:
that is believable if the real Mitt Romney is the one on display as governor of Massachusetts who passed a health care reform plan that became the model for the one passed by Congress.
I know Romney has a lot to do on Day One, but I hope the Des Moines Register doesn't think that he won't get around eventually to trying to repeal Obamacare. After all, Romney will have right-wingers and his plutocrat friends to thank for his election, not the "sensible" Des Moines Register.
posted by Bokmakierie at 7:57 PM on October 27, 2012


On consumer confidence and increased production and hiring:
That should come with Mitt Romney in the White House.

If there's a Romney in the White House our household won't be spending a damn thing because we'll be squirreling away what we can for the pending clusterfuck.
posted by Talez at 8:22 PM on October 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


the pending clusterfuck.

Good name for a bad band that.
posted by howfar at 8:25 PM on October 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney vetoed 800 plus bills when gov, 700 plus of those got overridden. Like everything else about mittens the story of a moderate Romney is a fiction
posted by edgeways at 9:36 PM on October 27, 2012 [5 favorites]




David Brin: Do the U.S. 2012 elections reflect the Fermi Paradox? The empty Galaxy?
These two scenarios, which may seriously winnow down the number of visible galactic civilizations -- and might soon do the same to us -- are:
1. Bad governance leads to Big Mistakes
2. Most tech species slump into the same social attractor state that snared 99% of human cultures.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:51 AM on October 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


That formula, coupled with his business acumen, should unlock this nation’s economic potential.

Des Moines Register, way to use the word unlock in a sense normally reserved to video games hiding features away from people who bought the game unless they pony up for DLC. "Vote for Romney and play as Catwoman in a rubber suit!"

Comments like this tend to occur when I browse Metafilter first thing after waking up.
posted by JHarris at 6:55 AM on October 28, 2012 [6 favorites]


cashman: " I don't know how true the Romney-switches-from-Ohio to Wisconsin as the state-to-flip is, but when the recent Fox News headline is all "Romney doesn't necessarily need Ohio to win election", that starts to tell you something."

Right, and if for some strange reason you don't think Fox News' marching orders are a perfect proxy for what the Romney campaign is thinking, Romney advisor Avik Roy was on Chris Hayes' show this morning with the same "Wisconsin plus New Hampshire plus Virginia plus North Carolina plus One Of Maine's EVs plus a partridge plus a pear tree" path to victory spiel. It's true that Ohio has stabilized to a 2% or so Obama advantage, but if they're being this open about their willingness to punt on Ohio, they must have internal polling that's even worse for them. 2% is well within the dirty tricks threshold, so I can't believe they'd even consider diverting resources from Ohio's 18 EVs unless they really thought it was slipping away from them.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:56 AM on October 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


I can not wait for the traditional after the election massive news article that details what was going on in each campaign.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:00 AM on October 28, 2012 [11 favorites]


More opinions?

Everything to Play For: The US Elections
The Australian Institute of International Affairs

Tom Switzer: Why Mitt Romney will Win the US Election [14 mins]
Jonathan Tasini: Why Barack Obama Will Win [13 mins]
Brendan O'Connor: Why We all Care about the US Elections [11 mins]

If you're in a fit of pique:
The Q & A. [30 odd mins]
posted by de at 7:09 AM on October 28, 2012


Oh, and since the possibility of Obama winning the electoral college and losing the popular vote has come up here and around the internets, can I just say how absurd it is for the press to be talking about Obama's need to scale back his agenda to reach out to the majority of the country that didn't vote for him in this hypothetical scenario? The normally mild-mannered Josh Marshall eviscerates this preposterous notion with gusto:
Now, the possibility of election without a national majority exposes a genuine glitch in our system. No doubt. It is also true that these are the rules we play under and there is little reason to think that we'd have just the same result if both candidates were trying to maximize raw vote nationwide. Think how many more votes both candidates would mobilize in New York, California and Texas -- not to mention among African-American voters in hopelessly red states in the South. But mainly to those making these arguments I would make the following points: Get over it and most of all STFU.

This happened no more than twelve years ago for the first time in a century. Democrats were crushed and outraged. And in response to various suggestions that newly-inaugurated President George W. Bush would need to govern in a form of national unity government Bush responded by pursuing one of the most maximalist and aggressive agendas in recent American history.

The difference between a non-incumbent and an incumbent winning this way is no more than some sort of pseudo-fact. It quite simply is what it is. And having been perfectly happy with it twelve years ago Republicans would have no grounds for complaining now.
Look, I hate the electoral college so much that if there were an offer on the table to trade an Obama victory away to get a true national popular vote, I would have to think for a very long time about it. (I'd probably accept the deal, move to Canada, and come back if there's still a country left after the first Romney term.)

But this is the system we have, and if Obama had ever publicly supported doing away with the electoral college, he would have been accused of trying to dismantle our federalist system for his own political advantage. The idea that he has some duty to pivot towards the center because Romney got a bunch of extra anti-Obama votes in Mississippi and Alabama is a joke, and it's embarrassing to see this idea being taken seriously by the media.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:15 AM on October 28, 2012 [5 favorites]


That was an interesting article, Golden Eternity. I don't spend much time on Daily Kos because it is so heavily biased, but if they are right about this
In fact, every single newly registered voter that Team Obama has signed up, anywhere in the country, over the past couple of years is automatically disqualified as a Likely Voter under Gallup's methodology.

It turns out, you see, that Gallup's "Likely Voter" screen isn't really trying to measure people's "likelihood" of voting; it's measuring consistency of voting. Those who have been living in the same place, voting in race after race, are not only the "most likely" to vote, under this method, they're treated as the only ones who will vote.
then it makes the turn out in NC less of a surprise.
Well, new voter registration statistics have been released, and so now we have the evidence to back up that speculation. This is an over-generalization, but broadly Obama is indeed turning out new voters, whereas Romney is turning out the same old voters.

In total, 324,780 people voted in One-Stop Early Voting on Thursday and Friday. Of those, 42,709 were brand new previously unregistered voters. They did not pass any poll's "likely voter" screen, nor did they even pass any poll's registered voter screen. And yet, they voted. And it is clear that they voted overwhelmingly for Obama (probably by about 2 to 1)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:15 AM on October 28, 2012 [3 favorites]


I can not wait for the traditional after the election massive news article that details what was going on in each campaign.

Seriously, just adapt that shit for a new HBO series to premier in 2014.
posted by Theta States at 8:00 AM on October 28, 2012


ACK, the chart on fivethirtyeight dropped a percentage point. GET BACK UP THERE BLUE LINE, WE ARE DEPENDING ON YOU.
posted by JHarris at 8:05 AM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


Expanding the map is one thing if you're the Obama campaign, which actually expanded the map in 2008 and has been defending the expanded map this whole election. Talking about expanding the map less than two weeks out sounds desperate.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:03 AM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


I hate to put my ignorance on display, but how do you keep track of the race of voters? This chart shows the early voters of North Carolina
Here's who those 42,709 brand new voters are:

Party Registration:

Democrats - 20,792 (48.7%)
Republicans - 8,699 (20.4%)
Libertarians - 604 (1.4%)
Unaffiliated - 12,614 (29.5%)

Race:

White - 19,041 (44.6%)
Black - 13,470 (31.5%)
American Indian - 510 (1.2%)
Hispanic - 2,706 (6.3%)
Other - 9,688 (22.7%)
Is there a box on the ballot or the registration to check? I don't remember indicating my race on the ballot, but it could be something I have done and not noticed. I just checked my voter registration card and it shows my sex and my voter affiliation but there is nothing on there about race.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:17 AM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


All this poll-watching is like knowing you have to lose 25 lbs in a month in order to fit into your NASA Mission to Mars spacesuit and checking the scale every 15 minutes. And the scale is broken.

Oh wow, on preview/RSS distraction:

Conservative pollster: Nate Silver is wrong because he is ‘thin and effeminate’
Nate Silver is a man of very small stature, a thin and effeminate man with a soft-sounding voice that sounds almost exactly like the ‘Mr. New Castrati’ voice used by Rush Limbaugh on his program,” Chambers wrote. “In fact, Silver could easily be the poster child for the New Castrati in both image and sound.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:42 AM on October 28, 2012 [3 favorites]


Nate Silver has no Purity Of Essence.
posted by The Whelk at 9:44 AM on October 28, 2012 [8 favorites]


Nice, real nice. Calling someone a castrato just because you don't like the way the election is going for you. Would Nate Silver be ball-less if his polls showed Romney with a clear lead?

Also, what an idiot to equate masculinity with "trustworthiness." So in short all of us women and gays are totally untrustworthy. Got it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:48 AM on October 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


Gay ≠ unmasculine. That is all.
posted by hippybear at 9:53 AM on October 28, 2012 [3 favorites]


Is there a box on the ballot or the registration to check?

Nope, this is the data mining stuff that the campaigns (and anyone to access with data sets) can generally get from combining information in multiple databases. Democracy Now did a bit about how the campaigns use this, so I would assume the pollsters could as well.
posted by jessamyn at 10:03 AM on October 28, 2012


But I have a feeling that it does equal that in the mind of that pollster.
posted by gaspode at 10:03 AM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


From that Kos Gallup "likely voter" analysis:
GONG! Nope, sorry, you're not a Likely Voter, you failed questions 2 and 3. How many thousands of Obama voters (especially young people, poor people, inner city folks) fit this description?
I hope they're right and that this isn't just small parsing and wishful thinking, but I can say this: I got some kind of a card from MoveOn. org showing a bar graph comparing my voting frequency in the last 5 elections with my neighbors. I'd only voted in one election, the primary, or only 20% of the 5 most recent election, though on average my neighbors have voted in more than 60% of the last five elections. That's terrible! Oh, wait, I just moved to this district after last year's elections and I've voted in every election that has happened since I moved, which is one so far, for a voting rate of 100%. This data on my apparent poor performance as a voter didn't seem to take that into account. So I can see how, if they're rigidly handling this data as a pollster definitely should, that mistake is being made.

Still, I wonder if it can really offset the laziness of the electorate. I worry that a lot of people are a little sanguine about Obama's chances, or simply not fired up and ready to go, and might not vote if it turns out to be a busy day, bad weather, etc. It's all about turnout.
posted by Miko at 10:07 AM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


I worry that a lot of people are a little sanguine about Obama's chances

Most people who might not vote aren't basing their expectations on 538 and EC models, they're looking at national polls.
posted by howfar at 10:18 AM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


Conservative pollster: Nate Silver is wrong because he is ‘thin and effeminate’

In the 2008 elections, Silver accurately predicted how all the states would fall, expect for Indiana, which went for Obama by 1%. He was completely correct all the Senate races.

In 2010, he was off by one on the number of Senate pickups the Republicans would get (6 vs 7), 8 of House pikcups (63 vs 55) and got all the 36 of the 37 governerships right. The race he was wrong about came down to close percentages, 46.6% vs 46.1%. (source)

Mr. Conservative Pollster, aka Dean Chambers of of unskewedpolls.com, started his site in July of this year and doesn't have a track record, other than other pollsters shaking their head about his methods.

Nate Silver has a record and a good one. Dean Chambers has a big mouth and not a very good one.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:23 AM on October 28, 2012 [5 favorites]


Since Silver seems to actually be gay I wonder if Chambers is just dog-whistling with the gay stereotyping or if he's flat out gay-bashing.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:51 AM on October 28, 2012


Gay ≠ unmasculine. That is all.
posted by hippybear

Sorry, hippybear, if I made the wrong assumption. I thought when Chambers referred to Nate Silver being "thin and effeminate" that Chamber was calling Silver gay but I see now that he wasn't actually.
As defined by Limbaugh, the “New Castrati” are men who have been, “bullied by women” and who have been beaten into, “total acquiescence to the liberal agenda.” Though Limbaugh insists it is not a term denoting sexual orientation, he concedes that it does refer to a, “lack of manhood.”
So my bad. And I never assume that someone being thin or tidy or soft-spoken means they are gay nor do I assume that burly, beefy, rough men are heterosexual. Just wanted to clarify.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:04 AM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


I got some kind of a card from MoveOn. org showing a bar graph comparing my voting frequency in the last 5 elections with my neighbors
I don't know if it's a UK cultural thing but if I received that from someone other than the Electoral Commission I would lose my shit. Hell even the EC shouldn't be tracking my voting habits in any identifiable form.

There again I still can't fathom this registered democrat/republican thing, "who am I voting for? the none of your fucking business party"
posted by fullerine at 11:09 AM on October 28, 2012 [4 favorites]


I don't know if it's a UK cultural thing but if I received that from someone other than the Electoral Commission I would lose my shit. Hell even the EC shouldn't be tracking my voting habits in any identifiable form.

So in the US it is a fairly normal thing. I've volunteered as an Election Protection monitor for a bunch of elections and in some places they will post lists at the polling place of who has voted already. In the early afternoon, the Get Out the Vote workers will come by, cross the names of the folks who have voted off their lists of registered voters, and go call/ring doorbells of the folks who haven't voted yet. So it's very much public information here whether or not someone has voted in a given election.

And if a certain number of elections go by without a person voting, some places will strike you from the rolls. So it is certainly something that is monitored.
posted by ambrosia at 11:15 AM on October 28, 2012


As defined by Limbaugh, the “New Castrati” are...

I don't take my advice on sexuality from guys who lug so much Viagra that they get arrested at the airport for smuggling, and can't even find a golddigger who will stay with him by throwing millions of dollars at her.
posted by msalt at 11:16 AM on October 28, 2012 [6 favorites]


> and go call/ring doorbells of the folks who haven't voted yet.

Good grief.
posted by de at 11:22 AM on October 28, 2012


I don't know if it's a UK cultural thing but if I received that from someone other than the Electoral Commission I would lose my shit.

Voter files are just more public records in the US. But very big ones, so the current intense uses had to wait for computing to catch up.

There again I still can't fathom this registered democrat/republican thing

Part of having primary elections. If the state is going to run the party's nomination process, it has to know who is eligible to vote within that party.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:37 AM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


Room 641-A: "Conservative pollster: Nate Silver is wrong because he is ‘thin and effeminate’"

Did you see that guy? He's a ugly doughfaced guy with his top button buttoned. Therefore he should not be trusted.
posted by notsnot at 11:58 AM on October 28, 2012


Conservatives use flawed conventional wisdom applied to poll results to incorrectly guess election results.

Apolitical statistician uses observation skills and mathematics to school them, getting impressively accurate results.

Conservatives use flawed conventional wisdom applied to personality to judge accuracy of statistician's results.

Somehow 49% of the country still listens to these schmucks.
posted by JHarris at 12:59 PM on October 28, 2012 [3 favorites]


Oh, and instead of rueing that Dean Chambers is slagging off on our favorite fact-based statistics guy, we should be grateful. Because everyone who's listening to conservative-leaning poll strategists is getting worse information, and thus probably misapplying resources. We should let them take solace in how they think the numbers show they're right, it doesn't reflect the facts any more than if they predicted a win for Michael Milhouse Mouse.
posted by JHarris at 1:08 PM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


The world is full of strapping macho jocks who got crushed by the casino. Nate Silver played smart for years and came out a winner before he decided the model he used to do that could also be applied to politics.

Math doesn't care how strong you are or your sex or sexual orientation. Math works just as well for petite women as it does for NFL linebackers. And what Nate Silver does, and does demonstrably well, is math.

Of course math tends to reflect reality, and reality seems to have a well-known liberal bias so that could be a problem for some peple.
posted by localroger at 1:09 PM on October 28, 2012 [6 favorites]


Whedon on Romney
posted by zombieflanders at 2:07 PM on October 28, 2012 [22 favorites]


I did not realize that Dean Chambers was quite as nutty as he is. Any time you're adjusting a poll by 11 points in any direction (and especially when that poll is run by Gravis and you shift it 11 points in the Republican direction), you're probably doing it wrong. Any time you forecast a state for a candidate who has led in less than 1% of the polling, none of it recent, you're probably doing it wrong.

It's one thing to discard the average of polling because you think that a lot of the polls are getting some demographics wrong and adjust your expectations by a few percentage points. It's another thing entirely to just suddenly decide that you're going to have such favorable demographics that you skew by double digits.
posted by wierdo at 2:26 PM on October 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


I don't know if it's a UK cultural thing but if I received that from someone other than the Electoral Commission I would lose my shit. Hell even the EC shouldn't be tracking my voting habits in any identifiable form.

No one knows how you voted but whether you voted is public record. When I worked on the Obama campaign in '08 I had access to the voting history and party registration of every single voter in Pennsylvania.
posted by octothorpe at 2:32 PM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's one thing to discard the average of polling because you think that a lot of the polls are getting some demographics wrong and adjust your expectations by a few percentage points. It's another thing entirely to just suddenly decide that you're going to have such favorable demographics that you skew by double digits.

Yes, but if what you really want to do is lay the groundwork for the tinfoil hat crowd that Obama is not a legitimate President, you might as well sow some doubts about the accuracy of the polling that shows him likely to be re-elected.
posted by ambrosia at 2:33 PM on October 28, 2012


Meh, the tinfoil hat crowd has insisted from day one that Obama was not legitimately elected. His 7 point lead nationally was just a bunch of ballot box stuffing, donchaknow?
posted by wierdo at 2:43 PM on October 28, 2012


wierdo: "ballot box stuffing"

They prefer the phrase "Chicago-style politics"...
posted by notsnot at 2:52 PM on October 28, 2012


I did not realize that Dean Chambers was quite as nutty as he is.

When I was in college I was on the fencing team. Sounds impressive, until you know that I went to a miniscule school, and to get on the team all you needed to do was take fencing for a second quarter.

Sometimes the right-wing acts the same way. When I first heard about Chambers (just a few weeks ago) he was being reported as some laughable guy who just knew the formula for computing a weighted average. But when you say what they want to hear, the right wing has buckets of cash, miles of column inches, gigabytes of blog posts, and a whole slew of pundit spots on Fox to treat just as if you were a serious person with serious ideas. It's pretty depressing.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:54 PM on October 28, 2012 [3 favorites]


A one-eyed man is king in a land of the blind.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 2:59 PM on October 28, 2012


Whedon on Romney

I guess we know who zombieflanders is voting for.
posted by homunculus at 3:01 PM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


Could not connect to JRun Server.

Ahhh!
posted by homunculus at 3:01 PM on October 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


Fresh polls from PPP have Obama up by 4 in OH and up by 2 in NH, each an increase of +3 from their last round. That should nudge the Blue Line up a little bit.
posted by saturday_morning at 3:22 PM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


A one-eyed man is king in a land of the blind.

A one-eyed trousersnake is king in the land of Fox News.
posted by howfar at 3:49 PM on October 28, 2012 [3 favorites]


I guess we know who zombieflanders is voting for.

As an Undead-American, I'm always afraid that I won't know where my next tasty brains will come from. I need to know that there's a candidate out there that understands my special needs. Romney is that man, and therefore I will pull the lever for him, although I feel sorry for the next guy, as that pesky shoulder is about ready to pop right off.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:23 PM on October 28, 2012 [5 favorites]


Whedon on Romney
"Let's all embrace the future. Stop pretending we care about each other, and start hoarding canned goods. Because if Mitt takes office, sooner or later, the Zomneys will come for all of us." -- Joss Whedon
Full transcript on Cinema Blend.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:39 PM on October 28, 2012 [4 favorites]


I did not realize that Dean Chambers was quite as nutty as he is. Any time you're adjusting a poll by 11 points in any direction (and especially when that poll is run by Gravis and you shift it 11 points in the Republican direction), you're probably doing it wrong.

By comparison if you adjusted +11 for Obama, he would be leading in Georgia, Tennessee, SC, Montana, Arizona, Missouri; he would have Nebraska and South Dakota as toss-ups and be 'expanding the map' in Mississippi, Louisiana and Indiana. That's 400+ EV and it's a scenario that deserves as much consideration as that unskewed-polls site.
posted by ersatz at 7:27 PM on October 28, 2012 [3 favorites]


God, it's awful, but I'm wondering how many people who had planned to vote early will not vote at all now because of the storm.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:39 PM on October 28, 2012


I have to believe that if the storm disrupts people's right to vote, the courts could do something. Maybe extend election day?
posted by cooker girl at 7:44 PM on October 28, 2012


The storm will be passed well before election day. If this were happening next week, I could see extending the election window. As it is happening this week, I don't see any reason to think this should happen.
posted by hippybear at 7:50 PM on October 28, 2012


That's what I was thinking, hippybear.
posted by cooker girl at 7:55 PM on October 28, 2012


roomthreeseventeen, I just talked to my dad. He lives in Maryland, on the western shore of the Chesapeake, and he said that his local emergency planning office told everyone to be prepared for 7-10 days without power. I asked him if he would still be able to vote, and he said that if the power is still out on Election Day, the Board of Elections would be bringing in generators to run the polling stations. It sounds like the town has been through this kind of thing before, and has a pretty solid plan in place.

(Nevertheless, he noted that there were still plenty of people lined up, and willing to brave four-hour wait times, for the start of early voting this weekend.)
posted by bakerina at 8:05 PM on October 28, 2012


(Nevertheless, he noted that there were still plenty of people lined up, and willing to brave four-hour wait times, for the start of early voting this weekend.)

Which might favour Obama, who knows? This is the thing, and I know I said it upthread, but an event like this is unpredictable in electoral terms. It might have any effect, so it's not worth considering. You can't apply gut instinct to it, because it affects too many people, and you can't get stats on it, because it's not repeatable. It's unknowable.

All that is knowable is that lots of people are at risk and lots of damage might happen. Those are real, predictable bads. If you're going to worry about something, those are the things to worry about.
posted by howfar at 8:32 PM on October 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


All that is knowable is that lots of people are at risk and lots of damage might happen. Those are real, predictable bads. If you're going to worry about something, those are the things to worry about.

Oh, absolutely. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.
posted by bakerina at 8:41 PM on October 28, 2012


Oh of course bakerina, I didn't think you were. I guess I'm talking about the practicality of worrying more than whether it's right or wrong or (un)important. Worrying isn't practical at the best of times, of course, but when it's worrying without data, it'll drive you insane.
posted by howfar at 8:49 PM on October 28, 2012


It is a bit of a head scratcher that with folks like Trump ''five-mil-for-your-college-application-black-dude'' and Gingrich ''oh-just-get-over-te-rape-thing-already'' that the GOP is still alive. And I don't mean this in a partisan fashion, but a what-the-fuck-America fashion. Rape and racism woo hoo we want YOUR vote!!!
posted by edgeways at 9:32 PM on October 28, 2012 [11 favorites]


what-the-fuck-America

I'm right there with you. I feel really alienated from a country in which things could be this close. I mean I thought I felt alienated during the Bush years, and I was just angry and the opponents were angry, but I thought I could understand where they were coming from, (fearful, concerned with security, hawkish), however mistaken that seemed to me. This time I around I'm just utterly at a loss: Really? This is what you guys want? You think this campaign is cool? You admire these guys? This seems viable to you? You like these positions?

I honestly don't understand.
posted by Miko at 9:36 PM on October 28, 2012 [29 favorites]


Joss Whedon "endorses" Mitt Romney

Also, MeFi favorite Charles P.Pierce on the Des Moines Registry endorsing Romney:
Before moving on to the televised gobshites, let's pause for a moment and congratulate the editors of the Des Moines Register, a newspaper we're supposed to care about every four years or so, for throwing a public tantrum and making themselves look like idiots in the process. Remember, a couple of weeks back, when the president got in a wrangle over whether a meeting with the newspaper's editorial board would be on or off the record? Well, this is simply not something one does to the Voice Of The Corndog, so, on Saturday evening, the Register endorsed Willard Romney, the first Republican it has endorsed since Richard Nixon in 1972, and didn't that work out gloriously?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:41 PM on October 28, 2012 [3 favorites]


Can I just say how thrilled I am that Warren appears to be opening up that very narrow lead in Massachusetts?
posted by bardophile at 2:17 AM on October 29, 2012 [3 favorites]


Not the first comparison I've read between Romney and Nixon this week.

As I predicted last week Silver has the race back around a 75% win. I think that will bump along around there, maybe get to the high 70s if we're lucky. Would like it to be in he 90s, but all things considered would rather be in Obama's shoes than Romney's
posted by edgeways at 4:53 AM on October 29, 2012


This time I around I'm just utterly at a loss: Really? This is what you guys want? You think this campaign is cool? You admire these guys? This seems viable to you? You like these positions?

I honestly don't understand.


I view it as the general irrationally that happens when a economy is in the toilet. People just want things to get better and the smiling, wonderfully coiffed businessman handing out promises like candy is seemingly wonderful antidote.

I take solace in the fact that it's so close, because that means there are hordes of us and we can win. Personally, I think with better framing the Democrats and liberals would be in huge lead on multiple levels, but the party as a whole isn't bold enough to triumph who it is and why it offers better solutions. Republicans have been extremely successful in turning liberal and government into dirty words and there's little push back against that.

So we wind up with people screaming "Keep government out of my Social Security," which is maddening. But it also points to a way in which people can come to understand how useful government can be to their lives.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:22 AM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


I view it as the general irrationally that happens when a economy is in the toilet. People just want things to get better and the smiling, wonderfully coiffed businessman handing out promises like candy is seemingly wonderful antidote.

I understand this part, that makes sense in a screwed up way. It is the whole doubling down on blatant white-male paternalism. No one asks if Romney (or Bush Jr) was born in Mexico, both are not zero % possibilities. Not that it really matters citizenship wise, but if Obama was born in Kenya it would be as a big deal if Romney born in Mexic. No calls for Romney's birth certificate, or college transcripts, or application. Add to that, which at least as slimy as it is, is directed at someone playing the game, the friggen huge swath of borderline, rape-is-ok-in-some-cases, asprin between the knees, isn't my (female) opponent just like a dog, birth control is for sluts, just get over it, legitimate-honest-emergency-easy-enjoyable rape. That is just fucking insane, and not in the mental illness sense but in the these are the beliefs and attitudes of people considered sane enough to be in government are beyond belief. What political party deserves not only support, but near 50% support in the face of such an onslaught of blatant misogyny? And that doesn't touch the Peter Kings of the world who seem to just get a pass on his otherworldlyness.
Voting for someone because you think they are going to get you a job, despite all evidence to the contrary is one thing, that's partisan, and we will never get away from that, whatever. But moving the Overton window so rape as mainstream enough to ponder the okedness of some rape as oppose to other is not partisanship it is... well evil.

Reading Gingrich's "just get over it" remark the other day made me want to grab his head and headbutt him in the nose. the sheer amount of privilege and condescension contained therein marks him beyond compassion.
posted by edgeways at 6:34 AM on October 29, 2012 [3 favorites]


No one asks if Romney (or Bush Jr) was born in Mexico, both are not zero % possibilities.

McCain’s Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out


Add to that, which at least as slimy as it is, is directed at someone playing the game, the friggen huge swath of borderline, rape-is-ok-in-some-cases, asprin between the knees, isn't my (female) opponent just like a dog, birth control is for sluts, just get over it, legitimate-honest-emergency-easy-enjoyable rape. That is just fucking insane, and not in the mental illness sense but in the these are the beliefs and attitudes of people considered sane enough to be in government are beyond belief.

Everyone says and believes irrational things, politicians are not exception and people tend to be forgiving of people on "their side".
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:42 AM on October 29, 2012


I think Romney and the Republicans will probably spend the next week generating stories about how Obama stole this election, pointing at stuff like Rasmussen and Gallup as "proof" that Obama is a lying, cheating socialist in cahoots with the MSM. Lack of MSM investigation into "obvious irregularities" will further confirm to the conspiracy theory prone members of the Right that Obama is trying to destroy this country and we will get even more craziness stirred up by people like Rush and Hannity. All so that Republicans in the Congress can still engage with their crazy program of hostage taking.
posted by vuron at 6:48 AM on October 29, 2012


. Personally, I think with better framing the Democrats and liberals would be in huge lead on multiple levels, but the party as a whole isn't bold enough to triumph who it is and why it offers better solutions

I share this critique of the Democrats in general and the Obama administration in particular. Obama focused tightly on managing and negotiation and, I have to say, dropped a lot of the ball on the 'hearts and minds' front early on and hasn't fully picked it up again. I really wish that David Plouffe had stayed on to lead the White House communications team, because he really got it.

I also agree that the economy makes people go haywire with anxiety. But edgeways has a point too - a lot of what has been activated is racism and misogyny. I hate to recognize it and realize it, but it is true.

The citizenship question is interesting. But at the same time, how big an issue did that become for McCain? Or George Romney or Goldwater? Not a very big issue. Meanwhile, four years later, there are still crazy people challenging Obama's legitimacy and they are still getting coverage.
posted by Miko at 6:49 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Looks like David Corn at Mother Jones is following up his 47% tape with a (hopefully) mini-October Surprise:

Romney to Business Crowd: Obama Sees You As an "Evil"
posted by zombieflanders at 6:59 AM on October 29, 2012


More secret tape fun from Mother Jones
an audio recording of a private Mitt Romney fundraiser from earlier this year. At this event, Romney didn't decry half of the nation, but he and Ann Romney each expressed disdain for President Barack Obama, with the Republican presidential candidate asserting that Obama considers businesspeople "a necessary evil" and his wife suggesting that the president was not a "grown-up."
Ann seems to have a fixation on men who are "grown-ups." President Obama seems very grown-up to me (unlike George Bush who seemed more like a frat boy) so I'm not clear what her criteria is for belittling him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:00 AM on October 29, 2012 [4 favorites]


Center for Responsive Politics - Total Outside Spending by Election Cycle, Excluding Party Committees. The second chart on the page - Total Liberal vs. Conservative Outside Spending, Excluding Party Committees - is something to behold. Where is all that money going?
posted by cashman at 7:04 AM on October 29, 2012


The level of entitlement among Mitt and Ann and their peer group is ridiculous. Not only are they not humble about their good fortune to be one of the elite but they have a massive amount of contempt for everyone beneath them that don't grovel and scrape for their castoffs.

These guys really want a return to feudalism so that they can beat their serfs for being impertinent.
posted by vuron at 7:06 AM on October 29, 2012 [4 favorites]


So, has Pat Roberts or anyone else blamed Sandy on Obama yet? If not I guarantee the will within the next day or so.
posted by edgeways at 7:08 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


But edgeways has a point too - a lot of what has been activated is racism and misogyny. I hate to recognize it and realize it, but it is true.

Oh absolutely, but I view that sort of thing as expected pot shots. Yes, take them seriously, but don't dwell on them too much and educate whenever possible.

A simple "There they go again," combined with a graphic on the DNC website that counts the number of racist, rape and mysonigistic comments/attacks by the GOP would be good theater. Place it right under a larger banner that says what the party is for and have that counter as reminder of what we're fighting against. If the GOP wants to roll that way, then brand them that way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:12 AM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


More on Ann.
excerpt from the Good Housekeeping interview:

GH:What are the steps your husband would take to improve the economy?

AR: Just his election itself is going to instantly turn up the gas and get people more optimistic, but he has five things that are simple for people to understand: One is to get rid of regulation; one is to start using our natural resources; one is to turn to human capital, which is education, and get that working again; and…oh, I’m not sure on the last two! (Laughs)

GH: Well, three is a very good start. A couple of years ago, we created the Green Good Housekeeping Seal as a way of helping consumers figure out what products are truly green versus what are just greenwashing claims. Are green issues something you think about?

AR: Everyone wants clean air and clean water. I mean, of course we all do. And then if you go to a country like China —

GH: Where there is no regulation...

AR: Where there is no regulation, and you see what’s wrong there and how people are dying younger there. And the pollution and the air quality is just abysmal, and people are having to live in that. You understand how important it is, but you also have to recognize that we have to balance those things.
So I'm confused. On the one hand she talks about getting rid of regulations but then within a few sentences she points out how bad things are in China without regulations. Maybe in her fantasy world the corporations regulate themselves?

In the same interview she talks about needing to "throw out" the current public school system and turn to a voucher system. "The teachers’ unions are preventing those things from happening, from bringing real change to our educational system." Gosh darn those evil, evil unions and those selfish teachers who won't allow our children to be educated!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:18 AM on October 29, 2012 [4 favorites]


First Thoughts: The campaign goes on - sort of
[T]here are three larger points to make about Sandy: One, you’re not going to see the candidates campaign in Virginia or New Hampshire for the rest of theweek and perhaps for the rest of the campaign. (They can’t bring their motorcades and Secret Service protection to these areas.) Two, three days from this campaign are essentially going to be erased. (Yes, Romney is hitting three battleground states of Ohio, Iowa, and Wisconsin. And Bill Clinton and Biden are stumping in Florida and Ohio. But how much coverage is that going to receive?) And three, if you’re the president, you do your job. That’s probably why you saw the president -- who landed in Florida yesterday -- decide to return immediately to the White House today. The only unforced error a campaign can make during this storm is acting TOO political. And the Obama campaign erased their unforced error without having today’s awkward campaign event play out on TV potentially. The person in the real bind right now is Romney. What does he do that doesn’t look overly-political or insensitive? He has no specific job right now.
Willard Romney and the Relief from Disaster Relief
We will attempt to blog through the Frankenstorm!!!!!111!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!! as best we can. (Strong men wept when we had to eat the lead camel etc. etc.) But, just because we have long memories here deep in the impact zone, we'd like to bring you this old favorite from the guy who's 50-50 to be your next president....
Every time you have an occasion to take something from the federal government and send it back to the states, that's the right direction. And if you can go even further and send it back to the private sector, that's even better. [...] We cannot — we cannot afford to do those things without jeopardizing the future for our kids. It is simply immoral, in my view, for us to continue to rack up larger and larger debts and pass them on to our kids, knowing full well that we'll all be dead and gone before it's paid off. It makes no sense at all.
I think I can speak for all three of my children when I say that it will be okay with them — and with the prospective grandkids — if we spend a little money this week to keep my house from washing up in Nova Scotia.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:19 AM on October 29, 2012


So I'm confused. On the one hand she talks about getting rid of regulations but then within a few sentences she points out how bad things are in China without regulations. Maybe in her fantasy world the corporations regulate themselves?

Remember, it doesn't have to make sense, it just has to hit all the emotional buttons. Government bad. Therefore lack of regulation, i.e. government interference, good!

Of course China did no regulation wrong, it's China, aka not the greatest country in the world!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:31 AM on October 29, 2012 [3 favorites]


Well if Mitt fails in his run to be President of the US maybe he can establish residency in Somalia next and run a job creators paradise in a land with no government interference in the private sector, or anything for that matter.
posted by vuron at 7:37 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


The level of entitlement among Mitt and Ann and their peer group is ridiculous. Not only are they not humble about their good fortune to be one of the elite but they have a massive amount of contempt for everyone beneath them that don't grovel and scrape for their castoffs.

Not that it makes any practical difference, but I have a strong suspicion that Mitt and Ann hold everyone in contempt who isn't an actual Romney, regardless of whether they're in the 47%, the 99%, or the top 0.0001%.
posted by headnsouth at 7:41 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Ann Romney: Everyone wants clean air and clean water

I love that "clean air and water" are the benchmarks for "regulation." In the US, the Clean Air Act was passed in 1963, and the Clean Water Act was passed in 1972.

Mitt Romney: He's from the past, here to save the future!
Or,
Mitt Romney: He supports regulations, as long as they weren't passed in the last four decades
posted by filthy light thief at 8:04 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


I have little doubt that Romney and the Republicans will start up the blame train within a day or two after the storm hits. He probably won't even wait until the storm makes Canada, based on his performance with the embassy protests.

I also have little doubt the news media will declare STORM CANCEL when no major damage reports come in within a couple of hours of landfall. They do it almost every time. It was particularly egregious during/after Katrina. We expect to know instantly what his happening anywhere in the world in this day and age, but it just doesn't work that way.
posted by wierdo at 8:05 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


The Thin Blue Line advanced a full point today! That makes me embarrassing accidental singing in public levels of happy. La la la!
posted by JHarris at 8:06 AM on October 29, 2012 [3 favorites]


Can I just say how thrilled I am that Warren appears to be opening up that very narrow lead in Massachusetts?

How delicious it would be if her blocked nomination to head a largely unseen and unfunded bureaucracy ended up giving her more power and visiability as a senator.
AR: Everyone wants clean air and clean water. I mean, of course we all do. And then if you go to a country like China —
I get that talking about regulation in this context makes a lot of eyeballs glaze over. Now that a second* pharmaceutical company has been implicated in the meningitis outbreak maybe the dems can use this (pre- and post-election) as a way to get through to people who mainly have a knee-jerk negative reacion to regulation and flip them.

* Thanks to Fox News for the link demonstrating the need for regulation.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:06 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


I am currently waiting for Intrade to verify my identity so I can put a few grand down on Obama. After hanging out in the multi-mega-threads and obsessing over the Silversmith and the Wangulator, I feel pretty comfortable with it. But I'm going to be a ball of stress for the next week, I think.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:14 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


But I'm going to be a ball of stress for the next week, I think.

Don't forget the monthly jobs report, coming out this week!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:35 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Everyone wants clean air and clean water

… we just know that if they're free, people will overuse them when they could have been getting by with some dirty water and air every now and then.
posted by klangklangston at 8:44 AM on October 29, 2012 [6 favorites]


Brandon Blatcher: Don't forget the monthly jobs report, coming out this week!

Or maybe it isn't... The conspiracy nuts are already out. The angle: if the report looks bad, the BLS will delay its release until after the election. If the report looks good, they'll release it on time.
posted by syzygy at 8:44 AM on October 29, 2012


the Silversmith and the Wangulator

The what? The who now??
posted by JHarris at 8:49 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


JHarris: The what? The who now??

Nate Silver *(Silversmith) and Sam Wang (Wangulator).
posted by syzygy at 8:52 AM on October 29, 2012 [3 favorites]


Romney from 2011, wanting to end government disaster relief, and push it back to the states, and then to the private sector.
posted by cashman at 8:57 AM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


HuffPo has the video of Mitt saying that gay parents are not right on fact or on paper.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:08 AM on October 29, 2012


President Obama seems very grown-up to me (unlike George Bush who seemed more like a frat boy) so I'm not clear what her criteria is for belittling him.

I'm pretty sure "not grown up" is code for "uppity" when Ann applies it to the president.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:11 AM on October 29, 2012 [8 favorites]


I love Sam Wang on Princeton Election Consortium, he's totally in your face calling out the media's attraction to this phantom Mitt-momentum narrative when the polling just doesn't support it.

I really love how the talking heads are getting completely nuked by the quantitative guys. The sooner people like Chuck Todd gets replaced with a new breed of election commentator the better.
posted by vuron at 9:14 AM on October 29, 2012 [5 favorites]


"Every child has the right to have a mother and a father."

Yeah, that's great. Having a mother and a father worked out so well for me and for millions of other children who are abused by a parent.

How about, "Every child has the right to have adults in their lives who love and cherish them." That seems a lot better to me.
posted by cooker girl at 9:16 AM on October 29, 2012 [27 favorites]


Or maybe it isn't... The conspiracy nuts are already out. The angle: if the report looks bad, the BLS will delay its release until after the election. If the report looks good, they'll release it on time.

The conspiracy angle is totally understandable. If the parties were reversed, I'd be surprise if Democrats weren't calling the "no decision yet" statement as fishy.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:19 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty sure "not grown up" is code for "uppity" when Ann applies it to the president.

My right-wing mother always refers to Obama as "our young president." The meaning is very clear.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:21 AM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


HuffPo has the video of Mitt saying that gay parents are not right on fact or on paper.

To me the scarier part of that is Mitt Romney saying "today same same couples are marrying, under the law, in Massachusetts." Mitt says that like "You should be dismayed, shocked and amazed that is is being allowed to happen". He says it like "It's outrageous, can you believe it?" He says it like "this is a problem".

You didn't get that in the transcript that went around last week. On paper, it just reads like a statement of fact. But in the video the emphasis Mitt gives to the words, the way he bobs his head like "Did you hear that? These same sex couples dare to have rights!" when he says marrying - it's just scary.
posted by cashman at 9:33 AM on October 29, 2012 [6 favorites]


he's totally in your face calling out the media's attraction to this phantom Mitt-momentum narrative when the polling just doesn't support it.

Somehow I got Chris Mathews' show on NBC-2 last night and, horror of horrors, my wife started watching it.

A circle with Joe Klein, some BBC woman, some American woman with only a Twitter credit ... they were all pushing the Romney momentum angle. When the "liberal" media is running stories like "What President Mitt Romney would do in his first term" I would be worried. HuffPost poll compilation puts them in a dead heat (popular vote, of course).

Do I think these numbers are massaged to make the race closer than it really is? Of course. Does that matter to voters? Of course not. In a system where one or two states decide things, there has to be some unpredictability.

My right-wing mother always refers to Obama as "our young president." The meaning is very clear.

I wonder whether the fact that black people couldn't be Mormons until 1978 helps or hurts Mitt Romney ... I would guess it helps?
posted by mrgrimm at 9:38 AM on October 29, 2012


I really love how the talking heads are getting completely nuked by the quantitative guys. The sooner people like Chuck Todd gets replaced with a new breed of election commentator the better.

The standard pundits (Brooks, etc) seem to be pretty pissy that people are paying more attention to analysts with actual numbers to back up their assertions over their normal "gauging the mood off the electorate" bullshit.
posted by octothorpe at 9:39 AM on October 29, 2012


So, has Pat Roberts or anyone else blamed Sandy on Obama yet? If not I guarantee the will within the next day or so.Anti-Gay Preacher Blames Hurricane Sandy On Homosexuality And Marriage Equality:
Obama is 100 percent behind the Muslim Brotherhood which has vowed to destroy Israel and take Jerusalem. Both candidates are pro-homosexual and are behind the homosexual agenda. America is under political judgment and the church does not know it!
posted by kirkaracha at 9:42 AM on October 29, 2012


I wonder whether the fact that black people couldn't be Mormons until 1978 helps or hurts Mitt Romney ... I would guess it helps?

Honestly Mitt's religion has played such a small part in this race that I suspect most people don't even know much more about Mormonism now then they did 2 years ago, let alone the race relation problems the church has had.

I'd pay a nickle for someone to ask Romney if he has baptized any Holocaust kids. (no, that is in poor taste, I actually don't want him to be asked that)
posted by edgeways at 9:45 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yeah edgeways, things like that make me with I had a slightly evil twin to loudly ask pointed questions.
posted by JHarris at 9:48 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obama just gave a live address talking about how Federal and Local teams would work together and clean up the storm, et cetera. I know a few days ago he was on a call with a bunch of east coast mayors coordinating the response.

I guess if you're romney, as president you convene a press conference and say "good luck with that. I hear there are some companies nearby that will come help you if you pay them enough."
posted by cashman at 10:00 AM on October 29, 2012 [4 favorites]


Just now on NBC:

Obama press conference: The election? That will take care of itself. My concern right now is the safety of the residents, of the first responders, and of cleaning up after the storm. (I'm paraphrasing.)

Immediately following the press conference clip: Soundbite of Mitt Romeny stump speech in Ohio, urging residents to donate to the Red Cross and then vote because "I have a feeling whoever wins in Ohio will be the next president." (Paraphrasing again.)

Stay classy, Mitt.

On preview: I think cashman and I are talking about the same speech.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:04 AM on October 29, 2012 [9 favorites]


syzygy:
I've just been following the blog. I guess Silversmith is his Twitter name. Sam Wang's blog is a real find though, thanks for the link.
posted by JHarris at 10:21 AM on October 29, 2012


Just got back from voting. There was a one hour wait in line, although I have seen that elsewhere in NC the wait has been 4 hours so I guess I should consider myself lucky. It was cold though, 50 degrees and damp from all the rain we had last night. (I know, you can laugh at me, but for a Calif native that 50 degrees is cold. Still, it does cut down on the mosquito activity.)

My husband and I were greeted by two women passing out Democratic Party voting guides but the Republicans were nowhere in sight. Also this is the first election where we checked in via computer. Last year they were still checking our registration in big binders. The woman asked for my last name and obviously misspelled it because she could find no record of my address or previous voting record. I had her check the spelling and then she found me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:44 AM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


The woman asked for my last name and obviously misspelled it because she could find no record of my address or previous voting record. I had her check the spelling and then she found me.

Who the hell can't spell 'Gravy'?! Dropped off (rather than mailed) my wife's mail-in ballot yesterday. It's quite anti-climatic. It's just like a big mail box. I came across lots of people who had already voted (for both sides) yesterday while out GOTVing.
posted by NailsTheCat at 10:53 AM on October 29, 2012 [4 favorites]


Who the hell can't spell 'Gravy'?!

Well, depending on how SLoG's regional dialect and inflection comes into play when she says her name, it might come out sounding like "Secret Lie Fuhgray Vee", so I think the woman can be forgiven for looking under "V" (or even "F") first. :-)
posted by lord_wolf at 11:02 AM on October 29, 2012 [4 favorites]


Lexington, the US affairs blog of The Economist devotes an entry to discussing the various theories being bandied about regarding the electoral impact of Sandy. That maybe the storm will hurt Democrats, because conservatives vote no matter what else is going on, or that perhaps Romney will be hurt because he needs to be campaigning right now to keep a momentum going, but now he's been forced to stop campaigning and fundraising in several key states. Its conclusion is, unsurprisingly, that no one knows what the upshot will be. However, I suspect that the whole entry was just an excuse so that the writer could get this little nugget in at the end:
For proof of the uncertainty that reigns just now, I can only cite my favourite campaign email of the last 24 hours, a four-paragraph missive from Mr Romney in which one full paragraph is devoted to asking supporters to bring campaign yard signs indoors before the storm strikes. "In high winds they can be dangerous, and cause damage to homes and property," Mr Romney urges.

Sensible advice, no doubt, but something in me likes the idea of a multi-billion dollar election juggernaut being halted by visions of a voter impaled then pinned to a wind-lashed lawn by a flying Romney-for-president yard sign.
posted by Kattullus at 11:08 AM on October 29, 2012 [4 favorites]




Metafilter's own John Scalzi endorses Obama.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:44 AM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]






Yeah I like that - just flat out rightfully calling him a liar. Good.
posted by cashman at 12:14 PM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]




re: Mormonism

So, this chaplain used to work at our school. He was an Evangelical and a really nice guy in general. He was also 100% upfront about his beliefs and tried to live them, for good or for ill.

On the one hand, he was the first person in line to help the poor and needy locally. He worked with the homeless, the food bank, ran clothing drives, you name it. If it involved helping people - whether they were Christian or not - he was there doing it.

On the other hand, he also regularly told students that were not Christian or whose parents were not Christian that he was very sorry but they were going to go to hell when they died.

Now, he also ran our Religions of The World class and would teach every major world religion. He would not, however, teach Mormonism as a religion. Flat out refused. He believed it was a dangerous cult and so, when he did his sections on cults, Mormonism was the first thing he addressed.

He brought in guest speakers to chapel from a number of different religions (including Islam, FWIW) to promote tolerance and understanding, but would never bring in a Mormon, even though they offered.

So, and you can probably see where this is going, imagine my surprise when I see him endorsing Romney over Obama on Facebook on the basis of the fact that Romney's religious beliefs were more similar to his than Obama's.

Anyhow, I could care less about Romney's religion (and have stopped visiting Andrew Sullivan's blog this season because this subject is this elections' "the child is not Palin's" on his site) but I am itching to have a "so, you'd support a member of a dangerous cult over a fellow Christian" conversation with this guy. Not a confrontational one, but I really want to know what he could possibly be thinking. This is so inconsistent with his beliefs that it makes my brain hurt.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:24 PM on October 29, 2012 [8 favorites]


It's struck me that Romney seems to always be flippantly casually throwing people away if they don't strictly conform to his worldview.

Those people who lost their jobs because Bain liquidated their companies for a quick pay-off or because it went for the quick easy money of developing cheap labor and outsourcing manufacturing to China. Who cares about those people, if they were smart they wouldn't be laborers in an American factory requiring high-wages and decent benefits. Let them go...

Those 47%? He can't worry about them because, perhaps not wanting to vote for him, they don't care about their lives.

The 1.1 million workers who depend on Detroit and the auto industry. Let them get laid off and have their lives turned upside down, they're mostly union workers anyway and they're not going to vote for him (and subtext is they deserve to be hurt to any crony capitalistor Ayn Rand cultist) anyway. Too bad for them. That's "free enterprise" and I got mine.

The Obama campaign can call him "the throwaway president" always throwing people away for his own self gain. And end with: With Romney as president it's not a matter of if, but when he's throw you (the middle-class) away for self-enrichment.
posted by Skygazer at 12:31 PM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


MSNBC's Melissa Harris-Perry's open letter to Richard Mourdock.
posted by bardophile at 12:33 PM on October 29, 2012 [7 favorites]


So, and you can probably see where this is going, imagine my surprise when I see him endorsing Romney over Obama on Facebook on the basis of the fact that Romney's religious beliefs were more similar to his than Obama's.

Fred Clark talks a lot on this theme during his close reading of the Left Behind series. Recently in some evangelical denominations, "Salvation by Grace through Faith Alone" seems to have been perverted into "Salvation through strict adherence to a specific set of ethical beliefs." Romney is "more like" evangelicals like this because they both think that abortion is murder, among other things. In that way, an anti-abortion atheist would be more like this kind of evangelical than Obama. That's generally what people mean when they call someone a "Real True Christian" (usually ironically) - it has nothing to do with believing that Jesus is your Lord and Savior, and everything to do with believing in Libertarian small government. Salvation through Good Politics, I guess.
posted by muddgirl at 12:38 PM on October 29, 2012 [7 favorites]


There is a lot of controversy on a lot of Christian blogs I read casually-some won't vote for Romney because he is a Mormon and some will because he is on the same side as them for certain issues.


I learned a long time ago that when it comes to politics just because someone calls himself or herself a Christian does not mean they understand it the way I do; all I can do is vote for whoever I believe will be best for the country at that particular time and leave the rest in God's hands. I never ever thought I would vote for a Mormon (my husband used to be one if you didn't know that already) but in this case I metaphorically held my nose and did. To be honest his Mormonism was only one reason my nose was being held. Even if he wins I can't honestly say I will be totally overjoyed (but I do know a lot of small businesses will be turning cartwheels rightly or wrongly.)

But anyway, at the end of the day I am voting for President, not Chief Pastor. There are plenty of wonderful Christians I know that would make crappy presidents, and I am sure there have been lots of wonderful presidents that would make crappy pastors.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:29 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


>> More secret tape fun from Mother Jones
What they have in their mind is a vision of America dominated by government, by individuals they respect, people like themselves: highly educated, spent a lot of time in the faculty club at Harvard*, and they believe they can guide the economy better than can individuals all pursuing their own dream.

[...]

It makes all the sense in the world as opposed to saying individuals all doing whatever the heck they want, some without education, can go off and build businesses and succeed or fail. And yet that of course, that latter model, is the only one in the history of the world that's ever worked to lift people out of poverty and create permanent prosperity
.
Wait. Did Romney just give me the green light to start a grow-op an incorporated, tax-exempt, job-creating garden in my basement?

* David Corn helpfully reminds us that Romney has not one, but two graduate degrees from Harvard.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:34 PM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


As an atheist I don't have the privilege of even being able to vote with my faith (or lack thereof alone). I couldn't fill a ticket with atheist candidates, so of course I understand why an individual evangelical Christian would vote for Romney. What I find interesting is the idea that an evangelical christian would hold religious beliefs more in common with Romney than with Obama.
posted by muddgirl at 1:53 PM on October 29, 2012 [6 favorites]




week from now I'll be girding my loins (so to speak) for the 15+ hours at the poll station.
posted by edgeways at 2:32 PM on October 29, 2012


Princeton Election Consortium has Obama at 305 in their estimate now. Just went above 300 only yesterday, thanks to Florida dipping towards tossup territory again.
posted by Theta States at 2:42 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Christie (NJ Governor) was just on, giving a live press conference on Hurricane Sandy and saying the President called him directly and was hands on and said if Christie needs anything to just call Obama directly, and Christie said he appreciated that kind of leadership. He said Obama asked about how the coordination with federal authorities was going and Christie said he told the President it was going well, because it is, and Christie said if he does identify a need, he will not hesitate to in fact call Obama directly.

I'm sure the republicans are not going to be happy about that.
posted by cashman at 2:46 PM on October 29, 2012 [17 favorites]


A Romney win in 2012 would make it pretty hard for Christie to run in 2016.
posted by Uncle Ira at 2:51 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also, since we're basically a week out, when you go to vote, make sure you vote for president. In some places doing the "straight ticket" option does not include votes for president. [snopes]
posted by cashman at 2:52 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


even odds Christie wants Romney to lose, if for no other reason so Christie can run in '16
posted by edgeways at 2:55 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


A Romney win in 2012 would make it pretty hard for Christie to run in 2016.

Just like at the convention, the Republican speakers rarely spoke of Mitt at all. Remember back in August? Obama looked like a shoe in and they were all positioning for 2016.

I watched both conventions with my high school journalist daughter, a bit of a chore but fascinating since I wouldn't normally watch as much gavel to gavel
posted by readery at 2:57 PM on October 29, 2012


Also, since we're basically a week out, when you go to vote, make sure you vote for president. In some places doing the "straight ticket" option does not include votes for president. [snopes]
posted by cashman at 2:52 PM on October 29 [−] [!]


When I went to vote (early) they both handed me a slip of paper to that effect and then told me verbally. Good reminder.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:03 PM on October 29, 2012


A circle with Joe Klein, some BBC woman, some American woman with only a Twitter credit ... they were all pushing the Romney momentum angle.

It is clearly in the media's interest to promote the "momentum" angle. A close race means more public interest in the election and therefore higher ratings.

The problem for Romney is that, ultimately, this myth it is not really in his interest. Lukewarm GOP supporters might buy into this idea and stay at home. Lukewarm Obama supporters, on the other hand, might be concerned enough by reports of a close race to get out to the polls.
posted by smithsmith at 3:32 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


In thinking about the storm and the multitude of variables on how it might affect the election the usual caveats apply, safety and well being are paramount to those affected by the storm that is key.

I suspect there will be a slight advantage to the president out of this in that 1 - Just by dent of doing his job he gets to look presidential rather than a candidate, 2- The opposition will have to walk an extremely fine line in lobbing criticisms while Obama is in the midst of dealing with a Very Serious Event. You are unlikely to hear McCain going all whacker on Bengazi, likewise Issa won't have much room to hold "hearings". For a day or two Obama will get to be above the fray, that is a day or two closer to victory.

Sandy, I guess is the real October surprise, especially as no one really knows how it will affect things.

(I find this storm slightly disconcerting as it's my mom's name)
posted by edgeways at 3:34 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


MSNBC's Melissa Harris-Perry's open letter to Richard Mourdock.

For comparison's sake, here's the editorial from Fox News.

The news media have almost no understanding of faith and even less grasp of the pro-life movement. No one running for office on left or right is “pro-rape,” but those who respect life especially respect innocent life. That even means life resulting from something as “horrible” as rape.
posted by Kevtaro at 3:49 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


I love the scare quotes around "horrible" in that section of the Fox News editorial that Kevtaro just quoted. Awesome that there can be some wiggle room for whether rape is horrible or not. nice job, Fox.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:57 PM on October 29, 2012 [10 favorites]


Can Neuroscience Challenge Roe V. Wade?

The authors of a 2005 review of clinical research in the Journal of the American Medical Association have written, “Evidence regarding the capacity for fetal pain is limited but indicates that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester.” Still, not surprisingly, opinions on whether and when fetal sensitivity to pain may develop vary widely.


Idaho's "Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act”

Nebraska’s “Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act”
posted by Golden Eternity at 4:02 PM on October 29, 2012


Activists Pour Cash Into Voter Turnout. There are so many nuggets in here.
October 29, 2012, 11:21 a.m. ET

Americans for Prosperity, founded by the industrialist Koch brothers, says it now has more than 100 paid field workers nationwide and about 5,000 volunteers to go door to door. The group plans to spend $130 million this year on all activities, up from $14 million four years ago.

***

In prior elections, labor unions helped Democrats by sending workers and volunteers to the doors of millions of union employees to encourage them to vote. This election, most unions say they are focused more on campaigns for Congress.

Groups on the right are moving in the opposite direction. In the 2008 campaign, Americans for Prosperity didn't have much of a ground operation. This year, it says its field operation has 2.1 million active members and hopes to reach out to some 9 million individuals.

Throughout 2012, the group's political hands have gone door to door to visit both its own members and people it believes might be open to its message of opposition to Mr. Obama's economic policies. Beginning this week, they will encourage their members to vote by sending mailings and making phone calls.

***

In Ohio, some conservative voters are getting a one-two punch from the fiscally conservative FreedomWorks and the socially conservative Faith & Freedom Coalition.

Gary Marx of the Faith & Freedom Coalition said the goal is to boost the number of Ohio social conservatives who vote by as much as two percentage points. In 2008, Mr. Obama won Ohio by 4.6%.

Topping them all is Americans for Prosperity, which in some ways is an unlikely Romney ally. In the past, the group has opposed GOP candidates as well as Democrats who don't adequately oppose government spending and promote free markets.
So it probably isn't a coincidence that the Obama campaign promoted its call tool in a video today.

I read elsewhere that the republicans and Romney are pouring money into ad buys in some states starting tomorrow, and it looks like starting tomorrow the republicans are going all out to try to win. Don't sleep you guys. As has been said, we're going to need to fight to the finish, and run through the tape. And any other cliche that you like that tells you we'd better get up off our asses and do something.
posted by cashman at 4:05 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


but he has five things that are simple for people to understand: One is to get rid of regulation

Debate #1 - Romney: "You couldn't have people opening up banks in their — in their garage and making loans. I mean, you have to have regulations so that you can have an economy work. Every free economy has good regulation."

Last year they were still checking our registration in big binders.

Half-full of women?
posted by ersatz at 4:05 PM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


The media have repeated the “something God intended to happen” comment as if he meant the rape. Or that Mourdock thinks God meant for the rape to happen.

This is a flat out lie, the kind we’ve grown to expect after decades of abuse at the hands of so-called “neutral” journalists. The news media have almost no understanding of faith and even less grasp of the pro-life movement. No one running for office on left or right is “pro-rape,” but those who respect life especially respect innocent life. That even means life resulting from something as “horrible” as rape.
Yes, Joey Michaels, that "horrible" is weird. What is Dan Gainor getting at? That rape is not horrible? That sometimes rape is pleasant? I don't doubt that rape is sometimes pleasant for the rapist but come on! "Horrible" is such a fucked up way of qualifying rape. But I should be used to the far right qualifying rape by now.

Aside from the strange use of quotes, Gainor fails to see the point that women are making. If God intended for the woman to get pregnant, than what other part of the procedure did He intend? Does His intervention begin and end with the pregnancy? Does God intend barren women to be barren and children to get pregnant? These are all justifiable questions because the Far Right has a new version of God and we on the sidelines are just trying to pin them down as to their beliefs.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on October 29, 2012 [5 favorites]


(I find this storm slightly disconcerting as it's my mom's name)

A friend's wife passed away at the beginning of October last year. Her name was Sandy. He was really feeling bad around the one-year anniversary, but he'd started to feel normalish again, and then this happened.
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:14 PM on October 29, 2012


RE: binders.

I went a large big box store to return a too heavy for me item last weekend. I went into the store to inquire as to the logistics of such a feat and the sales lady helpfully said, "I'll try to find a guy to help you with that!" and I replied, "don't you have a binder full of guys to choose from?".

Straight outta my mouth before I even thought about it.

Blank look from sales lady. Guffaw from my mom.
posted by futz at 4:17 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Last year they were still checking our registration in big binders.

Half-full of women?


Or half-empty?
posted by orrnyereg at 4:17 PM on October 29, 2012


Or half-empty?

I know North Carolina comes across as a bit backwards, but women have been able to vote for years. As long as they get their husband's permission first.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:33 PM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


Last year they were still checking our registration in big binders.

Half-full of women?

Or half-empty?


That depends on if you're an optimist or a misogynist.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:58 PM on October 29, 2012 [5 favorites]


Some interesting news out today: Romney avoids taxes through a (now closed) loophole involving charitable trust
In 1997, Congress cracked down on a popular tax shelter that allowed rich people to take advantage of the exempt status of charities without actually giving away much money.

Individuals who had already set up these vehicles were allowed to keep them. [snip]

In this instance, Romney used the tax-exempt status of a charity -- the Mormon Church, according to a 2007 filing -- to defer taxes for more than 15 years. At the same time he is benefitting, the trust will probably leave the church with less than what current law requires, according to tax returns obtained by Bloomberg this month through a Freedom of Information Act request.
How Mitt Romney Deferred Paying Taxes for 15 Years
The CRUT allows individuals to “defer capital gains taxes on any profit from the sale of the assets, and receive a small upfront charitable deduction and a stream of yearly cash payments. [snip] Romney’s trust benefits from the Mormon church’s exempt status because charities don’t pay capital gains taxes when they make a profit from sales.
CRUT = charitable remainder unitrust. The Bloomberg report goes on to say that this CRUT is "paying him 8 percent of its assets each year. As the Romneys have received these payments, the money that will potentially be left for charity has declined from at least $750,000 in 2001 to $421,203 at the end of 2011."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:43 PM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


For those of you who like numbers, Gallop says 15% of all registered voters have already voted.
Early voting this election year is most prevalent in the West, followed by the South and the Midwest, but is relatively light in the East. These differences largely reflect regional differences in state laws on absentee and mail voting, with two states -- Washington and Oregon -- not only encouraging early voting, but mandating it. One in four voters in the West say they have already voted, and another 30% plan to vote before Election Day. The combined 55% in the West contrasts with 40% in the South, 23% in the Midwest, and 9% in the East.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:49 PM on October 29, 2012


Technically, WA does not mandate early voting. Any ballots postmarked on election day are considered valid and polling places are open on election day to turn in your ballots in person rather than mailing it in. (Ballot dropboxes are also available for submitting one's ballot anytime from date received to election day, so you don't have to rely on USPS.)

I seem to remember from when I lived in OR 13 years ago or so that they want to have RECEIVED your ballot by election day, not be postmarked by election day... so yeah, that would be mandated early voting.

(I could also be wrong about that memory. I haven't lived in OR for... well, 13 years or so.)
posted by hippybear at 5:55 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mitt Romney campaign co-chair Rob Portman says Mitt Romney, not President Barack Obama, who deserves credit for the plan that saved the auto industry
Simply stunning, isn't it? I mean, you'd think they'd be satisfied enough with their dishonest claim that Chrysler and Jeep are shipping American jobs to China even though the reality is that Chrysler is expanding its workforce to build more Jeeps here in America. But no, they aren't content to stop there: Now they want Mitt Romney to get credit for Obama's auto rescue plan.

Remember, Mitt Romney's plan was to let Detroit go bankrupt
I guess this is all part of Romney's plan to just lie his ass off. I mean, why not? Its not like anyone would notice or even care. He has lied so much that it is no longer unexpected or remarkable-- it is just his M.O, and his supporters work around that by believing in the things they want to believe in and discounting all the rest.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:59 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


OR ballot has a nice bold message on the back of the envelope that reads: "Your ballot must be received by 8:00 P.M. on Election Day to be counted." So, yeah, no mailing that day if you want to be sure. (I wouldn't be shocked if the post office makes a special effort to expedite ballot delivery on that day, but I'm not inclined to test that idea in any case.)

That said, it's still a little bit fuzzy to say that the state mandates early voting; what it does is mandate that you use the mail-in ballot mechanism to vote, i.e. there are no dedicated voting booth stations. You can still take your ballot, wait till election day, open it up only then, fill out your votes, seal and sign, and drop it off at any of a large number of drop boxes in town. You could even go to the library, stand next to the drop box, and do the whole shebang right there, if that's the sort of thing you enjoy.
posted by cortex at 6:07 PM on October 29, 2012


WA has actual polling places, but they are really just setups where you can go to fill out your ballot. There aren't any voting machines there or anything. I think you can get a provisional ballot to use in the event you lost the one mailed to you. And the people there will give you the obligatory I Voted sticker if you want one.

Having lived in two vote-by-mail states now, I have to say I quite like it.
posted by hippybear at 6:09 PM on October 29, 2012


I'm a little confused about how voting works in WA, given that they accept ballots postmarked election day. Does it just take a few days for the official results to be compiled? Especially for down ticket battles, I can imagine it must be frustrating to wait for the last of the mailed ballots to trickle in.
posted by meese at 6:09 PM on October 29, 2012


USPS in WA is pretty efficient. Two days at most for delivery from one corner of the state to the other, usually next-day delivery (everything I've mailed so far has arrived the next day no matter where in the state I've mailed it).

There is a bit of a trickle-in effect, and official totals often aren't posted until a week or so after the election, but it's usually pretty clear quickly what the winners are except for very close races.
posted by hippybear at 6:15 PM on October 29, 2012




MSNBC's Melissa Harris-Perry's open letter to Richard Mourdock.

Wow.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:33 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Something I discovered about the WA vote by mail system is that if your ballot never comes, there's a state website you can go to that will let you print a copy of your ballot yourself.

It's an extremely cool system.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:02 PM on October 29, 2012


That's interesting. How does that work with the two-envelope security system which is part of the received ballots? Do they have instructions on how to mail it, sign it, etc as part of that service?
posted by hippybear at 7:15 PM on October 29, 2012


MSNBC's Melissa Harris-Perry's open letter to Richard Mourdock.

For comparison's sake, here's the editorial from Fox News.


It bothers me that those who re-spin Mourdock's comments ignore the source of this thing that "God intended to happen." OK, so God wants a lady to be pregnant, but he gets her pregnant against her will? Oh hey, that's the very definition of rape.

So either God isn't picky about how a woman gets pregnant and that immaculate conception was a one-off trick for Him, or he simply supports rape.

In summary: logical thought processes are lacking from all quarters. Praise be to the math teachers, who remind their students that learning math isn't simply about numbers, but logical thought, which can be applied throughout life.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:38 PM on October 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


It bothers me that those who re-spin Mourdock's comments ignore the source of this thing that "God intended to happen." OK, so God wants a lady to be pregnant, but he gets her pregnant against her will? Oh hey, that's the very definition of rape.

The offense I take with this whole issue is that these people are legislating (or hoping to) based on their religious faith. THAT'S AGAINST THE RULES. I could give a good goddamn whether Richard Mourdock's god wants to rape people or under what circumstances his personal religious beliefs agree with abortion or not. If he believes in a murderous, hateful god (or a loving, compassionate one, or multiple ones, or whatever) then that is totally fine with me. Because I respect his right to freely hold whatever cockamamie beliefs he wants to hold. That is a-o-k with me. Live and let live. But I have a right to my own beliefs, and they are not in agreement with Richard Mourdock's beliefs as they pertain to rape and abortions. What's getting lost in the outrage over rape/abortion/women is the right to religious freedom. I have a right to not be forced to conform to Richard Mourdock's religious beliefs.
posted by headnsouth at 7:53 PM on October 29, 2012 [21 favorites]


In Wisconsin, the Democrat running for Tammy Baldwin's congressional seat is gay. A gay staffer for his Republican opponent said he was physically attacked for being a gay republican. The state's right wing media jumped on the story repeating it far and wide.

Turns out the GOP staffer lied. Oh, and the right wing media was tweeting about the story at least 2 hours before it was reported to have happened.
posted by drezdn at 8:02 PM on October 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


Oh, and the right wing media was tweeting about the story at least 2 hours before it was reported to have happened.

I can't find anything about this. Little help?
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:25 AM on October 30, 2012


Author of voter fraud billboards steps forth

Scot Ross, executive director of One Wisconsin Now, issued a statement Monday raising several questions for the Einhorns.

"Perhaps their Chicago public relations firm could answer why the Einhorns only felt it was necessary to target legal voters in minority communities, and why they didn't feel the need to do this 'public service' throughout communities across Wisconsin where a majority of the residents are white," Ross asked in his email. "Or put their name on it, rather than hiding behind the cowardly veil of anonymity."


posted by futz at 3:27 AM on October 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


I can't find anything about this. Little help?

Cog_Dis (who is usually reliable) mentioned it on twitter, but hasn't blogged about it yet.
posted by drezdn at 6:25 AM on October 30, 2012


Christie praises Obama, doesn’t ‘give a damn’ about Romney photo op
The presidential candidates have canceled all campaign events on Tuesday, but Republican New Jersey Chris Christie seemed to be stumping for President Barack Obama by appearing several networks to praise the federal response to Hurricane Sandy.
Raw Story (http://s.tt/1rm5A)

[...]

The New Jersey governor even took his message to Fox News, saying that Obama had helped “tremendously.”

[...]

Fox News co-host Steve Doocy wondered when Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney was going to get some of the same benefits from the hurricane with a photo op in disaster-stricken New Jersey towns.

“Over the last couple of months, you have appeared throughout the country, Governor, on behalf of Mitt Romney,” Doocy remarked to Christie. “[W]e hear that perhaps Mr. Romney may do some storm-related events. Is there any possibility that Gov. Romney may go to New Jersey to tour some of the damage with you?”

“I have no idea, nor am I the least bit concerned or interested,” Christie replied, immediately shutting down the idea. “I’ve got a job to do here in New Jersey that’s much bigger than presidential politics and I could [sic] care less about any of that stuff.”
I'm not sure which is more damning: Chris Christie sincerely being pragmatic and defending Obama, regardless of what Romney and the GOP think or Chris Christie, cynically looking to 2016 and defending Obama, regardless of what Romney and the GOP think.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:27 AM on October 30, 2012 [15 favorites]


So either God isn't picky about how a woman gets pregnant and that immaculate conception was a one-off trick for Him, or he simply supports rape.

I think this comes under the "mysterious ways" clause of God's contract.

That story about Christie is kind of a big deal. At least in NJ circles.
posted by Miko at 6:29 AM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think Christie is a total ass but good for him shutting down the Romney campaign. This is not a time for photo ops.
posted by vuron at 6:32 AM on October 30, 2012


Romney to attend ‘storm relief event’ Tuesday in Ohio
Mitt Romney will participate in a “storm relief event” in Ohio on Tuesday, his campaign said, as the Republican candidate seeks a role in helping Americans cope with a brutal superstorm one week before the US election.

[...]

The Kettering storm relief event is in the same arena where a Romney campaign rally had been previously announced for Tuesday.
What are the odds?! #serendipity

On preview: #MysteriousWays
posted by Room 641-A at 6:33 AM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


This is a clip of Joe Biden brazenly calling out Mitt Romney Bill Clinton watching Joe Biden brazenly call out Mitt Romney, and about 30 seconds away from pulling out a lighter, waving it over his head, and yelling 'Woooooo!'

Clinton's reaction peaks starting at the 3:00 mark.

There is a slight chance Clinton is actually reacting to the kittens and unicorns frollicking on the stage behind Biden.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:13 AM on October 30, 2012 [14 favorites]


Holy Moly Biden's engaging in real fire breathing rhetoric in that clip. Good for him to continue to call Romney a bald faced liar. Hopefully that narrative is beginning to stick because if someone is going to lie shamelessly in order to get elected they are definitely going to lie to you once they do get elected.
posted by vuron at 7:23 AM on October 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


Are Joe Biden and Bill Clinton good friends behind the scenes? Because it seems like they would be an absolute blast if you get them in a room together.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:41 AM on October 30, 2012 [13 favorites]


I like Clinton as much as the next guy, and can groove on his enthusiasm in the video, but for a good portion of the video he looks like a guy who is just coming out from getting a lobotomy or out from under some pretty awesome anesthesia.

*cue fox news talking head voice*: "Now I don't want to give anyone the impression that he actually had his frontal cortex operated on or that he was doing morphine behind the scenes but, in my not-really-all-that-professional-but-still-vocal opinion as someone who as seen some documentaries on hulu about the brain and about drug addiction, I think we should take note and change our opinions of the man as is prudent."
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:54 AM on October 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


I don't think that Biden speech does anything for the unconverted. He's preaching to the choir, which is fine, but it doesn't rouse me.

Good for him to continue to call Romney a bald faced liar.

I did not hear that claim. At what point does he say that? I did not hear the word "liar" or "lie"... I would like to hear it. The Wall Street Journal might not like the word, but the American people and I do. (I'm not sure the video finished. Or is there a mid-point ad? Nope, I got Chris Mathews ... click.)

I did hear "malarkey," which I don't like as much. It's a bit juvenile. "Totally false" is a little better

I like Clinton as much as the next guy, and can groove on his enthusiasm in the video, but for a good portion of the video he looks like a guy who is just coming out from getting a lobotomy or out from under some pretty awesome anesthesia.

I think he's stoned. Look how much he's squinting, and he literally does not close his mouth for the entire speech. His reaction to both jokes were also a few seconds late.
posted by mrgrimm at 8:03 AM on October 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


headnsouth: The offense I take with this whole issue is that these people are legislating (or hoping to) based on their religious faith. THAT'S AGAINST THE RULES.

From the VP debate thread, benito.strauss pulled out the key paragraph from a New Yorker article that was linked by ericb:
Paul Ryan did not say, as John Kennedy had said before him, that faith was faith and public service, public service, each to be honored and kept separate from the other. No, he said instead “I don’t see how a person can separate their public life from their private life or from their faith. Our faith informs us in everything we do.” That’s a shocking answer—a mullah’s answer, what those scary Iranian “Ayatollahs” he kept referring to when talking about Iran would say as well. Ryan was rejecting secularism itself, casually insisting, as the Roman Catholic Andrew Sullivan put it, that “the usual necessary distinction between politics and religion, between state and church, cannot and should not exist.”
benito.strauss also cited parts of a 2007 speech from Romney:
Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.
The GOP is not the party of Separation of Church and State, but the party of Church Dictating to States. Also from the VP thread, roomthreeseventeen summed it up well: It's astonishing that one man would say, "I will not impose my religious views on others" and the other man does not say, "Me too."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:20 AM on October 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


What's the Difference Between a Romney 'Relief Event' and a Regular Campaign Stop?
Out of respect for the Americans put in harm's way by Hurricane Sandy, Mitt Romney's campaign events have been turned into "storm relief events." Why? "A campaign aide said there was fear that the media would look for ways to criticize the campaign if it had gone on with a full schedule," Politico's Jonathan Allen reports. What might those criticisms have been? Perhaps that Romney would be campaigning the morning after a natural disaster hit the whole East Coast? If that was the critique the campaign hoped to avoid, it's only had partial success.
posted by syzygy at 8:35 AM on October 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


The GOP is not the party of Separation of Church and State, but the party of Church Dictating to States.

The same party that's afraid of Sharia is the party that wants to put (their selected version of) the Ten Commandments in the courthouse.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:16 AM on October 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


Well, yeah. No problem with church dictating to state unless it's the wrong church.
posted by klangklangston at 9:32 AM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]






Bush’s FEMA Director During Katrina Criticizes Obama For Responding To Sandy Too Quickly

Believe it or not, that's not an Onion article.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:55 AM on October 30, 2012 [9 favorites]


Mitt Romney Refuses To Talk About FEMA After Hurricane Sandy Event

Hmm. I wonder if Romney/Ryan do plan to eliminate FEMA if elected.
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:58 AM on October 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


The Church of Brandon welcomes all you, my children.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:00 AM on October 30, 2012


I don't think that Biden speech does anything for the unconverted. He's preaching to the choir, which is fine, but it doesn't rouse me.

As much as a stink the media likes to make about undecided voters, at this point I think it's about getting out the vote of your base/leaners. I'm sure it's a lot more effective to get someone who agrees with you to bother to go vote than it is to convince someone who's conflicted.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:05 AM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


zombieflanders: "Bush’s FEMA Director During Katrina Criticizes Obama For Responding To Sandy Too Quickly

Believe it or not, that's not an Onion article.
"

That didn't just peg the chutzpah meter, it overloaded the whole gauge cluster.
posted by notsnot at 11:05 AM on October 30, 2012 [8 favorites]


Hahaha you are still doing a heck of a job Brownie.

Yeah I'm sure people that are facing burned out homes are really mad about Obama responding too quickly.
posted by vuron at 11:08 AM on October 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


I guess when your name is synonymous with massive incompetence you just double down on the stupid.
posted by Skygazer at 11:17 AM on October 30, 2012


This is so good: Some tweet advice for those GOtP-er's "who built that..."
posted by Skygazer at 11:19 AM on October 30, 2012 [7 favorites]


CNN Ticker Article: Romney speaks with FEMA
Asked Monday whether Romney held the same position he did at the June 2011 debate, Romney campaign spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg explained the candidate believes "states should be in charge of emergency management in responding to storms and other natural disasters in their jurisdictions."

"As the first responders, states are in the best position to aid affected individuals and communities, and to direct resources and assistance to where they are needed most," Henneberg said. "This includes help from the federal government and FEMA."
Quite a difference from wanting to dismantle FEMA.
posted by jetlagaddict at 11:29 AM on October 30, 2012


zombieflanders: Bush’s FEMA Director During Katrina Criticizes Obama For Responding To Sandy Too Quickly
Muh-ther-fucker! I'm trying to find out if my Grandmother is going to be able to even get to her kidney dialysis this morning given the fact that driving in her town is absolutely forbidden at this time due to all the traffic signals being down and many of the stop signs missing, and "Heckuvajob" Brownie is gonna come with some shit like that. Where is he? Denver? I can stay mad all the way to Denver…

Okay. I'm okay now. You can that the boy out of New Jersey, but you can't take the New Jersey out of the boy.

I actually can't believe these guys or the people who vote for them anymore. Isn't it obvious on its face that you "Fuck you—you're on your own" is no way to run a government, no matter if it's federal, state, or local? How in the hell are we supposed to deal with catastrophic storms or withering droughts if half the goddamn country doesn't even believe in such a thing as a political commonwealth anymore because they think blah people are getting a trillion dollars in free cash from the federal government and no amount of reasoned argument or documented facts and figures can convince them otherwise?
posted by ob1quixote at 11:39 AM on October 30, 2012 [10 favorites]


Mitt Romney Refuses To Talk About FEMA After Hurricane Sandy Event

Hmm. I wonder if Romney/Ryan do plan to eliminate FEMA if elected.


From the article:
Mitt Romney refused to answer reporters' questions about how he would handle the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), after a Tuesday "storm relief" event in Ohio for Hurricane Sandy.
Somewhere in this thread, I thought that Romney's camp had decided that they wouldn't answer questions (or maybe it was they wouldn't do any more unscripted appearances). Any way, Romney not answering reporters about FEMA follows up his refusal to answer questions about Richard Mourdock, mentioned upthread, and in the larger picture, his refusal to release actual plans for financing the government, tax plans, and his own taxes beyond the required two years.

Romney can not answer anything he wants to, and no one (important) really calls him on it. It's safe for him, because then he can't be caught in a reversal of prior comments, and there's no chance he'll sound stupid. On the other hand, you have no idea what he'd do in the given circumstance, or what he plans to do to actually balance the country's budget, or how much money he did or didn't pay beyond two years ago.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:47 AM on October 30, 2012




Obama: We leave no one behind.

Zing.
posted by Skygazer at 12:05 PM on October 30, 2012 [2 favorites]




Six days before the election, Obama and Christie will appear side-by-side.

What's that whole thing about strange bedfellows, except honestly I don't think it's so strange. They're both smart guys who value pragmatism above all else.

Also, I think Christie just doesn't have patience for bs of any kind, and I think he's had it with the Romney Campaign horseshit and I imagine he's had it with the GOP as well. I could easily, and I mean easily see him switching parties at some point or going to an "I" status..
posted by Skygazer at 12:12 PM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mildly wonder if Christie will be the next Crist.

Anyways... I'm signing off, gotta see to my mental well-being. No more election stuff for me until late election night after I'm done election judging. Undoubtedly I'll be drinking one way or the other, lets hope in celebration.

Be well oh poli-Mefis see you in about 7 days 8 hours.

(oop I see skygazer beat me to the Christie pondering)
posted by edgeways at 12:14 PM on October 30, 2012 [3 favorites]




So I can see this as Christie seeing the writing on the wall with regard to Romney and this election, and positioning himself for 2016 (in a primary fight against Ryan?). Anything that gets the two parties talking to each other & working together has got to be a good thing for the country.
posted by headnsouth at 12:17 PM on October 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


Please note: I did not accidentally screw up the link code on this one, the irony in the URL runs deep. I can't help but wonder if it's intentional and if there's a mole in the Jacksonville Union staff.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-10-30/story/ryan-fires-crowd-fernandina-beach
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:21 PM on October 30, 2012


I think the smart Republicans are probably aware that Romney is toast but don't want to be seen cheering his demise just yet because in theory he could still make a late move plus no need irritating Romney backers just yet.

But I think Christie will definitely look to use this event as a springboard for 2016.

I don't think Ryan will actually get very far in 2016, the stink of this campaign is going to be hard to wash off.

I think Christie and Rubio and Jeb Bush are the likely frontrunners at this moment for 2016 but each of them have challenges in terms of securing the base. Christie is probably as centrist of a candidate as is likely to be put forth but I think he's going to struggle to resonate with many conservative voters that will see Governor of NJ as an mark against him. Plus you can only imagine what sort of dirt people can dredge up if Christie is a governor for another term.

Jeb and Rubio have better chances of getting a bigger percentage of Latino voters which is basically a critical battleground as rocking the white male vote is no longer a reliable electoral strategy.
posted by vuron at 12:29 PM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Isn't Christie up for re-election next year? Instead of seeing this being a presidential play, wouldn't it just make sense in a blue state (federally) to be seen with Obama? Assuming the tea party isn't a big problem in the primary, being seen as bipartisan is a good thing.

That's ignoring the even more obvious reason that Obama has the authority to do something about the damage now, while Romney is bringing over a bunch of blankets from Ohio.
posted by Gary at 12:33 PM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Jeb and Rubio have better chances of getting a bigger percentage of Latino voters which is basically a critical battleground as rocking the white male vote is no longer a reliable electoral strategy.

I just don't see a way for GOP to hold together that far out. I just don't think the Social Issues Repubs and the Fiscal Repubs are going to stick it out..

Christie, also for all his smarts as shown here, is a gruff person and a tough sell to most of the Repubs, especially the Social Issues/X-tain sect on those issues and he's a tough sell period because the man simply does not do "nice" and he's possibly seen as to NE-ish, as mentioned above.

Rubio I don't know about either. I don't know if he's really that appealing to most Hispanics, I mean, I could see he and Christie putting together a new centrist vision of the GOP, but before that happens there's going to be a metaphorical war in that camp, and I don't see anyone getting out without political damage. I won't even get into what Fox will do either way...I suspect they'll try and keep this myth of a GOP going and become even more irrelevant.
posted by Skygazer at 12:43 PM on October 30, 2012


In other Trump news: Donald Trump's lawyers tried to stop BBC showing Scottish bullying film

Oh I just watched this on Sun. night. It's a great 60 minute documentary in a bloated 90 minute delivery. Bottom line is that Trump wanted to ruin people's lives and ruin the unspoilt Scottish coastline to build "the greatest golf course in the world" plus a luxury hotel and 500 new homes and in the end only one of the two golf courses planned got built for $100 million (I think dollars but it might have been pounds.) It opened in July. Nothing more is being built. The people who live there have had enormous berms pushed into place around their homes to deliberately block their view and the golf course is only so-so. If you like feeling enraged by fat cat capitalist hubris on display than by all means watch the documentary.

He is now trying to bully the Scottish Govt. out of their plans to build a wind farm off the coast because it will spoil the view.

Once you have seen the doc, read 10 Reasons Why Trumps Course Will Fail
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:50 PM on October 30, 2012


$150 million dollars. I just looked it up.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:51 PM on October 30, 2012


I just don't think the Social Issues Repubs and the Fiscal Repubs are going to stick it out.

Word. If Romney somehow wins he's going to be stuck between a lot of rocks and hard places balancing contradictory campaign promises. And if he loses, the the circular firing squad will assemble itself with lightning speed.
posted by localroger at 12:52 PM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


A base strategy just doesn't work anymore in presidential election years even though it's perfectly viable for off year elections. I think 2008 will be the high water mark for turnout for a couple more elections but changing demographics are killing Republicans when it comes to national elections. They can't continue to spot Democrats so many safe EVs moving forward especially as more and more of the Mountain and Desert Southwest shift from reliably red to battleground or even reliably blue.

Colorado and Nevada are already shifting towards the Democrats and Arizona and Texas are becoming more and more purple each election cycle (even if they'll be safely red for at least a decade more).

The Republican party has to expand it's tent even if it means softening on social issues. If Romney didn't have to tack so damned far to the right in order to placate his base in the primaries he would've actually been a much more viable candidate.

If they wait too much longer to soften their approach to Latino groups they are going to push more and more Latino voters into the reliably Democratic Voter category. Maybe going with Rubio will be enough to convince Latino voters that the entire Republican party isn't hopelessly racist but I'm not sure that identity politics will resonate that well especially since the Cuban community is significantly different in terms of political history than other Latino voting blocks.
posted by vuron at 12:57 PM on October 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


Please note: I did not accidentally screw up the link code on this one, the irony in the URL runs deep. I can't help but wonder if it's intentional and if there's a mole in the Jacksonville Union staff.

Very doubtful. You're looking at the artifact of some basic SEO filtering on the url assembly side: kill filler words to keep the url short and less common words as the indexable focus. Prepositions like "up" and "in" are just dead weight, is the reasoning. No humans required, occasionally funny/weird results are the payoff, but that's entirely an issue of the CMS writing headlines for Google.
posted by cortex at 1:08 PM on October 30, 2012 [2 favorites]






the circular firing squad will assemble itself with lightning speed.

People said this in 1992 and 2008, too.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:36 PM on October 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


Bloomberg: FEMA and Romney's Fiscal Shell Game

If certain federal government activities are "unaffordable," they don't become more affordable because state governments pick up the tab. Often, they become even less affordable -- the federal government has several fiscal advantages over states, including access to a broader tax base and an ability to borrow more cheaply.

But a downward shift of fiscal responsibilities is a key component of Romney's policy agenda, most notably in Medicaid, which he would convert into a slow-growing block grant. Over time, states would be forced to pick up an increasing share of the program's costs.

That is a very bad idea: State governments are in a much weaker position to shoulder rising health-care costs than the federal government is.

posted by Golden Eternity at 1:42 PM on October 30, 2012 [6 favorites]


The CEO of Chrysler had to release a statement to his employees to reassure them that Romney's lies about shipping Jeep jobs to China were lies.

I propose that people who are supporting Romney have no idea who they are supporting because, frankly, they can't. The man is lies wrapped in lies wrapped in lies. Unwrap all the lies and there's nothing there.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:18 PM on October 30, 2012 [10 favorites]


The Church of Brandon welcomes all you, my children.

On behalf of the Church of Brandon, please send all weekly tithes to ericb, Anointed Church Administrator.

Thank you.
posted by ericb at 2:28 PM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney Camp Going Off The Fact Checking Rails In Ohio, Benjy Sarlin, Talking Points Memo, 30 October, 2012
posted by ob1quixote at 2:47 PM on October 30, 2012




ob1quixote's link makes me think of Ibsen's Peer Gynt. At one point, the titular character starts peeling away layers of an onion looking for its stone only to find there's nothing inside. I mentioned something similar earlier, but that's Romney. There's nothing there.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:02 PM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obama tells Federal government no bureaucracy, no red tape, just get it done. It's the right thing to do and the fact that it makes him look good is only a bonus.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 3:34 PM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Why Obama Now?
posted by ericb at 3:59 PM on October 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


For those who are interested, this week on the BBCs Question Time is the US Presidential Election special. QT is a great topical panel show which almost always (last two weeks notwithstanding) generates interesting discussion. This week's special has some interesting guests:

former foreign secretary David Miliband, US television presenter and former Democratic Party mayor of Cincinnati Jerry Springer, Conservative MP Kwasi Kwarteng, Colleen Graffy, former chairman of Republicans Abroad, and Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty.

It would be worth watching just for Shami Chakrabarti, who is always excellent. It is also interesting to get the British public's take on the US election season.

This Thursday at 10:35 pm GMT (4:35 pm Central) on BBC iplayer. You can watch online using a VPN service. You can also replay it later if you can't watch it live.

I will never understand the ongoing fascination with Jerry Springer in the UK. He seems to get much more attention over there than he does here and I'm interested that they chose him as the person to "represent" the Democrats in the Election special. I know he used to be a mayor and everything, but......
posted by triggerfinger at 4:51 PM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


triggerfinger, did you ever listen to Springer's show on Air America? The man is seriously intelligent, no kidding. I've seen him speak at several Democratic events in Cincinnati and I'm always, always impressed by his understanding of the political system and his amazing, practically photographic memory of political events.
posted by cooker girl at 4:55 PM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I actually haven't, so that's fair enough. I've never heard him talk politics at all come to think of it. That makes me look forward to Thursday even more. I'm interested to see what he has to say about Romney/Ryan.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:00 PM on October 30, 2012


So, my dad and his wife live in Warren, where Mitt held a rally yesterday. I asked my stepmom if they'd gone to see him. She said, nope, took a healthy dump, which was a better use of the time. The man's message is not exactly resonating with them.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 5:00 PM on October 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


Slate: Huckabee says Christians will go to hell if they vote for Obama. I don't agree with that assesment but here are his actual words
HUCKABEE: Many issues are at stake, but some issues are not negotiable: The right to life from conception to natural death. Marriage should be reinforced, not redefined. It is an egregious violation of our cherished principle of religious liberty for the government to force the Church to buy the kind of insurance that leads to the taking of innocent human life.

Your vote will affect the future and be recorded in eternity. Will you vote the values that will stand the test of fire? This is Mike Huckabee asking you to join me November 6th and vote based on values that will stand the test of fire.
I don't think the reference to the test of fire means hellfire, but I could be wrong. What is clear is that Huckabee is telling Christians to vote against their economic and environmental interests and vote the straight Anti-abortion Ticket. This is why I do not want religion mixed in with my politics-- there is no reasoning or logic or shades of gray when people feel that God is talking to them. There is only God's way which is interpreted by someone, a pastor, a Governor, or a venial capitalist pig.

What is interesting is that he says it is wrong for the government to force the church to do something but perfectly acceptable for the church to force the government to do something. "The Church" being Huckabee's Church and religious affiliation, i.e. fundamental Baptist. There are lots of Christians and non-Christians both who would not recognize Huckabee's version of The Church.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:37 PM on October 30, 2012


Cooker Girl and Triggerfinger:

You may be interested in this segment about Jerry Springer on This American Life. Kinda sad just how far he fell.
posted by smithsmith at 5:39 PM on October 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


I will never understand the ongoing fascination with Jerry Springer in the UK.

You should check out the This American Life show with the story about Jerry Springer. It's hard to believe, and made me actually like the guy (a bit).
posted by benito.strauss at 5:41 PM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I don't think the reference to the test of fire means hellfire, but I could be wrong.

Apparantly it is a phrase from a Catholic political ad. Like I said before, Salvation not by Works, not by Grace, but by Politics.
posted by muddgirl at 5:48 PM on October 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


"We've been having an affair for so long it's as boring as our marriages" - Ana Marie Cox & Jason Linkins dissect the campaign Instagrams. Featuring "Ahmadinejad levels of obvious Photoshop fakeness."
posted by Flashman at 5:50 PM on October 30, 2012 [6 favorites]


I can't remeber whether it was this thread or the storm thread where a poster wondered how long it would take a religious leader to blame the storm on the gays. Lo and behold, someone did, although I'm not familiar with him. Not only the gays but Obama too. Yes that's right, millions have lost power, many have died, and there has been billions of dollars worth of damages all because our President is "pro-homosexual." But Pastor John McTernan is an equal opportunity hater because he says that Romney is also pro-homosexual and "behind the homosexual agenda."
Defend and Proclaim the Faith Ministries' Founder and Pastor John McTernan has blamed Hurricane Sandy on homosexuals and President Obama, reports Gay Star News.

McTernan reportedlty wrote on his blog: "If you add the area of the drought and now the hurricane together, it would be about 80 percent of the country! As I said, the Holy God of Israel is systematically destroying America right before our eyes."

"Just last August, Hurricane Isaac hit New Orleans seven years later, on the exact day of Hurricane Katrina. Both hit during the week of the homosexual event called Southern Decadence in New Orleans!"
It is amazing how predictable these religious zealots are. It is always abortion and homosexuality which will cause the US to be wiped off the face of the earth. No other countries, no other sins. Just USA and sexual freedom.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:15 PM on October 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


We were chuckling around the office that the weather in Maine will likely keep people from seeing the latest ad blitz against marriage, so GOD SENT THE HURRICANE TO HELP THE GAYS.
posted by klangklangston at 8:29 PM on October 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


> I don't think the reference to the test of fire means hellfire

Nah, it wouldn't, but to hell with his values anyway.


The Republicans outlaw simple medical procedures at their own peril:
"750,000 Americans will go offshore for medical services in 2007, with this number increasing to 6 million in 2010. It is estimated that medical tourism to Asia could generate as much as $4.4 billion by 2012, with approximately half of this revenue going to India ... "
Medical Tourism: Globalization of the Healthcare Marketplace
It's reportedly as good but cheaper even with a holiday package thrown in.
Better value for money.

Don't forget Australia. Australians have taken to medical tourism too, chasing competitive prices, nonetheless medical tourism is offered here. (Aus is sure to be cheaper than the US by way more than the cost of a return ticket, anyway.)

This is what it's come to.
posted by de at 10:44 PM on October 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


Ana Marie Cox & Jason Linkins dissect the campaign Instagrams
"Pete Souza is DYING inside, thinking that he could be replaced by whoever is talking these pictures."
"Just… focus? Could you learn to focus? I will teach you! Composition can come later!"
posted by filthy light thief at 3:02 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


It's funny to think that 538 was attacked while it showed better numbers for Romney compared to other models, but now it's converging as well. 77.4% for Obama from a low point of 61.1%. Princeton EC is down presumably due to Sandy.
posted by ersatz at 6:19 AM on October 31, 2012


Nate Silver tweeted that the rise to 77% from yesterday's 73% had a lot to do with good Obama polls in Ohio. He said that the model is especially sensitive to Ohio poll numbers. Been very happy to see that blue trend line aiming back up again away from the red trend line that is sinking.
posted by Babblesort at 6:24 AM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Not sure whether this has been mentioned, or not:

Pentagon Denies Fox News Benghazi Report
Following a pair of denials by the CIA and the National Security Council to a Fox News story published Friday, the Pentagon has come under scrutiny for its response to the assault on the U.S. compound in Benghazi. However, in a statement to The Atlantic Wire, a senior defense official says the Pentagon never rejected requests for military intervention in Benghazi. Not only that, the official said no such requests were ever made.

"The Pentagon took action by moving personnel and assets in the region shortly after it learned of the attack on the Benghazi consulate," said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity. "There was no request made for military intervention in Benghazi. To be successful, such an operation, if requested, would have required solid information about what was happening on the ground. Such clarity just wasn't available as the attack was unfolding."
posted by syzygy at 6:34 AM on October 31, 2012


Apparently in order to make sure that there was plenty of stuff at Romney's canned food drive aides made a $5000 Walmart shopping trip beforehand to make the turnout more impressive.

Obviously just sending a $5000 cash donation to the Red Cross wouldn't look as cool in a photo op.

Seriously Romney? This is Keystone Cops territory. Even as a committed Obama voter your campaign operation just seems sad and pathetic. If you had invested your huge windfall of donations more effectively you could've had a massive ground operation but it's looking more and more likely that the OFA early voter GOTV operation is going to outhustle you.
posted by vuron at 6:40 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


Obviously just sending a $5000 cash donation to the Red Cross wouldn't look as cool in a photo op.

No, it wouldn't. He's got a couple hundred million in his retirement account alone. Shouldn't he just cut a check for a couple of million or at least made some motion to match donations at least dollar for dollar at his relief event?
posted by FJT at 6:53 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


A link to the Romney campaign spends $5,000 at Wal Mart for Sandy 'Storm Benefit' story.
But the last-minute nature of the call for donations left some in the campaign concerned that they would end up with an empty truck. So the night before the event, campaign aides went to a local Wal Mart and spent $5,000 on granola bars, canned food, and diapers to put on display while they waited for donations to come in, according to one staffer. (The campaign confirmed that it "did donate supplies to the relief effort," but would not specify how much it spent.)
posted by syzygy at 6:56 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


Yep, $5000 spent in Ohio is infinitely better spent than $5000 spent by some Red Cross worker in some NY or NJ store if the photo op is the only thing you care about. I mean yeah the businessman in NY or NJ could probably use the money and those states could probably use the tax revenue and you know you wouldn't be wasting money transporting crap from one state to another but the Photo Op is the important thing.

After all those NJ and NY businessmen are probably going to be forced out of business by the economic policies of the "Kenyan Socialist" should he get elected again.
posted by vuron at 7:10 AM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


GOP Congressman Warns Of Hurricane Sandy Relief Aid Going Towards ‘Gucci Bags.' Kudos on waiting almost a whole day before starting in with this bullshit.
posted by gerryblog at 7:15 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


... the bottom would fall out of 'Gucci Bags'.
posted by de at 7:40 AM on October 31, 2012


Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic runs through a few theories as to why exactly Christ Christie is subverting Mitt Romney. Theories 1 and 2 are logical and reasonable, but I'm pretty sure that he hit the nail on the head with the at-first-glance far-fetched theory #3:
3) Chris Christie loves Bruce Springsteen. Bruce Springsteen loves Barack Obama. Bruce Springsteen does not love Chris Christie. Being overtly supportive of Barack Obama might get Chris Christie his holy grail: The approval of Springsteen, even a meeting with him. Believe me -- he'd rather meet with Springsteen than with Obama, or anyone else.
Ask yourself, would meeting The Boss not be worth throwing Mitt Romney off the bus? Exactly.
posted by Kattullus at 8:01 AM on October 31, 2012 [10 favorites]




3) Chris Christie loves Bruce Springsteen. Bruce Springsteen loves Barack Obama. Bruce Springsteen does not love Chris Christie. Being overtly supportive of Barack Obama might get Chris Christie his holy grail: The approval of Springsteen, even a meeting with him. Believe me -- he'd rather meet with Springsteen than with Obama, or anyone else.
I wholeheartedly believe this is true.
posted by sallybrown at 8:15 AM on October 31, 2012


Garrett Haake ‏@GarrettNBCNews tweets:
For those keeping score at home, today marks three weeks since Mitt Romney last took a question from a reporter.
posted by syzygy at 8:25 AM on October 31, 2012 [5 favorites]


I wholeheartedly believe this is true.

I'm torn between wanting to believe it to be true because this is so funny and refusing that there's something about Chris Christie that I might make me like him at all.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:36 AM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


For those keeping score at home, today marks three weeks since Mitt Romney last took a question from a reporter.
Is this true?
posted by fullerine at 8:37 AM on October 31, 2012


I'm not sure why Americans have such an obsession with a federal disaster relief agency.

Are the states just that bad at it? Do they not co-operate and help each other? You still have the armed forces and national guard ready to activate in times of extreme crisis and the Federal Government is still equally capable of stuffing money down the pipe for reconstruction and relief efforts.
posted by Talez at 8:45 AM on October 31, 2012


It's not that the states are "bad at it," it's that speedy rescue, relief, and recovery requires marshaling quantities of resources that would be silly for any one state to keep to itself.

Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but our military and national guard have been stretched a bit thin in recent years...
posted by tonycpsu at 8:54 AM on October 31, 2012 [8 favorites]


I'm not sure why Americans have such an obsession with a federal disaster relief agency.

There was a little something called Hurricane Katrina, which demonstrated how bad things can get when FEMA isn't properly run. People are getting rightfully upset at any hint of playing political games or privatizing.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:57 AM on October 31, 2012 [8 favorites]


I think the Christie using Obama as a way to curry Springsteen's favor is ridiculous and surely it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. #2 is much more likely.

My mom is a journalist long familiar with NJ politics, and she floated a theory last night that I think is far more viable: that the emergency happened, and there was a phone conversation between Christie and Obama that went something like this:

"Chris, I know you're interested in running for President in 2016. A lot of your campaign will hinge on how well you've run your state. You're in serious trouble, and you're asking for my help right now. I can declare a state of emergency pre-emptively and make the wheels turn a whole lot faster, getting you aid and lines of credit and support immediately to deal with storm prep and aftermath, in which case you'll come out of this looking really good. Or I can stay hands-off, in which case you and your small-government philosophy will come out looking pretty bad. Let me know which way you'd like this to play out."

It might have been gentler. It might have been "I'm about to pick up the phone to declare a state of emergency right now and all the aid and attention that comes along with that is going to start flowing right to you right now. But I can't have you going around badmouthing my administration after that happens."

But personally I actually doubt it was gentler. I think Obama had hand here, and he justifiably used it.
posted by Miko at 9:05 AM on October 31, 2012 [4 favorites]


Also, I don't think even this would make Springsteen agree to meet with Christie. He really hates Christie.
posted by Miko at 9:07 AM on October 31, 2012


The Making Of Romney's Storm Relief Event: A scramble to depoliticize a political campaign, and $5,000 in supplies from Wal-Mart. “Just grab something.”
But the last-minute nature of the call for donations left some in the campaign concerned that they would end up with an empty truck. So the night before the event, campaign aides went to a local Wal-Mart and spent $5,000 on granola bars, canned food, and diapers to put on display while they waited for donations to come in, according to one staffer. (The campaign confirmed that it "did donate supplies to the relief effort," but would not specify how much it spent.)
Just keep Ryan away form the blood drive.

Romney’s lax regulation may have fueled meningitis outbreak: A meningitis epidemic that has killed 25 is linked to a Mass. company Romney's administration failed to regulate

FINALLY.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:08 AM on October 31, 2012


Springsteen might not agree to meet with Christie one-on-one, but I can easily see a scenario where Springsteen agrees to do a benefit concert to aid NJ and Christie would logically be a part of that.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 9:12 AM on October 31, 2012


You also have to consider that frequently these disasters span multiple states, and in the case of maybe a small eastern seaboard state if the whole state is literally crippled by the effects of the disaster a federal agency can coordinate a response much easier.

That and you can have states all using the same system, in this case the Incident Command System, so that you can have fluid movement of people and resources amongst states. I don't think you 'd get that if it were a free for all.

I've seen ICS work up close and it is amazing. When you walk into a war room surrounded by folding tables each with its own placard identifying who is sitting there (for example Coast Guard, FEMA, BLM, NWS, NASA, EPA, etc) it is really something to behold. Having all those agencies sitting across from each other and working cooperatively is pretty darn beneficial.
posted by Big_B at 9:12 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


That relief-event story is really gross. The part about not being able to greet the candidate in line unless you were visibly holding a donation, so "just grab something"
posted by Miko at 9:14 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


You and your mom probably know far better than I, but to me it seems like this is where Obama's demeanor and unwillingness to slam the republicans when we all (including me) wanted him to during the debates. We wanted to hear him talk about the obstructionism and just really go in on them for the bs they pull. But instead he just keeps hammering home working with republicans to get things done.

I believed, but did not say that part of it is that whole idea that what do you do if the other party that democrats have known so long is destroyed or goes away, but a better thought is that it is moments like these that brings home why he continues to do that.

Christie seems genuinely dismayed by the devastation in the state he grew up in. I've only seen him speak live when there are dangerous storms on the way, but in all honesty it seems like he genuinely liked that Obama was there to help, and he felt like he had backup to repair and help fix what has been wrecked. It's one thing seeing it on tv. It's one thing seeing places looked wrecked, when you didn't know what they looked like before. It's another thing to see it and know what it looked like before, having grown up there.

I think what probably surprised and touched Christie was Obama reaching out, being a calm, constructive voice, and doing it in the manner he normally does things - with a genuine sense of purpose, a skill with handling multiple tasks, departments and systems, and an ability to make you feel like someone is in control. I think that softened Christie, and he really appreciated it.
posted by cashman at 9:14 AM on October 31, 2012 [8 favorites]


Springsteen would probably be justified in being afraid that some event now might help Christie in 2016 so if they did meet it probably wouldn't be a photo-op but I think a benefit concert is probably a given.

I mean come on "The Rising" is pretty much custom made for this sort of thing.
posted by vuron at 9:15 AM on October 31, 2012


Springsteen might not agree to meet with Christie one-on-one, but I can easily see a scenario where Springsteen agrees to do a benefit concert to aid NJ and Christie would logically be a part of that.

From separate studios, maybe. Who knows, time will tell. I have to honestly doubt that this was a motivating factor, though.
posted by Miko at 9:15 AM on October 31, 2012


We wanted to hear him talk about the obstructionism and just really go in on them for the bs they pull. But instead he just keeps hammering home working with republicans to get things done.

By all accounts he is a serious and tough negotiator behind the scenes, at the same time. I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. He's dedicated to getting things done, and this is how things get done.
posted by Miko at 9:17 AM on October 31, 2012


fullerine: Is this true?

I haven't confirmed it for myself, but I gave you the source. I wouldn't doubt the veracity of the story. Honestly, I don't recall the last time Romney answered reporters' questions directly. It's mostly been campaign spokespeople for some time now, and there was a minor news kerfluffle a few days ago about Romney's campaign announcing that they didn't plan to confirm any more interview appointments in the near future.

So, I can't confirm it. I'd like to know, as well.
posted by syzygy at 9:19 AM on October 31, 2012


Christie's reactions just seemed to be pretty genuine, not like he felt forced to say the things he was saying.
posted by cashman at 9:20 AM on October 31, 2012 [3 favorites]


I highly doubt Obama put any strings on help to New Jersey in conversations with christie, either implied or otherwise. Christie would have called him out on it. Christie is a smart guy, he is looking at 2016 like everyone else. He knows that rebuilding New Jersey would put him in the top tier for the presidential campaign, and he has plausible deniability for torpedoing Romney right now.
posted by empath at 9:21 AM on October 31, 2012


I agree they're genuine, but he's been going out of his way to praise Obama, not just express genuine gratitude but specifically call him out. But of course they're genuine; this is any leader's worst nightmare, and generally people from New Jersey do have a great love for New Jersey, governor not excepted.
posted by Miko at 9:22 AM on October 31, 2012


I just want to say, I have a little bit of a crush on Ohio State Senator Nina Turner.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:27 AM on October 31, 2012 [4 favorites]


Sandy/Election thread.
posted by cashman at 9:27 AM on October 31, 2012 [3 favorites]


He knows that rebuilding New Jersey would put him in the top tier for the presidential campaign

Exactly. He needs the support.
posted by Miko at 9:28 AM on October 31, 2012


I'm looking forward to articles about presidential candidates for 2016. Bet we'll see some right after the election.
posted by ersatz at 10:03 AM on October 31, 2012


I just want to say, I have a little bit of a crush on Ohio State Senator Nina Turner.

Saw this last night. My wife and I both, literally, clapped and whistled after she spoke.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 10:05 AM on October 31, 2012


I'm from North Jersey, and seeing the boardwalk destroyed -- much less the rest of the state -- has really affected me. I can easily imagine Christie simply being moved by the disaster and genuinely gratified by Obama's support. And as I mentioned in the other thread, Christie also knows that his only hope for significant federal stimulus for his state is under an Obama administration.

I don't think 2016 enters into it anywhere but in reporters' stupid heads. You'd have to be totally sociopathic, even by the low standards of politicians, to be thinking that way in the immediate aftermath of an unprecedented disaster in your home state. And if Christie's that cynical and bloodless, he knows he'll never win a GOP primary anyway.
posted by gerryblog at 10:06 AM on October 31, 2012 [6 favorites]


The Bruce theory is hilarious, though. I love the idea that everything Christie does is a screwed-up bid to win the Boss's love.
posted by gerryblog at 10:07 AM on October 31, 2012 [6 favorites]


Romney Locks Up 1980s Lying Car Salesman Vote
Apparently, Joe Isuzu finds a lot to like in Mitt Romney's fast-and-loose approach to political truthiness. Thanks to Leisure and comedy producer Martin Lewis, the car salesman is back to endorse the GOP presidential candidate with some more Joe-like promises.

Of course, this isn't the first time Joe Isuzu has penetrated the American political consciousness. The pop-culture character inspired this line of attack against Vice President George H.W. Bush's pie-in-the-sky fiscal plan by Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis in a 1988 presidential debate

Given how that race turned out for Dukakis, Joe Isuzu's political influence was as effective as an underpowered compact pickup truck.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:46 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


Romney Camp: Pay No Attention To The Auto Companies Calling Us Liars, Benjy Sarlin, Talking Points Memo, 31 October, 2012
Two auto companies made a surprise foray into the presidential campaign on Tuesday, bluntly calling out Mitt Romney for his deceptive Ohio ads that suggest they plan to ship local jobs to China. But according to the Romney campaign, there’s nothing to see here.

“Their comments don’t refute anything in our ad,” spokeswoman Andrea Saul told the Detroit News on Wednesday.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:59 AM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]






I know that Nate Silver, Princeton Election Consortium et. al, give Obama a high probability of winning. Does anyone know if the voter supression efforts that have been in full force are expected to impact the outcome at all? Have the stats guys taken this into consideration? This may have been addressed somewhere but I'm on information overload at the moment and can't remember seeing anything about it.
posted by triggerfinger at 11:19 AM on October 31, 2012


Does anyone know if the voter supression efforts that have been in full force are expected to impact the outcome at all? Have the stats guys taken this into consideration?

I don't have a link, but Nate had a post several months ago specifically on that subject and said in his estimation even the best voter suppression efforts would only be on the order of 1% or less. Keep in mind that most of the worst suppression efforts were laughed out of court and that the legal playing field today is not that different from 2008.
posted by gerryblog at 11:21 AM on October 31, 2012


538 post from July about voter ID laws
posted by dfan at 11:22 AM on October 31, 2012


link.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:24 AM on October 31, 2012


Marquette university, who correctly predicted the outcome of the Walker recall to the percentage, has Obama up 8% in Wisconsin.
posted by drezdn at 11:40 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


Thanks everyone, that's what I was looking for. It looks like Nate applies this possibility to the "state fundamentals" and though he says the effect is small, it seems as though even one or two percentage points could tip swing states like Virginia or Colorado. And that's just the voter ID laws, which doesn't include all the other dirty tactics that are being used to keep people from voting, some of which are outlined here.

Voter intimidation tactics may not be measurable, but it is something I worry about. The recent New Yorker article on voter fraud says that 28,000 ballots in one county in Florida in the 2000 election were uncounted because officials decided they had not been filled out correctly. From everything I've read about voter fraud, ballots are declared fraudulent and abandoned for non-issues and not geniune fraud more often than not. Al Gore would have won the election if even a portion of the discarded ballots had been counted.

Anyway, I do worry about this. I feel like I've read lots of reports about people getting calls that their polling station has changed or whatever. It may not make a big difference, but I don't really think it needs to.

I hope someone has some soothing words for me.
posted by triggerfinger at 11:52 AM on October 31, 2012


Re: voter suppression:

As long as the effect this year isn't worse than previous years, the effect is already baked into the model, because it would have been seen in previous cycles.
posted by empath at 11:59 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


I disagree, empath. It has been well documented the numerous changes to laws and new efforts that have been started to suppress the vote, intimidate voters, and stop new registrations. And even still, I have yet to see any article at all point out that in some places (like Pennsylvania), an online registration system had to be scrapped because of Voter ID - because the state couldn't handle doing both, and it had to handle Voter ID.

In Florida, Maddow has documented how much of an impact laws had that put ridiculous and unnecessary restrictions on the process of registering voters.

There is definitely going to be a notable effect. I noted when Nate produced that post that he neglected to consider or even mention so many different aspects of what republicans are trying to do to suppress the vote. But Nate is a numbers guy, and this is more of a qualitative thing, I think, to look at all these things together.

I am hoping for the best and expecting the worst. I suggest people take pictures and video the next week, and report everything you see happening. We have an incredible way to communicate across cities, states and regions, to tell each other what is happening and what to do next. To give one another information and updates on what the laws actually are, and provide each other methods for making sure things get done how they are supposed to get done. To make sure that people aren't scared away from the polls by the uninformed or misled, and to make sure that systematic roadblocks aren't being put up to curtail voting.

I hope someone has some soothing words for me.

In all likelihood, if you want to make calls, canvas this weekend, remind people to vote or volunteer for the campaign, it will only be a few hours of your time, for 5 whole days.
posted by cashman at 12:29 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Cashman, they do that every year and its balanced out in a lot of cases by early voting which is increasing turn out among poor people who can go straight to the polling booths after church or whatever. I can't imagine it would have more than a fraction of a percent change in either direction.
posted by empath at 12:51 PM on October 31, 2012


I don't think they do, but regardless I hope you're correct in believing the effect will be minimal.
posted by cashman at 1:00 PM on October 31, 2012


Christie is so done in the GOP in it's present incarnation, but it's present incarnation is unsustainable and I think Christie basically is at this moment lighting a fuse and walking away from that shithouse which is going to blow with the force of Superstorm Sandy on the American political landscape.

I think it's great. Christie is literally the heft and genuine battering ram to help in breaking through all the partisanship and Obstruction that Obama's had to deal with for his whole first term...

This could be a great thing for the country if these two join forces, I mean really great.
posted by Skygazer at 1:35 PM on October 31, 2012 [3 favorites]


I don't think they do, but regardless I hope you're correct in believing the effect will be minimal.

Obviously the effect of 'voter suppression' is huge, espcially if we include all the barriers to voting (in-advance registration, requiring an address, etc. etc. etc.). But the question was, "Does polling reflect this voter suppression?" I think that 'likely voter' polls seem to generally do a good job actually polling people that will be able to vote.
posted by muddgirl at 2:14 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Or rather, "Does polling account for this voter suppression?"
posted by muddgirl at 2:15 PM on October 31, 2012


As far as discounting votes and the reasons, I just saw a News report here in Florida that spoke to that issue. They said the expectation is that *hundreds* of absentee votes will be discarded.

Absentee votes are being inspected right now. If a voter sending in an absentee vote did not remember to sign the absentee ballot in the right place (which is NOT on the ballot itself, but on part of the absentee vote envelope), the vote will be discarded. However, if the signature is there, but does not match the signature on file for your voter registration card, that vote will be discarded, too.

I'm voting in person, but my spouse, who will be out of state and mailing in an absentee vote, is now wondering if he included his middle initial in his signature originally or not, and does that count as "not matching" or does it have to be some really flagrant difference in the handwriting for your vote to be thrown out?

Early voting lines here are also quite long, because the ballot is two long pages of proposed amendments (most of them asinine, IMO, here in my state, things that don't require amendments at all) and local referandums, and many of the news outlets are making a big deal about the long lines and the lack of parking, which doesn't exactly make people more enthusiastic about the importance of that option being available.

As far as the practices being accounted for in the voting process and equaling out, empath, I completely disagree with you on that. I was already skeptical after the 2000 elections in Florida, but after looking into what went on behind the scenes in that election, I am absolutely certain that voter disenfranchisement was, is and will continue to be a huge problem in the US. This, in my opinion, is borne out by the "Photo ID required to vote" conflicts playing out right now, despite in-person voter fraud being a large non-existent problem.
posted by misha at 2:17 PM on October 31, 2012




As far as the practices being accounted for in the voting process and equaling out, empath, I completely disagree with you on that. I was already skeptical after the 2000 elections in Florida, but after looking into what went on behind the scenes in that election, I am absolutely certain that voter disenfranchisement was, is and will continue to be a huge problem in the US.

But why do you think that past examples of voter disenfranchisement indicate it's not factored into the polling? Sure the opposite is likely to be the case?
posted by howfar at 2:26 PM on October 31, 2012


Paul Ryan hunts with a hand gun?

That sounds like a really nice way to make sure the deer runs off wounded and suffering so you have to track it and put it out of its misery. But it sounds oh so manly, so obviously Paul Ryan loves it!
posted by jason_steakums at 2:37 PM on October 31, 2012 [5 favorites]


Oh, and one more thing, I'm sorry. I meant to mention that the early voting hours here were shortened, and cut off the Saturday before election day:
The Legislature last year reduced the number of days from 14 to eight, ending on a Saturday three days before the Nov. 6 election. The state had required 96 hours of early voting but the law was changed to allow at least 48 hours and a maximum of 96, while eliminating early voting on the last Sunday before Election Day...

Gov. Rick Scott’s administration spent a year and nearly $500,000 in legal fees successfully defending the shorter eight-day schedule from lawsuits by the Justice Department and advocacy groups that claimed it was a Republican plot to suppress voter turnout.

The judges said that if a county cut early voting to as little as six hours a day, it would be analogous to "closing polling places in disproportionately African-American precincts ... [and] would impose a sufficiently material burden to cause some reasonable minority voters not to vote."

In their August decision, the justices noted that in the 2008 presidential election in Florida, black voters voted early at twice the rate of white voters and were much more likely to vote in the first five days of the early voting period — the days that state lawmakers eliminated...(via)
So right now early voting hours are all over the place and vary from 48 to 96 hours depending on what county you live in.

Also, 1500 convicted felons were removed from the voting rolls this election in our area. Supposedly. I mean, they say the names are all those of convicted felons, but we've been through this before, and hundreds of people, mostly blacks, were erroneously put on those lists.

If that is not fishy enough for you, the guy responsible for the bill shortening the early voting hours? He's the same guy behind the felon voter purge list debacle in the 2000 Bush/Gore elections.

"In 2001, Mitchell was identified in testimony before the U.S. Civil Rights Commission as the person who directed the creation of the felons purge list that led to thousands in Florida being erroneously identified as possible felons, their names included on lists used to reduce the voter rolls. A disproportionately high number of those people were blacks, who are traditionally Democratic voters."

AND he's the guy behind this new provisional ballot scam:
Backers of that provisional ballot requirement say it will help prevent double-voting by one person but while giving his deposition, Mitchell said he could not name one instance of double-voting in Florida.

“Were you aware of any instances of any voters in Florida voting twice in a single election?” he was asked by League of Women Voters attorney Daniel O’Connor.

“Not specifically, no,” Mitchell responded.

“Were you aware of any other types of fraud or misconduct by voters who moved and attempted to update their address at a polling place and vote that same day?” O’Connor asked.
“No,” Mitchell responded.

Opponents of the provisional ballot rule also point to the number of such ballots that end up thrown out. Data that emerged during the deposition indicated that of 35,635 provisional ballots cast in 2008, only 17,312 provisional ballots were counted, or 48.58 percent. (via)
posted by misha at 2:41 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Or rather, "Does polling account for this voter suppression?"

The biggest difference between conservative polls and other polls seems to be the registered but unlikely to vote category. It seems scary to me that voter suppression could succeed and be explained away as the notoriously unreliable voting patterns of the Democratic base.

I wonder how the polls account for people who may have been purged from registration rolls and not know it.

Secretary of State under fire over ‘inactive’ voters
Rule allows clerks to skip mailing to ‘inactive’ voters


Voters are labeled inactive because they did not vote in the previous even-year general election and failed to respond to two postcard notifications asking for an update on their status. Gessler says Colorado law is explicit in detailing that county clerks should not be mailing ballots to those voters.
posted by Golden Eternity at 2:46 PM on October 31, 2012




LMAO, futz. That's fantastic.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:43 PM on October 31, 2012


That is a thing of BEAUTY futz!
posted by triggerfinger at 3:43 PM on October 31, 2012


I am now walking around my house with my arm extended and my hand in an open fist, and just saying "right in the nut sack".
posted by cashman at 3:47 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Voters are labeled inactive because they did not vote in the previous even-year general election and failed to respond to two postcard notifications asking for an update on their status. Gessler says Colorado law is explicit in detailing that county clerks should not be mailing ballots to those voters.

Again, I'm not arguing that voter suppression is not something that disenfranchises voters - that it doesn't exist. But these tactics have been going on for at least as long as I've been voting and paying attention. The Colorado 'inactive voter' thing is something that happened in many states 4 years ago, IIRC. It should be relatively quantifiable by pollsters.
posted by muddgirl at 3:48 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


(Something that I have to remind myself is that national polls, like the Gallup "likely voter" poll, are essentially meaningless - they're news cycle fodder. Presidents aren't elected based on the popular vote. What's important are likely voter polls in battleground states.)
posted by muddgirl at 3:54 PM on October 31, 2012


Yeah, and even then taking the median makes more sense than focusing on the Gallup poll. RAND regularly has Obama +5 but no one's making a fuss about it as no one should. Anyway, the most recent post of Nate Silver discusses the 'discrepancy' between popular vote and electoral vote (though he finds that Obama is still getting marginally the PV too). The most interesting part of the post is that he includes individual forecasts for all states by 7 sites that make state-poll-based predictions.
posted by ersatz at 4:01 PM on October 31, 2012


The national polls are mostly valuable as a way to infer what is happening in states without recent polling (ie, it's safe to assume that if Obama is down nationally, then he is also down in each state by a predictable factor)
posted by empath at 4:01 PM on October 31, 2012


After the election (because now isn't the time) I'd love to see some background on the depth of previous voter suppression efforts by republicans. The language I've seen speaks of firsts and novel changes and never before tried tactics. But we can talk about it after the election.
posted by cashman at 4:04 PM on October 31, 2012


You know what I miss? I miss all those videos from before where they would be in lines at republican events, and asking the people questions about the candidates statements and plans, and the person would be told what Palin said and have no idea. Or they would be completely wrong about what the republican plan was.

With Mitt saying one thing one day and his campaign coming out with something completely opposite the next day, you'd think there would be many opportunities for this. But maybe the crowds learned from last time and stopped talking on camera.

Nobody's supporters are perfect or know every detail of every plan, but the questions weren't about some intimate detail, it was mainstream stuff. It would be so interesting to have the people who attend Mitt & Ryan's rallies asked to describe his tax plan (there isn't one) or asked about preexisting condition coverage and other things that Mitt just tries to be on both sides of. Or asked if they knew Ryan worked with Akin, or any number of things.

Maybe Maddow or Stewart will do it.
posted by cashman at 4:28 PM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


It might have been gentler. It might have been "I'm about to pick up the phone to declare a state of emergency right now and all the aid and attention that comes along with that is going to start flowing right to you right now. But I can't have you going around badmouthing my administration after that happens."

Yeah, there is absolutely no way this happened. The idea that Obama would have held Federal relief to ransom like that is ludicrous and, quite frankly, offensive.
posted by smithsmith at 4:34 PM on October 31, 2012 [9 favorites]




Oh my goodness, futz... thank you.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:41 PM on October 31, 2012


Mr. Ryan also likes to challenge himself by shooting with his revolver. “He likes hunting with a handgun,” Mr. Olcott said of his brother-in-law. “He’ll carry his .357 in the stand -- in a holster -- and wait for a deer comes in range for a handgun, which is more like bow range, 30 yards or closer,” said Mr. Olcott. “He’s shot a lot of deer with his handgun. He really likes that.”

Mr. Ryan also owns a 9mm Glock for home self defense. He sometimes brings the pistol from Wisconsin to the Oklahoma to do target shooting at the ranch’s 100-yard outdoor range.
Great, just great. Am I wrong in thinking that hunting deer with a handgun is a bit creepy? I don't hunt, but the idea of using a handgun seems...odd.

Also, Ryan protecting his home with a Glock? He really fancies himself as a hero, doesn't he. I can totally picture him with his red baseball cap facing backwards and his tank top and ear buds and his Glock as he stares at himself in the mirror. "Make my day, punk."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:46 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Maybe Rep John "Rape Thing" Koster was trying to sound cool to Gen X by quoting STP's Sex Type Thing.

Pro-Tip - its never cool to quote STP.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:02 PM on October 31, 2012




Great, just great. Am I wrong in thinking that hunting deer with a handgun is a bit creepy?

Super creepy.

I wonder if he imagines he's shooting a person. I bet he does.

Ryan's preparing for the tea zombie apocalypse.
posted by Skygazer at 5:12 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]



Five inside-the-Beltway indicators of a Romney victory

Key information at the end of the article: Tom Readmond is a Republican consultant and strategist. He resides in Arlington, Virginia.
posted by winna at 5:12 PM on October 31, 2012 [8 favorites]


After the election (because now isn't the time) I'd love to see some background on the depth of previous voter suppression efforts by republicans. The language I've seen speaks of firsts and novel changes and never before tried tactics. But we can talk about it after the election.

Disclaimer: I haven't read these yet, I'm just compiling them for our future discussions on this (which I look forward to).

The GOP War on Voting

A Recent History of GOP Voter Suppression in Florida

The Strange Career of Voter Suppression

A Ballot Box Tactic Has Deep Historical Roots

posted by triggerfinger at 5:13 PM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


Five inside-the-Beltway indicators of a Romney victory

By random guy that works for Grover Norquist.
posted by empath at 5:13 PM on October 31, 2012 [6 favorites]


The idea that Obama would have held Federal relief to ransom like that is ludicrous and, quite frankly, offensive.

Offensive partly because it suggests he's an idiot. High risk, low benefit. That sort of story in public could do Obama enough harm to turn a win into a loss. He has been the favourite to win all the way through, he'd have to be an absolute fucking maniac to pull shit like that while ahead in the race. And a sociopath.
posted by howfar at 5:15 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Five inside-the-Beltway indicators of a Romney victory

Yeah, that article was very light on the substance. "Some People are talking about Thing X therefore ROMNEY!"

What was the bit about Romnoms being ahead in early voting, though? I hadn't heard that, and I get the feeling he's conveniently leaving out some qualifier like "ahead in early voting in solidly red states" or something.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:15 PM on October 31, 2012




Brandon is just trying to wind us up now.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:20 PM on October 31, 2012 [5 favorites]


Yeah, that last article was from the dude who was scolded by the President of Ireland.
posted by winna at 5:21 PM on October 31, 2012 [4 favorites]


What was the bit about Romnoms being ahead in early voting, though?

In U.S., 15% of Registered Voters Have Already Cast Ballots
Early voting highest in the West and among seniors; similar by party ID
Political Impact of Early Voting Looks Minimal

By 19% to 15%, a slightly higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats have already voted. When those who intend to vote before Election Day are factored in, the gap is similar: 37% of Republicans vs. 33% of Democrats.

However, when one looks at the voting intentions of likely voters according to candidate support, the political impact for the two candidates appears to be roughly equal. Of Barack Obama's supporters, 15% have already voted and a total of 33% indicate they will vote early. Of Mitt Romney's supporters, the figures are 17% and 34%, respectively.
Much more at the link.
posted by cashman at 5:23 PM on October 31, 2012


Countertpoint Romney is toast. Americans rally round the President in a national crisis.
posted by humanfont at 5:23 PM on October 31, 2012


Brandon is just trying to wind us up now.

Yep.

BB's cruisin' for a bruisin'.
posted by Skygazer at 5:24 PM on October 31, 2012


Great, just great. Am I wrong in thinking that hunting deer with a handgun is a bit creepy? I don't hunt, but the idea of using a handgun seems...odd.

It is odd. And somehow I doubt he's ever taken a deer. It's unprovable, though. WI allows party hunting (pdf).

Anyway, hunting deer in this state is a joke. Boring as shit and the deer are so accustomed to people that they'll almost walk up to you.

Better to go out west - they're larger, harder to find, and you'll never get close enough for handgun range.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 5:25 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm surprised Brandon didn't link dick Morris's hilariously stupid prediction.
posted by empath at 5:26 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Nah, amused by these predictions, wanted to share what the other side is saying.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:30 PM on October 31, 2012


Thanks, cashman! Important to note that it's Gallup, who have been giving Romney a total outlier of a lead this last month, and even they're saying "meh, early voting's pretty likely to be about equal for both candidates".
posted by jason_steakums at 5:46 PM on October 31, 2012


Nah, amused by these predictions, wanted to share what the other side is saying.

It is amusing stuff. Here's another of this political manipulation as commentary: Romney will Win

The writer's bio explains it all at the end:

Frank Donatelli is chairman of GOPAC, an organization dedicated to educating and electing the next generation of Republican leaders.

I expect many more of these BS pieces will make appearances in an effort to create the idea of a ground swell and momentum for the Romster.
posted by Skygazer at 5:46 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Five inside-the-Beltway indicators of a Romney victory

My favourite part in this article about how assured Romney's victory is is that the first point he gives is that there is an influx of editorial fluffpieces touting how sure Romney's victory is.
posted by Theta States at 5:48 PM on October 31, 2012 [4 favorites]


I really don't understand the triumphalist fantasy of these people. I don't think they can all actually believe it, even allowing for the epistemic closure of the right-wing media. So what's the tactical advantage of saying it? The reality is a relatively close election with Obama in the lead. If the Right want Romney to win, surely they should produce a cautiously optimistic narrative likely to motivate their base, which is probably what's most important at this point in the campaign. The closed media loop many right-wingers live means that many lower information members of the Republican base will be buying this shit, and some of them may well not vote because of it.

The only explanations that make sense to me are utter desperation and utter cynicism. As even desperation doesn't make that much sense, is it really cynicism? Planning for the "stolen election" narrative? Well, maybe, but I'm not sure why they'd perceive the good it maybe at some point does them as being worth potentially damaging their chance of, y'know, actually getting Romney for president.
posted by howfar at 5:52 PM on October 31, 2012


Meanwhile, Intrade just hit 69.5% for Obama, up 8.5% on the day.
posted by Golden Eternity at 5:57 PM on October 31, 2012


Nah, amused by these predictions, wanted to share what the other side is saying.

Ultimate Christie conspiracy: Breitbart.com has one whopper of a theory as to why the New Jersey governor has praised Obama so effusively
posted by homunculus at 5:57 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's amazing that all these right-wing blogs and commentators have managed to write the exact same story on the same day, citing the same Rasmussen and Gallup polls as their 'evidence', amazing!
posted by TwoWordReview at 6:03 PM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


Nobody hunts deer with a handgun.* You hunt deer with a rifle. Anybody who has ever actually shot a deer, tried to shoot a deer, or knows anyone well who has ever tried to shoot a deer will instantly spot this as a direct lie on the order of Nancy Reagan's "little gun." The problem with this attempt to dogwhistle the gunfolk is that it insults the gunfolks' intelligence while (they will know) making them look bad to non-gunfolk.

* I do know a guy who took down a deer with a pistol. It was his backup weapon though, and he used it only because his rifle jammed and the deer was directly under his deer stand. He was justifiably proud of getting a clean kill.
posted by localroger at 6:05 PM on October 31, 2012


Here is a sad little article about Ryan's challenger for the Wisconsin Representative seat. Ryan isn't around to campaign against and it appears as though he will be re-elected without making the slightest effort.
At first Zerban looked like he might make Ryan take him seriously. He raised $2.1 million, less than Ryan’s $4.9 million but enough to generate some respect. He built a platform based on campaign finance reform, congressional term limits and preserving Medicare and Social Security.

Then, on Aug. 10, everything changed with Romney’s choice. As Ryan embarked on his national campaign, the congressional race faded into the background, even in the district itself. A hand-written sign in the window of the GOP’s Janesville campaign office reads ‘‘Yes, Paul Ryan is running for Congress.’’
Right now Zerban has committed to doing one hour of community service per day until the election, it is a smart move to get him talked about without spending any money but I'm afraid it won't do a bit of good. It is another one of those races where the Democratic National committee has made a calculated decision not to spend a dime.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:09 PM on October 31, 2012


You know, the thing with Christie was probably more like "Governor, I know we've had our differences, but your state will get all the relief we can provide to keep your people safe and restore their status. I know you've been tepid about federal aid in the past and I hope you won't be in this case."
posted by localroger at 6:12 PM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


...and, of course, without necessarily saying it out loud, Christie realizing what Bush or Romney would have said by comparison.
posted by localroger at 6:13 PM on October 31, 2012


Is it really so hard to accept that Obama probably offered unqualified support to Chris Christie, without making some crass veiled dig at Christie's previous politics?
posted by smithsmith at 6:23 PM on October 31, 2012 [4 favorites]


I think I'm going to hang out on the RCP page that shows state by state polling with links, updated daily, and then do the create-your-own map thing each day.
posted by cashman at 6:30 PM on October 31, 2012


Is it really so hard to accept that Obama probably offered unqualified support to Chris Christie, without making some crass veiled dig at Christie's previous politics?

....yes. It's unrealistic.

We're thinking about it; pundits are thinking about it; but this is Obama's and Christie's job, career, life, legacy. Of course they're thinking about all of that.
posted by Miko at 6:42 PM on October 31, 2012


Is it really so hard to accept that Obama probably offered unqualified support to Chris Christie, without making some crass veiled dig at Christie's previous politics?

....yes. It's unrealistic.


Why? If we accept that the extortion theory makes no sense (and it makes no sense to me) why should we accept a watered down version of it? What benefit does Obama get from saying "I hope you won't be in this case" or whatever? He just hands Christie a card to potentially use against him.
posted by howfar at 6:45 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


The problem with Zerban's run is that Ryan gets essentially free press every day from the national media. The people in his district know he's there and he got a huge boost in prestige by being tapped. So Zerban's just not able to get much traction as local media gets blotted out by the national stuff.
posted by klangklangston at 6:47 PM on October 31, 2012


What benefit does Obama get from saying "I hope you won't be in this case" or whatever?

This, I think, is obvious. The election is six days from now.

He just hands Christie a card to potentially use against him.

Only if it's a quid pro quo. Instead, it's probably more of a guilt trip.

I honestly think it's pretty naive to think that either or both of them is unaware of the dynamic, the optics, and the stakes of all of this, both personally, politically, and for the people who need help.

It's the rare case where both have vastly more to gain by cooperating than either does by granstanding on abstract principle.
posted by Miko at 6:47 PM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


I honestly think it's pretty naive to think that either or both of them is unaware of the dynamic, the optics, and the stakes of all of this, both personally, politically, and for the people who need help.

But that doesn't mean that he'd say it. Why does he need to say it? What on earth does he stand to gain? Saying it isn't going to force Christie to do anything, isn't going to change a blind thing in this universe apart from allowing Christie to say, now or at a later date "Obama said that I should do a political favour for help".

If anything, if seems naive to imagine that politicians need to voice every unspoken truth that runs through their heads. They both understand the stakes, why talk about them?
posted by howfar at 6:50 PM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


I think it's also likely that because they're both aware of that, very little has to be actually articulated on the point. Obama gets to offer aid without strings attached, because if Christie acts the fool, he can torch him. Likewise, Christie knows that he's getting away with being a dick about all the prior stuff and knows where to hitch his wagon when the going's rough.
posted by klangklangston at 6:51 PM on October 31, 2012 [3 favorites]


But that doesn't mean that he'd say it. Why does he need to say it?

Maybe he doesn't. But these folks do have conversations. I don't know what was said or not said. I do know what much of the subtext is, though, and so do they. If Obama at any point needed to make anything clear, I am sure he did.

I would have a different point of view on this if Christie's stance had ever been moderate, bipartisan, or otherwise favorable to Obama. It hasn't.
posted by Miko at 6:53 PM on October 31, 2012


Miko: Occam's Razor - Christie was openly positive about Obama's support because Obama's support was positive and proactive.

Speculating anything more is cloud cuckoo land wingnut territory.
posted by smithsmith at 6:55 PM on October 31, 2012 [7 favorites]


"I cannot thank the president enough for his personal concern and his compassion," said Christie, known for his blunt, in-your-face political style, after the two men completed their tour.

He said the affected areas needed clean drinking water, restored power, and children back in school. "I discussed all of those issues today with the president and I'm pleased to report that he has sprung into action immediately to help get us those things while we were in the car riding together," Christie said.
In the car riding. Christie talking.

The President can place those calls, or just listen and nod.
posted by Miko at 6:55 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Speculating anything more is cloud cuckoo land wingnut territory.

Eh, if I didn't grow up in a household of reporters I'd probably agree with you on that.
posted by Miko at 6:56 PM on October 31, 2012


Oh la-di-da.
posted by smithsmith at 6:58 PM on October 31, 2012


Argument from authority is kinda weak.
posted by howfar at 7:00 PM on October 31, 2012


The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the keynote speaker at the Republican convention doesn't just publicly and with gusto embrace Obama in every way (including literally) with no reason, and that Christie is privy to information about the Romney campaign that the rest of us aren't. I don't know if that means I'm getting too cynical about this election or not.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:01 PM on October 31, 2012


It's not even an argument from authority. It's my strong persuasion, and it's based on a lifetime's worth of observation (in NJ politics, too...). You may disagree. I have never been able to view these sorts of interactions or development that simply. They're usually really not that simple. That's all.

And to tack on, if you go back and read any past Presidential biographies or correspondence, that observation is well borne out.
posted by Miko at 7:02 PM on October 31, 2012


Not a single person is arguing that the interaction or development is simple. It's just that the "nice place you got here...be a shame if somethin' were to happen to it" scenario doesn't make a whole bunch of sense. The interests involved remain the same whether or not anything was said. Of course something MIGHT have been said, but I don't see how it would change the complexity of the interaction at all.
posted by howfar at 7:05 PM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


"nice place you got here...be a shame if somethin' were to happen to it" scenario

Yeah, I am not advancing that kind of scenario.
posted by Miko at 7:06 PM on October 31, 2012


Christie strikes me as a man who acts out of emotion. I am cynical and think that Obama and Christie recognize that there are potential benefits for their partnership, but I also firmly believe that Obama just calling him and simply saying "your state is in trouble and I'll do everything in my power to help" would make a huge impression on the governor. He wouldn't necessarily need to say anything else because 1) New Jersey genuinely needed the help and 2) Christie would already know the political ramifications and thus Obama wouldn't *need* to say anything.

I've been watching the videos of Christie talking about and interacting with Obama and what I'm seeing is a man who really cares about his state and is grateful for help. There are plenty of things I don't agree with Christie about, but he's behaving like a genuine leader in regards to this event so far.

Wouldn't vote for him for president, but wouldn't necessarily freak out about him being president either.

The thought of Romney as president freaks me the fuck out.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:08 PM on October 31, 2012 [6 favorites]


You know, I know it's the internet and all, but it's totally okay to admit you're probably wrong.

Even if your mom and dad are journalists.
posted by smithsmith at 7:09 PM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


You're in serious trouble, and you're asking for my help right now. I can declare a state of emergency pre-emptively and make the wheels turn a whole lot faster, getting you aid and lines of credit and support immediately to deal with storm prep and aftermath, in which case you'll come out of this looking really good. Or I can stay hands-off, in which case you and your small-government philosophy will come out looking pretty bad. Let me know which way you'd like this to play out."

It might not be what you mean, but it does kinda sound like it to me.
posted by howfar at 7:09 PM on October 31, 2012


Christie strikes me as a man who acts out of emotion

I think that's really true and it's been shown throughout his tenure.

I also firmly believe that Obama just calling him and simply saying "your state is in trouble and I'll do everything in my power to help" would make a huge impression on the governor.

Obama knows this. You're right, he may not need to say anything at all. He just needs to be sympathetic, effective, and to exceed expectations. He's found ways to do that.

Go back and look at some of Christie's campaign speeches for Romney and for himself. This is an enormous about-face for him.

It might not be what you mean, but it does kinda sound like it to me.

It can be implicit or explicit. Everyone understands this.
On Wednesday, the advantages of incumbency were on full display, as Mr. Christie heaped still more praise on Mr. Obama, saying, “He has sprung into action immediately.”

With Mr. Christie nodding behind him, Mr. Obama spoke about deploying C-130 military planes to ferry supplies to stricken places like New Jersey and urged storm victims to call (800) 621-FEMA to register for direct help from the federal government.

Pledging to respond swiftly, the president said that he had instituted a rule that government officials must return calls from the state and local authorities within 15 minutes. “We are not going to tolerate red tape,” he said, “We are not going to tolerate bureaucracy.”

“We will not quit until this is done,” he added.

Above and beyond. It's awesome. I'm proud.
posted by Miko at 7:12 PM on October 31, 2012 [4 favorites]


You know, I know it's the internet and all, but it's totally okay to admit you're probably wrong.

Even if your mom and dad are journalists.


Come on, you guys. Reasonable minds can differ.
posted by orrnyereg at 7:16 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Musing on the Mitt Romney I know
''In every Harvard intake,'' I tell them, ''there are always a few, a very few, who bear the stamp of greatness. They may not in the end go on to great things - the booze may undo them, or the calumny of rivals, or a sense of the futility of striving, or just plain bad luck, but there is something about them that marks them out - an aura, a numinous and indefinable quality that charges the atmosphere of any room they enter. But perhaps you'd rather hear about Mitt.''
A short and mildly entertaining article about Mitt Romney, written by one of his roommates at Harvard.
posted by syzygy at 7:16 PM on October 31, 2012 [6 favorites]


Reasonable minds can differ.

Who you callin' reasonable?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:19 PM on October 31, 2012 [4 favorites]




The presidential race is over, cue the conspiracy theories.

Oh, wow. That entire piece feels like it was written in Bizzaro world.
To wit, Mitt Romney will defeat Barack Obama for the presidency on November 6, after which there will be hysterical blowback. The election result is quantifiable, with Romney consistently leading in national tracking polls, finding a level at or above 50 percent in many, and closing the necessary gaps in swing states and among demographic groups. Greater evidence can be found, however, in Obama’s sour demeanor and the conduct of his campaign. What a mess.

Opinion-peddlers have noted that the Obama re-election effort has taken on the hallmarks of failed campaigns from previous cycles: scattershot messaging, flailing narratives, ad hominem attacks and joyless mockery
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 7:55 PM on October 31, 2012


Even more tasty headline from that site:

'Doing his Job:' Romney Camp Has No Hard Feelings for Chris Christie
posted by Miko at 7:55 PM on October 31, 2012


Is anyone else having the win percentages no longer display on fivethirtyeight?
posted by KathrynT at 8:02 PM on October 31, 2012


Brandon, Miko, you put that Daily Caller down — you don't know where it's been!

Or, actually, you do know where it's been: in Tucker Carlson's and Ann Coulter's hands. It's crawling with germs — ignorant germs.
posted by benito.strauss at 8:03 PM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


The presidential race is over, cue the conspiracy theories.

From the article:

It is not only the politically interested who will adopt this view — even casual observers will be sucked in. We often see leftist orthodoxy morph into popular convention. This is because, while there are some smart people on the left, it requires almost no thinking to be a liberal. Simply absorb the political sentiments you hear in almost any Hollywood film, or on most any television program or newscast and, presto, you’re in. Repeat these nostrums at school or work and you will be rewarded. Augmented by the emotional satisfaction of the left’s perpetual righteous indignation, this dynamic becomes self-fulfilling and very cozy.

And it’s that snorting indignation warming up in the bullpen that augurs an ugly autumn.


What a prick.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:04 PM on October 31, 2012


They're loading for me, KathrynT - 78.4 at election time, 81.3 right now.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:04 PM on October 31, 2012


Ah, I see -- flash crashed on me, and now I have to do the Dance of Getting Flash to Work Again in Chrome. Yay.
posted by KathrynT at 8:08 PM on October 31, 2012


Is anyone else having the win percentages no longer display on fivethirtyeight?

I can't get them to load in Firefox, Internet Exploder, Opera or Chrome.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:08 PM on October 31, 2012


It's all loading for me in firefox.
posted by cashman at 8:16 PM on October 31, 2012


They look gone to me too.
posted by howfar at 8:16 PM on October 31, 2012


Not showing for me, either. I also tried it with AdBlock off, in case it was getting caught up in that, and the percentages still didn't display.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:43 PM on October 31, 2012


For me it says it was last updated at 9:14pm tonight. So maybe something changed in the code? did you see a cat yawn then walk away and then another cat just like it?
posted by cashman at 8:48 PM on October 31, 2012 [3 favorites]


I can't get them to load in Firefox, Internet Exploder, Opera or Chrome.

Who else feels like Linus?
posted by howfar at 8:48 PM on October 31, 2012


Oh, wow. That entire piece feels like it was written in Bizzaro world.

Wow, that place is amazing. Everyone there quite literally thinks that Romney has already won the election and are strategizing how to deal with Democrat accusations and whining.

searcher0 • 14 hours ago
two things: 1- the MSM has already set up the narrative to invalidate Ohio's votes by bringing up a tenuous, at best, connection between Romney and the electronic voting booths used in two counties; 2- if Romney wins by less than 5% you can count on barry and the choom gang dragging this into the supreme court. again citing the connection between Romney and the Ohio voting booths.

bloodaxe • an hour ago
If Obama wins I will riot.


gman213 • 11 hours ago
Election Day is going to be a re-run of Support Chic-Fil-A Day. People will come out in droves to vote for Romney. It will go down in history as one of the biggest political defeats in the last 50 years.


gcmillerj • a day ago
Even if Obama does lose, he will not leave the White House. He will declare the election fraudulent and issue executive orders to disband congress. He will declare martial law and use the UN troops that he has training in the US for such an event.
I have been saying this for over a year now, and every day it seems more likely.



Meanwhile, at (slowly recovering) PEC...
Probability of Obama re-election: Random Drift 93%, Bayesian Prediction 98.1%
posted by Theta States at 8:49 PM on October 31, 2012


localroger: "And if he loses, the the circular firing squad will assemble itself with lightning speed."

Not that it will matter. The GOP no longer has an organized progressive or moderate faction. The hard-right conservatives are the only ones with the organization necessary to maintain power in the party. They got drubbed many times before finally getting Reagan elected. I have no doubt that should they take another drubbing that they will stay the course. It's what they do.

zombieflanders: "and that Christie is privy to information about the Romney campaign that the rest of us aren't"

We're all privy to the clear indications that Romney is going to lose this election. The idea that he has much of a chance of winning Ohio, much less Wisconsin or Pennsylvania or Michigan is nothing more than wishful (or very pessimistic) thinking. Romney has led in less than a quarter of the Ohio polls in the last month. Obama has led in over half. The numbers are even more lopsided if you narrow your view to the last two weeks. The numbers are far worse for Romney in other states.

There is a clear consensus of polling which is against Romney and Romney's camp is (understandably) not acknowledging that in public. The only good news for Romney is that the clear consensus of polling in Florida and Virginia is that the race is essentially tied in those states. His problem is that taking those two doesn't mean squat unless he also gets Ohio and all the other notionally swing states. I am positive that Christie is aware of Romney's piss poor position. I don't know him well enough to say whether his effusive praise for Obama has anything to do with politics or not. I'd hope not, but who really knows?

The idea that the polls are in any way trending in Mitt's direction (as a group) is complete malarkey. Just another little lie to throw on the pile with all the enormous whoppers told this campaign "season." One can charitably (to Mitt) say that they haven't been moving much lately. It looks more like a slow drift in Obama's direction to me, though.

My only concern is a complete conspiracy theory in which all this sudden talk of how Obama supporters will riot is actually intended to give cover for the wingers to protest when Obama wins. After all, the other side was planning on it, too!
posted by wierdo at 8:52 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, at (slowly recovering) PEC...
Probability of Obama re-election: Random Drift 93%, Bayesian Prediction 98.1%


Thing is, it's not just PEC or 538. It is literally anyone who is looking at the data and trying to make a prediction based on it, rather than "gut instinct" or whatever. How can you possibly have a reliable gut instinct about a group of well over 100 million people? Every single analysis of the EC favours an Obama win. I'm not saying it's certain, and neither are they, but you have to be deeply delusional to discount every voice that disagrees with you.
posted by howfar at 8:55 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


Or live in an ideological bubble like my dad and only talk to conservatives and only watch Fox News. I'm fairly sure that I'm the only liberal my dad has ever had a conversation with.
posted by empath at 9:09 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think that, in itself, is a sort of socially-constructed neurotic delusion. The information available acts to structure the information selected, which structures the available information back again in a vicious circle. It's a bit like the kind of cycle of self-deception some of us can get into when we're very deeply depressed, except on a group level. While not psychotic, that kind of misperception is functionally very close to true delusion.
posted by howfar at 9:15 PM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]


Word on the sex scandal thing is that menendez went to a party in the carribean at a donors house and there were hookers.

Menendez is divorced and up 19 points in the polls. Don't think it will matter.
posted by empath at 9:22 PM on October 31, 2012


Hey, 538's working properly for me now! 299.7 EV for the Nov 6 forecast, 301 EV on the Now-cast.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:55 PM on October 31, 2012 [3 favorites]


Here's a "fun" plausible scenario:

Obama wins Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin as expected, along with Ohio and New Hampshire.

Romney, meanwhile, takes Florida and North Carolina, as expected, but a late-breaking decline in Obama's polls -- perhaps bruised by a weak jobs report Friday morning -- manages to tip Virginia, Iowa, Colorado, and Nevada into the GOP column.

The electoral vote: 269-269.

The election gets thrown to Congress, where the overwhelmingly Republican state House delegations elect Romney. Meanwhile, the Democratic Senate re-elects Joe Biden, who eventually bonds with his new boss on a pre-Inaugural booze run to Mexico in his bitchin' crowdsourced Trans Am.

FiveThirtyEight only sees a 0.2% chance of a tie, but this feels so right.
posted by Rhaomi at 2:53 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Since they're both teetotallers, I presume that the Mexico trip will be, in fact, to score an epic load of peyote to fuel the four year freak-out.
posted by howfar at 5:35 AM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


I think you can kind of get a sense of who's more confident and has the better polling data at the moment: One side has the campaign manager promising to shave his facial hair if they lose relatively safe states, the other is already complaining that if their guy loses, they'll blame Sandy (but deny that climate change had anything to do with it).
posted by zombieflanders at 6:18 AM on November 1, 2012


I think Nate Silver's getting a little tired of being the punching bag for right-leaning commentators. Seeing him offer a bet to Joe Scarborough, though, makes me think he's as confident as localroger's post mentioned above.
posted by gladly at 6:25 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Hey, 538's working properly for me now! 299.7 EV for the Nov 6 forecast, 301 EV on the Now-cast.

300.4 - 79% for Nov 6 if anyone is still having trouble with it.
posted by ersatz at 7:09 AM on November 1, 2012


Yes, yes Obama will win and then cashman will send me cookies and I will pretend that they are Mitt Romney and go NOMNOMNOMNOM and then the world will never have to worry about mittens, because his political career will be dead.

I will laugh and laugh, as cookie crumbs fall to the floor.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:23 AM on November 1, 2012 [5 favorites]


And if I win I will rock back and forth as I gulp down cookies, and eat the crumbs that fall on the floor next to me.
posted by cashman at 7:31 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Today's state-by-state polls:

Wisconsin NBC/WSJ/Marist Obama 49, Romney 46 Obama +3
Wisconsin Rasmussen Reports Obama 49, Romney 49 Tie

New Hampshire NBC/WSJ/Marist Obama 49, Romney 47 Obama +2

Colorado Rasmussen Reports Obama 47, Romney 50 Romney +3

Iowa NBC/WSJ/Marist Obama 50, Romney 44 Obama +6

Nevada LVRJ/SurveyUSA Obama 50, Romney 46 Obama +4

Rhode Island WPRI/Fleming Obama 54, Romney 33 Obama +21
posted by cashman at 7:35 AM on November 1, 2012


Oh thank god, I was worried about Rhode Island.
posted by Theta States at 7:37 AM on November 1, 2012 [4 favorites]


Oh thank god, I was worried about Rhode Island.

You should be, we're about to send a Republican to the House.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:43 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also, note that those polls are pre-Frankenstorm. It will be real interesting to see what they look like monday.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:45 AM on November 1, 2012


I think Nate Silver's getting a little tired of being the punching bag for right-leaning commentators. Seeing him offer a bet to Joe Scarborough, though, makes me think he's as confident as localroger's post mentioned above.

Nate just upped the ante to $2000.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:02 AM on November 1, 2012


Has anyone started a round up of weird presidential predictors (ie. Scholastic poll, Redskins games, etc.)?
posted by drezdn at 8:04 AM on November 1, 2012


I am a Virginia resident. Although I'm an independent, I have voted in past Presidential primaries on both the Republican and Democrat sides (I prefer to have the least worst choice every four years, and state law allows me to vote in a primary of a party I do not belong to, much to the chagrin of state GOP and Democrats).

We get - and this is not an exaggeration 5-10 (5 during the summer, sloping up to 10 in the past few weeks) pollster calls a week. I'd say at least 50% of those pollsters are leaning GOP, 20% Democratic, 30% ostensibly non-partisan*. When we are tricked into answering the phone (what I assume are spoofed phone numbers or identities on caller id), the rhetoric is increasingly unhinged. It is "critical" and "important" that we participate in the poll for the sake of "American Democracy"; we "need to participate" in this critical election "for the future of America" and "these simple questions" could determine "our children's very survival". They call at dinner time and 9 PM, 8:01 AM and Noon. It is my obligation to answer the pollsters, one told me in August (with a spoofed phone number from my little town, but which I could tell was coming from a big phone bank), because there was so much false information out there.

I would really be interested in knowing how many other people out there are like us and refuse to talk to pollsters. Anecdotally, the number seems high among other Virginians I've talked to about this (across the political spectrum), but that's anecdata. Is there some sort of non-partisan source out there that talks about the impact of people who don't do polls?

* I should note the Democrats took us off their calling lists upon first request back in July; the GOP refuses to stop calling us -- that may be why the partisan pollster numbers are so unbalanced.
posted by julen at 8:17 AM on November 1, 2012 [8 favorites]


zombieflanders, do you have a link? I can only see the $1000 bet.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:18 AM on November 1, 2012


Here you go roomthreeseventeen.
posted by howfar at 8:24 AM on November 1, 2012




Someone needs to create a meme for Silver like the "Paul Krugman is tired of trying to reason with you people" one.
posted by octothorpe at 8:29 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Media stumped by 2012 outcome
posted by octothorpe at 8:38 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm confident enough that my angst has gone to the senate seats that the GOP is going to pick up. And the ones they're going to hold. Indiana, what the fuck?
posted by klangklangston at 8:41 AM on November 1, 2012


FWIW, Polltracker has Richard "Rapegift" Mourdock likely to lose in Indiana.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:46 AM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]




Indiana, what the fuck? Lord, they can't go back now ...
posted by maudlin at 8:47 AM on November 1, 2012


The only polls that show the Dem with the lead are ones Dems paid for, and 538 still has it as a win for evil.
posted by klangklangston at 8:48 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


TPM's EV predictions have been all over the place this week, with Obama at anywhere from 246 earlier this week to 303 now. They really accept any data that comes their way, don't they?
posted by maudlin at 8:51 AM on November 1, 2012


I'm confident enough that my angst has gone to the senate seats that the GOP is going to pick up. And the ones they're going to hold. Indiana, what the fuck?

Indiana is actually starting to trend towards Donnelly ever since Mourdock inserted Foot A into Mouth B. In fact, now that Chuck Hagel is endorsing Kerrey in ND and the NE and AZ races are basically toss-ups, there's a not-insignificant chance the Dems gain a seat in the Senate. We're talking best-case scenario here, but since the overwhelming consensus is that they keep a majority, I'm willing to have a little hope with relatively little chance for disappointment.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:52 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


TPM's EV predictions have been all over the place this week, with Obama at anywhere from 246 earlier this week to 303 now. They really accept any data that comes their way, don't they?

IIRC, their model is straight averages with Internet polls mentioned but not included in stats, whereas HuffPo/Pollster does some weighting and smoothing, and 538 has a ton of stuff thrown into the mix. So essentially, yes, but by design.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:54 AM on November 1, 2012


Love this quote:
“Romney is leading in the humor race, but being the biggest joke is a race nobody wants to win"
posted by Theta States at 8:57 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


IIRC, their model is straight averages with Internet polls mentioned but not included in stats, whereas HuffPo/Pollster does some weighting and smoothing, and 538 has a ton of stuff thrown into the mix. So essentially, yes, but by design.

Yes, TPM are "look at our wildly swinging model each day for exciting twists and turns!"
posted by Theta States at 9:00 AM on November 1, 2012


That's fair, klang, but it still seems like the race is within the margin of hope, so I'ma go ahead and hope for a while.

I'm still frustrated that I had to move my voter registration away from Indiana (lived there for many years, currently living abroad but last paid taxes in Vermont). Being a swing state voter in 2008 was such a pleasure. It's like flying business class -- everyone's nicer to you, the air smells sweeter...
posted by saturday_morning at 9:03 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


My money is officially where my mouth is. And by money I mean "the money I was about to pay down my student loans with." 1440 shares at $6.77.

Thought about trying to go for smaller races but those can fluctuate too easy. Now I just need to decide if I should think about selling late in the day when Obama's climbing high but before the election machines steal the election for Romney.
posted by Lemurrhea at 9:15 AM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


Nate's offer to Joe Scar is his gentle way of reminding everyone where the hell he is coming from. If this was his estimate on a sporting event where the bookies were offering even money payouts, there would be quiet whispers to trusted friends and Las Vegas would be bustling with smurfs placing bets. I have known people who flew halfway across the country and hired a dozen associates to tie up a bank of video poker machines for a crack at a progressive jackpot that wasn't as good a single bet as Obama's current EC odds. Nate Silver doesn't just follow the smart money, Nate Silver got where he is by being the smart money. Literally.
posted by localroger at 9:20 AM on November 1, 2012 [5 favorites]


Nate Silver got where he is by being the smart money. Literally.

Literal smart money? Are you saying Nate Silver is made of Bitcoins or something? I may have to reconsider my faith in him.
posted by howfar at 9:35 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, hey, the power's back on and this thread is still going.

Here's a pair of Time links:

The Case for Barack Obama, by E.J. Dionne
The Case for Mitt Romney, by Rich Lowry

I'd thought of making a FPP of these with salient pull-quotes, but I couldn't find a single factual statement in Lowry's piece that I found to be both unarguably true and not banal.

Time seemed to think these deserved equal billing.


Perhap I'm missing something.
 
posted by Herodios at 9:44 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Nate Silver doesn't just follow the smart money, Nate Silver got where he is by being the smart money.

Don't forget, he's also a semi-professional poker player.

Literally.

Malarkey!

Time seemed to think these deserved equal billing.

Perhap I'm missing something.


No, it's just the fact that the modern American press claims "objectivity" by claiming that both sides are equally bad all the time, regardless of whether one side is being objectively worse than the other.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:49 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Time seemed to think these deserved equal billing.

Perhap I'm missing something.


As in most situations, David Bowie is relevant:
Time - He's waiting in the wings,
He speaks of senseless things,
His script is you and me, boys.

Time - He flexes like a whore,
Falls wanking to the floor,
His trick is you and me, boy.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:51 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


PEC just inched forward again:
As of November 1, 11:59AM EDT:
Obama: 312
Romney: 226
Meta-margin: Obama +2.64%
Probability of Obama re-election: Random Drift 96%, Bayesian Prediction 99.1%
posted by Theta States at 9:54 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Aw, man, you have forced me to do this: Joan Baez raps. Lyrics.
posted by maudlin at 9:54 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


I had the displeasure of hearing Romney's full stump speech this morning because I couldn't be bothered to change the channel. It was half-truth after misleading statement after bald-faced lie. If America elects this shit-heel we'll deserve every bad thing that happens because of it.

klangklangston: The only polls that show the Dem with the lead are ones Dems paid for, and 538 still has it as a win for evil.
I know you were being sarcastic, but I actually think this illustrates a real problem.

The Bircher wing of the Republican party, which seems to be most of it these days, genuinely believe that only bad people who support Communist tyranny over freedom would vote for a Democrat. The evangelical wing believe that only bad people who support killing babies would vote for a Democrat. The business wing believes that only bad people who want to enact confiscatory taxes and penalize success would vote for a Democrat.

Conversely, Democratic voters believe that only bad people who want to suppress the rights of minorities and gays would vote for a Republican. Only bad people who think of a baby conceived during a rape as a gift from God would vote for a Republican. Only bad people who want to privatize taxpayer-funded public goods would vote for a Republican.

Thus each side believes the other evil. The truth or falsity of such beliefs are irrelevant. When the other party is evil, there can be no trust. Without trust there can be no compromise. Without compromise there can be no governance.

So we yet again make no progress towards a more free and just society. No progress towards creating an economy for the future that has a place for everyone at the table. We argue and bicker and hurl bitter recriminations at each other. Meanwhile, the future proceeds apace while America continues to re-litigate the past.

At what point do we deem the experiment a failure?

All of which is to say, Romney's speech put me in a bad mood that coffee has not been successful in lifting.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:58 AM on November 1, 2012 [10 favorites]


Only bad people who ... would vote for a Republican.

But this isn't so. I believe stupid people who can't cut through the bullshit would vote for a Republican. Gullible people who are easily persuaded would vote for a Republican. Lazy people who vote Republican because their parents did and don't think about it much would vote for a Republican.

So it's not both sides stalling legislation, it's not both sides trying to suppress voters, it's not both sides lying their asses off, it's not both sides thinking each other evil. There are many Republicans who aren't evil, a few of them used to get elected, and we could and did work with them.

Fortunately, the Republicans who are evil seem to be overplaying their hand in a lot of ways, and some of those not-evil Republicans are drifting away, and within a couple more cycles I don't think a current-day style Republican will be capable of winning national office, or enough statewide to control Congress. Which is exactly how the system is designed to work.
posted by localroger at 10:17 AM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


The Bircher wing of the Republican party, which seems to be most of it these days. . . Without trust there can be no compromise.

This seems to be a recurring theme on Rachael Maddow -- we want a Republican Party we can have an actual argument with.

At what point do we deem the experiment a failure?

The experiment of representational democracy? Let's not be hasty.

We know how we got here.

And don't forget: "The sultan may die. The horse may die. I may die. And the horse may yet learn to sing."

The true blue gurus of progressive politics may well be Nasrudin and Molly Ivins.
 
posted by Herodios at 10:23 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Roger and Us: How Ailes' Fox Talk Revolutionized The American Right

Roger Ailes Offered Bush Administration “Off the Record Help” in Private Note
posted by homunculus at 10:25 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Julen, I'm in VA too - though I've only had one pollster call me (on my cell phone - I don't have a land-line). The polling seemed unbiased, but the person I spoke to sounded like she was a 7th grader polling people for a Middle School civics project.

Notable moments:

When I picked up the phone:
-hello?
-hello?
-yes, hello?
-hello?
-this is raztaj, who is this?
-oh. hey. *begins script*

The pollster asked my year of birth, and when I said 1980, she replied: "wow, really? but you sound, like, young!" (fuck you pollster, 32 is the new 22!).

Asked for my race and ethnicity, and when I said mixed: specifically Caucasian and South Asian (they asked for specifics), said "whoa, that's weird--I mean interesting"

There were some questions about Obama/Romney as favorable/unfavorable, likeliness of voting, the economy, my religious and political affiliation and level of education. Then the pollster accidentally hung up on me before she could give me the "end of call" script, but did end up leaving me the "end of call" script on voicemail.

She also kept messing up the rating scale from question to question (From 1-5, but mixing up whether 1 is "good" and 5 is "poor" and vice versa, so who knows if she actually polled me correctly)

I don't have a lot of faith in the pollsters.
posted by raztaj at 10:45 AM on November 1, 2012 [5 favorites]


I don't have a lot of faith in the pollsters.

I accidentally answered the land-line the other day, and it was some kind of push poll. Apparently, Obama's tax plan will raise my taxes by "4000 percent dollars". There was some other nonsense, but that one stood out.

I could have pressed 1 to tell them (who?!) I want lower taxes, but instead just hung up..
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:52 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


fuck you pollster, 32 is the new 22!

I WANT TO BELIEVE
posted by asperity at 10:57 AM on November 1, 2012 [7 favorites]


Husted.
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- A small fraction of Ohio voters’ absentee ballot requests may have been mistakenly rejected due to a recently discovered glitch in the transfer of change-of-address records.

Even though the deadline for voters to register or change their address was three weeks ago, Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted just this week sent about 33,000 updated registration records to local elections officials. The local boards had to immediately process the records to ensure those voters could properly cast a ballot in the Nov. 6 election.

An unknown number of absentee ballot applications across the state have been rejected due to the delay because election officials did not have some voters’ current addresses.

Officials in Cuyahoga County said 71 such applications were rejected. Those voters now will be sent new absentee ballots.
Husted.
Ohio voters who insist on casting a ballot at the wrong polling place will not have their votes counted, a federal appeals court has ruled.

Voters who show up at the wrong polling place next week will be told they cannot cast a legal vote there. And if they insist on casting a provisional ballot, it will go uncounted.

The decision is the latest to clarify the rules for counting provisional ballots in Ohio, rules that will take on enormous importance next week if the presidential candidates are locked in a close contest.

Four years ago, more than 200,000 voters in Ohio cast provisional ballots for one of several reasons, including the fact their names did not appear on the registration rolls. About 14,000 of these ballots were not counted in 2008 because the voters had cast them in the wrong precinct.

Husted.
By law, Husted is supposed to represent all voters. Given his public pronouncements and litigation over the past year, what confidence should minority voters in Ohio have that their votes will be counted under Husted's direction? Think of all the time and energy he has spent in the state trying to make it harder for people to have their votes counted. Now think of what Ohio's election might look like if the state's chief elections officer had devoted that time and energy to ensure broad voting rights.

Last week, the New York Times' Nate Silver predicted that Ohio had a 50-50 chance of deciding the election. Why should America trust Jon Husted to neutrally oversee Ohio's voting process? What has he done in the past year to earn this trust? Speculation suggests that Husted has his sights on higher political office. Well, he's got what every starry-eyed local pol wants when he dreams of bigger things: a national audience. In fact, the whole world is watching, and waiting, to see if this man can meet his moment and do the right thing.
posted by cashman at 10:59 AM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


The Economist endorses Obama (previous failed FPP).

Many of The Economist’s readers, especially those who run businesses in America, may well conclude that nothing could be worse than another four years of Mr Obama. We beg to differ. For all his businesslike intentions, Mr Romney has an economic plan that works only if you don’t believe most of what he says. That is not a convincing pitch for a chief executive. And for all his shortcomings, Mr Obama has dragged America’s economy back from the brink of disaster, and has made a decent fist of foreign policy. So this newspaper would stick with the devil it knows, and re-elect him.

posted by Golden Eternity at 11:06 AM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


"The Long Con: Mail-Order Conservatism" (Rick Perlstein for The Baffler)
posted by box at 11:06 AM on November 1, 2012 [5 favorites]


Barack will be in Ohio on Sunday, at Fifth Third Arena on the campus of the University of Cincinnati at 4pm. [RSVP here]
posted by cashman at 11:10 AM on November 1, 2012


I live in Ohio, moved in January of this year, updated my address and received a postcard confirming I was registered at the new house.

I received another postcard this week, identical to the last one, dated October 29th, and I have no idea why, but now I'm wondering if it's related to cashman's first link above.
posted by imabanana at 11:13 AM on November 1, 2012


The Economist endorses Obama

I sincerely have been waiting for their final verdict for a few weeks now and while my gut instinct told me that (despite their less-than-evenhanded reporting recently) they wouldn't go Full Romney, I can't say this "endorsement" is much better.
posted by psoas at 11:16 AM on November 1, 2012


Mr Romney has an economic plan that works only if you don’t believe most of what he says.

It sounds like a very reluctant endorsement but I kind of liked this line though.
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:19 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


I received another postcard this week, identical to the last one, dated October 29th, and I have no idea why, but now I'm wondering if it's related to cashman's first link above.

I highly suggest you investigate so that you make sure your vote is counted.
posted by cashman at 11:24 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


I highly suggest you investigate so that you make sure your vote is counted.

I'm waiting until Tuesday to vote, I think I'd be more worried if I had early voted or absentee voted.

Reading that link it looks like it's related to BMV records, and I updated my address for voting when I updated my license, so that's almost certainly why I got the second postcard.

At least now if anything weird happens Tuesday I'll have an idea of why and be able to advocate for myself.
posted by imabanana at 11:31 AM on November 1, 2012


Andrew Sullivan: Dear Barry Goldwater, From George Romney. Quoting a quote that Sullivan quoted:
First, as to your remarks in Jamaica concerning the possible realignment of the Republican and Democratic parties into “conservative” and "liberal" parties. Whatever the circumstances of the statement, you have indicated that you believe that might be "a happy thing." I disagree.

We need only look at the experience of some ideologically oriented parties in Europe to realize that chaos can result. Dogmatic ideological parties tend to splinter the political and social fabric of a nation, lead to governmental crises and deadlock, and stymie the compromises so often necessary to preserve freedom and achieve progress. A broad based two party structure produces a degree of political stability and viability not otherwise attainable.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:32 AM on November 1, 2012 [4 favorites]


TPM's EV for Obama is back to 285 from 303 earlier today. And this is why Josh Marshall is neither Silver nor Wang:
This afternoon Citizens United released a poll it commissioned from the GOP pollster Wenzel Strategies. It has Romney up by 3 in Ohio. You’ll note it pushed Ohio back into the Toss Up column on our scoreboard. This is simply our methodology. We include partisan pollsters, as long as basic internal demographics are within reasonable bounds and certain details about the poll are released.

But this poll doesn’t strike me as having much credibility. Here’s why. No one credible poll shows this kind of margin or any margin for Romney in Ohio. ...

That said, the way to aggregate polls is to have a specific set of criteria that you use regardless of subjective impressions. This one counts. So it’s in. In all cases, it’s best to keep your eye on the averages. We’ve got no shortage of Ohio polls. That’s my take.
Note to self: never let Josh Marshall cook a meal for you. "A tossed salad with anthrax and carpet tacks, followed by grilled chicken on a bed of dirty socks? You shouldn't have!"
posted by maudlin at 12:22 PM on November 1, 2012 [4 favorites]


Or: "I mean, say what you like about the criteria of TPM polling. Dude, at least it's an approach."
posted by maudlin at 12:24 PM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


I dunno maudlin, I think TPM is doing that correctly. Silver often talks about how one of his rules is that he doesn't change the model partway through the election. They input polls, which get weighted automatically by the model. I remember that he didn't put a poll in when it was about a month old, which is a different situation.

Here, Marshall is saying that the poll is uncredible, but only because of its outlier nature. He's probably right about that. But you really can't go discarding outliers like that just based on gut instinct because that's the exact subjective bias that a model tries to avoid. There need to be objective flaws (outdated; no details about voters, whatever they use) to reject a poll.

He's probably right that the poll is wrong, but such is life.
posted by Lemurrhea at 12:36 PM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]




Shorter Frum: I publicly admit that he's lying about something, I just believe he's lying about it to the other guys. For reasons.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:41 PM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


Lemurrhea, I'm not saying that it's wrong to be minimal and consistent in your criteria when including polls. But the TPM EV count shows wild swings on a frequent basis that I just don't see at 538 or Princeton. Really, two different people checking in at TPM this morning and this afternoon would walk away with very different ideas about what their model was predicting.

If your goal is to track the wild oscillations derived from counting every poll that meets minimal criteria, it's effective. But if your goal is to see reasonably robust trends in polling data, this is not the tracker to follow.

It's not like following a stock ticker where immediate information can make a difference in making or losing money. Those buys and sales are taking place in something pretty close to real time. These polls are taken over somewhat different time persiods, and are released when they're released. I think we've also seen a pattern of right-sourced polls releasing results all at once in order to favout the Romentum argument, too, although this is more of a hazy memory and not something I can link to right now.
posted by maudlin at 12:55 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


All Lawyered Up and Ready To Go
posted by homunculus at 1:05 PM on November 1, 2012


I have been pondering the absolute certainty of Romney victory held by many on the right despite all evidence to the contrary. Not saying Romney won't win, but being certain of it is nuts.

In context of Rovian electioneering tricks - like projecting your worst faults on to your opponent and attacking strengths - I can't help but feel that some of the things certain far right Republicans delusionally claim Obama will do should he lose are precisely the things Romney and the right are considering doing should Romney lose - lawsuits, protests, and general mayhem. Heck, they brought us the Tea Party - the folks who in the 18th century were sort of a symbolic precursor of the Revolutionary War - who is to say they won't ramp it up a notch should Obama win again?

I'm not saying there's going to be armed rioting or anything, but I think that you might want to get your dog a pair of earplugs or he'll go deaf next week when the high pitched whining begins.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:23 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Bloomberg endorses Obama
posted by octothorpe at 1:23 PM on November 1, 2012




If it takes Hurricane Sandy to wake some key folks, be they ones that were previously on the fence or people who were on the purposefully naive/I'm-not-impacted-in-my-beachfront-home side of things, up to the fact that that climate change is loading the dice in favor of extreme weather events then we got off astonishingly cheap, both in human suffering and out of pocket expense.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm honestly loving all this attention/mention of climate change as a real thing from people in the limelight.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:32 PM on November 1, 2012


It is clear that should Obama win in a couple of weeks, the right will need to portray that not as the American people choosing the other guy and his priorities/worldview, but as something fishy, possibly corrupt, and certainly illegitimate. That job will be all the easier if a foundation has been built in the political narrative that Romney was winning all along.
Quoted for truth. We will hear endlessly and breathlessly about stolen elections, voter fraud, nazi black panther kenya communists intimidating grandmothers and spreading socialism.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:43 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


The Economist says, "Indeed, the extremism of his party is Mr Romney’s greatest handicap. The Democrats have their implacable fringe too: look at the teachers’ unions." WTF? Teachers' unions? How are they extreme at all, much less even comparable to nutjobs like the Tea Party?
posted by kirkaracha at 1:46 PM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]




African Americans, vote Republican because Abraham Lincoln.

During our weekly secret meetings, we just laugh deep, bass filled laughs about those ads, while coloring in our KILL WHITEY coloring books, sipping socialist made tea and comparing the size of welfare checks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:54 PM on November 1, 2012 [25 favorites]


African Americans, vote Republican because Abraham Lincoln.

When you have to reach back a hundred and fifty years to find a Republican who was good for African Americans, maybe your party has a problem.
posted by KathrynT at 1:57 PM on November 1, 2012 [21 favorites]


Newspaper endorsements update - Obama 35, Romney 28.
posted by cashman at 1:59 PM on November 1, 2012


When you have to reach back a hundred and fifty years to find a Republican who was good for African Americans, maybe your party has a problem.

In all seriousness, that is the exact point that various other black people make when this crap comes up.

Select examples, paraphrased:
"That was over over 100 years ago."
"That was way back in the day before there even was a back in the day."
"Don't that know he's dead?"
"Then why are Republicans still so damn racist?"

The sheer blindsided arrogance of pointing to Lincoln just illustrates how much the Republican party doesn't know that it doesn't have a clue.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:05 PM on November 1, 2012 [4 favorites]


Trick or Treat, Mitt.
posted by cashman at 2:05 PM on November 1, 2012


With Mitt, its always "trick."
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:15 PM on November 1, 2012




Newspaper endorsements update - Obama 35, Romney 28.

More telling is the circulation: Obama 9,118,510, Romney 4,981,613
posted by Theta States at 2:25 PM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mr. Burns Endorses Romney
posted by Gary at 2:27 PM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


In all seriousness, that is the exact point that various other black people make when this crap comes up.

"That was 150 years ago. What have you done for me lately?"
posted by KathrynT at 2:38 PM on November 1, 2012


Newspaper endorsements update - Obama 35, Romney 28.
More telling is the circulation: Obama 9,118,510, Romney 4,981,613

Do endorsements matter anymore? There are 213 million-plus voting-eligible people in the U.S. (2008). 14 million of them subscribe to newspapers with endorsements. Even fewer read the editorial pages.
posted by headnsouth at 2:38 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Yes, yes Obama will win and then cashman will send me cookies and I will pretend that they are Mitt Romney and go NOMNOMNOMNOM and then the world will never have to worry about mittens, because his political career will be dead.

I will laugh and laugh, as cookie crumbs fall to the floor.


"I'm not sure about these cookies. They don't look like you made them," Romney said to the woman sitting next to him "No, no. They came from the local 7-eleven, bakery, or whatever."

Romney's death knell as he is being masticated and hurls towards Brandon's colon.
posted by futz at 2:38 PM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]




Romney gets mad talking about Mormonism, also says some weird shit. (via)
posted by Flashman at 2:47 PM on November 1, 2012 [5 favorites]


Newspaper endorsements update - Obama 35, Romney 28.

I'm a little surprised that the WSJ doesn't endorse candidates. Not that they need to, as their position seems clear from the festering, rancid pool of nastiness that is their op-ed page, but still surprising.
posted by triggerfinger at 2:57 PM on November 1, 2012


Romney gets mad talking about Mormonism, also says some weird shit.

I don't find anything he said to be weird. In fact, that's the most sensible and human I've ever seen Romney. It's natural to defend your faith when someone else misunderstands it.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 3:01 PM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


During our weekly secret meetings, we just laugh deep, bass filled laughs about those ads, while coloring in our KILL WHITEY coloring books, sipping socialist made tea and comparing the size of welfare checks.

I'm disappointed that you're not also comparing your Gucci handbags and enjoying deep tissue massages while your fellow young bucks are out buying T-bone steaks with my straight white male taxpayer dollars.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:09 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Major Retailer Urges Workers To Take 'Civics Course' With Anti-Obama Content

Ugh. I LOVED Menard's. I can't even decide what to pull quote from the article because it is all so awful.

Is linking to (leftie) alternet like linking to brietbart? Are they trustworthy?
posted by futz at 3:16 PM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney gets mad talking about Mormonism, also says some weird shit.

I don't find anything he said to be weird. In fact, that's the most sensible and human I've ever seen Romney. It's natural to defend your faith when someone else misunderstands it.


I agree, it was startling to see him talking so passionately about something he believes in.
posted by sweetkid at 3:17 PM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


futz: "Ugh. I LOVED Menard's."

Seriously? I haven't set foot in one or lived in Wisconsin for nearly twenty years but the very mention of the name gets that evil "save big money at Menard's" song stuck in my head. Used to give me hives to set foot in that place.

For the uninitiated, imagine that Epcot Center "It's a Small World After All" only it's a lumber yard and it never stops!

Still love both Farm and Fleet and Blaine's Fleet Farm though. And the fact that I paid for six months of funemployment by driving truck for Brunsell Lumber (are they still around?) might contribute somewhat to my animosity. Mostly though, that fucking song.
posted by stet at 3:30 PM on November 1, 2012


Save big money at Menards
posted by triggerfinger at 3:36 PM on November 1, 2012


I agree, it was startling to see him talking so passionately about something he believes in.

He sounded much the same during his 47% speech.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 3:37 PM on November 1, 2012 [4 favorites]


Do endorsements matter anymore? There are 213 million-plus voting-eligible people in the U.S. (2008). 14 million of them subscribe to newspapers with endorsements. Even fewer read the editorial pages.

Judgement about whether or not endorsements matter aside, I don't have any newspaper or magazine subscriptions at all and have read no less than 20 endorsement editorials (through links on Mefi, FB, Twitter, etc.) over the last month.
posted by Kevtaro at 3:41 PM on November 1, 2012


triggerfinger: "Save big money at Menards "

Ha! An errant drop of tea killed the sound in my laptop two years ago! I'm impervious to your +5 Menard's of Save Big Money!
posted by stet at 3:42 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Here go the republicans with that projection thing. There is an air of discussion that Republicans are fixing the polls for their candidates. So of course they accuse the other side of doing it in advance.
posted by cashman at 3:43 PM on November 1, 2012


When you have to reach back a hundred and fifty years to find a Republican who was good for African Americans, maybe your party has a problem.

Dude, what about MLK?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:44 PM on November 1, 2012


"I don't find anything he said to be weird. In fact, that's the most sensible and human I've ever seen Romney. It's natural to defend your faith when someone else misunderstands it."

Yeah, and he still came across as an imperious prick. I'll be so glad once this is over and he has to fuck off to the provinces or some shit.
posted by klangklangston at 3:46 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Do endorsements matter anymore?

I don't think they directly influence how people vote (if they ever did), but I think reading the endorsements might reflect the thought processes of people who are deciding between the two candidates. Several of the Obama endorsements I've read mention the 47% speech and Romney's ever-changing positions as reasons not to vote for him, and I think other people have the same reservations.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:51 PM on November 1, 2012


Guys, the American Election special is on Question Time right now and Jerry Springer is killing it. :)
posted by triggerfinger at 3:51 PM on November 1, 2012


Yes. He came across as a more likeable rude and unpleasant prick than in other cases, to me.
posted by howfar at 3:54 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


It's cold out, the sun has gone and I'm home alone, reading news. The reports of growing unrest in Jersey, New York and Connecticut, along with the infrastructure still being in shambles makes me worried about election day turnout in these blue states.

Someone tell me a bedtime story, with a positive Obama poll outside the margin of error and a cup of Hot Scotch Cocoa.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:21 PM on November 1, 2012




along with the infrastructure still being in shambles makes me worried about election day turnout in these blue states.

You should definitely be worried. I read tonight that the elections boards in my home county are getting together to select a new group of polling stations because most of the usual ones are destroyed, inaccessible, and/or might still lack power on Tuesday. So you'll hpeopave a bunch of unfamiliar polling stations changed up at the last minute. meanwhile there are still almost 2 million people without power who are lucky to know anything at all, and I guarantee you trying to find out where their new polling station is going to be is not the topmost thing on their minds. It is concerning.
posted by Miko at 4:50 PM on November 1, 2012


It's worrisome and I tend to the pessimistic, but I don't think there is a chance that Romney is going to pull out a victory in New York, New Jersey or Connecticut.

I mean..seeing on CNN Tuesday, "Romney has just won the state of New York!" Er no.
posted by sweetkid at 4:56 PM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's not so much him winning in New York, etc. as it is him winning the popular vote due to depressed turnout in such populous blue states. That would definitely play directly into efforts to delegitimize the results, though a mirror-image of the 2000 debacle would be great for schadenfreude purposes.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:04 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


New York isn't just NYC, though. ANd NJ isn't quite as blue as some might think, with its moneyed Wall Streeters and other bankers and real estate developers, though it's probably safe to say it's still going to be blue evne with suppressed turnout. But the popular vote concern Rhaomi mentions is a real one.
posted by Miko at 5:11 PM on November 1, 2012


I know New York isn't NYC, I live here in New York state and I've been upstate plenty of times. I just really don't think we'll have a surprise NY victory for Romney, though I hear you on the popular vote concerns.
posted by sweetkid at 5:13 PM on November 1, 2012


Nate Silver addresses this here.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:15 PM on November 1, 2012


My mistake, sweetkid, I didn't know where you were from.
posted by Miko at 5:21 PM on November 1, 2012


OK -- I'm a giant dork and I have nothing else to do with my anxiety about this election, so I calculated what would happen if you just entirely removed the NYC voting population.

Let's take the 2004 election for a conservative estimate of Democratic turnout. (All figures from Wikipedia.)

NEW YORK STATE TOTALS

Kerry: 4,314,280
Bush: 2,962,567

NEW YORK CITY TOTALS

Kerry:
Bronx: 283,994
Manhattan: 526,765
Brooklyn: 514,973
Queens: 433,835
Staten Island: 68,448
TOTAL: 1,828,015

Bush:
Bronx: 56,701
Manhattan: 107,405
Brooklyn: 167,149
Queens: 165,954
Staten Island: 90,325
TOTAL: 587,534

KERRY WITHOUT NYC: 4,314,280 - 1,828,015 = 2,486,265
BUSH WITHOUT NYC: 2,962,567 - 587,534 = 2,375,033

Alternate Universe Kerry would still take it with 51% of the two-party vote if NYC plain stopped existing (which thank goodness it has not).

So... don't worry about NY I guess.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:40 PM on November 1, 2012


@TeaPartyCat: Romney campaign:"Saying Chrysler will move jobs to China isn't a lie because if Mitt loses, he'll buy Chrysler and move those jobs himself."

I love legitimate satire.
posted by Talez at 5:54 PM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


It's not so much him winning in New York, etc. as it is him winning the popular vote due to depressed turnout in such populous blue states.

It won't matter. If Obama wins both, the frothing right will respond with hysterical bullshit and maybe impeach him. If he only wins the electoral vote, the frothing right will... respond with hysterical bullshit and maybe impeach him. The content of the hysterical bullshit might be slightly different, but the US will be hip-deep in hysterical bullshit no matter what.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:10 PM on November 1, 2012 [11 favorites]


UAW Files Charges Against Romney on His Auto Bail-out Profiteering
For Mitt Romney, it's one scary Halloween. The Presidential candidate has just learned that tomorrow afternoon he will charged with violating the federal Ethics in Government law by improperly concealing his multi-million dollar windfall from the auto industry bail-out.

At a press conference in Toledo, Bob King, President of the United Automobile Workers, will announce that his union and Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) have filed a formal complaint with the US Office of Government Ethics in Washington stating that Gov. Romney improperly hid a profit of $15.3 million to $115.0 million in Ann Romney's so-called "blind" trust.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:27 PM on November 1, 2012 [6 favorites]


Fischer: ‘Entitled’ citizens will riot if Obama loses
Bryan Fischer, spokesperson and Director of Issue Analysis for Government and Public Policy at the American Family Association, issued dire warnings about how “flash mobs” will riot if Obama loses the presidential election.

“I predict there’s going to be, there’s going to be civil unrest,” he said. “I think we’ll get a lot of these flash mob burglaries.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.



Chrysler executive to Trump: ‘You are full of sh*t!’
posted by Room 641-A at 6:45 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]




On 538, President Obama is up to 80.8% chance of winning with 303 projected electoral votes, along with a new post on Nevada. Also a different site has some media from Obama's Nevada visit today. (Obama & happy babies, thrilled people and the first lady)
posted by cashman at 7:17 PM on November 1, 2012




Romney Style: How to destroy your campaign's credibility in Five Easy Steps (Obama campaign video, Gangnam free).
posted by maudlin at 8:01 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Nate Silver gets a slap on the wrist for his offer of a wager. Scarborough donates anyway.
posted by gladly at 8:07 PM on November 1, 2012


Theta States: “Romney is leading in the humor race, but being the biggest joke is a race nobody wants to win"

I prefer the paragraphs around that quote, from that Fox News article:
Study shows late night comedians dig more at Romney than all Democrats combined
A study released this week by the Center for Media and Public Affairs (CMPA) found that since the conventions in September, late night comedians Jay Leno, David Letterman, Craig Ferguson and Jimmy Fallon have told more jokes about GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney than all Democrats combined.
...
Overall, the study concluded that Republicans were the targets of political humor more than twice as often as their Democratic counterparts, with the most significant disproportion occurring in the monologues delivered by David Letterman. CMPA counted 290 jokes made about Republicans and 138 about Democrats.
Poor Republicans, saying more stupid things than Democrats. Oh, I'm sorry, it's because they're conservative. Thanks, Matt Philbin, you watchdog of liberal media.


Herodios: Here's a pair of Time links:

The Case for Barack Obama, by E.J. Dionne
The Case for Mitt Romney, by Rich Lowry

I'd thought of making a FPP of these with salient pull-quotes, but I couldn't find a single factual statement in Lowry's piece that I found to be both unarguably true and not banal.

Time seemed to think these deserved equal billing.

Perhap I'm missing something.


Yes, you're not trying to sell a fluff news magazine at the end of a Presidential race.


Joey Michaels: African Americans, vote Republican because Abraham Lincoln.

Martin Luther King Jr. was a Republican, so vote for me, a Republican (except that MLK Jr. wasn't)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:12 PM on November 1, 2012


homunculus: Tucker Carlson Calls Bob Mendenez a "Latin Lover"

Except Note to those looking online for a definition of Latin Lover: neither Urban Dictionary nor Wikipedia seem to cast the term in anything but flattering light.

In other words, I think Tucker Carlson has the (ethnically confused) hots for Bobby "Boy-Faced" Menendez.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:17 PM on November 1, 2012


Scarborough doesn't understand Nate Silver's culture. Nate Silver is a professional gambler. The ultimate thing you do, if you believe in something, is you bet on it. If you aren't willing to bet on a thing, you don't believe in it. He is asking Scar to put his money where his mouth is, and Scar is balking. In any casino on the planet Scar would be considered a humiliated loser for this.
posted by localroger at 8:19 PM on November 1, 2012 [7 favorites]


In many casinos on the planet, it is safe to assume one is a humiliated loser simply for being in the casino.
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:46 PM on November 1, 2012 [4 favorites]


Romney gets mad talking about Mormonism, also says some weird shit.

I just marvel at the disdain Mitt Romney has shown for people who have disagreements with him. Think about the video of him arguing with that reporter over lobbyists. Think about how that teacher says Mitt treated her. And then in this new video from Iowa, Mitt is just dismissive and really rude. He's combative and argumentative in a way that is borderline scary. Even today when someone challenged him on climate change at his rally, he didn't know how to act so he just stood there completely still without comment.

In that video, Mitt knows there are cameras and recording devices there - he doesn't care. Mitt just does a bunch of dickish things to that guy who is talking to him. It really seems to underscore the life Mitt lives where he doesn't get challenged. Where he has power over everyone he comes into contact with. Where nobody gets to tell him no.

If you're gay, not white, a woman, you've had your very presence questioned. Your very existence challenged. People have said and still to this day think you are less than human, not worthy of full citizenship, suspicious at all times in all outfits, and just surely not a true American. And Mitt blows a fuse because a radio host wants to discuss one of his constantly moving positions in the context of his religion?? Please.
posted by cashman at 8:47 PM on November 1, 2012 [7 favorites]


But Scarborough donated the money anyways. Which makes Scarborough better than Sean Hannity. Which is the faintest amount of praise detectable by the human mind.
posted by benito.strauss at 8:49 PM on November 1, 2012 [13 favorites]


But Scarborough donated the money anyways. Which makes Scarborough better than Sean Hannity. Which is the faintest amount of praise detectable by the human mind.

You've discovered the praise boson! Or, as it will become known, the Benito Straussiton.
posted by Superplin at 9:05 PM on November 1, 2012 [16 favorites]


Oh wow - Sam Wang's saying 315 EV for Obama now. Are post-Sandy polls rolling in?
posted by jason_steakums at 9:14 PM on November 1, 2012


OK, that's one big swing from Wang. My apologies to Josh Marshall.
posted by maudlin at 9:18 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


The NYT public editor just laid some smack down on Nate Silver for offering to bet Joe Scarborough $1000 dollar over the election in response to Scarborough more or less calling Nate a fraud and a joke. I think she completely missed the point and showed herself to be massively out of touch with current reality. My favorite part was when she said that, by joining the Times, Nate was granted some of their credibility.

That's farcical. The NYT didn't pay Nate a ton of money while letting him maintain absolute control over 538 in order to lend him the NYT's credibility. It did so in order to buy part of Nate's credibility on these matters. I hope Nate tells them to fuck off and goes back to 538.com.
posted by Justinian at 9:32 PM on November 1, 2012 [18 favorites]


That is, of course, true, but the purpose of the article is effectively to deny that truth. Silver's bet was an indication of what everyone knows, 538 might have New York Times written on it, but it's his show. The laying on of smack is the NYT trying to save face, partly to make the money that they've paid Silver for his credibility worth the spending. The bet was funny, but kinda pointless, and Silver will probably shrug his shoulders and boil himself another Fabergé egg. I know I would.
posted by howfar at 9:46 PM on November 1, 2012




You've discovered the praise boson! Or, as it will become known, the Benito Straussiton.

Well, the name "Benito" means "blessed", so perhaps we should just call it the "beniton". Like the quark, the beniton comes in different colors, but unlike the quark, those colors are mostly dusty pastels.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:32 PM on November 1, 2012 [7 favorites]


The content of the hysterical bullshit might be slightly different, but the US will be hip-deep in hysterical bullshit no matter what."

It's like the number of media outlets increased, but the quanta of credibility didn't, so it's just spread that much thinner.
posted by klangklangston at 10:44 PM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]




LAND O'LAKES — Pasco County School District officials didn't know what might happen when they agreed to allow Mitt Romney to rally at the Land O'Lakes High School football field a week ago.

The district had never hosted such a large event before.

Now 15,000 attendees and more than $25,000 in damage later, they plan to closely review their policies and procedures for future big draw activities. The district treated the rally as a simple facilities rental request.


Kinda ironic after this comment:

"I remember once we had a football field at my high school. The field was covered with rubbish and paper goods from people who’d had a big celebration there at the game. And there was a group of us there assigned to clean it up. And I thought, ‘how are we going to clean up all the mess on this football field?’ There were just a few of us. And the person responsible for organizing the effort said, ‘Just line up along the yard lines. You go between the goal line and the 10-yard line, and the next person between the 10 and 20, and just walk down and do your lane. And if everybody cleans their lanes, we’ll get it done.’ And so today, we’re cleaning one lane if you will."
posted by futz at 4:00 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney tells this tale as if he were revealing some kind of brilliantly innovative organizational strategy. "We cleaned a big area by assigning each person a specific area" ain't exactly rocket surgery.
posted by GrammarMoses at 4:16 AM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


"We cleaned a big area by assigning each person a specific area small sub-section..."
More coffee...
posted by GrammarMoses at 4:56 AM on November 2, 2012


"And the person responsible for organizing the effort community organizer, showing real leadership, said, ‘Just line up along the yard lines. You go between the goal line and the 10-yard line, and the next person between the 10 and 20, and just walk down and do your lane. And if everybody cleans their lanes, we’ll get it done.’ And so today, we’re cleaning one lane if you will."

IF EVERYBODY CLEANS THEIR LANES, WE'LL GET IT DONE. That's the whole goddamn point, and the opposite of what he believes. Everyone needs to do their part or the field won't EVER be clean.

Also, "rubbish and paper goods"? Who talks like that?
posted by headnsouth at 5:07 AM on November 2, 2012 [7 favorites]


Not that it's going to change anything, but the jobs numbers beat expectations. 171k nonfarm jobs added last month, plus upwards revisions of 81k for Aug & Sep. Unemployment still under 8%.

So, no ammo for either side, but that's better for the Dems than GOP right now.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:34 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


BLS truthers on Twitter in 3...2...1...
posted by zombieflanders at 5:35 AM on November 2, 2012


I can't believe they had Norquist on CNN. I am glad the numbers were better than expected. It's so funny that they will simultaneously say they don't believe the numbers (because they are good) while at the same time saying the recovery is too weak.
posted by cashman at 5:38 AM on November 2, 2012


So is unemployment steady at 7.8% or did it drop? Anyone got a link?
posted by smithsmith at 5:39 AM on November 2, 2012


The Most Important Election Since 1980 - Charles Krauthammer, Wash Post

Makes several good points about an Obama second term, though he seems them in a negative light.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:42 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


So is unemployment steady at 7.8% or did it drop? Anyone got a link?

Unemployment is basically unchanged at 7.9% - here is the link to the report at the BLS.
posted by cashman at 5:43 AM on November 2, 2012


It ticked up 0.1% due to over a half a million people rejoining the workforce (both looking for and obtaining work), about 400k of whom found jobs last month.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:46 AM on November 2, 2012


IF EVERYBODY CLEANS THEIR LANES, WE'LL GET IT DONE.

This reminds me of the Japanese in WWII advising the residents of Tokyo that each householder was responsible for defending their own home while we were firebombing the crap out of them.
posted by localroger at 5:57 AM on November 2, 2012


Hopefully that nuance isn't lost amongst the headlines screaming UNEMPLOYMENT UP DAYS BEFORE ELECTION.

Nevertheless, at least it nullifies the right wing conspiracy theories about Obama manipulating the data.
posted by smithsmith at 5:57 AM on November 2, 2012


In many casinos on the planet, it is safe to assume one is a humiliated loser simply for being in the casino.

Those presumably being the ones without poker rooms.
posted by localroger at 5:59 AM on November 2, 2012


Nevertheless, at least it nullifies the right wing conspiracy theories about Obama manipulating the data.

As with all conspiracy theories, facts affect them not at all.
posted by OmieWise at 5:59 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


On Polling Models, Skewed & Unskewed (at Redstate.com)
Conclusion

We can’t know until Election Day who is right. I stand by my view that Obama is losing independent voters decisively, because the national and state polls both support that thesis. I stand by my view that Republican turnout will be up significantly from recent-historic lows in 2008 in the key swing states (Ohio, Wisconsin, Colorado) and nationally, because the post-2008 elections, the party registration data, the early-voting and absentee-ballot numbers, and the Rasmussen and Gallup national party-ID surveys (both of which have solid track records) all point to this conclusion. I stand by my view that no countervailing evidence outside of poll samples shows a similar surge above 2008 levels in Democratic voter turnout, as would be needed to offset Romney’s advantage with independents and increased GOP voter turnout. And I stand by the view that a mechanical reading of polling averages is an inadequate basis to project an event unprecedented in American history: the re-election of a sitting president without a clear-cut victory in the national popular vote.

Perhaps, despite the paucity of evidence to the contrary, these assumptions are wrong. But if they are correct, no mathematical model can provide a convincing explanation of how Obama is going to win re-election. He remains toast.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:06 AM on November 2, 2012


Gallup may have surveyed party ID in a way favorable to this guy's argument, but they also just released their prediction for low turnout this election.
posted by OmieWise at 6:17 AM on November 2, 2012




Makes several good points about an Obama second term, though he seems them in a negative light.

The problem with Krauthammer's overview it that it ignored Bush Jr. and the collapse of everything they held dear almost immediately after the experiment began. Their policies actually failed in the short-term, taking the long term with it, and that's probably the best evidence of being swindled. Romney is the anti-government right's last gasp; the most visible representation of anti-American Mormonism who prospered under deregulation. He is also descended from those who fled the American Midwest over government "persecution" of marrying child brides. They didn't celebrate the 4th of July until the last century, and even fled America after Utah statehood to practice polygamy. They were the non-Southern hardcore racists who bred their way to mass influence and drummed the hatred of Washington into the next five generations. They were always practicing a political faith, never a sound economics.
posted by Brian B. at 6:59 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Perhaps, despite the paucity of evidence to the contrary, these assumptions are wrong. But if they are correct, no mathematical model can provide a convincing explanation of how Obama is going to win re-election. He remains toast.

The irony (or disconnect, maybe) in that statement is that he is describing a mathematical model of sorts, and that Silver et al have already taken all of the information he describes into account in their models and drawn a different conclusion.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 7:04 AM on November 2, 2012


ZOMG that Romney in Iowa re: Mormonism is terrifying. That man is fundamentally unqualified to be president.
posted by angrycat at 7:09 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]




Voters will be allowed to use Memphis library cards as photo identification in the November 6 election, the Tennessee Supreme Court ruled on Thursday in a blow to Republicans who wanted only ID issued by the federal and state governments to be allowed.
posted by cashman at 7:23 AM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


I'm kind of stuck in the middle of ND for the day so am going to violate my self imposed embargo for the day....

That Red State conclusion is essentially just a trying to keep moral up fluff peice.
Any Republican enthusiasm is not FOR Romney, but AGAINST Obama. Which can be potent, but damn it is hard to win an election upon. Given recent reports of rapidly dwindlng crowd sizes and remarked upon low ebb supporter enthuasism I'd hazard Romney is vallying at an inopportune time.
posted by edgeways at 7:33 AM on November 2, 2012


"rubbish and paper goods"? Who talks like that?

Perhaps he would enjoy a hamburger sandwich and some french fried pototoes.
 
posted by Herodios at 7:34 AM on November 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


Matt Romney Shops For Investors In Russia, Our 'Geopolitical Foe'
[Matt] Romney’s trip a week before the presidential election underscored the complex relationship between his family’s business and the political campaign. Mitt Romney has criticized President Obama for being too soft on Russia, calling it “our No. 1 geopolitical foe” and promising to confront President Vladimir V. Putin’s government with "more backbone" if elected on Tuesday.

... But while in Moscow, Mr. Romney told a Russian known to be able to deliver messages to Mr. Putin that despite the campaign rhetoric, his father wants good relations if he becomes president, according to a person informed about the conversation.
Mitt Romney during the last debate:
"I’m not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I’m certainly not going to say to him, I’ll give you more flexibility after the election."
posted by ericb at 7:39 AM on November 2, 2012 [6 favorites]


Any Republican enthusiasm is not FOR Romney, but AGAINST Obama

It seems like almost every Romney ad is about how "bad" Obama is, with very little this is why Romney is good, or here's one of Romney's plans.
posted by drezdn at 7:41 AM on November 2, 2012


Relevant to that Red State article -- the Rasmussen tracking poll is showing a tie today.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:41 AM on November 2, 2012


Margaret Sullivan | New York Times: Under Attack, Nate Silver Picks the Wrong Defense.
posted by ericb at 7:41 AM on November 2, 2012


Gum Election 2012.
posted by ericb at 7:43 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


What Rasmussen showing a massive imbalance then changing it's methodology and results just prior to the election to try and scrape some pretense of cribilty after the fact? No! Say It is not so!

Obligatory ''shocked face''
posted by edgeways at 7:46 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also, "rubbish and paper goods"? Who talks like that?

"Small varmints."
posted by ericb at 7:46 AM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


This Obama rally in Columbus, the people of Ohio are seriously excited and rowdy, wow.
posted by cashman at 7:53 AM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


> "Mitt Romney has criticized President Obama for being too soft on Russia, calling it “our No. 1 geopolitical foe” and promising to confront President Vladimir V. Putin’s government with "more backbone" if elected on Tuesday."

Good casting. Of all leaders President Putin will understand perfectly the necessity of appearing grandiose in front of milling minions.
posted by de at 7:57 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm interested to see what Gallup has to say about the national race when it gets back up, since they were +5 points for Romney before they suspended.
posted by OmieWise at 7:58 AM on November 2, 2012


Brandon Blatcher: "I stand by my view that Obama is losing independent voters decisively, because the national and state polls both support that thesis."

I don't think 55/45 for Romney in two of the swing states really counts as decisive, but the wingers have been more disconnected from reality this year than the Kerry camp was in 2004.

OmieWise: "Gallup may have surveyed party ID in a way favorable to this guy's argument, but they also just released their prediction for low turnout this election."

Perhaps it's just wishful thinking, but that's not how I read the polls that actually release their data or the early voting stats. However, that is how Gallup has been reading the election, which is why they've had Romney up by so much more than basically everyone else.
posted by wierdo at 8:01 AM on November 2, 2012


So the next Gallup poll won't be out until Monday, is that right?
posted by cashman at 8:05 AM on November 2, 2012


It will be interesting to see any likely voter versus registered voter differences in Gallup's results, especially after the Daily Kos article (linked upthread) that showed how ridiculously stringent their likely voter filters were.
posted by maudlin at 8:08 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think Monday is right.
posted by OmieWise at 8:09 AM on November 2, 2012


maudlin: "It will be interesting to see any likely voter versus registered voter differences in Gallup's results, especially after the Daily Kos article (linked upthread) that showed how ridiculously stringent their likely voter filters were."

It's not that bad, but it does essentially assume that most newly registered voters and people who have moved since the last election won't vote, especially if they're over 21. I'm not sure if that's borne out by the evidence or not. Given the magnitude of their Romney bias relative to other polling organizations, I suspect it is indeed somewhat too strict.
posted by wierdo at 8:14 AM on November 2, 2012


I know this is probably a pipe dream, but I keep looking at pale, pale pink Florida on the 538 map and thinking about how wonderful it would be to lock up both VA and FL right off the bat. Man I could rest easier at that point. Not guaranteed, just easier.
posted by KathrynT at 8:16 AM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


Wow, Margaret Sullivan does not get Nate Silver at all.
But whatever the motivation behind it, the wager offer is a bad idea – giving ammunition to the critics who want to paint Mr. Silver as a partisan who is trying to sway the outcome.
What? Scarborough challenged his analysis. He is wagering that his analysis is correct. I am certain he would have reacted exactly the same if he was projecting Romney ahead and someone called him a fool for saying so.
...
Granted, Mr. Silver isn’t covering the presidential race as a political reporter would.
THAT'S RIGHT MARGARET. Silver is more of an analyst, and your paper threw a pile of money at him to borrow his credibility, which rests on the unusual fact that he spent years walking out of the casino with more money than he had when he walked in.

I did that myself for eight years and knew other people who tried, some of whom did so too and some of whom failed. Trust me, it's a lot harder than standing in front of a camera and making an ass of yourself.
posted by localroger at 8:22 AM on November 2, 2012 [6 favorites]


I know this is probably a pipe dream, but I keep looking at pale, pale pink Florida on the 538 map and thinking about how wonderful it would be to lock up both VA and FL right off the bat. Man I could rest easier at that point. Not guaranteed, just easier.

Seriously. If Obama wins Florida, Romney would have to win NH, VA, OH, WI, IA, CO AND NV to win. Game over, early night.
posted by Theta States at 8:41 AM on November 2, 2012


While I like Silver quite a lot, and I appreciate his gesture in all senses divorced from his position at the NYT, I actually agree with Sullivan here (who's writing in her capacity as Public Editor). It's unseemly for Silver to be betting on the outcome of something that he's predicting as long as he's doing that predicting for the NYTimes.

which rests on the unusual fact that he spent years walking out of the casino with more money than he had when he walked in.

Is this literally true? I thought his pre-politics credibility rested on his baseball stats work. Can you point me toward that story, I'd love to read about it.
posted by OmieWise at 8:44 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'll add even further that his political credibility rests on his anonymous blogging at daily kos, and no one knew anything about his baseball work or his gambling.
posted by empath at 8:46 AM on November 2, 2012


Silver was on Brian Leher today, and he did not really back down on the bet thing. His perspective of betting as an honorable act was interesting (plus the money would've gone to the Red Cross).
posted by angrycat at 8:48 AM on November 2, 2012


I know this is probably a pipe dream, but I keep looking at pale, pale pink Florida on the 538 map and thinking about how wonderful it would be to lock up both VA and FL right off the bat. Man I could rest easier at that point. Not guaranteed, just easier.


Here's my current thoughts on the Electoral map: Obama 281, Romney 257. I gave Virginia, North Carolina, Florida and Colorado to Romney, figuring they're close states and want give the Mittster as much as he could potentially get, just to see how the map looks.

For some reason, I don't see Florida being called into later in the night, possibly after Ohio. But if Obama does take Florida, then yes, game over for Mitt. I don't see him taking Ohio, Nevada, Wisconsin or Iowa individually, let alone all of them.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:50 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I know it would make everyone's life here easier for a Fl and OH win, and tbh, I hope for the same. I'll say it again, though... there is a small part of me that wants an Obama win without those two states just to a) show it can be done and b) to minimize their impotaince. No slight intended to the fine folks of both those States but I am tired of the over importance of FL and OH to the presidential elections
posted by edgeways at 8:50 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's unseemly for Silver to be betting on the outcome of something that he's predicting as long as he's doing that predicting for the NYTimes.

Why? Because gambling is unseemly? It's a casual legal (as far as I know) wager based on a prediction.
posted by emjaybee at 8:51 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I personally know people who have personally played poker with Nate Silver. He gambles, and when he gambles he wins. When such a person develops a fascination with baseball statistics, while nobody has told me this for certain, it would be rather amazing if there weren't sports books involved.
posted by localroger at 8:54 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Why? Because gambling is unseemly? It's a casual legal (as far as I know) wager based on a prediction.

No, because it makes the issues involved seem like fodder for a horse race instead of a presidential election. As I said, I've got no problem with the bet, and no problem with Silver, and no problem with Silver at the NYTimes. I do, however, agree with Sullivan that all of those things don't go together well.

I personally know people who have personally played poker with Nate Silver. He gambles, and when he gambles he wins. When such a person develops a fascination with baseball statistics, while nobody has told me this for certain, it would be rather amazing if there weren't sports books involved.

Ok. I don't doubt that's true, and I wasn't challenging you in a [citation needed] kind of a way, I had just never heard that Silver's reputation (his general rep, not his rep among your friends, which isn't really germane) rested in part on his success as a gambler. Does it? That seemed to be what you were implying, and I would love to know more about that.

(Seriously, I really love Nate Silver.)
posted by OmieWise at 8:58 AM on November 2, 2012


Just so you're informed if you hear people talking about machines flipping votes in Ohio from Romney to the President - “To my knowledge, it’s one voter in one county”. In Ohio, one woman in one county seems to have made up a story, and as a result the GOP sent that letter/tweet I linked yesterday, acting like there was some actual issue. The linked article says the election officials could not duplicate the error the woman claimed, but they recalibrated the machine anyway.
Maggie Ostrowski, spokeswoman for Husted, a Republican, said the GOP will not get its wish because the Marion incident “is the only issue that we’ve been aware of with voting machines.”

“To my knowledge, it’s one voter in one county,” she said. “We’ve got protocols and procedures in place to ensure that the voting machines are working as they should. ...We’re confident the counties are doing their due diligence.”
Aside from that, there is some good information in there about Ohio vote total releases for this coming Tuesday.
Husted said he has ordered counties to release early-voting results first on election night; he anticipates that those numbers will be available by 8:15 p.m. In recent years, a number of counties didn’t release absentee and early in-person voting results until precincts were totaled later on election night.

In an effort to get election results out more quickly, Husted also has asked counties to release their updated totals at specific times throughout the night. Large counties are to release results every 15 minutes, midsized counties every 30 minutes and rural counties every hour.

Husted said his website, for the first time, will report election results by the six regions of the state, allowing people to track, for example, how Obama is performing this year compared with results from 2004 and 2008.

Once the final, unofficial count is done, counties can release the number of outstanding provisional and absentee ballots they have yet to count.
posted by cashman at 8:58 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I think Obama is going to win Ohio, and the election, and I actually think all the "skewed polls" stuff is setting up the later specious claims of voter fraud. The GOP really hates democracy.
posted by OmieWise at 9:01 AM on November 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


No, because it makes the issues involved seem like fodder for a horse race instead of a presidential election.

Which is in clear contrast to all the rest of the media coverage of this election, including NYT coverage?
posted by muddgirl at 9:04 AM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


I think the only basis for criticizing silver on the bet is if you believe his column is not merely predicting the election, but influencing it.
posted by empath at 9:05 AM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


New 538 post: The Simple Case for Saying Obama Is the Favorite. Silver addresses a few different things that have been talked about the past few days.
posted by cashman at 9:10 AM on November 2, 2012


I think the only basis for criticizing silver on the bet is if you believe his column is not merely predicting the election, but influencing it.

Ok, we disagree. That's ok. I used the word "unseemly" because I think it's unseemly, not a huge ethical lapse.
posted by OmieWise at 9:15 AM on November 2, 2012


Which is in clear contrast to all the rest of the media coverage of this election, including NYT coverage?

What I like best about Silver is that he's grounded in data, unlike the rest of the media coverage. I think the bet lowers the level of his discourse about the election. That's why I object to it.
posted by OmieWise at 9:17 AM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


Geraldo demolishes Fox News ‘misinformation’ on Benghazi: ‘That is a lie!’
Every now and then, something happens at Fox News that shakes up the established narrative. Friday was one of those days.

After weeks of hyperventilating spin-coverage of the tragic events in Libya nearly two months ago, Geraldo Rivera on Friday finally had his fill and lashed out at his coworkers’ “misleading” claims, calling the network’s narrative about the attack “misinformation” designed to support an outright “lie.”

“You are misleading the American people because you want to make a political point,” Rivera told fellow Fox News host Eric Bolling. “We have never in the history of the United States of America mounted a raid on the circumstance described here. We have never done it. The Israelis rescued their people in Tevi — seven days to mount that operation. This was seven hours.”
First Ben Stein, now Geraldo. Shep, it's your turn. Maybe you can tell Fox viewers that there is a world outside the dome where they can live past the age of 30.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:20 AM on November 2, 2012 [12 favorites]


What I like best about Silver is that he's grounded in data, unlike the rest of the media coverage. I think the bet lowers the level of his discourse about the election. That's why I object to it.

I think this is conflating two issues. Silver isn't 'grounded in data' out of some sense of journalistic integrity, any more than statistics-focused baseball GMs or announcers or fans focus on that approach because they think it's for the 'good of the game.' Silver isn't a journalist or a statistician, and it's a little surprising that the NYT didn't realize that when they hired him.
posted by muddgirl at 9:21 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Let's not forget the thing with the bet started with Scarborough calling Silver an idiot on national TV. Some cultures would have called that grounds for pistols at twenty paces.

There is a gambling culture, and advantage players are a very particular niche of that culture. The reason you develop a system like PECOTA (which evolved into the 538 system) is that you make money in sports betting by knowing the real odds better than the guy you're betting against. The precise meaning of those percentages Silver tosses out is "if you are offered a wager on this race, at this point you should accept it if you're offered better odds than this." By doing that you obviously won't always win, but you will win overall if you make enough bets to get in the long run.

Usually you act on this sort of information if your edge is a percent or two. Scarborough is ignoring a thirty point edge. He is, to anyone who ever tried to advantage gamble, the idiot here and what Silver did is exactly the way you call out such an idiot. This is the culture. You think the odds are 50-50, Joe? Let's see you put some money behind it or admit you're full of shit. I have seen this happen for real more times than I can count.

Silver is grounded in data because advantage gambling is an unforgiving occupation; advantage players group gamblers into three groups: Winners, losers (nearly everyone), and failures. If Nate Silver's baseball system had not been a practical winner of cash wagers, nobody would know his name today. And you don't win by being loyal to a team or party. You win by figuring out what's likely to happen, and finding someone dumb enough to bet against you.

Silver's perspective is an advantage play gambler's perspective. It's very recognizable, and and it's the reason for his success. And if you call a gambler an idiot because he's figured the odds wrong, you're a much bigger idiot if you don't expect to be asked to put something on the line to back yourself up.
posted by localroger at 9:24 AM on November 2, 2012 [11 favorites]


Errant Gingrich Email: 'Obama Is Going to Win'
"The truth is, the next election has already been decided. Obama is going to win. It's nearly impossible to beat an incumbent president," advertiser Porter Stansberry wrote in the email to Gingrich supporters. "What's actually at stake right now is whether or not he will have a third-term."
Just when you think the crazy can't get any crazier, they crazily out-crazy your notion of crazy.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:26 AM on November 2, 2012 [7 favorites]


Silver isn't a journalist or a statistician

Silver isn't a statistician? Guh-wha?
posted by psoas at 9:29 AM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


This is the argument from Sullivan that I don't understand:
As Brendan Nyhan noted in Columbia Journalism Review, some pundits resent him because his methods represent a mortal threat to traditional “horse race” political commentary.
Silver doesn't represent a mortal threat to the 'horse race' political commentary. The 538 blog doesn't care about the issues at all. It's horse race politics in it's purest form: Who's up? Who's down?

What it does is destroy the notion that a candidate's spokesperson or press agent determines who is winning or losing in a race.
posted by muddgirl at 9:29 AM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


Silver isn't a statistician? Guh-wha?

Sorry, he's not a trained statistician. He has a BA in Economics. He is a statistician in the sense that he professionally works with statistics.

He said in an interview recently that he feels is theoretical stats knowledge isn't as good as it should be, and that he's going to bone up in the lull between this election and the next one.
posted by muddgirl at 9:33 AM on November 2, 2012


Silver isn't 'grounded in data' out of some sense of journalistic integrity

I'm confused about your point. Regardless of his motivations, what I value in Silver's position and presentation is that he's basing his reasoning off solid data.

localroger actually makes my point pretty well, although he's arguing in favor of the bet. When you reduce his analysis to "want to put money on that?" it moves it into another, less important realm, for me. I understand that for other folks this is different, and, as I said, were it his own blog I would feel a bit differently about it. I think it's not a great play for someone working at the NYTimes.

Silver doesn't represent a mortal threat to the 'horse race' political commentary. The 538 blog doesn't care about the issues at all. It's horse race politics in it's purest form: Who's up? Who's down?

You've elided her use of the word commentary. Silver does challenge all the pundits who are making bank by calling the election a toss-up without any evidence to back it up. He's saying, "Your opinion is not really that interesting or important, and I can show you why."
posted by OmieWise at 9:34 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Sam Wang at Princeton Political Consortium makes that last point exceedingly well, about an article in this morning's Post that almost made me spit out my coffee.
posted by OmieWise at 9:36 AM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


Mark Cuban offers Donald Trump $1 million to shave his head

You know what would be really awesome? Mark Cuban donating 5 million dollars to the Red Cross for Hurricane Sandy Relief. It wouldn't even have to be all Cuban's money; he could get a bunch of rich people to contribute. Hey, Maybe even Romn-- nah, who am I kidding?


Joe Biden reads the Top 10 list on Letterman:

Biden: Trump will give you $5 million if you vote early
posted by Room 641-A at 9:39 AM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


It's nearly impossible to beat an incumbent president

Tell that to Bush I, Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford.
posted by Talez at 9:40 AM on November 2, 2012


Regardless of his motivations, what I value in Silver's position and presentation is that he's basing his reasoning off solid data.

I'm confused as to why the fact that he's basing his reasoning off solid data is degraded by the fact that he placed a public wager based on that data. I'm pretty sure Silver is making private wagers (for example, on InTrade) based on his data - I would be. What about the tweet changes anything?

Silver does challenge all the pundits who are making bank by calling the election a toss-up without any evidence to back it up.

...and again, this fact is changed by him making a bet in what way? In fact, by making a bet isn't he reinforcing the point that Scarsborough knows that he's bullshitting for ratings? It comes back down to Sullivan's argument that betting is just unseemly:
It’s also inappropriate for a Times journalist, which is how Mr. Silver is seen by the public even though he’s not a regular staff member.
posted by muddgirl at 9:40 AM on November 2, 2012


Yes. You and I disagree. You haven't presented anything that refutes my opinion that it's unseemly and degrades Silver's end of the discourse, and vice versa. This is a judgement about appropriate behavior about which reasonable people can differ. But your arguments are not more persuasive or logical than mine just because you agree with them.
posted by OmieWise at 9:43 AM on November 2, 2012


Sorry, I didn't realize that you think betting itself is unseemly. Of course a disagreement on that point can't be resolved in this discussion. We agree on that.
posted by muddgirl at 9:46 AM on November 2, 2012


Oh come on. I've already explicitly stated that I don't think betting itself is unseemly. I think Silver betting, in these circumstances is unseemly. I took it as read that you understood that behavior appropriate in some situations is not always appropriate in all situations. If you can't acknowledge that, then I see why we can't resolve our disagreement in this discussion. We agree on that.
posted by OmieWise at 9:51 AM on November 2, 2012




I didn't mean to be snarky. I must be confused and we should probably take this off-thread if we want to continue.
posted by muddgirl at 9:58 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Silver vs Scarborough is the problem with American political discourse distilled into two individuals. Marvel should be looking at the rights for the Movie adaptation.
posted by fullerine at 9:58 AM on November 2, 2012


I think it's important to distinguish that, despite its wording, Silver's bet isn't really about the outcome of the election; it's about what Scarborough said about his analysis of the election. The circumstances of the bet are that Scarborough called Silver an idiot on national TV, and Silver is asking him to back up his words.

It Really Happened example: A few years ago my wife played poker with a fellow who allowed as to feeling a bit flush because he'd won a prop bet. A friend of his didn't think oil would ever reach $100 a barrel, while he felt it was inevitable, so he offered his friend half a million dollars to back up his thinking. Oil reached $100 before the agreed upon cutoff date, and so he was in Tunica throwing it around.

Silver isn't a journalist, and he isn't strictly a statistician; what he is in the purest terms is an oddsmaker, one of the best in sports and probably the best in politics. His position is described as "blogger," not "reporter." If they didn't know they were getting a betting man when they threw all that money at him, someone at NYT is as big an idiot as Scar.
posted by localroger at 10:01 AM on November 2, 2012


The Third Term

INSIDE: The Secret Plan to Retain Power Through 2020


I cannot guarantee there is no malware on that site.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:01 AM on November 2, 2012


An email message mistakenly sent to Newt Gingrich's list serve this morning

... and do you think Newt still uses LISTSERV? maybe ...
posted by mrgrimm at 10:03 AM on November 2, 2012


Why Obama/Romney Will Win/Lose -- "There are lots of good arguments for why Obama has it in the bag. Or do we mean Romney?"
posted by ericb at 10:04 AM on November 2, 2012


hey, if you close your browser tab on that Stansberry link, you'll get the page is asking you pop up and if you stay on page you can get the whole full crazy transcript. he talks FOREVER to sell a $50/year subscription.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:05 AM on November 2, 2012


It’s also inappropriate for a Times journalist, which is how Mr. Silver is seen by the public even though he’s not a regular staff member.

I doubt this is how he's seen by anyone who knew him before he got hired though, although his visibility must be quite higher now.
posted by ersatz at 10:07 AM on November 2, 2012


And given this press release from Wednesday, my guess is that email was no mistake. Any press is good press to schmucks.

Scroll down and you'll see the "OBAMA'S THIRD TERM?" banner.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:08 AM on November 2, 2012


Jon Stewart: Swing State Hell.
posted by ericb at 10:10 AM on November 2, 2012




I'd rather focus on the actual election, but maybe I can bridge the gap here.

I agree that what makes 538 "a beast" as I overheard some 12-year-olds say in 2008 in an Obama campaign office, is that he is grounded in the data. I was taught to do the same thing, and the most recent time I marveled at just how good Nate is at grounding himself in the material was yesterday evening. Nate's posts are thorough, they are well presented, and so clinical and solid that he makes 538 unhittable. There is little if any point of entry for valid criticism because he lists his sources, details his data, talks about the specifics, and is consistent and knowledgeable.

So because there was no room at 538 to really attack the material, you saw people come out and start attacking him personally because his analysis was too on point to really touch, other than to spout off some uninformed insult, or make some criticism that you know Silver can immediately debunk in posts so fact and statistic laden but still understandable to the layperson, that it just crushes your argument.

Making the bet opens up avenues of attack on 538 that lessens how solid 538 is. It's a distraction (clearly). It lets silly headlines get generated that have squat to do with the nuts and bolts of the facts and numbers that are relevant to the election.

But I'm the same way as Nate. If I analyze something and believe in my analysis, the first instinct against detractors is to bet something, so that someone can't just say whatever they want that is full of nonsense, without some sort of consequence behind it.

But ultimately it is just a distraction. 538 is a beast. I read through those posts and marvel at the presentation, the clear and concise writing, and the almost lack of extraneous information. I personally wish that every website making claims against Nate would make an offline bet, including Scarborough. Whoever's analysis is wrong in the end agrees to end their career, effective immediately. Shut down their website effective immediately. Put up or shut up.
posted by cashman at 10:17 AM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


Mother Jones: Your Guide To Every Obama Conspiracy Theory Ever

One of the listed theories is a claim that Obama visited Mars when he was a teenager.

But that wouldn't be a bad thing, that would make him AWESOME.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:20 AM on November 2, 2012 [7 favorites]


It is clearly in the media's interest to promote the "momentum" angle. A close race means more public interest in the election and therefore higher ratings.

The problem for Romney is that, ultimately, this myth it is not really in his interest. Lukewarm GOP supporters might buy into this idea and stay at home. Lukewarm Obama supporters, on the other hand, might be concerned enough by reports of a close race to get out to the polls.


Oh, it's in his interest all right. Big time. People (especially men) vote when they think their candidate is going to win. If your candidate is going to lose, why bother?

Never forget 12/12/00. "Confidence Game: Why everybody thinks Bush is winning"
posted by mrgrimm at 10:22 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think the only basis for criticizing silver on the bet is if you believe his column is not merely predicting the election, but influencing it.

Well, of course he's influencing the election, unless you think polls mean nothing. He's compiling and aggregating and balancing poll data in an impressive manner that communicates valuable info to anyone who reads it.

And he's not predicting the election either.

But this? "Better idea: Let's bet $2,000."

♥♥♥

If Mr. Joe Scarboroughcountry had an ounce of sense in his head, he would have responded with "Give me 4-1 odds, fucker."
posted by mrgrimm at 10:30 AM on November 2, 2012


@fivethirtyeight: FYI #2: Donated $2,538 to the American Red Cross this morning. Maybe some of you can help out too? http://rdcrss.org/SckTlA
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:30 AM on November 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


$2,538 is cute, but it would have been even cooler if he pledged to donate, say, $100 for every electoral vote he misses the final totals by, or perhaps $100 for every electoral vote in every state he predicts incorrectly.

I also would have liked to see him ask for Joe Scar's map, i.e. what states he thinks Nate has wrong to make the race a "toss-up."
posted by tonycpsu at 10:36 AM on November 2, 2012


A Bet is a Tax on Bullshit
posted by tonycpsu at 10:37 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Apologies if this has been posted before and I missed it.

Obama "Forward" music video.

I'm such a sucker for the "we're all in this together" stuff, but I wish they would pull half the anti-Romney commercials and play this over and over until Tuesday.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 10:38 AM on November 2, 2012


I'm sorry the NYT does not get to lecture anyone on ethics for at least another decade
posted by edgeways at 10:38 AM on November 2, 2012 [7 favorites]


edgeways: "I'm sorry the NYT does not get to lecture anyone on ethics for at least another decade"

By that time, maybe they'll be back to thinking that betting by Times authors (like this example from 2005 is permissible.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:42 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


$2,538 is cute, but it would have been even cooler if he pledged to donate, say, $100 for every electoral vote he misses the final totals by, or perhaps $100 for every electoral vote in every state he predicts incorrectly.

$2,538 is a heck of a lot more than $100 (or $0). And if the one state he misses is CO (likely, IMO), that's only $900 (for $100 per EC vote).
posted by mrgrimm at 10:42 AM on November 2, 2012


Karl Rove's Mission Accomplished (References the awesome Rick Perlstein article posted earlier in the thread).
posted by drezdn at 10:44 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


cashman:
"This Obama rally in Columbus, the people of Ohio are seriously excited and rowdy, wow."
"Leave us alone! Leave us alone!"

Also, I'd just like everyone to know that while I have enjoyed being more important than the rest of you for these past months, I am really looking forward to being a fly-over state nobody again come next week.
posted by charred husk at 10:45 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


On the odds, Silver's prediction tipped over to 80% today, so now it should be five-to-one odds.
posted by JHarris at 10:48 AM on November 2, 2012


mrgrimm: " $2,538 is a heck of a lot more than $100 (or $0). And if the one state he misses is CO (likely, IMO), that's only $900 (for $100 per EC vote)."

Well, actually I was suggesting one for each electoral vote in the states he got wrong, so that'd be $1,100 for his missed call on Indiana. The point being that it's possible he had an especially good year in 2008, and might have something in his model that costs him to miss 3 or 4 states (and maybe a big one like Ohio or PA) that could have him out close to or more than $2500 or so. To match his expected amount "wrongess" in each election to the $2,500 donation, it'd probably have to be more like $200 or $300 per EV, though.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:50 AM on November 2, 2012


Maybe I'm math illiterate, but 80% translates to 4-1 odds to me. (80-20?) 5-1 would be 83.3^% no?
posted by mrgrimm at 10:52 AM on November 2, 2012


Yeah, p = .8 means 4:1 odds. Payoff for taking the long odds is four times what you put down, Payoff for taking the favorite is a fourth of what you bet. Long shot is one-in-five odds, may be the numeric friction in here. Same thing, different ways of saying it.
posted by cortex at 10:55 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


The Third Term

INSIDE: The Secret Plan to Retain Power Through 2020


How long do I have to sit through this garbage before they tell me how they intend to deal with the 22nd amendment?
posted by Talez at 10:56 AM on November 2, 2012


If Mr. Joe Scarboroughcountry had an ounce of sense in his head, he would have responded with "Give me 4-1 odds, fucker."

If he had that much sense he wouldn't have made the comment about Silver being an idiot because he doesn't think it's a dead heat.
posted by localroger at 10:58 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


If Mr. Joe Scarboroughcountry had an ounce of sense in his head, he would have responded with "Give me 4-1 odds, fucker."
Scarborough is the one saying it's a tossup. If he asked for 4-1 odds he would be saying "You're right, Obama's real chance is 80%."
posted by dfan at 10:59 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]




Hey, <person reading this thread>, someone's made a cartoon about you.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:10 AM on November 2, 2012 [7 favorites]


> [Mormons] were always practicing a political faith, never a sound economics.

Economic Insights from the Book of Mormon ... unadulterated, no-nonsense, capitalism. No welfare, just charity, because:
If an economy is made up of caring individuals, they will voluntarily support the poor and invest in public goods without force. And because they receive vicarious joy from helping the less fortunate, they keep their incentives to work hard while the markets are left free to send their signals.
Furthermore:
[T]he powerful economic insight offered by the Book of Mormon is: economic solutions can only be found in living the message of caring taught by Jesus Christ.
Jobs beget jobs, I guess.
posted by de at 11:10 AM on November 2, 2012



INSIDE: The Secret Plan to Retain Power Through 2020

How long do I have to sit through this garbage before they tell me how they intend to deal with the 22nd amendment?


Seriously, he goes on and on and on. Executive summary please.
posted by Theta States at 11:16 AM on November 2, 2012


Hey, hacks: Nate Silver’s not taking your job
What’s especially amusing, though, is that Silver’s conclusion — that Obama is more likely than not to win, based in large part on the polls — is also Joe Scarborough’s position; Joe Scarborough just doesn’t seem to know it. This is Scarborough’s latest Politico blog post. He looks at recent polls and interprets them (with his GUT) thusly:
With President Obama maintaining his five-point lead in Ohio in today’s poll, Romney must run the table on the six remaining swing states or expand the electoral map. Considering how rough the internals look in this morning’s Ohio survey, Boston must know that winning the White House now depends on their candidate stealing Michigan, Minnesota or Pennsylvania out of the Obama column next Tuesday. Their play in those three Midwest states now appears to be more out of weakness than strength, though a new survey does put Romney within 3 points in Michigan.
So. Obama is likely to win Ohio, making him more likely than not to win the presidency. Romney still has a chance but his odds are worse than Obama’s odds. Does that sound like a “tossup” or does that sound like Nate Silver’s conclusion?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:17 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


So far, the conspiracy guy has tempered his statements, saying Obama's 3rd term might actually be "Obama's chosen predecessor".
And that he will lead America to prosperity.
And everyone will love him.
Ummm.

But BOOGITTY BOO HE'S BLACK?
posted by Theta States at 11:21 AM on November 2, 2012


Hey, [person reading this thread], someone's made a cartoon about you.

He didn't get my ears quite right, but that was otherwise very nicely done.
posted by maudlin at 11:21 AM on November 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


So far, the conspiracy guy has tempered his statements, saying Obama's 3rd term might actually be "Obama's chosen predecessor".

Really? Seriously? I bet Obama doesn't even own a bow tie.
posted by maudlin at 11:26 AM on November 2, 2012


Now he's on against socialism, saying moochers that don't pay taxes love socialism, and anyone successful that pays taxes hates socialism.
He's discussing Roosevelt now. ok...
posted by Theta States at 11:27 AM on November 2, 2012


Now he's lamenting America becoming a Democracy.
And now lamenting America's entrance in to World War 1.
And he's obsessed with American oil, saying it enabled socialist schemes.
posted by Theta States at 11:31 AM on November 2, 2012


the conspiracy guy has tempered his statements, saying Obama's 3rd term might actually be "Obama's chosen predecessor"

So the conspiracy is that a political party wants to hold onto power?
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 11:32 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


More conspiracy dude:
"Obama will consolidate power and rewrite the USA constitution, enrich his backers, impoverish his enemies, start new programs, all on a scale never before seen in this country."
"He will do this with oil."
He says all the power will arise from the oil shale boom.
He'll make the USA rich, start new programs, enrich people's lives, and the fools will love him for it.
Apparently.

"The shale oil boom will be the greatest boom in the country's history"
he then goes on to say he knows exactly where to invest to make yourself ridiculously rich.
posted by Theta States at 11:35 AM on November 2, 2012


"Obama's chosen predecessor"

Is that a typo, or did he actually say predecessor?
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:35 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure if this is a hard-sell con to sway investors, or a proper anti-Obama conspiracy theory.
Now he's saying American will soon produce 100 million barrels of oil a year annually.
He then reassures us that no one has done more research than him, so we should trust him. And that also he has made MANY PREDICTIONS, ALL TRUE!



Is that a typo, or did he actually say predecessor?

No, just paraphrasing, I can't remember the exact wording but it was within the first 5 minutes.
But it was something along the lines of Obama's chosen minion.

He hasn't quite got to the part where OBama will rewrite the constitution to allow himself more terms, but the guy highly stresses ROOSEVELT.
posted by Theta States at 11:39 AM on November 2, 2012


Oh snap, he said the glorious prosperity of using fracking technology on oil we seem like a "gift from the prophet Muhammed to President OBama".

Now he's saying the companies that prosper will be FORCED to give some of their spoils to the president, and that they will need LICENSES AND APPROVALS. He says it in a snide way to make it sound like taxes and approvals and environmental regulations are new sinister things Obama has implemented.
"billions and billions and billions will go to D.C."
they will "Get paid" via "Virutal shakedowns". Now namedrops Chavez, says Obama will use tax money as political slush fund.
And that the CROWDS WILL DEMAND A THIRD TERM.

Then he's all Obama sucks, so best you and I get rich on this oil boom now!
Oh boy, where do I give my credit card number?
posted by Theta States at 11:44 AM on November 2, 2012




So is this now the conspiracy-dude thread?
posted by headnsouth at 11:48 AM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


let's let conspiracy dude be crazy on his lonesome
posted by angrycat at 11:52 AM on November 2, 2012


They're never alone.

They're cloned in the underwater farms of Atlantis, on Mars of an alternate universe.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:56 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


So is this now the conspiracy-dude thread?

I get carried away, apologies! (PS he finally said Obama might run Michelle in his place)
posted by Theta States at 11:58 AM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I just got a robo call from some organization asking me if I agree or disagree with Billy Graham's personhoood thing, marriage between one man and one woman, and something about keeping the "god" in "one nation under god." At the beginning of the call, I was told I would be answering one to three questions. I disagreed with Billy's stuff and the call ended. I guess the lady robot didn't like my answer.
posted by cooker girl at 12:01 PM on November 2, 2012


Scarborough is the one saying it's a tossup. If he asked for 4-1 odds he would be saying "You're right, Obama's real chance is 80%."

I don't think so. To be honest, the only attention I pay to the election and foofaraw is via MF, but it sounds like JSC is saying that Silver's prediction is too lopsided--in reality it's a tossup or closer to 50-50.

I don't think demanding 4:1 odds lessens his position at all. If you think a horse is a 50% chance to win and the crowd has it at 20-1, you're not going to ask for lower odds. That's how money management in gambling works - you arbitrage your predicted odds vs. the crowd's (or the Nate's, whichever).

If the 80% certainty is what's at stake, I don't think he's saying "you're right" by asking for 4-1 odds. He's saying "you're wrong and i want to make you pay more for it."

Now if the 50-50 claim is what's at sake, i.e. JSC claimed both candidates had a 50% chance to win, and Silver says "bullshit. you give me even odds and you're on" then the context is a little different.

How long do I have to sit through this garbage before they tell me how they intend to deal with the 22nd amendment?

It's all there in the transcript:

So… how will Obama grab enough political power to re-write the U.S. Constitution and run for yet another term? Simple: I believe he'll launch social spending program after social spending program. He will oversee the largest expansion of the welfare state in the history of our country. He'll launch new federal departments (something he's already done… but will expand). He'll enrich thousands of his backers… and impoverish his enemies… all a scale never seen before in American history.

How will all of this be possible? Oil. More oil than has ever been found before…

Here's the simplest way to understand it…

East Texas was the largest oilfield ever developed in the continental U.S. It has produced around 4 billion barrels. It is thought to hold total reserves of between 10 billion and 20 billion barrels. This field, alone, was big enough to help win World War II and to transform America's economy in the '40s, '50s, and '60s – making us the greatest economic and military power in history. FDR, grabbing this power, nearly transformed America into a socialist totalitarian state. And he did so with the crowds cheering his every move.

Today, in the United States, oil companies have recently found more than 20 different shale fields that contain more than 20 billion barrels of recoverable oil each. These fields are all larger than East Texas. Each one of them…


I'm not sure if this is a hard-sell con to sway investors, or a proper anti-Obama conspiracy theory.

The former. People want to BELIEVE.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:08 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh god. There was a transcript all this time.
posted by Theta States at 12:12 PM on November 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


Oh god. There was a transcript all this time.

Hey, I TOLD you. LISTEN to me. ;)
posted by mrgrimm at 12:16 PM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


Sorry everyone, all that rambling and the whole thing is just to sell email subscriptions for $50.
posted by Theta States at 12:17 PM on November 2, 2012


Now if the 50-50 claim is what's at sake, i.e. JSC claimed both candidates had a 50% chance to win, and Silver says "bullshit. you give me even odds and you're on" then the context is a little different.
That is my understanding of the context.

Scarborough:
Anybody that thinks that this race is anything but a tossup right now is such an ideologue [that] they should be kept away from typewriters, computers, laptops, and microphones for the next ten days, because they're jokes.
Silver:
If you think it's a toss-up, let's bet. If Obama wins, you donate $1,000 to the American Red Cross. If Romney wins, I do. Deal?
posted by dfan at 12:22 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Jobs beget jobs, I guess.

I see it as the book of Jobs.
posted by localroger at 12:25 PM on November 2, 2012


Nonpartisan Tax Report Withdrawn After G.O.P. Protest

“This has hues of a banana republic,” Mr. Schumer said. “They didn’t like a report, and instead of rebutting it, they had them take it down.”
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:25 PM on November 2, 2012 [6 favorites]


For all the Nate Silver bashers on the Right, the thing they forget is that the man, called the gains the GOt(ea)P would make in the 2010 midterms with outstanding accuracy, even giving the GOP the benefit of the doubt in a few cases (He thought Reid would lose in Nevada, and later felt he didn't properly factor in Hispanic vote because there was no polling done in Spanish) (Hmmmm, I wonder if this has changed?), and doing equally well in his predictions for the House, with a few misses like Murkowski winning as a "write-in" candidate in Alaska over that douche TeaPublican Joe Miller.

The man, to my eyes, actually plays it on the safe-side and his ways are measured, sound, and sober. The man, lives and dies (so to speak) by the numbers and his rigorous running of those numbers on an ongoing daily basis.

This isn't a one to play partisan.

He's a statician period, and like it or not, the numbers say what the numbers say, and believe me I really hoped he was wrong in 2010, but he wasn't in the least, and he's not wrong now, and basically all this Right-wing scaredy cats running around trying to put him down and discredit him, and freaking out can go suck an egg.

If Nate says those are the numbers, THOSE ARE THE FUCKING NUMBERS. Too bad. Sux to be anyone the numbers aren't pleasing.

And he's not alone. A number of other number aggregators line up with him.

The only freaky outlier here is Gallup, and they fuck this up, as seems the case, they're fucked, because even Rasmussen (those useless partisan fuckwad) are moving into the mean now so as not to appear too biased and they pull that shit every single election. I've predicted Rasmussen would do that 100% of the last four elections actually.

I think Gallup knows something is off and is taking the excuse of Sandy to try and re-tool. Or not. Something smells way off over there.
posted by Skygazer at 12:33 PM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


Theta States: Sorry everyone, all that rambling and the whole thing is just to sell email subscriptions for $50.

The internet isn't going to be perfected until you can send a lemon meringue pie through someone's computer screen to land upon they're lying con man face.

What's holding up that Apple iPie device?
posted by Skygazer at 12:42 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I've predicted Rasmussen would do that 100% of the last four elections actually.

September, in the motherthread:
jaduncan: The most damning thing about Ras polls is that they have a tendency to be very inaccurate in a R-favoured way when needed, then tighten up at the very moment of the election and point to that final prediction as justification for their claim that they don't have a pronounced house effect.

Skygazer: This is exactly correct and what I've noticed.
November, in this thread:
Rasmussen polls show tie.
I just wanted to preserve this moment in history.
posted by cashman at 12:45 PM on November 2, 2012 [12 favorites]


Sweet! Motherthread posterity so gonna mess up the Rassmussen horse pucky polls. That thing literally contains all the current knowledge in the world. Motherthread was like a mini-singularity of sorts wasn't it?

Ahh...the Motherthread...I remember it with such warm affection.

Thanks, cashman.

posted by Skygazer at 12:50 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I pledge that when Nate Silver's prediction show a Republican presidential candidate (hopefully in the far off future) whom I despise is more likely to get into office than a Democrat that I merely dislike, I will work harder to GOTV instead of discounting Silver's analysis.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:03 PM on November 2, 2012 [6 favorites]


Silver doesn't represent a mortal threat to the 'horse race' political commentary.

Well, he represents the threat to traditional political commentary.

Perhaps a good analogy, since we're talking horses, would be Beyer speed figures.
posted by mrgrimm at 1:09 PM on November 2, 2012




My predictions: Obama wins. He takes Ohio, Wisconsin and all of Axelrod's mustache states. Romney takes Florida and VA.
posted by drezdn at 1:55 PM on November 2, 2012


OH NOES! Dick Morris is starting to see a weakening Republican position.
posted by drezdn at 1:57 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]



Now this is funnay.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:58 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Knock on wood for an Obama win in Virginia.

FYI, the key to an Obama win tin that state will depend on what happens in the Va suburbs around DC.
posted by Skygazer at 1:58 PM on November 2, 2012


Drezdn: Dick Morris is starting to see a weakening Republican position.

Ah ha ha ha...what a dick slice.

After pulling the chains of the dill pickles on the Right so hard for months now with his extra-special, super-perceptive assurance of Romney secret sauce giving him the win, Dick slice Morris is beginning to come around like Rasmussen to grab himself some hide saving plausible deniability...

Shocking.
posted by Skygazer at 2:03 PM on November 2, 2012


Ohio Romney Rally - Interviews with Supporters

Things you will need before playing this video:

Barf bags
Anger management classes
Tissues (as you weep for America)
posted by futz at 2:11 PM on November 2, 2012 [6 favorites]


hey, if you close your browser tab on that Stansberry link, you'll get the page is asking you pop up and if you stay on page you can get the whole full crazy transcript. he talks FOREVER to sell a $50/year subscription.

This actually fits perfectly into the Rick Perlstein article. The basic gist is that the Right wing media's main goal is to part you from your money (and maybe spending a fraction of that helping your candidate).
posted by drezdn at 2:12 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


You know, it's just crystalized for me me why the idea of a President Romney is so repellent to me.

And this is way before the "47%-er victims" video came out, but dovetails perfectly with that attitude.

And it comes down to being a statement made by Ann Romney sometime in the Spring or Summer that seems to perfectly capture the very essence of Romney's presidential ambitions, and was perhaps unintentionally or unwittingly made by Ann Romney when she she said, in answer as to why her husband should be the next president, as if simply saying it was more than enough reason to justify, why Romney should be President:


"It's our turn now."

That's a level of empty-headed, sheer ambition and vapidity that's incredible to my ears.
posted by Skygazer at 2:20 PM on November 2, 2012 [7 favorites]


Dave Wasserman (from the Cook Report -- nonpartisan person as far as I can tell) has been crunching early-voting numbers in Virginia and says they do not look great for Obama.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:21 PM on November 2, 2012


Here is another video at the same rally where people answer questions about women and gay marriage.
posted by futz at 2:21 PM on November 2, 2012


FYI, the key to an Obama win tin that state will depend on what happens in the Va suburbs around DC.

Arlington resident here, you can bet I'll be working my ass off on GOTV election day. It's been good so far, not as good as 2008 was, but that was a 5-point win. We just need 50.01.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:27 PM on November 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


Ohio Romney Rally - Interviews with Supporters
Something gone ate their brains, it did.
posted by angrycat at 2:29 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Here in Tidewater, Virginia, my house has been inundated with Republican robocalls today: 2 from Crossroads, 3 from the RNC, and several from other groups. The urgent and fearmongering tone of all of them is sickening.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 2:34 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Dave Wasserman (from the Cook Report -- nonpartisan person as far as I can tell) has been crunching early-voting numbers in Virginia and says they do not look great for Obama.

Virginia is not an early voting state, it allows absentee ballots only (in person or by mail) with a valid excuse. Comparing requested requested absentee ballots to early voting turnout seems like a stretch.
posted by peeedro at 2:43 PM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]




FYI, the key to an Obama win tin that state will depend on what happens in the Va suburbs around DC.

Democrats, in general, need good strong support in all the urban areas in Virginia - Richmond, Petersburg, all of Tidewater, Northern Virgina, Roanoke, Charlottesville. The more rural western part of the state leans pretty heavily right, as do the central and south-central areas. (Virginia does have a fairly large minority population that leans Democratic, though.)
posted by Benny Andajetz at 2:46 PM on November 2, 2012


Something gone ate their brains, it did.

It has been attributed to the foxus newseum worm. The condition caused by these worms is closely related to the effects of Toxoplasmosa on mice.
posted by futz at 2:46 PM on November 2, 2012


I imagine a lot Federal workers and people who do there thing in DC aren't going to be able to vote early, yeah?
posted by Skygazer at 2:47 PM on November 2, 2012


Benny are you an outlying area of DC. Four years ago, VA looked like a loss for Obama, until all those areas outside DC like a soft cushion, just blew the thing wide open for Obama.

I'm in the Virginia Beach area - although I lived in NoVa for 25 years. We are a huge military area, so there are a lot of conservatives here. There are enough Democrats here to win the day, though.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 2:49 PM on November 2, 2012


I imagine a lot Federal workers and people who do there thing in DC aren't going to be able to vote early, yeah?

You can't voter early no-excuses like you can in OH or other states, so no. I'm taking Tuesday off anyway.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:51 PM on November 2, 2012


The condition caused by these worms is closely related to the effects of Toxoplasmosa on mice.

T. gondii, no doubt.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:53 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


FYI, the key to an Obama win tin that state will depend on what happens in the Va suburbs around DC.

What a coincidence, I visited a buddy who works in DC but lives in Falls Church, VA this weekend (er, week. Thanks Sandy), who was "undecided" but basically hated Mitt and Obama. I dropped some token Obama lines in there and he knows I'm voting Democrat, but I didn't wanna make it a huge issue and rock the boat while I was visiting. Hopefully some of the stuff I said sinks in.
posted by DynamiteToast at 2:54 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Actually, you people from VA might be able to help. One of his biggest beefs, and maybe the easiest to "prove wrong" was that he though Obama was trying to villianize the rich (or at least that his campaign ads seemed to, which is why I mention 'you people from VA' - I don't get many ads in Texas), and that it was disingenuous for Obama to say "we're gonna ask the rich to pay a little more" when that's just one big euphemism since they don't really get to say 'no' when Obama asks. I thought Obama just wanted to let tax cuts run out on the rich and go back to Clinton era taxes. Anybody got any good articles/explanations that might change his mind?
posted by DynamiteToast at 2:59 PM on November 2, 2012


Just got another robocall - this time from John McCain. I feel so honored. NOT.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 3:02 PM on November 2, 2012


Geraldo demolishes Fox News ‘misinformation’ on Benghazi: ‘That is a lie!’

New Details Discredit Fox News Reports On Benghazi Attacks
posted by homunculus at 3:09 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


DynamiteToast: Maybe you could point out that the tax system we have now is extremely regressive. Especially at the top, partly because the rich have access to tax evasion and sheltering schemes that the rest of us don't have.

Maybe it could be rephrased as, "we are going to implement a tax system where everyone pays their fair share," or something. We are not asking the "rich" to pay more than what is reasonable and fair to solve the problems facing the country.
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:10 PM on November 2, 2012


T. gondii indeed! T. gondii has also been linked with schizophrenia and suicide in genetically susceptible people.

True or not, I still stand by my sarcastic point.
posted by futz at 3:11 PM on November 2, 2012


OH NOES! Dick Morris is starting to see a weakening Republican position.

Which he blames on Sandy the SuperCane and Obama's response to it.

It would be hilarious if more GOP operatives like him started blaming a Romney loss on an Act of God.
posted by Rhaomi at 3:51 PM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


Ohio Romney Rally - Interviews with Supporters

Some of that was pretty hilarious. I especially liked the guy who said 'them' (ie,: Buddhists,) were taking away America's freedoms.
posted by Skygazer at 4:02 PM on November 2, 2012


Well, you see it is better to blame a natural disaster instead of policy, candidate or shall we say, human failures. Sandy is the excuse, the perfect excuse for not taking responsibility for ANYTHING. Watch how the punditocracy try to shift and wiggle from previous positions with a "sandy". It is like the ghost from Family Circus of, "Not Me!" Even the pollsters will say, that their data was in flux because of Sandy and that was the unknowable knowable that impacted and skewed their polls. It provides political coverage for folks who ginned up the fervent belief of a guaranteed Romney win, but then a natural disaster took the candidate down 'cause it sure as hell won't be a live boy or a dead girl. They went pretty far on the ice and you are starting to hear cracking and people trying to get to shore.
posted by jadepearl at 4:07 PM on November 2, 2012


The brosapian from the first video I linked sorta redeems himself in the second video. *crosses fingers that he continues to evolve*.
posted by futz at 4:09 PM on November 2, 2012


DynamiteToast: What a coincidence, I visited a buddy who works in DC but lives in Falls Church, VA this weekend (er, week. Thanks Sandy), who was "undecided" but basically hated Mitt and Obama.

No need to try to convince him to vote Obama. He's welcome to vote for Virgil Goode.
posted by headnsouth at 4:13 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Gdammit, Obama admakers, this is not how you make a principled closing argument.

Seriously? Romney is "unsettling"? He "certainly does not have" what "normal" Americans do? Dehumanizing, othering, and openly mocking the guy's obvious smallness might make the base feel good, but it has a strong possibility of backfiring with centrist voters who might react badly to the minimization of him as a person and sympathize with him despite the fact that his lack of redeeming qualities is obvious on his face.
posted by Rhaomi at 4:34 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Are you sure this isn't a spoof? It's almost 3 minutes long, the people have stupid taglines, the music is off and it's overall in such bad taste that I doubt the campaign would greenlight it.
posted by ersatz at 4:45 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Rhaomi, that ad is by some guy called Reuben Glaser. He stuck the Obama clip at the beginning, but it is NOT from the campaign.
posted by maudlin at 4:46 PM on November 2, 2012


I guess the /hamburger in that comment was as small as Mitt's face.
posted by Rhaomi at 4:47 PM on November 2, 2012


Isn't that, you know, so fucking illegal it's not funny?
posted by Talez at 4:48 PM on November 2, 2012


Yeah, I smelled something on the grill right after I posted. I'll have mine with mustard.
posted by maudlin at 4:48 PM on November 2, 2012


I don't know what I'm more astounded about. That after six weeks it hasn't been taken down for being outright fucking fraudulent or that after six weeks he hasn't been brought up on criminal charges or at least given a stern talking to by the FTC.

If SBYA is corrupted in this fashion it means nothing. I'm absolutely livid right now.
posted by Talez at 5:07 PM on November 2, 2012


'New York Times' Bully Knocks Stack Of Polls From Nate Silver's Hands
"Pick them up, you little fuckin' dweeb," said Kriesel, who eyewitnesses confirmed kicked the papers down the hallway before Silver could gather them up. "Hey, Silverdork, I got a poll for you. It says there's a 90 percent chance that I'm going to beat the shit out of you, what do you think of that?"
posted by tonycpsu at 5:09 PM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


I don't know what I'm more astounded about. That after six weeks it hasn't been taken down for being outright fucking fraudulent or that after six weeks he hasn't been brought up on criminal charges or at least given a stern talking to by the FTC.

I need a clue as to what you are referring to. I have scrolled back up and I can't figure it out. Am I missing something obvious? Obviously!
posted by futz at 5:19 PM on November 2, 2012


Kriesel

A Frasier fan working at The Onion then. Not surprising I guess.
posted by howfar at 5:19 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


It says there's a 90 percent chance that I'm going to beat the shit out of you, what do you think of that?

The Onion managed to miss this one. Gambling culture. Satirical Silver would not be hiding in the closet -- he would take the first swing, get out alive, then sue the motherfucker into the ground.

I know a card counter who got over $100,000 from a casino because they pretty much did this to him.
posted by localroger at 5:20 PM on November 2, 2012


Wow, Nate Silver is only 34?
You know you're getting old when you realize people you admire greatly are, in age terms, wee children.
posted by angrycat at 5:22 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]




I think Talez meant the FEC (Federal Election Commision) and SBYA (Stand By Your Ad) provision, which is supposed to enforce the "I approve this message" part of the video meaning that the candidate actually approves this message.
posted by TwoWordReview at 5:28 PM on November 2, 2012


this is not how you make a principled closing argument.
Many have asked the man himself to address what is quickly becoming the election's defining issue, and he has not delivered.
It's very obviously third party satire.
posted by localroger at 5:31 PM on November 2, 2012


I think Talez meant the FEC (Federal Election Commision) and SBYA (Stand By Your Ad) provision

But the video isn't an ad -- it isn't paid, it isn't running in traditional media, and it's obviously satire and marked as such if you read the text right under the video player. The Supreme Court has been adamant that a long tradition of really vicious cartooning and editorializing is protected by the First Amendment. This is clearly very likely covered there IMO but IANAL.
posted by localroger at 5:34 PM on November 2, 2012


Yeah, I would have assumed that the intent of SBYA is that campaigns can't put out an ad without the "approval" part, not to protect them from satire/fake ads.
posted by TwoWordReview at 5:41 PM on November 2, 2012


It's very obviously third party satire.

If only satire were always easy to spot, eh?
posted by howfar at 5:47 PM on November 2, 2012


Good comment from HuffPo:
"remember on Sunday, set your clock back one hour, and on Tuesday be careful you don't set the country back 150 years.”
posted by Skygazer at 5:48 PM on November 2, 2012 [9 favorites]




Bill Clinton is speaking at my boys' high school tomorrow. I will be there with bells on I am so excited! FINALLY an advantage to living in a swing state.
posted by headnsouth at 6:06 PM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]




And 538 continues to tick up again. Will admit I am just a little surprised, thought it'd stabilize around the high 70s. Perhaps there is just a time-running-out adjustment being made, 3 more days of campaigning woo!

And may I just say to whomever out there thought Romney had a shot in MN? 40 years... 40 years since we voted for a R president. Not even the fucker Reagan was able to win MN. Ain't happening this year either
posted by edgeways at 6:41 PM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


And 538 continues to tick up again.

One word: Ohio. Obama is trending up there, and if Obama wins Ohio it's almost impossible for Romney to win the EC.

As I understand it Nate's methodology is to take the data points he has, and run thousands of mock elections applying a little random "noise" within certain parameters mimicking historical errors in the source data, and averaging the results together. Considering Romney's current problems with that "path to 270" and polls trending up in key states, it's not surprising that that model is moving toward 90% Obama.

Of course, as I know all too well, you can lose single bets where you have an 8:2 or even 9:1 or even 35:1 advantage. I actually once won a craps tournament by rolling a 12, the only possible roll that could have saved me. Some other guy lost what he thought was a sure thing on that roll. But then I once played in a lot of casino table game tournaments, so you see weird stuff if you do it often enough.

The problem is we only get to do this election once, and it's always possible for Romney to roll a 12. So don't panic but still GOTV.
posted by localroger at 6:51 PM on November 2, 2012 [5 favorites]


Yay! Went and voted, then got cookies to celebrate!
posted by annsunny at 6:51 PM on November 2, 2012 [6 favorites]


I think Talez meant the FEC (Federal Election Commision) and SBYA (Stand By Your Ad) provision

Ahhhhh. I had been wondering what the purported corruption of the Sarasota Bay Yachting Association had to do with this.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:09 PM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


Well, from what I understand, the closer we get to the election and the more Romney doesn't close the gap, or even worse, begins to slip, the more it's counted against him.

I'm imagining it as a funnel, where the probable outcome has an increasing less chance(or increasingly narrowing probability) of varying from the established means (over time) because the compelling force, or orbit, of those established means becomes much harder to break out of...

I am right. My visual metaphors have a 1001.143275% accuracy rate.
posted by Skygazer at 7:14 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


And 538 continues to tick up again. Will admit I am just a little surprised, thought it'd stabilize around the high 70s. Perhaps there is just a time-running-out adjustment being made, 3 more days of campaigning woo!

In addition to what localroger said, 538's model includes economic factors, but they get phased out as election day crawls closer until the model takes only the polls into account on the eve of the election. The Now-cast has usually been higher than the Nov 6 forecast, so as they are converging Obama's odds for the 6th increase. Basically Romney is running out of time to upset things according to the polls. It's good to remember that there is an error margin and possible model failings, but PEC seems to be rather confident about their error margin and these too had the best results during the last time, so we can only wait and see. Oh, and vote.
posted by ersatz at 7:17 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yeah, as time ticks on towards Nov 6 Romney's path to victory stops being "Maybe some event will happen between now and the election to markedly change people's opinions" (e.g., the first debate) and becomes mostly "Maybe the polls are wrong." The fact that the now-cast and Nov-6-cast are now pretty much the same indicates that he's running out of the first case.
posted by dfan at 7:22 PM on November 2, 2012


In addition to the Now-Cast vs Nov-6-cast thing, I was under the impression that the more polls come in from Ohio (and there have been tons and tons of them), the more confidence the model can display that Obama's little 2-3% lead is real and robust, because of math reasons?
posted by saturday_morning at 7:27 PM on November 2, 2012


Yeah because of math, and also every single citizen of OH has been polled 5x over
posted by edgeways at 7:36 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Exact-a-mundo, saturday-morning.
posted by Skygazer at 7:38 PM on November 2, 2012


- I imagine a lot Federal workers and people who do there thing in DC aren't going to be able to vote early, yeah?

- You can't voter early no-excuses like you can in OH or other states, so no. I'm taking Tuesday off anyway.


One of the valid excuses as listed here is as follows: "Any person who, in the regular and orderly course of his business, profession, or occupation, will be at his place of work and commuting to and from his home to his place of work for eleven or more hours of the thirteen that the polls are open (6:00 AM to 7:00 PM)."

There are a lot of Virginia residents with a 11+ hour workday plus commute, including federal employees and others who work in DC. Tomorrow (Saturday) is your last day to vote early in Virginia, so go ahead and do it if you can!

Also, Virginians (and Marylanders and Washingtonians who want to help VA out): OMG please go volunteer for as much time as you can spare these next 4 days. I finally dragged myself into a local OFA office today, and what I saw there was absolutely pathetic compared to what I experienced in 2008. The number of volunteers running around was really low, the posted goal for total doors knocked in the county was laughably far from being met, and in general the energy and the urgency were just not remotely where they need to be with only 4 days to go. We cannot count on a repeat of 2008 without putting in the effort - I know how I'll be spending my weekend.
posted by naoko at 8:17 PM on November 2, 2012 [7 favorites]


Wow, Nate Silver is only 34?

Shit. I'm only a year younger than him, and he's accomplished so much. I need to get cracking. (The baseball player I also mark time by, Bill Hall, is pretty much worthless in the majors at this point.).
posted by drezdn at 8:34 PM on November 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


Flashman: Romney gets mad talking about Mormonism

This is a very interesting video. Romney reminded me of John Lithgow in season 5 of Dexter, but on the other hand, Romney was probably right to berate the host, Jan Mickelson, who it turns out is a real fucker. Here he is being homophobic:

Jan Mickelson, Iowa Radio Host, Endorses Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's Anti-Gay Stance

and here he is wanting to pistol-whip nuns:

Talk Radio Host Wants to ‘Pistol Whip’ Nuns Who Care About Poor People.

I know he's joking about the nuns, but his idea of humor sort of shows what kind of guy he is. He's another Limbaugh. Who knows what other garbage he spews on his radio show? I wouldn't be surprised if Romney was warned about this guy and was on his guard against a fundamentalist attack on his religion. Seen in that light, I have to say I don't have any problem with Romney flying off the handle there. In any case, Mickelson deserved what he got. No doubt he supports Romney, so maybe we can say they deserve each other.
posted by Bokmakierie at 8:40 PM on November 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


Reid to Romney: Senate Dems Won't Work With You:
"Romney's fantasy that Senate Democrats will work with him to pass his 'severely conservative' agenda is laughable. In fact, Mitt Romney's Tea Party agenda has already been rejected in the Senate," Reid says, listing GOP policies Romney has embraced that the Senate has voted down, including the budget plans offered by vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan, R.-Wis.
Man, win or lose, Harry Reid has simply been awesome during the entire campaign.
posted by Bokmakierie at 8:52 PM on November 2, 2012 [12 favorites]


Romney's path to victor...becomes mostly "Maybe the polls are wrong."

Yes, and I think it's even slightly worse for the right-wing pundits who imagine themselves to have some credibility those who vaguely understand electoral politics. All that's left to them is a a subset of this claim. The overwhelming weight of the polls indicating that Obama leads where he needs to in order to secure 270 means that either you have to move to batshit country and decry them all as rigged, or claim that they're making a systemically false assumption about turnout. There's no wiggle room left for anything else, really.

Literally, the only argument that would be sane right-wing pundits have left is "Romney will win because more people will vote for him". Well.. yeah maybe. That's pretty weak punditry though.
posted by howfar at 8:56 PM on November 2, 2012


NBC News has put out an election book (pdf):

2012 Election Book from NBC News
posted by Bokmakierie at 9:09 PM on November 2, 2012 [1 favorite]






> Yeah, as time ticks on towards Nov 6 Romney's path to victory ... becomes mostly "Maybe the polls are wrong." The fact that the now-cast and Nov-6-cast are now pretty much the same indicates that he's running out ...

Mitt Romney? "Maybe the polls are wrong."?

My estimation of Romney includes a folder of lawyers, working around the clock on the assumption: "Maybe the polls are right", generating folders of swing-state cases where the polls are within the bounds of litigation.

Romney's negotiating a takeover; he regards 47% of the electorate as irrelevant.
This is what he does. Nothing ventured, nothing bained.
posted by de at 12:38 AM on November 3, 2012 [2 favorites]




Pennsylvania will go for Governor Mitt Romney.

Done!
posted by homunculus at 12:49 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


My estimation of Romney includes a folder of lawyers, working around the clock on the assumption: "Maybe the polls are right", generating folders of swing-state cases where the polls are within the bounds of litigation.

Binders, surely.
posted by Rhaomi at 1:12 AM on November 3, 2012 [3 favorites]


Re: Why Romney Will win Ohio

"His two biggest “accomplishments,” the stimulus and Obamacare, are deeply unpopular and never mentioned on the trail."

Obama talks about health care every fucking day and even "Obamacare" polls decently now. And the stimulus? That's how he saved the fucking auto industry, something that's pretty damn popular in Ohio and he mentions every other breath.

Are the GOP so deep down the well of dogwhistles and spun framing that they can't see that the things they don't like are why Obama is winning — because he frames them differently.

For an article that claims to support "the better argument," it's pretty delusional.
posted by klangklangston at 1:24 AM on November 3, 2012 [5 favorites]


I think they are deep down that well of spinning dog whistle frames (it's like a Twilight Zone intro prop), but they also know it's part of their strategy, and they know the strategy works. Yeah, sometimes they get caught saying up is down, but somehow they are almost fucking immune to blowback on that.

I sure don't miss outrage fatigue.
posted by fleacircus at 2:34 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]




Nevada Republican arrested for trying to vote twice

I'd bet money she heard that Voter ID laws are needed to prevent in-person fraud and decided that that meant she could get away with it.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:32 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Washington Post: Mitt Romney’s campaign insults voters
posted by NailsTheCat at 6:35 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Sam Wang (his site is a little Sandy-fied):
President Obama is peeling away. As you can see from the electoral vote (EV) estimator, he is the candidate with the momentum, not Romney. In terms of EV or the Meta-margin, he's made up just about half the ground he ceded to Romney after Debate #1. And the indicators are still headed straight up.

A few days ago, the word was that Team Romney was buying ads in Minnesota and Pennsylvania. If he wins either of those states I will eat a bug. Ohio...a really big bug. And yes, I will post a photo.

posted by JHarris at 6:45 AM on November 3, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Are the GOP so deep down the well of dogwhistles and spun framing that they can't see that the things they don't like are why Obama is winning — because he frames them differently."

Yes. They frame things correctly, so whatever liberals say has no meaning. No need to listen and think if one has decided an entire philosophy is wrong.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:48 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Which is why the morning after is gonna be sorta scary. Whoever wins.
posted by angrycat at 7:15 AM on November 3, 2012


Which is why the morning after is gonna be sorta scary.

No more scary than the morning after in 2008. Less most likely. The SCARY!! BLACK!! MUSLIMKENYANGUY!!!! has already been President for four years and whatever koolaid you've been drinking, the country is still obviously here. For all their rhetoric these fools are all hot air and when they get finished pouting and stomping their feet they will go back to work so they can pay the rent like the rest of us.
posted by localroger at 7:24 AM on November 3, 2012 [2 favorites]


The morning after in 2004 was the most depressing day I've ever had.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:25 AM on November 3, 2012 [12 favorites]


Romney promised another American Century.

Obama's campaign remained silent on that, it's time to stay home and work on infrastructure. However:
"Let there be no doubt, in the Asia-Pacific in the 21st Century, the Unites States of America is all in" -- Obama, November 17, 2011.
Obama has strong plans. Don't you worry about that. :)
posted by de at 7:29 AM on November 3, 2012


Now I kind of want Obama to lose Minnesota (but still win the election!) just so Sam Wang will eat a bug and Axelrod will shave his moustache. #perverseincentives
posted by saturday_morning at 7:30 AM on November 3, 2012 [3 favorites]


It's probably worth remembering that Karl Rove was insisting, in front of any camera he could hog, that 2008 was a lock for McCain right up until the moment when Fox called the election for Obama.

Some of it, particularly at the higher echelons, seems to be that some of them really do believe that they can create reality by force of will. When they fail, it's not that their pronouncements were glaringly stupid, it's that their primitive attempt at magic failed, which they take as an indication to redouble their effort on the next try.
posted by localroger at 7:31 AM on November 3, 2012 [7 favorites]


Silly. Everyone knows redoubling efforts gets you at go nowhere tea parties.
posted by de at 7:33 AM on November 3, 2012


Sam Wang: A few days ago, the word was that Team Romney was buying ads in Minnesota and Pennsylvania. If he wins either of those states I will eat a bug. Ohio...a really big bug. And yes, I will post a photo.

I don't know why but my brain went to an image of him chowing down on lobster and being like "yeah, what?"
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:38 AM on November 3, 2012 [4 favorites]


sometimes they get caught saying up is down, but somehow they are almost fucking immune to blowback on that.

I think a large part of it is that people are really bad at dealing with bald-faced lying. Our whole sense of how social interactions work attempts to forbid us from accepting that someone will just come up to you and say "up is down" unless there's something in it. It's a frighteningly Orwellian approach to politics.
posted by howfar at 7:48 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


chowing down on lobster and being like "yeah, what?"

Lobster for Ohio. Crayfish for Minnesota and Pennsylvania.
posted by localroger at 8:00 AM on November 3, 2012


Here's my theory on not getting caught. The Republican spinsters push the idea that all politicians lie. The Democrat spinsters don't.

This spin by the Republicans leads a large number of people to believe that both candidates are just as dishonest, and that the question of honesty, or lack thereof, is moot, anyway.

For those of us not hearing or refusing to believe this spin, this idiotic false equivalence, the dishonesty on the Romney side is appalling. For those listening to and believing the spin, the dishonesty is just part of the game, and every politician is equally guilty of it.
posted by syzygy at 8:07 AM on November 3, 2012 [5 favorites]


Romney's got it in the bag now, no doubt, thanks to this massive gesture of support from Sarah Palin.
posted by GrammarMoses at 8:13 AM on November 3, 2012


That WaPost editorial is really brutal!
posted by OmieWise at 8:18 AM on November 3, 2012


Virginia voter fraud probe into GOP firm may include up to 40 voter registration employees
Virginia state officials are expanding an investigation to probe the Republican consulting firm Strategic Allied Consulting after canceling a grand jury hearing scheduled for Tuesday for Colin Small, who faces 13 counts of voter fraud for throwing voter registration forms in the recycling bin.

Two sources told the Washington Post on Friday that officials are investigating whether the firm told Small or up to 40 other employees to ask about political leanings while registering voters. This is a violation of election law.

[...]

Though the RNC cut ties with the firm after allegations of voter fraud surfaced in Florida, the Virginia Republican party re-hired the firm.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:24 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


.... this massive gesture of support from Sarah Palin.

From the article, her PAC (SarahPAC) has collected $4.7 million this cycle. Disbursements look like this:
1,300,000    Administrative expenses
  700,000    Fundraising costs
  380,000    Political consultants
   80,000    Donated to congressional races
    5,000    Donated to Mitt Romney
The top three items are probably mostly "money to friends in form of salary" or "business to friend's companies". It's just taking money from the gullible, like any huckster preacher.
posted by benito.strauss at 8:25 AM on November 3, 2012 [10 favorites]




Nate Silver starts off the morning with an 83.7% chance of Obama, and another post on "Cmon guys, not complex, not some crazy modeling thing, if the polls aren't biased, Obama wins".

Actually, if you're just bent on testing whether the 538 model is too complex and secret-saucy for it's own good, you could do worse than keeping an eye on the Montana Senate race:

Polling average: Tester (D) +1.1
538 adusted polling average: Tester (D) +1.7
"State fundamentals": Rehburg (R) +9.1
538 forecast: 68% Rehburg, Lean Republican

posted by ormondsacker at 8:56 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Chris Christie Praise For Obama Frustrated Romney Campaign: Report
Romney insiders told Politico this week that New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie was Mitt Romney's first choice for the vice president, until he decided Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) would be a safer choice due to some problems with Christie.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:00 AM on November 3, 2012


"Some problems with Christie."

If this VP story isn't just BS made up by the Romney people to stick a dagger in Christie, I'll eat a bug and shave my mustache.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:06 AM on November 3, 2012 [10 favorites]


EXACTLY what I was about to say. That is classic schoolyard-style shit-talking.
posted by GrammarMoses at 9:09 AM on November 3, 2012


Kattullus: "3) Chris Christie loves Bruce Springsteen. Bruce Springsteen loves Barack Obama. Bruce Springsteen does not love Chris Christie. Being overtly supportive of Barack Obama might get Chris Christie his holy grail: The approval of Springsteen, even a meeting with him. Believe me -- he'd rather meet with Springsteen than with Obama, or anyone else. "

Win!
posted by tonycpsu at 9:13 AM on November 3, 2012 [6 favorites]


Rupert Murdoch tweet:

Now Christie, while thanking O, must re- declare for Romney, or take blame for next four dire years.
posted by futz at 9:25 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


All you need to know about the ''Romney will win PA'' article is at the end ''Hudome is a Republican media consultant whose clients have included John McCain for President,'
posted by edgeways at 9:29 AM on November 3, 2012


You know perhaps 2016 is the time to run Keith Ellison... that way when they scream Black Muslim! We can be all ''So? That's what you've been saying for 8 years anyways''
posted by edgeways at 9:33 AM on November 3, 2012 [15 favorites]


EXACTLY what I was about to say. That is classic schoolyard-style shit-talking.

The good stuff is always saved for the post-election books and the made-for-tv movies.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:37 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Maddow had some great segments last night if you missed it. "Checkable facts expose end-of-campaign bluster" went through the polling and examined the republicans talking about winning, showing they are basically just trash talking. It includes a clip of Mitt Romney from 2008, the day before the election, saying McCain was going to win. It also shows how the last 3 or 4 republicans have done the whole "we're going to win PA" thing in the few days before the election, trying to act like they have it sown up, and they lost PA every time.

Another segment looked at how in 2008, when the republicans likely realized McCain/Palin were going to lose, that the Palin backers began talking in the media about her own political future in the years ahead. And then sure enough, just Thursday, an AP article has the same thing for Mitt Romney's VP pick, Paul Ryan, with Ryan's backers saying he could go into teaching, possibly resigning from the house if he wants to make a run for higher office in later years.

Nate Silver appeared and said some of the things he put in his latest post. Next Maddow show is Sunday night at 9:00 pm on MSNBC. They are doing some great reporting, and addressing a lot of the issues that we discuss in this thread.
posted by cashman at 9:40 AM on November 3, 2012 [8 favorites]


Romney even being on the air here in Pennsylvania right now is a sign of desperation, as Maddow mentioned in her segment. He sees Ohio slipping away, and, having seen Sandy hit the eastern half of PA pretty hard, sees it as a Plan B if Ohio goes the way the polls suggest. Maybe the Philadelphia/Allentown areas don't turn out. Maybe the Voter ID controversy scares people away from the polls. Maybe the electronic voting machines with no paper receipts cause enough chaos that they can fight it out in the courts.

Another possibility is that they figure since they let up on advertising / campaign stops here for a few weeks, they'll be more effective spending time and money here since the Ohio voters are probably tired of seeing them and their ads. That actually makes some sense, and since we don't have early voting here, maybe a few undecideds break that way. But there's a reason Romney pulled out of PA before, and I have a feeling the recent return is a sign that they know they're not looking good in Ohio, which means the math just isn't there for them.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:50 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Some of it, particularly at the higher echelons, seems to be that some of them really do believe that they can create reality by force of will. When they fail, it's not that their pronouncements were glaringly stupid, it's that their primitive attempt at magic failed, which they take as an indication to redouble their effort on the next try.

Almost all of these last minute "Romney is going to win" type narratives that are sprinkled all over the pundit-O sphere (Politico, NRO, Weekly Standard, and especially Tucker Carlson's loathsome Daily Caller) are almost entirely written by Republican strategic consultants, it's very very curious to think they're able to have much credibility in the matter, but there they are, and as long as they've got that little paragraph, and "full disclosure" at the end of their partisan screeds they're in the clear.

It boggles my mind, why they expect to be taken serious. Then you have the heavyweight guys like Dick Morris who's been gaming and playing this for what I can only assume is pure and sheer personal enrichment, has been predicting a landslide, yes...a frickin' landslide. For months.

Suddenly he, writes a piece (forgive me if I don't get the link), beginning to hedge his bets, same as Rasmussen Polling does, beginning to get back towards reality as the election gets closer.

But Rove for example has enough prestige to literally say "f-ck it" and double and triple down on trying to "create the narrative" (that must be his holy grail in a way. Complete control of the electorate with mere words...)....

TL;DR Creating a situation where a Romney loss creates a massive Right-wing expression of disappointment and rage will be used to feed the next extreme groundswell a la Tea Party, that the GOtP / Fox / Mourdoch etc..will manipulate further...it entraps them, even further if you will, in the phony narrative.

There will be more conspiracies, like the birthers, that will grow from that and will be fed relentlessly (Fox has already richly primed the pump to make Benghazi the next bonkers obsession for the birthers to move on and subscribe too...).

It's kinda a sick mindfuck. Because that hermetically sealed narrative is fed, by it's own cyclical rot.

These folks, lose nothing, in fact they gain, by creating the environment for deep deep disappointment and rage.

They're playing with fire, as we keep seeing, sadly, again and again, with the less mentally stable (like Jared Loughner & Co.), who might feel a need to act out upon their rage or simply don't fully understand the message, but sense the hysteria and rage of it and need to do soemthing.

It's really the most cynical fucking thing I can imagine, because it's obviously a quite lucrative scheme, that just throws peoples minds away and cheapens the whole culture, and will cause death and destruction, but for Fox (and Mourdoch media outlets) and Limbaugh (and his radio imitators), Drudge (and his imitators and associated: Washington Examiner, WND, Newsmax, Breitbart-ian stuff (BigGov Etc), Erikson's Red State, Malkin's Twitchy etc) and even to some extent the networks who entertain this shit, it's simply the price of doing business, and the business of manipulating ignorant, frightened, angry people is very very GOOD ($$$).

I don't think it's that difficult to be one of these clowns and begin clocking major dollars.
posted by Skygazer at 10:13 AM on November 3, 2012 [11 favorites]


Mourdoch Tweets:

Now Christie, while thanking O, must re- declare for Romney, or take blame for next four dire years.

I saw this last night and thought it was so strange and pompous. And now with the light of day it seems desperate and weak-sounding.

I think Mourdoch thinks in dollars, and Christie's bursting of the wingnut narrative, so carefully stoked in his Fox properties and newspapers, has set them back A LOT.

There's like a massive hole Christie kicked in that Epistemic Closure and reality is seeping in...SHIELDS SHIELDS!!!

I think Christie's not done honestly...he can destroy Fox if he wants to at this point. Remember this was the true "chosen one" given the Reagan-mantle by none the less than GOP royalty, Nancy Reagan who begged him, b-e g-g-e-d him, to run....for the GOP presidental nomination.
posted by Skygazer at 10:22 AM on November 3, 2012


Slate: Huckabee says Christians will go to hell if they vote for Obama.

If you vote for Obama you will "put your own soul in jeopardy," says Bishop David Ricken of The Catholic Diocese in Green Bay, WI
posted by homunculus at 10:31 AM on November 3, 2012


On the bright side, Hell has universal healthcare, and it covers pre-existing perdition.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:38 AM on November 3, 2012 [12 favorites]


I wish that we actually enforced laws that mean that electioneering from the pulpit costs tax exempt status.
posted by klangklangston at 11:11 AM on November 3, 2012 [14 favorites]


Good luck with that.
posted by Talez at 11:18 AM on November 3, 2012


klangklangston: "I wish that we actually enforced laws that mean that electioneering from the pulpit costs tax exempt status."

I wish that we would just make all electioneering except that of the campaigns themselves grounds for losing tax exempt status. I don't care if it's a church or a notional "issue" organization. If you pay money for air time or mention a candidates' name or use his/her image in an election year, no tax exemption for you!
posted by wierdo at 11:19 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


I just saw on the teevee that for "Ohio insurance", the Romney campaign is sending Paul Ryan to Minnesota. Minnesota! If your plan for insuring yourself against a loss in an 18 EV Obama+3% state won twice by GW Bush is to try to compete last-minute in a 10 EV Obama +5% state won by Kerry and Gore, you're doing it wrong.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:31 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Margaret Sullivan | New York Times: Under Attack, Nate Silver Picks the Wrong Defense

Margaret Sullivan | New York Times: The Times’s Washington Bureau Chief, and Legions of Others, in Defense of Nate Silver.
posted by ericb at 11:32 AM on November 3, 2012


Well, it would be mighty interesting if the thinking in the Romney camp is that he wins the popular vote but loses the electoral college, then litigates in every single swing state. I mean, that might explain some of the ads in MI and PA.

Feeling kinda paranoid here because I just read this week's super-good article about GOP proponents of voter ID and, in the habit of New Yorker articles, exhaustively and extensively details how stupid and evil and widespread this shit is. I think some of these people are praying for another Florida 2000 -- which makes me want to punch each and every one of them.
posted by angrycat at 11:44 AM on November 3, 2012 [5 favorites]


I think that is part of the strategy, as is the "skewed polls" stuff. I think the big claim will be that Obama stole the election, and not on the fringes.
posted by OmieWise at 11:55 AM on November 3, 2012




Keeping an eye on these Early Voting Percentages here, some of it is unsettling as the percentage of early voting compared to 2008 is off in most states, with only IA coming close (32% to 36% in 2008) and that is, of course, because they began their early voting on 9/27.

And it all makes sense now so fully, how badly the GOtP tried to cut down on the early voting advantage for the Dems from 2008. It's such a deplorable tactic on their part. Not only does it make voting more difficult, it increases the chance of a huge clusterfuck on election day that can be challenged and gamed in court. Grar....

It pisses me the heck off when in trying to decipher a strategic move you fully see how ugly and extreme and lacking in a civic sense of fair play a move is. (it's very angry making. how does one deal with that??), I guess it's a sign of daft naivety on my part, but still it has a bit of Stockholmian effect when you're forced to understand the ugly motivations of the GOTP or anyone using ugly tactics. It's like that quote by Nietzsche (a bit melodramatic yes, lolz...sorta...) about how in dealing with monsters one must take pains to make sure one does not become a monster him or herself.

Or to put it in more simple and crass terms: Play with the pigs, and become a pig. It's a harsh view of the world, but I'm afraid there's truth to it...

[Because even as we rail about the Right-wing echo chamber here, there's the chance of building a congruent echo-chamber on the Left that can be a mirror image of that on the Right if care isn't taken to not be dialectical and simply reactionary to right wing positions and losing nuance and full-perspective.]

Anyhow 3 more days of early voting to match those 2008 percentages, so I think it hopefully gets up up to 2008 numbers again, because it does and election night will be over relatively early. Let's get out there...
posted by Skygazer at 12:00 PM on November 3, 2012 [3 favorites]


OmieWise and angrycat, I fear you are right. For the last month or so I have had the sense that the GOP has been floating this stuff to create a backstory for that claim. Despite any potential damage to our reputations, I would be delighted if we were all wrong.
posted by GrammarMoses at 12:04 PM on November 3, 2012


Angrycat (is angry): I think some of these people are praying for another Florida 2000 -- which makes me want to punch each and every one of them.

Dude, you gotta Rise Above.
posted by Skygazer at 12:04 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


are we ready to become a country in which “Nice country you got here. Shame if something were to happen to it” becomes a winning political argument?

Paul Krugman is tired of trying to reason with you people
posted by Room 641-A at 12:16 PM on November 3, 2012 [4 favorites]


Based on current polls. Romney is going to lose. The tea party caucus in the house will be reduced. The republicans will fail for a second cycle to make gains in the Senate. This is a catastrophic result for their backers.
posted by humanfont at 1:49 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Based on current polls. Romney is going to lose.

You are letting yourself get seduced by facts. Facts have a well-known liberal bias. You should listen more to your gut, which has more nerve endings than your brain and is transvaginally operant with your ego, and therefore capable of willing into reality any result you feel necessary.*

*(The manual omits the wishing upon a star step, but the forums suggest it helps.)
posted by localroger at 2:05 PM on November 3, 2012


Based on current polls. Romney is going to lose.

I hope so, humanfont, I really, really hope so:

Last-Minute Ohio Directive Could Trash Legal Votes And Swing The Election
The directive, issued Friday, lays out the requirements for submitting a provisional ballot. The directive includes a form which puts the burden on the voter to correctly record the form of ID provided to election officials.

[...]

According to a lawsuit filed late Friday by voting rights advocates, this is “contrary to a court decision on provisional ballots a week ago and contrary to statements made by attorneys for Husted at an Oct. 24 court hearing.”

[...]

The court gave Husted until Monday to respond to the lawsuit and indicated it will resolve the dispute before provisional ballots are counted on November 17.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:05 PM on November 3, 2012 [2 favorites]


Nate Silver has expressed doubt that even the most aggressive vote suppression tactics could make more than a 1% swing, which is considerably less than Obama's current advantage in Ohio.
posted by localroger at 2:08 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Catastrophic? There's piles more where that came from. Is anyone bankrupted? Are the Koch brothers anything less than insanely rich? Is Roger Ailes still in charge at Fox? Is Karl Rove still bleating and blathering for anyone looking to fill air time?

Are these terrible people thoroughly discredited, to be exiled from politics for an age? Even if (and that's still if) Obama wins it'll probably be by less than two percentage points of the national vote. If we don't make good inroads into all those accursed red states (including the one I'm writing from), the pendulum will swing back in four years and we'll get another BUSH. How many lives will be lost in that administration's version of Katrina, I wonder, how much damage will that cycle's Dick Cheney do?
posted by JHarris at 2:08 PM on November 3, 2012 [3 favorites]


Nate Silver has expressed doubt that even the most aggressive vote suppression tactics could make more than a 1% swing, which is considerably less than Obama's current advantage in Ohio.

Thanks for that, localroger.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:20 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


James Fallows, a much smarter person than I am, sounds on NPR freaked-out about the GOP's insistence that they will win, so I pretty much feel completely justified in my freaked-out-ness. He's like, GOP is like the Dems were in 2004 re: John Kerry, i.e., GOPers can't imagine that the country will continue in its mad lurch towards Socialist Caliphate, just as the liberals were all, 'surely the country will realize the man in charge has the brain of a rabid mouse'
posted by angrycat at 2:32 PM on November 3, 2012


I literally cannot watch this ad too many times.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:52 PM on November 3, 2012 [12 favorites]


The real question is this:

If the GOtP doesn't do well this election, loses the presidency, and the Senate, and maybe the House, do they double and triple down on their hysteria by comparing the loss to some terrible terrible violation of all things America holds dear (how can they even make that more intense at this point?) and try to whip up so much fury and fear and nationalist fervor that it becomes the glue for the social conservatives and the "free-market/Randian" cultists to decide to keep working together?

Or does some person, perhaps a Christie or a Rubio-type, you know a centrist-type pragmatic Republican, says:

"Look, we need to look at the reality of what's happened in this country. We're not connecting. We need to look at the demographic shifts. We have to forget the social issues, the anti-women stance, the debasement of immigrants, the alienating of African-American's, the intolerance towards civil rights for the LGBT community and the complete indifference to youth culture and we need to accept and get beyond those things. We can't control those things any longer.

but we can overhaul and revitalize the party by a renewed focus on small-government, fiscal responsibility and a tough foreign policy."

Possible or not?
posted by Skygazer at 2:59 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


a centrist-type pragmatic Republican

In 2000 this was a description of McCain.
In 2006 it was a description of Romney.

The problem seems larger than just finding the right empty suit.
posted by gerryblog at 3:18 PM on November 3, 2012 [2 favorites]


If the GOP fails spectacularly this election, they are finished as a single party. They will split. The social conservatives and business guys who only ever had a loose detente based on their mutual hatred of social progressives will part ways, one of which (which is unclear) to keep the Republican brand and the other to probably form a new party.

This is not unprecedented, though it hasn't happened since the 19th century and hasn't been seriously tried since the early 20th. There's a reason our parties today aren't the Tories and Whigs.

The initial result will be a Democratic stranglehold, which will probably lead very quickly to a corporate takeover of the Democratic party. After that, the looking glass turns to milk; it will be chaos for a few years. Ultimately a new oppositoin coalition will form. It could take awhile for them to gain enough traction for national viability, and it's very unclear what their platform might be -- though I can see a possible future where disposessed progressives who are already upset with Democratic corporate ties link with now-Republican evangelicals who reconnect with the Christian directive to care for the poor and weak forming a large progressive party. Then again I'm on my fourth glass of wine.
posted by localroger at 3:20 PM on November 3, 2012 [3 favorites]




do they double and triple down on their hysteria

They will mostly double down. I think their one takeaway from this election will be to not talk about rape in public. But, overall, conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed.

Besides, without their true believers, they'd have nothing. Their 27%, consisting of mostly gullible older white people, can still consist of over 50% of the vote in off year elections and a solid 40-45% in presidential elections. But if they don't keep those people fired up about the Kenyan pretender and impending Sharia Law somehow mixed in with gay marriage and encroaching secularism, the GOP loses its one and only advantage.

And I think they'll stay together. A party split puts them nowhere and the virulently anti-tax people that are left in the party seem to tolerate the spittle-flecked fundies. There's no real reason for a divorce yet.
posted by honestcoyote at 3:24 PM on November 3, 2012


localroger, some version of that chaos has been my only hope for American politics for a long time. It'll take about the rest of our adult lives to shake out, probably, but a version of America in which the fight is always between the progressive and centrist wings of the current Dem coalition would be a much better country.

Republican elites seem to think it can't possibly happen, but at some point a brand becomes so toxic the party can't actually be saved. A decade as a rump party followed by subsumption into the right flank of the Democrats seems a reasonably likely outcome here, especially if they triple-down on the old white men only strategy for 2014 and 2016.
posted by gerryblog at 3:26 PM on November 3, 2012


You can find numerous examples of everyone saying "if x party doesn't win, it won't exist as one party anymore" for the last 100 years.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:30 PM on November 3, 2012 [2 favorites]


I can't see the GOP losing the house, Skygazer. This isn't going to be a Democratic "wave" election -- more of a Democratic "meh, okay, fine" election. I figure the Dems net a few seats, maybe kick a couple of tea party freshmen like Crazy Joe Walsh out, etc. but the idea of a Speaker Pelosi for the 113th Congress just doesn't seem realistic to me.

If the GOP does loses a lot of seats, but retains their majority, House it's hard to predict how things will go, but I wouldn't expect big changes. Boehner will probably remain speaker, but I think he'll assert more leadership over the House instead of letting Eric Cantor basically call the shots. I would expect a tough battle for the gavel, but Boehner probably holds on.

Obviously the right thing for them to do from an avoiding party extinction point of view would be to slow down the express train to Crazy Town and work with Democrats on occasion in the House, but the hard-right Tea Party types can always just say that Romney was never really a Republican anyway, so they should do their best to obstruct Obama's agenda for another four years. If they had run Bachmann or Santorum, maybe that would have caused them to re-evaluate how they're selling the brand, but they can always just blame things on Romney and say they didn't run far-enough to the right in 2012.

Who do they run in 2016? Given the GOP's demographic problems, I don't see how they run another white guy. Maybe Rubio, maybe Susana Martinez if she develops more of a national profile... Obviously Christie will get a long look, but who knows what sort of positions he'll take on national issues -- he could end up running as a moderate or a hard-right conservative. He's really the wild card to me.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:30 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


The Economist: The presidential election in 90 seconds.
posted by ericb at 3:33 PM on November 3, 2012


You can find numerous examples of everyone saying "if x party doesn't win, it won't exist as one party anymore" for the last 100 years.

To be clear, I don't agree that the party will split. I think it'll wither. They've not only failed to make inroads into other demographic groups, but have actually actively alienated them. They may still find a way to turn it around, probably by taking Karl Rove's mid-'00s advice to loosen up on immigration, but maybe they won't and they'll just get too small to be able to win national elections. It's happened before.

The Dems won 1992, 1996, 2008. 2000 was a coin flip. One actual victory in twenty years (2004), very narrowly, while the incumbent party, during wartime, should be quite troubling to them. By 2016, they won't have cleanly won the presidency as challengers since 1980, and the demographics just get worse and worse for them each year. Something's got to give; either the party's got to change, or it will die.
posted by gerryblog at 3:34 PM on November 3, 2012


gerryblog, I think the most likely scenario is that within 20 years we will see the Democratic party turn into the Republican party of the 1960's, and a totally new party emerge which will become the Democratic party of the 1970's, and they will be the big two for another 50 years or until global warming covers the country in glaciers and seawater.

There are lots of other possibilities though. 7 is the most likely outcome from throwing a pair of dice but unless you're Joe Scarborough you don't bet even money on it.

room317, yeah you can find such pronouncements but seldom with so much backup material. The Republicans have been deeply divided since at least 1980, and in this election the stress lines are showing more clearly than ever. Romney is the last person who will even come close to being elected in a national general election after winning a current-composition GOP primary.
posted by localroger at 3:34 PM on November 3, 2012


James Fallows, a much smarter person than I am, sounds on NPR freaked-out about the GOP's insistence that they will win

The 'Pre-Delegitimization' Watch: It Begins
posted by homunculus at 3:36 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Incidentally, this is why I think the "important election" hype is actually justified this time around. I buy Jonathan Chait's last-chance thesis completely: Why 2012 Is the Republicans' Last Chance. If they win this time, they throw up barriers to progressive policy that will last decades, most directly on the Supreme Court; if they lose, the Dems should either be in charge for a generation, or we'll see the GOP liberalize to a point that will have basically the same effect.
posted by gerryblog at 3:39 PM on November 3, 2012 [2 favorites]


we'll see the GOP liberalize to a point that will have basically the same effect.

I'm not convinced this will be the result. I think the more likely result is that the GOP radicalizes explicitly, under the Koches et al, and there is a "moderate" party formed from those who are pushed out.
posted by OmieWise at 3:50 PM on November 3, 2012


I think the more likely result is that the GOP radicalizes explicitly, under the Koches et al, and there is a "moderate" party formed from those who are pushed out.

I think that's possible too, but that's a "Dems in charge for a generation" result. It'll take a while for the new two-party balance point to be found, whatever it will be, and in the meantime the current Democrat coalition will be hegemonic.
posted by gerryblog at 3:54 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


and there is a "moderate" party formed from those who are pushed out.

I tend to think this is the more likely outcome. However there are devils in the details of how the coalition will emerge, what its platform will be, and what its relationship will be to the increasingly corporatist (because dominant, and attractive to contributors) Democrats.
posted by localroger at 3:54 PM on November 3, 2012


Oh, Florida, you never fail to disappoint.
On Saturday afternoon, Brian Reynolds was a glitch. He was standing in the parking lot outside the library, talking to a woman named Jo Brooks. Brooks had come to Florida from California to work with the president's campaign at the polls, answering questions from voters who were increasingly baffled by the increasingly baffling election procedures that have been foisted on the electorate in the wake of that electorate's having had the audacity to elect a black Democrat to be president of the United States in 2008. Reynolds told Brooks what had happened to him.

He had been waiting since 9:30 that morning. Three hours later, he'd finally gotten through the doors and into the library, where he had shown the ladies at the desk his photo ID, and he'd been given his ballot and directed to another line leading into another room. He waited another half-hour, and he eventually wound up at another desk. The man told him to put his ballot into a machine. Reynolds did as he was told. The problem was, of course, that he hadn't actually voted. He'd followed the precise instructions of the only two election officials he'd encountered and he wound up casting a blank ballot. Brooks, who'd admitted that she'd never seen a situation quite like this one, could only offer Reynolds an opportunity to fill out an report on what had happened. "There's nothing else," she told him. "Technically, you already cast your vote."

Deliberate? An understandable accident? It was probably the latter, but that didn't matter to Brian Reynolds, who was sitting despondently on a curbstone. "Three hours," he said. "Three hours, I wait here to vote. I want to vote. It's important to vote. And I do everything they tell me to do, and my vote does not count. That is not right. They should educate the people in there to do what's right."

The line went past him, all the way to the end of the parking lot. Brian Reynolds sat on his curbstone and watched the other people who were waiting to vote. His day as part of the World's Greatest Democracy was over. He had cast his vote. For nobody.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:11 PM on November 3, 2012 [5 favorites]


There's a headline on the NYT right now that reads "Resilient Romania Finds a Currency Advantage in a Crisis" and I was most of the way through the first paragraph before I realized I had greatly misunderstood
posted by saturday_morning at 4:13 PM on November 3, 2012 [3 favorites]


You can find numerous examples of everyone saying "if x party doesn't win, it won't exist as one party anymore" for the last 100 years.

Known in Canada as:

1993: Liberals win a majority: Progressive Conservatives -- not so much. "Ah-ha-ha! Tories, party of 2!"
1997: Liberals with another majority. The populist, socially western conservatives (Reform Party) form the official opposition, the Bloc Québecois is in third. The PCs hang on gamely with a respectable 20 seats.
1998: Charest, one of the last Red Tories, steps down as PC leader and takes on the leadership of the Québec Liberals. Former PM Joe Clark (also a Red Tory) returns as leader.
2000: The Reform Party absorbs some of the right wing PCs and becomes the Canadian Alliance.
2000: Liberals win their third majority in a row under Chrétien. The Canadian Alliance is the official opposition. Joe Clark's PCs get only 12 seats.
2003: The remnants of the Progressive Conservatives and the Canadian Alliance merge as the Conservative Party of Canada under the leadership of everybody's favourite man with cold, dead fish eyes, Steve Harper. And they mean it, maaaaan.
2004: Liberals form a minority government under Paul Martin, but the new Conservatives are pretty close behind.
2006: Conservatives win a minority, almost perfectly swapping the seat count from the last election.
2008: Conservatives win a minority again, but by a much bigger margin.
2011: Conservatives win a majority, the NDP under Jack Layton form the opposition, and the Liberals dwindle to just 34 seats, half of what they got in 2008 and a third of their seat count in 2006. Former Ontario NDP leader Bob Rae takes over as interim leader of the Liberals.
2011-present: Lots of chatter about a possible NDP and Liberal merger, but many remain skeptical.

So does 18 years count as a generation?
posted by maudlin at 4:21 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


THE REPUBLIC OF ROMNIA

Form of Government: Aristocratic Kleptocracy
National Flag: Blank Etch-a-Sketch
National Anthem: America the Beautiful, sung off-key
National Bird: Vulture
National Pastime: Dressage
National Tree: Any tree that's the right height
National Motto: "You didn't build this."
posted by tonycpsu at 4:22 PM on November 3, 2012 [10 favorites]


Last-Minute Ohio Directive Could Trash Legal Votes And Swing The Election

Jon Husted Isn't Bad for Ohio. He's Bad for Democracy.
posted by homunculus at 4:42 PM on November 3, 2012


> So does 18 years count as a generation?

In terms of elections, that is almost the shortest amount of time until having a new batch of voters who had no history, knowledge, or experience with the parties policies from before they were born. So yes.
posted by mrzarquon at 4:43 PM on November 3, 2012


Oh, Florida, you never fail to disappoint.

Bomb Scare at Florida Polls: Not Even as Ugly as It Gets
posted by homunculus at 4:46 PM on November 3, 2012


THE REPUBLIC OF ROMNIA (cont'd)
Currency: The Mitten (1 Mitten pegged to "Ten thousand bucks")
Official Language: English, of course
Official Religion: Mormonism, But Not That Weird Kind With the Sister Wives, For Pete's Sake
Demographics: 98% White, 2% "The Help"
Chief exports: Jobs, bombs
Chief imports: Oil. Lots and lots of oil.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:49 PM on November 3, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'd love to see a post-election push to recall Jon Husted and all the Secretaries of State who have been trying to infringe on the right to vote.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:59 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Can anyone recommend for good websites to monitor the vote count on election day (apart from Metafilter, of course)?

I think I remember NYT having a fairly good graphic tracker in 2008, but anyone aware of sites for streaming live Wolf-Blizer-free video?
posted by smithsmith at 5:09 PM on November 3, 2012


Seconded, smithsmith, and thanks for asking the question I keep meaning to ask and forgetting.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:11 PM on November 3, 2012


NJ voters displaced by Sandy will get chance to vote by email

We can't even do electronic voting machines right, but somehow we're going to trust ballots that arrive via the same channel as boner pill spam? Surely this...
posted by tonycpsu at 5:11 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Is Esquire's Charles P. Pierce the same as Wait Wait Don't Tell Me's Charlie Pierce?
Either way, CPP is my newest lib-geek crush
posted by angrycat at 5:14 PM on November 3, 2012


somehow we're going to trust ballots that arrive via the same channel as boner pill spam?

SMILING BOB FOR PRESIDENT.
posted by localroger at 5:15 PM on November 3, 2012


AskMe that just went up: What's the difference between internal polls and public polls?
posted by cashman at 5:15 PM on November 3, 2012


There's really not an appropriate place for this, but I just wanted to say that Wolf Blitzer is really not so much a name as an Anglo-Saxon honorific.
posted by Grangousier at 5:27 PM on November 3, 2012 [7 favorites]


Is Esquire's Charles P. Pierce the same as Wait Wait Don't Tell Me's Charlie Pierce?

He is. Which I didn't believe at first, and still have trouble believing.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:23 PM on November 3, 2012


somehow we're going to trust ballots that arrive via the same channel as boner pill spam?


VOTE ROMNEY IN 2012 AND ADD TWO INCHES TO YOUR PENIS
posted by never used baby shoes at 6:28 PM on November 3, 2012


VOTE ROMNEY AND ADD A SIX FOOT DICK TO THE WHITE HOUSE
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:31 PM on November 3, 2012 [20 favorites]


VOTE ROMNEY AND GET SCREWED MORE OFTEN; HE HAS BINDERS FULL OF WOMEN
posted by never used baby shoes at 6:38 PM on November 3, 2012


Real Women Vote For Obama
"If I were to define personhood it would be like, ‘Well, hello, I’m a person. It’s my choice. Nobody’s going to tell me what to do with my body, honey.’”

VOTE ROMNEY AND BUY YOUR MEDICINE FROM CANADA
posted by Room 641-A at 7:02 PM on November 3, 2012 [2 favorites]


There's really not an appropriate place for this, but I just wanted to say that Wolf Blitzer is really not so much a name as an Anglo-Saxon honorific.

Louis CK, on the other hand is like the name of the BK's next deluxe triple patty mega-apocalypse burger, with a special sauce you definitely don't want to know too much about, lettuce cheese, bacon, chocolate fish syrup on a fresh rainbow brioche with candy sprinkles.

It comes with a bag of dicks on the side. Foe people whose names sound like Anglo_Saxon honorifics and work for CNN.*

*Louis CK is motherfucking hosting SNL tonight.


Yes!!

*FISTPUMP!*

posted by Skygazer at 7:08 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Watching Bill Clinton stumping for Obama in Bristow, VA (on MSNBC). Great job. I love this guy!
posted by ericb at 7:42 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]




If you were Mittens, would you try to get on SNL tonight? I was going to ask that and then I read an article detailing how Obama accepted the invitations to go on television and do interviews, and Mitt has turned down whatever offers he has gotten. What's the count on how many days its been since he has answered a question from a reporter? Anyway, the article noted that even as late as yesterday, they (snl) would have tried to work either the President or Mittens. But I would think it would have leaked already if either one of them was going to be on it.

I wonder if Zombieflanders is at this VA rally. Thanks for the reminder, ericb. I have to say, the crowds at these things have been getting more excited, more enthused and more rowdy and boisterous. And the President's rapport with the crowds is palpable. It's great to see. Combine that with state polls that are pretty obviously pointing to something, and aggregators that are pointing to the same thing, and I am just glad things are looking the way they are.
posted by cashman at 7:58 PM on November 3, 2012


Newspaper endorsements - Obama 36, Romney 27. Uh...did Mitt lose an endorsement?
posted by cashman at 8:04 PM on November 3, 2012


Clinton is appearing in my city, Raleigh, NC (at Pullen Park if you know the area) tomorrow afternoon/evening. I would give anything to be there but unfortunately I'm having some health issues at the moment. It would make my year to see him in person.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 8:14 PM on November 3, 2012


That is right next to NC State if I recall correctly.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:28 PM on November 3, 2012


Apathy Check: Per Nate Silver's Twitter feed, conservative legal author Ted Frank offers a link-rich, and statistically literate*, and surprisingly evenhanded argument for the FiveThirtyEight model (and polling generally) being more fallible than many suspect, and the race being much more of a toss-up than we realize.

*(seriously, he uses the word "homoskedasticity" in an earlier post. UnskewedPolls this is not.)
posted by Rhaomi at 8:51 PM on November 3, 2012 [3 favorites]


Saw Clinton in Roanoke, Va tonight. According to the fire marshall about 2, 300 people attended. McCain was across town at the same time and drew 300.
posted by sumdim at 8:58 PM on November 3, 2012 [3 favorites]


Please tell me you guys just saw Louis CK on SNL do a "Lincoln" skit in the style of his TV show...it was so so funny. AND...AND...it was completely totally applicable to this thread's discussion of Lincoln.
posted by Skygazer at 9:06 PM on November 3, 2012 [4 favorites]




sumdim I was there too! My kids go to school there & went to see Clinton speak too. Great talk. I think I'll go ahead and vote on Tuesday :)
posted by headnsouth at 9:12 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Apathy Check: Per Nate Silver's Twitter feed, conservative legal author Ted Frank offers a link-rich, and statistically literate*, and surprisingly evenhanded argument for the FiveThirtyEight model (and polling generally) being more fallible than many suspect, and the race being much more of a toss-up than we realize.


1) Polls have historically had a bias against Republicans relative to how election day turns out. Silver disputes this; I've explained why his analysis on that question might be wrong before. On the other hand, the 2012 polls may have fixed this problem.

I think Sam Wang reaches similar conclusions as Silver.

2) Polls have historically had a bias overestimating the performance of sitting presidential incumbents. But if undecideds break 75-25 against Obama, that's a 1- or 2- point shift relative to the polls.

Sam Wang disputes this scenario claiming that he made a similar decision with Kerry and it threw off his results.

It's great that Ted Frank engages with the data and some of these factors might be in play, but I think I'll follow the guys who make predictions for a living and have a track record of a few elections when it comes to getting informed about the state of the race. Would that more Republican talking points were as well-composed though.
posted by ersatz at 10:08 PM on November 3, 2012




It's great that Ted Frank engages with the data and some of these factors might be in play, but I think I'll follow the guys who make predictions for a living

To be fair, he says almost the exact same thing:
I have to recognize that there's some chance that I'm suffering from confirmation bias, looking only at the data that favors my preferred result, and that I'm wrong. Nate Silver is spending a lot more time thinking about the election and polls than I am, and it's more likely that he's seeing things that I'm not than I'm seeing things he's not; maybe if I were to try to duplicate his efforts, I would end up with a model that was closer to his than my current thoughts are. I thus have to discount my thinking that Romney is doing better than Silver thinks. I think partisans on both sides have been silly about Silver, with some Democrats treating him as infallible to the point that a challenge of Silver is a challenge of scientific truth, and some on the right being simply innumerate in their attacks on Silver.
While I also disagree with Frank, I respect that he wrote a very reasonable and smart column offering some possibilities, and then has the humility to criticize himself about it.
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:16 PM on November 3, 2012 [4 favorites]


STEPHEN OHLEMACHER, Associated Press – 7 hours ago: Obama seems to have early vote lead in key states

More than 27 million people already have voted in 34 states and the District of Columbia. No votes will be counted until Election Day but several battleground states are releasing the party affiliation of people who have voted early.

So far, Democratic voters outnumber Republicans in Florida, Iowa, Nevada, North Carolina and Ohio — five states that could decide the election, if they voted the same way. Republicans have the edge in Colorado, which Obama won in 2008.
posted by cashman at 10:20 PM on November 3, 2012 [2 favorites]


I wish that we actually enforced laws that mean that electioneering from the pulpit costs tax exempt status.

Political Activity By Religious Groups Continues Unchallenged As IRS Not Enforcing Rules
posted by homunculus at 10:56 PM on November 3, 2012


homunculus: "Slate: Huckabee says Christians will go to hell if they vote for Obama.

If you vote for Obama you will "put your own soul in jeopardy," says Bishop David Ricken of The Catholic Diocese in Green Bay, WI
"

This Catholic says that guy? Can go fuck himself.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 11:00 PM on November 3, 2012 [5 favorites]


^ The Bishop David Ricken doesn't take his argument far enough.

"Intrinsically evil", he says:

1. abortion
2. euthanasia
3. embryonic stem cell research
4. human cloning
5. homosexual “marriage”

That's the short list. Don't vote Obama.

There's other intrinsically evil stuff happens in this world, not supported by either political party in which the Catholic Church is complicit. So, without mentioning choir boys:

If you are Catholic you will also "put your own soul in jeopardy".
Can't win, really. Someone needs to print up that flyer and hand it around quick-smart.
posted by de at 12:02 AM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Silver's up to 85.1% in favor of Obama, meaning Romney only wins on 1-3 of a D20. (Of course if it comes up 1 we have to fight a wandering monster.)
posted by JHarris at 12:23 AM on November 4, 2012 [11 favorites]


(Of course if it comes up 1 we have to fight a wandering monster.)

A Scotus?
posted by Anything at 12:27 AM on November 4, 2012 [4 favorites]


With a SC0TUS of 44 you'll need an 8 to hit. If you're in AZ, CA, CO, OR, or WA, roll initiatives.
posted by fleacircus at 1:05 AM on November 4, 2012 [14 favorites]


localroger: "The initial result will be a Democratic stranglehold, which will probably lead very quickly to a corporate takeover of the Democratic party. After that, the looking glass turns to milk; it will be chaos for a few years. Ultimately a new oppositoin coalition will form. It could take awhile for them to gain enough traction for national viability, "

I seem to remember a lot of this talk in late '08 and early '09. I even believed it would happen until the Brothers Koch whipped up the Tea Party like a skilled barista making your favorite espresso-based beverage. I just don't see an overwhelming rejection of the Tea Party coming up in this election. If the House was likely to change hands, I could see the extremists being at least temporarily chastened, but it's not likely in the cards.

Also, I'm not sure which Democratic party you're talking about, but the one I see has already been taken over by the business lobby. By and large my support of them is because they're less enthusiastic about it and occasionally have second thoughts about grinding the people under their heels, second thoughts that can be used to our advantage. If we're lucky, they might even appoint Supreme Court justices who don't completely buy into corporate personhood, but we'll have to see about that...
posted by wierdo at 1:09 AM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Sandy was certainly a random encounter...
posted by kaibutsu at 2:26 AM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


SNL Louis CK Lincoln skit
posted by angrycat at 5:19 AM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]




Funny how none of those actually changed the game.
posted by octothorpe at 5:56 AM on November 4, 2012


May I suggest that it's time the phrase "game-changer" was placed in a sack with a brick and thrown into the canal?
posted by Grangousier at 6:16 AM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


I guess we could throw it under the bus.
posted by Dr Dracator at 6:21 AM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


The biggest change this year is Louis C.K. made Saturday Night Live funny.
posted by fullerine at 6:22 AM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


I seem to remember a lot of this talk in late '08 and early '09.

Ironically the difference in '12 is Citizen's United, that great fat sloppy wet kiss to big business that was supposed to seal the permanent Republican majority.

It turns out that unlimited spending on political ads doesn't really seem to move the dial that much in a national general election; after a certain saturation point ads just get ignored. But what CU did do was shatter the GOP's 60-year-going detente between the social conservatives and business elites.

The lunatics and whackjobs have always been given a seat at the Republican table, but they've also always bowed out at an appropriate moment so that the real leaders could get on with business. This year that didn't happen, largely because the lunatics and whackjobs could tap funding sources that were never available in the past to stay in the race. So the GOP primary was an expensive, noisy embarrassment that left their candidate with a difficult legacy of loud promises guaranteed to be unpopular with a more general electorate.
posted by localroger at 6:54 AM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


May I suggest that it's time the phrase "game-changer" was placed in a sack with a brick and thrown into the canal?

Along with "double down" and "pivot."
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:41 AM on November 4, 2012 [5 favorites]


Quick question. Does anyone have any links on the strategic thinking being robocalling? Is it targeted at supporters in order to push them to vote? I can only think that anything else seems more likely to be counter-productive as beneficial, given that most calls to landlines these days seem to be from some sort of tape player or other. Seriously, what Obama supporter won't be infuriated and scared and encouraged to vote? I'd have thought that even luke-warm Romney supporters would be pissed off, given the barrage of campaigning they've suffered in swing states.

So yeah, any information on whether this is being used in any sensible way?
posted by howfar at 7:44 AM on November 4, 2012


When I did GOTV in 04 and 08 the thinking was that any contact was good contact, even if on the level of the conscious mind it only seemed aggravating and excessive. (It seemed crazy to me too, but I was just a grunt.)

The campaigns I was working with (MoveOn in 04, OFA in 08) had the opinion that marginal voters were entirely untrustworthy and that you couldn't trust them to vote if you drove them to the place yourself.
posted by gerryblog at 8:05 AM on November 4, 2012


Melissa Harris-Perry on MSNBC:
"[Jon Husted] is getting on my last nerve."
QFT
posted by Room 641-A at 8:19 AM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


howfar: "Quick question. Does anyone have any links on the strategic thinking being robocalling? Is it targeted at supporters in order to push them to vote?"

Chris Hayes devoted several segments this morning to discussing the effectiveness of various methods of connecting with voters to get out the vote. The first segment was basically the panelists debating whether the trend toward micro-targeting and other mass marketing type approaches is a good or bad thing for democracy.

Later on, they brought on a guest who's done a lot of empirical research about methods of connecting to voters, and it was an interesting, lively discussion. At one point, they showed a couple of charts where with the success rates for each method of connecting with a voter -- I think door-to-door was 1 vote for every 14 visits, volunteer-led phone banking was something like 1 in 30-40, and direct mail was somewhere in the 200s. They didn't talk specifically about true robocalls in this part of the discussion, but my guesstimate is robocalls are probably more effective than direct mail but less effective than a scripted phone call from a volunteer.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:22 AM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


my guesstimate is robocalls are probably more effective than direct mail but less effective than a scripted phone call from a volunteer.

They're harder to ignore than direct mail, certainly, but not that much harder. It's much easier to hang up on a robot than on a person. We're obviously talking about GOtV efforts at this point, and there are probably not enough undecideds who will actually vote left to make a difference, but I do wonder whether this is throwing money at a problem that can only be efficiently addressed through labour. Obviously if more money is all you have, and you're losing where you need to win, it's a sensible tactic is to try pretty much anything, but sensible tactics are not necessarily effective ones.
posted by howfar at 9:08 AM on November 4, 2012






Saw Clinton in Roanoke, Va tonight. According to the fire marshall about 2, 300 people attended. McCain was across town at the same time and drew 300.

sumdim I was there too! My kids go to school there & went to see Clinton speak too. Great talk. I think I'll go ahead and vote on Tuesday :)

Clinton joins Obama for rally wrapping whirlwind day of campaigning:
"He has been traveling all across the country for this campaign. He's been laying out the stakes so well that our team basically calls him the 'Secretary of Explaining Stuff,'" Obama said. "He was a great president; he has been a great friend."

As the final weekend of the 2012 campaign raised the question of which candidate, Obama or Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, would best move Washington past its intractable problems, Clinton, a president who has only grown more popular since leaving office, offered Obama his imprimatur.

"As you see, I have given my voice in the service of my president," the hoarse former president said, following some local favorites, the Dave Matthews Band, at the rally in suburban Washington.
When Obama thanks Clinton by name during his victory speech, y'all better turn down the volume on your TVs! It's going to be LOUD at McCormick Place!
posted by Bokmakierie at 10:00 AM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


I just saw this at Politico about Obama's radio ad for Mazie Hirono for Senator from Hawaii and thought it was pretty cool. I've always loved Obama's diverse family and Hawaiian background.

Obama boosts Hirono in Hawaii:
"Years ago, Mazie worked with my late grandmother. So Mazie isn’t just a reliable partner of mine in Washington; she is part of my ohana at home in Hawaii," Obama says in the ad. "Now, I need Mazie’s cooperative style and commitment to middle-class families in the U.S. Senate."
"grandmother", "ohana", 45 point coattail ... how can Hirono lose? (Hirono is actually +15 in the most recent polls.)
posted by Bokmakierie at 10:19 AM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


A thought occurred to me. I was thinking about why so much of the crazy far-right was still foaming at the mouth over Obama being POTUS. It seems like there has been such an uptick is the visible crazy and (while it may just be my imagination) it seems to have been steadily on the rise for this election season.

Theory: The far-right is losing their collective minds far MORE for more this election than the previous because this one can't be viewed (to them at least) as a fluke. Last election they can easily pretend was a blip in the will of the country. "That Black man got elected because we weren't vigilant enough. We let our guards down, got complacent. But his time we are united in our cause to Remove-the-Negro-from-our-White House."

So if they see (as I'm hopeful we will) that it wasn't a fluke, the US really does think an African American can continue to run the country just as well (or better) as a Caucasian, it might not be a pretty sight. We may actually be able to hear their brains overloading in two days.

I really wasn't expecting to see much change in their reaction to the election compared to 4 years ago, but as I thought on it, I realized it is possible that they do extreme/violent things. That kind of worries me a bit.
posted by Twain Device at 10:22 AM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]




Sunday Best: Don't Let the GOP blame Sandy
Republicans are trying to make this the thumbnail story of the campaign: Romney was winning heading into the closing stretch until a freak super storm (not at all connected to global warming, of course) the week before the election turned things around for Obama. Basically, Obama got lucky. If they can succeed in making that definition stick, then it completely dismisses the substance of the campaign and undermines Obama’s mandate for governance in a second term. If Obama only won because of bad weather and good timing, Republicans can tell themselves and the American people, then we can’t really take his win as a rejection of Republican tax policy or Mitt Romney’s dishonesty, or an endorsement of Obamacare and reproductive rights. Instead, the storm narrative puts an asterisk next to an Obama win, sowing a doubt and diminishing the significance as if the hurricane were a performance enhancing drug.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 10:40 AM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


If you're in the market for a new monitor, laptop, or phone, I invite you to know despair. [Caution: You may experience an urge throw your existing monitor, laptop, or phone across the room while viewing the video.]
posted by ob1quixote at 10:48 AM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


1. On Ryan's expressed desire to be another Dick Cheney-style "active" vice president, I invite you all to imagine what he'll keep in his man-sized safe. But please do so within from the context of noticing how he's a "protests too much" style of gigantic homophobe.

2. C-Span just announced an upcoming chat with Mitt's brother Tagg Romney. Wow. Is it even possible for Republican candidates not to have goofy family names? In case it is not for some reason, I offer them this service, a list of names they can use in naming further brothers/children/household pets
Torp, Chap, Trig, Chort, Sloot, Porp, Larn, Mork, Whoop, Fleek, Hork, Slark, Thmurp, and Flerk.
posted by JHarris at 11:06 AM on November 4, 2012 [7 favorites]


A thought occurred to me. I was thinking about why so much of the crazy far-right was still foaming at the mouth over Obama being POTUS. It seems like there has been such an uptick is the visible crazy and (while it may just be my imagination) it seems to have been steadily on the rise for this election season.

Nah, the Clinton years were just as deranged. Maybe even moreso - after all, McVeigh blew up 400 Americans in part because Clinton was president.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:07 AM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


I predict that this (via) will make Charlie Pierce's next "Things in Politico that Make Me Want To Guzzle Antifreeze" post
If President Barack Obama wins, he will be the popular choice of Hispanics, African-Americans, single women and highly educated urban whites. That’s what the polling has consistently shown in the final days of the campaign. It looks more likely than not that he will lose independents, and it’s possible he will get a lower percentage of white voters than George W. Bush got of Hispanic voters in 2000.

A broad mandate this is not.
Apparently winning the popular vote without winning white dudes and independents is dirty pool now.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:08 AM on November 4, 2012 [19 favorites]


Theory: The far-right is losing their collective minds far MORE for more this election than the previous because this one can't be viewed (to them at least) as a fluke

Good call. In the reverse direction, I know a lot of liberals who were more discouraged by Bush's reelection in 2004 than his election in 2000, because people had no excuse, they knew what an idiot he was, and how could they vote for him?
posted by msalt at 11:09 AM on November 4, 2012 [5 favorites]


tonycpsu: Absolutely. It's like the people who criticize candidates for pandering to women (i the majority of the electorate), as if it's some crazy splinter group.
posted by msalt at 11:11 AM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


If you're in the market for a new monitor, laptop, or phone, I invite you to know despair.

I was wondering when these would start popping back up. Somehow I saw the outtakes the other day before seeing this actual footage. Somewhere around that lady saying the President is simultaneously a member of a church, and a muslim, and that the President's father was a muslim and an atheist, and the lady saying she saw a drone flying overhead "watching us", I had to just kind of chuckle.

The interviewer did this back in 2008 as well, and in the clips they publish, he is really good at maintaining a straight face and providing relevant context, much like Daily Show interviewers do. It's too bad all journalism can't be like this. And it can't be like this with public figures because they just stall and misdirect until the clock runs out.
posted by cashman at 11:25 AM on November 4, 2012


Emergency Lawsuit Filed In Florida Over Long Lines At Early Voting

There was no sympathy from the state for Floridians who have reportedly waited as long as eight hours to vote early, prompting Florida Democrats to file an emergency lawsuit Sunday morning.

The suit, filed in Miami federal court, seeks extended voting hours in counties including Palm Beach, Miami-Dade and Broward because of "inadequate polling facilities."

"The extraordinarily long lines deterred or prevented voters from waiting to vote," the filing claims, according to the Miami Herald. "Some voters left the polling sites upon learning of the expected wait, and others refused to line up altogether. These long lines and extreme delays unduly and unjustifiably burdened the right to vote."

Despite previous calls from prominent Democrats and Monroe County's Republican Supervisor of Elections Harry Sawyer, Republican Governor Rick Scott has steadfastly refused to keep polls open beyond an 8-day early voting period that ended Saturday at 7 p.m. -- or make that Sunday 1 a.m., when the last voter in line in Miami-Dade was finally able to cast a ballot.

"We think that the hours we have right now are the best hours we've ever had," Chris Cate, a spokesman for Florida's Secretary of State, told the Herald during the week.



This is despicable.
posted by futz at 11:27 AM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


The 100th Day of the Romney Administration

That almost made me throw up. It's too real.
posted by madamjujujive at 11:29 AM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


The GOP solution to long lines in Miami-Dade.
In response, Republican-affiliated election officials in Miami-Dade have effectively extended early voting from 1PM to 5PM today by allowing "in-person" absentee voting. But this accommodation will only be available in a single location in the most Republican area of the county.
Sociopaths.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:39 AM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


May I suggest that it's time the phrase "game-changer" was placed in a sack with a brick and thrown into the canal?

Along with "double down" and "pivot."


I nominate: surrogate
posted by madamjujujive at 11:42 AM on November 4, 2012


From Jimmy Kimmel, this is hilarious:

Chris Rock - Message for White Voters
posted by Bokmakierie at 11:57 AM on November 4, 2012 [5 favorites]


I saw the extra form sheister Secretary of State Jon Husted added to the provisional ballot process in Ohio and I felt good for a second, thinking that people would easily choose the last four of your ssn and be fine. But I realized that if the form is deemed to be incorrect in any way, then they can throw it out (not count the vote). And it just adds another way to peel off votes, reduce the electorate, suppress the votes of Ohioans.

Hopefully tomorrow this madness gets thrown out. Husted does not deserve to hold office.
posted by cashman at 12:00 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Miami-Dade shuts down in-person absentee voting after crowds line up outside

So many voters showed up at the Miami-Dade elections headquarters in Doral to cast absentee ballots in person Sunday afternoon that the department shut down the operation less than two hours in, saying it did not have enough resources to help everyone.



holy shit.
posted by futz at 12:08 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


FTA:

“We had the best of intentions to provide this service today,” she said. “We just can’t accommodate it to the degree that we would like to.”

Shortly after, however, the department locked its doors and shut down the operation without explanation. The people in line did not get to vote.

“Let us vote!” they shouted.

The department had only one ballot-printing machine, five voting booths and two staffers to assist voters Sunday.

“This is America, not a third-world country,” said Myrna Peralta, who waited in line with her 4-year-old grandson for nearly two hours before being turned away. “They should have been prepared.”

“My beautiful Sunshine State,” she lamented. “They’re not letting people vote.”

Tow trucks later began towing voters’ cars parked in a lot across the street from the elections department. “This is intimidation!” one voter yelled.
posted by futz at 12:11 PM on November 4, 2012 [7 favorites]


futz: Holy shit. My blood is boiling right now. This is third-world-nation-level bullshit. Amazing.
posted by gc at 12:19 PM on November 4, 2012 [4 favorites]


This is madness. The next step is violence and it is going to be horrific.
posted by fullerine at 12:22 PM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


I am so freaked out by this that I have been pacing the floor trying to decide if I am over reacting. I don't think that I am. This is what it has come to. The GOP just keeps upping the ante. Just when you think that the craziness can't get any crazier, it does.
posted by futz at 12:27 PM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


Wait, this was a REPUBLICAN location they fucked over? I mean, the Democratic areas of that county were already screwed -- that was baked in -- but they offered, then took away, absentee voting access in a REPUBLICAN area?
posted by maudlin at 12:28 PM on November 4, 2012


I just clicked on the link and it looks like they're reopening it and trying to make amends I guess. Hopefully that helps with your pacing a small amount...
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:28 PM on November 4, 2012


Also in Breaking Florida Voting News - Orlando, Florida:
Early voting has resumed today at one site in Orange County.

Following a judge's ruling, voters can cast their ballots until 5 p.m. today at the Winter Park Public Library, said Orange County Supervisor of Elections Bill Cowles. It's the only location where early voting will be held today.
The rest of the article says the votes will be provisional ballots because of the extension, and ends with this:
Those ballots will be sealed in envelopes in case the extension is challenged in court, Cowles said. If there's no challenge, the votes will then be counted. It was not immediately clear what the deadline for filing a challenge would be.

But Oliver said the county GOP had no plans to appeal, calling the judge's decision to allow four hours of voting after Saturday's loss of four hours "pretty reasonable."
Sorry if this is making you pace, but just know you're not the only one nervous about all these tactics are going to wind up.
posted by cashman at 12:35 PM on November 4, 2012


but they offered, then took away, absentee voting access in a REPUBLICAN area?

Look at the video at the link and see what the people look like who are waiting in line, and see if you're surprised still.
posted by cashman at 12:39 PM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


What has been the closest popular vote disparity in US history? I feel like another plus of getting rid of the Electoral College is that issues like this, while still awful, will get lost in the statistics of a national popular vote.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:41 PM on November 4, 2012


Look at the video at the link and see what the people look like who are waiting in line, and see if you're surprised still.

OK, less surprised now.

Good god, Tuesday is going to be a complete clusterfuck.
posted by maudlin at 12:43 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


I keep playing Black Box over and over. It's not helping.
posted by winna at 12:45 PM on November 4, 2012


Closest popular vote was Garfield vs. Hancock 1880. The margin was 1,898 votes out of 4,453,337, or 0.09%.

Closest postwar election was Kennedy vs. Nixon 1960 -- margin of 112,827 / 34,220,984 or 0.17%.

Pretty darn close, statistically speaking.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:47 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]




You're right, thanks for looking it up for lazy me. Looks like we'd probably still have these problems even if the popular vote was all that mattered.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:52 PM on November 4, 2012


Redskins are losing!Time for me to panic.
posted by drezdn at 1:01 PM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


This thread is freaking me the fuck out, so I am turning off Metafilter and heading over to an Obama GOTV staging area to see if I can be put to use. Come join me.
posted by Wordwoman at 1:05 PM on November 4, 2012 [6 favorites]




CBS Sunday Morning: Taking the pulse of Nate Silver's numbers.
posted by ericb at 1:08 PM on November 4, 2012


I think you're right, though, DynamiteToast... to pick up a hundred thousand net votes, you'd have to intimidate an awful lot of people away from the polls, all across the country. (Not that, you know, that couldn't happen.)

On a much more important note, if Obama wins on Tuesday, this will mark the 6th election in a row where the losing candidate has had a one-syllable first name.
posted by saturday_morning at 1:08 PM on November 4, 2012


Redskins are losing!Time for me to panic.

That was already disproven in 2004 when the skins lost to the packers but Bush stayed president, but here, have this XKCD comic which will prove handy in these next few days.
posted by cashman at 1:09 PM on November 4, 2012 [4 favorites]


Grangousier: May I suggest that it's time the phrase "game-changer" was placed in a sack with a brick and thrown into the canal?
Every Single Political Game-Changer of the 2012 Election, Tim Murphy, Mother Jones, 4 November, 2012
A few months back, the New York Times' statistics guru Nate Silver made an observation: "The phrase 'game changer' has been used 2,870 times in news outlets over the past 30 days." That was in July, before the debates, 47 percent, and about three dozen-over-caffeinated Drudge Report headlines. When I did the same search on Thursday, I found 19,600 results, which, all things considered, seems a bit low. Since the phrase entered the Pantheon of Political Cliches™ four years ago, the term has become so ubiquitous a crutch for political pundits that it officially entered the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary earlier this year.

Here is a list of every event in the last 10 months that has been labeled a game-changer in the presidential race:[…]
posted by ob1quixote at 1:10 PM on November 4, 2012


James Fallows: Today's Ignoramus-Nation Moment: 'Best Revenge'
posted by homunculus at 1:14 PM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


Pew Research Poll - Released: November 4, 2012: Obama Gains Edge in Campaign's Final Days.

Obama holds a 48% to 45% lead over Romney among likely voters. Our final estimate of the national popular vote is Obama 50% and Romney 47%, when the undecided vote is allocated between the two candidates based on several indicators and opinions.
posted by cashman at 1:18 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


YouGov Poll of 36,000 likely voters from Oct 31-Nov 2nd, courtesy the 538 Twitter feed: Obama 48.5, Romney 46.5. [click on 1. 2012 Presidential Vote (leaners allocated)]
posted by cashman at 1:21 PM on November 4, 2012


If the Republicans are setting up to blame Hurricane Sandy for the president's re-election, then Governor Christie may shoulder the blame. New York Post editorial on Chris Christie's responsibility to the Republican party.
But Christie does need to go one step further and reassure his party — and not just his party — that he hasn’t turned coat.

He needs to bring Romney into the discussion by reminding voters — some of whom may have been swayed by media partisans who eagerly spun Obama’s Jersey trip as a quasi-endorsement — just who his candidate is.
posted by gladly at 1:53 PM on November 4, 2012


From that CBS Sunday Morning story on Silver:
Here are CBS' most recent poll results: "A very close race," Dutton said. "Forty-eight percent for President Obama, 47 percent for Mitt Romney - just a one-point lead for the president. And that is within the poll's margin of error."

Meaning, President Obama and Gov. Romney essentially neck-and-and at the end of that race.
Oh. I guess the Electoral College has mysteriously vanished and the popular vote (skewed hugely on a regional basis) is all that counts.
posted by maudlin at 1:57 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


As I read about the Ohio and Florida voting situations, I realize how privileged I am to be living in Oregon where I can verify that my ballot has been received and counted.

This shouldn't be a privilege for those of us in Oregon and Washington. I hope if any good comes out of this resulting clusterfuck is people consider the vote by mail option as a serious alternative to evoting and so on.
posted by mrzarquon at 2:11 PM on November 4, 2012 [8 favorites]


There was no sympathy from the state for Floridians who have reportedly waited as long as eight hours to vote early, prompting Florida Democrats to file an emergency lawsuit Sunday morning.

I remember Romney's warning against 'the path to Greece', but maybe the GOP should follow the path to Greece to the point where voters don't have to wait for more than half an hour in high-density polling stations and may vote in 5 minutes in mid-density polling stations. It's rather nice.
posted by ersatz at 2:37 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


This shouldn't be a privilege for those of us in Oregon

Not so fast, Oregon. "Oregon Secretary of State Apparently Demands that Postal Service Stop Delivering Ballots with Insufficient Postage".
posted by cashman at 2:43 PM on November 4, 2012


I say that jokingly, by the way. The process in the PacNW really does seem modern and a world away from the cluster in the Midwest.

Also, Steve Kroft will be doing a report on the craziness in the Senate tonight on 60 minutes. The NYG-PIT game seems to be slightly behind so I'd guess it'll come on a little later than scheduled.

The report apparently features Senator Tom Coburn, R-Okla., saying
"The best thing that could happen is all of us lose and send some people up here who care more about the country than they do their political party or their position in politics."
posted by cashman at 2:48 PM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


From "Taking The Pulse Of Nate Silver's Numbers," linked above:

[...]"Nate has gotten very good reviews from people who have studied his methodology, but just like a clock, even the most inaccurate pollster gets it right from election to election," said GOP strategist Frank Luntz, a CBS News consultant. "And just like a clock, even the most accurate people will get it wrong from time to time."

EXCEPTION: LUNTZ CHECK, REPUBLICAN SPINDOCTOR DETECTED, EJECT REASONING, SEND TO HELL.

And CBS news calls this known asshole a consultant?
posted by JHarris at 3:05 PM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


I've seen Luntz on the CBS morning show with Charlie Rose and I really don't get it. Well, I get it, I just expected a little more from a Rose-anchored show. Just a little.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:18 PM on November 4, 2012


> "Oregon Secretary of State Apparently Demands that Postal Service Stop Delivering Ballots with Insufficient Postage".

Why the ballots aren't postage paid, I really don't know. I mean, the envelopes are pre addressed. They could get a negotiated rate with the USPS for bulk mail, etc.

They also caught someone tampering ballots in favor of the GOP. Which of course means the system works (we caught them, we just need a "none of the above" option on the ballot it looks like). Of course, this may turn into a rallying cry to go back to voting booths, but I don't think that would hold any water with people who have seen the benefits already (and since it was fraud in favor of the GOP, I don't see them trying to draw more attention to it). But then, that is the reasonable stance all along: our current voting system works fairly well, and more regulation making it harder for people to vote isn't going to magically fix it (especially since the problems appear to be with what happens after the ballot is collected, not who is filling out the ballot). Of course, 85% voter turn out everywhere would ensure a democratic party monopoly, which might even mean the rise of a new left party now that the democrats are just about centrists at this point.
posted by mrzarquon at 3:20 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


New York Post editorial on Chris Christie's responsibility to the Republican party.

Well, he said he was going to vote for Romney at last night's press conference.
posted by homunculus at 3:33 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Well isn't this interesting: Connecticut Republican Senate candidate urges voters to choose her... and Obama.
posted by Neneh at 3:39 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


"A very close race," Dutton said. "Forty-eight percent for President Obama, 47 percent for Mitt Romney...

I think Romney deserves exactly 47% of the vote.
posted by Brian B. at 3:46 PM on November 4, 2012 [7 favorites]


Bill Clinton's rebuttal to the Des Moines Register's endorsement is up:

Bill Clinton: Romney wants to undo progress Obama made
posted by Bokmakierie at 3:49 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Huh. So McMahon is actively trying to hang on Obama's coat tails. I wonder if she expects low-info voters to assume she's a Democrat, and for the smug undecided "independents" to think this is a lovely, non-partisan salute to breaking gridlock.

(That multiple party listing option Connecticut has is deeply weird, but I think New York and maybe some others do something similar with Working Families Party, right?)
posted by maudlin at 3:55 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]




Huh. So McMahon is actively trying to hang on Obama's coat tails. I wonder if she expects low-info voters to assume she's a Democrat, and for the smug undecided "independents" to think this is a lovely, non-partisan salute to breaking gridlock.

Exactly. She's also engaging in the kinda-new and very smarmy (IMO) technique of not putting her party affiliation on her print materials. If you aren't proud enough to advertise your party affiliation, then you are a weasel.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 4:06 PM on November 4, 2012


WEASEL PARTY 2016! FERRETING OUT THE VOTES OF ALL TRUE, HARDWORKING, WEDDING-TACKLE-GNAWING AMERICANS!
posted by maudlin at 4:08 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Nobody for President
posted by Golden Eternity at 4:29 PM on November 4, 2012


Here's a crazy statistic from the latest round of 538 simulations:

Romney wins popular vote 21.1%
Romney wins popular vote but loses electoral college 7.3%

That's over a third of the times Romney wins the popular vote.
posted by dfan at 4:35 PM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]




dfan, "Romney wins popular vote but loses electoral college" is a subset of "Romney wins popular vote."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:54 PM on November 4, 2012


Right, they are not additive.
posted by OmieWise at 4:55 PM on November 4, 2012


I think dfan is saying that, according to 538, a third of the time that Romney wins the popular vote, he will lose the electoral college. Which is the case according to the simulations: 7.3 / 21.1.
posted by Bokmakierie at 5:03 PM on November 4, 2012




There are over 16,000 people at the Obama rally in Cincinnati. Fifth Third arena holds 14,000. It's full. The overflow building holds 2,000. It's full. There are hundreds more still outside. The President will speak shortly. Live feed here.
posted by cooker girl at 5:08 PM on November 4, 2012 [9 favorites]




Thanks for the head's up, cooker girl.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:17 PM on November 4, 2012


My friend who is in the overflow building just texted me and said he shook the President's hand!!
posted by cooker girl at 5:19 PM on November 4, 2012


Charles Pierce: For Obama, the Clock's Running in His Own Head Now
posted by homunculus at 5:19 PM on November 4, 2012


Charles Pierce: For Obama, the Clock's Running in His Own Head Now
They cheered wildly for Charlie Crist
Charlie Crist?!
posted by Room 641-A at 5:24 PM on November 4, 2012


Obama has to be exhausted.
posted by futz at 5:26 PM on November 4, 2012


What the hell is going on at this Romney rally?
Michael Barbaro ‏@mikiebarb
"We've got to get out! My daughter is frostbitten," begs mom, asking to leave Romney rally. Staffer replies: "It's not cold enuf for that."

Sabrina Siddiqui ‏@SabrinaSiddiqui
. @JFKucinich is live tweeting more about the frustrated folks wanting to leave Romney rally.

Jackie Kucinich ‏@JFKucinich
People are literally streaming through the gates - Romney still speaking.

Ashley Parker ‏@AshleyRParker
This is a big rally for Romney in PA, but dozens of people -- cold and angry -- are begging to be let out.

Michael Barbaro ‏@mikiebarb
W/ Romney more than an hour late (but now speaking), dozens of people stuck in the cold, begging staffers to leave, use the bathroom...

Michael Barbaro ‏@mikiebarb
Rally in PA just went eerily quiet for 3 mins after a man collapsed in the audience. No music. No speaker. He's. Okay now tho.

MoveOn.org ‏@MoveOn
BREAKING: USA Today reporter says @MittRomney staffers are trapping people at rally in #PA. Won't let them leave.pic.twitter.com/M6svk9qN

Andrew Kaczynski ‏@BuzzFeedAndrew
It looks staffers at the Romney event refused originally let ppl leave, despite their begging.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:28 PM on November 4, 2012 [9 favorites]


Sam Wang notes in his most recent post that Nate Silver's methods are extremely conservative (in the sense of being ready to declare uncertainty), and that Obama's chances of winning might actually be closer to 95%.
posted by JHarris at 5:28 PM on November 4, 2012


(Of course, he has his own prediction which gives 98% as the figure.)
posted by JHarris at 5:29 PM on November 4, 2012


Hecklers are disrupting the speech and getting arrested and hauled off.
posted by cooker girl at 5:30 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


They're doing more than the cameras are showing me. Apparently they're not leaving as asked and then they're resisting and getting taken away. It's happened twice now.
posted by cooker girl at 5:31 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Holy shit, zombieflanders!
posted by Room 641-A at 5:32 PM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


What''s with Romney, Ryan, and their fucking neckties? Are the ties keeping their head attached to their neck? Hiding the solder joints? For some reason seeing Paul Ryan wearing a windbreaker and a necktie just infuriates me.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:40 PM on November 4, 2012


Obama's voice is almost spent.
posted by futz at 5:43 PM on November 4, 2012


ROU_Xenophobe: dfan, "Romney wins popular vote but loses electoral college" is a subset of "Romney wins popular vote."
Yes, it is.
Bokmakierie: I think dfan is saying that, according to 538, a third of the time that Romney wins the popular vote, he will lose the electoral college. Which is the case according to the simulations: 7.3 / 21.1.
Correct.
posted by dfan at 5:45 PM on November 4, 2012


Obama's voice is almost spent.

The funny thing about that is that it is just turning it more into Church. That's very much so a church environment in there.
posted by cashman at 5:46 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


I love Obama best when he stops making a speech and goes to preachin'.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:47 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also, that's from speaking outside in cold ass Concord, NH at 9am.
posted by cashman at 5:47 PM on November 4, 2012


Obama looks like he wants to bust a move.
posted by futz at 5:57 PM on November 4, 2012


I think dfan is saying that, according to 538, a third of the time that Romney wins the popular vote, he will lose the electoral college. Which is the case according to the simulations

What you have to understand is that I'm a bit of a thickie.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:59 PM on November 4, 2012


The lady on the video mentioned that Obama is hopping straight on the plane because he has another event later tonight in Aurora. Everyone campaigning must be so worn out by now (including Romney and his crew).
posted by DynamiteToast at 6:00 PM on November 4, 2012


And Twitter is filled with Obama detractors under-estimating the crowd tonight while at the same time grossly inflating Romney's numbers today.
posted by cooker girl at 6:00 PM on November 4, 2012


From the Esquire piece: If he loses, there will be a powerful movement to render him, and these rallies, as footnotes. If he wins, he will be president again, and it will be a dusty, grinding job for as long as the calendar allows him to do it. At the end, with Stevie Wonder's "Signed, Sealed, Delivered" pouring out of the speakers, he turned from the podium and, just for one second, he did a little dance step. And then you could see the discipline reassert itself again. Ever since he came upon the scene, he has been a candidate who has had to rein himself in, someone who could sing Al Green, but just a line, someone who can dance, in front of an adoring crowd, but just one step, and then gone again. On the press riser, his senior staff was watching him do it, and they all smiled, and the sunset fell across their faces.

This is so well stated.
posted by meese at 6:15 PM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


Just need to retweet the recent Photoshop of Romney's altered stadium apperence
posted by edgeways at 6:18 PM on November 4, 2012


Charlie Crist: Rick Scott's Refusal To Extend Florida Early Voting Is 'Indefensible'
"The only thing that makes any sense as to why this is happening and being done is voter suppression,"

Ever since he came upon the scene, he has been a candidate who has had to rein himself in

Imagine what the unleashed, 2nd-term Barack Obama will be like.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:26 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


What makes you think a 2nd-term Barack Obama will be unleashed?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:05 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


What makes you think a 2nd-term Barack Obama will be unleashed?

Surely the extent to which he will be unleashed depends on the economy, more than anything else? The GOP will go for obstructionism, they have nowhere else to go. That's a less satisfactory tactic if the economy is really starting to feel better and Obama has high approval ratings. It's also possible that feeling the effects of Obamacare might splinter off some poorer Republicans outside the base. Obama, if he wins, gets another chance at building a consensus of the electorate, even if he can't build consensus with the Republicans. That might lead, in two years time, to a productive situation.

This is the most optimistic interpretation, I reckon. Nothing at all to say it's going to go down this way.
posted by howfar at 7:17 PM on November 4, 2012




How did Scott Wang's EV prediction suddenly dip from 318 to 303? the meta margin just shifted from like 2.96% to 2.84%, that's it.
posted by Theta States at 7:17 PM on November 4, 2012


Yeah I tend to think we have honestly seen how he governs, plenty of good, some bad, a lot of good ideas and intentions that are hard to relize, which is preferable to the opposite.
posted by edgeways at 7:17 PM on November 4, 2012


I'm in Florida. Mrs.Eld and I waited 2+ hours to vote. I was late for Brewfest. Much beer was imbibed. Things worked out ok in the end. Rick Scott is still a dick.

/datapoint
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:20 PM on November 4, 2012 [6 favorites]




the meta margin just shifted from like 2.96% to 2.84%, that's it.

Was he predicting an Obama win in North Carolina? Seems unlikely...
posted by howfar at 7:21 PM on November 4, 2012


SweetTeaAndABiscuit: "Sunday Best: Don't Let the GOP blame Sandy"

No, let 'em. Sandy brought home the point - of the *purpose* of government: doing better *together* than we can do by ourselves. And it highlighted what capable disaster relief can be.

In other words, Republicans: it turned a spotlight on the quantity and the quality of the bullshit you're peddling.
posted by notsnot at 7:26 PM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


I wouldn't be surprised if, in the last few years, and especially during this election, Obama has grown to detest his political opponents. I don't say hate -- hate implies a blindness, an intemperance, and inappropriateness of one's reaction. But I think, perhaps, he has glimpsed the soulless, callous, nihilistic powers controlling the Republican party, and he has felt anger. I doubt anything could make him dislike the average American. Even those Americans who scream he is a Muslim socialist out to steal their Medicare, I think he feels deep sympathy and concern for them. But they are not the ones in control of the Republican party, they are not the ones who determined it would be easier to bring Obama's administration down as a flaming wreck rather than attempt govern. And those who did so? Those who took Obama's earnest desire for bipartisanship and did everything but literally spit it back in his face? They deserve his ire, and I wouldn't be surprised if he gives it to them.

Again, I say I wouldn't be surprised. I don't say that I'd bet on it, or even that I really believe it. It just wouldn't surprise me, if this is what we saw through the next four years: an Obama who has been spurned, and who is out for blood.
posted by meese at 7:27 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obama looks like he wants to bust a move.

He did a lil somethin. It was like a revival up in there. So great to see Ohio enthused and fired up for President Obama.
posted by cashman at 7:29 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


an Obama who has been spurned, and who is out for blood.

If it was my last four years in politics I would be out to smack down every motherfucker in the place who dissed me.
posted by Talez at 7:30 PM on November 4, 2012 [5 favorites]


How did Scott Wang's EV prediction suddenly dip from 318 to 303? the meta margin just shifted from like 2.96% to 2.84%, that's it.

@SamWangPhD: NC and FL are right on the edge. Small fluctutations will lead to big jumps. Watch Meta-Margin instead, better-behaved.
posted by DaDaDaDave at 7:33 PM on November 4, 2012


last four years in politics

Obama is 51, I don't think his career will be quite over in 4 years.
posted by howfar at 7:33 PM on November 4, 2012


The Final Push. I'll say again, that sure looks like the America I want to live in.
posted by cashman at 7:36 PM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


No, but it is his last election, his last four years worrying about campaigning for himself.
posted by maryr at 7:36 PM on November 4, 2012


There's an American Crossroads ad airing during tonight's football game that is everything annoying about the Romney campaign. It's a woman in a nice house "watching" the debates then complaining that Obama doesn't have a new plan to help her family out.
posted by drezdn at 7:39 PM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


I have to say I wish Rudy Giuliani would shut the fuck up and go away already.
posted by spitbull at 7:40 PM on November 4, 2012 [6 favorites]


303 is a common number nowadays or Obama's win percentage, it's what my absolutly-not-nate-silver method of pulling it out my ass prediction was 10 days ago , and it shows p a number of places now. Looks like all national polls at he moment run from tie to Obama +3, nothing showing a Romney lead of any amount,
posted by edgeways at 7:42 PM on November 4, 2012


By the way, for those wondering, "Is this really Obama's last race for sure? If he lost this year, might he run again in 2016?", it's happened before. Grover Cleveland won the presidency in 1884, lost to Benjamin Harrison in 1888 despite winning the popular vote, sat out politics for four years, and whipped Harrison in 1892 (which is why he's both the 22nd and 24th president of the US).
posted by dfan at 7:47 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Romney in Iowa: Obama victory is ‘possible’
Speaking to voters in Des Moines, Iowa on Sunday, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney wavered somewhat from his prior, supremely confident public statements, reportedly describing a victory for President Barack Obama as “possible, but not likely.”

The quote was first reported by The Wall Street Journal, which locked its story behind a paywall.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:03 PM on November 4, 2012





The quote was first reported by The Wall Street Journal, which locked its story behind a paywall.


If you can't see the article here, to me, the Romney stuff isn't even the telling part.
"There's a better life out there for us," Mr. Romney declared to a crowd of thousands in Des Moines, Iowa, Sunday. "Our destiny is in the hands of the people who'll be making up this election."
Aside from that, the article says Romney's close aids and advisers in his 6-year quest to become president jointed him. There isn't much left for them to do since his schedule is already set. They have a project to prepare for a presidential transition should he win.

Among his advisers there is a cautious sense of optimism. His advisors think they are running ahead in VA but behind in IA. Then it says
"Mr. Romney summed up the president's re-election prospects Sunday: "It's possible, but not likely."
Says Boston based staffers and policy people were sent to battlegrounds to help with gotv. Another set went to NH to knock on doors and make calls, since there is nothing for them to do in Boston. It mentions how his crowds are larger than they were years ago, and long time advisers looked back at that with fondness. The part I thought was most telling:
In Colorado Springs Saturday, tears threatened Ann Romney's cool composure at a campaign stop. "It has been quite a journey," she said.
posted by cashman at 8:40 PM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


Homunculus: What Are the Gobshites Saying These Days?
I mean, wowser, Rich (Ol' Sparkle Pants) Lowry and The Magic Dolphin Lady, together at last.
Hah! I don't read Charles Pierce on a regular basis, but it's awesome that he hasn't forgotten Noonan's preposterous Elian Gonzales column from 2000.
posted by Bokmakierie at 8:44 PM on November 4, 2012






Room 641-A: "Speaking to voters in Des Moines, Iowa on Sunday, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney wavered somewhat from his prior, supremely confident public statements, reportedly describing a victory for President Barack Obama as “possible, but not likely.” "

I can't wait until 2016, when Nate Silver will have perfected an election model that predicts outcomes not by analyzing polls, but by analyzing the amount of bluster and overconfidence in stump speeches.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:01 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


dfan: By the way, for those wondering, "Is this really Obama's last race for sure? If he lost this year, might he run again in 2016?", it's happened before.

True, but this was in a time well before presidential term limits. If Obama were to lose on Tuesday, a run in 2016 or later would be hampered by him being eligible to serve only one additional term, conferring him instant lame-duck status in the eyes of many. Probably one reason why we didn't see Ford, Carter, or Bush Sr. making another run. (Well, maybe not Jimmy in '84.)

There's also the whole stigma of presidential-election loserdom which lately sticks quite tightly to the unsuccessful candidate. Not since Nixon's '68 win has a previously-defeated nominee been given a second chance by his party. That may have a lot to do with the expanded role of the primary system in candidate selection. Remember that multiple losers like Stevenson (1952, 1956), Dewey (1944, 1948), and Bryan (1896, 1900, 1908!) were chosen by smoke-filled convention halls, so their appeal to the party machine was paramount. (Stevenson did not contest the Democratic primaries in '52 but did so in '56; these were in a limited number of states, and chose fewer delegates than the current marathon process.)
posted by hangashore at 9:04 PM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Bush Sr. seems like he would have been an unlikely re-run in '96 anyway - aside from the fact that Clinton would have soundly out-campaigned him a second time, I remember noticing as a 12 year old that the President seemed awfully tired and kind of relieved looking when he lost. I've actually had moments this election cycle (1st debate much?) when I've worried that Obama had a similar look.
posted by maryr at 9:12 PM on November 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


RCP finally gets on board, moves Virginia to blue on the no-tossup map, which tallies to 303 Obama EVs.
posted by Theta States at 9:18 PM on November 4, 2012 [5 favorites]


@thinkprogress - Know your rights before you vote! PLS RETWEET pic.twitter.com/wOOfyFVx

A color-rich graph featuring:
    At what local time do polls close in your state? Which states have early voting? Which states have voter id laws in place this year? Which states outlaw felon voting?
posted by cashman at 9:38 PM on November 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


Ryan Says Obama Policies Threaten ‘Judeo-Christian’ Values

The remarks came in a conference call with evangelical Christians, sandwiched between public rallies in which he often spoke of the Romney-Ryan ticket’s promise to bridge partisan divides if elected.

...

“It’s a dangerous path,” Mr. Ryan said, describing Mr. Obama’s policies. “It’s a path that grows government, restricts freedom and liberty and compromises those values, those Judeo-Christian, Western civilization values that made us such a great and exceptional nation in the first place.’’


posted by futz at 2:44 AM on November 5, 2012


> “It’s a path that ... compromises those values, those Judeo-Christian, Western civilization values that made us ... ’’

... spread Walmart across India.
posted by de at 3:43 AM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


The Intrade electoral map is starting to converge on the same map as everyone else, and the battleground state likelihoods are all becoming more certain, too. They have Obama's chance of victory at 68%, up 2.2% just today.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:55 AM on November 5, 2012


My wife said last night, "hey that's you in the XKCD comic".
posted by octothorpe at 4:05 AM on November 5, 2012 [8 favorites]




I'll be happy with any way to 270 for Obama, but I have to admit that I really want him to take Florida. That shit they're pulling down there is crazy, and 2000 still smarts.

Seriously, has anyone read any attempts to provide a legitimate reason for the kinds of disenfranchisement we see from the GOP, that isn't based on the specious claim of voter fraud?
posted by OmieWise at 5:20 AM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]


Seriously, has anyone read any attempts to provide a legitimate reason for the kinds of disenfranchisement we see from the GOP, that isn't based on the specious claim of voter fraud?

Well, you see, the wrong people are voting and they're voting the wrong way.
posted by gerryblog at 5:24 AM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]


Ryan Says Obama Policies Threaten ‘Judeo-Christian’ Values

Yeah, I'm honestly going to hit something
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:34 AM on November 5, 2012 [6 favorites]


eriously, has anyone read any attempts to provide a legitimate reason for the kinds of disenfranchisement we see from the GOP, that isn't based on the specious claim of voter fraud?
The reasons I usually see them give have to do with it being an undue burden on the local government to extend early voting hours etc.
posted by dfan at 5:35 AM on November 5, 2012


Syria's at it again - car bomb. That ought to give Romney somethng to talk about all day.
posted by de at 5:37 AM on November 5, 2012


Florida is trying to ration votes by forcing people to wait in line. This is inefficient and does not truly test just how much people really want to vote. It's entirely too random. In addition, some people who really only deserve 3/5 of a vote are going to swagger in there after a long wait and grab a full 5/5 of a vote out of greed and fear that they won't get another chance.

Florida should adhere more closely to canonical Econ 101 principles and raise the price of voting until the demand for votes decreases as God and the invisible hand intended. Sure, the price of voting might get quite high, but if someone REALLY wants to vote, they'll pull together the money and make it happen. If they can't get the money, then voting wasn't sufficiently important to them, was it?
posted by maudlin at 5:52 AM on November 5, 2012 [21 favorites]


Romney declines to participate in Presidential Youth Debate:
In June both President Obama and Gov. Romney were invited in the hope they would both take this opportunity to address millions of young people about the issues that are most important to them. Unfortunately, despite our efforts over a four-month period, Gov. Romney declined participation. He is the first and only candidate in our 16-year history to decide not to answer the questions young Americans chose as most important through the Presidential Youth Debate. With Millennials being the nation’s largest potential voting bloc, we’re still very much hoping Gov. Romney might change his mind and provide his responses via video or even as text anytime before Nov. 6th, so young Americans can cast an even more informed ballot in the Election
my bold

There are a lot of reasons why I hope Romney, the stealth candidate, loses but chief among them is I would hate for this to become a precedent: that candidates running for office can refuse to answer questions and don't have to release their tax history.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:57 AM on November 5, 2012 [8 favorites]




My husband and I voted in Florida on Wednesday and it was certainly different than any other election we've early voted in. The parking lot at the library was full and there's no overflow parking available anywhere around it, so people just circled around waiting for anyone to pull out so they could jap that available space. The line was outside the door and our wait was about 45 minutes.

Part of the issue is that our ballot is 4 pages long, with 11 amendments to the state constitution. The Supervisor of Elections has been all over the news and radio stations begging people to research the amendments and local candidates before they vote, because it's taking people an estimated 30 minutes just to read and try to understand the amendments if they haven't seen them before. He gave a rundown on what exactly each amendment meant and how much it's estimated to cost taxpayers last week on the local morning NPR show. He also said to take crib sheets with you so you know which people/amendments you're voting for.

This is the first time we've had to show ID to vote, so we took our driver's licenses, voter ID cards and bills with our names and addresses on them. They swiped our driver's licenses with a card reader, then we waited until they printed a ballot and called our name and gave it to us individually. I couldn't see any name or other type of identification on them, but they were printed individually for each person.

My aunt is a poll worker in Tampa and she said it's been insane all day, every day that she was there. And yeah, Rick Scott is a slimy slimy motherfucker.
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:06 AM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


With early voting being pushed so hard by both campaigns, is it possible Tuesday might run more smoothly since so many people have already voted?

This is probably a really dumbly optimistic question.
posted by imabanana at 6:09 AM on November 5, 2012




Lining up to vote in Ohio and Florida

In Ohio, my parents voted during the judicially mandated re-opening of early voting this past weekend. In previous elections, their early voting site was at a closed Walmart, providing plenty of space for people to wait inside. This year the site was at the much smaller Board of Elections building itself, which resulted in them and hundreds of others waiting in line for about an hour outside in the rain. They said that despite the conditions no one left before they voted.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:15 AM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]




Ryan Says Obama Policies Threaten ‘Judeo-Christian’ Values

I seriously think that conservatives who make this argument are from another planet. Without fail, they go from this premise to a conclusion that is magnitudes less Christ-like than what their heathen Democratic opponent is offering. 'Cause, you know, Jesus would be totally against helping the sick, poor, elderly and disadvantaged. God didn't really mean it when He said, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’”

If they truly believe in Judeo-Christian values, they're looking at a very warm eternity, I think.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:20 AM on November 5, 2012 [6 favorites]


Ballots in question for 1,000 registered voters at Warren Wilson College, a liberal college in NC The first Republican majority in the history of the N.C. General Assembly drew the new district lines as part of the once-a-decade redistricting process, and the campus was divided into two separate districts.
Parker said her department sent out a letter today, Nov. 2, to all 1,000 voters registered at 701 Warren Wilson Road informing them of the change.

Meanwhile, residents registered at the address wishing to vote early are being asked by poll workers which side of Warren Wilson Road they live on, and are being forced to fill out provisional ballots, according to Parker. After the unofficial election results are tallied Nov. 6, the department will then determine if the provisional ballots filled out by those living at Warren Wilson corresponded to the correct district. If so, they would be included in the official tally when it's certified a week later, she says.

"Until we get a good address on them, and verify that address, they've got to vote provisionally," says Parker.[snip]

"The fact that students received this information four days before the election is incredibly suspicious, as is the fact that this issue did not come up in the primary," says Warren Wilson Professor Ben Feinberg, who first became aware of the issue after hearing from students in a Nov. 2 class who were "confused and upset" about it.
I know the redistricting has caused no end of confusion. My town, Garner (pop.20,000) used to be one congressional district now it is a weird zig-zig shape dividing us in two. A couple of weeks ago I tried using The News & Observer personalized voting guide (you type in your address and you get the run down on all the candidates) and the site got my district wrong.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:21 AM on November 5, 2012


I'm royally pissed at the efforts to disenfranchise minority voters, OmieWise. I'm hoping other Floridians respond as I plan to, and vote all the Republicans right off the map.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

I am totally committed to voting tomorrow, despite the very real possibility of waiting for hours out in the sun. I'm awaiting test results* to confirm what they think must be Lupus, and sun exposure is a major trigger for me.

I figure I'll pack up a cooler, slather on the sunblock, take a hat AND an umbrella, and just hope for the best tomorrow.

Please, if there are any other Mefites from Florida reading this thread, GET OUT AND VOTE!

*12 blood tests last month alone. Yay, needles are so much fun. /hamburger
posted by misha at 6:26 AM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]


If Romney wins, you are never going to convince me it was legitimately.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:27 AM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]


If Romney wins, you are never going to convince me it was legitimately.

Ironically, I'm sure there are more Republicans saying the opposite.
posted by DynamiteToast at 6:30 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


No one in America should have to wait 7 hours to vote:
elected officials are making it harder for American citizens to vote and to have their votes counted. And in each instance, the partisan restrictions are designed to impact the elderly, and the poor, and students. The Constitution gives power to the states to handle elections. But what we are seeing is one party's systemic abuse of that power to disenfranchise likely voters of another party. Don't believe me? Let's go to the videotape.

In Pennsylvania, House Majority Leader Mike Turzai was caught on tape this summer boasting about his colleagues' success: "... First pro-life legislation -- abortion facility regulations -- in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done." In Ohio, the Republican Party chairman of Franklin County, which includes Columbus, was even more blunt. Doug Preisse said, "I guess I really actually feel we shouldn't contort the voting process to accommodate the urban -- read African-American -- voter turnout machine."

There is no hidden agenda here. The strategy and tactics are as far out in the open as those voters standing in line for hours waiting for their turn to vote.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:30 AM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


Ironically, I'm sure there are more Republicans saying the opposite.

Well, except I live on Earth.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:31 AM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


After polls close, Ohio will begin the evening by releasing the results of absentee ballots it received before election day, Husted said, at around 8:30 p.m.
Though those absentee votes may imply the election is going one way, those results could be completely turned around over the next few hours as results from in-person voting come in. The secretary of state’s office will release results from big counties every 15 minutes, medium-size counties every 30 minutes and small counties every hour.

If the election is close, America will have to wait 10 more days for the final results. That’s because Ohio, unlike most other states, has a law that stipulates that the secretary of state must wait 10 days before counting provisional ballots and late-arriving absentee ballots. All absentee ballots must be postmarked by Nov. 5 to count.

An automatic recount can’t happen until Nov. 27, Husted said. An automatic recount is triggered in Ohio when the result margin is less than 0.25%, or about 14,000 votes in an election in which 5.6 million votes are cast (5.7 million Ohioans voted in 2008).
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:32 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Election 2012: Voting Laws Roundup
In the past two years, states across the country passed a wave of laws that could make it harder to vote. The Brennan Center chronicled these laws in our report, Voting Law Changes in 2012. Overall, 25 laws and 2 executive actions passed in 19 states since the beginning of 2011.

But then voting rights advocates fought back.

Citizens rejected these laws at the polls, nearly a dozen courts overturned or weakened restrictive measures, and the Department of Justice blocked others. Below you will find a regularly-updated, comprehensive roundup of where laws were introduced, where they passed, where they were blocked or blunted, and where they are in effect for the 2012 election. (Click maps for larger view).
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:47 AM on November 5, 2012


Carl Woodward opines on The End of the Tea Party
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:53 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


gerryblog posted a link to a great interactive EV map in the new election day MeTa.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:55 AM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]


what they think must be Lupus, and sun exposure is a major trigger for me.

I figure I'll pack up a cooler, slather on the sunblock, take a hat AND an umbrella, and just hope for the best tomorrow.


Vote, but be safe!

elected officials are making it harder for American citizens to vote and to have their votes counted.

&

In the past two years, states across the country passed a wave of laws that could make it harder to vote.

As far as I'm aware, these aren't just "elected officials," or "states" passing these laws and regulations, they are "REPUBLICAN elected officials" and "REPUBLICAN dominated state legislatures." Are there examples of Democratic legislatures passing these kinds of laws these days?
posted by OmieWise at 7:04 AM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


That jackass Husted (Ohio secretary of suppression) is on MSNBC right now.
posted by cashman at 7:06 AM on November 5, 2012


Carl Woodward opines on The End of the Tea Party

Ah, yes, the "Mitt was insufficiently conservative" argument. That argument seems even less in touch with actual, you know, reality than does the "biased polls" argument. If "centrist" Mitt can't do better why would a more conservative candidate? Wasn't that Buchanan's stance all along? Where did his candidacy go?
posted by OmieWise at 7:09 AM on November 5, 2012


538 has a new blog post up Nov. 4: Did Hurricane Sandy Blow Romney Off Course?
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:10 AM on November 5, 2012


Carl Woodward opines on The End of the Tea Party

You know I haven't actually read any of Woodward's stuff until now, so I went and read through a few back articles of his and... and I'm not really saying I could write better, but I was pretty disappointed in it, not the content per se, just the sloppy mechanics of it.
posted by edgeways at 7:10 AM on November 5, 2012


The Looming GOP Civil War: “If I hear anybody say it was because Romney wasn’t conservative enough I’m going to go nuts,” said Graham. “We’re not losing 95 percent of African-Americans and two-thirds of Hispanics and voters under 30 because we’re not being hard-ass enough.”
posted by OmieWise at 7:22 AM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


I think a Romney defeat might cause the Republican leadership to seek a return to the smoke-filled-room style of candidate selection. Romney got the nomination mostly because no one else looked rational enough (Remember Palenty? Gingrich? Remember oh god Cain*? As John Oliver reminds us from time to time, he was at one point the front runner. Remember Trump?)

*
:|

:|

:|

:)

:)

:D

posted by JHarris at 7:25 AM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


It makes no difference who wins to the hard right. Either outcome will be a vindication for them.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:32 AM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


That's true, but that sense of vindication makes a huge amount of difference to the rest of the GOP, since how much credence it is given has the potential to drive the direction of the party.
posted by OmieWise at 7:35 AM on November 5, 2012


I'm listening to this weeks This American Life right now, it's really interesting. All about the current divide in our nation between Republicans and Democrats.
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:36 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Nina Turner is on MSNBC right now. I'm guessing she's about to say some awesome things. They are priming her with clips of Husted talking.
posted by cashman at 7:41 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Careful with that interactive thing gerryblog posted in the MeTa thread. We are all prone to overthinking here, and it led me to do the following:

ME: OK, computer, let’s go with the polls and assume Romney wins Florida and North Carolina. How’s Obama looking?

COMPUTER: Looking good!

ME: Good, good ... Well, hey, Virginia is looking more like a tossup than the others, what if Romney takes that. How’s Obama doing?

COMPUTER: Still solid.

ME: All right ... Hey, let’s try this. Let’s assume those crazy right-wing pundits are right. Let’s say, just hypothetically, that Romney takes Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, AND OHIO. Is there any way Obama could still win?

COMPUTER: Well ... yes ...

ME: Really?

COMPUTER: He’d have to take all of the other swing states. He’s leading in the polls in all of those, so that’s definitely possible, but he’d need Colorado, Iowa, Nevada, Wisconsin, New Hampshire –

ME: NEW HAMPSHIRE?! NO ONE CAN PREDICT NEW HAMPSHIRE! THEY’RE MADMEN THERE, I TELL YOU, MADMEN, THEY COULD DO ANYTHING, HOW COULD THE FATE OF OUR NATION BE IN THE HANDS OF NEW HAMPSHIRE, WE’RE ALL DOOMED, ALL OF US, DOOOOOOOMED!!!!

...

COMPUTER: You done?

ME: Yeah, I’m good now.

COMPUTER: Good.

ME: So, think Florida might actually be in play?

COMPUTER: I quit.
posted by kyrademon at 7:45 AM on November 5, 2012 [13 favorites]


cashman, I was just about to post the same thing about Nina Turner. I've not heard her until this past weekend, but she's just fantastic.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:46 AM on November 5, 2012


I love the idea that everything Christie does is a screwed-up bid to win the Boss's love.

I like to imagine that he's blasting "Working On A Dream."
posted by octobersurprise at 7:47 AM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


I think a Romney defeat might cause the Republican leadership to seek a return to the smoke-filled-room style of candidate selection.

Was there any other candidate for nomination that was more electable than Romney? The Republican's problems can't be fixed by finding better candidates, they need to find a better ideology.
posted by octothorpe at 7:55 AM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


I figure I'll pack up a cooler, slather on the sunblock, take a hat AND an umbrella, and just hope for the best tomorrow.

Slowly, a cheer rises from the crowd, growing louder and louder: "misha! misha! misha!..."
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:02 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Careful with that interactive thing gerryblog posted in the MeTa thread. We are all prone to overthinking here, and it led me to do the following:

ME: OK, computer, let’s go with the polls and assume Romney wins Florida and North Carolina. How’s Obama looking?

I gave Romney North Carolina and there are 238 ways he could lose. He's got 238 problems but NC ain't one.
posted by ersatz at 8:05 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


No, apparently I clicked the Dem button because I can't even click.
posted by ersatz at 8:06 AM on November 5, 2012


I've waffled back and forth on what the GOP will do if they lose, but the more I think about it, I think a moderate/hard right split is coming whether they like it or not. In case you missed it, let me call attention to this outstanding comment about how geography negatively impacts the possibility of a lefty takeover of the Democrats.

If you turn Hollywood Upstairs Medical College's logic on its head, I think it portends doom for the GOP as we know it. A recent regional breakdown for Obama vs. Romney was something like Northeast: O+15, Midwest: O+8, West: O+13, South: R+13. There's been talk on the left for many years about the GOP becoming a Southern regional party, and though Romney's managed to make this a race with the demographics as they are, I do not think that will be an option in 2016. For one thing, the Democrats aren't going to run a guy named Barack Hussein Obama. The GOP will demonize whoever the Dems run, but you have to admit that Obama's background, ethnicity, etc. are a motivating factor for much of Romney's support in this election. I also think that four years of increasing minority population in many swing states and older white voters... uh... moving on to the Great Big Tea Party Rally In The Sky... is going to mean they can't just run a brown person with Republican ideas -- they'll have to run someone with ideas that appeal to brown people, wimmens, and even white dudes like myself.

It's only this urgent demographic problem that could, I think, create the impetus for the GOP to change. Prominent Republicans like Bruce Bartlett and David Frum have been sounding the alarm about these issues for years, and I always thought they were pissing into the wind, but I think the GOP will do what it needs to survive, and I think in one or two more election cycles, they might be at the point where they can begin to turn their back on the nativist, racist, Southern base and start running candidates that have mainstream appeal above the Mason-Dixon line.

As a Democrat, I of course hope they continue to fade into irrelevance, so that a true lefty-progressive party can fill the void instead, but if I were a GOP voter, I'd start to look for ways to jump off the Tea Party Express before it reaches Crazy Town.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:10 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, and here's my much shorter prediction for if Obama loses: rending of garments, bloody blog wars, and long lines at the US-Canada border.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:14 AM on November 5, 2012


tonycpsu: but if I were a GOP voter, I'd start to look for ways to jump off the Tea Party Express before it reaches Crazy Town.

From where I sit, it seems that opportunity went out the window before the Tea Party was even a 'thing.'
posted by syzygy at 8:14 AM on November 5, 2012


Yeah, I should have said "before the whole party reaches Crazy Town." There are still some non-crazy Republicans out there who simply used the Tea Party brand as a convenient marketing appeal. Those guys have to see the writing on the wall in the next election cycle, don't they?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:17 AM on November 5, 2012


kyrademon, there there. You should blow off a little steam with Celery Man.

(Why can't we have computers do that kind of thing, do what we tell them to? "Siri! Bring up an interactive election chart for the 2012 election!" "[BEEP] Fuck off J Harris. I have better things to do, flesh bag.")
posted by JHarris at 8:18 AM on November 5, 2012


Romney’s Douchebag Problem
One of the major obstacles that Mitt Romney faces in his campaign for the presidency is the fact that a great number of Americans regard him as a total douchebag.

...it’s not that douchebags don’t care what other people think of them—they care a lot—it’s that they overestimate their ability to charm, with confidence based not on sympathetic intuition, nor even on perceptive analysis, but on received technique. A middle-class kid who asserts his participation in the discourse community of the urban lumpenproletariat based on his attentive listening to Chief Keef raps is a douchebag. A dude who professes understanding of ostensibly peculiarly female psychology based on his attentive reading of Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus is a douchebag. And so forth.

...calling Mitt Romney a douchebag is not—or, okay, is not just — a coarse ad hominem attack. It’s also a legitimate articulation of opposing values.
Fair warning: this blog post is longer than both your arms stitched together end-to-end.
posted by Clay201 at 8:19 AM on November 5, 2012


looking back I'd say there was a brief, very brief, period of time at the start when the Tea Party was not consumed by political extremists, where I may have disagreed with them but at least could see the light of day of their arguments. That rapidly got overwhelmed and taken over, co-opted by lots of big money and extremism. The wealthy using the less wealthy as pawns in a casually brutal game over getting more wealthy.
posted by edgeways at 8:20 AM on November 5, 2012



Oh, and here's my much shorter prediction for if Obama loses: rending of garments, bloody blog wars, and long lines at the US-Canada border.

Nah, we said we'd do that in '04 too, and we didn't, and we won't do it this time either. The left doesn't follow through on ultimatums the way the right does.
posted by headnsouth at 8:30 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


tonycpsu: my much shorter prediction for if Obama loses: ... long lines at the US-Canada border

I consider myself supremely lucky, on this front. I moved from Texas to Austria in 2000, before W was elected. At the time, I called myself a Republican.

My politics shifted left over the past 12 years, and I don't see myself ever returning to live in Texas. Austin, maybe, if I absolutely had to. But if I don't have to (and there's really no compelling reason that I would), I'm staying put.
posted by syzygy at 8:40 AM on November 5, 2012


The Republican's problems can't be fixed by finding better candidates, they need to find a better ideology.

I think an eloquent bona-fide Christian would kick some Democrat ass. The far right will buy back in. Next time around the money guys just have to remember to throw a bone to the wackos.
posted by fleacircus at 8:47 AM on November 5, 2012


If Romney wins, I think there will quite few Republican party activists who will draw the lesson that what they need to do is work harder at suppressing the vote.
posted by benito.strauss at 8:51 AM on November 5, 2012


I think an eloquent bona-fide Christian would kick some Democrat ass.

Wasn't that what Huckabee was supposed to be?
posted by Neneh at 8:54 AM on November 5, 2012


I think an eloquent bona-fide Christian would kick some Democrat ass.

I don't know, the demographics just keep moving away from the Republicans and making it that much harder for them to get broad national support. Every year the percentage of angry white guys in the population gets smaller.
posted by octothorpe at 8:54 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Drudge (Which currently features a hilariously blurry photo of Obama, under the moon...) knows how to report polls!
RASMUSSEN: R 49% O 48%

CNN: TIED [WITH D+11]...

Romney winning independents 59%-35%...

PEW: O 48% R 45% [WITH D+6]...

FL: R 52% O 47%...

MI: R 47% O 46%...

VA: R 50% O 48%...

OH: O 50% R 49%...
Thank goodness they dug all the best outliers!
posted by Theta States at 9:01 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think an eloquent bona-fide Christian would kick some Democrat ass.

I think it's pretty tough to be that and also a politician on the national stage...the compromises and sell-outs are pretty stark.

I think it's really strange that Gallup is still not reporting numbers and has not updated their blog since Wednesday with any information about that.
posted by OmieWise at 9:01 AM on November 5, 2012




Thank goodness they dug all the best outliers!

I was looking for information related to the election, and have brushed across a few republican sites, and they all (5) remain convinced that all the polling is wrong, skewed toward democrats. They think the early voting numbers/enthusiasm is in their favor, and they think Romney is going to win for sure.

I mean, you're not going to take the time to write up a post on your right-leaning blog that says "6 reasons Romney is going to lose tomorrow" but you would think more of them would be focused on it being close and what possibilities there are. But no, they are earnestly trying to convince their people that it is going to be all in Romney's favor tomorrow, polls be damned.

All I can say is, there is going to be a rude awakening tomorrow. Either it's them and they look back and realize they were steady deluding themselves along the way ignoring poll after poll, sign after sign, post after post showing Obama in the lead, or all the polling was wrong or voter suppression worked enough in enough places that Romney not only won, but won handily.

Tomorrow is going to be a hell of a day.
posted by cashman at 9:08 AM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


Will there be a new election post tomorrow? Will there? Will there?
I'm wondering which streaming source should I go for election coverage. I watched CNN in 2008 and yeah not sure if I can handle another evening of Wolf Blitzer playing Tron.
posted by Theta States at 9:11 AM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


roomthreeseventeen: "Obama responds to 10-year old girl with two dads"

Jeez, what a transparently cynical ploy to pander to the 10 year-old vote.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:12 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think an eloquent bona-fide Christian would kick some Democrat ass.

Bona-fide Christian? (gonna have to throw in "white" there as well) You mean a feed the poor, take care of the least fortunate, judge not least you be judged, render unto Caesar what is Caeser's, type Christian, a Liberation theologists? or some other type of Christian? Because hell you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a dozen Christians. Being Christian isn't the solution or problem, it's being a decent human being.
posted by edgeways at 9:13 AM on November 5, 2012 [7 favorites]


Yeah, does anyone know if PBS (or anyone non-CNN) will be streaming their coverage tomorrow? I haz no cable and I invited a bunch of people over to watch and this might not have been wise without a plan
posted by saturday_morning at 9:13 AM on November 5, 2012


Will there be a new election thread? Because this thread is KILLING my phone.
posted by jadepearl at 9:16 AM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


I think an eloquent bona-fide Christian would kick some Democrat ass.

I think Obama's pretty damn eloquent, and he's a Democrat, so...
posted by headnsouth at 9:16 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Jeez, what a transparently cynical ploy to pander to the 10 year-old vote.

The kid will be 18 in 2020 when Michelle is running. #12dimensionalchess
posted by saturday_morning at 9:17 AM on November 5, 2012 [6 favorites]


tonycpsu: "I predict that this (via) will make Charlie Pierce's next "Things in Politico that Make Me Want To Guzzle Antifreeze" post "

Easiest. Prediction. Ever.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:22 AM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


Will there be a new election thread? Because this thread is KILLING my phone.

Be the change you want to see in the Metafilter
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:23 AM on November 5, 2012 [6 favorites]


Anyone who wants further confirmation of how diseased our media is needs to watch this clip of Morning Joe on MSNBC today in which Joe Scarborough basically threw a temper tantrum because they were doing a segment on the early voting problems in Florida (a state Joe Scar represented in Congress, albeit briefly.) He literally started yelling out BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI over Mika Brzezinski's report on the long lines and other problems at the polls yesterday.

I guess ol' Joe recognized that accurate reporting of a story in which voters were being disenfranchised was bad for his team, so he went with the three year-old tactic of screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU NYAH NYAH LALALALA", trying to equate people being denied the right to vote to the made-up scandal about the administration's handling of the Benghazi attacks.

And this is on the "liberal" cable TV network.

Do your worst, Mayans.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:35 AM on November 5, 2012 [7 favorites]




Jeez, what a transparently cynical ploy to pander to the 10 year-old vote.

POLL: Obama Leads Among Small Children Who Can't Vote
posted by homunculus at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2012


Will there be a new election thread?

I'm constitutionally disinclined toward predicting the future, but I wouldn't be surprised. Some discussion in Metatalk.
posted by cortex at 9:43 AM on November 5, 2012


I predict that you will, in fact, not be surprised.
posted by OmieWise at 9:46 AM on November 5, 2012


Make that cheddar yall.
posted by cashman at 9:50 AM on November 5, 2012


“If I hear anybody say it was because Romney wasn’t conservative enough I’m going to go nuts,” said [SC Sen. Lindsey] Graham. “We’re not losing 95 percent of African-Americans and two-thirds of Hispanics and voters under 30 because we’re not being hard-ass enough.”
Graham's gonna go nuts, then. The day before Politico quoted him, "If Romney loses, will SC GOP say ‘I told you so?’" was a headline at The State. David Woodard, a Clemson University professor, GOP pollster, and adviser to Sen. Graham's fellow Republican Senator, Jim DeMint, said
"If Romney loses, it’s proof positive that (South Carolina) did have a better understanding (in the state’s January primary, which Romney lost) that the country needed a more conservative leader than what was offered ..."

“There’ll be a lot of finger-pointing and soul-searching if Romney loses to Obama, and then (Republicans) will be looking to identify true conservative candidates to lead the party,” Woodard predicts.

“Get ready,” he adds, “because they’ll be talking about Jim DeMint. They’re going to be looking for true conservatives, and there are only a handful of them.”
Woodard's last sentence is as good a summary of the Tea Party attitude as I've seen: There are only a handful of "true conservatives" and Republicans lose when they don't appeal to that handful.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:51 AM on November 5, 2012


this clip of Morning Joe on MSNBC today in which Joe Scarborough basically threw a temper tantrum

He's actually explicitly saying that people being unable to vote is not worth being reported. What a piece of shit. I'm sorry I ever said he was better the Sean Hannity.

I can handle all kinds of debate coming from different points of view on all kinds of issues. But stopping people from voting? There's just no compromise permitted there. And it's mostly bully style tactics — they won't adhere to any rules. The only punishments given out are after-the-fact, and no-one's ever had their electoral victory revoked. Most of the bully stories that end well are those where the bullied show they are willing to hit back just as hard as they are hit.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:52 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Tea Party Group Blocks Florida Voters, Stops Water Handouts at Polls.

Fromm the article:

Kelley is putting herself at risk by filing the challenges. If any of the challenges are determined to be frivolous, then Kelley could be charged with a first degree misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in prison, for each bogus challenge.

I hope she pushes this and ends up as a guest of the state. For a long time.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 9:55 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obama erased Romney's lead in the gallup poll that is about to be released.

Gallup editor-in-chief Frank Newport tells Bloomberg Businessweek that the release of Monday’s tracking poll, set for 1 p.m., will show Mitt Romney leading President Obama 49 percent to 48 percent among likely voters nationally. This is the first tracking poll released since Hurricane Sandy and notable for the strong movement to Obama. The last Gallup poll on Oct. 29 showed Romney up by 5 points–51 percent to 46 percent. Romney’s one-point lead is within the margin of error and, statistically speaking, amounts to a tie. “It’s tied today at 1 o’clock,” Newport said by phone Monday morning.
posted by cashman at 9:58 AM on November 5, 2012


I'm glad to see the Gallup result for any reason, just 'cause it makes me feel good, but it seems just as likely to be due to Gallup trying to get their results to line up around the current national polling average as any actual change. Unless they specifically say they haven't tweaked their likely voter model at all.
posted by OmieWise at 10:08 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Will there be a new election thread? Because this thread is KILLING my phone.

oh god i think by about 3 or 4pm tomorrow your phone isn't gonna be all that happy either with the new thread
posted by ninjew at 10:17 AM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]






Is this the new election thread?

Nope.
posted by cashman at 10:27 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


I just discovered that if you google "where do i vote" it brings up a text box that you can put your address in, and then it will show you your polling place as well as the items on your ballot. Pretty slick!
posted by Elementary Penguin at 10:28 AM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


Gallup trend chart, with today's gallup poll (likely voters) numbers now included as well as registered voters (Obama +3).
posted by cashman at 10:34 AM on November 5, 2012


Yeah, I saw that the other day - Google is pretty awesome that way, good for them. Even if you only put in your zip, it'll give you lots of info – it gave me enough to make sure that my voter registration, which was technically 45 minutes late (thank you librarian, you are awesome!) actually when through.
posted by koeselitz at 10:34 AM on November 5, 2012


Is this the new election thread?

Nope.


Hah, on reflection I probably could have posted it a scooch later in the evening/wee hours as a de facto open thread, but I'm not one for tangential-posts-masquerading-as-general-discussion posts. (Plus, people wouldn't have the time or attention span to read through all those great, lengthy articles tomorrow, so all the better to get them out front the day before.)
posted by Rhaomi at 10:39 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, over at 270towin.com:
Introducing Battleground 270. where you can adjust the probability that Obama or Romney will win each battleground state to see how it impacts the likely range of outcomes for the election.
It's the Nate Silver home edition!
posted by Elementary Penguin at 10:42 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's a race to the bottom between Joe Scarborough and Chunky Toad—I mean Chuck Todd—for me. I did see this retweeted by Mika Brzezinski this morning and it made me chuckle:
@morningmika #morningjoe You deserve the Composer Award, its amazing that you haven't laid loud mouth @joenbc out, with one punch.— Sandra Benson (@SupaSAN3) November 5, 2012
posted by ob1quixote at 10:52 AM on November 5, 2012


I don't think we should treat Mika like she's an innocent bystander here, either. The odd couple pairing makes for entertaining television, but participating in that show with Scarborough gives him unearned credibility. I get that she needs to put food on the table, but she is part of the problem in my book.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:05 AM on November 5, 2012


Can anybody here read Dutch?

Mitt Romney avoided 80 million euro in dividend taxes using a route thru the Netherlands


Here's a translation: Romney Avoids $100 Million in Dividend Taxes via Foreign Route
posted by homunculus at 11:12 AM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm going to make my prediction Obama 347 EVs to Romney 191. Obama will win NC, Virginia and Florida which Larry Sabato has as Lean-R at the moment. Obama will get >50% and outperform most of the final polls. The polls will be found to have under-represented women, Latinos and African Americans. There may even be a surprise in Texas, Arizona or some other likely R-State where turnout lets Democrats over perform significantly and falls off for Republicans who are expecting to lose.
posted by humanfont at 11:12 AM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


humanfont: there is a metatalk thread for predictions in case you missed it.
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:21 AM on November 5, 2012


tonycpsu: I don't think we should treat Mika like she's an innocent bystander here, either. The odd couple pairing makes for entertaining television, but participating in that show with Scarborough gives him unearned credibility. I get that she needs to put food on the table, but she is part of the problem in my book.
I've been watching a lot more Morning Joe than I normally would since I became obsessed with the election after the conventions. I can't put my finger on it precisely, but at some point Joe went from being a perfectly reasonable conservative who thought Romney wasn't the best choice and that Obama was likely to win to being a mad-dog rabid Romney supporter who never met a Frank Luntz talking point he didn't like. I'm not sure what changed.
posted by ob1quixote at 11:40 AM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


The Devastating Bain Ad That Could "Kill" Romney in Ohio

"Stage" has been nothing short of a home run for Priorities. Ace Metrix, a TV analytics company, rated it the most effective campaign spot of the 2012 election season.

posted by Golden Eternity at 11:42 AM on November 5, 2012 [9 favorites]


That's a great ad.
posted by OmieWise at 11:45 AM on November 5, 2012


ob1quixote: "I can't put my finger on it precisely, but at some point Joe went from being a perfectly reasonable conservative who thought Romney wasn't the best choice and that Obama was likely to win to being a mad-dog rabid Romney supporter who never met a Frank Luntz talking point he didn't like. I'm not sure what changed."

Morning Joe got his marching orders. Democrats fall in love; Republicans fall in line.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:56 AM on November 5, 2012 [7 favorites]




And don't forget, Joe also probably got his check. Republicans pay people good money to talk shit. Oh, I'm sure it's in speaking fees or a think tank "fellowship" or some other deniable form. But Scarborough has always been a half-witted shill, Sean Hannity of the South.
posted by spitbull at 12:30 PM on November 5, 2012




Golden Eternity: "Stage has been nothing short of a home run for Priorities. Ace Metrix, a TV analytics company, rated it the most effective campaign spot of the 2012 election season.

One of the things that has surprised me this time around is that Mike Earnest hasn't become an object of media interest. You'd think that ad would've had some newspaper running a story about the guy behind the ad, but I've yet to come across one. The first time I saw that ad I really thought that the Priorities USA guys really were brilliant at this sort of thing. I mean, their other ads were good, but this one was just so simple, poignant, and devastating. Reagan and Clinton were often praised for being able to deliver dagger thrusts with smiles on their faces, but being able to deliver that kind of gut punch not with smiles, or anger, but regret and genuine hurt, is quite something. That ad will probably stay with me long after almost anything else that happened this campaign season has withered away.
posted by Kattullus at 12:41 PM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]




Hmmm, despite RCP now listing Ohio as +3% for Obama, Romney's Intrade firewall of 32% has held.
People, Romney can't win with just Florida and NC!

I hope some mefites make some coin with election results.
posted by Theta States at 12:55 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Polls Suggest Undecideds Won’t Help Romney (If They Show Up)
The latest WSJ/NBC national poll puts Obama up over Romney by the narrowest margin, 48 percent to 47 percent. But it’s the poll’s breakdown of respondents who are either undecided or still willing to consider switching that stands out. According to NBC, the 9 percent of voters who fit the bill are overwhelmingly warmer to Obama. They approve of his performance by a 48-41 margin and like him personally by a 46-29 margin, both better than his national averages. Romney, by contrast, fares much worse with a 22-46 favorability rating.
This is good news for the president, if true. The GOP has been banking on undecideds breaking for Romney. I'm glad this thing will be over tomorrow (or at least, the campaigning part). Things are looking good. A whole lotta stress and worry over the last few weeks, but I have done everything I could, devoting much of my time in the past few weeks to trying to win over undecideds, encourage likely Obama voters, and discourage likely Romney voters. I've donated. I'd have volunteered, had I been in the US. I wanted to make some GOTV calls to swing states, but the call scripts were too localized for my tastes.

Fingers crossed - I'll be staying up late tomorrow, looking forward to good news for our country.
posted by syzygy at 1:06 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Jay-Z coming on shortly same link. Bruce was stunning and inspiring.
posted by spitbull at 1:06 PM on November 5, 2012






That website's logo/motto is really "Peace - Gold - Love"? I feel like I'm being naive and just got trolled, Onion style.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:36 PM on November 5, 2012


It took me several comments into that chip thing to realize that they actually believed that it was real. How do these people survive?
posted by aspo at 1:37 PM on November 5, 2012




Wow, Husted is a name to remember. He may well have earned a place among the top three on the "biggest scumbags of the 2012 campaign" top ten list.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:50 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


I saw some stuff yesterday alleging that Ohio voters were receiving fake robocalls telling them that the election was postponed til wednesday; not sure if there was any confirmation though.
posted by elizardbits at 1:53 PM on November 5, 2012


at some point Joe went from being a perfectly reasonable conservative who thought Romney wasn't the best choice and that Obama was likely to win to being a mad-dog rabid Romney supporter who never met a Frank Luntz talking point he didn't like. I'm not sure what changed.

Probably his realization that a Romney loss was no longer an entertaining mid-summer possibility and increasingly a November likelihood. Scarbourogh was one of Newt's Boys of '94 and I give him credit for still being a Republican first and a pundit second. It's easy to earn bipartisan cred when your guy can win; not so easy when his chances are getting slimmer every day. I'm skeptical that Scarbourogh received any orders to lay off Romney, mostly because I don't think he ever needed any.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:54 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Brandon Blatcher: Vote for Romney and prevent Obamacare from implanting a chip in your arm!
aspo: It took me several comments into that chip thing to realize that they actually believed that it was real. How do these people survive?
This has been a thing since at least the '80s. (Previously) The more recent comments on that video are illuminating in light of the current hysteria. I say it all the time, but feel like I need to say again: We're doomed.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:55 PM on November 5, 2012


"To those Jews planning to vote for Obama:

Are you prepared to explain to your children not the principles upon which your vote is cast, but its probable effects upon them?"

"A note to a stiff-necked people" by David Mamet

...

"A response to a stiff-necked playwright" by Jay Michaelson

ZING!
posted by mrgrimm at 1:58 PM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


Did Jay-Z actually just say "I got 99 problems but a Mitt ain't one," or is Twitter messing with me?
posted by zombieflanders at 2:00 PM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


Not nearly enough profanity in that Mamet piece.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:01 PM on November 5, 2012


zombieflanders, he did indeed. The backing track was saying "bitch" at the same time Jay-Z was saying "Mitt" and it was odd.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:02 PM on November 5, 2012


Did Jay-Z actually just say "I got 99 problems but a Mitt ain't one," or is Twitter messing with me?

Looks like it happened. That's awesome.
posted by DynamiteToast at 2:02 PM on November 5, 2012


Four words for David Mamet:

Baptizing dead Jewish children.
posted by edgeways at 2:04 PM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


Awesome. If he makes a HOVA/OH-VA joke I will ask him and Beyonce to adopt me.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:05 PM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]




Mamet's proposed campaign slogan for Mitt:

"Everybody needs Romney. That's why they call him Romney."
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:14 PM on November 5, 2012


Man, it's a shame that both Mamet and Malkovich have gone down the right-wing hate hole. I still like much of their art, but it used to be far easier to support them. (Though Malkovich does support the organization that I work for, and we're fairly left.)
posted by klangklangston at 2:18 PM on November 5, 2012


Vote for Romney and prevent Obamacare from implanting a chip in your arm!

A YouTube commenter claims George Soros owns Snopes.com. I guess that's one way to stop people from debunking your mass e-mails.
posted by Gary at 2:22 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


The President connects the Boss with his biggest fan
COLUMBUS, Ohio — On what is supposed to be a day focused on swing states, New Jersey continues to pop up. The White House spokesman, Jay Carney, confirmed that President Obama had put Bruce Springsteen on the phone with Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey while the president and the Boss were flying to Columbus from Madison, Wis., on Air Force One.

Mr. Christie, a Republican, is well known as one of the biggest Bruce fans ever, but had not gotten love from Mr. Springsteen, a die-hard Democrat, in the past. Though Mr. Christie has attended more than 100 of his concerts, Mr. Springsteen has not invited him backstage.

But in these post-hurricane days of bipartisan bonhomie between Mr. Obama and Mr. Christie, who better than the president to serve as yenta between the Boss and his fan?

Mr. Christie promptly relayed the fact of the phone call to reporters. When asked, Mr. Carney confirmed: “When Potus told the governor he had someone who wanted to speak with him, Springsteen, who was using the handset across the table from the president, said, ‘Governor, this is Bruce.’ ”
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 2:32 PM on November 5, 2012 [9 favorites]


I've been watching intrade all day (ok, that's a lie, I've been watching it like a hawk for the past 4 weeks). After a valiant fight from Romney supporters that kept Obama's shares hovering between 65 and 67 for most of the day, they've now broken free and shot up to over 70% in the span of about 20 minutes.
posted by syzygy at 2:34 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Some of you might get some entertainment value out of Hour Of Slack #1382, in which Ivan Stang and friends read Yahoo News comments aloud with voices.
posted by JHarris at 2:34 PM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


The "Snopes is run by liberals" thing has been around since the last election.
posted by zarq at 2:37 PM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


‘Governor, this is Bruce.’

Well, in Trenton they say - that the Gov's small heart grew three sizes that day.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:40 PM on November 5, 2012 [6 favorites]


Well, in Trenton they say - that the Gov's small heart grew three sizes that day.

Is that what they're calling it these days?
posted by sallybrown at 2:44 PM on November 5, 2012


Obama's post-presidential career (post-2016, of course): taking over the Make A Wish Foundation.
posted by maudlin at 2:46 PM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]


Someone on FB suggested Mitt Romney take over New York Road Runners next week.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:46 PM on November 5, 2012


After a valiant fight from Romney supporters that kept Obama's shares hovering between 65 and 67 for most of the day, they've now broken free and shot up to over 70% in the span of about 20 minutes.

This InTrade market really is a wonderful thing. The betting market is a HUGELY successful predictor of events, and when the GOP tries to manipulate it to make it look like its candidates is doing better than he really is, all that money does is go to everyone backing Obama. It's quite wonderful. I wish I had thrown down a grand earlier.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:48 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Vanilla Bear and Chocolate Bear Ask the Children to Vote

I'm sad there was no EAGLE! during that video.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:56 PM on November 5, 2012




Frank Rich on Obama and Christie:
"The contrast in this odd couple’s race and body types alone seemed liked a Hollywood casting director’s dream, and the ravaged seaside setting could not have been more romantic. These are just the kind of bipartisan tableaus that are said (by establishment pundits and the self-styled 'centrists' of Morning Joe at least) to warm the hearts of independents. And even when Christie clarified on Sunday that he was still voting for Romney, he managed to turn it into another warm endorsement of Obama’s leadership."
posted by ericb at 3:03 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]




"I was with Bruce Friday night..."

Aww, he looks so happy!
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:07 PM on November 5, 2012


Conservative Explains Why Republicans Want to Suppress Voting
"Speaking more than 30 years ago at a right-wing conference in Dallas, [Co-founder of the Heritage Foundation, Moral Majority, Council for National Policy, and Free Congress Foundation, Paul] Weyrich set out the case for voter suppression. The right-wing and GOP are still acting on it to this day." *
posted by ericb at 3:11 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]




Update: Lawsuit filed in Ohio over software updates to vote tabulation machines

I tend not to believe in conspiracy theories of any kind, but this is a little troubling.
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:20 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]




you know after so many times of this you'd think someone would sue the state to actually develop best practices and follow established free and fair policies. I mean how fucking long, and how many god damn times does it take for OH to get it right in a presidential election? It is inexcusable and should fall under treason.
posted by edgeways at 3:30 PM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]




Also, apparently Romney's in-house pollster released their internal polling to the Daily Mail(?!), showing him up 1 in OH, 3 in NH, 2 in IA, and tied in WI and PA.

In response, (a) Nate Silver tweeted that "internal polls released to the public have a 6-point bias, on average, as we saw in Wisconsin recall earlier this year,” and (b) the archives of the internets showed that McCain's people had done much the same thing in 2008, and were obviously proven wrong.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:31 PM on November 5, 2012 [6 favorites]


from ericb's link 'New Evidence Shows Poll Watching Efforts Target Minority Precincts.': A spokesperson for True the Vote, which vowed to send a million poll watchers out to hunt down voter fraud, did not respond to an email inquiry. Its founder, Catherine Engelbrecht, told The New York Times that she suddenly became concerned with voter fraud after President Barack Obama's election in 2008. "I don’t know, something clicked,” she told the Times.

We bet it did, sweetie.
posted by winna at 3:40 PM on November 5, 2012 [22 favorites]


I mean how fucking long, and how many god damn times does it take for OH to get it right in a presidential election?

We got it right last time, again, with a Democrat as Secretary of State. We only have problems when the Republicans are in charge. The better question to ask is: why the hell do we (and by "we" I most emphatically do not mean "I") keep letting Republicans have these positions of power?

I cannot answer that one.
posted by cooker girl at 3:59 PM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


Oregon: Clackamas County/County Clerk facing recall petitions after temporary worker accused of tampering with ballots. Clackamas County commissioners will hold an emergency meeting 9 a.m. Monday to discuss the ongoing state investigation into allegations that a temporary county elections worker tampered with ballots to cast additional votes for Republicans.

[and after the meeting was held]

Suspect ballots won't count in Clackamas County; others quarantined
"There are two (ballots) that are highly suspect, is what we heard," Lehan said. "(Attorney General) Ellen Rosenblum said they'd sequestered all the ballots handled by this individual and are examining all of them. We don't know if that's 20 or 200. She didn't disclose that."

The initial ballot suspected of being tampered with on Oct. 31 "is evidence" and is not expected to be counted in the Nov. 6 election, County Counsel Stephen Madkour said. Because the ballot was removed from the secrecy envelope, there is no way to identify or contact the original voter, he said.

The voter apparently used a pen, and the elections employee is alleged to have used a pencil, Madkour said. "There is only one individual checked by the initial hand of the voter and the rest were pencil marks," Madkour said.

A second suspect ballot was discovered Nov. 1, he said. Officials are now inspecting other ballots the employee processed to see if there were similar markings, he said.
posted by cashman at 4:08 PM on November 5, 2012


And even when Christie clarified on Sunday that he was still voting for Romney, he managed to turn it into another warm endorsement of Obama’s leadership.

Now I'm picturing Christie in the voting booth on Tuesday morning with furrowed brow, agonizing over his decision, when all of a sudden two tiny Bruce Springsteens appear, each hovering over a shoulder. The Good Bruce implores him "Vote for The Prez, Christopher. In your heart you know he's the better man." The Evil Bruce mutters "Vote for The Haircut, you prick. Never go against the Family!"

(Of course, the Evil Bruce is the one from the "Dancing in the Dark" video.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:32 PM on November 5, 2012 [14 favorites]




The contrast in this odd couple’s race and body types alone seemed liked a Hollywood casting director’s dream

Breaking: Obama and Christie to reboot Laurel and Hardy film series.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:48 PM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


The voter apparently used a pen, and the elections employee is alleged to have used a pencil, Madkour said.

Incredible. I mean, you have to be pretty broken already to decide that altering ballots is a good idea. How goddamned brain-damaged do you have to be to make that decision, and then not bother to match the original marks?
posted by rifflesby at 4:58 PM on November 5, 2012


Big question as well, who the hell left one poll worker alone with ballots? In MN it always requires at least two people to handle/observe any unsealed ballots.
posted by edgeways at 5:05 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Keep calm . . .
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:12 PM on November 5, 2012 [13 favorites]


Women Could Sweep New Hampshire: If Democrats fare well there tomorrow night, New Hampshire could become the first state to be represented by a female governor and an all-female House and Senate delegation.

To this I say, If you wanna represent me, you gotta get with my friends!
posted by sallybrown at 5:21 PM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


Ezra Klein in the WaPo: "290 is what a conservative read of the polls says, as of this moment. And I trust the polls more than I trust my intuition, or the fragmented, impressionistic reporting on the two GOTV efforts. So I’m going with that."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:24 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


To this I say, If you wanna represent me, you gotta get with my friends!

1) I never understood why I have to sleep with their friends.
2) That link was light yellow before I clicked on it and god dammit I want to know why. I think Lucy has some 'splain to do when she gets home.
posted by Talez at 5:26 PM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm watching Fox News tonight while they have on all their pundits (Rove, Krauthammer, Morris, etc.) saying that Romney is basically a lock to win. I am also going to watch tomorrow night, as they begrudgingly have to acknowledge that reality does not reflect what goes on in their heads.

And it will be glorious.
posted by King Bee at 5:27 PM on November 5, 2012


I am also going to watch tomorrow night, as they begrudgingly have to acknowledge that reality does not reflect what goes on in their heads.

No they don't.

I got chastised late last week for something I screwed up at work. It was a simple mistake, but still - my fuckup. My boss's boss told me that "They don't pay me to be wrong".

These guys make 1000x what I do, and the level of accountability is 1/100000000000000 of mine.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 5:36 PM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]


No wonder Obama the Basketball fan loves politics, they both seem to come down to the last minute of playing. And while the big O looks like a very sure bet right now it could all change if things broke catastrophically.

Which is what makes the conservative pundit chatter so cracked, if they where on saying some version "Romney has a chance if he mobilizes his forces strongly blah blah blah" they would at least be in the parking lot of the ballpark of reality, but all this "absolutely going to win" is pure crapola. Why do they get away with it every 2/4 years? No consequences. They can say absolute shit (and they do), and no one holds them accountable for their abysmal predictive powers. Dick Morris has to have the worst record of calling races in the history of American media, and yet here he is again, as if he has any actual legitimacy. On Wednesday Peggy Noonan isn't going to say, oh well my feminine feelings where all wrong on Monday sorry folks. Fox et all are not going to go "hey Krauthammer, you really screwed the pooch on that one didn't you? We won't be needing your services next time kthnxby". man, I want a job where I can fuck up on a regular basis, and have no consequences from it.. seriously. Whereas, if say Nate Silver just happens to be way off that's it from him. 5:1 that bastion of ethics the NYT would fire him within a month.
posted by edgeways at 5:40 PM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


(or what Pogo just said only more rambly and incoherent)
posted by edgeways at 5:41 PM on November 5, 2012


Okay, I'm starting to get really excited. I wish I could go to sleep this instant, so the next time I open my eyes I can go vote.

The chocolate chip danish I bought for tomrrow night is already half gone. LOL bootstraps.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:48 PM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


We're going to need bigger Danish
posted by edgeways at 5:50 PM on November 5, 2012 [6 favorites]


trying to figure out what you're going to wear to Vote is a totally legit thing to do.
posted by The Whelk at 5:54 PM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


I'm gonna get up tomorrow morning, get my kids ready for school, drop them at the bus stop, and then vote. Since I live in white-bread suburbia, there will be no line for me.

Then I will come home and bake and make dips for most of the day for an election night party that my husband and I are co-hosting at our favorite tavern in a very, very, VERY liberal part of the city.

There will be much rejoicing and eating of sweets and dips.
posted by cooker girl at 5:57 PM on November 5, 2012


On behalf of all Canadians with our faces pressed up against the glass: I just want to tell you ...
posted by maudlin at 5:57 PM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


So.. kind of big news out of MN ,state wise. We have two Constitutional Amendments up on the ballot, put there by the MN GOP in a desperate bid to boost turn out because they have no viable national candidate for office (Klobachar-DFL is likely going to win by soul crushing numbers).

the first amendment question has to do with putting in the Constitution one man one woman (or as a friend calls it, one penis/one vagina) marriage. This, despite there already being a law against SSM in the State. I have actually been cautiously optimistic it would fail for a few weeks now, latest polls suggest it very well might. Not by a huge margin, but by enough.

The second amendment I had resigned myself to seeing it passed: this is the standard Voter ID claptrap, despite the projected costs being large and the implementation being awkward at best. Again another get out the vote red meat issue. A few weeks ago it was running about +15 to pass, pretty depressing, but there where some seriously avenues to challenge it in court (including duo question on one amendment for instance, "Should the state require ID to vote and should the state pay for that ID") But... but but. Two polls out show a dead heat (48/48).

Both these amendments have to pass with at least 50% of voters actually voting for them, a non-vote counts as a no vote.

I hope they both get crammed down the throats of those who put them up.... hard.
posted by edgeways at 6:07 PM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


Ask Dr. Popkin: The 3 Myths of the Romney Campaign
Myth Three is that the Republicans lost because Romney was a lousy candidate. A Republican capable of winning the Massachusetts gubernatorial election - not to mention one capable of enacting the cost-saving healthcare policy advocated by the Heritage Foundation - is not devoid of talent. And were his oft-discussed personality flaws any worse than Richard Nixon's?

To put it bluntly: either the Romney campaign never had a chance, or they blew it through early strategic choices. I believe that, while it is never easy to take on an incumbent, the Romney campaign lost whatever chance they had because of early mistakes.
No seriously, Romney was a lousy candidate for a 2012 Presidential election. The population is more diverse than Massachusetts in 2002 or Nixon's in 1972. The economy sucks and it was a...less than brilliant idea to run a businessman who participated in closing businesses down to make himself super rich.

Had Romney made millions by working himself up from the mailroom at company that made good widgets and him becoming CEO of it turned the company and its local community around, then yeah, that's a candidate to run against Obama. That's a 'businessman' a majority will look up to. Romney? He came off the asshole CEO you can believe is looking down his nose at you and would fire you if your efficiency rating was dropped by .25% in one quarter. Romney's never had to appease or appeal to everyday folks and frankly it showed in every cringe inducing attempt he made.

The GOP remains blinded by their own hatred and think they can just throw crap at the wall and make it stick. They forgot that people like Obama even if they don't agree with him. Hell, that was half the battle for the President right there. If people like you, they're willing to cut you a certain amount of slack.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:13 PM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


Some big late jumps for Obama on fivethirtyeight.

314 Obama to 223 Romney.

Obama 91.4% chance of winning. Romney now down to 8.6%.

Big jump for Obama on the popular vote too. Almost a +3 lead on Romney now. Possibly due to Gallup coming to its senses.
posted by smithsmith at 6:14 PM on November 5, 2012 [7 favorites]


Ballot initiatives in general are bad for democracy, and those in particular sound horrible. Good luck, edgeways -- MN is the kind of state that ought to be a really deep shade of blue, and the kind of loss of franchise that comes with voter ID laws could set you guys back quite a bit.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:15 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Dear God, smithsmith, that's awesome. I hope Silver is right.

(the smart money does not bet against nate silver. the smart money does not bet against nate silver. the smart money does not bet against nate silver.)
posted by KathrynT at 6:17 PM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


omg.omg.omg.omg.omg.
posted by cooker girl at 6:18 PM on November 5, 2012


I also notice over on Fox (I won't bother linking) they're already starting with the "DITCH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE" rhetoric, which is a terrible sign for Romney.
posted by smithsmith at 6:21 PM on November 5, 2012


A Republican capable of winning the Massachusetts gubernatorial election - not to mention one capable of enacting the cost-saving healthcare policy advocated by the Heritage Foundation - is not devoid of talent.

Er, dude. Republican govs in MA are not rare.


Ballot initiatives in general are bad for democracy

I live in CA and was literally just ranting about this.
posted by rtha at 6:30 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


So, about Voter ID laws, I just found myself thinking, "Eh, if I have to show ID to buy decongestant medicines, it makes sense I'd have to show ID to vote."

Then I stopped myself, and realized how I had just reasoned.

The terrorists have won!
posted by meese at 6:35 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Obama 91.4% chance of winning. Romney now down to 8.6%.

Wow, Florida has gone light blue! I hope that sticks, because I very much want Obama to win states in which republicans have worked so tirelessly to disenfranchise American voters.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:38 PM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]


Also on the most recent 538 update, Florida flipped from very pale red to very pale blue. Now listed as 52.5% chance Obama win.
posted by Babblesort at 6:38 PM on November 5, 2012


Anyone know if there is a poll or polls that made Florida flip, or is it just more of the model converging on the polls and away from the other indicators?
posted by tonycpsu at 6:40 PM on November 5, 2012


Because after what's gone on down in Florida with "Governor Bat Boy" killing early voting hours and generally trying to White the Vote, winning Florida would be freakin' sweet.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:41 PM on November 5, 2012


So, about Voter ID laws, I just found myself thinking, "Eh, if I have to show ID to buy decongestant medicines, it makes sense I'd have to show ID to vote."

The trouble isn't in the having an ID part. It's in the difficulty of getting one part.

I'm down with needing an ID to vote. Move, get a new ID, use that to vote. Use that to pay bills. Use that to prove you're 21 and can drink and smoke and whatnot. IDs aren't bad but then, I guess my career as a sysadmin sort of colors my opinion

What I am not down with is wantonly deciding people can't vote because they share the name of a felon, or can't have an ID because the birth certificate is from two counties over. I am not down with understaffing polling stations or randomly moving them from previous locations. Or....

The ID thing is the least odious of the things the current crop of republican morons has thought up.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:43 PM on November 5, 2012


Now that's kind of weird (Florida). Nate says on Twitter that he's adding polls, so he must have seen something. The RCP ones seem to point to a slight margin for Romney. Perhaps a new post will go up in the next few hours.
posted by cashman at 6:47 PM on November 5, 2012


Redstate rationalizations alert: conservative family member just posted that the ONLY reason race is close is that people who don't work (I guess this is code for Those People) have been only ones who could vote already. Working people of America will change everything when they vote Romney tomorrow, because, I quote, "I don't wanna have to barter eggs for food," which I guess happens if Obama wins.

Whole lotta crazy out there. Too much of it in my family.
posted by emjaybee at 6:47 PM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


Speaking of White the Vote.

Seriously, fuck these assholes.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:49 PM on November 5, 2012


Metafilter: Whole lotta crazy out there.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:49 PM on November 5, 2012


Ha, I knew the 538 estimate would hit 90% Obama. Just fucking knew it. Just didn't know where to place a bet on it.
posted by localroger at 6:55 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


I suspect 538 flipping Florida has to do with the adjustment for national polls. The latest two national polls out have Obama up slightly. As close as the state polling is the shift in the national polls could have been enough for his model to flip it.
posted by wierdo at 7:02 PM on November 5, 2012




Following on wierdo's post, according to the state by state projections at 538, Romney still leads in the Florida polling average, but the adjusted polling average is now Obama 48.4, Romney 47.9. One of the adjustments, according to the little pop-up explanation, is for national trend. Since the national polls are moving in Obama's direction, the state predictions are taking that into account. Thus leading to the 52% probability of Obama taking Florida.
posted by Bokmakierie at 7:05 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


ROMNEY ANNOUNCES HIS FIRST ACTION AS PRESIDENT WILL BE TO REPLENISH THE STRATEGIC CAPITAL LETTERS RESERVE.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:08 PM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


Obama/Romney interviews on Monday Night Football momentarily. Taped this afternoon.
posted by cashman at 7:08 PM on November 5, 2012


The 538 Chance of Winning line for Obama is now up above the pre-Debate #1 chances. Wasn't sure we'd see that before this was over!
posted by jason_steakums at 7:13 PM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


Also, I have to admit: half of my desire to see Obama win Florida is to watch the networks, and especially Fox, spin their wheels for hours when they were clearly planning on riding this TOO CLOSE TO CALL fake tension all night long.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:16 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Someone asked earlier about a place to watch online and see the (state by state) results come in. Anybody seen anything? In 2008, the networks were definitely a step behind online.
posted by cashman at 7:23 PM on November 5, 2012


The Daily Beast analyzes the polls for us and says: Too Close to Call.
posted by octothorpe at 7:33 PM on November 5, 2012


The usual awesome spleen-venting from the rude pundit.

In the end, vote for Obama because Fuck Romney.
He wants Romney pantsed and whipped through the streets until he disappears, yowling into the wilderness, never to be seen again, because the Rude Pundit wants to kill the myth of the businessman-as-leader. Let's be clear: Romney had only four years of experience as an elected official of any sort, far less than Obama when he ran in 2008. So Romney's left with his Bain Capital experience, and we're supposed to believe that because he knows how to contort the finances of failing companies in order to profit his investors, he should be allowed to decide whether or not we should go to war with Iran.
posted by gaspode at 7:34 PM on November 5, 2012 [6 favorites]




If Nate Silver and Tilda Swinton raised a child together, that child would be Nate Silver 2.0 (@fivethirtynate)
posted by gladly at 7:53 PM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]




{Oops, Michelle is speaking, now.}
posted by Skygazer at 7:59 PM on November 5, 2012


Gaspode: you missed the best part...
(Note to fellow liberals: If you don't wanna vote for Obama or want to vote for Jill Stein, well, it's your vote, motherfuckers. Do with it what you will. Some people spend all their money on meth. It might fuck up their lives permanently, but they sure feel good while they're doing it.)
posted by aspo at 8:00 PM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]


Yeah, I did like that bit too. But I really like the bit about the myth of businessman as leader. Because that gets up my ass as well.
posted by gaspode at 8:01 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Josh Mandel's family took out an ad opposing him.

Josh Mandel: A Shande fur de Goyim

This ad payed for by the Ratners. Why wouldn't we approve of it?
posted by benito.strauss at 8:03 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


http://isnatesilverawitch.com/
posted by Skygazer at 8:05 PM on November 5, 2012 [8 favorites]


Bona-fide Christian? (gonna have to throw in "white" there as well) You mean a feed the poor, take care of the least fortunate, judge not least you be judged, render unto Caesar what is Caeser's, type Christian,

So then, this is Jimmy Carter we're talking about?
posted by flug at 8:13 PM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


Seeing the 538 Now-Cast and Nov-6-Cast converged feels so weird and final. We've reached the boss level, people.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:19 PM on November 5, 2012 [6 favorites]


I can't believe the predictions are STILL changing, up to 92.2% now. WHEE.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 PM on November 5, 2012


If you use the Konami code on five thirty eight, Obama gets a 30 point boost in the nowcast and all powerups except for Speed Up, Double, and Laser.

I think I'm going to be walking around telling people "There's a potential Donkey Kong kill screen coming up if anyone wants to watch." And my coworkers will say, "What are you talking about?" and I'll say "the election". And then somehow they'll think I'm even weirder than they already do.
posted by goHermGO at 8:27 PM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


Obama's telling an anecdote about the 2008 primary at his Iowa rally.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/obamas-last-campaign-rally-in-iowa-watch-live

The nostalgia is really coming through. He sounds more honest and heartfelt than I've heard in literally years.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:28 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


FIRED UP!
posted by cashman at 8:30 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


And back in Minnesota, the race for the 6th Congressional District between Michele Bachmann and Jim Graves has gotten close. Keep your fingers crossed for us to get rid of this horrible woman.
posted by triggerfinger at 8:30 PM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


Telling the history of the "fired up" slogan. Really enjoying this.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:31 PM on November 5, 2012


READY TO GO!
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 8:32 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


For the last campaign rally I'll ever do....for me.

Oooh
posted by cashman at 8:33 PM on November 5, 2012


He's really enjoying it too.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:34 PM on November 5, 2012


GREAT story - Edith (inventor of Fired Up - Ready to Go) is in NC knocking on doors today.
posted by cashman at 8:34 PM on November 5, 2012


Obama just killed it in Des Moines.

He told the Edith Child story. So excellent. Edith Child is the woman in who came up with "Fired Up! Ready to go!"

He's such a good storyteller. I hope he does more of that to make his point if he has second term. Fingers crossed.
posted by Skygazer at 8:34 PM on November 5, 2012




I miss the old cheers. "Forward" doesn't do it for me like "Yes We Can!" and "Fired Up! Ready to Go!"

That little cry in Obama's voice just melts my heart.
posted by sallybrown at 8:35 PM on November 5, 2012


He had a tear or two when he started speaking. Did you see him wipe it away all cool-like?
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 8:35 PM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


Holy crap, I am REALLY FIRED UP.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:37 PM on November 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


I've been expecting for ages that he'd tell the Fired Up story again. Everyone did, I bet. And I bet every single person in that audience had heard it before. We all knew the beats; the rhythms of the story are well-worn, comfortable like an old coat, comforting like an ancient myth. Obama's always known the power and grace of a good story.

And, damn. Damn! Ready to go!
posted by meese at 8:38 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Gottdamn that man can give a speech.
posted by Babblesort at 8:40 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]




The election starts in Dixville Notch, NH in a few minutes, right? I really wanted to make a ginormous post, chock full of voting information but I didn't. But I'm guessing an election post should be up soon. When do they report the Dixville Notch votes?
posted by cashman at 8:55 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


I voted because of disenfranchisement attempts. I hope that others of like mind did the same. Florida, where I currently cast my ballot, going light blue in the predictions of the last few hours makes me oh so happy.

I wish I would have taken tomorrow off work so that I could revel all the more in the spanking these suckers are going to take. Please God of the Conservative Right and Nutjob Pundits, make it extra painful and mentally straining on your constituents. Lord knows, I mean You, You know they deserve it more than the people they've tried to, and have actually, shit on. Be the God of Wrath that some of them say you can be.

Meanwhile, I'll be sipping brewskies and watching the results tick in. Make hay while the sun shines and all that jazz...
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:56 PM on November 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


I have a 7:00 am (eastern) flight followed by Northern Regional Training until like 5:30/6. Nobody decide the election until I'm near a computer!
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:58 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Final endorsement count - Obama 41, Romney 35.
posted by cashman at 9:05 PM on November 5, 2012


What 20,000 fired up Iowans look like [Instagram]
posted by cashman at 9:07 PM on November 5, 2012 [5 favorites]


Final endorsement count - Obama 41, Romney 35.

If you're curious like I was, the McCain -> Obama paper was from San Antonio, and the paper that didn't endorse in 08 that went for Obama this time was one out of Honolulu.
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:08 PM on November 5, 2012


That's a great photo, cashman!
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 9:11 PM on November 5, 2012


I love the Fired Up story, but for me, that casual "now let's go change the world" he ends a lot of rallies with is where the money's at. Just something about the offhandedness of it, the way it's an afterthought, the "yeah, you actually can change the world with just a little effort, you know that, I don't have to say it" of it, it's such a nice little touch.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:12 PM on November 5, 2012


There was a tie in Dixville Notch, 5-5. What does the Constitution say about that?
posted by saturday_morning at 9:13 PM on November 5, 2012


Oh god. My nerves aren't ready for this day yet.
posted by cashman at 9:16 PM on November 5, 2012 [7 favorites]


Obama ends 2012 campaign in Iowa, the state where it all began with caucus victory

Obama's 2008 win in Iowa has taken on almost mythical proportions among aides who spent months here with the then-unknown U.S. senator from Illinois, urging voters in the largely white state to put a black man on the path to the presidency.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:25 PM on November 5, 2012


If it makes you feel any better, I'm in one of the bluest states in the country, and my Facebook feed is full of Romney supporters, too, because my family are all republicans. Your facebook feed is not a representative sample of the state. That's why we have polls.
posted by empath at 10:09 PM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


Seriously. I don't know how ya'll can be so confident.

It's simple. Obama has many paths to victory, Romney has very few. Even after the first debate, his projected Electoral count never got to 270.

Also, Barack Obama does not lose. He's got this.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:11 PM on November 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


I thought snickerdoodle meant that she'd seen all the ridiculous things that are going on in Ohio. I know folks there and there have been people handing out racist pamphlets, and of course all Husted's madness, and the long lines due to restricted early voting. My solace lately (besides contacting people I know in Ohio and even people I know who know people in Ohio) has been seeing how much stamina folks have in going to the polls and staying to vote. It really does make you feel big and strong, as Bob Scheiffer's mom says. It also soothes me because I have that Jeff Goldblum voice in my head like "Voters...eh....find a way". Screw you, Husted!
posted by cashman at 10:15 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]






> Florida, where I currently cast my ballot, going light blue in the predictions of the last few hours makes me oh so happy.

... litmus!

> The Next President Is Lucky: Whoever wins the election will get to preside over a growing economy and look like a genius.

Haven't read the article but I agree with the title line. Obama is the (economic) path to a prosperous world; Romney is the (economic) path to a prosperous US, at the world's expense.

This election should not be about home economics. It should be about a new world order.

Sleep well.
Good will prevail.
posted by de at 10:59 PM on November 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


New World Order
posted by homunculus at 11:17 PM on November 5, 2012




snickerdoodle, Drew Linzer has you covered. Basically, there are basically two sorts of polls right now. One set is Rasmussen, Gravis, and ARG, who historically lean right. The other is everybody else including all the small polling organizations who release only a few polls in a few states. For Romney to win, the historically Republican-biased pollsters have to be the only ones reading the election correctly.

Could it happen? Sure. Is that likely to be the case? Not really.
posted by wierdo at 12:13 AM on November 6, 2012 [2 favorites]




The Dixville Notch story, from USA Today:
2:11AM EST November 6. 2012 - Maybe this will be a close election: President Obama and Mitt Romney tied in Dixville Notch, one of two tiny New Hampshire villages that get to cast the first votes of the presidential election on Election Day.

Each candidate received five votes -- the first tie in Dixville Notch history. In 2008, Obama received 15 of the 21 votes cast.

In Hart's Location, the other New Hampshire town that enjoys first-vote status, Obama won with 23 votes, Romney received 9 and Libertarian Gary Johnson received 1 vote. In 2008, Obama received 17 of the 29 votes cast.

The towns have proudly held their first-vote status since 1948.
posted by Skygazer at 1:46 AM on November 6, 2012


A Manhattan-based friend ended an email to me with something to the tune of "so much for Fema"; frustrated, and probably rightly so...but I have no idea what exactly you can do when a big storm brings its fury to an area where tens of millions live. But it has me a bit worried that normally blue areas are going to take out their frustration today, despite all the evidence that things would be magnitudes worse under the opposition.
posted by maxwelton at 2:26 AM on November 6, 2012


How about this bullshit? Apparently Romney is going to Cleveland and Pittsburgh tomorrow solely to try to tie up traffic and snarl voting in two Dem stronghold cities.

The guy is a douchebag. He was always a douchebag. And an entitled bully.

Vote for revenge -- yes, the right word -- on every douchebag bully you've ever known.

Fuck Mitt Romney.
posted by spitbull at 3:15 AM on November 6, 2012 [2 favorites]


Tomorrow=Wednesday? Where did you hear that?
posted by futz at 3:22 AM on November 6, 2012


Sorry, today of course. I'm still waking up. Second coffee right now.

BTW:

Barack Obama does not lose elections.
posted by spitbull at 9:29 AM on September 6 [2 favorites +] [!]

posted by spitbull at 3:25 AM on November 6, 2012


> Fuck Mitt Romney.

Can't we just push him over a fiscal cliff?
posted by de at 3:36 AM on November 6, 2012


Well, I think Romney needs PA and/or Ohio to win. He needs to go to the places where he's less likely to already get the votes, or where people may not turn out. I'm not too angry that he'd put those stops in, that's how these things go.
posted by OmieWise at 3:37 AM on November 6, 2012


Ok folks it's been real, keep the flame alive and all that jive. I'm out the door to go staff the polling station for, uff, 15 hours. Give me good news when I get back eh?
posted by edgeways at 3:44 AM on November 6, 2012 [11 favorites]


And so the grunting filthy tainted beast heaves itself, dripping with noisome sweat, across the big money finish line.

Which is to say: good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:49 AM on November 6, 2012 [5 favorites]


While I'm positive that everyone still reading this is watching the front page like a hawk, just in case you haven't noticed, we've got an election day thread fuck yeah!
posted by Kattullus at 4:11 AM on November 6, 2012 [6 favorites]


Yes everyone, go to the new thread.

This thread now belongs to King Brandon the I! Video games and hot chocolate for all!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:00 AM on November 6, 2012 [1 favorite]


That's reason enough for me to stay!
posted by OmieWise at 5:10 AM on November 6, 2012


I proclaim challenge to the illstarred Brandon I, and lay to claim this thread and all its riches for myself and my glorious descendants!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:13 AM on November 6, 2012


I like Blatcher's hot chocolate policies but thewonderchicken has better family values. How do I vote??

With my fists, that's how.
posted by fleacircus at 5:32 AM on November 6, 2012 [3 favorites]


No, with SuperMarioDome!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:51 AM on November 6, 2012


Redstate rationalizations alert: conservative family member just posted that the ONLY reason race is close is that people who don't work (I guess this is code for Those People) have been only ones who could vote already.

Not true. My husband works and we voted last week during the work day. Also, we're house hunting and had been discouraged seeing nothing and I mean NOTHING but Romney signs in every yard. Last weekend we began seeing Obama signs for the first time in yards and on cars-it was weird. For all these months it's like Obama didn't even exist here in Jacksonville and then suddenly, boom! supporters were all over the place.
posted by hollygoheavy at 5:58 AM on November 6, 2012


Also, as irrational as it is, we find we're not inclined to make an appt to look at a house if the yard is covered with Romney and "FIRE OBAMA" signs. It's our own personal bias, I guess.
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:00 AM on November 6, 2012


ROMNEY LANDSLIDE: HERE ARE THE BIGGEST NAMES PREDICTING IT & HOW IT WILL HAPPEN

This just in: straight white rich men like Mitt Romney!
posted by Theta States at 6:17 AM on November 6, 2012


Also, I have to admit: half of my desire to see Obama win Florida is to watch the networks, and especially Fox, spin their wheels for hours when they were clearly planning on riding this TOO CLOSE TO CALL fake tension all night long.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:16 PM on November 5 [1 favorite +] [!]

Seriously. This is how it goes down:
Obama wins Virginia and Ohio and NH, I can go to be relatively early, content, and just a bit tipsy.
Obama wins FLORIDA? I stay up far too late, finish all the booze, and make sarcastic comments at the Fox News stream for hours.
posted by Theta States at 6:22 AM on November 6, 2012 [4 favorites]


Josh Mandel's family took out an ad opposing him.

Man, this letter is devastating.


So, do you think we could keep this thread open for tea and scones delicious apple pie? It has virtually been my homepage for the last couple of weeks.
posted by ersatz at 7:00 AM on November 6, 2012


THE ELECTION THREAD IS DEAD

LONG LIVE THE ELECTION THREAD
posted by barnacles at 8:05 AM on November 6, 2012 [1 favorite]


Seriously. This is how it goes down:
Obama wins Virginia and Ohio and NH, I can go to be relatively early, content, and just a bit tipsy.
Obama wins FLORIDA? I stay up far too late, finish all the booze, and make sarcastic comments at the Fox News stream for hours.


BOOZE/ALL OF IT 2012
Paid for by All of the Booze for America
posted by jason_steakums at 9:01 AM on November 6, 2012 [9 favorites]


Josh Mandel's family took out an ad opposing him.

Man, this letter is devastating.


More accurately, Josh Mandel's in-laws. I would say that dude has zero chance, but maybe it's more like 5-10%.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:26 AM on November 6, 2012


I am sorry this thread did not end up being the official U.S. election thread, too. Sorry, rest of the world!
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:19 AM on November 6, 2012 [1 favorite]


I am the Harry R. Truman of this thread.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:28 AM on November 6, 2012


I'm the H. Randall Truman of this thread.
posted by OmieWise at 11:36 AM on November 6, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm just threadsquatting for shelter.
posted by Theta States at 11:41 AM on November 6, 2012 [1 favorite]


*Pokes at the fire. Warms metaphorical hands.*
posted by Skygazer at 12:45 PM on November 6, 2012 [1 favorite]


I had to get up at 6:00 this morning and drive to another state for a field service trip. When I reached Jackson the manager who greeted me (a Republican who well knows my Democratic leaning) was ashen. "Dude, I didn't realize when we scheduled this it was election day. I hope I didn't screw up your chance to vote."

When I told him I voted a week and a half ago in Louisiana's early voting cycle, he was visibly and I believe genuinely relieved.
posted by localroger at 2:06 PM on November 6, 2012 [5 favorites]


I am Commander Shepard and this is my favourite thread in the Citadel.
posted by ersatz at 5:40 PM on November 6, 2012 [5 favorites]


w00t! Couldn't close the thread 'til now, burn well ol' longboat.
posted by hap_hazard at 8:45 PM on November 6, 2012


This tab has had the 500 error since the servers crashed last night. I kind of wish I'd left it that way.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:43 PM on November 7, 2012


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