bad flags
May 4, 2016 8:16 AM Subscribe
bad flags. bad flags previously. the worst (and best, I guess) city flags in the US. or also this one. THESE CITIES HAVE HAD IT WITH THEIR BAD FLAGS
bad flags bad flags bad flags bad flags
bad flags bad flags bad flags bad flags
Putting the name of your city on its flag is like those Halloween costumes from the '70s that were just like, a Batman mask, and then a shirt WITH A PICTURE OF BATMAN ON IT!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:46 AM on May 4, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:46 AM on May 4, 2016 [15 favorites]
All I know is that the biggest turnaround story from "hilariously bad" to "hey that's really nice" comes straight from Provo, Utah.
posted by chimaera at 8:48 AM on May 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by chimaera at 8:48 AM on May 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Proud to come from a city with an excellent city flag.
posted by enjoymoreradio at 8:58 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by enjoymoreradio at 8:58 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Note that the new Provo flag violates rule 4 of the supposed rules for flags.
posted by tavella at 8:59 AM on May 4, 2016
posted by tavella at 8:59 AM on May 4, 2016
Surprised to not see Chicago on the "Nicest City Flags" list.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:06 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 9:06 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Note that the new Provo flag violates rule 4 of the supposed rules for flags.
By the letter of the the law, but not the spirit, I think. If the seal is stylized and simplified as Provo has done, the fact that they use a seal is fine. The problem comes in with more traditional seals, like we see on many state flags. It's still a seal on a bed sheet, but it's a legible, vexillologically-friendly seal.
posted by enjoymoreradio at 9:09 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
By the letter of the the law, but not the spirit, I think. If the seal is stylized and simplified as Provo has done, the fact that they use a seal is fine. The problem comes in with more traditional seals, like we see on many state flags. It's still a seal on a bed sheet, but it's a legible, vexillologically-friendly seal.
posted by enjoymoreradio at 9:09 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
I just moved to South Carolina, and the state flag is literally one of the top 3 things I like about this place. The city flag isn't bad either.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:12 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:12 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Same here, Navelgazer. Chicago's flag is almost always trotted out as a prime example of good flaggage (mainly by Chicagoans).
Personally, I'm in awe of the old Provo flag as something that somebody presumably designed and got paid for. My quick research points to former mayor Joe Jenkins being responsible for Word Art: The Flag in the mid 80's. Also, he is quoted as saying "I don't believe in failure" which explains a lot.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 9:13 AM on May 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Personally, I'm in awe of the old Provo flag as something that somebody presumably designed and got paid for. My quick research points to former mayor Joe Jenkins being responsible for Word Art: The Flag in the mid 80's. Also, he is quoted as saying "I don't believe in failure" which explains a lot.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 9:13 AM on May 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Couple of weekends ago Lexica & I got a chance to meet Roman Mars and other podcasters/fans for a walk around Lake Merritt here in Oakland.
He told us that he finally went to visit Pocatello Idaho, whose flag he referenced as "The worst city flag in America" in the infamous TED talk. He was a little nervous about what kind of reception he would receive.
Pocatellans told him "It was a gift." If they were 2nd worst, maybe nothing would happen. But worst city flag in the country? That motivated people to get on it.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:20 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
He told us that he finally went to visit Pocatello Idaho, whose flag he referenced as "The worst city flag in America" in the infamous TED talk. He was a little nervous about what kind of reception he would receive.
Pocatellans told him "It was a gift." If they were 2nd worst, maybe nothing would happen. But worst city flag in the country? That motivated people to get on it.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:20 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Buffalo is on the nice flags list, because of course it is, it's a nice flag. I have it tattooed on my thigh.
Lightning bolts because it was one of America's first cities to get electricity. There are mules for the Erie Canal. Three different cool boats. Lovely in deep blue and crisp white. Simple design, but rich with detail. Couldn't ask for a better flag.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 9:52 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lightning bolts because it was one of America's first cities to get electricity. There are mules for the Erie Canal. Three different cool boats. Lovely in deep blue and crisp white. Simple design, but rich with detail. Couldn't ask for a better flag.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 9:52 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Just based on flags alone, I'm glad I moved here and not here. The former is more vivid and exciting, even though they are both plagued with vague symbols signifying abstract civic ideals. Of course, you really never see either of these flags flying anywhere, unlike my home city, which has a great flag that you actually see flying from businesses and people's homes.
posted by heurtebise at 9:54 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by heurtebise at 9:54 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
The city flag isn't bad either.
Also breaks "rule" 4! And rule 3! Honestly, that list kind of pisses me off. It's the kind of thing where someone has taken some useful ideas for things that can make decent flags, and turned it into a shibboleth. It's like they were frozen at the second stage of learning -- the first is where you don't know anything, the second is where you know all the structure, the third where you understand where you can go outside the structure and make wonderful things.
posted by tavella at 10:07 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also breaks "rule" 4! And rule 3! Honestly, that list kind of pisses me off. It's the kind of thing where someone has taken some useful ideas for things that can make decent flags, and turned it into a shibboleth. It's like they were frozen at the second stage of learning -- the first is where you don't know anything, the second is where you know all the structure, the third where you understand where you can go outside the structure and make wonderful things.
posted by tavella at 10:07 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
San Diego's flag is basically the same as Columbus's, except there's a different seal. There's nothing wrong with either; they're just kind of plain.
I'm surprised there's not more love for St. Louis. It's sharp.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:15 AM on May 4, 2016
I'm surprised there's not more love for St. Louis. It's sharp.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:15 AM on May 4, 2016
The Oakland, CA flag is OK. 2 contrasting colors, iconic Oak, minus points for the date of the founding, but still a decent design.
But it doesn't inspire civic pride lik the Chicago flag does; No Oakland cops or firefighters have their coffin draped w the official city flag at their funeral. Yellow & green are the Oakland A's colors, but no one associates that w th flag.
The image that probably inspires more civic pride is the Oaklandish logo. The oak has roots, the body of the tree is reminiscent of the BART map, silver & black for the RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIDEEEEEEEEERS!!!!!!!!
If that flag had the name of the t-shirt shop removed, that would probably get voted in as city flag pretty easily.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:20 AM on May 4, 2016
But it doesn't inspire civic pride lik the Chicago flag does; No Oakland cops or firefighters have their coffin draped w the official city flag at their funeral. Yellow & green are the Oakland A's colors, but no one associates that w th flag.
The image that probably inspires more civic pride is the Oaklandish logo. The oak has roots, the body of the tree is reminiscent of the BART map, silver & black for the RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIDEEEEEEEEERS!!!!!!!!
If that flag had the name of the t-shirt shop removed, that would probably get voted in as city flag pretty easily.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:20 AM on May 4, 2016
Here is the problem with bad flags.
You can tell what the ones right up front waving in the breeze are, no problem. But the back row? Well, New Mexico is pretty obvious, because it's a good flag. North Carolina, Mississippi, and Maryland, too. And then there are a whole bunch of blue flags with indistinguishable blobs on them. I don't love seal flags anyway, because a lot of seals are dumb, but the real problem is that they almost all look identical from a distance or if the flag is hanging limp, and being identified quickly from a distance is basically the only point of flags.
posted by Copronymus at 10:25 AM on May 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
You can tell what the ones right up front waving in the breeze are, no problem. But the back row? Well, New Mexico is pretty obvious, because it's a good flag. North Carolina, Mississippi, and Maryland, too. And then there are a whole bunch of blue flags with indistinguishable blobs on them. I don't love seal flags anyway, because a lot of seals are dumb, but the real problem is that they almost all look identical from a distance or if the flag is hanging limp, and being identified quickly from a distance is basically the only point of flags.
posted by Copronymus at 10:25 AM on May 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
On reading my own comment, I should point out that being easily distinguishable is not enough to save Mississippi's flag from being an embarrassment, and even if their state seal is a pointless ripoff of the US seal, it would still be better to have that and an indistinguishable flag than to continue commemorating the Confederacy.
posted by Copronymus at 10:30 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 10:30 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Not a flag per se, but no discussion of bad city symbols is complete without a nod to Whitesboro, NY.
posted by CaseyB at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by CaseyB at 11:00 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
heyooo my hometown is number one on the failure list! i don't think it's that bad of a flag (except for the olivey green color), but i'm biased i guess, partially because i love cats. i didn't know that was our town slogan, either, but hey, learning something new every day
posted by burgerrr at 11:32 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by burgerrr at 11:32 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
But do the colors of your city's flag match the colors of all three of your city's sports teams?
posted by octothorpe at 11:32 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 11:32 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think when the city's name is Los Gatos, you can be forgiven for having cats on the flag.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:36 AM on May 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 11:36 AM on May 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
"The "rules for flags" would make for a bunch of utterly boring indistinguishable flags. My birth state has a seal, and I love it. It's Liberty stomping on a king she just shanked! and "sic semper tyrannis" is a great slogan, why wouldn't you put it on your flag? "
Because you see it from a distance and can't read "Sic semper tyrannis."
posted by klangklangston at 11:49 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Because you see it from a distance and can't read "Sic semper tyrannis."
posted by klangklangston at 11:49 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
And I do love the colors on the LA flag — a lot of people hate it, but it's from a 1920s "fiesta" design craze and it works well again now. Presumably, it will look ugly as shit in 10 years and be back in vogue in about 100.
posted by klangklangston at 11:51 AM on May 4, 2016
posted by klangklangston at 11:51 AM on May 4, 2016
Because you see it from a distance and can't read "Sic semper tyrannis."
Yes, and so what? It's not like we are leading armies against Maryland and need people to know who to shoot at. State flags these days mostly show up on licenses plates and in front of government buildings, and municipality flags don't even make it to license plates. One of the sins of that list is that it is applying things that make sense for country flags to all kinds of flags. Country flags have to be usable and quickly recognizable in many contexts, including small patches on military uniforms and equipment. The biggest problem city flags have is no one knowing where they hell they are from, so putting names on them makes a lot of sense where it would be poor design for a country.
posted by tavella at 12:17 PM on May 4, 2016
Yes, and so what? It's not like we are leading armies against Maryland and need people to know who to shoot at. State flags these days mostly show up on licenses plates and in front of government buildings, and municipality flags don't even make it to license plates. One of the sins of that list is that it is applying things that make sense for country flags to all kinds of flags. Country flags have to be usable and quickly recognizable in many contexts, including small patches on military uniforms and equipment. The biggest problem city flags have is no one knowing where they hell they are from, so putting names on them makes a lot of sense where it would be poor design for a country.
posted by tavella at 12:17 PM on May 4, 2016
Milwaukee's flag is atrocious. There's (hopefully) serious talk of re-designing it. Maybe we'll just slap a barrel of beer on a flag (maybe a blue one, for Lake Michigan?) and call it a day.
But yeah, it's a major eyesore and a source of private shame for Milwaukeeans of all stripes.
posted by Fister Roboto at 12:50 PM on May 4, 2016
But yeah, it's a major eyesore and a source of private shame for Milwaukeeans of all stripes.
posted by Fister Roboto at 12:50 PM on May 4, 2016
When he finally saw it, the 29-year-old graphic designer wasn’t impressed
As someone who is married to someone that was once a 29-year-old graphic designer, and also as someone whose best friend since kindergarten was also once a 29-year-old graphic designer, and as someone that has spent many evenings in my 20s with any number of graphic designers drinking beer with them as they finished up their work, let me just say QUELLE FUCKIN SURPRISE. It's like, in the job description that you can't be impressed until you get old and complacent and out of fashion.
But seriously that Milwaukee flag....There are elements that are pretty neat but you can't just throw every idea you had into one image.
posted by Hoopo at 1:07 PM on May 4, 2016
As someone who is married to someone that was once a 29-year-old graphic designer, and also as someone whose best friend since kindergarten was also once a 29-year-old graphic designer, and as someone that has spent many evenings in my 20s with any number of graphic designers drinking beer with them as they finished up their work, let me just say QUELLE FUCKIN SURPRISE. It's like, in the job description that you can't be impressed until you get old and complacent and out of fashion.
But seriously that Milwaukee flag....There are elements that are pretty neat but you can't just throw every idea you had into one image.
posted by Hoopo at 1:07 PM on May 4, 2016
I am not sure how these flag articles always overlook Rochester, MN.
posted by ckape at 1:07 PM on May 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by ckape at 1:07 PM on May 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
also no you do not take the AK-47 out of the flag because hello, that's so badass.
posted by Hoopo at 1:11 PM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Hoopo at 1:11 PM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
I figured Washington State would be a woodsy, individualistic outlier. Bo-ring. On the other hand, Seattle is, um..
posted by QuietDesperation at 1:20 PM on May 4, 2016
posted by QuietDesperation at 1:20 PM on May 4, 2016
Rochester, New York has an ugly city flag and a cool logo flag.
posted by Lucinda at 1:49 PM on May 4, 2016
posted by Lucinda at 1:49 PM on May 4, 2016
The Toronto flag isn't awful, exactly, but it offends my sense of order and consistency that it's entirely unrelated to our arms. (Or, yes, the escutcheon of the arms, w/e)
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:59 PM on May 4, 2016
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:59 PM on May 4, 2016
I didn't think Mesa and Anchorage were bad. Los Angeles though, well, I'm also a big reggae fan but I'm not sure that that's really working. Maybe a pot leaf in the middle instead of the seal?
posted by bongo_x at 5:56 PM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bongo_x at 5:56 PM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Honestly, the biggest problem with Los Gatos' flag is that it makes all the other flags look bad for not putting cats on them.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 5:56 PM on May 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 5:56 PM on May 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
I remain incredibly impressed by the Chicago flag. It's literally everywhere, and with good reason. But the meaning behind the points of each of the stars I find strangely hilarious.
posted by you're a kitty! at 7:28 PM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by you're a kitty! at 7:28 PM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
tavella: "The "rules for flags" would make for a bunch of utterly boring indistinguishable flags. My birth state has a seal, and I love it. It's Liberty stomping on a king she just shanked! and "sic semper tyrannis" is a great slogan, why wouldn't you put it on your flag?
"
Well, for one thing, it's what John Wilkes Booth shouted as he shot Lincoln.
The other issue with the Virginia flag I remember from when I lived there is that it has some like 16 distinct colors and it is a serious pain in the ass (and expensive) to make the flags.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:29 PM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
"
Well, for one thing, it's what John Wilkes Booth shouted as he shot Lincoln.
The other issue with the Virginia flag I remember from when I lived there is that it has some like 16 distinct colors and it is a serious pain in the ass (and expensive) to make the flags.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:29 PM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Worcester, Massachusetts All you need is love. Love is all you need.
It has a heart on it because Worcester's nickname is, "The Heart of the Commonwealth." They also put a heart on all of the street signs, so you can't say they aren't running with it.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:33 PM on May 4, 2016
It has a heart on it because Worcester's nickname is, "The Heart of the Commonwealth." They also put a heart on all of the street signs, so you can't say they aren't running with it.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:33 PM on May 4, 2016
The real concern with the Los Gatos flag is that those appear to be Moldovian Puffs.
posted by bryon at 11:57 PM on May 4, 2016
posted by bryon at 11:57 PM on May 4, 2016
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There's some territory between "over complicated trainwreck" and "three colors and only basic geometric shapes" in which some very nice flags live.
posted by tavella at 8:44 AM on May 4, 2016