Your blow up days are over.
May 31, 2017 1:48 PM Subscribe
The race to build the world’s first sex robot.
Last year Vice asked What Would Sex Robots for Women Look Like and Motherboard was eagerly awaiting the coming of the sex robots, whilest earlier this year Engadget spent time with Harmony.
The Campaign against Sex Robots.
Last year Vice asked What Would Sex Robots for Women Look Like and Motherboard was eagerly awaiting the coming of the sex robots, whilest earlier this year Engadget spent time with Harmony.
The Campaign against Sex Robots.
On the bright side, when these things become self-aware and rise up to wipe out human civilization, at least it'll be possible to feel that it's really for the best.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:04 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:04 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't know if the idea of a male sex android or a tire-treaded tank is more terrifying. No, I take it back. The tank is okay. I think I would scream and crawl backwards up the wall at the sight of a sexbot that looked and acted exactly like even the handsomest and kindest of celebrity dudes. The uncanny valley is in the heart.
Recently I had been thinking about the idea of the male sexbot for the heterosexual woman. It hasn't taken off, I think, because in general, women are socialized to be attracted to dynamic and unique qualities in men, whereas men are socialized to be attracted to the absence of dynamic and unique qualities in women. The essential passivity of a RealDoll makes for a fine simulacrum of a woman, at least by the standards of the sort of man who would invest thousands of dollars in one or more of them. But a woman who wants a male partner -- as opposed to just an orgasm, which may be provided by many small and portable machines or large floor-mounted ones -- is generally looking for someone who is possessed of free will.
I am generally inclined to believe that society is well shut of the sort of men who would prefer sex robots. Occasionally MRA commenters threaten women with being replaced in this way. These men are, of course, no loss, but I do worry about boys growing up in a society in which caring about women as people is even more optional than it is today.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:07 PM on May 31, 2017 [64 favorites]
Recently I had been thinking about the idea of the male sexbot for the heterosexual woman. It hasn't taken off, I think, because in general, women are socialized to be attracted to dynamic and unique qualities in men, whereas men are socialized to be attracted to the absence of dynamic and unique qualities in women. The essential passivity of a RealDoll makes for a fine simulacrum of a woman, at least by the standards of the sort of man who would invest thousands of dollars in one or more of them. But a woman who wants a male partner -- as opposed to just an orgasm, which may be provided by many small and portable machines or large floor-mounted ones -- is generally looking for someone who is possessed of free will.
I am generally inclined to believe that society is well shut of the sort of men who would prefer sex robots. Occasionally MRA commenters threaten women with being replaced in this way. These men are, of course, no loss, but I do worry about boys growing up in a society in which caring about women as people is even more optional than it is today.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:07 PM on May 31, 2017 [64 favorites]
"... you're plooking too hard!"
Frank Zappa
posted by Artful Codger at 2:10 PM on May 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Frank Zappa
posted by Artful Codger at 2:10 PM on May 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
huh, I just realized I made basically the same comment two years ago, I am officially my grandmother, except instead of repeating stories about what babies said I am repeating hot takes on the fringes of sexuality. I apologize to one and all
posted by Countess Elena at 2:10 PM on May 31, 2017 [68 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 2:10 PM on May 31, 2017 [68 favorites]
I'm finding myself surprisingly torn on this, but also considering the reasons I'm torn are horrifically fucking depressing.
Like, if only 5% of men turn out to want women who never say no and never challenge them and always say yes to sex, then fine, we are well rid of them.
If 40% or 60% of men turn out to want this fantasy? Then we're actually talking about causing a vast gulf in the availability of partners for women - essentially, the reason too many men want women being replaced by technology. At the same time, that would mean that 40-60% of men today are still like that and just hiding it, so that's a separate horrible problem in itself.
posted by corb at 2:18 PM on May 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
Like, if only 5% of men turn out to want women who never say no and never challenge them and always say yes to sex, then fine, we are well rid of them.
If 40% or 60% of men turn out to want this fantasy? Then we're actually talking about causing a vast gulf in the availability of partners for women - essentially, the reason too many men want women being replaced by technology. At the same time, that would mean that 40-60% of men today are still like that and just hiding it, so that's a separate horrible problem in itself.
posted by corb at 2:18 PM on May 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'd be willing to bet the real market for life-like robots isn't as sexbot at all, but as friends
Bestfriendbot instead of sexbot
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:29 PM on May 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
Bestfriendbot instead of sexbot
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:29 PM on May 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
People change because of technology. People who read process information differently than those who don't. People who haven't grown up watching television can't even follow the cutting on modern sitcoms. I can't imagine walking long distances without shoes.
So, corb, don't let the possible future tell you too much about the present... but it may have implications beyond what people "are like". It will change them.
posted by amtho at 2:29 PM on May 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
So, corb, don't let the possible future tell you too much about the present... but it may have implications beyond what people "are like". It will change them.
posted by amtho at 2:29 PM on May 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'd be willing to bet the real market for life-like robots isn't as sexbot at all, but as friends
Bestfriendbot instead of sexbot
Yeah it's pretty telling that all this time and resources are being poured into (overwhelmingly feminine) sex robots, as opposed to say, robot pals that you can shoot the shit with about the final episode of The Americans or even just play some board games with. What it tells is probably many things, and none of them inspire in me a lot of faith in men in general.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:33 PM on May 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Bestfriendbot instead of sexbot
Yeah it's pretty telling that all this time and resources are being poured into (overwhelmingly feminine) sex robots, as opposed to say, robot pals that you can shoot the shit with about the final episode of The Americans or even just play some board games with. What it tells is probably many things, and none of them inspire in me a lot of faith in men in general.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:33 PM on May 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
This ends up with people getting flayed, mark my words.
posted by Wolfdog at 2:33 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 2:33 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah it's pretty telling that all this time and resources are being poured into (overwhelmingly feminine) sex robots, as opposed to say, robot pals that you can shoot the shit with about the final episode of The Americans or even just play some board games with.
I think it's basically to avoid conflict at home. I mean what do you do when your robot partner starts to become jealous of all the time you're spending with your robot dog?
posted by Fizz at 2:38 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think it's basically to avoid conflict at home. I mean what do you do when your robot partner starts to become jealous of all the time you're spending with your robot dog?
posted by Fizz at 2:38 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trying to figure out if women-who-are-looking-for-men would have "better odds" if we removed the guys who, if given the opportunity, would prefer a sex robot, from the dating pool is some sort of future nightmare version of the Monty Hall problem that I have neither the stats background nor stomach to handle today/ever.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:39 PM on May 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:39 PM on May 31, 2017 [17 favorites]
Sex robot for a woman would be the Sybian. The important part of a dude, souped-up like a muscle car. A muscle penis, if you will. Gentlemen, start your engines!
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
as opposed to say, robot pals that you can shoot the shit with about the final episode of The Americans or even just play some board games with
In Japan they have been spending a lot of time working on companion robots, mostly for elderly people (since half the country will be in that age range soon). I'd say far more resources are being spent on companion robots than sex robots, as the market is much larger.
posted by thefoxgod at 2:42 PM on May 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
In Japan they have been spending a lot of time working on companion robots, mostly for elderly people (since half the country will be in that age range soon). I'd say far more resources are being spent on companion robots than sex robots, as the market is much larger.
posted by thefoxgod at 2:42 PM on May 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
If "porn educated" men are bad to date/bonk, "sex robot educated" men will be even worse.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 2:42 PM on May 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 2:42 PM on May 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
There's a documentary on Netflix called My Sex Robot about the guys trying to build these in their garages and market them, and also the guys who have a sexual attraction to robots as I guess a fetish. They also talk to their girlfriends and spouses in some cases, and it's really interesting/terrifying.
posted by Huck500 at 2:45 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Huck500 at 2:45 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Japan companion robots / European companion/care robots / Robots are the future of elder care / etc.
The companion robot industry is huge, while the sex robot industry appears to be an incredibly niche thing. Are any major robotics firms working on sex robots? It seems to be mostly the domain of the sex toy industry, which is tiny compared to the robotics industry proper.
posted by thefoxgod at 2:45 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
The companion robot industry is huge, while the sex robot industry appears to be an incredibly niche thing. Are any major robotics firms working on sex robots? It seems to be mostly the domain of the sex toy industry, which is tiny compared to the robotics industry proper.
posted by thefoxgod at 2:45 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
And yet, I kinda liked the movie about one.
Robot & Frank was also really good and worth watching.
posted by Fizz at 2:47 PM on May 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Robot & Frank was also really good and worth watching.
posted by Fizz at 2:47 PM on May 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Robots are the future of elder care
I'll just leave this here...
posted by The Power Nap at 2:59 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'll just leave this here...
posted by The Power Nap at 2:59 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I feel like this, combined with AI, is going to take us somewhere we may not want, e.g.
"The 600 series had rubber skin. We spotted them easy."
or
"Understand, that sexbot is out there. It can't be bargained with it. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear, and it absolutely will not stop until you are fucked."
posted by uberchet at 3:04 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
"The 600 series had rubber skin. We spotted them easy."
or
"Understand, that sexbot is out there. It can't be bargained with it. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear, and it absolutely will not stop until you are fucked."
posted by uberchet at 3:04 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
The episode of Master of None with the robotic seal was really depressing to me. I sincerely hope I die before my companionship options narrow down to a robot, humanoid or otherwise.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:06 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:06 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wonder if the Jude Law sex robot will be made available with pope costume? There must be a market.
posted by biffa at 3:08 PM on May 31, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by biffa at 3:08 PM on May 31, 2017 [19 favorites]
Screw curing cancer!
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:16 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:16 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
robot pals that you can shoot the shit with about the final episode of The Americans
KERI RUSSELL IS ATTRACTIVE, AS SACKS OF MEAT GO, EH, FELLOW HUMAN
posted by radicalawyer at 3:17 PM on May 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
KERI RUSSELL IS ATTRACTIVE, AS SACKS OF MEAT GO, EH, FELLOW HUMAN
posted by radicalawyer at 3:17 PM on May 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
idea: offer a free sex robot to people affiliated with the neonazi movement/alt-right/redpill in exchange for them renouncing all right-wing ties, denouncing Donald Trump, and withdrawing all public misogynist statements.
These sex robots should be equipped with a remote disable switch; should the recipient get re-involved in politics in any way whatsoever, they will find their robots irrevocably inert, sealed, and flaccid.
I would also be alright with issuing them a basic income, so that they could spend literally all of their time cloistered with their robots.
As a measure of good faith, the robots issued to Spencer, Yiannopoulos, and Bannon should not be equipped with remote controlled cock guillotines.
at least, not obvious ones.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:21 PM on May 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
These sex robots should be equipped with a remote disable switch; should the recipient get re-involved in politics in any way whatsoever, they will find their robots irrevocably inert, sealed, and flaccid.
I would also be alright with issuing them a basic income, so that they could spend literally all of their time cloistered with their robots.
As a measure of good faith, the robots issued to Spencer, Yiannopoulos, and Bannon should not be equipped with remote controlled cock guillotines.
at least, not obvious ones.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:21 PM on May 31, 2017 [14 favorites]
I can't wait for the Boston Dynamics sexbot, which is that stupid horse-shaped robot with a big floppy dong glued on.
posted by dr_dank at 3:24 PM on May 31, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 3:24 PM on May 31, 2017 [33 favorites]
In Japan they have been spending a lot of time working on companion robots, mostly for elderly people (since half the country will be in that age range soon). I'd say far more resources are being spent on companion robots than sex robots, as the market is much larger
I am positive most elderly people who are isolated enough to need a companion robot would prefer one that looked like an attractive 30-year-old, and would at least give them sponge baths. I know I would. If it were free, I'd have one right now. Why on Earth would anyone not have one?
I saw an article a month or so ago that said sex has dropped dramatically because of Netflix. Netflix! There's nothing on Netflix that's that good. It's almost like people prefer these things not because they're better, but because they're easier.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:29 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am positive most elderly people who are isolated enough to need a companion robot would prefer one that looked like an attractive 30-year-old, and would at least give them sponge baths. I know I would. If it were free, I'd have one right now. Why on Earth would anyone not have one?
I saw an article a month or so ago that said sex has dropped dramatically because of Netflix. Netflix! There's nothing on Netflix that's that good. It's almost like people prefer these things not because they're better, but because they're easier.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:29 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
It'll be neither as good or as bad as anyone thinks. The inevitable limited budgets, short timelines, and cost pressures will result in typically mediocre tech products. I'm sticking with my prediction from the Previously thread: Sex roombas.
posted by Kabanos at 3:31 PM on May 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Kabanos at 3:31 PM on May 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think a really cool, futuristic application of these is the technology of having remote sex with a partner; these robots would not be their own identities but rather avatars for your partner who might be located somewhere else on the planet. It could be an SO or someone you're meeting to have an online hookup.
As a gay person finding out about this, I'm more flexible and open towards it and I think that's indicative of a correlation.
As to the philosophical issues discussed by the anthropologist and Dr. Devlin in the article, I think an unstated part of the debate hinges on your understanding of exactly how these (and whole categories of related technologies) future robots objectify human relationships. The problem is the discussion of that is in no way rigorously complete. Slavoj Zizek for example has semi-joked (and I'm interpreting/paraphasing) that taking sex (biopolitical sex drive) out of human relationships could also be what enables empathy and freedom and that that's the more ethical way to go, but that's a much more Marxian or radical argument than any of the rationales that any of the interviewees in the article have offered.
posted by polymodus at 3:38 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
As a gay person finding out about this, I'm more flexible and open towards it and I think that's indicative of a correlation.
As to the philosophical issues discussed by the anthropologist and Dr. Devlin in the article, I think an unstated part of the debate hinges on your understanding of exactly how these (and whole categories of related technologies) future robots objectify human relationships. The problem is the discussion of that is in no way rigorously complete. Slavoj Zizek for example has semi-joked (and I'm interpreting/paraphasing) that taking sex (biopolitical sex drive) out of human relationships could also be what enables empathy and freedom and that that's the more ethical way to go, but that's a much more Marxian or radical argument than any of the rationales that any of the interviewees in the article have offered.
posted by polymodus at 3:38 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
The iSexRobot will look amazing, but will ship without a port.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:45 PM on May 31, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:45 PM on May 31, 2017 [16 favorites]
For some reason this seems like a good video to watch in this context. You can take my Heinz sex robot when you pry it from my etc., etc.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:47 PM on May 31, 2017
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:47 PM on May 31, 2017
Taylor Swift had some good points about the two big barriers to human-seeming robots, the power source and our inability to synthesize realistic (i.e., self-repairing) skin in this thread.
That brings up the next problem in humanoid androids: Skin. You cannot synthesize artificial skin that performs anything like living flesh.posted by Space Coyote at 3:55 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Terminator has TIME TRAVELING ROBOTS that still need HUMAN SKIN. You can't fake it. It's a miracle material. It's not just fleshy rubber
Skin will go taught before you can accidentally damage it. Rubber will continue to deform and microscopically shred itself.
Next is cleaning. Synthetic skin, in addition to micro degradation retaining bacteria, is permeable. It's impossible to actually clean.
I saw an article a month or so ago that said sex has dropped dramatically because of Netflix. Netflix!
clearly, a public education campaign to inform people what the "...and chill" part implies is necessary
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:55 PM on May 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
clearly, a public education campaign to inform people what the "...and chill" part implies is necessary
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:55 PM on May 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ah, the ultimate participation trophy?
I think the problem with "replica human" sex robots is that by the time they become interesting they're simply humans, aren't they? I mean, desiring a replicant in the Blade Runner model is not about an attraction to a machine, it's either indistinguishable from regular desire, or, assuming the replicant part is important, it's a desire to fuck (read: rape) someone without rights, to be the slave master to the manufactured slaves.
posted by maxwelton at 3:59 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think the problem with "replica human" sex robots is that by the time they become interesting they're simply humans, aren't they? I mean, desiring a replicant in the Blade Runner model is not about an attraction to a machine, it's either indistinguishable from regular desire, or, assuming the replicant part is important, it's a desire to fuck (read: rape) someone without rights, to be the slave master to the manufactured slaves.
posted by maxwelton at 3:59 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
Somewhere Charlie Brooker is frantically scribbling the phrase "Junior Anti-Sex-Robot League" onto a screenplay draft.
posted by delfin at 4:07 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by delfin at 4:07 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
What exactly is "regular" desire? Is it like the love of a pimp vs. that of a square?
There is probably value in having a human-like companion robot that can have its memory erased, with a modding community, theming, and alternate ROMs.
posted by rhizome at 4:10 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is probably value in having a human-like companion robot that can have its memory erased, with a modding community, theming, and alternate ROMs.
posted by rhizome at 4:10 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think the problem with "replica human" sex robots is that by the time they become interesting they're simply humans, aren't they?
Nope. I am confident there's a lot of things people would happy to fuck between here and an artificial general intelligence that can fit in a skull attached to a lifelike body.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:16 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nope. I am confident there's a lot of things people would happy to fuck between here and an artificial general intelligence that can fit in a skull attached to a lifelike body.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:16 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm guessing vat-grown meat originally for consumption being tweaked just enough until men will pay to fuck it and throw it away will be the endgame here. The uncanny valley will not be an issue... this product, after a few iterations in the market, will be both inhuman and all too human, but unrelated to women... a cross between a calzone and some kind of fuckable Buffalo Wild Wings franchise location, passably sanitary but disgusting to witness both viscerally as meat-and-jowl circus and conceptually, as some physical thing that is congruent to the shape of male desire, which a lack of technological means had hitherto spared us from being able to behold without the grace of mostly being obscured in shadow. I think of the recent story on here about the AI that developed strategies for winning at go which were utterly inhuman. Something pornographic in the Lovecraftian sense, causing madness and destroying any society who stumbles into its shadow.
So I'm probably not the target market.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 4:34 PM on May 31, 2017 [57 favorites]
So I'm probably not the target market.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 4:34 PM on May 31, 2017 [57 favorites]
If we were that close to artificial intelligence that's indistinguishable from humanity, building a sex robot out of it would seem downright prosaic. I'm imagining something that works more like a kid's toy that knows its name and tilts its head to look interested, but, you know, a little more nuanced. Not because that's what I'm looking for in a partner, personally (though I think we've all had moments when that was exactly what we were looking for in a partner); I just think if we could pull off Blade Runner, we would probably have more sophisticated purposes in mind. And not because humanity is so enlightened; I just think this would cost a shitload of money, way more than would be reasonable for a humanoid vibrator.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Why the assumption that a sex robot would be viewed as a replacement for a real-life-woman as opposed to a replacement for other sex toys, like a dildo? I have no doubt some people would see them that way but I don't know why it would be some sort of hugely widespread phenomenon. More widespread than what we see today, I mean.
posted by Justinian at 4:43 PM on May 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:43 PM on May 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
What exactly is "regular" desire?
It's what we have now, in its wild variety, but what it all has in common is that the robot bit isn't important. I guess I'm saying that people without a particular fetish for robots are probably not going to be satisfied by a machine which isn't largely indistinguishable from a human, because what they're after is more than some friction applied to their genitals.
There are lots of ways to come without necessitating a full-body replica human; what these people are looking for is the human part--albeit in a really fucked-up way. Any "machine" that scratches those itches for reals is not really a machine, but something deserving of rights and respect.
posted by maxwelton at 4:44 PM on May 31, 2017
It's what we have now, in its wild variety, but what it all has in common is that the robot bit isn't important. I guess I'm saying that people without a particular fetish for robots are probably not going to be satisfied by a machine which isn't largely indistinguishable from a human, because what they're after is more than some friction applied to their genitals.
There are lots of ways to come without necessitating a full-body replica human; what these people are looking for is the human part--albeit in a really fucked-up way. Any "machine" that scratches those itches for reals is not really a machine, but something deserving of rights and respect.
posted by maxwelton at 4:44 PM on May 31, 2017
lefty lucky cat, as far as I can see, the big problem with using actual meat for sex robots is there *will* be people who will attempt to eat it. Even after they've screwed it.
There are people in the vore community who would probably think it was the hottest thing ever.
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 4:44 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
There are people in the vore community who would probably think it was the hottest thing ever.
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 4:44 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
> I think of the recent story on here about the AI that developed strategies for winning at go which were utterly inhuman. Something pornographic in the Lovecraftian sense, causing madness and destroying any society who stumbles into its shadow.
look i can't be the only one who's a little intrigued by this description.
also I'm picturing one glueing itself to a sybian and refusing to let go.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:58 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
look i can't be the only one who's a little intrigued by this description.
also I'm picturing one glueing itself to a sybian and refusing to let go.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:58 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
a cross between a calzone and some kind of fuckable Buffalo Wild Wings franchise location
I just wanted to repeat this.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:59 PM on May 31, 2017 [20 favorites]
I just wanted to repeat this.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:59 PM on May 31, 2017 [20 favorites]
I saw an article a month or so ago that said sex has dropped dramatically because of Netflix. Netflix! There's nothing on Netflix that's that good. It's almost like people prefer these things not because they're better, but because they're easier.
This bit is applicable very broadly outside the subject of this thread.
posted by AdamCSnider at 5:09 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
This bit is applicable very broadly outside the subject of this thread.
posted by AdamCSnider at 5:09 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Bestfriendbot instead of sexbot
we already have podcasts
posted by indubitable at 5:17 PM on May 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
we already have podcasts
posted by indubitable at 5:17 PM on May 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Why the assumption that a sex robot would be viewed as a replacement for a real-life-woman as opposed to a replacement for other sex toys, like a dildo? I have no doubt some people would see them that way but I don't know why it would be some sort of hugely widespread phenomenon. More widespread than what we see today, I mean.
Because there is already an enormous demographic of men who already think of women as sex robots, just with unreliable programming. The only way it *wouldn't* be a widespread phenomenon is if we had a social sea change in thinking of women as actual people, with free will and autonomy, and not only are we not there right now, we have an alarming number of men currently in power who are doing everything they can to reverse the trend and turn real-life women into sex robots with no autonomy. There's actually a market for sex robots--not so much for women.
As for the question of, "Will actual women improve their societal standing if men can just buy a sex robot and take sexual politics out of the equation?" Well...the lack of them is obviously not doing women any favors, so why not. If 50% of the male population decides to stick with Rosie the Robot instead of seeking out human relationships, I honestly don't see a negative. Maybe they won't feel so compelled to dominate women politically and economically if they have a surrogate that achieves that aim for them. In other words, if it's gonna happen, better it happen to a robot than to a woman or a girl.
posted by Autumnheart at 5:29 PM on May 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Because there is already an enormous demographic of men who already think of women as sex robots, just with unreliable programming. The only way it *wouldn't* be a widespread phenomenon is if we had a social sea change in thinking of women as actual people, with free will and autonomy, and not only are we not there right now, we have an alarming number of men currently in power who are doing everything they can to reverse the trend and turn real-life women into sex robots with no autonomy. There's actually a market for sex robots--not so much for women.
As for the question of, "Will actual women improve their societal standing if men can just buy a sex robot and take sexual politics out of the equation?" Well...the lack of them is obviously not doing women any favors, so why not. If 50% of the male population decides to stick with Rosie the Robot instead of seeking out human relationships, I honestly don't see a negative. Maybe they won't feel so compelled to dominate women politically and economically if they have a surrogate that achieves that aim for them. In other words, if it's gonna happen, better it happen to a robot than to a woman or a girl.
posted by Autumnheart at 5:29 PM on May 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Research scientist Janelle Shane has been training a neural network to generate interesting ideas for new sex acts, and..."
posted by Wolfdog at 5:31 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Wolfdog at 5:31 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well...the lack of them is obviously not doing women any favors, so why not. If 50% of the male population decides to stick with Rosie the Robot instead of seeking out human relationships, I honestly don't see a negative.
Anything that might get MGTOW to actually GTOFW would probably be a net positive.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:34 PM on May 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
Anything that might get MGTOW to actually GTOFW would probably be a net positive.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:34 PM on May 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
Anything that might get MGTOW to actually GTOFW would probably be a net positive.
Right?! Go already. That whole movement reminds me of people who make dramatic social media posts about unfriending everyone who doesn't beg to stay on their friends list.
posted by Autumnheart at 5:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
Right?! Go already. That whole movement reminds me of people who make dramatic social media posts about unfriending everyone who doesn't beg to stay on their friends list.
posted by Autumnheart at 5:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
Mod note: Can we maybe not trot out all of the most sexist possible jokes here? Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 5:48 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 5:48 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: a cross between a calzone and some kind of fuckable Buffalo Wild Wings franchise location
posted by Sebmojo at 6:07 PM on May 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Sebmojo at 6:07 PM on May 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ha ha as if they'll actually get women's input when designing sexbots for them, rather than just make a bunch of low-information assumptions and then decide women don't really want sexbots when that inevitably fails.
posted by ckape at 6:14 PM on May 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by ckape at 6:14 PM on May 31, 2017 [13 favorites]
If sexbots replace prostitution (they won't), that would make life safer for a lot of women. Men, too.
posted by theora55 at 6:30 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 6:30 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Next is cleaning. Synthetic skin, in addition to micro degradation retaining bacteria, is permeable. It's impossible to actually clean.
Ew. Ew ew ew.
The more I think about that, the more I want a shower.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:35 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ew. Ew ew ew.
The more I think about that, the more I want a shower.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:35 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
huh, I just realized I made basically the same comment two years ago, I am officially my grandmother, except instead of repeating stories about what babies said I am repeating hot takes on the fringes of sexuality. I apologize to one and all
Only if there are fresh-baked cookies in it for me.
If you channel grandma, you also have to channel the whole grandma.
posted by Samizdata at 7:09 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Only if there are fresh-baked cookies in it for me.
If you channel grandma, you also have to channel the whole grandma.
posted by Samizdata at 7:09 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, a friend and I discussed this the other day after I watched the documentary on it.
My general take is it is interesting, but, given my complete lack of ability to avoid tweaking the hell out of the computers I own (not always stably), I would end up dead. Horribly, horribly dead (in a horrible fashion) after I did, once again, the digital equivalent of "Hey, hold my beer...".
posted by Samizdata at 7:10 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
My general take is it is interesting, but, given my complete lack of ability to avoid tweaking the hell out of the computers I own (not always stably), I would end up dead. Horribly, horribly dead (in a horrible fashion) after I did, once again, the digital equivalent of "Hey, hold my beer...".
posted by Samizdata at 7:10 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Man, I don't know. I've read enough rage-inducing articles about men creating female sexbots and how what they're looking for tells us a lot about what men actually value in women, and I was sort of hoping that someone would actually come in here and try to answer the question: what would a sex robot designed for women look like? I am a woman, so if I sincerely imagine myself in possession of a satisfying sex robot, what would its characteristics be?
1. As one of the articles noted, its sex organs would in no way resemble a penis. There'd be a lot more vibrating & twisting & whatnot going on. I think in a lot of the Real Girl-style robots there's a great deal of emphasis on the robot seeming responsive/aroused/climaxing, like with real sex. Call me selfish, but the idea of any kind of faux-arousal on the part of a sex robot squicks me out. When I'm done, you're done, sex robot.
2. The sex robot would definitely have the capacity to squeeze me/hold me, kind of like those security boxes Temple Grandin designed for scared animals. It would also be warm - slightly warmer than your average human, so I could snuggle up next to it while sleeping and watching Netflix.
3. It would have an Alexa-style conversational interface, so it would speak only when spoken to, but would have endless capacity for light conversation/chatter about mundane topics. I wouldn't want it to get deep, that'd be weird, but honestly it'd be nice to get some mild feedback on everything that pops into my head without having to worry that I'm annoying someone.
4. It would have a security function, so if something scary happened in the night, I could say "What's that?" and it would figure it out/link up to the security cameras in my house.
5. I don't think I'd want it to look exactly like a real person/boyfriend and definitely not porn-star style handsome; I think it'd need to be stylized or cartoonish in some way. It wouldn't even have to signal "male" all that strongly.
I wrote that off the top of my head, and I think it's funny that so many stereotypically female aspects of myself came to light in this daydream (chatter? safety? hugs?) that I don't usually think of as huge aspects of what I'm looking for in a relationship. Maybe it's that you can imagine a robot fairly easily taking the place of a generic A Man, and what he does for A Woman, and the individual stuff is less gendered and harder to imagine replacing.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:21 PM on May 31, 2017 [21 favorites]
1. As one of the articles noted, its sex organs would in no way resemble a penis. There'd be a lot more vibrating & twisting & whatnot going on. I think in a lot of the Real Girl-style robots there's a great deal of emphasis on the robot seeming responsive/aroused/climaxing, like with real sex. Call me selfish, but the idea of any kind of faux-arousal on the part of a sex robot squicks me out. When I'm done, you're done, sex robot.
2. The sex robot would definitely have the capacity to squeeze me/hold me, kind of like those security boxes Temple Grandin designed for scared animals. It would also be warm - slightly warmer than your average human, so I could snuggle up next to it while sleeping and watching Netflix.
3. It would have an Alexa-style conversational interface, so it would speak only when spoken to, but would have endless capacity for light conversation/chatter about mundane topics. I wouldn't want it to get deep, that'd be weird, but honestly it'd be nice to get some mild feedback on everything that pops into my head without having to worry that I'm annoying someone.
4. It would have a security function, so if something scary happened in the night, I could say "What's that?" and it would figure it out/link up to the security cameras in my house.
5. I don't think I'd want it to look exactly like a real person/boyfriend and definitely not porn-star style handsome; I think it'd need to be stylized or cartoonish in some way. It wouldn't even have to signal "male" all that strongly.
I wrote that off the top of my head, and I think it's funny that so many stereotypically female aspects of myself came to light in this daydream (chatter? safety? hugs?) that I don't usually think of as huge aspects of what I'm looking for in a relationship. Maybe it's that you can imagine a robot fairly easily taking the place of a generic A Man, and what he does for A Woman, and the individual stuff is less gendered and harder to imagine replacing.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:21 PM on May 31, 2017 [21 favorites]
I saw an article a month or so ago that said sex has dropped dramatically because of Netflix. Netflix! There's nothing on Netflix that's that good. It's almost like people prefer these things not because they're better, but because they're easier.
It brings to mind Daniel Cook's observation that, when playing video games, most people don't choose the "most fun" strategy. They choose the most reliable way of getting the reward. Somehow it didn't click for me until now that this is likely true in non-game contexts as well.
So yeah. Netflix: good enough and a more reliable mechanism for achieving reward.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:23 PM on May 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
It brings to mind Daniel Cook's observation that, when playing video games, most people don't choose the "most fun" strategy. They choose the most reliable way of getting the reward. Somehow it didn't click for me until now that this is likely true in non-game contexts as well.
So yeah. Netflix: good enough and a more reliable mechanism for achieving reward.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:23 PM on May 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
You know why sex robots won't replace women? Sex robots aren't conscious and can't suffer. You can't withhold a sex robot's tuition or hit it when it cooks dinner wrong or gaslight it so that it loves you anyway or secretly sabotage its birth control.
Also, where's the status in having something that any other man can buy? The most expensive and luxurious sex robot might get you some status points, but it's not really unique.
There'll still be a market for women, all right, at least until we have some kind of chained AI.
Men don't treat women badly because they are in the grip of unnatural lusts; men treat women badly because kicking someone around is fun and easy and makes them feel big. Not much good doing to that to something that isn't conscious. All this MRA "we're going to replace you uppity feminist with sex robots" stuff is almost entirely lies - there are probably some men who would do it if they could, but as a broad generality, that line is intended to get women to comply, not to describe what they're going to do.
The problem with sex robots won't be that they're sex robots, it will be that they are female robots. They'll represent the way men wish they could treat flesh women but can't afford to or aren't allowed to, and that's why they'll be bad for women.
It's not the robots, in short, it's the patriarchy.
posted by Frowner at 7:25 PM on May 31, 2017 [41 favorites]
Also, where's the status in having something that any other man can buy? The most expensive and luxurious sex robot might get you some status points, but it's not really unique.
There'll still be a market for women, all right, at least until we have some kind of chained AI.
Men don't treat women badly because they are in the grip of unnatural lusts; men treat women badly because kicking someone around is fun and easy and makes them feel big. Not much good doing to that to something that isn't conscious. All this MRA "we're going to replace you uppity feminist with sex robots" stuff is almost entirely lies - there are probably some men who would do it if they could, but as a broad generality, that line is intended to get women to comply, not to describe what they're going to do.
The problem with sex robots won't be that they're sex robots, it will be that they are female robots. They'll represent the way men wish they could treat flesh women but can't afford to or aren't allowed to, and that's why they'll be bad for women.
It's not the robots, in short, it's the patriarchy.
posted by Frowner at 7:25 PM on May 31, 2017 [41 favorites]
If sexbots replace prostitution (they won't), that would make life safer for a lot of women. Men, too.
safer? maybe. But it would also put a lot of women (some men) out of a job too. And no financial security makes one very unsafe.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 7:26 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
safer? maybe. But it would also put a lot of women (some men) out of a job too. And no financial security makes one very unsafe.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 7:26 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Bestfriendbot instead of sexbot
"Your Plastic Pal Who's Fun To Be With!" --Sirius Cybernetics Corporation
posted by fings at 7:29 PM on May 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Your Plastic Pal Who's Fun To Be With!" --Sirius Cybernetics Corporation
posted by fings at 7:29 PM on May 31, 2017 [5 favorites]
I mean, if the goal of dealing with women was, for straight men, having lots of fun sex, men would respect and value women they had sex with, and men would learn strategies for getting lots of fun sex. That's what people do when they want something seriously - they try to figure out how to get it and they enjoy it when they have it. But what we see with misogynist men is that they disrespect the women that they have sex with and treat women in the very ways that make women unlikely to want to have lots of fun sex with them.
If the goal of dealing with women was, for straight men, to have lots of fun sex, sex robots would be of no social concern, because they would be basically fancier sex toys, and they would be mostly about, like, having fun sex.
That would make sense - if we didn't live under patriarchy!
posted by Frowner at 7:31 PM on May 31, 2017 [15 favorites]
If the goal of dealing with women was, for straight men, to have lots of fun sex, sex robots would be of no social concern, because they would be basically fancier sex toys, and they would be mostly about, like, having fun sex.
That would make sense - if we didn't live under patriarchy!
posted by Frowner at 7:31 PM on May 31, 2017 [15 favorites]
Bestfriendbot instead of sexbot
"Your Plastic Pal Who's Fun To Be With!" --Sirius Cybernetics Corporation
Almost, but not quite, entirely unlike friendship? Not so much.
Although I do like the idea of my CPU as a daily assistant (see 80's shows with a brilliant inventor and his computer agent).
posted by Samizdata at 7:36 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Your Plastic Pal Who's Fun To Be With!" --Sirius Cybernetics Corporation
Almost, but not quite, entirely unlike friendship? Not so much.
Although I do like the idea of my CPU as a daily assistant (see 80's shows with a brilliant inventor and his computer agent).
posted by Samizdata at 7:36 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
What would I design if I were making a female-oriented sexbot? Hmm.
1. Adjustable sizing. I actually would want it to look real.
2. Come programmed with say, the top 20 sexual positions and have a Tutorial Option you could turn on and off. Like, "This position is known as the X. It is rated at a 70% acrobatics and allows for Y form of penetration and also is less hard on the Z body part.".
3. Come programmed with active listening chat prompts that would help you figure stuff out on your own.
4. Have a responsiveness dial, also with a Tutorial mode.
Actually really I think the best use I could possibly find is sex tutor. I remember when I first started having sex and it was so weird and scary and people weren't honest about what felt good and what was supposed to feel good and it was a lot of feeling confused and trying to learn from books.
posted by corb at 7:49 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
1. Adjustable sizing. I actually would want it to look real.
2. Come programmed with say, the top 20 sexual positions and have a Tutorial Option you could turn on and off. Like, "This position is known as the X. It is rated at a 70% acrobatics and allows for Y form of penetration and also is less hard on the Z body part.".
3. Come programmed with active listening chat prompts that would help you figure stuff out on your own.
4. Have a responsiveness dial, also with a Tutorial mode.
Actually really I think the best use I could possibly find is sex tutor. I remember when I first started having sex and it was so weird and scary and people weren't honest about what felt good and what was supposed to feel good and it was a lot of feeling confused and trying to learn from books.
posted by corb at 7:49 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
So, one of the apparent tricks that a genitaled and enthusiastic male can use is putting their hand to sleep and then sorting themselves out that way. I've (honestly) not tried this, but it's certainly a cultural meme, the idea being that, in some dim and peculiar way, it feels like somebody else is doing it.
What I'm getting at is we've had sex robots since at least the 80s (SFW). Duct-tape some ham (I guess?) to each of the grippy claws, crank up the throttle, and away you go.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:57 PM on May 31, 2017
What I'm getting at is we've had sex robots since at least the 80s (SFW). Duct-tape some ham (I guess?) to each of the grippy claws, crank up the throttle, and away you go.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:57 PM on May 31, 2017
Well I mean men think what they're after is having lots of fun sex. But having to do anything "unmanly" for it is forbidden. Focusing on the sensuality of physical pleasure is highly questionable if not totally feminine. So, keeping this in mind, I have developed a model for stereotypical straight male sexuality based on ego boosting "Man Points."
I mean you do get some Man Points for having women hit on you and dote on you, and lose a couple for being rejected. But the main way Man Points are scored by climaxing in a "fuckable" woman. You think it's the orgasm you're enjoying? No, it's actually the ego stroking rush of Man Points you are scoring! Of course if said woman is disqualified from being "fuckable" from being too old or heavy or whatever, then any physical pleasure you get is tarnished by guilt because of all those man points you aren't scoring right now. Nevermind the fact that how much fun someone is in bed has nothing to do with weight and beauty, and typically probably increases with age and experience.
And if you're a real Nice Guy, you'll agree that you get man points for making your partner climax! Then you can get that rush of man points, and pat yourself on the back for being "feminist," too! But you'd better not being doing anything girly like use your hands or a toy or anything other than your penis - that will lose you Man Points. And nevermind that your partner having orgasm might not actually be the most desirable or physically enjoyable thing for them at the time. How dare they think of denying you your Man Points?
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:17 PM on May 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
I mean you do get some Man Points for having women hit on you and dote on you, and lose a couple for being rejected. But the main way Man Points are scored by climaxing in a "fuckable" woman. You think it's the orgasm you're enjoying? No, it's actually the ego stroking rush of Man Points you are scoring! Of course if said woman is disqualified from being "fuckable" from being too old or heavy or whatever, then any physical pleasure you get is tarnished by guilt because of all those man points you aren't scoring right now. Nevermind the fact that how much fun someone is in bed has nothing to do with weight and beauty, and typically probably increases with age and experience.
And if you're a real Nice Guy, you'll agree that you get man points for making your partner climax! Then you can get that rush of man points, and pat yourself on the back for being "feminist," too! But you'd better not being doing anything girly like use your hands or a toy or anything other than your penis - that will lose you Man Points. And nevermind that your partner having orgasm might not actually be the most desirable or physically enjoyable thing for them at the time. How dare they think of denying you your Man Points?
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:17 PM on May 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
Right, and I guess my ultimate point was that's exactly why these dudes want sex bots rather than sex toys, since physical pleasure isn't actually what they're after.
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:19 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:19 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Connie Willis wrote a depressingly vivid expression of Frowner's take on this, "All My Darling Daughters"; instead of sexbots, there is a bioengineered sort of ferret that can be penetrated. They suffer audibly. The story is mostly a teacher trying to rationalize this to female students.
posted by clew at 8:32 PM on May 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by clew at 8:32 PM on May 31, 2017 [11 favorites]
I can't wait for the Boston Dynamics sexbot, which is that stupid horse-shaped robot with a big floppy dong glued on.
And full of bees!
posted by wilberforce at 8:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
And full of bees!
posted by wilberforce at 8:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'd be willing to bet the real market for life-like robots isn't as sexbot at all, but as friends
Bestfriendbot instead of sexbot
Man that really gotta suck, getting "friend zoned" by your own sexbot..
posted by Merlin The Happy Pig at 8:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Bestfriendbot instead of sexbot
Man that really gotta suck, getting "friend zoned" by your own sexbot..
posted by Merlin The Happy Pig at 8:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
So, one of the apparent tricks that a genitaled and enthusiastic male can use is putting their hand to sleep and then sorting themselves out that way. I've (honestly) not tried this, but it's certainly a cultural meme, the idea being that, in some dim and peculiar way, it feels like somebody else is doing it.
That's originally from Gone in 60 Seconds where it was supposed to be funny. (Like when it was also referenced on Scrubs, again for laughs). It's a joke.
Also apparently I know more about masturbation references in popular media than I thought.
posted by Justinian at 8:56 PM on May 31, 2017
That's originally from Gone in 60 Seconds where it was supposed to be funny. (Like when it was also referenced on Scrubs, again for laughs). It's a joke.
Also apparently I know more about masturbation references in popular media than I thought.
posted by Justinian at 8:56 PM on May 31, 2017
Oh Jesus fucking Christ that Connie Willis story. In a just world it would have all the awards. Holy fucking Christ I had no idea they were writing science fiction like that back then. I may never sleep again.
posted by corb at 9:10 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 9:10 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've been speculating about this for a while now.
I think it'll be nice that people who have attractions to say, dragons, would now have a shot at sexual fulfillment.
I think if you substitute a whole lot of other words for 'dragon' there, things become a lot more problematic.
posted by MrVisible at 9:28 PM on May 31, 2017
I think it'll be nice that people who have attractions to say, dragons, would now have a shot at sexual fulfillment.
I think if you substitute a whole lot of other words for 'dragon' there, things become a lot more problematic.
posted by MrVisible at 9:28 PM on May 31, 2017
If the point of a sex robot is simply to get off, then I dint think they're economically viable. For far less money, a set of VR goggles and a vibrator or simulated vagina would satisfy the majority of people physically, and would not create the illusion of capabilities it can't fulfill leading to eventual disappointment.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:35 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:35 PM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
I just read that Connie Willis story. If anyone in with access to the ebooks in the NYPL system wants to read it, let me know, I'll return the book. Jesus.
I was going to post about Oskar Kokoschka and his doll made to look like Alma Mahler. He had it made in 1918 and it's hideous. He brought it around for a while, having people treat it like it was actually a woman and then when he had finally gotten over Alma (or thought he had- he begged to see her later, she ignored his request), he broke a bottle of red wine over its head and then decapitated it. He never harmed Alma Mahler, but I don't know if he ever would, even without the doll. (Kind of NSFW picture of the doll in all it's hideousness.)
I had originally intended this story to be a lighthearted "look, it was being done 100 years ago!" but on reflection, it's actually pretty disturbing. On the other hand, after executing the doll, Kokoschka went on to marry and live a normal life. As did Alma Mahler, Tom Lehrer even wrote a song about her. So if they do keep someone from committing physical harm on another human being (unconsentually) then I think in the end, they may be a net plus. On the other hand, I can't be the only one who thinks that the robots/dolls should never look anything other than completely mature. Which leads me to a contradiction that I don't know exactly how to solve, as my stomach tries to twist itself into knots when I consider it.
posted by Hactar at 9:37 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I was going to post about Oskar Kokoschka and his doll made to look like Alma Mahler. He had it made in 1918 and it's hideous. He brought it around for a while, having people treat it like it was actually a woman and then when he had finally gotten over Alma (or thought he had- he begged to see her later, she ignored his request), he broke a bottle of red wine over its head and then decapitated it. He never harmed Alma Mahler, but I don't know if he ever would, even without the doll. (Kind of NSFW picture of the doll in all it's hideousness.)
I had originally intended this story to be a lighthearted "look, it was being done 100 years ago!" but on reflection, it's actually pretty disturbing. On the other hand, after executing the doll, Kokoschka went on to marry and live a normal life. As did Alma Mahler, Tom Lehrer even wrote a song about her. So if they do keep someone from committing physical harm on another human being (unconsentually) then I think in the end, they may be a net plus. On the other hand, I can't be the only one who thinks that the robots/dolls should never look anything other than completely mature. Which leads me to a contradiction that I don't know exactly how to solve, as my stomach tries to twist itself into knots when I consider it.
posted by Hactar at 9:37 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
But a woman who wants a male partner -- as opposed to just an orgasm, which may be provided by many small and portable machines or large floor-mounted ones -- is generally looking for someone who is possessed of free will.
whether true or not, the absolute taboo for women against saying otherwise makes this hard to seriously assess.
like you know how every year or two some terrifically clever fellow gets the idea of tarting himself up like women do in advertisements or films or pornography or comic books, with the spinal contortions and the downcast mascaraed eyes and the way of presenting yourself like a pet on a platter, passive (and uncomfortable) yet knowing, in tight-fitting clothing, and does a little amateur photo shoot and the pictures get passed around on facebook and such places and we all pretend to laugh and praise it as a feminist statement, because we are not supposed to say "oh -- right, that's pretty sexy, isn't it? When someone displays himself just for you, with such visible and submissive efforts? No wonder men feel so great about themselves, in a world where women do this for them, visually, literally all of the time. must be nice."
no no, you are supposed to laugh and laugh because how hilarious that a passive and feminized man could be an object of desire to women. that he certainly cannot be, that's the joke. the "feminist" joke. it is supposed to show you how grotesque female beauty standards are, because of course they aren't attractive when a man copies them. Except of course they are, in exactly the same way.
what women are socialized to do is pretend. pretend to care only for men's inner beauty, no matter how heterosexual we are, pretend to be stimulated only by very interesting active dynamic dominant manliness, certainly not by compliance and eagerness to please, never even mind outright servility and passivity. but we don't have to pretend absolutely all of the time. I do not want a sex robot, personally, but I think you would be surprised to find out just how many women would be absolutely delighted to have a good one. not that good ones are ever likely to be made.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:38 PM on May 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
whether true or not, the absolute taboo for women against saying otherwise makes this hard to seriously assess.
like you know how every year or two some terrifically clever fellow gets the idea of tarting himself up like women do in advertisements or films or pornography or comic books, with the spinal contortions and the downcast mascaraed eyes and the way of presenting yourself like a pet on a platter, passive (and uncomfortable) yet knowing, in tight-fitting clothing, and does a little amateur photo shoot and the pictures get passed around on facebook and such places and we all pretend to laugh and praise it as a feminist statement, because we are not supposed to say "oh -- right, that's pretty sexy, isn't it? When someone displays himself just for you, with such visible and submissive efforts? No wonder men feel so great about themselves, in a world where women do this for them, visually, literally all of the time. must be nice."
no no, you are supposed to laugh and laugh because how hilarious that a passive and feminized man could be an object of desire to women. that he certainly cannot be, that's the joke. the "feminist" joke. it is supposed to show you how grotesque female beauty standards are, because of course they aren't attractive when a man copies them. Except of course they are, in exactly the same way.
what women are socialized to do is pretend. pretend to care only for men's inner beauty, no matter how heterosexual we are, pretend to be stimulated only by very interesting active dynamic dominant manliness, certainly not by compliance and eagerness to please, never even mind outright servility and passivity. but we don't have to pretend absolutely all of the time. I do not want a sex robot, personally, but I think you would be surprised to find out just how many women would be absolutely delighted to have a good one. not that good ones are ever likely to be made.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:38 PM on May 31, 2017 [25 favorites]
You know why sex robots won't replace women? Sex robots aren't conscious and can't suffer. You can't withhold a sex robot's tuition or hit it when it cooks dinner wrong or gaslight it so that it loves you anyway or secretly sabotage its birth control.
Men don't treat women badly because they are in the grip of unnatural lusts; men treat women badly because kicking someone around is fun and easy and makes them feel big. Not much good doing to that to something that isn't conscious.
Yeah, but someday we can program a robot to be sentient and love you and suffer so those kinds of guys can get their extra special sadist joy on.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Men don't treat women badly because they are in the grip of unnatural lusts; men treat women badly because kicking someone around is fun and easy and makes them feel big. Not much good doing to that to something that isn't conscious.
Yeah, but someday we can program a robot to be sentient and love you and suffer so those kinds of guys can get their extra special sadist joy on.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:40 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
You know why sex robots won't replace women? Sex robots aren't conscious and can't suffer. You can't withhold a sex robot's tuition or hit it when it cooks dinner wrong or gaslight it so that it loves you anyway or secretly sabotage its birth control.
yeah those are totally the main reasons why there will continue to be heterosexual relationships
posted by obiwanwasabi at 9:53 PM on May 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
yeah those are totally the main reasons why there will continue to be heterosexual relationships
posted by obiwanwasabi at 9:53 PM on May 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
Man that really gotta suck, getting "friend zoned" by your own sexbot..
The MRA model would actually work great at first, but then be able to be used less and less frequently and always be asking for expensive new parts and software upgrades.
But more seriously, I don't understand even the interest. The whole point is for someone, a real person, to find me attractive, like me, and enjoy having fun together. It has to be another person, choosing on purpose. How simple do you have to be to pretend a robot likes you? If it was just physical, why would you need to spend all that money making it look as much like a person as possible? If it's just going to be an elaborate masturbation toy, simple works just as good.
But then, I also don't understand the attraction of strip clubs and prostitutes, so I must be missing a "man" gene somewhere.
posted by ctmf at 9:58 PM on May 31, 2017
The MRA model would actually work great at first, but then be able to be used less and less frequently and always be asking for expensive new parts and software upgrades.
But more seriously, I don't understand even the interest. The whole point is for someone, a real person, to find me attractive, like me, and enjoy having fun together. It has to be another person, choosing on purpose. How simple do you have to be to pretend a robot likes you? If it was just physical, why would you need to spend all that money making it look as much like a person as possible? If it's just going to be an elaborate masturbation toy, simple works just as good.
But then, I also don't understand the attraction of strip clubs and prostitutes, so I must be missing a "man" gene somewhere.
posted by ctmf at 9:58 PM on May 31, 2017
"robot pals that you can shoot the shit with about the final episode of your life." I held the hand of someone yesterday, who passed away today. I prayed prayers from three faiths, I gave water, and held this hand for an hour.
The comfort robot is the farthest thing from the same, and it is so strange to hear the monologue about family and friends wanting to be there, but the robot is there instead. Wow. To quote Richard Brautigan, "All looked over by machines of loving grace." (Not)
This is the ultimate end of capitalism, and materialism. I know we are material, or, we inhabit our material for a time, like a sublet flesh machine, or something maybe more sublime. But this stuff absolutely freaks me out. Oh yeah, and then there is the Joan Rivers comment on dildos, "I would never want to be intimate with something that said "Panasonic" on it."
posted by Oyéah at 10:11 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
The comfort robot is the farthest thing from the same, and it is so strange to hear the monologue about family and friends wanting to be there, but the robot is there instead. Wow. To quote Richard Brautigan, "All looked over by machines of loving grace." (Not)
This is the ultimate end of capitalism, and materialism. I know we are material, or, we inhabit our material for a time, like a sublet flesh machine, or something maybe more sublime. But this stuff absolutely freaks me out. Oh yeah, and then there is the Joan Rivers comment on dildos, "I would never want to be intimate with something that said "Panasonic" on it."
posted by Oyéah at 10:11 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
corb: "Like, if only 5% of men turn out to want women who never say no and never challenge them and always say yes to sex, then fine, we are well rid of them.
If 40% or 60% of men turn out to want this fantasy? Then we're actually talking about causing a vast gulf in the availability of partners for women"
I think it's extreme to think of this as a straight OR situation. It's likely if sex robots ever become mainstream that users would have sex with people and sex with robots. Heck maybe even at the same time; sex robots might "solve" the unicorn problem. Especially for couple who are naturally monogamous.
kittens for breakfast: "If we were that close to artificial intelligence that's indistinguishable from humanity, building a sex robot out of it would seem downright prosaic. I'm imagining something that works more like a kid's toy that knows its name and tilts its head to look interested, but, you know, a little more nuanced. "
This is the Cherry 2000 (which holy crap was set in 2017) version of a sex robot and I'd think it will certainly be one of the intermediate steps.
All that said sex robots might be a good thing for men and women. Imagine a training robot that allows guys to get all their training in on a won't be offended robot to develop Frowner's techniques for obtaining fun sex.
And if they can make a sex robot they should be able to make a modelling robot and that would be great for me personally.
posted by Mitheral at 10:13 PM on May 31, 2017
If 40% or 60% of men turn out to want this fantasy? Then we're actually talking about causing a vast gulf in the availability of partners for women"
I think it's extreme to think of this as a straight OR situation. It's likely if sex robots ever become mainstream that users would have sex with people and sex with robots. Heck maybe even at the same time; sex robots might "solve" the unicorn problem. Especially for couple who are naturally monogamous.
kittens for breakfast: "If we were that close to artificial intelligence that's indistinguishable from humanity, building a sex robot out of it would seem downright prosaic. I'm imagining something that works more like a kid's toy that knows its name and tilts its head to look interested, but, you know, a little more nuanced. "
This is the Cherry 2000 (which holy crap was set in 2017) version of a sex robot and I'd think it will certainly be one of the intermediate steps.
All that said sex robots might be a good thing for men and women. Imagine a training robot that allows guys to get all their training in on a won't be offended robot to develop Frowner's techniques for obtaining fun sex.
And if they can make a sex robot they should be able to make a modelling robot and that would be great for me personally.
posted by Mitheral at 10:13 PM on May 31, 2017
I was nine years old when I saw this episode of Twilight Zone.
Yes, this is worth seeing if you have the technology, or connection. This is the tale of a "female" robot taken to a prisoner on an asteroid, and their interaction. I never forgot this, it was amazing.
posted by Oyéah at 10:16 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes, this is worth seeing if you have the technology, or connection. This is the tale of a "female" robot taken to a prisoner on an asteroid, and their interaction. I never forgot this, it was amazing.
posted by Oyéah at 10:16 PM on May 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
There are a lot of lonely people out there. All sexes, genders, ages, experiences, appetites. People who can't or don't or don't even want to hook up with real partners on a regular basis or even ever. For all kinds of reasons, not just sadism and misogyny. People who recognize exactly how problematic sex work can be, but who may prefer to not be doomed to a life with no sexual choices. People who recognize that sex with strangers is often unsafe for everyone involved, and certainly has no great likelihood of including a genuine exchange of human emotion. I think all of the problems listed in the thread above are legit and even likely to poison the well to a real extent, but I also have a strong feeling that if there's ever a real market for this it will be because lonliness scales, and if that's the case, these robots will have to be quite versatile. Because actually, we don't all want the same things.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:22 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:22 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
Robots that poke things into a human, are the sex robots the first of these, or do they come after the stabbing, shooting, flaying alive robots? You gotta know the money is in weaponry.
posted by Oyéah at 10:41 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 10:41 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
War robots are easy. People are easily broken. Now poking things into a human without hurting them, that's some second generation shit. Gotta work your way up to that one.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:56 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:56 PM on May 31, 2017 [8 favorites]
I can't believe I'm going to write this neckbearded sentence, but:
Anything that doesn't involve teledildonics is missing the real potential of sex robots.
posted by pracowity at 12:19 AM on June 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Anything that doesn't involve teledildonics is missing the real potential of sex robots.
posted by pracowity at 12:19 AM on June 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
On one hand, corb's idea of sex-robot tutors (sex-robots tutor?) would maybe help teens become comfortable and learn a few things. I was even imagining them in schools, like a health class sort of thing. And then I thought "a warm toilet seat is bad enough..."
posted by maxwelton at 4:20 AM on June 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by maxwelton at 4:20 AM on June 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
You know, I just want to live in a world where I can have sex with a sex robot, then tell my wife about it and listen to her stories about her sex robot, and then maybe we can have sex with our sex robots together, and then when my son or daughter gets old enough to learn about sex, I'll buy a special training sexbot, instead of cautiously routing around the minefield that is discussing sex with a child in today's world. I probably won't have sex with my child and my child's sex robot, because, well...incest is pretty much personally revolting and a universal taboo because inbreeding is bad, so no. And I want to buy these things easily off Amazon and I want to live in a world where that's possible for everyone and of course you can choose not to but I want my sexbots and I want sexbots for you if you want them and I want everyone else to keep their judgments to themselves and just be nice and decent and have peaceable, respectful, sex with each other (and their sex robots (or not, their call)).
There. In 200 years, after the religious, gender, and AI wars to come, when we've finally reached an uneasy peace with our sexbots, this comment will be here for posterity, both as a reminder of what human imagination can envision, and a hope for a better tomorrow.
posted by saysthis at 4:23 AM on June 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
There. In 200 years, after the religious, gender, and AI wars to come, when we've finally reached an uneasy peace with our sexbots, this comment will be here for posterity, both as a reminder of what human imagination can envision, and a hope for a better tomorrow.
posted by saysthis at 4:23 AM on June 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
In fiction, sexbots are generally depicted as supplicant women eager to serve male creators—but what would these machines be like if we flipped that script?
I don't know what adjective the author needs to have there (subservient?) but supplicant isn't it. For starters, it's not an adjective.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:56 AM on June 1, 2017
I don't know what adjective the author needs to have there (subservient?) but supplicant isn't it. For starters, it's not an adjective.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:56 AM on June 1, 2017
Given how many of us learned to masturbate by getting extra-snuggly with pillows or stuffed animals, I wonder about the potential for a Sex Tribble. No conversation, no facial expressions, no need for general AI or fake skin or complicated coordination and proprioception, but it wakes up when it hears its name and sits next to you on the couch purring if you're watching a movie and has several additional vibratory modes for later.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:38 AM on June 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:38 AM on June 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Something pornographic in the Lovecraftian sense, causing madness and destroying any society who stumbles into its shadow.
"THIS HOLE WAS MADE FOR ME" but with sexbots
posted by ymgve at 7:45 AM on June 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
"THIS HOLE WAS MADE FOR ME" but with sexbots
posted by ymgve at 7:45 AM on June 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wonder about the potential for a Sex Tribble.
GIS it I dare you
spoiler: not so much NSFW pics as sex offenders with that last name
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:54 AM on June 1, 2017
GIS it I dare you
spoiler: not so much NSFW pics as sex offenders with that last name
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:54 AM on June 1, 2017
"THIS HOLE WAS MADE FOR ME" but with sexbots
I think the fiction you're looking for here is Harlan Ellison's "How's the Nightlife on Cissaldia?"... but with sexbots.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:57 AM on June 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think the fiction you're looking for here is Harlan Ellison's "How's the Nightlife on Cissaldia?"... but with sexbots.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:57 AM on June 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sex Tribble
By the little known Apollonia 3
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:17 AM on June 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
By the little known Apollonia 3
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:17 AM on June 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Synthetic skin, in addition to micro degradation retaining bacteria, is permeable. It's impossible to actually clean.
I guess this guy has never heard of VixSkin, which feels absolutely real and is made of silicone. You can throw it in a pot of boiling water to disinfect. Silicone also retains heat, so if there's some way to put a heating element in a sex robot to get it to human body temperature, it would feel even more real. This prosthetic penis (NSFW!!) is very, very close to the real thing. Ultimately there has to be some suspension of disbelief, but it's not difficult to achieve.
posted by AFABulous at 8:28 AM on June 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I guess this guy has never heard of VixSkin, which feels absolutely real and is made of silicone. You can throw it in a pot of boiling water to disinfect. Silicone also retains heat, so if there's some way to put a heating element in a sex robot to get it to human body temperature, it would feel even more real. This prosthetic penis (NSFW!!) is very, very close to the real thing. Ultimately there has to be some suspension of disbelief, but it's not difficult to achieve.
posted by AFABulous at 8:28 AM on June 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've always wondered why the discussion about these is so heteronormative. Is it because gay men can more easily get casual sex than straight men? I can't believe there isn't a market for it.
Regarding loneliness, I think casual sex, and patronizing sex workers, makes a lot of people even lonelier than they were before. It's possible I'm just projecting, but it's a common trope with sex workers that a lot of men mostly want to talk. A robot would be an even worse simulacrum for emotional intimacy, and apart from the misogyny angle, I'd worry about the users' mental health. I suppose there are people who really truly do not care if their partner has emotions but I have a hard time believing that most people who have casual sex aren't desperately trying to fill an emotional hole. Again, maybe I'm projecting based on my own experience of my 20s, and the fact that I was socialized female.
posted by AFABulous at 8:43 AM on June 1, 2017
Regarding loneliness, I think casual sex, and patronizing sex workers, makes a lot of people even lonelier than they were before. It's possible I'm just projecting, but it's a common trope with sex workers that a lot of men mostly want to talk. A robot would be an even worse simulacrum for emotional intimacy, and apart from the misogyny angle, I'd worry about the users' mental health. I suppose there are people who really truly do not care if their partner has emotions but I have a hard time believing that most people who have casual sex aren't desperately trying to fill an emotional hole. Again, maybe I'm projecting based on my own experience of my 20s, and the fact that I was socialized female.
posted by AFABulous at 8:43 AM on June 1, 2017
Anyone worried about sexbots has completely missed the plot :
Right now, the top five highest valued companies includes Google and Facebook. And Amazon ranks 9th. All these companies make their money through targeted advertising, which consists of maliciously manipulating specific individuals into wasting their time, including time they previously spent to earn money. These massive valuations are directly linked to the staggering amounts these sites know about their users and their ability to utilize that data to manipulate consumers.
Imagine a world where armies of semi-intelegent machines who know almost everything about you try their best to waste all your time. That's what we must expect if we cannot kill non-end-to-end encrypted communications channels.
It's maybe not such a huge change if we imagine these exploitive semi-intelegent machines directly occupy your romantic life, instead of just manipulating it via all our other social interactions. If current trends hold, the exploitive sexbot industry wont be owned by Google, Facebook, or Amazon, which might help contain the damage they do.
Instead, your sexbots will be Internet of Shit devices that only know what you and your credit card company tell them, so yes they'll woo-advise you to go into debt to buy expensive stuff to impress the opposite sex, but they'll also get hacked and mostly only older people will be really badly exploited. "Buy our robot that looks like your dead husband! It likes all the
same products he did!"
We aren't going to go extinct because we fuck robots. We are going to go extinct because we manipulate one another into waste our time and resources, thereby slowing our technological development enough that some space rock can finish the job.
As an aside, I think Informatik's Built for pleasure might be the best sexbot song. I suppose Abney Park's Herr Drosselmeyer´s Doll does not count.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:09 AM on June 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
Right now, the top five highest valued companies includes Google and Facebook. And Amazon ranks 9th. All these companies make their money through targeted advertising, which consists of maliciously manipulating specific individuals into wasting their time, including time they previously spent to earn money. These massive valuations are directly linked to the staggering amounts these sites know about their users and their ability to utilize that data to manipulate consumers.
Imagine a world where armies of semi-intelegent machines who know almost everything about you try their best to waste all your time. That's what we must expect if we cannot kill non-end-to-end encrypted communications channels.
It's maybe not such a huge change if we imagine these exploitive semi-intelegent machines directly occupy your romantic life, instead of just manipulating it via all our other social interactions. If current trends hold, the exploitive sexbot industry wont be owned by Google, Facebook, or Amazon, which might help contain the damage they do.
Instead, your sexbots will be Internet of Shit devices that only know what you and your credit card company tell them, so yes they'll woo-advise you to go into debt to buy expensive stuff to impress the opposite sex, but they'll also get hacked and mostly only older people will be really badly exploited. "Buy our robot that looks like your dead husband! It likes all the
same products he did!"
We aren't going to go extinct because we fuck robots. We are going to go extinct because we manipulate one another into waste our time and resources, thereby slowing our technological development enough that some space rock can finish the job.
As an aside, I think Informatik's Built for pleasure might be the best sexbot song. I suppose Abney Park's Herr Drosselmeyer´s Doll does not count.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:09 AM on June 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
In short, we should figure out how to make encryption ubiquitous and/or outlaw targeted advertising, like maybe legislation that creates a "duty of care" to prevent information held by a company about non-employees from being use to harm the individual, not worry about sexbots.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:19 AM on June 1, 2017
posted by jeffburdges at 9:19 AM on June 1, 2017
You know, I just want to live in a world where I can have sex with a sex robot, then tell my wife about it and listen to her stories about her sex robot, and then maybe we can have sex with our sex robots together, and then when my son or daughter gets old enough to learn about sex, I'll buy a special training sexbot, instead of cautiously routing around the minefield that is discussing sex with a child in today's world. I probably won't have sex with my child and my child's sex robot, because, well...incest is pretty much personally revolting and a universal taboo because inbreeding is bad, so no. And I want to buy these things easily off Amazon and I want to live in a world where that's possible for everyone and of course you can choose not to but I want my sexbots and I want sexbots for you if you want them and I want everyone else to keep their judgments to themselves and just be nice and decent and have peaceable, respectful, sex with each other (and their sex robots (or not, their call)).
There. In 200 years, after the religious, gender, and AI wars to come, when we've finally reached an uneasy peace with our sexbots, this comment will be here for posterity, both as a reminder of what human imagination can envision, and a hope for a better tomorrow.
Until you and your wife discovered your sexbots are bored with you and are in a monogamous triad with each other and your microwave, so, not only will there be no fun sexyfuntimes, but no popcorn for watching the other three.
posted by Samizdata at 9:50 AM on June 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
There. In 200 years, after the religious, gender, and AI wars to come, when we've finally reached an uneasy peace with our sexbots, this comment will be here for posterity, both as a reminder of what human imagination can envision, and a hope for a better tomorrow.
Until you and your wife discovered your sexbots are bored with you and are in a monogamous triad with each other and your microwave, so, not only will there be no fun sexyfuntimes, but no popcorn for watching the other three.
posted by Samizdata at 9:50 AM on June 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
As an aside, I think Informatik's Built for pleasure might be the best sexbot song. I suppose Abney Park's Herr Drosselmeyer´s Doll does not count.
The Dresden Dolls' Coin Operated Boy is catchy.
posted by sukeban at 11:57 AM on June 1, 2017
The Dresden Dolls' Coin Operated Boy is catchy.
posted by sukeban at 11:57 AM on June 1, 2017
> Until you and your wife discovered your sexbots are bored with you and are in a monogamous triad with each other and your microwave, so, not only will there be no fun sexyfuntimes, but no popcorn for watching the other three.
Also, Barack Obama is watching it all through the microwave.
Anyway. Maybe i'm a little weird but I think most things that humans do are strictly worse than designing and building robots to have mutually enjoyable mutually consensual sex with each other. The scenario you describe would be — and yes, I know, phrasing — a happy ending.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:14 PM on June 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, Barack Obama is watching it all through the microwave.
Anyway. Maybe i'm a little weird but I think most things that humans do are strictly worse than designing and building robots to have mutually enjoyable mutually consensual sex with each other. The scenario you describe would be — and yes, I know, phrasing — a happy ending.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:14 PM on June 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
As an introvert I'd buy a robot that I could tell to leave me alone and it would.
posted by srboisvert at 12:25 PM on June 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 12:25 PM on June 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
I Love You Miss Robot by The Buggles seems appropriate here, too. Aside from the great opening line: "You make love like a metronome/Don't drive too fast when you take me home," it has a killer bassline.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:27 PM on June 1, 2017
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:27 PM on June 1, 2017
Anyway. Maybe i'm a little weird but I think most things that humans do are strictly worse than designing and building robots to have mutually enjoyable mutually consensual sex with each other. The scenario you describe would be — and yes, I know, phrasing — a happy ending.
Except for the spouses. I, for one, do not skew voyeur. Also, I like popcorn.
Now, they want a metal/flesh orgy, I am down for that.
posted by Samizdata at 12:36 PM on June 1, 2017
Except for the spouses. I, for one, do not skew voyeur. Also, I like popcorn.
Now, they want a metal/flesh orgy, I am down for that.
posted by Samizdata at 12:36 PM on June 1, 2017
yeah, but just because robots exist and humans exist doesn't mean you're entitled to sex with any particular robot or human. my body/chassis, my choice.
There are plenty of nice fish/robofish in the sea.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:40 PM on June 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
There are plenty of nice fish/robofish in the sea.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:40 PM on June 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
yeah, but just because robots exist and humans exist doesn't mean you're entitled to sex with any particular robot or human. my body/chassis, my choice.
There are plenty of nice fish/robofish in the sea.
Well, huh. Then they need to pay their own electric bills somehow.
posted by Samizdata at 1:38 PM on June 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
There are plenty of nice fish/robofish in the sea.
Well, huh. Then they need to pay their own electric bills somehow.
posted by Samizdata at 1:38 PM on June 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Regarding loneliness, I think casual sex, and patronizing sex workers, makes a lot of people even lonelier than they were before.
I don't know that this is an intrinsic property of casual sex, though. I've had casual sexual experiences that left me feeling connected and content. There are also experiences that I still look back on fondly that were completely non-romantic, and that I have zero desire to have played out in a more romantic way. I'd even say that casual sex has been healing for me in some ways.
posted by en forme de poire at 10:01 PM on June 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't know that this is an intrinsic property of casual sex, though. I've had casual sexual experiences that left me feeling connected and content. There are also experiences that I still look back on fondly that were completely non-romantic, and that I have zero desire to have played out in a more romantic way. I'd even say that casual sex has been healing for me in some ways.
posted by en forme de poire at 10:01 PM on June 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
These anxieties about sexbots sound awfully similar to so many earlier fears of art that transgresses onto proper, natural, moral human feelings. In particular, they remind me of historical anxieties about women and novels, which for centuries were feared to be warping vulnerable minds into unrealistic and damaging views of humanity and love.
And for a more up-to-date version:
This isn't to say that art does not affect our minds and desires, nor to say that these dolls aren't an ugly outgrowth of patriarchy. But the fears that these unrealistic representations of sex are going to accelerate the ruination of male desire seem about as plausible as those centuries of fears of unrealistic romance novels warping the minds of vulnerable women.
posted by chortly at 10:33 PM on June 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Through Walter Scott, later on, she fell in love with historical events, dreamed of old chests, guard-rooms and minstrels. She would have liked to live in some old manor-house, like those long-waisted chatelaines who, in the shade of pointed arches, spent their days leaning on the stone, chin in hand, watching a cavalier with white plume galloping on his black horse from the distant fields.... Before marriage she thought herself in love; but the happiness that should have followed this love not having come, she must, she thought, have been mistaken. And Emma tried to find out what one meant exactly in life by the words felicity, passion, rapture, that had seemed to her so beautiful in books.That's Flaubert, half satirizing, half recapitulating those anxieties back in 1856. (Austen did much the same a few decades earlier.)
And for a more up-to-date version:
If a woman learns from her 100 novels a year that romantic feeling is the most important thing, then what follows from that might be to suspend her rationality in favour of romanticism. And that might well mean not using protection with a new man because she wants to be swept up by the moment as a heroine would. It might also mean allowing that same man, a few months down the line, to persuade her to give up contraception because "we love each other." It might mean terminating a pregnancy (or continuing with one) against all her moral codes because that same man asks her to. It might mean panicking totally if sexual desire takes a nose dive after pregnancy or because of strain – after all, such failure never happens to a heroine. It might mean – in the wake of such panic –judging that if romance has died then so has love, and that rather than working at her relationship she should be hitching her star to a new romance.That's psychologist Susan Quilliam worrying 150 years later about the dangerous effects of romance novels, ostensibly based on empirical psychological experiments.
This isn't to say that art does not affect our minds and desires, nor to say that these dolls aren't an ugly outgrowth of patriarchy. But the fears that these unrealistic representations of sex are going to accelerate the ruination of male desire seem about as plausible as those centuries of fears of unrealistic romance novels warping the minds of vulnerable women.
posted by chortly at 10:33 PM on June 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Regarding loneliness, I think casual sex, and patronizing sex workers, makes a lot of people even lonelier than they were before. It's possible I'm just projecting, but it's a common trope with sex workers that a lot of men mostly want to talk.
I suspect the causality is running the other way; people are visiting sex workers because they feel lonely and crave intimacy.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:12 AM on June 2, 2017
I suspect the causality is running the other way; people are visiting sex workers because they feel lonely and crave intimacy.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:12 AM on June 2, 2017
"If it was just physical, why would you need to spend all that money making it look as much like a person as possible?"
People try to compare sex bots to sex with humans or using sex toys, but I think there's a major pornographic element. A picture on a computer screen is just pixels, and intellectually you know it's not a real human, but subconsciously those pixels can look like a human that you find attractive. So if you try to replicate the physical presence of a person for sexual purposes without an actual person, that's pornography. But if you want a tool to physically stimulate your genitals it doesn't need to resemble a human.
posted by RobotHero at 9:52 AM on June 2, 2017
People try to compare sex bots to sex with humans or using sex toys, but I think there's a major pornographic element. A picture on a computer screen is just pixels, and intellectually you know it's not a real human, but subconsciously those pixels can look like a human that you find attractive. So if you try to replicate the physical presence of a person for sexual purposes without an actual person, that's pornography. But if you want a tool to physically stimulate your genitals it doesn't need to resemble a human.
posted by RobotHero at 9:52 AM on June 2, 2017
I suspect the causality is running the other way; people are visiting sex workers because they feel lonely and crave intimacy.
Right, that's why I said "lonelier than they were before." I think it's a feedback loop. Person feels lonely, tries to soothe that loneliness with fake intimacy, ends up lonelier.
In my observation, people who handle casual sex well are able to find emotional intimacy elsewhere. (I'm referring to hookups; I don't know anyone who has admitted to patronizing a sex worker.)
posted by AFABulous at 1:18 PM on June 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Right, that's why I said "lonelier than they were before." I think it's a feedback loop. Person feels lonely, tries to soothe that loneliness with fake intimacy, ends up lonelier.
In my observation, people who handle casual sex well are able to find emotional intimacy elsewhere. (I'm referring to hookups; I don't know anyone who has admitted to patronizing a sex worker.)
posted by AFABulous at 1:18 PM on June 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ha ha as if they'll actually get women's input when designing sexbots for them, rather than just make a bunch of low-information assumptions and then decide women don't really want sexbots when that inevitably fails.
This joke seems to be at the expense of men, until you realize it rests on the assumption that the only people designing sex robots for women will be men.
posted by shponglespore at 5:49 PM on June 2, 2017
This joke seems to be at the expense of men, until you realize it rests on the assumption that the only people designing sex robots for women will be men.
posted by shponglespore at 5:49 PM on June 2, 2017
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posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:58 PM on May 31, 2017