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June 6, 2017 5:45 AM Subscribe
Good morning! (and afternoon or evening!) fellow "fans" of U.S. politics! This week we wait in anticipation for the Thursday testimony of James Comey, a man who knows how to tell a story, and Wednesday's testimony of top intel officers like the NSA's Mike Rogers! Trump, against the advice of presumably every lawyer ever (hi George!!), spent the days after the London attacks rage tweeting about his TRAVEL BAN OH YES IT'S A TRAVEL BAN and insulting the mayor of London, who now rather sensibly supports canceling Trump's state visit. Also too! The Intercept got a major scoop about Russian election interference and their source, Reality Winner [real], was immediately arrested. More miscellaneous: Trump proposed privatizing air traffic control, sours on Sessions, and Congress wants to know if Kushner was seeking a Russian bailout for his hilariously-addressed building at 666 Fifth Avenue.
i'm sure everything will be sorted out in the next two weeks [bloomberg]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:48 AM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
Alright, now I'm certain they're just fucking with us ... "Reality Winner???"
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [26 favorites]
From Vox: The Nevada legislature passed a bill Friday that would allow anyone to buy into Medicaid, the public program that covers low-income Americans. It would be the first state to open the government-run program to all Nevada residents, regardless of their income or health status.
It now waits for GOP governor Sandoval.
posted by Dashy at 5:51 AM on June 6, 2017 [163 favorites]
It now waits for GOP governor Sandoval.
posted by Dashy at 5:51 AM on June 6, 2017 [163 favorites]
Four top law firms turned down requests to represent Trump: Top lawyers with at least four major law firms rebuffed White House overtures to represent President Trump in the Russia investigations, in part over concerns that the president would be unwilling to listen to their advice, according to five sources familiar with discussions about the matter.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:52 AM on June 6, 2017 [96 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:52 AM on June 6, 2017 [96 favorites]
Over at kottke.org: Putin’s playbook for discrediting America and destabilizing the West. "The book in question is The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia by neo-fascist political scientist Aleksandr Dugin, whose nickname is “Putin’s Brain”. The book has been influential within Russian military & foreign policy circles and it appears to be the playbook for recent Russian foreign policy."
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [23 favorites]
YAY lalex!
I had 2 questions while swimming in the last thread:
1. Are there any serious efforts underway to secure the voting systems? This Oct 2016 TechCrunch article touches on a bunch of things being tried, like blockchain, smartcards, man+machine combinations, etc. It just seems like a great gaping hole in the election system that should be better locked down before 2018 in the US especially. (Not sure what is being done in the UK ahead of their upcoming election.)
2. I forgot.
posted by yoga at 5:54 AM on June 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
I had 2 questions while swimming in the last thread:
1. Are there any serious efforts underway to secure the voting systems? This Oct 2016 TechCrunch article touches on a bunch of things being tried, like blockchain, smartcards, man+machine combinations, etc. It just seems like a great gaping hole in the election system that should be better locked down before 2018 in the US especially. (Not sure what is being done in the UK ahead of their upcoming election.)
2. I forgot.
posted by yoga at 5:54 AM on June 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
in part over concerns that the president would be unwilling to listen to their advice
Gosh, whatever made them presume that? All that expensive law school education apparently being put to good use with this prognostication.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:54 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Gosh, whatever made them presume that? All that expensive law school education apparently being put to good use with this prognostication.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:54 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
I remembered the 2nd question:
2. I don't get the Lombardi trophy with ketchup thing. :(
posted by yoga at 5:56 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
2. I don't get the Lombardi trophy with ketchup thing. :(
posted by yoga at 5:56 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump, against the advice of presumably every lawyer ever (hi George!!), spent the days after the London attacks rage tweeting about his TRAVEL BAN OH YES IT'S A TRAVEL BAN
It's not as if Trump actually gives a damn about the ban. He simply wants the attention that comes with "acting tough".
posted by gusottertrout at 5:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's not as if Trump actually gives a damn about the ban. He simply wants the attention that comes with "acting tough".
posted by gusottertrout at 5:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
America was not shut down properly. Would you like to start America in safe mode, with free healthcare and without the guns? (Recommended)
I'd like to restart in Clinton mode, please.
posted by Dashy at 5:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [122 favorites]
I'd like to restart in Clinton mode, please.
posted by Dashy at 5:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [122 favorites]
It's a shame FPPs can't have soundtracks because reading this one just screams yakkity sax.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:59 AM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:59 AM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
2. I don't get the Lombardi trophy with ketchup thing. :(
Pittsburgh is primarily famous for two things: Winning a lot of Super Bowls and Heinz condiments being produced here (though they aren't any more).
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:00 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Pittsburgh is primarily famous for two things: Winning a lot of Super Bowls and Heinz condiments being produced here (though they aren't any more).
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:00 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh! I knew the super bowl thing but the ketchup threw me. Thanks soren_lorensen.
posted by yoga at 6:01 AM on June 6, 2017
posted by yoga at 6:01 AM on June 6, 2017
Are you sure you'd like to keep existing in this timeline? (imgur link)
posted by localhuman at 6:03 AM on June 6, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 6:03 AM on June 6, 2017 [26 favorites]
The Cato institute points out that even if we take them at their word, the Trump administration travel ban rests on a false legal premise :
The executive order claims that it is suspending entries to give the Secretary of Homeland Security time to study “whether, and if so what, additional information will be needed from each foreign country to adjudicate an application by a national of that country for a visa, admission, or other benefit under the INA (adjudications) in order to determine that the individual is not a security or public-safety threat.” It justified the specific countries by stating that their governments have shown less “willingness or ability to share or validate important information about individuals seeking to travel to the United States.”posted by corb at 6:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [57 favorites]
Even if his claim about all six countries were true, this justification is entirely without merit because the applicant, not the government, has the burden to prove their eligibility under the law. In other words, the government has no obligation whatsoever to identify or gather information on the behalf of the applicant simply to “adjudicate” an application. 8 U.S.C. 1361 could not be clearer on this point:
My husband noted that Reality Winner is totally a Phillip K Dick name and that explains a lot about this timeline.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [118 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [118 favorites]
Here's to James Comey: the cause of, and solution to, all of America's problems.
posted by Lazlo Hollyfeld at 6:06 AM on June 6, 2017 [178 favorites]
posted by Lazlo Hollyfeld at 6:06 AM on June 6, 2017 [178 favorites]
Here's to James Comey: the cause of, and solution to, all of America's problems.
And, much like alcohol, his presence has often resulted in me drinking more than is probably healthy.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [23 favorites]
And, much like alcohol, his presence has often resulted in me drinking more than is probably healthy.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [23 favorites]
As I have for the last couple of threads, let me implore everyone to cite the names of reporters when you link to stories, and to link to the original publication website when possible, or to the reporters' own twitter feeds. They're doing the work and taking the risks so they deserve the credit.
posted by spitbull at 6:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [87 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 6:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [87 favorites]
From the stupidly obvious headline dept., courtesy of this morning's WaPo: "As Trump lashes out, Republicans worry it could put their agenda at risk." Ya think?? Haven't they said this a hundred times already?
posted by Melismata at 6:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 6:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, love the post title ; )
posted by spitbull at 6:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 6:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Spitbull - did anything come of Carter Page's PhD thesis viewing?
posted by Dashy at 6:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 6:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Matt Latimer, Politico: A Noun, a Verb and Vladimir Putin: Why the Democrats are making a big mistake by obsessing over Russia.
Nothing seems to have been done to reach out to those who almost upended the Clinton coronation. Are Bernie Sanders’ voters now OK with the Democratic Party establishment? Who knows? Do the Democrats have a tax cut plan to aid the middle class, a position on trade to respond to the woes of the manufacturing class, or a plan to fix health care? Uh, boring! By the way, who is leading the Democratic Party today? Obama? Clinton? Pelosi? Schumer? Warren? TBD? Who cares?posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:16 AM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
The real answer, of course, appears to be Vladimir Putin. Whatever rhetorical white rabbit he sends out into the atmosphere, the Democrats scamper after. For those who haven’t been following their evolving storyline: The Russians tampered with the vote tallies in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and then had proof Trump hired prostitutes at a hotel in Moscow for some X-rated sex acts and then worked with Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort to rig the election and then somehow Jared Kushner got involved while President Trump allegedly gave the Russians illegal intelligence and called the FBI director a nut job. Hard to follow? Well, don’t worry. It’s just bad, trust us, and we’ll prove it all, or part of it. Or move on to something else.
My husband noted that Reality Winner is totally a Phillip K Dick name and that explains a lot about this timeline.
Give me three examples of Phillip K. Dick using a name that ridiculous. I'd name a child "Horselover" before I'd name it "Reality".
posted by thelonius at 6:17 AM on June 6, 2017 [16 favorites]
Give me three examples of Phillip K. Dick using a name that ridiculous. I'd name a child "Horselover" before I'd name it "Reality".
posted by thelonius at 6:17 AM on June 6, 2017 [16 favorites]
i'm sure everything will be sorted out in the next two weeks
Ah yes, "in the next two to three weeks," 45's policy equivalent of the Canadian girlfriend.
posted by Mayor West at 6:17 AM on June 6, 2017 [69 favorites]
Ah yes, "in the next two to three weeks," 45's policy equivalent of the Canadian girlfriend.
posted by Mayor West at 6:17 AM on June 6, 2017 [69 favorites]
My husband noted that Reality Winner is totally a Phillip K Dick name and that explains a lot about this timeline.
The Empire Never Ended. I will not be surprised if a beam of pink light shoots through my kitchen window and into my pineal gland to inform me that history is permanently paused in 70 AD and that the all-spirit of a mad roman emperor is forever ruling the Black Iron Prison and that my name is actually Catstroker Grumpy.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:19 AM on June 6, 2017 [42 favorites]
The Empire Never Ended. I will not be surprised if a beam of pink light shoots through my kitchen window and into my pineal gland to inform me that history is permanently paused in 70 AD and that the all-spirit of a mad roman emperor is forever ruling the Black Iron Prison and that my name is actually Catstroker Grumpy.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:19 AM on June 6, 2017 [42 favorites]
Thanks for the new thread (with the great title!), Lalex!
I was reading the Vox article on Nevada's proposed Medicaid for all this morning. Medicaid expansion via the ACA is popular with people across the political spectrum. So I hope the Nevada governor (Republican though he is) signs it. If Gov. Brown signs in healthcare for all in Cali, I hope this means a wave of states implementing their own healthcare for all programs, no matter what happens in Washington.
What is a not-dog-whistle term for "state's rights?" Local control? I'll run with that for now, and say that moderate to liberal states saying "to hell with Apricot Asswipe, Granny Starver and all of them, we're doing what's right by our people and our earth" I hope becomes a trend and a wave. I'm going to be optimistic (which might get me drummed out of Metafilter) and say that the Climate Alliance started a trend of positive, liberal local governance.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:20 AM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
I was reading the Vox article on Nevada's proposed Medicaid for all this morning. Medicaid expansion via the ACA is popular with people across the political spectrum. So I hope the Nevada governor (Republican though he is) signs it. If Gov. Brown signs in healthcare for all in Cali, I hope this means a wave of states implementing their own healthcare for all programs, no matter what happens in Washington.
What is a not-dog-whistle term for "state's rights?" Local control? I'll run with that for now, and say that moderate to liberal states saying "to hell with Apricot Asswipe, Granny Starver and all of them, we're doing what's right by our people and our earth" I hope becomes a trend and a wave. I'm going to be optimistic (which might get me drummed out of Metafilter) and say that the Climate Alliance started a trend of positive, liberal local governance.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:20 AM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
Carter Page's PhD thesis viewing?
It being summer and the U.K. being otherwise occupied means my peeps have yet to go to the damn library even though the fate of civilization hangs in the balance.
/academics
posted by spitbull at 6:22 AM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
It being summer and the U.K. being otherwise occupied means my peeps have yet to go to the damn library even though the fate of civilization hangs in the balance.
/academics
posted by spitbull at 6:22 AM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
Please shoot me. I have abandoned my belief this was just an elaborate nightmare brought on by an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato.
posted by tommasz at 6:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 6:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [34 favorites]
That poor kid, though. Just like Chelsea Manning, she's going to get the book thrown at her and she isn't going to be able to go to ground in Russia or get shelter in some embassy. I just cannot believe that the Intercept could have been so dumb. If there are going to be civilian/ordinary people leakers, whoever they leak to has to protect them better. At least she won't be in a military prison.
This is also bad because it tells people who may have other important information that if they share it with the obvious people, those people will just fuck it up and they'll go to jail.
posted by Frowner at 6:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [115 favorites]
This is also bad because it tells people who may have other important information that if they share it with the obvious people, those people will just fuck it up and they'll go to jail.
posted by Frowner at 6:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [115 favorites]
Why the Democrats are making a big mistake by obsessing over Russia.
It's amazing how other people obsess over something while I see the real issue.
posted by Etrigan at 6:25 AM on June 6, 2017 [107 favorites]
It's amazing how other people obsess over something while I see the real issue.
posted by Etrigan at 6:25 AM on June 6, 2017 [107 favorites]
an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato.
Quit listing the president's judicial nominations.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:26 AM on June 6, 2017 [48 favorites]
Quit listing the president's judicial nominations.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:26 AM on June 6, 2017 [48 favorites]
That poor Reality kid is an Air Force vet. I'd guess she's up to the challenge. Kids these days - they're all right.
posted by Dashy at 6:29 AM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 6:29 AM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
Matt Latimer: So you're telling me one thing happened and then other things happened? Sure. Get your story straight, Dems.
By the way, who is leading the Democratic Party today?
As for me and my house, we will follow Maxine Waters.
posted by Emmy Rae at 6:32 AM on June 6, 2017 [47 favorites]
By the way, who is leading the Democratic Party today?
As for me and my house, we will follow Maxine Waters.
posted by Emmy Rae at 6:32 AM on June 6, 2017 [47 favorites]
A typo fix: "the *fate* of Reality Winner."
Waiting for Trump to pardon her and the headline -- "Trump Lets Reality Go!"
posted by spitbull at 6:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
Waiting for Trump to pardon her and the headline -- "Trump Lets Reality Go!"
posted by spitbull at 6:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
Isn't it pretty clear that Trump wants to lose the travel-ban case? Unless there are exactly zero terrorist attacks in the US during his term, he's a whole lot better off saying "I tried to protect us but the courts wouldn't let me" than defending a ban that failed to keep us safe.
posted by nicwolff at 6:34 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by nicwolff at 6:34 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
Maybe enough with making fun of the woman's name? She's fluent in several foreign languages, which makes her a lot more talented than a lot of us American MeFites that are giving her so much shit.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:34 AM on June 6, 2017 [74 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 6:34 AM on June 6, 2017 [74 favorites]
If there's anyone on whom Trump is likely to go leniently, it's a Reality Winner.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:35 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 6:35 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Isn't it pretty clear that Trump wants to lose the travel-ban case? Unless there are exactly zero terrorist attacks in the US during his term, he's a whole lot better off saying "I tried to protect us but the courts wouldn't let me" than defending a ban that failed to keep us safe.
Well, we've already passed the "zero" threshold, but the terrorist attacks so far have been by white guys.
And no, I don't give Trump enough credit for looking for an excuse before he fails. I think he still believes he can fix everything, if people would just get out of his way.
posted by Etrigan at 6:36 AM on June 6, 2017 [16 favorites]
Well, we've already passed the "zero" threshold, but the terrorist attacks so far have been by white guys.
And no, I don't give Trump enough credit for looking for an excuse before he fails. I think he still believes he can fix everything, if people would just get out of his way.
posted by Etrigan at 6:36 AM on June 6, 2017 [16 favorites]
Just like Chelsea Manning, she's going to get the book thrown at her and she isn't going to be able to go to ground in Russia or get shelter in some embassy.
Just want to again remind people who are eligible to try to not avoid jury duty if you are at all able to serve. (Not saying you'd be picked for this case, or that it will even end up at a jury trial.) Beyond the option of jury nullification (which is legal), just being a person who is aware of systemic oppression and how that impacts the weighting of testimony and credibility of witnesses and evidence can make a huge difference and actually save someone's life. As far as I know, you can't volunteer for federal jury duty, but in many states/municipalities you can (though, again, it doesn't mean you'll be selected in voir dire).
posted by melissasaurus at 6:37 AM on June 6, 2017 [63 favorites]
Just want to again remind people who are eligible to try to not avoid jury duty if you are at all able to serve. (Not saying you'd be picked for this case, or that it will even end up at a jury trial.) Beyond the option of jury nullification (which is legal), just being a person who is aware of systemic oppression and how that impacts the weighting of testimony and credibility of witnesses and evidence can make a huge difference and actually save someone's life. As far as I know, you can't volunteer for federal jury duty, but in many states/municipalities you can (though, again, it doesn't mean you'll be selected in voir dire).
posted by melissasaurus at 6:37 AM on June 6, 2017 [63 favorites]
Maybe enough with making fun of the woman's name? She's fluent in several foreign languages, which makes her a lot more talented than a lot of us American MeFites that are giving her so much shit.
I'm not making fun of her name so much as gobsmacked that it's so ridiculously apt for this trainwreck of a Presidency. Of course her name is Reality Winner.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:37 AM on June 6, 2017 [109 favorites]
I'm not making fun of her name so much as gobsmacked that it's so ridiculously apt for this trainwreck of a Presidency. Of course her name is Reality Winner.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:37 AM on June 6, 2017 [109 favorites]
By the way, who is leading the Democratic Party today?
It sure doesn't seem to be Charismatic Hopeful or even Rational Self-Interest.
(Sorry, this Reality Winner thing has sent me into a cognitive land of contrasts).
posted by Chitownfats at 6:40 AM on June 6, 2017 [17 favorites]
Isn't it pretty clear that Trump wants to lose the travel-ban case? Unless there are exactly zero terrorist attacks in the US during his term, he's a whole lot better off saying "I tried to protect us but the courts wouldn't let me" than defending a ban that failed to keep us safe.
Not clear at all to me. What is much more clear is that Donald Trump has no ideology, no goals other than trying to fill the hole in his narcissistic soul, no superego, and hasn't assimilated new information since about 1986. This isn't nth-dimensional chess on his part. He just reacts. He's an input-output machine. Input narcissistic injury, output tweets. That's it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:40 AM on June 6, 2017 [102 favorites]
Not clear at all to me. What is much more clear is that Donald Trump has no ideology, no goals other than trying to fill the hole in his narcissistic soul, no superego, and hasn't assimilated new information since about 1986. This isn't nth-dimensional chess on his part. He just reacts. He's an input-output machine. Input narcissistic injury, output tweets. That's it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:40 AM on June 6, 2017 [102 favorites]
More King Maldonado tweeting: So good to see the Saudi Arabia visit with the King and 50 countries already paying off. They said they would take a hard line on funding...
Not sure what he means by paying off. It's unclear if he'll ever finish the tweet, as well, I guess.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:41 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not sure what he means by paying off. It's unclear if he'll ever finish the tweet, as well, I guess.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:41 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
By the way, who is leading the Democratic Party today?
It sure doesn't seem to be Charismatic Hopeful or even Rational Self-Interest.
I'm pulling for Grizzled Streetfighter, but we'd need to take back the House before impeachment to get her.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:43 AM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
It sure doesn't seem to be Charismatic Hopeful or even Rational Self-Interest.
I'm pulling for Grizzled Streetfighter, but we'd need to take back the House before impeachment to get her.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:43 AM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
Not sure what he means by paying off. It's unclear if he'll ever finish the tweet, as well, I guess.
I expect there's just a bird outside the oval office window and he's staring at it and making a weird chattering noise.
edit: the bird flew away and he finished it!
...extremism, and all reference was pointing to Qatar. Perhaps this will be the beginning of the end to the horror of terrorism!
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
I expect there's just a bird outside the oval office window and he's staring at it and making a weird chattering noise.
edit: the bird flew away and he finished it!
...extremism, and all reference was pointing to Qatar. Perhaps this will be the beginning of the end to the horror of terrorism!
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
That poor Reality kid is an Air Force vet. I'd guess she's up to the challenge. Kids these days - they're all right.
Yeah, you know, I'm sure she's not a delicate flower. But she's also going to jail, probably for a long time, under extreme media scrutiny, apparently without the political connections that many activists have. I assume she won't suffer as much as Chelsea Manning did in jail, but my bet is that she'll get an extra helping of harassment because she's a "traitor" or whatever.
Also, our prison system is a disgusting hell pit and I wouldn't wish it on anyone except the white collar criminals who get rich off taking people's heathcare and ginning up wars. Them, they can rot, but other methods should be found for everyone else.
posted by Frowner at 6:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [78 favorites]
Yeah, you know, I'm sure she's not a delicate flower. But she's also going to jail, probably for a long time, under extreme media scrutiny, apparently without the political connections that many activists have. I assume she won't suffer as much as Chelsea Manning did in jail, but my bet is that she'll get an extra helping of harassment because she's a "traitor" or whatever.
Also, our prison system is a disgusting hell pit and I wouldn't wish it on anyone except the white collar criminals who get rich off taking people's heathcare and ginning up wars. Them, they can rot, but other methods should be found for everyone else.
posted by Frowner at 6:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [78 favorites]
As Colbert said, "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."
posted by Foosnark at 6:45 AM on June 6, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by Foosnark at 6:45 AM on June 6, 2017 [53 favorites]
More King Maldonado tweeting: So good to see the Saudi Arabia visit with the King and 50 countries already paying off. They said they would take a hard line on funding...
Oh God, is this idiot taking sides in the Saudi/Qatari kerfuffle? Against the country hosting the largest military base in the Middle East?! JFC.
His stupidity really is boundless.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:45 AM on June 6, 2017 [67 favorites]
Oh God, is this idiot taking sides in the Saudi/Qatari kerfuffle? Against the country hosting the largest military base in the Middle East?! JFC.
His stupidity really is boundless.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:45 AM on June 6, 2017 [67 favorites]
Alright, now I'm certain they're just fucking with us ... "Reality Winner???"
Has anyone run with the headline “WE HAVE A WINNER” yet?
posted by acb at 6:46 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Has anyone run with the headline “WE HAVE A WINNER” yet?
posted by acb at 6:46 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Isn't it pretty clear that Trump wants to lose the travel-ban case?
Again with attributing forethought and effort to Trump? I thought we'd accepted that he doesn't want to do anything except receive adulation. Bannon, however, would like the ban to fail.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:46 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Again with attributing forethought and effort to Trump? I thought we'd accepted that he doesn't want to do anything except receive adulation. Bannon, however, would like the ban to fail.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:46 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Probably the most worthless of "news analysis" topics right now is "Which advisors have Donald Trump's ear?" The obvious answer is "only the weird little voices in his own head".
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:46 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:46 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
So how long does it take to airlift 10 000 troops?
posted by PenDevil at 6:47 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 6:47 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
I just cannot believe that the Intercept could have been so dumb.I can.
Reality Winner is a funny name, but her twitter account is under the name "Sara."
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:47 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
It sure doesn't seem to be Charismatic Hopeful or even Rational Self-Interest.
I'm pulling for Grizzled Streetfighter, but we'd need to take back the House before impeachment to get her.
Maybe we can get Max Fightmaster or Rad Heroman.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:48 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm pulling for Grizzled Streetfighter, but we'd need to take back the House before impeachment to get her.
Maybe we can get Max Fightmaster or Rad Heroman.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:48 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I assume she won't suffer as much as Chelsea Manning did in jail, but my bet is that she'll get an extra helping of harassment because she's a "traitor" or whatever.
Manning was jailed under Obama. The new administration's personnel (Sessions, Pompeo, &c.) are much more hardline. If there is an option to have her sentenced to death, and preferably very publicly executed by military firing squad, pour encourager les autres, they'll push hard for it. Especially since Uncle Vlad is dragging his feet on Snowden.
posted by acb at 6:49 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Manning was jailed under Obama. The new administration's personnel (Sessions, Pompeo, &c.) are much more hardline. If there is an option to have her sentenced to death, and preferably very publicly executed by military firing squad, pour encourager les autres, they'll push hard for it. Especially since Uncle Vlad is dragging his feet on Snowden.
posted by acb at 6:49 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Bannon, however, would like the ban to fail.
Bannon thinks he's running a Xanatos gambit ("a plan for which all foreseeable outcomes benefit the creator — including ones that superficially appear to be failure.") where either fewer Muslims / nonwhite people come to his white Christian America or he gets to blame any incident involving a Muslim / nonwhite person on the librul judges.
posted by Etrigan at 6:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
Bannon thinks he's running a Xanatos gambit ("a plan for which all foreseeable outcomes benefit the creator — including ones that superficially appear to be failure.") where either fewer Muslims / nonwhite people come to his white Christian America or he gets to blame any incident involving a Muslim / nonwhite person on the librul judges.
posted by Etrigan at 6:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
My husband noted that Reality Winner is totally a Phillip K Dick name and that explains a lot about this timeline.
Either that or we are all collectively dying of oxygen deprivation and hallucinating incoherently.
posted by acb at 6:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Either that or we are all collectively dying of oxygen deprivation and hallucinating incoherently.
posted by acb at 6:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
From the Steele Dossier to Reality Winner, I can't help but feel that the naming conventions are the attempt of some outside force to clue us in to the fact that we are living in a simulation.
posted by nubs at 6:51 AM on June 6, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by nubs at 6:51 AM on June 6, 2017 [54 favorites]
The Qatari thing is absolute madness. He's going to get people killed. Aside from the military base, Qatar owns Al-Jazeera.
posted by empath at 6:51 AM on June 6, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by empath at 6:51 AM on June 6, 2017 [43 favorites]
It's the most "liberal" of the Gulf States, and the most cheesy and authoritarian one just spent millions buttering him up with gaudy shite, so clearly it's fucked.
Saudi having so little oil left they have to swipe other peoples is a bit weird though.
posted by Artw at 6:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [22 favorites]
Saudi having so little oil left they have to swipe other peoples is a bit weird though.
posted by Artw at 6:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [22 favorites]
Aren't the Democrats mostly doing the right thing right now? Finally taking it to the local level which they should have done 8 years ago, working for single payer and/or medicaid expansion on the state level, committing to the Paris agreement in states and cities. All American majors supporting London and the London major in a joint statement. And more.
If I were a political advisor, I'd warn against bringing up new brilliant leaders in public now because that will give the Rethugs more time to slander them.
Also, the Trump administration is only going one way, and it's far better political tactics to let that happen on its own than to meddle at this point. Having a strong democratic leader ridiculing Trump right now could backfire - negative messages are rarely good, even Trump promised to MAGA.
posted by mumimor at 6:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [39 favorites]
If I were a political advisor, I'd warn against bringing up new brilliant leaders in public now because that will give the Rethugs more time to slander them.
Also, the Trump administration is only going one way, and it's far better political tactics to let that happen on its own than to meddle at this point. Having a strong democratic leader ridiculing Trump right now could backfire - negative messages are rarely good, even Trump promised to MAGA.
posted by mumimor at 6:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [39 favorites]
Ezra Klein/@ezraklein/Vox - Has anyone told Donald Trump that he runs the government?
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:00 AM on June 6, 2017 [51 favorites]
Trump ran for office posing as a savvy corporate executive who would manage the government like a business. But since winning the presidency, he has proven alienated and confused by the government he runs. He criticizes it in public in ways that make clear he doesn’t understand how to manage it in private. Harry Truman famously had a sign on his desk saying, “The buck stops here.” Trump isn’t sure where the buck stops, or how to find it, or even whom to ask about it. He doesn’t run the government so much as fight with it.Bad government and bad business skills all in one.
...
Among the many problems with Trump’s presidency is he appears to be treating it much as he treated his branding empire. He runs his White House, and feels responsibility for certain decisions he makes personally — like pulling out of the Paris agreement, or sending cruise missiles to Syria. But the further a decision gets from his core interests and nearby staffers, the less responsibility he feels for it.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:00 AM on June 6, 2017 [51 favorites]
Isn't the fighting at the local level stuff not well funded by/mildly disapproved of by head Democrats? It seems like a more organic, roots lead thing. Which is good, but having the whole party playing would be better.
posted by Artw at 7:01 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:01 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
I suspect that the long-term plan of the national democratic party is silence the liberal base and steal the neo-conservatives from the GOP, because they really want to commit to losing elections while collecting a lot of money from corporations.
posted by empath at 7:04 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by empath at 7:04 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
yoga:(Not sure what is being done in the UK ahead of their upcoming election.)
UK election systems remain all paper. The count is done by hand on the night of the ballot.
Sometimes, low tech is good tech. Also, hand counts provide lots of drama on election night which everyone secretly enjoys immensely so I can't see them going away anytime soon.
posted by pharm at 7:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
UK election systems remain all paper. The count is done by hand on the night of the ballot.
Sometimes, low tech is good tech. Also, hand counts provide lots of drama on election night which everyone secretly enjoys immensely so I can't see them going away anytime soon.
posted by pharm at 7:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
20 bucks to anyone who can brick Trump's twitter phone/ somehow disable it. The madness he comes out with is a problem. Thankfully (?) I think the only ones who are even paying attention to anything he says at this point are his own base. Europe thinks he's a big dummy they'll have to live through for the next few years, it would be surprising to find out the Middle East thought of him much differently.
Also, Spitbull's recommendation is great.
Also also I'm serious about the 20 bucks. I could maybe even go 25.
posted by From Bklyn at 7:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also, Spitbull's recommendation is great.
Also also I'm serious about the 20 bucks. I could maybe even go 25.
posted by From Bklyn at 7:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe Trump is what it takes to drown the federal government in the bathtub, as it were, considering how many steps individual states/cities are taking to do things they want done in the face of Trump's administration, such as aligning to support the Paris Accord and Nevada trying to order full access to Medicaid.
posted by davejay at 7:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by davejay at 7:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Today is the 73rd anniversary of D-Day, and I actually broke down sobbing listening to FDR's radio prayer on the morning of June 6, 1944. I kept thinking to myself of how brutally bloody the Longest Day was, and the current state of the nation and the world that those soldiers gave their lives for, of how Trump is our President and instead of fighting Nazis, we're seeing their rise inside the United States. And the difference between a "President" who is a gaping maw of horror, and a President who fervently prayed for peace in the battle against monsters. And maybe, parts have relevance even for us now.
They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph.posted by corb at 7:06 AM on June 6, 2017 [155 favorites]
They will be sore tried, by night and by day, without rest-until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame. Men's souls will be shaken with the violences of war.
For these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise, and tolerance and good will among all Thy people. They yearn but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home.
With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy. Help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogancies. Lead us to the saving of our country, and with our sister Nations into a world unity that will spell a sure peace, a peace invulnerable to the schemings of unworthy men. And a peace that will let all of men live in freedom, reaping the just rewards of their honest toil.
Pittsburgh Mayor and two dozen other elected officials in the city, county and surrounding area are taking out a full page ad in the New York Times to protest Trump's pullout from the Paris Agreement.
posted by octothorpe at 7:07 AM on June 6, 2017 [61 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:07 AM on June 6, 2017 [61 favorites]
Thanks (from an atheist) for posting that, corb. Beautiful and deeply true. A peace invulnerable to the schemings of unworthy men, indeed.
posted by Dashy at 7:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 7:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
Isn't the fighting at the local level stuff not well funded by/mildly disapproved of by head Democrats?I don't get the sense that they disapprove, but I think they're extremely hesitant to be seen to be coopting things like Indivisible, which seems to be doing an ok job of bringing together different factions who might not be able to get along if the party got involved. The Democrats are trying to organize something called "Resistance Summer" to tap into the grassroots activism, but I'm not convinced it's going to take off. We'll see, I guess.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:11 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert (formerly of Fox and Friends) will conduct her first briefing today, at 2pm.
This should be an interesting one.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
This should be an interesting one.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
I despise Greenwald and have no love of the Intercept, but here's a contrarian opinion on Reality. And Yashar Ali, who writes for New York mag and MoJo, isn't known to be a Greenwaldian in my experience.
@yashar
1. Some are accusing Intercept of outing their source/being sloppy in their interactions w/ the feds which led to their source being outed
2. The Intercept reporters and their editor(s) really had no options here, I don't believe they could have handled this any other way.
3. Let's go through the facts. Reality Winner printed out the NSA document at work, it's likely she used a system called JWICS
4. JWICS is a program run by the DIA and can track who prints documents and who accesses documents. More on JWICS in another thread.
5. She then mailed the document to the Intercept. The document was mailed anonymously, The Intercept had no idea who sent it.
6. The Intercept, like any news org, wanted to report on the contents of the document. Remember, they don't know who its from.
7. When you receive a document anonymously in the mail, as a reporter you are free to use it as you wish, by mailing it anonymously
8. The source has given you permission to use the document any way you wish, they are expected to have done the leg work to make sure
9. They won't be caught. A perfect example of this is when NYT @susannecraig received pages from Trump's tax returns last October.
10. Even though there were giveaways on the returns like a sig tab pointing to Marla Maple's sig, it wasn't up to Susanne to protect source
11. So the Intercept team sends the doc to the feds, people keep talking about the crease issue mentioned in the FBI affidavit.
12. Given that the NSA document came from JWICS it doesn't matter whether there was a crease or not. Once the feds got the doc they were...
13. They were going to check JWICS to see who accessed the document and who printed it. The feds were going to check JWICS regardless
14. And when they checked JWICS they would have seen her name as someone who accessed it and still noticed that she had
15. That she had emailed the Intercept about a totally unrelated issue: podcast related matter. And when they went to her home
16. She would have still confessed. The intercept sending a PDF of that document probably saved the Feds a few minutes at most.
posted by chris24 at 7:16 AM on June 6, 2017 [34 favorites]
@yashar
1. Some are accusing Intercept of outing their source/being sloppy in their interactions w/ the feds which led to their source being outed
2. The Intercept reporters and their editor(s) really had no options here, I don't believe they could have handled this any other way.
3. Let's go through the facts. Reality Winner printed out the NSA document at work, it's likely she used a system called JWICS
4. JWICS is a program run by the DIA and can track who prints documents and who accesses documents. More on JWICS in another thread.
5. She then mailed the document to the Intercept. The document was mailed anonymously, The Intercept had no idea who sent it.
6. The Intercept, like any news org, wanted to report on the contents of the document. Remember, they don't know who its from.
7. When you receive a document anonymously in the mail, as a reporter you are free to use it as you wish, by mailing it anonymously
8. The source has given you permission to use the document any way you wish, they are expected to have done the leg work to make sure
9. They won't be caught. A perfect example of this is when NYT @susannecraig received pages from Trump's tax returns last October.
10. Even though there were giveaways on the returns like a sig tab pointing to Marla Maple's sig, it wasn't up to Susanne to protect source
11. So the Intercept team sends the doc to the feds, people keep talking about the crease issue mentioned in the FBI affidavit.
12. Given that the NSA document came from JWICS it doesn't matter whether there was a crease or not. Once the feds got the doc they were...
13. They were going to check JWICS to see who accessed the document and who printed it. The feds were going to check JWICS regardless
14. And when they checked JWICS they would have seen her name as someone who accessed it and still noticed that she had
15. That she had emailed the Intercept about a totally unrelated issue: podcast related matter. And when they went to her home
16. She would have still confessed. The intercept sending a PDF of that document probably saved the Feds a few minutes at most.
posted by chris24 at 7:16 AM on June 6, 2017 [34 favorites]
My husband noted that Reality Winner is totally a Phillip K Dick name
My first thought was that it was even more unbelievable than "Chia Pet McKenzie."
posted by octobersurprise at 7:18 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
My first thought was that it was even more unbelievable than "Chia Pet McKenzie."
posted by octobersurprise at 7:18 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
20 bucks to anyone who can brick Trump's twitter phone/ somehow disable it.
I believe he's using an iPhone now.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:19 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I believe he's using an iPhone now.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:19 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
By the way, who is leading the Democratic Party today? Obama? Clinton? Pelosi? Schumer? Warren? TBD? Who cares?
It's hard to take an article in good faith with lazy crap like this. The answer of who is leading an American opposition party is always "TBD" until they nominate the next presidential candidate. * I know you're a pundit and you've got to turn out contrarian stuff daily, and also remind your readers that you are superior to both parties in truth telling, but at least get it to a level that a 9th grader with a single civics class couldn't poke holes in.
*Who led the Republicans in 2015? Boehner? Ryan? McConnell? Hell, the number of governors they had the press liked--Jindal, Walker, Haley, etc.--was considered a sign of deep talent, not disorganization.
And while I'm at it, Sanders supporters almost derailing the "coronation" wasn't a problem for Democrats. We would have been a party with a candidate who was further to the left. That this should somehow be view as equal in importance with the Russian interference is Politico style "obsessions" bubbling through.
posted by mark k at 7:22 AM on June 6, 2017 [33 favorites]
It's hard to take an article in good faith with lazy crap like this. The answer of who is leading an American opposition party is always "TBD" until they nominate the next presidential candidate. * I know you're a pundit and you've got to turn out contrarian stuff daily, and also remind your readers that you are superior to both parties in truth telling, but at least get it to a level that a 9th grader with a single civics class couldn't poke holes in.
*Who led the Republicans in 2015? Boehner? Ryan? McConnell? Hell, the number of governors they had the press liked--Jindal, Walker, Haley, etc.--was considered a sign of deep talent, not disorganization.
And while I'm at it, Sanders supporters almost derailing the "coronation" wasn't a problem for Democrats. We would have been a party with a candidate who was further to the left. That this should somehow be view as equal in importance with the Russian interference is Politico style "obsessions" bubbling through.
posted by mark k at 7:22 AM on June 6, 2017 [33 favorites]
Bruce Riedel, Brookings Inst.: The $110 billion arms deal to Saudi Arabia is fake news
I’ve spoken to contacts in the defense business and on the Hill, and all of them say the same thing: There is no $110 billion deal. Instead, there are a bunch of letters of interest or intent, but not contracts. Many are offers that the defense industry thinks the Saudis will be interested in someday. So far nothing has been notified to the Senate for review. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency, the arms sales wing of the Pentagon, calls them “intended sales.” None of the deals identified so far are new, all began in the Obama administration.TPM: BREAKING: Trump’s Saudi Arms Deal Is Actually Fake, referring to the above:
What actually strikes me about this is not so much the Trump Team’s deception. That’s really expected at this point. What’s remarkable is that we’re only finding out about this, not from a news organization or reporter, but from a national security hand who did his own poking around. This isn’t a secret conversation or classified project. When you make a deal with a price tag over $100 billion it creates a trail. Why didn’t reporters on the national security beat figure this out?posted by ZeusHumms at 7:26 AM on June 6, 2017 [83 favorites]
Anyone know what time Rogers-mas starts, and if it's going to be an open hearing (with a live feed?)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:28 AM on June 6, 2017
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:28 AM on June 6, 2017
My husband noted that Reality Winner is totally a Phillip K Dick name and that explains a lot about this timeline.
It's the movie name. The original book is "Do Oligarchs Dream of Electric Votes?"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:29 AM on June 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
It's the movie name. The original book is "Do Oligarchs Dream of Electric Votes?"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:29 AM on June 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
Isn't the fighting at the local level stuff not well funded by/mildly disapproved of by head Democrats? It seems like a more organic, roots lead thing. Which is good, but having the whole party playing would be better.
Depends what you mean by "head Democrats", I think. Here in Ohio the actual Dem party organization seems to be going full-bore organizing things like anti-gerrymanding ballot measures, training for activists, GOTV & registration efforts for the midterms, encouraging Dems to run for local offices, engaging with and training within the African-American and Latin-American and LGBTQ communities, pressuring Dem officials at the state and local level to openly speak up about resisting Trump and the Republican agenda, so on and so forth. (Possible disclaimer: I've never been on the Official Ohio Dem email list before HRC's campaign, so it's possible this is business as usual for the Ohio Dems. But I don't think so.) No idea how much funding the Ohio branch gets from the national org, but to kind of bounce off mark k's point, the next election is really a state-level election, so it may be more useful to dig into what state-level parties are doing to get a sense of how much "head Democrats" may or may not support local-level stuff.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:31 AM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Depends what you mean by "head Democrats", I think. Here in Ohio the actual Dem party organization seems to be going full-bore organizing things like anti-gerrymanding ballot measures, training for activists, GOTV & registration efforts for the midterms, encouraging Dems to run for local offices, engaging with and training within the African-American and Latin-American and LGBTQ communities, pressuring Dem officials at the state and local level to openly speak up about resisting Trump and the Republican agenda, so on and so forth. (Possible disclaimer: I've never been on the Official Ohio Dem email list before HRC's campaign, so it's possible this is business as usual for the Ohio Dems. But I don't think so.) No idea how much funding the Ohio branch gets from the national org, but to kind of bounce off mark k's point, the next election is really a state-level election, so it may be more useful to dig into what state-level parties are doing to get a sense of how much "head Democrats" may or may not support local-level stuff.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:31 AM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
NYT: Trump Defends Twitter Use as Aides Urge Him to Cut Back: On Monday night, Mr. Trump’s legislative affairs director, Marc Short, said that “many” of the president’s tweets were helpful in getting out his message of change to voters and legislators. But he also said that the president’s woes, especially ongoing Congressional investigations, were making it harder to stay “focused” on passing ambitious tax reform, health care and infrastructure bills.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:31 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:31 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: Here's a contrarian opinion on Reality.
can you do this on your own comment?
posted by chris24 at 7:32 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
can you do this on your own comment?
posted by chris24 at 7:32 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
THURSDAY! THURSDAY! THURSDAY!
posted by asteria at 7:36 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by asteria at 7:36 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
...extremism, and all reference was pointing to Qatar. Perhaps this will be the beginning of the end to the horror of terrorism!
Yep, picking sides. Idiot. Blithering Idiot.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:39 AM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yep, picking sides. Idiot. Blithering Idiot.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:39 AM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Bruce Riedel, Brookings Inst.: The $110 billion arms deal to Saudi Arabia is fake news
This is bad framing. It's a lie, it's a deception, it's bogus. But do not call it "fake news", a now-meaningless term.
posted by thelonius at 7:40 AM on June 6, 2017 [40 favorites]
This is bad framing. It's a lie, it's a deception, it's bogus. But do not call it "fake news", a now-meaningless term.
posted by thelonius at 7:40 AM on June 6, 2017 [40 favorites]
Pittsburgh Mayor and two dozen other elected officials in the city, county and surrounding area are taking out a full page ad in the New York Times to protest Trump's pullout from the Paris Agreement.
Look at the colors. Man, they really do love the Steelers.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:41 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Look at the colors. Man, they really do love the Steelers.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:41 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
(Possible disclaimer: I've never been on the Official Ohio Dem email list before HRC's campaign, so it's possible this is business as usual for the Ohio Dems. But I don't think so.)
I've been on every single official Ohio Dem email list since we moved here in 1996. This is way more than business as usual. I have never seen so much organization and so much activity. And that's why I'm hopeful.
posted by cooker girl at 7:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
I've been on every single official Ohio Dem email list since we moved here in 1996. This is way more than business as usual. I have never seen so much organization and so much activity. And that's why I'm hopeful.
posted by cooker girl at 7:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
Look at the colors. Man, they really do love the Steelers.
Oh, you have no idea. (Those are the colors of all our sports teams, though, and our city flag.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
Oh, you have no idea. (Those are the colors of all our sports teams, though, and our city flag.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
Can the Ohio Dems please step next door and talk to our PA Dems?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:45 AM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:45 AM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Look at the colors. Man, they really do love the Steelers.
Nothing to do with the Steelers, The City of Pittsburgh had the colors black and gold first.
posted by octothorpe at 7:45 AM on June 6, 2017
Nothing to do with the Steelers, The City of Pittsburgh had the colors black and gold first.
posted by octothorpe at 7:45 AM on June 6, 2017
Look at the colors. Man, they really do love the Steelers.
Nothing to do with the Steelers, The City of Pittsburgh had the colors black and gold first.
Name the colors of any other city in the world. The Steelers may have got the colors from Pittsburgh, but the team is why yellow and black are all over everything.
posted by Etrigan at 7:51 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nothing to do with the Steelers, The City of Pittsburgh had the colors black and gold first.
Name the colors of any other city in the world. The Steelers may have got the colors from Pittsburgh, but the team is why yellow and black are all over everything.
posted by Etrigan at 7:51 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just to make things more ridiculous, Nikki Haley warns US may pull out of UN Human Rights Council over 'anti-Israel bias'.
posted by mephron at 7:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by mephron at 7:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ugh, guys, as much as I love a good chat about Pittsburgh, this is a dumb argument.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
THURSDAY! THURSDAY! THURSDAY!
...is also the day of the UK General Election. Taking a break from compiling the FPP for that to work the other half of my brain by catching up on US politics. {looks around news, social media} Blimey. {makes tea}
posted by Wordshore at 7:54 AM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
...is also the day of the UK General Election. Taking a break from compiling the FPP for that to work the other half of my brain by catching up on US politics. {looks around news, social media} Blimey. {makes tea}
posted by Wordshore at 7:54 AM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Something awful shitpost thread was "nevertheless, reality persisted"
posted by hleehowon at 7:55 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by hleehowon at 7:55 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Man, good job my hopes are super, super low or Thursday would have the potential to be devestating.
posted by Artw at 7:58 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:58 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yep, picking sides. Idiot. Blithering Idiot.
I can't remember who it was now, but someone I read just yesterday predicted A) Donnie would start tweeting against Qatar and B) the next week would see a rise in anti-Qatar talking points over the broader mediasphere.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:00 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I can't remember who it was now, but someone I read just yesterday predicted A) Donnie would start tweeting against Qatar and B) the next week would see a rise in anti-Qatar talking points over the broader mediasphere.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:00 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
After all the tweets about the travel ban, the fake arms deal, the announcement of Kushner being under investigation, and with Rogers and Comey testifying later in the week, Reince Priebus' cereal must be soggy with Bailey's.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:02 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:02 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
So good to see the Saudi Arabia visit with the King and 50 countries already paying off. They said they would take a hard line on funding extremism, and all reference was pointing to Qatar. Perhaps this will be the beginning of the end to the horror of terrorism!
This tweet seems problematic.
posted by diogenes at 8:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
This tweet seems problematic.
posted by diogenes at 8:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
Today is the 73rd anniversary of D-Day, and I actually broke down sobbing listening to FDR's radio prayer on the morning of June 6, 1944.
I went and looked for this on Youtube because History Channel apparently likes to be a buggy piece of shit.
Watching conservative "patriots" try to claim ownership of his ideals in the comments just broke my fucking brain.
posted by Talez at 8:06 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
I went and looked for this on Youtube because History Channel apparently likes to be a buggy piece of shit.
Watching conservative "patriots" try to claim ownership of his ideals in the comments just broke my fucking brain.
posted by Talez at 8:06 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
the next week would see a rise in anti-Qatar talking points over the broader mediasphere.
That orb that Trump laid hands on with the Saudi and Egyptian leaders? It was at an opening ceremony for a media war-room designed to do exactly that.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:08 AM on June 6, 2017 [27 favorites]
That orb that Trump laid hands on with the Saudi and Egyptian leaders? It was at an opening ceremony for a media war-room designed to do exactly that.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:08 AM on June 6, 2017 [27 favorites]
This tweet seems problematic.
Hi, my name is Don and I'm an assoholic.
posted by y2karl at 8:08 AM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
Hi, my name is Don and I'm an assoholic.
posted by y2karl at 8:08 AM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
I went and looked for this on Youtube because History Channel apparently likes to be a buggy piece of shit.
Yeah, on the 100th anniversary of the US's entry into World War I they had one half-hour documentary at 7 a.m., then a Pawn Stars marathon literally all day until 8 p.m., and then a Swamp People marathon for the rest of the evening. They've hit bottom.
posted by Melismata at 8:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [30 favorites]
Yeah, on the 100th anniversary of the US's entry into World War I they had one half-hour documentary at 7 a.m., then a Pawn Stars marathon literally all day until 8 p.m., and then a Swamp People marathon for the rest of the evening. They've hit bottom.
posted by Melismata at 8:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [30 favorites]
Reince Priebus' cereal must be soggy with Bailey's.
My favorite thing about being alive now is all the jokes about republicans and their booze-for-breakfast regimens. I also like the storyline where Boehner has been happily tanked all day every day since his resignation. My brain stopped developing in middle school.
Pittsburgh gets its colors from William Pitt's coat of arms. It is a gorgeous, smart, cultured city with a lovely long history, part of which is loving Primanti bros and pahndin beers and screaming and frothing about the stillers. Trump (and Romney before him) needs to keep Pittsburgh's name out of his vile mouth.
posted by Don Pepino at 8:11 AM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
My favorite thing about being alive now is all the jokes about republicans and their booze-for-breakfast regimens. I also like the storyline where Boehner has been happily tanked all day every day since his resignation. My brain stopped developing in middle school.
Pittsburgh gets its colors from William Pitt's coat of arms. It is a gorgeous, smart, cultured city with a lovely long history, part of which is loving Primanti bros and pahndin beers and screaming and frothing about the stillers. Trump (and Romney before him) needs to keep Pittsburgh's name out of his vile mouth.
posted by Don Pepino at 8:11 AM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
Today is also the anniversary of this speech of Robert F. Kennedy in Cape Town, South Africa in 1966.
"There is," said an Italian philosopher, "nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things." Yet this is the measure of the task of your generation, and the road is strewn with many dangers.
First, is the danger of futility: the belief there is nothing one man or one woman can do against the enormous array of the world's ills-against misery and ignorance, injustice and violence. Yet many of the world's greatest movements, of thought and action, have flowed from the work of a single man. A young monk began the Protestant Reformation, a young general extended an empire from Macedonia to the borders of the earth, and a young woman reclaimed the territory of France. It was a young Italian explorer who discovered the New World, and the thirty-two-year-old Thomas Jefferson who proclaimed that all men are created equal.
"Give me a place to stand," said Archimedes, "and I will move the world." These men moved the world, and so can we all. Few will have the greatness to bend history itself, but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation....
The second danger is that of expediency; of those who say that hopes and beliefs must bend before immediate necessities. Of course, if we would act effectively we must deal with the world as it is. We must get things done. But if there was one thing President Kennedy stood for that touched the most profound feelings of young people around the world, it was the belief that idealism, high aspirations, and deep convictions are not incompatible with the most practical and efficient of programs-that there is no basic inconsistency between ideals and realistic possibilities, no separation between the deepest desires of heart and of mind and the rational application of human effort to human problems. It is not realistic or hardheaded to solve problems and take action unguided by ultimate moral aims and values, although we all know some who claim that it is so. In my judgment, it is thoughtless folly. For it ignores the realities of human faith and of passion and of belief-forces ultimately more powerful than all of the calculations of our economists or of our generals. Of course to adhere to standards, to idealism, to vision in the face of immediate dangers takes great courage and takes self-confidence. But we also know that only those who dare to fail greatly, can ever achieve greatly.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:12 AM on June 6, 2017 [45 favorites]
"There is," said an Italian philosopher, "nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things." Yet this is the measure of the task of your generation, and the road is strewn with many dangers.
First, is the danger of futility: the belief there is nothing one man or one woman can do against the enormous array of the world's ills-against misery and ignorance, injustice and violence. Yet many of the world's greatest movements, of thought and action, have flowed from the work of a single man. A young monk began the Protestant Reformation, a young general extended an empire from Macedonia to the borders of the earth, and a young woman reclaimed the territory of France. It was a young Italian explorer who discovered the New World, and the thirty-two-year-old Thomas Jefferson who proclaimed that all men are created equal.
"Give me a place to stand," said Archimedes, "and I will move the world." These men moved the world, and so can we all. Few will have the greatness to bend history itself, but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation....
The second danger is that of expediency; of those who say that hopes and beliefs must bend before immediate necessities. Of course, if we would act effectively we must deal with the world as it is. We must get things done. But if there was one thing President Kennedy stood for that touched the most profound feelings of young people around the world, it was the belief that idealism, high aspirations, and deep convictions are not incompatible with the most practical and efficient of programs-that there is no basic inconsistency between ideals and realistic possibilities, no separation between the deepest desires of heart and of mind and the rational application of human effort to human problems. It is not realistic or hardheaded to solve problems and take action unguided by ultimate moral aims and values, although we all know some who claim that it is so. In my judgment, it is thoughtless folly. For it ignores the realities of human faith and of passion and of belief-forces ultimately more powerful than all of the calculations of our economists or of our generals. Of course to adhere to standards, to idealism, to vision in the face of immediate dangers takes great courage and takes self-confidence. But we also know that only those who dare to fail greatly, can ever achieve greatly.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:12 AM on June 6, 2017 [45 favorites]
In many very sensitive systems there are pre-built processes that tag specific searches/accesses. Even searching for some things might get you on a list to review. I used to work at a bank that had celebrities and other prominent people as customers. If you searched for accounts for people on that list you were immediately terminated unless you could be demonstrated to have needed to access their files for work.
I would be amazed if the government doesn't have search set up to evaluate need-to-know against user access but I suppose running government like a business by using contractors means that they don't actually have basic safeguards like that.
posted by winna at 8:13 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
I would be amazed if the government doesn't have search set up to evaluate need-to-know against user access but I suppose running government like a business by using contractors means that they don't actually have basic safeguards like that.
posted by winna at 8:13 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Jefferson Morley / AlterNet : Trump Is Selling a Privatization Scam, and Calling It an Infrastructure Plan
The switch: using 'public-private partnerships' to rebuild infrastructure, where the upfront construction costs are borne by governments, and private companies manage them and charge tolls.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [63 favorites]
President Trump’s original proposal for a $1 trillion infrastructure jobs plan was, in principle, a worthy idea, a practical way to create jobs and improve the country’s highways, bridges, railways, and airports. In reality, Trump’s jobs agenda is a sham that does not involve a trillion dollars, won't do much for the country's infrastructure and won’t create many jobs.The bait: a 'new' plan backed by a trillion dollars that promises cheaper, faster, safer travel.
...
Trump's still-vague proposal bears all the marks of a large-scale bait and switch sales pitch like the one Trump perfected in sellling fraudulent enterprises like the now-defunct Trump University to unsuspecting consumers.
The switch: using 'public-private partnerships' to rebuild infrastructure, where the upfront construction costs are borne by governments, and private companies manage them and charge tolls.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [63 favorites]
I would be amazed if the government doesn't have search set up to evaluate need-to-know against user access but I suppose running government like a business by using contractors means that they don't actually have basic safeguards like that.
There is such a system.
posted by Etrigan at 8:16 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
There is such a system.
posted by Etrigan at 8:16 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Security and CBRN specialist Dan Kaszeta posted a tweetstorm about how Trump's attacking the Mayor of London a few months before an official visit is phenomenally stupid:
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:17 AM on June 6, 2017 [134 favorites]
Speaking as someone who worked at the White House for 12 years in two relevant jobs and having done advances for foreign POTUS trips You do not want to deliberately antagonize the local authorities in the city where you are going to have a high profile POTUS visit. Safety, security, and efficiency of the visit rely heavily on a good working relationship with national, regional, and local authorities Someone like, say, the Mayor of London, has a million ways, some quite subtle, to make a POTUS visit to London quite awkward.And isn't it interesting how Trump didn't attack Manchester's mayor (Andy Burnham) after that city's terrorist attack, but did London's (Sadiq Khan) - what's the most obvious difference between them?
I've seen it first hand when local authorities want to make themselves difficult to work with, and it makes WH and USSS job terribly hard Picture a POTUS motorcade, without local police escort, chopped into bits of 5 cars each, ensnarled in central London traffic.... Imagine people somehow missing the coordination meetings. And the keys to the gate somehow being lost. These things can happen[.] On visits to the UK, USSS relies heavily on the Met Police for armed support. And the Mayor oversees the Met. Not to mention that there's ample scope for road works on whatever route they want to have POTUS take.... And suddenly Heathrow might not be able to take AF-1, and POTUS might have to do a lengthy motorcade from Lakenheath....
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:17 AM on June 6, 2017 [134 favorites]
what's the most obvious difference between them?
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
(sorry couldn't resist)
posted by Sophie1 at 8:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [74 favorites]
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
(sorry couldn't resist)
posted by Sophie1 at 8:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [74 favorites]
An interesting walkthrough of how Reality Winner was burned by printer dots.
posted by msbutah at 8:25 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by msbutah at 8:25 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
I would be amazed if the government doesn't have search set up to evaluate need-to-know against user access but I suppose running government like a business by using contractors means that they don't actually have basic safeguards like that.
There is such a system.
Yes, but I guess my point is that does that system also extend to contractor access? In other words, do contractor companies have the same safeguards in place or is it just assumed that they do while in reality there are big gaping holes?
Not that I am on the side of the witch hunt, but it is good to remind everyone that if you are on a network run by your employer they can pull up anything that happens on that network and if you're going to be smart you need to consider that anything down to individual keystrokes could be tracked and you would have no way of knowing.
posted by winna at 8:34 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
There is such a system.
Yes, but I guess my point is that does that system also extend to contractor access? In other words, do contractor companies have the same safeguards in place or is it just assumed that they do while in reality there are big gaping holes?
Not that I am on the side of the witch hunt, but it is good to remind everyone that if you are on a network run by your employer they can pull up anything that happens on that network and if you're going to be smart you need to consider that anything down to individual keystrokes could be tracked and you would have no way of knowing.
posted by winna at 8:34 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
> An interesting walkthrough of how Reality Winner was burned by printer dots.
Not sure I agree with the weird Third Amendment editorializing near the end, but otherwise this was a pretty good read.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 8:35 AM on June 6, 2017
Not sure I agree with the weird Third Amendment editorializing near the end, but otherwise this was a pretty good read.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 8:35 AM on June 6, 2017
Mod note: Couple comments deleted. Folks, as always, please try to minimize noise comments, chitchat, etc. If the thread has a quiet moment, you don't need to fill it.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:39 AM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:39 AM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's blowing my mind that Reality Winner was outed the same way as the bully in the "To Catch a Creep" storyline of the classic PBS show "Ghostwriter". What is wrong with my brain that the first thing it goes to in situations like this is a detail from a TV show I saw when I was 6.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 8:43 AM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 8:43 AM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yes, but I guess my point is that does that system also extend to contractor access?
The person who was caught in the linked article was a contractor. Most government contractors work on the actual government systems (I have), not their own cloned systems that contain duplicates of sensitive information.
posted by Etrigan at 8:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
The person who was caught in the linked article was a contractor. Most government contractors work on the actual government systems (I have), not their own cloned systems that contain duplicates of sensitive information.
posted by Etrigan at 8:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
You know how Trump is known to be a big cheater at golf (per Samuel L. Jackson no less)?
Well, he has quite the record at his golf club in Bedminster.
Somehow I'm reminded of Michael Keaton in Mr. Mom throwing the race at the company picnic so Teri Garr's asshole boss could win.
posted by chris24 at 8:49 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, he has quite the record at his golf club in Bedminster.
Somehow I'm reminded of Michael Keaton in Mr. Mom throwing the race at the company picnic so Teri Garr's asshole boss could win.
posted by chris24 at 8:49 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
UK election systems remain all paper. The count is done by hand on the night of the ballot.
pharm I wish we had that nationwide here. I'm all for the low tech solution if it works! Do you guys have security people watching the counters? Like do the ballots get escorted to the counting headquarters or how does that work? (serious question)
If you look at poll workers here in the US, they seem easily befuddled by anomalies of any kind. (I think most are volunteers, but I don't know what kind of training/certs they have to get.)
In my brain I see them treating the paper ballots as valuably as money, & moving them around in armoured cars.
posted by yoga at 8:49 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
pharm I wish we had that nationwide here. I'm all for the low tech solution if it works! Do you guys have security people watching the counters? Like do the ballots get escorted to the counting headquarters or how does that work? (serious question)
If you look at poll workers here in the US, they seem easily befuddled by anomalies of any kind. (I think most are volunteers, but I don't know what kind of training/certs they have to get.)
In my brain I see them treating the paper ballots as valuably as money, & moving them around in armoured cars.
posted by yoga at 8:49 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
A TV Hack Appears to Have Sparked the Middle East's Diplomatic Crisis (Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai, Motherboard):
posted by autopilot at 8:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [39 favorites]
On May 23, the state-owned Qatar News Agency (QNA) broadcast a report about the country's leader, the Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, making a speech at a military graduation ceremony. In a ticker, the TV news story showed a series of alleged remarks by Sheikh Tamim, calling Qatar's relations with Iran and Israel as "strong" and "good," according to the Washington Post. Around the same time, QNA started posting similar quotes on Twitter. [...]The closing quote is a chilling tweet by @SultanAlQassemi: "It's no longer about the hack [...] It's like in The Great War, by day two no one cared who killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand."
Qatari government authorities denied the veracity of those quotes, calling the reports "fake videos" and saying the QNA was "hacked by an unknown entity." The Saudis didn't buy Qatar's explanation.
posted by autopilot at 8:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [39 favorites]
UK election systems remain all paper. The count is done by hand on the night of the ballot.
If I'm not mistaken, it's a very focused ballot too, with just the one race for Parliamentary representation.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
If I'm not mistaken, it's a very focused ballot too, with just the one race for Parliamentary representation.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's also a tension between compartmentalization/granular determination of need-to-know and giving analysts enough information to do their jobs effectively. Many people working on these projects already believe overclassification is a problem, and if you try to a priori determine which specific documents everyone will need, you run the risk of epistemic closure that keeps dots from being connected. Determination of need-to-know mostly happens at the human level -- there's no magic bauble hanging from your badge that says you need the detailed plans for the green widgets, but only the high-level specifications for the red ones.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've seen it first hand when local authorities want to make themselves difficult to work with, and it makes WH and USSS job terribly hard Picture a POTUS motorcade, without local police escort, chopped into bits of 5 cars each, ensnarled in central London traffic.... Imagine people somehow missing the coordination meetings. And the keys to the gate somehow being lost. These things can happen[.] On visits to the UK, USSS relies heavily on the Met Police for armed support. And the Mayor oversees the Met. Not to mention that there's ample scope for road works on whatever route they want to have POTUS take.... And suddenly Heathrow might not be able to take AF-1, and POTUS might have to do a lengthy motorcade from Lakenheath....
He doesn't need to do any of this.
All he needs to do is dictate that the route go somewhere with lots of sidewalk space and every yob in England will come and drop trou. Probably lots of yobbos too since a big chunk of the wounded were members of London's antipodean pub mafia.
posted by srboisvert at 8:58 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
He doesn't need to do any of this.
All he needs to do is dictate that the route go somewhere with lots of sidewalk space and every yob in England will come and drop trou. Probably lots of yobbos too since a big chunk of the wounded were members of London's antipodean pub mafia.
posted by srboisvert at 8:58 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
The NJ 2017 primary is today, and it includes the governor's race. The Dem frontrunner is Phil Murphy, a Goldman Sachs guy, and I would encourage y'all to go vote against him if you can.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:00 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:00 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
White House Will Battle Comey Without a War Room
As to why Donald cannot hire a top-level law firm: "The guy won't pay and he won't listen."
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [84 favorites]
As to why Donald cannot hire a top-level law firm: "The guy won't pay and he won't listen."
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [84 favorites]
pharm I wish we had [hand-counting] nationwide here. I'm all for the low tech solution if it works!
Hand counting is well suited to UK parliamentary elections as there's just the one race on the ballot. Hand-counting is not very well suited to counting American-style ballots with ballpark 50 races and issues on the same ballot, as it's very easy to look at one thing and count another. ISTR a study showing a 1-2\% error rate? Try grading a scantron exam by hand sometime to see what I mean; it's an infuriatingly terrible experience.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:06 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Hand counting is well suited to UK parliamentary elections as there's just the one race on the ballot. Hand-counting is not very well suited to counting American-style ballots with ballpark 50 races and issues on the same ballot, as it's very easy to look at one thing and count another. ISTR a study showing a 1-2\% error rate? Try grading a scantron exam by hand sometime to see what I mean; it's an infuriatingly terrible experience.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:06 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Russian jet intercepts US B-52 bomber: Russian fighter jet intercepted a US bomber over the Baltic Sea in international waters on Tuesday, according to a statement from the Russian Defense Ministry that was published on state news agency TASS.
"On June 6 Russia's airspace monitoring ... identified an air target flying along Russia's state border over the international waters of the Baltic Sea. A Sukhoi-27 fighter jet of the Baltic Sea Fleet's air defense force was dispatched to intercept the target," according to the statement, quoted by TASS.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:07 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
"On June 6 Russia's airspace monitoring ... identified an air target flying along Russia's state border over the international waters of the Baltic Sea. A Sukhoi-27 fighter jet of the Baltic Sea Fleet's air defense force was dispatched to intercept the target," according to the statement, quoted by TASS.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:07 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
So, Thanks Planet Earth - it was fun while it lasted
posted by growabrain at 9:08 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by growabrain at 9:08 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sometimes, low tech is good tech. Also, hand counts provide lots of drama on election night which everyone secretly enjoys immensely so I can't see them going away anytime soon.
I'm an American, and watching the UK general election results come in is one of my favorite televised rituals. The BBC cuts live to various community centers and gymnasia where strapping young students are rushing ballot boxes to the counters. An official from the local council takes the stage and all the local candidates, even the minor party ones, get up there wearing their party rosettes and listen as the winner is announced. It's such an adorably pure image of democracy, and I love it.
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 AM on June 6, 2017 [33 favorites]
I'm an American, and watching the UK general election results come in is one of my favorite televised rituals. The BBC cuts live to various community centers and gymnasia where strapping young students are rushing ballot boxes to the counters. An official from the local council takes the stage and all the local candidates, even the minor party ones, get up there wearing their party rosettes and listen as the winner is announced. It's such an adorably pure image of democracy, and I love it.
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 AM on June 6, 2017 [33 favorites]
Over the last couple of weeks, I was in a professional development class without access to the news for most of it, so it was very strange to come home and catch up on the totally bonkers news that came out nearly everyday.
I was, however, able to talk a bit of politics during that time. Mostly folks seemed to be extremely frustrated and angry with the administration's racist, sexist, xenophobic, and generally hateful policies and rhetoric. One woman, though, a Sanders supporter, insisted on multiple occasions that Hillary Clinton was super corrupt--I tried to gently push back, saying that I found her honest with actual plans on what to do both domestically and abroad. Didn't seem to get much traction though :(. She did seem to think that there was Russian interference in the election, though.
I also got together with my bestie and their mom, who is an ex-Republican* and mega-disgusted with that awful man. Friend's mom seemed convinced that the way to get him impeached and to change things was by pressuring moderate Republicans--which...I don't totally disagree with, but a) there are so few truly moderate Republicans left that they have little influence and b) they can't win elections with moderate policy appeals and rhetoric. She held up McCain as a moderate who is standing up to Trump, although I pointed out that he keeps voting to approve his policies and corrupt, unqualified nominees. I noted how Susan Collins (and Lisa Murkowski) allowed Betsy DeVos through committee, so they could vote against her on the Senate Floor.
In all the cases of talking deep in politics, though, I felt like a conspiracy theorist. I've been tuned strongly into domestic political news for nearly 2 straight years now (wtf), and the rabbit hole of corruption, nepotism, potential treason, and all-around levels of gross stupidity goes so deep that it's hard not to seem wild-eyed and frantic, just in trying to communicate about it. Plus, trying to remember timelines, dates, sources, and all that makes for conversations that are easy to derail or easy to dismiss.
There's so much information coming so fast that integrating it into a coherent narrative for folks not closely following it becomes exceedingly difficult. So many people are so disgusted and upset by our national politics that keeping up with this unending torrent of bullshit is bad for their health--and I can't blame them.
Anyway, I feel somewhat disconnected from peeps who aren't following this disaster closely because the topic is so large--the corruption, the terrible legislation, the hate, the rank incompetence, the complicity of the Republican party...it's all tied up so tightly that tugging on one string brings in three or four more, and then I'm back to sounding like I belong on the X-Files.
*I want friend's mother, corb, Jennifer Rubin, and Evan McMullin to start a new party that's actually puts up politicians loyal to our country. I would fight their policies probably, but uhh, at least I'd feel like we were playing for the same team...
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [59 favorites]
I was, however, able to talk a bit of politics during that time. Mostly folks seemed to be extremely frustrated and angry with the administration's racist, sexist, xenophobic, and generally hateful policies and rhetoric. One woman, though, a Sanders supporter, insisted on multiple occasions that Hillary Clinton was super corrupt--I tried to gently push back, saying that I found her honest with actual plans on what to do both domestically and abroad. Didn't seem to get much traction though :(. She did seem to think that there was Russian interference in the election, though.
I also got together with my bestie and their mom, who is an ex-Republican* and mega-disgusted with that awful man. Friend's mom seemed convinced that the way to get him impeached and to change things was by pressuring moderate Republicans--which...I don't totally disagree with, but a) there are so few truly moderate Republicans left that they have little influence and b) they can't win elections with moderate policy appeals and rhetoric. She held up McCain as a moderate who is standing up to Trump, although I pointed out that he keeps voting to approve his policies and corrupt, unqualified nominees. I noted how Susan Collins (and Lisa Murkowski) allowed Betsy DeVos through committee, so they could vote against her on the Senate Floor.
In all the cases of talking deep in politics, though, I felt like a conspiracy theorist. I've been tuned strongly into domestic political news for nearly 2 straight years now (wtf), and the rabbit hole of corruption, nepotism, potential treason, and all-around levels of gross stupidity goes so deep that it's hard not to seem wild-eyed and frantic, just in trying to communicate about it. Plus, trying to remember timelines, dates, sources, and all that makes for conversations that are easy to derail or easy to dismiss.
There's so much information coming so fast that integrating it into a coherent narrative for folks not closely following it becomes exceedingly difficult. So many people are so disgusted and upset by our national politics that keeping up with this unending torrent of bullshit is bad for their health--and I can't blame them.
Anyway, I feel somewhat disconnected from peeps who aren't following this disaster closely because the topic is so large--the corruption, the terrible legislation, the hate, the rank incompetence, the complicity of the Republican party...it's all tied up so tightly that tugging on one string brings in three or four more, and then I'm back to sounding like I belong on the X-Files.
*I want friend's mother, corb, Jennifer Rubin, and Evan McMullin to start a new party that's actually puts up politicians loyal to our country. I would fight their policies probably, but uhh, at least I'd feel like we were playing for the same team...
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [59 favorites]
Trump Organization to Go Budget Friendly With ‘American Idea’ Hotel Chain
What's the chances the TV will only show reruns of Father Knows Best.
posted by Talez at 9:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
On Monday, the Trump Organization announced plans for a new three-star hotel chain with a patriotic flair, echoing President Trump’s campaign slogan about putting America first and reflecting the organization’s promise to enter into new deals only in the United States. The intention is to differentiate the chain, called American Idea, by featuring artifacts of American culture in the hotels, such as an old Coca-Cola machine in the lobby or American-made sundries in the rooms.[real]
What's the chances the TV will only show reruns of Father Knows Best.
posted by Talez at 9:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
7. When you receive a document anonymously in the mail, as a reporter you are free to use it as you wish, by mailing it anonymously
8. The source has given you permission to use the document any way you wish, they are expected to have done the leg work to make sure
This is the point I hop off the train. There has to be some joint responsibility to protect the source here. And revealing unnecessary details like the postmark city to a person with a legal obligation to report a breech of classified information to their superiors is well over the line.
I get it. You receive these papers anonymously in the mail and have to somehow check them out, verify them, contextualize them, and you can't do that without talking to someone. There aren't a lot of good options here. But this can't all be on the source.
posted by zachlipton at 9:14 AM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
8. The source has given you permission to use the document any way you wish, they are expected to have done the leg work to make sure
This is the point I hop off the train. There has to be some joint responsibility to protect the source here. And revealing unnecessary details like the postmark city to a person with a legal obligation to report a breech of classified information to their superiors is well over the line.
I get it. You receive these papers anonymously in the mail and have to somehow check them out, verify them, contextualize them, and you can't do that without talking to someone. There aren't a lot of good options here. But this can't all be on the source.
posted by zachlipton at 9:14 AM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
Trump Organization to Go Budget Friendly With ‘American Idea’ Hotel Chain
For travelers who think La Quinta sounds too ethnic.
posted by peeedro at 9:14 AM on June 6, 2017 [62 favorites]
For travelers who think La Quinta sounds too ethnic.
posted by peeedro at 9:14 AM on June 6, 2017 [62 favorites]
I can't think of a more darkly ironic and unwittingly self-damning name for it than "American Idea." We're talking Reality Winner levels of implausible writing.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Robert Costa: Trump expected to tweet during Comey testimony (MSNBC video)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
The intention is to differentiate the chain, called American Idea, by featuring artifacts of American culture in the hotels, such as an old Coca-Cola machine in the lobby...
Odd. Every budget hotel I've ever stayed at in the States already had an old Coca-Cola machine in the lobby.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [41 favorites]
Odd. Every budget hotel I've ever stayed at in the States already had an old Coca-Cola machine in the lobby.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [41 favorites]
Robert Costa: Trump expected to tweet during Comey testimony
I feel like this matches up perfectly with the "why won't lawyers represent Trump?" story above.
Some DC bars are opening early for the hearing (with sound on), offering Russian vodka specials and covfefe cocktails.
posted by zachlipton at 9:18 AM on June 6, 2017 [49 favorites]
I feel like this matches up perfectly with the "why won't lawyers represent Trump?" story above.
Some DC bars are opening early for the hearing (with sound on), offering Russian vodka specials and covfefe cocktails.
posted by zachlipton at 9:18 AM on June 6, 2017 [49 favorites]
Every budget hotel I've ever stayed at in the States already had an old Coca-Cola machine in the lobby.
No but like a really old one. Or at least a brand new designed to look like a really old one except it takes credit cards and the Cokes are in plastic bottles and cost $3.
posted by contraption at 9:18 AM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
No but like a really old one. Or at least a brand new designed to look like a really old one except it takes credit cards and the Cokes are in plastic bottles and cost $3.
posted by contraption at 9:18 AM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Robert Costa: Trump expected to tweet during Comey testimony
Or as I like to call it; contemporaneous obstruction of justice.
posted by chris24 at 9:19 AM on June 6, 2017 [33 favorites]
Or as I like to call it; contemporaneous obstruction of justice.
posted by chris24 at 9:19 AM on June 6, 2017 [33 favorites]
Robert Costa: Trump expected to tweet during Comey testimony
Mr. President, let me introduce my new social media platform: SelfIncriminatr. It sounds perfect for your needs.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:19 AM on June 6, 2017 [31 favorites]
Mr. President, let me introduce my new social media platform: SelfIncriminatr. It sounds perfect for your needs.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:19 AM on June 6, 2017 [31 favorites]
Tweet thread from Barton Gellman about how The Intercept could and should have protected Winner, who probably would have been the lead suspect anyway based on her own conduct.
It handed USG a color copy of original doc & told a clearance-holding contractor the doc was mailed from Augusta. Where source lives.
Even without the printer’s microdot fingerprint, a copy can ID source. Good practice is to tell USG title and date, then discuss content.
When reproducing online, either retype or take tech steps to strip metadata and identifying micro-images.
posted by gladly at 9:19 AM on June 6, 2017 [43 favorites]
It handed USG a color copy of original doc & told a clearance-holding contractor the doc was mailed from Augusta. Where source lives.
Even without the printer’s microdot fingerprint, a copy can ID source. Good practice is to tell USG title and date, then discuss content.
When reproducing online, either retype or take tech steps to strip metadata and identifying micro-images.
posted by gladly at 9:19 AM on June 6, 2017 [43 favorites]
Robert Costa: Trump expected to tweet during Comey testimony.
... we're going to need a bigger thread.
posted by lydhre at 9:21 AM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
... we're going to need a bigger thread.
posted by lydhre at 9:21 AM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
Is someone putting together "Comey hearing Bingo" or at least a drinking game?
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:21 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:21 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
The stories of "potential vote hacking" remind me of the alarmist tales that arose in the Early '00s, and I was frankly pleasantly surprised when the Democrats won back Congress in '06, but in '08, I thought this Simpsons bit was going to be the story, but it wasn't. But after that, Obama and the D's took their eyes off the prize while the Republicans perfected their ratfucking just in time for the 2010 elections and subsequent reapportionment. It's possible that the combination of the 'new guard' at the DNC together with the rising independent Left & Liberal groups could repeat the successes of '06 in '18, and the Perez/Ellison DNC tag team seem closer to Howard Dean than anyone else in charge there since him, which raises hopes. The SuperPACs have given the Republicans in all the special elections an incredible $$$ edge (much like life was before the Clintons made the D's more 'business friendly' in the '90s), and it's not really going to be enough if Ossoff in Georgia "comes closer than anybody expected" but still loses.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:22 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:22 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
at least a drinking game?
Are you trying to kill Metafilter by alcohol poisoning?
posted by Talez at 9:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
Are you trying to kill Metafilter by alcohol poisoning?
posted by Talez at 9:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
Mr. President, let me introduce my new social media platform: SelfIncriminatr. It sounds perfect for your needs.
I'm giving even odds we get a "You're goddamn right I ordered the code red" tweet.
posted by chris24 at 9:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
I'm giving even odds we get a "You're goddamn right I ordered the code red" tweet.
posted by chris24 at 9:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
> Anyway, I feel somewhat disconnected from peeps who aren't following this disaster closely because the topic is so large--the corruption, the terrible legislation, the hate, the rank incompetence, the complicity of the Republican party...it's all tied up so tightly that tugging on one string brings in three or four more, and then I'm back to sounding like I belong on the X-Files.
We are all Charlie Kelly in the Pepe Silvia scene.
The key for me to avoid feeling like a conspiracy theorist has been to periodically re-check my assumptions and try to tie my beliefs about what's going on back to primary sources speaking on the record. That still leaves a lot of gaps, but the Comey testimony and the ripple effects that creates will fill some of those in, but there's a lot of information out there showing in great detail how corrupt this administration and the Trump family have been.
The Russia tie-ins rely more on connecting dots, but I think it's fine to say that, regardless of whether we can conclusively show quid pro quo, the quid is there, and that's enough to show that members of the administration have, at best, divided loyalties.
The atomic details know already are bad enough that I'm not as worried about settling on a unified Panghazi theory of Trumpist fuckery. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy -- maybe it's just a bunch of assholes being assholes.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
We are all Charlie Kelly in the Pepe Silvia scene.
The key for me to avoid feeling like a conspiracy theorist has been to periodically re-check my assumptions and try to tie my beliefs about what's going on back to primary sources speaking on the record. That still leaves a lot of gaps, but the Comey testimony and the ripple effects that creates will fill some of those in, but there's a lot of information out there showing in great detail how corrupt this administration and the Trump family have been.
The Russia tie-ins rely more on connecting dots, but I think it's fine to say that, regardless of whether we can conclusively show quid pro quo, the quid is there, and that's enough to show that members of the administration have, at best, divided loyalties.
The atomic details know already are bad enough that I'm not as worried about settling on a unified Panghazi theory of Trumpist fuckery. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy -- maybe it's just a bunch of assholes being assholes.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:23 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Robert Costa: Trump expected to tweet during Comey testimony yt (MSNBC video)
FFS, I was half-joking about this last night with Mr. Cardinal.
Possible actions that The Douche Canoe might undertake:
-Admits to a crime accidentally
-Admits to a crime gleefully and on purpose
-Insults Comey
-Insults Comey and the whole Senate Intelligence Committee
-Whines about the courts and doubles down on the Travel Ban
-Explicitly calls the Travel Ban, "the Muslim Travel Ban"
-Insults allies
-Reveals current classified intelligence
-Praises Mike Flynn
-Praises Putin, Erdogan, Duerte, or other autocrat
-Says something antisemitic
-Retweets Russian Propaganda
-Admits to recent contact with Mike Flynn
-Has some sort of major vascular failure either in the heart or brain due to stress
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:25 AM on June 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
FFS, I was half-joking about this last night with Mr. Cardinal.
Possible actions that The Douche Canoe might undertake:
-Admits to a crime accidentally
-Admits to a crime gleefully and on purpose
-Insults Comey
-Insults Comey and the whole Senate Intelligence Committee
-Whines about the courts and doubles down on the Travel Ban
-Explicitly calls the Travel Ban, "the Muslim Travel Ban"
-Insults allies
-Reveals current classified intelligence
-Praises Mike Flynn
-Praises Putin, Erdogan, Duerte, or other autocrat
-Says something antisemitic
-Retweets Russian Propaganda
-Admits to recent contact with Mike Flynn
-Has some sort of major vascular failure either in the heart or brain due to stress
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:25 AM on June 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
So good to see the Saudi Arabia visit with the King and 50 countries already paying off. They said they would take a hard line on funding extremism, and all reference was pointing to Qatar. Perhaps this will be the beginning of the end to the horror of terrorism!
yet another way this administration is sui generis - has there ever in history been a head of state of any country who was this credulous to obvious propaganda?
apparently the "takes on the opinion of the last voice he heard" phenomenon works for leaders of other countries as long as you give him a medal first.
maybe the G7 summit would have gone better if they had given him a Climate Change Champion trophy at the beginning.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:27 AM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
yet another way this administration is sui generis - has there ever in history been a head of state of any country who was this credulous to obvious propaganda?
apparently the "takes on the opinion of the last voice he heard" phenomenon works for leaders of other countries as long as you give him a medal first.
maybe the G7 summit would have gone better if they had given him a Climate Change Champion trophy at the beginning.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:27 AM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
Eh, the Intercept really fucked up here and they deserve all the blame they're getting, particularly given that they have experts on staff.
EDIT: always refresh before posting!
posted by longdaysjourney at 9:29 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
EDIT: always refresh before posting!
posted by longdaysjourney at 9:29 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Just a thought about the wall-to-wall live coverage of the Comey Show on Thursday... since it's going to pre-empt The Price Is Right on CBS, it may be a good idea to set up a Plinko board in the hearing room.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:30 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:30 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
An aside that has little to do with news but something to do with resistance and hope. My kids just graduated from elementary school. Apparently there is such a thing as a national education achievement award, a ceremonial thing that comes from the White House. All the kids with an A average get it.
Before naming the winners, the principal read the official letter. It's first-person boilerplate: 'You have shown the value of hard work, I believe the country needs high-achievers like you... ' or some such thing. And then, the principal hesitates for just a second in reading one line: 'And Melania and I are proud to recognize you...'
The principal gets to the end, and then, when it would be natural to say, 'signed, President Donald J. Trump' and invoke the president's name as an honor-- well, nothing. The principal goes right into announcing the kids' names.
Afterward I approached the principal semi-privately and said, 'I'm going to let you take the fifth, here, but I noticed you didn't say the president's name at the end of the letter, and I thank you for not bringing that name into this day.' I got a quick but very real smile in return.
Little things, denying the usual recognitions, seeing the president's name not as an honor but as a diminishment, at least as something that shouldn't be said on a happy day. These things count.
(I do wish my kids had graduated last year and received a certificate signed by President Barack Obama. Or in the alt-universe, signed by President Hillary Clinton. Sigh.)
posted by martin q blank at 9:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [143 favorites]
Before naming the winners, the principal read the official letter. It's first-person boilerplate: 'You have shown the value of hard work, I believe the country needs high-achievers like you... ' or some such thing. And then, the principal hesitates for just a second in reading one line: 'And Melania and I are proud to recognize you...'
The principal gets to the end, and then, when it would be natural to say, 'signed, President Donald J. Trump' and invoke the president's name as an honor-- well, nothing. The principal goes right into announcing the kids' names.
Afterward I approached the principal semi-privately and said, 'I'm going to let you take the fifth, here, but I noticed you didn't say the president's name at the end of the letter, and I thank you for not bringing that name into this day.' I got a quick but very real smile in return.
Little things, denying the usual recognitions, seeing the president's name not as an honor but as a diminishment, at least as something that shouldn't be said on a happy day. These things count.
(I do wish my kids had graduated last year and received a certificate signed by President Barack Obama. Or in the alt-universe, signed by President Hillary Clinton. Sigh.)
posted by martin q blank at 9:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [143 favorites]
The switch: using 'public-private partnerships' to rebuild infrastructure, where the upfront construction costs are borne by governments, and private companies manage them and charge tolls.
Oh, CHRIST. Ask anyone in Ontario how that works out.
(What time is Comey on Thursday? Asking for someone who foolishly booked a doctor's appointment that day.)
posted by maudlin at 9:35 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh, CHRIST. Ask anyone in Ontario how that works out.
(What time is Comey on Thursday? Asking for someone who foolishly booked a doctor's appointment that day.)
posted by maudlin at 9:35 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Party starts at 9 am CST.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:38 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:38 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sorry, guys. Comey is going to be more nothingburgers. It's nothingburgers all the way down. I'm not even convinced that he's the enemy of our enemy.
posted by jferg at 9:38 AM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by jferg at 9:38 AM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
"a fragment of an underdone potato" , by that, you mean Jeff Sessions? I have been looking for a mascot to characterize the creature Jeff Sessions.
posted by Oyéah at 9:40 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 9:40 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
AP: Trump schedules speech during Comey testimony
President Donald Trump has scheduled a speech addressing religious conservatives around the same time that former FBI director James Comey is expected to testify before Congress.posted by Mister Fabulous at 9:40 AM on June 6, 2017
The Faith and Freedom Coalition’s “Road to Majority” conference announced Tuesday that the president had agreed to address the annual gathering Thursday.
Faith and Freedom spokesman Lance Lemmonds says the president is expected to speak at 12:30 p.m. EDT.
Comey is scheduled to testify Thursday before the Senate intelligence committee beginning at 10 a.m. that day.
Comey has already previewed his testimony. It's definitely something.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:41 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:41 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
reality has few rules, but key among them is, nobody wins
posted by philip-random at 9:41 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 9:41 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
See, I read vornado as urnado which is joint venture then imagine the hilarity that ensues. Reality Winner. Very interesting. Sounds like a code name for something in Vegas, so I always ask myself, is this something the NSA is not too alarmed about because it leaked but of course they are VERY alarmed if anything
leaks.
posted by clavdivs at 9:42 AM on June 6, 2017
leaks.
posted by clavdivs at 9:42 AM on June 6, 2017
The closing quote is a chilling tweet by @SultanAlQassemi: "It's no longer about the hack [...] It's like in The Great War, by day two no one cared who killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand."
I already worry that Comeygate is going to be our Caillaux trial. Reading this...doesn't help.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 9:42 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I already worry that Comeygate is going to be our Caillaux trial. Reading this...doesn't help.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 9:42 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
You guys. Tomorrow is Mike Pence's birthday.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:43 AM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:43 AM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
Possible actions that The Douche Canoe might undertake:
-Admits to a crime accidentally
-Admits to a crime gleefully and on purpose
-Insults Comey
-Insults Comey and the whole Senate Intelligence Committee
-Whines about the courts and doubles down on the Travel Ban
-Explicitly calls the Travel Ban, "the Muslim Travel Ban"
-Insults allies
-Reveals current classified intelligence
-Praises Mike Flynn
-Praises Putin, Erdogan, Duerte, or other autocrat
-Says something antisemitic
-Retweets Russian Propaganda
-Admits to recent contact with Mike Flynn
-Has some sort of major vascular failure either in the heart or brain due to stress
Sounds like Douche Canoe Twitter Bingo, to me. Quick, someone make a bingo card.
posted by papercake at 9:43 AM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
-Admits to a crime accidentally
-Admits to a crime gleefully and on purpose
-Insults Comey
-Insults Comey and the whole Senate Intelligence Committee
-Whines about the courts and doubles down on the Travel Ban
-Explicitly calls the Travel Ban, "the Muslim Travel Ban"
-Insults allies
-Reveals current classified intelligence
-Praises Mike Flynn
-Praises Putin, Erdogan, Duerte, or other autocrat
-Says something antisemitic
-Retweets Russian Propaganda
-Admits to recent contact with Mike Flynn
-Has some sort of major vascular failure either in the heart or brain due to stress
Sounds like Douche Canoe Twitter Bingo, to me. Quick, someone make a bingo card.
posted by papercake at 9:43 AM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
Some DC bars are opening early for the hearing (with sound on), offering Russian vodka specials and covfefe cocktails.
Joke's on you, Shaw's Tavern! Most of DC will be drinking at their desks.
posted by solotoro at 9:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Joke's on you, Shaw's Tavern! Most of DC will be drinking at their desks.
posted by solotoro at 9:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Need to scream? Want to learn how to do it without hurting yourself? I was looking up a vocal technique question, and found this invitation from a singing teacher:
When painful feelings arise, it can be instinctive to shut down your breathing in order to diminish the unpleasant thoughts, impulses and sensations that accompany them. But in so doing, you also diminish your ability to express these feelings and reach out to others for help, compassion, and solidarity. Singing can teach you to tolerate and breathe through the initial discomfort of such feelings and then give voice to them.posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 9:45 AM on June 6, 2017 [58 favorites]
If you’re reticent about expressing your opinion even when the stakes are high, a practice that exhorts you to engage in making loud or even ridiculous sounds can help you build the confidence and vocal coordination to speak up and stand your ground.
And should you find yourself in the grip of a primal scream, unleashing it through a relaxed and well-primed throat will protect you from becoming hoarse and your listeners from feeling assaulted. Screaming is generally only painful and assaultive when the impulse to vent is met with chronic or habitual muscular tension in your throat. The relative calm and coordination developed through singing technique can prepare you to vent in comfort and safety.
It is now more important than ever for people to feel as though their individual voices can have an impact. So here is the contribution I would like to make: If you have felt like screaming uncontrollably lately and would like to learn some strategies to make your utterances helpful for yourself and others, I invite you to see me for a free 30-minute session, either in person or online via Skype or FaceTime. It is not necessary that you have any singing training or musical ambition, just that you feel a need for some support in expressing yourself at this crucial moment in our nation’s history.
My husband noted that Reality Winner is totally a Phillip K Dick name and that explains a lot about this timeline.
I keep thinking we’re living in a simulation. Then I stub my toe and that thought goes away.
But things like this make it persist. Not just this – all of it, I mean, stuff like Limbaugh – a loudmouth propagandist that is also DEAF. Or the Oscars ( “La La Land” vs. “Moonlight”). Trumps election – not just improbable, all this stuff is so implausible. The Superbowl – all razzle dazzle, reversal of fortune, and didn’t you have the feeling beforehand it was going to be an exceptional game? Like we all knew the guy playing the Patriots would just button mash and somehow pull off a bizarre win. (It helps that this didn’t occur apart from the political polarity – Trump predicted an 8 point win by the Patriots, and the Super Bowl became a sort of political focal point with the Patriots, most recently accused of cheating, and most certainly a sort of winning machine vs. the Falcons from a majority black city. And the Pats down 27-3 suddenly come up with a miracle and win by 6)
Like we’re living in one of the Nick Bostrum universes where people are simulating “what if Trump won…hm. Ok, what if it got worse and worse? How bizarre can we make this before people start freaking out?”
And they keep changing things but not quite perfectly. Mandela didn’t die in jail, the Berenstein Bears are Berenstain Bears, Sinbad wasn’t a genie in the 90’s
You know, you look at history and the apocalypse and one laughs at how stupid those people must have been to think the world was coming to an end. And yet, doesn’t it sort of map over to our world view? That things have gotten so damn weird it must be some sort of snafu or glitch in the universe?
To be fair, she seems to be of the generation of AF members who named their kids odd things. Buddy of mine was dating an AF girl named “Free.”
But did that really happen in my past? Or was that fact retro-inserted into my past to make this more plausible? *chuckle*
I think Trump is causing a glitch by creating a recursive loop in reality. The whole “fake news” thing. The “attacks in Sweden” and/or Kellyanne Conway’s “Bowling Green massacre” and ““alternative facts.”etc, where he tries to assert a new reality and then comments on the new reality and it reiterates into this whole other thing that becomes the new reality. We all know it’s a distortion from the outset, but we get trapped into talking about that instead of actual reality.
Yeah, it’s kind of a joke. I mean, he’s just an evil bastard doing a poor front man job for other evil bastards. But what if it’s not just mundane lying?
Thinking about Jungian synchronicity, the collective unconsciousness...
If Trump, and others, are engaging in a sort of Orwellian Reality Control (“The Party said that Oceania had never been in alliance with Eurasia. He, Winston Smith, knew that Oceania had been in alliance with Eurasia as short a time as four years ago. But where did that knowledge exist? Only in his own consciousness, which in any case must soon be annihilated. And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. ‘Who controls the past,’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’”)
Isn’t it possible that reality – or at least those who appreciate reality, push back?
E.O. Wilson uses the term biophilia for the innate tendency or urge to affiliate with other forms of life and lifelike processes.
“Biophilia, like other patterns of complex learning behavior, is likely to be mediated by rules of prepared and counterprepared learning – the tendency to learn or to resist learning responses as opposed to others – the feelings molded by the learning rules fall along several emotional spectra: from attraction to aversion, from awe to indifference, from peacefulness to fear-driven anxiety.”
What is Trump and people like him if not biophobic? Preferring the artifice over the natural.
I think Reality Winner’s name is an indication that this process, the complex learned behavior based on the appreciation of life and lifelike processes, is in conflict with the process of fear-driven anxiety in opposition to life processes.
It sounds more complex than it is.
Some shitheads hate life and nature and try to distort and twist it to their own ends (typically artifices like money) and people who like connecting with other people and life resist them because things like the acquisition of wealth is meaningless while making connections and understanding are meaningful.
"The least of things with a meaning is worth more in life than the greatest of things without it." - Jung
The phobic tends to regress into diminishing possible responses. Less and less freedom. Which leads to self-destruction. Plenty of collateral damage in the meantime though.
"The man who promises everything is sure to fulfill nothing, and everyone who promises too much is in danger of using evil means in order to carry out his promises, and is already on the road to perdition." - Jung
So the best way to speed this process (their self-destruction) is to augment our commitment to connections, life, meaningful interaction all that. Any support Reality Winner (or any whistleblower) needs, in this case (there's a gofundme out there too).
posted by Smedleyman at 9:46 AM on June 6, 2017 [44 favorites]
I keep thinking we’re living in a simulation. Then I stub my toe and that thought goes away.
But things like this make it persist. Not just this – all of it, I mean, stuff like Limbaugh – a loudmouth propagandist that is also DEAF. Or the Oscars ( “La La Land” vs. “Moonlight”). Trumps election – not just improbable, all this stuff is so implausible. The Superbowl – all razzle dazzle, reversal of fortune, and didn’t you have the feeling beforehand it was going to be an exceptional game? Like we all knew the guy playing the Patriots would just button mash and somehow pull off a bizarre win. (It helps that this didn’t occur apart from the political polarity – Trump predicted an 8 point win by the Patriots, and the Super Bowl became a sort of political focal point with the Patriots, most recently accused of cheating, and most certainly a sort of winning machine vs. the Falcons from a majority black city. And the Pats down 27-3 suddenly come up with a miracle and win by 6)
Like we’re living in one of the Nick Bostrum universes where people are simulating “what if Trump won…hm. Ok, what if it got worse and worse? How bizarre can we make this before people start freaking out?”
And they keep changing things but not quite perfectly. Mandela didn’t die in jail, the Berenstein Bears are Berenstain Bears, Sinbad wasn’t a genie in the 90’s
You know, you look at history and the apocalypse and one laughs at how stupid those people must have been to think the world was coming to an end. And yet, doesn’t it sort of map over to our world view? That things have gotten so damn weird it must be some sort of snafu or glitch in the universe?
To be fair, she seems to be of the generation of AF members who named their kids odd things. Buddy of mine was dating an AF girl named “Free.”
But did that really happen in my past? Or was that fact retro-inserted into my past to make this more plausible? *chuckle*
I think Trump is causing a glitch by creating a recursive loop in reality. The whole “fake news” thing. The “attacks in Sweden” and/or Kellyanne Conway’s “Bowling Green massacre” and ““alternative facts.”etc, where he tries to assert a new reality and then comments on the new reality and it reiterates into this whole other thing that becomes the new reality. We all know it’s a distortion from the outset, but we get trapped into talking about that instead of actual reality.
Yeah, it’s kind of a joke. I mean, he’s just an evil bastard doing a poor front man job for other evil bastards. But what if it’s not just mundane lying?
Thinking about Jungian synchronicity, the collective unconsciousness...
If Trump, and others, are engaging in a sort of Orwellian Reality Control (“The Party said that Oceania had never been in alliance with Eurasia. He, Winston Smith, knew that Oceania had been in alliance with Eurasia as short a time as four years ago. But where did that knowledge exist? Only in his own consciousness, which in any case must soon be annihilated. And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. ‘Who controls the past,’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’”)
Isn’t it possible that reality – or at least those who appreciate reality, push back?
E.O. Wilson uses the term biophilia for the innate tendency or urge to affiliate with other forms of life and lifelike processes.
“Biophilia, like other patterns of complex learning behavior, is likely to be mediated by rules of prepared and counterprepared learning – the tendency to learn or to resist learning responses as opposed to others – the feelings molded by the learning rules fall along several emotional spectra: from attraction to aversion, from awe to indifference, from peacefulness to fear-driven anxiety.”
What is Trump and people like him if not biophobic? Preferring the artifice over the natural.
I think Reality Winner’s name is an indication that this process, the complex learned behavior based on the appreciation of life and lifelike processes, is in conflict with the process of fear-driven anxiety in opposition to life processes.
It sounds more complex than it is.
Some shitheads hate life and nature and try to distort and twist it to their own ends (typically artifices like money) and people who like connecting with other people and life resist them because things like the acquisition of wealth is meaningless while making connections and understanding are meaningful.
"The least of things with a meaning is worth more in life than the greatest of things without it." - Jung
The phobic tends to regress into diminishing possible responses. Less and less freedom. Which leads to self-destruction. Plenty of collateral damage in the meantime though.
"The man who promises everything is sure to fulfill nothing, and everyone who promises too much is in danger of using evil means in order to carry out his promises, and is already on the road to perdition." - Jung
So the best way to speed this process (their self-destruction) is to augment our commitment to connections, life, meaningful interaction all that. Any support Reality Winner (or any whistleblower) needs, in this case (there's a gofundme out there too).
posted by Smedleyman at 9:46 AM on June 6, 2017 [44 favorites]
I think Trump is causing a glitch by creating a recursive loop in reality.
I've had enough of journalistic flabgabble about Trump "undermining the concept of objective reality" or what have you. He's an ignorant man and a chronic liar with a following who believe him, or who pretend to. No fancy metaphysics are needed to explain this.
posted by thelonius at 9:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
I've had enough of journalistic flabgabble about Trump "undermining the concept of objective reality" or what have you. He's an ignorant man and a chronic liar with a following who believe him, or who pretend to. No fancy metaphysics are needed to explain this.
posted by thelonius at 9:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
US Representative Clay Higgins called for Americans to "kill them all" with regards to those he considers terrorists. Yesterday two honor students were shot in a car in Maryland, just before their graduation day. I see a connection between his words, and this event.
posted by Oyéah at 9:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 9:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
I don't envy the job of the next Democratic administration as far as having to rebuild our international standing (as much as that can be possible, anyway) and to return the government back to something resembling functional.
posted by azpenguin at 9:56 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 9:56 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sorry, guys. Comey is going to be more nothingburgers. It's nothingburgers all the way down. I'm not even convinced that he's the enemy of our enemy.
Disagree. I watched Comey give his testimony about racing to the hospital to prevent Alberto Gonzales getting the doped up John Ashcroft to sign on to illegal warrantless wiretapping. He's an effective storyteller, who comes across as very sober, detail-oriented, and credible.
All these stories coming from Comey's associates are unlikely to be completely unauthorized disclosures, so there's decent reason to believe that he's ready to drop a big one. Even if we--the close followers of national politics--know most of those details, the major news orgs are going to carry the testimony live. What Comey talks about is likely going to be all over television, digital, and print news sources all over the weekend.
As to whether he's "the enemy of our enemy"...I think that last year demonstrated that Comey's primary loyalty is to his brand as a serious, independent, non-partisan government official. While there are reasons to doubt that reputation, I do think he feels it very important to preserve that reputational brand. It would be...out of character, a in certain respect, for Comey to start carrying water for the administration at this point, especially given his reports to friends and documentation of inappropriate WH contacts. I think he's pissed that the WH tried to use his reputation to cover up their crimes, so I think he's going to go after them.
I could be wrong, though.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:56 AM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
Disagree. I watched Comey give his testimony about racing to the hospital to prevent Alberto Gonzales getting the doped up John Ashcroft to sign on to illegal warrantless wiretapping. He's an effective storyteller, who comes across as very sober, detail-oriented, and credible.
All these stories coming from Comey's associates are unlikely to be completely unauthorized disclosures, so there's decent reason to believe that he's ready to drop a big one. Even if we--the close followers of national politics--know most of those details, the major news orgs are going to carry the testimony live. What Comey talks about is likely going to be all over television, digital, and print news sources all over the weekend.
As to whether he's "the enemy of our enemy"...I think that last year demonstrated that Comey's primary loyalty is to his brand as a serious, independent, non-partisan government official. While there are reasons to doubt that reputation, I do think he feels it very important to preserve that reputational brand. It would be...out of character, a in certain respect, for Comey to start carrying water for the administration at this point, especially given his reports to friends and documentation of inappropriate WH contacts. I think he's pissed that the WH tried to use his reputation to cover up their crimes, so I think he's going to go after them.
I could be wrong, though.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:56 AM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
I don't envy the job of the next Democratic administration as far as having to rebuild our international standing (as much as that can be possible, anyway) and to return the government back to something resembling functional.
They're going to have to bring Obama people in to assist in the transition because the Trump administration people will be less than worthless, if they even agree to help at all.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:02 AM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
They're going to have to bring Obama people in to assist in the transition because the Trump administration people will be less than worthless, if they even agree to help at all.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:02 AM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Comey could say Trump directly ordered him to stop investigating, and also admitted to coordinating directly with Putin himself with smoking gun emails offering to lift sanctions in exchange for hacking Democratic campaigns, and Republicans will still do nothing. Nothing Comey can say will move Republicans to act in any way. Nothing. Every single Republican, Every. One. is 100% behind everything Trump does, regardless of their faux statements of "concern" or "troubles" in public. They're all 100% complicit in the collusion, the coverup, and the ultimate goal of turning the US into a one party fascist dictatorship.
The only good Comey can do is to reveal more details of Trump's lawlessness, and only indirectly affect the probability of Democrats regaining some control in 2018, assuming we are able to have free elections by then. That's it. No bombshell will lead to impeachment. No wrongdoing will be punished.
Because Republicans are the only ones who can exercise any oversight, and every Republican is actively involved in the same conspiracy. We no longer have the rule of law while Republicans are an organized force.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:04 AM on June 6, 2017 [38 favorites]
The only good Comey can do is to reveal more details of Trump's lawlessness, and only indirectly affect the probability of Democrats regaining some control in 2018, assuming we are able to have free elections by then. That's it. No bombshell will lead to impeachment. No wrongdoing will be punished.
Because Republicans are the only ones who can exercise any oversight, and every Republican is actively involved in the same conspiracy. We no longer have the rule of law while Republicans are an organized force.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:04 AM on June 6, 2017 [38 favorites]
Major insurer Anthem to withdraw from Ohio health care exchange: Anthem will pull out of Ohio's health insurance exchange as of Jan. 1, 2018, so it won't be a choice for people buying individual insurance later this year. The major player in the state's health insurance exchange made the decision as Republicans in Congress worked to overhaul the Affordable Care Act, better known as Obamacare.
In 18 counties, including Muskingum and Coshocton, Anthem is currently the only option for 10,500 Ohioans who have insurance purchased on the exchange. The 18 counties are concentrated in Appalachia and include some of the poorest in the state.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
In 18 counties, including Muskingum and Coshocton, Anthem is currently the only option for 10,500 Ohioans who have insurance purchased on the exchange. The 18 counties are concentrated in Appalachia and include some of the poorest in the state.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:05 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
You guys. Tomorrow is Mike Pence's birthday.
Let's give him our warmest birthday wishes by donating to Planned Parenthood in his honor. Happy Birthday, Mike!
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [43 favorites]
Let's give him our warmest birthday wishes by donating to Planned Parenthood in his honor. Happy Birthday, Mike!
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [43 favorites]
At least she won't be in a military prison.
Instead she will be in a Jeff Sessions newly privatized federal prison run by the lowest corporate bidder.
posted by JackFlash at 10:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Instead she will be in a Jeff Sessions newly privatized federal prison run by the lowest corporate bidder.
posted by JackFlash at 10:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am REALLY getting tired of the frequent "everything has gone to hell, nothing can change, we are all doomed" comments from more than a few participants in these threads.
If you have said that once, you DON'T need to ever say it again, okay?
posted by yhbc at 10:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [84 favorites]
If you have said that once, you DON'T need to ever say it again, okay?
posted by yhbc at 10:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [84 favorites]
Good analysis from The Washington Post on how Trump's goal seems to be only the appearance of effective governance to low information voters, The Daily 202: Trump signals to his base that he is a man of action.
posted by peeedro at 10:14 AM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 10:14 AM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
I really feel bad for Comey.
As others have noted, he is a civil servant who values his integrity.
Last summer/fall, he discovered he was in a no-win situation, in that he had to adhere to two different sets of rules. He had to repeatedly point out when Clinton was under investigation, when she wasn't and when she was back under it. Otherwise, he'd be hiding information to enable Clinton to take the presidency. He and his agency would be accused of acting in a partisan way.
At the same time, he knew something was fishy with the Trump campaign with respect to Russian. But, he had to keep it under wraps like any other (non-Democrat-candidate-related) investigation. To do otherwise, he'd be exposing information defaming Trump, enabling Clinton to take the presidency. He and his agency would be accused of acting in a partisan way.
He threaded the needed as best he could. Given how things played out, his actions likely cost Clinton the election (at least among the factors that tipped the balance).
...and it is becoming increasingly clear that the Russians likely acted to put Trump in the White House, and members of the Trump campaign were in communication with those agents, if not directly coordinating with them.
He wakes up every morning thinking about the cluster fuck we're living in, knowing he helped put a man who has demonstrated himself to be unfit and unqualified for the presidency into office, and that he did so in concert with a foreign actor. Had he not been in the no-win situation above, or willing to take a bit heat to either disclose both investigations, or keep them confidential, we collectively might not be here. He wakes up thinking this may be all his fault.
(That said, had Clinton won but everything else more-or-less the same, we'd be in month four of another round of email server hearings.)
posted by MrGuilt at 10:16 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
As others have noted, he is a civil servant who values his integrity.
Last summer/fall, he discovered he was in a no-win situation, in that he had to adhere to two different sets of rules. He had to repeatedly point out when Clinton was under investigation, when she wasn't and when she was back under it. Otherwise, he'd be hiding information to enable Clinton to take the presidency. He and his agency would be accused of acting in a partisan way.
At the same time, he knew something was fishy with the Trump campaign with respect to Russian. But, he had to keep it under wraps like any other (non-Democrat-candidate-related) investigation. To do otherwise, he'd be exposing information defaming Trump, enabling Clinton to take the presidency. He and his agency would be accused of acting in a partisan way.
He threaded the needed as best he could. Given how things played out, his actions likely cost Clinton the election (at least among the factors that tipped the balance).
...and it is becoming increasingly clear that the Russians likely acted to put Trump in the White House, and members of the Trump campaign were in communication with those agents, if not directly coordinating with them.
He wakes up every morning thinking about the cluster fuck we're living in, knowing he helped put a man who has demonstrated himself to be unfit and unqualified for the presidency into office, and that he did so in concert with a foreign actor. Had he not been in the no-win situation above, or willing to take a bit heat to either disclose both investigations, or keep them confidential, we collectively might not be here. He wakes up thinking this may be all his fault.
(That said, had Clinton won but everything else more-or-less the same, we'd be in month four of another round of email server hearings.)
posted by MrGuilt at 10:16 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
cjelli: *I'm not really sure, and even if it's happening for innocent reasons, I would not be shocked if Trump tried to pressure them into pushing a particular angle when questioning Comey.
I guess we will get to hear more about email servers after all.
posted by MrGuilt at 10:18 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
I guess we will get to hear more about email servers after all.
posted by MrGuilt at 10:18 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Dan Alexander: How Donald Trump Shifted Kids-Cancer Charity Money Into His Business. In which Eric Trump ran around talking about how his father donated the use of the golf course for free for his charity golf tournament, but that seems not to have been true and a considerable amount of money was being funneled around, including self-dealing between the Trump foundations and Organization:
A new WaPo/ABC poll from after Trump's announcement shows 59% oppose withdrawal from the Paris Accord, 28% support. It's crazification factor time.
In AHCA news, Lindsey Graham says that Rand Paul is "irretrievably gone" because he won't support anything involving refundable tax credits. That means they can only afford to lose one other Senator with whatever their plan is now. However, Bill Cassidy now says he is on board. They still don't have any actual legislative language or anything though, but I'm sure we'll hear a lot of shouting about the bare counties in Ohio that now have no insurer on the exchange.
posted by zachlipton at 10:28 AM on June 6, 2017 [33 favorites]
But in 2011, things took a turn. Costs for Eric Trump's tournament jumped from $46,000 to $142,000, according to the foundation's IRS filings. Why would the price of the tournament suddenly triple in one year? "In the early years, they weren't being billed [for the club]--the bills would just disappear," says Ian Gillule, who served as membership and marketing director at Trump National Westchester during two stints from 2006 to 2015 and witnessed how Donald Trump reacted to the tournament's economics. "Mr. Trump had a cow. He flipped. He was like, 'We're donating all of this stuff, and there's no paper trail? No credit?' And he went nuts. He said, 'I don't care if it's my son or not--everybody gets billed.' "Politico: How Trump is stalling his own nominees. It's taking them months to put together the paperwork, including financial information for OGE review, before nominations are even sent to the Senate. The Obama Administration, or Gallant, didn't announce nominations until the paperwork was complete and OGE signed off, while Goofus here announces names and sits on them while whining about how slow the process is.
Katrina Kaupp, who served on the board of directors at the Eric Trump Foundation in 2010 and 2011, also remembers Donald Trump insisting the charity start paying its own way, despite Eric's public claims to the contrary. "We did have to cover the expenses," she says. "The charity had grown so much that the Trump Organization couldn't absorb all of those costs anymore." The Trump Organization declined to answer detailed questions about the payments. But it seems that for the future president, who Forbes estimates is worth $3.5 billion, a freebie to help his son directly fight kids' cancer took a backseat to revenue.
A new WaPo/ABC poll from after Trump's announcement shows 59% oppose withdrawal from the Paris Accord, 28% support. It's crazification factor time.
In AHCA news, Lindsey Graham says that Rand Paul is "irretrievably gone" because he won't support anything involving refundable tax credits. That means they can only afford to lose one other Senator with whatever their plan is now. However, Bill Cassidy now says he is on board. They still don't have any actual legislative language or anything though, but I'm sure we'll hear a lot of shouting about the bare counties in Ohio that now have no insurer on the exchange.
posted by zachlipton at 10:28 AM on June 6, 2017 [33 favorites]
Comey has been trying to bring down the Clintons for years. To act like he was caught between a rock and a hard place, and stewing about what to do during the election, does not make sense.
posted by agregoli at 10:29 AM on June 6, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 10:29 AM on June 6, 2017 [31 favorites]
he discovered he was in a no-win situation, in that he had to adhere to two different sets of rules.
No, there was only one set of rules. Department policy says that you don't interfere in elections -- full stop. You don't make indictments, you don't issue subpoenas, you don't make press statements in the lead up to an election. There was nothing compelling Comey to make the statements to the press he made. He simply feared Republican backlash more than he feared Democratic backlash. He was a coward worried about himself.
posted by JackFlash at 10:29 AM on June 6, 2017 [77 favorites]
No, there was only one set of rules. Department policy says that you don't interfere in elections -- full stop. You don't make indictments, you don't issue subpoenas, you don't make press statements in the lead up to an election. There was nothing compelling Comey to make the statements to the press he made. He simply feared Republican backlash more than he feared Democratic backlash. He was a coward worried about himself.
posted by JackFlash at 10:29 AM on June 6, 2017 [77 favorites]
You have to be kidding me. In Washington, Trump Is Roasted. At His Winery, He’s Toasted.
posted by zachlipton at 10:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
A year later, the [Trump] winery was among the sponsors of a Russian-American cultural group’s event honoring Sergey I. Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, according to documents recently posted on Twitter by Scott Dworkin, a Democratic activist.Here's those documents. It's one name among many sponsors (Vnesheconombank is one too), but I mean, come on.
A spokeswoman for the winery declined to comment. But in an email, Alexander Potemkin, the executive director of the American-Russian Cultural Cooperation Foundation, said the event, held in 2012, had been to celebrate the organization’s 20th anniversary.
“Perhaps someone asked for a few bottles of wine from them,” Mr. Potemkin wrote. “But it certainly was not their initiative.”
posted by zachlipton at 10:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
Aren't Murkowski and Collins also confirmed NOs too?
Vox are saying that McConnell might force a vote he knows will fail to put Obamacare repeal to bed and move on to tax reform. Kind of astonishing that a humiliating defeat on the floor is the least bad option for them, but I have absolutely no sympathy. If they want to "show 'em a body" of this failed bill, then we should keep calling and give them more ammunition to kill it.
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
Vox are saying that McConnell might force a vote he knows will fail to put Obamacare repeal to bed and move on to tax reform. Kind of astonishing that a humiliating defeat on the floor is the least bad option for them, but I have absolutely no sympathy. If they want to "show 'em a body" of this failed bill, then we should keep calling and give them more ammunition to kill it.
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
yoga: Do you guys have security people watching the counters? Like do the ballots get escorted to the counting headquarters or how does that work? (serious question)
Yes, the ballots are sealed in locked boxes & taken to the count which is held in public under the watchful eyes of representatives of all candidates. The whole process is under the aegis of the Electoral Commission & described in this pdf. Anyone can attend the count if they wish - it’s open to the public.
ROU_Xenophobe: Hand-counting is not very well suited to counting American-style ballots with ballpark 50 races and issues on the same ballot
The UK splits each race into individual ballots which are counted separately. Although we don’t usually have 50 different races all happening at the same time which sounds slightly nuts.
posted by pharm at 10:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yes, the ballots are sealed in locked boxes & taken to the count which is held in public under the watchful eyes of representatives of all candidates. The whole process is under the aegis of the Electoral Commission & described in this pdf. Anyone can attend the count if they wish - it’s open to the public.
ROU_Xenophobe: Hand-counting is not very well suited to counting American-style ballots with ballpark 50 races and issues on the same ballot
The UK splits each race into individual ballots which are counted separately. Although we don’t usually have 50 different races all happening at the same time which sounds slightly nuts.
posted by pharm at 10:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
JackFlash He simply feared Republican backlash more than he feared Democratic backlash. He was a coward worried about himself.
I suppose that's the two sets of "rules" I speak of. Not disclosing renewed interest in Clinton's email would have been seen, by the GOP, as interfering with the election. There would have been more than a reasonable amount of hearings. Revealing an investigation with Trump would be interfering with the election--what happened to not making statements?
It's like the long-standing "tradition" of not having hearings on Supreme Court justices during an election year.
posted by MrGuilt at 10:34 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
I suppose that's the two sets of "rules" I speak of. Not disclosing renewed interest in Clinton's email would have been seen, by the GOP, as interfering with the election. There would have been more than a reasonable amount of hearings. Revealing an investigation with Trump would be interfering with the election--what happened to not making statements?
It's like the long-standing "tradition" of not having hearings on Supreme Court justices during an election year.
posted by MrGuilt at 10:34 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
tired of the frequent "everything has gone to hell, nothing can change, we are all doomed" comments from more than a few participants in these threads.
There is a very helpful MeTa Of Dispair:
What the fucking fuck
In the interest of not cluttering up the massive political thread with expressions of disbelief, let's have a Metatalk thread about how unbelievable all this shit is..
On preview: A year later, the [Trump] winery was among the sponsors of a Russian-American cultural group’s event honoring Sergey I. Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, according to documents recently posted on Twitter by Scott Dworkin, a Democratic activist.
Come on!
posted by Room 641-A at 10:37 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
There is a very helpful MeTa Of Dispair:
What the fucking fuck
In the interest of not cluttering up the massive political thread with expressions of disbelief, let's have a Metatalk thread about how unbelievable all this shit is..
On preview: A year later, the [Trump] winery was among the sponsors of a Russian-American cultural group’s event honoring Sergey I. Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, according to documents recently posted on Twitter by Scott Dworkin, a Democratic activist.
Come on!
posted by Room 641-A at 10:37 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Although we don’t usually have 50 different races all happening at the same time which sounds slightly nuts.
I took an index card cheat-sheet with me when I voted in our DEM primary last month. We elect freaking everyone. Judges, magistrates, district attorneys, county council, city council, sheriffs, police chiefs, and and and and and. And then some states have oodles of direct-democracy ballot measures (mine doesn't ,but California is notorious for this).
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:38 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
I took an index card cheat-sheet with me when I voted in our DEM primary last month. We elect freaking everyone. Judges, magistrates, district attorneys, county council, city council, sheriffs, police chiefs, and and and and and. And then some states have oodles of direct-democracy ballot measures (mine doesn't ,but California is notorious for this).
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:38 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
yoga: You can see the count in process in Leeds for the last general election in this YouTube video. This kind of footage is a familiar sight to anyone in the UK keen enough on politics to stay up to watch the election night coverage.
posted by pharm at 10:39 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by pharm at 10:39 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not to mention that often our local elections include things like "justice of the peace" vote for no more than eleven of the following with a list of 27 names. Counting totals, over and under on that one item by hand would be nuts.
But, scantron works, is simple and creates a paper trail. It's a great solution for 99.5% of use cases. I'd like disability aid machines that simply mark scantron ballots themselves to handle the rest.
posted by meinvt at 10:42 AM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
But, scantron works, is simple and creates a paper trail. It's a great solution for 99.5% of use cases. I'd like disability aid machines that simply mark scantron ballots themselves to handle the rest.
posted by meinvt at 10:42 AM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Truth. Scantron is the way to go, my peeps.
posted by en forme de poire at 10:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 10:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
You can see some typical UK ballot papers better in this YT video.
posted by pharm at 10:45 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pharm at 10:45 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
WPost: Trump is now raging at Jeff Sessions. This hints at a deeply unsettling pattern.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:45 AM on June 6, 2017 [76 favorites]
Both Comey and Sessions enraged Trump because in some manner or other, they failed to show a level of loyalty to Trump that would have trumped (as it were) legitimate processes. Comey kept publicly validating the Russia investigation (which Trump dismisses as nothing but “Fake News”) and would not make it disappear by stopping leaks about it. Sessions recused himself to display (nominal) independence, which Trump somehow interpreted as a lapse into weakness that led to the special counsel, further affirming the probe’s weightiness.{...}When Trump promised to run the government like a business, he meant his privately held one, which was dedicated solely to his enrichment and in which everyone was accountable solely to him.
Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a professor of history at New York University who writes extensively on authoritarianism and Italian fascism, told me that a discernible trait of authoritarian and autocratic rulers is ongoing “frustration” with the “inability to make others do their bidding” and with “institutional and bureaucratic procedures and checks and balances.”{...}
Trump expects independent officials “to behave according to personal loyalty, as opposed to following the rules,” added Timothy Snyder, a history professor at Yale University who wrote “On Tyranny,” a book of lessons from the 20th century. “For Trump, that is how the world is supposed to work. Trump doesn’t understand that in the world there might truly be laws and rules that constrain a leader.”
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:45 AM on June 6, 2017 [76 favorites]
> Department policy says that you don't interfere in elections -- full stop. You don't make indictments, you don't issue subpoenas, you don't make press statements in the lead up to an election. There was nothing compelling Comey to make the statements to the press he made.
And let's pretend that there is some "ticking time bomb" scenario that would require the FBI Director to act in contrary to the established rules and practices. Under what logical / moral framework does one arrive at "ZOMG, there are emails on Anthony Weiner's laptop!" as clearing that bar?
> I suppose that's the two sets of "rules" I speak of. Not disclosing renewed interest in Clinton's email would have been seen, by the GOP, as interfering with the election. There would have been more than a reasonable amount of hearings.
This extreme level of good faith you're assigning to his actions is very strange. The prospect of Republicans holding hearings later on is not an excuse to abandon established rules and norms. Remember how the GOP spent eleventy billion hours on BENGHAZI!!!? If Trump had lost a close election, they would be holding hearings either way. The name Clinton means any minimum standards of evidence for assuming foul play are out the window. So if there was going to be political fallout for him either way, shouldn't he default to doing his job?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
And let's pretend that there is some "ticking time bomb" scenario that would require the FBI Director to act in contrary to the established rules and practices. Under what logical / moral framework does one arrive at "ZOMG, there are emails on Anthony Weiner's laptop!" as clearing that bar?
> I suppose that's the two sets of "rules" I speak of. Not disclosing renewed interest in Clinton's email would have been seen, by the GOP, as interfering with the election. There would have been more than a reasonable amount of hearings.
This extreme level of good faith you're assigning to his actions is very strange. The prospect of Republicans holding hearings later on is not an excuse to abandon established rules and norms. Remember how the GOP spent eleventy billion hours on BENGHAZI!!!? If Trump had lost a close election, they would be holding hearings either way. The name Clinton means any minimum standards of evidence for assuming foul play are out the window. So if there was going to be political fallout for him either way, shouldn't he default to doing his job?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
Alexander Potemkin, the executive director of the American-Russian Cultural Cooperation Foundation
Really??
posted by orrnyereg at 10:51 AM on June 6, 2017 [51 favorites]
Really??
posted by orrnyereg at 10:51 AM on June 6, 2017 [51 favorites]
Not disclosing renewed interest in Clinton's email would have been seen, by the GOP, as interfering with the election.
That isn't the rule. The rule is that you don't comment on either side. That someone will scream after the election makes no difference. It comes with the job. If you can't stand the heat, you shouldn't have the job. Comey made a political choice to appease the Republicans because he feared their anger more than he feared Democrats.
posted by JackFlash at 10:52 AM on June 6, 2017 [23 favorites]
That isn't the rule. The rule is that you don't comment on either side. That someone will scream after the election makes no difference. It comes with the job. If you can't stand the heat, you shouldn't have the job. Comey made a political choice to appease the Republicans because he feared their anger more than he feared Democrats.
posted by JackFlash at 10:52 AM on June 6, 2017 [23 favorites]
biogeo and I voted in the Philadelphia primary last month. So many judges. We looked up the bar recommendations and then still had to narrow it down based on...things? Eventually I just voted for the women and anyone with an interesting name. I feel like this is not a good system.
posted by cui bono at 10:52 AM on June 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by cui bono at 10:52 AM on June 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
Look I haven't read all the links but where's the god damn donate to Reality Winner's defense fund? Because if that's NOT a thing yet, we're failing at America.
posted by saysthis at 10:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by saysthis at 10:53 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
I was reading the Vox article on Nevada's proposed Medicaid for all this morning. Medicaid expansion via the ACA is popular with people across the political spectrum. So I hope the Nevada governor (Republican though he is) signs it. If Gov. Brown signs in healthcare for all in Cali, I hope this means a wave of states implementing their own healthcare for all programs, no matter what happens in Washington.
What is a not-dog-whistle term for "state's rights?" Local control? I'll run with that for now, and say that moderate to liberal states saying "to hell with Apricot Asswipe, Granny Starver and all of them, we're doing what's right by our people and our earth" I hope becomes a trend and a wave. I'm going to be optimistic (which might get me drummed out of Metafilter) and say that the Climate Alliance started a trend of positive, liberal local governance.
I mean, way back in civics class we always talked about the whole 'states as laboratories of democracy' thing, and it is a good idea - it's how we got gay marriage and it's how we're getting legal weed and bail reform. The fact that states can use their powers of autonomy for evil as well as for good has made the term "state's rights" go down pretty poorly, but really, this is nothing new. It's how the federal system is designed to work. It's just surprising these days when it, well, works as designed.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:54 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
What is a not-dog-whistle term for "state's rights?" Local control? I'll run with that for now, and say that moderate to liberal states saying "to hell with Apricot Asswipe, Granny Starver and all of them, we're doing what's right by our people and our earth" I hope becomes a trend and a wave. I'm going to be optimistic (which might get me drummed out of Metafilter) and say that the Climate Alliance started a trend of positive, liberal local governance.
I mean, way back in civics class we always talked about the whole 'states as laboratories of democracy' thing, and it is a good idea - it's how we got gay marriage and it's how we're getting legal weed and bail reform. The fact that states can use their powers of autonomy for evil as well as for good has made the term "state's rights" go down pretty poorly, but really, this is nothing new. It's how the federal system is designed to work. It's just surprising these days when it, well, works as designed.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:54 AM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
WPost: Trump is now raging at Jeff Sessions. This hints at a deeply unsettling pattern
Now that WaPo is reporting it, can I give it credence?
posted by Room 641-A at 10:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Now that WaPo is reporting it, can I give it credence?
posted by Room 641-A at 10:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Alexander Potemkin, the executive director of the American-Russian Cultural Cooperation Foundation
Really??
The Potemkin Village was created under Grigory. Alexander was his father. But yeah, that surname.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:58 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Really??
The Potemkin Village was created under Grigory. Alexander was his father. But yeah, that surname.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:58 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Looking forward to (and sideways at) 2020, Mark Zuckerberg for President?!?
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:00 AM on June 6, 2017
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:00 AM on June 6, 2017
Now that WaPo is reporting it, can I give it credence?
Since the WPost opinion piece is based on the NYT's reporting and doesn't have an independent sources to confirm it, skepticism about its seriousness is still warranted. If Sessions resigns, that would be surprising, frankly, as this kind of story has previously been run about Bannon, Preibus, and Gorka, all of whom weathered out whatever tempest was brewing in Trump's teapot.
That said, the WPost's analysis about why this seems to keep happening to Team Trump is worth reading.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:02 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Since the WPost opinion piece is based on the NYT's reporting and doesn't have an independent sources to confirm it, skepticism about its seriousness is still warranted. If Sessions resigns, that would be surprising, frankly, as this kind of story has previously been run about Bannon, Preibus, and Gorka, all of whom weathered out whatever tempest was brewing in Trump's teapot.
That said, the WPost's analysis about why this seems to keep happening to Team Trump is worth reading.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:02 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Looking forward to (and sideways at) 2020, Mark Zuckerberg for President?!?
God help us he apparently plans to run as an independent. If he splits the youth and left votes we'll have four more years of Trump.
posted by Talez at 11:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
God help us he apparently plans to run as an independent. If he splits the youth and left votes we'll have four more years of Trump.
posted by Talez at 11:09 AM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Apologies if this has been posted before-- I think it's a great idea.
"For context - because he's President - all of Trump's Tweets should be mocked up in the correct Presidential statement format. It's telling."
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 11:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
"For context - because he's President - all of Trump's Tweets should be mocked up in the correct Presidential statement format. It's telling."
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 11:10 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
If Sessions resigns, that would be surprising, frankly, as this kind of story has previously been run about Bannon, Preibus, and Gorka, all of whom weathered out whatever tempest was brewing in Trump's teapot.
I think that's likely true on both counts, but on the other hand, I don't think that means that he wasn't pissed off. I think he's getting angry at people and then getting distracted before anything actually comes of it--and that the target of this anger keeps shifting. I think this kind of thing is worth noting aside from the imminence of any resignations; it's an indicator of his mental state and the actual chaos going on behind closed doors.
posted by Sequence at 11:11 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think that's likely true on both counts, but on the other hand, I don't think that means that he wasn't pissed off. I think he's getting angry at people and then getting distracted before anything actually comes of it--and that the target of this anger keeps shifting. I think this kind of thing is worth noting aside from the imminence of any resignations; it's an indicator of his mental state and the actual chaos going on behind closed doors.
posted by Sequence at 11:11 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Looking forward to (and sideways at) 2020, Mark Zuckerberg for President?!?
I said this a few threads ago, but I'll say it again: my god, man, just go away. Focus on Facebook or retire to an island or donate your fortune to charity or whatever else you want to do, but stay the hell out of politics. We don't need more "leaders" like you.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:13 AM on June 6, 2017 [38 favorites]
I said this a few threads ago, but I'll say it again: my god, man, just go away. Focus on Facebook or retire to an island or donate your fortune to charity or whatever else you want to do, but stay the hell out of politics. We don't need more "leaders" like you.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:13 AM on June 6, 2017 [38 favorites]
I think America needs to do with Zuckerberg what we should have done with Trump. Ignore the fucker and he'll go away.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:13 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 11:13 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Vox are saying that McConnell might force a vote he knows will fail to put Obamacare repeal to bed and move on to tax reform.
"Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it."
posted by kirkaracha at 11:15 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
If he splits the youth and left votes we'll have four more years of Trump.
I have my doubts about how popular he is among the youth, but in any case anyone who would consider voting for Mark fucking Zuckerberg without even the excuse that you have to vote for the Democrat is not in any way on the political left, not even in the skewed version of the political spectrum that exists in the US. If you're looking for someone to pre-emptively blame, the center and NeverTrump right await your scorn.
posted by Copronymus at 11:16 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
I have my doubts about how popular he is among the youth, but in any case anyone who would consider voting for Mark fucking Zuckerberg without even the excuse that you have to vote for the Democrat is not in any way on the political left, not even in the skewed version of the political spectrum that exists in the US. If you're looking for someone to pre-emptively blame, the center and NeverTrump right await your scorn.
posted by Copronymus at 11:16 AM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think America needs to do with Zuckerberg what we should have done with Trump.
YES
Ignore the fucker and he'll go away.
oh
well I have a lot of stuff to return to Home Depot if the build-a-trebuchet-to-hurl-him-into-the-ocean plan isn't what you were talking about
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:16 AM on June 6, 2017 [103 favorites]
YES
Ignore the fucker and he'll go away.
oh
well I have a lot of stuff to return to Home Depot if the build-a-trebuchet-to-hurl-him-into-the-ocean plan isn't what you were talking about
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:16 AM on June 6, 2017 [103 favorites]
retire to an island
Or, in the case of Zuckerberg specifically, try to colonize an island.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:18 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Or, in the case of Zuckerberg specifically, try to colonize an island.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:18 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Jim Acosta: Corey/Bossie chatter about joining WH was theatrics and media misdirection, Trump-world source tells me: "Something we enjoy doing."
Is there ever a point where sources who repeatedly lie to the press maybe aren't listened to anymore? Is that really too much to ask?
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
Is there ever a point where sources who repeatedly lie to the press maybe aren't listened to anymore? Is that really too much to ask?
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
anyone who would consider voting for Mark fucking Zuckerberg without even the excuse that you have to vote for the Democrat is not in any way on the political left
So they'd be an SNP voter?
posted by Talez at 11:23 AM on June 6, 2017
So they'd be an SNP voter?
posted by Talez at 11:23 AM on June 6, 2017
I know it's been noted here a zillion times already, probably, but I want to reiterate that I'm pleased as the proverbial punch to know that the public face of the vague "deep state" that various people, on the right and the left, have been going on to me about for the past six months is a 25-year-old woman named "Reality Winner" from Augusta GA (which has a military base and federal nuclear rervation nearby, but doesn't exactly have a high level of Bourne movie-ish exoticism).
posted by raysmj at 11:24 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by raysmj at 11:24 AM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Public Service Announcement - National Treasure Alexandra Petri will be be on the next Lovett or Leave It podcast (this weekend).
posted by zakur at 11:25 AM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by zakur at 11:25 AM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
California (or at least Santa Clara County) went back to scantron after briefly going electronic. I always requested the scantron ballot even during the period where electronic was the default. Your ballot should be your receipt. If you can't confirm the honesty of the vote by returning to the original voter's work, then you are simply handing elections to the cleverest hackers or the most corrupt officials.
posted by tavella at 11:27 AM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by tavella at 11:27 AM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
I think all these stories about 'palace intrigue', as it were, are meant to echo overblown, staged reality television "feuds". The advantage to leaking such information is that opponents get distracted about their alleged internecine fighting, and crucially, may be more inclined to let up on the target of their ire.
In conclusion, I don't give too much of a shit if they are fighting amongst themselves--keep screaming for Sessions, Gorka, and Bannon's dismissals.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:28 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
In conclusion, I don't give too much of a shit if they are fighting amongst themselves--keep screaming for Sessions, Gorka, and Bannon's dismissals.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:28 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think all these stories about 'palace intrigue', as it were, are meant to echo overblown, staged reality television "feuds".
Can we vote them all off the island?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:31 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Can we vote them all off the island?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:31 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm seeing reports on Twitter that the US Coalition has struck pro-Assad regime forces in Southern Syria, so that may be the delay on the presser.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:31 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:31 AM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
If this has been mentioned apologies I'm behind and skimmed the thread:
Just to add to the potential weirdness of the whole Qatar thing, Qatar is in the Steele dossier regarding that whole 19.5 % investment in Roseneft oil privatization thing.
I just looked it up because I kept bugging that I had heard something about Qatar and Trump before. And well, here yah go. And Carter Page appears to be caught up in this whole part of it.
Does this mean anything regarding what he is doing now? No freaking idea but the cooincidence that it's all about Qatar is pretty damn strange.
Memos: CEO of Russia's state oil company offered Trump adviser, allies a cut of huge deal if sanctions were lifted
After mid-October, the dossier said, Sechin predicted that it would no longer be possible for Trump to win the presidency, so he "put feelers out to other business and political contacts" to purchase a stake in Rosneft.
Rosneft then scrambled to find a foreign investor, holding talks with more than 30 potential buyers from Europe, the US, Asia, and the Middle East. The company signed a deal on December 7 to sell 19.5% of shares, or roughly $11 billion, to the multinational commodity trader Glencore Plc and Qatar's state-owned wealth fund. Qatar's sovereign wealth fund is Glencore's largest shareholder.
The "11th hour deal" was "so last minute," Reuters reported, "that it appeared it would not close in time to meet the government's deadline for booking money in the budget from the sale."
The purchase amounted to the biggest foreign investment in Russia since US sanctions took effect in 2014. It showed that "there are some forces in the world that are ready to help Russia to circumvent the [West's] sanction regime," said Lilia Shevtsova, an associate fellow in the Russia and Eurasia program at Chatham House.
posted by Jalliah at 11:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
Just to add to the potential weirdness of the whole Qatar thing, Qatar is in the Steele dossier regarding that whole 19.5 % investment in Roseneft oil privatization thing.
I just looked it up because I kept bugging that I had heard something about Qatar and Trump before. And well, here yah go. And Carter Page appears to be caught up in this whole part of it.
Does this mean anything regarding what he is doing now? No freaking idea but the cooincidence that it's all about Qatar is pretty damn strange.
Memos: CEO of Russia's state oil company offered Trump adviser, allies a cut of huge deal if sanctions were lifted
After mid-October, the dossier said, Sechin predicted that it would no longer be possible for Trump to win the presidency, so he "put feelers out to other business and political contacts" to purchase a stake in Rosneft.
Rosneft then scrambled to find a foreign investor, holding talks with more than 30 potential buyers from Europe, the US, Asia, and the Middle East. The company signed a deal on December 7 to sell 19.5% of shares, or roughly $11 billion, to the multinational commodity trader Glencore Plc and Qatar's state-owned wealth fund. Qatar's sovereign wealth fund is Glencore's largest shareholder.
The "11th hour deal" was "so last minute," Reuters reported, "that it appeared it would not close in time to meet the government's deadline for booking money in the budget from the sale."
The purchase amounted to the biggest foreign investment in Russia since US sanctions took effect in 2014. It showed that "there are some forces in the world that are ready to help Russia to circumvent the [West's] sanction regime," said Lilia Shevtsova, an associate fellow in the Russia and Eurasia program at Chatham House.
posted by Jalliah at 11:33 AM on June 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
The printer-dot horse has bolted, but better late than never.
posted by Coventry at 11:35 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Coventry at 11:35 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
US Coalition has struck pro-Assad regime forces in Southern Syria
What the fuck are we even doing. What. We're friends with Turkey's autocrat, we're arming the YPG, we're bombing Isis, we're friends with Assad and the Russians, we're bombing Assad, we're arming the Free Syrian Army, which includes the al-Nusra Front. Are we arming everyone AND bombing them all? Do we have any coherent strategy beyond arms sales for dollars coming back to Raytheon et al?
posted by Existential Dread at 11:36 AM on June 6, 2017 [54 favorites]
What the fuck are we even doing. What. We're friends with Turkey's autocrat, we're arming the YPG, we're bombing Isis, we're friends with Assad and the Russians, we're bombing Assad, we're arming the Free Syrian Army, which includes the al-Nusra Front. Are we arming everyone AND bombing them all? Do we have any coherent strategy beyond arms sales for dollars coming back to Raytheon et al?
posted by Existential Dread at 11:36 AM on June 6, 2017 [54 favorites]
Are we arming everyone AND bombing them all? Do we have any coherent strategy beyond arms sales for dollars coming back to Raytheon et al?
To be fair, this was kind of an issue before Trump took over. But it certainly hasn't gotten better since the soft-coup of 2016.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:39 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
To be fair, this was kind of an issue before Trump took over. But it certainly hasn't gotten better since the soft-coup of 2016.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:39 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Today I'm listening to Sean Spicer with a Detroit Techno soundtrack, highly recommended
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:41 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:41 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've got to say, it would be the devil's own choice if Zuckerberg were the Democratic candidate, and thinking about this gave me a lot of understanding of "I will NOT vote for Hillary even if we go to the devil" voters. I...don't even know what I'd do. Hope and pray that something during the campaign made matters clearer to me, I guess.
posted by Frowner at 11:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 11:44 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Glad we could clear this up:
Q: Are the President's tweets official White House Statements?
Spicer: "The President is the President of the United States so they are considered official statements by the President of the United States"
posted by zachlipton at 11:48 AM on June 6, 2017 [52 favorites]
Q: Are the President's tweets official White House Statements?
Spicer: "The President is the President of the United States so they are considered official statements by the President of the United States"
posted by zachlipton at 11:48 AM on June 6, 2017 [52 favorites]
Q: Follow-up, what if he passes out and starts mumbling?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:49 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:49 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think all these stories about 'palace intrigue', as it were, are meant to echo overblown, staged reality television "feuds".
I think it's impossible for many of us to say one way or another. Could be staged drama, could be real drama of which the reporters reporting on it have incorrect or inadequate knowledge. Could be both. In general, I'm disinclined to credit this administration with a real keen grasp of strategy and given the number of malignant egos involved, I would be surprised not to see perpetual falling-outs and falling-back-ins. Everything seems to suggest that it's The Lord of the Flies up there. I tend to just note it and file it away.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think it's impossible for many of us to say one way or another. Could be staged drama, could be real drama of which the reporters reporting on it have incorrect or inadequate knowledge. Could be both. In general, I'm disinclined to credit this administration with a real keen grasp of strategy and given the number of malignant egos involved, I would be surprised not to see perpetual falling-outs and falling-back-ins. Everything seems to suggest that it's The Lord of the Flies up there. I tend to just note it and file it away.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:50 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
from the "yes that is an actual headline" dept:
Reuters: U.S. military praises Qatar, despite Trump tweet
Reuters: U.S. military praises Qatar, despite Trump tweet
The Pentagon on Tuesday renewed praise of Qatar for hosting a vital U.S. air base and for its "enduring commitment to regional security," sticking to a message of reassurance even as President Donald Trump, via Twitter, applauded a decision by Arab powers to cut ties to the Gulf ally.posted by murphy slaw at 11:51 AM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
It was the latest example of the tightrope that U.S. officials are walking as Trump's tweets raise questions about existing U.S. policy and the carefully scripted talking points used to explain it.
In the case of Qatar, the stakes are high. More than 11,000 U.S. and coalition forces are deployed to or assigned to al Udeid Air Base, from which more than 100 aircraft operate.
Of those 11,000, nearly 1,000 work in a combined air operations center that helps oversee missions for campaigns in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan, the military says.
U.S. officials had said on Monday that the United States would quietly try to calm the waters between Saudi Arabia and Qatar, arguing that the small Gulf state was too important to U.S. military and diplomatic interests to be isolated.
But Trump, wading into the worst split between powerful Arab states in decades, said on Tuesday his trip to the Middle East was "already paying off" with leaders there taking a hard new line in accusing Qatar of funding of militant groups.
Michael Flynn turns over 600 pages of documents to Senate Intel: The source says the documents are mostly business records, but they also include some personal documents "based on the narrowed requests from the committee."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:52 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:52 AM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Is "covfefe" official policy and can it be passed with 51 votes under the Byrd Rule?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:52 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:52 AM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Knight First Amendment Institute declares @RealDonaldTrump account a designated public forum, and that he must unblock everyone (even those who critique him).
posted by MrGuilt at 11:54 AM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by MrGuilt at 11:54 AM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
Spicer currently saying that it's silly to ask why Trump didn't mention NATO Article 5 at a NATO Article 5 commemoration
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:55 AM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:55 AM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sean hasn't had a chance to discuss with Trump whether Trump has confidence in Sessions. Cute.
posted by prefpara at 11:56 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 11:56 AM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
So they'd be an SNP voter?
The difference being that the SNP has left-wing policies while Zuckerberg is almost certain to run on a bunch of middle-of-the-road garbage about Disruption!!!, saving Silicon Valley from itself, public-private partnerships, the appification of government, and giving himself a tax cut/making it easier for him to do business in the future. His voting base would be people who respect billionaires by default, people who think the government should be run like a business, and people who are plotting to turn Silicon Valley into an arcology fueled by the blood of the young. These groups are almost definitionally not on the left, even in the US.
I'm not trying to get into the merits of tactical voting vs. voting for the party that best represents your views (across multiple different voting systems and in very different contexts to boot), but it should be acknowledged that the SNP occupies a different place in the political landscape than Mark Zuckerberg. An argument about whether an SNP voter should think about voting for Labour is essentially a non sequitur to one about whether a democratic socialist in New York would inevitably vote Zuckerberg for America because people on the left and teens just fucking love Facebook billionaires so much.
posted by Copronymus at 11:56 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
The difference being that the SNP has left-wing policies while Zuckerberg is almost certain to run on a bunch of middle-of-the-road garbage about Disruption!!!, saving Silicon Valley from itself, public-private partnerships, the appification of government, and giving himself a tax cut/making it easier for him to do business in the future. His voting base would be people who respect billionaires by default, people who think the government should be run like a business, and people who are plotting to turn Silicon Valley into an arcology fueled by the blood of the young. These groups are almost definitionally not on the left, even in the US.
I'm not trying to get into the merits of tactical voting vs. voting for the party that best represents your views (across multiple different voting systems and in very different contexts to boot), but it should be acknowledged that the SNP occupies a different place in the political landscape than Mark Zuckerberg. An argument about whether an SNP voter should think about voting for Labour is essentially a non sequitur to one about whether a democratic socialist in New York would inevitably vote Zuckerberg for America because people on the left and teens just fucking love Facebook billionaires so much.
posted by Copronymus at 11:56 AM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Spicer currently saying that it's silly to ask why Trump didn't mention NATO Article 5 at a NATO Article 5 commemoration.
Spicer is this decade's Bagdad Bob.
posted by MrGuilt at 11:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
Spicer is this decade's Bagdad Bob.
posted by MrGuilt at 11:57 AM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
Everything seems to suggest that it's The Lord of the Flies up there.
And at some point Trump is going to think the R's are throwing him under the bus, and they probably will but that's not essential to his thinking it, and he's going to go ballistic and try and burn them all. And you think the R's have to know this, so...
posted by bongo_x at 11:59 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
And at some point Trump is going to think the R's are throwing him under the bus, and they probably will but that's not essential to his thinking it, and he's going to go ballistic and try and burn them all. And you think the R's have to know this, so...
posted by bongo_x at 11:59 AM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Something that's been bugging me for a while and just became clear: why is it accepted that saying "the President has been very clear" is the same thing as saying "the President has said something that makes sense"?
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:59 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:59 AM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hey MeFi, mind if I drop this thing I wrote in here? It's just I want as much help as possible with combatting the lies/propaganda that I believe got us here, and I think this is useful list.
---
These are the lies that are threatening America. I now have a zero tolerance policy for these lies. I call them out EVERY time I hear them.
1) "Creeping sharia" - refugees are just people fleeing terrorism. And we have no reason to go to war with Iran.
2) "Criminal aliens" - immigrants are just normal people, whether or not all their paperwork is in order. They come here for a better life, just like our ancestors.
3) "lazy/thuggish/welfare queens" - the list of lies told about black people is long and shameful. Black Lives Matter is a civil rights group who have done nothing but organize peaceful protests.
4) Clinton Foundation/e-mails/Death List/Pizzagate/whatever - these are all just elaborate lies to make people vote for Trump. Agree or disagree with them, the Clintons are just normal politicians. Bill was president for 8 years, and nothing really bad happened.
5) Obama birth certificate/FEMA camps/"Jade Helm"/secret Muslim/whatever. Same thing. Notice that Obama was president for 8 years and the country is still here? None of the crazy predictions came true? People still have their guns? There are no death panels?
6) Seth Rich - this is an especially blatant lie to cover the tracks of Russian hackers who were actually caught in the act.
7) NATO/UN vs American sovereignty - the ONLY way to prevent wars is to be able to work with, and compromise with, other countries. (The real threat to our sovereignty is foreign governments interfering in our elections and bribing our politicians!)
8) The "enemy" press - the press is not one voice but a cacophony. By listening carefully, though, you can make out the voices of some journalists who are careful, methodical, and courageous. They are absolutely necessary for a functioning democracy. This lie is now getting journalists jailed and body-slammed.
9) Climate change - being a scientist, I know scientists are telling the truth about this. Why wouldn't we? Why don't you make an effort to learn a little science so you can follow the argument we are making? If we are wrong and a bunch of money gets invested in solar energy, is that so bad? At least there is less smog, right? But if we are right and you ignore us, a large number of the world's cities and farms will be destroyed.
10) Vaccines. Same thing. Right now there is a measles outbreak in my state because of the lie about vaccines. This lie has put kids in the hospital here. If allowed to spread, this lie kills children.
11) Birth control "abortafacient." This one is ridiculous because NOT using birth control destroys a lot more fertilized eggs. Most do not implant, with or without birth control. But with birth control, fewer are fertilized to begin with. This lie is pernicious, because women who can't control when they become pregnant are terribly vulnerable and dependent.
12) Liberal baby killers/Satan worshippers/pro-ISIS traitors/whatever. This whole family of lies which denies that your political opponents could possibly be arguing in good faith and justifies any means in service of the end goal of beating the evil liberals is PERSONALLY hurtful to me. Also, it is used to justify anti-democracy measures like refusing to let a Democratic president appoint judges, like shameless gerrymandering and voter suppression, like death threats to Steve King's challenger which drove her from the race.
13) "Rigged system." The purpose of this lie in its many forms (usually exaggerating some real flaw) is to make people think we have already lost our democracy, so that they won't fight to defend it. It is insidious.
When I hear these lies, it infuriates me, even though I know most of the people spreading them are more victims of a con rather than con men. Spreading these lies is what enabled the rise of Trump, who is a demogogue, turning us into a banana republic. I can no longer allow them to go unquestioned in my presence. They are too dangerous.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:59 AM on June 6, 2017 [113 favorites]
---
These are the lies that are threatening America. I now have a zero tolerance policy for these lies. I call them out EVERY time I hear them.
1) "Creeping sharia" - refugees are just people fleeing terrorism. And we have no reason to go to war with Iran.
2) "Criminal aliens" - immigrants are just normal people, whether or not all their paperwork is in order. They come here for a better life, just like our ancestors.
3) "lazy/thuggish/welfare queens" - the list of lies told about black people is long and shameful. Black Lives Matter is a civil rights group who have done nothing but organize peaceful protests.
4) Clinton Foundation/e-mails/Death List/Pizzagate/whatever - these are all just elaborate lies to make people vote for Trump. Agree or disagree with them, the Clintons are just normal politicians. Bill was president for 8 years, and nothing really bad happened.
5) Obama birth certificate/FEMA camps/"Jade Helm"/secret Muslim/whatever. Same thing. Notice that Obama was president for 8 years and the country is still here? None of the crazy predictions came true? People still have their guns? There are no death panels?
6) Seth Rich - this is an especially blatant lie to cover the tracks of Russian hackers who were actually caught in the act.
7) NATO/UN vs American sovereignty - the ONLY way to prevent wars is to be able to work with, and compromise with, other countries. (The real threat to our sovereignty is foreign governments interfering in our elections and bribing our politicians!)
8) The "enemy" press - the press is not one voice but a cacophony. By listening carefully, though, you can make out the voices of some journalists who are careful, methodical, and courageous. They are absolutely necessary for a functioning democracy. This lie is now getting journalists jailed and body-slammed.
9) Climate change - being a scientist, I know scientists are telling the truth about this. Why wouldn't we? Why don't you make an effort to learn a little science so you can follow the argument we are making? If we are wrong and a bunch of money gets invested in solar energy, is that so bad? At least there is less smog, right? But if we are right and you ignore us, a large number of the world's cities and farms will be destroyed.
10) Vaccines. Same thing. Right now there is a measles outbreak in my state because of the lie about vaccines. This lie has put kids in the hospital here. If allowed to spread, this lie kills children.
11) Birth control "abortafacient." This one is ridiculous because NOT using birth control destroys a lot more fertilized eggs. Most do not implant, with or without birth control. But with birth control, fewer are fertilized to begin with. This lie is pernicious, because women who can't control when they become pregnant are terribly vulnerable and dependent.
12) Liberal baby killers/Satan worshippers/pro-ISIS traitors/whatever. This whole family of lies which denies that your political opponents could possibly be arguing in good faith and justifies any means in service of the end goal of beating the evil liberals is PERSONALLY hurtful to me. Also, it is used to justify anti-democracy measures like refusing to let a Democratic president appoint judges, like shameless gerrymandering and voter suppression, like death threats to Steve King's challenger which drove her from the race.
13) "Rigged system." The purpose of this lie in its many forms (usually exaggerating some real flaw) is to make people think we have already lost our democracy, so that they won't fight to defend it. It is insidious.
When I hear these lies, it infuriates me, even though I know most of the people spreading them are more victims of a con rather than con men. Spreading these lies is what enabled the rise of Trump, who is a demogogue, turning us into a banana republic. I can no longer allow them to go unquestioned in my presence. They are too dangerous.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:59 AM on June 6, 2017 [113 favorites]
sigh:
Exclusive: Comey will stop short of saying Trump obstructed justice in Flynn probe, source says
Exclusive: Comey will stop short of saying Trump obstructed justice in Flynn probe, source says
There will be much in former FBI Director James Comey’s upcoming congressional testimony that will make the White House uncomfortable, but he will stop short of saying the president interfered with the agency's probe into former national security adviser Michael Flynn, a source familiar with Comey's thinking told ABC News.posted by Rhaomi at 12:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Although Comey has told associates he will not accuse the President of obstructing justice, he will dispute the president’s contention that Comey told him three times he is not under investigation. [...]
“He is not going to Congress to make accusations about the President’s intent, instead he’s there to share his concerns,” the source said, and tell the committee “what made him uneasy” and why he felt a need to write the memo documenting the conversation.
As Sean Spicer flees the briefing room after arriving ~30 minutes late and relying on tough questions to get him out of jams like a talk radio host who basically said "people are sick of Washington and I hope you drain the swamp," a reporter says "but we waited so long."
posted by zachlipton at 12:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Extremely important news you all need to know right now: the Secretary of Agriculture and Karen "Mother" Pence unveiled a new beehive at the Vice President's Residence.
The bees are inside the perimeter! This is their moment. Go bees!
posted by zachlipton at 12:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [118 favorites]
The bees are inside the perimeter! This is their moment. Go bees!
posted by zachlipton at 12:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [118 favorites]
So Trump spoke with repeat customers of his family business, the Saudi royal family, and was subsequently willing to go on Twitter and accuse Qatar of funding terrorism and applauding their diplomatic isolation, without first warning the troops at the largest US military base in the Middle East, in Qatar.
It is as if he is holding up a sign saying WILL SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT FOR EMOLUMENTS.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [26 favorites]
It is as if he is holding up a sign saying WILL SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT FOR EMOLUMENTS.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [26 favorites]
@zachlipton At first I thought you meant Karen Pence is the Sec of Ag and I was unfazed. Like "weird that I forgot, but sounds about right for this 'administration'".
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [27 favorites]
Link to recent Spicer conference
Link to ongoing State Department conference with new spokesperson Heather Nauert
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:09 PM on June 6, 2017
Link to ongoing State Department conference with new spokesperson Heather Nauert
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:09 PM on June 6, 2017
... insulting the mayor of London...
People quickly came to the mayor's defense, including J. K. Rowling, who said, "It's called 'leadership', Donald... If we need an alarmist blowhard, we'll call."
It's interesting to see more and more mayors – London, Pittsburgh, Houston, New York City, Portland (OR) getting into the news. A few years ago Benjamin Barber wrote a book titled If Mayors Ruled the World, which took as its thesis that "“Driven by universal ideologies and empowered by sovereignty and central government, nations too often imagine they can cure maladies, eradicate problems completely. They end up incapacitated by their power and hubris. Cities offer a stark contrast: pragmatic in approach, close to real people and their problems, and without sufficient autonomous power to cure anything independently, they must be satisfied with mitigation… They do what can be done rather than all that should be done. Ironically, their dependency drives cities to interdependence.”
In other words, Congresses and Parliaments can sit around and talk for hours, but if you're in charge and somebody's trash doesn't get picked up, you hear about it, and have to do something right away. As Barber says, "There is... no liberal or conservative way of picking up the garbage." He cites a 2011 report saying that U.S. mayors at that time had a 64% confidence rating, as opposed to 47% for the president and 19% for Congress.
p.s. Only two U.S. presidents previously were mayors: Calvin Coolidge in Northampton MA and Grover Cleveland in Buffalo NY.
posted by LeLiLo at 12:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
People quickly came to the mayor's defense, including J. K. Rowling, who said, "It's called 'leadership', Donald... If we need an alarmist blowhard, we'll call."
It's interesting to see more and more mayors – London, Pittsburgh, Houston, New York City, Portland (OR) getting into the news. A few years ago Benjamin Barber wrote a book titled If Mayors Ruled the World, which took as its thesis that "“Driven by universal ideologies and empowered by sovereignty and central government, nations too often imagine they can cure maladies, eradicate problems completely. They end up incapacitated by their power and hubris. Cities offer a stark contrast: pragmatic in approach, close to real people and their problems, and without sufficient autonomous power to cure anything independently, they must be satisfied with mitigation… They do what can be done rather than all that should be done. Ironically, their dependency drives cities to interdependence.”
In other words, Congresses and Parliaments can sit around and talk for hours, but if you're in charge and somebody's trash doesn't get picked up, you hear about it, and have to do something right away. As Barber says, "There is... no liberal or conservative way of picking up the garbage." He cites a 2011 report saying that U.S. mayors at that time had a 64% confidence rating, as opposed to 47% for the president and 19% for Congress.
p.s. Only two U.S. presidents previously were mayors: Calvin Coolidge in Northampton MA and Grover Cleveland in Buffalo NY.
posted by LeLiLo at 12:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
sigh
FWIW, Greg Sargent thinks this isn't that abnormal:
FWIW, Greg Sargent thinks this isn't that abnormal:
This is not surprising at all. Comey can't comment on whether there was corrupt intent. He should simply recount what happened.posted by zombieflanders at 12:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
As Barber says, "There is... no liberal or conservative way of picking up the garbage."
We'll see to what extent this remains true under the rising tide of partisanship...
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
We'll see to what extent this remains true under the rising tide of partisanship...
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, the whole "Comey is nothingburger" is so annoying. He is there to answer questions. That's it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Exactly. Comey commenting on whether people did things wrong is what got us into this mess in the first place. It's sure as hell not his place to announce that someone committed obstruction of justice. He's a witness now, and his job is to tell us what he witnessed, not publicly accuse people of crimes.
posted by zachlipton at 12:14 PM on June 6, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:14 PM on June 6, 2017 [46 favorites]
This is not surprising at all. Comey can't comment on whether there was corrupt intent. He should simply recount what happened.
'zactly. His testimony can be very important and very damning without being a occupydemocrats.com Boom! Takedown! Shade! ZOMG! He's there to report what he knows. That's neither a nothingburger nor is it the one weird trick that will solve Trump.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
'zactly. His testimony can be very important and very damning without being a occupydemocrats.com Boom! Takedown! Shade! ZOMG! He's there to report what he knows. That's neither a nothingburger nor is it the one weird trick that will solve Trump.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
As Barber says, "There is... no liberal or conservative way of picking up the garbage."
Well, you can hire municipal garbage collectors as public employees or contract it out to companies that slash pay and benefits in pursuit of profit, then end up costing more anyway.
posted by Etrigan at 12:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [82 favorites]
Well, you can hire municipal garbage collectors as public employees or contract it out to companies that slash pay and benefits in pursuit of profit, then end up costing more anyway.
posted by Etrigan at 12:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [82 favorites]
Bill was president for 8 years, and nothing really bad happened.
I suppose that depends on one's perspective.
* Rwandan genocide. We did nothing.
* Don't Ask, Don't Tell
* Defense of Marriage Act
* 1994 Federal Crimes Bill (which included the three-strikes rule, resulting in the highest number of Americans incarcerated in history. It also expanded the death penalty to 60! crimes -- including a couple that don't include murder, -- and increased drug conviction rates. ) AEDPA was passed a couple of years later, and it restricted the ability of judges to pass more lenient sentences.
* Repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. Passed Riegle-Neal, which allowed for bank mergers. Deregulated the derivatives market. All of which led directly to the financial collapse of 2008. Before 1998, 5% of mortgages were in subprime loans. By 2008, 30% were.
* He also pioneered "extraordinary extradition." Which gave rise to CIA black ops torture sites in foreign countries.
I voted for him twice. Yes, some bad things happened and they were his fault.
posted by zarq at 12:17 PM on June 6, 2017 [89 favorites]
I suppose that depends on one's perspective.
* Rwandan genocide. We did nothing.
* Don't Ask, Don't Tell
* Defense of Marriage Act
* 1994 Federal Crimes Bill (which included the three-strikes rule, resulting in the highest number of Americans incarcerated in history. It also expanded the death penalty to 60! crimes -- including a couple that don't include murder, -- and increased drug conviction rates. ) AEDPA was passed a couple of years later, and it restricted the ability of judges to pass more lenient sentences.
* Repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. Passed Riegle-Neal, which allowed for bank mergers. Deregulated the derivatives market. All of which led directly to the financial collapse of 2008. Before 1998, 5% of mortgages were in subprime loans. By 2008, 30% were.
* He also pioneered "extraordinary extradition." Which gave rise to CIA black ops torture sites in foreign countries.
I voted for him twice. Yes, some bad things happened and they were his fault.
posted by zarq at 12:17 PM on June 6, 2017 [89 favorites]
Yeah, witnesses generally testify as to what they witnessed, not as to whether the events witnessed constitute a crime. Though he might be asked hypotheticals based on his expertise in law enforcement ("in your experience, has anyone ever done [actions that Trump did] and been convicted of [obstruction of justice]" "in your experience, is it common for subjects of investigations to do XYZ").
posted by melissasaurus at 12:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
As Barber says, "There is... no liberal or conservative way of picking up the garbage."
Here in my city, there may be no liberal or conservative way of picking up garbage, but there sure is a liberal and conservative way of painting lines on streets. If you put a bike lane in, you're a liberal. If you don't, you're a conservative (though you're probably still, bafflingly, a registered Democrat, because we do that here). I've never seen so many people get so discombobulated over some lines on a road, it's bonkers.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Here in my city, there may be no liberal or conservative way of picking up garbage, but there sure is a liberal and conservative way of painting lines on streets. If you put a bike lane in, you're a liberal. If you don't, you're a conservative (though you're probably still, bafflingly, a registered Democrat, because we do that here). I've never seen so many people get so discombobulated over some lines on a road, it's bonkers.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
This is not surprising at all. Comey can't comment on whether there was corrupt intent. He should simply recount what happened.
'zactly. His testimony can be very important and very damning without being a occupydemocrats.com Boom! Takedown! Shade! ZOMG! He's there to report what he knows. That's neither a nothingburger nor is it the one weird trick that will solve Trump.
It's becoming more and more clear that there won't be a BOOM moment that takes everything down. The Republicans won't turn on Trump and he is too egotistical to resign even if it's costing him money or he is facing jail time.
We are looking at a long, destructive, wearying battle of attrition that will change approval ratings by 1% per week at most until election day 2020. Things will go up and down for Trump, but trend down, and he will get more and more desperate and less and less "Presidential" as the weeks, months, and years pass.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:22 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
'zactly. His testimony can be very important and very damning without being a occupydemocrats.com Boom! Takedown! Shade! ZOMG! He's there to report what he knows. That's neither a nothingburger nor is it the one weird trick that will solve Trump.
It's becoming more and more clear that there won't be a BOOM moment that takes everything down. The Republicans won't turn on Trump and he is too egotistical to resign even if it's costing him money or he is facing jail time.
We are looking at a long, destructive, wearying battle of attrition that will change approval ratings by 1% per week at most until election day 2020. Things will go up and down for Trump, but trend down, and he will get more and more desperate and less and less "Presidential" as the weeks, months, and years pass.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:22 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yes, some bad things happened
I know, but nothing like the right wing fantasies. Just the normal kind of bad stuff that happens under all presidents.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:23 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
I know, but nothing like the right wing fantasies. Just the normal kind of bad stuff that happens under all presidents.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:23 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sounds like Douche Canoe Twitter Bingo, to me. Quick, someone make a bingo card.
Okay.
posted by OntologicalPuppy at 12:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
Okay.
posted by OntologicalPuppy at 12:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
Canadian Foreign Policy address was made today by our Foreign Minister.
Here's the part about the US. Whole thing is worth a read just because it's so durn different then what is coming out of the US. Even though I live here I get overwhelmed with all of teh US goings on and forget that yes, we really do things different and everything doesn't just totally suck right now. Right now feeling this way is more a relief thing then a pride thing.
I tried to find a previous years address to see how much the US part changed but I couldn't easily. Maybe someone else can. I think the key though is that we're going to be doing more of our own thing, this includes looking straight to China and working with Europe et al.
The United States has truly been the indispensable nation, Mr. Speaker. For their unique, seven-decades-long contribution to our shared peace and prosperity, and on behalf of all Canadians, I would like to profoundly thank our American friends.
As I have argued, Canada believes strongly that this stable, predictable international order has been deeply in our national interest. And we believe it has helped foster peace and prosperity for our southern neighbours, too.
Yet it would be naive or hypocritical to claim before this House that all Americans today agree. Indeed, many of the voters in last year's presidential election cast their ballots, animated in part by a desire to shrug off the burden of world leadership. To say this is not controversial: it is simply a fact.
Canada is grateful, and will always be grateful, to our neighbour for the outsized role it has played in the world. And we seek and will continue to seek to persuade our friends that their continued international leadership is very much in their national interest—as well as that of the rest of the free world.
Yet we also recognize that this is ultimately not our decision to make. It is a choice Americans must make for themselves.
The fact that our friend and ally has come to question the very worth of its mantle of global leadership, puts into sharper focus the need for the rest of us to set our own clear and sovereign course. For Canada that course must be the renewal, indeed the strengthening, of the postwar multilateral order.
We will follow this path, with open hands and open hearts extended to our American friends, seeking to make common cause as we have so often in the past. And indeed, as we continue to do now on multiple fronts—from border security, to the defence of North America through NORAD, to the fight against Daesh, to our efforts within NATO, to nurturing and improving our trading relationship, which is the strongest in the world.
And, at the same time, we will work with other like-minded people and countries who share our aims.
Mr. Speaker, to put this in sharper focus, those aims are as follows:
First, we will robustly support the rules-based international order, and all its institutions, and seek ways to strengthen and improve them.
We will strongly support the multilateral forums where such discussions are held—including the G7, the G20, the OAS, APEC, the WTO, the Commonwealth and La Francophonie, the Arctic Council, and of course NATO and the UN.
A cornerstone of our multilateral agenda is our steadfast commitment to the Transatlantic Alliance. Our bond is manifest in CETA, our historic trade agreement with the European Union—which we believe in and warmly support—and in our military deployment this summer to Latvia.
There can be no clearer sign that NATO and Article 5 are at the heart of Canada’s national security policy.
We will strive for leadership in all these multilateral forums. We are honoured to be hosting the G7 next year, and we are energetically pursuing a two-year term on the UN Security Council. We seek this UN seat because we wish to be heard. For we are safer and more prosperous, Mr. Speaker, when more of the world shares Canadian values.
posted by Jalliah at 12:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [34 favorites]
"Trump also randomly quipped that "Jared's actually become more famous than me" -- on heels of son-in-law's TIME cover"
That is exactly the same joke Donald made about Comey. Before he fired him.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [58 favorites]
That is exactly the same joke Donald made about Comey. Before he fired him.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [58 favorites]
Steve Bousquet, Adam Playford, Tampa Bay Times: At least 3 Florida counties targeted by Russian hacking attempt. I didn't pull a quote, but it basically corroborates some details from the NSA report of Russia using the phishing method as described.
Since the NSA report got leaked, this article from last December in the Daily Beast keeps coming up in my head: Donald Trump’s Pollster Says the Election Came Down to Five Counties. In these rather specific counties, Trump outperformed expectations and significantly outperformed Romney's numbers. Five counties were enough to flip the entire election. Now we're finding out Florida was targeted by the Russians. And a recount in Michigan was prevented.
My brain tells me there's currently no hard evidence of vote tampering. My gut says the vote was tampered, the election was stolen, the SCOTUS seat was stolen, and the upper levels of the GOP were both aware and involved. And I totally feel like a crazy person when I type this out.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:28 PM on June 6, 2017 [110 favorites]
Since the NSA report got leaked, this article from last December in the Daily Beast keeps coming up in my head: Donald Trump’s Pollster Says the Election Came Down to Five Counties. In these rather specific counties, Trump outperformed expectations and significantly outperformed Romney's numbers. Five counties were enough to flip the entire election. Now we're finding out Florida was targeted by the Russians. And a recount in Michigan was prevented.
My brain tells me there's currently no hard evidence of vote tampering. My gut says the vote was tampered, the election was stolen, the SCOTUS seat was stolen, and the upper levels of the GOP were both aware and involved. And I totally feel like a crazy person when I type this out.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:28 PM on June 6, 2017 [110 favorites]
Annie Karni of Politico pointed out on Twitter that Melania had been in DC during most of Trump's Twitter tantrums over the past few days, so perhaps she isn't really the distraction that other members of the media think she is.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is it possible that the man who is PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND LIKELY THE MOST FAMOUS PERSON ALIVE is still driven by the primary motivation to be on the cover of the New York tabloids to the exclusion of all others? (yes for sure that is the thing that is the case)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
At this point I don't think it's at all inconceivable that Saudi Arabia will invade Qatar and Americans in uniform there will be ordered not to intervene and instead just watch in horror as their hosts are killed.
And I don't know Saudi's capacity for fast mobilization or anything, but part of me kind of expects it to happen during the Comey hearings.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
And I don't know Saudi's capacity for fast mobilization or anything, but part of me kind of expects it to happen during the Comey hearings.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
OntologicalPuppy: I like how "Erodes confidence in Democratic institutions" is in the traditional "FREE" space.
posted by yhbc at 12:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 12:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
I suspect the reason Trump is doing a speech at the same time as the testimony is because he was tricked/goaded into it by his staff/handlers to reduce the chance of tweeting foot-in-mouth gaffs as he watched the testimony in real-time.
posted by Static Vagabond at 12:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Static Vagabond at 12:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [30 favorites]
Just to add to the potential weirdness of the whole Qatar thing, Qatar is in the Steele dossier regarding that whole 19.5 % investment in Roseneft oil privatization thing.
Roseneft. This is the ball I'm keeping an eye on, even though it may be the toughest nut to crack. I hope this is another connection made, but not getting my hopes up.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Roseneft. This is the ball I'm keeping an eye on, even though it may be the toughest nut to crack. I hope this is another connection made, but not getting my hopes up.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
I know, but nothing like the right wing fantasies. Just the normal kind of bad stuff that happens under all presidents.
We shouldn't ever become complacent enough to think any of those things are normal or acceptable, simply because Republicans came up with fake conspiracy accusations to delegitimize his Presidency. We need to set the bar higher than that.
posted by zarq at 12:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
We shouldn't ever become complacent enough to think any of those things are normal or acceptable, simply because Republicans came up with fake conspiracy accusations to delegitimize his Presidency. We need to set the bar higher than that.
posted by zarq at 12:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
We shouldn't ever become complacent enough to think any of those things are normal or acceptable, simply because Republicans came up with fake conspiracy accusations to delegitimize his Presidency.
The point of that sentence was simply that those conspiracy accusations were indeed fake. That's all.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:39 PM on June 6, 2017
The point of that sentence was simply that those conspiracy accusations were indeed fake. That's all.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:39 PM on June 6, 2017
The difference being that the SNP has left-wing policies while Zuckerberg is almost certain to run on a bunch of middle-of-the-road garbage about Disruption!!!, saving Silicon Valley from itself, public-private partnerships, the appification of government, and giving himself a tax cut/making it easier for him to do business in the future.
I may have been a bit too breif and glib with that one. The left are just as dumb as the right when it comes to virtuous voting. I know plenty of progressives and lefties that couldn't stomach incremental pragmatism and voted for Johnson simply because he smoked the ganja.
The crux of my passing comment that your mythical virtuous left voter was a true scotsman.
posted by Talez at 12:41 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
I may have been a bit too breif and glib with that one. The left are just as dumb as the right when it comes to virtuous voting. I know plenty of progressives and lefties that couldn't stomach incremental pragmatism and voted for Johnson simply because he smoked the ganja.
The crux of my passing comment that your mythical virtuous left voter was a true scotsman.
posted by Talez at 12:41 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's sure as hell not his place to announce that someone committed obstruction of justice.
Fuck that and fuck him. If he has a shred of decency left, which he doesn't, he would have to treat Trump with the same shameful disregard for proper procedure and basic following-the-law that he did Clinton. Knowing that he has no shred of decency left, the reason why he won't be announcing that Trump attempted to obstruct justice is very emphatically not that he is so sober and above-board or whatever positive-ish noises. It'll be to shield Trump and the fellow members of his treasonous and fundamentally dishonorable party.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:55 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Fuck that and fuck him. If he has a shred of decency left, which he doesn't, he would have to treat Trump with the same shameful disregard for proper procedure and basic following-the-law that he did Clinton. Knowing that he has no shred of decency left, the reason why he won't be announcing that Trump attempted to obstruct justice is very emphatically not that he is so sober and above-board or whatever positive-ish noises. It'll be to shield Trump and the fellow members of his treasonous and fundamentally dishonorable party.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:55 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Where's the link to donate to Reality Winner's defense fund? Because if that's NOT a thing yet, we're failing at America. I have some moneyz and will.
Yeah, the whole "Comey is nothingburger" is so annoying. He is there to answer questions. That's it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:12 AM on June 7 [2 favorites +] [!]
Levity pls.
I've got to say, it would be the devil's own choice if Zuckerberg were the Democratic candidate, and thinking about this gave me a lot of understanding of "I will NOT vote for Hillary even if we go to the devil" voters. I...don't even know what I'd do. Hope and pray that something during the campaign made matters clearer to me, I guess.
posted by Frowner at 3:44 AM on June 7 [3 favorites +] [!]
I would not protest vote, if the Republican was worse.
I don't give too much of a shit if they are fighting amongst themselves--keep screaming for Sessions, Gorka, and Bannon's dismissals.
AND prosecutions. All talking like firing is enough.
We are looking at a long, destructive, wearying battle of attrition that will change approval ratings by 1% per week at most until election day 2020. Things will go up and down for Trump, but trend down, and he will get more and more desperate and less and less "Presidential" as the weeks, months, and years pass.
posted by Glibpaxman at 4:22 AM on June 7 [1 favorite +] [!]
Hi. I hate Republicans. Actively. I purge them from my social space and make it costly to believe what they believe in every possible way I can. It is exhausting. I do this with no other ideology or creed, but when someone is exerting power irresponsibly and there is visible and legal recourse available to you, and literally public opinion that must be won to change things, and willfully obtuse participants making things worse for people, ostracize them. Economically. My racist uncles and aunts and fathers and mothers of the R persuasion get no truck from me, and get shamed/boycotted when/if I find out. I live abroad so this is easier for me, but still. Yes. War of attrition. Make it hurt. They have their ballot and that is their choice, but I have lots more choices available to me, and I have changed...if not minds, at least public behavior. Do it in your space too please.
posted by saysthis at 12:55 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, the whole "Comey is nothingburger" is so annoying. He is there to answer questions. That's it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:12 AM on June 7 [2 favorites +] [!]
Levity pls.
I've got to say, it would be the devil's own choice if Zuckerberg were the Democratic candidate, and thinking about this gave me a lot of understanding of "I will NOT vote for Hillary even if we go to the devil" voters. I...don't even know what I'd do. Hope and pray that something during the campaign made matters clearer to me, I guess.
posted by Frowner at 3:44 AM on June 7 [3 favorites +] [!]
I would not protest vote, if the Republican was worse.
I don't give too much of a shit if they are fighting amongst themselves--keep screaming for Sessions, Gorka, and Bannon's dismissals.
AND prosecutions. All talking like firing is enough.
We are looking at a long, destructive, wearying battle of attrition that will change approval ratings by 1% per week at most until election day 2020. Things will go up and down for Trump, but trend down, and he will get more and more desperate and less and less "Presidential" as the weeks, months, and years pass.
posted by Glibpaxman at 4:22 AM on June 7 [1 favorite +] [!]
Hi. I hate Republicans. Actively. I purge them from my social space and make it costly to believe what they believe in every possible way I can. It is exhausting. I do this with no other ideology or creed, but when someone is exerting power irresponsibly and there is visible and legal recourse available to you, and literally public opinion that must be won to change things, and willfully obtuse participants making things worse for people, ostracize them. Economically. My racist uncles and aunts and fathers and mothers of the R persuasion get no truck from me, and get shamed/boycotted when/if I find out. I live abroad so this is easier for me, but still. Yes. War of attrition. Make it hurt. They have their ballot and that is their choice, but I have lots more choices available to me, and I have changed...if not minds, at least public behavior. Do it in your space too please.
posted by saysthis at 12:55 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
I would not protest vote, if the Republican was worse.
And that is the question. Not to pre-litigate 2020 (pre-litigate! is that a thing now?) but Zuckerberg would run on inequality and the surveillance state, given some green coating. He is smart and evil, he doesn't have any government ties holding him back, he believes a number of things about government that I find terrifying, he has no interest in human rights for anyone who wants any kind of privacy (like trans people, for instance), he has no sympathy for anyone who does not want to be surveilled every minute. His company has no problem with racism, fake news and coercion, and his allies in Silicon Valley have no problem with destroying the health and livelihood of most working class Americans.
My fear of Zuckerburg would be very different from my fear of Trump, but quite possibly of the same severity - Zuckerberg as president could establish a coercive surveillance state which makes the one we have now look trivial, and he would, because he believes in surveillance the way Pence believes in Jesus. He's not even an opportunist, he's a zealot. He's a bad guy - the fact that he is very, very rich and doesn't froth at the mouth with hatred for the gays should not conceal this.
A Zuckerberg presidency would be the end of the American project just as surely as a Trump presidency, totally unlike the presidency of your average disappointing Democrat. It would be a science fiction dystopia, but the other kind.
posted by Frowner at 1:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [53 favorites]
And that is the question. Not to pre-litigate 2020 (pre-litigate! is that a thing now?) but Zuckerberg would run on inequality and the surveillance state, given some green coating. He is smart and evil, he doesn't have any government ties holding him back, he believes a number of things about government that I find terrifying, he has no interest in human rights for anyone who wants any kind of privacy (like trans people, for instance), he has no sympathy for anyone who does not want to be surveilled every minute. His company has no problem with racism, fake news and coercion, and his allies in Silicon Valley have no problem with destroying the health and livelihood of most working class Americans.
My fear of Zuckerburg would be very different from my fear of Trump, but quite possibly of the same severity - Zuckerberg as president could establish a coercive surveillance state which makes the one we have now look trivial, and he would, because he believes in surveillance the way Pence believes in Jesus. He's not even an opportunist, he's a zealot. He's a bad guy - the fact that he is very, very rich and doesn't froth at the mouth with hatred for the gays should not conceal this.
A Zuckerberg presidency would be the end of the American project just as surely as a Trump presidency, totally unlike the presidency of your average disappointing Democrat. It would be a science fiction dystopia, but the other kind.
posted by Frowner at 1:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [53 favorites]
To loop back on the "Dems are taking forever to approve my people, including Ambassadors." tweet, Heather Nauert responded to a question concerning "some tweets" in today's State Department press briefing that they have a lot of people going through the security clearance process, and that "this. just. takes. time."
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Somehow it only just hit me that Jill Stein was at that RT gala with Putin and Michael Flynn because obviously THEY WERE SUPPORTING HER CAMPAIGN, successfully trying to stop Clinton.
I'm going to have a lie down.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [62 favorites]
I'm going to have a lie down.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [62 favorites]
I genuinely loved Hillary. Still do. Thought she was the best choice all along. But I also recognize that not everyone felt that way. What disgusts me is that so many people couldn't get the fuck over it.
I'm a Democrat. With only one or two exceptions in my life, I've voted for Democrats down the line. But in any election, if I was given the choice between a sane and competent Republican or a blisteringly incompetent, stupid, hurtful, outwardly racist and sexist and treasonous Democrat, I would not hesitate to vote for the Republican.
What disgusts me about Republicans is that they were faced with the reverse of that choice and they couldn't get over themselves enough to do the right thing.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [131 favorites]
I'm a Democrat. With only one or two exceptions in my life, I've voted for Democrats down the line. But in any election, if I was given the choice between a sane and competent Republican or a blisteringly incompetent, stupid, hurtful, outwardly racist and sexist and treasonous Democrat, I would not hesitate to vote for the Republican.
What disgusts me about Republicans is that they were faced with the reverse of that choice and they couldn't get over themselves enough to do the right thing.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [131 favorites]
They still can't.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 1:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
Jordan is cutting back on diplomatic ties with Qatar.
posted by PenDevil at 1:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 1:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
That Eric Trump Foundation story is disgusting and it sounds like Eric got talked into channeling the charity funds into dear old Dad's pocket. No doubt he got lectured on family loyalty. So rich people donate money to the foundation and take a write-off on their taxes and that money is funneled directly into Trump Golf Courses and it is also given to other charities so that they also will funnel money into Trump Golf Courses. All at a specially inflated price. I don't suppose anyone can be prosecuted for this but maybe NY and NJ could make it against the law for anyone running a charity to give that money to a family business.
No wonder Trump is comfortable charging tax payers for the use of his golf carts by the USSS. He's been using tax money (in a roundabout way) to run his golf courses for years.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
No wonder Trump is comfortable charging tax payers for the use of his golf carts by the USSS. He's been using tax money (in a roundabout way) to run his golf courses for years.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
I NEEDED a POTUS thread. I am frothing at teh mouth. Till now I'd been distant, remote, away on a different continent with some random passport. This man was NOT my problem.
Until now.
His idiocy will cause a conflagration of the likes unseen in mankind's history.
And there will always be those who'll rush in like jackals to devour the corpse.
So there's no guarantee that cooler heads can prevail in time to prevent it.
They trying to provoke and nudge and prod this THING into triggering their rapturous Armageddon.
oh thank god for cooler heads ::hamburger::
Putin confirmed Russia’s position in favor of settlement of the crisis situations through a dialogue
posted by infini at 1:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Until now.
His idiocy will cause a conflagration of the likes unseen in mankind's history.
And there will always be those who'll rush in like jackals to devour the corpse.
So there's no guarantee that cooler heads can prevail in time to prevent it.
They trying to provoke and nudge and prod this THING into triggering their rapturous Armageddon.
oh thank god for cooler heads ::hamburger::
Putin confirmed Russia’s position in favor of settlement of the crisis situations through a dialogue
posted by infini at 1:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I genuinely loved Hillary. Still do...
...What disgusts me about Republicans is that they were faced with the reverse of that choice and they couldn't get over themselves enough to do the right thing.
My feeling about this timeline is that we are in full "crazy part of history" mode and it's unavoidable. If Hillary had squeaked out the victory instead of Donald I think we'd still be having a crazy shit show, because that's were the Republicans are now. The timeline were Hillary wins with an overwhelming majority is the sane one.
posted by bongo_x at 1:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [34 favorites]
...What disgusts me about Republicans is that they were faced with the reverse of that choice and they couldn't get over themselves enough to do the right thing.
My feeling about this timeline is that we are in full "crazy part of history" mode and it's unavoidable. If Hillary had squeaked out the victory instead of Donald I think we'd still be having a crazy shit show, because that's were the Republicans are now. The timeline were Hillary wins with an overwhelming majority is the sane one.
posted by bongo_x at 1:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [34 favorites]
The Hill: Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Corker (R-TN) learns about Trump's Qatar tweets, stunned into silence
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [47 favorites]
The timeline were Hillary wins with an overwhelming majority is the sane one.
If we were in a sane timeline, Trump never would have been a candidate.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [39 favorites]
If we were in a sane timeline, Trump never would have been a candidate.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [39 favorites]
Somehow it only just hit me that Jill Stein was at that RT gala with Putin and Michael Flynn because obviously THEY WERE SUPPORTING HER CAMPAIGN, successfully trying to stop Clinton.
Yeah, there's a non-zero chance Dr. Stein ends up as one of the folks Mueller is investigating.
I hoping that, in her case, she was just wooly headed and oblivious (with bad recordkeeping regarding funding sources), as opposed to knowingly corrupt. Seems like such a stupid reason to go to prison when you know you were never going to be anything but a spoiler.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yeah, there's a non-zero chance Dr. Stein ends up as one of the folks Mueller is investigating.
I hoping that, in her case, she was just wooly headed and oblivious (with bad recordkeeping regarding funding sources), as opposed to knowingly corrupt. Seems like such a stupid reason to go to prison when you know you were never going to be anything but a spoiler.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
I don't object to Trump being a candidate, as long as he polls behind Vermin Supreme
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Possible actions that The Douche Canoe might undertake:
-Admits to a crime accidentally
-Admits to a crime gleefully and on purpose
-Insults Comey
-Insults Comey and the whole Senate Intelligence Committee
-Whines about the courts and doubles down on the Travel Ban
-Explicitly calls the Travel Ban, "the Muslim Travel Ban"
-Insults allies
-Reveals current classified intelligence
-Praises Mike Flynn
-Praises Putin, Erdogan, Duerte, or other autocrat
-Says something antisemitic
-Retweets Russian Propaganda
-Admits to recent contact with Mike Flynn
-Has some sort of major vascular failure either in the heart or brain due to stress
You left out: Inexplicably continues to call the Comey hearing a liberal witch-hunt run by the election losers, despite Congress being completely in Republican hands.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:41 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
-Admits to a crime accidentally
-Admits to a crime gleefully and on purpose
-Insults Comey
-Insults Comey and the whole Senate Intelligence Committee
-Whines about the courts and doubles down on the Travel Ban
-Explicitly calls the Travel Ban, "the Muslim Travel Ban"
-Insults allies
-Reveals current classified intelligence
-Praises Mike Flynn
-Praises Putin, Erdogan, Duerte, or other autocrat
-Says something antisemitic
-Retweets Russian Propaganda
-Admits to recent contact with Mike Flynn
-Has some sort of major vascular failure either in the heart or brain due to stress
You left out: Inexplicably continues to call the Comey hearing a liberal witch-hunt run by the election losers, despite Congress being completely in Republican hands.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:41 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
per the infinite-quantum-universes theory, there is a timeline where Vermin Supreme is president right now and you just know the lucky fuckers in that timeline are all "lol, how crazy is this, it can't get any crazier, we're in the crazy timeline lolol" and good god damn I wish I had a portal gun so I could drop in there and just scream "REALITY WINNER! REALITY WINNER!" at them for a while. they wouldn't get it but it'd make me feel better in some small way
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:43 PM on June 6, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:43 PM on June 6, 2017 [54 favorites]
I can see it now:
Zuckerberg is not your friend. He will never be your friend. But Tom is your friend. From the very moment he knew you existed, and he wouldn't let go. Vote Tom Anderson 2020.
(annnd, nope. Other than people that admire billionaires, I don't think anyone really likes Zuckerberg, let alone like enough to vote for him for any relevant position. He'll probably get his rich venture capitalist buddies to lobby the DNC for him, but that will be it)
posted by lmfsilva at 1:49 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Zuckerberg is not your friend. He will never be your friend. But Tom is your friend. From the very moment he knew you existed, and he wouldn't let go. Vote Tom Anderson 2020.
(annnd, nope. Other than people that admire billionaires, I don't think anyone really likes Zuckerberg, let alone like enough to vote for him for any relevant position. He'll probably get his rich venture capitalist buddies to lobby the DNC for him, but that will be it)
posted by lmfsilva at 1:49 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mark Zuckerberg for President?!?
if he's still talking about this in 2019, we'll just need to send Vermin Supreme to kick his ass.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:50 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
if he's still talking about this in 2019, we'll just need to send Vermin Supreme to kick his ass.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:50 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
BREAKING: Mauritania cuts diplomatic relations with Qatar
posted by PenDevil at 1:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 1:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
From the 6/6 Daily 202 column linked above:
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
... All of the let-'er-rip tweets in the wake of the attack on London Bridge have been focused on ginning up the GOP base. The president believes that, so long as grass-roots activists back him, his adopted party’s lawmakers will have no choice but to follow. The fact that so many politicians have caved and capitulated over the past two years has taught him that he can get away with his unusual behavior. What the Republican governing class has never understood is that Trump doesn’t really respect people who kowtow to him; he sees it as a sign of their weakness. Seeing such timidity has only emboldened this president to pursue this bottom-up, outside-in approach. There is no evidence he will change until elected Republicans buck him en masse.Emphasis mine (italics), then theirs (bold).
-- Here’s the rub: There are some fresh signs that Trump’s act is wearing thin. While Trump’s floor of support has thus far stayed surprisingly high, the percentage of Americans who “strongly” approve of the president has continued to slip — from 30 percent earlier in the spring to about 20 percent now.
-- More and more GOP lawmakers are also getting sick and tired of either defending the president or dodging questions about his latest provocative statement.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
Whether or not The Intercept fucked up more than Reality did, who the hell would trust Peter Principle poster child Michael Moore to set up a secure site for whistleblowers?
posted by maudlin at 1:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Documentary filmmaker and liberal activist Michael Moore launched a website called "TrumpiLeaks" on Tuesday to allow whistleblowers to securely leak information to him about U.S. President Donald Trump and his administration.Nobody's going to fall for this, right? Right?
"Patriotic Americans in government, law enforcement or the private sector with knowledge of crimes, breaches of public trust and misconduct committed by Donald J. Trump and his associates are needed to blow the whistle in the name of protecting the United States of America from tyranny," Moore wrote in an open letter on the Huffington Post.
"I know this is risky. I knew we may get in trouble. But too much is at stake to play it safe," Moore wrote.
posted by maudlin at 1:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Charlie Warzel: The Pro-Trump Internet And The Alt-Right Is Turning On Breitbart: "People in MAGA world don't really look to [Breitbart] for breaking news as much as they used to," Jack Posobiec told BuzzFeed News. Chuck Johnson put it more bluntly. "Breitbart is over," he wrote."
Digiday: Breitbart ads plummet nearly 90 percent in three months as Trump’s troubles mount
And Politico's got The 27 Words Trump Wouldn’t Say. This is what Trump was supposed to say to the NATO leaders, from the final version of the speech as approved by all the relevant departments:
Digiday: Breitbart ads plummet nearly 90 percent in three months as Trump’s troubles mount
And Politico's got The 27 Words Trump Wouldn’t Say. This is what Trump was supposed to say to the NATO leaders, from the final version of the speech as approved by all the relevant departments:
“We face many threats, but I stand here before you with a clear message: the U.S. commitment to the NATO alliance and to Article 5 is unwavering.”posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [72 favorites]
I've read things and I still really don't know what in the hell is going on re Qatar.
posted by Jalliah at 1:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [40 favorites]
AP Pro-Trump group labels Comey political ‘showboat’ in new ad
The ad will air on Thursday on CNN and FOX
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:59 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
The ad will air on Thursday on CNN and FOX
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:59 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have a hard time really schadening my freude when the reason Brietbart is tanking is that they aren't awful enough.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:59 PM on June 6, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:59 PM on June 6, 2017 [27 favorites]
Ad numbers don't really matter for Breitbart, they've always been bankrolled by the Mercers.
posted by PenDevil at 2:00 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 2:00 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
Pro-Trump group labels Comey political ‘showboat’ in new ad
Cursed Pot Callskettle Slightly Dirtied Teacup Black
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Cursed Pot Calls
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
I feel like my ability to understand what's going on with Qatar is impeded by my immediate panic response/disaster spiralling about how this is THE START OF WWIII oh god. It's not, right? Right?
posted by yasaman at 2:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 2:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
AP Pro-Trump group labels Comey political ‘showboat’ in new ad
You can do that? Just--just buy airtime to insult a dude?
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [17 favorites]
You can do that? Just--just buy airtime to insult a dude?
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [17 favorites]
AP Pro-Trump group labels Comey political ‘showboat’ in new ad
Wait, why are we still airing political ads, with no big elections coming up?
You can do that? Just--just buy airtime to insult a dude?
Ah.
posted by Melismata at 2:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Wait, why are we still airing political ads, with no big elections coming up?
You can do that? Just--just buy airtime to insult a dude?
Ah.
posted by Melismata at 2:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Fucking Feinstein is cosponsoring legislation with Chuck Grassley for tough mandatory minimums for first offenses (like 10 years) with synthetic opioids. Because that'll help.
Can someone please fucking primary her?!
posted by leotrotsky at 2:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [80 favorites]
Can someone please fucking primary her?!
posted by leotrotsky at 2:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [80 favorites]
>Wait, why are we still airing political ads, with no big elections coming up?
45 has already registered as a candidate, and begun fundraising, for 2020. So technically...
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 2:11 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
45 has already registered as a candidate, and begun fundraising, for 2020. So technically...
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 2:11 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
cjelli,
Okay. I'll try not to sit here mull about it too much. But yeah that's the feeling I have, that I just don't have enough info to fit the pieces together into even some good solid speculation.
It's weird. And the timing unsettling. It has to be connected to Trump's trip somehow. He's fucked things up somehow.
posted by Jalliah at 2:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Okay. I'll try not to sit here mull about it too much. But yeah that's the feeling I have, that I just don't have enough info to fit the pieces together into even some good solid speculation.
It's weird. And the timing unsettling. It has to be connected to Trump's trip somehow. He's fucked things up somehow.
posted by Jalliah at 2:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I hoping that, in her case, she was just wooly headed and oblivious (with bad recordkeeping regarding funding sources), as opposed to knowingly corrupt. Seems like such a stupid reason to go to prison when you know you were never going to be anything but a spoiler.
You seem to be assuming cash wasn't involved. I no longer believe she has any political aspirations or morals, I think she's a huckster and running for President is her job, not winning.
posted by bongo_x at 2:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
You seem to be assuming cash wasn't involved. I no longer believe she has any political aspirations or morals, I think she's a huckster and running for President is her job, not winning.
posted by bongo_x at 2:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
>I've read things and I still really don't know what in the hell is going on re Qatar.
and
> I feel like my ability to understand what's going on with Qatar is impeded by my immediate panic response/disaster spiralling about how this is THE START OF WWIII oh god.
Well, it's sure feeling like the US is planning to stand by while the Saudis seize Qatar's oil reserves. World War III seems like a stretch goal - this will be a purely regional conflict. We're not supposed to worry our pretty heads about it.
War in the Middle East is also good for oil prices. Both Rex-T and Putin approve. And Trump gets to play with the big boy toys.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
and
> I feel like my ability to understand what's going on with Qatar is impeded by my immediate panic response/disaster spiralling about how this is THE START OF WWIII oh god.
Well, it's sure feeling like the US is planning to stand by while the Saudis seize Qatar's oil reserves. World War III seems like a stretch goal - this will be a purely regional conflict. We're not supposed to worry our pretty heads about it.
War in the Middle East is also good for oil prices. Both Rex-T and Putin approve. And Trump gets to play with the big boy toys.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Fucking Feinstein is cosponsoring legislation with Chuck Grassley for tough mandatory minimums for first offenses (like 10 years) with synthetic opioids.
Is there a link for that? The only thing I'm seeing from Feinstein / Grassley is a bill to expand research into weed.
posted by miguelcervantes at 2:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is there a link for that? The only thing I'm seeing from Feinstein / Grassley is a bill to expand research into weed.
posted by miguelcervantes at 2:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
QATAR GOVT OFFICIAL 1: Hey, I just had a reminder pop up on my Outlook calendar. Wasn't today the day we were supposed to send an emissary to lay hands on the Orb of Covfefe and pledge eternal fealty, lest we be cast out from the fellowship of earthly nations forevermore?
QATAR GOVT OFFICIAL 2: oh fuck
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [75 favorites]
QATAR GOVT OFFICIAL 2: oh fuck
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [75 favorites]
World War III seems like a stretch goal - this will be a purely regional conflict. We're not supposed to worry our pretty heads about it.
People forget that Japan's invasion of Manchuria was the proof that the League of Nations was no impediment to war. Honestly, I tend to say WW II started there rather than with the usual Germany-invades-Poland mark.
If the world watches the US sit by while one of its allies invades another, that's not gonna be a good development for anything. And it's definitely going to go down in history as a pivotal moment for whatever happens after that. The ramifications are going to be far beyond regional.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [22 favorites]
People forget that Japan's invasion of Manchuria was the proof that the League of Nations was no impediment to war. Honestly, I tend to say WW II started there rather than with the usual Germany-invades-Poland mark.
If the world watches the US sit by while one of its allies invades another, that's not gonna be a good development for anything. And it's definitely going to go down in history as a pivotal moment for whatever happens after that. The ramifications are going to be far beyond regional.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [22 favorites]
Speaking of Climate Change.....
I learned something very interesting about Congressman Fred Upton today on the NYTimes Daily podcast. You remember Congressman Upton of the infamous Upton Amendment that allowed the House to come together and pass the AHCA Bill? He was, prior to 2010, a moderate Republican who believed in Climate Change and talked about the issue on his web site. In April 2009, he maintained that "climate change is a serious problem that necessitates serious solutions. Everything must be on the table." In 2010 he scrubbed his website of all mention of Climate Change and completely reversed his position.
So why did he change his opinion on Climate change? The Koch Brothers. The Citizens United decision was January 2010 and the Koch Brothers were inspired to use their Billions to force Republicans running for office to toe their line on Climate Change. Anyone who didn't commit to their policy would be primaried and since Upton was about to become the Chairman of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce they made sure he understood they would spare nothing to replace him if he didn't become a Climate denier. Upton turned.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:20 PM on June 6, 2017 [75 favorites]
I learned something very interesting about Congressman Fred Upton today on the NYTimes Daily podcast. You remember Congressman Upton of the infamous Upton Amendment that allowed the House to come together and pass the AHCA Bill? He was, prior to 2010, a moderate Republican who believed in Climate Change and talked about the issue on his web site. In April 2009, he maintained that "climate change is a serious problem that necessitates serious solutions. Everything must be on the table." In 2010 he scrubbed his website of all mention of Climate Change and completely reversed his position.
So why did he change his opinion on Climate change? The Koch Brothers. The Citizens United decision was January 2010 and the Koch Brothers were inspired to use their Billions to force Republicans running for office to toe their line on Climate Change. Anyone who didn't commit to their policy would be primaried and since Upton was about to become the Chairman of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce they made sure he understood they would spare nothing to replace him if he didn't become a Climate denier. Upton turned.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:20 PM on June 6, 2017 [75 favorites]
while the Saudis seize Qatar's oil reserves
This might seem like splitting hairs but oil is not Qatar's thing, its LNG, and associated downstream chems (mainly fertilizers). If you want to get all tinfoil-hatty, the Koch's are very big in fertilizers, most of whose LNG input costs are well hedged.
posted by H. Roark at 2:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
This might seem like splitting hairs but oil is not Qatar's thing, its LNG, and associated downstream chems (mainly fertilizers). If you want to get all tinfoil-hatty, the Koch's are very big in fertilizers, most of whose LNG input costs are well hedged.
posted by H. Roark at 2:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
Benjamin Wittes, the guy that 'ticks, ticks, ticks' before something major dumps just ticked again.
I hate him. *sigh*
Guess I'll be having my phone on in class.
posted by Jalliah at 2:22 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
I hate him. *sigh*
Guess I'll be having my phone on in class.
posted by Jalliah at 2:22 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
He says "tick, tick," on Twitter.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:26 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:26 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: World War III seems like a stretch goal - this will be a purely regional conflict.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:26 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:26 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
War in the Middle East is also good for oil prices. Both Rex-T and Putin approve. And Trump gets to play with the big boy toys.
One thing the U.S. Climate Alliance promises to do is to yuck the yums of "war for oil!" types. Sun and wind are everywhere, more or less. You can't really sit on them and make people pay and fight over them. I for one am looking forward to energy independence, or at least being able to use far less oil and gas.
There are more jobs at Tesla than there are in the entire coal industry. How many years from now until the oil industry goes the same way?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:26 PM on June 6, 2017 [17 favorites]
One thing the U.S. Climate Alliance promises to do is to yuck the yums of "war for oil!" types. Sun and wind are everywhere, more or less. You can't really sit on them and make people pay and fight over them. I for one am looking forward to energy independence, or at least being able to use far less oil and gas.
There are more jobs at Tesla than there are in the entire coal industry. How many years from now until the oil industry goes the same way?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:26 PM on June 6, 2017 [17 favorites]
Hideous little bloodsuckers, but since we call them Trumps now I get your confusion.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 2:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 2:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is there a link for that? The only thing I'm seeing from Feinstein / Grassley is a bill to expand research into weed
Just heard on NPR.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:27 PM on June 6, 2017
Just heard on NPR.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:27 PM on June 6, 2017
Wittes is a friend of Comey and writes for Lawfare. Knowledgeable, but the attention may have gone to his head recently. Latest tweet: "Now please don't read anything into this, but tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick".
If anything really happens, it will end up here, don't worry.
posted by maudlin at 2:28 PM on June 6, 2017
If anything really happens, it will end up here, don't worry.
posted by maudlin at 2:28 PM on June 6, 2017
Ticks? What?
Sosorry I should have been more clear. Benjamin Wittes from Lawfare (also a friend of Comey's) and was the source of some of the stories talking about what happened with Comey and Trump.
On twitter he has been posting 'ticks tick, tick' (like a countdown clock) before a major story dump he know is coming. He just did it again a few minutes ago.
posted by Jalliah at 2:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sosorry I should have been more clear. Benjamin Wittes from Lawfare (also a friend of Comey's) and was the source of some of the stories talking about what happened with Comey and Trump.
On twitter he has been posting 'ticks tick, tick' (like a countdown clock) before a major story dump he know is coming. He just did it again a few minutes ago.
posted by Jalliah at 2:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
AP Pro-Trump group labels Comey political ‘showboat’ in new ad
You can do that? Just--just buy airtime to insult a dude?
Well they bought airtime just to praise a dude-- they ran ads talking about what a great guy Neil Gorsuch is during his Senate hearing. That's what all this PAC money is doing these days-- it is not just about campaigning it is also about molding public opinion.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
You can do that? Just--just buy airtime to insult a dude?
Well they bought airtime just to praise a dude-- they ran ads talking about what a great guy Neil Gorsuch is during his Senate hearing. That's what all this PAC money is doing these days-- it is not just about campaigning it is also about molding public opinion.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Prior to the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq in 1990 our relationship with Iraq was relatively cordial. That is to say that we seemed to have a mutual agreement that Iran was the larger regional enemy. That somehow (miscommunication? deliberate mis-interpretation?) was taken by Saddam Hussein as a free pass to seize Kuwaiti oil fields south of the Iraqi border - in part as retribution for their drilling techniques that were extracting oil from under Iraqi land.
It's pretty damn hard for me to not worry that what we are seeing in Qatar is that same scenario playing out once again, with a far less competent occupant of the White House than George H.W. Bush to preside over the mess it will create.
posted by meinvt at 2:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's pretty damn hard for me to not worry that what we are seeing in Qatar is that same scenario playing out once again, with a far less competent occupant of the White House than George H.W. Bush to preside over the mess it will create.
posted by meinvt at 2:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
. How many years from now until the oil industry goes the same way
Good luck powering a container ship on wind and solar.
If you don't have diesel, you'll need to make them nuclear.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Good luck powering a container ship on wind and solar.
If you don't have diesel, you'll need to make them nuclear.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
my immediate panic response/disaster spiralling about how this is THE START OF WWIII
Speaking of World War III, was there any fallout from the assassination of Russia's ambassador to Turkey?
posted by kirkaracha at 2:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Good luck powering a container ship on wind and solar.
Also producing most of the world's plastic.
posted by PenDevil at 2:31 PM on June 6, 2017
Also producing most of the world's plastic.
posted by PenDevil at 2:31 PM on June 6, 2017
Well. May just said she's going to rip up human rights laws to fight terrorism so I guess the UK is with the US on that whole fascism bender. Hurrah.
posted by Talez at 2:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Talez at 2:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
Found the Feinstein / Grassley link .
Grassley, Feinstein Bill Combats Candy- and Fruit-Flavored Drugs Marketed to Children
posted by miguelcervantes at 2:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Grassley, Feinstein Bill Combats Candy- and Fruit-Flavored Drugs Marketed to Children
posted by miguelcervantes at 2:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Axios: Trump pitched Republican leaders on a solar-paneled border wall
posted by zachlipton at 2:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
In the meeting at the White House today with Republican Congressional leaders, President Trump spent some time talking up his latest idea for the border wall. According to 3 people with direct knowledge of the meeting, Trump floated the idea that the wall could be covered in solar panels and the electricity generated used to pay for the cost.[Jonathan Swan massively overhyped this with a "stand by for news" thing on Twitter and I thought it was going to be Wittes' ticking and now I'm angry]
Trump said his vision was a wall 40 feet to 50 feet high and covered with solar panels so they'd be "beautiful structures," the people said. The President said that most walls you hear about are 14 feet or 15 feet tall but this would be nothing like those walls. Trump told the lawmakers they could talk about the solar-paneled wall as long as they said it was his idea. One person cautioned that the President wasn't presenting the solar-paneled wall as the definite solution
posted by zachlipton at 2:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
"And Mexico is paying for it because we're using their sunlight." (Fake. Mostly.)
posted by jferg at 2:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by jferg at 2:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
> Grassley, Feinstein Bill Combats Candy- and Fruit-Flavored Drugs Marketed to Children
If only they'd found a way to backronym it as the CANDY KUSH SAGA Act.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
If only they'd found a way to backronym it as the CANDY KUSH SAGA Act.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
If you don't have diesel, you'll need to make them nuclear.
Surely if you have abundant wind and solar power you can use some of it to synthesize chemical fuel? Maybe use it to charge fuel cells?
Also producing most of the world's plastic.
Right now plastic is a by-product of fossil fuels -- nobody is drilling primarily to get the raw materials for plastics. I don't think it would by itself drive anything like the same demand. And there are plant-based plastics that are being developed for more and more applications.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Surely if you have abundant wind and solar power you can use some of it to synthesize chemical fuel? Maybe use it to charge fuel cells?
Also producing most of the world's plastic.
Right now plastic is a by-product of fossil fuels -- nobody is drilling primarily to get the raw materials for plastics. I don't think it would by itself drive anything like the same demand. And there are plant-based plastics that are being developed for more and more applications.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trump pitched Republican leaders on a solar-paneled border wall
If you're trying to convince Republicans to support your wall, adding solar panels isn't the way to do it. That's like trying to convince Democrats to support the wall by making it more racist.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
If you're trying to convince Republicans to support your wall, adding solar panels isn't the way to do it. That's like trying to convince Democrats to support the wall by making it more racist.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
The President said that most walls you hear about are 14 feet or 15 feet tall but this would be nothing like those walls.
This makes it sound like Donald Trump has never actually seen a wall with his own eyes.
posted by dng at 2:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [46 favorites]
This makes it sound like Donald Trump has never actually seen a wall with his own eyes.
posted by dng at 2:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [46 favorites]
Ok, the 50 foot high solar powered wall thing is really getting me. Hoo boy. Best part is because we are on the north side of the wall, we get to look at the backside of all those solar panels!
posted by meinvt at 2:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by meinvt at 2:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Good thing I previewed, I've already had one duplicate post deleted today.
But WTF? Solar panels on the wall? What nonsense is this? Does he think that the climate change-denying Republican Congress will fund a solar paneled wall over one not solar-paneled? Does he think Democrats will get on board the Wall train? I'm guessing that the soalr panels would just make the wall more expensive although maybe the energy it generated would help out the nearby communities?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
But WTF? Solar panels on the wall? What nonsense is this? Does he think that the climate change-denying Republican Congress will fund a solar paneled wall over one not solar-paneled? Does he think Democrats will get on board the Wall train? I'm guessing that the soalr panels would just make the wall more expensive although maybe the energy it generated would help out the nearby communities?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Axios: Trump pitched Republican leaders on a solar-paneled border wall
In the meeting at the White House today with Republican Congressional leaders, President Trump spent some time talking up his latest idea for the border wall. According to 3 people with direct knowledge of the meeting, Trump floated the idea that the wall could be covered in solar panels and the electricity generated used to pay for the cost.
Trump said his vision was a wall 40 feet to 50 feet high and covered with solar panels so they'd be "beautiful structures," the people said. The President said that most walls you hear about are 14 feet or 15 feet tall but this would be nothing like those walls. Trump told the lawmakers they could talk about the solar-paneled wall as long as they said it was his idea. One person cautioned that the President wasn't presenting the solar-paneled wall as the definite solution
[Jonathan Swan massively overhyped this with a "stand by for news" thing on Twitter and I thought it was going to be Wittes' ticking and now I'm angry]
Besides the design issues and the build/running/maintenance trouble vs cost issues:
They would have to build a wall to protect the wall from people that would break the solar panels. Because if Trump ever gets a wall built and part of it is relatively easily breakable then people are gonna break the thing.
posted by Jalliah at 2:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
The President said that most walls you hear about are 14 feet or 15 feet tall
this sentence is destroying my brain
posted by rifflesby at 2:39 PM on June 6, 2017 [85 favorites]
this sentence is destroying my brain
posted by rifflesby at 2:39 PM on June 6, 2017 [85 favorites]
Trump said his vision was a wall 40 feet to 50 feet high and covered with solar panels so they'd be "beautiful structures," the people said. The President said that most walls you hear about are 14 feet or 15 feet tall but this would be nothing like those walls. Trump told the lawmakers they could talk about the solar-paneled wall as long as they said it was his idea. One person cautioned that the President wasn't presenting the solar-paneled wall as the definite solution
Let me get this straight. You're facing the solar panels, forming a symbol of hate, towards the people, outside your jurisdiction, who hate you because you call them rapists, drug dealers, criminals, murderers and you're facing glass solar panels towards them.
Are you fucking daft you pumpkin head? They're going to get their fucking drug catapults and use the panels as target practice for when they fling the drugs over. You daft fucking twat.
posted by Talez at 2:39 PM on June 6, 2017 [49 favorites]
Let me get this straight. You're facing the solar panels, forming a symbol of hate, towards the people, outside your jurisdiction, who hate you because you call them rapists, drug dealers, criminals, murderers and you're facing glass solar panels towards them.
Are you fucking daft you pumpkin head? They're going to get their fucking drug catapults and use the panels as target practice for when they fling the drugs over. You daft fucking twat.
posted by Talez at 2:39 PM on June 6, 2017 [49 favorites]
If the world watches the US sit by while one of its allies invades another, that's not gonna be a good development for anything
I imagine Korea, the Baltics, Taiwan, Japan, etc. are looking hard at this. Of course, at the moment it looks like we have a President who wants to abandon Qatar and a military that is considerably less sanguine about the idea. So that should be interesting.
He says "tick, tick," on Twitter.
I wish he said "Spoon!"
posted by octobersurprise at 2:39 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
I imagine Korea, the Baltics, Taiwan, Japan, etc. are looking hard at this. Of course, at the moment it looks like we have a President who wants to abandon Qatar and a military that is considerably less sanguine about the idea. So that should be interesting.
He says "tick, tick," on Twitter.
I wish he said "Spoon!"
posted by octobersurprise at 2:39 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
That somehow (miscommunication? deliberate mis-interpretation?) was taken by Saddam Hussein as a free pass to seize Kuwaiti oil fields south of the Iraqi border
July 25, 1990: Meeting between Saddam Hussein and US Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie
U.S. Ambassador Glaspie: ...We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship – not confrontation – regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait’s borders?August 2, 1990: Invasion of Kuwait
...
Saddam Hussein: If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab – our strategic goal in our war with Iran – we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam s view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States’ opinion on this?
U.S. Ambassador Glaspie: We have no opinion on your Arab – Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.
in part as retribution for their drilling techniques that were extracting oil from under Iraqi land.
So Kuwait was drinking Iraq's milkshake?
Maybe they used Burns Slant-Drilling Co.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:41 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
But WTF? Solar panels on the wall? What nonsense is this? Does he think that the climate change-denying Republican Congress will fund a solar paneled wall over one not solar-paneled?
No, he doesn't think that. He doesn't think about anything, except maybe when his next golf game is.
posted by Melismata at 2:41 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
No, he doesn't think that. He doesn't think about anything, except maybe when his next golf game is.
posted by Melismata at 2:41 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
If the world watches the US sit by while one of its allies invades another, that's not gonna be a good development for anything. And it's definitely going to go down in history as a pivotal moment for whatever happens after that. The ramifications are going to be far beyond regional.
That's because you're missing the world's Mandate of Heaven DLC. Tributaries are allowed to war with each other as much as they want.
posted by Talez at 2:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's because you're missing the world's Mandate of Heaven DLC. Tributaries are allowed to war with each other as much as they want.
posted by Talez at 2:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
But WTF? Solar panels on the wall?
See? Ivanka is a moderating influence.
posted by peeedro at 2:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [31 favorites]
See? Ivanka is a moderating influence.
posted by peeedro at 2:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [31 favorites]
Wouldn't they just attack us with paintballs?
posted by blnkfrnk at 2:44 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by blnkfrnk at 2:44 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
You know what's the worst thing about the Republicans lacking any sort of spine? In the old days you know there would have been a Texas republican with his bolo tie and his 10 gallon hat and he'd look at Trump after that idea and say "Son, are you an idiot?"
posted by Talez at 2:46 PM on June 6, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by Talez at 2:46 PM on June 6, 2017 [72 favorites]
If the US trades sides with Mexico so the panels are facing the US on the south side of the wall then it's not a completely stupid idea. *shrug*
posted by Jalliah at 2:46 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
A solar powered wall? Great, then they will all just come over ON A CLOUDY DAY!!!!
posted by ian1977 at 2:48 PM on June 6, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 2:48 PM on June 6, 2017 [41 favorites]
What a maroon, the obvious answer is to build the wall out of COAL!
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:52 PM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:52 PM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
So this is apparently the designers rendering of the idea for a solar wall per AP.
Looks solid doesn't it? No one could ever bust that thing.
posted by Jalliah at 2:52 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Looks solid doesn't it? No one could ever bust that thing.
posted by Jalliah at 2:52 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh hey this guy called Obama is speaking right now if you need a pick-me-up ...
posted by maudlin at 2:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 2:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
The President said that most walls you hear about are 14 feet or 15 feet tall but this would be nothing like those walls.
This line is giving me the giggles.
Most walls you hear about are vertical, but this wall will be nothing like that.
Most walls you hear about are made out of solid materials but this wall will be different.
Most walls you hear about are useful but this wall will be special.
Most walls you hear about cost money to build but this one will be paid for by liberal tears.
Most walls you hear about are not insane projects developed by doddering old fools but this wall....hoo boy!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [45 favorites]
This line is giving me the giggles.
Most walls you hear about are vertical, but this wall will be nothing like that.
Most walls you hear about are made out of solid materials but this wall will be different.
Most walls you hear about are useful but this wall will be special.
Most walls you hear about cost money to build but this one will be paid for by liberal tears.
Most walls you hear about are not insane projects developed by doddering old fools but this wall....hoo boy!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [45 favorites]
So this is apparently the designers rendering of the idea for a solar wall per AP.
Apparently all his designers can afford is Google Sketchup.
posted by jferg at 2:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Apparently all his designers can afford is Google Sketchup.
posted by jferg at 2:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
He is an 8-year-old kid drawing up the plans for his ultimate tree fort.
posted by contraption at 2:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by contraption at 2:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
But WTF? Solar panels on the wall? What nonsense is this? Does he think that the climate change-denying Republican Congress will fund a solar paneled wall over one not solar-paneled? Does he think Democrats will get on board the Wall train?
"Mandatory basic income and social services for all illegal immigrants, AND I'm kicking them all out of the country. See, everyone's happy" (fake)
posted by bongo_x at 2:57 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Mandatory basic income and social services for all illegal immigrants, AND I'm kicking them all out of the country. See, everyone's happy" (fake)
posted by bongo_x at 2:57 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
The solar panels will require a ton of distribution infrastructure built into the wall in order to get some fraction of the energy they produce over to where anybody can use it, but on the plus side there will be a ready source of power for the coyotes to plug in their mobile plasma cutters.
posted by contraption at 2:58 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by contraption at 2:58 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
He is an 8-year-old kid drawing up the plans for his ultimate tree fort.
not pictured: corrugated steel signs every 15 feet with the legend "NO GURL5 ALOWD"
posted by murphy slaw at 2:58 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
not pictured: corrugated steel signs every 15 feet with the legend "NO GURL5 ALOWD"
posted by murphy slaw at 2:58 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
Oh hey this guy called Obama is speaking right now if you need a pick-me-up ...
I can barely watch this because it's like stepping back into this way saner world and I know I have to come back to this one.
posted by Jalliah at 3:00 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
I can barely watch this because it's like stepping back into this way saner world and I know I have to come back to this one.
posted by Jalliah at 3:00 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
NYTimes: Trump Takes Credit for Saudi Move Against Qatar, a U.S. Military Partner
This is ... not good.
posted by eclectist at 3:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [31 favorites]
This is ... not good.
posted by eclectist at 3:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [31 favorites]
Woah. CNN breaking: Russia planted a fake news report that caused mideast countries to cut ties with Qatar.
posted by zachlipton at 3:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 3:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [48 favorites]
"Mandatory basic income and social services for all illegal immigrants, AND I'm kicking them all out of the country. See, everyone's happy" (fake)
"ABORTIONS FOR SOME! MINIATURE FLAGS FOR OTHERS!"
posted by Talez at 3:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
"ABORTIONS FOR SOME! MINIATURE FLAGS FOR OTHERS!"
posted by Talez at 3:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Solar panels on the wall?
I doubt he realizes that in the northern hemisphere the panels have to be on the south side of the wall.
posted by JackFlash at 3:05 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I doubt he realizes that in the northern hemisphere the panels have to be on the south side of the wall.
posted by JackFlash at 3:05 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
That CNN Qatar-hacking story: "US Suspects Russian Hackers Planted Fake News Behind Qatar Crisis"
US investigators believe Russian hackers breached Qatar's state news agency and planted a fake news report that contributed to a crisis among the US' closest Gulf allies, according to US officials briefed on the investigation.posted by maudlin at 3:05 PM on June 6, 2017 [61 favorites]
The FBI recently sent a team of investigators to Doha to help the Qatari government investigate the alleged hacking incident, Qatari and US government officials say.
Intelligence gathered by the US security agencies indicates that Russian hackers were behind the intrusion first reported by the Qatari government two weeks ago, US officials say. Qatar hosts one of the largest US military bases in the region.
Good luck powering a container ship on wind and solar.
Top 7 Green Ship Concepts Using Wind Energy
Designers Set Sail, Turning to Wind to Help Power Cargo Ships
Spinning sail technology is poised to bring back wind-powered ships
Look, I'm not a wide-eyed optimist, but either you believe we will always be able to economically use fossil fuels to power ships, or not. And in the latter case, it's simply common sense to look at alternatives.
posted by happyroach at 3:05 PM on June 6, 2017 [40 favorites]
Top 7 Green Ship Concepts Using Wind Energy
Designers Set Sail, Turning to Wind to Help Power Cargo Ships
Spinning sail technology is poised to bring back wind-powered ships
Look, I'm not a wide-eyed optimist, but either you believe we will always be able to economically use fossil fuels to power ships, or not. And in the latter case, it's simply common sense to look at alternatives.
posted by happyroach at 3:05 PM on June 6, 2017 [40 favorites]
Heh. So even if the wall was built, the panels didn't get damaged by rightly pissed off people south of the border, and the solar panels were paying for the wall, then he gets to go to his "bring back coal" voters and explain why he just eliminated the need for a lot of coal-generated power.
posted by azpenguin at 3:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 3:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
> NYTimes: Trump Takes Credit for Saudi Move Against Qatar, a U.S. Military Partner
> Russia planted a fake news report that caused mideast countries to cut ties with Qatar.
Damnit, something must be broken on my roulette wheel, because it just keeps coming up Russia and Trump, Russia and Trump.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [43 favorites]
> Russia planted a fake news report that caused mideast countries to cut ties with Qatar.
Damnit, something must be broken on my roulette wheel, because it just keeps coming up Russia and Trump, Russia and Trump.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [43 favorites]
I'm listening to the live stream of Obama speaking in Montreal. Man, what a difference.
posted by fimbulvetr at 3:08 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 3:08 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
"US Suspects Russian Hackers Planted Fake News Behind Qatar Crisis"
So the question is not "Did Trump assist Russian Intelligence Operations" but "Is Trump Still Supporting Russian Intelligence Operations, Today, on Twitter, on the Shitter"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
So the question is not "Did Trump assist Russian Intelligence Operations" but "Is Trump Still Supporting Russian Intelligence Operations, Today, on Twitter, on the Shitter"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
"Mr. Trump had a cow. He flipped. He was like, 'We're donating all of this stuff, and there's no paper trail? No credit?' And he went nuts. He said, 'I don't care if it's my son or not--everybody gets billed.' "
This makes perfect sense. Normally a rich person like Trump would donate the use of his facilities and then take a deduction for the donation on his income taxes. Except Trump doesn't pay taxes. So the donation deduction is worthless to him. Trump doesn't do anything unless he gets something out of it.
posted by JackFlash at 3:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
This makes perfect sense. Normally a rich person like Trump would donate the use of his facilities and then take a deduction for the donation on his income taxes. Except Trump doesn't pay taxes. So the donation deduction is worthless to him. Trump doesn't do anything unless he gets something out of it.
posted by JackFlash at 3:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm listening to the live stream of Obama speaking in Montreal. Man, what a difference.
It's like a hit after going cold turkey for eight months.
posted by Talez at 3:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's like a hit after going cold turkey for eight months.
posted by Talez at 3:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's a shame FPPs can't have soundtracks because reading this one just screams yakkity sax.
Oh, I think you want this thread...
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:11 PM on June 6, 2017
Oh, I think you want this thread...
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:11 PM on June 6, 2017
MSNBC is about to air what they are calling an impromptu intelligence press conference. I guess in relation to the Qatar story on CNN?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
MSNBC is about to air what they are calling an impromptu intelligence press conference. I guess in relation to the Qatar story on CNN?
Obama is on the air and getting good ratings!
posted by Talez at 3:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Obama is on the air and getting good ratings!
posted by Talez at 3:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's like a hit after going cold turkey for eight months.
Or like... hearing your attractive, successful ex when you've since been with someone abusive, and being reminded that there's still no way you can get back together again, ever.
... To summarize, I can't bring myself to listen to his speeches these days for the most part.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:15 PM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
Or like... hearing your attractive, successful ex when you've since been with someone abusive, and being reminded that there's still no way you can get back together again, ever.
... To summarize, I can't bring myself to listen to his speeches these days for the most part.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:15 PM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
The news reports that these moves against Qatar are a result of Russian-planted fake news is... I didn't think I could be struck speechless anymore.
posted by Justinian at 3:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
From the Montanans Making Richard Spencer's Life Difficult Department: here's a caption from a local Instagram.
"This man may or may not have gotten right up in Richard Spencer's face last night in the airport and told him he's not welcome in Whitefish, among other things. I may or may not have told him he's the smelly pee kid who needs to work through his issues. We definitely resisted normalizing by actually showing resistance. At one point, Spencer actually asked my husband how much he could bench press, right after saying our soldiers weren't worthy, which my Lieutenant Colonel husband did not stand for. Spencer had to be escorted out by security after calling a local man a 'moron', and telling [name] he is 'basic middle class'. He's in Whitefish right now. Do not make him feel welcome. ps, Spencer has really bad breath."
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [50 favorites]
"This man may or may not have gotten right up in Richard Spencer's face last night in the airport and told him he's not welcome in Whitefish, among other things. I may or may not have told him he's the smelly pee kid who needs to work through his issues. We definitely resisted normalizing by actually showing resistance. At one point, Spencer actually asked my husband how much he could bench press, right after saying our soldiers weren't worthy, which my Lieutenant Colonel husband did not stand for. Spencer had to be escorted out by security after calling a local man a 'moron', and telling [name] he is 'basic middle class'. He's in Whitefish right now. Do not make him feel welcome. ps, Spencer has really bad breath."
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [50 favorites]
The House Intelligence leaders are briefing on Russia, but it sounds like they just wanted to get in front of the cameras and say "we are doing something."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah this conference is a "LOOK AT ME! IM DOING IMPORTANT BUSINESS!" thing. I love you Schiffy but this is pointless.
posted by Justinian at 3:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 3:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Apparently Trump challenged Sadiq Khan to an IQ test. Can we get this internationally televised ASAP?
I would happily pay to watch Trump get humiliated in a face-off between those two.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [23 favorites]
I would happily pay to watch Trump get humiliated in a face-off between those two.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [23 favorites]
I am pretty sure the correct response to being asked how much you can bench by Richard Spencer is a quick jab followed by a haymaker.
posted by contraption at 3:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by contraption at 3:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
Washington Post, by Valerie Strauss: On Betsy Devos' testimony before Senate committee.
Basically, she refuses to commit to LGBTQ or religious protections in private schools or to promise protections for public funds being actually used for education rather than making rich people richer.
posted by cui bono at 3:22 PM on June 6, 2017 [17 favorites]
Basically, she refuses to commit to LGBTQ or religious protections in private schools or to promise protections for public funds being actually used for education rather than making rich people richer.
posted by cui bono at 3:22 PM on June 6, 2017 [17 favorites]
I imagine Sadiq Khan will also decline to wrestle the pig in the mud.
posted by yhbc at 3:22 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 3:22 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
See, because he's smart.
posted by yhbc at 3:23 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 3:23 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Here's what I can't wrap my head around with Qatar—we have two emerging narratives:
-Russia hacked the state broadcaster (and Otaiba’s emails to I guess? Somebody hacked them anyway) to drive a riff between Qatar and the Gulf states. Trump takes the Saudi side as his staff softly backpedals, thus playing into Russia's hand.
-Qatar paid a billion dollars to an al-Qaeda affiliate and Iran (link is to Google to bypass paywall, click the first hit) to get their kidnapped royals back.
So which is it? The latter explanation seems more likely, though I'm not sure I've seen anyone else confirm FT's reporting there. Or is it supposed to be a "it's a little of both" situation?
posted by zachlipton at 3:23 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
-Russia hacked the state broadcaster (and Otaiba’s emails to I guess? Somebody hacked them anyway) to drive a riff between Qatar and the Gulf states. Trump takes the Saudi side as his staff softly backpedals, thus playing into Russia's hand.
-Qatar paid a billion dollars to an al-Qaeda affiliate and Iran (link is to Google to bypass paywall, click the first hit) to get their kidnapped royals back.
So which is it? The latter explanation seems more likely, though I'm not sure I've seen anyone else confirm FT's reporting there. Or is it supposed to be a "it's a little of both" situation?
posted by zachlipton at 3:23 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh my god, Trump taking an IQ test would be enormous. I would do anything to make that happen.
What number comes next in this sequence? 4, 16, 64, ___
I've got the best numbers. Let me tell you. People have been calling me, these numbers, they're just great. All of the numbers voted for me, you can see in this Electoral College map, because I'm very good at college. We're going to make the thing in the sequence, it's definitely, it's 37, it's fabulous.
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
What number comes next in this sequence? 4, 16, 64, ___
I've got the best numbers. Let me tell you. People have been calling me, these numbers, they're just great. All of the numbers voted for me, you can see in this Electoral College map, because I'm very good at college. We're going to make the thing in the sequence, it's definitely, it's 37, it's fabulous.
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
While Trump’s floor of support has thus far stayed surprisingly high, the percentage of Americans who “strongly” approve of the president has continued to slip — from 30 percent earlier in the spring to about 20 percent now.
That's dipping significantly below the Crazification Factor. I'm guessing that'd be the fringe who are disappointed that Trump's bogged down in institutional procedures rather than ruling by decree from atop a throne of skulls or something.
posted by acb at 3:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's dipping significantly below the Crazification Factor. I'm guessing that'd be the fringe who are disappointed that Trump's bogged down in institutional procedures rather than ruling by decree from atop a throne of skulls or something.
posted by acb at 3:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
zachlipton: my impression is that the former story (true) led to the latter story (false)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
I imagine Sadiq Khan will also decline to wrestle the pig in the mud.
This happened last year, and yea, he pretty much did. Khan accused Trump of being ignorant. That's when Trump challenged him to the IQ test. Khan responded: Ignorance is not the same thing as intelligence.
posted by zabuni at 3:26 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
This happened last year, and yea, he pretty much did. Khan accused Trump of being ignorant. That's when Trump challenged him to the IQ test. Khan responded: Ignorance is not the same thing as intelligence.
posted by zabuni at 3:26 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Why it's almost like Trump and Putin are working hand in hand.
posted by diogenes at 3:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 3:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm beginning to think this Trump character is not as wise as he's cracked up to be.
posted by stonepharisee at 3:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 3:29 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Four top law firms turned down Trump: report.
posted by Justinian at 3:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [45 favorites]
“The concerns were, ‘The guy won’t pay and he won’t listen,’"That's quite a money quote.
posted by Justinian at 3:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [45 favorites]
Good luck powering a container ship on wind and solar.
The shipping industry from circa 3000 BCE - 1900 CE would like a word with you.
posted by biogeo at 3:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [45 favorites]
The shipping industry from circa 3000 BCE - 1900 CE would like a word with you.
posted by biogeo at 3:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [45 favorites]
Sessions might resign because trump is angry he recused himself?
posted by Brainy at 3:34 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Brainy at 3:34 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Nothing that good would ever happen.
posted by Artw at 3:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 3:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 3:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
zachlipton, the Qatari royal family hostage ransom was covered by the Guardian in April 2017. It got very complicated but the ransom part was:
The fates of 26 members of a Qatari royal hunting party held hostage for more than a year in Iraq... Qatari jet sits on tarmac in Baghdad as royal hostages await release
The fates of 26 members of a Qatari royal hunting party held hostage for more than a year in Iraq... Qatari jet sits on tarmac in Baghdad as royal hostages await release
Qatari officials arrived in the Iraqi capital on Saturday with large bags they refused to allow to be searched. Senior Iraqi officials said they believed the bags to be carrying millions of dollars in ransom money, to be paid to the Iraqi militia holding the royals, Keta’eb Hezbollah, and two Syrian groups who had agreed to secure the Shia leg of the swap, the al-Qaida inspired Hayat Tahrir al-Sham and the Islamist group Ahrar al-Sham...posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
...The Syrian regime has played no role in the negotiations, and the Baghdad authorities have repeatedly said they did not known who was holding the Qataris. As their release has neared, it has shown no interest in confronting the hostage takers.
Sessions might resign because trump is angry he recused himself?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 3:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Asked by ABC News if the attorney general had threatened or offered to resign, Justice Department spokesperson Sarah Isgur Flores declined to comment./r/savedyouaclick 'ed TFY
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 3:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
No, Sessions might resign because he looked around himself and realized that it was, indeed, a dumpster, in which he was standing, that was on fire.
posted by eclectist at 3:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by eclectist at 3:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
The Gang That Couldn't Loot Straight.
posted by acb at 3:39 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by acb at 3:39 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
If that rat jumps ship, then the ship is clearly about to fucking blow.
posted by yasaman at 3:40 PM on June 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 3:40 PM on June 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
Note that Sessions has no problem standing in dumpsters or even standing in support of dumpsters, but he's disliked them since he discovered they occasionally catch fire.
posted by mosk at 3:40 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by mosk at 3:40 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
Chuck Johnson put it more bluntly. "Breitbart is over," he wrote, before returning to shitting on the floor.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:41 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:41 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
So does this mean Jared will take over?
posted by contraption at 3:41 PM on June 6, 2017
posted by contraption at 3:41 PM on June 6, 2017
If that rat jumps ship, then the ship is clearly about to fucking blow.
Though what happens next? Do sensible adults take over and start the slow, painstaking process of rebuilding? Or is there a short period of chaos and upheaval culminating with the most ruthless and wel-disciplined faction seizing power (as happened during the Russian and Iranian revolutions)?
posted by acb at 3:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Though what happens next? Do sensible adults take over and start the slow, painstaking process of rebuilding? Or is there a short period of chaos and upheaval culminating with the most ruthless and wel-disciplined faction seizing power (as happened during the Russian and Iranian revolutions)?
posted by acb at 3:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Though what happens next? Do sensible adults take over and start the slow, painstaking process of rebuilding? Or is there a short period of chaos and upheaval culminating with the most ruthless and wel-disciplined faction seizing power (as happened during the Russian and Iranian revolutions)?
Well if we get Pence we go back to the normal domestic agenda of stopping The Handmaid's Tale from becoming a reality.
posted by Talez at 3:45 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well if we get Pence we go back to the normal domestic agenda of stopping The Handmaid's Tale from becoming a reality.
posted by Talez at 3:45 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
culminating with the most ruthless and well-disciplined faction seizing power?
error: returned null value in func(WashingtonDC); halting
posted by eclectist at 3:46 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
error: returned null value in func(WashingtonDC); halting
posted by eclectist at 3:46 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
So does this mean Jared will take over?
That all depends on whether Trump gets that the Attorney General has to be an actual, you know, attorney and also on whether he gives a shit.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:47 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
That all depends on whether Trump gets that the Attorney General has to be an actual, you know, attorney and also on whether he gives a shit.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:47 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
FIRST ON CNN is the top ranking for sure
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:51 PM on June 6, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:51 PM on June 6, 2017
Sessions is one of the people MOST responsible for President Donald J Trump. He's been there since the beginning. Until he actually resigns or gets fired this is all drama created to distract us. If Trump has a superpower it's distraction, never forget.
posted by Glibpaxman at 3:53 PM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 3:53 PM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
Pence is up to his neck in the Russian shit, hard to see anything taking down Trump that doesn't take him down too.
It's the "too big to fail" regime.
posted by Artw at 3:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's the "too big to fail" regime.
posted by Artw at 3:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
June 6, 2017 - *Readout of President Donald J. Trumps Call with King Salman Bin Abdulaziz Al Saud of Saudi Arabia*
President Donald J. Trump spoke today with the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud of Saudi Arabia. The two leaders discussed the critical goals of preventing the financing of terrorist organizations and eliminating the promotion of extremism by any nation in the region. The President underscored that a united Gulf Cooperation Council is critical to defeating terrorism and promoting regional stability.
I wonder if the topic of Qatar came up?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am in class so just read the Qatar Russia news on my phone. I was struck breathless as the significance of this and Trump's tweets this am set in. So much that I am now out of class walking it off and getting hold of myself.
Words can't express how epic this just got.
posted by Jalliah at 4:01 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Words can't express how epic this just got.
posted by Jalliah at 4:01 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
And yet nothing will happen.
posted by Artw at 4:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
We don't know that. Sometimes, stuff happens.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Woah. CNN breaking: Russia planted a fake news report that caused mideast countries to cut ties with Qatar.
So let's get this straight. On his international jaunt, Trump refused to affirm Article V of NATO and he seems to have given the go-ahead to an encirclement of Qatar that Russia perceives as in its self-interest.
So Trump is basically doing Russia's bidding in foreign affairs?
posted by dis_integration at 4:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [62 favorites]
So let's get this straight. On his international jaunt, Trump refused to affirm Article V of NATO and he seems to have given the go-ahead to an encirclement of Qatar that Russia perceives as in its self-interest.
So Trump is basically doing Russia's bidding in foreign affairs?
posted by dis_integration at 4:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [62 favorites]
"US Suspects Russian Hackers Planted Fake News Behind Qatar Crisis"
*checks off the "Retweets Russian propaganda" square on bingo card*
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
*checks off the "Retweets Russian propaganda" square on bingo card*
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
The Trump Doctrine: foreign policy decisions are based on which choice would best benefit Russian oligarchs.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Arming foreign fighters ... apparently it costs 500 million dollars to field a force of 4 or 5. (CSPAN video, 1min20sec, of Gen. Austin testifying to that fact a couple years ago).
posted by phoque at 4:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by phoque at 4:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Jim Sciutto on Twitter: Breaking: Comey to testify he never told Trump he was not under FBI investigation @GloriaBorger reports
posted by maudlin at 4:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 4:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Qatar is home to the forward headquarters of the United States Central Command. It is a major intelligence hub for the United States in the Middle East and the base where the United States plans and carries out airstrikes on the Islamic State.From the NYTimes link posted above
So I knew we had 11,000 troops there but I did not realize it was the major intelligence hub in the Middle East. If Trump backed a Saudi war against Qatar on the orders of Putin, he should be tried for treason. He is the President and as such he gets to set Foreign Policy but my god...there are limits. He is willfully destroying the US's position in the Middle East and around the World and in NATO.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [88 favorites]
So I knew we had 11,000 troops there but I did not realize it was the major intelligence hub in the Middle East. If Trump backed a Saudi war against Qatar on the orders of Putin, he should be tried for treason. He is the President and as such he gets to set Foreign Policy but my god...there are limits. He is willfully destroying the US's position in the Middle East and around the World and in NATO.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [88 favorites]
So we're carrying water for the Russians, but somehow the Paris Climate Agreement is a threat to our sovereignty? Man, I just don't get Republicans.
posted by eclectist at 4:14 PM on June 6, 2017 [82 favorites]
posted by eclectist at 4:14 PM on June 6, 2017 [82 favorites]
And now for something lighter
Daily Mail 'I'm not a woman, so I don't have bad days': Russian president Vladimir Putin says he never struggles because he is a man and does not have 'certain natural cycles'
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
Daily Mail 'I'm not a woman, so I don't have bad days': Russian president Vladimir Putin says he never struggles because he is a man and does not have 'certain natural cycles'
Putin made the comment to Oliver Stone during the upcoming Showtime filmHeh. I wonder what Megyn Kelly would have said if he told her that during her interview? Would she have let it pass?
'I am not trying to insult anyone. That's just the nature of things,' Putin told Stone
During the interview, Putin also joked when asked if he'd shower with a gay man
'I prefer not to... Why provoke him? But you know, I'm a judo master,' Putin said
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
Spitbull's request for citing sources: #7054333
My comment: #7054323
Yakety Sax: Written by James Q. "Spider" Rich and Boots Randolph.
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:17 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
My comment: #7054323
Yakety Sax: Written by James Q. "Spider" Rich and Boots Randolph.
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:17 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Based on a correction from the future (?) it appears a certain Alan Dershowitz was upset about his quote in the Sessions article in the NYT...
Correction: June 7, 2017
An article on Tuesday about President Trump’s growing discontent with Attorney General Jeff Sessions summarized incorrectly comments that Alan M. Dershowitz made during the 2016 election. Mr. Dershowitz, a professor emeritus at Harvard Law School, regularly defended the civil liberties of Donald J. Trump and Hillary Clinton. He did not regularly defend Mr. Trump.
posted by AwkwardPause at 4:20 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Correction: June 7, 2017
An article on Tuesday about President Trump’s growing discontent with Attorney General Jeff Sessions summarized incorrectly comments that Alan M. Dershowitz made during the 2016 election. Mr. Dershowitz, a professor emeritus at Harvard Law School, regularly defended the civil liberties of Donald J. Trump and Hillary Clinton. He did not regularly defend Mr. Trump.
posted by AwkwardPause at 4:20 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Jim Sciutto on Twitter: Breaking: Comey to testify he never told Trump he was not under FBI investigation @GloriaBorger reports
When political Twitter needs spoiler alerts.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
When political Twitter needs spoiler alerts.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
So Trump is basically doing Russia's bidding in foreign affairs?
That would be a resounding yes.
posted by diogenes at 4:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
That would be a resounding yes.
posted by diogenes at 4:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
It amuses me that Benjamin Wittes keeps publicly challenging Putin to a literal fight.
posted by diogenes at 4:23 PM on June 6, 2017
posted by diogenes at 4:23 PM on June 6, 2017
Max Fisher:
1/ A few quick thoughts on President Trump seeming to abandon the US-Qatar alliance over twitter, which is absolutely unprecedented
It is true that Qatar is a problematic ally, and there are non-ridiculous cases for abandoning it. What’s troubling is why & how it was done
Trump's tweets pretty strongly imply that he is supporting the blockade bc Saudi Arabia, Qatar’s chief rival, convinced him to.
So now US allies have the same problem that WH officials have: fear that their rivals will trash them to Trump, leading to their ouster.
Apparent ease with which Trump dropped Qatar, with no show of trying to solve problems with them directly, sends a scary message to allies
What’s especially troubling is the US base in Qatar, and not just because it now complicates US strategy in the region...
…Qatar’s biggest aim in accepting the base was to get US guarantee against Saudi Arabia. Their US insurance plan turned out to be worthless.
How many allies have to now ask: Is our US insurance plan also worthless? Can another ally get Trump to abandon us overnight?
The USA is still the biggest game in town, so it’s not like allies will all flee tmr. But Qatar incident gives strong incentive to hedge.
That hedging will be quiet, so it’s not going to immediately obvious. But, after today, what choice do allies have?
Here's our explainer on the Qatar/Gulf crisis, which I think helps to shed light on why Trump's tweets today matter
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [93 favorites]
1/ A few quick thoughts on President Trump seeming to abandon the US-Qatar alliance over twitter, which is absolutely unprecedented
It is true that Qatar is a problematic ally, and there are non-ridiculous cases for abandoning it. What’s troubling is why & how it was done
Trump's tweets pretty strongly imply that he is supporting the blockade bc Saudi Arabia, Qatar’s chief rival, convinced him to.
So now US allies have the same problem that WH officials have: fear that their rivals will trash them to Trump, leading to their ouster.
Apparent ease with which Trump dropped Qatar, with no show of trying to solve problems with them directly, sends a scary message to allies
What’s especially troubling is the US base in Qatar, and not just because it now complicates US strategy in the region...
…Qatar’s biggest aim in accepting the base was to get US guarantee against Saudi Arabia. Their US insurance plan turned out to be worthless.
How many allies have to now ask: Is our US insurance plan also worthless? Can another ally get Trump to abandon us overnight?
The USA is still the biggest game in town, so it’s not like allies will all flee tmr. But Qatar incident gives strong incentive to hedge.
That hedging will be quiet, so it’s not going to immediately obvious. But, after today, what choice do allies have?
Here's our explainer on the Qatar/Gulf crisis, which I think helps to shed light on why Trump's tweets today matter
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [93 favorites]
And that Max Fisher thread doesn't even account for the fact that it was all started by a Russian psyops campaign.
posted by diogenes at 4:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 4:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Quatar tweets just highlight what a bunch of morons these guys are. What absolute fucking morons.
Trump has no idea what he's saying or doing, just that he felt like taking credit for something and now boom! chaos. The Repulicans in power ought to be rending their clothes on the fucking street right now. I hope they are panicking, somewhere in their shriveled little guts.
posted by lydhre at 4:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
Trump has no idea what he's saying or doing, just that he felt like taking credit for something and now boom! chaos. The Repulicans in power ought to be rending their clothes on the fucking street right now. I hope they are panicking, somewhere in their shriveled little guts.
posted by lydhre at 4:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
There was the Yousef Al-Otaiba email hack, too. That was from "GlobalLeaks".
This rift was already happening, though. Saudis and co. wouldn't make the move unless they wanted to. To what extent were the hacks the catalyst? To what extent were they coordinated, and between which parties? Was there already a plan?
This is weird.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:28 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
This rift was already happening, though. Saudis and co. wouldn't make the move unless they wanted to. To what extent were the hacks the catalyst? To what extent were they coordinated, and between which parties? Was there already a plan?
This is weird.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:28 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Heh. I wonder what Megyn Kelly would have said if he told her that during her interview? Would she have let it pass?
He's a Republican, of course she'd let it pass. That's her entire job.
posted by Artw at 4:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
He's a Republican, of course she'd let it pass. That's her entire job.
posted by Artw at 4:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
I am really really really uncomfortable with the idea of Russia seemingly playing the president of the country with the most powerful military in the world this way.
posted by Jalliah at 4:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by Jalliah at 4:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
Which is why I said, and believe more fervently every day, that the Dems number one priority should be pushing for removal of Trump. It's not based on what-if calculations of what would follow, or looking at how best to plot political advantage, it's an existential need for avoiding international chaos.
posted by Devonian at 4:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 4:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [58 favorites]
“The concerns were, ‘The guy won’t pay and he won’t listen,’"
Hmm... How are Morgan, Lewis & Bockius getting paid, then?
posted by 1970s Antihero at 4:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hmm... How are Morgan, Lewis & Bockius getting paid, then?
posted by 1970s Antihero at 4:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Russians?
posted by leotrotsky at 4:34 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 4:34 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Four top law firms turned down Trump: report.
“The concerns were, ‘The guy won’t pay and he won’t listen,’"
The guy who did take the case, Marc Kasowitz, has represented Trump in the past, not always successfully. LA Times
The law firm helped Trump restructure debt when his casinos entered bankruptcies. Kasowitz sued successfully to keep records sealed from Trump’s divorce from first wife, Ivana; he was less successful suing an author who questioned Trump’s net worth. His firm also represented Trump in fraud claims brought against Trump University by the New York state attorney general.We all know how the Trump University lawsuit turned out.
The president’s private counsel cannot be paid with government funds. In the past, presidents have raised money through legal defense funds, or under some circumstances have used campaign funds. In this case, Eisen said, it is expected that Trump will pay personally.Oh my sweet, summer child.
“Given that you have a person of great wealth who has a pre-existing relation with this attorney, it is probably most expeditious for Trump to pay himself,’’ said Eisen.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [17 favorites]
And note that we're asked to accept anonymous sources leaking to CNN about the attribution of a just-unfolding investigation into a foreign hack. I'll take their word over any Trumpian, but we could also be covering for another ally. It's not like anyone's going to get any more angry at Russia. Maybe it doesn't really matter -- as someone pointed out, in the end it didn't matter who shot Franz.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
I am really really really uncomfortable with the idea of Russia seemingly playing the president of the country with the most powerful military in the world this way.
I'm just hoping that it isn't more coordinated than playing him.
posted by diogenes at 4:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm just hoping that it isn't more coordinated than playing him.
posted by diogenes at 4:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
as someone pointed out, in the end it didn't matter who shot Franz.
Oh come on it's nothing like WWI. You'd need a major power to write some form of blank check in regards to supporting the aggressors...
Fuck.
posted by Talez at 4:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh come on it's nothing like WWI. You'd need a major power to write some form of blank check in regards to supporting the aggressors...
Fuck.
posted by Talez at 4:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
According to Kremlin events calendar, Putin called the Emir of Qatar today.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:45 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Russian-Qatari cooperation, primarily in the trade, economic and investment areas, was discussed, and the results of the meeting of the bilateral Intergovernmental Commission in April 2017 were highly praised.I don't know what this means.
International issues were also discussed. Vladimir Putin reaffirmed Russia’s principled position in favour of settling crises by political and diplomatic means, through dialogue.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:45 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Outside of Trump destroying the world order, which in all fairness is what his supporters wanted him to do, nothing has happened yet and it's June.
No one's been charged, no powers have been curtailed, no one's gone to jail, and shit-for-brains is still twitting from the golden throne like day 1.
Prognostication, analysis, divination, litotes, and satire all good okay but ffs somebody (in the federal government, legally) DO something already.
It's the "too big to fail" regime.
I'm pretty sure the framers had a thing for that.
posted by petebest at 4:45 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
No one's been charged, no powers have been curtailed, no one's gone to jail, and shit-for-brains is still twitting from the golden throne like day 1.
Prognostication, analysis, divination, litotes, and satire all good okay but ffs somebody (in the federal government, legally) DO something already.
It's the "too big to fail" regime.
I'm pretty sure the framers had a thing for that.
posted by petebest at 4:45 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am pretty sure the correct response to being asked how much you can bench by Richard Spencer is a quick jab followed by a haymaker.
Kevin Durant couldn't bench 180lbs at the NBA draft combine.
But he could average 27ppg and 8 rebounds in the NBA 2017 playoffs so far (and will cash 26 and half million dollars worth of checks this season - not counting endorsements). Those guys who could bench more? They're golfiing now and earned way less.
Which is to say that bench pressing means as much as having all the good words. Richard Spencer should join the Mensabaters.
posted by srboisvert at 4:48 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Kevin Durant couldn't bench 180lbs at the NBA draft combine.
But he could average 27ppg and 8 rebounds in the NBA 2017 playoffs so far (and will cash 26 and half million dollars worth of checks this season - not counting endorsements). Those guys who could bench more? They're golfiing now and earned way less.
Which is to say that bench pressing means as much as having all the good words. Richard Spencer should join the Mensabaters.
posted by srboisvert at 4:48 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't know what this means.
If I were more conspiracy minded betting man I'd say it's a polite way of covering Putin telling Qatar that if it decides to say a fucking word about Rosneft they're going to turn their shitty little peninsula to glass.
posted by Talez at 4:48 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
If I were more conspiracy minded betting man I'd say it's a polite way of covering Putin telling Qatar that if it decides to say a fucking word about Rosneft they're going to turn their shitty little peninsula to glass.
posted by Talez at 4:48 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
The president (maybe?) can't be charged with a crime. The illegitimate majority that has consolidated its stolen power doesn't seem to care. These motherfuckers took a series of loopholes and turned them into one giant glorious goatse.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 4:49 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 4:49 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
NYT: Comey Told Sessions: Don’t Leave Me Alone With Trump
posted by maudlin at 4:49 PM on June 6, 2017 [125 favorites]
WASHINGTON — The day after President Trump asked James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director, to end an investigation into his former national security adviser, Mr. Comey confronted Attorney General Jeff Sessions and said he did not want to be left alone again with the president, according to current and former law enforcement officials.Welcome to life as a woman around Trump, bucko.
Mr. Comey believed Mr. Sessions should protect the F.B.I. from White House influence, the officials said, and pulled him aside after a meeting in February to tell him that private interactions between the F.B.I. director and the president were inappropriate. But Mr. Sessions could not guarantee that the president would not try to talk to Mr. Comey alone again, the officials said.
posted by maudlin at 4:49 PM on June 6, 2017 [125 favorites]
Reminder Ben Wittes is a big fan of Gitmo & torture, a real shitstain on the name of humanity. And he's fucking with you with his tick tick tick.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 4:49 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 4:49 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
International issues were also discussed. Vladimir Putin reaffirmed Russia’s principled position in favour of settling crises by political and diplomatic means, through dialogue.
Haggling over what it will cost for Putin to pull Trump's strings and put an end to the Saudi threat
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Haggling over what it will cost for Putin to pull Trump's strings and put an end to the Saudi threat
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
How is nobody on any of my social media feeds talking about any of this?? Is all of this as important as I think it is? News hasn't always been like this, right? If it was, maybe I just never really paid attention. I'm not an anxious person, but all of this news is finally provoking some anxiety. And I don't want to quit it two days before the Comey testimony. But I think I'm going to take a breather and catch up next week. Maybe.
posted by robstercraw at 4:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by robstercraw at 4:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Real Clear Defense: Where does Qatar go from here? To Moscow?
Suggesting that the Russians may emerge as the ultimate winners from this recurring inter-Arab contest - even to the point of being invited to establish a presence in Qatar courtesy of the Saudi stance - should give Washington pause for thought.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Strategically, such an outcome would be a further, important gain for the Russia in the region. Politically, it would add to the current burdens of the Trump Administration.
However gratifying the pursuit of Qatar by the Saudis and Emiratis may seem to some commentators, the potential for it to go horribly wrong for the US - and to gift a remarkable opportunity to Russians - should not be under-estimated.
How is nobody on any of my social media feeds talking about any of this??
Complex geopolitics is a ridiculously difficult subject that is full of gazillions of hidden variables. Not really good social media fodder.
posted by Talez at 4:53 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Complex geopolitics is a ridiculously difficult subject that is full of gazillions of hidden variables. Not really good social media fodder.
posted by Talez at 4:53 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Re: Ben Wittes, his tick tick was for the Comey/Sessions story that maudlin linked above.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ben Wittes is a big fan of Gitmo & torture,
I found this lawfare article by Wittes about Guantanamo where he condemns as disingenuous the arguments for and against its closure in fairly balanced terms. Where do you see him being "a big fan of torture?"
posted by spitbull at 5:01 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I found this lawfare article by Wittes about Guantanamo where he condemns as disingenuous the arguments for and against its closure in fairly balanced terms. Where do you see him being "a big fan of torture?"
posted by spitbull at 5:01 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
How is nobody on any of my social media feeds talking about any of this??
I live in two completely different social media worlds. My twitter feed is full of nothing* but Trump/Russia, Trump/stealing money from the kids, Trump/Sessions, Trump/Qatar, McConnell/AHCA, Trump/Comey (My God, that all happened today...) and my facebook feed, which is people I know in real life as opposed to journalists and activists, which has none of it. Not a peep. Trump pulling out of the Paris agreement broke through and made an appearance there last week though. I mean I get why that is, but it's kind of fascinating that they're such different worlds.
*Okay, there's some NHL and NBA playoff stuff in there too
posted by TwoWordReview at 5:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
I live in two completely different social media worlds. My twitter feed is full of nothing* but Trump/Russia, Trump/stealing money from the kids, Trump/Sessions, Trump/Qatar, McConnell/AHCA, Trump/Comey (My God, that all happened today...) and my facebook feed, which is people I know in real life as opposed to journalists and activists, which has none of it. Not a peep. Trump pulling out of the Paris agreement broke through and made an appearance there last week though. I mean I get why that is, but it's kind of fascinating that they're such different worlds.
*Okay, there's some NHL and NBA playoff stuff in there too
posted by TwoWordReview at 5:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Also this 2008 WaPo op-ed, also about the practical challenges of closing Guantanamo given lack of clear policy debate about how to handle detainees.
posted by spitbull at 5:04 PM on June 6, 2017
posted by spitbull at 5:04 PM on June 6, 2017
Re: Ben Wittes, his tick tick was for the Comey/Sessions story that maudlin linked above.
Beat him by two minutes. Bro, do you even link?
Meanwhile, Obama and Trudeau are having dinner at Joe Beef in Montreal tonight. No word if they're getting two scoops of cheese curds on their poutine.
posted by maudlin at 5:05 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Beat him by two minutes. Bro, do you even link?
Meanwhile, Obama and Trudeau are having dinner at Joe Beef in Montreal tonight. No word if they're getting two scoops of cheese curds on their poutine.
posted by maudlin at 5:05 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
And here's Wittes on torture from 2011. Yeah there is some "war is complicated" apologia, but he condemns Abu Ghraib. "Big fan of torture" really seems like a calumny. To say nothing of shitstain on humanity or whatever.
posted by spitbull at 5:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 5:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Re: Richard Spencer & weightlifting
Kevin Durant couldn't bench 180lbs at the NBA draft combine. But he could average 27ppg and 8 rebounds in the NBA 2017 playoffs so far (and will cash 26 and half million dollars worth of checks this season.
True, but Spencer can't go to his left.
posted by msalt at 5:11 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Kevin Durant couldn't bench 180lbs at the NBA draft combine. But he could average 27ppg and 8 rebounds in the NBA 2017 playoffs so far (and will cash 26 and half million dollars worth of checks this season.
True, but Spencer can't go to his left.
posted by msalt at 5:11 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
WaPo: Top intelligence official told associates Trump asked him if he could intervene with Comey on FBI Russia probe
The nation’s top intelligence official told associates in March that President Trump asked him if he could intervene with then-FBI Director James B. Comey to get the bureau to back off its focus on former national security adviser Michael Flynn in its Russia probe, according to officials.posted by zachlipton at 5:11 PM on June 6, 2017 [50 favorites]
On March 22, less than a week after being confirmed by the Senate, Director of National Intelligence Daniel Coats attended a briefing at the White House together with officials from several government agencies. As the briefing was wrapping up, Trump asked everyone to leave the room except for Coats and CIA Director Mike Pompeo.
The president then started complaining about the FBI investigation and Comey’s handling of it, said officials familiar with the account Coats gave to associates. Two days earlier, Comey had confirmed in a congressional hearing that the bureau was probing whether Trump’s campaign coordinated with Russia during the 2016 race.
Trump asked everyone to leave the room except for Coats and CIA Director Mike Pompeo.
Pompeo should be considered as much and as dangerous a collaborator as Sessions.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Pompeo should be considered as much and as dangerous a collaborator as Sessions.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
And the winner of the late-afternoon/early evening news dump is, again, the WaPo. Whoa.
*popcorn*
posted by maudlin at 5:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
The events involving Coats show the president went further than just asking intelligence officials to deny publicly the existence of any evidence showing collusion during the 2016 election, as The Washington Post reported in May. The interaction with Coats indicates that Trump aimed to enlist top officials to have Comey curtail the bureau’s probe.(Coats will testify at 10 AM tomorrow.)
*popcorn*
posted by maudlin at 5:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [25 favorites]
Jim Sciutto on Twitter: Breaking: Comey to testify he never told Trump he was not under FBI investigation @GloriaBorger reports
posted by maudlin at 4:10 PM on June 6
Am I the only one parsing how insane this is (if true) ?
The President lied about what Comey did using the same letter he fired him in. We already knew he lied about why he was firing him (he admitted as much that same week). Now this?
If you're Comey and you just got fired in the same breath as a lie about you doing something unethical three times, are you going to hold back in congressional testimony at all?
It's going to be plainly found out in two days that Trump's entire letter about firing Comey was a big fat stack of lies. He told Comey to stop the investigation, Comey refused, and then Trump fired him on a bunch of blatantly false pretenses after commissioning a cover story from the DoJ.
I think this is going to be a turning point because this story is very, very easy to explain: Trump fired Comey for totally fake reasons because Comey wouldn't back off on investigating Russia. All the other Trump/Russia stuff is nebulous and hard to explain (backchannels? Kushner? Kislyak? Ambassadors? Sessions? Why is a meeting bad?).
You can boil down the Comey thing to an eight second soundbite and put it in a TV ad for the 2018 House races with room to spare: Trump fired Comey under false pretenses because he was afraid what Comey would find out about Russia. Why is Candidate X helping Trump hide from the truth?
posted by 0xFCAF at 5:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 4:10 PM on June 6
Am I the only one parsing how insane this is (if true) ?
The President lied about what Comey did using the same letter he fired him in. We already knew he lied about why he was firing him (he admitted as much that same week). Now this?
If you're Comey and you just got fired in the same breath as a lie about you doing something unethical three times, are you going to hold back in congressional testimony at all?
It's going to be plainly found out in two days that Trump's entire letter about firing Comey was a big fat stack of lies. He told Comey to stop the investigation, Comey refused, and then Trump fired him on a bunch of blatantly false pretenses after commissioning a cover story from the DoJ.
I think this is going to be a turning point because this story is very, very easy to explain: Trump fired Comey for totally fake reasons because Comey wouldn't back off on investigating Russia. All the other Trump/Russia stuff is nebulous and hard to explain (backchannels? Kushner? Kislyak? Ambassadors? Sessions? Why is a meeting bad?).
You can boil down the Comey thing to an eight second soundbite and put it in a TV ad for the 2018 House races with room to spare: Trump fired Comey under false pretenses because he was afraid what Comey would find out about Russia. Why is Candidate X helping Trump hide from the truth?
posted by 0xFCAF at 5:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
Mother of God, that long list of crazy news stories that happened today that I just wrote out is out of date again.
posted by TwoWordReview at 5:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 5:16 PM on June 6, 2017 [53 favorites]
Trumpfilter: Mother of God, that long list of crazy news stories that happened today that I just wrote out is out of date again.
posted by uosuaq at 5:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 5:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster.
posted by Justinian at 5:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [78 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [78 favorites]
to hell with Apricot Asswipe, Granny Starver and all of them, we're doing what's right by our people and our earth
Sorry if this has already been asked (I'm catching up, promise): won't the GOP congress just write their own weak-ass legislation that just happens to preempt the states' ability to do this? Red states are already doing it to counties and cities.
posted by ctmf at 5:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sorry if this has already been asked (I'm catching up, promise): won't the GOP congress just write their own weak-ass legislation that just happens to preempt the states' ability to do this? Red states are already doing it to counties and cities.
posted by ctmf at 5:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
It has been _0_ days hours minutes since the last Trump disaster.
posted by acb at 5:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by acb at 5:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
I was working on a list of crazy news stories too, from arguably most important to least important:
-The Middle East is all furious at each other supposedly because Russia hacked the state news agency and planted a fake story, and the President of the United States completely played into Russia's hand by getting mad on the internet about it.
-Three different obstruction-related stories:
-- Trump got mad at the Attorney General because he wasn't helping him obstruct justice enough. The AG offered to resign if he thought it would help.
-- He also tried to get the DNI to interfere with an investigation into his administration.
-- The head of the FBI didn't want to be alone in a room with the President.
-The White House still has no clear message on the debt ceiling, though Trump apparently made it clear that people should listen to Mnuchin and not Mulvaney, and the fact that I'm typing a sentence about which member of the President's staff people are supposed to listen to when it comes to whether to default on the national debt is a sign of how screwed up this all is.
-The Senate says it's working hard to do, er, something to the healthcare system, which might possibly not be as bad as what the House wants to do, but will be extremely bad. Also, they may or may not be anywhere near having their act together depending on who you ask.
-The President of the United States directed money for a children's cancer charity benefit to his own golf club, raising all sorts of questions about self-dealing, and his family lied about it.
-The bees are surrounding the Vice President and poised to strike!
How the hell is "lied about taking money from kids with cancer" near the bottom of the list?
posted by zachlipton at 5:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [83 favorites]
-The Middle East is all furious at each other supposedly because Russia hacked the state news agency and planted a fake story, and the President of the United States completely played into Russia's hand by getting mad on the internet about it.
-Three different obstruction-related stories:
-- Trump got mad at the Attorney General because he wasn't helping him obstruct justice enough. The AG offered to resign if he thought it would help.
-- He also tried to get the DNI to interfere with an investigation into his administration.
-- The head of the FBI didn't want to be alone in a room with the President.
-The White House still has no clear message on the debt ceiling, though Trump apparently made it clear that people should listen to Mnuchin and not Mulvaney, and the fact that I'm typing a sentence about which member of the President's staff people are supposed to listen to when it comes to whether to default on the national debt is a sign of how screwed up this all is.
-The Senate says it's working hard to do, er, something to the healthcare system, which might possibly not be as bad as what the House wants to do, but will be extremely bad. Also, they may or may not be anywhere near having their act together depending on who you ask.
-The President of the United States directed money for a children's cancer charity benefit to his own golf club, raising all sorts of questions about self-dealing, and his family lied about it.
-The bees are surrounding the Vice President and poised to strike!
How the hell is "lied about taking money from kids with cancer" near the bottom of the list?
posted by zachlipton at 5:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [83 favorites]
How long did it take for the body of lalex's post here to be completely out of date? Two hours?
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
lalex and zachlipton, just kiss already!!
posted by orrnyereg at 5:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 5:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
NYT: Comey Told Sessions: Don’t Leave Me Alone With Trump
Aaaaaaand with knowledge of that (and despite his recusal), Sessions still participated actively in Comey's firing.
Hello, Bar Association? Yes, I can hold.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [72 favorites]
Aaaaaaand with knowledge of that (and despite his recusal), Sessions still participated actively in Comey's firing.
Hello, Bar Association? Yes, I can hold.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [72 favorites]
Let us remember that the President blew up the legal defense of his own EO by tweeting loudly and proudly about the ban that's not a ban but is in fact a ban while simultaneously shitting on the mayor of the largest city of our closest ally yesterday - or forever ago, depending on how time dilation works for you.
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:28 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:28 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
i think this is what vernor vinge really meant by the Singularity - it's not about uploading your brain into immortal robots, it's the point where the distance to the historical event horizon becomes zero. i no longer feel like i can predict what will happen tomorrow with any hope of being correct. if anything, that window of confidence is continuing to contract.
at least at the level of world events. pretty sure i gotta go to work tomorrow.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [30 favorites]
at least at the level of world events. pretty sure i gotta go to work tomorrow.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [30 favorites]
Jim Acosta (my boo) Spotted: Rubio, Gardner, Cotton have arrived for dinner with Trump.
Dying to know if anyone is having meatloaf.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Dying to know if anyone is having meatloaf.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
Qatar’s mistake: they let their airline's lease on office space at Trump Tower lapse in 2014
posted by acb at 5:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by acb at 5:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [38 favorites]
Apologies if this has been said (I've read most of the thread, haven't seen it) but:
I'd bet that when Trump sent that tweet about Qatar, he had no clue we have a military base there. Zero.
posted by martin q blank at 5:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [52 favorites]
I'd bet that when Trump sent that tweet about Qatar, he had no clue we have a military base there. Zero.
posted by martin q blank at 5:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [52 favorites]
ICYMI, Cotton and Rubio are on Senate Intel which is holding the hearings. IDK why Gardner's there.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:33 PM on June 6, 2017
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:33 PM on June 6, 2017
maybe this is a bad place for this question, but I've been wondering: is it possible for trump to have already signed pardons for all of his subordinates' wrongdoings and classified them to avoid public disclosure?
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 5:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 5:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
i think this is what vernor vinge really meant by the Singularity - it's not about uploading your brain into immortal robots, it's the point where the distance to the historical event horizon becomes zero. i no longer feel like i can predict what will happen tomorrow with any hope of being correct.
“This was supposed to be thefuture singularity. Where's my flying car post-scarcity civilisation run by weakly-godlike AI?”
posted by acb at 5:34 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
“This was supposed to be the
posted by acb at 5:34 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Jim Acosta (my boo) Spotted: Rubio, Gardner, Cotton have arrived for dinner with Trump.
Well, that's one invertebrate, one monster, and I don't know much about Gardner but if he's between them and he's going to have dinner with Cheetoh Mussolini I'm sure he can't be great.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:34 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, that's one invertebrate, one monster, and I don't know much about Gardner but if he's between them and he's going to have dinner with Cheetoh Mussolini I'm sure he can't be great.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:34 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd bet that when Trump sent that tweet about Qatar, he had no clue we have a military base there. Zero
That would be my assumption as well but here's the thing-- you can ask this question about everything Trump does: Did he know or did he just not care? Stupid or evil? Rinse, repeat.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
That would be my assumption as well but here's the thing-- you can ask this question about everything Trump does: Did he know or did he just not care? Stupid or evil? Rinse, repeat.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
Jim Acosta (my boo) Spotted: Rubio, Gardner, Cotton have arrived for dinner with Trump.
I'm sure they're going to talk about "grandkids" and golf.
posted by Talez at 5:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm sure they're going to talk about "grandkids" and golf.
posted by Talez at 5:37 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is there any evidence that Trump has any higher cognitive functions at this stage, rather than being nothing more than a collection of reflexes such as rage and echolalia?
posted by acb at 5:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by acb at 5:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Given his rejection of the Paris accords, I'm not sure he's aware America is on Earth.
posted by adept256 at 5:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 5:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
If we survive all this, someone will write a book, and historians in 4,000 years will read it:
Modern historians agree it's likely there actually was a human named 'Donald Trump', but he is almost certainly a composite character derived from multiple disastrous presidencies, possibly spanning the sins of presidents over the course of a century, if not longer. The frequency of norm-breaking and erratic missteps clearly could not have been sustained by a pre-fusional society without riots, insurrections, or worse.posted by 0xFCAF at 5:40 PM on June 6, 2017 [211 favorites]
"2016-2020: A reckoning" freely mixes myth and true account. Just as Pliny the Elder wrote of the wolf-headed Cynocephalus in "Natural History", the aptonymed martyr 'Reality Winner' is clearly a self-insertion by the author and is not likely to have actually lived.
Chances are that, by then, historiography of the Trumpreich will have become inextricably muddled with other texts, such as, for example, Alfred Jarry's Ubu Roi.
posted by acb at 5:43 PM on June 6, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by acb at 5:43 PM on June 6, 2017 [16 favorites]
You guys! You guys! I forgot it's Infrastructure Week!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on June 6, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on June 6, 2017 [44 favorites]
WaPo: Trump, furious and frustrated, will join allies in attacking Comey testimony (backgrounder, no earthshakers, except that MY GOD -- this reads like trying to schedule a calm day with a toddler. All that's missing is a juicebox and a nap.)
This account of Trump’s mind-set and the preparations of his team in the run-up to Comey’s testimony is based on interviews with 20 White House officials, Trump friends and other senior Republicans, many of whom spoke only on the condition of anonymity to offer candid perspectives.posted by maudlin at 5:50 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
The president’s lawyers and aides have been urging him to resist engaging, and they hope to keep him busy Thursday with other events meant to compete for his — and the news media’s — attention.
“The president’s going to have a very, very busy day,” White House press secretary Sean Spicer said. “I think his focus is going to be on pursuing the agenda and the priorities that he was elected to do.”
As of now, Trump’s Thursday morning — when Comey is scheduled to start testifying — is open. He plans to deliver a 12:30 p.m. speech at the Faith and Freedom Coalition’s conference in Washington, followed by a 3:30 p.m. meeting with governors and mayors on infrastructure projects.
maybe this is a bad place for this question, but I've been wondering: is it possible for trump to have already signed pardons for all of his subordinates' wrongdoings and classified them to avoid public disclosure?
Objection: assumes competence not in evidence.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:53 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
Objection: assumes competence not in evidence.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:53 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
He plans to deliver a 12:30 p.m. speech at the Faith and Freedom Coalition’s conference in Washington, followed by a 3:30 p.m. meeting with governors and mayors on infrastructure projects.
...where he will check his phone and ignore what anyone else says the entire time.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:53 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
...where he will check his phone and ignore what anyone else says the entire time.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:53 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
SLoG, we have the same link, and the story seems just about identical, but they *just*punched up the headline.
It's always going to be Breaking News O'Clock from now on, isn't it? There's no escape.
posted by maudlin at 5:55 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's always going to be Breaking News O'Clock from now on, isn't it? There's no escape.
posted by maudlin at 5:55 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
...where he will check his phone and ignore what anyone else says the entire time.
i.e., what we all will be doing Thursday.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:57 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
i.e., what we all will be doing Thursday.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:57 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
The current MSNBC graphic:
"PRESIDENT BUSINESS"
Subtle!
posted by middleclasstool at 5:58 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
"PRESIDENT BUSINESS"
Subtle!
posted by middleclasstool at 5:58 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
(from above Washington Post link) The White House recently approached Geoff Morrell —Pentagon press secretary for more than four years under former defense secretary Robert Gates — about coming inside the administration and overhauling the communications operation, according to three people with knowledge of the overture.
this is not hilarious and delightful to very many people I bet, but several years ago I had the very great pleasure of hearing a third-hand report of the phonecall wherein Geoff Morrell called up my terrible boss to yell at him for some idiot thing. and I had to listen to a good few hundred of Morrell's press briefings back when he was giving them, so I feel like I have a certain sense of his personality, even though he is a professional so of course I do not. and the idea of them thinking he would come help them. or ANYBODY. even if they deserved it. it's beautiful.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:00 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
this is not hilarious and delightful to very many people I bet, but several years ago I had the very great pleasure of hearing a third-hand report of the phonecall wherein Geoff Morrell called up my terrible boss to yell at him for some idiot thing. and I had to listen to a good few hundred of Morrell's press briefings back when he was giving them, so I feel like I have a certain sense of his personality, even though he is a professional so of course I do not. and the idea of them thinking he would come help them. or ANYBODY. even if they deserved it. it's beautiful.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:00 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
So they're going to try and stop him from tweeting on Thursday. Would the secret service take a tweet to save the Prez?
posted by adept256 at 6:00 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 6:00 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
More from the same article:
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:01 PM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
The Republican National Committee has lined up a roster of surrogates to appear on conservative news stations nationwide to defend Trump. But a list the RNC distributed on Tuesday could hardly be described as star-studded: The names include Bob Paduchik, an RNC co-chair who worked on Trump’s Ohio campaign; Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi (R); and Arkansas Attorney General Leslie Rutledge (R).So to sum up: few people want to go on TV to defend him and those who will do it are not given any talking points on how to do so. This is the POTUS we are talking about not some axe murderer who looks like a stinky monkey. The rot is becoming clear to anyone with an eye to see it.
Trump so far has been unable to recruit reinforcements for his beleaguered senior staff. Conversations about former Trump campaign official David Urban possibly joining the White House have stalled, although he remains in contact with several Trump advisers, officials said. [...]
Some Trump loyalists outside the White House who are preparing to go on television news shows Thursday to defend the president and undermine Comey’s testimony said they have been given no talking points, nor seen any evidence of a strategy taking shape. One such loyalist said external supporters are afraid to coordinate too closely with the White House because they fear they could be accused of obstructing justice.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:01 PM on June 6, 2017 [36 favorites]
“He’s not going to take an attack by James Comey laying down,” said Roger Stone, a longtime Trump friend and former political adviser. “Trump is a fighter, he’s a brawler and he’s the best counterpuncher in American politics.”
it must always be understood that roger stone's guiding principle is to maximize chaos, and this frequently overwhelms any putative loyalty to the republican party
posted by murphy slaw at 6:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
it must always be understood that roger stone's guiding principle is to maximize chaos, and this frequently overwhelms any putative loyalty to the republican party
posted by murphy slaw at 6:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
the historiography of the Trumpreich
I'm hoping that future historians know this period as "the Trumpenbrexit."
posted by octobersurprise at 6:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm hoping that future historians know this period as "the Trumpenbrexit."
posted by octobersurprise at 6:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
So, when I first heard "Qatar" my first thought was "Al Jazeera". The Arab dictators HATE Al Jazeera, and have always been frustrated that Qatar bankrolls it.
Previously, with the US pushing for democracy/human rights/etc. in the Middle East, none would have dared engage in open hostilities against a promoter of a free press (and general ally - see above re: US base). But when Trump went for a visit and told all the Sunnis gathered "you be you", it seems to me as if it was a green light to take down Qatar at the first excuse they could find.
I would not be surprised if the resolution to this is having Qatar reduce/eliminate their support for Al Jazeera. Which would also explain the shadiness of the official excuse for a blockade.
Is this too conspiratorial? I would appreciate other people's thoughts.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 6:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [27 favorites]
Previously, with the US pushing for democracy/human rights/etc. in the Middle East, none would have dared engage in open hostilities against a promoter of a free press (and general ally - see above re: US base). But when Trump went for a visit and told all the Sunnis gathered "you be you", it seems to me as if it was a green light to take down Qatar at the first excuse they could find.
I would not be surprised if the resolution to this is having Qatar reduce/eliminate their support for Al Jazeera. Which would also explain the shadiness of the official excuse for a blockade.
Is this too conspiratorial? I would appreciate other people's thoughts.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 6:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [27 favorites]
I really expect Comey will hold back on the substance and the shockers in favor of letting Mueller handle things from an investigative approach, to be honest. Kinda planning on not paying any attention to Thursday. If anything actually blows up from all this, I'll be surprised.
...although at this point maybe I shouldn't use phrases like "blows up."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
...although at this point maybe I shouldn't use phrases like "blows up."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
(just to clarify the already clear from my previous comment: geoff morrell is a cock. but he knows how to say sentences. he has basic self interest and basic brains. and when he decides to take barrels of money from bad people, he takes it from oil bajillionaires like a man of greed and sense and no conscience, not from dingdongs like whoever at the white house tried to get him on the phone and ended up leaving a pathetic voicemail he erased without listening to, I bet. he doesn't need them and they are sad sad men not to have understood that and given up before even trying.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
my comment on qatar is that we're all making the mistake of believing it's about us, or about trump, or about putin or about russia
it's about the kingdom of saudi arabia coming to the conclusion that they can do as they wish in the middle east and no one's going to stop them as long as they don't target the wrong people or countries
the effect of all of this will be to make iran think that it's next - if they are convinced that something similar will happen to them all hell will break loose
the other effect may well be that certain more moderate parties may decide that the days of the kingdom of saudi arabia should be numbered
i don't think trump or putin really understand how they're being played here
posted by pyramid termite at 6:11 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
it's about the kingdom of saudi arabia coming to the conclusion that they can do as they wish in the middle east and no one's going to stop them as long as they don't target the wrong people or countries
the effect of all of this will be to make iran think that it's next - if they are convinced that something similar will happen to them all hell will break loose
the other effect may well be that certain more moderate parties may decide that the days of the kingdom of saudi arabia should be numbered
i don't think trump or putin really understand how they're being played here
posted by pyramid termite at 6:11 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
Yeah, the worst thing he can do is call Comey a liar. Comey only cares about his self image as Impartial Dude - he will recount the facts as he perceived them and leave the rest to Mueller. If Trump goes out and calls Comey a liar, though, or worse a partisan hack.... the gloves will come off.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:12 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
my comment on qatar is that we're all making the mistake of believing it's about us, or about trump, or about putin or about russia
While I generally agree, it's totally reasonable for us in the West (and particularly the US) to consider how this whole shitshow has impacted events in the Middle East, and what the repercussions of those events will be. I kinda take for granted that the Saudis vs Bahrain really is primarily about Saudi vs Bahrain. Regardless, the US is a factor, and how the US handles it will have ramifications across the rest of our alliances.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
While I generally agree, it's totally reasonable for us in the West (and particularly the US) to consider how this whole shitshow has impacted events in the Middle East, and what the repercussions of those events will be. I kinda take for granted that the Saudis vs Bahrain really is primarily about Saudi vs Bahrain. Regardless, the US is a factor, and how the US handles it will have ramifications across the rest of our alliances.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
@Charles Pierce The Georgia 6 debate was highlighted by Handel's saying, "I do not support a livable wage." Hmmm
@Jamie Dupree Handel says her biggest to-do items are Obamacare reform & then tax reform; Ossoff says to go after budget waste
@Justin Farmer Handel: Disagrees with CBO estimate of AHCA. Ossoff: We must protect individuals with pre-existing conditions.
If you want more, WSBTVAtlanta MINUTE-BY-MINUTE: 6th District debate updates
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
@Jamie Dupree Handel says her biggest to-do items are Obamacare reform & then tax reform; Ossoff says to go after budget waste
@Justin Farmer Handel: Disagrees with CBO estimate of AHCA. Ossoff: We must protect individuals with pre-existing conditions.
If you want more, WSBTVAtlanta MINUTE-BY-MINUTE: 6th District debate updates
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
> "PRESIDENT BUSINESS"
My brother and I call him President Subreddit.
posted by guiseroom at 6:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
My brother and I call him President Subreddit.
posted by guiseroom at 6:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
I think Al Jazeera is a piece of it. I think Russia viewing discord in the Middle East as important to its long-term agenda is a piece of it. I think this business with the kidnapping and the ransom is a piece of it, if that's all, real. And I think Trump giving the Saudis carte blanche to do what ever they want is a piece of it. In other words, we were building toward this kind of a mess for a while.
The NYT's Interpreter newsletter today by Max Fisher and Amanda Taub, which T.D. Strange linked upthread, is really helpful in this regard, and worth a quick read. There's a view of this situation in which Qatar over the past 25 years or so was punching well above its weight in the eyes of Saudi Arabia, especially building itself up through soft power tools like Al Jazeera, Qatar Airways, the World Cup bid, the campuses of foreign universities like Cornell Medical and Carnegie Mellon, etc... (stuff you can do when you have a lot of natural gas money and aren't ruled by strict Wahhabists) and more directly by increasingly involving itself in conflicts in the region.
So at its core, you have an increasingly unstable situation where Saudi Arabia is not going to tolerate this from its neighbor for that much longer. Add in Trump backing the Saudis in doing whatever they want and whatever Russia did exactly to kick this off, and the situation explodes quickly.
posted by zachlipton at 6:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
The NYT's Interpreter newsletter today by Max Fisher and Amanda Taub, which T.D. Strange linked upthread, is really helpful in this regard, and worth a quick read. There's a view of this situation in which Qatar over the past 25 years or so was punching well above its weight in the eyes of Saudi Arabia, especially building itself up through soft power tools like Al Jazeera, Qatar Airways, the World Cup bid, the campuses of foreign universities like Cornell Medical and Carnegie Mellon, etc... (stuff you can do when you have a lot of natural gas money and aren't ruled by strict Wahhabists) and more directly by increasingly involving itself in conflicts in the region.
So at its core, you have an increasingly unstable situation where Saudi Arabia is not going to tolerate this from its neighbor for that much longer. Add in Trump backing the Saudis in doing whatever they want and whatever Russia did exactly to kick this off, and the situation explodes quickly.
posted by zachlipton at 6:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
Ha ha. According to Maddow, neither Brendan Sullivan ("Do I look like a potted plant?") or Ted Olson (buddy with GWB) want anything to do with Donald Trump.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by octobersurprise at 6:35 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, and Saudi Arabia has reportedly given Qatar 24 hours to meet 10 demands. Among them:
posted by zachlipton at 6:40 PM on June 6, 2017 [87 favorites]
8. Cease broadcasting the Al Jazeera news channel.Al Jazeera is far from the only problem the Saudis have with Qatar, but it's clearly on the list.
9. Apologise to all Gulf governments for 'abuses' by Al Jazeera.
posted by zachlipton at 6:40 PM on June 6, 2017 [87 favorites]
In other words, we were building toward this kind of a mess for a while.
at this point in history, any drastic shift in the balance of power in the middle east is a recipe for the metaphorical Land War In Asia - i.e. a prolonged quagmire with very little in the way of possible upside.
so naturally, instigating a drastic shift in that balance of power is something that republican administrations do at the first feasible opportunity.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
at this point in history, any drastic shift in the balance of power in the middle east is a recipe for the metaphorical Land War In Asia - i.e. a prolonged quagmire with very little in the way of possible upside.
so naturally, instigating a drastic shift in that balance of power is something that republican administrations do at the first feasible opportunity.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Twitter thread of Saudi Arabia's demands to Qatar. No consequences specified for non compliance. At least 1 & 10 to me involve core sovereignty so sounds to me like they are designed to be rejected.
posted by shothotbot at 6:43 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by shothotbot at 6:43 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Remember Comey holding the stage at the AG hearings?
Comey is likely to speak in long, complex sentences with subtle distinctions that the toddler will not have the attention span to follow - let alone understand in the literal sense, abandoning all hope of subtext.
Comey's going to Comey, and toddler gonna twitter-tantrum, for sure. But more important than what Comey says, is what the toddler thinks Comey says, and then twits about.
posted by Dashy at 6:43 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Comey is likely to speak in long, complex sentences with subtle distinctions that the toddler will not have the attention span to follow - let alone understand in the literal sense, abandoning all hope of subtext.
Comey's going to Comey, and toddler gonna twitter-tantrum, for sure. But more important than what Comey says, is what the toddler thinks Comey says, and then twits about.
posted by Dashy at 6:43 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh, and Saudi Arabia has reportedly given Qatar 24 hours to meet 10 demands.
Boy am I missing the United States as a country with a president right now.
posted by Artw at 6:44 PM on June 6, 2017 [75 favorites]
Boy am I missing the United States as a country with a president right now.
posted by Artw at 6:44 PM on June 6, 2017 [75 favorites]
The Georgia 6 debate was highlighted by Handel's saying, "I do not support a livable wage."
Work full time and still be poverty stricken to eventually die in a ditch. Fuck her.
posted by Talez at 6:49 PM on June 6, 2017 [22 favorites]
Work full time and still be poverty stricken to eventually die in a ditch. Fuck her.
posted by Talez at 6:49 PM on June 6, 2017 [22 favorites]
Al Jazeera has a pretty good timeline about the Qatar situation
Can someone explain to me why Saudi Arabia hates Al Jazeera so much?
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:50 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Can someone explain to me why Saudi Arabia hates Al Jazeera so much?
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:50 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm only seeing those Saudi demands on Twitter threads, where it has also been shot down with about the same level of credibility. Anyone know if this has been corroborated by reliable sources/outlets yet?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:50 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:50 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
According to Maddow, neither Brendan Sullivan ...or Ted Olson ...want anything to do with Donald Trump.
Michael Isikoff's story for Yahoo News, he was her guest.
posted by spitbull at 6:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Michael Isikoff's story for Yahoo News, he was her guest.
posted by spitbull at 6:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can someone explain to me why Saudi Arabia hates Al Jazeera so much?
That would be the entirety of the concept of a free and critical media for starters.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [56 favorites]
That would be the entirety of the concept of a free and critical media for starters.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [56 favorites]
zachlipton: "Oh, and Saudi Arabia has reportedly given Qatar 24 hours to meet 10 demands."
Uhhh... guys? What's going on here? Is this real? These are not the kinds of demands that one sovereign nation can (or, rather, should) make of another sovereign nation. Nor are these the kinds of demands that a sovereign nation can or should accede to. At the same time, that Twitter thread doesn't indicate what the "or else" Saudi Arabia is threatening. I mean, why have a 24-hour deadline (which is laughably short -- I mean, the Cuban Missile unfolded over 13 days) but no stated consequences?
If this is real, this feels really, really dangerous to me. Am I being paranoid? Has this been confirmed yet by any reliable mainstream outlet? What the fuck is going on with this shit?
posted by mhum at 6:52 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Uhhh... guys? What's going on here? Is this real? These are not the kinds of demands that one sovereign nation can (or, rather, should) make of another sovereign nation. Nor are these the kinds of demands that a sovereign nation can or should accede to. At the same time, that Twitter thread doesn't indicate what the "or else" Saudi Arabia is threatening. I mean, why have a 24-hour deadline (which is laughably short -- I mean, the Cuban Missile unfolded over 13 days) but no stated consequences?
If this is real, this feels really, really dangerous to me. Am I being paranoid? Has this been confirmed yet by any reliable mainstream outlet? What the fuck is going on with this shit?
posted by mhum at 6:52 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Alexander Potemkin, the executive director of the American-Russian Cultural Cooperation Foundation
Folks, we have another Reality Winner! Ding, ding, ding!
posted by Mental Wimp at 6:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Folks, we have another Reality Winner! Ding, ding, ding!
posted by Mental Wimp at 6:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Can someone explain to me why Saudi Arabia hates Al Jazeera so much?
They are shitty, shitty fascists who support Al Queda and Al Jazeera mentions those things? If you think King Trump is a nightmare then these fucks are fifty times as bad: real deal autocratic monarchs who actually do get to do as they please, mostly.
posted by Artw at 6:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
They are shitty, shitty fascists who support Al Queda and Al Jazeera mentions those things? If you think King Trump is a nightmare then these fucks are fifty times as bad: real deal autocratic monarchs who actually do get to do as they please, mostly.
posted by Artw at 6:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
Al-Jazeera will put questions to Saudi officials like (paraphrasing) "Why do you support elections in Syria but not in Saudi Arabia?"
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
So the jokes about super villians playing with a magic orb thingy were, in fact, not jokes.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [48 favorites]
Can someone explain to me why Saudi Arabia hates Al Jazeera so much?
Al Jazeera is like the Christian Science Monitor of the Islamic world - yes, the organization funding it is horrible, but they look at it as a religious imperative to support the media to report truthfully and honestly, thereby empowering the Faithful.
It has not always succeeded in this mission, but it's a lot closer than anything else published/broadcast in Arabic.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:59 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Al Jazeera is like the Christian Science Monitor of the Islamic world - yes, the organization funding it is horrible, but they look at it as a religious imperative to support the media to report truthfully and honestly, thereby empowering the Faithful.
It has not always succeeded in this mission, but it's a lot closer than anything else published/broadcast in Arabic.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:59 PM on June 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi (R)
Hmm, Pam Bondi, Pam B... wasn't there a Thing or a question about...
*wiki-wiki-wik*
So are there *any* useful idiots willing to go on teevee to defend the President anymore, or can we assume at this point that they're all implicated in one or another corrupt Trump scandal?
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:59 PM on June 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
Hmm, Pam Bondi, Pam B... wasn't there a Thing or a question about...
*wiki-wiki-wik*
ControversiesAh, yes. That Pam Bondi.
Bondi has been criticized for election fundraising activities, including questions raised about contributions from Donald Trump and his associates. The Florida Attorney General's office received at least 22 fraud complaints about Trump University. In 2013 a spokesperson for Bondi announced her office was considering joining a lawsuit initiated by New York's Attorney General against Trump regarding tax fraud. Four days later 'And Justice for All', a PAC that supported Bondi's re-election campaign received a $25,000 donation from the Donald J. Trump Foundation, after which Bondi declined to join the lawsuit against Trump University.
So are there *any* useful idiots willing to go on teevee to defend the President anymore, or can we assume at this point that they're all implicated in one or another corrupt Trump scandal?
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:59 PM on June 6, 2017 [29 favorites]
Oh, great. Saudi Arabia has taken Trump's gormless tweets as backing for their aggression toward the Trumpless USA's ally Qatar, and believes their bellicosity will be supported by us. This may be the start of WWIII (hope not, hope not, hope not, hope not).
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:01 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:01 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
If that list of demands isn't bullshit, I'm giving some extreme side eye at demand #1. Right after Trump's visit the Saudis move to isolate Iran from a regional ally with this surprise aggression? Feels way too much like laying the groundwork for a US fight with Iran, and now I'm wondering what kind of horse trading is going on behind the scenes of Donnie's special relationship with Russia to get Putin to hang Iran out to dry, that's the key piece. I think there would be trepidation to go after Iran under the status quo of a week ago, but if Iran ends up exposed without friends, especially without Russia, all bets are off. If Russia and Saudi Arabia cozy up as BFFs soon, I could see it happening. Trump can't make a deal within the framework of US politics to save his life, but a sleazy backroom deal among authoritarian petrobuddies to get their war on might be in his wheelhouse.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:01 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:01 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
queenofbithynia: this is not hilarious and delightful to very many people I bet, but several years ago I had the very great pleasure of hearing a third-hand report of the phonecall wherein Geoff Morrell called up my terrible boss to yell at him for some idiot thing. and I had to listen to a good few hundred of Morrell's press briefings back when he was giving them, so I feel like I have a certain sense of his personality, even though he is a professional so of course I do not. and the idea of them thinking he would come help them. or ANYBODY. even if they deserved it. it's beautiful.
just to clarify the already clear from my previous comment: geoff morrell is a cock. but he knows how to say sentences. he has basic self interest and basic brains. and when he decides to take barrels of money from bad people, he takes it from oil bajillionaires like a man of greed and sense and no conscience, not from dingdongs like whoever at the white house tried to get him on the phone and ended up leaving a pathetic voicemail he erased without listening to, I bet. he doesn't need them and they are sad sad men not to have understood that and given up before even trying.)
Delicious! Thanks for this insight.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
just to clarify the already clear from my previous comment: geoff morrell is a cock. but he knows how to say sentences. he has basic self interest and basic brains. and when he decides to take barrels of money from bad people, he takes it from oil bajillionaires like a man of greed and sense and no conscience, not from dingdongs like whoever at the white house tried to get him on the phone and ended up leaving a pathetic voicemail he erased without listening to, I bet. he doesn't need them and they are sad sad men not to have understood that and given up before even trying.)
Delicious! Thanks for this insight.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Am I remembering correctly that the US no longer has a military base in Saudia Arabia, but does have one in Qatar?
posted by drezdn at 7:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by drezdn at 7:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
The twitter link I posted (from an Al Jazeera journalist) is the most reliable English source I've seen, but I'll admit I'm skeptical about the demands and they could well be propaganda. The Sky News Arabic service does report that there are 10 demands, though it doesn't list them. Then it has another source denying them. So yeah.
The list of demands is obviously extremely inflammatory, but I can't judge whether it's real and the Saudis intend to be inflammatory, or fake and whoever started spreading it (Russia? Who even knows anymore?) just wants to stir things up some more.
If anyone has sources they trust on this stuff, I'm all ears, as we're getting increasingly outside the range of topics on which my BS detector is reliable.
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
The list of demands is obviously extremely inflammatory, but I can't judge whether it's real and the Saudis intend to be inflammatory, or fake and whoever started spreading it (Russia? Who even knows anymore?) just wants to stir things up some more.
If anyone has sources they trust on this stuff, I'm all ears, as we're getting increasingly outside the range of topics on which my BS detector is reliable.
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think Sky News Arabia may have redacted that claim (but I can't read Arabic)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:04 PM on June 6, 2017
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:04 PM on June 6, 2017
Bondi is corrupt af and has been fucking over the citizens of Florida with her corrupt-af-edness since before Lord Dampnut descended the escalator.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Man oh man. It's like the kids figured out just how disengaged the substitute teacher is and are busy setting fire to the pencil sharpener shavings and locking the math nerds in the coat closet.
"Hey class? Tamp it down until after Fox and Friends is over, mmmkay?"
posted by notyou at 7:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
"Hey class? Tamp it down until after Fox and Friends is over, mmmkay?"
posted by notyou at 7:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
Appropos to the first 4chan-backed presidency, this is "mods are asleep, post [illegal material]" on a geopolitical scale
posted by prize bull octorok at 7:15 PM on June 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 7:15 PM on June 6, 2017 [35 favorites]
On March 22, less than a week after being confirmed by the Senate, Director of National Intelligence Daniel Coats attended a briefing at the White House together with officials from several government agencies. As the briefing was wrapping up, Trump asked everyone to leave the room except for Coats and CIA Director Mike Pompeo.
The president then started complaining about the FBI investigation and Comey’s handling of it, said officials familiar with the account Coats gave to associates. Two days earlier, Comey had confirmed in a congressional hearing that the bureau was probing whether Trump’s campaign coordinated with Russia during the 2016 race.
The U.S. Supreme Court finally directed Nixon to turn over all of the tapes. The result was the discovery of the "smoking gun" long sought by prosecutors. This was a conversation a few days after the break-in in which Nixon discussed with Haldeman a plan to have the CIA tell the FBI to stay clear of the situation because it involved national security. It proved that Nixon himself was involved in the coverup.
The above paragraphs are in fact from two different historical eras, see if you can work out where the separation is!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:15 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
The president then started complaining about the FBI investigation and Comey’s handling of it, said officials familiar with the account Coats gave to associates. Two days earlier, Comey had confirmed in a congressional hearing that the bureau was probing whether Trump’s campaign coordinated with Russia during the 2016 race.
The U.S. Supreme Court finally directed Nixon to turn over all of the tapes. The result was the discovery of the "smoking gun" long sought by prosecutors. This was a conversation a few days after the break-in in which Nixon discussed with Haldeman a plan to have the CIA tell the FBI to stay clear of the situation because it involved national security. It proved that Nixon himself was involved in the coverup.
The above paragraphs are in fact from two different historical eras, see if you can work out where the separation is!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:15 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
drezdn: Am I remembering correctly that the US no longer has a military base in Saudia Arabia, but does have one in Qatar?
Al Udeid Air Base, Qatar (10-12k troops)
Prince Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia (not used by the USA anymore)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Al Udeid Air Base, Qatar (10-12k troops)
Prince Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia (not used by the USA anymore)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:18 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
The rationale for impeachment is clearly there for the taking, if it hasn't been for months. Now, the only thing it will take for President Donald Trump to be impeached is for a handful of Republican representatives to feel that it is in their political interest to impeach the president, or otherwise, for a Democratic majority to be elected to the House in 2018.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
locking the math nerds in the coat closet
Oh, so that's why it's so dark in this timeline
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [31 favorites]
Oh, so that's why it's so dark in this timeline
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [31 favorites]
So conflicted about the Al Jazeera thing. On the one hand what the hell? one sovereign nation can't tell another to shut down a news service? On the other hand Al Jazeera keeps "accidentally" tweeting horribly antisemitic caricatures and is generally horribly antisemitic but with a veneer of respectability, (which in a lot of ways is worse than the out and out stuff) so if they do go the way of the dodo I wont be too upset, BUT that's one hell of a precedent and the Saudi government SUCKS so urg. Can I be team nobody?
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 7:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 7:33 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Tomorrow's official Presidential schedule has Trump "meeting with Obamacare victims".
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
There's plenty of room to hate both Al Jazeera and Saudi Arabia. Let Sithrak into your heart.
posted by Behemoth at 7:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Behemoth at 7:42 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
Tomorrow's official Presidential schedule has Trump "meeting with Obamacare victims".
Needs a [fake] tag, but it seems to be real.
Anyway, remember Obama? That was awesome.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:43 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Needs a [fake] tag, but it seems to be real.
Anyway, remember Obama? That was awesome.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:43 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oh, and let's not forget the Republican Party. Round of applause for the useless country destroying genocide enabling assholes who made this all possible. Yes, even you, #neverTrumpers.
posted by Artw at 7:44 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:44 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Alexander Potemkin, the executive director of the American-Russian Cultural Cooperation Foundation
Because it takes a Potemkin village to raze a President.
posted by scalefree at 7:45 PM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
Because it takes a Potemkin village to raze a President.
posted by scalefree at 7:45 PM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
From the WaPo article linked above: "The West Wing, meanwhile, has taken on an atmosphere of legal uncertainty. White House counsel Donald F. McGahn has told staff to hold onto emails, documents and phone records, officials said, a move of caution designed to prepare the staff for future legal requests, should they come. McGahn has specifically advised staffers to avoid what are known as the “burn bags” in the executive branch that are often used to discard papers"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:46 PM on June 6, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:46 PM on June 6, 2017
Oh, like the one that set off the fire alarm?
posted by Artw at 7:47 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:47 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ryan Lizza/New Yorker: How to Influence Trump
WaPo (Abby Phillip, Jenna Johnson): Trump undercuts his aides by contradicting their statements, in which a pattern is noticed.
LA Times/Matt Pearce: Neo-Nazi website raises $150,000 to fight Southern Poverty Law Center lawsuit
Sam Nunberg, who has worked for Trump and advises the White House, regularly goes to the major newspapers when he needs to get Trump’s attention. “If I want to communicate to the President and I don’t want to bother him directly, then I speak to the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Financial Times,” he told me. Others noted the importance of the two major New York tabloids, the Post and the Daily News, which Trump reads religiously. The opinion page of the Daily News, which was not previously considered to have large influence in Washington, is considered a highly coveted outlet for Republican P.R. professionals trying to get Trump’s attention. “The line is around the block—you can’t get in,” a G.O.P. consultant said. Slipping Trump a news story, whether real or fake, has, according to Politico, influenced his opinion on climate change, sunk nominees for prominent positions, and helped get a top staffer fired.Twitter allows you to target ads to specific usernames, but you have to give them a list of a minimum 500 usernames so you can't just harass small groups of people that way. There's a rumor that Twitter doesn't serve ads to some of their users who they consider important, but I've been curious for a while now whether you could target Trump directly (fill your list with 499 garbage usernames that will never log in and @realdonaldtrump). There's plenty of potential of mischief by creating a list of 500 significant people in politics and media. If I've thought of this, I have to assume big name lobbying firms have been doing it for a long time, right?
Some Republican advertising firms have developed a slightly more high-tech way of getting to the President and the people around him. The Republican consultant explained that clients can pay to have I.P. addresses for the White House and Mar-a-Lago, Trump’s Florida retreat, bombarded with ads.
“The reporters that are around Trump and around the White House and everyone around the President is being targeted through geotargeting and I.P.-address targeting,” the Republican consultant told me, “by people who couldn’t get onto the big TV shows and into the big papers.”
WaPo (Abby Phillip, Jenna Johnson): Trump undercuts his aides by contradicting their statements, in which a pattern is noticed.
LA Times/Matt Pearce: Neo-Nazi website raises $150,000 to fight Southern Poverty Law Center lawsuit
A neo-Nazi blogger has been promised donations of more than $150,000 for his legal defense after the Southern Poverty Law Center sued him for organizing a “troll storm” against a Jewish woman in Montana.posted by zachlipton at 7:49 PM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
The donations to Andrew Anglin and the website he founded, the Daily Stormer, came in over the course of less than two months on a crowdfunding site that caters to far-right causes, overcoming the difficulties that white nationalists often face in raising money online.
A reporter named Jared Yates Sexton literally got a text from a source tonight that said "the Department of Justice is on fire." (link to tweet that says the same thing). So, maybe that's why.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
At remote desert garrison in Syria, a US-Iranian confrontation is brewing
Both US and Russian warplanes have been deployed, and some shots have already been fired, including by US-backed coalition forces on Tuesday, the US military said.
With both sides girding for a fight, the coming days or weeks could see US and allied troops coming into conflict with Iranian-backed forces for the first time in Syria’s six-year civil war ... Although the Iran-backed militiamen retreated to their staging post at the Zaza checkpoint junction 50 miles north of Tanf, the US-supported forces also were forced to pull back when they were attacked by Russian aircraft.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:52 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Both US and Russian warplanes have been deployed, and some shots have already been fired, including by US-backed coalition forces on Tuesday, the US military said.
With both sides girding for a fight, the coming days or weeks could see US and allied troops coming into conflict with Iranian-backed forces for the first time in Syria’s six-year civil war ... Although the Iran-backed militiamen retreated to their staging post at the Zaza checkpoint junction 50 miles north of Tanf, the US-supported forces also were forced to pull back when they were attacked by Russian aircraft.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:52 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
A Wondermark comic with a sobering warning.
posted by suelac at 7:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by suelac at 7:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
"the Department of Justice is on fire."
Like... literally? Do they need to stop, drop and roll?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Like... literally? Do they need to stop, drop and roll?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Wow. They made it by four votes. That's pretty crazy.
posted by Talez at 8:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Um, you guys, I think Trump is trying to drain the swamp of fresh clean drinkable water: Trump administration wants to sell the Washington Aqueduct. It's a plan buried deep in the budget that could well amount to nothing, but some folks want the Army Corps to get out of the potable water business, and selling the thing off to private investors would be the most Trumpian thing to do, especially since DC Water isn't likely to pay $119 million to take it over themselves.
@huntermw: "BREAKING: Kansas House votes 88 to 31 to fundamentally end Brownback tax cuts and override gov's veto. It will be law"
I loved this response from Alex Burns at the Times: "No! New Taxes?" [explanation, if you aren't familiar with the Simpsons reference]
posted by zachlipton at 8:08 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
@huntermw: "BREAKING: Kansas House votes 88 to 31 to fundamentally end Brownback tax cuts and override gov's veto. It will be law"
I loved this response from Alex Burns at the Times: "No! New Taxes?" [explanation, if you aren't familiar with the Simpsons reference]
posted by zachlipton at 8:08 PM on June 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
"The Middle East is all furious at each other supposedly because Russia hacked the state news agency and planted a fake story, and the President of the United States completely played into Russia's hand by getting mad on the internet about it."
This was a little ways back and I think that some subsequent comments have discussed this at more length, but it's important to know that there is a long-running dispute here and the positions being taken are the positions that these countries have wanted to take. In the past, they felt they couldn't. Now they feel they can.
So that's the suspicious part. It's the coincidence of Trump's meeting with these leaders and being told, no doubt, that Qatar is friendly with Iran, and if there's one thing about the Middle East that Trump knows (and, in fact, there is one and only one thing that Trump knows about the Middle East) it's that Iran is Really Bad. And Qatar has been handing out money all over the place, including many groups considered as terrorists by the US. So. No doubt that Trump is utterly ignorant about how true this all is of other ME nations, nor that he knows nothing about the Sunni/Shia conflict involved in all of this, so he goes along with this vilification of Qatar eagerly.
Meanwhile, Russia has inserted false and highly inflammatory news into the official Qatar state media. Personally, I feel pretty sure that many, at the very least the Saudis, became aware this was false, but it functioned as the pretext for the provocation that the Saudis needed to initiate their move.
What about Russia? Well, in the same way that the naval base in Syria is critically important to Russia strategically in the Middle East, the US's base in Qatar is the US's central command for the ME. Russia was very unhappy that the US decided to actively engage against Syria. Also, the US's strong relationship with Saudi Arabia while also being on very good terms with Qatar made for a strong stabilizing -- in the US's interest -- in the region. Disrupting that is to the benefit of Russia. I don't quite know how Qatar's investment in Rosneft fit in, but it probably does.
Both the Saudis and Russia are manipulating Trump to the detriment of US interests; and Russia is pretty much manipulating everyone involved in a bid to, ultimately, weaken the US's influence and increase its own.
It's happening now because there's approximately no one else as ignorant and gullible as Trump in the US government, now or in the past. Bob Corker was speechless at Trump's tweet about this. Mattis and everyone else have been trying to calm everything down, not stir it up. It's happening now because Trump is the most shallow, ignorant, and impulsive President arguably ever and he is practically like a shiny bauble that the world's geopolitical magpies cannot resist as a target for credulous manipulation. We've been worrying that Trump might use the enormous Executive powers of the US military to create global catastrophe, but it's probably more likely that the chaos that ensues as everyone scrambles to either manipulate this idiot or avoid the consequences of someone else's manipulation or to predict what he might do or be manipulated tomorrow, is what will set off the first spark. Granted, how Trump responds militarily to something like what we're seeing is, um, important.
In short, all of this are preexisting interests and conflicts. Trump is the useful idiot that the parties involved are taking advantage of, so that's why now and how.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [97 favorites]
This was a little ways back and I think that some subsequent comments have discussed this at more length, but it's important to know that there is a long-running dispute here and the positions being taken are the positions that these countries have wanted to take. In the past, they felt they couldn't. Now they feel they can.
So that's the suspicious part. It's the coincidence of Trump's meeting with these leaders and being told, no doubt, that Qatar is friendly with Iran, and if there's one thing about the Middle East that Trump knows (and, in fact, there is one and only one thing that Trump knows about the Middle East) it's that Iran is Really Bad. And Qatar has been handing out money all over the place, including many groups considered as terrorists by the US. So. No doubt that Trump is utterly ignorant about how true this all is of other ME nations, nor that he knows nothing about the Sunni/Shia conflict involved in all of this, so he goes along with this vilification of Qatar eagerly.
Meanwhile, Russia has inserted false and highly inflammatory news into the official Qatar state media. Personally, I feel pretty sure that many, at the very least the Saudis, became aware this was false, but it functioned as the pretext for the provocation that the Saudis needed to initiate their move.
What about Russia? Well, in the same way that the naval base in Syria is critically important to Russia strategically in the Middle East, the US's base in Qatar is the US's central command for the ME. Russia was very unhappy that the US decided to actively engage against Syria. Also, the US's strong relationship with Saudi Arabia while also being on very good terms with Qatar made for a strong stabilizing -- in the US's interest -- in the region. Disrupting that is to the benefit of Russia. I don't quite know how Qatar's investment in Rosneft fit in, but it probably does.
Both the Saudis and Russia are manipulating Trump to the detriment of US interests; and Russia is pretty much manipulating everyone involved in a bid to, ultimately, weaken the US's influence and increase its own.
It's happening now because there's approximately no one else as ignorant and gullible as Trump in the US government, now or in the past. Bob Corker was speechless at Trump's tweet about this. Mattis and everyone else have been trying to calm everything down, not stir it up. It's happening now because Trump is the most shallow, ignorant, and impulsive President arguably ever and he is practically like a shiny bauble that the world's geopolitical magpies cannot resist as a target for credulous manipulation. We've been worrying that Trump might use the enormous Executive powers of the US military to create global catastrophe, but it's probably more likely that the chaos that ensues as everyone scrambles to either manipulate this idiot or avoid the consequences of someone else's manipulation or to predict what he might do or be manipulated tomorrow, is what will set off the first spark. Granted, how Trump responds militarily to something like what we're seeing is, um, important.
In short, all of this are preexisting interests and conflicts. Trump is the useful idiot that the parties involved are taking advantage of, so that's why now and how.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:13 PM on June 6, 2017 [97 favorites]
ICYMI, Cotton and Rubio are on Senate Intel which is holding the hearings. IDK why Gardner's there.
From way upthread, but Gardner's my jerkface Senator. He's refused to hold any in-person meetings, but he had time to meet with Duterte last week and according to 538, he's the Senator who's got the highest Trump plus-minus, which is the variance between the predicted amount he should agree with Trump based on Trump's share of the CO electorate minus Clinton's and how much he actually votes with Trump. I write, fax, call and visit his office a lot, but it doesn't seem to be doing anything. I was naively hoping he might be one of the fabled "moderate" Republicans, but that hope's pretty much dead.
posted by danielleh at 8:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
From way upthread, but Gardner's my jerkface Senator. He's refused to hold any in-person meetings, but he had time to meet with Duterte last week and according to 538, he's the Senator who's got the highest Trump plus-minus, which is the variance between the predicted amount he should agree with Trump based on Trump's share of the CO electorate minus Clinton's and how much he actually votes with Trump. I write, fax, call and visit his office a lot, but it doesn't seem to be doing anything. I was naively hoping he might be one of the fabled "moderate" Republicans, but that hope's pretty much dead.
posted by danielleh at 8:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is a dumb question that I can't figure out how to google the answer for.
According to the 25th Amendment, if Trump were to leave office before the end of his term (by impeachment or resignation or whatever), the Vice President, Pence, would immediately become President. The office of the VP would then be empty until President Pence nominated a new VP who would then have to be confirmed by a majority vote of both the Houses and Senate. If Pence were then impeached (or resigned or whatever) and the new VP had already been confirmed, that person would then immediately become president.
However if President Pence left office before the VP nominee had been confirmed (and before his term were up, of course), the current Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, would then become president.
So people talk about the possibility of both Trump and Pence being impeached for their involvement with Russian hacks during the election and the resulting lies and obstruction of justice to cover it all up, resulting in Ryan becoming President, but that's most likely not how it would turn out, right?
For Ryan to become President this way, both Trump and Pence would have to leave office more or less simultaneously, before the hypothetical President Pence can get his new VP confirmed. This is of course assuming that this all happens before the 2018 elections and that Republicans wouldn't just rally behind Pence in the case of Trump leaving office.
posted by arcolz at 8:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
According to the 25th Amendment, if Trump were to leave office before the end of his term (by impeachment or resignation or whatever), the Vice President, Pence, would immediately become President. The office of the VP would then be empty until President Pence nominated a new VP who would then have to be confirmed by a majority vote of both the Houses and Senate. If Pence were then impeached (or resigned or whatever) and the new VP had already been confirmed, that person would then immediately become president.
However if President Pence left office before the VP nominee had been confirmed (and before his term were up, of course), the current Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, would then become president.
So people talk about the possibility of both Trump and Pence being impeached for their involvement with Russian hacks during the election and the resulting lies and obstruction of justice to cover it all up, resulting in Ryan becoming President, but that's most likely not how it would turn out, right?
For Ryan to become President this way, both Trump and Pence would have to leave office more or less simultaneously, before the hypothetical President Pence can get his new VP confirmed. This is of course assuming that this all happens before the 2018 elections and that Republicans wouldn't just rally behind Pence in the case of Trump leaving office.
posted by arcolz at 8:21 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
For Ryan to become President this way, both Trump and Pence would have to leave office more or less simultaneously, before the hypothetical President Pence can get his new VP confirmed.
Or Ryan just refuses to allow Pence's VP to be confirmed, because the alternative is Ryan. He's enough of a snake to do it, too.
posted by corb at 8:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
Or Ryan just refuses to allow Pence's VP to be confirmed, because the alternative is Ryan. He's enough of a snake to do it, too.
posted by corb at 8:24 PM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
Trump administration wants to sell the Washington Aqueduct
Water is the next privatization wet (pun intended) dream. Avoid Nestlé products. And Trump Ice.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Water is the next privatization wet (pun intended) dream. Avoid Nestlé products. And Trump Ice.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Eric Trump on Fox News tonight (video): Democrats "aren't even people" who are trying to obstruct his family and a great man.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
@huntermw: "BREAKING: Kansas House votes 88 to 31 to fundamentally end Brownback tax cuts and override gov's veto. It will be law"
Just as the Kansas experience finally takes the first step towards ending, Republicans are rolling out the failure nationally. It took 6 years and Kansas' economy and government services nearly collapsing into a failed state, and in the mean time they still reelected Brownback anyway right in the middle of the collapse.
But it's full steam ahead with the Republican Cat Food budget, ending funding for every domestic program and cutting taxes for billionaires to zero. They've learned nothing. Learning isn't the point, the tax cuts are the point. Looting is the point. Hurting the poor and the middle class is the point.
There's no telling how much damage Republicans can do to 200 years of progress if we can't get them out of power faster than in Kansas.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [59 favorites]
Just as the Kansas experience finally takes the first step towards ending, Republicans are rolling out the failure nationally. It took 6 years and Kansas' economy and government services nearly collapsing into a failed state, and in the mean time they still reelected Brownback anyway right in the middle of the collapse.
But it's full steam ahead with the Republican Cat Food budget, ending funding for every domestic program and cutting taxes for billionaires to zero. They've learned nothing. Learning isn't the point, the tax cuts are the point. Looting is the point. Hurting the poor and the middle class is the point.
There's no telling how much damage Republicans can do to 200 years of progress if we can't get them out of power faster than in Kansas.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [59 favorites]
Eric Trump on Fox News tonight (video): Democrats "aren't even people"
Boy, I was hoping to first be declared an Unperson by someone higher up than the undercooked idiot vampire Trump.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [64 favorites]
Boy, I was hoping to first be declared an Unperson by someone higher up than the undercooked idiot vampire Trump.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:27 PM on June 6, 2017 [64 favorites]
Eric Trump on Fox News tonight (video): Democrats "aren't even people" who are trying to obstruct his family and a great man.
On the one hand regarding large groups as "not really people" is a bad sign and means you probably dream of genocide and are a Nazi or similar form of fuckface.
On the other hand, let's face it, nobody really thinks of the Trumpspawn as human.
posted by Artw at 8:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
On the one hand regarding large groups as "not really people" is a bad sign and means you probably dream of genocide and are a Nazi or similar form of fuckface.
On the other hand, let's face it, nobody really thinks of the Trumpspawn as human.
posted by Artw at 8:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm very thrilled about the results out of my state of Kansas. Very happy to see the voter revolt of 2016 paid dividends, and that my past optimism was justified. And glad the override finally succeeded. Took them a few tries this session.
Just as Brownback represented the Tea&Trump future of the GOP, I'm hoping the current generation in the KS legislature represents the future of the post-Trump era GOP. Still assholes in many ways, but they can actually see a positive role for government. And will work to ensure the government succeeds.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Just as Brownback represented the Tea&Trump future of the GOP, I'm hoping the current generation in the KS legislature represents the future of the post-Trump era GOP. Still assholes in many ways, but they can actually see a positive role for government. And will work to ensure the government succeeds.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Eric Trump on Fox News tonight (video): Democrats "aren't even people" who are trying to obstruct his family and a great man.
What's Hannity doing back on the air?
posted by scalefree at 8:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
What's Hannity doing back on the air?
posted by scalefree at 8:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hannity: You're so right, Eric! Not even people, so harming them would not even be a crime, technically, right? [fake, but he was probably thinking it]
posted by ctmf at 8:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 8:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Y'know, I have enough trouble feeling like a worthy human being without being unpersoned by someone as awful as Eric Trump.
On the plus side, I don't hold his estimation in any particular regard.
posted by Archelaus at 8:46 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
On the plus side, I don't hold his estimation in any particular regard.
posted by Archelaus at 8:46 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
On the contrary, we should all consider it a badge of honor. If that merry band of Gollums thinks you're bad, that's a better character reference than canonization.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:50 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by middleclasstool at 8:50 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
quick note: Iranians are not only the people with the most positive attitudes towards Americans in the Middle East, they're also the least anti-semitic! And that includes Turkey! Greece has 10% more anti-semites than Iran!
I'm obviously not including Israel.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:57 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
I'm obviously not including Israel.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:57 PM on June 6, 2017 [24 favorites]
New rule: Nobody gets to call themselves a "moderate" or a "centrist" unless they identify the two political extremes between which they equidistance themselves.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:59 PM on June 6, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:59 PM on June 6, 2017 [22 favorites]
A reporter named Jared Yates Sexton literally got a text from a source tonight that said "the Department of Justice is on fire."
oh please oh please oh please
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 9:00 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
oh please oh please oh please
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 9:00 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
We don't have the luxury of picking out the "good guys" in this current environment. They're all "bad guys" to some extent, and we can only be fairly certain that whomever Trump is supporting is the worst. And "the enemy of my enemy" is not supposed to be a permanent friend, just a temporary ally. After all, we allied ourselves with the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany, and that kinda worked out.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
Eric Trump should just call us untermenschen and stop beating around the bush.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 9:04 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
pretty sure eric trump can't pronounce "untermenschen"
posted by murphy slaw at 9:05 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 9:05 PM on June 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
After all, we allied ourselves with the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany, and that kinda worked out.
Not so much for anyone east of Berlin, though.
posted by Justinian at 9:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not so much for anyone east of Berlin, though.
posted by Justinian at 9:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
To be clear, I agree with you about temporary alliances of convenience. But let's not pretend we didn't hang a lot of people out to dry with the Soviets!
posted by Justinian at 9:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 9:07 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
This water privatisation thing has me thinking of an exchange I had with a friend while we were walking through the park one sunny day.
I was trying to explain conflict of interest 5yo style. I said imagine if the new mayor owned a water bottling factory and immediately got rid of all the water fountains in the park. You'd say the guy that sells water shouldn't be in charge of the water fountains. It's in the public interest to have water available freely, especially in places where people will be walking about in the sun. It's the water bottler's private interest to sell water. So it's a conflict of interest for the mayor to keep selling water. That's why Trump is an asshole.
posted by adept256 at 9:08 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
I was trying to explain conflict of interest 5yo style. I said imagine if the new mayor owned a water bottling factory and immediately got rid of all the water fountains in the park. You'd say the guy that sells water shouldn't be in charge of the water fountains. It's in the public interest to have water available freely, especially in places where people will be walking about in the sun. It's the water bottler's private interest to sell water. So it's a conflict of interest for the mayor to keep selling water. That's why Trump is an asshole.
posted by adept256 at 9:08 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
I enjoy the sketches Josh Marshall does to accompany his tweets now but I'm really worried about him.
posted by guiseroom at 9:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 9:09 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
A reporter named Jared Yates Sexton literally got a text from a source tonight that said "the Department of Justice is on fire." (link to tweet that says the same thing). So, maybe that's why.
This feels like that episode of Battlestar Galactica: "Progress reports arriving. The farms of Aerilon are burning. The beaches of Canceron are burning. The plains of Leonis are burning. The jungles of Scorpia are burning. The pastures of Tauron are burning. The harbors of Picon are burning. The cities of Caprica are burning. The oceans of Aquaria are burning. The courthouses of Libran are burning. The forests of Virgon are burning. The Colonies of Man lie trampled at our feet."
Except here it's cabinet departments. And there's no plan.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:11 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
This feels like that episode of Battlestar Galactica: "Progress reports arriving. The farms of Aerilon are burning. The beaches of Canceron are burning. The plains of Leonis are burning. The jungles of Scorpia are burning. The pastures of Tauron are burning. The harbors of Picon are burning. The cities of Caprica are burning. The oceans of Aquaria are burning. The courthouses of Libran are burning. The forests of Virgon are burning. The Colonies of Man lie trampled at our feet."
Except here it's cabinet departments. And there's no plan.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:11 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
leotrotsky, that was the BSG movie The Plan, not technically an episode or an actual plan. So the similarities are significant.
posted by guiseroom at 9:14 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 9:14 PM on June 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
"kinda worked out" was intended party sarcastic and party specific in terms of "succeeded in defeating that one enemy".
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:19 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Deleted a whole bunch of back-and-forth. Please reload the thread, and also consider if a stark binary is going to get you anywhere productive. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 9:20 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 9:20 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
New rule: Nobody gets to call themselves a "moderate" or a "centrist" unless they identify the two political extremes between which they equidistance themselves.
I have had two conversations with people in the last year in which they said "I'm a libertarian, a moderate." Which reminded me of that SUV commercial I saw after gasoline prices spiked that said "it's a crossover...that seats eight".
posted by middleclasstool at 9:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
I have had two conversations with people in the last year in which they said "I'm a libertarian, a moderate." Which reminded me of that SUV commercial I saw after gasoline prices spiked that said "it's a crossover...that seats eight".
posted by middleclasstool at 9:25 PM on June 6, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm not really a moderate, I'm more of a lefty-liberal-socialist what have you, but my parents would consider themselves moderates. They aren't though, they're basically as lefty as me, but older and like three titches more conservative. I long for a world where they are the moderates though.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 9:28 PM on June 6, 2017
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 9:28 PM on June 6, 2017
would eric trump consider you human?
posted by localhuman at 9:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 9:30 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Eric Trump would most certainly not consider me human, besides the voting pattern, I'm Queer, Jewish, and Autistic, as well as an earlier hominid. Quite a lot of people don't view me as human. I'm still coming to terms with that.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 9:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 9:31 PM on June 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** GA-06 -- The first debate between Ossoff and Handel was tonight. They both apparently did fine-ish, but Handel dropped a pretty big gaffe when she said, "I do not support a livable wage." A 2016 poll showed a $15/hr minimum wage had 55% support in GA. This will undoubtedly be featured in Dem commercials starting tomorrow.
** NJ gov primary -- As expected, former Goldman Sachs exec and Obama ambassador Phil Murphy won the Dem nomination handily, with 48% of the vote. Notable that despite the Goldman background, he has a pretty progressive platform (Bernie Sanders's kid even endorsed him). No surprises on the GOP side either, as Lt Gov Kim Guadagno won with 47% support.
Looking ahead to the general - Murphy has an immense lead of 25 points, the largest at this point since 1973. This is unusual in NJ - like MA or MD, the Dems normally control the legislature, but the governor goes to the GOP not infrequently. A Dem win would restore unified control of the NJ government.
** CA-34 -- The second round of voting to fill Xavier Becerra's seat (he resigned to become CA AG) pits Dems Jimmy Gomez and Robert Lee Ahn. Gomez was considered to be a pretty heavy favorite, but at this point, it's nearly dead tied. CA is doing their typical glacial poll counting, so there are only about 8% reporting.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
** GA-06 -- The first debate between Ossoff and Handel was tonight. They both apparently did fine-ish, but Handel dropped a pretty big gaffe when she said, "I do not support a livable wage." A 2016 poll showed a $15/hr minimum wage had 55% support in GA. This will undoubtedly be featured in Dem commercials starting tomorrow.
** NJ gov primary -- As expected, former Goldman Sachs exec and Obama ambassador Phil Murphy won the Dem nomination handily, with 48% of the vote. Notable that despite the Goldman background, he has a pretty progressive platform (Bernie Sanders's kid even endorsed him). No surprises on the GOP side either, as Lt Gov Kim Guadagno won with 47% support.
Looking ahead to the general - Murphy has an immense lead of 25 points, the largest at this point since 1973. This is unusual in NJ - like MA or MD, the Dems normally control the legislature, but the governor goes to the GOP not infrequently. A Dem win would restore unified control of the NJ government.
** CA-34 -- The second round of voting to fill Xavier Becerra's seat (he resigned to become CA AG) pits Dems Jimmy Gomez and Robert Lee Ahn. Gomez was considered to be a pretty heavy favorite, but at this point, it's nearly dead tied. CA is doing their typical glacial poll counting, so there are only about 8% reporting.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:32 PM on June 6, 2017 [32 favorites]
Oh, and GA-06 turnout continued high, although maybe dropping slightly from earlier crazy pace, currently at 63k.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 9:36 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
The (reported) Saudi demand that Qatar shut down Al Jazeera was presumably because of the good things about AJ: it's a genuine news organisation that reports from an underserved area, which makes it a perceived threat to the Saudis. But that doesn't mean that Jews (or anyone else) should be expected to cheer for an intensely antisemitic state broadcaster.
Saudi Arabia's threats against Qatar are malevolent and destabilising. That's enough reason to push back against them. We don't need to justify our wish for peace by pretending that Qatar or its subsidiaries are especially virtuous, or refrain from criticising them because there are other important things going on.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:46 PM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
Saudi Arabia's threats against Qatar are malevolent and destabilising. That's enough reason to push back against them. We don't need to justify our wish for peace by pretending that Qatar or its subsidiaries are especially virtuous, or refrain from criticising them because there are other important things going on.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:46 PM on June 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
from the "this is what passes for light comic relief these days" dept.
the house passed a resolution condemning the beating of protesters outside the turkish embassy which paul ryan announced with this statement:
the capital of turkey is ankara
posted by murphy slaw at 9:46 PM on June 6, 2017 [140 favorites]
the house passed a resolution condemning the beating of protesters outside the turkish embassy which paul ryan announced with this statement:
Today, the House sent an unequivocal message that violence against peaceful demonstrators will not be tolerated. The blame for this assault lies with the Turkish government alone. I urge Istanbul to finally accept responsibility for this egregious incident and apologize to those who were harmed. With the leadership of Chairman Royce, Ranking Member Engel, and members on both sides of the aisle, our resolve to defend the First Amendment and condemn suppression is stronger than ever.”(emphasis mine)
the capital of turkey is ankara
posted by murphy slaw at 9:46 PM on June 6, 2017 [140 favorites]
"...wonders if this will be another Iraq war that Democratic politians use to slaughter themselves by lining up to support it..."
I think that if it comes down to it, the US and both the Republicans and the Democrats will support anything up to and including an invasion of Qatar by Saudi Arabia. I don't see how the US would get involved unless it was opposing that, which I don't think it would do. You might think so, given that I wrote earlier that this ultimately hurts US interests in the region -- we're better off with Qatar as it is.
But the bottom line here is, basically, the combination of Iran and Israel. With regard to Iran, all the inertia in Washington is anti-Iran, and Qatar, unlike its neighbors, is friendly with Iran -- and Iran is Saudi Arabia's chief strategic enemy. And if we had to choose between Saudi Arabia and Qatar, we will always choose Saudi Arabia, as we always have, despite all the reasons why we should not. That base? If the Saudis overrun Qatar or just blockade it, you can be sure that both sides will cooperate with the US and not threaten the base in any way. Qatar thought it had bought US protection by building it ... it did not, apparently.
Russia's play is probably that either outcome works for them. They'd probably prefer avoiding hostilities, but would be happy with whatever undermines the US/Qatar relationship short of that. And if came to a Saudi invasion, well, in this context, for Russia, chaos is a ladder.
With regard to Israel, Qatar has been supporting Hamas. This is why Israel is basically happy about this development, it's what Netanyahu has been wanting for years.
So it's bad for Iran, good for Israel (probably not in the long run, but put that aside), and good for Saudi Arabia, who the US is, apparently, joined at the hip with. This all means that when push comes to shove, most everyone in DC is going to break against Qatar.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:57 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think that if it comes down to it, the US and both the Republicans and the Democrats will support anything up to and including an invasion of Qatar by Saudi Arabia. I don't see how the US would get involved unless it was opposing that, which I don't think it would do. You might think so, given that I wrote earlier that this ultimately hurts US interests in the region -- we're better off with Qatar as it is.
But the bottom line here is, basically, the combination of Iran and Israel. With regard to Iran, all the inertia in Washington is anti-Iran, and Qatar, unlike its neighbors, is friendly with Iran -- and Iran is Saudi Arabia's chief strategic enemy. And if we had to choose between Saudi Arabia and Qatar, we will always choose Saudi Arabia, as we always have, despite all the reasons why we should not. That base? If the Saudis overrun Qatar or just blockade it, you can be sure that both sides will cooperate with the US and not threaten the base in any way. Qatar thought it had bought US protection by building it ... it did not, apparently.
Russia's play is probably that either outcome works for them. They'd probably prefer avoiding hostilities, but would be happy with whatever undermines the US/Qatar relationship short of that. And if came to a Saudi invasion, well, in this context, for Russia, chaos is a ladder.
With regard to Israel, Qatar has been supporting Hamas. This is why Israel is basically happy about this development, it's what Netanyahu has been wanting for years.
So it's bad for Iran, good for Israel (probably not in the long run, but put that aside), and good for Saudi Arabia, who the US is, apparently, joined at the hip with. This all means that when push comes to shove, most everyone in DC is going to break against Qatar.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:57 PM on June 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Is this too conspiratorial? I would appreciate other people's thoughts.
So sorry, but Mefites are very shy and loathe to voice their opinions, especially in these political threads.
And no, you're fine. As we've seen since you asked that, shutting Al Jazeera down is explicitly among Saudi Arabia's demands.
posted by msalt at 10:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
So sorry, but Mefites are very shy and loathe to voice their opinions, especially in these political threads.
And no, you're fine. As we've seen since you asked that, shutting Al Jazeera down is explicitly among Saudi Arabia's demands.
posted by msalt at 10:02 PM on June 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
At what point does state-sponsored hacking become an act of war? Certainly Qatar has some pressing national security issues (allegedly) because of Russia now. That's an overt attack in broad daylight.
posted by ctmf at 10:05 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 10:05 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hmm. I'm not at all sure about that analysis. Saudi Arabia was pointlessly angry at the deal Obama did with Iran over its nuclear weapons program, and the US is even less dependent on Saudi oil than it was then. If this weren't 2017 I would have said that of course the US would forestall an attack on an ally, particularly one that hosts an American base. But the times being what they are, who knows.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:06 PM on June 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whatever is the most dumb and destabilising and has been pushed by whoever fluffed Trump's ego the most recently.
Qatar is fucked. Bannon and Al Queda must be overjoyed.
posted by Artw at 10:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Qatar is fucked. Bannon and Al Queda must be overjoyed.
posted by Artw at 10:10 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think we might actually be in a position where Democrats, at least, would be mostly resistant to supporting a war against Qatar. Loudly, even. The anger over Iraq is still very real, and this looks every bit as dumb as that. Hell, I'd argue it looks dumber. The depths of public mistrust toward the White House are far deeper than they were for Bush in 2000, or for Bush the Elder in '90/'91. (Also, regardless of feelings about the first Gulf War on its own merits, liberating Kuwait was a FAR more justifiable cause than the invasion of Iraq in 2003). I think far more average Americans would hold Democrats' feet to the fire on this.
Is that enough to put off anything? Probably not, no. Not with the GOP in control of both houses and the White House. But at that point I don't see Democrats rushing to shoot themselves in the foot on this one, either.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:15 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
Is that enough to put off anything? Probably not, no. Not with the GOP in control of both houses and the White House. But at that point I don't see Democrats rushing to shoot themselves in the foot on this one, either.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:15 PM on June 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
If people could finally get the whole "destabilizing entire regions = breeding ground for terrorists" thing to sink in it'd be great but I think America is still too dumb to be quite there yet.
posted by Artw at 10:22 PM on June 6, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:22 PM on June 6, 2017 [49 favorites]
As for Democrats? I dunno. Wave some bipartisan bloodshed in front of them and you're going to get at least some suckers. We all know the list.
posted by Artw at 10:23 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:23 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait, we're talking about the USA attacking Qatar now?
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:51 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Attacking, offering logistical support to an attack, offering approval of an attack. Somewhere on that spectrum.
posted by Artw at 10:53 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:53 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm confused too, how did we get to attacking Qatar?!? We have troops stationed there for god's sake.
posted by Justinian at 10:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 10:54 PM on June 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Opposing an attack is certainly nothing we can count on. Quietly using diplomacy to deescalate the situation and avert an attack is of course out of the question because of the Trump related IQ drop.
posted by Artw at 10:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Qatar's a long-term US ally. Of course the US is going to attack it.
The Commander-in-Chief wouldn't even commit to supporting NATO allies under treaty obligations when talking to their face.
posted by Devonian at 10:58 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Commander-in-Chief wouldn't even commit to supporting NATO allies under treaty obligations when talking to their face.
posted by Devonian at 10:58 PM on June 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
You think the GOP is going to resist Putin giving them a set up?
posted by Artw at 10:59 PM on June 6, 2017
posted by Artw at 10:59 PM on June 6, 2017
The Orb traveled back in time and activated to provide this distraction.
posted by Artw at 11:02 PM on June 6, 2017
posted by Artw at 11:02 PM on June 6, 2017
CA-34 update: Ahn has conceded, Gomez has won.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 11:03 PM on June 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
On the other hand, how much is being conned by Russia into backing a really dumb region destabilizing war going to be a distraction from being busted covering up ties to Russia?
posted by Artw at 11:14 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 11:14 PM on June 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Via my local paper, an astonishingly well-timed report on Qatar's alleged support for terrorism, produced by the Counter Extremism Project (a body about which I know nothing and whose reliability I therefore cannot endorse). Anyone know anything about them?
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:32 PM on June 6, 2017
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:32 PM on June 6, 2017
I have a friend in Qatar, she teaches four languages at a girl's school that is strikingly similar to the convent school where she and I were educated. She says that most of the foreign teachers have left, many foreign executives were getting their families and servants out, and that there was already scrambling at grocers to stock up on supplies because closed borders can mean starvation fairly quickly in a country that imports most of its food.
She said there is universal shock amongst everyone at the rapidity at which the world seems to have turned against them, and people already believe the U.S. has abandoned them because the Saudis bribed 45.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:47 PM on June 6, 2017 [111 favorites]
She said there is universal shock amongst everyone at the rapidity at which the world seems to have turned against them, and people already believe the U.S. has abandoned them because the Saudis bribed 45.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:47 PM on June 6, 2017 [111 favorites]
Because I don't want to abuse the edit window, I do think it's important to remember US history in Persia, Palestine, Iraq, Kuwait, and Lebanon. Nobody, not even Israel, really trusts the intentions of the US under the best of conditions,but with an obvious lunatic in the white house, 45 has put 10,000 American forces in the line of fire, along with billions of infrastructure, for no apparent reason or strategic gain.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:56 PM on June 6, 2017 [37 favorites]
A D.C. lobbying firm for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has paid the Trump International Hotel almost $270,000 for lodging, catering, and parking, according to new foreign lobbying disclosures.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
Joe in Australia: If you look at the CEP's leadership page you'll find a substantial number of veterans of the George W. Bush administration, as well as Joe Lieberman. . . Based on who's involved, I think it's probably safe to say that it leans in a neocon direction. They are pretty opaque about who funds them on their web pages (and seemingly beyond that: cf. this article ).
posted by janewman at 12:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by janewman at 12:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Who wants to bet the shooting starts Thursday morning?
What are the stakes?
posted by rhizome at 12:35 AM on June 7, 2017
What are the stakes?
posted by rhizome at 12:35 AM on June 7, 2017
James Clapper is currently in Australia as visiting professor at the Australian National University in Canberra. Today he addressed the National Press Club on the topic "The alliance, global security and our democratic institutions". You can watch it here on ABC TV iView - 56min video, speech followed by questions.
posted by valetta at 12:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by valetta at 12:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Qatar is complicated (wiki - link, but it seems legit enough at this moment of posting)
They probably house and fund terrorists, but so does every other Gulf state, including Saudi Arabia. It's notable that the first terrorists organization everyone mentions in connection with Qatar is always Hamas, who do not commit acts of terror outside of Israel and who many Arabs see as resistance fighters. (I do not agree, but this is an Arab context, and I'm sure Arabs watching this unfold are seeing blatant hypocrisy and the fooling of dumb Americans, not fighting terror).
Also, as I remember it, the reason the US had to move out of SA was that the king couldn't defend the US presence in the country against criticism and possible terror attacks. I'm wondering if this rapid escalation of idiocy in the ME could be the thing that turned enough Republicans against Trump? While some Democrats and many Republican want a war against Iran, for reasons I cannot guess, I can't see how a Saudi attack on Qatar can work for US interests, ever? If you wanted a war on Iran, you'd need Qatar.
Remove Trump quickly and president Pence will at the very least do as the real generals say, without tweeting anything, and the Republicans can get back to granny-starving and tax-lowering.
posted by mumimor at 12:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
They probably house and fund terrorists, but so does every other Gulf state, including Saudi Arabia. It's notable that the first terrorists organization everyone mentions in connection with Qatar is always Hamas, who do not commit acts of terror outside of Israel and who many Arabs see as resistance fighters. (I do not agree, but this is an Arab context, and I'm sure Arabs watching this unfold are seeing blatant hypocrisy and the fooling of dumb Americans, not fighting terror).
Also, as I remember it, the reason the US had to move out of SA was that the king couldn't defend the US presence in the country against criticism and possible terror attacks. I'm wondering if this rapid escalation of idiocy in the ME could be the thing that turned enough Republicans against Trump? While some Democrats and many Republican want a war against Iran, for reasons I cannot guess, I can't see how a Saudi attack on Qatar can work for US interests, ever? If you wanted a war on Iran, you'd need Qatar.
Remove Trump quickly and president Pence will at the very least do as the real generals say, without tweeting anything, and the Republicans can get back to granny-starving and tax-lowering.
posted by mumimor at 12:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Can I put the breaks on this conversation a little and suggest things are way premature to suggest that KSA is going to launch any kind of military action against Qatar? People seem to have jumped to that conclusion straight away based on I'm not sure what evidence. It's just as likely at this stage that the Saudis are trying to isolate and bully Qatar. And its an even more massive jump to suggest that if KSA goes to war with Qatar that the United States will tag in as well. I know these threads are fast moving and people like to shoot the shit and conjecture but the dialogue around whats going on with Qatar seems to have escalated really quickly and I'd suggest we wait for things to actually begin to shake out in the next hours and days before we start catastrophising.
posted by supercrayon at 1:03 AM on June 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 1:03 AM on June 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
Not sure if this has been posted: Top law firms turning down requests to represent Trump.
posted by loquacious at 1:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by loquacious at 1:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
USPTO director Michelle Lee has resigned without warning
posted by PenDevil at 1:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 1:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
I expect Donald is going to do the worst, most batshit insane thing he can do here - which is jump in with a bunch of distraction and rhetoric...however, in this case it may also involve killing people. I know it's a bad idea to catastrophise but um he's an idiot and never does anything diplomatic or helpful.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 1:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 1:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I expect Donald is going to do the worst, most batshit insane thing he can do here - which is jump in with a bunch of distraction and rhetoric
I do too, but I don't think he's focused enough to go into a global conflict at this point, I think he's about to start thrashing wildly against whoever is in front of him, probably Republicans once they start jumping off the sinking ship.
posted by bongo_x at 1:36 AM on June 7, 2017
I do too, but I don't think he's focused enough to go into a global conflict at this point, I think he's about to start thrashing wildly against whoever is in front of him, probably Republicans once they start jumping off the sinking ship.
posted by bongo_x at 1:36 AM on June 7, 2017
USPTO director Michelle Lee has resigned without warning
Oh god. Stupid ass software patents are somehow going to manage to get even worse.
posted by Artw at 1:39 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh god. Stupid ass software patents are somehow going to manage to get even worse.
posted by Artw at 1:39 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I agree that KSA invading Qatar is a stretch, but the KSA has been flexing its military muscles in the region recently. Qatar is a big thorn in its side during a period when the proxy wars with Iran have been heating up and, in particular, KSA is dealing with Yemen and the coalition just kicked Qatar out of its involvement there.
There's little chance of the US doing anything like the first Gulf War -- that is, being involved in an operation against Qatar. But it could certainly take the position it claimed to take with Iraq and Kuwait, that it's not our business. And, again, I'm certain that both sides would guarantee the integrity of the US base. Now, granted, Trump may be thinking that somehow this is an opportunity for the tail to wag the dog and, indeed, this may be something he's been thinking about. But he'd be resisted by basically everyone, most especially the Pentagon.
But he obviously had discussed his stance with regard to Qatar with no one before he tweeted about it so... I guess the problem here is, as has been the case with Trump, is that he's an idiot, he's impulsive, he's ignorant, and he really likes being the boss. It's entirely possible for him to order a military involvement that is against the US's interests and against the strong disapproval of the Pentagon. Of course it's possible. Anything is possible with this guy. But I don't think it's that likely.
Most likely is that the US goes along with Qatar being blockaded and isolated and, eventually, pressured to do whatever KSA wants it to do. Less likely, but not entirely unlikely, is that the KSA will take military action against Qatar, and the US will stay out of it. Least likely is a war against Qatar that involves the US. So, yeah, I agree that discussing that third possibility is premature and alarmist. But you have to admit that the US has a history of unwise foreign military involvements and Trump is a myopic wannabe strong man.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:49 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's little chance of the US doing anything like the first Gulf War -- that is, being involved in an operation against Qatar. But it could certainly take the position it claimed to take with Iraq and Kuwait, that it's not our business. And, again, I'm certain that both sides would guarantee the integrity of the US base. Now, granted, Trump may be thinking that somehow this is an opportunity for the tail to wag the dog and, indeed, this may be something he's been thinking about. But he'd be resisted by basically everyone, most especially the Pentagon.
But he obviously had discussed his stance with regard to Qatar with no one before he tweeted about it so... I guess the problem here is, as has been the case with Trump, is that he's an idiot, he's impulsive, he's ignorant, and he really likes being the boss. It's entirely possible for him to order a military involvement that is against the US's interests and against the strong disapproval of the Pentagon. Of course it's possible. Anything is possible with this guy. But I don't think it's that likely.
Most likely is that the US goes along with Qatar being blockaded and isolated and, eventually, pressured to do whatever KSA wants it to do. Less likely, but not entirely unlikely, is that the KSA will take military action against Qatar, and the US will stay out of it. Least likely is a war against Qatar that involves the US. So, yeah, I agree that discussing that third possibility is premature and alarmist. But you have to admit that the US has a history of unwise foreign military involvements and Trump is a myopic wannabe strong man.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:49 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Gunmen attack Iranian parliament and Khomeini shrine in Tehran
Unconfirmed reports that seven killed in attack on parliament while five injured at shrine to late leader, according to news agencies
posted by XMLicious at 1:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Unconfirmed reports that seven killed in attack on parliament while five injured at shrine to late leader, according to news agencies
posted by XMLicious at 1:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Interesting... timing...
posted by Artw at 1:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah. And, also, that's really going to confuse Trump.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:59 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:59 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
"The country that I back... backs the terrorist group... that just attacked the country I am against... so that terrorist group is good?"
posted by Artw at 2:01 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:01 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Mr. President, that terrorist group is probably ISIS."
"That doesn't make sense. You're wrong. Jared, who should we bomb? Tell me it's Iran, I'd really like to bomb Iran."
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:07 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
"That doesn't make sense. You're wrong. Jared, who should we bomb? Tell me it's Iran, I'd really like to bomb Iran."
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:07 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Turkey has arrested the head of Turkey's Amnesty International I mean I don't know what's going on here and if this has any relation to things going to hell but it doesn't seem to be a cheery development.
posted by angrycat at 2:10 AM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 2:10 AM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
There's got to be US military officers who are perplexed by this, maybe even some in Qatar. I hope some of them come out with why it's an astonishingly bad idea to threaten a country that's hosting your military base.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:12 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:12 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
US Congress calls for charges over Turkey embassy brawl (bbc)
posted by Mister Bijou at 2:26 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mister Bijou at 2:26 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
From yesterday:
IS Propaganda Increasingly Targeting Iran And Its Sunnis
Could be linked to Saudi attempts to sway the US, could be separate.
posted by Artw at 2:34 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
IS Propaganda Increasingly Targeting Iran And Its Sunnis
Could be linked to Saudi attempts to sway the US, could be separate.
posted by Artw at 2:34 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
NYT: ISIS claims responsibility for the Iran attacks.
posted by angrycat at 2:47 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 2:47 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sunni extremists on rampage (again)...
posted by Mister Bijou at 2:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attacks on its Amaq news agency.Several dead in suicide attacks on Iranian parliament and shrine in Tehran (Graunaid)
Shia Iran has been singled out as a target by Sunni jihadis, including Isis, but has largely escaped attacks within its urban centres. Iran provides ground forces to fight Isis and other rebel groups in Syria and Iraq.
Isis published a rare video in Persian in March, warning that it “will conquer Iran and restore it to the Sunni Muslim nation as it was before”. The group and other extremists consider Shias to be apostates, and the video accuses Iranians of persecuting Sunnis over the centuries.
posted by Mister Bijou at 2:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Angrycat- link for ISIS claiming credit?
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:50 AM on June 7, 2017
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:50 AM on June 7, 2017
Watergate ‘pales’ in comparison: Ex-DNI Clapper drops a truth bomb on Trump-Russia scandal (Elizabeth Preza, RS)
“I lived through Watergate,” Clapper said of the multiple scandals engulfing the Trump administration. “It was a scary time, I have to say though that I think, you know, compare the two, that Watergate pales in my view compared to what we’re confronting now.”posted by Room 641-A at 4:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
As The Guardian Australia’s Paul Karp noted, Clapper did not end his criticism of Trump there (“shirtfronting” is Australian slang for charging at one’s opponent):
Clapper is absolutely shirtfronting Trump at #NPC #auspol pic.twitter.com/avN2VxKlOR
— Paul Karp (@Paul_Karp) June 7, 2017
Last month, Clapper argued the United States is “under assault” by Trump, telling CNN’s Jake Tapper that between Russian interference and the president, out institutions are at risk.
Meanwhile the secret courts have started. The remote LaSalle detention facility is part of Trump’s attempt to fast-track deportations.
The private detention center, which incarcerates more than 1,100 men and women has the highest number of prisoner deaths of any in America over the past two years.
posted by adamvasco at 4:40 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
The private detention center, which incarcerates more than 1,100 men and women has the highest number of prisoner deaths of any in America over the past two years.
posted by adamvasco at 4:40 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Are they “prisoners” or are they instead “detainees” or some other creepy neologism designed to sidestep the rights that prisoners were found to have?
posted by acb at 4:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by acb at 4:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
The FBI Director nominee is Christopher Wray. Wray was Chris Christie's personal attorney.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
Is Wray another example of Trump dumping on Christie or did Christie put Wray's name forward?
posted by PenDevil at 5:05 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by PenDevil at 5:05 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Are they “prisoners” or are they instead “detainees” or some other creepy neologism designed to sidestep the rights that prisoners were found to have?
From the Guardian article: In US immigration courts, respondents have no right to a public attorney as the proceedings are administrative and not criminal. Those without representation, recent statistical analysis shows, are far more likely to be removed from the US than comparable cases where a lawyer is assigned.
posted by stonepharisee at 5:09 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
From the Guardian article: In US immigration courts, respondents have no right to a public attorney as the proceedings are administrative and not criminal. Those without representation, recent statistical analysis shows, are far more likely to be removed from the US than comparable cases where a lawyer is assigned.
posted by stonepharisee at 5:09 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
will conquer Iran and restore it to the Sunni Muslim nation as it was before
Is this as completely ahistorical as I suspect?
posted by leotrotsky at 5:28 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Is this as completely ahistorical as I suspect?
posted by leotrotsky at 5:28 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Chris Wallace and Shep occasionally do or say the (kinda) right thing, but I haven't seen it from Cavuto before.
Fox host to Trump: ‘Fake news media’ isn’t the issue, it’s you
Fox host to Trump: ‘Fake news media’ isn’t the issue, it’s you
Fox News host Neil Cavuto on Tuesday hit President Trump for his criticism of media outlets' coverage of his Twitter habits.posted by chris24 at 5:29 AM on June 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
“Mr. President, it’s not the fake news media that’s your problem,” he said on Fox. “It’s you. It’s not just your tweeting, it’s your scapegoating. It’s your refusal to see that sometimes you’re the one who’s feeding your own beast and acting beastly with your own guys.
“Look at the critiques you’re now hearing from usually friendly and supportive allies as sort of like an intervention. Because firing off these angry missives and tweets risks your political discussion.”
Russia seems to be playing both sides in the middle east... Allying with Iran in Syria and then setting up Qatar by spreading fake news that they're... allied with Iran?
I don't get it. What are they trying to so?
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:34 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't get it. What are they trying to so?
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:34 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't get it. What are they trying to so?
Stir the pot?
posted by drezdn at 5:36 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Stir the pot?
posted by drezdn at 5:36 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
I don't get it. What are they trying to so?
Undermine all other governments and alliances. Test and perfect their low cost disinformation weapons. Create chaos and thus generate opportunities.
posted by rc3spencer at 5:37 AM on June 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
Undermine all other governments and alliances. Test and perfect their low cost disinformation weapons. Create chaos and thus generate opportunities.
posted by rc3spencer at 5:37 AM on June 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
completely ahistorical
Not if 680 CE is your baseline.
posted by spitbull at 5:38 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Not if 680 CE is your baseline.
posted by spitbull at 5:38 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
I wouldn't be shocked if Russia was trying to start more active conflicts in the Middle East, trying to draw the US in, to distract from Russian movements in Ukraine and ???
posted by drezdn at 5:38 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 5:38 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Daily Beast: Michael Flynn Had a Plan to Work With Russia’s Military. It Wasn’t Exactly Legal.
posted by mumimor at 5:39 AM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 5:39 AM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Russia seems to be playing both sides in the middle east... Allying with Iran in Syria and then setting up Qatar by spreading fake news that they're... allied with Iran?
I don't get it. What are they trying to so?
Just guessing: get the US out of Qatar, force Qatar to get even more cosy with Iran, in the most far out event, get an Iranian (and thus Russia-friendly) foothold on the west side of the Gulf. That would be crazy and have crazy consequences but after Trump was elected and proceeded to do crazy stuff every single day, who knows?
posted by mumimor at 5:45 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't get it. What are they trying to so?
Just guessing: get the US out of Qatar, force Qatar to get even more cosy with Iran, in the most far out event, get an Iranian (and thus Russia-friendly) foothold on the west side of the Gulf. That would be crazy and have crazy consequences but after Trump was elected and proceeded to do crazy stuff every single day, who knows?
posted by mumimor at 5:45 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wray's name is all over the ACLU's torture archive, he was central to the Valerie Plane affair, was in charge at DOJ during the height of the political hiring scandal, and his law firm advises the TrumpOrg sham "trust". He's a horrible pick with just enough of a "serious" reputation from his role in prosecuting Enron to draw Democratic votes.
I expect him to report directly to Trump and be an utter yes man. The FBIs Russia investigation ends with his confirmation.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [59 favorites]
I expect him to report directly to Trump and be an utter yes man. The FBIs Russia investigation ends with his confirmation.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [59 favorites]
I don't get it. What are they trying to do?
War in the Middle East would raise the price of oil, Russia's top export.
posted by Andrhia at 5:49 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
War in the Middle East would raise the price of oil, Russia's top export.
posted by Andrhia at 5:49 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
How can it be OK for Trump to appoint an FBI director in the current situation? Even if he appointed the ghost of Abraham Lincoln, no one would believe there wasn't a hidden deal with that ghost.
posted by mumimor at 5:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [69 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 5:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [69 favorites]
Also, undermining the ideology of liberalism and human rights, in favour of Russia's Hobbesian ideology of power without euphemism. (If the US, on paper the light on the hill of the post-Enlightenment order, declares its shared values with Saudi Arabia, the Enlightenment itself can be argued to have been a failed experiment which, in the end, amounted to nothing more than a layer of hypocrisy over the reality of power.)
Putinist Russia's biggest ideological export (replacing the Marxism-Leninism of the Soviet era, and using some of the propaganda apparatus developed then) is the Reverse Cargo Cult; yes, Russia's a corrupt kleptocracy where institutions and the rule of law are a sham and only power is real, but that's the case everywhere.
posted by acb at 5:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Putinist Russia's biggest ideological export (replacing the Marxism-Leninism of the Soviet era, and using some of the propaganda apparatus developed then) is the Reverse Cargo Cult; yes, Russia's a corrupt kleptocracy where institutions and the rule of law are a sham and only power is real, but that's the case everywhere.
posted by acb at 5:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Marina Fang / HuffPo: Donald Trump May Find Time To Live-Tweet James Comey’s Testimony
'May', in spite of being scheduled to give a speech during the testimony.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:07 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
'May', in spite of being scheduled to give a speech during the testimony.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:07 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
How can it be OK for Trump to appoint an FBI director in the current situation?
As always, the answer is because every single
Republican is an active participant in the cover up.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:09 AM on June 7, 2017 [46 favorites]
As always, the answer is because every single
Republican is an active participant in the cover up.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:09 AM on June 7, 2017 [46 favorites]
If Comey told Sessions about Trumo, does that make Sessions complicit in any way? A witness for the prosecution?
Also, Stephanie Ruehl, MSNBC, on the appointment of Wray on this day: Do you think it's a coincidence? I couldn't possibly cover two stories at once!
posted by Room 641-A at 6:11 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, Stephanie Ruehl, MSNBC, on the appointment of Wray on this day: Do you think it's a coincidence? I couldn't possibly cover two stories at once!
posted by Room 641-A at 6:11 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wish I could understand Putin's calculus a little better.
Is he just trying to destroy our alliances? Someone commented to me a while ago that an attack on the Baltics while NATO sat back and watched would be the end of NATO, and that this might be want Putin actually has in mind in Lithuania.
Is he trying to make us choose between Saudi Arabia and Qatar, ending one alliance or the other? And making ALL our allies trust us less?
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:11 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is he just trying to destroy our alliances? Someone commented to me a while ago that an attack on the Baltics while NATO sat back and watched would be the end of NATO, and that this might be want Putin actually has in mind in Lithuania.
Is he trying to make us choose between Saudi Arabia and Qatar, ending one alliance or the other? And making ALL our allies trust us less?
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:11 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Reuters Turkey to fast track legislation approving troop deployment in Qatar - officials
Turkey's parliament is expected to fast track on Wednesday existing legislation to allow its troops to be deployed to a Turkish military base in Qatar, officials from the ruling AK Party and the nationalist opposition said.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:16 AM on June 7, 2017
The move appears to support the Gulf Arab country when it faces diplomatic and trade isolation from some of the biggest Middle Eastern powers. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Bahrain severed relations with Qatar and closed their airspace to commercial flights on Monday, charging it with financing militant groups.
BTW, Danish PM Lars Løkke is meeting with Macron today and stating that we need to fight for the Paris Agreement and yesterday the Danish Crown Princess Mary met with Mme Macron. This is a historic reversal of Danish politics — not once since WW2 has Denmark sided with France, regardless of wether the Danish government was socialist or conservative. Denmark is a tiny country but still significant because it controls Greenland's defense and also can surveil Russian activities in the Baltic. I'd like to say control, because no one gets out of the Baltic without passing through Denmark, but unfortunately that probably just means Denmark will be bombed out of existence on the first day of war.
Danish pundits are noting that the Danish Foreign Ministry must have thrown in their requests for private meetings first thing after Macron was elected, in order to get access so early in Macron's presidency. Also both the PM, the Minster of Defense and the Minister of Foreign affairs have come out to say publicly that Trump is unpredictable and pr. extension unreliable. These are all far right politicians who normally support Republican positions and I am stunned. Something really strange is out there now.
posted by mumimor at 6:18 AM on June 7, 2017 [36 favorites]
Danish pundits are noting that the Danish Foreign Ministry must have thrown in their requests for private meetings first thing after Macron was elected, in order to get access so early in Macron's presidency. Also both the PM, the Minster of Defense and the Minister of Foreign affairs have come out to say publicly that Trump is unpredictable and pr. extension unreliable. These are all far right politicians who normally support Republican positions and I am stunned. Something really strange is out there now.
posted by mumimor at 6:18 AM on June 7, 2017 [36 favorites]
I wish I could understand Putin's calculus a little better.
An early post in this thread noted a Kottke post on Putin’s playbook for discrediting America and destabilizing the West which noted that it was an actual book.
The wiki page for this book, Foundations of Geopolitics, reads like a checklist. The overall pattern seems to be divide, distract, and conquer.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:19 AM on June 7, 2017 [39 favorites]
An early post in this thread noted a Kottke post on Putin’s playbook for discrediting America and destabilizing the West which noted that it was an actual book.
The wiki page for this book, Foundations of Geopolitics, reads like a checklist. The overall pattern seems to be divide, distract, and conquer.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:19 AM on June 7, 2017 [39 favorites]
If Comey told Sessions about Trumo, does that make Sessions complicit in any way? A witness for the prosecution?
That's the thing, every conversation with Trump now makes one a potential witness. I have to imagine he's not getting many calls from "friends" these days -- who the hell actively wants to be subpoenaed by Mueller or Congress to testify under oath about their conversations with him?
posted by melissasaurus at 6:21 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's the thing, every conversation with Trump now makes one a potential witness. I have to imagine he's not getting many calls from "friends" these days -- who the hell actively wants to be subpoenaed by Mueller or Congress to testify under oath about their conversations with him?
posted by melissasaurus at 6:21 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wray's law firm, King and Spalding, took on Rosneft as a client last year for unspecified consultation work relating to natural gas projects. Because of course they did. He also met with Trump on the same day the President demanded Comey's personal loyalty. Because of course he did. [both real]
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:26 AM on June 7, 2017 [76 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:26 AM on June 7, 2017 [76 favorites]
It's all right out in the open. And Republicans will do nothing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:29 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:29 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
“We Have Always Been At War Alongside Russia”
posted by acb at 6:31 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by acb at 6:31 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Whoopsie! Wray's Law Firm Last Year took on Rosneft as a client.
Heavy: Christopher Wray: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:31 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Heavy: Christopher Wray: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Other Trump administration critics are pointing to the fact that King & Spalding represents Rosneft, a Russian state-owned oil company. It does not appear that Wray had any role in the firm’s work with the oil company, which was mentioned in the leaked Christopher Steele dossier as possibly being involved in coordination with former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.Just a coincidence, right? Because apparently everyone in Washington, DC and NYC has worked for or come into contact with the Russians in some capacity.
King & Spalding is a large firm with more than 900 attorneys. Its work with Rosneft appears to be handled by its Moscow office and its partner Jennifer Josefson, while Wray has worked in Atlanta and Washington D.C., representing American companies and clients.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:31 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Is this as completely ahistorical as I suspect?
Not really. Prior to the Safavids conquering Persia and declare Shia the state religion in 1501, Iran was technically a Sunni country. If you want Iran getting back to its roots though you really need to go full Zoroastrianism.
posted by Talez at 6:33 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Not really. Prior to the Safavids conquering Persia and declare Shia the state religion in 1501, Iran was technically a Sunni country. If you want Iran getting back to its roots though you really need to go full Zoroastrianism.
posted by Talez at 6:33 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Wrey's firm was also hired to be lobbyists for Saudi Arabia.
The Hill 10/03/16 Saudi Arabia hires 10th lobby firm
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:39 AM on June 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
The Hill 10/03/16 Saudi Arabia hires 10th lobby firm
The Saudis have hired King & Spalding to provide “advocacy and legal services” related to the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act, according to a contract filed with the Justice Department. It’s the fifth firm to be hired by the country in recent weeks.[...]Anybody else running out of yarn for their forensic wall?
Unlike the other firms, King & Spalding inked its contract through Saudi Arabia’s Ministry of Commerce and Investment. The agreement does not discuss fees or the duration of the work, saying those details were still being worked out.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:39 AM on June 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
The wiki page for this book, Foundations of Geopolitics, reads like a checklist. The overall pattern seems to be divide, distract, and conquer.
If that's an accurate interpretation of the book I'd say everything is going along to Russia/ Putin's plan. The big question is how do the small wars that involve annexation of countries back to Russia and upheaval in the Arab countries not drag the rest of the world into war?
posted by photoslob at 6:41 AM on June 7, 2017
If that's an accurate interpretation of the book I'd say everything is going along to Russia/ Putin's plan. The big question is how do the small wars that involve annexation of countries back to Russia and upheaval in the Arab countries not drag the rest of the world into war?
posted by photoslob at 6:41 AM on June 7, 2017
Ha, well that's the trick.
posted by Artw at 6:42 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:42 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Vox: 3 senior FBI officials can vouch for Comey’s story about Trump: One by one this winter, then-FBI Director James B. Comey pulled aside three of the bureau’s top officials for private chats. In calm tones, he told each of them about a private Oval Office meeting with President Trump — during which, Comey alleged, the president pressed him to shut down the federal criminal investigation of Trump’s then-national security adviser, Michael Flynn.
Those three officials, according to two people with detailed, firsthand knowledge of the matter, were Jim Rybicki, Comey’s chief of staff and senior counselor; James Baker, the FBI’s general counsel; and Andrew McCabe, then the bureau’s deputy director, and now the acting director, following Trump’s firing of Comey last month. Comey spoke to them within two days of his Oval conversation with Trump, the sources said, and recounted the president’s comments about the Flynn investigation.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
Those three officials, according to two people with detailed, firsthand knowledge of the matter, were Jim Rybicki, Comey’s chief of staff and senior counselor; James Baker, the FBI’s general counsel; and Andrew McCabe, then the bureau’s deputy director, and now the acting director, following Trump’s firing of Comey last month. Comey spoke to them within two days of his Oval conversation with Trump, the sources said, and recounted the president’s comments about the Flynn investigation.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
Oh, hey, I'd forgotten that Qatar is supposed to host the World Cup in 2022. (Russia hosts next year.)
Because the only thing that could make this stupider and/or more crooked is FIFA.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:45 AM on June 7, 2017 [63 favorites]
Because the only thing that could make this stupider and/or more crooked is FIFA.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:45 AM on June 7, 2017 [63 favorites]
More on Wray from Ryan J. Reilly:
posted by zombieflanders at 6:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Christopher Wray’s name comes up in a DOJ watchdog report on politicized hiring during the Bush administrationThis means he worked with the absolutely vile Hans von Spakovsky, racist thug and voter suppression weasel. No thanks.
Wray was involved in Bush-era voter fraud crackdown, which didn’t turn up much. Could face questions on Trump claims
posted by zombieflanders at 6:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
The NSA hearing is scheduled to start at 10am.
Here's the CSPAN link.
Here's a link to Chat for liveblogging/reaction-type comments. Try to keep content in this thread a bit more substantive or at least combine multiple quotes/reactions into one comment; consider waiting to post until there's video of the exchange at issue (via twitter or wherever).
Here's a Metatalk where people are discussing, among other things, how to handle these types of events and self-moderate to provide a better experience for everyone, mods included.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [44 favorites]
Here's the CSPAN link.
Here's a link to Chat for liveblogging/reaction-type comments. Try to keep content in this thread a bit more substantive or at least combine multiple quotes/reactions into one comment; consider waiting to post until there's video of the exchange at issue (via twitter or wherever).
Here's a Metatalk where people are discussing, among other things, how to handle these types of events and self-moderate to provide a better experience for everyone, mods included.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [44 favorites]
An early post in this thread noted a Kottke post on Putin’s playbook for discrediting America and destabilizing the West which noted that it was an actual book.
That is worrisome, but he's also cherry-picking a bit. The wiki page also list items like absorbing Finland into Russia, which seems pretty unlikely and a "continental Russian-Islamic alliance" based on the "traditional character of Russian and Islamic civilization", which, given the fractures in the Islamic world is simply impossible.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
That is worrisome, but he's also cherry-picking a bit. The wiki page also list items like absorbing Finland into Russia, which seems pretty unlikely and a "continental Russian-Islamic alliance" based on the "traditional character of Russian and Islamic civilization", which, given the fractures in the Islamic world is simply impossible.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
> The big question is how do the small wars that involve annexation of countries back to Russia and upheaval in the Arab countries not drag the rest of the world into war?
Is that the question? Plunging the rest world into war when the US is effectively out of the fight gives Russia a huge advantage.
The US has always had to fight an isolationist bent on the far-right, and some could take Hillary Clinton's loss as a rejection of centrist to central-left warhawks. The far-left anti-war contingent is against the entire concept of war. The US President has traditionally been the one to lead us into wars or "military actions", and with that individual apparently in Putin's pocket and incapable of understanding subtleties of geopolitics, I don't know that a world war would necessarily involve the US.
Shit, Russia already annexed Crimea (under Obama) and we did approximately nothing. Arguably the smarter move at the time, but part of that was the assumption that the next US President wasn't Putin's puppet.
posted by fragmede at 7:00 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is that the question? Plunging the rest world into war when the US is effectively out of the fight gives Russia a huge advantage.
The US has always had to fight an isolationist bent on the far-right, and some could take Hillary Clinton's loss as a rejection of centrist to central-left warhawks. The far-left anti-war contingent is against the entire concept of war. The US President has traditionally been the one to lead us into wars or "military actions", and with that individual apparently in Putin's pocket and incapable of understanding subtleties of geopolitics, I don't know that a world war would necessarily involve the US.
Shit, Russia already annexed Crimea (under Obama) and we did approximately nothing. Arguably the smarter move at the time, but part of that was the assumption that the next US President wasn't Putin's puppet.
posted by fragmede at 7:00 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
the Washington Post also has a live stream on YouTube if the CSPAN link isn't working for you (it's not for me)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:01 AM on June 7, 2017
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:01 AM on June 7, 2017
He's a horrible pick with just enough of a "serious" reputation from his role in prosecuting Enron to draw Democratic votes.
This line about his "seriousness" is being picked up in the media already: Trump Makes His Choice for FBI Director, and Knowledgeable People Aren’t Horrified (Slate) This is Team Trump's Gorsuch strategy all over again.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:01 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
This line about his "seriousness" is being picked up in the media already: Trump Makes His Choice for FBI Director, and Knowledgeable People Aren’t Horrified (Slate) This is Team Trump's Gorsuch strategy all over again.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:01 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Wray would've been much better qualified to be Trump's outside defense counsel than FBI director.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
3 senior FBI officials can vouch for Comey’s story about Trump
Well, not quite. They cannot vouch for what was said in the private meeting. They can vouch for what Comey told them after. They can only give hearsay as to what was said in the first meeting. That Comey gave immediate reports to others is going to carry a lot of suggestive weight, obviously. The three can vouch for 'this is what Comey told me', but they cannot vouch for 'what Comey said is true'.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, not quite. They cannot vouch for what was said in the private meeting. They can vouch for what Comey told them after. They can only give hearsay as to what was said in the first meeting. That Comey gave immediate reports to others is going to carry a lot of suggestive weight, obviously. The three can vouch for 'this is what Comey told me', but they cannot vouch for 'what Comey said is true'.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
anyone else listening to the senate intel committee hearing?
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 7:03 AM on June 7, 2017
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 7:03 AM on June 7, 2017
photoslob The big question is how do the small wars that involve annexation of countries back to Russia and upheaval in the Arab countries not drag the rest of the world into war?
I suspect dragging the rest of the world into war is part of Putin's agenda.
I also suspect that Putin isn't near the puppetmaster/planner that he presents himself as and possibly imagines himself to be. There's too damn many variables for anyone to really be sitting back, stroking their white Persian cat, and declaring that all is going according to plan.
What Putin is mainly doing, I strongly suspect, is sowing chaos and stirring the pot on the not unreasonable assumption that chaos and pot stirring will cause more harm to the USA, NATO, and the other serious challengers to Russian power than it will cause to Russia. I bet he subscribes to the chaos is a ladder theory, and sees himself as best positioned to climb that ladder.
The Qatar thing is a good example. What will happen is anyone's guess, but regardless of what happens the US will be weakened, trust in the US will degrade, and possibly the price of oil will go up.
I think Putin views the chaos, distrust, and general shit stirring as a sort of Xanatos Gambit: no matter what happens he thinks Russia will emerge stronger and its rivals will emerge weaker.
He's also using weapons that can't be easily turned against him so he's probably feeling pretty smug and safe regardless. He's dependent on a cult of personality in Russia, so in theory it might be possible to target him with a disinformation campaign, revelations of embarrassing things, and so forth, but Russia has some pretty hardcore press controls in place and cults of personality are distressingly resilient to attacks of that nature anyway. Mostly Putin's style of attack works best on democracies, and Russia doesn't count as one of those anymore.
posted by sotonohito at 7:09 AM on June 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
I suspect dragging the rest of the world into war is part of Putin's agenda.
I also suspect that Putin isn't near the puppetmaster/planner that he presents himself as and possibly imagines himself to be. There's too damn many variables for anyone to really be sitting back, stroking their white Persian cat, and declaring that all is going according to plan.
What Putin is mainly doing, I strongly suspect, is sowing chaos and stirring the pot on the not unreasonable assumption that chaos and pot stirring will cause more harm to the USA, NATO, and the other serious challengers to Russian power than it will cause to Russia. I bet he subscribes to the chaos is a ladder theory, and sees himself as best positioned to climb that ladder.
The Qatar thing is a good example. What will happen is anyone's guess, but regardless of what happens the US will be weakened, trust in the US will degrade, and possibly the price of oil will go up.
I think Putin views the chaos, distrust, and general shit stirring as a sort of Xanatos Gambit: no matter what happens he thinks Russia will emerge stronger and its rivals will emerge weaker.
He's also using weapons that can't be easily turned against him so he's probably feeling pretty smug and safe regardless. He's dependent on a cult of personality in Russia, so in theory it might be possible to target him with a disinformation campaign, revelations of embarrassing things, and so forth, but Russia has some pretty hardcore press controls in place and cults of personality are distressingly resilient to attacks of that nature anyway. Mostly Putin's style of attack works best on democracies, and Russia doesn't count as one of those anymore.
posted by sotonohito at 7:09 AM on June 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
Dana Milbank, WaPo: 'President Pence’ is sounding better and better
John Nance Garner, one of Franklin D. Roosevelt’s vice presidents, famously compared the office to “a bucket of warm piss.” For Pence, the vice presidency is a bucket of Clorox and a mop.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:11 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
[…]
Many liberals correctly call Pence a doctrinaire conservative, particularly on gay rights and other social issues. He’ll be forever tarnished because of his role in legitimizing Trump for mainstream conservatives, a calculation based on the vain hope that he could influence Trump. He has embarrassed himself in office by parroting Trump’s untruths and cheerleading for the boss.
But Pence is, at core, a small-d democrat, not a demagogue. The world would be safer with him in charge. We would still have fierce divisions about the nation’s direction. But Pence, in the nearly two decades I’ve known him, has been an honorable man. Opponents can disagree with him yet sleep well knowing he’s unlikely to be irrational.
Procedurally, if all the Republican-controlled Congress does is ask Mr. Comey softball or unrelated questions, possibly about Hillary Clinton's emails and their relation with the Russians, is there any recourse? Comey is being questioned in relation to Trump trying to bury the FBI's investigation, but Trump would naturally try to derail this investigation, too.
If Trump's leaned on GOP-controlled Congress, who were all to happy to go along with his other plans, and they play along, ask a couple of nothing burger questions, and decide there's nothing to investigate, then where are we?
posted by fragmede at 7:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
If Trump's leaned on GOP-controlled Congress, who were all to happy to go along with his other plans, and they play along, ask a couple of nothing burger questions, and decide there's nothing to investigate, then where are we?
posted by fragmede at 7:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
All the members of the committee get to ask questions, not just the Republicans.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:14 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:14 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
But Pence, in the nearly two decades I’ve known him, has been an honorable man.
Regardless of what he used to be, he is now actively working with this abominable administration. He can not be called honorable, ever ever again.
He is dishonorable, he is complicit, he is a likely traitor and criminal. He needs to hang with the rest of them.
posted by jammer at 7:21 AM on June 7, 2017 [47 favorites]
Regardless of what he used to be, he is now actively working with this abominable administration. He can not be called honorable, ever ever again.
He is dishonorable, he is complicit, he is a likely traitor and criminal. He needs to hang with the rest of them.
posted by jammer at 7:21 AM on June 7, 2017 [47 favorites]
He is dishonorable, he is complicit, he is a likely traitor and criminal. He needs to hang with the rest of them.
So President Ryan then.
posted by scalefree at 7:27 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
So President Ryan then.
posted by scalefree at 7:27 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pence is lawful evil, and it's not that being lawful evil is "better" than chaotic evil, but at least you have a better chance at knowing when/where you have to fight.
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:29 AM on June 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:29 AM on June 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
Regardless of what he used to be, he is now actively working with this abominable administration. He can not be called honorable, ever ever again.
You could make the same argument with Gen. Mattis. There's a shitty calculus that you have to do when a sociopath has access to nuclear weapons and you're potentially in a position to prevent him from doing something catastrophic.
We still don't know exactly what's going on behind closed doors. It will likely come out in the wash during the investigation, but there's a chance that Mike Pence is doing what he's doing because he feels some duty to his country.
And remember, I'm a Hoosier, and I can't fucking stand Mike Pence.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:31 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
You could make the same argument with Gen. Mattis. There's a shitty calculus that you have to do when a sociopath has access to nuclear weapons and you're potentially in a position to prevent him from doing something catastrophic.
We still don't know exactly what's going on behind closed doors. It will likely come out in the wash during the investigation, but there's a chance that Mike Pence is doing what he's doing because he feels some duty to his country.
And remember, I'm a Hoosier, and I can't fucking stand Mike Pence.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:31 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
The crux of it is that anything Pence might do, while terrible, is a thing that can be reversed someday when someone else comes to power. Trump is an existential threat to life on earth and the foundations of American government.
posted by something something at 7:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by something something at 7:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [62 favorites]
But Pence, in the nearly two decades I’ve known him, has been an honorable man. Opponents can disagree with him yet sleep well knowing he’s unlikely to be irrational.
As a woman, reading words like these will never stop being a breathtaking punch in the gut.
There is nothing rational about his religious extremism and nothing honorable about the things he would do to women under its auspices.
posted by jesourie at 7:38 AM on June 7, 2017 [176 favorites]
As a woman, reading words like these will never stop being a breathtaking punch in the gut.
There is nothing rational about his religious extremism and nothing honorable about the things he would do to women under its auspices.
posted by jesourie at 7:38 AM on June 7, 2017 [176 favorites]
I'll clarify. Mike Pence is dumb. He's got awful beliefs on social issues. He is complicit in getting Trump elected.
But he's also not picking fights with our allies or putting 10,000 troops in Qatar at risk because he wants to look like a big man.
His actions since taking office have been been to moderate Trump's insane comments or to soothe relations with our allies.
Politically, he's a bad guy. But there's a lot worse things out there.
Take W. W was a bad President. But there's so much worse things than being a bad President.
Trump is completely fucking INSANE. He cares about NOTHING but his incredibly fragile ego, and that ego is under constant assault since he took office. Is there any terrible action that he could take tomorrow that would surprise you?
Now take Mike Pence. Can you say the same thing? There's a whole swathe of insane shit that I'm pretty confident Mike Pence wouldn't do on the international stage, re: NATO, re: Qatar, etc...
posted by leotrotsky at 7:38 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
But he's also not picking fights with our allies or putting 10,000 troops in Qatar at risk because he wants to look like a big man.
His actions since taking office have been been to moderate Trump's insane comments or to soothe relations with our allies.
Politically, he's a bad guy. But there's a lot worse things out there.
Take W. W was a bad President. But there's so much worse things than being a bad President.
Trump is completely fucking INSANE. He cares about NOTHING but his incredibly fragile ego, and that ego is under constant assault since he took office. Is there any terrible action that he could take tomorrow that would surprise you?
Now take Mike Pence. Can you say the same thing? There's a whole swathe of insane shit that I'm pretty confident Mike Pence wouldn't do on the international stage, re: NATO, re: Qatar, etc...
posted by leotrotsky at 7:38 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
So, it's a rather-cancer-than-ebola situation?
posted by acb at 7:39 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by acb at 7:39 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
There is nothing rational about his religious extremism and nothing honorable about the things he would do to women under its auspices.
While true, I, as a woman who needs contraceptive care, would prefer not to die in a nuclear holocaust, which I fear we are running rapidly towards. Bring on Pence.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [32 favorites]
While true, I, as a woman who needs contraceptive care, would prefer not to die in a nuclear holocaust, which I fear we are running rapidly towards. Bring on Pence.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [32 favorites]
Trump wants to start charging stores to accept food stamps [Ylan Mui, CNBC]
posted by melissasaurus at 7:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [49 favorites]
That provision is a new fee that the White House wants to charge retailers that accept food stamps, which is now known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program.(note that this is unpopular and unlikely to happen, but something to keep an eye on because it's exactly the kind of Ryan-esque BS that could get slipped into a bill as a revenue raiser)
The Office of Management and Budget said the fee would be assessed when stores sign up and would require renewal after five years. The budget office said the amount would depend on the size and type of retailer, but the president's budget estimates that the fee would generate $2.4 billion in revenue over the next decade.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [49 favorites]
I don't get it. What are they trying to so?
Chaos is a ladder.
posted by asteria at 7:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Chaos is a ladder.
posted by asteria at 7:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
So, it's a rather-cancer-than-ebola situation?
Yep. You can fight cancer. With ebola everybody's already dead.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yep. You can fight cancer. With ebola everybody's already dead.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
Putin is creating chaos. He's an old-school hardman. His position is strong but brittle. The history of the rulers of Russia is simple. You win, or you die.
He needs to convince the oligarchs that his presidency is better for them than any of them trying for it. He needs to toss enough wealth to the rich that they don't start conspiring. He needs to keep every other Russian terrified. Except the Armed Forces.
If the Russian Armed Forces are too weak, NATO wins. That's what happened in 1988, and Putin remembers.
If they are too strong, they may take over.
Putin is riding the tiger by making the military strong, but busy. That's why Lithuania is fucked.
The strategy is driven by three core ideas:
Russia has oil, uranium, astonishing software people and fuck all else. Uranium has no value. Software people are all emigrating or being paid vast amounts to build weapon tech - some digital, some actual weapons.
So, Oil. Russia benefits from high oil prices, and access to reserves.
Putin's actions make sense now.
posted by Combat Wombat at 7:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [59 favorites]
He needs to convince the oligarchs that his presidency is better for them than any of them trying for it. He needs to toss enough wealth to the rich that they don't start conspiring. He needs to keep every other Russian terrified. Except the Armed Forces.
If the Russian Armed Forces are too weak, NATO wins. That's what happened in 1988, and Putin remembers.
If they are too strong, they may take over.
Putin is riding the tiger by making the military strong, but busy. That's why Lithuania is fucked.
The strategy is driven by three core ideas:
- Never let the Americans use technical dominance to cripple Russia again
- Money = Power. Maximize the value of Russia's resources
- Do not cede the global stage. Project power everywhere
Russia has oil, uranium, astonishing software people and fuck all else. Uranium has no value. Software people are all emigrating or being paid vast amounts to build weapon tech - some digital, some actual weapons.
So, Oil. Russia benefits from high oil prices, and access to reserves.
Putin's actions make sense now.
- Destroy NATO's resolve
- Disrupt the EU
- Foment conflict in oil-rich areas to hike the oil price
- Keep the Russian Military busy in Ukraine, Lithuania etc. until needed in the Gulf
- Weapons sales to countries that no longer trust the US
posted by Combat Wombat at 7:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [59 favorites]
Pence isn't sane at all, in my book. He's an extremist against women and while I don't want Trump as Prez, I also don't want Pence. It's disgusting to hear people praise him as a reasonable man and I am SO not on board.
posted by agregoli at 7:44 AM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 7:44 AM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
MSNBC's Jesse Rodriguez has this (twitter link) from John McCain, re: Trump's tweets: "They’re fun reading. I wake up in the morning and see he gets up earlier than I do, so I’m able to see his tweets."
I, um, don't concur that they are fun, but OK. When is McCain up for re-election?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I, um, don't concur that they are fun, but OK. When is McCain up for re-election?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't think anyone is trying to say that he's like super reasonable and a chill nice guy or whatever. I've said this before that having a President Pence would be awful. Most likely more awful than the Bush/Cheney years...but it's a survivable awful. Pence is willing to do Shitty Republican™ things for sure, but I'm fairly confident in our ability to survive and overcome that.
Yes people would suffer, but we might avoid a nuclear war/WWIII. I really don't have that same confidence in Trump. At all.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yes people would suffer, but we might avoid a nuclear war/WWIII. I really don't have that same confidence in Trump. At all.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Jesus. You'd think there would be easier (and less evil, but setting aside questions of morality, just easier) ways to get what you want in this world...but I guess this is why I'll never be a dictator.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
As T.D. Strange has consistently pointed out, the entire leadership of the Republican party is complicit in the current events merely by inaction.
What we have happening is a discovery of all the specific laws that have already been broken. Provided that Mueller and his staff have the fortitude to wade through the mess and catalog the, at this point what seem multitudes, of broken laws by Trumpco.
This is a test of not only our federal bureaucracy, which is in place to uphold the rule of law, but also the current Republican party to actually follow the rule of law.
And that is the pivot point. Do you trust McConell and Ryan? Pence is as deep in it as Sessions.
What is it you would have for this country?
Merrick Garland? Anybody?
How long? Not long.
posted by Max Power at 7:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
What we have happening is a discovery of all the specific laws that have already been broken. Provided that Mueller and his staff have the fortitude to wade through the mess and catalog the, at this point what seem multitudes, of broken laws by Trumpco.
This is a test of not only our federal bureaucracy, which is in place to uphold the rule of law, but also the current Republican party to actually follow the rule of law.
And that is the pivot point. Do you trust McConell and Ryan? Pence is as deep in it as Sessions.
What is it you would have for this country?
Merrick Garland? Anybody?
How long? Not long.
posted by Max Power at 7:48 AM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
No reasonable person is saying that Pence isn't dangerous. But compared to Trump-- look, if you had no other options, would you rather fight one grizzly bear or twelve rabid badgers?
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:49 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:49 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Since Trump doesn't give a shit about policy or positions except for Russia and let's others convince him what to do, right now we're getting both the Madness of King Trump and the Handmaid's Tale of Pence. I'm all for eliminating one of those problems and then fighting Pence on a non-nuclear wasteland battlefield.
posted by chris24 at 7:50 AM on June 7, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 7:50 AM on June 7, 2017 [47 favorites]
I, um, don't concur that they are fun, but OK. When is McCain up for re-election?
2022. He just won reelection.
posted by Talez at 7:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
2022. He just won reelection.
posted by Talez at 7:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
For many, Pence would not be a survivable awful. His policies would cripple and kill women.
I'm tired of this moral calculus. It also doesn't matter what we'd rather. It's pointless speculation using human lives as weights.
posted by agregoli at 7:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
I'm tired of this moral calculus. It also doesn't matter what we'd rather. It's pointless speculation using human lives as weights.
posted by agregoli at 7:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
(And no more nuclear wasteland talk, also, puhleese?)
posted by agregoli at 7:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 7:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think Putin views the chaos, distrust, and general shit stirring as a sort of Xanatos Gambit: no matter what happens he thinks Russia will emerge stronger and its rivals will emerge weaker.
I don't think people realize that Putin's getting so aggressive because he's got a really weak hand and he's seriously screwed over any medium to long term time frame.
Russia's a 'resource curse' country that doesn't have a diverse economy. Unlike, say Norway, they didn't plow their money into improving the country, but instead into oligarch's pockets. That's particularly bad because their resource isn't worth what it used to be due to the explosive (heh) growth of fracking and alternative energy like wind and solar. They've got an economy that's smaller than South Korea. Oh, and they're shrinking. They've got a birth rate like Japan without the wealth. Sanctions have not made things better in Russia, and while folks have put up with it so far due to the drums of Nationalism, eventually folks start to wonder why they've got to have shitty Russian products instead of the nice European products everyone else has.
Russia is fucked.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [61 favorites]
I don't think people realize that Putin's getting so aggressive because he's got a really weak hand and he's seriously screwed over any medium to long term time frame.
Russia's a 'resource curse' country that doesn't have a diverse economy. Unlike, say Norway, they didn't plow their money into improving the country, but instead into oligarch's pockets. That's particularly bad because their resource isn't worth what it used to be due to the explosive (heh) growth of fracking and alternative energy like wind and solar. They've got an economy that's smaller than South Korea. Oh, and they're shrinking. They've got a birth rate like Japan without the wealth. Sanctions have not made things better in Russia, and while folks have put up with it so far due to the drums of Nationalism, eventually folks start to wonder why they've got to have shitty Russian products instead of the nice European products everyone else has.
Russia is fucked.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [61 favorites]
You know what I'd be far more interested in than another re-hash of "who's worse" in the presidential chain of succession? An actual researched analysis of the most likely majority of house seats and 2/3 of senate seats that would cast their votes to remove the sitting president. It seems irrelevant to discuss how advisable that outcome is if we can't even articulate how it might happen.
Those who know more than me, what are the pressure points?
posted by meinvt at 7:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Those who know more than me, what are the pressure points?
posted by meinvt at 7:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
There's also a possibility that if Trump goes down due to Russian campaign interference, Pence will not survive either. His defense that he was out of the loop regarding Mike Flynn was easily debunked.
posted by zarq at 7:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zarq at 7:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
We have had the Pence vs. Trump vs. Ryan debate a hundred times in these threads. Maybe in the interest of mod sanity we could stipulate to disagreement?
posted by spitbull at 7:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 7:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [53 favorites]
Russia is fucked.
Jep, but they are trying hard to drag us down with them..
posted by mumimor at 7:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Jep, but they are trying hard to drag us down with them..
posted by mumimor at 7:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mod note: Let's lay off the "Trump is worse"/"Pence is worse" thing, as folks are saying, we've been over that a lot and people have stated the same positions again and again, it doesn't seem like a lot of forward movement is happening
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:57 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:57 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
Nick Weaver of UC Berkley was interviewed on Kerri Miller's MPR show. He just mentioned that there was reporting after the election about a Russian plan to make it look like votes were tampered with, if Clinton had won the election. (Remember Trump saying he would accept the results if he won?)
Anyone know more about this? Weaver was speculating that possibly the hacking reported by the Intercept was intended to support that narrative? He said there was a hashtag that they'd been planning to use, but he couldn't remember what it was.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:04 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Anyone know more about this? Weaver was speculating that possibly the hacking reported by the Intercept was intended to support that narrative? He said there was a hashtag that they'd been planning to use, but he couldn't remember what it was.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:04 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Iran Revolutionary Guards blame Saudi Arabia for deadly attacks in Tehran: Iran’s Revolutionary Guards have accused Saudi Arabia of masterminding the deadly attacks in Tehran on Wednesday, in which at least 12 people were killed. Earlier the terrorist group Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attacks.
"This terrorist attack happened only a week after the meeting between the U.S. president (Donald Trump) and the (Saudi) backward leaders who support terrorists. The fact that Islamic State has claimed responsibility proves that they were involved in the brutal attack," said the statement, cited by Reuters.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:05 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
"This terrorist attack happened only a week after the meeting between the U.S. president (Donald Trump) and the (Saudi) backward leaders who support terrorists. The fact that Islamic State has claimed responsibility proves that they were involved in the brutal attack," said the statement, cited by Reuters.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:05 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
An actual researched analysis of the most likely majority of house seats and 2/3 of senate seats that would cast their votes to remove the sitting president. I
Trump Can Commit All the High Crimes He Wants. Republicans Aren’t Going to Impeach Him.
There is no scenario under which Trump is impeached without Democrats retaking the House. There's no current scenario where he receives enough votes to be removed in the Senate even if impeached. Depending on the revelations from Mueller, it could conceivably happen, but not without years more relevaltions, public pressure, undeniable evidence of crimes, and actual electoral defeat of Republcians in 2018 and leading into 2020. They will only act if they feel like they are losing power, not based on laws, or morals, or even the wholesale destruction of our postwar international order. The only thing that can move Republicans away from their current 100% support of Trump's treason is electoral losses.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:09 AM on June 7, 2017 [62 favorites]
Trump Can Commit All the High Crimes He Wants. Republicans Aren’t Going to Impeach Him.
There is no scenario under which Trump is impeached without Democrats retaking the House. There's no current scenario where he receives enough votes to be removed in the Senate even if impeached. Depending on the revelations from Mueller, it could conceivably happen, but not without years more relevaltions, public pressure, undeniable evidence of crimes, and actual electoral defeat of Republcians in 2018 and leading into 2020. They will only act if they feel like they are losing power, not based on laws, or morals, or even the wholesale destruction of our postwar international order. The only thing that can move Republicans away from their current 100% support of Trump's treason is electoral losses.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:09 AM on June 7, 2017 [62 favorites]
Putin knows he can't win a conventional head-on war with NATO, Russia is severely outmatched. So his objective is to gain ground while making us unwilling to fight. As Sun Tzu said in Art of War: "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."
posted by scalefree at 8:10 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 8:10 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump Can Commit All the High Crimes He Wants. Republicans Aren’t Going to Impeach Him.
All Republicans, or Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan?
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:12 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
All Republicans, or Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan?
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:12 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I would assume an absolute commitment to treason on their part right the way down to dogcatcher.
posted by Artw at 8:18 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:18 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Are there strategies for Russian economic diversification and improvement that let the oligarchs still maintain power? Or is teh evulz part of the goal? Or laziness?
(For 45, given that he would be just as rich or richer just using index funds, it seems like crushing people is part of his joy. The optimist in me wants to find places to make that urge more aligned with things that don't suck.)
posted by gregglind at 8:18 AM on June 7, 2017
(For 45, given that he would be just as rich or richer just using index funds, it seems like crushing people is part of his joy. The optimist in me wants to find places to make that urge more aligned with things that don't suck.)
posted by gregglind at 8:18 AM on June 7, 2017
> The only thing that can move Republicans away from their current 100% support of Trump's treason is electoral losses.
I narrowly disagree with Chait, in that I do think the threat of electoral losses would be enough to do it. The difference in policy going from Trump to Pence is likely small in their view, so the key question is whether the PR hit they take from impeaching him is worse than the daily PR hits of so much bad press. They certainly don't want anti-GOP sentiments carrying over into 2018, so I think if the public revolts even more than they are now, they will decide to just cut their losses with him.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:18 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I narrowly disagree with Chait, in that I do think the threat of electoral losses would be enough to do it. The difference in policy going from Trump to Pence is likely small in their view, so the key question is whether the PR hit they take from impeaching him is worse than the daily PR hits of so much bad press. They certainly don't want anti-GOP sentiments carrying over into 2018, so I think if the public revolts even more than they are now, they will decide to just cut their losses with him.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:18 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Are there strategies for Russian economic diversification and improvement that let the oligarchs still maintain power? Or is teh evulz part of the goal? Or laziness?
I assume it's just the one thing he's good at so he goes with it. Like how Republicans are only good at rigging shit and wrecking shit.
posted by Artw at 8:21 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I assume it's just the one thing he's good at so he goes with it. Like how Republicans are only good at rigging shit and wrecking shit.
posted by Artw at 8:21 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
The special elections aren't really going to be enough of a disaster to swing it, are they? They can probably even pass any close squeaks off as a huge victory.
posted by Artw at 8:22 AM on June 7, 2017
posted by Artw at 8:22 AM on June 7, 2017
I urge Istanbul to finally accept responsibility for this egregious incident
Istanbullies
Not Constantinopolicebrutality
posted by kirkaracha at 8:24 AM on June 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
Welp today in stupid: Hunting for Trump's Climate Views Leads Down a Rabbit Hole, Perry Says
posted by Existential Dread at 8:26 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Perry challenged China to compete with U.S. energy technology, insisting that America isn’t backing away from its position as a leader in cleaning up the environment.As if that hasn't already happened, ya leathery dipshit
“I hope China will step in and attempt to take the mantle away” from the U.S., Perry told reporters Monday in Tokyo. “It would be a good challenge for them.”
posted by Existential Dread at 8:26 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump Can Commit All the High Crimes He Wants. Republicans Aren’t Going to Impeach Him.
This is a bold claim to make when even Fox News, as linked above, are starting to push back against Trump. Republicans, like all elected officials, care about the bottom line (i.e., their ability to be re-elected) first and foremost. If the conservative zeitgeist within the base starts to turn against him, and it appears that it is, you better believe they will jump on that bandwagon fast. So making absolutist statements like this not only tempt fate; they fly in the face of what motivates politicians in the first place.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:28 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
This is a bold claim to make when even Fox News, as linked above, are starting to push back against Trump. Republicans, like all elected officials, care about the bottom line (i.e., their ability to be re-elected) first and foremost. If the conservative zeitgeist within the base starts to turn against him, and it appears that it is, you better believe they will jump on that bandwagon fast. So making absolutist statements like this not only tempt fate; they fly in the face of what motivates politicians in the first place.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:28 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
I am watching the hearing and hooboy, am I pissed off.
To recap what has happened so far, Dan Coats laid out the importance of the FISA Court and Section 702 of the Patriot Act. However, when Vice Chair Warner asked about whether Trump had ever asked or pressured Mike Rogers or Dan Coats to downplay or quash the investigation into Russian interference. However, both Rogers and Coats refused to comment on conversations they had with the "President". Coats won't comment in an open hearing, while Rogers won't comment beyond to give non-denials and obfuscation.
Basically all these guys are invoking executive privilege in the most pathetic, cowardly way, instead of leveling with We the People, their fucking bosses. They all claim that they haven't been asked by the WH to invoke executive privilege. Even Rubio's questions had these guys looking like fools tripping over their dicks because they kept answering questions that Rubio didn't ask, while avoiding giving yeses or nos.
Burr, Warner, Risch, Feinstein, Rubio, Wyden, and now Collins have asked questions.
Mods, if this is too live-bloggy, please delete without worry!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:30 AM on June 7, 2017 [65 favorites]
To recap what has happened so far, Dan Coats laid out the importance of the FISA Court and Section 702 of the Patriot Act. However, when Vice Chair Warner asked about whether Trump had ever asked or pressured Mike Rogers or Dan Coats to downplay or quash the investigation into Russian interference. However, both Rogers and Coats refused to comment on conversations they had with the "President". Coats won't comment in an open hearing, while Rogers won't comment beyond to give non-denials and obfuscation.
Basically all these guys are invoking executive privilege in the most pathetic, cowardly way, instead of leveling with We the People, their fucking bosses. They all claim that they haven't been asked by the WH to invoke executive privilege. Even Rubio's questions had these guys looking like fools tripping over their dicks because they kept answering questions that Rubio didn't ask, while avoiding giving yeses or nos.
Burr, Warner, Risch, Feinstein, Rubio, Wyden, and now Collins have asked questions.
Mods, if this is too live-bloggy, please delete without worry!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:30 AM on June 7, 2017 [65 favorites]
>The only thing that can move Republicans away from their current 100% support of Trump's treason is electoral losses.
I narrowly disagree with Chait, in that I do think the threat of electoral losses would be enough to do it.
Why would they allow elections they might lose, if they are far gone enough to go along with Putin's crazy plans for two years before that?
I don't think we can count on 2018. We need to force Republicans to act even while they are still in power. Some combination of appeals to their conscience (at least some must still have them) and refusal to consent might cause them to lose their nerve. They know they are playing a dangerous game. They face a prisoner's dilemma -- if even a few of them cave and vote with Democrats to actually do something about these threats, the rest will be humiliated and ruined for their part in allowing things to this bad. There is a strong incentive to be among the FIRST to cave, then, once the chances of anyone caving look high enough. We need to keep the pressure up. NOW. Someone will cave.
I've noticed there aren't a lot of people defending Trump any more. No more soundbites from Ryan and McConnell about how he had every right to do what he's done. They've fallen silent.
Turning on him is the next step. We don't need that many -- a couple dozen in each house. Even cartels and mobs which enforce loyalty with death threats can't silence everyone.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:30 AM on June 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
I narrowly disagree with Chait, in that I do think the threat of electoral losses would be enough to do it.
Why would they allow elections they might lose, if they are far gone enough to go along with Putin's crazy plans for two years before that?
I don't think we can count on 2018. We need to force Republicans to act even while they are still in power. Some combination of appeals to their conscience (at least some must still have them) and refusal to consent might cause them to lose their nerve. They know they are playing a dangerous game. They face a prisoner's dilemma -- if even a few of them cave and vote with Democrats to actually do something about these threats, the rest will be humiliated and ruined for their part in allowing things to this bad. There is a strong incentive to be among the FIRST to cave, then, once the chances of anyone caving look high enough. We need to keep the pressure up. NOW. Someone will cave.
I've noticed there aren't a lot of people defending Trump any more. No more soundbites from Ryan and McConnell about how he had every right to do what he's done. They've fallen silent.
Turning on him is the next step. We don't need that many -- a couple dozen in each house. Even cartels and mobs which enforce loyalty with death threats can't silence everyone.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:30 AM on June 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
I don't think people realize that Putin's getting so aggressive because he's got a really weak hand and he's seriously screwed over any medium to long term time frame.
And that is a frightening dynamic because it might lead Putin to decide that there's no time like the present to roll the dice on...whatever his plans are, even at the risk of starting a wider war. It reminds me of German fears of growing Russian military and economic strength that led the German General Staff to believe that a wider war was worth risking in 1914 because they perceived the chances of winning that war would only decrease as time went on.
After the war, Bethmann Hollweg admitted, “Yes, by God, in a way it was a preventative war,” for military leaders had “declared that [in 1914] it was still possible [to fight the war] without being defeated, in two years’ time no longer!”[32]
Hopefully, I've just read too many WW1 books over the past few years because I'm seeing disturbing parallels everywhere these days.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 8:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
And that is a frightening dynamic because it might lead Putin to decide that there's no time like the present to roll the dice on...whatever his plans are, even at the risk of starting a wider war. It reminds me of German fears of growing Russian military and economic strength that led the German General Staff to believe that a wider war was worth risking in 1914 because they perceived the chances of winning that war would only decrease as time went on.
After the war, Bethmann Hollweg admitted, “Yes, by God, in a way it was a preventative war,” for military leaders had “declared that [in 1914] it was still possible [to fight the war] without being defeated, in two years’ time no longer!”[32]
Hopefully, I've just read too many WW1 books over the past few years because I'm seeing disturbing parallels everywhere these days.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 8:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
I would point out that if Republicans in general were TOTALLY onboard with Trump's pro-Putin agenda, we wouldn't still have sanctions on Russia. But we do. I think many of them are not onboard, but have been in denial. Now that they are starting to realize what is really going on, they are paralyzed. They have no idea what to do.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:36 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:36 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Why would they allow elections they might lose, if they are far gone enough to go along with Putin's crazy plans for two years before that?
Wait, you're saying you think Republicans won't allow elections to take place? I'm not going to bet against it given all of the awful things that have happened, but how exactly do you think that sort of gambit would play out?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:37 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wait, you're saying you think Republicans won't allow elections to take place? I'm not going to bet against it given all of the awful things that have happened, but how exactly do you think that sort of gambit would play out?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:37 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Excommunicated Cardinal, that kind of recap of testimony is great. The liveblogging we want to avoid is fifty comments all going "no way!!" "yeah right" and stuff like that, or single-sentence comments that just repeat one thing somebody said in the hearing with no context.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:39 AM on June 7, 2017 [72 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:39 AM on June 7, 2017 [72 favorites]
> we wouldn't still have sanctions on Russia
That would depends on if Putin thinks the existence of sanctions serve his needs. Per the playbook, the sanctions hurts Russia, but their existence makes it far easier to demonize the US, especially in other countries that are also under sanctions.
posted by fragmede at 8:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
That would depends on if Putin thinks the existence of sanctions serve his needs. Per the playbook, the sanctions hurts Russia, but their existence makes it far easier to demonize the US, especially in other countries that are also under sanctions.
posted by fragmede at 8:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait, you're saying you think Republicans won't allow elections to take place? I'm not going to bet against it given all of the awful things that have happened, but how exactly do you think that sort of gambit would play out?
I said "elections they might lose."
Even Russia still has elections. It's just that the outcome is a forgone conclusion. How I think that gambit would play out? Same way it has in Russia, most likely. Propaganda, "Reichtstag fire"/Moscow apartment bombings type stuff, journalists disappeared, opposition leaders arrested, even more blatant voter suppression... There's a playbook for this.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I said "elections they might lose."
Even Russia still has elections. It's just that the outcome is a forgone conclusion. How I think that gambit would play out? Same way it has in Russia, most likely. Propaganda, "Reichtstag fire"/Moscow apartment bombings type stuff, journalists disappeared, opposition leaders arrested, even more blatant voter suppression... There's a playbook for this.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
via scalefree in chat: excellent twitter blow-by-blow of the current hearing by Marcy Wheeler ("one of the leading independent experts on IC law, probably the leading expert") here.
posted by progosk at 8:44 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by progosk at 8:44 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Coats in the hearing, seems to be reiterating that he's not sure he has a legal right to refuse to answer the questions about Trump. It's very confusing, because he most assuredly would have spoken to a lawyer before testifying today. So, he's either stalling, or has some reason to be stonewalling.
Wittes has something about half the time. He needs to calm down.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wittes has something about half the time. He needs to calm down.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is total stonewalling.
I like Ari Melber's description of the hearings: "Rosenstein's position is that he can write public letters about Comey's job performance, but will not discuss the same topic under oath."
McCabe's argument is that he won't answer any questions about matters within the purview of Mueller's investigation. He can't or won't identify a legal basis for why he'll talk to Mueller but not the US Senate.
Rogers said he asked the White House whether they would invoke Executive Privilege with regard to his testimony, but "did not get a straight answer." However, when it comes to answering questions about what Trump told him, he says: "I feel it is inappropriate."
posted by zachlipton at 8:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
I like Ari Melber's description of the hearings: "Rosenstein's position is that he can write public letters about Comey's job performance, but will not discuss the same topic under oath."
McCabe's argument is that he won't answer any questions about matters within the purview of Mueller's investigation. He can't or won't identify a legal basis for why he'll talk to Mueller but not the US Senate.
Rogers said he asked the White House whether they would invoke Executive Privilege with regard to his testimony, but "did not get a straight answer." However, when it comes to answering questions about what Trump told him, he says: "I feel it is inappropriate."
posted by zachlipton at 8:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
Even Russia still has elections. It's just that the outcome is a forgone conclusion.
I'll admit to not being familiar with Russian elections, but here the states each run their own elections and are pretty fiercely independent. The federal elections for the executive are already weighted due to gerrymandering in some swing states, but at the same time you can't expect that many or even most states would accept single party rule by the Republicans.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:52 AM on June 7, 2017
I'll admit to not being familiar with Russian elections, but here the states each run their own elections and are pretty fiercely independent. The federal elections for the executive are already weighted due to gerrymandering in some swing states, but at the same time you can't expect that many or even most states would accept single party rule by the Republicans.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:52 AM on June 7, 2017
Can we dredge up and blanket the universe with that stupid "there's a bear in the woods" ad that Reagan did to get everybody terrified of Ruskies so we'd agree to sign over the contents of the national treasury to defense contractors?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpwdcmjBgNA
Hello? Assholes? Remember your BEAR? WELL CHECK IT OUT, HERE IT IS! TURNS OUT THERE WAS A BEAR AND HERE IS THE GOD DAMN BEAR! Right here in the kitchen. Oh, look at that, it just turned over the 'fridge. Oh, damn, now it's eating the dog. Would you care to, like, do something? At any... point...?
posted by Don Pepino at 8:52 AM on June 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpwdcmjBgNA
Hello? Assholes? Remember your BEAR? WELL CHECK IT OUT, HERE IT IS! TURNS OUT THERE WAS A BEAR AND HERE IS THE GOD DAMN BEAR! Right here in the kitchen. Oh, look at that, it just turned over the 'fridge. Oh, damn, now it's eating the dog. Would you care to, like, do something? At any... point...?
posted by Don Pepino at 8:52 AM on June 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
Angus King tore into these guys! He wants to know why exactly they keep refusing to answer questions regarding conversations about stalling the Russia investigation. He kept asking for a legal justification for not answering the questions, and they kept saying that they "felt it was inappropriate" to discuss their conversations with Trump, without providing any specific legal justification.
However, King got Coats to acknowledge that they had to consult the WH Office of General Counsel about the "executive...."--read executive privilege that he was trying so hard to claim he wasn't invoking.
Then, Rogers noted that they did have to consult OGC because of the "executive privilege aspects" of their communications with Trump. King also took them to task for not being forthcoming with the committee. Sen. King was pissed, while the IC chiefs stumbled and fumbled around and questioned whether they were upholding the oaths they swore in their confirmation hearing. I think they looked very, very bad.
Warner then noted that none of them claimed that Mueller had recused them from testifying about certain topics and noted his strong displeasure at their refusal to be clear.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:57 AM on June 7, 2017 [68 favorites]
However, King got Coats to acknowledge that they had to consult the WH Office of General Counsel about the "executive...."--read executive privilege that he was trying so hard to claim he wasn't invoking.
Then, Rogers noted that they did have to consult OGC because of the "executive privilege aspects" of their communications with Trump. King also took them to task for not being forthcoming with the committee. Sen. King was pissed, while the IC chiefs stumbled and fumbled around and questioned whether they were upholding the oaths they swore in their confirmation hearing. I think they looked very, very bad.
Warner then noted that none of them claimed that Mueller had recused them from testifying about certain topics and noted his strong displeasure at their refusal to be clear.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:57 AM on June 7, 2017 [68 favorites]
but at the same time you can't expect that many or even most states would accept single party rule by the Republicans.
25 states are more than happy to live under a Republican trifecta.
2010 was a watershed moment when the last vestiges of state Dixiecrats finally converted fully to Republicans under the banner of the Tea Party movement. This has turned vast swaths of the south into trifecta Republican governments with streaks broken only when the governor is a completely incompetent fuckup.
posted by Talez at 9:01 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
25 states are more than happy to live under a Republican trifecta.
2010 was a watershed moment when the last vestiges of state Dixiecrats finally converted fully to Republicans under the banner of the Tea Party movement. This has turned vast swaths of the south into trifecta Republican governments with streaks broken only when the governor is a completely incompetent fuckup.
posted by Talez at 9:01 AM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Here's my talking points on objecting the Christopher Wray as FBI Director for Senators:
* Expect Senator to take all possible measures at every juncture to block the appointment of Christopher Wray as the Director of the FBI.
* Wray was the personal lawyer of Trump toady Chris Christie during Bridgegate
* Went to Guantanamo Bay to watch torture
* Gave inappropriate briefings to John Ashcroft during the investigation into the outing Agent Valerie Plame
* Was involved in the political firings of US Attorneys under Alberto Gonzales.
* Wray is too close to Trump associates to be trusted to protect the FBI's independence
* His inappropriate and appalling behavior in the past disqualifies him from the position of FBI Director
* Cannot be trusted to protect the independence of investigation into Donald Trump and his KGB handlers.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [74 favorites]
* Expect Senator to take all possible measures at every juncture to block the appointment of Christopher Wray as the Director of the FBI.
* Wray was the personal lawyer of Trump toady Chris Christie during Bridgegate
* Went to Guantanamo Bay to watch torture
* Gave inappropriate briefings to John Ashcroft during the investigation into the outing Agent Valerie Plame
* Was involved in the political firings of US Attorneys under Alberto Gonzales.
* Wray is too close to Trump associates to be trusted to protect the FBI's independence
* His inappropriate and appalling behavior in the past disqualifies him from the position of FBI Director
* Cannot be trusted to protect the independence of investigation into Donald Trump and his KGB handlers.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [74 favorites]
Nothing ever changes. Daily Beast: White House Staff, Congress Blindsided by FBI Pick Announcement
posted by zachlipton at 9:03 AM on June 7, 2017 [64 favorites]
A number of senior Trump officials learned of the president’s pick to lead the FBI the same way everyone else did: on Twitter.I mean, they have the choice of not working there anymore, but apparently they has never occurred to them.
President Donald Trump’s top communications staff, and much of his senior White House team, did not know the president was going to make the official announcement for nominating James Comey’s successor early Wednesday morning via a single tweet, according to multiple White House officials. Several observers noted on Wednesday morning that Trump’s Christopher Wray announcement did not arrive with any fact sheet or official press release, as would be expected with news of this weight.
...
“We woke up to this,” one official said. “[Everyone in the White House] should all be used to this by now...This is how [Trump] operates.”
...
"[It’s back to] us scrambling to figure out what to do...like before," the senior aide said. "We literally have no other choice."
The aide added that the president’s senior aides and his communications staffers are now "waiting on his next wrath," that will undoubtedly result in the blame getting piled onto others not named Donald J. Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 9:03 AM on June 7, 2017 [64 favorites]
The federal elections for the executive are already weighted due to gerrymandering in some swing states,
The electoral college and the constitutional over-representation of small-population states (you get at least two senators and at least one rep no matter how small your population) are a bigger factor than gerrymandering, really. In the last election, more people voted for Democrats for the House, Senate, and Presidency I believe... But Republicans control all three.
but at the same time you can't expect that many or even most states would accept single party rule by the Republicans.
We have that now at the federal level, and most states are indeed accepting it. What would "not accepting it" look like? Civil war? That would also be a great outcome, from Russia's point of view.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:04 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
The electoral college and the constitutional over-representation of small-population states (you get at least two senators and at least one rep no matter how small your population) are a bigger factor than gerrymandering, really. In the last election, more people voted for Democrats for the House, Senate, and Presidency I believe... But Republicans control all three.
but at the same time you can't expect that many or even most states would accept single party rule by the Republicans.
We have that now at the federal level, and most states are indeed accepting it. What would "not accepting it" look like? Civil war? That would also be a great outcome, from Russia's point of view.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:04 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Kansas for instance, are so far in the fucking Kool-Aid that they realized that full flavor Republicanism was killing them but then instead of switching to Democratic, they simply voted for Diet Republicanism. All the religious dominance and racism, none of the education cuts.
posted by Talez at 9:06 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:06 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
via scalefree in chat: excellent twitter blow-by-blow of the current hearing by Marcy Wheeler ("one of the leading independent experts on IC law, probably the leading expert") here.
Yes, she's a must-follow in the field on Twitter. On the journalistic side, there's MoJo's DC bureau chief, David Corn (he's the one who first reported on the existence of the Steele Dossier). Ex-NSA spook and current Observer columnist John Schindler has a big "caveat lector" sign above his head, but he's got IC contacts willing to tell tales out of school and a decent batting average.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:07 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yes, she's a must-follow in the field on Twitter. On the journalistic side, there's MoJo's DC bureau chief, David Corn (he's the one who first reported on the existence of the Steele Dossier). Ex-NSA spook and current Observer columnist John Schindler has a big "caveat lector" sign above his head, but he's got IC contacts willing to tell tales out of school and a decent batting average.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:07 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
We have that now at the federal level, and most states are indeed accepting it. What would "not accepting it" look like? Civil war?
Uh, multi-state lawsuits against the travel ban that are successful? State-level commitment to the Paris Accords across a range of states? A supermajority of Kansas legislators defeating Brownback's catastrophic economic agenda?
We don't have one party rule of the federal government; we had a recent election that gave unified control to one party after 8 years of presidency by the other. Predicting completely rigged federal elections across the union and then perhaps civil war in 2018 is a little extreme.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
Uh, multi-state lawsuits against the travel ban that are successful? State-level commitment to the Paris Accords across a range of states? A supermajority of Kansas legislators defeating Brownback's catastrophic economic agenda?
We don't have one party rule of the federal government; we had a recent election that gave unified control to one party after 8 years of presidency by the other. Predicting completely rigged federal elections across the union and then perhaps civil war in 2018 is a little extreme.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
Here's a 5 minute video of the exchange with Sen. King. It's very much worth watching if you want to see how much they're stonewalling and can't even identify any basis to do so.
This is not a group of people acting like they have nothing to hide.
Kamala Harris is a badass. Rogers was trying to BS his refusal to answer questions and asked "do I get to respond?" and she just cut him off with "no sir. No."
posted by zachlipton at 9:14 AM on June 7, 2017 [64 favorites]
This is not a group of people acting like they have nothing to hide.
Kamala Harris is a badass. Rogers was trying to BS his refusal to answer questions and asked "do I get to respond?" and she just cut him off with "no sir. No."
posted by zachlipton at 9:14 AM on June 7, 2017 [64 favorites]
Wow, surprise surprise, Burr cuts off a woman of color, Sen. Kamala Harris, who is aggressively questioning a stonewalling DOJ official, saying that she's not extending these know-nothings the courtesy of letting them bullshit for her five minutes.
For the record, Sen. Harris was asking, yes or no, whether Rosenstein would agree to take another step to further codify Mueller's status as a truly independent counsel, as Special Counsel Fitzgerald was. Rosenstein ignored her last question, while Burr gave Cornyn the floor. Microagressions in action.
Anyway, this is my last post for the morning--got appointments and volunteer work, so peace out! Stay strong; keep resisting!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [78 favorites]
For the record, Sen. Harris was asking, yes or no, whether Rosenstein would agree to take another step to further codify Mueller's status as a truly independent counsel, as Special Counsel Fitzgerald was. Rosenstein ignored her last question, while Burr gave Cornyn the floor. Microagressions in action.
Anyway, this is my last post for the morning--got appointments and volunteer work, so peace out! Stay strong; keep resisting!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [78 favorites]
* Is "witnesses" the word I should be using here?
The technical term is obstructionists
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
The technical term is obstructionists
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm confused too, how did we get to attacking Qatar?!? We have troops stationed there for god's sake.
...one night, after a sumptuous evening meal, all Milo's fighters and bombers took off, joined in formation directly overhead and began dropping bombs on the group. he had landed another contract with the Germans, this time to bomb his own outfit. Milo's planes separated in a well-coordinated attack and bombed the fuel stocks and the ordnance pump, the repair hangars and the B-25 bombers resting on the lollipop-shaped hardstands at the field. His crew spared the landing strip and the mess halls so that they could land safely when their work was done and enjoy a hot snack before retiring.posted by kirkaracha at 9:24 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Here's a 5 minute video of the exchange with Sen. King. It's very much worth watching if you want to see how much they're stonewalling and can't even identify any basis to do so.
Jesus Christ they're lapdogs to the administration. Go back to your master and look for executive privilege you spineless fucks.
posted by Talez at 9:25 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Jesus Christ they're lapdogs to the administration. Go back to your master and look for executive privilege you spineless fucks.
posted by Talez at 9:25 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Infowars strikes again: Florida woman sent to prison for threatening Sandy Hook parent [Reuters]
posted by melissasaurus at 9:27 AM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 9:27 AM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Predicting completely rigged federal elections across the union and then perhaps civil war in 2018 is a little extreme
That's not what I said. I said IF the Republicans were willing to go along with Putin's plans for two years, that would be sign to me that they have given up on the democratic experiment in America, and I would not expect them to want to take the risk of losing power in 2018.
But I actually predicted the opposite outcome. I predicted "Someone will cave" before 2018, and then a bunch of people will turn on Trump. I don't think most Republicans will be on board with becoming a Russian client state, if only they could bring themselves to believe that is a real risk.
I also didn't predict civil war. I asked what states not accepting the outcome of an election would look like, if not civil war. The pushback we are seeing at the state level right now is great, but it is not at all the same thing as refusing to accept the outcome of the election.
In fact I would predict that if we do have unfair elections, states will in fact accept the results. Because what else can they do?
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:27 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's not what I said. I said IF the Republicans were willing to go along with Putin's plans for two years, that would be sign to me that they have given up on the democratic experiment in America, and I would not expect them to want to take the risk of losing power in 2018.
But I actually predicted the opposite outcome. I predicted "Someone will cave" before 2018, and then a bunch of people will turn on Trump. I don't think most Republicans will be on board with becoming a Russian client state, if only they could bring themselves to believe that is a real risk.
I also didn't predict civil war. I asked what states not accepting the outcome of an election would look like, if not civil war. The pushback we are seeing at the state level right now is great, but it is not at all the same thing as refusing to accept the outcome of the election.
In fact I would predict that if we do have unfair elections, states will in fact accept the results. Because what else can they do?
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:27 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Basically all these guys are invoking executive privilege in the most pathetic, cowardly way, instead of leveling with We the People, their fucking bosses.
I"m just seeing them honoring an ongoing investigation, and trying to not undermine whatever Comey's testimony will be, only one day before he gives it. Makes sense to me.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I"m just seeing them honoring an ongoing investigation, and trying to not undermine whatever Comey's testimony will be, only one day before he gives it. Makes sense to me.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Vincente Fox, pulling no punches: "Dear Donald J. Trump: Here's a friendly reminder from Vicente Fox Quesada that Mexico will not pay for your wall." [Facebook]
posted by marshmallow peep at 9:34 AM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by marshmallow peep at 9:34 AM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
We won't know the elections are unfair until after the fact, if ever. We don't know the extent of Russian involvement to this day. Our election systems are not secure and are not auditable. Republicans have and will stonewall any attempt to reform the vulnerabilities or reckon with the results of unfairness in their favor. We're
seeing it right now, today. Even apart from actual hacking, Republicans in nearly every state they control are enacting more vote suppression laws than ever before, they don't even need actual changing of results to unfairly influence the outcome.
There's a very good argument the 2016 election was already not "free" or "fair". The situation where the US has "elections" but the result is all but foregone is not conspiracy or hyperbole, it's close to being actual fact on the ground in enough states to amount to fact on the federal level.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:34 AM on June 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
seeing it right now, today. Even apart from actual hacking, Republicans in nearly every state they control are enacting more vote suppression laws than ever before, they don't even need actual changing of results to unfairly influence the outcome.
There's a very good argument the 2016 election was already not "free" or "fair". The situation where the US has "elections" but the result is all but foregone is not conspiracy or hyperbole, it's close to being actual fact on the ground in enough states to amount to fact on the federal level.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:34 AM on June 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
I don't think most Republicans will be on board with becoming a Russian client state, if only they could bring themselves to believe that is a real risk.
Been pondering this for a bit now because I don't want to think that either. I can understand that there are likely those directly and indirectly embroiled in something Russia and why they would be on board. I could also at least understand the action of those that Russia/GOP has dirt on and would use it to keep people in line. But every single one being okay with that happening? I find that a tough one. So why then are they not doing anything.
I think it's due to ignorance and arrogance in the "America fuck yeah' vein. I think there are Reps and others who just don't think it is even remotely possible and are blind to all the pieces. Yeah it's Partisan for sure but I really do think that hubris and general arrogance is playing into it with some of them.
I've seen this sort of hubris play out too many times in smaller social and political venues to discount it as one of the psycho-social elements at play here.
posted by Jalliah at 9:38 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Been pondering this for a bit now because I don't want to think that either. I can understand that there are likely those directly and indirectly embroiled in something Russia and why they would be on board. I could also at least understand the action of those that Russia/GOP has dirt on and would use it to keep people in line. But every single one being okay with that happening? I find that a tough one. So why then are they not doing anything.
I think it's due to ignorance and arrogance in the "America fuck yeah' vein. I think there are Reps and others who just don't think it is even remotely possible and are blind to all the pieces. Yeah it's Partisan for sure but I really do think that hubris and general arrogance is playing into it with some of them.
I've seen this sort of hubris play out too many times in smaller social and political venues to discount it as one of the psycho-social elements at play here.
posted by Jalliah at 9:38 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeesh, that hearing. Clearly, there is more to come.
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 9:40 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 9:40 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Turkey is fast-tracking a bill to build a military base in Qatar. Should get interesting.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
All four "witnesses" may just as well have stammered, "Uhhh" and looked shifty for two hours. In all but a literal sense, they did.
posted by petebest at 9:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by petebest at 9:43 AM on June 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
The biggest wasted opportunity here was that no one on the panel demanded that Coats or Rogers make themselves available for today's closed session, when both of them clearly telegraphed that they would only speak where it wasn't visible to His Eyes, and that Coats clearly telegraphed that the closed session was to be attended only by lower level staffers.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:47 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:47 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Charles Pierce, in Esquire:
"It is time for Donald Trump to leave the White House."
The federal law enforcement community and the intelligence apparatus, are in open—if largely anonymous—revolt. An FBI director begs the attorney general not to leave him alone with the president*. The director of national intelligence reportedly has said that the president* directed him to step between the FBI director and the investigation of the Russian money and Russian influence, the exact obstruction of justice that hung Richard Nixon. Pretty soon, the administration will be staffed only by exiles from the wingnut media apparatus and his own insufferable spalpeens, who have ethical problems of their own. And this is only what's happened in this country over the past three days.
It really is time for him to go.
posted by spitbull at 9:50 AM on June 7, 2017 [49 favorites]
"It is time for Donald Trump to leave the White House."
The federal law enforcement community and the intelligence apparatus, are in open—if largely anonymous—revolt. An FBI director begs the attorney general not to leave him alone with the president*. The director of national intelligence reportedly has said that the president* directed him to step between the FBI director and the investigation of the Russian money and Russian influence, the exact obstruction of justice that hung Richard Nixon. Pretty soon, the administration will be staffed only by exiles from the wingnut media apparatus and his own insufferable spalpeens, who have ethical problems of their own. And this is only what's happened in this country over the past three days.
It really is time for him to go.
posted by spitbull at 9:50 AM on June 7, 2017 [49 favorites]
On the one hand regarding large groups as "not really people" is a bad sign and means you probably dream of genocide and are a Nazi or similar form of fuckface.
On the other hand, let's face it, nobody really thinks of the Trumpspawn as human.
My thinking is that if a person tells me that ANY human being isn't human (or fully human or any other flavor of this same nonsense) what they're telling me is that they don't consider themselves part of civilization.
Dude wants to live in a tribal society where "my tribe" are human and no one else is so we can gleefully do to them whatever we want.
If you want to be a member of civilization, you have to believe that all humans are human and have the same basic rights, full stop. Any person not a member of civilization should be assumed to be a hostile tribesman who sees everyone and everything not of their tribe as fair game to do whatever they want with and should be treated accordingly. For me, that means I don't view THEM as a real person insofar as I give a shit about their feelings. At that point they're just an obstacle for me to overcome or push out of the way. I'll welcome them back into the warm embrace of civilization with open arms if they change their ways.
Eric Trump is telling us all that he's a savage* who thinks nothing of destroying anything or anyone not of his tribe and should be treated accordingly.
*minus any negative connotations towards native Americans or any other similarly marginalized group.
posted by VTX at 9:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
On the other hand, let's face it, nobody really thinks of the Trumpspawn as human.
My thinking is that if a person tells me that ANY human being isn't human (or fully human or any other flavor of this same nonsense) what they're telling me is that they don't consider themselves part of civilization.
Dude wants to live in a tribal society where "my tribe" are human and no one else is so we can gleefully do to them whatever we want.
If you want to be a member of civilization, you have to believe that all humans are human and have the same basic rights, full stop. Any person not a member of civilization should be assumed to be a hostile tribesman who sees everyone and everything not of their tribe as fair game to do whatever they want with and should be treated accordingly. For me, that means I don't view THEM as a real person insofar as I give a shit about their feelings. At that point they're just an obstacle for me to overcome or push out of the way. I'll welcome them back into the warm embrace of civilization with open arms if they change their ways.
Eric Trump is telling us all that he's a savage* who thinks nothing of destroying anything or anyone not of his tribe and should be treated accordingly.
*minus any negative connotations towards native Americans or any other similarly marginalized group.
posted by VTX at 9:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
> Here's the clip of the "amazing" exchange between John McCain and Coats. McCain: “Is there anything more you want to tell us about Russian involvement in US election than what we have read in the Washington Post?”
Great, now I have to go out and buy a new John McCain Concern-o-Meter with a "Perturbed, But Still Not Ready to Do Anything About it" setting.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Great, now I have to go out and buy a new John McCain Concern-o-Meter with a "Perturbed, But Still Not Ready to Do Anything About it" setting.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Pretty soon, the administration will be staffed only by exiles from the wingnut media apparatus and his own insufferable spalpeens
Now that's an epithet whose time has come.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
Now that's an epithet whose time has come.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
That hearing was one of the most amazing bits of American politics I've watched. So much said without being said. Objectively it's a perfect example of how words in politics matter and how much you can gleen from words not said or refused to be said.
This was not good for Trump at all regardless of how he and GOP allies try to spin it. It indicates that there is even more going on behind center stage.
posted by Jalliah at 10:01 AM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
The C-SPAN reporter currently rehearsing on a hot mic is the hero we all need right now.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:01 AM on June 7, 2017
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:01 AM on June 7, 2017
On the other hand, let's face it, nobody really thinks of the Trumpspawn as human.
Oh, despite the uncanny valley effect I get from Eric Trump's face, they're all too human. If only they were from another planet, that would make it easier to come to terms with.
posted by dis_integration at 10:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh, despite the uncanny valley effect I get from Eric Trump's face, they're all too human. If only they were from another planet, that would make it easier to come to terms with.
posted by dis_integration at 10:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
I am encouraged by the trap Sen. Wyden laid. He asked: "Can the government use Section 702 to collect communications that it knows are entirely domestic?"
And Coates answered: "Not to my knowledge. It would be against the law."
I'm pretty confident Wyden knows exactly what he's doing there. I wonder if this is trying to get at the "backdoor search" problem, where the NSA can search its data using domestic identifiers, like the name or email of a US Citizen. The Post has more on this from their 2014 enterprise feature as well.
posted by zachlipton at 10:03 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
And Coates answered: "Not to my knowledge. It would be against the law."
I'm pretty confident Wyden knows exactly what he's doing there. I wonder if this is trying to get at the "backdoor search" problem, where the NSA can search its data using domestic identifiers, like the name or email of a US Citizen. The Post has more on this from their 2014 enterprise feature as well.
posted by zachlipton at 10:03 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Future John McCain headlines:
"McCain is dubious about Trump plans to let Russians use Alaskan Military Bases."
"McCain "needs more info" about Trump plan to return Louisana Purchase to France."
"McCain concerned by Orb being promoted to supreme ruler of America and its territories."
posted by drezdn at 10:03 AM on June 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
"McCain is dubious about Trump plans to let Russians use Alaskan Military Bases."
"McCain "needs more info" about Trump plan to return Louisana Purchase to France."
"McCain concerned by Orb being promoted to supreme ruler of America and its territories."
posted by drezdn at 10:03 AM on June 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
Hi lalex! What's it like living inside my head? Nice and comfortable up there I hope? ;-)
posted by zachlipton at 10:04 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:04 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
buy a new John McCain Concern-o-Meter ...
No, the setting you're looking for is on the current one.. it's "I wish I was back as an enlisted serviceman and had no actual responsibilities."
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:05 AM on June 7, 2017
No, the setting you're looking for is on the current one.. it's "I wish I was back as an enlisted serviceman and had no actual responsibilities."
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:05 AM on June 7, 2017
"McCain rolls eyes, quips 'I didn't sign up for this. I mean, come on, give me a break. This is ridiculous,' then resumes chanting in prostration before the Orb."
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:06 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:06 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
@OverlappingElvis What was I supposed to click on that page? I need a hero!
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:09 AM on June 7, 2017
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:09 AM on June 7, 2017
Though one thing this hearing as done has greatly downgraded my expectations for Comey tomorrow. While a nice and satisfying major plot piece would be great it may be more of the same sort of thing that happened today, more freaking set-up, mystery and hints to speculate on.
posted by Jalliah at 10:09 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
guys we are riffing and joking a lot here and there's some discussion of cutting back on that more proactively and voluntarily as per the current meta thread, in the interests of giving our stressed mods a break in what will likely be an epic couple of days here on mefi
posted by spitbull at 10:12 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 10:12 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
I have been looking for a mascot to characterize the creature Jeff Sessions.
I realize this was several comments ago, but as many on the Internet have pointed out, the phrase you're looking for is "Keebler Elf."
posted by duffell at 10:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
I realize this was several comments ago, but as many on the Internet have pointed out, the phrase you're looking for is "Keebler Elf."
posted by duffell at 10:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Though one thing this hearing as done has greatly downgraded my expectations for Comey tomorrow.
I'm still fairly optimistic. As always Josh Marshall says it best: Taking Stock of Trump/Russia on The Eve of Comey’s Testimony
I'm still fairly optimistic. As always Josh Marshall says it best: Taking Stock of Trump/Russia on The Eve of Comey’s Testimony
There were a number of news reports yesterday, pretty clearly coming from the same set of sources, saying that James Comey would not accuse President Trump of obstruction of justice but rather approach the hearing purely as a fact witness. This strikes me as wholly unsurprising. It really would not be any witness’s place to draw such conclusions, even if they were in the business of drawing those conclusions in their normal line of work. Again, entirely unsurprising. Going back to my discussion of the Comey Myth and James Comey’s embrace of it which I discussed a few weeks ago, Comey of all people wouldn’t be the one to draw such conclusions. ‘Just the facts, neither fear or favor, no vendettas just bringing you the truth’ is entirely James Comey’s shtick. Calling it a ‘shtick’ doesn’t mean it’s not true. But that’s exactly what the Comey Myth would call for.posted by scalefree at 10:19 AM on June 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
Finally, I don’t think you have to be too cynical to detect a certain subtextual messaging with these leaks. I’m not going to say he robbed the bank. I’m going to say what I saw, which is that he came into the bank with the gun, demanded the money and then left in the getaway car. But it’s not my place to draw any conclusions. But if my warning about what I’m not going to say gives you a conceptual model through to understand what I will say I guess that’s not the end of the world. Any thought that Comey is going to be reticent or has somehow become a reluctant witness strikes me as quite misplaced.
Coates and Rogers are using the subjective weasel word "pressured" as their escape hatch. They claim they weren't "pressured" to interfere in the Russia investigation while simultaneously refusing to answer whether they were "asked" to interfere in the Russia investigation.
posted by JackFlash at 10:23 AM on June 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 10:23 AM on June 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
wow, the other numbers in that quinnipiac poll are brutal, too:
fewer people think he did nothing wrong than approve of him
posted by murphy slaw at 10:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [71 favorites]
President Donald Trump did something illegal in his relationship with Russia, 31 percent of American voters say, while another 29 percent say he did something unethical, but not illegal, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today. The president did nothing wrong, 32 percent of voters say.60% believe trump is shady or criminal. 65% thinks his campaign was shady or criminal.
President Trump's campaign advisors did something illegal in dealing with Russia, 40 percent of voters say, as 25 percent say they did something unethical but not illegal and 24 percent say they did nothing wrong.
fewer people think he did nothing wrong than approve of him
posted by murphy slaw at 10:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [71 favorites]
Putin's actions make sense now.
Don't omit from that list:
posted by bonehead at 10:36 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Don't omit from that list:
- destabilizing OPEC
posted by bonehead at 10:36 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
If you'll forgive the pullquote here, Clapper's speech in Australia was amazeballs (you know, for a guy who should have been charged with perjury and living in disgrace right now, not going to forget who we're talking about here) and really really worth reading, and I'd like to highlight this segment. He talks about Russia's actions and their efforts to "sow doubt, discontent, and discord about our political system." Then:
As a consequence of all this, I have had a very hard time reconciling the threat the Russians pose to the United States—and, for that matter, western democracies in general—with the inexplicably solicitous stance the Trump administration (or at least, he himself as opposed to others in his administration) has taken with respect to Russia.posted by zachlipton at 10:39 AM on June 7, 2017 [70 favorites]
Let me move to the internal assault on our institutions I will share two examples, among many.
Then President-elect Trump disparaged the Intelligence Community’s high-confidence assessment of the magnitude and diversity of the Russian interference by characterizing us as “Nazis”. This was prompted by his and his team’s extreme paranoia about, and resentment of, any doubt cast on the legitimacy of his election. When he made this absurd allegation, I felt an obligation to defend the men and women of the United States intelligence community, so I called him on 11 January. Surprisingly, he took my call. I tried, naively it turned out, to appeal to his “higher instincts” — by pointing out that the intelligence community he was about to inherit is a national treasure, and that the people in it were committed to supporting him and making him successful. Ever transactional, he simply asked me to publicly refute the infamous “dossier”, which I could not and would not do.
When I later learned that the first place he was going to visit after the Inauguration was CIA, I thought — again, naively — that perhaps I had gotten through to him. For the intelligence community (not just the CIA) the wall in the front lobby at CIA Headquarters is hallowed, with over 120 stars commemorating CIA officers who have paid the ultimate price. He chose to use that as a prop for railing about the size of the inauguration crowd on the Mall, and his battle with the “fake news” media. His subsequent actions — sharing sensitive intelligence with the Russians, and, compromising its source reflect ignorance or disrespect — are likewise very problematic.
Similarly, the whole episode with the firing of Jim Comey a distinguished public servant. Apart from the egregious, inexcusable manner in which it was conducted, this episode reflected complete disregard for the independence and autonomy of the FBI, our premier law enforcement organization. (Again truth in advertising, Jim is a personal friend and personal hero of mine.)
On the other hand, let's face it, nobody really thinks of the Trumpspawn as human.
Oh, despite the uncanny valley effect I get from Eric Trump's face, they're all too human.
There's a marked difference between being human and possessing humanity (or humility).
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:40 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh, despite the uncanny valley effect I get from Eric Trump's face, they're all too human.
There's a marked difference between being human and possessing humanity (or humility).
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:40 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Boom. James Comey's opening statement seems to have posted early. It is precise and detailed as hell.
posted by zachlipton at 10:45 AM on June 7, 2017 [101 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:45 AM on June 7, 2017 [101 favorites]
In fact I would predict that if we do have unfair elections, states will in fact accept the results.
*cues flashback sequence to the year 2000
posted by mikepop at 10:46 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
*cues flashback sequence to the year 2000
posted by mikepop at 10:46 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
i'm not going to liveblog it but the snippets of trump's speech in ohio i'm seeing indicate the full transcript should be quite the phantasmagoria
posted by murphy slaw at 10:46 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 10:46 AM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Opening statement highlight: A few moments later, the President said, "I need loyalty. I expect loyalty." I didn't move, speak, or change my facial expression in any way during the awkward silence that followed. We simply looked at each other in silence. The conversation then moved on, but he returned to the subject near the end of our dinner.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:52 AM on June 7, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:52 AM on June 7, 2017 [54 favorites]
Comey should get into creative writing. He'd work great as a first-person Lovecraft protagonist if you give Trump hints of gills and a tiara of an unknown alloy.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [80 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [80 favorites]
"He said he would do that and added, 'Because I have been very loyal to you, very loyal; we had that thing you know.' I did not reply or ask him what he meant by “that thing.”
*cringes*
This makes Trump sound like a teenager desperately trying to worm his way out of the Nice Guy friendzone.
posted by marshmallow peep at 10:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
*cringes*
This makes Trump sound like a teenager desperately trying to worm his way out of the Nice Guy friendzone.
posted by marshmallow peep at 10:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
okay i know i said i wasn't going to but this is too good not to share:
Trump gets distracted mid-sentence by a barge on the river, says the captain wants him to wave. "Hello, Captain," he says, waving. -- Daniel Dale, Washington correspondent, Toronto Starposted by murphy slaw at 10:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
Still reading, but I bet the close of that dinner conversation ('He then said, “I need loyalty.” I replied, “You will always get honesty from me.” He paused and then said, “That’s what I want, honest loyalty.” I paused, and then said, “You will get that from me.”') is what Trump was threatening to reveal when he tweeted that Comey should hope there were no recordings of their conversations.
posted by solotoro at 10:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by solotoro at 10:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
...because it was very difficult to prove a negative.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:57 AM on June 7, 2017
posted by infinitewindow at 10:57 AM on June 7, 2017
A bit of levity via Digg: Reporters reacting to Sean Spicer
[warning: there are ads]
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:57 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
[warning: there are ads]
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:57 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Boom. James Comey's opening statement seems to have posted early. It is precise and detailed as hell.
It's a doozy.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:57 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Reuters Turkey to fast track legislation approving troop deployment in Qatar - officials
Maybe this is too simplistic but the plan seems clear -- strengthen the authoritarian Russia - Turkey - Iran axis by separating Qatar from its Middle East neighbors, then "rescue" it from Saudi bullying by building up a big Russian base there to go along with Turkey's/
posted by msalt at 10:57 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe this is too simplistic but the plan seems clear -- strengthen the authoritarian Russia - Turkey - Iran axis by separating Qatar from its Middle East neighbors, then "rescue" it from Saudi bullying by building up a big Russian base there to go along with Turkey's/
posted by msalt at 10:57 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why release the statement before the hearing?
posted by dilaudid at 10:58 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dilaudid at 10:58 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Why release the statement before the hearing?
Maybe they can bait Trump into tweeting about it until the hearing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:59 AM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
Maybe they can bait Trump into tweeting about it until the hearing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:59 AM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
From Comey's opening statement:
> He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia, and had always assumed he was being recorded when in Russia.
That's a very interesting thing to specifically mention with no prompting.
posted by MysticMCJ at 11:01 AM on June 7, 2017 [120 favorites]
> He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia, and had always assumed he was being recorded when in Russia.
That's a very interesting thing to specifically mention with no prompting.
posted by MysticMCJ at 11:01 AM on June 7, 2017 [120 favorites]
I explained that we had briefed the leadership of Congress on exactly which individuals we were investigating and that we had told those Congressional leaders that we were not personally investigating President Trump. I reminded him I had previously told him that. He repeatedly told me, “We need to get that fact out.” (I did not tell the President that the FBI and the Department of Justice had been reluctant to make public statements that we did not have an open case on President Trump for a number of reasons, most importantly because it would create a duty to correct, should that change.)
Comey seems to be doing his best here to actually be loyal in the sense that Trump wants -- this is protective! -- and yet Trump is too vain and stupid to get it.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Comey seems to be doing his best here to actually be loyal in the sense that Trump wants -- this is protective! -- and yet Trump is too vain and stupid to get it.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
That salacious material...it's the pee tape, right? Please tell me it's the pee tape and the fact that there was a briefing on salacious material means that it totes exists.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:02 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
If any Congressional Republicans actually gave a shit this might actually be worth something.
posted by Talez at 11:04 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Talez at 11:04 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yes, it corroborates the statement in the letter firing him that he told Trump on three separate occasions that he was not being personally investigated (the first briefing, the dinner, and the first phone call). It also corroborates reports that he asked Sessions not to be left alone with the President and that he was asked to suppress any investigation into Flynn. My favorite line so far: "I did not tell the President that the FBI and the Department of Justice had been reluctant to make public statements that we did not have an open case on President Trump for a number of reasons,
most importantly because it would create a duty to correct, should that change." That's certainly a problem Comey is familiar with, isn't it.
posted by solotoro at 11:05 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
most importantly because it would create a duty to correct, should that change." That's certainly a problem Comey is familiar with, isn't it.
posted by solotoro at 11:05 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
I felt compelled to document my first conversation with the President-Elect in a memo. To ensure accuracy, I began to type it on a laptop in an FBI vehicle outside Trump Tower the moment I walked out of the meeting. Creating written records immediately after one-on-one conversations with Mr. Trump was my practice from that point forward. This had not been my practice in the past.
Wow.
posted by winna at 11:05 AM on June 7, 2017 [83 favorites]
Wow.
posted by winna at 11:05 AM on June 7, 2017 [83 favorites]
That salacious material...it's the pee tape, right? Please tell me it's the pee tape and the fact that there was a briefing on salacious material means that it totes exists.
Probably the pee tape, yet not known to exist by the FBI, is my reading. I'm taking it as the IC/FBI knew the dossier existed and in a counter-intelligence move wanted to alert the president to what might be coming out in the media.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:06 AM on June 7, 2017
The IC leadership thought it important, for a variety of reasons, to alert the[emphasis added]
incoming President to the existence of this material, even though it was salacious
and unverified.
Probably the pee tape, yet not known to exist by the FBI, is my reading. I'm taking it as the IC/FBI knew the dossier existed and in a counter-intelligence move wanted to alert the president to what might be coming out in the media.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:06 AM on June 7, 2017
Wow.
In this briefing he doesn't actually say what any of those notes WERE, of course...
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:08 AM on June 7, 2017
In this briefing he doesn't actually say what any of those notes WERE, of course...
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:08 AM on June 7, 2017
Opening statement highlight:
People keep taking mine, but nobody has claimed the quietly perfect:
'I did not say I would “let this go.”'
posted by box at 11:08 AM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
People keep taking mine, but nobody has claimed the quietly perfect:
'I did not say I would “let this go.”'
posted by box at 11:08 AM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
I hope the committee has some questions for Sessions about this:
posted by zachlipton at 11:09 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
Shortly afterwards, I spoke with Attorney General Sessions in person to pass along the President’s concerns about leaks. I took the opportunity to implore the Attorney General to prevent any future direct communication between the President and me. I told the AG that what had just happened – him being asked to leave while the FBI Director, who reports to the AG, remained behind – was inappropriate and should never happen. He did not reply. For the reasons discussed above, I did not mention that the President broached the FBI’s potential investigation of General Flynn.Comey specifically describes Trump ushering everyone out of the room after a counter-terrorism briefing, but Sessions and Kushner were hanging behind until Trump threw they out too.
posted by zachlipton at 11:09 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
He then said, “I need loyalty.” I replied, “You will always get honesty from me.” He paused and then said, “That’s what I want, honest loyalty.” I paused, and then said, “You will get that from me.” As I wrote in the memo I created immediately after the dinner, it is possible we understood the phrase “honest loyalty” differently, but I decided it wouldn’t be productive to push it further.
Well, lol
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:11 AM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
Well, lol
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:11 AM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
Comey specifically describes Trump ushering everyone out of the room after a counter-terrorism briefing, but Sessions and Kushner were hanging behind until Trump threw them out too.
Even Jodl and Krebs??
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:11 AM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
Even Jodl and Krebs??
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:11 AM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
There's several nuggets in here, to wit:
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:12 AM on June 7, 2017 [49 favorites]
My instincts told me that the one-on-one setting, and the pretense that thisemphasis mine
was our first discussion about my position, meant the dinner was, at least in part,
an effort to have me ask for my job and create some sort of patronage relationship.
That concerned me greatly, given the FBI’s traditionally independent status in the
executive branch.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:12 AM on June 7, 2017 [49 favorites]
He also points out several times that Reince Preibus and Mike Pence were clearly waiting for the one on one meeting to finish
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
When the door by the grandfather clock closed
Reince Priebus leaned in through the door by the grandfather clock
I then got up and left out the door by the grandfather clock
Wait, what's up with Comey constantly mentioning the grandfather clock? It's a really weird detail to consistently include. I get why he'd include the layout of a room and how/where they were seated, but he mentions the clock three times. Why? I mean, it's probably nothing, but it's just one of the weird things that stuck out at me. If this were a novel, I'd say there's something up with the clock.
posted by yasaman at 11:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
Reince Priebus leaned in through the door by the grandfather clock
I then got up and left out the door by the grandfather clock
Wait, what's up with Comey constantly mentioning the grandfather clock? It's a really weird detail to consistently include. I get why he'd include the layout of a room and how/where they were seated, but he mentions the clock three times. Why? I mean, it's probably nothing, but it's just one of the weird things that stuck out at me. If this were a novel, I'd say there's something up with the clock.
posted by yasaman at 11:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
With Comey's delivery, that statement should come across as very credible. There's even traces of Trump's own phrasing left in Comey's notes. It's absolutely possible he's leaving things out, but after reading it, I find his account totally believable.
posted by gladly at 11:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by gladly at 11:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Why release the statement before the hearing?
Presumably so people can hold it up to the light, look for "holes" (like the notion "That's a very interesting thing to specifically mention with no prompting"), and then make sure to ask the right questions during the hearing.
It's as if he is saying, "It's not there or there or there. Now, guess where it is!"
posted by wenestvedt at 11:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Presumably so people can hold it up to the light, look for "holes" (like the notion "That's a very interesting thing to specifically mention with no prompting"), and then make sure to ask the right questions during the hearing.
It's as if he is saying, "It's not there or there or there. Now, guess where it is!"
posted by wenestvedt at 11:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
it is possible we understood the phrase “honest loyalty” differently, but I decided it wouldn’t be productive to push it further.
This is amazing. I'm assuming this is what the ticking was about. Am I wrong?
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is amazing. I'm assuming this is what the ticking was about. Am I wrong?
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:13 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I did a quick search and haven't seen anybody posting about this, but following Nigel Farage's call for internment of basically anybody who he thinks might be a Muslim it looks like conservative drumbeaters on this side of the pond are calling for it as well, even gleefully comparing it to the Japanese internment during WWII.
Shaun King, NY Daily News: Trump supporters are calling for Muslim internment camps
posted by IAmUnaware at 11:14 AM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Shaun King, NY Daily News: Trump supporters are calling for Muslim internment camps
posted by IAmUnaware at 11:14 AM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Everyone's posting their favorite highlight, but mine is the one that looks like obstruction of justice:
Who knew the FBI Director was such a riveting writer too?
posted by zachlipton at 11:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
The President then returned to the topic of Mike Flynn, saying, “He is a good guy and has been through a lot.” He repeated that Flynn hadn’t done anything wrong on his calls with the Russians, but had misled the Vice President. He then said, “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.” I replied only that “he is a good guy.” (In fact, I had a positive experience dealing with Mike Flynn when he was ac olleague as Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency at the beginning of my term at FBI.) I did not say I would “let this go.”And his impression of the context:
I had understood the President to be requesting that we drop any investigation of Flynn in connection with false statements about his conversations with the Russian ambassador in December. I did not understand the President to be talking about the broader investigation into Russia or possible links to his campaign. I could be wrong, but I took him to be focusing on what had just happened with Flynn’s departure and the controversy around his account of his phone calls.Has anyone ever started a sentence with "I hope you can see your way clear" that wasn't asking for something shady?
Who knew the FBI Director was such a riveting writer too?
posted by zachlipton at 11:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
Comey's description of the group crowded outside the door sort of paints a picture of Reince looking through the keyhole while the rest of the fam keeps their ears pressed to the outside wall.
posted by klarck at 11:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by klarck at 11:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
This makes Trump sound like a teenager desperately trying to worm his way out of the Nice Guy friendzone.
By using The Implication.
posted by dirigibleman at 11:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
By using The Implication.
posted by dirigibleman at 11:15 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Remember, this is just the opening statement. Comey's sure to have lots more to say in open session.
TTTCS
posted by waitangi at 11:16 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
TTTCS
posted by waitangi at 11:16 AM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Wait, what's up with Comey constantly mentioning the grandfather clock?
There are multiple exits from the Oval Office, so he's being specific about which one was used.
posted by Fleebnork at 11:16 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
There are multiple exits from the Oval Office, so he's being specific about which one was used.
posted by Fleebnork at 11:16 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
He takes the time in the introduction to cite that he remembers six phone conversations, but only two of them appear here. Based on the description in the last line of each, they were the last two, which implies that at no time did he inform the President that his earlier statements denying the existence of a personal investigation were no longer true.
posted by solotoro at 11:16 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by solotoro at 11:16 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Presumably so people can hold it up to the light, look for "holes" (like the notion "That's a very interesting thing to specifically mention with no prompting"), and then make sure to ask the right questions during the hearing.
There are also TONS of reports now that the WH is packing Trump's schedule tomorrow so that he cannot live tweet. So now, he's got an entire 18 hours to tweet about it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:16 AM on June 7, 2017 [43 favorites]
There are also TONS of reports now that the WH is packing Trump's schedule tomorrow so that he cannot live tweet. So now, he's got an entire 18 hours to tweet about it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:16 AM on June 7, 2017 [43 favorites]
Oh okay, that makes sense, thanks.
posted by yasaman at 11:17 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by yasaman at 11:17 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait, what's up with Comey constantly mentioning the grandfather clock? It's a really weird detail to consistently include. I get why he'd include the layout of a room and how/where they were seated, but he mentions the clock three times. Why? I mean, it's probably nothing, but it's just one of the weird things that stuck out at me. If this were a novel, I'd say there's something up with the clock.
THERE'S ALWAYS MONEY IN THE BANANA STAND.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:17 AM on June 7, 2017 [66 favorites]
THERE'S ALWAYS MONEY IN THE BANANA STAND.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:17 AM on June 7, 2017 [66 favorites]
In that context, prior to the January 6 meeting, I discussed with the FBI’s leadership team whether I should be prepared to assure President-Elect Trump that we were not investigating him personally. That was true; we did not have an open counter-intelligence case on him.I also expect people who aren't Trump are going to wonder about the specificity of, and potential omissions from, that statement.
"Mr. Comey, you remarked in your written statement that you did not have an 'open counter-intelligence case' on the President. Did you previously have an open counter-intelligence case that had since been closed?
Follow-up question, Mr. Comey: to your knowledge, did the FBI or any other agency have, at that time, or at any time prior, an open case file on the President of another nature--not specifically counter-intelligence, in other words?
Mr. Comey, you stated you did not have an 'open counter-intelligence case' on the President. Did you have any such case open on members of his family at that time, or at any prior time?"
posted by duffell at 11:17 AM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
Wait, what's up with Comey constantly mentioning the grandfather clock? It's a really weird detail to consistently include. I get why he'd include the layout of a room and how/where they were seated, but he mentions the clock three times. Why? I mean, it's probably nothing, but it's just one of the weird things that stuck out at me. If this were a novel, I'd say there's something up with the clock.
Well, in an oval room, how else do you easily indicate which of several doors you're referring to?
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:17 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, in an oval room, how else do you easily indicate which of several doors you're referring to?
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:17 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
You'll have to admire Comey's bureaucratic jujitsu. This morning Trump suddenly announces his candidate for FBI director, without even alerting many WH staffers beforehand - scared of leaks? - so this afternoon, Comey releases his written statement ahead of his hearing. Comey's just guaranteed that his story will be in the headlines and on the news, while Trump's will have to wait in the wings or, at best, share the spotlight.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:18 AM on June 7, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:18 AM on June 7, 2017 [31 favorites]
Wait, what's up with Comey constantly mentioning the grandfather clock?
Maybe he's a big fan of Lev Grossman's "Magicians" books?
posted by wenestvedt at 11:18 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Maybe he's a big fan of Lev Grossman's "Magicians" books?
posted by wenestvedt at 11:18 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
There are also TONS of reports now that the WH is packing Trump's schedule tomorrow so that he cannot live tweet. So now, he's got an entire 18 hours to tweet about it.
Oh. Huh. Slick.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:19 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh. Huh. Slick.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:19 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Here's a floor plan of the West Wing, just for reference.
It's quite a bit different from how the TV series makes it appear.
posted by Fleebnork at 11:19 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's quite a bit different from how the TV series makes it appear.
posted by Fleebnork at 11:19 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ask not for whom the grandfather clock tolls. It tolls for TRUMP.
posted by msalt at 11:19 AM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by msalt at 11:19 AM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
“I've had enough of journalistic flabgabble about Trump”
I’ve had it with these flabgabble snakes on this flabgabble plane!
I find it ironic that it’s exactly the metaphysics – the definition of the fundamental nature of reality – that’s being contested with the press in the middle of it.
Both sides lambast the press.
And indeed anything that doesn't serve an agenda is called "fake news" by the other side.
Look at Galileo and his telescope. Was the problem that his observations were wrong? No.
The problem was Galileo didn’t express just what he observed, but his biblical views ( in a 1615 letter to the Grand Duchess of Tuscany)
And the Roman Catholic Church condemned his views as false and contrary to scripture and so heretical – regardless of what the telescope showed.
The Senate of Venice and mariners meanwhile wanted telescopes to stay focused on navigation and commerce.
In either case it was the narrative - God made the Earth the center of the world vs. We need to make money regardless of what science shows - that was more important than the instrument.
Journalism itself as an instrument of truth, is contested today in the same way. With (political) government and business siding with religion (global warming who?) by default.
“Simply having fact-based messaging is not sufficient to win the information war.”
And indeed, many officials feel absolutely no duty to tell the public ANYTHING at all, even when directed by a congressional panel.
Perhaps 359 years from now, like the telescope, people will accept journalism (and intelligence) as an instrument of clarity, rather than demanding it be pointed a certain way to serve a certain perspective.
It's not merely lying. It's an absolute war on truth. That means all our necks are on the block. They could, quite literally, kill us all. As much as if they sabotaged fire systems with gasoline and poisoned water supplies. It really is that bad.
This War on Truth doesn’t merely violate the niceties of accuracy. It’s also corrosive to the body of trust that’s essential for effective governance and leadership in times of national crisis, such as when President John F. Kennedy rallied public support for his actions during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Trump’s War on Truth jeopardizes Americans’ lives and the well-being of our planet.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:19 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
I’ve had it with these flabgabble snakes on this flabgabble plane!
I find it ironic that it’s exactly the metaphysics – the definition of the fundamental nature of reality – that’s being contested with the press in the middle of it.
Both sides lambast the press.
And indeed anything that doesn't serve an agenda is called "fake news" by the other side.
Look at Galileo and his telescope. Was the problem that his observations were wrong? No.
The problem was Galileo didn’t express just what he observed, but his biblical views ( in a 1615 letter to the Grand Duchess of Tuscany)
And the Roman Catholic Church condemned his views as false and contrary to scripture and so heretical – regardless of what the telescope showed.
The Senate of Venice and mariners meanwhile wanted telescopes to stay focused on navigation and commerce.
In either case it was the narrative - God made the Earth the center of the world vs. We need to make money regardless of what science shows - that was more important than the instrument.
Journalism itself as an instrument of truth, is contested today in the same way. With (political) government and business siding with religion (global warming who?) by default.
“Simply having fact-based messaging is not sufficient to win the information war.”
And indeed, many officials feel absolutely no duty to tell the public ANYTHING at all, even when directed by a congressional panel.
Perhaps 359 years from now, like the telescope, people will accept journalism (and intelligence) as an instrument of clarity, rather than demanding it be pointed a certain way to serve a certain perspective.
It's not merely lying. It's an absolute war on truth. That means all our necks are on the block. They could, quite literally, kill us all. As much as if they sabotaged fire systems with gasoline and poisoned water supplies. It really is that bad.
This War on Truth doesn’t merely violate the niceties of accuracy. It’s also corrosive to the body of trust that’s essential for effective governance and leadership in times of national crisis, such as when President John F. Kennedy rallied public support for his actions during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Trump’s War on Truth jeopardizes Americans’ lives and the well-being of our planet.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:19 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
Doctor Zed, this statement is hosted on the Senate Intelligence Committee's site, so I assume they're the ones that chose the time to post this.
posted by duffell at 11:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by duffell at 11:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Per Raw Story he was planning on live tweeting the hearing. So that Bingo card should see some use.
posted by msbutah at 11:20 AM on June 7, 2017
posted by msbutah at 11:20 AM on June 7, 2017
Could you all imagine how creepy it would be to have a solo dinner with Trump in the Green Room? Did they serve the meatloaf?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wait, what's up with Comey constantly mentioning the grandfather clock?
If this were a movie, that would be where the camera or bug is.
posted by drezdn at 11:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
If this were a movie, that would be where the camera or bug is.
posted by drezdn at 11:20 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Wait, what's up with Comey constantly mentioning the grandfather clock?
The grandfather clock started all the rumors about the microwave to divert attention from itself.
posted by Behemoth at 11:21 AM on June 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
The grandfather clock started all the rumors about the microwave to divert attention from itself.
posted by Behemoth at 11:21 AM on June 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
The grandfather clock is bugged. That's why those tweets about tapes that Spicer won't comment on.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:23 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:23 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
It was unclear from the conversation who else would be at the dinner, although I assumed there would be others.
It turned out to be just the two of us, seated at a small oval table in the center of the Green Room.
A literal horror movie. I had wondered why Comey had even consented to such a dinner in the first place. What an unpleasant surprise. Bet he started feeling nauseous then. He should have sent a text to his FBI underlings to manufacture a work emergency to get him the fuck out of there. Geeze, Comey knows how to paint a picture in the most bland yet unsettling way possible.
posted by yasaman at 11:24 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
It turned out to be just the two of us, seated at a small oval table in the center of the Green Room.
A literal horror movie. I had wondered why Comey had even consented to such a dinner in the first place. What an unpleasant surprise. Bet he started feeling nauseous then. He should have sent a text to his FBI underlings to manufacture a work emergency to get him the fuck out of there. Geeze, Comey knows how to paint a picture in the most bland yet unsettling way possible.
posted by yasaman at 11:24 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
We concluded it made little sense to report it to Attorney General Sessions, who we expected would likely recuse himself from involvement in Russia-related investigations. (He did so two
weeks later.)
For some reason I find that line quite interesting.
posted by azpenguin at 11:25 AM on June 7, 2017 [57 favorites]
weeks later.)
For some reason I find that line quite interesting.
posted by azpenguin at 11:25 AM on June 7, 2017 [57 favorites]
From Comey’s statement:
(I understand it's idiomatic, but even acknowledging the metaphor it feels typically blamey, ready to point the finger at anything not in his control to explain his own lack of progress.)
posted by miles per flower at 11:27 AM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
He [Trump] described the Russia investigation as “a cloud” that was impairing his ability to act on behalf of the country. [...] He asked what we could do to “lift the cloud.”First, obviously: old man yells at cloud. Second: Unless you are a state tree and the way you act on behalf of the country is by fucking photosynthesizing, a cloud is just a preposterously weak and nebulous excuse. He is suggesting he does not have the stamina to deal with... a cloud.
He finished by stressing “the cloud” that was interfering with his ability to make deals for the country and said he hoped I could find a way to get out that he wasn’t being investigated.
On the morning of April 11, the President called me and asked what I had done about his request that I “get out” that he is not personally under investigation. I replied that I had passed his request to the Acting Deputy Attorney General, but I had not heard back. He replied that “the cloud” was getting in the way of his ability to do his job.
(I understand it's idiomatic, but even acknowledging the metaphor it feels typically blamey, ready to point the finger at anything not in his control to explain his own lack of progress.)
posted by miles per flower at 11:27 AM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
Still waiting for the bit when Jeff Sessions vomits a gallon of garmonbozia all over the President.
posted by duffell at 11:27 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by duffell at 11:27 AM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Trump" only appears 14 times in 7 pages, so it's an open question whether it will hold his attention long enough that he'll read the whole thing. Maybe his staff will replace every use of "the President" with "TRUMP!!!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:29 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:29 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
The President began by asking me whether I wanted to stay on as FBI Director, which I found strange because he had already told me twice in earlier conversations that he hoped I would stay, and I had assured him that I intended to.
Yeah, that's because he forgot those prior conversations he had with you about 5 minutes after he had them.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:30 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, that's because he forgot those prior conversations he had with you about 5 minutes after he had them.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:30 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I dunno, Trump saying there is no pee tape and that he DEFINITELY 100% WAS NOT INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA, and that OF COURSE HE KNEW HE WAS BEING RECORDED THERE, GOD tips me well over onto the side of assuming the pee tape does, in fact, exist. All it was missing was a "believe me!!!!"
posted by yasaman at 11:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [69 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 11:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [69 favorites]
Why wouldn't there be a pee tape? I mean, I'm not putting all my hopes and dreams on a) its existence or b) its revelation, but you can't tell me that doesn't sound like something he'd totally do, can you?
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:32 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: James Comey, is this man bothering you?
Here is a look at the texts that I am sure passed between Attorney General Jeff Sessions and then-FBI Director James B. Comey.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:34 AM on June 7, 2017 [70 favorites]
[…]
Comey: it’s not an issue most of the time
I just don’t want anything inappropriate to happen
I already have a plan in place with my posse at the FBI where if we are in a restaurant and Donald Trump comes up and starts acting weird I say “GOLLY” and then Agent J interposes himself and says “is this guy bothering you” and I sneak out through the bathroom
it’s just sometimes I am not with my posse
I have tried inviting Karen Pence to all my dinners because that means you get TWO people, Karen and Mike, if I am understanding their deal correctly
but she and I keep different hours
the other day I was waiting for the subway and I saw him coming toward me but I made meaningful eye contact with a woman on the platform and she came over and pretended like we were best friends and walked me all the way home so that that he wouldn’t get the chance to corner me
I still owe her one
I wonder what happened to her
two nights ago he tried to come up to me at a bar and ask if I was loyal and I had my friend pretend that HE was my president and that I couldn’t even think of talking to anyone else or he’d get very upset
but it didn’t work for as long as I needed it to and finally we had to sneak out the back and in the process I inadvertently gave him my cellphone number
I told him my name was Murray Showboat but I don’t think he knows the difference
I have two cellphones now
on one of them the message just says “HI I HOPE YOU AREN’T CALLING ME TO ASK FOR LOYALTY OR ABOUT THE MIKE FLYNN THING BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE WAY INAPPROPRIATE” but I worry he thought it was an in-joke
I just need backup
Sessions: go on
I dunno, Trump saying there is no pee tape and that he DEFINITELY 100% WAS NOT INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA, and that OF COURSE HE KNEW HE WAS BEING RECORDED THERE, GOD tips me well over onto the side of assuming the pee tape does, in fact, exist. All it was missing was a "believe me!!!!"
Yeah, I'll be honest: I didn't, and still don't, believe that it exists, but that Comey felt it necessary to specifically mention that Trump denied being involved with "hookers" and knew he was being recorded tips the scale a teeny bit in the other direction. Maybe more than a teeny bit.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:35 AM on June 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
Yeah, I'll be honest: I didn't, and still don't, believe that it exists, but that Comey felt it necessary to specifically mention that Trump denied being involved with "hookers" and knew he was being recorded tips the scale a teeny bit in the other direction. Maybe more than a teeny bit.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:35 AM on June 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
I'm picking up on two main threads here:
Trump asking to "let this go" with regard to Flynn.
Trump wanting Comey to make public statements clearing him personally
The first is most interesting in terms of the question of whether Trump obstructed justice. The second raises a number of questions about Trump's judgement. It also cuts to Comey's role with the Clinton emails, since it's honestly not a stretch for Trump to conclude from watching 2016 and knowing nothing else about the FBI that Comey's job was to make statements about whether politicians did something wrong.
What's left unsaid is who else in Trump's orbit is being investigated. Republicans will lock onto Trump not being under personal investigation (ok, they already have, I've read Ben Shapiro's hottake already), but if his campaign or the people around him were, as has been reported, does that matter? And can it still be argued that Trump isn't under personal investigation if Mueller is supposed to be investigating whether Trump obstructed justice?
The bit in which Trump says it would be good to find out if any "satellite" associates did anything wrong is rich too, given Trump's insistence that everything is fake news. In private, he seems far more open to the idea that people around him might have problems, as long as Comey makes it clear that none of it comes back to him personally.
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump asking to "let this go" with regard to Flynn.
Trump wanting Comey to make public statements clearing him personally
The first is most interesting in terms of the question of whether Trump obstructed justice. The second raises a number of questions about Trump's judgement. It also cuts to Comey's role with the Clinton emails, since it's honestly not a stretch for Trump to conclude from watching 2016 and knowing nothing else about the FBI that Comey's job was to make statements about whether politicians did something wrong.
What's left unsaid is who else in Trump's orbit is being investigated. Republicans will lock onto Trump not being under personal investigation (ok, they already have, I've read Ben Shapiro's hottake already), but if his campaign or the people around him were, as has been reported, does that matter? And can it still be argued that Trump isn't under personal investigation if Mueller is supposed to be investigating whether Trump obstructed justice?
The bit in which Trump says it would be good to find out if any "satellite" associates did anything wrong is rich too, given Trump's insistence that everything is fake news. In private, he seems far more open to the idea that people around him might have problems, as long as Comey makes it clear that none of it comes back to him personally.
posted by zachlipton at 11:36 AM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
cloudy with a chance of meatloaf
posted by murphy slaw at 11:36 AM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 11:36 AM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
Guys, there is no pee tape. Geez, it is like the left's version of Michelle Obama's non-existent "hate whitey" tape.
Given how much of the Steele dossier has, bit by bit, been corroborated, I think it does exist. I don't, however, think it will ever see the light of day because no one outside of the Kremlin has a copy of it. No one has it to, um, leak to the press or internet in the US.
posted by azpenguin at 11:37 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Given how much of the Steele dossier has, bit by bit, been corroborated, I think it does exist. I don't, however, think it will ever see the light of day because no one outside of the Kremlin has a copy of it. No one has it to, um, leak to the press or internet in the US.
posted by azpenguin at 11:37 AM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Then the President asked why there had been a congressional hearing about Russia the previous week – at which I had, as the Department of Justice directed, confirmed the investigation into possible coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign. I explained the demands from the leadership of both parties in Congress for more information, and that Senator Grassley had even held up the confirmation of the Deputy Attorney General until we briefed him in detail on the investigation. I explained that we had briefed the leadership of Congress on exactly which individuals we were investigating and that we had told those Congressional leaders that we were not personally investigating President Trump. I reminded him I had previously told him that. He repeatedly told me, “We need to get that fact out.” (I did not tell the President that the FBI and the Department of Justice had been reluctant to make public statements that we did not have an open case on President Trump for a number of reasons, most importantly because it would create a duty to correct, should that change.)
It's like the President really doesn't get how this works, does he? Like he expects that he's the CEO of America. Just snap your fingers and people do your bidding. "How come there's a hearing about Russia when I asked you to make this go away?" He's either painfully corrupt or woefully incompetent, and either way wholly unfit to sit in the Oval Office.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:37 AM on June 7, 2017 [36 favorites]
It's like the President really doesn't get how this works, does he? Like he expects that he's the CEO of America. Just snap your fingers and people do your bidding. "How come there's a hearing about Russia when I asked you to make this go away?" He's either painfully corrupt or woefully incompetent, and either way wholly unfit to sit in the Oval Office.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:37 AM on June 7, 2017 [36 favorites]
Doctor Zed, this statement is hosted on the Senate Intelligence Committee's site, so I assume they're the ones that chose the time to post this.
I know, but I genuinely doubt it would be released without Comey's awareness/OK. (The timing also plays into Wittes's tick-tick tweet.) It's of course possible that the timing was planned all along and not moved up because of anything the WH did, as it's not uncommon for prepared statements to be made available beforehand, but it's less so with the most important hearings. (I don't believe Sally Yates's prepared statement came out ahead of her testimony, for example.) Whatever the case, the proverbial pump has been primed for Comey tomorrow.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:37 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I know, but I genuinely doubt it would be released without Comey's awareness/OK. (The timing also plays into Wittes's tick-tick tweet.) It's of course possible that the timing was planned all along and not moved up because of anything the WH did, as it's not uncommon for prepared statements to be made available beforehand, but it's less so with the most important hearings. (I don't believe Sally Yates's prepared statement came out ahead of her testimony, for example.) Whatever the case, the proverbial pump has been primed for Comey tomorrow.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:37 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
The grandfather clock definitely is a fun detail.... I'm sure that it really was to make a detail of which entrance was used, but I think I've been exposed to way too much psychological horror fiction to be able to see it as anything quite so benign.
> It was at this point that I noticed that the grandfather clock was running backwards. I heard it strike 13 times as the room took on an ominous hue, and then the clock stopped moving entirely. There was an immediate eerie silence - as if time itself had stopped. Bannon, who I had not previously noticed in the room, appeared to float in front of Trump, and proceeded to move directly into him, as if he was superimposed upon Trump. There was a sudden cracking sound, and the room returned to normal, along with the motion of the grandfather clock. Trumps demeanor noticeably changed from this point forward, and his motions were much more jerky and awkward - as if his limbs were being manipulated by a not particularly adept puppeteer.
[fake, obv.]
posted by MysticMCJ at 11:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
> It was at this point that I noticed that the grandfather clock was running backwards. I heard it strike 13 times as the room took on an ominous hue, and then the clock stopped moving entirely. There was an immediate eerie silence - as if time itself had stopped. Bannon, who I had not previously noticed in the room, appeared to float in front of Trump, and proceeded to move directly into him, as if he was superimposed upon Trump. There was a sudden cracking sound, and the room returned to normal, along with the motion of the grandfather clock. Trumps demeanor noticeably changed from this point forward, and his motions were much more jerky and awkward - as if his limbs were being manipulated by a not particularly adept puppeteer.
[fake, obv.]
posted by MysticMCJ at 11:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
Comey is so good at dangling hooks out there. He specifically mentions that there were nine one-on-one interactions with Trump, and then describes some of the nine in great detail. Are we to presume the others were entirely unremarkable? Or just that he decided to save their content for direct questioning? Maybe he felt they only reinforced the pattern which is outlined well enough in what he did include to open.
He's still got a lot of dry powder.
posted by meinvt at 11:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
He's still got a lot of dry powder.
posted by meinvt at 11:41 AM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
> It's like the President really doesn't get how this works, does he? Like he expects that he's the CEO of America. Just snap your fingers and people do your bidding. "How come there's a hearing about Russia when I asked you to make this go away?" He's either painfully corrupt or woefully incompetent, and either way wholly unfit to sit in the Oval Office.
Rob Ford and his brother Doug, who was a city councilor and fancied himself the power behind the throne, also apparently thought running Toronto would be like running the sticker company they inherited from their father; just tell people what to do and they'll do it, or else. And when they ran into resistance they had no plan B, no frame of reference for what to do instead, and their agenda mostly died on the vine.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:42 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
Rob Ford and his brother Doug, who was a city councilor and fancied himself the power behind the throne, also apparently thought running Toronto would be like running the sticker company they inherited from their father; just tell people what to do and they'll do it, or else. And when they ran into resistance they had no plan B, no frame of reference for what to do instead, and their agenda mostly died on the vine.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:42 AM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
What's fascinating from the Comey statement is how clear it was that two men in that room were having two entirely different conversations, and that that one of them was oblivious to that fact.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:50 AM on June 7, 2017 [78 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 11:50 AM on June 7, 2017 [78 favorites]
Comey: During the dinner, the President returned to the salacious material I had briefed him about on January 6, and, as he had done previously, expressed his disgust for the allegations and strongly denied them. He said he was considering ordering me to investigate the alleged incident to prove it didn’t happen.
This "considering ordering me to investigate" totally fits Trumps M.O. of saying what he thinks will be seen favorably despite having no intention of following through. It's like all his announced charitable donations that didn't happen, or announcing that he's removing himself from his businesses by showing a mountain of blank papers.
posted by stopgap at 11:50 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
This "considering ordering me to investigate" totally fits Trumps M.O. of saying what he thinks will be seen favorably despite having no intention of following through. It's like all his announced charitable donations that didn't happen, or announcing that he's removing himself from his businesses by showing a mountain of blank papers.
posted by stopgap at 11:50 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
RIP anyone who reads Comey's statement with cloud-to-butt installed. You will be missed.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 11:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
this statement is hosted on the Senate Intelligence Committee's site, so I assume they're the ones that chose the time to post this
And it's also not uncommon for congressional committees to post testimony ahead of a hearing, so I don't think too much should be read into it.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 11:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
And it's also not uncommon for congressional committees to post testimony ahead of a hearing, so I don't think too much should be read into it.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 11:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Comey's agreement with Sen. Burr was to release the statement today.
Lawfare has some decent Takeaways From Comey's Prepared Testimony for the Senate Select Intelligence Committee for your perusal. The important message here is that it's about a pattern of conduct, not single incidents. The whole story reads much better together, in that the inappropriate requests are read in the context of Trump repeatedly bringing up whether Comey would get to keep his job and the loyalty pledge.
posted by zachlipton at 11:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Lawfare has some decent Takeaways From Comey's Prepared Testimony for the Senate Select Intelligence Committee for your perusal. The important message here is that it's about a pattern of conduct, not single incidents. The whole story reads much better together, in that the inappropriate requests are read in the context of Trump repeatedly bringing up whether Comey would get to keep his job and the loyalty pledge.
posted by zachlipton at 11:51 AM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
If any Congressional Republicans actually gave a shit this might actually be worth something.
From the moment Jeff Sessions did the unthinkable and actually recused himself, this investigation is one area where we are making incremental progress. While we stumbled in the House, tomorrow James Comey is testifying in an open Senate hearing, and has a pretty interesting opening statement.
As long as Ted Lieu and Maxine Waters and Elizabeth Warren and Al Franken don't think it's a waste of their time I'm going to support them. Honestly, these "it's all nothing burger" comments bum me out as much as the end of the world comments.
He [Trump] described the Russia investigation as “a cloud” that was impairing his ability to act on behalf of the country. [...] He asked what we could do to “lift the cloud.”
Do you think Comey wanted to lean over and blow away the cloud witha little *puff* because that's what I'm would do.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:52 AM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
From the moment Jeff Sessions did the unthinkable and actually recused himself, this investigation is one area where we are making incremental progress. While we stumbled in the House, tomorrow James Comey is testifying in an open Senate hearing, and has a pretty interesting opening statement.
As long as Ted Lieu and Maxine Waters and Elizabeth Warren and Al Franken don't think it's a waste of their time I'm going to support them. Honestly, these "it's all nothing burger" comments bum me out as much as the end of the world comments.
He [Trump] described the Russia investigation as “a cloud” that was impairing his ability to act on behalf of the country. [...] He asked what we could do to “lift the cloud.”
Do you think Comey wanted to lean over and blow away the cloud witha little *puff* because that's what I'm would do.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:52 AM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
"Salacious" material that would cause Trump "potential embarrassment' concerning a specific "incident", that the media reported on. What else could it be but the pee tape? But since Comey said it was 'unverified', he is not confirming its authenticity.
posted by kitcat at 11:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kitcat at 11:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was fascinated by Comey being willing to drop the subject of loyalty. Maybe it's just me and an over-nice conscience but I could not walk away from that conversation knowing full well that my boss thought I'd just been bought with some meatloaf and a visit in the oval office. I'd've been compelled to make it clear to him that my honesty and my loyalty were two separate things and he was only entitled to the former.
posted by winna at 11:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by winna at 11:53 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
> I just think that even in this timeline, it's too ridiculous and over the top.
Somewhere out there, this timeline turns to another timeline and says "Hold my beer."
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [87 favorites]
Somewhere out there, this timeline turns to another timeline and says "Hold my beer."
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:54 AM on June 7, 2017 [87 favorites]
I'd've been compelled to make it clear to him that my honesty and my loyalty were two separate things and he was only entitled to the former.
Well yeah, but as 2016 proved, James Comey is more interested in himself than his integrity, so it's perfectly in character for him to fudge it so as to keep his job.
posted by zachlipton at 11:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well yeah, but as 2016 proved, James Comey is more interested in himself than his integrity, so it's perfectly in character for him to fudge it so as to keep his job.
posted by zachlipton at 11:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Mr. Comey, you remarked in your written statement that you did not have an 'open counter-intelligence case' on the President. Did you previously have an open counter-intelligence case that had since been closed?
Follow-up question, Mr. Comey: to your knowledge, did the FBI or any other agency have, at that time, or at any time prior, an open case file on the President of another nature--not specifically counter-intelligence, in other words?
Mr. Comey, you stated you did not have an 'open counter-intelligence case' on the President. Did you have any such case open on members of his family at that time, or at any prior time?"
Or, questions about whether or not an investigation was opened after these conversations. Regardless of what's asked, though, Comey's gonna Comey: "I can not comment on yada yada in open session etc". And that non-answer will keep the question open and drive Trump insane.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Follow-up question, Mr. Comey: to your knowledge, did the FBI or any other agency have, at that time, or at any time prior, an open case file on the President of another nature--not specifically counter-intelligence, in other words?
Mr. Comey, you stated you did not have an 'open counter-intelligence case' on the President. Did you have any such case open on members of his family at that time, or at any prior time?"
Or, questions about whether or not an investigation was opened after these conversations. Regardless of what's asked, though, Comey's gonna Comey: "I can not comment on yada yada in open session etc". And that non-answer will keep the question open and drive Trump insane.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Welllll, it wasn't really so much a golden shower as a urine-based dominance display intended to insult the Obamas, sooooo....
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:55 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Some Presidents only want that thing, that thing, that thiiiiiing.
posted by asteria at 11:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by asteria at 11:56 AM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
"No pee tape! No pee tape! You're the pee tape!"
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:57 AM on June 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:57 AM on June 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
"Salacious" material that would cause Trump "potential embarrassment' concerning a specific "incident", that the media reported on. What else could it be but the pee tape?
Back when the Russia connection was first floated, there was scuttlebutt about a tape from the 2013 Miss Universe event in Russia where Trump was involved with ladies (who were not his wife) in various stages of undress (and possibly underage or not). Then the pee tape came along and since that's a lot more fun to talk about the former was forgotten.
posted by splen at 12:00 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Back when the Russia connection was first floated, there was scuttlebutt about a tape from the 2013 Miss Universe event in Russia where Trump was involved with ladies (who were not his wife) in various stages of undress (and possibly underage or not). Then the pee tape came along and since that's a lot more fun to talk about the former was forgotten.
posted by splen at 12:00 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
I just think that even in this timeline, it's too ridiculous and over the top.
Remember in 2016, when Trump's idiot kid shot and killed the totem animal of the Republican party while on safari?
I guess what I'm saying is, I'm ruling nothing out, unless and until Trump insists that HE wasn't the subject of an extortion attempt by the Kremlin, YOU'RE the one who the Russians taped peeing on prostitutes.
posted by Mayor West at 12:00 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Remember in 2016, when Trump's idiot kid shot and killed the totem animal of the Republican party while on safari?
I guess what I'm saying is, I'm ruling nothing out, unless and until Trump insists that HE wasn't the subject of an extortion attempt by the Kremlin, YOU'RE the one who the Russians taped peeing on prostitutes.
posted by Mayor West at 12:00 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
If the pee tape was real wouldn't Trump have shown it off to his base of Obama haters already? To boost his approval ratings or something?
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
And the totem animal of the US tried to attack Trump, let's not forget that!
posted by asteria at 12:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by asteria at 12:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is amazing. I'm assuming this is what the ticking was about. Am I wrong?
I believe it was the grandfather clock.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:05 PM on June 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
I believe it was the grandfather clock.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:05 PM on June 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
Trump doesn't have the pee tape, if it exists. The Russians do. And if it does exist, they aren't gonna leak it or otherwise make it public unless/until Trump stops playing ball with them. There's nothing to gain.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 12:05 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 12:05 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Then the pee tape came along and since that's a lot more fun to talk about the former was forgotten.
Agreed. The pee tape is pretty salacious, but if true, it's merely embarrassing and/or low-level illegal. If there's actual kompromat on Donald, it has to be something well beyond embarrassing, and into highly illegal. The pee tape isn't it, whatever 'it' is.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:07 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Agreed. The pee tape is pretty salacious, but if true, it's merely embarrassing and/or low-level illegal. If there's actual kompromat on Donald, it has to be something well beyond embarrassing, and into highly illegal. The pee tape isn't it, whatever 'it' is.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:07 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
I've read Comey's statement twice, and Lawfare's take as well. My feeling is that this is vintage Comey. It's Hillary and the emails all over again - he's going to make a statement that criticizes the subject, insinuates all sorts of bad behavior, but then say the person didn't really do anything illegal. (Note that he specifically says he interpreted Trump to be talking about Russia only in the context of Flynn.) He's again playing politics, trying to make both sides happy, give both of them something to point to, and nothing will be solved and no one will be satisfied.
I hope I'm wrong; I hope this is just the floor or baseline. But I think he's going to be like his buddies today and refuse to budge from his statement. So I hope somebody on that committee is a former prosecutor. Or that Sen. King goes medieval on him.
posted by martin q blank at 12:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
I hope I'm wrong; I hope this is just the floor or baseline. But I think he's going to be like his buddies today and refuse to budge from his statement. So I hope somebody on that committee is a former prosecutor. Or that Sen. King goes medieval on him.
posted by martin q blank at 12:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'd've been compelled to make it clear to him that my honesty and my loyalty were two separate things and he was only entitled to the former.
Well yeah, but as 2016 proved, James Comey is more interested in himself than his integrity, so it's perfectly in character for him to fudge it so as to keep his job.
No, it's true, but it's interesting to me that he shows us all his perfect willingness to allow people to believe whatever they want if they don't listen closely. It's a look at his ethical sense and what is really intriguing to me is that he is the one putting it on the table. It's positively Henry James in a way.
I have had bosses like Trump before and watching (albeit at fiftieth hand) what someone else does in those kinds of predicaments is very instructive.
posted by winna at 12:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well yeah, but as 2016 proved, James Comey is more interested in himself than his integrity, so it's perfectly in character for him to fudge it so as to keep his job.
No, it's true, but it's interesting to me that he shows us all his perfect willingness to allow people to believe whatever they want if they don't listen closely. It's a look at his ethical sense and what is really intriguing to me is that he is the one putting it on the table. It's positively Henry James in a way.
I have had bosses like Trump before and watching (albeit at fiftieth hand) what someone else does in those kinds of predicaments is very instructive.
posted by winna at 12:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
If there's actual kompromat on Donald, it has to be something well beyond embarrassing, and into highly illegal. The pee tape isn't it, whatever 'it' is.
I'm pretty sure it's Russian loans and money laundering.
posted by diogenes at 12:10 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm pretty sure it's Russian loans and money laundering.
posted by diogenes at 12:10 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
but then say the person didn't really do anything illegal. (Note that he specifically says he interpreted Trump to be talking about Russia only in the context of Flynn.)
That's still obstruction of justice.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's still obstruction of justice.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
"had not been involved with hookers in Russia,"
They were just regular Russian women totally into him. And of course he wouldn't have paid them, so how could they be hookers?
posted by mikepop at 12:13 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
They were just regular Russian women totally into him. And of course he wouldn't have paid them, so how could they be hookers?
posted by mikepop at 12:13 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
That's still obstruction of justice.
Yeah, I agree; I'm just afraid he's going to back away from it, like today where Rogers refused to say he was pressured. Comey will find some way to explain it away. I remember listening to his Hillary statement and thinking, well, that sounds like he's going to recommend charges. And nope, no intent, so no charges. He's going to weasel it somehow.
posted by martin q blank at 12:14 PM on June 7, 2017
Yeah, I agree; I'm just afraid he's going to back away from it, like today where Rogers refused to say he was pressured. Comey will find some way to explain it away. I remember listening to his Hillary statement and thinking, well, that sounds like he's going to recommend charges. And nope, no intent, so no charges. He's going to weasel it somehow.
posted by martin q blank at 12:14 PM on June 7, 2017
I PEE-LIEVE
posted by Going To Maine at 12:15 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 12:15 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
If you don't pay your contractors are they really doing any work for you?
thoughtfulsmilie.jpg
posted by winna at 12:15 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
thoughtfulsmilie.jpg
posted by winna at 12:15 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure it's Russian loans and money laundering.
Too abstract and not obviously wrong in Donald's mind. It has to be something which makes Donald say "OH SHIT I'M IN SHIT", and gets him to listen to someone else's demands. Money laundering would simply be a business opportunity, and those laws are stupid anyway.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:15 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Too abstract and not obviously wrong in Donald's mind. It has to be something which makes Donald say "OH SHIT I'M IN SHIT", and gets him to listen to someone else's demands. Money laundering would simply be a business opportunity, and those laws are stupid anyway.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:15 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
They were just regular Russian women totally into him. And of course he wouldn't have paid them, so how could they be hookers?
In all seriousness, imagine the narcissistic injury he must feel to find out that those women who were so into him were actually being paid by the Russians to have play time with Donnie.
posted by peeedro at 12:16 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
In all seriousness, imagine the narcissistic injury he must feel to find out that those women who were so into him were actually being paid by the Russians to have play time with Donnie.
posted by peeedro at 12:16 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
It has to be something which makes Donald say "OH SHIT I'M IN SHIT"
I'm pretty certain the only thing able to rise to that level is a back-hand from Fred Trump.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 12:17 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm pretty certain the only thing able to rise to that level is a back-hand from Fred Trump.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 12:17 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
As far as I'm aware, the dossier did not mention the gender of the alleged sex workers.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:19 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:19 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Benjamin Wittes has some initial thoughts up as well, ticking-free.
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
It turned out to be just the two of us, seated at a small oval table in the center of the Green Room.
Wikipedia:
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:22 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wikipedia:
It was in the Green Room that William Wallace Lincoln, the third son of President Abraham Lincoln, was embalmed following his death (most likely from typhoid).What a charming locale for a dinner party.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:22 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
It has to be something which makes Donald say "OH SHIT I'M IN SHIT"
I think Charlie Pierce has summed up the presumed scandal pretty well:
His election was allegedly corrupted by Russian money and Russian influence, probably because his business empire is allegedly corrupted by Russian money and Russian influence. In turn, his government was allegedly corrupted by its attempt to cover up Russian money and Russian influence.
There doesn't have to be anything more seamy than dirty money coming from sanctioned banks for this to be outrageous.
posted by Think_Long at 12:22 PM on June 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
I think Charlie Pierce has summed up the presumed scandal pretty well:
His election was allegedly corrupted by Russian money and Russian influence, probably because his business empire is allegedly corrupted by Russian money and Russian influence. In turn, his government was allegedly corrupted by its attempt to cover up Russian money and Russian influence.
There doesn't have to be anything more seamy than dirty money coming from sanctioned banks for this to be outrageous.
posted by Think_Long at 12:22 PM on June 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
Why release the statement before the hearing?
Maybe they can bait Trump into tweeting about it until the hearing.
This, exactly. As a kid I used to play chess with a friend of mine. We were pretty evenly matched until I learned that if I left a piece undefended within range of one of his, he would stop everything else to capture my unguarded knight or whatever. I could be -- and often was -- a single move away from checkmate, but he simply could not see if there was a short-range gain in material.
I think I understand how Comey feels.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:23 PM on June 7, 2017 [46 favorites]
Maybe they can bait Trump into tweeting about it until the hearing.
This, exactly. As a kid I used to play chess with a friend of mine. We were pretty evenly matched until I learned that if I left a piece undefended within range of one of his, he would stop everything else to capture my unguarded knight or whatever. I could be -- and often was -- a single move away from checkmate, but he simply could not see if there was a short-range gain in material.
I think I understand how Comey feels.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:23 PM on June 7, 2017 [46 favorites]
I think we'll find out about a tape when the Russians want us to. The "leaks" are entirely under their control. The rumor mill a few days ago was that it was a tape much worse, of something very bad with a very underage girl.
posted by bongo_x at 12:24 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 12:24 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pence was scheduled to give an interview to PBS Newshour today; he just cancelled.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:26 PM on June 7, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:26 PM on June 7, 2017 [42 favorites]
I just don't think Comey would use the word "salacious" in anything other than its proper sense (sexual, not merely 'juicy').
posted by kitcat at 12:27 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kitcat at 12:27 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Honestly, these "it's all nothing burger" comments bum me out as much as the end of the world comments.
Think of them as a shield against future disappointment after more than a year and a half of "Surely THIS will be the thing what brings down pissboy." Sure, I'm hopeful this time it will be, but until I see some meat charring on the grill, I'm not getting too excited at the thought that my Double-Double is getting served up any time soon.
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 12:28 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Think of them as a shield against future disappointment after more than a year and a half of "Surely THIS will be the thing what brings down pissboy." Sure, I'm hopeful this time it will be, but until I see some meat charring on the grill, I'm not getting too excited at the thought that my Double-Double is getting served up any time soon.
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 12:28 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
For those who were wondering upthread, per Bradd Jaffy's tweet via Ken Dilanian at NBC, Comey's testimony was released today at Comey's request.
posted by yasaman at 12:28 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 12:28 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
On the Benjamin Wittes piece that zachlipton posted.
It’s hard to express to people who are not steeped in federal law enforcement just how inappropriate these inquiries are, particularly when they involve an investigation in which the President has such deep and multifaceted personal stakes. No, they are not illegal. The President, after all, has constitutional authority to ask for whatever information he wants from his subordinates in the executive branch.
To make this shows what is at stake here - and I am not at all sure which way it will go. If this is not brushed back hard, explicitly political investigations (or non-investigations) will be a common occurrence in the future.
posted by shothotbot at 12:29 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
It’s hard to express to people who are not steeped in federal law enforcement just how inappropriate these inquiries are, particularly when they involve an investigation in which the President has such deep and multifaceted personal stakes. No, they are not illegal. The President, after all, has constitutional authority to ask for whatever information he wants from his subordinates in the executive branch.
To make this shows what is at stake here - and I am not at all sure which way it will go. If this is not brushed back hard, explicitly political investigations (or non-investigations) will be a common occurrence in the future.
posted by shothotbot at 12:29 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I just don't think Comey would use the word "salacious"
Are we sure there isn't a Salacious Crumb Tape?
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:30 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Are we sure there isn't a Salacious Crumb Tape?
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:30 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
If there's actual kompromat on Donald, it has to be something well beyond embarrassing, and into highly illegal. The pee tape isn't it, whatever 'it' is.
Trump is clearly doing the bidding of the Russians, and there are four plausible reasons for blackmail:
1) Financial involvement with Russian/former Soviet mobsters. Plenty of documented connections.
2) the "pee tape"
3) videotape of sexual someting with underage girls or men of any age, or
4) collusion in hacking and influencing the election, through contacts with his campaign.
The real answer could very well be 5) all of the above.
Of all of these, the pee tape is the mildest -- Trump, maybe fully clothed, watching women pee on a bed. If Russia has it and is leaking information to that effect, it may be so that if necessary, then can release the tape as a distraction from the other 3. And Trump's defenders will say "OK, that's awkward, but it's out now so they can't use it against him. Let's just move forward."
posted by msalt at 12:30 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump is clearly doing the bidding of the Russians, and there are four plausible reasons for blackmail:
1) Financial involvement with Russian/former Soviet mobsters. Plenty of documented connections.
2) the "pee tape"
3) videotape of sexual someting with underage girls or men of any age, or
4) collusion in hacking and influencing the election, through contacts with his campaign.
The real answer could very well be 5) all of the above.
Of all of these, the pee tape is the mildest -- Trump, maybe fully clothed, watching women pee on a bed. If Russia has it and is leaking information to that effect, it may be so that if necessary, then can release the tape as a distraction from the other 3. And Trump's defenders will say "OK, that's awkward, but it's out now so they can't use it against him. Let's just move forward."
posted by msalt at 12:30 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
If this is not brushed back hard, explicitly political investigations (or non-investigations) will be a common occurrence in the future.
Haven't that been happening pretty regularly at least since the 90s?
posted by drezdn at 12:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Haven't that been happening pretty regularly at least since the 90s?
posted by drezdn at 12:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Think of them as a shield against future disappointment after more than a year and a half of "Surely THIS will be the thing what brings down pissboy." Sure, I'm hopeful this time it will be, but until I see some meat charring on the grill, I'm not getting too excited at the thought that my Double-Double is getting served up any time soon.
How about no. The cumulative effect of encouraging people to just roll over and expect that nothing will happen is that it deadens the sense of outrage needed to resist, to encourage elected officials to hold 45 accountable, and to even imagine a reality different from the one we're already living in. It's undermining, it encourages apathy, and it's not really productive, not least of all for folks who are clinging to hope in order to prevent drowning in despair.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 12:38 PM on June 7, 2017 [56 favorites]
How about no. The cumulative effect of encouraging people to just roll over and expect that nothing will happen is that it deadens the sense of outrage needed to resist, to encourage elected officials to hold 45 accountable, and to even imagine a reality different from the one we're already living in. It's undermining, it encourages apathy, and it's not really productive, not least of all for folks who are clinging to hope in order to prevent drowning in despair.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 12:38 PM on June 7, 2017 [56 favorites]
I love the "the tape can't exist because I knew better than to get recorded" excuse because it's coming from the man who talked about how much he like grabbing women by the pussy while wearing a lapel mic mere seconds before he knew he would be appearing on camera. Yeah, this guy definitely has high self-awareness about when someone might be taping him.
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:40 PM on June 7, 2017 [102 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:40 PM on June 7, 2017 [102 favorites]
Comey parody memos have already started appearing, and they are fan-fic-a-licious.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:40 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:40 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
I could be -- and often was -- a single move away from checkmate, but he simply could not see if there was a short-range gain in material.
"When you come at the king, you best not --- hey, what's that over there?"
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:48 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
"When you come at the king, you best not --- hey, what's that over there?"
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:48 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Official RNC twitter trying to spin this is hilarious. Some of the replies are quite droll.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:49 PM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:49 PM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
"the tape can't exist because I knew better than to get recorded"
Nononono! I just remembered. The original Tired of WinningTM Excuse was "I'm a big germaphobe, so of course the tape doesn't exist!"
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:49 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Nononono! I just remembered. The original Tired of WinningTM Excuse was "I'm a big germaphobe, so of course the tape doesn't exist!"
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:49 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Jennifer Jacobs of Bloomberg just now asked Sarah Sanders if Trump stands by his statement he didn't ask Comey for his loyalty or ask to drop probe; Sarah Sanders "can't imagine" him not. So stand by for Trump telling Sarah to hold his beer.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:52 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:52 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
One thing Wittes' piece made me realize is that I initially read the description on page two of how counter-intelligence investigations work as a sort of boilerplate, but there's something important in there. These investigations are centered around specific people who the FBI thinks might be foreign agents. When the FBI suspects that you might be a foreign agent, wittingly or not, they "open an investigation" on you.
And that's the framing for Comey's answers to whether Trump is "under investigation." The GOP is now harping on the fact that the statement confirms that Comey told Trump three times that he was not under investigation, as claimed. Comey is narrowing "under investigation" to precisely mean that Donald Trump was not personally the target of a counter-intelligence investigation. That's important and not great news if you think that Trump was personally at the center of collusion, but largely meaningless to the questions we've been asking, which cut to the actions of his closest advisors.
The other problem we're going to see soon is the difference between laws and norms. Most of what Trump is accused of doing here is a violation of the norms and guidelines that have been setup to avoid improper interaction between law enforcement and political officials. That's all deeply disturbing if you don't want to see the FBI turned into the President's private plaything, but Republicans are going to ask "so what." So what if Trump asked Comey stuff? He's inexperienced and doesn't waste time with bureaucracy and cuts right to the chase. So what if Trump asked for Comey's loyalty? Ain't no rules says the President can't ask for loyalty. So what if Trump asked Comey to let Flynn go? Comey didn't say he would. So what if Trump asked Comey to say publicly what he was willing to say privately? If he can tell Trump in person he's not under investigation, surely he could tell the press.
And while I disagree with those characterizations, we're going to be hearing them an awful lot soon. If there's one thing Trump has shown, it's that violations of longstanding and important governmental norms are not something the GOP cares one bit about as long as Trump is in office.
Now, there's a bunch of stuff not in this document: ongoing investigations into people like Flynn and Kushner and Trump's firing of Comey chief among them. I suspect we'll hear questions about these things and more tomorrow. I expect and am stocked up on popcorn for further bombshells. And I don't discount the cumulative effect of everything piling up over time. But the main response from Republicans to everything from Mexican rapists to Muslim bans to sexual assault bragging has been "so what?," and I don't see that changing.
posted by zachlipton at 12:54 PM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
And that's the framing for Comey's answers to whether Trump is "under investigation." The GOP is now harping on the fact that the statement confirms that Comey told Trump three times that he was not under investigation, as claimed. Comey is narrowing "under investigation" to precisely mean that Donald Trump was not personally the target of a counter-intelligence investigation. That's important and not great news if you think that Trump was personally at the center of collusion, but largely meaningless to the questions we've been asking, which cut to the actions of his closest advisors.
The other problem we're going to see soon is the difference between laws and norms. Most of what Trump is accused of doing here is a violation of the norms and guidelines that have been setup to avoid improper interaction between law enforcement and political officials. That's all deeply disturbing if you don't want to see the FBI turned into the President's private plaything, but Republicans are going to ask "so what." So what if Trump asked Comey stuff? He's inexperienced and doesn't waste time with bureaucracy and cuts right to the chase. So what if Trump asked for Comey's loyalty? Ain't no rules says the President can't ask for loyalty. So what if Trump asked Comey to let Flynn go? Comey didn't say he would. So what if Trump asked Comey to say publicly what he was willing to say privately? If he can tell Trump in person he's not under investigation, surely he could tell the press.
And while I disagree with those characterizations, we're going to be hearing them an awful lot soon. If there's one thing Trump has shown, it's that violations of longstanding and important governmental norms are not something the GOP cares one bit about as long as Trump is in office.
Now, there's a bunch of stuff not in this document: ongoing investigations into people like Flynn and Kushner and Trump's firing of Comey chief among them. I suspect we'll hear questions about these things and more tomorrow. I expect and am stocked up on popcorn for further bombshells. And I don't discount the cumulative effect of everything piling up over time. But the main response from Republicans to everything from Mexican rapists to Muslim bans to sexual assault bragging has been "so what?," and I don't see that changing.
posted by zachlipton at 12:54 PM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
Can I encourage some wild speculation here as to what "that thing" that Trump said Comey and he had referred to?
I'm dying over that bit. "Hey baby, you and I, we had something really special. So special. Believe me."
Or more like this? Or definitely like this.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm dying over that bit. "Hey baby, you and I, we had something really special. So special. Believe me."
Or more like this? Or definitely like this.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
So I'm going to pick up the kids at daycare and then make dinner. I'm gonna keep an eye on the [] new comments for updates on whether Trump snatched his phone back and is vomiting all over twitter. Don't let me down, metafilter!
posted by lydhre at 12:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 12:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Politicians accused of wrongdoing always, always, always go from "I didn't do it" to "So what if I did" and it should come as no surprise to anyone when Trump and Co. do the same. But let's also not forget that Trump is monumentally talented at kicking the legs out from under his own defense. However savvy people in his administration may be, if Trump's poor impulse control continues to cost the GOP brand to the point where they honestly believe they're looking at an ass-kicking, they will turn on him like a cornered possum. In his own way, he's doing a great job at making the situation not only worse for him, but for those around him, and for the sake of their own survival they might resort to tossing him to the wolves.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:00 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:00 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
[...] Of all of these, the pee tape is the mildest -- Trump, maybe fully clothed, watching women pee on a bed. [...]
I think the tape exists, and that's exactly what it is - some sort of sex show where they pee on the "Obama" bed and maybe on each other. And the fact that Trump repeatedly says he assumes he's being recorded in hotels sort of confirms this for me. He's too addlepated to see any subtlety; Comey told him he wasn't personally being investigated, and Trump repeatedly told everyone that there was no investigation. He told Comey said he wanted "honest loyalty," and didn't get a no = Comey should hope there was no recording because he believes he has evidence of a yes. So I think that he knows exactly what would be on the tape, and since HE's not naked or getting peed on, it means there's nothing there - in his mind, even if it gets released, he's still exonerated.
But the tape would also have sound, and there's no way that what he says and how he reacts to the show wouldn't be equally if not more damning, and I don't think he realizes that - it's just more locker room talk to him.
I don't think we'll ever see it, unless maybe if he turns on Assange. But I think the "I know better" statement is more confirmation of it, rather than less.
posted by Mchelly at 1:01 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think the tape exists, and that's exactly what it is - some sort of sex show where they pee on the "Obama" bed and maybe on each other. And the fact that Trump repeatedly says he assumes he's being recorded in hotels sort of confirms this for me. He's too addlepated to see any subtlety; Comey told him he wasn't personally being investigated, and Trump repeatedly told everyone that there was no investigation. He told Comey said he wanted "honest loyalty," and didn't get a no = Comey should hope there was no recording because he believes he has evidence of a yes. So I think that he knows exactly what would be on the tape, and since HE's not naked or getting peed on, it means there's nothing there - in his mind, even if it gets released, he's still exonerated.
But the tape would also have sound, and there's no way that what he says and how he reacts to the show wouldn't be equally if not more damning, and I don't think he realizes that - it's just more locker room talk to him.
I don't think we'll ever see it, unless maybe if he turns on Assange. But I think the "I know better" statement is more confirmation of it, rather than less.
posted by Mchelly at 1:01 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Skipping down to comment because I have to go to work soon and am like 12 hours beind, but I'm watching the SFIC hearing from earlier and I'm with Jalliah that it is some of the most fascinating television I have ever seen. Part of it is that I know a lot of these people by name from reading these threads and to see them animate the characterizations I've read is just brilliant.
The Senator from West Virginia is a rookie and just kills it in the best greenhorn no-bullshit way.
When Kamala Harris gets a clue about how to respectfully disrespect somebody in Congress (like the rest of these gigantic assholes) she is going to be a force to reckon with.
Tom Cotton is evil and clearly wants to expand the limitations of 702 so that the NSA/CIA can use it on foreigners on US soil. yech.
Mike Rogers is a fascinating human. I could watch him answer questions all day, he is smart, quick, and precise, and utterly desperate for one of these stumbling Senators to ask him the right question. "I'm not going to talk about my conversations with The President. .... The... PRESIDENT. You know, the one guy, THE PRESIDENT I won't talk bout what I said to HIM WHO ELSE IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE RIGHT NOW YOU GUYS HIS NAME IS KUSHNER ASK ME ABOUT EVERYTHING JARED BLURTS OUT IN FRONT OF ME AND FUCK BANNON'S ALWAYS LURKING IN A CORNER AND I WAS EVEN THERE THE NIGHT LEWANDOWSKI CAME BACK GUYS, C'MON," he's saying with his eyes.
posted by carsonb at 1:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
The Senator from West Virginia is a rookie and just kills it in the best greenhorn no-bullshit way.
When Kamala Harris gets a clue about how to respectfully disrespect somebody in Congress (like the rest of these gigantic assholes) she is going to be a force to reckon with.
Tom Cotton is evil and clearly wants to expand the limitations of 702 so that the NSA/CIA can use it on foreigners on US soil. yech.
Mike Rogers is a fascinating human. I could watch him answer questions all day, he is smart, quick, and precise, and utterly desperate for one of these stumbling Senators to ask him the right question. "I'm not going to talk about my conversations with The President. .... The... PRESIDENT. You know, the one guy, THE PRESIDENT I won't talk bout what I said to HIM WHO ELSE IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE RIGHT NOW YOU GUYS HIS NAME IS KUSHNER ASK ME ABOUT EVERYTHING JARED BLURTS OUT IN FRONT OF ME AND FUCK BANNON'S ALWAYS LURKING IN A CORNER AND I WAS EVEN THERE THE NIGHT LEWANDOWSKI CAME BACK GUYS, C'MON," he's saying with his eyes.
posted by carsonb at 1:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
Maybe it's a tape with P-funk.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:04 PM on June 7, 2017
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:04 PM on June 7, 2017
Maybe it's a tape with P-funk.
Just to add: That would make it Clinton's fault.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:06 PM on June 7, 2017 [84 favorites]
Just to add: That would make it Clinton's fault.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:06 PM on June 7, 2017 [84 favorites]
Get out.
posted by erisfree at 1:07 PM on June 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by erisfree at 1:07 PM on June 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
I want to stop for a second and talk about healthcare, because while all this is happening, the Senate is still trying to destroy Obamacare. Axios has The leading Medicaid plan in the Senate, which basically describes the current cop-out plan. They're still destroying Medicaid with a cap, but they want to delay it somewhat 3-7 years. The end result is still the same, Medicaid expansion will be dead, but they want to drag it out slowly so people won't notice. The Senate is also looking to tinker with pre-existing conditions with a plan that would let them technically say they're covered, perhaps with some kind of reinsurance pool, but it's meaningless if they let states opt out of required benefits. It does no good to say that insurance companies have to cover everyone if insurers can also refuse to pay for treatment for various pre-existing conditions. It's arguably worse: you're covered, but have no benefits for what you actually need.
If you're represented by a Republican in the Senate, now would be a great time to make a quick call and let them know that you want to protect Medicaid and will vote accordingly.
Oh, and the White House put out a statement about the attack in Iran that seems to blame Iran. The key line is: "We underscore that states that sponsor terrorism risk falling victim to the evil they promote."
As a sidenote, today is Mike Pence's birthday, complete with optional cheap party hats for the press (the description behind that link is beautiful). I think we can all agree he got a pretty big present!
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on June 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
If you're represented by a Republican in the Senate, now would be a great time to make a quick call and let them know that you want to protect Medicaid and will vote accordingly.
Oh, and the White House put out a statement about the attack in Iran that seems to blame Iran. The key line is: "We underscore that states that sponsor terrorism risk falling victim to the evil they promote."
As a sidenote, today is Mike Pence's birthday, complete with optional cheap party hats for the press (the description behind that link is beautiful). I think we can all agree he got a pretty big present!
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on June 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
Politicians accused of wrongdoing always, always, always go from "I didn't do it" to "So what if I did" and it should come as no surprise to anyone when Trump and Co. do the same [...] In his own way, he's doing a great job at making the situation not only worse for him, but for those around him, and for the sake of their own survival they might resort to tossing him to the wolves.
I want to believe, but... literally everything in your comment applies to Trump's actions and the GOP's response before the election. So many "surely this..." moments, so many tepid condemnations followed a week later by meek yet full throated support. Nobody, including Trump himself, expected him to win the presidency, yet they all stood by him. Now that he's actually president, I don't see why that would ever change. "So what if I did" will continue to be his defense. "So what if he did" will be their rallying cry, to the end. "The end" being when they are voted out of office, and not a moment sooner.
posted by Roommate at 1:13 PM on June 7, 2017
I want to believe, but... literally everything in your comment applies to Trump's actions and the GOP's response before the election. So many "surely this..." moments, so many tepid condemnations followed a week later by meek yet full throated support. Nobody, including Trump himself, expected him to win the presidency, yet they all stood by him. Now that he's actually president, I don't see why that would ever change. "So what if I did" will continue to be his defense. "So what if he did" will be their rallying cry, to the end. "The end" being when they are voted out of office, and not a moment sooner.
posted by Roommate at 1:13 PM on June 7, 2017
Today's testimonies are not encouraging. It occurs to me that all of these people have an interest in the government, in Washington, D.C. not devolving into a shit-show. It seems much more possible to me today than it did yesterday that Comey could soft pedal whatever he says not to protect Trump but to protect Washington.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:13 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:13 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
"I wasn't watching those women pee because I enjoyed it, I was trying to figure out how to stop the leakers."
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 1:15 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 1:15 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane, you have a good point there. But I'm certainly not about to "roll over and expect that nothing will happen" anytime soon, more bracing myself for another disappointment. In fact, the fact that nothing has happened yet is serving only to stoke my outrage. I'm just suggesting a way of looking at the "nothing burger" comments in a way that doesn't induce complete despair, because being disappointed again and again can really wear on a person.
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 1:17 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 1:17 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Now that he's actually president, I don't see why that would ever change.
I think it's because, as others have noted, even Fox is turning against him, but more importantly:
When he was running, GOP support was predicated on this delusion that once in power, they'd be able to tame him, train him, or keep him away from the grown-up table. That has proven impossible, and we're already seeing that GOP leaders are either choosing silence or embarrassed mumbling in response to his irrational behavior. It's one thing to do whatever you can to take the White House; it's quite another to start losing control of your brand and your base once you get there.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:18 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think it's because, as others have noted, even Fox is turning against him, but more importantly:
When he was running, GOP support was predicated on this delusion that once in power, they'd be able to tame him, train him, or keep him away from the grown-up table. That has proven impossible, and we're already seeing that GOP leaders are either choosing silence or embarrassed mumbling in response to his irrational behavior. It's one thing to do whatever you can to take the White House; it's quite another to start losing control of your brand and your base once you get there.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:18 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Maybe it's a tape with P-funk.
Just to add: That would make it Clinton's fault.
Would that make it Bernie's fault too?
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:21 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Just to add: That would make it Clinton's fault.
Would that make it Bernie's fault too?
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:21 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Gag twitter accounts are cheaper than gag MeFi sockpuppets
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:22 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:22 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
TPM's Josh Marshall: My Annotated Notes on the Comey Statement: Trump’s invitation for Comey to come to dinner at the White House came the day of the dinner was the same day Sally Yates made her second visit in two days to the White House giving White House Counsel Donald McGahn a “heads up” about Mike Flynn. Published reports say that McGahn briefed Trump about these visits and their contents immediately. It seems quite likely the Yates “heads up” was the trigger for the invitation.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:22 PM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:22 PM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
somebody posted a (Wondermark?) comic earlier that made the point about how our current political situation is like a prestige cable drama and I have to say, this hard shift from Qatar vs the Fellowship of the Orb to Comey in the Green Room is like when you spend forty minutes in Meereen and then boom suddenly it's Bran north of the Wall
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:23 PM on June 7, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:23 PM on June 7, 2017 [43 favorites]
Gag twitter accounts are cheaper than gag MeFi sockpuppets
I'll show myself out then.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 1:28 PM on June 7, 2017 [96 favorites]
I'll show myself out then.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 1:28 PM on June 7, 2017 [96 favorites]
here come the talking points:
Chris Christie tells @NicolleDWallace Trump's comments to Comey were "normal New York City conversation" he didn't realize was inappropriate -- Eli Stokols, WSJposted by murphy slaw at 1:30 PM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
man, who summoned me. i was taking a nap in the bushes
posted by possibly sean spicer at 1:31 PM on June 7, 2017 [89 favorites]
posted by possibly sean spicer at 1:31 PM on June 7, 2017 [89 favorites]
So bragging about sexual assault is "locker room talk" and asking the FBI Director to shut down an investigation is "normal New York City conversation." What's next? How come they didn't say that "covfefe" was "normal Presidential tweeting?"
posted by zachlipton at 1:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
Skipping down to comment because I have to go to work soon and am like 12 hours beind,
We are all tehhund now.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
We are all tehhund now.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
"for the purposes of this conversation, we shall stipulate that john gotti is our normal new yorker" [fake]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
"normal New York City conversation" he didn't realize was inappropriate
Legally speaking, does it matter if he didn't realize it was inappropriate?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:35 PM on June 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
Legally speaking, does it matter if he didn't realize it was inappropriate?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:35 PM on June 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
Reek, he's not going to make you FBI Director. Stop trying to make Locker Room Talk happen (again).
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:35 PM on June 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:35 PM on June 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
I threw the text of Comey's testimony into a g'doc. Title links to a PDF of the collected scans.
Choice bits:
I felt compelled to document my first conversation with the President-Elect in a memo. To ensure accuracy, I began to type it on a laptop in an FBI vehicle outside Trump Tower the moment I walked out of the meeting. Creating written records immediately after one-on-one conversations with Mr. Trump was my practice from that point forward. This had not been my practice in the past.
I added that I was not "reliable" in the way politicians use that word, but he could always count on me to tell him the truth. …
A few moments later, the President said, "I need loyalty, I expect loyalty." I didn't move, speak, or change my facial expression in any way during the awkward silence that followed.
He repeated that Flynn hadn't done anything wrong on his calls with the Russians, but had misled the Vice President. He then said, "I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go." I replied only that "he is a good guy."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:36 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Choice bits:
I felt compelled to document my first conversation with the President-Elect in a memo. To ensure accuracy, I began to type it on a laptop in an FBI vehicle outside Trump Tower the moment I walked out of the meeting. Creating written records immediately after one-on-one conversations with Mr. Trump was my practice from that point forward. This had not been my practice in the past.
I added that I was not "reliable" in the way politicians use that word, but he could always count on me to tell him the truth. …
A few moments later, the President said, "I need loyalty, I expect loyalty." I didn't move, speak, or change my facial expression in any way during the awkward silence that followed.
He repeated that Flynn hadn't done anything wrong on his calls with the Russians, but had misled the Vice President. He then said, "I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go." I replied only that "he is a good guy."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:36 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
here come the talking points:
Chris Christie tells @NicolleDWallace Trump's comments to Comey were "normal New York City conversation" he didn't realize was inappropriate -- Eli Stokols, WSJ
The appropriate responses being 1) this is why nobody in NYC can stand him, and 2) NY AG Schneiderman's take on that particular excuse.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:36 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Chris Christie tells @NicolleDWallace Trump's comments to Comey were "normal New York City conversation" he didn't realize was inappropriate -- Eli Stokols, WSJ
The appropriate responses being 1) this is why nobody in NYC can stand him, and 2) NY AG Schneiderman's take on that particular excuse.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:36 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Gizmodo: Monica Crowley (who was going to be Deputy National Security Advisor until a plagiarism scandal) worked as an unregistered foreign agent for pro-Russian Ukrainian Victor Pinchuk
it's probably nothing
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:37 PM on June 7, 2017 [63 favorites]
it's probably nothing
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:37 PM on June 7, 2017 [63 favorites]
3) why the fuck is this palooka from jersey telling us how we fuckin' talk
posted by murphy slaw at 1:38 PM on June 7, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:38 PM on June 7, 2017 [36 favorites]
meinvt: Comey is so good at dangling hooks out there.
In Hollywood they say that "Everybody wants to direct."
posted by wenestvedt at 1:38 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
In Hollywood they say that "Everybody wants to direct."
posted by wenestvedt at 1:38 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, he's saying that he assumed the normal level of political corruption and gangsterism in NYC dealings were nothing to worry about in general, so why would they be in the presidency? You can unpack that in various ways: none is good.
posted by Devonian at 1:39 PM on June 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 1:39 PM on June 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
Chris Christie tells @NicolleDWallace Trump's comments to Comey were "normal New York City conversation" he didn't realize was inappropriate -- Eli Stokols, WSJ
Yeah, normal New York City conversation out of The Godfather. “I need loyalty, I expect loyalty.”? “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.”? “Because I have been very loyal to you, very loyal; we had that thing you know.”? Trump stopped just short of talking about goodfellas and this thing of ours.
Then again, with all of Trump's reported mob ties, maybe this really is ordinary NYC chit-chat for him.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:39 PM on June 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
Yeah, normal New York City conversation out of The Godfather. “I need loyalty, I expect loyalty.”? “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.”? “Because I have been very loyal to you, very loyal; we had that thing you know.”? Trump stopped just short of talking about goodfellas and this thing of ours.
Then again, with all of Trump's reported mob ties, maybe this really is ordinary NYC chit-chat for him.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:39 PM on June 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
3) why the fuck is this palooka from jersey telling us how we fuckin' talk
Strewth. That drongo is hot under the collar fair dinkum. He's spewin about the sook that ranga Trump is having.
posted by Talez at 1:42 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Strewth. That drongo is hot under the collar fair dinkum. He's spewin about the sook that ranga Trump is having.
posted by Talez at 1:42 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
the other thing that is easy to overlook is that christie is ceding the point that the things trump said were inappropriate - trump just didn't know they weren't
posted by murphy slaw at 1:42 PM on June 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 1:42 PM on June 7, 2017 [41 favorites]
Strewth. That drongo is hot under the collar fair dinkum. He's spewin about the sook that ranga Trump is having.
NJ Governor Chris Claremont.
posted by Artw at 1:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
NJ Governor Chris Claremont.
posted by Artw at 1:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
"The President was unaware that leaning hard on 'loyalty' while pointedly asking for the investigation to steer clear of him and then subsequently firing the person in charge of the investigation could possibly be inappropriate" seems like a pretty hard sell to me.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [49 favorites]
A few moments later, the President said, "I need loyalty, I expect loyalty." I didn't move, speak, or change my facial expression in any way during the awkward silence that followed.
this is such a fine art and such a magnificent boast. most people can't do it, not because they don't have the talent, but because they don't have the will. you can practice this even if you're not a fed. like when your awful neighbor says Say, I heard you were having a party this Friday! boy I love parties," instead of saying "oh would you like to come?" even though you don't want them to come, just gaze back at them not moving, speaking, or engaging any face muscles. just try. I already know I can't do it.
I mean they should like include this in self-assertion skills training for women who say "yes" too much. part of it can be the visualization technique where, before you agree to the thing you don't want to do, because you are a people-pleaser, you visualize yourself as a six-foot-eight preying mantis with a smirk. then, remove the smirk. remove all expression. then, relax all your muscles and feel the coldness flowing into all quadrants of your body. then, step into the quiet of the stream.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:46 PM on June 7, 2017 [178 favorites]
this is such a fine art and such a magnificent boast. most people can't do it, not because they don't have the talent, but because they don't have the will. you can practice this even if you're not a fed. like when your awful neighbor says Say, I heard you were having a party this Friday! boy I love parties," instead of saying "oh would you like to come?" even though you don't want them to come, just gaze back at them not moving, speaking, or engaging any face muscles. just try. I already know I can't do it.
I mean they should like include this in self-assertion skills training for women who say "yes" too much. part of it can be the visualization technique where, before you agree to the thing you don't want to do, because you are a people-pleaser, you visualize yourself as a six-foot-eight preying mantis with a smirk. then, remove the smirk. remove all expression. then, relax all your muscles and feel the coldness flowing into all quadrants of your body. then, step into the quiet of the stream.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:46 PM on June 7, 2017 [178 favorites]
Christie: "The president is a moron who doesn't know what words mean."
The media: "Well, that's true."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:46 PM on June 7, 2017 [66 favorites]
The media: "Well, that's true."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:46 PM on June 7, 2017 [66 favorites]
this is such a fine art and such a magnificent boast. most people can't do it, not because they don't have the talent, but because they don't have the will. you can practice this even if you're not a fed. like when your awful neighbor says Say, I heard you were having a party this Friday! boy I love parties," instead of saying "oh would you like to come?" even though you don't want them to come, just gaze back at them not moving, speaking, or engaging any face muscles. just try. I already know I can't do it.
Oh, I saw this in an episode of The Americans. You stare at the tip of their nose. It gives the impression you're looking them unflinchingly right in the eyes, but you never make eye contact.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:48 PM on June 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
Oh, I saw this in an episode of The Americans. You stare at the tip of their nose. It gives the impression you're looking them unflinchingly right in the eyes, but you never make eye contact.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:48 PM on June 7, 2017 [30 favorites]
ay, we gonna give this guy da normal new york city conversation and if he say yes he ain't gonna get da normal new york city swimming lesson capiche?
badda-boom badda-bing baby
ay mamma gimme some more covfefe in my cannoli
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:53 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
badda-boom badda-bing baby
ay mamma gimme some more covfefe in my cannoli
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:53 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
it also reminds me of the legend about Greta Garbo, was it? whatever actress who had such a heartbreaking play of emotions across her beautiful face in whatever iconic scene as she sailed away from her true love forever, and somebody asked her later how she did it or what she was thinking about and she said oh, i just relaxed all my face parts and thought about what I would have for breakfast tomorrow, would it be pancakes or not pancakes. or however the story goes. because the blanker your face, the more can be read into it by anybody watching. such as a president.
guess I am saying Greta Garbo should play Comey in the movie. though I must remember he is actually a terrible man.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:53 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
guess I am saying Greta Garbo should play Comey in the movie. though I must remember he is actually a terrible man.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:53 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
From these quotes... he was never threatened, never directly asked to drop the investigation. I don't think it's going to float.
Dammit Comey.
posted by adept256 at 1:53 PM on June 7, 2017
Dammit Comey.
posted by adept256 at 1:53 PM on June 7, 2017
"The President was unaware that leaning hard on 'loyalty' while pointedly asking for the investigation to steer clear of him and then subsequently firing the person in charge of the investigation could possibly be inappropriate" seems like a pretty hard sell to me.
Nah, it's all part of that "run the country like a business" thing. It's not inappropriate to talk to the head of another company and say, "hey, that merger you're considering... could you maybe drop it? It'd be such a hassle for my guys to deal with. Tell you what - drop the merger thing, and we'll stay out of your region so you can advertise heavy there and take over."
It's also not inappropriate for a CEO to go to the head of a subsidiary company and say, "I know you've been looking into replacing the head of marketing and changing the advertisements... don't bother; he's fine where he is, and the ad system is good for now."
He's just really, really oblivious to the concept that there are laws that control how the government works, that it's not all just "whatever we mutually agree to do is okay."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:55 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nah, it's all part of that "run the country like a business" thing. It's not inappropriate to talk to the head of another company and say, "hey, that merger you're considering... could you maybe drop it? It'd be such a hassle for my guys to deal with. Tell you what - drop the merger thing, and we'll stay out of your region so you can advertise heavy there and take over."
It's also not inappropriate for a CEO to go to the head of a subsidiary company and say, "I know you've been looking into replacing the head of marketing and changing the advertisements... don't bother; he's fine where he is, and the ad system is good for now."
He's just really, really oblivious to the concept that there are laws that control how the government works, that it's not all just "whatever we mutually agree to do is okay."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:55 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
From these quotes... he was never threatened, never directly asked to drop the investigation. I don't think it's going to float.
It's. an. opening. statement. in. which. he. clearly. tells. you. his. understanding.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:56 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's. an. opening. statement. in. which. he. clearly. tells. you. his. understanding.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:56 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
> he was never threatened, never directly asked to drop the investigation.
You remember that he was fired after that, right?
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:56 PM on June 7, 2017 [70 favorites]
You remember that he was fired after that, right?
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:56 PM on June 7, 2017 [70 favorites]
Guise, hey guise I know we're all wanting an updated Nixon but the deal with that, okay, is that Nixon had a shred of human emotions he was beholden to. For reasons, Trump does not.
This article is unfortunately more relevant to the coming days than Comey's testimony and we'd all do well to incoporate its . . . lessons? What My Father The Pathological Liar Taught Me About Trump
If you are operating from the premise that if you catch Trump red-handed in some lie he will have to confess and apologize, you will be disappointed every time. When Trump's explanation for firing FBI director James Comey contradicted that of his spokespeople, the deceit could not have been more obvious. Reporters dutifully pointed this out, no doubt expecting the kind of contrition or clarification displayed by previous presidents. None came. . . .
When you grow up the way I did, the hardest thing to accept is that no one has to come to your rescue, and in all likelihood, no one is. Any plan for "escape" will have to come from you, and will require a great deal of time to execute. It involves not merely removing yourself from a physical location, but also changing an outlook that seeks constant retribution for what was "done" to you. It sucks and it's exhausting and, from a mental standpoint, the process never quite ends. It's very easy to get bogged down by the unfairness of fixing yourself when someone else is the real problem. . . .
So it is with the Trump presidency. No one is coming to save us from it. Not Barack Obama, not Hillary Clinton, not MSNBC, not Louise Mensch, and definitely not the Republican Party. As president, Donald Trump has firm control of the household of America, and there is absolutely no reason to believe he will relinquish that control for any reason other than the usual political ones.
posted by petebest at 1:57 PM on June 7, 2017 [47 favorites]
This article is unfortunately more relevant to the coming days than Comey's testimony and we'd all do well to incoporate its . . . lessons? What My Father The Pathological Liar Taught Me About Trump
If you are operating from the premise that if you catch Trump red-handed in some lie he will have to confess and apologize, you will be disappointed every time. When Trump's explanation for firing FBI director James Comey contradicted that of his spokespeople, the deceit could not have been more obvious. Reporters dutifully pointed this out, no doubt expecting the kind of contrition or clarification displayed by previous presidents. None came. . . .
When you grow up the way I did, the hardest thing to accept is that no one has to come to your rescue, and in all likelihood, no one is. Any plan for "escape" will have to come from you, and will require a great deal of time to execute. It involves not merely removing yourself from a physical location, but also changing an outlook that seeks constant retribution for what was "done" to you. It sucks and it's exhausting and, from a mental standpoint, the process never quite ends. It's very easy to get bogged down by the unfairness of fixing yourself when someone else is the real problem. . . .
So it is with the Trump presidency. No one is coming to save us from it. Not Barack Obama, not Hillary Clinton, not MSNBC, not Louise Mensch, and definitely not the Republican Party. As president, Donald Trump has firm control of the household of America, and there is absolutely no reason to believe he will relinquish that control for any reason other than the usual political ones.
posted by petebest at 1:57 PM on June 7, 2017 [47 favorites]
From these quotes... he was never threatened, never directly asked to drop the investigation
posted by zakur at 1:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
"I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go," Comey says Trump told him. "He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go."Sounds like a direct ask to me.
posted by zakur at 1:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
He's just really, really oblivious to the concept that there are laws that control how the government works, that it's not all just "whatever we mutually agree to do is okay."
Oh, I don't doubt he's oblivious to the difference between CEO and President. But my question remains, and I hope actual lawyer-type folks can help me out here: does it matter, from a legal standpoint, if the President is unaware he committed wrongdoing?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, I don't doubt he's oblivious to the difference between CEO and President. But my question remains, and I hope actual lawyer-type folks can help me out here: does it matter, from a legal standpoint, if the President is unaware he committed wrongdoing?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
ay, we gonna give this guy da normal new york city conversation and if he say yes he ain't gonna get da normal new york city swimming lesson capiche?
badda-boom badda-bing baby
ay mamma gimme some more covfefe in my cannoli
What kind of mishegas you shmucks are talking about I have no idea. Oy, what I wouldn't give for some real New York conversation right about now. Just give me a knish and a two cents plain.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
badda-boom badda-bing baby
ay mamma gimme some more covfefe in my cannoli
What kind of mishegas you shmucks are talking about I have no idea. Oy, what I wouldn't give for some real New York conversation right about now. Just give me a knish and a two cents plain.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
>he was never threatened, never directly asked to drop the investigation. I don't think it's going to float.
I think some of us were (and maybe still are) expecting Comey to recount some sort of Trump-as-Super-Villain monologue wherein Trump admits he poisoned the water supply and ate a litter of puppies for breakfast before meeting with the Russians to hand over the US nuclear launch codes. Comey's initial statement doesn't seem to rise to that level of explicit incrimination, but I think there is plenty there to chew on. And it's just the opening statement - here's hoping there is much more to come tomorrow.
posted by mosk at 2:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think some of us were (and maybe still are) expecting Comey to recount some sort of Trump-as-Super-Villain monologue wherein Trump admits he poisoned the water supply and ate a litter of puppies for breakfast before meeting with the Russians to hand over the US nuclear launch codes. Comey's initial statement doesn't seem to rise to that level of explicit incrimination, but I think there is plenty there to chew on. And it's just the opening statement - here's hoping there is much more to come tomorrow.
posted by mosk at 2:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
So Reek's pal is nominated the New Comey and he's all back in the shit?
Chris Christie tells @NicolleDWallace Trump's comments to Comey were "normal New York City conversation" he didn't realize was inappropriate -- Eli Stokols, WSJ
Nah, fowk YOUh
posted by petebest at 2:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Chris Christie tells @NicolleDWallace Trump's comments to Comey were "normal New York City conversation" he didn't realize was inappropriate -- Eli Stokols, WSJ
Nah, fowk YOUh
posted by petebest at 2:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
When Kamala Harris gets a clue about how to respectfully disrespect somebody in Congress (like the rest of these gigantic assholes) she is going to be a force to reckon with.
Just want to add that I recognize this is totally unasked-for tone-policing and that I appreciate and respect the job my Senator is doing in Congress.
posted by carsonb at 2:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
Just want to add that I recognize this is totally unasked-for tone-policing and that I appreciate and respect the job my Senator is doing in Congress.
posted by carsonb at 2:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
does it matter, from a legal standpoint, if the President is unaware he committed wrongdoing?
Intent and acting "knowingly" are elements of criminal obstruction of justice, yes (though these are legal terms of art that can't be reduced to their plain meanings). Note, however, that impeachment is a political process, not a legal one.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:04 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Intent and acting "knowingly" are elements of criminal obstruction of justice, yes (though these are legal terms of art that can't be reduced to their plain meanings). Note, however, that impeachment is a political process, not a legal one.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:04 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
odinsdream: "Everyone knows it's not obstruction of justice unless you say "Justice, I obstruct thee!" three times in a row."
I...declare...baaankruptcyyyy!
posted by Chrysostom at 2:05 PM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
I...declare...baaankruptcyyyy!
posted by Chrysostom at 2:05 PM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
Sounds like a direct ask to me.
Exactly. He was asking the FBI Director to drop an investigation - it doesn't matter that it wasn't about him (even though we all know it was, though indirectly). That's a textbook definition of obstruction, with 'loyalty' sprinkles on top. I still don't think that this will lead to impeachment, but as to the question of whether or not the sitting president obstructed an FBI investigation, the case is pretty clear.
posted by eclectist at 2:05 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Exactly. He was asking the FBI Director to drop an investigation - it doesn't matter that it wasn't about him (even though we all know it was, though indirectly). That's a textbook definition of obstruction, with 'loyalty' sprinkles on top. I still don't think that this will lead to impeachment, but as to the question of whether or not the sitting president obstructed an FBI investigation, the case is pretty clear.
posted by eclectist at 2:05 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
What kind of mishegas you shmucks are talking about I have no idea.
Ah cmon, whasamattafayou?
Chris Christie tells @NicolleDWallace Trump's comments to Comey were "normal New York City conversation"
Go fuck yourself you Jersey schmuck
posted by schadenfrau at 2:06 PM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
Ah cmon, whasamattafayou?
Chris Christie tells @NicolleDWallace Trump's comments to Comey were "normal New York City conversation"
Go fuck yourself you Jersey schmuck
posted by schadenfrau at 2:06 PM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
Now that's New York City conversation!
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:07 PM on June 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:07 PM on June 7, 2017 [24 favorites]
For me personally, it's kind of comforting (in an odd way) to see people re-iterating that no, the mere presence of damning behavior or evidence does not automatically result in some kind of real action against Trump. Emphasizing this helps bridge a gap between expectation and reality.
In many a movie the villain tells the hero "All right, you know what, I did do the evil thing, but who'se going to believe you?" (coupled with a threat to kill the hero, if it's not a kid's movie). But the tables turn when it turns out that, guess what, the hero recorded this very confession! Ha ha! Justice prevails!
But in real life, villains have followers, numerous followers, who see them as heroes, and aren't even necessarily all that deluded about them. Real-life villains' public image is often in full accord with their private crimes. Real-life cops might fight to prevent their actions from being recorded... but juries can still exonerate them (e.g the jury that couldn't determine the guilt of Michael Slager, who was filmed not just killing Walter Scott but planting the taser on his body so he could later claim self-defense). Because, you know, gotta support cops. Their lives are tough. Something something political correctness.
So that's obviously depressing, but it's better than the Twilight Zone self-doubt/nausea of "If no one's doing anything, why does this look and feel so wrong to me?" (Not to mention one must steer clear of the way I'd guess many Americans perceive it, which is "Well it looks bad, but obviously it can't be too bad or else people would be behind bars.")
posted by InTheYear2017 at 2:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
In many a movie the villain tells the hero "All right, you know what, I did do the evil thing, but who'se going to believe you?" (coupled with a threat to kill the hero, if it's not a kid's movie). But the tables turn when it turns out that, guess what, the hero recorded this very confession! Ha ha! Justice prevails!
But in real life, villains have followers, numerous followers, who see them as heroes, and aren't even necessarily all that deluded about them. Real-life villains' public image is often in full accord with their private crimes. Real-life cops might fight to prevent their actions from being recorded... but juries can still exonerate them (e.g the jury that couldn't determine the guilt of Michael Slager, who was filmed not just killing Walter Scott but planting the taser on his body so he could later claim self-defense). Because, you know, gotta support cops. Their lives are tough. Something something political correctness.
So that's obviously depressing, but it's better than the Twilight Zone self-doubt/nausea of "If no one's doing anything, why does this look and feel so wrong to me?" (Not to mention one must steer clear of the way I'd guess many Americans perceive it, which is "Well it looks bad, but obviously it can't be too bad or else people would be behind bars.")
posted by InTheYear2017 at 2:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
It seems relevant that James Comey spent quite a bit of time working (and running) the US Attorney's office in New York and helped prosecute New York mobsters, so I suspect he has a better idea of what normal and abnormal "normal New York City conversation" sounds like than the Governor of New Jersey.
Meanwhile, Billy "On the Street" Eichner wants us to know what "a real New York conversation" looks like.
posted by zachlipton at 2:09 PM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Meanwhile, Billy "On the Street" Eichner wants us to know what "a real New York conversation" looks like.
posted by zachlipton at 2:09 PM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
If Russia has it and is leaking information to that effect, it may be so that if necessary, then can release the tape as a distraction from the other 3. And Trump's defenders will say "OK, that's awkward, but it's out now so they can't use it against him. Let's just move forward."
Or, "That's just a normal alpha-male dominance display. That's what winners do. Not that you beta-cuck losers would know! Sad!"
posted by acb at 2:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Or, "That's just a normal alpha-male dominance display. That's what winners do. Not that you beta-cuck losers would know! Sad!"
posted by acb at 2:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
♫ The Comey Statement . . . have you read this? ♫
♫ HIGHLIGHTS! ♫
I took the opportunity to implore the Attorney General to prevent any future direct communication between the President and me. I told the AG that what had just happened – him being asked to leave while the FBI Director, who reports to the AG, remained behind – was inappropriate and should never happen. ***He did not reply.*** (emphasis added)
Man, this is not good for Sessions. Nor is the part where Comey told several other FBI higher ups and specifically NOT Sessions about Trump trying to interfere "because we assumed he would soon be recusing himself." Yeah, basically the whole FBI knows you're both Trump's little pal and ass-deep in Russians.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:14 PM on June 7, 2017 [52 favorites]
♫ HIGHLIGHTS! ♫
I took the opportunity to implore the Attorney General to prevent any future direct communication between the President and me. I told the AG that what had just happened – him being asked to leave while the FBI Director, who reports to the AG, remained behind – was inappropriate and should never happen. ***He did not reply.*** (emphasis added)
Man, this is not good for Sessions. Nor is the part where Comey told several other FBI higher ups and specifically NOT Sessions about Trump trying to interfere "because we assumed he would soon be recusing himself." Yeah, basically the whole FBI knows you're both Trump's little pal and ass-deep in Russians.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:14 PM on June 7, 2017 [52 favorites]
What is it with Trump supporters thinking "he doesn't know how to speak/behave/insert verb" is an admissible excuse for a President's general behavior?
And more importantly, how do they manage to reconcile "moron who can't speak" with "genius business person who can fix everything"?
posted by Tarumba at 2:16 PM on June 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
And more importantly, how do they manage to reconcile "moron who can't speak" with "genius business person who can fix everything"?
posted by Tarumba at 2:16 PM on June 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
Exactly. He was asking the FBI Director to drop an investigation - it doesn't matter that it wasn't about him
An investigation with a pretty decent likelihood eventually being about him.
posted by chris24 at 2:16 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
An investigation with a pretty decent likelihood eventually being about him.
posted by chris24 at 2:16 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wait. Guys.
What if the grandfather clock is where the orb hides when the unfaithful are present?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:19 PM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
What if the grandfather clock is where the orb hides when the unfaithful are present?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:19 PM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
What is it with Trump supporters thinking "he doesn't know how to speak/behave/insert verb" is an admissible excuse for a president's general behavior?
"He's just an ordinary guy, not like you hifalutin' college-geek elitists. I trust him, because I've been in spots like that. Knowing the right words isn't important. Acting from the right gut feelings is what's important!"
And more importantly, how do they manage to reconcile "moron who can't speak" with "genius business person who can fix everything"?
"Look at his record - he makes mistakes, and he still makes millions of dollars! He has a gorgeous supermodel wife, and lives in a gold palace! He must be doing something right! So if he wants to run the country, he'll make sure we all live in gold palaces and get supermodel wives!"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:20 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
"He's just an ordinary guy, not like you hifalutin' college-geek elitists. I trust him, because I've been in spots like that. Knowing the right words isn't important. Acting from the right gut feelings is what's important!"
And more importantly, how do they manage to reconcile "moron who can't speak" with "genius business person who can fix everything"?
"Look at his record - he makes mistakes, and he still makes millions of dollars! He has a gorgeous supermodel wife, and lives in a gold palace! He must be doing something right! So if he wants to run the country, he'll make sure we all live in gold palaces and get supermodel wives!"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:20 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
So when Trump said "when you're a celebrity, they let you do it," that absolves him of responsibility for committing sexual assaults? Fuck that noise.
His arrogant assumption that he's above the law and can get away with crimes and do any goddamn thing he wants is not a defense or mitigating factor. This is not normal and not acceptable.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:21 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
His arrogant assumption that he's above the law and can get away with crimes and do any goddamn thing he wants is not a defense or mitigating factor. This is not normal and not acceptable.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:21 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
> In the last election, more people voted for Democrats for the House, Senate, and Presidency I believe... But Republicans control all three.
It has happened in the past the Republicans lost the popular vote but won a majority in the House & Senate, but not in 2016.
Here is how House, Senate, and Presidency turned on in popular vote vs. seats:
HOUSE
Popular vote: 49.1% R, 48.0% D
Seats: 51.2% R, 45.5% D
SENATE
Popular vote: 42.4% R, 53.8% D
Seats: 53% R, 47% D
PRESIDENT
Popular vote: 46.1% R, 48.2% D
Seats: 100% R, 0% D
So the Republicans are obviously getting a boost in each case--about +4.5% in the House, +7% in the Senate, and winning the President when they were down over 2% in popular vote.
But the Democrats didn't quite pull out a majority of votes in the House races, and I think it is pretty interesting that they didn't--especially when they were able to pull out a pretty HUGE margin of popular vote victory in the Senate, and a decent margin in the Presidential race.
I'm not sure what the reason for that is, or the differences.
Source: Wikipedia articles on 2016 elections. Note that the Senate totals ignore the 2 independent seats.
posted by flug at 2:22 PM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
It has happened in the past the Republicans lost the popular vote but won a majority in the House & Senate, but not in 2016.
Here is how House, Senate, and Presidency turned on in popular vote vs. seats:
HOUSE
Popular vote: 49.1% R, 48.0% D
Seats: 51.2% R, 45.5% D
SENATE
Popular vote: 42.4% R, 53.8% D
Seats: 53% R, 47% D
PRESIDENT
Popular vote: 46.1% R, 48.2% D
Seats: 100% R, 0% D
So the Republicans are obviously getting a boost in each case--about +4.5% in the House, +7% in the Senate, and winning the President when they were down over 2% in popular vote.
But the Democrats didn't quite pull out a majority of votes in the House races, and I think it is pretty interesting that they didn't--especially when they were able to pull out a pretty HUGE margin of popular vote victory in the Senate, and a decent margin in the Presidential race.
I'm not sure what the reason for that is, or the differences.
Source: Wikipedia articles on 2016 elections. Note that the Senate totals ignore the 2 independent seats.
posted by flug at 2:22 PM on June 7, 2017 [16 favorites]
When Kamala Harris gets a clue about how to respectfully disrespect somebody in Congress (like the rest of these gigantic assholes) she is going to be a force to reckon with.
She already has far more than a clue. She is already a force to reckon with.
That is why Burr interrupted.
The problem you seek is not in Kamala Harris. Look elsewhere. Perhaps look within.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:23 PM on June 7, 2017 [53 favorites]
She already has far more than a clue. She is already a force to reckon with.
That is why Burr interrupted.
The problem you seek is not in Kamala Harris. Look elsewhere. Perhaps look within.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:23 PM on June 7, 2017 [53 favorites]
His arrogant assumption that he's above the law and can get away with crimes and do any goddamn thing he wants is not a defense or mitigating factor. This is not normal and not acceptable.
Depending on the GOP congress, it might be.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:27 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Depending on the GOP congress, it might be.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:27 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
ass-deep in Russians
I reluctantly relinquish dibs on this sockpuppet name.
posted by petebest at 2:27 PM on June 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
I reluctantly relinquish dibs on this sockpuppet name.
posted by petebest at 2:27 PM on June 7, 2017 [35 favorites]
> I do wish my kids had graduated last year and received a certificate signed by President Barack Obama
mrzarquon pointed out this interesting bit for people who, like me, work towards the President's Volunteer Service Award: "Effective June 1st, and until further notice, certificate packages will not include Presidential letters."
I don't know why they say that the current annual awards don't get presidential signatures -- I've gotten a few Golds and they all had letters signed by President Obama (including the one I got this year). I suppose they could be making a distinction between actual real signatures and printed ones? Or they could just be throwing their hands up in despair.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
mrzarquon pointed out this interesting bit for people who, like me, work towards the President's Volunteer Service Award: "Effective June 1st, and until further notice, certificate packages will not include Presidential letters."
I don't know why they say that the current annual awards don't get presidential signatures -- I've gotten a few Golds and they all had letters signed by President Obama (including the one I got this year). I suppose they could be making a distinction between actual real signatures and printed ones? Or they could just be throwing their hands up in despair.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
So Chuck Todd [yeah, I know] was just discussing this thing where some Trump-loving PAC is funding these vicious national anti-Comey smear ads over the next few days and noted that this is a really scary precedent equivalent to "a horse's head in the bed" where an unelected former official who's now a private citizen is attacked as an example to everybody else with information that "if you mess with our guy, we'll destroy you." Pretty chilling.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
> His arrogant assumption that he's above the law and can get away with crimes and do any goddamn thing he wants is not a defense or mitigating factor. This is not normal and not acceptable.
Depending on the GOP congress, it might be.
I mean, if I were Trump I would assume that I'm above the law and can get away with crimes and do any goddamn thing I want, too, because I'd have my entire adult life to back me up.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:37 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Depending on the GOP congress, it might be.
I mean, if I were Trump I would assume that I'm above the law and can get away with crimes and do any goddamn thing I want, too, because I'd have my entire adult life to back me up.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:37 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
But the Democrats didn't quite pull out a majority of votes in the House races, and I think it is pretty interesting that they didn't
Thanks for the correct numbers and apologies for my mistake.
I do notice that according to that Republicans ALSO did not pull out a majority of the popular vote in the House, though.
Other comments:
I would like to point out that we already know what salacious material Comey shared with the president at that first meeting. It was the infamous dossier itself.
Before the election, Mother Jones reported the existence of the dossier and hinted at its contents. Then in January, CNN reported that both President Obama and President-Elect Trump had been briefed on this dossier. The next day, as I recall, Buzzfeed said "Oh fuck it" and published the dossier.
We're now hearing Comey's account of that briefing CNN reported on, which eventually led to Buzzfeed publishing.
And finally:
I found out what Nick Weaver was talking about on that radio show I mentioned above. Turns out it's in the declassified intelligence report, and I just never picked up on it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:39 PM on June 7, 2017 [47 favorites]
Thanks for the correct numbers and apologies for my mistake.
I do notice that according to that Republicans ALSO did not pull out a majority of the popular vote in the House, though.
Other comments:
I would like to point out that we already know what salacious material Comey shared with the president at that first meeting. It was the infamous dossier itself.
Before the election, Mother Jones reported the existence of the dossier and hinted at its contents. Then in January, CNN reported that both President Obama and President-Elect Trump had been briefed on this dossier. The next day, as I recall, Buzzfeed said "Oh fuck it" and published the dossier.
We're now hearing Comey's account of that briefing CNN reported on, which eventually led to Buzzfeed publishing.
And finally:
I found out what Nick Weaver was talking about on that radio show I mentioned above. Turns out it's in the declassified intelligence report, and I just never picked up on it.
Before the election, Russian diplomats had publicly denounced the US electoral process and were prepared to publicly call into question the validity of the results. ProKremlin bloggers had prepared a Twitter campaign, #DemocracyRIP, on election night in anticipation of Secretary Clinton’s victory, judging from their social media activity.This makes Weaver's speculation that the reason the Russians were hacking voter databases the day before the election was to support that "rigged election" narrative in some way seem very plausible to me. I've already updated the "what was Russia trying to accomplish" section on my site.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:39 PM on June 7, 2017 [47 favorites]
"He's just an ordinary guy, not like you hifalutin' college-geek elitists. I trust him, because I've been in spots like that. Knowing the right words isn't important. Acting from the right gut feelings is what's important!"
@SethAbramson has a quick primer on obstruction of justice and why words are precisely what is at issue.
Impeachment is still a political matter, though, so optics with regards to both the "justice quotient" of the law and how it was broken are very, very important.
posted by infinitewindow at 2:39 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
@SethAbramson has a quick primer on obstruction of justice and why words are precisely what is at issue.
Impeachment is still a political matter, though, so optics with regards to both the "justice quotient" of the law and how it was broken are very, very important.
posted by infinitewindow at 2:39 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
He's just really, really oblivious to the concept that there are laws that control how the government works, that it's not all just "whatever we mutually agree to do is okay."
Dude is 70, he got elected president, and he has been involved in more legal disputes than any of us can count. There is no credible grounds on which he can play dumb here. And ignorance of the law is not a defense regardless.
Republicans, of course, will go for it, because they don't give a fuck about credibility. But let's not talk about this like we have to play along with their disingenuous bullshit.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:39 PM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Dude is 70, he got elected president, and he has been involved in more legal disputes than any of us can count. There is no credible grounds on which he can play dumb here. And ignorance of the law is not a defense regardless.
Republicans, of course, will go for it, because they don't give a fuck about credibility. But let's not talk about this like we have to play along with their disingenuous bullshit.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:39 PM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Oh wait -- I was gonna share this link I came across with more details about the successful Russian intrusion into Illinois' voter registration system.
Why is The Intercept's story a big bombshell, but this one isn't, and wasn't when it first came out in August? I don't get it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:40 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Why is The Intercept's story a big bombshell, but this one isn't, and wasn't when it first came out in August? I don't get it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:40 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Depending on the GOP congress, it might be.
How much is a torch and a pitchfork these days? Asking for a couple of friends.
Well there are a lot, really.
posted by petebest at 2:41 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
How much is a torch and a pitchfork these days? Asking for a couple of friends.
Well there are a lot, really.
posted by petebest at 2:41 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Republicans are obviously getting a boost in each case--about +4.5% in the House, +7% in the Senate
There are a few different ways you can summarize this, but let me try one that is a little more consistent & defensible than the shooting-from-the-hip method from my own comment above:
HOUSE
Republicans were +1.1% in the popular vote and +5.7% in seats.
Result: +4.6% R bonus due to districting
SENATE
Republicans were -9.4% in the popular vote and +6% in seats.
Result: +15.4% R bonus due to districting.
PRESIDENT
Republicans were -2.1% in the popular vote and +14% in electoral votes.
Result: 16.1% R bonus due to districting
Data source: Wikipedia articles on 2016 elections.
posted by flug at 2:41 PM on June 7, 2017 [38 favorites]
There are a few different ways you can summarize this, but let me try one that is a little more consistent & defensible than the shooting-from-the-hip method from my own comment above:
HOUSE
Republicans were +1.1% in the popular vote and +5.7% in seats.
Result: +4.6% R bonus due to districting
SENATE
Republicans were -9.4% in the popular vote and +6% in seats.
Result: +15.4% R bonus due to districting.
PRESIDENT
Republicans were -2.1% in the popular vote and +14% in electoral votes.
Result: 16.1% R bonus due to districting
Data source: Wikipedia articles on 2016 elections.
posted by flug at 2:41 PM on June 7, 2017 [38 favorites]
mrzarquon pointed out this interesting bit for people who, like me, work towards the President's Volunteer Service Award: "Effective June 1st, and until further notice, certificate packages will not include Presidential letters."
I don't know why they say that the current annual awards don't get presidential signatures -- I've gotten a few Golds and they all had letters signed by President Obama (including the one I got this year). I suppose they could be making a distinction between actual real signatures and printed ones? Or they could just be throwing their hands up in despair.
It wouldn't even be hard to get the signatures, just put the certificates in the pile for Fake Bill Signing Day.
posted by rifflesby at 2:41 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't know why they say that the current annual awards don't get presidential signatures -- I've gotten a few Golds and they all had letters signed by President Obama (including the one I got this year). I suppose they could be making a distinction between actual real signatures and printed ones? Or they could just be throwing their hands up in despair.
It wouldn't even be hard to get the signatures, just put the certificates in the pile for Fake Bill Signing Day.
posted by rifflesby at 2:41 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Statement by Trump's lawyer (I guess sent to reporters, who are re-posting it on Twitter) states that POTUS feels completely and totally vindicated [real], but that Trump isn't getting his phone back anytime soon. [probably true]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:43 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:43 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
POTUS feels completely and totally vindicated
"that the President was not under investigation in any Russian probe"
Let me draw your attention to my friends "was" and "any". Particularly "any", as that's not precisely what Comey's statement said.
And either way, being or not-being under investigation isn't really the problem here.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:49 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
"that the President was not under investigation in any Russian probe"
Let me draw your attention to my friends "was" and "any". Particularly "any", as that's not precisely what Comey's statement said.
And either way, being or not-being under investigation isn't really the problem here.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:49 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Republicans were -2.1% in the popular vote and +14% in electoral votes.
Result: 16.1% R bonus due to districting
I don't understand this at all. Electoral College votes go on a winner takes all state by state basis (except Maine and Nebraska, anyway). Redistricting isn't a factor as far as I understand what you mean...but maybe I'm missing your point entirely!
posted by howfar at 2:50 PM on June 7, 2017
Result: 16.1% R bonus due to districting
I don't understand this at all. Electoral College votes go on a winner takes all state by state basis (except Maine and Nebraska, anyway). Redistricting isn't a factor as far as I understand what you mean...but maybe I'm missing your point entirely!
posted by howfar at 2:50 PM on June 7, 2017
Wife of detained Chinese activist begs Ivanka for “a few words” to “save entire family”
A labor activist investigating the factory that makes Ivanka Trump shoes has been detained by the Chinese government. Now his wife is begging Trump to make a public statement to save her husband's life.
Sorry, I can't think of any pithy commentary to add to this so it's not just a link. It's just so damn depressing.
posted by bluecore at 2:51 PM on June 7, 2017 [32 favorites]
A labor activist investigating the factory that makes Ivanka Trump shoes has been detained by the Chinese government. Now his wife is begging Trump to make a public statement to save her husband's life.
Sorry, I can't think of any pithy commentary to add to this so it's not just a link. It's just so damn depressing.
posted by bluecore at 2:51 PM on June 7, 2017 [32 favorites]
I felt compelled to document my first conversation with the President-Elect in a memo. To ensure accuracy, I began to type it on a laptop in an FBI vehicle outside Trump Tower the moment I walked out of the meeting. Creating written records immediately after one-on-one conversations with Mr. Trump was my practice from that point forward. This had not been my practice in the past.
This is so fascinating, because when I was working as an intel analyst, I was always told by people that if something seemed like it was wrong, I should write a memorandum for record immediately afterwards to preserve what happened, and it would be useful. It never seemed so for me, but I would do it from time to time. Watching Comey's Memorandums For Record basically be the stealth weapon to take down Trump is surreal, to say the least.
posted by corb at 2:52 PM on June 7, 2017 [61 favorites]
This is so fascinating, because when I was working as an intel analyst, I was always told by people that if something seemed like it was wrong, I should write a memorandum for record immediately afterwards to preserve what happened, and it would be useful. It never seemed so for me, but I would do it from time to time. Watching Comey's Memorandums For Record basically be the stealth weapon to take down Trump is surreal, to say the least.
posted by corb at 2:52 PM on June 7, 2017 [61 favorites]
And either way, being or not-being under investigation isn't really the problem here.
Also, he seems to think this is a permanent Get Out of Jail Free card. You weren't personally under investigation at the time you asked the question, but several of your very close associates and campaign in general were. And as Comey indicated, the "Trump is not personally under investigation" bit could change at any moment.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:53 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also, he seems to think this is a permanent Get Out of Jail Free card. You weren't personally under investigation at the time you asked the question, but several of your very close associates and campaign in general were. And as Comey indicated, the "Trump is not personally under investigation" bit could change at any moment.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:53 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't understand this at all. Electoral College votes go on a winner takes all state by state basis (except Maine and Nebraska, anyway).
The Electoral College itself is a districting schema. And arguably an unfair one, at that.
posted by Andrhia at 2:56 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Electoral College itself is a districting schema. And arguably an unfair one, at that.
posted by Andrhia at 2:56 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Hell, working as a substitute teacher, I have often heard kids complain that their regular teacher is awful. "Lost" assignments, hurtful statements, etc. First thing I tell them is if they have a serious problem and they're not just grumbling about personality conflicts, they need to Document. Everything.
So I'm kinda glad to see a real-world example 'cause kids appreciate those.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:57 PM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
So I'm kinda glad to see a real-world example 'cause kids appreciate those.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:57 PM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
Electoral College votes go on a winner takes all state by state basis (except Maine and Nebraska, anyway). Redistricting isn't a factor
It's not "redistricting" it's just "districting." In this case, the "districts" are the states themselves. Because we vote by state and not just a direct popular vote at the national level, Republicans have an advantage in presidential electoral votes compared to the popular vote. Just as they are also over-represented in the House and Senate.
Gerrymandering makes it slightly worse than it otherwise would be in the House (which is supposed to be the most proportional to population, and thus should most resemble the popular vote!)
But really we need multi-member districts!
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's not "redistricting" it's just "districting." In this case, the "districts" are the states themselves. Because we vote by state and not just a direct popular vote at the national level, Republicans have an advantage in presidential electoral votes compared to the popular vote. Just as they are also over-represented in the House and Senate.
Gerrymandering makes it slightly worse than it otherwise would be in the House (which is supposed to be the most proportional to population, and thus should most resemble the popular vote!)
But really we need multi-member districts!
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I want this question tomorrow: "That there wasn't an active CI investigation of the President at that time doesn't mean he'd been exonerated of any possible wrongdoing, correct?"
posted by chris24 at 2:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 2:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
ass-deep in Russians
to the tune of No Sleep Till Brooklyn
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:59 PM on June 7, 2017 [81 favorites]
to the tune of No Sleep Till Brooklyn
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:59 PM on June 7, 2017 [81 favorites]
They should have probably discussed this with their accountant first...
Washington DC Bar Will Give Everyone a Free Drink Every Time Trump Tweets About Comey
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [50 favorites]
Washington DC Bar Will Give Everyone a Free Drink Every Time Trump Tweets About Comey
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [50 favorites]
For reference for tomorrow, from Vulture: how to stream Comey's testimony tomorrow. Not sure how many/which of these will work outside of the US.
posted by yasaman at 3:12 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 3:12 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's not "redistricting" it's just "districting." In this case, the "districts" are the states themselves. Because we vote by state and not just a direct popular vote at the national level, Republicans have an advantage in presidential electoral votes compared to the popular vote. Just as they are also over-represented in the House and Senate.
Ah, indeed. I suppose I'm so entirely convinced that first past the post systems are fundamentally undemocratic that it doesn't occur to me that it needs stating, but it does, of course.
posted by howfar at 3:13 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ah, indeed. I suppose I'm so entirely convinced that first past the post systems are fundamentally undemocratic that it doesn't occur to me that it needs stating, but it does, of course.
posted by howfar at 3:13 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
They should have probably discussed this with their accountant first...
As well as alerting local EMTs.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:16 PM on June 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
As well as alerting local EMTs.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:16 PM on June 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
How much is a torch and a pitchfork these days? Asking for a couple of friends.
If you don't already have one or the other in your calloused hands you're probably bourgie scum. Or something like that.
I'm kidding. These days the proles mainly wear call center headsets or assemble steamed cheeseburgers wrapped in bits of waxed paper, which isn't exactly as thrilling.
Anyway, I happen to sell torches and pitchforks. Well, I sell subscription-based service contracts that allows you unlimited use of a variety of torches, pitchforks and other improvised melee weapons to simplify the hassle and bother of torch and pitchfork ownership and operation and all that pesky maintenance like finding torch fuel, rags and whittling a sturdy stick into a sharp point.
Service levels begin with our most basic plan, The Peasant's Revolt, which allows the subscriber to check out any one pitchfork, torch or melee weapon from the Bronze Library and up to the Gold Bastille Megastabby Deluxe package, which not only allows for a mix of up to 12 improvised melee weapons (including sickles and a variety of pole-arms) up to 6 torches per month, but it also allows any Gold level member exclusive access (for a reasonable fee and surge charge) to our well trained network of angry gig economy peasants who will capably wield your choice of pitchforks and melee weapons in a suitably angry manner.
posted by loquacious at 3:18 PM on June 7, 2017 [64 favorites]
If you don't already have one or the other in your calloused hands you're probably bourgie scum. Or something like that.
I'm kidding. These days the proles mainly wear call center headsets or assemble steamed cheeseburgers wrapped in bits of waxed paper, which isn't exactly as thrilling.
Anyway, I happen to sell torches and pitchforks. Well, I sell subscription-based service contracts that allows you unlimited use of a variety of torches, pitchforks and other improvised melee weapons to simplify the hassle and bother of torch and pitchfork ownership and operation and all that pesky maintenance like finding torch fuel, rags and whittling a sturdy stick into a sharp point.
Service levels begin with our most basic plan, The Peasant's Revolt, which allows the subscriber to check out any one pitchfork, torch or melee weapon from the Bronze Library and up to the Gold Bastille Megastabby Deluxe package, which not only allows for a mix of up to 12 improvised melee weapons (including sickles and a variety of pole-arms) up to 6 torches per month, but it also allows any Gold level member exclusive access (for a reasonable fee and surge charge) to our well trained network of angry gig economy peasants who will capably wield your choice of pitchforks and melee weapons in a suitably angry manner.
posted by loquacious at 3:18 PM on June 7, 2017 [64 favorites]
Hey remember before the election how Jill Stein posted on her website that she supported Brexit and then after some backlash claimed she never supported Brexit and anyone who thought different should clear their cache so they can see her new opinion which she has always had?
That didn't make a lot of sense!
On a definitely unrelated note, Vladimir Putin thought Brexit was a great idea
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:19 PM on June 7, 2017 [40 favorites]
That didn't make a lot of sense!
On a definitely unrelated note, Vladimir Putin thought Brexit was a great idea
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:19 PM on June 7, 2017 [40 favorites]
I am really intrigued by the mechanism of taking 45's phone away from him. Who does it and how, and what level of invective, wheedling, anger and sullen acceptance is there? Does he get more time next time if he's a good boy and not say anything too rude when he gets it back? Is there a points system, or extra ice cream? And has he thought of just asking a flunky to pop down to the Apple Store and pick him up a new one?
(ISTR Obama didn't like losing his Blackberry in 2008 either but negotiated a compromise deal. Sad! Trigger warning: contains image of actual grown-up President, and reports of a press conference that was good-humoured and constructive.)
posted by Devonian at 3:20 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
(ISTR Obama didn't like losing his Blackberry in 2008 either but negotiated a compromise deal. Sad! Trigger warning: contains image of actual grown-up President, and reports of a press conference that was good-humoured and constructive.)
posted by Devonian at 3:20 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
I am really intrigued by the mechanism of taking 45's phone away from him. Who does it and how, and what level of invective, wheedling, anger and sullen acceptance is there?
I honestly believe that whatever poor slob gets the short straw just hangs about until his back is turned, and then they grab it, hide it, and pretend to look for it until he gets so unmanageable they have to "find" it and give it back.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:23 PM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
I honestly believe that whatever poor slob gets the short straw just hangs about until his back is turned, and then they grab it, hide it, and pretend to look for it until he gets so unmanageable they have to "find" it and give it back.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:23 PM on June 7, 2017 [25 favorites]
> [Comey testimony] He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia,
I've been meaning to bring this up in a few different contexts recently, but this is a nice example.
Trump's Mirror actually has two sides to it:
#1. When Trump accuses someone else: "Person A is XYZing," it actually means that Trump himself is XYZing--because why else is it even on his mind? Trump is only capable of understanding other people's actions and motivations on the basis of his own.
#2. When Trump says out of the blue, "I was NOT doing XYZ" then he actually was doing XYZ. Because why else is it even on his mind?
In short, thanks to Trump's Mirror, you can take the above statement as proof positive that Trump is deeply involved with both Russia and Russian hookers.
posted by flug at 3:26 PM on June 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
I've been meaning to bring this up in a few different contexts recently, but this is a nice example.
Trump's Mirror actually has two sides to it:
#1. When Trump accuses someone else: "Person A is XYZing," it actually means that Trump himself is XYZing--because why else is it even on his mind? Trump is only capable of understanding other people's actions and motivations on the basis of his own.
#2. When Trump says out of the blue, "I was NOT doing XYZ" then he actually was doing XYZ. Because why else is it even on his mind?
In short, thanks to Trump's Mirror, you can take the above statement as proof positive that Trump is deeply involved with both Russia and Russian hookers.
posted by flug at 3:26 PM on June 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
I did not tell the President that the FBI and the Department of Justice had been reluctant to make public statements that we did not have an open case on President Trump for a number of reasons, most importantly because it would create a duty to correct, should that change.
I can parse this aside, but I can't quite understand it. Comey did not want to say publicly that the Trump was not under investigation, because then, if an investigation were opened, he'd have a duty to us to tell us, the public, about it. Sure. So keeping the lack of investigation private is to Trump's benefit if at any point an investigation on Trump were opened. But he also states explicitly that he did not share this calculus with Trump?
I suppose the point is that because we're hearing a lot about all the times when Trump was not being investigated, we need to remember that we won't be hearing about it if/when Trump is being investigated.
posted by ProtoStar at 3:28 PM on June 7, 2017
I can parse this aside, but I can't quite understand it. Comey did not want to say publicly that the Trump was not under investigation, because then, if an investigation were opened, he'd have a duty to us to tell us, the public, about it. Sure. So keeping the lack of investigation private is to Trump's benefit if at any point an investigation on Trump were opened. But he also states explicitly that he did not share this calculus with Trump?
I suppose the point is that because we're hearing a lot about all the times when Trump was not being investigated, we need to remember that we won't be hearing about it if/when Trump is being investigated.
posted by ProtoStar at 3:28 PM on June 7, 2017
Trump's Mirror actually has two sides to it:
#1. When Trump accuses someone else: "Person A is XYZing," it actually means that Trump himself is XYZing--because why else is it even on his mind? Trump is only capable of understanding other people's actions and motivations on the basis of his own.
#2. When Trump says out of the blue, "I was NOT doing XYZ" then he actually was doing XYZ. Because why else is it even on his mind?
heh.. I've umm.. known one or two people who operated like this, and i can say, i was shocked and dismayed to realize that they were so ... simple.. that this is what passed for 'clever' on their part.
It makes me sad that such a person could be elected to any head of state in the 21st century. sad for humanity.
posted by some loser at 3:31 PM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
#1. When Trump accuses someone else: "Person A is XYZing," it actually means that Trump himself is XYZing--because why else is it even on his mind? Trump is only capable of understanding other people's actions and motivations on the basis of his own.
#2. When Trump says out of the blue, "I was NOT doing XYZ" then he actually was doing XYZ. Because why else is it even on his mind?
heh.. I've umm.. known one or two people who operated like this, and i can say, i was shocked and dismayed to realize that they were so ... simple.. that this is what passed for 'clever' on their part.
It makes me sad that such a person could be elected to any head of state in the 21st century. sad for humanity.
posted by some loser at 3:31 PM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
50 Shades of Comey from Full Frontal with Samantha Bee
posted by numaner at 3:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by numaner at 3:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump is making America more hostile and mentally ill: New England Journal of Medicine study (Bobby Azarian, Raw Story)
posted by Room 641-A at 3:35 PM on June 7, 2017 [50 favorites]
A new review paper published in the New England Journal of Medicine reports that a growing body of empirical evidence shows how presidential elections can have effects on physical and mental health, and can influence behavior. Specifically, they found evidence that suggests that the campaign and subsequent election of Donald Trump has had a negative effect on the mental well-being of Americans, and in particular those in marginalized groups who are vulnerable to discrimination.Re taking away Trumps's phone, I suggest the Creed Thoughts approach.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:35 PM on June 7, 2017 [50 favorites]
> I am really intrigued by the mechanism of taking 45's phone away from him. Who does it and how, and what level of invective, wheedling, anger and sullen acceptance is there?
I'm curious about this, too. It seems that his entire life, nobody has been willing to say "no" to him. I don't understand why not -- how is he so intimidating? How does he get away with this bullshit?
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm curious about this, too. It seems that his entire life, nobody has been willing to say "no" to him. I don't understand why not -- how is he so intimidating? How does he get away with this bullshit?
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, he has been wealthy for a long time. Samuel Goldwyn is reputed to have said, "I don't want any yes-men around me. I want everybody to tell me the truth even if it costs them their job."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:52 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:52 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm curious about this, too. It seems that his entire life, nobody has been willing to say "no" to him. I don't understand why not -- how is he so intimidating? How does he get away with this bullshit?
Perhaps not intimidating in the traditional sense, but the kind of person who just wears everyone down with tantrums until they're trained to just give him what he wants to avoid the hassle - I've met quite a few people like this.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:54 PM on June 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
Perhaps not intimidating in the traditional sense, but the kind of person who just wears everyone down with tantrums until they're trained to just give him what he wants to avoid the hassle - I've met quite a few people like this.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:54 PM on June 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
I'm curious about this, too. It seems that his entire life, nobody has been willing to say "no" to him. I don't understand why not -- how is he so intimidating? How does he get away with this bullshit?
By playing on some types people's need for power, money and to feel value in themselves by being close and part of 'power'. He offers people identity and had the power to remove it if necessary. And because he is so awful he is pretty good and threatening people with some sort of detrimental action once they are in the circles of his influence.
Getting these people is self selecting. Anyone who sticks around him for any period of time is suspectable and/or okay with this this type of social control. One of Trumps biggest problems right now is that he is forced to deal with people that haven't self selected to be okay with his crap and have no problem saying no or just ignoring him. He doesn't know how to function in a world that hasn't self selected like he's used too.
posted by Jalliah at 3:54 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
> I am really intrigued by the mechanism of taking 45's phone away from him. Who does it and how, and what level of invective, wheedling, anger and sullen acceptance is there?
Better to just put his phone into airplane mode. He still gets to angrily tweet, and the rest of are spared reading them.
posted by mabelstreet at 3:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Better to just put his phone into airplane mode. He still gets to angrily tweet, and the rest of are spared reading them.
posted by mabelstreet at 3:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Brian Beutler: Donald Trump Had Better Be Under FBI Investigation Now:
One prong of that crisis concerns the character of the president: Comey, in so many words, has confirmed that Donald Trump is loyalty obsessed, corrupt in his dealings, and lacking in any sense of what constitutes appropriate checks on the power of the president.posted by zachlipton at 4:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [46 favorites]
A second prong concerns the president’s actions: Trump administration loyalists are taking solace in and spinning the narrow factual point that Comey did in fact assure Trump three times that he was not under FBI investigation. They ignore the largest thematic point that Comey’s story is one of a president slowly, steadily, incriminating himself. If he was not under investigation before he fired Comey, it is imperative that he be so now.
The final prong concerns the fact that the broader government is in control of people intent on enabling Trump, complicit in his wrongdoing. This final prong is the one Comey depicts most indirectly, but it is perhaps the most important. The president and his confidants are engaging in grave wrongdoing, and Republicans are denying the public the political means to stop it.
So Chuck Todd [yeah, I know] was just discussing this thing where some Trump-loving PAC is funding these vicious national anti-Comey smear ads over the next few days and noted that this is a really scary precedent equivalent to "a horse's head in the bed" where an unelected former official who's now a private citizen is attacked as an example to everybody else with information that "if you mess with our guy, we'll destroy you." Pretty chilling.
I was just thinking about this last night! weird.
We have attack ads being run against private citizens now. This is not okay.
posted by Justinian at 4:13 PM on June 7, 2017 [92 favorites]
I was just thinking about this last night! weird.
We have attack ads being run against private citizens now. This is not okay.
posted by Justinian at 4:13 PM on June 7, 2017 [92 favorites]
Side effects of following these threads can include whiplash.
posted by Lyme Drop at 4:17 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 4:17 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Sure. So keeping the lack of investigation private is to Trump's benefit if at any point an investigation on Trump were opened. But he also states explicitly that he did not share this calculus with Trump?"
To me, avoiding the "duty to correct" is more to the benefit of the FBI's reputation, not in a bad way. When you work for that level of government, you want to avoid making statements that might even give the impression of backtracking in the future. So it's good practice to not make assertions unless they are very much confirmed and absolutely necessary.
In fact, Comey was trying to avoid exactly what Trump did in his letter (thanking Comey for multiple assurances that he was not under investigation), only he didn't realize that while in most cases simply not giving the assurance would be enough, Trump was stupid enough to make his up.
posted by Tarumba at 4:20 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
To me, avoiding the "duty to correct" is more to the benefit of the FBI's reputation, not in a bad way. When you work for that level of government, you want to avoid making statements that might even give the impression of backtracking in the future. So it's good practice to not make assertions unless they are very much confirmed and absolutely necessary.
In fact, Comey was trying to avoid exactly what Trump did in his letter (thanking Comey for multiple assurances that he was not under investigation), only he didn't realize that while in most cases simply not giving the assurance would be enough, Trump was stupid enough to make his up.
posted by Tarumba at 4:20 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump reverses course in Qatar call
'Mad Dog' delivers, I guess?
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:21 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
'Mad Dog' delivers, I guess?
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:21 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
we had that thing you know.' I did not reply or ask him what he meant by “that thing.”
and "the McCabe thing"
Comey didn't get that thing he sent him.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:25 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
and "the McCabe thing"
Comey didn't get that thing he sent him.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:25 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
'Mad Dog' delivers, I guess?
And probably a bunch of other people that have a clue. I doubt it was just Mattis that was all wtf are you doing this is not how this works, omg you are such a idiot loser *&^*&^ . (Though they would have left out the loser idiot part of course and maybe the ^%&^% part)
posted by Jalliah at 4:26 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
And probably a bunch of other people that have a clue. I doubt it was just Mattis that was all wtf are you doing this is not how this works, omg you are such a idiot loser *&^*&^ . (Though they would have left out the loser idiot part of course and maybe the ^%&^% part)
posted by Jalliah at 4:26 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump reverses course in Qatar call
'Mad Dog' delivers, I guess?
Only until someone else talks to him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:27 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
'Mad Dog' delivers, I guess?
Only until someone else talks to him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:27 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
From Artw's link re talking to the Qatar Emir: Trump extended an olive branch, offering to help the parties resolve their differences by inviting them to a White House meeting if necessary.
Does this make anyone else think of the episode of the West Wing where a coup occurred while the foreign country's leader was on a state visit to the White House?
Really sorry for making you think about President Bartlett right now.
posted by mabelstreet at 4:28 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Does this make anyone else think of the episode of the West Wing where a coup occurred while the foreign country's leader was on a state visit to the White House?
Really sorry for making you think about President Bartlett right now.
posted by mabelstreet at 4:28 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Trump's comments to Comey were "normal New York City conversation" he didn't realize was inappropriate
Dude is 70, he got elected president, and he has been involved in more legal disputes than any of us can count. There is no credible grounds on which he can play dumb here. And ignorance of the law is not a defense regardless.
Exactly, scaryblackdeath. Not too long ago, on a road trip deep in Trump country, Indiana, I heard a few yahoos in a restaurant chatting about how Trump's becoming President was a "step down" from what he's used to, so of course he can't be expected to know what protocol for, you know, being a head of state is (this was about 4,000 scandals ago, so I can't recall exactly what it was they were referring to that day).
I'm sick to death of the variations on this bullshit I keep hearing. Leaving aside the idiocy of considering the role of "national representative of the most powerful democracy on Earth" a step down, THE FIRST RULE FOR BEING FIT FOR THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY MEANS BEING THE KIND OF PERSON WHO KNOWS, EXCEPTIONALLY WELL, WHAT THE OFFICE ENTAILS, AND ACCEPTING THAT RESPONSIBILITY WITHOUT QUESTION OR PRODDING.
And if you somehow missed that memo, surely you've been briefed as to what it is the numerous advisors, chiefs of staff, and attorneys hanging around are there for. Failing that (?!), you sure as hell don't tell any-got-damn-body you're not to blame for your own actions.
Nope, Trump can fuck himself if he thinks "Beg your pardon, we do it differently on our estate, you see" has any traction.
posted by Rykey at 4:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [68 favorites]
Dude is 70, he got elected president, and he has been involved in more legal disputes than any of us can count. There is no credible grounds on which he can play dumb here. And ignorance of the law is not a defense regardless.
Exactly, scaryblackdeath. Not too long ago, on a road trip deep in Trump country, Indiana, I heard a few yahoos in a restaurant chatting about how Trump's becoming President was a "step down" from what he's used to, so of course he can't be expected to know what protocol for, you know, being a head of state is (this was about 4,000 scandals ago, so I can't recall exactly what it was they were referring to that day).
I'm sick to death of the variations on this bullshit I keep hearing. Leaving aside the idiocy of considering the role of "national representative of the most powerful democracy on Earth" a step down, THE FIRST RULE FOR BEING FIT FOR THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY MEANS BEING THE KIND OF PERSON WHO KNOWS, EXCEPTIONALLY WELL, WHAT THE OFFICE ENTAILS, AND ACCEPTING THAT RESPONSIBILITY WITHOUT QUESTION OR PRODDING.
And if you somehow missed that memo, surely you've been briefed as to what it is the numerous advisors, chiefs of staff, and attorneys hanging around are there for. Failing that (?!), you sure as hell don't tell any-got-damn-body you're not to blame for your own actions.
Nope, Trump can fuck himself if he thinks "Beg your pardon, we do it differently on our estate, you see" has any traction.
posted by Rykey at 4:32 PM on June 7, 2017 [68 favorites]
From the CNN article about Qatar linked above:
posted by mhum at 4:36 PM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
Saudi Arabia has shut the only land border to Qatar, through which the country of 300,000 gets as much as 40% of its food supply, leading to empty shelves in supermarkets and fears that food and water will soon run out.While I haven't been able to find any concrete follow-ups to that "meet our 10 demands in 24 hours" thing from yesterday, this development seems even worse. If I'm not mistaken, blockading a country can be considered an act of war, particularly if the effect is anything similar to what they're saying in the CNN article. This does not seem good.
posted by mhum at 4:36 PM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
just gaze back at them not moving, speaking, or engaging any face muscles. just try. I already know I can't do it.
Yeah, I can do this. It's part of the skillset of working in mental health, not reacting to whatever thing someone just said to you that makes you want to go "WTF??"
I will warn if you practice this and use it in those awkward situations, you WILL be labeled a Bitch From Hell. I'm comfortable with that, but yanno.
posted by threeturtles at 4:43 PM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
Yeah, I can do this. It's part of the skillset of working in mental health, not reacting to whatever thing someone just said to you that makes you want to go "WTF??"
I will warn if you practice this and use it in those awkward situations, you WILL be labeled a Bitch From Hell. I'm comfortable with that, but yanno.
posted by threeturtles at 4:43 PM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
UK election systems remain all paper. The count is done by hand on the night of the ballot.
yoga: You can see the count in process in Leeds for the last general election in this YouTube video. This kind of footage is a familiar sight to anyone in the UK keen enough on politics to stay up to watch the election night coverage.
We're into election day here in the UK; polling stations open in a little over six hours. There's a new FPP for this UK general election just gone live, for those into Brit-politics. It's going to be a long day, and I suspect a long five years afterwards, ahead. (Prediction: in five years time, Boris Johnson will be the UK Prime Minister, while Americans will be well into the first term of Amy Klobuchar as POTUS)
posted by Wordshore at 4:44 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
yoga: You can see the count in process in Leeds for the last general election in this YouTube video. This kind of footage is a familiar sight to anyone in the UK keen enough on politics to stay up to watch the election night coverage.
We're into election day here in the UK; polling stations open in a little over six hours. There's a new FPP for this UK general election just gone live, for those into Brit-politics. It's going to be a long day, and I suspect a long five years afterwards, ahead. (Prediction: in five years time, Boris Johnson will be the UK Prime Minister, while Americans will be well into the first term of Amy Klobuchar as POTUS)
posted by Wordshore at 4:44 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
just gaze back at them not moving, speaking, or engaging any face muscles. just try. I already know I can't do it.
We had a class (just one) in Coast Guard basic training on dealing with the media. Mostly it was "Always refer everything to someone higher up the chain because at your level you probably don't have the full picture," but they talked about reporter techniques. The big one was how reporters will use silence to compel you to say something more than you mean. They ask, you answer, and then they just wait with a blank face as if to imply you should say something more. And then it gets awkward and by implication it's your fault so you say something more than you should to fill the silence or end the conversation.
I never got interviewed by any reporters, but even so I kinda can't articulate how incredibly useful a lesson that was for me at age 19.
...and don't bother staring at me in silence to get me to try, 'cause that trick won't work.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:48 PM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
We had a class (just one) in Coast Guard basic training on dealing with the media. Mostly it was "Always refer everything to someone higher up the chain because at your level you probably don't have the full picture," but they talked about reporter techniques. The big one was how reporters will use silence to compel you to say something more than you mean. They ask, you answer, and then they just wait with a blank face as if to imply you should say something more. And then it gets awkward and by implication it's your fault so you say something more than you should to fill the silence or end the conversation.
I never got interviewed by any reporters, but even so I kinda can't articulate how incredibly useful a lesson that was for me at age 19.
...and don't bother staring at me in silence to get me to try, 'cause that trick won't work.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:48 PM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
I'm curious about this, too. It seems that his entire life, nobody has been willing to say "no" to him. I don't understand why not -- how is he so intimidating? How does he get away with this bullshit?
I've been thinking about this in light of the revelations about the Eric Trump Foundation. When it started it was squeaky clean with very few expenses and nearly all the funds raised going to St. Jude. The board was just Eric and a few friends. Then 4 years after he started it got hijacked. The friends were off the board and DJT employees like Michael "sez who" Cohen replaced them. That's when money-- hundreds of thousands of dollars-- started being funneled into Dad's pocket by way of inflated golf course fees and so forth.
Did Eric ever resist? Did he ever have a moment when he tried to tell Dad, "No." I don't know if Eric is as bad as we make him out to be, yet I also don't know if he was just unaware that the family could make money off of his foundation. I just think this is a troubling story about one son trying to do something good and it getting turned into one of DJT's little scams.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on June 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
I've been thinking about this in light of the revelations about the Eric Trump Foundation. When it started it was squeaky clean with very few expenses and nearly all the funds raised going to St. Jude. The board was just Eric and a few friends. Then 4 years after he started it got hijacked. The friends were off the board and DJT employees like Michael "sez who" Cohen replaced them. That's when money-- hundreds of thousands of dollars-- started being funneled into Dad's pocket by way of inflated golf course fees and so forth.
Did Eric ever resist? Did he ever have a moment when he tried to tell Dad, "No." I don't know if Eric is as bad as we make him out to be, yet I also don't know if he was just unaware that the family could make money off of his foundation. I just think this is a troubling story about one son trying to do something good and it getting turned into one of DJT's little scams.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on June 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
Wait, what's up with Comey constantly mentioning the grandfather clock?
there's money in the grandfather clock.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:57 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
there's money in the grandfather clock.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:57 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Not only is Comey 86 times smarter than Trump, he has a much, much better team that helped him construct and deploy his "If I Get Fired" Contingency Plan and Info Release Strategy -- and, of course, Comey's other big advantage is that he accepts and follows these very wise people's advice.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:57 PM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:57 PM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Did Eric ever resist?
I bet the kids have been groomed to take the emotional abuse from a young age. Donald didn't want to have the embarrassement of shipping either of them off to military school like his dad did.
posted by rhizome at 4:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
I bet the kids have been groomed to take the emotional abuse from a young age. Donald didn't want to have the embarrassement of shipping either of them off to military school like his dad did.
posted by rhizome at 4:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Wait, what's up with Comey constantly mentioning the grandfather clock?
It shows the level of precision and thoroughness in his memo-notes and serves as a visual memory aid (like Hannibal Lecter's mind palace!). Plus if anybody in, say, a court of law ever tries to trip him up or make it look like he has memory gaps -- "And which door did the Attorney General exit through, Mr. Comey?" -- well, don't even go there, dude.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:01 PM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
It shows the level of precision and thoroughness in his memo-notes and serves as a visual memory aid (like Hannibal Lecter's mind palace!). Plus if anybody in, say, a court of law ever tries to trip him up or make it look like he has memory gaps -- "And which door did the Attorney General exit through, Mr. Comey?" -- well, don't even go there, dude.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:01 PM on June 7, 2017 [18 favorites]
They ask, you answer, and then they just wait with a blank face as if to imply you should say something more. And then it gets awkward and by implication it's your fault so you say something more than you should to fill the silence or end the conversation.
AKA the Batman interrogation technique.
The ability to not fill in uncomfortable silences is a skill every #resistance activist should learn.
The ability to entice other people into filling them in is also useful, but less universally important - some people don't start with the right combination of curiosity/threat that jump-starts others' "I gotta say something" reaction, and learning it isn't always worth the effort it takes.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:01 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
AKA the Batman interrogation technique.
The ability to not fill in uncomfortable silences is a skill every #resistance activist should learn.
The ability to entice other people into filling them in is also useful, but less universally important - some people don't start with the right combination of curiosity/threat that jump-starts others' "I gotta say something" reaction, and learning it isn't always worth the effort it takes.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:01 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm curious about this, too. It seems that his entire life, nobody has been willing to say "no" to him. I don't understand why not -- how is he so intimidating? How does he get away with this bullshit?
I asked a similar question (albeit from the angle of Trump's relationship with Congress) back in December. The responses I got might or might not be instructive wrt your question. (Yes, I realize Trump is the White House staff's boss, whereas he's not Congress's... technically, at least)
posted by Rykey at 5:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I asked a similar question (albeit from the angle of Trump's relationship with Congress) back in December. The responses I got might or might not be instructive wrt your question. (Yes, I realize Trump is the White House staff's boss, whereas he's not Congress's... technically, at least)
posted by Rykey at 5:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
> Brian Beutler: Donald Trump Had Better Be Under FBI Investigation Now: . . .
The analysis of Comey's testimony tends to revolve a bit too much around the specifics of whether this or that particular statement or incident amounted to obstruction of justice.
The much, much larger overriding question here is this: Was Comey's firing a Saturday Night Massacre?
That is to say: Was it an action designed to slow or stop further investigation into wrongdoing by Trump or his associates? Was the firing itself an obstruction of justice?
Based on Comey's testimony, the answer is very, very clear:
Yes, the firing was a Saturday Night Massacre. Yes, the firing itself constitutes obstruction of justice.
It was an action taken by Trump precisely because Comey would not pledge the loyalty Trump wanted him to pledge (which clearly was placed in the context of moderating the Bureau's activities and investigations as needed to serve Trump's political ends) and because he would not stop the investigations Trump wanted him to stop.
posted by flug at 5:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
They ignore the largest thematic point that Comey’s story is one of a president slowly, steadily, incriminating himself.
The analysis of Comey's testimony tends to revolve a bit too much around the specifics of whether this or that particular statement or incident amounted to obstruction of justice.
The much, much larger overriding question here is this: Was Comey's firing a Saturday Night Massacre?
That is to say: Was it an action designed to slow or stop further investigation into wrongdoing by Trump or his associates? Was the firing itself an obstruction of justice?
Based on Comey's testimony, the answer is very, very clear:
Yes, the firing was a Saturday Night Massacre. Yes, the firing itself constitutes obstruction of justice.
It was an action taken by Trump precisely because Comey would not pledge the loyalty Trump wanted him to pledge (which clearly was placed in the context of moderating the Bureau's activities and investigations as needed to serve Trump's political ends) and because he would not stop the investigations Trump wanted him to stop.
posted by flug at 5:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [45 favorites]
Trash Midas was in Cincinnati today, talkin' about infrastructure. I didn't go down to any protests, but was following local journalists on twitter. A few takeaways:
1. Local tornado siren tests always happen the first Wednesday of the month shortly after noon. As it happened, there were also ominous looking dark clouds gathering, and this apparently was when Trump was landing in Cincinnati.
2. Apparently at one point he turned from his remarks to wave at a barge operator on the Ohio River. I find this kind of laughably pathetic (as in, awww, what a dopey New Yorker) because barges are a dime a dozen on the Ohio River.
3. The Kentucky governor (Matt Bevin) attended but the Ohio governor (John Kasich) was nowhere in sight
4. This chucklehead had the balls to come talk to Cincinnati about infrastructure, where we have one of the worst bridges in the country (the Brent Spence bridge is the main bridge over the Ohio River between KY and OH for I-75 and I-75 and is fucking terrifying for several reasons), and THIS ASSHOLE DIDN'T SAY A GODDAMN THING ABOUT THE FUCKING BRENT SPENCE. As a local city councilman put it, coming to Cincinnati to talk about infrastructure and not mentioning the Brent Spence is like coming here to talk about baseball and not mentioning the Reds.
posted by mostly vowels at 5:10 PM on June 7, 2017 [38 favorites]
1. Local tornado siren tests always happen the first Wednesday of the month shortly after noon. As it happened, there were also ominous looking dark clouds gathering, and this apparently was when Trump was landing in Cincinnati.
2. Apparently at one point he turned from his remarks to wave at a barge operator on the Ohio River. I find this kind of laughably pathetic (as in, awww, what a dopey New Yorker) because barges are a dime a dozen on the Ohio River.
3. The Kentucky governor (Matt Bevin) attended but the Ohio governor (John Kasich) was nowhere in sight
4. This chucklehead had the balls to come talk to Cincinnati about infrastructure, where we have one of the worst bridges in the country (the Brent Spence bridge is the main bridge over the Ohio River between KY and OH for I-75 and I-75 and is fucking terrifying for several reasons), and THIS ASSHOLE DIDN'T SAY A GODDAMN THING ABOUT THE FUCKING BRENT SPENCE. As a local city councilman put it, coming to Cincinnati to talk about infrastructure and not mentioning the Brent Spence is like coming here to talk about baseball and not mentioning the Reds.
posted by mostly vowels at 5:10 PM on June 7, 2017 [38 favorites]
Politco: Melania Trump set to make her D.C. move next week. They're moving next week, but see this:
posted by zachlipton at 5:18 PM on June 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
It’s still not clear exactly what initiative Melania Trump will make her platform — during the campaign, she said she would use the role of first lady to speak out against cyberbullying. But that initiative has since been cast aside, another White House official said.So that's not happening I guess. Also, they've come up with an explanation for why she swatted her husband's away:
Her spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, claimed Melania Trump is still passionate about the issue, even though she has yet to highlight it in any public appearance. “While cyber-bullying is something she speaks out against, that is but one subset of her focus around the overall wellness of children,” Grisham said in an email.
The one memorable gaffe of the trip involving her — when she appeared to bat away Trump’s outstretched hand on the Tel Aviv tarmac — was not intended to be a repudiation of her husband, according to a person who has spoken to the couple about the embarrassing incident. Instead, that person said, it was the first lady being attuned to protocol and pushing away what she saw as an inappropriate gesture for an official arrival.I'm not entirely sure "the President was behaving inappropriately but his wife knew better and stopped him" is the story they decided to go with, but here we are.
posted by zachlipton at 5:18 PM on June 7, 2017 [21 favorites]
I don't know if Eric is as bad as we make him out to be
Eric is willing to go in front of a camera and say that people who oppose his father aren't human beings. Unfortunately for us, he is a human being, and a terrible one at that. I reserve no pity for the spoiled and unrepentant children of tyrants.
Trash Midas was in Cincinnati today
I have no fucking clue why he keeps coming to Cincinnati. Clinton/Kaine whomped his pustulent ass here by over 10 points (>32,000 votes) back in November. His supporters all live in the dull outer suburbs, or across the river in Kentucky.
posted by Strange Interlude at 5:26 PM on June 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
Eric is willing to go in front of a camera and say that people who oppose his father aren't human beings. Unfortunately for us, he is a human being, and a terrible one at that. I reserve no pity for the spoiled and unrepentant children of tyrants.
Trash Midas was in Cincinnati today
I have no fucking clue why he keeps coming to Cincinnati. Clinton/Kaine whomped his pustulent ass here by over 10 points (>32,000 votes) back in November. His supporters all live in the dull outer suburbs, or across the river in Kentucky.
posted by Strange Interlude at 5:26 PM on June 7, 2017 [20 favorites]
Eric is willing to go in front of a camera and say that people who oppose his father aren't human beings.
I figured this would come up as evidence against him, I'm just surprised you didn't mention he also hunts big game. However I don't see the proof that he is evil through and through. In fact the evidence from when he started his charity would seem to show that he does have a nugget of goodness somewhere. He could have spent his 20's just doing rich boy shit.
This is not to say he deserves our pity. Yet I do very occasionally feel sorry for all the Trump children and all the Trump wives because DJT is such a monster who sows chaos and discontent where ever he goes.
So based on the evening's cable news shows (my boyfriend put them on, send help!) the current Trump surrogate line is that Trump was asking Comey for loyalty TO THE CONSTITUTION?!
Oh FFS. Anybody who buys that bullshit was asking to be duped.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:41 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
I figured this would come up as evidence against him, I'm just surprised you didn't mention he also hunts big game. However I don't see the proof that he is evil through and through. In fact the evidence from when he started his charity would seem to show that he does have a nugget of goodness somewhere. He could have spent his 20's just doing rich boy shit.
This is not to say he deserves our pity. Yet I do very occasionally feel sorry for all the Trump children and all the Trump wives because DJT is such a monster who sows chaos and discontent where ever he goes.
So based on the evening's cable news shows (my boyfriend put them on, send help!) the current Trump surrogate line is that Trump was asking Comey for loyalty TO THE CONSTITUTION?!
Oh FFS. Anybody who buys that bullshit was asking to be duped.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:41 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
I love how little sense that makes. If that was true, why was Trump's response when Comey said no to ask for honesty instead of saying "WTF why won't you be loyal to the Constitution?" It's not even a good lie.
posted by zachlipton at 5:43 PM on June 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:43 PM on June 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
coming to Cincinnati to talk about infrastructure and not mentioning the Brent Spence is like coming here to talk about baseball and not mentioning the Reds.
QFT. I left Cincinnati a few years ago, and even then this atheist prayed every time I had to cross that rusty death trap.
posted by Rykey at 5:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
QFT. I left Cincinnati a few years ago, and even then this atheist prayed every time I had to cross that rusty death trap.
posted by Rykey at 5:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
In fact the evidence from when he started his charity would seem to show that he does have a nugget of goodness somewhere. He could have spent his 20's just doing rich boy shit.
Given that the Trump Foundation is and always has been a grift, him starting a charity isn't necessarily evidence of good intention.
posted by chris24 at 5:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Given that the Trump Foundation is and always has been a grift, him starting a charity isn't necessarily evidence of good intention.
posted by chris24 at 5:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
I have no fucking clue why he keeps coming to Cincinnati.[...] His supporters all live in the dull outer suburbs, or across the river in Kentucky.
Probably for the same reason he claims to represent the fine people of Pittsburgh. Honestly, the fact that he keeps trying to claim Midwest cities like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati under his mantle makes me want to fucking scream because it contributes to this weird phenomenon where the exurban/suburban sprawl vote keeps getting written out of the electoral narrative.
posted by mostly vowels at 5:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Probably for the same reason he claims to represent the fine people of Pittsburgh. Honestly, the fact that he keeps trying to claim Midwest cities like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati under his mantle makes me want to fucking scream because it contributes to this weird phenomenon where the exurban/suburban sprawl vote keeps getting written out of the electoral narrative.
posted by mostly vowels at 5:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
[Quoting myself:] Yes, the firing was a Saturday Night Massacre. Yes, the firing itself constitutes obstruction of justice.
And I know you all are very well aware of this, but still I'll take the occasion to remind you: This isn't some wackadoodle far-fetched interpretation. It's Trump's OWN interpretation.
From his firing letter to Comey:
Because that is the context that Trump himself understood it in, and it is the context he wanted us all to understand it in as well.
This really is not a difficult or complex issue. It's exactly what Trump was thinking about when he decided to fire Comey, and it's exactly the reason he did it. He's admitted it himself on essentially every occasion he has talked about it (ie, to the Russians in the Oval Office).
posted by flug at 5:46 PM on June 7, 2017 [39 favorites]
And I know you all are very well aware of this, but still I'll take the occasion to remind you: This isn't some wackadoodle far-fetched interpretation. It's Trump's OWN interpretation.
From his firing letter to Comey:
While I greatly appreciate you informing me, on three separate occasions, that I am not under investigation, I nevertheless concur with the judgment of the Department of Justice that you are not able to effectively lead the Bureau.Why in the world is Trump taking pains to carefully place Comey's firing into the context of the investigations into Trump and his confederates?
Because that is the context that Trump himself understood it in, and it is the context he wanted us all to understand it in as well.
This really is not a difficult or complex issue. It's exactly what Trump was thinking about when he decided to fire Comey, and it's exactly the reason he did it. He's admitted it himself on essentially every occasion he has talked about it (ie, to the Russians in the Oval Office).
posted by flug at 5:46 PM on June 7, 2017 [39 favorites]
exurban/suburban sprawl vote keeps getting written out of the electoral narrative.
Truth. And honestly as someone who has lived my whole life in the urban core of the city, hearing someone who lives in Cranberry (an exurban and very wealthy township about 20 miles north of the city) say they live "in Pittsburgh" or are "from Pittsburgh" has always made my gorge rise. Coming into town once every few months to go to dinner and a show doesn't mean you're a Pittsburgher, motherfucker. Now it extra missed me off because those fuckers made Trump happen.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:51 PM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Truth. And honestly as someone who has lived my whole life in the urban core of the city, hearing someone who lives in Cranberry (an exurban and very wealthy township about 20 miles north of the city) say they live "in Pittsburgh" or are "from Pittsburgh" has always made my gorge rise. Coming into town once every few months to go to dinner and a show doesn't mean you're a Pittsburgher, motherfucker. Now it extra missed me off because those fuckers made Trump happen.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:51 PM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
I figured this would come up as evidence against him, I'm just surprised you didn't mention he also hunts big game. However I don't see the proof that he is evil through and through.
This constant need to empathize with and inexplicably somehow validate the Trump spawn like they aren't knowingly and systematically diverting the US treasury directly to their pockets every single moment of every single day keeps getting more and more disgusting every time.
All the Trumps are culpable. Their entire organization is stealing from the tax payers. They are all violating the enoulments clause and countless federal ethics rules. They can and should all be thrown in jail, and would be if they were any other people in the universe. Defending them is indefensible. All. The. Trumps. Are. Evil. All. Of. Them. No. Exceptions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:53 PM on June 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
This constant need to empathize with and inexplicably somehow validate the Trump spawn like they aren't knowingly and systematically diverting the US treasury directly to their pockets every single moment of every single day keeps getting more and more disgusting every time.
All the Trumps are culpable. Their entire organization is stealing from the tax payers. They are all violating the enoulments clause and countless federal ethics rules. They can and should all be thrown in jail, and would be if they were any other people in the universe. Defending them is indefensible. All. The. Trumps. Are. Evil. All. Of. Them. No. Exceptions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:53 PM on June 7, 2017 [37 favorites]
I don't know why I'm defending him.
Given that the Trump Foundation is and always has been a grift, him starting a charity isn't necessarily evidence of good intention.
posted by chris24 at 8:45 PM on June 7 [+] [!]
So of course that's the natural conclusion. Except. For four years he ran a squeaky clean operation. Had no phony expenses. Just him and a few pals and a golf tournament where everything was comped so that all the money was raised was turned over to St. Jude. They hired no employees. Took no salaries. etc. Just put in the time and effort-- and I'm well aware that he could only do this because he had a rich daddy and lots of rich friends. And for all I know ALL the rich kids spend their spare time running charities because its something different to do. But I suspect that most are not because they would rather be jetting off to (rich person's getaway) and throwing themselves parties and shopping.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:54 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Given that the Trump Foundation is and always has been a grift, him starting a charity isn't necessarily evidence of good intention.
posted by chris24 at 8:45 PM on June 7 [+] [!]
So of course that's the natural conclusion. Except. For four years he ran a squeaky clean operation. Had no phony expenses. Just him and a few pals and a golf tournament where everything was comped so that all the money was raised was turned over to St. Jude. They hired no employees. Took no salaries. etc. Just put in the time and effort-- and I'm well aware that he could only do this because he had a rich daddy and lots of rich friends. And for all I know ALL the rich kids spend their spare time running charities because its something different to do. But I suspect that most are not because they would rather be jetting off to (rich person's getaway) and throwing themselves parties and shopping.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:54 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sorry, why are we trying to drum up sympathy for Eric?
posted by Artw at 5:54 PM on June 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:54 PM on June 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
Wait, what's up with Comey constantly mentioning the grandfather clock?
Has no one seen Laura?
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 5:55 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
Has no one seen Laura?
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 5:55 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
QFT. I left Cincinnati a few years ago, and even then this atheist prayed every time I had to cross that rusty death trap.
NPR: Ohio River's Brent Spence Bridge Serves As Symbol Of U.S. Infrastructure Woes
Ya know, "structurally sound, functionally obsolete" is one of those phrases that I'm sure someone thought was benign but is actually quite terrifying.
posted by mostly vowels at 5:55 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
NPR: Ohio River's Brent Spence Bridge Serves As Symbol Of U.S. Infrastructure Woes
Ya know, "structurally sound, functionally obsolete" is one of those phrases that I'm sure someone thought was benign but is actually quite terrifying.
posted by mostly vowels at 5:55 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm having trouble finding a cite for this, but I could swear he's said that publicly at least once before -- that there was no way such a tape could exist, because he 'obviously' presumed that he could be recorded in foreign hotels.
...I mean, that fixation on 'the tape can't exist because I knew better than to get recorded' wasn't a great excuse that time either, for obvious reasons, but I don't think this is actually a wholly new claim.
It was this story:
“It’s made up. Never existed. Never happened,” Trump continued, speaking specifically about the unverified report regarding the prostitutes. “And the reason I say that so strongly because nothing is ever going to show up. There’s never going to be a tape that shows up. There’s never going to be anything that shows up. Now, I would be very embarrassed if a tape actually showed up, saying something like that. It would be double embarrassed because I’m saying there is no tape. There is no event. I was never even in that room for that period of time.”
posted by ymgve at 6:00 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
...I mean, that fixation on 'the tape can't exist because I knew better than to get recorded' wasn't a great excuse that time either, for obvious reasons, but I don't think this is actually a wholly new claim.
It was this story:
“It’s made up. Never existed. Never happened,” Trump continued, speaking specifically about the unverified report regarding the prostitutes. “And the reason I say that so strongly because nothing is ever going to show up. There’s never going to be a tape that shows up. There’s never going to be anything that shows up. Now, I would be very embarrassed if a tape actually showed up, saying something like that. It would be double embarrassed because I’m saying there is no tape. There is no event. I was never even in that room for that period of time.”
posted by ymgve at 6:00 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
> Actual CNN chyron right now: COMEY: TRUMP SAID HE WASN'T INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA
[real]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:01 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
[real]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:01 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Two things I haven't seen mentioned here yet:
The President's response to the terrorist attacks in Iran that, naturally, is rather heartless, undercuts the State Dept. statement on the attacks, and completely ignores the complexity of who sponsors and who is victimized by which terrorist groups in the Middle East. (Sorry for the format, but here's a twitter link to both statements from Daniel Dale.)
Additionally, as per Politico, apparently Democratic Reps & Senators are planning to sue regarding emoluments clause violations?! This sounds like it could be big, or am I completely misreading things?
posted by ubersturm at 6:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
The President's response to the terrorist attacks in Iran that, naturally, is rather heartless, undercuts the State Dept. statement on the attacks, and completely ignores the complexity of who sponsors and who is victimized by which terrorist groups in the Middle East. (Sorry for the format, but here's a twitter link to both statements from Daniel Dale.)
Additionally, as per Politico, apparently Democratic Reps & Senators are planning to sue regarding emoluments clause violations?! This sounds like it could be big, or am I completely misreading things?
posted by ubersturm at 6:03 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
On a normal day, the heartlessness of the Iran statement would be a massive scandal of its own. It ought to be.
posted by zachlipton at 6:05 PM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:05 PM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
Sorry, why are we trying to drum up sympathy for Eric?
I guess I'm not making myself very clear here. My point was not to sympathize with Eric. It was not to portray him as any less a villain. I just noted that he ran his charity the "right" way until his father muscled his way in and then it went to hell. And I wondered if that was because no one can say "No" to DJT. That's it. That's as far as my "sympathy" goes.
Now. I'm going right back to viewing him as the nasty under-cooked guy who thinks that Democrats are not humans.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
Some things are just so damn hard to remember no matter how hard you try . . .
posted by flug at 6:15 PM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
Some things are just so damn hard to remember no matter how hard you try . . .
posted by flug at 6:15 PM on June 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
Was anyone else reminded of being the victim of unwelcome advances when reading the Comey testimony? It felt more than a bit creepy and eerily familiar.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:21 PM on June 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:21 PM on June 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
One other important thing that happened today: McConnell began the process under Rule 14 to fast-track the AHCA. They don't have a bill yet in the Senate, but this bypasses the need to refer it to any committees, so it could go directly to the floor for a vote as soon as Republicans are ready.
Do not be distracted by the tall man trying to blend in with the drapes. Call your Republican Senators, if any, and tell them how you oppose Medicaid cuts and the AHCA.
posted by zachlipton at 6:25 PM on June 7, 2017 [67 favorites]
Do not be distracted by the tall man trying to blend in with the drapes. Call your Republican Senators, if any, and tell them how you oppose Medicaid cuts and the AHCA.
posted by zachlipton at 6:25 PM on June 7, 2017 [67 favorites]
Was anyone else reminded of being the victim of unwelcome advances when reading the Comey testimony? It felt more than a bit creepy and eerily familiar.
Sure -- predatory and abusive behavior falls into predictable patterns regardless of the specific object/goal.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:27 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sure -- predatory and abusive behavior falls into predictable patterns regardless of the specific object/goal.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:27 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
...hearing someone who lives in Cranberry (an exurban and very wealthy township about 20 miles north of the city) say they live "in Pittsburgh" or are "from Pittsburgh" has always made my gorge rise. Coming into town once every few months to go to dinner and a show doesn't mean you're a Pittsburgher, motherfucker. Now it extra missed me off because those fuckers made Trump happen.
As one of the 'motherfuckers' who lives in Cranberry and proudly calls himself a Pittsburgher....
Only between the two of them, Trump beat Hillary in Cranberry's 9 districts 9817-5934, 62% to 38%, versus Butler County's 64431-28586 or 70-30%
Going back 8 years,McCain outperformed Obama here 9326 (65%) to 5107 (35%) vs. Butler County's 57074-32260 (63 - 36%)
Cranberry is slowly moving to the left but with all things it takes time (and don't get me started on Metcalfe....). Hillary more than outperformed Obama here versus Butler County as a whole. The fuckers in Butler (and Lawrence, and Beaver, and Westmoreland, and Fayette, and Armstrong) counties are why Trump happened. Some of us motherfuckers are trying to fight the good fight deep in red (and purple) country. It doesn't take a lot of courage to put a Hillary sign outside in Lawrenceville. (or hold a rally in Squirrel Hill...) Try it in Evans City. Go Pens.
posted by splen at 6:29 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
As one of the 'motherfuckers' who lives in Cranberry and proudly calls himself a Pittsburgher....
Only between the two of them, Trump beat Hillary in Cranberry's 9 districts 9817-5934, 62% to 38%, versus Butler County's 64431-28586 or 70-30%
Going back 8 years,McCain outperformed Obama here 9326 (65%) to 5107 (35%) vs. Butler County's 57074-32260 (63 - 36%)
Cranberry is slowly moving to the left but with all things it takes time (and don't get me started on Metcalfe....). Hillary more than outperformed Obama here versus Butler County as a whole. The fuckers in Butler (and Lawrence, and Beaver, and Westmoreland, and Fayette, and Armstrong) counties are why Trump happened. Some of us motherfuckers are trying to fight the good fight deep in red (and purple) country. It doesn't take a lot of courage to put a Hillary sign outside in Lawrenceville. (or hold a rally in Squirrel Hill...) Try it in Evans City. Go Pens.
posted by splen at 6:29 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
WSJ Five Questions Raised by James Comey’s Testimony
Did the president’s actions amount to obstruction of justice?posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:29 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Why did Mr. Comey take notes after his meetings with President Trump, but not President Barack Obama ?
Why did Mr. Comey have so few private meetings with President Obama, and so many with President Trump?
If Mr. Trump’s actions were objectionable to Mr. Comey, why didn’t he resign?
Why did top Justice Department officials not respond to Mr. Comey’s contacts?
Do we start a clock for how quickly the Republican talking points shift to "Obviously Obama didn't care about law enforcement if he only talked to Comey in private twice," or are they already way ahead of me on that?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:45 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
What's it like being so tall?
Do you carry a gun to work?
Do you know the lyrics to Danny Boy?
posted by spitbull at 6:47 PM on June 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
Do you carry a gun to work?
Do you know the lyrics to Danny Boy?
posted by spitbull at 6:47 PM on June 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
WSJ: RNC to Lead Trump’s Offensive Against Comey. The sense I'm getting here is that the White House communications shop is such a mess that the RNC is taking over, with a team of around 60 staffers gearing up to attack Comey and Democrats, including a team pulling together clips of times when Democrats criticized Comey.
First of all, it's not normal for the White House to be so unable to defend itself that the party is stepping in, but this is also the most clear sign yet that Trumpism, and defending Trump's worst behavior, is the primary priority of the entire Republican Party at this point.
posted by zachlipton at 6:51 PM on June 7, 2017 [83 favorites]
First of all, it's not normal for the White House to be so unable to defend itself that the party is stepping in, but this is also the most clear sign yet that Trumpism, and defending Trump's worst behavior, is the primary priority of the entire Republican Party at this point.
posted by zachlipton at 6:51 PM on June 7, 2017 [83 favorites]
Gosh, RNC, awkward timing but, uh, just four hours ago Trump's lawyer said he felt completely vindicated so I guess thanks for the quick hustle, but you can pack it in?
What's that? Ohhh, right - words don't mean anything anymore, I almost forgot.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:56 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
What's that? Ohhh, right - words don't mean anything anymore, I almost forgot.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:56 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump has so many people propping him up at this point it's a wonder he can even move.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
CNN reports that Trump has an open morning tomorrow until noon.
If you're in DC, definitely go to a bar.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:00 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
If you're in DC, definitely go to a bar.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:00 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Was anyone else reminded of being the victim of unwelcome advances when reading the Comey testimony? It felt more than a bit creepy and eerily familiar.
Alexandra Petri (and #yesallwomen) did: James Comey, is this man bothering you?
posted by Dashy at 7:04 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump has so many people propping him up at this point it's a wonder he can even move.
Calling all photoshoppers
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 7:05 PM on June 7, 2017
Calling all photoshoppers
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 7:05 PM on June 7, 2017
> Now it extra missed me off because those fuckers made Trump happen.
> As one of the 'motherfuckers' who lives in Cranberry and proudly calls himself a Pittsburgher....
I live somewhere in between the two of you -- Pittsburgh mailing address, but still about a five minute drive from the city proper -- and I guess my views on the issues raised in your comments are somewhere in the middle as well. Generally speaking, I think it's fine for someone who lives in the metro area of a city to say they're "from" the city. I grew up in Philadelphia, but when my parents moved to the burbs, I didn't stop saying I was from Philly. Even if I hadn't grown up in the city, I think I'd still have felt like I was "from" Philly. It's kind of a cultural thing, and since a lot of people you meet don't know where Norristown or Cranberry are, you just tell them you're from Philly or Pittsburgh.
With that said, there is a serious problem of suburbs draining away resources from cities while using them as their economic engine. Cranberry in particular has exploded in population because of the lower taxes there, but the same is true of other suburban areas, including where I live. I totally understand the resentment city dwellers feel when folks come in and use their services without paying in to the same extent that city residents do.
Still, I feel like it's not a great look to be talking about "those fuckers" in the suburbs as if suburbanites are monolithic. This is the same sort of thing that has led to MeTas and moderator intervention to ask folks to not paint so broad a brush with southerners, people who live in so-called "flyover country", etc. I think we get that it's disrespectful to blame Trump's election on "Texans" when there are Texans right here on MeFi who've told us how hard they're fighting to get Democrats elected, and I don't see why the same principle shouldn't apply in a narrower regional context.
I happen to think that a 6% reduction in the GOP vote share in Cranberry from 2008 to 2016 is pretty thin gruel considering that the 2016 candidate was Donald Fucking Trump, but still, it's something, and maybe if folks weren't fighting harder there, it'd be even worse. I expect better, but I accept that it's tough out there, and that progress takes time.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
> As one of the 'motherfuckers' who lives in Cranberry and proudly calls himself a Pittsburgher....
I live somewhere in between the two of you -- Pittsburgh mailing address, but still about a five minute drive from the city proper -- and I guess my views on the issues raised in your comments are somewhere in the middle as well. Generally speaking, I think it's fine for someone who lives in the metro area of a city to say they're "from" the city. I grew up in Philadelphia, but when my parents moved to the burbs, I didn't stop saying I was from Philly. Even if I hadn't grown up in the city, I think I'd still have felt like I was "from" Philly. It's kind of a cultural thing, and since a lot of people you meet don't know where Norristown or Cranberry are, you just tell them you're from Philly or Pittsburgh.
With that said, there is a serious problem of suburbs draining away resources from cities while using them as their economic engine. Cranberry in particular has exploded in population because of the lower taxes there, but the same is true of other suburban areas, including where I live. I totally understand the resentment city dwellers feel when folks come in and use their services without paying in to the same extent that city residents do.
Still, I feel like it's not a great look to be talking about "those fuckers" in the suburbs as if suburbanites are monolithic. This is the same sort of thing that has led to MeTas and moderator intervention to ask folks to not paint so broad a brush with southerners, people who live in so-called "flyover country", etc. I think we get that it's disrespectful to blame Trump's election on "Texans" when there are Texans right here on MeFi who've told us how hard they're fighting to get Democrats elected, and I don't see why the same principle shouldn't apply in a narrower regional context.
I happen to think that a 6% reduction in the GOP vote share in Cranberry from 2008 to 2016 is pretty thin gruel considering that the 2016 candidate was Donald Fucking Trump, but still, it's something, and maybe if folks weren't fighting harder there, it'd be even worse. I expect better, but I accept that it's tough out there, and that progress takes time.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:08 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
RNC to Lead Trump’s Offensive Against Comey. The sense I'm getting here is that the White House communications shop is such a mess that the RNC is taking over, with a team of around 60 staffers gearing up to attack Comey and Democrats, including a team pulling together clips of times when Democrats criticized Comey.
And since Trump will do nothing to fuck up all their efforts, this will all go fine, I am certain.
posted by Rykey at 7:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
And since Trump will do nothing to fuck up all their efforts, this will all go fine, I am certain.
posted by Rykey at 7:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
I do not have my hopes up that Comey is the man for this, but: if he were a very canny person, his prepared testimony would go right up to line of incriminating details that could be brought to light in further questioning tomorrow, leaving a big window for Trump to preemptively lie about those things before Comey is asked about them. Especially after the "I never said Israel" unprompted idiocy, that seems like a very effective strategy, and plays into Comey's image - "well, Senator, it was my judgement that I shouldn't bring this up in public testimony during an ongoing investigation, but since the President has already spoken publicly about it, here is what really happened, here is a detailed memo, and also the Vice President, Attorney General and Mr. Priebus were present for this conversation so you may wish to check with them..."
Again, I won't pin any hopes on Comey doing this... but I'd be willing to bet somebody is on round the clock phone patrol to keep Donnie off of Twitter right now just in case.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Again, I won't pin any hopes on Comey doing this... but I'd be willing to bet somebody is on round the clock phone patrol to keep Donnie off of Twitter right now just in case.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some Schmuck, Fox News:
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:20 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
James Comey has no choice.http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/06/07/gregg-jarrett-comey-must-testify-in-favor-trump-or-hell-put-himself-in-serious-legal-jeopardy.html
The former FBI Director must say President Trump did not attempt to obstruct justice. To testify otherwise will put Comey himself in serious legal jeopardy. He would, in effect, be confessing to a crime.
As I explained in a column three weeks ago, the law requires Comey to immediately inform the Department of Justice of any effort to obstruct justice by any person, even the President of the United States. Failure to do so could result in criminal charges under a statute known as “misprision of felony” (18 USC 4).
You can expect Comey to trash Trump like yesterday’s garbage when he testifies before Congress. He will disparage the man who fired him, but he cannot accuse him of obstruction without risking his own potential indictment.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:20 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
He would, in effect, be confessing to a crime.
Um, no. This schmuck needs to read the statute. Or even the wikipedia page about the statute: "This offense, however, requires active concealment of a known felony rather than merely failing to report it."
posted by janerica at 7:29 PM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
Um, no. This schmuck needs to read the statute. Or even the wikipedia page about the statute: "This offense, however, requires active concealment of a known felony rather than merely failing to report it."
posted by janerica at 7:29 PM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
That's idiotic. Comey is not there to say whether or not Trump obstructed justice; that's not his job. He had concerns about Trump's conduct, which he immediately documented and shared with other senior law enforcement officials. He then ensured the investigation would continue unimpeded. There's no basis to conclude that Comey concealed anything (on the contrary, he wrote it up and told the FBI's leadership, which is rather the opposite of concealing a crime).
It does implicate though at one of the stranger lines in Comey's statement: "We concluded it made little sense to report it to Attorney General Sessions, who we expected would likely recuse himself from involvement in Russia-related investigations. (He did so two weeks later.)" I hope there are a lot more questions about this tomorrow.
posted by zachlipton at 7:33 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
It does implicate though at one of the stranger lines in Comey's statement: "We concluded it made little sense to report it to Attorney General Sessions, who we expected would likely recuse himself from involvement in Russia-related investigations. (He did so two weeks later.)" I hope there are a lot more questions about this tomorrow.
posted by zachlipton at 7:33 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Wait so you're saying a Fox News contributor doesn't know what they're talking about? Now I've heard everything...
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
Didn't want to abuse the edit function, but I did want to add: showing a memo to some people but not others is not active concealment.
posted by janerica at 7:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by janerica at 7:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wait so you're saying a Fox News contributor doesn't know what they're talking about? Now I've heard everything...
To be fair he could also be lying about the statute rather than mistaken. It's Fox News so it could go either way.
posted by Justinian at 7:38 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
To be fair he could also be lying about the statute rather than mistaken. It's Fox News so it could go either way.
posted by Justinian at 7:38 PM on June 7, 2017 [7 favorites]
The RNC talking points are out, if you want to make bingo cards.
posted by zachlipton at 7:42 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:42 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
The former FBI Director must say President Trump did not attempt to obstruct justice. To testify otherwise will put Comey himself in serious legal jeopardy. He would, in effect, be confessing to a crime.
Oh goody, another talking point. It's about as rational as the other old chestnut that Comey somehow had an affirmative responsibility to quit his job because the President engaged in misconduct.
Yes, because if you're doing your law enforcement job ethically and responsibly, the most appropriate response if your boss's boss is an actively corrupt asshole trying to make you his minion is to vacate the position so he can install some bootlicking crony.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:44 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
Oh goody, another talking point. It's about as rational as the other old chestnut that Comey somehow had an affirmative responsibility to quit his job because the President engaged in misconduct.
Yes, because if you're doing your law enforcement job ethically and responsibly, the most appropriate response if your boss's boss is an actively corrupt asshole trying to make you his minion is to vacate the position so he can install some bootlicking crony.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:44 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
There's easily room for Comey to claim that there was no active obstruction until Comey was fired in the hopes that the investigation would go away. All the earlier discussions amount to Trump (1) hoping for the investigation to go away and (2) asking, politely, if Comey can make it go away.
He didn't ask Comey to drop the case; said he "hoped" Comey could drop it: "I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go." Technically, that's not illegal and not obstruction. It's like saying, "Hey, this friend of mine is a good fellow. I hope he's not guilty of any crimes, and that, in the case of his innocence, you won't run him through a wringer."
Obstruction didn't happen until he took action to end the investigation by firing Comey. The groundwork's all there, but the prior conversations were (arguably) just him saying what he wanted to happen, not doing anything to make it happen.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:47 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
He didn't ask Comey to drop the case; said he "hoped" Comey could drop it: "I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go." Technically, that's not illegal and not obstruction. It's like saying, "Hey, this friend of mine is a good fellow. I hope he's not guilty of any crimes, and that, in the case of his innocence, you won't run him through a wringer."
Obstruction didn't happen until he took action to end the investigation by firing Comey. The groundwork's all there, but the prior conversations were (arguably) just him saying what he wanted to happen, not doing anything to make it happen.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:47 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's all so creepy but in a predatory way that feels so oddly familiar as a woman.
particularly with reference to the references to that thing. you and I, we share an understanding. because of the implication. the fact that you have no idea what I think that thing we share even is only serves to draw us closer together. it's a thing. you and I, we understand. you let me think we had an understanding and now you're going to tell me you were playing games the whole time, just pretending? you don't want to do that. you KNEW what I meant.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:48 PM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
particularly with reference to the references to that thing. you and I, we share an understanding. because of the implication. the fact that you have no idea what I think that thing we share even is only serves to draw us closer together. it's a thing. you and I, we understand. you let me think we had an understanding and now you're going to tell me you were playing games the whole time, just pretending? you don't want to do that. you KNEW what I meant.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:48 PM on June 7, 2017 [17 favorites]
So Dan Coats allegedly got the "I need loyalty" speech too? (Sorry if this was linked or covered yesterday—didn't look like it when I searched)
WaPo: Top intelligence official told associates Trump asked him if he could intervene with Comey on FBI Russia probe
posted by Rykey at 7:49 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
WaPo: Top intelligence official told associates Trump asked him if he could intervene with Comey on FBI Russia probe
posted by Rykey at 7:49 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
WaPo: Top intelligence official told associates Trump asked him if he could intervene with Comey on FBI Russia probe
Another check mark in the "Gosh, Pompeo's being suspiciously quiet" column in that article.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:55 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Another check mark in the "Gosh, Pompeo's being suspiciously quiet" column in that article.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:55 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
particularly with reference to the references to that thing. you and I, we share an understanding. because of the implication. the fact that you have no idea what I think that thing we share even is only serves to draw us closer together.
Oh Jimmy, surely you haven't forgotten that magical evening we shared in the Green Room, where you surrendered your Honest Loyalty so sweetly.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:57 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh Jimmy, surely you haven't forgotten that magical evening we shared in the Green Room, where you surrendered your Honest Loyalty so sweetly.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:57 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think "the thing" Trump's talking about is how Comey brought up Clinton's emails right before the election, so Trump assumes Comey is already on his side, but is having doubts about that because Comey's running an investigation on Trump's buddy. How could Comey do something helpful for Trump without actually being in favor of Trump? Does not Trumpute.
posted by LionIndex at 8:02 PM on June 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by LionIndex at 8:02 PM on June 7, 2017 [22 favorites]
The sense I'm getting here is that the White House communications shop is such a mess that the RNC is taking over, with a team of around 60 staffers gearing up to attack Comey and Democrats, including a team pulling together clips of times when Democrats criticized Comey.
They have been doing this since last year, and that is why I'm fucking furious at the RNC as well as the Trump operation for this shitshow. Last year, the Trump campaign didn't have an effective resistance to us, so the RNC hired a bunch of staffers and made them answer to Trump. Now once again the Trump administration is full of fuckups, so the RNC hires a bunch of staffers and sics them in the direction of Trump enemies.
I hate them so much it physically hurts.
posted by corb at 8:04 PM on June 7, 2017 [58 favorites]
They have been doing this since last year, and that is why I'm fucking furious at the RNC as well as the Trump operation for this shitshow. Last year, the Trump campaign didn't have an effective resistance to us, so the RNC hired a bunch of staffers and made them answer to Trump. Now once again the Trump administration is full of fuckups, so the RNC hires a bunch of staffers and sics them in the direction of Trump enemies.
I hate them so much it physically hurts.
posted by corb at 8:04 PM on June 7, 2017 [58 favorites]
Re: the talking points, "so he did it anyways" -- what kind of two-bit hacks use "anyways"? Repeatedly? Is that really real?
Also it's PRETTY RICH that a lot of their points hinge on Comey fucking up the Clinton investigation -- oh, so, maybe your guy wasn't elected legitimately.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:04 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
Also it's PRETTY RICH that a lot of their points hinge on Comey fucking up the Clinton investigation -- oh, so, maybe your guy wasn't elected legitimately.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:04 PM on June 7, 2017 [9 favorites]
there's also the thing where you talk airily and generally about complex subjects you know nothing about, as if to demonstrate by the sheer casualness of your references that you are so familiar with them you cannot be questioned on the details in a way that might prove embarrassing. as anybody who has been called on in class and said some bullshit in passing about the whole pre-Socratic thing and the whole Peloponnesian War thing knows full well.
so "the Andrew McCabe thing" might refer to something dumb and particular like Comey suspects, or it might refer to Andrew McCabe being a name of an FBI man that Donald Trump was able to store in his brain for a whole evening and pull out at what seemed like an opportune time to sound knowledgeable about the FBI and who works there.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
so "the Andrew McCabe thing" might refer to something dumb and particular like Comey suspects, or it might refer to Andrew McCabe being a name of an FBI man that Donald Trump was able to store in his brain for a whole evening and pull out at what seemed like an opportune time to sound knowledgeable about the FBI and who works there.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
NYT: Trump Has Busy Day in Vortex of Middle East Relations. No fireworks, but there's a lot in here on the appalling Iran statement (the White House spent most of the day trying to write those few sentences , the contradictory messages from different parts of the government on Qatar, and tension in the NSC between a faction that wants to sanction Iran and Mattis and McMaster, who want to preserve the nuclear agreement.
posted by zachlipton at 8:12 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:12 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
There's easily room for Comey to claim that there was no active obstruction until Comey was fired in the hopes that the investigation would go away.
It really is the whole set of actions and statements, bookended at the beginning by "So, you'd like to stay on at the FBI?" and the end by "So, you are now fired from the FBI" with all the "here's what I expect you to do in order to keep your job, or else" in between.
As Jeremy Bash noted on MSNBC, Trump making those requests for loyalty and exoneration announcements and killing the investigation in the overt context (which he pointedly invoked) of Comey staying employed constitutes an implied threat, and of course the obstruction of justice statute says:
It really is the whole set of actions and statements, bookended at the beginning by "So, you'd like to stay on at the FBI?" and the end by "So, you are now fired from the FBI" with all the "here's what I expect you to do in order to keep your job, or else" in between.
As Jeremy Bash noted on MSNBC, Trump making those requests for loyalty and exoneration announcements and killing the investigation in the overt context (which he pointedly invoked) of Comey staying employed constitutes an implied threat, and of course the obstruction of justice statute says:
"Whoever . . . . corruptly or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication, influences, obstructs, or impedes, or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede, the due administration of justice, shall be (guilty of an offense)."posted by FelliniBlank at 8:21 PM on June 7, 2017 [15 favorites]
I WILL NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HOOKERS IN RUSSIA.
Arrested Development Narrator: He did.
posted by supercrayon at 8:25 PM on June 7, 2017 [73 favorites]
Arrested Development Narrator: He did.
posted by supercrayon at 8:25 PM on June 7, 2017 [73 favorites]
From Comey's testimony:
Would love to have a F&Fs transcript to see if the "cloud" wording came from them.
posted by pjenks at 8:42 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
On the morning of March 30, the President called me at the FBI. He described the Russia investigation as “a cloud” that was impairing his ability to act on behalf of the country. He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia, and had always assumed he was being recorded when in Russia. He asked what we could do to “lift the cloud.”What happened on March 30th? As was discussed in glowing terms (compared to the Nunes fiasco in the House) on Fox and Friends that morning, the Senate Intelligence Committee was to hold their first hearing on Russian meddling in the election.
Would love to have a F&Fs transcript to see if the "cloud" wording came from them.
posted by pjenks at 8:42 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Montana's Shame news: in a pre-emptive effort to butter up the judge in his upcoming court appearance, violence-against-press-normalizer Greg Gianforte wrote probably the most effusive and earnest-sounding apology letter in GOP history and made a $50,000 donation to a press freedom group. He even almost (almost) admits to being a fucking liar.
Excerpt: "Notwithstanding anyone's statements to the contrary, you did not initiate any physical contact with me, and I had no right to assault you. [...] I had no right to respond the way I did to your legitimate question about healthcare policy. You were doing your job. [...] I made a mistake and humbly ask for your forgiveness."
(Ben Jacobs, wearing Rorschach mask: Greg Gianforte will look up and shout "Forgive me!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No.")
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:50 PM on June 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
Excerpt: "Notwithstanding anyone's statements to the contrary, you did not initiate any physical contact with me, and I had no right to assault you. [...] I had no right to respond the way I did to your legitimate question about healthcare policy. You were doing your job. [...] I made a mistake and humbly ask for your forgiveness."
(Ben Jacobs, wearing Rorschach mask: Greg Gianforte will look up and shout "Forgive me!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No.")
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:50 PM on June 7, 2017 [26 favorites]
Buzzfeed published the Steele Dossier on January 10th. I'm sure blurting out on March 30th you didn't do something that hadn't been top of the news in over two months is completely innocent.
posted by chris24 at 8:53 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:53 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
One other important thing that happened today: McConnell began the process under Rule 14 to fast-track the AHCA. They don't have a bill yet in the Senate, but this bypasses the need to refer it to any committees, so it could go directly to the floor for a vote as soon as Republicans are ready.
This is bad news, of course, but this is also pretty much how it would go. Get something through the House. Get something through the Senate. Get it through the Conference Committee. Along the way make whatever deals and compromises and deadline threats it takes to get over each hurdle.
Just a reminder to get out and get active to do what it takes to push the House to the Democrats in 2018. Everything else is rearguard action.
posted by notyou at 8:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is bad news, of course, but this is also pretty much how it would go. Get something through the House. Get something through the Senate. Get it through the Conference Committee. Along the way make whatever deals and compromises and deadline threats it takes to get over each hurdle.
Just a reminder to get out and get active to do what it takes to push the House to the Democrats in 2018. Everything else is rearguard action.
posted by notyou at 8:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
ass-deep in Russians
Respectfully request as title for #NextPost, whenever that may be.
posted by petebest at 8:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
Respectfully request as title for #NextPost, whenever that may be.
posted by petebest at 8:58 PM on June 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
That fox news schmuck is nuts, since Comey informed everyone about everything, in triplicate. He did not attempt to obscure the character of the events, the events, the requests made at the events. He was careful, not careful enough when it came to Hillary, but he was careful when it came to his personal history.
posted by Oyéah at 9:02 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 9:02 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
That CNN chyron mentioned upthread is ridiculous but so is everything now. It's even got some bonus Cosby in the ticker.
posted by guiseroom at 9:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 9:11 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mike Pence was going to have an interview with PBS NewsHour but he decided to stay home and tweet about NASA seventeen times
how he longs to be far away from all this
a clean place, no special counsels, no muscular gays
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:20 PM on June 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
how he longs to be far away from all this
a clean place, no special counsels, no muscular gays
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:20 PM on June 7, 2017 [34 favorites]
If Pence loves space so much maybe we can send him there.
I have a giant project going out tomorrow so can't be online for Comey stuff at all. I'm not sure whether I'm sad or relieved about that.
posted by emjaybee at 9:25 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have a giant project going out tomorrow so can't be online for Comey stuff at all. I'm not sure whether I'm sad or relieved about that.
posted by emjaybee at 9:25 PM on June 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
That fox news schmuck is nuts, since Comey informed everyone about everything, in triplicate
The writer has assumed residence in Trumplandia, where every attempt to conceal misconduct ends with the principal actor declaring on Twitter, "I did the thing and it was awesome." From his vantage point, a series of detailed memoranda written immediately after the offending acts and distributed to FBI leadership must look like the biggest and most well-orchestrated cover-up of all time.
posted by compartment at 9:28 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
The writer has assumed residence in Trumplandia, where every attempt to conceal misconduct ends with the principal actor declaring on Twitter, "I did the thing and it was awesome." From his vantage point, a series of detailed memoranda written immediately after the offending acts and distributed to FBI leadership must look like the biggest and most well-orchestrated cover-up of all time.
posted by compartment at 9:28 PM on June 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's absolutely jarring these days to see someone in the administration doing the basic fluff stuff of just plain old vanilla presidenting like Pence on a NASA tour.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:29 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 9:29 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
I haven't been following, did he have them point a telescope at Mars so he could direct his gaze into it and strike fear into the Martians with his steely unflinching resolve?
posted by contraption at 9:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by contraption at 9:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [28 favorites]
Mike Pence was going to have an interview with PBS NewsHour but he decided to stay home and tweet about NASA seventeen times
Yeah, here he is touring MCC. I forgot that they still occasionally made people out of wood.
Also, to save on my comment count I want to warn everyone that I intend to take a very intentional nap during the hearing tomorrow. I'm thinking somewhere sunny on the beach, maybe in one of the otter hollows in the sand and grass. I might even listen to some really spacey and placid ambient music.
posted by loquacious at 9:35 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yeah, here he is touring MCC. I forgot that they still occasionally made people out of wood.
Also, to save on my comment count I want to warn everyone that I intend to take a very intentional nap during the hearing tomorrow. I'm thinking somewhere sunny on the beach, maybe in one of the otter hollows in the sand and grass. I might even listen to some really spacey and placid ambient music.
posted by loquacious at 9:35 PM on June 7, 2017 [14 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** CA-34 -- If you missed the late update, Jimmy Gomez won the special election for the former Xavier Becerra seat. Gomez plans to join the Congressional Progressive Caucus and supports single payer.
** NC leg redistricting -- Gov Cooper has called a special session of the legislature to re-draw state LD boundaries in wake of SCOTUS NC v Covington ruling. Leg has 2 weeks to re-draw before a court would take over that task. The analysis is that it would be very difficult to pull off the level of gerrymandering seen before without doing the illegal race focus. Dems only need to pick up 4 seats to make Cooper's vetoes sustainable.
** GA-06 -- 70K votes so far, pace still torrid, but definitely off from first few days. Still mixed signals on advantage for D vs R.
** VA gov - Gillespie likely has this sewn up on the GOP side, but the Dem nominee is still up in the air. The polling seems to slightly favor Northam - who got the WaPo endorsement the other day - but Perriello could still pull it off. The primaries are next Tue, Jun 13.
** Odds & ends:
** CA-34 -- If you missed the late update, Jimmy Gomez won the special election for the former Xavier Becerra seat. Gomez plans to join the Congressional Progressive Caucus and supports single payer.
** NC leg redistricting -- Gov Cooper has called a special session of the legislature to re-draw state LD boundaries in wake of SCOTUS NC v Covington ruling. Leg has 2 weeks to re-draw before a court would take over that task. The analysis is that it would be very difficult to pull off the level of gerrymandering seen before without doing the illegal race focus. Dems only need to pick up 4 seats to make Cooper's vetoes sustainable.
** GA-06 -- 70K votes so far, pace still torrid, but definitely off from first few days. Still mixed signals on advantage for D vs R.
** VA gov - Gillespie likely has this sewn up on the GOP side, but the Dem nominee is still up in the air. The polling seems to slightly favor Northam - who got the WaPo endorsement the other day - but Perriello could still pull it off. The primaries are next Tue, Jun 13.
** Odds & ends:
-- Cook Political notes that the percentage of voters IDing as GOP is dropping, which can be a leading indicator.posted by Chrysostom at 9:40 PM on June 7, 2017 [51 favorites]
-- As noted above, Trump has his worst ever Quinnipiac result, -23 favorable. In the 538 poll average, he's also at his worst, -17. Average trend appears to be losing about 1 point per month.
-- Interesting trends in HI-02, where Tulsi Gabbard's favorability is falling among Dems. This may entice a primary challenge, which would be welcome (a successful R challenge in HI is unlikely, particularly in the current environment).
-- Nate Cohn argues Dem special results are very encouraging. tl;dr: Even in a Dem wave, Dems will lose most of the "reach" GOP seats.
-- Politico: Vulnerable California Republicans struggle to sell Obamacare repeal vote
Hey Felliniblank, PlaidAdder's got you covered:
I know The Donald like I know my own mind;posted by galaxy rise at 10:07 PM on June 7, 2017 [13 favorites]
You will never meet anyone as venal or as blind–
Put rule of law aside,
Be loyal to his side,
Till this Russia thing’s been denied
He will never be satisfied.”
Nate Cohn, NYT, Why Key State Polls Were Wrong About Trump
Upshot is, polls were off by a few percentage points due to some combination of: Late deciders, undecideds, and 3rd party voter breaking disproportionately to Trump, "shy" Trump voters, too many polls not properly weighted for education level (which hadn't been much of a factor in previous presidential campaigns but suddenly came to the forefront in 2016; voters with a higher education level are much more likely to respond to polls, but voters with lower education levels strongly preferred Trump), and failure of some polls to adjust for discrepancies in poll responses by party (Republicans are less likely to respond to polls).
In general the national polls, which tend to use more accurate weighting for factors like education & partisan affiliation, were pretty close to the final voting result, maybe 2% off--which is mostly accounted for by late-breakers & undecided breaking disproportionately for Trump. But some of the state polls were off but *lot* more than that, and that is harder to explain.
posted by flug at 10:29 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Upshot is, polls were off by a few percentage points due to some combination of: Late deciders, undecideds, and 3rd party voter breaking disproportionately to Trump, "shy" Trump voters, too many polls not properly weighted for education level (which hadn't been much of a factor in previous presidential campaigns but suddenly came to the forefront in 2016; voters with a higher education level are much more likely to respond to polls, but voters with lower education levels strongly preferred Trump), and failure of some polls to adjust for discrepancies in poll responses by party (Republicans are less likely to respond to polls).
In general the national polls, which tend to use more accurate weighting for factors like education & partisan affiliation, were pretty close to the final voting result, maybe 2% off--which is mostly accounted for by late-breakers & undecided breaking disproportionately for Trump. But some of the state polls were off but *lot* more than that, and that is harder to explain.
posted by flug at 10:29 PM on June 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
Then again, with all of Trump's reported mob ties, maybe this really is ordinary NYC chit-chat for him.
When I introduce you, I'm gonna say, "This is a friend of mine." That means you're a connected guy. Now if I said instead, "this is a friend of ours" that would mean you're a made guy. A capiche?
posted by kirkaracha at 10:33 PM on June 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
no, but it wasn't a 'mistake' though so much as a violent crime. you own it not by apologizing but by going to prison.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [77 favorites]
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:34 PM on June 7, 2017 [77 favorites]
Gianforte trying to buy his way out of any punishment seems in character, and not admirable in the least.
$50k is nothing to him.
posted by Yowser at 10:37 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
$50k is nothing to him.
posted by Yowser at 10:37 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Gianforte's apology doesn't remotely come close to addressing the blatant lies and defamation in the aftermath. He allowed his spokesman, Shane Scanlon, to issue a statement calling it "aggressive behavior from a liberal journalist" and blame Jacobs for grabbing Gianforte. That deserves an apology too.
posted by zachlipton at 10:41 PM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:41 PM on June 7, 2017 [27 favorites]
no, but it wasn't a 'mistake' though so much as a violent crime. you own it not by apologizing but by going to prison.
lol, have you ever met a rich white man?
White dude: "I'm terribly sorry I shot you in the face on purpose, I'll only do it a few more times and then perhaps I shall make a donation to a local charitable body."
Society and law enforcement: "This is all fair, just give him a chance! Or several more chances! He said sorry geez."
White dude: "I'll get it right someday!" *loads gun*
posted by supercrayon at 10:47 PM on June 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
lol, have you ever met a rich white man?
White dude: "I'm terribly sorry I shot you in the face on purpose, I'll only do it a few more times and then perhaps I shall make a donation to a local charitable body."
Society and law enforcement: "This is all fair, just give him a chance! Or several more chances! He said sorry geez."
White dude: "I'll get it right someday!" *loads gun*
posted by supercrayon at 10:47 PM on June 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
Yeah, it was a fairly honest, forthright confession to the assault he committed, which happened in front of numerous witnesses and recording equipment. I don't know how much leniency that sort of show of remorse customarily buys, but it sure doesn't mean you shouldn't be prosecuted for the crime.
posted by contraption at 10:55 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by contraption at 10:55 PM on June 7, 2017 [11 favorites]
confess only that which cannot be disproved..
it's a sound strategy, especially if you are captured behind enemy lines.
posted by some loser at 11:14 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
it's a sound strategy, especially if you are captured behind enemy lines.
posted by some loser at 11:14 PM on June 7, 2017 [4 favorites]
the law requires Comey to immediately inform the Department of Justice of any effort to obstruct justice
The idiocy of this statement is so big that it's easy to miss. The FBI is part of the Justice Department. Writing a memo to himself was more than enough notice, and he told several colleagues as well.
posted by msalt at 11:36 PM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
The idiocy of this statement is so big that it's easy to miss. The FBI is part of the Justice Department. Writing a memo to himself was more than enough notice, and he told several colleagues as well.
posted by msalt at 11:36 PM on June 7, 2017 [23 favorites]
No, your thinking is too straightforward. His memos and discussions with his colleagues were against the President's wishes. Being unauthorized, they could not constitute official notice; they were effectively leaks at the highest level. So by being disloyal he was derelict in his duty; by being derelict, he was also disloyal. And then he was fired for it, which means that his testimony is fatally compromised by his grievance. Comey's the one who should be on trial here, he's practically committing perjury by existing.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:51 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:51 PM on June 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
I am actually ok with Gianforte's apology. It sounds sincere, was coherently articulated, and he almost admits to letting his spokesman lie about the encounter.
He should still go to jail for 6 months, though. And pay the $500 fine. As prescribed by Montana law.
posted by xyzzy at 12:16 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
He should still go to jail for 6 months, though. And pay the $500 fine. As prescribed by Montana law.
posted by xyzzy at 12:16 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
He should still go to jail for 6 months, though.
It is very, very important that this happen. Show them the law has teeth and no one is above it. Please.
posted by saysthis at 12:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
It is very, very important that this happen. Show them the law has teeth and no one is above it. Please.
posted by saysthis at 12:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
so much for the vaunted liberal tolerance.
/hamburger
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
/hamburger
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
If I stole a car the first place I would drive is to the police station. The only delay in my apology would be because of the huge lump in my throat I just can't swallow.
In this instance, my apology wouldn't be as polished and well thought out as this at all. It would be something like 'Oh shit! Oh shit! Are you OK? Let me help you. Are you ok? Oh shit. I'm so sorry. I just, I don't know, I'm so sorry'.
posted by adept256 at 1:16 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
In this instance, my apology wouldn't be as polished and well thought out as this at all. It would be something like 'Oh shit! Oh shit! Are you OK? Let me help you. Are you ok? Oh shit. I'm so sorry. I just, I don't know, I'm so sorry'.
posted by adept256 at 1:16 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nobody goes to jail for 6 months on a misdemeanor assault first offense with no other concurrent charges. Something like 60 days, suspended while he goes to weekly anger management for 1 year, probation for 5 years upon completion would be more reasonable.
What I expect is a fine and probation.
posted by Justinian at 1:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
What I expect is a fine and probation.
posted by Justinian at 1:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
the dude ran against Obamacare, yeah? the reporter's question was polite and completely relevant, yeah? Giganforte snapped like a bad dog in a chicken pen, yeah? And then afterwards he gots tons of donations from Americans who I guess want to see more reporters violently assaulted?
Um. Apologies don't mean shit to me in that situation. I'm glad he feels sorry; maybe he'll get the intense therapy he so obviously needs before he hurts somebody else. Therapy can work; I'm not say he's inevitably hell-bound.
But he's an elected official who went psycho on a civilian without provocation, FFS. He could eat a bucket of shit by way of apology and it still wouldn't mean he's fit to hold office.
posted by angrycat at 2:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [58 favorites]
Um. Apologies don't mean shit to me in that situation. I'm glad he feels sorry; maybe he'll get the intense therapy he so obviously needs before he hurts somebody else. Therapy can work; I'm not say he's inevitably hell-bound.
But he's an elected official who went psycho on a civilian without provocation, FFS. He could eat a bucket of shit by way of apology and it still wouldn't mean he's fit to hold office.
posted by angrycat at 2:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [58 favorites]
A viewer’s guide to the James B. Comey hearing: Who are the senators asking him questions?: There are 15 full-time members of the committee — eight Republicans and seven Democrats — and the panel is considered to be one of the last bastions of bipartisanship on Capitol Hill.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:09 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:09 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Bad dog in a chicken pen for Congress!
There was a good podcast episode of "United States of Anxiety" that talked about the American antipathy for 'intelligence.' I am too stupid to link to it, somehow... well, nothing new there tbh... but google can bring you there and it's worth the trip.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
There was a good podcast episode of "United States of Anxiety" that talked about the American antipathy for 'intelligence.' I am too stupid to link to it, somehow... well, nothing new there tbh... but google can bring you there and it's worth the trip.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
There are now no democrats seeking the mayoral position in Binghampton.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nobody goes to jail for 6 months on a misdemeanor assault first offense with no other concurrent charges. Something like 60 days, suspended while he goes to weekly anger management for 1 year, probation for 5 years upon completion would be more reasonable.
What I expect is a fine and probation.
posted by Justinian at 5:32 PM on June 8 [1 favorite +] [!]
Also a good point...but would probation mean he can't go to Washington? You're right about impartial justice, though. He should get the same punishment anybody gets.
But I very nakedly lust for some sort of poetic justice catch-22 in whatever judgment he gets that hampers his ability to be an elected official. Something visible that says, "You don't get to assault someone and concurrently hold political office."
My 5 minutes of research on the subject is inconclusive. Anybody know?
Wikipedia seems to think a lot of it depends on norms rather than laws.
posted by saysthis at 3:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
What I expect is a fine and probation.
posted by Justinian at 5:32 PM on June 8 [1 favorite +] [!]
Also a good point...but would probation mean he can't go to Washington? You're right about impartial justice, though. He should get the same punishment anybody gets.
But I very nakedly lust for some sort of poetic justice catch-22 in whatever judgment he gets that hampers his ability to be an elected official. Something visible that says, "You don't get to assault someone and concurrently hold political office."
My 5 minutes of research on the subject is inconclusive. Anybody know?
Wikipedia seems to think a lot of it depends on norms rather than laws.
posted by saysthis at 3:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Here's that podcast episode From Bklyn mentioned:
America's Allergy to Intellect — Why It Keeps Flaring Up
posted by Rykey at 4:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
America's Allergy to Intellect — Why It Keeps Flaring Up
posted by Rykey at 4:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't know how much leniency that sort of show of remorse customarily buys
But usually one saves it for the sentencing hearing.
posted by spitbull at 4:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
But usually one saves it for the sentencing hearing.
posted by spitbull at 4:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Climate decision could accelerate damage to Trump properties: The president’s Mar-a-Lago estate, the soaring apartment towers bearing his name on Miami-area beaches and his Doral golf course are all threatened by rising seas, according to projections from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the South Florida Regional Climate Change Compact
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Even if he would be up to his eyeballs in the water, in his own living room, he'd still say it's all fake newblbobloblob, or the fault of the others, whoever that might be on that day.
Or on a more constructive (?) note, this is no info of any true consequence, nor to be gleeful about. Before Mar-a-Lago gets submerged, it will have been sold; by statistical likelihood, its owner won't be among us any longer; yet the long-term effects of his rampage spree into politics will probably outlast him. Other places of the earth, inhabited by poorer people who can't just sell their lands and property and move elsewhere, will be submerged too.
posted by Namlit at 4:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Or on a more constructive (?) note, this is no info of any true consequence, nor to be gleeful about. Before Mar-a-Lago gets submerged, it will have been sold; by statistical likelihood, its owner won't be among us any longer; yet the long-term effects of his rampage spree into politics will probably outlast him. Other places of the earth, inhabited by poorer people who can't just sell their lands and property and move elsewhere, will be submerged too.
posted by Namlit at 4:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
And before Mar-a-Lago gets submerged, it'll have a decade or two as beachfront property...
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:06 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:06 AM on June 8, 2017
Comey Testimony: Trump Faces Cost of Listening to Bad Advice: Two people familiar with the matter say it was Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and chief of staff Reince Priebus who assured him the move would be hailed by Democrats still mad at how Comey handled the Hillary Clinton email probe.
The president is about to experience, yet again, the pitfalls of heeding their advice.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:10 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
The president is about to experience, yet again, the pitfalls of heeding their advice.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:10 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Good morning America, You Will Never Get Your Country Back (HuffPo commentary, Michael Starr Hopkins)
While we are waiting for Comey, the situation in the Gulf is fishy as hell and Kuwait steps up efforts to end Qatar blockade (Guardian) Trump seems to be bumbling along, blabbering about terrorism. I wouldn't trust anyone.
But this essay by Yuval Noah Harari, also in the Guardian the theatre of terror has a good point about how states should respond to terror, and following his logic, a new conflict in the Gulf isn't really a good idea…
posted by mumimor at 5:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
While we are waiting for Comey, the situation in the Gulf is fishy as hell and Kuwait steps up efforts to end Qatar blockade (Guardian) Trump seems to be bumbling along, blabbering about terrorism. I wouldn't trust anyone.
But this essay by Yuval Noah Harari, also in the Guardian the theatre of terror has a good point about how states should respond to terror, and following his logic, a new conflict in the Gulf isn't really a good idea…
posted by mumimor at 5:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Politico: 5 things to watch in Comey’s testimony on Trump and Russia
Notable: Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) uses the word 'nothingburger.'
posted by box at 5:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Notable: Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) uses the word 'nothingburger.'
posted by box at 5:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Curently on Fox and Friends, Lindsey Graham saying that Trump is not colluding with his own government, let alone the Russians.
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Graham thinks he's so cute with that little zinger, but it doesn't make sense at all.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump is not colluding with his own government, let alone the Russians.
Nice Spin there. How is that a positive thing?!?
posted by Twain Device at 5:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nice Spin there. How is that a positive thing?!?
posted by Twain Device at 5:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Politico West Wing aides fearful of directly attacking Comey
Daily Beast Are the Feds Treating the White House Like a Mob House?
For official comment, the White House has directed all questions to the office of Trump’s outside counsel, Marc Kasowitz. Kasowitz’s office, in turn, has directed inquires to Emily Thall, the law firm’s director of business development and marketing. On Tuesday, Thall declined to comment in a brief conversation with POLITICO about Comey testimony.Hah, "Let me refer you to the person on vacation all week."
By Wednesday, inquiries to Thall were met with an automatic response: She would be out of the office on vacation until next week. By Wednesday night, Kasowitz's firm had retained longtime political communications pro Mark Corallo to handle media inquiries.
Daily Beast Are the Feds Treating the White House Like a Mob House?
Four current and former law enforcement officials believe prosecutors have been treating Trump and his associates like a criminal network, and subjecting them to an array of time-tested law enforcement tricks.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [54 favorites]
One of those tricks involves floating names of potential targets of the investigation, to try and get potential co-conspirators to turn on one another. Another, called “tickling the wire,” entails strategically leaking information to try and provoke targets under surveillance into saying something dumb, or even incriminating.
“You want people to freak out, to say, ‘are they talking about me? Is this me? What do they know?’—and you want them to do this in a way that is captured,” one former FBI official said about the Russia investigation.
“Now we wait for the cover up.”
The president is about to experience, yet again, the pitfalls of heeding their advice.
Tacticus was wrong. In this administration failure has a thousand fathers.
Inquissima haec bellorum condicio est: prospera omnes sibi indicant, aduersa uni imputantur.
posted by winna at 5:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Tacticus was wrong. In this administration failure has a thousand fathers.
Inquissima haec bellorum condicio est: prospera omnes sibi indicant, aduersa uni imputantur.
posted by winna at 5:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Originally Trump's schedule was filled up with meetings and intel briefing but he must have demanded that his schedule be cleared because all of his morning meetings were canceled. Nothing for him to do except watch C-Span.
If you want pictures of the room being set up this twitter feed is your friend: @Kyle Cheney has taken pictures of all of the reserved seats (Preet Baharara will be there! Maxine Waters is seated next to Andy Biggs!) and then there is this from Cheney: Asked the interns at the front of the line waiting for #ComeyHearing what time they got here: 4:15am: "Totally worth it," one said. And they might be right. There are only 88 seats set up for the public. Lines are already many times that.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
If you want pictures of the room being set up this twitter feed is your friend: @Kyle Cheney has taken pictures of all of the reserved seats (Preet Baharara will be there! Maxine Waters is seated next to Andy Biggs!) and then there is this from Cheney: Asked the interns at the front of the line waiting for #ComeyHearing what time they got here: 4:15am: "Totally worth it," one said. And they might be right. There are only 88 seats set up for the public. Lines are already many times that.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
From the Kyle Cheney twitterfeed: JUST IN: Senior WH aide tells @PeterAlexander Trump will monitor #Comey in a WH dining room with his legal team & some of closest advisers.
Hope the room is wired for sound. Actually, of course it is!
posted by stonepharisee at 5:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hope the room is wired for sound. Actually, of course it is!
posted by stonepharisee at 5:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe Trump is really sedated and tied down somewhere and the WH will then claim that Trump demonstrated restraint during the hearing by remaining mute.
posted by angrycat at 5:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 5:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
They probably spiked his jello with Dimetapp
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump will monitor #Comey in a WH dining room with his legal team
Aw, there goes the chances of a tweet storm. If his legal team has any sense at all, they cancelled his phone's SIM last night.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Aw, there goes the chances of a tweet storm. If his legal team has any sense at all, they cancelled his phone's SIM last night.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I bet they just tuck some Trump's Little Helpers into a bite sized chunk of burnt steak
posted by ian1977 at 6:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 6:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
The probably told him the Comey testimony is actually happening tomorrow and popped Finding Nemo in the dining room DVD player to keep him occupied for 2 hours.
posted by PenDevil at 6:10 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 6:10 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
> JUST IN: Senior WH aide tells @PeterAlexander Trump will monitor #Comey in a WH dining room with his legal team & some of closest advisers.
I've been in some pretty awful meetings in my time, but man....*trails off*
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:11 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
I've been in some pretty awful meetings in my time, but man....*trails off*
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:11 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
4:15am: "Totally worth it," one said. And they might be right.
Goddammit they are right! I finally found enough peace of mind too read through Comey's comment. That is the most crazy stuff I have ever seen. Trump is acting a mobster all through.
So many details to think about, but I was stricken by the overture to that dinner, where Trump claims he wanted to invite Comey's family. WTF does he think he is doing there (Oh, yeah it says just above: he's play-acting a ganster boss).
Also, in a way it is also perverse that the (former) head of FBI is this good at participating in the spectacle. But I appreciate it right now.
posted by mumimor at 6:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Goddammit they are right! I finally found enough peace of mind too read through Comey's comment. That is the most crazy stuff I have ever seen. Trump is acting a mobster all through.
So many details to think about, but I was stricken by the overture to that dinner, where Trump claims he wanted to invite Comey's family. WTF does he think he is doing there (Oh, yeah it says just above: he's play-acting a ganster boss).
Also, in a way it is also perverse that the (former) head of FBI is this good at participating in the spectacle. But I appreciate it right now.
posted by mumimor at 6:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Whitehouse dining room with team of lawyers and advisers CLEARLY screams "vindicated," right? Right? I mean, if I felt vindicated I'd surround myself with attorneys too!
posted by lydhre at 6:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 6:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
I also hope this New-Yorker-room-talk "Eyy, treason, fuhgeddaboutit" stuff gets smashed quick
this could be the worst thing for New York since Pace Picante sauce
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
this could be the worst thing for New York since Pace Picante sauce
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
this could be the worst thing for New York since Pace Picante sauce
I'm not saying we should get a rope, but ...
posted by uncleozzy at 6:19 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm not saying we should get a rope, but ...
posted by uncleozzy at 6:19 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you want pictures of the room being set up
In a first for an Internet comment, I'd like to link to a YouTube video of a Monty Python sketch which is actually quite apropos. "Novel Writing". (Only US and AU playable I'm afraid, I couldn't find a global version.)
Hello and welcome to Dorchester where a very good crowd has turned out to watch local boy Thomas Hardy write his new novel 'The Return of the Native' on this very pleasant July morning. This will be his eleventh novel and the fifth of the very popular Wessex novels. . .
And here he comes! Here comes Hardy walking out toward his desk, he looks confident, he looks relaxed very much the man in form as he acknowledges this very good natured Bank Holiday crowd. And the crowd goes quiet now as Hardy settles himself down at the desk, body straight shoulders relaxed, pen held lightly but firmly in the right hand, he dips the pen . . . in the ink and he's off!
posted by petebest at 6:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
In a first for an Internet comment, I'd like to link to a YouTube video of a Monty Python sketch which is actually quite apropos. "Novel Writing". (Only US and AU playable I'm afraid, I couldn't find a global version.)
Hello and welcome to Dorchester where a very good crowd has turned out to watch local boy Thomas Hardy write his new novel 'The Return of the Native' on this very pleasant July morning. This will be his eleventh novel and the fifth of the very popular Wessex novels. . .
And here he comes! Here comes Hardy walking out toward his desk, he looks confident, he looks relaxed very much the man in form as he acknowledges this very good natured Bank Holiday crowd. And the crowd goes quiet now as Hardy settles himself down at the desk, body straight shoulders relaxed, pen held lightly but firmly in the right hand, he dips the pen . . . in the ink and he's off!
posted by petebest at 6:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Sorry if this has been asked and answered already but - time and stream for Comey this AM?
posted by lazaruslong at 6:24 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by lazaruslong at 6:24 AM on June 8, 2017
petebest, I can view it just fine here in the Netherlands.
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:29 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:29 AM on June 8, 2017
I'm picturing the mods right now in a training montage to the soundtrack of Eye of the Tiger.
posted by diogenes at 6:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 6:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [57 favorites]
Don't forget that we have Chat to drop all your one-liners into. :-D
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Someone made a movie trailer for today.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Additional Comey testimony viewing options from Gizmodo. Presumably US centric.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:34 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:34 AM on June 8, 2017
A way I never even thought a US senate hearing would play out in my house.
I wander into parents part of the house. Mom is still in bed reading. I jokingly say "Mom what are you still doing in bed Comey is on TV in half an hour?" Mom suddenly starts moving pretty quick for her 'Oh, oh, oh my gosh, that's right. I need to get up. Oh, oh, oh where are my slippers".
posted by Jalliah at 6:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [67 favorites]
I wander into parents part of the house. Mom is still in bed reading. I jokingly say "Mom what are you still doing in bed Comey is on TV in half an hour?" Mom suddenly starts moving pretty quick for her 'Oh, oh, oh my gosh, that's right. I need to get up. Oh, oh, oh where are my slippers".
posted by Jalliah at 6:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [67 favorites]
For those of us in Australia, it looks like ABC News (24) is covering this live. I won't be able to stay up for it, but maybe some of you can. Looking forward to catching up in the morning.
posted by michswiss at 6:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by michswiss at 6:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
So all PBS affiliates(?) are going to air it on TV as well? Or just stream? Cuz my PBS has Curious George on right now.
posted by ian1977 at 6:39 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by ian1977 at 6:39 AM on June 8, 2017
MSNBC says McCain is there today as well, and will be allowed to question Comey, as a courtesy.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Recommending LawFare's Liveblog for running commentary. Seconding MeFi Chat to keep this thread meaningful.
posted by klarck at 6:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by klarck at 6:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, it's nice that McCain will finally get a chance to ask some of these questions the affair has raised for him. Perhaps doing so will alleviate his concerns.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
MSNBC says McCain is there today as well, and will be allowed to question Comey, as a courtesy.
If we keep extending McCain courtesies we're gonna run out pretty soon, just as we ran out of benefits of the doubt.
posted by lydhre at 6:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
If we keep extending McCain courtesies we're gonna run out pretty soon, just as we ran out of benefits of the doubt.
posted by lydhre at 6:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Via the Guardian's live text blog, a tweet containing RNC talking points for today.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:43 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:43 AM on June 8, 2017
If we keep extending McCain courtesies we're gonna run out pretty soon, just as we ran out of benefits of the doubt.
And how we ran out of evens.
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
And how we ran out of evens.
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
John McCain is the GOP's resident concern troll.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
USA Today: James Comey is no showboat: Joshua Campbell is a special agent with the FBI who served as special assistant to former FBI director James Comey. The opinions expressed here are his own and do not represent those of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:46 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:46 AM on June 8, 2017
The Time Magazine live feed is the best of the youtube options at the moment.
So very odd how paper news media's live video doesn't have a bunch of idiot talking head commentators and advertisements plastered all over it, but TV media like NBC and CBS does. So very odd. </sarcasm>
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
So very odd how paper news media's live video doesn't have a bunch of idiot talking head commentators and advertisements plastered all over it, but TV media like NBC and CBS does. So very odd. </sarcasm>
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
McCain is sort of a reverse concern troll: he expresses concerns about things that are really there in order to get people to stop talking about them.
posted by Artw at 6:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [36 favorites]
I, too, like to take a relaxing weekday morning to sit with my lawyers and have a late breakfast-and-chitchat. Maybe see what's on CSPAN. Just another thing we innocent folks like to do. Lah te dah.
posted by Emmy Rae at 6:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Emmy Rae at 6:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
MSNBC says McCain is there today as well, and will be allowed to question Comey, as a courtesy.
McCain is a member ex officio of the Intel Committee in his capacity as Chair of the Armed Services Committee (as are the ranking minority member of the ASC and the Majority and Minority Leaders of the Senate).
posted by Etrigan at 6:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
McCain is a member ex officio of the Intel Committee in his capacity as Chair of the Armed Services Committee (as are the ranking minority member of the ASC and the Majority and Minority Leaders of the Senate).
posted by Etrigan at 6:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I, too, like to take a relaxing weekday morning to sit with my lawyers and have a late breakfast-and-chitchat. Maybe see what's on CSPAN. Just another thing we innocent folks like to do. Lah te dah.
I'm sure this grows directly out of the deep, thoughtful interest in preserving ethical and proper relations between the Justice Department and others that President Trump has had ever since Loretta Lynch met with Bill Clinton.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm sure this grows directly out of the deep, thoughtful interest in preserving ethical and proper relations between the Justice Department and others that President Trump has had ever since Loretta Lynch met with Bill Clinton.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
One bit of Comey's written testimony I liked was his hedge of "I could be wrong" when speculating on the narrow motivation of the Flynn ask. Giving benefit of doubt to President while allowing something larger and more nefarious to also be plausible.
I also loved the "Sessions expected to recuse" ... this is leading the committee like a witness.
posted by phoque at 7:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I also loved the "Sessions expected to recuse" ... this is leading the committee like a witness.
posted by phoque at 7:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Guardian, as always, has a liveblog running.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:02 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:02 AM on June 8, 2017
Well, it's nice that McCain will finally get a chance to ask some of these questions the affair has raised for him. Perhaps doing so will alleviate his concerns.
Not to mention his brow's furrows.
posted by duffell at 7:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not to mention his brow's furrows.
posted by duffell at 7:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Still kinda amazed that the best Republicans can come up with is "See, he wasn't obstructing an investigation into himself, he was just obstructing an investigation into his campaign and his NSA."
posted by chris24 at 7:03 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by chris24 at 7:03 AM on June 8, 2017
MY BODY IS READY
posted by numaner at 7:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by numaner at 7:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm pretty sure James Comey is currently demonstrating his "I didn't move, speak, or change my facial expression in any way during the awkward silence that followed. We simply looked at each other in silence" face for the assembled photographers.
posted by zachlipton at 7:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
MY BODY IS READY
Prepare your Priebus
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:05 AM on June 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
Prepare your Priebus
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:05 AM on June 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
woohoo already got "closed session" on the bingo
posted by numaner at 7:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by numaner at 7:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
"James and Donald in the Green Room. James and Donald over dinner." is now Darmok for an inappropriate request that is rejected in the most circumspect way possible.
posted by duffell at 7:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by duffell at 7:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
Burr: "just like we need to hear the president's version of events" ..... oh yeah, put that guy on the stand. Can't wait.
posted by Dashy at 7:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 7:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Everyone, we want your goofy one-liner jokes over in chat!
posted by biogeo at 7:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 7:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Mod note: Quick reminder about things that help threads not grow enormously and distractingly quickly when A Political Thing Is Happening That A Lot Of Us Are Watching:
- avoid contextless reaction one-liners to stuff happening on screen
- account for the other folks also typing and try not to duplicate too much
- less frequent, less rushed summary/digest comments capturing a few things together generally beats peppering the thread with three or four shorter comments ASAP
Now everybody be safe and have fun and enjoy, implausible though this would have been to you at some point in the past, your several hours of C-SPAN.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [81 favorites]
- avoid contextless reaction one-liners to stuff happening on screen
- account for the other folks also typing and try not to duplicate too much
- less frequent, less rushed summary/digest comments capturing a few things together generally beats peppering the thread with three or four shorter comments ASAP
Now everybody be safe and have fun and enjoy, implausible though this would have been to you at some point in the past, your several hours of C-SPAN.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [81 favorites]
woohoo already got "closed session" on the bingo
also: Russia, Her Emails, and Collusion.
posted by progosk at 7:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
also: Russia, Her Emails, and Collusion.
posted by progosk at 7:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Still kinda amazed that the best Republicans can come up with is "See, he wasn't obstructing an investigation into himself, he was just obstructing an investigation into his campaign and his NSA."
I'm kind of amazed that "see! it was light treason by the campaign!" is a hill they're possibly willing to die on.
posted by Talez at 7:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm kind of amazed that "see! it was light treason by the campaign!" is a hill they're possibly willing to die on.
posted by Talez at 7:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was pessimistic yesterday but now I'm somewhat hopeful. Maybe, just maybe, the early release of Comey's statement was to bait Team Trump into saying things like "vindicated!" and giving Comey credibility. Now he has Trump's playbook to use against him, and he has that Trump-seal-of-credibility when he systematically disembowels the president and his entire staff.
More likely it'll be Hillary 2.0, but I can hope.
posted by martin q blank at 7:13 AM on June 8, 2017
More likely it'll be Hillary 2.0, but I can hope.
posted by martin q blank at 7:13 AM on June 8, 2017
Taking a break from the UK election, as we're at the stage where the news is focusing on the best-looking dogs tied up outside polling stations. BBC Parliament channel (131 on my setup) is showing the committee live.
Warner: "We are not here to relitigate the election".
{All MetaFilter mods vigorously nod, yell "yeah, tell me about it"}
posted by Wordshore at 7:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
Warner: "We are not here to relitigate the election".
{All MetaFilter mods vigorously nod, yell "yeah, tell me about it"}
posted by Wordshore at 7:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
The Washington Post's YouTube channel has good audio and splitscreen
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
USA Today: James Comey is no showboat:
oh please. I enjoy his tall hubris frequently but let us be honest, he is based on the book by Edna Ferber with music by Jerome Kern and lyrics by Oscar Hammerstein.
did I use that joke already, if so, sorry
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
Kind of interesting how Burr and Warner are taking two completely different angles on the Russia connection; i.e., Burr hedging his bets, using "alleged" a lot, while Warner speaking more definitively. Probably a sign of things to come from their respective parties.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Onion A.V. Club is liveblogging
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
So, the reason Comey published his opening statement yesterday is so he didn't have to actually use it as his opening statement :D
But does that mean it was under oath or not?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
But does that mean it was under oath or not?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ok I take it back, this is not a nothingburger. Comey did not come to play. He just said Trump's administration defamed the FBI through "lies." If you're not tuned in, maybe tune in.
posted by prefpara at 7:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [65 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 7:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [65 favorites]
So Comey's statement sounds to me like he is speaking out because he is mad he and the FBI was personally attacked.
posted by winna at 7:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Prepare your Priebus
Everyone has a Preibus in their home. First they take the Spicer and and they smooth it out with a bunch of Huckabee Sanders. The Huckabee Sanders is then repurposed for later batches. They take the Spicer and they push it through the Mulvaney where the Flynn is rubbed against it. It's important that the Flynn is rubbed, because the Flynn has all the Flynn juice. Then, a Bannon shows up, and he rubs it and spits on it. They cut the Flynn. There's several Kushners in the way. The Mnuchin rub against the DeVos, and the Conway, and Mulvaney are shaved away. That leaves you with a regular old Priebus.
posted by Talez at 7:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
Everyone has a Preibus in their home. First they take the Spicer and and they smooth it out with a bunch of Huckabee Sanders. The Huckabee Sanders is then repurposed for later batches. They take the Spicer and they push it through the Mulvaney where the Flynn is rubbed against it. It's important that the Flynn is rubbed, because the Flynn has all the Flynn juice. Then, a Bannon shows up, and he rubs it and spits on it. They cut the Flynn. There's several Kushners in the way. The Mnuchin rub against the DeVos, and the Conway, and Mulvaney are shaved away. That leaves you with a regular old Priebus.
posted by Talez at 7:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
10:21, Comey calls Trump a liar for the first time. Mark it down for history.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [50 favorites]
Comey: "Those were lies, plain and simple" in regards to toddler's reasons for firing him.
posted by Dashy at 7:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 7:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Comey sounds really pissed, so far as Comey can be pissed. This might be really good.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sen. Burr gave a fairly anodyne statement to open, but highlighted bipartisanship in the approach of the Senate Committee of Intelligence. Much like yesterday, Sen. Warner is giving an extremely direct, effective and urgent summary of the contacts between Trump officials (Sessions, Kushner, Manafort, etc) and Russian officials. Warner also tore into the Directors for yesterday failing to put the allegations of pressure to rest.
After Director Comey was sworn in, he cracked a smile for the first time. Each Senator also gets 7 minutes to question, as opposed to the 5 from yesterday. Comey's now has the floor and won't be repeating the statement he released. Burr and Warner will be questioning for 12 minutes. He's currently explaining how he had many positive conversations about his job.
Comey is currently noted that he founded out about being fired from television and how he is confused about the shifting the rationales for his firing--including noting that Trump announced he fired Comey to relieve pressure on the Russia investigation. He actually said that he feels the Administration has defamed him and the FBI in the statements about his firing. Comey is PISSED.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
After Director Comey was sworn in, he cracked a smile for the first time. Each Senator also gets 7 minutes to question, as opposed to the 5 from yesterday. Comey's now has the floor and won't be repeating the statement he released. Burr and Warner will be questioning for 12 minutes. He's currently explaining how he had many positive conversations about his job.
Comey is currently noted that he founded out about being fired from television and how he is confused about the shifting the rationales for his firing--including noting that Trump announced he fired Comey to relieve pressure on the Russia investigation. He actually said that he feels the Administration has defamed him and the FBI in the statements about his firing. Comey is PISSED.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
This seems like smart strategy by Comey. The written statement yesterday was the shot, describing increasingly concerning meetings, and the chaser is him talking about being fired and the fact that Trump had "shifting explanations" and "lies" and ran around talking about how firing Comey helped relieve pressure on him because of the Russia investigation. And he gets to talk about how wonderful the FBI is.
Comey's written statement shows a pattern of escalating inappropriate behavior. Going beyond that to the firing is the part that leaves no doubt this was intended to obstruct an investigation. And he left that shoe hanging so he could drop it himself this morning.
posted by zachlipton at 7:25 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Comey's written statement shows a pattern of escalating inappropriate behavior. Going beyond that to the firing is the part that leaves no doubt this was intended to obstruct an investigation. And he left that shoe hanging so he could drop it himself this morning.
posted by zachlipton at 7:25 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
"In a way, each of us has an Priebus to face. For some, shyness might be their Priebus. For others, a lack of education might be their Priebus. For us, Priebus is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us. But as sure as my name is Lucky Day, the people of Santa Poco can conquer their own personal Priebus, who also happens to be *the actual* Priebus!"
posted by drezdn at 7:25 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 7:25 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Comey just said he can't talk about whether or not the Steele dossier is correct about criminal issues in an open forum.
posted by winna at 7:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [38 favorites]
Comey is speaking with great clarity. I wonder if the President has considered him for FBI Director?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [54 favorites]
Comey just said he can't talk about whether or not the Steele dossier is correct about criminal issues in an open forum.
Let's hope that means the FBI is laser focused on confirming the Rosfnet sale.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Let's hope that means the FBI is laser focused on confirming the Rosfnet sale.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Burr's questioning is setting up how the Russians interfered with the election. Comey has no doubt that there was Russian interference. He is denying that any administration officials asked him to quash the entire Russia investigation. Comey feels that Flynn was in legal jeopardy and confirmed that there was an active investigation in Flynn's statements about Russia and the statements themselves. Comey noted that there may be criminal activity turned up by the investigation that are not directly tied to the Russian interference.
Comey notes that he cannot confirm whether any criminal activity in the Steeler Dossier has been confirmed because it goes into the details of the intel. Burr questioned about what qualifies as a foreign government trying to recruit agencies. Comey noted a number things like covert contacts and coersion [EC note: Rather like Kushner and Flynn's contact].
Burr's questions so far have seemed pretty good. Comey comes across as very credible and knowledgeable. I'm missing a lot because this is all coming so fast.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Comey notes that he cannot confirm whether any criminal activity in the Steeler Dossier has been confirmed because it goes into the details of the intel. Burr questioned about what qualifies as a foreign government trying to recruit agencies. Comey noted a number things like covert contacts and coersion [EC note: Rather like Kushner and Flynn's contact].
Burr's questions so far have seemed pretty good. Comey comes across as very credible and knowledgeable. I'm missing a lot because this is all coming so fast.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Burr is actively muddying the waters. "Didn't the Russians hack a lot of people? How did Obama respond if at all? Did you ever get any of the hardware?" Pretty leading questions here.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
In regards to Russian investigation: "The AG directed me to call it a 'matter' not an 'investigation, which confused me". Nicely done.
posted by Dashy at 7:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 7:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
"In my lifetime, I have been asked to pledge my loyalty often.... to my spouse, my country, my employers, my church, my godchildren, just to name a few....
Never considered that this could be Obstruction of Justice..... WOW...where are we going????"
Did you explain how stupid that is to her?
posted by asteria at 7:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Never considered that this could be Obstruction of Justice..... WOW...where are we going????"
Did you explain how stupid that is to her?
posted by asteria at 7:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think that was in regards to Clinton's emails, not the Russian investigation.
posted by amarynth at 7:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by amarynth at 7:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Comey just said he was concerned the president would lie about what was said and that was why he documented it immediately.
posted by winna at 7:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
He just said he took notes about his meetings with Trump because he suspected Trump would lie about their interactions.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Comey, asked why he documented meetings: "There was concern that he (toddler) might lie about the content of our meetings". Straight-up.
posted by Dashy at 7:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 7:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Comey says the FBI knew of Russian infiltration in 2015. So why did the NYT report this story clearing Trump 9 days before the election?
The NYTs coverage of 2016 is quickly surpassing the disgrace of their coverage of the Iraq war.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
The NYTs coverage of 2016 is quickly surpassing the disgrace of their coverage of the Iraq war.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
Wow, Comey says Bill Clinton's phenomenally stupid tarmac meeting with Loretta Lynch is what prompted him to speak out about the HRC probe. Just, wow.
I hate Comey for the whole but her emails bullshit as much as the next person but in this case it's entirely reasonable. I mean from his perspective the AG is in bed (metaphorically) with a presidential candidate. We wouldn't expect anything less if the shoe was on the other foot.
posted by Talez at 7:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
I hate Comey for the whole but her emails bullshit as much as the next person but in this case it's entirely reasonable. I mean from his perspective the AG is in bed (metaphorically) with a presidential candidate. We wouldn't expect anything less if the shoe was on the other foot.
posted by Talez at 7:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
fuck's SAKE Mark Warner, "in your words afraid that he might blah blah put out things that weren't truthful " NO HIS WORDS WERE "LIE," YOU CAN SAY LIE NOW THAT THE BRAVE TALL MAN HAS DONE IT FOR YOU. "I was honestly concerned that he might lie" is what he said. jesus mark warner.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
"The committee has requested the Comey memos."
That's pretty big, isn't it? Won't they be part of the official record now?
posted by wenestvedt at 7:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's pretty big, isn't it? Won't they be part of the official record now?
posted by wenestvedt at 7:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Brian Beutler: Comey must know that news outlets are reluctant to use the word “lie” themselves. So he’s doing it for them.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [79 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 7:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [79 favorites]
Comey is describing how he already talked to Trump about staying on as Director three times, so when Trump brought up his job again at dinner: "What's going on here is he's looking to get something in exchange for granting my request to stay in the job."
It's an important point in the context of obstruction. It's an argument that Trump dangled Comey's job to influence the FBI's work.
posted by zachlipton at 7:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
It's an important point in the context of obstruction. It's an argument that Trump dangled Comey's job to influence the FBI's work.
posted by zachlipton at 7:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
Comey says that he believes that Jared and Sessions lingered because the knew that something was wrong and they shouldn't have been leaving the February 14th meeting. He's really going all in on "Trump is a fucked up liar" and I am living for it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [62 favorites]
Tbh I don't know where to start. If anyone has concise talking points, memail me because it's making my heart hurt.
I'd just repeat we're not a monarchy, you swear oaths to the Constitution not the president.
Also, find a president she hates (like, idk Obama or Clinton maybe) and say "would you think it okay if they asked people who are supposed to be impartial and put the country first to put them first instead?"
posted by asteria at 7:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
I'd just repeat we're not a monarchy, you swear oaths to the Constitution not the president.
Also, find a president she hates (like, idk Obama or Clinton maybe) and say "would you think it okay if they asked people who are supposed to be impartial and put the country first to put them first instead?"
posted by asteria at 7:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Comey specifically stated that he wrote the memos in a way that was unclassifiable specifically so they could be public.
posted by winna at 7:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [49 favorites]
Warner's up and I expect he's going to get much rougher than Burr, in some respect. Warner notes that the vast majority of FBI folks have confidence in Comey's leadership.
Now he's moved on to the January 6th meeting. Comey felt compelled to document the meeting--Warner wants to know what factors contributed to that decision. Comey said the circumstance, the subject matter, and the person involved. Comey says that he was very concerned that Trump would lie about their meetings, a concern he had not felt previously in previous administrations. Comey documented most if not all of the 9 meetings he had alone with Trump. He was concerned that he would need it later. Trump is the only executive he's felt he needed to document--neither of the 2 meetings he had with Obama and 1 with Bush needed documentation in the same way. Note that he only meet with Obama twice in 3 years as opposed to 9 times in 4 months with Trump.
Comey noted that they didn't have an open Counter-Intel into Trump personally--one person felt that Trump's conduct was necessarily under investigation because his campaign was. The FBI revisited whether Trump was under investigation post-Jan 6th.
Now they are on to the loyalty question. Comey's impression was that Trump believed since Comey was staying, that the dinner would be useful to get a confirmation of personal loyalty to him. He noted that three times before the dinner, they had talked about his job. He felt extremely uncomfortable because the FBI Director is supposed to be independent.
Now we're onto Sessions leaving Comey with Trump. Comey felt he needed to remember every word said. He noted that Sessions and Kushner seemed to want to hang around and that they seemed to know better. Comey wrote his memo in an unclassified way, so the memo could be more easily shared within the FBI.
Comey noted that Trump never asked questions about any of the other tens of thousands of active FBI investigations in response to Warner--except for one instance where Trump asked about an unrelated classified investigation.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
Now he's moved on to the January 6th meeting. Comey felt compelled to document the meeting--Warner wants to know what factors contributed to that decision. Comey said the circumstance, the subject matter, and the person involved. Comey says that he was very concerned that Trump would lie about their meetings, a concern he had not felt previously in previous administrations. Comey documented most if not all of the 9 meetings he had alone with Trump. He was concerned that he would need it later. Trump is the only executive he's felt he needed to document--neither of the 2 meetings he had with Obama and 1 with Bush needed documentation in the same way. Note that he only meet with Obama twice in 3 years as opposed to 9 times in 4 months with Trump.
Comey noted that they didn't have an open Counter-Intel into Trump personally--one person felt that Trump's conduct was necessarily under investigation because his campaign was. The FBI revisited whether Trump was under investigation post-Jan 6th.
Now they are on to the loyalty question. Comey's impression was that Trump believed since Comey was staying, that the dinner would be useful to get a confirmation of personal loyalty to him. He noted that three times before the dinner, they had talked about his job. He felt extremely uncomfortable because the FBI Director is supposed to be independent.
Now we're onto Sessions leaving Comey with Trump. Comey felt he needed to remember every word said. He noted that Sessions and Kushner seemed to want to hang around and that they seemed to know better. Comey wrote his memo in an unclassified way, so the memo could be more easily shared within the FBI.
Comey noted that Trump never asked questions about any of the other tens of thousands of active FBI investigations in response to Warner--except for one instance where Trump asked about an unrelated classified investigation.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
"The statue of justice is blindfolded because she's not supposed to be peeking to see if her patron is pleased."
I get the feeling this line is going to be historic.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [142 favorites]
I get the feeling this line is going to be historic.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [142 favorites]
I was biking to the bus stop with one ear bud in just now, and when I went past the wrought iron shop that's usually blaring AM talk radio I heard that they were listening to the hearing. I know hope is dead and all but that felt kinda hopeful.
posted by contraption at 7:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by contraption at 7:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
The NBC livestream has captioning, although it lags behind a little bit.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:50 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by Fleebnork at 7:50 AM on June 8, 2017
I really hope Comey is setting up Sessions and Kushner by portraying them as uncomfortable because they knew what was going to happen, but went ahead and played along with Trump rather than doing the right thing.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 7:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
The summer statement after the tarmac meeting was reasonable.
The "October surprise" statement was ... not.
posted by Dashy at 7:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
The "October surprise" statement was ... not.
posted by Dashy at 7:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
For clarity and completeness: "The President of the United States was not under investigation." "That's correct."
Is there a livestream that will have captioning?
The C-SPAN feed has captions.
posted by zachlipton at 7:51 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is there a livestream that will have captioning?
The C-SPAN feed has captions.
posted by zachlipton at 7:51 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Did you explain how stupid that is to her?
Tbh I don't know where to start.
"Aside from the fact that the president has no authority to require such an oath from the Director of the FBI, you would never want the Director of the FBI to be loyal to any president in the same way that private citizens are to our spouses, country, employers, churches, or godchildren. That would compromise the FBI's ability to serve the American people objectively and free from conflicts of interest—which would in turn undermine the system of checks and balances essential to our government."
Maybe that's not terribly concise, but it seems straightforward. Not that this will convince anybody crazy enough to side with Trump in matters of credibility and competence.
posted by Rykey at 7:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Tbh I don't know where to start.
"Aside from the fact that the president has no authority to require such an oath from the Director of the FBI, you would never want the Director of the FBI to be loyal to any president in the same way that private citizens are to our spouses, country, employers, churches, or godchildren. That would compromise the FBI's ability to serve the American people objectively and free from conflicts of interest—which would in turn undermine the system of checks and balances essential to our government."
Maybe that's not terribly concise, but it seems straightforward. Not that this will convince anybody crazy enough to side with Trump in matters of credibility and competence.
posted by Rykey at 7:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
"He only said I HOPE you can let this go. He didn't ORDER you to let it go. It's not obstruction!"
Holy shit is this what they're going with?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [51 favorites]
Holy shit is this what they're going with?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [51 favorites]
It is ridiculous to quibble over whether or not it is a direct order when the president of the united freaking states says he hopes you do a thing.
Comey quite properly points that out.
posted by winna at 7:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
Comey quite properly points that out.
posted by winna at 7:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
@agregoli, the PBS youtube stream has some working captions. https://youtu.be/yry9PV3DNfw
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 7:54 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 7:54 AM on June 8, 2017
"He only said I HOPE you can let this go. He didn't ORDER you to let it go. It's not obstruction!"
Who's saying this?
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:54 AM on June 8, 2017
Who's saying this?
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:54 AM on June 8, 2017
Senator Risch (R-ID) currently arguing that the President telling the FBI Director, purposefully in private, that "he hopes" the FBI drops an investigation, before subsequently firing him while complaining about that investigation, is not the same as an order to drop the investigation. It's just a "hope". And no-one has ever been prosecuted for obstruction of justice on the basis of "hoping" something.
methinks most people who might have been prosecuted did not have the ability to fire the FBI director
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
methinks most people who might have been prosecuted did not have the ability to fire the FBI director
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
Risch (R-ID) thinks that Comey is a first class legal writer. However, Risch is carrying water for the administration. Comey noted that the "I hope..." statement was an indirect command, but Risch is trying downplay the seriousness of Trump's action. It was pathetic to watch because he was deliberately ignoring the pragmatics of how bosses communicate with subordinates--you don't have to say "I order you to..." in order to give someone what is generally understood to be a command.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
That Risch jab was absolutely ridiculous. And he knew it. His expression after being told off by Comey was very telling. Maybe he was pushed to doing that?
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
We the people are Comey's employer, as we are Trump's.
posted by LarsC at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by LarsC at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
With regard to "I hope you can let this go," Comey brings up an important point: when the President of the United States, who you work for, tells you one-on-one that he "hopes" something will happen, you kind of have to see that as an instruction.
I find Sen. Burr's opening statement and line of questioning really significant. Sen. Risch and likely the other Republicans are going to try to poke holes in Comey's story and take shots at his credibility . Burr is, I believe, increasingly legitimately concerned here, and while I don't trust him to do much about it, he's not acting like he's on team RNC Talking Points.
posted by zachlipton at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
I find Sen. Burr's opening statement and line of questioning really significant. Sen. Risch and likely the other Republicans are going to try to poke holes in Comey's story and take shots at his credibility . Burr is, I believe, increasingly legitimately concerned here, and while I don't trust him to do much about it, he's not acting like he's on team RNC Talking Points.
posted by zachlipton at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Comey said he "took it as a direction" from the President to drop the investigation. Fuck you, Senator Risch.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Washington Post YouTube stream has captioning.
posted by vickyverky at 7:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by vickyverky at 7:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fat Tony: I hope nothing bad happens to your store, that would be a shame.
Jim Risch: Nobody ever got extorted by hope.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [70 favorites]
Jim Risch: Nobody ever got extorted by hope.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [70 favorites]
He made him a hopeful request that, it turns out, he couldn't refuse.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
'he fired me because of the russia investigation, if you believe what he said. of course, he could have been lying, but I'm just a simple FBI man who doesn't understand anything but plain speaking, so of course I have to believe that the president told the truth when he says he fired me for doing my job. I mean, unless he's a habitual liar, but that's not for me to say.'
paraphrased, but real. and beautiful
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [56 favorites]
paraphrased, but real. and beautiful
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [56 favorites]
"Lordy, I hope there are tapes."
Me too, Jim. Me too.
posted by joedan at 7:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
Me too, Jim. Me too.
posted by joedan at 7:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
"I hope you can let this go" is practically "I hope nothing bad happens to you restaurant/business if you don't pay the protection money."
posted by drezdn at 7:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 7:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
"I've seen the tweet about tapes. Lordy, I hope there are tapes."
heh.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
heh.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Man, if I had a nickel for every time I had a superior officer tell me "I hope X happens" and I spent the entire fucking night at my desk making sure X was on his desk by 8:59 a.m., I would have a stack of nickels taller than James Comey.
posted by Etrigan at 7:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [100 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 7:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [100 favorites]
I must not know how to activate captioning or something but thanks!
posted by agregoli at 7:58 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by agregoli at 7:58 AM on June 8, 2017
Don't forget that when the request to drop the Flynn investigation was made, Trump first asked Attorney General Sessions, nominally Comey's boss, to leave the room. Let's dispense with the notion the President didn't know what he was doing. The President knew exactly what he was doing.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
Good on Feinstein for heading off the "Why didn't you DO something in the moment, Director?" angle herself, rather than letting one of the dickbags on the committee spin it their way first.
posted by Rykey at 7:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 7:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I like how Comey (in response to Feinstein) is admitting to weakness.
"Maybe if I'd have been stronger."
"It was a cowardly way of getting off the phone."
It actually gives his account more credibility. Nobody's perfect, and this circumstance is so singular and inappropriate that he's unsure how to react.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [74 favorites]
"Maybe if I'd have been stronger."
"It was a cowardly way of getting off the phone."
It actually gives his account more credibility. Nobody's perfect, and this circumstance is so singular and inappropriate that he's unsure how to react.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [74 favorites]
I have no sympathy for Comey but lord I have empathy for him saying it was a cowardly thing to do when he told the president he would see what he could do about lifting the cloud from his administration on the Russian investigation.
I hope that I could have as much ability to do calm self-reflection on a major ethical crisis in front of the entire world.
posted by winna at 8:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
I hope that I could have as much ability to do calm self-reflection on a major ethical crisis in front of the entire world.
posted by winna at 8:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
I think this is the New York Times article they were talking about, based what we discussed during the House Hearing.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
It confirms my feeling that Comey was woefully over his head when it came to the actual gameplaying aspects of this particular game of thrones.
posted by asteria at 8:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by asteria at 8:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Predicting the Fox News headline will be "Trump not under investigation"
posted by drezdn at 8:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 8:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Feinstein is up--Comey believes that the Russia investigation was central to his firing because he saw "the President say so". Comey confirms that he understood Trump have been giving an indirect command on dropping the Flynn investigation--based on the context of the conversation and the words Trump spoke.
Feinstein asked why Comey didn't stop the conversations--he notes that he felt so stunned because of how inappropriate it was for him to do. Comey says he really hopes there are tapes of the conversation. Comey felt the cloud meant it was sucking up oxygen from Trump's priorities. Comey noted that he conversed with senior FBI officials and Director of the NSA about some of these conversations--making Rogers' refusal to comment yesterday all the more upsetting. They should have asked Rogers about his conversations with Comey. He wanted to protect the investigators from knowing that Trump was pressuring them to drop it. They elected not to tell Sessions because he was going to recuse himself and that there weren't other Senate confirmed officials at the DOJ at the time.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Feinstein asked why Comey didn't stop the conversations--he notes that he felt so stunned because of how inappropriate it was for him to do. Comey says he really hopes there are tapes of the conversation. Comey felt the cloud meant it was sucking up oxygen from Trump's priorities. Comey noted that he conversed with senior FBI officials and Director of the NSA about some of these conversations--making Rogers' refusal to comment yesterday all the more upsetting. They should have asked Rogers about his conversations with Comey. He wanted to protect the investigators from knowing that Trump was pressuring them to drop it. They elected not to tell Sessions because he was going to recuse himself and that there weren't other Senate confirmed officials at the DOJ at the time.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is, once again, where Trump firing Comey is the cherry on top on the obstruction sundae. If someone says "I hope you will do something," you don't do it, and then you're fired for not doing it, which you know because they told everyone from a televised interview to Russian diplomats that was the reason for your termination, it's abundantly clear that the "hope" in question was more of an order than a general desire for the world to be different.
posted by zachlipton at 8:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [45 favorites]
Yeah, Feinstein gets a lot of very deserved flak for being below replacement level as a California Senator, but her question asking why Comey didn't react more forcefully was a good one. The Democrats need to balance letting Comey share his experiences without appearing to be leading him / taking it easy on him, and that was a perfect way to do it. Comey's response was very humanizing -- essentially: yeah, I'm a tough dude, but maybe I should have been tougher. He can't come out and say he was complicit, but he's acknowledging that he didn't rise to the challenge.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think Comey's testimony is painting a picture of a man who is used to working with people who understand protocol, who understand the proper way to do things, confronted with a president who knows none of these things, and being stunned as to how to respond.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [66 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [66 favorites]
Predicting the Fox News headline will be "Trump not under investigation"
Comey: "Cowardly"
posted by leotrotsky at 8:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Comey: "Cowardly"
posted by leotrotsky at 8:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Interesting to see which Republicans are hacks here. I don't have any hope for Rubio, but interesting if Collins is anything other than milquetoast (not hopeful).
posted by leotrotsky at 8:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump wanted Comey to bring down the cloud, but it turns out to be extremely stable with failover redundancy
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Oh, hey, Marco. Reminder that Marco Rubio had dinner with Trump at the White House on Monday.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [39 favorites]
I think Trump was just following the tenets of The Secret, whereby you cause things to happen by hoping really, really hard for them.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
With regard to "I hope you can let this go," Comey brings up an important point: when the President of the United States, who you work for, tells you one-on-one that he "hopes" something will happen, you kind of have to see that as an instruction.
To quote Casino (badly): 'When the old man tells you 'maybe you quit', that's like a Papal Bull. Not only should you quit, you should run.'
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
To quote Casino (badly): 'When the old man tells you 'maybe you quit', that's like a Papal Bull. Not only should you quit, you should run.'
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
I think Trump was just following the tenets of The Secret, whereby you cause things to happen by hoping really, really hard for them
It worked for Scott Adams. Sigh.
posted by drezdn at 8:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
It worked for Scott Adams. Sigh.
posted by drezdn at 8:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
What is really bothering me about the Republican Senators (Risch and Rubio so far) that they are deliberately overlooking the context of these conversations. I've taught English language pragmatics in the workplace and this shit is *basic*--a boss will say "Can you clean that up?" and the correct response is not "Yes I am physically able", but rather "Yes, I will do that".
They are also trying to narrow the scope of the discussion soley to Flynn, in spite of Trump making comments, in publicly, specifically that he fired Comey because the investigation into Russian interference. It's pretty upsetting to watch these supposed leaders of our country being so purposefully obtuse.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
They are also trying to narrow the scope of the discussion soley to Flynn, in spite of Trump making comments, in publicly, specifically that he fired Comey because the investigation into Russian interference. It's pretty upsetting to watch these supposed leaders of our country being so purposefully obtuse.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
I'm reluctant to defend Burr, because he's been (it seems, from the outside, with imperfect information) seriously slow-walking investigations for months, but there's a gulf between the approach he's taking and (so far) that of his Republican colleagues in the Senate.
There's a view of Burr circulating on Twitter, such as this by Ali Watkins: "Difficult to overstate Burr's respect for Comey. I've covered him closely. The day Comey was fired was a profound shift for him, by my read."
I still have no faith in him, but he's giving the appearance he at least wants answers instead of acting as a member of Trump's defense team.
posted by zachlipton at 8:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
There's a view of Burr circulating on Twitter, such as this by Ali Watkins: "Difficult to overstate Burr's respect for Comey. I've covered him closely. The day Comey was fired was a profound shift for him, by my read."
I still have no faith in him, but he's giving the appearance he at least wants answers instead of acting as a member of Trump's defense team.
posted by zachlipton at 8:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Is this "he said hope" really the best that they can come up with? It feels like the tail end of a terrible Reddit fight I should have known better than to get involved in.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
Rubio and Comey are similarly dressed, but Comey is not wearing a lapel pin flag and his testimony should be struck from the record
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
The smallest of Marco Rubio's decency knows no bounds.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:09 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:09 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
you gotta pee sometime
Those words might be on a tape somewhere, too.
posted by duffell at 8:09 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Those words might be on a tape somewhere, too.
posted by duffell at 8:09 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's pretty upsetting to watch these supposed leaders of our country being so purposefully obtuse.
It feels like a bunch of lawyers trying to get their client off.
posted by drezdn at 8:09 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
It feels like a bunch of lawyers trying to get their client off.
posted by drezdn at 8:09 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
Phrasing?
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:10 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:10 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
No tweets from the President yet. He is apparently watching this with his legal team, who are taking turns to swat his hand away from the phone
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:11 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:11 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Wow. Wyden asks why Sessions was kept out of the loop. "Our judgement is that he was very close to and inevitably going to recuse himself for a variety of reasons. We were also aware of facts that I can't disclose in an open setting that would make his continued engagement on Russia related matters problematic."
To my ear, that goes way beyond "Sessions lied at his confirmation hearing about meeting Kislyak" and speaks to Sessions being seriously implicated in something. Either way, Sessions has been thrown under a double decker bus.
posted by zachlipton at 8:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [101 favorites]
To my ear, that goes way beyond "Sessions lied at his confirmation hearing about meeting Kislyak" and speaks to Sessions being seriously implicated in something. Either way, Sessions has been thrown under a double decker bus.
posted by zachlipton at 8:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [101 favorites]
Ron Wyden's one of the good guys.
...but I really wish somebody else were asking questions for our side. Something about his phrasing keeps getting me to tune him out.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:14 AM on June 8, 2017
...but I really wish somebody else were asking questions for our side. Something about his phrasing keeps getting me to tune him out.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:14 AM on June 8, 2017
Comey testifying that he kept the President's request to drop the investigation secret from the agents assigned to the investigation, because it would have undermined their work. This was clearly intentional obstruction of justice by the President, and that's a felony yo
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
On AG Sessions: “We were also aware of facts that I can’t disclose in an open setting."
Oh, to be a fly in the closed session this afternoon.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
Oh, to be a fly in the closed session this afternoon.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
No tweets from the President yet.
They were promising to show his tweets on screen and I'm disappointed that he's silent, fuck it, let's just do the government as a Twitch stream.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:16 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
They were promising to show his tweets on screen and I'm disappointed that he's silent, fuck it, let's just do the government as a Twitch stream.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:16 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, to be a fly in the closed session this afternoon.
DID THAT GRANDFATHER CLOCK JUST MOVE?
posted by Behemoth at 8:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
DID THAT GRANDFATHER CLOCK JUST MOVE?
posted by Behemoth at 8:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
Wyden is up!! He's the best Senator. First question is on the dinner on Jan 27th. Trump raised job prospects, denied allegations against, and asked for his loyalty. Comey felt his job was contingent on his perceived loyalty. On Sessions--why did they not talk to Sessions and Sessions involvement with Russians affect on that. Comey noted that Sessions was close to recusal and that there are classified reasons that influenced that decision.
If Trump had gotten what he wanted, the FBI would have dropped the open criminal investigation into Flynn's contacts with Russians. Wyden notes that Sally Yates found that Flynn could be blackmailed and wants to know whether the American people should be concerned that there are still people who had Russian Contacts still in high positions of power.
Wyden brings up Pence as transition team head. Comey thinks that Pence was aware of the problems with Flynn. Comey can't recall whether Sessions was aware of the Flynn issues. Wyden wants to know who was involved in recommending Comey's firing. Comey says he does not know.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
If Trump had gotten what he wanted, the FBI would have dropped the open criminal investigation into Flynn's contacts with Russians. Wyden notes that Sally Yates found that Flynn could be blackmailed and wants to know whether the American people should be concerned that there are still people who had Russian Contacts still in high positions of power.
Wyden brings up Pence as transition team head. Comey thinks that Pence was aware of the problems with Flynn. Comey can't recall whether Sessions was aware of the Flynn issues. Wyden wants to know who was involved in recommending Comey's firing. Comey says he does not know.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
No tweets from the President yet.
No, but Trump Jr. is live-tweeting the hearing.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
No, but Trump Jr. is live-tweeting the hearing.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh, hey, Marco. Reminder that Marco Rubio had dinner with Trump at the White House on Monday.
Yeah, and I'm surprised more is not being made of this. Who the hell invites the people holding a hearing about his own unethical and possibly illegal behavior over dinner at the White House—to dinner at the White House, three nights before that hearing?!
posted by Rykey at 8:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [52 favorites]
Yeah, and I'm surprised more is not being made of this. Who the hell invites the people holding a hearing about his own unethical and possibly illegal behavior over dinner at the White House—to dinner at the White House, three nights before that hearing?!
posted by Rykey at 8:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [52 favorites]
The first time I got really really deep into politics was the scandal of firing the US Attorneys--I watched the hearings before the Judiciary Committee. Those hearings were riveting, and I never thought I'd see such important hearings again.
The hearings from the today and yesterday blow the US Attorney firings out of the water.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
The hearings from the today and yesterday blow the US Attorney firings out of the water.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Why does the onus of responsibility fall solely on Comey's shoulders? I dont get this line of "why didnt you confront the President" questioning.
posted by H. Roark at 8:21 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by H. Roark at 8:21 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
"In my lifetime, I have been asked to pledge my loyalty often.... to my spouse, my country, my employers, my church, my godchildren, just to name a few....
Never considered that this could be Obstruction of Justice..... WOW...where are we going????"
"Comey already pledged loyalty to the Constitution. Then Trump asked him to pledge loyalty to him, personally. These two pledges are in conflict. It's like this: You get married and pledge loyalty to your spouse, 'forsaking all others'. Then another man comes along and asks you to pledge loyalty to him, 'forsaking all others'. Those two pledges are in conflict. To pledge loyalty to the second man, you would have to divorce your husband. Comey chose not to divorce the Constitution."
posted by vibrotronica at 8:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [70 favorites]
Never considered that this could be Obstruction of Justice..... WOW...where are we going????"
"Comey already pledged loyalty to the Constitution. Then Trump asked him to pledge loyalty to him, personally. These two pledges are in conflict. It's like this: You get married and pledge loyalty to your spouse, 'forsaking all others'. Then another man comes along and asks you to pledge loyalty to him, 'forsaking all others'. Those two pledges are in conflict. To pledge loyalty to the second man, you would have to divorce your husband. Comey chose not to divorce the Constitution."
posted by vibrotronica at 8:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [70 favorites]
Both Feinstein and now Collins have both used this "Why didn't you respond by saying/doing X?", which is really uncomfortably similar to how people question other people in a court of law when trying to prove that there was no abuse, "because if there were, they would have fought back or left" and such.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
No, but Trump Jr. is live-tweeting the hearing.
"Those threats were made in a totally deniable way. Checkmate, unpersons!"
posted by Artw at 8:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Those threats were made in a totally deniable way. Checkmate, unpersons!"
posted by Artw at 8:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Comey says he didn't alert the White House counsel because Trump's comments "were of investigative interest to us."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Also very disturbed about this line of questioning. Are they trying to pin Toddler's incompetence on him?
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 8:24 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 8:24 AM on June 8, 2017
Hot take from my mom's friend (who is cool and a stoner and it's really weird that she loves DJT so much...Never considered that this could be Obstruction of Justice..... WOW...where are we going????"
Tell your mom's friend they need to take a tolerance break.
posted by spitbull at 8:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Tell your mom's friend they need to take a tolerance break.
posted by spitbull at 8:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Why does the onus of responsibility fall solely on Comey's shoulders? I dont get this line of "why didnt you confront the President" questioning.
I'm half expecting them to ask why he didn't read him his Miranda rights.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm half expecting them to ask why he didn't read him his Miranda rights.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is the ultimate in the whole GOP "it's you're fault that we do the things we do' schtick.
posted by Jalliah at 8:25 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
On an unrelated point, there is apparently some doubt about whether a President can pardon himself.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:25 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:25 AM on June 8, 2017
I'm starting to feel like whenever Trump meets someone new, he asks them if they're a cop, because if they are and don't him that's entrapment. He mentions that last part when he asks them too.
posted by drezdn at 8:26 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 8:26 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
Wow Collins is really opening the door to let Comey dish dirt here. Why would she (as a republican) allow him such latitude?
posted by tractorfeed at 8:26 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tractorfeed at 8:26 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Latest footage of Eric Trump
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:27 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:27 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
She's the least Republican-y of the GOP senators
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
In about 2050, in some timeline where we fix global warming, end inequality and establish a stable post-scarcity society, it will be really fascinating to read Comey's biography. He's a villain but not a lickspittle, and you don't get a lot of those.
posted by Frowner at 8:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 8:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
After the "tapes," tweet, Comey says he woke up in the middle of the night and decided to have a friend (a Columbia law professor, not Ben Wittes, I've seen claims on twitter it was Daniel Richman) leak the details of his memo documenting the Trump meeting to the press. This was intentionally to prompt the appointment of a special counsel.
That's going to be a dramatic as hell scene in the movie.
In other words, Trump's dumbass tweet is what got him a special counsel investigating him.
posted by zachlipton at 8:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [63 favorites]
That's going to be a dramatic as hell scene in the movie.
In other words, Trump's dumbass tweet is what got him a special counsel investigating him.
posted by zachlipton at 8:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [63 favorites]
MSNBC says McCain is there today as well, and will be allowed to question Comey, as a courtesy to help the Republicans run out the clock.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I dont get this line of "why didnt you confront the President" questioning.
They're trying to build a context in which Comey's read of the situation was incorrect. Like the one Senator's line of questions about "he only said he HOPED you'd let this go, and that isn't an order" - as if there is no such thing as subtext and intentions behind words. So they're trying to suggest if T didn't give a direct order, and if C didn't respond as if he'd been given an inappropriate order in that moment, then they want us to think there WAS no order to obstruct.
It's utter bullshit, of course.
posted by dnash at 8:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
They're trying to build a context in which Comey's read of the situation was incorrect. Like the one Senator's line of questions about "he only said he HOPED you'd let this go, and that isn't an order" - as if there is no such thing as subtext and intentions behind words. So they're trying to suggest if T didn't give a direct order, and if C didn't respond as if he'd been given an inappropriate order in that moment, then they want us to think there WAS no order to obstruct.
It's utter bullshit, of course.
posted by dnash at 8:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I do not believe any running of the clock has been successful here.
posted by Artw at 8:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Heinrich just asked the most important question here: given that we know that Russian interference is a "no fuzz" fact, did the President ever even express concern about the seriousness of this hostile act from a foreign power? The answer of course is no. If he's not in on it, he's woefully incompetent.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [52 favorites]
Just so everyone knows, there are 181 Mefites dropping hot takes in Chat!
posted by corb at 8:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Super Deluxe is doing a live remix of the Comey testimony which you shouldn't watch because it's a matter of historical significance and you don't want to tell your kids you were watching this nonsense
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hm, when pressed about the conduit Comey used to get his perspective on Trump's tweet into to the press, he would only say it was a very close friend who's a professor at Columbia Law. I'm guessing this is a super easy thing for people to figure out—why such a thin veneer of obfuscation?
posted by Rykey at 8:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rykey at 8:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Collins seemed to be merrily walking down the path of : why didn't you teach the president how to do his job, asking him if he had told anyone to tell the president that he can't have private meetings with him, as if she expected him to answer no, but then he came back with : why yes, yes i did tell people, important people. it was not what i was expecting.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
"The statue of justice is blindfolded because she's not supposed to be peeking to see if her patron is pleased."
This is great! Who said it? Comey? A questioner?
posted by obliviax at 8:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is great! Who said it? Comey? A questioner?
posted by obliviax at 8:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Marc Kasowitz is going to make a statement as soon as Comey is done, so don't put your popcorn away.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Comey said that about the blindfold.
posted by harriet vane at 8:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by harriet vane at 8:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
By "chat" we mean the native Mefi chat, metafilter.com/chat
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Chris Hayes pointing out that Trump is trying to play both sides: yesterday, his lawyer put out a statement saying Comey's testimony 'vindicated" the President. Today, the White House is saying Trump denies asking for loyalty or letting the Flynn investigation go.
You can't be vindicated by something you dispute the basic factual accuracy of.
posted by zachlipton at 8:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [60 favorites]
You can't be vindicated by something you dispute the basic factual accuracy of.
posted by zachlipton at 8:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [60 favorites]
And now Blunt parroting the same talking points that look like the future refrain of the GOP, in two points: 1. why didn't you talk back/quit/rat him out? and 2. you voluntarily told Trump he wasn't being investigated on three occasions. The GOP is showing their hand here.
This is great! Who said it? Comey? A questioner?
It was Comey.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:39 AM on June 8, 2017
This is great! Who said it? Comey? A questioner?
It was Comey.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:39 AM on June 8, 2017
You can't be vindicated by something you dispute the basic factual accuracy of.
Of course you can. It's called the chutzpah defense.
posted by Talez at 8:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Of course you can. It's called the chutzpah defense.
posted by Talez at 8:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
You can't be vindicated by something you dispute the basic factual accuracy of.
It's my own lamp, it was broken when you lent it to me, it was in perfect shape when I gave it back, and I've never seen that lamp before in my life.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [67 favorites]
It's my own lamp, it was broken when you lent it to me, it was in perfect shape when I gave it back, and I've never seen that lamp before in my life.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [67 favorites]
Sen. Blunt (R-MO) is up. He wants to know why Comey didn't resign after these troubling interactions. Blunt is "concerned" that Comey took "no action". Comey felt that taking "no action" was the best thing he could do to preserve the integrity of the investigations. Blunt brought up the Logan Act, noting that no one has been convicted under it,and got at the idea that perhaps the criminal concerns about Flynn were making false statements to the FBI.
Blunt is trying to discredit Comey by asking why he kept taking calls from Trump after talking to Sessions. I think this ignores that these calls could very well be evidence in an active investigation or later be relevant to an investigation into obstruction of justice charges.
Blunt asked why Comey gave information about the Flynn conversation to a friend. Blunt is trying to trip Comey up, but Comey is a very good lawyer with a lot of practice, whereas Blunt...no. Blunt is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill for his private conversation in which he did not seem to reveal classified information
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Blunt is trying to discredit Comey by asking why he kept taking calls from Trump after talking to Sessions. I think this ignores that these calls could very well be evidence in an active investigation or later be relevant to an investigation into obstruction of justice charges.
Blunt asked why Comey gave information about the Flynn conversation to a friend. Blunt is trying to trip Comey up, but Comey is a very good lawyer with a lot of practice, whereas Blunt...no. Blunt is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill for his private conversation in which he did not seem to reveal classified information
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Damnit, corb, I went to chat and now it had a stroke.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
why didn't you talk back/quit/rat him out?
If you're the director of the FBI and he's the president of the United States, who the fuck are you supposed to rat him out to?
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
If you're the director of the FBI and he's the president of the United States, who the fuck are you supposed to rat him out to?
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Comey says in retrospect, he'd rather have had dinner with his wife (than the president).
posted by Dashy at 8:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 8:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Blunt asked why Comey gave information about the Flynn conversation to a friend. Blunt is trying to trip Comey up, but Comey is a very good lawyer with a lot of practice, whereas Blunt...no. Blunt is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill for his private conversation in which he did not seem to reveal classified information
One of the problems with being a successful white guy is realizing that you're NOT the smartest guy in the room, because no one will tell you.
Sen. Blunt (Rubio, etc) are suffering from that now. Comey is significantly brighter than him and I don't know that they fully get that.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
One of the problems with being a successful white guy is realizing that you're NOT the smartest guy in the room, because no one will tell you.
Sen. Blunt (Rubio, etc) are suffering from that now. Comey is significantly brighter than him and I don't know that they fully get that.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
Comey just quoted "Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?" Believing the King meant for Becket to be murdered, four knights ride to Canterbury Cathedral and kill Becket on December 29, 1170
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [95 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [95 favorites]
BINGO! obstruction of justice - meddling - tapes - putin - collusion; what do we win?
posted by progosk at 8:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by progosk at 8:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
@MEPFuller Paul Ryan on Trump and the Comey testimony: "He's just new to this."
Christ what an asshole.
posted by zachlipton at 8:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Christ what an asshole.
posted by zachlipton at 8:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
If you're the director of the FBI and he's the president of the United States, who the fuck are you supposed to rat him out to?
Comey's response makes sense: you don't want to give investigators the impression that the President wants this to "go away" because you don't want to influence the veracity of their efforts.
What strikes me as really disingenuous about this "why didn't you run away, quit or talk back?" line of questioning is that come on, imagine Comey had. This would give the GOP the opportunity to paint Comey as being openly hostile to the President. They know this. But they're poisoning the well deliberately so why would they act any different.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Comey's response makes sense: you don't want to give investigators the impression that the President wants this to "go away" because you don't want to influence the veracity of their efforts.
What strikes me as really disingenuous about this "why didn't you run away, quit or talk back?" line of questioning is that come on, imagine Comey had. This would give the GOP the opportunity to paint Comey as being openly hostile to the President. They know this. But they're poisoning the well deliberately so why would they act any different.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
the chat is super slow for me. but I don't wanna spam here.
King is getting some great details here!
posted by numaner at 8:46 AM on June 8, 2017
King is getting some great details here!
posted by numaner at 8:46 AM on June 8, 2017
"He's just new to this."
Corruption? I think not.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Corruption? I think not.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Angus King (I-ME)'s greatest quote so far: "I don't think Putin is a Republican or a Democrat. He's an opportunist." (h/t corb in chat).
Comey notes in this questioning session that he never initiated or requested meetings with Trump. Comey wants to answer questions about the details of the investigation in closed session. King is re-enforcing the idea that "I hope.." coming from a boss in the circumstances Comey described is actually a command. King is getting Comey to talk about Kislyak relationship to Russian Intelligence. Comey felt the Flynn and Russian investigations were "touching each other but separate"--he felt that closing the investigation could potentially harm the investigation because with criminal charges, you can get someone to turns State's.
Comey comes across much better than the dudes from yesterday.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
Comey notes in this questioning session that he never initiated or requested meetings with Trump. Comey wants to answer questions about the details of the investigation in closed session. King is re-enforcing the idea that "I hope.." coming from a boss in the circumstances Comey described is actually a command. King is getting Comey to talk about Kislyak relationship to Russian Intelligence. Comey felt the Flynn and Russian investigations were "touching each other but separate"--he felt that closing the investigation could potentially harm the investigation because with criminal charges, you can get someone to turns State's.
Comey comes across much better than the dudes from yesterday.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
Comey is very human and boyish while still being professional. Remarkable. Still don't trust him 100%, but he seems earnest.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Comey just quoted "Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?" Believing the King meant for Becket to be murdered, four knights ride to Canterbury Cathedral and kill Becket on December 29, 1170
Obligatory Blackadder Reference.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Obligatory Blackadder Reference.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
"I want a copy of all those records so that we can get everyone's story straight."
posted by leotrotsky at 8:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is wild. Sen. Lankford is asking that Comey ask the New York Times for copies of the memos so he can hand them over to the committee. Mueller has them, but the DOJ hasn't given them to the committee.
Since Comey outed himself as the source of the leak, what's stopping the NYT from just publishing the documents now? Seems like that would be easiest for everyone.
posted by zachlipton at 8:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Since Comey outed himself as the source of the leak, what's stopping the NYT from just publishing the documents now? Seems like that would be easiest for everyone.
posted by zachlipton at 8:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
"He's just new to this."
The first term was always going to be a sort of sandbox trial run; we have to give him a second term before he'll really settle into to being the most powerful person alive
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
The first term was always going to be a sort of sandbox trial run; we have to give him a second term before he'll really settle into to being the most powerful person alive
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump: "Wait, I can just tell them to stop?"
Lawyers: "There's important norms that-"
Trump: "STAAAHHPPP!!!"
posted by leotrotsky at 8:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Lawyers: "There's important norms that-"
Trump: "STAAAHHPPP!!!"
posted by leotrotsky at 8:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Does the NYT even have the memos? I thought that someone else read portions of them over the phone to reporters.
posted by joedan at 8:51 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by joedan at 8:51 AM on June 8, 2017
> Paul Ryan on Trump and the Comey testimony: "He's just new to this."
Simpsons did it:
Carl: Hey, what do you got against Homer, anyway?
Grimes: Are you kidding? Does this whole plant have some disease where you can't see that he's an idiot? Look here. [points out a chart tacked to the bulletin board] Accidents have doubled every year since he became safety inspector, and, and meltdowns have tripled. Has he been fired? No. Has he been disciplined? No, no.
Lenny: Eh, everybody makes mistakes. That's why they put erasers on pencils.
Carl: Yeah, Homer's okay. Give him a break.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
Simpsons did it:
Carl: Hey, what do you got against Homer, anyway?
Grimes: Are you kidding? Does this whole plant have some disease where you can't see that he's an idiot? Look here. [points out a chart tacked to the bulletin board] Accidents have doubled every year since he became safety inspector, and, and meltdowns have tripled. Has he been fired? No. Has he been disciplined? No, no.
Lenny: Eh, everybody makes mistakes. That's why they put erasers on pencils.
Carl: Yeah, Homer's okay. Give him a break.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
The radio silence from Twitler is kind of disconcerting. Like now he decides to take the advice of people who know what the fuck they're talking about instead of hanging himself on the rope provided.
posted by Talez at 8:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Republicans: "Ok but isn't this all about Loretta Lynch tho"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Risch: Mr. Comey, have you ever seen a person convicted for obstruction of justice just for saying "that's a nice face you've got there, it'd be a shame if anything 'happened' to it" while lightly punching the palm of their hand with a set of brass knuckles?
[fake. barely]
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
[fake. barely]
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
It's amazing that Lankford needs to be explained to the difference between agents reading the President's tweets and agents learning the President told the FBI director personally "I hope you can let this go."
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Lankford (R-OK) is up. Lankford's questions are about who in the executive pressured Comey about Flynn. He's claiming that the President* giving an indirect command to the FBI Director is a "pretty light touch".
Lankford notes that Trump has tweeted multiple times about his dislike of the Russian investigation. Comey noted that the tweets are one thing but that the President giving his indirect command to the FBI Director after ordering all other officers out might have had a chilling effect on the agents working the case, if they had found out.
Gah, Lankford is frustrating me because he's talking about the emails AGAIN, which have been discussed ad nauseum for years at this point. Could we stick to the matter at hand??? Overall some really pathetic attempts at oversight from Lankford.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Lankford notes that Trump has tweeted multiple times about his dislike of the Russian investigation. Comey noted that the tweets are one thing but that the President giving his indirect command to the FBI Director after ordering all other officers out might have had a chilling effect on the agents working the case, if they had found out.
Gah, Lankford is frustrating me because he's talking about the emails AGAIN, which have been discussed ad nauseum for years at this point. Could we stick to the matter at hand??? Overall some really pathetic attempts at oversight from Lankford.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
The radio silence from Twitler is kind of disconcerting. Like now he decides to take the advice of people who know what the fuck they're talking about instead of hanging himself on the rope provided.
I wouldn't be so concerned. He more then likely has lawyers and people literally by his side and talking to him in order to keep him busy. They're likely allowing him to vent on them. He appears to be at his worst on twitter when he's alone and has no one else to vent to.
posted by Jalliah at 8:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I wouldn't be so concerned. He more then likely has lawyers and people literally by his side and talking to him in order to keep him busy. They're likely allowing him to vent on them. He appears to be at his worst on twitter when he's alone and has no one else to vent to.
posted by Jalliah at 8:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
The radio silence from Twitler is kind of disconcerting.
Maybe the lawyers tackled him to take his phone away. One can dream, right?
posted by Melismata at 8:56 AM on June 8, 2017
Maybe the lawyers tackled him to take his phone away. One can dream, right?
posted by Melismata at 8:56 AM on June 8, 2017
Man, did they pick the wrong guy to mess with: "Comey graduated from the College of William and Mary in 1982, majoring in chemistry and religion. His senior thesis analyzed the liberal theologian Reinhold Niebuhr and the conservative televangelist Jerry Falwell, emphasizing their common belief in public action" (via wikipedia) then on to U of Chicago for law. The only similar parry-and-riposte performance I've seen in recent memory is . . . Hillary, actually.
posted by Caxton1476 at 8:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by Caxton1476 at 8:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
The radio silence from Twitler is kind of disconcerting.
The less disconcerting part is that every minute he's restrained, or induced to self-restrain, from tweeting about this is just building up bigger and bigger psychic injury so later it's all gonna go KABLAMMO like one of those extra-gross giant cysts that Sandra Lee (physician not FLoNY) busts on her youtubes.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
The less disconcerting part is that every minute he's restrained, or induced to self-restrain, from tweeting about this is just building up bigger and bigger psychic injury so later it's all gonna go KABLAMMO like one of those extra-gross giant cysts that Sandra Lee (physician not FLoNY) busts on her youtubes.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
RE: Russian interference - "That is a Big. Deal."
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:57 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:57 AM on June 8, 2017
Of all the things that I worry about -- and there are many -- Trump failing to make an ass of himself on Twitter at some point is not one of 'em.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 8:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Comey just gave an incredibly powerful statement that I hope is quoted and repeated. Essentially, it's a call to American democracy - that we are the shining city on the hill, a big messy country where we may disagree but only Americans talk and argue and tell each other what to do - not other countries trying to destroy us as a nation.
posted by corb at 8:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [70 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [70 favorites]
the chat is super slow for me. but I don't wanna spam here.
Chat is being restarted now...
posted by Surely This at 8:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Chat is being restarted now...
posted by Surely This at 8:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Comey says that "all he can do is hope" that there are tapes, and asks that Trump release the tapes. Game on, motherfucker.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
Is there something dirty I need to know about Senator Manchin? The more I hear him talk in these hearings, the more I like him.
posted by carsonb at 8:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by carsonb at 8:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lankford definitely gave Comey another opportunity to characterize Trump's "hope" as a request to drop the investigation. Comey nailed it.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Thank god Comey isn't a woman, then. Sob.
posted by rikschell at 8:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 8:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
His senior thesis analyzed the liberal theologian Reinhold Niebuhr and the conservative televangelist Jerry Falwell, emphasizing their common belief in public action...
No contrast between one being an accomplished intellectual and the other a money-grubbing, hateful pin-head?
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
No contrast between one being an accomplished intellectual and the other a money-grubbing, hateful pin-head?
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The less disconcerting part is that every minute he's restrained, or induced to self-restrain, from tweeting about this is just building up bigger and bigger psychic injury so later it's all gonna go KABLAMMO like one of those extra-gross giant cysts that Sandra Lee (physician not FLoNY) busts on her youtubes.
I'm just more afraid that the praise from our more sycophantic pundits about "acting presidential" and not responding to Comey by live tweeting is going to be the methadone to his usual ego heroin.
posted by Talez at 9:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm just more afraid that the praise from our more sycophantic pundits about "acting presidential" and not responding to Comey by live tweeting is going to be the methadone to his usual ego heroin.
posted by Talez at 9:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Manchin is up. Comey talks about how Russia are coming after us because our Democracy is a threat to them. Comey has just consented under oath to release any tapes of his conversations with Trump that Trump may have. Comey noted that Trump never gave him negative feedback about his job performance.
Manchin's questions were pretty decent.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Manchin's questions were pretty decent.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
The extent to which Republicans, from Paul Ryan on down, keep insisting that Trump just didn't know how to President, how to talk to the FBI, is horrifying. They're trying to cover for a grown-ass man who has a job he's clearly unqualified for and refuses to take any advice from the multitude of experts and advisors who could be at his disposal.
The excuse for obstruction of justice should not be "oh yeah he's new at this." It's like the Dave Chapelle white guy "Sorry officer, I didn't know I couldn't do that" bit, except for the President.
posted by zachlipton at 9:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [67 favorites]
The excuse for obstruction of justice should not be "oh yeah he's new at this." It's like the Dave Chapelle white guy "Sorry officer, I didn't know I couldn't do that" bit, except for the President.
posted by zachlipton at 9:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [67 favorites]
How long before Trump tweets "When I said 'I hope you will let the Russian thing go' I meant that if he didn't I would fire him?"
posted by drezdn at 9:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 9:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
God it's so weird to see a professional person in the political sphere (though not a politician) being natural and speaking comfortably and seeming honest. And it's weird that it's so weird. He was just asked whether he believes he would have been fired if Hillary Clinton was elected president. He took a beat, considered, and said "that's a great question; I don't know." I actually believe that it hadn't occurred to him to wonder.
posted by penduluum at 9:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by penduluum at 9:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
From the Guardian - Comey: "The president surely knows whether he taped me, and if he did my feelings aren’t hurt. Release all the tapes, I’m good with it."
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Comey says that "all he can do is hope" that there are tapes, and asks that Trump release the tapes.
Yeah, Comey's utter blitheness about these possible tapes is remarkable. It bolsters his credibility, particularly when contrasted with Trump's known lying and inability to keep a consistent story on anything. Comey is far more sure that any tape will corroborate his story than the White House staff are that it would vindicate Trump.
posted by dnash at 9:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yeah, Comey's utter blitheness about these possible tapes is remarkable. It bolsters his credibility, particularly when contrasted with Trump's known lying and inability to keep a consistent story on anything. Comey is far more sure that any tape will corroborate his story than the White House staff are that it would vindicate Trump.
posted by dnash at 9:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Wow, Cotton makes Rubio look like the better stooge for the WH. Cotton is terrible at this.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 9:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Folks, if someone has the foresight to ask for responses in memail so as not to derail this conversation, please do it!
posted by greermahoney at 9:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 9:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Comey has just consented under oath to release any tapes of his conversations with Trump that Trump may have.
I really hope somebody checked that grandfather clock last night.
posted by kitcat at 9:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I really hope somebody checked that grandfather clock last night.
posted by kitcat at 9:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wow, the way Comey had to tiptoe around Cotton's question about Feinstein saying there was no evidence of collusion strongly implies that there was at least some evidence of it. Talk about being hoist by your own petard.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:06 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Comey just agreed that this NYT story, Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence is "almost entirely wrong."
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Comey's responses to Cotton are a testament to why I'm not a federal agent. By the third question I'd be like "Holy shit dude I CANNOT TALK about classified material why is this so hard to understand GOD"
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
Senator Cotton doesn't seem to understand the difference between open and closed.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
So far this is exactly what I expected (sadly) - Comey is smearing Team Trump, and hard, but stopping short of saying clearly and definitively that they obstructed justice or otherwise did something really awful. Everyone will be able to write the headline they want to write, defending or attacking however they want.
posted by martin q blank at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by martin q blank at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
but stopping short of saying clearly and definitively that they obstructed justice or otherwise did something really awful.
It would be completely inappropriate for him to do that, as he has said. It's not his job.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:10 AM on June 8, 2017 [45 favorites]
It would be completely inappropriate for him to do that, as he has said. It's not his job.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:10 AM on June 8, 2017 [45 favorites]
OK, to be fair, Senator Kamala Harris also doesn't understand closed vs. open session.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:11 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:11 AM on June 8, 2017
Senator Cotton doesn't seem to understand the difference between open and closed.
Whereas Senator Harris does, and is repeatedly asking questions about things she knows are closed because she wants Comey to say "I can't talk about that here."
posted by mightygodking at 9:11 AM on June 8, 2017 [49 favorites]
Whereas Senator Harris does, and is repeatedly asking questions about things she knows are closed because she wants Comey to say "I can't talk about that here."
posted by mightygodking at 9:11 AM on June 8, 2017 [49 favorites]
Why all the questions that he obviously cannot answer in open session, about "are you aware of (x detail) about Russia?"
posted by Dashy at 9:11 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by Dashy at 9:11 AM on June 8, 2017
I don't think think that they misunderstand open vs closed. I think they're getting the questions into the record.
posted by instamatic at 9:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [77 favorites]
posted by instamatic at 9:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [77 favorites]
When do we get to the point where "did the campaign collude with Russia?" is something the public is entitled to know an answer to? Because it's June, and it's a really fucking important question, and we actually can't just go on forever with "it's classified."
This isn't some botched CIA operation that they've hushed up. We actually need a clear answer at some point.
posted by zachlipton at 9:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
This isn't some botched CIA operation that they've hushed up. We actually need a clear answer at some point.
posted by zachlipton at 9:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
I don't think think that they misunderstand open vs closed. I think they're getting the questions into the record.
Yes, this is a more generous interpretation.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:13 AM on June 8, 2017
Yes, this is a more generous interpretation.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:13 AM on June 8, 2017
Why all the questions that he obviously cannot answer in open session, about "are you aware of (x detail) about Russia?"
Because "I can't talk about that here" can sound, to a casual listener, like "yes, but I'm not allowed to say so."
posted by mightygodking at 9:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Because "I can't talk about that here" can sound, to a casual listener, like "yes, but I'm not allowed to say so."
posted by mightygodking at 9:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
stopping short of saying clearly and definitively that they obstructed justice
It would be like putting a cop on the stand an asking "do you believe the suspect you arrested is guilty of committing murder?", and expecting a yes/no answer. By which I mean (a) they can't say that, they can only attest to the facts and (b) being guilty of murder is a legal status, not a factual description of reality -- this person killed that person, this person shot that person and that gunshot wound led to their death would be descriptions of a set of facts. Guilt and murder are legal questions.
Trump telling Comey "I hope you end the Flynn investigation" and then firing him when he didn't (and going into the media to say that yes, he fired him because of Russia) is a description of facts; "obstruction of justice" is a legal status. That's up to the (as it were) jury, not the witness.
posted by penduluum at 9:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
It would be like putting a cop on the stand an asking "do you believe the suspect you arrested is guilty of committing murder?", and expecting a yes/no answer. By which I mean (a) they can't say that, they can only attest to the facts and (b) being guilty of murder is a legal status, not a factual description of reality -- this person killed that person, this person shot that person and that gunshot wound led to their death would be descriptions of a set of facts. Guilt and murder are legal questions.
Trump telling Comey "I hope you end the Flynn investigation" and then firing him when he didn't (and going into the media to say that yes, he fired him because of Russia) is a description of facts; "obstruction of justice" is a legal status. That's up to the (as it were) jury, not the witness.
posted by penduluum at 9:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
> When do we get to the point where "did the campaign collude with Russia?" is something the public is entitled to know an answer to? Because it's June, and it's a really fucking important question, and we actually can't just go on forever with "it's classified."
It has to be done via Mueller's investigation so it can be directly connected to the case for removal of senior officials and/or Trump's impeachment.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
It has to be done via Mueller's investigation so it can be directly connected to the case for removal of senior officials and/or Trump's impeachment.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
When do we get to the point where "did the campaign collude with Russia?" is something the public is entitled to know an answer to? Because it's June, and it's a really fucking important question, and we actually can't just go on forever with "it's classified."
I suspect because the investigators don't want to tip their hand. We're aware of what happens to people who might be able to connect dots to people in power in the Russian government. I don't think the feds are going to spring this trap until they have something iron-clad, and can get persons of interest into protective custody. Just my amateur speculation.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:16 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I suspect because the investigators don't want to tip their hand. We're aware of what happens to people who might be able to connect dots to people in power in the Russian government. I don't think the feds are going to spring this trap until they have something iron-clad, and can get persons of interest into protective custody. Just my amateur speculation.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:16 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Agreed, "won't discuss in an open session" works the same way that pleading the fifth does, except you're incriminating someone else with innuendo.
posted by gladly at 9:16 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by gladly at 9:16 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
It would be completely inappropriate for him to do that, as he has said. It's not his job.
I kinda overstated that, didn't I? I guess what I'm looking for is something like, "The president's intent was clear, that he wanted me to drop the investigation. And when we did not, he fired me." He's not giving anyone the great headline-level quote.
posted by martin q blank at 9:16 AM on June 8, 2017
I kinda overstated that, didn't I? I guess what I'm looking for is something like, "The president's intent was clear, that he wanted me to drop the investigation. And when we did not, he fired me." He's not giving anyone the great headline-level quote.
posted by martin q blank at 9:16 AM on June 8, 2017
@Acosta: Sarah Sanders at briefing: "No I can say definitively the president is not a liar." Also: "It's frankly insulting that that question would be asked."
Follow-up question from me: "Sarah, are you a liar?"
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, CNN has US led-coalition strikes pro-Syrian regime forces a third time. This is increasingly an escalation in a conflict with no Congressional investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 9:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Follow-up question from me: "Sarah, are you a liar?"
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, CNN has US led-coalition strikes pro-Syrian regime forces a third time. This is increasingly an escalation in a conflict with no Congressional investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 9:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Because "I can't talk about that here" can sound, to a casual listener, like "yes, but I'm not allowed to say so."
Yeah, like, I'm wondering if Harris's questions about whether Sessions has abided by his recusal means she already knows he hasn't? Or just wants to create the impression he hasn't?
posted by dnash at 9:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, like, I'm wondering if Harris's questions about whether Sessions has abided by his recusal means she already knows he hasn't? Or just wants to create the impression he hasn't?
posted by dnash at 9:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
OK, to be fair, Senator Kamala Harris also doesn't understand closed vs. open session.
Much more so than Cotton it seemed obvious that she was expecting those (non)answers, and just wanted it public what she would be asking later.
posted by solotoro at 9:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Much more so than Cotton it seemed obvious that she was expecting those (non)answers, and just wanted it public what she would be asking later.
posted by solotoro at 9:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Harris is going after Sessions hard. Asking many questions about whether the AG continued to involve himself after his recusal. Also asked about Sessions' response to Comey's request to not be left alone with Trump ("He didn't say anything.").
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
Sen. Harris is up! She's amazing XD. Her opener: "When a robber held a gun to someone's head and said I hope you'll give me your wallet, the word hope is not the operative word at that point." (h/t corb in chat).
She's asking about whether or he's aware of Trump officials trying to communicate with the Russians with encrypted communications, whether he's seen evidence of document destruction. He says he can't answer in open session.
She wants to know about Sessions involvement. Comey is unaware of other loyalty asks to members of the cabinet. Her questions are coming so quickly that it's hard to keep up (sorry about that!). Essentially, she's getting a bunch of good questions and answers on the record.
She's just asked about what Sessions did when he was ordered out of the room. Comey notes that Sessions body language seemed to convey "What am I going to do?" She has gotten him to note specifically that Trump's public statements have changed Comey's understanding of Trump's actions regarding the investigation.
Oh man, she's so good--asking great, specific questions. You can tell she's a seasoned prosecutor and that Comey knows how to witness very well. I think she's gotten the most questions and answers.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [79 favorites]
She's asking about whether or he's aware of Trump officials trying to communicate with the Russians with encrypted communications, whether he's seen evidence of document destruction. He says he can't answer in open session.
She wants to know about Sessions involvement. Comey is unaware of other loyalty asks to members of the cabinet. Her questions are coming so quickly that it's hard to keep up (sorry about that!). Essentially, she's getting a bunch of good questions and answers on the record.
She's just asked about what Sessions did when he was ordered out of the room. Comey notes that Sessions body language seemed to convey "What am I going to do?" She has gotten him to note specifically that Trump's public statements have changed Comey's understanding of Trump's actions regarding the investigation.
Oh man, she's so good--asking great, specific questions. You can tell she's a seasoned prosecutor and that Comey knows how to witness very well. I think she's gotten the most questions and answers.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [79 favorites]
Cornyn: "Let me take you back to the Clinton email investigation."
All of America: "Yes, please, we just haven't had enough of that!"
posted by tonycpsu at 9:19 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
All of America: "Yes, please, we just haven't had enough of that!"
posted by tonycpsu at 9:19 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
Philip Allen Lacovara, Washington Post Op-Ed: I helped prosecute Watergate. Comey’s statement is sufficient evidence for an obstruction of justice case.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [57 favorites]
Sen. Cornyn: If you want an investigation to go away wouldn't firing the FBI director be a bad way to do that?
[real]
Me: Ask Richard Nixon.
posted by dnash at 9:21 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
[real]
Me: Ask Richard Nixon.
posted by dnash at 9:21 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
So Cornyn just wants to wax nostalgic about the Clinton emails. Is he unaware why the committee is convening today? Does he think this is some kind of open panel Q&A at Comicon or something?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:21 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:21 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Cornyn's not that bright, is he?
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Cornyn seems really excited that he's building a strong and significant case for the impeachment of Hillary Clinton. He can barely count the days until they can remove her from the Presidency!
posted by penduluum at 9:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [96 favorites]
posted by penduluum at 9:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [96 favorites]
Sarah Sanders says "I have no idea" when asked if there is a White House taping system.
This is insane. It's been like a month since the tweet claiming there are tapes.
Can't the committee just subpoena tapes if they exist?
posted by zachlipton at 9:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
This is insane. It's been like a month since the tweet claiming there are tapes.
Can't the committee just subpoena tapes if they exist?
posted by zachlipton at 9:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
Cornyn's question's are a joke having to do with BUT HER EMAILS and I'm not going to waste time giving his bullshit any more airtime than he's getting. It's a serious contrast to Sen. Harris who had real, substantive questions about the matter at hand--the firing of Director Comey and Russian electoral interference. Cornyn is a disgrace to the Senate, our Country, and all of us.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
I bet he'd be the question asked everyone at the comics Q&A would groan whe not they see coming up. High chance of a "question" that's more of a long rambling statement about something irrelevant.
posted by Artw at 9:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Shorter John Cornyn: "Everything we wanted you to do about the Clinton emails? Yeah, please don't do any of that now."
posted by tonycpsu at 9:25 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:25 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
I've gained an enormous amount of respect for Comey today. He's extremely competent at testifying and comes across as trustworthy and honest. The attempts by the Republicans to take him down are pathetic.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
Sen. Reed doesn't have the best delivery, but he got some great quotes out of Comey.
posted by diogenes at 9:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 9:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
And now we've got a special treat for y'all -- on the bass guitar, ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Straight Talkin' Johnny McCain!
posted by tonycpsu at 9:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Comey's gone all-out:
Trump: Liar!
Hillary: Crooked!
News: Fake!
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:32 AM on June 8, 2017
Trump: Liar!
Hillary: Crooked!
News: Fake!
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:32 AM on June 8, 2017
Grampy McFeelpants is up. Trying to bulk up his GOP bona fides? Or will he get all mavericky? Breath being held.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The very first words out of McCain's mouth are "Senator Clinton", he's not even going with platitudes for Comey, he's just hell bent on deflection.
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
(Reed is my senator, and I like him a lot.)
posted by wenestvedt at 9:32 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by wenestvedt at 9:32 AM on June 8, 2017
And now we've got a special treat for y'all -- on the bass guitar, ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Straight Talkin' Johnny McCain!
What's his concern level?
posted by drezdn at 9:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
What's his concern level?
posted by drezdn at 9:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Senators asking questions they know Comey can only answer in closed session are doing so because it signals to their constituents (who are us, watching on TV) and puts on the record the questions they intend to ask behind closed doors. We may not be privy to the answers....right now.... but we can certainly know that our Senators are asking all the right questions. And it gives Comey the opportunity to tell everyone watching "I will answer those questions to your satisfaction....behind closed doors."
posted by carsonb at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by carsonb at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
I wonder, historically, whether the GOP focus -- in an interview about Russian attempts to subvert our democracy -- on Hillary Clinton will reflect poorly on them or if it will be swept under the rug. I'm not current enough to know for sure; did Republicans in Watergate continuously try to derail those investigations with spurious bullshit?
(Is John McCain even awake?)
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
(Is John McCain even awake?)
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
McCain is now focusing on an ongoing investigation into Hillary Clinton which doesn't exist. Thanks, John.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
The thing about Comey is he's an experienced, practicing attorney, whereas most of the Republicans trying to lawyer him...aren't. I mean, consider someone like Jefferson Session or Trey Gowdy--two white guys who've never had to bring more than their C- game, because they can lean on the institutional power to lean on defendants who lack the resources of government to poke holes in their cases. They aren't especially good prosecutors--they're just privileged with institional power.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is McCain ok? He sounds very confused.
posted by diogenes at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
Oh, FSM, McCain is talking like my demented grandpa.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
The consensus in Chat is that we are very disappointed in John McCain.
By consensus, I mean, "endless stream of profanity."
posted by corb at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [54 favorites]
By consensus, I mean, "endless stream of profanity."
posted by corb at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [54 favorites]
All of Twitter thinks McCain is having a stroke.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
McCain is literally yelling at clouds right now.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
but stopping short of saying clearly and definitively that they obstructed justice or otherwise did something really awful.
It would be completely inappropriate for him to do that, as he has said. It's not his job.
Yet curiously, he did exactly the opposite regarding the Clinton investigation. Completely inappropriate and in direct contradiction of department policy.
Comey is not your friend. Comey's claim of "integrity" is appallingly selective. Never forget that we wouldn't even need to be having these hearings if Comey had just done his job instead of carrying water for the Republicans.
posted by JackFlash at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
It would be completely inappropriate for him to do that, as he has said. It's not his job.
Yet curiously, he did exactly the opposite regarding the Clinton investigation. Completely inappropriate and in direct contradiction of department policy.
Comey is not your friend. Comey's claim of "integrity" is appallingly selective. Never forget that we wouldn't even need to be having these hearings if Comey had just done his job instead of carrying water for the Republicans.
posted by JackFlash at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
President Comey!
posted by ian1977 at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
McCain seems to be going through an episode of dementia, in public on camera. Wow.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by rc3spencer at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [42 favorites]
Is McCain ok? He sounds very confused.
At least "in the mind of this member", he's not confused
posted by Namlit at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017
At least "in the mind of this member", he's not confused
posted by Namlit at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017
McCain shouted out to President Comey, which is an interesting timeline.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
Comey sounds as baffled at McCain as the rest of us. He's really not making any sense right now. It's straight up weird.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm not even kidding. Something is wrong with McCain.
posted by diogenes at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
McCain seems feeble and confused. He's going after the emails, too. Comey says the investigation is closed, McCain saying he still has doubts and says Russia was involved in her campaign. Has said "Comey" instead of "Trump" twice. Comey seems baffled by the questions.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
John McCain cannot comprehend how it is possible that the FBI is still investigating links between the Trump campaign and Russia, but not links between the Clinton campaign and Russia. They should perhaps also be investigating links between the Vermin Supreme campaign and Russia.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
Clearly we're starving for heroes right now.
posted by Tarumba at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Tarumba at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
God, why is McCain even there? His basic argument is "You finished an investigation! Why is this other, distinct investigation not complete? And can we talk about that other finished investigation instead?". And he seems to be half asleep. He called Trump "Comey" twice.
posted by jackbishop at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by jackbishop at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
McCain can't comprehend that different cases that start at different times call for different investigations.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
I feel like I never really understood the idiom "stepping on [one's] own dick" until this McCain questioning started.
posted by penduluum at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by penduluum at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
John McCain has thoroughly convinced me that Hillary Clinton cannot and must not remain in the Oval Office, if she is there currently
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [96 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [96 favorites]
This is fucking surreal.
posted by diogenes at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think McCain felt he had to be there, but his cognitive decline is evident. He is confused about the facts and the timeline of events. He should retire gracefully. Where is his family?
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm not even kidding. Something is wrong with McCain.
Yeah, holy shit, I would be concerned for his health if I didn't actively want terrible things to happen to him.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
Yeah, holy shit, I would be concerned for his health if I didn't actively want terrible things to happen to him.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
McCain has apparently been napping since late June of last year. He honestly doesn't know that the Clinton investigation was about a private email server. He doesn't understand why this investigation ended. Moreover, he doesn't understand why Trump's campaign is of interest to the feds but not Clinton's. And based on this he's talking about a "double standard". Go back to bed, John, adults are trying to work here.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
@KevinMKruse: Odd to hear Republican senators lecture Jim Comey on how he should've stood up to Trump earlier and in more forceful tones
posted by joedan at 9:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [105 favorites]
posted by joedan at 9:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [105 favorites]
This is bizarre. He referred to the president as Comey, and more than once. He seems baffled by how Clinton's case was closed but the Russia probe is still open, calling it a double standard (one probe started much later than the other). Then he asks Comey, seemingly without guile, whether he thought this Russia involvement is a big deal. As if he had no idea what this session was about.
Weird, weird, weird.
posted by mochapickle at 9:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Weird, weird, weird.
posted by mochapickle at 9:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Trump demanded that the FBI end a criminal investigation. McCain is demanding that a criminal investigation be magically conjured into being despite having concluded. Only the first of these is felony obstruction of justice, so McCain is in the clear
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Alas, no matter how far McCain digs into that "thing" issue, he is not going to confirm the Trump/Comey OTP. Look, Comey doesn't want to talk about it, OK?
posted by jackbishop at 9:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jackbishop at 9:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is McCain doing this on purpose or is he genuinely confused. He can't figure out that the Clinton campaign was not involved in the collusion with the Russians but rather her emails (tm) were used by the Russians. I'm either really concerned about John McCain or he is compromised.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 9:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
McCain's questioning is a joke. He's equating the investigation of Clinton's emails to Trump's possible collusion with Russia. It's pathetic and worse that Cornyn. He's mystified at a "double standard" that the Clinton investigation was closed, while the Trump investigation has continued. McCain disgraces every oath he has ever sworn to Constitution or the American People. He disgraces our Revolutionary Ancestors and every single person loyal to the best principles of our government*.
*Not all of our history is wonderful or an unalloyed good.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
*Not all of our history is wonderful or an unalloyed good.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
So what was that TV Western Senator Burr used to star in? It was always on a high-number UHF channel and came in real fuzzy.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Only an hour of closed session? Wow.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Rachel Maddow on Twitter: I think what Sen McCain is saying is that FBI should investigate if Hillary Clinton colluded with the Russians to hurt her own campaign. OK.
I don't even know what to make of that. What an ending.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
I don't even know what to make of that. What an ending.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
Is McCain senile?
posted by Catblack at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Catblack at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
McCain was so strange and unsettling that it made me nauseous.
posted by diogenes at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Stroke Talk Express.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
I don't know what's going on with John McCain right now, but I am concerned. Possibly even disturbed.
But, I don't think I'll do anything about it.
posted by nubs at 9:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [102 favorites]
But, I don't think I'll do anything about it.
posted by nubs at 9:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [102 favorites]
Is McCain doing this on purpose or is he genuinely confused
He seemed completely befuddled when he ran out of time, and before that did not seem to hear the gavel signaling his time had come to a close.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
He seemed completely befuddled when he ran out of time, and before that did not seem to hear the gavel signaling his time had come to a close.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's a gallery of other senators' faces as McCain spoke.
I'm legitimately concerned for his well-being at this point.
posted by zachlipton at 9:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
I'm legitimately concerned for his well-being at this point.
posted by zachlipton at 9:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
Senator Burr at least seems to understand the gravity of how this current situation is designed to undermine faith in our democratic institutions. He also seems to understand that the FBI seem to be the adults in the room.
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
McCain might have triggered a recall election with that little performance there. Man, that was embarrassing.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think what Sen McCain is saying is that FBI should investigate if Hillary Clinton colluded with the Russians to hurt her own campaign. OK.
She is a devious monster. From the beginning, her aim was to get Trump elected so that he could be unfairly impeached, imprisoned and unable to play golf.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [42 favorites]
She is a devious monster. From the beginning, her aim was to get Trump elected so that he could be unfairly impeached, imprisoned and unable to play golf.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [42 favorites]
McCain's questioning is a joke. He's equating the investigation of Clinton's emails to Pussy grabber's possible collusion with Russia.
McCain was totally stumbling over and flopping around a kind of valid point, oh and totally misrepresenting it in the worst possible light. The investigation into Russian involvement in the 2016 presidential election involved both political parties because it was about the whole election, therefore [the] Clinton [campaign] should still technically be under investigation as well as the Pussy Grabber campaign, transition team, and administration.
posted by carsonb at 9:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
McCain was totally stumbling over and flopping around a kind of valid point, oh and totally misrepresenting it in the worst possible light. The investigation into Russian involvement in the 2016 presidential election involved both political parties because it was about the whole election, therefore [the] Clinton [campaign] should still technically be under investigation as well as the Pussy Grabber campaign, transition team, and administration.
posted by carsonb at 9:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I need to see a video clip on the McCain thing.
posted by azpenguin at 9:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by azpenguin at 9:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
McCain sounds like a relative of mine with moderately-advanced Parkinsonian dementia. I haven't heard him speak in a long time, I've just read transcripts. Is this acute?
posted by Fritzle at 9:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Fritzle at 9:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Comey is smearing Team Trump, and hard, but stopping short of saying clearly and definitively that they obstructed justice or otherwise did something really awful.
Comey is pretty closely following the game plan for any public servant asked to provide evidence on a subject that gets political. He is providing clear, documented facts that form a foundation of evidence on which to have a discussion, and in this case, possible charges issued.
It is absolutely critical to his message that he be seen as a fair reporter of facts, that his evidence be credible and have as much supporting evidence and documentation as possible. He appears to have done a good job on that.
It is equally critical that he avoid drawing conclusions on any of those facts (beyond his personal ones, of course). Doing so politicizes his advice and testimony and so throws his evidence into doubt as being merely partisan.
I don't actually have a great deal of respect for Comey's judgement in many of these matters, but he's doing this exactly correctly. He's being fulsome and forthright. He's providing as much corroborating evidence as he can. this is what professionalism looks like in a public servant giving difficult evidence in a politically-charged forum.
posted by bonehead at 9:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [66 favorites]
Comey is pretty closely following the game plan for any public servant asked to provide evidence on a subject that gets political. He is providing clear, documented facts that form a foundation of evidence on which to have a discussion, and in this case, possible charges issued.
It is absolutely critical to his message that he be seen as a fair reporter of facts, that his evidence be credible and have as much supporting evidence and documentation as possible. He appears to have done a good job on that.
It is equally critical that he avoid drawing conclusions on any of those facts (beyond his personal ones, of course). Doing so politicizes his advice and testimony and so throws his evidence into doubt as being merely partisan.
I don't actually have a great deal of respect for Comey's judgement in many of these matters, but he's doing this exactly correctly. He's being fulsome and forthright. He's providing as much corroborating evidence as he can. this is what professionalism looks like in a public servant giving difficult evidence in a politically-charged forum.
posted by bonehead at 9:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [66 favorites]
I have several library patrons who exhibit behavior like McCain just did. They tend to hold a single thought, no matter how illogical, and are only interested in chasing it down. The most telling thing, to me, was the look McCain gave when he was told his time was up. That half surprised, half Oh Well look. That's not a great sign - it demonstrates unawareness that something is wrong, but a resignation that everything is different somehow.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
Sen. Cornyn: If you want an investigation to go away wouldn't firing the FBI director be a bad way to do that?
Are we still pretending like Trump is competent? The most obvious thing about this is that Trump is totally terrible at covering things up. I'm 1000x more convinced that he's bungling the cover up in ways that are unethical or illegal than I am that he's covering anything real up.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Are we still pretending like Trump is competent? The most obvious thing about this is that Trump is totally terrible at covering things up. I'm 1000x more convinced that he's bungling the cover up in ways that are unethical or illegal than I am that he's covering anything real up.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
azpenguin: "I need to see a video clip on the McCain thing."
Yeah, I bet you slow down for car crashes, too, you monster.
posted by boo_radley at 9:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
Yeah, I bet you slow down for car crashes, too, you monster.
posted by boo_radley at 9:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
Well, he is my senator; I've been following the thread & twitter since I can't watch the hearing. Everything just blew up.
posted by azpenguin at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well if that's the state of McCain's mind these days, it goes a long way to explaining his characteristic one-two punch the last few months of "I'm deeply troubled by everything Trump is doing"/"I'm voting for everything Trump wants".
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
it demonstrates unawareness that something is wrong, but a resignation that everything is different somehow.
the republican party in a nutshell
posted by entropicamericana at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
the republican party in a nutshell
posted by entropicamericana at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
At this point I'm convinced that McCain's "but but Hillary" line of questions was solely to provide Fox News with material.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
McCain might not be senile. He might have gotten sloshed before hand.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
You need to see video of McCain. He was incoherent enough that a text summary would be difficult. He was tripping over his words, used the phrase "President Comey" at least twice, and had seemed to have placed the Clinton email server investigation and the Russian-election-involvement investigation into a blender in his brain.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
In regards to Obstruction of Justice, is "Trump just didn't understand what he was doing" a valid legal defense? Like can you be not guilty of a crime you committed just because you're a dumbass? That seems unlikely but IANAL.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's a gallery of other senators' faces as McCain spoke.
Rubio is the best here.
posted by drezdn at 9:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Rubio is the best here.
posted by drezdn at 9:49 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
WIthout spinal fluid the brain eventually dies.
posted by Artw at 9:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [99 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [99 favorites]
Now that the hearing is over, some great stuff from Twitter:
EvanMcMullin: Interesting to watch some Republican senators challenge James Comey more in seven minutes than they have Donald Trump in nearly two years.posted by corb at 9:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [87 favorites]
Ana Navarro: Let's be real - there's a big difference between u and me "hoping" something, and your boss, the President of the United States, "hoping"
Rick Wilson: Coded: "Release the Kraken, FBI colleagues"
Mindy Finn: It's a he-said, she-said. Americans may trust the career law enforcement officer or the oft-sued immoral huckster who preys on the vulnerable.
Sen. Cornyn: If you want an investigation to go away wouldn't firing the FBI director be a bad way to do that?
I immediately thought, "Why do you want to bring up your party's most ignominious President right now?"
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I immediately thought, "Why do you want to bring up your party's most ignominious President right now?"
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wow, yeah, looks like Arizona might be electing two Senators next year.
posted by Etrigan at 9:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 9:50 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
McCain was totally stumbling over and flopping around a kind of valid point, oh and totally misrepresenting it in the worst possible light. The investigation into Russian involvement in the 2016 presidential election involved both political parties because it was about the whole election, therefore [the] Clinton [campaign] should still technically be under investigation as well as the Pussy Grabber campaign, transition team, and administration.
Except this is a complete misunderstanding of what Comey was saying. He never said that Clinton's campaign had been exonerated in the ongoing Russia investigation. He said that the investigation into whether or not her email server was criminal was closed. That investigation had nothing to do with the current Russia investigation.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:51 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Except this is a complete misunderstanding of what Comey was saying. He never said that Clinton's campaign had been exonerated in the ongoing Russia investigation. He said that the investigation into whether or not her email server was criminal was closed. That investigation had nothing to do with the current Russia investigation.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:51 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Rubio is the best here.
He looks like the villain in an 80s high school movie who is stuck in detention after being outsmarted by the hero.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:51 AM on June 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
He looks like the villain in an 80s high school movie who is stuck in detention after being outsmarted by the hero.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:51 AM on June 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
Sen. Cornyn: If you want an investigation to go away wouldn't firing the FBI director be a bad way to do that?
Fortunately, neither success nor wisdom is a prerequisite for obstruction of justice. It doesn't have to be a smart attempt to subvert the investigation, just an attempt.
And, yes, it is a fantastically stupid way to do it. Which is pretty much par for the course these days.
posted by jackbishop at 9:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fortunately, neither success nor wisdom is a prerequisite for obstruction of justice. It doesn't have to be a smart attempt to subvert the investigation, just an attempt.
And, yes, it is a fantastically stupid way to do it. Which is pretty much par for the course these days.
posted by jackbishop at 9:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
John McCain: "President Comey, didjaever really look at your hand? I mean, *hic* just looook at it?"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
seemed to have placed the Clinton email server investigation and the Russian-election-involvement investigation into a blender in his brain
Yup, he thought it was all one investigation, and Comey closed it for Clinton but not for Trump.
posted by diogenes at 9:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yup, he thought it was all one investigation, and Comey closed it for Clinton but not for Trump.
posted by diogenes at 9:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
On PBS, David Rivkin is trying to handwave the testimony away by attributing it to "bad chemistry" between Trump and Comey. Claims that Comey is making "the worst possible interpretation" of the Flynn investigation conversation. Bob Bauer is having none of that.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Do you think McCain is worried or troubled about his performance today?
posted by drezdn at 9:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 9:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
In regards to Obstruction of Justice, is "Trump just didn't understand what he was doing" a valid legal defense?
IANAL. I believe intent is relevant - but it doesn't need to be "I know that doing X will obstruct justice and I will do it anyway."
Obstruction includes things like "took a swing at the cop who was serving the search warrant." The act was done with deliberate intent, and it had the likely result of obstruction - that's the level of "intent" involved here.
"I fired him because I wanted this investigation to go away" seems to fall solidly in that range, even if the intent wasn't provably, "I thought if I fired him that it would stop because he's in charge of it."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
IANAL. I believe intent is relevant - but it doesn't need to be "I know that doing X will obstruct justice and I will do it anyway."
Obstruction includes things like "took a swing at the cop who was serving the search warrant." The act was done with deliberate intent, and it had the likely result of obstruction - that's the level of "intent" involved here.
"I fired him because I wanted this investigation to go away" seems to fall solidly in that range, even if the intent wasn't provably, "I thought if I fired him that it would stop because he's in charge of it."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is McCain conscious of his performance today, might be the more pertinent question.
posted by bonehead at 9:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 9:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
This link should take you to a clip of just John McCain's whatever that was [8 minutes].
posted by zachlipton at 9:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
It is equally critical that he avoid drawing conclusions on any of those facts (beyond his personal ones, of course).
yeah, bonehead, I dialed back my original comment a bit. I realize he can't adjudicate guilt/innocence but I do wish he had been more clear about how he interpreted the intent of Trump's words. I'm also really surprised at how he brushed off the impact of firing the FBI director.
I used to be a reporter; I guess I was hoping for a really strong and clear statement that will drive headlines. 'Meddlesome priest' is a little too long and obscure for the typical news consumer.
posted by martin q blank at 9:57 AM on June 8, 2017
yeah, bonehead, I dialed back my original comment a bit. I realize he can't adjudicate guilt/innocence but I do wish he had been more clear about how he interpreted the intent of Trump's words. I'm also really surprised at how he brushed off the impact of firing the FBI director.
I used to be a reporter; I guess I was hoping for a really strong and clear statement that will drive headlines. 'Meddlesome priest' is a little too long and obscure for the typical news consumer.
posted by martin q blank at 9:57 AM on June 8, 2017
Is McCain conscious of his performance today, might be the more pertinent question.
posted by jammer at 9:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by jammer at 9:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
The Onion: Trump Asks Entire Senate To Clear Out Of Chamber So He Can Speak To Comey Alone
The Onion is a satirical publication
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [65 favorites]
The Onion is a satirical publication
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [65 favorites]
Do you think McCain is worried or troubled about his performance today?
He'll have to get a handle on 'today' first.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
He'll have to get a handle on 'today' first.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:57 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
So you know the other day we were saying McCain had just been re-elected so would be around for a good long while? I'm guessing not.
posted by Artw at 9:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
I was genuinely impressed with Comey here. Professional, completely non-partisan, always on point but nonetheless never failed to stress the importance of the implications of the Russian interference. A++++ would watch on livestream during work hours again.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
i think mccain is probably rocking in his office's barcalounger, watching matlock and eating some werther's candies.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 9:59 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
My favorite part is when asked about the calls not in his written account, Comey described one of them as:
He called me to touch base and also to say he'd thought more about the "salacious material" from the Jan 6 briefing, and he was convinced it could not have happened.
ten bucks says he gave the germaphobe excuse as the "could not" justification as opposed to having a functional human soul / impulse control
also here are my notes and setup for the briefing. chat was great!
posted by skrozidile at 10:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
He called me to touch base and also to say he'd thought more about the "salacious material" from the Jan 6 briefing, and he was convinced it could not have happened.
ten bucks says he gave the germaphobe excuse as the "could not" justification as opposed to having a functional human soul / impulse control
also here are my notes and setup for the briefing. chat was great!
posted by skrozidile at 10:00 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Comey just agreed that this NYT story, Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence is "almost entirely wrong."
I missed that. That's huge. Who was doing the questioning and what was the context?
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I missed that. That's huge. Who was doing the questioning and what was the context?
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Old Man Yells At Failure To Dispel Cloud
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
Wow, yeah, looks like Arizona might be electing two Senators next year.
When Strom Thurmond was in his late 90s the GOP would literally wheel him out to the Senate floor and prompt him on how to vote. McCain isn't leaving unless McCain wants to leave, and do you really think John McCain wants to retreat into private life where he isn't important?
posted by mightygodking at 10:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
When Strom Thurmond was in his late 90s the GOP would literally wheel him out to the Senate floor and prompt him on how to vote. McCain isn't leaving unless McCain wants to leave, and do you really think John McCain wants to retreat into private life where he isn't important?
posted by mightygodking at 10:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
"He said that the investigation into whether or not her email server was criminal was closed. That investigation had nothing to do with the current Russia investigation."
My read of his intended point was that Comey was willing to close the Clinton email investigation, but not willing to close the Trump/Russia investigation. That doesn't stand up to the tiniest bit of informed scrutiny -- but to the uninformed base, it would be persuasive. That's how they feel already.
But McCain was terribly incoherent, so it sounded like complete gibberish and Comey didn't understand the questions at all.
I do think that McCain was showing some cognitive difficulties, but I suspect that someone had outlined to him an argument to make, or he came up with it himself, but was completely unprepared to actually make that argument and/or his cognitive difficulties just twisted him all up.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
My read of his intended point was that Comey was willing to close the Clinton email investigation, but not willing to close the Trump/Russia investigation. That doesn't stand up to the tiniest bit of informed scrutiny -- but to the uninformed base, it would be persuasive. That's how they feel already.
But McCain was terribly incoherent, so it sounded like complete gibberish and Comey didn't understand the questions at all.
I do think that McCain was showing some cognitive difficulties, but I suspect that someone had outlined to him an argument to make, or he came up with it himself, but was completely unprepared to actually make that argument and/or his cognitive difficulties just twisted him all up.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I kind of feel like for years the Republicans have been implementing a careful machine plan to take over local/state/national government and right when they reached their pinnacle, they accidentally let Trump end up at the head of the thing.
posted by drezdn at 10:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 10:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
i think mccain is probably rocking in his office's barcalounger, watching matlock and eating some werther's candies.
Honestly, this sounds like a pretty good plan for my own afternoon
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
Honestly, this sounds like a pretty good plan for my own afternoon
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:07 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
alright here you go
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
i think mccain is probably rocking in his office's barcalounger, watching matlock and eating some werther's candies.
Honestly, this sounds like a pretty good plan for my own afternoon
what's wrong with werther's? I love 'em!
posted by numaner at 10:09 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was listening in my car and it sounded like McCain was attempting to make an argument that the Clinton campaign colluded with the Russian government too, and that it was unfair (a "double-standard") that she wasn't under investigation while Trump is.
But then again, I was sitting in traffic saying out loud to myself "what the fuck are you talking about?" because it was so nonsensical.
posted by gucci mane at 10:10 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
But then again, I was sitting in traffic saying out loud to myself "what the fuck are you talking about?" because it was so nonsensical.
posted by gucci mane at 10:10 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
...they accidentally let Trump end up at the head of the thing.
Astute observation, and I agree 100%. But it wasn't so much accidentally letting him become the head, it was that they left all that delicious ripened corn standing in the field for an expert produce rustler to swoop in and take it for himself. This is what Trump has done his whole life: skim off the product of others' work. That's what many of their gods, the Job Creatorz™, do. It's ironic. #notinthealanismorissetteway
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Astute observation, and I agree 100%. But it wasn't so much accidentally letting him become the head, it was that they left all that delicious ripened corn standing in the field for an expert produce rustler to swoop in and take it for himself. This is what Trump has done his whole life: skim off the product of others' work. That's what many of their gods, the Job Creatorz™, do. It's ironic. #notinthealanismorissetteway
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Just watched the clip. Good god. McCain, retire and go enjoy the weather in Sedona while you still can.
posted by azpenguin at 10:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 10:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Comey just agreed that this NYT story, Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence is "almost entirely wrong."
I missed that. That's huge. Who was doing the questioning and what was the context?
It was Cotton's question. That's almost verbatim between him and Comey. But that's a very specific phrasing, which Comey could accurately deny with an "almost", so at least one had repeated contacts with Russian Intelligence.
posted by numaner at 10:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Given McCain's performance, i have serious concerns about his ability to function as a senator full stop. His line of questioning was clearly a botched hatchet job but I've come to expect that kind of rhetoric from McCain. His mental acuity seems to suggest something much more problematic. I hope he gets help & if that if he isn't fit to serve, that he receives honest counsel to step down.
On the other hand, the same could be said of Trump & clearly that ain't happening. :(
posted by narwhal at 10:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
On the other hand, the same could be said of Trump & clearly that ain't happening. :(
posted by narwhal at 10:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Full Frontal with Samantha Bee: "Sir, don't you agree that it would make more sense if we switch ears". [photo of splitscreen of Rubio and Comey]
posted by numaner at 10:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by numaner at 10:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm going to put my devil's advocate hat on for a second and guess that maybe McCain was uncomfortable with what he was being asked to do, didn't quite have the balls to refuse, so it came out as awkward and confusing.
Like he knows that what he's doing is wrong but he used to be a better at hiding it.
posted by VTX at 10:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Like he knows that what he's doing is wrong but he used to be a better at hiding it.
posted by VTX at 10:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I believe it was Cotton who used the phrase "almost entirely wrong," and Comey's characterization was that it was wrong "in the main."
posted by solotoro at 10:21 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by solotoro at 10:21 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Matt Yglesias: "The classified briefing is just Comey and the Senators gathered around an iPad watching the pee tape."
posted by numaner at 10:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by numaner at 10:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [31 favorites]
Shorter and more concise version of McCain's performance today
posted by palomar at 10:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by palomar at 10:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm going to put my devil's advocate hat on for a second and guess that maybe McCain was uncomfortable with what he was being asked to do, didn't quite have the balls to refuse, so it came out as awkward and confusing.
Yes, but if that was true, he would have ended the session by launching into a somersault and a grin a la Willy Wonka. But no... he was clearly confused when time was up.
posted by mochapickle at 10:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, but if that was true, he would have ended the session by launching into a somersault and a grin a la Willy Wonka. But no... he was clearly confused when time was up.
posted by mochapickle at 10:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
> McCain was uncomfortable with what he was being asked to do
Asked ... by who? Is there a John McCain pee tape as well? Why would a just-reelected Senator stoop to doing something he was so uncomfortable with, like this?
No, I think it's just John McCain being John McCain.
See also: Sarah Palin, and the Chelsea Clinton slur.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Asked ... by who? Is there a John McCain pee tape as well? Why would a just-reelected Senator stoop to doing something he was so uncomfortable with, like this?
No, I think it's just John McCain being John McCain.
See also: Sarah Palin, and the Chelsea Clinton slur.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
The question McCain's [whatever that was] was dancing around, but didn't ask, was why Comey sought fit to go into great detail on Clinton's emails, but never mentioned investigating the Trump campaign during the election.
posted by zachlipton at 10:24 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 10:24 AM on June 8, 2017
On the other hand, the same could be said of Trump & clearly that ain't happening. :(
As lifespans keep increasing, we're going to have to have serious conversations about how to handle leaders that may no longer have the mental sharpness required for their position.
posted by drezdn at 10:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [36 favorites]
Top picture on /r/AccidentalRenaissance right now.
posted by bonehead at 10:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [69 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 10:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [69 favorites]
Sheesh. MSNBC has Greta Van Sustren on and she's calling it a "tie" because Trump's words are just words and somehow there's no corroboration of Comey's interpretation of them. UGH.
(Turns off TV.)
posted by dnash at 10:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
(Turns off TV.)
posted by dnash at 10:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Please stop calling this 'Comey After Dark', thank you"
posted by boo_radley at 10:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by boo_radley at 10:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
of course all the conservatives on Twitter are focusing on Comey's "leak" to his friend and to the media of his memos.
posted by numaner at 10:28 AM on June 8, 2017
posted by numaner at 10:28 AM on June 8, 2017
re: McCain
It's an older meme, but it checks out.
posted by cmfletcher at 10:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's an older meme, but it checks out.
posted by cmfletcher at 10:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
I am starting to think that there should be an age cap on government officials so that no one over 62 can be in public office.
John McCain had no more idea where he was or what was going on than my dog would've done.
posted by winna at 10:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
John McCain had no more idea where he was or what was going on than my dog would've done.
posted by winna at 10:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is supposed to be a livestream of Trump's lawyer, expected anytime now.
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was listening to Kamala Harris's questioning of Comey on the radio on the way to work, and I am so proud she's our senator. Concise, clear, letting the public know what she intends to ask Comey in closed session, and making the thrust of her concerns about Sessions clear. I thought Feinstein did fine too, but I feel more confident about the kinds of questions that will be asked in closed session thanks to Harris.
posted by yasaman at 10:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 10:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
(photo credit to Doug Mills of the NYT.)
posted by bonehead at 10:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 10:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
McCain was uncomfortable with what he was being asked to do
McCain is one of the longest serving members of the Senate. He does not face re-relection until 2022 and by that time he may be considering retirement anyways. He despises Trump. Why would he be carrying out orders? If anyone in the Senate should be doing what he sees as best, it's McCain. There is no reason for him to carry anyone's water.
posted by azpenguin at 10:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
McCain is one of the longest serving members of the Senate. He does not face re-relection until 2022 and by that time he may be considering retirement anyways. He despises Trump. Why would he be carrying out orders? If anyone in the Senate should be doing what he sees as best, it's McCain. There is no reason for him to carry anyone's water.
posted by azpenguin at 10:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm going to put my devil's advocate hat on for a second
I'm going to put my devil's prosecutor hat on for a second and go with "McCain was grasping at straws, and genuinely does not understand that the Clinton email server investigation and the Russia investigation are two different things."
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm going to put my devil's prosecutor hat on for a second and go with "McCain was grasping at straws, and genuinely does not understand that the Clinton email server investigation and the Russia investigation are two different things."
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
There is no reason for him to carry anyone's water.
Water carrying kink.
posted by Artw at 10:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Water carrying kink.
posted by Artw at 10:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Would Trump be so daft as to attempt to sue Comey for anything Comey said today? Primarily Comey calling Trump a liar.
Or would his lawyers realize that anything dug up during discovery would be most likely not good, and be able to talk him out of it.
posted by Twain Device at 10:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Or would his lawyers realize that anything dug up during discovery would be most likely not good, and be able to talk him out of it.
posted by Twain Device at 10:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I believe it was Cotton who used the phrase "almost entirely wrong," and Comey's characterization was that it was wrong "in the main.
A lot of that reporting has now been confirmed elsewhere. For instance, Reuters has essentially confirmed the headline: Trump campaign aides indeed had repeated contacts with Russian officials who were at least likely tied to Russian intelligence (like Kislyak.) "Six of the previously undisclosed contacts described to Reuters were phone calls between Sergei Kislyak, Russia's ambassador to the United States, and Trump advisers, including Flynn, Trump’s first national security adviser, three current and former officials said."
Then there's just a lot of generic background information in that article which no one disputes. Like "At one point last summer, Mr. Trump said at a campaign event that he hoped Russian intelligence services had stolen Hillary Clinton’s emails and would make them public."
So the only reporting that I think is unique to that specific article which might be "entirely wrong" is the stuff about Manafort. This sentence, basically: "The officials said that one of the advisers picked up on the calls was Paul Manafort, who was Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman for several months last year and had worked as a political consultant in Ukraine. The officials declined to identify the other Trump associates on the calls."
That article also quotes Manfort denying this somewhat hilariously: "Mr. Manafort, who has not been charged with any crimes, dismissed the officials’ accounts in a telephone interview on Tuesday. “This is absurd,” he said. “I have no idea what this is referring to. I have never knowingly spoken to Russian intelligence officers, and I have never been involved with anything to do with the Russian government or the Putin administration or any other issues under investigation today." He added, "It’s not like these people wear badges that say, ‘I’m a Russian intelligence officer.'"
So my takeaway is that probably that one sentence is not true. Apparently there is no intercepted communication between Manafort and someone who is known to be part of the Russian intelligence apparatus.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
A lot of that reporting has now been confirmed elsewhere. For instance, Reuters has essentially confirmed the headline: Trump campaign aides indeed had repeated contacts with Russian officials who were at least likely tied to Russian intelligence (like Kislyak.) "Six of the previously undisclosed contacts described to Reuters were phone calls between Sergei Kislyak, Russia's ambassador to the United States, and Trump advisers, including Flynn, Trump’s first national security adviser, three current and former officials said."
Then there's just a lot of generic background information in that article which no one disputes. Like "At one point last summer, Mr. Trump said at a campaign event that he hoped Russian intelligence services had stolen Hillary Clinton’s emails and would make them public."
So the only reporting that I think is unique to that specific article which might be "entirely wrong" is the stuff about Manafort. This sentence, basically: "The officials said that one of the advisers picked up on the calls was Paul Manafort, who was Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman for several months last year and had worked as a political consultant in Ukraine. The officials declined to identify the other Trump associates on the calls."
That article also quotes Manfort denying this somewhat hilariously: "Mr. Manafort, who has not been charged with any crimes, dismissed the officials’ accounts in a telephone interview on Tuesday. “This is absurd,” he said. “I have no idea what this is referring to. I have never knowingly spoken to Russian intelligence officers, and I have never been involved with anything to do with the Russian government or the Putin administration or any other issues under investigation today." He added, "It’s not like these people wear badges that say, ‘I’m a Russian intelligence officer.'"
So my takeaway is that probably that one sentence is not true. Apparently there is no intercepted communication between Manafort and someone who is known to be part of the Russian intelligence apparatus.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Would Trump be so daft as to attempt to sue Comey for anything Comey said today?
No one ever lost money on betting that this president would do the dumbest thing possible.
posted by Ber at 10:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
No one ever lost money on betting that this president would do the dumbest thing possible.
posted by Ber at 10:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
And no-one has ever been prosecuted for obstruction of justice on the basis of "hoping" something.
@adamliptak
For instance: Eighth Circuit affirmed an obstruction of justice enhancement based partly on an “I hope” statement http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/08/04/072601P.pdf
[screenshot of relevant section]
posted by chris24 at 10:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [68 favorites]
@adamliptak
For instance: Eighth Circuit affirmed an obstruction of justice enhancement based partly on an “I hope” statement http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/08/04/072601P.pdf
[screenshot of relevant section]
posted by chris24 at 10:42 AM on June 8, 2017 [68 favorites]
McCain is one of the longest serving members of the Senate. He does not face re-relection until 2022 and by that time he may be considering retirement anyways. He despises Trump. Why would he be carrying out orders? If anyone in the Senate should be doing what he sees as best, it's McCain. There is no reason for him to carry anyone's water.
Somehow McCain was broken about the time he ran for president, famously when he signed on to the policy of torture, after all he's been through. That was one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen in a long life of watching politics.
How he was broken, who knows? One thing is, though, that he's a known big-stakes gambler who regularly drops $10,000 ona single roll at the craps table. Matthew Yglesias in The Atlantic flat out called him a gambling addict.
posted by msalt at 10:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
Somehow McCain was broken about the time he ran for president, famously when he signed on to the policy of torture, after all he's been through. That was one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen in a long life of watching politics.
How he was broken, who knows? One thing is, though, that he's a known big-stakes gambler who regularly drops $10,000 ona single roll at the craps table. Matthew Yglesias in The Atlantic flat out called him a gambling addict.
posted by msalt at 10:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
If you want to know what Trump's lawyers are going to say, just watch Rubio's questions during the Comey testimony. He was pretty clearly parroting what they told him to say during his dinner with Trump the other day.
posted by diogenes at 10:51 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 10:51 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Comey stonewalled, and he may talk in secret, but the investigation is over. It will be decided it is counter to American security to impeach Trump, and Comey has done his best job, that is to defend his actions and appear without spot. He will come up as a Supreme replacement, and yup, it won't matter what happened in this election. They may fix some stuff that might happen in the next one, but we are toast as far as the Russia probe goes. This is my geezette analysis.
posted by Oyéah at 10:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 10:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Republicans are going to scream about the whole leaking thing, but what is actually wrong with it? A private citizen had his friend recount unclassified information about a conversation he had. There's no duty of confidentiality that stops a former official from chatting about his conversations with the President.
posted by zachlipton at 10:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm not sure which way Occam's razor cuts here, but I'm not sure I'd be so eager to write off the possibility that maybe the leverage someone has over McCain is a) significant, and b) not publicly known.
So, why exactly are we giving McCain the benefit of the doubt here that he was coerced? He's made excuses for the worst abuses of the Republican party since W's first term. He has never shown he has anything resembling a spine when it comes to standing up to his own party, least of all not since 2008. This is par for the coarse for him.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
So, why exactly are we giving McCain the benefit of the doubt here that he was coerced? He's made excuses for the worst abuses of the Republican party since W's first term. He has never shown he has anything resembling a spine when it comes to standing up to his own party, least of all not since 2008. This is par for the coarse for him.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:58 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
It has been sad to witness the decades-long decline of McCain.
In happier news, Columbia would like to offer Comey a job (Chronicle of Higher Ed):
In happier news, Columbia would like to offer Comey a job (Chronicle of Higher Ed):
During his highly anticipated testimony on Thursday before the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee, James Comey, the former director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, revealed that he had shared a memo of a conversation with President toddler with a friend with the intention that the friend share it with the news media.posted by Dashy at 11:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
That friend was Daniel Richman, a law professor at Columbia University, who subsequently confirmed to news outlets that he was the source of the memo. Mr. Richman had previously told The New York Times that Mr. Comey would "be welcomed back" to the university for his next job, and that "he knows it."
Contacted by The Chronicle on Thursday morning, Mr. Richman elaborated: "He knows he’s welcome to join us next year. He’s come to my class several times and is a gifted teacher. He’s also deeply thoughtful about criminal-justice and national-security issues and on ethical leadership."
McCain is brain dead. He must just be a puppet any more.
YOU'RE THE PUPPET
sorry I couldn't help it
posted by numaner at 11:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
YOU'RE THE PUPPET
sorry I couldn't help it
posted by numaner at 11:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Brian Williams on @MSNBC says a source tells him and @NicolleDWallace they're not sure Trump knew there were Americans stationed in Qatar.
Sigh. Called it. Wish I hadn't.
posted by martin q blank at 11:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Sigh. Called it. Wish I hadn't.
posted by martin q blank at 11:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Would Trump be so daft as to attempt to sue Comey for anything Comey said today? Primarily Comey calling Trump a liar.
Or would his lawyers realize that anything dug up during discovery would be most likely not good, and be able to talk him out of it.
Last I heard, Trump's having a hard time finding lawyers willing to work for him. It may not matter how much he wants to sue Comey; he may not be able to throw money at someone with a law degree and insist "make with the prosecution already." Especially since "ability to pay" was cited as one of the concerns law firms have.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Or would his lawyers realize that anything dug up during discovery would be most likely not good, and be able to talk him out of it.
Last I heard, Trump's having a hard time finding lawyers willing to work for him. It may not matter how much he wants to sue Comey; he may not be able to throw money at someone with a law degree and insist "make with the prosecution already." Especially since "ability to pay" was cited as one of the concerns law firms have.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:02 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
This McCain clip is nuts
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
MCCAIN: President Comey, you said you had chicken for dinner last night?[fake]
COMEY: Yes, that's correct
MCCAIN: But in this testimony today, you also described having a salad for lunch. What could believe you to lead that these are not double standard?
COMEY: Senator, under differing meal circumstances, we made choices at the FBI -
MCCAIN: I understand, but you brought charges for no Senator Clinton with chicken? But salad, for to be done complete to investigate? To conclude the Mr. Comey, no Trump, the one candidate you're done to.
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
The Kasowitz statement is now a half hour and change late. I'm picturing him sitting with Donald, hammering out the details. This is a good fantasy.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
> So, why exactly are we giving McCain the benefit of the doubt here that he was coerced?
And if we are giving him the "benefit" of doubt, is that really better? On the one hand, he's an unrepentant asshole. On the other hand, he's a blackmailed Russian patsy - as a sitting Senator with access to classified intelligence, he'd be an imminent threat to the country. I don't think that's really a better outcome?
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
And if we are giving him the "benefit" of doubt, is that really better? On the one hand, he's an unrepentant asshole. On the other hand, he's a blackmailed Russian patsy - as a sitting Senator with access to classified intelligence, he'd be an imminent threat to the country. I don't think that's really a better outcome?
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
A while back, Rep. Maxine Waters said Comey had no credibility (but still considered Comey's firing "an outrage and unacceptable"). I would like a deeper understanding of reasons to doubt Comey's credibility in order to properly understand his testimony.
In-progress transcript from the Federal News Service.
What moved Comey the most, as I saw: talking about the need to defend US elections from foreign interference. I was also struck by his statement that it's important that we follow the process of investigating these matters properly, that kids see that we are a functioning adult democracy. Comey was born in 1960 so he was a youngster during Watergate -- I wonder if he's thinking about his past self watching those hearings with his parents.
posted by brainwane at 11:05 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
In-progress transcript from the Federal News Service.
What moved Comey the most, as I saw: talking about the need to defend US elections from foreign interference. I was also struck by his statement that it's important that we follow the process of investigating these matters properly, that kids see that we are a functioning adult democracy. Comey was born in 1960 so he was a youngster during Watergate -- I wonder if he's thinking about his past self watching those hearings with his parents.
posted by brainwane at 11:05 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
From the forthcoming Kasowitz statement. “The President also never told Mr. Comey, ‘I need loyalty, I expect loyalty’ in form or substance."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
If Trump is going to claim he never said this, clearly there are no tapes, or at least no tape of that, or they destroyed the tape.
posted by zachlipton at 11:11 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:11 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Predisent"??? wow
posted by Namlit at 11:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by Namlit at 11:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
This is something that really bothers me about the GOP. There are certainly some republican reps that, in their heart of hearts, really are principled, moderate conservatives. And yet, none of them ever do anything about it, no one breaks ranks, and it's incredibly rare for them to contradict the party line in public.
In every instance where a GOP representative should not be carrying water for the party and every incentive is for them not to, they do it anyway, every fucking time. It's certainly possible that "gravely concerned" John McCain is all an act and he's an evil fucker like the rest of them but I'm not convinced that that assessment could possible apply to all of them.
In any case, they all act like they're evil fuckers so I'll act like they are until proven otherwise. I just wouldn't be surprised if McCain was pressured into asking those questions and he did just because he's a well trained little GOP stooge and/or there is some kind of leverage and he lacks the mental acuity to make his conscience shut up anymore.
Intent counts for shit but there is maybe a thread to tug on to get someone like McCain to flip (I don't know if I think it will be "flip" in the context of a criminal investigation or succumbing to public pressure to impeach or something else).
posted by VTX at 11:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
In every instance where a GOP representative should not be carrying water for the party and every incentive is for them not to, they do it anyway, every fucking time. It's certainly possible that "gravely concerned" John McCain is all an act and he's an evil fucker like the rest of them but I'm not convinced that that assessment could possible apply to all of them.
In any case, they all act like they're evil fuckers so I'll act like they are until proven otherwise. I just wouldn't be surprised if McCain was pressured into asking those questions and he did just because he's a well trained little GOP stooge and/or there is some kind of leverage and he lacks the mental acuity to make his conscience shut up anymore.
Intent counts for shit but there is maybe a thread to tug on to get someone like McCain to flip (I don't know if I think it will be "flip" in the context of a criminal investigation or succumbing to public pressure to impeach or something else).
posted by VTX at 11:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
If Trump is going to claim he never said this, clearly there are no tapes.
More likely his lawyer will deny he said it, then Trump will release the tapes showing he said it.
posted by dng at 11:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
More likely his lawyer will deny he said it, then Trump will release the tapes showing he said it.
posted by dng at 11:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
There's a lot today and obviously some stuff is gonna get lost in the shuffle but it should be noted that Ray Blunt looks like how Warner Bros. would draw a politician in order to signal his untrustworthiness to young children.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 11:13 AM on June 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
If Trump is going to claim he never said this, clearly there are no tapes, or at least no tape of that, or they destroyed the tape.
Trump's Razor says - that would be a catastrophically stupid thing to do otherwise, so don't be so sure.
posted by Devonian at 11:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump's Razor says - that would be a catastrophically stupid thing to do otherwise, so don't be so sure.
posted by Devonian at 11:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
After watching McCain, it seems weird to me that people would think of that performance as him as being an unrepentant asshole or coerced patsy. Nobody coerced him to say "President Comey." Though whatever that was tended toward assholery, it seemed to stem from confusion about the basic events of the past two years. Do people think this is some nth-dimensional chess where he's strategically pretending that he has no clue what's going on? I can't see how that could benefit anyone. I don't see how there's any plausible explanation other than him being mentally unfit to do his job.
posted by vathek at 11:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by vathek at 11:14 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
That statement was Trump-esque rambling and deflection. I'd bet that Trump told Kasowitz what to say and he eventually just said, fine, whatever. They're trying to discredit Comey and create a he-said, he-said narrative.
posted by azpenguin at 11:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 11:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
In any case, they all act like they're evil fuckers so I'll act like they are until proven otherwise. I just wouldn't be surprised if McCain was pressured into asking those questions and he did just because he's a well trained little GOP stooge and/or there is some kind of leverage and he lacks the mental acuity to make his conscience shut up anymore.
Here's another scenario: McCain has been explaining away and dismissing the worst shit his party gets up to for the past 17 years now. He does this completely unprompted. Today, he attempted to do it again, and was really, really bad at it.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Here's another scenario: McCain has been explaining away and dismissing the worst shit his party gets up to for the past 17 years now. He does this completely unprompted. Today, he attempted to do it again, and was really, really bad at it.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
There are certainly some republican reps that, in their heart of hearts, really are principled, moderate conservatives.
With the possible exception of Evan McMullin, the rest of your comment is strong evidence to the contrary.
posted by Roommate at 11:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
With the possible exception of Evan McMullin, the rest of your comment is strong evidence to the contrary.
posted by Roommate at 11:15 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I would like a deeper understanding of reasons to doubt Comey's credibility in order to properly understand his testimony.
I had a staff member who had made mistake after mistake even though they were not a bad person, but I should have fired months ago. Then I asked the staff member to go steal a document from my boss and they refused, so I fired them, I would be in the wrong, right?
posted by Sophie1 at 11:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
I had a staff member who had made mistake after mistake even though they were not a bad person, but I should have fired months ago. Then I asked the staff member to go steal a document from my boss and they refused, so I fired them, I would be in the wrong, right?
posted by Sophie1 at 11:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
NYT reporter Julie Davis on Twitter: Kasowitz is mistaken re NYT stories on Comey memos. We never quoted memos prior to Trump's 5/12 tweet re tapes; 1st story doing so was 5/16
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
After watching McCain, it seems weird to me that people would think of that performance as him as being an unrepentant asshole or coerced patsy.
He was clearly trying to "but her emails" but had a stroke/just woke up from a three month nap.
posted by chris24 at 11:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
He was clearly trying to "but her emails" but had a stroke/just woke up from a three month nap.
posted by chris24 at 11:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
For real though, the 5th and 6th words of the attorney statement are "Predisent Trump."
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
And I forgot for a second that Evan McMullin doesn't actually hold elected office, so I stand corrected on the "possible exception." There are no exceptions.
posted by Roommate at 11:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Roommate at 11:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Predisent Covfefe.
I sure am learning a lot of cromulent new words this year. My vocab is embiggened.
posted by Devonian at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
I sure am learning a lot of cromulent new words this year. My vocab is embiggened.
posted by Devonian at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
Putting aside extortion, my guess is that Trump or his people have presented some vision as to what the administration will accomplish that is so appealing to Republicans in Congress, they are willing to overlook all these fires to achieve it.
posted by drezdn at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
There are certainly some republican reps that, in their heart of hearts, really are principled, moderate conservatives.
...and they've been primaried out over the last decade by less principled, farther right conservatives.
posted by Etrigan at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
...and they've been primaried out over the last decade by less principled, farther right conservatives.
posted by Etrigan at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
For real though, the 5th and 6th words of the attorney statement are "Predisent Trump".
He hires the best people.
posted by chris24 at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [31 favorites]
He hires the best people.
posted by chris24 at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [31 favorites]
I don't see how there's any plausible explanation other than him being mentally unfit to do his job.
Let's not be hasty. Look at this new footage of Senator McCain assisting the investigation.
posted by Behemoth at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Let's not be hasty. Look at this new footage of Senator McCain assisting the investigation.
posted by Behemoth at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
"What moved Comey the most, as I saw: talking about the need to defend US elections from foreign interference. "
That's what's strongly moved me from the beginning of this. It's not about Russia in particular, and it's not about the Democrat losing and the Republican winning, or even Trump winning (which is a shocking travesty regardless), but that this kind of interference was attempted, succeeded, and was and is being attempted elsewhere.
At the time, I was tremendously disappointed in Obama's response. I felt that knowing what we knew, and what we knew Obama knew, even before the election, was serious enough to warrant expulsion of all diplomats, military posturing, multilateral initiatives for extreme sanctions, etc. Later, I realized that this was a delicate situation in many different ways and that there's a reason why we all respect Obama's deliberative and careful nature and that maybe I would suck as President of the US.
But, anyway, I was and am still stunned that the majority of the American public isn't deeply alarmed and angry about this. I could have believed a tepid response from a minority of diehard GOP partisans, but for basically the entire GOP establishment and the entire GOP voting base and much of the Democratic Party establishment and voters to be blasé about this ... that just leaves me dumbfounded.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
That's what's strongly moved me from the beginning of this. It's not about Russia in particular, and it's not about the Democrat losing and the Republican winning, or even Trump winning (which is a shocking travesty regardless), but that this kind of interference was attempted, succeeded, and was and is being attempted elsewhere.
At the time, I was tremendously disappointed in Obama's response. I felt that knowing what we knew, and what we knew Obama knew, even before the election, was serious enough to warrant expulsion of all diplomats, military posturing, multilateral initiatives for extreme sanctions, etc. Later, I realized that this was a delicate situation in many different ways and that there's a reason why we all respect Obama's deliberative and careful nature and that maybe I would suck as President of the US.
But, anyway, I was and am still stunned that the majority of the American public isn't deeply alarmed and angry about this. I could have believed a tepid response from a minority of diehard GOP partisans, but for basically the entire GOP establishment and the entire GOP voting base and much of the Democratic Party establishment and voters to be blasé about this ... that just leaves me dumbfounded.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [44 favorites]
@Catherine Santos:
#JohnMcCain: So did Hillary help OJ hijack the planes and attack Pearl Harbor?
Comey: What?
John McCain: I said do you know the muffin man?!
posted by mosk at 11:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [81 favorites]
#JohnMcCain: So did Hillary help OJ hijack the planes and attack Pearl Harbor?
Comey: What?
John McCain: I said do you know the muffin man?!
posted by mosk at 11:20 AM on June 8, 2017 [81 favorites]
"Predisent"??? wow
Plausible deniability: I never said the President said or did any of this....
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:21 AM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
Plausible deniability: I never said the President said or did any of this....
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:21 AM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
I can't believe that Trump is going with straight denial against Comey. He has to know that he has no credibility. Right after denying that he asked for Comey's loyalty, the statement says that the president is entitled to the loyalty of his staff? The COUNTRY is entitled to loyalty! He doesn't understand the most basic, most fundamental premise of public service. This is why we don't run the country like a business.
posted by gladly at 11:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by gladly at 11:22 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Eighth Circuit affirmed an obstruction of justice enhancement based partly on an “I hope” statement
Something notable about Risch asking this question is just how profoundly stupid it was to take this approach. This was a prepared question, and while Risch was obviously asking it for rhetorical effect, it actually has a verifiable answer. Risch, or his staff, could have determined in advance whether or not it was true. Then the possible outcomes look like this:
1) "I hope" statements have never been considered obstruction of justice (which, as it apparently turns out, is false).
1a) Comey knows this and answers correctly. Risch's rhetorical point is made all the stronger by putting it in Comey's mouth.
1b) Comey does not know, or answers incorrectly. Risch gets to make his rhetorical point even stronger by stating it as a follow-up, making Comey look incompetent.
2) "I hope" statements have been considered obstruction (which, as it turns out, is true).
2a) Comey knows this and answers correctly. Risch looks like a fool on national TV for asking the question, and Trump looks more guilty.
2b) Comey doesn't know (this was the case, as it turned out). Risch makes a somewhat weak rhetorical point if you are prepared to accept that uncertainty to muddy the waters of Trump's guilt, but then when others check up on it afterwards he looks like an idiot to anyone still paying attention.
Risch had time to prepare his questions, and time to ask his staff to check up on that, which should have been easily accomplished by the Congressional Research Service (a function of the Library of Congress which the Republicans have cut heavily in recent years). Either he didn't bother to do so, or he's so stupid he thinks no one else would.
Either way, the fact that Risch asked this question belies a fundamental indifference to the truth. In a technical philosophical sense, Risch's question is bullshit. This, sadly, is the entire modus operandi of the modern Republican party. They are, quite literally, the party of bullshit.
posted by biogeo at 11:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [54 favorites]
Something notable about Risch asking this question is just how profoundly stupid it was to take this approach. This was a prepared question, and while Risch was obviously asking it for rhetorical effect, it actually has a verifiable answer. Risch, or his staff, could have determined in advance whether or not it was true. Then the possible outcomes look like this:
1) "I hope" statements have never been considered obstruction of justice (which, as it apparently turns out, is false).
1a) Comey knows this and answers correctly. Risch's rhetorical point is made all the stronger by putting it in Comey's mouth.
1b) Comey does not know, or answers incorrectly. Risch gets to make his rhetorical point even stronger by stating it as a follow-up, making Comey look incompetent.
2) "I hope" statements have been considered obstruction (which, as it turns out, is true).
2a) Comey knows this and answers correctly. Risch looks like a fool on national TV for asking the question, and Trump looks more guilty.
2b) Comey doesn't know (this was the case, as it turned out). Risch makes a somewhat weak rhetorical point if you are prepared to accept that uncertainty to muddy the waters of Trump's guilt, but then when others check up on it afterwards he looks like an idiot to anyone still paying attention.
Risch had time to prepare his questions, and time to ask his staff to check up on that, which should have been easily accomplished by the Congressional Research Service (a function of the Library of Congress which the Republicans have cut heavily in recent years). Either he didn't bother to do so, or he's so stupid he thinks no one else would.
Either way, the fact that Risch asked this question belies a fundamental indifference to the truth. In a technical philosophical sense, Risch's question is bullshit. This, sadly, is the entire modus operandi of the modern Republican party. They are, quite literally, the party of bullshit.
posted by biogeo at 11:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [54 favorites]
I re-watched the McCain questioning. It is possible that he was trying to make a point that perhaps we don't know whether the Russians actually hacked Clinton's private server emails as part of their election tampering campaign. It's more likely that he was hopelessly confusing the two investigations. Either way, the terrible phrasing and President Comeys, etc. are most logically explained by dementia/stroke/etc.
posted by gatorae at 11:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by gatorae at 11:23 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
The phrase "President Trump" is so unnatural and contrary to sanity that the human mind simply rebels against it, however it can.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 11:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by mrjohnmuller at 11:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
45 minutes late to release a misspelled and grammatically incorrect statement that fundamentally misrepresents statements and facts that are available to the world for review on video. Par for the course with this administration.
posted by Freon at 11:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Freon at 11:24 AM on June 8, 2017 [45 favorites]
Incidentally, if any artistically talented Mefites want to draw a political cartoon of an elephant passing the GOP mantle to a shitting bull, you can have all my internet points.
posted by biogeo at 11:27 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 11:27 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
I would imagine the whole thing was edited on the fly as Trump paced around the room screaming and ranting, Downfall-style. Good luck getting any effective proofreading done under those conditions.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:27 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:27 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
I will guarantee that Trump has asked someone in the room with him if he can prosecute Comey for leaking the memos. Maybe that's what kept the statement from releasing.
posted by gladly at 11:27 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by gladly at 11:27 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Say what you will about DJT, at least he hasn't horrifically and permanently degraded and sullied the institution of the Predisency.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:27 AM on June 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:27 AM on June 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
Actual verbatim quote from Kasowitz statement: "We will leave it the appropriate authorities to determine whether this leaks should be investigated along with all others being investigated. ."
This is in reference to Comey leaking "privileged communications" to the press. What that means is, he indirectly told the press about conversations he had with the President. Conversations which are not classified. Which is not a crime. So, I'm really glad they're going to "leave it the appropriate authorities to determine whether this leaks should be investigated". It gives me great confidence in our government. God Bless America.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
This is in reference to Comey leaking "privileged communications" to the press. What that means is, he indirectly told the press about conversations he had with the President. Conversations which are not classified. Which is not a crime. So, I'm really glad they're going to "leave it the appropriate authorities to determine whether this leaks should be investigated". It gives me great confidence in our government. God Bless America.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
For real though, the 5th and 6th words of the attorney statement are "Predisent Trump".
I think thepresident predisent and a small group of people knew exactly what he meant.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
I think the
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Republican Senators all remind me of Senator Geary from The Godfather II.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:28 AM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
@JamesUrbaniak "Today is the day Donald Trump became Predisent."
posted by drezdn at 11:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 11:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
Also from the statement - Asked how is General Flynn is doing.
posted by all about eevee at 11:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by all about eevee at 11:29 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
And yet, none of them ever do anything about it, no one breaks ranks, and it's incredibly rare for them to contradict the party line in public.Reagan's 11th Commandment: Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Republican. Seriously.
posted by xyzzy at 11:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can't believe that Trump is going with straight denial against Comey. He has to know that he has no credibility. Right after denying that he asked for Comey's loyalty, the statement says that the president is entitled to the loyalty of his staff? The COUNTRY is entitled to loyalty! He doesn't understand the most basic, most fundamental premise of public service. This is why we don't run the country like a business.
I continue to operate under the belief that this stuff is entirely for the gormless twits that make up what's left of the GOP base. THEY don't understand the basic, most fundamental premise of public service, but they'll get on Facebook or out in the comments thread on the websites of their local news providers and they'll scream about how the President deserves respect and loyalty, and shouldn't have to demand it, and blah blah blah Olympic-worthy logical twist! Don't forget to stick the landing with some egregious racism, Terrible Uncle!
I had a point, I swear. I'm so tired.
posted by palomar at 11:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
I continue to operate under the belief that this stuff is entirely for the gormless twits that make up what's left of the GOP base. THEY don't understand the basic, most fundamental premise of public service, but they'll get on Facebook or out in the comments thread on the websites of their local news providers and they'll scream about how the President deserves respect and loyalty, and shouldn't have to demand it, and blah blah blah Olympic-worthy logical twist! Don't forget to stick the landing with some egregious racism, Terrible Uncle!
I had a point, I swear. I'm so tired.
posted by palomar at 11:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Predatory, Indecent, Predisent.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
I don't understand what people find so incredulous about the idea that there might be people involved with an nefarious organization who continue to play their part in that organization even through their DEEP misgivings about their choice to do so.
Philip Jennings (the male protagonist on The Americans) has been doing exactly that for the few seasons, often in ways that put the mission at risk for a fictional example.
I get that the GOP, as a whole, is an evil organization trying to do evil shit and because of that it's attractive to paint everyone that's a part of that organization with the same brush but it's flat out wrong. There are people in there that doubt that they're doing the right thing but, for what I'm sure are a wide variety of reasons, haven't taken action.
I'm happy to hear arguments that John McCain is or is not a part of that group but don't try tell me that they don't exist. The GOP is still made of people with variety of motivations and goals. They're not all hopelessly evil, it's a spectrum, just like everything else in the world.
posted by VTX at 11:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Philip Jennings (the male protagonist on The Americans) has been doing exactly that for the few seasons, often in ways that put the mission at risk for a fictional example.
I get that the GOP, as a whole, is an evil organization trying to do evil shit and because of that it's attractive to paint everyone that's a part of that organization with the same brush but it's flat out wrong. There are people in there that doubt that they're doing the right thing but, for what I'm sure are a wide variety of reasons, haven't taken action.
I'm happy to hear arguments that John McCain is or is not a part of that group but don't try tell me that they don't exist. The GOP is still made of people with variety of motivations and goals. They're not all hopelessly evil, it's a spectrum, just like everything else in the world.
posted by VTX at 11:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Rarely is the question asked, is our predisent's personal lawyers learning?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
Writing my thinkpiece on why spelling it Predisent is a brilliant strategical move. Call me Slate.
posted by drezdn at 11:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 11:32 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump's personal lawyer is talking, an hour late. I'm like 90% sure he's Roger Stone's uncle.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Fact: prédisent is the French third-person plural form of "to predict." SEEKRIT FRENCH PEOPLE?
posted by dhens at 11:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by dhens at 11:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
So Trump is unsurprisingly going after Comey for being a leaker. This is going to get ugly.
posted by gatorae at 11:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 11:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
LOL, he paused when he saw the typo.
posted by all about eevee at 11:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by all about eevee at 11:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
You'd think at least one Republican would realize they could make their name by opposing the Trump administration.
posted by drezdn at 11:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 11:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
Between McCain's questions and Kasowitz's "Predisent" statement, I really hope the sovereign citizens are working overtime to piece some new theories together this afternoon.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 11:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm disappointed Kasowitz isn't doubling down and pronouncing it "Predisent."
"Of course that's what the word is. How dare you question us?" [fake]
posted by zachlipton at 11:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Of course that's what the word is. How dare you question us?" [fake]
posted by zachlipton at 11:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
You'd think at least one Republican would realize they could make their name by opposing the Trump administration.
Dude, Egg McMuffin is like, right there.
posted by biogeo at 11:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
Dude, Egg McMuffin is like, right there.
posted by biogeo at 11:35 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
And leaves without taking questions. What a weasel.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Pretty weak argument from Whitehouse saying :"President is not a liar". I don't think anyone believes that. Even his apologists.
posted by Liquidwolf at 11:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 11:36 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Call me Slate."
Whatever you say, Slate.
posted by komara at 11:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
Whatever you say, Slate.
posted by komara at 11:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
Kasowitz just stood in front of the press corps and said "It has now been established that the President was not being investigated for colluding with any investigation."
Maybe this was written by Trump, Maybe Trump doesn't know what the word colluding means. Everything is falling into place.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
Maybe this was written by Trump, Maybe Trump doesn't know what the word colluding means. Everything is falling into place.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:37 AM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
I don't understand what people find so incredulous about the idea that there might be people involved with an nefarious organization who continue to play their part in that organization even through their DEEP misgivings about their choice to do so.
Egg aside, I'm sure there are others who have misgivings about the administration. But their failure to do anything about, despite the power to do so, is its own kind of evil.
posted by craven_morhead at 11:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Egg aside, I'm sure there are others who have misgivings about the administration. But their failure to do anything about, despite the power to do so, is its own kind of evil.
posted by craven_morhead at 11:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
What office does Egg McMuffin hold?
posted by Artw at 11:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
> You'd think at least one Republican would realize they could make their name by opposing the Trump administration.
I've been operating under this assumption for a long-ass time but my conclusion is not that Trump is antithetical to the desires of any ambitious Congressional Republican but the the purest expression of their sincerest hopes for running the country.
posted by Tevin at 11:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I've been operating under this assumption for a long-ass time but my conclusion is not that Trump is antithetical to the desires of any ambitious Congressional Republican but the the purest expression of their sincerest hopes for running the country.
posted by Tevin at 11:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm disappointed Kasowitz isn't doubling down and pronouncing it "Predisent."
"Of course that's what the word is. How dare you question us?" [fake]
Webster's is fake dictionary
posted by Mchelly at 11:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Of course that's what the word is. How dare you question us?" [fake]
Webster's is fake dictionary
posted by Mchelly at 11:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
so later it's all gonna go KABLAMMO
Or COVFEFE
posted by zakur at 11:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Or COVFEFE
posted by zakur at 11:38 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
But their failure to do anything about, despite the power to do so, is its own kind of evil.
idk man it seems kinda banal
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
idk man it seems kinda banal
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:39 AM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
What office does Egg McMuffin hold?
I admit, it hasn't really been working out for him yet.
posted by biogeo at 11:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
I admit, it hasn't really been working out for him yet.
posted by biogeo at 11:40 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
> Kasowitz just stood in front of the press corps and said "It has now been established that the President was not being investigated for colluding with any investigation."
Interestingly, the transcript linked upthread had a slightly different wording: "It has now been established that the President was not being investigated for colluding with that investigation."
posted by christopherious at 11:41 AM on June 8, 2017
Interestingly, the transcript linked upthread had a slightly different wording: "It has now been established that the President was not being investigated for colluding with that investigation."
posted by christopherious at 11:41 AM on June 8, 2017
How can you feel vindicated by Comey's testimony and also say he's lying?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [36 favorites]
"What moved Comey the most, as I saw: talking about the need to defend US elections from foreign interference. "
That's what's strongly moved me from the beginning of this. It's not about Russia in particular, and it's not about the Democrat losing and the Republican winning, or even Trump winning (which is a shocking travesty regardless), but that this kind of interference was attempted, succeeded, and was and is being attempted elsewhere.
Yes. This. Does anyone have the ability to clip a short, sharable video of just those remarks from Comey? This is what I really want to emphasize from his testimony.
I mean, if we had President Rubio trying to roll back the ACA after a campaign which was a re-run of Romney's, I'd still be mad because my kids' health would still be in danger. I might call my Congressman. And if he bombed someone we didn't need to bomb I might have joined an anti-war march.
But I wouldn't be lying awake at night worrying about an existential threat to democracy and world peace. I wouldn't be trying to ORGANIZE marches and donating to Congressional campaigns in other states and attending town halls my Rep doesn't even show up to and spending all my waking hours glued to internet news so I still don't know what kind of hijinks the unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt got into this year. I would be living my life.
For me this is about a threat to democracy itself.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
That's what's strongly moved me from the beginning of this. It's not about Russia in particular, and it's not about the Democrat losing and the Republican winning, or even Trump winning (which is a shocking travesty regardless), but that this kind of interference was attempted, succeeded, and was and is being attempted elsewhere.
Yes. This. Does anyone have the ability to clip a short, sharable video of just those remarks from Comey? This is what I really want to emphasize from his testimony.
I mean, if we had President Rubio trying to roll back the ACA after a campaign which was a re-run of Romney's, I'd still be mad because my kids' health would still be in danger. I might call my Congressman. And if he bombed someone we didn't need to bomb I might have joined an anti-war march.
But I wouldn't be lying awake at night worrying about an existential threat to democracy and world peace. I wouldn't be trying to ORGANIZE marches and donating to Congressional campaigns in other states and attending town halls my Rep doesn't even show up to and spending all my waking hours glued to internet news so I still don't know what kind of hijinks the unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt got into this year. I would be living my life.
For me this is about a threat to democracy itself.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:41 AM on June 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
How can you feel vindicated by Comey's testimony and also say he's lying?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:41 PM on June 8 [1 favorite +] [!]
Thick rails of coke morning noon and night?
posted by Navelgazer at 11:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:41 PM on June 8 [1 favorite +] [!]
Thick rails of coke morning noon and night?
posted by Navelgazer at 11:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
I don't understand what people find so incredulous about the idea that there might be people involved with an nefarious organization who continue to play their part in that organization even through their DEEP misgivings about their choice to do so.
To take your point more seriously: I am not incredulous about this at all. This is politics in general. My impressions - that McCain was trying to go to bat for Trump and flubbed really badly - are just based on his previous behavior. Now, if he was consistently an outspoken opponent of Trump or even consistently critical of his own party, and then suddenly did this ... whatever this was we witnessed today, yes, that would trip a flag for me. It would make me wonder if someone tried to leverage something over him. And maybe that did happen, but honestly, McCain has never needed motivation to stoop as low as he can to defend the worst aspects of the Republican Party.
Now, that said, was his floundering and confusion born from cognitive dissonance beginning to break his brain? It could be. But his past behavior over the years shows us that you don't need to twist McCain's arm to get him to go to bat for GOP leadership.
How can you feel vindicated by Comey's testimony and also say he's lying?
spongebob_imagination.gif
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
To take your point more seriously: I am not incredulous about this at all. This is politics in general. My impressions - that McCain was trying to go to bat for Trump and flubbed really badly - are just based on his previous behavior. Now, if he was consistently an outspoken opponent of Trump or even consistently critical of his own party, and then suddenly did this ... whatever this was we witnessed today, yes, that would trip a flag for me. It would make me wonder if someone tried to leverage something over him. And maybe that did happen, but honestly, McCain has never needed motivation to stoop as low as he can to defend the worst aspects of the Republican Party.
Now, that said, was his floundering and confusion born from cognitive dissonance beginning to break his brain? It could be. But his past behavior over the years shows us that you don't need to twist McCain's arm to get him to go to bat for GOP leadership.
How can you feel vindicated by Comey's testimony and also say he's lying?
spongebob_imagination.gif
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Statement from McCain re: his questions this morning. "I shouldn’t stay up late watching the Diamondbacks night games"
posted by dnash at 11:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by dnash at 11:43 AM on June 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
How can you feel vindicated by Comey's testimony and also say he's lying?
I think this is why Comey said the line about how you can't cherry pick testimony. He anticipated precicely this.
posted by gatorae at 11:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think this is why Comey said the line about how you can't cherry pick testimony. He anticipated precicely this.
posted by gatorae at 11:44 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's getting to the point where when Americans say "God Bless America" I am hearing a British person say "Oh bless"
posted by srboisvert at 11:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 11:45 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
How can you feel vindicated by Comey's testimony and also say he's lying?
It's the ol' belt-and-suspenders routine--if one fails, you've got a backup already in place!
Unfortunately these particular trousers are made of bees.
posted by Mayor West at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
It's the ol' belt-and-suspenders routine--if one fails, you've got a backup already in place!
Unfortunately these particular trousers are made of bees.
posted by Mayor West at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Statement from McCain re: his questions this morning.
"What I was trying to get at was to have Comey assert a legal conclusion. I guess this went over peoples' heads."
posted by rhizome at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
"What I was trying to get at was to have Comey assert a legal conclusion. I guess this went over peoples' heads."
posted by rhizome at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
"I shouldn’t stay up late watching the Diamondbacks night games"
I mean, I see it there, but I still feel like I need a real/fake tag.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [36 favorites]
I mean, I see it there, but I still feel like I need a real/fake tag.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [36 favorites]
Even more wtf in McCain's statement: "I get the sense from Twitter that my line of questioning went over people's heads."
Like we're too dumb to understand his genius plan? C'mon now. Master class in gaslighting.
posted by marshmallow peep at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [58 favorites]
Like we're too dumb to understand his genius plan? C'mon now. Master class in gaslighting.
posted by marshmallow peep at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2017 [58 favorites]
In case anyone else needs this thought exercise:
My first tendency after the Comey testimony, despite my better judgment/prescience to the contrary, is to have a bit more despair that congressional Republicans are still nowhere near a bridge too far, and only too happy to try to lay down cover for the President's increasingly evident, indefensible crimes.
But then I remember that there is in fact still a real and ongoing investigation, and that the truth (likely) still matters as more evidence is inevitably unearthed and correlated. That today's exercise is largely political theater, with no impact on the ultimate end result.
I know that's likely an obvious thing to most people. But I keep having to tell myself that, so I thought I'd tell MeFi too.
posted by Brak at 11:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
My first tendency after the Comey testimony, despite my better judgment/prescience to the contrary, is to have a bit more despair that congressional Republicans are still nowhere near a bridge too far, and only too happy to try to lay down cover for the President's increasingly evident, indefensible crimes.
But then I remember that there is in fact still a real and ongoing investigation, and that the truth (likely) still matters as more evidence is inevitably unearthed and correlated. That today's exercise is largely political theater, with no impact on the ultimate end result.
I know that's likely an obvious thing to most people. But I keep having to tell myself that, so I thought I'd tell MeFi too.
posted by Brak at 11:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Bad, bad timing. Or maybe good timing. Why is this happening.
Putin: 'I like Senator McCain'
"Of McCain, Putin says, 'Well, honestly, I like Senator McCain to a certain extent. And I’m not joking. I like him because of his patriotism, and I can relate to his consistency in fighting for the interests of his own country.' Putin compares him to the famed Roman Senator Cato the Elder, who opposed Greek cultural influence in Rome and, Putin notes, 'always finished his speeches using the same words, "Carthage must be destroyed." The Russian leader says that stringent 'Old World' mindset he praised as patriotic also makes McCain somewhat of a tragic figure, 'reluctant to look into the future, unwilling to recognize how fast the world is changing' and unable to 'see the real threat.' "
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
Putin: 'I like Senator McCain'
"Of McCain, Putin says, 'Well, honestly, I like Senator McCain to a certain extent. And I’m not joking. I like him because of his patriotism, and I can relate to his consistency in fighting for the interests of his own country.' Putin compares him to the famed Roman Senator Cato the Elder, who opposed Greek cultural influence in Rome and, Putin notes, 'always finished his speeches using the same words, "Carthage must be destroyed." The Russian leader says that stringent 'Old World' mindset he praised as patriotic also makes McCain somewhat of a tragic figure, 'reluctant to look into the future, unwilling to recognize how fast the world is changing' and unable to 'see the real threat.' "
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
McCain is one of the longest serving members of the Senate. He does not face re-relection until 2022 and by that time he may be considering retirement anyways. He despises Trump. Why would he be carrying out orders? If anyone in the Senate should be doing what he sees as best, it's McCain. There is no reason for him to carry anyone's water.
One of the more unnoticed news stories of 2008 was that McCaine spent his 70th birthday on a mega-yacht in the Adriatic with Paul Manafort and Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch with ties to both organized crime and Putin, and who was funding Montenegro's independence bid so Russia could get another base in the Mediterranean. [real]
The GOP is rotten from trunk to tail.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [130 favorites]
One of the more unnoticed news stories of 2008 was that McCaine spent his 70th birthday on a mega-yacht in the Adriatic with Paul Manafort and Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch with ties to both organized crime and Putin, and who was funding Montenegro's independence bid so Russia could get another base in the Mediterranean. [real]
The GOP is rotten from trunk to tail.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [130 favorites]
"I shouldn’t stay up late watching the Diamondbacks night games"
It would have been hilarious if the D'backs didn't play last night/played a day game.
posted by drezdn at 11:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
It would have been hilarious if the D'backs didn't play last night/played a day game.
posted by drezdn at 11:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Uh, isn't Comey not allowed to assert a legal conclusion? Like, I am not a lawyer, but I know enough to know that if I was opposing counsel, I'd be objecting. It's not the witness's place to be making legal conclusions. There's a whole "calls for a legal conclusion" objection.
posted by yasaman at 11:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 11:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
It is the people's heads that are wrong!
posted by Artw at 11:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:48 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Principal Skinner taught McCain everything he knows.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:51 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:51 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's not a judicial proceeding, so Comey's allowed to assert whatever. It would just be stupid for him to do so, and it's stupid for McCain to ask for it.
posted by biogeo at 11:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 11:52 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
The 2-minute video in this tweet is Comey passionate about the need to defend US elections from Russian interference. My own hurried transcription of the last ~minute:
The reason this is such a big deal: we have this big messy wonderful country where we fight with each other all the time. But nobody tells us what to think, what to fight about, what to vote for except other Americans. And that's wonderful and often painful. But we're talking about a foreign government that, using technical intrusion and lots of other methods, tried to shape the way we think, we vote, we act. That is a BIG deal. And people need to recognize it. It's not about Republicans or Democrats. They're coming after America, which I hope we all love equally.posted by brainwane at 11:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [54 favorites]
They wanna undermine our credibility in the face of the world. They think that this great experiment of ours is a threat to them, and so they're gonna try to run it down and dirty it up as much as possible. That's what this is about. And they will be back, because we remain, as, as difficult as we can be with each other, we remain that shining city on the hill. And they don't like it.
I'm sorry to repost a tweet, and only a tweet, but this is just really good.
@JenniferJJacobs
Awkward scene as Kasowitz tried to escape with no press questions: He and aides stood in elevator staring at us. Forgot to push down button.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [82 favorites]
@JenniferJJacobs
Awkward scene as Kasowitz tried to escape with no press questions: He and aides stood in elevator staring at us. Forgot to push down button.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:53 AM on June 8, 2017 [82 favorites]
If Trump never asked for loyalty, never "hoped" re Flynn, what DID he need to clear the room to discuss with Comey?
posted by smb0626 at 11:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by smb0626 at 11:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
"I get the sense from Twitter that my line of questioning today went over people's heads."
It's true, I don't speak Gibberish.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's true, I don't speak Gibberish.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
He and aides stood in elevator staring at us. Forgot to push down button.
The best people!
posted by drezdn at 11:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
The best people!
posted by drezdn at 11:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
Paul Ryan on Comey saying White House lied after his firing:"I think there's going to be a 'he said, he said' thing"
It's a shame the founding fathers didn't think to include a co-equal branch of government that could investigate these cases further to discover evidence in the hopes of finding the truth.
Ah well, let's try to get that in the next time around.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
It's a shame the founding fathers didn't think to include a co-equal branch of government that could investigate these cases further to discover evidence in the hopes of finding the truth.
Ah well, let's try to get that in the next time around.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:56 AM on June 8, 2017 [53 favorites]
Phillip Bump at the Post has Team Trump’s official response to the Comey testimony — now, with context
posted by zachlipton at 12:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
One of the more unnoticed news stories of 2008 was that McCaine spent his 70th birthday on a mega-yacht in the Adriatic with Paul Manafort and Oleg Deripaska
McCain's campaign manager was (and might still be?) the other partner in their consulting firm, which was already engaged in shady stuff before the 2008 campaign began.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
McCain's campaign manager was (and might still be?) the other partner in their consulting firm, which was already engaged in shady stuff before the 2008 campaign began.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Awkward scene as Kasowitz tried to escape with no press questions: He and aides stood in elevator staring at us. Forgot to push down button.
He didn't move, speak, change his facial expression, or press the "door close" button in any way during the awkward silence that followed.
posted by Roommate at 12:01 PM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
He didn't move, speak, change his facial expression, or press the "door close" button in any way during the awkward silence that followed.
posted by Roommate at 12:01 PM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
I bet Bill Clinton would have liked to have known that he could just categorize his own obstruction of justice as merely "he said, she said". Who knew the GOP would accept that as a valid explanation? That and being bad at your job. But hey, if the President can be bad at his job and still be considered competent, then that excuses all of them on the same merits.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:02 PM on June 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 12:02 PM on June 8, 2017 [19 favorites]
Surely thus..
posted by rainy at 12:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rainy at 12:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Kevin Schaul and Samuel Granados, WaPo: How cable news networks reacted to Comey’s hearing
MSNBC
COMEY: TRUMP LIED ABOUT REASONS FOR FIRING
CNN
COMEY: "SURE" SPECIAL COUNSEL LOOKING AT OBSTRUCTION
FOX
AWAITING STATEMENT FROM PRES TRUMP'S OUTSIDE ATTY
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [31 favorites]
COMEY: TRUMP LIED ABOUT REASONS FOR FIRING
CNN
COMEY: "SURE" SPECIAL COUNSEL LOOKING AT OBSTRUCTION
FOX
AWAITING STATEMENT FROM PRES TRUMP'S OUTSIDE ATTY
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [31 favorites]
"I think there's going to be a 'he said, he said' thing"
Who are you going to trust, the recently fired top federal investigator, or the man who fired him, who Speaker Ryan said he was not going to defend, "not now, not in the future"?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Who are you going to trust, the recently fired top federal investigator, or the man who fired him, who Speaker Ryan said he was not going to defend, "not now, not in the future"?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
Who knew the GOP would accept that as a valid explanation? That and being bad at your job.
"You perjured yourself on the stand!"
"But I didn't know you're not supposed to do that."
"Oh, you didn't? OK then, never mind."
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 12:06 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
"You perjured yourself on the stand!"
"But I didn't know you're not supposed to do that."
"Oh, you didn't? OK then, never mind."
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 12:06 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Uh, isn't Comey not allowed to assert a legal conclusion?
One the things I found interesting watching Comey's testimony is the way that this kind of thing was clearly running through his internal monologue while he answered questions.
You could almost hear him thinking, "Ah, they're asking X. Well yes, that is exactly correct but it's not my place to make that assessment so I will refuse to make it."
Same thing for the classified stuff, questions about his opinion (objection, relevance?!), and even his understanding of the facts. We know what Trump was asking for when he made the "I hope" statement, Comey knows, but it can't be legally proven based on Comey's knowledge so he refused to draw that specific conclusion.
I'm certain that Kamala Harris caught on to it. I hadn't seen her live before and came away very impressed. Towards the end of her time it was like she and Comey had some kind of former-prosecutor-mind-meld thing happening. I saw it plain as day and my legal expertise amounts to "fan of the show Law and Order".
The way she addressed the "I hope" issue was something that wouldn't have been out of place in an episode of Law and Order either.
ADA McCoy and McCoy's eyebrows: When a robber held a gun to somebody's head and said, 'I hope you will give me your wallet,' the word 'hope' was not the most operative word at the moment.
Opposing counsel starts to get up to object but before they can stand...
McCoy: Withdrawn
chung-chung!
posted by VTX at 12:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
One the things I found interesting watching Comey's testimony is the way that this kind of thing was clearly running through his internal monologue while he answered questions.
You could almost hear him thinking, "Ah, they're asking X. Well yes, that is exactly correct but it's not my place to make that assessment so I will refuse to make it."
Same thing for the classified stuff, questions about his opinion (objection, relevance?!), and even his understanding of the facts. We know what Trump was asking for when he made the "I hope" statement, Comey knows, but it can't be legally proven based on Comey's knowledge so he refused to draw that specific conclusion.
I'm certain that Kamala Harris caught on to it. I hadn't seen her live before and came away very impressed. Towards the end of her time it was like she and Comey had some kind of former-prosecutor-mind-meld thing happening. I saw it plain as day and my legal expertise amounts to "fan of the show Law and Order".
The way she addressed the "I hope" issue was something that wouldn't have been out of place in an episode of Law and Order either.
ADA McCoy and McCoy's eyebrows: When a robber held a gun to somebody's head and said, 'I hope you will give me your wallet,' the word 'hope' was not the most operative word at the moment.
Opposing counsel starts to get up to object but before they can stand...
McCoy: Withdrawn
chung-chung!
posted by VTX at 12:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
Huh. A working example of the Costanza Defense, as employed by the most powerful human being in the world, to defend himself against impeachable charges. Well, I'll rest easy tonight!
posted by Mayor West at 12:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 12:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ladies and gentlemen, the Vice President of the United States: "Folks, it’s already been a banner week for infrastructure."
I don't know about you folks, but I, for one, have thought about nothing besides infrastructure this week, and am saddened that Infrastructure Week is almost over.
Also, @jonathanchait: "In McCain's defense, a lot of people are pretty wasted by day 4 of Infrastructure Week. Have to remember to pace yourself."
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [87 favorites]
I don't know about you folks, but I, for one, have thought about nothing besides infrastructure this week, and am saddened that Infrastructure Week is almost over.
Also, @jonathanchait: "In McCain's defense, a lot of people are pretty wasted by day 4 of Infrastructure Week. Have to remember to pace yourself."
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [87 favorites]
@JenniferJJacobs
Awkward scene as Kasowitz tried to escape with no press questions: He and aides stood in elevator staring at us. Forgot to push down button.
this is like the culmination of the entire day.
posted by numaner at 12:12 PM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Awkward scene as Kasowitz tried to escape with no press questions: He and aides stood in elevator staring at us. Forgot to push down button.
this is like the culmination of the entire day.
posted by numaner at 12:12 PM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Just watched the clip. Good god. McCain, retire and go enjoy the weather in Sedona while you still can.
John McCain does not enjoy weather.
John McCain enjoys power and relevance, no matter how shitty he has to be about it. In fact, being shitty about it is just fine with him.
The thing we need to remember is that it's possible to be senile/incompetent AND a shameless ethics-free sack of garbage at the same time. Examples can be found both in Arizona's Senate delegation and the White House.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:12 PM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
John McCain does not enjoy weather.
John McCain enjoys power and relevance, no matter how shitty he has to be about it. In fact, being shitty about it is just fine with him.
The thing we need to remember is that it's possible to be senile/incompetent AND a shameless ethics-free sack of garbage at the same time. Examples can be found both in Arizona's Senate delegation and the White House.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:12 PM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Now we just need Trump to follow the Costanza Principle.
posted by drezdn at 12:14 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 12:14 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Awkward scene as Kasowitz tried to escape with no press questions: He and aides stood in elevator staring at us. Forgot to push down button.
That's because he was looking for the "DWON" button.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
That's because he was looking for the "DWON" button.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
Trey Gowdy picked by GOP steering committee to chair House Oversight panel
The move — if confirmed by the full GOP Conference — would put the South Carolina Republican at the helm of a contentious probe into President Donald Trump's decision to fire FBI Director James Comey. Gowdy, a former federal prosecutor, is known for chairing the House Benghazi investigation and has also been a leading member of the Intelligence Committee’s probe of Moscow’s interference in the 2016 election.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
The move — if confirmed by the full GOP Conference — would put the South Carolina Republican at the helm of a contentious probe into President Donald Trump's decision to fire FBI Director James Comey. Gowdy, a former federal prosecutor, is known for chairing the House Benghazi investigation and has also been a leading member of the Intelligence Committee’s probe of Moscow’s interference in the 2016 election.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't know about you folks, but I, for one, have thought about nothing besides infrastructure this week
prisons count right
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:17 PM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
prisons count right
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:17 PM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]
Forgot to push down button.
Seems significant, as it's the first time I can recall that the Administration didn't willfully go low.
posted by Brak at 12:17 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Seems significant, as it's the first time I can recall that the Administration didn't willfully go low.
posted by Brak at 12:17 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Ladies and gentlemen, the Vice President of the United States: "Folks, it’s already been a banner week for infrastructure."
Is it time to hit the golf course already?
posted by Artw at 12:17 PM on June 8, 2017
Is it time to hit the golf course already?
posted by Artw at 12:17 PM on June 8, 2017
It's getting to the point where when Americans say "God Bless America" I am hearing a British person say "Oh bless"
Oblesse noblige and all that. We must keep up the spirits of the underclass.
posted by clockzero at 12:19 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oblesse noblige and all that. We must keep up the spirits of the underclass.
posted by clockzero at 12:19 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Awkward scene as Kasowitz tried to escape with no press questions: He and aides stood in elevator staring at us. Forgot to push down button.
How did you get your post to autoplay the "Curb Your Enthusiasm" theme?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:19 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
How did you get your post to autoplay the "Curb Your Enthusiasm" theme?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:19 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
I honestly wonder if the GOP, with their questions to Comey, and public statements today, has started laying the groundwork for, when they do finally take out the knives for Trump, being able to say "look, we removed him to protect the country because he was clearly too stupid to be President". I mean, it's not a great defense, but it's probably more palatable politically then trying to explain why they propped up a power-hungry ethno-nationalist fascist.
The flaw in that theory is that power hungry ethno-nationalist fascism is pretty much the home turf of the GOP already.
posted by dry white toast at 12:19 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
The flaw in that theory is that power hungry ethno-nationalist fascism is pretty much the home turf of the GOP already.
posted by dry white toast at 12:19 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Webster's is fake dictionary
Wibster's Dicshunary is a perfectly cromulent resource.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:20 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wibster's Dicshunary is a perfectly cromulent resource.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:20 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
The flaw in that theory is that power hungry ethno-nationalist fascism is pretty much the home turf of the GOP already.
Yup. I meant to say earlier: please keep in mind that these predisental typos, while horrifying to us mefites and our friends, are probably comforting to some borderline supporters (yay, not all of us are good at spelling, he's like us!).
posted by Melismata at 12:22 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yup. I meant to say earlier: please keep in mind that these predisental typos, while horrifying to us mefites and our friends, are probably comforting to some borderline supporters (yay, not all of us are good at spelling, he's like us!).
posted by Melismata at 12:22 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Putin compares him to the famed Roman Senator Cato the Elder, who opposed Greek cultural influence in Rome and, Putin notes, 'always finished his speeches using the same words, "Carthage must be destroyed."
See, this is how you can tell that Putin is fucking with us. Anyone who knows McCain knows that if he were an orator in ancient Rome, his sign off would've been more like "If what I'm hearing about Carthage is true - and I don't believe it has been confirmed yet - I would find that very concerning."
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 12:27 PM on June 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
See, this is how you can tell that Putin is fucking with us. Anyone who knows McCain knows that if he were an orator in ancient Rome, his sign off would've been more like "If what I'm hearing about Carthage is true - and I don't believe it has been confirmed yet - I would find that very concerning."
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 12:27 PM on June 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
I hate how Trump hangs his hat on his statement that it would be "good to find out" if any of his other conspirators were dirty.
If I put myself in Trumps shoes and I myself knew that I was totally innocent and hadn't done anything wrong I would have done so in a small meeting, in the oval office (or similarly appropriate place for the president to meet with the director of the FBI) along with a few other relevant parties like the AG, probably my chief of staff and at least a couple of people who would be credible witnesses for Comey if came down to it someday (IE: People I don't have any leverage to make lie for me).
Then my message would have been, "Look, I'm innocent, I know I haven't done anything wrong and that your investigation will prove that. But it's hanging over my head like a cloud and making it hard for me to get things done. So, it's important that your investigation is thorough and it must go on as long as it has to. What I'm asking is that, as soon as it's appropriate for you to do so, public state the conclusions and recommendations that you're making."
And I would probably ask, "Is there anything you can do to help lift this 'cloud' without compromising the investigation?"
If you're on the up-and-up and you're convinced you're not doing anything wrong, there is no reason to hide that you're doing it. In fact, it's to your advantage to do it out in the open where people can see it. Your argument is that there are two problems 1. we need to investigate Russian interference and 2. The investigation makes it hard to do my job. Then you're asking, "How do we solve both of these?"
But, that's what an innocent person who actually wants do the job of president does.
posted by VTX at 12:28 PM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
If I put myself in Trumps shoes and I myself knew that I was totally innocent and hadn't done anything wrong I would have done so in a small meeting, in the oval office (or similarly appropriate place for the president to meet with the director of the FBI) along with a few other relevant parties like the AG, probably my chief of staff and at least a couple of people who would be credible witnesses for Comey if came down to it someday (IE: People I don't have any leverage to make lie for me).
Then my message would have been, "Look, I'm innocent, I know I haven't done anything wrong and that your investigation will prove that. But it's hanging over my head like a cloud and making it hard for me to get things done. So, it's important that your investigation is thorough and it must go on as long as it has to. What I'm asking is that, as soon as it's appropriate for you to do so, public state the conclusions and recommendations that you're making."
And I would probably ask, "Is there anything you can do to help lift this 'cloud' without compromising the investigation?"
If you're on the up-and-up and you're convinced you're not doing anything wrong, there is no reason to hide that you're doing it. In fact, it's to your advantage to do it out in the open where people can see it. Your argument is that there are two problems 1. we need to investigate Russian interference and 2. The investigation makes it hard to do my job. Then you're asking, "How do we solve both of these?"
But, that's what an innocent person who actually wants do the job of president does.
posted by VTX at 12:28 PM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
"I get the sense from Twitter that my line of questioning today went over people's heads."
I just discovered another old Dr. Seuess cartoon from the 80's or so, it's that old favorite about a beloved holiday and old Mr. Grinch himself, yes, you all know it:
Halloween is Grinch Night
Anyway, at one point the little who-boy has to go to the bathroom and he tells his grandfather, in true Seussian fashion, that he 'Needs to go to the euphemism.', meaning their toilet, an outhouse aka loo, john, or shitter. Whereupon he gets lost and wanders in the wilderness while being tormented by The Grinch. I've no idea why this isn't the classic that's broadcast every year like the Christmas flavored cartoon that you've all heard about, but I digress...
Anyway, I don't know why McCain's reply/response made me think of that, but it did, and now I'm going to begin saying that our country 'is in the euphemism' whenever someone asks me about political stuff and leave it at. It violates the principal of Hodor completely but I'm beyond giving a shit at this point.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:38 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
I just discovered another old Dr. Seuess cartoon from the 80's or so, it's that old favorite about a beloved holiday and old Mr. Grinch himself, yes, you all know it:
Halloween is Grinch Night
Anyway, at one point the little who-boy has to go to the bathroom and he tells his grandfather, in true Seussian fashion, that he 'Needs to go to the euphemism.', meaning their toilet, an outhouse aka loo, john, or shitter. Whereupon he gets lost and wanders in the wilderness while being tormented by The Grinch. I've no idea why this isn't the classic that's broadcast every year like the Christmas flavored cartoon that you've all heard about, but I digress...
Anyway, I don't know why McCain's reply/response made me think of that, but it did, and now I'm going to begin saying that our country 'is in the euphemism' whenever someone asks me about political stuff and leave it at. It violates the principal of Hodor completely but I'm beyond giving a shit at this point.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:38 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
*extremely Jay Leno voice* After his performance today, I think one thing is clear: John McCain is running for predisent.
posted by duffell at 12:38 PM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by duffell at 12:38 PM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
get out
posted by entropicamericana at 12:40 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 12:40 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Duffell, we’ve had Predisents who were beloved, who couldn’t find a coherent sentence with two hands and a flashlight. People don’t drink the sand because they’re thirsty. They drink it because they don’t know the difference.
posted by Molesome at 12:41 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Molesome at 12:41 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
McCain: "I get the sense from Twitter that my line of questioning went over people's heads."
kids today just don't got the covfefe am i right
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:42 PM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
kids today just don't got the covfefe am i right
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:42 PM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Apparently the Diamondbacks STARTED at 9:40pm last night, which seems way after McCain's bedtime to even be watching the first inning.
Diamondbacks respond: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [real]
posted by gladly at 12:42 PM on June 8, 2017 [62 favorites]
Diamondbacks respond: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [real]
posted by gladly at 12:42 PM on June 8, 2017 [62 favorites]
Incidentally, in keeping with the GOP's strategy of maintaining Trump as a lightning rod while they try to drown the government (and most Americans) in a bathtub, the House will vote on dismantling the Dodd-Frank Act.
posted by clockzero at 12:43 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by clockzero at 12:43 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is truly unpredisented.
posted by Fleebnork at 12:44 PM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 12:44 PM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
See, this is how you can tell that Putin is fucking with us.
Strongly disagree. McCain never really met a war he didn't like. He could have ended all his speeches with "Iran must be bombed" and no one would have really noticed much because McCain is as pro-war as he is vaguely concerned when Republicans commit crimes.
I didn't know about (or remember) McCain's 2008 yachtside birthday party with Manafort and the Oligarch. But I do remember Russia's invasion of Georgia that summer, and how McCain strongly wanted the US to do something. Up to and including an active defense of Georgia. In the context of the stuff we know now, and in the context of his birthday party, I'm wondering if that was a sincerely held position or just a smokescreen.
Now that I've mentioned it, I'm also wondering about Romney's very vocal anti-Russia stance in 2012. Sincere or misdirection? I'm probably just falling into the trap of becoming a conspiracy theorist, but it's difficult not re-evaluating the GOP's actions regarding Russia in recent years.
posted by honestcoyote at 12:44 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Strongly disagree. McCain never really met a war he didn't like. He could have ended all his speeches with "Iran must be bombed" and no one would have really noticed much because McCain is as pro-war as he is vaguely concerned when Republicans commit crimes.
I didn't know about (or remember) McCain's 2008 yachtside birthday party with Manafort and the Oligarch. But I do remember Russia's invasion of Georgia that summer, and how McCain strongly wanted the US to do something. Up to and including an active defense of Georgia. In the context of the stuff we know now, and in the context of his birthday party, I'm wondering if that was a sincerely held position or just a smokescreen.
Now that I've mentioned it, I'm also wondering about Romney's very vocal anti-Russia stance in 2012. Sincere or misdirection? I'm probably just falling into the trap of becoming a conspiracy theorist, but it's difficult not re-evaluating the GOP's actions regarding Russia in recent years.
posted by honestcoyote at 12:44 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
> He called me to touch base and also to say he'd thought more about the "salacious material" from the Jan 6 briefing, and he was convinced it could not have happened.
"Yeah, see, I've spent the past few weeks trying to sort through all the hundreds--or is it thousands?--of various salacious type episodes I have been involved in over the decades, trying to see if I could jog my memory a bit and remember that one particular one they seem to be referring to there.
"There are just SO MANY similar events that happened over the years, I really just couldn't sort out which one they could have been talking about. So many--and all so similar . . .
"But then I suddenly remembered--the Russkies said that during this particular salacious episode, specific salacious incident Y happened.
"And you know what--I happen to love salacious activities W, X, and Z and have engaged in them with young and semi-willing participants all across the globe at every available opportunity.
"But activity Y just happens to give me the heeby-jeebies. I can't stand it and I wouldn't be caught dead doing it.
"I just barely remembered this after two weeks of thinking hard about and combing through my well-stocked hoard of salacious memories. Of course! I would never have engaged in Y! Other than Y, it all seems to ring a vague bell of some kind--but really, who knows. But if Y is involved, well that really clinches it for me. No way.
"So disgusting that--well, I think I have convinced even myself of this! Convinced--yeah, that's the ticket. I'm convinced. I've convinced myself. That's the hardest job in the world! And I'm convinced. 100%. Are you convinced? You should be!
"Also I thought a bit further and realized to myself, that even if I did engage in salacious activity Y on that occasion they are talking about, I would have made darn good and sure that there was no tape of it whatsoever! Because of the Y involved. 'Make sure there is no evidence, Donny,' I said to myself, "Because Y is really, really disgusting'.
"And in fact I did make sure there was no way it could be taped. PERSONALLY made sure, I can guarantee you. No tape whatsoever, I made SURE of that. Destroyed it with my own hands, I did.
"So, convinced myself it didn't happen. AND that there was no tape whatsoever. Iron clad case, yes indeed!
"Whelp, that's it. Talk to you later. Bye!"
[Fake, but really--it had to have gone down something like that why on earth would he even have taken the time to make that phone call to Comey? "I thought of a reason why it must be fake." Uh, yeah . . . ]
posted by flug at 12:46 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Yeah, see, I've spent the past few weeks trying to sort through all the hundreds--or is it thousands?--of various salacious type episodes I have been involved in over the decades, trying to see if I could jog my memory a bit and remember that one particular one they seem to be referring to there.
"There are just SO MANY similar events that happened over the years, I really just couldn't sort out which one they could have been talking about. So many--and all so similar . . .
"But then I suddenly remembered--the Russkies said that during this particular salacious episode, specific salacious incident Y happened.
"And you know what--I happen to love salacious activities W, X, and Z and have engaged in them with young and semi-willing participants all across the globe at every available opportunity.
"But activity Y just happens to give me the heeby-jeebies. I can't stand it and I wouldn't be caught dead doing it.
"I just barely remembered this after two weeks of thinking hard about and combing through my well-stocked hoard of salacious memories. Of course! I would never have engaged in Y! Other than Y, it all seems to ring a vague bell of some kind--but really, who knows. But if Y is involved, well that really clinches it for me. No way.
"So disgusting that--well, I think I have convinced even myself of this! Convinced--yeah, that's the ticket. I'm convinced. I've convinced myself. That's the hardest job in the world! And I'm convinced. 100%. Are you convinced? You should be!
"Also I thought a bit further and realized to myself, that even if I did engage in salacious activity Y on that occasion they are talking about, I would have made darn good and sure that there was no tape of it whatsoever! Because of the Y involved. 'Make sure there is no evidence, Donny,' I said to myself, "Because Y is really, really disgusting'.
"And in fact I did make sure there was no way it could be taped. PERSONALLY made sure, I can guarantee you. No tape whatsoever, I made SURE of that. Destroyed it with my own hands, I did.
"So, convinced myself it didn't happen. AND that there was no tape whatsoever. Iron clad case, yes indeed!
"Whelp, that's it. Talk to you later. Bye!"
[Fake, but really--it had to have gone down something like that why on earth would he even have taken the time to make that phone call to Comey? "I thought of a reason why it must be fake." Uh, yeah . . . ]
posted by flug at 12:46 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
As an east-coast-livin' fan of a west coast baseball team I can definitely sympathize with the crazy late start times and sleep-stealing power of the NL West, but man, if I had a major major thing to do thin the morning id just watch the condensed game on the mlb tv app on my way to the office.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:50 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:50 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Via: New York Times
posted by Fizz at 12:51 PM on June 8, 2017 [57 favorites]
“The president’s new at this,” Mr. Ryan said at a news conference. “He’s new to government. And so he probably wasn’t steeped in the long-running protocols that establish the relationships between D.O.J., F.B.I. and White Houses. He’s just new to this.”“My client is new to drug-dealing and drug-running. He's not steeped in the long-running protocols that other drug-dealers use on a day to day basis. He's just new to this.”
posted by Fizz at 12:51 PM on June 8, 2017 [57 favorites]
@emptywheel: Remember, Trump is relying on Kasowitz, who can't make it a ¶ w/o an error, bc better lawyers think they won't get paid.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:52 PM on June 8, 2017 [76 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:52 PM on June 8, 2017 [76 favorites]
My client is new to truth...
just go on, you can't lose.
posted by Namlit at 12:53 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
just go on, you can't lose.
posted by Namlit at 12:53 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
The "new at this" defense doesn't hold up. His clearing of the room to talk about Flynn is consciousness of wrongdoing, pure and simple.
posted by xyzzy at 12:53 PM on June 8, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 12:53 PM on June 8, 2017 [54 favorites]
91-yo former House Rep subtweets like a millenial:
@JohnDingell Naps are important. When in doubt, take a nap.
posted by klarck at 12:58 PM on June 8, 2017 [71 favorites]
@JohnDingell Naps are important. When in doubt, take a nap.
posted by klarck at 12:58 PM on June 8, 2017 [71 favorites]
WASHINGTON — President Trump today announced major new investments in national infrastructure, including over $10m dedicated to a single cell at Federal Correctional Institution Terre Haute, which will be outfitted with solid gold furnishings and an attached four-bedroom penthouse. (not real)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:58 PM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:58 PM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Oh I'm well aware of McCain's bellicosity towards Iran. It was actually an apt comparison in some ways. I'm just saying that when McCain is faced with hostile activities on the part of a foreign power that could actually be an existential threat to our republic, but recognizing this is inconvenient for McCain's political party, his Cato side melts away and it's all "questions" this and "concerns" that.
I know he's a warmonger. I'm just pointing out he's also a hypocrite and a coward.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 12:59 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know he's a warmonger. I'm just pointing out he's also a hypocrite and a coward.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 12:59 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm going to give the Republicans a pass on this, because historically they've always been so forgiving in cases where poor people didn't know how to navigate government bureaucracies and that sort of thing.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:59 PM on June 8, 2017 [93 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:59 PM on June 8, 2017 [93 favorites]
You guys don't follow the rules very well. More one liners and noise in this thread than all the other mega threads combined. /crabby
So who will be in the closed session, do we know? And does that one go on some kind of record, even if not public?
posted by yoga at 1:01 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
So who will be in the closed session, do we know? And does that one go on some kind of record, even if not public?
posted by yoga at 1:01 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trey Gowdy picked by GOP steering committee to chair House Oversight panel
The Senate would have put the house Republicans to shame if they had any shame left in them.
Now we just need Trump to follow the Costanza Principle
No, since all of Trump's instincts are wrong we need him to do the opposite!
posted by Room 641-A at 1:08 PM on June 8, 2017
The Senate would have put the house Republicans to shame if they had any shame left in them.
Now we just need Trump to follow the Costanza Principle
No, since all of Trump's instincts are wrong we need him to do the opposite!
posted by Room 641-A at 1:08 PM on June 8, 2017
Anyone who knows McCain knows that if he were an orator in ancient Rome, his sign off would've been more like "If what I'm hearing about Carthage is true - and I don't believe it has been confirmed yet - I would find that very concerning."
Was Putin trolling McCain about his "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" ditty?
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:08 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Was Putin trolling McCain about his "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" ditty?
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:08 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trey Gowdy picked by GOP steering committee to chair House Oversight panel
finally, we can get to the bottom of this benghazi thing
posted by murphy slaw at 1:10 PM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
finally, we can get to the bottom of this benghazi thing
posted by murphy slaw at 1:10 PM on June 8, 2017 [18 favorites]
@emptywheel: Remember, Trump is relying on Kasowitz, who can't make it a ¶ w/o an error, bc better lawyers think they won't get paid.
Every associate or junior partner that Kasowitz has chewed out in the last six (6) years for a typo or formatting inconsistency or forgetting to look up the local rules on margins is, like, printing that statement out, and gleefully circling each and every mistake with a red felt-tip pen.
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Every associate or junior partner that Kasowitz has chewed out in the last six (6) years for a typo or formatting inconsistency or forgetting to look up the local rules on margins is, like, printing that statement out, and gleefully circling each and every mistake with a red felt-tip pen.
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Sen. Ted Cruz getting cut off before he finished his speech at the Faith and Freedom Conference is hilarious. The look on his face...
posted by zachlipton at 1:14 PM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:14 PM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
oh shit it's an editorial cartoon
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [47 favorites]
Every associate or junior partner that Kasowitz has chewed out in the last six (6) years for a typo or formatting inconsistency or forgetting to look up the local rules on margins is, like, printing that statement out, and gleefully circling each and every mistake with a red felt-tip pen.
Someone in my family (no, I can't give more details than that) worked for Kasowitz for a long time and um, has stories. I don't mean to vaguebook or vague post, but the dude is not a good person.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Someone in my family (no, I can't give more details than that) worked for Kasowitz for a long time and um, has stories. I don't mean to vaguebook or vague post, but the dude is not a good person.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
"I shouldn’t stay up late watching the Diamondbacks night games with a quart of cheap gin." [fake]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:16 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 1:16 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
> Sen. Ted Cruz getting cut off before he finished his speech at the Faith and Freedom Conference is hilarious. The look on his face...
Added to a Youtube playlist reserved for those awful days when even kitten videos aren't helping.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:17 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Added to a Youtube playlist reserved for those awful days when even kitten videos aren't helping.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:17 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Comey re-captioned.
But seriously, if the Whole Republican Party were compromised by and/or in cahoots with the Russians before The Trumpeter won the nomination, they would have insisted Putin aid some other of their candidates.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:20 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
But seriously, if the Whole Republican Party were compromised by and/or in cahoots with the Russians before The Trumpeter won the nomination, they would have insisted Putin aid some other of their candidates.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:20 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
‘Talk about damning’: Fox News hosts rip Sarah Huckabee Sanders for ‘terrible’ Trump defense (Elizabeth Preza, Raw Story)
The hosts of Fox News’ Outnumbered on Thursday slammed the White House and GOP’s response to former FBI Director James Comey’s testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee, noting if a communications officer has to come out and say Donald Trump “is not a liar,” that not good enough.posted by Room 641-A at 1:25 PM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
But seriously, if the Whole Republican Party were compromised by and/or in cahoots with the Russians before The Trumpeter won the nomination, they would have insisted Putin aid some other of their candidates.
[thick Russian accent] "But, comrades, we have been grooming the Mangled Apricot for years now and he will further the great friendship between your country and mine. I will help you with your other important elections, but, please, you must allow Vlad this one. Besides, he's my favorite. So entertaining."
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:25 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
[thick Russian accent] "But, comrades, we have been grooming the Mangled Apricot for years now and he will further the great friendship between your country and mine. I will help you with your other important elections, but, please, you must allow Vlad this one. Besides, he's my favorite. So entertaining."
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:25 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
oh shit it's an editorial cartoon
I see the Republicans trying to mow down a tree and the brave predisent trying to stop them.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
I see the Republicans trying to mow down a tree and the brave predisent trying to stop them.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Room 641-A: ah, once again, the media wants to set the narrative, not the other way around. Wish they'd stop doing that! (and not just Fox)
posted by Melismata at 1:27 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 1:27 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
So something that has been freaking me out since it was revealed that the voter records may have been pulled and used for targeted work by Russians in support of the President is that one night in late October I was at home and a woman came to my door with a clipboard. Normally I do not answer the door but for whatever reason I did this time. She asked if I would answer some questions about the elections. Again I acted outside of my normal pattern and said ok but I'd already voted. She said that was fine, she was just taking a poll.
So she asked me a bunch of questions about what I valued and found important in the election. I didn't want to get into an argument on my doorstep with a stranger that it was not electing an ignorant crook to the White House so I said that I thought infrastructure was the most important thing in the election.
Basically it is my fault that this is infrastructure week because apparently the Russians decided from my answer that the thing that could distract white ladies from really bad news is roads, bridges and dams.
posted by winna at 1:28 PM on June 8, 2017 [38 favorites]
So she asked me a bunch of questions about what I valued and found important in the election. I didn't want to get into an argument on my doorstep with a stranger that it was not electing an ignorant crook to the White House so I said that I thought infrastructure was the most important thing in the election.
Basically it is my fault that this is infrastructure week because apparently the Russians decided from my answer that the thing that could distract white ladies from really bad news is roads, bridges and dams.
posted by winna at 1:28 PM on June 8, 2017 [38 favorites]
It just occurred to me that, if not for 100% of their ilk, the McCain line of questioning will make complete and total head-nodding sense to many, many American viewers. I'm not even kidding.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:30 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:30 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
@JenniferJJacobs: SCOOP: Anthony Scaramucci will be named Trump's ambassador to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation & Development. OECD HQ is in Paris.
Scaramucci ranks high on my list of most hated Trump surrogates.
It's a weird gig though since Trump doesn't believe in organisation, economic co-operation, development, or Paris.
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Scaramucci ranks high on my list of most hated Trump surrogates.
It's a weird gig though since Trump doesn't believe in organisation, economic co-operation, development, or Paris.
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
"The President's new at this. He's new to government. So, he probably wasn't steeped in the long-running protocols that establish the relationships between DOJ, FBI and White Houses. He's just new to this."
"He's new at government, and so therefore I think that he -- he is learning as he goes," Ryan said.
The Twenty-Fifth Amendment was specifically crafted so that, in the event the President is incapable of fulfilling his constitutional duties, we just wait around and give him a chance to learn the ropes
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:43 PM on June 8, 2017 [70 favorites]
"He's new at government, and so therefore I think that he -- he is learning as he goes," Ryan said.
The Twenty-Fifth Amendment was specifically crafted so that, in the event the President is incapable of fulfilling his constitutional duties, we just wait around and give him a chance to learn the ropes
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:43 PM on June 8, 2017 [70 favorites]
"It has now been established that the President was not being investigated for colluding with any investigation."
This is lawerly but absolutely true. The president is actively obstructing the investigations, which is the opposite of colluding with them.
posted by msalt at 1:43 PM on June 8, 2017 [42 favorites]
This is lawerly but absolutely true. The president is actively obstructing the investigations, which is the opposite of colluding with them.
posted by msalt at 1:43 PM on June 8, 2017 [42 favorites]
There is certainly no evidence of collusion.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:44 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:44 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's a weird gig though since Trump doesn't believe in organisation, economic co-operation, development, or Paris.
This comment reminded me of this clip from Community. Jeff Winger isn't a bad analogy for Trump, but Pierce Hawthorne is far more on-the-nose.
posted by dry white toast at 1:44 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
This comment reminded me of this clip from Community. Jeff Winger isn't a bad analogy for Trump, but Pierce Hawthorne is far more on-the-nose.
posted by dry white toast at 1:44 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
The House passed the bill to undo most of Dodd-Frank 233-186 (here's some good background on the CHOICE Act), with one Republican voting against, Rep. Walter Jones, who apparently actually remembers the financial crisis.
I believe it should be dead on arrival in the Senate, but it's still pathetic.
posted by zachlipton at 1:46 PM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
I believe it should be dead on arrival in the Senate, but it's still pathetic.
posted by zachlipton at 1:46 PM on June 8, 2017 [26 favorites]
A while back, Rep. Maxine Waters said Comey had no credibility (but still considered Comey's firing "an outrage and unacceptable"). I would like a deeper understanding of reasons to doubt Comey's credibility in order to properly understand his testimony.
zachlipton hypothesized here that it was when she learned that Comey acted on Russian intelligence he knew was fake.
posted by triggerfinger at 1:47 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
zachlipton hypothesized here that it was when she learned that Comey acted on Russian intelligence he knew was fake.
posted by triggerfinger at 1:47 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Anthony Scaramucci will be named Trump's ambassador to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation & Development.
Somebody has to say it...
Scaramucci, Scaramucci, can you do the fandango?
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:47 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Somebody has to say it...
Scaramucci, Scaramucci, can you do the fandango?
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:47 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Anthony Scaramucci will be named Trump's ambassador to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation & Development.
But will he do the fandango?
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
But will he do the fandango?
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [14 favorites]
Oh damn.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
It always takes me a minute to realize that Scaramucci is not the guy behind In The Loop.
posted by pxe2000 at 1:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 1:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
@JohnDingell Naps are important. When in doubt, take a nap.
Speaking of which, I'm sad to report that my planned beach nap was interrupted by rather warmly welcomed overcast skies and a light drizzle because fuck the sun, so I just slept in.
Which is just as well because it would have been interrupted by the start of The Race to Alaska, which I totally forgot about and would explain all the loud noises and hubbub from that direction. Basically, the exact place where I wanted to nap would have been uncharacteristically swarming with people.
Anyway, sorry about that. I totally dropped the ball.
posted by loquacious at 1:55 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Speaking of which, I'm sad to report that my planned beach nap was interrupted by rather warmly welcomed overcast skies and a light drizzle because fuck the sun, so I just slept in.
Which is just as well because it would have been interrupted by the start of The Race to Alaska, which I totally forgot about and would explain all the loud noises and hubbub from that direction. Basically, the exact place where I wanted to nap would have been uncharacteristically swarming with people.
Anyway, sorry about that. I totally dropped the ball.
posted by loquacious at 1:55 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Scaramucci," as a name, always makes me think of Francisco Scaramanga, the Bond villain (memorably played by Christopher Lee) in The Man with the Golden Gun.
I leave it as an exercise to the reader to catalog other ways the real life scumbag resembles the fictional villain, beyond merely having similar last names.
posted by mosk at 1:56 PM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
I leave it as an exercise to the reader to catalog other ways the real life scumbag resembles the fictional villain, beyond merely having similar last names.
posted by mosk at 1:56 PM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
The House passed the bill to undo most of Dodd-Frank 233-186
Up next, the mandatory orphan workhouse act.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:58 PM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Up next, the mandatory orphan workhouse act.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:58 PM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
I hope I'm not out of line here, but guys, while y'all are really funny I swear, please remember that completely unrelated jokes and one-liners are causing problems for others. Please be kind to those of us that want to follow the substantive threads, to those with crappier browsers, and to the mods. Thanks so much!
posted by R a c h e l at 1:59 PM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by R a c h e l at 1:59 PM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
Comey acted on Russian intelligence he knew was fake
He went out of his way to shoot that story down during his testimony today. He called it "nonsense" at least twice, though he said he couldn't explain why it was nonsense in an open session.
He said his decision to bypass Lynch was based on her tarmac conversation with Bill Clinton and her request to him to refer to the email investigation as the "email matter," and that those were determinative. And anything else we may have heard was false.
Not quite sure what to make of that, but he was very clear about it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
He went out of his way to shoot that story down during his testimony today. He called it "nonsense" at least twice, though he said he couldn't explain why it was nonsense in an open session.
He said his decision to bypass Lynch was based on her tarmac conversation with Bill Clinton and her request to him to refer to the email investigation as the "email matter," and that those were determinative. And anything else we may have heard was false.
Not quite sure what to make of that, but he was very clear about it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
During this break in the action then, may I direct your attention to the British election where exit polls are indicating a hung Parliament...
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:12 PM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:12 PM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]
> may I direct your attention to the British election where exit polls are indicating a hung Parliament...
Without a link to the thread?
If the British election does produce a hung Parliament and a serious re-think of Brexit, that and the Comey testimony today may be the first tentative steps back from the brink. (Macron would be the turning of the tide.)
Or, of course, it might turn out that people shrug at the Comey testimony (he said under oath, Trump's lawyer contradicted and claimed vindication at the same time, so eh) and the British exit polls are wrong (the "shy Tory" effect) - that sounds more like the darkest timeline we're in, honestly.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:17 PM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Without a link to the thread?
If the British election does produce a hung Parliament and a serious re-think of Brexit, that and the Comey testimony today may be the first tentative steps back from the brink. (Macron would be the turning of the tide.)
Or, of course, it might turn out that people shrug at the Comey testimony (he said under oath, Trump's lawyer contradicted and claimed vindication at the same time, so eh) and the British exit polls are wrong (the "shy Tory" effect) - that sounds more like the darkest timeline we're in, honestly.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:17 PM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
link for the British election thread -- let's not clog up this one!
posted by saturday_morning at 2:18 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by saturday_morning at 2:18 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
A friend of mine posted this on FB and I had to share:
EXCERPTS FROM JAMES COMEY’S OPENING STATEMENT TO THE SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE OR FROM KAZUO ISHIGURO’S THE REMAINS OF THE DAY?
posted by piyushnz at 2:19 PM on June 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
EXCERPTS FROM JAMES COMEY’S OPENING STATEMENT TO THE SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE OR FROM KAZUO ISHIGURO’S THE REMAINS OF THE DAY?
posted by piyushnz at 2:19 PM on June 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
RedOrGreen: Macron would be the turning of the tide.
Sure, go ahead and ignore the results of the Dutch election, why don't you. We're used to being ignored.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
Sure, go ahead and ignore the results of the Dutch election, why don't you. We're used to being ignored.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
> Sure, go ahead and ignore the results of the Dutch election, why don't you. We're used to being ignored.
Ah crap. Sorry!
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:37 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ah crap. Sorry!
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:37 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
No one suspects the Dutch election.
posted by orange ball at 2:41 PM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by orange ball at 2:41 PM on June 8, 2017 [35 favorites]
And more "hope".
@victoriakwan_
Here's another: 5th Circuit affirms obstruction of justice conviction based in part on "I'm just hoping" comment (US v. Bedoy, 827 F.3d 495) [screenshot of relevant passage]
posted by chris24 at 2:54 PM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
@victoriakwan_
Here's another: 5th Circuit affirms obstruction of justice conviction based in part on "I'm just hoping" comment (US v. Bedoy, 827 F.3d 495) [screenshot of relevant passage]
posted by chris24 at 2:54 PM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
There was also that time Trump sent a tweet where he used "hope" to threaten someone.
Hint: that someone was the tall man who had all the cameras pointed at him today
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [59 favorites]
Hint: that someone was the tall man who had all the cameras pointed at him today
posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [59 favorites]
Detailed step-by-step instructions (Twitter thread) about how to have the biggest impact on your Republican senator when you call to oppose the healthcare monstrosity.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:08 PM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:08 PM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Reminder of President Trump's Feelings for Leaks as of October 10th 2016: "WikiLeaks! I love WikiLeaks!"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah, as amazing as the Comey thing is, remember that the juice is in the House and Senate, and we've got to keep the pressure up to have something salvageable in 2018-2020. They're not going to impeach him, so we have to fight these fuckers at every damn bridge.
posted by eclectist at 3:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by eclectist at 3:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is extremely interesting. @PeterAlexander: NEW: During Senate Intel Cmte's closed session today, senators learned about a 3rd, previously undisclosed meeting w Sessions & Russian(s)
I do think one of the primary takeaways of today's testimony was Sessions getting thrown under a bus and repeatedly rolled over.
posted by zachlipton at 3:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [104 favorites]
I do think one of the primary takeaways of today's testimony was Sessions getting thrown under a bus and repeatedly rolled over.
posted by zachlipton at 3:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [104 favorites]
but a keebler elf can survive being run over by a bus because the wheels are so high
posted by murphy slaw at 3:18 PM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 3:18 PM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
He went out of his way to shoot that story down during his testimony today. He called it "nonsense" at least twice, though he said he couldn't explain why it was nonsense in an open session.
Fair enough. I was only able to watch some of it, so I must have missed that part.
I am kind of dying to know what Maxine Waters was talking about though.
posted by triggerfinger at 3:23 PM on June 8, 2017
Fair enough. I was only able to watch some of it, so I must have missed that part.
I am kind of dying to know what Maxine Waters was talking about though.
posted by triggerfinger at 3:23 PM on June 8, 2017
"Scaramucci," as a name, always makes me think of Francisco Scaramanga, the Bond villain (memorably played by Christopher Lee) in The Man with the Golden Gun.
I leave it as an exercise to the reader to catalog other ways the real life scumbag resembles the fictional villain, beyond merely having similar last names.
I must say that I have devoted very little time and attention to Scaramucci, but now I find myself pondering how many nipples he has. Thanks, Mefi.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
I leave it as an exercise to the reader to catalog other ways the real life scumbag resembles the fictional villain, beyond merely having similar last names.
I must say that I have devoted very little time and attention to Scaramucci, but now I find myself pondering how many nipples he has. Thanks, Mefi.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hopefully we'll see the end of Sessions' career, followed by the nomination of somebody more awful and venal whose career will then be ended and so on.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:28 PM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:28 PM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
The A.V. Club copyedited “Predisent” Trump’s lawyer, and the results were not good
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:32 PM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:32 PM on June 8, 2017 [17 favorites]
Loretta Lynch pushes back (er, "a person familiar" does anyway). The source's argument is that the AG thought they should apply longstanding DOJ and FBI policy to not confirm the existence of criminal investigations to discussions of Clinton's emails, and that Lynch had previously used the term "matter" publicly to avoid confirming or denying the existence of the investigation as per the policy. She thought they should be consistent with that and nobody, including Comey, argued otherwise.
That's not exactly how Comey told it.
posted by zachlipton at 3:33 PM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
That's not exactly how Comey told it.
posted by zachlipton at 3:33 PM on June 8, 2017 [21 favorites]
Hopefully we'll see the end of Sessions' career, followed by the nomination of somebody more awful and venal whose career will then be ended and so on.
Hey, I just realized! That would be draining the swamp! He's doing just what he promised...
posted by Don Pepino at 3:42 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hey, I just realized! That would be draining the swamp! He's doing just what he promised...
posted by Don Pepino at 3:42 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
CNN: Jeff Sessions set for grilling on Russia, Comey
a little closer to Keeblerdämmerung next Tuesday!
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:50 PM on June 8, 2017 [55 favorites]
a little closer to Keeblerdämmerung next Tuesday!
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:50 PM on June 8, 2017 [55 favorites]
They went to Jared <3
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:51 PM on June 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:51 PM on June 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
WaPo going in for the burn. This is now Trump’s fifth-longest Twitter drought since he declared his candidacy
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:55 PM on June 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:55 PM on June 8, 2017 [34 favorites]
Hmmm. I thought the problem was that Martha McSally was ineffective and awful.
posted by bongo_x at 3:56 PM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 3:56 PM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
Chuck Grassley just posted something on Facebook that implied that the point of the hearings was to investigate wrongdoing by Comey. Comey has apparently left many questions about his conduct unanswered and even raised new questions about the decisions he's made.
These people are evil, and everyone who voted for them should be ashamed.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:57 PM on June 8, 2017 [61 favorites]
These people are evil, and everyone who voted for them should be ashamed.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:57 PM on June 8, 2017 [61 favorites]
Dear Rep. McSally:
My heart bleeds for you.
On a related note, this condition will probably prevent me from getting affordable health care if your party has its way.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:57 PM on June 8, 2017 [59 favorites]
My heart bleeds for you.
On a related note, this condition will probably prevent me from getting affordable health care if your party has its way.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:57 PM on June 8, 2017 [59 favorites]
That's not exactly how Comey told it.
As much as he's playing enemy of our enemy today, Comey is still first and foremost on Jim Comey's side. His story today still attempts to justify his July and October violations of DOJ policy which he should've been fired for by Obama.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:02 PM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
As much as he's playing enemy of our enemy today, Comey is still first and foremost on Jim Comey's side. His story today still attempts to justify his July and October violations of DOJ policy which he should've been fired for by Obama.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:02 PM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Matt Yglesias at Vox
Good to see journalists catching on to what internet users realized last august
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:09 PM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Good to see journalists catching on to what internet users realized last august
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:09 PM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
The spin was just too aggressive, self-serving, and a little far-fetched...Yet here we are months later and the self-serving spin was clearly correct.
So if the "spin" was correct, at what point do you call it truth, Matt Yglesias?
posted by nubs at 4:22 PM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
So if the "spin" was correct, at what point do you call it truth, Matt Yglesias?
posted by nubs at 4:22 PM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
"The environment has changed and some of it changed on January 20," McSally told the crowd. "There's just an element out there that's just, like, so against the president. Like they just can't see straight. And all of a sudden on January 20, I'm like his twin sister to them. And I'm, like, responsible for everything he does, and tweets and says. And they want me to be spending my time as a pundit. 'I disagree with that. I agree with this.' I have a job in the legislature!"
I'm sure your minority constituents can empathize.
posted by Talez at 4:23 PM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
I'm sure your minority constituents can empathize.
posted by Talez at 4:23 PM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]
New Republic Trump Doesn’t Care About the Country—Just Himself
Comey’s testimony gives us a sense of what having such a prevaricator as president means for public servants just trying to do their job. For Comey, Trump’s very “nature” made it necessary to take precautions that aren’t necessary when dealing with an honest or honorable person.[...]The Atlantic The Five Lines of Defense Against Comey—and Why They Failed
But Comey also made clear that Trump, for the most part, cares about Russian interference in the election only to the extent that it impacts him. As Comey detailed in written testimony released on Wednesday
The final line of defense was presented by Trump’s personal lawyer after the hearing ended: Comey was the villain of the story for leaking “privileged” conversations with the president. The premise here seems to be that executive privilege somehow forever silences a terminated federal employee. This is an extremely weird argument:posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:30 PM on June 8, 2017 [39 favorites]
Trump did not invoke executive privilege to prevent Comey from speaking to Congress, the usual place where executive privilege is asserted.
Trump himself had spoken and tweeted about the conversation, which is usually taken to void executive privilege.
Executive privilege has never before been thought to impose a lifetime obligation of silence upon former members of the executive branch.
The Supreme Court case most directly on point, U.S. v. Nixon, established that executive privilege cannot be used to conceal evidence of crime, which is what Comey’s leak and subsequent sworn testimony, purportedly revealed.
Vox To Republicans, the winner of the Comey hearing was Donald Trump
“Was this overall a better day for the president than for those who want to impeach him? By far, much better for the president than for those that seek to impeach him,” Rep. Mark Meadows (R-NC) said.Republicans have said that the fact Comey wrote memos is suspicious, that the hearings and the memos are self-serving, and that Trump is just inexperienced or inept. My favorite argument is from Lindsey Graham:
To Meadows, and many others in the party, the president was “vindicated,” Comey’s firing did not directly impede any investigations into Trump’s team, and he gave no evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians.
After weeks of downplaying the allegations leaked in the press in anticipation of first-hand evidence, initial reactions to Comey’s testimony showed it didn’t really matter where the reports were coming from. Republicans don’t seem to think there is enough evidence for concern, or at least it’s not worth breaking ranks with the president over.
Thursday’s testimony turned into a test, and Republicans pledged their “honest loyalty” to Trump — without the president having to ask for it.
“I don't think [Trump] colluded with the Russians because he doesn't collude with his own staff," Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) told Washington Examiner's Susan Ferrechio earlier this week in anticipation of Comey’s testimony, attributing the alleged misconduct to the White House’s disorder.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
"The environment has changed and some of it changed on January 20," McSally told the crowd. "There's just an element out there that's just, like, so against the president. Like they just can't see straight. And all of a sudden on January 20, I'm like his twin sister to them. And I'm, like, responsible for everything he does, and tweets and says. And they want me to be spending my time as a pundit. 'I disagree with that. I agree with this.' I have a job in the legislature!
Dear Rep. McSally: Cry me a river and boo fucking hoo. Rats, sinking ships, etc. You (Republicans) broke it, you own it.
I can't help but feel that this is the first time in many congresspeople's lives that their constituents are holding their feet to the fire. Good. Public service isn't, or shouldn't be, just a cushy, undemanding place to park your butt for however long you feel like it.
In more uplifting news, looks like ol' Jefferson Beauregard "Confederate Keebler Elf" Sessions is in it up to his neck and there are tire marks on him from where he was thrown under the bus. I hope he winds up behind bars, and I don't mean his preferred "Stars And," either.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:41 PM on June 8, 2017 [36 favorites]
Dear Rep. McSally: Cry me a river and boo fucking hoo. Rats, sinking ships, etc. You (Republicans) broke it, you own it.
I can't help but feel that this is the first time in many congresspeople's lives that their constituents are holding their feet to the fire. Good. Public service isn't, or shouldn't be, just a cushy, undemanding place to park your butt for however long you feel like it.
In more uplifting news, looks like ol' Jefferson Beauregard "Confederate Keebler Elf" Sessions is in it up to his neck and there are tire marks on him from where he was thrown under the bus. I hope he winds up behind bars, and I don't mean his preferred "Stars And," either.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:41 PM on June 8, 2017 [36 favorites]
Apropos of nothing Comey related, the covfefe thing was what? A week ago?
Part of my job involves looking at all the new music tracks being released to Spotify/Apple Music/etc. each week and today I saw not one, not two, but four different tracks called "covfefe" coming through. I mean, I love the internet for jumping on the ball so quickly, but boy does it drive home the point that there are no original ideas out there in a world of 7 billion people.
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:44 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Part of my job involves looking at all the new music tracks being released to Spotify/Apple Music/etc. each week and today I saw not one, not two, but four different tracks called "covfefe" coming through. I mean, I love the internet for jumping on the ball so quickly, but boy does it drive home the point that there are no original ideas out there in a world of 7 billion people.
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:44 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
OMG from McSally's mouth to God/the Universe's ear, please!
McSally complained that President Donald Trump and his tweets were creating troubling "distractions" and "it's basically being taken out on me. Any Republican member of Congress, you are going down with the ship. And we're going to hand the gavel to Pelosi in 2018, they only need 28 seats and the path to that gavel being handed over is through my seat. And right now, it doesn't matter that it's me, it doesn't matter what I've done. I have an 'R' next to my name and right now, this environment would have me not prevail."[...]posted by Lexica at 4:45 PM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Four tracks called "covfefe," all four of which are already too late to be topical.
posted by biogeo at 4:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 4:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Kris Kobach to run for Kansas governor: "Kobach launched his campaign Thursday, decrying a 'culture of corruption' in Topeka and slamming the tax increase lawmakers forced into law earlier this week over Gov. Sam Brownback’s veto that is intended to raise $1.2 billion over the next two years. He vowed to slash spending through the attrition of retiring state workers and cutting off welfare benefits to undocumented immigrants."
posted by adamg at 4:52 PM on June 8, 2017
posted by adamg at 4:52 PM on June 8, 2017
He vowed to slash spending through the attrition of retiring state workers and cutting off welfare benefits to undocumented immigrants.
What the fuck? Is this a joke? I mean, I know it's not, but that's the stupidest thing I've read all day and I read the Comey transcripts about Trump.
posted by Justinian at 4:56 PM on June 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
What the fuck? Is this a joke? I mean, I know it's not, but that's the stupidest thing I've read all day and I read the Comey transcripts about Trump.
posted by Justinian at 4:56 PM on June 8, 2017 [29 favorites]
I can't help but feel that this is the first time in many congresspeople's lives that their constituents are holding their feet to the fire. Good.
Good indeed. What is giving me hope here is that the Republicans seem to believe this begins and ends with Trump. Meanwhile, progressives on district, municipal and state levels are finally starting to show some solidarity with one another. Conservative agendas are being resisted or rolled back. The GOP's insistence on defending Trump seems to be working against them. If House elections put a nice sized dent in their numbers - or even, who knows, gives the majority to the Dems - that could certainly get the ball rolling. And it's not like that's not without precedent: the GOP took the House in 1994 on the fury that Republican voters had for Clinton. The same dynamic could well work in the other direction, too.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:56 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Good indeed. What is giving me hope here is that the Republicans seem to believe this begins and ends with Trump. Meanwhile, progressives on district, municipal and state levels are finally starting to show some solidarity with one another. Conservative agendas are being resisted or rolled back. The GOP's insistence on defending Trump seems to be working against them. If House elections put a nice sized dent in their numbers - or even, who knows, gives the majority to the Dems - that could certainly get the ball rolling. And it's not like that's not without precedent: the GOP took the House in 1994 on the fury that Republican voters had for Clinton. The same dynamic could well work in the other direction, too.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:56 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Secret Life of Gravy: "Republicans have said that the fact Comey wrote memos is suspicious"
I was only able to catch the first third or so of the hearing (up to Wyden, I think?), but at least two senators asked specifically why Comey felt the need to document every interaction with Trump, even after that first one. Each time he was asked, Comey answered that it was a combination of things: 1) the circumstances, 2) the subject matter, and 3) the nature of the individual. When pressed on that last point, he basically said "Trump lies. Like, all the time." just in more polite terms. So, yeah, Republicans: the reason anyone has to document their interactions with Trump is because he lies all the fucking time.
Wasn't there an article earlier about how some law firm (possibly even one that was working for Trump) had a policy of never having their lawyers talk to him without at least one other lawyer present because they would just find out later on that he'd have a completely fictitious account of whatever was discussed.
posted by mhum at 4:57 PM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
I was only able to catch the first third or so of the hearing (up to Wyden, I think?), but at least two senators asked specifically why Comey felt the need to document every interaction with Trump, even after that first one. Each time he was asked, Comey answered that it was a combination of things: 1) the circumstances, 2) the subject matter, and 3) the nature of the individual. When pressed on that last point, he basically said "Trump lies. Like, all the time." just in more polite terms. So, yeah, Republicans: the reason anyone has to document their interactions with Trump is because he lies all the fucking time.
Wasn't there an article earlier about how some law firm (possibly even one that was working for Trump) had a policy of never having their lawyers talk to him without at least one other lawyer present because they would just find out later on that he'd have a completely fictitious account of whatever was discussed.
posted by mhum at 4:57 PM on June 8, 2017 [25 favorites]
kobach is the king of voter disenfranchisement, so it would be strange if his platform didn't have racist dogwhistles about unproven fraud.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:59 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 4:59 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
um, except for things like Emergency Medicaid (a very small percentage of the Medicaid budget) and WIC, undocumented immigrants are ineligible for most all forms of welfare already. So he's starting his campaign off with bullshit.
posted by zachlipton at 5:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
I thought Kris Kobach was busy with Trump's voter fraud panel. Must not be a full time job or he sees the writing on the wall and has realized it won't be a long term gig.
Please tell me that the Kansas voters are not going to fall for his dumb-assery. I would love to think of him wasting a lot of time and money and getting no traction but I shudder to think what he would do as Governor.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:01 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Please tell me that the Kansas voters are not going to fall for his dumb-assery. I would love to think of him wasting a lot of time and money and getting no traction but I shudder to think what he would do as Governor.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:01 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
Please tell me that the Kansas voters are not going to fall for his dumb-assery
I repeat myself on this but ahahahahahahaha.
posted by Talez at 5:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
I repeat myself on this but ahahahahahahaha.
posted by Talez at 5:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Wasn't there an article earlier about how some law firm (possibly even one that was working for Trump) had a policy of never having their lawyers talk to him without at least one other lawyer present because they would just find out later on that he'd have a completely fictitious account of whatever was discussed.
E.g., his bankruptcy attorneys from the 90's: Trump's lawyers testified they met with him in pairs to ensure he wouldn't lie about their meetings (Daily Kos, October 2016)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 5:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
E.g., his bankruptcy attorneys from the 90's: Trump's lawyers testified they met with him in pairs to ensure he wouldn't lie about their meetings (Daily Kos, October 2016)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 5:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Tell us again about your uncomfortable dinner with The Important Man, Mr. Comey
I watched the James Comey hearings completely sober so that you did not have to, and here is what was said:posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:06 PM on June 8, 2017 [22 favorites]
Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.): Hello, Mr. Comey. I am excited for you to testify today, but I am more excited for your real, hard-core testimony behind closed doors, of which this is only a preview. First off, I would like to say that I read your prepared statement. It had a lot of, uh, texture. You seem to be a very awkward man.
Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.): Before we start, just to be clear, this is not a witch hunt. If it were a witch hunt, I would have a big white wig, and we would have also called your demon familiar to the stand. Now, take it away.
Comey: Boy golly gosh, thank you! I am deeply troubled. I am quite troubled all the time. I knew I could be fired, but I was confused and concerned by the way it happened. Then the reasons shifted, and I was troubled. The president kept telling me that I was doing a good job and that everyone loved me, which did not trouble me, but then when he fired me he said it was the Hillary Clinton thing, and at that, I was VERY troubled. Then I was told that the FBI workforce was in disarray and that the administration had lost confidence in my leadership. And that was a LIE! The FBI has never been in disarray a day in its life. It is the one shining beacon of light that remains to us in this mess of a country. It is the only beautiful thing in this broken world. I just — I miss it so much.
From a hardcore red state Republican on my Facebook feed who voted for Trump and who posted "liberals need to get over the fact that they lost" stuff in January: "Comey for president 2020! [face with hearts for eyes emoji]"
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 5:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 5:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Bloomberg: Tech CEOs Cook, Bezos, Catz Said to Attend Kushner-Led Summit
posted by zachlipton at 5:23 PM on June 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
Leaders from the largest technology companies are set to visit the White House later this month for an inaugural meeting of President Donald Trump’s group formed to modernize government services, according to three people familiar with the plans. They will arrive weeks after many tech chiefs publicly split with Trump on his decision to exit the Paris climate deal.What the actual fuck is wrong with these people?
...
Eleven companies have been invited to participate in the June 19 summit, the people said. The list of planned attendees include Apple Inc. Chief Executive Officer Tim Cook, Microsoft Corp. CEO Satya Nadella, Amazon.com Inc. CEO Jeff Bezos, Oracle Co-CEO Safra Catz and International Business Machines Corp. CEO Ginni Rometty, the people said. Alphabet Inc. plans to send Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt.
posted by zachlipton at 5:23 PM on June 8, 2017 [33 favorites]
What the actual fuck is wrong with these people?
Forget it, zachlipton. It's Capitalism.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:24 PM on June 8, 2017 [56 favorites]
Forget it, zachlipton. It's Capitalism.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:24 PM on June 8, 2017 [56 favorites]
For the longest time, the agent just sits in silence. Finally, he manages, "That's a hell of an act. What do you call it?"
And the father says, "Capitalism!"
posted by Stunt at 5:30 PM on June 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
And the father says, "Capitalism!"
posted by Stunt at 5:30 PM on June 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
Would love to shame all of those people out of attending.
posted by rhizome at 5:36 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 5:36 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
in the "getting ahead of myself department ", is the president's immunity to prosecution due to the principle of sovereign immunity or is it specifically enumerated somewhere?
posted by murphy slaw at 5:40 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:40 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, in NC the legislature told Gov Cooper he cant call special session to redraw voting districts. WTF assholes this is why I want to leave this goddamn state
posted by yoga at 5:41 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by yoga at 5:41 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is gettin to be a pretty good time to hammer certain Republicans on hating democracy.
posted by rhizome at 5:46 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 5:46 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sarah Kendzior Comey testimony reveals Trump is running America like a crime boss
Since taking office, the President has run the U.S. more and more like a kleptocracy – a predictable move given his shady international ties and the corrupt nature of many of his past business ventures. But while Mr. Trump evokes foreign autocrats, his management style resembles that of an American mafioso. He views NATO as akin to a protection racket, public officials as personal minions, and the GOP as bound to a vow of Omerta. Refuse to comply, like Mr. Comey did, and face consequences.[...]posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [41 favorites]
Mr. Comey confirmed that the President could not be trusted to look out for anyone’s interest but his own, and that threats to national sovereignty were of lesser concern to him than whether he and his cronies are implicated. In other words, the person tasked with protecting the American people is a person from whom the American people need to be protected. Mr. Comey strongly affirmed that the U.S. had been attacked by Russia, and gave no indication that in their interactions, Mr. Trump found this situation undesirable.
Mr. Comey kept a diary as democracy was dying – his own job among its casualties.
NYT: Comey: Hero, Villain and Shakespearean Character Who Lived Up to Hype: On the 140th day of the Trump presidency — one for each allotted character on the executive Twitter feed that stayed conspicuously silent all Thursday morning — a very tall man with a very strange place in this very bewildering moment in American history strolled into Hart Senate Office Building 216, shot a quick glance at the masses arrayed behind him and presented a seen-it-all city with something unusual.
In a capital accustomed to overcooked spectacle and insufferable congressional testimony, James B. Comey delivered on the hype.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:51 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
In a capital accustomed to overcooked spectacle and insufferable congressional testimony, James B. Comey delivered on the hype.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:51 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Comey's tragic flaw is pride. It wasn't enough for him to be a man of integrity, he needed everyone to see he is a man of integrity. Thus all the email bullshit.
posted by Justinian at 5:58 PM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:58 PM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Wire creator David Simon has a long, awkwardly formatted Tweet storm on how WHAT WASN'T SAID by Trump is the greatest revelation in Comey's testimony:
Trump, uncharacteristically quiet on Twitter throughout Comey's testimony, has been figuratively looking at his fingernails. He knows.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:01 PM on June 8, 2017 [250 favorites]
A year with some good detectives taught me that often WHAT ISN'T SAID is the actual tell. And note what isn't discussed between Trump and Comey. At no point does Trump make any concerted effort to discern whether or not Russia did in fact attempt to interfere in the election. Indeed, he notes that the claim has created a cloud over his governance -- so he can scarcely say that it isn't of real concern to him; his concern is premised in this meeting. Yet, he doesn't inquire as to what Comey and the FBI is yet discerning about Russia's role. He doesn't even do so as a means of disparaging the claim. (i.e. "I'm sure you're finding out that there's nothing to the claims of Russian interference, right?" It. Doesn't. Come. Up.I'm quoting this in full in part as a reminder of how crucial creating a narrative is to building an argument. Comey understood this when he crafted his written statement, although as a lawman giving testimony, he could only stick to facts instead of wrapping them up in a conclusion like Simon can.
In this regard, I am reminded of every innocent and guilty man I ever witnessed in an interrogation room. The innocent ask a multitude of questions about what the detectives know, or why the cops might think X or Y or whether Z happened to the victim. The guilty forget to inquire. They know. An old law school saw tells young trial lawyers to remind their clients to stay curious in front of a jury.
There's a famous tale of a murder case in which the body of the defendant's wife had not been recovered yet he was charged with the killing. Defense attorney tells the jury in final argument there's been no crime and the supposed victim will walk through the courtroom doors in 10 seconds. 30 seconds later the door remains shut. "Ok, she isn't coming today. But the point is all of you on jury looked, and that my friends is reasonable doubt. You must acquit." Jury comes back in twenty minutes: Guilty. Attorney goes to the foreman: "I thought I had you." Foreman: "You had me and ten others. But juror number 8 didn't look at the door, he looke at your client. And he didn't eye the door, he was examining his nails."
Even when he was completely alone with Comey, Trump didn't look at the door. He eyed his nails. It's an absolute tell. Why? Because Trump already knows that there is some fixed amount of Russian interference on his behalf, and possibly, collusion as well.
Trump, uncharacteristically quiet on Twitter throughout Comey's testimony, has been figuratively looking at his fingernails. He knows.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:01 PM on June 8, 2017 [250 favorites]
WHAT WASN'T SAID by Trump is the greatest revelation in Comey's testimony
Precisely. This is what made Heinrich's question the real stunner of the day. Trump was never like "Whoah wait a minute this is really bad! A foreign power meddled in our fair democratic process?? Terrible!" Because he knows, of course. I really hope the Dems are savvy enough to bring the narrative back to this point.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:08 PM on June 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
Precisely. This is what made Heinrich's question the real stunner of the day. Trump was never like "Whoah wait a minute this is really bad! A foreign power meddled in our fair democratic process?? Terrible!" Because he knows, of course. I really hope the Dems are savvy enough to bring the narrative back to this point.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:08 PM on June 8, 2017 [37 favorites]
We're talking about the guy who openly stood on a stage in front of thousands of people and a gazillion reporters and cameras and asked Russia to hack Clinton's emails. We're talking about the guy who shooed everyone out of the room before he asked Comey to drop the Flynn investigation. Of course he knew what was going on. We don't even have to observe whether he looked at the door, we just have to listen to the words that came out of his mouth.
posted by zachlipton at 6:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:15 PM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
The Trump surrogate on CNN has spoken one sentence so far and I already want to throw-up. She said that today was a great day for the President because Comey came across as the quintessential Washington insider and... [this is when my eyes glazes over and a great rushing filled my ears].
posted by Justinian at 6:18 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:18 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Benjamin Wittes: On the “Nature of the Person”: Initial Thoughts on James Comey’s Testimony
This is the Trump presidency. There is no evidence that any chains can bind this president: not lawyers, not norms, not procedures, not repeated screw-ups of the sort that educate other leaders, and certainly not the mere expectations of decent public servants. But the problem is that the United States is responsible for his actions—and we are paying daily the price for them, particularly in our international relations but also in our domestic governance. It simply will not do any more for politicians to shield their eyes and say the equivalent of, “even if Trump did act inappropriately, and I’m not saying he did, it’s not my problem because he’s a beastly minotaur and no chains can bind him.”posted by zachlipton at 6:21 PM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
One way or another, we have to face the fact that we have a president about whom the FBI director, after meeting him once, began writing memos to file, because he did not trust him to tell the truth about their interactions or to respect the functioning of law enforcement—and that this seems, given the “nature of the person,” an entirely prudent course of conduct.
What the actual fuck is wrong with these people?
The king is mad and incapable, the court is in disarray, people are grabbing up power. The big corporations will take what they can get, of course. Judge Posner is trying to formalize "judicial interpretive updating" to describe the already-extant practice of the judiciary effectively amending legislation in the face of a legislature which has mostly abdicated its duties. Mattis and others are contradicting the president on matters of foreign policy. The USCA moves towards increased autonomy in some form, especially kinda poking at the federal foreign relations power. The Anonymous US Officials make their veiled proclamations regularly, which are taken as Gospel by the journos, unlike the brief chirpings of the president.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 6:21 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
The king is mad and incapable, the court is in disarray, people are grabbing up power. The big corporations will take what they can get, of course. Judge Posner is trying to formalize "judicial interpretive updating" to describe the already-extant practice of the judiciary effectively amending legislation in the face of a legislature which has mostly abdicated its duties. Mattis and others are contradicting the president on matters of foreign policy. The USCA moves towards increased autonomy in some form, especially kinda poking at the federal foreign relations power. The Anonymous US Officials make their veiled proclamations regularly, which are taken as Gospel by the journos, unlike the brief chirpings of the president.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 6:21 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
Please tell me that the Kansas voters are not going to fall for his dumb-assery
You have just put your finger on what's really the matter with Kansas.
posted by spitbull at 6:22 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
You have just put your finger on what's really the matter with Kansas.
posted by spitbull at 6:22 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Updated post-debate polling in GA-6: Ossoff pulls ahead
NEW POLL: Ossoff support increases after debate with Handel
NEW POLL: Ossoff support increases after debate with Handel
ATLANTA - The latest exclusive WSB, Landmark Communications Poll shows Democrat Jon Ossoff got a slight bump over Republican Karen Handel after his debate performance Tuesday night on Channel 2.posted by murphy slaw at 6:22 PM on June 8, 2017 [32 favorites]
The new poll shows 49.6 percent of the 420 likely voters polled June 6-7 said they would vote for Ossoff, a half-point increase from last week’s poll.
On the other side, 47.1 percent said they would vote for Handel, a half-point decrease from last week.
But with 3.3 percent undecided and a margin of error of 4.78 percent, Landmark Communications pollster Mark Rountree said the race remains too close to call.
Sounds like the votes are there for Ossoff and now it's all about getting them to the polls (or mailbox as the case may be). Come on guys this is the tip of the spear aimed at DONALD TRUMP'S BLACKENED HEART.
posted by Justinian at 6:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [28 favorites]
no pressure tho
posted by Justinian at 6:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [46 favorites]
NYT Thrush/Haberman: ‘We Are Going to Fight,’ Trump Says, but Calm Reigns During Comey Testimony
posted by zachlipton at 6:30 PM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
President Trump dipped in and out of the small dining room off the Oval Office on Thursday to monitor a television as James B. Comey, the ousted F.B.I. director, told a tortured tale — and to insist to his huddled legal team, “I was right.”um, it's pretty weird he had Mattis there. But it really speaks to him being so clueless that he's happy as long as people keep saying that he was not personally under investigation, even though he surely is under some kind of investigation right now. True to form, it's as if he doesn't care about anyone around him other than himself.
...
Mr. Trump’s default defiance masked a deep anxiety and anger, described by people close to him in recent days, that are anything but typical for even the most disruptive of presidents. But that eventually gave way to a sense of relief, however temporary, as Mr. Comey confirmed the president’s insistence that Mr. Comey had repeatedly told him that he was not personally under investigation in the inquiry into Russian election interference.
In all, Mr. Trump watched only about 45 minutes of Mr. Comey’s testimony, the people close to the president said. Much of that time was spent under the eye of his take-charge personal lawyer, Marc E. Kasowitz, and Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, one of the cabinet members he trusts most.
posted by zachlipton at 6:30 PM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
holy crap, this quote from NYT: Resigned to Trump’s Woes, G.O.P. Keeps Working on Legislative Goals
“Their calculation is that there’s no percentage in being public,” said Mike Murphy, a longtime Republican strategist and Trump critic. “Now I know what Vichy France must have felt like. Everybody is a patriot after 6 o’clock in the privacy of their own living room.”posted by murphy slaw at 6:30 PM on June 8, 2017 [60 favorites]
From Secret Life of Gravy's earlier post on GOP "reasons" why Trump won Comey day;
Comey’s firing did not directly impede any investigations into Trump’s team
Sure, I fired the gun at you, but I missed, so all good, right?
“I don't think [Trump] colluded with the Russians because he doesn't collude with his own staff," Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
He colludes with Russians instead of with his own staff, as any idiot can plainly see.
posted by Mental Wimp at 6:35 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Comey’s firing did not directly impede any investigations into Trump’s team
Sure, I fired the gun at you, but I missed, so all good, right?
“I don't think [Trump] colluded with the Russians because he doesn't collude with his own staff," Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
He colludes with Russians instead of with his own staff, as any idiot can plainly see.
posted by Mental Wimp at 6:35 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
Being successful is in no way a requirement for obstruction of justice. Incompetence is no defense. It's also not necessary to prove an underlying crime. Which makes sense if you think about it. If you had to prove an underlying crime to charge with obstruction everyone would go all-out on obstruction since if you can obstruct hard enough to prevent proving the underlying crime you get away with both and walk free.
posted by Justinian at 6:38 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:38 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
An alarming thread by Ilan Goldenberg:
posted by zachlipton at 6:38 PM on June 8, 2017 [65 favorites]
1. We're about to stumble into a full on war w/ Assad/Iran/Hezbollah in Eastern Syria & no one is watchingI would add that we're also doing all this without Congressional authorization. Obama caught flack for managing military operations out of the White House instead of delegating authorization to the field, but at least it prevented situations like this.
2. 3 times in last 3 weeks we've now had direct confrontations & killed Shia Militia/Hezbollah & likely IRGC
3. all of this is happening without any strategic deliberation.
4. Just a decision to delegate down to commander in the field for force protection reasons
5. We might end up in a war with Iran with no decision taken by Trump/Mattis/Tillerson/McMaster
6. no strategic plan or deliberative interagency policy process to figure out implications
7. this is basically a race between the US led coalition & Assad/Iran/Russia to retake remaining ISIS territory in Eastern Syria
8. There are strategic reasons for ensuring US takes this territory to cut off Iranian land bridge to Mediterranean
9. Also one of the best places where we can push back on Iran in the Middle East
10. I would be Ok if we had a serious deliberation and made strategic decision to keep Iranian forces out & fight
11. We control the air & can probably keep them out. It's a tough policy call, but a reasonable decision.
12. But we are NOT doing that. We're just telling our guys on the ground they can shoot if Assad/Iran get too close
13. Without a serious policy decision on what the actual plan is
14. That's a recipe for inadvertently getting into a war with no plan. I am not Ok with that
15. And yet with all the other crazy in Washington no one is even noticing. Sigh...
posted by zachlipton at 6:38 PM on June 8, 2017 [65 favorites]
Please tell me that the Kansas voters are not going to fall for his dumb-assery. I would love to think of him wasting a lot of time and money and getting no traction but I shudder to think what he would do as Governor.
I don't think he can pull it off. He's tightly associated with Brownback and the radicals, and Brownback is probably polling worse than syphillis at this point. Kobach's made a lot of enemies with the moderates, and the moderates are the ones in power now, post-veto override.
Even if he makes it to the general (would be surprising to me), he'll have a huge uphill battle in terms of increased number of Democrats voting (Go Wave of 2018!), and the willingness of enough moderate Republicans to cross party lines in the Governor's race. Many past moderates, like Governor Bill Graves, have even been willing to make public endorsements of Democrats. And remember: Kathleen Sebelius was Brownback's predecessor. A Democratic governor within recent memory.
Talez: I repeat myself on this but ahahahahahahaha.
Just stop. I mean, I get it. You think we're a bunch of fucking slackjawed yokels in Kansas.
But you were wrong about the voter revolt. It happened. You were wrong about the impact of that revolt.
No, Kansans don't always vote the way I want them to either. But there's a clear movement here back towards quiet and semi-responsible governance by Republicans, which is progress compared to where we were. We're in a good spot for the moment. The radicals are greatly reduced. The legislature is showing a way out for the GOP back to sanity. And, considering how dominant the GOP is here and in much of the country, a way out is a fucking wonderful thing.
So stop with the derision and assumptions. Some of us live here and are working to make it better. You're not helping in the slightest.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:41 PM on June 8, 2017 [95 favorites]
I don't think he can pull it off. He's tightly associated with Brownback and the radicals, and Brownback is probably polling worse than syphillis at this point. Kobach's made a lot of enemies with the moderates, and the moderates are the ones in power now, post-veto override.
Even if he makes it to the general (would be surprising to me), he'll have a huge uphill battle in terms of increased number of Democrats voting (Go Wave of 2018!), and the willingness of enough moderate Republicans to cross party lines in the Governor's race. Many past moderates, like Governor Bill Graves, have even been willing to make public endorsements of Democrats. And remember: Kathleen Sebelius was Brownback's predecessor. A Democratic governor within recent memory.
Talez: I repeat myself on this but ahahahahahahaha.
Just stop. I mean, I get it. You think we're a bunch of fucking slackjawed yokels in Kansas.
But you were wrong about the voter revolt. It happened. You were wrong about the impact of that revolt.
No, Kansans don't always vote the way I want them to either. But there's a clear movement here back towards quiet and semi-responsible governance by Republicans, which is progress compared to where we were. We're in a good spot for the moment. The radicals are greatly reduced. The legislature is showing a way out for the GOP back to sanity. And, considering how dominant the GOP is here and in much of the country, a way out is a fucking wonderful thing.
So stop with the derision and assumptions. Some of us live here and are working to make it better. You're not helping in the slightest.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:41 PM on June 8, 2017 [95 favorites]
Wasn't there an article earlier about how some law firm (possibly even one that was working for Trump) had a policy of never having their lawyers talk to him without at least one other lawyer present
Trump’s Lawyers Really Don’t Trust Him
Q: Was it necessary for both you and Mr. Miller to always attend the meeting —
A: We always do that.
Q: Always?
A: We tried to do it with Donald always if we could because Donald says certain things and then has a lack of memory.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:49 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump’s Lawyers Really Don’t Trust Him
Q: Was it necessary for both you and Mr. Miller to always attend the meeting —
A: We always do that.
Q: Always?
A: We tried to do it with Donald always if we could because Donald says certain things and then has a lack of memory.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:49 PM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]
Republicans do not follow rules
posted by dagosto at 6:50 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dagosto at 6:50 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
So stop with the derision and assumptions. Some of us live here and are working to make it better. You're not helping in the slightest.
Sorry. I won't do it in future.
posted by Talez at 6:56 PM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
Sorry. I won't do it in future.
posted by Talez at 6:56 PM on June 8, 2017 [23 favorites]
In all, Mr. Trump watched only about 45 minutes of Mr. Comey’s testimony
I feel the same way about checking my inbox when an email arrives that I expect contains bad news. I'll peek at it, then play some FreeCell, then look at it again, put my cursor over it, see if MeFi Recent Activity has anything new, Alt-Tab and see it's still unread, swipe a few on Tinder, go back to email, now it's lunchtime.
posted by rhizome at 7:37 PM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
I feel the same way about checking my inbox when an email arrives that I expect contains bad news. I'll peek at it, then play some FreeCell, then look at it again, put my cursor over it, see if MeFi Recent Activity has anything new, Alt-Tab and see it's still unread, swipe a few on Tinder, go back to email, now it's lunchtime.
posted by rhizome at 7:37 PM on June 8, 2017 [12 favorites]
OK. There are exactly two talking points the Trumpists are farting aloud:
"I hope..."
WELL LET'S US SEE IF THERE IS A LEGAL PRECEDENT UPHELD BY THE 8th CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS THAT LETS THINLY VEILED THREATS BE REGARDED AS ACTUAL THREATS IN AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE CASE! USING THE PHRASE "I HOPE" NO LESS!
It's a bold move, Cotton, let's see if it pays off!
Point number two, rhapsodized with poetic sadness... Comey comes in like a wreeeecking ball! Ruining politics for politicians! Why, look at our PERPETUAL BOOGEYMAN HILLARY... he did her wrong! Despite her plans to force America into Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism, he was wrong in divulging she had a few emails out of place, because of course we are concerned and not complicit.
He's a maverick! A cowboy, a gunfighter! He should have dug a hole six foot deep and laid down in it once Trump asked him to quash the investigation, just before Trump fired him to quash the investigation. No, there he goes again, meddling in politics just because he has evidence!
TRUMP DIDN'T USE THE WORDS STOP INVESTIGATING! DON'T YOU SEE? HE'S A COWBOY OUTLAW WHO MUST BE STOPPED BEFORE HE MEMOS AGAIN!
In short, Trump did nothing wrong, so long as we can steal a few more senate seats.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
"I hope..."
WELL LET'S US SEE IF THERE IS A LEGAL PRECEDENT UPHELD BY THE 8th CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS THAT LETS THINLY VEILED THREATS BE REGARDED AS ACTUAL THREATS IN AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE CASE! USING THE PHRASE "I HOPE" NO LESS!
It's a bold move, Cotton, let's see if it pays off!
Point number two, rhapsodized with poetic sadness... Comey comes in like a wreeeecking ball! Ruining politics for politicians! Why, look at our PERPETUAL BOOGEYMAN HILLARY... he did her wrong! Despite her plans to force America into Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism, he was wrong in divulging she had a few emails out of place, because of course we are concerned and not complicit.
He's a maverick! A cowboy, a gunfighter! He should have dug a hole six foot deep and laid down in it once Trump asked him to quash the investigation, just before Trump fired him to quash the investigation. No, there he goes again, meddling in politics just because he has evidence!
TRUMP DIDN'T USE THE WORDS STOP INVESTIGATING! DON'T YOU SEE? HE'S A COWBOY OUTLAW WHO MUST BE STOPPED BEFORE HE MEMOS AGAIN!
In short, Trump did nothing wrong, so long as we can steal a few more senate seats.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Republicans do not follow rules
Rules are for other people, duh.
posted by Rykey at 8:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Rules are for other people, duh.
posted by Rykey at 8:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Comey comes in like a wreeeecking ball!
We never fell so hard into neo-fascism
All Trump wanted was to build a wall
All he ever did was wreck the geopolitical stability of the world
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
We never fell so hard into neo-fascism
All Trump wanted was to build a wall
All he ever did was wreck the geopolitical stability of the world
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
The NYDaily News cover.
As I predicted, now that Comey has said "lying liar who lies" and gave them cover, every news outlet in the world will now go right ahead and do it without any more weaselly hemming and hawing about "misleading" and "intent" because heck, they're just quoting the guy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:04 PM on June 8, 2017 [55 favorites]
As I predicted, now that Comey has said "lying liar who lies" and gave them cover, every news outlet in the world will now go right ahead and do it without any more weaselly hemming and hawing about "misleading" and "intent" because heck, they're just quoting the guy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:04 PM on June 8, 2017 [55 favorites]
It's a bold move, Cotton, let's see if it pays off!
God, Cotton, please get cozy with him, just nuzzle riiiiight up so you get his tanning spray and stank all over you, and stay there until the shit comes crashing down and you're forever tainted so that not a human being in this state to the political left of Harrison, AR will want shit to do with your Gomer ass.
In my dreams Vic Snyder comes flying back in from retirement on a luck dragon, waving a flaming sword, beams of democracy pouring from his open mouth, each of his triplet sons shredding Flying V guitars on his own Doof Warrior rig, and you're begging people to hide you, but there's no hiding from a luck dragon
posted by middleclasstool at 8:47 PM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
God, Cotton, please get cozy with him, just nuzzle riiiiight up so you get his tanning spray and stank all over you, and stay there until the shit comes crashing down and you're forever tainted so that not a human being in this state to the political left of Harrison, AR will want shit to do with your Gomer ass.
In my dreams Vic Snyder comes flying back in from retirement on a luck dragon, waving a flaming sword, beams of democracy pouring from his open mouth, each of his triplet sons shredding Flying V guitars on his own Doof Warrior rig, and you're begging people to hide you, but there's no hiding from a luck dragon
posted by middleclasstool at 8:47 PM on June 8, 2017 [20 favorites]
Zeke Miller posted the RNC talking points on Comey on Twitter yesterday. Looks like they're sticking to the script so far.
posted by joedan at 9:03 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by joedan at 9:03 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ray Walston, Luck Dragon: "I'm not current enough to know for sure; did Republicans in Watergate continuously try to derail those investigations with spurious bullshit?"
Well, for example, Senate Watergate Committee minority counsel Fred Thompson was leaking stuff to the White House all the time. “Fred was working hammer and tong to defeat the investigation of finding out what happened to authorize Watergate and find out what the role of the president was.”
posted by Chrysostom at 9:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, for example, Senate Watergate Committee minority counsel Fred Thompson was leaking stuff to the White House all the time. “Fred was working hammer and tong to defeat the investigation of finding out what happened to authorize Watergate and find out what the role of the president was.”
posted by Chrysostom at 9:05 PM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]
Regarding the newspaper covers, Mr. Cardinal says, "So the goal is to try and get him to tweet?"
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:12 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:12 PM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]
Wait, "luck dragons" are a thing? I thought Ray Walston just liked those words
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:21 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:21 PM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
I always assumed that was an introduction: "Ray Walston, Luck Dragon. Luck Dragon, Ray Walston."
posted by mochapickle at 9:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 9:26 PM on June 8, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm coping by imagining a Better Call Saul commercial targeting Trump.
posted by juiceCake at 9:29 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by juiceCake at 9:29 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait, "luck dragons" are a thing?
Fukuryuu, tivalasvegas!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:46 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
Fukuryuu, tivalasvegas!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:46 PM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
(You guys stole my thunder on some of these, I gotta try to get online earlier!)
** GA-06:
** NC leg redistricting -- Also mentioned above, the legislature has said Gov Cooper's calling them for a special session for the SCOTUS mandated redistricting of state legislature LDs is illegal. I admit I'm unclear of what happens next here.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:57 PM on June 8, 2017 [40 favorites]
(You guys stole my thunder on some of these, I gotta try to get online earlier!)
** GA-06:
-- As mentioned upstream, a new Landmark poll has Ossoff up 49.6 to Handel 47.1. Ossoff has led in 9 of 12 runoff polls, Handel in only 2. Notable that his average is getting close to 50 - in round 1, it was more like low/mid 40s.** VA got -- Excellent in-depth look at the race from Larry Sabato. Interesting tidbit on the Lt Gov side (VA nominates the Lt Gov separate from the Gov) - one of the GOP candidates is suing another one.
-- Ossoff has raised crazy amounts of money directly - $8M prior to Apr 1, $15M since. Those are numbers you might see in a serious Senate race, not for a House seat. In the post-April period, Handel raised $3.8M. Note that candidates legally get cheaper ad rates on TV, which goes some way to negating the greater amount of GOP PAC spending.
-- 2nd and final debate was this morning. Nothing too earth-shattering, although apparently Handel said she has, "tremendous tentacles." I mean....
-- EV at 75K votes, still slightly tapering back - a lot of regularly voting people have already voted.
** NC leg redistricting -- Also mentioned above, the legislature has said Gov Cooper's calling them for a special session for the SCOTUS mandated redistricting of state legislature LDs is illegal. I admit I'm unclear of what happens next here.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:57 PM on June 8, 2017 [40 favorites]
Handel said she has, "tremendous tentacles." I mean....
Wait. Has she been hanging out with Kurt Eichenwald?
posted by zachlipton at 10:03 PM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
Wait. Has she been hanging out with Kurt Eichenwald?
posted by zachlipton at 10:03 PM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]
although apparently Handel said she has, "tremendous tentacles."
The other aliens are so pissed right now.
posted by bongo_x at 10:08 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
The other aliens are so pissed right now.
posted by bongo_x at 10:08 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait. Has she been hanging out with Kurt Eichenwald?
Or Lane Meyer?
posted by kirkaracha at 10:11 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]
UH, so still no Trump tweets? Maybe when Comey said he was moved to act (ask a friend to leak to the NYT) by a Trump tweet, everyone in the room yelled out, "Now you see what happens!???"
posted by notyou at 10:25 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by notyou at 10:25 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
We can't afford to relax (well, obviously, if you're going to go bonkers otherwise, I hope you take a break), so I'm reiterating FelliniBlank's post this afternoon about this great Twitter thread from Ben Wikler:
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 10:32 PM on June 8, 2017 [64 favorites]
Folks, if you're wondering what to do now that Comey has testified: DEFCON 5 ON TRUMPCARE. ALL HANDS ON DECK. Timeline & how to fight: 1/ . . .There are some comments about how Wikler gets the legislative assistants' email address format wrong, so it's worth reading the whole thread to get those corrections as well as his full ALL HANDS ON DECK call.
TIMELINE: The Senate GOP's plan is to pass this bill FAST—by June 30. Enough time to fight, no time to spare. Here are the steps. 2/ . . .
Senate learned their lesson from the House: silence is golden. Attention is the enemy. Comey testimony provides perfect cover. 8/
What I'm hearing on the Hill ranges from "they're within a vote or two" to "they have the votes." This is the doomsday scenario. BUT... 9/
Unlike the House vote, where most people only noticed the onrushing train in the final 48 hours, we have 3 weeks to make this toxic. 10/ . . . .
1. PHONES. Senators are telling me that their phones have returned to normal, pre-Trump levels. A few dozen calls a day. That must end. 12/ . . .
Don't just call Congress—recruit callers. Type "Friends in Tennessee" into Facebook. You'll get a list. Ask 'em to call Sen. Alexander. 15/
Your friends in TN WV LA ME TN AR AZ CO SC NV AK & OH miss you! Don't neglect them! Get in touch & ask 'em to call Congress re Trumpcare 16/ . . .
When you call a Senate office, ask to speak to the relevant Health Legislative Assistant. Hey look, a list of staffer names! 18/
When you get through, explain that you're a constituent and you have grave concerns about how the bill will affect you. Then explain WHY 19/
These staffers are human beings. They work on health care because they care about health. Even if their bosses don't. Tell your story. 20/
What you want is for health staffers to be telling their bosses that they've spent all day with the phone from freaked-out constituents 21/ . . . .
Incidentally, it's also worth EMAILING the legislative assistants w/personal notes. Here's how to figure out Hill staff email addresses 25/ . . .
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 10:32 PM on June 8, 2017 [64 favorites]
The DOJ released a statement in response to Comey's testimony that basically calls Comey a liar.
Of interest to me:
This mealy-mouthed release does nothing whatsoever to convince me that Sessions is an honest dealer. At all. I hope that this whole affair ends with Sessions in an orange jumpsuit.
posted by xyzzy at 11:07 PM on June 8, 2017 [61 favorites]
Of interest to me:
"Given Attorney General Sessions’ participation in President Trump’s campaign, it was for that reason, and that reason alone, the Attorney General made the decision on March 2, 2017 to recuse himself from any existing or future investigations of any matters related in any way to the campaigns for President of the United States."Emphasis mine. So if Sessions was informed that he had a duty to recuse due to his political relationship with the President and his campaign, why did he repeatedly state that he could see no reason he was required to recuse himself at the time? It wasn't until the reports of his meetings with Kislyak that he actually recused himself. This whole section smells like bullshit.
"Mr. Comey said, following a morning threat briefing, that he wanted to ensure he and his FBI staff were following proper communications protocol with the White House. The Attorney General was not silent; he responded to this comment by saying that the FBI and Department of Justice needed to be careful about following appropriate policies regarding contacts with the White House."This section also stinks to me. It insinuates that Comey is lying, but aside from that the response reported here is literally useless to Comey. Comey is asking Sessions to run interference and Sessions is responding by saying, "Yes, interference is the correct thing to do." But then he doesn't do it.
This mealy-mouthed release does nothing whatsoever to convince me that Sessions is an honest dealer. At all. I hope that this whole affair ends with Sessions in an orange jumpsuit.
posted by xyzzy at 11:07 PM on June 8, 2017 [61 favorites]
Comey as much as said that Sessions is in this as deep as anyone, and certainly implied that the info was for the taking in the closed door hearing. Any statement from Sessions' office has to be taken in light of the fact that Comey firmly placed his former boss in the bad guy column today.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:22 PM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:22 PM on June 8, 2017 [27 favorites]
It is my sincere hope that the turn of events in the UK elections will cause more than one Republican to pass a brick.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:25 AM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:25 AM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
Hey everybody, just wanted to drop in and share again my mantra since Nov. 9, which has helped me to maintain some perspective: This is not normal. We did not choose this. This is not normal. We are all victims of this. This is not normal.
I'm amazed this morning (traveling in the Netherlands currently) that Republicans are advancing these talking points. The idiocy and hubris really is astonishing: how do they not see the massive iceberg they are speeding toward?? At this point, I think we're looking at the collapse of significant portions of that party, which is, IMHO, loooong overdue, but I'm still surprised at their white-knuckled, this-is-fine staying of their horrible course. I don't live in the bubbles they do, I guess.
Because from outside the bubble, it looks like Trump brought all of his shady Russian money laundering contacts into the political arena, which presented a serendipitous opportunity for Sessions and the other initial organizing individuals, who persuaded Trump to run. This presented an even more enormous, two-fold opportunity to Putin because Trump is the personification of Russia's new modes of warfare (that would be the weaponization of hyperreality that I keep chattering about when I comment lately), and was completely receptive to whatever fuckery is going on with Rosneft, Exxon-Mobil and etc.
Most of the rest of it looks to me so far like venal opportunism by various other folks (including most of the Republican Party) and just terrible people being terrible. I do not give any of these players enough credit for a grand conspiracy, at all. I expect that most of the traitors and Russian collaborators in Trump's camp don't even realize the magnitude of what they've done.
(Also, for those behind the curve on Jill Stein and RT: I expect that Stein was bought a long time ago, specifically to help ensure that the Green Party doesn't become a serious organization. It's part of the strategy from the Foundations of Geopolitics: disrupt any "leftist" groups as early as possible. If they are thought of as clowns, there will be no core resistance to the fascists when their boot finally stomps down, or something.)
posted by LooseFilter at 2:17 AM on June 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
I'm amazed this morning (traveling in the Netherlands currently) that Republicans are advancing these talking points. The idiocy and hubris really is astonishing: how do they not see the massive iceberg they are speeding toward?? At this point, I think we're looking at the collapse of significant portions of that party, which is, IMHO, loooong overdue, but I'm still surprised at their white-knuckled, this-is-fine staying of their horrible course. I don't live in the bubbles they do, I guess.
Because from outside the bubble, it looks like Trump brought all of his shady Russian money laundering contacts into the political arena, which presented a serendipitous opportunity for Sessions and the other initial organizing individuals, who persuaded Trump to run. This presented an even more enormous, two-fold opportunity to Putin because Trump is the personification of Russia's new modes of warfare (that would be the weaponization of hyperreality that I keep chattering about when I comment lately), and was completely receptive to whatever fuckery is going on with Rosneft, Exxon-Mobil and etc.
Most of the rest of it looks to me so far like venal opportunism by various other folks (including most of the Republican Party) and just terrible people being terrible. I do not give any of these players enough credit for a grand conspiracy, at all. I expect that most of the traitors and Russian collaborators in Trump's camp don't even realize the magnitude of what they've done.
(Also, for those behind the curve on Jill Stein and RT: I expect that Stein was bought a long time ago, specifically to help ensure that the Green Party doesn't become a serious organization. It's part of the strategy from the Foundations of Geopolitics: disrupt any "leftist" groups as early as possible. If they are thought of as clowns, there will be no core resistance to the fascists when their boot finally stomps down, or something.)
posted by LooseFilter at 2:17 AM on June 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
how do they not see the massive iceberg they are speeding toward??
I think they see it, they are just trying to loot the country as much as possible before they hit. Thus the AHCA and tax "reform" and privatization masquerading as infrastructure spending.
posted by Justinian at 2:19 AM on June 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
I think they see it, they are just trying to loot the country as much as possible before they hit. Thus the AHCA and tax "reform" and privatization masquerading as infrastructure spending.
posted by Justinian at 2:19 AM on June 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
Man, if you'd told me 11/9 that in seven months I'd be grudgingly admiring Mr. Comey, I'd have said you're crazy.
posted by angrycat at 2:25 AM on June 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 2:25 AM on June 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
they are just trying to loot the country as much as possible before they hit.
True that, though the surprise and dismay from some of the dumber members of their congressional caucus is really shcadenfreude-ful in the most delightful ways. The comment upthread that also rings very true to me, is that it kind of looks like the Republicans spent 40 years building their control from local to state to national, and juuuust when it was all coming together they let Trump grab the wheel.
posted by LooseFilter at 3:04 AM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
True that, though the surprise and dismay from some of the dumber members of their congressional caucus is really shcadenfreude-ful in the most delightful ways. The comment upthread that also rings very true to me, is that it kind of looks like the Republicans spent 40 years building their control from local to state to national, and juuuust when it was all coming together they let Trump grab the wheel.
posted by LooseFilter at 3:04 AM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm just stunned that its been seven fucking months since the election. Maddow mentioned it last night and I just blurted out, "NO!" at the TV. I'm going to need to fortify myself for Tuesday's hearing with Jeff Sessions.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:09 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 3:09 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
We have our first post-hearing tweet:
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Despite so many false statements and lies, total and complete vindication...and WOW, Comey is a leaker!
(Not linking to the POS.)
posted by Room 641-A at 3:16 AM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Despite so many false statements and lies, total and complete vindication...and WOW, Comey is a leaker!
(Not linking to the POS.)
posted by Room 641-A at 3:16 AM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
Is it really a leak when you wrote the memo?
posted by Justinian at 3:17 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:17 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
"Wikileaks, I love wikileaks"
posted by PenDevil at 3:18 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 3:18 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
An open tap is not leaking.
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:19 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:19 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
I still can't believe that Paul Ryan continues to find ways to become even worse than he already is. Seriously, the Speaker of the US House of Representatives publicly stated yesterday that it's perfectly fine for the President to commit abuses of power and felonies, just as long as it's someone who's totally unfit and unqualified for the office.
Poor DJT. If only he had an Attorney General, White House counsel, Vice President, and Chief of Staff who TOTALLY KNOW how the White House is and isn't supposed to interact with the Justice Dept. and FBI and could have told him.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:26 AM on June 9, 2017 [45 favorites]
Poor DJT. If only he had an Attorney General, White House counsel, Vice President, and Chief of Staff who TOTALLY KNOW how the White House is and isn't supposed to interact with the Justice Dept. and FBI and could have told him.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:26 AM on June 9, 2017 [45 favorites]
Why was Mattis there with Trump? Man, that relationship, I do not get.
posted by angrycat at 3:29 AM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 3:29 AM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
The longer that the President of the United States remains unconcerned about foreign influence in and interference with our elections (and beyond), and continues to talk about himself instead, the more quickly he will no longer be President. I think all details and nuance will clear from this basic point for most Americans, soon: why isn't the President worried about that? No matter how it's investigated or discussed, or what other political concerns there may be, isn't the essential concern here foreign interference in our self-governance? Shouldn't the President, of all people, recognize this as the paramount, urgent threat?
I hope that the Democratic Party understands this and simply brushes aside any other questions, challenges, or framing intended to occlude or obfuscate: war is being waged on us in an entirely new way and we just noticed. So what are we going to do about that?? And why on earth is Trump completely indifferent to that?
posted by LooseFilter at 3:34 AM on June 9, 2017 [34 favorites]
I hope that the Democratic Party understands this and simply brushes aside any other questions, challenges, or framing intended to occlude or obfuscate: war is being waged on us in an entirely new way and we just noticed. So what are we going to do about that?? And why on earth is Trump completely indifferent to that?
posted by LooseFilter at 3:34 AM on June 9, 2017 [34 favorites]
Why was Mattis there with Trump? Man, that relationship, I do not get.
You have to understand that the image of Mattis that has been promoted is propaganda. He's only "Mad Dog" and a "warrior monk" in the sense that he's a bloodthirsty, rabidly crazed warmonger that resembles the worst of the Crusaders more than any other image his supporters have pushed. He is closer than ever to his unhinged fantasies about wiping Iran off the map, civilians be damned. Remember, the man is a war criminal that would happily watch families literally burn in order to score a victory. If you subscribe to Josh Marshall's silly "dignity wraith" concept, whatever little he had he likely sold to glass Tehran as soon as the proper excuses could be ginned up. Well, we're very rapidly approaching that point, and Mattis is probably so eager to get started that he has wet dreams every night and morning wood every day.
It's really scary that this man has a cult-like following among the most heavily-armed citizens of this country, both military and civilian. Many of these people believe a gun has more inherent rights to exist than large segments of humanity, and Muslims especially. Imagine David Miscavige with access to the largest arsenal (by a wide margin) in the entire history of humanity, and that's the kind of creepy behavior we're looking at. Keep all this in mind next time you see someone talking about his "moderating influence" or similar nonsense.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:44 AM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
You have to understand that the image of Mattis that has been promoted is propaganda. He's only "Mad Dog" and a "warrior monk" in the sense that he's a bloodthirsty, rabidly crazed warmonger that resembles the worst of the Crusaders more than any other image his supporters have pushed. He is closer than ever to his unhinged fantasies about wiping Iran off the map, civilians be damned. Remember, the man is a war criminal that would happily watch families literally burn in order to score a victory. If you subscribe to Josh Marshall's silly "dignity wraith" concept, whatever little he had he likely sold to glass Tehran as soon as the proper excuses could be ginned up. Well, we're very rapidly approaching that point, and Mattis is probably so eager to get started that he has wet dreams every night and morning wood every day.
It's really scary that this man has a cult-like following among the most heavily-armed citizens of this country, both military and civilian. Many of these people believe a gun has more inherent rights to exist than large segments of humanity, and Muslims especially. Imagine David Miscavige with access to the largest arsenal (by a wide margin) in the entire history of humanity, and that's the kind of creepy behavior we're looking at. Keep all this in mind next time you see someone talking about his "moderating influence" or similar nonsense.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:44 AM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
Beyond the inaccuracy of vindication and leaking, Comey was before Congress under oath so Trump's accusing him of perjury.
posted by chris24 at 4:48 AM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 4:48 AM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
Today is the last day of Infrastructure week. I don't know about you guys but I'm so inspired that I'm ready to pull on my bootstraps and go build a bridge myself-- it's the American can-do spirit in action. Who's with me?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 AM on June 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 AM on June 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
When John Podhoretz at the Murdoch-owned New York Post is saying this, maybe yesterday wasn't the vindication some think it is.
Trump’s in trouble after that Jim Comey hearing
Trump’s in trouble after that Jim Comey hearing
James Comey thinks, but did not say, that President Trump is going to be toast once the special counsel is done with him — and all because of three little words Trump might have sung in the manner of Elsa the Ice Queen: “Let this go.”posted by chris24 at 5:02 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Comey clearly intimated that Trump’s conduct toward him was an effort to obstruct justice when it came to the investigation of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn — and that special counsel Robert Mueller would be just the guy to get to the bottom of what is clearly an impeachable offense.
That was the key revelation of the former FBI director’s gripping Senate hearing Thursday. Comey said the president’s behavior at a February White House meeting — during which Trump cleared the room so he and Comey could have a private tete-a-tete about Flynn — had “stunned” him.
Is it really a leak when you wrote the memo?
Sen. Susan Collins was on MSNBC and said she considered it government work and thus it belonged to the FBI and wasn't Comey's to disseminate.
Which isn't really the point of the accusation, and that doesn't make it a leak, (she confirms it wasn't classified) but in an interview that was otherwise supportive of Comey's testimony, I thought it was a fair enough point to add here.
This comment should not be construed as an endorsement of Collins.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:11 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sen. Susan Collins was on MSNBC and said she considered it government work and thus it belonged to the FBI and wasn't Comey's to disseminate.
Which isn't really the point of the accusation, and that doesn't make it a leak, (she confirms it wasn't classified) but in an interview that was otherwise supportive of Comey's testimony, I thought it was a fair enough point to add here.
This comment should not be construed as an endorsement of Collins.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:11 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
> Sen. Susan Collins was on MSNBC and said she considered it government work and thus it belonged to the FBI and wasn't Comey's to disseminate. ... (she confirms it wasn't classified)
In which case I would argue that, it being unclassified gov't work, paid for by the public, it wasn't Comey's to hide.
But IANAL.
posted by Westringia F. at 5:23 AM on June 9, 2017 [46 favorites]
In which case I would argue that, it being unclassified gov't work, paid for by the public, it wasn't Comey's to hide.
But IANAL.
posted by Westringia F. at 5:23 AM on June 9, 2017 [46 favorites]
I hope that the Democratic Party understands this and simply brushes aside any other questions, challenges, or framing intended to occlude or obfuscate: war is being waged on us in an entirely new way and we just noticed. So what are we going to do about that?? And why on earth is Trump completely indifferent to that?
Imminent Dodd-Frank repeal, AHCA, reinstatement of clean water rules, rejoining Paris Climate Accord/impending war in Syria... I looked at Vox today and 70% of the stories were "Comey". People remember what gets shoved under their noses (unless they apply effective filters/have good attention hygiene habits/understand media dynamics). We have to shove it all under the public's noses.
A big part of making people understand just how this new type of war works is making them understand why it's effective, and showing them what they can do about it personally, in their space, and we have to compete for their attention against all this other weaponized information! This is gonna be hard.
For me, one thing I've found to be pretty effective in fighting weaponized information is "derailing the opposition narrative". Example: racist uncle says immigrants are stealing jobs. You know it doesn't work like that, but you also know he's bristling with talking points and shouty, so rather than say, "No they're not and here are numbers", say "Guess what, I knew this coach driver in Japan, Canadian guy, made $140k last year. He speaks Japanese, the locals love taking his bus because he's got crazy stories about how he stops with passengers at local izikayas and drinks. And, he didn't pay any income tax in the US, and gets to choose where he pays it locally in Japan. And he says the only people who ever complain that he's taking jobs are the local mafia. Basically, he drives underserved routes. He's on a shady investor visa though, so I'm not sure how long that's gonna last him." See all the caltrops for Republican talking points there? Straw man, but still. I do know that Canadian guy, or at I know a guy who claimed to be that. You have personal stories that don't slot neatly into any narrative, and those have the advantage of also being true, rather than made up R-type kill-the-poor lies.
That's not much, but this is a war of ideas, and we need to be faster, more personal, and more entertaining to win it. Weaponize your anecdotes.
posted by saysthis at 5:23 AM on June 9, 2017 [26 favorites]
Imminent Dodd-Frank repeal, AHCA, reinstatement of clean water rules, rejoining Paris Climate Accord/impending war in Syria... I looked at Vox today and 70% of the stories were "Comey". People remember what gets shoved under their noses (unless they apply effective filters/have good attention hygiene habits/understand media dynamics). We have to shove it all under the public's noses.
A big part of making people understand just how this new type of war works is making them understand why it's effective, and showing them what they can do about it personally, in their space, and we have to compete for their attention against all this other weaponized information! This is gonna be hard.
For me, one thing I've found to be pretty effective in fighting weaponized information is "derailing the opposition narrative". Example: racist uncle says immigrants are stealing jobs. You know it doesn't work like that, but you also know he's bristling with talking points and shouty, so rather than say, "No they're not and here are numbers", say "Guess what, I knew this coach driver in Japan, Canadian guy, made $140k last year. He speaks Japanese, the locals love taking his bus because he's got crazy stories about how he stops with passengers at local izikayas and drinks. And, he didn't pay any income tax in the US, and gets to choose where he pays it locally in Japan. And he says the only people who ever complain that he's taking jobs are the local mafia. Basically, he drives underserved routes. He's on a shady investor visa though, so I'm not sure how long that's gonna last him." See all the caltrops for Republican talking points there? Straw man, but still. I do know that Canadian guy, or at I know a guy who claimed to be that. You have personal stories that don't slot neatly into any narrative, and those have the advantage of also being true, rather than made up R-type kill-the-poor lies.
That's not much, but this is a war of ideas, and we need to be faster, more personal, and more entertaining to win it. Weaponize your anecdotes.
posted by saysthis at 5:23 AM on June 9, 2017 [26 favorites]
Why was Mattis there with Trump? Man, that relationship, I do not get.
You mean physically? My guess would be either "Trump asked him" or "He's hoping to influence him." He's gotten him to reverse a few things already, and seems to be treating him like a cross between a warlord and POTUS, which is only inaccurate on the POTUS side.
posted by corb at 5:26 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
You mean physically? My guess would be either "Trump asked him" or "He's hoping to influence him." He's gotten him to reverse a few things already, and seems to be treating him like a cross between a warlord and POTUS, which is only inaccurate on the POTUS side.
posted by corb at 5:26 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
@AP: BREAKING: Speaker Paul Ryan says FBI director needs to be independent, says Trump unfamiliar with protocol, `just new to this'
@PreetBharara Retweeted The Associated Press
Silly. DJT knew protocol well enough to attack, rally after campaign rally, the breach of "protocol" in Clinton's tarmac meeting with Lynch
---
In case Trump asking everyone else but Comey to leave the room wasn't obvious enough evidence of foreknowledge and intent.
posted by chris24 at 5:26 AM on June 9, 2017 [63 favorites]
@PreetBharara Retweeted The Associated Press
Silly. DJT knew protocol well enough to attack, rally after campaign rally, the breach of "protocol" in Clinton's tarmac meeting with Lynch
---
In case Trump asking everyone else but Comey to leave the room wasn't obvious enough evidence of foreknowledge and intent.
posted by chris24 at 5:26 AM on June 9, 2017 [63 favorites]
Not to steal Chrysotom's well-earned local election thunder, but holy shit.
An Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll released Friday shows Democrat Jon Ossoff has a 7-point edge over Republican Karen Handel in the nationally-watched race to represent Georgia’s 6th District.
The poll of likely voters has Ossoff leading Handel by a 51-44 margin ahead of the June 20 runoff. About 5 percent of voters are undecided. The margin of error is 4 percentage points.
posted by chris24 at 5:31 AM on June 9, 2017 [45 favorites]
An Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll released Friday shows Democrat Jon Ossoff has a 7-point edge over Republican Karen Handel in the nationally-watched race to represent Georgia’s 6th District.
The poll of likely voters has Ossoff leading Handel by a 51-44 margin ahead of the June 20 runoff. About 5 percent of voters are undecided. The margin of error is 4 percentage points.
posted by chris24 at 5:31 AM on June 9, 2017 [45 favorites]
What I want to know is, how did we end up in this bizarro universe where "He's totally inept and doesn't understand the role and responsibility he campaigned for" is a defense of the person in the office of the presidency?
I mean, I don't believe for a second that he didn't know what he was doing, but if that's your argument, shouldn't he now be stepping down out of acknowledgement that he was and is woefully unprepared for the position?
posted by tocts at 5:33 AM on June 9, 2017 [70 favorites]
I mean, I don't believe for a second that he didn't know what he was doing, but if that's your argument, shouldn't he now be stepping down out of acknowledgement that he was and is woefully unprepared for the position?
posted by tocts at 5:33 AM on June 9, 2017 [70 favorites]
So we can now see that the Republicans' defense of Trump is a two-pronged approach:
1) Donald is very... um... inexperienced? So it is not surprising he is very bad at his job, and therefore we must continue to support him.
2) The real scandal is that the American public found out about these bad... I mean inexperienced things that Donald did, due to LEAKING! Leaking of information that was NOT CLASSIFIED, the murkiest and most mysterious kind of leaking imaginable.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:37 AM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
1) Donald is very... um... inexperienced? So it is not surprising he is very bad at his job, and therefore we must continue to support him.
2) The real scandal is that the American public found out about these bad... I mean inexperienced things that Donald did, due to LEAKING! Leaking of information that was NOT CLASSIFIED, the murkiest and most mysterious kind of leaking imaginable.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:37 AM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
if that's your argument, shouldn't he now be stepping down out of acknowledgement that he was and is woefully unprepared for the position?
And since you supported him, isn't your judgement untrustworthy?
(THE ANSWER IS YES)
posted by petebest at 5:38 AM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
And since you supported him, isn't your judgement untrustworthy?
(THE ANSWER IS YES)
posted by petebest at 5:38 AM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
Every time a Republican claims it's inexperience and ineptitude a reporter should follow up by asking whether that means they're considering invoking the 25th amendment. If the guy is too stupid to follow the law, he's too stupid to be the head of the branch tasked with enforcing the law.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:39 AM on June 9, 2017 [68 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 5:39 AM on June 9, 2017 [68 favorites]
To which Trump's personal lawyer adds 3) My client is completely vindicated by this entirely false testimony.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:40 AM on June 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:40 AM on June 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
What I want to know is, how did we end up in this bizarro universe where "He's totally inept and doesn't understand the role and responsibility he campaigned for" is a defense of the person in the office of the presidency?
In what world does this guy make it through the three-month probationary period of literally any job on earth?
posted by Room 641-A at 5:43 AM on June 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
In what world does this guy make it through the three-month probationary period of literally any job on earth?
posted by Room 641-A at 5:43 AM on June 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
pathological liar
noun
1. a person who tells lies frequently, with no rational motive for doing so.
Hm. Maybe he's not pathological because he seems to be, well, Trump's Razoring everything.
Oh, here's the clarification.. He's a straight-up sociopath. Literally.
A sociopath is typically defined as someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others. A sociopath is often goal-oriented (i.e., lying is focused—it is done to get one’s way). Sociopaths have little regard or respect for the rights and feelings of others.
What baffles me is how this could have come to fruition from the GOP of all places.
posted by petebest at 5:48 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
noun
1. a person who tells lies frequently, with no rational motive for doing so.
Hm. Maybe he's not pathological because he seems to be, well, Trump's Razoring everything.
Oh, here's the clarification.. He's a straight-up sociopath. Literally.
A sociopath is typically defined as someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others. A sociopath is often goal-oriented (i.e., lying is focused—it is done to get one’s way). Sociopaths have little regard or respect for the rights and feelings of others.
What baffles me is how this could have come to fruition from the GOP of all places.
posted by petebest at 5:48 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
About 5 percent of voters are undecided.
I am a firm believer in democracy but hoo boy do voters make that difficult sometimes. How the hell can any human being be undecided at this point.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:56 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am a firm believer in democracy but hoo boy do voters make that difficult sometimes. How the hell can any human being be undecided at this point.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:56 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
About 5 percent of voters are undecided.
I am a firm believer in democracy but hoo boy do voters make that difficult sometimes. How the hell can any human being be undecided at this point.
Maybe long-time Republicans* who hate Trump but are having a hard time committing/admitting to voting D? Or similar?
* This has been a R seat forever. Before Price it was Gingrich's seat.
posted by chris24 at 5:58 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am a firm believer in democracy but hoo boy do voters make that difficult sometimes. How the hell can any human being be undecided at this point.
Maybe long-time Republicans* who hate Trump but are having a hard time committing/admitting to voting D? Or similar?
* This has been a R seat forever. Before Price it was Gingrich's seat.
posted by chris24 at 5:58 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Senate GOP 'worries' their Trumpcare isn't cruel enough
Medicaid Termination for the unworthy takes too long
Pre-existing conditions are allowed (!! O the GOPmanity)
It's Trumpcare Lite and we gotta shiv the poor
Yeah, Comey was fun, but let's get ready for actual federal shenanigans.
posted by petebest at 6:03 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Medicaid Termination for the unworthy takes too long
Pre-existing conditions are allowed (!! O the GOPmanity)
It's Trumpcare Lite and we gotta shiv the poor
Yeah, Comey was fun, but let's get ready for actual federal shenanigans.
posted by petebest at 6:03 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Sen. Susan Collins was on MSNBC and said she considered it government work and thus it belonged to the FBI and wasn't Comey's to disseminate.
Which isn't really the point of the accusation, and that doesn't make it a leak, (she confirms it wasn't classified) but in an interview that was otherwise supportive of Comey's testimony, I thought it was a fair enough point to add here.
Shit like this is why calling Susan Collins "moderate" is laughable. She's carrying water for Trump attacking the former FBI director with Trump's talking points when she KNOWS categorically that she's lying. Collins, like every single Republican, is Trump. There's no difference whatsoever.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:07 AM on June 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
Which isn't really the point of the accusation, and that doesn't make it a leak, (she confirms it wasn't classified) but in an interview that was otherwise supportive of Comey's testimony, I thought it was a fair enough point to add here.
Shit like this is why calling Susan Collins "moderate" is laughable. She's carrying water for Trump attacking the former FBI director with Trump's talking points when she KNOWS categorically that she's lying. Collins, like every single Republican, is Trump. There's no difference whatsoever.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:07 AM on June 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
Re: GOP's Comey talking points: so, tax returns, then?
(Use the resulting pause to slap them. Rinse and repeat.)
posted by petebest at 6:08 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Use the resulting pause to slap them. Rinse and repeat.)
posted by petebest at 6:08 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Claire McCaskill is not happy about efforts to shove the AHCA down the Senate's throat. (Link to Twitter video.)
posted by Superplin at 6:10 AM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Superplin at 6:10 AM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
Trump's personal lawyer to file complaint after Comey testimony, source says: President Trump’s lawyer will file a complaint with the Department of Justice’s Inspector General's Office and the Senate Judiciary Committee after it was revealed Thursday that former FBI director James Comey leaked memos to a friend in order to inform the media about conversations with the president, a source told Fox News.
Anyone have any insight into this process?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:12 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Anyone have any insight into this process?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:12 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
More specifically, does anyone have any insight into how much could come out in discovery during this process?
posted by bootlegpop at 6:16 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by bootlegpop at 6:16 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Anyone have any insight into this process?
The IG's office will take the complaint in hand, look very, very serious and tell Kasowitz "We'll get to the bottom of this." The IG will walk resolutely back to into the office and straight to the desk of the most junior person he can find, slap the complaint letter down on their desk and tell them, "Make this your lowest priority. I want a full report in no less than 23 years."
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:17 AM on June 9, 2017 [30 favorites]
The IG's office will take the complaint in hand, look very, very serious and tell Kasowitz "We'll get to the bottom of this." The IG will walk resolutely back to into the office and straight to the desk of the most junior person he can find, slap the complaint letter down on their desk and tell them, "Make this your lowest priority. I want a full report in no less than 23 years."
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:17 AM on June 9, 2017 [30 favorites]
That Republican plan is so politically despicable. "Let's phase out Medicaid funding...three years from now, after we are disassociated from it, in the chaos of an election...and that phase out won't be complete until 2027, when presumably we will all have retired or gone over to lucrative jobs in industry".
I mean, it's not just that they want to knife working Americans, they want to knife their own party down the road. These are such garbage people. They don't even have thieves' honor.
posted by Frowner at 6:24 AM on June 9, 2017 [77 favorites]
I mean, it's not just that they want to knife working Americans, they want to knife their own party down the road. These are such garbage people. They don't even have thieves' honor.
posted by Frowner at 6:24 AM on June 9, 2017 [77 favorites]
About 5 percent of voters are undecided.
I am a firm believer in democracy but hoo boy do voters make that difficult sometimes. How the hell can any human being be undecided at this point.
Do you watch The Good Place? The undecided voter is Jianyu/Jason Mendoza.
"I'm freakin' out, dog. There's so much thoughts in my brain it's like my head is filled with rocks."
posted by leotrotsky at 6:26 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
I am a firm believer in democracy but hoo boy do voters make that difficult sometimes. How the hell can any human being be undecided at this point.
Do you watch The Good Place? The undecided voter is Jianyu/Jason Mendoza.
"I'm freakin' out, dog. There's so much thoughts in my brain it's like my head is filled with rocks."
posted by leotrotsky at 6:26 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump's personal lawyer to file complaint after Comey testimony, source says
This is part of Trump's lifetime strategy of hurling lawsuits and counter-lawsuits at anyone who displeases him, regardless of their lack of legal merit. Often it has resulted in settlements which benefit him, or in complaints against him being dropped.
The DOJ Inspector General is going to assign this complaint to his top men. Top. Men.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:26 AM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
This is part of Trump's lifetime strategy of hurling lawsuits and counter-lawsuits at anyone who displeases him, regardless of their lack of legal merit. Often it has resulted in settlements which benefit him, or in complaints against him being dropped.
The DOJ Inspector General is going to assign this complaint to his top men. Top. Men.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:26 AM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
The complaint here is that Comey, a private citizen, told his friend about a non-classified conversation with the President, with the hope of achieving something. Earth-shattering stuff.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:28 AM on June 9, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:28 AM on June 9, 2017 [30 favorites]
There were various parts of Comey's testimony yesterday which were essentially the scene in Braveheart where William Wallace rallies his troops, the troops here being thirteen-thousand FBI agents who are going to come down on this aberration of an administration like a ton of extremely earnest and well-groomed bricks.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:34 AM on June 9, 2017 [65 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:34 AM on June 9, 2017 [65 favorites]
What about the NY branch of the FBI (one of the largest and most influential) who from accounts are gung-ho pro-Trump?
posted by PenDevil at 6:38 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 6:38 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Why was Mattis there with Trump? Man, that relationship, I do not get.
He's a walking, talking binky
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:40 AM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
He's a walking, talking binky
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:40 AM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Maybe the NY branch of the FBI is being forced to consider whether they have more loyalty to the FBI or to the guy attempting to destroy the FBI. I don't know how that is going to play out.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:46 AM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:46 AM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
in an interview that was otherwise supportive of Comey's testimony
This is the Moderate Republican Playbook now -- concern-trolling and nitpicking in sequence.
Step One -- A credible source makes a dozen allegations of actionable, impeachment-worthy, downright criminal activity against Trump.
Step Two -- A "moderate Republican" says "I completely agree with the dozen allegations of actionable, impeachment-worthy, downright criminal activity being made against the President... except for #3."
Step Three -- Repeat Step Two with a bunch of other "moderate Republicans" who, amazingly enough, have totally different points that they don't agree with.
Step Four -- "I think it's clear that since a lot of people have problems with most of these allegations of actionable, impeachment-worthy, downright criminal activity being made against the President, we shouldn't bother doing anything about the two or three that we couldn't even manage to get McCain to ramble against, even though any one of them would have resulted in a resignation in disgrace if any Republican in DC had a single operating vertebra."
posted by Etrigan at 6:46 AM on June 9, 2017 [48 favorites]
This is the Moderate Republican Playbook now -- concern-trolling and nitpicking in sequence.
Step One -- A credible source makes a dozen allegations of actionable, impeachment-worthy, downright criminal activity against Trump.
Step Two -- A "moderate Republican" says "I completely agree with the dozen allegations of actionable, impeachment-worthy, downright criminal activity being made against the President... except for #3."
Step Three -- Repeat Step Two with a bunch of other "moderate Republicans" who, amazingly enough, have totally different points that they don't agree with.
Step Four -- "I think it's clear that since a lot of people have problems with most of these allegations of actionable, impeachment-worthy, downright criminal activity being made against the President, we shouldn't bother doing anything about the two or three that we couldn't even manage to get McCain to ramble against, even though any one of them would have resulted in a resignation in disgrace if any Republican in DC had a single operating vertebra."
posted by Etrigan at 6:46 AM on June 9, 2017 [48 favorites]
Democrats plan to sue Trump over conflicts of interest
Dozens of House and Senate Democrats plan to sue President Donald Trump in the coming weeks, claiming he is breaking the law by refusing to relinquish ownership of his sprawling real-estate empire while it continues to profit from business with foreign governments.
The lawsuit follows months of threats from Democratic lawmakers that Trump, by refusing to sell off his companies or place them in a blind trust, is in ongoing violation of the Constitution’s emoluments clause — which prohibits the president from accepting gifts or payments from foreign governments — and might face consequences.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 6:48 AM on June 9, 2017 [85 favorites]
Dozens of House and Senate Democrats plan to sue President Donald Trump in the coming weeks, claiming he is breaking the law by refusing to relinquish ownership of his sprawling real-estate empire while it continues to profit from business with foreign governments.
The lawsuit follows months of threats from Democratic lawmakers that Trump, by refusing to sell off his companies or place them in a blind trust, is in ongoing violation of the Constitution’s emoluments clause — which prohibits the president from accepting gifts or payments from foreign governments — and might face consequences.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 6:48 AM on June 9, 2017 [85 favorites]
> Anyone have any insight into this process?
Slate has an article up now in response to this with an a brief analysis from a University of Texas School of Law professor. The short answer is that as long as the memos didn't contain anything classified the worst-case scenario for Comey is that he violated his employment agreement with the FBI. Since that's not a criminal matter, and Trump already fired him, I don't think he has much to worry about.
Really I think this is just posturing and giving his base something else to focus on. I don't think that's a particular smart move, since to me it looks more like an attempt to use the DoJ as a political weapon.
posted by papercrane at 6:52 AM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
Slate has an article up now in response to this with an a brief analysis from a University of Texas School of Law professor. The short answer is that as long as the memos didn't contain anything classified the worst-case scenario for Comey is that he violated his employment agreement with the FBI. Since that's not a criminal matter, and Trump already fired him, I don't think he has much to worry about.
Really I think this is just posturing and giving his base something else to focus on. I don't think that's a particular smart move, since to me it looks more like an attempt to use the DoJ as a political weapon.
posted by papercrane at 6:52 AM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
Maybe the NY branch of the FBI is being forced to consider whether they have more loyalty to the FBI or to the guy attempting to destroy the FBI. I don't know how that is going to play out.
Anecdata: I have two friends who are longtime FBI agents at a pretty decent level (not in NYC). To say they much prefer/respect Comey (and Mueller) to Trump would be an understatement.
posted by chris24 at 6:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Anecdata: I have two friends who are longtime FBI agents at a pretty decent level (not in NYC). To say they much prefer/respect Comey (and Mueller) to Trump would be an understatement.
posted by chris24 at 6:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump's personal lawyer to file complaint after Comey testimony, source says
He can file all the complaints he wants. DOJ IG only has jurisdiction over current employees; the worst they could do is fire him again.
posted by scalefree at 6:55 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
He can file all the complaints he wants. DOJ IG only has jurisdiction over current employees; the worst they could do is fire him again.
posted by scalefree at 6:55 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
The complaint here is that Comey, a private citizen, told his friend about a non-classified conversation with the President, with the hope of achieving something. Earth-shattering stuff.
I eagerly await them going after Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, and every other former Secretary that wrote a memoir based on their notes and memories of unclassified conversations with presidents.
posted by chris24 at 6:56 AM on June 9, 2017 [82 favorites]
I eagerly await them going after Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, and every other former Secretary that wrote a memoir based on their notes and memories of unclassified conversations with presidents.
posted by chris24 at 6:56 AM on June 9, 2017 [82 favorites]
> the worst-case scenario for Comey is that he violated his employment agreement with the FBI. Since that's not a criminal matter, ... I don't think he has much to worry about.
Isn't that what Comey said about Hillary's emails?
posted by klarck at 6:58 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Isn't that what Comey said about Hillary's emails?
posted by klarck at 6:58 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Today is the last day of Infrastructure week. I don't know about you guys but I'm so inspired that I'm ready to pull on my bootstraps and go build a bridge myself-- it's the American can-do spirit in action. Who's with me?
I know all the Infrastructure Week jokes are about Trump/Pence trying to distract us, but it's a real thing my company participates in every year, because we build roads and bridges and water and wastewater treatment plants. Our Twitter feed right now is full of pics of our people working on stuff that keeps society working and people alive, celebrating Infrastructure Week. Don't throw them under the bus because of these clowns, thanks.
posted by emjaybee at 7:09 AM on June 9, 2017 [38 favorites]
I know all the Infrastructure Week jokes are about Trump/Pence trying to distract us, but it's a real thing my company participates in every year, because we build roads and bridges and water and wastewater treatment plants. Our Twitter feed right now is full of pics of our people working on stuff that keeps society working and people alive, celebrating Infrastructure Week. Don't throw them under the bus because of these clowns, thanks.
posted by emjaybee at 7:09 AM on June 9, 2017 [38 favorites]
Dozens of House and Senate Democrats plan to sue President Donald Trump in the coming weeks, claiming he is breaking the law by refusing to relinquish ownership of his sprawling real-estate empire while it continues to profit from business with foreign governments.
1. Can Trump use DOJ to defend himself here? I'm guessing the right answer is, "No," but I'm not sure.
2. Can Trump use campaign dollars to defend himself? I'm guess the right answer is, "Yes," but I'm not sure
posted by leotrotsky at 7:10 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
1. Can Trump use DOJ to defend himself here? I'm guessing the right answer is, "No," but I'm not sure.
2. Can Trump use campaign dollars to defend himself? I'm guess the right answer is, "Yes," but I'm not sure
posted by leotrotsky at 7:10 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe the NY branch of the FBI is being forced to consider whether they have more loyalty to the FBI or to the guy attempting to destroy the FBI. I don't know how that is going to play out.
Anecdata: I have two friends who are longtime FBI agents at a pretty decent level (not in NYC). To say they much prefer/respect Comey (and Mueller) to Trump would be an understatement.
All that NY FBI stuff around the election was before Trump declared war on the FBI and started slandering their former Director. I also suspect a lot of it during the election was just Clinton Derangement Syndrome. She's not really in the picture now.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:14 AM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Anecdata: I have two friends who are longtime FBI agents at a pretty decent level (not in NYC). To say they much prefer/respect Comey (and Mueller) to Trump would be an understatement.
All that NY FBI stuff around the election was before Trump declared war on the FBI and started slandering their former Director. I also suspect a lot of it during the election was just Clinton Derangement Syndrome. She's not really in the picture now.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:14 AM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Someone should tell John McCain that
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:15 AM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:15 AM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
Emjaybee, thank you for that. Though my husband is in construction, I was completely unaware that Infrastructure Week is an actual thing that predates the jakeleg clown in the White House.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:16 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 7:16 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Don't confuse Infrastructure Week with Infrastructure Week.
Infrastructure Week is a real thing which has been going on for several years. This year it was in May.
In contrast, Infrastructure Week is a fake thing going on right now with staged bill signings and 80's flashbacks of firing air traffic controllers and fantastic visions of $800 billion in free magic money.
posted by steveminutillo at 7:27 AM on June 9, 2017 [52 favorites]
Infrastructure Week is a real thing which has been going on for several years. This year it was in May.
In contrast, Infrastructure Week is a fake thing going on right now with staged bill signings and 80's flashbacks of firing air traffic controllers and fantastic visions of $800 billion in free magic money.
posted by steveminutillo at 7:27 AM on June 9, 2017 [52 favorites]
Dems are filing that lawsuit - please please please let this go to discovery.
posted by azpenguin at 7:27 AM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 7:27 AM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
Infrastructure Weak
posted by thebrokedown at 7:32 AM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 7:32 AM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
TPM's Josh Marshall: Nope. Comey’s Assurance To Trump Was Far From a Clean Bill of Health
Another point from this article is that one of Comey's senior staff thought that the assurances were misleading because an investigation into a campaign necessarily implies an investigation into the leader (e.g., what did the leader know and when). Even in the case where such a leader is truly completely innocent--which I personally do not believe to be the case here--the investigators have to answer those questions.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:46 AM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
Comey as always is quite precise. “I thought it was fair to say what was literally true [regarding Trump not being under active counter-intelligence investigation].”Josh hits on a point that struck me while watching the testimony yesterday--that Comey "assurances" were very specific and limited to the timeframe to Comey's tenure as FBI Director during the last two administrations. If that bloviating jackass truly thinks he's been cleared by Comey's testimony, he's got another thing coming.
I’m not sure that’s wrong – Comey’s decision to give the assurance based on this reasoning. But I’m not sure Trump fully grasped the nature of the assurance. In fact, it seems quite clear he didn’t. One also gets the sense Comey didn’t walk the President through the narrowness of the assurance.
More importantly, many are treating the fact of this assurance – delivered three times – as Trump’s having received a clean bill of health on the collusion front. That is clearly not the case. To the degree we can judge on the basis of Comey’s testimony, it is likely more accurate to say that Trump’s potential role remains an open question but that investigators have yet to find specific evidence pointing to Trump’s collusion or evidence specific enough to open an investigation.
That is a very different thing.
Another point from this article is that one of Comey's senior staff thought that the assurances were misleading because an investigation into a campaign necessarily implies an investigation into the leader (e.g., what did the leader know and when). Even in the case where such a leader is truly completely innocent--which I personally do not believe to be the case here--the investigators have to answer those questions.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:46 AM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
The Comey Show, Boffo B.O.
Pundits who compared this to the Watergate and the McCarthy hearings did not oversell. The former FBI director’s mesmerizing account of his interactions with Trump already had been forecast to be the stuff, ratings-wise, of the M*A*S*H finale and latter-day Super Bowls rumored to have broken sewage systems in major markets as viewers glued to their seats throughout the proceeding finally all got up simultaneously to relieve themselves. It was so big the broadcast networks dumped their daytime fare to cover. So big that Nielsen plans to issue a collective audience stat on Friday, an exercise usually reserved for presidential inaugurations and State of the Union Addresses among Washington-set events.
Okay, which one of you wrote this?
posted by petebest at 7:50 AM on June 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
Pundits who compared this to the Watergate and the McCarthy hearings did not oversell. The former FBI director’s mesmerizing account of his interactions with Trump already had been forecast to be the stuff, ratings-wise, of the M*A*S*H finale and latter-day Super Bowls rumored to have broken sewage systems in major markets as viewers glued to their seats throughout the proceeding finally all got up simultaneously to relieve themselves. It was so big the broadcast networks dumped their daytime fare to cover. So big that Nielsen plans to issue a collective audience stat on Friday, an exercise usually reserved for presidential inaugurations and State of the Union Addresses among Washington-set events.
Okay, which one of you wrote this?
posted by petebest at 7:50 AM on June 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
> If that bloviating jackass truly thinks he's been cleared by Comey's testimony, he's got another thing coming.
"I'm indestructible!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:50 AM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
"I'm indestructible!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:50 AM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Am I misunderstanding the 'leak' angle? It seems like a "leak" implies that something that was classified, secret, or otherwise not meant for the public to see went public.
Which to me means that either a) the GOP is admitting that Trump was asking Comey for something he would prefer not to go public or b) the GOP thinks a public official should not be free to share benign information with the public.
Either is problematic??
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:56 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Which to me means that either a) the GOP is admitting that Trump was asking Comey for something he would prefer not to go public or b) the GOP thinks a public official should not be free to share benign information with the public.
Either is problematic??
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:56 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is bonkers but not surprising.
@kylegriffin1
Quite the story from Nancy Pelosi about her first meeting with Trump—and his insistence that he won the popular vote. (via @Morning_Joe)
VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 7:59 AM on June 9, 2017 [40 favorites]
@kylegriffin1
Quite the story from Nancy Pelosi about her first meeting with Trump—and his insistence that he won the popular vote. (via @Morning_Joe)
VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 7:59 AM on June 9, 2017 [40 favorites]
Either is problematic??
I don't think it's even that sophisticated. While what you describe is problematic, the GOP is merely using "leak" to try to smear Comey and paint him as dishonest and/or sneaky.
posted by Fleebnork at 8:00 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
I don't think it's even that sophisticated. While what you describe is problematic, the GOP is merely using "leak" to try to smear Comey and paint him as dishonest and/or sneaky.
posted by Fleebnork at 8:00 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, I think the GOP has now defined "leak" as "anyone talking to the press about something we wish they wouldn't."
posted by biogeo at 8:04 AM on June 9, 2017 [77 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 8:04 AM on June 9, 2017 [77 favorites]
Another point from this article is that one of Comey's senior staff thought that the assurances were misleading because an investigation into a campaign necessarily implies an investigation into the leader
I read somewhere (up thread maybe?) that part of the distinction is what they believe the leader's role is. If they had evidence that convinced the FBI that Trump had been turned and was/is acting as an agent for a foreign intelligence service, then they would have opened a counter-intelligence investigation into that leader. If it's just criminal collusion or obstruction of justice, then they're just a suspect connected to the CI investigation. That's supposedly the reason that Comey was careful to only admit that Trump was not currently the subject of any CI investigation. All Comey did was tell Trump that the FBI doesn't believe that Trump is fully a Russian asset, not that he isn't being investigated.
As Comey testified (IIRC) CI investigations focus more on the methods employed and information compromised vs. the FBI's more publically familiar criminal investigations where the methods used are only important insofar as they help you convict. In sense, the "subject" of a CI investigation is always the methods employed and that will only be a person if that person was the method.
posted by VTX at 8:05 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I read somewhere (up thread maybe?) that part of the distinction is what they believe the leader's role is. If they had evidence that convinced the FBI that Trump had been turned and was/is acting as an agent for a foreign intelligence service, then they would have opened a counter-intelligence investigation into that leader. If it's just criminal collusion or obstruction of justice, then they're just a suspect connected to the CI investigation. That's supposedly the reason that Comey was careful to only admit that Trump was not currently the subject of any CI investigation. All Comey did was tell Trump that the FBI doesn't believe that Trump is fully a Russian asset, not that he isn't being investigated.
As Comey testified (IIRC) CI investigations focus more on the methods employed and information compromised vs. the FBI's more publically familiar criminal investigations where the methods used are only important insofar as they help you convict. In sense, the "subject" of a CI investigation is always the methods employed and that will only be a person if that person was the method.
posted by VTX at 8:05 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm indestructible!
"You sure you just haven't made thousands of mistakes?"
posted by kirkaracha at 8:08 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think the GOP has now defined "leak" as "anyone talking to the press about something we wish they wouldn't."
Fake news: news we wish was fake
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:08 AM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
Fake news: news we wish was fake
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:08 AM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
If that bloviating jackass truly thinks he's been cleared by Comey's testimony, he's got another thing coming.
"I'm indestructible!"
"Now, I'll be unstoppab-"
posted by leotrotsky at 8:08 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
"I'm indestructible!"
"Now, I'll be unstoppab-"
posted by leotrotsky at 8:08 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes, I think the GOP has now defined "leak" as "anyone talking to the press about something we wish they wouldn't."
Kind of like how 'activist judge' means one who rules in a way we wish they hadn't.
posted by MtDewd at 8:11 AM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
Kind of like how 'activist judge' means one who rules in a way we wish they hadn't.
posted by MtDewd at 8:11 AM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
@kylegriffin1
Quite the story from Nancy Pelosi about her first meeting with Trump—and his insistence that he won the popular vote. (via @Morning_Joe)
VIDEO
Pelosi: "I wish he (Bush) were President now, I wish Mitt Romney were President, I wish John McCain were President, but for most of his voters it seemed like 'any mammal will do'."
That's a good line, but even better is how she lays out a completely non-partisan argument against him (and others of his ilk). When somebody doesn't acknowledge the basic underlying facts of reality, there's really nowhere you can go with them. You can't negotiate, you can't compromise, there's no ability to find middle ground when they'll deny the very existence of ground when it suits them.
Underlying reality as we know it just doesn't exist to him. That's why his administration is engaging in effectively, Presidential cosplay, with fake signings and impossible budgets that have no hope of getting out of Congress.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:15 AM on June 9, 2017 [72 favorites]
Quite the story from Nancy Pelosi about her first meeting with Trump—and his insistence that he won the popular vote. (via @Morning_Joe)
VIDEO
Pelosi: "I wish he (Bush) were President now, I wish Mitt Romney were President, I wish John McCain were President, but for most of his voters it seemed like 'any mammal will do'."
That's a good line, but even better is how she lays out a completely non-partisan argument against him (and others of his ilk). When somebody doesn't acknowledge the basic underlying facts of reality, there's really nowhere you can go with them. You can't negotiate, you can't compromise, there's no ability to find middle ground when they'll deny the very existence of ground when it suits them.
Underlying reality as we know it just doesn't exist to him. That's why his administration is engaging in effectively, Presidential cosplay, with fake signings and impossible budgets that have no hope of getting out of Congress.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:15 AM on June 9, 2017 [72 favorites]
Pelosi: "I wish [George W. Bush] were president now. I wish Mitt Romney were president. I wish [Sen.] John McCain were president. As far as the Republicans, the people that voted for [Trump], it's almost like any mammal will do. They were just voting."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:15 AM on June 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:15 AM on June 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
NANCY SMASH
posted by tonycpsu at 8:16 AM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:16 AM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
emjaybee, are you saying your coworkers are celebrating Infrastructure Week right now? I was under the impression that Infrastructure Week was in May, and that this week was just some made up Trumpian bullshit aimed at distracting some rubes.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 8:17 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 8:17 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
And for Kentucky Republicans, a reptile will do just fine.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:17 AM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:17 AM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
I see a lot of speculation of what would happen if the system actually worked, but I still get the impression that DJT could smear his own faeces on the walls of the Oval Office and the Republican answer would be "la la la la fake news", "buttery males", and "lookee, he's so new at this, so cute!!!", with the occasional "concerned" frowning. But is there a credible, realistic, workable road to impeachment at this stage? Can the Mueller probe, if it finds proof of collusion/treason/evil, result in actually starting the impeachment process?
posted by elgilito at 8:18 AM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by elgilito at 8:18 AM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Two issues I have not seen explicitly connected in these threads involves two terms used to describe the news media--lügenpresse and fake news. The former term--"lying press" in English--has a history of use in Germany going back over 150 years, but is especially associated with Nazi antisemitic, anti-communist, and xenophobic rhetoric, while the latter phrase has gained substantial traction in the US as a tool and marker of the neo-nazi, anti-American Putanist movement that has infected and metastasized in the Republican party.
After I made that connection, "fake news" has begun to sound much, much more sinister than I had original believed.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:19 AM on June 9, 2017 [65 favorites]
After I made that connection, "fake news" has begun to sound much, much more sinister than I had original believed.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:19 AM on June 9, 2017 [65 favorites]
"As far as the Republicans, the people that voted for [Trump], it's almost like any mammal will do. They were just voting."
...for the racist.
posted by chris24 at 8:21 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
...for the racist.
posted by chris24 at 8:21 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Right, but 'fake news' was stolen from US! We were using it to describe all those Macedonian websites with made up news articles. He stole it to describe stuff he didn't like.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:21 AM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:21 AM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
Trump can have "fake news."
I think "propaganda" gives a clearer idea of the intent and effect anyway.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:23 AM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
I think "propaganda" gives a clearer idea of the intent and effect anyway.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:23 AM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
Holy shit that Pelosi video is insane.
"And I'm not even counting California"
posted by eclectist at 8:29 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
"And I'm not even counting California"
posted by eclectist at 8:29 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think "propaganda" gives a clearer idea of the intent and effect anyway.
But propaganda can be true, as long as it's used to further a political goal. To point out, for example, that Arby's employs more people than the entire coal industry is to engage in propaganda, even though it's accurate. Trumpists just flat-out make things up and then accuse people who don't spread their lies of lying.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:29 AM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
But propaganda can be true, as long as it's used to further a political goal. To point out, for example, that Arby's employs more people than the entire coal industry is to engage in propaganda, even though it's accurate. Trumpists just flat-out make things up and then accuse people who don't spread their lies of lying.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:29 AM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Right, but 'fake news' was stolen from US! We were using it to describe all those Macedonian websites with made up news articles. He stole it to describe stuff he didn't like.
Regardless of the term's origination, I believe use to be the defining feature of a word. For better or worse (mostly worse), that term's been taken on by a specific group of people who espouse a white nationalist, nazi outlook and toss around the term lügenpresse, knowing full well that Göbbles and his ilk used it to demonize people and ideas that they didn't like.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:37 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Regardless of the term's origination, I believe use to be the defining feature of a word. For better or worse (mostly worse), that term's been taken on by a specific group of people who espouse a white nationalist, nazi outlook and toss around the term lügenpresse, knowing full well that Göbbles and his ilk used it to demonize people and ideas that they didn't like.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:37 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
I just spent 30 seconds trying to parse "buttery males", thanks a lot
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:38 AM on June 9, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:38 AM on June 9, 2017 [54 favorites]
VTX: That's supposedly the reason that Comey was careful to only admit that Trump was not currently the subject of any CI investigation. All Comey did was tell Trump that the FBI doesn't believe that Trump is fully a Russian asset, not that he isn't being investigated.
That is not my understanding at all. I watched the hearing yesterday, and at one point later in the hearing, Comey said that the FBI was not investigating Trump personally while Comey was still FBI director, and he went on (during the hearing) to say explicitly that the statement applied to any sort of investigation, whether criminal or counter intelligence.
posted by syzygy at 8:41 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
That is not my understanding at all. I watched the hearing yesterday, and at one point later in the hearing, Comey said that the FBI was not investigating Trump personally while Comey was still FBI director, and he went on (during the hearing) to say explicitly that the statement applied to any sort of investigation, whether criminal or counter intelligence.
posted by syzygy at 8:41 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
There were various parts of Comey's testimony yesterday which were essentially the scene in Braveheart where William Wallace rallies his troops, the troops here being thirteen-thousand FBI agents who are going to come down on this aberration of an administration like a ton of extremely earnest and well-groomed bricks.
So here's the thing about the earnestness. That's totally a real thing. One of the reasons the law enforcement folks hated the Clintons so much is that they feel like the Clintons cheated. Like they got away with something because they're sneaky. That's where the 'Slick Willie' epithet comes from. I'm not weighing in on the accuracy of that belief, I'm just noting the perception. That just pisses law enforcement folks off more than anything in the world, when people lie and cheat and get away with it. Raises hackles like you wouldn't believe.
Now look at Trump. Rich boy who lies and throws the beloved (in the Bureau) earnest FBI Director under the bus to cover his own treasonous ass, impugning the Director's honesty along the way.
Can you fucking imagine how pissed they are?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:41 AM on June 9, 2017 [51 favorites]
So here's the thing about the earnestness. That's totally a real thing. One of the reasons the law enforcement folks hated the Clintons so much is that they feel like the Clintons cheated. Like they got away with something because they're sneaky. That's where the 'Slick Willie' epithet comes from. I'm not weighing in on the accuracy of that belief, I'm just noting the perception. That just pisses law enforcement folks off more than anything in the world, when people lie and cheat and get away with it. Raises hackles like you wouldn't believe.
Now look at Trump. Rich boy who lies and throws the beloved (in the Bureau) earnest FBI Director under the bus to cover his own treasonous ass, impugning the Director's honesty along the way.
Can you fucking imagine how pissed they are?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:41 AM on June 9, 2017 [51 favorites]
Pelosi is out of her mind. That video is direct proof that she leaked details of privileged conversations between herself and the president to the mainstream media. Consequences will never be the same!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:45 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:45 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump speaking now, and seems completely stoned.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:47 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:47 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Chuck Tingle's American Democracy Slammed in the Rear by Buttery Males
posted by idiopath at 8:47 AM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 8:47 AM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Trump livestream here
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:48 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:48 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
As an aside, maybe it's because of the reboot, but does Director Comey and his suit and his hair and his earnestness remind anyone else of Dale Cooper?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:49 AM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:49 AM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
Via Philip Bump (WaPo), whistleblower attorney Steven Kohn says, about Toddler filing suit against Comey for releasing his notes:
posted by Dashy at 8:49 AM on June 9, 2017 [57 favorites]
... initiating an investigation because you don’t like somebody’s testimony could be considered obstruction. And in the whistleblower context, it’s both evidence of retaliation and, under some laws, could be an adverse retaliatory act itselfFree speech, baby orange. Free speech.
posted by Dashy at 8:49 AM on June 9, 2017 [57 favorites]
Has someone ever read more obviously from a teleprompter? Which, I mean, teleprompters are fine, but it looks like his neck hurts pretty bad from here.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:52 AM on June 9, 2017
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:52 AM on June 9, 2017
>I think "propaganda" gives a clearer idea of the intent and effect anyway.
But propaganda can be true, as long as it's used to further a political goal.
It can be, but you shouldn't count on it. If you really want to distinguish, you can always say "false propaganda," but the whole point is that its purveyors don't distinguish. True or false, doesn't matter, as long as it advances their agenda. Bullshit spread in the in the service of obtaining and keeping power. That's how I interpret the word "propaganda." The Russians are great at it.
The Nazis were good at it too. Not everything they said was false. But it was at best cherry picked. It was intellectually dishonest. Even the true information was shared in bad faith.
To point out, for example, that Arby's employs more people than the entire coal industry is to engage in propaganda,
Maybe, but there has to been a distinction between "messaging" and "propaganda." Or even "spin" or "framing" or "talking points" or "marketing" and propaganda.
We obviously have to get our messaging right, have to take care to get the framing right, have to stick to talking points sometimes if we want to be heard above the din, have to engage in "spin" and "marketing" even, if only to counter the use of those tactics against us.
But I think you can do all of that while still taking care that what you say is actually true. I think when you stop caring, that's when it degenerates into "propaganda."
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
But propaganda can be true, as long as it's used to further a political goal.
It can be, but you shouldn't count on it. If you really want to distinguish, you can always say "false propaganda," but the whole point is that its purveyors don't distinguish. True or false, doesn't matter, as long as it advances their agenda. Bullshit spread in the in the service of obtaining and keeping power. That's how I interpret the word "propaganda." The Russians are great at it.
The Nazis were good at it too. Not everything they said was false. But it was at best cherry picked. It was intellectually dishonest. Even the true information was shared in bad faith.
To point out, for example, that Arby's employs more people than the entire coal industry is to engage in propaganda,
Maybe, but there has to been a distinction between "messaging" and "propaganda." Or even "spin" or "framing" or "talking points" or "marketing" and propaganda.
We obviously have to get our messaging right, have to take care to get the framing right, have to stick to talking points sometimes if we want to be heard above the din, have to engage in "spin" and "marketing" even, if only to counter the use of those tactics against us.
But I think you can do all of that while still taking care that what you say is actually true. I think when you stop caring, that's when it degenerates into "propaganda."
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Excommunicated Cardinal: Two issues I have not seen explicitly connected in these threads involves two terms used to describe the news media--lügenpresse and fake news. The former term--"lying press" in English--has a history of use in Germany going back over 150 years, but is especially associated with Nazi antisemitic, anti-communist, and xenophobic rhetoric
The similarity between the concept of the Lügenpresse and 'fake news' is one that's been noted several times in the past year, especially by news media for German-speaking consumers, but also by US outlets, including Time back in October of 2016:
Donald Trump Supporters Are Using a Nazi Word to Attack Journalists
posted by syzygy at 8:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
The similarity between the concept of the Lügenpresse and 'fake news' is one that's been noted several times in the past year, especially by news media for German-speaking consumers, but also by US outlets, including Time back in October of 2016:
Donald Trump Supporters Are Using a Nazi Word to Attack Journalists
posted by syzygy at 8:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
He's literally flipping through binders (full of environment protection information, not women) during this speech. I gotta stop watching this.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:55 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:55 AM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump: "The Empire State Building took less than a year to build; people don't believe that but it's true."
Construction started: March 17, 1930
Completed: April 11, 1931
Oh thank goodness, I feared he had made an accurate statement
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:55 AM on June 9, 2017 [44 favorites]
Construction started: March 17, 1930
Completed: April 11, 1931
Oh thank goodness, I feared he had made an accurate statement
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:55 AM on June 9, 2017 [44 favorites]
Speaking of propaganda, NPR aired an interview with RT Editor-in-Chief Margarita Simonyan this morning. No transcript yet, but well worth a listen. She's quite provocative. Combative even.
posted by Surely This at 8:56 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Surely This at 8:56 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
MetaFilter: Weaponise your anecdotes.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:57 AM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 8:57 AM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Very interesting interview with the RT head. Asked if she had personal opinions about Putin, I expected her to say "Yes, but I'm a journalist so we don't talk about that", but instead she waxes poetic about how wonderful he is.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:58 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:58 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sometime before Trump is kicked out/goes to jail I'd like to see someone go up to one of his dumb stacks of prop folders and tip the blank pages all over the stage.
posted by Artw at 8:59 AM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:59 AM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
For those of us who f*ing hate Twitter, here's the YouTube version of the Nancy Pelosi Interview on Morning Joe
And yes, . . . not normal. Nixon didn't have cable news morning shows to account for.
And I think I'm the only one, but I used to get Pelosi and Feinstein confused. I like the one okay, the other not so much
posted by petebest at 8:59 AM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
And yes, . . . not normal. Nixon didn't have cable news morning shows to account for.
And I think I'm the only one, but I used to get Pelosi and Feinstein confused. I like the one okay, the other not so much
posted by petebest at 8:59 AM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Infrastructure" in Trump's mind seems to be the buzzword for gutting environmental and public health laws. Probably OSH too.
posted by bonehead at 9:03 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 9:03 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also liked the interview. Her basic position is, we were poor and hungry, and Putin improved our lives. He made Russia better for Russians. She also says, when asked if she'd publish negative stories about Putin that (I'm paraphrasing) "If I thought he was acting in a way that would hurt Russia, I would."
Recognize that means she's giving him a really wide range of fuckery so long as she thinks his heart's in the right place.
But I can see how someone could act from a position of good faith if that's their world view.
Of course, that sure doesn't make them good guys.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:03 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Recognize that means she's giving him a really wide range of fuckery so long as she thinks his heart's in the right place.
But I can see how someone could act from a position of good faith if that's their world view.
Of course, that sure doesn't make them good guys.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:03 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
MeFi's Heartthrob David Brooks, NYT: It’s Not the Crime, It’s the Culture
He's wrong that Comey revealed nothing impeachable, but that's moot anyway. I think he's right that the investigation will hamstring the Republican agenda.
He's wrong that Comey revealed nothing impeachable, but that's moot anyway. I think he's right that the investigation will hamstring the Republican agenda.
[…]the Trump administration will probably not be brought down by outside forces. It will be incapacitated from within, by the bile, rage and back-stabbing that are already at record levels in the White House staff, by the dueling betrayals of the intimates Trump abuses so wretchedly.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:03 AM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
Although there may be no serious collusion with the Russians, there is now certain to be a wide-ranging independent investigation into all things Trump.
These investigations will take a White House that is already acidic and turn it sulfuric. James Hohmann and Joanie Greve had a superb piece in the Daily 202 section of The Washington Post. They compiled the lessons people in the Clinton administration learned from the Whitewater scandal, and applied them to the Trump White House.
[…]
If anything, the Trump investigation will probably be more devastating than the Whitewater scandals. The Clinton team was a few shady characters surrounded by a large group of super-competent straight arrows. The Trump administration is shady characters through and through. Clinton himself was a savvy operator. Trump is a rage-prone obsessive who will be consumed by this.
Comey said that the FBI was not investigating Trump personally while Comey was still FBI director, and he went on (during the hearing) to say explicitly that the statement applied to any sort of investigation, whether criminal or counter intelligence.
Well right, there isn't a form anywhere in the FBI with the field "Subject of Investigation" filled in with "Donald J Trump" but that doesn't mean he isn't being investigated as a suspect connected to the subject of some other investigation. If Trump is a suspect connected to the Russian CI investigation, Comey's statement is still true.
I think that Trump IS being investigated as a suspect in connection with the Russian interference in the 2016 election. If Michael Flynn is the subject of a separate investigation, then Trump is likely a suspect in connection with that investigation as well. I think Trump is dirty as hell, the FBI knows it and is looking at him real hard, he's just not technically the official subject for official record keeping purposes on those or any other investigations.
So Comey's answer to Trump was technically correct but Trump mistakenly inferred from that that his name was cleared when it was anything but.
posted by VTX at 9:11 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well right, there isn't a form anywhere in the FBI with the field "Subject of Investigation" filled in with "Donald J Trump" but that doesn't mean he isn't being investigated as a suspect connected to the subject of some other investigation. If Trump is a suspect connected to the Russian CI investigation, Comey's statement is still true.
I think that Trump IS being investigated as a suspect in connection with the Russian interference in the 2016 election. If Michael Flynn is the subject of a separate investigation, then Trump is likely a suspect in connection with that investigation as well. I think Trump is dirty as hell, the FBI knows it and is looking at him real hard, he's just not technically the official subject for official record keeping purposes on those or any other investigations.
So Comey's answer to Trump was technically correct but Trump mistakenly inferred from that that his name was cleared when it was anything but.
posted by VTX at 9:11 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
So Mueller has brought Deputy solicitor general Michael Dreeben onto the team, a criminal law expert. Reactions on my Twitter feed are that he is one of the top guys to pick for a case like this, someone who's well-regarded by career DOJ folks for being apolitical, and that Mueller may already be preparing criminal charges.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:12 AM on June 9, 2017 [90 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 9:12 AM on June 9, 2017 [90 favorites]
Trump can have "fake news."
He already does - he very quickly succeeded in "poisoning the well" w/r/t this term, as mentioned above, just after stories of Macedonian clickbait (Hilary dying of cancer etc) came out. This is why it was a terrible mistake to apply the term "fake news" to the bogus arms deal announced, as many headline writers did. The poisoning the well manuver has succesfully rendered the epithet "fake news" meaningless; they should have said "Saudi Arms Deal Was A Lie" or "...Was a Fabrication", not ".....was 'Fake News'". Claims of something being "fake news" are almost always bullshit now, since they normally come from Trump, when referencing any news story he dislikes, or when insulting the media as a whole.
posted by thelonius at 9:13 AM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
He already does - he very quickly succeeded in "poisoning the well" w/r/t this term, as mentioned above, just after stories of Macedonian clickbait (Hilary dying of cancer etc) came out. This is why it was a terrible mistake to apply the term "fake news" to the bogus arms deal announced, as many headline writers did. The poisoning the well manuver has succesfully rendered the epithet "fake news" meaningless; they should have said "Saudi Arms Deal Was A Lie" or "...Was a Fabrication", not ".....was 'Fake News'". Claims of something being "fake news" are almost always bullshit now, since they normally come from Trump, when referencing any news story he dislikes, or when insulting the media as a whole.
posted by thelonius at 9:13 AM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Paul Kane, WaPo: Republicans close ranks around Trump during Comey testimony
For those wondering whether Republicans are ready to make a sharp break from Trump, think again. Rubio was among a vast majority of the Republicans on the committee who, judging from the questioning of Comey, could well be described as Trump’s political defense team.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:16 AM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), who earlier this year pushed for a more forceful Russia investigation, pressed Comey on his decision to leak a Trump-related memo through a friend to the New York Times. Sen. James Lankford (R-Okla.), who has questioned Trump’s posture toward Russia, dismissed Comey’s claim that Trump was pressuring him to drop the probe as “a pretty light touch.”
And across the Capitol, as Comey was midway through his testimony, House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) dismissed Trump’s demands of “loyalty” from Comey as the actions of a novice politician who does not understand that the FBI needs to maintain its independence from political influence. “He’s just new to this,” Ryan said of Trump.
While I agree with you that Trump mistakenly inferred from Comey's statements that he had been cleared, I still think your understanding of Comey's answer is incorrect.
Also during the hearing, Comey mentioned the 'duty to correct' and the single intelligence official who did not agree with Comey's decision to tell Trump that he was not being personally investigated by the FBI. The point here was that, while Trump was not, at that time, personally under investigation, there was a real chance that the FBI would eventually open an investigation on him.
I think it's splitting hairs to some extent, but it seemed obvious from Comey's testimony there is a discrete point in time at which the FBI can be said to open an official investigation into a specific person. Prior to that point in time, the person is not being personally investigated by the FBI (even though those in his near orbit may be). After that point in time, and until the investigation is concluded, the person is being personally investigated by the FBI.
According to Comey, Trump was not being personally investigated by the FBI while Comey was still FBI director.
posted by syzygy at 9:19 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also during the hearing, Comey mentioned the 'duty to correct' and the single intelligence official who did not agree with Comey's decision to tell Trump that he was not being personally investigated by the FBI. The point here was that, while Trump was not, at that time, personally under investigation, there was a real chance that the FBI would eventually open an investigation on him.
I think it's splitting hairs to some extent, but it seemed obvious from Comey's testimony there is a discrete point in time at which the FBI can be said to open an official investigation into a specific person. Prior to that point in time, the person is not being personally investigated by the FBI (even though those in his near orbit may be). After that point in time, and until the investigation is concluded, the person is being personally investigated by the FBI.
According to Comey, Trump was not being personally investigated by the FBI while Comey was still FBI director.
posted by syzygy at 9:19 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
And just to be clear, I wouldn't doubt it if Trump was being personally investigated right now, and sincerely hope that, if he's not, the FBI will open an investigation of him, personally, soon.
That's where I think Trump's understanding was wrong. The fact that an individual is not being personally investigated by the FBI at any given time is no guarantee that the FBI will never open a personal investigation of that individual.
posted by syzygy at 9:22 AM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
That's where I think Trump's understanding was wrong. The fact that an individual is not being personally investigated by the FBI at any given time is no guarantee that the FBI will never open a personal investigation of that individual.
posted by syzygy at 9:22 AM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
I also heard the NPR interview with the RT editor-in-chief but my take was that for the first half she came off as a Russian version of the alt-right news people. She kept rudely interrupting the interviewer and saying stuff along the lines of "you mainstream media people just want your sound bite and I have to counter all your propaganda". Like zero credibility frankly. I did appreciate her more personal notes about how life for Russians seemed to magically improve under Putin, but that doesn't give her org the right to just make up bullshit.
posted by freecellwizard at 9:25 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by freecellwizard at 9:25 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
No current investigation ≠ exoneration.
posted by chris24 at 9:28 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 9:28 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Philip Bump, WaPo: There’s no indication Comey violated the law. Trump may be about to.
It’s ... worth noting that Trump’s tweeted attacks on the veracity of Comey’s testimony are ... unlikely to bear much fruit. Making a mistake in testimony is not in itself illegal. When Comey made such a mistake last month, the FBI corrected his statement after the fact. Perjury requires a demonstration of intent, that the person meant to lie. That would be a difficult case to make legally.posted by ZeusHumms at 9:29 AM on June 9, 2017 [45 favorites]
We can safely assume, though, that Trump’s team is aware that Comey likely didn’t violate any laws, and that they are simply using these arguments as a tool for undermining the parts of his testimony that they didn’t like. How they’re doing it, though, could make their problems worse.
[Stephen Kohn, partner at a law firm focused on whistleblower protection,] summarized the new minefield into which Trump and his lawyer might be walking.
“They know that they’re not going to get anything out of Comey on this, because there’s no evidence,” he added. “But they’re clearly trying to create a chilling effect. Not a chilling effect on classified information. … This is a chilling effect on people not to talk about conversations they had with the president that are not classified as a matter of law.”
“That is illegal,” he said. “That is unconstitutional.”
Only in Republican America can the Presidency of the United States be considered an entry-level job where you are granted miles of latitude to make mistakes allegedly borne of ignorance of the rights and responsibilities of the position*.
* offer only valid for rich white, Republican men
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:38 AM on June 9, 2017 [98 favorites]
* offer only valid for rich white, Republican men
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:38 AM on June 9, 2017 [98 favorites]
* offer only valid for rich white, Republican men
@KaivanShroff
What people mean by "white male privilege" is a billionaire who claims he is a genius and should run country, then cries "I'm new at this."
posted by chris24 at 9:39 AM on June 9, 2017 [176 favorites]
@KaivanShroff
What people mean by "white male privilege" is a billionaire who claims he is a genius and should run country, then cries "I'm new at this."
posted by chris24 at 9:39 AM on June 9, 2017 [176 favorites]
We can safely assume, though, that Trump’s team is aware that Comey likely didn’t violate any laws,...
I seriously don't think we can safely assume that. I suspect Drump's personal lawyer is in way over his head here, and is sure Comey must've broken a law just because Drump says so, and he's probably desperately trying to figure out which one.
posted by dnash at 9:42 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
I seriously don't think we can safely assume that. I suspect Drump's personal lawyer is in way over his head here, and is sure Comey must've broken a law just because Drump says so, and he's probably desperately trying to figure out which one.
posted by dnash at 9:42 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
The fact that an individual is not being personally investigated by the FBI at any given time is no guarantee that the FBI will never open a personal investigation of that individual.
In 2007, Bernie Madoff wasn't the subject of an active FBI investigation (so far as I can tell), and the SEC had closed its fraud case on him.
posted by mabelstreet at 9:51 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
In 2007, Bernie Madoff wasn't the subject of an active FBI investigation (so far as I can tell), and the SEC had closed its fraud case on him.
posted by mabelstreet at 9:51 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
The "he's just new at this guys, lol c'mon" defense is especially pathetic considering the GOP roundly criticized Obama for being "too inexperienced" in 2008.
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:00 AM on June 9, 2017 [77 favorites]
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:00 AM on June 9, 2017 [77 favorites]
only i can fix it, as soon as you all finish explaining exactly what "it" is, in words of one syllable with my name interspersed randomly
posted by murphy slaw at 10:06 AM on June 9, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 10:06 AM on June 9, 2017 [32 favorites]
Remember when the Republicans accused the Democratic candidate of being unqualified for the presidency because he was an inexperienced "celebrity"?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:10 AM on June 9, 2017 [34 favorites]
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:10 AM on June 9, 2017 [34 favorites]
Surely This:
The interviewer says to her in what seemed like a joking tone at first I hear that you have a special phone for talking to Kremlin officials! and she started to respond, Yes, I have a phone in my office...
The way the interview had gone so far I expected her to say something dismissive like "...and I play Candy Crush on it" but no, ...and it's a secure line for having confidential conversations.
freecellwizard:
The few times I've listened to Radio Sputnik (in English) over the internet or whatever it's called now, it has sounded like an American right-wing talk radio show, whereas all of the other English language state broadcasters I listen to from around the world seem to be modeled on the BBC.
posted by XMLicious at 10:20 AM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Speaking of propaganda, NPR aired an interview with RT Editor-in-Chief Margarita Simonyan this morning.
The interviewer says to her in what seemed like a joking tone at first I hear that you have a special phone for talking to Kremlin officials! and she started to respond, Yes, I have a phone in my office...
The way the interview had gone so far I expected her to say something dismissive like "...and I play Candy Crush on it" but no, ...and it's a secure line for having confidential conversations.
freecellwizard:
I also heard the NPR interview with the RT editor-in-chief but my take was that for the first half she came off as a Russian version of the alt-right news people.
The few times I've listened to Radio Sputnik (in English) over the internet or whatever it's called now, it has sounded like an American right-wing talk radio show, whereas all of the other English language state broadcasters I listen to from around the world seem to be modeled on the BBC.
posted by XMLicious at 10:20 AM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Comey’s testimony changed everything — and not in Trump’s favor
Looking back years from now on Thursday’s testimony from former FBI director James B. Comey, we will likely see that it marked a turning point in President Trump’s drama. There was Before Comey and After Comey.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:24 AM on June 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
Before Comey, impeachment talk was not a real concern for Republicans. While they may still insist there is nothing to see here, Comey testimony’s turned impeachment into a serious topic of discussion. When you are debating whether an appalling course of conduct is illegal or “merely” impeachable, or whether it is as bad as the facts that led to Richard Nixon’s removal, the incumbent party is in deep trouble.
The Office of Special Counsel has concluded that Dan Scavino violated the Hatch Act when he called for a primary challenge of Rep. Amash on Twitter. He was issued a warning letter.
posted by zachlipton at 10:35 AM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:35 AM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
Ooooh, a warning letter! That's very serious. Good job on that penalty! Maybe next time they could threaten to add this to his Permanent Record.
posted by medusa at 10:40 AM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by medusa at 10:40 AM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
"This nation sits at a crossroads. One direction points to the higher road of the rule of law. Sometimes hard, sometimes unpleasant, this path relies on truth, justice and the rigorous application of the principle that no man is above the law. Now, the other road is the path of least resistance. This is where we start making exceptions to our laws based on poll numbers and spin control. This is when we pitch the law completely overboard when the mood fits us, when we ignore the facts in order to cover up the truth.
No man is above the law, and no man is below the law. That's the principle that we all hold very dear in this country."
American Hero and Patriot,
Tom Fucking DeLay
posted by petebest at 10:44 AM on June 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
No man is above the law, and no man is below the law. That's the principle that we all hold very dear in this country."
American Hero and Patriot,
Tom Fucking DeLay
posted by petebest at 10:44 AM on June 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
The problem, from my POV, is that we're still looking at Republicans steadfastly refusing to impeach a criminal President. I don't think any testimony, or even the most ironclad of investigations proving beyond any reasonable doubt that Trump et al committed crimes up to and including treason, will result in the House Republicans even permitting an impeachment motion to come to the floor, much less to allow it to pass. And certainly the Senate Republicans won't remove Trump from office.
Removal by legal means is simply off the table. Republicans value Party over country too much to ever vote to oust a Republican President.
This doesn't necessarily mean Trump will serve the remainder of his term, it's possible (though I think unlikely) that he'll resign due to the pressure. We should keep the pressure up, make his life as miserable as possible, in hopes that he will resign whether it's likely or not of course.
But I think the real benefit from Comey, and any future testimony of any other people, and the eventual results of the investigation(s) will be in the 2018 and 2020 elections.
There **SHOULD** be a legal remedy to the problem of Trump. But there isn't.
That leaves a political remedy.
We have, therefore, two main jobs:
1) From now until the 2018 elections, doing absolutely everything we can to impede the Republican agenda. If the Democrats are still permitting unanimous consent to allow vital Senate business to proceed then they are making a grave mistake.
We have around 18 months of Republican majorities in Congress and a Republican President, they can do enormous damage in that time and we absolutely must do our level best to keep that damage to a minimum.
The various Indivisible groups are also a valuable tool, pressuring individual Republicans not to vote on horrible Republican bills might eventually pay off.
2) We **MUST** win back at least one house of Congress in 2018, that alone will put an end to the worst of the Republican fuckery. Then "all" we have to do is keep the Democrats in whatever house of Congress we take strong for the the 24 long months to 2020 and we can finally rid ourselves of Trump in the 2020 elections.
But we must not allow ourselves to think that there's a legal remedy here.
There should be. If there was ever a case for removing a President, either via the 25th Amendment or impeachment, Trump embodies it. If the Republican Party had even the faintest shred of honor, patriotism, or even sanity, it would stop protecting our senile Criminal in Chief.
But the Republicans are utterly and completely without honor, patriotism, or loyalty to anything but their Party so a legal solution is out of the picture. Imagining that one will happen is only going to set us up for disappointment when Trump (as he inevitably will) weathers the storm and stays in office, and worse it might sap our will to fight because we hope we won't need to fight so long.
The problem, thanks entirely to Republican ratfuckery, is not a legal problem but a political problem. And we can only solve political problems through political means.
We must win in 2018 and, this is very important, in 2017.
Democrats have a very bad habit of sitting out midterms, and an even worse habit of completely abandoning state and local elections. That has to end.
We're only in a position where Trump is President [1] because of the unconscionable, negligent, and mindbogglingly stupid decision of the Democrats nationwide to simply abandon local and state races.
We must retake local and state offices wherever possible and at all costs.
Allowing ourselves to indulge in the pleasant fantasy that somehow legal mechanisms will save us from Trump is dangerous and may push us towards loss in vital elections. Trump is never, ever, going to be forcibly removed from office, accept that, internalize that, make it part of your reality, and use that horrible, criminal, evil, fact to fuel your rage, your hate, and your activism. Indulging in fantasies of him being impeached will merely sap your will to fight.
[1] And, somewhat like after my father died, I find that I go for days, or even weeks, with that seeming somewhat unreal and then it hits me again that the orange turd really is President and it's like 11/9 all over again and I get a panic attack and episode of deep, dark, depression and rage.
posted by sotonohito at 10:44 AM on June 9, 2017 [73 favorites]
Removal by legal means is simply off the table. Republicans value Party over country too much to ever vote to oust a Republican President.
This doesn't necessarily mean Trump will serve the remainder of his term, it's possible (though I think unlikely) that he'll resign due to the pressure. We should keep the pressure up, make his life as miserable as possible, in hopes that he will resign whether it's likely or not of course.
But I think the real benefit from Comey, and any future testimony of any other people, and the eventual results of the investigation(s) will be in the 2018 and 2020 elections.
There **SHOULD** be a legal remedy to the problem of Trump. But there isn't.
That leaves a political remedy.
We have, therefore, two main jobs:
1) From now until the 2018 elections, doing absolutely everything we can to impede the Republican agenda. If the Democrats are still permitting unanimous consent to allow vital Senate business to proceed then they are making a grave mistake.
We have around 18 months of Republican majorities in Congress and a Republican President, they can do enormous damage in that time and we absolutely must do our level best to keep that damage to a minimum.
The various Indivisible groups are also a valuable tool, pressuring individual Republicans not to vote on horrible Republican bills might eventually pay off.
2) We **MUST** win back at least one house of Congress in 2018, that alone will put an end to the worst of the Republican fuckery. Then "all" we have to do is keep the Democrats in whatever house of Congress we take strong for the the 24 long months to 2020 and we can finally rid ourselves of Trump in the 2020 elections.
But we must not allow ourselves to think that there's a legal remedy here.
There should be. If there was ever a case for removing a President, either via the 25th Amendment or impeachment, Trump embodies it. If the Republican Party had even the faintest shred of honor, patriotism, or even sanity, it would stop protecting our senile Criminal in Chief.
But the Republicans are utterly and completely without honor, patriotism, or loyalty to anything but their Party so a legal solution is out of the picture. Imagining that one will happen is only going to set us up for disappointment when Trump (as he inevitably will) weathers the storm and stays in office, and worse it might sap our will to fight because we hope we won't need to fight so long.
The problem, thanks entirely to Republican ratfuckery, is not a legal problem but a political problem. And we can only solve political problems through political means.
We must win in 2018 and, this is very important, in 2017.
Democrats have a very bad habit of sitting out midterms, and an even worse habit of completely abandoning state and local elections. That has to end.
We're only in a position where Trump is President [1] because of the unconscionable, negligent, and mindbogglingly stupid decision of the Democrats nationwide to simply abandon local and state races.
We must retake local and state offices wherever possible and at all costs.
Allowing ourselves to indulge in the pleasant fantasy that somehow legal mechanisms will save us from Trump is dangerous and may push us towards loss in vital elections. Trump is never, ever, going to be forcibly removed from office, accept that, internalize that, make it part of your reality, and use that horrible, criminal, evil, fact to fuel your rage, your hate, and your activism. Indulging in fantasies of him being impeached will merely sap your will to fight.
[1] And, somewhat like after my father died, I find that I go for days, or even weeks, with that seeming somewhat unreal and then it hits me again that the orange turd really is President and it's like 11/9 all over again and I get a panic attack and episode of deep, dark, depression and rage.
posted by sotonohito at 10:44 AM on June 9, 2017 [73 favorites]
Constitutional-Rape-Apologist, Marco Rubio (R-TX): "But it was such a light touch."
posted by erisfree at 10:46 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by erisfree at 10:46 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ooooh, a warning letter! That's very serious. Good job on that penalty! Maybe next time they could threaten to add this to his Permanent Record.
They'll just make him eat his words by writing it on a delicious cake.
posted by Talez at 10:47 AM on June 9, 2017
They'll just make him eat his words by writing it on a delicious cake.
posted by Talez at 10:47 AM on June 9, 2017
>Trump can have "fake news."
He already does -
At least he gave us the term "alternative facts" to use instead.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:58 AM on June 9, 2017
He already does -
At least he gave us the term "alternative facts" to use instead.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:58 AM on June 9, 2017
He can file all the complaints he wants. DOJ IG only has jurisdiction over current employees; the worst they could do is fire him again.
It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster
posted by Melismata at 11:00 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster
posted by Melismata at 11:00 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Reuters: Exclusive: Trump targets illegal immigrants who were given reprieves from deportation by Obama
It represents one of the first concrete examples of the crackdown promised by Trump and is likely to stir fears among tens of thousands of illegal immigrants who thought they were safe from deportation.posted by zachlipton at 11:10 AM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
While cases were reopened during the Obama administration as well, it was generally only if an immigrant had committed a serious crime, immigration attorneys say. The Trump administration has sharply increased the number of cases it is asking the courts to reopen, and its targets appear to include at least some people who have not committed any crimes since their cases were closed.
...
Attorneys interviewed by Reuters say indeed some of the cases being reopened are because immigrants were arrested for serious crimes, but they are also seeing cases involving people who haven't committed crimes or who were cited for minor violations, like traffic tickets.
I have no pie-in-the-sky hopes about impeachment or Republicans turning against Trump. Like at all.
I have said ad nauseum that the Republicans will not make any moves against Trump until or unless he impedes their agenda. And I still believe that.
However - one way of looking at it I hadn't thought of before was that moving against Trump right now would impede their agenda. If they were pressuring him behind the scenes to resign, even if there was a whiff of it, he would veto any and every bill they delivered to him, including an ACA repeal and probably hold out against resigning until the bitter bloody end.
In conclusion, the Republicans probably won't do anything, still, but if they were going to pressure Trump to resign or begin impeachment hearings, I could imagine it happening after ACA repeal is passed.
posted by Tevin at 11:13 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have said ad nauseum that the Republicans will not make any moves against Trump until or unless he impedes their agenda. And I still believe that.
However - one way of looking at it I hadn't thought of before was that moving against Trump right now would impede their agenda. If they were pressuring him behind the scenes to resign, even if there was a whiff of it, he would veto any and every bill they delivered to him, including an ACA repeal and probably hold out against resigning until the bitter bloody end.
In conclusion, the Republicans probably won't do anything, still, but if they were going to pressure Trump to resign or begin impeachment hearings, I could imagine it happening after ACA repeal is passed.
posted by Tevin at 11:13 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Tom Fucking DeLay
This fucking timeline, I swear to god
posted by schadenfrau at 11:14 AM on June 9, 2017 [33 favorites]
This fucking timeline, I swear to god
posted by schadenfrau at 11:14 AM on June 9, 2017 [33 favorites]
Also, the Republican Party should be known as the party of treason. That's it. It's that simple.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:15 AM on June 9, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 11:15 AM on June 9, 2017 [48 favorites]
Just for clarity, that's Tom DeLay in 1998, calling for an impeachment inquiry of Bill Clinton. Tom DeLay now literally says that Trump is god's gift to America.
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on June 9, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on June 9, 2017 [36 favorites]
Tom Fucking DeLay
This fucking timeline, I swear to god
checking the middle name is how you know which one you're in. he's just Tom Dale Delay in the other one.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:20 AM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
There is a brief window of possible Republican action in about 12-15 months, sometime between the primaries and the general election. Trump has a deathgrip on the Republican Party's most loyal primary voters, so Congressional Republicans live in fear of him. But as soon as they get past those primary elections and need to win the general election they might, might, turn on him.
might. as in I don't think they will. but the odds go from less than 0% now to some other number.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:21 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
might. as in I don't think they will. but the odds go from less than 0% now to some other number.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:21 AM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also, the Republican Party should be known as the party of treason. That's it. It's that simple.
[Real] exchange I had with a stranger on Facebook today. (His profile picture was a cartoon superhero type in a suit, posed in front of the American flag, by the way.)
Him: Vladimir Putin and the Russian government don't hate normal Americans nearly as much as the American Establishment and International Capital hate normal Americans.
Me: And you don't hate Putin as much as you hate the American government?
Him: Vladimir Putin doesn't want to lock up Christian bakers who refuse to bake gay wedding cakes.
Me: So the answer is you do hate the American government more than the Russian government? That makes your profile pic pretty ironic.
Him: What did the Russian government ever do to you: give up on communism? Was the czar mean to your great-grandparents?
Me: But you are right that Putin has no love for gay people.
----
I think "party of treason" is pretty accurate...
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:22 AM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
[Real] exchange I had with a stranger on Facebook today. (His profile picture was a cartoon superhero type in a suit, posed in front of the American flag, by the way.)
Him: Vladimir Putin and the Russian government don't hate normal Americans nearly as much as the American Establishment and International Capital hate normal Americans.
Me: And you don't hate Putin as much as you hate the American government?
Him: Vladimir Putin doesn't want to lock up Christian bakers who refuse to bake gay wedding cakes.
Me: So the answer is you do hate the American government more than the Russian government? That makes your profile pic pretty ironic.
Him: What did the Russian government ever do to you: give up on communism? Was the czar mean to your great-grandparents?
Me: But you are right that Putin has no love for gay people.
----
I think "party of treason" is pretty accurate...
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:22 AM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
However, Bob Inglis, who was a GOP Congressman who was a loud voice in favor of impeaching Clinton, to the extent he had some of the most, er, salacious portions of the Starr Report read into the Congressional Record, had this to say today:
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on June 9, 2017 [80 favorites]
.@SpeakerRyan you know this isn't true. You know that you would be inquiring into impeachment if this were a D.That's in response to Speaker Ryan's claim that they wouldn't be calling for impeachment of a Democrat who did what Trump did.
.@SpeakerRyan, no, it isn't time to draft Articles of Impeachment. But it is time to pursue the Russia investigation with vigor.
.@SpeakerRyan and if the investigation leads to the Pres., his family or his campaign, so be it. Don't obstruct justice. Put country first
Yes, I was on Judiciary Cmte that impeached Clinton/sent him for trial in the Senate for matters less serious than the ones before us now
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on June 9, 2017 [80 favorites]
People like DeLay and Newt Gringrich love Trump because he's the man they all wish they were; rich, sexist, venal, racist, corrupt, and (most importantly) seemingly immune to negative legal and political consequences for his actions. "Why couldn't it have been meeeee???", they ask at night.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:29 AM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:29 AM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
From the look-how-far-we've-come Dept: Fox News Was Attacking Barack Obama for Using Dijon Mustard at This Point in His Presidency.
posted by bonehead at 11:32 AM on June 9, 2017 [61 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 11:32 AM on June 9, 2017 [61 favorites]
Correction: on oser examination his profile picture is actually LEX LUTHOR standing in front of an American flag. So... not ironic? Still ironic but in a different way? Poe's law? I have no idea.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:34 AM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:34 AM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Upcoming joint press conference with Orange Ceaucescu and the president of Romania. ETA 5 min.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:40 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:40 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
From the look-how-far-we've-come Dept: Fox News Was Attacking Barack Obama for Using Dijon Mustard at This Point in His Presidency.
You'll be glad to know that both the visit itself and the conservative freakout brought even more business to Ray's Hellburger, which still keeps the Gulden's and Grey Poupon well-stocked.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:40 AM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
You'll be glad to know that both the visit itself and the conservative freakout brought even more business to Ray's Hellburger, which still keeps the Gulden's and Grey Poupon well-stocked.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:40 AM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Oh, and their burgers are medium-rare by default, they don't ruin their beef for the tastebuds of whiny three year-olds unless you specifically ask.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:43 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:43 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
I thought you had to cook ground beef medium, by default, after the last big E. Coli outbreak
posted by thelonius at 11:44 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 11:44 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Was the czar mean to your great-grandparents?
Uh... yes?
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:45 AM on June 9, 2017 [61 favorites]
Uh... yes?
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:45 AM on June 9, 2017 [61 favorites]
I just wish they'd stop changing literally everything else on their menu without warning.
(Give me back my onion fries, dammit)
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:46 AM on June 9, 2017
(Give me back my onion fries, dammit)
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:46 AM on June 9, 2017
Well, now i'm hungry
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:48 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:48 AM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Did Trump just acknowledge (in a tweet, of course) that he told Comey to back off Michael Flynn? (Amber Phillips, WaPo)
also, this means that he's back to tweeting again so, cool
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:50 AM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
also, this means that he's back to tweeting again so, cool
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:50 AM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
A couple of post-Comey headlines from Capitol Hill:
• Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.) said on Friday he expects Robert Mueller to depose President Trump as part of his investigation into alleged ties between the Trump campaign and Russian election meddling. “I would expect at some point, not right away, but at some point, that Mr. Mueller would feel he has to depose the president,” Reed told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer.
• Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) is calling for President Trump to testify before congressional investigators about his interactions with fired FBI Director James Comey, after the former top cop testified before a Senate panel about his conversations with the president. "What’s most important is that investigators in the Senate and at the Department of Justice get all the facts and find the truth," Murphy said in a statement. "If the White House’s account differs from what we heard today, the American people deserve to hear the president’s side of the story in a similar forum — under oath and open to the press," he added.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:50 AM on June 9, 2017 [36 favorites]
• Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.) said on Friday he expects Robert Mueller to depose President Trump as part of his investigation into alleged ties between the Trump campaign and Russian election meddling. “I would expect at some point, not right away, but at some point, that Mr. Mueller would feel he has to depose the president,” Reed told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer.
• Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) is calling for President Trump to testify before congressional investigators about his interactions with fired FBI Director James Comey, after the former top cop testified before a Senate panel about his conversations with the president. "What’s most important is that investigators in the Senate and at the Department of Justice get all the facts and find the truth," Murphy said in a statement. "If the White House’s account differs from what we heard today, the American people deserve to hear the president’s side of the story in a similar forum — under oath and open to the press," he added.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:50 AM on June 9, 2017 [36 favorites]
Was the czar mean to your great-grandparents?
Uh... yes?
Yeah, me too. My ancestors were run out of Russia by antisemitic pogroms commanded by people just like oh look who's in the White House right now.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:51 AM on June 9, 2017 [54 favorites]
Uh... yes?
Yeah, me too. My ancestors were run out of Russia by antisemitic pogroms commanded by people just like oh look who's in the White House right now.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:51 AM on June 9, 2017 [54 favorites]
"What do you have against Russia? You some kind of Jew or something?"
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [59 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [59 favorites]
What is the procedure for the Senate Intelligence Committee asking someone to testify? Do all the members need to approve? Just the chair and vice-chair? Any member? Is there any chance the Ds can actually make Trump testify on this matter without the Rs stonewalling?
posted by lydhre at 11:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 11:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.) said on Friday he expects Robert Mueller to depose President Trump
I have a disappointing suspicion he means definition #3, but a man can hope
posted by saturday_morning at 11:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
I have a disappointing suspicion he means definition #3, but a man can hope
posted by saturday_morning at 11:53 AM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Him: What did the Russian government ever do to you: give up on communism? Was the czar mean to your great-grandparents?
Tell him to look up the pogroms.
posted by zarq at 11:54 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Tell him to look up the pogroms.
posted by zarq at 11:54 AM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Allowing ourselves to indulge in the pleasant fantasy that somehow legal mechanisms will save us from Trump is dangerous and may push us towards loss in vital elections.
This does NOT, however, mean that we should actually stop pursuing Trump's impeachment. Comey's testimony should, were the GOP not traitorous, prompt Congress to start drafting articles of impeachment. They aren't making noises like that's going to happen so we can check that milestone off the list. I think the conclusion of Mueller's investigation will be the next milestone. I fully expect that, regardless of the actual conclusions made and evidence produced, that will again fail to spur any action.
The 2018 elections are the next milestone that I'm aware of that should give us an opportunity to put a stop to all this. I expect more voter disenfranchisement and other shady stuff that neither the GOP nor anyone else will suffer for (nor will any corrective action be taken) and they'll steal that election too. Then it's on to 2020 where I think we'll be lucky to have anything resembling a fair election and those in the know will probably understand that they were rigged by the GOP (IE: Russian style elections).
If we make it that far we'll be out of all legal and political recourse. On the less bad side, we'll have thoroughly exhausted every morally acceptable means of removing him. At that point it's just a matter of deciding if a full-on revolution is worse than letting the US slide all the way into Fascism.
Pursue impeachment like there will be a civil war if we fail, because there likely will be.
posted by VTX at 11:54 AM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
This does NOT, however, mean that we should actually stop pursuing Trump's impeachment. Comey's testimony should, were the GOP not traitorous, prompt Congress to start drafting articles of impeachment. They aren't making noises like that's going to happen so we can check that milestone off the list. I think the conclusion of Mueller's investigation will be the next milestone. I fully expect that, regardless of the actual conclusions made and evidence produced, that will again fail to spur any action.
The 2018 elections are the next milestone that I'm aware of that should give us an opportunity to put a stop to all this. I expect more voter disenfranchisement and other shady stuff that neither the GOP nor anyone else will suffer for (nor will any corrective action be taken) and they'll steal that election too. Then it's on to 2020 where I think we'll be lucky to have anything resembling a fair election and those in the know will probably understand that they were rigged by the GOP (IE: Russian style elections).
If we make it that far we'll be out of all legal and political recourse. On the less bad side, we'll have thoroughly exhausted every morally acceptable means of removing him. At that point it's just a matter of deciding if a full-on revolution is worse than letting the US slide all the way into Fascism.
Pursue impeachment like there will be a civil war if we fail, because there likely will be.
posted by VTX at 11:54 AM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
Trump is speaking in the Rose Garden now. He's on an extended bit about Qatar and funding for terrorism. He keeps pronouncing it like "guitar." I feel like he's reversing policy on the fly? He's thanking the King of Saudi Arabia.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:55 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:55 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
So Trump is now bashing Qatar for funding terrorism and saying he made a decision along with Tillerson to take action against them. He's praising Saudi Arabia and "my friend" the king. Tillerson called on the Gulf states to ease their blockade like an hour ago.
Remember the days when we used to have more-or-less one foreign policy at a time?
It's also unclear to me why he's using the occasion of the visit of the President of Romania to yell about funding terrorism.
posted by zachlipton at 11:57 AM on June 9, 2017 [45 favorites]
Remember the days when we used to have more-or-less one foreign policy at a time?
It's also unclear to me why he's using the occasion of the visit of the President of Romania to yell about funding terrorism.
posted by zachlipton at 11:57 AM on June 9, 2017 [45 favorites]
Trump livestream with the President of Romania
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:57 AM on June 9, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:57 AM on June 9, 2017
It's also unclear to me why he's using the occasion of the visit of the President of Romania to yell about funding terrorism.
Now he's saying they're upping their NATO contribution to 2% of GDP. "Because of our actions, the money is starting to pour in. Other countries are starting to realize it's time to pay up." It sounds like a straight up protection racket speech.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 11:59 AM on June 9, 2017 [35 favorites]
Now he's saying they're upping their NATO contribution to 2% of GDP. "Because of our actions, the money is starting to pour in. Other countries are starting to realize it's time to pay up." It sounds like a straight up protection racket speech.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 11:59 AM on June 9, 2017 [35 favorites]
trump apparently forgets that we have 10000 troops and our main ME base of operations in qatar
posted by localhuman at 12:00 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 12:00 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Sorry, hit post too soon -- he thanked them for the troops they sent to Afghanistan, and for all that sweet sweet NATO cash that will go to protecting the world from terrorists.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:01 PM on June 9, 2017
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:01 PM on June 9, 2017
Incoherent pro-American pro-Putin people commenting on media Facebook posts may not be quite as American as they seem, or quite as unpaid...
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:01 PM on June 9, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:01 PM on June 9, 2017 [42 favorites]
trump apparently forgets that we have 10000 troops and our main ME base of operations in qatar
It's only forgetting if we assume he knew about it in the first place. Forgive him, cries the GOP, for he is too stupid to know.
posted by lydhre at 12:02 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
It's only forgetting if we assume he knew about it in the first place. Forgive him, cries the GOP, for he is too stupid to know.
posted by lydhre at 12:02 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
However - one way of looking at it I hadn't thought of before was that moving against Trump right now would impede their agenda. If they were pressuring him behind the scenes to resign, even if there was a whiff of it, he would veto any and every bill they delivered to him, including an ACA repeal and probably hold out against resigning until the bitter bloody end.
Ok, sooo...The logical conclusion is that he needs to be led to believe they *are* plotting against him. I hope to god someone with actual political pull, not this silly dickhead (me) on a community blog, has come to this same conclusion and will act upon it.
posted by notsnot at 12:03 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ok, sooo...The logical conclusion is that he needs to be led to believe they *are* plotting against him. I hope to god someone with actual political pull, not this silly dickhead (me) on a community blog, has come to this same conclusion and will act upon it.
posted by notsnot at 12:03 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
GOP: "Look, this is Donald Trump, you can't expect him to know things. That's not why we voted for him".
[fake]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:05 PM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
[fake]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:05 PM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Fish, fish, are you doing your duty?: ""Because of our actions, the money is starting to pour in. Other countries are starting to realize it's time to pay up.""
Has anyone asked Trump straight-out: "Do you think that NATO countries pay dues to the United States?" I mean, people need to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt and start quizzing him on basic matters of fact.
posted by mhum at 12:07 PM on June 9, 2017 [43 favorites]
Has anyone asked Trump straight-out: "Do you think that NATO countries pay dues to the United States?" I mean, people need to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt and start quizzing him on basic matters of fact.
posted by mhum at 12:07 PM on June 9, 2017 [43 favorites]
Donald Trump: "No collusion. No obstruction. He's a leaker."
[real]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:07 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
[real]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:07 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
"No collusion, no obstruction. He's a leaker. We want to get back to running our great country." Rambles about North Korea.
posted by mochapickle at 12:08 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mochapickle at 12:08 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Asked whether there are tapes, Trump says "I may tell you about that very soon".
So, no tapes.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:08 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
So, no tapes.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:08 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Donald Trump: "No collusion. No obstruction. He's a leaker."This is one of 45's favorite constructions. Denial, denial, YOU DO THE THING! "No puppet, no puppet, YOU'RE THE PUPPET!"
posted by xyzzy at 12:10 PM on June 9, 2017 [26 favorites]
I mean, people need to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt and start quizzing him on basic matters of fact.
I'd love if someone would just ask something like "What is your reaction to the Doha situation?" without any follow-up details. Something that might be cryptic to the average American but should be readily comprehensible to anyone in the White House who is not the guy who used to host The Apprentice.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:11 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
I'd love if someone would just ask something like "What is your reaction to the Doha situation?" without any follow-up details. Something that might be cryptic to the average American but should be readily comprehensible to anyone in the White House who is not the guy who used to host The Apprentice.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:11 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
So Trump is directly accusing Comey of lying under oath, while saying his testimony vindicated him? You really don't get to use the "he's a liar" explanation when you're also claiming you're happy about what he said.
Now he's saying he wants the NATO countries to pay for defense spending for all previous years where they were below the 2% target too. That's simply not happening.
"I'm committing the United States to Article V." Woah. Bannon must be pissed.
posted by zachlipton at 12:12 PM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
Now he's saying he wants the NATO countries to pay for defense spending for all previous years where they were below the 2% target too. That's simply not happening.
"I'm committing the United States to Article V." Woah. Bannon must be pissed.
posted by zachlipton at 12:12 PM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
*Question about Visa Waiver Program*
Trump: We didn't talk about it.
Iohannis: I brought it up.
[real]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:13 PM on June 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
Trump: We didn't talk about it.
Iohannis: I brought it up.
[real]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:13 PM on June 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
He keeps pronouncing it like "guitar."
I'd love it if someone would just ask something like "What is your reaction to the Doha situation?" without any follow-up details.
Just ask him about Qatar, but pronounce it correctly.
posted by Groundhog Week at 12:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'd love it if someone would just ask something like "What is your reaction to the Doha situation?" without any follow-up details.
Just ask him about Qatar, but pronounce it correctly.
posted by Groundhog Week at 12:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Will you testify under oath?
Trump: "100%"
[real]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [40 favorites]
Trump: "100%"
[real]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [40 favorites]
Trump selecting a questioner:"Should I take one of the killer networks that treat me so unfairly as fake news? Huh? Eh? Should I?" ... "Remember how nice you used to be before I got elected, you remember that?"
Not a well man.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
Not a well man.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
Trump now saying that he didn't ask Comey "to pledge allegiance under oath" because "who would do that?"
Not a well man.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Not a well man.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Some confusion re: the questions. 45 peers out over the crowd and wonders aloud whether he should ask one of the "fake news" outlets out front. There's a deep voice with an accent(?): "...But I have the microphone." 45 selects one of the "fake news" journalists and interrupts him throughout.
posted by mochapickle at 12:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 12:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trumps says 100% that he'd testify under oath to his version of events. He says he never asked for loyalty and he "hardly knew the man" so who would ask for that?
He'll tell us about whether there are recordings "over a very short period of time." What an asshole dangling this stupid tapes thing over everyone's head.
I'd love if someone would just ask something like "What is your reaction to the Doha situation?" without any follow-up details.
That's too easy to BS your way out of. I want basic factual questions like "What does NATO stand for?"
posted by zachlipton at 12:16 PM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
He'll tell us about whether there are recordings "over a very short period of time." What an asshole dangling this stupid tapes thing over everyone's head.
I'd love if someone would just ask something like "What is your reaction to the Doha situation?" without any follow-up details.
That's too easy to BS your way out of. I want basic factual questions like "What does NATO stand for?"
posted by zachlipton at 12:16 PM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
Q: Are there tapes of these conversations with Comey?
Trump: I'll have something to say about that in a very short period of time.
Q: I'm sorry, when is that exactly?
Trump: A very short period of time.
[real but paraphrased from memory]
posted by gatorae at 12:17 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump: I'll have something to say about that in a very short period of time.
Q: I'm sorry, when is that exactly?
Trump: A very short period of time.
[real but paraphrased from memory]
posted by gatorae at 12:17 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
But we must not allow ourselves to think that there's a legal remedy here.
I respectfully disagree. I believe the DNC should bring a lawsuit now against the GOP for colluding with Russia to interfere with the election. The petition would be to overturn the results of the election and either hold new elections or install the popular vote winners who did not commit fraud.
And, yes, the courts have invalidate and overturned elections before (e.g.).
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:18 PM on June 9, 2017 [28 favorites]
I respectfully disagree. I believe the DNC should bring a lawsuit now against the GOP for colluding with Russia to interfere with the election. The petition would be to overturn the results of the election and either hold new elections or install the popular vote winners who did not commit fraud.
And, yes, the courts have invalidate and overturned elections before (e.g.).
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:18 PM on June 9, 2017 [28 favorites]
Iohannis keeps talking about strength and complimenting 45. Dude has been briefed. Wish I'd tuned in early enough to catch the handshake.
45 was just asked about anticorruption initiatives in Romania. From Iohannis' Wikipedia page:
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:18 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
45 was just asked about anticorruption initiatives in Romania. From Iohannis' Wikipedia page:
President Klaus Johannis is a supporter of the fight against corruption in Romania. Since coming to power in November 2014, has sent several messages of support to prosecutors investigating sensitive cases against politicians accused of corruption. Making one of its important position was in February 25, 2016 at the annual meeting of the National Anticorruption Directorate: “From year to year the work of the National Anticorruption Directorate has become more effective as the number of cases investigated and complexity, as well as final decisions on confiscation and recovery of property from crime. You are a model of functional institution and created a performance standard. Through the work and achievements, you've earned the appreciation of the Romanian citizens who want to live in a just society, in a country without corruption, the institutions, elect to represent them and those who perform public functions are actually serving the people. The results obtained by you in fighting corruption, appreciated and beyond Romania's borders are a guarantee that the process of strengthening democracy and the rule of law in Romania are on track. I am convinced that we will be increasingly more powerful in applying the constitutional principle that nobody is above the law and to align our established practice in countries with democracies that put the citizen at the center of any policy”, stated Klaus Iohannis.[68]I would love to know what is going through Iohannis' head right now.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:18 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
people need to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt and start quizzing him on basic matters of fact.
Fact hasn't been "on the table" for Trump in over two years. It's not about tipping Trump into some version of cognizance, it's about getting everyone to understand WE ALL KNOW the emperor has no clothes and go on about fixing the place. Ignore him or better, but he's not going to do or say anything to help anyone but himself, even if that means burying himself under miles of bullshit. Because Trump.
posted by petebest at 12:18 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fact hasn't been "on the table" for Trump in over two years. It's not about tipping Trump into some version of cognizance, it's about getting everyone to understand WE ALL KNOW the emperor has no clothes and go on about fixing the place. Ignore him or better, but he's not going to do or say anything to help anyone but himself, even if that means burying himself under miles of bullshit. Because Trump.
posted by petebest at 12:18 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Option 3: go for broke and ask about the Bofa situation.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:18 PM on June 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:18 PM on June 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
That was embarrassing for, well, everyone
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:19 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:19 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Remember how nice you used to be before I got elected, you remember that?"
Yes, and still pissed at them for it.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:21 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yes, and still pissed at them for it.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:21 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Comey's testimony was that Trump HIMSELF was not under active counter-intelligence investigation, but that Trump HIMSELF had obstructed justice. Comey's testimony had nothing to say on the question of collusion between the campaign and Russia except that it was under investigation.
Gah.
posted by notyou at 12:22 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Gah.
posted by notyou at 12:22 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Q: Are there tapes of these conversations with Comey?
Trump: I'll have something to say about that in a very short period of time.
Q: I'm sorry, when is that exactly?
Trump: When we've finished editing them. [fake]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:22 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump: I'll have something to say about that in a very short period of time.
Q: I'm sorry, when is that exactly?
Trump: When we've finished editing them. [fake]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:22 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
"What does NATO stand for?"
"Not much!"
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Not much!"
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is all so infuriating and predictable. What's gonna happen when he does lie under oath (probably 2-4 months after now after delaying/obfuscating the whole situation) and then evidence exists to corroborate that he DID fucking lie? Can anyone imagine Ryan/McConnell developing a spine?
It's true that the longer this goes on, the more wrongdoing and open lying they accept- rationally, it should be the opposite, but we're all the frogs in the boiling water and goddamn all of them. Fucking spineless, cowardless Republicans ruining everything. Gah.
posted by andruwjones26 at 12:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
It's true that the longer this goes on, the more wrongdoing and open lying they accept- rationally, it should be the opposite, but we're all the frogs in the boiling water and goddamn all of them. Fucking spineless, cowardless Republicans ruining everything. Gah.
posted by andruwjones26 at 12:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
Will you testify under oath?
Trump: "100%"
This would be super-exciting if anything he said had any value whatsoever
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
Trump: "100%"
This would be super-exciting if anything he said had any value whatsoever
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
I hope non-fake news asks Trump if he's committed to supporting the Berlin Luzersezwaught accord.
posted by klarck at 12:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by klarck at 12:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
I believe the DNC should bring a lawsuit now against the GOP for colluding with Russia to interfere with the election. The petition would be to overturn the results of the election and either hold new elections or install the popular vote winners who did not commit fraud.
Hells yeah. And none of this 19-months bullshit - 1 month, GO!
posted by petebest at 12:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Hells yeah. And none of this 19-months bullshit - 1 month, GO!
posted by petebest at 12:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
There is no way the President is going to testify to Congress under oath because of separation of powers. My understanding is also that there is no way the President is going to testify to the Special Counsel under oath because of Executive Privilege.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:25 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:25 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, it's Trump, so. "Oath". Heh.
posted by petebest at 12:26 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by petebest at 12:26 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Q: Are there tapes of these conversations with Comey?
Trump: I'll have something to say about that in a very short period of time.
Q: I'm sorry, when is that exactly?
Trump: As soon as they no longer exist.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:26 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump: I'll have something to say about that in a very short period of time.
Q: I'm sorry, when is that exactly?
Trump: As soon as they no longer exist.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:26 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
I can't stop feeling that this is the trap. Trump being coaxed into denying everything under oath, and Comey having some proof in his back pocket he didn't yet show us...
posted by Namlit at 12:27 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Namlit at 12:27 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Everyone's going to be shouting about testimony and tapes and accusing Comey of lying, but I think the more significant thing in that press conference was Trump praising his "friend" King Salman and talking tough on Qatar for financing terrorism (yes, he's praising the Saudis as he talks tough on terror financing) as Tillerson tries to cool tensions and work out some kind of grown-up resolution. We don't have a foreign policy, just different people whispering different stuff in Trump's ear, and those people seem to be the Saudi and UAE leaders right now.
Anyway, folks on Twitter are pointing out that Trump also promised to release his tax returns and prove Obama's birth certificate was fake, so maybe don't hold your breath on that whole testifying under oath promise.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [42 favorites]
Anyway, folks on Twitter are pointing out that Trump also promised to release his tax returns and prove Obama's birth certificate was fake, so maybe don't hold your breath on that whole testifying under oath promise.
posted by zachlipton at 12:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [42 favorites]
So Macron wasn't just posturing with that speech about welcoming researchers. I may have missed someone else reporting on this, but France has launched makeourplanetgreatagain.fr (Via this Twitter link). Click through the questionnaire available here to get a results page like this one, outlining what France can offer YOU, namely up to 1.5 million Euros in research grants over a 4 year period.
posted by maudlin at 12:29 PM on June 9, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 12:29 PM on June 9, 2017 [52 favorites]
If you need further proof that public pressure on dipshit Senators about AHCA has let up, I called Pat Toomey's Philadelphia office just now and reached a live staffer on the VERY FIRST TRY TODAY.
Seriously, people, we can walk Trump to treason, AND scream our faces off about his continuing efforts to kill millions of Americans at the same time.
If you need fuel for your screaming, look at this absolute bullshit:
or this
TO KILL MILLIONS OF AMERICANS
MAKE THIS ASSHOLE'S STAFF SEND EVERYTHING TO VOICEMAIL AGAIN
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:29 PM on June 9, 2017 [73 favorites]
Seriously, people, we can walk Trump to treason, AND scream our faces off about his continuing efforts to kill millions of Americans at the same time.
If you need fuel for your screaming, look at this absolute bullshit:
All across the country, citizens are worried about the rising cost of health care and the government's growing control over our health care decisions.
Instead of giving the government more power, Senator Toomey believes the best way to lower health care costs is to empower patients and increase transparency within the health care system. One way to do that is to create greater equity among purchasers of health insurance. We can start by giving individuals who buy their own health insurance the same tax benefits that employers enjoy when they buy health insurance for their employees. This will make health insurance more affordable for millions of Americans who buy their own coverage.
or this
"The House bill is merely the first legislative step, and I look forward to being a part of this process as the Senate writes its own version to repeal and replace Obamacare so that Pennsylvanians can have access to quality health care at a price they can afford," Toomey said in a statement.THIS ASSHOLE IS "LOOKING FORWARD TO BEING A PART OF THE PROCESS"
TO KILL MILLIONS OF AMERICANS
MAKE THIS ASSHOLE'S STAFF SEND EVERYTHING TO VOICEMAIL AGAIN
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:29 PM on June 9, 2017 [73 favorites]
Toomey office numbers, to save people the click:
Allentown: 1-855-552-1831
Erie: (814) 453-3010
Harrisburg: (717) 782-3951
Philly: (215) 241-1090
Pittsburg: (412) 803-3501
Johnstown: (814) 266-5970
Wilkes-Barre: (570) 820-4088
DC: (202) 224-4254
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:31 PM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
Allentown: 1-855-552-1831
Erie: (814) 453-3010
Harrisburg: (717) 782-3951
Philly: (215) 241-1090
Pittsburg: (412) 803-3501
Johnstown: (814) 266-5970
Wilkes-Barre: (570) 820-4088
DC: (202) 224-4254
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:31 PM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
Also, it's Trump, so. "Oath". Heh.
Are we done with th-fronting?
posted by Talez at 12:32 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Are we done with th-fronting?
posted by Talez at 12:32 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
New York Attorney General Looking Into Eric Trump Foundation (Dan Alexander and Matt Drange Forbes)
"Mr. President, should James Comey have been allowed to testify before Congress while his epidermis was showing?"
posted by Room 641-A at 12:34 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
The New York attorney general, which has been investigating the Donald J. Trump Foundation for months, is now looking into the Eric Trump Foundation, after a report in Forbes exposed practices that seem to violate state laws.I want basic factual questions like "What does NATO stand for?"
"Mr. President, should James Comey have been allowed to testify before Congress while his epidermis was showing?"
posted by Room 641-A at 12:34 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
He keeps pronouncing it like "guitar."
That's one thing I won't fault him for. Most newsies pronounce it "cutter" these days, but I heard a reporter from Qatar pronounce it "kuh-TAR." And NPR says there are a lot of ways Qataris pronounce it, which may be the root of the problem.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:37 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
That's one thing I won't fault him for. Most newsies pronounce it "cutter" these days, but I heard a reporter from Qatar pronounce it "kuh-TAR." And NPR says there are a lot of ways Qataris pronounce it, which may be the root of the problem.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:37 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Are we done with th-fronting?
Ok, done: 100% under Oaf.
posted by Namlit at 12:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ok, done: 100% under Oaf.
posted by Namlit at 12:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
National Treasure Charles P. Pierce in Esquire with some more highlights from the Pelosi interview
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
All of these "stump Trump" hypothetical questions would just bring out his army of trolls and apologists to complain that everyone was being mean, so very mean to a man who only wants to MAGA and/or assert that Trump's answer (even if it was to drop trou and take a dump) was, in fact, the correct one.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, it's not technically a swamp, but they are draining a body of water in Washington this weekend: "80+ ducks have died in Lincoln reflecting pool. Park Service blames parasitic snails. Will drain pool starting Sunday to fix. #NBC4DC"
This story feels like an appropriate end to what I think we can all agree has been a jam-packed Infrastructure Week.
(I say that in the spirit not of mocking infrastructure, but of pointing out that this charade has been an insult to everyone who actually cares about infrastructure and thinks it needs to be taken seriously, instead of used as a pathetic attempt at a distraction, and that it should involve people with a clue of what they are doing developing actual policy that will be carried out.)
posted by zachlipton at 12:43 PM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
This story feels like an appropriate end to what I think we can all agree has been a jam-packed Infrastructure Week.
(I say that in the spirit not of mocking infrastructure, but of pointing out that this charade has been an insult to everyone who actually cares about infrastructure and thinks it needs to be taken seriously, instead of used as a pathetic attempt at a distraction, and that it should involve people with a clue of what they are doing developing actual policy that will be carried out.)
posted by zachlipton at 12:43 PM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
Park Service blames parasitic snails
Eh, I don't think we should blame Senate Republicans for everything
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:46 PM on June 9, 2017 [76 favorites]
Eh, I don't think we should blame Senate Republicans for everything
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:46 PM on June 9, 2017 [76 favorites]
Eh, I don't think we should blame Senate Republicans for everything
At this point I would not be at all surprised to discover they did it to save money on duck ramps.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:49 PM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
At this point I would not be at all surprised to discover they did it to save money on duck ramps.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:49 PM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
James Hohmann, WaPo: The Daily 202: What would it take for the Republican base to stop trusting Donald Trump?
Sometimes it feels like the president’s M.O. is: I know what you are, but what am I? When someone attacks him for something, he quite often lobs the same charge right back at who he perceives to be the accuser. Recall how Trump started talking about Bill Clinton’s infidelity last October after he got caught on tape boasting about being able to get away with groping women because he’s a celebrity. Then he appropriated the term “fake news” after the election.posted by ZeusHumms at 12:52 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
...
Trump has long been adept at muddying the waters by employing the crisis management playbook that he learned from Joseph McCarthy’s protégé Roy Cohn. The difference this time: He can count on the official Republican Party apparatus to do his bidding.
The Republican National Committee deployed a whopping 60 staff members as part of its rapid-response “war room” effort to counter-punch at Comey, according to the Wall Street Journal.
“The RNC’s output was punchy, snarky and at times contradictory,” David Weigel reports. “It neatly captured the fog of confusion that the president’s defenders wanted to churn.”
Even Trump’s former political opponents, including Marco Rubio and John McCain, acted sort of like his political defense team, Paul Kane writes.
Wasn't there another account of Trump asking somebody for loyalty? It seems like there is, I just can't place it. There's too much shit in this shitpile.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:53 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:53 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
OK, I faxed Toomey. I'll fax Dent on Monday.
posted by Dashy at 12:59 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 12:59 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fox News Was Attacking Barack Obama for Using Dijon Mustard at This Point in His Presidency.
i'm almost speechless - for the last 8 years the american nation has been living a GREAT LIE and i didn't know it
it makes me proud that we now have a predisent that uses the right kind of mustard on his well-done steak
posted by pyramid termite at 1:00 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
i'm almost speechless - for the last 8 years the american nation has been living a GREAT LIE and i didn't know it
it makes me proud that we now have a predisent that uses the right kind of mustard on his well-done steak
posted by pyramid termite at 1:00 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just ask him about Qatar, but pronounce it correctly.
"Tremendous man. Great educator. Not too sure about that Barbarino kid, though."
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:01 PM on June 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
"Tremendous man. Great educator. Not too sure about that Barbarino kid, though."
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:01 PM on June 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
Will you testify under oath?
Trump: "100%"
The full answer suggests he didn't even understand the question:
KARL: So he said those things under oath, would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version of those events?
TRUMP: 100 percent. I didn’t say “under oath,” I hardly know the man, I’m not gonna say “I want you to pledge allegiance,” who would do that, who would ask a man to pledge allegiance under oath? I mean think of it, I hardly know the man, it doesn’t make sense. No I didn’t say that and I didn’t say the other.
posted by piyushnz at 1:02 PM on June 9, 2017 [60 favorites]
Trump: "100%"
The full answer suggests he didn't even understand the question:
KARL: So he said those things under oath, would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version of those events?
TRUMP: 100 percent. I didn’t say “under oath,” I hardly know the man, I’m not gonna say “I want you to pledge allegiance,” who would do that, who would ask a man to pledge allegiance under oath? I mean think of it, I hardly know the man, it doesn’t make sense. No I didn’t say that and I didn’t say the other.
posted by piyushnz at 1:02 PM on June 9, 2017 [60 favorites]
the right kind of mustard on his well-done steak
Dijon ketchup.
posted by Fleebnork at 1:02 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Dijon ketchup.
posted by Fleebnork at 1:02 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
The full answer was more shitful than the paraphrased misconclusion.
posted by petebest at 1:03 PM on June 9, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by petebest at 1:03 PM on June 9, 2017 [27 favorites]
Lying under oaf.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:06 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 1:06 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
> The Daily 202: What would it take for the Republican base to stop trusting Donald Trump?
"I propose a tremendous tax hike. I mean, just the yuuuugest you've ever seen. We’re going to tax so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of being taxed. Taxes help pay for things! A lot of people don't know that."
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:07 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
"I propose a tremendous tax hike. I mean, just the yuuuugest you've ever seen. We’re going to tax so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of being taxed. Taxes help pay for things! A lot of people don't know that."
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:07 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Lying under oaf.
*puts envelope to turban*
*rips envelope*
*blows into envelope and withdraws card*
"Melania on their anniversary"
posted by Talez at 1:08 PM on June 9, 2017 [107 favorites]
*puts envelope to turban*
*rips envelope*
*blows into envelope and withdraws card*
"Melania on their anniversary"
posted by Talez at 1:08 PM on June 9, 2017 [107 favorites]
Will you testify under oath?
Trump: "100%"
It's not possible for him to be that stupid so I assume this is just bluster.
posted by rdr at 1:09 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump: "100%"
It's not possible for him to be that stupid so I assume this is just bluster.
posted by rdr at 1:09 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
A county-level map of TrumpCare premium increases if you needed some numbers to write op-eds in your local paper or more facts to badger your Congresspeople with.
On May 24, the Congressional Budget Office estimated the House-passed American Health Care Act could cause premiums in the individual market to rise by 20 percent next year. To put CBO’s projected premium increase into perspective, we estimated how much more people in every county could expect to pay under TrumpCare in 2018.posted by spamandkimchi at 1:11 PM on June 9, 2017 [21 favorites]
The map shows that, for a forty-year-old, Marketplace premiums would increase from $494 in Blanco County, Texas to $2,376 in Yukon-Koyukuk County, Alaska. These amounts would be even higher for older enrollees who, starting in 2018, could be charged as much as five times more than young adults for individual market coverage.
This rate hike may happen even if Congress fails to pass the AHCA.
I mean, it's entirely possible for him to be that stupid. We have a provably very stupid man in the office of the President. He daily reminds the country and the world in words and deeds.
But I agree that it's bluster.
posted by cortex at 1:12 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
But I agree that it's bluster.
posted by cortex at 1:12 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Daniel Dale with the subtle shade:
Trump said he would “100 per cent” be willing to testify under oath himself. He has sometimes made confident declarations on television and then declined to follow through.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:13 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump said he would “100 per cent” be willing to testify under oath himself. He has sometimes made confident declarations on television and then declined to follow through.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:13 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm pleased that Trump denied asking Comey for loyalty before firing him, but immediately said that it would be okay if he had done so. If he really has so little understanding of what is or isn't acceptable when it comes to the president obstructing an FBI investigation, he will be more likely to stumble into admitting that he did something criminal. Or should I say, more likely to continue admitting that he did something criminal; after all, no-one forced him to blurt out that the true rationale for firing Comey was wanting to stop the Russia investigation.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Time after time, the President came to a fork in the road. Time after time, he had the opportunity to choose the noble and honorable path. Time after time, he chose the path of lies and lawlessness--for the simple reason that he did not want to endanger his hold on public office.
Paragon of Public Service*,
Mitch "Chewed My Own Nuts Off" McConnell
posted by petebest at 1:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Paragon of Public Service*,
Mitch "Chewed My Own Nuts Off" McConnell
posted by petebest at 1:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
read an older WP article today about DJT growing up. There was this really weird detail. Along with a predilection for doing things like trying to toss kids out of second-story windows, he would dig in to one particular statement and refuse to admit that he was wrong. Multiple people remembered how as a kid DJT had got a wrestler's name wrong and would refuse to acknowledge any effort to correct him. Like, he'd just keep referring to the guy by the wrong name.
I feel like there's something profound about that one detail that I can't articulate beyond what a little psycho.
posted by angrycat at 1:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [74 favorites]
I feel like there's something profound about that one detail that I can't articulate beyond what a little psycho.
posted by angrycat at 1:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [74 favorites]
in regards to:
>James Hohmann, WaPo: The Daily 202: What would it take for the Republican base to stop trusting Donald Trump?
and as has been stated several times in these threads by people way more eloquent than me:
There is not one fucking thing that trump could do to make the republican base stop trusting him. he is the goddamned WET DREAM of all republicans. they want a whites-only christian america. and tax cuts etc. thats the aim. who does not know this by now?
fuck them, btw.
posted by The_Auditor at 1:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
>James Hohmann, WaPo: The Daily 202: What would it take for the Republican base to stop trusting Donald Trump?
and as has been stated several times in these threads by people way more eloquent than me:
There is not one fucking thing that trump could do to make the republican base stop trusting him. he is the goddamned WET DREAM of all republicans. they want a whites-only christian america. and tax cuts etc. thats the aim. who does not know this by now?
fuck them, btw.
posted by The_Auditor at 1:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
I feel like there's something profound about that one detail that I can't articulate beyond what a little psycho.
This is the entire basis of his political career. He didn't admit that Obama was, in fact, born in the United States of America until September 2016. (The report by his Detective Squad shipped off to Hawaii many years earlier was never revealed.)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:17 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is the entire basis of his political career. He didn't admit that Obama was, in fact, born in the United States of America until September 2016. (The report by his Detective Squad shipped off to Hawaii many years earlier was never revealed.)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:17 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
I just remembered. Trump used to make his rally audiences pledge loyalty to him. Like, all of them. So, I mean yeah, who does that.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:19 PM on June 9, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:19 PM on June 9, 2017 [40 favorites]
Paul Kane, WaPo: Republicans close ranks around Trump during Comey testimony
This baffles me. Oh, is the house on fire? Time to build that addition!
posted by leotrotsky at 1:20 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
This baffles me. Oh, is the house on fire? Time to build that addition!
posted by leotrotsky at 1:20 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's a clip somewhere of him on the Howard Stern show getting an arithmetic problem wrong and insisting he's right.
posted by LarsC at 1:21 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by LarsC at 1:21 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Lying under oaf.
*puts envelope to turban*
*rips envelope*
*blows into envelope and withdraws card*
"Melania on their anniversary"
There should be a Twitter bot that replies "HIYO!" whenever Trump tweets.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:21 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
*puts envelope to turban*
*rips envelope*
*blows into envelope and withdraws card*
"Melania on their anniversary"
There should be a Twitter bot that replies "HIYO!" whenever Trump tweets.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:21 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
Why, after such intensely awkward questioning of the administration, will a Trump spokesperson not simply come out and say that he no longer believes anthropogenic climate change is a Chinese hoax? It's not just because they can't pronounce it. It's because to acknowledge a mistake is to show weakness.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:22 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:22 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Here's that article. He also smashed baseball bats when he struck out. Loser.
posted by angrycat at 1:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 1:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
So, I mean yeah, who does that.
You know who else made crowds at political rallies raise their right hand?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:25 PM on June 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
You know who else made crowds at political rallies raise their right hand?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:25 PM on June 9, 2017 [20 favorites]
It's not just because they can't pronounce it. It's because to acknowledge a mistake is to show weakness.
Interestingly, these are also the reasons the Web had a field day with "covfefe".
posted by InTheYear2017 at 1:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Interestingly, these are also the reasons the Web had a field day with "covfefe".
posted by InTheYear2017 at 1:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
According to the NY Times, nearly 19 MILLION people watched Comey testimony live.
So, I guess Comey > Spicer.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
So, I guess Comey > Spicer.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
So Trump is all "I will testify under oath"...what on earth is he planning, insofar as he has a plan? Just to lie? I mean, with the whole poor-man's mafioso thing he has going on, I can't imagine he actually thinks he has to tell the truth.
posted by Frowner at 1:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Frowner at 1:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
His plan is to lie. Not under oath of course; his plan is to lie about intending to testify under oath. 'Tis a wonderous plan.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:30 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:30 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
House Intelligence Committee leaders ask White House for any Comey tapes: Rep. Mike Conaway (R-Texas) and Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), the lawmakers leading the investigation, asked White House counsel Don McGahn on Friday to confirm whether any tapes exist, and if so, to produce them for the committee by June 23.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:30 PM on June 9, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:30 PM on June 9, 2017 [38 favorites]
Jesus, that press conference response. Trump has *no fucking clue* what is going on. Ever. He cannot follow a single thing.
To the surprise of no one. And the delight of the rest of the world, no doubt.
posted by Melismata at 1:30 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
To the surprise of no one. And the delight of the rest of the world, no doubt.
posted by Melismata at 1:30 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
As a 5-year-old, the boy followed his babysitter on an urban safari, descending into a sewer that was under construction beneath New York City. The light fading, the sitter grew concerned that the boy would panic. But little Donny Trump kept walking into the gathering darkness.
(unfortunately not) THE END
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:30 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
(unfortunately not) THE END
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:30 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
s a 5-year-old, the boy followed his babysitter on an urban safari, descending into a sewer that was under construction beneath New York City. The light fading, the sitter grew concerned that the boy would panic. But little Donny Trump kept walking into the gathering darkness.
And that's where he met his imaginary friend John Baron and his very real sewer were-rat friend Steve Bannon
posted by ian1977 at 1:35 PM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
And that's where he met his imaginary friend John Baron and his very real sewer were-rat friend Steve Bannon
posted by ian1977 at 1:35 PM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
That 19 million viewing figure for Comey's testimony doesn't count people livestreaming it on a work day, as well as various other TV networks. It was a major moment in American history.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:35 PM on June 9, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:35 PM on June 9, 2017 [42 favorites]
If they squeeze him a little, he will testify under ooze
posted by Namlit at 1:36 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Namlit at 1:36 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
a coup has happened. obviously. republicans know this. they are ultra-delighted... have no intention of EVER letting go of the reigns. No. Matter. What.
i feel like this is not being fully Absorbed and Understood ..ya know, in a ~REALLY DEEP WAY~ by your average not-republicans.
posted by The_Auditor at 1:37 PM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
i feel like this is not being fully Absorbed and Understood ..ya know, in a ~REALLY DEEP WAY~ by your average not-republicans.
posted by The_Auditor at 1:37 PM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Which Trump adviser do you think loses the most sleep thinking about Trump undergoing cross examination while giving testimony under oath?
posted by Tevin at 1:37 PM on June 9, 2017
posted by Tevin at 1:37 PM on June 9, 2017
As a column somewhere (I think by Petri, but I can't find it) notes, Trump is beyond time.
Currently, it is the case that he will testify under oath. However, he never actually will. If he is called out on this, he will deny ever having made such a promise. Furthermore, he already testified under oath, how could you forget? Boy , are you going to regret having made such an accusation onceTrump takes the stand, under oath (optionally).
posted by InTheYear2017 at 1:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Currently, it is the case that he will testify under oath. However, he never actually will. If he is called out on this, he will deny ever having made such a promise. Furthermore, he already testified under oath, how could you forget? Boy , are you going to regret having made such an accusation onceTrump takes the stand, under oath (optionally).
posted by InTheYear2017 at 1:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
House panel demands Trump release tapes
A House panel led by Rep. Mike Conaway (R-TX) and Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) sent a letter on Friday to White House Counsel Don McGahn demanding the release of any "tapes" of conversations between Comey and Trump.
The House committee and a Senate committee also on Friday requested copies of the memos Comey wrote documenting his meetings with Trump. They provided a deadline of June 23.
Oh boy.
posted by Tevin at 1:40 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
A House panel led by Rep. Mike Conaway (R-TX) and Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) sent a letter on Friday to White House Counsel Don McGahn demanding the release of any "tapes" of conversations between Comey and Trump.
The House committee and a Senate committee also on Friday requested copies of the memos Comey wrote documenting his meetings with Trump. They provided a deadline of June 23.
Oh boy.
posted by Tevin at 1:40 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
He will absolutely lie under oath. How is this even a question.
posted by suelac at 1:40 PM on June 9, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by suelac at 1:40 PM on June 9, 2017 [46 favorites]
A loyalty oath? Who, indeed, does that?
Trump enforces ‘loyalty oath’ at Vermont rally, ejects any who don’t comply (video clip)
oh.
posted by gatorae at 1:40 PM on June 9, 2017 [68 favorites]
Trump enforces ‘loyalty oath’ at Vermont rally, ejects any who don’t comply (video clip)
oh.
posted by gatorae at 1:40 PM on June 9, 2017 [68 favorites]
NPR: Special Counsel Robert Mueller Had Been On White House Short List to Run FBI: Mueller had gone so far as to meet with Justice Department leaders and White House officials about the FBI job, which opened after President Trump fired Director James Comey in a surprise May 9. But that idea went by the wayside after Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein instead reached out to Mueller to run the politically sensitive Russia probe, which is also examining ties between Russians and Trump campaign aides, the sources said.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:41 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:41 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
The_Auditor: a coup has happened. obviously. republicans know this. they are ultra-delighted... have no intention of EVER letting go of the reigns. No. Matter. What.
Sorry, but Gloom, Doom & Despair is ---------------> that way.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:43 PM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
Sorry, but Gloom, Doom & Despair is ---------------> that way.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:43 PM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
Trump enforces ‘loyalty oath’ at Vermont rally, ejects any who don’t comply
I just want to note that this took place at the Flynn theater.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:44 PM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
I just want to note that this took place at the Flynn theater.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:44 PM on June 9, 2017 [13 favorites]
Will you testify under oath?
Trump: "100%"
I hope someone can help here. Back around the time of the RNC, I remember seeing a link on the then current thread to an online video of Trump being deposed. It might have been concerning Trump University. A couple months ago I reread those threads and could not find it, although there were links to transcripts. I searched on YouTube and didn't see it there either.
I wanted to watch it again because he was just so frigging useless. He could only give vague answers, claimed he couldn't remember, or contradicted himself. Transcripts are all well and good but there's nothing like seeing the doofus himself in all his inarticulate, shambling glory.
Does anyone remember this??
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:45 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump: "100%"
I hope someone can help here. Back around the time of the RNC, I remember seeing a link on the then current thread to an online video of Trump being deposed. It might have been concerning Trump University. A couple months ago I reread those threads and could not find it, although there were links to transcripts. I searched on YouTube and didn't see it there either.
I wanted to watch it again because he was just so frigging useless. He could only give vague answers, claimed he couldn't remember, or contradicted himself. Transcripts are all well and good but there's nothing like seeing the doofus himself in all his inarticulate, shambling glory.
Does anyone remember this??
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:45 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
There is not one fucking thing that trump could do to make the republican base stop trusting him.
They never trusted him; they just NEED him. There are several Senate Republicans who aren't fully committed to the Evil Agenda but fear being primaried from the Right by a Koch-sucker. Others are watching the polls and wondering if Trumpy is getting so toxic that it'll be easier to survive, Evil Agenda and all, if they're led by President Pence. Both groups aren't ready to make a move yet, and probably won't until well after more Resisters like some of the MeFites above fall into despair. Certainly, if Ossoff wins in 11 days with a margin like the latest poll shows (5 points), it'll send shock waves through Washington, but not enough to shake any Rs loose of the Trump team; still, it'll add more cracks weakening their foundation.
And in retrospect, I'm believing more and more that the one event that did the most to make Hillary lose was Bill's cute little "tarmac meeting" with AG Lynch. And something inside tells me that Bill KNEW he was hurting her campaign and was never enthusiastic about her getting his old job. But then, I've been yelling at Hillary "DTMFA!!" for over 20 years.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:45 PM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
They never trusted him; they just NEED him. There are several Senate Republicans who aren't fully committed to the Evil Agenda but fear being primaried from the Right by a Koch-sucker. Others are watching the polls and wondering if Trumpy is getting so toxic that it'll be easier to survive, Evil Agenda and all, if they're led by President Pence. Both groups aren't ready to make a move yet, and probably won't until well after more Resisters like some of the MeFites above fall into despair. Certainly, if Ossoff wins in 11 days with a margin like the latest poll shows (5 points), it'll send shock waves through Washington, but not enough to shake any Rs loose of the Trump team; still, it'll add more cracks weakening their foundation.
And in retrospect, I'm believing more and more that the one event that did the most to make Hillary lose was Bill's cute little "tarmac meeting" with AG Lynch. And something inside tells me that Bill KNEW he was hurting her campaign and was never enthusiastic about her getting his old job. But then, I've been yelling at Hillary "DTMFA!!" for over 20 years.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:45 PM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
I've been telling everyone that I know that my health care coverage comes from the Medicaid expansion, along with ~4 million other women who gained coverage.
The Republican plan would "freeze" the Medicaid expansion in 2020. According to statistics compiled by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, the majority of Medicaid recipients are female, and the program "covered nearly half of poor women aged 15–44 in 2015," per a report from the Guttmacher Institute.*posted by spamandkimchi at 1:47 PM on June 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
In fact, the uninsured rate of women of reproductive age dropped by 36% between 2013 and 2015 because of the ACA's expanded coverage and subsidies, according to the report. Rolling back the ACA's Medicaid expansion and decreasing its subsidies would ensure fewer women have access to affordable, comprehensive care. (Time.com, autoplay video)
*Uninsured Rate Among Women of Reproductive Age Has Fallen More Than One-Third Under the Affordable Care Act https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2016/11/uninsured-rate-among-women-reproductive-age-has-fallen-more-one-third-under
Donald Trump deposition regarding Geoffrey Zakarian lawsuit
Highlights
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:48 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Highlights
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:48 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
yes, ok Thanks, Too-Ticky..but the point to my comment (gloomy as it appears) is actually that
it's "not being fully Absorbed and Understood in a ~REALLY DEEP WAY~ by your average not-republicans."
posted by The_Auditor at 1:51 PM on June 9, 2017
it's "not being fully Absorbed and Understood in a ~REALLY DEEP WAY~ by your average not-republicans."
posted by The_Auditor at 1:51 PM on June 9, 2017
I really hate Grover Norquist (my hatred is, in fact, so strong that I am breaking my "no Jonathan Chait rule" here:
In 2015, Grover Norquist, who has successfully defined unconditional opposition to taxes as the defining tenet of party orthodoxy, waxed enthusiastic about one state in particular that was leading the way for the nation. “Kansas is the future,” he told an interviewer. “Kansas is the model.” Kansas was the state where Sam Brownback, the former congressman who mentored a young staffer named Paul Ryan, implemented supply-side tax cuts that, Brownback promised, would usher in prosperity and fiscal stability.posted by zachlipton at 1:53 PM on June 9, 2017 [71 favorites]
Now Brownback’s tax cuts have failed so dramatically and incontrovertibly that the state’s Republican legislature overrode Brownback’s veto to eliminate them. Incredibly, a majority of the Republicans in both chambers of the state legislature voted against the tax cuts. In a new interview with Russell Berman, Norquist insists the failure in Kansas does not tell us much at all about anything. “If you’re a Republican looking for a model,” he says, “Kansas is not the model.”
This is a fine essay on Just Security: Of Laws, Not Men. It's by Jeffrey H. Smith, who has a heck of a resume across various National Security-related legal positions. It also contains first-hand corroboration for Sy Hersh's report that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs instructed military officials not to carry out orders from Nixon unless they were verified by by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Secretary of Defense first, one of the most extraordinary stories about the modern Presidency.
It is not clear how this ends, but it is not likely to end well.posted by zachlipton at 2:05 PM on June 9, 2017 [60 favorites]
In 1974, I was an Army JAG lawyer assigned to the Office of the Deputy Undersecretary of the Army for International Affairs, who was a Foreign Service Officer and career ambassador. In the days before President Nixon resigned, he called me into his office and said, “I am not supposed to show you this, but you should see it. It’s important.” It was a message from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to the four-star Commanders-in-Chief, as they were then known, saying that if they received any “execute orders” from the NCA (the National Command Authority, i.e. the President), they were not to carry them out unless the order was verified by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Secretary of Defense. This episode is now being recalled as an example of how our institutions responded in a responsible way at an extraordinary and critical time.
In Watergate, our institutions – the courts, congress, the FBI, the CIA and the media – responded as they should. It was deliberate and professional. They understood our democracy requires preserving the rule of law, that we are a nation of laws. Ultimately, they put nation over party and deserve our undying admiration.
It is now the turn of the current generation of political leadership to do the same.
He will absolutely lie under oath. How is this even a question.
He's pretty experienced at it, actually.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:06 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
He's pretty experienced at it, actually.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:06 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
They never trusted him; they just NEED him. There are several Senate Republicans who aren't fully committed to the Evil Agenda but fear being primaried from the Right by a Koch-sucker.
I talked to someone who had meetings with every Representative in their state, some of them crazy tea party people. Every one of them said they personally thought Trump was a moron, the Republicans just hoped that they could get something out of it, and "maybe it wouldn't be so bad". There really isn't a deep well of love out there.
posted by bongo_x at 2:09 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
I talked to someone who had meetings with every Representative in their state, some of them crazy tea party people. Every one of them said they personally thought Trump was a moron, the Republicans just hoped that they could get something out of it, and "maybe it wouldn't be so bad". There really isn't a deep well of love out there.
posted by bongo_x at 2:09 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
it's "not being fully Absorbed and Understood in a ~REALLY DEEP WAY~ by your average not-republicans."
To reiterate Too-Ticky's point: this is both doom and gloom, an extrapolation from the current situation unsupported by all the evidence, and a little too close to Wake Up Sheeple! to be a useful addition to the conversation. We have the facts as they are available, and the evidence of Congressional Republicans failing to exercise the duty of oversight, but this is not a fait accompli coup installing a dictator for life, at least at this point. There is work to be done, and we are going to do it.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:10 PM on June 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
To reiterate Too-Ticky's point: this is both doom and gloom, an extrapolation from the current situation unsupported by all the evidence, and a little too close to Wake Up Sheeple! to be a useful addition to the conversation. We have the facts as they are available, and the evidence of Congressional Republicans failing to exercise the duty of oversight, but this is not a fait accompli coup installing a dictator for life, at least at this point. There is work to be done, and we are going to do it.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:10 PM on June 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
>esus, that press conference response. Trump has *no fucking clue* what is going on. Ever. He cannot follow a single thing.
To the surprise of no one. And the delight of the rest of the world, no doubt.
Speaking from one part of the rest of the world (Canada), let me say that there is no delight in this. Watching the Trump administration makes me feel sad and worried. One of my work colleagues the day after the election said that she felt that Americans were not the people she thought they were, which I think is both oversimplifying (I mean, there are millions upon millions who oppose Trump) but it was also a very accurate thing for how we were feeling up here.
Our two countries have had a very long and agreeable relationship; we know we're often an afterthought from a US perspective, but America looms large for us all the time. There's often a lot of talk in Canadian circles about our need to chart a course that is more independent of the US, but what exactly that means and looks like we've never had to really dig down on because of the fact that in general, our two countries would head in the same rough direction on most issues anyways (though our differences on health care will always remain a puzzle). When we've disagreed, it has been as friends disagree - some harsh words, perhaps, but eventually we figure it out. Now...well, now we've got our Foreign Minister making speeches that include passages about the fact that America is apparently deciding to put aside the "mantle of global leadership" and what that means for us as a nation. That we might not be going in the same general direction anymore. It's a different tone - it's still a very cautious, gentle, friendly tone with respect to America - but we're starting to look around and see how to strengthen our relationships with the rest of the world because we no longer expect to have as close a relationship with the US as we have had. And I don't think it's a bad thing for us to look to our relationships with the rest of the world, period - it is in fact, a vital, critical thing to do; it is the fact that we're putting emphasis on it now, because of the situation in the US that makes me feel sad. It feels like our relationship status has moved from "besties" to "it's complicated".
posted by nubs at 2:13 PM on June 9, 2017 [32 favorites]
It was a message from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to the four-star Commanders-in-Chief, as they were then known, saying that if they received any “execute orders” from the NCA (the National Command Authority, i.e. the President), they were not to carry them out unless the order was verified by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Secretary of Defense.
The way this is phrased is interesting: the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Secretary of Defense would not be "approving" the orders, but "verifying" that they are indeed lawful orders from the President. Since the oath of enlistment requires that one will "obey the orders of the President of the United States" perhaps this wording means the plan would be legally permissible.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:19 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
The way this is phrased is interesting: the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Secretary of Defense would not be "approving" the orders, but "verifying" that they are indeed lawful orders from the President. Since the oath of enlistment requires that one will "obey the orders of the President of the United States" perhaps this wording means the plan would be legally permissible.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:19 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
That 19 million viewing figure for Comey's testimony doesn't count people livestreaming it on a work day, as well as various other TV networks. It was a major moment in American history.
Yeah. That number has to be too small. A German friend of mine posted a picture of herself watching the Comey hearing from Berlin, and a Bulgarian co-worker (remote work), with whom I've never talked politics, pinged me that day: "Are you watching this Comey thing?!"
This was world history.
posted by dis_integration at 2:26 PM on June 9, 2017 [35 favorites]
Yeah. That number has to be too small. A German friend of mine posted a picture of herself watching the Comey hearing from Berlin, and a Bulgarian co-worker (remote work), with whom I've never talked politics, pinged me that day: "Are you watching this Comey thing?!"
This was world history.
posted by dis_integration at 2:26 PM on June 9, 2017 [35 favorites]
Thank you East Manitoba. I misremembered it as being from a few years ago and not about the restaurant lease.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:28 PM on June 9, 2017
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:28 PM on June 9, 2017
Trump used to make his rally audiences pledge loyalty to him. Like, all of them. So, I mean yeah, who does that.
For the record, G Dubz and Richard "What A Dick" Cheney were the first Presidents to do it outside of drunkenly threatening Kissinger. (Which, hey - who hasn't.)
posted by petebest at 2:29 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
For the record, G Dubz and Richard "What A Dick" Cheney were the first Presidents to do it outside of drunkenly threatening Kissinger. (Which, hey - who hasn't.)
posted by petebest at 2:29 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
A county-level map of TrumpCare premium increases
Compare and contrast: 2016 US Presidential Election Map By County & Vote Share
posted by kirkaracha at 2:35 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just now watching Trump's speech at the DOT today and I'm... kind of stunned (though not at all surprised). Seriously, what's with Trump's obsession with how much paperwork is involved with, like, really complex things?
I mean, I get that regulations, specifically permitting maybe, can stop businesspeople from making as much money as they otherwise could, as quickly as they otherwise might, but...? Does that automatically equate to "bad for the country?" Does dude honestly believe a responsible government would allow just "a few simple pages" worth of documentation to suffice regarding infrastructure?
Does he understand how lunkheaded he sounds? I know nothing about how to build a bridge, or research medicine, or run a company for that matter. But you know what? I'll defer to the people who do know these things, and assume that the processes their work entails would fill a fuckton of pages and binders, and yes, even entails some unprofitable results anathema to lining the pockets of the wealthy.
And those union laborers he recognized in the crowd? Do they not care about the man's track record on hiring union labor? On how he's treated non-union labor? Do they not understand that "reducing pesky paperwork and gutting pesky regulations" translates pretty directly into their own unsafe work environments and depressed wages—not to mention cost-cutting that undermines their own interests? Why are they clapping and not calling for this man's head?
This is, to borrow from David Cross, why I drink.
posted by Rykey at 2:37 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
I mean, I get that regulations, specifically permitting maybe, can stop businesspeople from making as much money as they otherwise could, as quickly as they otherwise might, but...? Does that automatically equate to "bad for the country?" Does dude honestly believe a responsible government would allow just "a few simple pages" worth of documentation to suffice regarding infrastructure?
Does he understand how lunkheaded he sounds? I know nothing about how to build a bridge, or research medicine, or run a company for that matter. But you know what? I'll defer to the people who do know these things, and assume that the processes their work entails would fill a fuckton of pages and binders, and yes, even entails some unprofitable results anathema to lining the pockets of the wealthy.
And those union laborers he recognized in the crowd? Do they not care about the man's track record on hiring union labor? On how he's treated non-union labor? Do they not understand that "reducing pesky paperwork and gutting pesky regulations" translates pretty directly into their own unsafe work environments and depressed wages—not to mention cost-cutting that undermines their own interests? Why are they clapping and not calling for this man's head?
This is, to borrow from David Cross, why I drink.
posted by Rykey at 2:37 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
In the Small Potatoes but Still Irritating Dept. the United States District Court Central District of California issued a ruling that not only denied the Dept. of Education's move to extend a 2-yr delay on student loan relief but also noted this misspelling:
I was thinking just this morning how irritating I find all this shoddy work coming out of this White House. I know that this supposedly endears Trump and his administration to the fan base but I don't really understand why lazy, careless writing is acceptable when we expect perfect work from our car mechanics, our surgeons, and our CPAs. I'm sure that if someone's kid came home from school with a letter from the teacher that referred to the Predisent or used the word "anyways" or misspelled the child's name that would not be acceptable. Why do people think it is no big deal when it is coming from lawyers who work for the White House?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [49 favorites]
DeVos serves as the defendant in this matter pursuant to her official capacity as the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Education. Counsel for Defendant incorrectly spells Defendant’s name as “Davos” in several locations.
I was thinking just this morning how irritating I find all this shoddy work coming out of this White House. I know that this supposedly endears Trump and his administration to the fan base but I don't really understand why lazy, careless writing is acceptable when we expect perfect work from our car mechanics, our surgeons, and our CPAs. I'm sure that if someone's kid came home from school with a letter from the teacher that referred to the Predisent or used the word "anyways" or misspelled the child's name that would not be acceptable. Why do people think it is no big deal when it is coming from lawyers who work for the White House?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [49 favorites]
He keeps pronouncing it like "guitar." That's one thing I won't fault him for. Most newsies pronounce it "cutter" these days, but I heard a reporter from Qatar pronounce it "kuh-TAR."
My daughter went there on a short study program. She said that the standard Arabic pronunciation is "cutter" but the actual Qatari dialect would say "gutter."
posted by msalt at 2:39 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
My daughter went there on a short study program. She said that the standard Arabic pronunciation is "cutter" but the actual Qatari dialect would say "gutter."
posted by msalt at 2:39 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
I talked to someone who had meetings with every Representative in their state, some of them crazy tea party people. Every one of them said they personally thought Trump was a moron, the Republicans just hoped that they could get something out of it, and "maybe it wouldn't be so bad". There really isn't a deep well of love out there.
Cynical exploitation of the situation might actually be worse. These assholes already know there's an incompetent wielding the full power of the U.S. executive and are willing to live with it to get their tax cuts, institutional racism and dead poor people. No revelation about Trump's abuses will cause the scales to fall from their eyes because they were never under the impression that he wouldn't abuse power.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:41 PM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Cynical exploitation of the situation might actually be worse. These assholes already know there's an incompetent wielding the full power of the U.S. executive and are willing to live with it to get their tax cuts, institutional racism and dead poor people. No revelation about Trump's abuses will cause the scales to fall from their eyes because they were never under the impression that he wouldn't abuse power.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:41 PM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Speaking from Canada ... One of my work colleagues the day after the election said that she felt that Americans were not the people she thought they were, which I think is both oversimplifying (I mean, there are millions upon millions who oppose Trump) but it was also a very accurate thing for how we were feeling up here.
If it helps, that's how a lot of Americans are feeling too. The statistics are just ... in my county, 64,000 people voted for him, 42%. And sometimes I walk around and wonder, was it you? I've seen a few essays describing this too, like one that said she looks at white people a little differently now. It's like a horror movie. Like the body-snatchers, or shapeshifting monsters, where it looks like your neighbor talking to you but maybe, just maybe, it isn't. So- not just you.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 2:42 PM on June 9, 2017 [59 favorites]
If it helps, that's how a lot of Americans are feeling too. The statistics are just ... in my county, 64,000 people voted for him, 42%. And sometimes I walk around and wonder, was it you? I've seen a few essays describing this too, like one that said she looks at white people a little differently now. It's like a horror movie. Like the body-snatchers, or shapeshifting monsters, where it looks like your neighbor talking to you but maybe, just maybe, it isn't. So- not just you.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 2:42 PM on June 9, 2017 [59 favorites]
Um. WSJ: U.S. in Talks With Moscow on Syria Safe Zone
posted by zachlipton at 2:43 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Trump administration has been holding secret talks with Russia to try to set up a de-escalation zone in southwest Syria, where Syrian government forces and rebels would be separated in hopes of ending hostilities in the region, officials familiar with the talks said.The problem with our present state of affairs is that every bit of cooperation, whether it's appropriate or not, is tainted by Russia's actions during the election and Trump's encouragement of the same.
At least two meetings have taken place so far, the last of which took place about two weeks ago in Jordan, where Jordanian officials also took part. The meetings followed a visit by U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to Moscow in April. Another meeting scheduled in Amman for this week was canceled because of scheduling conflicts, and a new date hasn’t been set, a U.S. official said.
posted by zachlipton at 2:43 PM on June 9, 2017 [5 favorites]
this is not a fait accompli coup installing a dictator for life, at least at this point.
Oh man, I feel SO much better now than I did back in Janurary/February.
Everyone was just acting like everything was normal. I felt like there was a crisis, but no one else could see it. His approval rating was close to 50%! Like a normal president! He gave that a address to Congress and people cheered.
I thought I was crazy. I got paranoid. I thought we were going to slip quietly into autocracy by degrees, and no one was going to really even fight back. I thought we were really on our way to becoming a literal, Russian-style oligarchy with only the trappings of democracy, and we were going to give up our freedoms without a fight. Without even noticing.
Now, we've noticed! One way or another, there will be a fight. The majority has awoken to the fact that we ARE the majority.
Tim Synder says in "On Tyranny":
And not only are we the majority (Trump has a 34% approval rating now!) but in the economic powerhouses of the country, we are the vast majority. In the great cities where all the resources and power actually are, Trump has little support.
Trumpists might not realize it yet, but they have a very weak hand, in historical terms. And they are playing it INCREDIBLY badly. We are lucky they are idiots.
I feel SO much better than I did. I think the only way that the "coup" can be successful now is if we give up.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:44 PM on June 9, 2017 [65 favorites]
Oh man, I feel SO much better now than I did back in Janurary/February.
Everyone was just acting like everything was normal. I felt like there was a crisis, but no one else could see it. His approval rating was close to 50%! Like a normal president! He gave that a address to Congress and people cheered.
I thought I was crazy. I got paranoid. I thought we were going to slip quietly into autocracy by degrees, and no one was going to really even fight back. I thought we were really on our way to becoming a literal, Russian-style oligarchy with only the trappings of democracy, and we were going to give up our freedoms without a fight. Without even noticing.
Now, we've noticed! One way or another, there will be a fight. The majority has awoken to the fact that we ARE the majority.
Tim Synder says in "On Tyranny":
Do not obey in advance. Most of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then offer themselves without being asked.We are not doing that, now. Majorities can really only be oppressed effectively when they don't realize they are the majority. I think we've realized.
And not only are we the majority (Trump has a 34% approval rating now!) but in the economic powerhouses of the country, we are the vast majority. In the great cities where all the resources and power actually are, Trump has little support.
Trumpists might not realize it yet, but they have a very weak hand, in historical terms. And they are playing it INCREDIBLY badly. We are lucky they are idiots.
I feel SO much better than I did. I think the only way that the "coup" can be successful now is if we give up.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:44 PM on June 9, 2017 [65 favorites]
And sometimes I walk around and wonder, was it you? I've seen a few essays describing this too, like one that said she looks at white people a little differently now.
How Whites Voted In The 2016 US Presidential Election by State & County
2016 Presidential Maps if only [X] Voted
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:45 PM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
How Whites Voted In The 2016 US Presidential Election by State & County
2016 Presidential Maps if only [X] Voted
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:45 PM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
DeVos serves as the defendant in this matter pursuant to her official capacity as the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Education. Counsel for Defendant incorrectly spells Defendant’s name as “Davos” in several locations.
Ser DeVos Shitworth, The Illiteracy Knight
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:50 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
Ser DeVos Shitworth, The Illiteracy Knight
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:50 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
Katha Pollitt, Nation: Lack of Empathy Is Not the Problem: Progressives want education, health care, and housing for everyone. And we’re the close-minded ones?
Sorry, self-abasing liberal pundits: If you go by actual deeds, liberals and leftists are the ones with empathy. We want everyone to have health care, for example, even those Tea Partiers who in the debate over the Affordable Care Act loudly asserted that people who can’t afford treatment should just die. We want everyone to be decently paid for their labor, no matter how low they wear their pants—somehow the party that claims to be the voice of working people has no problem with paying them so little they’re eligible for food stamps, which that same party wants to take away. We want college to be affordable for everyone—even for the children of parents who didn’t start saving for college when the pregnancy test came out positive. We want everyone to be free to worship as they please—including Muslims—even if we ourselves are nonbelievers.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:50 PM on June 9, 2017 [78 favorites]
"Disclaimer: This post was written before the 2016 election results, so was a best guess as to how each group would vote."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:51 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:51 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Counsel for Defendant incorrectly spells Defendant’s name as “Davos” in several locations.
Ooh, the InfoWars crowd isn't going to like that
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:53 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ooh, the InfoWars crowd isn't going to like that
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:53 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
So DJT is off to his golf course in Bedminster for another "working weekend."
Foreign Policy: Trump Discovers Article 5 After Disastrous NATO Visit
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:01 PM on June 9, 2017 [58 favorites]
Foreign Policy: Trump Discovers Article 5 After Disastrous NATO Visit
Trump had two versions of prepared remarks for the dinner, one that took a traditional tack and one prepared by the more NATO-skeptic advisors, Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon. “He dumped both of them and improvised,” one source briefed on the dinner told FP.Terrific. I'm so glad that he represents my country.
During the dinner, Trump went off-script to criticize allies again for not spending enough on defense. (The United States is one of only five members that meets NATO members’ pledge to spend 2 percent of GDP on defense.)
Several sources briefed extensively on the dinner say he said 2 percent wasn’t enough and allies should spend 3 percent of GDP on defense, and he even threatened to cut back U.S. defense spending and have Europeans dole out “back pay” to make up for their low defense spending if they didn’t pony up quickly enough. Two sources say Trump didn’t mention Russia once during the dinner.
“Oh, it was like a total shitshow,” said one source, who spoke on condition of anonymity as they weren’t authorized to discuss the closed-door dinner.
“The dinner was far worse than the speech,” said a former senior U.S. government official briefed on dinner. “It was a train wreck. It was awful.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:01 PM on June 9, 2017 [58 favorites]
National Treasure Charles P. Pierce at Esquire:
Washington these days is stuck in a kind of Cassandra Syndrome. Everybody knows the disaster is coming but nobody knows how to stop it, and too many people don't want to because they figure they can get rich selling off the ruins. But everybody knows the disaster is coming. People talk about it matter-of-factly, the way they talk about rain when the dark clouds gather over the monuments by the river. They also talk about it in whispers while every institution of democratic government screams for help. The government of the United States is in the hands of feckless time-servers and coat-holders at one end of Pennsylvania Avenue, and in the hands of an unpredictable and perilous clown show at the other. It is an altogether remarkable, if terrifying, place to be as summer comes on.posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:12 PM on June 9, 2017 [38 favorites]
Sorry witchen, sounds like you have a tough row to hoe. All you can do is listen and try to bring in whatever experiences and opinions your friend has as a place of common ground. Maybe ask if they think a President asking for a personal oath of loyalty is out of line. Then point out the legal problems that the ex-head of the FBI would face if he lied under oath and if she thinks he would do such a thing.
Charles Pierce Everybody in Washington Knows the Disaster Is Coming
Charles Pierce Everybody in Washington Knows the Disaster Is Coming
Washington these days is stuck in a kind of Cassandra Syndrome. Everybody knows the disaster is coming but nobody knows how to stop it, and too many people don't want to because they figure they can get rich selling off the ruins. But everybody knows the disaster is coming. People talk about it matter-of-factly, the way they talk about rain when the dark clouds gather over the monuments by the river. They also talk about it in whispers while every institution of democratic government screams for help. The government of the United States is in the hands of feckless time-servers and coat-holders at one end of Pennsylvania Avenue, and in the hands of an unpredictable and perilous clown show at the other. It is an altogether remarkable, if terrifying, place to be as summer comes on.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Jesus, won't somebody get the net?
Oh, c'mon, wichen, we were given this yesterday: Trump's paid personal counsel said he said DJT was truthful and Comey was a big, very tall liar who wouldn't swear loyalty to the Orange Cheeto (not that he was asked to).
That's practically the same as whatever that press thing was the Comey held yesterday.
posted by mosk at 3:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's practically the same as whatever that press thing was the Comey held yesterday.
posted by mosk at 3:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Everybody knows the disaster is coming
Which one??
posted by yoga at 3:21 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Which one??
posted by yoga at 3:21 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
All of them!
posted by Room 641-A at 3:23 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 3:23 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
All of them.
And I'm only half-joking.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:23 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
And I'm only half-joking.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:23 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
It occurred to me that when Trump tweeted that Comey had lied in his testimony, he was accusing him of perjury -- a serious felony and generally considered a crime of moral turpitude -- which could (in my layperson's understanding) count as libel. Then, I wondered, what if Comey tried to actually sue Trump for libel? How would you even serve papers to a POTUS?
posted by mhum at 3:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mhum at 3:24 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Counsel for Defendant incorrectly spells Defendant’s name as “Davos” in several locations.
Or maybe they were misspelling Davros. (Which would explain a LOT)
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:27 PM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
Or maybe they were misspelling Davros. (Which would explain a LOT)
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:27 PM on June 9, 2017 [15 favorites]
Quinnipiac, June 8: Merkel Challenges Trump As Leader Of Free World, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Voters Oppose GOP Health Care Bill Almost 4-1
Lots of bad news for #FuckingRepublicans:
Lots of bad news for #FuckingRepublicans:
Only 46 percent of American voters say President Donald Trump is the "leader of the free world," while 29 percent say German Chancellor Angela Merkel now fills that role[…]posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:27 PM on June 9, 2017 [34 favorites]
Voters disapprove 60 - 35 percent of the way Trump is handling foreign policy and disapprove 60 - 35 percent of the way he is handling relations with European allies.
Trump did a bad job on his first foreign trip as president, voters say 51 - 40 percent.
American voters disapprove 62 - 17 percent of the Republican health care plan, compared to a 57 - 20 percent disapproval in a May 25 Quinnipiac University poll. Today, Republicans approve of the health care plan 42 - 25 percent, as every other listed party, gender, education, age or racial group disapproves by wide margins.
American voters say 51 - 39 percent that they would like to see the Democratic Party win control of the House of Representatives. Independent voters are divided as 43 percent want Republican control and 42 percent want Democratic control. By a similar 52 - 39 percent, voters would like to see Democrats win control of the U.S. Senate. Again, independent voters are divided, with 42 percent for Republicans and 43 percent for Democrats.
The United States Secretary of Health and Human Services has posted an Obamacare attack ad to his Twitter feed. It is not clear who produced or paid for the ad.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [31 favorites]
Bloomberg: Trump Plans First Meeting as President With Putin in July, Official Says
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Donald Trump will hold his first meeting as president with Russian President Vladimir Putin in July at the annual Group of 20 summit of leaders of major economies in Germany, an administration official said.Well that should be interesting. I wonder what they will talk about and who will be in the room when they meet.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Bloomberg: Trump Plans First Meeting as President With Putin in July, Official Says
More people might tune in for the handshake than watched Comey's testimony yesterday
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:31 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
More people might tune in for the handshake than watched Comey's testimony yesterday
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:31 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
WTF Independent voters?
Most likely not paying attention to the unfolding Trumptastrophe, which is probably better for their livers.
"Maybe you should try that!" notyou's liver cries out.
posted by notyou at 3:32 PM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Most likely not paying attention to the unfolding Trumptastrophe, which is probably better for their livers.
"Maybe you should try that!" notyou's liver cries out.
posted by notyou at 3:32 PM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
You know, Mr. Trump, every time you say the word "leaker" all I can think about is piss, right? And then I start thinking about you and Russian prostitutes.
I'm not sure this is as effective a strategy as you think it is.
posted by threeturtles at 3:35 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm not sure this is as effective a strategy as you think it is.
posted by threeturtles at 3:35 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
the replies to that tweeted attack ad are worth reading
posted by angrycat at 3:35 PM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 3:35 PM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Then, I wondered, what if Comey tried to actually sue Trump for libel? How would you even serve papers to a POTUS?
Clinton v. Jones establishes that there is no special immunity from private civil suit derived from holding the office of President. In this case, I think the argument would turn on whether Trump could be said to be discharging the functions of his office in libelling Comey. I'm far from a scholar of these questions, however, so if better informed heads than mine wish to tell me more, I'd be very interested!
posted by howfar at 3:36 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Clinton v. Jones establishes that there is no special immunity from private civil suit derived from holding the office of President. In this case, I think the argument would turn on whether Trump could be said to be discharging the functions of his office in libelling Comey. I'm far from a scholar of these questions, however, so if better informed heads than mine wish to tell me more, I'd be very interested!
posted by howfar at 3:36 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Politico Conservatives near revolt on Senate health care negotiations
Meanwhile the other conservatives are whining about how much they have compromised and that the "moderate" Republicans have to do some compromising of their own. It sounds like they are far from a bill that will get 50 votes, but who knows? The House managed to pass their POS when everyone thought it couldn't happen.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:40 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
the Senate bill continues to tilt toward more moderate members of the GOP on keeping some of Obamacare’s regulatory structure and providing a more generous wind-down of the law’s Medicaid expansion. The movement has made Republicans increasingly pessimistic that two critical conservative senators, Mike Lee of Utah and Rand Paul of Kentucky, will be able to vote for the GOP’s ultimate agreement on healthcare, according to senators and aides.Rand Paul says he is trying to push the bill to the right and that the current bill keeps too much ObamaCare. He also said he doesn't want to create high risk pools. Because, ya know, if you are really sick and aren't a multi-millionaire then too bad for you-- you should have tugged on those booststraps a bit harder. He really is a piece of work.
“I think [Lee is a no]. And Rand will be a no," said a Republican senator granted anonymity to discuss sensitive internal conference matters.
Losing those two senators would be a major blow that would allow Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell no further defections in his 52-senator majority and make Sen. Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska the key swing votes, further imperiling conservatives’ negotiating position in a Senate where McConnell needs 50 votes at a minimum.
Meanwhile the other conservatives are whining about how much they have compromised and that the "moderate" Republicans have to do some compromising of their own. It sounds like they are far from a bill that will get 50 votes, but who knows? The House managed to pass their POS when everyone thought it couldn't happen.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:40 PM on June 9, 2017 [16 favorites]
Everybody knows the disaster is coming but nobody knows how to stop it, and too many people don't want to because they figure they can get rich selling off the ruins.
I said before, the Republicans are there to loot, not to lead. They change some laws, make some money, oh, and pack the Supreme Court if they have time. They know they'll probably get voted/kicked out and it will all be overturned, as long as they don't go to jail. Dictatorship and all that is a stretch goal not that many are interested in, but they can look the other way over a little treason to make a buck.
They took the job temporarily to steal from the cash register and everyone keeps saying "What are you doing? You'll never make assistant manager that way!"
posted by bongo_x at 3:51 PM on June 9, 2017 [58 favorites]
I said before, the Republicans are there to loot, not to lead. They change some laws, make some money, oh, and pack the Supreme Court if they have time. They know they'll probably get voted/kicked out and it will all be overturned, as long as they don't go to jail. Dictatorship and all that is a stretch goal not that many are interested in, but they can look the other way over a little treason to make a buck.
They took the job temporarily to steal from the cash register and everyone keeps saying "What are you doing? You'll never make assistant manager that way!"
posted by bongo_x at 3:51 PM on June 9, 2017 [58 favorites]
I would really not bank on the integrity of so-called "moderate" Republicans. They'll agree to something, and it will be something that the right-wing will vote for. And if that means no insurance for sick people, so be it. You should have thought of that when you decided to get sick.
Has everyone resist-botted their senators today? You can resistbot through Facebook instant message, and it's even easier for those of us who prefer typing to using a phone keyboard.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:00 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Has everyone resist-botted their senators today? You can resistbot through Facebook instant message, and it's even easier for those of us who prefer typing to using a phone keyboard.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:00 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Clinton v. Jones establishes that there is no special immunity from private civil suit derived from holding the office of President. In this case, I think the argument would turn on whether Trump could be said to be discharging the functions of his office in libelling Comey. I'm far from a scholar of these questions, however, so if better informed heads than mine wish to tell me more, I'd be very interested!
Lawfare had a good piece on Can a President’s Absolute Immunity be Trumped? that talks about the standards here (realizing that no such lawsuit is going to be filed and this is purely an academic question).
The standard in Nixon v. Fitzgerald is that the President is personally immune from civil suits for "acts within the ‘outer perimeter’ of his official responsibility." Here's what they say about defamation:
posted by zachlipton at 4:03 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lawfare had a good piece on Can a President’s Absolute Immunity be Trumped? that talks about the standards here (realizing that no such lawsuit is going to be filed and this is purely an academic question).
The standard in Nixon v. Fitzgerald is that the President is personally immune from civil suits for "acts within the ‘outer perimeter’ of his official responsibility." Here's what they say about defamation:
Speech-related misconduct is, to us, a harder case for immunity. Yes, speaking is, often, an integral part of the President’s discharge of his official duties. But libel and slander do not flow from those official duties in quite the same manner that wrongful termination flows from personnel supervision. Indeed, we think the Eighth Circuit was onto something in Clinton v. Jones in suggesting that a defamation claim against a sitting President could very well involve conduct falling outside the “outer perimeter” of the his official duties, especially if the defamatory statements came in an unofficial context (like, for example, Twitter), as opposed to in a more formal, official setting. This is particularly the case if, as Quinta points out in her “King’s Two Bodies” article, the Twitter account used is Trump’s personal one (@realDonaldTrump), which predates his presidency, instead of the official presidential account (@POTUS), which is also at his disposal. (Indeed, an argument from the government that the President’s personal Twitter account isn’t subject to the Presidential Records Act might only bolster this argument.) Consider this question: If Trump were to respond to this article by tweeting, “Steve Vladeck and Benjamin Wittes are perpetrators of #FakeNews—and they molest children” from an account associated with his personal capacity, not his presidency, would Fitzgerald really immunize that act absolutely?Personally, I think you could make a reasonable argument that what he said about Comey's testimony belongs within the "outer perimeter" of the responsibilities of the office. Speaking about a conversation he had with a government employee about government business is pretty directly related to the office. Giving a press conference and responding to things people say you did as President is a Presidential activity. I can think of plenty of possible ways in which Trump could defame someone that would be outside that perimeter (if he, say, woke up one morning and randomly started accusing Rosie O'Donnell of some horrible thing perhaps), but it seems hard for me to swallow that accusing Comey of lying under oath is it.
posted by zachlipton at 4:03 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's hard to believe we're already at the end of Infrastructure Week.
posted by chrchr at 4:04 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 4:04 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Katha Pollitt, Nation: Lack of Empathy Is Not the Problem: Progressives want education, health care, and housing for everyone. And we’re the close-minded ones? "But here’s my question: Who is telling the Tea Partiers and Trump voters to empathize with the rest of us? Why is it all one way?"
I'm beginning to develop a theory about why progressives keep getting told they need to "reach out" and "show more empathy" for white Trump voters. It's because the 2016 election was a referendum on emotional labor. Specifically it was a privileged group's rejection of even the suggestion that they should do any emotional labor for the less privileged, rationalized by the assertion that "those people" enjoy way more privilege [insert racist trope here], so if anybody deserves special consideration or reparations, it's aggrieved white people. Demands for empathy are just an attempt shift responsibility for emotional labor wholly back on to the people who were doing it the whole time. To put us back in our place. To show us who's boss. Because in their framework *of course* the question of who does EL and who receives it is fundamentally one of domination and submission.
There's a lot of cognitive dissonance here that I don't feel qualified to unpack, but the core conflict seems to be that on the one hand, the American Aggrieved sense that they are in possession of *some* privilege, which manifests in, e.g., the ability to decide who "qualifies" for food and healthcare, but on the other, their sense of grievance depends on equating taxation with a lack -- or theft -- of that privilege. So the expectation of empathy, whether in welcoming refugees or supporting the local Pride parade or paying taxes for services they might not use directly, threatens their core identity. Not their claimed one(s) but their subconscious one, as members of a tribe that receives but not does not submit tribute.
Absent the language to articulate how or why being asked to empathize with those unlike them is so upsetting, they reframe their objections in moral terms. And I'm beginning to think that the reason we keep talking past each other is that the progressive empathy Katha Pollitt describes is, in their framework, actually immoral. Empathy for the less privileged is theft of their emotional labor in the same way and for the same reason taxation is theft of their actual labor.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 4:16 PM on June 9, 2017 [78 favorites]
I'm beginning to develop a theory about why progressives keep getting told they need to "reach out" and "show more empathy" for white Trump voters. It's because the 2016 election was a referendum on emotional labor. Specifically it was a privileged group's rejection of even the suggestion that they should do any emotional labor for the less privileged, rationalized by the assertion that "those people" enjoy way more privilege [insert racist trope here], so if anybody deserves special consideration or reparations, it's aggrieved white people. Demands for empathy are just an attempt shift responsibility for emotional labor wholly back on to the people who were doing it the whole time. To put us back in our place. To show us who's boss. Because in their framework *of course* the question of who does EL and who receives it is fundamentally one of domination and submission.
There's a lot of cognitive dissonance here that I don't feel qualified to unpack, but the core conflict seems to be that on the one hand, the American Aggrieved sense that they are in possession of *some* privilege, which manifests in, e.g., the ability to decide who "qualifies" for food and healthcare, but on the other, their sense of grievance depends on equating taxation with a lack -- or theft -- of that privilege. So the expectation of empathy, whether in welcoming refugees or supporting the local Pride parade or paying taxes for services they might not use directly, threatens their core identity. Not their claimed one(s) but their subconscious one, as members of a tribe that receives but not does not submit tribute.
Absent the language to articulate how or why being asked to empathize with those unlike them is so upsetting, they reframe their objections in moral terms. And I'm beginning to think that the reason we keep talking past each other is that the progressive empathy Katha Pollitt describes is, in their framework, actually immoral. Empathy for the less privileged is theft of their emotional labor in the same way and for the same reason taxation is theft of their actual labor.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 4:16 PM on June 9, 2017 [78 favorites]
I think the fact that Trump didn't apologize or feel guilt ever during the election campaign (except to Carly Fiorina) suggests that Trump voters hate feeling guilty (particularly about white privilege) and love a guy who doesn't feel guilt at all.
posted by puddledork at 4:22 PM on June 9, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 4:22 PM on June 9, 2017 [41 favorites]
It sounds like they are far from a bill that will get 50 votes, but who knows?
I'm not sure how much I believe the reports of the Senate R's lacking the votes; the only sources in them seem to be Republicans and I'm suspicious they are portraying more dissent than exists in reality. They're trying to make people think they don't need to worry while they secretly sharpen the knives.
posted by nubs at 4:26 PM on June 9, 2017 [22 favorites]
I'm not sure how much I believe the reports of the Senate R's lacking the votes; the only sources in them seem to be Republicans and I'm suspicious they are portraying more dissent than exists in reality. They're trying to make people think they don't need to worry while they secretly sharpen the knives.
posted by nubs at 4:26 PM on June 9, 2017 [22 favorites]
Corollary to puddledork's idea: Trump voters don't want to know enough about anything to have to worry (and thus maybe feel guilty) about it.
posted by Rykey at 4:31 PM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 4:31 PM on June 9, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yeah. Even that time when they were an hour away from putting the bill on the floor in the House and it all fell apart turned out to be a fakeout, since they passed something substantially similar a month later. I wouldn't put much trust in any report that the AHCA isn't a serious threat right now.
As a sidenote, Price tweeted out a video attacking Obamacare and a lot of people are asking whether it was produced with government funds and raising questions about the legality of such propaganda (agencies aren't allowed to lobby Congress).
posted by zachlipton at 4:32 PM on June 9, 2017 [26 favorites]
As a sidenote, Price tweeted out a video attacking Obamacare and a lot of people are asking whether it was produced with government funds and raising questions about the legality of such propaganda (agencies aren't allowed to lobby Congress).
posted by zachlipton at 4:32 PM on June 9, 2017 [26 favorites]
FCC security denies that guards pinned journalist against a wall
Chairman Pai promises security changes as reporter stands by allegations.
posted by XMLicious at 4:33 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Chairman Pai promises security changes as reporter stands by allegations.
posted by XMLicious at 4:33 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Corollary to puddledork's idea: Trump voters don't want to know enough about anything to have to worry (and thus maybe feel guilty) about it.
Trump voters are the same jackasses at the watercooler/party/picnic who respond to every discussion of international affairs with "WHY DON'T WE JUST NUKE 'EM?" They don't give a fuck about how many innocent people would be hurt or the other repercussions beyond that. They're just cool with whatever "solution" looks big and powerful and keeps them on top.
And one of them got elected.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:41 PM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trump voters are the same jackasses at the watercooler/party/picnic who respond to every discussion of international affairs with "WHY DON'T WE JUST NUKE 'EM?" They don't give a fuck about how many innocent people would be hurt or the other repercussions beyond that. They're just cool with whatever "solution" looks big and powerful and keeps them on top.
And one of them got elected.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:41 PM on June 9, 2017 [11 favorites]
@Lawrence O'Donnell Rachel @maddow was #1 in cable last night not just cable news. She's hitting ratings highs no one in cable news ever has.Including O'Reilly
Interesting. It really sounds like the complacent have woken from their slumbers and become interested in politics now that the country is going to hell in a Trump basket.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 PM on June 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
Interesting. It really sounds like the complacent have woken from their slumbers and become interested in politics now that the country is going to hell in a Trump basket.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 PM on June 9, 2017 [29 favorites]
I hope we have a summer to rival 1973 in televised hearings and such
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:48 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:48 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
@Trip Gabriel Personal anecdote: Candidate Trump once said he had taped a call with me, after disputing how he was quoted. I asked to hear it. Never did.
@Michael Barbaro This happened to me as well. He always acted as if he was recording it.
Now I'm beginning to wonder if he does routinely record people but never produces the tapes because he knows it won't corroborate him. It seems weird to think he would use it as a threat all the time but never bother to do the taping-- it isn't that hard.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:53 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
@Michael Barbaro This happened to me as well. He always acted as if he was recording it.
Now I'm beginning to wonder if he does routinely record people but never produces the tapes because he knows it won't corroborate him. It seems weird to think he would use it as a threat all the time but never bother to do the taping-- it isn't that hard.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:53 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Now I'm beginning to wonder if he does routinely record people but never produces the tapes because he knows it won't corroborate him.
Could be, but that would mean he'd have to do something instead of just talk shit. Shit talking is easier.
posted by bongo_x at 4:56 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Could be, but that would mean he'd have to do something instead of just talk shit. Shit talking is easier.
posted by bongo_x at 4:56 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
And yet again, "hope".
@noamscheiber:
Turns out the NLRB has ruled that when your boss says he "hopes" you do something, it's basically an order. https://onlabor.org/2017/06/09/workers-understand-a-bosss-hopes/
@noamscheiber:
Turns out the NLRB has ruled that when your boss says he "hopes" you do something, it's basically an order. https://onlabor.org/2017/06/09/workers-understand-a-bosss-hopes/
In a 1995 case, KNTV, Inc., the company president had a private meeting with a reporter where the president told the reporter, “I hope you won’t continue to be an agitator or antagonize the people in the newsroom.” The NLRB found that the statement was coercive in large part because it was made by the company’s highest ranking official and it was made in a meeting that the reporter was required to attend alone. Sound familiar?posted by chris24 at 4:56 PM on June 9, 2017 [81 favorites]
In other words, the expert agency that regularly adjudicates disputes about whether particular statements by an employer rise to the level of coercion has held that when the president of an organization expresses his “hopes” in a private conversation with a worker, those comments will likely have a “chilling effect” on the employee.
Bloomberg Trump Can Accept Payments From Foreign Governments, U.S. Argues
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:05 PM on June 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
Donald Trump isn’t violating a U.S. Constitution provision that bars federal officials from accepting payments and gifts from foreign governments without congressional approval, Justice Department lawyers argued.Hmmmmm. The problem with that argument is you would have to prove that each transaction is fair-market commercial transaction. In the case of Mar-A-Lago, for example, he doubled the yearly fees when he won the election because the lure of hobnobbing with the President became worth more money. Is that fair? What about the charging of foreign government officials for holding parties in his hotel-- surely the court can see that the governments wanting to curry favor with Trump would use the room rental as a way of getting on his good side. How can he separate out the value he has as POTUS as the value he can offer as a business owner?
The foreign emoluments clause doesn’t apply to fair-market commercial transactions, such as hotel bills, golf club fees, licensing payments and office rent, the government argued in a brief asking a judge to throw out a lawsuit brought by a watchdog group, which claims Trump’s business dealings violate the Constitution. If accepted by the court, the argument would eliminate a major legal obstacle blocking Trump’s businesses from keeping money from foreign officials and companies owned by foreign governments.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:05 PM on June 9, 2017 [25 favorites]
Interesting. It really sounds like the complacent have woken from their slumbers and become interested in politics now that the country is going to hell in a Trump basket.
The tree ofliberty liberalism must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants poor and sick people. it is it’s natural manure.
posted by Talez at 5:05 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
The tree of
posted by Talez at 5:05 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Personally, I think you could make a reasonable argument that what he said about Comey's testimony belongs within the "outer perimeter" of the responsibilities of the office.
I think that this makes sense, and that, beyond the general principle of separation of powers, there are good public policy reasons for wanting to keep that outer perimeter a broad one in regards speech. Generally speaking, US presidents are not going to significantly abuse the protections of the office in the way it seems likely that Trump is, and, there being such significant executive power invested in the office, the practical consequences of hampering the ability of the executive to express itself freely are potentially very serious.
posted by howfar at 5:05 PM on June 9, 2017
I think that this makes sense, and that, beyond the general principle of separation of powers, there are good public policy reasons for wanting to keep that outer perimeter a broad one in regards speech. Generally speaking, US presidents are not going to significantly abuse the protections of the office in the way it seems likely that Trump is, and, there being such significant executive power invested in the office, the practical consequences of hampering the ability of the executive to express itself freely are potentially very serious.
posted by howfar at 5:05 PM on June 9, 2017
APNewsBreak: Gianforte to plead guilty to assault charge
Surprising. I don't want to start having hope or anything, but I'm glad he's doing the right thing.
posted by bongo_x at 5:11 PM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
Surprising. I don't want to start having hope or anything, but I'm glad he's doing the right thing.
posted by bongo_x at 5:11 PM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
They're fucking with DACA too. Politico: ‘If We Are Deported, Who Benefits?’
Until a few weeks ago, I was working as a paralegal at an immigration law firm in a suburb of Atlanta. I was saving money for law school and hoped to practice as an immigration attorney. Then, my world came crashing down: I was told that the U.S. government revoked my status as a recipient of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA), an Obama-era policy that gives work and study permits to undocumented young people who arrived in the U.S. as children. Now I can’t work or drive and I’m afraid to leave the house, because without DACA, I have no legal permission to be here.posted by zachlipton at 5:12 PM on June 9, 2017 [38 favorites]
What happened to me could happen to any one of the 750,000 young people whose entire lives depend on this lifeline the U.S. government extended us through the DACA program.
Surprising. I don't want to start having hope or anything, but I'm glad he's doing the right thing.
It's the obvious decision to make given how the prosecution has him dead to rights. At that point, pleading guilty is the way to get the minimum punishment. There's no exercise of conscience or ethics here.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
It's the obvious decision to make given how the prosecution has him dead to rights. At that point, pleading guilty is the way to get the minimum punishment. There's no exercise of conscience or ethics here.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:14 PM on June 9, 2017 [17 favorites]
Gianforte probably thinks that by putting on an orange jumper and picking up garbage from the side of the interstate for a few saturdays he can increase his polls
He's probably not wrong
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:23 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's probably not wrong
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:23 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
And it's worth noting that there will be no meaningful punishment. The maximum fine for misdemeanor assault is an amount so small that it'll be less than a rounding error at the end of the year for him, and the court certainly isn't going to make him serve any time. As a Republican, the benefit he gets out of being the person that everyone knows is willing to assault a journalist is far greater than the consequences for doing so. I wonder how long it will be until the next Republican does this math and realizes that assaulting a journalist will be all upside for him as well.
Also, criminal fines really need to be based in some way on a percentage of net worth or something. Flat fines are an undue hardship on the poor and no punishment at all to the rich.
posted by IAmUnaware at 5:25 PM on June 9, 2017 [35 favorites]
Also, criminal fines really need to be based in some way on a percentage of net worth or something. Flat fines are an undue hardship on the poor and no punishment at all to the rich.
posted by IAmUnaware at 5:25 PM on June 9, 2017 [35 favorites]
Now I'm beginning to wonder if he does routinely record people but never produces the tapes because he knows it won't corroborate him.
Some states are one-party-permission for recordings; some are not. (California requires that both parties agree to be recorded.) Telling someone from my state that you secretly recorded them is admitting to a crime.
Of course he doesn't regularly record people. He doesn't have the tech skills. He knows that it's possible, so he uses it as a threat. But he has no idea what it takes to set that up on a phone (install app; pay monthly fee if you're using it more than a tiny amount) nor manage the resulting files.
Sure, he could have someone set that up for him... but just operating it requires turning it on every time you start the conversation. Anyone think he's capable of regularly managing extra settings on the phone without bungling them or alerting the other person that he's doing something?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Some states are one-party-permission for recordings; some are not. (California requires that both parties agree to be recorded.) Telling someone from my state that you secretly recorded them is admitting to a crime.
Of course he doesn't regularly record people. He doesn't have the tech skills. He knows that it's possible, so he uses it as a threat. But he has no idea what it takes to set that up on a phone (install app; pay monthly fee if you're using it more than a tiny amount) nor manage the resulting files.
Sure, he could have someone set that up for him... but just operating it requires turning it on every time you start the conversation. Anyone think he's capable of regularly managing extra settings on the phone without bungling them or alerting the other person that he's doing something?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
All In with Chris Hayes, just now played a another bit of today's press conference. Not the "testify under oath/100%" money quote but a question asked by one of the Romanian journalists about the Rich-Investor visa (forget the actual name). She wanted to know if it had been discussed. Trump said no and the Romanian president said yes.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:32 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:32 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Some states are one-party-permission for recordings
Washington DC is, interestingly, one of those single-party consent states.
Which will be hilarious if it turns out the Comey recorded all his conversations with Trump. He was already freaked out enough about his interactions to start documenting them in memos. Having access to a recording would certainly make it easier to accurately describe the events in question, and as Director of the FBI, he would certainly have access to appropriate technology without much hassle. (If any. He probably had a gimmick toy "spy recorder" pen in his desk drawer.)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:36 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Washington DC is, interestingly, one of those single-party consent states.
Which will be hilarious if it turns out the Comey recorded all his conversations with Trump. He was already freaked out enough about his interactions to start documenting them in memos. Having access to a recording would certainly make it easier to accurately describe the events in question, and as Director of the FBI, he would certainly have access to appropriate technology without much hassle. (If any. He probably had a gimmick toy "spy recorder" pen in his desk drawer.)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:36 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not trying to get anyone's hope up, but I was in the periphery of a similar situation years ago in which a senior federal exec coerced employees to cover up wrong doings. In that case the Merit Systems Protection Board was notified and there was a full investigation. Those who were fired in retaliation were rehired with protections and back pay. The entire chain of command, civilian and active military, were fired. Military were retired and civilians fired without retirement benefits and excluded from federal service for life.
I'm only bringing this up to illustrate what others have mentioned about the culture of Federal Civil Service. For the most part they are apolitical. For the most part they are here to serve in honest and honorable ways.
Today, I think that it's very clear that the entire republican party is acting as a traitorous agency against the greater good of the U.S. I think our long term civil servants are realizing this and will act accordingly.
posted by snsranch at 5:36 PM on June 9, 2017 [42 favorites]
I'm only bringing this up to illustrate what others have mentioned about the culture of Federal Civil Service. For the most part they are apolitical. For the most part they are here to serve in honest and honorable ways.
Today, I think that it's very clear that the entire republican party is acting as a traitorous agency against the greater good of the U.S. I think our long term civil servants are realizing this and will act accordingly.
posted by snsranch at 5:36 PM on June 9, 2017 [42 favorites]
The foreign emoluments clause doesn’t apply to fair-market commercial transactions, such as hotel bills, golf club fees, licensing payments and office rent,
Except with real estate you have a vacancy factor, i.e. a percentage of time a hotel room isn't booked or an office leased. So even at fair market value it's extremely likely that the rush to please/influence/corrupt the president by spending money at his properties results in income he wouldn't have had otherwise because the fucking room/office would be empty.
posted by chris24 at 5:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Except with real estate you have a vacancy factor, i.e. a percentage of time a hotel room isn't booked or an office leased. So even at fair market value it's extremely likely that the rush to please/influence/corrupt the president by spending money at his properties results in income he wouldn't have had otherwise because the fucking room/office would be empty.
posted by chris24 at 5:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also, criminal fines really need to be based in some way on a percentage of net worth or something. Flat fines are an undue hardship on the poor and no punishment at all to the rich.
You say that as if it's by accident.
posted by shponglespore at 5:40 PM on June 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
You say that as if it's by accident.
posted by shponglespore at 5:40 PM on June 9, 2017 [37 favorites]
I wanted to comment on that "U.S. in Talks With Moscow on Syria Safe Zone" link from upthread...
Jennifer Williams at Vox a month ago...
Russia has a plan for winding down Syria's war. Too bad both sides want to keep fighting.
Jennifer Williams at Vox a month ago...
Russia has a plan for winding down Syria's war. Too bad both sides want to keep fighting.
First, the entire reason the Syrian opposition is involved in the war in the first place is to fight and topple the Assad regime. That’s who the opposition is, you know, opposing. And one of the most effective fighting forces among the opposition groups is the al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front — one of the groups the Russian proposal explicitly calls on rebel groups to fight as part of the deal.posted by OnceUponATime at 5:56 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
The second big question is whether, even if they were to agree to sign on to the Russian proposal, the opposition groups would really be safe from bombing by pro-Assad forces.
Damascus says it supports the Russian plan, according to the Syrian state news agency SANA, but it hasn’t yet signed on to the proposal. And while an early draft of the proposal included language banning Assad’s air force from operating inside the deescalation zones, that language was stripped from later drafts. It was removed, people involved told the New York Times, because of Syrian government objections.
538s approval rating aggregator has Trump hitting a new all time high for disapproval today, and all time low for approval! Let's hope the trend continues.
His approval is 36% so any further decrease indicates erosion of his base.
posted by Justinian at 6:01 PM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
His approval is 36% so any further decrease indicates erosion of his base.
posted by Justinian at 6:01 PM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
Now look at Trump. Rich boy who lies and throws the beloved (in the Bureau) earnest FBI Director under the bus to cover his own treasonous ass, impugning the Director's honesty along the way.
Can you fucking imagine how pissed they are?
6'8" 220 lbs
Comey the Defiant has a Posse.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:11 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Can you fucking imagine how pissed they are?
6'8" 220 lbs
Comey the Defiant has a Posse.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:11 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Quinnipiac, June 8: Merkel Challenges Trump As Leader Of Free World, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Voters Oppose GOP Health Care Bill Almost 4-1
Last week on MSNBC, WaPo's Karen Tumulty said, "Trump may have stopped the first woman from being president but he made another the leader of the free world."
posted by Room 641-A at 6:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [53 favorites]
Last week on MSNBC, WaPo's Karen Tumulty said, "Trump may have stopped the first woman from being president but he made another the leader of the free world."
posted by Room 641-A at 6:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [53 favorites]
Trump has a history of this.
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:23 PM on June 9, 2017
...Trump doesn't need to drill holes and run cables himself, that's what servile minions are for.
Sources have come forward to claim Trump recorded his interactions before taking office, with at least three former employees telling The Wall Street Journal they saw the tycoon use a device to tape conversations at Trump Tower in New York City. That article follows a June 2016 report from BuzzFeed featuring four ex-workers claiming Trump listened in on calls at his Florida resort, Mar-a-Lago, in the mid-2000s.
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:23 PM on June 9, 2017
Does anyone think the "very short timeframe" might be just enough time for them to fabricate a recording?
posted by jferg at 6:28 PM on June 9, 2017
posted by jferg at 6:28 PM on June 9, 2017
I think the fact that Trump didn't apologize or feel guilt ever during the election campaign (except to Carly Fiorina) suggests that Trump voters hate feeling guilty (particularly about white privilege) and love a guy who doesn't feel guilt at all.
Trump ran on a campaign of expressing contempt towards the Other, which was pitch-perfect for the party of the Southern Strategy.
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump ran on a campaign of expressing contempt towards the Other, which was pitch-perfect for the party of the Southern Strategy.
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nixon aides high and low were facing terms in jail: Charles Colson, for obstruction of justice; Jeb Magruder, for obstruction of justice and conspiracy to intercept wire communications unlawfully; John Mitchell, former Attorney General, for conspiracy to obstruct and perjury; Appointments Secretary Dwight Chapin, for lying to the grand jury; John Dean, for conspiracy to obstruct justice; Haldeman and Ehrlichman, for conspiracy to obstruct and perjury. By the end, 14 associates would serve time behind bars.
Good times, man. Good times.
posted by petebest at 6:57 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
I don't think this got posted earlier... when Karl Rove is willing to go on record about what a dipshit you are... (WSJ via The Hill)
Karl Rove, a former senior adviser to President George W. Bush, slammed President Trump on Wednesday, saying that the real estate mogul "lacks the focus or self-discipline to do the basic work required of a president."
"His chronic impulsiveness is apparently unstoppable and clearly self-defeating," Rove wrote in an op-ed for The Wall Street Journal. "Mr. Trump may have mastered the modes of communication, but not the substance, thereby sabotaging his own agenda."
(In true Rove-ian slimeball fashion though, the critique is less "you're a terrible person who should feel bad about yourself" and more "you're terrible about how to get away with the terrible shit you want to do")
posted by mostly vowels at 7:12 PM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
Karl Rove, a former senior adviser to President George W. Bush, slammed President Trump on Wednesday, saying that the real estate mogul "lacks the focus or self-discipline to do the basic work required of a president."
"His chronic impulsiveness is apparently unstoppable and clearly self-defeating," Rove wrote in an op-ed for The Wall Street Journal. "Mr. Trump may have mastered the modes of communication, but not the substance, thereby sabotaging his own agenda."
(In true Rove-ian slimeball fashion though, the critique is less "you're a terrible person who should feel bad about yourself" and more "you're terrible about how to get away with the terrible shit you want to do")
posted by mostly vowels at 7:12 PM on June 9, 2017 [23 favorites]
It is very curious to me, as many Republican Senators and Reps who supposedly have law degrees, support to the hilt the "I hope" line, disregarding the entire corpus of evidence and the admission of the President...
Now. I am not a lawyer. I am ashamed to admit I hang out on Reddit for DIY and GifRecipes and RarePuppers and PartyParrot... but.
Random Reddit dude came up with THIS.
A whole hell of a lot of GOP lawmakers are about to be disbarred... if there was any justice in this world, which there is not.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:16 PM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Now. I am not a lawyer. I am ashamed to admit I hang out on Reddit for DIY and GifRecipes and RarePuppers and PartyParrot... but.
Random Reddit dude came up with THIS.
A whole hell of a lot of GOP lawmakers are about to be disbarred... if there was any justice in this world, which there is not.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:16 PM on June 9, 2017 [10 favorites]
Ambassador from Qatar to the United States, via Twitter: We appeal to the US administration to rely on their own sources and not on countries with political agendas.
Yeah. So that happened. And we're in an environment where nobody could blame him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [69 favorites]
Yeah. So that happened. And we're in an environment where nobody could blame him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:38 PM on June 9, 2017 [69 favorites]
Random Reddit dude came up with THIS.
F$>#ing Reddit, man, how do they work? I read much of the . . . thread? . . . about the "I hope" cases, but it was hard and then I rebooted a little in my browser, so if it's more than there are 3 circuit cases where "I hope"= obstruction, what is it?
Actually the pro-Trump ppl skeeved me out. *click* Nope.
posted by petebest at 7:56 PM on June 9, 2017
F$>#ing Reddit, man, how do they work? I read much of the . . . thread? . . . about the "I hope" cases, but it was hard and then I rebooted a little in my browser, so if it's more than there are 3 circuit cases where "I hope"= obstruction, what is it?
Actually the pro-Trump ppl skeeved me out. *click* Nope.
posted by petebest at 7:56 PM on June 9, 2017
Ryan denies GOP would try to impeach Dem accused of same actions as Trump
Holy fucking shit. The representative from the state of delusion will take his seat.
posted by Talez at 8:09 PM on June 9, 2017 [59 favorites]
Holy fucking shit. The representative from the state of delusion will take his seat.
posted by Talez at 8:09 PM on June 9, 2017 [59 favorites]
Brownback and his promised tax cuts were expected to spur enough economic growth to keep the government well funded, but when that economic boom never materialized, state lawmakers faced perennial deficits and had to implement spending reductions to close the gap. And when they did, some lawmakers found that while promising to cut spending plays well during a campaign, the subsequent loss of public services often proves far more unpopular.
“Kansas seems to be ahead of the curve,” said Rep. Melissa Rooker, a Republican who represents a suburb of Kansas City. “If you look at the national political scene right now, I think it seems to me we’re about ready for a course correction.”
That conclusion will be tested in the upcoming gubernatorial Republican primary, when representatives of the party’s more moderate and more conservative wings will square off to replace Brownback when his term expires.
Republicans are predicting the beginning of the end of the tea party in Kansas
Here's a little optimism about Kansas and the state GOP returning to some form of sanity. I'm hoping this is the future for the post-Trump national GOP as well.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:18 PM on June 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
“Kansas seems to be ahead of the curve,” said Rep. Melissa Rooker, a Republican who represents a suburb of Kansas City. “If you look at the national political scene right now, I think it seems to me we’re about ready for a course correction.”
That conclusion will be tested in the upcoming gubernatorial Republican primary, when representatives of the party’s more moderate and more conservative wings will square off to replace Brownback when his term expires.
Republicans are predicting the beginning of the end of the tea party in Kansas
Here's a little optimism about Kansas and the state GOP returning to some form of sanity. I'm hoping this is the future for the post-Trump national GOP as well.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:18 PM on June 9, 2017 [19 favorites]
The DOJ's motion to dismiss Trump's emoluments lawsuit is quite a thing. 70 pages citing Washington, Madison, Jefferson, and a whole lot of stuff.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:22 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:22 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
In true Rove-ian slimeball fashion though, the critique is less "you're a terrible person who should feel bad about yourself" and more "you're terrible about how to get away with the terrible shit you want to do
You want impeachment? Then that's the argument you want to hear. No one on the Right cares if Trump is a piece of shit. They care if he's severely sabotaging their precious agenda.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:23 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
You want impeachment? Then that's the argument you want to hear. No one on the Right cares if Trump is a piece of shit. They care if he's severely sabotaging their precious agenda.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:23 PM on June 9, 2017 [7 favorites]
My housemate is from Egypt and he explains the Trump Qatar thing like this: Saudi Arabia and the Emirates were not happy with democracy in Egypt, fearing it would spread. So they quashed it as best they could. Tiny Qatar is the only other nearby democracy, and its democracy also makes them unhappy. As the housemate sees it, the bogus deal with Saudi Arabia (linked to way above) will probably result in signed contracts eventually as long as Trump follows through on his part of the bargain, which is to shit on Qatar. I don't know if any of his reasoning is sound but it makes sense in a twisted and Trumpian way. In other news, we can also blame lamestream TV for Trump's presidency, supposedly. Apologies if this was linked to earlier. (There's an OK Cupid question about how you spend your Friday nights. I have not answered honestly.)
posted by Bella Donna at 8:25 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 8:25 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ryan is as big a liar as Trump. Republicans were already talking about impeaching Clinton in the week before the election.
Because setting up a private email server that the Russians could have possibly hacked but actually did not is impeachable, but potentially obstructing an investigation into the campaign's actual involvement with Russia--let alone the actual Russia problem itself--who cares, nothing to see here, he's just a naive young man, why are we wasting our time.
posted by gatorae at 8:26 PM on June 9, 2017 [89 favorites]
Because setting up a private email server that the Russians could have possibly hacked but actually did not is impeachable, but potentially obstructing an investigation into the campaign's actual involvement with Russia--let alone the actual Russia problem itself--who cares, nothing to see here, he's just a naive young man, why are we wasting our time.
posted by gatorae at 8:26 PM on June 9, 2017 [89 favorites]
the most naive young man, the best naive young man, believe me, everyone's saying so
posted by riverlife at 8:35 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by riverlife at 8:35 PM on June 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ryan is as big a liar as Trump.
The wikipedia page on the efforts to impeach Barack Obama requires scrolling.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:39 PM on June 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
The wikipedia page on the efforts to impeach Barack Obama requires scrolling.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:39 PM on June 9, 2017 [39 favorites]
Ever since 1993, being a Democratic President is by itself grounds for impeachment; didn't you know?
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:45 PM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:45 PM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
No, I think they'd impeach any Democrat regardless of race. Clinton was a white Southerner and they impeached him!
posted by Justinian at 8:57 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 8:57 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
To be fair, the House is supposed to be antoganistic toward the Executive. It was an expected part of the design. (Here's where you remind me that political parties weren't. ) The Senate would temper those political passions, and judges would judge. The "new" wrinkle of parties mean we have to do what we have to do to elect a D majority in one or the other House of congress in 2018. That's not news to anyone here either, but it's worthwhile to remember the genius of our system, as we also bemoan its flaws.
posted by notyou at 9:05 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by notyou at 9:05 PM on June 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Founders lack of foresight with regard to parties just goes to show how fallible they were for all their abilities. It's such an emergent part of our electoral system.
posted by Justinian at 9:13 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 9:13 PM on June 9, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh jesus. Chuck Grassley. Of all people, racist blowhard dickbag Chuck Grassley can see which way the wind is blowing.
Russell Berman, The Atlantic: The Senate Republican Calling 'Nonsense' on President Trump
Russell Berman, The Atlantic: The Senate Republican Calling 'Nonsense' on President Trump
“Oversight brings transparency, and transparency brings accountability. And, the opposite is true. Shutting down oversight requests doesn’t drain the swamp, Mr. President. It floods the swamp.”posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:16 PM on June 9, 2017 [33 favorites]
Grassley’s decision to challenge the Trump administration on congressional oversight is significant not just because he is a Republican, but because as a committee chairmen he would not be affected by the restrictive policy. As he noted in his letter, limiting oversight demands to committee chairmen could shut out many Republicans, although they would have an easier time running their requests through their more senior colleagues. “It obstructs what ought to be the natural flow of information between agencies and the committees, which frustrates the Constitutional function of legislating,” Grassley wrote.
Grassley has had his little moments of speaking up so far - on some things, not enough, not nearly enough - but of course it comes in the weirdest fucking way possible sometimes.
And I do wonder if whatever this was has still got him spooked.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:36 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
And I do wonder if whatever this was has still got him spooked.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:36 PM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]
Kamala Harris (for Senate) is sending out free "Courage Not Courtesy" stickers. There's an ActBlue donation option but nothing is required.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:47 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 9:47 PM on June 9, 2017 [14 favorites]
Do you think if we start telling the anti-science, religious-fundamentalist wing of the Republican party that when God blocks out the sun with the moon, over the US and only the US, it's a sign he's enraged at the country's leadership and wants us to hold the leader to account for his crimes, it would work?
Because, um, God's gonna do that in August and I bet a lot of these people don't know how eclipses work.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:39 PM on June 9, 2017 [73 favorites]
Because, um, God's gonna do that in August and I bet a lot of these people don't know how eclipses work.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:39 PM on June 9, 2017 [73 favorites]
I think Grassley has been getting a lot of pushback on his statement that his constituents don't care about Russian interference, and he's trying to make some sort of gesture toward not being a spineless, cowardly traitor, while continuing to be just as spineless and cowardly as ever. It's all talk. He's completely sold his soul, if he ever had one.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:50 PM on June 9, 2017
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:50 PM on June 9, 2017
Do you think if we start telling the anti-science, religious-fundamentalist wing of the Republican party that when God blocks out the sun with the moon, over the US and only the US, it's a sign he's enraged at the country's leadership and wants us to hold the leader to account for his crimes, it would work?
Not really. The thing is, the religious fundamentalist nutjobs are perfectly happy to accept the parts of the Bible that work for them and ignore the parts that don't. Science is no different. If something scientific undermines their hold over people (or their ability to make money), it's bad and sinful and should be stopped at every turn. But if it doesn't undermine them? Or helps them? They're cool with it.
They're totally cool with beaming their completely selective and twisted readings of scripture all over the place via satellite while asking for donations they fully intend to misuse and abuse in ways that would send Jesus knocking over their tables. And the Republicans in Congress are totally cool with that, too, because they do the same shit.
So an eclipse is only supernatural if it helps their cause. If not, then it's just science, but not that icky ungodly science that says homosexuals are actually people.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:09 PM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
Not really. The thing is, the religious fundamentalist nutjobs are perfectly happy to accept the parts of the Bible that work for them and ignore the parts that don't. Science is no different. If something scientific undermines their hold over people (or their ability to make money), it's bad and sinful and should be stopped at every turn. But if it doesn't undermine them? Or helps them? They're cool with it.
They're totally cool with beaming their completely selective and twisted readings of scripture all over the place via satellite while asking for donations they fully intend to misuse and abuse in ways that would send Jesus knocking over their tables. And the Republicans in Congress are totally cool with that, too, because they do the same shit.
So an eclipse is only supernatural if it helps their cause. If not, then it's just science, but not that icky ungodly science that says homosexuals are actually people.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:09 PM on June 9, 2017 [24 favorites]
I think Grassley has been getting a lot of pushback on his statement that his constituents don't care about Russian interference, and he's trying to make some sort of gesture toward not being a spineless, cowardly traitor, while continuing to be just as spineless and cowardly as ever. It's all talk. He's completely sold his soul, if he ever had one.
He's also kind of wrapped up in his own mythology of being the Big Important Senator Who Demands Answers, Damn It, but of course he never really makes moves that would be controversial with his base to build that image.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
He's also kind of wrapped up in his own mythology of being the Big Important Senator Who Demands Answers, Damn It, but of course he never really makes moves that would be controversial with his base to build that image.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:15 PM on June 9, 2017 [3 favorites]
Somebody with more knowledge of movies and video editing than I should really make a supercut of scenes where people are asked to leave the room because something nefarious is about to go down. I bet there will be a disproportionate number of mob movies represented.
posted by Soliloquy at 11:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Soliloquy at 11:28 PM on June 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
scenes where people are asked to leave the room because something nefarious is about to go down
something something Downfall parody....
posted by Rumple at 11:34 PM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
something something Downfall parody....
posted by Rumple at 11:34 PM on June 9, 2017 [18 favorites]
"When Barack Obama was president, a Post-ABC poll found that only 22 percent of Republicans supported missile strikes against Syria in response to Bashar al-Assad using chemical weapons against civilians. After Trump did it, 86 percent of Republicans supported strikes for the exact same reason."That's from that "What would it take for the Republican base to stop trusting Donald Trump?" piece already linked. I just was struck by this observation and wanted to pull it out to highlight it.
posted by glonous keming at 1:42 AM on June 10, 2017 [52 favorites]
here in the Philly area, there are signs that read "hate has no home here" here and there. Maybe this is a nationwide thing, I don't know.
Now there's a competing sign for people who I guess feel insulted by the implication that they are haters, a sign that reads this is a home with love for God and the country and the constitution.
Which is funny because a paraphrase of that dialogue would be:
Hating people is wrong.
We hate people, but it's okay because we revere two abstract things and one thing we may or may not understand I mean constitutional law is hard.
posted by angrycat at 2:20 AM on June 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
Now there's a competing sign for people who I guess feel insulted by the implication that they are haters, a sign that reads this is a home with love for God and the country and the constitution.
Which is funny because a paraphrase of that dialogue would be:
Hating people is wrong.
We hate people, but it's okay because we revere two abstract things and one thing we may or may not understand I mean constitutional law is hard.
posted by angrycat at 2:20 AM on June 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
If Grassley is really offended, he can override the policy of not responding to Democratic (minority) leaders on committees by just passing on whatever they request. I'm not predicting that, but it would put the administration in a very awkward position re: obstruction of justice.
posted by msalt at 2:25 AM on June 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by msalt at 2:25 AM on June 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
a sign that reads this is a home with love for God and the country and the constitution.
With love for people being conspicuously excluded...
posted by sour cream at 3:41 AM on June 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
With love for people being conspicuously excluded...
posted by sour cream at 3:41 AM on June 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
it's an interesting insight into fascism, though. These people don't hate, they just love their country so much, they have to do difficult things. I mean from their point of view.
posted by angrycat at 3:57 AM on June 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 3:57 AM on June 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
a sign that reads this is a home with love for God and the country and the constitution.
With love for people being conspicuously excluded...
Republicans have the self-awareness and morality of gnats. I check my evangelical "Christian" mom's Twitter and she'll have posted something about living life with the love of Jesus right next to retweets of Coulter saying libtards, Pamela Geller calling Muslims savages, and Joe Walsh mocking trans people.
posted by chris24 at 4:03 AM on June 10, 2017 [43 favorites]
With love for people being conspicuously excluded...
Republicans have the self-awareness and morality of gnats. I check my evangelical "Christian" mom's Twitter and she'll have posted something about living life with the love of Jesus right next to retweets of Coulter saying libtards, Pamela Geller calling Muslims savages, and Joe Walsh mocking trans people.
posted by chris24 at 4:03 AM on June 10, 2017 [43 favorites]
These people don't hate, they just love their country so much, they have to do difficult things. I mean from their point of view.
They don't seem to find them that difficult.
posted by Etrigan at 4:04 AM on June 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
They don't seem to find them that difficult.
posted by Etrigan at 4:04 AM on June 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Do you think if we start telling the anti-science, religious-fundamentalist wing of the Republican party that when God blocks out the sun with the moon, over the US and only the US, it's a sign he's enraged at the country's leadership and wants us to hold the leader to account for his crimes, it would work?
You'd have better luck telling them that since the sun has turned black, maybe it was actually born in Kenya and therefore disqualified from sunhood.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:29 AM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
You'd have better luck telling them that since the sun has turned black, maybe it was actually born in Kenya and therefore disqualified from sunhood.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:29 AM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yep. God only uses natural phenomena to show his displeasure with gay rights, abortion, and our taking him out of public schools.
posted by Rykey at 4:51 AM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 4:51 AM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
You'd have better luck telling them that since the sun has turned black, maybe it was actually born in Kenya and therefore disqualified from sunhood.
Or that it lacks the stamina. Sun is a 365 job.
posted by ian1977 at 5:19 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Or that it lacks the stamina. Sun is a 365 job.
posted by ian1977 at 5:19 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
you fools - it's a liberal myth that the sun has anything to do with global warming
posted by pyramid termite at 5:24 AM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 5:24 AM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
you fools - it's a liberal myth that the sun has anything to do with global warming
Exactly. It's trees. Sneaky bastiges.
posted by petebest at 5:28 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Exactly. It's trees. Sneaky bastiges.
posted by petebest at 5:28 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
March 29, 2016, Where is Trump's evangelical base? Not in church
One of the most surprising parts of the 2016 election has been evangelical Christian support for Donald Trump. In the 20 states where primary or caucus exit polls have been conducted so far, Trump has won an average of 36 percent of the vote from white “born-again or evangelical Christians,” good for a plurality in 12 states and only slightly lower than his support (38 percent) among all other Republican voters. Many in the evangelical community have wondered how their religious brethren could possibly back a twice-divorced candidate whose commitment to moral and cultural conservatism appears shaky at best. . . .
Trump does best among evangelicals with one key trait: They don’t really go to church. In short, the evangelicals supporting Trump are not the same evangelicals who have traditionally comprised the Christian Right and supported cultural warriors such as Rick Santorum and Ted Cruz.
Tl;dr - Racists love Jeezus. The article makes the case that born-again hypocritical racists who don't go to church support Trump probably because of 'economic anxiety'. Interestingly, being a racist, sexist, treason-loving shithead was not explored as an option. At least, it wasn't in 2016.
posted by petebest at 5:42 AM on June 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
One of the most surprising parts of the 2016 election has been evangelical Christian support for Donald Trump. In the 20 states where primary or caucus exit polls have been conducted so far, Trump has won an average of 36 percent of the vote from white “born-again or evangelical Christians,” good for a plurality in 12 states and only slightly lower than his support (38 percent) among all other Republican voters. Many in the evangelical community have wondered how their religious brethren could possibly back a twice-divorced candidate whose commitment to moral and cultural conservatism appears shaky at best. . . .
Trump does best among evangelicals with one key trait: They don’t really go to church. In short, the evangelicals supporting Trump are not the same evangelicals who have traditionally comprised the Christian Right and supported cultural warriors such as Rick Santorum and Ted Cruz.
Tl;dr - Racists love Jeezus. The article makes the case that born-again hypocritical racists who don't go to church support Trump probably because of 'economic anxiety'. Interestingly, being a racist, sexist, treason-loving shithead was not explored as an option. At least, it wasn't in 2016.
posted by petebest at 5:42 AM on June 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
The thing is, the religious fundamentalist nutjobs are perfectly happy to accept the parts of the Bible that work for them and ignore the parts that don't.
Randy: They called me crazy for building this ark.
Randy's Partner: You ARE crazy. You filled it with same sex animal couples.
Randy: Hey, there are parts of the Bible I like and parts I don't like.
posted by Servo5678 at 5:56 AM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Randy: They called me crazy for building this ark.
Randy's Partner: You ARE crazy. You filled it with same sex animal couples.
Randy: Hey, there are parts of the Bible I like and parts I don't like.
posted by Servo5678 at 5:56 AM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Do you think if we start telling the anti-science, religious-fundamentalist wing of the Republican party that when God blocks out the sun with the moon, over the US and only the US, it's a sign he's enraged at the country's leadership and wants us to hold the leader to account for his crimes, it would work?
I have a rant! No c'mon, we all do. We all know it doesn't work like this, but WHY?
Well, if you'll allow me for this comment...
So here I am in China trying to get money to an employee. I'm RMB-tapped, for the moment, and I have an awesome American bank card tied to a brokerage account that allows ATM-fee free withdrawals anywhere in the world! So I should be able to get my dollars out, right? Well, not so fast, gotta get money in that checking account. To do that I have to transfer out of another account, because the money in the affiliated brokerage has withdrawal fees, and takes time. To transfer from another account takes 3-5 business days, thank you ACH. To wire to China, takes time...US has to verify no money laundering, China has to verify no undocumented currency exchanges...so I had to pay $10 and wait two days and convince some friends to loan me some cash to get $600 to pay a subcontractor so she could pay her credit card bill without interest.
Why.
Not why verify cross-border transactions, ok, I get it. National sovereignty, ok. Why ACH when the rest of the world, including Africa, can do interbank transfers in seconds, with no fees?
Or, Paris Accords. Geneva Accords. Global income taxation (I'm self-employed abroad of course I complain but). No universal healthcare. No no no we tear that down. We strengthen those rough edges. Other countries put up with it because of our guns. China has fairly basic universal healthcare. RUSSIA has, on paper, universal healthcare, though it doesn't exactly work like that, but lip service at least.
Who in the F++K are we? Everything that is special about the US, on the face of it, is pretty stupid. In practice, ok, maybe we actually do product the occasional good outcome for one party or another, but at the level of just sheer ideology and idiosyncrasy? More things suck about us than don't. We're armed bandits who just shat on our last redeeming qualities by electing Trump, and now look. Qatar, we're just gonna let 'em dangle.
This is who we are. Only our people can change this, but this is who we are. To live as an American is to live on hard mode. I can't even transfer myself $600 fricken dollars on the weekend I mean WTF and I can do it realtime in China bank-to-bank no intermediary services. So can literally everyone else in the world, and I mean literally, and I'm just asking for in-country, same-currency real-time transfer, so I can withdraw it from the account. Only in America.
And so what I'm getting is that we're special. We tell ourselves we're special, and we become...special. That's why doing the religious thing doesn't work. If you try to preach a rational outcome with irrational reasoning, it doesn't work. Don't. If you preach crazy, you GET crazy.
posted by saysthis at 5:57 AM on June 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
I have a rant! No c'mon, we all do. We all know it doesn't work like this, but WHY?
Well, if you'll allow me for this comment...
So here I am in China trying to get money to an employee. I'm RMB-tapped, for the moment, and I have an awesome American bank card tied to a brokerage account that allows ATM-fee free withdrawals anywhere in the world! So I should be able to get my dollars out, right? Well, not so fast, gotta get money in that checking account. To do that I have to transfer out of another account, because the money in the affiliated brokerage has withdrawal fees, and takes time. To transfer from another account takes 3-5 business days, thank you ACH. To wire to China, takes time...US has to verify no money laundering, China has to verify no undocumented currency exchanges...so I had to pay $10 and wait two days and convince some friends to loan me some cash to get $600 to pay a subcontractor so she could pay her credit card bill without interest.
Why.
Not why verify cross-border transactions, ok, I get it. National sovereignty, ok. Why ACH when the rest of the world, including Africa, can do interbank transfers in seconds, with no fees?
Or, Paris Accords. Geneva Accords. Global income taxation (I'm self-employed abroad of course I complain but). No universal healthcare. No no no we tear that down. We strengthen those rough edges. Other countries put up with it because of our guns. China has fairly basic universal healthcare. RUSSIA has, on paper, universal healthcare, though it doesn't exactly work like that, but lip service at least.
Who in the F++K are we? Everything that is special about the US, on the face of it, is pretty stupid. In practice, ok, maybe we actually do product the occasional good outcome for one party or another, but at the level of just sheer ideology and idiosyncrasy? More things suck about us than don't. We're armed bandits who just shat on our last redeeming qualities by electing Trump, and now look. Qatar, we're just gonna let 'em dangle.
This is who we are. Only our people can change this, but this is who we are. To live as an American is to live on hard mode. I can't even transfer myself $600 fricken dollars on the weekend I mean WTF and I can do it realtime in China bank-to-bank no intermediary services. So can literally everyone else in the world, and I mean literally, and I'm just asking for in-country, same-currency real-time transfer, so I can withdraw it from the account. Only in America.
And so what I'm getting is that we're special. We tell ourselves we're special, and we become...special. That's why doing the religious thing doesn't work. If you try to preach a rational outcome with irrational reasoning, it doesn't work. Don't. If you preach crazy, you GET crazy.
posted by saysthis at 5:57 AM on June 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
Is It Time For The US to Rein In The Presidency? (Julian Zelizer and Morton Keller, The Atlantic)
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:02 AM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:02 AM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is It Time For The US to Rein In The Presidency?
This gets to the party problem again. Republicans want a white ethnofacist dictatorship embodied in a cheeto-flavored hairpiece. Not one of them is opposed to ending democracy, abandoning their own powers, and spending the rest of time as teuerste Gesangsverein Vereinigte Staaten. It's what they're actively working for by abandoning all pretense at functioning as an independent branch. For Democrats to "rein in" the executive, they would have to both retake power, and unilaterally disarm any chance of a Democratic executive undoing 4-8+ years of treasonous rule by a Republican dictator. Republicans will rein in nothing while their orange man is in office, and in practice we do not currently have either a functioning constitution or the rule of law until they are defeated, and assuming they are, rolling back the powers of the next Democratic President only cements everything they've destroyed as unrecoverable.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:22 AM on June 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
This gets to the party problem again. Republicans want a white ethnofacist dictatorship embodied in a cheeto-flavored hairpiece. Not one of them is opposed to ending democracy, abandoning their own powers, and spending the rest of time as teuerste Gesangsverein Vereinigte Staaten. It's what they're actively working for by abandoning all pretense at functioning as an independent branch. For Democrats to "rein in" the executive, they would have to both retake power, and unilaterally disarm any chance of a Democratic executive undoing 4-8+ years of treasonous rule by a Republican dictator. Republicans will rein in nothing while their orange man is in office, and in practice we do not currently have either a functioning constitution or the rule of law until they are defeated, and assuming they are, rolling back the powers of the next Democratic President only cements everything they've destroyed as unrecoverable.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:22 AM on June 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
To live as an American is to live on hard mode.
........
posted by Talez at 6:25 AM on June 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
........
posted by Talez at 6:25 AM on June 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
FWIW, lots of banks in the US support easy transfer of funds between banks. Brokerages take a few business days to process transactions because there hasn't been demand for them to change it like there was for commercial banks. There is a lot of money laundering that goes through China so there is extra scrutiny on US-China transfers. Any system to better facilitate transfers of funds from US banks to Chinese banks would likely be slowed down by the same AML and OFAC regulatory requirements that delay wires. For this particular problem I think you should be blaming the money launderers rather than structural problems of the US.
posted by VTX at 6:26 AM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by VTX at 6:26 AM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, and I just remembered, I wanted to comment to let you know that another reason I couldn't have paid hookers to pee is that I don't carry cash. So, that's for sure why I didn't do it. Besides, the tapes barely show anything!
posted by petebest at 6:40 AM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by petebest at 6:40 AM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Donald Trump’s secret isn’t that he lies. It’s that he crowds out the truth.
Trump isn’t trying to win the argument. He’s trying to dominate it.
Trump isn’t trying to win the argument. He’s trying to dominate it.
Donald Trump understands, better than any politician I’ve ever seen, that the question isn’t whether you’re winning the argument — it’s whether you’re dominating and driving the coverage of the argument. And that is his strategy in responding to former FBI Director James Comey’s searing testimony. Trump means to take back control of the storyline. But he doesn’t intend to win the argument, or even offer a persuasive counterargument or narrative of events. Instead, his strategy is to crowd out coverage of Comey’s arguments and force the media to cover bullshit.posted by scalefree at 6:52 AM on June 10, 2017 [41 favorites]
Too true. They never got over Nixon.
To be clear, Nixon was part of their ongoing, now nearly 100 year old, tantrum. This all goes back to their utter contempt for FDR's New Deal. Literally everything since then has been an attempt to return the top 0.1% to the Gilded Age. And it's working.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:16 AM on June 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
To be clear, Nixon was part of their ongoing, now nearly 100 year old, tantrum. This all goes back to their utter contempt for FDR's New Deal. Literally everything since then has been an attempt to return the top 0.1% to the Gilded Age. And it's working.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:16 AM on June 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
If, like me, you are running behind in the assembly of your forensic wall, Zachary Cohen and Marshall Cohen of CNN have compiled a handy timeline of the Trump-Comey saga so far. Includes links to the articles that reported the events/stories and video clips of selected testimony or statements.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 7:17 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 7:17 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
For this particular problem I think you should be blaming the money launderers rather than structural problems of the US.
I would suggest that money laundering IS a structural problem of the US. Look at the risk we're dealing with now. Structure a few deals to avoid reporting with Russian money back in the 80's and 90's, and next thing you know the President of the United States is compromised by Russian Intelligence.
posted by mikelieman at 7:39 AM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I would suggest that money laundering IS a structural problem of the US. Look at the risk we're dealing with now. Structure a few deals to avoid reporting with Russian money back in the 80's and 90's, and next thing you know the President of the United States is compromised by Russian Intelligence.
posted by mikelieman at 7:39 AM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
For a dose of reasoned doom, seasoned with a dollop or two of rallying: Now let's fight back against the politics of fear (N Klein, Grauniad).
posted by progosk at 7:42 AM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by progosk at 7:42 AM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump completely contradicts Romanian president right in front of him.
N.B. The Romanian visa situation is one of the countries in a serious sticking point with the EU over visa free access. The EU is ready to pull visa free access to the entire EU from US citizens and Trump is blithely ignoring/ignorant of the situation.
Looking forward, now that Preisdent Iohannis has one upped Trump like that US citizens can kiss their visa free access to the EU goodbye.
posted by Talez at 7:44 AM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
N.B. The Romanian visa situation is one of the countries in a serious sticking point with the EU over visa free access. The EU is ready to pull visa free access to the entire EU from US citizens and Trump is blithely ignoring/ignorant of the situation.
Looking forward, now that Preisdent Iohannis has one upped Trump like that US citizens can kiss their visa free access to the EU goodbye.
posted by Talez at 7:44 AM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
If we were to reign in the presidency, it would have to be done by constitutional amendment rather than statute or norms in order to avoid the "unilateral disarmament" problem, and it would have to be coupled with a blanket annulment of Trump's term in office. All laws signed, all regulations passed or rescinded, all judges/officials appointed and confirmed, all down the memory hole.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:46 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:46 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sarah Huckabee Sanders has tweeted out a bunch of gibberish. My two favorite theories are 1) Her child has gotten a hold of mommy's phone or 2) In loyalty to Trump she is outdoing his Covfefe moment.
Two things to look forward to this week: 1) Melania is supposed to move into the WH I believe on the 14th. 2) Trump's lawyer says they are definitely filing a lawsuit against Comey this week.
Note that either one or both of these things may never happen. Who knows anything anymore?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:47 AM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Two things to look forward to this week: 1) Melania is supposed to move into the WH I believe on the 14th. 2) Trump's lawyer says they are definitely filing a lawsuit against Comey this week.
Note that either one or both of these things may never happen. Who knows anything anymore?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:47 AM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
1) Her child has gotten a hold of mommy's phone
She said it was her three year old.
posted by Talez at 7:50 AM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
She said it was her three year old.
posted by Talez at 7:50 AM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
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Ĩ̶̟̙͉͓̟͍̞͋̇̇͐̃̕͝͝ḁ̷͎̝͙̭̘͐̂̆͒̾̄͆͘͜͜!̷̖̘̟̘̰̺̪̞̔̒̄͂̏̓̽̚͢ I̵̘̟̰̟̩͛̋͛̍͗̐̽͘͟͝ͅȃ̵̭̭̻͎̊̾̇͆̓̕͘ͅ!̷̛͔͍̤̻̭̱̤̣̘̒̓̀̿͛̏̕̚͟ L̵̢͍͖̯̯̤̱̹̐̔̈̋̊̎͗̒̃͘͟ͅo̸̤͔̺̥̳̰͛͑̑͗̓̽̅l͇̫̼͎͔̦̞̜̞̐̐̄͒́͊͞ȧ̲̜͉̼͔̩̆̂̑̕͜k̹̘͍͓̐̈́̎͑̂̾͟͝l̴͔̲͚̺̮̒̈̈́̄͐k͙̖͍͓̗͑̈̏͐͗̇͋̃̚͞ķ̶̡͖̫͕̮͔̗͑̿̔̐́͟͝ͅ ĉ̸̜̥̙͚̈̍͌̈́͋͋͜͟ȏ̶͍̞̗́̍̂̋͘͢ͅv̘̘̰̘̲̟͛͋̈̃͠f̸̛͇̝̜̳͓͓̋͋̊̌̕̚e̲̳̝̼̩̼̩̻͒̇̔̑̚͢͡f̧͓̞̘͚͈̲̖̟̐͗̓̀̐͢e̴̞͔̹͔̫̹͐͗͐̄̌ f̫̩̣̩̭̋̉̔̀̆'̡̲̱̯̙̤͙͕̥̽̀̎̅͠t̢̤̺̻̜̫̾̾̈́̎̋̈́͞a̡̢͔͚̠̭̫͖͒̄̆̆̋̐̌͜͟͠g̶̛̤̳̥͚͙͇͒̅̐͂̈̄̕̕͢͢͠n̨̞͓̤͈͈͙̫̗̑̉́͛͊͑̒̐͊!̴̢̙͕͇͈̰̲̞̃̇̉̓̍̂
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posted by Cookiebastard at 7:56 AM on June 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
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Ĩ̶̟̙͉͓̟͍̞͋̇̇͐̃̕͝͝ḁ̷͎̝͙̭̘͐̂̆͒̾̄͆͘͜͜!̷̖̘̟̘̰̺̪̞̔̒̄͂̏̓̽̚͢ I̵̘̟̰̟̩͛̋͛̍͗̐̽͘͟͝ͅȃ̵̭̭̻͎̊̾̇͆̓̕͘ͅ!̷̛͔͍̤̻̭̱̤̣̘̒̓̀̿͛̏̕̚͟ L̵̢͍͖̯̯̤̱̹̐̔̈̋̊̎͗̒̃͘͟ͅo̸̤͔̺̥̳̰͛͑̑͗̓̽̅l͇̫̼͎͔̦̞̜̞̐̐̄͒́͊͞ȧ̲̜͉̼͔̩̆̂̑̕͜k̹̘͍͓̐̈́̎͑̂̾͟͝l̴͔̲͚̺̮̒̈̈́̄͐k͙̖͍͓̗͑̈̏͐͗̇͋̃̚͞ķ̶̡͖̫͕̮͔̗͑̿̔̐́͟͝ͅ ĉ̸̜̥̙͚̈̍͌̈́͋͋͜͟ȏ̶͍̞̗́̍̂̋͘͢ͅv̘̘̰̘̲̟͛͋̈̃͠f̸̛͇̝̜̳͓͓̋͋̊̌̕̚e̲̳̝̼̩̼̩̻͒̇̔̑̚͢͡f̧͓̞̘͚͈̲̖̟̐͗̓̀̐͢e̴̞͔̹͔̫̹͐͗͐̄̌ f̫̩̣̩̭̋̉̔̀̆'̡̲̱̯̙̤͙͕̥̽̀̎̅͠t̢̤̺̻̜̫̾̾̈́̎̋̈́͞a̡̢͔͚̠̭̫͖͒̄̆̆̋̐̌͜͟͠g̶̛̤̳̥͚͙͇͒̅̐͂̈̄̕̕͢͢͠n̨̞͓̤͈͈͙̫̗̑̉́͛͊͑̒̐͊!̴̢̙͕͇͈̰̲̞̃̇̉̓̍̂
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posted by Cookiebastard at 7:56 AM on June 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
For a dose of reasoned doom, seasoned with a dollop or two of rallying: Now let's fight back against the politics of fear (N Klein, Grauniad).
Thanks for this, I love Naomi Klein. Seriously, when it's time to give up all hope she'll let us know.
If a three-year old was able to tweet from a White House phone they'll never be able to stop Trumo.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:10 AM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Thanks for this, I love Naomi Klein. Seriously, when it's time to give up all hope she'll let us know.
If a three-year old was able to tweet from a White House phone they'll never be able to stop Trumo.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:10 AM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Do people just leave the write-a-new-Tweet window open on their phone, all the time? Or is her three-year-old a genius?
You've never seen a toddler use an iPad I take it.
posted by Talez at 8:13 AM on June 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
You've never seen a toddler use an iPad I take it.
posted by Talez at 8:13 AM on June 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
Sarah Huckabee Sanders has tweeted out a bunch of gibberish.
Aaaawwwwwwww SHuckabeeS!!
#RockYouLikeAHermanCain
posted by petebest at 8:20 AM on June 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Aaaawwwwwwww SHuckabeeS!!
#RockYouLikeAHermanCain
posted by petebest at 8:20 AM on June 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Trump Impeachment Calls Surge Amid Comey Testimony
"Trumo" is a typo I sometime make but I don't correct it because everyone knows who I'm talking about, and it reminds me of Gabbo, who was also a puppet who talked shit about his fans.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:23 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Just hours before the testimony, after Comey’s opening statement had been released the previous day, MoveOn.org called for efforts to impeach Trump in the House of Representatives to get underway.Trumo
“In the United States, no one is above the law,” read a statement from Anna Galland, executive director of MoveOn.org Civic Action. “The testimony that former FBI Director James Comey is expected to deliver today makes clear that Congress must begin impeachment proceedings immediately.
“MoveOn does not make this call lightly.”
Later in the day, another group that has led the resistance against Trump’s policies, Indivisible, joined the chorus.
"Trumo" is a typo I sometime make but I don't correct it because everyone knows who I'm talking about, and it reminds me of Gabbo, who was also a puppet who talked shit about his fans.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:23 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trumo
Didn't Dalton Trumo write Johnny Got His Gu?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:25 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Didn't Dalton Trumo write Johnny Got His Gu?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:25 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Where's Rude? All the kids ask. What's the Rude news?
Judge says Rudy can law-talk for Turksh-Iranian man accused of using gold for money laundering.
Huh.
posted by petebest at 8:37 AM on June 10, 2017
Judge says Rudy can law-talk for Turksh-Iranian man accused of using gold for money laundering.
Huh.
posted by petebest at 8:37 AM on June 10, 2017
Nice writeup by Luisita Lopez Torregrosa in the NYT Style section: Katy Tur Is Tougher Than She Looks
Her cutting wit, which she underscores with a sharply raised eyebrow, comes through occasionally. When the White House press secretary Sean Spicer, on the receiving end of a barrage of questions, blurted, “You guys have an NBC thing,” Ms. Tur hissed back on-air: “Yes, we do. It’s called journalism.”posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:42 AM on June 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
Though she spends hours talking about Mr. Trump and laboring over a book about his campaign, she has not met with the president, on or off camera, since the election. But she’d like to sit down with him again. If he had wanted to scare her off, he miscalculated. “You can’t scare me like that,” Ms. Tur said. “I grew up with my mother hanging out of a helicopter. I mean, my parents got death threats when I was a kid. Maybe it’s because I’m jaded, but not a lot scares me.”
Progress, Louisiana style: Without fanfare, governor's ban on paddling disabled students expanded. The measure was pushed in the legislature by a Republican senator and a Republican rep.
posted by adamg at 8:43 AM on June 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by adamg at 8:43 AM on June 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Donald Trump’s secret isn’t that he lies. It’s that he crowds out the truth.
Trump isn't a liar, he's a bullshitter.
From philosopher Harry Frankfurt's essay "On Bullshit", which may turn out to be the definitive document on the Trump era: "For the bullshitter, however, all these bets are off: he is neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye is not on the facts at all, as the eyes of the honest man and of the liar are, except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away with what he says. He does not care whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose. {...}
"Someone who lies and someone who tells the truth are playing on opposite sides, so to speak, in the same game. Each responds to the facts as he understands them, although the response of the one is guided by the authority of the truth, while the response of the other defies that authority and refuses to meet its demands. The bullshitter ignores these demands altogether. He does not reject the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to it. He pays no attention to it at all. By virtue of this, bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are."
Trump doesn't so much lie as fill his speeches and interviews with verbal white noise, which contradicts the truth on practically a random basis. When he does lie, whether out of his perceived self-interest or his immediate circumstances, it's embarrassingly obvious, like a toddler denying he's been sneaking cookies when his hand is stuck in the jar. Frankly, he'd have to be smarter and better informed to rank as a liar among presidential past masters like Nixon.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:48 AM on June 10, 2017 [35 favorites]
Trump isn't a liar, he's a bullshitter.
From philosopher Harry Frankfurt's essay "On Bullshit", which may turn out to be the definitive document on the Trump era: "For the bullshitter, however, all these bets are off: he is neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye is not on the facts at all, as the eyes of the honest man and of the liar are, except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away with what he says. He does not care whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose. {...}
"Someone who lies and someone who tells the truth are playing on opposite sides, so to speak, in the same game. Each responds to the facts as he understands them, although the response of the one is guided by the authority of the truth, while the response of the other defies that authority and refuses to meet its demands. The bullshitter ignores these demands altogether. He does not reject the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to it. He pays no attention to it at all. By virtue of this, bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are."
Trump doesn't so much lie as fill his speeches and interviews with verbal white noise, which contradicts the truth on practically a random basis. When he does lie, whether out of his perceived self-interest or his immediate circumstances, it's embarrassingly obvious, like a toddler denying he's been sneaking cookies when his hand is stuck in the jar. Frankly, he'd have to be smarter and better informed to rank as a liar among presidential past masters like Nixon.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:48 AM on June 10, 2017 [35 favorites]
In addition to the CNN Comey timeline linked to above: The NPR Comey timeline reaches back to October 2015.
Maybe I should get going on my forensic wall and start adding stuff about Yates and Sessions before he testifies at a subcommittee hearing next Tuesday (CNN, "Jeff Sessions Set for Grilling on Russia, Comey").
"The Senate appropriations subcommittee hearing is billed as a discussion on the Justice Department budget, but Democrats say they will use the opportunity to grill their former Senate colleague about his alleged contacts with Russians and the controversial firing of former FBI Directory James Comey, among other hot-button issues."
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 8:49 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe I should get going on my forensic wall and start adding stuff about Yates and Sessions before he testifies at a subcommittee hearing next Tuesday (CNN, "Jeff Sessions Set for Grilling on Russia, Comey").
"The Senate appropriations subcommittee hearing is billed as a discussion on the Justice Department budget, but Democrats say they will use the opportunity to grill their former Senate colleague about his alleged contacts with Russians and the controversial firing of former FBI Directory James Comey, among other hot-button issues."
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 8:49 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I can't believe that this hasn't gotten more press, but tomorrow Puerto Rico will hold another referendum on its status. I argued a few months ago that, on purely political terms, bringing the insular areas into the US as states would be good for the Democrats (or at least bad for the Republicans and thus good for the future of the republic).
Puerto Rico as a state would mean 2 likely-D senators, 4 to 5 likely-D congresspeople, and 6 to 7 almost certainly D electoral votes. So, therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if a statehood vote was followed by Congress refusing to pass, or Trimpy refusing to sign, a statehood bill…
posted by dhens at 8:52 AM on June 10, 2017 [51 favorites]
Puerto Rico as a state would mean 2 likely-D senators, 4 to 5 likely-D congresspeople, and 6 to 7 almost certainly D electoral votes. So, therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if a statehood vote was followed by Congress refusing to pass, or Trimpy refusing to sign, a statehood bill…
posted by dhens at 8:52 AM on June 10, 2017 [51 favorites]
Meanwhile, in Finland: Finnish coalition at risk after nationalists pick hardline leader (Reuters)
Finland's eurosceptic Finns party picked an anti-immigration hardliner as its leader on Saturday in a move that the Prime Minister said might lead to a break-up of the coalition government it is part of.
At a Finns party congress, 56 percent of its members voted in favor of European Parliament member Jussi Halla-aho, who wants Finland to leave the European Union.
Halla-aho, who was fined by Finland's Supreme Court in 2012 for comments on a blog that linked Islam to paedophilia and Somalis to theft, has said he would push the three-party coalition to tighten immigration policies, and that he would not stick to the three-party government at any cost.
[just realized this is probably off-topic (not US politics)--mods, please delete as necessary]
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 9:03 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Finland's eurosceptic Finns party picked an anti-immigration hardliner as its leader on Saturday in a move that the Prime Minister said might lead to a break-up of the coalition government it is part of.
At a Finns party congress, 56 percent of its members voted in favor of European Parliament member Jussi Halla-aho, who wants Finland to leave the European Union.
Halla-aho, who was fined by Finland's Supreme Court in 2012 for comments on a blog that linked Islam to paedophilia and Somalis to theft, has said he would push the three-party coalition to tighten immigration policies, and that he would not stick to the three-party government at any cost.
[just realized this is probably off-topic (not US politics)--mods, please delete as necessary]
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 9:03 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Judge says Rudy can law-talk for Turksh-Iranian man accused of using gold for money laundering.
Huh.
Wait, what?
"The office of Joon H. Kim, the acting United States attorney for the Southern District of New York, had asked Judge Richard M. Berman of Federal District Court to conduct an inquiry into potential conflict issues raised by the two lawyers’ roles.
For example, Mr. Giuliani’s law firm, Greenberg Traurig, and Mr. Mukasey’s firm, Debevoise & Plimpton, each represented banks that prosecutors say were victims of Mr. Zarrab’s scheme. Mr. Giuliani’s firm also served as a registered agent of Turkey.
[...]
“Mr. Zarrab has stated unequivocally that he knowingly and voluntarily waives his right to conflict-free representation by Messrs. Giuliani and Mukasey,” the judge wrote.
Judge Berman noted that the potential conflicts were described for Mr. Zarrab in court, including the ways in which Mr. Giuliani’s firm’s representation of Turkey may adversely affect his defense. Mr. Zarrab said he wanted to continue to be represented by the law firm.
“I understand that the Greenberg firm represents the government of the Turkish Republic,” Mr. Zarrab told the judge. “In theory, the interests of the government of the Turkish Republic and my interests could be different in connection with this case. I do waive all my rights according to this subject,” Mr. Zarrab added.
"In theory"? More like in no way - if I'm reading this right, a defendant whom Turkey prefers not to see prosecuted gets to choose exactly that kind of back-door free pass. The "diplomatic solution" meaning 45's admin is in bed with Turkey on this - which is what the state attorney was trying to get at, surely. How is it this fell to the defendant to choose?
posted by progosk at 9:19 AM on June 10, 2017
Huh.
Wait, what?
"The office of Joon H. Kim, the acting United States attorney for the Southern District of New York, had asked Judge Richard M. Berman of Federal District Court to conduct an inquiry into potential conflict issues raised by the two lawyers’ roles.
For example, Mr. Giuliani’s law firm, Greenberg Traurig, and Mr. Mukasey’s firm, Debevoise & Plimpton, each represented banks that prosecutors say were victims of Mr. Zarrab’s scheme. Mr. Giuliani’s firm also served as a registered agent of Turkey.
[...]
“Mr. Zarrab has stated unequivocally that he knowingly and voluntarily waives his right to conflict-free representation by Messrs. Giuliani and Mukasey,” the judge wrote.
Judge Berman noted that the potential conflicts were described for Mr. Zarrab in court, including the ways in which Mr. Giuliani’s firm’s representation of Turkey may adversely affect his defense. Mr. Zarrab said he wanted to continue to be represented by the law firm.
“I understand that the Greenberg firm represents the government of the Turkish Republic,” Mr. Zarrab told the judge. “In theory, the interests of the government of the Turkish Republic and my interests could be different in connection with this case. I do waive all my rights according to this subject,” Mr. Zarrab added.
"In theory"? More like in no way - if I'm reading this right, a defendant whom Turkey prefers not to see prosecuted gets to choose exactly that kind of back-door free pass. The "diplomatic solution" meaning 45's admin is in bed with Turkey on this - which is what the state attorney was trying to get at, surely. How is it this fell to the defendant to choose?
posted by progosk at 9:19 AM on June 10, 2017
Katy Tur Is Tougher Than She Looks
I first knew of Katy Tur years ago, from when she started dating Keith Olbermann. I belonged to an Olbermannn group in LJ (more swoony that newsy) and the women became vicious. I've been thrilled to see her rise and show up her haters.
Actually, I only just started started watching TV news again since the election, and now that it's back to a regular format I think Tur, Hallie Jackson*, and Kasie Hunt are fantastic in the field, with Stephanie Ruhle as the ringleader holding down the fort.
Maybe I should get going on my forensic wall and start adding stuff about Yates and Sessions before he testifies at a subcommittee hearing next Tuesday
Don't forget to get enough string for Kushner. He's got some talks coming up soon.
Judge says Rudy can law-talk for Turksh-Iranian man accused of using gold for money laundering.
Rudy can't fail :/
PS: I sure hope Ivana (not Ivanka) is going to write a book.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:27 AM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I first knew of Katy Tur years ago, from when she started dating Keith Olbermann. I belonged to an Olbermannn group in LJ (more swoony that newsy) and the women became vicious. I've been thrilled to see her rise and show up her haters.
Actually, I only just started started watching TV news again since the election, and now that it's back to a regular format I think Tur, Hallie Jackson*, and Kasie Hunt are fantastic in the field, with Stephanie Ruhle as the ringleader holding down the fort.
Maybe I should get going on my forensic wall and start adding stuff about Yates and Sessions before he testifies at a subcommittee hearing next Tuesday
Don't forget to get enough string for Kushner. He's got some talks coming up soon.
Judge says Rudy can law-talk for Turksh-Iranian man accused of using gold for money laundering.
Rudy can't fail :/
PS: I sure hope Ivana (not Ivanka) is going to write a book.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:27 AM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Will Comey's Testimony Matter? Politico compilation of opinions from multiple legal experts (I counted 16). Opinions range from "this is nothing" to "this is a big deal" to "everyone's missing the real point, which is X"--once again demonstrating that grownups don't know anything. (Ok, partly sarcastic, but see Brexit, November 2016, UK snap election this week, this entire past year, etc.)
Maybe I should get going on my forensic wall and start adding stuff about Yates and Sessions before he testifies at a subcommittee hearing next Tuesday
Don't forget to get enough string for Kushner. He's got some talks coming up soon.
It's mind-boggling. We're gonna need a bigger wall. I have been trying to get a mental grip on how so many of the issues/characters are entwined together in this scandal, so much so that I lose track of which particular issue the current fuss is about (e.g., just from Comey's testimony, it was hard to keep track of the different investigations and where the possible obstruction of justice took place--directing/"hoping" for the dropping of the Flynn investigation? firing Comey to affect the Russia investigation?). Haven't even gotten to the Sessions/Kushner/emoluments cans of worms, which will probably only keep trying to crawl off our forensic wall.
Almost makes me sympathetic about the conflation in McCain's hazy contribution to the hearing. (Oh right, gotta marker in the Clinton emails investigation ugh because it was Trump's initial stated reason for firing Comey and the GOP's horse that will not die.)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 10:12 AM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe I should get going on my forensic wall and start adding stuff about Yates and Sessions before he testifies at a subcommittee hearing next Tuesday
Don't forget to get enough string for Kushner. He's got some talks coming up soon.
It's mind-boggling. We're gonna need a bigger wall. I have been trying to get a mental grip on how so many of the issues/characters are entwined together in this scandal, so much so that I lose track of which particular issue the current fuss is about (e.g., just from Comey's testimony, it was hard to keep track of the different investigations and where the possible obstruction of justice took place--directing/"hoping" for the dropping of the Flynn investigation? firing Comey to affect the Russia investigation?). Haven't even gotten to the Sessions/Kushner/emoluments cans of worms, which will probably only keep trying to crawl off our forensic wall.
Almost makes me sympathetic about the conflation in McCain's hazy contribution to the hearing. (Oh right, gotta marker in the Clinton emails investigation ugh because it was Trump's initial stated reason for firing Comey and the GOP's horse that will not die.)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 10:12 AM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nice writeup by Luisita Lopez Torregrosa in the NYT Style section: Katy Tur Is Tougher Than She Looks
As glad as I am to see Katy Tur get credit and recognition, just try to imagine that headline being written about a man.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:29 AM on June 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
As glad as I am to see Katy Tur get credit and recognition, just try to imagine that headline being written about a man.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:29 AM on June 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
Qatar, Accused of Supporting Terrorism, Hires Ex-U.S. Attorney General (Reuters/ NY Times)
The government of Qatar has hired John Ashcroft, the U.S. attorney general during the Sept. 11 attacks, as it seeks to rebut accusations from U.S. President Donald Trump and its Arab neighbors that it supports terrorism.
...
Qatar faces isolation by fellow Arab countries after Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Egypt severed ties with Doha on Monday, accusing it of supporting Islamist militants and their adversary Iran. Qatar denies the allegations.
The crisis is a major diplomatic test for the United States, which is a close ally of countries on both sides but has given mixed signals on whether to isolate Qatar or bring it into talks with other Gulf countries.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 10:34 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
The government of Qatar has hired John Ashcroft, the U.S. attorney general during the Sept. 11 attacks, as it seeks to rebut accusations from U.S. President Donald Trump and its Arab neighbors that it supports terrorism.
...
Qatar faces isolation by fellow Arab countries after Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Egypt severed ties with Doha on Monday, accusing it of supporting Islamist militants and their adversary Iran. Qatar denies the allegations.
The crisis is a major diplomatic test for the United States, which is a close ally of countries on both sides but has given mixed signals on whether to isolate Qatar or bring it into talks with other Gulf countries.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 10:34 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
You've never seen a toddler use an iPad I take it.
Yes, and it's terrifying. My friend's kid is barely 3 years old and he gets confused by any screen that isn't a touch screen. I was showing him a picture of himself on my digital camera and the first thing he did was try to pinch-zoom on the screen. Then he tried swiping to change pictures.
When I used the buttons and jog wheel to zoom and scroll, his brow furrowed and he turned and looked at me with a mix of concern and pity like I was some kind of stone age relic and toddled off, shaking his head in disappointment.
posted by loquacious at 10:35 AM on June 10, 2017 [57 favorites]
Yes, and it's terrifying. My friend's kid is barely 3 years old and he gets confused by any screen that isn't a touch screen. I was showing him a picture of himself on my digital camera and the first thing he did was try to pinch-zoom on the screen. Then he tried swiping to change pictures.
When I used the buttons and jog wheel to zoom and scroll, his brow furrowed and he turned and looked at me with a mix of concern and pity like I was some kind of stone age relic and toddled off, shaking his head in disappointment.
posted by loquacious at 10:35 AM on June 10, 2017 [57 favorites]
The government of Qatar has hired John Ashcroft, the U.S. attorney general during the Sept. 11 attacks,
uhm...I kinda doubt he's up to it guys
posted by dragstroke at 10:38 AM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
uhm...I kinda doubt he's up to it guys
posted by dragstroke at 10:38 AM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
As glad as I am to see Katy Tur get credit and recognition, just try to imagine that headline being written about a man.
No kidding.
Trump singling out Katy Tur and attacking her is kinda like the liar/bullshitter thing, you can make a distinction between what he's doing and why he's doing it. It might have been personal, but Trump's bigger point was to demonstrate to his base that he wasn't going to tolerate an uppity woman asking questions. He knew she couldn't fight back because of her professional obligations as a reporter.
There's the old maxim about picking a fight with the biggest guy around to show everyone that you're not a pushover. Trump is the opposite of that, he signals that he's a big man by picking the on the weaker person, or the disabled, or a crying baby; he takes the biggest swipes at the people who are unable to fight back. His reflex is always cruelty; he punches below the belt and he gleefully kicks people when they are down. It's pathetic, but his fans eat it up.
Also, this is my favorite Katy Tur tweet from the whole campaign.
posted by peeedro at 10:42 AM on June 10, 2017 [39 favorites]
No kidding.
Trump singling out Katy Tur and attacking her is kinda like the liar/bullshitter thing, you can make a distinction between what he's doing and why he's doing it. It might have been personal, but Trump's bigger point was to demonstrate to his base that he wasn't going to tolerate an uppity woman asking questions. He knew she couldn't fight back because of her professional obligations as a reporter.
There's the old maxim about picking a fight with the biggest guy around to show everyone that you're not a pushover. Trump is the opposite of that, he signals that he's a big man by picking the on the weaker person, or the disabled, or a crying baby; he takes the biggest swipes at the people who are unable to fight back. His reflex is always cruelty; he punches below the belt and he gleefully kicks people when they are down. It's pathetic, but his fans eat it up.
Also, this is my favorite Katy Tur tweet from the whole campaign.
posted by peeedro at 10:42 AM on June 10, 2017 [39 favorites]
Anyone got a direct link to the video Lalex posted above?
posted by notsnot at 10:44 AM on June 10, 2017
posted by notsnot at 10:44 AM on June 10, 2017
And the history between Ashcroft and Comey is just a coincidence?
uhm...I kinda doubt he's up to it guys
Hey, this eagle still has some flying to do.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:49 AM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
uhm...I kinda doubt he's up to it guys
Hey, this eagle still has some flying to do.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:49 AM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Katy Tur Is Tougher Than She Looks
As glad as I am to see Katy Tur get credit and recognition, just try to imagine that headline being written about a man.
Meet the Real Jared Kushner:
He’s a lot tougher than he looks.
posted by Mothlight at 11:15 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
As glad as I am to see Katy Tur get credit and recognition, just try to imagine that headline being written about a man.
Meet the Real Jared Kushner:
He’s a lot tougher than he looks.
posted by Mothlight at 11:15 AM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I mean, the original point is legit. It's just that the juxtaposition is kinda interesting.
posted by Mothlight at 11:18 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Mothlight at 11:18 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
FWIW, lots of banks in the US support easy transfer of funds between banks. Brokerages take a few business days to process transactions because there hasn't been demand for them to change it like there was for commercial banks. There is a lot of money laundering that goes through China so there is extra scrutiny on US-China transfers. Any system to better facilitate transfers of funds from US banks to Chinese banks would likely be slowed down by the same AML and OFAC regulatory requirements that delay wires. For this particular problem I think you should be blaming the money launderers rather than structural problems of the US.
posted by VTX at 10:26 PM on June 10 [5 favorites +] [!]
And this is off-topic, but only kinda - I'm not talking about cross-border transfers, I'm talking about free interbank transfers take 3-5 business days in the US. They don't take that amount of time anywhere else in the world, they are instantaneous. Primer from 2013, short of it is we tried and failed because US banks like making money on the float. It's just one more thing we should fix, one more place that the US is the international odd man out, but that we won't fix because government is broken. (Don't get me started on US money laundering laws, we strongarmed the rest of the world into compliance with our laws. Yes I will shut up now.)
posted by saysthis at 11:24 AM on June 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by VTX at 10:26 PM on June 10 [5 favorites +] [!]
And this is off-topic, but only kinda - I'm not talking about cross-border transfers, I'm talking about free interbank transfers take 3-5 business days in the US. They don't take that amount of time anywhere else in the world, they are instantaneous. Primer from 2013, short of it is we tried and failed because US banks like making money on the float. It's just one more thing we should fix, one more place that the US is the international odd man out, but that we won't fix because government is broken. (Don't get me started on US money laundering laws, we strongarmed the rest of the world into compliance with our laws. Yes I will shut up now.)
posted by saysthis at 11:24 AM on June 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
And this is off-topic, but only kinda - I'm not talking about cross-border transfers, I'm talking about free interbank transfers take 3-5 business days in the US.
I think this counts as On-topic as this is still "infrastructure week", and archaic business infrastructure (even if I stretch the term) hurts competitiveness.
posted by puddledork at 11:32 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think this counts as On-topic as this is still "infrastructure week", and archaic business infrastructure (even if I stretch the term) hurts competitiveness.
posted by puddledork at 11:32 AM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
You may not think talking dinosaur comics are on-topic, but I assure you, they are.
Oyez, oyez they are. <3 T-Rex (not the sleepy one)
posted by petebest at 11:46 AM on June 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
Oyez, oyez they are. <3 T-Rex (not the sleepy one)
posted by petebest at 11:46 AM on June 10, 2017 [14 favorites]
once again demonstrating that grownups don't know anything.
I was looking at the comments from Republicans on one of the WaPo articles, and it struck me how some of them reminded me of the "grown-up" talk I've been hearing my whole life. Condescending, self-assured, using big words and also complete rubbish. But I think millions of us have been conditioned to accept that type of speech as "grown-up" and "in-charge". And have struggled to understand that it is all bullshit and act accordingly. There is a lot of writing these days about how Trump is a bullshitter, and that is all fine and good. But so is McCain, so is Romney, so are a majority of leaders mostly Conservative but also a great deal of Liberals. I live in a culture where voting is given, and I would never not vote, but I get why someone would abstain from voting if they feel disenfranchised already from the manner of speech on the TV. By "grown-up" talk.
If I wear my pink glasses, I'd say that what is happening right now is that a growing number of people are no longer taking that bullshit, and the whole huge bullshit segment are scared as hell. In that sense we are in the middle of a revolution, one very similar to that of 1968. I bet that if you were a young person, or a female person or a person of color back then, you would also experience the backlash as overpowering and criminal. And you'd be both right and wrong. It was overpowering and criminal but at the end of the day the counterculture movements had far more influence on how the world has become than the assassins and all the other racists and bigots. Looking at demographics, maybe this is their last desperate call, and something completely different will arise.
I know well that a lot of today's scared racists are boomers who enjoyed the freedoms of -68, wether they were politically and culturally aligned with the counterculture or not. And I think that even as they die out, new reactionary movements will spring forth. The radical conservatism of many young people across cultures point in that direction. There will never be an end of history.
And obviously the whole spread of propaganda and fake news is a challenge to democracy.
But look at that Matt Yglesias quote up there:
That story — heavy-handed intervention into US electoral politics by a foreign government that had a somewhat mysterious interest in helping a candidate who, in turn, had a somewhat mysterious affection for Putin — was the big deal story of the leaks. Basically nobody in the press wrote it that way. The spin was just too aggressive, self-serving, and a little far-fetched.
That's "grown-up" speech right there. In the face of the obvious truth, journalists prefer to uphold the status quo, because what? I have no idea. They wanted to end Western Civilization? They wanted to be part of the establishment ad join in the looting of Western Civilization?
Whatever they meant, they clearly confirmed the paranoia of both the Trumpists and the Radical Left by upholding the fiction of the adults in the room who were never there and never knew more than we did and never had a clue about how to handle whatever was going on. I've never liked Sanders or Corbyn - I was a young woman on the tail end of the 70's leftist movement and I remember that type of men too well. Don't even start me. But I have to admit that there is a connection between their revolution back then and the one that is happening now, and I can see how it makes sense to draw on their experience.
I am confident that this time, things will work out better. During the 70's, they had Nixon who was a sly crook, now they have Trump who is a caricature of a human being. They are loosing speed. Good things are moving along slowly. Too slowly, I know, but they are moving ahead, not backwards like the evil.
posted by mumimor at 11:56 AM on June 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
I was looking at the comments from Republicans on one of the WaPo articles, and it struck me how some of them reminded me of the "grown-up" talk I've been hearing my whole life. Condescending, self-assured, using big words and also complete rubbish. But I think millions of us have been conditioned to accept that type of speech as "grown-up" and "in-charge". And have struggled to understand that it is all bullshit and act accordingly. There is a lot of writing these days about how Trump is a bullshitter, and that is all fine and good. But so is McCain, so is Romney, so are a majority of leaders mostly Conservative but also a great deal of Liberals. I live in a culture where voting is given, and I would never not vote, but I get why someone would abstain from voting if they feel disenfranchised already from the manner of speech on the TV. By "grown-up" talk.
If I wear my pink glasses, I'd say that what is happening right now is that a growing number of people are no longer taking that bullshit, and the whole huge bullshit segment are scared as hell. In that sense we are in the middle of a revolution, one very similar to that of 1968. I bet that if you were a young person, or a female person or a person of color back then, you would also experience the backlash as overpowering and criminal. And you'd be both right and wrong. It was overpowering and criminal but at the end of the day the counterculture movements had far more influence on how the world has become than the assassins and all the other racists and bigots. Looking at demographics, maybe this is their last desperate call, and something completely different will arise.
I know well that a lot of today's scared racists are boomers who enjoyed the freedoms of -68, wether they were politically and culturally aligned with the counterculture or not. And I think that even as they die out, new reactionary movements will spring forth. The radical conservatism of many young people across cultures point in that direction. There will never be an end of history.
And obviously the whole spread of propaganda and fake news is a challenge to democracy.
But look at that Matt Yglesias quote up there:
That story — heavy-handed intervention into US electoral politics by a foreign government that had a somewhat mysterious interest in helping a candidate who, in turn, had a somewhat mysterious affection for Putin — was the big deal story of the leaks. Basically nobody in the press wrote it that way. The spin was just too aggressive, self-serving, and a little far-fetched.
That's "grown-up" speech right there. In the face of the obvious truth, journalists prefer to uphold the status quo, because what? I have no idea. They wanted to end Western Civilization? They wanted to be part of the establishment ad join in the looting of Western Civilization?
Whatever they meant, they clearly confirmed the paranoia of both the Trumpists and the Radical Left by upholding the fiction of the adults in the room who were never there and never knew more than we did and never had a clue about how to handle whatever was going on. I've never liked Sanders or Corbyn - I was a young woman on the tail end of the 70's leftist movement and I remember that type of men too well. Don't even start me. But I have to admit that there is a connection between their revolution back then and the one that is happening now, and I can see how it makes sense to draw on their experience.
I am confident that this time, things will work out better. During the 70's, they had Nixon who was a sly crook, now they have Trump who is a caricature of a human being. They are loosing speed. Good things are moving along slowly. Too slowly, I know, but they are moving ahead, not backwards like the evil.
posted by mumimor at 11:56 AM on June 10, 2017 [29 favorites]
NYT: Comey Buzz Muffles a Warning on Russia: ‘They Will Be Back’
To add a little good news to this: Va. 9-year-old delivers cookies to James Comey. His 9-year-old neighbor baked him a dozen cookies and brought them over with a note: "We are proud to be your neighbor and thank you for all you have done for America. Love: Abby Grace,” it read."
posted by zachlipton at 12:05 PM on June 10, 2017 [70 favorites]
“There should be no fuzz on this whatsoever,” Mr. Comey said. “The Russians interfered in our election during the 2016 cycle. They did it with purpose. They did it with sophistication. They did it with overwhelming technical efforts. And it was an active-measures campaign driven from the top of that government. There is no fuzz on that.”Meanwhile, Trump refuses to acknowledge that Russia played any role at all and completely ignores the topic, claiming it is "an excuse by the Democrats who lost an election that some people think they shouldn’t have lost, because it's almost impossible for the Democrats to lose the Electoral College, as you know."
He added, “That’s about as un-fake as you can possibly get and is very, very serious.”
To add a little good news to this: Va. 9-year-old delivers cookies to James Comey. His 9-year-old neighbor baked him a dozen cookies and brought them over with a note: "We are proud to be your neighbor and thank you for all you have done for America. Love: Abby Grace,” it read."
posted by zachlipton at 12:05 PM on June 10, 2017 [70 favorites]
I belonged to an Olbermannn group in LJ (more swoony that newsy) and the women became vicious.
I...
1) Her child has gotten a hold of mommy's phone
She said it was her three year old.
Security in the Trump White House is the best.
I can't figure out why suddenly, very suddenly, so many major news outlets, politicians, etc. are using the phrase "nothing burger" when they want to say "nothing". I can't figure out WTF that is even supposed to mean. Whoever is running this simulation is definitely fucking with me now, and are just making it more and more ridiculous, snickering and snorting the whole time.
posted by bongo_x at 12:13 PM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
I...
1) Her child has gotten a hold of mommy's phone
She said it was her three year old.
Security in the Trump White House is the best.
I can't figure out why suddenly, very suddenly, so many major news outlets, politicians, etc. are using the phrase "nothing burger" when they want to say "nothing". I can't figure out WTF that is even supposed to mean. Whoever is running this simulation is definitely fucking with me now, and are just making it more and more ridiculous, snickering and snorting the whole time.
posted by bongo_x at 12:13 PM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
witchen, my toddler (now 4.5) has been able to send messages, make facebook posts, facetime people, and send voice memos since he was three. He also asks siri what the weather is, and "searches" youtube for videos he likes (using the hyperlink method of searching, or skipping to the the end of a video he doesn't like to see the wall of other videos to choose from)
I have received many many text messages similarly filled with "stickers".
posted by lastobelus at 12:22 PM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have received many many text messages similarly filled with "stickers".
posted by lastobelus at 12:22 PM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I didn't want to comment on this earlier in case it was off-topic (and mods, feel free to delete if it is), but
It's just one more thing we should fix, one more place that the US is the international odd man out, but that we won't fix because government is broken.
I just want to back up saythis's points about how archaic the US banking system is compared to the rest of the world. It is indeed super easy to do quick transfers to other people's accounts elsewhere, and there's no US equivalent. When you start to talk about your US bank account with Europeans, for example, they're aghast; it's 10 to 20 years behind. If, you're living outside the US but your primary bank account is a US one, it can kind of be a nightmare. (And a lot of foreign banks are increasingly reluctant to give accounts to American citizens even if they are resident because of the headache/paperwork it generates for them.)
It's another way that the US is isolating itself, and most people are completely unaware, because, well, of the isolation. And I agree that it is a serious infrastructure issue.
posted by tiger tiger at 12:22 PM on June 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
It's just one more thing we should fix, one more place that the US is the international odd man out, but that we won't fix because government is broken.
I just want to back up saythis's points about how archaic the US banking system is compared to the rest of the world. It is indeed super easy to do quick transfers to other people's accounts elsewhere, and there's no US equivalent. When you start to talk about your US bank account with Europeans, for example, they're aghast; it's 10 to 20 years behind. If, you're living outside the US but your primary bank account is a US one, it can kind of be a nightmare. (And a lot of foreign banks are increasingly reluctant to give accounts to American citizens even if they are resident because of the headache/paperwork it generates for them.)
It's another way that the US is isolating itself, and most people are completely unaware, because, well, of the isolation. And I agree that it is a serious infrastructure issue.
posted by tiger tiger at 12:22 PM on June 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
(And a lot of foreign banks are increasingly reluctant to give accounts to American citizens even if they are resident because of the headache/paperwork it generates for them.)
Confirmed. My bank manager in São Paulo told me this point blank, after an exhaustive process to force the bank to allow me to have a bank account. They did everything they could to convince me to just give up.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:32 PM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Confirmed. My bank manager in São Paulo told me this point blank, after an exhaustive process to force the bank to allow me to have a bank account. They did everything they could to convince me to just give up.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:32 PM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
I am confident that this time, things will work out better. During the 70's, they had Nixon who was a sly crook, now they have Trump who is a caricature of a human being. They are loosing speed. Good things are moving along slowly. Too slowly, I know, but they are moving ahead, not backwards like the evil.
I agree. And I think this is a red flag, something to watch out for.
This will only work out better if we don't get complacent. If we keep calling. Keep writing. Keep striving to inform those who "don't care about politics" that this matters, that they should care because at least some of it absolutely will affect something precious to them.
We need to keep reminding each other: This is not normal, and it is not right. And it doesn't matter if we've gotten used to it - because we're humans, because adaptability under horrific living conditions is how our species has survived - we need to keep fighting.
It's only getting better because we've worked so hard at it, and (sigh) marathon, not sprint… it's not over. It's not close to over. If he got impeached tomorrow and the VP with him, it would not be over - after a weekend of celebrating, we'd still need to fight like hell against the AHCA, dismantling of Dodd-Frank, the environmental policy of "poison the water and burn the sky," the growing attempts to relabel anyone with a womb as property, and the violence being conducted against people of color for the crime of being born with darker skin than the old rich white dudes in charge.
I don't mean to shout "panic panic panic;" we all know these things are all going on. We have to pick some to focus our energies. Just... don't let our successes make us relax enough to lose ground in the other areas.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:35 PM on June 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
I agree. And I think this is a red flag, something to watch out for.
This will only work out better if we don't get complacent. If we keep calling. Keep writing. Keep striving to inform those who "don't care about politics" that this matters, that they should care because at least some of it absolutely will affect something precious to them.
We need to keep reminding each other: This is not normal, and it is not right. And it doesn't matter if we've gotten used to it - because we're humans, because adaptability under horrific living conditions is how our species has survived - we need to keep fighting.
It's only getting better because we've worked so hard at it, and (sigh) marathon, not sprint… it's not over. It's not close to over. If he got impeached tomorrow and the VP with him, it would not be over - after a weekend of celebrating, we'd still need to fight like hell against the AHCA, dismantling of Dodd-Frank, the environmental policy of "poison the water and burn the sky," the growing attempts to relabel anyone with a womb as property, and the violence being conducted against people of color for the crime of being born with darker skin than the old rich white dudes in charge.
I don't mean to shout "panic panic panic;" we all know these things are all going on. We have to pick some to focus our energies. Just... don't let our successes make us relax enough to lose ground in the other areas.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:35 PM on June 10, 2017 [21 favorites]
Probably, if you use your iPad for work, you should not give it to your toddler.
I have an iPad I lend to the kids I am a relief parent for, and I've learnt the hard way that they need to be supervised and monitored all the time they are using it.
Some things happened I won't write about here, but one thing was that the little boy (then 4) was taking pictures with it at night when he couldn't fall asleep. Including quite a lot of pictures of his genitals. I wasn't aware of this, and I didn't realize I was loading all images to iCloud automatically (because I'd brought the pad on a holiday and forgotten to reset it when I came back). So long story short: I was in class and wanted to show students images from a study trip when suddenly multiple images of a 4-yo's genitals show up on my computer (luckily not on the big screen). I'm just a stupid professor, but I'd have thought there would be some sort of protocol in the White House to prevent stuff like this from happening.
posted by mumimor at 12:38 PM on June 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
I have an iPad I lend to the kids I am a relief parent for, and I've learnt the hard way that they need to be supervised and monitored all the time they are using it.
Some things happened I won't write about here, but one thing was that the little boy (then 4) was taking pictures with it at night when he couldn't fall asleep. Including quite a lot of pictures of his genitals. I wasn't aware of this, and I didn't realize I was loading all images to iCloud automatically (because I'd brought the pad on a holiday and forgotten to reset it when I came back). So long story short: I was in class and wanted to show students images from a study trip when suddenly multiple images of a 4-yo's genitals show up on my computer (luckily not on the big screen). I'm just a stupid professor, but I'd have thought there would be some sort of protocol in the White House to prevent stuff like this from happening.
posted by mumimor at 12:38 PM on June 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
Official 2017 motto: "I'd have thought there would be some sort of protocol in the White House to prevent stuff like this from happening."
posted by mochapickle at 12:41 PM on June 10, 2017 [64 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 12:41 PM on June 10, 2017 [64 favorites]
> because it's almost impossible for the Democrats to lose the Electoral College, as you know.
I think I figured this one out. We here know that the electoral college (and "representative democracy" as practiced in America in general) systematically overrepresents sparsely populated right-wing states, to the point that twice in 16 years unpopular Repiblicans took power despite not being preferred by the electorate as a whole. So this statement seems like moon language to us.
The thing about Donald Trump is that he doesn't have a head for much of anything more complex than golf, and moreover demands that everyone around him flatter him constantly lest his need for narcissistic supply drive him to rage fits.
Combine these observations and you see that "it's almost impossible for you to win the electoral college" — a polite way to tell Trump that he wasn't favored to win — became transmogrified in his brain into "the electoral college is rigged for the democrats." By talking, before the election, about the electoral college instead of the popular vote, Trump's lackeys were able to prepare the man for a loss without giving him the troubling (and tantrum-inducing) idea that he might be unpopular.
Possibly foremost among the many things that the idiot doesn't understand is the concept of flattery; because he has money and no redeeming qualities, the only people around him are people who want to use him for his money and power, and that the way you do that is through flattery. Because he has seen nothing but flattery his entire life, he perversely doesn't recognize it. That's just the way people act, as he sees it, unless they're "showboats". Consider how visibly confused he was, for example, by Obama being nice to him during the transition; from his perspective, this man who was very mean to him a few years back now genuinely liked him.
Anyway, because one of the flattery sentences delivered to him on a regular basis was "it's almost impossible for you to win the electoral college," we're now stuck with the idiot telling everyone every chance he can get that he did the impossible through winning the electoral college. we're also stuck with his fixed idea that he must have won the popular vote as well, since he has taken the statements from his lackeys about the difficulty of him winning the electoral college as a sign that winning the electoral college was harder than winning the popular vote. To the idiot's mind, having done this thing that he was told was harder means that he must have necessarily also done the thing that they were trying to distract him from — and so if he won that "impossible" electoral college, he must have won the "easier" popular vote as well.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:56 PM on June 10, 2017 [57 favorites]
I think I figured this one out. We here know that the electoral college (and "representative democracy" as practiced in America in general) systematically overrepresents sparsely populated right-wing states, to the point that twice in 16 years unpopular Repiblicans took power despite not being preferred by the electorate as a whole. So this statement seems like moon language to us.
The thing about Donald Trump is that he doesn't have a head for much of anything more complex than golf, and moreover demands that everyone around him flatter him constantly lest his need for narcissistic supply drive him to rage fits.
Combine these observations and you see that "it's almost impossible for you to win the electoral college" — a polite way to tell Trump that he wasn't favored to win — became transmogrified in his brain into "the electoral college is rigged for the democrats." By talking, before the election, about the electoral college instead of the popular vote, Trump's lackeys were able to prepare the man for a loss without giving him the troubling (and tantrum-inducing) idea that he might be unpopular.
Possibly foremost among the many things that the idiot doesn't understand is the concept of flattery; because he has money and no redeeming qualities, the only people around him are people who want to use him for his money and power, and that the way you do that is through flattery. Because he has seen nothing but flattery his entire life, he perversely doesn't recognize it. That's just the way people act, as he sees it, unless they're "showboats". Consider how visibly confused he was, for example, by Obama being nice to him during the transition; from his perspective, this man who was very mean to him a few years back now genuinely liked him.
Anyway, because one of the flattery sentences delivered to him on a regular basis was "it's almost impossible for you to win the electoral college," we're now stuck with the idiot telling everyone every chance he can get that he did the impossible through winning the electoral college. we're also stuck with his fixed idea that he must have won the popular vote as well, since he has taken the statements from his lackeys about the difficulty of him winning the electoral college as a sign that winning the electoral college was harder than winning the popular vote. To the idiot's mind, having done this thing that he was told was harder means that he must have necessarily also done the thing that they were trying to distract him from — and so if he won that "impossible" electoral college, he must have won the "easier" popular vote as well.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:56 PM on June 10, 2017 [57 favorites]
(I think one of the reasons why I'm so bad at deceptive underhanded tactics, even though I junk being deceptive and underhanded is on the whole more ethical than being forthcoming and honest, is that I'm bad at theory of mind — I have to continually remind myself that people think different things than me, and know different things than me, and believe different things than me, and so forth.
Trump though is remarkable for practicing theory of mind on, since his behavior is driven by very on-the-surface stimulus-response stuff — evencskmeone as mindblind as I am can read his mind, since he's never had occasion to hiding his thoughts, motivations, or plans.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:12 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump though is remarkable for practicing theory of mind on, since his behavior is driven by very on-the-surface stimulus-response stuff — evencskmeone as mindblind as I am can read his mind, since he's never had occasion to hiding his thoughts, motivations, or plans.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:12 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
BuzzFeed/Chris Geidner: Feds Succeed In Delaying Lawsuit Where Key Travel Ban Memo Is At Issue. Turns out Giuliani wrote a memo about the travel ban that the government's lawyers really don't want anybody to see. That's not a red flag or anything.
From Politico:
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on June 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
From Politico:
-- FIRST IN PLAYBOOK: FROM HADAS GOLD: KELLYANNE CONWAY was overheard Thursday night talking about her West Wing co-workers to fellow revelers at a party. Conway was having an off-the-record conversation with a group of reporters and other attendees at the British Embassy at their election-night watch party. She said President Donald Trump told her to “go out there and say ‘Jim Comey is going to have to wait and see about the tapes.’”Yes, someone at the party really did setup @kellyanneleaks, complete with pictures.
“I mean, that’s basically the same thing as ‘no comment,’” she said. Conway also mimicked Reince Priebus urging White House aides to stop leaking, and wondered aloud what Marc Short -- the legislative director -- does all day. She also said she is “the one catching the slings and arrows in the West Wing.” The source who heard Conway created a Twitter account about the evening, naming it @kellyanneleaks and posting photos and tweets from the event. Two other sources confirmed Conway’s remarks.
White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said Conway disputed the account, explaining that she is very close to Short. Spicer said Conway was not mocking Priebus, but rather reporters for palace intrigue stories “and how wrong they’ve been.” Spicer disputed that Conway had pushed back on the presidents request on how to comment about Comey, saying that she was simply explaining what the lawyers said the White House can say.
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on June 10, 2017 [17 favorites]
Spicer said Conway was
Stop. I got it. In five years this will likely become pretty normalized but here and now we understand this sentence cannot end with anything truthful or good.
The story about mimicking Obvious Anagram is troublingly humanizing as blatant lies to cover it up are mundane. These people, man.
I was really looking forward to bitching about how Hillary wasn't moving fast enough and kvetching over McConnell's telegraphed obstructionist bullshit. These fuckers robbed us.
posted by petebest at 1:49 PM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Stop. I got it. In five years this will likely become pretty normalized but here and now we understand this sentence cannot end with anything truthful or good.
The story about mimicking Obvious Anagram is troublingly humanizing as blatant lies to cover it up are mundane. These people, man.
I was really looking forward to bitching about how Hillary wasn't moving fast enough and kvetching over McConnell's telegraphed obstructionist bullshit. These fuckers robbed us.
posted by petebest at 1:49 PM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Combine these observations and you see that "it's almost impossible for you to win the electoral college" — a polite way to tell Trump that he wasn't favored to win — became transmogrified in his brain into "the electoral college is rigged for the democrats."
I figured it was just that he knew most college students were Democrats.
posted by contraption at 2:00 PM on June 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
I figured it was just that he knew most college students were Democrats.
posted by contraption at 2:00 PM on June 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
BuzzFeed/Chris Geidner: Feds Succeed In Delaying Lawsuit Where Key Travel Ban Memo Is At Issue. Turns out Giuliani wrote a memo about the travel ban that the government's lawyers really don't want anybody to see. That's not a red flag or anything.
From article: Roberts did, however, leave the door open to lifting or otherwise altering the stay order, writing, "Should circumstances change during the duration of the stay, Plaintiffs may move to lift the stay or for other appropriate relief."
Finally, she also made clear that the government officials who are being sued in the case must "preserve information in their possession, custody, or control that may be relevant to pending litigation" — including "evidence that predates January 20, 2017" and "information created, received or maintained in their personal capacities." To the extent information is in the hands of third parties, Roberts told plaintiffs they should "send preservation letters to the third parties at issue" — and could even seek issuance of subpoenas, if deemed necessary.
Perhaps, and this is pure armchair lawyering (I'm so not a lawyer), but perhaps, this is a good thing in that it says, "Preserve everything, you schmucks, and don't pretend we didn't tell you not to, because we did."
I hope I'm not wrong.
posted by saysthis at 2:02 PM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
From article: Roberts did, however, leave the door open to lifting or otherwise altering the stay order, writing, "Should circumstances change during the duration of the stay, Plaintiffs may move to lift the stay or for other appropriate relief."
Finally, she also made clear that the government officials who are being sued in the case must "preserve information in their possession, custody, or control that may be relevant to pending litigation" — including "evidence that predates January 20, 2017" and "information created, received or maintained in their personal capacities." To the extent information is in the hands of third parties, Roberts told plaintiffs they should "send preservation letters to the third parties at issue" — and could even seek issuance of subpoenas, if deemed necessary.
Perhaps, and this is pure armchair lawyering (I'm so not a lawyer), but perhaps, this is a good thing in that it says, "Preserve everything, you schmucks, and don't pretend we didn't tell you not to, because we did."
I hope I'm not wrong.
posted by saysthis at 2:02 PM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
NYT: Comey Buzz Muffles a Warning on Russia: ‘They Will Be Back’
Another important bit from here:
posted by zachlipton at 2:29 PM on June 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
Another important bit from here:
The recent leak of a classified N.S.A. document, for which a contractor has been arrested, provided evidence that the G.R.U. was trying to penetrate a company that provides election software to the states, perhaps to wreak havoc. That data may be useful in future races; there is already concern about this month’s special House election in Georgia, whose machines are considered vulnerable.The amount of chaos that will ensue if hacks, or even the fear of possible hacks, are used to cast doubt on the result in GA-06 is terrifying.
The Homeland Security Department is also looking at new evidence of computer code buried in the electrical power grid. Russia is believed to be behind two major attacks on Ukraine’s grid, and there are warnings that those techniques could also be turned on the United States.
posted by zachlipton at 2:29 PM on June 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
> Stop. I got it. ...here and now we understand this sentence cannot end with anything truthful or good.
This sounds like something the nuns who taught me would say - and I mean that in the best way possible. Bearing witness to gossip and rumor isn't an just intellectual weakness, it's moral failure. The polity's vulnerability to and general acceptance of propaganda, bullshit, fake news, American Kremlinology, etc highlights the length and breadth of a more general moral failure. We've had a steady diet of this shit and have developed a taste for it and I'm as guilty as anyone in sharing in the titillation. Our defense against falsehood isn't to be smart, it's to be good.
posted by klarck at 2:51 PM on June 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
This sounds like something the nuns who taught me would say - and I mean that in the best way possible. Bearing witness to gossip and rumor isn't an just intellectual weakness, it's moral failure. The polity's vulnerability to and general acceptance of propaganda, bullshit, fake news, American Kremlinology, etc highlights the length and breadth of a more general moral failure. We've had a steady diet of this shit and have developed a taste for it and I'm as guilty as anyone in sharing in the titillation. Our defense against falsehood isn't to be smart, it's to be good.
posted by klarck at 2:51 PM on June 10, 2017 [15 favorites]
"Is It Time For The US to Rein In The Presidency?"
It's been time for 20 years at least, but it's barely the fault of executive overreach -- much more of the problem should be laid at the feet of a dysfunctional, do-nothing Congress that has totally abdicated its duty to legislate, to govern, and to hold the executive to account. With nobody else to run the country and nobody holding it to account, of course the presidency is going to take over more and more functions, and with no overseers interesting in anything but imaginary Democratic scandals, of course the presidency is going to veer towards corruption and opaqueness.
Congress got fucking lucky that Obama was so transparent, honorable, and committed to constitutional norms. Because Congress has completely failed to uphold its 1/3 of the bargain for two decades, and look where we are now that we have a man who couldn't give two shits about American democracy in the presidency and a Congress run by cowards and do-nothings.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:19 PM on June 10, 2017 [65 favorites]
It's been time for 20 years at least, but it's barely the fault of executive overreach -- much more of the problem should be laid at the feet of a dysfunctional, do-nothing Congress that has totally abdicated its duty to legislate, to govern, and to hold the executive to account. With nobody else to run the country and nobody holding it to account, of course the presidency is going to take over more and more functions, and with no overseers interesting in anything but imaginary Democratic scandals, of course the presidency is going to veer towards corruption and opaqueness.
Congress got fucking lucky that Obama was so transparent, honorable, and committed to constitutional norms. Because Congress has completely failed to uphold its 1/3 of the bargain for two decades, and look where we are now that we have a man who couldn't give two shits about American democracy in the presidency and a Congress run by cowards and do-nothings.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:19 PM on June 10, 2017 [65 favorites]
Paul Kane, WaPo: One explanation for McCain’s grogginess: a 75,000-mile itinerary as ‘shadow’ diplomat
At times, it seemed as if the 2008 Republican presidential nominee was equating the two investigations — one that was closed almost a year ago, and another that seems to still be expanding. The line of questioning seemed to many to be an attempt to defend Trump.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:20 PM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
That certainly is not the role McCain is playing around the world.
More aptly, McCain is serving as a shadow secretary of state, trying to clean up or refute statements and positions that Trump has made.
“When Senator McCain is in the room, there’s just a different level of respect,” Sen. Christopher A. Coons (D-Del.), who traveled with McCain last week, said in an interview. “His mere presence reassures our allies in the Asia Pacific and the Northern Atlantic.”
Because Congress has completely failed to uphold its 1/3 of the bargain for two decades, and look where we are now that we have a man who couldn't give two shits about American democracy in the presidency and a Congress run by cowards and do-nothings.
Republicans have abdicated their responsibility. The lone period of Democratic control since 1994 saw Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, actually responsible budgets, and basically normally functioning government.
The other 18 years of Republican control saw fake scandals against Clinton, total abdication of oversight of the Bush the Lesser administration, and then fake scandals against Obama combined with brinksmanship threatening to destroy the federal government.
It's onesided abdication. Republicans are happy to live in a Republican dictatorship, and only interested in using the power of Congress to undermine and destroy Democratic administrations. There's no corresponding abdication and seditious intent in the other direction.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:27 PM on June 10, 2017 [54 favorites]
Republicans have abdicated their responsibility. The lone period of Democratic control since 1994 saw Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, actually responsible budgets, and basically normally functioning government.
The other 18 years of Republican control saw fake scandals against Clinton, total abdication of oversight of the Bush the Lesser administration, and then fake scandals against Obama combined with brinksmanship threatening to destroy the federal government.
It's onesided abdication. Republicans are happy to live in a Republican dictatorship, and only interested in using the power of Congress to undermine and destroy Democratic administrations. There's no corresponding abdication and seditious intent in the other direction.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:27 PM on June 10, 2017 [54 favorites]
So Sessions is sending a deputy in his place for the Appropriations Committees meeting, but will testify before Senate Intel.
Does anyone know if Sessions will be under oath for this?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:29 PM on June 10, 2017
Does anyone know if Sessions will be under oath for this?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:29 PM on June 10, 2017
It isn't clear. We don't know if it will be public or private. All we know at this point is it takes place on Tuesday.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:32 PM on June 10, 2017
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:32 PM on June 10, 2017
Does anyone know if Sessions will be under oath for this?
My understanding is that any oath taken before testifying is purely for show, as it's already illegal under penalty of perjury to make false statements to Congress.
posted by Freon at 3:32 PM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
My understanding is that any oath taken before testifying is purely for show, as it's already illegal under penalty of perjury to make false statements to Congress.
posted by Freon at 3:32 PM on June 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
“[McCain's] mere presence reassures our allies in the Asia Pacific and the Northern Atlantic.”
Uh. Have they looked at his actual voting record? Or are they just that desperate for reassuring illusions?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:38 PM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Uh. Have they looked at his actual voting record? Or are they just that desperate for reassuring illusions?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:38 PM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
“His mere presence reassures our allies in the Asia Pacific and the Northern Atlantic.”
I wish he'd do that for us. All I got were a bag of grave concerns and a rock.
posted by petebest at 3:41 PM on June 10, 2017 [42 favorites]
I wish he'd do that for us. All I got were a bag of grave concerns and a rock.
posted by petebest at 3:41 PM on June 10, 2017 [42 favorites]
McCain's reassurances to our allies should be about as good as his expressions of 'grave concerns' over Trump. Once again, the Liberal Press has bent over backwards to find something redeemable from some Republican. Seriously, their spines are more distorted than a female superhero in a cover pose.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:47 PM on June 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:47 PM on June 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
> It's onesided abdication. Republicans are happy to live in a Republican dictatorship, and only interested in using the power of Congress to undermine and destroy Democratic administrations. There's no corresponding abdication and seditious intent in the other direction.
Mmm, 82 Democratic votes in the House and 29 in the Senate in 2002 to cede warmaking powers to Bush in the Iraq AUMF. I calls that abdication of responsibility.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:57 PM on June 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
Mmm, 82 Democratic votes in the House and 29 in the Senate in 2002 to cede warmaking powers to Bush in the Iraq AUMF. I calls that abdication of responsibility.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:57 PM on June 10, 2017 [13 favorites]
With nobody else to run the country and nobody holding it to account, of course the presidency is going to take over more and more functions [...]
Not just the Presidency; things that in most countries would be determined by legislatures are in the USA left to the courts. Consequently, legislators get to play 20 Questions with matters of fundamental rights - can we ban abortion at 24 weeks? How about these types of abortions? What if we don't ban them, but close all the clinics?
I acknowledge that courts are sometimes ahead of legislatures (though only sometimes) and rights are thereby secured in advance, but I feel that this division of responsibility leads people to think that the courts can and will restrain the leopards who wish to eat people's faces, and that voters can therefore support the most ostentatiously ideological party without fear that their platform will be implemented. That's not a safe bet though: sometimes the courts don't (or can't) intervene, sometimes the legislature delays or ignores the courts' ruling. Rights in a democracy are fundamentally secured by the will of the people, and the American people's indolence and hypocrisy in this regard should be a matter of grave concern.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:59 PM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Not just the Presidency; things that in most countries would be determined by legislatures are in the USA left to the courts. Consequently, legislators get to play 20 Questions with matters of fundamental rights - can we ban abortion at 24 weeks? How about these types of abortions? What if we don't ban them, but close all the clinics?
I acknowledge that courts are sometimes ahead of legislatures (though only sometimes) and rights are thereby secured in advance, but I feel that this division of responsibility leads people to think that the courts can and will restrain the leopards who wish to eat people's faces, and that voters can therefore support the most ostentatiously ideological party without fear that their platform will be implemented. That's not a safe bet though: sometimes the courts don't (or can't) intervene, sometimes the legislature delays or ignores the courts' ruling. Rights in a democracy are fundamentally secured by the will of the people, and the American people's indolence and hypocrisy in this regard should be a matter of grave concern.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:59 PM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mmm, 82 Democratic votes in the House and 29 in the Senate in 2002 to cede warmaking powers to Bush in the Iraq AUMF. I calls that abdication of responsibility.
While I agree that we shouldn't let any of them off the hook, the vote across both houses was 518 to 1. (Barbara Lee speaks for me!)
The core divide in that vote wasn't by party, it was about fear and going along with the group vs. making an unpopular, solitary stand for what's right.
posted by Lexica at 4:10 PM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
While I agree that we shouldn't let any of them off the hook, the vote across both houses was 518 to 1. (Barbara Lee speaks for me!)
The core divide in that vote wasn't by party, it was about fear and going along with the group vs. making an unpopular, solitary stand for what's right.
posted by Lexica at 4:10 PM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Bearing in mind that the reason Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III has been summed to testify in front of the Senate Intel Committee is because James Comey said he had more to say about Sessions in the private meeting, my guess is that they want to Sessions to answer questions about his ties to Russia and they may already know some of the answers. I would think a savvy group like this would bring up the former perjury before he begins speaking. Perhaps, "We want to remind you that the penalty of lying to this committee is XYZ."
My feeling is that it will be a private meeting if they just want answers to their questions but a public meeting if they have already decided to turn public opinion against him.
If it's a public meeting and he starts pleading the fifth, game over.
If it's a public meeting and he lies to them and they know it, game over.
If it's a public meeting and he tells the truth, probably game over.
If it's a private meeting and he refuses to answer their questions truthfully? There will be more meetings with more people and eventually he will be caught in a web of his own lies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:38 PM on June 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
My feeling is that it will be a private meeting if they just want answers to their questions but a public meeting if they have already decided to turn public opinion against him.
If it's a public meeting and he starts pleading the fifth, game over.
If it's a public meeting and he lies to them and they know it, game over.
If it's a public meeting and he tells the truth, probably game over.
If it's a private meeting and he refuses to answer their questions truthfully? There will be more meetings with more people and eventually he will be caught in a web of his own lies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:38 PM on June 10, 2017 [23 favorites]
Mmm, 82 Democratic votes in the House and 29 in the Senate in 2002 to cede warmaking powers to Bush in the Iraq AUMF. I calls that abdication of responsibility.
As bad as the Iraq war vote looks in hindsight, that too was under a Republican unified Congress than could've demanded better intelligence oversight from the Bush administration, and instead fanned Bush admin lies about yellowcake and the smoking gun being a mushroom cloud. Republicans are simply not interested in exercising any powers of Congress while a Republican President is any office. They haven't been for 20 years.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:41 PM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
As bad as the Iraq war vote looks in hindsight, that too was under a Republican unified Congress than could've demanded better intelligence oversight from the Bush administration, and instead fanned Bush admin lies about yellowcake and the smoking gun being a mushroom cloud. Republicans are simply not interested in exercising any powers of Congress while a Republican President is any office. They haven't been for 20 years.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:41 PM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
If it looks like the bigwigs are starting to spill the beans everybody in the Trump orbit will be offering to testify to somebody
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:43 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:43 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Qatar update. Store shelves that previously held Saudi imported food, which began to go bare last week, were restocked today with Turkish goods,I.e. yogurt, milk, eggs. Noticeably absent are any Saudi products. Locals are hanging their hopes on sleepy Rexs statement that the blockade should end. That's all I've heard so far today.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:46 PM on June 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:46 PM on June 10, 2017 [33 favorites]
Steve Bannon will accost the guy behind the counter at the liquor store
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:46 PM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:46 PM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Update: WaPo has announced it will be a private session with Sessions. Too bad.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:51 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:51 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Locals are hanging their hopes on sleepy Rexs statement that the blockade should end.
Perhaps they should ask why the USA isn't flying supplies into that fancy airbase, if the USA is convinced the blockade should end. It's not like there wasn't precedent set in the Berlin airlift.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 4:54 PM on June 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Perhaps they should ask why the USA isn't flying supplies into that fancy airbase, if the USA is convinced the blockade should end. It's not like there wasn't precedent set in the Berlin airlift.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 4:54 PM on June 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Gaak! Hit post too soon.
WaPo Sessions won’t testify at congressional budget hearings but at Senate intelligence hearing instead
WaPo Sessions won’t testify at congressional budget hearings but at Senate intelligence hearing instead
essions was scheduled to testify before Congress on Tuesday for the first time since he was confirmed as attorney general in February. In light of former FBI director James B. Comey’s testimony last week, Sessions was expected to get many questions from lawmakers about his contacts with Russian officials during the 2016 election campaign.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:55 PM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sessions wrote to the two chairmen that he would testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday instead. A Justice Department official said that committee hearing probably will be closed to the public.
Because Congress has completely failed to uphold its 1/3 of the bargain for two decades
It goes back further than that. Congress has failed to control when we go to war since at least the Vietnam War. We haven't declared war on anyone since Bulgaria, Hungary, and Romania in June 1942.
Sometimes people say it would take too long to get a declaration of war, but FDR asked Congress to declare war on Japan the day after the attack on Pearl Harbor and the votes were done 40 minutes later. Germany and Italy declared war on the United States; Congress declared war on them later the same day.
There's the War Powers Resolution (1973), "requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30-day withdrawal period" without an AUMF, but presidents including both Obama and Trump recently have blown that off without consequence.
I really dislike the authoritarian reference to the president as "commander-in-chief." Under the Constitution the president is the commander-in-chief "of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States." I don't have a commander-in-chief.
Another problem is the way the presidency is presented during an election compared to the actual powers of the office. Every presidential candidate promises things that they can't do by themselves, but it's what people want.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:59 PM on June 10, 2017 [25 favorites]
Mod note: I am ruling against relitigating the Iraq War, I or II.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 6:23 PM on June 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 6:23 PM on June 10, 2017 [19 favorites]
...much more of the problem should be laid at the feet of a dysfunctional, do-nothing Congress that has totally abdicated its duty to legislate... Because Congress has completely failed to uphold its 1/3 of the bargain for two decades, and look where we are now that we have a man who couldn't give two shits about American democracy in the presidency and a Congress run by cowards and do-nothings.
This is just your daily reminder that Congress is currently about 90% of the way to repealing much of Obamacare, which could readily be shortly followed by massive tax cuts, and a whole host of other "productive" bills in the next year. They are doing everything in their power to be as productive as they can, including keeping most legislative activity as muted as possible for as long as possible to prevent us from blocking them until it's too late. "Do-nothing" is the greatest ambition of the opposition party for Congress, and we might as well admit that we are doing everything in our power right now to make sure Congress continues to be gridlocked and dysfunctional for another two years. It's not Congress's fault that whenever the other party holds even one of the House, Senate, or Presidency, often the best you can hope for is nothing.
posted by chortly at 6:32 PM on June 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is just your daily reminder that Congress is currently about 90% of the way to repealing much of Obamacare, which could readily be shortly followed by massive tax cuts, and a whole host of other "productive" bills in the next year. They are doing everything in their power to be as productive as they can, including keeping most legislative activity as muted as possible for as long as possible to prevent us from blocking them until it's too late. "Do-nothing" is the greatest ambition of the opposition party for Congress, and we might as well admit that we are doing everything in our power right now to make sure Congress continues to be gridlocked and dysfunctional for another two years. It's not Congress's fault that whenever the other party holds even one of the House, Senate, or Presidency, often the best you can hope for is nothing.
posted by chortly at 6:32 PM on June 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump’s Judicial Picks Are Keeping Republicans Happy—and Quiet
Judicial nominations are the one area where the Trump administration is “running like a fine-tuned machine,” as the president boasted in February. In fact, Trump’s team has far outstripped the efforts of his predecessor. By this date eight years ago, President Obama had made just four judicial nominations: Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor, and three nominations for the Court of Appeals.
Obama was totally unprepared and unwilling to retaliate against Repulibcan obstruction for the first 6 years of his term, many of the vacancies Trump is rushing to fill are direct results of Obama's failure to make judicial appointments a priority while having a majority. But this is the Trump pay off. Republicans are never going to turn against him while he's putting Republican judges on the bench at a breakneck pace. Because those judges will stand in the way of progress for 50 years, even when democraphics finally threaten to flip Texas, Trumpublican judges will be there to approve voter suppression laws, uphold the renewed Sessions drug wars, and sentence millions of people of color to life imprisonments for decades.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:35 PM on June 10, 2017 [49 favorites]
Judicial nominations are the one area where the Trump administration is “running like a fine-tuned machine,” as the president boasted in February. In fact, Trump’s team has far outstripped the efforts of his predecessor. By this date eight years ago, President Obama had made just four judicial nominations: Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor, and three nominations for the Court of Appeals.
Obama was totally unprepared and unwilling to retaliate against Repulibcan obstruction for the first 6 years of his term, many of the vacancies Trump is rushing to fill are direct results of Obama's failure to make judicial appointments a priority while having a majority. But this is the Trump pay off. Republicans are never going to turn against him while he's putting Republican judges on the bench at a breakneck pace. Because those judges will stand in the way of progress for 50 years, even when democraphics finally threaten to flip Texas, Trumpublican judges will be there to approve voter suppression laws, uphold the renewed Sessions drug wars, and sentence millions of people of color to life imprisonments for decades.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:35 PM on June 10, 2017 [49 favorites]
It's not like there wasn't precedent set in the Berlin airlift.
I think the current predisent is unaware of the predecent.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:08 PM on June 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
I think the current predisent is unaware of the predecent.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:08 PM on June 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
To be fair, a LOT of us were still surprised just how bad intention-ed the GOP have been all along as recently like February.
posted by VTX at 7:57 PM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by VTX at 7:57 PM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump's lawyer: "Consistent with that statement, the President never, in form or substance, directed or suggested that Mr. Comey stop investigating anyone, including suggesting that that Mr. Comey “let Flynn go.”"
Trump in the Rose Garden: "I didn’t say that."
Donald Trump Jr on FOX: "I'm hoping. You and I are friends, hey I hope this happens, but you got to do your job. That's what he told Comey."
So that's, uh, awkward.
posted by zachlipton at 7:59 PM on June 10, 2017 [45 favorites]
Trump in the Rose Garden: "I didn’t say that."
Donald Trump Jr on FOX: "I'm hoping. You and I are friends, hey I hope this happens, but you got to do your job. That's what he told Comey."
So that's, uh, awkward.
posted by zachlipton at 7:59 PM on June 10, 2017 [45 favorites]
Donald Trump Jr on FOX: "I'm hoping. You and I are friends, hey I hope this happens, but you got to do your job. That's what he told Comey."
Was Don Jr in the room? No? Then he's a lying sack.
posted by JackFlash at 8:36 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Was Don Jr in the room? No? Then he's a lying sack.
posted by JackFlash at 8:36 PM on June 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
So that's, uh, awkward.
It's only awkward if the sap's got shame.
posted by rhizome at 9:25 PM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's only awkward if the sap's got shame.
posted by rhizome at 9:25 PM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
So something about how this Comey business could go:
We can safely assume that Comey and Mueller are working together and that Mueller knows everything Comey knows, which is more than we know. Comey is pissed but he is also scared for institutional survival of both the FBI and the United States. Mueller, former FBI director, is certainly in total agreement. Regardless of their politics, they do not like DJT nor do they trust him or his people to be running the US government. What can they do to ensure this rotten mess comes falling down with maximum effectiveness?
1. Provoke Trump and all the Trumplings to spout increasingly ridiculous lies to defend themselves.
2. Create a large enough scandal that Congressional committees are obligated to drag said Trumplings in under oath to defend their ridiculous statements, or at least their boss.
3. Ensure that the scandal continues to widen and that Congressional Committees continue to operate by strategically leaking information.
4. Force anyone who perjures themselves to give new information if they want leniency.
5. As soon as Mueller gets all the information, arrest everyone.
Basically, if in a few weeks things start to calm down, with Republicans talking about how we need to get back to the business of governing or some shit, and suddenly Comey pops back up with some startling new revelations... then Donald Trump and anyone who has ever lied for him ought to be very, very worried.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:29 PM on June 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
We can safely assume that Comey and Mueller are working together and that Mueller knows everything Comey knows, which is more than we know. Comey is pissed but he is also scared for institutional survival of both the FBI and the United States. Mueller, former FBI director, is certainly in total agreement. Regardless of their politics, they do not like DJT nor do they trust him or his people to be running the US government. What can they do to ensure this rotten mess comes falling down with maximum effectiveness?
1. Provoke Trump and all the Trumplings to spout increasingly ridiculous lies to defend themselves.
2. Create a large enough scandal that Congressional committees are obligated to drag said Trumplings in under oath to defend their ridiculous statements, or at least their boss.
3. Ensure that the scandal continues to widen and that Congressional Committees continue to operate by strategically leaking information.
4. Force anyone who perjures themselves to give new information if they want leniency.
5. As soon as Mueller gets all the information, arrest everyone.
Basically, if in a few weeks things start to calm down, with Republicans talking about how we need to get back to the business of governing or some shit, and suddenly Comey pops back up with some startling new revelations... then Donald Trump and anyone who has ever lied for him ought to be very, very worried.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:29 PM on June 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
My fever dream is that Comey and Mueller are setting perjury traps for the Trumpistas. They, of course, know more than we do. My hope is that they not only know more than we do but can prove more than we know. And are holding that information very close to the vest. Once they get the Trumpers (and, god willing, Trump) under oath they ask them about the stuff they can prove... and if anyone lies, boom, they're done.
posted by Justinian at 9:59 PM on June 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 9:59 PM on June 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
I love the idea of 'boom, they're done.' but I have to say, I'm not buying it. So they perjure themselves in front of Congress. Then what? (I'm not being snarky, I legitimately don't know) With the Republicans in power, who's going to censure them? It's not a court of law. They won't get jailed for it..well at least DJT won't get jailed. Nixon resigned because, as paranoid as he was, he's understood when it was time to bail out. I don't think Trump has that sense of self-preservation, especially if it means admitting he was wrong.
posted by gofargogo at 10:07 PM on June 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by gofargogo at 10:07 PM on June 10, 2017 [26 favorites]
I love the idea of 'boom, they're done.' but I have to say, I'm not buying it. So they perjure themselves in front of Congress.
Not in front of Congress, in front of Mueller and the FBI.
posted by Justinian at 10:17 PM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not in front of Congress, in front of Mueller and the FBI.
posted by Justinian at 10:17 PM on June 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Republicans are never going to turn against him while he's putting Republican judges on the bench at a breakneck pace.
Yeah, this is the thing that suggests to me he's working as a distraction while the party gets its appointment jollies. Roll back some laws that'll take moving Hecken and Earth to put back into place. Fucking shit up from the inside, Trump may just be a change agent.
posted by rhizome at 10:24 PM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeah, this is the thing that suggests to me he's working as a distraction while the party gets its appointment jollies. Roll back some laws that'll take moving Hecken and Earth to put back into place. Fucking shit up from the inside, Trump may just be a change agent.
posted by rhizome at 10:24 PM on June 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Ok, partly sarcastic, but see Brexit, November 2016, UK snap election this week, this entire past year, etc.
In the Dune Universe the chapter on this particular "era" would be something like:
The cream always rises to the top.
- Unknown
Uhmmm...
- Millions of people
posted by juiceCake at 10:40 PM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
In the Dune Universe the chapter on this particular "era" would be something like:
The cream always rises to the top.
- Unknown
Uhmmm...
- Millions of people
posted by juiceCake at 10:40 PM on June 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
I love the idea of 'boom, they're done.' but I have to say, I'm not buying it. So they perjure themselves in front of Congress. Then what? (I'm not being snarky, I legitimately don't know) With the Republicans in power, who's going to censure them? It's not a court of law.
Well, it could be.
The analysis that suggests Trump won't be impeached by a Republican congress no matter what he's guilty of as long as he's useful seems pretty solid to me.
But apparently it's not a settled question whether the POTUS can't be brought up on criminal charges. So perhaps that's possible?
If not, I suppose we go into the 2018 election cycle with the country knowing that Trump and administration are actual under-oath liars, though it's not obvious to whom this would be substantial news.
posted by wildblueyonder at 11:05 PM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, it could be.
The analysis that suggests Trump won't be impeached by a Republican congress no matter what he's guilty of as long as he's useful seems pretty solid to me.
But apparently it's not a settled question whether the POTUS can't be brought up on criminal charges. So perhaps that's possible?
If not, I suppose we go into the 2018 election cycle with the country knowing that Trump and administration are actual under-oath liars, though it's not obvious to whom this would be substantial news.
posted by wildblueyonder at 11:05 PM on June 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Republicans are covering for treason. They're going along with an attack on our democracy and our institutions. What makes anyone think they give a damn about perjury?
It's still a matter of actually getting free and fair elections in 2018 and actually getting enough wins to force Congress to change hands.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:25 PM on June 10, 2017 [30 favorites]
It's still a matter of actually getting free and fair elections in 2018 and actually getting enough wins to force Congress to change hands.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:25 PM on June 10, 2017 [30 favorites]
Mueller has prosecutorial authority. He can directly prosecute anyone who perjures themselves, up to and possibly including the President though that last point is not clear.
posted by Justinian at 11:31 PM on June 10, 2017
posted by Justinian at 11:31 PM on June 10, 2017
My fever dream is that Comey and Mueller are setting perjury traps for the Trumpistas
This is what all the talking heads were saying last week so I think there's a good possibility that's the case.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:34 PM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is what all the talking heads were saying last week so I think there's a good possibility that's the case.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:34 PM on June 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not in front of Congress, in front of Mueller and the FBI.
depose them sons a bitches!...ok, now seriously, we all know this is DOA and 2018 is our shot?
posted by j_curiouser at 12:08 AM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
depose them sons a bitches!...ok, now seriously, we all know this is DOA and 2018 is our shot?
posted by j_curiouser at 12:08 AM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Something about that link from upthread regarding the DOJ arguing that Trump can accept foreign payments without violating the emoluments clause has been nagging at me all day - this really feels like a situation where the DOJ should not be acting like his personal lawyers. Yes, the emoluments clause applies to Trump as president, but this isn't just about legal questions about the office of president, it's also about his personal business. It's a pretty shitty situation we have where the lines are blurred legally on this to the point that you get the DOJ acting like in-house counsel for the Trump Organization. Really there needs to be a long term fix here to prevent this in the future: a law that forces an incoming president to set up a qualifying blind trust between election and inauguration or the assets in question are automatically frozen for the term of office.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:27 AM on June 11, 2017 [60 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 12:27 AM on June 11, 2017 [60 favorites]
Since we don't get the benefit of Jeff Sessions' testimony or SNL's skewering of it, here's Kate McKinnon's eerily hilarious Jess Sessions and Alex Moffit's Al Franken on Weekend Update last season.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:36 AM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 12:36 AM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
depose them sons a bitches!...ok, now seriously, we all know this is DOA and 2018 is our shot?
You don't think Mueller's going to do a real investigation? I think that's quite wrong.
But I expect it will last past 2018 so, yeah, it's more of a long term thing.
posted by Justinian at 1:23 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
You don't think Mueller's going to do a real investigation? I think that's quite wrong.
But I expect it will last past 2018 so, yeah, it's more of a long term thing.
posted by Justinian at 1:23 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
The cynical nature of Trump's inner circle is what's going to bring him down. He already has trouble filling jobs, is known as a screamer and abusive boss, happily throws his people under the bus any time it serves him, and deliberately creates power battles between his underlyings (which is part of why he did well in reality TV).
So you've got a bunch of selfish, craven people with no ideological commitment to anything besides getting rich and enjoying power. The moment they are facing a jail sentence (and the loss of all their money and power), they are going to start singing like that one drunk guy at karaoke. There is going to be revelation after revelation to undermine public trust, and a steady procession of officials off to prison.
Do you really think Trump could hang tough and maintain mental balance through that?
posted by msalt at 1:37 AM on June 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
So you've got a bunch of selfish, craven people with no ideological commitment to anything besides getting rich and enjoying power. The moment they are facing a jail sentence (and the loss of all their money and power), they are going to start singing like that one drunk guy at karaoke. There is going to be revelation after revelation to undermine public trust, and a steady procession of officials off to prison.
Do you really think Trump could hang tough and maintain mental balance through that?
posted by msalt at 1:37 AM on June 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
no, I wasn't clear: the law is onto something, but it's going to take a looong time to unwind it. i think ratfucker and mueller are digging. remember the wait for fitzmas? so i still stand by '18.
posted by j_curiouser at 2:33 AM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by j_curiouser at 2:33 AM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
So you've got a bunch of selfish, craven people with no ideological commitment to anything besides getting rich and enjoying power. The moment they are facing a jail sentence (and the loss of all their money and power), they are going to start singing like that one drunk guy at karaoke. There is going to be revelation after revelation to undermine public trust, and a steady procession of officials off to prison.
Yes, this. While I understand the pessimism expressed just up above, and agree that investigations and prosecutions take a long time, two things give me some comfort with this: the reliable information that's already out there, what we know Trump and his people have done, is already enough to remove all of them from office/positions, and send at least a few to prison. But that takes time, and should, and that's frustrating ('we ALREADY KNOW that he did x or y, how is he still president??'); but really, what we already know is plenty damning, with much more clearly still to come (I, for one, want to see the Mercers nailed for their part in all this via, e.g., Cambridge Analytica).
Secondly, one has to account for the massive accelerant that Trump himself is for all of this. With each revelation and development he has made it worse, revealed more, transparently lied more, reacted terribly, and so on. Trump himself is helping to ensure this all will unfold much more expeditiously than we expect.
So keep fighting Congressional Republicans but also keep heart: there will be criminal charges for many of our favorite players and even if Republicans move some odious legislation all the way forward, the building wave for 2018 will pack the House (if we all keep on working on it) with much more reasonable people.
Optimistic, certainly, but not wildly so, I don't think. Trump is his own worst enemy, and that's one of the very few reliable things I've found here in Reality 2.0.
posted by LooseFilter at 3:18 AM on June 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yes, this. While I understand the pessimism expressed just up above, and agree that investigations and prosecutions take a long time, two things give me some comfort with this: the reliable information that's already out there, what we know Trump and his people have done, is already enough to remove all of them from office/positions, and send at least a few to prison. But that takes time, and should, and that's frustrating ('we ALREADY KNOW that he did x or y, how is he still president??'); but really, what we already know is plenty damning, with much more clearly still to come (I, for one, want to see the Mercers nailed for their part in all this via, e.g., Cambridge Analytica).
Secondly, one has to account for the massive accelerant that Trump himself is for all of this. With each revelation and development he has made it worse, revealed more, transparently lied more, reacted terribly, and so on. Trump himself is helping to ensure this all will unfold much more expeditiously than we expect.
So keep fighting Congressional Republicans but also keep heart: there will be criminal charges for many of our favorite players and even if Republicans move some odious legislation all the way forward, the building wave for 2018 will pack the House (if we all keep on working on it) with much more reasonable people.
Optimistic, certainly, but not wildly so, I don't think. Trump is his own worst enemy, and that's one of the very few reliable things I've found here in Reality 2.0.
posted by LooseFilter at 3:18 AM on June 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Trump is his own worst enemy
His most successful enemy, certainly.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:03 AM on June 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
His most successful enemy, certainly.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:03 AM on June 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
If there is any truth to those rumors about Sessions and Trump being on the outs, I imagine those conversations have gone like this: "Donald, your part in this plan is to sign where I tell you to sign and keep your goddamn mouth shut. You are ruining everything." "Shut up Beauregard. My mouth is what made me president. You are just an underling. I've been thinking about firing you." "I made you president, Donald. And if I go down I will bring you and your whole family down with me. You will be applying for food stamps, Donald. They will take your name off those buildings. You will have nothing. You are nothing without me." "Fuck off, Beauregard. I'll have you arrested." "For the love of God, Donald, just stop tweeting."
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:54 AM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:54 AM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
The analysis that suggests Trump won't be impeached by a Republican congress no matter what he's guilty of as long as he's useful seems pretty solid to me.
Agreed, and yet it relies on those racist soccer moms and Randian IT weasels to be smart enough to understand the situation *and* for them to look at themselves in the mirror or run through inner monologue acknowledging thier complicity in hollowing out What America Stands For. Yeah, they've been doing it for 50 years already but always behind something sturdy, something "respectable" enough to fall back on. Let's look at the hits of yesteryear:
"I support trickle-down because I are economic smart" (The Faux Buckleys)
"Jeezus loves the zygotes and hates the women" (Jerry Falwell & the Jim Bakker Singers)
"Kick the other country's ass because 9/11" (Toby Keith's Alcoholic Foxes)
All solid turd gold in their own right but this - this Trump stuff, I mean, is that even politics? Racist mom and your golf shop's Windows administrator guy are licking that barrel pretty clean. Maybe they always will, but that depends in large part on what the TV God tell us.
posted by petebest at 5:37 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Agreed, and yet it relies on those racist soccer moms and Randian IT weasels to be smart enough to understand the situation *and* for them to look at themselves in the mirror or run through inner monologue acknowledging thier complicity in hollowing out What America Stands For. Yeah, they've been doing it for 50 years already but always behind something sturdy, something "respectable" enough to fall back on. Let's look at the hits of yesteryear:
"I support trickle-down because I are economic smart" (The Faux Buckleys)
"Jeezus loves the zygotes and hates the women" (Jerry Falwell & the Jim Bakker Singers)
"Kick the other country's ass because 9/11" (Toby Keith's Alcoholic Foxes)
All solid turd gold in their own right but this - this Trump stuff, I mean, is that even politics? Racist mom and your golf shop's Windows administrator guy are licking that barrel pretty clean. Maybe they always will, but that depends in large part on what the TV God tell us.
posted by petebest at 5:37 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
And now, a look forward at the week of Gummit Chicanery courtesy of Govtrack.us:
17 bills and resolutions are on the House and Senate calendars for the coming days.
Jun 5, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2353: Strengthening Career and Technical Education for the 21st Century Act
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 338: To promote a 21st century energy and manufacturing workforce.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 446: To extend the deadline for commencement of construction of a hydroelectric project.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 447: To extend the deadline for commencement of construction of a hydroelectric project.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 723: Energy Savings Through Public-Private Partnerships Act of 2017
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 627: Streamlining Energy Efficiency for Schools Act of 2017
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 951: To extend the deadline for commencement of construction of a hydroelectric project.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 1215: Protecting Access to Care Act of 2017
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 1109: To amend section 203 of the Federal Power Act.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2122: To reinstate and extend the deadline for commencement of construction of a hydroelectric project involving Jennings Randolph Dam.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2274: HYPE Act
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2292: To extend a project of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission involving the Cannonsville Dam.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2372: VETERAN Act
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
S. 1094: Department of Veterans Affairs Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act of 2017
This bill passed in the Senate on June 6, 2017 and goes to the House next for consideration.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2457: J. Bennett Johnston Waterway Hydropower Extension Act of 2017
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2579: Broader Options for Americans Act
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2581: Verify First Act
posted by petebest at 5:49 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
17 bills and resolutions are on the House and Senate calendars for the coming days.
Jun 5, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2353: Strengthening Career and Technical Education for the 21st Century Act
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 338: To promote a 21st century energy and manufacturing workforce.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 446: To extend the deadline for commencement of construction of a hydroelectric project.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 447: To extend the deadline for commencement of construction of a hydroelectric project.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 723: Energy Savings Through Public-Private Partnerships Act of 2017
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 627: Streamlining Energy Efficiency for Schools Act of 2017
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 951: To extend the deadline for commencement of construction of a hydroelectric project.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 1215: Protecting Access to Care Act of 2017
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 1109: To amend section 203 of the Federal Power Act.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2122: To reinstate and extend the deadline for commencement of construction of a hydroelectric project involving Jennings Randolph Dam.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2274: HYPE Act
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2292: To extend a project of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission involving the Cannonsville Dam.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2372: VETERAN Act
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
S. 1094: Department of Veterans Affairs Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act of 2017
This bill passed in the Senate on June 6, 2017 and goes to the House next for consideration.
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2457: J. Bennett Johnston Waterway Hydropower Extension Act of 2017
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2579: Broader Options for Americans Act
Jun 12, 2017
(week of)
House
H.R. 2581: Verify First Act
posted by petebest at 5:49 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Donald Trump's state visit to Britain put on hold (Grauniad)
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:53 AM on June 11, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:53 AM on June 11, 2017 [50 favorites]
Good going, Brits -- keep it up!
posted by AwkwardPause at 6:00 AM on June 11, 2017
posted by AwkwardPause at 6:00 AM on June 11, 2017
What the AP’s Collaboration With the Nazis Should Teach Us About Reporting the News
Is it better to cooperate with dictatorships and authoritarian regimes and tell half the story with hands tied—or not tell the story at all?
by Matti Friedman, June 5, 2017
posted by XMLicious at 6:01 AM on June 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
Is it better to cooperate with dictatorships and authoritarian regimes and tell half the story with hands tied—or not tell the story at all?
by Matti Friedman, June 5, 2017
A paper last year by the German historian Harriet Scharnberg titled “The A and P of Propaganda” [in German, Google Translate] and published in Studies in Contemporary History makes the case that beginning in the mid-1930s, the AP’s photo office in Germany made compromise after compromise to keep reporting under Nazi rule, obeying successive orders from the Hitler regime until it ended up as a Nazi information arm in all but name. Remaining in Berlin after its competitors departed in 1935 allowed the AP to serve as a “key channel” for German propaganda, she wrote, an arrangement the New York-based agency was eager to preserve—even if it meant removing all of its Jewish photographers in keeping with Nazi race laws, for example, and even if it meant issuing a statement to the official SS magazine swearing that the photo bureau was pure Aryan.(Note that Tablet Magazine is a politically conservative publication in which you will also find such pieces as “The Arab-ization of American Politics” from January and a more recent screed by the same author expanding on the same themes and declaring the implications of the Comey testimony and any suggestion of improper interactions between the Trump campaign and Russia to be kooky crazy “Middle Eastern-style conspiracy-theory madness” and psychological compensation for the Clinton loss... y'know, the same essential story pitched by such reliable narrators as Vladimir Putin and Trump himself.)
...
The historian’s report was damaging enough to warrant a fascinating and deeply researched counter-report from the AP on its wartime record, published last month. The factual findings of the AP’s own report do much to amplify Scharnberg’s indictment, and in the right hands could have been an admirable exercise in self-criticism. But the AP chose to present its findings with a defensive tone that suggests that while the news organization has unearthed a great deal of information, editors there remain confused about what it all means.
Yes, we learn, the AP cooperated with the purging of Jews when competitors like The New York Times refused to accept Nazi dictates and left—but it cooperated only after “resisting,” and it turned out to be for the Jews’ own good: “AP helped them resettle safely to other countries, which allowed all of them to survive the Holocaust that soon followed.” Yes, the AP’s photo office did cooperate on a propaganda project with Das Schwarz Korps, the official SS magazine—but we should know that AP executives were “distressed” by this.
Did the AP protest the use of its photos in propaganda that fueled genocide? “To date, no records have surfaced to suggest AP objected to such practices at the time,” the report admits. But—yes, this admission is actually followed by a “but”—we should be reassured that rules about handling such cases were changed in the 1960s. Had the AP protested at the time, the report explains, it could have lost access in Germany, and moreover: “Termination of the photo service going to German subscribers would also have cost AP some revenue.” (An American in charge of the photo operation in Germany, we learn, considered the SS magazine “a good customer.”)
...
In 2017, consumers of news are beset as never before with a blizzard of disinformation. There is no alternative to mainstream news sources. No Twitter feed is going to replace The New York Times or the AP. And yet much information published in established sources is unreliable, sometimes for the reasons discussed here. Many flaws and misunderstandings have crept into journalistic practice over time, like the idea that it’s permissible to collaborate with dictatorships and obfuscate about it, or that telling half the story is better than leveling with readers and admitting that your hands are tied. This renders journalism vulnerable to the claim that there is no “fake news” because it’s all fake, anyway.
The people in charge at the AP were wrong in 1935. It matters today because they and their competitors are wrong now in similar ways. It’s a good time for journalists to think deeply about the ways the profession has failed—80 years ago, two years ago, last week—and about ways to better serve a world that badly needs us to do our job.
posted by XMLicious at 6:01 AM on June 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
He's awake and tweeting:
Donald J. Trump
I believe the James Comey leaks will be far more prevalent than anyone ever thought possible. Totally illegal? Very 'cowardly!'
Could someone explain what his staffer means by prevalent in this context? Are they trying to make it seem he's behind a ton more "leaks" beyond just discussing his personal recollections and memos? Prevalent doesn't make sense to me here, like it's someone trying out a word they haven't used before, but maybe I'm confused.
posted by bluecore at 6:03 AM on June 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
Donald J. Trump
I believe the James Comey leaks will be far more prevalent than anyone ever thought possible. Totally illegal? Very 'cowardly!'
Could someone explain what his staffer means by prevalent in this context? Are they trying to make it seem he's behind a ton more "leaks" beyond just discussing his personal recollections and memos? Prevalent doesn't make sense to me here, like it's someone trying out a word they haven't used before, but maybe I'm confused.
posted by bluecore at 6:03 AM on June 11, 2017 [24 favorites]
Donald Trump has told Theresa May in a phone call he does not want to go ahead with a state visit to Britain until the British public supports him coming.
So I guess that means he won't be visiting Britain for the duration of his Presidency. Still, he'll always be welcome in Saudi Arabia.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:07 AM on June 11, 2017 [38 favorites]
So I guess that means he won't be visiting Britain for the duration of his Presidency. Still, he'll always be welcome in Saudi Arabia.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:07 AM on June 11, 2017 [38 favorites]
They call him Mr. Brexit.
posted by box at 6:10 AM on June 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by box at 6:10 AM on June 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
Could someone explain what his staffer means by prevalent in this context? Are they trying to make it seem he's behind a ton more "leaks" beyond just discussing his personal recollections and memos? Prevalent doesn't make sense to me here, like it's someone trying out a word they haven't used before, but maybe I'm confused.
I'm going with they meant something like 'relevant'.
posted by Jalliah at 6:11 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm going with they meant something like 'relevant'.
posted by Jalliah at 6:11 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Could someone explain what his staffer means by prevalent in this context?
Suggest you go to one of Trump's must-watch shows, Fox & Friends. I think you will find the answer there.
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:13 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Suggest you go to one of Trump's must-watch shows, Fox & Friends. I think you will find the answer there.
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:13 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is one time where I'm certain that the Comey leaker talking point is a distraction and at least in the beginning of it's use Donald does not believe or think it's true. However at some point like with a lot of things he starts saying in order to spin things he ends up really and truly believing it.
I realized that I saw my cousin go through this process while living with him years ago. Drove me bananas until I figured out what was going on. Not surprisingly it ends up he has a personality thing (can't remember the name) which is in the family of narcissitic behavior.
posted by Jalliah at 6:17 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think by prevalent he means something like numerous.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:20 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:20 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Cowardly. Good call, Donny. That's a sure-fire argument there.
posted by petebest at 6:23 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by petebest at 6:23 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Holy crap I just realized he thinks in tweets.
Ay yi yi, I didn't expect it to get worse in that direction. Sad!
posted by petebest at 6:27 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ay yi yi, I didn't expect it to get worse in that direction. Sad!
posted by petebest at 6:27 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Brave Sir Donny stayed away.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:40 AM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:40 AM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Ah: "prevalent" - all leaks come from Jim Comey. One-size-fits-all. You found out about that seekrit fuckery? Comey! Making me (and therefore, America) look bad? Comey! All these very bad fake news things about me (most true) = Comey!
So prevalent. Totally illegal.? 'Cowardly' and poopy too. Myeah. Also Sad.!
posted by petebest at 6:41 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
So prevalent. Totally illegal.? 'Cowardly' and poopy too. Myeah. Also Sad.!
posted by petebest at 6:41 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
And now, a look forward at the week of Gummit Chicanery courtesy of Govtrack.us:
How many of those do the complete opposite of the bill title?
posted by Talez at 6:46 AM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
How many of those do the complete opposite of the bill title?
posted by Talez at 6:46 AM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
the James Comey leaks will be far more prevalent than anyone ever thought possible
Could be some version of prevfefealent.
Or he means that some hypothesized upcoming information about some new James Comey leaks will inundate the earth moar muchly than anyone (except his own foresightful self) would ever have thought possible. We do have the popcorn ready, Donny Two-Scoops, keep us posted.
posted by Namlit at 6:54 AM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Could be some version of prevfefealent.
Or he means that some hypothesized upcoming information about some new James Comey leaks will inundate the earth moar muchly than anyone (except his own foresightful self) would ever have thought possible. We do have the popcorn ready, Donny Two-Scoops, keep us posted.
posted by Namlit at 6:54 AM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
What makes me sad is that, after Trumps real-life adaptation (including typos and .sad), the old Doge meme has become even less funny that it ever was. I could add, prevalently so.
posted by Namlit at 6:57 AM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Namlit at 6:57 AM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
the James Comey leaks will be far more prevalent than anyone ever thought possible
"Comey has been out to get me from the beginning and has been behind all/most/many intelligence leaks of classified info."
Just part of the retaliation-distraction-smear job; expect to start hearing this echoed by GOP Congress-minions within a day or two.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:02 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Comey has been out to get me from the beginning and has been behind all/most/many intelligence leaks of classified info."
Just part of the retaliation-distraction-smear job; expect to start hearing this echoed by GOP Congress-minions within a day or two.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:02 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Tim Adams, Guardian, has a wide-ranging and well-written interview with Naomi Klein: ‘Trump is an idiot, but don’t underestimate how good he is at that’
“I am not saying Russia is not important,” she says, “but Trump’s base is very well defended against that: ‘the liberal media is out to get him’, ‘it’s fake news’, and all the rest.” While we are all clicking and fixing our eyes on the never-ending Trump show – the handshake with Macron, the hand-holding with May – he is, she argues, enacting policies that are systematically moving wealth upwards, and crucial questions are not being asked loudly enough: Is your social security safe? Is your healthcare safe? Are your wages going to be driven down? “He benefits so much from that focus away from economics.”posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:04 AM on June 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
Klein has not been surprised how, at a time of economic downturn and mass migration, nationalism has once again proved such a potent force in successive elections in the west. She makes the argument that the only thing that can rival those forces of white nationalism and xenophobia is a justice-based economic populism on the left. What Hillary Clinton’s campaign proved, she suggests, is that when you run a centrist free-market candidate against “fake populism” it’s a recipe for disaster.
Doesn’t the election of Macron in France prove that pragmatic centrism is still a viable force if the right candidate emerges to express it?
Klein believes the jury is out on that question. “The fact is Le Pen did better in that election than she ever should have. I think the issue is what happens if Macron governs with the kind of austerity that has fuelled these forces, and his shine wears off? What happens the next time around?” The analogy that Le Pen equals Donald Trump is not exact, she says. “It is more Le Pen equals David Duke [former leader of the Ku Klux Klan]. If David Duke got the percentage of the vote that Le Pen got, we would be terrified, as well we should be.”
Odds on Donnie J going in front of a Senate committee?
I am all out of odds.
/couldn't resist
posted by spitbull at 7:04 AM on June 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
I am all out of odds.
/couldn't resist
posted by spitbull at 7:04 AM on June 11, 2017 [26 favorites]
One-size-fits-all. You found out about that seekrit fuckery? Comey.
Tall blonde in sultry wig with unconvincing accent peeing on hotel bed ? Comey. [yeah, fake]
posted by puddledork at 7:08 AM on June 11, 2017
Tall blonde in sultry wig with unconvincing accent peeing on hotel bed ? Comey. [yeah, fake]
posted by puddledork at 7:08 AM on June 11, 2017
Yes, keep insulting the good friend of the man investigating you. Bold move, Cotton.
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Apparently, they're a little sensitive to public outcry. Who knew?
Donald Trump's state visit to Britain put on hold
Donald Trump's state visit to Britain put on hold
Donald Trump has told Theresa May in a phone call he does not want to go ahead with a state visit to Britain until the British public supports him coming.posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:30 AM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
The US president said he did not want to come if there were large-scale protests and his remarks in effect put the visit on hold for some time.
Klein believes the jury is out on that question. “The fact is Le Pen did better in that election than she ever should have."
Ding ding ding ding ding.
Her father went down 25-75 to Chriac of all people. Going down 34-66 to someone who was, by all measurable metrics, better than Chirac should be scaring the shit out of centrists and technocrats.
posted by Talez at 7:31 AM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ding ding ding ding ding.
Her father went down 25-75 to Chriac of all people. Going down 34-66 to someone who was, by all measurable metrics, better than Chirac should be scaring the shit out of centrists and technocrats.
posted by Talez at 7:31 AM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ah: "prevalent" - all leaks come from Jim Comey.
Yes. This is what the Wall Street Journal op ed page was saying yesterday.
All About James Comey
What his Thursday testimony made clear is how much he has damaged the country.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:31 AM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yes. This is what the Wall Street Journal op ed page was saying yesterday.
All About James Comey
What his Thursday testimony made clear is how much he has damaged the country.
What if all the painful drama over Donald Trump and Mike Flynn and Hillary Clinton and Russians wasn’t really due to Donald Trump or Mike Flynn or Hillary Clinton or Russians? What if the national spectacle the country has endured comes down to one man, James Comey ?This is going to be the party line.
...
By the end, something had become clear. Mr. Comey was not merely a player in the past year’s palaver. He was the player.
...
It was Mr. Comey who launched an investigation into Russian meddling last July and expanded it to look for possible collusion with the Trump campaign. That may well have been warranted. Yet before the election his FBI had leaked this to the press, casting an aura of illegitimacy on a new president and feeding conspiracy theories based on, in Mr. Comey’s words, “nonsense” reporting.
Mr. Comey could have spared us this by simply stating, as he acknowledged Thursday, that Mr. Trump wasn’t under investigation. One could argue he had a duty to explain, given that he’d taken the unusual step of confirming the probe, and given the leaks from his FBI and the flood of fake news that resulted. But no. James Comey judged that (in this case, at least) it would be improper to speak out. So we’ve had all Russia all the time.
Moreover, it was Mr. Comey who had the discussions with President Trump that he now describes as compromising. On Thursday he claimed to have felt that Mr. Trump was directing him to end the Flynn investigation, even as he simultaneously admitted that Mr. Trump’s words (“I hope”) expressed no such order. He said he had been deeply uncomfortable that Mr. Trump wasn’t following protocol for dealing with an FBI director.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:31 AM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
prevalent
You see these head-scratchers all the time when copyediting. It's what happens when someone plugs a perfectly useful but perhaps bland word into a thesaurus and uses the result without understanding. (He was probably going for something like "plentiful.")
posted by salix at 7:32 AM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
You see these head-scratchers all the time when copyediting. It's what happens when someone plugs a perfectly useful but perhaps bland word into a thesaurus and uses the result without understanding. (He was probably going for something like "plentiful.")
posted by salix at 7:32 AM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
On the other hand, this is President Parrot we're talking about, so who on Fox used the word "prevalent" around that time?
posted by salix at 7:41 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by salix at 7:41 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, the WSJ is right about one thing. Comey should've revealed the Trump-Russia investigation before the election. Like say, in July. And again in October.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:44 AM on June 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:44 AM on June 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Had the AP protested at the time, the report explains, it could have lost access in Germany, and moreover: “Termination of the photo service going to German subscribers would also have cost AP some revenue.”
I don't mean to bring up an old derail, but I think it is worth pointing out that this is another example of the tension that can arise between journalistic ethics and the profit motive in for-profit journalism. This is not a new problem.
posted by biogeo at 7:49 AM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't mean to bring up an old derail, but I think it is worth pointing out that this is another example of the tension that can arise between journalistic ethics and the profit motive in for-profit journalism. This is not a new problem.
posted by biogeo at 7:49 AM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
The US president said he did not want to come if there were large-scale protests and his remarks in effect put the visit on hold for some time.
That appears to limit his foreign travel to countries where public protest is illegal.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:55 AM on June 11, 2017 [55 favorites]
That appears to limit his foreign travel to countries where public protest is illegal.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:55 AM on June 11, 2017 [55 favorites]
That appears to limit his foreign travel to countries where public protest is illegal.
Let's see, Saudi Arabia fits the bill. Been there already, but why not? Another trip to Saudi Arabia soon then? Or, how about North Korea?
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:01 AM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Let's see, Saudi Arabia fits the bill. Been there already, but why not? Another trip to Saudi Arabia soon then? Or, how about North Korea?
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:01 AM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Those ones put on the best shows!
posted by Artw at 8:01 AM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:01 AM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think by prevalent he means something like numerous.
Would you say he has a plethora of leaks?
posted by kirkaracha at 8:06 AM on June 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Mr. Comey could have spared us this by simply stating, as he acknowledged Thursday, that Mr. Trump wasn’t under investigation.
That is one beautiful, majestic sinking ship y'all have got there.
posted by Rykey at 8:11 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
That is one beautiful, majestic sinking ship y'all have got there.
posted by Rykey at 8:11 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
How many of those do the complete opposite of the bill title?
Only the ones I've checked so far.
posted by petebest at 8:13 AM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Only the ones I've checked so far.
posted by petebest at 8:13 AM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yet before the election his FBI had leaked this to the press
The entire US intelligence community issued a statement on October 7, 2016, that said:
The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process.posted by kirkaracha at 8:14 AM on June 11, 2017 [41 favorites]
I hope the snarky Twitter dictionary word of the day tomorrow is prevalent.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 AM on June 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:21 AM on June 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
It took until this past week for me to really FINALLY get why the Republicans weren't motivated to shift Trump for virtually-the-same Pence, despite the risk of damaging their brand/losing moderates. It's that Trumpian antics provide a smokescreen that a more sober, charisma-free Pence would not. This just took a long time for me to grasp. /liberal bubble
Her father went down 25-75 to Chriac of all people. Going down 34-66 to someone who was, by all measurable metrics, better than Chirac should be scaring the shit out of centrists and technocrats.
My understanding is that Macron practically came out of nowhere and created his own political party for this run. So she lost to a newcomer without an established base/party structure. I found that encouraging.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:29 AM on June 11, 2017 [38 favorites]
Her father went down 25-75 to Chriac of all people. Going down 34-66 to someone who was, by all measurable metrics, better than Chirac should be scaring the shit out of centrists and technocrats.
My understanding is that Macron practically came out of nowhere and created his own political party for this run. So she lost to a newcomer without an established base/party structure. I found that encouraging.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:29 AM on June 11, 2017 [38 favorites]
It took until this past week for me to really FINALLY get why the Republicans weren't motivated to shift Trump for virtually-the-same Pence, despite the risk of damaging their brand/losing moderates. It's that Trumpian antics provide a smokescreen that a more sober, charisma-free Pence would not.
McConnell might, possibly, be that strategic but Ryan transparently isn't. The more immediate and likely reason that they're sticking behind Trump is that lots and lots of their primary voters really really REALLY like Trump, because they are dumbfuck racist shitbags.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:37 AM on June 11, 2017 [47 favorites]
McConnell might, possibly, be that strategic but Ryan transparently isn't. The more immediate and likely reason that they're sticking behind Trump is that lots and lots of their primary voters really really REALLY like Trump, because they are dumbfuck racist shitbags.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:37 AM on June 11, 2017 [47 favorites]
They're not hiding behind Trump, they're afraid of their own base voters and scared that if they turn even slightly against Trump Republican voters will turn to actual violence against not only Democrats, but the Republican "establishment" as well.
That and they are in 100% lockstep agreement with Trump's ethnofacist policy agenda. They're not repudiating him because they agree with him, they'd just like if he'd stop tweeting about their real goals so publicly, and stop being such an incompetent moron that they can't implement the totalitarian takeover they thought they were getting with his surprise win.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:45 AM on June 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
That and they are in 100% lockstep agreement with Trump's ethnofacist policy agenda. They're not repudiating him because they agree with him, they'd just like if he'd stop tweeting about their real goals so publicly, and stop being such an incompetent moron that they can't implement the totalitarian takeover they thought they were getting with his surprise win.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:45 AM on June 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
It may also be that Pence and others are entwined enough in the whole damn mess that they're afraid Trump will shriek and blow the whole thing sky high if they try to kick him out.
posted by rifflesby at 8:54 AM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by rifflesby at 8:54 AM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Klein: “I am not saying Russia is not important,” she says, “but Trump’s base is very well defended against that: ‘the liberal media is out to get him’, ‘it’s fake news’, and all the rest.” While we are all clicking and fixing our eyes on the never-ending Trump show – the handshake with Macron, the hand-holding with May – he is, she argues, enacting policies that are systematically moving wealth upwards, and crucial questions are not being asked loudly enough: Is your social security safe? Is your healthcare safe? Are your wages going to be driven down? “He benefits so much from that focus away from economics.”
I get what she is saying but it also pisses me off.
Who should be speaking louder? The media? Sure that's reasonable.
It's not that people are noticing though. Beyond the the 'handshakes' and what she describes as clicky stuff all I've seen is people talking about this other stuff and tweeting about this other stuff.
People can do both things Naomi.
I also think she fails in recognizing part of the uniqueness that Trump brings to the table. In Trump's case all of this clicky and showy stuff actually means something because it means a hella lot to him. All of this clicky, viral outrage, poking fun, attacking him using all sorts of humor and satire, and distinct lack of respect actually does have an effect on him. He's a fricken snowflake when it comes to this stuff and it gets under his skin.
In Trumps case putting some focus on all this stuff she derides as a waste of time and focus is in part what causes him to make things even worse for himself. His angry, reactive tweeting has actually been used against him legally.
I consciously understand this which is why, when I have time I consciously add my voice to the clicky and showy and handholding talk. I also think that many people have an unconscious understanding that in Trumps case focusing at least some of this stuff makes a difference because of who Trump is. He HATES it and doesn't have the control to always ignore it and he does and says dumb things.
If there is any chance of bringing the guy down this is part of it. And because of the GOP controlling everything like they do and propping them up realistically there is only so much 'talking' about what else is happening is going to do. I mean heck there has been a hella lot of 'talking' about the healthcare bill and polls of shown that support of it is well below his base numbers and yet still the GOP and Trump are pushing it through. Same with talk about some of the stuff in the budget.
If we were talking about any other politician in power right now I would be agreeing with her. Trump is a special case.
posted by Jalliah at 9:01 AM on June 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
I get what she is saying but it also pisses me off.
Who should be speaking louder? The media? Sure that's reasonable.
It's not that people are noticing though. Beyond the the 'handshakes' and what she describes as clicky stuff all I've seen is people talking about this other stuff and tweeting about this other stuff.
People can do both things Naomi.
I also think she fails in recognizing part of the uniqueness that Trump brings to the table. In Trump's case all of this clicky and showy stuff actually means something because it means a hella lot to him. All of this clicky, viral outrage, poking fun, attacking him using all sorts of humor and satire, and distinct lack of respect actually does have an effect on him. He's a fricken snowflake when it comes to this stuff and it gets under his skin.
In Trumps case putting some focus on all this stuff she derides as a waste of time and focus is in part what causes him to make things even worse for himself. His angry, reactive tweeting has actually been used against him legally.
I consciously understand this which is why, when I have time I consciously add my voice to the clicky and showy and handholding talk. I also think that many people have an unconscious understanding that in Trumps case focusing at least some of this stuff makes a difference because of who Trump is. He HATES it and doesn't have the control to always ignore it and he does and says dumb things.
If there is any chance of bringing the guy down this is part of it. And because of the GOP controlling everything like they do and propping them up realistically there is only so much 'talking' about what else is happening is going to do. I mean heck there has been a hella lot of 'talking' about the healthcare bill and polls of shown that support of it is well below his base numbers and yet still the GOP and Trump are pushing it through. Same with talk about some of the stuff in the budget.
If we were talking about any other politician in power right now I would be agreeing with her. Trump is a special case.
posted by Jalliah at 9:01 AM on June 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
Pence is dirty as fuck. Anything that fells Trump fells Pence a couple of days and a few leaks later.
posted by Artw at 9:03 AM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:03 AM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
I've been trying to think through how Mueller will approach this. Mueller is going to care less about the political situation than he is about rule of law. He does, I think, genuinely care about the rule of law, he's no friend of Trump, and he has an eye to his role in history as a straight shooter rather than a partisan. That will tend to slow down his work, as he's going to want to make sure he has an air-tight case before he brings the hammer down. He'll engage in the standard strategic leaking to roil up his targets for prosecution and cause them to make mistakes, but other than that he'll stay out of tit-for-tat politics.
But on the other hand, I think Mueller will have one political consideration in mind. He'll see as his primary constituency the Republicans in Congress - what Mueller wants is a case so cut-and-dried that even his fellow Republicans will have to turn against Trump. That may lead Mueller to speed up the work, particularly if it seems that a 2018 Democratic wave is imminent. He'll (a) not want to drop the whole shebang in the middle of an election campaign, (b) give the Republicans in Congress the chance to "do the right thing" and turn against Trump in time for them to not be wiped out in 2018, and (c) not have a potential impeachment process led by a Democratic House (which Mueller would not trust anyway and would feel the American people could dismiss as just a partisan witchhunt; Mueller does not want to be cast as the "useful Republican" in that witchhunt). All of that suggests to me that Mueller's preferred timeline will be to drop the hammer in late 2017 or early 2018.
The Republicans will try to get everything out of the Trump presidency they can before the winds turn and they have to pivot. They'll ram through their agenda (using the Trump circus to focus attention away from what they're doing legislatively). They're then preparing for one of three options. If Mueller can't pull together a case, they'll cry "partisanship and leakers!" and try to use the tribal nature of current politics to hold on to their base through the midterms and try to hold the House and Senate. If Mueller has a case that only brings down scattered Trump associates, they'll play the "a few bad apples" and "no true Scotsman" game. They'll use their patented harrumphing and McCain-esque furrowed brows as a paper trail that they supported the Administration's goals but are saddened by the behavior of a scurrilous few - and it's so unfair to focus on just those few when people like Clinton or Lynch got off scot-free. If Mueller has a blockbuster case, they'll all look at each other not wanting to be the first rat off the ship, but when one goes there'll be a tidal wave as they try to save their individual seats. Some will try to play as if they were anti-Trump all along, while some will just go sharply negative against their Dem opponent to try to reduce turnout and hang on.
posted by Chanther at 9:04 AM on June 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
But on the other hand, I think Mueller will have one political consideration in mind. He'll see as his primary constituency the Republicans in Congress - what Mueller wants is a case so cut-and-dried that even his fellow Republicans will have to turn against Trump. That may lead Mueller to speed up the work, particularly if it seems that a 2018 Democratic wave is imminent. He'll (a) not want to drop the whole shebang in the middle of an election campaign, (b) give the Republicans in Congress the chance to "do the right thing" and turn against Trump in time for them to not be wiped out in 2018, and (c) not have a potential impeachment process led by a Democratic House (which Mueller would not trust anyway and would feel the American people could dismiss as just a partisan witchhunt; Mueller does not want to be cast as the "useful Republican" in that witchhunt). All of that suggests to me that Mueller's preferred timeline will be to drop the hammer in late 2017 or early 2018.
The Republicans will try to get everything out of the Trump presidency they can before the winds turn and they have to pivot. They'll ram through their agenda (using the Trump circus to focus attention away from what they're doing legislatively). They're then preparing for one of three options. If Mueller can't pull together a case, they'll cry "partisanship and leakers!" and try to use the tribal nature of current politics to hold on to their base through the midterms and try to hold the House and Senate. If Mueller has a case that only brings down scattered Trump associates, they'll play the "a few bad apples" and "no true Scotsman" game. They'll use their patented harrumphing and McCain-esque furrowed brows as a paper trail that they supported the Administration's goals but are saddened by the behavior of a scurrilous few - and it's so unfair to focus on just those few when people like Clinton or Lynch got off scot-free. If Mueller has a blockbuster case, they'll all look at each other not wanting to be the first rat off the ship, but when one goes there'll be a tidal wave as they try to save their individual seats. Some will try to play as if they were anti-Trump all along, while some will just go sharply negative against their Dem opponent to try to reduce turnout and hang on.
posted by Chanther at 9:04 AM on June 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
Pence is dirty as fuck. Anything that fells Trump fells Pence a couple of days and a few leaks later.
Putting Pence in charge of the transition was good insurance.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:08 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Putting Pence in charge of the transition was good insurance.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:08 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
They're not hiding behind Trump, they're afraid of their own base voters and scared that if they turn even slightly against Trump Republican voters will turn to actual violence against not only Democrats, but the Republican "establishment" as well.
This. See corb's dispatches in these threads during the RNC about how the Trump delegation appeared to be ready for violence.
posted by joedan at 9:13 AM on June 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
This. See corb's dispatches in these threads during the RNC about how the Trump delegation appeared to be ready for violence.
posted by joedan at 9:13 AM on June 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
BBC reporting: Downing Street says there has been "no change" to plans for a UK state visit by US President Donald Trump.
It comes after the Guardian reported Mr Trump had called Prime Minister Theresa May to say he did not want to carry out the trip until he had support from the British public.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:25 AM on June 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
It comes after the Guardian reported Mr Trump had called Prime Minister Theresa May to say he did not want to carry out the trip until he had support from the British public.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:25 AM on June 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Her father went down 25-75 to Chirac of all people. Going down 34-66 to someone who was, by all measurable metrics, better than Chirac should be scaring the shit out of centrists and technocrats.
Er, I'm not sure how you get to "better" in an electoral sense (whether he's a better human being is not really the issue). Chirac was (as I understand the French party system) right-of-center, meaning he had a pretty big slice of the pie who might not have much liked him but unambiguously preferred him to Le Pen as a lesser evil; Macron, further to the left, had that same set of freebie voters but less support from the center-right. Also, even as Chirac was widely denounced as corrupt (mostly on the strength of chicanery during his time as Mayor of Paris), it seems his tenure as president didn't stick any scandals to him very effectively, and incumbency can provide a measurable advantage. Actually, his career arc reminds me a lot of Bill Clinton, except that there was more smoke than fire in the allegations about Clinton's pre-presidential career.
posted by jackbishop at 9:31 AM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Er, I'm not sure how you get to "better" in an electoral sense (whether he's a better human being is not really the issue). Chirac was (as I understand the French party system) right-of-center, meaning he had a pretty big slice of the pie who might not have much liked him but unambiguously preferred him to Le Pen as a lesser evil; Macron, further to the left, had that same set of freebie voters but less support from the center-right. Also, even as Chirac was widely denounced as corrupt (mostly on the strength of chicanery during his time as Mayor of Paris), it seems his tenure as president didn't stick any scandals to him very effectively, and incumbency can provide a measurable advantage. Actually, his career arc reminds me a lot of Bill Clinton, except that there was more smoke than fire in the allegations about Clinton's pre-presidential career.
posted by jackbishop at 9:31 AM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
They're then preparing for one of three options.
Exactly none of those options has Republicans acknowledging their own cheerleading of outright treason and undermining American democracy, or repudiating Trump and moving to restore faith in democratic institutions. That is the one thing that none of them will ever do, even if Trump goes down in the hardest left fantasy world way imaginable and is personally tried for treason.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:41 AM on June 11, 2017
Exactly none of those options has Republicans acknowledging their own cheerleading of outright treason and undermining American democracy, or repudiating Trump and moving to restore faith in democratic institutions. That is the one thing that none of them will ever do, even if Trump goes down in the hardest left fantasy world way imaginable and is personally tried for treason.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:41 AM on June 11, 2017
Trump delegation appeared to be ready for violence.
Oh pleas, next you'll be telling me the Trump Organization is tied up tight with the most heinous human-trafficking, paid-killer, dope-and-spook, money-laundering mobs on the planet. The Predisent! Outrageous.
posted by petebest at 9:42 AM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Oh pleas, next you'll be telling me the Trump Organization is tied up tight with the most heinous human-trafficking, paid-killer, dope-and-spook, money-laundering mobs on the planet. The Predisent! Outrageous.
posted by petebest at 9:42 AM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Fox News turns the "Both Sides" dial up to 11:
posted by tonycpsu at 9:43 AM on June 11, 2017 [65 favorites]
The real winner in Britain’s election is Jeremy Corbyn, who led the Labour Party to a 32-seat gain over its disastrous electoral showing in 2015. Corbyn is a man whose only notable concession to conventional politics has been a necktie. He has done as much to shove the Labour Party to the nasty left as Donald Trump has shoved the Republican Party to the ugly right.Oh, my bad, that's not from Fox News, it's from Bret Stephens in New York Times. Via LGM:
OK, you think Trump, a racist authoritarian buffoon currently trying to take health care from more than 20 million people to pay for a massive upper-class tax cut. But Jeremy Corbyn wants to raise taxes on the most affluent to pay for benefits for the less affluent, perhaps even making the political economy of the United Kingdom more like such desolate hellholes as France and Germany. Equally scary when you think about it.Heckuva job, NYT.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:43 AM on June 11, 2017 [65 favorites]
a case so cut-and-dried that even his fellow Republicans will have to turn against Trump.
The math on this is wrong. Firstly, the "Surely This Theory" was widely, disastrously even, disproven during the Gee Dubz and Dick Show of the early aughts. Secondly, Trump has to be (legally) removed through a political process regardless of any criminal justice eventualities.
GOP does one thing really well: congeals into a hardened mass over 46% of the voting public, more than half of whom think Trump is doing Super.
If corporate media doesn't run him down, he ain't going down. Yes we can kickstart it with letters and pitchforks but it is the religious practice of this country to Do What the TV Says.
posted by petebest at 9:54 AM on June 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
The math on this is wrong. Firstly, the "Surely This Theory" was widely, disastrously even, disproven during the Gee Dubz and Dick Show of the early aughts. Secondly, Trump has to be (legally) removed through a political process regardless of any criminal justice eventualities.
GOP does one thing really well: congeals into a hardened mass over 46% of the voting public, more than half of whom think Trump is doing Super.
If corporate media doesn't run him down, he ain't going down. Yes we can kickstart it with letters and pitchforks but it is the religious practice of this country to Do What the TV Says.
posted by petebest at 9:54 AM on June 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
If Mueller has a case that only brings down scattered Trump associates, they'll play the "a few bad apples" and "no true Scotsman" game.
I think the Republicans are actually hoping for this kind of outcome, thinking that an investigation that ends up cleaning house in the administration but leaving Trump in place gives them an opportunity to pressure Trump to appoint more of the establishment Republicans' hand-picked people as replacements to try and control him. I think they wouldn't be fighting quite as hard to carry water on this if Comey had said that Bannon or Miller were the ones popping their heads in the door by the grandfather clock and hanging around outside the office during that meeting instead of Priebus and Pence.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:58 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think the Republicans are actually hoping for this kind of outcome, thinking that an investigation that ends up cleaning house in the administration but leaving Trump in place gives them an opportunity to pressure Trump to appoint more of the establishment Republicans' hand-picked people as replacements to try and control him. I think they wouldn't be fighting quite as hard to carry water on this if Comey had said that Bannon or Miller were the ones popping their heads in the door by the grandfather clock and hanging around outside the office during that meeting instead of Priebus and Pence.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:58 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Dalia Lithwick When the Nazis Come Marching in about protests in Charlottesville. Good and scary read.
posted by angrycat at 10:13 AM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 10:13 AM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
It was way upthread, but that whole new york conversation banter really needed a little
I was sleeping, gently napping, when I heard the phone
Who is on the other end talking, am I even home
Did you see what she did to him, did you hear what they said
Just a New York conversation, rattling in my head
posted by aspersioncast at 10:35 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was sleeping, gently napping, when I heard the phone
Who is on the other end talking, am I even home
Did you see what she did to him, did you hear what they said
Just a New York conversation, rattling in my head
posted by aspersioncast at 10:35 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Given the likelihood of Puerto Rico's Senators caucusing with the Democrats, and thus taking away the Republican majority in the Senate, I don't see the Republicans allowing PR to become a state.
posted by sotonohito at 10:37 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 10:37 AM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't see the Republicans allowing PR to become a state
I believe 100% that they don't want to, but I wonder what the backlash will be. If they're going to do it, what can we do to make it backfire?
Good luck PR, even though one of your waves almost carried little me out to sea!
posted by Room 641-A at 10:46 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I believe 100% that they don't want to, but I wonder what the backlash will be. If they're going to do it, what can we do to make it backfire?
Good luck PR, even though one of your waves almost carried little me out to sea!
posted by Room 641-A at 10:46 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
If Puerto Rico votes to become a state and Congress is like "Nahh, no thanks, we're too racist", that will truly be the signal of the end of the American experiment
On the other hand, if Puerto Rico does become a state, then we need to immediately campaign for another state, because 51 is an odd number, and just, yechh
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:47 AM on June 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
On the other hand, if Puerto Rico does become a state, then we need to immediately campaign for another state, because 51 is an odd number, and just, yechh
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:47 AM on June 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
Republicans will be shit weasels and propose something like dividing California in half or other such nonsense as they cry fairness.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:50 AM on June 11, 2017
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:50 AM on June 11, 2017
So, just to confirm my understanding, this is literally the case? Trump could be physically in prison, but he would still be the president if not impeached?
Yes. And no, it's actually worse than even that. There's an open question whether the president can ever be prosecuted, period while still in office. And most legal experts think the answer is "no". So the policial solution, removal from office by the Republicans (right, stop laughing) has to come before the regular legal process. Mueller could charge everyone in the Trump administration, except Trump, and Republicans could still refuse to remove him from office. Which would be where I'd place my bets.
And even then, Mueller does not have complete carte blanche, the special prosecutor still reports to the AG, or in this case because Sessions is likely a subject of the investigation, to the DAG, Rosenstien. We don't know just how wideranging Mueller's authority really is, or how closely Rosenstien is looking over his shoulder.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:50 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes. And no, it's actually worse than even that. There's an open question whether the president can ever be prosecuted, period while still in office. And most legal experts think the answer is "no". So the policial solution, removal from office by the Republicans (right, stop laughing) has to come before the regular legal process. Mueller could charge everyone in the Trump administration, except Trump, and Republicans could still refuse to remove him from office. Which would be where I'd place my bets.
And even then, Mueller does not have complete carte blanche, the special prosecutor still reports to the AG, or in this case because Sessions is likely a subject of the investigation, to the DAG, Rosenstien. We don't know just how wideranging Mueller's authority really is, or how closely Rosenstien is looking over his shoulder.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:50 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I should there any reason PR *wouldn't* want to be a state? I assume they are in some kind of sucky DC style limbo with no benefits right now?
posted by Artw at 10:55 AM on June 11, 2017
posted by Artw at 10:55 AM on June 11, 2017
if Puerto Rico does become a state, then we need to immediately campaign for another state
...Washington DC statehood has been an issue for quite some time now...
But, it's likely moot, because Congress will not approve statehood for PR, even if it does win the vote. It upsets their gerrymandering. Best case is they delay until after 2018 and the Dems pick up one of the congressional houses, then... *maybe*.
But I wouldn't hold my breath.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:56 AM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
...Washington DC statehood has been an issue for quite some time now...
But, it's likely moot, because Congress will not approve statehood for PR, even if it does win the vote. It upsets their gerrymandering. Best case is they delay until after 2018 and the Dems pick up one of the congressional houses, then... *maybe*.
But I wouldn't hold my breath.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:56 AM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, just to confirm my understanding, this is literally the case? Trump could be physically in prison, but he would still be the president if not impeached?
Any president convicted or indeed even just indicted for a crime while in office would undoubtedly immediately issue a pardon for themselves, and then we'd have to see what the supreme court has to say about self-pardoning. But it also raises the issue of how you arrest a president. Would the Secret Service allow the FBI or US Marshals to take custody of the President without violence? We really have no idea what would happen.
posted by dis_integration at 10:56 AM on June 11, 2017
Any president convicted or indeed even just indicted for a crime while in office would undoubtedly immediately issue a pardon for themselves, and then we'd have to see what the supreme court has to say about self-pardoning. But it also raises the issue of how you arrest a president. Would the Secret Service allow the FBI or US Marshals to take custody of the President without violence? We really have no idea what would happen.
posted by dis_integration at 10:56 AM on June 11, 2017
If Puerto Rico votes to become a state and Congress is like "Nahh, no thanks, we're too racist", that will truly be the signal of the end of the American experiment
then it ended a long time ago, because that's the reason DC was, is, and will continue to be denied statehood.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:00 AM on June 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
then it ended a long time ago, because that's the reason DC was, is, and will continue to be denied statehood.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:00 AM on June 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
They're on Obamacare, they voted for Trump, and they're already disappointed - "But they’re still voting Republican"
This sentiment felt ubiquitous in Corbin. Obamacare enrollees I interviewed didn’t like the Republican plan, but they still trusted the Republican Party to do the right thing on health care.posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:04 AM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
They felt like they had picked a side, and now they were going to stick with it.
Republicans will be shit weasels and propose something like dividing California in half or other such nonsense as they cry fairness.
Sounds good to me. Put the Bay Area in NorCal and the LA area in SoCal, and that's a pretty straightforward path to 4 Democratic senators.
posted by jackbishop at 11:06 AM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sounds good to me. Put the Bay Area in NorCal and the LA area in SoCal, and that's a pretty straightforward path to 4 Democratic senators.
posted by jackbishop at 11:06 AM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Would the Secret Service allow the FBI or US Marshals to take custody of the President without violence?
Not to worry anybody about that outcome, but recruitment ads for the Secret Service are appearing on Breitbart.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:12 AM on June 11, 2017 [29 favorites]
Not to worry anybody about that outcome, but recruitment ads for the Secret Service are appearing on Breitbart.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:12 AM on June 11, 2017 [29 favorites]
If PR does vote for statehood it'll be interesting to see the outcome.
I confidently predict the Congressional Republicans will resoundingly say no. The calculus for Republican votes in this sort of circumstance is depressingly simple, they'll always vote for anything that strengthens the Republican Party and against anything that weakens it.
That Puerto Rico would be the first majority non-white state admitted to the USA is the racist icing on the cake, but even if they were all white it wouldn't matter. Puerto Rico would be a threat to Republican dominance, therefore they will vote against it.
As with Comey's testimony and all the other stuff, the question here isn't "will this finally push the Republicans to do the right thing", because we already know the answer. It won't because nothing can.
The only meaningful question is whether we can use this to help us win in 2018 and 2020. Because it's flat out going to take a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress, and a Democrat in the White House, to admit Puerto Rico as a state.
The only possible wildcard is the Supreme Court, and I don't see any Justices voting to flat out overturn Article IV, Section 3 on the grounds that Congress was racist. The Constitution is pretty unambiguous that new states are admitted to the USA by Congress and that presumably includes Congress deciding not to admit one.
So the question is: if Puerto Rico asks to be admitted as a state can we spin the inevitable Republican refusal into more votes for Democrats in 2018 and 2020?
I think we can. It's disappointing that we have to view Puerto Rico's historic vote as basically one more bit of political theater we can spin to our partisan advantage but that's what it is thanks to the Republicans.
It seems likely that we can get some pretty serious benefit from the Republicans refusing to allow Puerto Rico into the USA (as they inevitably will). We can present it as racist (because it is), we can present it as partisanship overruling proper behavior (because it is), and we can hopefully use it to stir up every Latinx voter in the USA.
And, eventually, we can also hopefully admit Puerto Rico as a state if that's what they want. The fact that this is in our electoral benefit is a nice bonus, but from a pure fairness and property standpoint if a longtime US territory wants statehood it seems appropriate to admit it as a state.
posted by sotonohito at 11:20 AM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
I confidently predict the Congressional Republicans will resoundingly say no. The calculus for Republican votes in this sort of circumstance is depressingly simple, they'll always vote for anything that strengthens the Republican Party and against anything that weakens it.
That Puerto Rico would be the first majority non-white state admitted to the USA is the racist icing on the cake, but even if they were all white it wouldn't matter. Puerto Rico would be a threat to Republican dominance, therefore they will vote against it.
As with Comey's testimony and all the other stuff, the question here isn't "will this finally push the Republicans to do the right thing", because we already know the answer. It won't because nothing can.
The only meaningful question is whether we can use this to help us win in 2018 and 2020. Because it's flat out going to take a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress, and a Democrat in the White House, to admit Puerto Rico as a state.
The only possible wildcard is the Supreme Court, and I don't see any Justices voting to flat out overturn Article IV, Section 3 on the grounds that Congress was racist. The Constitution is pretty unambiguous that new states are admitted to the USA by Congress and that presumably includes Congress deciding not to admit one.
So the question is: if Puerto Rico asks to be admitted as a state can we spin the inevitable Republican refusal into more votes for Democrats in 2018 and 2020?
I think we can. It's disappointing that we have to view Puerto Rico's historic vote as basically one more bit of political theater we can spin to our partisan advantage but that's what it is thanks to the Republicans.
It seems likely that we can get some pretty serious benefit from the Republicans refusing to allow Puerto Rico into the USA (as they inevitably will). We can present it as racist (because it is), we can present it as partisanship overruling proper behavior (because it is), and we can hopefully use it to stir up every Latinx voter in the USA.
And, eventually, we can also hopefully admit Puerto Rico as a state if that's what they want. The fact that this is in our electoral benefit is a nice bonus, but from a pure fairness and property standpoint if a longtime US territory wants statehood it seems appropriate to admit it as a state.
posted by sotonohito at 11:20 AM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Quora: What are the arguments for and against Puerto Rico becoming the 51st state?
NavajoCodeTalkers: Pros and Cons of Puerto Rico Statehood
OccupyTheory: Puerto Rico Statehood Pros and Cons List
IMO the pros are pretty pro and the cons are not that bad, I think there's a good case for statehood, but there is legitimately a spectrum of opinion on the issue. Usually the stickiest issue is one of identity - language, culture - PR even has its own Olympic team that would have to be rolled into the USA team. But with PR's bankruptcy, taxation and regulation might well outweigh that in this referendum.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:20 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
That Puerto Rico would be the first majority non-white state admitted to the USA is the racist icing on the cake, but even if they were all white it wouldn't matter.I think Hawaii was the first majority non-white state admitted to the union. But speaking as someone from D.C., I would say that there's exactly 0% chance of Puerto Rico becoming a state anytime soon. Very big things would have to change politically for that to happen.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:25 AM on June 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
If Puerto Rico votes to become a state and Congress is like "Nahh, no thanks, we're too racist", that will truly be the signal of the end of the American experiment
then it ended a long time ago, because that's the reason DC was, is, and will continue to be denied statehood.
This is completely true, but for D.C. there are a lot of legal figleafs and various constitutional layers of cruft -- for PR I can't think of any plausible political or legal excuse.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:29 AM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Very big things would have to change politically for that to happen.
It could be done with a party line vote and Democratic majority. If that happens in 2020 and PR voted for statehood, Democrats should make admitting PR and DC into the highest priority.
What would Republicans do if there were two overwhelmingly Republican voting territories that could be made into Republican states? There's absolutely no question they would do it on a party line vote and breaking any norms standing in the way of acquiring more power.
Republicans cannot be the only party looking to the long view and looking to cement their political power by any means necessary. Democrats have to start playing the same game if they ever win back control.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:30 AM on June 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
It could be done with a party line vote and Democratic majority. If that happens in 2020 and PR voted for statehood, Democrats should make admitting PR and DC into the highest priority.
What would Republicans do if there were two overwhelmingly Republican voting territories that could be made into Republican states? There's absolutely no question they would do it on a party line vote and breaking any norms standing in the way of acquiring more power.
Republicans cannot be the only party looking to the long view and looking to cement their political power by any means necessary. Democrats have to start playing the same game if they ever win back control.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:30 AM on June 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
I hope I'm wrong, but I will be very surprised if Puerto Rico votes for statehood. The pro-statehood position is associated with the political right (the pro-statehood governor Ricky Rosselló is kind of a GWB figure, the son of a conservative former governor widely hated and seen as corrupt by the left), and the left is energized and angry about the austerity measures imposed by the fiscal control board. Many are even calling for a boycott of the vote.
posted by mubba at 11:32 AM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mubba at 11:32 AM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
then it ended a long time ago, because that's the reason DC was, is, and will continue to be denied statehood
That's not the only reason, though. DC is a unique case since it was established by the Constitution and the District of Columbia Organic Act of 1801. There's already precedent for returning land that's not needed by the federal government to the states.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:33 AM on June 11, 2017
Also I feel like I should note that as of 2010 76% of Puerto Ricans chose "White" on the census.
To say that they're a majority non-white area is to use the white supremacist construction of race.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:34 AM on June 11, 2017 [41 favorites]
To say that they're a majority non-white area is to use the white supremacist construction of race.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:34 AM on June 11, 2017 [41 favorites]
The pro-statehood position is associated with the political right (the pro-statehood governor Ricky Rosselló is kind of a GWB figure, the son of a conservative former governor widely hated and seen as corrupt by the left), and the left is energized and angry about the austerity measures imposed by the fiscal control board.
I don't actually know anything about internal PR politics or the likelihood of a statehood vote, but the left position being the one of cutting off the nose to spite the face seems perfectly appropriate for 2016-2017 and our national nightmare.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:35 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't actually know anything about internal PR politics or the likelihood of a statehood vote, but the left position being the one of cutting off the nose to spite the face seems perfectly appropriate for 2016-2017 and our national nightmare.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:35 AM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's not the only reason, though. DC is a unique case since it was established by the Constitution and the District of Columbia Organic Act of 1801. There's already precedent for returning land that's not needed by the federal government to the states.
Yeah. Far more likely they just hand the whole lot besides the White House, the Capitol, and the National Mall back to Maryland.
But then the Republicans oh so love fucking with DC's gun laws, abortion laws, assisted suicide laws, and anything else DC can come up with that's vaguely progressive, so they probably wouldn't go for that either.
posted by Talez at 11:43 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah. Far more likely they just hand the whole lot besides the White House, the Capitol, and the National Mall back to Maryland.
But then the Republicans oh so love fucking with DC's gun laws, abortion laws, assisted suicide laws, and anything else DC can come up with that's vaguely progressive, so they probably wouldn't go for that either.
posted by Talez at 11:43 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
What hope does Puerto Rico have for becoming a state if they can't even get their own FPP?
posted by rhizome at 11:44 AM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 11:44 AM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
What hope does Puerto Rico have for becoming a state if they can't even get their own FPP?
The problem is Lin-Manuel Miranda hasn't put a rap up on Instagram. Then we'll pay attention.
posted by Talez at 11:47 AM on June 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
The problem is Lin-Manuel Miranda hasn't put a rap up on Instagram. Then we'll pay attention.
posted by Talez at 11:47 AM on June 11, 2017 [9 favorites]
What hope does Puerto Rico have for becoming a state if they can't even get their own FPP?
What hope does PR have for becoming a state if they can't even get out to vote for it on a Sunday?
Frances Robles, NYT; Puerto Ricans Vote on the Question of Statehood
What hope does PR have for becoming a state if they can't even get out to vote for it on a Sunday?
Frances Robles, NYT; Puerto Ricans Vote on the Question of Statehood
“I don’t see myself ever singing the United States national anthem, I really don’t. But Puerto Rico is in really bad shape and it needs help.”posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:48 AM on June 11, 2017
So she arrived at the same conclusion as many other Puerto Ricans:
“That’s why I don’t think I’m going to vote,” she said.
Turnout appeared light on the island, where polls were to close at 3 p.m., with preliminary results expected by 6 p.m.
[...]
Marcia Rivera, a political scientist here who advocates independence, said people were fuming over the governor’s decision to spend up to $8 million to hold the vote at a time what so many schools were being closed to save money.
“Nobody cares about what happens on Sunday,” she said.
The Republicans will say "Puerto Rico didn't want statehood until their economy needed a bailout" and their base (and far too many people outside of their base) will accept that reasoning for denying statehood because it aligns with their prejudices about nonwhites mooching off of the government. Throw in some "culturally incompatible" dogwhistles and that will be their argument.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:49 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 11:49 AM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
So the question is: if Puerto Rico asks to be admitted as a state can we spin the inevitable Republican refusal into more votes for Democrats in 2018 and 2020?I'm not sure how that would be a factor. I don't think there are enough Puerto Ricans in the US to have an electoral impact and Latin@s are not a united bloc of like-minded voters. Further, I don't think most Americans, Democrats included, give much thought to Puerto Rico. The threat of Republicans taking away your health care, labor rights, reproductive rights, having more wars, etc. weren't enough to convince Democrats to vote or Independents to go blue, so I don't see how some US territory most people have never been to or understand the politics of will figure into the next election cycle.
posted by xyzzy at 11:50 AM on June 11, 2017
Can the president commit a crime so heinous even he can't pardon it?
I don't know, but it should make for an interesting court decision.
posted by chrchr at 11:50 AM on June 11, 2017
I don't know, but it should make for an interesting court decision.
posted by chrchr at 11:50 AM on June 11, 2017
I'm not sure how that would be a factor. I don't think there are enough Puerto Ricans in the US to have an electoral impact and Latin@s are not a united bloc of like-minded voters. Further, I don't think most Americans, Democrats included, give much thought to Puerto Rico. The threat of Republicans taking away your health care, labor rights, reproductive rights, having more wars, etc. weren't enough to convince Democrats to vote or Independents to go blue, so I don't see how some US territory most people have never been to or understand the politics of will figure into the next election cycle.
A savvy enough campaign could make it an exciting plank in a progressive populist platform (say that five times fast), something subverting MAGA in a way that's like, we're going to make America bigger and better than ever before by giving our brothers and sisters in the territories full statehood and representation if they want it, dominating the green energy gold rush, and building the best healthcare system the world has ever seen [dean scream]
posted by jason_steakums at 12:01 PM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
A savvy enough campaign could make it an exciting plank in a progressive populist platform (say that five times fast), something subverting MAGA in a way that's like, we're going to make America bigger and better than ever before by giving our brothers and sisters in the territories full statehood and representation if they want it, dominating the green energy gold rush, and building the best healthcare system the world has ever seen [dean scream]
posted by jason_steakums at 12:01 PM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I should there any reason PR *wouldn't* want to be a state? I assume they are in some kind of sucky DC style limbo with no benefits right now?
From my conversations with Puerto Ricans on the topic, I wouldn't assume that your average Puerto Rican necessarily wants statehood. PR has its own national identity, and while most of the Puerto Ricans I've met seem to feel a close bond with mainland Americans, many of them seem uneasy with the idea of joining the U.S. as a state and subsuming their unique national identity into that of the U.S. So at the end of the day, it may be less an issue of political advantage and more about national pride.
PR has voted on statehood/independence/status quo numerous times, and so far the status quo has always won out. My feeling as a non-Puerto Rican is that if and when they vote for statehood, they should get it, and if and when they vote for independence, they should get that, and until then they should get more resources and less meddling from Washington.
posted by biogeo at 12:30 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
From my conversations with Puerto Ricans on the topic, I wouldn't assume that your average Puerto Rican necessarily wants statehood. PR has its own national identity, and while most of the Puerto Ricans I've met seem to feel a close bond with mainland Americans, many of them seem uneasy with the idea of joining the U.S. as a state and subsuming their unique national identity into that of the U.S. So at the end of the day, it may be less an issue of political advantage and more about national pride.
PR has voted on statehood/independence/status quo numerous times, and so far the status quo has always won out. My feeling as a non-Puerto Rican is that if and when they vote for statehood, they should get it, and if and when they vote for independence, they should get that, and until then they should get more resources and less meddling from Washington.
posted by biogeo at 12:30 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
To say that they're a majority non-white area is to use the white supremacist construction of race.
The white supremacist construction of race is the construction we have. There isn't another one. We wouldn't be talking about race in the US if it weren't for white people trying to fuck over everybody else. But on the US Census and many other official measures, if you identify as Latinx then "white Hispanic" is your real option; it's not part of the race boxes unless you can accurately call yourself American Indian (again, their terminology) or Black/African American. Which is very nice for accuracy of reporting, but it means that when we say "majority non-white", what we mean is "majority non-HIspanic white", and basically everybody should be able to understand that those two mean the same thing, because the racists didn't start treating Mexicans differently when we started reporting ourselves as white, so they're not going to do for the Puerto Ricans.
posted by Sequence at 12:30 PM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
The white supremacist construction of race is the construction we have. There isn't another one. We wouldn't be talking about race in the US if it weren't for white people trying to fuck over everybody else. But on the US Census and many other official measures, if you identify as Latinx then "white Hispanic" is your real option; it's not part of the race boxes unless you can accurately call yourself American Indian (again, their terminology) or Black/African American. Which is very nice for accuracy of reporting, but it means that when we say "majority non-white", what we mean is "majority non-HIspanic white", and basically everybody should be able to understand that those two mean the same thing, because the racists didn't start treating Mexicans differently when we started reporting ourselves as white, so they're not going to do for the Puerto Ricans.
posted by Sequence at 12:30 PM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Don't feel bad Hawaii. People still don't even remember New Mexico is a state let alone our demographics when we joined.
posted by wobumingbai at 12:33 PM on June 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by wobumingbai at 12:33 PM on June 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
It's also worth observing that the 2016 Democratic Party platform backed increased autonomy, equal protection, and presidential election voting rights for PR, while remaining agnostic on the question of statehood.
posted by biogeo at 12:35 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 12:35 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Don't feel bad Hawaii. People still don't even remember New Mexico is a state let alone our demographics when we joined.
One of our fifty is missing.
posted by azpenguin at 12:46 PM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
One of our fifty is missing.
posted by azpenguin at 12:46 PM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Looks like with 53% of the vote counted statehood is holding at 97%. I know that those who weren't in favor of statehood were encouraged to abstain which does make the results less dramatic from a numerical standpoint.
Is the abstention what the Rs are going to hang their denial of statehood on? That these weren't real and legitimate results?
posted by lydhre at 12:48 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is the abstention what the Rs are going to hang their denial of statehood on? That these weren't real and legitimate results?
posted by lydhre at 12:48 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is the abstention what the Rs are going to hang their denial of statehood on? That these weren't real and legitimate results?
Then they'd have to start thinking about everyone who "abstained" in the 2016 presidential election, but consistency and intellectual honesty have never been part of the Republican platform.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:52 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Then they'd have to start thinking about everyone who "abstained" in the 2016 presidential election, but consistency and intellectual honesty have never been part of the Republican platform.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:52 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump's private lawyer telling people his client may have to throw over that they don't need lawyers of their own.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:56 PM on June 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:56 PM on June 11, 2017 [14 favorites]
Trump's private lawyer telling people his client may have to throw over that they don't need lawyers of their own.
I've seen a ton of comments today saying that it might very well violate NY ethics laws for him to do that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:58 PM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
I've seen a ton of comments today saying that it might very well violate NY ethics laws for him to do that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:58 PM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Not *yet* necessary, but I'd look into lining one up anyway.
What the hell does "throw over" mean in this context?
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:58 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
What the hell does "throw over" mean in this context?
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:58 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
What the hell does "throw over" mean in this context?
The bus is moving at such velocity that when you're thrown under it you actually go flying over it.
posted by Talez at 1:01 PM on June 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
The bus is moving at such velocity that when you're thrown under it you actually go flying over it.
posted by Talez at 1:01 PM on June 11, 2017 [31 favorites]
consistency and intellectual honesty have never been part of the Republican platform
As far as they're concerned that's a feature, not a bug.
posted by lydhre at 1:01 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
As far as they're concerned that's a feature, not a bug.
posted by lydhre at 1:01 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's sort of like "throw up" but with extra Trump
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:04 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:04 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
If this ends with Kasowitz before the attorney discipline panel for giving bad legal advice to people he doesn't represent, I will laugh extremely hard.
posted by zachlipton at 1:04 PM on June 11, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:04 PM on June 11, 2017 [37 favorites]
If this ends with Kasowitz before the attorney discipline panel for giving bad legal advice to people he doesn't represent, I will laugh extremely hard.
I feel like this would be a particularly MetaFilterian beat in this drama. We were the chorus in the background, chanting words the actors could not hear nor heed: I am not your lawyer. This is not legal advice.
posted by Andrhia at 1:12 PM on June 11, 2017 [63 favorites]
I feel like this would be a particularly MetaFilterian beat in this drama. We were the chorus in the background, chanting words the actors could not hear nor heed: I am not your lawyer. This is not legal advice.
posted by Andrhia at 1:12 PM on June 11, 2017 [63 favorites]
Trump's private lawyer telling people his client may have to throw over that they don't need lawyers of their own.
It's another testament to the poor qualifications of the entire administration that actual White House aides seem to believe that the President's private lawyer is somehow also their lawyer and actually represents or remotely cares about their interests.
Not only are they too stupid to work in the White House but they apparently have never seen an episode of Law and Order. Dude, don't trust your rich co-defendant's legal counsel!
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:14 PM on June 11, 2017 [54 favorites]
It's another testament to the poor qualifications of the entire administration that actual White House aides seem to believe that the President's private lawyer is somehow also their lawyer and actually represents or remotely cares about their interests.
Not only are they too stupid to work in the White House but they apparently have never seen an episode of Law and Order. Dude, don't trust your rich co-defendant's legal counsel!
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:14 PM on June 11, 2017 [54 favorites]
All of those people better immediately get lawyers is what he's saying.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:16 PM on June 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:16 PM on June 11, 2017 [17 favorites]
Can you imaging how difficult it's going to be for all these people to find white shoe firms able to handle this clusterfuck but not be drawn into any conflict of interest?
posted by Talez at 1:16 PM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Talez at 1:16 PM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
As an outside observer and player of strategy games, a couple of things concern me:
1.Even if you impeach Trump and jail some of his staff, the political forces behind him will have still won a significant victory. Impeaching Trump doesn't undo his justice appointments. It doesn't undo the damage done to global relations. The damage to other institutions will be non-trivial to unwind. Repair of perception of the US in global community will take years.
2. If you impeach Trump, will you not lose the midterm bump? If moderate Republicans / center-right independents think the rot is excised will they not just return to voting Republican?
3. A lot of effort has been expended to convince a large political base that honesty/integrity/other values are unimportant compared to eliminating the political power of the "left". The degree to which this has been done is a strong signal the people doing it are prepared to go to war.
I don't see how the left wins this political battle just by impeaching trump and sending a handful of his staff to jail. I don't think many of the political players behind trump & the populism that elected him lose much if he goes down. They come out of that with significant gains in their political goals.
I'm also not confidant that impeaching Trump happens without violence. A minority of, and perhaps even a significant percentage of his political base are ready for violence. Not in some vague theoretical sense, but in the sense that they have stockpiled weapons & supplies and trained for it. History shows us that 5-10% of the population can successfully back a police state if the majority are not similarly resolved to fight.
I haven't travelled in the states since last summer, and won't be for some time.
posted by lastobelus at 1:35 PM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
1.Even if you impeach Trump and jail some of his staff, the political forces behind him will have still won a significant victory. Impeaching Trump doesn't undo his justice appointments. It doesn't undo the damage done to global relations. The damage to other institutions will be non-trivial to unwind. Repair of perception of the US in global community will take years.
2. If you impeach Trump, will you not lose the midterm bump? If moderate Republicans / center-right independents think the rot is excised will they not just return to voting Republican?
3. A lot of effort has been expended to convince a large political base that honesty/integrity/other values are unimportant compared to eliminating the political power of the "left". The degree to which this has been done is a strong signal the people doing it are prepared to go to war.
I don't see how the left wins this political battle just by impeaching trump and sending a handful of his staff to jail. I don't think many of the political players behind trump & the populism that elected him lose much if he goes down. They come out of that with significant gains in their political goals.
I'm also not confidant that impeaching Trump happens without violence. A minority of, and perhaps even a significant percentage of his political base are ready for violence. Not in some vague theoretical sense, but in the sense that they have stockpiled weapons & supplies and trained for it. History shows us that 5-10% of the population can successfully back a police state if the majority are not similarly resolved to fight.
I haven't travelled in the states since last summer, and won't be for some time.
posted by lastobelus at 1:35 PM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Whoa, there's a New Mexico now?
posted by kirkaracha at 1:41 PM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 1:41 PM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Whoa, there's a New Mexico now?
I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missourah.
posted by Talez at 1:45 PM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missourah.
posted by Talez at 1:45 PM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
History shows us that 5-10% of the population can successfully back a police state if the majority are not similarly resolved to fight.
History also tells us that it may only take 3.5% of the population to topple a dictator with civil resistance.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:46 PM on June 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
History also tells us that it may only take 3.5% of the population to topple a dictator with civil resistance.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:46 PM on June 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
this is a good thing in that it says, "Preserve everything, you schmucks, and don't pretend we didn't tell you not to, because we did."
It does, and the penalties for "losing" evidence - the technical term is spoliation - can be much, much heavier than the penalties for whatever the actual case is about.
* a Virginia state judge ordered lawyer Matthew Murray to pay $522,000 for instructing his client to remove photos from his Facebook profile
* Bad Faith Deletion of Email: $4.5 million in attorney’s fees and expenses
* $3 million punitive monetary sanction ... after finding that a top executive at the company had deleted thousands of potentially relevant emails.
And so on. Most articles about this are written on law blogs in incredibly dense legalese, and most relate to mass-deletion of emails, sometimes routine - "we delete everything more than three months old!" To which the courts have replied, "once you knew there was a lawsuit - no, once you knew there was likely to be a lawsuit - you were obligated to stop deleting. So we're going to throw penalties at you as if what you deleted said exactly what the opposition claims it might have said, plus bonus penalties for trying to hide it."
In this case, the judge is warning them in advance: I'm not buying any "oh, I just delete everything more than a few months old" excuses. Find those documents, and show them, or I'm likely to let the other side decide what they said.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:52 PM on June 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
It does, and the penalties for "losing" evidence - the technical term is spoliation - can be much, much heavier than the penalties for whatever the actual case is about.
* a Virginia state judge ordered lawyer Matthew Murray to pay $522,000 for instructing his client to remove photos from his Facebook profile
* Bad Faith Deletion of Email: $4.5 million in attorney’s fees and expenses
* $3 million punitive monetary sanction ... after finding that a top executive at the company had deleted thousands of potentially relevant emails.
And so on. Most articles about this are written on law blogs in incredibly dense legalese, and most relate to mass-deletion of emails, sometimes routine - "we delete everything more than three months old!" To which the courts have replied, "once you knew there was a lawsuit - no, once you knew there was likely to be a lawsuit - you were obligated to stop deleting. So we're going to throw penalties at you as if what you deleted said exactly what the opposition claims it might have said, plus bonus penalties for trying to hide it."
In this case, the judge is warning them in advance: I'm not buying any "oh, I just delete everything more than a few months old" excuses. Find those documents, and show them, or I'm likely to let the other side decide what they said.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:52 PM on June 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
NYT: Democrats in Split-Screen: The Base Wants It All. The Party Wants to Win. There's a bunch in here, some of which will undoubtedly make most everyone in the Democratic Party angry, and I'm still digesting what I agree and disagree with, but the I find the general concept of a contrast between a base that's fired up about single payer healthcare and the actual political reality that we're fighting for our lives to have any healthcare at all for 23 million people is undeniable and increasingly dangerous.
NYT: Trump May Not Visit U.K. This Year as Planned
Margaret Sullivan is spitting fire: Is media coverage of Trump too negative? You’re asking the wrong question.
posted by zachlipton at 1:59 PM on June 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
NYT: Trump May Not Visit U.K. This Year as Planned
Mr. Trump, who was visiting his golf course in Bedminster, N.J., over the weekend, has not definitively ruled out going, the officials said. They emphasized that it was possible that the president would eventually warm to the idea, and that keeping it off the schedule was the best way to prepare for any eventuality.Personally, I hope he goes, and I hope the Queen and Mayor Khan escort him to that horse-drawn carriage and tell him to "have fun" as the long slow ride of booing and jeers begins.
But he has told his staff that he wants to avoid a marathon overseas trip like his nine-day trek to the Middle East and Europe, which he found exhausting and overly long.
One other factor leading to his reluctance, said one of the officials, is his preference for having foreign leaders visit him — not the other way around.
Margaret Sullivan is spitting fire: Is media coverage of Trump too negative? You’re asking the wrong question.
Looked at through this lens, Trump’s press coverage has been a political nightmare.WaPo: President Trump can’t stop crashing parties at his golf clubs. He showed up at a wedding and an 8th grade graduation party. A marketing brochure at Bedminster even promised that Trump could stop by if he was on-site, so this is an actual advertised feature now much like how Chuck E. Cheese's (fun fact: the E stands for entertainment, so he's "Charles Entertainment Cheese") promises that the rodent will stop by to celebrate your kid's special day (the brochure has supposedly been discontinued).
Isn’t that terribly unfair?
Here’s my carefully nuanced answer: Hell no.
That’s because when we consider negative vs. positive coverage of an elected official, we’re asking the wrong question.
The president’s supporters often say his accomplishments get short shrift. But let’s face it: Politicians have no right to expect equally balanced positive and negative coverage, or anything close to it. If a president is doing a rotten job, it’s the duty of the press to report how and why he’s doing a rotten job.
The idea of balance is suspect on its face. Should positive coverage be provided, as if it were a birthright, to a president who consistently lies, who has spilled classified information to an adversary, and who fired the FBI director who was investigating his administration?
posted by zachlipton at 1:59 PM on June 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
A slow Sunday around the pad, so how about another drawing of Trump, this time as a 7 year learning to bullshit his way out of trouble.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 2:04 PM on June 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 2:04 PM on June 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Charles Entertainment Cheese"
It's not without its charm.
posted by petebest at 2:07 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's not without its charm.
posted by petebest at 2:07 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
2. If you impeach Trump, will you not lose the midterm bump? If moderate Republicans / center-right independents think the rot is excised will they not just return to voting Republican?
Doesn't matter, the importance of seeing justice and the rule of law through makes political considerations a distant second priority - trying to ride out the authoritarian Trump phenomenon to see what political bonuses shake out is what the bad guys are doing here, and we should not join them.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:12 PM on June 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
Doesn't matter, the importance of seeing justice and the rule of law through makes political considerations a distant second priority - trying to ride out the authoritarian Trump phenomenon to see what political bonuses shake out is what the bad guys are doing here, and we should not join them.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:12 PM on June 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
I've seen a ton of comments today saying that it might very well violate NY ethics laws for him to do that.
American Bar Association Model Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 4.3: Dealing with Unrepresented Person (also NY State Bar)
American Bar Association Model Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 4.3: Dealing with Unrepresented Person (also NY State Bar)
In dealing on behalf of a client with a person who is not represented by counsel, a lawyer shall not state or imply that the lawyer is disinterested. When the lawyer knows or reasonably should know that the unrepresented person misunderstands the lawyer’s role in the matter, the lawyer shall make reasonable efforts to correct the misunderstanding. The lawyer shall not give legal advice to an unrepresented person, other than the advice to secure counsel, if the lawyer knows or reasonably should know that the interests of such a person are or have a reasonable possibility of being in conflict with the interests of the client.posted by scalefree at 2:17 PM on June 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Ok, this is the best use of bus advertising I think I've ever seen, and it's too good not to share. (If gifv doesn't work for you, delete the "v" and reload.)
posted by loquacious at 2:19 PM on June 11, 2017 [52 favorites]
posted by loquacious at 2:19 PM on June 11, 2017 [52 favorites]
John Mulaney did Colbert and dropped an amazing analogy about what it's like to follow this chaos:
To me, it’s like there’s a horse loose in a hospital. Like I think everything’s going to be okay, but I have no idea what’s going to happen next. And none of you know either. We’ve all never not known together. And on the news they try to get people like, “We’ve got a man here who once saw a bird in an airport” and we’re like, “Get the hell out of here. This is a horse loose in a hospital.”posted by zachlipton at 2:24 PM on June 11, 2017 [134 favorites]
It’s not good. It’s confusing because every day we just have to follow the horse, and some days it’s like, “The horse used the elevator?” You know those days when you’re like, “Is the horse smart?” And then we’re all just like, “Why hasn’t the horse-catcher caught the horse?” and then the horse is like, “I have fired the horse-catcher.” (transcribed by UPROXX)
Russia Probe: Fve People Lawmakers want to hear from next
Flynn, Sessions, Kushner, Page/Stone/Manafort (they count as one because listicles), and . . . Susan Rice.
Instead, Rice has become the target of perhaps the Hill's only former Russia investigator: House intelligence committee Chairman Devin Nunes.
Nunes, who still holds considerable power to direct investigations and issue subpoenas on his own, sent subpoenas to the CIA, FBI and NSA seeking details on who Rice, former UN Ambassador Samantha Powers and former CIA Director John Brennan sought to have "unmasked" -- or identify redacted names in collected intelligence -- in reports.
Nunes, in a rare public statement about the Russia probe and his work on the House intelligence committee tweeted at the time, "Seeing a lot of fake news from media elites and others who have no interest in violations of Americans' civil liberties via unmaskings."
Shockingly, obstructionist bullshit from a Congressional Republican.
posted by petebest at 2:25 PM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
Flynn, Sessions, Kushner, Page/Stone/Manafort (they count as one because listicles), and . . . Susan Rice.
Instead, Rice has become the target of perhaps the Hill's only former Russia investigator: House intelligence committee Chairman Devin Nunes.
Nunes, who still holds considerable power to direct investigations and issue subpoenas on his own, sent subpoenas to the CIA, FBI and NSA seeking details on who Rice, former UN Ambassador Samantha Powers and former CIA Director John Brennan sought to have "unmasked" -- or identify redacted names in collected intelligence -- in reports.
Nunes, in a rare public statement about the Russia probe and his work on the House intelligence committee tweeted at the time, "Seeing a lot of fake news from media elites and others who have no interest in violations of Americans' civil liberties via unmaskings."
Shockingly, obstructionist bullshit from a Congressional Republican.
posted by petebest at 2:25 PM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I hope I'm wrong, but I will be very surprised if Puerto Rico votes for statehood.
The anti-statehood parties have all boycotted the election in an attempt to delegitimize it. Pro-statehood seems poised to win a staggering landslide but with very low turnout:
Partial results: Most voters in Puerto Rico back statehood
The anti-statehood parties have all boycotted the election in an attempt to delegitimize it. Pro-statehood seems poised to win a staggering landslide but with very low turnout:
Partial results: Most voters in Puerto Rico back statehood
More than 480,000 votes were cast for statehood, more than 7,500 for free association/independence and more than 6,500 for independence, with roughly half of polling centers reporting. The participation rate was nearly 23 percent with roughly 2.26 million registered voters.posted by scalefree at 2:29 PM on June 11, 2017
So about the same proportion of the PR population voted for statehood as US population voted for Trump? Works for me.
posted by rikschell at 2:37 PM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 2:37 PM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
horse loose in a hospital
This reminds me of Jess McIntosh's prediction of Trump's candidacy as being like fighting a "monkey with a gun":
This reminds me of Jess McIntosh's prediction of Trump's candidacy as being like fighting a "monkey with a gun":
posted by pjenks at 2:39 PM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yeah you're a person so you're probably going to beat the monkey, but the monkey's got a gun and you have no idea what it's going to do with it.
To me, it’s like there’s a horse loose in a hospital.
Mulvaney knows his hip hop. General Hospital from Dr. Octagonecologyst by Dr. Octagon aka Kool Keith:
Mulvaney knows his hip hop. General Hospital from Dr. Octagonecologyst by Dr. Octagon aka Kool Keith:
Dr. Octagon, please come to the office, come nowposted by scalefree at 2:42 PM on June 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
Oh fuck! Patient just died in room 105
Cirrhosis of the eye
Nurse come in, please where are you?
Fuck it he's dead
Oh shit there's a horse in the hospital!
Horspital.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:44 PM on June 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:44 PM on June 11, 2017 [18 favorites]
monkey beats person 9/10 times, even without the gun, fwiw.
posted by some loser at 2:45 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by some loser at 2:45 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
As so often, the lesson here seems to be: don't underestimate the monkey.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:47 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:47 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Serious question: What're we supposed to do if we're all mainly just a bunch of rather dangerously silly monkeys?
posted by loquacious at 2:58 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by loquacious at 2:58 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Video: holy shit: altright nazi loser who thinks frog memes put trump in office vs the nazis who actually put him in office [cw for armed oathkeeper thugs grabbing an alt-right guy]
Features amazing 2017-is-so-fucked-these-are-things-people-say quotes like "but these are good memes" and "this is not comic con."
posted by zachlipton at 3:46 PM on June 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
Features amazing 2017-is-so-fucked-these-are-things-people-say quotes like "but these are good memes" and "this is not comic con."
posted by zachlipton at 3:46 PM on June 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
Doesn't matter, the importance of seeing justice and the rule of law through makes political considerations a distant second priority - trying to ride out the authoritarian Trump phenomenon to see what political bonuses shake out is what the bad guys are doing here, and we should not join them.
Impeaching Trump is clearly both desirable and necessary. I'm just saying it's not going to be any kind of victory. I'm having trouble imagining how impeaching Trump doesn't finish up with the forces that want oligarchy or fascism closer to their goal. That's even if impeaching Trump happens peacefully. I think confidence in that is misplaced.
posted by lastobelus at 3:50 PM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Impeaching Trump is clearly both desirable and necessary. I'm just saying it's not going to be any kind of victory. I'm having trouble imagining how impeaching Trump doesn't finish up with the forces that want oligarchy or fascism closer to their goal. That's even if impeaching Trump happens peacefully. I think confidence in that is misplaced.
posted by lastobelus at 3:50 PM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can you imaging how difficult it's going to be for all these people to find white shoe firms able to handle this clusterfuck but not be drawn into any conflict of interest?
How many hours can the average staffer afford?
posted by mikelieman at 3:51 PM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
How many hours can the average staffer afford?
posted by mikelieman at 3:51 PM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I believe the James Comey leaks will be far more prevalent than anyone ever thought possible
As much as I appreciate pile-on-trump, it seems clear to me he meant the future perfect: "I believe the James Comey leaks will turn out to have been far more prevalent than anyone ever thought possible"
posted by lastobelus at 3:57 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
As much as I appreciate pile-on-trump, it seems clear to me he meant the future perfect: "I believe the James Comey leaks will turn out to have been far more prevalent than anyone ever thought possible"
posted by lastobelus at 3:57 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Video: holy shit: altright nazi loser who thinks frog memes put trump in office vs the nazis who actually put him in office [cw for armed oathkeeper thugs grabbing an alt-right guy]
The fact that these groups are failing to unify and synthesize a cohesive and competent paramilitary force is pretty encouraging. It's just so nice to see them grappling over memes instead of hammering out the details of the new shared uniforms.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:59 PM on June 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
The fact that these groups are failing to unify and synthesize a cohesive and competent paramilitary force is pretty encouraging. It's just so nice to see them grappling over memes instead of hammering out the details of the new shared uniforms.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:59 PM on June 11, 2017 [34 favorites]
wow. that nazi fight video is like a little story about crowd violence. I've no idea what the flag nazi was upset about, but the other nazis at first order him to get out, then one alpha nazi says to the mad nazi, "you're leaving here one way or another" while advancing on him. Then another nazi snaps and goes for the chokehold.
In fairness to the other nazis, at the chokehold there's a lot of 'whoa let him go,' but the video is interesting in how violence breaks out. One asshole emboldens another, more violent asshole.
I guess it's easier to see in this video because I have no idea what they're fighting about, so it's more a study of crowd psychology
posted by angrycat at 4:04 PM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
In fairness to the other nazis, at the chokehold there's a lot of 'whoa let him go,' but the video is interesting in how violence breaks out. One asshole emboldens another, more violent asshole.
I guess it's easier to see in this video because I have no idea what they're fighting about, so it's more a study of crowd psychology
posted by angrycat at 4:04 PM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
I know we don't like single links to tweets and links to images around here, and this is both of those things, but I think it's important as a sign of the times that we live in:
https://twitter.com/nbondasu/status/874025008875446272
To save you the click, it's an advertisment for Smirnoff Vodka (proudly bottled in Allen Park, MI), that reads: "Made in America, But we'd be happy to talk about our ties to Russia under oath."
That's utterly fascinating.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 4:09 PM on June 11, 2017 [75 favorites]
https://twitter.com/nbondasu/status/874025008875446272
To save you the click, it's an advertisment for Smirnoff Vodka (proudly bottled in Allen Park, MI), that reads: "Made in America, But we'd be happy to talk about our ties to Russia under oath."
That's utterly fascinating.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 4:09 PM on June 11, 2017 [75 favorites]
Just saw this gem of a commercial
(It's an anti-John Osoff commercial linking him to Kathy Griffin, Samuel L Jackson (why?), Bernie Sanders, and Nancy Pelosi, while calling Trump protesters whiny children. Including Griffin holding the head.
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:19 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
(It's an anti-John Osoff commercial linking him to Kathy Griffin, Samuel L Jackson (why?), Bernie Sanders, and Nancy Pelosi, while calling Trump protesters whiny children. Including Griffin holding the head.
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:19 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Exciting news, infrastructure fans. Fox is going to interview legendary civil engineer Ivanka Trump!
Fox News will start off the new week by holding an exclusive interview with Ivanka Trump.
Fox News will start off the new week by holding an exclusive interview with Ivanka Trump.
The White House adviser and daughter to President Trump will speak with Fox & Friends in order to discuss her father’s plans for infrastructure reform and workforce development. The first daughter is also expected to give her reaction to James Comey‘s testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee.posted by Room 641-A at 4:24 PM on June 11, 2017
Samuel L Jackson (why?)
He cut an ad for Osseff, I mean beyond the obvious, "because he's black".
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:27 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
He cut an ad for Osseff, I mean beyond the obvious, "because he's black".
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:27 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The vodka ad is amazing. Is there any site keeping track of advertising from large-ish corporate entities which mocks or takes a stance against Trump?
Feels like that would be a leading indicator of the public's breaking point with Trump. Possibly even more than the approval ratings. When the pro-Trump crowd is small enough that advertisers wouldn't be afraid of pissing them off, and when the resist crowd is large enough and passionate enough that they're seen as a viable source of dollars. I guess we've already seen the latter with Pepsi's misstep, but will be interesting to see if the trickle of ads becomes a flood.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:32 PM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Feels like that would be a leading indicator of the public's breaking point with Trump. Possibly even more than the approval ratings. When the pro-Trump crowd is small enough that advertisers wouldn't be afraid of pissing them off, and when the resist crowd is large enough and passionate enough that they're seen as a viable source of dollars. I guess we've already seen the latter with Pepsi's misstep, but will be interesting to see if the trickle of ads becomes a flood.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:32 PM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
As the Tony Awards start in a short bit (PSA: now on Fanfare for your discussing pleasure, thanks Eyebrows!), Delta Airlines has withdrawn their sponsorship of the Public Theater after Fox News reported NYC Play Appears to Depict Assassination of Trump. The "NYC Play" in question is Julius Caesar at Shakespeare in the Park, which features a depiction of Caesar that some may find familiar. Oskar Eustis's program note makes the connection to modern times.
Reports that the Secret Service is investigating William Shakespeare could not be confirmed at press time. [fake]
posted by zachlipton at 4:43 PM on June 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Reports that the Secret Service is investigating William Shakespeare could not be confirmed at press time. [fake]
posted by zachlipton at 4:43 PM on June 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Speaking of testifying under oath;
Olivia Beavers, TheHill; Schumer invites Trump to testify before Senate
Olivia Beavers, TheHill; Schumer invites Trump to testify before Senate
Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) on Sunday invited President Trump to testify about his claims that former FBI Director James Comey lied under oath.posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 4:54 PM on June 11, 2017 [21 favorites]
“I’d like to invite the president to testify before the Senate,” Schumer told host John Dickerson on CBS News's “Face the Nation.”
Schumer said Trump could clear up the “cloud” surrounding his presidency if he testifies or publicly releases the tapes he alluded to documenting his interactions with former FBI Director James Comey.
“There are two ways to clear up that cloud. One, if there are tapes, he alluded to the fact that there are tapes, maybe as a threat or taunting Comey. He should make them public right away. If there aren't tapes, he should let that be known. No more game playing,” Schumer said.
"And of course, he said he would testify. So I'm inviting him to come testify, and we could work that out,” Schumer continued, adding that the president appears to be taking the issue “almost a little bit lightly.”
Back to the vodka ad for a moment; I found the original source. @librarian_kate who states:
"And b/c someone rightfully asked: this was not photoshopped. This was on a Metro North (NYC commuter rail) platform."
with a wonderful followup from @mcbc stating:
"Yup! And it's even deeper because the drink shown ... is a Moscow Mule."
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:04 PM on June 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
"And b/c someone rightfully asked: this was not photoshopped. This was on a Metro North (NYC commuter rail) platform."
with a wonderful followup from @mcbc stating:
"Yup! And it's even deeper because the drink shown ... is a Moscow Mule."
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:04 PM on June 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
The "NYC Play" in question is Julius Caesar at Shakespeare in the Park, which features a depiction of Caesar that some may find familiar. Oskar Eustis's program note makes the connection to modern times.
Well this is just ridiculous. Caesar was an accomplished professional.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:10 PM on June 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
Well this is just ridiculous. Caesar was an accomplished professional.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:10 PM on June 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
The Puerto Rico election went 97% in favor of statehood, but with only around 24% voting.
Which, regrettably, gives the R's a semi-legitimate reason to reject Puerto Rican statehood, and they'll take it.
posted by sotonohito at 5:11 PM on June 11, 2017
Which, regrettably, gives the R's a semi-legitimate reason to reject Puerto Rican statehood, and they'll take it.
posted by sotonohito at 5:11 PM on June 11, 2017
Does anyone know anything about the flag the alt-right guy was carrying in the nazi-vs-nazi video?
Is it some permutation of the kekistani flag, or is it something else?
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 5:13 PM on June 11, 2017
Is it some permutation of the kekistani flag, or is it something else?
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 5:13 PM on June 11, 2017
If 99% of PR's population voted, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't make any difference to the Republicans.
posted by emjaybee at 5:14 PM on June 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 5:14 PM on June 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
Looks like an american flag with a black sun instead of the states: black sun is some naz d&d shit
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 5:16 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 5:16 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
To save you the click, it's an advertisment for Smirnoff Vodka (proudly bottled in Allen Park, MI), that reads: "Made in America, But we'd be happy to talk about our ties to Russia under oath."
That's utterly fascinating.
Sign of the times and good marketing. As an occasional vodka drinker I can admit that they hit my ads that actually work sweet spot. Bravo ad people. Made me actually think that next time I'm gonna seriously consider buying Smirnoff.
posted by Jalliah at 5:16 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's utterly fascinating.
Sign of the times and good marketing. As an occasional vodka drinker I can admit that they hit my ads that actually work sweet spot. Bravo ad people. Made me actually think that next time I'm gonna seriously consider buying Smirnoff.
posted by Jalliah at 5:16 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Did someone request a news dump?
Matthew Haag, NYT; Preet Bharara Says Trump Tried to Build Relationship With Him Before Firing
Matthew Haag, NYT; Preet Bharara Says Trump Tried to Build Relationship With Him Before Firing
Preet Bharara, the former United States attorney in Manhattan, said on Sunday that President Trump tried to cultivate a relationship with him in the months before he was abruptly fired in March.posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:21 PM on June 11, 2017 [55 favorites]
Mr. Bharara said the contacts with Mr. Trump made him increasingly uncomfortable because they broke with longstanding Justice Department rules on communicating with the White House. Mr. Bharara, who first publicly disclosed the contacts and his concerns about them after he was fired, said Mr. Trump’s communications were strikingly similar to those between the president and those described by the former F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, who was fired last month.
“When I’ve been reading the stories of how the president has been contacting Jim Comey over time, felt a little bit like déjà vu,” Mr. Bharara said Sunday on “This Week” on ABC.
Schumer invites Trump to testify before Senate
Bluff called.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:35 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Daily Beast: Team Trump Deploys ‘Comey Is a P*ssy’ Blitz
posted by zachlipton at 5:49 PM on June 11, 2017 [65 favorites]
It’s the president personally getting in on what one senior Trump administration official described to The Daily Beast as the “‘Comey is a pussy’ offensive.”This, in particular the choice of word of this anonymous official, is incredibly fucked up.
“It minimizes [Comey and] undermines the seriousness of his testimony and claims,” the official noted, chuckling. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity so as to speak freely.
...
Now, it’s James Comey’s turn.
"One of the easier ways…to get the president's good praise and attention on TV is to go out and say that Comey is a sniveling coward and doesn't have the guts like a Donald Trump," the Republican source and Trump confidant said.
posted by zachlipton at 5:49 PM on June 11, 2017 [65 favorites]
"When he said that the president lied about him and he used the L-word, Comey was lying. How do we know? Look at all of the things he said. That was ridiculous to not have done a memo, and then I heard him say he had done the memo and then he talked with some of his colleagues." - Louie Gohmert
"Mrs. Krabappel and Principal Skinner were in the closet making babies, and I saw one of the babies, and then the baby looked at me." - Ralph Wiggum
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:54 PM on June 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
"Mrs. Krabappel and Principal Skinner were in the closet making babies, and I saw one of the babies, and then the baby looked at me." - Ralph Wiggum
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:54 PM on June 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
This, in particular the choice of word of this anonymous official, is incredibly fucked up.
Ya, I hate it when people use 'pussy' to mean weak. First, because it's extremely demeaning to be-pussied people, and second, because pussies are frickin' strong: they have strength to accommodate dicks of many sizes and birth babies!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:55 PM on June 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Ya, I hate it when people use 'pussy' to mean weak. First, because it's extremely demeaning to be-pussied people, and second, because pussies are frickin' strong: they have strength to accommodate dicks of many sizes and birth babies!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:55 PM on June 11, 2017 [20 favorites]
Mrs. Krabappel and Principal Skinner were in the closet making babies, and I saw one of the babies, and then the baby looked at me."
Omg you read my mind.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:57 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Omg you read my mind.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:57 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm going to backtrack there on further reflection. Please substitute "in incredibly poor taste, inappropriate, and utterly unpresidential" for "incredibly fucked up." I was looking to emphasize how awful it is, but yeah, it just came out wrong in this context.
posted by zachlipton at 5:59 PM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 5:59 PM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Comey is a pussy’ offensive.”
I've been seeing that line on right wing media. I leave comments along the lines of "If failing to stand up to Trump makes you weak, then this magazine is on bed rest. Even now you are complaining about Comey calling him out too late, rather than calling him out yourselves."
There is a weird take in a lot of these pieces where they admit Trump is disgusting, but try to blame Democrats for him in some way. It's very "look what you made me do."
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:02 PM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
I've been seeing that line on right wing media. I leave comments along the lines of "If failing to stand up to Trump makes you weak, then this magazine is on bed rest. Even now you are complaining about Comey calling him out too late, rather than calling him out yourselves."
There is a weird take in a lot of these pieces where they admit Trump is disgusting, but try to blame Democrats for him in some way. It's very "look what you made me do."
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:02 PM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
How many times a day do you think Gohmert just straight up forgets who he is
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:02 PM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:02 PM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Inside the Great Deku Tree...
Parasitic Intractable Reactionary GOHMERT
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:05 PM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
Parasitic Intractable Reactionary GOHMERT
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:05 PM on June 11, 2017 [5 favorites]
It minimizes [Comey and] undermines the seriousness of his testimony and claims,” the official noted, chuckling. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity so as to speak freely.
Well, if you have to explain the joke. . .
posted by rc3spencer at 6:08 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, if you have to explain the joke. . .
posted by rc3spencer at 6:08 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Preet Bharara Says Trump Tried to Build Relationship With Him Before Firing
Well, what am I supposed to do? You won't answer my calls, you change your number. I mean, I'm not gonna be ignored, Preet!
posted by kirkaracha at 6:14 PM on June 11, 2017 [13 favorites]
“It minimizes [Comey and] undermines the seriousness of his testimony and claims,” the official noted, chuckling.
"It enrages every single federal law enforcement and intelligence professional in the Comey fan club and makes them redouble their efforts to dismantle this appalling excuse for an administration," the MeFite noted, grinning beatifically. Keep up the good work, assholes!
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:15 PM on June 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
"It enrages every single federal law enforcement and intelligence professional in the Comey fan club and makes them redouble their efforts to dismantle this appalling excuse for an administration," the MeFite noted, grinning beatifically. Keep up the good work, assholes!
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:15 PM on June 11, 2017 [36 favorites]
Sessions Moves to the Center of the Russia Story (Josh Marshall, TPM)
What else can we say about this new development? For a variety of reasons I think this is a major part of the overall Russia story, or at least circumstances tied to its investigation and Comey deliberately pushed it into the record when the questions he was asked did not specifically require him to.posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:26 PM on June 11, 2017 [23 favorites]
Let’s look at how this came to light. One might guess that it arose in the back and forth of Comey’s testimony. But a close read strongly suggests that is not the case. Comey seems to have quite intentionally revealed information that the Senators did not yet know and just as intentionally revealed the existence of that information to the public.
[We also were] aware of facts that I can’t discuss in an opening setting that would make his continued engagement in a Russia-related investigation problematic.
I refuse to denounce Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III as a perjurer, a liar, a racist, or a traitor. In open session.
WINK
posted by petebest at 6:33 PM on June 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
I refuse to denounce Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III as a perjurer, a liar, a racist, or a traitor. In open session.
WINK
posted by petebest at 6:33 PM on June 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Jeff Sessions is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:53 PM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:53 PM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
“She did not get convicted for laughing. It was her actions as she was being asked to leave,” the jury foreperson said. “We did not agree that she should have been removed for laughing."
Rich old white guy perjury though - A-OK!
posted by petebest at 6:56 PM on June 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
Rich old white guy perjury though - A-OK!
posted by petebest at 6:56 PM on June 11, 2017 [19 favorites]
There is a weird take in a lot of these pieces where they admit Trump is disgusting, but try to blame Democrats for him in some way. It's very "look what you made me do."
Everything they do overlaps pretty much 1:1 with the language of abuse.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:58 PM on June 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
Everything they do overlaps pretty much 1:1 with the language of abuse.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:58 PM on June 11, 2017 [39 favorites]
John Hertzler, who many know as Chancellor Martok on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and I know as the director of a college production of Biloxi Blues I did the sound design for in 2010, has announced that he is running for Tom Reed's seat in Congress (NY-23), and will sometimes campaign in the persona of Mark Twain. So that will be interesting.
posted by zachlipton at 7:00 PM on June 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:00 PM on June 11, 2017 [43 favorites]
So that will be interesting.
If he campaigns as Martok he's a shoo-in. Plus, this would allow him to accuse various Trumpists of being Changeling replacements, working for the Dominion.
posted by nonasuch at 7:06 PM on June 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
If he campaigns as Martok he's a shoo-in. Plus, this would allow him to accuse various Trumpists of being Changeling replacements, working for the Dominion.
posted by nonasuch at 7:06 PM on June 11, 2017 [28 favorites]
Tom Reed is a huge asshole. I'm down, Twain cosplay or no.
posted by obloquy at 7:20 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by obloquy at 7:20 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
If he campaigns as Martok he's a shoo-in. Plus, this would allow him to accuse various Trumpists of being Changeling replacements, working for the Dominion.
Yes but will he deliver Twain's lines in the original Klingon?
posted by scalefree at 7:50 PM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Yes but will he deliver Twain's lines in the original Klingon?
posted by scalefree at 7:50 PM on June 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
From the TPM link:
Mysteries like these, new hidden information coming to the fore simply don’t happen when there’s not something big at the center of the story.
I don't see how the ultimate sin here isn't explicit coordination between the Trump campaign and Russian foreign agents. I'm talking explicit policy concessions offered in exchange for direct deployment of Russian intelligence assets against the US media and Clinton campaign. There's already direct evidence of changing the Republican platform. There's countless unexplainable actions that make no sense in context of any previous US foreign policy. We have plenty of evidence of the pay off from Trump. We have evidence of the ask from Trump publicly. We have evidence of the intervention by Russia.
The only thing we don't have is direct evidence of who made the specific overtures, and what specific pieces of information sharing were done to execute the conspiracy. That's the only piece that's not public. Everything else is out there. When the story of collusion lines up this clearly, it's hard to imagine that the last piece isn't coming, and may already be known in the intel community.
Of course that's still not enough to result in impeachment from Republicans who have already signed off on the results of treason and sold our national sovereignty to Russia in exchange for tax cuts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:52 PM on June 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Mysteries like these, new hidden information coming to the fore simply don’t happen when there’s not something big at the center of the story.
I don't see how the ultimate sin here isn't explicit coordination between the Trump campaign and Russian foreign agents. I'm talking explicit policy concessions offered in exchange for direct deployment of Russian intelligence assets against the US media and Clinton campaign. There's already direct evidence of changing the Republican platform. There's countless unexplainable actions that make no sense in context of any previous US foreign policy. We have plenty of evidence of the pay off from Trump. We have evidence of the ask from Trump publicly. We have evidence of the intervention by Russia.
The only thing we don't have is direct evidence of who made the specific overtures, and what specific pieces of information sharing were done to execute the conspiracy. That's the only piece that's not public. Everything else is out there. When the story of collusion lines up this clearly, it's hard to imagine that the last piece isn't coming, and may already be known in the intel community.
Of course that's still not enough to result in impeachment from Republicans who have already signed off on the results of treason and sold our national sovereignty to Russia in exchange for tax cuts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:52 PM on June 11, 2017 [15 favorites]
Pwned on the Fourth of July: Trump Tells Priebus to Fix Administration by Independence Day or be Replaced by Lewandowski (Politico)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:59 PM on June 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:59 PM on June 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
There's no way they can fix the White House by July 4th, impeachment just isn't that fast
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:01 PM on June 11, 2017 [44 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:01 PM on June 11, 2017 [44 favorites]
Everything they do overlaps pretty much 1:1 with the language of abuse.
Except with Trump there is often no mapping required
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:03 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
Except with Trump there is often no mapping required
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:03 PM on June 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
...or be Replaced by Lewandowski (Politico)
That will definitely improve things.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:05 PM on June 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
That will definitely improve things.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:05 PM on June 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Breaking: MD & DC Attorneys General are suing Trump over Emoluments. MD General Assembly voted in Feb to give AG power to sue Trump without Gov's approval. It's Chekov's Resolution.
posted by scalefree at 8:09 PM on June 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 8:09 PM on June 11, 2017 [16 favorites]
Thanks to iPhone Safari I just got the title of this post and it's pretty great
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:12 PM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:12 PM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm also not confidant that impeaching Trump happens without violence. A minority of, and perhaps even a significant percentage of his political base are ready for violence. Not in some vague theoretical sense, but in the sense that they have stockpiled weapons & supplies and trained for it.
... you will have literal riots in the streets if Trump’s removed, far beyond anything you’ve seen from Democrat constituency groups like Black Lives Matter. Trump supporters have had it with the establishment, and are unlikely to go along quietly with a system they regard as deeply corrupt and devoted to their destruction. To the extent it’s interested in impeachment, the anti-Trump establishment, which likes to present itself as responsible and sensible, is playing with fire here, in a room full of gasoline that the establishment itself has pumped. - Instapundit, May 16, 2017.
Of course it will be the"anti-Trump establishment's" fault.
posted by longdaysjourney at 8:13 PM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
You don't refrain from doing right and necessary things because some assholes will react terribly to it. The reasons for that should be extremely obvious to anyone but an idiot.
Oh wait, it's Glenn Reynolds.
posted by Justinian at 8:19 PM on June 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
Oh wait, it's Glenn Reynolds.
posted by Justinian at 8:19 PM on June 11, 2017 [42 favorites]
You don't refrain from doing right and necessary things because some assholes will react terribly to it. The reasons for that should be extremely obvious to anyone but an idiot.
Oh wait, it's Glenn Reynolds.
Yeah I had someone try to tell me that Macron and Merkel et al should have known that being mean to him would make him mad and more likely to drop out of the Paris agreement. It's all their fault for not sucking up to him.
posted by Jalliah at 8:25 PM on June 11, 2017 [7 favorites]
Josh Marshall, Talking Points Memo: Finding out that Sekulow is on the Trump team too raises real questions about whether Trump will have anyone on the team with a skillset suited to the kind of storm he’s entering. My best guess is that apart from Kasowitz where the issue is trust, Trump is hiring based on political allegiance, demonstrated aggressiveness and a willingness to tell the client what he wants to hear.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:25 PM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:25 PM on June 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah I had someone try to tell me that Macron and Merkel et al should have known that being mean to him would make him mad and more likely to drop out of the Paris agreement. It's all their fault for not sucking up to him.
It's all America's fault for not awarding him the popular vote
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:28 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's all America's fault for not awarding him the popular vote
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:28 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
It all depends on what Trump's objective is. Everybody keeps assuming Trump's objectives are political or ideological. I still say it's his narcissism that's running the show. He wants a spectacle with himself at the center of global attention. Sekulow can give him that, he can stir the shit like nobody's business.
posted by scalefree at 8:31 PM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 8:31 PM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
Plus there's that whole "nobody else wants the job" thing.
posted by scalefree at 8:32 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 8:32 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
... you will have literal riots in the streets if Trump’s removed, far beyond anything you’ve seen from Democrat constituency groups like Black Lives Matter. Trump supporters have had it with the establishment, and are unlikely to go along quietly with a system they regard as deeply corrupt and devoted to their destruction
Note that this will also equally be the case if we vote in a Democratic majority in 2018, and/or vote him out of office in 2020. And if he's reelected, then they'll be emboldened to commit violence with impunity against those they perceive as weakened and vulnerable enemies.
The ONLY way this doesn't end in violence is if the Trumpists are so demoralized and tired that they simply don't have the will to fight. And to that end, we have to keep the pressure up.
posted by happyroach at 8:36 PM on June 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
Note that this will also equally be the case if we vote in a Democratic majority in 2018, and/or vote him out of office in 2020. And if he's reelected, then they'll be emboldened to commit violence with impunity against those they perceive as weakened and vulnerable enemies.
The ONLY way this doesn't end in violence is if the Trumpists are so demoralized and tired that they simply don't have the will to fight. And to that end, we have to keep the pressure up.
posted by happyroach at 8:36 PM on June 11, 2017 [25 favorites]
Just Glenn Reynolds advocating political violence from his position as a state employee of Tennessee. Must be Monday.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:36 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:36 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Josh Marshall, Talking Points Memo: Finding out that Sekulow is on the Trump team too raises real questions about whether Trump will have anyone on the team with a skillset suited to the kind of storm he’s entering. My best guess is that apart from Kasowitz where the issue is trust, Trump is hiring based on political allegiance, demonstrated aggressiveness and a willingness to tell the client what he wants to hear.
This will end well.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:37 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
This will end well.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:37 PM on June 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
I hung out with my little cousins today at the lake. I was chatting with someone about Trump. Little six year piped up while he was throwing rocks, "Bah. I don't like him, he's a bad man who lies all the time and plays golf too much.'
So that is what is getting through to little Canadian six year olds. Pretty much sums it up.
posted by Jalliah at 8:37 PM on June 11, 2017 [48 favorites]
HuffPost [albeit with an odd "The views represented in this article are the author’s alone" disclaimer]: Trump Says Qatar Funds Terror. Here’s His Record Of Trying To Get It To Fund Him.
Therein lies the source of much consternation among Qataris. Several people interviewed for this piece expressed concern that Trump’s bias against their country might stem from a series of failed business overtures that he (along with his son-in-law Jared Kushner) made seven years ago, which are only now being reported. They did not go as swimmingly as the deals made with the Saudis and Emiratis.posted by zachlipton at 8:38 PM on June 11, 2017 [83 favorites]
...
A source close to the 2010 talks with Trump say he made the Doha stopover (along with stops in Dubai and Abu Dhabi) to raise money for a distressed real estate fund he was assembling. Trump opened the discussion with QIA by bragging about the success of Trump International and the many deals he had personally put together. Trump had hardly got through his own biography when Dr. Al-Abdullah, QIA’s senior executive, interrupted to say words to the effect of: We know who you are and what you have done. Tell us what you can do for us right now.
That single, curt interruption apparently left Trump stunned. He had expected his hosts to be impressed, if not grateful, that a person of Trump’s stature would visit the Qatari capital. Apparently distracted by the lack of decorum, Trump barely continued with his pitch. The meeting abruptly ended, according to one account, with Trump exiting the room visibly angered.
...
Today, with Trump allying himself and the United States with those blockading their tiny country, Qataris can’t help but wonder: is this all about Trump’s hurt feelings over business deals that didn’t pan out?
Trump had hardly got through his own biography when Dr. Al-Abdullah, QIA’s senior executive, interrupted to say words to the effect of: We know who you are and what you have done. Tell us what you can do for us right now.
The real fun starts when his approval ratings get to the point that Ryan and McConnell pull him aside and say the same thing.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:46 PM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
The real fun starts when his approval ratings get to the point that Ryan and McConnell pull him aside and say the same thing.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:46 PM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
is this all about Trump’s hurt feelings over business deals that didn’t pan out?
Isn't EVERYTHING about Trump's business deals? That IS the original Russian connection...
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:47 PM on June 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
Isn't EVERYTHING about Trump's business deals? That IS the original Russian connection...
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:47 PM on June 11, 2017 [22 favorites]
So that is what is getting through to little Canadian six year olds.
I have a five-year-old daughter who heard Trump on the radio condemning ISIS, and responded by shouting "YAY ISIS!!!". I had to explain that ISIS is even worse than Donald Trump if you can believe that.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:51 PM on June 11, 2017 [72 favorites]
I have a five-year-old daughter who heard Trump on the radio condemning ISIS, and responded by shouting "YAY ISIS!!!". I had to explain that ISIS is even worse than Donald Trump if you can believe that.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:51 PM on June 11, 2017 [72 favorites]
On that end of the continuum, it's hard to telll sometimes.
posted by some loser at 9:00 PM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by some loser at 9:00 PM on June 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
A neo-Nazi with explosives and a framed photo of Timothy McVeigh is not a threat, judge rules
posted by Talez at 9:11 PM on June 11, 2017 [77 favorites]
Brandon Russell is capable of making a bomb — and he admitted doing so.WHAT IN THE. White fucking privilege indeed.
Officials believe he also participated in neo-Nazi chat rooms where he threatened to kill people and blow up places.
[...]
In a ruling Friday, U.S. Magistrate Judge Thomas McCoun III of a federal-district court in Tampa said he does not believe there’s “clear and convincing evidence” that Russell is a threat to the community.
posted by Talez at 9:11 PM on June 11, 2017 [77 favorites]
I thought the problem with the Emoluments Clause was that nobody could have standing to sue under it; that the only remedy was impeachment? How are the attorneys general going to get around that?
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:11 PM on June 11, 2017
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:11 PM on June 11, 2017
next week nbc and megyn kelly will air an interview with alex jones, claiming Many don't know him; our job is 2 shine a light. Many are not happy, especially with regards to his Sandy Hook denial, and others have taken to shaming NBC on twitter.
this motherfucking world
posted by localhuman at 9:12 PM on June 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
this motherfucking world
posted by localhuman at 9:12 PM on June 11, 2017 [32 favorites]
I thought the problem with the Emoluments Clause was that nobody could have standing to sue under it; that the only remedy was impeachment?
Maybe yes, maybe no. From WaPo above:
Maybe yes, maybe no. From WaPo above:
The lawsuit by D.C. and Maryland will be the second major legal action related to emoluments. The first was filed in January by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), a D.C.-based watchdog group. Last week, a group of Democratic members of Congress said they also planned to file suit soon. Each, however, faces legal hurdles over standing to sue the president.posted by scalefree at 9:26 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maybe NBC wants Alex Jones to be the new host on Celebrity Apprentice.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:29 PM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:29 PM on June 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
How much does advertising go for during Megyn Kelly's show? How much money will she and NBC make with Alex Jones?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:52 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:52 PM on June 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
The only way that interview has any merit is if Kelly hammers Jones non-stop on Sandy Hook. Literally every question should be about it and his role in the grief it has caused for that community.
posted by PenDevil at 11:53 PM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 11:53 PM on June 11, 2017 [11 favorites]
I thought the problem with the Emoluments Clause was that nobody could have standing to sue under it; that the only remedy was impeachment? How are the attorneys general going to get around that?
I think the strategy is, "No-one is really sure, let's find out what the 8 actual Supreme Court Justices think."
posted by mikelieman at 11:58 PM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think the strategy is, "No-one is really sure, let's find out what the 8 actual Supreme Court Justices think."
posted by mikelieman at 11:58 PM on June 11, 2017 [10 favorites]
Josh Marshall, Talking Points Memo: Finding out that Sekulow is on the Trump team too raises real questions about whether Trump will have anyone on the team with a skillset suited to the kind of storm he’s entering.
Let's see, from the ACLJ's website:
Ex-FBI Director's Case Collapses Like a House of Cards
Demanding the U.N. Recognize and Stop the Genocide of Christians
Obama's State Department Grant Funds Used to Oppose Netanyahu
Stop Forcing Pro-life Centers to Promote Abortion
So you and I will just have to agree to disagree, Josh Marshall. I think Jay Sekulow is an awesome pick for Trump's legal team, and I urge the President not to let anybody tell him otherwise.
posted by Rykey at 12:03 AM on June 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
Sekulow is not a criminal attorney. He’s not a defense attorney. He’s not even an attorney with any specialty in litigating the particular legal privileges of a president. (My understanding is that he practiced as a tax litigator briefly after law school before getting into the right wing ‘religious liberty’ thing full time a generation ago.) Notably, Sekulow is also a big conservative media figure. He has a daily radio show and he’s a frequent guest on Fox and Christian conservative media.Sekulow, Sekulow... how do I know that name? Oh, FUCK, it's that asshole from the ACLJ I used to listen to on the radio to keep up with the evangelical wingnut talking points.
Let's see, from the ACLJ's website:
Ex-FBI Director's Case Collapses Like a House of Cards
Demanding the U.N. Recognize and Stop the Genocide of Christians
Obama's State Department Grant Funds Used to Oppose Netanyahu
Stop Forcing Pro-life Centers to Promote Abortion
So you and I will just have to agree to disagree, Josh Marshall. I think Jay Sekulow is an awesome pick for Trump's legal team, and I urge the President not to let anybody tell him otherwise.
posted by Rykey at 12:03 AM on June 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
Is there any site keeping track of advertising from large-ish corporate entities which mocks or takes a stance against Trump?
Feels like that would be a leading indicator of the public's breaking point with Trump. Possibly even more than the approval ratings. When the pro-Trump crowd is small enough that advertisers wouldn't be afraid of pissing them off, and when the resist crowd is large enough and passionate enough that they're seen as a viable source of dollars. I guess we've already seen the latter with Pepsi's misstep, but will be interesting to see if the trickle of ads becomes a flood.
Apple's release of the Carl Sagan-narrated ad "Earth" is being read as a response to the Paris agreement pull-out.
posted by progosk at 2:31 AM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Feels like that would be a leading indicator of the public's breaking point with Trump. Possibly even more than the approval ratings. When the pro-Trump crowd is small enough that advertisers wouldn't be afraid of pissing them off, and when the resist crowd is large enough and passionate enough that they're seen as a viable source of dollars. I guess we've already seen the latter with Pepsi's misstep, but will be interesting to see if the trickle of ads becomes a flood.
Apple's release of the Carl Sagan-narrated ad "Earth" is being read as a response to the Paris agreement pull-out.
posted by progosk at 2:31 AM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
btw: might well be that Smirnoff's ad folks got their inspiration via Trump's own vodka. (Bonus: bottle&logo designer Milton Glaser's hindsight on it...)
posted by progosk at 3:20 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by progosk at 3:20 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Rykey, some of us Dems were cautiously welcoming of Trump as candidate, "Go ahead and nominate the lunatic who can never win rather than the evil politician who will be able to get the agenda through." I think all of us were chastened by the reality that there is no one so crazy they cannot win. Letting adults run things is better than spoiled man-children. Can we all agree on that now?
posted by rikschell at 3:24 AM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 3:24 AM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump and the True Meaning of ‘Idiot’
It's a NYTimes opinion piece, but it reminded me of something I also thought about before the election (and mentioned deep in a mega-thread here), that Trump reminds me of my stupid boomer uncle who went bankrupt with the family business after sucking a huge amount of cash out of it for himself and his gold digger wife. One of the things that drives me crazy about my uncle and reminds me of Trump is his language. As the article says:
It's a NYTimes opinion piece, but it reminded me of something I also thought about before the election (and mentioned deep in a mega-thread here), that Trump reminds me of my stupid boomer uncle who went bankrupt with the family business after sucking a huge amount of cash out of it for himself and his gold digger wife. One of the things that drives me crazy about my uncle and reminds me of Trump is his language. As the article says:
The idiot speaks only in idioms, though these function for him not as colorful additions to a language or culture, but are understood by him alone. To members of the community, his utterances are the babblings of a baby or a madman, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.posted by mumimor at 3:44 AM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
The idiot speaks only in idioms, though these function for him not as colorful additions to a language or culture, but are understood by him alone. To members of the community, his utterances are the babblings of a baby or a madman, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
My earliest impression of Trump was "Evil Michael Scott", and that continues.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:57 AM on June 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
My earliest impression of Trump was "Evil Michael Scott", and that continues.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:57 AM on June 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Covfefe, when the walls fell.
posted by delfin at 4:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by delfin at 4:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [36 favorites]
At this point, I feel like Covfefe just makes him stronger. At the very least, it definitely doesn't hurt him.
posted by bootlegpop at 4:05 AM on June 12, 2017
posted by bootlegpop at 4:05 AM on June 12, 2017
I hope that no one seriously expected covfefe to bring him down. But it did provide some sorely needed comic relief.
We all need a laugh sometimes. Or at least a snicker.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:29 AM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
We all need a laugh sometimes. Or at least a snicker.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:29 AM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Rykey, some of us Dems were cautiously welcoming of Trump as candidate, "Go ahead and nominate the lunatic who can never win rather than the evil politician who will be able to get the agenda through." I think all of us were chastened by the reality that there is no one so crazy they cannot win. Letting adults run things is better than spoiled man-children. Can we all agree on that now?
Oh, definitely. The difference for me is that Sekulow isn't a candidate, he's somebody Trump's chosen for legal representation. His value lies strictly in his lawyering abilities versus the FBI's and the courts', not on his approval with voters, and given his lack of experience and his bent toward the fantastical, I'm thrilled that he's been picked for his loyalty rather than for his abilities.
posted by Rykey at 4:40 AM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
Oh, definitely. The difference for me is that Sekulow isn't a candidate, he's somebody Trump's chosen for legal representation. His value lies strictly in his lawyering abilities versus the FBI's and the courts', not on his approval with voters, and given his lack of experience and his bent toward the fantastical, I'm thrilled that he's been picked for his loyalty rather than for his abilities.
posted by Rykey at 4:40 AM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
My earliest impression of Trump was "Evil Michael Scott", and that continues.
I recently started watching The Office for the first time all the way through, and it's really uncanny how accurate this is. Especially first-season Michael, who's a straight-up sociopath, as opposed to later on when he's just ineffectual and sometimes cluelessly offensive.
posted by teraflop at 4:41 AM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I recently started watching The Office for the first time all the way through, and it's really uncanny how accurate this is. Especially first-season Michael, who's a straight-up sociopath, as opposed to later on when he's just ineffectual and sometimes cluelessly offensive.
posted by teraflop at 4:41 AM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sekulow isn't a candidate, he's somebody Trump's chosen for legal representation. His value lies strictly in his lawyering abilities
Sekulow's value lies strictly in the signaling to some of Trump's base that he cares about their issues -- unlike the evil establishment figures who are out to get him.
posted by Slothrup at 4:44 AM on June 12, 2017
Sekulow's value lies strictly in the signaling to some of Trump's base that he cares about their issues -- unlike the evil establishment figures who are out to get him.
posted by Slothrup at 4:44 AM on June 12, 2017
Comey is Toby.
posted by EarBucket at 5:05 AM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by EarBucket at 5:05 AM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Let's be real here--many people laughed at covfefe because it signaled that the executive might have suffered a disabling cerebral event, and some people who hoped so publicly are disappointed in its aftermath. That's a level of poison in political discourse unmatched since well before any of us were alive.
posted by infinitewindow at 5:10 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 5:10 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah. I kind of felt like Covfefe died when he woke up and joked about it. If not then, Spicer definitely drove the last nail in. It will probably be covered in history, though, if there is history down the line.
posted by bootlegpop at 5:13 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by bootlegpop at 5:13 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Reckon Fukuyama was off by a few years?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:14 AM on June 12, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:14 AM on June 12, 2017
TMZ reports that Melania and Barron officially moved to the WH over the weekend. I wish Barron especially a lot of luck.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:21 AM on June 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:21 AM on June 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
just got the title of this post and it's pretty great
I may be the exceptionally humble man my cat thinks I am at heart, but I am not above taking a bow. (warning: loads prior megathread!)
posted by spitbull at 5:22 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I may be the exceptionally humble man my cat thinks I am at heart, but I am not above taking a bow. (warning: loads prior megathread!)
posted by spitbull at 5:22 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
infinitewindow: That's a level of poison in political discourse unmatched since well before any of us were alive.
I really don't see how it's so different from all the diseases that some people thought Hillary Clinton suffered from. It looks like pretty much the same level of poison to me.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:25 AM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I really don't see how it's so different from all the diseases that some people thought Hillary Clinton suffered from. It looks like pretty much the same level of poison to me.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:25 AM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm thinking closer to Fukushima-style end of history more so than Fukuyama-style, if it must be of a Fuk variety, and I'll be here all week. But we've all been through that topic too.
posted by bootlegpop at 5:27 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by bootlegpop at 5:27 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Everyone please ignore the concern troll.
posted by winna at 5:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by winna at 5:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
Let's be real here--many people laughed at covfefe because it signaled that the executive might have suffered a disabling cerebral event, and some people who hoped so publicly are disappointed in its aftermath. That's a level of poison in political discourse unmatched since well before any of us were alive.
A majority of the Republican party believed and spread racist conspiracy theories that Obama was a Kenyan Muslim. They cheered letting people die of no insurance. Trump led chants to imprison Hilary on false charges at every single one of his rallies and the crowds were frothy with violent eliminationist rhetoric. Someone screamed "hang Obama" at Trump's victory rally.
Tell me again how Democrats on twitter have violent fantasies.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [73 favorites]
A majority of the Republican party believed and spread racist conspiracy theories that Obama was a Kenyan Muslim. They cheered letting people die of no insurance. Trump led chants to imprison Hilary on false charges at every single one of his rallies and the crowds were frothy with violent eliminationist rhetoric. Someone screamed "hang Obama" at Trump's victory rally.
Tell me again how Democrats on twitter have violent fantasies.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [73 favorites]
That's a level of poison in political discourse unmatched since well before any of us were alive.
In response to a level of poison in the presidency unmatched since 1789? That's okay.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:31 AM on June 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
In response to a level of poison in the presidency unmatched since 1789? That's okay.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:31 AM on June 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
Some more on the ad-resistance front:
Taking a stance:
Coca-Cola - Together is Beautiful
Budweiser - Born The Hard Way
Apple - Earth
AIrBnB - we accept
84 Lumber - The Entire Journey
Audi - Daughter
Mocking:
Tecate - The Beer Wall
Royal Jordanian Airlines - Just in case he wins…
360fly - The Wall
Netflix / House of Cards - We make the terror
Dove (UK) - #AlternativeFacts
Mount Vernon - #MadeAmericaGreatAgain
Weather Channel - Still don't care? Proof you should.
Denmark's Popular Socialists - Vote!
Smirnoff - Made In America
posted by progosk at 5:37 AM on June 12, 2017 [59 favorites]
Taking a stance:
Coca-Cola - Together is Beautiful
Budweiser - Born The Hard Way
Apple - Earth
AIrBnB - we accept
84 Lumber - The Entire Journey
Audi - Daughter
Mocking:
Tecate - The Beer Wall
Royal Jordanian Airlines - Just in case he wins…
360fly - The Wall
Netflix / House of Cards - We make the terror
Dove (UK) - #AlternativeFacts
Mount Vernon - #MadeAmericaGreatAgain
Weather Channel - Still don't care? Proof you should.
Denmark's Popular Socialists - Vote!
Smirnoff - Made In America
posted by progosk at 5:37 AM on June 12, 2017 [59 favorites]
So can somebody smarter than I am tell me if this is correct?
The Democrats have a shot at taking the House. Special election results and polls show things swinging Dem. That's said, the map is tricky, but there's hope.
However, the Senate map is not hopeful at all, in terms of swinging to Democratic control in 2018.
So the Democrats could impeach Trump after this hypothetical House turnover; it would then turn over to the (most likely) GOP-controlled Senate.
So in order to get him out of office, we'd be depending on moderate Republicans in the Senate?
Sorry if this has been explained before or explained in a link posted that I neglected to click on. Granted, I do agree with the monkey with the gun analogy and believe that chances are this Catherine Wheel of a presidency will sputter to a self-inflicted halt before the above hypothetical could be concluded.
posted by angrycat at 5:40 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Democrats have a shot at taking the House. Special election results and polls show things swinging Dem. That's said, the map is tricky, but there's hope.
However, the Senate map is not hopeful at all, in terms of swinging to Democratic control in 2018.
So the Democrats could impeach Trump after this hypothetical House turnover; it would then turn over to the (most likely) GOP-controlled Senate.
So in order to get him out of office, we'd be depending on moderate Republicans in the Senate?
Sorry if this has been explained before or explained in a link posted that I neglected to click on. Granted, I do agree with the monkey with the gun analogy and believe that chances are this Catherine Wheel of a presidency will sputter to a self-inflicted halt before the above hypothetical could be concluded.
posted by angrycat at 5:40 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
a series of failed business overtures that he (along with his son-in-law Jared Kushner) made seven years ago, which are only now being reported.
We are all idiots for not knowing this was the driver intuitively. Of course it was. He's not *just* party-over-country (Hi Mitch! Go fuck yourself!), he's self-over-everything. That should have been the second paragraph of any of last week's Qatar stories.
posted by petebest at 5:42 AM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
We are all idiots for not knowing this was the driver intuitively. Of course it was. He's not *just* party-over-country (Hi Mitch! Go fuck yourself!), he's self-over-everything. That should have been the second paragraph of any of last week's Qatar stories.
posted by petebest at 5:42 AM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Sekulow's value lies strictly in the signaling to some of Trump's base that he cares about their issues -- unlike the evil establishment figures who are out to get him.
I didn't mean his value for Trump and Trump's base. I meant his value as a member of a legal team, as far as the courts are concerned. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
posted by Rykey at 5:44 AM on June 12, 2017
I didn't mean his value for Trump and Trump's base. I meant his value as a member of a legal team, as far as the courts are concerned. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
posted by Rykey at 5:44 AM on June 12, 2017
Oh, and
Mocking:
[...]
Air Canada - Test Drive Canada
Diesel - Make Love Not Walls
posted by progosk at 5:47 AM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Mocking:
[...]
Air Canada - Test Drive Canada
Diesel - Make Love Not Walls
posted by progosk at 5:47 AM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Covfefe was funny in a human experience kind of way, in that someone did something derpy like whiffing on a tweet and we all got to watch and no one got hurt. To apply darker motivations to the responses to it is largely projection.
I don't mind humanizing Trump a bit because he needs it. He is not President Trump, Mighty Leader of the Free World and All Civilizing Forces, he is a bumbling blowhard wrestling with his phone on the toilet at 3 AM. Anything that helps True Believers realize that can't be all bad.
posted by delfin at 5:50 AM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
I don't mind humanizing Trump a bit because he needs it. He is not President Trump, Mighty Leader of the Free World and All Civilizing Forces, he is a bumbling blowhard wrestling with his phone on the toilet at 3 AM. Anything that helps True Believers realize that can't be all bad.
posted by delfin at 5:50 AM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
So in order to get him out of office, we'd be depending on moderate Republicans in the Senate?
A removal vote in the Senate needs 2/3. Any vote to remove will rely on more than just "moderate" Republicans. We'd need 17+ Republicans, that's well into the heart of the caucus, approximately Roy Blunt or John Thune level of "moderate".
Which is why removal will not happen, even if Trump is impeached.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:51 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
A removal vote in the Senate needs 2/3. Any vote to remove will rely on more than just "moderate" Republicans. We'd need 17+ Republicans, that's well into the heart of the caucus, approximately Roy Blunt or John Thune level of "moderate".
Which is why removal will not happen, even if Trump is impeached.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:51 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
I have a five-year-old daughter who heard Trump on the radio condemning ISIS, and responded by shouting "YAY ISIS!!!". I had to explain that ISIS is even worse than Donald Trump if you can believe that.
For purposes of not losing every rhetorical fight to an orange phoneme-blender, I respectfully ask that we try to get back to their "actual" identifiers, "Islamic State", "ISIL", or "Daesh".
This story is as good a reason why as anything I'd come up with, though.
posted by petebest at 5:52 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
For purposes of not losing every rhetorical fight to an orange phoneme-blender, I respectfully ask that we try to get back to their "actual" identifiers, "Islamic State", "ISIL", or "Daesh".
This story is as good a reason why as anything I'd come up with, though.
posted by petebest at 5:52 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
back to their "actual" identifiers, "Islamic State", "ISIL", or "Daesh".
They're very commonly "ISIS" here in Europe; plus the assonance to Trump favourites ICE is actually kind of poignant.
posted by progosk at 5:55 AM on June 12, 2017
They're very commonly "ISIS" here in Europe; plus the assonance to Trump favourites ICE is actually kind of poignant.
posted by progosk at 5:55 AM on June 12, 2017
A removal vote in the Senate needs 2/3. Any vote to remove will rely on more than just "moderate" Republicans. We'd need 17+ Republicans, that's well into the heart of the caucus, approximately Roy Blunt or John Thune level of "moderate".
Which is why removal will not happen, even if Trump is impeached.
Except, when it gets to that point, the political winds will have significantly shifted, particularly given the shellacking they're expected to get in 2018. And there's no chance Trump will take ownership of midterm losses like Bush and Obama did. You really think they want to run him in 2020, dragging down the rest of the ballot? Look at this chart, can you imagine what his approval ratings would look like in 2+ years? Things are not getting better in the White House.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:57 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Which is why removal will not happen, even if Trump is impeached.
Except, when it gets to that point, the political winds will have significantly shifted, particularly given the shellacking they're expected to get in 2018. And there's no chance Trump will take ownership of midterm losses like Bush and Obama did. You really think they want to run him in 2020, dragging down the rest of the ballot? Look at this chart, can you imagine what his approval ratings would look like in 2+ years? Things are not getting better in the White House.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:57 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mod note: Let's drop the "poison" derail about Dems' inhumanity to Trump, "so much for tolerant liberals," etc., now, please. Likewise, maybe we don't need to pursue an ISIS / ISIL / Daesh nomenclature debate again in here.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:00 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 6:00 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Did anyone get around to buying this "Alternative Facts" card game?
posted by progosk at 6:10 AM on June 12, 2017
posted by progosk at 6:10 AM on June 12, 2017
Today, with Trump allying himself and the United States with those blockading their tiny country, Qataris can’t help but wonder: is this all about Trump’s hurt feelings over business deals that didn’t pan out?
Trump's whole interest in running for president almost certainly dates back to Barack Obama making fun of him. Now, all Trump really seems to want to do in office is to undo anything that could be seen as Obama's legacy.
posted by dhens at 6:15 AM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Trump's whole interest in running for president almost certainly dates back to Barack Obama making fun of him. Now, all Trump really seems to want to do in office is to undo anything that could be seen as Obama's legacy.
posted by dhens at 6:15 AM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
... and make money while doing it.
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:23 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:23 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
There's a big difference between a Republican Senator being asked to unilaterally condemn Trump in general terms, and a Republican Senator being constitutionally required to put Trump on trial for a specific high crime or misdemeanor for which there is ample evidence. Each Senator would have to justify their vote to their constituents on specific grounds. If the public believes he is guilty, the pressure to convict will be hard to resist.
And let's not forget, every single Republican Senator despises Donald Trump, and would much prefer Mike Pence, Paul Ryan or any Republican mammal to occupy his office.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:24 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
And let's not forget, every single Republican Senator despises Donald Trump, and would much prefer Mike Pence, Paul Ryan or any Republican mammal to occupy his office.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:24 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
(My understanding is that he practiced as a tax litigator briefly after law school before getting into the right wing ‘religious liberty’ thing full time a generation ago.) Notably, Sekulow is also a big conservative media figure.
Ya know, Mr. Sekulow could potentially turn his background in religious 'liberty' to something useful in a hypothetical impeachment scenario IF he is willing to make up and use the angle that Trump is a fully fledged acolyte in the cult of Putin worship. (heh)
posted by puddledork at 6:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ya know, Mr. Sekulow could potentially turn his background in religious 'liberty' to something useful in a hypothetical impeachment scenario IF he is willing to make up and use the angle that Trump is a fully fledged acolyte in the cult of Putin worship. (heh)
posted by puddledork at 6:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Look at this chart, can you imagine what his approval ratings would look like in 2+ years? Things are not getting better in the White House.
Unless there's a terror attack and subsequent war of vengeance against a brown people's country...
posted by Talez at 6:33 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Unless there's a terror attack and subsequent war of vengeance against a brown people's country...
posted by Talez at 6:33 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Lobbyists’ Foreign Agent Filing Raises Questions
A dead-end disclosure may not really be in the spirit of the Foreign Agent Registration Act, lawyers say. (John Hudson/BuzzFeed News)
A dead-end disclosure may not really be in the spirit of the Foreign Agent Registration Act, lawyers say. (John Hudson/BuzzFeed News)
Mercury Public Affairs — which was recently forced, alongside former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort, to disclose lobbying on behalf of political interests in Ukraine — filed a “foreign agent” disclosure in February on behalf of the Brooklyn-based “Libertas Foundation.” The filing lists a contract for $15,000 a month for work related to “Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia and Greece.” However, the filing does not list a foreign agent — one of the key purposes of a Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) filing.posted by Room 641-A at 6:35 AM on June 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
“This does not track. There’s no foreign principal here,” Brett Kappel, a partner at Akerman who specializes in government ethics, told BuzzFeed News after reviewing Mercury’s FARA filing. “They’re admitting they’re doing work that’s beneficial to five different countries, but they haven’t said who their foreign principal is.”
In the form’s entry for “Name of Foreign Principal” the filing only lists Libertas, which was incorporated in August, just one day before Mercury filed documents with Congress declaring the lobbying work. Normally that space would be filled by the name of a foreign government or entity, not a New York-based organization
I should add that an impeachment trial would depend most of all on Trump's approval rating. I'm sure most Democratic Senators believed Bill Clinton lied under oath, and if his approval rating was low enough they would have voted to convict. But his approval rating was around 65%.
Trump's approval rating is around 38%, in his first year in office. After such a serious non-blowjob-based impeachment, do you expect it would be higher?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:39 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump's approval rating is around 38%, in his first year in office. After such a serious non-blowjob-based impeachment, do you expect it would be higher?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:39 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Tara Palmieri article linked above is now front page on Politico, with this as the tag line (not sure if that's the right term):
The president has threatened to oust his chief of staff if major changes are not made, but many are skeptical he’ll follow through.
Whoever leaked this really, really wants to make sure Trump will follow through, won't he?
posted by joyceanmachine at 6:49 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
The president has threatened to oust his chief of staff if major changes are not made, but many are skeptical he’ll follow through.
Whoever leaked this really, really wants to make sure Trump will follow through, won't he?
posted by joyceanmachine at 6:49 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Whoever leaked this really, really wants to make sure Trump will follow through, won't he?
It's probably Priebus
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:57 AM on June 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
It's probably Priebus
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:57 AM on June 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
Remember how Comey warned us that the Kremlin is "coming after America" and "will be back"? Well, Politico is reporting that with hacks, pro-Putin trolls and fake news, the Kremlin is ratcheting up its efforts to turn American servicemembers and veterans into a fifth column.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:59 AM on June 12, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:59 AM on June 12, 2017 [38 favorites]
This shit's going to get a lot worse. Nothing pleases the base more than non-european deportations, and for all the "save the middle eastern Christians from genocide" rhetoric, they don't give a good goddamn if they're Chaldeans and are happy to let God sort them out. One of the many reasons why the removal of Trump and Sessions from office is a much more immediate and pressing concern than dealing with President Pence/Ryan/etc.
Dozens of Chaldean and Muslim Americans detained by ICE agents in metro Detroit
Jeremiah Suleiman and dozens of other Chaldean families believe if their family members are sent back to Iraq, they would be killed.
"If my uncle gets sent back, it's basically sending him to a death sentence, just like everybody else here," said Suleiman.
Suleiman says his uncle, who's lived in the U.S. for 35 years, was unexpectedly detained Sunday in Shelby Township.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:03 AM on June 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
Dozens of Chaldean and Muslim Americans detained by ICE agents in metro Detroit
Jeremiah Suleiman and dozens of other Chaldean families believe if their family members are sent back to Iraq, they would be killed.
"If my uncle gets sent back, it's basically sending him to a death sentence, just like everybody else here," said Suleiman.
Suleiman says his uncle, who's lived in the U.S. for 35 years, was unexpectedly detained Sunday in Shelby Township.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:03 AM on June 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
The Shove Heard Round the World: Montenegro’s Prime Minister Markovic on joining NATO, Russia and that time Trump pushed him out of the way.: “I have to say that I’m very grateful that this incident, so to say, took place. Because this is what made us so famous,” Markovic says. “This is what made Montenegro so famous.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:03 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:03 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Here's Justice Gorsuch's first opinion for the Supreme Court (PDF) (Written for a unanimous court regarding debt collection by a company)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:06 AM on June 12, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:06 AM on June 12, 2017
Remember how Comey warned us that the Kremlin is "coming after America" and "will be back"? Well, Politico is reporting that with hacks, pro-Putin trolls and fake news, the Kremlin is ratcheting up its efforts to turn American servicemembers and veterans into a fifth column.
posted by Talez at 7:09 AM on June 12, 2017 [97 favorites]
Russian state actors are friending service members on Facebook while posing as attractive young women to gather intelligence and targeting the Twitter accounts of Defense Department employees with highly customized “phishing” attacks.We are so completely and utterly fucked.
[...]
Serena Moring, a former military contractor from a military family, said she first became concerned about pro-Russian sentiment among soldiers on social media last spring, when an unverified report purporting to relate the story of a Russian soldier who died heroically while fighting ISIS in Syria began circulating among American service members on social media.
“All of the response from the military guys was like, ‘That is awesome. That’s an epic way to die,’” recounted Moring, 39. “It was a very soldier-to-soldier bond that was created through social media.”
Moring said she has become further alarmed as friends of hers in the military, including military intelligence, have become avowed admirers of Putin, and that she now expends considerable effort arguing about Russia on Instagram and Facebook channels geared to military audiences.
posted by Talez at 7:09 AM on June 12, 2017 [97 favorites]
More info about today's lawsuit: D.C. and Maryland to sue President Trump, alleging breach of constitutional oath: The lawsuit, the first of its kind brought by government entities, centers on the fact that Trump chose to retain ownership of his company when he became president. Trump said in January that he was shifting his business assets into a trust managed by his sons to eliminate potential conflicts of interests.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
while posing as attractive young women to gather intelligence
Those semiannual briefings didn't do shit!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:44 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Those semiannual briefings didn't do shit!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:44 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: ‘Julius Caesar’ should go, and all of these, too
[…]most of Shakespeare — and, indeed, the Western canon — was written as a mean referendum on the Trump administration and ought to be banned accordingly.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:46 AM on June 12, 2017 [71 favorites]
“Hamlet”: NYC play erroneously suggests that a man’s son-in-law might not be fully supportive of the job he is doing in charge of a country.
“As You Like It”: Woman wandering in the woods to get away from the current regime is portrayed as some sort of hero.
“Macbeth”: NYC play includes an entire dinner scene during which the man running a country is not allowed to sit down and enjoy even a single scoop of ice cream. This play also erroneously suggests some Scots can be heroes whereas they are notorious for their opposition to perfectly reasonable golf courses.
Andrew Rice, New York: Is Trump Inc. the President’s Greatest Vulnerability?
(worth it for the photo illustration alone)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:51 AM on June 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
This spring, as President Trump fired FBI director James Comey; as his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, came under scrutiny for his secret conversations with Russians, including a bank executive close to Vladimir Putin; as The Wall Street Journal reported on the same bank’s murky connection to a foreign Trump development; as the commander-in-chief used his private club at Mar-a-Lago to host the Chinese president, to the delight of its dues-paying members (while also ordering a missile strike on Syria); as the House sought documents from Trump’s favored lender, Deutsche Bank, and the Treasury Department unit that monitors money laundering agreed to share financial records with the Senate Intelligence Committee; and as even Republicans like Lindsey Graham started to talk about investigating Trump’s finances, it began to occur to many people that the president’s defiant refusal to separate himself from his tangle of international business interests might represent something more ominous than mere stubbornness, that his inveterate hucksterism might not be a simple personality quirk or an implausible selling point of his successful campaign, but the fatal weakness of his presidency.
Norm Eisen came to this realization earlier than most. A wry, wiry attorney, he served as an ethics counsel to President Obama and is now the chairman of a nonprofit legal-advocacy group called Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW). He is fond of saying his nickname was “Mr. No” when he worked in the White House. For the past six months, Eisen has been waging a litigation war against its current occupant and his yes-to-everything approach to balancing his public office and private business. Since the election, Eisen has been saying that Trump’s refusal to fully divorce from his company would provide the president’s opponents with an opening. “We sounded a pretty loud and pretty accurate clarion call,” he told me in February, “that if he didn’t separate, everything he did would be surrounded by a miasma of scandal.”
(worth it for the photo illustration alone)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:51 AM on June 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Maybe National Treasure Alexandra Petri of The Washington Post and National Treasure Charles P. Pierce of Esquire could do a collab. Or have a title bout. Either way.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:53 AM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:53 AM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I honestly can't tell anymore who's trolling who, but in this photo of Melania and Barron arriving at the people's house, Baron is wearing a T-shirt that says "The Expert."
posted by Room 641-A at 7:54 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 7:54 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I honestly can't tell anymore who's trolling who, but in this photo of Melania and Barron arriving at the people's house, Baron is wearing a T-shirt that says "The Expert."
Because no teenager at any point in time has ever worn a graphic slogan t-shirt ironically.
Can we back off the Barron?
posted by Talez at 7:56 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Because no teenager at any point in time has ever worn a graphic slogan t-shirt ironically.
Can we back off the Barron?
posted by Talez at 7:56 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Because no teenager at any point in time has ever worn a graphic slogan t-shirt ironically.
Barron just turned 11, but yeah, your point is a good one. Leave the kid alone.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:58 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Barron just turned 11, but yeah, your point is a good one. Leave the kid alone.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:58 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
TIL Alexandra Petri's dad was a moderate Republican congressman until retiring in 2015
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:58 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:58 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
The photographer must have been taking 60fps video to get a shot where the married couple are holding hands and Melania hasn't yet pulled her hand away
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:03 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:03 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
There's a big difference between a Republican Senator being asked to unilaterally condemn Trump in general terms, and a Republican Senator being constitutionally required to put Trump on trial for a specific high crime or misdemeanor for which there is ample evidence.
In the meantime, we can keep the pressure on them with phone calls and faxes. They need constant reminding of Trump's non-stop failures, general incompetence, and national unpopularity. (I just got through to a staffer for my GOP Senator instead of voice mail for literally the first time since he took office - which suggests that we need to tie up the Capitol Hill lines again.) Eventually, when/if Mueller's investigation bears fruit, they can't be under any illusions about what they're dealing with, either Trump's unfitness for office or the electorate's discontent.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:12 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
In the meantime, we can keep the pressure on them with phone calls and faxes. They need constant reminding of Trump's non-stop failures, general incompetence, and national unpopularity. (I just got through to a staffer for my GOP Senator instead of voice mail for literally the first time since he took office - which suggests that we need to tie up the Capitol Hill lines again.) Eventually, when/if Mueller's investigation bears fruit, they can't be under any illusions about what they're dealing with, either Trump's unfitness for office or the electorate's discontent.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:12 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Ivanka Trump: 'There is a level of viciousness that I was not expecting'
Every statement she makes, makes me want to hurt people.
posted by archimago at 8:13 AM on June 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
Every statement she makes, makes me want to hurt people.
posted by archimago at 8:13 AM on June 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
Because no teenager at any point in time has ever worn a graphic slogan t-shirt ironically.
Can we back off the Barron?
Oh fss, I was giving Barron credit for trolling his father. Can we not jump to the worst possible conclusions about comments here?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:14 AM on June 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
Can we back off the Barron?
Oh fss, I was giving Barron credit for trolling his father. Can we not jump to the worst possible conclusions about comments here?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:14 AM on June 12, 2017 [34 favorites]
@BraddJaffy: 🚨 Sessions to testify publicly tomorrow before Senate Intel — open hearing
posted by zombieflanders at 8:15 AM on June 12, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:15 AM on June 12, 2017 [41 favorites]
"why won't these ugly commoners let us steal their healthcare and loot the country in peace" -ivanka, [real, essentially]
posted by entropicamericana at 8:16 AM on June 12, 2017 [53 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 8:16 AM on June 12, 2017 [53 favorites]
Yesterday's episode of the BBC's Hardtalk (audio from this feed, geo-locked video in BBC iPlayer) with Zeinab Badawi interviewing former Clinton adviser Jake Sullivan, was pretty good. The first half focused on Syria.
posted by XMLicious at 8:17 AM on June 12, 2017
posted by XMLicious at 8:17 AM on June 12, 2017
@BraddJaffy: 🚨 Sessions to testify publicly tomorrow before Senate Intel — open hearing
Now we know what time his tree is unattended! Cookies for all!
posted by leotrotsky at 8:19 AM on June 12, 2017 [55 favorites]
Now we know what time his tree is unattended! Cookies for all!
posted by leotrotsky at 8:19 AM on June 12, 2017 [55 favorites]
@BraddJaffy: 🚨 Sessions to testify publicly tomorrow before Senate Intel — open hearing
I'm starting to wonder if this whole predisency is just a ruse by c-span to get better ratings.
posted by dis_integration at 8:23 AM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
I'm starting to wonder if this whole predisency is just a ruse by c-span to get better ratings.
posted by dis_integration at 8:23 AM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
too bad franken isn't on the intelligence committee.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:23 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 8:23 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sessions requested it be open?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:27 AM on June 12, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:27 AM on June 12, 2017
The Gingrich of May: Robert Mueller is superb choice to be special counsel. His reputation is impeccable for honesty and integrity. Media should now calm down
The Gingrich of June: Republicans are delusional if they think the special counsel is going to be fair. Look who he is hiring.check fec reports. Time to rethink.
"I think Congress should now intervene and they should abolish the independent counsel, because Comey makes so clear that it's the poison fruit of a deliberate manipulation by the FBI director leaking to The New York Times, deliberately set up this particular situation. It's very sick," Gingrich told radio host John Catsimatidis.
And yes, this is exactly how it went down in the Bill Clinton administration, why do you ask?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [57 favorites]
The Gingrich of June: Republicans are delusional if they think the special counsel is going to be fair. Look who he is hiring.check fec reports. Time to rethink.
"I think Congress should now intervene and they should abolish the independent counsel, because Comey makes so clear that it's the poison fruit of a deliberate manipulation by the FBI director leaking to The New York Times, deliberately set up this particular situation. It's very sick," Gingrich told radio host John Catsimatidis.
And yes, this is exactly how it went down in the Bill Clinton administration, why do you ask?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [57 favorites]
open hearing
heyooooooo!
This does not strike me as an obviously good thing. It makes me think we'll just be hearing a lot of riffs on "I don't feel it is appropriate to respond to that question in an open hearing." Got plenty of that from Adm. Rogers already. Not that I can think of any reason to believe that he would be forthright or honest in a closed hearing, but making it open seems to me to give him more cover, not less.
posted by solotoro at 8:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
heyooooooo!
This does not strike me as an obviously good thing. It makes me think we'll just be hearing a lot of riffs on "I don't feel it is appropriate to respond to that question in an open hearing." Got plenty of that from Adm. Rogers already. Not that I can think of any reason to believe that he would be forthright or honest in a closed hearing, but making it open seems to me to give him more cover, not less.
posted by solotoro at 8:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yeah, there needs to be a closed hearing after the open hearing.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Some (small) good news out of Texas: The US District Court for the Western District of Texas granted summary judgment (in part) for the plaintiff last week in an ICE detainer case (Trujillo Santoyo v. US). There's a lot of fact-specific stuff about the result in this case, but essentially, the court determined that holding someone on an ICE detainer without independent probable cause was a "seizure" in violation of the 4th amendment. Some quotes from the opinion (full pdf here):
posted by melissasaurus at 8:31 AM on June 12, 2017 [57 favorites]
"Plaintiff is correct that detention pursuant to an ICE detainer request is a Fourth Amendment seizure that must be supported by probable cause or a warrant.[...] Furthermore, the Supreme Court has recently observed that "[a]s a general rule, it is not a crime for a removable alien to remain present in the United States" and that "[i]f the police stop someone based on nothing more than possible removability, the usual predicate for an arrest is absent.""If you're trying to urge a local county/city to ignore ICE detainers, consider citing this case -- every time a county or city official honors an ICE detainer, they're potentially violating someone's 4th amendment rights -- regardless of whether you agree, litigating these claims and paying out any awards will be extremely expensive ("shouldn't that money be spent on roads and schools here in [county] and not on DC/big-city/out-of-state lawyers?" "Let the feds defend their own laws!" etc etc ).
"the record is devoid of evidence showing that County officials' detention of Plaintiff pursuant to the ICE detainer request was supported by any County official's probable cause that he had committed a criminal offense. Defendant's argument that probable cause is established on the basis of the ICE removal order that has been submitted to the Court is unavailing. The probable cause determination turns on information available to officers at the time of the challenged search or seizure, not information subsequently submitted to the Court."
"Defendant suggests that County officials were entitled to rely upon ICE's probable cause determination. The Court does not agree. First, as discussed below, ICE's assessment of probable cause was based on a determination that Plaintiff was likely removable, not that he had likely committed a criminal offense."
posted by melissasaurus at 8:31 AM on June 12, 2017 [57 favorites]
The on-the-record questions may end up being more important than the on-the-record answers, which will all be evasions.
posted by Artw at 8:32 AM on June 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:32 AM on June 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
Here's an interesting take on updating Julius Caesar with the President as Caesar. From 2012. With Obama as Caesar. Because of course.
The American Conservative: Obama’s Ides Of March: The Acting Company Production of Julius Caesar.
posted by scalefree at 8:32 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
The American Conservative: Obama’s Ides Of March: The Acting Company Production of Julius Caesar.
posted by scalefree at 8:32 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'd like open-closed-open, where first Sessions is forced to refuse to answer questions, then forced to answer questions in a closed hearing, and the rest is just Democratic senators going "Whoa... that was ... that was some heavy shit you were saying back there, Jeff. You're really up Shit Creek, you know that?"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:33 AM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:33 AM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
It makes me think we'll just be hearing a lot of riffs on "I don't feel it is appropriate to respond to that question in an open hearing."
I have my fingers crossed that he's as big of an idiot as I'm convinced he is and will accidentally paint himself into an incriminating corner.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:33 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
I have my fingers crossed that he's as big of an idiot as I'm convinced he is and will accidentally paint himself into an incriminating corner.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:33 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
> Got plenty of that from Adm. Rogers already.
I think the Dems will be prepared with retorts to "I may or may not be invoking executive privilege, I'm not quite sure, and nobody at the WH can really tell me if that's the plan or not."
posted by klarck at 8:34 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think the Dems will be prepared with retorts to "I may or may not be invoking executive privilege, I'm not quite sure, and nobody at the WH can really tell me if that's the plan or not."
posted by klarck at 8:34 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Senators, I am pleased to announce that, to the best of my recollection, I did not have any meetings with the Russian ambassador, because I just drank a gallon of methylated spirits"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:35 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:35 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Let's not forget that he incriminated himself at his own confirmation hearing out of sheer stupidity. Any chance of him facing unfriendly questioning on camera is good news in my opinion.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:35 AM on June 12, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:35 AM on June 12, 2017 [45 favorites]
here's a nice piece from the AP countering some of the administration's current spin that trump didn't even know comey well enough to apply pressure on the russia investigation (and numerous other statements)
AP FACT CHECK: James who? Trump paints Comey as a stranger
posted by murphy slaw at 8:38 AM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
AP FACT CHECK: James who? Trump paints Comey as a stranger
posted by murphy slaw at 8:38 AM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
"Senators, I am pleased to announce that, to the best of my recollection, I did not have any meetings with the Russian ambassador, because I just drank a gallon of methylated spirits"
That doesn't compute. Don't they call it denatured alcohol in the states? I tried asking for Metho once in a hardware store and they looked at me like I was insane. Or a drug addict.
posted by Talez at 8:42 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
That doesn't compute. Don't they call it denatured alcohol in the states? I tried asking for Metho once in a hardware store and they looked at me like I was insane. Or a drug addict.
posted by Talez at 8:42 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
For some reason I was thinking it was known as white alcohol here, and you know he'd drink that in a heartbeat. Google says no, though.
posted by Artw at 8:46 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 8:46 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sessions requested it be open?
Maybe he truly believes that since he is charismatic enough to win election in Alabama, he is charismatic enough to win the heart of the average C-SPAN viewer.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:50 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Maybe he truly believes that since he is charismatic enough to win election in Alabama, he is charismatic enough to win the heart of the average C-SPAN viewer.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:50 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump is now talking about a program expanding apprenticeships. I assume he means unpaid internships? [Serious question]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:50 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:50 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
assume he means
this is the basis of many errors
posted by murphy slaw at 8:52 AM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
this is the basis of many errors
posted by murphy slaw at 8:52 AM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
He might be referring to spin-off versions like The Junior Apprentice and The Apprentice: Mar-A-Lago
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:52 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:52 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Aaron Blake/WaPo: The Trumps are complaining about the ‘viciousness’ of politics. Irony is dead.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:53 AM on June 12, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:53 AM on June 12, 2017 [56 favorites]
These round-table things Trump likes are moronic
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:54 AM on June 12, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:54 AM on June 12, 2017
Trump is now talking about a program expanding apprenticeships. I assume he means unpaid internships?
Trump's new jobs plan is to repeat an Obama announcement from last spring. [tweet w/ screenshots]
posted by melissasaurus at 8:56 AM on June 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
Trump's new jobs plan is to repeat an Obama announcement from last spring. [tweet w/ screenshots]
posted by melissasaurus at 8:56 AM on June 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
Maybe he truly believes that since he is charismatic enough to win election in Alabama, he is charismatic enough to win the heart of the average C-SPAN viewer.
Engineer's disease full tilt?
posted by Twain Device at 8:57 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Engineer's disease full tilt?
posted by Twain Device at 8:57 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd like to know who set the agenda for the private vs. public testimony. If it was Sessions then that seems to me he does not want the Senate (particularly Republicans) to go all out in their questioning. If it was the Senate Intel Com, then that reads to me that they are ready to throw him under the bus. They will be making it clear to the public that he is a rotten apple who needs to be kicked out of the administration.
The Freedom Caucus is making new demands:
Vox Conservatives in Congress are threatening to hold Trump’s agenda hostage
The Freedom Caucus is making new demands:
Vox Conservatives in Congress are threatening to hold Trump’s agenda hostage
That faction, the House Freedom Caucus, has been emboldened by extracting key concessions from Trump in order to pass his health care bill through the House last month. Its members are now effectively threatening to impound a budget resolution that is crucial to any hopes Republicans have of cutting taxes this year, unless the party agrees to $300 billion in social service cuts.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Freedom Caucus is feeling the strength of its leverage over GOP moderates and the administration — it knows that without its members’ votes, the budget is doomed, and with it, for the next year at least, any hope of passing tax cuts through the Senate on a strictly party-line vote.
Watching each member of Trump's cabinet praise him in turn. I think this might have been requested by the President himself, after being informed about the Twenty-Fifth Amendment. It's very Shakespearean.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
Don't they call it denatured alcohol in the states?
Yep, and I only learned recently that the name comes from the additive in some cases being (or at least having been, maybe since deprecated?) denatonium. Had always sort of assumed that it was being "de-natured" which seemed like an oddly euphemistic way of describing poisoning something.
For some reason I was thinking it was known as white alcohol here, and you know he'd drink that in a heartbeat.
You got within spitting distance though; white dog is a moonshine-ish variant of underdone whiskey, and white lightning is just indeed literally moonshine.
posted by cortex at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yep, and I only learned recently that the name comes from the additive in some cases being (or at least having been, maybe since deprecated?) denatonium. Had always sort of assumed that it was being "de-natured" which seemed like an oddly euphemistic way of describing poisoning something.
For some reason I was thinking it was known as white alcohol here, and you know he'd drink that in a heartbeat.
You got within spitting distance though; white dog is a moonshine-ish variant of underdone whiskey, and white lightning is just indeed literally moonshine.
posted by cortex at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
These round-table things Trump likes are moronic
people wanted trump to run the country like a business, so he's calling a lot of useless meetings and trying to look busy whenever he thinks someone is watching
posted by murphy slaw at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [72 favorites]
people wanted trump to run the country like a business, so he's calling a lot of useless meetings and trying to look busy whenever he thinks someone is watching
posted by murphy slaw at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [72 favorites]
Called Bob Casey today to thank him and his staff for the hard work they're doing to fight the AHCA. Got through to a live staffer at the Philly office on the first try.
Called Pat Fucking Toomey to yell about his support for repealing Dodd-Frank, as well as the house Dodd-Frank repeal bill giving the president power to defund the CPFB, and removing federal regulation of payday lenders. Philly office is a busy signal. DC office rang until I was put through to voicemail.
Last night on Facebook, one of the first two friends I ever made in person publically talked about how she is bisexual and upset about hateful posts mocking Pride days before the first anniversary of the Pulse shooting, and the other friend that I made in real-life after 20+ years of real life social isolation showed up in the comments with LITERALLY ONE SUPPORTIVE WORD and then, like pretty fucking much a goddamn reactionary bingo card of HOW ARE YOU SURE IT WAS HATE because THE LEFT FREQUENTLY LABELS ALL KINDS OF THINGS AS HATE and oh my God, my head is going to explode from rage and disappointment.
Win some, lose one of my first and oldest friends, I guess?
posted by joyceanmachine at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Called Pat Fucking Toomey to yell about his support for repealing Dodd-Frank, as well as the house Dodd-Frank repeal bill giving the president power to defund the CPFB, and removing federal regulation of payday lenders. Philly office is a busy signal. DC office rang until I was put through to voicemail.
Last night on Facebook, one of the first two friends I ever made in person publically talked about how she is bisexual and upset about hateful posts mocking Pride days before the first anniversary of the Pulse shooting, and the other friend that I made in real-life after 20+ years of real life social isolation showed up in the comments with LITERALLY ONE SUPPORTIVE WORD and then, like pretty fucking much a goddamn reactionary bingo card of HOW ARE YOU SURE IT WAS HATE because THE LEFT FREQUENTLY LABELS ALL KINDS OF THINGS AS HATE and oh my God, my head is going to explode from rage and disappointment.
Win some, lose one of my first and oldest friends, I guess?
posted by joyceanmachine at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Trump is now talking about a program expanding apprenticeships. I assume he means unpaid internships? [Serious question]
After he brings back coal mining he's planning to train up a strong new generation of American blacksmiths, coopers and farriers.
posted by contraption at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
After he brings back coal mining he's planning to train up a strong new generation of American blacksmiths, coopers and farriers.
posted by contraption at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Charlie Pierce: This Fight Will Be Long, Bloody, and Partisan
At the time of his appointment, Mueller was praised by Republicans and Democrats as a perfect choice for the job, and conventional wisdom had it that Mueller's appointment was a godsend to the Republican Party, because Mueller's investigation removed the matter from the polarized national legislature and gave the GOP a way to distance themselves from a renegade president. And this was only three weeks ago.posted by zombieflanders at 9:02 AM on June 12, 2017 [65 favorites]
What changed, of course, were the stakes. James Comey testified last week. Mueller started putting together what is by all accounts a lethal team of professional prosecutors. It became clear that he considered his mandate to include a great deal beyond Michael Flynn and what the president* whispered to Comey out of earshot from everyone else. It became clear that Attorney General Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III appeared to be up to his knees in something unseemly. Meanwhile, the president* couldn't keep his trap shut and couldn't stop screwing up on the big stage. As the situation grew darker, the Republicans decided to hunker themselves down with the president* in the hopes of passing the retrograde policies of their dreams. There already are calls for Mueller and Comey to be investigated. It took them six years to get around to demanding that the same be done to Lawrence Walsh.
This is going to be a long, bloody, and (yes) partisan political fight, and god bless it for that. There are serious constitutional and democratic principles involved here that touch upon what we think we are as a nation. A fight over those things should be long and bloody and partisan. Don't let the voices of "moderation" and "civility" convince you otherwise. There is no gentle, easy way out of the predator-laden swamp into which we voted ourselves last November. Business is no longer usual.
Vox Conservatives in Congress are threatening to hold Trump’s agenda hostage
What agenda? He doesn't have an agenda. Perhaps his puppet string holders do, but he doesn't.
posted by Melismata at 9:05 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
What agenda? He doesn't have an agenda. Perhaps his puppet string holders do, but he doesn't.
posted by Melismata at 9:05 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Watching each member of Trump's cabinet praise him in turn. I think this might have been requested by the President himself, after being informed about the Twenty-Fifth Amendment. It's very Shakespearean.
Literally, like at a press conference?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:06 AM on June 12, 2017
Literally, like at a press conference?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:06 AM on June 12, 2017
agenda^H^H^H^Hfamily business revenue potential
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:06 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:06 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Literally, like at a press conference?
Cabinet meeting on CNN. Don't think there's public video yet.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:08 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Cabinet meeting on CNN. Don't think there's public video yet.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:08 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump on himself: “Never has there been a president, with few exceptions…who’s passed more legislation, who’s done more things” (video)
Like with his lawyer's Russia investment statement, "with few exceptions" is doing a LOT of work here.
posted by chris24 at 9:08 AM on June 12, 2017 [33 favorites]
Like with his lawyer's Russia investment statement, "with few exceptions" is doing a LOT of work here.
posted by chris24 at 9:08 AM on June 12, 2017 [33 favorites]
Does...does he know what legislation is?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:11 AM on June 12, 2017 [73 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:11 AM on June 12, 2017 [73 favorites]
white lightning is just indeed literally moonshine.
Whereas in England, White Lightning is cheap hard cider. Two peoples divided by a common language.
it's okay to derail if you're responding to a mod, right?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:12 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Whereas in England, White Lightning is cheap hard cider. Two peoples divided by a common language.
it's okay to derail if you're responding to a mod, right?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:12 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't think he even knows what things are.
posted by Etrigan at 9:12 AM on June 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 9:12 AM on June 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
From wayyy up:
I sure hope Ivana (not Ivanka) is going to write a book.
She has. Raising Trump, "a non-partisan, non-political book about motherhood, strength, and resilience" (per Amazon), comes out September 12.
posted by Flannery Culp at 9:13 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I sure hope Ivana (not Ivanka) is going to write a book.
She has. Raising Trump, "a non-partisan, non-political book about motherhood, strength, and resilience" (per Amazon), comes out September 12.
posted by Flannery Culp at 9:13 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Does he know FDR served 3 terms and change and did a lot of "things" in that time??
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:13 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:13 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump is now talking about a program expanding apprenticeships. I assume he means unpaid internships?
Did you mean: indentured servitude?
posted by kirkaracha at 9:14 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
She has. Raising Trump, "a non-partisan, non-political book about motherhood, strength, and resilience" (per Amazon), comes out September 12.
Does it describe her heroic struggle yet eventual failure to turn Donald into a functioning adult for the sake of the country?
posted by Talez at 9:14 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Does it describe her heroic struggle yet eventual failure to turn Donald into a functioning adult for the sake of the country?
posted by Talez at 9:14 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
While we are all clicking and fixing our eyes on the never-ending Trump show – the handshake with Macron, the hand-holding with May – he is, she argues, enacting policies that are systematically moving wealth upwards, and crucial questions are not being asked loudly enough: Is your social security safe? Is your healthcare safe? Are your wages going to be driven down? “He benefits so much from that focus away from economics.”
LOL.
Trump is certainly a giant distraction in the same way any giant disaster is, but who doesn't already know that the Republican party wants to move wealth upwards and dismantle social security and healthcare? Who doesn't already know they see low wages as justice, and some are against any minimum wage? How would we reach people who haven't already been able to figure out the sometimes literal parade of Republicans proudly announcing those things as loudly as possible? Particularly when many of them are marching in it?
posted by wildblueyonder at 9:14 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
LOL.
Trump is certainly a giant distraction in the same way any giant disaster is, but who doesn't already know that the Republican party wants to move wealth upwards and dismantle social security and healthcare? Who doesn't already know they see low wages as justice, and some are against any minimum wage? How would we reach people who haven't already been able to figure out the sometimes literal parade of Republicans proudly announcing those things as loudly as possible? Particularly when many of them are marching in it?
posted by wildblueyonder at 9:14 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Around the 100 day mark there was a lot of focus from Trump-allies on the literal number of bills he had signed. The reason the number is so high is because many of them are single paragraphs rejecting a federal regulation under the Congressional Review Act, one of the few things Republicans could get passed with 51 votes in the Senate. Many others are uncontroversial and similar to H.R.1362 - To name the Department of Veterans Affairs community-based outpatient clinic in Pago Pago.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:16 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:16 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
wait, I watched the video, and he says FDR had the Great Depression? Implying 45 has done more in a few months than FDR did in 12 years because of that??
Sorry, I'm done with my shocked hot takes.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:16 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sorry, I'm done with my shocked hot takes.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:16 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Does he know FDR served 3 terms and change and did a lot of "things" in that time??
FDR is the fakest of fake Predisents. Plus, polio? SAD!
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:16 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
FDR is the fakest of fake Predisents. Plus, polio? SAD!
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:16 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Raising Trump, "a non-partisan, non-political book about motherhood, strength, and resilience"
If you want a vision of the future, imagine Ivanka lecturing a human face about resilience - forever.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:17 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
If you want a vision of the future, imagine Ivanka lecturing a human face about resilience - forever.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:17 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
That Politico article makes my blood boil:
Second of all, the whole thing is so abhorrent in every respect. It's encouraging every noxious right-wing (and sometimes left-wing) group, those with the most bigoted and toxic ideas and rhetoric, in a successful bid to raise these groups' profile in civic life in order to increase conflict and division. It's just ugly. And I just don't see how, at the end of the day, this isn't that different than anything that people would consider a more overt attack.
In December, what I wanted from Obama when he announced the scope and seriousness of this threat, and that it was interference in the election, was to respond in kind but in a no-nonsense escalation. I have no doubt that the US is capable through both licit and illicit means, of effectively cutting off Russia from the internet. We could fuck with their edge routers, we could corrupt their DNS propogation, and, we could, if necessary, cut and otherwise sabotage cables. I have no doubt that the US could, if it chose, isolate Russia from the internet in a single hour if it wanted to.
I don't doubt that this sounds drastic, extremely provocative, an insane over-reaction to many people. But it seems to me that this kind of widespread, state-sponsored international cyber-warfare -- not the carefully targeted, primarily against military assets attacks that multiple nations have been doing in the past -- but rather this wide-scale, at many level of organization, against many civil and private assets, all as one of the primary means of projecting national power ... that is a very, very bad development and deserves, demands, to be slapped down as hard as possible as quickly as possible by whatever means means, off-book operations or no.
And it really bugs me that accusations of russophobia are being leveled against alarmed responses to what the Russian government is doing. It's even more galling that some of this is initiated as part of the propoganda campaign itself. I like Russian culture and the Russian people! My strong reaction to what the Russian government has been doing is about the substance of what it's doing, not who is doing it. If the US were doing this, I'd object just as much. Granted, Putin and others actually believe that this is basically the sort of thing that the US and others have been doing, because they simply refuse to believe that the Maidan demonstration or the Arab Spring could have been in any way organic and legitimate. But they're wrong. I don't believe the US and the CIA are faultless, mind you. But the Russian theorists are absolutely wrong to believe that such surreptitious and widespread and convoluted public sentiment manipulation is a large component of US foreign policy. No, the US and NATO has the largest genuine military power in human history to project power . Russia does not -- that's why they're conducting what amounts to a worldwide cyber-war.
I'm very worried about which and how much various Trump campaign folk were knowingly or unknowingly involved in this stuff. But that's only the side-issue. The main issue is that it's happening, that it's being done at all, that it's being done so brazenly and so many portions of western liberal society are receptive to it.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:18 AM on June 12, 2017 [66 favorites]
And rather than abating after the presidential election, these campaigns have only continued to get more brazen, according to Strategic Cyber Ventures CEO Tom Kellermann, who has watched them closely.Okay, first of all, I think it's a forgone conclusion that the the chief strategic prize that Russia is hoping for by all this (at least in the short run), is to create a situation where they can go into Ukraine, force a "regime change", and also do the same in Estonia ... without NATO responding because the US refuses to do do so. This isn't just fun-and-games, folks -- those of you (not here, but elsewhere) who think this Russia internet propaganda manipulation stuff is small potatoes and not worth panicking over are completely wrong.
In May and June of 2015, Kellermann, who was then the chief cybersecurity officer at Trend Micro, said the firm warned the FBI and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence that Kremlin hackers had drawn up a list of 2,300 people comprising the most powerful leaders in Washington and New York along with their spouses and lovers to target with a concerted hacking campaign. Kellerman said he does not know whether the government acted on the tip, which warned that the hackers had the ability to turn on microphones and cameras on the personal devices of their targets to obtain sensitive information about their personal lives. But he believes the campaign has successfully compromised American leaders, emboldening the Kremlin. “When you wonder why certain people act certain ways,” he said, “You have to remember these people have been warned that their dirty laundry could be aired.” (Spokespeople for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the FBI declined to comment.)
Kellermann cited the activities of the Shadow Brokers, a hacking group believed to be Kremlin-backed that began publishing data stolen from the NSA last summer and most recently published a leak in April. The upticks in online attacks are harbingers of armed aggression, said Kellerman, who predicted that conflict between the United States and Russia was most likely to break out in the Baltic region.
“I’m very, very concerned,” he said. “Cyberspace is always the precursor to kinetic reality,”
Second of all, the whole thing is so abhorrent in every respect. It's encouraging every noxious right-wing (and sometimes left-wing) group, those with the most bigoted and toxic ideas and rhetoric, in a successful bid to raise these groups' profile in civic life in order to increase conflict and division. It's just ugly. And I just don't see how, at the end of the day, this isn't that different than anything that people would consider a more overt attack.
In December, what I wanted from Obama when he announced the scope and seriousness of this threat, and that it was interference in the election, was to respond in kind but in a no-nonsense escalation. I have no doubt that the US is capable through both licit and illicit means, of effectively cutting off Russia from the internet. We could fuck with their edge routers, we could corrupt their DNS propogation, and, we could, if necessary, cut and otherwise sabotage cables. I have no doubt that the US could, if it chose, isolate Russia from the internet in a single hour if it wanted to.
I don't doubt that this sounds drastic, extremely provocative, an insane over-reaction to many people. But it seems to me that this kind of widespread, state-sponsored international cyber-warfare -- not the carefully targeted, primarily against military assets attacks that multiple nations have been doing in the past -- but rather this wide-scale, at many level of organization, against many civil and private assets, all as one of the primary means of projecting national power ... that is a very, very bad development and deserves, demands, to be slapped down as hard as possible as quickly as possible by whatever means means, off-book operations or no.
And it really bugs me that accusations of russophobia are being leveled against alarmed responses to what the Russian government is doing. It's even more galling that some of this is initiated as part of the propoganda campaign itself. I like Russian culture and the Russian people! My strong reaction to what the Russian government has been doing is about the substance of what it's doing, not who is doing it. If the US were doing this, I'd object just as much. Granted, Putin and others actually believe that this is basically the sort of thing that the US and others have been doing, because they simply refuse to believe that the Maidan demonstration or the Arab Spring could have been in any way organic and legitimate. But they're wrong. I don't believe the US and the CIA are faultless, mind you. But the Russian theorists are absolutely wrong to believe that such surreptitious and widespread and convoluted public sentiment manipulation is a large component of US foreign policy. No, the US and NATO has the largest genuine military power in human history to project power . Russia does not -- that's why they're conducting what amounts to a worldwide cyber-war.
I'm very worried about which and how much various Trump campaign folk were knowingly or unknowingly involved in this stuff. But that's only the side-issue. The main issue is that it's happening, that it's being done at all, that it's being done so brazenly and so many portions of western liberal society are receptive to it.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:18 AM on June 12, 2017 [66 favorites]
To hammer home the point, Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large: 10 words that just blew up Ivanka's reintroduction tour
Those 10 words -- "there's a level of viciousness that I was not expecting" -- will drown out everything else Ivanka said in that interview (or anything else she does today.)posted by ZeusHumms at 9:19 AM on June 12, 2017 [62 favorites]
The problem with that statement, of course, is that it seems willfully blind to the fact that her father, aka the president of the United States, ran one of the most vicious campaigns for president in history and has, so far at least, been a president willing to call names and attack whenever possible. (Think of recent weeks in which he has slammed former FBI Director James Comey as both a "showboat" and a "grandstander.")
That willful blindness gets to the broader critique of Ivanka Trump's time in the White House. She often appears to be operating in a totally different political world than most people who are closely watching this White House. In her world, her father is getting things done on the regular and all of the negative stuff written about him is produced by haters and lacks even the patina of truth.
Something something leopards ... something something face ...
posted by Dashy at 9:27 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 9:27 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
She often appears to be operating in a totally different political world than most people who are closely watching this White House
And this is news to anyone?
posted by Melismata at 9:27 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
And this is news to anyone?
posted by Melismata at 9:27 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
She often appears to be operating in a totally different political world than most people who are closely watching this White House.
duh?
she's a rich, pretty young white girl, she operated in an entirely different world entirely and has been shielded from reality literally her entire life
posted by entropicamericana at 9:27 AM on June 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
duh?
she's a rich, pretty young white girl, she operated in an entirely different world entirely and has been shielded from reality literally her entire life
posted by entropicamericana at 9:27 AM on June 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
Uh oh, looks like Trump was leaking Israeli secrets to the Russians.
posted by Talez at 9:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
The New York Times' report that the U.S. president had shared Israeli intelligence with Russia was Israel's "worst fears confirmed," one of the officers was quoted as saying.Holy shit we're just burning everyone so that Trump can look like King Dick in front of anyone he's trying to impress.
posted by Talez at 9:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
Rep. Mike Quigley (D-Ill.) introduced legislation Monday to classify presidential social media posts — including President Trump's much-discussed tweets — as presidential records. The Communications Over Various Feeds Electronically for Engagement (COVFEFE) Act would amend the Presidential Records Act to include "social media."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:29 AM on June 12, 2017 [99 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:29 AM on June 12, 2017 [99 favorites]
"there's a level of viciousness that I was not expecting"
I'm not sure what she was expecting. The tired, the poor, the huddled masses coming out and saying "Ave Ivanka! Morituri te salutant!"?
posted by Talez at 9:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
I'm not sure what she was expecting. The tired, the poor, the huddled masses coming out and saying "Ave Ivanka! Morituri te salutant!"?
posted by Talez at 9:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
Seriously, why would you do this to yourself.
WH Chief of Staff Reince Priebus to Trump: “We thank you for the opportunity and blessing to serve your agenda” (video)
posted by chris24 at 9:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [29 favorites]
WH Chief of Staff Reince Priebus to Trump: “We thank you for the opportunity and blessing to serve your agenda” (video)
posted by chris24 at 9:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [29 favorites]
The Gingrich of May: Robert Mueller is superb choice to be special counsel. His reputation is impeccable for honesty and integrity. Media should now calm down
The Gingrich of June: Republicans are delusional if they think the special counsel is going to be fair. Look who he is hiring.check fec reports. Time to rethink.
"I think Congress should now intervene and they should abolish the independent counsel, because Comey makes so clear that it's the poison fruit of a deliberate manipulation by the FBI director leaking to The New York Times, deliberately set up this particular situation. It's very sick," Gingrich told radio host John Catsimatidis.
Odds on Trump firing (or attempting to fire) Mueller? I'd say better than 50/50 before this is all over. He'll bungle it, and do it too late to matter, probably.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:31 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Seriously, why would you do this to yourself.
To hang on as long as possible to what power and influence you still have.
posted by Talez at 9:32 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
To hang on as long as possible to what power and influence you still have.
posted by Talez at 9:32 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
For that matter, anyone think that there is there any chance Sessions will invoke Fifth Amendment?
Is it too early for that, because he'd likely be expected to resign in that case?
posted by leotrotsky at 9:35 AM on June 12, 2017
Is it too early for that, because he'd likely be expected to resign in that case?
posted by leotrotsky at 9:35 AM on June 12, 2017
Seriously, why would you do this to yourself.
kompromat
posted by entropicamericana at 9:35 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
kompromat
posted by entropicamericana at 9:35 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is it too early for that, because he'd likely be expected to resign in that case?
We left all normal reasons for resigning behind long ago, so who knows?
posted by Artw at 9:36 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
We left all normal reasons for resigning behind long ago, so who knows?
posted by Artw at 9:36 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
For that matter, anyone think that there is there any chance Sessions will invoke Fifth Amendment?
He doesn't need to invoke the 5th. He can just say anything incriminating "is not appropriate to discuss in an open session".
posted by Talez at 9:37 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
He doesn't need to invoke the 5th. He can just say anything incriminating "is not appropriate to discuss in an open session".
posted by Talez at 9:37 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
> who doesn't already know that the Republican party wants to move wealth upwards and dismantle social security and healthcare
There are some who know this, but see it as a feature, not a bug. We needn't concern ourselves with them -- anyone who still believes in supply-side economics after watching it fail spectacularly from Reagan to Brownback cannot be reasoned with.
There are also some who know this, and view it as a serious problem -- those are our allies.
However, there's a third group, that knows this is what the GOP has always wanted, but assumes that people like them will still get the assistance they need, even as it's being taken away from others. The fact that the "face-eating leopards" joke has become an entire genre of journalism that focuses on disaffected Trump voters who have been harmed by his policies shows that this is not a small group.
The Democratic party's job in the next 16 months or so is to highlight the looting and the upward redistribution of wealth in ways that help bring out the base, but also reaches some of the people who thought Trump would privilege their needs above those of others. To be clear, these people are assholes, and I don't want to share a planet with them, but as long as they're on it, we need their votes to take back the House. The message has to be about how Trump is not unique figure or a diversion from GOP orthodoxy, but the apotheosis of Republican governance, backed by a Republican Congress. His failures are the party's failures.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:38 AM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
There are some who know this, but see it as a feature, not a bug. We needn't concern ourselves with them -- anyone who still believes in supply-side economics after watching it fail spectacularly from Reagan to Brownback cannot be reasoned with.
There are also some who know this, and view it as a serious problem -- those are our allies.
However, there's a third group, that knows this is what the GOP has always wanted, but assumes that people like them will still get the assistance they need, even as it's being taken away from others. The fact that the "face-eating leopards" joke has become an entire genre of journalism that focuses on disaffected Trump voters who have been harmed by his policies shows that this is not a small group.
The Democratic party's job in the next 16 months or so is to highlight the looting and the upward redistribution of wealth in ways that help bring out the base, but also reaches some of the people who thought Trump would privilege their needs above those of others. To be clear, these people are assholes, and I don't want to share a planet with them, but as long as they're on it, we need their votes to take back the House. The message has to be about how Trump is not unique figure or a diversion from GOP orthodoxy, but the apotheosis of Republican governance, backed by a Republican Congress. His failures are the party's failures.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:38 AM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
He doesn't need to invoke the 5th. He can just say anything incriminating "is not appropriate to discuss in an open session".
Yeah, but he could have done that last time as well.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:40 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but he could have done that last time as well.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:40 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pompeo, just now: it's an incredible honor to serve as your CIA director, it's an incredible privilege to lead the men and women who are providing intelligence so we can do the national security mission, and in the finest tradition of the CIA I'm not gonna say a damn thing in front of the media." (followed by nine seconds of laughter and a "here, here!")
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:40 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:40 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, hey, I haven't heard much from anyone furious to primary Feinstein recently. Looks like she's getting complacent.
posted by jackbishop at 9:41 AM on June 12, 2017 [63 favorites]
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said Sunday that Congress should investigate whether former Attorney General Loretta Lynch pressured former FBI Director James Comey to cover for Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.Because, y'know, kneecapping Hillary Clinton is super important and relevant right now.
"I think we need to know more about that," Feinstein told host Brianna Keilar on CNN's "State of the Union."
"And there's only way to know about it, and that's to have the Judiciary Committee take a look at that," Feinstein, the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said.
posted by jackbishop at 9:41 AM on June 12, 2017 [63 favorites]
Oh, FFS Feinstein. STOP IT. WE DON'T CARE.
posted by suelac at 9:42 AM on June 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by suelac at 9:42 AM on June 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Is it possible Feinstein is saying that as part of a deal to get some cooperation from Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee? (Otherwise it seems badbadnotgood)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:43 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:43 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
According to Twitter, Sessions is going to claim executive privilege for all conversations with POTUS before Comey's firing.
posted by chris24 at 9:45 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 9:45 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
AT this point I think she's just a Lieberman style motherfucker who wants to destroy as much of the Democratic party form the inside as possible for the shear sake of it
posted by Artw at 9:45 AM on June 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:45 AM on June 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
You are the Duke of New York, you're A#1!
Also, you know who else demanded personal loyalty oaths?
posted by kirkaracha at 9:46 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also, you know who else demanded personal loyalty oaths?
posted by kirkaracha at 9:46 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
A since-fired government official asking Comey to use some gentler terminology is not quite the same as the sitting president asking him to pledge loyalty and shut down the Flynn investigation and subsequently firing him on the explicit basis that he didn't like the Russia investigation.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:46 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:46 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you fancy a change of (MetaFilter) scene from US politics, the UK election thread is still going. Currently, this being the UK, we've just dealt with goats (more specifically: the skin of, in order for the Queen's Speech to be written on, hence possibly the delay in the opening of parliament as it has to dry) and are now on to the audibility of desk banging to greet the prime minister in private session. The overarching topic of this week is the fundamentalist party the Conservatives may have to negotiate with in order to run a government.
tl;dr
posted by Wordshore at 9:50 AM on June 12, 2017 [29 favorites]
tl;dr
posted by Wordshore at 9:50 AM on June 12, 2017 [29 favorites]
And it really bugs me that accusations of russophobia are being leveled against alarmed responses to what the Russian government is doing.
I think it's be only to be expected that a propaganda campaign would be enacted in response to revelations of Russian hacking. And Russiaphobia is perfect for being used as a weapon by Leftists. Hell, back in October I was seeing cries of "remember McCarthy!" in places such as ONTD:Political.
Even here it works: remember the FPP about Russiaphobia? A couple out of context quotes, and a lot of concern trolling about hating Russia, and NOTHING about the hacks, except an implication that the hacking reports were just Russisphobia in action. Propaganda. It's everywhere.
posted by happyroach at 9:53 AM on June 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
I think it's be only to be expected that a propaganda campaign would be enacted in response to revelations of Russian hacking. And Russiaphobia is perfect for being used as a weapon by Leftists. Hell, back in October I was seeing cries of "remember McCarthy!" in places such as ONTD:Political.
Even here it works: remember the FPP about Russiaphobia? A couple out of context quotes, and a lot of concern trolling about hating Russia, and NOTHING about the hacks, except an implication that the hacking reports were just Russisphobia in action. Propaganda. It's everywhere.
posted by happyroach at 9:53 AM on June 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
Honestly, it took me several posts to realize that the goatskin ink-drying thing wasn't a joke. British politics is wacky in a totally different, way funner way than American politics is wacky!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:55 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:55 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
There is a Wikipedia article for Ed Miliband bacon sandwich photograph. It's notable that Ed Miliband never committed serial sexual assault or gave Israeli intelligence to the Russians.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:59 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:59 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
There have definitely been some funny-Russian-accent jokes, generalizations about Russian culture, etc here that have been pretty uncool, and I say this as someone who was absolutely frothing at the dismissals of Russian hacking last year that invoked McCarthyism or Clinton wanting to reboot the Cold War or whatever. And the response to that Russophobia FPP was kind of a bummer, too. So, yeah, the more the Russia scandal gains traction the more mindful we have to be about not being assholes to/about Russian people. I'm sure we can manage that.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:00 AM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:00 AM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
9th Circuit upholds travel ban partial injunction: PDF of opinion here.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:00 AM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 10:00 AM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Is "Ed Miliband" the Commonwealth spelling for "Joe Biden"?
posted by pxe2000 at 10:14 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by pxe2000 at 10:14 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Senate GOP won't release draft health care bill: "We aren't stupid," said one of the aides. One issue is that Senate Republicans plan to keep talking about it after the draft is done: "We are still in discussions about what will be in the final product so it is premature to release any draft absent further member conversations and consensus."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:17 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:17 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
He doesn't need to invoke the 5th. He can just say anything incriminating "is not appropriate to discuss in an open session".
The follow up to that should always be "What secrets are keeping from American coal miners?"
posted by srboisvert at 10:19 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
The follow up to that should always be "What secrets are keeping from American coal miners?"
posted by srboisvert at 10:19 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Russian people are curently protestingPutin right now, so more power to them.
But we all know that when we say "Russian" it's not them but their shitty government and dictator we mean.
posted by Artw at 10:21 AM on June 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
But we all know that when we say "Russian" it's not them but their shitty government and dictator we mean.
posted by Artw at 10:21 AM on June 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Good morning. Zachlipton here to implore you to make a phone call or two today.
The AHCA is seemingly getting ever closer in the Senate. It's real, and it could pass. If you are represented by a Republican Senator, please take two minutes to call their offices right now and let them know you oppose the AHCA and any cuts to Mediciad. There are a number of reports that there just haven't been many calls, thanks to the Republicans' effort to do this in secret, so your call could make a big difference.
Please call. AHCA bad; Medicaid good. Thank you.
posted by zachlipton at 10:22 AM on June 12, 2017 [56 favorites]
The AHCA is seemingly getting ever closer in the Senate. It's real, and it could pass. If you are represented by a Republican Senator, please take two minutes to call their offices right now and let them know you oppose the AHCA and any cuts to Mediciad. There are a number of reports that there just haven't been many calls, thanks to the Republicans' effort to do this in secret, so your call could make a big difference.
Please call. AHCA bad; Medicaid good. Thank you.
posted by zachlipton at 10:22 AM on June 12, 2017 [56 favorites]
“When you wonder why certain people act certain ways,” he said, “You have to remember these people have been warned that their dirty laundry could be aired.” (Spokespeople for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the FBI declined to comment.)
Anthony Weiner announces the revival of his political career with the slogan "You've seen my laundry. I can't be further compromised"
posted by srboisvert at 10:24 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Anthony Weiner announces the revival of his political career with the slogan "You've seen my laundry. I can't be further compromised"
posted by srboisvert at 10:24 AM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
From the 9th circuit ruling: Indeed, the President recently confirmed his assessment that it is the “countries”
that are inherently dangerous, rather than the 180 million individual nationals of those countries who are barred
from entry under the President’s “travel ban.” See Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump), Twitter (June 5, 2017, 6:20 PM), https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/871899511525961728 (“That’s right, we need a TRAVEL BAN for certain DANGEROUS countries, not some politically correct term that won’t help us protect our people!”) (emphasis in original); see also Elizabeth Landers, White House: Trump’s tweets are “official statements”, CNN (June 6, 2017, 4:37 PM).
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:25 AM on June 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
that are inherently dangerous, rather than the 180 million individual nationals of those countries who are barred
from entry under the President’s “travel ban.” See Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump), Twitter (June 5, 2017, 6:20 PM), https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/871899511525961728 (“That’s right, we need a TRAVEL BAN for certain DANGEROUS countries, not some politically correct term that won’t help us protect our people!”) (emphasis in original); see also Elizabeth Landers, White House: Trump’s tweets are “official statements”, CNN (June 6, 2017, 4:37 PM).
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:25 AM on June 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
They're tribal enough that nothing will reach them. If you want them to stop voting for Republicans, you dupe them by rebranding Democratic candidates as "Republic Party" candidates.
I would kind of like to see this happen. We should run a Democrat for every seat, of course, but if Republicans can lie to their base and get elected, then why shouldn't progressives do the same (lie to the Republican base). Surely there are some stealth Democrats/Progressives in the deep red parts of the country who could run as Republicans and win.
posted by Blue Genie at 10:26 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I would kind of like to see this happen. We should run a Democrat for every seat, of course, but if Republicans can lie to their base and get elected, then why shouldn't progressives do the same (lie to the Republican base). Surely there are some stealth Democrats/Progressives in the deep red parts of the country who could run as Republicans and win.
posted by Blue Genie at 10:26 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
This travel ban blocks people who haven't been to the countries in question since they were toddlers.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:26 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:26 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'd add that if you have a Democratic Senator, they would still like to hear and document your words condemning the AHCA and/or supporting any and all procedural efforts to block it's passing.
I tend to e-mail both of my D senators but call or fax my GOP rep.
posted by VTX at 10:27 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
I tend to e-mail both of my D senators but call or fax my GOP rep.
posted by VTX at 10:27 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
McCain: ‘American Leadership’ Abroad Was Better Under Obama
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said that “American leadership” on the global stage was better under President Barack Obama than it is under President Donald Trump, according to a Sunday report in The Guardian.posted by kirkaracha at 10:27 AM on June 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
The Guardian asked McCain, a critic of Obama’s foreign policy, if America’s standing in the world was better under Obama.
“As far as American leadership is concerned, yes,” McCain replied.
Start up a leftist progressive party, call it the Real Republican Party, watch some heads explode.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:28 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Rename the Democratic Party to the Republican party and de facto abolish parties.
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 10:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 10:30 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
BroadwayWorld: Delta Sponsored 2012 Guthrie Theater Season Which Featured Obama Inspired Julius Caesar: BroadwayWorld has learned that in their 2012 season, during which Delta Airlines was a Business Circle sponsor - The Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis presented an Obama inspired Julius Caesar co-produced with The Acting Company.
Though information on the level of financing Delta contributed for the year 2012 was unavailable, this year they donated between $100,000 and $249,000 to the Gurtrie Theater.
MSP Mag described the production in a review: "And, because Caesar is cast as a tall, lanky black man, the Obama inference is a bit too obvious. But it fits, sort of. Like Caesar, Obama rose to power on a tide of public goodwill; like Caesar, there were many in government who doubted Obama's leadership abilities; and now that Obama's first term has failed to live up to the messianic hype, there are plenty of people who-for the good of the country, you understand, not their own glory-want to take Obama down."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:31 AM on June 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
Though information on the level of financing Delta contributed for the year 2012 was unavailable, this year they donated between $100,000 and $249,000 to the Gurtrie Theater.
MSP Mag described the production in a review: "And, because Caesar is cast as a tall, lanky black man, the Obama inference is a bit too obvious. But it fits, sort of. Like Caesar, Obama rose to power on a tide of public goodwill; like Caesar, there were many in government who doubted Obama's leadership abilities; and now that Obama's first term has failed to live up to the messianic hype, there are plenty of people who-for the good of the country, you understand, not their own glory-want to take Obama down."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:31 AM on June 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
Hold on to yer Butts people, John McCain has some Concerns
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:31 AM on June 12, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:31 AM on June 12, 2017 [46 favorites]
The 9th circuit also cited Justice Murphy's dissent to Korematsu (Japanese internment). That's not a subtle message.
With the AHCA, I think all the secrecy and refusal to let anyone see the bill speaks to a guilty mind. Just as we know Trump knew he was asking for something inappropriate when he made everyone leave the room before he talked to Comey, we know the Republicans know they're doing something terrible because they won't let anyone see what they're doing.
Anyway, it's Spicey Time (if and when he bothers to show up).
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
With the AHCA, I think all the secrecy and refusal to let anyone see the bill speaks to a guilty mind. Just as we know Trump knew he was asking for something inappropriate when he made everyone leave the room before he talked to Comey, we know the Republicans know they're doing something terrible because they won't let anyone see what they're doing.
Anyway, it's Spicey Time (if and when he bothers to show up).
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 AM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
Honestly, it took me several posts to realize that the goatskin ink-drying thing wasn't a joke. British politics is wacky in a totally different, way funner way than American politics is wacky!
Ha ha wacky?
posted by Melismata at 10:33 AM on June 12, 2017
Ha ha wacky?
posted by Melismata at 10:33 AM on June 12, 2017
9th Circuit upholds travel ban partial injunction: PDF of opinion here.
Some highlights:
-Trump's tweets (and Spicer's confirmation that they're "official statements") makes it into the opinion (fn 14 on pg 40)
-There's a discussion of the issue at the heart of the Sally Yates/Ted Cruz exchange around pg 52 (spoiler: Yates got it right - later-in-time law constrains application of the earlier-in-time law)
-Obama said admitting 110,000 refugees in 2017 was in our national interest, what changed since that pronouncement such that admitting >50K would be detrimental to national security?
-the number of refugees admitted has to be determined before the fiscal year starts (the president can, in consultation with Congress, increase the number but not decrease it)
-Congress can change the laws if they want and explicitly delegate the power to Trump (with an implied "good luck with that")
-the government submitted no evidence of the harms that might result if the injunction stayed in place and amici submitted evidence that the ban does more to harm national security than help it
-BUT, the first injunction was too broad, it shouldn't have enjoined the parts of the EO that relate to internal gov't actions (like studying refugee admission procedures) and shouldn't have enjoined Trump personally.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:34 AM on June 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
Some highlights:
-Trump's tweets (and Spicer's confirmation that they're "official statements") makes it into the opinion (fn 14 on pg 40)
-There's a discussion of the issue at the heart of the Sally Yates/Ted Cruz exchange around pg 52 (spoiler: Yates got it right - later-in-time law constrains application of the earlier-in-time law)
-Obama said admitting 110,000 refugees in 2017 was in our national interest, what changed since that pronouncement such that admitting >50K would be detrimental to national security?
-the number of refugees admitted has to be determined before the fiscal year starts (the president can, in consultation with Congress, increase the number but not decrease it)
-Congress can change the laws if they want and explicitly delegate the power to Trump (with an implied "good luck with that")
-the government submitted no evidence of the harms that might result if the injunction stayed in place and amici submitted evidence that the ban does more to harm national security than help it
-BUT, the first injunction was too broad, it shouldn't have enjoined the parts of the EO that relate to internal gov't actions (like studying refugee admission procedures) and shouldn't have enjoined Trump personally.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:34 AM on June 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
Hold on to yer Butts people, John McCain has some Concerns
I was tired of hearing what John McCain thinks even before his performance during the Comey testimony. Now that I know he's incapable of complex thoughts, I'm even less interested in hearing what he has to say. You might as well ask a random guy on the street.
posted by diogenes at 10:36 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I was tired of hearing what John McCain thinks even before his performance during the Comey testimony. Now that I know he's incapable of complex thoughts, I'm even less interested in hearing what he has to say. You might as well ask a random guy on the street.
posted by diogenes at 10:36 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, there are too very small "but"s? Have the Fox News "FULL VINDICATION" headlines hit the streets yet?
posted by solotoro at 10:37 AM on June 12, 2017
posted by solotoro at 10:37 AM on June 12, 2017
9th Circuit endorses tweets to presidential statements bot.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:39 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:39 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
“As far as American leadership is concerned, yes,” McCain replied.
Obviously he has other concerns that outweight stuff like that though, or he'd actually do something.
posted by Artw at 10:44 AM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Obviously he has other concerns that outweight stuff like that though, or he'd actually do something.
posted by Artw at 10:44 AM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh, there are too very small 'but's?
I like big "buts" and I'll tell you why.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:48 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
if Republicans can lie to their base and get elected, then why shouldn't progressives do the same (lie to the Republican base).
I'm guessing you're being facetious, but I think this is the one thing we absolutely cannot do. To the Republican base, our own base, or anybody else. If there's one thing that puts us on the correct side of American politics and underlies the integrity of the positions we take, it's our credibility—and nothing would sink our credibility faster than lying.
Yes, Republicans and others have made cornerstones—careers even—out of lying, and it's not fair that they can lie and we can't. But when you deal in credibility, you're bound by different rules than the bullshitters are. It's not about moralizing or taking the high road: it's about what we have to offer that the Rs can't.
posted by Rykey at 10:55 AM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm guessing you're being facetious, but I think this is the one thing we absolutely cannot do. To the Republican base, our own base, or anybody else. If there's one thing that puts us on the correct side of American politics and underlies the integrity of the positions we take, it's our credibility—and nothing would sink our credibility faster than lying.
Yes, Republicans and others have made cornerstones—careers even—out of lying, and it's not fair that they can lie and we can't. But when you deal in credibility, you're bound by different rules than the bullshitters are. It's not about moralizing or taking the high road: it's about what we have to offer that the Rs can't.
posted by Rykey at 10:55 AM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Secretary Acosta has been talking about apprenticeships (basically get the private sector to work with educational institutions more) and keeps mentioning and praising Ivanka over and over again. He knows where his bread is buttered.
posted by zachlipton at 10:56 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 10:56 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I slept fitfully last night, due to the UK's current determination to recast government as some sort of Beckett play interpreted by Monty Python (little suspecting how much more so today would be), and had a dream set in the Oval Office. 45 was receiving a stream of ambassadors with a large hessian sack open on the desk.
The Moroccan Ambassador comes in, shakes 45's hand, the camera flashes go off, 45 points to the sack and the ambassador takes a large bundle of cash out of his pocket and puts it in.
The Indonesian Ambassador comes in, shakes 45's hand, cameras flash, 45 points, cash in the bag.
The Peruvian Ambassador comes in, handshake, cameras, bag point, cash.
The Russian Ambassador comes in, shakes hands, then he points to the bag.
45 picks it up and hands it over.
They pose for the cameras mid-handover, smiling.
Now, I don't know exactly what prompted this mash-up of the emoluments clause, the presumed financial Russian kompromat, and the media, but clearly there's some part of my brain which, when unhinged enough, is still trying to work out a single dramatic narrative through all this.
posted by Devonian at 10:57 AM on June 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
The Moroccan Ambassador comes in, shakes 45's hand, the camera flashes go off, 45 points to the sack and the ambassador takes a large bundle of cash out of his pocket and puts it in.
The Indonesian Ambassador comes in, shakes 45's hand, cameras flash, 45 points, cash in the bag.
The Peruvian Ambassador comes in, handshake, cameras, bag point, cash.
The Russian Ambassador comes in, shakes hands, then he points to the bag.
45 picks it up and hands it over.
They pose for the cameras mid-handover, smiling.
Now, I don't know exactly what prompted this mash-up of the emoluments clause, the presumed financial Russian kompromat, and the media, but clearly there's some part of my brain which, when unhinged enough, is still trying to work out a single dramatic narrative through all this.
posted by Devonian at 10:57 AM on June 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
And so as not to abuse the Edit window with a last-minute thought... For the record, I am absolutely for dispensing with civility and fighting dirty when it's called for—up to, but not including, lying to voters.
posted by Rykey at 10:59 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Rykey at 10:59 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Soon to be former AG Sessions is not a great legal mind. He has been in a position to learn and has been surrounded with some stellar resources but remains befuddled. A few years ago the Senate Judiciary was holding a hearing (I don't remember what the subject was) and the issue of lawyer client privilege came up. Then Sen. Sessions suggested that privilege meant that no matter what the client told the lawyer, it had to be kept totally secret. Then he gave an example. It was something like a client telling his lawyer that he had murdered his family and they were currently in the freezer in the garage. Sessions declared that the lawyer hands were tied, bound by privilege.
The entire committee let out an audible gasp. A couple of people (I remember Sen. Leahy especially) grabbed their wits and interrupted Sessions to both question if they had heard correctly his interpretation and then explained that there was no privilege to an obvious admission of crime and actually a duty to report or become complicit. Sessions seemed flabbergasted by this news and asked if they were sure. The committee let out a chorus of "Yes" with a hint of "How stupid are you?" and "Dear god, is there something you need to tell us Jeff?"
Sessions remained stunned, lost his line of questioning, and you could almost see the hamster wheel driven gears in his skull working over the revelatory information ... I look forward to his testimony.
posted by phoque at 11:04 AM on June 12, 2017 [137 favorites]
The entire committee let out an audible gasp. A couple of people (I remember Sen. Leahy especially) grabbed their wits and interrupted Sessions to both question if they had heard correctly his interpretation and then explained that there was no privilege to an obvious admission of crime and actually a duty to report or become complicit. Sessions seemed flabbergasted by this news and asked if they were sure. The committee let out a chorus of "Yes" with a hint of "How stupid are you?" and "Dear god, is there something you need to tell us Jeff?"
Sessions remained stunned, lost his line of questioning, and you could almost see the hamster wheel driven gears in his skull working over the revelatory information ... I look forward to his testimony.
posted by phoque at 11:04 AM on June 12, 2017 [137 favorites]
I look forward to his testimony.
Damn, that's quite a story. Does anyone recall when it was?
posted by Surely This at 11:10 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Damn, that's quite a story. Does anyone recall when it was?
posted by Surely This at 11:10 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Spicer said that "it depends on the scope of the questions" whether Sessions should invoke Executive Privilege tomorrow. As to whether the President thinks it's ok for Sessions to testify, Spicer won't go there and simply says "he's going to testify."
WaPo: When a liberal power lawyer represents the Trump family, things can get ugly
posted by zachlipton at 11:10 AM on June 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
WaPo: When a liberal power lawyer represents the Trump family, things can get ugly
In a quintessentially D.C. move, some longtime friends of Gorelick contacted for this article offered complimentary comments about her on the record, and then, after asking if they could make other remarks without attribution, bashed their colleague to smithereens. Those people will not be quoted in this article, by name or anonymously, as one tiny bulwark against outright awfulness.Going to be rather awkward around the office now.
posted by zachlipton at 11:10 AM on June 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
Thinking a bit more, I think the hearing was about reporter privilege. Sessions thought they had too many rights and was trying to push back. And it was probably more than a few years, probably closer to a decade.
posted by phoque at 11:12 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by phoque at 11:12 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wow, I knew he was a racist keebler elf but I didn't know that he was this ignorant of the law.
Doesn't the Attorney General typically... have to understand the law... kind of?
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:12 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Doesn't the Attorney General typically... have to understand the law... kind of?
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:12 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Those people will not be quoted in this article, by name or anonymously, as one tiny bulwark against outright awfulness.
This doesn't actually form a bulwark against the awfulness and the writer of the article is surely not stupid enough to think it does.
I do not actually care about the awfulness, because I have no sympathy for the subject of the article. I just think it's really hypocritical to talk about how mean people were off the record and then proceed to tell everyone they did it.
posted by winna at 11:16 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
This doesn't actually form a bulwark against the awfulness and the writer of the article is surely not stupid enough to think it does.
I do not actually care about the awfulness, because I have no sympathy for the subject of the article. I just think it's really hypocritical to talk about how mean people were off the record and then proceed to tell everyone they did it.
posted by winna at 11:16 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
re:AHCA, when will there be a CBO score for the senate version? Flake has mentioned he won't vote for a bill without a CBO score, and I'd like to remind him of that, but won't if it isn't pertinent.
posted by nat at 11:20 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by nat at 11:20 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
W/r/t the Sessions story, it's been a while since I was a practicing lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that a client's admission to a crime is privileged. I mean, we always told our clients not to tell us whether they committed crimes... but still.
What's not protected is anything that suggests a crime in progress, or that someone is in danger.
At least, this is my recollection.
posted by allthinky at 11:20 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
What's not protected is anything that suggests a crime in progress, or that someone is in danger.
At least, this is my recollection.
posted by allthinky at 11:20 AM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Thinking a bit more, I think the hearing was about reporter privilege. Sessions thought they had too many rights and was trying to push back. And it was probably more than a few years, probably closer to a decade.
Don't ask how I found this, other than the fact that I got really lucky, but was it this exchange on page 16 you're thinking of (real page 16, PDF page 20)?
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Don't ask how I found this, other than the fact that I got really lucky, but was it this exchange on page 16 you're thinking of (real page 16, PDF page 20)?
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
When a liberal power lawyer represents the Trump family, things can get ugly
Hilary Rosen criticizing Gorelick for complicity is pretty fucking rich.
posted by rhizome at 11:22 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hilary Rosen criticizing Gorelick for complicity is pretty fucking rich.
posted by rhizome at 11:22 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Secretary Acosta has been talking about apprenticeships
I think there should be some context here: Acosta talked about apprenticeships and "private-private" partnerships between colleges and business (if a college is a public college, is it still "private-private"?). When asked about funding, it was readily apparent that there is no funding, as Acosta repeated a quickly-tired line that "business already spends $1 billion per year on apprenticeships". Well, Acosta, if they are spending this money already, and the plan provides nothing in addition to that, is it actually a plan at all? I missed some of the reporters' questions, so I hope someone called him on it.
To me, it was clear Acosta was on stage with the express purpose of reducing the number of questions Spicey would need to answer.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 11:23 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think there should be some context here: Acosta talked about apprenticeships and "private-private" partnerships between colleges and business (if a college is a public college, is it still "private-private"?). When asked about funding, it was readily apparent that there is no funding, as Acosta repeated a quickly-tired line that "business already spends $1 billion per year on apprenticeships". Well, Acosta, if they are spending this money already, and the plan provides nothing in addition to that, is it actually a plan at all? I missed some of the reporters' questions, so I hope someone called him on it.
To me, it was clear Acosta was on stage with the express purpose of reducing the number of questions Spicey would need to answer.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 11:23 AM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
> I have my fingers crossed that he's as big of an idiot as I'm convinced he is and will accidentally paint himself into an incriminating corner."Huddled in the corner, Sessions sighed in relief... until he spotted the Hounds of Tindalos."
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 11:32 AM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
In a quintessentially D.C. move, some longtime friends of Gorelick contacted for this article offered complimentary comments about her on the record, and then, after asking if they could make other remarks without attribution, bashed their colleague to smithereens.
Years ago at a holiday party I met one of the attorneys who represented Zacarias Moussaoui. He had to leave the party early and, in a room full of DC lawyers lubricated by holiday cheer, everyone could only talk about how great a guy he was. That says something if representing a Trump is a less popular career move than representing an actual 9/11 conspirator.
posted by peeedro at 11:35 AM on June 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
Years ago at a holiday party I met one of the attorneys who represented Zacarias Moussaoui. He had to leave the party early and, in a room full of DC lawyers lubricated by holiday cheer, everyone could only talk about how great a guy he was. That says something if representing a Trump is a less popular career move than representing an actual 9/11 conspirator.
posted by peeedro at 11:35 AM on June 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
Secretary Acosta has been talking about apprenticeships
Meanwhile, the House is taking up three anti-labor bills this week in committee: “Legislative Reforms to the National Labor Relations Act: H.R. 2776, Workforce Democracy and Fairness Act; H.R. 2775, Employee Privacy Protection Act; and, H.R. 2723, Employee Rights Act.” [note: as usual, the titles are propaganda; these bills are all anti-labor]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:39 AM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Meanwhile, the House is taking up three anti-labor bills this week in committee: “Legislative Reforms to the National Labor Relations Act: H.R. 2776, Workforce Democracy and Fairness Act; H.R. 2775, Employee Privacy Protection Act; and, H.R. 2723, Employee Rights Act.” [note: as usual, the titles are propaganda; these bills are all anti-labor]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:39 AM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
she's a rich, pretty young white girl
She's a 35-year-old woman who hasn't been a girl for longer than some people reading this have been alive. Less importantly, she looks exactly like her father.
You may think you can minimize her adult agency without minimizing her culpability for her crimes, but you can't. Feeding this perception of her helps her as surely as it demeans women in general. you can't pull this and be a useful critic of her bad words and bad actions.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:40 AM on June 12, 2017 [76 favorites]
She's a 35-year-old woman who hasn't been a girl for longer than some people reading this have been alive. Less importantly, she looks exactly like her father.
You may think you can minimize her adult agency without minimizing her culpability for her crimes, but you can't. Feeding this perception of her helps her as surely as it demeans women in general. you can't pull this and be a useful critic of her bad words and bad actions.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:40 AM on June 12, 2017 [76 favorites]
That round-table thing is really strange. But it seems to be part of the administration getting into full bunker siege mood, which is sick but also a good sign for the rest of civilization. Besieged leaders rarely last long.
One thing I am thinking about is that while the Republican leaders (outside the WH) are still pretending to back up the president, they may be sending messages every day that this has gone to far. I don't mean subtle hints at hearings or conversations with editorial writers, but direct phone calls or informal meetings with WH staff where they clearly say that this is unsustainable.
Obviously, they don't care about people dying or anything, but Trump is directly harming the party and the rotten interests of many of the individual congressmen and -women.
posted by mumimor at 11:44 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
One thing I am thinking about is that while the Republican leaders (outside the WH) are still pretending to back up the president, they may be sending messages every day that this has gone to far. I don't mean subtle hints at hearings or conversations with editorial writers, but direct phone calls or informal meetings with WH staff where they clearly say that this is unsustainable.
Obviously, they don't care about people dying or anything, but Trump is directly harming the party and the rotten interests of many of the individual congressmen and -women.
posted by mumimor at 11:44 AM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sen. Schumer is trolling Trump with a video in which members of his staff go around the table praising him. If you haven't seen the original of Trump's cabinet meeting, it's worth watching the clip. We're well into "Dear Leader" territory here.
posted by zachlipton at 11:44 AM on June 12, 2017 [57 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:44 AM on June 12, 2017 [57 favorites]
This appears to be the relevant bit from the PDF zachliption found, REPORTERS’ PRIVILEGE LEGISLATION: AN ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATION OF ISSUES AND IMPLICATIONS, WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2005, U.S. SENATE, JUDICIARY:
Senator SESSIONS. All right. So it seems to me, now, that if a member of the United States Government, in violation of the security rules of that Government, provides information that is classified to a reporter and that reporter broadcasts it, if it was a lawyer client, the privilege certainly would not apply in that instance because they would be aiding and abetting the crime or actually being a co-conspirator or a co-participant in the crime. Is that correct?posted by XMLicious at 11:45 AM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
Mr. CLYMER. Although it is worth pointing out that the attorney-client privilege does not require that the attorney be involved in the criminal conduct. If the client asked the attorney questions and the client intends to commit a crime by asking those questions, the attorney can be a completely innocent party and the communication still is not privileged.
Senator SESSIONS. Well, but, you know, he has to be advising the client on how to commit the crime, does he not? Victoria, I see back there, says no.
Mr. DIGENOVA. Actually, Senator, in most of the instance where the attorney-client privilege is pierced, it is not because the lawyer was wittingly involved, it is that the lawyer was used unwittingly by the client, they find out about it later, the courts seek their testimony, and the lawyer is delighted to testify about what they were told. That is the majority of the cases where the privilege is pierced.
Sessions' testimony tomorrow will be public. Hope you like popcorn for lunch.
posted by rhizome at 11:48 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 11:48 AM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
zachlipton, yes I think that was the exchange. But I was sure there were Senators who corrected him and not just the panel. Because the agitation in the committee while he put forward his understanding of privilege and criminal ramifications was what was so remarkable.
posted by phoque at 11:49 AM on June 12, 2017
posted by phoque at 11:49 AM on June 12, 2017
Are you guys seeing an uptick in attacks on Mueller and his team today, too? It looks like the orders have been given to start softening support for what was, just weeks ago, the universally lauded selection of Mueller.
Creepy to see it roll out in real time.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:50 AM on June 12, 2017 [60 favorites]
Creepy to see it roll out in real time.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:50 AM on June 12, 2017 [60 favorites]
> I'll be honest here and sneer at those imbecilic bigots who think anything "liberal" and "Democratic" is essentially un-American.
I find myself sneering at them too, yet somehow the combined sneering power of you, me, and everyone else who detests what these people are doing to our country has failed to deliver Democratic control of Congress.
As long as these people are still out there and in need of help from government programs as they've shown themselves to be, the Democrats have an opportunity to double down on themselves as the party that believes that government can help alleviate suffering. Trump presents a unique opportunity, possessing the style of the wealthy banker who foreclosed on your home, and the substance of a shot-for-shot remake of every 1980s trickle-down economic blunder, except Congress is far more in the tank for Trump now than it was for Reagan in the 80s. There are certainly voters who aren't going to ever pull the lever for Democrats, but people who live in these states and districts cite their own direct lived experience of positive outreach, so there are persuadables among the deplorables.
> They're fucking dimwits whose economic value tends to be rounding errors, and I dehumanize them precisely as a reaction their dehumanization of me.
I'm not asking you or anyone else who truly thinks that they personally or liberals in general are sub-human to change their posture -- unilateral disarmament is for suckers. All I'm asking is that we not repeat their mistake when we look out at districts we have to gain ground in -- there are pockets of people who can be reached with a progressive message. Sneering at lines on a map or comments on a Facebook post doesn't move that ball forward in any way.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:53 AM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
I find myself sneering at them too, yet somehow the combined sneering power of you, me, and everyone else who detests what these people are doing to our country has failed to deliver Democratic control of Congress.
As long as these people are still out there and in need of help from government programs as they've shown themselves to be, the Democrats have an opportunity to double down on themselves as the party that believes that government can help alleviate suffering. Trump presents a unique opportunity, possessing the style of the wealthy banker who foreclosed on your home, and the substance of a shot-for-shot remake of every 1980s trickle-down economic blunder, except Congress is far more in the tank for Trump now than it was for Reagan in the 80s. There are certainly voters who aren't going to ever pull the lever for Democrats, but people who live in these states and districts cite their own direct lived experience of positive outreach, so there are persuadables among the deplorables.
> They're fucking dimwits whose economic value tends to be rounding errors, and I dehumanize them precisely as a reaction their dehumanization of me.
I'm not asking you or anyone else who truly thinks that they personally or liberals in general are sub-human to change their posture -- unilateral disarmament is for suckers. All I'm asking is that we not repeat their mistake when we look out at districts we have to gain ground in -- there are pockets of people who can be reached with a progressive message. Sneering at lines on a map or comments on a Facebook post doesn't move that ball forward in any way.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:53 AM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Huffington Post had a linguistically interesting headline today, "Trump Slips on Ban Appeal." So strange to make a subliminal joke like that. I was wondering why they chose the wording, then I saw the thing, "Slips on a banana peel." I guess I am on the other side of the hill.
posted by Oyéah at 11:58 AM on June 12, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 11:58 AM on June 12, 2017 [45 favorites]
The lawsuit has been flying under the radar, but looks like it's moving forward:
Federal judge denies Trump administration appeal in youth climate lawsuit (Natasha Geiling/Think Progress)
posted by Room 641-A at 11:59 AM on June 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
Federal judge denies Trump administration appeal in youth climate lawsuit (Natasha Geiling/Think Progress)
Earlier this week, the Trump administration filed a notice to the District Court of Oregon, on which Judge Aiken presides, giving the court until June 9 to issue a decision on the appeal. If the court did not issue such a decision, the filing said, the defendants would seek a ruling directly from the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals — a move that Our Children’s Trust, the organization behind the plaintiff’s suit, called “remarkable.”And re the apprenticeships, thanks all, I knew it couldnt have been something good that originated with this adminstration.
In her denial of the appeal, Aiken took a moment to point out the irony in the defendant’s request for an expedited decision, writing that “the government’s belief that it is legally entitled to an immediate ruling on a motion it submitted three months ago is rather ironic given that it waited four months to file the request for interlocutory certification in the first place.”
posted by Room 641-A at 11:59 AM on June 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
Regarding Jamie Gorelick and choosing to work for that obnoxious, spoilt, stupid, complicit shithead and her likely treasonous husband, just UGH. It's extremely important to separate two types of representation: public defense and private attorneys who are hired guns for whoever can pay.
The former situation is mandated in the Constitution and is intended to ensure that people with no money can obtain a rigorous legal defense, so the government, in theory, cannot totally steamroll a poor defendant with charges and stick them in jail with nary a protest anywhere. The later situation involves voluntarily taking on a client, for financial gain. If you're rich enough to hire virtually any lawyer, but none will take your case--well, that's not a Constitution violation; and let's be clear--private attorneys, in my understanding, do not have to take every possible case. Moreover, said Constitution does not guarantee anyone public acclaim or freedom from scorn for attorneys who make these sorts of choices.
I really bristle and her and Dershowitz's contention that choosing to represent someone shouldn't harm one's representation. If you're ostensibly against people being forced to give birth, but voluntarily represent an organization that is a proponent of forced birth at the tune of $1000+ an hour, then surprise surprise, it's pretty damned hard to take that ostensible pro-choice stance very seriously.
Similarly, if you're tearing up about political polarization, but representing the jackass who advocated locking a political opponent, encouraged political violence at his rallies, and generally shat upon all governmental norms, yeah... I can only conclude that partisan polarization isn't really that big of a deal to you.
So yeah, Alan Dershowitz and Jamie Gorelick--feel free to fuck right off with your crocodile tears.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:08 PM on June 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
The former situation is mandated in the Constitution and is intended to ensure that people with no money can obtain a rigorous legal defense, so the government, in theory, cannot totally steamroll a poor defendant with charges and stick them in jail with nary a protest anywhere. The later situation involves voluntarily taking on a client, for financial gain. If you're rich enough to hire virtually any lawyer, but none will take your case--well, that's not a Constitution violation; and let's be clear--private attorneys, in my understanding, do not have to take every possible case. Moreover, said Constitution does not guarantee anyone public acclaim or freedom from scorn for attorneys who make these sorts of choices.
I really bristle and her and Dershowitz's contention that choosing to represent someone shouldn't harm one's representation. If you're ostensibly against people being forced to give birth, but voluntarily represent an organization that is a proponent of forced birth at the tune of $1000+ an hour, then surprise surprise, it's pretty damned hard to take that ostensible pro-choice stance very seriously.
Similarly, if you're tearing up about political polarization, but representing the jackass who advocated locking a political opponent, encouraged political violence at his rallies, and generally shat upon all governmental norms, yeah... I can only conclude that partisan polarization isn't really that big of a deal to you.
So yeah, Alan Dershowitz and Jamie Gorelick--feel free to fuck right off with your crocodile tears.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:08 PM on June 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
Donald Trump is Surrounded by Tigers
Priebus Apologizes for Tragic Scheduling Error
Seriously Trump seems extremely comfortable discussing winning athletes on TV and I wish he would go back to just doing that sort of thing instead of the whole nuclear arsenal thing
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:11 PM on June 12, 2017
Priebus Apologizes for Tragic Scheduling Error
Seriously Trump seems extremely comfortable discussing winning athletes on TV and I wish he would go back to just doing that sort of thing instead of the whole nuclear arsenal thing
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:11 PM on June 12, 2017
Video of Trump's cabinet taking turns to praise He who Is Trump, along with a parody video by Senator Schumer
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:19 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:19 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mattis turned down White House calls to go on ‘Fox & Friends’: report [from NYT originally]
Ivanka: You need to go on Fox and Friends to say what Daddy needs to do.
Mattis: Fuck that, I'll just write him a memo.
Ivanka: That's how you write him a memo.
posted by msalt at 12:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
Ivanka: You need to go on Fox and Friends to say what Daddy needs to do.
Mattis: Fuck that, I'll just write him a memo.
Ivanka: That's how you write him a memo.
posted by msalt at 12:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
I really bristle and her and Dershowitz's contention that choosing to represent someone shouldn't harm one's representation. If you're ostensibly against people being forced to give birth, but voluntarily represent an organization that is a proponent of forced birth at the tune of $1000+ an hour, then surprise surprise, it's pretty damned hard to take that ostensible pro-choice stance very seriously.
How about doctors?
If a doctor performs a service (like a surgical procedure) to Donald Trump in exchange for remuneration, are her personal beliefs up for question as well?
Criminal attorneys voluntarily represent rapists and murderers for money all the time; that doesn't mean they're pro-rape or pro-murder.
Treating professionals as complicit for doing their jobs (and getting paid, because that's what jobs are) is a pretty problematic position.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:23 PM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
How about doctors?
If a doctor performs a service (like a surgical procedure) to Donald Trump in exchange for remuneration, are her personal beliefs up for question as well?
Criminal attorneys voluntarily represent rapists and murderers for money all the time; that doesn't mean they're pro-rape or pro-murder.
Treating professionals as complicit for doing their jobs (and getting paid, because that's what jobs are) is a pretty problematic position.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:23 PM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Virginia is no longer a ‘purple’ state
A few years ago, one would have said Perriello didn’t have a chance in a statewide general elections. Democrats couldn’t run too far left for fear of generating a strong backlash in conservative strongholds and losing college-educated, professional white voters in Northern Virginia. Now, however, most any Democrat to the right of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) can rack up a huge lead in Northern Virginia counties and turn out the minority vote in the Richmond area. He’ll lose downstate, red counties, but it hardly matters these days given the margins he can accumulate elsewhere.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:29 PM on June 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
In short, Perriello has about as good a chance as Northam of beating Gillespie. If it’s a base election, Perriello might even have the edge. When the national GOP gets badly out of step with the biggest population centers in Northern Virginia, most any competent Democratic candidate should be able to win.
The Trumps are complaining about the ‘viciousness’ of politics. Irony is dead.
"I didn't believe that I would eat my own face" says face-eating leopard.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:34 PM on June 12, 2017 [59 favorites]
"I didn't believe that I would eat my own face" says face-eating leopard.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:34 PM on June 12, 2017 [59 favorites]
I'm not sure whom to vote for tomorrow; Northam's a good guy with a better chance of winning (as long as the fucking Bernie-bro types stay out of it), but a full-throated progressive like Perriello would be nice to have in Richmond (as long as the fucking downstate BEM Assembly members don't go full-on obstructionist).
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:36 PM on June 12, 2017
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:36 PM on June 12, 2017
Video of Trump's cabinet taking turns to praise He who Is Trump, along with a parody video by Senator Schumer
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:19 AM on June 13 [+] [!]
Can we have more of this from our politicians please? Washington is full of bloviating idiots, and nothing restores a little faith like seeing other politicians call them out on it.
Thank you Chuck Schumer.
posted by saysthis at 12:36 PM on June 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:19 AM on June 13 [+] [!]
Can we have more of this from our politicians please? Washington is full of bloviating idiots, and nothing restores a little faith like seeing other politicians call them out on it.
Thank you Chuck Schumer.
posted by saysthis at 12:36 PM on June 12, 2017 [21 favorites]
John Kelly the “grownup”? Forget it — Homeland Security chief turns out to be another Trump zealot
Kelly is a genuine Trump guy like Sessions, not one of those so-called patriots who took the job for the good of the country to try to temper Trump’s worst instincts. He is efficiently and enthusiastically carrying out the president’s extremist agenda. These “disappointed” Democrats should have looked more closely at the general’s record before they gave him a bipartisan mandate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:37 PM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Kelly is a genuine Trump guy like Sessions, not one of those so-called patriots who took the job for the good of the country to try to temper Trump’s worst instincts. He is efficiently and enthusiastically carrying out the president’s extremist agenda. These “disappointed” Democrats should have looked more closely at the general’s record before they gave him a bipartisan mandate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:37 PM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
In regard to attorney - client priviledge, according to nolo.com:
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/lawyers-lawfirms/attorney-client-privilege.html
Discussions of previous acts are generally subject to the attorney-client privilege. If, for example, if a client tells his lawyer that he robbed a bank, killed someone, or lied about assets during a divorce, the lawyer probably can’t disclose the information.
In contrast, discussion of ongoing or planning a future crime is not covered by privilege.
A finer point was discussed on that Senate panel as quoted above: if a client manipulates an attorney into advice about ongoing crime, and attorney finds out in the future, he can now report this discussion and it's not covered by privilege, even though it concerns what is now a past crime.
IANAL
posted by rainy at 12:38 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/lawyers-lawfirms/attorney-client-privilege.html
Discussions of previous acts are generally subject to the attorney-client privilege. If, for example, if a client tells his lawyer that he robbed a bank, killed someone, or lied about assets during a divorce, the lawyer probably can’t disclose the information.
In contrast, discussion of ongoing or planning a future crime is not covered by privilege.
A finer point was discussed on that Senate panel as quoted above: if a client manipulates an attorney into advice about ongoing crime, and attorney finds out in the future, he can now report this discussion and it's not covered by privilege, even though it concerns what is now a past crime.
IANAL
posted by rainy at 12:38 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Video of Trump's cabinet taking turns to praise He who Is Trump
I wouldn't be surprised by that in the first cabinet meeting after the inauguration, but it's really weird five months in. Unless...this isn't the first cabinet meeting, is it?
posted by kirkaracha at 12:39 PM on June 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
this isn't the first cabinet meeting, is it?
The first full cabinet meeting, held two months later into Trump's term than Obama's first full cabinet meeting. He has had time for 28 visits to Trump-owned golf clubs, so, you know, priorities.
For context, Trump's cabinet was complete as of March 2nd (Acosta, Labor). The cabinet-level officials were complete as of May 15th (Lighthizer, US Trade Representative).
posted by jedicus at 12:47 PM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
The first full cabinet meeting, held two months later into Trump's term than Obama's first full cabinet meeting. He has had time for 28 visits to Trump-owned golf clubs, so, you know, priorities.
For context, Trump's cabinet was complete as of March 2nd (Acosta, Labor). The cabinet-level officials were complete as of May 15th (Lighthizer, US Trade Representative).
posted by jedicus at 12:47 PM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Jcreigh called it: I still want him to go to jail, and that's still never going to happen. Judge'll be like, "Gianforte sounds sorry" and slap him with a fine that is nothing to a billionaire.
Congressman-elect Greg Gianforte was sentenced to community service, a $385 fine and 20 hours of sessions for anger management after pleading guilty to assaulting Guardian reporter Ben Jacobs on the eve of his election.
From the statement Ben Jacobs read in court:
Congressman-elect Greg Gianforte was sentenced to community service, a $385 fine and 20 hours of sessions for anger management after pleading guilty to assaulting Guardian reporter Ben Jacobs on the eve of his election.
From the statement Ben Jacobs read in court:
I have accepted his apology and fully expect his thoughtful words to be followed by concrete actions once he has taken his seat in Congress. I am confident that he will be a strong advocate for a free press and for the first amendment. And I even hope to be able to finally interview him once he has arrived on Capitol Hill.posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [40 favorites]
If this incident were simply between myself and the Congressman-elect, that would be one thing. But it’s had national ramifications on our politics and our culture. While I have no doubt that actions like these were an aberration for Congressman-elect Gianforte personally, I worry that, in the context of our political debate, they have become increasingly common. In recent years, our discourse has grown increasingly rancorous and increasingly vile. This needs to stop.
“It is hard. There’s a level of viciousness that I was not expecting,” Ivanka said. “I was not expecting the intensity of this experience.”
Various people weren't expecting the intensity of their experience with Donald Trump. The Khan family. Rosie O'Donnell. The Mayor of London. President Obama, who, it turns out, was born in Hawaii. Anyone who signed up for Trump University. Israeli intelligence assets undercover with ISIS. Large numbers of women alleging sexual assault. The citizens of six majority-Muslim nations. Mexicans. The poor. Maybe Ivanka should have seen this coming?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [108 favorites]
Various people weren't expecting the intensity of their experience with Donald Trump. The Khan family. Rosie O'Donnell. The Mayor of London. President Obama, who, it turns out, was born in Hawaii. Anyone who signed up for Trump University. Israeli intelligence assets undercover with ISIS. Large numbers of women alleging sexual assault. The citizens of six majority-Muslim nations. Mexicans. The poor. Maybe Ivanka should have seen this coming?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [108 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Virginia is no longer a ‘purple’ state
As a reminder, Rubin one of the many conservative voices at The Washington Post. Just look at the language in these sentences:
posted by peeedro at 12:50 PM on June 12, 2017 [27 favorites]
As a reminder, Rubin one of the many conservative voices at The Washington Post. Just look at the language in these sentences:
Populations in Northern Virginia counties, the suburbs and exurbs of Washington, have swamped the voter rolls. New professionals of all races, more minority voters and a slew of government workers have steadily nudged the state to the left in statewide races.Swamped? The state is getting more liberal because of racial minorities and government workers? That's the kind of analysis that she delivered in her 2012 election coverage, myopic and casually racist.
posted by peeedro at 12:50 PM on June 12, 2017 [27 favorites]
After all that Gianforte has done in recompense, I'd like to see Jacobs now turn around and sue him for personal injury.
posted by rhizome at 12:51 PM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 12:51 PM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Re: Tomorrows VA gubernatorial primary: I'm not a VA voter but someone whose politics, intellect, and political acumen I respect a lot quit a full time job to work for Periello's campaign. Its the kind of implicit endorsement that would leave me no doubts I was doing the right thing by casting a ballot for the guy.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:52 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:52 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, love too see Jennifer Rubin implying that the bucket of vote tallies is not only of a fixed size, but also too small to include those people.
posted by rhizome at 12:54 PM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 12:54 PM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
leotrotsky: I'm genuinely curious and your thoughts and hope that the rest of this post doesn't come across as mean or unnecessarily combative.
If a doctor performs a service (like a surgical procedure) to Donald Trump in exchange for remuneration, are her personal beliefs up for question as well?
It is against the law for hospitals to deny emergency, life-saving treatment to individuals. However, a doctor is not under obligation to take on Donald Trump as a regular or surgical patient if she does not want to (if I'm wrong about that, as a matter of legality, please do let me know).
Furthermore, this sort of thing has happened to trans people many times--a doctor won't be our doctor because they disapprove or because they don't have the expertise. If doctors were to be legally required to be a sort of equal opportunity provider--I'd be okay with that.
Criminal attorneys voluntarily represent rapists and murderers for money all the time; that doesn't mean they're pro-rape or pro-murder.
It's not illegal for them to do so, but they are not entitled to acclaim or freedom from reputational harm for making that choice. I mean, I do not think Alan Dershowitz is a stand-up guy for his role attacking women in the defense of pedophile rapist Jeffery Epstein.
I am not claiming that it was illegal for Dershowitz or Gorelick to take on such cases--I do claim that their morals are questionable because they did so voluntarily. You may disagree.
Are you saying that actions taken as a professional should exclude one from social opprobrium? Do the execs at MSNBC get a pass for hiring the appallingly racist Megyn Kelly who is going to have Sandy Hook conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on her show? Should we take those execs at their word that they want to provide accurate and unbiased reporting? What about Fox News?
For me, one's profession, politics, and publicly espoused personal beliefs are overlapping in these roles. A person can undermine any of those roles by their actions in the spheres of the other.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:07 PM on June 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
If a doctor performs a service (like a surgical procedure) to Donald Trump in exchange for remuneration, are her personal beliefs up for question as well?
It is against the law for hospitals to deny emergency, life-saving treatment to individuals. However, a doctor is not under obligation to take on Donald Trump as a regular or surgical patient if she does not want to (if I'm wrong about that, as a matter of legality, please do let me know).
Furthermore, this sort of thing has happened to trans people many times--a doctor won't be our doctor because they disapprove or because they don't have the expertise. If doctors were to be legally required to be a sort of equal opportunity provider--I'd be okay with that.
Criminal attorneys voluntarily represent rapists and murderers for money all the time; that doesn't mean they're pro-rape or pro-murder.
It's not illegal for them to do so, but they are not entitled to acclaim or freedom from reputational harm for making that choice. I mean, I do not think Alan Dershowitz is a stand-up guy for his role attacking women in the defense of pedophile rapist Jeffery Epstein.
I am not claiming that it was illegal for Dershowitz or Gorelick to take on such cases--I do claim that their morals are questionable because they did so voluntarily. You may disagree.
Are you saying that actions taken as a professional should exclude one from social opprobrium? Do the execs at MSNBC get a pass for hiring the appallingly racist Megyn Kelly who is going to have Sandy Hook conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on her show? Should we take those execs at their word that they want to provide accurate and unbiased reporting? What about Fox News?
For me, one's profession, politics, and publicly espoused personal beliefs are overlapping in these roles. A person can undermine any of those roles by their actions in the spheres of the other.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:07 PM on June 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
WaPo: When a liberal power lawyer represents the Trump family, things can get ugly
Unmentioned in the article is the slight possibility that Gorelick having taken on Jared as a client could torpedo Robert Mueller's investigation, since they were working at the same firm until Mueller resigned to become special counsel. I know Mueller said he never worked on anything involving Jared or Ivanka, and I'm honestly not sure how the ethics rules work in a situation like this, but I also know that it fundamentally doesn't matter to Trump and his cronies what the rules are or whether there's any actual impropriety. We've already seen how they've approached discrediting Comey. They're coming for Mueller next, and this will certainly be used as a tool to assault his credibility in the coming weeks/months. Obviously there's no way Gorelick could have foreseen this exact scenario, but this is the sort of thing that happens when you start taking on people like the Trump family as clients. Hopefully for her, unlike their father, they at least pay their bills.
posted by Copronymus at 1:11 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Unmentioned in the article is the slight possibility that Gorelick having taken on Jared as a client could torpedo Robert Mueller's investigation, since they were working at the same firm until Mueller resigned to become special counsel. I know Mueller said he never worked on anything involving Jared or Ivanka, and I'm honestly not sure how the ethics rules work in a situation like this, but I also know that it fundamentally doesn't matter to Trump and his cronies what the rules are or whether there's any actual impropriety. We've already seen how they've approached discrediting Comey. They're coming for Mueller next, and this will certainly be used as a tool to assault his credibility in the coming weeks/months. Obviously there's no way Gorelick could have foreseen this exact scenario, but this is the sort of thing that happens when you start taking on people like the Trump family as clients. Hopefully for her, unlike their father, they at least pay their bills.
posted by Copronymus at 1:11 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
This FPP is getting a little eponysterical... anyone working on a new post?
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:20 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:20 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Are you saying that actions taken as a professional should exclude one from social opprobrium? Do the execs at MSNBC get a pass for hiring the appallingly racist Megyn Kelly who is going to have Sandy Hook conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on her show?
I think there is a difference in that Megyn Kelly and Alex Jones are not entitled to TV exposure, but criminals are entitled to a lawyer. Lawyers can be criticized for the manner in which they conduct a case, but they should not be criticized merely for the willingness to take a case. Someone has to do it, otherwise the system of justice cannot operate.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think there is a difference in that Megyn Kelly and Alex Jones are not entitled to TV exposure, but criminals are entitled to a lawyer. Lawyers can be criticized for the manner in which they conduct a case, but they should not be criticized merely for the willingness to take a case. Someone has to do it, otherwise the system of justice cannot operate.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
This FPP is getting a little eponysterical... anyone working on a new post?
The Sessions session tomorrow seems like a good impetus.
posted by rhizome at 1:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Sessions session tomorrow seems like a good impetus.
posted by rhizome at 1:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Live and Unplugged - The Sessions Sessions
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:26 PM on June 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:26 PM on June 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
Are you saying that actions taken as a professional should exclude one from social opprobrium? Do the execs at MSNBC get a pass for hiring the appallingly racist Megyn Kelly who is going to have Sandy Hook conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on her show? Should we take those execs at their word that they want to provide accurate and unbiased reporting? What about Fox News?
For me, one's profession, politics, and publicly espoused personal beliefs are overlapping in these roles. A person can undermine any of those roles by their actions in the spheres of the other.
I think that if we start projecting the values of clients onto the professionals who represent them, we are making a mistake. I think this is particularly true for attorneys, given that our legal system is based upon zealous advocacy. People accused of heinous crimes are entitled to vigorous defense just like anyone else. If you start engaging in social opprobrium for their attorneys, I think you make things worse, not better.
For example, the ACLU defended the first amendment rights of neo-nazis in Skokie. Are we to think less of them because of the beliefs of their client?
I think, however that professional fields work a little differently than, say, the execs at CNN, because there is a vocational aspect to professions, a duty to provide 'disinterested objective counsel and service' to client and community above and beyond the compensatory aspects.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:27 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
For me, one's profession, politics, and publicly espoused personal beliefs are overlapping in these roles. A person can undermine any of those roles by their actions in the spheres of the other.
I think that if we start projecting the values of clients onto the professionals who represent them, we are making a mistake. I think this is particularly true for attorneys, given that our legal system is based upon zealous advocacy. People accused of heinous crimes are entitled to vigorous defense just like anyone else. If you start engaging in social opprobrium for their attorneys, I think you make things worse, not better.
For example, the ACLU defended the first amendment rights of neo-nazis in Skokie. Are we to think less of them because of the beliefs of their client?
I think, however that professional fields work a little differently than, say, the execs at CNN, because there is a vocational aspect to professions, a duty to provide 'disinterested objective counsel and service' to client and community above and beyond the compensatory aspects.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:27 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Let's be real here--many people laughed at covfefe because it signaled that the executive might have suffered a disabling cerebral event, and some people who hoped so publicly are disappointed in its aftermath. That's a level of poison in political discourse unmatched since well before any of us were alive.
From the wikipedia page of The Realist.
"Krassner's most successful prank was The Parts That Were Left Out of the Kennedy Book, a grotesque article following the censorship of William Manchester's book on the Kennedy assassination, The Death of a President.[7] At the climax of the short story, Lyndon B. Johnson is on Air Force One sexually penetrating the bullet-hole wound in the throat of JFK's corpse.[7] Krassner acknowledged Marvin Garson, editor of the San Francisco Express Times and husband of Barbara Garson (author of the notorious anti-Johnson play MacBird! ), for coming up with that surreal image. "
That was May 1967. Now I was alive then (Not a precocious subscriber at 3 months old though) but I am guessing most here were not. There has never been a time or place in history where politics were delicate.
posted by srboisvert at 1:31 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
From the wikipedia page of The Realist.
"Krassner's most successful prank was The Parts That Were Left Out of the Kennedy Book, a grotesque article following the censorship of William Manchester's book on the Kennedy assassination, The Death of a President.[7] At the climax of the short story, Lyndon B. Johnson is on Air Force One sexually penetrating the bullet-hole wound in the throat of JFK's corpse.[7] Krassner acknowledged Marvin Garson, editor of the San Francisco Express Times and husband of Barbara Garson (author of the notorious anti-Johnson play MacBird! ), for coming up with that surreal image. "
That was May 1967. Now I was alive then (Not a precocious subscriber at 3 months old though) but I am guessing most here were not. There has never been a time or place in history where politics were delicate.
posted by srboisvert at 1:31 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Lawyers can be criticized for the manner in which they conduct a case, but they should not be criticized merely for the willingness to take a case. Someone has to do it, otherwise the system of justice cannot operate.
Trump is not currently under criminal indictment and Gorelick is representing his private business interests. Not even Donald's, she's Ivanka's lawyer in her business interests. There is absolutely nothing stopping her from refusing those representations and no duty whatsoever compelling her to accept them.
This is like saying there's a duty for a doctor to give Trump his 14000th hair implant surgery. They're not treating him for cancer.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:33 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump is not currently under criminal indictment and Gorelick is representing his private business interests. Not even Donald's, she's Ivanka's lawyer in her business interests. There is absolutely nothing stopping her from refusing those representations and no duty whatsoever compelling her to accept them.
This is like saying there's a duty for a doctor to give Trump his 14000th hair implant surgery. They're not treating him for cancer.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:33 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
> but they should not be criticized merely for the willingness to take a case. Someone has to do it, otherwise the system of justice cannot operate.
This is an overt admission that the system of justice is non-operative for most people right now, since the implication of the statement is that the system of justice only operates for people who are able to pay top-flight lawyers.
When the Trumps are facing criminal charges, they can use overworked public defenders, just like normal people do. But any lawyer who chooses to take their money isn't defending the integrity of the system; at best, they're defending the formal integrity of the system while participating in its material destruction.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:33 PM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
This is an overt admission that the system of justice is non-operative for most people right now, since the implication of the statement is that the system of justice only operates for people who are able to pay top-flight lawyers.
When the Trumps are facing criminal charges, they can use overworked public defenders, just like normal people do. But any lawyer who chooses to take their money isn't defending the integrity of the system; at best, they're defending the formal integrity of the system while participating in its material destruction.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:33 PM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
Live and Unplugged - The Sessions Sessions track listing:
1. I Swear
2. I Don't Recall
3. It's Not Unusual (To Meet With Ambassadors)
4. Long Tall Comey
5. Boom! (Leave The Room)
6. Just Some Foreign Principal That I Used To Know
7. When I Think About You I Recuse Myself
8. Blurred Lines
9. I Don't Recall (Reprise)
10. Party Line Anthem
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:37 PM on June 12, 2017 [122 favorites]
1. I Swear
2. I Don't Recall
3. It's Not Unusual (To Meet With Ambassadors)
4. Long Tall Comey
5. Boom! (Leave The Room)
6. Just Some Foreign Principal That I Used To Know
7. When I Think About You I Recuse Myself
8. Blurred Lines
9. I Don't Recall (Reprise)
10. Party Line Anthem
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:37 PM on June 12, 2017 [122 favorites]
Trump is not currently under criminal indictment and Gorelick is representing his private business interests. Not even Donald's, she's Ivanka's lawyer in her business interests. There is absolutely nothing stopping her from refusing those representations and no duty whatsoever compelling her to accept them.
So do you think the ACLU should have refused to represent the Skokie Neo-Nazis? Their beliefs are pretty abhorrent.
Should Abe Fortas have refused to represent repeat criminal Clarence Earl Gideon?
How good a person do you need to be to deserve a lawyer?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:39 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
So do you think the ACLU should have refused to represent the Skokie Neo-Nazis? Their beliefs are pretty abhorrent.
Should Abe Fortas have refused to represent repeat criminal Clarence Earl Gideon?
How good a person do you need to be to deserve a lawyer?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:39 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
According to Twitter, Sessions is going to claim executive privilege for all conversations with POTUS before Comey's firing.
Well technically, only the President can actually assert executive privilege (right?), so Trump would have to invoke it on behalf of Sessions.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:39 PM on June 12, 2017
Well technically, only the President can actually assert executive privilege (right?), so Trump would have to invoke it on behalf of Sessions.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:39 PM on June 12, 2017
PPP poll: Do you think it is appropriate or inappropriate for Republican politicians to body slam members of the media?
22% appropriate, 69% not appropriate, 9% not sure.
But break it down by vote and 42% of Trump voters think it is appropriate, compared to 6% of Clinton voters.
That's the crazification factor in action. On the bright side, 49% think Trump obstructed justice, to 41% who think he didn't.
posted by zachlipton at 1:40 PM on June 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
22% appropriate, 69% not appropriate, 9% not sure.
But break it down by vote and 42% of Trump voters think it is appropriate, compared to 6% of Clinton voters.
That's the crazification factor in action. On the bright side, 49% think Trump obstructed justice, to 41% who think he didn't.
posted by zachlipton at 1:40 PM on June 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
Encore: Sessudio
posted by emelenjr at 1:41 PM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by emelenjr at 1:41 PM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
they should not be criticized merely for the willingness to take a case
There's a big ol' difference between a lawyer who, for little or no money, takes a case to uphold the principle that anyone accused of a serious crime is entitled to legal representation.
And y'know.
A lawyer like Gorelick, for bucketloads of cash, sells her reputation and expertise to assist Jared and Ivanka in willfully refusing to observe either the spirit or the letter of the law.
Like, in a just universe, none of this would be happening. In a very far from just, but at least occasionally satisfying universe, not only would Gorelick's reputation disappear down the same toilet as those of Marc "Predisent" Kasowitz and Sheri "Empty Folder" Dillon, but she would get massively stiffed on her bills, such that she has to walk into the end-of-year partner meetings for 2017 and be told by the grim-faced executive board and that unless she manages to fix this seven-digit outstanding collectible that is more than 90 days due, she's going to have end up paying the firm back out of the anticipatory draws she'd taken WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T WE ASK FOR MORE THAN A $50,000 RETAINER.
A girl can only hope.
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:42 PM on June 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
There's a big ol' difference between a lawyer who, for little or no money, takes a case to uphold the principle that anyone accused of a serious crime is entitled to legal representation.
And y'know.
A lawyer like Gorelick, for bucketloads of cash, sells her reputation and expertise to assist Jared and Ivanka in willfully refusing to observe either the spirit or the letter of the law.
Like, in a just universe, none of this would be happening. In a very far from just, but at least occasionally satisfying universe, not only would Gorelick's reputation disappear down the same toilet as those of Marc "Predisent" Kasowitz and Sheri "Empty Folder" Dillon, but she would get massively stiffed on her bills, such that she has to walk into the end-of-year partner meetings for 2017 and be told by the grim-faced executive board and that unless she manages to fix this seven-digit outstanding collectible that is more than 90 days due, she's going to have end up paying the firm back out of the anticipatory draws she'd taken WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T WE ASK FOR MORE THAN A $50,000 RETAINER.
A girl can only hope.
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:42 PM on June 12, 2017 [19 favorites]
So do you think the ACLU should have refused to represent the Skokie Neo-Nazis? Their beliefs are pretty abhorrent.
No, but neither do I think they're immune from political criticism for doing so. And that's what this is. Gorelick is seeking to remain in good standing as a liberal activist leader while consciously choosing clients that undermine the very foundation of that standing. You can't be both, and no one is saying she should be prohibited from representing them, but having her reputation remain the exact same as if she hadn't is not realistic or reasonable.
John Adams represented the British soldiers accused of the Boston Massacre. His reputation suffered at the time, and was later bolstered for having done so. Legal right to representation is not the same as blanket immunity from political consequence.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
No, but neither do I think they're immune from political criticism for doing so. And that's what this is. Gorelick is seeking to remain in good standing as a liberal activist leader while consciously choosing clients that undermine the very foundation of that standing. You can't be both, and no one is saying she should be prohibited from representing them, but having her reputation remain the exact same as if she hadn't is not realistic or reasonable.
John Adams represented the British soldiers accused of the Boston Massacre. His reputation suffered at the time, and was later bolstered for having done so. Legal right to representation is not the same as blanket immunity from political consequence.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
WSJ: Secret Service Has No Audio or Transcripts of Any Tapes Made in Trump White House: The U.S. Secret Service has no audio copies or transcripts of any tapes recorded within President Donald Trump’s White House, the agency said on Monday.
The agency’s response to a freedom of information request submitted by The Wall Street Journal doesn’t exclude the possibility that recordings could have been created by another entity.
The Secret Service handled recording systems within the White House for past presidents, including Richard Nixon and John F. Kennedy.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
The agency’s response to a freedom of information request submitted by The Wall Street Journal doesn’t exclude the possibility that recordings could have been created by another entity.
The Secret Service handled recording systems within the White House for past presidents, including Richard Nixon and John F. Kennedy.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
According to Twitter, Sessions is going to claim executive privilege for all conversations with POTUS before Comey's firing.
I feel like that won't go over well
posted by leotrotsky at 1:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I feel like that won't go over well
posted by leotrotsky at 1:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I represent people accused of (and guilty of sometimes) heinous crimes and I am constantly getting put down and concern trolled for it. People say 'it must be hard to represent people you know are guilty' or 'I suppose everyone is entitled to a defense'. Its a thing defense attorneys have to develop responses to. But it is not hard for me to do this job at all because I truly believe in defending people, helping people when they are down, and in finding the good in everyone.
I would NEVER represent Jared and Ivanka because they are awful and I WOULD NOT lift a pinky of my expertise, talent, and skill to hep them. I would laugh in their faces if they offered me 40 million dollars or whatever they are paying Ms. Gorelick.
I find her representation especially galling and hypocritical because she is also now bemoaning how mean and partisan people are being. That is part of her spin for Jared and Ivanka - she is using her status and liberal credentials to assist them in their public relations and legal defense. For that she is rightly shamed.
I think it is wrong for people to work patenting native plants in Tanzania on behalf of Monsanto. There is a lot of law out there to participate in without engaging in civilization ending advocacy.
posted by goneill at 1:45 PM on June 12, 2017 [68 favorites]
I would NEVER represent Jared and Ivanka because they are awful and I WOULD NOT lift a pinky of my expertise, talent, and skill to hep them. I would laugh in their faces if they offered me 40 million dollars or whatever they are paying Ms. Gorelick.
I find her representation especially galling and hypocritical because she is also now bemoaning how mean and partisan people are being. That is part of her spin for Jared and Ivanka - she is using her status and liberal credentials to assist them in their public relations and legal defense. For that she is rightly shamed.
I think it is wrong for people to work patenting native plants in Tanzania on behalf of Monsanto. There is a lot of law out there to participate in without engaging in civilization ending advocacy.
posted by goneill at 1:45 PM on June 12, 2017 [68 favorites]
Do you think it is appropriate or inappropriate for Republican politicians to body slam members of the media?
Are we seriously having a debate in this country about whether or not assault is acceptable behavior? This should be an easy one!
posted by diogenes at 1:46 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Are we seriously having a debate in this country about whether or not assault is acceptable behavior? This should be an easy one!
posted by diogenes at 1:46 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I would laugh in their faces if they offered me 40 million dollars or whatever they are paying Ms. Gorelick.
*Jack Benny voice* "I'm thinking it over!"
posted by Melismata at 1:47 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
*Jack Benny voice* "I'm thinking it over!"
posted by Melismata at 1:47 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
The agency’s response to a freedom of information request submitted by The Wall Street Journal doesn’t exclude the possibility that recordings could have been created by another entity.
The Secret Service handled recording systems within the White House for past presidents, including Richard Nixon and John F. Kennedy.
Normally that'd be it, but given that the fuckstick brigade doesn't know how anything works in the White House, we can't rule out Trump carrying a little Dale Cooper style cassette recorder. (There's no way he's got anything more up to date.)
posted by leotrotsky at 1:48 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Secret Service handled recording systems within the White House for past presidents, including Richard Nixon and John F. Kennedy.
Normally that'd be it, but given that the fuckstick brigade doesn't know how anything works in the White House, we can't rule out Trump carrying a little Dale Cooper style cassette recorder. (There's no way he's got anything more up to date.)
posted by leotrotsky at 1:48 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
The real shame is that poor, destitute, friendless Jared has no one else to turn to in his desperate quest to know if he is legally allowed to have an unofficial role in his father-in-law's White House while actively promoting his own business interests and enriching other members of his family. If not Jamie Gorelick, then who?
"Please help me!" he cries out, "I can't get any traction on this slope and now I'm tumbling into the abyss! Why didn't anyone build a threshold on this thing!?"
posted by Copronymus at 1:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
"Please help me!" he cries out, "I can't get any traction on this slope and now I'm tumbling into the abyss! Why didn't anyone build a threshold on this thing!?"
posted by Copronymus at 1:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions is asking Congressional leaders not to renew a current federal law that prevents the Department of Justice from spending money to interfere with state medical marijuana laws.
Fuck you, you racist Keebler elf. Weed has kept me off of opiates for over ten years' worth of chronic excruciating pain.
posted by angrycat at 1:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [99 favorites]
Fuck you, you racist Keebler elf. Weed has kept me off of opiates for over ten years' worth of chronic excruciating pain.
posted by angrycat at 1:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [99 favorites]
It's also that Trump chose a lawyer who will help him with ongoing obstruction of justice. There's no way he would pick someone who can turn him in when he asks, for instance, how can he shut down Mueller? By contrast someone like OJ Simpson was not likely to commit another murder while on trial.
posted by rainy at 1:49 PM on June 12, 2017
posted by rainy at 1:49 PM on June 12, 2017
No, but neither do I think they're immune from political criticism for doing so. And that's what this is. Gorelick is seeking to remain in good standing as a liberal activist leader while consciously choosing clients that undermine the very foundation of that standing. You can't be both, and no one is saying she should be prohibited from representing them, but having her reputation remain the exact same as if she hadn't is not realistic or reasonable.
Fair enough.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:50 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fair enough.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:50 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions is asking Congressional leaders not to renew a current federal law that prevents the Department of Justice from spending money to interfere with state medical marijuana laws.
Fuck you, you racist Keebler elf. Weed has kept me off of opiates for over ten years' worth of chronic excruciating pain.
It's nice to see the Damoclean sword of treason isn't keeping Jeffy from being a full bore retrograde fuckwad.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:52 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
Fuck you, you racist Keebler elf. Weed has kept me off of opiates for over ten years' worth of chronic excruciating pain.
It's nice to see the Damoclean sword of treason isn't keeping Jeffy from being a full bore retrograde fuckwad.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:52 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
The agency’s response to a freedom of information request submitted by The Wall Street Journal doesn’t exclude the possibility that recordings could have been created by another entity.
Well, exactly. I mean, I'm sure there are tapes of the Trump/Comey conversations...but I doubt Kislyak can be forced to turn them over.
posted by uosuaq at 1:57 PM on June 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Well, exactly. I mean, I'm sure there are tapes of the Trump/Comey conversations...but I doubt Kislyak can be forced to turn them over.
posted by uosuaq at 1:57 PM on June 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Newsweek: Clinton Watts, a senior fellow at the Center for Cyber and Homeland Security at The George Washington University, told the investigation that Russia worked to undermine the campaigns of both Republican and Democratic candidates who held less favorable views toward Russia, including Florida Sen. Marco Rubio.
Let's dispense with this notion that the President didn't know what he was doing yadda yadda
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:58 PM on June 12, 2017 [46 favorites]
Let's dispense with this notion that the President didn't know what he was doing yadda yadda
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:58 PM on June 12, 2017 [46 favorites]
The agency’s response to a freedom of information request submitted by The Wall Street Journal doesn’t exclude the possibility that recordings could have been created by another entity.
someone file a FOIA with the kgb
posted by entropicamericana at 2:00 PM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
someone file a FOIA with the kgb
posted by entropicamericana at 2:00 PM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Unmentioned in the article is the slight possibility that Gorelick having taken on Jared as a client could torpedo Robert Mueller's investigation, since they were working at the same firm until Mueller resigned to become special counsel.
I really don't understand how this is supposed to make a difference. Mueller was appointed first and never worked on any Trump-family stuff, right?
Is this how you torpedo any prosecution of yourself ever? You just hire someone from a place with connections to the prosecutor and then jump up and down and pitch a fit until the prosecutor is replaced? I mean if we're going from a place of "Nothing since the election has made any goddamn sense or required any logical or factual basis, anyway," I guess I can see it, but... seriously?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:07 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I really don't understand how this is supposed to make a difference. Mueller was appointed first and never worked on any Trump-family stuff, right?
Is this how you torpedo any prosecution of yourself ever? You just hire someone from a place with connections to the prosecutor and then jump up and down and pitch a fit until the prosecutor is replaced? I mean if we're going from a place of "Nothing since the election has made any goddamn sense or required any logical or factual basis, anyway," I guess I can see it, but... seriously?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:07 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Hill: Legislation introduced in the House on Monday would prevent President Trump from receiving federally subsidized flood insurance, amid warnings that the effects of climate change could cause parts of his Mar-a-Lago resort and other south Florida properties to be underwater in coming years.
The bill from Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) — titled the Prohibiting Aid for Recipients Ignoring Science (PARIS) Act — would ensure properties owned by a president or a president's family members can’t have access to subsidized insurance from the National Flood Insurance Program.
An analysis by Coastal Risk Consulting found that the Mar-a-Lago grounds in Palm Beach, Fla., could be under at least a foot of water for 210 days a year because of tidal flooding.
These comedy bills are a good balance of hilarious and vital to the public interest, keep it up
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:09 PM on June 12, 2017 [74 favorites]
The bill from Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) — titled the Prohibiting Aid for Recipients Ignoring Science (PARIS) Act — would ensure properties owned by a president or a president's family members can’t have access to subsidized insurance from the National Flood Insurance Program.
An analysis by Coastal Risk Consulting found that the Mar-a-Lago grounds in Palm Beach, Fla., could be under at least a foot of water for 210 days a year because of tidal flooding.
These comedy bills are a good balance of hilarious and vital to the public interest, keep it up
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:09 PM on June 12, 2017 [74 favorites]
PPP poll: Do you think it is appropriate or inappropriate for Republican politicians to body slam members of the media?
I wish they'd asked about Nazi-punching, for comparison's sake.
posted by jocelmeow at 2:14 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
I wish they'd asked about Nazi-punching, for comparison's sake.
posted by jocelmeow at 2:14 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
> So do you think the ACLU should have refused to represent the Skokie Neo-Nazis? Their beliefs are pretty abhorrent.
The ACLU had a reason to represent the Skokie nazis; they argued that defending them in court defended the broader practice of free speech.
That's a fundamentally liberal argument, and one that I disagree with. But it's an argument. There is no coherent argument — aside from the cod-neoliberal argument that any action carried out through market exchange at market rates is thereby justified — for Gorelick representing the little Trumps.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:17 PM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
The ACLU had a reason to represent the Skokie nazis; they argued that defending them in court defended the broader practice of free speech.
That's a fundamentally liberal argument, and one that I disagree with. But it's an argument. There is no coherent argument — aside from the cod-neoliberal argument that any action carried out through market exchange at market rates is thereby justified — for Gorelick representing the little Trumps.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:17 PM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
The Secret Service handled recording systems within the White House for past presidents, including Richard Nixon and John F. Kennedy.
Trump values personal loyalty above all else. No way would he ever give anyone within the government a task that sensitive. If he did tape his calls or bug the White House he used one of his long-time personal security guys, someone who's proven he can keep secrets.
posted by scalefree at 2:22 PM on June 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
Trump values personal loyalty above all else. No way would he ever give anyone within the government a task that sensitive. If he did tape his calls or bug the White House he used one of his long-time personal security guys, someone who's proven he can keep secrets.
posted by scalefree at 2:22 PM on June 12, 2017 [22 favorites]
Well, okay, the real argument is "naked self-interest." And you know what? Naked self-interest is, all else being equal, a very strong argument.
So we have to make sure that all else isn't equal.
The way we do that, the way we show the proper respect for the argument's strength, is by doing whatever we can to ruin the career of the person making the argument, thereby making it no longer in their self-interest. Because, you see, it's in our collective self-interest to ensure that top-flight lawyers can't work with Trumps without having their careers wrecked.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:25 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
So we have to make sure that all else isn't equal.
The way we do that, the way we show the proper respect for the argument's strength, is by doing whatever we can to ruin the career of the person making the argument, thereby making it no longer in their self-interest. Because, you see, it's in our collective self-interest to ensure that top-flight lawyers can't work with Trumps without having their careers wrecked.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:25 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I watched that "cabinet meeting" as long as I could stomach, and I'd encourage everyone else to do the same. This is the kind of praise he expects. The whole thing felt like a reality TV moment - it was a b-movie interpretation of what cabinet meetings are like, full of fake formality.
I think it was a direct response to McCain's statement that American leadership abroad was "Better under Obama". It seemed like half the praises were focused on American leadership abroad and trying to contradict McCain. I wonder who wrote their lines.
posted by heathkit at 2:33 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think it was a direct response to McCain's statement that American leadership abroad was "Better under Obama". It seemed like half the praises were focused on American leadership abroad and trying to contradict McCain. I wonder who wrote their lines.
posted by heathkit at 2:33 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
it was a b-movie interpretation of what cabinet meetings are like, full of fake formality.
You know, I hope we get through four years of nothing signfiicant or damaging happening to the country like the last 5 months. Yes, terrible stuff has happened and US interests are declining/being ignored, but there has not been a catastrophe. No Hurricanes. No ebola. Thank Tebow no Lehman Brothers. Not even a mass shooting really. But the odds of that continuing too much longer are...not great. At some point the potemkin Trump administration is going to face an actual crisis that demands an actual response...and what the fuck are these toadstools going to do then?
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:37 PM on June 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
You know, I hope we get through four years of nothing signfiicant or damaging happening to the country like the last 5 months. Yes, terrible stuff has happened and US interests are declining/being ignored, but there has not been a catastrophe. No Hurricanes. No ebola. Thank Tebow no Lehman Brothers. Not even a mass shooting really. But the odds of that continuing too much longer are...not great. At some point the potemkin Trump administration is going to face an actual crisis that demands an actual response...and what the fuck are these toadstools going to do then?
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:37 PM on June 12, 2017 [12 favorites]
Let's not forget the many terrible things that would have happened if not for the courts intervening. Or the Senate Democrats having the prospect of filibustering.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:39 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:39 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Now you've done it.
posted by christopherious at 2:41 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by christopherious at 2:41 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
ACLU defended the first amendment rights of neo-nazis in Skokie.
The ACLU doesn't make a habit of repeating the vilest anti-Jewish and anti-black slurs they can find in the interest of convincing juries that Nazis maybe have a point, after all, and maybe their speech was basically correct. This is a not parallel to the practices of defense attorneys in a terrifying and horrifying number of rape trials and other similar cases.
It should be the same thing, and it is a crying shame that it is not the same thing.
I am a fan of the first amendment, and I think that the eagerness not just of the right but of some of the the left, recently, to make "free speech" into some kind of alt-right signifier is awful. Free speech is a great thing. And that's why you don't defend Nazis on first amendment grounds by claiming they didn't say anything false or wrong! You defend them because they are permitted to say false and wrong things in many contexts under the laws of this nation. Again: not parallel to those lawyers who defame women and use vile and false beliefs about them to undermine their credibility.
It is good for a lawyer to defend a bad person on grounds of fact and law and burden of proof and constitutional rights. it is not good for a lawyer to defend a bad person by exhorting the public to hate the same people their client hates.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:43 PM on June 12, 2017 [42 favorites]
The ACLU doesn't make a habit of repeating the vilest anti-Jewish and anti-black slurs they can find in the interest of convincing juries that Nazis maybe have a point, after all, and maybe their speech was basically correct. This is a not parallel to the practices of defense attorneys in a terrifying and horrifying number of rape trials and other similar cases.
It should be the same thing, and it is a crying shame that it is not the same thing.
I am a fan of the first amendment, and I think that the eagerness not just of the right but of some of the the left, recently, to make "free speech" into some kind of alt-right signifier is awful. Free speech is a great thing. And that's why you don't defend Nazis on first amendment grounds by claiming they didn't say anything false or wrong! You defend them because they are permitted to say false and wrong things in many contexts under the laws of this nation. Again: not parallel to those lawyers who defame women and use vile and false beliefs about them to undermine their credibility.
It is good for a lawyer to defend a bad person on grounds of fact and law and burden of proof and constitutional rights. it is not good for a lawyer to defend a bad person by exhorting the public to hate the same people their client hates.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:43 PM on June 12, 2017 [42 favorites]
The whole thing felt like a reality TV moment
The whole presidency, the whole election. This is our gladiatorial combat. 21st century bloodsport, and it's taken over the asylum.
You know, I hope we get through four years of nothing signfiicant or damaging happening to the country like the last 5 months. Yes, terrible stuff has happened and US interests are declining/being ignored, but there has not been a catastrophe. No Hurricanes. No ebola. Thank Tebow no Lehman Brothers. Not even a mass shooting really. But the odds of that continuing too much longer are...not great. At some point the potemkin Trump administration is going to face an actual crisis that demands an actual response...and what the fuck are these toadstools going to do then?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:37 AM on June 13 [2 favorites +] [!]
Katrina. :)
But on the other foot, opioid epidemic, water protectors, water poisoning in Flint and everywhere else, non-white gay AIDS epidemic, income gap... Why isn't inaction on these things enough to shut him down?
posted by saysthis at 2:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
The whole presidency, the whole election. This is our gladiatorial combat. 21st century bloodsport, and it's taken over the asylum.
You know, I hope we get through four years of nothing signfiicant or damaging happening to the country like the last 5 months. Yes, terrible stuff has happened and US interests are declining/being ignored, but there has not been a catastrophe. No Hurricanes. No ebola. Thank Tebow no Lehman Brothers. Not even a mass shooting really. But the odds of that continuing too much longer are...not great. At some point the potemkin Trump administration is going to face an actual crisis that demands an actual response...and what the fuck are these toadstools going to do then?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:37 AM on June 13 [2 favorites +] [!]
Katrina. :)
But on the other foot, opioid epidemic, water protectors, water poisoning in Flint and everywhere else, non-white gay AIDS epidemic, income gap... Why isn't inaction on these things enough to shut him down?
posted by saysthis at 2:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I found this an interesting read: Is Sessions About to Commit Perjury. Its pretty detailed.
posted by H. Roark at 2:48 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by H. Roark at 2:48 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
who's coming
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thanks, leotrotsky, T. D. Strange, East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94, You Can't Tip a Buick, goneill, queenofbithynia, and anyone else I missed for your contributions to this discussion re: Jamie Gorelick.
While I tend to agree with YCTaB, goneill, queenofbithynia, and T. D. Strange in my position about whether social consequences should follow from whom one chooses to represent, it was valuable for me to hear some other perspectives in our community on this issue. I appreciate y'alls thoughtfulness and cognitive labor :).
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 2:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
While I tend to agree with YCTaB, goneill, queenofbithynia, and T. D. Strange in my position about whether social consequences should follow from whom one chooses to represent, it was valuable for me to hear some other perspectives in our community on this issue. I appreciate y'alls thoughtfulness and cognitive labor :).
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 2:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I found this an interesting read: Is Sessions About to Commit Perjury. Its pretty detailed.
I was hoping this was going to be one of those single purpose websites which would simply say YES and nothing else.
posted by dng at 2:52 PM on June 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
I was hoping this was going to be one of those single purpose websites which would simply say YES and nothing else.
posted by dng at 2:52 PM on June 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
The Public Theater has just put out a statement in response to the BS kerfuffle about its production of Julius Caesar:
A NOTE ABOUT JULIUS CAESAR AT THE DELACORTEposted by prefpara at 2:53 PM on June 12, 2017 [71 favorites]
The Public Theater stands completely behind our production of Julius Caesar. We understand and respect the right of our sponsors and supporters to allocate their funding in line with their own values. We recognize that our interpretation of the play has provoked heated discussion; audiences, sponsors and supporters have expressed varying viewpoints and opinions.
Such discussion is exactly the goal of our civically-engaged theater; this discourse is the basis of a healthy democracy. Our production of Julius Caesar in no way advocates violence towards anyone. Shakespeare's play, and our production, make the opposite point: those who attempt to defend democracy by undemocratic means pay a terrible price and destroy the very thing they are fighting to save. For over 400 years, Shakespeare’s play has told this story and we are proud to be telling it again in Central Park.
#WeAreOnePublic
I also acknowledge that most of the lawyers representing the constellation of fuckers surrounding Trump are themselves fuckers and will be selected on the specific basis that they are fuckers. I believe that, in theory, an honest and decent person could represent them in an ethical manner on the basis that they are entitled to competent representation, especially in the case of criminal defense.
That person would probably be fired though.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:53 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
That person would probably be fired though.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:53 PM on June 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
@davidmackau
Ivanka on Fox News: "There's a level of viciousness I wasn't expecting" [in DC]
@ChloeAngyal Retweeted David Mack
The Taylor Swift playbook.
- One of the things white womanhood affords you, especially if you're pretty and rich, is a bottomless, unending victimhood narrative.
- It affords you the option of putting on and taking off vulnerability when it suits, knowing people will always defend you when you need it.
- And it means that no matter what you've done wrong, even if you're someone people "love to hate," people will love and feel sorry for you.
- No matter how rich, how powerful, how desirable, how vicious you are, you are always the most vulnerable, hardest-done-by one in the room.
- It is a playbook that gets marginalized people killed and that keeps white women's hands spotlessly clean. It has worked this way for years.
posted by chris24 at 2:59 PM on June 12, 2017 [51 favorites]
Ivanka on Fox News: "There's a level of viciousness I wasn't expecting" [in DC]
@ChloeAngyal Retweeted David Mack
The Taylor Swift playbook.
- One of the things white womanhood affords you, especially if you're pretty and rich, is a bottomless, unending victimhood narrative.
- It affords you the option of putting on and taking off vulnerability when it suits, knowing people will always defend you when you need it.
- And it means that no matter what you've done wrong, even if you're someone people "love to hate," people will love and feel sorry for you.
- No matter how rich, how powerful, how desirable, how vicious you are, you are always the most vulnerable, hardest-done-by one in the room.
- It is a playbook that gets marginalized people killed and that keeps white women's hands spotlessly clean. It has worked this way for years.
posted by chris24 at 2:59 PM on June 12, 2017 [51 favorites]
Do not fret, noted Trump supporter Dennis Rodman is off to North Korea for unspecified reasons
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:00 PM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:00 PM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
who's coming
"Saviour of Humanity"? Looks like Trump's pandering in Hindi really payed off.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:01 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Among Hindu Nationalists, proposing that all Muslims be banned probably didn't hurt...
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:02 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:02 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
someone file a FOIA with the kgb
Or in this case, file a Сид.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:03 PM on June 12, 2017
Or in this case, file a Сид.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:03 PM on June 12, 2017
Alex Jones is now demanding that NBC not air his interview with Megan Kelley. He's claiming that they are using selective editing to make him look bad.
This world is so strange right now.
edit: deceptive not selective editing though they're similar I guess.
posted by Jalliah at 3:04 PM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
This world is so strange right now.
edit: deceptive not selective editing though they're similar I guess.
posted by Jalliah at 3:04 PM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
NBC should agree to release the unedited video, which no doubt depicts Mr Jones as a modern-day Gene Kelly
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:06 PM on June 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:06 PM on June 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
Wait, am I in agreement with Alex Jones?
What is his take on whether they should have interviewed his pustulant ass in the first place?
posted by Artw at 3:12 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
What is his take on whether they should have interviewed his pustulant ass in the first place?
posted by Artw at 3:12 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
NBC should agree to release the unedited video, which no doubt depicts Mr Jones as a modern-day Gene Kelly
"Do I attract you. Do I repulse you with my crazy smile?"
posted by Talez at 3:15 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Do I attract you. Do I repulse you with my crazy smile?"
posted by Talez at 3:15 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is "Ed Miliband" the Commonwealth spelling for "Joe Biden"?
Ed Miliband is not even cool by English standards.
posted by srboisvert at 3:27 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ed Miliband is not even cool by English standards.
posted by srboisvert at 3:27 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
So do you think the ACLU should have refused to represent the Skokie Neo-Nazis? Their beliefs are pretty abhorrent.
Yes, but not on the basis of their beliefs. Rather, they should have refused to represent them because their act - marching in force through a Chicago suburb known for having a significant Jewish population -
was not just speech, but an act of intimidation, if not outright terror. I tend to find the hagiographic view this case is routinely presented to be distasteful, particularly because some of the language used to describe the argument, such as the need to defend "unpopular speech", has made it harder to actually combat hate speech.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:37 PM on June 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
Yes, but not on the basis of their beliefs. Rather, they should have refused to represent them because their act - marching in force through a Chicago suburb known for having a significant Jewish population -
was not just speech, but an act of intimidation, if not outright terror. I tend to find the hagiographic view this case is routinely presented to be distasteful, particularly because some of the language used to describe the argument, such as the need to defend "unpopular speech", has made it harder to actually combat hate speech.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:37 PM on June 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
The Hill: Senators from both parties have struck a deal on a bill that will restrict President Trump’s ability to lift sanctions on Russia without congressional review.
Maybe someone with more time can make a bill-title acronym out of T.R.A.I.N.I.N.G.W.H.E.E.L.S.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:48 PM on June 12, 2017 [40 favorites]
Maybe someone with more time can make a bill-title acronym out of T.R.A.I.N.I.N.G.W.H.E.E.L.S.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:48 PM on June 12, 2017 [40 favorites]
Krugman: They Don’t Need No Information
To be sure, Republicans gave up evidence-based policymaking a long time ago. Back when Paul Ryan was pretending to be a serious policy wonk, he always started from the answer, then invented some assumptions and magic asterisks to justify that answer. Heritage has been a hack operation for many years.
But they used to at least pretend; people like Ryan weren’t actual policy experts, but they played them on TV, and gullible centrists were happy to help them maintain that pretense. Now they’re not even bothering to fake it.
And it’s hard to say with any assurance that they’ll pay a political price. After all, Obamacare was in fact the product of hard thinking — and it did a tremendous amount of good in places like, say, West Virginia, where Medicaid expansion (mainly) cut the number of uninsured by half. And in reward for this achievement, the good people of WV went Trump by 40 points.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:50 PM on June 12, 2017 [36 favorites]
To be sure, Republicans gave up evidence-based policymaking a long time ago. Back when Paul Ryan was pretending to be a serious policy wonk, he always started from the answer, then invented some assumptions and magic asterisks to justify that answer. Heritage has been a hack operation for many years.
But they used to at least pretend; people like Ryan weren’t actual policy experts, but they played them on TV, and gullible centrists were happy to help them maintain that pretense. Now they’re not even bothering to fake it.
And it’s hard to say with any assurance that they’ll pay a political price. After all, Obamacare was in fact the product of hard thinking — and it did a tremendous amount of good in places like, say, West Virginia, where Medicaid expansion (mainly) cut the number of uninsured by half. And in reward for this achievement, the good people of WV went Trump by 40 points.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:50 PM on June 12, 2017 [36 favorites]
Chris Ruddy, Trump's buddy, claims on PBS that Trump is "considering" firing Mueller.
Can we bait Trump into doing it? Short of an actual piss tape, surely that, right?
posted by zachlipton at 3:55 PM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Can we bait Trump into doing it? Short of an actual piss tape, surely that, right?
posted by zachlipton at 3:55 PM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
Can we bait Trump into doing it? Short of an actual piss tape, surely that, right?
Sadly, I don't think so.
posted by Talez at 4:01 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sadly, I don't think so.
posted by Talez at 4:01 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's probably the right move for him. Hard to see how even that moves the needle on the Republican side whatsoever. What would even be the remedy if he did? Congress passing a renewal of the Independent Counsel's office? How would that be any more likely than impeachment? He got away with Comey, Republicans would let him get away with Mueller.
There's not a plausible narrative where Republicans do anything in response if he did.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:01 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
There's not a plausible narrative where Republicans do anything in response if he did.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:01 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Don't get me wrong, I think that Trump will absolutely do it eventually. I just think that nobody in a position to do anything about it is going to actually do anything about it.
posted by Talez at 4:01 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 4:01 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Update, in case anyone's curious: There are still 61 U.S. Attorney slots waiting for Trump's nominations, out of a total 94 districts. Trump has now nominated his first 7 nominees to begin filling those vacancies.
iirc, Trump _has_ been appointing lots of Republican-aligned federal judges, which is making the GOP happy.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:03 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
iirc, Trump _has_ been appointing lots of Republican-aligned federal judges, which is making the GOP happy.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:03 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
So long as Trump continues to have enough digits to work a pen and the sensibility to keep those bills signed as they appear on his desk, Republicans are content for the executive to loot whatever they want so long as Congress can actually rule the United States.
posted by Talez at 4:03 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 4:03 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Can we bait Trump into doing it? Short of an actual piss tape, surely that, right?
Be careful what you wish for. I'd bet good money that the Republicans would refuse to do anything about it, other than having him replaced with a toady who would wrap the investigation up with no significant findings. McCain might frown grievously for a few minutes with "concern" before concluding that now things are even, as the Clinton investigation is closed.
posted by Candleman at 4:03 PM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Be careful what you wish for. I'd bet good money that the Republicans would refuse to do anything about it, other than having him replaced with a toady who would wrap the investigation up with no significant findings. McCain might frown grievously for a few minutes with "concern" before concluding that now things are even, as the Clinton investigation is closed.
posted by Candleman at 4:03 PM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'm curious whether the nomination process would be going faster if Trump had nominated more people, or whether the Democrats really are the limiting factor. I'm guessing the former, since the Senate seems to have been taking a lot of time off.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:05 PM on June 12, 2017
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:05 PM on June 12, 2017
I've been seeing the beginnings of an anti-Mueller campaign by the GOP. I think the intention is to prepare the public for his firing. Unlike you I'm not eager for this to happen because I'm not 100% positive that the criminal investigation that has started will continue. With the way DJT gets full backing from the GOP, any investigation into this administration might just be allowed to die.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:06 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:06 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Let's say the tape demonstrates beyond any question that Trump hired prostitutes in Russia to perform that particular act. Where does that get us?
It gets us Mike Pence going on Meet The Press to say it's perfectly normal and healthy, so that's something
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:07 PM on June 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
It gets us Mike Pence going on Meet The Press to say it's perfectly normal and healthy, so that's something
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:07 PM on June 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
Doesn't Rosenstein have to fire Mueller? Trump would have to fire Rosenstein and replace him with someone willing to fire Mueller, yes? It amounts to the same thing as I've said previously but the optics are even worse and could result in a new Saturday Night Massacre.
posted by Justinian at 4:08 PM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:08 PM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
The content of the kompromat may or may not be damaging. The proven existence of the kompromat, with the implication that US government officials allowed themselves to be blackmailed and behaved according to Putin's orders, might be hugely damaging.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:14 PM on June 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:14 PM on June 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
What's the worst that would realistically happen if a piss tape went public?
At this point I assume Delta Airlines and Bank of America would pull their advertising from any news outlets that actually covered such an offensive story. Piss being used for political purposes. Can you imagine.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:14 PM on June 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
At this point I assume Delta Airlines and Bank of America would pull their advertising from any news outlets that actually covered such an offensive story. Piss being used for political purposes. Can you imagine.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:14 PM on June 12, 2017 [30 favorites]
I think the only way that Trump is going to get what he deserves is by allowing him to carry on as he has been. It will take time and will age all of us due to increased anxiety and stress. We just have to hang on until his base cottons on to his useless, empty rhetoric. Even retaking the House in 2018 is not going to get rid of him although it might keep him busy and hamper his ability to carry out his agenda.
We need him to have more great ideas like today's tongue bathing by his cabinet. Insane moments like that are going to make it harder to defend him. Also I imagine career politicians even on the Right are going to get tired of his shenanigans.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
We need him to have more great ideas like today's tongue bathing by his cabinet. Insane moments like that are going to make it harder to defend him. Also I imagine career politicians even on the Right are going to get tired of his shenanigans.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Mother and I have been known to engage in water sports from time to time, and I don't mean skiing!"
posted by leotrotsky at 4:25 PM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 4:25 PM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
For a look at how this might all go down if we get into firings and impeachment for those of us not in the government, take a look at the current coverage of politics in Brazil on your media source of preference.
They're on their second impeachment in a year, and I know the US is not Brazil, but remember, for all the craziness in Washington D.C. right now, keep in mind that there are other democracies where this has happened before, and you can definitely find parallels in media tenor, cover-ups, and political mud-slinging.
posted by saysthis at 4:27 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
They're on their second impeachment in a year, and I know the US is not Brazil, but remember, for all the craziness in Washington D.C. right now, keep in mind that there are other democracies where this has happened before, and you can definitely find parallels in media tenor, cover-ups, and political mud-slinging.
posted by saysthis at 4:27 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is this how you torpedo any prosecution of yourself ever? You just hire someone from a place with connections to the prosecutor and then jump up and down and pitch a fit until the prosecutor is replaced?
This actually can be a legal strategy, at least in civil litigation. (It's unusual from criminal cases to bring in prosecutors from a private law firm, outside of special prosecutors or highly specialized situations.)
In my divorce, I accidentally blocked my ex from hiring the nastiest, most vicious (and expensive) divorce attorney in town by getting a one-hour consult with a different partner in that firm. I had no idea until her father cursed me for my "maneuver." Were I inclined to game playing, I could have paid for one-hour consults with the top 6 divorce firms in Portland, which is small enough where that would have forced her down the ladder into less highly reputed lawyers.
posted by msalt at 4:27 PM on June 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
This actually can be a legal strategy, at least in civil litigation. (It's unusual from criminal cases to bring in prosecutors from a private law firm, outside of special prosecutors or highly specialized situations.)
In my divorce, I accidentally blocked my ex from hiring the nastiest, most vicious (and expensive) divorce attorney in town by getting a one-hour consult with a different partner in that firm. I had no idea until her father cursed me for my "maneuver." Were I inclined to game playing, I could have paid for one-hour consults with the top 6 divorce firms in Portland, which is small enough where that would have forced her down the ladder into less highly reputed lawyers.
posted by msalt at 4:27 PM on June 12, 2017 [20 favorites]
First entry I see on twitter: Far Right Militia blog calls Mueller a "Moslem-lover."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:28 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:28 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Alex Jones is now demanding that NBC not air his interview with Megan Kelley. He's claiming that they are using selective editing to make him look bad.
I'm sure they'll be happy to provide an unedited version.
Megyn Kelly is pulling a Buckley Birch Society move here, btw. Positioning as the sane opposition.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:30 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm sure they'll be happy to provide an unedited version.
Megyn Kelly is pulling a Buckley Birch Society move here, btw. Positioning as the sane opposition.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:30 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump or Congress can still block Robert Mueller. I know. I wrote the rules.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:30 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:30 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is this how you torpedo any prosecution of yourself ever? You just hire someone from a place with connections to the prosecutor and then jump up and down and pitch a fit until the prosecutor is replaced?
This actually can be a legal strategy, at least in civil litigation...
To be clear, this is an issue when there are preexisting conflicts. In general, you can't sort of grandfather in a conflict by taking on client A and then, later, having a different partner in the same firm take on conflicting client B. And if Muller has stepped away from his firm, that makes it all even thinner.
posted by prefpara at 4:40 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
This actually can be a legal strategy, at least in civil litigation...
To be clear, this is an issue when there are preexisting conflicts. In general, you can't sort of grandfather in a conflict by taking on client A and then, later, having a different partner in the same firm take on conflicting client B. And if Muller has stepped away from his firm, that makes it all even thinner.
posted by prefpara at 4:40 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
TPM's Josh Marshall: This is Just the Beginning
ts" like Michael Flynn and Carter Page.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:59 PM on June 12, 2017 [55 favorites]
However that may be, I’m quite confident that Jeff Sessions schedule, completely crazy stuff like Jared Kushner trying to access Russia’s secure communication technology to open a backchannel to Russia and more are only going to be pieces of the puzzle which were put in place late or relatively late in the story. If it is true as I suspect that Jared Kushner was during the transition meeting with state-backed Russian bankers trying to secure an infusion of cash to bail out the family business, I scarcely believe that the idea began with him or was first broached so late in the game.Josh thinks that all this shadiness with Jared Kushner, Jefferson Sessions and all the rest started well before the official transition. I am inclined to agree, especially since Sessions has long standing connections to Bannon and Manafort and was responsible for that horrible national security advisory campaign team, full of Russian intelligence "asse
Something like that could only have happened in an on-going channel of communication and cultivated relationships. Perhaps it was merely unconventional or inappropriate up to that point, rather than crossing the brightest of red lines. But it is quite clear that the mix of communications involving Mike Flynn, Jared Kushner, Jeff Sessions and others didn’t just stand up in November and December. We seem to be catching this story halfway or more through.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:59 PM on June 12, 2017 [55 favorites]
Adam Schiff @RepAdamSchiff (D-CA)
If President fired Bob Mueller, Congress would immediately re-establish independent counsel and appoint Bob Mueller. Don't waste our time.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:59 PM on June 12, 2017 [74 favorites]
If President fired Bob Mueller, Congress would immediately re-establish independent counsel and appoint Bob Mueller. Don't waste our time.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:59 PM on June 12, 2017 [74 favorites]
So, is this it, then? We're stuck with Trump & the Republicans and there's nothing we can do about it? Unless he dies or someone attacks us, this is it, strap in?
posted by yoga at 5:00 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by yoga at 5:00 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Or if the strap-in tape surfaces.
posted by ian1977 at 5:03 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 5:03 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Preview of tomorrow's testimony:
Franken (D) Minn.: So, Secretary Sessions, are you comfortable?
Sessions (Moonbat over Miami): I never spoke with Russians. They didn't tell me they were Russians. How was I supposed to know what embassy I was at? I just went there because Russians are friendly. That was a trick question!
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:07 PM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Franken (D) Minn.: So, Secretary Sessions, are you comfortable?
Sessions (Moonbat over Miami): I never spoke with Russians. They didn't tell me they were Russians. How was I supposed to know what embassy I was at? I just went there because Russians are friendly. That was a trick question!
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:07 PM on June 12, 2017 [17 favorites]
Sessions B: Silento: Watch Me Whip, Watch Me Nay Nay.
posted by effluvia at 5:18 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by effluvia at 5:18 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
nothing we can do about it?
There's a lot we can do about it. March. Call your members of Congress. Show up at town halls and "indivisible" meetings. Donate... to CREW, to the ACLU, to SwingLeft, to ProPublica and Mother Jones, to the candidate of your choice. Write letters to the editor. Join me in the comments-section wars. Pressure advertisers with the help of Sleeping Giants and Media Matters. Talk to your friends and neighbors. Volunteer to make GOTV calls for the Osseff campaign.
Anyone who can't think of anything to do, memail me, and I will assign you tasks. :-)
This stuff REALLY matters right now. Democracy: use it or lose it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [55 favorites]
There's a lot we can do about it. March. Call your members of Congress. Show up at town halls and "indivisible" meetings. Donate... to CREW, to the ACLU, to SwingLeft, to ProPublica and Mother Jones, to the candidate of your choice. Write letters to the editor. Join me in the comments-section wars. Pressure advertisers with the help of Sleeping Giants and Media Matters. Talk to your friends and neighbors. Volunteer to make GOTV calls for the Osseff campaign.
Anyone who can't think of anything to do, memail me, and I will assign you tasks. :-)
This stuff REALLY matters right now. Democracy: use it or lose it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [55 favorites]
Adam Schiff @RepAdamSchiff (D-CA)
If President fired Bob Mueller, Congress would immediately re-establish independent counsel and appoint Bob Mueller. Don't waste our time.
I'm seeing the claim that it'd be unlike Schiff to say something this bold unless he was certain that they'd have the necessary GOP support for it. Would anybody more familiar with Schiff's character care to weigh in?
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:23 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
If President fired Bob Mueller, Congress would immediately re-establish independent counsel and appoint Bob Mueller. Don't waste our time.
I'm seeing the claim that it'd be unlike Schiff to say something this bold unless he was certain that they'd have the necessary GOP support for it. Would anybody more familiar with Schiff's character care to weigh in?
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:23 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm subscribing to the "don't stop trying" school of resistance. Hope that constant pressure begins to have an effect. Midterms will come around, and then the general election in 2020. Hope that the republican agenda is hobbled by all of the scandals and investigations, and that either a republican or two step up and say "enough" or the tide turns at the polls.
Don't give up hope.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:25 PM on June 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
Don't give up hope.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:25 PM on June 12, 2017 [23 favorites]
I, too, would like to know the answer because it's looking very likely that DJT will fire Mueller and if Shiff cannot deliver then that's a black eye for him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:28 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:28 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
In my divorce, I accidentally blocked my ex from hiring the nastiest, most vicious (and expensive) divorce attorney in town by getting a one-hour consult with a different partner in that firm. I had no idea until her father cursed me for my "maneuver." Were I inclined to game playing, I could have paid for one-hour consults with the top 6 divorce firms in Portland, which is small enough where that would have forced her down the ladder into less highly reputed lawyers.
Hey, Tony Soprano did that on purpose.
posted by box at 5:28 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Hey, Tony Soprano did that on purpose.
posted by box at 5:28 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Finding out exactly what happened is the important part. That leading to an impeachment is desirable but if it doesn't we can deal with that later. Keeping the pressure on so that very little gets done and everything gets exposed about Trump and his group is the most important part.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:33 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:33 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Twitter thread by University of New Hampshire professor Seth Abramson on who can fire Muller and what Muller might do if fired
posted by shothotbot at 5:37 PM on June 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by shothotbot at 5:37 PM on June 12, 2017 [16 favorites]
I, too, would like to know the answer because it's looking very likely that DJT will fire Mueller and if Shiff cannot deliver then that's a black eye for him.
Why is it looking likely? Because one pal of Trump's says he's thinking about it? People have at various times said he's "about" to fire Bannon, Priebus, Spicey, and probably others I'm forgetting.
He thought it would be a smart idea to fire Comey and there wouldn't be any backlash or controversy, and look how great that turned out for him. If he is so abysmally fucking dumb or malleable to pull that again, I don't think he'll enjoy the results. His popularity and trust numbers are already in the pits.
What I'm looking forward to is how he reacts to the Senate -- including his GOP bootlickers -- telling him he can't get rid of sanctions.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:43 PM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
Why is it looking likely? Because one pal of Trump's says he's thinking about it? People have at various times said he's "about" to fire Bannon, Priebus, Spicey, and probably others I'm forgetting.
He thought it would be a smart idea to fire Comey and there wouldn't be any backlash or controversy, and look how great that turned out for him. If he is so abysmally fucking dumb or malleable to pull that again, I don't think he'll enjoy the results. His popularity and trust numbers are already in the pits.
What I'm looking forward to is how he reacts to the Senate -- including his GOP bootlickers -- telling him he can't get rid of sanctions.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:43 PM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
iirc, Trump _has_ been appointing lots of Republican-aligned federal judges, which is making the GOP happy.
There's a lot of slots to be filled (104 in District Courts!) but not many put forward so far, 22 including Gorsuch. List of federal judges appointed by Donald Trump from Wikipedia.
posted by scalefree at 5:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's a lot of slots to be filled (104 in District Courts!) but not many put forward so far, 22 including Gorsuch. List of federal judges appointed by Donald Trump from Wikipedia.
posted by scalefree at 5:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
DJT will fire Mueller and if Shiff cannot deliver then that's a black eye for him.
If Schiff can't deliver Independent Counsel legislation in the event that the President fires Mueller, we've (and he's) got bigger problems.
posted by rhizome at 5:47 PM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
If Schiff can't deliver Independent Counsel legislation in the event that the President fires Mueller, we've (and he's) got bigger problems.
posted by rhizome at 5:47 PM on June 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm seeing the claim that it'd be unlike Schiff to say something this bold unless he was certain that they'd have the necessary GOP support for it.
I highly doubt Schiff has any leverage over Mitch McConnell whatsoever, and reestablishing the IC would require a law, and probably a veto override. It's nice to see Schiff talk tough, but backing that up requires total Republican buy in as much as impeachment would.
All of these are *CRAZY* scenarios, but my bet is against Republicans ever holding Trump up to scrutiny until we have actual evidence that they will, ever. We don't. At all. We have at this point years of evidence directly contrary.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I highly doubt Schiff has any leverage over Mitch McConnell whatsoever, and reestablishing the IC would require a law, and probably a veto override. It's nice to see Schiff talk tough, but backing that up requires total Republican buy in as much as impeachment would.
All of these are *CRAZY* scenarios, but my bet is against Republicans ever holding Trump up to scrutiny until we have actual evidence that they will, ever. We don't. At all. We have at this point years of evidence directly contrary.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Unless he dies or someone attacks us, this is it, strap in?
As Comey pointed out, we have been attacked by the Russians, not militarily, just in cyber space. But the attack was against our core democratic institution: our election.
posted by Mental Wimp at 5:52 PM on June 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
As Comey pointed out, we have been attacked by the Russians, not militarily, just in cyber space. But the attack was against our core democratic institution: our election.
posted by Mental Wimp at 5:52 PM on June 12, 2017 [24 favorites]
@ Jim Acosta Source close to Trump says the president "is being advised by many people" NOT to fire special prosecutor Robert Mueller.
Looking pretty likely to me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:54 PM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
Looking pretty likely to me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:54 PM on June 12, 2017 [28 favorites]
I pray many people are also advising him not to do it personally, himself, using Twitter as the vehicle of communication to "fire" him while also explaining exactly Mueller would not have found out had he completed his investigation, because Mueller doesn't even know the full extent of what he totally did not do.
using the words "you can't" and "not legal" and "they won't let you" and "Barack Obama would have gone through proper channels." and "Reince will cry."
but mostly I hope they use the words "you actually can't." that ought to get him.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:02 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
using the words "you can't" and "not legal" and "they won't let you" and "Barack Obama would have gone through proper channels." and "Reince will cry."
but mostly I hope they use the words "you actually can't." that ought to get him.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:02 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Guys, I'm sorry to take this back, but can someone eli5 this Mueller sitch? Mueller was hired only 3 weeks ago, by Rosenstein, who seems a little suspect to me anyway based on the Comey firing rec letter.
What possible justification could Trump give for firing him in less than 3 weeks? How could he soon that? And wouldn't he be just be replaced? Doesn't Trump know that? It's he hoping this is like a slot machine and eventually Rosenstein will hire someone Trump can buy/intimidate?
Thanks in advance. Feel free to link to an earlier explanation if I missed it.
posted by greermahoney at 6:18 PM on June 12, 2017
What possible justification could Trump give for firing him in less than 3 weeks? How could he soon that? And wouldn't he be just be replaced? Doesn't Trump know that? It's he hoping this is like a slot machine and eventually Rosenstein will hire someone Trump can buy/intimidate?
Thanks in advance. Feel free to link to an earlier explanation if I missed it.
posted by greermahoney at 6:18 PM on June 12, 2017
There are many, many, many things I would like to say about Virginia's gubernatorial primary tomorrow, but I probably really shouldn't.
guys, this is killing me over here
posted by dogheart at 6:20 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
guys, this is killing me over here
posted by dogheart at 6:20 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
What possible justification could Trump give for firing him in less than 3 weeks?
"Fuck you, that's my name."
Doesn't Trump know that?
Trump knows what Jon Snow knows; nothing.
This comment links to a very good twitter thread about the implications.
posted by Justinian at 6:20 PM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Fuck you, that's my name."
Doesn't Trump know that?
Trump knows what Jon Snow knows; nothing.
This comment links to a very good twitter thread about the implications.
posted by Justinian at 6:20 PM on June 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Thank you, Justinian. That helps.
posted by greermahoney at 6:27 PM on June 12, 2017
posted by greermahoney at 6:27 PM on June 12, 2017
From waaaay back (this morning) in Ivanka's complaint about the "viciousness" of the media:
"My father and this administration intends to be transformative, and we want to do big, bold things and we're looking to change the status quo. So I didn't expect it to be easy."
Who the fuck elected her to do "big, bold things" and "change the status quo"? How can she sit there so blithely and talk so openly about how her entire family-- not just Trump himself-- is planning on running the country from their appointed, made-up positions in the White House? To so unthinkingly acknowledge that the banana republic has really and truly arrived with this it-must-be-illegal nepotism?
posted by jokeefe at 6:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [58 favorites]
"My father and this administration intends to be transformative, and we want to do big, bold things and we're looking to change the status quo. So I didn't expect it to be easy."
Who the fuck elected her to do "big, bold things" and "change the status quo"? How can she sit there so blithely and talk so openly about how her entire family-- not just Trump himself-- is planning on running the country from their appointed, made-up positions in the White House? To so unthinkingly acknowledge that the banana republic has really and truly arrived with this it-must-be-illegal nepotism?
posted by jokeefe at 6:44 PM on June 12, 2017 [58 favorites]
Would anybody more familiar with Schiff's character care to weigh in?
I'm next door to his district (TedLieu \O/) and think he's great. And smart. I would be surprised if he posted that without believing it. If nothing else, I think he's tactically smart enough not to leave himself wide open.
One thing to remember about defense attorneys: we don't just need them because everyone has a right to one, we also need them to make sure that the state presents legitimate cases and doesn't abuse it's power. (That's a general statement, not a defense of defending a Trump.)
posted by Room 641-A at 6:58 PM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm next door to his district (TedLieu \O/) and think he's great. And smart. I would be surprised if he posted that without believing it. If nothing else, I think he's tactically smart enough not to leave himself wide open.
One thing to remember about defense attorneys: we don't just need them because everyone has a right to one, we also need them to make sure that the state presents legitimate cases and doesn't abuse it's power. (That's a general statement, not a defense of defending a Trump.)
posted by Room 641-A at 6:58 PM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
I liked Megyn Kelly in Sleepless in Seattle.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:08 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:08 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump and Family hate the "status quo" because it hasn't made them the Richest Family in the World yet. But they're working on it.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:12 PM on June 12, 2017
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:12 PM on June 12, 2017
Finding out exactly what happened is the important part. That leading to an impeachment is desirable but if it doesn't we can deal with that later.
Yeah, my big fear is that we're going to get the impeachment instead of finding out what really happened.
posted by bongo_x at 7:14 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, my big fear is that we're going to get the impeachment instead of finding out what really happened.
posted by bongo_x at 7:14 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I watched the Dear Leader video again. Did you guys see Mattis' die a little bit inside? At least he couldn't bring himself to praise Trump.
The real courageous thing to do, of course, would have been to say that the rest of them should have been ashamed of themselves.
posted by Justinian at 7:18 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
The real courageous thing to do, of course, would have been to say that the rest of them should have been ashamed of themselves.
posted by Justinian at 7:18 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Stalin sent the first person to stop clapping for him at the Communist Party conference of 1937 to the gulag. I hope nobody tells Trump about this, he might get some ideas.
posted by Justinian at 7:22 PM on June 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:22 PM on June 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
I'm sure he will be very sad when someone tells him that the FEMA reeducation camps aren't really a thing.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:25 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:25 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump is Not Too Crazy to Fire the Special Prosecutor
Why should the firing of Mueller play out much differently than the firing of Comey? The pro-Trump right will back him enthusiastically on Fox News and talk radio. The anti-anti-Trump right, a smaller and weaker faction, might initially object, but will quickly turn its attention to quibbling with or mocking his critics. (Get a load of this Berkeley professor who says firing Mueller is like the Reichstag fire! Or what about the time Bill Clinton or Barack Obama did something bad?)
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:43 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Why should the firing of Mueller play out much differently than the firing of Comey? The pro-Trump right will back him enthusiastically on Fox News and talk radio. The anti-anti-Trump right, a smaller and weaker faction, might initially object, but will quickly turn its attention to quibbling with or mocking his critics. (Get a load of this Berkeley professor who says firing Mueller is like the Reichstag fire! Or what about the time Bill Clinton or Barack Obama did something bad?)
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:43 PM on June 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
I like the idea of Mueller just refusing to resign or be fired, due to the absence of 'good cause'.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:56 PM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 7:56 PM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
Spicey sent out an email tonight (screenshot by Glenn Thrush/NYT on Twitter) saying that Ruddy never talked to Trump about firing Mueller.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:02 PM on June 12, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:02 PM on June 12, 2017
I don't think any good cabbage conscious of pretending Mattis any any less garbage than the rest - dude's a fucking war criminal, and works for Trump voluntarily, never forget.
posted by Artw at 8:06 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:06 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Finding out exactly what happened is the important part. That leading to an impeachment is desirable but if it doesn't we can deal with that later
Agreed- Nixon got off without ever having to fully account for what he did, and we can't let that happen again.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:08 PM on June 12, 2017
Agreed- Nixon got off without ever having to fully account for what he did, and we can't let that happen again.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:08 PM on June 12, 2017
Beyond marching we can organize, make phone calls, give donations, and challenge every lie that they put out there. And above all, keep morale, keep hope up.
And vote. And help your friends (who aren't batsh!t crazy) to vote. And get around all the obstacles you can get around to make that happen. Obama and the Clintons and the DNC during his term totally dropped the ball and kicked it to the other team regarding protecting voters; well, we can do better.
Nixon got off without ever having to fully account for what he did, and we can't let that happen again.
Trump has spent his entire life not having to fully account for anything he did; it's going to take a lot more systematic change to correct the big flaw in our system that made him possible. We need to keep working to make that change happen long after we've "beaten Trump".
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:13 PM on June 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
And vote. And help your friends (who aren't batsh!t crazy) to vote. And get around all the obstacles you can get around to make that happen. Obama and the Clintons and the DNC during his term totally dropped the ball and kicked it to the other team regarding protecting voters; well, we can do better.
Nixon got off without ever having to fully account for what he did, and we can't let that happen again.
Trump has spent his entire life not having to fully account for anything he did; it's going to take a lot more systematic change to correct the big flaw in our system that made him possible. We need to keep working to make that change happen long after we've "beaten Trump".
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:13 PM on June 12, 2017 [11 favorites]
Single tweet post, but this is a bombshell if true... To save you the click: "Sen. Al Franken just said on @hardball that evidence of a potential third meeting between Kislyak and Sessions includes intercepted coms." Tweeted by @KenDilanianNBC "ntelligence and national security reporter for the NBC News Investigative Unit."
Anybody catch that episode of Hardball?
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:19 PM on June 12, 2017 [27 favorites]
Anybody catch that episode of Hardball?
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:19 PM on June 12, 2017 [27 favorites]
First entry I see on twitter: Far Right Militia blog calls Mueller a "Moslem-lover."
at this rate they'll be ranting about Mussulmen and Saracens by the end of the month
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:20 PM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
at this rate they'll be ranting about Mussulmen and Saracens by the end of the month
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:20 PM on June 12, 2017 [15 favorites]
chris24: "Not to steal Chrysotom's well-earned local election thunder"
Ha, information wants to be free and whatever. I was in Philly for Susie & Chris's wedding.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ha, information wants to be free and whatever. I was in Philly for Susie & Chris's wedding.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Utterly bonkers PBS NewsHour interview with NewsMax CEO and friend-of-the-President Christopher Ruddy in which:
1) We learn that Ruddy is very concerned that Mueller has a conflict of interest because he works with a firm that has represented the Trump family. Mueller is presumably very concerned that this will give his friend, the President of the United States, an unfair advantage; therefore, the investigation must end immediately.
2) We learn that Ruddy is very concerned that Mueller has a conflict of interest because Trump didn't offer him the job of FBI Director. This is also true for eight billion other people, but Mueller is special because Trump considered him for the job and had a "confidential conversation" with the President in which they might have discussed the President's "feelings" about the Russia investigation. This is clearly a conflict of interest because it would mean that the investigator appointed by Trump's hand-picked Deputy Attorney General would have information about the subject he was appointed to investigate, which is unthinkable and frankly fills me with terror.
3) "Some people" say that Comey's act of giving his friend copies of his unclassified personal memos, as a private citizen, may have been "a criminal act". Who are these people? What is the alleged crime? Do the people exist outside of NewsMax CEO Christopher Ruddy's horrifying mindscape? We may never know.
4) Christopher Ruddy asks, regarding former FBI Director James Comey, and current President of the United States Donald Trump, "Who are you going to trust?" Christopher Ruddy does not answer this question because he presumes the answer to be is obvious: you are going to trust the guy from the Trump University infomercials who recently paid out twenty-five million dollars to settle a fraud lawsuit regarding those infomercials. Not the FBI guy, the other one. It is he who is the person to be trusted in this scenario.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:23 PM on June 12, 2017 [64 favorites]
1) We learn that Ruddy is very concerned that Mueller has a conflict of interest because he works with a firm that has represented the Trump family. Mueller is presumably very concerned that this will give his friend, the President of the United States, an unfair advantage; therefore, the investigation must end immediately.
2) We learn that Ruddy is very concerned that Mueller has a conflict of interest because Trump didn't offer him the job of FBI Director. This is also true for eight billion other people, but Mueller is special because Trump considered him for the job and had a "confidential conversation" with the President in which they might have discussed the President's "feelings" about the Russia investigation. This is clearly a conflict of interest because it would mean that the investigator appointed by Trump's hand-picked Deputy Attorney General would have information about the subject he was appointed to investigate, which is unthinkable and frankly fills me with terror.
3) "Some people" say that Comey's act of giving his friend copies of his unclassified personal memos, as a private citizen, may have been "a criminal act". Who are these people? What is the alleged crime? Do the people exist outside of NewsMax CEO Christopher Ruddy's horrifying mindscape? We may never know.
4) Christopher Ruddy asks, regarding former FBI Director James Comey, and current President of the United States Donald Trump, "Who are you going to trust?" Christopher Ruddy does not answer this question because he presumes the answer to be is obvious: you are going to trust the guy from the Trump University infomercials who recently paid out twenty-five million dollars to settle a fraud lawsuit regarding those infomercials. Not the FBI guy, the other one. It is he who is the person to be trusted in this scenario.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:23 PM on June 12, 2017 [64 favorites]
It's intercepted communications between two Russians talking about the meeting, not intercepted coms between Sessions and a Russian. That's not new info, unfortunately, Franken was just repeating what news had already reported.
posted by Justinian at 8:24 PM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 8:24 PM on June 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
because Trump didn't offer him the job of FBI Director. This is also true for eight billion other people, but Mueller is special because Trump considered him for the job
Do I need an excuse for being confused like should I pretend I hit my head, or was Bob Mueller not already FBI director for 12 years, two years longer than the customary 10, which is all everybody not James Comey expects to get anyway? and is also 72 years old? that's pretty old! not too old to be a special counsel or special prosecutor or just a very special person in general, with very special eyebrows. but too fucking old to accept a position that lasts for 10 years because at the end of that 10-year term, why, you'd be 80 or more (DIANNE FEINSTEIN), and also HE ALREADY DID THAT JOB
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:30 PM on June 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
Do I need an excuse for being confused like should I pretend I hit my head, or was Bob Mueller not already FBI director for 12 years, two years longer than the customary 10, which is all everybody not James Comey expects to get anyway? and is also 72 years old? that's pretty old! not too old to be a special counsel or special prosecutor or just a very special person in general, with very special eyebrows. but too fucking old to accept a position that lasts for 10 years because at the end of that 10-year term, why, you'd be 80 or more (DIANNE FEINSTEIN), and also HE ALREADY DID THAT JOB
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:30 PM on June 12, 2017 [54 favorites]
Franken was just repeating what news had already reported.
But Sessions was given the opportunity to correct his testimony, and didn't mention that meeting. There's no way that can be a good faith mistake. It can't be anything but perjury.
I think there were anonymous reports that the meeting had maybe happened, but that's different from a sitting senator saying he is aware of intercepts proving it did, which makes Sessions clearly a perjurer.
What can he possibly say about this tomorrow? What excuse can he possibly offer?
How could he have been this stupid in the first place? Why didn't he just list this meeting in his corrected testimony?
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:30 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
But Sessions was given the opportunity to correct his testimony, and didn't mention that meeting. There's no way that can be a good faith mistake. It can't be anything but perjury.
I think there were anonymous reports that the meeting had maybe happened, but that's different from a sitting senator saying he is aware of intercepts proving it did, which makes Sessions clearly a perjurer.
What can he possibly say about this tomorrow? What excuse can he possibly offer?
How could he have been this stupid in the first place? Why didn't he just list this meeting in his corrected testimony?
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:30 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
But Sessions was given the opportunity to correct his testimony, and didn't mention that meeting.
The evidence (of which we are aware) for the meeting is two Russians talking about the meeting. The defense would be that the meeting never happened and the Russians were mistaken OR knew they would be intercepted and were lying to sow chaos.
Without direct evidence the meeting occurred I expect that defense would hold even if people suspect Sessions perjured himself. But there could be secret evidence we don't know about.
posted by Justinian at 8:34 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
The evidence (of which we are aware) for the meeting is two Russians talking about the meeting. The defense would be that the meeting never happened and the Russians were mistaken OR knew they would be intercepted and were lying to sow chaos.
Without direct evidence the meeting occurred I expect that defense would hold even if people suspect Sessions perjured himself. But there could be secret evidence we don't know about.
posted by Justinian at 8:34 PM on June 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Give Sessions a break guys, he's new at this! He was used to being a dirty, corrupt, lying Senator for so long. Who knew being Attorney General was so complicated?
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:36 PM on June 12, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:36 PM on June 12, 2017 [39 favorites]
Anybody catch that episode of Hardball?
I saw it earlier (it was the regular 6-7 or 7-8pm first airing). Franken did say that, and then deadpanned that maybe Kislyak was just bragging/making it up on the call to Moscow about meeting with Sessions. Because meeting with Sessions would be SOOO impressive. (He was clearly being sarcastic because he obviously thinks or knows the meeting took place.) There was no indication what Kislyak said occurred in the meeting.
posted by chris24 at 8:36 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I saw it earlier (it was the regular 6-7 or 7-8pm first airing). Franken did say that, and then deadpanned that maybe Kislyak was just bragging/making it up on the call to Moscow about meeting with Sessions. Because meeting with Sessions would be SOOO impressive. (He was clearly being sarcastic because he obviously thinks or knows the meeting took place.) There was no indication what Kislyak said occurred in the meeting.
posted by chris24 at 8:36 PM on June 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Utterly bonkers PBS NewsHour interview with NewsMax CEO and friend-of-the-President Christopher Ruddy
This dude really did talk to Trump in person today, could very well represent Trump's actual though process.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:17 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
This dude really did talk to Trump in person today, could very well represent Trump's actual though process.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:17 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Thank you for that, East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94.' I thought I was going crazy when watching that.
posted by greermahoney at 9:26 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 9:26 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Interesting point.
@Pandeism:
All of Trumpland was fine with Mueller investigating -- until the precise moment he added a money-laundering expert to the team.
posted by chris24 at 10:07 PM on June 12, 2017 [136 favorites]
@Pandeism:
All of Trumpland was fine with Mueller investigating -- until the precise moment he added a money-laundering expert to the team.
posted by chris24 at 10:07 PM on June 12, 2017 [136 favorites]
ELECTIONS NEWS
** GA-06:
** GA-06:
-- 538: Dems have slight edge at this point.** Odds & ends:
-- Buzzfeed: Dems trying to drive up black vote.
-- EV now over 100k, 4 days left. Pace has slacked off a bit.
-- Handel comes perilously close to invoking the fatal words, "The only poll that matters is on Election Day." (latest victim: Theresa May)
-- General consensus seems to be that Ossoff is like a 60/40 favorite. A Handel victory would be by no means shocking, but doesn't seem to be likelier outcome.
-- VA gov primaries tomorrow. Northam looks to be the slight Dem favorite; Gillespie still looks good for GOP (there was a poll showing him tied, but looks like an outlier). Dem early voting way up vs 2016 prez primary, GOP off.posted by Chrysostom at 10:37 PM on June 12, 2017 [49 favorites]
-- NC court is looking to get the state LD gerrymandering case moving forward.
-- Playbook: GOP sees House at risk in 2018.
-- Nirenberg defeated Taylor in the San Antonio mayoral. This is a non-partisan, but Nirenberg was clearly seen as the more left of the two.
-- Also in San Antonio, progressive John Courage won a city council seat in a traditionally conservative district.
-- PPP: 49% think Trump obstructed justice, 41% no.
-- Gallup: Trump one point above worst all time approve/disapprove score (36/59).
-- MA working on passing automatic voter registration.
I've never liked Oliver Stone, I've always thought he was a horrible person but couldn't really defend my position until now.
posted by bongo_x at 10:39 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 10:39 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Megyn Kelly has been removed as the host of a Sandy Hook benefit.
She was going to be the announcer at a benefit for gun violence victims.
what in the fuck
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:45 PM on June 12, 2017 [66 favorites]
She was going to be the announcer at a benefit for gun violence victims.
what in the fuck
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:45 PM on June 12, 2017 [66 favorites]
All of Trumpland was fine with Mueller investigating -- until the precise moment he added a money-laundering expert to the team
This. But how could they ever imagine that wouldn't happen? Again, they are evil but they are also incredibly stupid.
posted by mumimor at 10:46 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
This. But how could they ever imagine that wouldn't happen? Again, they are evil but they are also incredibly stupid.
posted by mumimor at 10:46 PM on June 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Lawfare on what happens if Trump tries to get rid of Mueller.
tl;dr - There's a lot that's really unclear legally.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
tl;dr - There's a lot that's really unclear legally.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:49 PM on June 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Isn't that the whole theme of the Trump Administration? "There's a lot that's really unclear legally."
(personally, I think most of it is clearly illegal, but I'm just a guy on the internet without a following)
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:53 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
(personally, I think most of it is clearly illegal, but I'm just a guy on the internet without a following)
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:53 PM on June 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Revealed: reality of life working in an Ivanka Trump clothing factory
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:21 PM on June 12, 2017 [14 favorites]
I hope that someday this will have proven helpful, but I'd really prefer if they'd stop testing all the edge cases in constitutional law now.
posted by gofargogo at 11:22 PM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by gofargogo at 11:22 PM on June 12, 2017 [13 favorites]
Probably not, unless we're going to have a constitutional convention.
posted by dilaudid at 11:24 PM on June 12, 2017
posted by dilaudid at 11:24 PM on June 12, 2017
Sen. Schumer is trolling Trump with a video in which members of his staff go around the table praising him. If you haven't seen the original of Trump's cabinet meeting, it's worth watching the clip. We're well into "Dear Leader" territory here.
Listening to the BBC Worldservice (radio) and one of its Washington DC correspondents described the cabinet meeting as "extraordinary" and "North Korean-style". There then followed a clip of Reince Preibus speaking at the meeting.
A lot of people listen to the BBC Worldservice.
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:58 PM on June 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
Listening to the BBC Worldservice (radio) and one of its Washington DC correspondents described the cabinet meeting as "extraordinary" and "North Korean-style". There then followed a clip of Reince Preibus speaking at the meeting.
A lot of people listen to the BBC Worldservice.
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:58 PM on June 12, 2017 [35 favorites]
From the Lawfare link:
There is no doubt that firing Mueller would cause a backlash in Congress.
There is plenty of doubt on that, especially on the Republican side. They turned on Comey. They're already turning on Mueller. They will, to a person, fully support his firing, however that is done. The Republicans have stood by and supported every criminal thing Trump has done so far. They. Don't. Care. What. Trump. Does. As long as they keep their power, no low is too low for them. They are fully on board with a lawless, Putinesque oligarchy.
Congress would rise up quickly to stop the President, and the pressure on the cabinet would be enormous as well. If I am naive in thinking this, then we are indeed in trouble.
I think there are a lot of heads in the sand when it comes to Trump. The only way he is leaving office is death, violent overthrow, or getting voted out in 2020, and I'm not sure about the last one.
posted by dirigibleman at 11:58 PM on June 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
There is no doubt that firing Mueller would cause a backlash in Congress.
There is plenty of doubt on that, especially on the Republican side. They turned on Comey. They're already turning on Mueller. They will, to a person, fully support his firing, however that is done. The Republicans have stood by and supported every criminal thing Trump has done so far. They. Don't. Care. What. Trump. Does. As long as they keep their power, no low is too low for them. They are fully on board with a lawless, Putinesque oligarchy.
Congress would rise up quickly to stop the President, and the pressure on the cabinet would be enormous as well. If I am naive in thinking this, then we are indeed in trouble.
I think there are a lot of heads in the sand when it comes to Trump. The only way he is leaving office is death, violent overthrow, or getting voted out in 2020, and I'm not sure about the last one.
posted by dirigibleman at 11:58 PM on June 12, 2017 [26 favorites]
Probably not, unless we're going to have a constitutional convention.
Gods no. The Founders were flawed men but they were honest, even earnest, about their views & visions. Fully half our political leaders are deeply dishonest, bought & paid for with no goodwill to their fellow citizens. As a blueprint for the next century it would not go well.
posted by scalefree at 12:04 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Gods no. The Founders were flawed men but they were honest, even earnest, about their views & visions. Fully half our political leaders are deeply dishonest, bought & paid for with no goodwill to their fellow citizens. As a blueprint for the next century it would not go well.
posted by scalefree at 12:04 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trumps leaking Israeli intel to the Russians compromised one of the very few successful cyber warfare operations against ISIS:
Part of the issue seems to be that ISIS’s use of technology is more basic and mundane, though not necessarily less effective. They’re not running major industrial projects like massive installations of centrifuges or missile design programs. Much of the stuff isn’t that different from running a website. Break it down and it’s easy enough to build back up. But down below the lede in the Times story is this fascinating detail.
One of the stand-out cyber-warfare or spying feats against ISIS was carried out by Israel. And it was that operation that President Trump blabbed to Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov and Ambassador Kislyak.
posted by PenDevil at 12:35 AM on June 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
Part of the issue seems to be that ISIS’s use of technology is more basic and mundane, though not necessarily less effective. They’re not running major industrial projects like massive installations of centrifuges or missile design programs. Much of the stuff isn’t that different from running a website. Break it down and it’s easy enough to build back up. But down below the lede in the Times story is this fascinating detail.
One of the stand-out cyber-warfare or spying feats against ISIS was carried out by Israel. And it was that operation that President Trump blabbed to Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov and Ambassador Kislyak.
posted by PenDevil at 12:35 AM on June 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
Megyn Kelly has been removed as the host of a Sandy Hook benefit.
She was going to be the announcer at a benefit for gun violence victims.
what in the fuck
Isn't this a good thing? (I'm not understanding the WTF part, so maybe I'm missing something.)
posted by Room 641-A at 12:58 AM on June 13, 2017
She was going to be the announcer at a benefit for gun violence victims.
what in the fuck
Isn't this a good thing? (I'm not understanding the WTF part, so maybe I'm missing something.)
posted by Room 641-A at 12:58 AM on June 13, 2017
Well that would explain McCain's confused blabbering: Trump ‘Aggressively Courted’ Cindy McCain for State Dept Job
Trump might not have many legislative wins, but in at least one case his negotiation skills have made the impossible a reality: getting a McCain to serve in his administration.
posted by mumimor at 12:58 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump might not have many legislative wins, but in at least one case his negotiation skills have made the impossible a reality: getting a McCain to serve in his administration.
posted by mumimor at 12:58 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trumps leaking Israeli intel to the Russians compromised one of the very few successful cyber warfare operations against ISIS
At least this probably means he didn't reveal the identity of an Israeli mole. It's not much of a bright side, but this year I'll take what I can get.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:02 AM on June 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
At least this probably means he didn't reveal the identity of an Israeli mole. It's not much of a bright side, but this year I'll take what I can get.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:02 AM on June 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I found some video of Al Franken's appearance on Hardball at this link.
Also... That Ivanka' s factory article ies breaking my heart.
"When Alia was told the gist of Ivanka Trump’s new book on women in the workplace, she burst out laughing. Her idea of work-life balance, she said, would be if she could see her children more than once a month."
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:55 AM on June 13, 2017 [34 favorites]
Also... That Ivanka' s factory article ies breaking my heart.
"When Alia was told the gist of Ivanka Trump’s new book on women in the workplace, she burst out laughing. Her idea of work-life balance, she said, would be if she could see her children more than once a month."
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:55 AM on June 13, 2017 [34 favorites]
Isn't this a good thing? (I'm not understanding the WTF part, so maybe I'm missing something.)
I think the WTF is that she had even been asked/hired to do that to begin with.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:09 AM on June 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
I think the WTF is that she had even been asked/hired to do that to begin with.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:09 AM on June 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
Isn't this a good thing? (I'm not understanding the WTF part, so maybe I'm missing something.)
I think the WTF is that she had even been asked/hired to do that to begin with.
and accepted the gig AND had a Sandy Hook denier on her show. I don't know which came first (arranging the gala hosting or the interview) but WhatTF were you thinking trying to do both?! [rhetorical]
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 3:30 AM on June 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
I think the WTF is that she had even been asked/hired to do that to begin with.
and accepted the gig AND had a Sandy Hook denier on her show. I don't know which came first (arranging the gala hosting or the interview) but WhatTF were you thinking trying to do both?! [rhetorical]
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 3:30 AM on June 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
"See, women really can have it all!" [fake]
posted by box at 3:33 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 3:33 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
At least this probably means he didn't reveal the identity of an Israeli mole. It's not much of a bright side, but this year I'll take what I can get.
On the dim side of that bright side, it would have been better to keep ISIS thinking there was a mole and devoting effort to finding him.
posted by Etrigan at 3:41 AM on June 13, 2017
On the dim side of that bright side, it would have been better to keep ISIS thinking there was a mole and devoting effort to finding him.
posted by Etrigan at 3:41 AM on June 13, 2017
Just read the Ivanka article.
About ten years ago, I wrote a short one-act play about a survivor of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. I'm reminded of a rant from the survivor towards the end.
"...People still just want their blue jeans or their suits or their tee-shirts from Walmart, and they do not think that a person has to make each and every one of them. And they do not think that person who made their tee-shirt has a name, and a story, and a life they are trying to lead, and they do not think if that life is hard.
"...My friends died, I almost died, in Triangle, and everyone said that things would change, but then people wanted their shirts again and so nothing happened and now there are Triangles everywhere."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:57 AM on June 13, 2017 [41 favorites]
About ten years ago, I wrote a short one-act play about a survivor of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. I'm reminded of a rant from the survivor towards the end.
"...People still just want their blue jeans or their suits or their tee-shirts from Walmart, and they do not think that a person has to make each and every one of them. And they do not think that person who made their tee-shirt has a name, and a story, and a life they are trying to lead, and they do not think if that life is hard.
"...My friends died, I almost died, in Triangle, and everyone said that things would change, but then people wanted their shirts again and so nothing happened and now there are Triangles everywhere."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:57 AM on June 13, 2017 [41 favorites]
Isn't this a good thing? (I'm not understanding the WTF part, so maybe I'm missing something.)
The WTF is that she or somebody thought it was a good idea to try and do both. Like, which came first? Did she realize how badly the Jones interview could play and thought "I'll just do a benefit and it'll all cancel out. Sorted!" Or was she going to do the benefit and then decided to hobnob with the parents at the Sandy Hook thing?
Just, what
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:34 AM on June 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
The WTF is that she or somebody thought it was a good idea to try and do both. Like, which came first? Did she realize how badly the Jones interview could play and thought "I'll just do a benefit and it'll all cancel out. Sorted!" Or was she going to do the benefit and then decided to hobnob with the parents at the Sandy Hook thing?
Just, what
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:34 AM on June 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Er, going to do the interview before deciding to do the benefit, I mean
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:41 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:41 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Got it, thanks! Makes more sense when read with a little a few more hours of sleep and some caffiene.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:49 AM on June 13, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 4:49 AM on June 13, 2017
POTUS' second tweet this morning (his first was just another fake news is fake one): @realdonaldtrump
Well, as predicted, the 9th Circuit did it again - Ruled against the TRAVEL BAN at such a dangerous time in the history of our country. S.C.
1. It was predicted because your ban is unconstitutional, and the 9th Circuit follows the Constitution.
2. Thanks for calling it a ban again.
3. S.C. = Supreme Court? South Carolina? Are you asking the "SC" to respond to your tweet?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:02 AM on June 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
Well, as predicted, the 9th Circuit did it again - Ruled against the TRAVEL BAN at such a dangerous time in the history of our country. S.C.
1. It was predicted because your ban is unconstitutional, and the 9th Circuit follows the Constitution.
2. Thanks for calling it a ban again.
3. S.C. = Supreme Court? South Carolina? Are you asking the "SC" to respond to your tweet?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:02 AM on June 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
S.C. = Sad! Covfefe
posted by Slothrup at 5:04 AM on June 13, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Slothrup at 5:04 AM on June 13, 2017 [45 favorites]
He's upgraded his position from President to Supreme Commander since the cabinet meeting the other day.
posted by dng at 5:07 AM on June 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by dng at 5:07 AM on June 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
Swedish Chef?
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:08 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:08 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Bloomberg: Russian Breach of 39 States Threatens Future U.S. Elections: In Illinois, investigators found evidence that cyber intruders tried to delete or alter voter data. The hackers accessed software designed to be used by poll workers on Election Day, and in at least one state accessed a campaign finance database. Details of the wave of attacks, in the summer and fall of 2016, were provided by three people with direct knowledge of the U.S. investigation into the matter. In all, the Russian hackers hit systems in a total of 39 states, one of them said.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:12 AM on June 13, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:12 AM on June 13, 2017 [48 favorites]
Senior Citizen?
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:12 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:12 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Squat Cobbler. So not a pee tape, exactly.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:13 AM on June 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 5:13 AM on June 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
See [you in] Court.
He needs the SCOTUS to take this up and make a decision soon; maybe that's a subtweet to the SC?
posted by notyou at 5:16 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
He needs the SCOTUS to take this up and make a decision soon; maybe that's a subtweet to the SC?
posted by notyou at 5:16 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
This would be fantastic.
@ReformedBroker:
NBA champion Warriors skipping the White House visit, as a unanimous team decision per reports.
posted by chris24 at 5:16 AM on June 13, 2017 [86 favorites]
@ReformedBroker:
NBA champion Warriors skipping the White House visit, as a unanimous team decision per reports.
posted by chris24 at 5:16 AM on June 13, 2017 [86 favorites]
via Politico: - RUDDY DOUBLES DOWN, in email to us: “Spicer issued a bizarre late night press release that a) doesn’t deny my claim the President is considering firing Mueller and b) says I didn’t speak to the President about the matter -- when I never claimed to have done so. Memo to Sean: focus your efforts on exposing the flim-flam Russian allegations against POTUS and highlighting his remarkable achievements! Don’t waste time trying to undermine one of your few allies.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:22 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:22 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
S.C. is the sign-off for Donald's rap persona, Serious Crimez
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:23 AM on June 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:23 AM on June 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
"Ban Key" - Loon
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:24 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:24 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Senate Democrats likely to trade Russia sanctions deal for not going nuclear on the AHCA
24 million Americans losing their health insurance: totally worth it
posted by indubitable at 5:24 AM on June 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
24 million Americans losing their health insurance: totally worth it
posted by indubitable at 5:24 AM on June 13, 2017 [21 favorites]
A lot of people listen to the BBC Worldservice.
Why did Theresa May leak privileged communications between Trump and Priebus to North Korea??!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:26 AM on June 13, 2017
Why did Theresa May leak privileged communications between Trump and Priebus to North Korea??!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:26 AM on June 13, 2017
I guess I get to experience the pleasure of yelling at my fucking senators too, then. HOLD THE FUCKING LINE, DEMS.
posted by lydhre at 5:28 AM on June 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 5:28 AM on June 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
Chris Ruddy helps fund the "university" that employs "Dr." Gorka.
posted by phoque at 5:30 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by phoque at 5:30 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
If the Republicans put Russia sanctions on the table in a domestic policy fight that's a terrible sign.
Can anyone tell what the source for the Bloomberg "40 States" claim is? I can't figure out how they got this information.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:31 AM on June 13, 2017
Can anyone tell what the source for the Bloomberg "40 States" claim is? I can't figure out how they got this information.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:31 AM on June 13, 2017
I don't see how "Republicans: We care more that Russian oligarchs can buy another empty London mansion than we do about your health care" is a good election slogan?
posted by PenDevil at 5:34 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by PenDevil at 5:34 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Senate Democrats likely to trade Russia sanctions deal for not going nuclear on the AHCA
24 million Americans losing their health insurance: totally worth it
Well, if I were American, I'd be on the streets now. That is unbelievably obscene, and I guess that is why some people give up on politics.
posted by mumimor at 5:37 AM on June 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
24 million Americans losing their health insurance: totally worth it
Well, if I were American, I'd be on the streets now. That is unbelievably obscene, and I guess that is why some people give up on politics.
posted by mumimor at 5:37 AM on June 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
After actually reading the tweet, I guess it's not framed that way. "Going nuclear" would mean stopping all other business, necessarily including sanctions. So they aren't necessarily putting that in the table. It's just a fact that you can't "go nuclear" AND pass anything, including sanctions.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:39 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:39 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
I find this "Trump Wants to Fire Mueller" thing very curious. Like its an intentional leak to distract from Sessions open session, maybe even to feel out what public reaction to firing Mueller would be.
Both seem rather far fetched, the timing if it was to distract from Sessions is off.
Maybe he just wants to be back in the spotlight again and firing Mueller will get him "post Comey firing" levels of press covfefe.
posted by Twain Device at 5:40 AM on June 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Both seem rather far fetched, the timing if it was to distract from Sessions is off.
Maybe he just wants to be back in the spotlight again and firing Mueller will get him "post Comey firing" levels of press covfefe.
posted by Twain Device at 5:40 AM on June 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
I honestly think Trump wants to fire Mueller because he's Trump and firing people when they displease him is what Trump does, and his supporters are trying to tell him not to do so through media interviews and LEAKING
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:42 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:42 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Chris Ruddy helps fund the "university" that employs "Dr." Gorka
Seb Gorka.
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:42 AM on June 13, 2017
Seb Gorka.
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:42 AM on June 13, 2017
Several news outlets including CNN are reporting that 3 of 5 people that Mueller hired to assist him have donated to Democrats. This of course makes them Partisan hacks and the whole Russian investigation a "witch hunt" I expect to see a lot more of this sort of thing in the coming days as the WH attempts to shutdown the investigation entirely.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 AM on June 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 AM on June 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
That Twitter thread seems to be saying that the Dems have no significant delaying tactics available to stop it passing with 51 votes regardless?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:45 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:45 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'd hold off on condemning the Senate Democrats just yet. The story is based, apparently, on a tweet report of an email from an unnamed Senate staffer. And it would be terrible politics; they need to be seen as defenders of health care. Of course, if true it's awful.
posted by notyou at 5:45 AM on June 13, 2017
posted by notyou at 5:45 AM on June 13, 2017
After actually reading the tweet, I guess it's not framed that way. "Going nuclear" would mean stopping all other business, necessarily including sanctions. So they aren't necessarily putting that in the table. It's just a fact that you can't "go nuclear" AND pass anything, including sanctions.
sorry, is dropping health insurance for 24 million Americans and dismantling what little incremental progress was made on health care not worth shutting down the Senate?
posted by indubitable at 5:46 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
sorry, is dropping health insurance for 24 million Americans and dismantling what little incremental progress was made on health care not worth shutting down the Senate?
posted by indubitable at 5:46 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Isn't the whole point of Republicans using reconciliation that the Dems would be unable to stop them if they get 51 votes? It's unclear to me that we can blame the Dems for any of this.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:50 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:50 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump’s Personal Lawyer Boasted That He Got Preet Bharara Fired: Kasowitz told Trump, “This guy is going to get you,” according to a person familiar with Kasowitz’s account.
Those who know Kasowitz say he is sometimes prone to exaggerating when regaling them with his exploits. But if true, his assertion adds to the mystery surrounding the motive and timing of Bharara’s firing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:50 AM on June 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
Those who know Kasowitz say he is sometimes prone to exaggerating when regaling them with his exploits. But if true, his assertion adds to the mystery surrounding the motive and timing of Bharara’s firing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:50 AM on June 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
Firing a Department of Justice employee because he believes they're "going to get" him is so unlike our president! But it is very much like obstruction of justice!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:52 AM on June 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:52 AM on June 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
sorry, is dropping health insurance for 24 million Americans and dismantling what little incremental progress was made on health care not worth shutting down the Senate?
Tough call when the alternative may be continuing to allow Russia a free hand in influencing our government. I mean saving health care doesn't help much if you can't save the government that runs the program.
Still though, I'm for not giving an inch to the Republicans at this point to make them take the responsibility since the Democrats don't have much in the way of viable options for getting anything worthwhile done on their own anyway.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:53 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Tough call when the alternative may be continuing to allow Russia a free hand in influencing our government. I mean saving health care doesn't help much if you can't save the government that runs the program.
Still though, I'm for not giving an inch to the Republicans at this point to make them take the responsibility since the Democrats don't have much in the way of viable options for getting anything worthwhile done on their own anyway.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:53 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Isn't the whole point of Republicans using reconciliation that the Dems would be unable to stop them if they get 51 votes? It's unclear to me that we can blame the Dems for any of this.
Yeah, that's basically it. The "trade sanctions for healthcare" framing is nonsense - they're not going to deny consent because it wouldn't stop the bill, and would also wreck their chances of doing other things, e.g. sanctions.
There's still a case to make that throwing the kitchen sink at Republicans even if it won't work is still valuable, but there's literally no procedural tool available to Democrats that will stop 50 Republicans plus Pence from passing whatever the fuck they want to pass via reconciliation.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:54 AM on June 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
Yeah, that's basically it. The "trade sanctions for healthcare" framing is nonsense - they're not going to deny consent because it wouldn't stop the bill, and would also wreck their chances of doing other things, e.g. sanctions.
There's still a case to make that throwing the kitchen sink at Republicans even if it won't work is still valuable, but there's literally no procedural tool available to Democrats that will stop 50 Republicans plus Pence from passing whatever the fuck they want to pass via reconciliation.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:54 AM on June 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
Stephen Colbert tried in vain to get Oliver Stone to criticize Vladimir Putin
Stone is just the latest useful idiot to start showing up all over the social media feeds of various Buster/Stein folks I know, and it's usually with enough "but-what-about"s and tactical naïveté to power a small country if we could just somehow harvest the kinetic energy they generate from tap dancing around their cognitive dissonance.
The dumb contrarianism (and willful ignorance) from the usual suspects surrounding all things Putin and Russia is getting so old. (Not to mention, dangerous.)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:58 AM on June 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Stone is just the latest useful idiot to start showing up all over the social media feeds of various Buster/Stein folks I know, and it's usually with enough "but-what-about"s and tactical naïveté to power a small country if we could just somehow harvest the kinetic energy they generate from tap dancing around their cognitive dissonance.
The dumb contrarianism (and willful ignorance) from the usual suspects surrounding all things Putin and Russia is getting so old. (Not to mention, dangerous.)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:58 AM on June 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Isn't the whole point of Republicans using reconciliation that the Dems would be unable to stop them if they get 51 votes? It's unclear to me that we can blame the Dems for any of this.
You can blame whomever you want. Schumer and Gillibrand are my Senators. If they can't deliver the results my community needs, then they are the ones who have to answer for it at the ballot box. I don't care if they don't have the votes. They need to get creative and come up with some other way to block it or some other politicking to make sure it doesn't get passed. You don't get to "apologize" for letting millions of people die; at least not until you've obstructed enough to land yourself in jail. If all else fails, I expect them to be willing to get arrested/go to jail over this (and I let them know as much when I contacted their offices this morning). It's literally everything.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:59 AM on June 13, 2017 [37 favorites]
You can blame whomever you want. Schumer and Gillibrand are my Senators. If they can't deliver the results my community needs, then they are the ones who have to answer for it at the ballot box. I don't care if they don't have the votes. They need to get creative and come up with some other way to block it or some other politicking to make sure it doesn't get passed. You don't get to "apologize" for letting millions of people die; at least not until you've obstructed enough to land yourself in jail. If all else fails, I expect them to be willing to get arrested/go to jail over this (and I let them know as much when I contacted their offices this morning). It's literally everything.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:59 AM on June 13, 2017 [37 favorites]
Isn't everything about optics now, about how this all can be turned into ads in 2018? Technically, the Republicans can do whatever they want, and they will, but if enough people realize they've been had, there will be consequences. To those who say it's impossible to turn the Senate, I'd suggest that since it has happened before, it can happen again.
posted by mumimor at 6:01 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mumimor at 6:01 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Repealing Obamacare has been a defining issue of the Republican Party for years. If they fail to do so it will be because Republicans can't agree on a replacement, not because of some arcane procedural nonsense. If the votes are there, they will stop at nothing to get it passed.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:02 AM on June 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:02 AM on June 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Exactly, melissasaurus. This - THIS - is the hill that the Democrats need to die on. Not only is it an assault on the very lives of their constituents, it's the only framing we've got for 2018. If the Dems are not going to fight, why even elect Dems at all? RESISTANCE is important, even if ultimately unsuccessful.
posted by lydhre at 6:03 AM on June 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 6:03 AM on June 13, 2017 [28 favorites]
If the votes are there, they will stop at nothing to get it passed.
Will they stop at nothing, though? How will we know until we try everything?
posted by melissasaurus at 6:04 AM on June 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Will they stop at nothing, though? How will we know until we try everything?
posted by melissasaurus at 6:04 AM on June 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
If you stand for nothing, Burr, what will you fall for?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:06 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 6:06 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Not only is it an assault on the very lives of their constituents, it's the only framing we've got for 2018. If the Dems are not going to fight, why even elect Dems at all?
shoot, that reminds me, today is primary day in Virginia.
posted by indubitable at 6:07 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
shoot, that reminds me, today is primary day in Virginia.
posted by indubitable at 6:07 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Will they stop at nothing, though? How will we know until we try everything?
Well the only practical thing we have in the toolbox is appealing to their sense of shame and they seem impervious to that.
posted by Talez at 6:07 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well the only practical thing we have in the toolbox is appealing to their sense of shame and they seem impervious to that.
posted by Talez at 6:07 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
They don't need to shut down business until the bill is dead - as mentioned, that's not going to kill the thing. But if they can shut down business to keep it from passing before the July recess, that makes everyone go home and face the pressure from constituents about it.
posted by Wulfhere at 6:11 AM on June 13, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by Wulfhere at 6:11 AM on June 13, 2017 [49 favorites]
But if they can shut down business to keep it from passing before the July recess, that makes everyone go home and face the pressure from constituents about it.
Yeah, I think the Senate's not on the radar like the House was. Also, the Trump/Sessions/Mueller show is sucking all the air from the outrage room.
This needs time to get spun up.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:17 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I think the Senate's not on the radar like the House was. Also, the Trump/Sessions/Mueller show is sucking all the air from the outrage room.
This needs time to get spun up.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:17 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Stephen Colbert tried in vain to get Oliver Stone to criticize Vladimir Putin
Stone has gone from polezniye durak status to full-on Putinist:
Anyhoo, Showtime's contact form is here if people want to complain about their airing Russian propaganda.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:18 AM on June 13, 2017 [45 favorites]
Stone has gone from polezniye durak status to full-on Putinist:
Q: There’s widespread suspicion that the Russians meddled in the U.S. election. Do you believe that they did?Stone's son has his own show on Russia Today.
Stone: No. But I’m not going to say that on film sitting across from Putin. I do, I ask him, though. And he says no. “Meddle in an election? What does that mean? Influence the election? No, not at all.” Whether you believe him or not is up to you, but that’s what he said.
Russia had no influence in this election. [...] This is, as Putin says, an internal political conflict in America, raised by the Democrats seeking to get rid of Trump and make his administration ineffective. It’s actually, in my mind, very dangerous to the American body politic. The Democrats have raised the issue of distrust between the government and its people, and they are pushing it toward the destruction of America.[...]
Q: Let’s talk about Russian media. The new French president Emmanuel Macron called the Russian media outlets RT and Sputnik “propaganda outlets.” Would you agree with that?
Stone: No.
Q: Why not?
Stone: Because I look at RT and I think it’s very effective.
Anyhoo, Showtime's contact form is here if people want to complain about their airing Russian propaganda.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:18 AM on June 13, 2017 [45 favorites]
This would be fantastic.
@ReformedBroker:
NBA champion Warriors skipping the White House visit, as a unanimous team decision per reports.
NBA's always been the most Woke professional sports league. (I mean, it's not a high bar, but...)
posted by leotrotsky at 6:20 AM on June 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
@ReformedBroker:
NBA champion Warriors skipping the White House visit, as a unanimous team decision per reports.
NBA's always been the most Woke professional sports league. (I mean, it's not a high bar, but...)
posted by leotrotsky at 6:20 AM on June 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
NBA's always been the most Woke professional sports league. (I mean, it's not a high bar, but...)
Yep, and Warriors coach Steve Kerr has publicly criticized Trump several times.
As has Spurs coach Gregg Popovich.
posted by chris24 at 6:25 AM on June 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yep, and Warriors coach Steve Kerr has publicly criticized Trump several times.
As has Spurs coach Gregg Popovich.
posted by chris24 at 6:25 AM on June 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
The thing with Putin: It's cultural. There's part of the left, depressingly enough, that has built their entire identity around "America is the Biggest Bad that is possible in this 'verse" and everyone else must be excused. People can't change - they'll probably change in four or five years, if our elections go visibly pear-shaped and we get Putin-style journalist murder and/or treatment of GLBTQ people here, because they are not, after all people, who actually like terrible things for their own sake. (People like fantasy authoritarianism when they can imagine it being worked against their enemies, but that doesn't mean they like the real thing.) They're just people who can't force themselves to say "sometimes countries other than the United States are shitty, and it's only the fault of the US in a second-order way".
I don't even think it's Cold War nostalgia - I don't think people are dumb enough to believe that Putin is delivering for people. I think it's pure left in-group culture, where it's very, very difficult to be the one who says "no, wait, actually this guy's government is incredibly corrupt, Russia is incredibly unequal, whatever you believe about security and the former Soviet states, Putin's government's behavior has been very dodgy and unethical, and the Putin government persecutes journalists, gays and feminists, so we can't like them." And I feel that this is true because I see it in my social circle, and I feel like I've been dropped by a couple of people because I have said that I think that of course, a large sketchy imperial power is going to intervene here if they can. "We do it, " I say, "why wouldn't Putin?" But even that is not sufficiently radical.
It's tiring.
It's happening, too, as even the most "Putin is an innocent lamb" left outlets are dropping their coverage on the whole thing as it becomes more obvious that there actually has been a pretty good bash at intervention. It's like "now that it looks like Putin isn't an innocent lamb, we just won't talk about it anymore because if we pretend that getting our voting machines hacked doesn't matter because America is the evil empire, everything will be great". Kind of like how if we pretend that Trump is no worse than Hillary, everything will be great.
And it's just like no, I would prefer that no one hacks anyone's elections, even here in the heart of the beast.
Also, I feel like it's shitty to the Russian left. Left wing Russians aren't standing up and saying "hooray, Putin is Lenin with the bad bits left out", they're saying "this government is extremely corrupt and violent and homophobic and horrible", and instead of saying "SAME!!! Drinks later?" we're all "no, it's not!!!"
posted by Frowner at 6:26 AM on June 13, 2017 [83 favorites]
I don't even think it's Cold War nostalgia - I don't think people are dumb enough to believe that Putin is delivering for people. I think it's pure left in-group culture, where it's very, very difficult to be the one who says "no, wait, actually this guy's government is incredibly corrupt, Russia is incredibly unequal, whatever you believe about security and the former Soviet states, Putin's government's behavior has been very dodgy and unethical, and the Putin government persecutes journalists, gays and feminists, so we can't like them." And I feel that this is true because I see it in my social circle, and I feel like I've been dropped by a couple of people because I have said that I think that of course, a large sketchy imperial power is going to intervene here if they can. "We do it, " I say, "why wouldn't Putin?" But even that is not sufficiently radical.
It's tiring.
It's happening, too, as even the most "Putin is an innocent lamb" left outlets are dropping their coverage on the whole thing as it becomes more obvious that there actually has been a pretty good bash at intervention. It's like "now that it looks like Putin isn't an innocent lamb, we just won't talk about it anymore because if we pretend that getting our voting machines hacked doesn't matter because America is the evil empire, everything will be great". Kind of like how if we pretend that Trump is no worse than Hillary, everything will be great.
And it's just like no, I would prefer that no one hacks anyone's elections, even here in the heart of the beast.
Also, I feel like it's shitty to the Russian left. Left wing Russians aren't standing up and saying "hooray, Putin is Lenin with the bad bits left out", they're saying "this government is extremely corrupt and violent and homophobic and horrible", and instead of saying "SAME!!! Drinks later?" we're all "no, it's not!!!"
posted by Frowner at 6:26 AM on June 13, 2017 [83 favorites]
The other thing I've seen a lot of is "well, Russian hackers only got into this or that database and fooled around a little, there's no evidence it altered anything", and I'm like "so this means we wait around until they figure out how to alter things?"
I mean, if there is one thing I am confident in, it is the ability of hackers generally - and Russian ones in particular since they seem very on the ball - to sort that stuff out. I'd rather not kick the can down the road until we have a permanent Republican majority everywhere that doesn't use paper ballots.
posted by Frowner at 6:32 AM on June 13, 2017 [40 favorites]
I mean, if there is one thing I am confident in, it is the ability of hackers generally - and Russian ones in particular since they seem very on the ball - to sort that stuff out. I'd rather not kick the can down the road until we have a permanent Republican majority everywhere that doesn't use paper ballots.
posted by Frowner at 6:32 AM on June 13, 2017 [40 favorites]
If the votes are there, they will stop at nothing to get it passed.
Will they stop at nothing, though? How will we know until we try everything?
We don't know no. Which is part of why D Senators should be trying. We just have to keep trying what we reasonably can until something works. At the very least, we need to make sure that the GOP actually does every shady, underhanded thing you and I both know they're willing to do to get the thing passed. At the very least, if the thing passes, they'll be able to claim that they did everything they reasonably could to stop it.
That and I think it's important to make a good faith effort to exhaust all reasonable options before we start trying the more unreasonable ones.
posted by VTX at 6:39 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Will they stop at nothing, though? How will we know until we try everything?
We don't know no. Which is part of why D Senators should be trying. We just have to keep trying what we reasonably can until something works. At the very least, we need to make sure that the GOP actually does every shady, underhanded thing you and I both know they're willing to do to get the thing passed. At the very least, if the thing passes, they'll be able to claim that they did everything they reasonably could to stop it.
That and I think it's important to make a good faith effort to exhaust all reasonable options before we start trying the more unreasonable ones.
posted by VTX at 6:39 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
And one more: "Neither Washington nor Moscow" was the losing left slogan during the Cold War, but it was the only one that didn't mean bowing and scraping to one empire or other.
posted by Frowner at 6:39 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 6:39 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
There is nothing Democrats can do about Healthcare. If they delay, McConnell will just delay the recess. It will also just piss off the moderate Republicans and push them to side with the crazies out of spite. There is nothing they can do. If Republicans can find 50 votes, it will pass. Democrats are not involved. This is not defeatism, it is math and circumstance.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:40 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:40 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Michael Winship/Billmoyers.com : June 9, 2017 - Comey Got in the Face of Trump’s ‘Godfather’ Fantasy - "The testimony of the fired FBI director revealed a president who sees himself more crime boss than chief executive."
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:42 AM on June 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:42 AM on June 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
My understanding is that right now Collins is a likely no (it's too conservative), and Rand Paul is a no (it's not conservative enough). So it's down to 50-50.
The Dems just need to peel off one more. It doesn't matter how. The most ways they can leave for Murkowski or Flake or somebody to find a way to bail, the better. It doesn't matter what it looks like. It only matters if it works.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:43 AM on June 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
The Dems just need to peel off one more. It doesn't matter how. The most ways they can leave for Murkowski or Flake or somebody to find a way to bail, the better. It doesn't matter what it looks like. It only matters if it works.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:43 AM on June 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
There is nothing Democrats can do about Healthcare. If they delay, McConnell will just delay the recess. It will also just piss off the moderate Republicans and push them to side with the crazies out of spite. There is nothing they can do. If Republicans can find 50 votes, it will pass. Democrats are not involved. This is not defeatism, it is math and circumstance.
Yeah, sorry, it's easy for you to say let's just fold our hands and give up. It can hardly affect you, can it?
They can fight because it is the right thing to do.
posted by winna at 6:46 AM on June 13, 2017 [46 favorites]
Yeah, sorry, it's easy for you to say let's just fold our hands and give up. It can hardly affect you, can it?
They can fight because it is the right thing to do.
posted by winna at 6:46 AM on June 13, 2017 [46 favorites]
Stone has gone from polezniye durak status to full-on Putinist
Oliver Riefenstone.
posted by progosk at 6:48 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oliver Riefenstone.
posted by progosk at 6:48 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
I think your analysis is pretty good, Frowner. It's some kind of weird thing that I've always experienced from certain portions of the left -- I suppose it's nothing more than the leftist version of seeing everything in black-and-white. It also reminds me of the opposite thing that I used to experience back in the Cold War days but recently have experienced a bit of during the run of the TV show The Americans. It's a corresponding insistence on always being sure to underscore that, really, the USSR are the "bad guys". It irritates me deeply. In both cases, like you, its not as if I'm unaware of all the horrendous shit that both the US and the USSR/Russia have done -- sometimes it feels to me like a lot of people who think of themselves as sophisticated and cynical are actually fairly devoid of imagination -- they can be clear-sighted to the point of deep cynicism about one government, but naive about another. This has always just baffled me. But, in the end, I think that what you allude to is really at the heart of much of this -- this is more about social identity, about affiliation signaling. That's the only way I've been able to make sense of it.
But, also, yeah, it's deeply perverse when American leftists are reflexively defending Russia now when it's largely the exact opposite of Soviet ideals (if not, necessarily, practice). In practice, there were pogroms and ethnic cleasing (which, at the time, many western leftists were blind to), but in principle, which appealed to the left, the USSR officially opposed such thinking.
And not to just ramble on, but this reminds me of how many conservatives and members of the GOP are reacting to Trump. This whole thing about Trump being exonerated by Comey's testimony and therefore the investigation has concluded that there's nothing there to worry about .... that just baffles me to the point of fury. Because I'm not really baffled, I feel like this is either extremely deliberate obtuseness or, worse in a way, some deeply screwed-up way of understanding the world where everything reduces to a single soundbite (did Trump personally collude with the Russians?) rather than looking for widespread, burgeoning threats to western democracies. I'm feeling pretty hopeless lately -- I wouldn't have expected to see this reaction to Comey's testimony from the right. I should have anticipated it, I am pretty cynical. But this whole election and Presidency has been an exercise in teaching me and others that things can always be worse than you think they can reasonably be.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:49 AM on June 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
But, also, yeah, it's deeply perverse when American leftists are reflexively defending Russia now when it's largely the exact opposite of Soviet ideals (if not, necessarily, practice). In practice, there were pogroms and ethnic cleasing (which, at the time, many western leftists were blind to), but in principle, which appealed to the left, the USSR officially opposed such thinking.
And not to just ramble on, but this reminds me of how many conservatives and members of the GOP are reacting to Trump. This whole thing about Trump being exonerated by Comey's testimony and therefore the investigation has concluded that there's nothing there to worry about .... that just baffles me to the point of fury. Because I'm not really baffled, I feel like this is either extremely deliberate obtuseness or, worse in a way, some deeply screwed-up way of understanding the world where everything reduces to a single soundbite (did Trump personally collude with the Russians?) rather than looking for widespread, burgeoning threats to western democracies. I'm feeling pretty hopeless lately -- I wouldn't have expected to see this reaction to Comey's testimony from the right. I should have anticipated it, I am pretty cynical. But this whole election and Presidency has been an exercise in teaching me and others that things can always be worse than you think they can reasonably be.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:49 AM on June 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
It will also just piss off the moderate Republicans and push them to side with the crazies out of spite.
"Moderate Republicans" always seem to find an excuse. So I don't care anymore what might "push" or "piss off" these so-called moderate Republicans, because they don't care whether I'm actually doing anything.
Excuse, not a reason. It's the motto of the 2017 GOP.
posted by Etrigan at 6:50 AM on June 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Moderate Republicans" always seem to find an excuse. So I don't care anymore what might "push" or "piss off" these so-called moderate Republicans, because they don't care whether I'm actually doing anything.
Excuse, not a reason. It's the motto of the 2017 GOP.
posted by Etrigan at 6:50 AM on June 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Seb Gorka.
Yes, Sebastian v. Gorka. I dug into him a few months ago. There is a lot of oddness and fog and the university (he is on leave from) is basically a sham ... in a 'earn a PhD like Gorka' way.
I've got nothing concrete but thought the connection between Ruddy being a friend of Trump and funding a project that included Gorka, who you have to wonder, why the fuck does he work in the White House ... and ... well ... it remains one of those odd things.
posted by phoque at 6:51 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes, Sebastian v. Gorka. I dug into him a few months ago. There is a lot of oddness and fog and the university (he is on leave from) is basically a sham ... in a 'earn a PhD like Gorka' way.
I've got nothing concrete but thought the connection between Ruddy being a friend of Trump and funding a project that included Gorka, who you have to wonder, why the fuck does he work in the White House ... and ... well ... it remains one of those odd things.
posted by phoque at 6:51 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
The insistency of Ruddy's involvement points towards some form of complicity. Get out your strings!
posted by mumimor at 6:53 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 6:53 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
To add to Frowner's Russia discussion above: Alt-leftists in the "stop talking about Russia, the REAL enemy is actually still Hillary Clinton" vein of HA Goodman or Caitlyn Johnstone (or apparently Oliver Stone) are this close to putting on MAGA caps.
A significant proportion of their fanbase are in fact open Trump supporters, but the many Bernie/Stein people who follow them should also not be trusted or relied upon as allies. If things really go south here, like machine-gunning protesters south, half of them will happily join the fascists: Shame Theory doesn't just apply to self-identified Republicans and in the darker future timelines, these will be some of he most dangerous people to have associated with.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:54 AM on June 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
A significant proportion of their fanbase are in fact open Trump supporters, but the many Bernie/Stein people who follow them should also not be trusted or relied upon as allies. If things really go south here, like machine-gunning protesters south, half of them will happily join the fascists: Shame Theory doesn't just apply to self-identified Republicans and in the darker future timelines, these will be some of he most dangerous people to have associated with.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:54 AM on June 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Have the Penguins come out and said anything about going/not going to the White House?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:55 AM on June 13, 2017
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:55 AM on June 13, 2017
> Have the Penguins come out and said anything about going/not going to the White House?
1. Less than half of the roster was born in the US.
2. Hockey players as a rule are far less willing to rock the boat over politics. There are exceptions, but most of the players are notoriously boring interviews.
3. While the city of Pittsburgh is a blue stronghold, things get very purple and red within a 10-15 mile drive, so not showing up would alienate a lot of the fan base. I've seen more than my share of vehicles with both Trump and Penguins decals around here.
I would expect a majority of the team to show up, smile politely, and shake President Pence's hand.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:06 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
1. Less than half of the roster was born in the US.
2. Hockey players as a rule are far less willing to rock the boat over politics. There are exceptions, but most of the players are notoriously boring interviews.
3. While the city of Pittsburgh is a blue stronghold, things get very purple and red within a 10-15 mile drive, so not showing up would alienate a lot of the fan base. I've seen more than my share of vehicles with both Trump and Penguins decals around here.
I would expect a majority of the team to show up, smile politely, and shake President Pence's hand.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:06 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
There is nothing Democrats can do about Healthcare. If they delay, McConnell will just delay the recess. It will also just piss off the moderate Republicans and push them to side with the crazies out of spite. There is nothing they can do. If Republicans can find 50 votes, it will pass. Democrats are not involved. This is not defeatism, it is math and circumstance.
The 300 Spartans also lost due to math and circumstance but their defeat had strategic importance as both inspiration and delay.
posted by srboisvert at 7:06 AM on June 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
The 300 Spartans also lost due to math and circumstance but their defeat had strategic importance as both inspiration and delay.
posted by srboisvert at 7:06 AM on June 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
A significant proportion of their fanbase are in fact open Trump supporters, but the many Bernie/Stein people who follow them should also not be trusted or relied upon as allies. If things really go south here, like machine-gunning protesters south, half of them will happily join the fascists
In Europe, a significant part of the radical or far right are former radical leftists and flow is still ongoing. But I guess it also has a history in the US, with the neocons some of who were originally trotskyists.
posted by mumimor at 7:07 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
In Europe, a significant part of the radical or far right are former radical leftists and flow is still ongoing. But I guess it also has a history in the US, with the neocons some of who were originally trotskyists.
posted by mumimor at 7:07 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
The 300 Spartans also lost due to math and circumstance but their defeat had strategic importance as both inspiration and delay.
Sometimes you fight to show you still have fight left in you.
posted by drezdn at 7:10 AM on June 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
Sometimes you fight to show you still have fight left in you.
posted by drezdn at 7:10 AM on June 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
Rosenstein is currently testifying.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:10 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:10 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait, people aren't really using Oliver Stone as an example of someone on the left are they? I mean Stone's big interest is his own big ideas, not crazy little details like facts. He's a Maherist in that sense, mostly interested in a few pet notions and in proving his "common sense" is of greater importance than any group values. Of course he likes Putin, they share a deep abiding interest in their own importance. Putin's just a lot more successful at getting others to agree with him on it.
posted by gusottertrout at 7:13 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 7:13 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
The 300 Spartans also lost due to math and circumstance but their defeat had strategic importance as both inspiration and delay.
Sometimes you fight to show you still have fight left in you.
Exactly. Even in defeat, showing the fired-up, angry base that they're fighting tooth and nail for them is not only the morally right thing to do, it's the politically smart thing to do.
posted by chris24 at 7:13 AM on June 13, 2017 [36 favorites]
Sometimes you fight to show you still have fight left in you.
Exactly. Even in defeat, showing the fired-up, angry base that they're fighting tooth and nail for them is not only the morally right thing to do, it's the politically smart thing to do.
posted by chris24 at 7:13 AM on June 13, 2017 [36 favorites]
It will also just piss off the moderate Republicans and push them to side with the crazies out of spite.
Look, there are no "moderate Republicans" anymore. Not in Congress, not in the state legislatures and governor's mansions, not in the press, and not among the citizens. If you think someone's a "moderate Republican," ask them a series of questions. Are they still in favor of Kansas-style economics? Do they still believe the government's responsibility to its citizens' food and clean water is that it should be considered a privilege and not a right? Are they still under the impression that being LGBTQ or a women's health and choice is a "states' rights" decision? Do they still oppose universal health care? Do they still want voter suppression laws and thing Shelby v Holder was a good decision? Are they still concerned about "religious freedom" when it is essentially the freedom to discriminate?
If they support most or all of those things, they're already siding with the crazies. Massive, overwhelming amounts of evidence refutes every single one of those those beliefs. That they choose to support it because of a dedication to a perverse, viciously bigoted ideology in the face of that evidence is a sign of a deep and disturbing set of character flaws. And if they continue to weep and rend their garments about how "the left won't meet us halfway" (the halfway point having long ago been moved to the extreme right) and "both sides do it," that just shows their dedication to being spiteful.
Now, if they don't support most of those things, they should be changing their party registration, as there's no point in trying to fix the GOP anymore. It's long past time to pull up stakes and marginalize it as a political force. They don't have to become Democrats, but it might help in the long run to both position them as the right and a new leftist party to take their place.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:15 AM on June 13, 2017 [44 favorites]
Look, there are no "moderate Republicans" anymore. Not in Congress, not in the state legislatures and governor's mansions, not in the press, and not among the citizens. If you think someone's a "moderate Republican," ask them a series of questions. Are they still in favor of Kansas-style economics? Do they still believe the government's responsibility to its citizens' food and clean water is that it should be considered a privilege and not a right? Are they still under the impression that being LGBTQ or a women's health and choice is a "states' rights" decision? Do they still oppose universal health care? Do they still want voter suppression laws and thing Shelby v Holder was a good decision? Are they still concerned about "religious freedom" when it is essentially the freedom to discriminate?
If they support most or all of those things, they're already siding with the crazies. Massive, overwhelming amounts of evidence refutes every single one of those those beliefs. That they choose to support it because of a dedication to a perverse, viciously bigoted ideology in the face of that evidence is a sign of a deep and disturbing set of character flaws. And if they continue to weep and rend their garments about how "the left won't meet us halfway" (the halfway point having long ago been moved to the extreme right) and "both sides do it," that just shows their dedication to being spiteful.
Now, if they don't support most of those things, they should be changing their party registration, as there's no point in trying to fix the GOP anymore. It's long past time to pull up stakes and marginalize it as a political force. They don't have to become Democrats, but it might help in the long run to both position them as the right and a new leftist party to take their place.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:15 AM on June 13, 2017 [44 favorites]
The 300 Spartans also lost due to math and circumstance but their defeat had strategic importance as both inspiration and delay.
They also died to protect an incredibly brutal, warlike, authoritarian state (that enshrined the murder and terrorizing of the slave class via secret police) against a tolerant, multicultural, cosmopolitan empire that might not even have had slavery. So maybe the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is a better comparison?
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:18 AM on June 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
They also died to protect an incredibly brutal, warlike, authoritarian state (that enshrined the murder and terrorizing of the slave class via secret police) against a tolerant, multicultural, cosmopolitan empire that might not even have had slavery. So maybe the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is a better comparison?
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:18 AM on June 13, 2017 [16 favorites]
US Ambassador to Qatar has resigned days after Trump renewed attacking the country, which undercut State Dept attempt to calm tensions (John Harwood, CNBC)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:20 AM on June 13, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:20 AM on June 13, 2017 [39 favorites]
Seb Gorka
Some weeks ago on the BBC Worldservice's NewsHour, the presenter Owen Bennett-Jones interviewed Gorka. Introduced him without the "Doctor" which must have irritated Gorka no end. He came across as even more arrogant, condescending, haughty, patronizing than usual. Bennett-Jones, who is much accomplished (cv here), remained remarkably civil and good humoured. At the end of the interview, our man Owen reminded his radio audience they had just been listening to "Seb Gorka".
Touché !
posted by Mister Bijou at 7:22 AM on June 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Some weeks ago on the BBC Worldservice's NewsHour, the presenter Owen Bennett-Jones interviewed Gorka. Introduced him without the "Doctor" which must have irritated Gorka no end. He came across as even more arrogant, condescending, haughty, patronizing than usual. Bennett-Jones, who is much accomplished (cv here), remained remarkably civil and good humoured. At the end of the interview, our man Owen reminded his radio audience they had just been listening to "Seb Gorka".
Touché !
posted by Mister Bijou at 7:22 AM on June 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Dana Shell Smith (now ex-ambassador to Qatar) published this in 2015: "Perhaps the most important lesson after my first months of engagement with Qataris is that US-Qatar relations are poised to enter an unprecedented period of growth and development."
posted by PenDevil at 7:27 AM on June 13, 2017
posted by PenDevil at 7:27 AM on June 13, 2017
It is unbelievably frustrating that constituents have to put in this much effort to make Democrats in Congress do anything more than lazily wave at the Trump agenda as it sails past them. It's one thing to fight the Republicans in Congress, who you expect to oppose on basically everything, but to have to cause a public outcry to overcome Democratic Senators' utter defeatism, general sense that they'd better not make a fuss, and apparent idea that maybe things won't be so bad if Ryan and McConnell get everything they want is almost worse. People are crying out by the millions for any solidarity from people in power, and it feels like the only message they're getting is that none of this is really that worth fighting for, so suck it up and move on.
posted by Copronymus at 7:31 AM on June 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 7:31 AM on June 13, 2017 [33 favorites]
Look, there are no "moderate Republicans" anymore.
If this was true they would already have passed a bill. I don't mean "moderate" compared to us. I mean moderate compared to Ted Cruz or Rand Paul. There is actual disagreement in the Republican caucus and it's not totally certain that they will get to 50 votes. But if Democrats declare war on the bill, the Republican base will get fired up regardless of whats in it. The bill could have a provision for killing puppies or even mandatory flag burning, and if the Democrats shut down the senate against it then all the low info voters who vote R will instantly believe that it was the best bill ever written.
If on the other hand, Democrats just sort of get out of the way, and let them pass a stupid and destructive bill while saying, "we can't stop you, it's your thing, I don't like it, but IT'S YOUR THING" then it would have to stand on its own merit instead of being "RAR RAR LIBERAL TEARS!!!"
But that's just my two cents. Fight the good fight. Whatever the Senate passes has to be agreed to in the House again.
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:32 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
If this was true they would already have passed a bill. I don't mean "moderate" compared to us. I mean moderate compared to Ted Cruz or Rand Paul. There is actual disagreement in the Republican caucus and it's not totally certain that they will get to 50 votes. But if Democrats declare war on the bill, the Republican base will get fired up regardless of whats in it. The bill could have a provision for killing puppies or even mandatory flag burning, and if the Democrats shut down the senate against it then all the low info voters who vote R will instantly believe that it was the best bill ever written.
If on the other hand, Democrats just sort of get out of the way, and let them pass a stupid and destructive bill while saying, "we can't stop you, it's your thing, I don't like it, but IT'S YOUR THING" then it would have to stand on its own merit instead of being "RAR RAR LIBERAL TEARS!!!"
But that's just my two cents. Fight the good fight. Whatever the Senate passes has to be agreed to in the House again.
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:32 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Rand Paul is a no (it's not conservative enough)
As a Kentucky voter, the fact that Rand Paul is soft in entirely the wrong direction confuses me. Calling McConnell's office is presumably a waste of time, but if I call Paul to register opposition to AHCA and the reasons for that opposition, is that actually counterproductive? Like, would it push him more towards approving of it if he hears from a lot of voters about how antiprogressive it is?
posted by jackbishop at 7:33 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
As a Kentucky voter, the fact that Rand Paul is soft in entirely the wrong direction confuses me. Calling McConnell's office is presumably a waste of time, but if I call Paul to register opposition to AHCA and the reasons for that opposition, is that actually counterproductive? Like, would it push him more towards approving of it if he hears from a lot of voters about how antiprogressive it is?
posted by jackbishop at 7:33 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
There is nothing Democrats can do about Healthcare. If they delay, McConnell will just delay the recess.
So, then I think they should do this. If McConnell delays the recess that can drive some more media coverage and constituents can make some more noise. The healthcare issue is being drowned out by the smoke and fire around the potential impeachment scandals.
posted by puddledork at 7:35 AM on June 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
So, then I think they should do this. If McConnell delays the recess that can drive some more media coverage and constituents can make some more noise. The healthcare issue is being drowned out by the smoke and fire around the potential impeachment scandals.
posted by puddledork at 7:35 AM on June 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Hey, Rick Wilson, tell us how you really feel. Don't hold back, now. This is a safe space.
(Featuring the term "Trump Juche" lolsob)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:37 AM on June 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
(Featuring the term "Trump Juche" lolsob)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:37 AM on June 13, 2017 [15 favorites]
Calling McConnell's office is presumably a waste of time, but if I call Paul to register opposition to AHCA and the reasons for that opposition, is that actually counterproductive? Like, would it push him more towards approving of it if he hears from a lot of voters about how antiprogressive it is?
I can't think of anything Rand Paul cares less about than the people of Kentucky. He came in as a national candidate with no real local base, won because of the 'R' after his name, immediately started running for President, and has never once shown interest in local issues over his own brand of libertarian contrarianism.
Sure, call and tell him to vote against it for whatever reason he might like to hear, but don't confuse that with him actually listening to Kentuckians.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 AM on June 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
I can't think of anything Rand Paul cares less about than the people of Kentucky. He came in as a national candidate with no real local base, won because of the 'R' after his name, immediately started running for President, and has never once shown interest in local issues over his own brand of libertarian contrarianism.
Sure, call and tell him to vote against it for whatever reason he might like to hear, but don't confuse that with him actually listening to Kentuckians.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 AM on June 13, 2017 [8 favorites]
As a Kentucky voter, the fact that Rand Paul is soft in entirely the wrong direction confuses me. Calling McConnell's office is presumably a waste of time, but if I call Paul to register opposition to AHCA and the reasons for that opposition, is that actually counterproductive? Like, would it push him more towards approving of it if he hears from a lot of voters about how antiprogressive it is?
You don't have to give reasons. Or you can give reasons that are consistent with their beliefs.
I'm in Indiana. I called my Republican senator, Todd Young's office. I politely expressed concerns about the lack of transparency and public scrutiny, I thanked him for his service (he's a vet), gave my name and address, and got off the phone.
Easy peasy, and framed in a manner that I think makes more impact.
When I called my Congresswoman, Susan Brooks, about the ethics issues (she's on the House Committee on Ethics) that came up at the beginning of the this Congressional session, I spoke as an concerned attorney to a former US Attorney "who I know values professional ethics highly". I don't know if made a difference, but I think that framing couldn't have hurt (she flipped on the ethics stuff, btw).
posted by leotrotsky at 7:39 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
You don't have to give reasons. Or you can give reasons that are consistent with their beliefs.
I'm in Indiana. I called my Republican senator, Todd Young's office. I politely expressed concerns about the lack of transparency and public scrutiny, I thanked him for his service (he's a vet), gave my name and address, and got off the phone.
Easy peasy, and framed in a manner that I think makes more impact.
When I called my Congresswoman, Susan Brooks, about the ethics issues (she's on the House Committee on Ethics) that came up at the beginning of the this Congressional session, I spoke as an concerned attorney to a former US Attorney "who I know values professional ethics highly". I don't know if made a difference, but I think that framing couldn't have hurt (she flipped on the ethics stuff, btw).
posted by leotrotsky at 7:39 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
I mean moderate compared to Ted Cruz or Rand Paul.
It's a yes or no decision -- kill 24+ million people or don't do that. There are no varying degrees of "I voted to kill 24+ million people but I felt really bad about it you guyzzzzzzzz."
If they want to be moderate, they can vote no, they can prevent it coming to the floor, they can resign from their party, they can caucus with the Dems. I don't care that Ted Cruz is more evil, killing 24 million people because they're poor or disabled is evil enough.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:40 AM on June 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
It's a yes or no decision -- kill 24+ million people or don't do that. There are no varying degrees of "I voted to kill 24+ million people but I felt really bad about it you guyzzzzzzzz."
If they want to be moderate, they can vote no, they can prevent it coming to the floor, they can resign from their party, they can caucus with the Dems. I don't care that Ted Cruz is more evil, killing 24 million people because they're poor or disabled is evil enough.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:40 AM on June 13, 2017 [31 favorites]
In re Republicans: Trump will always be the "lesser evil". Similarly, we urged people to vote - if they didn't like Hillary - for the lesser evil, since Trump was so awful. For those of us who were meh on Hillary, we thought "hm, this may not be perfect, but at least we'll have healthcare! And maybe shore up social security and medicare! The alternative is disaster!"
And because of a deep-seated difference in values, for Republicans Trump will always be the lesser evil. Government assistance on healthcare, taxing the rich, providing a social safety net that includes immigrants and people of color, maybe not making abortion and birth control totally illegal, etc will always be greater evils than anything Trump can do, possibly short of full-scale nuclear exchange.
That's the thing - they may not like Trump. They may think he's corrupt or stupid or irretrievably damaging US prestige. He may not be popular. But to Republicans, the other things are worse. Living in a diminished America in greater poverty and precarity will be bad - it's not that they think this is actively good. It's that the choice is either Trumpocalypse or taxing the rich, and that they will not do.
I mean, it's not that they're like "shitty infrastructure, social security cuts and no medicaid sound great!" it's that they're "the price for not taxing the rich and not providing social services is shitty infrastructure, etc, and that is a price we reluctantly pay."
It's a values divide. Fascism is about values. It rests on a bedrock of political and economic conditions but it is fundamentally about affect and values. You can change people's values, but it takes a long time and a lot of suasion, and we don't really have a lot of time.
posted by Frowner at 7:45 AM on June 13, 2017 [39 favorites]
And because of a deep-seated difference in values, for Republicans Trump will always be the lesser evil. Government assistance on healthcare, taxing the rich, providing a social safety net that includes immigrants and people of color, maybe not making abortion and birth control totally illegal, etc will always be greater evils than anything Trump can do, possibly short of full-scale nuclear exchange.
That's the thing - they may not like Trump. They may think he's corrupt or stupid or irretrievably damaging US prestige. He may not be popular. But to Republicans, the other things are worse. Living in a diminished America in greater poverty and precarity will be bad - it's not that they think this is actively good. It's that the choice is either Trumpocalypse or taxing the rich, and that they will not do.
I mean, it's not that they're like "shitty infrastructure, social security cuts and no medicaid sound great!" it's that they're "the price for not taxing the rich and not providing social services is shitty infrastructure, etc, and that is a price we reluctantly pay."
It's a values divide. Fascism is about values. It rests on a bedrock of political and economic conditions but it is fundamentally about affect and values. You can change people's values, but it takes a long time and a lot of suasion, and we don't really have a lot of time.
posted by Frowner at 7:45 AM on June 13, 2017 [39 favorites]
It's a yes or no decision -- kill 24+ million people or don't do that.
We haven't seen the bill. We don't know what it says or does yet.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:46 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
We haven't seen the bill. We don't know what it says or does yet.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:46 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
You're right, it could actually be Medicare for All paid for through progressive taxation and a high estate tax. We have no way of knowing.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:48 AM on June 13, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 7:48 AM on June 13, 2017 [37 favorites]
Is anyone working on a new post? We're up to almost 3k posts. If not, I'll put one together for the upcoming Sessions Session.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:49 AM on June 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:49 AM on June 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
And because of a deep-seated difference in values, for Republicans Trump will always be the lesser evil. Government assistance on healthcare, taxing the rich.. will always be greater evils than anything Trump can do, possibly short of full-scale nuclear exchange.
I used to assume that being a literal traitor would be considered a greater evil by Republicans. I was so naive.
posted by diogenes at 7:51 AM on June 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
I used to assume that being a literal traitor would be considered a greater evil by Republicans. I was so naive.
posted by diogenes at 7:51 AM on June 13, 2017 [20 favorites]
Adam Schiff walking back his statements from yesterday: “My expectation would be that this would be the last straw for Republicans — that they would finally have to stand up to the president,” Schiff told me. “Of course, that expectation has proved illusory in the past. So there’s no guarantee.”
...
“But with this president, who can say?” Republicans, Schiff added, “have shown a willingness to make excuses for the most destructive behavior of a president in office that I can remember.”
...
“We would probably take up a bill that would establish an independent counsel for the purposes of this investigation, and give the appointment power to legislative leaders who would appoint Bob Mueller,” Schiff said. “That’s what I hope and expect would happen. But you have to admit the possibility that Republicans, against all reason, would continue to serve as enablers of this president.”
That sounds to me like he hasn't had any discussion with Republicans and there's no change in the dynamic at all. He's hoping against all evidence they would come to their senses. That's it. It's "Surely this".
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:53 AM on June 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
...
“But with this president, who can say?” Republicans, Schiff added, “have shown a willingness to make excuses for the most destructive behavior of a president in office that I can remember.”
...
“We would probably take up a bill that would establish an independent counsel for the purposes of this investigation, and give the appointment power to legislative leaders who would appoint Bob Mueller,” Schiff said. “That’s what I hope and expect would happen. But you have to admit the possibility that Republicans, against all reason, would continue to serve as enablers of this president.”
That sounds to me like he hasn't had any discussion with Republicans and there's no change in the dynamic at all. He's hoping against all evidence they would come to their senses. That's it. It's "Surely this".
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:53 AM on June 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
> All of Trumpland was fine with Mueller investigating -- until the precise moment he added a money-laundering expert to the team.
Whatever else the sudden turn against Mueller means in Trumpland, it very clearly means one thing: They are scared.
Very scared.
That is a good thing . . .
posted by flug at 7:54 AM on June 13, 2017 [25 favorites]
Whatever else the sudden turn against Mueller means in Trumpland, it very clearly means one thing: They are scared.
Very scared.
That is a good thing . . .
posted by flug at 7:54 AM on June 13, 2017 [25 favorites]
All of Trumpland was fine with Mueller investigating -- until the precise moment he added a money-laundering expert to the team.
Well, they acted like they were fine with it. Just long enough so they could say "Hey, I trusted this guy, but then he did a thing that I'm using as an excuse, like, um, something about FEC contributions, I guess? Anyway, the point is that I was a Reasonable, Serious, Moderate Republican at the beginning, and that means you have to take my misgivings seriously now."
posted by Etrigan at 7:57 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well, they acted like they were fine with it. Just long enough so they could say "Hey, I trusted this guy, but then he did a thing that I'm using as an excuse, like, um, something about FEC contributions, I guess? Anyway, the point is that I was a Reasonable, Serious, Moderate Republican at the beginning, and that means you have to take my misgivings seriously now."
posted by Etrigan at 7:57 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Tell Rand that you totally support his run in the 2020 Presidential primaries.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:00 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:00 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Me too diogenes. I've said this before, but I see the current R party as in the grips of a cult-like delusion, where eliminating taxes on the wealthy is the only thing that matters, the ultimate good, and accomplishing it will fulfill everyone's dreams and bring about a golden age. Meanwhile, any and all actions are justified in pursuit of that goal. Religion, patriotism, science, the rule of law, concern for the future, all of these are only useful while they further that goal, and the minute they get in the way, they're discarded.
It's hard to understand, because as beliefs go, eliminating taxes on the wealthy seems like such a boring, unromantic thing to wish for, unless you're wealthy. Which is why non-wealthy Rs are told repeatedly that doing so is the path to Heaven, the Heaven of the wrongly-remembered mythical America, when the right kind of people had it good and everyone else was kept in their places and the US reigned supreme in the world.
posted by emjaybee at 8:02 AM on June 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
It's hard to understand, because as beliefs go, eliminating taxes on the wealthy seems like such a boring, unromantic thing to wish for, unless you're wealthy. Which is why non-wealthy Rs are told repeatedly that doing so is the path to Heaven, the Heaven of the wrongly-remembered mythical America, when the right kind of people had it good and everyone else was kept in their places and the US reigned supreme in the world.
posted by emjaybee at 8:02 AM on June 13, 2017 [30 favorites]
The Man Behind Trump’s Voter Fraud Obsession
A chilling NYT piece on Kris Kobach
In a way it's all there, plain to see: white people scared of losing privilege. That is the whole story, but it includes that those people will do everything they can to keep their status and there is a lot of stuff inside that everything.
posted by mumimor at 8:13 AM on June 13, 2017 [38 favorites]
A chilling NYT piece on Kris Kobach
In a way it's all there, plain to see: white people scared of losing privilege. That is the whole story, but it includes that those people will do everything they can to keep their status and there is a lot of stuff inside that everything.
posted by mumimor at 8:13 AM on June 13, 2017 [38 favorites]
I and my browser thank anyone working on a new thread.
posted by greermahoney at 8:16 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 8:16 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
I know it doesn't really mean anything but I just need to express out loud that as I learned more about Hillary Clinton over the course of the campaign, I grew to really like and admire her and I was really looking forward to having her as our President and I'm still really sad and depressed that she lost, not just because this fascist Nazi is in power but also because I think she would have been an incredible President.
posted by lazaruslong at 8:21 AM on June 13, 2017 [101 favorites]
posted by lazaruslong at 8:21 AM on June 13, 2017 [101 favorites]
> Gallup: Trump one point above worst all time approve/disapprove score (36/59)
And going down fast.
In the name of pessimism, it is worth reminding everyone that many presidents have had low approval ratings at various points in their tenures, and later recovered--even winning subsequent elections.
Clinton, Obama, and Reagan, for example, were all at or below 40% approval at some point in their first term. (See WSJ for some nice historical context giving the reasons for the highs & lows, and also 538s historical comparative charts--click the 4 & 8 year views for a bit more perspective.)
But each of those leaders did something to turn things around.
Just exactly what is Trump going to do to turn anything around?
One reason Republicans are so desperate to repeal Obamacare is because the Republicans have eaten their own dogfood and believe in their hearts that Obamacare repeal is going to be this massively popular thing.
They just might get a small boost from it, as they get to look like winners for a minute or two.
But long term, AHCA is clearly a huge bust for the Republicans, and the sooner it is in place the longer the voting public will have to absorb the horror before the next election.
Kicking 25 million off the health insurance rolls, slashing Medicaid, gutting extremely popular protections for pre-existing conditions--none of those things is going to bring out a joyful wave of thankful Republican voters in 2018 or 2020.
It is going to bring out a very different sort of wave, however--the sort that wants to vote the bums out.
And massive tax cuts for the very, very rich are not popular with the general voting populace, either, so that's unlikely to make up the difference . . .
posted by flug at 8:27 AM on June 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
And going down fast.
In the name of pessimism, it is worth reminding everyone that many presidents have had low approval ratings at various points in their tenures, and later recovered--even winning subsequent elections.
Clinton, Obama, and Reagan, for example, were all at or below 40% approval at some point in their first term. (See WSJ for some nice historical context giving the reasons for the highs & lows, and also 538s historical comparative charts--click the 4 & 8 year views for a bit more perspective.)
But each of those leaders did something to turn things around.
Just exactly what is Trump going to do to turn anything around?
One reason Republicans are so desperate to repeal Obamacare is because the Republicans have eaten their own dogfood and believe in their hearts that Obamacare repeal is going to be this massively popular thing.
They just might get a small boost from it, as they get to look like winners for a minute or two.
But long term, AHCA is clearly a huge bust for the Republicans, and the sooner it is in place the longer the voting public will have to absorb the horror before the next election.
Kicking 25 million off the health insurance rolls, slashing Medicaid, gutting extremely popular protections for pre-existing conditions--none of those things is going to bring out a joyful wave of thankful Republican voters in 2018 or 2020.
It is going to bring out a very different sort of wave, however--the sort that wants to vote the bums out.
And massive tax cuts for the very, very rich are not popular with the general voting populace, either, so that's unlikely to make up the difference . . .
posted by flug at 8:27 AM on June 13, 2017 [14 favorites]
It is going to bring out a very different sort of wave, however--the sort that wants to vote the bums out.
But maybe they're counting on the Russians to delete those votes.
I already called my laughably cruel and corrupt Senators in a hopeless attempt to get them to not vote for death and suffering for me and those I love.
Yeah, that's where I'm at today. Time to go outside and stop thinking about politics.
posted by emjaybee at 8:31 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
But maybe they're counting on the Russians to delete those votes.
I already called my laughably cruel and corrupt Senators in a hopeless attempt to get them to not vote for death and suffering for me and those I love.
Yeah, that's where I'm at today. Time to go outside and stop thinking about politics.
posted by emjaybee at 8:31 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump has blocked VoteVets and Stephen King from his twitter feed today.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:32 AM on June 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:32 AM on June 13, 2017 [23 favorites]
The new post is now live!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:32 AM on June 13, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:32 AM on June 13, 2017 [24 favorites]
It is *really weird* to watch Lindsey Graham ask direct, probing questions.
Ya, he's really a pretty smart guy, which is why it's so damned disappointing that he does the wrong thing so often.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:37 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Ya, he's really a pretty smart guy, which is why it's so damned disappointing that he does the wrong thing so often.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:37 AM on June 13, 2017 [11 favorites]
Adam Schiff walking back his statements from yesterday
Really disappointing, especially from a lawyer.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:41 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Really disappointing, especially from a lawyer.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:41 AM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
> And massive tax cuts for the very, very rich are not popular with the general voting populace...
And yet, here we are with the Republican Party controlling all three branches of American government. I've never understood the appeal of trickle-down economics to people who aren't rich, but then again I'm not a temporarily embarrassed millionaire.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:49 AM on June 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
And yet, here we are with the Republican Party controlling all three branches of American government. I've never understood the appeal of trickle-down economics to people who aren't rich, but then again I'm not a temporarily embarrassed millionaire.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:49 AM on June 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
A pretty smart guy
And a skilled lawyer. Huckleberry Hound is an act. See y'all in the new post.
posted by spitbull at 8:52 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
And a skilled lawyer. Huckleberry Hound is an act. See y'all in the new post.
posted by spitbull at 8:52 AM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
>> And massive tax cuts for the very, very rich are not popular with the general voting populace...
>And yet, here we are with the Republican Party controlling all three branches of American government. I've never understood the appeal of trickle-down economics to people who aren't rich, but then again I'm not a temporarily embarrassed millionaire.
Well, tax cuts for the very rich are very, very popular with the very rich, which leads to massive donations to politicians and parties who support the tax cuts for the rich, which leads to high-quality, high-volume propaganda directed towards susceptible voters on a variety of issues they are likely to sway them--not at all tax cuts for the very rich, but other issues like abortion, government overreach, whatever.
So there is a long & complex linkage between massive tax cuts for the very rich and votes for politicians who support those tax cuts.
But it is really not like, "Hey, I heard about this friend's cousin's sister's brother-in-law who saved $100K on his taxes due to TAX CUTS. I'm voting for THAT PARTY!!!1!!!"
It's quite a bit more indirect . . .
posted by flug at 9:03 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
>And yet, here we are with the Republican Party controlling all three branches of American government. I've never understood the appeal of trickle-down economics to people who aren't rich, but then again I'm not a temporarily embarrassed millionaire.
Well, tax cuts for the very rich are very, very popular with the very rich, which leads to massive donations to politicians and parties who support the tax cuts for the rich, which leads to high-quality, high-volume propaganda directed towards susceptible voters on a variety of issues they are likely to sway them--not at all tax cuts for the very rich, but other issues like abortion, government overreach, whatever.
So there is a long & complex linkage between massive tax cuts for the very rich and votes for politicians who support those tax cuts.
But it is really not like, "Hey, I heard about this friend's cousin's sister's brother-in-law who saved $100K on his taxes due to TAX CUTS. I'm voting for THAT PARTY!!!1!!!"
It's quite a bit more indirect . . .
posted by flug at 9:03 AM on June 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Frowner -- what is weird to me about the sudden love for Putin and leftist weirdness about Russia is it was only a year or two ago everybody in the U.S. had heard of Pussy Riot and we were all into these great brave Russians who were standing up to Putin and oppressive laws and getting assaulted and arrested and jailed for their trouble. they were pretty famous here for a bit and it was well understood that they were being brave and political in ways that feminist art punks in other countries aren't, necessarily, because of Putin and how awful he is.
and by "everybody" I of course mean everybody who doesn't think feminists and women are dumb no matter what. still though. did everyone forget all about that?
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:28 AM on June 13, 2017 [26 favorites]
and by "everybody" I of course mean everybody who doesn't think feminists and women are dumb no matter what. still though. did everyone forget all about that?
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:28 AM on June 13, 2017 [26 favorites]
flug They just might get a small boost from it, as they get to look like winners for a minute or two.
Kicking 25 million off the health insurance rolls, slashing Medicaid, gutting extremely popular protections for pre-existing conditions--none of those things is going to bring out a joyful wave of thankful Republican voters in 2018 or 2020.
That's why all the proposals they've been making push any actual implementation of the stuff that hurts until after 2020. They're planning on getting a huge boost for having "killed the evil, job destroying, Obamacare before it implodes", everyone continuing to benefit from Obamacare while they take credit for its destruction, and then in 2020 they're planning to blame the pain of their plan eventually coming to its fruition on the Democrats.
posted by sotonohito at 9:39 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Kicking 25 million off the health insurance rolls, slashing Medicaid, gutting extremely popular protections for pre-existing conditions--none of those things is going to bring out a joyful wave of thankful Republican voters in 2018 or 2020.
That's why all the proposals they've been making push any actual implementation of the stuff that hurts until after 2020. They're planning on getting a huge boost for having "killed the evil, job destroying, Obamacare before it implodes", everyone continuing to benefit from Obamacare while they take credit for its destruction, and then in 2020 they're planning to blame the pain of their plan eventually coming to its fruition on the Democrats.
posted by sotonohito at 9:39 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
- what is weird to me about the sudden love for Putin and leftist weirdness about Russia is it was only a year or two ago everybody in the U.S. had heard of Pussy Riot and we were all into these great brave Russians who were standing up to Putin and oppressive laws and getting assaulted and arrested and jailed for their trouble.
1. Misogyny!!! I mean, Putin is only, like, sexist and homophobic, that's not very important. If there was nothing else to get wrought up about, I guess it was okay to care about protesters, but now that real things are on the table it's time to return to the condition of straight men.
2. Slight differences in subcultures. My guess is that the Bernie left evolved out of a mixture of old Occupy, old Indymedia, sorta-Gamergate and other internet-heavy social formations that did not, historically, have strong feminist involvement. That's not to say that there were no women in Occupy or Indymedia, but IME they did not foreground feminism or women's organizing. (This was particularly my experience with Indymedia.) It's not so much that OMG everyone is awful, but that the people setting the agenda were either mostly feminism-agnostic or feminism hostile.
2.5. The left-left got a lot more traction this election, both as the Bernie left and the left wing of Hillary voters. This is good, in general, but the left-left is very US-centric and therefore the conditions in other countries among ordinary people are not particularly interesting, also the left-left doesn't have any reason not to be all Heroes and Villains.
3. Pussy Riot got too popular with the wrong people - no longer punk enough, too well known, one of them made some kind of liberal political error, etc. Ergo, women's issues in Russia are totally discredited concerns, because you know, when women aren't perfect representatives of your cause (for whatever values of perfect) they are basically garbage.
4. One big shuffle - the huge political realignment that we're in the midst of. Everything is reconstituting and causes that used to go together no longer do. Bumpy ride, etc.
And, of course, I'm reminded of "The Women Men Don't See", an unfortunately prescient story. I've been waiting for the alien graduate students for the past few years myself.
"The lib?" Impatiently she leans forward and tugs the serape straight. "Oh, that's
doomed."
The apocalyptic word jars my attention.
"What do you mean, doomed?"
She glances at me as if I weren't hanging straight either and says vaguely, "Oh …"
"Come on, why doomed? Didn't they get that equal rights bill?"
Long hesitation. When she speaks again her voice is different.
"Women have no rights, Don, except what men allow us. Men are more
aggressive and powerful, and they run the world. When the next real crisis upsets
them, our so-called rights will vanish like—like that smoke. We'll be back where
we always were: property. And whatever has gone wrong will be blamed on our
freedom, like the fall of Rome was. You'll see."
If there's one thing upon which the left and the right can always agree, it's that women-qua-women are to blame. Not individual women, or social forces, but women being selfish/bad/too liberal/too demanding/whatever. Individual women, provided they shut up and are either young, feisty and attractive or older, quiet and maternal, can really brighten up a movement.
posted by Frowner at 9:44 AM on June 13, 2017 [47 favorites]
1. Misogyny!!! I mean, Putin is only, like, sexist and homophobic, that's not very important. If there was nothing else to get wrought up about, I guess it was okay to care about protesters, but now that real things are on the table it's time to return to the condition of straight men.
2. Slight differences in subcultures. My guess is that the Bernie left evolved out of a mixture of old Occupy, old Indymedia, sorta-Gamergate and other internet-heavy social formations that did not, historically, have strong feminist involvement. That's not to say that there were no women in Occupy or Indymedia, but IME they did not foreground feminism or women's organizing. (This was particularly my experience with Indymedia.) It's not so much that OMG everyone is awful, but that the people setting the agenda were either mostly feminism-agnostic or feminism hostile.
2.5. The left-left got a lot more traction this election, both as the Bernie left and the left wing of Hillary voters. This is good, in general, but the left-left is very US-centric and therefore the conditions in other countries among ordinary people are not particularly interesting, also the left-left doesn't have any reason not to be all Heroes and Villains.
3. Pussy Riot got too popular with the wrong people - no longer punk enough, too well known, one of them made some kind of liberal political error, etc. Ergo, women's issues in Russia are totally discredited concerns, because you know, when women aren't perfect representatives of your cause (for whatever values of perfect) they are basically garbage.
4. One big shuffle - the huge political realignment that we're in the midst of. Everything is reconstituting and causes that used to go together no longer do. Bumpy ride, etc.
And, of course, I'm reminded of "The Women Men Don't See", an unfortunately prescient story. I've been waiting for the alien graduate students for the past few years myself.
"The lib?" Impatiently she leans forward and tugs the serape straight. "Oh, that's
doomed."
The apocalyptic word jars my attention.
"What do you mean, doomed?"
She glances at me as if I weren't hanging straight either and says vaguely, "Oh …"
"Come on, why doomed? Didn't they get that equal rights bill?"
Long hesitation. When she speaks again her voice is different.
"Women have no rights, Don, except what men allow us. Men are more
aggressive and powerful, and they run the world. When the next real crisis upsets
them, our so-called rights will vanish like—like that smoke. We'll be back where
we always were: property. And whatever has gone wrong will be blamed on our
freedom, like the fall of Rome was. You'll see."
If there's one thing upon which the left and the right can always agree, it's that women-qua-women are to blame. Not individual women, or social forces, but women being selfish/bad/too liberal/too demanding/whatever. Individual women, provided they shut up and are either young, feisty and attractive or older, quiet and maternal, can really brighten up a movement.
posted by Frowner at 9:44 AM on June 13, 2017 [47 favorites]
Or, as we saw earlier with the abortion debate in these threads, give Progressives and Leftists a chance to throw women and GLBTQ people under the bus, and they will do so faster than you can say "Hey, it's for the Cause, maaaaan."
posted by happyroach at 10:11 AM on June 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 10:11 AM on June 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Or, as we saw earlier with the abortion debate in these threads, give Progressives and Leftists a chance to throw women and GLBTQ people under the bus, and they will do so faster than you can say "Hey, it's for the Cause, maaaaan."
Case in point: today's VA Democratic gubernatorial primary, where the progressive flagbearer supported a bill that would have gone further in restricting federal funding of abortion than the Hyde Amendment.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:28 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Case in point: today's VA Democratic gubernatorial primary, where the progressive flagbearer supported a bill that would have gone further in restricting federal funding of abortion than the Hyde Amendment.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:28 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
-- Playbook: GOP sees House at risk in 2018.
The House is everything at this point -- the ability to impeach, the ability to block destructive legislation both through committee actions as well as actual floor votes, and perhaps most importantly, leadership of investigative committees (including subpoena power).
Opposition to Trump should be 100% focused on winning House seats -- recruiting strong candidates in every single district in the US, linking Republican candidates to Trump wherever possible, on the record, voter turnout and registration drives. Reforms like Motor Voter are crucial even in blue states -- picking up an extra seat in New York State or Massachusetts helps Dems every bit as much as a seat in Alabama, and is probably a lot easier to achieve.
posted by msalt at 10:43 AM on June 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
The House is everything at this point -- the ability to impeach, the ability to block destructive legislation both through committee actions as well as actual floor votes, and perhaps most importantly, leadership of investigative committees (including subpoena power).
Opposition to Trump should be 100% focused on winning House seats -- recruiting strong candidates in every single district in the US, linking Republican candidates to Trump wherever possible, on the record, voter turnout and registration drives. Reforms like Motor Voter are crucial even in blue states -- picking up an extra seat in New York State or Massachusetts helps Dems every bit as much as a seat in Alabama, and is probably a lot easier to achieve.
posted by msalt at 10:43 AM on June 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Dems showing a willingness to be an actual opposition should be part of that though. None of that "vote for us, we're super bipartisan" shit.
posted by Artw at 11:23 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:23 AM on June 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
because the last link has fallen out of recent activity (*shakes fist*), new thread!
posted by R a c h e l at 11:26 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by R a c h e l at 11:26 AM on June 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Calling McConnell's office is presumably a waste of time, but if I call Paul to register opposition to AHCA and the reasons for that opposition, is that actually counterproductive?
Use my script:
--
Senator McConnell, I'm a constituent of yours in a tiny blue speck of a very red state, so you probably don't care what I think of your policies, but if one Kentuckian is denied healthcare coverage because of them, I will canvas, phonebank and donate to whomever primaries you from the right. Because no one is going to unseat the fabled Mitch McConnell, but a no-name republican very well may lose to a Steve Beshear, Jim Gray, or Alison Lundergan Grimes, who I will canvas, phonebank and donate to in the general.
Your call, Senator
--
Which is bullshit, of course - I'm not giving money to these idiots.
posted by eclectist at 12:32 PM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Use my script:
--
Senator McConnell, I'm a constituent of yours in a tiny blue speck of a very red state, so you probably don't care what I think of your policies, but if one Kentuckian is denied healthcare coverage because of them, I will canvas, phonebank and donate to whomever primaries you from the right. Because no one is going to unseat the fabled Mitch McConnell, but a no-name republican very well may lose to a Steve Beshear, Jim Gray, or Alison Lundergan Grimes, who I will canvas, phonebank and donate to in the general.
Your call, Senator
--
Which is bullshit, of course - I'm not giving money to these idiots.
posted by eclectist at 12:32 PM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Has Sessions been fired for pe... oh, everyone's gone.
posted by Yowser at 7:39 PM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 7:39 PM on June 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes.
posted by Artw at 9:00 PM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:00 PM on June 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
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