Unite the Right Descends on Charlottesville, Virginia
August 12, 2017 9:48 AM   Subscribe

On 11 August 2017, alt-right protesters surrounded counter-demonstrators standing in a ring around the Thomas Jefferson statue at UVA in Charlottesville, VA. This was a preamble to the main Unite the Right rally, taking place today. ACLU Virginia is present and posting updates via Twitter.

Working backwards, here's a timeline of events:
On August 12th, a judge ruled that the United the Right Rally could be held in its original locale --- the recently renamed Emancipation Park. On August 7th, the city attempted to move the event to the nearby McIntire park.

On July 27th several local businesses, residents, and the director of the public library wrote to the City Council asking them to reclassify the event as a Special Event rather than a demonstrations (PDF posted by the Daily Progress). This would have required the organizer, Jason Kessler, to meet additional requirements in order to hold the event. Several businesses stated their intent to close for the day.

On July 8th, the KKK held a rally in the also recently renamed Freedom Park in Charlottesville, VA. Several organizations asked City Council to investigate police response from this rally which included declaring the counterprotest an unlawful assembly, the presence of state police in riot gear, and the use of teargas.

On May 2nd, a Charlottesville judge granted a six month injunction against the city's planned removal of the Robert E Lee statue from what was then called Lee Park. The city’s decision to remove the statue (as well as the Stonewall Jackson statue) were based on a recommendation from a city commission --- the Blue Ribbon Commission on Race, Memorials and Public Spaces.

On June 5th, Charlottesville City Council voted to rename Lee Park and Jackson Park to Emancipation and Freedom Park.

In Slate, three University of Virginia PhD students, (Sophie Abramowitz, Eva Latterner, and Gillet Rosenblith) review what had happened to date (June 2017) and dig deeper into the historical and social context around the two statues erection and dedication.
posted by CMcG (2282 comments total) 115 users marked this as a favorite
 
I've been watching the Buzzfeed livestreams this morning and was in fact about to bring this here myself. I hope MeFites in Charlottesville are safe, and I'm scared and angry precisely because I can see this happening here in my own campus.

Bit of additional late-breaking news, cribbed from my nascent FPP:

An 'alt-right' rally expected to draw many hate groups by the name of Unite the Right was scheduled in Charlottesville's Emancipation Park today at 12pm. Tensions mounted in Charlottesville as the rally approached, particularly when white supremacists marched barefaced through the UVA campus last night while carrying lit torches. Today the governor has declared a state of emergency; the planned rally has been cancelled entirely and fighting is still taking place throughout Charlottesville.

While the University of Virginia president has released statements condemning the march and the riots today, students are angry because an email from UVA administration explicitly allowed the Unite the Right rally on grounds of free speech and encouraged students to ignore and avoid it.

Personally, I would be enraged by that letter, too. I've been contacting local police, governmental, and campus bodies this morning demanding a plan for what they intend to do if this happens in Austin, after a thoughtful tweet in my stream reminded me that there's action we can take in our local communities, too. Because it's not remotely outside the realm of possibility for this to happen here. I remember the open carry protests here at UT, when open carry assholes wanted to stage a "fake campus shooting" to be taken down by gun-wielding assholes as a demonstration, and I remember what my university did then: said "actually, you do not have the right to be here and demonstrate unless you are members of the campus community. if you come onto campus, we will have you arrested by campus police."

I want there to be an actual game plan here to handle this bullshit before it comes here. And I goddamn well want my university president, despite the short leash he's kept on by the state government, to do his best to keep the students safe which includes helping them stand up to bullies in their own fucking homes.
posted by sciatrix at 9:58 AM on August 12 [79 favorites]


"alt-right protesters"

We need to to call them what they are: white supremacists.

It was not an "alt-right protest," it was a neo-fascist, white supremacist march.
posted by standardasparagus at 10:13 AM on August 12 [242 favorites]


an email from UVA administration explicitly allowed the Unite the Right rally
sciatrix

I think you're confusing two events. The rally itself was supposed to take place today in Emancipation Park in downtown Charlottesville over which UVA has no control. It was the march last night that went through UVA's campus.
posted by Sangermaine at 10:16 AM on August 12 [7 favorites]


standardasparagus, I personally agree but was concerned that calling them Nazi (which is what I have heard them most commonly called in Cville) would be considered editorializing.
posted by CMcG at 10:17 AM on August 12 [2 favorites]


I have kazoos and slide whistles. Time to start carrying them.
posted by tilde at 10:19 AM on August 12 [4 favorites]


Alt-right watcher JJ MacNab (of the Bundy stand-off and Oregon occupation fame) has probably the best Twitter list going for live reporting on the ground
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:20 AM on August 12 [7 favorites]


> was concerned that calling them Nazi [...] would be considered editorializing.

Tell me more about how political correctness is destroying America
posted by farlukar at 10:22 AM on August 12 [40 favorites]


I, too, wish we would stop using their framing of alt-right, and go back to White supremacist. I know it's longer and clunkier, but fuck no, they don't get to reframe what they are. We let "pro-lifers" do that decades ago and look where we are now. Let's not make that mistake again.
posted by greermahoney at 10:24 AM on August 12 [70 favorites]


We need to to call them what they are: white supremacists.

Nazis is a lot fewer syllables.

@jeffjarvis
"The fucking Jew-lovers are gassing us," Nazi says on Fox News air.

@tomperriello
Alt-right marcher shouting "Heil Trump." [VIDEO]

@AndyBCampbell
Emblematic indeed #Charlottesville [pic of Nazi flags carried]

@AndyBCampbell
To those demanding photographic evidence of Nazi regalia in #charlottesville, here's what's on display before breakfast. Be safe today [pic of man wearing shirt quoting Hitler]

@donmoyn
#UniteTheRight protest: nazi salutes & white supremacist symbolism. Where are the moderate conservatives to denounce this? #Charlottesville [PIC]
posted by chris24 at 10:25 AM on August 12 [45 favorites]


Richard Spencer gets arrested. Suitable for poster-making.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:27 AM on August 12 [20 favorites]




Today is proof that Bannon and Gorka need to be removed from the White House as soon as possible. And any member of Congress that does not express their deep disgust for today's events should be publicly shamed for their cowardice.
posted by pjsky at 10:32 AM on August 12 [55 favorites]


This country is so fucked for the foreseeable future. Even if a miracle happens in 2018 and 2020, these jackholes are invigorated and aren't going away and, given their general truckload of tactics, are likely to have an outsized effect on national politics and function for a good long time.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:32 AM on August 12 [14 favorites]


I watched a news feed from the rally for about five minutes before I had to turn it off, because I felt myself starting to weep.

But I came here, because I knew Metafilter would provide some much-needed context, and sure enough, there is, and I'm less scared now.

Thank you, Metafilter.
posted by PearlRose at 10:34 AM on August 12 [21 favorites]


the only silver lining is that more of this will expose the "moderate" racists who always deny these fascists really exist and pretend like it's a strawman. well, look: they're not made of straw. it's flesh and blood, good ol fashioned nazis. so, i would ask them, what are you gonna DO about this part of your community?

of course, this still assumes good faith on the part of *some* element on the conservative right, an assumption that every day looks more like naive folly.
posted by wibari at 10:35 AM on August 12 [17 favorites]


does anyone know of a way for me to donate to the counter-protestors' legal defense fund (if they have one) or buy them pizza or just throw them some cash to pay for whatever they need? i've been combing through twitter and haven't seen anything so far, but it's possible i'm not following the right people.
posted by Ragini at 10:35 AM on August 12 [6 favorites]




Richard Spencer gets arrested.

I still just can't get enough.
posted by Etrigan at 10:40 AM on August 12 [23 favorites]




One ACT-UP tactic was carrying extremely loud whistles en mass to silence counter protestors

and remember, Passively accepting nazism/white supremacy is no different than actively promoting it.

also hey, go Charlottesville DSA they got good on the ground coverage and links to bail funds/support groups/etc

Richard Spencer gets arrested.

I still just can't get enough.


REACH OUT AND
PUNCH FACE
posted by The Whelk at 10:40 AM on August 12 [98 favorites]




This country is so fucked for the foreseeable future. Even if a miracle happens in 2018 and 2020, these jackholes are invigorated and aren't going away and, given their general truckload of tactics, are likely to have an outsized effect on national politics and function for a good long time.

I'm starting to think their own privilege might protect us from the worst case scenario. Because these motherfuckers are soft. As a group they really have no idea what hardship is; they haven't suffered. They certainly haven't suffered together. I don't think they have the ability to sustain these activities in the face of any actual opposition, of anything that makes their lives even mildly difficult.

That requires that we make their lives difficult, though, which I am personally fine with, but will be somewhat of a challenge with goddamn Nazis in the White House.

Still, though. These motherfuckers are soft. They are afraid of everything. I don't think they'll be able to sustain a "movement" if they have to suffer any consequences at all.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:44 AM on August 12 [89 favorites]


Yesterday my brother and his girlfriend texted to announce that they would not be going to the counter protest, and I heaved a sigh of relief. A guest at our wedding traveled to Cville to counter protest and today showed up on my feed requiring stitches and perhaps cosmetic surgery.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:46 AM on August 12 [8 favorites]


Yeah I just can;t seem them surviving anything other the most gentlest of push backs, which when they do get it they turn tail.

Hell during one march some pepe scum tried to get in my face and one big GET BACK IN THE BASEMENT made them literally run and I am not an intimidating person
posted by The Whelk at 10:47 AM on August 12 [77 favorites]


Richard Spencer at McIntire Park. Reports of his arrest seem to have been premature.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:48 AM on August 12 [3 favorites]


I expect this will wind up on the front page/cover of something

Jesus, that image is up there with the picture of the Ferguson police dressed in full on urban warfare gear standing in front of a banner that read "Season's Greetings" as they menaced BLM protesters: put it in a movie, and I'ma roll my eyes at the director's heavy-handedness and inability to paint a picture with subtle strokes.

And yet here we are.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:48 AM on August 12 [33 favorites]


"They didn't even feel the need to wear hoods.
They're all confident they'll have jobs on Monday."
wikipedia brown @eveewing
posted by pjsky at 10:49 AM on August 12 [111 favorites]



Jesus, that image is up there with the picture of the Ferguson police dressed in full on urban warfare gear standing in front of a banner that read "Season's Greetings" as they menaced BLM protesters: put it in a movie, and I'ma roll my eyes at the director's heavy-handedness and inability to paint a picture with subtle strokes.


how many of these photos do we need, how long have these gigantic rolling protests about how maybe the police shouldn't just kill children and get away it or maybe open, naked Nazis shouldn't be marching in the street?

what kind of snapping point is up ahead?
posted by The Whelk at 10:51 AM on August 12 [21 favorites]


They brought Tiki torches to a Nazi rally. Guess the "master race" can't design a good torch?

Maybe they just stopped at Home Depot on the way over?
posted by ryanshepard at 10:54 AM on August 12 [12 favorites]


The Associated Press‏Verified account @AP 5 minutes ago

BREAKING: Vehicle plows into a group of counter-protesters at a white nationalist rally in Virginia; injuries unknown.
posted by The Whelk at 10:59 AM on August 12


NBC: "People on the scene say multiple injuries reported after 2 vehicles struck a small crowd of people standing on 4th St near Timberlake Drugs."

The people hit were counter-protestors. There's photos and video up of injured people and a significant amount of blood. Meanwhile David Duke is speaking and the day's still young.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:00 AM on August 12 [3 favorites]


Here's the UVA Student Standards of Conduct.

Every single UVA student documented to have been at the white supremacist march across campus should be expelled from UVA. It's time to draw a hard line against violent white racism.
posted by Squeak Attack at 11:01 AM on August 12 [106 favorites]


It's really bad here. Just left UVA Hospital, which is essentially on lock-down. My daughter called from work saying that shots had been fired (unconfirmed). Now a car has hit multiple people.
posted by kuanes at 11:09 AM on August 12 [5 favorites]


well there's a video i saw but will not share

and now I'm going to go ...be alone with my thoughts
posted by The Whelk at 11:10 AM on August 12 [2 favorites]


"I expect this will wind up on the front page/cover of something"
That photo. I ... I just don't have the words.
posted by bookmammal at 11:10 AM on August 12 [1 favorite]


UVA is not in session. It is unlikely that many, if any, UVA students are there. These Nazis were bussed in from all over the country.
posted by hydropsyche at 11:12 AM on August 12 [8 favorites]


president: charlottesville sad.

@realDonaldTrump
Am in Bedminster for meetings & press conference on V.A. & all that we have done, and are doing, to make it better-but Charlottesville sad!

posted by Rust Moranis at 11:13 AM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Twitter is a mess but it looks like multiple vehicles have hit multiple people. Eugh.
posted by Peter B-S at 11:13 AM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Yup. His own statements and the one from his staff on his Twitter account were all carefully worded to avoid offending the Nazis.

He'll insult anyone and everyone except Putin and Nazis.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:14 AM on August 12 [80 favorites]


This just makes me so sad and angry, as a Jew who has deep roots in Virginia and who has a lot of family connections to UVA. This particular brand of bullshit was supposed to be over. We were not supposed to have to worry about this particular brand of bullshit anymore.

And yeah, my sense is that many of the counter-protesters are students, but the Nazis are mostly not local.

Stay safe everyone.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:15 AM on August 12 [13 favorites]


Note that the picture of the black policeman protecting the assholes is from some protests a month ago, not the current protests.
posted by Justinian at 11:16 AM on August 12 [29 favorites]


UVA is not in session. It is unlikely that many, if any, UVA students are there. These Nazis were bussed in from all over the country.

The Nazis are lucky UVA wasn't in session, seeing how hugely outnumbered they already were by resistance protestors.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:17 AM on August 12 [6 favorites]


Twitter is a mess but it looks like multiple vehicles have hit multiple people. Eugh.

The video I saw (stumbled across) shows a white car getting rear-ended very hard in a crowded street by a grey car. People are struck by the white car (maybe both), then the grey one reverses and takes off at speed. Seems unlikely the white car did anything intentionally, but it's a quick clip. That grey car, though...hard to believe that could be anything but completely intentional.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:19 AM on August 12


Video of car ramming here at 7min30sec warning HOLY FUCK
posted by phoque at 11:19 AM on August 12 [14 favorites]


Post with good places to donate.

As I've said in other threads, this is where I grew up. I was born in the UVA hospital. I'm so angry and heartsick about this, if not exactly surprised. The polite veneer on Southern racism is so very thin. The suggestion of moving a couple of statues and changing the name of a park is enough to unleash racist Nazi rage. Today they're also chanting "fuck you faggots" in addition to the racist and anti-Semitic chants.
posted by gingerbeer at 11:20 AM on August 12 [14 favorites]


That video.

This has to be the end of these fuckers or it's going to be the beginning.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:22 AM on August 12 [37 favorites]


was concerned that calling them Nazi (which is what I have heard them most commonly called in Cville) would be considered editorializing.

Editorialized flag with swastika on it
posted by infini at 11:25 AM on August 12 [7 favorites]




Maybe Facebook can put its facial recognition software to work identifying the white supremacist assholes at the rally. Be real nice if they were all unemployed next week.
posted by COD at 11:27 AM on August 12 [34 favorites]


They're at a white supremacist rally. Odds are they're already unemployed.
posted by Justinian at 11:28 AM on August 12 [20 favorites]




They're at a white supremacist rally. Odds are they're already unemployed.
I am really not convinced that's true, for what it's worth.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:30 AM on August 12 [89 favorites]


The idea that white supremacists are poor whites with nothing going on is poisonous and false. Fascism has always been a middle-class phenomenon and Trump's largest base of support is upper-middle-class white people.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:33 AM on August 12 [187 favorites]


Cowards and bullies. No honor whatsoever hiding behind machinery because they can't win a fair fight.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:33 AM on August 12 [6 favorites]


Yep, it's the scared of people who don't look or live like them gated community crowd.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:34 AM on August 12 [3 favorites]


I saw the photos of the men up front. They're not only employed, they'll be making hiring decisions soon if they aren't already.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:34 AM on August 12 [30 favorites]


They're at a white supremacist rally. Odds are they're already unemployed.

Probably not, if you actually look at any footage/photos they're mostly wearing khakis and golf shirts. They look like they took a break to riot on their way to the country club or a frat party.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 11:36 AM on August 12 [28 favorites]


They're at a white supremacist rally. Odds are they're already unemployed.

No no no no. Don't pretend these people aren't in positions of power. Those militia members aren't unemployed: Oath Keepers and Three Percenters actively recruit current law enforcement and military members.

These are not the people society rejects. They are proudly who they are and face little to no repercussions. If you deny this, you are explicitly severing the link between these groups and the structural racism that underpins our society. The alt-right is in the white house and yet it's still easier to pretend that white supremacists are fringe losers.
posted by yeoldefortran at 11:37 AM on August 12 [210 favorites]


yeah I'm not entirely sure being ID'ed at a Nazi rally won't put them in line for a promotion at the luxury car dealership or real estate firm or local police force they work at
posted by The Whelk at 11:37 AM on August 12 [25 favorites]


I posted some statements from R pols in the Trump thread that ranged from decent to worthless. Marco is terrible but at least he's the first one I've seen who calls them out for what they are, white supremacists and Nazis.

@marcorubio
Nothing patriotic about #Nazis,the #KKK or #WhiteSupremacists It's the direct opposite of what #America seeks to be. #Charlotesville
posted by chris24 at 11:37 AM on August 12 [28 favorites]


Did he deliberately spell the tag wrong?
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:39 AM on August 12 [6 favorites]


Well I know you guys are right but I'm with Justinian I guess when I think 'what makes one a Nazi' I imagine things like a year of unemployment, three family members OD'd on opiates, one strung out on meth, a deeply unhappy person with a million grudges.

Otherwise it's like: why? Why are you a fucking Nazi? I read that Higgins memo about cultural Marxism and I'm still all?????? I don't get it. Why are you so sad?
posted by angrycat at 11:39 AM on August 12 [4 favorites]


Although I do not condone or encourage it, it will be interesting to see if people online start doxxing the men in the march last night. I checked /pol/ this morning and it appears to be a primary concern amongst them. Ironic considering how many of these keyboard warriors think it is their right to doxx others simply for disagreeing with them online.
posted by constantinescharity at 11:40 AM on August 12 [20 favorites]


Watching the car video. There is really no difference between these men and their supposed arch enemy ISIS, is there? So many men just think they deserve the world the way they want it and fuck anyone who doesn't agree

I'd love to see a news story saying they must be taking their cues from the terrorists atttacks in Europe and suggesting they might be like their junior league. All the heads would explode and we could be done with them.
posted by fshgrl at 11:40 AM on August 12 [32 favorites]


Today they're also chanting "fuck you faggots" in addition to the racist and anti-Semitic chants.

And the resistance responded, "We're here, we're gay, we fight the KKK."
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:41 AM on August 12 [140 favorites]


Otherwise it's like: why? Why are you a fucking Nazi?

They're racist fascist fucks. Nothing made them become Nazis, they chose to become Nazis because that's who they are. Fucking terrible people who we need to defeat. Looking for cause is like looking for excuses. They have none.
posted by chris24 at 11:42 AM on August 12 [47 favorites]


They brought Tiki torches to a Nazi rally.

Tiki torches, khakis, racism, violence...it's like spring fling on fraternity row all over again.
posted by PlusDistance at 11:43 AM on August 12 [23 favorites]


I condone the shit out of doxxing them and am eager to hear other ideas.
posted by The Gaffer at 11:43 AM on August 12 [39 favorites]


And they're not Nazis. Nazis were a formal organization that existed halfway across the world many years ago. They were also a lot more successful than these dumbasses and had their own philosophy which is thankfully mostly gone now.

These are regular old American neo-Christian racists.
posted by fshgrl at 11:43 AM on August 12 [11 favorites]


Guys, it can totally be both.
Yes, some underprivileged white dude from an ugly background and low income can become a Nazi.

It's very, very clear that over-privileged middle and upper-class edgelords with college degrees can become Nazis, too. And they're the ones we should focus on, because we're already used to the poor-and-angry stereotype. But those dudes aren't the ones driving this nightmare.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:43 AM on August 12 [36 favorites]


Just a reminder, while I feel badly for the United States right now, I'm also not naive enough to think that this type of ideology/behaviour isn't contagious. The alt-right/nazi/white-nationalism movement has been rapidly spreading the last few years (probably longer than that).

It's easy for those of us outside of the United States (I'm a Canadian) to look from the outside and shake our head. We would do well to pay attention to our own political parties, our own communities. We need to be vigilant otherwise, these same toxic people will infect and migrate into our own communities, cities, countries. And spread the same message of hate and intolerance.
posted by Fizz at 11:43 AM on August 12 [63 favorites]


(2nding gaffer)
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:43 AM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Did they figure out who was driving that grey car??
posted by ian1977 at 11:44 AM on August 12


This is my town. I have friends and family risking their health and safety to fight these Nazis. It was really important to me that this post stay up and provided some context for what has been happening here. That's all I meant by my "editorializing" comment. Please don't let my comment detract/distract from this thread. I apologize for being distracting.
posted by CMcG at 11:45 AM on August 12 [28 favorites]


I condone the shit out of doxxing them and am eager to hear other ideas.

It's not doxxing when they're being photographed in public. They have no right to privacy in this situation. Go for it!
posted by Justinian at 11:45 AM on August 12 [84 favorites]




Let's not sugarcoat it. Let's call these assholes what they are: Republicans.
posted by Floydd at 11:45 AM on August 12 [60 favorites]


This is the car that plowed through a crowd at the #UniteTheRight rally. Stopped along Monticello Ave.

That's a 2016 or 2017 Dodge Challenger, MSRP ~30k. They're not unemployed.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:46 AM on August 12 [33 favorites]


It would not be doxxing. They showed their faces in public; they attached themselves to this.

Not to mention, many of them may be material witnesses in a capital murder and federal terrorism case.
posted by stevis23 at 11:46 AM on August 12 [30 favorites]


Yeah, it's bizarre to use the word "doxxing" to describe the act of identifying people who are intentionally doing something in public. I still think we should be careful, especially about what we repeat on Metafilter, because there could be consequences for misidentifying people or unintentionally spreading malicious misinformation. But these are not people who have any reasonable expectation of privacy.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:48 AM on August 12 [58 favorites]


It ain't like plantation owners were poor ya'll. And the hate driving khaki wearing Klan fucks is about making sure they stay on top.
posted by emjaybee at 11:49 AM on August 12 [26 favorites]


As far back as I can remember (~30 years) it was common to find Nazi flags for sale, if you asked, wherever you could buy Confederate flags. This was even demonstrated in an episode of Top Gear.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:49 AM on August 12 [11 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!

@kylegriffin1 {MSNBC)
Trump's generic condemnation is already leading to responses like this.
@RichardBSpencer: Did Trump just denounce antifa?
@RWPUSA (Richard Painter, GWB WH ethics lawyer) Retweeted Donald J. Trump
Then fire the Alt Right leaders in your White House before we fire you.

@SenSchumer
Of course we condemn ALL that hate stands for. Until @POTUS specifically condemns alt-right action in Charlottesville, he hasnt done his job

@chongathon
Just a reminder that this is what @POTUS tweeted after the protests that triggered cancellation of Milo Yiannopoulos's speech at Berkeley.
@realDonaldTrump: Professional anarchists, thugs and paid protesters are proving the point of the millions of people who voted to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!
---

And 3 days ago:

White House adviser Gorka says people should stop criticizing white supremacists so much
posted by chris24 at 11:49 AM on August 12 [67 favorites]


Am in Bedminster for meetings & press conference on V.A.

I'm not even surprised anymore.
posted by moonbird at 11:50 AM on August 12 [2 favorites]


Yeah, when reading Trump's bland and anodyne tweet keep in mind that he has a bunch of these assholes advising him in the White House.
posted by Justinian at 11:51 AM on August 12 [10 favorites]


It ain't like plantation owners were poor ya'll. And the hate driving khaki wearing Klan fucks is about making sure they stay on top.

I love this! #KuKluxKhaki needs to trend on twitter
posted by pjsky at 11:51 AM on August 12 [38 favorites]


They got the Nazi in the grey car
posted by angrycat at 11:51 AM on August 12 [33 favorites]


I'm just going to assume anyone I see in a polo and khaki shorts is a Nazi

sorry Old Navy
posted by The Whelk at 11:52 AM on August 12 [23 favorites]


Imagine if these people ever faced actual oppression. - A long thread discussing these tiki Nazis and real oppression.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 11:56 AM on August 12 [24 favorites]


The Whelk: I'm just going to assume anyone I see in a polo and khaki shorts is a Nazi

Goddammit, now I need to go to Value Village and replace my wardrobe.

Stay safe, everyone. And fight Nazis.
posted by clawsoon at 11:57 AM on August 12 [14 favorites]


>they're not Nazis. Nazis were a formal organization that existed halfway across the world many years ago. They were also a lot more successful than these dumbasses

"They're not zombies. Zombies just eat brains, these guys seem to be eating the whole corpse; I'd say they're more like ghouls or some type of reanimated revenant."

Everybody knows Indiana Jones hates Nazis, so if they wanna score a public-relations Own Goal by wearing shirts with Hitler quotes and doing the stupid straightarm salute, I say let 'em.

And they've got supporters in the White House, so it's a little early, unfortunately, to call them out as unsuccessful.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:57 AM on August 12 [11 favorites]


They got the Nazi in the grey car

I read that they got the car, but thought it was abandoned by the roadside; they got the guy?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:00 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Trump's holding a news conference any minute now. I look forward to his condemnation of radical white christian terrorism.
posted by Justinian at 12:00 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


>@realDonaldTrump: ....Lets come together as one!

I'm gonna not come together as one with Nazis and the KKK if it's all the same with you.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:00 PM on August 12 [111 favorites]


angrycat: They got the Nazi in the grey car

Arrested? Because the photo of the car upthread made it look abandoned. I would assume if they were caught there would be cops in that photo or the car on a police flatbed. My first glance at that photo made me think the driver will try the "my car was stolen at the time and I'm just now reporting it" as they'll likely be facing multiple accounts of attempted murder.
posted by bluecore at 12:01 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


I read that they got the car, but thought it was abandoned by the roadside; they got the guy?

Even if they did, they've now got the VIN, so the driver's fucked if he didn't steal it.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:01 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]




Seeing report and photo of a dark gray Challenger stopped on Monticello. They got him.
posted by spitbull at 12:04 PM on August 12


As far as coming together as one, Trump's trying to divide America by zero.
posted by moonbird at 12:04 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


if he didn't steal it.

...seems like a high probability of dumb luck to just happen to steal a car with heavily tinted windows for your homicide...
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:04 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


...seems like a high probability of dumb luck to just happen to steal a car with heavily tinted windows for your homicide...

Also they'd apparently removed the number plates, not something you'd do with a stolen car as it would attract more attention than just risking having the plates run.
posted by Buntix at 12:06 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


Guys, we know they got the car, the question is whether they got the driver.
posted by Justinian at 12:06 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) managed to clear the very low bar of calling it what it is, at least. Really fucking pathetic how we're at a point where that's even worth of note.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:08 PM on August 12 [17 favorites]


The photo here, from Cville's newspaper, shows the car with Ohio plates. Photoshopped?
posted by basalganglia at 12:08 PM on August 12


Guys, we know they got the car, the question is whether they got the driver.

CNN reporting that the driver is in custody.
posted by un petit cadeau at 12:10 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


They got the Nazi in the grey car

This is unconfirmed. I googled the name of the person that supposedly did this and I’m pretty convinced this rumor is not true.
posted by _Mona_ at 12:10 PM on August 12


Taylor Lorenz says they arrested the driver and the car has license plates. However, he also says:
Anyway several police officers at the station here think the guy running people down wasn't malicious. They said the driver was scared
So yeah.
posted by zachlipton at 12:10 PM on August 12 [17 favorites]


Keep in mind when reading Flake's commentary that his family members are well known for posting racist, antisemitic, and homophobic slurs all over the internet. There are no good Republicans.
posted by Justinian at 12:11 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]


Justinian: Guys, we know they got the car, the question is whether they got the driver.

This reporter is claiming they have the driver in custody. It seems to imply the driver's claiming he was spooked or attacked beforehand, but a video from another angle [note: GRAPHIC] shows the car accelerated from an area of no protestors towards them.
posted by bluecore at 12:11 PM on August 12 [23 favorites]


Anyway several police officers at the station here think the guy running people down wasn't malicious. They said the driver was scared

And the official cover up begins like clockwork
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:12 PM on August 12 [68 favorites]


The driver was clearly experiencing economic anxiety.
posted by stet at 12:12 PM on August 12 [165 favorites]


I am now fully convinced that there is nothing in the world as fragile or feeble as the white American male ego. The whole purpose of this neo nazi nonsense is to send a message that white men will not allow women, POC or LGBTQ people to exist in the same universe without constraints upon them that will ensure that white men forever and always finish first.
posted by pjsky at 12:12 PM on August 12 [72 favorites]


40 years later and we have the Summer of Hate.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:13 PM on August 12 [40 favorites]


He removed his plates before he drove into the crowd. He knew exactly what he was doing.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:13 PM on August 12 [75 favorites]


The driver was clearly experiencing economic anxiety.

If he had a coal-fueled vehicle, he would've been able to keep it under control.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:16 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


And the official cover up begins like clockwork

An 8-cylinder Dodge Charger is exactly the kind of car I'd expect an off-duty racist cop to be driving. Just sayin...
posted by COD at 12:16 PM on August 12 [25 favorites]


It's easy for those of us outside of the United States (I'm a Canadian) to look from the outside and shake our head. We would do well to pay attention to our own political parties, our own communities.

It is not an isolated incident unique to the US, definitely. I see pearl-clutching from fellow Europeans and I also see the Britain First + EDL + Tommy Robinson + Prison Planet + Pergida + AfD + Sverigesdemokraterna + Danskernes Parti + Golden Dawn + National Front etc. This is spreading and it is terrifying.

Watching the news roll in from Charlottesville, I am wondering where we are heading. My gut instinct tells me we are in the middle of the beginning of something horrific.
posted by kariebookish at 12:16 PM on August 12 [26 favorites]


Every time I see "Jew won't replace us" I want to rip out my IUD because THE HELL WE WON'T!
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 12:16 PM on August 12 [103 favorites]


The Rules of Breaking News still apply, everyone. Hope it's true that they arrested the correct hitlerfuckers but a pile of salt grains is standing by.
posted by stevis23 at 12:17 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


He wasn't scared, but his license plate was terrified, so he was just rushing it home to cuddle and feed it. The humanitarian thing to do.
posted by delfin at 12:18 PM on August 12 [14 favorites]


Cops know all about getting "scared".
posted by Artw at 12:18 PM on August 12 [56 favorites]


Remember that time reasonable conservative commentator and University of Tennessee tenured law professor Glenn Reynolds wrote a column encouraging motorists to "Run them down"?

This is a thing on the Right with explicit approval from elected officials and conservative pundits at the highest level of the Republican party.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:18 PM on August 12 [90 favorites]


Every time I see "Jew won't replace us" I want to rip out my IUD because THE HELL WE WON'T!
My spouse's grandfather was a Holocaust survivor. He had 7 kids and dozens of grand and great-grandkids. In celebration of each birth, he said "Take that, Hitler" (sometimes with saltier language).
posted by hydropsyche at 12:20 PM on August 12 [126 favorites]


Rumours of at least three dead
posted by Yowser at 12:20 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


Mayor implies at least one dead.

@MikeSigner
I am heartbroken that a life has been lost here. I urge all people of good will--go home.

posted by Rust Moranis at 12:22 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


I have seen several videos and photos showing the car had its plates, or at least a rear one.
posted by misskaz at 12:23 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


They said the driver was scared

Goddamn, those are the magic words, aren't they? They always say that, police officer and private citizen alike, because that phrase is the cheat code that makes police half-ass their investigation and gives you admin rights over a (carefully selected) jury to secure your exoneration.

Meanwhile, women and minorities never get to say that, no matter how often they kill and injure us, no matter how poisonous they make the environment for us. There have been numerous times during my 43 years on this planet where American racists have made me fear for my safety in direct encounters with them, and yet I've never assaulted anyone. I have never desired to own weapons or felt like using something I owned as a weapon against them.

But I'm the inferior one who is bringing down America and a threat to "real" Americans' safety. Huh.
posted by lord_wolf at 12:23 PM on August 12 [180 favorites]


Video (Twitter): David Duke today in #Charlottesville talking how how the hate rally "fulfills the promises of Donald Trump."

This needs to get wide circulation.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:25 PM on August 12 [49 favorites]


"I urge all people of good will--go home."

I urge them not to.
posted by maxsparber at 12:26 PM on August 12 [27 favorites]


If you kill someone cops disapprove of them you become an honorary cop as far as they are concerned - see Zimmerman.
posted by Artw at 12:26 PM on August 12 [18 favorites]


Also keep in mind that places with "stand your ground" laws have this stuff in mind. It's not about defending yourself. It's about making it legal to kill people.
posted by azpenguin at 12:27 PM on August 12 [23 favorites]


2 of the people hit where apparently Charlottesville DSA and they where rushed to hospital.

The willingness to put yourself in harms way to help a comrade vs the screaming hysterical anger over imaginary slights is one small spot of light here.
posted by The Whelk at 12:28 PM on August 12 [22 favorites]


One of the cars for sure has plates, not sure if it's the "scared" one.
posted by Artw at 12:31 PM on August 12


I continue to be shocked and angry at how shocked and angry I am...This was all predicted. This is what was promised to us. It couldn't have been clearer. This is what has been blatantly endorsed by our president. This is beyond horrific, but I honestly don't understand why I continue to be surprised.
posted by bookmammal at 12:32 PM on August 12 [24 favorites]


8-cylinder Dodge Charger

Point of order, it's a Challenger. And the base models have V6s, although that looks like a GT to me. And yes, it's a douchemobile par excellence.
posted by spitbull at 12:33 PM on August 12 [7 favorites]


Tin soldiers and Bannon coming, We're finally on our own.
posted by delfin at 12:33 PM on August 12 [17 favorites]


Can't wait for all the bullshit both sides media takes.

Halfway expect the ACLU to step in to defend any Nazis that actually get murder charges at this point too.
posted by Artw at 12:34 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


Pictures show Ohio plates, possibly removed after?
posted by moonbird at 12:34 PM on August 12


One of the cars for sure has plates, not sure if it's the "scared" one.

The Challenger is coming up consistently on Twitter with GVF-1111. That's the one that had a good running start of open road before hitting the crowd.

I'm still not seeing signs that the white car the Challenger rear-ended was intentionally involved in this at all. The white car wound up hitting people, but only because the Challenger struck it and kept pushing before peeling out in reverse to flee the scene.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:34 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


Trump just condemned hatred and violence "on many sides."

Fuck him.
posted by Justinian at 12:35 PM on August 12 [107 favorites]


Trump just condemned "hatred, bigotry, and violence ON MANY SIDES, MANY MANY SIDES."
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:35 PM on August 12 [14 favorites]


Fucking bastard fuck.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:36 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


Trump is speaking in Bedminster. Condemns "egregious display of bigotry and violence on many sides." Fuck him forever
posted by theodolite at 12:36 PM on August 12 [22 favorites]


That's gonna be the standard Nazi take.
posted by Artw at 12:36 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


Two photos [GRAPHIC]. One right before it hits protestors showing absolutely no one around it or touching the car. Second one is GRAPHIC. Ohio plates in the back. Seemingly no plate in the front, which I see often in sports cars like this where it's legal.
posted by bluecore at 12:36 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]




Over under on boasting about his electoral college victory: 2 minutes.

He's now boasting about the economy.
posted by Justinian at 12:36 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


As if malicious and scared are mutually exclusive. Talk to the neighbor's pitbull about that...
posted by Namlit at 12:36 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


The white Toyota had a VA vanity plate reading GODKPME in a photo I saw.

But it looked to me like it was completely shoved after being rear ended from a standstill, hence the major damage to its rear end.
posted by spitbull at 12:37 PM on August 12


Of course it's a Dodge, because they specifically market their cars and trucks to assholes, and like fuck he was scared, the video shows him gunning it for half a block down an empty street straight into the crowd. I would have preferred to see him pulled out and torn limb from limb, but just maybe, justice will be done.
posted by Flashman at 12:37 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]




Yes, that car clearly has its plates. Not sure where the "the plates were removed" meme came from.
posted by Justinian at 12:37 PM on August 12




Shameful, even by Trump standards.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:39 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


Two photos [GRAPHIC]. One right before it hits protestors showing absolutely no one around it or touching the car. Second one is GRAPHIC. Ohio plates in the back. Seemingly no plate in the front, which I see often in sports cars like this where it's legal.

That's weird- where's the white car it plowed into?
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:39 PM on August 12


That was like an uninterrupted stream of white supremacist dogwhistles.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:40 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


Yes, that car clearly has its plates. Not sure where the "the plates were removed" meme came from.

Eyewitnesses got mostly a clear view as it was backing away and the front had been torn off, it's understandable they might have made a wrong assumption.
posted by edeezy at 12:40 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


Cville mefite here. I was staying away from the happenings, but two separate people called to check in with me because apparently some drive-by shootings are happening.

Consider this unconfirmed news, but a lot of businesses closed down today after the car thing.
posted by tedious at 12:40 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


Everything in this speech can be understood as painting the Nazis as victims.
posted by theodolite at 12:40 PM on August 12 [13 favorites]


That's weird- where's the white car it plowed into?

obscured by dozens of people in the process of being run into
posted by edeezy at 12:40 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


Be safe and take care, tedious and everyone in C'ville.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:41 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


That's weird- where's the white car it plowed into?
Based on a conglomeration of photos and videos that I've seen, the grey car drove at high speed through the crowd for quite awhile (hitting people along the way) before it slammed into the white car.
posted by hydropsyche at 12:41 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


I sure was getting a lot of heebie-jeebies from the "sacred bonds of loyalty" phrasing in Trump's comments. Does that sound... nuremburgesque to anyone else?
posted by Justinian at 12:42 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]


where's the white car

Under the bodies.
posted by spitbull at 12:42 PM on August 12


Photo of the driver during arrest. They got him.

If you zoom in on the pic, you see what looks pretty clearly like a white man with the standard long top, shaved sides Nazi haircut.
posted by chris24 at 12:42 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


I am already angry at the thought that anyone, anywhere, will argue this isn't terrorism. But someone will.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:43 PM on August 12 [24 favorites]


If the cops go with "he was scared by the protests and therefore had to kill them" I assume it's gonna be barricades time?
posted by Justinian at 12:43 PM on August 12 [20 favorites]


I am already angry at the thought that anyone, anywhere, will argue this isn't terrorism. But someone will.

Well there's definitely someone who will never call it terrorism, and he's the president.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:44 PM on August 12 [43 favorites]


Here's a quick transcript of Trump's statement. So much wrong with this. So much not said.
I thought I should put out a comment as to what's going on Charlottesville. [stops to shake hands of the veterans he's had standing there for ages]...We're closely following the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville VA. We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence, on many sides. On many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barrack Obama. It's been going on for a long long time. It has no place in America. What is vital now is a swift restoration of Law and Order and the protection of innocent lives.

No citizen should ever fear for their safety and security in our society and no child should ever be afraid to go outside and play. Or be with their parents. And have a good time. I just got off the phone with the gov of Virginia Terry McAuffe and we agreed that the hate and division must stop and must stop right now. We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation and true affection, and really, I say this so strongly, true affection for each other. Our country is doing very well in so many ways. We have record, just absolute record, employment. We have unemployment the lowest it's been in almost 17 years. We have companies pouring in to our country. Foxconn and car companies and so many others. They're coming back to our country. We're renegotiating trade deals to make them great for our country and make them great for the American worker. We have so many things happening in our country. So when I watch Charlottesville, to me it's very very sad.

I want to salute the great work for the state and local police in Virginia. Incredible people, law enforcement, incredible people, and also the national guard, they've really been working smart and working hard. They're doing a terrific job. Federal authorities are also providing support to the governor, he thanked me for that, and we're here to provide whatever other assistance is needed. We are ready, willing, and able. Above all else we must remember this truth. No matter our color, creed, religion, or political party. We are all Americans first. We love our country. We love our god. We love our flag. We're proud of our country. We're proud of who we are. So we want to get the situation straightened out in Charlottesville, and we want to study it. And we want to see what we're doing wrong as a country where things like this can happen. My administration is restoring the sacred bonds of loyalty between this nation and its citizens, but our citizens must also restore the bonds of trust and loyalty between one another. We must love each other, respect each other, and cherish our history and our future together. So important. We have to respect each other, ideally we have to love each other. And now, to the Veterans' Administration...
posted by zachlipton at 12:44 PM on August 12 [21 favorites]


hydropsyche: Based on a conglomeration of photos and videos that I've seen, the grey car drove at high speed through the crowd for quite awhile (hitting people along the way) before it slammed into the white car.

This was my assumption too. It's possible the grey car didn't even see the white one and thought they could completely plow through the crowd, but suddenly hit the white car, forcing them to reverse.
posted by bluecore at 12:45 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


Emergency antifascist BLM rally at union square NYC at 4pm today
posted by The Whelk at 12:46 PM on August 12 [30 favorites]


As Trump walked offstage, journalists asked him, "Do you want the support of these white nationalist groups? They say they support you," "Have you denounced these white nationalists strongly enough?" "Was this terrorism?"
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:47 PM on August 12 [94 favorites]


Did this motherfucker just say "on many sides" when we are talking about actual fucking Nazis
posted by en forme de poire at 12:47 PM on August 12 [133 favorites]


Well there's definitely someone who will never call it terrorism, and he's the president.

He is the Anwar al-Awlaki of these motherfucks.
posted by Artw at 12:48 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


He ignored the interjections and questions about terrorism and focused on minor sexism and trying to get vets to argue over his pen instead.
posted by Peter B-S at 12:48 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


Facebook page for Solidarity Against Hate in Seattle at 1pm tomorrow. Apparently the Pac NW Nazi assholes want to do a thing at Westlake tomorrow, so this is (one) counter-protest. Don't know if other groups are organizing yet.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:48 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


I saw an interview with a guy there, and he said,"This is terrorism. People have died on American soil, in the name of White Nationalism. If it's terrorism when it happens in France, it's terrorism here."
posted by Room 641-A at 12:49 PM on August 12 [122 favorites]


As Trump walked offstage, journalists asked him, "Do you want the support of these white nationalist groups? They say they support you," "Have you denounced these white nationalists strongly enough?" "Was this terrorism?"

May that show up in some actual reporting.
posted by Artw at 12:49 PM on August 12 [23 favorites]


At least one person died and he says fuck all.


Your President.
posted by Yowser at 12:50 PM on August 12 [14 favorites]


It's so easy for Trump to say he "loves ALL Americans" when everybody knows he doesn't consider POC and/or immigrants as "real Americans." Fuck him and everyone of his fucking supporters.
posted by pjsky at 12:50 PM on August 12 [16 favorites]


There's a total doxxing in that Twitter thread that has the two juxtaposed photos (if you scroll down into the responses). The person the car is licensed to is (according to LinkedIn) a Vice President of Business Development at a healthcare company. Street address is there, too; house is valued at about half a million and is in some lame-ass, sterile exurban bubble.

. . . IF that's who the car was driven by. It could be stolen; it could be driven by a family member or something.

I've obscured the specifics, but it's pretty easy to go find the info from that Twitter thread if you're so inclined. (Mods, delete if I've revealed too much; I tried not to.)
posted by CommonSense at 12:50 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


The headline should be "President Trump declines to condemn white supremacy and the killing of anti-fascists."
posted by Justinian at 12:50 PM on August 12 [71 favorites]


The photos from the Charlottesville Daily Progress staff photographer. Includes some quite **graphic** photos of the vehicular assault and aftermath, and also stuff from earlier.
posted by misskaz at 12:51 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


It's easy for those of us outside of the United States (I'm a Canadian) to look from the outside and shake our head. We would do well to pay attention to our own political parties, our own communities. We need to be vigilant otherwise, these same toxic people will infect and migrate into our own communities, cities, countries. And spread the same message of hate and intolerance.

It began last year, in the spring. Globally, that is, and has only gotten worse. Ironically, its thanks to orangehead's tweets and frivolous leaderof superworldpower acting out that Rest of the World pushback has begun shedding light on it "at home" and turning the tide as recent european elections showed.
posted by infini at 12:51 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


Keep in mind that gvf is Nazi signaling, more subtle that a swastika, but absolutely a gang sign of Nazi. Either that tag is fake, or the driver custom ordered it. And he sped up to hit the crowd. If the cops try to make this go away, we need to shut down that police force. Business insider is reporting that one person has already died from the car attack.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:52 PM on August 12 [25 favorites]


@maggieNYT: The administration's response to almost any criticism - on race, on Russia, on personal enrichment - is whataboutism. Today no exception.

If Haberman, the dean of "both sides" reporting, gets it... And Trump had to brag about unemployment and car companies in the middle of it because he's physically incapable of not making everything about himself?
posted by zachlipton at 12:53 PM on August 12 [23 favorites]


Another thought: aside from the crystal clear video evidence, it's going to be hard to make the case they were just out for casual Saturday drive and got stuck in a protest that spooked them when they drove all the way from fucking Ohio for their hate rally.
posted by bluecore at 12:54 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


gvf = gott...volk... freiheit?
posted by Flashman at 12:55 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


The president is a shitty nazi, now can we move on? There's 5 million other threads for that.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 12:55 PM on August 12


Potus45: the buck never stops.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:55 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


Take 12 seconds to watch the end of Trump's bill signing. He had every opportunity to condemn white supremacists. He walked away.

We know what he says when he really wants to condemn somebody. Think about what he's said about Rosie O'Donnell for crying out loud.
posted by zachlipton at 12:56 PM on August 12 [33 favorites]


It should be noted that Trump is not known for his sober, measured statements when it comes to stuff that actually bothers him. He loves this shit and he wants more of it.
posted by theodolite at 12:56 PM on August 12 [16 favorites]


The president is a shitty nazi, now can we move on?

I think a lot of us can't move on until we're no longer in legitimate fear of dying under fascism.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:56 PM on August 12 [121 favorites]


Trump just condemned "hatred, bigotry, and violence ON MANY SIDES, MANY MANY SIDES."

I know it's not an original sentiment, but fuck this President, fuck his fucking party, and fuck each and every fucking person who put them in office.
posted by non canadian guy at 12:58 PM on August 12 [94 favorites]


Trump is being torn to shreds on CNN by essentially everyone. So that's a good sign.
posted by Justinian at 12:59 PM on August 12 [41 favorites]


Trump is being torn to shreds on CNN by essentially everyone. So that's a good sign.

Jeffrey "Seig Heil" Lord isn't there to justify Trump's baby eating.
posted by Talez at 1:00 PM on August 12 [13 favorites]


@LarrySabato:
A favorite JFK quote: "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.'
posted by chris24 at 1:04 PM on August 12 [127 favorites]


While "on many sides" rightly gets the attention, "cherish our history" is damning. This is our history. Our bigoted history is what white supremacists cite to justify themselves. "Cherish our history" is what the guy waving a Confederate flag is shouting. That's the side Trump, who knows so little of history he thought Frederick Douglass was being recognized more and more, has taken.
posted by zachlipton at 1:05 PM on August 12 [59 favorites]


Hospital's confirming 1 dead, 19 injured. Trump's labeled similar incidents as terrorism within minutes, even in other countries, and even with none killed and fewer injured. But he won't call it terrorism when it's here and when people die. It's a funny thing. But not ha-ha funny. Y'know?
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:06 PM on August 12 [49 favorites]


Another side to the "cherish our history" dogwhistle: The nazis, white supremacists, and other Republicans are ostensibly there to protest the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee. So cherish history is a pure dogwhistle to those folks.
posted by Justinian at 1:07 PM on August 12 [70 favorites]


Where were they radicalized?

@joshtpm:
If this is terrorism (which it is) the White House and Presidents entourage are filled with the radical preachers who inspire it.
posted by chris24 at 1:08 PM on August 12 [37 favorites]


CNN web site headline calls it what it is: TERROR IN VIRGINIA.
posted by darkstar at 1:08 PM on August 12 [37 favorites]


Though it would be better if it said "TERRORISM IN VIRGINIA" just to eliminate the semantic wiggle-room.
posted by darkstar at 1:11 PM on August 12 [39 favorites]


Where I live, the prosecutor for terrorism cases would have issued a statement and started an inquiry within an hour of the attack.
posted by Tobu at 1:12 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


I think a lot of us can't move on until we're no longer in legitimate fear of dying under fascism.

When they put me to hard labour with a crescent on my shirt, I can rest assured that the missing oxford comma in his latest tweet will provide me the means to escape.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 1:15 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


Trump ad-libbed "on many sides" too. He's reading from a prepared statement and looks up from the page JUST so he can avoid explicitly condemning Nazis.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 1:17 PM on August 12 [38 favorites]


CNN finally found an asshole to defend Trump's statement. Guess they turned over enough rocks.
posted by Justinian at 1:18 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


gvf = gott...volk... freiheit?

It's not an easy google, but it looks like GVF is something found on old Nazi insignia. Ironically, it appears to mean "Fit only for limited field duty" (as opposed to "fit for full combat duty.")
posted by msalt at 1:23 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


So it's like 'injured reserve'?
posted by ian1977 at 1:26 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


It's only a matter of time before one of these ghouls opens fire at a protest. We're heading into Baader-Meinhof territory, with a wide range of richly deserving fascist targets whose silence or dogwhistling is all but going to guarantee a US future populated by domestic guerrilla groups.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:26 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]


You know what I can't get over? What's almost as bad as the violence itself? It's looking around me and walking through this country of ours, in and among white people, and wondering which ones are okay with this terrorism. It's why I barely went out in the immediate days after the election. My mental monologue was a constant shrieking litany of were you one of the people who did this to us? every time I saw a seemingly harmless white dude or lady. I've walked through cities alone after midnight and felt more safe than I did on those days.

Like, my god, I knew people were racist, okay? I knew. But at least it was a step down from KKK burning torches and lynching people sort of racism, so there was some hope that education and activism and the moral arc of the universe bending towards justice would get us to a better place. And I learned a while back that anyone can be a Nazi, that any number of ordinary men and women can participate in and allow all manner of horrors, that it doesn't take a unique evil or even being an obviously bad person. Some part of me still thought not here, not here, it can't happen here, but today I'm looking at the news wondering if I'm about to find out just how many people, my fellow citizens all of them, are about to show me just how very easily it can happen here. With the support of the President, no less.
posted by yasaman at 1:27 PM on August 12 [171 favorites]


Nazis have a rally scheduled for Boston Common Aug. 19. Their last rally didn't go so well.
posted by adamg at 1:29 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


A White House statement:
The President was condemning hatred, bigotry and violence from all sources and all sides. There was violence between protestors and counter protestors today.
"On many sides" really is what they're sticking with here.
posted by zachlipton at 1:32 PM on August 12 [60 favorites]


Halfway expect the ACLU to step in to defend any Nazis that actually get murder charges at this point too.

They did some "witness reporting" that made it sound like the counter-protesters instigated it, and their Twitter feed today has not been much better.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:33 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


There was violence between protestors and counter protestors today.

Yeah, that Dodge Challenger's bumper really suffered.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:34 PM on August 12 [13 favorites]


ACLU Virginia has apologized for that noting that they aren't reporters at least.
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 1:36 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


They did some "witness reporting" that made it sound like the counter-protesters instigated it, and their Twitter feed today has not been much better.

FWIW, the tweet was deleted and the social media manager apologized and fell on his sword.
posted by Justinian at 1:36 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


You know what I can't get over? What's almost as bad as the violence itself? It's looking around me and walking through this country of ours, in and among white people, and wondering which ones are okay with this terrorism

For what it's worth, I'm a whiteboy myself and do this too. It's a disheartening and scary time to live.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:37 PM on August 12 [53 favorites]


Great, tear gas fig leaves on the statues.
posted by clavdivs at 1:38 PM on August 12


There needs to be an ACLU like organization that doesn't have a hard on for nazis. Their current bullshit is no longer sustainable.
posted by Artw at 1:38 PM on August 12 [20 favorites]


Either that tag is fake, or the driver custom ordered it.

There are various free websites for looking up vehicle (though not owner, so you can't use it for privacy violation) information by license plate. Looking up that plate pulls up the correct make & model of vehicle, so it's not a fake tag.
posted by biogeo at 1:39 PM on August 12 [7 favorites]


If things really go south, more of us will be silently complicit than would prefer to admit.
posted by ian1977 at 1:40 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]


There needs to be an ACLU like organization that doesn't have a hard on for nazis.

I would think long and hard about giving the government the legal power of prior restraint on speech. This is what the ACLU is fighting against, not what happens in the street when Nazis open their mouths.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:40 PM on August 12 [72 favorites]


That reporter Taylor works for the Daily Mail and all evidence refutes her. I wonder how she sleeps at night.
posted by Yowser at 1:42 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


We can keep on hating the nazis without having to pile on the ACLU, I think. The dumbass social media manager screwed up.
posted by Justinian at 1:42 PM on August 12 [37 favorites]


I would think long and hard about giving the government the legal power of prior restraint on speech.

Oh, come on, that's not what Artw is saying. The Nazis have enough corporate funding and institutional power that they don't need the ACLU to step in on their side. People have donated hard-earned money that could be better spent defending millions of other causes and people who don't have the luxury that the fascists have. I think it's worth considering whether or not there's an organization that has better priorities.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:44 PM on August 12 [29 favorites]


Bay Area United Against White Supremacy is holding an Emergency Solidarity Demonstration tonight at 7pm at 14th and Broadway in Oakland.
posted by waitangi at 1:44 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


The ACLU has a long history of asserting Nazis' rights to intimidate members of minoritized groups when that intimidation can be framed as "speech". The SPLC is more reliable, but do tend to see the law as the only useful, valid tool in fighting hate.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:45 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


they're mostly wearing khakis and golf shirts

@missbreton: The new KKK uniform sucks.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 1:45 PM on August 12 [18 favorites]




KKK=khakikhakikhaki
posted by ian1977 at 1:48 PM on August 12 [7 favorites]


Oh, come on, that's not what Artw is saying.

No, that's exactly what Artw is saying. The ACLU doesn't have a "hard on for Nazis". They fight for everyone's basic rights, even Nazis. It's this defense of basic liberties of even those you disagree with that separates you from the Nazis.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:49 PM on August 12 [30 favorites]


Also, the ACLU isn't morally or ethically obliged to support Nazis. Especially not when there are so many groups with far more pressing needs regarding legal restraint and civil rights violations that have to resort to actual begging for help, or that require the legal aid that a organization stuffed to the gills with lawyers like ACLU could (and should) provide to them.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:49 PM on August 12 [25 favorites]


For the record:

John Wagner and Jenna Johnson/Washington Post: Trump condemns Charlottesville violence but doesn’t single out white nationalists for blame
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:50 PM on August 12 [14 favorites]


People have donated hard-earned money that could be better spent defending millions of other causes and people who don't have the luxury that the fascists have.

I don't think we should get into this here, as it's a derail, but national ACLU isn't exactly hurting for money right now and are working on many, many other issues and cases.

I'm going to stop threadsitting, too.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:50 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


No, that's exactly what Artw is saying. The ACLU doesn't have a "hard on for Nazis". They fight for everyone's basic rights, even Nazis. It's this defense of basic liberties of even those you disagree with that separates you from the Nazis.

Intimidation and threats of violence are crimes. They aren't protected speech. The idea that voicing Nazi ideas do not inherently constitute both is a failure of analysis.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:51 PM on August 12 [36 favorites]






Pope Guilty, luckily current First Amendment jurisprudence squarely disagrees with you. Just espousing odious beliefs, even beliefs calling for violence, is not a crime.

The very idea that it should be is poisonous.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:54 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


No, that's exactly what Artw is saying.

Bullshit. At no point did he suggest that anyone "[give] the government the legal power of prior restraint on speech." He stated that maybe there should group that might help the hundreds of millions of other Americans that aren't Nazis and whose basic rights the ACLU has apparently decided are less worthy of fighting for than Nazis.

national ACLU isn't exactly hurting for money right now and are working on many, many other issues and cases

And the problem is that there are many, many other issues and cases that they could be working on that do involve defending the civil rights of marginalized groups and don't involve defending violent fascists.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:55 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


I think what America needs right now is for the driver of the douchemobile to say "YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT IT WAS ON PURPOSE AND I DID IT FOR TRUMP." Draw us a big red blinking arrow.

.
posted by saysthis at 1:55 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


Yes, I am aware of the ACLUs rationale for their both-siderism, it remains bullshit. I'd prefer to give my money to a group that only supports people who's rights are actually in danger from now on, thanks.

Looks like that'll be the SPLC.
posted by Artw at 1:55 PM on August 12 [32 favorites]


The ACLU are free speech absolutists and have never pretended to be anything else. They do a lot of good work on other issues, but they're not going to budge on defending Nazis, and people are going to have to make up their own minds about whether that's a deal-breaker for them.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:57 PM on August 12 [44 favorites]


Reminder: The ACLU worked closely with Y Combinator, which still has Peter Thiel on its board of directors.

You know where *not* to put your money.
posted by Yowser at 1:57 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


I'm looking at the Facebook account of the young guy that some people have identified as the driver, and it's not what I expected: lots of art and music and more than one anti-Trump post. There's a post from several years ago showing what seems to be the same car which was given to him when he turned 16.

But the most recent post from this guy is just 4 hours old (link to some classic soul), and the comments are a mix of strangers accusing him and friends saying the picture of the guy being arrested doesn't look anything like him. (I'd agree: the guy in the blurry picture we've seen of the arrest doesn't look like Facebook guy. Friend driving it / car stolen at scene?) No reply from him on his timeline yet. No other posts showing he was planning to go to Virginia.

Like On The Media's breaking news consumer guide says: this is a breaking story, things can change. But there are a lot of gleeful racists and neo-Nazis stomping all over the guy's page right now.
posted by maudlin at 1:58 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


Yes, I am aware of the ACLUs rationale for their both-siderism

It's not "both-siderism". The point of the ACLU isn't that both sides are right, or equally bad. Their point is that everyone has equal rights.

It's unbelievable that the ACLU, an organization that has fought long and hard for the rights of everyone, is coming under fire. You sound exactly like angry social conservatives do when they rage at the ACLU for defending against their attempts to foist religion on everyone else.

One of the worst aspects of the Trump era is spreading his corrosive poison even to his opponents.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:59 PM on August 12 [90 favorites]


I wouldn't trust anything from self appointed Reddit detectives.
posted by Artw at 2:00 PM on August 12 [20 favorites]


Pope Guilty, luckily current First Amendment jurisprudence squarely disagrees with you. Just espousing odious beliefs, even beliefs calling for violence, is not a crime.
The protections the First Amendment affords speech and expressive conduct are not absolute. This Court has long recognized that the government may regulate certain categories of expression consistent with the Constitution. See, e.g., Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568, 571—572. For example, the First Amendment permits a State to ban “true threats,” e.g., Watts v. United States, 394 U.S. 705, 708 (per curiam), which encompass those statements where the speaker means to communicate a serious expression of an intent to commit an act of unlawful violence to a particular individual or group of individuals, see, e.g., id., at 708. The speaker need not actually intend to carry out the threat. Rather, a prohibition on true threats protects individuals from the fear of violence and the disruption that fear engenders, as well as from the possibility that the threatened violence will occur. R. A. V., supra, at 388. Intimidation in the constitutionally proscribable sense of the word is a type of true threat, where a speaker directs a threat to a person or group of persons with the intent of placing the victim in fear of bodily harm or death.
--SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES, VIRGINIA v. BLACK et al.

The very idea that it should be is poisonous.

The very idea that making threats in the face of the history of violence behind those threats should be protected is poisonous.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:00 PM on August 12 [42 favorites]


And the problem is that there are many, many other issues and cases that they could be working on that do involve defending the civil rights of marginalized groups and don't involve defending violent fascists.

I say this as the husband of a Jew, and as the father of two Jewish children:

We have laws against incitement, and we also have the 1st Amendment. Giving the government, especially in the current political climate and especially given historical precedent, the right to negate the latter and preemptively silence anyone, no matter how vile - provided they do not cross the line into incitement - terrifies me.

I will continue to pay my ACLU dues, and I will continue to show up to tell Nazis to go fuck themselves whenever I can. I do not see these things as being antagonistic to one another.
posted by ryanshepard at 2:01 PM on August 12 [91 favorites]


The Whelk: I'm just going to assume anyone I see in a polo and khaki shorts is a Nazi

G-ddamn them. First it's the damn punisher t-shirts, and now this. FWIW I got a 2 year old ponytail ( a.k.a "Freak Flag" ) that I hope will mitigate your assessment of my clothing choices.
posted by mikelieman at 2:01 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


They're going to release the name of the guy who has been arrested, right? That's public information. We really can wait a couple of hours, rather than descending on some dude who may or may not be the right person.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:02 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


I'm looking at the Facebook account of the young guy that some people have identified as the driver, and it's not what I expected: lots of art and music and more than one anti-Trump post.

It's almost as if the Internet mob is pretty shit at detective work and shouldn't be trusted to correctly identify individuals involved in emotionally charged news. Funny that it's never happened before.
posted by biogeo at 2:02 PM on August 12 [23 favorites]


Giving the government - especially in the current political climate and especially given historical precedent - the right to negate the latter and preemptively silence anyone, no matter how vile - provided they do not cross the line into incitement - terrifies me.

Good thing no one here is even suggesting this, no many how many times you imply they are.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:03 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


The danger that nazis could get disenfranchised is not worrying me right now. The danger is nazis. And giving them a helping hand in the name of abstract principle is still helping them.
posted by The Gaffer at 2:03 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]


Speech and beliefs calling for inciting violence are criminal here and I don't find it's poisoned much. YMMV.

Also, yes, a lot of people have decided it was antifa hitting antifa over on /pol/. Evidence is limited but regardless, people are being harassed anyway.
posted by Peter B-S at 2:03 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


I mean, we're talking about someone basically saying "maybe there's another civil rights group I can support that actually helps those in critical need of help." No one has said they'd rather see 1A protections taken away.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:05 PM on August 12 [19 favorites]


zombieflanders, that case was about burning crosses. What's being advocated here is preventing people from merely espousing Nazi/fascist beliefs, which cases like Brandenburg have long protected.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:06 PM on August 12


At least one reporter on Fox News isn't completely ignoring Trump's "on both sides" horseshit. My word.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:07 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


So, what exactly are the cases when the ACLU has refused to help those in critical need of help? Because I'm aware of many, many instances of the ACLU being the only organization to stand up and provide legal assistance to those whose rights are under attack, and I don't recall any offhand where they've refused to do so.
posted by biogeo at 2:08 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


oh i did find this!

THREAD: I think it would be cool if tons of folks donated to good Charlottesville-based nonprofits those Nazi jerks would really hate. So...
posted by Ragini


Thank you for linking that twitter account! Just donated to Charlottesville Pride. Since I can't actually punch a white supremist in the face today, that will have to do.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 2:08 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


First they came for those that wore Punisher tshirts, and I said nothing, for I do not shop at hot topic.

Then they came for the khakis
posted by ian1977 at 2:10 PM on August 12 [15 favorites]


At least one reporter on Fox News isn't completely ignoring Trump's "on both sides" horseshit. My word.

Which one? Shep Smith and (to a lesser degree) Chris Wallace seem to have some leeway about reacting as normal human beings.
posted by maudlin at 2:11 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Trump makes one more step towards open acceptance of the deaths of left wing protesters.

It isn't even subtle now.
posted by jaduncan at 2:12 PM on August 12 [43 favorites]


I swear, there is entirely too much bullshit in this world.
posted by darkstar at 2:12 PM on August 12 [7 favorites]


Which one? Shep Smith and (to a lesser degree) Chris Wallace seem to have some leeway about reacting as normal human beings.

Didn't catch her name, she was a correspondent on the scene. The host she was talking to also made mention about Trump "catching a lot of heat" for the statement.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:13 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


It wasn't subtle when they started pushing for laws freeing people who semi-intentionally hit protesters with cars, either.

I was watching the Buzzfeed livestream this morning and a grey car--possibly the Challenger that went on to hit people--drove slowly by, and the Buzzfeed reporter went "oh, I hate seeing cars at places like this, I'm just waiting for someone to break a windshield."

I meanwhile was braced and thinking "That guy's going to run someone down. Fuck. Fuck. You just saw a guy with a massive hole in his goddamn head being helped away by his friends next to the police station, and you're worried about fucking windshields?!"

Fuck, I hate being right.
posted by sciatrix at 2:15 PM on August 12 [45 favorites]


These are all the same reporters that get an embarrassing middle school chubbie if they see a US bomb go off. Fuck them.
posted by ian1977 at 2:15 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


Two Republican legislators have explicitly called out Trump's "many sides":

@SenCoryGardner: Mr. President - we must call evil by its name. These were white supremacists and this was domestic terrorism.

@RosLehtinen: White supremacists, Neo-Nazis and anti-Semites are the antithesis of our American values. There are no other "sides" to hatred and bigotry.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on August 12 [130 favorites]


One idea that a lot of democracies other than the U.S. have in their constitution is - and here I'll use the language in the Canadian constitution - that free speech rights are only subject to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

That seems okay to me. Our Supreme Court has set a pretty high bar for what constitutes a reasonable limit, so that only the most vicious and hateful stuff is illegal.

Not that it stops the flow of vile speech from across our southern border, though.
posted by clawsoon at 2:16 PM on August 12 [13 favorites]


You know what I can't get over? What's almost as bad as the violence itself? It's looking around me and walking through this country of ours, in and among white people, and wondering which ones are okay with this terrorism.

Beyond just being cowardly, that was part of the old KKK method of terrorizing people too: they wanted to inspire racial fear and paranoia to exacerbate tensions between whites and blacks. The hoods in addition to shielding their identities also made it possible for them to misrepresent themselves as representatives of the white community, speaking on behalf of all of us and potentially hiding in plain sight. Fuckers don't speak for anyone but themselves and the cynical rich legacy white fuckers pulling their strings but they'd like to project the image they do, that they're everywhere and inescapable, like typical abusers do. Bullshit.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:16 PM on August 12 [28 favorites]


There are now reports and photos of a State Police helicopter crashing in Charlottesville.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:19 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


Oh, man. From the Twitter account of Dean Seal of The Daily Progress: BREAKING: On scene here, I'm being told a state police helicopter has crashed in the woods near Old Farm Road.

(Daniel Dale says that's in the Charlottesville area, but no word yet on whether this is at all related to the protests.)
posted by maudlin at 2:19 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


NPR was just interviewing Wes Bellamy, the Vice-Mayor of Charlottesville now; the reporter began a comment with something like, "So as I understand this all started with the city removing a statue of Robert E. Lee...." and Bellamy completely went off on that, pointing things squarely and firmly at a lengthy history of white supremacy. Even when the reporter tried to re-direct ("yes, but this specific instance....") he cut her off and called out white supremacy.

I want a transcript. really bad.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:22 PM on August 12 [108 favorites]


Well, Chuck fucking Grassley just tweeted something that was not very grammatical but was at least emphatic:
What " WhiteNatjonalist" are doing in Charlottesville is homegrown terrorism that can't be tolerated anymore that what Any extremist does
At least we know it's from him, I guess, because that was definitely not a vetted statement.

If anyone is in Iowa and can leave right now, there are solidarity rallies in Des Moines and Iowa City at 5:00 tonight. There's already been a rally planned for the Quad Cities on Wednesday in response to white supremacist fliers that have been showing up there.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:24 PM on August 12 [19 favorites]


What's being advocated here is preventing people from merely espousing Nazi/fascist beliefs,

That's not what's being advocated here; what's being advocated is that since the ACLU does defend Nazis -- rightly or wrongly -- that should be considered as a factor when choosing whether or not to donate to the ACLU.

I would add that America's positions on speech -- as enshrined in the Constitution, and as defended by the ACLU -- are not necessary the most efficacious method of preventing fascism, irrespective of its other merits, and other countries have taken different approaches, viz, German bans on Nazi iconography; what's being advocating here -- in the wake of fascist violence, not fascist speech -- is that, perhaps, people should take this particular moment to support other organizations than the ACLU because other organizations are better placed to oppose fascism, and more specifically directly at protecting at-risk individuals and groups.

I don't believe (but this is a fast-moving thread, and I might have missed something) that anyone is saying that the ACLU should stop being the ACLU; merely that when it comes to supporting the ACLU or the SPLC or [organization of your choice], you should consider the ACLU's prioritization of some aims over others; and secondly, that if the ACLU is faced with a choice of defending Nazis or some other group, maybe their should pick the other group -- but because they are flush with cash, that is probably a hypothetical they are not currently facing.

I absolutely and unequivocally support the ACLU's stance on affording the same rights to all citizens. I do not agree, however, that America has a completely ideal approach to speech issues; it would take a change to the Constitution to fix that, but it doesn't mean that we can't, in the meantime, point out that other countries have managed to ban certain kinds of pro-Nazi speech without leading to an oppressive state in which the same power is wielded against those who are actually oppressed.

And, you know, broadly speak? Nazis' rights to free speech are not actually at risk here. The lives of regular Americans are. We should prioritize accordingly.
posted by cjelli at 2:25 PM on August 12 [58 favorites]


NPR was just interviewing Wes Bellamy

Ugh, he has a history of tweeting stupid shit.
posted by peeedro at 2:26 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


And, you know, broadly speak? Nazis' rights to free speech are not actually at risk here. The lives of regular Americans are. We should prioritize accordingly.

No, what is at risk are your free speech rights if the Trump administration is given the power and precedent to restrict anyone's speech.
posted by straight at 2:28 PM on August 12 [17 favorites]


People are free to donate to whichever causes they choose. The government should not be given the power to suppress speech. End of story, let's move on.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:30 PM on August 12 [30 favorites]


> NPR was just interviewing Wes Bellamy

Ugh, he has a history of tweeting stupid shit.


Interestingly, I was coming in here to speak about the ACLU, but I think it also applies in this case.

Yes, the ACLU defends the right of Nazis to demonstrate. But demonstrating is all they support. They only step in if a group tries to secure a parade permit or something, and the town goes "fuck no, not here". Because that town saying "fuck no, not here" is unconstitutional, full stop. I doubt the ACLU would be coming to the defense of the guy who plowed his car into the protestors, becuase that is murder and murder is illegal.

So yes, the ACLU has defended Nazis in the past - but only up to a specific point. And the reason they did so is to ensure that the rights they were winning for the Nazis could also be enjoyed by groups like Black Lives Matter, or the Million Woman March, or...

People are imperfect. People can do things that you disagree with. It does not necessary wholly invalidate the things that they do right.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:33 PM on August 12 [45 favorites]


The ACLU is never about defending Nazis. They are about denying the government powers that would for sure be turned and used against you and people you care about.
posted by straight at 2:33 PM on August 12 [74 favorites]


Hippie punk artsy Facebook guy (the one the doxxers claimed was the driver of the car) just posted several times, saying that he drives a totally different car. (Yeah, it could be someone posting on his behalf, but really, this seems to have been a malicious rumour. Really, really does NOT look like the arrested guy.) His page will be infested with Nazis for a long time, though.
posted by maudlin at 2:37 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


The ACLU is never about defending Nazis. They are about denying the government powers that would for sure be turned and used against you and people you care about.

Is it time to quote A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS? Because it feels like it is time? No? Okaaaaay.
posted by Justinian at 2:38 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


Somewhere down the road the progressive liberals are the dominant group in power. At that happy day, I still want the ACLU to keep them in check too.
posted by ian1977 at 2:38 PM on August 12 [15 favorites]


Perfect.

@KeeganNYC
Holy fuck. In the middle of some Nazi's livestream about how the left is not tolerant a driver ploughs through Charlottesville counter-demo.
VIDEO

@Garossino Retweeted Keegan Stephan
Aaaand here we have Rebel Media’s Faith Goldy appears to be right on scene w sneering anti-left commentary, just as car attacks. #cdnpoli
posted by chris24 at 2:40 PM on August 12 [14 favorites]


Set the Wayback Machine to the London Bridge attack...

Trump tweets spark strong reaction in UK Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large Updated 10:47 PM ET, Sun June 4, 2017

Containing such wonderful moments as
"We must stop being politically correct and get down to the business of security for our people. If we don't get smart it will only get worse," Trump started.
posted by mikelieman at 2:42 PM on August 12 [13 favorites]


"Liberty may be endangered by the abuses of liberty as well as by the abuses of power."

-Alexander Hamilton
posted by clavdivs at 2:45 PM on August 12 [15 favorites]


The ACLU is the like the park ranger of the national park that is our collective consciousness.
posted by ian1977 at 2:46 PM on August 12 [7 favorites]


.
posted by sciencegeek at 2:48 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


if donald trump wants the american people to unite he can start the process by quitting his job
posted by pyramid termite at 2:51 PM on August 12 [22 favorites]




No that's not perfect, that's Rebel Media, which with cross pollination with American Naziism may destroy Canada.

In case you're wondering why I'm so pissed off at America (more than usual)
posted by Yowser at 2:53 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


It would be the easiest thing in the world for the president to say: "This was domestic terrorism and we are absolutely going to nail the perpetrators to the wall." And then to do it, by which I mean, to call somebody and tell them to do it. He'd barely have to lift a finger.

It's probably the easiest thing any president could do to boost his ratings prop up his polling numbers. He would actually be doing the executive's job. It would look strong, confident, tough-but-fair, it would demonstrate a commitment to law and order. Virtually every person in the country would get behind that. How many leaders get a gimme like this? How many malignant narcissists could pass up an opportunity like this? He wouldn't even lose the support of the neo-Nazis - who else are they going to support?

I am far away, and I am safe, but just hearing this news makes me want to vomit. I don't even want to think about what it's like to be closer to the center.
posted by Western Infidels at 2:57 PM on August 12 [28 favorites]


Looking back to my very first comment in the nauseating wake of the election, I said:


A man who had the enthusiastic backing of the Ku Klux Klan was elected to the most powerful office in the world. The sickness and moral rot in this country are just beyond words, and no amount of brave talk can cover it up.
posted by informavore at 6:30 AM on November 9, 2016 [66 favorites +] [!]


The media at this point have one job: to hang this atrocity around the neck of Trump and every other Republican. They as a party have profited from stoking hate for years. They need to be made to own every one of these acts of violence. And this country needs to finally put down the spasming corpse of the Confederacy for good.
posted by informavore at 2:57 PM on August 12 [56 favorites]




A Nazi killed an IWW member today.

I just keep saying that in my head.
posted by The Whelk at 3:05 PM on August 12 [77 favorites]


This is all so fucking surreal. Expected and yet... that doesn't blunt the edge at all.

These sons of bitches.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 3:07 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


Two confirmed dead in the helicopter.
posted by Yowser at 3:10 PM on August 12




People Are Mocking White Nationalists For Marching With Literal Tiki Torches
I hope we've moved beyond that take right now. Like, literally.
posted by Flashman at 3:11 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


Police wouldn't confirm if it was a police helicopter or otherwise.
posted by Yowser at 3:12 PM on August 12


Good, because there's a chance that it would become the story of the day if they did.
posted by rhizome at 3:13 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


The Daily Progress says it was a state police helicopter.
posted by zachlipton at 3:14 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


There's been no free speech issues today. The Nazis were allowed to gather and to speak. If they had done that peacefully, they would've been allow to say whatever hateful shit they wanted without response from the government. They didn't do that. They showed up earlier than their permit and marched through an unrelated area, then at the end attacked unarmed students. Today, again prior to their permit, they showed up with pre-purchased riot shields and tactical gear, homemade body armor, clubs and chemical weapons, and attacked counter demonstrators. Oh, and then one or more of them ran over 20+ people with a car. Free speech ends when it ceases to be speech and crosses into violence.

The ACLU has not yet stated any legal positions on today's events. If they do, that will be the time to criticize their choices, especially if they come to the defense of Nazi aggressors while not defending counter protesters. That hasn't happened yet, and jumping to the conclusion that it will is unwarranted, and unnecessarily incendiary on an already fucked up day.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:15 PM on August 12 [85 favorites]


FYI the alt-right are calling the terrorist attack euphemistically a "car crash" even though it's anything but.
posted by Yowser at 3:16 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


If you're yelling at the ACLU on a day when (most likely) a Nazi murdered a protestor, maybe it's time to stop and ask yourself whether you are indulging in the toddler-like behavior of hitting whoever's closest when you're upset. It's very tempting to get especially angry at the people you think you can reach and hurt. It's not particularly wise.

The ACLU has been working on almost every major court case in defense of civil liberties during the Trump era. You can find a better target for your fury than a group that has a somewhat different assessment than you do of the wisdom of government restraint of speech. Really. You can. You can hardly take a step without tripping over one.
posted by praemunire at 3:20 PM on August 12 [108 favorites]


They're also blaming an "alt-left" guy for it. It seems that maybe the guy they're targeting sold his car used to the real perpetrator, but he's getting flack anyway all over twitter and such.

....There are early rumors of another guy's name being the "real" culprit.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:21 PM on August 12


I lived in Crozet, just outside of Charlottesville, from 2005 to 2014. This whole thing makes me want to weep for my old home.
posted by 4ster at 3:23 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


Aaaand here we have Rebel Media’s Faith Goldy appears to be right on scene w sneering anti-left commentary, just as car attacks. #cdnpoli

And she is part of the rising right that exists in Canada. Canadaland has a good podcast episode about their reach into our political system and how they influence our society and media. It's well worth a listen.

This is what I was alluding to up above in my comment about how it's not just an "American" problem. The world is facing a rising tide of hate. It's not just in someone else's backyard.
posted by Fizz at 3:24 PM on August 12 [22 favorites]


Governor McAuliffe's statement was spot on.

It's what a good President would say.
posted by yesster at 3:27 PM on August 12 [13 favorites]


I am interesting in hearing from other Metafilter members who live in Virginia. My experience of the events leading up to this has been:

- Many people believe that the city council should just leave the statues alone and that they are "neutral" historical artifacts. This appears to be a belief held by both liberals and republicans (as well as Nazis --- but the Nazi's don't really believe they are neutral; they like them because they celebrate white supremacy). This is why I found the slate article so interesting. From the beginning, those statues were never neutral.

- Outside of Charlottesville (and even somewhat within), people are unaware of the tension between African American's and the police. This tension has come onto people's radar, not just through the statue removal but also through the investigation of the disappearance (which has now homicide) of Sage Smith. When the counterprotesters stuck around after the July KKK rally and were so angry with the police, I felt that the national news media missed that this anger was in part about Sage Smith and race relations in general.

- Jason Kessler (the organizer of the Nazi rally) is a total buffoon. I knew evil could be banal, but I didn't know it could be so idiotic and blandly frat-boy wanna be. The first time I saw Kessler was at a City Council meeting where he was presenting a petition to remove Wes Bellamy from City Council. (Bellamy is the only African American on city council.) Kessler walked in with sunglasses and a boombox on his shoulder, blaring a song like his own hype man. I found him pathetic and it mystifies me how any one can follow him into anything. I am aware people share his heinous beliefs, but he is such a annoying twat.
posted by CMcG at 3:29 PM on August 12 [17 favorites]


In which a neo-Nazi tells Fox News "the fucking Jew-lovers are gassing us" and a Fox News reporter responds by saying "pardon his, uh, his French," as if the profanity is the problem here.
posted by zachlipton at 3:31 PM on August 12 [72 favorites]


And this is why we don't speculate or go looking at Facebook pages or what have you until someone in the position to confirm the news releases the name of the suspect.

Christ. We lived through it with the bombers here in Boston and it was as dangerous then as it is now.
posted by lydhre at 3:31 PM on August 12 [16 favorites]


@senorrinhatch
We should call evil by its name. My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. -OGH

Orrin, you talk good talk but at some point you're going to have to quit farting dust and step up.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:33 PM on August 12 [28 favorites]


"Criminal Homicide";They're not treating the terrorist attack as a terrorist attack.
posted by Yowser at 3:34 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


I don't know. They're still craven shit-lords, but I'm somewhat heartened that some elected Republicans seem to be denouncing this using the right language.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:34 PM on August 12 [7 favorites]


Yes, the ACLU defends the right of Nazis to demonstrate. But demonstrating is all they support

Thisthisthisthisthis.

They aren't defending the nazis against the protestors, they are suing the city over the permit to march that was revoked.

Honestly, I used to work for the ACLU, and the idea that they in any way, shape or form support nazis and white supremacists right to say anything they want and incite violence is mind-boggling. And yes, at this time they seem to have raised a good deal of money based on the work they've done under Trump; feel free to donate your money wherever you think is helpful.

Helpful reminder: the ACLU has a free app called Mobile Justice which will take videos you shoot and send them directly to the ACLU,even if the data or phone are "lost."
posted by Room 641-A at 3:35 PM on August 12 [55 favorites]


Lifelong Virginian, former Charlottesville resident and UVA alum here, the statues need to fucking go. History is cool and all, but it is unconscionable to ask black citizens to pay for the upkeep of a park which includes a statue of a famous traitor who fought to maintain slavery. Same for the statues on monument avenue in Richmond. it's not a tough call.
posted by skewed at 3:36 PM on August 12 [80 favorites]


It really is global. And it really isn't going away. I want to say something snarky about the 1% and the 27% and the Mirror Universe Media and tribal politics bullshit but I'm just sick to my stomach, because Nazis murdered and injured protesters in broad daylight and the reactions tell me that this is a starting point for escalation, not an endpoint, and half of America will wake up tomorrow and eat pancakes and act like this is all part of the expected.

In the words of Charlie Brown, my stomach hurts.
posted by delfin at 3:37 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]


CNN recently updated the chiron to "at least three killed". Shit.
posted by sylvanshine at 3:37 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


a Fox News reporter responds by saying "pardon his, uh, his French," as if the profanity is the problem here.

Well the profanity could get them in trouble with the FCC. Our wonderful First Amendment covers calling for genocide against Jews, but not saying "fuck" on the air. Don't you just feel free?
posted by traveler_ at 3:38 PM on August 12 [29 favorites]


I keep thinking of Kent State.

McAuliffe nailed it. Have Morgan Freeman read those lines and it's a wrap.
posted by spitbull at 3:38 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


McAuliffe didn't mince words. Your next President?
posted by Yowser at 3:40 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


Remember the 2009 DHS report entitled “Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment”?

August 2012: Republicans Blasted Obama Administration For Warning About Right-Wing Domestic Terrorism
But when, in 2009, the Department of Homeland Security reported that white supremacy is the US’s biggest threat for domestic terror, it was met with harsh criticism. Conservatives blasted the department for defining terror threats too broadly, instead of focusing on potential Islamic terrorists. Then-House Minority Leader Rep. John Boehner (R-OH) was one of those who berated DHS, saying that they weren’t focusing on the real threats the US faces

Regardless of what they're saying today as they try to distance themselves from their immediate past history of supporting violent rhetoric, Republicans have been stoking the conditions for today's violence for a long, long time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:41 PM on August 12 [64 favorites]


I'm the same demographic as skewed (born and raised in Virginia, went to UVa, went away for a bit, returned for four years, moved away again last summer and plan to move back in a few months if all goes to plan). The statues need to go. They have little artistic merit, and the history they represent is unconscionable. If someone wants to make a Civil War museum and stick those statues there, fine (although you'd have to be careful that it doesn't become a hero-worship museum). But leaving them on public lands, maintained by public funds, is a slap in the face of freedom.
posted by basalganglia at 3:43 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


Oh America, my heart aches.

Not the point here [mods please delete if a derail] but I thought that this was a very thoughtful way to respond to statues of racist murderers.

http://thememorypalace.us/2015/08/notes-on-an-imagined-plaque/


Those of you going to (counter-)demonstrations, please take care of yourselves and those around you... and thank you for going.
posted by stanf at 3:46 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


But leaving them on public lands, maintained by public funds, is a slap in the face of freedom.

And what's worse, the city that actually has to look at these every day is the one that chose to get rid of them. It's people elsewhere in other states, from what we know about the events of today, that want to force the local government to maintain them with their own money. It's like some perverse version of court orders in desegregation that they're aiming for.
posted by thegears at 3:47 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]






McAuliffe didn't mince words. Your next President?
Oh god, the Bernie people would have an absolute conniption. You know how they talk about Hillary as being the consummate insider who is beholden to big money and has no real principles? That's how people I know used to talk about McAuliffe, and I am a Hillary person. My sense, though, is that he's been a better governor than anyone expected, and it turns out that he does seem to have some principles. I still don't think he should run for president.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:50 PM on August 12 [7 favorites]


The Bernie people are paying attention right now, though. I think whoever brought a DSA flag to the counter protest probably noticed McAuliffe's reaction.
posted by The Gaffer at 3:54 PM on August 12


Joni fucking Ernst, who is a complete garbage human being, just put a thing on Facebook that is not terrible:
The violence in #Charlottesville that is fueled by racist hatred has no place in our society. We are one nation, under God, and indivisible. We cannot stand for this terrorism.
It is sad that this makes me feel better, but it actually does.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:55 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


Trump has now tweeted condolences with regard to the state police officers who died in the helicopter crash. He's said fuck all about the woman who was run over and killed by that man or the 19 injured (and possibly others killed, reports still coming in?). His silence isn't an accident.
posted by zachlipton at 3:55 PM on August 12 [97 favorites]


Actually, surely this.
posted by spitbull at 3:57 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]




CNN recently updated the chiron to "at least three killed". Shit.

Pretty sure that's the two in the poilice helicopter, plus the demonstrator who was run over.
posted by msalt at 3:59 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


AP: The Latest: Chopper crash linked to white nationalist rally

Officials say the deaths of two people in a helicopter crash near Charlottesville, Virginia, have been linked to a violent white nationalist rally earlier in the day.

It was not immediately clear how the crash was connected to the rally. Corinne Geller, a Virginia State Police spokeswoman, says the pilot and a passenger were killed in the crash Saturday afternoon.


I don't know what the fuck this means, if anything, but it's ominous.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:00 PM on August 12 [14 favorites]


"Do you denounce white supremacy, and shun your white supremacist supporters?" should be the only question journalists ask Trump until he gives a definitive answer.

That's it. Don't let him talk about anything else until he answers that question.
posted by yesster at 4:01 PM on August 12 [90 favorites]


The last loyalists still standing around Trump are the white nationalists that clearly want this sort of shit happening more often. Trump would rather double-down on maintaining the support of the alt-right than risk them starting to abandon him.

What's interesting is that numerous Republican elected officials are being curiously silent in all of this. It sounds like their fear of being primaried by Alt-right supporters exceeds their interest in being decent human beings.
posted by vuron at 4:01 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


Is there any non-speculative information about what caused the helicopter crash?
posted by SakuraK at 4:01 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


[Absolutely do not take this in the direction of Hillary vs Bernie.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:02 PM on August 12 [113 favorites]


Sorry @Rust Moranis, I just saw your post. Failed to preview.
posted by SakuraK at 4:02 PM on August 12


When even Pat Toomey has a better condemnation of Nazis tweet than you, you might as well just put the armband on already.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:03 PM on August 12 [26 favorites]


"Do you denounce white supremacy, and shun your white supremacist supporters?" should be the only question journalists ask Trump until he gives a definitive answer.

The list of things that should be the only question he's asked until he gives an actual answer grows pretty much weekly. Sometimes daily.

At this point, Republicans in Congress need to be asked how much worse things have to get and how much worse Trump has to behave before they actually do something.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:05 PM on August 12 [19 favorites]


Trump just tweeted condolences to the police. Nothing to the people hurt and killed by the racists.
posted by Justinian at 4:07 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


I'm so very sorry for the people of Charlottesville and the people of good will that came to protest against the neo-Nazis. I'm proud of them, and everyone else who shows up to fight oppression and prejudice.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:10 PM on August 12 [28 favorites]


What's the point of trying to get a "definitive answer"? We had a definitive answer when he used quotes from white nationalist websites, hired Steve Bannon as chief strategist, and gave Breitbart a seat in the White House press corps. Trump loves Nazis and is a white nationalist. Do we really need him to come out and say so in those exact words? No.
posted by Autumnheart at 4:17 PM on August 12 [91 favorites]


So has any journalist yet thought to ask that scumbag Gorka for a reaction? The man who is officially a deputy assistant to the President who says people should stop criticizing white supremacists so much.
posted by adamvasco at 4:20 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Trump loves Nazis and is a white nationalist. Do we really need him to come out and say so in those exact words? No.

I would argue that, at this point, yes, yes we do.
posted by lydhre at 4:21 PM on August 12 [18 favorites]


The point is not to allow anyone whatsoever any coy games about his being a white supremacist, what that means, what allies of his are also white suppremcists and what that entails.
posted by Artw at 4:21 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


i say that if he isn't a white nationalist then we goddamned need to MAKE HIM SAY SO
posted by pyramid termite at 4:22 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


Video of Trump stubbornly refusing to denounce Nazis is a very effective way to call him on his BS.
posted by msalt at 4:23 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Video of Trump stubbornly refusing to denounce Nazis is a very effective way to call him on his BS.

But, we already have multiple examples of that, from both before and after the election. Remember when he pretended not to know who David Duke is? He's stubbornly refused to denounce white nationalism in public repeatedly.
posted by biogeo at 4:27 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]


Question Congress, too, and ask them if they think what happened is terrorism. Yes or no. No answer, cut he mike, walk away.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:28 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


Hillary Clinton's statement on Twitter (threaded) seems very...pointed and tactical to me:

My heart is in Charlottesville today, and with everyone made to feel unsafe in their country. But the incitement of hatred that got us here is as real and condemnable as the white supremacists in our streets. Every minute we allow this to persist through tacit encouragement or inaction is a disgrace, & corrosive to our values. Now is the time for leaders to be strong in their words & deliberate in their actions. We will not step backward. If this is not who we are as Americans, let's prove it.

She put that out before Trump's bullshit. She subtweeted him before he spoke, knowing exactly the kind of bullshit he'd pull. And I'm sure his people are trying very hard to make sure he doesn't see she said that.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:29 PM on August 12 [134 favorites]


The ACLU are free speech absolutists and have never pretended to be anything else.

Unless they object to the government-backed intellectual property monopolies and enforcement regime, with the state busting down your door to throw you in jail if you use your freedom of speech to speak unlicensed words in public or your freedom of the press to publish unlicensed words, they aren't absolutists. Whether the IP regime should or should not exist, they're saying "all of these economically-motivated restrictions on speech and publishing are perfectly cromulent, but this other stuff..." Any actions they take or policies they observe shouldn't be evaluated from a perspective that for them free speech is so top shelf and inviolable that their elite principledness justifies anything.
posted by XMLicious at 4:32 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]




Remember when he pretended not to know who David Duke is?

That's less effective because 95% of viewers don't know who David Duke is either, and the ones who do either like Duke or already hate Trump. So it's a believable lie. Clamping his lips shut when asked to denounce white nationalists generally is different. Or so I hope, anyway.
posted by msalt at 4:32 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Seems important to note that he furthermore pretended to not know what the KKK was and to consequently be unable to make definite statements on whether it was okay to associate his campaign with an organization he wasn't familiar with.
posted by XMLicious at 4:35 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


35 minutes later: Condolences to the family of the young woman killed today, and best regards to all of those injured, in Charlottesville, Virginia. So sad!

Best regards? WTF?
posted by zachlipton at 4:35 PM on August 12 [35 favorites]


Yeah that's not what I was looking for, Donald, when I called you out for not mentioning the woman killed by racists. You're an asshole.

Best Regards,
Justinian.
posted by Justinian at 4:38 PM on August 12 [43 favorites]


I was happier when he'd failed to say anything at all.
posted by biogeo at 4:39 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


happier less miserable
posted by biogeo at 4:40 PM on August 12 [13 favorites]


"On many sides" = "but her emails"
posted by Burhanistan at 4:42 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


Side note: Tiki is actually a registered trademark for "outdoor torches", owned by Lamplight Farms. Not a good few days for that brand team.
posted by schoolgirl report at 4:45 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


Let's not forget that today Trump called on the nation to love the nazis
posted by mbo at 4:46 PM on August 12 [19 favorites]


Copied from Reddit:
So, I was there this morning.

I went with my church to counter-protest. We saw a lot of the white nationalists (read: Nazis) making their way to the "demonstration." They had shields and helmets and thick dowel rods that were used as flag poles, but were nothing more than beating sticks.

These people did not come to peaceably assemble, they came to fight.

I pulled some people out of a scrum with these people and got hit a few times for doing it. I watched as both sides hurled water bottles and other items at each other while the local police quietly watched. The counter protesters did not have shields, a few had helmets and a few had sticks of their own. I would say from 10:30 to noon about a half a dozen fist-fights broke out. There was pepper spray, there were smoke grenades. I don't know if there was tear gas, but a lot of people were running around coughing with hankies over their faces (i wasn't having issues so I gave mine to a woman who was).

I saw a lot of head wounds, which bleed easy, even if it's a small cut. I saw people getting washed down with milk of mangesia, apparently for the pepper spray.

I have been to a fair amount of protests, and this was not a protest. This was a call to violence by the right, plain and simple.

Sorry, to go on, but I need to vent about this.
posted by traveler_ at 4:48 PM on August 12 [152 favorites]


The DSA affiliated (but not limited to DSA members, it's for everyone) fundraiser for people injured in the attacks cracked 60k in 4 hours
posted by The Whelk at 4:52 PM on August 12 [13 favorites]


Joshua Green tweeted an excerpt from his book about Bannon and Trump: "We polled the race stuff and it didn't matter."

I bet there's some polls being conducted tonight. That is...fuck. I don't have any words.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:57 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]




So, I wrote that letter to the city, though I got other people to sign it, because I don't own a business downtown. It is not true that I asked them to reclassify the rally as a special event, but several media outlets reported it as such, mystifyingly. Instead, I simply asked the the relevant regulations be enforced, and suggested that they consider enforcing one additional one that wouldn't normally apply. I did this because the city seemed unable to unwilling to enforce their own regulations which, if they had done, this event would not have happened.

The city done fucked up. They have to know that now. Monday is when we'll get started on the work that will stop this from happening again.
posted by waldo at 5:05 PM on August 12 [41 favorites]


Driver identified: James Alex Fields of Ohio. NOT Facebook kid. (source: Emma Brown, Washington Post reporter -- Twitter feed)
posted by maudlin at 5:06 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]


Side note: Tiki is actually a registered trademark for "outdoor torches", owned by Lamplight Farms. Not a good few days for that brand team.

sorry, Lamplight Farms, but I for one wouldn't mind if this fresh crowd of assholes got stuck with the brand Tiki-Nazi.
posted by philip-random at 5:06 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]




Side note: Tiki is actually a registered trademark for "outdoor torches", owned by Lamplight Farms. Not a good few days for that brand team.


Or the best few days ever. The days they prove the worth of their contracts and as human being s and become marketing legends that punched the nose of nazis and put a tiki torch in every progressive yard and balcony across the nation.
posted by ian1977 at 5:07 PM on August 12


This updated WaPo story confirms the identity of the driver.
The Dodge Challenger is registered to 20-year-old James Alex Fields of Ohio, according to vehicle registration records reviewed by The Washington Post. Albemarle-Charlottesville Regional Jail Superintendent Martin Kumer told The Post that a man with the same name and age was booked Saturday on suspicion of second-degree murder, malicious wounding, failure to stop for an accident involving a death, and hit and run. Kumer said Fields is currently being held without bail.

Records show Fields last lived in Maumee, Ohio, about 15 miles southwest of Toledo.
posted by maudlin at 5:16 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


My forthright companion suggests that the design of the Tiki Torches be changed forthwith to include Stars of David, and I think further that rainbows, hearts, and as many other symbols of diversity and inclusion should go into the mix.

Truth! Integrity! Kindness! Inclusion!
posted by Devonian at 5:18 PM on August 12 [26 favorites]


I put it at 3:2 for that this dude was a regular on reddit's the_donald.
posted by Justinian at 5:20 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


I don't know that I can even post the bullshit here, but I'm sure many of you are aware there is a post on the preeminent nazi website that basically lays out how Cheeto was speaking to them, he didn't condemn them.... yeah, this is bad.

not looking forward to these guys and their plans for berkeley and sf later in the month
posted by waitangi at 5:24 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


The Dodge Challenger is registered to 20-year-old James Alex Fields of Ohio, according to vehicle registration records reviewed by The Washington Post. Albemarle-Charlottesville Regional Jail Superintendent Martin Kumer told The Post that a man with the same name and age was booked Saturday on suspicion of second-degree murder, malicious wounding, failure to stop for an accident involving a death, and hit and run. Kumer said Fields is currently being held without bail.

Is this the same person The Internet was looking at earlier?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:25 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Oh please, bring it to Berkeley, motherfuckers.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 5:26 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


Nope. Totally different guy.
posted by maudlin at 5:26 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


It should surprise no-one that JAF is a registered member of the Republican party.

Ray: No, no it isn't. Completely different guy.
posted by Justinian at 5:26 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


not looking forward to these guys and their plans for berkeley and sf later in the month

Or Seattle tomorrow.
posted by spinifex23 at 5:29 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


TIKI Brand's PR folks have weighed in, in a kind of underwhelming way:
TIKI Brand is not associated in any way with the events that took place in Charlottesville and are deeply saddened and disappointed. We do not support their message or the use of our products in this way. Our products are designed to enhance backyard gatherings and to help family and friends connect with each other at home in their yard.
posted by zamboni at 5:32 PM on August 12 [20 favorites]


waldo, I apologize for mischaracterizing the letter. I was confused by the footnote that referred to the "special event." I appreciate you providing a correction.
posted by CMcG at 5:32 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


Well, the ACLU has challenged the constitutionality of CAFA (which is the law used to drive Aaron Swartz to suicide and which was invoked against Sergey Aleynikov) for years now, were lead counsel in Association for Molecular Pathology v. Myriad Genetics (the case invalidating patents on genes per se), represented the ALA in a DeCSS case, and vigorously opposed the TPP. If your position is that it has to oppose the entire U.S. IP regime to be respected as true supporters of the First Amendment, I guess you're entitled to that opinion, but I sure don't have to respect it.
posted by praemunire at 5:35 PM on August 12 [14 favorites]


Does the ACLU discussion need its own thread?
posted by baltimoretim at 5:37 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


please stop with the Tiki stuff
posted by photoslob at 5:39 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


Family and I just left the ResistKC anti-hate rally, which was organized about noon today for a 5:30 start time. When I showed up at 5:30, there were 12 of us. When I left at 7:15 because the kids were hungry, we were at least 150-strong, and getting lots of positive feedback from the passing drivers. It made me feel a little better about the state of things. Look for the helpers.
posted by jferg at 5:42 PM on August 12 [16 favorites]


Tiki torch branding team; you gave us all a sad. Boo.
posted by ian1977 at 5:43 PM on August 12


Citronella tiki torches used to be a waste of money because they didn't dispel mosquitoes. But now it's even worse, doesn't dispel mosquitos but DOES attract Nazis.
posted by ian1977 at 5:44 PM on August 12 [40 favorites]


This was a call to violence by the right, plain and simple.

"On all sides" is insane and maddening. Tiki torches or not, you don't march with fire unless you're planning to burn something down.
posted by Standard Orange at 5:47 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


My only experience with people from outside Toledo was anti-Semitic ("Make sure you get your rent check on time - you know how those people are," my roommate's grandmother told her, and then my roommate reported to me). Driving through that part of Ohio, you see more than your fair share of confederate flags. It doesn't surprise me at all that Ohio (or, to be honest, the rest of these United States) breeds hate, violence, and white supremacy.
posted by ChuraChura at 5:48 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


I'm at a Lucinda Williams concert now and she dedicated World Without Tears to the people in Charlottesville.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:52 PM on August 12 [14 favorites]


The only two times I've been attacked because of my race were in Ohio. Once at a Denny's in Toledo and once in Columbus.

I'm really glad we have "Add to Activity" as a bookmarking option now, because I mostly lurk and want to follow the threads, but can't bring myself to favorite any of this.
posted by snickerdoodle at 5:54 PM on August 12 [19 favorites]


Those torches could be rebranded "Trump torches".
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:55 PM on August 12


I get feeling like the Tiki thing is a dumb distraction, but this is a culture war, and they don't get to be neutral. An anodyne statement like the one they made is the bare minimum to be expected, but any company that wants to be on the right side of history needs to be clear that they are aligning their brand against the Nazis. Better for them would be to follow their marketing babble with something more substantive, like:

"The use of our product in this way is so offensive to our values that we do not want any profit from it. We have estimated that at a retail price of $2.95 per torch and approximately 100 torches used during the march, about $295 were spent on our torches. Accordingly, we are donating $295, plus an equivalent matching $295 for a total of $590, to the Southern Poverty Law Center to combat hate crimes committed by those who misused our product in this way. We cannot prevent anyone from buying our torches and using them as they wish, but we are making it clear now: any time we discover that our torches have been used to spread hate and intimidation, we will translate that into a donation to the SPLC."

Make the Nazis know everyone loathes them, even the people whose crap they buy at Walmart.
posted by biogeo at 6:05 PM on August 12 [61 favorites]


Citronella tiki torches used to be a waste of money because they didn't dispel mosquitoes. But now it's even worse, doesn't dispel mosquitos but DOES attract Nazis.

This would make a great three panel comic. Panel one, guy sitting out torches for his backyard party. Panel two, guy and guests still swatting bugs. Panel three, Nazis looming out of the darkness, guests picking up huge fly-swatter.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:08 PM on August 12 [21 favorites]


REACH OUT AND SWAT FACE
posted by ian1977 at 6:10 PM on August 12 [25 favorites]


And Mary Chapin Carpenter opens her set with The Times They Are A-Changing.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:11 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


@ACLUVA still has it shit up, FWIW.
posted by Artw at 6:13 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]




Charlottesville Vice Mayor Dr. Wes Bellamy is amazing. Just finished on CNN. An inspiring voice. Will look for video.
posted by spitbull at 6:17 PM on August 12


Your honor, I clearly didn't murder anyone! Who among us has not been guilty of a little boyish car-ramming?????
posted by ian1977 at 6:19 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


i can't say much - i'm so fucking disgusted i'm afraid what i would like to say would be deleted and probably rightfully so

let's just say i'm feeling the civil war thing really strongly today and if i lived anywhere near charlottesville i'd be plotting ways to deal with that statue and fuck the consequences
posted by pyramid termite at 6:22 PM on August 12 [16 favorites]


CNN is calling it a "car-ramming", not terrorism.

More double standards from the media. If this were a person any shade darker, this would at least be an "alleged terrorist" attack on CNN. As it stands, a chyron writer (perhaps) is concerned that we can't know what was in his heart or that we should be careful that we don't ruin this poor boy's future. Infuriating.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:22 PM on August 12 [33 favorites]


The statue sucks, but it was never about the statue.
posted by Yowser at 6:23 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


Think progress preserved the responses that Storm-prefixed websites have to Trump's speech. Some of them loved it. Trump does not trust polls, (since they failed to predict his election). It's likely that he thinks a lot of his support is a silent, or unpolled, block of folks who sympathize with the guy who drove that car. Luckily he might be wrong...at least anecdotally I'm seeing a fair amount of condemnation from Trump voters.
posted by TreeRooster at 6:23 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


The statue sucks, but it was never about the statue.

yes and no - let's just say that if the nazi fucks want to make it an issue then let's rub their faces in it
posted by pyramid termite at 6:25 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Oh, sure, the VA ACLU might be fighting for the state to investigate excessive police force shown toward the counter-protesters, but their social media guy still has a tweet pointing out one counter-protester who's carrying a weapon, so they're obviously shilling for the Klan.
posted by biogeo at 6:27 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


Tracy Clayton explained on Twitter why the statues do, indeed, matter:

"I went through hell in school at Transylvania U in Lexington over this shit. glad it's happening now but if only y'all listened to us then. I'm so angry. I'm so mad. when we complained abt Confederate monuments/flags my university chose to side w racists, w Confederates, w the worst parts of this country. nothing says 'you don't matter' & 'we don't care abt you' like forcing students of color to walk in the shadow of the Confederacy. and this is what happens. this is the environment that Confederate monuments create. POC bodies are put at risk for a fantasy daily."
posted by ChuraChura at 6:28 PM on August 12 [64 favorites]


Personally I think the statue should be left in place, but incorporated into a larger statue of someone taking a shit all over him.
posted by biogeo at 6:28 PM on August 12 [11 favorites]


CNN is calling it a "car-ramming", not terrorism.
posted by T.D. Strange 8 minutes ago [1 favorite +] [!]


Fuck this in every way possible.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:29 PM on August 12 [19 favorites]


goddamn, i saw the video and you don't drive a car like that unless you're trying to hurt people
posted by pyramid termite at 6:31 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


When Ted Cruz does infinitely more to condemn white supremacy and calls for the DOJ to "investigate and prosecute this grotesque act of domestic terrorism" than the President of the United States, it makes it abundantly clear which side Trump is standing on.

THIS IS SO FUCKING EASY EVEN TED CRUZ GETS IT.
posted by zachlipton at 6:31 PM on August 12 [148 favorites]


Thoughts and prayers to anyone reading in/from Charlottesville and to anyone else terrorized by these actions.

Some thoughts on this appalling display of hate.
  • We need to call this instance of plowing into peaceful protestors for what it is: radicalized, domestic white nationalist terrorism.
  • These actions are just the latest chapter in a long history of such terrorism that started in colonial times.
  • Consequences must follow for the white nationalist radicals who attended.
  • In that vein, Sleeping Giants has the right idea: name and shame companies who give money to propagators of hate, along with images of the hate their money is supporting.
  • This tactic should be extended to people who propagate hate in meatspace and online.
  • If you post under your real name or make it possible to deduce who you are, there need to be very real consequences, such as losing a job, infamy for hate propagation, etc.
  • Corporations respond to threats to their bottom line and reputation.
  • There are more of us than they, so if we hit their employers in the pocket book with boycotts and threats to their reputation, we can affect change.
  • Individuals without money have a harder time traveling long distances, getting arrested, and driving fancy cars through crowds.
  • These hateful radicals need to again be scared that they will lose their livelihoods. It again must be unacceptable to show up to a Klan rally.
I am scared. Nevertheless, we shall persist.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:34 PM on August 12 [55 favorites]


But if they wanted to, Cruz and other Republican congresspeople could take an immediate, major step to quell domestic terrorism: impeach the president who's giving them aid and comfort.
posted by biogeo at 6:35 PM on August 12 [71 favorites]


So, I went on facebook and specifically called out people who had previously supported the various state bills to criminalize protesting in streets and indemnify people who drove into them, and so far the response has been "well I certainly don't support vehicular manslaughter I don't know how you misread that" and "I still say they shouldn't be in the street". So that's ... depressing.
posted by ckape at 6:35 PM on August 12 [16 favorites]


goddamn, i saw the video and you don't drive a car like that unless you're trying to hurt people

Yep. He had room to build up speed. He also had a clear path for a getaway, which means he couldn't have been "mobbed" or "scared." The open road behind him and the open pathways to either side didn't intimidate him into ramming the crowd up ahead.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:39 PM on August 12 [16 favorites]


Even if all the people were out of the street, he hit cars with people in them. And sidewalks are easily enough breached.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:42 PM on August 12


Anyone else feel that chilly draft? That's the sucking sound of GOP congressional support finally being significantly and seriously withheld. I'm not trying to make light of the fear and the loss of life, or give cover to house or senate repubs, but the moron in chief keeps giving the leg branch reasons to turn on him HARD. Stay safe and never stop hoping and resisting. The people united shall never be defeated.
posted by vrakatar at 6:44 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


Anyone else feel that chilly draft? That's the sucking sound of GOP congressional support finally being significantly and seriously withheld.

Where are you seeing this?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:51 PM on August 12 [20 favorites]


I want to see the Chiefs of Police stand up and denounce this, and commit that they will be prepared for any nazi parties and anyone acting in an unlawful manner will be arrested. And that includes hate speech.

goddamn, i saw the video and you don't drive a car like that unless you're trying to hurt people

HuffPo: James Alex Fields Jr.... is charged with one count of 2nd degree murder, 3 counts of malicious wounding and one count of failing to stop at an accident resulting in a death,” Col. Martin Kumer, the superintendent of Albemarle-Charlottesville Regional Jail, told HuffPost in an email.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:52 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


idk but aren't those sort of light charges for deliberately and probably premeditatedly driving really fast into human beings? why not first degree?
posted by angrycat at 6:56 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]


James Alex Fields Jr.... is charged with one count of 2nd degree murder, 3 counts of malicious wounding and one count of failing to stop at an accident resulting in a death

They should charge him with hate crimes.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:56 PM on August 12 [18 favorites]


One other thought: There need to be many, many pointed questions for elected Republicans like Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Marco Rubio, Jeff Flake, and anyone who supported Donald the White Nationalist last year. I want to know whether they think the institutional Republican party bear any responsibility for attracting shitflies like David Duke and Richard Spencer to their banner. I want to know what it was in their platform that made those Neo-Nazi copraphages feel so at home in the Republican party. If they don't understand the role that they, the so-called leaders of the Republican party, played in the growth of domestic, radical, white supremacist action within the United States, then their condemnations aren't really worth much more than used toilet paper.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:56 PM on August 12 [42 favorites]


Even if all the people were out of the street, he hit cars with people in them. And sidewalks are easily enough breached.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read the car attack happened in the pedestrian mall in Charlottesville. It's basically an outdoor mall area with restaurants and an Urban Outfitters. It looks like the car drove down one of the through streets where pedestrians have right of way and the speed limit is 10 mph.

My wife and I have spent the first week in June for the last 7-8 years attending the Look3 photography festival in Charlottesville. My wife is from VA and we love Charlottesville and this news breaks our hearts. I'm so over this shit. Every day shit gets just a little worse. This country has truly come off the rails.
posted by photoslob at 6:57 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


Yeah. I see a handful of GOP reps making the minimally acceptable statements that explicitly condemn white supremacy, instead of just "violence" in general, and just a couple that have directly said the President has to do more. Those are good things, but I've seen nobody withholding support or giving any indication they won't go along with everything else Trump wants when it's time for them to actually vote.
posted by zachlipton at 6:57 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


I will be totally honest, I am relieved that the guy is being charged with murder. I was at a solidarity with Ferguson protest a few years ago now and a car drove through it, hitting someone and sending them to the hospital in an ambulance, and nothing happened to that guy because he was "scared" and "panicked", even though that was obviously not what happened. At least they're calling this murder and not something else.
posted by Frowner at 6:57 PM on August 12 [75 favorites]


Anyone else feel that chilly draft? That's the sucking sound of GOP congressional support finally being significantly and seriously withheld. I'm not trying to make light of the fear and the loss of life, or give cover to house or senate repubs, but the moron in chief keeps giving the leg branch reasons to turn on him HARD. Stay safe and never stop hoping and resisting. The people united shall never be defeated.

[citation extremely fucking needed]
posted by duffell at 6:57 PM on August 12 [19 favorites]


Any charges sticking at all will be a minor miracle, the system is specifically set up to protect guys like this.
posted by Artw at 6:59 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


I want to see the Chiefs of Police stand up and denounce this, and commit that they will be prepared for any nazi parties and anyone acting in an unlawful manner will be arrested. And that includes hate speech.

Speaking of (ex-) cops...
posted by non canadian guy at 7:00 PM on August 12


Yeah, I'm not holding my breath that the GOP is going to turn away from Trump over his weaksauce response to this. He's done and said far worse with impunity. He once said that he (or his supporters, I dont remember which and really dont want to look up the quote right now) could kill people and he wouldnt lose support. That's what happened today. The only difference is that he promised the murder would happen in Times Square, and instead it was on Main St, Small Town, USA.
posted by basalganglia at 7:00 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


[One deleted - if people want to dig deeper into regular politics, midterm elections etc maybe take that over to the regular politics thread; let's keep this thread more to the specifically Charlottesville-related stuff.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:00 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


I'm glad he's being charged with murder, but I'll be happier less miserable if he's charged with terrorism.
posted by biogeo at 7:01 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


I'm glad he's being charged with murder, but I'll be happier less miserable if he's charged with terrorism.

That'd be a federal charge. I'm sure Jefferson Beauregard Sessions will be on top of it right quick.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:04 PM on August 12 [34 favorites]


Virginia also has terrorism laws.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:09 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


Is there a way we can block tv and radio signals from going into space for a while?

Because if there is intelligent life out there, we are really not putting our best foot forward this week.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:10 PM on August 12 [7 favorites]


Massachusetts State Police statement: "We condemn the bigotry - and those who preach it - that sparked today's violence."
posted by adamg at 7:15 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


Like she said, "deplorables".
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:17 PM on August 12 [51 favorites]




"I went through hell in school at Transylvania U in Lexington over this shit.

Lexington's Mayor Jim Gray was already planning to have those statues taken down (well, relocated to a visitor's center), and just doubled down on doing it earlier today.

And laughably in hindsight, Mitch McConnell and Gov. Matt Bevin both called for the removal of confederate statues during Bevin's 2015 campaign, which was of course never spoken of ever again the day he won.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:24 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


This photo of Cornel West marching with other faith leaders legit made me cry.
posted by Phire at 7:24 PM on August 12 [18 favorites]


Well, supposedly the first VHF television broadcast that could have had enough energy to make it through the ionosphere was Hitler during the 1936 Olympics, so this week might not stand out for alien life as all that unusual...
posted by biogeo at 7:25 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


[A few deleted; again maybe not so much with the recriminations over the election]
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:47 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


Who drove over protestors in Charlottesville? a biography
The car that plowed through crowds of anti-white nationalists in Charlottesville, Virginia Saturday is owned by a Confederate Flag activist from Oklahoma with connections to far right militia groups, numerous documents and other white nationalists confirm.
posted by adamvasco at 7:48 PM on August 12 [20 favorites]


@waldojaquith - My mentions, currently, are full of people who think that I supported Nazis coming to Charlottesville, instead of working hard against it.
posted by Artw at 7:50 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Which, you know. Good for him, but he should resign from that board.
posted by Artw at 7:50 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


I'm giving my rage an outlet by watching the original version of The Dirty Dozen. If you've never seen it, the plot is basically Lee Marvin and eleven other guys murdering the shit out of Nazis. I don't mean killing in the line of combat, either. The plot is literally that there is a plan to aid the war effort by murdering a shit ton of Nazi officers while they are at a resort, just coming up on them without warning then shooting, stabbing, burning, or blowing them up.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:51 PM on August 12 [26 favorites]


Which, you know. Good for him, but he should resign from that board.

To be clear, you're speaking to him directly, because he's already here in this thread.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:53 PM on August 12 [14 favorites]


Unsurprisingly, the NYT is exploring new depths of passive voice to avoid placing blame on any particular human being: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence

Car hits. All on its own. This is how the narrative goes when it's a white Republican man. By tomorrow there will be 40 columns calling him a good kid, he was scared, who just made a mistake, not to let this ruin the rest of his life.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:53 PM on August 12 [84 favorites]


This is an important thread by Adam Jentleson on how the condemnation media cycle works for Republicans:
Having participated from the Dem side in a few "do you condemn what Trump said?" media cycles, this one will be interesting to watch. 1/
It'll be interesting to see if the media finally breaks the cycle of pushing Rs to calibrate their statements correctly then backing off. 2/
Rs and their staff have become adept at figuring out exactly what "condemnation" language will let them off the hook with the press. 3/
Ryan's two-step today was instructive:

"This work? No? I gotta condemn white supremacy specifically?"

7 hours later: "OK, here you go." 4/
If all the press demands are words, Republican leaders will eventually find satisfactory ones. It's time to stop letting words be enough. 5/
GOP leaders are capable - more than anyone else in America - of taking ACTION to deny Trump the power to support white supremacists. 6/
The excuse you usually hear from reporters is, "what do you expect them to do - Trump is their president, after all." Well... 7/
Mike Pence would have a better chance than Trump of enacting tax cuts, and all the other things Ryan and McConnell want, as President. 8/
Look for actions, not words. Look for what people say first, not their fourth tries. Look for those who didn't have to be repeatedly asked to say the right thing before they begrudgingly did. Just look at how many tries it took before Trump begrudgingly disavowed David Duke.
posted by zachlipton at 7:58 PM on August 12 [57 favorites]


I'm giving my rage an outlet by watching the original version of The Dirty Dozen. If you've never seen it, the plot is basically Lee Marvin and eleven other guys murdering the shit out of Nazis.

On a related note, I'm watching "Spies Are Forever" and just sat through a song called "The Nazis Are Not So Bad." This wasn't where I was expecting this to go. I hope there's some Nazi pounding in Act 2.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:59 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Oh, and they just mentioned Vladimir Poopin.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:02 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


yeah this mealy-mouthed nyt shit is emblematic of why i could never bring myself to get on board the huge subscription push after the election. sure y'all, apologize for your election coverage, but then you actually have to do things differently. i'm not asking for you to be amy goodman or anything, but CHRIST, call a spade a spade. (to be clear, amy goodman is a national treasure.)
posted by Ragini at 8:02 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


So, I am with the family at the cottage of some relatives, and have spent the weekend reading, eating good food, and relaxing. I was outside early glorying at the skies free of light pollution and clouds so we could look at the Perseids tonight. I so rarely get a chance to look at the Milky Way, as I was an hour or so ago.

I have looked at MeFi only a little this weekend, mostly shaking my head at the North Korea stuff. I read pretty much the entirety of this thread in one go just now and am grinding away tooth enamel with rage and frustration at what has happened at how 45 is handling murder and attempted murders by white supremacists. Lacking any better avenue to vent this, I headed into the room occasionally used by a clueless right wing relative (note: we are both Canadian) and tore down that stupid fucking Confederate battle flag he has had as one of the wall decorations for years. I tossed it in the garbage but I am open to other suggestions as to what to do with it.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:04 PM on August 12 [33 favorites]


@waldojaquith I just resigned from the ACLU of Virginia board.

What’s legal and what’s right are sometimes different. I won’t be a fig leaf for Nazis.

posted by Artw at 8:07 PM on August 12 [19 favorites]


burn it, burn it, burn it
posted by pyramid termite at 8:08 PM on August 12 [13 favorites]


Ok so the suspect's facebook page is full of pepe and 4chan meme shit, plus neo nazi imagery. So there's no question about where he was coming from. None.
posted by Justinian at 8:09 PM on August 12 [40 favorites]


Trump didn't even pretend to put out a tepid condemnation of the White Nationalism which it's become clear that this individual was clearly associated with. That the White House spokespeople didn't even back away from his bothsiderism when pressed on it clearly indicates that his remarks were indicative of the Trump Administration position.

That he clearly tried to use this tragedy to trumpet his own "achievements" in office rather than go with a typical short sombre expression of grief just shows how completely out-of-touch Trump is at the current time or perhaps how desperate he is to maintain the loyalty of the Alt-Right and presumably the people financing the alt-right.
posted by vuron at 8:10 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


The murdering fuck was there marching with American Vanguard.Photos.
posted by odinsdream at 8:11 PM on August 12 [24 favorites]


When Ted Cruz does infinitely more to condemn white supremacy and calls for the DOJ to "investigate and prosecute this grotesque act of domestic terrorism" than the President of the United States, it makes it abundantly clear which side Trump is standing on.

THIS IS SO FUCKING EASY EVEN TED CRUZ GETS IT.
Perhaps this belongs in the other thread, but I think a mistake a lot of us initially made -- even here -- was to think that Cruz was to the right of Trump. Of course, what we've discovered is that we've actually elected the most right-wing president in over a century; we all expected that Trump would be terrible, a nuclear threat, and a passive nazi sympathizer, but many of us (though by no means all!) failed to realize he was an actual, active nazi. I think this speaks to the question of Trump's intentionality: it is common to say, even now, that Trump has no ideology, that he is just a bundle of narcissistic chaos in the thrall of whoever speaks in his ear. And perhaps that's true. But it just shows that the "chaotic evil" framework -- a joke, but I think a guiding principle in many Trump analyses -- is deeply misleading, particularly in its implication that "chaotic evil" is somehow to the left of the pure evil of someone like Cruz. Rather, the chaos is what allows Trump's evil to exceed even Cruz, and go far beyond what the majority of his long-standing critics imagined even fairly recently. It takes a certain amount of "not getting it" to be truly evil, since being truly evil goes beyond self-interest or even cruelty into something more unfathomable and destructive. We all balk at understanding, or even trying to understand, what the hell motivates these nazis. But we know: we elected one. We understand each and every one of these people far better than we did a few short months ago, and the short answer is that their brand of chaos is in fact far more dangerous than even Cruz's malevolent scheming. We have entered a profoundly dangerous period, and as ever the only real thing standing in their way is the vast majority of sane, decent people who oppose them.
posted by chortly at 8:21 PM on August 12 [25 favorites]


Elsewhere in Charlottesville...

(will the NYT characterize it as "poles hit..."?)
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:23 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


I greatly dig this tweet by rapper Open Mike Eagle:
"nazis and confederates are white people that lost wars to other white people but somehow its still brown people's fault"

(Do check out his music when you get a chance. Intelligent, socially conscious rap somewhat similar to the best such music of rap's Golden Age in the 90s. Look for Dark Comedy Late Show, Dark Comedy Morning Show, Celebrity Reduction Prayer, and A Modern History of Dance. The last 3 have great videos on YouTube.)
posted by lord_wolf at 8:26 PM on August 12 [105 favorites]


from Fox News which I suppose finally decided to report on this:
Field's mother, Samantha Bloom, told The Associated Press on Saturday night that she knew her son was attending a rally in Virginia but didn't know it was a white supremacist rally.

"I thought it had something to do with Trump. Trump's not a white supremacist," Bloom said.

"He had an African-American friend so ...," she said before her voice trailed off. She added that she'd be surprised if her son's views were that far right.
[swear on the dao this is real]
posted by anem0ne at 8:28 PM on August 12 [72 favorites]


"I thought it had something to do with Trump. Trump's not a white supremacist," Bloom said.

I got some bad news for you, lady.
posted by Justinian at 8:30 PM on August 12 [40 favorites]


Local reporters were the ones who broke the news to Bloom. She hadn't been contacted by the authorities yet.
posted by zachlipton at 8:32 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


He's already the victim in Republican media, the same day of committing a terror attack.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:34 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Elsewhere in Charlottesville...


Basically, these nazis apparently went around town beating and attacking Black people - they're saying that there weren't any police around and that a lot of stuff didn't even get reported to the police but is just floating around on social media, which tells you what kind of justice people think they'll get.

This is on the continuum with the Tulsa Riot and other white riots of that kind. That is what we're living through. We've got to pay attention - these are those times come again.

I think that it's in some ways even more important that people all over this country know and understand that these things are happening. It is easy for people to dismiss what happens to protesters - partly out of general American hatred of activists and the left. But people need to understand that Black people in particular can't hide from this stuff by staying home, and anyone with any sense understands that this is a "first they came for" situation.
posted by Frowner at 8:38 PM on August 12 [94 favorites]


"I thought it had something to do with Trump. Trump's not a white supremacist," Bloom said.

Well, she's half right.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:38 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


Fields has a promising future, once he gets this little legal problem behind him, with the Right Wing Media (see: Oliver North). A good co-host with James Damore.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:42 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


Basically, these nazis apparently went around town beating and attacking Black people - they're saying that there weren't any police around and that a lot of stuff didn't even get reported to the police but is just floating around on social media, which tells you what kind of justice people think they'll get.

ProPublica has a good early story on this: Police Stood By As Mayhem Mounted in Charlottesville.
posted by zachlipton at 8:43 PM on August 12 [44 favorites]


We've been super busy, I know, shutting down the phone lines of our representatives in Congress and for good reason. I think it's time to shut down the phone lines of the New York Time, the Washington Post, NPR, and any other mainstream media outlet that doesn't call this terrorist attack what it is. I am tired of the bullshit propagated way too often by these folks. I plan to call basically everyone I can call at the Times tomorrow and I hope some of you will join me.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:48 PM on August 12 [39 favorites]


Of course he's already the victim in right-wing media. If you've been peddling the fairy tale that the world is out to get poor innocent white men for decades it's kinda hard to do a 180 and go with the narrative that this guy was radicalized by hate just as much as any foreign terrorist which are the typical boogeymen of the right.

So even when the evidence if unsurmountable it just becomes a "false flag" operation carried out by the left to tarnish the reputations of the alt-right. It's just another bit of no true Scotsman logical fallacy that the right likes to use to excuse the horrible actions of some of their true believers.
posted by vuron at 8:49 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


@yesyoureracist is identifying nazis. (did someone already say this? Sorry if redundant)
posted by sacchan at 8:55 PM on August 12 [30 favorites]


That's good stuff. Here's a picture of endangered Republican Senator Dean Heller of Nevada taking a break from working to strip healthcare from millions of Nevadans to pose with a white supremacist! No doubt it filled him with renewed resolve to help kill tens of thousands of poor minority Nevadans.
posted by Justinian at 9:02 PM on August 12 [28 favorites]




In case anyone is wondering how /r/The_Donald is reacting to all this:

- "Unite the Right" is a Soros-funded honeypot psyop that employs the "Pied Piper" strategy to damage the Republican brand by insinuating that Antifa goons disguised as Nazis represent the views of the entire Right Wing in America (This is what Creamer and Democracy Partners have been up to lately)
(that's all one topic title)

- FOX RIGHT NOW = "3 PEOPLE KILLED AMID CLASHES" - 2 died in an helicopter ACCIDENT - THEY WERN'T "KILLED AMID CLASHES" YOU IDIOTS

- We just entered a new phase today. What happened in Charlotte will be used by the left and the deep state in a final attempt to destroy Trump and his supporters. We must unite and be prepared for a very well organized battle.

- INFOWARS EXCLUSIVE: Virginia Riots Staged To Bring In Martial Law, Ban Conservative Gatherings

- Tucker is to Fox what The_Donald is to Reddit... I don't watch Fox, I watch Tucker. I don't go to Reddit, I go to The_Donald. Fox and Reddit are cucked.


I detect a note of panic.
posted by msalt at 9:07 PM on August 12 [21 favorites]


I do appreciate Republican legislators announcing that they condemn Nazism and the KKK. But as has been said, actions speak louder than words. And in addition, I feel like there is profiteering going on here. Many Republicans tweeting their anti-Nazi stances have not pushed back in any way against the myriad bigoted Trump administration initiatives--the ban on travellers from Muslim nations, the wave of deportations, the plan to halve legal immigration, the initiative to sue universities for supposedly discriminating against white applicants, the promise to kick trans people out of the military, etc. etc. etc.. But now they paint themselves as "reasonable and moderate conservatives" by declaring their are not in favor of Nazism or murder.

No. If you are against bigotry, then you have to oppose it in your actions, not just say, "Look, I have drawn the line. Carrying swastika flags is un-American!"

Though I agree, it's at least better than saying, "There was violence on both sides. Sad!"
posted by DrMew at 9:10 PM on August 12 [26 favorites]




.
posted by Deoridhe at 9:15 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]



Video (Twitter): David Duke today in #Charlottesville talking how how the hate rally "fulfills the promises of Donald Trump

To Duke and Trump: You'll take this country back over my dead, queer, Sincangu Lakota body.

This country is MINE! IT'S MINE!

My grandfather was taken from his family when he was only seven years old. Then he enlisted in the Army to fight the Nazis.

I've inherited his right punch and his left hook.
posted by blessedlyndie at 9:21 PM on August 12 [93 favorites]


Photo of one fight where a group of Nazis were beating up a black kid in a parking garage. He got away but was injured.
posted by emjaybee at 9:22 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


.
posted by daq at 9:24 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]




James Alex Fields Jr.... is charged with one count of 2nd degree murder,

There is hope! That's enough to trigger ( if a prosecutor wanted to go for the throat ) VA State terrorism charges IF the case is made that he intended to intimidate them in general. Again, it's there if they want to use it. I doubt they will.
posted by mikelieman at 9:40 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


Photo of one fight where a group of Nazis were beating up a black kid in a parking garage. He got away but was injured.

This is how civil war starts. Americans think the are immune because they are so wealthy or some shit. I got news for you, you aren't wealthy and you aren't immune. The minute you stop treating an attack like this as if it were perpetuated on your own child you have lost. America was on an economic upswing during the civil rights movement and it survived. We've been on a downswing for 25 years, this is not a country with much fortitude, people here crumble at the slightest problem. It's possible US democracy won't survive this. Maybe it shouldn't, if people think this is ok.

I hope with all my heart this kid is OK and he gets justice.
posted by fshgrl at 9:42 PM on August 12 [30 favorites]



Um, so Drudge.

This is the top of his page right now.

MAKE AMERICA HATE AGAIN!
CHAOS AT RACE RALLY IN VIRGINIA

which links to Daily Mail article which has one hell of a headline.

Woman is killed and 19 hurt as car plows into anti-fascists at white nationalist rally: Driver 'intentionally' accelerates into crowd and is arrested after riot cops use tear gas to break up violent clashes

Here is a cold link if anyone wants to copy and go there. I don't like direct linking these folks.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4783914/White-nationalists-hold-torch-lit-march-UVA-campus.html
posted by Jalliah at 9:46 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Terrorism is exactly what this is - it's meant to make people think twice before going to a protest. I don't think it's going to work though.

The kid is probably going to try the "hey, I was just driving down the road all legal-like, then all of the sudden all these people appeared in the legal roadway, distracting me, and then... well clearly if they hadn't illegally been in the road they would have been fine." victim's-own-negligence bullshit.
posted by ctmf at 9:46 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


He'll just say the car with the conveniently tinted windows was stolen.
posted by Yowser at 9:54 PM on August 12


Jesus fucking Christ.
posted by gucci mane at 9:54 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


He'll just say the car with the conveniently tinted windows was stolen.

Won't fly. Even if he wasn't nabbed with his vehicle he'll have bruising from the seat belt when he collided with the other car.
posted by Justinian at 9:56 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


I detect a note of panic.

Panic is the default state of the know-nothing nationalist when they're not gloating about an imminent or recent victory. If they aren't furiously masturbating at the overwhelming masculine superiority of their sun-dried Führer, they are tearing their hair out about the enemy horde poised to storm the gate. To quote Eco, "The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. [...] However, the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak."
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 10:00 PM on August 12 [38 favorites]


There's video footage of the car accelerating into the crowd and photographs in which the driver's face is identifiable as his. The Virginia Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and Attorney General are all Democrats who will be eager to make an example of this guy. They'll probably pursue the death penalty if the law allows for it.
posted by biogeo at 10:02 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


Watch the Republicans scramble to distance themselves from Nazis they embraced yesterday:

Dean Heller runs from taking picture with a Nazi

The University of Nevada College Republicans delete pictures of their Nazi member
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:03 PM on August 12 [26 favorites]


Surprised they aren't just trying to photoshop them out.
posted by biogeo at 10:08 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


I headed into the room occasionally used by a clueless right wing relative (note: we are both Canadian) and tore down that stupid fucking Confederate battle flag he has had as one of the wall decorations for years.

So, this isn't to specifically call you out ricochet biscuit, because individual situations are complex and you're in Canada, which means this is all a little remote for you. But down here in the former confederacy, there's no WAY I would spend any time in a house with a confederate flag decoration. And I feel like this is something we well-meaning white people need to get a LOT better about.

My husband and I don't speak to his parents anymore. The reasons are complicated, but a BIG part of it is their racism. For a while we would go to their house and sit around talking until the inevitable moment when his mom started in about the "n-words" and then we would just stand up and say "gee, it's late, gotta get going." Just, nope, not gonna sit here and listen to this.

But even then, I could never imagine my in-laws with Confederate flags anywhere. They weren't Out and Proud racists, just casual slur racists. They didn't want their coworkers to know how they talked at home. It wasn't important enough to them to fly a flag or put a sticker on their truck. Cause this is Texas, and we Know what that flag means, even if people won't always admit it.

But eventually it got to the point where my husband told his parents "look, if you're going to talk like that, I don't want to be around you." (Which led to "you can't tell me how to talk in my own house" and "then I won't come into your house again.") And I think that's what we really need to do more often. I'm a Southern-socialized woman, I understand the urge not to cause strife and to just go along to get along.

But you know, fuck that. If you're going to be hateful, if you're going to treat a Confederate flag as a decoration, then I'm not going to be around you. I'm not going to ride in your car with the sticker on it, and I'm not going to visit the house flying that flag on a pole in their front lawn (like one house near me). If I'm dealing with you professionally, fine I'll be polite. But otherwise, fuck these fucking racists. Racism isn't like an illness or bad habit like chewing your food with your mouth open that everyone just looks away from and pretends isn't happening, because you know that's just how Uncle Jack is.

We, as white people, have GOT to stop worrying about hurting the feelings of white supremacists.
posted by threeturtles at 10:14 PM on August 12 [168 favorites]


Romney's senior campaign strategist.

@stuartpstevens:
Hate is driven by fear. Racists fear a society where being white no longer gives them unfair advantage. Their fear should be our goal.

@XIVLegio:
What are the unfair advantages you enjoy Stuart?

@stuartpstevens:
I think that might have first started hitting me when I realized that I was the same color as the "flesh" crayon in my Crayola crayon box.
posted by chris24 at 10:18 PM on August 12 [96 favorites]


@XIVLegio:

What the heck is with these racist assholes and Rome? Fuck them, I disavow.
posted by Justinian at 10:22 PM on August 12 [24 favorites]


From WaPo:
“The violence and deaths in Charlottesville strike at the heart of American law and justice,” U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in a statement. “When such actions arise from racial bigotry and hatred, they betray our core values and cannot be tolerated.”
That's a surprisingly strong statement from Sessions.
posted by nnethercote at 10:22 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


Words are just words and I don't believe Sessions for a second, but I have to wonder what it is that's got the Republicans scared enough that Jefferson Beauregard Sessions isn't just giving a limp "what he said" parroting of Trump on this. Internal polling worse than the recent public polls? But if that were the case I'd have expected human backup plan Mike Pence to go stronger than Trump and he hasn't.

Maybe it's the old Klan "hide behind a hood" mentality, and Sessions hasn't embraced the Trumpian "let it all hang out because the base doesn't care" philosophy.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:31 PM on August 12 [20 favorites]


we'll see if 'not tolerated' == federal charges and a doj investigation into wtf-cville-popo?
posted by j_curiouser at 10:31 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


but I have to wonder what it is that's got the Republicans scared enough that Jefferson Beauregard Sessions isn't just giving a limp "what he said" parroting of Trump on this.

I dunno. Everyone from Mitt Romney to Ted Cruz is out on Twitter & elsewhere showing that literally anyone else in the Republican party would be better than Trump. Sessions probably felt more pressure from that than from the boss who has been loudly and publicly treating him like shit for months.

Besides, as noted, it's just words. Sessions will surprise me only when and if he takes any real action against these Nazi assholes.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:35 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


Stop the "Alt-Right": We beat 'em before; we'll beat 'em now

I have to wonder what it is that's got the Republicans scared enough that Jefferson Beauregard Sessions isn't just giving a limp "what he said" parroting of Trump on this. Internal polling worse than the recent public polls?

Maybe their big donors are cutting bait with regards to Trump? It's already been a notably bad week (even in the context of his awful presidency!), and then this happened.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:37 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


I can't bring myself to watch the video footage of the car attack but saw an aerial shot of the intersection after the incident. In the shot, there's another car that seems to have collided with the attack car from behind--can someone fill in on what happened there? And what are these photos I'm seeing of other cars with damaged bumpers and so on?
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 10:40 PM on August 12


So I just had an emotional meltdown about today. It feels like we're at the end of the beginning, and the next chapter will be ruled by angry white men and blonde princesses.
posted by SakuraK at 10:41 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


“The violence and deaths in Charlottesville strike at the heart of American law and justice,” U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in a statement. “When such actions arise from racial bigotry and hatred, they betray our core values and cannot be tolerated.”

betray: unintentionally reveal; be evidence of
posted by uosuaq at 10:41 PM on August 12 [41 favorites]


Won't fly. Even if he wasn't nabbed with his vehicle he'll have bruising from the seat belt when he collided with the other car.

Good point, Justinian -- and that should also have triggered his airbag, shouldn't it?

Unless of course the airbag was defective -- or perhaps deliberately disabled, because if you planned to smash into people with your car, it wouldn't do to have the airbag deploy prematurely and cut the whole thing short, not to mention making it harder for you to get away.

So if the prosecution could show that the airbag was tampered with, that might go a long way toward disposing of any claims that the driver acted out of fear or on impulse.
posted by jamjam at 10:42 PM on August 12 [7 favorites]


In the shot, there's another car that seems to have collided with the attack car from behind--can someone fill in on what happened there? And what are these photos I'm seeing of other cars with damaged bumpers and so on?

There were (at least) two stopped cars on the road near the crowd, and the attacking car rear-ended the second car, which then hit the first. The attacker then backed up and fled the scene.

There's a photo circulating of a damaged trunk with a religious personalized plate, and that is not the attacking car. It's one of the other cars that was hit.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:44 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


It feels like we're at the end of the beginning, and the next chapter will be ruled by angry white men and blonde princesses.

That's been every chapter so far, we need some better writers.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:44 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


My father fought in World War II.

Yeah, that makes me old. My father was about fifty when I was born; my mom was in her thirties. I'm now the age my father was when he died; it turns out that cigarette habit he picked up in the war wasn't good for him.

I don't remember him, of course. All I have are a few blurry photograhs of him and a book that he wrote about his experiences in the war.

This whole nation went to war to fight the Nazis in Europe. We mobilized our entire industrial base to beat the crap out of them. Whatever else might be said about the war, our campaign against the Hitler administration was right, and just, and we were lauded as heroes for doing our part to depose that maniac and the racist garbage who supported him.

Our identity as a nation is built upon those years; we came together as a country to do something unquestionably right. When we talk about the generation who fought that war, we speak with respect, because they sacrificed so much to the fight. Hundreds of thousands of Americans went voluntarily to their deaths to stop this toxic ideology.

And now, Nazis are claiming that this ideology is somehow American. That hatred, bigotry and lies are the American way. That they can declare themselves the superior race, and make hatred the law of the land, and threaten and intimidate their way into power.

Well, maybe they can. Maybe they have.

Now that they're flying their colors in the open, though, now that they're abandoning the dogwhistles that hinted at their bigotry and have given full voice to their true intentions, I think they're going to figure out something that they've forgotten about Americans.

We fight Nazis.

It's part of our identity. We've grown up watching Indiana Jones, and Superman, and the guy from Doom, and John Wayne, and basically every action hero ever fighting Nazis. Nazis are the standard movie villain for a reason; they're easy to hate. You can sum up their world view in a quick soliloquy by a beefy-looking bad guy, and your audience is on board with whatever mayhem you can inflict upon them.

If you can embrace an ideology that morally bankrupt, that transparently selfish, that stupidly hateful, then you're inviting the riducule of the world to be heaped upon you. And if you resort to violence in service of that ideology, then you have given the decent people of the world an open invitation to retaliate.

Do you know how hard it is, as a decent person, to find a good fight to get into? How difficult it is to find human beings so despicable, so hateful, so dedicated to violence that violence is an appropriate response? The amoral garbage of the world can get in fights whenever they want, so this doesn't occur to them. But there are decent, good folk who've nevertheless been itching for a good fight against an actual, honest to god bad guy their whole lives.

Now that the Trump administration has given all the Nazis permission to come out of the closet, I think they're going to find America a lot less welcoming than they assumed. I think they're going to be surprised at how deeply ingrained fighting Nazis is to our identity, and how long we've been spoiling for a fight.

Once America mobilized by the millions to fight a Nazi threat thousands of miles away. Now the Nazis are here, and they're trying to take over the country.

But there are millions of good Americans standing in their way.

These doughy khaki-wearing golf-shirt Tiki Nazis have invited the wrath of every decent American upon themselves by declaring their alliance with a long-defeated ideology of hatred and violence. They've made themselves into villains, and not just villains, but stupid villains.

My father left his life behind, and went overseas to fight Nazis. Millions of Americans did. We defeated massive, mechanized armies, we overran countries, we bombed cities to ashes, we sacrificed our own children to stop this ideology from threatening the world.

I think Americans are going to step up again. I think we're heroes at heart.

And heroes fight Nazis.
posted by MrVisible at 10:49 PM on August 12 [184 favorites]


The car the terrorist was driving isn't actually visible in the aerial footage I saw, only the two cars that were hit by it. Those two cars were in the middle of the crowd of people. The terrorist drove through humans at about 40 MPH and into the rear of one car, which then hit the rear of the next car, which then hit more humans. The terrorist then backed up and drove away. In the aerial footage taken by a drone, the terrorist's car almost entirely obscured by a building, and only the two cars which were forced forward by the impact are actually seen emerging from behind the building.
posted by biogeo at 10:55 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


The white racist Christian men aren't sending us their best.
posted by SakuraK at 11:00 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


In case anyone is wondering how /r/The_Donald is reacting to all this:

i have not once at any time for any reason wondered this actually
posted by poffin boffin at 11:04 PM on August 12 [103 favorites]




Man, Dean Heller is so fucked in 2018.
posted by triggerfinger at 11:12 PM on August 12 [9 favorites]


surprisingly strong statement from Sessions.

From one who knows well the views from inside the hood of hatred. #WhitePossumDown
posted by moonbird at 11:16 PM on August 12


We fight Nazis.

Well, we also fought the Japanese, and that appeared in the wartime propaganda somewhat detached from politics and mostly racist (also the Italian Fascists, but they were mostly absent from our anti-Axis propaganda). My father volunteered for the Marines, and because of his Germanic surname (it even rhymes with 'Hitler'), he was shipped from his hometown of Baltimore, Maryland to the West Coast to fight in the Pacific Theater (likely but not officially because they worried about him facing 'his countrymen' on the battlefield).

And it must be noted that before the strategically idiotic attack on Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt had an awful time trying to motivate Americans to defend our allies in Europe... there were significant parts of the population that were openly pro-Nazi (not just German-Americans) as there were in England even when the bombs started falling there.

The Nazi message has had a certain level of appeal to White Males for a very long time. It's no surprise to me to see the swastika flying next to the Confederate Battle Flag and other racist symbols. His time in the Marines in WWII effectively knocked any appreciation for these symbols out of my father's head... but he still didn't like "n-word" people, and coming back from the Pacific, he really didn't like Japanese (and didn't differentiate them from other 'Orientals'). This is what I grew up with in the '60s.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:16 PM on August 12 [42 favorites]




I have to wonder what it is that's got the Republicans scared enough that Jefferson Beauregard Sessions isn't just giving a limp "what he said" parroting of Trump on this. Internal polling worse than the recent public polls?

A lot of these guys have premised their entire political careers on the "I'm not racist; racists are the guys wearing the white hoods" school of thought. That ugly fiction is the glue that allows modern political racism to function, it's what allows them to pull out lines like "I'm not racist; I just want to stop voter fraud" and "I'm not racist; I just want the police to be able to do their jobs" and "I'm not racist; I just think we should honor our history." If Trump goes all in on his "on many sides" bullshit, it's harder for the rest of the party to hide behind that myth, the collective agreement that promoting racist policies is just politics as long as you do it from the legislature instead of in the streets.

And politically, what do most Republicans have to lose by putting out a statement condemning Nazis? If you say the right appropriately concerned words, the press goes away and leaves you alone, without anybody expecting you to actually do anything. And the only support you risk losing are the kinds of people who think a swastika tattoo is a good idea, and who else are those people even going to vote for anyway? Unless they're actively worried about a primary challenge from someone even farther to their right, Ted Cruz, Cory Gardner, and Chuck Grassley don't have to worry about a revolt from their actively flag-waving Nazi constituents, and all the rest of their constituents can go "well, he's not talking about us obviously," no matter what they believe.

The amazing thing about all of this is how far the window has moved back so quickly. We didn't have reporters shouting "do you condemn white supremacists?" at politicians because the platitudes of condemnation part was, for a short and blissful time in our history, assumed to be a given. Everyone is rightfully upset about the lack of an answer, but that we that we honestly all knew last night, last year, two years ago what Trump's answer would be, that we had to ask the question at all, that's exceedingly painful to me.
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 PM on August 12 [52 favorites]


James Alex Fields Jr.... is charged with one count of 2nd degree murder,


2nd degree?! 2nd degree, my pink butthole! He A) drove in from out of state, B) was caught on film doing a slow cruise, stalking the event earlier in the day, and C) getting a good, long, running start before plowing into the crowd. If that's not fully-premiditated, first degree, cold-blooded murder, I don't know what is. Fuck this bullshit!
posted by sexyrobot at 11:19 PM on August 12 [60 favorites]


John D. Whitney Sj:
There can be no comprise with hate: with racism, with Nazism, or with all the merchants of death cloaked in the veil of white supremacy. The Church--the People of God, along with those called to the ministries of service (bishops, priests, deacons, religious)--must give voice to the Gospel, where all are called to the kingdom of Christ as companions, as sisters and brothers. With Bonhoeffer, with Kolbe, with all the countless Christians who gave their life protecting others and opposing fascism, we must be resolute and unambiguous. We are washed in the blood of martyrs and strengthened by the certainty of resurrection, so let us commit ourselves to oppose the fascists, with our bodies, if needs be, and our voices constantly. Let us invite conversion with love, but never be ambiguous: Nazism, the Klan, the Alt-Right, white supremacy--whatever its name, racism is idolatry. It denies the intrinsic value of every human person, denies the fundamental message of the Incarnation, and creates of race a false god in place of the true God. It is a grave sin, and any compromise with it, diminishes all of us.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:20 PM on August 12 [20 favorites]


Thank you, MeFites, for the donation links. Some meagre support sent.
posted by runcifex at 11:22 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


At some point people need to realize being a Nazi or a nationalist or a white supremacist makes them nothing more than a prisoner of their own hatred. We're supposed to have institutions that save us the emotional labor of teaching this, but in true Orwellian fashion, some people still end up learning to hate the word "liberal" and instead try to glorify this prison of their own making. But no matter how far they manage to climb up the food chain, they're still in prison, and all of their meals will be bitter and unfulfilling. Their only role models are the various traitors and cowards of history.

How else could one of the most "powerful" people in the world still be so miserable all the time?
posted by Arson Lupine at 11:35 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


I don't want to see this shithead Nazi terrorist walk because they can't convince a jury that it was premeditated. If second degree charges are what it takes to be sure that this murdering asshole rots in jail, then good. The prosecutors know how to evaluate these factors, and overreaching with charges would be basically throwing the case.
posted by biogeo at 11:36 PM on August 12 [22 favorites]


In case it hasn't been explicitly noted here:

WaPo: "The FBI field office in Richmond and the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Western District of Virginia said late Saturday that they have opened a civil rights investigation into the deadly car crash."

The Hill: Justice Department opens civil-rights investigation into Charlottesville crash
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 11:55 PM on August 12 [32 favorites]


I'm 100% behind the notions and, even more, the actions that support the phrase "I fight Nazis." Put me in that group, because hell yes, we must, or else. But I am so heartbroken and so angry that we must say this, that this fight is ever renewed, that the vermin never die, but slither out again and again and too many people never learn, never want to learn, and history repeats itself in transparently repackaged hatred, same as it ever was. But. We'll keep vehemently resisting them and their ilk. There's nothing else to do but fight the Nazis. Those who fought before us expect us to continue, humanity needs us to fight, and so we will, so we must. But. But I am furious we have to. How dare the Nazis come back, I think. Do you believe we won't resist you? We will, even if we're incandescent with anger that we must, and we will use this fury to make you shrivel back from where you came, because we won't let up. Goddamnit.
posted by but no cigar at 12:07 AM on August 13 [6 favorites]


James Alex Fields Jr.... is charged with one count of 2nd degree murder,

2nd degree?! 2nd degree, my pink butthole! He A) drove in from out of state, B) was caught on film doing a slow cruise, stalking the event earlier in the day, and C) getting a good, long, running start before plowing into the crowd.


Sometimes states have weird flukes in how they define the different degrees, so I went over to the Code of Virginia to check:

§ 18.2-32. First and second degree murder defined; punishment. (from Code of Virginia, Legislative Information System .gov website)
Murder, other than capital murder, by poison, lying in wait, imprisonment, starving, or by any willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing...is murder of the first degree...
Huh. That...sure sounds like it applies here?? I'd be curious to know what the stated reasons are for the prosecutor's decision to go with the second-degree charge. Some legal or PR strategy? Do they plan to raise it to first degree once more information comes in? Or is it really just "go easy on the white boys"?
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 12:19 AM on August 13




IIRC it's common to throw the immediately provable charge at a guy after arrest to hold him in jail, and if the evidence checks out, increase the charge at a later date.
posted by msalt at 12:22 AM on August 13 [17 favorites]


The car homicide is getting most of the attention but I also want the law to go after the perpetrators of other acts of violence, like the pack of white supremacists who beat up a black man with poles (link to write-up by Yesha Callahan in The Root).
Also: The garage where this happened is next door to the police station (from twitter @zdroberts of photographer who caught the incident on camera).
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 12:36 AM on August 13 [43 favorites]


Yeah, I'm not a lawyer, but the 2nd degree charge seems pretty airtight. In VA it comes with a sentence of 5-40 years, so there's ample punitive opportunity for a judge with the 2nd degree charge.

I'm also in agreement with the above statement that I'd rather see him rot behind bars for a few decades than try to stretch for a more punitive charge that requires a greater burden of premeditation and lose on appeal.

Unless they can show that he specifically had prior intent to murder people prior to arriving at the head of the street (as opposed to deciding to do it in a fit of rage once he got there and saw the people obstructing him). If evidence of that arises - say, that he told someone what he was going to do beforehand - I would expect the charge to change.

I'm also encouraged that there is now a civil rights investigation against him, as well.

There are so many layers to this rotten onion:

1. The fact that there are white supremacists that hold such ugly, hateful views, to begin with,

2. The divisive speech and incitement to violence from political representatives as a means to appeal to those people,

3. Especially the hateful bigotry and violent rhetoric coming from Trump, throughout his campaign and his Presidency,

4. That this enabling of hatred means that militant racists waving Nazi and Confederate flags, and carrying torches, for everloving sake, feel so emboldened that they stage an unlawful nighttime assembly, bare-faced, without any evident shame or fear of consequence,

5. That peaceful people demonstrating for tolerance and diversity are killed and wounded by a life-destroying member of those evil minions,

6. The numerous assaults by these militant racists on counter-protestors (the image of the black kid on the ground in a parking garage being beaten with rods is just chilling),

7. The death of two state troopers in their effort to handle this mess,

8. That even after all of this, while the country is reeling from these horrors, the President of the United States cannot give a full-throated condemnation of the worldview and goals of militant white racism, and in stark contrast to his statements on other attacks, can only bring himself to condemn violence from "all sides, many many sides" of the issue, and

9. The scum percolating to the surface from some right-wing commentators, such as the commentator who, from his perch of white privilege, deigned to lecture a woman of color on the need to "just move past" the leader of our country refusing to condemn white supremacy or to acknowledge the fundamental racism involved in an act of right-wing terrorism.

This whole thing sickens me in so many ways, the more I think of this poison. I started this comment musing on judicial sentencing, but I swear now my stomach is trembling and I feel like I have something caught in my throat and need to vomit.
posted by darkstar at 1:10 AM on August 13 [35 favorites]


Anyway several police officers at the station here think the guy running people down wasn't malicious. They said the driver was scared

Yeah, but then you DON'T drive through that area OR you back the fuck up.
posted by Samizdata at 1:22 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


For one moment, I'm going to try to seriously entertain that premise, because my faith and reason demand I not judge others without knowing what is in their hearts.

I can imagine being in a car, surrounded by people whom I've demonized all of my semi-adult life, hearing them shouting, possibly seeing them in his rear-view mirror where he'd just come from, seeing them on the sides, agitated, angry. Perhaps not seeing the vehicle ahead blocking the road.

And then the adrenaline kicking in and overriding more rational thought, so that the safest way out of the maelstrom of panic was straight ahead, even if it meant plowing through some people to do it.

If that's the case - and part of me wishes it were, even though a much larger part of me holds a dread certainty that it's not - if it's the case, then may God have mercy on him in whatever degree is right and good. Because I'm not sure I could, and just thinking about it makes me want to cry.
posted by darkstar at 1:37 AM on August 13


Sure, what a panicked but reasonable person would do in such a situation is an open question. Thankfully we don't have to figure that out because it isn't what happened. This nazi traveled from Ohio to Virginia to hang out with his nazi pals and intimidate non-nazis, and in a fit of rage when he and his dumbass nazi buddies were driven off the street by counter-protesters hopped in his car and did what right-wing radio and online personalities have urged; purposefully mowed down protestors on the street.
posted by Justinian at 1:49 AM on August 13 [103 favorites]




Just for the record, the white bear in the We Bare Bears cartoon (named Ice), is NOT a white supremacist (bears or people) and has (with the help of one of his animators) proved it.

I can't wait to hear from Jake the Dog and the Crystal Gems. Cartoons WILL save us.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:24 AM on August 13 [6 favorites]




In the UK recently, we had an incident where a male jogger pushed a female pedestrian under the wheels of a bus. People in the comments were trying to find a way to make it Not His Fault and It Was An Honest Mistake Because. I'm reminded of this as I see people now trying to make the car attack in Charlottesville Not His Fault and It Was An Honest Mistake Because.

Some times people are just shits who do very shitty things and we need to accept that. Trying to pull the Not His Fault and It Was An Honest Mistake Because cards for a neo-Nazi who killed a woman with a car is an act I'm finding hard to stomach. I saw it for the jogger and felt sick. I lack words for what I'm feeling now.
posted by kariebookish at 4:26 AM on August 13 [38 favorites]


Did I say that cartoons will save us from racism? This rambling essay-via-twitter by a cartoon scholar shows how Dr. Seuss DIDN'T.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:29 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


The topic of free speech will rage in public discussion for the foreseeable future. To me, it seems that there are intellectual traps set, that such discussion will continually run afoul of unless we manage to enlarge that discussion in novel ways. The trap is the wrong-headed idea that speech exists as some kind of context-less act, as if the act of speaking were separable from where it happens, and to whom. The words you speak with your lover have different meanings than the same words spoken in a public forum. Terms that are unproblematic in one context become weapons in another.

Words are being treated as if they were free-standing things. Words written are different from words spoken. The speaker bears responsibility for words uttered in a manner quite unlike text. And words chanted in public have a very very different meaning again. They define identities. They ground collectives. They stake claims. And they serve to define "the other" for those participating in them.

Writing is not speaking. Speakers own their words. Chanting collectively cannot be ignored and cannot be lumped in to the "right to make dank memes in my bedroom" or the "right to write the gobshite's manifesto".

The way "freedom of speech" is discussed typically ignores all of this.
posted by stonepharisee at 4:45 AM on August 13 [13 favorites]


Sartre, slightly updated, without apology:
Never believe that [alt-right white supremacists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The [alt-right white supremacists] have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:49 AM on August 13 [59 favorites]


Seuss was fighting Nazis back when fighting Nazis wasn't cool. Literally. Nel is dumb, and in the light of c'ville, these little philosophical purity tests are repugnant. Seuss was going up against the Nazis when they were being backed by Henry Ford and Charles Lindberg, and marching, in uniform, in the streets of NYC. He never stopped going after them, even after the war was won. In this particular case, he's going after Axis propaganda trying to stifle American industry and smother our fighting strength. The result of this particular cartoon failure was Truman integrating the armed services, and Ike sending in the Marshals and National Guard to desegregate public schools at our judiciary's request post war.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:51 AM on August 13 [37 favorites]




Local resistance groups are planning a rally today in Bedminster (where Trump is right now). 5:30 at Clarence Dillon Library.
posted by Miko at 5:24 AM on August 13 [10 favorites]


I've been saying this for a while now: it's not Trump you need to be worried about, it's who he enables.
posted by tommasz at 5:27 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


We need to be worried about Trump and who he enables.
posted by dng at 5:36 AM on August 13 [37 favorites]


I'm also in agreement with the above statement that I'd rather see him rot behind bars for a few decades than try to stretch for a more punitive charge that requires a greater burden of premeditation and lose on appeal.

Quick question about the American legal system: you can't charge someone on multiple counts? So, for instance, you can't charge him with second-degree murder and also terrorism, and have him found guilty on the count of second-degree murder but innocent on the count of terrorism?

I ask because my family was the victim of a crime, and the prosecutor explicitly set up the charges so that the first count was a slam dunk conviction and the second count required them to prove a level of premeditation which they hoped would set a precedent, but they didn't hope enough to let the guy walk. I'm curious to know if that's not possible in America.
posted by Merus at 5:54 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


I'm gonna guess Miller.

@gabrielsherman: (NBC)
When I asked senior WH official why Trump didn't condemn Cville Nazis, he said: "What about the leftist mob. Just as violent if not more so"


@jaketapper: retweeted Gabriel Sherman
Except for the fact that one of the racists is in jail for allegedly killing someone
posted by chris24 at 5:58 AM on August 13 [43 favorites]


It feels to me like going for the lesser charge also says the police and prosecutors aren't going to bother trying to get anyone else on anything remotely related.
posted by Etrigan at 5:59 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


>What about the leftist mob

Yeah, here's the thing about those violence-inciting leftists, though: candidate Trump TOLD HIS SUPPORTERS TO ATTACK LEFTIST PROTESTERS.

"Knock the crap out of them, would you? I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees."

Why aren't reporters asking the President if he's gonna pay the Charlottesville driver's legal fees? Extremists attacking protesters was something he campaigned on; it might be the only campaign promise he's made good on so far.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:01 AM on August 13 [115 favorites]


Why aren't reporters asking the President if he's gonna pay the Charlottesville driver's legal fees?

Someone absolutely should be asking this. A picture of this and a quote from Trump should be circulating on the internet if it's not already.
posted by Frowner at 6:03 AM on August 13 [26 favorites]


I saw this on Twitter (@mckinleaf) and thought it was some pretty good terminology for making it clear that people who look like, for want of a better phrase, the relatable protaganist from a bland sitcom are often just as dangerous as the totally unregulated militias:
German has the terms stiefelnazi (boot nazi) & krawattennazi (tie nazi) to distinguish between skinheads and nice, professional, well-spoken [nazis]. The message being that the krawattennazis, who don't foam at the mouth & just want to ask some reasonable questions, are far more dangerous
But of course, the cost of the clobber that the stiefelnazi have on just shows that they're all actually krawattennazi playing a lethal game of dress-up.
posted by ambrosen at 6:07 AM on August 13 [52 favorites]


My friend who was there, a Lutheran priest, says that she and others were saved by antifa, who put their bodies between non-violent counter protestors and mobs of Nazis with sticks and brass knuckles. I've had mixed feelings about antifa in the past, and I know that many people of color on the left find them especially problematic, which I respect. But they saved a bunch of non-violent folks yesterday, including a number of religious leaders.
posted by hydropsyche at 6:09 AM on August 13 [100 favorites]


The Nevada Nazi kid is belatedly concerned about his future employment prospects

Sorry kid, you don't get to walk back marching with a torch in a Nazi rally. That's going to stick with you.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:11 AM on August 13 [93 favorites]


A wonderful Twitter thread: Imagine if these people ever faced any oppression
posted by buttonedup at 6:15 AM on August 13 [12 favorites]


The Nevada Nazi kid is belatedly concerned about his future employment prospects

“As a white nationalist, I care for all people. We all deserve a future for our children and for our culture. White nationalists aren’t all hateful; we just want to preserve what we have.”

---

When you're too dumb to realize you just admitted it's all about maintaining your privilege.
posted by chris24 at 6:16 AM on August 13 [62 favorites]


A win!
Twitter user @YesYoureRacist, who has been trying to ID the white supremacists at the tiki torch rally, has announced that one of the white supremacists has been fired by his employer Top Dog (Berkeley hot dog chain).
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:17 AM on August 13 [69 favorites]


Update, the DSA affiliated (but not limited to DSA members) medical relief funds for protestors has cracked 100k
posted by The Whelk at 6:30 AM on August 13 [18 favorites]


Quick question about the American legal system: you can't charge someone on multiple counts? So, for instance, you can't charge him with second-degree murder and also terrorism, and have him found guilty on the count of second-degree murder but innocent on the count of terrorism?

Merus, defendants do get charged with multiple counts. Fields has been charged with the following, according to the NYT: "second-degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding and failing to stop at the scene of a crash that resulted in a death."

With the US, things get tricky because multiple jurisdictions come into play (state, federal). Defendants can get charged under state or federal law; some parts of law are controlled by the state, some by the federal system; legal definitions and rules vary depending on which jurisdiction you're in. In this case, I understand the current charges to be under state law, but someone previously mentioned that the terrorism charges would be under federal law.

If you're wondering about charging defendants with various degrees of the same crime, prosecutors sometimes do bring charges "in the alternative" and let the trial determine the degree. However, one concept to keep in mind is double jeopardy: if a prosecution fails to reach a conviction, a defendant (generally) cannot be tried for the same charge again.

Another possibility for later on is a civil suit (as opposed to criminal) brought by the victims and families against the perpetrators. Civil trials have very different implications from criminal trials.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:33 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


I first heard about legislation to allow cars to mow down protesters in the street without impunity back when the Dakota pipeline was being protested. I believe at least two other states besides N Dakota have passed similar legislation. I would like to see a list of states that have passed such legislation. This seems like something we can work on: getting these GOP jackasses to repeal these garbage laws. If not now, when? What exactly was the intended outcome?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:34 AM on August 13 [12 favorites]


Senator Lindsey Graham says he'd like to see DoJ-DHS task force assessing size & scope of hate groups, report to Congress

Words are not enough. Graham is Chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Crime and Terrorism with jurisdiction over the FBI, DOJ Criminal Division and DHS anti-terrorism enforcement and policy. He can schedule a fucking hearing on his own, without asking anyone.

Republicans are desperately mouthing what they hope are the right words to make this all go away, so tomorrow they can go back to the same racist policies and encouraging dog whistles that allowed it to happen. Words mean nothing. They either take actions, or they'll continue to be collaborators.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:34 AM on August 13 [78 favorites]


I first heard about legislation to allow cars to mow down protesters in the street without impunity back when the Dakota pipeline was being protested. I believe at least two other states besides N Dakota have passed similar legislation. I would like to see a list of states that have passed such legislation. This seems like something we can work on: getting these GOP jackasses to repeal these garbage laws. If not now, when? What exactly was the intended outcome?

Yeah, the elimination of liability for the exact same tactic used by ISIL is concerning.
posted by mikelieman at 6:36 AM on August 13 [23 favorites]


Also there's a scheduled solidarity rally in union square today at 4 for NYC people's.
posted by The Whelk at 6:37 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


WTF just WTF. I'm an outsider and I know your country is fucking cuckoo but WTF is this. Listen up you don't get to "play" soldier, you want the fantasy get the reality; All of them straight into the forces. Do not pass go. Immediate. overseas. posting.
What the fuck is it that lets the rest of you have these arseholes wandering around. Get them off the streets. It's your country too why not take it back?
(apologies - rant over)
posted by adamvasco at 6:41 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]


The Nevada Nazi kid is belatedly concerned about his future employment prospects

“As a white nationalist, I care for all people".

lolwut
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:42 AM on August 13 [30 favorites]


All of them straight into the forces. Do not pass go. Immediate. overseas. posting.

I'd rather not give them a job, training, and access to weapons, and then point them at someone else, thanks.
posted by Etrigan at 6:44 AM on August 13 [105 favorites]


All of them straight into the forces. Do not pass go. Immediate. overseas. posting.

I'd rather not give them a job, training, and access to weapons, and then point them at someone else, thanks.


Our movie selection last night was Full Metal Jacket (whyyyy) and I share Etrigan's sentiment.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:48 AM on August 13


I'd rather not give them a job, training, and access to weapons, and then point them at someone else, thanks.

Amen. There are already more than enough of them in military and police forces trying to live out their twisted fantasies.
posted by clawsoon at 6:48 AM on August 13 [24 favorites]


I first heard about legislation to allow cars to mow down protesters in the street without impunity back when the Dakota pipeline was being protested. I believe at least two other states besides N Dakota have passed similar legislation. I would like to see a list of states that have passed such legislation.

Tennessee is trying:

'Common-Sense Legislation' Would Shield Drivers Who Run Over Protesters

As is North Carolina:

N.C. House Votes to Protect Drivers Who Hit Protesters

And Rhode Island:

Motorists Who Hit Protesters Blocking Road Could Be Immune
posted by chris24 at 6:49 AM on August 13 [15 favorites]


Meanwhile, in Germany:

American Tourist Gives Nazi Salute in Germany, Is Beaten Up (AP via US News & World Report)
Police say a drunken American man was punched by a passer-by as he gave the stiff-armed Nazi salute multiple times in downtown Dresden. Dresden police said Sunday the 41-year-old, whose name and hometown weren't given for privacy reasons, suffered minor injuries in the 8:15 a.m. Saturday assault.

Police say the American, who is under investigation for violating Germany's laws against the display of Nazi symbols or slogans, had an extremely high blood alcohol level. His assailant fled the scene, and is being sought for causing bodily harm.

It's the second time this month that tourists have gotten themselves into legal trouble for giving the Nazi salute.
see also US tourist beaten for giving Hitler salute in Dresden, Germany (Deutsche Welle)
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:53 AM on August 13 [55 favorites]


A lot of them are already ex-military and ex-LEO. Look up who the "Oath Keepers" are. There has been a targeted push among white nationalists to infiltrate law enforcement and the military. Please don't encourage them.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:53 AM on August 13 [17 favorites]


A few things:

1. I'd rather people not play devil's advocate "well maybe he really was scared" crap about the driver, especially if you haven't seen the videos. I understand not wanting to watch them, as some are quite disturbing, but I have seen most of the ones being circulated and I want it to be 100% clear: The driver came from at least 2 blocks away from the mass of counter-protesters, and crossed an intersection with a pedestrian mall/plaza before approaching the block where the protesters were gathered. There were no people in the area where the driver was coming from, and to which he retreated after his attack. There are also some photos where his brake lights aren't on as he is plowing through the people. I sincerely think that he didn't realize there were other vehicles stuck in the street surrounded by people, and that he thought he would just be able to plow through the crowd.

2. I completely agree that the driver's white male privilege is part of the weaselly language in various headlines about the attack. But those of us who are bicycle and pedestrian advocates have been saying for years that it's essentially house style for news organizations to attribute collisions/crashes/etc to the car, not the driver. (And to use the word "accident" before any fault or lack thereof can even be determined.) This is just an especially horrifying example of the trend.

3. WaPo list of 18 states that have introduced or voted on legislation to curb mass protests in what civil liberties experts are calling “an attack on protest rights throughout the states.” Many of which ease penalties on drivers who hit protestors or increase penalties for protestors in roadways.
posted by misskaz at 6:55 AM on August 13 [65 favorites]


Well, from now on everyone who advocates for those laws is going to be met with "oh, you want another Charlottesville, only here?"

I bet it's going to be a lot harder to pass those laws now, and I bet a lot more people will understand what's wrong with them.
posted by Frowner at 6:59 AM on August 13 [16 favorites]


A lot of them are already ex-military and ex-LEO

On that note, has anyone seen anything on the utter failure of the Charlottesville police? They, what, just stood by while Nazis chased down black people?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:04 AM on August 13 [16 favorites]


Yes, low bar and all standing up to Nazis, but National Review and Weekly Standard are speaking out against Trump.

WS: Hayes: Why Won't Trump Denounce White Supremacists?
We know by now what it looks like when Donald Trump wants to condemn someone. Brit Hume is “a dope” and a “know-nothing.” Mika Brzezinski is “dumb as a rock” and “crazy.” Bill and Hillary Clinton were “the real predators.” Ted Cruz is a “wacko” and “weak.” Chuck Todd—“pathetic” and “very dishonest.” James Comey—“nutjob.” Intel leakers are “low-lifes” and Democrats are “phony hypocrites.” Republicans are “disloyal,” “naive” and “dishonest” while European leaders are “weak.” You get the idea.

Trump is quick to condemn—in specific and harsh terms—anyone he doesn’t like. He’s blunt, he’s direct, and he’s politically incorrect. So it was striking on Saturday when Trump refused to denounce the white supremacists and neo-Nazis whose public rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, led to violence. The racists marched the streets hauling Nazi flags and torches, chanting, “you will not replace us” and “blood and soil.” They taunted counter-protesters and innocent passers-by.

And yet when their aggressive behavior triggered riots and violence in the streets of the quiet college town, the president declined to condemn them. What he offered instead was a cowardly, irresolute, passive statement criticizing the generic intolerance of unnamed groups.
NR: These Guys Are Losers Too: Trump Fails to Condemn Charlottesville Racists
Even if you believe as I do, that Spencer’s form of white nationalism is a marginal movement granted far too much attention, the sight of hundreds of unmasked young men marching through Charlottesville with torches and chanting racist slogans inspires genuine fear in many Americans. Trump was given a chance to speak to that fear today, and to offer the same moral condemnation and deflation he’s given others. Instead he essentially repeated his disgraceful half-disavowal of Duke. He refused to call out these white supremacists by name, and condemn them. He merely condemned “all sides.” An energetic law and order president who had any sense of the divisions in his country would have announced today that he was instructing his Justice Department to look into the people in these groups, and zealously ferret out and prosecute any crimes they turned up.

This is a target-rich environment. Some of these scummy racists in Charlottesville wore chainmail, others went around shouting their devotion to Adolf Hitler. A president with Trump’s intuitive sense of depravity should be able to call them what they are: evil losers. More pathetic: evil cosplayers. Just as Spencer took Trump’s “I disavow” without a direct object to be a kind of wink in his direction, surely he’ll take today’s statement about “all sides” as another form of non-condemnation. With his performance today, Trump confirms the worst that has been said about him. He’s done damage to the peace of his country. What a revolting day in America.
NR: The Alt-Right’s Chickens Come Home to Roost
Incredibly, key elements of the Trump coalition, including Trump himself, gave the alt-right aid and comfort. Steve Bannon, the president’s chief strategist, proclaimed that his publication, Breitbart.com, was the “the platform for the alt-right,” Breitbart long protected, promoted, and published Milo Yiannopolous – the alt-right’s foremost “respectable” defender – and Trump himself retweeted alt-right accounts and launched into an explicitly racial attack against an American judge of Mexican descent, an attack that delighted his most racist supporters.

In other words, if there ever was a time in recent American political history for an American president to make a clear, unequivocal statement against the alt-right, it was today. Instead, we got a vague condemnation of “hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides.” This is unacceptable, especially given that Trump can be quite specific when he’s truly angry. Just ask the Khan family, Judge Curiel, James Comey, or any other person he considers a personal enemy. Even worse, members of the alt-right openly celebrated Trump’s statement, taking it as a not-so-veiled decision to stand against media calls to condemn their movement.
posted by chris24 at 7:14 AM on August 13 [41 favorites]


“As a white nationalist, I care for all people. We all deserve a future for our children and for our culture. White nationalists aren’t all hateful; we just want to preserve what we have.”
> When you're too dumb to realize you just admitted it's all about maintaining your privilege.

And "we all deserve a future for our children and for our culture" is just a rephrased Fourteen Words.
posted by postcommunism at 7:16 AM on August 13 [33 favorites]


I first heard about legislation to allow cars to mow down protesters in the street without impunity back when the Dakota pipeline was being protested. I believe at least two other states besides N Dakota have passed similar legislation. I would like to see a list of states that have passed such legislation. This seems like something we can work on: getting these GOP jackasses to repeal these garbage laws. If not now, when? What exactly was the intended outcome?

You would think it's like they didn't realize that when you run a vehicle into a crowd, people will be gravely injured or killed and that it is a horrific act of violence.


“As a white nationalist, I care for all people...

As a Jew, I know you don't think I'm a person. Go fuck yourself.
posted by louche mustachio at 7:23 AM on August 13 [86 favorites]


A thread with links to states proposing or enacting laws to allow vehicular assault on protesters. So far it includes NC, TX, FL, TN (home of fascist bigoted shitbag Glenn "Run them down" Reynolds), and ND.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:31 AM on August 13 [13 favorites]


Am I a bad person for laughing at this video of the tough guy alt-right troll @BakedAlaska crying like he's mortally wounded after being pepper-sprayed?
posted by octothorpe at 7:38 AM on August 13 [13 favorites]




So white supremacy is the thing that must not be named, but saying "radical Islamic terrorism" is the key to beating it.

TPM: Adviser: Trump Didn’t Want To ‘Dignify’ White Supremacy By Condemning It
posted by chris24 at 7:41 AM on August 13 [17 favorites]


Am I a bad person for laughing at this video of the tough guy alt-right troll @BakedAlaska crying like he's mortally wounded after being pepper-sprayed?

Well, here's Chris Cantwell getting treated being told "We're going to fucking kill them. I promise you that."

These people are dangerous. Stay safe.
posted by Talez at 7:46 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]


Am I a bad person for laughing at this video of the tough guy alt-right troll @BakedAlaska crying like he's mortally wounded after being pepper-sprayed?

I felt a tiny it bad for him while I watched it and laughed yesterday, but that was before his shitty nazi troll-party turned into murder and national tragedy. Fuck that guy: he's a bad person who makes his living harming people. Watch any of his recent livestreams, or heck, watch the 5 minutes of the livestream before he gets sprayed, when he's walking through town on the way to his event and shouting oven jokes at random residents. I'm glad his gross fanbase thinks he's a whimpering manlet now.

(need for milk intensifies)
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:47 AM on August 13 [11 favorites]


Oops.

Not even Robert E. Lee supported Confederate war memorials
So insistent was Lee on extinguishing the fiery passions of the Civil War that he opposed erecting monuments on the war’s battlefields. “I think it wiser moreover not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered,” he wrote.

Rather than raising battlefield memorials, he favored erasing battlefields from the landscape altogether, according to documents at the University of Virginia and the Library of Congress.
posted by chris24 at 7:49 AM on August 13 [102 favorites]


Well, here's Chris Cantwell getting treated being told "We're going to fucking kill them. I promise you that."

Speaking of Chris Cantwell, he seems to be on the run from the law. Here's a video of a very upset, probably methed-out Cantwell (who makes most of his living selling T-shirts depicting leftists thrown out of helicopters) realizing what a boo-boo he made by committing illegal acts of aggressive violence on camera and trying to portray himself (who literally screams KILL THEM during every single episode of his radio show) as a poor meek little victim. He wrote a big old check over his career and is discovering that his play-nazi ass can't cash it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:53 AM on August 13 [27 favorites]


I looked a little deeper into that hideous "All Lives Splatter" meme posted up-thread. In common usage it dates back to February, about when the North Dakota "you can hit protesters with your car" legislation was proposed. But it's older than that. The image is from 2014 and was originally a parody of stick families (text: "nobody cares about your stick family"). Text about protesters was added some time late 2015.

There's also a secondary "All lives splatter" meme which is about murdering people with sniper rifles, not cars. It shows up as a patch you can buy. Sometimes explicitly anti-BLM themed.

I like dark humor, I chuckle at memes in bad taste. But encouraging people to murder protesters with a car is a pretty tough one to laugh at, particularly now.
posted by Nelson at 7:53 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


I like dark humor, I chuckle at memes in bad taste. But encouraging people to murder protesters with a car is a pretty tough one to laugh at, particularly now.

To you it's dark humor, but I assure you they were never joking for even one second. It was an explicit policy position backed by Republican pundits and elected officials, and passed into law in at least four states.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:57 AM on August 13 [48 favorites]


I didn't post it because I think it's funny. I thought I made that extremely clear but I guess not.
posted by louche mustachio at 8:03 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Trump called the the CIA and FBI Nazis, but not actual Nazis.

@realDonaldTrump
Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to "leak" into the public. One last shot at me.Are we living in Nazi Germany?
posted by chris24 at 8:18 AM on August 13 [20 favorites]


> Oops.

Not even Robert E. Lee supported Confederate war memorials

Those nasty, violent cowards care not a bit about historical accuracy or understanding. The guy who drove from Ohio to mow down pedestrians didn't care anything at all about who Robert E. Lee was and how his role was defined with respect to the history of Virginia. They are cowards who cling to their twisted beliefs and will make every pathetic attempt to justify the unjustifiable.
posted by runcifex at 8:19 AM on August 13 [16 favorites]


Meanwhile, Nigel Farage goes "oh deary me how is this possible".
posted by farlukar at 8:22 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


It's 40 years to the day since the Battle of Lewisham when the National Front tried to march through one of the most ethically diverse areas of London and was seen off by a massive counter protest. The NF basically never recovered from that.

All I can add to that is to do what you can; try to keep safe, but always resist.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:24 AM on August 13 [38 favorites]


Because I am a terrible person, that Cantwell video is giving me life. I want Nazis to be scared and crying for a change. So ... what's the easiest way to mirror a Youtube video? I want to be able to push a button anytime and see a holed-up racist freaking out.
posted by salix at 8:27 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]


FYI -the Florida Bill that would have protected a motor vehicle operator's liability under "certain circumstances", Senate Bill 1096, died in the Criminal Justice committee.
posted by wittgenstein at 8:28 AM on August 13 [13 favorites]


"Unite the Right" says it all, doesn't it? Look what they say and do when they get together.

(I have a pet theory that the US's rigid two-party system unfortunately amplifies and polarizes things. When the voter can really only choose A or B... if you can attract ANYONE to your party, it's votes. The GOP needed these nuts to feel included, in order to win the elections)
posted by Artful Codger at 8:30 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Ivanka: "There should be no place in society for racism, white supremacy and neo-nazis."

Why don't you start with the ones next door to your office in the White House? It's not that hard.
posted by JackFlash at 8:30 AM on August 13 [35 favorites]


> Because I am a terrible person, that Cantwell video is giving me life. I want Nazis to be scared and crying for a change. So ... what's the easiest way to mirror a Youtube video?

For yanking a twitter vid go here, you terrible person.
posted by farlukar at 8:37 AM on August 13 [6 favorites]




Ughhh and here's your obligatory reminder to not read the YouTube comments on the Cantwell video.
posted by TwoStride at 8:40 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


the US's rigid two-party system unfortunately amplifies and polarizes things

It's not the two-party system that did this, it was deregulation of media ownership rules, which gave rise to an unofficial nationwide propaganda network of talk radio stations, working in conjunction with Fox News to normalize the kind of rhetoric that used to get the John Birch Society dismissed as kooks by mainstream Republicans. Sadly, this attempt to move the Overton Window, when combined with a need to pursue ratings, created a really fucking toxic feedback loop. And now we've got a Republican president who is structurally unable to condemn white supremacy, and who lacks the moral backbone to do it if he wasn't. Blaming this all on the two-party system is just another variety of the "both sides do it" bullshit that's used to further the right wing agenda.

In my estimation, this country crossed a boundary yesterday. It does not matter what anybody believed about the Republican party before yesterday...all of those assumptions and definitions have been rendered obsolete. The Republican Party is now explicitly the party of white supremacy, the American Nazi party.
posted by Ipsifendus at 8:40 AM on August 13 [66 favorites]


> So ... what's the easiest way to mirror a Youtube video? I want to be able to push a button anytime and see a holed-up racist freaking out.
By mirroring do you mean copying the video and re-upload elsewhere? If so, you can try youtube-dl if you don't mind installing a Python script. It works with YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter, and many other media websites.
posted by runcifex at 8:43 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]


White House doubles down on Trump’s Charlottesville comments, ignores calls to directly confront white supremacy

That's because He's One Of Them (TPM).

As JMM says, "Let's stop pretending." I don't think anyone here needs any convincing, but Jesus Christ apparently editors at the WaPo and NYT do.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:43 AM on August 13 [11 favorites]


My first comment in this post was basically call them Nazis, but this is a good thread.

@noumenal_woman
As a historian, it's amazing to me that folks continue to say "call them what they are: Nazis!" when we're talking about a demonstration in
- Virginia (the capital of the Confederacy) that was sparked in large part by discourse/action around Confederate monuments.
- Yes, there are neo-Nazis in the number here. But we don't have to make the colossal reach across Atlantic for examples of white nationalism.
- Let's be specific to our own national and regional context.
- The United States of America, the South, Virginia, and Charlottesville have rich histories of white nationalism and white supremacy
- that get conveniently erased when liberals/progressives reduce Richard Spencer's ilk to 'Nazis'.
- It seems like a distancing move. Nah. These ideologies are close by, whether you'd like to admit it or not. This is our national heritage.
posted by chris24 at 8:44 AM on August 13 [66 favorites]


I always liked Confederazis, personally. But I think that's because I'm scared too many people will support them if we just call them straight up Confederates.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:46 AM on August 13 [12 favorites]


Ipsifendus - Thank you for the comment. When pondering how trump got elected, I personally had downplayed the racism angle, and leaned more towards the idea that many comfortably-off conservatives decided that since he was Not Hilary, and that no matter what happened, they'd do ok, they could get behind him. After yesterday, i'm ready to concede that racism has played a bigger part.

I will note that in a country with more political options, the nutbars are shunted to the side more easily.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:48 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Don't leave Mike Pence's Indiana out of the list of states who want to let people mow down motorists in the street.
posted by headspace at 8:49 AM on August 13 [14 favorites]


Sadly, a huge percentage of the American population wouldn't cringe if you suggested they had some measure of sympathy for the racist traitors who attempted to destroy the Republic, so long as you left all that "racist traitor" stuff unspoken and described them instead as "the Confederacy". No argument there.

Weirdly, though, a large number the same people probably would flinch if you said they were in sympathy with the Nazis. And the shitheads in this latest demonstration didn't balk at quoting Hitler, or waving swastikas around, so fuck it: they're Nazis. If that's "distancing", it's at least not a form of distancing that lets so-called "mainstream" Republicans off the hook.
posted by Ipsifendus at 8:51 AM on August 13 [17 favorites]


While it's true that not all of the many, many racists I've had to deal with identify as Nazis or Klan members or whatever, I'm okay with putting them all in the same basket. It's a big basket.
posted by salix at 8:56 AM on August 13 [9 favorites]


As a historian, it's amazing to me that folks continue to say "call them what they are: Nazis!" when we're talking about a demonstration in
- Virginia (the capital of the Confederacy) that was sparked in large part by discourse/action around Confederate monuments.


The "Unite the Right" protesters weren't chanting "save our monuments". We know what they were chanting. So the monument thing is no more than the string they picked to crystallize around.

Nazis, neo-nazis, fascists works for me. In a soup, everything touches everything.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:58 AM on August 13 [32 favorites]


White House doubles down on Trump’s Charlottesville comments, ignores calls to directly confront white supremacy

The shitty statement that didn't do anything mentioned in this link? Well...

@JessicaHuseman
The WH just put out a statement saying "of course" Trump condemns white supremacists and "nephew-Nazi" groups (?). It is unsigned.
posted by chris24 at 9:01 AM on August 13 [11 favorites]


This appears to be a real screenshot of CNN's transcription. This is too stupid to be real.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:04 AM on August 13 [9 favorites]


It seems like a distancing move. Nah. These ideologies are close by, whether you'd like to admit it or not. This is our national heritage.

Heritage is a myth. In the literal sense of the word. There's hundreds of millions of Americans, each with their own story, their own ancestry, and their own relation to history. Our history as a nation is a big mess of people doing awful terrible things and people doing magnificent things. All too often the exact same people.

When you call a particular story your heritage and not just your history, you are not just making a statement about how things were, but how things are and should be. I, for one, would claim the "liberty and justice for all" part as my heritage and make this lot of nazis and traitors history.
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:06 AM on August 13 [13 favorites]


I'm sure it's coincidence that Trump is unwilling to be specific on Jews and Nazis.

@maggieNYT
This is not dissimilar to the Holocaust Day statement including "all sufferers" not mentioning Jews
posted by chris24 at 9:11 AM on August 13 [47 favorites]


So the White House is now sending official statements from devices with autocorrect. This is fine.
posted by jferg at 9:12 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]


While it's true that not all of the many, many racists I've had to deal with identify as Nazis or Klan members or whatever, I'm okay with putting them all in the same basket. It's a big basket.

Hell, they themselves called it "Unite the Right." Every shithead and organization there was openly declaring allegiance to and mutual support with all the others.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:14 AM on August 13 [17 favorites]


Wow. the Twitter Oracle pronounces, and the temple priests get to parse and explain it.

If the Orange Twit doesn't jump in front of a mic and categorically denounce the filth that descended on Charlotteville, like NOW... this will not wash off.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:14 AM on August 13


Here's a video of a very upset, probably methed-out Cantwell

I watched that video while making breakfast this morning.

A few things I noticed. He mentions that he pushed counter protesters out of the group because he feared for the safety of those people:
"Several times I had to push [counterprotesters] out of there because they were bumping into marchers and because I genuinely feared for the safety of those people. When they were jumping into our formation, and there's hundreds of white nationalists marching toward a monument ... them getting into our formation puts them at risk, and so I pushed people out of the way. And I spoke to them in an impolite fashion.
Saying that he was pushing counterprotesters away for their own good seems like a tacit admission that the white nationalists were there to be violent.

He also insists that the white nationalists did everything in their power to keep things from turning violent. He fails to state exactly what this means. He fails to say, for example, that they took such basic steps as asking white nationalists to remain peaceful and to report threats of violence.

He also talks about how regular listeners to his show will know that they "joke" about killing leftists. He uses the same defense that Rush Limbaugh's defenders repeatedly use: The show is entertainment, and he is an entertainer.
posted by compartment at 9:15 AM on August 13 [11 favorites]


Until it comes out of Trump's mouth while on camera, it is not believable.
posted by yesster at 9:15 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


I spoke to them in an impolite fashion

I wasn't there, but some of my friends were and they report much more aggression from the supremacists than "speaking in an impolite fashion" and pushing people away "for their own good." Calling a bunch of combat-ready Nazis impolite is like calling the Civil War "that recent unpleasantness" -- such an understatement that you almost think it must be a joke.

(To be clear: it's not a joke.)
posted by basalganglia at 9:21 AM on August 13 [12 favorites]


Tom Bossert (DHS) is on Tapper right now insisting on "both sides" and "all groups" and refusing to even say "neo-nazi" or "white supremacist" or to condemn or assign any blame to racism/white nationalism. This is chilling.

edit: he finally was forced to reluctantly say that he denounces nazis. He literally rolls his eyes first. It's disgusting.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:22 AM on August 13 [25 favorites]


If the Orange Twit doesn't jump in front of a mic and categorically denounce the filth that descended on Charlotteville, like NOW... this will not wash off.

The problem is, the President is already known to be a racist asshole. It's why a large chunk of the population voted for him. For the Deplorables, it's not a matter of whether the shit covering Trump won't wash off...it's the shit that attracts them in the first place.

Decent human beings rejected Trump a long time ago.
posted by darkstar at 9:24 AM on August 13 [14 favorites]


Oh sure, but it'd be fun to see him squirm, and then see the alt-right denounce his betrayal.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:28 AM on August 13


[If you're dropping identical comments into two threads at once, please stop and figure out which thread specifically you want to put it in instead. It creates confusion and needless duplication when two related threads start having identical content appearing.]
posted by cortex at 9:30 AM on August 13 [27 favorites]


I'm just going to assume anyone I see in a polo and khaki shorts is a Nazi

sorry Old Navy
posted by The Whelk at 2:52 PM on August 12


looks at SO:
- khaki shorts ... check
- polo shirt ... check
- yarmulke -- phew! Close one.

The day the Nazis start wearing kippot will be a very strange day.
posted by jb at 9:32 AM on August 13 [28 favorites]


Please let's restrict it to white polos + khakis, with an allowance that some didn't get the memo.

I love khakis, and polos are my summer "dressup" staple. No white ones though. I have a fetching turquoise polo that I particularly like.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:36 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]


I went to counterprotest neo-Nazis in Charlottesville. I witnessed carnage. By Austin Gonzalez, chair of the Richmond DSA.
posted by biogeo at 9:41 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]


Tom Bossert (DHS) is on Tapper right now insisting on "both sides" and "all groups" and refusing to even say "neo-nazi" or "white supremacist" or to condemn or assign any blame to racism/white nationalism. This is chilling.

edit: he finally was forced to reluctantly say that he denounces nazis. He literally rolls his eyes first. It's disgusting.


@TVietor08: (Pod Save America)
This photo is a good summary of @TomBossert45's disastrous interview with @jaketapper today

PHOTO
posted by chris24 at 9:49 AM on August 13 [9 favorites]


I'd suggest two compounds for widespread use (not mine, seen them around, but not enough): MAGANazi to connect the evil to its source and Vanilla ISIS to make fun of their tactics and goals.
posted by Free word order! at 9:54 AM on August 13 [19 favorites]


Isn't Bossert the same dipshit yesterday that couldn't even get the city right? All the best people!
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:59 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


This morning I posted this photo of a protest sign from the Women's March in January 2017 which said, "I'm Here to Knit Hats & Punch Nazis & I'm All Out of Yarn" to my knitting blog's Facebook page. Most people seem to be enjoying it in the spirit in which I intended it, but there are always those few:

Commenter: Unfollowing. I don't promote violence , no matter who is doing it. Terrible post.

Me: This is a protest sign from the Women's March, an astonishingly large and almost entirely peaceful worldwide demonstration -- very few arrests were made that day. The "punch Nazis" poster is, in effect, figurative and joking and not at all a promotion of actual violence.

Same commenter: In very poor taste. Yesterday in Charlotte, three people died because racists and liberals showed up to fight one another. Attitudes like this from both sides led to this tragedy. Two of the deaths,were peace officers who there to save idiots of either ilk from themselves.

Me: I have to disagree with your representation of yesterday's events, which seems to cast both liberals and racists as equally responsible for the chaos and violence in Charlottesville. Yesterday, racists showed up to march armed with shields, clubs and pepper spray -- their organizers explicitly encouraged them to arm themselves on their websites. The anti-racists were there to demonstrate against their hateful ideology and demonstrated no such violent intent. A neo-Nazi drove his car into a crowded street at 40 miles an hour, killing one anti-racism protester and injuring 19 more. There was no such act committed by the anti-racists. The two sides are not equal. And if I, as a liberal, post a protest sign that is, again, joking and figurative, it's not to promote violence but to give other anti-racists a moment of stress-relieving amusement and solidarity. And I think most of my readers will understand that.


I added a few helpful hashtags to the original post to clarify my intent for anyone who might otherwise accuse me of promoting violence (i.e., #inthiscontextpunchisafigurativeterm #pleasedonotactuallypunchanyone).

It speaks volumes about the "both sides-ism" of those who refuse to condemn the anti-racists and claim that anti-racists are equally at fault that I'm being called to account for a mild joke when, you know, the Nazi side murdered people yesterday. They're hiding behind false equivalencies and hypercriticism in order to keep from acknowledging their own complicity and/or responsibility for helping to stem the tide of bigotry and injustice.
posted by orange swan at 10:03 AM on August 13 [71 favorites]


It's creepy how Bossert has that same face as Spencer and Flynn... the Nazis went brunette but it's still an unmistakable look.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:04 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]


On that note, has anyone seen anything on the utter failure of the Charlottesville police? They, what, just stood by while Nazis chased down black people?

If past experience is any guide, they feared for their safety.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:09 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]


#All Terrorists Matter
posted by theora55 at 10:11 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Since America's white supremacy tradition intersected pre-WWII fascism and nazism and there's been a pretty strong overlap between neonazism and white nationalism ever since, I think it's reasonably accurate to refer to these folk as "nazis". But, speaking personally, I'm sort of on the other side of this where I'd prefer to call these people who are wearing nazi paraphenalia "alt-right" so that the two become synonymous in public discourse. Right now, as pointed out, "alt-right" wants to be semi-respectable. But when what television anchors are calling "alt-right" people are clearly "white nationalists and nazis", then that's an identification they're going to be stuck with. Seems to me that calling the obvious nazis "nazis" just plays into the alt-right's attempt to create distance between the two. But I can totally see the reasonableness of the opposite argument.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:12 AM on August 13 [6 favorites]


On that note, has anyone seen anything on the utter failure of the Charlottesville police? They, what, just stood by while Nazis chased down black people?

If past experience is any guide, they feared for their safety.


Had that been the case, they would have been shooting people in the back.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:14 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


It's creepy how Bossert has that same face as Spencer and Flynn... the Nazis went brunette but it's still an unmistakable look.

Who are you? George Combe?
posted by Talez at 10:17 AM on August 13


Umm, Mark Zell who is Worldwide VP:Republicans Overseas and Co-Chair Republicans Overseas Israel, is a tad crazy.

Haaratz: Republican Leader in Israel Hails Robert E. Lee as 'Great Man,' Blames 'Leftist Thugs' for Charlottesville Violence
“Trying to blame the President for these events is ridiculous," said Marc Zell, head of Republicans Abroad in Israel. "The president supports the United States and the freedom of all Americans. Even before the events escalated, he called for calm and restraint on all sides – in contradiction to [Trump’s predecessor, Barack] Obama, who fanned racial tensions.”

Going on the offensive, Zell said that he holds “leftist thugs,” local authorities and organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union responsible for Saturday's events. “I am, of course, no supporter of Nazis or white supremacists. But this very tragic event could have been avoided," he said. "It was clear to all that the leftist thugs would come out to provoke and escalate the events. These thugs are the ugly face of progressivism around the country. They are looking to shut down free speech.”

Zell continued, “Mayor Michael Signer and [Virginia] Governor Terry McAuliffe, who are both Democrats, are the ones who control the police. They could’ve prevented all this bloodshed.” Noting that both Signer and McAuliffe have been critical of Trump, Zell reiterated, “Those local authorities have much to take responsibility for and to apologize for.”

Zell also said that the car-ramming attack, in which 20-year-old James Alex Fields plowed his car into a group of counterprotesters, killing one, “must be investigated. I am confident that Attorney General Jeff Sessions, and the newly appointed director of the FBI, Christopher Wray, will conduct a proper investigation. And I will not be surprised if they find that the incident was deliberately provoked by the left.”

Noting that the demonstration was a response to the city's plan to remove a statue of Confederate general Robert E. Lee, Zell said that this is “a left-wing idea that says that history can be rewritten. It can’t. Lee was part of the Civil War, he was a great man and he is revered by many. Both the North and the South had terrible sides to them, but you can’t remove a statue because it offends some people. That’s left-wing violence.”

Although he condemned the “left” for attempting to shut down free speech, Zell also blamed the ACLU, which “should know, as we all do, that the right to free speech is not a limitless freedom. They should not be supporting these kinds of demonstrations.”
He also tweeted this:

@GOPIsrael
Not to sound too conspiratorial, but consider the possibility that Antifa and Soros contemplated the clash in advance.
posted by chris24 at 10:18 AM on August 13 [21 favorites]


On that note, has anyone seen anything on the utter failure of the Charlottesville police? They, what, just stood by while Nazis chased down black people?

Hey, it's not like they were doing something really dangerous like, say, being black themselves.
posted by non canadian guy at 10:20 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Not to sound too conspiratorial, but consider the possibility that Antifa and Soros contemplated the clash in advance.

This is the Infowars/The_Donald/James Woods narrative: (((globalists))) conspired, maybe with local authorities, to either stage the events or "let them happen." Expect to hear it more and more often.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:23 AM on August 13 [17 favorites]


When you call a particular story your heritage and not just your history, you

This an important observation. The 2 second tour, I'm a Red Wings fan./ don't wear the logo, you Nazi fuck.
The nickel tour was meeting my aunt's foster mother, her father served in the confederacy. My father explained no "Yankees" have been in her house for 135 years. (Would have been circa, 1977) So i was on my best behaviour but would not touch the regalia collection, though listened and observed. As part Of my memory it is part of my history but a glimpse into ones story which is narrative for the most part.
The conclusion or even a summation of such a memory is hard to document at best. But it felt like a reconcilation and acceptence and I did not need that then.
posted by clavdivs at 10:25 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


> Since America's white supremacy tradition intersected pre-WWII fascism and nazism and there's been a pretty strong overlap between neonazism and white nationalism ever since

And indeed the Nazis themselves admired and drew on Confederate ideology:

How the Swastika Became a Confederate Flag
Hitler drew a similar, more sinister comparison in “Mein Kampf.” He describes the United States as “the one state” that had made headway toward what he regarded as a healthy and utterly necessary racist regime. Historians have long sought to minimize the importance of that passage. But in recent years, archival research in Germany has shown that the Nazis were keenly focused on Jim Crow segregation laws, on statutes that criminalized interracial marriage and on other policies that created second-class citizenship in the United States.

The Yale legal scholar James Q. Whitman fleshes this out to eerie effect in his new book “Hitler’s American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law.” He illustrates how German propagandists sought to normalize the Nazi agenda domestically by putting forth the United States as a model. They assured the German people that Americans had “racist politics and policies,” just as Germany did, including “special laws directed against the Negroes, which limit their voting rights, freedom of movement, and career possibilities.” Embracing the necessity of lynching, one propagandist wrote: “What is lynch justice, if not the natural resistance of the Volk to an alien race that is attempting to gain the upper hand?”
Also contains the phrase "easy-listening white supremacists", although really I reckon at this point Nazi will do for the lot of them. Congregate with nazis: get to be called one.
posted by Buntix at 10:26 AM on August 13 [51 favorites]


Why no info yet, on the cause of the helicopter crash? What, exactly, links it to the violence on the ground? What else could the chopper have been doing, other than observation? I bet there's something behind it that's embarrassing to higher-ups and/or the chopper crew, and the media silence is because nobody's figured a way yet to spin it so the counter-demonstrators get the blame.


I always liked Confederazis, personally.

No, sounds dumb, it'll never catch on.

posted by Rash at 10:27 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]


This is the Infowars/The_Donald/James Woods narrative: (((globalists))) conspired, maybe with local authorities, to either stage the events or "let them happen." Expect to hear it more and more often.

Yeah, just amazing to hear anti-semitic dogwhistles defending Nazis from someone who's Jewish.
posted by chris24 at 10:28 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


Yeah, just amazing to hear anti-semitic dogwhistles defending Nazis from someone who's Jewish.

Yep, just like Stephen Miller denouncing people as "globalists" and "cosmopolitans."
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:32 AM on August 13 [11 favorites]


Someone is always willing to sign up for the Judenrat.
posted by tavella at 10:36 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


McMaster calls it terrorism.

I felt all celebratory posting that, and then I was like, well...still kind of a low bar.

Still.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:42 AM on August 13 [27 favorites]


It's only a matter of time before one of these ghouls opens fire at a protest. We're heading into Baader-Meinhof territory, with a wide range of richly deserving fascist targets whose silence or dogwhistling is all but going to guarantee a US future populated by domestic guerrilla groups.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:26 PM on August 12 [8 favorites +] [!]


indeed.

here's a photo... militia guys fully armed with rifles in public

caption:

Militia members position themselves between people attending the Unite the Right rally and counter-protestors at Emancipation Park before the scheduled start of the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville on Saturday August 12, 2017.

i can't imagine what these guys were doing there, why they were allowed, and what could have gone even more horribly wrong than already did.
posted by sio42 at 10:43 AM on August 13 [11 favorites]


Why no info yet, on the cause of the helicopter crash?

Don't read anything into that. This sort of crash can be very difficult and time-consuming to investigate, for lots of reasons. I've known comparable cases to take many months for even a preliminary report.
posted by Devonian at 10:43 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]






‘I’m not the angry racist they see’: Alt-Righter became viral face of hate in Virginia — and now regrets it (Raw Story)

Paper his home town with fliers, get the biggest billboards, wrap the cars, and rent every bus bench. Rinse, repeat for every person there.

As for the word "Nazi," I think everyone should strive to un-normalize the word and stop using phrases like "grammar nazi."
posted by Room 641-A at 11:03 AM on August 13 [42 favorites]


4chan nazi remains applicable.
posted by Artw at 11:11 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


I'm reminded how all those horrible diseases we've eradicated through vaccination have fallen out of living memory. I haven't seen anyone with smallpox scars since the 80s. It's history textbook stuff. Now there's so few people with first hand experience, (oh so stupid) people feel skeptical about vaccines.

This nazi rally wouldn't have happened 70 years ago, in 1947. All the veterans of that war didn't just punch nazis. They fought the real thing with bombs and bullets and won. These chickenshits wouldn't dare throw a nazi salute in public with all those returned soldiers around with fresh memories of the battlefield.

Now those memories have faded into history, which doesn't seem to be taught anymore. Do these assholes even know that the nazis lost? The nazis are losers. The confederates are losers. Did they skip the last chapter in the textbook?

Do we need a new plague to remind people that vaccines are really cool? Do we need another holocaust to remind people that when you see a nazi, you declare war on them.
posted by adept256 at 11:11 AM on August 13 [58 favorites]


here's a photo... militia guys fully armed with rifles in public

From a close look at those and other pictures of these members of a III Percenter group calling themselves the Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia Laurel Highlands Ghost Company, together with the fact that the guy on the right in the first picture I linked is a particularly out-and-proud fascist, and the fact that these fuckwits are hypothetically not all very good at facebook privacy settings, it might hypothetically be pretty easy to find out stuff about them that would be of interest to @YesYoureRacist, mentioned above, like their names and the contact info of their employers. If one is not on Twitter, what would hypothetically be the best way to communicate this information to @YesYoureRacist?
posted by busted_crayons at 11:12 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


- Yes, there are neo-Nazis in the number here. But we don't have to make the colossal reach across Atlantic for examples of white nationalism.

We don't have to reach across the Atlantic for Nazis any more than we have to reach across the sea for any other political movement or idea whose ultimate origins are outside the US.

Nazism -- not neo-nazism, not white supremacism more generally, not anything except literal, direct, no-shit Nazism of the "we like Hitler" variety -- was quite popular in the US right up until we were at war with them and continuing to support our literal enemy in public became impolitic. Charles Lindbergh wasn't a neo-anything or just a white supremacist. He was a Nazi. And of course neither he nor the millions of other American Nazis were likely to have actually changed their views on 11 December 1941, just stopped expressing them in public.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:18 AM on August 13 [30 favorites]


A point made rather well by this tweet [and attached pics]

@BFriedmanDC "Would *LOVE* to know the name of Mr. 82nd Airborne Division here rendering Hitler's Nazi salute. The 82nd jumped into Normandy on D-Day."

and the reply: @danothebeach "Battle of the Bulge, Dec. '44: "I'm the 82nd Airborne and this is as far as the bastards are going." 82nd AB fighting against Nazis."

is how little this is about history, tradition, honour, or even pride.

It's all the acting out of fragile little-big-men who are so bereft of any other ability or talent that the only way they can justify their existence is to fabricate existential threats that only they can defend against. With their little wooden LARP 'murica shields, Tiki torches, pseudo-Roman references, and tacky golf club chic dress-up.
posted by Buntix at 11:21 AM on August 13 [46 favorites]


‘I’m not the angry racist they see’: Alt-Righter became viral face of hate in Virginia — and now regrets it

he deeply regrets being identified at a nazi rally and outed to his university
posted by indubitable at 11:21 AM on August 13 [34 favorites]


Nazism -- not neo-nazism, not white supremacism more generally, not anything except literal, direct, no-shit Nazism of the "we like Hitler" variety -- was quite popular in the US right up until we were at war with them and continuing to support our literal enemy in public became impolitic. Charles Lindbergh wasn't a neo-anything or just a white supremacist. He was a Nazi. And of course neither he nor the millions of other American Nazis were likely to have actually changed their views on 11 December 1941, just stopped expressing them in public.

Yep, America First was the motto of Lindbergh-era American Nazis before Trump started using it.
posted by chris24 at 11:22 AM on August 13 [36 favorites]


If one is not on Twitter, what would hypothetically be the best way to communicate

They don't appear to have any other public contact information. Probably easiest to sign up for a throwaway twitter account and DM it to them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:22 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


I am on Twitter and would be happy to pass on info; my MeMail is open.
posted by epj at 11:28 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


Do these assholes even know that the nazis lost? The nazis are losers. The confederates are losers.

I'd say this is the worst argument possible but it's not an argument. Trump won; we lost. We're losers. what does that mean about us? you ask "do they even know" -- why do you think they call it the Lost Cause? it's a huge part of the propaganda and what they try to make a gallant romantic myth out of. no shit they lost. yes, they do know and they fucking love it. A sense of intolerable injury is the white supremacist's best friend. "Losers" is a little-kid insult and just because these racists are dumb sociopaths doesn't make them vulnerable to every silly thing we wish they might be vulnerable to. as if, because fascists are the kinds of people who call people "losers," it must pain them greatly if we call them that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:37 AM on August 13 [14 favorites]


Heh. The guy who regrets beings photographed said he didn't think that picture would be shared that much. I have bad news for you, little buddy. That photo has a Getty Images watermark.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:39 AM on August 13 [89 favorites]


He'll insult anyone and everyone except Putin and Nazis.

On that note, I wonder what Putin and the Russian government have to say about the refusal of Trump to condemn neo-Nazis.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:39 AM on August 13


Be like the dude in the 82nd airborne division linked in buntix's comment above.

This is the line, from here we yield no more.
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:41 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]




> On that note, I wonder what Putin and the Russian government have to say about the refusal of Trump to condemn neo-Nazis.

I'm guessing either "Yay!", or "Please note that you are infringing our copyright by having your superpower usurped by means of manipulating the far-right movement".
posted by Buntix at 11:46 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Senator Bob Casey (D-PA), in a Facebook post:
Today our nation mourns for Heather Heyer, who was murdered in yesterday’s domestic terror attack in Charlottesville, and her family. I’m also praying for the law enforcement officers who lost their lives as well, Pilot Lt. H. Jay Cullen and Trooper-Pilot Berke M.M. Bates. The terrorist who committed yesterday’s violent act must be held fully accountable. All public officials have an obligation to clearly state that hateful, racist, white nationalist groups were responsible for yesterday’s terrorism. Our nation should never tolerate their racism or their violent acts.
As a Pennsylvanian, I'm happy to see Sen. Casey calling this what it was.
posted by cjelli at 11:50 AM on August 13 [52 favorites]


So... One end of the political spectrum on the Sunday morning talkshow circuit openly includes KKK-brand white supremacy, and the President is trotting out the "both sides" fallacy as justification. People will fight to move the spectrum back but it's going to get worse before it gets better. It won't move back as long as he is President. Putting this devilry back in the box is probably going to cost many more lives.

This is precisely the danger that I thought Sarah Palin posed 8+ years ago with her "real Americans," proud to be stupid shtick. Sooner or later the stupid, hateful people gain asendency because they are stubbornly committed and have little else. Happened a little more quickly and thoroughly than I thought it would, but Christ here we are.
posted by milarepa at 11:55 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]


FYI: The above mentioned @YesYoureRacist has a Patreon page.
posted by bouvin at 11:58 AM on August 13 [6 favorites]


I'm using my knitting blog's platform to... speak out against Nazis.

I had to type out those words, to make them into a coherent, visible sentence, in order to process them.
posted by orange swan at 12:08 PM on August 13 [56 favorites]


the Neo-Nazi alleged concern about erasure of white guy history is pretty grotesque considering how many native civilizations white guys have wiped out.
posted by angrycat at 12:09 PM on August 13 [17 favorites]


Ted Lieu
Ted Lieu @tedlieu

There are many sides to @realDonaldTrump, but why does he appear beholden to David Duke and Vladimir Putin? #Charlottesville

Hey @realDonaldTrump, Americans have a simple question for you. Whose side are you on?

Having reflected, I have now concluded the #Charlottesville speech by @realDonaldTrump shows he is a coward. Hope he finds some courage soon
posted by Room 641-A at 12:10 PM on August 13 [26 favorites]


‘I’m not the angry racist they see’: Alt-Righter became viral face of hate in Virginia — and now regrets it

he deeply regrets being identified at a nazi rally and outed to his university


yup, his life just took a self-inflicted u-turn, or maybe it just piled off into chasm. The only possible upside is that he's only twenty. I believed a few dumb things when I was twenty; nothing as dumb as white nationalism etc, but cringeworthy nevertheless, and, key point, I was able to see it as much within two or three years. So yeah, this guy's still young enough to realize what a colossal fool he's been and actually change. Here's hoping.
posted by philip-random at 12:12 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


If you need a pick-me-up, you can watch Jason Kessler, who organized the march, being chased out of his own press conference by protestors (alternate view) (the crowd as he showed up)
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on August 13 [36 favorites]




So yeah, this guy's still young enough to realize what a colossal fool he's been and actually change. Here's hoping.

Orrrr I'm guessing he'll fall farther down the cesspool of white fragility and toxic masculinity and believe that it's all the non-Aryans' fault that his life is now so harrrrrd. Some of his classmates on Twitter were worried that he'll now be the kind of kid to contemplate a school shooting, and, horrifically, that's no longer a far-fetched idea in these times.
posted by TwoStride at 12:16 PM on August 13 [30 favorites]


From The Root article linked by FelliniBlank:

You don’t aim for someone’s head while wielding a metal pole if you don’t intend on inflicting grievous bodily harm or worse. And the fact that there is not, in fact, a branch of Metal-Poles-’R-Us in downtown Charlottesville that was giving out free samples yesterday, that means these pond scum came with the metal poles to inflict harm. Intent is pretty damn clear.


We have to stop these white supremacist thugs before they think they can take this violence to more non-white, non-Christian, non-straight people, and to the white people who won't play ball with them like Heather Heyer. It's going to be hard when half the government actually agrees with them, but what choice do we have but to press on for our right to exist?
posted by droplet at 12:21 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]


Thank God the police intervened and ushered Kessler to safety! I could only imagine what would have happened if they stood by and did nothing! (/sarcasm)
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 12:29 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


> I'm using my knitting blog's platform to... speak out against Nazis.

You're following in a great tradition there.

See also gardening for victory. There's a long history of sane productive people turning their tools against fascists.

Also art and music (like in that movie House's mate was in).

---

Another good point made in that film (and so many other books, films, documentaries and actual history that happened in real reality) is that when the fascists take power, they don't ease up. They empower every other little angry hateful bigot and put them in positions of power.
posted by Buntix at 12:36 PM on August 13 [11 favorites]


They're hiding behind false equivalencies and hypercriticism in order to keep from acknowledging their own complicity and/or responsibility for helping to stem the tide of bigotry and injustice.


I just had a brain wave about politics-as-aesthetics and the demonstrated human preference for symmetry.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:43 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]


"Both sides!" and the Overton window shift is a bit of a motherfucker as combos go.
posted by Artw at 12:45 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


If you need a pick-me-up, you can watch Jason Kessler, who organized the march, being chased out of his own press conference by protestors

If you feel bad for Jason's freedom of speech for one fleeting second, he posted this video literally an hour before the press conference, titled "Government Officials Set a Trap for Unite the Right." Based on the video, this is what he was going to say: "this is all the fault of the Charlottesville local government, local police, and antifascists. Oh, and the car thing was bad of course, whatever, who knows why he did it though. The police led us into a trap."

Dude wasn't about to apologize, denounce, or even really defend himself. If he had been allowed to speak at the press conference, he would be inciting violence against himself, against the people of Charlottesville and even against the local police. The fact that police still intervened quickly to rescue him by wading into an angry crowd despite him being about to denounce them speaks well of them.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:49 PM on August 13 [11 favorites]


Aren't men who are killed while protesting referred to as heroes?

I find it galling to see Heather Heyer repeatedly identified as "victim."
posted by mrmurbles at 1:05 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


What, what? She is the victim. Anybody who died there would be called a victim. That just seems like searching for a reason to be angry.
posted by Justinian at 1:06 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]


(content warning: link to white supremacist's YT) Jason Kessler, professional scumbag and white supremacist, blames everyone but himself.
posted by Yowser at 1:08 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Lots of great info in those YT comments about how the car Nazi was a secret Jew because his mother's name was Bloom
posted by theodolite at 1:11 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


If you feel bad for Jason's freedom of speech for one fleeting second, he posted this video yt literally an hour before the press conference,

This is exactly why the police should have been on high alert yesterday; they knew from the unlawful torch March that these people didn't go there to protest peacfully. Now the people and cameras are there, watching, and the DOJ is sniffing around.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:15 PM on August 13 [10 favorites]


What, what? She is the victim. Anybody who died there would be called a victim. That just seems like searching for a reason to be angry.

No, calling her a victim takes away her agency. She was there protesting, not getting an ice cream. She was a white person, standing up for people who are not white, and she died for it. I believe this would be more likely to be recognized if she were a dude based on my general lived experience of women being seen as victims and men being seen as heroes, though these threads move too fast for me too run off and find things to cite right this minute.
posted by mrmurbles at 1:16 PM on August 13 [29 favorites]


Why not both? She was a victim of a senseless act and a hero for being there opposing these people. But calling her a hero in the press would imply something was wrong about being on the other side and WE CAN'T HAVE THAT.
posted by delfin at 1:16 PM on August 13 [15 favorites]


Am I a bad person for laughing at this video yt of the tough guy alt-right troll @BakedAlaska crying like he's mortally wounded after being pepper-sprayed?

No, but I feel like a lot of people are missing what he was doing there. He was hamming it up for the camera on purpose. Some people are going to say "what a baby" (although use a different word). Maybe even some in the alt-right are going to think that way. But MORE people are going to fall for what he was doing there - they're ATTACKING US! We're in a WAR! We need to FIGHT!

I mean, I've been pepper sprayed (on purpose, for training). It sucks. But watch that video again - he was exaggerating for effect, screaming MEDIC! and acting like he was going to die. Knowing he was on camera. FOR the camera. Did he even get sprayed for fuck's sake, or just make the whole thing up?
posted by ctmf at 1:18 PM on August 13 [11 favorites]


in this environment where some feel like calling car Nazi a 'secret Jew,' I support the efforts of @yesyoureracist but I fear for her/his welfare. I hope she/he has like 15 layers of security between the twitter account and IRL
posted by angrycat at 1:19 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


Did he even get sprayed for fuck's sake, or just make the whole thing up?

I think he did get sprayed, that he was definitely hamming it up, but that he didn't get the intended sympathy from his supporters. Many very negative comments from alt-right chuds that should be his buddies.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:20 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


I was against the militarization of the response in Ferguson, but I think we're at the point where we need that. The state needs to maintain the monopoly on violence. Because the next predictable thing is both sides bringing militias and guns and using them for their protection. And that goes nowhere good. Everyone needs to know the first side to start violence automatically takes on the full force of the state.

And yeah, I don't especially like where that leads either, but not deterring domestic armed conflict is worse.
posted by ctmf at 1:25 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Sorry for the double post, Rust Moranis.

(Content warning: link to scumbag's Periscope)
To make up for it, here is professional scumbag, white nationalist, and (hopefully) soon-to-be next SPLC lawsuit loser for stochastic terrorism, Jason Kessler blaming everyone but himself AFTER the press conference
posted by Yowser at 1:29 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


I think reading up on the Weimar Republic is a good way to get some historical perspective on our current situation and then figuring out "what we do about this" with a keen eye on what happened in Germany from 1929-1933.
posted by Annika Cicada at 1:31 PM on August 13 [23 favorites]


[...] good way to get some historical perspective on our current situation [...]

I also highly recommend William Shirer's Berlin Diary.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:37 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


I was in camp "we're not like the Weimar Republic" until yesterday, because before then we didn't have self proclaimed Nazis waving swastikas killing left of center people at rallies. Now we do.

Before now it's been more likely that a closeted nazi would be a cop using tear gas on people at BLM march and murdering black children in broad daylight. Which is horrific and disturbing and traces the thread across the election of Trump to yesterday. I understand the events of yesterday speak to the heart at the weave and weft of the fabric of our society, I am not claiming this event is somehow aberrant or new, it isn't. It's a predictable escalation.

This escalation is also evident by the response from the Conservative party, with centrist and right of center republicans denouncing this as a terrorist act while the president and far right silently remains complicit. Our country has been slowly going to war with itself for 5 decades and in my opinion yesterday will be seen as a tell of where shit got really "no fucking really" real.

~on preview~ I also recommend Berlin Stories as well.
posted by Annika Cicada at 1:43 PM on August 13 [17 favorites]


So there's another rally planned tonight near the confederate statue. I find it hard to believe the city will allow this to happen.

Also did I read there will be a Nazi rally in Boston next weekend?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:58 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Some nonfiction books to read in the Trump Era:
• The Origins of Totalitarianism and Eichmann in Jerusalem, Hannah Arendt
• The Unwinding: An Inner History of the New America by George Packer
• American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America by Chris Hedges
• On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century by Timothy Snyder
• The Diary of Anne Frank by Anne Frank
• Freedom Is a Constant Struggle: Ferguson, Palestine, and the Foundations of a Movement by Angela Davis
• Nixonland: The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America by Rick Perlstein
• All the President's Men by Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward
• White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America by Nancy Isenberg
• Citizen: An American Lyric by Claudia Rankine
• This Fight Is Our Fight: The Battle to Save America's Middle Class by Elizabeth Warren
• Parable of the Talents by Octavia Butler
posted by Fizz at 1:58 PM on August 13 [74 favorites]


Keep in mind that gvf is Nazi signaling, more subtle that a swastika, but absolutely a gang sign of Nazi. Either that tag is fake, or the driver custom ordered it.

Can you elaborate on this? Because his mother's license plate is also GVF-11something.
posted by theodolite at 1:58 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I am thinking Weimar, too. Throw in Trump and the Republican Party sending jitters through various economic markets and some nukes for kicks.

When I first read Snowcrash, one of the things that stuck out to me was the atomization of the US into city states and burbclaves, including Aryan/Nazi. I thought that was a bit fantastical, now it is looking prescient.
posted by jadepearl at 2:00 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


Surely there is an enterprising person in Charlottesville who has access to a sledgehammer or a jackhammer or something. What is this statue made out of, adamantium?
posted by Justinian at 2:02 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


To answer myself, it's made of bronze. So I guess you'd need more than a sledgehammer. Fair enough.
posted by Justinian at 2:03 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Anyone can rent a backhoe. They just need a credit card. Just sayin.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:04 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Though it's a very dense read, an excellent book right now is The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich . by William Shirer. The first few chapters are probably very relevant.
posted by waitangi at 2:06 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


Thing is, smashing up the statue is not going to make them go away. They are using the statue and Confederate symbolism as an excuse for their particular brand of virulent racism, just as their grandfathers and great-grandfathers used Christian imagery in the 1920-1950s version of the KKK. It's not like if you take away the symbol, they will just nicely go back into their grottoes.
posted by basalganglia at 2:07 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]


I'll add Masha Gessen's The Man Without a Face: The Unlikely Rise of Vladimir Putin to the reading list. Obviously about a different totalitarian state, but the parallels between Putin's rise and Trump's rise are FASCINATING (and terrifying of course), and I felt like it gave me greater insight into and context for what's happening right now. And of course it's interesting to think about which countries were on which side during WWII...
posted by Ragini at 2:08 PM on August 13 [10 favorites]


Thing is, smashing up the statue is not going to make them go away.

But it sure would be satisfying.
posted by Justinian at 2:09 PM on August 13 [23 favorites]


It isn't that it would be hard, or even the civil penalties. It's that you would be bringing a potentially-probably-violent shitstorm on yourself once you got doxxed for it. Which is how the terrorists like it.

Plus, once we're resorting to self-help, we're stepping pretty far down into the Glasl death-spiral.
posted by ctmf at 2:09 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


Tearing down statues is symbolic. It makes a statement about what we will and will not support in the public sphere.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:10 PM on August 13 [36 favorites]


Thing is, smashing up the statue is not going to make them go away.

Making Nazis go away is not the primary goal of taking down the statues. The primary goal is to not make Black Southerners walk by them every day.
posted by Ragini at 2:11 PM on August 13 [81 favorites]


ctmf: I take your point but given that blood was quite literally running in the streets yesterday I would say that ship has probably sailed.
posted by Justinian at 2:12 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


(For example, witness the reverberation throughout our society of Bree Newsome taking a flag off a pole.)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:12 PM on August 13 [17 favorites]


Plus, once we're resorting to self-help, we're stepping pretty far down into the Glasl death-spiral.

I would take the fact that there's nazis cropping up everywhere to indicate that we're pretty far along already.
posted by Artw at 2:12 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Moreover, the statue of Robert E. Lee now resides in a place that was recently renamed to "Emancipation Park". Having that statue in a park named that offends _me_, and I'm fishbelly white.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:14 PM on August 13 [11 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy, yes, there is a rally in Boston next Saturday.
posted by ruetheday at 2:16 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


A backhoe? How about a flashmob with a bunch of chains. There's enough of us, we're stronger together.
posted by adept256 at 2:17 PM on August 13 [18 favorites]


I agree that the statue, and all other Confederate statues/imagery in this country, needs to come down. But I am worried that smashing it to bits (however satisfying that would be) will only fuel the deranged bastards who have already murdered a woman in my hometown, beat a group of students on the grounds of my University, and assaulted a man with metal poles in the garage where I used to park.
posted by basalganglia at 2:17 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]


If hundreds of people pulled it down with chains, now THAT would send a message no single person with a backhoe could achieve. If simultaneously, several statues around the country had the same thing happen...
posted by ctmf at 2:19 PM on August 13 [30 favorites]


True enough.. It's also probably a lot harder to arrest the 400 people that pulled the statue over than the one person with a backhoe.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:21 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


Does anyone know what happened to the Seattle event that was going to happen today?
posted by Yowser at 2:26 PM on August 13



Lots of great info in those YT comments about how the car Nazi was a secret Jew because his mother's name was Bloom


At least they've read Ulysses
posted by thelonius at 2:27 PM on August 13


Just got back from the counterprotest in Chicago. A bunch of people showed up. We marched up and down Michigan Ave once, then over to Wabash and up to end at the Trump Tower. Lots of good speakers, and tons of energy in the crowd. We basically never stopped chanting for the whole march. Lots of white folks, women, kids. No nazis in sight.
posted by Wulfhere at 2:28 PM on August 13 [13 favorites]


Does anyone know what happened to the Seattle event that was going to happen today?

It's happening. There's a group of white supremacist Trump supporters in a gated off area and a LOT of protesters in the streets that were marching toward that area but are being blocked from getting there by large numbers of police.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:28 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


are being blocked from getting there by large numbers of police.

I get that this is two different cities and one is partly in response to the other. Also, preventing violence is the right thing to do, period. But it is not a good look overall to protect Nazis from getting the shit beat out of them, while not doing anything when Nazis were doing the beating yesterday.

I prefer Seattle's approach.
posted by ctmf at 2:36 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


The Seattle cops just fired tear gas into the counter-protesters.
posted by Justinian at 2:39 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]


Why no info yet, on the cause of the helicopter crash?

Don't read anything into that. This sort of crash can be very difficult and time-consuming to investigate, for lots of reasons. I've known comparable cases to take many months for even a preliminary report.


Somebody's reading something into it. The chopper crew's being lauded as heroes but as far as I can tell there's no witness to any heroism on their part. Therefore, I don't appreciate their being equated in the media with the martyr Heather Heyer and I find the blackout on their radio chatter suspicious.
posted by Rash at 2:40 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


Boston counterprotest info here. Black Lives Matter is heavily involved.

Also, call the mayor and tell him your thoughts on giving these very dangerous people a platform in what's supposed to be no place for hate.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 2:43 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


"I prefer Seattle's approach.
posted by ctmf at 2:36 PM on August 13 [+] [!]"

"The Seattle cops just fired tear gas into the counter-protesters.
posted by Justinian at 2:39 PM on August 13 [+] [!]"

2017
posted by ctmf at 2:43 PM on August 13 [48 favorites]


NeverTrumper and senior Republican strategist Rick Wilson:

@TheRickWilson
1/ Folks have sent me a couple of emails saying that exposing alt reichers and having them lose their jobs just isn't fair.
2/ and how would I feel if that happened to me?
3/ it already has. These assholes have gone after my kids, my business, my clients and me personally for two years.
4/ in my case, for the sin of opposing Trumpism. When TrumpBart when after my clients, many friends on the right said nothing
5/ so I hope your pardon me when the knife is in the other hand. The alt-right believes they can have a race war without consequence
6/ they have every right to their free speech, and the rest of society has every right to treat them like the lepers they are.
posted by chris24 at 2:48 PM on August 13 [132 favorites]


The cops are out in full riot gear in Seattle. This is less than optimal.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 2:49 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


I don't really know anything about twitter so I don't know how to link to a central news aggregator, but googling "seattle protest" brings you to several pages, including this fellow:

https://twitter.com/itsmikebivins

Who is getting footage.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 2:52 PM on August 13


Crosscut has a liveblog of protests in Seattle.

Freelance journalist Mike Bivins is live-tweeting from the march.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:52 PM on August 13


Rick Wilson kind of chummed the waters with his comments about "childless single men who masturbate to anime". He was trying to troll the trolls, or so it seemed.


Link

posted by theorique at 2:53 PM on August 13




It is the Virginia state legislature that refuses to let these statues be torn down (despite locals voting that the statues be removed). Here is a link to the VA General Assembly, including VA house and senate member lists:

Contact state legislators about these concerns and maybe they will act to remove the roadblocks so that Charlottesville (and my city, Alexandria) can tear down these statues -- and soon. That is my hope.

Virginia is a reasonably blue state nowadays, but the state legislature in particular is still very red -- and very pernicious.

FYI, because you might find it interesting: about ten minutes ago, I received a text from the VA attorney general's (Mark Herring's) office asking what issues are important to me. I said that right now, it was obviously the white supremacist terrorism in Charlottesville. The AG's office texted back with this: "Mark spoke out Saturday night against the hatred seen in Charlottesville: 'The violence, chaos, and apparent loss of life in Charlottesville is not the fault of "many sides." The racists, neo-Nazis, neo-Confederates and white supremacists who invaded a Virginia city are responsible.' See him speaking out here
posted by rue72 at 2:53 PM on August 13 [16 favorites]


I went to bed planning to go to the march in Seattle, woke up realizing I'm probably not up for that right now physically... and now I'm both feeling bad for not sucking it up and going anyway and also thinking I'd probably have just been in the way. It's not a good feeling.

It's also not a good feeling to see the cops acting like this here.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:54 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]


From Frowner's comment in the politics megathread about [non-punching] tactics to fight these white supremacists:
So I feel like alternate tactics need to be developed that will destroy the image-making power of the nazis.

My immediate thought is that you can fuck up a protest with a small number of people if you have a brass band and enough people to defend it if they link arms and stay tight (we have left wing brass here, which brought it to mind). So, for instance, you mess up image-making if people are marching around....followed by tuba. [emphasis mine]
I was watching the clips of Kessler being chased out--and there is someone playing something loud and brassy in the crowd! Also some cymbal- and drum-like sounds. And of course dozens of people shouting at Kessler.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 2:56 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]


Seattle PD has major problems with racism and brutality, and a particularly awful police union that blocks any improvement on either front, so it probably should not be a surprise. Still shockingly vicious though.
posted by Artw at 2:57 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


Scaryblackdeath, I'm in Seattle and also sitting this one out because of an urgent plumbing situation. I feel you.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 2:59 PM on August 13




Cops are attacking the crowds

…and just as I was starting to type out a long rebuttal to the "at this point it's going to be better to let the state have a monopoly on violence" comment above. :/
posted by stagewhisper at 3:01 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


Not arguing Seattle PD's problems at all, 'cause they're for real. My only surprise is the PD and the city know they have a major trust gap with the community. They know how bad relations are here. And yet they chose to go with this strategy, anyway, in spite of...well, everything.

I'm only surprised they didn't decide on some completely different approach than this. Like maybe telling the fascists they couldn't have their rally today because (insert transparently bullshit reason I'd be fine with) or something.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:03 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


…and just as I was starting to type out a long rebuttal to the "at this point it's going to be better to let the state have a monopoly on violence" comment above. :/

Jinx, depressingly.
posted by busted_crayons at 3:03 PM on August 13


Seattle PD hates the city and everyone in it.
posted by Artw at 3:04 PM on August 13 [9 favorites]


One thing that makes me happy: the counter-protest march in Seattle seems considerably bigger than I first thought it would be judging by stuff I'd seen online before it got moving. I'm really glad people turned out for this.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:06 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


…and just as I was starting to type out a long rebuttal to the "at this point it's going to be better to let the state have a monopoly on violence" comment above. :/

I'd be interested in reading that, because I still think that's true. But there's a huge difference between responding to violence and initiating it. Seattle's crossing to the wrong side, apparently.
posted by ctmf at 3:08 PM on August 13


University of Nevada Reno white supremacist Peter Cvjetanovic's classmates uh weren't surprised:

when the main dude in this photo is in most of your history classes and always spouts fascist and racist comments
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:12 PM on August 13 [12 favorites]




I'd be interested in reading that, because I still think that's true. But there's a huge difference between responding to violence and initiating it. Seattle's crossing to the wrong side, apparently.

I'm sure they'll have some excuse.

I'm sure I don't give a fuck what it is.
posted by Artw at 3:15 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]




I'm seeing some folks on Twitter saying the fascists left their Seattle rally even though the cops were keeping the groups separated. Hoping that's true.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:17 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


DSA's Statement on Nazi Violence in Charlottesville:
In the face of growing racist, anti-Semitic, white supremacist violence, comrades from across the left came together in an incredible display of left unity. They came from many different organizations but spoke with one voice, chanting “Black Lives Matter” and other pro-solidarity slogans. Undaunted, they held the line and showed the fascists that they shall not pass. The day ended with the streets of Charlottesville free of Nazi scum.

We call on the left to build a strong united front against this emboldened right wing. We need to be clear and recognize that white supremacist terrorism will not simply go away if it's ignored. This violent and dangerous movement should never be allowed to have a platform. It should always be fought against by the strength of our united front.

It is important to acknowledge the differing responses of the police to white supremacist marches and terrorism and their reactions to Black Lives Matter protests and marches. Black Lives Matter protests are always met with the worst police brutality and suppression while white supremacist marches are allowed to freely attack counter-protesters on many occasions.

In this way, we plainly see whose side the police are on. From the days of the creation of the modern day police in the 1800s, they were used as a violent force for the physical suppression of a resistant working class, of Black slaves, and indigenous people. Today, their role of social control and oppression remains largely the same.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:19 PM on August 13 [17 favorites]




Sounds like folks are heading home from Seattle now.
posted by Artw at 3:26 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Cville update: i just found out that there is another all-out protest by the fascists that was scheduled to start at 6pm at the rotunda tonight. A couple friends of mine who are on grounds told me that there are already tons of press and police personel.
posted by tedious at 3:28 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]




I can just imagine the panic all across the country this afternoon as men who haven't worn anything but polo shirts and kakhis for years try to figure out what to wear tomorrow to get that "I'm not a Nazi" look.

I predict a veritable fashion explosion in IT departments and middle management across the nation in the next few days.
posted by MrVisible at 3:29 PM on August 13 [32 favorites]


If you want to know what this looks like from the outside a Syrian friend of a friend who is currently living in France saw the the video from Charlottesville and sent her screaming like to the effect of "why are they allowed to fly the swastika why can people just form militias whit assault rifles what the fuck is wrong with your country this looks like a siege!"
posted by The Whelk at 3:32 PM on August 13 [56 favorites]


Cville update: i just found out that there is another all-out protest by the fascists that was scheduled to start at 6pm at the rotunda tonight. A couple friends of mine who are on grounds told me that there are already tons of press and police personel.

There was set to be a vigil at the rotunda, but it was cancelled (well, will be held only on Facebook Live) due to "a credible threat from white supremacists."
posted by zachlipton at 3:33 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


I predict a veritable fashion explosion in IT departments and middle management across the nation in the next few days.

I got this. I got a WHOLE LOT of vintage tie-dyes from the days I used to tape the Grateful Dead, and a foot long pony-tail.
posted by mikelieman at 3:33 PM on August 13 [12 favorites]




"Do not think that one has to be sad in order to be militant, even though the thing one is fighting is abominable." - Michel Foucault
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:38 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


One of the things that piss me off about this is that when you immigrate to the US, USCIS makes you swear and double swear that you aren't nazi sympathizer, so I was under the impression that nazism wasn't tolerated here?
posted by Tarumba at 3:45 PM on August 13 [20 favorites]


It wasn't until a white supremacist openly ran for President on a white supremacy policy campaign and was elected by white supremacists.
posted by tel3path at 3:48 PM on August 13 [14 favorites]


Yesterday, Richard Painter was talking about gorka and he made this aside: "Sebastian Gorka -- I don't even know how he got in this country --
posted by Room 641-A at 3:50 PM on August 13 [20 favorites]


"Sebastian Gorka -- I don't even know how he got in this country --"
On a work visa at Mar-a-Lago? Or from Trump's models agency...
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:56 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


What We Know About James Alex Fields, Driver Charged in Charlottesville Killing [The New York Times]
In an interview with The Associated Press, Ms. Bloom said she knew her son was going to a rally, but that she tried to “stay out of his political views.” She said that she thought the rally “had something to do with Trump,” adding, “Trump’s not a supremacist.”
And this is why it's so important for elected officials and government offices to be firm and outspoken in their denouncement of this type of hatred and ideology.

How anyone living in America is able to think that Trump is not associated with the white nationalist and Nazi movement is astounding to me. The election was filled with news and information regarding their support for Trump.

But I guess this is what happens when you such a large portion of Trump's base get their news from Fox, Breitbart, etc. They aren't informed about his connections and his ties to these people and their support for his presidency.
posted by Fizz at 3:58 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


No, Seattle cops aren't perfect. They're people and doing their job. I really wish that they didn't need to use pepper spray and maybe flash-bangs to do it. But the cops would rather take the blame for being over-cautious than have more violence and the results of violence on either side. Even when one side is horrible and wrong.

The problem here is that the "Patriot Freedom Rally" speakers were denouncing the white supremicists and sounding almost rational, but the "Anti-Hate" were antagonizing the police whilst being deprived of confrontation with those nice peaceful Christians who were just speaking their minds according to God and The American Way.*

*No, I don't see them that way, but there are a lot of people who will.
posted by monopas at 4:03 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


wow, i love art (@pettyblackgirl on twitter)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:03 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]




Rose Berry:
Y'all have to stop using Trump as the reason why White nationalists are marching, assaulting, and murdering Black people. Seriously y'all, stop. Trump can't be your scapegoat. America been racists. Is still racist. America is who voted for Trump. Black people and POC been telling y'all that but you kept hiding behind "but slavery is over..." and "but civil rights..." and "but our president is Black..." and "but allyship..."

Y'all can watch a literal genocide happening to Black people in your daily newsfeed and go on living your sheltered lives...and it takes White nationalists with tiki torches for you to pay attention?! Where have you been?!

They didn't manifest out of thin air. They are the police officers, prosecutors and judges that kill, police, criminalize and institutionalize Black/Brown ppl.

They are the aggressive White frat boys who you let say nigga during rap songs.

They are the agitated White woman who screams with fury because the barista made her coffee wrong.

They are your next door neighbors and cousins and parents at Thanksgiving dinner.

They are your classmates and friends on your newsfeed that you unfollow so you don't have to deal with their ignorance.

They are the trolls on MY timeline that you so conveniently ignore while you post statuses about how DOWN you are for Black/Brown ppl.

This shit ain't nothing new. Wake the fuck up. Then do something about it.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:12 PM on August 13 [65 favorites]


You know what "HH" stands for?

It stands for "Heather Heyer".
posted by nnethercote at 4:14 PM on August 13 [11 favorites]




One of the things that piss me off about this is that when you immigrate to the US, USCIS makes you swear and double swear that you aren't nazi sympathizer, so I was under the impression that nazism wasn't tolerated here?

Yes when I applied for my green card I had to fill out that form in septupulet
posted by mbo at 4:15 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]


Yes when I applied for my green card I had to fill out that form in septupulet

I wondered if voting for the Greens once in Australia was disqualifying.
posted by Talez at 4:17 PM on August 13


I don't know, were you a communist, a war criminal, coming to the US for immoral purposes, overthrown a govt, had ever been charged with a crime (not convicted) .... All those were on there
posted by mbo at 4:21 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Trump Tower is having a rough go (it's literally been shut down due to protests)
posted by Yowser at 4:22 PM on August 13 [19 favorites]


Voting for the Greens mIght count as trying to overthrow a friendly govt
posted by mbo at 4:23 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


I can just imagine the panic all across the country this afternoon as men who haven't worn anything but polo shirts and kakhis for years try to figure out what to wear tomorrow to get that "I'm not a Nazi" look.

Yeah.

It turns out that they were consciously "dressing up" for the rally. The look they were going for was Chad Nationalism. With the hope - somehow unsurprising - to "make girls want to be our groupies".
posted by clawsoon at 4:29 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


One of the things that piss me off about this is that when you immigrate to the US, USCIS makes you swear and double swear that you aren't nazi sympathizer, so I was under the impression that nazism wasn't tolerated here?
When I filled out my citizenship application ~12 years ago, they only wanted to know if I had been a Nazi between 1939 and 1945. That was the only Nazi question; there were almost a dozen Communism-related ones.
posted by migurski at 4:32 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]


Twitter user @YesYoureRacist, who has been trying to ID the white supremacists at the tiki torch rally, has announced that one of the white supremacists has been fired by his employer Top Dog (Berkeley hot dog chain).

Is it naughty of me to find it really, really funny that the job that this particular douchenozzle had was working at a hot dog restaurant?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:34 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


...in Berkeley!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:36 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]




Revisiting October 2016 How Trump Took Hate Groups Mainstream
The full story of his connection with far-right extremists.
posted by adamvasco at 4:37 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


So my cousin and his wife were in Charlottesville with a clergy contingent, and his wife just wrote up their experience yesterday, mostly inside a church handing out snacks because they couldn't make it to the nonviolent confrontation training the night before. This atheist is so proud to know them.
posted by deludingmyself at 4:39 PM on August 13 [15 favorites]


No, Seattle cops aren't perfect. They're people and doing their job. I really wish that they didn't need to use pepper spray and maybe flash-bangs to do it.

Seattle police have a habit of standing by and watching Nazi protestors beat up counter-protestors, just like police yesterday in Charlottesville and in Portland a month ago. When the protestors are leftist or do anything besides calmly follow police instructions on where to corral themselves the police respond with force.

Artw is right the police in Seattle hate the people in Seattle. By and large they don't live here, they commute from neighbouring cities. They are mostly white transplants from other parts of the country. The SPD has a 20 year history of para-military response to protestors and they know what they are doing. I don't know where you are coming from trying to defend SPD. They are probably one of the most advanced police forces in the country in terms of handling large scale protests and they know exactly what they are doing, separating the larger crowd into manageable groups, isolating the "scary" groups that may cause property damage and forcing them away from the actual event they are protesting into roaming street conflict with groups of police. SPD in full riot gear is completely common sight at Westlake Center.

Although FWIW most of the conversations I've had today about the protest in Seattle are concerned about how this will effect traffic so at least you, like, have an opinion.
posted by kittensofthenight at 4:40 PM on August 13 [29 favorites]


Seattle's gonna Seattle.
posted by Artw at 4:42 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]


Trump Tower is having a rough go (it's literally been shut down due to protests)

Hopefully for the duration.
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


Twitter user @YesYoureRacist, who has been trying to ID the white supremacists at the tiki torch rally, has announced that one of the white supremacists has been fired by his employer Top Dog (Berkeley hot dog chain).

Is it naughty of me to find it really, really funny that the job that this particular douchenozzle had was working at a hot dog restaurant?


My joy over this has been tempered by finding out that the Top Dog website has a section that links to the Ludwig von Mises Institute, which has been categorized by the SPLC as a Neo-Confederate organization (according to the Wikipedia entry).
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 4:43 PM on August 13 [10 favorites]


Is it naughty of me to find it really, really funny that the job that this particular douchenozzle had was working at a hot dog restaurant?

...in Berkeley!


Side note: Berkeley is a land of contrasts. Top Dog, which is a local institution, is run by an uber-libertarian who covers the inside of the restaurants with signs like DISCARD STATISM and TAXATION IS CONSCRIPTION, and has a a "proper gander page" on the website that republishes the Mises Institute blog.
posted by theodolite at 4:45 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


My joy over this has been tempered by finding out that the Top Dog website has a section that links to the Ludwig von Mises Institute, which has been categorized by the SPLC as a Neo-Confederate organization (according to the Wikipedia entry).

.....Somehow it makes it even funnier that they may sympathize with his cause and they STILL fired him.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:45 PM on August 13 [15 favorites]


Also from that Vice article:
"We need to keep women on the sidelines. Not speaking, not leading, and with no official membership in anything."

Their mothers must be so proud. I mean that sarcastically, and with the disgusted realization that some of their mothers are.
posted by erisfree at 4:51 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


Uh guys, I don't think this year's Thanksgiving is gonna be any easier/more fun than last year's. :(
posted by yoga at 4:51 PM on August 13 [25 favorites]


Jinx! I used to eat at the no-longer-extent Hearst Ave location all the time as a kid - mainly I remember the huge Road to Success poster I stared at endlessly while I munched franks.

FWIW, the Top Dog guy is more Ron Paul than Richard Spencer: I also remember a poster with [hammer and sickle] = [swastika] on it. I expect he wasn't too put out by firing a Nazi.
posted by theodolite at 4:52 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


> Keep in mind that gvf is Nazi signaling, more subtle that a swastika, but absolutely a gang sign of Nazi. Either that tag is fake, or the driver custom ordered it.

>> Can you elaborate on this? Because his mother's license plate is also GVF-11something.


The generic license plate format for Ohio is ABC 1234. According to the state, "System assigned plates are pre-manufactured with consecutive numbers only and are never personalized."

According to Wikipedia
, the current license plate design has been issued to motorists since 2013, and through July of this year had been issued in the range of FWA 1000 to HFD 9999.

I would guess that the driver and his mother both got plates at the same time; the Challenger may perhaps be owned by and registered to his mother. Just a weird coincidence that GVF has the meaning it does.
posted by compartment at 4:56 PM on August 13 [9 favorites]


Uh guys, I don't think this year's Thanksgiving is gonna be any easier/more fun than last year's. :(

I hope people are not diplomatic in the slightest.
posted by Artw at 4:57 PM on August 13 [37 favorites]


I mean fuck these assholes for a long list of reasons, but include on that list making this be the context in which I explain to my kid about Nazis. Fuck you for that too, you assholes.
posted by nickmark at 4:58 PM on August 13 [22 favorites]


GVF

Sorry, I missed it but am sure it has been covered but what does this mean? I am not being successful on Google.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:01 PM on August 13


A Terrible Llama, try Ctrl+F on this thread. Some people were commenting on it upthread.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 5:06 PM on August 13


Richmond (about an hour away from Charlottesville) is also trying to figure out what to do with our statues.

It looks like they won't be removed, and input from citizens has been really weak so far. I wonder if everyone is just spooked. The Mayor has recommended adding context to the statues. Not sure what that would look like.
posted by Tarumba at 5:09 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


@gadyepstein
Not many presidents could make threatening nuclear war the second worst thing he did in a week.
posted by chris24 at 5:09 PM on August 13 [100 favorites]


Top Dog is well known for the owner's right-libertarian outlook - well, you can't really miss the screeds and clippings all over the walls. So there are always some fellow cranks working there and I'm not exactly shocked that this guy would be among them. But I'm also not shocked that a libertarian business owner would not be down with an employee making him look bad in front of his clientele by going full Nazi in public. At-will this, asshole.
posted by atoxyl at 5:10 PM on August 13 [10 favorites]


Action item to fight white supremacy and those who give it safe haven: if you live in and/or make hotel bookings in: AZ (Lake Havasu), CA, CO, FL, HI, IL, Tokyo, MA, NJ (New Brunswick), NY, TN, TX (San Antonio), VT, VA, WA, WV or WY, especially if you have any connection to decision-making on event bookings for larger groups through work or other affiliations, please take a quick moment and look through this list of properties owned by Benchmark Hospitality. I've been to one for a university program function. We have considered using the same location (Cheyenne Mountain Resort) again for student retreats, but I just found out that they're hosting a conference for the anti-immigrant hate group Vdare next spring. (Links go to news article and SPLC profile, not Vdare itself, but I've confirmed the conference on the group's website.) I won't do business with those who invite hate groups to our state, and damned if I'll sit back and let anyone in the University of Colorado system do the same without saying something.

So I emailed CMR and Benchmark to tell them to cancel Vdare's reservation, and reminded them that hate groups are not a protected class under Colorado public accommodations law, so this decision is very much in their court. I asked them to finalize the cancelation by the end of the month and publicly reject Vdare and their values, or I'd be working with campus organizers to cancel any existing reservations and spread the word to not make any new ones.

Emails and phone numbers for the Benchmark public relations team can be found here on their website.
posted by deludingmyself at 5:12 PM on August 13 [47 favorites]


NYT: McAuliffe Counters Critics of Police Response to Charlottesville Violence
Asked about the brawling and why police did not do more to control it, Brian Moran, Virginia’s secretary of public safety, said in an interview on Sunday that “it was a volatile situation and it’s unfortunate people resorted to violence.’’ But, he said, “From our plan, to ensure the safety of our citizens and property, it went extremely well.’’

Governor McAuliffe also defended the police response, saying, “It’s easy to criticize, but I can tell you this, 80 percent of the people here had semiautomatic weapons.

“You saw the militia walking down the street, you would have thought they were an army,” he added. “I was just talking to the State Police upstairs; they had better equipment than our State Police had,” he said, referring to the militia members. “And yet not a shot was fired, zero property damage.”
This is the Governor of a state saying "yeah, we just handed the streets over to Nazi militias because they had more guns than we do." The Governor of a US state is saying this.
posted by zachlipton at 5:12 PM on August 13 [155 favorites]


The important part isn't that he gets fired, it's that he can't get rehired by anyone else now that he's revealed who he is. I know I wouldn't hire him and it's not even personal retaliation - he's demonstrated his values don't align with my organization's core values.

Make it so, Berkeley.
posted by ctmf at 5:15 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


Also from that Vice article:
"We need to keep women on the sidelines. Not speaking, not leading, and with no official membership in anything."


Yep. In addition to the disgusting racism, white nationalism is also super predicated on sexism and strict gender roles, because of course, they need more white babies to keep "white culture" alive. If you go down the rabbit hole enough, white nationalist women sometimes complain that "all" WN men think they're good for is having more white babies, at which point one's brain breaks between the sort of tiny proto-feminist seed there and the idea that the women are asking for more respect and power in their disgusting racist circles.
posted by nakedmolerats at 5:18 PM on August 13 [17 favorites]


“And yet not a shot was fired, zero property damage.”

He's contradicting himself, though. There is no evidence that the police prevented escalation. For all we know, we were at the mercy of the nazis' self-restraint.

I mean, if McAuliffe admits the nazis were better armed than the police, doesn't that mean the police couldn't stop them if they decided to go all out?
posted by Tarumba at 5:19 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


Top Dog is a late-night Berkeley institution - they've got a good selection of grilled sausages, not just regular dogs - and an excellent opportunity to experience the cognitive dissonance of eating at a restaurant whose owner professes not to believe in health inspectors.
posted by atoxyl at 5:21 PM on August 13 [13 favorites]


“And yet not a shot was fired, zero property damage.”

In light of everything that happened, it's more than a little tone deaf to celebrate that nazi thugs might have beaten black men adjacent to the police station but at least they didn't break a window with their staves. Not to mention the nearly two dozen people run down with a car.

if McAuliffe admits the nazis were better armed than the police, doesn't that mean the police couldn't stop them if they decided to go all out?

It does. Which is problematic.
posted by Candleman at 5:24 PM on August 13 [32 favorites]


This is the Governor of a state saying "yeah, we just handed the streets over to Nazi militias because they had more guns than we do." The Governor of a US state is saying this.

A governor of a state whose laws permit open carry of both handguns and long guns. Whose laws also prohibit local preemption of state laws on guns. Whose state and local executives therefore legally have their hands tied in a situation like this, where "peaceful" armed demonstrators rally. And god knows how the authorities can tell the difference between a group of armed protestors who, in the event, did in fact refrain from firing their weapons, and a group of armed protestors fully prepared to or determined to open fire.
posted by Creosote at 5:26 PM on August 13 [28 favorites]


I must be dense. I don't get the top dog joke. (Not the political part, the working there part.)
posted by Room 641-A at 5:27 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


"From our plan, to ensure the safety of our citizens and property, it went extremely well."

Disagree. From your own metric, ensure the safety of our citizens - fail.
posted by ctmf at 5:27 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


McAuliffe sure milkshake ducked that one in a hurry.
posted by Yowser at 5:28 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


if McAuliffe admits the nazis were better armed than the police, doesn't that mean the police couldn't stop them if they decided to go all out?

That's why the National Guard was ready to be called in (which it was). The police were pretty much a symbolic presence once their firepower was outmatched. I guess it was to prevent alarm among the residents at the military showing up right away instead of the cops? Or maybe it would just be embarrassing to have the Guard standing there behind sandbagged fortifications before the nazis showed up.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:28 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Yeah this is what the second amendment has meant to me for quite a while now.
posted by traveler_ at 5:31 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]


Well there were those cars that got ran into when when the guy attempted vehicular mass-murder and those shirts that got bloodied and cut open by paramedics, or do those not count as property because they are covered by a different type of insurance?
posted by ckape at 5:34 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]


Or maybe it would just be embarrassing to have the Guard standing there behind sandbagged fortifications before the nazis showed up.

I would suggest instead this is the appropriate response to Nazis.
posted by mikelieman at 5:35 PM on August 13 [9 favorites]


By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you.
- Mike Godwin
posted by octothorpe at 5:38 PM on August 13 [82 favorites]


So far it's all fun and games for a lot of those weekend-warrior militia types. I mean, they're serious about protecting their home and family and whatnot, but the ones I know sure would shut the fuck up the first time one of them got shot at a protest.

Or TBH, they wouldn't STFU, but you wouldn't see them out there playing dress-up any more. They'd just talk big on the internet.

I'm sure some percent of them are true believers, but so far there are no consequences so the numbers are inflated.
posted by ctmf at 5:39 PM on August 13


What I experienced up close and personally growing up as a punk kid in Dallas in the 1980's was these dangerous fucks going on "pogroms" where they targeted white people who were in their minds "race traitors". Scary shit. A bunch of skinheads I tangentially and not-so-tangentially knew through the punk scene went to prison for these violent rampages that went on for a couple of years.

For a while i was surrounded by Oi, ARA (anti-racist Action)and Nazi skinheads and the confederate nazi guys spent a lot of effort trying to convert me into the aryan nation/white nationalist movement and uhh yeah it didn't take much for me to quickly isolate away from that shit, but it was EVERYWHERE in the punk scene back then.

The Nazis and militant white nationalist groups as I experienced them, range from militant white racists who mostly hate brown and black people, will mock and bully LGBT folks and also spout off never ending conspiracy theories about Jewish people running the world, over to raw aryan nation white supremacists who first and foremost virulently hate Jewish people And Eastern Europeans, followed by LGBT folks, while harboring a clinically cold viewpoint towards brown and black people as pretty much subhuman. That whole band of people is what I think we politely called "deplorables" during the election. The white nationalists in my view are more likely to be our racist uncles, while those aryan nation folks....those people are fucking evil to the bone. I can't really tell them all apart, but I think it's important to know and understand that there is a strain of white nationalism in the US that is focused on eradicating Jewish people; and that the problem space we are looking at encompasses more than a white pride/black lives matter political split, but also includes massive amounts of anti-semitism and anti-LGBT hatred as well. I feel we would be remiss in not explicitly acknowledging and keeping that in our thoughts on how to speak to and address this.
posted by Annika Cicada at 5:39 PM on August 13 [38 favorites]



There is a picture which I think has been posted already and is all over social media of a group of these Nazis beating a black man.

One has been identified. People found other pictures of him and apparently several of his classmates identified him. He is highschool. His identity has been reported to the police.

The netz are working at identifying as many as possible from that photo.
posted by Jalliah at 5:40 PM on August 13 [19 favorites]


Apparently these fucknuggets have a White Lives Matter rally planned at Texas A&M on September 11. But in good news, many Aggies are planning a counter protest. There's a vigil tonight for Charlottesville that I wasn't able to go to in Fort Worth. Friends tell me at least 200 ppl there
posted by emjaybee at 5:42 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


GVF

Sorry, I missed it but am sure it has been covered but what does this mean? I am not being successful on Google.


msalt posted this explanation, way upthread, but I've never heard it before - pretty obscure.
posted by Rash at 5:43 PM on August 13


I was at the march in Seattle. The cops were indeed shitty, but it looked like there were only a few minor injuries because nobody was crazy enough to try to fight them. After the march I went on my own to where the pro-Trump rally was being held. At first I wasn't even sure I was at the right place because most of the people I saw there were obviously protesters, and most of the rest were cops. The right-wingers left shortly after I arrived, and it was easier to tell who was who as they were being escorted away by the police. There seemed the only be a few dozen of them. They were all white an mostly male. One had a "Kekistan" flag on his helmet, but other than that I didn't see any overt displays of Nazi symbols. They didn't seem to be the kind of hard-core Nazis that showed up in Charlottesville.
posted by shponglespore at 5:45 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


80 percent of the people here had semiautomatic weapons

While there wasn't exactly a shortage of militia types with long guns, the photos and videos I've seen make them out to be a distinct minority -- more like 8% I'd say. The vast majority of RW actors seem to have been armed with staves/flagpoles, shields and things of that like. Frankly, I just spent a couple of minutes LOOKING through Google Images for any photographs of [fire-]armed militia members -- I know that I had seen some -- and wasn't able to find any.

So, yeah, out-of-touch CYA leaders gonna out-of-touch CYA leader.

I think they clearly did have "a plan", involving day-glo-vest policing, but it was quickly overwhelmed by reality and then they went to part B of their plan, riot-gear policing, but they were still vastly overwhelmed -- maybe just protecting the park and some other key locations -- such that the protesters were marching HERE and the ralliers were marching THERE and thought that was at least nominal. Plenty of evidence shows that this failed to prevent or even much limit non-concentrated spontaneous violence including beatings and homicide by motor vehicle.

Saying their hands were tied by an overwhelming number of guns is a cop-out. There's virtually nothing to support it.

Sorry, I missed it but am sure it has been covered but what does this mean?

It means that Scooby-squadders are tying themselves in knots trying to read meaning into the most minor of details. It's a red herring.
posted by dhartung at 5:45 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


Ok, so this Peter Cvjetanovic dickhead.

Does he not realize that Slavs are considered among the untermenschen by nazis, same as Jews and Roma?

It's almost poetically idiotic.
posted by notsnot at 5:49 PM on August 13 [15 favorites]


So, yeah, out-of-touch CYA leaders gonna out-of-touch CYA leader.

So where I work, it's accepted that some things are not always going to go 100% right. People are going to make mistakes, bad decisions will be made. The important thing is to learn from the mistakes. To identify trends before they become issues and react to small issues before they become big ones. To take effective corrective actions without being told.

The worst criticism one can get around here is "not sufficiently self-critical". If your ability to even recognize when you even have a problem sucks, there is no hope you can fix it. Worse, you probably have thousands of other problems not being addressed. When you get called not self-critical, that means you are about to get lots of "help" from external oversight organizations.

The Secretary of Public Safety saying "it went extremely well" is breathtakingly "not sufficiently self-critical".
posted by ctmf at 5:55 PM on August 13 [32 favorites]


notsnot: Ok, so this Peter Cvjetanovic dickhead. Does he not realize that Slavs are considered among the untermenschen by nazis, same as Jews and Roma?

I was going to make that comment, but then I looked it up. He's Croat, and Hitler liked Croats - apparently he thought they were Germanic people who just happened to speak a Slavic language.

But "Hitler liked us" is still an idiotic way choose a political stance.
posted by clawsoon at 5:55 PM on August 13 [20 favorites]


I had no idea a woman was practically the de facto leader of the KKK in the '20s.

The Truth About Women and White Supremacy
When it comes to identifying the perpetrators of racial hatred in this country, it is tempting to comfort ourselves with gender tropes. But women have always played a determining role in white-supremacist movements.

While the march in Charlottesville occurred in reaction to the proposed removal of a statue of a Confederate general, women were responsible for the erection of many of these Confederate statues across the country at the turn of the 20th century. In the 1920s, women composed the most influential arm of the KKK. And lest we forget the election that emboldened these modern white supremacists: More than half of white women voted for Trump. To overlook the comprehensive picture of who makes up the extreme right is to seriously underestimate its reach.

When we think of the Klan — one of this country’s most notorious and instantly recognizable hate groups — we imagine male faces under the pointed white hoods. But a historical examination of that organization’s most effective period tells a different story. The 1920s were a boom time for the Klan. Membership was roughly 4 million — a number that dwarfs the fringe organization that it is today — and carried no stigma.

While William Joseph Simmons was the founder of that era’s Klan, a woman was the mouthpiece and arguably its most influential member. According to historian Kathleen Blee’s book Women of the Klan, Elizabeth Tyler was “the first major female leader” of the 1920s Klan. In the midst of financial turmoil, the Klan hired Tyler to publicize and recruit new members. One of her most important contributions was galvanizing the KKK’s base by expanding the list of targeted Klan enemies beyond Black people: Catholics, Jews, immigrants, and communists. Under her leadership, the Klan underwent “a dramatic reversal of fortune.” An estimated 85,000 new members joined. At one point, insurgent Klansmen argued that she was the actual head of the Klan and that Simmons was just a figurehead. A congressional investigation agreed.
posted by chris24 at 5:55 PM on August 13 [21 favorites]


“And yet not a shot was fired, zero property damage.”

I don't understand this. A life was lost!
posted by rue72 at 5:56 PM on August 13 [52 favorites]


City officials in Cambridge, MA are organizing a Cambridge stands with Charlottesville rally for tomorrow at 5:30 p.m. at City Hall.
posted by adamg at 5:57 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


I must be dense. I don't get the top dog joke. (Not the political part, the working there part.)

I admit it is a tiny bit snobbish of me, but I'm just struck by the dissonance of someone claiming to be a big he-man superior-to-everyone type of dude...and his job is selling hot dogs. There's something very Ignatius Reilly about it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:03 PM on August 13 [19 favorites]


I'm just struck by the dissonance of someone claiming to be a big he-man superior-to-everyone type of dude...and his job is selling hot dogs.

He no doubt believes that the only reason he's not CEO of a billion-dollar tech startup is because of affirmative action.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:04 PM on August 13 [21 favorites]


A wonderful Twitter thread: Imagine if these people ever faced any oppression

Looks like some of them will be doing so now.
posted by Samizdata at 6:10 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Does [Peter Cvjetanovic] not realize that Slavs are considered among the untermenschen by nazis, same as Jews and Roma?

Well, does Jared not realise that his father-in-law is emboldening literal Nazis, like the ones who killed so many of his relatives? His grandmother Rae Kushner dug her way out of a ghetto and joined the Bielski partisans. Look at her effete sycophant of a grandson; she would have been so ashamed of him.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:11 PM on August 13 [25 favorites]


Looks like some of them will be doing so now.

Being rejected and ostracized as a result of your own abhorrent actions is not oppression. Oppression is by definition unjust ill treatment.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:14 PM on August 13 [38 favorites]


Man, I've committed myself not to calling out family members on my cousins' spouses social media (because "welcome to the family! now we're gonna fight on your Facebook wall!" is... not a good scene), but my Trump-loving aunt just replied to my cousin's wife's post about their experience in Cville with "glad you are home and safe! hope you can keep a greater distance from hate groups in the future," and I clearly need to shut down social media because WTF lady, maybe we can have fewer Nazis marching through cities have you thought about that no you haven't you think you're being clever not explicitly saying you think BLM is a hate group but we all see you, go fuck yourself.
posted by deludingmyself at 6:17 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]


Because this is where we are with 2017.... Tiki torch-maker decries use by white supremacists.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:20 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]


Just got back from the Seattle march. Wasn't able to get past the cops into Westlake. Every time we took another corner or alley they surrounded us. Even declared that we were under arrest at one point, through I have no idea why, we were even on the sidewalk. Ears are ringing from flashbangs but I got lucky and didn't catch any spray. The most minuscule use of force and the nice mom contingent declared retreat. Watched a cop van drive through a small crowd, people had to run out of the way and barely made it. Given the context I can only conclude that the driver cop is an actual nazi. The act of marching part way, singing a bit, then turning around and going home is American liberalism in a nutshell. Express one's self within the scripted confines, defer to authority and avoid all real challenge or danger. As if ending white supremecism would ever be easy or safe. It was nice that people cared enough to show. I look forward to seeing all of them back in the streets the next time SPD murders another unarmed POC. I'll be over here, holding my breath.

It's baffling how little people understand their own power. I hope they rediscover it before it's too late. The clock is ticking and people are dying.
posted by nwwn at 6:23 PM on August 13 [14 favorites]


The most minuscule use of force and the nice mom contingent declared retreat. Watched a cop van drive through a small crowd, people had to run out of the way and barely made it.

These two sentences seem to directly contradict each other, and one of them sets off a bunch of misogyny alarms.

You seem bitter that people weren't hurt today throwing themselves into danger, as though that were the only measure of devotion. It's not. It's how you escalate violent conflict.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:37 PM on August 13 [76 favorites]



It must be 2017.

Mike Godwin‏
@sfmnemonic

By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you.

For those that don't know he coined Godwin's Law.
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1."—‌that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or his deeds.
posted by Jalliah at 6:39 PM on August 13 [32 favorites]


nwwn: I'm thrilled you were out there making your voice heard and that you stayed and are safe, and I hope there is documentation of the police van, not that it will do a damn bit of good, but the holier-than-thou stuff over people who went home in the face of force from the police is infuriating. Not everyone is up for battling the Seattle Police Department in the streets on a Sunday, for all sorts of reasons. You yourself said the police nearly ran people over. Nobody is a coward if they're not in a position to put themselves at risk like that.
posted by zachlipton at 6:41 PM on August 13 [59 favorites]


making this be the context in which I explain to my kid about Nazis.

I'm sympathetic to your feelings here but one of the contexts that needs to be taught to kids is that Nazism can happen anywhere. Even here. Especially here.
posted by Candleman at 6:58 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]


Meanwhile, I'm watching some of the clips from Mike Bivins' livetweet of the Seattle protest, and I am legit tearing up. (In a good way.)
posted by XtinaS at 6:58 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


@stevesingiser: "What the actual....When TOM COTTON puts it in the middle of the fairway, how badly have you f***ed up?"

Cotton's statement:
"I'm currently traveling in the Balkans, where the long, violent history of ethnic supremacism still stalks the land and is a reminder of how unique America is. White supremacists who claim to 'take America back' only betray their own ignorance of what makes America so special: our country's founding recognition of the natural rights of all mankind and commitment to the defense of the rights of all Americans. These contemptible little men do not speak for what is just, noble, and best about America. They ought to face what they would deny their fellow citizens: the full extent of the law."
posted by lalex at 7:01 PM on August 13 [74 favorites]


contemptible little men

Damn, that would've been a great Hillary line. 2017, where Tom Cotton one-ups "basket of deplorables"!

Also, it makes me think Cotton might be sincere in a way that the other Republicans' statements didn't, because he took the extra step of emasculating them and you can't dogwhistle your way around that one with these guys.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:07 PM on August 13 [24 favorites]


Chad Nationalism

Nationalist militias across the Republic of Chad are rushing to issue statements disavowing these douchebags' racist ideology and fashion choices.
posted by mubba at 7:10 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


Express one's self within the scripted confines, defer to authority and avoid all real challenge or danger. As if ending white supremecism would ever be easy or safe. It was nice that people cared enough to show. I look forward to seeing all of them back in the streets the next time SPD murders another unarmed POC. I'll be over here, holding my breath.

I dunno. At this point, I have some street-fighting years, some "I'm going to oil out as soon as the arrests start to go down" years and some "I promised my partner I would not jeopardize my job and our ability to pay the bills by getting arrested on the two- or three- day holds they use now" years under my belt, and if I've taken any conclusion from all that, it's that we are unlikely to win broad victories by street actions, no matter how militant. It's not that street actions aren't useful in various ways, it's that they are not sufficient, and they do not increase in effectiveness by the mere fact of more arrests and beatings.

I think that militant public actions aren't going to be mass-militant enough without previous organizing. (Also, let's not rip on moms, here - if I had to get home to my kids, I would be extra unwilling to be there for the beat-down, and in any case, Americans all hate mothers for misogynist reasons.) Basically, I think people have to be prepared to be in the street in enough numbers and for a long enough time to shut things down, and that takes more than just a call on facebook and people who know each other from the punk scene - the DSA, the IWW, some unions, etc, do some good work on this front, but they aren't big enough or deep enough yet.

If people are supposed to go out on the street and fight the cops, several things need to be true:

1. A goal where we say "this was a win, let's go home" - I've seen so many marches go on and on as people have to leave, and the cops wait around until it's, like, forty people and then beat them up. People go in without a plan except "let's make noise" and that is a really bad idea.

2. Preparation and people accurately assessing risk. If I go to a march on the understanding that we're going to march a couple of miles, protest at city hall and call it a night, and then all of the sudden we're shutting down the highway and there's fifty million cops and I know that they're using three day holds, hell yeah I'm going to leave. I didn't show up prepared for a 50% risk of arrest. I need a lot of advance notice for that.

3. Solidarity and organizing. A lot of my marchin' friends have split town, or else family or health stuff have meant that they don't march much. I'm out there by myself a lot, and that makes me way less willing to do risky stuff. People need deeper political ties before they're going to be ready to do hard core stuff.

4. Getting ready to do hard core stuff. I've never heard of a serious militant movement that didn't have actual trainings for doing hard core stuff. One thing I've seen in the past years that I think is actively bad is the way that Facebook organizing has meant that a lot of radical organizers expect that random people are going to be ready for tear gas and arrest situations. Like, the last few big marches I've been on, I've ended up talking to someone who is totally freaking out because they are not ready and don't even know what would happen if they got arrested.

Speaking of moms, one of the people I met on a Ferguson solidarity march a few years ago was a young mother from waaaaaaaayyyyy out of the city who had driven in with her kid and was marching with the baby in a stroller, on the highway in the middle of winter, knowing nobody. She'd felt so moved that she came on in - she was from some kind of punk-and-tattoos scene, so she had some background, but she wasn't militant by any means. And she didn't want to get arrested with her baby, and was kind of freaked out, but she'd been pushing her limits, doing things that were kind of scary and new for her.

I mean, one problem with the whole "loosely planned reactive march" thing is that it does end up with "we're marching around, should we fight the cops, people are leaving, fuck them". It's a super bad dynamic, and it's one reason I really strongly support more planning and goals, so that people aren't left out there with no support.
posted by Frowner at 7:10 PM on August 13 [165 favorites]


Chad Nationalism? How about Hanging Chad Nationalism? It seemed to get the upper hand in 2000...
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:14 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Can an employer fire a publicly avowed white supremacist? David Yamada, a Suffolk University Law School professor who focuses on workplace issues, surveys the legal issues.
posted by adamg at 7:18 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


L O fucking L at Cotton's statement, honestly. That a Senator from Arkansas, one of the states of the Confederacy, with ongoing issues around racial segregation, a state that had "sundown towns" as recently as 2002 (if the Encyclopedia of Arkansas is accurate, anyway)...the "history of ethnic supremacism still stalks the land" in the good old U S of A. The racist assholes marching in Charlottesville aren't some sort of aberration.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 7:20 PM on August 13 [9 favorites]


When you've lost the NYPost...Editorial: Trump badly missed the mark on Charlottesville
‘We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides. On many sides.” Such was President Trump’s statement Saturday on the violence in Charlottesville, Va.

Really: That was it.

Yet “many sides” didn’t drive a car into a crowd, an evident act of terrorism that killed Heather Heyer, 32, and hospitalized many more, with some still in critical condition.

It shouldn’t be that hard to summon up a few Trumpian terms like “losers” and “really, really bad people” to describe the hundreds of neo-Nazis, Klansmen, white supremacists and the like who descended on the college town — not after one of them has killed an innocent.

No doubt the thousands of counterprotesters included a fringe of hard-left losers, such as the “antifa” thugs who seem to relish armed conflict. But the vast bulk of them had nothing to do with “hatred, bigotry and violence”: You don’t have to be any kind of radical to be anti-Nazi.
[I am always interested in what the Murdochs are doing]
posted by lalex at 7:21 PM on August 13 [26 favorites]


"Our country has changed."--Chief Justice Roberts in Shelby County v. Holder striking down large portions of the Voting Rights Act. (pic)
posted by triggerfinger at 7:32 PM on August 13 [54 favorites]


Sorry, I should have been more clear, I'm quite scattered at the moment. The van incedent happened after the retreat was halfway complete, at the tail end of the crowd (the people furthest from the 'leaders').

And you're right, I apologize for the gendered critisism. My personal archetype for this kind of thing is a family member, and I turn to that when I'm not thinking clearly.

You're also right that my response to these events is self-contradictory. The women's march left me with the same overwhelming blend of potential and despair. My inner voices, the romantic and the cynic, often speak in opposition of each other, which definitly makes me into an ass at times.
posted by nwwn at 7:32 PM on August 13 [21 favorites]






Springfield, MA cop wishes people would leave him alone and stop asking him about his Facebook comment applauding the death in Charlottesville.
posted by adamg at 7:45 PM on August 13 [16 favorites]


Between Sessions and Cotton - something's going on. This is in some talking points somewhere. I'm not sure what that means, has the GOP made a decision to start visibly distancing the party from the Nazis instead of the conspicuous not-support-but-not-criticism they've been doing?
posted by ctmf at 7:51 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]


@michaelianblack
Metaphorically speaking, yesterday the President stood in the middle of 5th Ave and shot somebody. Her name was Heather Heyer.
posted by chris24 at 7:55 PM on August 13 [82 favorites]


Between Sessions and Cotton - something's going on. This is in some talking points somewhere. I'm not sure what that means, has the GOP made a decision to start visibly distancing the party from the Nazis instead of the conspicuous not-support-but-not-criticism they've been doing?

I can't tell if it's that, or if it's kind of a "smooth things over until we disenfranchise all the minorities" thing. Hoping for the former, expecting the latter.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:55 PM on August 13 [13 favorites]


I read a book book recently. It's a scholarly book published by a very small academic press. It's about one of my Great Greats. I'm a white dude. I am excluded from the Mayflower Society due to madness on both sides. I am also the scion of an immigrant, who was run out on a rail from San Antonio for publishing a German-Language abolitionist newspaper. He then went on to create Kindergarten, and you will note the loan-words. He's what the book was about.

I mean, really, the dude just loved to pick a fight everywhere he went, and he had to move a lot, as he didn't win as many of them as he would like, from Germany to Texas to New Jersey. He would always fight on the side of the angels, no matter how hard he would be made to suffer for it.

I will be at Boston when they come. An old dude with a busted-up knee. And POC blood relatives. I feel my lineage seething through my blood. America is coming at you, Nazi scum. Prepare all you like, it will do you no good.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:04 PM on August 13 [36 favorites]


Metaphorically speaking, yesterday the President stood in the middle of 5th Ave and shot somebody. Her name was Heather Heyer.

My favorite part is he follows up with saying he's getting a lot of heat for that tweet and what he should have said is.... and then he just repeats the tweet verbatim.
posted by Justinian at 8:10 PM on August 13 [35 favorites]


I feel my lineage seething through my blood. America is coming at you, Nazi scum. Prepare all you like, it will do you no good.

So say we all.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:16 PM on August 13 [19 favorites]


The Times was a mixed bag, with some stories on the events in Charlottesville being quite equivocal, but also this story, Trump Is Criticized for Not Calling Out White Supremacists, which didn't pull its punches. It starts:
President Trump is rarely reluctant to express his opinion, but he is often seized by caution when addressing the violence and vitriol of white nationalists, neo-Nazis and alt-right activists, some of whom are his supporters.
And it then goes on to catalog some of Trump's support for racism, from his 1989 full-age ad calling for the death penalty of the Central Park Five to retweeting white supremacists to his failure to repudiate David Duke to the "sheriff's star" incident to birtherism.
posted by zachlipton at 8:22 PM on August 13 [15 favorites]


Governor McAuliffe also defended the police response, saying, “It’s easy to criticize, but I can tell you this, 80 percent of the people here had semiautomatic weapons.

Yeah, NYT deleted that later.
posted by meehawl at 8:26 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


GoDaddy is dumping The Daily Stormer after Amy Suskind called out a vile piece they published about Heather Heyer. They have 24 hours to find another hosting service. (Twitter -- includes nasty headline about Heyer)
posted by maudlin at 8:52 PM on August 13 [50 favorites]


I mean, "oops, we've been hosting one of the largest neo-Nazi sites on the internet, but we'll stop in 24 hours" is really the absolute minimum bar here.
posted by zachlipton at 8:56 PM on August 13 [91 favorites]


Hard as it may be to believe, the article is even more vile than the headline.
posted by chris24 at 8:56 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


We ARE talking about GoDaddy here.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:57 PM on August 13 [13 favorites]


Damn, even Fox is jumping on the fact that the Daily Stormer praised Trump's response.

@JuddLegum: (ThinkProgress)
Wow, brutal graphic from Fox News [IMAGE]
posted by chris24 at 9:02 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


I can't be the only one that thinks this Mike Bivins guy that keeps getting linked is suuuuuper sketchy?
posted by Yowser at 9:10 PM on August 13


I'm not on Twitter, but if someone wants to tweet GoDaddy with the following, I'd be much obliged:
Good decision. According to WHOIS lookup, they've been your client since at least March 2014. At your typical rates, you've earned at least $900 from hosting their hate speech and incitements to violence. Will you donate all the money they've paid you to the Southern Poverty Law Center, to prove you're not interested in profiteering off hate crimes?
posted by biogeo at 9:16 PM on August 13 [38 favorites]


it took me a few seconds but this is a pretty clever piece of graphic design
posted by lalex at 9:20 PM on August 13 [43 favorites]


I'd love to but I don't share user names across platforms (not that it would be hard to figure out who I am, I just don't want it to be *that* easy)
posted by Yowser at 9:20 PM on August 13


You go to the Daily Stormer article on Heyer and you get a phishing warning from Cloudflare. So someone is doing the Lord's work today.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 9:23 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Mike Bivins is awesome.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:35 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


So apparently Storm Front are using the CloudFlare CDS, as of right now. Seems like they might be a good next target for pressuring into booting these neo-Nazi/Confederate deplorables.

While CloudFlare can't take down the content, we can pressure them into stopping the widespread distribution of hate-based content as a source of revenue. Seems like a public name-n-shame on Twitter/Facebook + contact through their abuse form + phone calls tomorrow could be a way to go.

Points to hit:
  • Why is CloudFlare profiting off the widespread distribution of hate speech by distributing Storm Front's Content?
  • Why is CloudFlare okay with distributing this content.
  • CloudFlare must immediately cease doing business with Storm Front
  • Failure to do so means you will associate CF with neo-Nazism and warn everyone you know considering CDS to avoid CF.
    posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:36 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


    @ABC: NEW: White House clarifies Pres. Trump’s statement after Charlottesville: “He condemns all forms of violence, bigotry and hatred"

    @BillKristol:
    WH staff told Trump they had to put out a statement, but couldn't prevail on him to say it himself, in the first person. A revealing moment.

    ---

    Everybody fucking knows it's a huge, damaging mistake, but the racist fuck won't do the simplest thing to solve it.
    posted by chris24 at 9:37 PM on August 13 [51 favorites]


    DO NOT ENGAGE CLOUDFARE WITH ANY IDENTIFYING INFORMATION. YOU WILL BE DOXXED BY THEM.
    posted by Yowser at 9:41 PM on August 13 [27 favorites]


    More on CloudFlare. More.
    Since its launch in 2013, the neo-Nazi website The Daily Stormer has quickly become the go-to spot for racists on the internet. Women are whores, blacks are inferior and a shadowy Jewish cabal is organizing a genocide against white people. The site can count among its readers Dylann Roof, the white teenager who slaughtered nine African Americans in Charleston in 2015, and James Jackson, who fatally stabbed an elderly black man with a sword in the streets of New York earlier this year.

    Traffic is up lately, too, at white supremacist sites like The Right Stuff, Iron March, American Renaissance and Stormfront, one of the oldest white nationalist sites on the internet.

    The operations of such extreme sites are made possible, in part, by an otherwise very mainstream internet company—Cloudflare. Based in San Francisco, Cloudflare operates more than 100 data centers spread across the world, serving as a sort of middleman for websites—speeding up delivery of a site’s content and protecting it from several kinds of attacks. Cloudflare says that some 10 percent of web requests flow through its network, and the company’s mainstream clients range from the FBI to the dating site OKCupid.

    The widespread use of Cloudflare’s services by racist groups is not an accident. Cloudflare has said it is not in the business of censoring websites and will not deny its services to even the most offensive purveyors of hate.

    “A website is speech. It is not a bomb,” Cloudflare’s CEO Matthew Prince wrote in a 2013 blog post defending his company’s stance. “There is no imminent danger it creates and no provider has an affirmative obligation to monitor and make determinations about the theoretically harmful nature of speech a site may contain.”

    Cloudflare also has an added appeal to sites such as The Daily Stormer. It turns over to the hate sites the personal information of people who criticize their content. For instance, when a reader figures out that Cloudflare is the internet company serving sites like The Daily Stormer, they sometimes write to the company to protest. Cloudflare, per its policy, then relays the name and email address of the person complaining to the hate site, often to the surprise and regret of those complaining.
    posted by anem0ne at 9:42 PM on August 13 [68 favorites]


    Well, does Jared not realise that his father-in-law is emboldening literal Nazis, like the ones who killed so many of his relatives?

    Jared does not give a fuck about anything but money. He's entirely too busy shuttling Rosfnet cash between Trump-Russia accounts and the dark network of thousands of shadow LLCs to the failing Kushner-Russia real estate deals.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 9:43 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]






    Daniel (Dan) Borden - we found you. Your classmates turned you in. . . .
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:42 PM on August 13


    One of the comments in that thread makes an interesting tactical observation regarding Facebook commenting:
    If you've noticed the influx of negative right wing comments at the top of posts in your news feed, Facebook changed its algorithm so the posts with the most comments instead of the most likes sit at the top. This new Facebook policy is feeding the trolls.

    There are a couple things we can do to help.

    1. People need to quit responding to the trolls, then they won't get the top comment spot in a thread. They won't get the attention and responses they are craving.

    2. DO respond in the comments section of posts you agree with, even if it is just one word. As long as the pertinent posts are receiving more comments than the troll posts, then the troll posts will be relegated to the bottom, where they belong. So, don't feed the trolls.
    posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 9:48 PM on August 13 [28 favorites]


    What the hell is happening in Ohio? All the supremacists they are identifying from the pictures seem to be from OH.
    posted by Justinian at 10:08 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


    Oops, that one was from Nevada. Sorry, Ohio, you're only responsible for some of the white supremacists.
    posted by Justinian at 10:09 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


    (Lest CloudFlare be tarred exclusively as a bad actor, it... does some not terrible stuff too.)

    Which also destroys their pretense of neutrality. They care about “politically and artistically important organizations” and make sure “[i]n order to participate in the Project, a website must meet the following criteria”. They just want to care on their own terms. But their terms include ducking behind the fig leaf of no “affirmative obligation” when organized racists are the problem. To hell with that.

    If that sounds overblown and strident, well, they rat people out to Nazis. I can't imagine something lower down in the stupid/evil corner. If their policies and procedures produce that result, those policies are wrong.
    posted by traveler_ at 10:26 PM on August 13 [26 favorites]


    What the hell is happening in Ohio?

    It's not southern, but a lot of its people are. Romanticized nationalism among diasporas, rising to the point of terrorism (and even all-out war), is a thing.
    posted by Sys Rq at 10:38 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]


    Between Sessions and Cotton - something's going on. This is in some talking points somewhere. I'm not sure what that means, has the GOP made a decision to start visibly distancing the party from the Nazis instead of the conspicuous not-support-but-not-criticism they've been doing?

    Consider, though, that they're on August recess, and a lot of these GOP hacks are still operating on old conventional wisdom as if any of that holds anymore. They're probably hoping things will cool down for a couple of weeks if nothing else breaks (HAH). Then they can come back when the heat has died off and "reset" in September to get stuff done.

    Except, of course, there's no chance of things staying calm for even that long.

    I'll be happy if I'm wrong. Thrilled even. But right now I think Congress isn't in session and so all the Republican Congresscritters figure it's better to mollify their constituents and piss Trump off from afar than try to keep him happy when he's on vacation and risk the wrath of whatever locals they might run into in the next couple weeks.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:42 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


    A couple of times I've said really shitty things and been called on it. Once I repeated a homophobic joke from Attack of the Killer. Tomatoes in front of a gay friend. I remember the great self-loathing I felt when I realized I had just metaphorically shit the bed.

    And so it's so weird, thinking about the pressure Trump must be under to clearly and unequivocally denounce Neo-Nazis and how he clearly resisted it. If somebody went to another person and said, 'you should do this so that people don't think you're racist,' how do you argue against that? How are you not well I'll hop to it then.

    I mean, I know obviously Trump doesn't work this way, but it's just so odd to me that another human doesn't have this reflex.

    I mean apparently Ted Cruz has this fucking reflex, and we all know his human status is in question.
    posted by angrycat at 10:51 PM on August 13 [17 favorites]


    Shaun King:
    In the background of the photo of white supremacists brutally and illegally assaulting 20 year old Deandre Harris, you will notice a man overseeing it all.
    His name is Michael Tubbs. He spent YEARS in prison for plotting to bomb Black & Jewish prisons. He was a member of the KKK. He was caught stealing guns from the military for the KKK while he was a serviceman.
    He is a widely known white supremacist and a truly dangerous man. In Charlottesville, he was seen overseeing and ordering much of the violence. He broke multiple laws in doing so and should be arrested immediately.
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:04 PM on August 13 [74 favorites]


    'you should do this so that people don't think you're racist,' how do you argue against that? How are you not well I'll hop to it then.

    Obviously, the answer is, "But I am a racist." Trump can't denounce those he feels are loyal to him.

    Even if they're fucking Nazis.
    posted by mikelieman at 11:08 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


    In the background of the photo of white supremacists brutally and illegally assaulting 20 year old Deandre Harris [...]

    So glad I previewed, Other Joe, because I was just about to post that. There's no finer way to do the Lord's work than by helping to weed his garden.
    posted by Joe in Australia at 11:09 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


    HEY YOU'RE OTHER JOE I'M JUST JOE I THOUGHT WE'D SETTLED THIS

    Sorry, what I meant to say was:
    Charlottesville is an ugly reminder that America's racist past is very much alive
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:12 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


    Buzzfeed: What Really Happened in Charlottesville -- including a detailed breakdown of the groups present, and good narrative including geography of how the day went down. Among other things, it notes that the Three Percenters -- the militia guys with long guns -- actually stood down at one point, and pointedly disavow support for the white supremacist agenda (they're basically more purely anti-government), though they did help defend some of the leadership in retreat.
    Around noon, both state and local police declared Unite the Right and the demonstrations in the surrounding streets an unlawful assembly. They evicted everyone from Emancipation Park by a police line. Right-wing extremists and white nationalists fought the police, which is highly unusual. (At previous rallies in Berkeley and Portland, the alt-right has complied with police direction and sought permits for their gatherings, which has helped them maintain the stance that they are acting in self-defense when things get violent. The permits, in particular, ensure that their left-wing antagonists, often antifa in Black Bloc formation, end up on wrong side of a police riot shield.)

    In Charlottesville, though, white nationalists, including Spencer, leaned against police’s riot shields in a desperate attempt to keep their place. Police pushed them along the entire length of the park and down the stone steps into a waiting, screaming crowd.
    And as grim a scene as it depicts, I LOL'ed at this:
    One young white man carrying the black and white flag of Odinism started brawling with counter protesters even as his own comrades retreated.

    “Let’s get this race war started! Shoot me!” he yelled.

    Instead, a counter demonstrator stole his flag and tried to escape over a police fence. The man with the Odinist flag followed the protester, grabbed his backpack, and smashed his head into the metal barricade.
    There is also a discussion of a remarkable backchannel attempt to "prevent" (author's words) the event in the first place, which got right-wing figure CJ Ross disinvited. Confirmed by Charlottesville activist Emily Gorcenski on her Twitter.
    posted by dhartung at 11:22 PM on August 13 [13 favorites]


    I would love to see this statue destroyed, but it reminds me of my trip to Gori, birthplace of Stalin, in the republic of Georgia. Saakashvili had had the statue of Stalin removed in the middle of the night shortly before my visit because "that was the only time we could rent the crane."

    We got off at Stalin Station. Walked up Stalin Street. Passed Stalin Square where the Statue had been. Passed Stalin's birth house to the Stalin museum where a docent recalled us with tales of how amazing and powerful Stalin was.

    We can get rid of this statue, and all the other ones. But the infrastructure of racism runs so deep that my grandkids will still be fighting it.
    posted by nestor_makhno at 11:23 PM on August 13 [21 favorites]


    Nazi wants help finding hero that punched him. Asks on 4chan. Much LOLing occurs. Via @wyatt_privilege
    posted by Joe in Australia at 11:45 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]


    That would be comforting, but I think the only reason they're not helping him is he made the cardinal mistake of revealing who he actually was. (assuming I have my chan culture right. I don't indulge)
    posted by Yowser at 11:51 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


    Can anyone else confirm if Anonymous have just taken over The Daily Stormer ?
    posted by phigmov at 11:59 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


    Sean West Wispy:
    In the past year the alt-right has gone from a nascent and growing white nationalist movement with dangerous inroads to mainstream conservativsm to an increasingly isolated fringe group that just murdered someone at a rally. Their movement went from potentially having the ability to grow open white nationalist politics in the Republican party to being as isolated and dangerous for mainstream Republicans to associate with as nazi skinheads or the klan. They may have killed one of us yesterday, but their movement is now as good as dead. Say goodbye to your aspirations for power you low life creeps. Your numbers were dwarfed by progressives and anti-fascists yesterday and you could not hold the park where your white supremacist protest was scheduled to happen yesterday. That would have been the headline if you hadn’t murdered someone. You have been outmatched are now part of a pantheon of far right fringe groups that are isolated from the political power you so desperately crave. And we will never let you out the corner you are currently boxed in. So long creeps. You are getting walked the fuck off this stage of history. 😀
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:03 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    optimistic
    posted by ominous_paws at 12:20 AM on August 14 [14 favorites]


    Overly.
    posted by Yowser at 12:24 AM on August 14 [3 favorites]


    Nah, one of the following tweets in that thread nails it. It's that a *chan board is not your personal army [more here]. Asking openly for help like this is also an admission of weakness. If you really want something like this to happen it needs to be lulzy in execution or result.

    Can anyone else confirm if Anonymous have just taken over The Daily Stormer ?

    Welp. The site remains accessible and has a story on the front page allegedly signed by Anonymous [only go there if you want to be exposed to the rest of the site, obvs]. They haven't taken down "the hate", they say, because they want it on display for another 24 hours (I guess until the GoDaddy clock runs out?), so if anyone wants to archive that shit they'd better get on it. They also say they're threatening to geolocate the guy who runs it, so we may find out tomorrow.

    Barring a response that wrests back control of the site, this isn't a great advertisement for Cloudflare, I'd say....

    So long creeps. You are getting walked the fuck off this stage of history.

    I might fully agree with this except for the Buzzfeed overview that suggests they were trained and somewhat disciplined in their tactics. (After all, despite the presence of armed militias and who knows how many concealed carry types, nobody was shot.) Still, there seem to have been two key errors in the control-of-troops area, both in the clashes in and around the park turning physically violent, and in the murder-by-muscle-car. What I worry about in the foreseeable future is that this event served as a branding party, and while some groups might fold or blow over in a stiff wind, others might gain membership and acquire, essentially, both street-fighting experience and the lack of fear that follows losing that particular virginity. This showed that quite a few of them have a taste for blood and could work together despite [comparatively] wide ideological differences and aims.

    (I've never felt that the straight-up neo-Nazi stuff was going to dominate. The US has a long history of white nationalism that doesn't need all the early-20th-century uniforms and marching formations. This movement is still struggling to find its truly broad appeal and keeps trying to sell it with annoying geeks like Stephen Miller. Who, granted, probably has his main appeal with other annoying geeks.)

    But yeah, it's all fun and games until the FBI terrorism investigation. I want to hope, and there are signs like the handful of forceful GOP condemnations, but while it's clear that a dead girl [forgive the rhetorical point, referencing Edwin Edwards here] is bad for the brand, I'm also loathe to be confident that the actual tipping point has been reached. The last couple of years have not been kind to best-case scenarios, to put it lightly. With a heavy heart, I feel that Heather Heyer will be given companions in martyrdom before we're ready.
    posted by dhartung at 12:29 AM on August 14 [10 favorites]


    Just started reading the Charlottesville Syllabus compiled by UVa graduate students. There are six sections currently:
    1. The KKK, the Alt Right, and the History of White Supremacist Groups in Charlottesville
    2. Gentrification and the razing of Vinegar Hill, Charlottesville’s thriving black business district
    3. The Lost Cause, Memorialization, and Charlottesville’s Confederate Statues
    4. Slavery and Thomas Jefferson’s University
    5. The University of Virginia Pioneers the Eugenics Movement
    6. Jim Crow and Civil Rights organizing by students at the University of Virginia
    There is a lot of valuable analysis and source materials in the syllabus. I'm in the middle of reading “Tools of Displacement,” by Sophie Abramowitz, Eva Latterner, Gillet Rosenblith for Slate (23 June 2017)
    A history of Charlottesville’s Confederate monuments that traces how the installation of the statues in the early 20th Century functioned as the vanguard of gentrification, uprooting and displacing black and immigrant communities from local centers of political and financial power.
    Mucho mahalos to Joseph Gurl for sharing this.
    posted by spamandkimchi at 1:18 AM on August 14 [50 favorites]


    Can anyone else confirm if Anonymous have just taken over The Daily Stormer ?

    Welp. The site remains accessible and has a story on the front page allegedly signed by Anonymous [only go there if you want to be exposed to the rest of the site, obvs]. They haven't taken down "the hate", they say, because they want it on display for another 24 hours (I guess until the GoDaddy clock runs out?), so if anyone wants to archive that shit they'd better get on it. They also say they're threatening to geolocate the guy who runs it, so we may find out tomorrow.


    I can confirm they absolutely did not. I was directed there by someone who thought they had, but the post contains lots of clues that Andrew Anglin himself wrote it. I even read the comments; and there was much lolling and keking amid the memes of the commentariat.

    Anyway, I took one for the team. I am off to bleach my eyes.
    posted by louche mustachio at 2:29 AM on August 14 [13 favorites]


    I also visited Stormfront today, first time and (touch wood) only time. I just had to see what they would say about Heather Heyer.

    Holy shit what totally garbage people. I guess I already knew that, but the kind of glee they had for the murder if a WHITE woman... holy shit... it doesn't even make sense by their own fucked up rules.

    Seems Stormfront is not even meant for white people, just white men.
    posted by Meatbomb at 2:48 AM on August 14 [7 favorites]


    It's entirely understandable, Meatbomb, because they operate on the "with us or against us" mindset, and are convinced that the "against us" team is for their genocide.

    Therefore, any death on the "other side" is the death of an enemy combatant, and to be celebrated.

    It's very classic "othering," reinforced through a particularly racist and brutal set of filters.
    posted by Archelaus at 3:11 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    In the past year the alt-right has gone from a nascent and growing white nationalist movement with dangerous inroads to mainstream conservativsm to an increasingly isolated fringe group that just murdered someone at a rally. . . .
    I love the world this person lives in, but hoo-boy, when they come up for air they're going to be really disappointed when they look around.
    posted by schroedinger at 3:22 AM on August 14 [13 favorites]




    Stormfront's attitude to Heather Heyer makes perfect sense under their fucked up rules, given how much hatred they have for what they call "race traitors". (About thirteen years ago, when I was a super-anxious teenager, I decided that the best way to drive myself insane as an ethnic minority person in the UK was to become really familiar with the lingo, aims, and theories of white nationalists in Britain and abroad. I really regret the fact that that bonkers and niche obsessiveness is now of some practical value.)
    posted by Aravis76 at 4:06 AM on August 14 [13 favorites]


    Did anyone else see that #Yesyoureracist twitter feed say that the head of the U of Washington Young Republicans was there? Can anyone confirm that from a pic? If so, maybe someone with a twitter account could mention that on the U W Twitter, I don't tweet so I can't. Given the violence by the rightwingers at that Milo Yiannopolus speech at UW in January, it would be a data point if it were true that these Young Republicans are at least being led by someone who doesn't mind consorting with actual Nazis.
    posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 4:19 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    @TimFullerton
    This is what a hero looks like

    PHOTO: I Escaped the Nazis Once. You Will Not Defeat Me Now.
    posted by chris24 at 4:26 AM on August 14 [39 favorites]


    Did anyone else see that #Yesyoureracist twitter feed say that the head of the U of Washington Young Republicans was there? Can anyone confirm that from a pic?

    I think it's Washington State instead of UW? But either either way, wannabe-Sarah-Palin Cathy McMorris-Rogers is currently facing a lot of heat on her Facebook page because (much like Heller and the Nazis) she's pictured with the guy and offered a super mealthy-mouth defense of the photo op.
    posted by TwoStride at 4:29 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    Rust Moranis: Tom Bossert (DHS) is on Tapper right now insisting on "both sides" and "all groups" and refusing to even say "neo-nazi" or "white supremacist" or to condemn or assign any blame to racism/white nationalism. This is chilling.

    edit: he finally was forced to reluctantly say that he denounces nazis. He literally rolls his eyes first. It's disgusting.


    @costareports (WaPo, NBC)
    Bossert is the person who most accurately channeled Trump's thinking on #Charlottesville, per several ppl in Trump's circle

    ---

    Yep, disgusting.
    posted by chris24 at 4:33 AM on August 14 [16 favorites]


    I'm glad to see attention in print to the history and context of these memorials. At the ceremony where they dedicated UNC's , the speaker reminisced about horesewhipping an African-American woman on the street in front of the statue, since she had spoken non-deferentially to a white woman. That's what these things celebrate.
    posted by thelonius at 4:47 AM on August 14 [13 favorites]


    Here's a Twitter thread on the many memorials to slaves in the Caribbean, which highlights the absolute dearth of them in the United States and the many memorials to Confederate leaders.
    posted by PenDevil at 4:55 AM on August 14 [33 favorites]


    We got off at Stalin Station. Walked up Stalin Street. Passed Stalin Square where the Statue had been. Passed Stalin's birth house to the Stalin museum where a docent recalled us with tales of how amazing and powerful Stalin was.

    We can get rid of this statue, and all the other ones. But the infrastructure of racism runs so deep that my grandkids will still be fighting it.


    Yep. I was getting uppity against people on Twitter yesterday; in the process, I looked up how many other existing commemorations of Lee exist and was finding buildings, roads, towns, schools, and two state holidays.

    Good MERCY what spoiled babies these are.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:55 AM on August 14 [17 favorites]


    @emayfarris
    Worried about telling off a white supremacist or neo-nazi?
    Channel your inner Bill Baxley, Alabama's Attorney General in 1976 to KKK: LETTER

    "Dr." Edward R. Fields
    National States Rights Party
    P.O. Box 1211
    Marietta, Georgia 30061

    Dear "Dr." Fields:

    My response to your letter of February 19, 1976 is -- kiss my ass.

    Sincerely,
    BILL BAXLEY
    Attorney General


    ---

    My favorite part is the " " around Dr. both times. And fucking Alabama, in the 70s, better than Trump & Co.
    posted by chris24 at 4:55 AM on August 14 [64 favorites]


    @costareports (WaPo, NBC)
    Bossert is the person who most accurately channeled Trump's thinking on #Charlottesville, per several ppl in Trump's circle


    On MSNBC a little while ago, Costa said that Bossert was with Trump in Bedminster for at least part of the weekend, and also said sources had told him that Trump and a few people around him were watching coverage of Charlottesville on TV (gee, I wonder which channel?) and immediately keyed in on the counterprotesters as the people causing the problems. So Trump just ignored the talking points and text suggested by actual comms. people and went with "his instincts" on what to say about the "sides."
    posted by FelliniBlank at 5:09 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    Their movement went from potentially having the ability to grow open white nationalist politics in the Republican party to being as isolated and dangerous for mainstream Republicans to associate with as nazi skinheads or the klan. They may have killed one of us yesterday, but their movement is now as good as dead.

    On the other hand, one of them is the President.
    posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:15 AM on August 14 [14 favorites]


    Matt Novak/Gizmodo: Why Are Neo-Nazis on Twitter So Scared of Being Called Neo-Nazis?
    Yesterday’s rally of neo-Nazis, Klansmen, and so-called “alt-right” activists predictably devolved into violence. One anti-fascist protester and two police officers are dead, and dozens more were injured by neo-Nazis in a fascist rally at the University of Virginia. But after the streets were cleared, far right thugs who participated in the demonstration seemed only concerned with one thing: Not being called Nazis.

    It’s a curious thing that I’ve seen happen since President Trump was elected. People of the “alt-right” are very concerned about being called Nazis, even when they promote ideas that are unquestionably aligned with Nazism. There were literally Nazi flags at yesterday’s rally, and ABC News even made the obvious comparison to Nazi rallies of the 1920s and 30s on TV last night. But high-profile people from the protests have been clutching their pearls on social media whenever people have dared called them Nazis.
    See also: Godwin quote above
    posted by ZeusHumms at 5:27 AM on August 14 [9 favorites]


    Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe is on a special episode of Pod Save the People this morning with BLM activist DeRay Mckeson
    posted by T.D. Strange at 5:39 AM on August 14 [16 favorites]


    I made my morning swing through wral.com and of course the main story is the Charlottesville thing. Supposedly, Raleigh is a blue dot in the red sea. Holy shit the comments. I'm surrounded by horrible hateful assholes. The whole Soros conspiracy bullshit is there, free speech etc etc etc. Unbelievable.

    My mind wandered over when Dylann Roof is scheduled to be executed, so I searched. All I could think was what fresh hell awaits when THAT happens. That is tempered with, thinking. it should fucking happen NOW.
    posted by yoga at 5:43 AM on August 14 [3 favorites]




    And holy shit, Trump just immediately attacked him and Merck.

    @realDonaldTrump
    Now that Ken Frazier of Merck Pharma has resigned from President's Manufacturing Council,he will have more time to LOWER RIPOFF DRUG PRICES!
    posted by chris24 at 5:57 AM on August 14 [26 favorites]


    Did anyone else see that #Yesyoureracist twitter feed say that the head of the U of Washington Young Republicans was there? Can anyone confirm that from a pic?

    I think it's Washington State instead of UW? But either either way, wannabe-Sarah-Palin Cathy McMorris-Rogers


    The one I'm seeing is this tweet that identifies "James Allsup -- speaker at the alt-right rally, Wash State U. College Republicans president" with pictures including a screencap from Allsup's twitter announcement that he will be speaking at Unite the Right on the 12th.

    (I don't have a twitter account so just passing on the link here.)
    posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:01 AM on August 14


    Holy shit what totally garbage people. I guess I already knew that, but the kind of glee they had for yhe murder if a WHITE woman... holy shit... it doesn't even make sense by their own fucked up rules.

    Yes, white women who don't listen, decide that these men are the bees knees and fall to their knees in supplication to the 'movement' (and the men) get extra special form form of hatred. It is it's own category, a form of race and sexual betrayal. White woman are (obviously) absolutely necessary to have white babies and give the mens the sex. Refusal to play along = viseral rage.
    posted by Jalliah at 6:30 AM on August 14 [22 favorites]


    So, to re-cap:

    A bunch of butthurt white middle manager Nazi simps from the Midwest drove down to Virginia because they were mad about a city taking down a statue.

    The city's actual citizens were annoyed with this, and showed up to express their annoyance.

    The Nazis responded by whining a lot and hitting some people with a car (possibly the most suburban form of violence ever).

    The Trump administration responded with its usual dick-tripping hamfistedness.

    These fuckers are just lucky "Social Justice Warriors" aren't the violent thugs they project them as. This is Virginia, dudes. Lotta guns around here.

    Can you fucking imagine if me and a bunch of other cucks showed up in Indianapolis and started telling them what they can do with their statues?
    posted by aspersioncast at 6:44 AM on August 14 [8 favorites]


    And holy shit, Trump just immediately attacked him and Merck.

    @realDonaldTrump
    Now that Ken Frazier of Merck Pharma has resigned from President's Manufacturing Council,he will have more time to LOWER RIPOFF DRUG PRICES!


    Imagine if he attacked the Nazis with such ferocity.

    Although, in fairness, drug companies have killed more people with their high drug prices than domestic nazis.
    posted by Talez at 6:45 AM on August 14 [13 favorites]


    The Nazis responded by whining a lot and hitting some people with a car (possibly the most suburban form of violence ever).

    Don't forget going to town on that black kid, Deandre Harris, in a parking lot with a metal pole.
    posted by Talez at 6:46 AM on August 14 [7 favorites]


    ‘Evil Attack’ in Virginia Is Domestic Terrorism, Sessions Says, Eileen Sullivan, NYT
    “It does meet the definition of domestic terrorism in our statute,” Mr. Sessions said on ABC’s “Good Morning America,” referring to a fatal attack on Saturday when a vehicle drove into a crowd protesting white nationalists, killing one woman and injuring others. A 20-year-old man has been arrested and charged with second-degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding and failing to stop at the scene of a crash that resulted in a death.

    “You can be sure we will charge and advance the investigation toward the most serious charges that can be brought because this is unequivocally an unacceptable evil attack,” Mr. Sessions said, adding that terrorism and civil rights investigators were working on the case.
    posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 6:51 AM on August 14 [10 favorites]


    Although, in fairness, drug companies have killed more people with their high drug prices than domestic nazis.

    Do you think that Trump really gives a shit about high drug prices? It was just the most convenient thing that he could think of to beat up on someone who he felt had betrayed him.
    posted by octothorpe at 6:51 AM on August 14 [15 favorites]


    [A few deleted, apparent hoax claim of new Melania Trump plagiarism re Charlottesville response.]
    posted by taz at 6:56 AM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    Under so many of these Republican condemnations, I just can't help but hear the silent "omg you guys you're supposed to keep it on the DL, stop ruining white supremacy for the rest of us!" They're going to go after Fields and then declare racism solved.

    And like honestly none of these Nazi assholes are going to feel chastened. They know what's up. They know these statements are necessary for these politicians to stay respectable and in power. And they know that the Republican Party will have the backs of white people forever. They know that these statements mean precisely zero without actual actions towards the dismantlement of the rampant white supremacy within all levels of the Party. No one's widdle feelings are going to be hurt by Sessions getting mildly shirty on national TV. They see the crossed fingers behind the backs of the entire GOP.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 6:59 AM on August 14 [55 favorites]


    His name is Michael Tubbs. He spent YEARS in prison for plotting to bomb Black & Jewish prisons. He was a member of the KKK. He was caught stealing guns from the military for the KKK while he was a serviceman.
    He is a widely known white supremacist and a truly dangerous man. In Charlottesville, he was seen overseeing and ordering much of the violence.


    I wonder how much that attack was a deliberate blooding, to build and radicalise the movement, it was part of the original Brownshirt playbook [2nd to last para] and it does seem like some of them have done their reading and are trying to recreate that past.
    posted by Buntix at 7:00 AM on August 14 [9 favorites]


    Imagine what kind of asshole you would have to be for a pharma CEO to look like the good guy by comparison.
    posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:00 AM on August 14 [39 favorites]


    Whatever the motive, I think there's no turning back on declaring white nationalists terrorists. It's too bad it came too late for McVeigh and Dylan Rooff. I mean, there's no turning back as long as the media holds people to that.
    posted by Room 641-A at 7:04 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    (I mean the motive of Sessions, et al)
    posted by Room 641-A at 7:04 AM on August 14


    If you didn't know the Merck CEO is black. Trump sure is quick to denounce this guy for some reason
    posted by edeezy at 7:09 AM on August 14 [50 favorites]


    Do you think that Trump really gives a shit about high drug prices? It was just the most convenient thing that he could think of to beat up on someone who he felt had betrayed him.

    That someone also happens to be an African American.
    posted by Mister Bijou at 7:10 AM on August 14 [16 favorites]


    If Trump does say something today I would expect it to be in the same unconvincing, put-upon, vindictive way he finally said he thought Obama was born in the US.
    posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:11 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    I think it's pretty clear that Trump said the second thing that came to mind.
    posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 7:12 AM on August 14 [10 favorites]


    For anyone that thinks Anonymous might have taken over the Daily Stormer, you might pause to consider that noted Nazi and Internet Troll, Andrew "weev" Aurenheimer is very involved in that site. He would totally "hack" himself to laugh at people that believed it.

    Which is not to say that Anonymous didn't take over the site, but you can't disprove either hypothesis with the available evidence.
    posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:15 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    If Trump does say something today I would expect it to be in the same unconvincing, put-upon, vindictive way he finally said he thought Obama was born in the US.

    It's really too late at this point. The dithering, bothsides-whataboutism over the weekend was enough to convince the neo-KKK that Trump is on their side. If he condemns them now, now matter how he comes off, sincere or begrudging, they'll all think that it's a bit of sleight of hand he was forced into by the (((globalists))) in his cabinet, and that he's still 100% behind him. The same thing happened back when he refused to denounce the KKK the first time, and then again and again and again.
    posted by dis_integration at 7:16 AM on August 14 [9 favorites]


    I wonder how much that attack was a deliberate blooding, to build and radicalise the movement, it was part of the original Brownshirt playbook [2nd to last para] and it does seem like some of them have done their reading and are trying to recreate that past.

    What ought to be pointed out to these young men - disgusting as they are - is that they are the ones who are going to go to jail. Beardy Stand-Around has some deniability because he didn't actually hit anyone.

    It may be part of the Brownshirt playbook, but no one had phone cameras back then - you can't just beat someone and fade away into the crowd now.
    posted by Frowner at 7:18 AM on August 14 [13 favorites]


    Do you think that Trump really gives a shit about high drug prices?

    Back when the Senate was making it's secret bill, I read an interview with a healthcare economist who had actually spent time with Trump, and he said that he thinks that Trump actually does care about the issue of high drug prices, perhaps because it is a simple idea that he can understand: Prices are too high! Only Trump can make lower!
    posted by thelonius at 7:20 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    The Nazis responded by whining a lot and hitting some people with a car (possibly the most suburban form of violence ever).

    I think this is a gross oversimplification and minimization of what happened. A human being - Heather Heyer - lost her life and the perp is being charged with murder.

    Also, vehicle-ramming terror attacks are primarily urban, not suburban.
    posted by zakur at 7:25 AM on August 14 [19 favorites]


    Re the "race traitor" thing, I know next to nothing about white supremacists but I've noticed in general you can predict how white supremacists feel about a thing by trying to imagine Lucius Malfoy reacting to it? Maybe this only works if you've read a lot of Harry Potter fanfiction, but lots of people on the internet meet that description, so.
    posted by potrzebie at 7:25 AM on August 14 [18 favorites]


    Most white supremacists don't have Lucius Malfoy's sense of style.
    posted by Archelaus at 7:31 AM on August 14 [13 favorites]


    “The Perpetual Unpleasantness,” Chuck Reece, Tim Turner, and Tom Lee, The Bitter Southerner, 14 August 2017
    posted by ob1quixote at 7:34 AM on August 14 [8 favorites]


    After Nazi Germany surrendered, the Allied powers undertook a massive program of de-Nazifying Germany. It was an effort that included tearing down Nazi monuments, but more critically one that involved including education about the evils of Nazism in German schools and propaganda and legal efforts to prevent a Lost Cause style mythology from growing up around Nazism.

    As a result today in Germany there isn't much of a pro-Nazi faction.

    Following the surrender of the Confederate States of America, the USA failed to engage in a program of de-Confederatizing the South, and after a few years of token efforts the US essentially abandoned the South and the black people there to the vengeance of their white neighbors [1].

    As a result the Lost Cause narrative took root in the South and quickly spread across the nation as a whole. Starting in the 1920's and lasting through the early 1950's there was a massive program of erecting celebratory monuments to the Confederacy everywhere across the USA, it was most successful in the South, but the United Daughters of the Confederacy (and to a somewhat lesser extent the Sons of Confederate Veterans) were quite successful in enacting their program nationwide.

    We are now the inheritors of that shameful legacy of cowardice and duty shirking of our post-Civil War ancestors in the North. They won the shooting war, but failed to carry through the victory and truly defeat the enemy ideology.

    That falls to us now.

    We must recognize that the task is a de-Confederatizing program that will be more expensive and require more effort than the de-Nazification program in Germany ever was. It will involve protests that make the ones we've seen seem small by comparison, multiple lawsuits, and a loud proclamation of victimhood coupled with acts of violence from the white supremacist forces.

    Simply tearing down the physical monuments is necessary, but not sufficient. We must take over boards of education across the USA and impose educational standards that explicitly reject Lost Causeism and teach the truth about the Civil War and the Confederate States of America.

    That too will be violently opposed and prompt loud cries of revisionism and using schools for indoctrination. It is incumbent on us to ignore those lies and pursue the corrective education of children across America without hesitation or doubt.

    Because the murder of Heather Heyer is merely on in a long chain of people, mostly people of color, murdered by white supremacists intent on preserving their false history and domination of US politics. As long as they are permitted to keep the Lost Cause myth alive there will be more killings. Their mythology demands it.

    The only way to truly end this is to do the job that our ancestors failed to do in the 1870's. We must grind out the ideology of Confederatism and raise up a generation of American children who are as indoctrinated against Confederatism as German children are as indoctrinated against Nazism. And we must do this in the face of loud and often violent opposition from those who want to preserve the lies they currently teach children.

    The violence will only end when Americans as ashamed of the Confederate Battle Flag as Germans are of the Nazi flag. If that seems like a difficult task, it is. But it is not impossible. We **CAN** root out Confederatism and we must. The memory of Heather Heyer, of Martin Luther King Jr, of Malcolm X, of Trayvon Martin, of Emmett Till, of Tamir Rice, and all the other victims of white supremacy demand it.

    [1] And, it should be added, the North engaged in a program of systemic murder of any black people who tried to settle in the North outside of a few black parts of major metropolitan areas. We think of lynching as mostly being confined to the South, but black settlers in the North were murdered at an astonishing rate, and that's one major reason why so few black people fled their oppression in the South.
    posted by sotonohito at 7:35 AM on August 14 [197 favorites]


    Sorry, not trying to minimize that someone died, just to point out how awful and ridiculous it all is. Especially in light of recent legislation in a number of places to essentially legalize hitting protesters with cars, it's probably not something to be glib about.
    posted by aspersioncast at 7:35 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    Damn that is a good Bitter Southerner piece. I was actually just talking them up the other day to a friend and colleague of mine on Twitter who is also a Southerner and completely fucking done with the Confederate flag, pissed off and angry about pro-Confederate memorials on her field sites. I'm delighted to be able to start her off with that piece, right there.
    posted by sciatrix at 7:42 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]


    To be fair, drug companies have also saved many more lives than they sometimes get credit for. Which reminds me that Merck makes Propecia, the hair loss drug Trump is known to take (via his own doctor's note from last year).

    Maybe Merck ought to tweet back: Be a real shame if something were to happen to your hair, bro.
    posted by spitbull at 7:55 AM on August 14 [40 favorites]


    We think of lynching as mostly being confined to the South, but black settlers in the North were murdered at an astonishing rate, and that's one major reason why so few black people fled their oppression in the South.

    I have no other bones to pick with your otherwise excellent comment, but: actually, many many black people did flee their oppression in the South anyway, under the theory that a chance of something better is an improvement from the certainty of something terrible. The Great Migration saw almost half the entire African-American population of the US leaving the South over the course of fifty years, mostly for Northern and Midwestern urban areas, and while they were met with hostility and aggression every step of the way, from their travels with minimal and uncertain places to rest along the way to their reception in cities that tried to push them out and then tried to confine them if they could not be rejected--

    still they did go.
    posted by sciatrix at 7:56 AM on August 14 [42 favorites]


    Well, it looks like I'm going to eat the world's tiniest hat. That Trump-loving aunt I commented about in a bit of a rant earlier? Just linked to this essay on Charlottesville, which is... pretty good for her being a die-hard Trump supporter, honestly.
    "This is racism.
    This is domestic terrorism.
    This is religious extremism.
    This is bigotry.
    It is blind hatred of the most vile kind.
    It doesn’t represent America.
    It doesn’t represent Jesus.
    It doesn’t speak for the majority of white Americans.
    It’s a cancerous, terrible, putrid sickness that represents the absolute worst of who we are.

    No, naming it won’t change it, but naming it is necessary nonetheless. It’s necessary for us to say it—especially when the media won’t, when our elected leaders won’t, when our President won’t. It’s necessary to condemn it so that we do not become complicit in it."
    I mean, I have some quibbles with any language that jumps too quick to "condemn, and now I'm good, job done!" but on a very personal level, seeing her put this out to all her (also Trump-loving) friends makes me wonder if possibly, just possibly, we are approaching some of Trump supporters' true "surely this" tipping point. I don't actually have any hope or belief to this effect, just this dull feeling where hope used to sit this time last year.
    posted by deludingmyself at 7:59 AM on August 14 [46 favorites]


    Also, emjaybee:

    > Apparently these fucknuggets have a White Lives Matter rally planned at Texas A&M on September 11. But in good news, many Aggies are planning a counter protest. There's a vigil tonight for Charlottesville that I wasn't able to go to in Fort Worth. Friends tell me at least 200 ppl there

    Reminder's been buzzing in my Austin circles, too, and that's with me having taken a big step back from Facebook. When I'm done with this other project I'm working on, might see if anyone wants to carpool from UT to help out some Aggies. I haven't gotten my teaching schedule yet, but even if I am teaching on Mondays... well, I might just sit down with my students at the beginning of the year and have a chat about what is happening and why.
    posted by sciatrix at 8:00 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    Dilbert's Bad Day
    posted by PenDevil at 8:04 AM on August 14 [17 favorites]


    angrycat: If somebody went to another person and said, 'you should do this so that people don't think you're racist,' how do you argue against that? How are you not well I'll hop to it then.

    I know the answer to this. It's a very stupid answer, but I see it again and again: "I'm not a bad person. By calling me racist, you're saying I'm a bad person. Therefore you're bad for making me feel bad, and that justifies me getting angry. You're the bad person for starting this argument."

    And I think they believe it. Or they've convinced themselves to believe it.
    posted by clawsoon at 8:10 AM on August 14 [37 favorites]


    I mean, I have some quibbles with any language that jumps too quick to "condemn, and now I'm good, job done!" but on a very personal level, seeing her put this out to all her (also Trump-loving) friends makes me wonder if possibly, just possibly, we are approaching some of Trump supporters' true "surely this" tipping point. I don't actually have any hope or belief to this effect, just this dull feeling where hope used to sit this time last year.
    posted by deludingmyself at 4:59 AM on 8/14


    eponhereshopingyouainterical
    posted by progosk at 8:13 AM on August 14 [8 favorites]


    Convicted felon Dinesh D'Souza more than "taught" at The Kings College, an odd and very scammy offshoot of the strange and cultish history of the former Campus Crusade for Christ (which basically had bought out a defunct NJ liberal arts college in the 1970s). He was briefly its very well compensated president, appointed in 2010 by creepy provost Marvin Olasky, in order to put the college on the map and raise funds. (NYT story from 2012). He was kicked out by Olasky after his extramarital affair came to light. TKC has only a few dozen students and operates out of an office suite in the financial district. It has long had a minor role in the wingnut welfare system, although it is actually accredited. A few years ago I had reason to study the place and it creeped me right out.
    posted by spitbull at 8:15 AM on August 14 [18 favorites]


    Just found out today that this fucker, who's apparently been acting as Kessler's attorney, operates just a couple of miles from where my mom lives. Still trying to process that info.
    posted by non canadian guy at 8:15 AM on August 14


    Trae Crowder - Liberal Redneck - Virginia is for Lovers, not Nazis (YouTube video, 2min16sec).
    posted by phoque at 8:17 AM on August 14 [7 favorites]


    dhartung: Nah, one of the following tweets in that thread nails it. It's that a *chan board is not your personal army [more here]. Asking openly for help like this is also an admission of weakness. If you really want something like this to happen it needs to be lulzy in execution or result.

    Is this the point that 4chan realizes that Trump is not, in fact, in it for the lulz?
    posted by clawsoon at 8:27 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    I know the answer to this. It's a very stupid answer, but I see it again and again: "I'm not a bad person. By calling me racist, you're saying I'm a bad person. Therefore you're bad for making me feel bad, and that justifies me getting angry. You're the bad person for starting this argument."

    And I think they believe it. Or they've convinced themselves to believe it.


    Yeah, I guess I know this. I remember the last time I got frustrated with an accessibility issue and blundered into it without my diplomat hat on, I manage to piss off a number of people. Telling people 'x is the law,' when it comes to disabled access issues, boy, people get tense quick.

    ETA not trying to equate accessibility issues with Nazi homicides, just, I get that psychology
    posted by angrycat at 8:34 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    I have so much to say and I am struggling for the words. I'm angry. On a different level for the last two days than I have been since November 9th or 10th.

    1. May Heather Heyer's name and deeds be remembered across the generations.
    2. I am somewhat surprised it didn't happen earlier, but I'm not at all surprised it happened. I predicted it numerous times in previous threads and it is exactly what I've been expecting.
    3. I am angry in a way that I don't like. I am 100% pro Nazi-punching, but I went to the market this weekend and looked at every white face with suspicion. Especially young white men. I know that people of color experience this constantly, but while I try to be aware of the suspicion of others, I am usually not aware of it coming from myself, unless I am surrounded by teen aged boys. A privileged position to be sure.

    On white women:
    Glennon Doyle, one of the original celebrity mommy bloggers (momastery) who has since divorced her husband and is now in a relationship with Abby Wambach (of soccer fame). This weekend, she wrote with a great deal of honesty and humility about being a white family and what they are doing/would have done/want to be perceived as in our racist current environment. (Facebook link) She begins with a lie and then a very honest truth from her 10 year old daughter and speaks honestly about how her family benefits from white supremacy. And then the comments. If you don't know any white women who voted for trump, go look, they're all right there in her comments making excuses, looking the other way and shuffling blame. I knew they were here, but I have never seen so many of them in one place. It's enlightening for those of us who live in blue enclaves surrounded by people who think like us.
    posted by Sophie1 at 8:39 AM on August 14 [54 favorites]


    Random Twitter Roundup:

    Kurt Eichenwald‏ (@kurteichenwald): Remember Trump couldnt say "Jews" for Holocaust memorial? Now can't say "Nazis" or "White supremcists." Its "He means everyone" both times.

    Virginia Rep. Don Beyer (@RepDonBeyer): Donald Trump's staff asked him to personally deliver a statement denouncing white supremacists. He refused.

    Rep. Maxine Waters (@MaxineWaters): Trump has made it clear - w/ Bannon & Gorka in the WH, & the Klan in the streets, it is now the White Supremacists' House. #Charlottesviille

    Sen. Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris): If we say this is not who we are, it’s on us to show that. We don’t have to let extremists define our nation.
    posted by Doktor Zed at 8:40 AM on August 14 [52 favorites]


    Sophie1: May Heather Heyer's name and deeds be remembered across the generations.

    A suggestion from another forum: Replace the Lee statue with a statue of Heather Heyer.
    posted by clawsoon at 8:45 AM on August 14 [42 favorites]


    well, if a rally is "White Lives Matter" themed, we need to show up en masse with signs saying "Heather Heyer's Life Matters".
    posted by oneswellfoop at 8:46 AM on August 14 [21 favorites]


    I'm trying to keep on eye on my whiteness by remembering the black women who have been killed by white supremacy/misogyny/trans misogyny before Heather Heyer was and I would like to see us demand and advocate for statues for them as well.
    posted by Annika Cicada at 8:50 AM on August 14 [89 favorites]


    Anybody have any write-ups to their congress enablers? I'm a little to0 pissed off to write anything that isn't just a stream of expletives and accusations. I have Toomey....*glare.
    posted by cui bono at 8:51 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    I bet those conversations between Trump and the WH staffers who asked him to release a statement denouncing Nazis ended with him turning the volume on Fox News up louder and louder until they left the room.
    posted by The Card Cheat at 8:53 AM on August 14 [8 favorites]


    Josh Marshal (TPM) with a short piece entitled: Don't be a Chump
    He’s already made crystal clear where he stands here. The question is how we individually and as a country are going to deal with that fact, not how many more mulligans we’re going to give him.
    Point is that any denunciation from that man is way too late and would be totally bereft of meaning. He's on their side. He and his enablers must be held accountable for their inadequate words and horrifying actions.
    posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:53 AM on August 14 [20 favorites]


    Okay, apparently so pissed off that I edited for a typo and then made another typo. That's just sad. Maybe I should just go to the Tuesdays with Toomey tomorrow?
    posted by cui bono at 8:53 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    cui bono, at least your representative made a statement. My rep (Rodney Frelinghuysen) is the only NJ congressperson who hasn't made a statement.
    posted by MsVader at 8:55 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    Toomey did manage to clear that low bar at least. Scooby Snack for him.
    posted by cui bono at 8:58 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    cui bono, if you see me at the TwT tomorrow, say hi. I'll be the chick in the wheelchair with the freakishly muscled arms.
    posted by angrycat at 8:58 AM on August 14 [8 favorites]


    I'm trying to keep on eye on my whiteness by remembering the black women who have been killed by white supremacy/misogyny/trans misogyny before Heather Heyer was and I would like to see us demand and advocate for statues for them as well.

    None of us should diminish Heather Heyer's significance. We should also never lose sight of how different the conversation about her in the media would become if she wasn't a white woman. If she were a person of color, we'd already be hearing about how she wasn't an angel in some way.

    What happened to her hurts. I feel awful for her and for everyone who loved her. And I also keep thinking about how gross it is to see the death of a white woman resonate so much when so many black men and women have died to nowhere near this degree of reaction from white America.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:01 AM on August 14 [73 favorites]


    I bet those conversations between Trump and the WH staffers who asked him to release a statement denouncing Nazis ended with him turning the volume on Fox News up louder and louder until they left the room.

    And the other staffers who are thinking "Yeah! I can manipulate him to advance my own sick racist agenda!" I have the feeling sometimes when T tweets, there are people standing over him telling him exactly how to make it more provocative.
    posted by Melismata at 9:10 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    BBC is report that Charlottesville car-ram suspect James Alex Fields denied bail. He also won't get a public defender because the attack directly affected someone in the public defender's office. Instead an unlucky lawyer was appointed for him. That lawyer has yet to be informed of his new client yet.
    posted by papercrane at 9:13 AM on August 14 [28 favorites]


    Is this the point that 4chan realizes that Trump is not, in fact, in it for the lulz?

    No, they don't care for the most part. They just enjoy spreading grief on anyone they feel it's a fun target and this guy painted a bullseye on himself by asking for help.
    posted by Candleman at 9:13 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]


    Will do, if I don't spontaneously combust with rage in the meantime. Does anyone know why the story about Deandre Harris isn't being covered as much? That was basically what they wanted to do - find minorities and beat them up. And all of those militia people who said they were there to "keep the peace" just standing there. That seems like a big deal in this story. And the part where they beat up the people the night before, including the transgender woman that they'd been harassing? I want all of these stories to be told and held up as to why this was awful, but I'm guessing media bias and sensationalism? There are so many reasons why these people are terrible, and they should be shared far and wide.
    posted by cui bono at 9:14 AM on August 14 [12 favorites]


    Does anyone know why the story about Deandre Harris isn't being covered as much?

    Melanin.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:15 AM on August 14 [60 favorites]


    EmpressCallipygos: NPR was just interviewing Wes Bellamy, the Vice-Mayor of Charlottesville now; the reporter began a comment with something like, "So as I understand this all started with the city removing a statue of Robert E. Lee...." and Bellamy completely went off on that, pointing things squarely and firmly at a lengthy history of white supremacy.
    ...
    I want a transcript. really bad.


    White Supremacist Rally In Virginia Turns Violent (NPR, Aug. 12, 2017) -- A white supremacist rally in Charlottesville turned violent Saturday, with a vehicle plowing into the crowd. Vice Mayor Wes Bellamy reacts to the incident.

    Oh shit, it starts off terribly:
    STACEY VANEK SMITH, HOST:

    Now let's turn to Wes Bellamy. He's the vice-mayor of Charlottesville. He joins me now by phone.

    Hi, Wes.

    WES BELLAMY: Hi. Dr. Wes Bellamy.

    SMITH: Dr. Bellamy.

    BELLAMY: I just got my doctoral degree yesterday, so I'm still basking in the glow.

    SMITH: Congratulations. And thank you for taking the time.

    BELLAMY: Thank you. In all seriousness, thank you.

    SMITH: So we have one person dead in Charlottesville, a reported 19 injured. What is your reaction...
    His reaction is to brag about getting his doctoral degree. Oh, and then his reaction is that he's "Disappointed, to say the least." OK, disappointed and heartbroken about the actions and beliefs of white supremacists.

    Charlottesville Vice Mayor Wes Bellamy Reacts To White Nationalist Rally (NPR, Aug. 13, 2017) -- Yesterday, we invited Wes Bellamy on the program. He is the vice-mayor of Charlottesville. Unfortunately, we ran out of time while speaking to him live, and we wanted to bring him back to finish our conversation and to check back in to see what's happening in Charlottesville.

    He has time to describe more of the tragic, racist history of Charlottesville, and talks about
    posted by filthy light thief at 9:17 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]


    Melanin

    *smoking pile where cui bono used to be*
    posted by cui bono at 9:20 AM on August 14 [3 favorites]


    Before he joined Merck, Ken Frazier was a lawyer who freed a man from Death Row by showing the conviction was racially biassed (CNN, beware autoplay). No wonder 45's frothing at the mouth at such impertinence to his master.
    posted by Devonian at 9:27 AM on August 14 [23 favorites]


    Trump's going to try to talk about Charlottesville again. Hopefully he's had a security briefing where it was revealed that Nazis are bad
    posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:31 AM on August 14 [12 favorites]




    I'm just glad to see that federal agents are still giving right-wingers fake explosives instead of real explosives
    posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:34 AM on August 14 [25 favorites]


    @mattdpearce: On the same day as Charlottesville, a Three-Percenter drove a dummy truck bomb into Oklahoma City and tried to detonate it with his phone

    Here's the complaint [via @big_cases].
    posted by melissasaurus at 9:39 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    Walter D. Greason twitter thread on resources for learning about the history of collective racial violence in the United States (storify link). The resources are from the only course he decided never to teach again, because it traumatized the students.

    One of the commenters asks, "Who was the most traumatized, those of us whose families could pass down direct information, or those hearing for the 1st time?"

    Greason: "It was a PWI evening class, almost all students hearing for the first time. Students with personal knowledge often feel affirmed/liberated." I laughed my ass off. The topic's not funny, but the gulf between most white people's understanding of how this country/reality works, versus mine, has been absurdly ginormous. (Cue Phil Ochs's Love Me, I'm A Liberal.) Of course lately with more white people the gulf is shrinking, somewhat. Keep up the good work teaching your fellow white people, y'all!
    posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 9:40 AM on August 14 [27 favorites]


    I don't know, I feel like it's at least not entirely inappropriate to start of a discussion of white supremacy in Charlottesville by appropriately acknowledging that the person you're talking to about it is a black man with a doctorate. Like, I think it's obnoxious for middle-class white people to stand on ceremony about that, but right now, right there? I feel like it's a distinction that matters. He's giving them an out by saying it's a matter of personal pride, but they shouldn't in a million years have needed to be corrected. Not even if it was just yesterday.
    posted by Sequence at 9:42 AM on August 14 [11 favorites]


    misskaz: WaPo list of 18 states that have introduced or voted on legislation to curb mass protests in what civil liberties experts are calling “an attack on protest rights throughout the states.” Many of which ease penalties on drivers who hit protestors or increase penalties for protestors in roadways.

    A quick reminder: "jaywalking" means walking in the street like a country rube, and the term was invented to shame people and clear the streets for cars. Before cars, people walked in the streets, and the car was considered a killing machine when it was first introduced to streets. In fact, there are some places that people may walk on the interstates in the U.S. in the present day.
    posted by filthy light thief at 9:43 AM on August 14 [25 favorites]




    Trump's going to try to talk about Charlottesville again.

    Trump: IT WAS LOCKER ROOM TALK!
    Off-screen: Sir, they don't have the tape yet.
    Trump: ...is what I would say if a video showed me dressed in Nazi-themed bondage gear, doing the Piss Heil during a screening of "Birth of a Nation," which will never happen, and if it does it's fake news.
    Reporter #1: Mr. President, what exactly is a Piss Heil?
    Trump: Thank you for asking, and let me just say that I want to thank everyone for my incredible electoral college victory. *wanders off*
    posted by Behemoth at 9:50 AM on August 14 [7 favorites]


    @mattdpearce: On the same day as Charlottesville, a Three-Percenter drove a dummy truck bomb into Oklahoma City and tried to detonate it with his phone

    How come everytime these guys try this shit and someone shows up like, "yes I can totally hook you up with some really wicked explosives dude just come over to my cool underground bomb shop. Oh, you can't pay? Here just take it on layaway I know you're good for it, dude", they are never clued in that friendly neighborhood plastic explosives supplier is an FBI agent?
    posted by dis_integration at 9:51 AM on August 14 [18 favorites]


    Father Denounces Son Identified As Participant In White Supremacist Rally

    From the link above - the father gets fierce.
    “We have been silent up until now, but now we see that this was a mistake. It was the silence of good people that allowed the Nazis to flourish the first time around, and it is the silence of good people that is allowing them to flourish now,” he wrote. “Peter Tefft, my son, is not welcome at our family gatherings any longer.”
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:51 AM on August 14 [71 favorites]


    And fiercer:
    “He once joked, ‘The thing about us fascists is, it’s not that we don’t believe in freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want. We’ll just throw you in an oven,'” Pearce Tefft said. “Peter, you will have to shovel our bodies into the oven, too.”
    posted by clawsoon at 9:53 AM on August 14 [63 favorites]


    My greatest concern is that the Internet forgets and we're all going to forget all the people directly adjacent to these Nazi scumbags. Heller will be remembered, but what about the men and women in the same photo shoot? No one will remember that they liked him enough to hang around with him, and almost certainly sympatico with his beliefs.
    posted by Yowser at 9:53 AM on August 14


    I was listening to the Pod Save the People bonus edition on the way to work this morning - was a little annoyed at Terry McAuliffe continuing to talk about how (paraphrased) "aside from the car ramming terrorist attack, the police had done a great job because no one had gone to the hospital and there had been no property damage". I had to stop listening shortly afterwards so I don't know if Deray calls him out for ignoring Deandre Harris, but ...
    posted by jferg at 9:53 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]


    My greatest concern is that the Internet forgets and we're all going to forget all the people directly adjacent to these Nazi scumbags. Heller will be remembered, but what about the men and women in the same photo shoot? No one will remember that they liked him enough to hang around with him, and almost certainly sympatico with his beliefs.

    That's where other people come in to call them out, really publically.

    Especially if they're politicians, and especially if they're up for re-election.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:55 AM on August 14 [3 favorites]


    I took one for the team and watched the beginning of the live address, started off by saying he was really back in DC to start working on tax reform, blah blah, but wanted to address Charlottesville. He was obviously coached to "stick to the fuckin' script Donny" and his statements were more in line with what Sessions had said yesterday, but really no surprises.


    So yeah, not really fooling anybody.
    posted by jeremias at 10:04 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]




    Uh huh. Say anything about the ones who support him?
    posted by saturday_morning at 10:09 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    "And other hate groups" is where his racist supporters will jump in to say he's talking about BLM and antifa. He can't even do this without leaving the door wide open for that sort of shit.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:11 AM on August 14 [30 favorites]


    How come everytime these guys try this shit and someone shows up like, "yes I can totally hook you up with some really wicked explosives dude just come over to my cool underground bomb shop. Oh, you can't pay? Here just take it on layaway I know you're good for it, dude", they are never clued in that friendly neighborhood plastic explosives supplier is an FBI agent?

    the right does not have the long history of "the guy who wants you to do violence and always has money is a cop" lessons that the left does.
    posted by Pope Guilty at 10:12 AM on August 14 [22 favorites]


    Reporter #1: Mr. President, what exactly is a Piss Heil?


    Trump: Twenty bucks in town, but it's very poor quality, sad, Obama's fault, Crooked Hillary, there are no tapes, no tapes, but if there were they'd prove I'm right.
    Reporter #2: *mumbles* This guy could fuck up a six-word catchphrase.
    posted by delfin at 10:12 AM on August 14 [7 favorites]


    "We are equal under the law. And we are equal under the Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America."

    I like to imagine Trump saying those lines into a mirror, but then I imagine him adding on "but only if you can catch me, and even if they do, there's no court who would convict me."

    After all, he thinks he's on the right side of the law. Here's his full "I'll pay your legal fees" quote:

    “If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you?” Trump said, drawing cheers and laughter. “Seriously, OK? Just knock the hell — I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I promise. They won’t be so much, because the courts agree with us too — what’s going on in this country.”
    posted by filthy light thief at 10:13 AM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    Zachlipton's message upthread linking Adam Jentleson's thread is this playbook 100%

    Look for actions, not words
    posted by Yowser at 10:13 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]


    Sondheim brought this up in "Assassins:" why do so many politically-motivated assassins go by three names?

    Lee Harvey Oswald
    James Earl Ray
    John Wilkes Booth
    James Alex Fields
    posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:18 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]


    why do so many politically-motivated assassins go by three names?

    Simple -- to avoid confusion with the other Lee Oswalds, James Rays, John Booths, and Alex Fields, etc.
    posted by Gelatin at 10:21 AM on August 14 [17 favorites]


    They don't "go by" 3 names. The media does that. Is this new knowledge?
    posted by agregoli at 10:21 AM on August 14 [10 favorites]


    (and, so not to abuse the edit feature, they don't necessarily go by three names; they are identified by three names in the media for that purpose.)
    posted by Gelatin at 10:22 AM on August 14 [3 favorites]


    dances_with_sneetches: why do so many politically-motivated assassins go by three names?

    It seems to be a coincidence (Brian Palmer on Slate looked at this in 2011, focusing on assassins)
    posted by filthy light thief at 10:22 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    Sessions and the rest of the GOP know that many of the white people who are comfortable with the effects of covert systemic (and acute!) racism get really uncomfortable with overt racism, because they are moral fucking cowards. $10 says there's polling that shows this. Another $10 says that's the only fucking reason they care.

    We need to make every single one of them fucking own it.
    posted by schadenfrau at 10:28 AM on August 14 [30 favorites]


    was a little annoyed at Terry McAuliffe continuing to talk about how (paraphrased) "aside from the car ramming terrorist attack, the police had done a great job because no one had gone to the hospital and there had been no property damage". I had to stop listening shortly afterwards so I don't know if Deray calls him out for ignoring Deandre Harris, but ...

    McAuliffe has been a better governor than I expected (though I was confident he'd be better than that shitstain he trounced) but his biggest disappointing moments have been cop related. He's stood in the way of police reform measures and there were nowhere near enough votes to override him.
    posted by phearlez at 10:28 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    why do so many politically-motivated assassins go by three names?

    I once made a bot that pairs (fictional) violent crimes with different wines. The rule for making a murderer's name is just 2 first names + 1 last name.
    posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:30 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    John Warnock Hinckley Jr. is one exception to the full name rule, for some reason. I had to look up what his middle name is. /derail
    posted by emelenjr at 10:30 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    What's Sirhan Sirhan's middle name?
    posted by Sys Rq at 10:35 AM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    @alexkotch
    If Stephen Miller wasn't a White House advisor, where would he have been over the weekend?

    ---

    @swin24
    Neo-nazis: purge the soil of filth, Hitler is not bad
    BLM: the state should kill fewer black people
    Idiot pundit: mah gawd theyre the same
    posted by chris24 at 10:36 AM on August 14 [76 favorites]


    "Bin-Laden determined to strike the US" but with White Nationalists:

    FBI and DHS warned Trump about Alt-Right terrorists just months before the attack in Charlottesville: report
    In a May intelligence bulletin published by Foreign Policy magazine on Monday, DHS and the FBI pointed out that attacks by white supremacists on U.S. soil far outnumbered every other type of terrorist threat.

    The agencies concluded that attacks by white supremacists “likely will continue to pose a threat of lethal violence over the next year.”
    Direct link to report on Scribd.
    posted by Room 641-A at 10:37 AM on August 14 [57 favorites]


    FBI and DHS warned Trump about Alt-Right terrorists just months before the attack in Charlottesville: report; "In a May intelligence bulletin..."

    And in June, Trump defunded the Countering Violence Extremism program that focused on white terrorist groups. Hmmm...
    posted by chris24 at 10:39 AM on August 14 [46 favorites]


    So hey, great news! According to Reuters, the Daily Stormer really has left GoDaddy! They're now registered with some place in California. (Twitter link, breaking news)
    posted by maudlin at 10:40 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    FBI and DHS warned Trump about Alt-Right terrorists just months before the attack in Charlottesville: report

    something something something determined to strike in the U.S.
    posted by entropicamericana at 10:40 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    Helpful reminder: the ACLU has a free app called Mobile Justice which will take videos you shoot and send them directly to the ACLU,even if the data or phone are "lost."

    Personally I would avoid this app for recording video because the ACLU makes no promises about what cases they'll take and there was is provision for getting the video from them if your recording is damaged/deleted/lost. So if the whole point is to have a capture that you can get to if the cops or nazis snatch your phone then this very likely won't help you; there's no disclosure about how long they retain the videos either, which troubles me somewhat.

    Personally I'd be more inclined to go with something like periscope so I'd have access to my own stuff and so I could have friends who are sitting it out actually monitoring.

    The biggest problem with any of these apps for us iPhone users is that - unless something changed in the upcoming iOS 11, which I think I would have heard about - you can't run them and record with a locked phone. So while you're recording you're vulnerable to having someone snatch your phone while it's unlocked and vulnerable. So if you're at all concerned about the rest of the integrity of your stuff your best choice may simply be to record using the built-in camera app which can run while the phone is locked so miscreants can't get into the rest of your info.
    posted by phearlez at 10:41 AM on August 14 [10 favorites]




    FBI and DHS warned Trump about Alt-Right terrorists just months before the attack in Charlottesville: report; "In a May intelligence bulletin..."

    And in June, Trump defunded the Countering Violence Extremism program that focused on white terrorist groups. Hmmm...


    I am not kidding when I say it could also be because they insisted on presenting him program reports with more than one page/no pictures/no use of his name.
    posted by phearlez at 10:43 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    Thank goodness the President has finally condemned white supremacy in all its forms. Alright! On to the next news story...

    Fox News: “I am seriously considering a pardon for Sheriff Arpaio,” the president said Sunday, during a conversation with Fox News at his club in Bedminster, N.J. “He has done a lot in the fight against illegal immigration. He’s a great American patriot and I hate to see what has happened to him.”

    ...

    This President's greatest achievement is that after all this time he still maintains the ability to leave me dumbfounded.
    posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:49 AM on August 14 [42 favorites]


    So now that we know about the report on the rise of white supremacy, it's official. Charlottesville is Dumb 9/11
    posted by Yowser at 10:52 AM on August 14 [7 favorites]


    I am not kidding when I say it could also be because they insisted on presenting him program reports with more than one page/no pictures/no use of his name.

    so basically a memo worded like this:

    PRESIDENT TRUMP, who is doing a great job by the way, might wish to be aware ... etc etc ...

    (picture of Trump attached, of course)
    posted by philip-random at 10:55 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    So now that we know about the report on the rise of white supremacy, it's official. Charlottesville is Dumb 9/11

    i bet we'll see a call for sending these dangerous white people to internment camps by fox news in a jif, and no doubt we'll have random white people rendered to random black sites.
    posted by anem0ne at 10:57 AM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    i bet we'll see a call for sending these dangerous white people to internment camps by fox news in a jif, and no doubt we'll have random white people rendered to random black sites.

    "TwitterNacht"?
    posted by ZeusHumms at 11:01 AM on August 14 [3 favorites]


    Daily Beast, Brian Patrick Byrne, GoDaddy Deleted Racism Ban After It Was Caught Providing Service to Nazi Site
    Domain registrar GoDaddy removed language from its website that said it prohibited “morally offensive activity” after a Daily Beast report highlighted the company’s policy—while continuing to provide services to neo-Nazi website The Daily Stormer.

    The Daily Beast reported in July that GoDaddy was providing neo-Nazi hub The Daily Stormer with a service designed to stop stalkers and harassers, despite writing in bold text on its website, “don't even think about [emphasis theirs] using our service to ... engage in morally offensive activity.”

    However, after the original story was published on July 6, GoDaddy removed the bolded text from the homepage of Domains By Proxy. The Daily Beast has also discovered that GoDaddy removed language from its service’s user agreement that warned customers not to “defame, embarrass, harm, abuse, threaten, or harass third parties,” or do anything “racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable.”
    In other words, GoDaddy's response to being informed in July that they were responsible for the domain was to remove this language from their terms, only to pop up after Charlottesville to be all "we're doing the right thing."
    posted by zachlipton at 11:01 AM on August 14 [61 favorites]


    aside from the car ramming terrorist attack, the police had done a great job because no one had gone to the hospital and there had been no property damage"

    Apart from the stuff with the airplanes, September 11th 2001 was a fairly uneventful day.
    posted by Grangousier at 11:02 AM on August 14 [10 favorites]


    "TwitterNacht"?

    The ever eloquent Charles Pierce has called Friday night "the Citronella Putsch."
    posted by Sophie1 at 11:02 AM on August 14 [29 favorites]




    Google cancels domain registration for Daily Stormer

    That was fast, maybe an hour or two from beginning to end.
    posted by ZeusHumms at 11:29 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]



    Google cancels domain registration for Daily Stormer


    nelsonhaha.gif
    posted by azuresunday at 11:29 AM on August 14 [15 favorites]


    nelsonhaha.gif

    My first reaction also.
    posted by Sophie1 at 11:32 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    Alan Taylor/The Atlantic (In Focus photoblog): Vigils, Marches, and Memorials After Charlottesville. Twenty two photos. If you haven't seen the column before, all the pictures are on the same page.
    posted by ZeusHumms at 11:35 AM on August 14 [3 favorites]


    Google cancels domain registration for Daily Stormer

    First Damore, now this? I hope the Nazi fucks who use Google right now start boycotting all of their services. Just imagine, a YouTube without Nazis...
    posted by anem0ne at 11:35 AM on August 14 [28 favorites]


    Google cancels domain registration for Daily Stormer

    Make the fuckers type in an IP address.
    posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:35 AM on August 14 [11 favorites]


    14.88.80.085
    posted by Behemoth at 11:38 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    127.0.0.1
    posted by clawsoon at 11:39 AM on August 14 [21 favorites]


    "aside from the car ramming terrorist attack, the police had done a great job because no one had gone to the hospital and there had been no property damage"

    I guess Deandre Harris got his head wounds stapled closed on the street?

    I feel like McAuliffe's quote was supposed to be the media line. The white nationalists weren't wearing scary hoods. They didn't burn or smash anything, so the media couldn't swarm over photos of that greatest of all evils: property damage. Yes, the white nationalists would beat the shit out of some counter-protestors (and innocent people), but that can always be blamed on "both sides" and plus they nazis think they look cool doing it. They welcome those pictures being shared because conservatives hate protestors.

    The center would buy it. They will look at white guys with sticks beating black guys and tsk about free speech and civility and both sides. And also, the center will buy "lone wolf" white terrorists killing people over and over. Any number of those can be balanced against James Hodgkinson, or nothing at all.

    If the events were more separate, it would have worked. The ratchet would have been tightened. And people still did try to trot out those lines about extremism on all sides.

    But I think both at the same time was too much, too undeniable that the terrorist act was a nazi act, and Heather Heyer is the kind of victim the center can't ignore. Too many people in the center are waking up to the idea that nazis are real, dangerous, organized.

    (And at the same time, here is the right wing claiming the nazis as guys on their side.)

    Anyway that is how I'm comforting myself, that the driver of this car actually fucked it all up for them, he did the one fucking thing they weren't supposed to do, and set the cause of nazi normalization back years, worse than they were before Trump was elected.
    posted by fleacircus at 11:41 AM on August 14 [23 favorites]


    I made the mistake of visiting the daily stormer and I can't believe anybody over the age of 12 can support nazism and take themselves seriously.

    Like I know racism exists regardless of Hitler's existence, but he gave it a (constipated) face and organized it into something that can be mistaken for legitimacy by all these racist motherfuckers.

    Fucking Hitler and his whiny, pathetic inferiority complex fueled tantrums presenting plain idiots with an opportunity to feel edgy and special. 80 years and we still have to hear this toxic, entitled, nonsensical, hateful bullshit.

    Hitler's opinions and pronouncements were at best trite and boring as fuck, at worst, head-in-esophagus murderous ranting. But these man babies have quotations of him posted on pictures of his pasty face as if he had been some sort of intellectual luminary.

    It just pisses me off that all these white boys think they are part of some special club, when the whole world knows their dear leader was a fucking loser whose putrid page in history exists just to remind us of the depths to which people can sink to feed their self-delusion.
    posted by Tarumba at 11:42 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]


    Make the fuckers type in an IP address.


    Make it IPV6.
    posted by Devonian at 11:45 AM on August 14 [27 favorites]


    @BryanCranston
    It felt like @realDonaldTrump read the TelePrompTer message condemning hate groups like a hostage forced to read a statement by his captors.

    ---

    @jpodhoretz
    Usually not a meme guy but this is clever.

    VANILLA ISIS [pic]
    posted by chris24 at 11:45 AM on August 14 [37 favorites]


    Make it IPV6.

    If the white race has superior intellect this should be no barrier to entry
    posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:51 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    We must secure a 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 for white children
    posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:52 AM on August 14 [7 favorites]


    White People, Ain’t Nothing Funny About White Supremacy, so Now Ain’t the Time for Jokes About It by Natalie Degraffinried in Very Smart Brothas.
    I wish I were so bored with my own unshakable safety that I could focus on the most mundane details of wildly violent shit that doesn’t even affect me. I wish I could giggle and gawk on some keeping-up-with-the-Joneses, “Did you see what Rebecca wore to the country club?”-type shit. I wish making fun of white supremacists took down their threat level for me mentally. . .

    This is the epitome of getting too fucking comfortable—of so deeply believing that you’re the “right” type of white person that you can just shrug and laugh and make a half-assed joke with our deaths looming in the foreground. This posturing is just as useless as your overtures at allyship always are. I know we often point out your silence as an issue, but I urge you not to use snark as a substitute—I suggest this for most situations, but especially when there are white supremacists marching with fucking torches.
    posted by threeturtles at 12:03 PM on August 14 [41 favorites]


    It just pisses me off that all these white boys think they are part of some special club, when the whole world knows their dear leader was a fucking loser whose putrid page in history exists just to remind us of the depths to which people can sink to feed their self-delusion.

    There was "white lives matter" protest out in front a mosque in Houston in 2016, and lots of local liberal and leftie groups came out to outnumber them in counter protest. This poster depicting Hitler killing himself was displayed across from them.

    That was a peaceful event (which I rode a bike to from way across town to attend because it seemed appropriate), though the cops parked vans on either side of the street (to fill with people they might arrest) and had tons of personnel nearby. If those fuckers come out again I fear it might not be such a jovial atmosphere.
    posted by Burhanistan at 12:03 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    According to screenshots, the Daily Sturmer is planning to send Nazis to the funeral of Heather Heyer.

    This needs to be signal boosted so it can be prevented.
    posted by Sophie1 at 12:05 PM on August 14 [34 favorites]


    Godwin says:

    By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you.
    posted by infini at 12:10 PM on August 14 [9 favorites]


    Is Twitter going to act now?
    posted by Room 641-A at 12:10 PM on August 14 [5 favorites]




    Is Twitter going to act now?

    It is to laugh.

    How many stores close down on Black Friday? This is big business for Twitter!
    posted by wenestvedt at 12:16 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    AP: Transcripts: Mother of man accused of driving car into Charlottesville crowd called 911 repeatedly; said he beat her

    [That's the story in its entirety so far]

    Once again, our failure to take domestic violence seriously is a factor in yet another killing.
    posted by zachlipton at 12:24 PM on August 14 [92 favorites]


    I made the mistake of visiting the daily stormer and I can't believe anybody over the age of 12 can support nazism and take themselves seriously.

    They are mostly adults who take themselves perfectly seriously, and it's a mistake not to take them seriously too. They don't have a disease or a completely inexplicable and comically incoherent worldview. They're not funny or pathetic or irrelevant or powerless. The hatred that motivates their worldview is only a more clearly articulated version of the same thing we are seeing surging up in so many corners of the world now, from homophobes in Russia to gau rakshaks in India to the EDL in Britain. There's no advantage to treating it as a bizarre niche phenomenon, some esoteric culture like furries or worshippers of Severus Snape or whoever. These are just the same old enemies of human rights and liberalism that have been around, sometimes dominant and sometimes defensive, since the idea of universal human rights first got off the ground.

    Yes, the Daily Stormer or Stormfront version is shocking in its crudity and bluntness. But the thing behind all that crudity is really widespread and commonplace and dangerous, even its politer forms. From that perspective, I think some of the "oh my God, literal Nazis!" horror is kind of a mixed blessing. Yes, it's shocking and a good wake up call. But it's not actually all that different from the slow build of dog whistles and casual racism over the dinner table that's been developing for years, and it's not helpful to obscure that connection. It was always going to be literal Nazis at the logical end point of all this.
    posted by Aravis76 at 12:25 PM on August 14 [48 favorites]


    I don't even... I'm so very pissed that I even unfollowed the person who shared this
    posted by infini at 12:35 PM on August 14


    According to screenshots, the Daily Sturmer is planning to send Nazis to the funeral of Heather Heyer.

    Boosted on my facebook, and I contacted her employer to alert them (assuming that people there would know detalis about the arrangements and would know who to contact).
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:36 PM on August 14 [11 favorites]


    fyi Laura Loomer works for Rebel Media (Canada's own coughnotnazidontsuemeezracough organization. Weev and her probably coordinated together and think it's REALLY FUNNY to shit disturb.

    (not saying no Nazis will show up. just... something to keep in mind)
    posted by Yowser at 12:45 PM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    The hatred that motivates their worldview is only a more clearly articulated version of the same thing we are seeing surging up in so many corners of the world now

    People also ought to drop the comforting platitude that hate is "really" fear (or ignorance, or what-have-you), which I've never seen justified by anything but faith in the notion that human beings are all good, and that anything evil about them results from some kind of mistake.
    posted by thelonius at 12:50 PM on August 14 [12 favorites]


    I wonder if Trump says "Heil me" when he enters a room.

    (borrowed from To Be Or Not To Be)
    posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:50 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    The Post and Courier: Ridgeville man out of a job following photo next to Charlottesville murder suspect
    His political views, as listed on his Facebook page, simply lists: "Zenophobe, Narcissist, Bigot, Misogynist, Racist, Nazi, Ignorant, Right-Winger, Anti-Semite, Islamophobe, Fascist, Dumbass."

    You don't say.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:51 PM on August 14 [39 favorites]




    Dude's afraid of philosophical paradoxes?
    posted by Faint of Butt at 12:55 PM on August 14 [19 favorites]


    He's scared of one-hand clappings.
    posted by sukeban at 12:56 PM on August 14 [5 favorites]




    White People, Ain’t Nothing Funny About White Supremacy, so Now Ain’t the Time for Jokes About It

    nothing wrong with laughing at the devil -- just don't make that the extent of your actions.
    posted by philip-random at 1:00 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    Also, regarding the Nazi asshole in the 82nd Airborne cap noted in buntix's post: it may not be an ID or a verification, but the 82nd hasn't forgotten what side it's on.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:02 PM on August 14 [20 favorites]


    Zenophobe

    He's afraid his values will take forever to reach ours.
    posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:03 PM on August 14 [55 favorites]


    His political views, as listed on his Facebook page, simply lists: "Zenophobe, Narcissist, Bigot, Misogynist, Racist, Nazi, Ignorant, Right-Winger, Anti-Semite, Islamophobe, Fascist, Dumbass."

    So, "deplorable" for short?
    posted by spitbull at 1:07 PM on August 14 [9 favorites]


    So Columbus is smack dab in the middle of Ohio, about 400 miles from Charlottesville. I'm sure some people were much closer, but reports are that a lot of people drove down from the midwest, so I'm just picking a recognizable, not so far away part of the midwest.

    That's about 13 gallons of gas at 30mpg, which is pretty generous - these dudes tend to be the SUV/Big engine type. Gas is about $2/gallon right now in Ohio, so you're looking at $26 each way being generous, not counting any possible tolls, and with a six-hour drive on either end. Let's call it $30 each way for a couple truck stop coffees.

    A tiki torch is about $4 from home depot. Hell, say you already had the torch.

    Say you pack all your meals, and eat what you were gonna eat anyway, sleep in the truck, and don't spend any other money.

    That's still $60, and at least twelve good waking hours, that a whole bunch of men spent trying to tell the citizens of another state what they can and can't do with their statues. That's nearly a full day's pay at Ohio minimum wage.

    And not only were they able to do that with their time, and spent the money to do it, but they didn't expect any consequences for it, and whined when people pushed back.

    What do you do with this type of asshole? Who would choose to do this with their finite time on earth? $60 and twelve hours could fix someone's roof, or take some kids to the state fair, or treat the in-laws to Pizza Hut. Hell, if you're not feeling generous it's 120 cans of Pabst that you could drink sadly while you whine about the white man's oppression on the internet.

    What do you do with these people?
    posted by aspersioncast at 1:08 PM on August 14 [39 favorites]


    I'm not surprised at that tweet from the 82nd. Institutional memory is a thing and they have no truck with Nazis.
    posted by Justinian at 1:10 PM on August 14 [10 favorites]


    What do you do with this type of asshole? Who would choose to do this with their finite time on earth? $60 and twelve hours could fix someone's roof, or take some kids to the state fair, or treat the in-laws to Pizza Hut. Hell, if you're not feeling generous it's 120 cans of Pabst that you could drink sadly while you whine about the white man's oppression on the internet.

    What do you do with these people?


    Well, since they're terrorists, send them to black sites and use advanced interrogation techniques? I kid, I kid, they're white...
    posted by anem0ne at 1:11 PM on August 14 [5 favorites]


    Great exchange spotted on Twitter:

    "If you keep calling people Nazis for months on end, what did you think was going to happen?"

    "If they weren't Nazis, nothing. Feminists have been called 'Nazis' for for decades and haven't waved a swastika flag yet."
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:16 PM on August 14 [217 favorites]


    "If you keep calling people Nazis for months on end, what did you think was going to happen?"

    One of the questions I've been asked is, "Who decides who is a Nazi", to which my honest reply can only be, "If they're carrying a NAZI FLAG as they march, they're a Nazi..."
    posted by mikelieman at 1:18 PM on August 14 [57 favorites]


    If the jack boots fit...
    posted by Sophie1 at 1:22 PM on August 14 [18 favorites]


    "Who decides who is a Nazi"

    If only there were records of Nazi beliefs and that could compared to those of alt-right and fellow travelers! If it steps like a goose, it's probably a Nazi, as my gran used to say.
    posted by GenjiandProust at 1:23 PM on August 14 [26 favorites]


    Who decides who is a Nazi

    The Nazis?
    posted by aspersioncast at 1:29 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    I'm not surprised at that tweet from the 82nd. Institutional memory is a thing and they have no truck with Nazis.

    Of course not -- why use a truck when you've got planes & parachutes?
    posted by tivalasvegas at 1:29 PM on August 14 [4 favorites]



    "Who decides who is a Nazi"


    are they carrying a tiki torch?
    posted by philip-random at 1:30 PM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    Gatekeeping is crummy behavior. Even hate groups don't deserve that shit. If a dude aspires to be a Nazi, I don't need Hitler's ghost to turn up and verify the dude is a Nazi. I'm more than willing to grant him that insult in keeping with his behavior.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:32 PM on August 14 [35 favorites]


    Libby Anne of Patheos discusses White Supremacists and Parents in Denial
    Based on both news reports and pictures of the event, this weekend’s “Unite the Right” rally was made up almost entirely of white men in their 20s and 30s. Every one of these young men has parents. Do they know about their sons’ views? Do they approve of them? Do they feign ignorance? Do they overlook warning signs and convince themselves, like Bloom, that their sons are good people who wouldn’t hurt a fly? [...]

    When a young white man who hears his parents praising Trump is approached by a white supremacist group with indistinguishable rhetoric, is he wrong to conclude that such an association would be met with approval, or at least understanding? The social pressure not to join a white supremacist group weakens and frays. And then, when that same young man spouts white supremacist rhetoric at Thanksgiving or the Fourth of July, are his parents to be blamed for assuming it’s “something to do with Trump”?

    Trump has fundamentally broken our nation’s de facto system for preventing overtly white supremacist organizations from growing beyond the fringe. Mothers like Bloom, who convince themselves that their sons’ white supremacist activities are “something to do with Trump” and thus neither white supremacist nor anything to worry about, are evidence of this reality.
    The lengths white people will go to ignore the fact that we and/or our family members propagate white supremacy is a major problem. I have seen so many white family members excuse racist comments in the interest of not having to confront complicity, while shutting down push back to protect the space as safe for subtle white supremacy.

    We, white people, have to impose negative consequences on each other for expressions and propagation of white supremacy, so people of color don't have to live in fear and can participate in society equally without experiencing cruelty and bigotry from white people. Our government must also explore options and make reparations for slavery.
    posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:33 PM on August 14 [64 favorites]


    Based on both news reports and pictures of the event, this weekend’s “Unite the Right” rally was made up almost entirely of white men in their 20s and 30s. Every one of these young men has parents. Do they know about their sons’ views? Do they approve of them? Do they feign ignorance? Do they overlook warning signs and convince themselves, like Bloom, that their sons are good people who wouldn’t hurt a fly?

    ....Shit, most of the guys at that parade likely got their views from their parents.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:36 PM on August 14 [12 favorites]


    The lengths white people will go to ignore the fact that we and/or our family members propagate white supremacy is a major problem.

    so are the lengths people will go to find a reason why a grown, mentally competent adult man's actions, beliefs, and crimes must be his mommy's fault. how can anybody possibly blame a 25-year-old's fascism on his parents, but not blame his parents' fascism -- supposing they have any -- on their parents? What is the age at which this becomes obscene and ridiculous?

    What is the age at which a white man becomes responsible?

    I say 18 to 20, but I'm not in charge.
    posted by queenofbithynia at 1:43 PM on August 14 [24 favorites]


    a white man?

    haha
    hahaaha

    never, apparently
    posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 1:44 PM on August 14 [13 favorites]


    Every one of these young men has parents. Do they know about their sons’ views? Do they approve of them? Do they feign ignorance? Do they overlook warning signs and convince themselves, like Bloom, that their sons are good people who wouldn’t hurt a fly?

    Parents can be in serious denial about all kinds of things related to their children.
    posted by Room 641-A at 1:46 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    Yeah, pretty sure (we) white males go directly from "just having a little youthful fun" to "old and senile".
    posted by jferg at 1:47 PM on August 14 [15 favorites]


    If it quacks like a milkshake duck....
    posted by emjaybee at 1:48 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    A milkshake duck situation requires that people admire the duck initially.
    posted by Artw at 1:58 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    Baked Alaska probably pepper sprayed himself. None of his entourage got hit and despite them all having cameras no one recorded it happening.
    posted by PenDevil at 2:01 PM on August 14 [22 favorites]


    also the Tefft family saga is linked on this same damn page! you can read all about how young white men are tender reeds that blow this way and that at the least breath of their families' expectations, except not. that fucker was disowned in stronger terms by his dad than I've ever heard anyone denounce their parents, which is infinitely easier to do and easier to be praised for. did it fix him? it did not. because once they reach the age of majority, Nazis do as they please.

    and the other one, the murderer with the weak worthless mother, maybe she does deserve some of the blame for not getting up out of her wheelchair and putting her son in his place one of the times he was beating her for talking back to him. fair enough. meanwhile, his history teacher says he loved Hitler just so much back in high school. loved him! worshiped him. what did this history teacher with free access to his developing murder mind do about this? oh, nothing. Does that make this his fault? well, "his," so no. Influence is a tricky thing.
    posted by queenofbithynia at 2:02 PM on August 14 [16 favorites]


    Parents can be in serious denial about all kinds of things related to their children.

    Then fuck those parents. They have more power than anyone else to recognize this shit and do something about it.

    I suspect that it's less "denial", and more "ignore it and hope nothing bad happens".
    posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:04 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    Baked Alaska probably pepper sprayed himself.

    and he still whined like a toddler - what a talent!
    posted by pyramid termite at 2:06 PM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    You're not the only one that thinks Baked Alaska sprayed himself.

    It's right out of the Milo and Lauren Southern playbooks. SWAT your own event. Hire someone to pour water on you and call it urine.
    posted by Yowser at 2:17 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    Hire someone to pour water on you and call it urine.

    I'd piss on him for free.
    posted by peeedro at 2:18 PM on August 14 [17 favorites]


    Charlottesville has some very odd historical resonances.

    A little over 90 years ago, Donald Trump's father was arrested in New York after fascist and KKK sponsored demonstrations turned violent in the Bronx and Queens:
    On Memorial Day 1927, brawls erupted in New York led by sympathizers of the Italian fascist movement and the Ku Klux Klan. In the fascist brawl, which took place in the Bronx, two Italian men were killed by anti-fascists. In Queens, 1,000 white-robed Klansmen marched through the Jamaica neighborhood, eventually spurring an all-out brawl in which seven men were arrested.

    One of those arrested was Fred Trump of 175-24 Devonshire Rd. in Jamaica.

    It's not clear from the context what role Fred Trump played in the brawl. The news article simply notes that seven men were arrested in the "near-riot of the parade," all of whom were represented by the same lawyers. Update: A contemporaneous article from the Daily Star notes that Trump was detained "on a charge of refusing to disperse from a parade when ordered to do so."

    When news of the old report surfaced last year, Donald Trump vehemently denied his father's arrest. "He was never arrested. He has nothing to do with this. This never happened. This is nonsense and it never happened," he said to the Daily Mail. "This never happened. Never took place. He was never arrested, never convicted, never even charged. It's a completely false, ridiculous story. He was never there! It never happened. Never took place."
    posted by jamjam at 2:23 PM on August 14 [17 favorites]


    I'd piss on him for free.

    That's the President on Line 2 for you right now.
    posted by Quindar Beep at 2:24 PM on August 14 [11 favorites]


    I bet he'll still make bank on his Indiegogo.
    posted by Artw at 2:24 PM on August 14


    And you just know he'd never been pepper-sprayed before and was thinking 'how bad can it be, I bet I can take it grar grar' before finding out that he couldn't. So the hurty came as a nasty shock.
    posted by Devonian at 2:24 PM on August 14 [3 favorites]


    "Who decides who is a Nazi"

    These fuckers always think they're the smartest guys in the room solely because they're white, and that absolutely no one can see through their fantastical word sorcery. I've dealt with these asswipes since grade school, and I'm so tired of it.

    And I'm realizing today that I am traumatized by this weekend's events, where here we have a bunch of people openly insisting that treating my people like shit is their god-given right. Who think they can arrange their words in the "right" order, and no one who isn't "supposed" to know would be able to figure out their true intentions, because they're just so much goddamned smarter than everyone else. And the so-called president of my country's all, "A nod's as good as a wink, boys!" White people, angry that we're fighting back, who actually think we're supposed to take their shit and happily let them kill us! WHO THE FUCK ARE THEY KIDDING?!?

    It's too much like what I grew up with, both in my "home" with my authoritarian and violent guardian (there was a period where I was supposed to say "thank you" and hug her after whippings), and in the city I lived in, where white people were only one step above forcing us off the pavement if we crossed their paths, and where they still loathe their black residents to this day. I'm both scared and have 40+ years' worth of rage for people like Fields and Cvjetanovic; enough that if they were in my face, I'd rip these boys' throats out with my bare hands. But that would make me as bad as they are, even if I have actual reason to feel that way, instead of their PHONY outrage at their FAKE oppression.

    I'm just, AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRGGUHHHHHH! COME AT ME! I WISH A MUTHAFUCKA WOULD! And even if I did die, I would take 10 of them with me.

    /rant
    posted by droplet at 2:27 PM on August 14 [70 favorites]


    It's hard to believe that the guy whose big political break was accusing the first black president of being part of a global conspiracy to deny his true birthplace in Africa is a bit racist but here we are
    posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:27 PM on August 14 [85 favorites]


    But that would make me as bad as they are

    In the case of Fields, at least – you know, the guy who mowed his car through a street full of people and killed a woman – no, it really wouldn't.

    There comes a point where responding to violence with violence is not only justifiable, but necessary. We can debate exactly where that point lies, and when it's strategically wise to go there – but we cannot turn the other cheek forever.
    posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:32 PM on August 14 [11 favorites]


    gandhi turned the other cheek forever. hanh, too. i dunno the right answer, but armed antifa sure sounds like a bad idea. once trump declares an emergency, we're an order of magnitude deeper in the shit.
    posted by j_curiouser at 2:55 PM on August 14 [3 favorites]


    Also, could use some help framing something in a way designed to be productive, but maybe I just don't care? I don't know. I have gut feelings but no expertise to respond to stupid stuff like this. My stepfather is a borderline abusive nutcase who is posting a bunch of pro-confederacy stuff on Facebook, stuff by Judge Napolitano, Michael Black, and Donald Livingston. Maybe I should just cut him out like the cancer he is, but I still feel obligated to push back on such blatantly toxic bullshit. Any suggestions of counter reading or whatever? Not that it'll make any difference, they just don't care. He's not even from the South, his family wasn't even in this country when the war was fought! Why are people so stupid? I'm having a crisis of humanity over here.
    posted by cui bono at 2:57 PM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    Gandhi's non-violence was effective in India for a bunch of reasons, some to do with British media and British leftists and some to do with the threat to the British government from less peaceable Indian freedom fighters. His proposed strategy for dealing with Hitler - don't resist, turn the other cheek - would have been a terrible idea and fortunately no one in power took it seriously. Non-violence is the ideal solution, when it can work, but it doesn't always work.
    posted by Aravis76 at 2:59 PM on August 14 [36 favorites]


    My opposition to Nazi-punching is not a direct moral opposition, because Nazis deserve to be punched. Instead it is a pragmatic opposition that sees the benefits of such violence at this time as minimal compared to the potentially huge disadvantages to the anti-Nazi cause. The right-wing is based on the myth of unfair white victimhood, primarily white male victimhood. I want to deny the right-wing any martyrs who could grow their movement and their respectability. I want Nazis to be exposed based on their own moral turpitude, belittled, and politically sidelined.

    Right-wing ideology is violent at its core, and it is obvious that right-wing individuals have a far greater propensity for violence against non-threatening people. The murderous Nazi who drove his car into pedestrians has undermined his ideological cause. But it is not impossible that the next murderous person will be more like the shooter at the Congressional baseball match; a hanger-on to a left-wing cause who convinces himself that murder is justified in the current circumstances. Imagine how different the national debate would be were that the case in Charlottesville. I don't want to see that happen. While I sympathize with the desire to take revenge on evil men, I take a pragmatic opposition to counterproductive violence and any extreme rhetoric liable to encourage it. If that pragmatic calculus someday changes, we will be close to civil war. For today, I have hope that Trumpism can best be defeated through non-violent means.
    posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:06 PM on August 14 [14 favorites]


    Texas A&M has cancelled the white supremacist rally scheduled for 9/11 on campus.

    "You don't get to bring your hate here" is a message I"m happy to see more colleges take up.
    posted by emjaybee at 3:08 PM on August 14 [77 favorites]


    We didn't stand up as a nation to voraciously support POC when they were raising the alarm in watts, in 1992, in ferguson, after a black man was dragged in jasper Texas nor after Tamir Rice was murdered nor after how many other incidents am I omitting. If not fucking now, when? How far down this road do we wanna go before believe that we are installing white supremacist fascism in this country. PEOPLE ARE WAVING FUCKING NAZI FLAGS and we're still treating this like a debate.

    Fascism comes silently in the night and people like me will just vanish. Straight white people will continue to have their jobs and continue to equivocate and debate how it can't really be that bad. It's that bad people. It's that bad.
    posted by Annika Cicada at 3:09 PM on August 14 [118 favorites]


    Out of curiosity, could Trump be sued by the family of Heather Heyer for wrongful death or something similar, given that he has been inciting violence against protesters and the left in general (including saying he would pay legal bills for people)?

    Also, could a state that passed one of those it's-okay-for-drivers-to hit-protesters bills also be sued if a driver then does just that and kills someone?
    posted by triggerfinger at 3:47 PM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    Hey kids! Want to hold a Nazi rally, but too inept to make your own torches? Try the new Swastikitm. It's the alt-light for the alt-right!
    posted by uosuaq at 3:47 PM on August 14 [20 favorites]


    Bryan Cranston isn't the only one who thought it was insincere.

    @SchreckReports (Politico)
    Richard Spencer calls Trumps statement today "nonsense" and "silliness" "I just don't take him seriously...it sounded so hollow"

    @hunterw (Yahoo News)
    Daily Stormer says Trump's statement was forced by the "whining Jew media" and Trump "only disavowed us at the point of a Jewish weapon."
    posted by chris24 at 3:48 PM on August 14 [13 favorites]


    Hire someone to pour water on you and call it urine.

    I'd piss on him for free.
    posted by peeedro at 5:18 PM on August 14 [8 favorites +] [!]


    Two answers:

    (a) Eponysterical.
    (b) So would I, unless he was on fire.
    posted by CommonSense at 3:54 PM on August 14 [12 favorites]


    Out of curiosity, could Trump be sued by the family of Heather Heyer for wrongful death or something similar, given that he has been inciting violence against protesters and the left in general (including saying he would pay legal bills for people)?

    The President is immune from federal civil lawsuits.
    posted by Justinian at 3:54 PM on August 14


    Daily Stormer says Trump's statement was forced by the "whining Jew media" and Trump "only disavowed us at the point of a Jewish weapon."
    I wouldn't use the same words, but I don't disagree that the statement was forced and that he doesn't actually disavow Nazism. I cannot believe I agree with them, but this is the world now I guess.
    posted by jeather at 3:57 PM on August 14 [7 favorites]


    I think it's up to us to just label it as terrorism here and on social media, and to call Congressional delegations to encourage them to label the car ramming as terrorism, and to identify the 'alt-right' as white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and terrorists. In times of crisis and change, we look to leaders, but President Pants-On-Fire is not providing leadership. I consider this to be the the moment it became undeniably clear that his presidency has failed. His comments today did not change my mind.
    posted by theora55 at 3:58 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    The President is immune from federal civil lawsuits.

    For Official acts. His incitement to riot predates his election, so.... I'd love to read the US Supreme Court's ruling...
    posted by mikelieman at 4:00 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    That would get tossed so fast your head would spin. An incitement to riot from a year ago which bore fruit now? Nah.
    posted by Justinian at 4:02 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    >forced by the "whining Jew media" and Trump "only disavowed us at the point of a Jewish weapon."

    So the Jew media is simultaneously whining and threatening? How's that work? And how'd they 'force' him to do it? I thought he was a Straight Shooter Who Speaks His Mind No Matter The Consequences? Are they saying that the President is a... a... (lowers voice to whisper) a cuck?
    posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:04 PM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    Not to diminish Heather Heyer's murder in any way but I'm not seeing very much about other people violently attacked by the Nazi bastards. I've seen the photos of the black man being beaten and the older white woman (church elder?) with a gash in her forehead. Has there been any attempt to publicize how violent the Nazis were when they scattered into groups after their tiki procession?

    The only other story I heard was secondhand. A person on twitter saying an antifa told her that Nazis had doused a woman in a wheelchair with kerosene and had been trying to light her on fire when the antifa swarmed in and hustled her out of danger. Could be tall tales but if it is true, how horrific and terrifying.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:07 PM on August 14 [8 favorites]


    Kelly Hayes:
    From an actual resident of Charlottesville:

    "There seems to be a perception from people outside of Charlottesville that what is going on here is two opposing groups coming to town and fighting some ideological battle that has gotten messy. That is not what is happening here. What is happening here is that several hate groups from the extreme right have come together under the "unite the right" banner here in our town and basically started acting as terrorists. This may seem like an exaggeration but it's not.

    A church service was held over because they had surrounded the building and police had to disperse them. People had to be escorted to their cars. My friend was there with her daughter. Everywhere they meet, businesses close. We had drive by shootings yesterday from a van marked kkk.

    A car plowed into a huge group of people. I'm sure you saw that on the newsfeeds. What you probably didn't see is that some of those people were on their way back from helping to repel a white supremacist march to predominately black housing development a few blocks away where they were attempting home invasions. I guess they were unfamiliar with the neighborhood. The residents repelled that one before antifa got there but there is some video of the alt-right folks getting run off on the daily progress twitter feed, if you're interested.

    So, basically, what I'd like you to understand is, this IS NOT two side egging eachother on to unavoidable violence for more attention. This is one side of terrorists declaring that they can and will hold a town hostage (they've been saying it for over a month now, actually) and the town responding to that threat. The car that killed and injured people yesterday? Ohio tags. The medic tents (which treated both sides... turns out the alt right erst didn’t bring any medics. Guess they planned on doing all the injuring), water bottles, snacks, shade tents (all volunteer, donations, none shut down by police... all manned by that radical left you keep hearing about) yeah, we all live here. I saw a lot of people I knew yesterday, none of them were speaking for unite the right. None of them were escalating violence, most of them were offering some kind of aid and defending."
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:10 PM on August 14 [148 favorites]


    Sing Or Swim: So the Jew media is simultaneously whining and threatening? How's that work?

    There's a great quote upthread on this. "Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak..."
    posted by clawsoon at 4:11 PM on August 14 [17 favorites]


    Of course now the fuckin' ACLU (which, I remind you, partnered with Y Combinator, which has someone on their board who hates women and democracy) will defend these assholes, won't they?
    posted by Yowser at 4:18 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    Interview: How Corey Long Fought White Supremacy With Fire:
    “I went out to voice my opinion. To have my freedom of speech. Just like the racist Nazis who took over my town,” Long said in an interview with The Root.

    But what started out as a peaceful protest eventually turned violent. And Long says the cops stood around and did nothing.

    “At first it was peaceful protest,” Long said softly as he spoke. “Until someone pointed a gun at my head. Then the same person pointed it at my foot and shot the ground.”

    Long said the only weapon he had was a can of spray paint that a white supremacist threw at him earlier, so he took a lighter to the spray paint and turned it into a flame thrower. And a photographer snapped the photo.

    But inside of every photograph there’s an untold story. If you look closely at Long’s picture, there’s an elderly white man standing in between Long and his friend. The unknown man was part of the counterprotests too, but was afraid, and Long and his friends were trying to protect him. Even though, Long says, those who were paid to protect the residents of Charlottesville were doing just the opposite.

    “The cops were protecting the Nazis, instead of the people who live in the city,” Long said. “The cops basically just stood in their line and looked at the chaos. The cops were not protecting the people of Charlottesville. They were protecting the outsiders.”
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:19 PM on August 14 [71 favorites]






    There is a "unity against racism" rally planned in Salt Lake City tonight, I'm trying to decide if it would be constructive to attend. I'd like to show solidarity, but such rallies here tend to be overtly religious due to the Mormon saturation, especially in the government. These are the same Mormons whose scriptures claim that dark skin is mark of evil ancestry, in contrast to the righteous "white and delightsome" people. Observing the cognitive dissonance could cause dangerous vertigo.

    Has anyone else here attended a local rally, and if so, how was it?
    posted by Hot Pastrami! at 4:22 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    Thank you Joseph Gurl. This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be amplified so that people understand it wasn't a mere clash between the violent left & the violent right.

    We had drive by shootings yesterday from a van marked kkk.


    Whoa
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:23 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    "...attempting home invasions."

    !!!!!!


    I hope the person who shared this with Kelly Hayes can share this story with, I don't know, The Guardian? WaPo? The world needs to know this. Surely there's some mainstream outlet that isn't tainted by equivocation in order to maintain their access to the White House that can blast this far and wide.
    posted by droplet at 4:25 PM on August 14 [9 favorites]


    This is from May, but it looks like there have been several lawsuits against Trump for inciting violence: Trump's violent campaign rallies come back to haunt him

    More at Lawfare.
    posted by triggerfinger at 4:28 PM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    I had heard something similar about the attempt to go attack the neighborhood, in an earlier story about the car attack. I think everything is getting subsumed by that, and a lot of these stories aren't being told yet. It's very frustrating, both from the desire to have the "not a white woman" stories told and to be able to have the stupid equivocators shut up by being able to point to very concrete evidence that there weren't in fact any individuals on the other side provoking fights because they were too busy being under siege. Obviously, some of them would not shut up, but I think we actually get to call them Nazis at that point, right?
    posted by cui bono at 4:32 PM on August 14 [5 favorites]


    I just had a weird split-second daydream in which all the US commercial webhosting companies refused to host white supremacist websites due to public pressure, and so those sites ended up being hosted by a US government webhosting service that can't refuse them due to the first amendment.
    posted by nnethercote at 4:32 PM on August 14 [3 favorites]


    Some protesters have managed to take down a confederate monument in Durham County, NC.

    The video of it coming down is amazing.
    posted by zachlipton at 4:34 PM on August 14 [76 favorites]


    Does anyone know if Trump will be forced to pass by some of the protesters to get to Trump Tower? I really want him to see all the NY Hates You signs.
    posted by Room 641-A at 4:35 PM on August 14


    Of course now the fuckin' ACLU (which, I remind you, partnered with Y Combinator, which has someone on their board who hates women and democracy) will defend these assholes, won't they?
    ACLU Statement on Charlottesville Violence and Demonstrations
    August 12, 2017

    The following is a statement from the American Civil Liberties Union on the violence and demonstrations in Charlottesville, Virginia:

    “We condemn the voices of white supremacy heard in Charlottesville today, and all violence. Our hearts are with those killed and injured.

    “Participants like KKK leader David Duke made it clear why white supremacists took to the streets of Charlottesville — they applaud President Trump’s policies and wish to intimidate Americans who are working for equality and liberty in the United States. We, like counter-protesters & others around our country, won't be intimidated. We work daily to fight systems & policies of white supremacy.

    “The First Amendment is a critical part of our democracy, and it protects vile, hateful, and ignorant speech. For this reason, the ACLU of Virginia defended the white supremacists’ right to march. But we will not be silent in the face of white supremacy. Those who do stand silent enable it. That includes our president.”
    posted by ActingTheGoat at 4:37 PM on August 14 [38 favorites]


    I think it is the Confederate War Memorial, a statue of a soldier dedicated to "the boys who wore the grey." Erected in 1924 presumably by the Daughters of the Confederacy. There are about 120 Civil War memorials across our state. They need to all be torn down.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:38 PM on August 14 [21 favorites]


    I can't believe they did it! I can't believe the cops didn't stop them! I can't believe it crumbled like a paper bag! Amazing!
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:39 PM on August 14 [30 favorites]


    I can't believe it crumbled like a paper bag!

    very accurate in that respect
    posted by entropicamericana at 4:40 PM on August 14 [15 favorites]


    There are about 120 Civil War memorials across our state. They need to all be torn down.

    Hear, hear. I'd love to see Silent Sam on the UNC-CH campus go. I'm a 1996 graduate, and It amazes me that I never once heard a single peep in my years there about how maybe that statue is inappropriate. What a difference 21 years makes.
    posted by CommonSense at 4:40 PM on August 14 [4 favorites]


    I love the guy who barely stops strumming to ax-kick the fallen statue.
    posted by BS Artisan at 4:44 PM on August 14 [12 favorites]


    I'm talking about Texas A&M
    posted by Yowser at 4:45 PM on August 14


    From where I stand as a Canadian, the ACLU is an enabler of hate speech. But you do you.
    posted by Yowser at 4:45 PM on August 14 [15 favorites]


    I hope to see many more of the statues which inappropriately memorialize the Confederate blight torn down. It is my opinion that We the People need not wait for permission to rip these down. Gave me chills watching it slam into the ground.
    posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:46 PM on August 14 [14 favorites]


    That video is glorious. More like that please.
    posted by JDHarper at 4:46 PM on August 14 [7 favorites]


    From where I stand as a Canadian, the ACLU is an enabler of hate speech. But you do you.

    The Eh-CLU meeting is two doors down, friend.
    posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:57 PM on August 14 [21 favorites]




    Once again, our failure to take domestic violence seriously is a factor in yet another killing.

    He was also kicked out of Army Basic Training.

    That is another thing that should be tracked. These people that join the military but then get kicked out in their first year; they want all the trappings of the military, but none of the following rules part. They invariably brag about their "time in the military" afterwards, too.
    posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 4:59 PM on August 14 [32 favorites]


    This is from May, but it looks like there have been several lawsuits against Trump for inciting violence: Trump's violent campaign rallies come back to haunt him

    Yeah, candidate Trump certainly could be and was sued for actions he took when he was a candidate. President Trump can't be federally sued for actions taken while President, though, like I said. And suing President Trump over Charlottesville because of his speeches from a year ago wouldn't fly.
    posted by Justinian at 5:00 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    I can't believe it crumbled like a paper bag!

    It was a statue of Augustus M. "Paper Bag" Jackson.
    posted by condour75 at 5:00 PM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    Ben Jealous (former NAACP chief, current Maryland gubernatorial candidate):
    Let's take down monuments that celebrate people who placed themselves firmly on the worst side of American history. #Charlottesville
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:00 PM on August 14 [24 favorites]


    That's a shame what happened to that statue. A real shame. It would totally suck if that happened to all of them. Totally suck.
    posted by Justinian at 5:02 PM on August 14 [24 favorites]


    If you weren't aware (and I wasn't), that Durham action is particularly sweet because ex-governor and all around GOP asshole Pat McCrory signed a bill into law in 2015 sent to him by the illegally gerrymandered legislature that makes "historical monuments and memorials" extremely difficult for local governments to remove.
    posted by deludingmyself at 5:03 PM on August 14 [33 favorites]


    The people who took down the statue in Durham are gonna need a legal defense fund. Everyone keep a look out for a link, and let's all try and chip in when we find it.
    posted by duffell at 5:05 PM on August 14 [19 favorites]


    I made this comment in this thread (about the Portland stuff>. In it I talked about my time in going to protests as what to me was the Black Bloc.

    Today, we finally have stories like this link to Cornel West that Joseph Gurl posted.

    This is what I'm talking about. This was the Black Bloc I knew.

    In that post I also talked about my confrontation with a white supremacist. That confrontation happened in Charlottesville. I'll leave it to the reader to draw their own conclusions, but what I said about the cops and the system in that town are evident in the complaints by many, many people who were there on the ground. Even the statements about how "there was not property damage" is so fucking telling about how fucked up the system is.

    But at least today I get to see the stories of heroic acts.
    posted by daq at 5:07 PM on August 14 [15 favorites]


    Remember when the GOP and right-wingers were celebrating that video of Iraqis pulling down a statue of Saddam Hussein? Let's keep that in mind when they start crying. The confederates are at least as bad as Saddam Hussein.
    posted by Justinian at 5:07 PM on August 14 [39 favorites]


    Current status: texting my folks in NC not quite asking them to go tear down some Confederate statues, but wouldn't be sad if they got inspired. You're retired, Dad, you need a hobby!
    posted by deludingmyself at 5:08 PM on August 14 [29 favorites]


    I'm about 4 blocks away from a plethora of civil war monuments at the capitol bldg in Raleigh. I'm glad to see it come down in Durham. Love to see it come down in Raleigh, but I don't have the balls, you guys, I'm sorry.
    posted by yoga at 5:13 PM on August 14 [5 favorites]


    My thoughts on seeing that statue topple down: maybe someday the Civil War will finally end. When all these statues get the same treatment, when we dismantle every last remaining vestige of Jim Crow, when we address and redress the still rippling impacts of slavery.
    posted by yasaman at 5:13 PM on August 14 [14 favorites]


    So proud of my fellow NC patriots in Durham tonight. Hopefully Silent Sam is next.
    posted by Token Meme at 5:20 PM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    yoga; its easy to talk big from 2000 miles away, it's different when you'd be the one risking fines or vandalism charges! Don't feel bad!
    posted by Justinian at 5:20 PM on August 14 [11 favorites]


    In addition to denouncing the KkK,. Neo-nazis, etc, I'd like to hear more specific condemnation of anti-Semitism.
    posted by Room 641-A at 5:22 PM on August 14 [15 favorites]


    So, in a collision of this thread and the other non-POTUS45 thread-of-ugh, James Damore's little MRA alt-right fan club, along with fucking Infowars, have decided to throw an in-person hissy fit at our local Google office on Saturday (when few Googlers will be there, but I think we all know that is not the point). What I had previously dismissed as likely to be about 5 dudes off reddit hanging around on a random sidewalk seems to be turning into Oh Shit Are The Nazis Coming Here?

    They have not requested a permit, per a statement just released by the mayor's office, but I get the impression that if they apply for one, they'll get it. Counter-protests are being organized. Our local Google office is in a gentrified urban area that borders many Black communities. (But the building itself is in a New Urbanist "public square" looking area that actually ain't public at all--I'm not sure if they know that.) I'm terrified. I'm planning on counter-protesting, but I honestly don't know what a win looks like here. Just making sure no one gets beat? Run over? Shot?

    (Also it feels super weird to be protesting people protesting Google. 2017, man.)
    posted by soren_lorensen at 5:33 PM on August 14 [21 favorites]


    From where I stand as a Canadian, the ACLU is an enabler of hate speech. But you do you.

    Luckily that means your opinion on the subject of American speech litigation is essentially worthless, but please, keep coming around telling us how fucked things are and dumping on the victims of Trumpism as an outsider, because that's definitely helping.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 5:33 PM on August 14 [37 favorites]


    its easy to talk big from 2000 miles away, it's different when you'd be the one risking fines or vandalism charges! Don't feel bad!

    Exactly. I feel bad egging my father on, and he's been arrested significantly more times than my zero.

    On the other hand, I'm totally bugging him to walk back down to the cemetery down the block and replace the rebel flag with a white pillow case as many times as necessary right now so.
    posted by deludingmyself at 5:34 PM on August 14 [8 favorites]


    I'mma donate extra to the ACLU every time somebody craps on them.
    posted by Justinian at 5:35 PM on August 14 [22 favorites]


    (Though on the up side, the house I pass every day on my way to work with the weirdest flag display ever--a US flag, a Union Jack, and a Confederate flag) seems to have removed the Confederate flag. Better late than never to stop displaying white supremacist regalia, I guess? )
    posted by soren_lorensen at 5:37 PM on August 14 [8 favorites]


    The ACLU needs to examine itself a little harder.
    posted by Annika Cicada at 5:38 PM on August 14 [7 favorites]


    They sprayed cooking oil on the damn monument in Durham to keep people from tearing it down.
    posted by yoga at 5:39 PM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    In addition to denouncing the KkK,. Neo-nazis, etc, I'd like to hear more specific condemnation of anti-Semitism.

    Tell that to the "March for Racial Justice" in DC, which they're holding on Yom Kippur (it is the anniversary of the Elaine Massacre in Elaine, Arkansas; the next day would also be the anniversary, it lasted two days). Their website calls out how white supremacists are marching and "terrorizing communities of color, Muslim, and Jewish communities," doesn't mention anti-Semitism, and they're holding the march on the one day of the year when Jews with any religious attachment at all are least able to attend. And they blow anyone off on Facebook who points this out.

    Have whatever march you want, but don't claim you're sticking up for Jewish communities when you schedule the thing on Yom Kippur and don't mention anti-Semitism.
    posted by zachlipton at 5:40 PM on August 14 [30 favorites]


    They sprayed cooking oil on the damn monument in Durham to keep people from tearing it down.

    that was slick wasn't it? maybe they just sprayed it to keep it from sticking around ...
    posted by pyramid termite at 5:46 PM on August 14 [3 favorites]


    From where I stand as a Canadian, the ACLU is an enabler of hate speech. But you do you.

    I don't much agree but at the same time I'm not really understanding all the hostility to your expressing your opinion. I mean, we Americans feel free to pontificate on the values of other nations all the time. And to treat our most enlightened progressive 2017 principles as the instant default standard for everyone in every nation and at all points in time. I very much welcome seeing how our "rights" look from the viewpoint of outsiders.
    posted by xigxag at 5:46 PM on August 14 [22 favorites]


    National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo, is not in a joking mood: Donald Trump’s despicable words
    “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides. On many sides,” he said Saturday.

    On many sides.

    It is important when you consider the situation of a man whose face has been crushed by a boot to wonder if any damage might have been done to the boot.

    One man’s life has been threatened, but on the other hand, another man’s property has been threatened. (Where have I heard this before? What is this park we are standing in, again?) You must consider and weigh these two things against one another. The North showed considerable aggression against the South, you could say.

    This is not good enough. At what point can we stop giving people the benefit of the doubt? “Gotta Hear Both Sides” is carved over the entrance to Hell. How long must we continue to hear from idiots who are wrong? I don’t want to hear debate unless there is something legitimately to be debated, and people’s rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are not among those things. They are self-evident, or used to seem so.
    posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:47 PM on August 14 [88 favorites]


    Tell that to the "March for Racial Justice" in DC, which they're holding on Yom Kippur

    Sandy Koufax weeps.
    posted by Room 641-A at 5:48 PM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    Well the profanity could get them in trouble with the FCC. Our wonderful First Amendment covers calling for genocide against Jews, but not saying "fuck" on the air. Don't you just feel free?

    The FCC doesn't regulate profanity on cable television. (or on the internet) So, yeah, I do feel fucking free.
    posted by Guy Smiley at 5:50 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]



    If you weren't aware (and I wasn't), that Durham action is particularly sweet because ex-governor and all around GOP asshole Pat McCrory signed a bill into law in 2015 sent to him by the illegally gerrymandered legislature that makes "historical monuments and memorials" extremely difficult for local governments to remove.

    posted by deludingmyself at 8:03 PM on August 14

    Because of course the racist fucks from the rural areas vote GOP. So while the cities: Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Charlotte, & Asheville are all Blue they are controlled by the GOP General Assembly. From time to time the cities get it in their heads to do something progressive like pass legislation allowing trans people to use the bathroom of their choice and the fucking racist rednecks decide to pass a state law that says you can't.

    120 119 Civil War Statues and monuments in NC-- most of them erected in the 1920's by the Daughters of the Confederacy to make sure everybody kept those sweet little Boys in Grey in their hearts and minds. We don't need them to remember the Civil War, trust me!
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:51 PM on August 14 [17 favorites]


    Holy SHIT that Petri column.
    Of course they gathered with torches, because the only liberty they have lost is the liberty to gather with torches and decide whose house to visit with terror. That is the right that is denied them: the right to other people’s possessions, the right to be the only person in the room, the right to be the only person that the world is made for. (These are not rights. They are wrongs.) You are sad because your toys have been taken, but they were never toys to begin with. They were people. It is the ending of the fairy tale; because you were a beast, you did not see that the things around you were people and not objects that existed purely for your pleasure. You should not weep that the curse is broken and you can see that your footstool was a human being.

    But to rejoice in that discovery you have to stop being a beast first, and they have not. Why would they? Trump promises to turn the world back and bring the curse again. That is implicit in his every speech, a dog whistle strong enough that every dog in America is deaf and in constant pain.
    posted by theodolite at 5:55 PM on August 14 [141 favorites]


    They sprayed cooking oil on the damn monument in Durham to keep people from tearing it down.

    Right, that's why they were lubing the racist fetish object.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 5:57 PM on August 14 [10 favorites]


    So, I just posted the articles of secession of some of the southern states to my stepfather's page. Might be the end of my relationship with my mother because, you know, abusive asshole. Fuck this year.
    posted by cui bono at 6:00 PM on August 14 [16 favorites]


    A blessed Atlantan soul has reported the Confederate monument in Decatur to the city as "trash."👍 There's now a petition for removal that I hope works!
    posted by nicebookrack at 6:01 PM on August 14 [40 favorites]


    that Durham action is particularly sweet because ex-governor and all around GOP asshole Pat McCrory signed a bill into law in 2015 sent to him by the illegally gerrymandered legislature

    I have no problem reminding the legislature that if they fuck about with the mechanisms of law, they are de-legitimising themselves, and that they serve at our pleasure.
    posted by Devonian at 6:02 PM on August 14 [3 favorites]


    Because of course the racist fucks from the rural areas vote GOP. So while the cities: Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Charlotte, & Asheville are all Blue they are controlled by the GOP General Assembly. From time to time the cities get it in their heads to do something progressive like pass legislation allowing trans people to use the bathroom of their choice and the fucking racist rednecks decide to pass a state law that says you can't.

    We have the same problem in Arizona. I suspect it's the case in many red states.
    posted by Superplin at 6:09 PM on August 14 [8 favorites]


    I'm confused about something with James Fields Jr (who drove into the crowd and killed Heather Heyer). The AP story says this about his background:
    The records from the Florence Police Department in Kentucky show the man's mother had called police in 2011. Fields' mother, Samantha Bloom, told police he stood behind her wielding a 12-inch knife. Bloom is disabled and uses a wheelchair.

    In another incident in 2010, Bloom said that Fields smacked her in the head and locked her in the bathroom after she told him to stop playing video games. Bloom told officers Fields was on medication to control his temper.
    But it also says this:
    As a senior, Fields wanted become a tank commander in the Army. Weimer, a former officer in the Ohio National Guard, guided him through the process of applying, he said, believing that the military would expose Fields to people of different races and backgrounds and help dispel his white supremacist views. But Fields was ultimately turned down, which was a big blow, Weimer said. Weimer said he lost contact with Fields after he graduated and was surprised to hear reports that Fields had enlisted in the Army.

    Army spokeswoman Lt. Col. Jennifer Johnson said Fields reported for basic military training in August 2015, but was released from active duty four months later "due to a failure to meet training standards."
    I suppose it depends on the rest of ones record and such, but you can threaten your disabled mother with a knife or lock her in the bathroom as a teenager and ship off to join the Army a few years later?
    posted by zachlipton at 6:13 PM on August 14 [5 favorites]


    The Boston Holocaust memorial was vandalized today for the second time this summer. It shouldn't be a brave thing to wear a visible Star of David necklace in Boston (or anywhere else in the US), but it's starting to feel like it.
    posted by ChuraChura at 6:14 PM on August 14 [12 favorites]


    Neo-Nazis Slowly Realize This Small Town Totally Punked Them:
    In preparation for an upcoming neo-Nazi march in the small Bavarian town of Wunsiedel, local residents decided to fight back in a hilariously perfect way: by sponsoring each of the 250 fascist participants. According to Heeb Magazine, "For every metre they walked, €10 went to a programme called EXIT Deutschland, which helps people escape extremist groups."

    The anti-semitic walkers didn't figure out the town's scheme until they had already started their march, and by that time, it was too late to turn back. The end result? The neo-Nazis raised more than $12,000 to fund programs to put an end to neo-Nazis.
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:16 PM on August 14 [97 favorites]


    Of course you can. You never heard that, the military relaxing their standards? It happened literally decades ago.
    posted by agregoli at 6:16 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    I suppose it depends on the rest of ones record and such, but you can threaten your disabled mother with a knife or lock her in the bathroom as a teenager and ship off to join the Army a few years later?

    Not enough information, Army is mostly looking at a criminal record, and if he was never charged, they might not have known. Also, "failure to meet training standards" I'm pretty sure is the catch-all discharge from basic, it could've been he couldn't pass the PT test, or he got to basic and started calling all the black cadets the N-word.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 6:19 PM on August 14 [6 favorites]


    Fields sounds so much like Richard Poplawski, the white supremacist fuck that committed a mass shooting of police in my neighborhood a decade ago. He was abusive to his mom, who he lived with, shipped off to the military only to get kicked out before finishing boot camp for being a colossal asshole. The domestic dispute 911 call that led to his ambush of cops was placed by his mom. Which, like, tl;dr but none of this is new, in case we needed a reminder.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 6:21 PM on August 14 [10 favorites]


    The Boston Holocaust memorial was vandalized today for the second time this summer.

    Suspect is 17 and from Malden (a Boston suburb). Two bystanders grabbed him and held him for police.
    posted by adamg at 6:24 PM on August 14 [30 favorites]


    Fields was only in the army for four months. That's not even enough time to make through basic training.
    posted by rdr at 6:25 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


    Malden, figures. Yay for those bystanders.
    posted by spitbull at 6:26 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]


    Chats of #UniteTheRight Charlottesville Organizers Exposed on Discord App
    On the Discord server, far-right militants also discussed bringing more guns to their next rally, blamed the local police and government for being “communist”, discussed doxing anti-fascist protesters they’re targeting, stated they see recent events as the beginning of civil war they want to start, and speculated how if Lauren Southern showed up they would fight amongst each other to claim her as their “war bride”.

    They're openly discussing more car attacks and using guns at the next rally. Should be prima facie evidence of intent to riot and no further permits should be granted, anywhere. This is not free speech, it's incitement. There's a long line of cases that says incitement to violence is not protected under the first amendment.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 6:35 PM on August 14 [89 favorites]



    Whenever something really horrible or scary happens, or in an emergency, my emotions go flat. Not numb just even and cool. I call it my robot mode. I've experienced this enough to know that at some point within the few days after something will trigger them. Never know what exactly. It can be anything. I'm used to it enough to expect it but what does it is always a surprise.

    This one was the video of the statue being pulled down. Been crying for 10 mins. I hope this becomes of thing because it's very powerful.
    posted by Jalliah at 6:40 PM on August 14 [21 favorites]


    I live near downtown Durham and drove past the courthouse where this all just happened. Unfortunately it was already over and getting dark by the time I heard what went down, but seeing the empty pedestal surrounded with jubilant people of all colors, and the ring of nonviolent police looking on, was exactly the experience I needed after this horrible fucking week. The boyfriend and I went to Cook-out and got milkshakes to celebrate.