Why Did This Guy Transcribe All These John Coltrane Solos?
August 13, 2017 8:52 PM Subscribe
"For nearly 60 years, Andrew White has committed John Coltrane’s solos to paper, capturing the saxophone giant’s famously free-flight improvisations in notes that don’t appear on standard jazz sheet music." As of 2015, White had transcribed 840 solos.
Any examples? I really want to see what that looks like.
posted by dilaudid at 9:14 PM on August 13, 2017
posted by dilaudid at 9:14 PM on August 13, 2017
Lousy (incomplete?) article. Here's a better article with an example: http://www.capitalbop.com/musician-profile-andrew-white-keeper-of-the-trane-is-a-living-legend-unknown-to-many/
posted by milnak at 9:27 PM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by milnak at 9:27 PM on August 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Don't know about Chasing Trane, but Chasin' the Trane is a pretty good book.
posted by LeLiLo at 10:02 PM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by LeLiLo at 10:02 PM on August 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was also curious and found this example, from this blog post*.
Incredible. As someone who's tried to transcribe vocal parts with the considerable help of software that slows music down, I am completely blown away by the thought of accurately transcribing improvised jazz. Handwritten transcriptions are a thing of beauty!
*Wouldn't normally link to a scan of something for sale, but it does appear to be somewhat difficult to order these. Mods, please delete if this is not allowed!
posted by katecholamine at 2:32 AM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Incredible. As someone who's tried to transcribe vocal parts with the considerable help of software that slows music down, I am completely blown away by the thought of accurately transcribing improvised jazz. Handwritten transcriptions are a thing of beauty!
*Wouldn't normally link to a scan of something for sale, but it does appear to be somewhat difficult to order these. Mods, please delete if this is not allowed!
posted by katecholamine at 2:32 AM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Animated Sheet Music: "Giant Steps" by John Coltrane (youtube) Each note appears on the staff as it's played.
I don't read sheet music, but the video is still fascinating.
posted by jjj606 at 4:56 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't read sheet music, but the video is still fascinating.
posted by jjj606 at 4:56 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Thanks for posting this - White has been a DC jazz fixture since his days at Howard University in the early 1960s, playing with the JFK Quintet.
posted by ryanshepard at 5:14 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanshepard at 5:14 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I had forgotten that there was an electric bassist on three tracks from Sweetnighter; I had no idea that guy was also a saxophonist and oboe player.
I am completely blown away by the thought of accurately transcribing improvised jazz
People do it all the time - it's the #1 advice given to students, transcribe solos.
posted by thelonius at 5:40 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am completely blown away by the thought of accurately transcribing improvised jazz
People do it all the time - it's the #1 advice given to students, transcribe solos.
posted by thelonius at 5:40 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
"notes that don’t appear on standard jazz sheet music" ?? really...?
the examples look like pretty standard sheet music to me.
posted by mary8nne at 5:41 AM on August 14, 2017
the examples look like pretty standard sheet music to me.
posted by mary8nne at 5:41 AM on August 14, 2017
the examples look like pretty standard sheet music to me.
probably he was thinking of how to notate overblowing or multiphonics, or other unusual saxophone techniques such as the late Coltrane may have used
posted by thelonius at 5:47 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
probably he was thinking of how to notate overblowing or multiphonics, or other unusual saxophone techniques such as the late Coltrane may have used
posted by thelonius at 5:47 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
....but it also has that tell-tale breathless tone of a reporter who has little knowledge of what he's writing about
posted by thelonius at 6:16 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 6:16 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
> the examples look like pretty standard sheet music to me.
I assumed that he just meant that the solos aren't normally transcribed in published editions of sheet music. Like, if you were to go buy a book of Coltrane tunes you'd get chord charts and transcriptions of the major melodic themes, but the improvised parts wouldn't be there because you're supposed to fill in the blanks yourself. So it's the note-for-note literal transcription that's nonstandard, not the notation itself.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 6:42 AM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
I assumed that he just meant that the solos aren't normally transcribed in published editions of sheet music. Like, if you were to go buy a book of Coltrane tunes you'd get chord charts and transcriptions of the major melodic themes, but the improvised parts wouldn't be there because you're supposed to fill in the blanks yourself. So it's the note-for-note literal transcription that's nonstandard, not the notation itself.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 6:42 AM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
At least, that was my reading. It's kind of bad writing, because it definitely makes it sound like he's talking about some kind of special notation or something. I mean, I'm still not 100% sure he's not; I'm just trying to give the writer the benefit of the doubt.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 6:44 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 6:44 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
What a really fantastic long term project, just the smallest note of reservation, as much as I love many flavors of jazz these could be a tough listen in the hands of less accomplished horn players.
posted by sammyo at 7:04 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by sammyo at 7:04 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am completely blown away by the thought of accurately transcribing improvised jazz . . .
People do it all the time - it's the #1 advice given to students, transcribe solos. . . .
. . . could be a tough listen in the hands of less accomplished horn players.
posted by Herodios at 7:59 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
People do it all the time - it's the #1 advice given to students, transcribe solos. . . .
. . . could be a tough listen in the hands of less accomplished horn players.
Your boyfriend is really a jerk -erk-erk-erk-erk-erk-- another ace lyrics quote from Herodios (Andrew Rogers, RIP)
Will he ever learn to play the saxophone
He plays that same song over and over
honk HONK skweel HONK HONK . . .
posted by Herodios at 7:59 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I assumed that he just meant that the solos aren't normally transcribed in published editions of sheet music.
I studied vibraphone for two years, but what I was playing wasn't technically jazz, even though it sounded like jazz. I was playing what they call "commercial music," because my parts were fully notated. I didn't have the technical skills to improvise solos, so everything I played was written out note by note by the composer (I should have stuck to playing the drums, honestly). All the jazz sheet music I've seen has been almost laughably sparse in comparison. Usually just the melody, usually with a much simpler rhythm than what you'll actually hear when it's played.
Solo transcriptions are great, and transcribing Coltrane is a hard feat. Like, incredibly hard. It's seriously impressive that White has transcribed so many.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 8:29 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I studied vibraphone for two years, but what I was playing wasn't technically jazz, even though it sounded like jazz. I was playing what they call "commercial music," because my parts were fully notated. I didn't have the technical skills to improvise solos, so everything I played was written out note by note by the composer (I should have stuck to playing the drums, honestly). All the jazz sheet music I've seen has been almost laughably sparse in comparison. Usually just the melody, usually with a much simpler rhythm than what you'll actually hear when it's played.
Solo transcriptions are great, and transcribing Coltrane is a hard feat. Like, incredibly hard. It's seriously impressive that White has transcribed so many.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 8:29 AM on August 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
***Generally speaking*** -- that's speaking generally now, in the main, for the most part, not taking into account exceptions and for the nonce ignoring internet gotcha culture, ya follow? Okay.
Generally speaking, jazz music is presented among musicians orally, supported by schematic 'headsheets' indicating a main melody, chord changes, and timing.
Outside of some pedagogical setting I would say it's very rare for a jazz soloist to be expected to duplicate another's recorded solo note for note.
This is the opposite of rock music where most solos are at least partially planned ahead if not worked out in detail, and a cover band's lead player is expected to duplicate the recorded solo fairly accurately. The web is awash with rock guitar solo transcriptions in tablature and video form.
ON THE OTHER HAND transcribing solos and reading transcribed solos and rehearsing transcribed solos is a wonderful way to learn about how good jazz solos are constructed. Eight-hundred-some accurately transcribed Coltrane solos is a treasure, 64th notes and all. But you learn 'em and internalize 'em and make metamorphological mutations of your own, you don't go out and play 'Trane's solos note-for-note (or tone for tone). That would not be jazz.
posted by Herodios at 9:00 AM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
Generally speaking, jazz music is presented among musicians orally, supported by schematic 'headsheets' indicating a main melody, chord changes, and timing.
Outside of some pedagogical setting I would say it's very rare for a jazz soloist to be expected to duplicate another's recorded solo note for note.
This is the opposite of rock music where most solos are at least partially planned ahead if not worked out in detail, and a cover band's lead player is expected to duplicate the recorded solo fairly accurately. The web is awash with rock guitar solo transcriptions in tablature and video form.
ON THE OTHER HAND transcribing solos and reading transcribed solos and rehearsing transcribed solos is a wonderful way to learn about how good jazz solos are constructed. Eight-hundred-some accurately transcribed Coltrane solos is a treasure, 64th notes and all. But you learn 'em and internalize 'em and make metamorphological mutations of your own, you don't go out and play 'Trane's solos note-for-note (or tone for tone). That would not be jazz.
posted by Herodios at 9:00 AM on August 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
As an example of how to get jazz performance transcribed into conventional notation, there are images online of Ian Anderson's (Jethro Tull) variation of the Bach Bouree. I don't have a good link, but I've seen sections marked "dirty" and "overblow". It's hard for me to imagine any flutist could reproduce the original with confidence if he had never heard it. And, of course, it doesn't include the extemporaneous solos.
posted by SemiSalt at 9:28 AM on August 14, 2017
posted by SemiSalt at 9:28 AM on August 14, 2017
Transcribing solos is one of the primary ways to learn the jazz 'language'. I have a degree in jazz saxophone performance and during my studies I was expected to spend a good deal of time transcribing and memorizing both complete solos and various melodic phrases from jazz recordings. As many have mentioned above transcription is hard, but pretty much everything about playing music (especially jazz) at a high level is hard.
To be an acceptable (not even good, just acceptable) jazz musician requires three things (actually a bunch more but these ones are pretty key):
1) Technical fluency on your instrument. You should be able to play everything accurately and at high speeds. This is developed by practicing scales and patterns and all that stuff for hours on end.
2) A well trained ear. You should be able to translate what you hear in your mind into actual sounds on your instrument. This is developed through various ear training exercises and by learning everything in all 12 keys over the full range of your instrument.
3) Extensive knowledge of the jazz idiom. This is developed by transcribing and memorizing solos. This part is key to playing jazz. It doesn't matter how well you can play if you don't know what to play.
Of course this is just the way my teachers taught me to approach music, there are tons of equally valid ways to do things, but I can't imagine a way to learn jazz that doesn't involve a bunch of transcription. The phrase 'You have to learn the rules before you can break them' was pretty much the foundation of my music education.
probably he was thinking of how to notate overblowing or multiphonics, or other unusual saxophone techniques such as the late Coltrane may have used
This is probably accurate. I have a Coltrane transcription book and the first several pages go over the different symbols the transcriber uses to indicate alternate fingerings and extended technique stuff.
posted by Television Name at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
To be an acceptable (not even good, just acceptable) jazz musician requires three things (actually a bunch more but these ones are pretty key):
1) Technical fluency on your instrument. You should be able to play everything accurately and at high speeds. This is developed by practicing scales and patterns and all that stuff for hours on end.
2) A well trained ear. You should be able to translate what you hear in your mind into actual sounds on your instrument. This is developed through various ear training exercises and by learning everything in all 12 keys over the full range of your instrument.
3) Extensive knowledge of the jazz idiom. This is developed by transcribing and memorizing solos. This part is key to playing jazz. It doesn't matter how well you can play if you don't know what to play.
Of course this is just the way my teachers taught me to approach music, there are tons of equally valid ways to do things, but I can't imagine a way to learn jazz that doesn't involve a bunch of transcription. The phrase 'You have to learn the rules before you can break them' was pretty much the foundation of my music education.
probably he was thinking of how to notate overblowing or multiphonics, or other unusual saxophone techniques such as the late Coltrane may have used
This is probably accurate. I have a Coltrane transcription book and the first several pages go over the different symbols the transcriber uses to indicate alternate fingerings and extended technique stuff.
posted by Television Name at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
The Church of John Coltrane is in San Francisco, and an acolyte was passing out flyers for a service that evening. I told him I'd seen Coltrane years ago in Buffalo. He had just kicked heroin and found God, and he had a severe Mohawk haircut. His group started "My Favorite Things" and within a minute all conversation in the audience stopped, the hookers stopped hooking, the cash register stopped ringing. It lasted over half an hour. Everyone was transfixed by the pure magnificence of his music. Coltrane played soprano saxophone. I believe it was McCoy Tyner on piano, Steve Davis on bass, the incomparable Elvin Jones on drums, as for the studio recording the year before (1961). Afterwards, there was a strained silence for a moment before everything returned to normal. I have always wished I had gone to the service that evening in San Francisco.
posted by Why Soitanly at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Why Soitanly at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
The part that fascinated me was that White apparently makes a living from the transcriptions.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:13 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:13 AM on August 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I lived just across the street from the Church of John Coltrane on Turk Street. I could hear the music from my open window, and although I never went inside, many times I stood at the threshold listening to the music and the service.
You should definitely go if you have a chance.
Although it sounded to me like they don't always have the same musicians, and sometimes then music was not as good, but still a great experience.
posted by Dr. Curare at 11:16 AM on August 14, 2017
You should definitely go if you have a chance.
Although it sounded to me like they don't always have the same musicians, and sometimes then music was not as good, but still a great experience.
posted by Dr. Curare at 11:16 AM on August 14, 2017
Coltrane's son Ravi, btw, plays tenor and soprano sax. Talk about walking in the shadow of the big man! Here's a song from Jack DeJohnette's recent album "In Movement": Serpentine Fire. (The bassist, Matthew Garrison, is the son of Coltrane bassist Jimmy Garrison, and I think he is also DeJohnette's godson).
posted by thelonius at 11:21 AM on August 14, 2017
posted by thelonius at 11:21 AM on August 14, 2017
Related (distantly): A fan of Dizzy Gillespie's once transcribed one of his gnarliest solos and proudly presented his idol with the sheet music. Diz looked it over and said, "Shit, I can't play that."
I probably heard that here.
posted by tspae at 5:13 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
I probably heard that here.
posted by tspae at 5:13 PM on August 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
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