You Are a Sophomore at Most Distinguished University of the North
June 18, 2020 11:45 AM Subscribe
September 7, 2020, a choose your own "adventure" about returning to school this fall by Cait Kirby, a PhD candidate at Vanderbilt who promoted diversity, equity, and inclusion in higher ed and STEM.
Welp, we're going to sacrifice health and safety for the money, I guess.
Yes but we're going to do a bunch of hand wringing about what a difficult choice it is before we do, and we're going to cry whocuddanown after. And by we I mean the administrators collectively making the decision that we must feed moloch.
Watching the hand wringing disgusts me. If you're going to decide to not give a shit, fucking own it. The irony of course is that if they were capable of that they'd probably be capable of doing the humane thing and figuring out how we don't have megadeaths in the fall.
posted by PMdixon at 12:22 PM on June 18, 2020 [9 favorites]
Yes but we're going to do a bunch of hand wringing about what a difficult choice it is before we do, and we're going to cry whocuddanown after. And by we I mean the administrators collectively making the decision that we must feed moloch.
Watching the hand wringing disgusts me. If you're going to decide to not give a shit, fucking own it. The irony of course is that if they were capable of that they'd probably be capable of doing the humane thing and figuring out how we don't have megadeaths in the fall.
posted by PMdixon at 12:22 PM on June 18, 2020 [9 favorites]
In a less awful timeline, "You Are a Sophomore at Most Distinguished University of the North" is the start of a fun Hogwarts/Game of Thrones mashup fanfic, instead of a bleak, prescient prediction for how a bunch of college kids are going to die totally preventable deaths.
posted by mstokes650 at 12:27 PM on June 18, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by mstokes650 at 12:27 PM on June 18, 2020 [6 favorites]
I'm petrified of outside right now. Normal asthma, immune disease, blah blah. I'm SO fortunate that I don't have to leave the house. So, I say this with absolute 100% open mindedness and care F*&^ any place that is charging you to attend and forcing in person appearance when not necessary.
posted by lextex at 12:50 PM on June 18, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by lextex at 12:50 PM on June 18, 2020 [9 favorites]
Thank you for sharing this! As we march along in this new "pandemic normal", it's easy to get disaffected and dispirited. It's easy to lose focus and to surrender to any appeal for a return to normalcy. This is especially true for the younger, healthier, privileged segments of our society. In various ways a lot of people brush up against some element of those categories. Or at least, they imagine, hope, and wish that they do.
This CYOA exercise is very useful for being reminded that there are many people out there who do more than brush up against the polar opposites of youth, health, and privilege. We cannot afford to marginalize these people. Indeed, our policies should be geared toward first protecting the most vulnerable among us. Ultimately, that will keep everyone safer anyway. It's the principal of herd immunity not just from a biological standpoint, but from a social behavior and responsibility standpoint.
The only way out is through, but we have to bring everyone along with us. Nobody should be left behind.
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 1:15 PM on June 18, 2020 [8 favorites]
This CYOA exercise is very useful for being reminded that there are many people out there who do more than brush up against the polar opposites of youth, health, and privilege. We cannot afford to marginalize these people. Indeed, our policies should be geared toward first protecting the most vulnerable among us. Ultimately, that will keep everyone safer anyway. It's the principal of herd immunity not just from a biological standpoint, but from a social behavior and responsibility standpoint.
The only way out is through, but we have to bring everyone along with us. Nobody should be left behind.
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 1:15 PM on June 18, 2020 [8 favorites]
I really appreciate what you have to say, GYBEP. But I also have a college sophomore who hasn't been able to seen any of his friends since March, and my heart is breaking for him. I don't see online classes as being an adequate replacement for the college experience (certainly not at full price), and I don't see how young people can just stay alone with their families for months or years more without it crushing them.
This game really personalizes that conundrum. I feel awful and I don't know what the answer could be. It seems that diligent and universal mask-wearing would really work, but I also know the realities of college life. I don't want anything to reopen until we have some kind of working strategies, but US politics seems to ensure we definitely won't have those, and I hate to think what a federal bailout of higher education would look like in this climate. All the options look terrible, and I don't have the expertise to figure out which ones are worst.
posted by rikschell at 2:41 PM on June 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
This game really personalizes that conundrum. I feel awful and I don't know what the answer could be. It seems that diligent and universal mask-wearing would really work, but I also know the realities of college life. I don't want anything to reopen until we have some kind of working strategies, but US politics seems to ensure we definitely won't have those, and I hate to think what a federal bailout of higher education would look like in this climate. All the options look terrible, and I don't have the expertise to figure out which ones are worst.
posted by rikschell at 2:41 PM on June 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
It's a challenge but I have taken courses that are simultaneously taught in person and remotely. This was built in because my program was offered residentially and online and so a handful of courses were taught in both modes, mainly using zoom for the online students which was broadcast in the classroom that us residential students were in. While it's certainly not the easiest thing to do, it's a little frustrating that people keep going with either/or options instead of looking at potential hybrid options. But obviously, the courses had been designed to be hybrid courses from the start and it's difficult to retroactively fit something into a new mold. But I hope more professors and administrators think of more useful solutions instead of just throwing their hands up and saying, 'whelp, looks like x% are just gonna be screwed."
posted by acidnova at 3:02 PM on June 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by acidnova at 3:02 PM on June 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
While it's certainly not the easiest thing to do, it's a little frustrating that people keep going with either/or options instead of looking at potential hybrid options.
I don't see that as being the case at all... most institutions seem to be opting for hybrid options. Or maybe it's just the bigger places, which, admittedly, are the ones I'm biased towards thinking about.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:28 PM on June 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
I don't see that as being the case at all... most institutions seem to be opting for hybrid options. Or maybe it's just the bigger places, which, admittedly, are the ones I'm biased towards thinking about.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:28 PM on June 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
I feel awful and I don't know what the answer could be. It seems that diligent and universal mask-wearing would really work, but I also know the realities of college life.
I don't know if it's the answer, but I think colleges might have certain advantages when it comes to testing and tracking. Universities generally have some kind of student health infrastructure in place, and they can use it to deploy mandatory, randomized (or semi-randomized targeted) testing. Tracking is somewhat simplified because you have a database of where everyone lives and what their class schedules are. On some campuses, you can monitor physical access points, so you know who's coming and going. And if there's a positive test, it's easy to say "we're moving the classes this student was in to online for the next two weeks".
I know that there are disadvantages in regards to the social behavior of college-age people and the proximity of dorm living, but there might be strategies to mitigate these.
In my ideal world, colleges will implement the kind of policies that the US and state governments should have been implementing over the past four months...
posted by mr_roboto at 3:36 PM on June 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
I don't know if it's the answer, but I think colleges might have certain advantages when it comes to testing and tracking. Universities generally have some kind of student health infrastructure in place, and they can use it to deploy mandatory, randomized (or semi-randomized targeted) testing. Tracking is somewhat simplified because you have a database of where everyone lives and what their class schedules are. On some campuses, you can monitor physical access points, so you know who's coming and going. And if there's a positive test, it's easy to say "we're moving the classes this student was in to online for the next two weeks".
I know that there are disadvantages in regards to the social behavior of college-age people and the proximity of dorm living, but there might be strategies to mitigate these.
In my ideal world, colleges will implement the kind of policies that the US and state governments should have been implementing over the past four months...
posted by mr_roboto at 3:36 PM on June 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
rikschell, I empathize with you, really. I've got two kids in college myself, and questions about a full, in-person return have been plaguing my thoughts for weeks now. The best I've been able to wrangle it is to keep the long view in mind. In the short term there will be inconveniences, annoyances, missed opportunities, and even legitimate hardships. But those really are nothing when weighed against not even having a long term for a lot of people if we keep rushing back to some fever dream mirage of normalcy.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying to find the best ways forward, but we have to keep in mind what we're weighing our options against. Or more accurately, who we are weighing our options against. Because for a lot of the people in power, the ones making these decisions, it is not other people like themselves that are most at risk. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases I think that informs their decision making more than anything else other than simple profit-chasing.
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 3:50 PM on June 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying to find the best ways forward, but we have to keep in mind what we're weighing our options against. Or more accurately, who we are weighing our options against. Because for a lot of the people in power, the ones making these decisions, it is not other people like themselves that are most at risk. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases I think that informs their decision making more than anything else other than simple profit-chasing.
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 3:50 PM on June 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
It's a powerful piece of interactive fiction.
I like how it neatly evokes the many ways the fall could go wrong for campuses trying to hold in-person class.
Looking forward to what my students make of it.
posted by doctornemo at 4:53 PM on June 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
I like how it neatly evokes the many ways the fall could go wrong for campuses trying to hold in-person class.
Looking forward to what my students make of it.
posted by doctornemo at 4:53 PM on June 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
I mean the administrators collectively making the decision that we must feed moloch.
In some cases, yes, Moloch. Not in others.
A significant number of colleges and universities are staring into the abyss this fall. A good chunk have been on the knife edge since 2012 (when total US enrollment started going down, and it became clear many states didn't want to return to pre-2008 funding levels for public universities). A new enrollment plunge could take some of these campuses right out.
(They could just close down, like College of New Rochelle. They could "merge" - which really means "get absorbed by a healthier institution." Or states could push mergers of public institutions.)
Now, you could see senior campus leaders making such decisions to try to keep their doors open as appeasing Moloch. Perhaps you know Tressie Cottom's fiery assertion: "It is better for institutions to die than for people to die and it is unconscionable that anyone in a position of authority should suggest otherwise."
But I think viewing the rationale as just greed misses a good bit of reality.
PS: I am not advocating opening this fall.
posted by doctornemo at 5:15 PM on June 18, 2020 [9 favorites]
In some cases, yes, Moloch. Not in others.
A significant number of colleges and universities are staring into the abyss this fall. A good chunk have been on the knife edge since 2012 (when total US enrollment started going down, and it became clear many states didn't want to return to pre-2008 funding levels for public universities). A new enrollment plunge could take some of these campuses right out.
(They could just close down, like College of New Rochelle. They could "merge" - which really means "get absorbed by a healthier institution." Or states could push mergers of public institutions.)
Now, you could see senior campus leaders making such decisions to try to keep their doors open as appeasing Moloch. Perhaps you know Tressie Cottom's fiery assertion: "It is better for institutions to die than for people to die and it is unconscionable that anyone in a position of authority should suggest otherwise."
But I think viewing the rationale as just greed misses a good bit of reality.
PS: I am not advocating opening this fall.
posted by doctornemo at 5:15 PM on June 18, 2020 [9 favorites]
Going through the CYOA made me nauseous with anxiety.
I teach in a culinary program at a community college. Our students are predominately POC, low-income, &/or marginalized in other ways. Career Technical Education (such as nursing, automotive, firefighting, culinary, etc) is heavily dependent on hands-on experience. Note that these programs produce essential workers.
Our college has tentatively said we can consider offering some version of in-person labs but it is our department’s responsibility to create our own safety plan, which then has to pass through administrative and legal review.
In theory, this is Summer break, but in reality, every day my colleagues and I are wrestling with how we are going to responsibly serve our students. Many of whom have been struggling since the shutdown with issues of anxiety, depression, financial pressures, shelter, etc. Some are leaving school, but others are passionate about staying and want to continue their education.
We are assuming it will be a hybrid approach so we can maintain social distance. This may mean I can only work with 3-4 students per day, so I’ll need to rotate them in and out each week. Meanwhile, how can I keep students engaged when many of them don’t thrive in a traditional academic format of lectures and lots of assigned reading?
This doesn’t even touch on the complexities of how to physically move in our kitchens, share equipment, or taste food for seasoning.
Our students are already highly trained in sanitation and safety, yet it is still fraught. Teaching them proper procedures in light of covid will actually make them safer in the long run and it is now necessary for them to know this information to work in their field.
For us, shutting down isn’t an easy/obvious choice. I absolutely do not want to put our students at more risk, yet they need to have their autonomy and make their choices. I don’t particularly want to go back, but I absolutely want to serve and support my students to the best of my ability.
As we plan, we are assuming that policies and recommendations will continue to change nearly daily. Despite this, we are trying to think through every scenario and possibility with our first priority being the safety and health of everyone.
TLDR: It is unbelievably complex. There are no easy answers.
posted by jenquat at 6:02 PM on June 18, 2020 [10 favorites]
I teach in a culinary program at a community college. Our students are predominately POC, low-income, &/or marginalized in other ways. Career Technical Education (such as nursing, automotive, firefighting, culinary, etc) is heavily dependent on hands-on experience. Note that these programs produce essential workers.
Our college has tentatively said we can consider offering some version of in-person labs but it is our department’s responsibility to create our own safety plan, which then has to pass through administrative and legal review.
In theory, this is Summer break, but in reality, every day my colleagues and I are wrestling with how we are going to responsibly serve our students. Many of whom have been struggling since the shutdown with issues of anxiety, depression, financial pressures, shelter, etc. Some are leaving school, but others are passionate about staying and want to continue their education.
We are assuming it will be a hybrid approach so we can maintain social distance. This may mean I can only work with 3-4 students per day, so I’ll need to rotate them in and out each week. Meanwhile, how can I keep students engaged when many of them don’t thrive in a traditional academic format of lectures and lots of assigned reading?
This doesn’t even touch on the complexities of how to physically move in our kitchens, share equipment, or taste food for seasoning.
Our students are already highly trained in sanitation and safety, yet it is still fraught. Teaching them proper procedures in light of covid will actually make them safer in the long run and it is now necessary for them to know this information to work in their field.
For us, shutting down isn’t an easy/obvious choice. I absolutely do not want to put our students at more risk, yet they need to have their autonomy and make their choices. I don’t particularly want to go back, but I absolutely want to serve and support my students to the best of my ability.
As we plan, we are assuming that policies and recommendations will continue to change nearly daily. Despite this, we are trying to think through every scenario and possibility with our first priority being the safety and health of everyone.
TLDR: It is unbelievably complex. There are no easy answers.
posted by jenquat at 6:02 PM on June 18, 2020 [10 favorites]
This game’s great. I played it the other day, and it seems to do a fine job of capturing the realities of COVID-19 at the apex of challenge. I feel like it’s the sort of thing for which Twine is so good. If anyone’s looking to do similar, I think we could use a similar game, but horror, all about a student regularly choosing between indifference or malice/contempt toward fellow university community members, as that’s sure going to be a thing too.
Not too much else to add that hasn’t been said above, other than that what I am seeing so far (in U.S. + higher ed) does not seem to support widespread mandatory testing at this time. Mandatory self-reporting, sure, but not testing, based on what I’m seeing at work and what I hear from colleagues elsewhere. There is not will or culture for that here yet. I think we’ll have to go through more rounds of shutdowns AND everyone knowing someone who’s had it before we begin to approach South Korean levels of unified response.
jenquat is correct about the complexity. The switch in mode of instruction delivery alone (to online, hybrid, or distanced f2f) is a logistical pickle, and a major cultural hurdle. The patience and goodwill we all had (-ish) in spring has waned, and now the traditionally quiet (and for many, off-contract) time is extra work plus more pandemic. Going to be a long year.
posted by cupcakeninja at 6:33 PM on June 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Not too much else to add that hasn’t been said above, other than that what I am seeing so far (in U.S. + higher ed) does not seem to support widespread mandatory testing at this time. Mandatory self-reporting, sure, but not testing, based on what I’m seeing at work and what I hear from colleagues elsewhere. There is not will or culture for that here yet. I think we’ll have to go through more rounds of shutdowns AND everyone knowing someone who’s had it before we begin to approach South Korean levels of unified response.
jenquat is correct about the complexity. The switch in mode of instruction delivery alone (to online, hybrid, or distanced f2f) is a logistical pickle, and a major cultural hurdle. The patience and goodwill we all had (-ish) in spring has waned, and now the traditionally quiet (and for many, off-contract) time is extra work plus more pandemic. Going to be a long year.
posted by cupcakeninja at 6:33 PM on June 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
The best I've been able to wrangle it is to keep the long view in mind. In the short term there will be inconveniences, annoyances, missed opportunities, and even legitimate hardships. But those really are nothing when weighed against not even having a long term for a lot of people if we keep rushing back to some fever dream mirage of normalcy.
I agree with this. When death is this close, cheap and easy to find when you breathe around another human, I will sacrifice everything that kept me sane and happy in order to not die in agony on a ventilator, or kill anyone else because I had to go outside for my own sanity or whatever.
I don't see online classes as being an adequate replacement for the college experience (certainly not at full price), and I don't see how young people can just stay alone with their families for months or years more without it crushing them.
Yeah, but see above. Even if people all go back to campus, they will NOT be able to have "the college experience." You're not going to be able to go out and play sports and hang out at the bars and go to the literary society meeting and the frat party that night. You really shouldn't be hanging out with your friends. You physically shouldn't be getting NEAR your friends or classmates. It's not going to be "typical" just because you come back. It's going to be constant thinking about how you are encountering potential virus everywhere you go (don't hold the elevator for your dormmate!) and still not being able to do a lot of what you normally would want to be doing. It's going to be a lot of escalated danger, still not having much fun, for a possibly better educational experience for a few days or weeks until a huge outbreak happens on campus. It's a matter of time before that happens on all of them.
Frankly, even if people are sad, lonely, depressed, and trapped at home with their parents for years, that's still better than catching a disease and bringing it home and everyone being at risk of death.
It seems that diligent and universal mask-wearing would really work, but I also know the realities of college life.
Pretty much nobody in America is going to do that, though.
I fear that saying "masks only save other people, not you!" is another marketing fail, even if it's true. If people thought masks would save themselves instead of others, I think they would actually be interested in wearing them. If it saves others? Fuck you, I got my trip to the bar!
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:50 PM on June 18, 2020 [7 favorites]
I agree with this. When death is this close, cheap and easy to find when you breathe around another human, I will sacrifice everything that kept me sane and happy in order to not die in agony on a ventilator, or kill anyone else because I had to go outside for my own sanity or whatever.
I don't see online classes as being an adequate replacement for the college experience (certainly not at full price), and I don't see how young people can just stay alone with their families for months or years more without it crushing them.
Yeah, but see above. Even if people all go back to campus, they will NOT be able to have "the college experience." You're not going to be able to go out and play sports and hang out at the bars and go to the literary society meeting and the frat party that night. You really shouldn't be hanging out with your friends. You physically shouldn't be getting NEAR your friends or classmates. It's not going to be "typical" just because you come back. It's going to be constant thinking about how you are encountering potential virus everywhere you go (don't hold the elevator for your dormmate!) and still not being able to do a lot of what you normally would want to be doing. It's going to be a lot of escalated danger, still not having much fun, for a possibly better educational experience for a few days or weeks until a huge outbreak happens on campus. It's a matter of time before that happens on all of them.
Frankly, even if people are sad, lonely, depressed, and trapped at home with their parents for years, that's still better than catching a disease and bringing it home and everyone being at risk of death.
It seems that diligent and universal mask-wearing would really work, but I also know the realities of college life.
Pretty much nobody in America is going to do that, though.
I fear that saying "masks only save other people, not you!" is another marketing fail, even if it's true. If people thought masks would save themselves instead of others, I think they would actually be interested in wearing them. If it saves others? Fuck you, I got my trip to the bar!
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:50 PM on June 18, 2020 [7 favorites]
Now, you could see senior campus leaders making such decisions to try to keep their doors open as appeasing Moloch.
I do. People are prior to and more important than institutions. Institutions are for the service of people, not the other way around.
posted by PMdixon at 7:18 PM on June 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
I do. People are prior to and more important than institutions. Institutions are for the service of people, not the other way around.
posted by PMdixon at 7:18 PM on June 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Like I think to even offer up the proposition "it is worth X deaths for institution Y to attempt to continue to exist as it has and most likely fail anyway" is monstrous.
posted by PMdixon at 7:21 PM on June 18, 2020
posted by PMdixon at 7:21 PM on June 18, 2020
Again, I am far from a re-opener at this stage. But if the only solution is that everyone has to stay at home (except grocery store and health care workers?) for YEARS, that's just not going to work. Not everyone can work from home, and the government is going to cut off income assistance. Shutdown can only be a temporary measure unless you are incredibly privileged. And the best people to lead the way in the US (the CDC) have been gutted and politically sidelined. I want to hope that there's a better solution than either A) reopen things and just let people die or B) keep everything closed and everyone separate until there's a magic pill. Teenagers tend to take a lot of risks, and once they're 18 they are legally allowed to. Parents can't necessarily stop them.
posted by rikschell at 7:33 PM on June 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by rikschell at 7:33 PM on June 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Again, I am far from a re-opener at this stage. But if the only solution is that everyone has to stay at home (except grocery store and health care workers?) for YEARS, that's just not going to work
You're right. Which means we need new institutions to manage that if we want to minimize the number of bodies, because all of our current ones rely heavily on the idea that in person interaction is cheap. We will not get those new institutions if we keep pretending that the only alternative to starving in our houses is to engage in some grotesque pantomime of normalcy that we all know simultaneously will not work to restore normalcy and will just about maximize the number of deaths.
posted by PMdixon at 7:36 PM on June 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
You're right. Which means we need new institutions to manage that if we want to minimize the number of bodies, because all of our current ones rely heavily on the idea that in person interaction is cheap. We will not get those new institutions if we keep pretending that the only alternative to starving in our houses is to engage in some grotesque pantomime of normalcy that we all know simultaneously will not work to restore normalcy and will just about maximize the number of deaths.
posted by PMdixon at 7:36 PM on June 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
Might as well say "sure there was cholera in that well but what did John Snow want people to do die of thirst?"
posted by PMdixon at 7:40 PM on June 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by PMdixon at 7:40 PM on June 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
I am not personally a fan of In-Person Autumn, but I think it’s unrealistic to talk about institutions of higher education as if they were entities beholden to and serving citizens. In the U.S., at least, they’ve been infested by corporate thinking and organizational models for a long time, and many of the public ones have been defunded to the extent that they only survive on private money. They have to compete for survival in the best of times. These are not the best of times, and not one of them will simply say “uh-oh, it’s immoral to open, we’re just going to have to close permanently.”
posted by cupcakeninja at 2:18 AM on June 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by cupcakeninja at 2:18 AM on June 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
These are not the best of times, and not one of them will simply say “uh-oh, it’s immoral to open, we’re just going to have to close permanently.”
The fact that there are reasons for that fact does not mean it's not immoral. The fact that the priesthood of Moloch runs the country does not change the nature of the sacrifice. We should not treat this as an understandable thing to do. We should treat this as a crime against humanity that will never be brought to justice.
posted by PMdixon at 5:09 AM on June 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
The fact that there are reasons for that fact does not mean it's not immoral. The fact that the priesthood of Moloch runs the country does not change the nature of the sacrifice. We should not treat this as an understandable thing to do. We should treat this as a crime against humanity that will never be brought to justice.
posted by PMdixon at 5:09 AM on June 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
And here’s the thing, the supposed purpose of college -educating people -is something that can be done safely and effectively online and has been for years now. It is not something that is reliant on in person contact, like grocery stores or pro sports. People get whole legitimate advanced degrees online now. Some people moan about how it’s not as good as in person - which is maybe true in some cases but taking a couple of semesters or years of classes of varying quality online is not going to kill anyone. Insisting on in person classes most certainly will and it’s weird so many people are a-okay with that.
Do I feel bad for the kids who wanted the “real college experience” and aren’t getting it? Yes, absolutely, but like someone said upthread they aren’t going to get it anyway.
posted by Brain Sturgeon at 6:23 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
Do I feel bad for the kids who wanted the “real college experience” and aren’t getting it? Yes, absolutely, but like someone said upthread they aren’t going to get it anyway.
posted by Brain Sturgeon at 6:23 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
It seems that diligent and universal mask-wearing would really work, but I also know the realities of college life.
Pretty much nobody in America is going to do that, though.
I think people who aren't immersed in this right now should look to those who are. My daughter's university is planning on a hybrid approach, and those who aren't comfortable, for any reason, coming to in-person classes will be accommodated fully with online options. That doesn't mean getting shunted off to some other section taught by a TA, it means the professor of the class will be required to provide meaningful instruction to both the students in person and the students online. Students will be required to wear masks in all university buildings, including dorms, and may only remove masks in the dorms in their own rooms and in the showers. There will be consequences for not adhering to mask policy, up to and including expulsion.
Talking with the parents of my daughter's high school friends, each school is doing something similar, and taking steps to spread the students out. Emerson College in Boston is de-densifying the dorms by contracting with hotels in walking distance; so is Boston University. My daughter's school is requiring that juniors and seniors move off campus (with the university's help, if they hadn't planned on doing so) to make more room for the underclassmen. They're going to be using spaces for classrooms that aren't usually used as such; the gym, the student union, the theatre; by using these large spaces, they can space students in larger class sections apart.
And no, this is not going to be a normal college experience. Students are going to have to come to terms with that. No sports, no clubs, no gathering in the dorm common room.
posted by cooker girl at 7:57 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
Pretty much nobody in America is going to do that, though.
I think people who aren't immersed in this right now should look to those who are. My daughter's university is planning on a hybrid approach, and those who aren't comfortable, for any reason, coming to in-person classes will be accommodated fully with online options. That doesn't mean getting shunted off to some other section taught by a TA, it means the professor of the class will be required to provide meaningful instruction to both the students in person and the students online. Students will be required to wear masks in all university buildings, including dorms, and may only remove masks in the dorms in their own rooms and in the showers. There will be consequences for not adhering to mask policy, up to and including expulsion.
Talking with the parents of my daughter's high school friends, each school is doing something similar, and taking steps to spread the students out. Emerson College in Boston is de-densifying the dorms by contracting with hotels in walking distance; so is Boston University. My daughter's school is requiring that juniors and seniors move off campus (with the university's help, if they hadn't planned on doing so) to make more room for the underclassmen. They're going to be using spaces for classrooms that aren't usually used as such; the gym, the student union, the theatre; by using these large spaces, they can space students in larger class sections apart.
And no, this is not going to be a normal college experience. Students are going to have to come to terms with that. No sports, no clubs, no gathering in the dorm common room.
posted by cooker girl at 7:57 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I think to even offer up the proposition "it is worth X deaths for institution Y to attempt to continue to exist as it has and most likely fail anyway" is monstrous.
I understand. Hence my citing Cottom's tweet.
I've been in these conversations. Leaders will cite the deaths statistically associated with higher ed. Think of the stupid frat deaths, for example. Deaths from exposure in the north country (abetted by alcohol; I learned of two of these in Vermont in a few years). Suicides. Deaths from misadventure. Murder.
In terms of infection, college students are traditional vectors for a range of diseases, including the flu and multiple STDs.
The point of this, according to those I spoke with, is not that these deaths are fine. Quite the opposite, as academic institutions take various steps to reduce them. Think of what was standard before COVID-19: public health measures, on-campus health care, residence life programs, speakers, various forms of surveilling Greek life, supporting non-lethal campus activities, etc. etc. All of these are checked by regulations, boards, lawsuits, and the enrollment market. And yet deaths did and do occur, both on campus and off-.
Or think of it in terms of basic community life. If you have several hundred, several thousand, tens or hundreds of thousands of people physically colocated (with varying degrees of residential stay), engaged together on a shared purpose, there are many ways for people to die, statistically. Everything I mentioned above (exposure, suicide, STD) can occur in an intentional community, an encampment, a business.
So - and again, I'm reporting here, or ventriloquizing, not offering my own take - the idea that we should close a campus (or any other enterprise) because of a single death is something of a fiction. People will die when they are together in sufficient numbers over time. The task is to prevent this from happening, or to reduce it. Hence all kinds of measures.
PS: we're talking about deaths. I'm flabbergasted that so few people in academia or the world at large won't discuss the injuries COVID-19 inflicts. We're going to see those for years, decades.
posted by doctornemo at 8:14 AM on June 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
I understand. Hence my citing Cottom's tweet.
I've been in these conversations. Leaders will cite the deaths statistically associated with higher ed. Think of the stupid frat deaths, for example. Deaths from exposure in the north country (abetted by alcohol; I learned of two of these in Vermont in a few years). Suicides. Deaths from misadventure. Murder.
In terms of infection, college students are traditional vectors for a range of diseases, including the flu and multiple STDs.
The point of this, according to those I spoke with, is not that these deaths are fine. Quite the opposite, as academic institutions take various steps to reduce them. Think of what was standard before COVID-19: public health measures, on-campus health care, residence life programs, speakers, various forms of surveilling Greek life, supporting non-lethal campus activities, etc. etc. All of these are checked by regulations, boards, lawsuits, and the enrollment market. And yet deaths did and do occur, both on campus and off-.
Or think of it in terms of basic community life. If you have several hundred, several thousand, tens or hundreds of thousands of people physically colocated (with varying degrees of residential stay), engaged together on a shared purpose, there are many ways for people to die, statistically. Everything I mentioned above (exposure, suicide, STD) can occur in an intentional community, an encampment, a business.
So - and again, I'm reporting here, or ventriloquizing, not offering my own take - the idea that we should close a campus (or any other enterprise) because of a single death is something of a fiction. People will die when they are together in sufficient numbers over time. The task is to prevent this from happening, or to reduce it. Hence all kinds of measures.
PS: we're talking about deaths. I'm flabbergasted that so few people in academia or the world at large won't discuss the injuries COVID-19 inflicts. We're going to see those for years, decades.
posted by doctornemo at 8:14 AM on June 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
My sole part-time employee is a college student whose school is going to have in-person classes this fall. Their rationale, apparently, is that they're a tiny school (under 1000 students), they're ensuring that everyone who lives on-campus has a single, requiring masks & distancing, reducing class sizes, etc. She seems okay with this, but she also caught COVID there back in March! So she might not be worried about re-infection, but there's already plenty of evidence that they won't be able to keep their students safe.
I can't help but doubt that she'll finish out the semester there, let alone the year.
posted by nonasuch at 8:43 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I can't help but doubt that she'll finish out the semester there, let alone the year.
posted by nonasuch at 8:43 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
My only quibble with this was the gameplay, and how one tiny element of it didn't quite match what I'd imagine the reality would be like - it felt like the different traits of the character I was playing weren't divulged to me until after I'd already made a choice. Like, I didn't learn that I was a wheelchair user until after I'd already gotten on the elevator. Or I didn't learn that I was using medication to control anxiety until after I'd already made a choice about a situation that triggered that anxiety. I couldn't help feeling like those were all "gotchas" that the game was throwing in so that I'd lose, and that if I'd only known about those situations I'd have made different choices.
Also, these are all things that I doubt people who actually do take meds or use wheelchairs would "forget" about, so this didn't ring quite true.
I grant that this is a totally separate issue from the case of actual students trying to cope with re-opening. This game, I'm assuming, is meant to place the layman into their shoes, and I'm suspecting that these kinds of "gotchas" are meant to wake the layman up; my fear is that they may just piss the layman off and the message may not get through.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:56 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also, these are all things that I doubt people who actually do take meds or use wheelchairs would "forget" about, so this didn't ring quite true.
I grant that this is a totally separate issue from the case of actual students trying to cope with re-opening. This game, I'm assuming, is meant to place the layman into their shoes, and I'm suspecting that these kinds of "gotchas" are meant to wake the layman up; my fear is that they may just piss the layman off and the message may not get through.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:56 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I want to hope that there's a better solution than either A) reopen things and just let people die or B) keep everything closed and everyone separate until there's a magic pill.
Well, this would be the middle option, but that would require a whole lot of technology and cooperation that we straight up don't have at all yet. And the way we're going, I am having doubts that we will ever?
Or I didn't learn that I was using medication to control anxiety until after I'd already made a choice about a situation that triggered that anxiety. I couldn't help feeling like those were all "gotchas" that the game was throwing in so that I'd lose, and that if I'd only known about those situations I'd have made different choices.
I think the point of the game is that you are going to lose anyway no matter what you do. I ran through it again and the decision tree wasn't super varied, as it turns out. Also, it's virusland, you're going to have your anxiety triggered no matter what here as long as a disabled, trans, POC student with anxiety is forced to leave their home and go to classes every day in person.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:31 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
Well, this would be the middle option, but that would require a whole lot of technology and cooperation that we straight up don't have at all yet. And the way we're going, I am having doubts that we will ever?
Or I didn't learn that I was using medication to control anxiety until after I'd already made a choice about a situation that triggered that anxiety. I couldn't help feeling like those were all "gotchas" that the game was throwing in so that I'd lose, and that if I'd only known about those situations I'd have made different choices.
I think the point of the game is that you are going to lose anyway no matter what you do. I ran through it again and the decision tree wasn't super varied, as it turns out. Also, it's virusland, you're going to have your anxiety triggered no matter what here as long as a disabled, trans, POC student with anxiety is forced to leave their home and go to classes every day in person.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:31 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also, these are all things that I doubt people who actually do take meds or use wheelchairs would "forget" about, so this didn't ring quite true.
As someone who has anxiety that I manage in part with meds, let me assure you that in times of heightened stress and especially in different environments it is very common to experience a disruption of the rituals I have developed to make sure my meds get in me when I need them. I'm not magically good at organizing when it comes to meds in a way that I'm not when it comes to the rest of my life. Maintaining access to my coping mechanisms including my meds is a learned skill that is in practice extremely reliant on environmental cues. The number of times I have had to leave some event I traveled to for work because I left my 1030 pill at the hotel and because I'm not at my desk I don't have the bottle in a drawer 18 inches from my knee is a large number. It's not free or automatic, I promise.
posted by PMdixon at 10:30 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
As someone who has anxiety that I manage in part with meds, let me assure you that in times of heightened stress and especially in different environments it is very common to experience a disruption of the rituals I have developed to make sure my meds get in me when I need them. I'm not magically good at organizing when it comes to meds in a way that I'm not when it comes to the rest of my life. Maintaining access to my coping mechanisms including my meds is a learned skill that is in practice extremely reliant on environmental cues. The number of times I have had to leave some event I traveled to for work because I left my 1030 pill at the hotel and because I'm not at my desk I don't have the bottle in a drawer 18 inches from my knee is a large number. It's not free or automatic, I promise.
posted by PMdixon at 10:30 AM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm glad to hear that some of the larger institutions are putting detailed plans in place. I have doubts about how effective they'll be at enforcing social distancing if enough of the students themselves aren't cooperative, but at least they're trying.
But the small institution where my spouse teaches isn't planning to do any of this (as of now, anyway). They're leaving classroom mask policies up to individual professors. They're opening the dining hall where students normally congregate 8 to a table. They're opening the gym. They don't have space to make more room in classrooms or dorms. They're actually still discussing whether they can restart sports.
I personally find it a very unethical way to engage with our local community as I feel a case supercluster is basically inevitable. I'm also not happy that it seems my spouse will inevitably be exposed as well, and by extension likely me and our kid.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 10:50 AM on June 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
But the small institution where my spouse teaches isn't planning to do any of this (as of now, anyway). They're leaving classroom mask policies up to individual professors. They're opening the dining hall where students normally congregate 8 to a table. They're opening the gym. They don't have space to make more room in classrooms or dorms. They're actually still discussing whether they can restart sports.
I personally find it a very unethical way to engage with our local community as I feel a case supercluster is basically inevitable. I'm also not happy that it seems my spouse will inevitably be exposed as well, and by extension likely me and our kid.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 10:50 AM on June 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
Nonasuch, that sound like a not-terrible plan, but so much depends on enforcement and student buy-in, of course.
Jenfullmoon, it's nice to know that a "lockdown-lite" could work, even if the powers that be refuse to facilitate such a thing. College campuses (at least some of them) might be great places to test such a model if there's enough access control and will from the administration.
I know we'd have a shot at a better system if we just let higher ed completely fail and could start over. There's also a good chance it would be rebuilt considerably worse. It sounds like there are a lot of things that are going to be tried this fall, and while I don't love the idea of my child as a guinea pig, there are never sure things in parenting. I'm more concerned about professors who are more likely to suffer bad effects if they catch the virus. Maybe if we can manage to get an adult as president we can slowly get back on track starting next year, but it's grueling to worry so much about so many things every day and to feel so stuck and isolated.
posted by rikschell at 12:09 PM on June 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Jenfullmoon, it's nice to know that a "lockdown-lite" could work, even if the powers that be refuse to facilitate such a thing. College campuses (at least some of them) might be great places to test such a model if there's enough access control and will from the administration.
I know we'd have a shot at a better system if we just let higher ed completely fail and could start over. There's also a good chance it would be rebuilt considerably worse. It sounds like there are a lot of things that are going to be tried this fall, and while I don't love the idea of my child as a guinea pig, there are never sure things in parenting. I'm more concerned about professors who are more likely to suffer bad effects if they catch the virus. Maybe if we can manage to get an adult as president we can slowly get back on track starting next year, but it's grueling to worry so much about so many things every day and to feel so stuck and isolated.
posted by rikschell at 12:09 PM on June 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Jenfullmoon, it's nice to know that a "lockdown-lite" could work, even if the powers that be refuse to facilitate such a thing. College campuses (at least some of them) might be great places to test such a model if there's enough access control and will from the administration.
And money. Especially that one. About the one school I've heard that is actually working on this is UC San Diego, so good for them. I know my alma mater is reporting on how much they are working on tests and vaccines, but beyond that with regards to distributing those to students, I don't know. I was told that they won't be paying for wipes or masks for anyone, so....
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:45 PM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
And money. Especially that one. About the one school I've heard that is actually working on this is UC San Diego, so good for them. I know my alma mater is reporting on how much they are working on tests and vaccines, but beyond that with regards to distributing those to students, I don't know. I was told that they won't be paying for wipes or masks for anyone, so....
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:45 PM on June 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
the supposed purpose of college -educating people -is something that can be done safely and effectively online and has been for years now.
higher in the thread:
I teach in a culinary program at a community college. Our students are predominately POC, low-income, &/or marginalized in other ways. Career Technical Education (such as nursing, automotive, firefighting, culinary, etc) is heavily dependent on hands-on experience. Note that these programs produce essential workers.[...]
This doesn’t even touch on the complexities of how to physically move in our kitchens, share equipment, or taste food for seasoning.
Calc 1 can be moved online, I guess, although online math problems are notorious for saying "you entered X+1, the actual answer is x+1, zero points!" There are so many other classes that either benefit from being in person- discussions where some students don't want a permanent text record of what they say- or absolutely require being in person, like teaching nursing students how to draw blood. Online is good enough, sometimes, but it is absolutely NOT the same thing as an in person class at the current shape of society and level of technology we have.
Additionally, most universities in the United States have had constant cuts for a generation or more and the people behind those cuts are threatening to permanently shut down every school that doesn't open. There is a version of this year where we end up having no public higher education in oklahoma or alabama for a decade.
posted by fomhar at 2:28 PM on June 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
higher in the thread:
I teach in a culinary program at a community college. Our students are predominately POC, low-income, &/or marginalized in other ways. Career Technical Education (such as nursing, automotive, firefighting, culinary, etc) is heavily dependent on hands-on experience. Note that these programs produce essential workers.[...]
This doesn’t even touch on the complexities of how to physically move in our kitchens, share equipment, or taste food for seasoning.
Calc 1 can be moved online, I guess, although online math problems are notorious for saying "you entered X+1, the actual answer is x+1, zero points!" There are so many other classes that either benefit from being in person- discussions where some students don't want a permanent text record of what they say- or absolutely require being in person, like teaching nursing students how to draw blood. Online is good enough, sometimes, but it is absolutely NOT the same thing as an in person class at the current shape of society and level of technology we have.
Additionally, most universities in the United States have had constant cuts for a generation or more and the people behind those cuts are threatening to permanently shut down every school that doesn't open. There is a version of this year where we end up having no public higher education in oklahoma or alabama for a decade.
posted by fomhar at 2:28 PM on June 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
There are so many other classes that either benefit from being in person- discussions where some students don't want a permanent text record of what they say- or absolutely require being in person, like teaching nursing students how to draw blood. Online is good enough, sometimes, but it is absolutely NOT the same thing as an in person class at the current shape of society and level of technology we have.
Yeah, but if the options are "can't learn it at all whatsoever, for at least the next two years if we're lucky," "come up with the best online equivalent we can but it won't be good enough as in person," and "easily catch COVID from your classmates while in in person class and you won't be learning in class for very long if that happens," what should we be picking? Seriously, they're trying to do golf right now (not a super in person sport) and didn't somebody just come down with it there? It seems like anyone who's going ahead with in person is coming down with it, period.
I think we all know online isn't "good enough" in a lot of cases, but again, the options aren't great. I'd pick substandard education or missing out on in-person (whatever) classes for a few years over coming down with something that may kill or permanently disable me.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:54 PM on June 21, 2020
Yeah, but if the options are "can't learn it at all whatsoever, for at least the next two years if we're lucky," "come up with the best online equivalent we can but it won't be good enough as in person," and "easily catch COVID from your classmates while in in person class and you won't be learning in class for very long if that happens," what should we be picking? Seriously, they're trying to do golf right now (not a super in person sport) and didn't somebody just come down with it there? It seems like anyone who's going ahead with in person is coming down with it, period.
I think we all know online isn't "good enough" in a lot of cases, but again, the options aren't great. I'd pick substandard education or missing out on in-person (whatever) classes for a few years over coming down with something that may kill or permanently disable me.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:54 PM on June 21, 2020
Looking back over the thread I like how obvious it is to everyone in this conversation that institutions like universities in practice have moral standing equal to and separate from the moral standing of the people they comprise and serve. It is very reassuring to me that the basis for my prediction that we're all monsters now remains intact.
posted by PMdixon at 5:42 AM on June 22, 2020
posted by PMdixon at 5:42 AM on June 22, 2020
« Older An insidious form of holocaust denialism | Supreme Court DACA ruling - 'HOME IS HERE' Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
This was heartbreaking to read and predicts the future.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:12 PM on June 18, 2020 [3 favorites]