Duneworld
March 27, 2023 3:23 AM Subscribe
Welcome to Monday, time travelers (wasn't it just Monday a few minutes ago?). For today's free thread, I'd like pass over a bit o' free association I had re the Wee Free Men, and ... the Fremen. And Dune and Discworld more generally. Now, I quickly got in well over my head when contemplating the possibilities of this wyrd alternative universe, but I bet Mefite fans have thoughts.
One thing I discovered that I didn't know, btw, is that Wee Free is a Thing, not just a Terry Pratchett thing (I bet you already knew this), and "A Wee Free attitude might show as a preference for being part of a smaller but ideologically sound group rather than a larger compromised one."
Anyway, Dune and Discworld mashup? Patricians and guilds and witchy women and a whole lot of wyrdness? What do you think?
One thing I discovered that I didn't know, btw, is that Wee Free is a Thing, not just a Terry Pratchett thing (I bet you already knew this), and "A Wee Free attitude might show as a preference for being part of a smaller but ideologically sound group rather than a larger compromised one."
Anyway, Dune and Discworld mashup? Patricians and guilds and witchy women and a whole lot of wyrdness? What do you think?
Yes! While I suspect the Wee Free would cause more than a little chaos in the well ordered world of the Fremen, I suspect there would be more than a passing respect for their fighting skills.
And crivens, what I wouldn’t give to see Rob Anybody, Daft Wullie, Big Yan, and the rest of the Nac Mac Feegles take on a Sandworm!
posted by Silvery Fish at 3:38 AM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
And crivens, what I wouldn’t give to see Rob Anybody, Daft Wullie, Big Yan, and the rest of the Nac Mac Feegles take on a Sandworm!
posted by Silvery Fish at 3:38 AM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Two contributions which tie into the cinematic Dune:
There's a Youtube channel I discovered run by some guys at a visual effects studio. One of the things they do is have three of their guys watch clips of current or old movies to discuss the visual effects (good and bad) and how they were made. The very first video of theirs I saw was one where they compared scenes from the 2022 Dune to the same scenes from the 1984 Dune. I learned so much, and gained a bit of respect back for David Lynch's version.
And I just found this video (somehow I missed it) - they will sometimes do videos about their own projects, or they will do videos about "fixing" certain shots in older films (updating the look of the Scorpion King in one of the Mummy films, etc.) and here's one where they played with clips of the 2022 Dune to make it look like Lynch's.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:57 AM on March 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
There's a Youtube channel I discovered run by some guys at a visual effects studio. One of the things they do is have three of their guys watch clips of current or old movies to discuss the visual effects (good and bad) and how they were made. The very first video of theirs I saw was one where they compared scenes from the 2022 Dune to the same scenes from the 1984 Dune. I learned so much, and gained a bit of respect back for David Lynch's version.
And I just found this video (somehow I missed it) - they will sometimes do videos about their own projects, or they will do videos about "fixing" certain shots in older films (updating the look of the Scorpion King in one of the Mummy films, etc.) and here's one where they played with clips of the 2022 Dune to make it look like Lynch's.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:57 AM on March 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
I also like thinking about the (Dune) empire's Bene Gesserite sisterhood, and Arrakis' Fremin Sayyadina vs the (Discworld) kingdom's Wyrd Sisters, and the Nac Mac Feegles' Kelda.
One quote I love about the Nac Mac Feegles: "They comically fear witches who know about them, with large amounts of dread being reserved for 'the Foldin' o' the Arms', 'the Pursin' o' the Lips', and the 'Tappin' o' the Feets', followed by 'the Explainin'. One witch nearly panics them when she harangues them in their own dialect, which they called 'the knowin' o' the speakin'."
posted by taz at 4:02 AM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
One quote I love about the Nac Mac Feegles: "They comically fear witches who know about them, with large amounts of dread being reserved for 'the Foldin' o' the Arms', 'the Pursin' o' the Lips', and the 'Tappin' o' the Feets', followed by 'the Explainin'. One witch nearly panics them when she harangues them in their own dialect, which they called 'the knowin' o' the speakin'."
posted by taz at 4:02 AM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Free thread means I can throw in a stand-alone post with no connection to anything above or below, right? Maybe recommend a fantastic piece of music I've just discovered? Right? Good.
Sleepy LaBeef's Just Pickin' (Live)
posted by Paul Slade at 5:59 AM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Sleepy LaBeef's Just Pickin' (Live)
posted by Paul Slade at 5:59 AM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Discworld is probably one of the few fictional universes that I wouldn't mind being randomly dropped into. Long ago I realized that I'd be just another redshirt in Star Trek or just some nameless victim of the Death Star in Star Wars. Or just a statistic hidden inside of a statistic briefly mentioned in a footnote in Dune.
Although the Disc isn't short of terrible things happening to people, there's also an innate goodness to the universe which is very comforting. Also it's very normal. People are living normal lives despite all the high fantasy they're surrounded by. I'd probably have a job calibrating wizard staffs or something.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:07 AM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Although the Disc isn't short of terrible things happening to people, there's also an innate goodness to the universe which is very comforting. Also it's very normal. People are living normal lives despite all the high fantasy they're surrounded by. I'd probably have a job calibrating wizard staffs or something.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:07 AM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Psst, come discuss the Discworld on FanFare! Navelgazer has kindly been posting/hosting the revived Terry Pratchett /Discworld Book Club!
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:17 AM on March 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:17 AM on March 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
Paul Slade, yes, exactly! Free thread means you post freely, often* abbreviated as U.P. Freely!
* as in "never"
posted by taz at 6:30 AM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
* as in "never"
posted by taz at 6:30 AM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Feels to me like The Luggage could evolve, pokemon-like, into a Sandworm. (Or maybe vice versa?)
--
A victory: I have been experimenting with sewing. For the first time in my life, I actually made half a dozen practice items just to try out techniques -- instead of throwing myself into a huge project and flopping -- and it seems to have worked! I bought felt and bulk zipper, and made a double-thickness laptop sleeve for my son. I showed it to my wife last night and she just asked, "You did that? By hand?"....which I am choosing to hear as a compliment. :7)
A setback: Of course, I previously spent an hour crouched in the back yard next to my trailer that morning, fruitlessly crimping wires over and over, only to have the cheap connectors fall right off. I gave up, slapped on some Wagos (blessed be their name), and taped it all up. I should have thrown the damn connectors & crimper right into the garbage, but no doubt I will try them again next time, Proverbs 26:11-style. *sigh*
posted by wenestvedt at 6:40 AM on March 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
--
A victory: I have been experimenting with sewing. For the first time in my life, I actually made half a dozen practice items just to try out techniques -- instead of throwing myself into a huge project and flopping -- and it seems to have worked! I bought felt and bulk zipper, and made a double-thickness laptop sleeve for my son. I showed it to my wife last night and she just asked, "You did that? By hand?"....which I am choosing to hear as a compliment. :7)
A setback: Of course, I previously spent an hour crouched in the back yard next to my trailer that morning, fruitlessly crimping wires over and over, only to have the cheap connectors fall right off. I gave up, slapped on some Wagos (blessed be their name), and taped it all up. I should have thrown the damn connectors & crimper right into the garbage, but no doubt I will try them again next time, Proverbs 26:11-style. *sigh*
posted by wenestvedt at 6:40 AM on March 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
From someone on Mastodon: it's a myth that humans have a bad sense of smell compared to other animals.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 6:46 AM on March 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
Humans with intact olfactory systems can detect virtually all volatile chemicals larger than an atom or two, to the point that it has been a matter of scientific interest to document the few odorants that some people cannot smell (i.e. specific anosmias . A prominent recent study calculated that we could also tell virtually all odors apart, with an estimated ability to discriminate more than one trillion potential compounds. Though this exact number is highly sensitive to the assumptions made, it is clear that the human olfactory system is excellent at odor discrimination...So we basically can smell as well as dogs, we're just sensitive to different ranges of compounds.
One key insight in comparing the olfactory system of primates and other animals has been that different species have different sensitivities to different odorants. This is presumably due to genetic variations in odor receptor complemen, and may reflect differences in sensory environment or ecological niche.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 6:46 AM on March 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
I've been enjoying the Discworld threads on FF, as well.
One thing that's brightened up my week is getting my hands on a copy of Bea Wolf, written by Zach Weinersmith (of Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal webcomic fame) and illustrated by the French cartoonist Boulet. It's a retelling of Beowulf as a conflict between a neighborhood kid gang and the mean old man Grindle. (It starts out with "Hey, wait!" instead of "hwæt".) It's tons of fun.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:47 AM on March 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
One thing that's brightened up my week is getting my hands on a copy of Bea Wolf, written by Zach Weinersmith (of Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal webcomic fame) and illustrated by the French cartoonist Boulet. It's a retelling of Beowulf as a conflict between a neighborhood kid gang and the mean old man Grindle. (It starts out with "Hey, wait!" instead of "hwæt".) It's tons of fun.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:47 AM on March 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
I continue to wish someone would do a Total Conversion mod for the original Half-Life to so that the resonance cascade disaster at the beginning opens a portal to, not the alien dimension of Xen, but the far-future world of Arrakis, where through a subtle but key misunderstanding by the locals, your stoic POV character is taken to be Gordon Fremen, and ascends to messiah/prophet status instead of Paul.
posted by cortex at 6:49 AM on March 27, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by cortex at 6:49 AM on March 27, 2023 [9 favorites]
Feral cat colony update:
All is well. Mostly. Probably. Kind of.
The main cast of characters (Luna, Captain Midnight, The Phantom, James and Moose) are all doing well, showing up for breakfast and dinner, looking healthy. Captain Midnight is getting downright sassy when she sidles up to me at mealtimes, she's adorable.
There's a new kitty who's been showing up lately, a magnificent grey tom (I'm calling him Earl), so I've borrowed a couple of cages from the local animal care center, and hopefully I'll get him in to the vet to be neutered soon.
Flurb, the stray I took in a couple of months ago, is doing much better. Allergies under control, litterbox issues being worked through, energy levels rising steadily to the point where he's got an occasional bout of zoomies. In an effort to figure out what triggered his allergies I started him on compressed wood pellets instead of traditional cat litter, and that's working out surprisingly well.
More good news: the stray that I caught last month while trapping has gone to a good home! The rescue organization who took him in got him into a house with two other cats.
And the bad news: The stray had FeLV. Which means that all my cats, even my beloved Flurb, might have it. I'll have Flurb tested the next time I take him to the vet. In the meantime I'm not going to think about it.
Because I still haven't found a job, and being immunocompromised means I have a limited selection of jobs from which to choose, and every job I apply for has thousands of applicants, and I've got a nine-year gap on my resume which means I'm nobody's first choice, and I have no idea what to do next.
Argh.
posted by MrVisible at 7:08 AM on March 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
All is well. Mostly. Probably. Kind of.
The main cast of characters (Luna, Captain Midnight, The Phantom, James and Moose) are all doing well, showing up for breakfast and dinner, looking healthy. Captain Midnight is getting downright sassy when she sidles up to me at mealtimes, she's adorable.
There's a new kitty who's been showing up lately, a magnificent grey tom (I'm calling him Earl), so I've borrowed a couple of cages from the local animal care center, and hopefully I'll get him in to the vet to be neutered soon.
Flurb, the stray I took in a couple of months ago, is doing much better. Allergies under control, litterbox issues being worked through, energy levels rising steadily to the point where he's got an occasional bout of zoomies. In an effort to figure out what triggered his allergies I started him on compressed wood pellets instead of traditional cat litter, and that's working out surprisingly well.
More good news: the stray that I caught last month while trapping has gone to a good home! The rescue organization who took him in got him into a house with two other cats.
And the bad news: The stray had FeLV. Which means that all my cats, even my beloved Flurb, might have it. I'll have Flurb tested the next time I take him to the vet. In the meantime I'm not going to think about it.
Because I still haven't found a job, and being immunocompromised means I have a limited selection of jobs from which to choose, and every job I apply for has thousands of applicants, and I've got a nine-year gap on my resume which means I'm nobody's first choice, and I have no idea what to do next.
Argh.
posted by MrVisible at 7:08 AM on March 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
Just over 8 years ago Leonard Cohen wrote "KANYE WEST IS NOT PICASSO"
posted by elkevelvet at 7:43 AM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 7:43 AM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Looks like we narrowly missed having a Wee Free as the SNP leader. Humza won today.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 9:21 AM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 9:21 AM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I still think that Pratchett's racist stereotyping in Wee Free Men can fuck off into the sun: "Swap the Mac Feegle's kilts for prayer shawls and see how far you'd get."
posted by scruss at 9:24 AM on March 27, 2023
posted by scruss at 9:24 AM on March 27, 2023
Humza won today.
Expecting some bullshit Islamaphobic comment from Donald Trump in 3, 2, 1 ....
posted by Paul Slade at 9:29 AM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Expecting some bullshit Islamaphobic comment from Donald Trump in 3, 2, 1 ....
posted by Paul Slade at 9:29 AM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Soup for lunch today. 400ml of previously made concentrated beef pho broth (a four hour trip in the instant pot for some bones with appropriate spices/herbs). Then: a few ounces of browned beef. Some previously cooked rice. Tablespoon of chili crisp. Sliced green onion from the freezer. Few frozen basil leaves from the freezer. Few grinds of salt plus some liquid Korean soup soy sauce. Some frozen rice balls with peanut filling. A lot of assembly and heating then eating. So good though, on a rather dampish gloomy Monday.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:47 AM on March 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:47 AM on March 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
Another perspective on a favourite Discworld character, from the Twitter: Vetinari as Jeeves.
posted by e-man at 9:49 AM on March 27, 2023
posted by e-man at 9:49 AM on March 27, 2023
taz, I would like to play more of your fun game. The only thing I know about either universe is a vague memory of the trailer for the most recent Dune, and that spice and sandworms are important in it.
posted by Night_owl at 10:46 AM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Night_owl at 10:46 AM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
The older I get, the more sympathetic I feel toward Sam Vimes' grim cynicism (i.e. devastated idealism) and deep anger at the injustices in the world.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:53 AM on March 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:53 AM on March 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
Mefi friends, I need some encouragement to do A Hard Thing. I'm going to watch that Dune VFX video and then start the thing in twenty-five minutes.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 11:11 AM on March 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 11:11 AM on March 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
You guys will appreciate this:
My boss just came back from a whirlwind trip in Germany; he travels quite a bit and got into the habit of getting me little souvenirs when he does. (I'm not the only one; there's a handful of others he bestows these on. He's just a great dude.)
One of the places he went this last visit was a tour of the various castles in Bavaria...and that is why The Empress now has a little pen with a teeny-tiny bejeweled crown on one end.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:14 AM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
My boss just came back from a whirlwind trip in Germany; he travels quite a bit and got into the habit of getting me little souvenirs when he does. (I'm not the only one; there's a handful of others he bestows these on. He's just a great dude.)
One of the places he went this last visit was a tour of the various castles in Bavaria...and that is why The Empress now has a little pen with a teeny-tiny bejeweled crown on one end.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:14 AM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
that is kind of the perfect gift
you will use it a lot, and it's totally cool. I'm jalouse (that's jealous but extra)
posted by elkevelvet at 11:18 AM on March 27, 2023
you will use it a lot, and it's totally cool. I'm jalouse (that's jealous but extra)
posted by elkevelvet at 11:18 AM on March 27, 2023
Good luck with the Hard Thing, fantabulous timewaster! May it work out as well as possible and without undue struggle.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:37 AM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:37 AM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
The only thing I know about either universe is a vague memory of the trailer for the most recent Dune, and that spice and sandworms are important in it.
Don't forget the shockingly high-profile placement of plumbers
posted by FatherDagon at 12:31 PM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Don't forget the shockingly high-profile placement of plumbers
posted by FatherDagon at 12:31 PM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I confess that after reading a couple of his books Pratchett is just someone whose charms I'm apparently immune to. I have a friend who loves him and keeps insisting I've read the wrong books, but I'm convinced he'd say that no matter which ones I've read. It's my conclusion he disagrees with, not my reading choices. Even the quotes and jokes people pull out lovingly don't do much for me (other than leave me slightly jealous at how much fun you're all having.)
My opinion of Dune is mixed, but a little more complicated. I read the four (?) books available as a teenager, and liked each one less than the last--but I think I completely loved the pure SF part of it and my discontent was caused by the fact that I didn't want the lesson to be "Paul was a monster, and what he begot was monstrous." The commentary from smart people as the movie was coming out did convince me to reread at least the first one some time.
posted by mark k at 12:38 PM on March 27, 2023
My opinion of Dune is mixed, but a little more complicated. I read the four (?) books available as a teenager, and liked each one less than the last--but I think I completely loved the pure SF part of it and my discontent was caused by the fact that I didn't want the lesson to be "Paul was a monster, and what he begot was monstrous." The commentary from smart people as the movie was coming out did convince me to reread at least the first one some time.
posted by mark k at 12:38 PM on March 27, 2023
I think my biggest takeaway from the 1984 Dune was this. (In my defense, I was 13 and a cis het girl; in fact, this is one way I discovered I was cis het.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:42 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:42 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think my biggest takeaway from the 1984 Dune was this. (In my defense, I was 13 and a cis het girl; in fact, this is one way I discovered I was cis het.)
I'm sure that was a formative image for many people. As a slightly older cis het boy I had a similar epiphany.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:48 PM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm sure that was a formative image for many people. As a slightly older cis het boy I had a similar epiphany.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:48 PM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was young enough when I first saw Dune that I'm pretty sure my initial processing of a huge crush on Lady Jessica was "she has pretty hair", which, she does, so.
posted by cortex at 2:00 PM on March 27, 2023
posted by cortex at 2:00 PM on March 27, 2023
Reminder! Metafilter Events kicks off Round 2 Wednesday, when we'll be talking with Ryan North of Dinosaur Comics and various other things! Get your tickets at our Eventbrite page! Friday we're talking to Drew Curtis of Fark, and that one (if we've set it up right) should be free to attend!
posted by JHarris at 2:10 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 2:10 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm still trying to square the worship of a dictator system of government (very popular in SF, from Herbert to Heinlein to Lucas) and the millennia of eugenics and very obvious social manipulation by religious orders and the horrific white savior of local native narrative and how it all combines into something that people in 2023 somehow still revere and want to reference.
It's a compelling story, but it really just reeks of patriarchy and data-collection manipulation and secret societies plotting to control all of society and all the things we supposedly really really don't like today.
We need a Butlerian Jihad against Dune's influence on our society until we give it proper context.
And thanks for attending my Hot Take Ted Talk.
posted by hippybear at 2:10 PM on March 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's a compelling story, but it really just reeks of patriarchy and data-collection manipulation and secret societies plotting to control all of society and all the things we supposedly really really don't like today.
We need a Butlerian Jihad against Dune's influence on our society until we give it proper context.
And thanks for attending my Hot Take Ted Talk.
posted by hippybear at 2:10 PM on March 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
So we basically can smell as well as dogs
I smell better than a dog, full stop.
posted by Oyéah at 2:11 PM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
I smell better than a dog, full stop.
posted by Oyéah at 2:11 PM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
A Fremen's seitch has a knob on the end
posted by mightygodking at 2:14 PM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by mightygodking at 2:14 PM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm still trying to square the worship of a dictator system of government (very popular in SF, from Herbert to Heinlein to Lucas) and the millennia of eugenics and very obvious social manipulation by religious orders and the horrific white savior of local native narrative and how it all combines into something that people in 2023 somehow still revere and want to reference.
Even apart from dictatorships—which it used to be that everybody at least pretended were bad, though who knows nowadays—classic SF is absolutely rife with breeding programs presented at least somewhat sympathetically: the Dune series, the Lensmen series, Heinlein's Future History, Niven's Known Space, Dickson's Dorsai stories, Card's Ender series...
posted by The Tensor at 2:34 PM on March 27, 2023
Even apart from dictatorships—which it used to be that everybody at least pretended were bad, though who knows nowadays—classic SF is absolutely rife with breeding programs presented at least somewhat sympathetically: the Dune series, the Lensmen series, Heinlein's Future History, Niven's Known Space, Dickson's Dorsai stories, Card's Ender series...
posted by The Tensor at 2:34 PM on March 27, 2023
I see that rather than scurrying off with their tails between their legs over the botched raid on Afroman's house (previously), law enforcement officers from Adams County are now suing Afroman for using home-raid footage in music videos. Shame on you, Sheriff Lemon Pound Cake!
posted by scruss at 2:57 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by scruss at 2:57 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Lucas presented the worship of a dictatorship? The Empire is pretty unambiguously Bad People doing bad things... But modern day humans seem dazzled by fancy uniforms
Wee Free Men dnae ride the sandworm, they pick it up and hit their enemies with it
!
posted by Jacen at 3:27 PM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Wee Free Men dnae ride the sandworm, they pick it up and hit their enemies with it
!
posted by Jacen at 3:27 PM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Lot of science fiction fans and movie producers are fascists, I guess.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:33 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:33 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
The thing with Dune is that the narrative arc of the series is that messianic heroes are bad actually, and that tyrants and secret societies with oracular knowledge guiding the masses are something humanity needs to be freed from.*
The arc of the first book, however, is building up Paul as a hero that we want to root for, so that the fact that this turns out to be a trap has some emotional and narrative weight behind it.
It's just, the first book is the one people like. And I don't think that's entirely the fault of the writer or the series.
I reread Dune after reading Dune Messiah, and was impressed out how early and how explicitly the galaxy is doomed to mass death and warfare by Paul's actions. It's just a couple prophetic paragraphs buried in a lengthy work that are easy to blink and miss if you aren't paying attention. And clearly the characters weren't.
*That said I don't think Herbert sticks the landing and would have preferred something more "the master's tool do not in fact disassemble the master's house" as the resolution in the fourth book.
posted by Zalzidrax at 3:35 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
The arc of the first book, however, is building up Paul as a hero that we want to root for, so that the fact that this turns out to be a trap has some emotional and narrative weight behind it.
It's just, the first book is the one people like. And I don't think that's entirely the fault of the writer or the series.
I reread Dune after reading Dune Messiah, and was impressed out how early and how explicitly the galaxy is doomed to mass death and warfare by Paul's actions. It's just a couple prophetic paragraphs buried in a lengthy work that are easy to blink and miss if you aren't paying attention. And clearly the characters weren't.
*That said I don't think Herbert sticks the landing and would have preferred something more "the master's tool do not in fact disassemble the master's house" as the resolution in the fourth book.
posted by Zalzidrax at 3:35 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Lucas presented the worship of a dictatorship?
Queen Amidala is queen by election but for her term she ruled by decree, and that lasted over a decade.The only depictions of the Galactic Senate show utter stagnation and incompetence. Lucas himself has said he feels benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government.
posted by hippybear at 3:41 PM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Queen Amidala is queen by election but for her term she ruled by decree, and that lasted over a decade.The only depictions of the Galactic Senate show utter stagnation and incompetence. Lucas himself has said he feels benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government.
posted by hippybear at 3:41 PM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is there, I wonder, any media that to an unsophisticated audience successfully undermines colonialism/dictatorship/monarchy/fascism etc while telling a story set in that milieu? I mean the perfect example of a swing and a miss would be Starship Troopers (the movie) that a lot of people take literally and just don't see what it was made to be: a brilliant takedown of right-wing military colonizer mindsets.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:43 PM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:43 PM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
(It took more than 25 minutes for me to start, but I did the Hard Thing, thanks for your support.)
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 4:01 PM on March 27, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 4:01 PM on March 27, 2023 [12 favorites]
law enforcement officers from Adams County are now suing Afroman for using home-raid footage in music videos
In the article I read, Afroman says this made it easier on him because he was planning on suing them but their suit means all he has to file is a counter-suit, which is a lot cheaper and easier than initiating the process.
posted by hippybear at 4:38 PM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
In the article I read, Afroman says this made it easier on him because he was planning on suing them but their suit means all he has to file is a counter-suit, which is a lot cheaper and easier than initiating the process.
posted by hippybear at 4:38 PM on March 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don't think Nanny Ogg would have any truck whatever with "history will call us wives."
posted by humbug at 4:54 PM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by humbug at 4:54 PM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Duneworld
Soon to be a deserted complex of gigantic rusting hulks listed on Atlas Obscura.
posted by y2karl at 5:13 PM on March 27, 2023
Soon to be a deserted complex of gigantic rusting hulks listed on Atlas Obscura.
posted by y2karl at 5:13 PM on March 27, 2023
Part of me wants to argue that SF is fascist friendly because most even semi-utopian fiction is anti-politics and it's all in how you hide the complete lack of meaningful dissent. But the other part wants to argue that some hard SF writers and fans are fascist friendly because they are actually fascists, imagining themselves supermen of superior intellect and think the masses as a bunch of idiots holding them back.
Is there, I wonder, any media that to an unsophisticated audience successfully undermines colonialism/dictatorship/monarchy/fascism etc while telling a story set in that milieu?
Tons do, but it sounds like you're looking for something subtle? I mean I dislike James Cameron but Avatar is stridently anti-colonial. (You can substitute Le Guin's The Word for World is Forestif you want the same basic plot with more intelligence and IIRC no white savior crap.)
posted by mark k at 5:15 PM on March 27, 2023
Is there, I wonder, any media that to an unsophisticated audience successfully undermines colonialism/dictatorship/monarchy/fascism etc while telling a story set in that milieu?
Tons do, but it sounds like you're looking for something subtle? I mean I dislike James Cameron but Avatar is stridently anti-colonial. (You can substitute Le Guin's The Word for World is Forestif you want the same basic plot with more intelligence and IIRC no white savior crap.)
posted by mark k at 5:15 PM on March 27, 2023
Daniel Keys Moran's scifi books feature a (French-dominated!) UN world government that just grinds its boot harder and harder -- and the people who rebel against it.
One of these groups is a family of telepaths, who just want to be left alone but who the government wants to use as a tool.
Worth checking out!
posted by wenestvedt at 6:44 PM on March 27, 2023
One of these groups is a family of telepaths, who just want to be left alone but who the government wants to use as a tool.
Worth checking out!
posted by wenestvedt at 6:44 PM on March 27, 2023
Per Wookiepedia, Amidala was elected twice to two year terms and declined to let them change the rules so she could run again. And the Senate is a mess, sure. But it's also being actively manipulated by the ultra bad of the series, Palpatine. Who immediately launched into galactic civil war (also planned by him) and then declared Empire, doing such things as murdering children and destroying planets.
Yes, I'm mostly distracting myself from stressing over the Nashville shooter being allegedly transgender. God help us all.
posted by Jacen at 7:38 PM on March 27, 2023
Yes, I'm mostly distracting myself from stressing over the Nashville shooter being allegedly transgender. God help us all.
posted by Jacen at 7:38 PM on March 27, 2023
Spring is sproinging in our little corner of the world, and I aired up the tires on the moto for my commute today. Fingers were definitely chilled when I arrived at work, but a small price to pay for the joyful mood boost of getting back on two.
posted by calamari kid at 7:59 PM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by calamari kid at 7:59 PM on March 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is there, I wonder, any media that to an unsophisticated audience successfully undermines colonialism/dictatorship/monarchy/fascism etc while telling a story set in that milieu?
The Quiet American by Graham Greene comes close, I think. I haven’t read it in a while. They made a really good movie of it with Caine and Brendan Fraser - Fraser being the misguidedly messianic American - A pretty great character, as I recall.
Storks are back in northern Germany. They are remarkable to see in flight - they make it look easy, flying. Like all the flappy flappy those other birds are up to is just clearly wrong. We saw a bunch in a field and for a moment - they’re really big, like really very big - I thought they might have been ostriches/rheas (there’s a flock or two here but i thought they were mostly somewhere else) and I would have really like to see that - incongruous but also, why not? (Like me, they’re strangers here.)
posted by From Bklyn at 9:11 PM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
The Quiet American by Graham Greene comes close, I think. I haven’t read it in a while. They made a really good movie of it with Caine and Brendan Fraser - Fraser being the misguidedly messianic American - A pretty great character, as I recall.
Storks are back in northern Germany. They are remarkable to see in flight - they make it look easy, flying. Like all the flappy flappy those other birds are up to is just clearly wrong. We saw a bunch in a field and for a moment - they’re really big, like really very big - I thought they might have been ostriches/rheas (there’s a flock or two here but i thought they were mostly somewhere else) and I would have really like to see that - incongruous but also, why not? (Like me, they’re strangers here.)
posted by From Bklyn at 9:11 PM on March 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
If you see a flock of flying ostriches... please see your doctor.
posted by hippybear at 9:20 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 9:20 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
or your dealer
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:24 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:24 PM on March 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I was going to say, I understand completely if no one wants to make a post about the Nashville shooting, just wanted to say fuuuuuuuuuuuck, this is going to be a tragedy on top of a tragedy, followed by a shitshow.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 5:40 AM on March 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 5:40 AM on March 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
I confess that after reading a couple of his books Pratchett is just someone whose charms I'm apparently immune to.
Likewise, and so also with Douglas Adams. I used to think that maybe sf and whimsy do not mix well, but these two authors are both perfectly fine when they have collaborated with, respectively, Neil Gaiman and John Lloyd (or Mark Cadwardine). Maybe they just need someone to temper their more extreme dedication to drearily predictable wordplay.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:44 AM on March 28, 2023
Likewise, and so also with Douglas Adams. I used to think that maybe sf and whimsy do not mix well, but these two authors are both perfectly fine when they have collaborated with, respectively, Neil Gaiman and John Lloyd (or Mark Cadwardine). Maybe they just need someone to temper their more extreme dedication to drearily predictable wordplay.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:44 AM on March 28, 2023
Was disappointed to discover the Butlerian Jihad was not an uprising of manservants.
Or a reference to third-wave feminism.
posted by Grangousier at 7:47 AM on March 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
Or a reference to third-wave feminism.
posted by Grangousier at 7:47 AM on March 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
I mean it was arguably something like 489th wave activist feminism so
posted by cortex at 8:10 AM on March 28, 2023
posted by cortex at 8:10 AM on March 28, 2023
like it's thousands of years into the galactic future and we're still dealing with women having their reproductive autonomy curtailed by doctors who Know Better, just in this case the doctors are also planet-spanning AI infrastructure
posted by cortex at 8:12 AM on March 28, 2023
posted by cortex at 8:12 AM on March 28, 2023
Just a note that it's possible to not enjoy an author's work, without insulting people who do find it entertaining.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:31 AM on March 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:31 AM on March 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
Some of my old karaoke friends from 2019 finally came back to karaoke last night! I don't know if they'll do it again (though if one's custody arrangements change, she may be able to), but YAY!
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:58 AM on March 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:58 AM on March 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
I read a lot of sci fi as a girl, then I read the feminists, then I realized the sci fi was full of chauvinism, some of it outrageously so, Heinlein! But some of it was amazing, Vonnegut! Dune was very readable for me, and I think I will read the first book again, it has been fifty years.
The Sufi's say, "As above, so below." I still will not abandon all hope, even though I entered here.
posted by Oyéah at 2:39 PM on March 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
The Sufi's say, "As above, so below." I still will not abandon all hope, even though I entered here.
posted by Oyéah at 2:39 PM on March 28, 2023 [3 favorites]
When I read the Tripods trilogy aloud to my daughters, I gender-flipped Beanpole as I went, but it was trickier than I'd expected—every so often there'd be a statement like (made up examples) "and there were no girls there at all" or "of course the competition was for boys only"—and they were able to figure out what I was doing.
posted by The Tensor at 2:56 PM on March 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by The Tensor at 2:56 PM on March 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
I restarted Godus the other day.
From a link in a recent post I started watching Let’s Game It Out non-stop on YouTube until I started feeling kind of like a sociopath.
I still wanted to experiment with people and environments so I reviewed some of my previous sim-game apps and landed on Godus. It’s amazingly exactly the same as it was last time I played which was at least a decade ago.
posted by bendy at 1:59 AM on March 30, 2023
From a link in a recent post I started watching Let’s Game It Out non-stop on YouTube until I started feeling kind of like a sociopath.
I still wanted to experiment with people and environments so I reviewed some of my previous sim-game apps and landed on Godus. It’s amazingly exactly the same as it was last time I played which was at least a decade ago.
posted by bendy at 1:59 AM on March 30, 2023
@darth started posting again! On Mastodon and Twitter! I thought they'd given it up.
I needed something cheerful today. The winds are high and howling at the building, and a poor soul has been outside shouting -- he has no home to go to, but he belongs here as much as I do, I suppose. I wasn't about to complain to anyone. He's moved along now.
Tired and frustrated today. My mom is sick again, and although I check every day and I'm told she's getting better, I feel like somebody's going to have to move to keep the family close to each other, and it's probably going to be me. Especially since my landlord company is going through the process to jack up the rent.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:09 AM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
I needed something cheerful today. The winds are high and howling at the building, and a poor soul has been outside shouting -- he has no home to go to, but he belongs here as much as I do, I suppose. I wasn't about to complain to anyone. He's moved along now.
Tired and frustrated today. My mom is sick again, and although I check every day and I'm told she's getting better, I feel like somebody's going to have to move to keep the family close to each other, and it's probably going to be me. Especially since my landlord company is going through the process to jack up the rent.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:09 AM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
In the last MeTa Talktail I mentioned my roommate is entertaining an out-of-town guest...she's staying elsewhere, but he took the week off to hang with her; and I've been quietly cheering things on, because this is a situation where "there were sparks online but we should probably spend time in person before we decide if there's anything we want to happen". He has come home the past few nights, but he's hoping that at least ONE night this week....he won't be. And I'm silently cheering that on because seriously this whole situation is stinkin' cute. They came by to watch a movie in his room together, and she's sweet and he's into it and holy crap so cute. (They're going to an opera tonight and another one Saturday....my money's on one of those nights.)
And I'm also hoping for that to go down because then I would get the entire apartment to myself in the morning, and that would be ideal because I'm an early riser and he's a very late sleeper and if he's getting loved up elsewhere, I can make all the noise I want in the morning and get the cleaning done early to get it out of the way OMIGOD THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC.
In the meantime: even though he is coming home, he's coming home late, so I get to rattle around anyway, and it's shaken me out of my usual rut of "watch TV upstairs in my turf with headphones on" and I am doing productive things - and there are a lot of productive things I've need to tackle;
* My community garden approached me about becoming chairperson, and I think I've managed to convince them that FUCK NO THAT WOULD BE A TERRIBLE IDEA, because with my stage manager habits I'd get way too dictatorial on them and the vibe would be all wrong. I have been aggressively pitching myself as more of a communications officer instead, because that is SORELY SORELY needed and is way more in my wheelhouse. I'm trying to pin the last guy down to turn things over to me and then I'll go all in on that.
* I was more successful in convincing the leader of my photo club that he ALSO doesn't want me to lead things for the same reason, simply by pointing out "you know how I'm always bugging you when someone's lagging behind? I'd be ten times worse." But we both came up with a plan for me to propose spontaneous "hey, I've got an idea for another unofficial side quest" kinds of things between meetings, so I may do that.
* It's finally sunk all the way in that I am flying to Los Angeles in ten days. I'm going to be attending the TCM Classic Film Festival in April (and they're even showing something I need to see for my blog, so that'll be a fun tie-in), and I've already booked the flight and the lodging, bookmarked several of the discounts they have for tours (a MAJOR discount on the Warner Brothers Studio Tour), and I'm planning my days' itineraries. ...I was hoping to meet up with an old roommate who moved out there (someone I met through HERE, actually), but he'll be in NC visiting his grandma that week. However, an old college friend also lives there and we might meet up instead.
* So this weekend is going to be one of the last errandy weekends before the trip where I track down random crap I'll need for all of this, like "do I have travel toiletries" and "I should wash that jacket and then pack it" and "Oh yeah, I need to pick that prescription up because it'll cancel on me before I get back".
....I had the stamina of a whelk yesterday, I'm zooming today.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:23 AM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
And I'm also hoping for that to go down because then I would get the entire apartment to myself in the morning, and that would be ideal because I'm an early riser and he's a very late sleeper and if he's getting loved up elsewhere, I can make all the noise I want in the morning and get the cleaning done early to get it out of the way OMIGOD THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC.
In the meantime: even though he is coming home, he's coming home late, so I get to rattle around anyway, and it's shaken me out of my usual rut of "watch TV upstairs in my turf with headphones on" and I am doing productive things - and there are a lot of productive things I've need to tackle;
* My community garden approached me about becoming chairperson, and I think I've managed to convince them that FUCK NO THAT WOULD BE A TERRIBLE IDEA, because with my stage manager habits I'd get way too dictatorial on them and the vibe would be all wrong. I have been aggressively pitching myself as more of a communications officer instead, because that is SORELY SORELY needed and is way more in my wheelhouse. I'm trying to pin the last guy down to turn things over to me and then I'll go all in on that.
* I was more successful in convincing the leader of my photo club that he ALSO doesn't want me to lead things for the same reason, simply by pointing out "you know how I'm always bugging you when someone's lagging behind? I'd be ten times worse." But we both came up with a plan for me to propose spontaneous "hey, I've got an idea for another unofficial side quest" kinds of things between meetings, so I may do that.
* It's finally sunk all the way in that I am flying to Los Angeles in ten days. I'm going to be attending the TCM Classic Film Festival in April (and they're even showing something I need to see for my blog, so that'll be a fun tie-in), and I've already booked the flight and the lodging, bookmarked several of the discounts they have for tours (a MAJOR discount on the Warner Brothers Studio Tour), and I'm planning my days' itineraries. ...I was hoping to meet up with an old roommate who moved out there (someone I met through HERE, actually), but he'll be in NC visiting his grandma that week. However, an old college friend also lives there and we might meet up instead.
* So this weekend is going to be one of the last errandy weekends before the trip where I track down random crap I'll need for all of this, like "do I have travel toiletries" and "I should wash that jacket and then pack it" and "Oh yeah, I need to pick that prescription up because it'll cancel on me before I get back".
....I had the stamina of a whelk yesterday, I'm zooming today.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:23 AM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Incidentally, "The Expeditious Gastropod" is the name of my new pub. I'm getting a sign made up to hang over the door even as we speak.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:32 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:32 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
We adopted a senior cat, Smokey, last April. We are his third set of humans. There were no medical records, nor any hard information about him other than that his first human died in Feb. 2003, and he was chipped the following month.
When Smokey's second human died, her brother surrendered Smokey to the rescue. He told the rescue that he vaguely recalled that Smokey was a full-sized cat when his got him, which we figured meant he was 9 months to one year old at the time.
Yesterday we got an email from AKC Reunite wishing Smokey a happy birthday! So he's "officially" 21 years old! Of course that date might have been a guesstimate, but it does back up the idea that he was no longer a kitten at the time. It's also just a week before his gotcha day, which is when we were planning to celebrate.
Happy birthday Smokey! We love you so much!
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 5:37 AM on April 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
When Smokey's second human died, her brother surrendered Smokey to the rescue. He told the rescue that he vaguely recalled that Smokey was a full-sized cat when his got him, which we figured meant he was 9 months to one year old at the time.
Yesterday we got an email from AKC Reunite wishing Smokey a happy birthday! So he's "officially" 21 years old! Of course that date might have been a guesstimate, but it does back up the idea that he was no longer a kitten at the time. It's also just a week before his gotcha day, which is when we were planning to celebrate.
Happy birthday Smokey! We love you so much!
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 5:37 AM on April 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
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posted by taz at 3:26 AM on March 27, 2023 [7 favorites]