An Idea That Any Child Could Express in a Single Simple Sentence
April 7, 2023 3:46 PM Subscribe
It amazes me that a group of people could make a movie about being afraid of a hole, being attracted to a hole, feeling excited and curious about going into a hole, feeling concerned that, while on the one hand it might not be such a good idea to go into the hole, on the other hand maybe all the best things in life will become possible only after you have gone into the hole, and so on. It’s not the feelings that amaze me; I feel them all myself. It’s the idea that $20 million and a crew of more than a hundred crew members should have been devoted to dramatizing, over ninety minutes, an idea that any healthy child could express in a single simple sentence. from It’s Nineteen Seventy-Nine, Okay [The Paris Review; ungated]
This article is better, given the source material, than it has any right to be.
posted by mhoye at 3:55 PM on April 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 3:55 PM on April 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
Now I want to watch the Black Hole again, and I am a little interested in Sorcerer. Funny that the author latter a masterpiece. From various web searches and Wikipedia, the consensus seems to be that it’s an OK remake of The Wages of Fear. Maybe I’ll watch the original.
posted by caviar2d2 at 4:12 PM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by caviar2d2 at 4:12 PM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
It amazes me that a group of people could make a movie about being afraid of a hole, being attracted to a hole, feeling excited and curious about going into a hole, feeling concerned that, while on the one hand it might not be such a good idea to go into the hole, on the other hand maybe all the best things in life will become possible only after you have gone into the hole, and so on. It’s
This is the basic plot of every romance movie.
posted by Reyturner at 4:17 PM on April 7, 2023 [41 favorites]
This is the basic plot of every romance movie.
posted by Reyturner at 4:17 PM on April 7, 2023 [41 favorites]
Metafilter - maybe all the best things in life will become possible only after you have gone into the hole
posted by Chuffy at 4:19 PM on April 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Chuffy at 4:19 PM on April 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
Thought they made a movie of The Enigma of the Amigara Fault for a sec there. Probably for the best that they didn't.
When I saw Black Hole as a kid me and my friends all loved it, and we debated the ending like it was 2001.
posted by rodlymight at 4:40 PM on April 7, 2023 [24 favorites]
When I saw Black Hole as a kid me and my friends all loved it, and we debated the ending like it was 2001.
posted by rodlymight at 4:40 PM on April 7, 2023 [24 favorites]
It amazes me that a group of people could make a movie about being afraid of a hole, being attracted to a hole, feeling excited and curious about going into a hole, feeling concerned that, while on the one hand it might not be such a good idea to go into the hole, on the other hand maybe all the best things in life will become possible only after you have gone into the hole, and so on.
IT WAS MADE FOR ME! TH- THIS IS MY ARTICLE!
posted by curious nu at 4:40 PM on April 7, 2023 [51 favorites]
IT WAS MADE FOR ME! TH- THIS IS MY ARTICLE!
posted by curious nu at 4:40 PM on April 7, 2023 [51 favorites]
jinx, rodlymight
posted by curious nu at 4:41 PM on April 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by curious nu at 4:41 PM on April 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
I think the main thing that has cursed The Black Hole is that it was a Disney production. There’s just enough Disneyification hanging around in/through it to distract from what should have been an otherwise solid film. VINCENT and BOB (i’m not typing out all the periods), for instance, are just too obviously Disneyed (especially BOB. Good lord.) I’d love to see how the film would have played minus all the obvious Disneyishness.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:43 PM on April 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 4:43 PM on April 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
If you can’t tolerate the dopey or the obvious, then you won’t have much fun with big-screen science fiction made in 1979 ... In 1979's Alien, we are attacked by the mother
I guess The Brood could be waved away in terms similar to Alien, but Stalker? Good year for non-obvious / non-dopey fantasy films too, e.g. Nezha Conquers the Dragon King (based on chapters 12-14 of the 16th Century novel Investiture of the Gods), A Walk Through H: The Reincarnation of an Ornithologist (Peter Greenaway's short film reminiscent of Invisible Cities), Savage Hunt of King Stakh (based on the novel by Uladzimir Karatkievich), and Beauty and the Beast (the New Wave-ish Czech version with a crow-person beast, I think usually listed as 1978 but Letterboxd says 1979 so here we are). The 70s were full of amazing SF/F films, though maybe not well-known ones.
posted by Wobbuffet at 5:07 PM on April 7, 2023 [9 favorites]
I guess The Brood could be waved away in terms similar to Alien, but Stalker? Good year for non-obvious / non-dopey fantasy films too, e.g. Nezha Conquers the Dragon King (based on chapters 12-14 of the 16th Century novel Investiture of the Gods), A Walk Through H: The Reincarnation of an Ornithologist (Peter Greenaway's short film reminiscent of Invisible Cities), Savage Hunt of King Stakh (based on the novel by Uladzimir Karatkievich), and Beauty and the Beast (the New Wave-ish Czech version with a crow-person beast, I think usually listed as 1978 but Letterboxd says 1979 so here we are). The 70s were full of amazing SF/F films, though maybe not well-known ones.
posted by Wobbuffet at 5:07 PM on April 7, 2023 [9 favorites]
I was terrified of the undead zombie crew and the laser machine on your face that makes you into an undead zombie crew member. And perhaps of Ernest Borgnine (wait, was that the name of one of the robots?)
And V.I.N.CENT is a sassy badass.
posted by credulous at 5:23 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
And V.I.N.CENT is a sassy badass.
posted by credulous at 5:23 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
I rewatched The Black Hole last year after forty years and ... it's not good. The effects work is still pretty great but the writing and acting is so painful.
posted by octothorpe at 5:35 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 5:35 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
I remember being 8 years old and excited to see The Black Hole. I barely remember anything about it except I was very bored.
posted by SoberHighland at 5:38 PM on April 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by SoberHighland at 5:38 PM on April 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
Y'all realize the hole is a metaphor, right?
posted by metametamind at 6:26 PM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by metametamind at 6:26 PM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is it silly? Yes.
Does it contain the unforgivably stupid line about searching for "habitable life?" Yes.
Are the robots egregiously, obviously designed to sell toys? Yes.
Is the plot nonsensical, along with the physics? Yes.
…But I will forgive all that for The Black Hole also has the most gloriously epic theme ever put to film. Seriously, the film let that score down mightily. It deserved so much better.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 7:20 PM on April 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
Does it contain the unforgivably stupid line about searching for "habitable life?" Yes.
Are the robots egregiously, obviously designed to sell toys? Yes.
Is the plot nonsensical, along with the physics? Yes.
…But I will forgive all that for The Black Hole also has the most gloriously epic theme ever put to film. Seriously, the film let that score down mightily. It deserved so much better.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 7:20 PM on April 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
I used to think that Event Horizon was just Michael Crichton’s Sphere in space. Then I realized how much it also owed to Tarkovsky’s Solaris. Only now do I realize that it owes just as much to The Black Hole. In my defense, I saw The Black Hole for the first time several years after I saw Event Horizon.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 7:51 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Mister Moofoo at 7:51 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
an OK remake of The Wages of Fear. Maybe I’ll watch the original.
I've never tried Sorcerer because I've seen The Wages of Fear, which was one of the most intense cinematic experiences I've ever endured.
As for The Black Hole I was just musing on its religiosity. Robots having a funeral/space burial for one of their own? And that Heaven&Hell ending reminds me of Fantasia's.
posted by Rash at 8:08 PM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've never tried Sorcerer because I've seen The Wages of Fear, which was one of the most intense cinematic experiences I've ever endured.
As for The Black Hole I was just musing on its religiosity. Robots having a funeral/space burial for one of their own? And that Heaven&Hell ending reminds me of Fantasia's.
posted by Rash at 8:08 PM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Listicle: Best V.I.N.CENT Quotes
V.I.N.CENT : To quote Cicero: rashness is the characteristic of youth, prudence that of mellowed age, and discretion the better part of valor.
V.I.N.CENT : A wolf remains a wolf, even if it has not eaten your sheep.
V.I.N.CENT : There are three basic types, Mr. Pizer: the Wills, the Won'ts, and the Can'ts. The Wills accomplish everything, the Won'ts oppose everything, and the Can'ts won't try anything.
V.I.N.CENT : A pint can not hold a quart, Mr. Pizer. If it holds the pint. it's doing the best it can.
V.I.N.CENT : All sunshine makes a desert, so the Arabs say.
Lieutenant Charles Pizer : V.I.N.CENT, were you programmed to bug me?
V.I.N.CENT : No, sir, to educate you.
V.I.N.CENT : Dehydrated turkey, with dehydrated oyster stuffing. Also dehydrated cranberry sauce, dehydrated gravy and giblets, dehydrated sweet potatoes in dehydrated orange sauce, dehydrated vegetable salad, dehydrated mince pie, dehydrated...
Lieutenant Charles Pizer : [firmly cutting him off] I envy you, VINCENT.
V.I.N.CENT : That's not surprising. Why?
Lieutenant Charles Pizer : Because you don't have any taste buds.
V.I.N.CENT : I don't mean to sound superior, but I hate the company of robots.
Kate McCrae : Are you alright, V.I.N.CENT?
V.I.N.CENT : Nothing a hammer and a little metal polish can't fix, thank you.
Kate McCrae : V.I.N.CENT - are you sure you're alright?
V.I.N.CENT : Down, but never for the full count, Dr. McCrae.
Lieutenant Charles Pizer : [V.I.N.CENT being blocked by Maximillian] Back off, V.I.N.CENT.
V.I.N.CENT : Not until he does.
V.I.N.CENT : They still haven't improved on our model. You can't modify perfection! We are the best.
V.I.N.CENT : S.T.A.R., V.I.N.CENT's my name. Sharpshootings my game. Try me.
V.I.N.CENT : There is a saying that you can't unscramble eggs!
(also I forgot that he could do ESP with Kate)
posted by credulous at 8:09 PM on April 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
V.I.N.CENT : To quote Cicero: rashness is the characteristic of youth, prudence that of mellowed age, and discretion the better part of valor.
V.I.N.CENT : A wolf remains a wolf, even if it has not eaten your sheep.
V.I.N.CENT : There are three basic types, Mr. Pizer: the Wills, the Won'ts, and the Can'ts. The Wills accomplish everything, the Won'ts oppose everything, and the Can'ts won't try anything.
V.I.N.CENT : A pint can not hold a quart, Mr. Pizer. If it holds the pint. it's doing the best it can.
V.I.N.CENT : All sunshine makes a desert, so the Arabs say.
Lieutenant Charles Pizer : V.I.N.CENT, were you programmed to bug me?
V.I.N.CENT : No, sir, to educate you.
V.I.N.CENT : Dehydrated turkey, with dehydrated oyster stuffing. Also dehydrated cranberry sauce, dehydrated gravy and giblets, dehydrated sweet potatoes in dehydrated orange sauce, dehydrated vegetable salad, dehydrated mince pie, dehydrated...
Lieutenant Charles Pizer : [firmly cutting him off] I envy you, VINCENT.
V.I.N.CENT : That's not surprising. Why?
Lieutenant Charles Pizer : Because you don't have any taste buds.
V.I.N.CENT : I don't mean to sound superior, but I hate the company of robots.
Kate McCrae : Are you alright, V.I.N.CENT?
V.I.N.CENT : Nothing a hammer and a little metal polish can't fix, thank you.
Kate McCrae : V.I.N.CENT - are you sure you're alright?
V.I.N.CENT : Down, but never for the full count, Dr. McCrae.
Lieutenant Charles Pizer : [V.I.N.CENT being blocked by Maximillian] Back off, V.I.N.CENT.
V.I.N.CENT : Not until he does.
V.I.N.CENT : They still haven't improved on our model. You can't modify perfection! We are the best.
V.I.N.CENT : S.T.A.R., V.I.N.CENT's my name. Sharpshootings my game. Try me.
V.I.N.CENT : There is a saying that you can't unscramble eggs!
(also I forgot that he could do ESP with Kate)
posted by credulous at 8:09 PM on April 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
I am a little interested in Sorcerer. Funny that the author latter a masterpiece. From various web searches and Wikipedia, the consensus seems to be that it’s an OK remake of The Wages of Fear.
Sorcerer is fantastic. But you really should try to watch it on a big screen. It's one of those movies, very filmic and intense. It's a real white knuckle ride, though narratively of course rather simple.
A friend of mine in film said Friedkin's memoirs are fantastic. Each chapter a different film. He seems to have been something of a "by any means necessary" filmmaker and the results are difficult to argue with, but boy did drama follow him.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 8:09 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Sorcerer is fantastic. But you really should try to watch it on a big screen. It's one of those movies, very filmic and intense. It's a real white knuckle ride, though narratively of course rather simple.
A friend of mine in film said Friedkin's memoirs are fantastic. Each chapter a different film. He seems to have been something of a "by any means necessary" filmmaker and the results are difficult to argue with, but boy did drama follow him.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 8:09 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
I love the design of the Cygnus. By far the most astounding and unique gothic masterpiece of a spaceship ever put on film. Victorian ironwork crystal palace crossed with a medieval cathedral floating in space. And the 1970s futuristic interiors.
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:24 PM on April 7, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:24 PM on April 7, 2023 [12 favorites]
I remember being 8 years old and excited to see The Black Hole. I barely remember anything about it except I was very bored.
Are you sure that wasn't Star Trek: The Motionless Picture? I fell asleep during the first two viewings but then I got into it during the next two. (we watched the same movies over and over back then)
posted by credulous at 10:19 PM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Are you sure that wasn't Star Trek: The Motionless Picture? I fell asleep during the first two viewings but then I got into it during the next two. (we watched the same movies over and over back then)
posted by credulous at 10:19 PM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
nice link. really thoughtful writing. the author's captivation wirth the theme opened up a new idea.
posted by j_curiouser at 10:22 PM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by j_curiouser at 10:22 PM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I sort of track with this guy's article. I single-handedly raised myself from the muck of 4th grade by obsessively and solely reading science fiction. It was precisely in 1979 when I awoke to the devastating realization that "hey, this stuff is mostly the old crapola, ain't it?" Since, I've limited my reading material to Unix texts and the periodical Mechanics Illustrated.
posted by Chitownfats at 11:12 PM on April 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Chitownfats at 11:12 PM on April 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
90% of Unix texts are crap.
posted by flabdablet at 2:56 AM on April 8, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 2:56 AM on April 8, 2023 [6 favorites]
The gauntlet is thrown!
posted by Chitownfats at 3:38 AM on April 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Chitownfats at 3:38 AM on April 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
I went and saw The Black Hole in the theater as a sci-fi-nerdy 13 year old and I did not like it - I forget most of the details about it, but I remember that fairly early into the film something got my eyes rolling and I spent a big chunk of the movie snarking to myself about it.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:16 AM on April 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rmd1023 at 7:16 AM on April 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Wow, what a lot of disdain in the article. I appreciate the shout-out to contemporary written sf, but there's a lot of sneering here:
It amazes me that a group of people could make a movie about being afraid of a hole, being attracted to a hole, feeling excited and curious about going into a hole, feeling concerned that, while on the one hand it might not be such a good idea to go into the hole, on the other hand maybe all the best things in life will become possible only after you have gone into the hole, and so on. It’s not the feelings that amaze me; I feel them all myself.
The author lived through that time, but somehow failed to remember - or know - that black holes were all the rage in pop science at the time. There was a lot of buzz. And black holes were very strange to, well, just about everyone. A perfectly sensible anchor for an sf film.
(Not to praise it. I remember seeing it opening night and having a mixed experience until the end, which both ripped off 2001 and crammed Christianity right in. In retrospect, I admire the horror aspects more than I used to, and also the production design overall, but the end is still goofy.)
If you can’t tolerate the dopey or the obvious, then you won’t have much fun with big-screen science fiction made in 1979.
Then slams Alien, a truly impressive film?
posted by doctornemo at 11:44 AM on April 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
It amazes me that a group of people could make a movie about being afraid of a hole, being attracted to a hole, feeling excited and curious about going into a hole, feeling concerned that, while on the one hand it might not be such a good idea to go into the hole, on the other hand maybe all the best things in life will become possible only after you have gone into the hole, and so on. It’s not the feelings that amaze me; I feel them all myself.
The author lived through that time, but somehow failed to remember - or know - that black holes were all the rage in pop science at the time. There was a lot of buzz. And black holes were very strange to, well, just about everyone. A perfectly sensible anchor for an sf film.
(Not to praise it. I remember seeing it opening night and having a mixed experience until the end, which both ripped off 2001 and crammed Christianity right in. In retrospect, I admire the horror aspects more than I used to, and also the production design overall, but the end is still goofy.)
If you can’t tolerate the dopey or the obvious, then you won’t have much fun with big-screen science fiction made in 1979.
Then slams Alien, a truly impressive film?
posted by doctornemo at 11:44 AM on April 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
It’s not a very good movie but I also think there’s something oddly compelling about it.
posted by atoxyl at 12:19 PM on April 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 12:19 PM on April 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'll watch anything with Max Von S, even The Serpent's Egg.
Sorcerer would make a good double bill with Wages of Fear. It's the same story but from a different perspective. The things that are interesting about Wages of Fear (nail-bitey hazard sequences) are also done really well in Sorcerer.
posted by ovvl at 1:26 PM on April 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sorcerer would make a good double bill with Wages of Fear. It's the same story but from a different perspective. The things that are interesting about Wages of Fear (nail-bitey hazard sequences) are also done really well in Sorcerer.
posted by ovvl at 1:26 PM on April 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sorcerer would make a good double bill with Wages of Fear.
True.
posted by doctornemo at 8:15 AM on April 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
True.
posted by doctornemo at 8:15 AM on April 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One deleted. AI chatbot produced notations are becoming a bit of a problem, and I believe we want to move away from this.
posted by taz (staff) at 10:04 PM on April 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 10:04 PM on April 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Having now read the whole article, this actually has me considering rewatching The Black Hole to see what it's like to current me instead of decades-old memories of it. I mean, of course it's cheeze. It's overblown and full of itself but so was half the stuff that came out in the late 70's, sf genre and otherwise.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:03 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rmd1023 at 8:03 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Aw, I was hoping this would be about The Pit, but that wasn't until 1981.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:31 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:31 AM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
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Really enjoyed the article.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:52 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]