Omnia mutantur, nihil interit
May 18, 2023 9:40 AM Subscribe
What did British Latin sound like?
Linguist Danny Bate attempts to reconstruct a little of how Latin was spoken in Roman Britain.
Linguist Danny Bate attempts to reconstruct a little of how Latin was spoken in Roman Britain.
I speak American Latin, but tbh most British Latins are close enough for me to understand. In contrast, continental Latins are almost like a whole other language.
posted by grobstein at 11:08 AM on May 18, 2023
posted by grobstein at 11:08 AM on May 18, 2023
I don’t hold this opinion because of lots of direct evidence; our sources for Latin of this era in Britain are minimal. Furthermore, texts like the Vindolanda tablets and the Bath curse tablets are amazing and insightful, but they are not unproblematic sources for the analysis of a distinctly British Latin. Writing has its own rules, and may not accurately reflect everyday language, sticking instead to an expected formal, perhaps archaic register.
One of the "If you had a time machine..." things I would do is "Just go back to a bunch of times and places before recorded sound to listen to how people spoke." It would be endlessly fascinating.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:12 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
One of the "If you had a time machine..." things I would do is "Just go back to a bunch of times and places before recorded sound to listen to how people spoke." It would be endlessly fascinating.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:12 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS BOOK!
London In The Roman World
posted by robbyrobs at 11:52 AM on May 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
London In The Roman World
posted by robbyrobs at 11:52 AM on May 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Omnia mutantur, nihil interit, innit
posted by flabdablet at 12:28 PM on May 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 12:28 PM on May 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
I speak American Latin, but tbh most British Latins are close enough for me to understand. In contrast, continental Latins are almost like a whole other language.
Loquor Americanus Latinus, sed honestum esse Latinis maxime Britannicis satis mihi est ad intellegendum. E contra, Latini continentales paene similes sunt linguae totius.
Google Latin.
posted by hippybear at 1:02 PM on May 18, 2023
Loquor Americanus Latinus, sed honestum esse Latinis maxime Britannicis satis mihi est ad intellegendum. E contra, Latini continentales paene similes sunt linguae totius.
Google Latin.
posted by hippybear at 1:02 PM on May 18, 2023
Great post, I really enjoyed this and thought Bate set out his argument so accessibly.
I live in Surrey, just to the south west of London, and during lockdown got increasingly obsessed with how much Roman stuff is hiding in plain sight. Within walking distance of my house is a surviving stretch of Stane Street, the road from London to Chichester, which lives on either as busy A-roads or barely used footpaths. The bit near me is the latter, thankfully. In places you can still see the agger and the metalling from the surface, as well as the holes in neighbouring fields where the engineers and builders dug out the material.
Within the same distance is the site of a villa and tile works, now woodland but originally a cleared site with impressive buildings and a heated bathhouse - imagine that in the first century AD on a chilly day in Roman Britain. Tiles from the site are reused in the walls of the nearest church (built in the Norman period). A friend of mine regularly finds Roman tegula and pottery in her garden, as her (very old) house is clearly on the site of something even older.
The remains of Roman Britain are everywhere in my neighbourhood, in other words, and I’m always amazed more people don’t get excited about it!
posted by greycap at 1:37 PM on May 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
I live in Surrey, just to the south west of London, and during lockdown got increasingly obsessed with how much Roman stuff is hiding in plain sight. Within walking distance of my house is a surviving stretch of Stane Street, the road from London to Chichester, which lives on either as busy A-roads or barely used footpaths. The bit near me is the latter, thankfully. In places you can still see the agger and the metalling from the surface, as well as the holes in neighbouring fields where the engineers and builders dug out the material.
Within the same distance is the site of a villa and tile works, now woodland but originally a cleared site with impressive buildings and a heated bathhouse - imagine that in the first century AD on a chilly day in Roman Britain. Tiles from the site are reused in the walls of the nearest church (built in the Norman period). A friend of mine regularly finds Roman tegula and pottery in her garden, as her (very old) house is clearly on the site of something even older.
The remains of Roman Britain are everywhere in my neighbourhood, in other words, and I’m always amazed more people don’t get excited about it!
posted by greycap at 1:37 PM on May 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
Innire inno innis, innit?
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:06 PM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:06 PM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
greycap, I think people forget that Roman Britain was a thing for 400 years.
That's like Plymouth Colony until today. Like the 30-years War until today. Blaise Pascal was born 400 years ago. Britain was Roman a very long time!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:07 PM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
That's like Plymouth Colony until today. Like the 30-years War until today. Blaise Pascal was born 400 years ago. Britain was Roman a very long time!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:07 PM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
What's insane to me is you visit Cologne [Köln] Germany and you have that giant Gothic cathedral and then a football field away is this excavation of Roman ruins... which are way underground. A lot of the Roman stuff in the UK is well-buried, too. It's an entire world existing under most of Europe and its surrounds.
posted by hippybear at 2:12 PM on May 18, 2023
posted by hippybear at 2:12 PM on May 18, 2023
It's an entire world existing under most of Europe and its surrounds.
Section of Roman wall in London underground parking garage
posted by thatwhichfalls at 2:18 PM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Section of Roman wall in London underground parking garage
posted by thatwhichfalls at 2:18 PM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
it sounded a lot like this - well, maybe a thousand years later ...
posted by pyramid termite at 2:48 PM on May 18, 2023
posted by pyramid termite at 2:48 PM on May 18, 2023
Probably didn't sound like this either.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 3:20 PM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 3:20 PM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Iste mundus furibundus, eh? Romani ite domum! Centies. Alioquin ... perdam scrotum tuum.
😆 roflmao, roflmas, roflmat, roflmamus, roflmatus, roflmant
posted by zaixfeep at 5:22 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
😆 roflmao, roflmas, roflmat, roflmamus, roflmatus, roflmant
posted by zaixfeep at 5:22 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
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I wonder if like today folks from the North and Londiniumites sounded like two separate languages. At least to an American ear.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:19 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]