Digital TRPGs are their own special world
July 11, 2023 4:53 PM Subscribe
The Lady Afterwards is a few-shot tabletop RPG adventure about weird cultists in Alexandria in the 1920's. The game was produced by The Weather Factory, a tiny game studio whose main product is the Cultist Simulator video game. The physical version of The Lady Afterwards has a pile of player handouts and beautifully produced props, and originally sold out very quickly. The author, Lottie Bevan, wrote a fascinating (spoiler-free) postmortem about The Lady Afterwards' production which includes some fascinating comparative economics of the video game and ttrpg spaces.
Ugh, rough... I had some memory of contribution with Kennedy but had forgotten the details. Perhaps we can focus on Lottie Bevan's work for this discussion, though?
posted by kaibutsu at 5:19 PM on July 11, 2023
posted by kaibutsu at 5:19 PM on July 11, 2023
I don't have supporting links but I remember she was (is?) his partner and was going after the people making the allegations against him. Sorry for being a buzzkill.
posted by juv3nal at 5:24 PM on July 11, 2023
posted by juv3nal at 5:24 PM on July 11, 2023
We bought the physical edition on sale. It's beautiful. The gameplay design is very much about vibes rather than strict rule-sets, which is fun, but pretty demanding for a GM.
(I hate for this to be sidetracked into a discussion of Alexis Kennedy, but I read the allegations of abuse primed to agree with them, as I generally am, and I'm still not sure what the actual abuse is--"I had a secret affair with the guy while I worked at his company and he cheated on me" is shitty personal behavior, but not quite sure it constitutes abuse without the actual detailed "more" I was expecting, you know, "after we broke up, he continued to pressure me for sex/fired me/shared my nudes with coworkers"-type stuff.)
posted by praemunire at 5:29 PM on July 11, 2023
(I hate for this to be sidetracked into a discussion of Alexis Kennedy, but I read the allegations of abuse primed to agree with them, as I generally am, and I'm still not sure what the actual abuse is--"I had a secret affair with the guy while I worked at his company and he cheated on me" is shitty personal behavior, but not quite sure it constitutes abuse without the actual detailed "more" I was expecting, you know, "after we broke up, he continued to pressure me for sex/fired me/shared my nudes with coworkers"-type stuff.)
posted by praemunire at 5:29 PM on July 11, 2023
I had a secret affair with the guy while I worked at his company
they were pressured into these affairs because he was their boss. if you don't think that constitutes abuse, I don't know what to tell you.
posted by juv3nal at 5:37 PM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
they were pressured into these affairs because he was their boss. if you don't think that constitutes abuse, I don't know what to tell you.
posted by juv3nal at 5:37 PM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Lottie Bevan has certainly caught a lot of flak over the last few years. If you're curious about how Weather Factory is positioning themselves, the Personal tag on that blog has their side of things (basically a consistent blanket denial of abuse, and there's nasty ongoing corporate drama between them and Failbetter). I'd guess the IP issues must have progressed some, given the release of Mask of the Rose in 2023.
I've liked what I've played of Cultist Simulator, but kinda dropped off in 2019 (wonder why). I get their news in Steam by owning the game, and it's just them consistently making things and patching their game, so I guess life goes on for them.
posted by Anonymous Function at 5:42 PM on July 11, 2023
I've liked what I've played of Cultist Simulator, but kinda dropped off in 2019 (wonder why). I get their news in Steam by owning the game, and it's just them consistently making things and patching their game, so I guess life goes on for them.
posted by Anonymous Function at 5:42 PM on July 11, 2023
they were pressured into these affairs because he was their boss.
And that is exactly the kind of allegation I expected to read! I know little of Kennedy as a person, but I do know what the odds are on men. But if you look at what Olivia Wood wrote, though, she never says that:
posted by praemunire at 5:55 PM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
And that is exactly the kind of allegation I expected to read! I know little of Kennedy as a person, but I do know what the odds are on men. But if you look at what Olivia Wood wrote, though, she never says that:
"I was in a relationship with Alexis Kennedy for nearly two years. He was my line manager the entire time," Wood wrote. "It was kept a secret from the whole company, including the board.I don't know if there's a weird hole at the center of these allegations due to UK libel laws, which are still stupidly stringent; it's certainly possible. And maybe I've missed some post somewhere? But right now I feel weird about it, because no one seems to actually come out and say what he did. She characterizes it as a relationship; she characterizes him as her partner. I don't know what to make of it all. I don't even have anything more to argue about it, because on these facts I don't know what to think and it makes me feel gross to argue about it without knowing more than appears to be currently available.
"During our relationship he cheated on me with people brought to company events, and who were wanting to work with the company. He broke up with me by messaging me that he'd cheated on me with a colleague (also his direct report) at the office Halloween party.
"I had to request he stop being my line manager afterwards, though even then he was my manager's manager, and CEO. His attitude towards me and my work changed the moment I was no longer his partner.
posted by praemunire at 5:55 PM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
At the very least, it's crappy behavior to be sleeping with someone who is reporting to you or otherwise reliant on you for their job/career. Which it sounds like Alexis Kennedy compounded by not handling things after they broke up. I think it's in the same ballpark as Dan Harmon; the behavior may not be legally actionable, but it still makes the industry an unwelcoming and unpleasant place for women. People should be able to get a job and go to work without the expectation that their boss will be harassing them for a date.
posted by Balna Watya at 6:39 PM on July 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Balna Watya at 6:39 PM on July 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
I've played a lot of Echo Bazaar Fallen London and Sunless Sea. I haven't got to Sunless Skies or Mask of the Rose yet but I think I own copies. I've also played a lot of Cultist Simulator, in fact I was an early Kickstarter supporter, and when Book of Hours comes out I'm almost certainly going to pick it up and play a lot of it. Lady Afterwards seems intriguing and if I were a TTRPG sort I would be looking at it harder; unfortunately neither I nor anyone I know are TTRPG sorts.
By many accounts (vs his and Lottie's, I guess) AK is one of those guys who uses their creativity, charm, and whatever power differential they have at their disposal to serially manipulate and take advantage of women. The existence of that situation, like the endless stream of similar situations before it and the presumably endless stream of similar situations to come, because nobody ever fucking changes or learns a thing I guess, apparently manipulative assholes will be figuratively and literally waving their precious magical dicks around until the heat death of the universe -- the situation makes me angry, and sad, and tired. So tired.
So those who have the stomach for it are welcome to set out the pieces for another round of Separating the Art from the Artist. I don't participate much in those debates anymore, people tend to dig in and there's little to be gained, but I do pause to weigh the value of the art to me personally vs the virtue of sending the whole mess down the memory hole. Lot of things have gone down the memory hole in the last few years, furnaces have been busy.
Weather Factory's output is compelling enough to me to hang on to it, for now. At least AK has had the good sense to mostly shut up, stay out of view, and let the work speak for itself, that helps. The whole thing is on the table next to the memory hole and it wouldn't take much from AK (or Lottie I guess) to send it down, but for now the stories are rich and strange enough that I can immerse myself and enjoy them. I wish I could enjoy it without reservation or without having to perform that calculus, but I still enjoy it. For now. I can easily see the calculus working out differently for others.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 9:25 PM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
By many accounts (vs his and Lottie's, I guess) AK is one of those guys who uses their creativity, charm, and whatever power differential they have at their disposal to serially manipulate and take advantage of women. The existence of that situation, like the endless stream of similar situations before it and the presumably endless stream of similar situations to come, because nobody ever fucking changes or learns a thing I guess, apparently manipulative assholes will be figuratively and literally waving their precious magical dicks around until the heat death of the universe -- the situation makes me angry, and sad, and tired. So tired.
So those who have the stomach for it are welcome to set out the pieces for another round of Separating the Art from the Artist. I don't participate much in those debates anymore, people tend to dig in and there's little to be gained, but I do pause to weigh the value of the art to me personally vs the virtue of sending the whole mess down the memory hole. Lot of things have gone down the memory hole in the last few years, furnaces have been busy.
Weather Factory's output is compelling enough to me to hang on to it, for now. At least AK has had the good sense to mostly shut up, stay out of view, and let the work speak for itself, that helps. The whole thing is on the table next to the memory hole and it wouldn't take much from AK (or Lottie I guess) to send it down, but for now the stories are rich and strange enough that I can immerse myself and enjoy them. I wish I could enjoy it without reservation or without having to perform that calculus, but I still enjoy it. For now. I can easily see the calculus working out differently for others.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 9:25 PM on July 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm acquaintances or friends with all of the people who've made allegations against Alexis Kennedy, and I believe them. The behaviour they describe is, to my mind, at the very least coercive, and arguably abusive.
If I worked in a company where the boss was having multiple relationships with his staff, with potential employees, where he was shouting and swearing at me after having broken up with them, I'd describe that as an abusive of power and an abusive workplace. No-one should have to accept that behaviour and the public and potential employees deserve to know. At many companies this would be cause for immediate disciplinary review, at least.
It is wrong to say that the allegations do not contain details of what Alexis Kennedy did. If you choose to say those details are merely unprofessional behaviour rather than abusive, that's up to you.
posted by adrianhon at 3:17 AM on July 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
If I worked in a company where the boss was having multiple relationships with his staff, with potential employees, where he was shouting and swearing at me after having broken up with them, I'd describe that as an abusive of power and an abusive workplace. No-one should have to accept that behaviour and the public and potential employees deserve to know. At many companies this would be cause for immediate disciplinary review, at least.
It is wrong to say that the allegations do not contain details of what Alexis Kennedy did. If you choose to say those details are merely unprofessional behaviour rather than abusive, that's up to you.
posted by adrianhon at 3:17 AM on July 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
All of the sad trombone. There's a lot of human messiness on display here - it's genuinely terrible to sleep with people who report to you (directly or indirectly), regardless of anything further.
And it's especially unfortunate that Bevans' (excellent, IMO) work is overshadowed by Kennedy's poor behavior. Sounds like she's endured piles of Twitter abuse and professional consequences for (essentially) standing by her person.
---
I found the postmortem interesting (and it was the motivation for the post) in part because it gives such a clear indication of the scale of the TTRPG space - the highest possible sales tier on DriveThruRPG is about 20 days of sales for a pretty obscure 3-year-old video game. However niche I feel in my choice of video games, my choice of table-top games is faaaar more niche.
The Lady Afterwards has a bunch of really lovely ideas, which I can only imagine are coming from Bevans' background in video game design, because they are really different from what you see in the usual TTRPG adventure design. The opening 'ice-breaker' is really cool, interleaving character intros with vignettes of cities the train to Alexandria is passing through, and provides a simple and effective worldbuilding/story telling technique I genuinely haven't seen in a TTRPG previously.
The game also has a discrete list of places available to visit on a discrete number of days (controlling the party's scope of places they can visit as the story progresses) is also pretty unique, and feels pretty video-gamey, as in video games you're /forced/ to have a finite explorable space with a finite set of characters. When I played it with some friends, we definitely added a couple improvised stops, and at one point were sad to run into the 'edge of the board' and not follow up on a clue that pointed literally off the map. But the trade-off is that the structure makes the overall storytelling more manageable, without being 'on-rails.' There's a whole host of tricks in video game design for making finite spaces seem bigger than they really are, and it's interesting to see some of them ported into a space where the constraints are less necessary. At the same time, adding these kinds of constraints makes the game surprisingly easy to run - knowing the basic structure, you only need to improvise 'within' each visited location, and sit back and let the players puzzle out clues and decide where to go next.
So, overall you get this fascinating dialog between video game design and TTRPG design, which usually doesn't happen because why on earth would a video game designer ever waste their time on something as unprofitable as a TTRPG?
posted by kaibutsu at 12:00 PM on July 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
And it's especially unfortunate that Bevans' (excellent, IMO) work is overshadowed by Kennedy's poor behavior. Sounds like she's endured piles of Twitter abuse and professional consequences for (essentially) standing by her person.
---
I found the postmortem interesting (and it was the motivation for the post) in part because it gives such a clear indication of the scale of the TTRPG space - the highest possible sales tier on DriveThruRPG is about 20 days of sales for a pretty obscure 3-year-old video game. However niche I feel in my choice of video games, my choice of table-top games is faaaar more niche.
The Lady Afterwards has a bunch of really lovely ideas, which I can only imagine are coming from Bevans' background in video game design, because they are really different from what you see in the usual TTRPG adventure design. The opening 'ice-breaker' is really cool, interleaving character intros with vignettes of cities the train to Alexandria is passing through, and provides a simple and effective worldbuilding/story telling technique I genuinely haven't seen in a TTRPG previously.
The game also has a discrete list of places available to visit on a discrete number of days (controlling the party's scope of places they can visit as the story progresses) is also pretty unique, and feels pretty video-gamey, as in video games you're /forced/ to have a finite explorable space with a finite set of characters. When I played it with some friends, we definitely added a couple improvised stops, and at one point were sad to run into the 'edge of the board' and not follow up on a clue that pointed literally off the map. But the trade-off is that the structure makes the overall storytelling more manageable, without being 'on-rails.' There's a whole host of tricks in video game design for making finite spaces seem bigger than they really are, and it's interesting to see some of them ported into a space where the constraints are less necessary. At the same time, adding these kinds of constraints makes the game surprisingly easy to run - knowing the basic structure, you only need to improvise 'within' each visited location, and sit back and let the players puzzle out clues and decide where to go next.
So, overall you get this fascinating dialog between video game design and TTRPG design, which usually doesn't happen because why on earth would a video game designer ever waste their time on something as unprofitable as a TTRPG?
posted by kaibutsu at 12:00 PM on July 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
The TT game itself looks beautiful - for those who have played it, is it a one-time takes-many-sessions to finish adventure, or something you can replay? Do you need to write things down to keep track, or does the gameplay not require that?
posted by Mchelly at 3:19 PM on July 12, 2023
posted by Mchelly at 3:19 PM on July 12, 2023
It's a single adventure, designed for about three sessions of maybe a couple few hours each. The adventure takes place over three days of in-game time, and the days make natural session stopping points. The handouts are great, but it probably makes sense to take some notes on the side, as well.
posted by kaibutsu at 3:24 PM on July 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kaibutsu at 3:24 PM on July 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by juv3nal at 5:02 PM on July 11, 2023 [2 favorites]