Radical Piano
August 5, 2023 10:35 PM Subscribe
Unveiling Ravenchord: A Radical Piano Redesign from Dan Harden. I'm pretty sure based on the page that this instrument is just a design prototype that hasn't been built. It's absolutely gorgeous to look at; I'd love to hear it played.
Wow, this is a very cool design idea
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:24 PM on August 5, 2023
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:24 PM on August 5, 2023
I’ve been very tempted by the Keybird as a similar rethinking of the instrument. I love new takes on the piano - there’s really been a continuous history of innovation for hundreds of years.
posted by q*ben at 12:04 AM on August 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by q*ben at 12:04 AM on August 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
Foot space in the carved raised box around the pedals looks a bit tight - I'm sure as a soloist one would get used to it, but trying to fit a duet's four feet in and around there would be a nightmare.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 2:00 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 2:00 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
I can see a lot of practical problems in getting this to sound good:
1. Some of the strings are in a section which sits on the floor, that's going to dampen the sound compared to other sections.
2. The hammers hit the middle of the string not the end, so if the same note is hit repeatedly it will meet the string at the point of greatest vibration. That is going to change the sound so much I'm not sure the instrument should still be called a piano.
3. The high strings curve around so that they overlap, that means the connections to the hammers will need to be in 2 layers, I'm sure that would be possible to build, but good luck getting a consistent sound.
4. Some of the strings are at a 90 degree angle from others, that's probably going to setup some strange 3rd order harmonics when the notes are played at the same time.
5. The position of the keyboard player is shielded from the strings/sound, so it may be hard to hear what they are playing if other instruments are accompanying. Given all the above that may be a blessing.
I could see this being a great prop in a sci-fi movie but you'd also need a real piano to dub in the sound.
posted by Lanark at 2:02 AM on August 6, 2023 [40 favorites]
1. Some of the strings are in a section which sits on the floor, that's going to dampen the sound compared to other sections.
2. The hammers hit the middle of the string not the end, so if the same note is hit repeatedly it will meet the string at the point of greatest vibration. That is going to change the sound so much I'm not sure the instrument should still be called a piano.
3. The high strings curve around so that they overlap, that means the connections to the hammers will need to be in 2 layers, I'm sure that would be possible to build, but good luck getting a consistent sound.
4. Some of the strings are at a 90 degree angle from others, that's probably going to setup some strange 3rd order harmonics when the notes are played at the same time.
5. The position of the keyboard player is shielded from the strings/sound, so it may be hard to hear what they are playing if other instruments are accompanying. Given all the above that may be a blessing.
I could see this being a great prop in a sci-fi movie but you'd also need a real piano to dub in the sound.
posted by Lanark at 2:02 AM on August 6, 2023 [40 favorites]
I love this post because pianos. The piano-making knowledge in the previous comment is what I'm here for. I want to love conch piano (The Nautilute? House Ravenclawchord?)
The design idea itself does feel a bit like no piano makers were involved, with regards to the physics. However my biggest issue is if you use solenoids and some sort of keybed what you have isn't a piano. Realistic hammer action keys, fit for concert standard, aren't a solved problem which is why you don't see digital grands in concert halls.
posted by yoHighness at 2:35 AM on August 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
The design idea itself does feel a bit like no piano makers were involved, with regards to the physics. However my biggest issue is if you use solenoids and some sort of keybed what you have isn't a piano. Realistic hammer action keys, fit for concert standard, aren't a solved problem which is why you don't see digital grands in concert halls.
posted by yoHighness at 2:35 AM on August 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
These components sit on the center spine and are activated by solenoids
I missed this part, so now you will also need 88 cables connecting everything up, and they need to be strung up in a way that doesn't vibrate. (or maybe they have 88 bluetooth connections and a battery in each hammer).
posted by Lanark at 2:56 AM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I missed this part, so now you will also need 88 cables connecting everything up, and they need to be strung up in a way that doesn't vibrate. (or maybe they have 88 bluetooth connections and a battery in each hammer).
posted by Lanark at 2:56 AM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Several of the setbacks Lanark mentions also seem to me to be applicable or relatable to spinet pianos. These are not really celebrated members of the genus, but they haven't been reclassified as a different instrument altogether. I expect that this thing would squeak in as well.
The wiring thing is not such a big issue, I don't think --- I assume that the Disklaviers must do something similar, as well as various actuated pianos that are still experimental instruments for the most part. Here's one that's local to me, for example. The people who make those kinds of instruments are usually also musicians and care about random rattles.
posted by stepleton at 3:04 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
The wiring thing is not such a big issue, I don't think --- I assume that the Disklaviers must do something similar, as well as various actuated pianos that are still experimental instruments for the most part. Here's one that's local to me, for example. The people who make those kinds of instruments are usually also musicians and care about random rattles.
posted by stepleton at 3:04 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
To step back from the technical merits a bit, I'm pro-funky piano.
If you look at old timey clavichords and virginals and what not, you'll see all kinds of decoration and paintings and other ornaments, along with various sizes and shapes to suit the user's needs and preferences. Maybe it would be good to have more of that variety today? It could cause more people and places to make room for a piano, if it comes in more forms than today's relatively formal, uptight style.
These days tiny pastoral landscape paintings don't really attract the eye like bold industrial design, so I would expect that to be one of the main ways that pianos differ.
posted by stepleton at 3:17 AM on August 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
If you look at old timey clavichords and virginals and what not, you'll see all kinds of decoration and paintings and other ornaments, along with various sizes and shapes to suit the user's needs and preferences. Maybe it would be good to have more of that variety today? It could cause more people and places to make room for a piano, if it comes in more forms than today's relatively formal, uptight style.
These days tiny pastoral landscape paintings don't really attract the eye like bold industrial design, so I would expect that to be one of the main ways that pianos differ.
posted by stepleton at 3:17 AM on August 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don’t have expertise in pianos, but what I do have expertise in is dust. You can tell from my place. This looks like a dust magnet in ways that would have to wreak havoc with it. Of course it could stay under a custom cover, but then half the decorative purpose is spoiled—pianos are furniture as well as instruments.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:00 AM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 5:00 AM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Related: Note by Note: The Making of a Steinway Piano
posted by hypnogogue at 5:23 AM on August 6, 2023
posted by hypnogogue at 5:23 AM on August 6, 2023
This is a fun design exercise and an interesting FPP, but the pretentious presentation in the article chafes. Claiming that you've transformed, improved and revolutionized a traditional instrument before you've made and tested a single example is waaay over the top. The designer literally claims that it will "have a positive impact on society." Wow.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 5:38 AM on August 6, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 5:38 AM on August 6, 2023 [16 favorites]
The part that made me roll my eyes was this:
posted by Johnny Assay at 5:41 AM on August 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
For added aesthetic, there is an optional subtle light behind each string that illuminates as the hammers strike. This places clear visuals on the function of the instrument, making the overall sensory experience grander with sound amplified by sight.Maybe I'm just a pearl-clutching hidebound reactionary but this sounds pretty tacky to me.
posted by Johnny Assay at 5:41 AM on August 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
The fact that they don't have any video of it being played is evidence that it sounds like crap. The breathless writeup is a display that they have more mastery of bullshitting than they do of acoustic design.
posted by Jon_Evil at 5:53 AM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 5:53 AM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
“Show me a piano designed by someone who doesn’t understand pianos.”
posted by mcwetboy at 6:04 AM on August 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by mcwetboy at 6:04 AM on August 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Did anyone look at Whipsaw's other products? Sauna, medical equipment, wholesale marketplace website, washing machine... is that typical for a design company?
posted by Baethan at 6:08 AM on August 6, 2023
posted by Baethan at 6:08 AM on August 6, 2023
Claiming that you've transformed, improved and revolutionized a traditional instrument before you've made and tested a single example is waaay over the top.
This is the flagship distinction between designers and graphic artists who've convinced themselves they're designers, and it is absolutely endemic in tech.
posted by mhoye at 6:23 AM on August 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
This is the flagship distinction between designers and graphic artists who've convinced themselves they're designers, and it is absolutely endemic in tech.
posted by mhoye at 6:23 AM on August 6, 2023 [13 favorites]
Browsing youtube for more strange pianos, it seems some car manufacturers had a go too (they're naff , but the actual design process with acousticians involved is shown).
Quartertone piano (just found that)
Nahre Sol shows a few unusual designer grand pianos
posted by yoHighness at 6:28 AM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Quartertone piano (just found that)
Nahre Sol shows a few unusual designer grand pianos
posted by yoHighness at 6:28 AM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Baethan, yes, this is typical for a design company. While there's plenty of specialization in the industry, and firms that target specific niches, in general, whatever walks through the door with budget will get worked on. The design company's job is to quickly become an expert in the subject matter (lol. Cackle. Guffaw).
This piano appears to be vaporware, but I wouldn't be surprised if the tech for remote actuated hammers has actually improved enough in the past decade that at least that part of it would be feasible.
posted by jellywerker at 6:39 AM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
This piano appears to be vaporware, but I wouldn't be surprised if the tech for remote actuated hammers has actually improved enough in the past decade that at least that part of it would be feasible.
posted by jellywerker at 6:39 AM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ultimately, the vulnerability of the exposed instrument and performer bridges the visual disconnect from the piano’s past.we might have to work on that a bit more
posted by flabdablet at 6:40 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
My favourite weird contemporary piano is the model 450i, which is an upright piano built to the dimensions of a concert grand. It has a little balcony for you to sit on so you can play it, as it’s two storeys high. The world of high-end bespoke piano is fantastically weird, as regular high-end pianos are like six figures.
posted by The River Ivel at 6:40 AM on August 6, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 6:40 AM on August 6, 2023 [17 favorites]
Klavins pianos are so weird in a good way. They’re like the Porche of pianos - make a few fundamental design decisions and then follow these stubbornly to the very end. The 450i is the self-aware apotheosis but their more “practical” examples are pretty dang cool too. Definitely a purchase if I had evil person money.
posted by q*ben at 6:52 AM on August 6, 2023
posted by q*ben at 6:52 AM on August 6, 2023
6. Although the longest strings are horizontal, at least some of the strings in this design have to sit vertically. Looking at this diagram of piano sizes the smallest equivalent dimension on the smallest baby grand is 4' 6", subtract a generous 10" for the keyboard and you are left with needing a height of 3.8 feet which is a good 5 inches taller than a standard piano. So the player will either have to stand or be perched on top of a bar stool with their feet not touching the ground.
The piano design change that should get more attention is making keyboards to fit people with smaller hands.
posted by Lanark at 7:00 AM on August 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
The piano design change that should get more attention is making keyboards to fit people with smaller hands.
posted by Lanark at 7:00 AM on August 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
Did anyone look at Whipsaw's other products? Sauna, medical equipment, wholesale marketplace website, washing machine... is that typical for a design company?
Yeah, it is. At least for a certain tier of design firm it is. More “design studio” than “design company.”
posted by Thorzdad at 7:20 AM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, it is. At least for a certain tier of design firm it is. More “design studio” than “design company.”
posted by Thorzdad at 7:20 AM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Where's the flat, thin, flexible soundboard, which amplifies the vibrations of the strings and projects the sound out into the room? (The strings by themselves don't make much sound). This design is beautiful to look at but doesn't seem to make sense in terms of physical acoustics.
posted by crazy_yeti at 7:26 AM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by crazy_yeti at 7:26 AM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
command F "soundboard" hits = 0 (soundboard for the non-pianistically-inclined.)
I don't think this designer has actually encountered a real piano in real life, much less bothered to read a couple of Wikipedia articles on the thing.
Most acoustic instruments are self-explanatory in the sense that audiences can see the action being performed to produce sound.
Unless they can see wood vibrating, no they can't.
The strings are arranged based on pitch
They better be.
without the hindrance of reflecting sound via a piano lid
Not a hindrance. Intentional design.
releasing through its floor.
Again, soundboard.
sitting at around 500 pounds.
Designer will be astounded to learn that 500 pound anything is really difficult to move without wheels. Which pianos have.
easier to move
See above re: wheels. Which I don't see anywhere on this thing.
the lacquered, hardwood frame can be removed for proper tuning,
On a grand piano you slide a little wooden shelf to get to the tuning pins. On an upright there's a hinged lid on top or if you want to get really wild you can remove the entire front panel by releasing a couple of catches and lifting it. There's no taking a frame apart.
light behind each string that illuminates as the hammers strike
So, it's not uncommon for budget PA speakers to use an incandescent light bulb as a bit of power protection. If you feed too much signal to the speaker the bulb will dissipate some of the power as light and heat before the signal gets to the actual speaker component. Usually these bulbs are hidden somewhere deep within the wooden box of the speaker and are thus unseen. But every so often I've run into speakers where the light is visible, and when the speaker box is painted white you get these random flashes where like the whole speaker box goes "BLING" for a hot second.
The visual effect is . . . . disconcerting at best.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:37 AM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I don't think this designer has actually encountered a real piano in real life, much less bothered to read a couple of Wikipedia articles on the thing.
Most acoustic instruments are self-explanatory in the sense that audiences can see the action being performed to produce sound.
Unless they can see wood vibrating, no they can't.
The strings are arranged based on pitch
They better be.
without the hindrance of reflecting sound via a piano lid
Not a hindrance. Intentional design.
releasing through its floor.
Again, soundboard.
sitting at around 500 pounds.
Designer will be astounded to learn that 500 pound anything is really difficult to move without wheels. Which pianos have.
easier to move
See above re: wheels. Which I don't see anywhere on this thing.
the lacquered, hardwood frame can be removed for proper tuning,
On a grand piano you slide a little wooden shelf to get to the tuning pins. On an upright there's a hinged lid on top or if you want to get really wild you can remove the entire front panel by releasing a couple of catches and lifting it. There's no taking a frame apart.
light behind each string that illuminates as the hammers strike
So, it's not uncommon for budget PA speakers to use an incandescent light bulb as a bit of power protection. If you feed too much signal to the speaker the bulb will dissipate some of the power as light and heat before the signal gets to the actual speaker component. Usually these bulbs are hidden somewhere deep within the wooden box of the speaker and are thus unseen. But every so often I've run into speakers where the light is visible, and when the speaker box is painted white you get these random flashes where like the whole speaker box goes "BLING" for a hot second.
The visual effect is . . . . disconcerting at best.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:37 AM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I like the very long Alexander Piano.
Wow! It’s basically a piano where the low notes are a blaster beam
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:10 AM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Wow! It’s basically a piano where the low notes are a blaster beam
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:10 AM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
All the stupid design decisions they've made, and all they'd have to say is "we'll offer it in different key widths" and some people would throw their life savings at them.
posted by tigrrrlily at 8:23 AM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by tigrrrlily at 8:23 AM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I feel like the person who designed this has never actually seen what a the action mechanism on a real piano looks like or given any thought to how the action will curve around while still being reliably connected to a flat keyboard. Also the strings are too short, and there appears to be no soundboard to resonate? it will be a very quiet piano.
posted by dis_integration at 8:58 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by dis_integration at 8:58 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's pretty, and the problems I keep reading about are not necessarily dealbreakers. For instance, some of you may have heard of the harp, which is another open stringed instrument (though it famously has structural issues) or the electricguitar which uses pickups in place of a sound box (yes, yes, acoustic/electric hybrids do still have a soundbox). The main problem I see, is unless this is some sort of custom handmade for the wealthy, pianos are currently a drug on the market. Everyone I know recently who's tried to sell a piano, has had to either give it away for free or pay to have it taken away. Having said, there's no end of wealthy idiots who'd throw their money at someone for one of these.
My apologies for the one sad link for harp structural issues, I had heard that harps were short lived due to the string tension slowly destroying the frame. There are some troubleshooting pages that mention this but they seem to be mostly due to poor maintenance.
posted by evilDoug at 9:11 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
My apologies for the one sad link for harp structural issues, I had heard that harps were short lived due to the string tension slowly destroying the frame. There are some troubleshooting pages that mention this but they seem to be mostly due to poor maintenance.
posted by evilDoug at 9:11 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Wow! It’s basically a piano where the low notes are a blaster beam
How have I missed the existence of an object that is so perfectly in the middle of a venn diagram of a bunch of my interests? It made the space depth charge sounds from Episode 2! The guy made a huge influential career by building a weird Junkyard Wars-looking instrument! That rules.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:18 AM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
How have I missed the existence of an object that is so perfectly in the middle of a venn diagram of a bunch of my interests? It made the space depth charge sounds from Episode 2! The guy made a huge influential career by building a weird Junkyard Wars-looking instrument! That rules.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:18 AM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
The fact that they don't have any video of it being played is evidence that it sounds like crap.
Or evidence it hasn’t actually been built.
posted by TedW at 11:03 AM on August 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Or evidence it hasn’t actually been built.
posted by TedW at 11:03 AM on August 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
I doubt this instrument actually exists other than maybe in a non functional mockup. I'd be surprised if any actual usable blueprints even exist.
It seems to me this design's biggest solution is in aesthetics. It would make a stunning piece of furniture in some billionaire's salon. But the functional problems with piano have long since been solved for the most part, and I'm very skeptical that this design offers significant solutions. They're just very mature technology, and the biggest challenge the industry faces is probably that of keeping down costs rather than improve any actual function.
posted by 2N2222 at 12:39 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
It seems to me this design's biggest solution is in aesthetics. It would make a stunning piece of furniture in some billionaire's salon. But the functional problems with piano have long since been solved for the most part, and I'm very skeptical that this design offers significant solutions. They're just very mature technology, and the biggest challenge the industry faces is probably that of keeping down costs rather than improve any actual function.
posted by 2N2222 at 12:39 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'd be a lot more impressed if this wasn't just a 3D render of a thing that could theoretically exist. But then, design studios like these aren't much concerned about practical matters like actually manufacturing the concepts they come up with. I suspect that the designer didn't involve any actual piano-makers in the process, so there's certainly no guarantee that it'd even work let alone sound good.
posted by Aleyn at 1:02 PM on August 6, 2023
posted by Aleyn at 1:02 PM on August 6, 2023
They're just very mature technology, and the biggest challenge the industry faces is probably that of keeping down costs rather than improve any actual function.
Or just maybe, the musical instrument world has some extremely conservative areas and pianos are one of them.
I think people are judging a little too much given that this isn't an actual piano that was built. Maybe it sounds really interesting, if not stolidly traditional. Or maybe it's awful. But we don't know until it's built (or at least, exhaustively simulated using proven techniques).
posted by Foosnark at 1:12 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Or just maybe, the musical instrument world has some extremely conservative areas and pianos are one of them.
I think people are judging a little too much given that this isn't an actual piano that was built. Maybe it sounds really interesting, if not stolidly traditional. Or maybe it's awful. But we don't know until it's built (or at least, exhaustively simulated using proven techniques).
posted by Foosnark at 1:12 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Do piano frames need to be very heavy, or just very stiff? Carbon fiber pianos must be a thing, how do they sound? CF can have good acoustic properties, if done right.
posted by ryanrs at 1:30 PM on August 6, 2023
posted by ryanrs at 1:30 PM on August 6, 2023
No direct mechanical connection between the keys and the hammers? That’s a no from me, dawg.
posted by slkinsey at 2:08 PM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by slkinsey at 2:08 PM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Lack of linkages should demote it to 'piano-shaped object', but clearly that's not right, either.
posted by ryanrs at 2:39 PM on August 6, 2023
posted by ryanrs at 2:39 PM on August 6, 2023
Or just maybe, the musical instrument world has some extremely conservative areas and pianos are one of them.
There's a certain amount of conservatism, no doubt. But not enough to talk money. After all, digital pianos enjoy wide adoption.
The odd thing about this design is that the problems they seem eager to address are problems that are either already well solved, or not really problems at all. Perhaps an electromechanical action as described could be great leap forward in piano design. But it seems to address a desire few people have. And features such as "frontward projection" are hardly a new innovation. Even the claim that it's more convenient to fit in the home seems dubious. More convenient than maybe a grand. But full sized pianos already come in form factors that are much more compact than this rendering depicts. As shown, it's almost twice as wide as a normal upright.
But yes, maybe it will sound remarkable. I'm willing to give it a listen. When it's produced.
posted by 2N2222 at 2:46 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
There's a certain amount of conservatism, no doubt. But not enough to talk money. After all, digital pianos enjoy wide adoption.
The odd thing about this design is that the problems they seem eager to address are problems that are either already well solved, or not really problems at all. Perhaps an electromechanical action as described could be great leap forward in piano design. But it seems to address a desire few people have. And features such as "frontward projection" are hardly a new innovation. Even the claim that it's more convenient to fit in the home seems dubious. More convenient than maybe a grand. But full sized pianos already come in form factors that are much more compact than this rendering depicts. As shown, it's almost twice as wide as a normal upright.
But yes, maybe it will sound remarkable. I'm willing to give it a listen. When it's produced.
posted by 2N2222 at 2:46 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Do piano frames need to be very heavy, or just very stiff? Carbon fiber pianos must be a thing, how do they sound? CF can have good acoustic properties, if done right.
I wonder. Certainly, the ability to resist string tension is extremely important. Maybe inertia is also considered an important feature, and maybe bulk mass factors into that? But it's clearly a tradeoff issue. The aforementioned Keybird seems to get along without too much mass. But it's also meant to be a tradeoff instrument with several compromises.
All the stupid design decisions they've made, and all they'd have to say is "we'll offer it in different key widths" and some people would throw their life savings at them.
Electrically actuated hammers would make it far easier to offer narrow keys, isomorphic key arrangements, etc. But, yeah, I don't think the designers are aware of such things.
posted by 2N2222 at 3:23 PM on August 6, 2023
I wonder. Certainly, the ability to resist string tension is extremely important. Maybe inertia is also considered an important feature, and maybe bulk mass factors into that? But it's clearly a tradeoff issue. The aforementioned Keybird seems to get along without too much mass. But it's also meant to be a tradeoff instrument with several compromises.
All the stupid design decisions they've made, and all they'd have to say is "we'll offer it in different key widths" and some people would throw their life savings at them.
Electrically actuated hammers would make it far easier to offer narrow keys, isomorphic key arrangements, etc. But, yeah, I don't think the designers are aware of such things.
posted by 2N2222 at 3:23 PM on August 6, 2023
I really like the look of this design, but it is just a design, not an actual piano (and almost certainly never will be). I am very dubious about the suggestion of electrically actuated hammers, given the difficulty car manufacturers have with getting drive-by-wire systems not to be so laggy that there is a whole range of products to convert such systems back to cables and levers.
posted by dg at 4:25 PM on August 6, 2023
posted by dg at 4:25 PM on August 6, 2023
Toward the end of the Nahre Sol video yoHighness posted, she mentions another video with piano technician Damon Groves. I managed to find it, and it's really interesting.
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:34 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:34 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
The piano design change that should get more attention is making keyboards to fit people with smaller hands.
Previously
posted by BWA at 4:38 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Previously
posted by BWA at 4:38 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Perhaps an electromechanical action as described could be great leap forward in piano design.
A short talk with an organist about tracker action versus electro-pneumatic action would suggest this is highly unlikely to be the case.
posted by slkinsey at 6:47 PM on August 6, 2023
A short talk with an organist about tracker action versus electro-pneumatic action would suggest this is highly unlikely to be the case.
posted by slkinsey at 6:47 PM on August 6, 2023
One thing that struck me was how one of the goals was to expose the inner workings of the piano so audiences could see them ("exposing the magic of the piano’s timeless sound"). Sure, that is kind of cool, but I think it would only be interesting for a short while. When watching a live performance, my attention is usually on the interface where the musician meets the instrument; usually the fingers. That's where, to me at least, the magic of music happens: where the performer creates art through technique and expression.
posted by destrius at 9:06 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by destrius at 9:06 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Quartertone piano schemes really irk me. I love the idea of having tempered access to these tones, and some of the quartertone design attempts have better playability aspects than others, but...
one of the largely unsung strokes of genius in the design of the piano keyboard (or whichever predecessor informed it) is the fact that all twelve tones of the octave are equally distributed in the top two-toned half of the keys' levers, while seven tones of the key of C are also equally distributed in the lower monochrome end.
I would relish anyone's deconstruction of the formulas needed to properly build this dual spectrum of levers. It boggles my mind far deeper than rationalizing the common multiple of 7 and 12...
More of a challenge than dropping another key width in the middle space, or adding an offset row of similar keys. Or adding a sharper sharp lever on the margin of a black key, or any of the other quartertone schemes I've seen....
posted by in_lieu_of_fiction at 3:56 AM on August 7, 2023
one of the largely unsung strokes of genius in the design of the piano keyboard (or whichever predecessor informed it) is the fact that all twelve tones of the octave are equally distributed in the top two-toned half of the keys' levers, while seven tones of the key of C are also equally distributed in the lower monochrome end.
I would relish anyone's deconstruction of the formulas needed to properly build this dual spectrum of levers. It boggles my mind far deeper than rationalizing the common multiple of 7 and 12...
More of a challenge than dropping another key width in the middle space, or adding an offset row of similar keys. Or adding a sharper sharp lever on the margin of a black key, or any of the other quartertone schemes I've seen....
posted by in_lieu_of_fiction at 3:56 AM on August 7, 2023
Gonna add to the snark... could tell in a few seconds this was a design publication, so much excitement over the look, the "inovation", nothing about how it sounds, no link to hear/see it being played.
For all the pretentiousness of designers about how what they do is improve form & function, it's always form and most of the time function suffers.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:38 AM on August 7, 2023
For all the pretentiousness of designers about how what they do is improve form & function, it's always form and most of the time function suffers.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:38 AM on August 7, 2023
Why doesn’t anybody ever ask Metafilter first before they do something?
posted by BlunderingArtist at 7:49 AM on August 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by BlunderingArtist at 7:49 AM on August 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
It reminds me a bit of a square piano. I ran into one of those once, thought it was cool, played it and was highly unimpressed with the sound.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:00 AM on August 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:00 AM on August 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
When the new wave of pianos came in the early- and mid-1800s (what people think of when they see an 88-key Steinway grand), I think it was the contemporaneous wave of composers like Chopin and Liszt who took advantage of its technical improvements over previous incarnations, who in doing so helped make it the standard. My guess is that whatever replaces the grand piano will need someone making music on it that impacts culture in a similar way. I don't think a render of an electric keyboard will do that, though this is quite pretty to look at.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:42 AM on August 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:42 AM on August 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
nothing about how it sounds, no link to hear/see it being played
Agreed, the only reason to try and improve the design of the piano would be to either expand its sound palette and/or create better ease of use technically. An instrument only looks cool after the fact, in music it only matters how things sound and play.
My guess is that whatever replaces the grand piano will need someone making music on it that impacts culture in a similar way
That already happened and it was the synthesizer.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:09 AM on August 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
Agreed, the only reason to try and improve the design of the piano would be to either expand its sound palette and/or create better ease of use technically. An instrument only looks cool after the fact, in music it only matters how things sound and play.
My guess is that whatever replaces the grand piano will need someone making music on it that impacts culture in a similar way
That already happened and it was the synthesizer.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:09 AM on August 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
I think this lovingly inspired non-instrument would make its greatest worldly impact, saying the most in so many ways, if a prototype were actually built, and then displayed encased in a transparent vat of urine.
posted by Droll Lord at 4:46 PM on August 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Droll Lord at 4:46 PM on August 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
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